"P-Valley" is the acclaimed Starz original series about the world of professional pole dancing. It follows the lives of the dancers, as well as the club's owner, Uncle Clifford. I spoke with Nicco Annan, who stars as Uncle Clifford, about the new season.
Topics Covered
The training the actor and dancers undergo.
“P-Valley” tells a universal story of hustlers, dreamers, survivors, and strivers
The series is created, and executive produced by Pulitzer Prize winner Katori Hall
Season two takes audiences deeper into the lives of the Pynk’s beloved characters as darkness descends upon Chucalissa.
“P-Valley” was filmed on location in Atlanta, GA, but is set against the Mississippi Delta.
More on P- Valley
One of the most acclaimed series on the STARZ network, the award-winning series “P-Valley” is back for Season 2. "P-Valley" is an engrossing drama of family, friendship, and survival. This season, the richly crafted characters deal with sacrifice, ethical dilemmas, identity, family, love, trust and betrayal, while also facing the aftermath of their decisions from season one.
More on Nicco Annan
Nathaniel Nicco-Annan was born on an Army base in Germany to a black Southern woman born and a West African man from Ghana. Nicco, as he is affectionately known, was raised in Detroit, Michigan. Best described as talented and entertaining, Nicco is an impassioned spirit, who had a love for acting and dance from his earliest years. Ultimately that passion led him from Detroit to New York, where he trained under the iconic Director, Israel Hicks, at SUNY Purchase College Conservatory of Acting, and earned his BFA. Shortly after that, Nicco accepted an opportunity to be a Choreographer in Residence at the Yale School of Drama. Nicco’s razor-sharp wit and emotional accessibility have driven a varied career in both Legit and Musical Theatre, as well as in Film and Television. His brand defies all of the traditional limitations. As a gay man he grew up in between the worlds of the “grand fantastical” gay scene and the rigid realities of being a big black man in America and the stigma that both can carry.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My guess is Nathaniel Nicole and was born in on
Army base in Germany to a Black Southern woman born
in the West African man from Ghana. Nicole, as he's
affectionately known, was raised in Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City.
He just mystifies the myths around Southern black men, black
gay men, and those identifying in the non binary space
(00:22):
and if they live four lives that they can lead.
Nico originated the role of Uncle Clifford in the popular
show P Valley and played that characters is twenty eleven
to date. He is the only character that played the
Clifford as well as on the television show P Valley
the Stars Network. The award winning series P Valley is
back for season two. P Valley. If you don't know,
(00:42):
It's an engrossing drama, family, friendship, and survival. Every Sunday
you can catch it temp M, Eastern and Pacific. This
season is richly crafted. Characters deal with sacrifice, ethical dilemmas, identity, family, love, trust,
and betrayal while also facing the aftermass of the decision
from season one. Please work for the Money Making Conversation Masterclass.
(01:03):
For the first time, Nico man, how are you doing,
my friend, I'm great, I'm great. Thank you so much
for having me here. First of all, my first time.
Hopefully won't be the last. Oh no, no, no, no,
I mean mad if you're the last, because you're you're
a star. You are a star. You are an individual, brother,
you know your an individual. That Let's let's talk about
(01:24):
the character because you know in your bio they said
you've been playing this character or character like this since
eleven So that means that character did not originate on
the television series. I've seen you've been playing it before.
That give us some background history on your character and
how did they get to that point, because, like I said,
you know, because you have some great you know, designs
and your beard and all that stuff that you're not
(01:45):
wearing right now. I have a beard. I've been right
there the movie. They cut my beard in a certain way.
And so let's let's talk about that character development because
I'm sure it was inspired a lot by your own imagination. Um,
it was inspired a lot by my own and my nation,
but primarily from Coulatori halls imagination. Uh. Coulatori Hall is
our showrunner and the creator of this universe that she
(02:09):
has here, um, but here in p Valley. This actually
started a little earlier than two thousand and eleven. Back
in two thousand and nine. Um, yeah, I was living
in New York at the time. I was in after
I was choreographing and directing, so I was doing all
three and I was in between gigs and I received
(02:31):
the invitation to go to Quatori's house. Uh, she was
having a salon series. She used to have this thing
called black Mondays because in the theater it's dark on Mondays.
So they in theater language we say it's black um,
because all the lights are off. And so what happened
was she was she had a writing fellowship at the
(02:52):
Lark Theater Company. It's an off Broadway house in New York.
And through that salon series, it was a group of writers, actors,
musicians that just got together to read or talk about
their ideas and new material that they had and a
collective so to speak, kind of like James Baldwin's or
Herston you know, the Renaissance group back in the day. Um,
(03:15):
they were creating their own version of that. And essentially
what happened there was a lot of networking that was
happening across the platform among all these different black artists.
It was not necessarily somewhat none of us at the
time were on Broadway or had big major motion picture deals.
And literally was about conversation and who is it that
(03:37):
has points of access and just different ideas. So one
of her co writers in the fellowship, Dominique Marisso who
they both since have been like Tony Award nominations and
all these accreditations and awards decorating them. Um. She said,
I'm looking for a person that kind of houses this
(03:58):
uh feminine energy yet a massline energy, hap this idea
for this character. And it was all these things. And
when I got there, there were five pages. Man, there
were five pages, and on those fide pages only two
of them Uncle Clifford was in. There was two different
scenes and it was the description of Uncle Clifford Um
emerging from the shadows of the club, eyelashes like butterfly
(04:22):
wings and nails like ego talents, Uncle Clifford Um. And
so that's how it all started. Now, how tall are
you because you're you're you're not a small six to six.
I'm definitely a man of size. I'm six too. You
know what I'm saying. As they say corn brand fish,
(04:44):
they just said Nicole. You know, because your your body
was introduced in the pilot. You know what I'm saying,
We use saw that real look and everything so so nudity.
