May 27, 2022 • 38 mins
Michael Santiago Render, AKA Killer Mike, discusses Bank Greenwood, the significance of teaching financial literacy to young people, the lessons learned from his grandparents, and the importance of activism.
Guest IG: @killermike
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tanya Sam and welcome to the Money Moves Podcast
powered by Greenwood. Hey, money Movers, I'm Tanya Sam and
this is the Money Move Podcast powered by Greenwood. Right now,
there is no dancing around it. We have a big name,
(00:22):
a celeb in the house with us, a celeb and friend.
The name is Killer Mike, and the list of accomplishments
is endless. Where do I even begin to start? Killer Mike.
You are an artist and activist and entrepreneur. You own
multiple businesses. You're also a husband, a television producer, and
someone I am very proud to call a friend. But
(00:42):
let's break it down. You're busy. Is that fair to say? Yeah?
I'm a kid from the west south of Atlanta. I
grew up on car your uh in the car your
highest community, right on call your Drive. I went to
Frederick Douglas High School and after Call your Ice Elementary
and later went to More House. After a year or
More House, I left to pursue music. Got a record
deal the same year I would have graduated. So the
worst mistake I made was dropping out for music. But
(01:05):
with that said, music is set. Well, um arned a Grammy.
I'm on a song called the Whole World Without cast.
I went on a mixtape run and built my own company,
was on Grindtime, and for the last eight years I've
been in a group called Run the Jewels, which is
one of the most heavily touring wrap groups in the world.
We did about hundred twenty three shows before COVID Close
and next year as Rage Against the Machine reunites for
(01:28):
a World to Or will be the opening huge. The
thing that kills me about this is what a diverse
list of interests and you haven't even hit upon all
of them. So super happy to have you on the
show today. And I wouldn't dive in because you know,
you talk about your wrap, Avoca accolades, you talk about this.
We haven't even got to the business piece. But we're
here and we're talking about Greenwood. So I want to
(01:49):
start off by, you know, asking you what was it
that drew you to get involved with Greenwood. Well, I mean,
first of all, Um, Paul Judge is incredible in terms
of tech bro so it made a lot of sense
when you know, you get a call from Paul and
Ryan Glover and say, hey, we want to have food
with you and talk about some stuff You go. You
know you're all right. It was a long night and
(02:10):
studio last night. But I'm just I'll be having lunch
at decent people hours. And Um Ryan had built successful
companies that I saw Paul that built successful companies. But
and I was I was already in with him asking
getting a chance to talk to my friend and mentor
since I've been fifteen years old, Andy Young. And when
Andy told me how things similar to Greenwood had been
(02:31):
able to help. When you say Andy, you mean Ambassador
Andy Young, who's really like a civil rights and icon
in the city of Atlanta. Yeah, and somebody your audience
should know. So if you if you hear me say
a name you don't know, it's important. God google right Andy.
It was not only a former U S ambassadors former
congressman from Georgia. UM served in Jimmy Jimmy Carter's administration,
(02:52):
but most importantly into my direct life, since all politics
is local. He was the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, and
provided an amazing example for people from my side of
town to aspire towards. He lived right in southwest Atlanta.
I grew up on the west side, the bottom of
the northwest side. UM went to Frederick Douglas. His son
went to my rival schoolmates, bos Onso a partner. So
(03:15):
I believe still sharp and steel, and I believe that
black excellence creates more excellence, and that excellence is better
for the greater community. So I grew up in a
nonclave that was totally ran four by black people and
worked in symbioti symbiotic relationship with the with the wider community.
UM and he brought forty billion dollars into Atlanta, eleven
(03:36):
billion dollars of that went directly into the black community,
black businesses, and I'm not talking about charity going business.
So when Andy, who classically wasn't a money guy, says,
I mean, Mike, this is valuable. And this is why
I was not only all in, I was all in
and also a friend that everybody who was doing it,
because Andy has never done, UM anything in my opinion
(03:57):
that with diverse that would adversely affect marks me absolutely,
and most of the things that Andy Young had done
has helped my community. But I also think you've been
You're a perfect example of looking towards a generation before
you and being inspired to act upon it because this
is nothing new for you. You've always been passionate about
talking about how to recirculate black and brown dollars with
(04:19):
inner communities. You've done television programs highlighting this, so you know,
it's like you took his torch and you were continuing
to carry it on, not just with Greenwood, but other
of your own independent activities. Can you tell us a
little bit more about those as well, and why this
resonates so clearly with you? Well, Man, I was definitely
mentor about Andy, but also people like Reverend James Orange
(04:39):
for On, Walter Cleveland, Uh, the late James Walt and
Reverend Love Averte Love are gone, but all these people
remembers that cel see all these people remember, you know,
local grad roots organization. So for me, I've been given
a responsibility. You know, Andy didn't pour all that into
my cup for me to just simply over my cup
and then Richard take care of myself. Um. I have
(04:59):
businesses in the community. Um we have a brand called
the Swag Shop, which is a barbershop, but we do
a heck of a lot more in retail than we
do the barbershop. So you come get your haircut, but
you're also I call it Demand's victorious secret. Right, you're
going to victorious secret right. As a man, I would
go on Valentine's Day, her birthday, and Christmas. My wife
would go to the story teas every week because she buys,
(05:21):
she buys. So what we've done in the barbershop is
figure out how to get people or how to get
men to make us a point of sale for everything,
whether you need T shirts, whether he needs shape and
bombs that stuff. So I've learned a lot from growing
the business. I learned to be patient. I learned it
takes time. I've learned that although you may start invest
in your own capital, ultimately that's not what you want
to be doing. So this is the way you go
(05:41):
out and find capital. Um. I have as a creative
had to retrain my brain for how I look at
things perspectively in matters of business. So the creative side
of my brain works as well as it ever did.
But I've had to grow and mature from a business aspect.
And that's why I really value being in a circle
of people like Bowl Paul li In, because they don't
tell you wrong. They just say, here's an alternative doing
(06:03):
Here's an alternative. Till you were Usually you would go
do a show, they pay you a hundred hundred fifty
that you put in your pocket. Then you go put
that into whatever business you want. Well, now you don't
get to do that. You get to actually put your
money to the side, shelter your money, how you need
to put some for your toirement. But you build relationship
with banks, You build relationship with credit where now you
(06:24):
can go get the credit you thought to make the
purchase so that that purchase can pay for itself. And
prime example is my wife and I, um, we rented
out the spaces for our first two barbershops. I'm like, man,
we aren't going anywhere. It's been six seven years. We
always pay these people on time. Why don't we get
into buying the spaces? And this is I mean, talk
about this because this is so interesting because you've gone
(06:44):
from you know, a musical creative I might say visionary
genius in that sector to now entrepreneurship and you're branching
into all these other multiple streams of income. And real
estate is one of the ones that I think within
our community people have such a huge misconception about Number One.
They're like, renting is fine. The best I should do
is just pay my rent on time and you and
shape are brilliant people, and like, as you said, you've
(07:05):
learned a lot along the way. So let's dive into
this piece of like how your views on how to
you know, gain wealth in the real estate market have
sort of evolved and changed. Well, let me give you this.
My great grandparents, UM, one of the children of people
who are enslaved. They worked. And I say this not
on some mold. You know, this is the family myth
(07:25):
boology I've been told. No, I knew my great grandparents.
I knew my big daddy, Nathaniel Blackman. I knew my
big mom, true Zella Blacks Beautiful. We got shipped to
their farm in Tuskegee, Alabama. We had to cut sugar
cane and we had to you know, you had to
go get the eggs onto the chicken. You had to all.
You had to be self sustaining. These people, um were
(07:46):
wealthy because they left their children acres of land from
share cropping. They left their children over twenty acres. I mean,
that's just that story right there. I mean I just
want to share that to the of top. These are
share croppers, people who you know, grew up in a
time when they couldn't even own land, but had the
fourth sight to be like, if I own this land,
(08:07):
I can pass it down generation. And here you are
sitting here saying like they were wealthy, like this happens
in their community. Now. They didn't have gaudy things. They
weren't rich. My grandmother said for Christmas they would get
potato sacked, drawls and fruit, and my grandfather says, silly,
that was Christmas. It wasn't no Christmas for me at all,
because you were from a horror family. But my grandparents were,
(08:28):
My great grandparents were wealthy because the land that they
left is still in our family. And last year me
and my sister's got our few hundred dollars from the
timber company that cuts down So this land still feeds,
it still does stuff for us, and it will continue
to stay in ournand the mouth my grandparents homes that
they all God blessed to dead, my sisters and not all.
I bought multiple um commercial and single family homes on
(08:51):
the side of town I was from, because forfordable housing
needs to be in Atlanta and people who work in
the city. My grandmother moved to Atlanta nineteen fifty. She
walked to nursing school, got a nursing degree, walked back
home every day, ended up buying a house on the
same street on the better side. So my thing is,
that's a story that I have to live up to.
