April 8, 2022 • 30 mins
Kim is a journalist, writer, author, and TV producer. She was the first female editor in chief of The Source Magazine. Here she discusses her career as a journalist and starting her own production company. Kim also shares the stumbling blocks she encountered during her career.
Host IG:@itstanyatime
Guest IG: @kimosorio1
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, money Movers, Welcome back to Money Moves, the daily
podcast determined to give you the keys to the Kingdom
of financial stability, wealth and abundance. Welcome money Movers for
another episode of the Money Moves Podcast powered by Greenwood.
(00:23):
Our expert today is Puerto Rican journalist, writer, author, TV producer,
and reality TV personality Straight from the Bronx b K
New York. She became the first female editor in chief
of The Source magazine in two thousand and two, and
it was under her leadership that the magazine boasted two
of its highest selling issues to date. She has served
(00:45):
as a writer, producer, and executive editor and on air
talent for b ET and you may remember seeing her
alongside Angela Yee on the v H one reality series
The Gossip Game, named among the New York Post Top
twenty five most influential Tina's in New York. Money Moves.
Let's welcome Kim Osorio to the podcast. Hi Kim, and
(01:07):
welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to cyber see
you here today. Welcome to the Money Moves Podcast. Hey Daniel,
thank you for having me so it is super great
to have you with us, and you have had a
long and illustrious career, and I'm really excited to share
this with our listeners. One of the things that we
really love about our show is being able to set
(01:27):
out pathways and roadways for others to follow in the
success of incredible entrepreneurs and female boss women like yourself. So,
can you start off by telling us a little bit
about how you got into the journalism and entertainment industry. Sure,
um So, I've been in the game for I like
to call it a game. I don't know why. I
(01:49):
love I've been I've been in the business for um
over twenty years. I got into entertainment as a writer
of Most people know me from my career as the
editor chief of the Source magazine um So. I started
writing just documenting hip hop culture in the nineties. It
was something that I had grown up on, something that
(02:09):
I come to love, and I really realized I could
find a career in it. Um I actually went to
law school to be a law So that was Yeah,
when you're when you're coming up, you know, kind of
uh in the Bronx like myself, and you're going to
school and you're following a certain path, there are not
a lot of options if you don't have the right
(02:32):
mentors to show you what's out. So for me, I
just always had a passion for the law. I was
interested in it, and I went to law school. But
it really honed my skills as a writer, and I
think it helped me when I got out of law
school and started to write on my path, UM, just
as a as a writer and then ultimately as a
(02:53):
storyteller and production. So I work now in television production
UM as an executive produce sir, And there have been
so many things, UM I've done along the path, but
it's really based in storytelling. I love that. And you
know what I think is so important about this, and
I talk about this all the time, Now that we
are telling our own stories, we are now looking back
(03:15):
and we're being able to be the ones who are
at the top of the food chain in entertainment, in journalism,
and we're telling the stories of black women, hip hop
and our culture, and we're now sort of driving those
engines and trains. And I think that is so important
because this is how we then set down tracks for
like future generations to see how we did this. In
(03:35):
your incredible, incredible career, UM, you've written several books, You've
produced many television shows talk about, you know, some of
the pivotal points that really helped you get your foot
in the door and anchor your success. I would say,
you know, there were a lot of people that helped
me and that recognized my talent as a writer. Um.
(03:56):
But it's awesome because as a writer, I've always been
able to put myself into the story, and we've learned
as journalists to keep ourselves out. So there's like a really,
I guess, um sneaky way that you can do it. Um.
(04:16):
The more that I've done it, the more passionate I've
become about the subject matter that I'm writing about. And
I think it's really helped me so as I navigate
different areas of life that intersects with the storytelling that
I'm doing, and I think that's something that's really fueled
(04:37):
UM my work even up until this day. So it
go back to the nineties and everything that you know
we were doing back then covering the culture. It was
I was really living in the culture. So it's learning
how to document that tell the story, injecting yourself but
still maintaining that integrity as a journalist. And I think
(04:58):
that's what really shines in resonate resonates right, that authenticity
and when you go back to the days of the source, right,
the source was driving and telling our culture. And you know,
if you just are able to take a step back
and really just be like, I'm telling my story, I'm
telling the story of all the females, the men beside
me that live this life. I think that's sort of
testament to why you were part of, you know, such
(05:21):
a revolutionary time in magazine and magazine culture. It's pretty incredible.