That was nudity. How did you feel with a comfortable moment?
For you? You have to prepare for that moment. Talking
about that in the pilot scene, I think you always
have to prepare for any person that you know. You
know that as an artist in general, where you are
(05:06):
using your body to tell the story, you're using your
soul to tell the story. Um, I know as an
artist I am especially I'm gonna tell you this, being
a man of a certain age, I think in my
twenties it was it could have maybe messed me up
a little bit more because it was more into the
constraints of what people sought I should be. But I'm
(05:28):
a grown man now, you know. The thirties, you know
they taught me how to really be who I am
and to have a level of self acceptance. But in
regards to the show and how the nudity works, it's
a The show takes place in this club called Pink
and it's a strip club, and so we're talking about
these people who are marginalized and definitely have an idea.
(05:52):
They know what they're doing, and they're working in the
sex work industry, and it just made sense that in
this industry there's a level of awareness and comfortability of
being in one's body and now stepping outside of that
as the actor and the artist, I had to ask
myself the question and I proposed it to the producers
(06:14):
in my camera test for the series, the TV series.
It was more so they said how do I feel
about it? And my question to them was when it
was the last time that you saw a full figured body,
male or female, dark skinned being made love to on
the screen. And I felt that that image of someone
(06:38):
being full, you know, and being shown love, being made
love to, being loving, I thought that that was just
a revolutionary visual. So I was definitely open to it,
you know, and there's a process to get to it.
But yeah, yeah, like you say, I always tell people
will come on my show and also the people at
(07:00):
your listening to show. That's a process, you know, this
is never you know, you have to meet with your
other cast members and set boundaries about what makes you
feel comfortable and makes that other person feel comfortable so
it can feel natural. I'm sure this happened with you
on this series as well. Correct. Absolutely, we definitely have
intimacy coaches, and the intimacy coach is the interact in
(07:21):
the media, in the middle the media that works between
different actors, the directors, what the script demands and what
how do we get there? It's really great. So I'm
talking to Nicole, I'm calling my friend, you know, Uncle Clifford.
Uncle Clifford, because it's somebody who comes into your life
super confident, but also it's surrounded by a world of people,
(07:46):
not just women, but the world of people, customers who
really don't don't know what They live in a fantasy world,
and sometimes that fantasy world can be cruel. But I
would tell you this what I really like about this show,
p Valley. You see the word strip, you see the
word black, you just think he goes see a ton
of nudity, And that is not the case. It's the story,
is the characters, is the is the is the lateness.
(08:10):
The lines talk about that because that's what people initially think, correct,
and the stereotype is when you just black club, chip club,
you nudity New Digies, and that is not the case.
I in fact, the nudity when I watched the series,
it comes so casual that I don't notice it because
I'm so engaged into the character's storyline. And that's really
(08:32):
a blessing correct nical, It's it's more than a blessing.
I felt like it's a it's a necessity in the
way that we had to tell the story. This is
definitely I think that Tory really wanted to make sure
that there is definitely the fact that women and female
bodies have really been looked at and used in a
certain way in cinema specifically and over sexualized. But here
(08:56):
in this world, I think that there's something that we
call the female days, and that's something that's always asked
of people that the different directors that are coming on
the show. That's something that we think about as a
cast um and the female gays. That does not only
pertain to the female body. But how is it that
you can see the world without objectification? Um. I think
(09:18):
that through that space you you get to see the
athleticism of these poll d answers and to see what
it takes to physically do the things that they are
doing to haul themselves up this pole, to to to
fly around, to walk on the ceiling and on clouds.
That's actually the big metaphor for the show. The poll,
(09:39):
the poll. There's a line that always says, sometimes rising
feels like falling, and falling feels like rising. So the
poll is actually meant to be the metaphor for life
and in a way that we as black people, especially
Black Southerners, have existed and made it through the day.
We'll be right back with more Money Making Conversations math
(10:00):
her Class with Rashan McDonald. Now, let's return to Money
Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashan McDonald. Nicole, he brought up
the pole. Now, yeah, I'm chasing that, Keyshaw, do don't
(10:20):
get too don't don't don't move too fast because I
gotta get to them outstanding credit Shall and Mercedes. Okay,
but let's first go with Keyshaw. My my, my, my my.
I'm just talking from an athletic stample. I'm not talking
from a sexual stample. What I'm seeing that she does
on that pole, it has to be moth dropping to
(10:40):
the cast and where did they find her and what
is her background as an athlete because she has that
gymnastics in her background. Correct, Why do you say that?
Because of the fact she's so comfortable on the pole,
She's flexible, she's able to she's able to manipulate it because,
like I said, I'm not doing it justice. You have
to watch the series to see what she's able to do.
(11:03):
As far as from a from a Ballaridas standpoint, she
is really poet poetic on that pole, you know where
where Mercedes is a force. Not saying she's not sexual,
but she's a force. It's like watching a running back
and a wire receiver. A wire receiver flows, you know
what I'm saying. That's key, Sean. A running back can
(11:24):
flow to but they can hit that whole and if
you hit him, then you can knock you off. That's Mercedes,
that's rights say so and so so. So you're gonna
give me, Nicole, I know you're gonna give me. I
watched this show. Now, I'm not trying to get you
know what's what? What's I love that you are actually
saying that you you use the football metaphors and comparisons,
and it definitely is accurate all of the dancers. The
(11:46):
thing about it is in the strip club, every dancer
has a different style. Some of the dancers are like talkers,
so like, there's a group of our core dancers and
some of them run what in the club is called
tworktown and talktown are like, you know, the platform stages
that are within the actual club, not on the main
(12:07):
stage with the pole, and some of the girls who
worked there like toy. But then when you talk about
Miss Mississippi, who is played by Shannon Thornton, she is
that character is meant to be like the masterpiece she's
based off. She's called Miss Mississippi because she moves like water,
and her moving like water is rooted in the African
(12:28):
deity of Yema y'all, Yema y'all, being the goddess of
water and of power. You know, Mercedes is that like
you mentioned, Mercedes is played by Brandy Evans. I'm gonna
say Brandy Norwood, Brandy, that's not not my friend, and
sing about my friend. The actors Miss Brandy Evans, and
(12:50):
she her style of ranting is definitely much more athletic.