I have a responsibility to make sure that even though
(09:14):
I sing and dance for a living, to not lose
my fortune through selling my publishing. I have a responsibility
to maintain as much control over my master's as possible.
I have a responsibility to grow and plant businesses while
I'm here. And I have a greater responsibility to make
sure that I leave something for my great grandchildren that
that may or may not know me. I was was
(09:35):
that my daughter's um commencement speech yesterday while I had
heard as she graduated, and a Jamaican woman gave the
gave the speech, and she said, my great grandfather told
my father, I'm planning this treat of mangoals so that
one day my great grandchildren will eat from them. And
this woman says, as I sat in Jamaica eating mangoals,
(09:56):
to my stomach was ready to burst, I realized that
I'm man, I've never met care enough to leave something
for me to nourish me and that's simply my motivation
for business. I don't like getting up doing the meetings.
My wife is better at that than me. I don't
often times like sitting through the numbers, but I've learned
(10:17):
that the numbers matter most in terms of making sure
everything is accounted for. But what I've learned to love
is knowing that the actions and the small steps I
take right now will benefit my grandchildren and my grand
that I love how you say that, because sometimes it's tough,
it's sometimes you know, it's not stuff that we love.
But if you focus on loving the end result, all
(10:37):
that doesn't matter. All that doesn't matter, because we're eating
from this mango tree until we are like overflowing with abundance.
So talk about if we go back to the real
estate piece. You know, you and Shay had this revelation
where you're like, we're renting. You know, our forefathers are
literally going no no no um. I feel like this
this keys into the Greenwood piece a lot and what
we're really trying to do when Greenwood launches, being able
(11:00):
to um afford people the ability to get real estate
loans even though you know you're a famous celebrity. Talk
about your struggles, um, and someone in the banking relationships
and being able to get loans. Well, it's about having
a relationship. So banks scene took to to to most people,
banks are big, huge, faceless corporation. UM. Black banks in
(11:24):
my Black Banking initiative six seven years ago really show
Black people that no banks are still something very localized.
Citizens Trust Bank was my first bank account. Um to
this day, I know I keep a least a couple
hundred thousand dollars with them. You know, it's for for form,
you know, just just because they were for the first
so I'm not always going to keep somebody there. Um.
They taught me the discipline of banking, as my grandmother
(11:45):
taught me to balance the check book. It was a
citizens Trust tech book. You know. She made sure that
I knew the important to back banking. But beyond that,
even local bank a lot of times you have local
banks and you have banks that tilt and understand communities.
Greenwood is a bank that understands community. So as I
opened barbershops, most big banks, most banks that are not
culturally where I'm from, are not gonna understand the necessity
(12:08):
of a barbershop. Because people who aren't African, aren't a
part of the African diaspora, don't get their haircut every week.
Most black men in the desper're gonna get the haircut
one every two weeks. So you have a residual customer coming.
But then they'll look at it and say, well, you're
doing bluefrint. You aren't doing commissions. So then you're saying, okay, well,
I need to switch to commissions. I'll take a bigger
portion of me and the barber's essentially become partners. And
(12:29):
you say yourself, okay, but I'm still only making um
this amount poor monks in this amount per year. Then
you have the revelation that, as a man, I don't
want to go in the beauty store to buy my brush.
I need beard oil, man, I need some T shirts
to match these Jordan's, I need a lighter, I need
a bottle of opener, and I just simply says, inherent
to our culture. You don't have to explain this when
(12:50):
you sit in front of you know, the founders of
because they're black mouth absolutely So when I tell show
them the numbers, then this is what we've done over
the course of the last nine three sixty five days.
It turns it into a radically different conversation with any bank,
but especially with the bank that has to practicality to
understand your community where it's coming from. I tell people
(13:12):
all the time, churches, looking stories, and barbershops don't go
out of business in the black community. Beauty shops as well,
just don't because if you're good, you're stand by what
you do. You have an integrity there. Everything else is
alcohol in Jesus. But I really think that we have
I really think we have the ability to grow. So
I want I am one of the businesses that I
wish to help. And in regards to renting in real estate, um,
(13:32):
we still rent two spaces, you know. But what I
start seeing was things like one to three door strip
malls come up for sale. So Shandon and I said,
so why don't we start targeting those and we become
the landlords. While other people who were in our position
wants small business owners. We know you can make eight
hundred to twelve hundred dollars a month rent. You know
you're gonna make that rent, and it gives your time
(13:54):
to really launch and grow your business before you jump
into twenty three, twenty five and three thousand dollar a month,
you know, rent, and so now we get an opportunity
to not only bass faces to put out barber shops
and then pay our self rent, but to help other entrepreneurs. Yeah, exactly.
And my wife is a very brilliant. She is an
incredible force, and the two of you are incredibly dynamic
(14:15):
duo together, and Atlanta is so happy to have you
because what you're doing is the epitome of you know,
putting your money where your mouth is. You're helping to
recirculate the dollars. You're giving opportunity to entrepreneurs that otherwise
would have not been able to start their business, to
feed their families and then therefore create generational wealth. So Mike,
tell me, you know, you've changed the trajectory of your
(14:37):
career from singing and dancing and now you've taken this
leap into entrepreneurship. Tell our money Moves audience, Um, some
of the advice to what it takes to get started
and be successful in entrepreneurship and also taking a leap
into different areas of career changes. So I'm in a
very successful rap group that gets treated as a rock group.
So we we tour rock bands we do how to
(14:59):
shelves a year, we make a lot of money, you know,
all right. With that said, I never gave up on
solo rap. So I took some time and you know,
recorded some cool things that got placed in some sinks
and stuff that brought a little more money in. But
I didn't need the money and I didn't need a Bentley,
you know, I like my hell cat um. What I
decided to do was put away more money for our
(15:19):
stocks and bus put away more money for our time
and fund, but again to become landlords. To find real
estate that's in that middle area, whether it's affordable apartments
that are coming into Atlanta. We're in part of investment
group on whether it is um strip malls to do that.
But I learned this stuff not from just the hugely
successful people I knew, right, I learned this stuff from
my grandparents. I learned that you live below your means.
(15:44):
I learned that you and your partner have a true
partnership and you have full disclosure and transparency in terms
of money. I lived my life the exact same way
my grandfather does. My grandmother knew what he made in
the check came home Fridays, My wife knows when the
checks coming and win its landing right. We discussed what
we're doing with checks. That gets done and we proceed
because we have a trajectory we're pointing to it. I
(16:04):
don't want to have to work in five years. I
don't want my wife to ever have to work for
another man. I don't. The only way we do that
is work incredibly hard. Now, for people who want to
be entrepreneurs, if you don't like working forty hours a
week for someone else, then understand you're gonna work a
hundred and fifty hours a week. Say that again. If
you don't like working forty hours of someone else, get
(16:27):
prepared to work one fifty for yourself. You're gonna be
working so hard you're gonna thank you whipping, y'all. I
mean that is the truth. You know, this idea of
this misnomer that you know, if you're an entrepreneur you're
literally on the beach working five hours a day while
everybody else it's just not true. You will never be
successful like that. And I mean say that again. You
heard it right there. I tell you shake something. I said.
(16:48):
If you're working from bed, and you imagine a woman
with fruit and silk gowns all but it's usually her
her glasses of crooking, her scarf is fostered away, and
she's solving a problem with the tonet before she runs
out the door to make a meeting. You know, it's
it's important that you understand. There's a woman I follow
named A k A A nundrum. Um. I want people
to follow her. Um. She's like a sister. She gives
(17:09):
so we catch we can catch her. I'll give you
the spell on this A k A A nundrum her.
We always recommend. I'll pull I'll pull her up so
people can see her. Because what she does is give um.
She gives people amazing advice. She doesn't she's not charging
your tons of money this people. Okay, we got her. Okay.
(17:34):
So this sister is to me one of the most
prolific people in because she helps you solves very simple
problem with So if you, if you go buy something,
you should tell l see it. If you if you
if you make a dollar, you should make sure that
you only use a quarter everything figure out saving seventy
five percent. You know they're varies and needs. The stuff
I just learned from my grand Here. You know, my grandfather,
(17:55):
my grandmother. I never get the first time I bought
a hundred and twenty dollars a game from Chuck E. Cheese,
I was like, man, I'm bowling, Man, I'm gonna go
about some Jay's. The old check is gone a hundred
dollars of my money and left me with twenty bucks.
And so what's really interesting about that is my dad
is from Ghana. He was born and raised there, and
(18:17):
there is this tradition there that when your children, you know,
graduate from school and make their first check from their
first job, you have to give it all back to
your parents parts because it's like thank you for what
you've done, thank you for what you've taught me. And
I remember that day came around and my dad put
his hand out and I was like, but really, and
he was like, yeah, maybe the point is they take
(18:38):
it and they save it for you. That's what I
was going to give people. So after I graduate high
school and go to college, in a second citizen's trust account,
not my main one, which I usually floated, kept about
two hundred bucks and at that time there is a
thousand dollars safe from all those checks that she just took.