It's definitely much more physical, and it also lends to
the personality of the dancer. You know, where there's levels
of aggression or where there's a level of fluidity. I
think that dance being a choreographer and Brandy being a dancer,
(13:11):
and Shannon having dance before. None of them dance as uh,
pole dancers, but we're physical dancers. El Rika Johnson who
plays All the Night, she has an extensive background in
martial arts, So there was a level of physicality that
all of us had in our bodies. Then what has
to happen is that we go through a training program.
(13:32):
We go through boot camp. We literally go through boot camp,
just like all of the Marvel characters, just like we
need gonna do an action movie. There's about three to
four months before we actually start filming that everybody goes
to pole classes. You're going to stretch classes. You gotta
get your hips open, you gotta get the back, you
gotta do all the conditioning because it tears up your hands,
your knees, you get a lot of bruising and things
(13:54):
like that. Um and some of the girls are definitely
sharing some of that background on social media that you know,
you guys get to see of what it all takes.
Because the show and the world is kind of meant
to be our own kind of urban, circus ol lay
so to speak. Well, that terms used actually in the
serious as well circuss like and it's used the Mississippi.
(14:16):
Her character Keyshawn's role because she's married to a guy
won't give too much of the story away. But somebody
she shouldn't be She shouldn't I should use were married.
She's she's living with a guy who she has a
child with is not creating a comfortable home life for her,
and that the slides into the who I really love
this guy who plays the role of Diamond. You know,
(14:37):
it's like, you know, not often that. Did you see
a show where the bouncer is sensitive but but dangerous?
You know what I'm saying. You know, you know it's
like I look at Diamond, you know, a diamond. You know,
it's like I feel that I could lose his he
could crush me, but then he can also pick me
up and take me and rescue me at the same
(14:58):
time after he's crushed me, you know, San Nicole, So
talk about those characters. When you see a character like
a Diamonds character and then then being able to develop out,
how how special do you feel in the role from
episode to episode to episode? I feel great. I feel blessed.
I feel really uh. I know that this is a
(15:20):
special term as an artist. UH, as an actor, you
don't always get roles that are so rich and that
are really rooted in a level of truth that represents
your community, that can represent a fraction of your life
that you have been through. I think that this show,
it definitely takes all the different marginalized communities all and
(15:42):
the marginalized within the marginalized. You know. One of the
beautiful things and attractive points to me about this project
is that it wasn't just the women who come in
and out these doors. You talked about the bouncer, our Diamond. UM.
That's the character's name, and Diamond is played by Tyler
left League, and Tyler is able to bring the level
(16:02):
of sensitivity as well as complexity to the role coming
as a former um uh armed officer, the officer in
the of the law but armed forces, UM and what
that did to him being in the war, and that
that postpartum that comes from there. UM. I think that
(16:23):
it's also he's he's a route man, you know, he's
a black man and the Southern man that was raised
in knowing the powers of the earth and very strong
African medicine, um and how that works. And sometimes you
don't get to see that in an urban body, you know,
in a contemporary body, like what does that look like?
(16:46):
You know, it's not some kind of who do hokey magic.
It is literally something that's rooted in tradition, like have
you ever swept your grandmother slept by mistake? You know
what I'm saying. So that thought goes over the show absolutely,
you know, left the person on the floor, person on
the floor, get that, you know exactly those things so
(17:10):
um that those kinds of things in southern Southern uh
isms are woven into this story. And that actually is
a part of where Cotroy started her writing. Her writing
has always used and highlighted Southern culture and all of
its capacities to make it so here here's the thing
that really First of all, I'm a former sitcom writer.
(17:30):
I've done a lot of productions in my life. It's
definitely a show that about to do ultimate compliment. The writing.
The dialogue is incredible. I mean, this is this is
just that writing room are The writers on the show
have created a world that is so authentic that is incredible.
(17:55):
And when I when I when I when I look
like a Little Murder, I'm waiting for his music, you
know it is, so I wait, what is it gonna drop?
Are they gonna drop a CD for this? Are they
a soundtrack for this? Yes? Yes, they literally have. We have.
Uh it's on all platforms right now. It goes episode
by episode, so there every time there's a new music,
(18:17):
it is out there. And it's not only the music
of the character on this show, like Little Murder, but
the music of the Southern artists that we have gotten
to be on the soundtrack. The show literally is meant
to be a platform for the community. I think that's
something that a lot of people were a little shocked by.
But even one of our writers that writes music for
(18:39):
a Little Murder, the artist's name is new Money. Money
is a brother. New Money is a brother. He was
working with us during season one and you know what
he was doing. He was working at the food station.
He was making our omelets. He was making in One
morning we were there getting our breakfast and and you know,
(19:00):
he told I'll found Jay Fons Nicholson, who is the
actor who plays a Little Murder, And he had told
her he was like, yo, man, I know you're playing
a rock on the show. You know, I got some music.
I got some music. So we got some music. Oh
that's what's up. That's because people say that to you
all the time. And so what happened was he handed
him and he sent him some music. He uh, you know,
(19:20):
deemed them the music or whatever our farns wanted. Gonna
listen to the music. He heard it, he played it
for one of our producers, Patrick Patrick Ian Pope, one
of the k EPs. He then for that on Tator
Hall and before you knew it, the song was worked in.
He was brought on board. He's a writer. And here
we are in season two and this brother's life has changed.