(19:00):
And she was a bully but but I understand. I
understood it, and I understand and now um in parenting
my children, I get to use some of those lessons.
But you know, people, a lot of it is is
to me start smaller, scale up first, and I contruckt.
Can I practice self control and self discipline with my money? Right?
Can I do that? Next? Is it possible? Is it
(19:22):
possible for me to put something aside, not only from
the savings, but investing. So if you can't go invest
and build a business. What are the things that you
like that you wear? Do you eat it? Chucky cheese?
Do you wear Nikes? Is polar favorite company of yours?
Put the money you would have put into buying some
of those things into buying shares, absolutely little things like this,
(19:45):
Coca Cola and Delta. When my first stocks my grandparents
bought for me and kindergarten, I stupidly sold those stocks
and my freshman year of college because I just didn't
know any better. I kicked myself in the butt all
the time. Because these two people, one who was formally educated,
one was functionally illiterate. These two people were way smarter
than me for most of my life about money because
(20:07):
they respected the coin. They took care of it because
it was took care of us. And our grandparents had
one house that we lived in. They had another house
that they rented out. You know, the day you have
Airbnb and stuff. They just had old folks that rent
it that didn't need afordable rent. My grandfather kept that house.
One of my sisters lives in the grandmother's one of
my sister lives in the grandfathers. But that house that
produced rent all those years was the reason we went
(20:28):
on vacation. So I got a chance, unlike many of
my classmates, to explore the Southeast, to go to places
like Florida, the Panhandle, to fish deep sea fish. Because
my grandfather, who drove a dump truck and Sault moon Shine, said,
this rent will make sure these children can go on
world culture and even if it is in the Southeast,
or saying, you know, you got out of town, you
(20:48):
got to see different things. And what I appreciate so
much about you being so candid about sharing these stories
is that oftentimes people are like, well, I didn't come
from a parental background where they taught me these things.
Well you're here right now, let's into it. So you
can't use that anymore. There's somebody that tried to teach it.
It might have not have been a person you love
the most, might not have been a person you like
(21:08):
the best, but somebody. Everybody got an uncle or someone
that cares enough. Take that little bit of advice, take
some more knowledge, wisdom and understanding that you gain, and
just build it. We have to stop seeing ourselves as
the point or pinnacle of the pyramid. We are the foundation.
We are the four corners of this pyramid. We have
only been free about fifty nine years in this country.
(21:31):
We've had to fight redlining, not being insured, land confiscation,
unfair treatment with g I building farmers not before you
even get to slavery, and Jim crowism before you even
get to that. So go easy on yourself, don't go
too hard. Start small with good self discipline and taking
care of yourself, and then make sure that you help
someone in the family, understand you help your neighbor, and
(21:52):
organized from a community effort standpoint. If there's a plot
of land that's I saw in your community, why haven't
you got five ten neighbors together and see if we're
gonna buy this plot. We're going to create a community garden.
People in this community will be able to take them this.
You have to get innovative. Now I know here people
see this right, and then they see white folk protests.
They think you got there from some white folk. But
that's not where I got that from. I got there
from a bunch of old black folks and target heights
(22:14):
because that's what they did. Yes, people have a gardener
currently feeds about six or seven families. My sister was
the wild. She like to go to the clubs, have funny,
but my grandmother made her learn garden. You better get
down here after you go to your club, and you
and you're gonna talk about this is the message that
you're also telling us. It's not about hey, let somebody
else do it. You're looking people straight in the IYND
(22:37):
saying you do it, you do, they're not gonna do it.
And your family absolutely we celebrate the brother Malcolm Makes's
birthday or there to ago. Brother Malcolm. Let you know
that you're gonna have to do for self. The oppressor
is not going to give you the education to free you.
The oppressor is not going to give you the information
to free you. The press is not going to give
you the encouragement to free you free yourself. You have
to and as possible, we can do it. You know
(22:59):
we have done it. But when we celebrate the centennial
of of Greenwood and Tulsa right that this this this district,
that this bank, and and the green with the whisky name.
For when we celebrate that, we have to understand it.
This self determination is what more than burning a town down.
What they did was to break or try to break
(23:19):
the self determination. But that self determination is not broke.
Those people are still as hard as as hard working
as they has ever been in Montgomery, in Birmingham, and
Atlanta and Charlotte and Tampa. You know, we have to
say to ourselves that we have a tradition of winning too.
We don't We're not only stopped from a place of
losing or being denied or being taken from people have
(23:41):
repeatedly shown the Brown people in this country, immigrants in
this country, have repeatedly shown ourselves not only worthy, but
beyond worthy in terms of what we have. You know,
we have the ability to influence this culture and to
give something to our community and a greater community. And
I'm just proud to be a part of Greenwood because
it allows me to do that past art. I love
being an artist. I love telling people believing yourself you
(24:03):
can do it, and that's nice, right, But I also
love my uncle who's a mechanic who can fix your car.
And Greenwood is a banking institution. Is this It is
an opportunity for you to take the phone in your hand,
to take control of your financial literacy and life, to
start to say I'm going to spend as much and
saved as much, and then graduate to the next level
and say I'm going to get a car loan on
(24:24):
a home and then graduating that stuff, I'm going to
get my homelan instead of getting a house to my
my dreams, I'm gonna get a duplex. I'mnna living one side,
I'm gonna rent out the other side. The rent out
of the other side pays the mortgage, which allows me
to save more of my money, and now I can
start the scale of invest But it's a protracted struggle.
I didn't get successful in music till I was thirty five.
I was just my seventeen year in music. But all
(24:47):
the lessons I learned while I struggle, I applied Once
I got an opportunity too, you know, so I'm proud
to be a part of an institution like like my
grandparents shows black people and brown people. If I'm willing
to her card, if I'm willing to keep my nose
to the grindstone, if I'm willing to learn and be
intelligent about my coin, that there's a possibility because I
never knew we were rich. And to my wife, who
(25:09):
grew up in the housing projects, say, y'all, that's what
what's you talking about? She said, y'all had an RV,
y'all got to drive the Tampa to gold fishing with
And I'm like, yeah, what I said, other people are
She said, no, that's rich. But I love that because
your grandparents were intentional about creating a wealth. Also inexperience, Right,
(25:30):
it's not just and this is what I think that
generational having a little bit of money but being able
to sacrifice so that you can say they exposed you
to experience that made you a real child of this country.
That's that's what this bank is going to do for
the unbanked, for the people who live in bank deserts,
for the kids who are only um moving around via
(25:51):
pay pals and things of that nature. Now this is
going to get it an opportunity to be banked. And
and as black people especially owe until our children to
teach them from the mistakes we've made so that they
do not have to repeat them. It is time to
have open and eyes to dialogue and conversation. I spent
too much money on the car ball, I bought too
(26:12):
much car can I foo when I should have saved that.
We all made mistakes. Let's take all the information from
the mistakes that we've made, and let's be honest with
them so that when we say, now this is what
we're gonna do, they understand you're speaking from a place
of experience and not just a place of content condemning
them or a place of judgment. And I'd love to
(26:33):
hear you say that because you talk openly also about
your mistakes and the sacrifice you've made, because you know,
especially for someone being so successful in the entertainment industry people,
and especially in a city like Atlanta, there's a lot
of flash, there's a lot of pizzis. But but here
you are saying, like, my goals are bigger than what
I'm purchasing today, and it's sacrifice. And this is something
(26:55):
that I love to hear being repeated over and over
in our commute, because there is sacrifice for tomorrow's bigger goals,
and they are always bigger than a pair of Jay's,
you know, maybe that flashy car and probably a chain.
But you have to be able to be willing to
make those sacrifices. Yeah, man I, and I surround myself
(27:16):
with like minded people. I was in the studio with
an honorable see note last night. He was a great
brother Right producers for two change producers for me. It
is produced with goods, has produced with some of the
greatest guys coming out of the city. And he was
ordering an amazingly beautiful, expensive car. And here's the thing.
I'm not saying we don't like nice things or we
don't just no, no, no, it's just It's just I
(27:36):
had never had this kind of conversation with what I said.
See what's up with the y'all? What's up with the cars?
I thought I didn't love? He said, Man, I got
a few more years. I get that call. Man, I
put my stuff in investments. And I looked like you
you know what I'm saying, Like you too, And so
it's it's it's I say that because as young singers
(27:57):
and dancers and athletes and stuff, we're going to have
a tremendous opportunity to get our hands on a lot
of cash quickly. Don't forget to be patient about what
you want. It's like when you go to towards us
when you're a kid and your mom's like, you can
get one thing, So you spent most of the time
I walk through what do I really want? Oh my gosh, yeah, like,
(28:18):
but it puts you in a position where you had
to understand the level of important and what I want.