(19:41):
So again, just like I got put on with this
project through a level of networking across from knowing Dominique
Marie So someone who I went to high school with.
She then knowing Quatre Hall who someone she's in a
writer's uh program with at the Lark Theater and here
I am, and then Antoine a new money. He was
(20:02):
just working getting a job, just get a job, but
still connected to your passion speaking it. That then turned
into something where he now as a writer and a
musician himself has elevated his platform and it's bringing all
this music to you. You know, it's just it just
it's a testament to how we can move at the community.
We'll be right back with more Money Making Conversations Masterclass
(20:25):
with Rushan McDonald. Now, let's return to Money Making Conversations
Masterclass with Rushan McDonald. I've change the music is fantastic,
that the characters are fantastic. You know when you say Grandmall,
I'll be remiss Nicole, if I don't bring Okay, I'll
re remiss if I don't bring up that character from Ive.
(20:51):
Come on, come on, that's my girl right there. Man.
You know she started on Netflix's Family Union and so
many other series. You know, been came from the University
of Houston. We're back in Houston, Texas, back in the day.
A k A true and true tell us absolutely my friend.
I've used to Texas absolutely so seeing her and seeing
(21:13):
her play this this this uh this role which is
as is Isaiah Washington who was on the first season.
He's from Houston, Texas, Missouri City, which is a suburb
of Houston, Texas. So to talk about that relationship and
her character, working with Loretta divine, I always say, is
simply divine. I had on a vision board to work
(21:38):
with her, and I didn't know what project. You know,
this was just something that I just always loved her
spirit and her zeal um. When I met her it
was even more. It was even more. She is such
a rich treasure, like she's like a national treasure to
(22:00):
to to us as a people. I can't, I can't.
I wanted to just say to me, but I don't
want to hold her to myself. Um, when we work together,
it is awesome. It is so much fun. We always
have a level I tend to do this generally when
I'm playing Uncle Clifford. There's a lot of improv that
happens prior to We always do improv scenes prior to
(22:22):
the scenes to get us in the flow because we
just want to be in the moment um. I am
from Detroit, as you mentioned earlier, but my family is
rooted in the South. You know. Detroit is just nothing
but up south, you know. So so there's a level
(22:44):
of comfortability that we have with one another, and we
really just bounce off and she's able to really just
be there and drop in. Sometimes we actually forget that
you know, we're not really related in real life. You know,
she's amazing. I'm talking to Nicole. He's one of the
stars and an incredibly popular series of stars that were
(23:06):
called The p Valley. You can catch it every Sunday
night at temp m Eastern and Pacific time. I always
try to educate myself. I always try to uplift I
always try to bring information to the show that we
all need to be aware of and also learned. There's
a level of respect we have to have for everybody.
And in your introduction I said, he just did he
demystifies the myth around southern black man, black gay man
(23:29):
and those identified in the non binary space and who
lived four lives us. As we close out this interview,
please explain to us exactly the importance of that and
what are you trying to What am I trying to
say when I say that what I just said, I
think what you are saying to me. How I receive
it is that it is a new day. It is
(23:50):
a time where we regardless of how you identify, I
think at the time when we can see all of us,
when we can acknowledge all of us, when we can
talk about it um, I come from a time from
when it used to be the question of are you
sweet or do you have sugar in your tank? Or
(24:13):
back in the day, even Red Fox, I'm saying for
the Tide, he was like, you know, he's a little
You know, there were things that people always talked about.
And I think that the importance of today is that
we really get to be able to meet each other
human being to human being. The character that I play
Uncle Clifford is non binary, and that's a person who
(24:36):
is equally accepting of all of the things that cannot
be held into a restrictive box. And I think when
you have a question of how someone identifies you, simply
do that you can ask. That is the level of
respect because one of the things I find with play
Uncle Clifford that no matter who you are or where
(24:58):
you come from, you respect her. I think you respect
her because you see her. So you see this body
that is six too, You see this dark skin, these
fool that you see this beard, but you see this
pretty face, and you see these nails and you're like,
what's going on? But you see someone walking with a
level of confidence and clarity even more so, and it's
(25:19):
not even about any kind of bravado. You know what
I mean. I think because when you see a woman
that is walking in her full femininity, I don't think
that she has to be soft or she has to
be in a pants suit to have authority. You know
I'm saying what I mean. And you don't think that
(25:40):
a brother that he has to be wearing a move
to be in touch with his feelings. You can be
who you are in your sweatpants and your athletic socks,
in your business suit, in your move. All of the
things come on, come on, especially for us as a community.
(26:02):
I feel so proud for this moment, honestly, brother, because
there are people who still have high levels of homophobia,
absolutely for sure. But what I do know about this
ton that I'm living in and this project is that
there are people who are willing to make a change,
that are opening their minds, that are opening their that
(26:23):
their minds not only to the l g B t
Q plus community in the full spectrum that we have,
you know, between bisexual, pan sexual trends as well as
pan sexual You know that I like it all. I
think that I think that people have really stigmatized sex
workers and pole dancers for so long and then they
(26:46):
watch this program and they're like, Oh, they're real people
just like me. They're going they're working their way through school,
they're taking care of their children, or they're helping their
their grandparents, their caretakers. You know, you can go to
the dentist and you not know that your dentists used
to be up on the pole or your dentists used
(27:06):
to be done and at a club. We all have
a history, but we also have the poetry right, our
future right. Absolutely. But Nicole, I want to thank you.
First of all, I want to give you a voice.
I wanted to say thank you for allowing me to
be entertained every Sunday. And if I missed it on Sunday,
I see it don't repeat on my streaming. But well,
(27:28):
you know, the thing I like it as we close
this interview out is that your character is not over
the top. It's a character I found very realistic, you know,
and but you just planning who you are, and I
think that's what you just said, just being the person
who you are. It doesn't have to be dressed a
certain way. You can were You're the same person in
a in a in a cool locks you're the same
person and you're short. You're the same person. Address you,
(27:51):
same person, a suit, same person with the blood wig.