And I just want all of you all to know
we can, we must, we will, we can do better,
we must do better, and we will do better. Don't
be so hard in yourself. Start small and try so
before you go. Get a food truck. Get a food cart.
Cart does well, you get you get, you grow that
(28:40):
to the food truck. The food truck does well, you
grow it to breaking mortar. But do not go out
um and put everything into one thing so quickly that
after you after if it doesn't work out, you have
nothing minus or plus. You don't have the confidence, the
confidence and information study stuff. My wife is better at
me in business because My wife is constantly studying business.
(29:03):
Don't mean I don't have good business instincts, but she
is going to know what the cops in the area are,
She's gonna know what at the rentalway, what, She's gonna
know everything. To the point when I'd be sending to
me just quiet, I just like to build it. I
thought it was I thought it would make a nice thought,
you know, but she gets it, so I will. She
takes the time to study it. And also, like you know,
(29:23):
to your point what you're saying is you know this
idea of like overnight sensations, it's honestly, it's about the
base heads. You get to first, you sit on first,
You get a second, you sit on second, you get
to come and your home and guess what you're up
to bat again, It's not this, oh my gosh, I
hit it at the park, and you have to be
okay with sitting on first. You do and don't change
every trend. I learned that listening to Warren Buffett. You know,
(29:46):
decide the things that you're on and be on those things,
like make sure those things have proven themselves to My
grandfather told me when I was' he said, you don't
own nothing. You can't you can't put in the cup
and measure right. He was he giving me that example
about in their spencer, and even though I had got
into other stuff that he owned, stocks and stuff, primarily,
what he was trying to tell me was by land.
(30:07):
So part of my portfolio or big part, is just landownership.
Then I got in the stocks and stuff. Once I
got I got in the stocks because I didn't know anything.
I learned. I started asking people, start listening to Warren
Buffet interviews, started listening to Charlie mug Start to understand, Oh,
so this is like God, but this is on the Okay.
I got into that A lot of the other stuff.
I called Paulo, paul what is cryptocurrency? How does this work?
(30:31):
So don't be afraid to be a student, don't be
afraid to be ignorant about some things, the stuff that
you know, the stuff that has proven itself worthy. Leaning
into those things and then you can grow and get sexier.
But from a very rudimentarial level. UM, I try to
stay as close to the old folks as possible. You know,
I watched that um Buffett didn't even invest outside of
America until about ten fifteen years ago. He knew the
(30:52):
companies here. He did that. So let's just teach each
other more. Let's share information more. Let's get together once
a month and have business part I love this. I
love this. It's almost like having mastermind groups. Right. This
is what we want to be able to facilitate and
foster at Greenwood. You tune into a podcast, you make comments,
and we get to share other like minded mindsets to
(31:14):
take us to the next level. Mike, I definitely want
to touch on something that is very dear to your
heart and the hearts of many Atlanta's. You are an
activist and you have been on a platform that is
not just big here in Atlanta, it's traveled across the
whole world. But I really feel like activism and financial
wealth and wealth building are intertwined. Do you want to
(31:35):
talk about the importance of that for you, especially in
these past couple of months in this year. So I
grew up in the car your heights. People google that
please so you'll understand significant of that. It's a community
started bout black people for black people. It was so
black they put clubs and bars in their basement because
they didn't want to take money to white folks club right,
they were, they were all about them. And now that's
(31:57):
everybody from black people like my grandparents, who was a
nerd and a dump truck driving. My grandfathers drove dump trucks,
my grandmother's nurse. That's everybody from Herman Russell was the
largest black real estate developers. Billy and Cynthia McKenney lived
there in the King family, Um, the mom and dad.
So that's a diverse group of people. And what I've
learned is it takes all types. Right. Um, if you
(32:18):
don't have Herman Russell, or you don't have Mr kat Though,
the numbers man, you don't have a lot of civil
rights marches because white corporates are not gonna pay for
a civil rights march. White liquor runners ain't gonna pay
for a civil rights march. It took black men and
women of means to underwrite that. It wasn't just black actors,
you know, it wasn't just Bellafonte, who was an amazingly
(32:40):
amazing hero. Took a lot of local jokeers. You would
never hear about local people with lots of money that
wanted to remain anonymous in terms of marching, but their
money was not anonymous, their money underwriting. So I learned
living in my community like Pete Green say, you can't
do nothing if you're bro I can't do never sit
(33:02):
there and think about I. Oftentimes I am approached by
my black sisters and brothers that are into Marxism, socials
and things in that nature. I can find a look
good in every system because black people on the bottom
and every system right don't matter to me. With system
we and I'd have been around the world four times.
Everywhere I go to people look like us on the bottom.
But what I can tell you is no other system
have I seen provide the opportunity that my great grandparents
(33:26):
had to acquire land, provided the opportunity for my family
to keep the land, and provided opportunity for someone like
me to come out of a working class section called
card Ice and now be one of the most successful
and influential people. Not because my family was a good
family and end with the black bougeois the other talent intent,
but because I worked my butt off. I understood my
own proclivity of my shortcomings, and when I was good
(33:47):
at so I tried to spare my shortcomings. I tried
to do better what I was good at. All of
this opportunity comes from the fact that I understand my position.
So what I want black people to know, especially is
it is possible. It may take longer. Life is not fair. Yes,
there are systemic things that are going to get in
your way, but you are strong enough, capable, creative enough
to do it. And we have to understand that it
(34:09):
is going to take black capitalism too. Now I know
Fred Hampton is one of my heroes. My mother made
read may have this book at fifteen years old. My
mother also stold a lot of drugs and was a
successful capitalist, God bless to dead. My mother wanted me
to understand the mentality of a revolutionary, but she said,
in this practical, day to day basis a man, a
(34:31):
black man, especially without money or means or trade or business,
it's going to be treated worse than a feral housecat,
worse than a rabbit dog. So I understood that to
take care of my wife, to take care of my children,
to take care of my state is one of the
most noble things I can do. And if you don't,
as black people, take care of yourself first and take
(34:51):
care of your community. We're gonna be left beggars. I
talked to my brothers that have social that a communists
and I'll said, well, send me a link to see
the information I want to see there nation and I'll
go to the link information and asked it for donations. Well,
how am I gonna donate if I don't participate in capitalists?
The capitalism? But I love you. It's black capitalism, Yeah,
(35:13):
it is. I call a compassion capitalism because I give
right back to the community I'm from. When you look
at Stokely Carmine Pomtuy brother was just amazing, spent his
life working for us, got cancer, incurable cancer, wanted to
die at home in Africa. Of all the organizations that
(35:34):
this menu started, all the organization had been a part of.
It took Mike Roberts, a black billionaire, hotel financier, wiless
wiless mobile. It took him putting together a fundraiser of
black capitalists to get our brother home. And our brother
went pro capitalist, our brother one pro capitalism. He won
(35:54):
pro black capitalists. But in the end, it took black
people who understood the power a coin to take care
of him. So whether we agree that's just for black
people who may or may not agree with you. I
just need you to know I love you enough to
first take care of myself to make sure my health
and wealth is good. I love you enough to take
care of my wife and children so they're not a
burden on you. But I love you enough. Should Joe
(36:16):
Way not work out, I want to be safety net
that saves us. Green was the first of many things
I wish to do. There's no reason forty million people
in America that are black people. Twenty million of us
are employed, right at least million employed. Is no reason
we don't have ten dollars a month to send to
a fund to take care of a salege of court
(36:37):
with me I boot Jamal, that's two hundred and fifty
million or so that you begin a month. It's no
reason we can't do it. We're just unorganized. But the
minute we start to learn to organize ourselves with our
check books, we start to organize ourselves in terms of
our financeing my phone, that little bit of let as
(36:58):
myself turns into I can better organ as with my
neighbor Tarzan, taking better organized with our community. Now we
can better organize as people. And that's what I hope
to see in my lifetime. I love this. I love this,
and Killer Mike, you and your family continue to not
just walk the talk, you are doing all sorts of
things that are really moving our family, for our families forward,
(37:19):
our communities forward, not just here in Atlanta, but you
know it's it's spreads and ripples all across this country.
So I thank you. I wish you guys the best
and continued success. Killer Mike, you just came in here
and dropped all the gems and Mike's I can't take it. Love, love,
and respect, All Greenwood guys. Thank you. Here at Money Moves,
we plan to keep on dropping as many jewels as
(37:39):
knowledge as we can to help build financial literacy and
wealth and success for all of our communities. So make
sure you keep tuning into the Money Moves podcast powered
by Greenwood as we continue to explore all the ways
we can keep making our money moves. Thank you so
much for tuning in Money Moves audience. If you want
more or a recap of this episode, please go to
(38:00):
a bank Greenwood dot com and check out the Money
Moves podcast blog. Money Moves is an I heart radio
podcast powered by Greenwood executive produced by Sunwise Media Inc.