You're the same person. It's just being administered in a
different look. And that's the exciting part of this show
is that P Valley is a show with a different look,
is set in a small town, fictional city in Mississippi.
The music is great, the acting is great, the drama
is great. More importantly, you will fall in love with
(28:12):
the characters. If you can't find stars Network find it,
drop that app. But importantly on Sunday Night, dropped it
app so you can see this show. Thank you for
taking the time to come on Money Making Conversation Masterclass.
You are a star, and not only on P Valley,
but you're just a star in real life. Thank you,
my friend, thank you brother. I appreciate it. And if
you want to see her here any episodes of Money
(28:33):
Making Conversation Masterclass please go to money Making Conversation dot com.
I'm Rashan McDonald. I am your host.
My guess is Nathaniel Nicole and was born in on
Army base in Germany to a Black Southern woman born
in the West African man from Ghana. Nicole, as he's
affectionately known, was raised in Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City.
He just mystifies the myths around Southern black men, black
gay men, and those identifying in the non binary space
(00:22):
and if they live four lives that they can lead.
Nico originated the role of Uncle Clifford in the popular
show P Valley and played that characters is twenty eleven
to date. He is the only character that played the
Clifford as well as on the television show P Valley
the Stars Network. The award winning series P Valley is
back for season two. P Valley. If you don't know,
(00:42):
It's an engrossing drama, family, friendship, and survival. Every Sunday
you can catch it temp M, Eastern and Pacific. This
season is richly crafted. Characters deal with sacrifice, ethical dilemmas, identity, family, love, trust,
and betrayal while also facing the aftermass of the decision
from season one. Please work for the Money Making Conversation Masterclass.
(01:03):
For the first time, Nico man, how are you doing,
my friend, I'm great, I'm great. Thank you so much
for having me here. First of all, my first time.
Hopefully won't be the last. Oh no, no, no, no,
I mean mad if you're the last, because you're you're
a star. You are a star. You are an individual, brother,
you know your an individual. That Let's let's talk about
(01:24):
the character because you know in your bio they said
you've been playing this character or character like this since
eleven So that means that character did not originate on
the television series. I've seen you've been playing it before.
That give us some background history on your character and
how did they get to that point, because, like I said,
you know, because you have some great you know, designs
and your beard and all that stuff that you're not
(01:45):
wearing right now. I have a beard. I've been right
there the movie. They cut my beard in a certain way.
And so let's let's talk about that character development because
I'm sure it was inspired a lot by your own imagination. Um,
it was inspired a lot by my own and my nation,
but primarily from Coulatori halls imagination. Uh. Coulatori Hall is
our showrunner and the creator of this universe that she
(02:09):
has here, um, but here in p Valley. This actually
started a little earlier than two thousand and eleven. Back
in two thousand and nine. Um, yeah, I was living
in New York at the time. I was in after
I was choreographing and directing, so I was doing all
three and I was in between gigs and I received
(02:31):
the invitation to go to Quatori's house. Uh, she was
having a salon series. She used to have this thing
called black Mondays because in the theater it's dark on Mondays.
So they in theater language we say it's black um,
because all the lights are off. And so what happened
was she was she had a writing fellowship at the
(02:52):
Lark Theater Company. It's an off Broadway house in New York.
And through that salon series, it was a group of writers, actors,
musicians that just got together to read or talk about
their ideas and new material that they had and a
collective so to speak, kind of like James Baldwin's or
Herston you know, the Renaissance group back in the day. Um,
(03:15):
they were creating their own version of that. And essentially
what happened there was a lot of networking that was
happening across the platform among all these different black artists.
It was not necessarily somewhat none of us at the
time were on Broadway or had big major motion picture deals.
And literally was about conversation and who is it that
(03:37):
has points of access and just different ideas. So one
of her co writers in the fellowship, Dominique Marisso who
they both since have been like Tony Award nominations and
all these accreditations and awards decorating them. Um. She said,
I'm looking for a person that kind of houses this
(03:58):
uh feminine energy yet a massline energy, hap this idea
for this character. And it was all these things. And
when I got there, there were five pages. Man, there
were five pages, and on those fide pages only two
of them Uncle Clifford was in. There was two different
scenes and it was the description of Uncle Clifford Um
emerging from the shadows of the club, eyelashes like butterfly
(04:22):
wings and nails like ego talents, Uncle Clifford Um. And
so that's how it all started. Now, how tall are
you because you're you're you're not a small six to six.
I'm definitely a man of size. I'm six too. You
know what I'm saying. As they say corn brand fish,
(04:44):
they just said Nicole. You know, because your your body
was introduced in the pilot. You know what I'm saying,
We use saw that real look and everything so so nudity.
That was nudity. How did you feel with a comfortable moment?
For you? You have to prepare for that moment. Talking
about that in the pilot scene, I think you always
have to prepare for any person that you know. You
know that as an artist in general, where you are
(05:06):
using your body to tell the story, you're using your
soul to tell the story. Um, I know as an
artist I am especially I'm gonna tell you this, being
a man of a certain age, I think in my
twenties it was it could have maybe messed me up
a little bit more because it was more into the
constraints of what people sought I should be. But I'm
(05:28):
a grown man now, you know. The thirties, you know
they taught me how to really be who I am
and to have a level of self acceptance. But in
regards to the show and how the nudity works, it's
a The show takes place in this club called Pink
and it's a strip club, and so we're talking about
these people who are marginalized and definitely have an idea.
(05:52):
They know what they're doing, and they're working in the
sex work industry, and it just made sense that in
this industry there's a level of awareness and comfortability of
being in one's body and now stepping outside of that
as the actor and the artist, I had to ask
myself the question and I proposed it to the producers
(06:14):
in my camera test for the series, the TV series.
It was more so they said how do I feel
about it? And my question to them was when it
was the last time that you saw a full figured body,
male or female, dark skinned being made love to on
the screen. And I felt that that image of someone
(06:38):
being full, you know, and being shown love, being made
love to, being loving, I thought that that was just
a revolutionary visual. So I was definitely open to it,
you know, and there's a process to get to it.
But yeah, yeah, like you say, I always tell people
will come on my show and also the people at
(07:00):
your listening to show. That's a process, you know, this
is never you know, you have to meet with your
other cast members and set boundaries about what makes you
feel comfortable and makes that other person feel comfortable so
it can feel natural. I'm sure this happened with you
on this series as well. Correct. Absolutely, we definitely have
intimacy coaches, and the intimacy coach is the interact in
(07:21):
the media, in the middle the media that works between
different actors, the directors, what the script demands and what
how do we get there? It's really great. So I'm
talking to Nicole, I'm calling my friend, you know, Uncle Clifford.
Uncle Clifford, because it's somebody who comes into your life
super confident, but also it's surrounded by a world of people,
(07:46):
not just women, but the world of people, customers who
really don't don't know what They live in a fantasy world,
and sometimes that fantasy world can be cruel. But I
would tell you this what I really like about this show,
p Valley. You see the word strip, you see the
word black, you just think he goes see a ton
of nudity, And that is not the case. It's the story,
is the characters, is the is the is the lateness.
(08:10):
The lines talk about that because that's what people initially think, correct,
and the stereotype is when you just black club, chip club,
you nudity New Digies, and that is not the case.
I in fact, the nudity when I watched the series,
it comes so casual that I don't notice it because
I'm so engaged into the character's storyline. And that's really
(08:32):
a blessing correct nical, It's it's more than a blessing.
I felt like it's a it's a necessity in the
way that we had to tell the story. This is
definitely I think that Tory really wanted to make sure
that there is definitely the fact that women and female
bodies have really been looked at and used in a
certain way in cinema specifically and over sexualized. But here
(08:56):
in this world, I think that there's something that we
call the female days, and that's something that's always asked
of people that the different directors that are coming on
the show. That's something that we think about as a
cast um and the female gays. That does not only
pertain to the female body. But how is it that
you can see the world without objectification? Um. I think
(09:18):
that through that space you you get to see the
athleticism of these poll d answers and to see what
it takes to physically do the things that they are
doing to haul themselves up this pole, to to to
fly around, to walk on the ceiling and on clouds.
That's actually the big metaphor for the show. The poll,
(09:39):
the poll. There's a line that always says, sometimes rising
feels like falling, and falling feels like rising. So the
poll is actually meant to be the metaphor for life
and in a way that we as black people, especially
Black Southerners, have existed and made it through the day.
We'll be right back with more Money Making Conversations math
(10:00):
her Class with Rashan McDonald. Now, let's return to Money
Making Conversations Masterclass with Rashan McDonald. Nicole, he brought up
the pole. Now, yeah, I'm chasing that, Keyshaw, do don't
(10:20):
get too don't don't don't move too fast because I
gotta get to them outstanding credit Shall and Mercedes. Okay,
but let's first go with Keyshaw. My my, my, my my.
I'm just talking from an athletic stample. I'm not talking
from a sexual stample. What I'm seeing that she does
on that pole, it has to be moth dropping to
(10:40):
the cast and where did they find her and what
is her background as an athlete because she has that
gymnastics in her background. Correct, Why do you say that?
Because of the fact she's so comfortable on the pole,
She's flexible, she's able to she's able to manipulate it because,
like I said, I'm not doing it justice. You have
to watch the series to see what she's able to do.
(11:03):
As far as from a from a Ballaridas standpoint, she
is really poet poetic on that pole, you know where
where Mercedes is a force. Not saying she's not sexual,
but she's a force. It's like watching a running back
and a wire receiver. A wire receiver flows, you know
what I'm saying. That's key, Sean. A running back can
(11:24):
flow to but they can hit that whole and if
you hit him, then you can knock you off. That's Mercedes,
that's rights say so and so so. So you're gonna
give me, Nicole, I know you're gonna give me. I
watched this show. Now, I'm not trying to get you
know what's what? What's I love that you are actually
saying that you you use the football metaphors and comparisons,
and it definitely is accurate all of the dancers. The
(11:46):
thing about it is in the strip club, every dancer
has a different style. Some of the dancers are like talkers,
so like, there's a group of our core dancers and
some of them run what in the club is called
tworktown and talktown are like, you know, the platform stages
that are within the actual club, not on the main
(12:07):
stage with the pole, and some of the girls who
worked there like toy. But then when you talk about
Miss Mississippi, who is played by Shannon Thornton, she is
that character is meant to be like the masterpiece she's
based off. She's called Miss Mississippi because she moves like water,
and her moving like water is rooted in the African
(12:28):
deity of Yema y'all, Yema y'all, being the goddess of
water and of power. You know, Mercedes is that like
you mentioned, Mercedes is played by Brandy Evans. I'm gonna
say Brandy Norwood, Brandy, that's not not my friend, and
sing about my friend. The actors Miss Brandy Evans, and
(12:50):
she her style of ranting is definitely much more athletic.
It's definitely much more physical, and it also lends to
the personality of the dancer. You know, where there's levels
of aggression or where there's a level of fluidity. I
think that dance being a choreographer and Brandy being a dancer,
(13:11):
and Shannon having dance before. None of them dance as uh,
pole dancers, but we're physical dancers. El Rika Johnson who
plays All the Night, she has an extensive background in
martial arts, So there was a level of physicality that
all of us had in our bodies. Then what has
to happen is that we go through a training program.