For more podcasts on I heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
(38:20):
podcasts from.
I'm Tanya Sam and welcome to the Money Moves Podcast
powered by Greenwood. Hey, money Movers, I'm Tanya Sam and
this is the Money Move Podcast powered by Greenwood. Right now,
there is no dancing around it. We have a big name,
(00:22):
a celeb in the house with us, a celeb and friend.
The name is Killer Mike, and the list of accomplishments
is endless. Where do I even begin to start? Killer Mike.
You are an artist and activist and entrepreneur. You own
multiple businesses. You're also a husband, a television producer, and
someone I am very proud to call a friend. But
(00:42):
let's break it down. You're busy. Is that fair to say? Yeah?
I'm a kid from the west south of Atlanta. I
grew up on car your uh in the car your
highest community, right on call your Drive. I went to
Frederick Douglas High School and after Call your Ice Elementary
and later went to More House. After a year or
More House, I left to pursue music. Got a record
deal the same year I would have graduated. So the
worst mistake I made was dropping out for music. But
(01:05):
with that said, music is set. Well, um arned a Grammy.
I'm on a song called the Whole World Without cast.
I went on a mixtape run and built my own company,
was on Grindtime, and for the last eight years I've
been in a group called Run the Jewels, which is
one of the most heavily touring wrap groups in the world.
We did about hundred twenty three shows before COVID Close
and next year as Rage Against the Machine reunites for
(01:28):
a World to Or will be the opening huge. The
thing that kills me about this is what a diverse
list of interests and you haven't even hit upon all
of them. So super happy to have you on the
show today. And I wouldn't dive in because you know,
you talk about your wrap, Avoca accolades, you talk about this.
We haven't even got to the business piece. But we're
here and we're talking about Greenwood. So I want to
(01:49):
start off by, you know, asking you what was it
that drew you to get involved with Greenwood. Well, I mean,
first of all, Um, Paul Judge is incredible in terms
of tech bro so it made a lot of sense
when you know, you get a call from Paul and
Ryan Glover and say, hey, we want to have food
with you and talk about some stuff You go. You
know you're all right. It was a long night and
(02:10):
studio last night. But I'm just I'll be having lunch
at decent people hours. And Um Ryan had built successful
companies that I saw Paul that built successful companies. But
and I was I was already in with him asking
getting a chance to talk to my friend and mentor
since I've been fifteen years old, Andy Young. And when
Andy told me how things similar to Greenwood had been
(02:31):
able to help. When you say Andy, you mean Ambassador
Andy Young, who's really like a civil rights and icon
in the city of Atlanta. Yeah, and somebody your audience
should know. So if you if you hear me say
a name you don't know, it's important. God google right Andy.
It was not only a former U S ambassadors former
congressman from Georgia. UM served in Jimmy Jimmy Carter's administration,
(02:52):
but most importantly into my direct life, since all politics
is local. He was the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, and
provided an amazing example for people from my side of
town to aspire towards. He lived right in southwest Atlanta.
I grew up on the west side, the bottom of
the northwest side. UM went to Frederick Douglas. His son
went to my rival schoolmates, bos Onso a partner. So
(03:15):
I believe still sharp and steel, and I believe that
black excellence creates more excellence, and that excellence is better
for the greater community. So I grew up in a
nonclave that was totally ran four by black people and
worked in symbioti symbiotic relationship with the with the wider community.
UM and he brought forty billion dollars into Atlanta, eleven
(03:36):
billion dollars of that went directly into the black community,
black businesses, and I'm not talking about charity going business.
So when Andy, who classically wasn't a money guy, says,
I mean, Mike, this is valuable. And this is why
I was not only all in, I was all in
and also a friend that everybody who was doing it,
because Andy has never done, UM anything in my opinion
(03:57):
that with diverse that would adversely affect marks me absolutely,
and most of the things that Andy Young had done
has helped my community. But I also think you've been
You're a perfect example of looking towards a generation before
you and being inspired to act upon it because this
is nothing new for you. You've always been passionate about
talking about how to recirculate black and brown dollars with
(04:19):
inner communities. You've done television programs highlighting this, so you know,
it's like you took his torch and you were continuing
to carry it on, not just with Greenwood, but other
of your own independent activities. Can you tell us a
little bit more about those as well, and why this
resonates so clearly with you? Well, Man, I was definitely
mentor about Andy, but also people like Reverend James Orange
(04:39):
for On, Walter Cleveland, Uh, the late James Walt and
Reverend Love Averte Love are gone, but all these people
remembers that cel see all these people remember, you know,
local grad roots organization. So for me, I've been given
a responsibility. You know, Andy didn't pour all that into
my cup for me to just simply over my cup
and then Richard take care of myself. Um. I have
(04:59):
businesses in the community. Um we have a brand called
the Swag Shop, which is a barbershop, but we do
a heck of a lot more in retail than we
do the barbershop. So you come get your haircut, but
you're also I call it Demand's victorious secret. Right, you're
going to victorious secret right. As a man, I would
go on Valentine's Day, her birthday, and Christmas. My wife
would go to the story teas every week because she buys,
(05:21):
she buys. So what we've done in the barbershop is
figure out how to get people or how to get
men to make us a point of sale for everything,
whether you need T shirts, whether he needs shape and
bombs that stuff. So I've learned a lot from growing
the business. I learned to be patient. I learned it
takes time. I've learned that although you may start invest
in your own capital, ultimately that's not what you want
to be doing. So this is the way you go
(05:41):
out and find capital. Um. I have as a creative
had to retrain my brain for how I look at
things perspectively in matters of business. So the creative side
of my brain works as well as it ever did.
But I've had to grow and mature from a business aspect.
And that's why I really value being in a circle
of people like Bowl Paul li In, because they don't
tell you wrong. They just say, here's an alternative doing
(06:03):
Here's an alternative. Till you were Usually you would go
do a show, they pay you a hundred hundred fifty
that you put in your pocket. Then you go put
that into whatever business you want. Well, now you don't
get to do that. You get to actually put your
money to the side, shelter your money, how you need
to put some for your toirement. But you build relationship
with banks, You build relationship with credit where now you
(06:24):
can go get the credit you thought to make the
purchase so that that purchase can pay for itself. And
prime example is my wife and I, um, we rented
out the spaces for our first two barbershops. I'm like, man,
we aren't going anywhere. It's been six seven years. We
always pay these people on time. Why don't we get
into buying the spaces? And this is I mean, talk
about this because this is so interesting because you've gone
(06:44):
from you know, a musical creative I might say visionary
genius in that sector to now entrepreneurship and you're branching
into all these other multiple streams of income. And real
estate is one of the ones that I think within
our community people have such a huge misconception about Number One.
They're like, renting is fine. The best I should do
is just pay my rent on time and you and
shape are brilliant people, and like, as you said, you've
(07:05):
learned a lot along the way. So let's dive into
this piece of like how your views on how to
you know, gain wealth in the real estate market have
sort of evolved and changed. Well, let me give you this.
My great grandparents, UM, one of the children of people
who are enslaved. They worked. And I say this not
on some mold. You know, this is the family myth
(07:25):
boology I've been told. No, I knew my great grandparents.
I knew my big daddy, Nathaniel Blackman. I knew my
big mom, true Zella Blacks Beautiful. We got shipped to
their farm in Tuskegee, Alabama. We had to cut sugar
cane and we had to you know, you had to
go get the eggs onto the chicken. You had to all.
You had to be self sustaining. These people, um were
(07:46):
wealthy because they left their children acres of land from
share cropping. They left their children over twenty acres. I mean,
that's just that story right there. I mean I just
want to share that to the of top. These are
share croppers, people who you know, grew up in a
time when they couldn't even own land, but had the
fourth sight to be like, if I own this land,
(08:07):
I can pass it down generation. And here you are
sitting here saying like they were wealthy, like this happens
in their community. Now. They didn't have gaudy things. They
weren't rich. My grandmother said for Christmas they would get
potato sacked, drawls and fruit, and my grandfather says, silly,
that was Christmas. It wasn't no Christmas for me at all,
because you were from a horror family. But my grandparents were,
(08:28):
My great grandparents were wealthy because the land that they
left is still in our family. And last year me
and my sister's got our few hundred dollars from the
timber company that cuts down So this land still feeds,
it still does stuff for us, and it will continue
to stay in ournand the mouth my grandparents homes that
they all God blessed to dead, my sisters and not all.
I bought multiple um commercial and single family homes on
(08:51):
the side of town I was from, because forfordable housing
needs to be in Atlanta and people who work in
the city. My grandmother moved to Atlanta nineteen fifty. She
walked to nursing school, got a nursing degree, walked back
home every day, ended up buying a house on the
same street on the better side. So my thing is,
that's a story that I have to live up to.