(13:32):
We go through boot camp. We literally go through boot camp,
just like all of the Marvel characters, just like we
need gonna do an action movie. There's about three to
four months before we actually start filming that everybody goes
to pole classes. You're going to stretch classes. You gotta
get your hips open, you gotta get the back, you
gotta do all the conditioning because it tears up your hands,
your knees, you get a lot of bruising and things
(13:54):
like that. Um and some of the girls are definitely
sharing some of that background on social media that you know,
you guys get to see of what it all takes.
Because the show and the world is kind of meant
to be our own kind of urban, circus ol lay
so to speak. Well, that terms used actually in the
serious as well circuss like and it's used the Mississippi.
(14:16):
Her character Keyshawn's role because she's married to a guy
won't give too much of the story away. But somebody
she shouldn't be She shouldn't I should use were married.
She's she's living with a guy who she has a
child with is not creating a comfortable home life for her,
and that the slides into the who I really love
this guy who plays the role of Diamond. You know,
(14:37):
it's like, you know, not often that. Did you see
a show where the bouncer is sensitive but but dangerous?
You know what I'm saying. You know, you know it's
like I look at Diamond, you know, a diamond. You know,
it's like I feel that I could lose his he
could crush me, but then he can also pick me
up and take me and rescue me at the same
(14:58):
time after he's crushed me, you know, San Nicole, So
talk about those characters. When you see a character like
a Diamonds character and then then being able to develop out,
how how special do you feel in the role from
episode to episode to episode? I feel great. I feel blessed.
I feel really uh. I know that this is a
(15:20):
special term as an artist. UH, as an actor, you
don't always get roles that are so rich and that
are really rooted in a level of truth that represents
your community, that can represent a fraction of your life
that you have been through. I think that this show,
it definitely takes all the different marginalized communities all and
(15:42):
the marginalized within the marginalized. You know. One of the
beautiful things and attractive points to me about this project
is that it wasn't just the women who come in
and out these doors. You talked about the bouncer, our Diamond. UM.
That's the character's name, and Diamond is played by Tyler
left League, and Tyler is able to bring the level
(16:02):
of sensitivity as well as complexity to the role coming
as a former um uh armed officer, the officer in
the of the law but armed forces, UM and what
that did to him being in the war, and that
that postpartum that comes from there. UM. I think that
(16:23):
it's also he's he's a route man, you know, he's
a black man and the Southern man that was raised
in knowing the powers of the earth and very strong
African medicine, um and how that works. And sometimes you
don't get to see that in an urban body, you know,
in a contemporary body, like what does that look like?
(16:46):
You know, it's not some kind of who do hokey magic.
It is literally something that's rooted in tradition, like have
you ever swept your grandmother slept by mistake? You know
what I'm saying. So that thought goes over the show absolutely,
you know, left the person on the floor, person on
the floor, get that, you know exactly those things so
(17:10):
um that those kinds of things in southern Southern uh
isms are woven into this story. And that actually is
a part of where Cotroy started her writing. Her writing
has always used and highlighted Southern culture and all of
its capacities to make it so here here's the thing
that really First of all, I'm a former sitcom writer.
(17:30):
I've done a lot of productions in my life. It's
definitely a show that about to do ultimate compliment. The writing.
The dialogue is incredible. I mean, this is this is
just that writing room are The writers on the show
have created a world that is so authentic that is incredible.
(17:55):
And when I when I when I when I look
like a Little Murder, I'm waiting for his music, you
know it is, so I wait, what is it gonna drop?
Are they gonna drop a CD for this? Are they
a soundtrack for this? Yes? Yes, they literally have. We have.
Uh it's on all platforms right now. It goes episode
by episode, so there every time there's a new music,
(18:17):
it is out there. And it's not only the music
of the character on this show, like Little Murder, but
the music of the Southern artists that we have gotten
to be on the soundtrack. The show literally is meant
to be a platform for the community. I think that's
something that a lot of people were a little shocked by.
But even one of our writers that writes music for
(18:39):
a Little Murder, the artist's name is new Money. Money
is a brother. New Money is a brother. He was
working with us during season one and you know what
he was doing. He was working at the food station.
He was making our omelets. He was making in One
morning we were there getting our breakfast and and you know,
(19:00):
he told I'll found Jay Fons Nicholson, who is the
actor who plays a Little Murder, And he had told
her he was like, yo, man, I know you're playing
a rock on the show. You know, I got some music.
I got some music. So we got some music. Oh
that's what's up. That's because people say that to you
all the time. And so what happened was he handed
him and he sent him some music. He uh, you know,
(19:20):
deemed them the music or whatever our farns wanted. Gonna
listen to the music. He heard it, he played it
for one of our producers, Patrick Patrick Ian Pope, one
of the k EPs. He then for that on Tator
Hall and before you knew it, the song was worked in.
He was brought on board. He's a writer. And here
we are in season two and this brother's life has changed.
(19:41):
So again, just like I got put on with this
project through a level of networking across from knowing Dominique
Marie So someone who I went to high school with.
She then knowing Quatre Hall who someone she's in a
writer's uh program with at the Lark Theater and here
I am, and then Antoine a new money. He was
(20:02):
just working getting a job, just get a job, but
still connected to your passion speaking it. That then turned
into something where he now as a writer and a
musician himself has elevated his platform and it's bringing all
this music to you. You know, it's just it just
it's a testament to how we can move at the community.
We'll be right back with more Money Making Conversations Masterclass
(20:25):
with Rushan McDonald. Now, let's return to Money Making Conversations
Masterclass with Rushan McDonald. I've change the music is fantastic,
that the characters are fantastic. You know when you say Grandmall,
I'll be remiss Nicole, if I don't bring Okay, I'll
re remiss if I don't bring up that character from Ive.
(20:51):
Come on, come on, that's my girl right there. Man.