I have a responsibility to make sure that even though
(09:14):
I sing and dance for a living, to not lose
my fortune through selling my publishing. I have a responsibility
to maintain as much control over my master's as possible.
I have a responsibility to grow and plant businesses while
I'm here. And I have a greater responsibility to make
sure that I leave something for my great grandchildren that
that may or may not know me. I was was
(09:35):
that my daughter's um commencement speech yesterday while I had
heard as she graduated, and a Jamaican woman gave the
gave the speech, and she said, my great grandfather told
my father, I'm planning this treat of mangoals so that
one day my great grandchildren will eat from them. And
this woman says, as I sat in Jamaica eating mangoals,
(09:56):
to my stomach was ready to burst, I realized that
I'm man, I've never met care enough to leave something
for me to nourish me and that's simply my motivation
for business. I don't like getting up doing the meetings.
My wife is better at that than me. I don't
often times like sitting through the numbers, but I've learned
(10:17):
that the numbers matter most in terms of making sure
everything is accounted for. But what I've learned to love
is knowing that the actions and the small steps I
take right now will benefit my grandchildren and my grand
that I love how you say that, because sometimes it's tough,
it's sometimes you know, it's not stuff that we love.
But if you focus on loving the end result, all
(10:37):
that doesn't matter. All that doesn't matter, because we're eating
from this mango tree until we are like overflowing with abundance.
So talk about if we go back to the real
estate piece. You know, you and Shay had this revelation
where you're like, we're renting. You know, our forefathers are
literally going no no no um. I feel like this
this keys into the Greenwood piece a lot and what
we're really trying to do when Greenwood launches, being able
(11:00):
to um afford people the ability to get real estate
loans even though you know you're a famous celebrity. Talk
about your struggles, um, and someone in the banking relationships
and being able to get loans. Well, it's about having
a relationship. So banks scene took to to to most people,
banks are big, huge, faceless corporation. UM. Black banks in
(11:24):
my Black Banking initiative six seven years ago really show
Black people that no banks are still something very localized.
Citizens Trust Bank was my first bank account. Um to
this day, I know I keep a least a couple
hundred thousand dollars with them. You know, it's for for form,
you know, just just because they were for the first
so I'm not always going to keep somebody there. Um.
They taught me the discipline of banking, as my grandmother
(11:45):
taught me to balance the check book. It was a
citizens Trust tech book. You know. She made sure that
I knew the important to back banking. But beyond that,
even local bank a lot of times you have local
banks and you have banks that tilt and understand communities.
Greenwood is a bank that understands community. So as I
opened barbershops, most big banks, most banks that are not
culturally where I'm from, are not gonna understand the necessity
(12:08):
of a barbershop. Because people who aren't African, aren't a
part of the African diaspora, don't get their haircut every week.
Most black men in the desper're gonna get the haircut
one every two weeks. So you have a residual customer coming.
But then they'll look at it and say, well, you're
doing bluefrint. You aren't doing commissions. So then you're saying, okay, well,
I need to switch to commissions. I'll take a bigger
portion of me and the barber's essentially become partners. And
(12:29):
you say yourself, okay, but I'm still only making um
this amount poor monks in this amount per year. Then
you have the revelation that, as a man, I don't
want to go in the beauty store to buy my brush.
I need beard oil, man, I need some T shirts
to match these Jordan's, I need a lighter, I need
a bottle of opener, and I just simply says, inherent
to our culture. You don't have to explain this when
(12:50):
you sit in front of you know, the founders of
because they're black mouth absolutely So when I tell show
them the numbers, then this is what we've done over
the course of the last nine three sixty five days.
It turns it into a radically different conversation with any bank,
but especially with the bank that has to practicality to
understand your community where it's coming from. I tell people
(13:12):
all the time, churches, looking stories, and barbershops don't go
out of business in the black community. Beauty shops as well,
just don't because if you're good, you're stand by what
you do. You have an integrity there. Everything else is
alcohol in Jesus. But I really think that we have
I really think we have the ability to grow. So
I want I am one of the businesses that I
wish to help. And in regards to renting in real estate, um,
(13:32):
we still rent two spaces, you know. But what I
start seeing was things like one to three door strip
malls come up for sale. So Shandon and I said,
so why don't we start targeting those and we become
the landlords. While other people who were in our position
wants small business owners. We know you can make eight
hundred to twelve hundred dollars a month rent. You know
you're gonna make that rent, and it gives your time
(13:54):
to really launch and grow your business before you jump
into twenty three, twenty five and three thousand dollar a month,
you know, rent, and so now we get an opportunity
to not only bass faces to put out barber shops
and then pay our self rent, but to help other entrepreneurs. Yeah, exactly.
And my wife is a very brilliant. She is an
incredible force, and the two of you are incredibly dynamic
(14:15):
duo together, and Atlanta is so happy to have you
because what you're doing is the epitome of you know,
putting your money where your mouth is. You're helping to
recirculate the dollars. You're giving opportunity to entrepreneurs that otherwise
would have not been able to start their business, to
feed their families and then therefore create generational wealth. So Mike,
tell me, you know, you've changed the trajectory of your
(14:37):
career from singing and dancing and now you've taken this
leap into entrepreneurship. Tell our money Moves audience, Um, some
of the advice to what it takes to get started
and be successful in entrepreneurship and also taking a leap
into different areas of career changes. So I'm in a
very successful rap group that gets treated as a rock group.
So we we tour rock bands we do how to
(14:59):
shelves a year, we make a lot of money, you know,
all right. With that said, I never gave up on
solo rap. So I took some time and you know,
recorded some cool things that got placed in some sinks
and stuff that brought a little more money in. But
I didn't need the money and I didn't need a Bentley,
you know, I like my hell cat um. What I
decided to do was put away more money for our
(15:19):
stocks and bus put away more money for our time
and fund, but again to become landlords. To find real
estate that's in that middle area, whether it's affordable apartments
that are coming into Atlanta. We're in part of investment
group on whether it is um strip malls to do that.
But I learned this stuff not from just the hugely
successful people I knew, right, I learned this stuff from
my grandparents. I learned that you live below your means.
(15:44):
I learned that you and your partner have a true
partnership and you have full disclosure and transparency in terms
of money. I lived my life the exact same way
my grandfather does. My grandmother knew what he made in
the check came home Fridays, My wife knows when the
checks coming and win its landing right. We discussed what
we're doing with checks. That gets done and we proceed
because we have a trajectory we're pointing to it. I
(16:04):
don't want to have to work in five years. I
don't want my wife to ever have to work for
another man. I don't. The only way we do that
is work incredibly hard. Now, for people who want to
be entrepreneurs, if you don't like working forty hours a
week for someone else, then understand you're gonna work a
hundred and fifty hours a week. Say that again. If
you don't like working forty hours of someone else, get
(16:27):
prepared to work one fifty for yourself. You're gonna be
working so hard you're gonna thank you whipping, y'all. I
mean that is the truth. You know, this idea of
this misnomer that you know, if you're an entrepreneur you're
literally on the beach working five hours a day while
everybody else it's just not true. You will never be
successful like that. And I mean say that again. You
heard it right there. I tell you shake something. I said.
(16:48):
If you're working from bed, and you imagine a woman
with fruit and silk gowns all but it's usually her
her glasses of crooking, her scarf is fostered away, and
she's solving a problem with the tonet before she runs
out the door to make a meeting. You know, it's
it's important that you understand. There's a woman I follow
named A k A A nundrum. Um. I want people
to follow her. Um. She's like a sister. She gives
(17:09):
so we catch we can catch her. I'll give you
the spell on this A k A A nundrum her.
We always recommend. I'll pull I'll pull her up so
people can see her. Because what she does is give um.
She gives people amazing advice. She doesn't she's not charging
your tons of money this people. Okay, we got her. Okay.
(17:34):
So this sister is to me one of the most
prolific people in because she helps you solves very simple
problem with So if you, if you go buy something,
you should tell l see it. If you if you
if you make a dollar, you should make sure that
you only use a quarter everything figure out saving seventy
five percent. You know they're varies and needs. The stuff
I just learned from my grand Here. You know, my grandfather,
(17:55):
my grandmother. I never get the first time I bought
a hundred and twenty dollars a game from Chuck E. Cheese,
I was like, man, I'm bowling, Man, I'm gonna go
about some Jay's. The old check is gone a hundred
dollars of my money and left me with twenty bucks.
And so what's really interesting about that is my dad
is from Ghana. He was born and raised there, and
(18:17):
there is this tradition there that when your children, you know,
graduate from school and make their first check from their
first job, you have to give it all back to
your parents parts because it's like thank you for what
you've done, thank you for what you've taught me. And
I remember that day came around and my dad put
his hand out and I was like, but really, and
he was like, yeah, maybe the point is they take
(18:38):
it and they save it for you. That's what I
was going to give people. So after I graduate high
school and go to college, in a second citizen's trust account,
not my main one, which I usually floated, kept about
two hundred bucks and at that time there is a
thousand dollars safe from all those checks that she just took.
(19:00):
And she was a bully but but I understand. I
understood it, and I understand and now um in parenting
my children, I get to use some of those lessons.
But you know, people, a lot of it is is
to me start smaller, scale up first, and I contruckt.
Can I practice self control and self discipline with my money? Right?
Can I do that? Next? Is it possible? Is it
(19:22):
possible for me to put something aside, not only from
the savings, but investing. So if you can't go invest
and build a business. What are the things that you
like that you wear? Do you eat it? Chucky cheese?
Do you wear Nikes? Is polar favorite company of yours?
Put the money you would have put into buying some
of those things into buying shares, absolutely little things like this,
(19:45):
Coca Cola and Delta. When my first stocks my grandparents
bought for me and kindergarten, I stupidly sold those stocks
and my freshman year of college because I just didn't
know any better. I kicked myself in the butt all
the time. Because these two people, one who was formally educated,
one was functionally illiterate. These two people were way smarter
than me for most of my life about money because
(20:07):
they respected the coin. They took care of it because
it was took care of us. And our grandparents had
one house that we lived in. They had another house
that they rented out. You know, the day you have
Airbnb and stuff. They just had old folks that rent
it that didn't need afordable rent. My grandfather kept that house.
One of my sisters lives in the grandmother's one of
my sister lives in the grandfathers. But that house that
produced rent all those years was the reason we went
(20:28):
on vacation. So I got a chance, unlike many of
my classmates, to explore the Southeast, to go to places
like Florida, the Panhandle, to fish deep sea fish. Because
my grandfather, who drove a dump truck and Sault moon Shine, said,
this rent will make sure these children can go on
world culture and even if it is in the Southeast,
or saying, you know, you got out of town, you
(20:48):
got to see different things. And what I appreciate so
much about you being so candid about sharing these stories
is that oftentimes people are like, well, I didn't come
from a parental background where they taught me these things.
Well you're here right now, let's into it. So you
can't use that anymore. There's somebody that tried to teach it.
It might have not have been a person you love
the most, might not have been a person you like
(21:08):
the best, but somebody. Everybody got an uncle or someone
that cares enough. Take that little bit of advice, take
some more knowledge, wisdom and understanding that you gain, and
just build it. We have to stop seeing ourselves as
the point or pinnacle of the pyramid. We are the foundation.
We are the four corners of this pyramid. We have
only been free about fifty nine years in this country.
(21:31):
We've had to fight redlining, not being insured, land confiscation,
unfair treatment with g I building farmers not before you
even get to slavery, and Jim crowism before you even
get to that. So go easy on yourself, don't go
too hard. Start small with good self discipline and taking
care of yourself, and then make sure that you help
someone in the family, understand you help your neighbor, and
(21:52):
organized from a community effort standpoint. If there's a plot
of land that's I saw in your community, why haven't
you got five ten neighbors together and see if we're
gonna buy this plot. We're going to create a community garden.
People in this community will be able to take them this.
You have to get innovative. Now I know here people
see this right, and then they see white folk protests.
They think you got there from some white folk. But
that's not where I got that from. I got there
from a bunch of old black folks and target heights
(22:14):
because that's what they did. Yes, people have a gardener
currently feeds about six or seven families. My sister was
the wild. She like to go to the clubs, have funny,
but my grandmother made her learn garden. You better get
down here after you go to your club, and you
and you're gonna talk about this is the message that
you're also telling us. It's not about hey, let somebody
else do it. You're looking people straight in the IYND
(22:37):
saying you do it, you do, they're not gonna do it.
And your family absolutely we celebrate the brother Malcolm Makes's
birthday or there to ago. Brother Malcolm. Let you know
that you're gonna have to do for self. The oppressor
is not going to give you the education to free you.
The oppressor is not going to give you the information
to free you. The press is not going to give
you the encouragement to free you free yourself. You have
to and as possible, we can do it. You know
(22:59):
we have done it. But when we celebrate the centennial
of of Greenwood and Tulsa right that this this this district,
that this bank, and and the green with the whisky name.
For when we celebrate that, we have to understand it.
This self determination is what more than burning a town down.
What they did was to break or try to break
(23:19):
the self determination. But that self determination is not broke.
Those people are still as hard as as hard working
as they has ever been in Montgomery, in Birmingham, and
Atlanta and Charlotte and Tampa. You know, we have to
say to ourselves that we have a tradition of winning too.
We don't We're not only stopped from a place of
losing or being denied or being taken from people have
(23:41):
repeatedly shown the Brown people in this country, immigrants in
this country, have repeatedly shown ourselves not only worthy, but
beyond worthy in terms of what we have. You know,
we have the ability to influence this culture and to
give something to our community and a greater community. And
I'm just proud to be a part of Greenwood because
it allows me to do that past art. I love
being an artist. I love telling people believing yourself you
(24:03):
can do it, and that's nice, right, But I also
love my uncle who's a mechanic who can fix your car.
And Greenwood is a banking institution. Is this It is
an opportunity for you to take the phone in your hand,
to take control of your financial literacy and life, to
start to say I'm going to spend as much and
saved as much, and then graduate to the next level
and say I'm going to get a car loan on
(24:24):
a home and then graduating that stuff, I'm going to
get my homelan instead of getting a house to my
my dreams, I'm gonna get a duplex. I'mnna living one side,
I'm gonna rent out the other side. The rent out
of the other side pays the mortgage, which allows me
to save more of my money, and now I can
start the scale of invest But it's a protracted struggle.
I didn't get successful in music till I was thirty five.
I was just my seventeen year in music. But all
(24:47):
the lessons I learned while I struggle, I applied Once
I got an opportunity too, you know, so I'm proud
to be a part of an institution like like my
grandparents shows black people and brown people. If I'm willing
to her card, if I'm willing to keep my nose
to the grindstone, if I'm willing to learn and be
intelligent about my coin, that there's a possibility because I
never knew we were rich. And to my wife, who
(25:09):
grew up in the housing projects, say, y'all, that's what
what's you talking about? She said, y'all had an RV,
y'all got to drive the Tampa to gold fishing with
And I'm like, yeah, what I said, other people are
She said, no, that's rich. But I love that because
your grandparents were intentional about creating a wealth. Also inexperience, Right,
(25:30):
it's not just and this is what I think that
generational having a little bit of money but being able
to sacrifice so that you can say they exposed you
to experience that made you a real child of this country.
That's that's what this bank is going to do for
the unbanked, for the people who live in bank deserts,
for the kids who are only um moving around via
(25:51):
pay pals and things of that nature. Now this is
going to get it an opportunity to be banked. And
and as black people especially owe until our children to
teach them from the mistakes we've made so that they
do not have to repeat them. It is time to
have open and eyes to dialogue and conversation. I spent
too much money on the car ball, I bought too
(26:12):
much car can I foo when I should have saved that.
We all made mistakes. Let's take all the information from
the mistakes that we've made, and let's be honest with
them so that when we say, now this is what
we're gonna do, they understand you're speaking from a place
of experience and not just a place of content condemning
them or a place of judgment. And I'd love to
(26:33):
hear you say that because you talk openly also about
your mistakes and the sacrifice you've made, because you know,
especially for someone being so successful in the entertainment industry people,
and especially in a city like Atlanta, there's a lot
of flash, there's a lot of pizzis. But but here
you are saying, like, my goals are bigger than what
I'm purchasing today, and it's sacrifice. And this is something
(26:55):
that I love to hear being repeated over and over
in our commute, because there is sacrifice for tomorrow's bigger goals,
and they are always bigger than a pair of Jay's,
you know, maybe that flashy car and probably a chain.
But you have to be able to be willing to
make those sacrifices. Yeah, man I, and I surround myself
(27:16):
with like minded people. I was in the studio with
an honorable see note last night. He was a great
brother Right producers for two change producers for me. It
is produced with goods, has produced with some of the
greatest guys coming out of the city. And he was
ordering an amazingly beautiful, expensive car. And here's the thing.
I'm not saying we don't like nice things or we
don't just no, no, no, it's just It's just I
(27:36):
had never had this kind of conversation with what I said.
See what's up with the y'all? What's up with the cars?
I thought I didn't love? He said, Man, I got
a few more years. I get that call. Man, I
put my stuff in investments. And I looked like you
you know what I'm saying, Like you too, And so
it's it's it's I say that because as young singers
(27:57):
and dancers and athletes and stuff, we're going to have
a tremendous opportunity to get our hands on a lot
of cash quickly. Don't forget to be patient about what
you want. It's like when you go to towards us
when you're a kid and your mom's like, you can
get one thing, So you spent most of the time
I walk through what do I really want? Oh my gosh, yeah, like,
(28:18):
but it puts you in a position where you had
to understand the level of important and what I want.