You know she started on Netflix's Family Union and so
many other series. You know, been came from the University
of Houston. We're back in Houston, Texas, back in the day.
A k A true and true tell us absolutely my friend.
I've used to Texas absolutely so seeing her and seeing
(21:13):
her play this this this uh this role which is
as is Isaiah Washington who was on the first season.
He's from Houston, Texas, Missouri City, which is a suburb
of Houston, Texas. So to talk about that relationship and
her character, working with Loretta divine, I always say, is
simply divine. I had on a vision board to work
(21:38):
with her, and I didn't know what project. You know,
this was just something that I just always loved her
spirit and her zeal um. When I met her it
was even more. It was even more. She is such
a rich treasure, like she's like a national treasure to
(22:00):
to to us as a people. I can't, I can't.
I wanted to just say to me, but I don't
want to hold her to myself. Um, when we work together,
it is awesome. It is so much fun. We always
have a level I tend to do this generally when
I'm playing Uncle Clifford. There's a lot of improv that
happens prior to We always do improv scenes prior to
(22:22):
the scenes to get us in the flow because we
just want to be in the moment um. I am
from Detroit, as you mentioned earlier, but my family is
rooted in the South. You know. Detroit is just nothing
but up south, you know. So so there's a level
(22:44):
of comfortability that we have with one another, and we
really just bounce off and she's able to really just
be there and drop in. Sometimes we actually forget that
you know, we're not really related in real life. You know,
she's amazing. I'm talking to Nicole. He's one of the
stars and an incredibly popular series of stars that were
(23:06):
called The p Valley. You can catch it every Sunday
night at temp m Eastern and Pacific time. I always
try to educate myself. I always try to uplift I
always try to bring information to the show that we
all need to be aware of and also learned. There's
a level of respect we have to have for everybody.
And in your introduction I said, he just did he
demystifies the myth around southern black man, black gay man
(23:29):
and those identified in the non binary space and who
lived four lives us. As we close out this interview,
please explain to us exactly the importance of that and
what are you trying to What am I trying to
say when I say that what I just said, I
think what you are saying to me. How I receive
it is that it is a new day. It is
(23:50):
a time where we regardless of how you identify, I
think at the time when we can see all of us,
when we can acknowledge all of us, when we can
talk about it um, I come from a time from
when it used to be the question of are you
sweet or do you have sugar in your tank? Or
(24:13):
back in the day, even Red Fox, I'm saying for
the Tide, he was like, you know, he's a little
You know, there were things that people always talked about.
And I think that the importance of today is that
we really get to be able to meet each other
human being to human being. The character that I play
Uncle Clifford is non binary, and that's a person who
(24:36):
is equally accepting of all of the things that cannot
be held into a restrictive box. And I think when
you have a question of how someone identifies you, simply
do that you can ask. That is the level of
respect because one of the things I find with play
Uncle Clifford that no matter who you are or where
(24:58):
you come from, you respect her. I think you respect
her because you see her. So you see this body
that is six too, You see this dark skin, these
fool that you see this beard, but you see this
pretty face, and you see these nails and you're like,
what's going on? But you see someone walking with a
level of confidence and clarity even more so, and it's
(25:19):
not even about any kind of bravado. You know what
I mean. I think because when you see a woman
that is walking in her full femininity, I don't think
that she has to be soft or she has to
be in a pants suit to have authority. You know
I'm saying what I mean. And you don't think that
(25:40):
a brother that he has to be wearing a move
to be in touch with his feelings. You can be
who you are in your sweatpants and your athletic socks,
in your business suit, in your move. All of the
things come on, come on, especially for us as a community.
(26:02):
I feel so proud for this moment, honestly, brother, because
there are people who still have high levels of homophobia,
absolutely for sure. But what I do know about this
ton that I'm living in and this project is that
there are people who are willing to make a change,
that are opening their minds, that are opening their that
(26:23):
their minds not only to the l g B t
Q plus community in the full spectrum that we have,
you know, between bisexual, pan sexual trends as well as
pan sexual You know that I like it all. I
think that I think that people have really stigmatized sex
workers and pole dancers for so long and then they
(26:46):
watch this program and they're like, Oh, they're real people
just like me. They're going they're working their way through school,
they're taking care of their children, or they're helping their
their grandparents, their caretakers. You know, you can go to
the dentist and you not know that your dentists used
to be up on the pole or your dentists used
(27:06):
to be done and at a club. We all have
a history, but we also have the poetry right, our
future right. Absolutely. But Nicole, I want to thank you.
First of all, I want to give you a voice.
I wanted to say thank you for allowing me to
be entertained every Sunday. And if I missed it on Sunday,
I see it don't repeat on my streaming. But well,
(27:28):
you know, the thing I like it as we close
this interview out is that your character is not over
the top. It's a character I found very realistic, you know,
and but you just planning who you are, and I
think that's what you just said, just being the person
who you are. It doesn't have to be dressed a
certain way. You can were You're the same person in
a in a in a cool locks you're the same
person and you're short. You're the same person. Address you,
(27:51):
same person, a suit, same person with the blood wig.
You're the same person. It's just being administered in a
different look. And that's the exciting part of this show
is that P Valley is a show with a different look,
is set in a small town, fictional city in Mississippi.
The music is great, the acting is great, the drama
is great. More importantly, you will fall in love with
(28:12):
the characters. If you can't find stars Network find it,
drop that app. But importantly on Sunday Night, dropped it
app so you can see this show. Thank you for
taking the time to come on Money Making Conversation Masterclass.
You are a star, and not only on P Valley,
but you're just a star in real life. Thank you,
my friend, thank you brother. I appreciate it. And if
you want to see her here any episodes of Money
(28:33):
Making Conversation Masterclass please go to money Making Conversation dot com.
I'm Rashan McDonald. I am your host.
Host
Rushion McDonald
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