And I just want all of you all to know
we can, we must, we will, we can do better,
we must do better, and we will do better. Don't
be so hard in yourself. Start small and try so
before you go. Get a food truck. Get a food cart.
Cart does well, you get you get, you grow that
(28:40):
to the food truck. The food truck does well, you
grow it to breaking mortar. But do not go out
um and put everything into one thing so quickly that
after you after if it doesn't work out, you have
nothing minus or plus. You don't have the confidence, the
confidence and information study stuff. My wife is better at
me in business because My wife is constantly studying business.
(29:03):
Don't mean I don't have good business instincts, but she
is going to know what the cops in the area are,
She's gonna know what at the rentalway, what, She's gonna
know everything. To the point when I'd be sending to
me just quiet, I just like to build it. I
thought it was I thought it would make a nice thought,
you know, but she gets it, so I will. She
takes the time to study it. And also, like you know,
(29:23):
to your point what you're saying is you know this
idea of like overnight sensations, it's honestly, it's about the
base heads. You get to first, you sit on first,
You get a second, you sit on second, you get
to come and your home and guess what you're up
to bat again, It's not this, oh my gosh, I
hit it at the park, and you have to be
okay with sitting on first. You do and don't change
every trend. I learned that listening to Warren Buffett. You know,
(29:46):
decide the things that you're on and be on those things,
like make sure those things have proven themselves to My
grandfather told me when I was' he said, you don't
own nothing. You can't you can't put in the cup
and measure right. He was he giving me that example
about in their spencer, and even though I had got
into other stuff that he owned, stocks and stuff, primarily,
what he was trying to tell me was by land.
(30:07):
So part of my portfolio or big part, is just landownership.
Then I got in the stocks and stuff. Once I
got I got in the stocks because I didn't know anything.
I learned. I started asking people, start listening to Warren
Buffet interviews, started listening to Charlie mug Start to understand, Oh,
so this is like God, but this is on the Okay.
I got into that A lot of the other stuff.
I called Paulo, paul what is cryptocurrency? How does this work?
(30:31):
So don't be afraid to be a student, don't be
afraid to be ignorant about some things, the stuff that
you know, the stuff that has proven itself worthy. Leaning
into those things and then you can grow and get sexier.
But from a very rudimentarial level. UM, I try to
stay as close to the old folks as possible. You know,
I watched that um Buffett didn't even invest outside of
America until about ten fifteen years ago. He knew the
(30:52):
companies here. He did that. So let's just teach each
other more. Let's share information more. Let's get together once
a month and have business part I love this. I
love this. It's almost like having mastermind groups. Right. This
is what we want to be able to facilitate and
foster at Greenwood. You tune into a podcast, you make comments,
and we get to share other like minded mindsets to
(31:14):
take us to the next level. Mike, I definitely want
to touch on something that is very dear to your
heart and the hearts of many Atlanta's. You are an
activist and you have been on a platform that is
not just big here in Atlanta, it's traveled across the
whole world. But I really feel like activism and financial
wealth and wealth building are intertwined. Do you want to
(31:35):
talk about the importance of that for you, especially in
these past couple of months in this year. So I
grew up in the car your heights. People google that
please so you'll understand significant of that. It's a community
started bout black people for black people. It was so
black they put clubs and bars in their basement because
they didn't want to take money to white folks club right,
they were, they were all about them. And now that's
(31:57):
everybody from black people like my grandparents, who was a
nerd and a dump truck driving. My grandfathers drove dump trucks,
my grandmother's nurse. That's everybody from Herman Russell was the
largest black real estate developers. Billy and Cynthia McKenney lived
there in the King family, Um, the mom and dad.
So that's a diverse group of people. And what I've
learned is it takes all types. Right. Um, if you
(32:18):
don't have Herman Russell, or you don't have Mr kat Though,
the numbers man, you don't have a lot of civil
rights marches because white corporates are not gonna pay for
a civil rights march. White liquor runners ain't gonna pay
for a civil rights march. It took black men and
women of means to underwrite that. It wasn't just black actors,
you know, it wasn't just Bellafonte, who was an amazingly
(32:40):
amazing hero. Took a lot of local jokeers. You would
never hear about local people with lots of money that
wanted to remain anonymous in terms of marching, but their
money was not anonymous, their money underwriting. So I learned
living in my community like Pete Green say, you can't
do nothing if you're bro I can't do never sit
(33:02):
there and think about I. Oftentimes I am approached by
my black sisters and brothers that are into Marxism, socials
and things in that nature. I can find a look
good in every system because black people on the bottom
and every system right don't matter to me. With system
we and I'd have been around the world four times.
Everywhere I go to people look like us on the bottom.
But what I can tell you is no other system
have I seen provide the opportunity that my great grandparents
(33:26):
had to acquire land, provided the opportunity for my family
to keep the land, and provided opportunity for someone like
me to come out of a working class section called
card Ice and now be one of the most successful
and influential people. Not because my family was a good
family and end with the black bougeois the other talent intent,
but because I worked my butt off. I understood my
own proclivity of my shortcomings, and when I was good
(33:47):
at so I tried to spare my shortcomings. I tried
to do better what I was good at. All of
this opportunity comes from the fact that I understand my position.
So what I want black people to know, especially is
it is possible. It may take longer. Life is not fair. Yes,
there are systemic things that are going to get in
your way, but you are strong enough, capable, creative enough
to do it. And we have to understand that it
(34:09):
is going to take black capitalism too. Now I know
Fred Hampton is one of my heroes. My mother made
read may have this book at fifteen years old. My
mother also stold a lot of drugs and was a
successful capitalist, God bless to dead. My mother wanted me
to understand the mentality of a revolutionary, but she said,
in this practical, day to day basis a man, a
(34:31):
black man, especially without money or means or trade or business,
it's going to be treated worse than a feral housecat,
worse than a rabbit dog. So I understood that to
take care of my wife, to take care of my children,
to take care of my state is one of the
most noble things I can do. And if you don't,
as black people, take care of yourself first and take
(34:51):
care of your community. We're gonna be left beggars. I
talked to my brothers that have social that a communists
and I'll said, well, send me a link to see
the information I want to see there nation and I'll
go to the link information and asked it for donations. Well,
how am I gonna donate if I don't participate in capitalists?
The capitalism? But I love you. It's black capitalism, Yeah,
(35:13):
it is. I call a compassion capitalism because I give
right back to the community I'm from. When you look
at Stokely Carmine Pomtuy brother was just amazing, spent his
life working for us, got cancer, incurable cancer, wanted to
die at home in Africa. Of all the organizations that
(35:34):
this menu started, all the organization had been a part of.
It took Mike Roberts, a black billionaire, hotel financier, wiless
wiless mobile. It took him putting together a fundraiser of
black capitalists to get our brother home. And our brother
went pro capitalist, our brother one pro capitalism. He won
(35:54):
pro black capitalists. But in the end, it took black
people who understood the power a coin to take care
of him. So whether we agree that's just for black
people who may or may not agree with you. I
just need you to know I love you enough to
first take care of myself to make sure my health
and wealth is good. I love you enough to take
care of my wife and children so they're not a
burden on you. But I love you enough. Should Joe
(36:16):
Way not work out, I want to be safety net
that saves us. Green was the first of many things
I wish to do. There's no reason forty million people
in America that are black people. Twenty million of us
are employed, right at least million employed. Is no reason
we don't have ten dollars a month to send to
a fund to take care of a salege of court
(36:37):
with me I boot Jamal, that's two hundred and fifty
million or so that you begin a month. It's no
reason we can't do it. We're just unorganized. But the
minute we start to learn to organize ourselves with our
check books, we start to organize ourselves in terms of
our financeing my phone, that little bit of let as
(36:58):
myself turns into I can better organ as with my
neighbor Tarzan, taking better organized with our community. Now we
can better organize as people. And that's what I hope
to see in my lifetime. I love this. I love this,
and Killer Mike, you and your family continue to not
just walk the talk, you are doing all sorts of
things that are really moving our family, for our families forward,
(37:19):
our communities forward, not just here in Atlanta, but you
know it's it's spreads and ripples all across this country.
So I thank you. I wish you guys the best
and continued success. Killer Mike, you just came in here
and dropped all the gems and Mike's I can't take it. Love, love,
and respect, All Greenwood guys. Thank you. Here at Money Moves,
we plan to keep on dropping as many jewels as
(37:39):
knowledge as we can to help build financial literacy and
wealth and success for all of our communities. So make
sure you keep tuning into the Money Moves podcast powered
by Greenwood as we continue to explore all the ways
we can keep making our money moves. Thank you so
much for tuning in Money Moves audience. If you want
more or a recap of this episode, please go to
(38:00):
a bank Greenwood dot com and check out the Money
Moves podcast blog. Money Moves is an I heart radio
podcast powered by Greenwood executive produced by Sunwise Media Inc.
For more podcasts on I heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
(38:20):
podcasts from.
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