Thank you, And you know, I think we need to
recognize the value in our own stories. If you watch Netflix, Hulu,
whatever it is that you choose to watch, you'll see
how we're driving the narratives um in television, you know,
(05:42):
on the internet, social media. Uh. And if we understand
our power, I think that can help us maximize our success.
That is so true. And you know, I just want
everyone to understand, like what a powerful force you are
because you were one of the first women in history
in the history of the magazine to serve as editor
in chief. Like that's a huge honor and it's a
(06:04):
huge role to have taken on. What was that like
and did you feel celebrated and powerful and like you
made it at that time? It was, it was very empowering.
I talk a lot about women in UM, you know,
positions like the one that I held back then. I
was the first editor in chief of the Source magazine
(06:26):
female editor in chief sack. Then I was the first
female editor in chief of the Source magazine. But I
wasn't the first female editor, right, And it's important to
note that there were many who came before me, and
they achieved certain levels in their respective areas, right, whether
(06:46):
it was another magazine, whether it was a different UM
department of the magazine, they reached those heights. And a
lot of times when you get to that that's celebrated, right,
you're celebrated as the first fe male editor in chief.
But as a woman, you also have to own your
power and say it's not just that I'm a female
(07:06):
which makes me important in this room or qualified or
great or excellent. You're like, I'm just excellent, right, I'm
often I often use this thing where I'm often called
on these days, like you know, twenty years later to
talk about women in hip hop, right, and people are
you know, I'm very very proud of that, I'm very
um every time. I'm very grateful when people come to
(07:27):
me and ask for my expert opinion. But if you
study the game, you'll see that a lot of times,
I'm rarely asked to speak on other issues. And as
a woman who has grown, you know, after twenty years
in her career and has so much more to offer,
I wonder about that why we're still stuck in this
(07:49):
place when we're looking for experts on certain things. Being
hip hop a very male dominated industry, right, I'm not
called upon for that. So it's just something I've analyzed
over the years and wondered about, because there are still
many hurdles that we need to overcome as women, absolutely,
and I think you know it's it's it's we're working
(08:09):
on like sort of expanding that myopic vision, like oh,
Kim only knows this thing, but no, Like, in order
for you to have achieved what you have achieved, it
has taken so much knowledge and years of expertise in
a lot of different domains, a lot of different domains.
But I think you know, being able to tell your
story um is helpful for that. So I understand you've
(08:29):
also written a book. I did I did. Back in
two thousand and eight, I wrote a book about my
time at the Source and that book was published with
Simon and Schuster. It was called Straight from the Source. Um.
That was a very transitional time in my career because
I was telling my own story. It was one of
the first times I took the power in my own
(08:51):
story and decided to write about myself. And that book,
UM was the beginning of my career even in publishing,
because I worked with a lot of people as even
sometimes a ghostwriter. Yeah, um, you know, so for I
know there's some secrets in there, so I wish please
still on Kim and then and then there's collaborations, right,
(09:12):
So people often come to me to tell their story
and I've been working with a few different people on
on those um on those projects as well. So in
that book, I know you shared a lot of gems
about the industry. Can you talk about some of the
major obstacles that you can recall over the course of
your career because I feel like, you know, we all
are reveling in success twenty years later, But let's talk
(09:35):
about some of the stumbling blocks that you mentioned. Well,
I talked a lot about the case that I filed
against the magazine at the time and against the owners
of the magazine. UM, it was a case that I
feel was a little ahead of its time when, for example,
hashtag me too became a thing. So, Kim, just give
(09:56):
give us a brief overview of the case in case
people haven't read the book or don't know the story,
and then we'll get into the obstacles piece, because I
think this is really important. So and you know, and too.
I was at the source from two thousand and two
thousand and five, and after I was let go, I
filed um a sexual harassment general discrimination deformation and UM,
(10:17):
I think I left out one claim of the book.
So there were four different claims when I found that
against the magazine and so in retaliation, that's what I
left out. Very important because I actually wanted the case
on defamation and retaliation. So that was the case that
was UM, you know, in federal court. And there are
a lot of complicated issues that many people don't even
(10:40):
understand to this day when we talk about a sexual
harassment claim O case like, that's still something that I think,
you know, people understand the general concept, but when you
get into the courtroom and the legalities and the procedural
issue and you have to deal with to be victorious
in such a claim. We are still fighting that fight.
(11:03):
So you know, when we see things like the hashtag
meto movement come out years later, that's a step in
the right direction, because I believe there is way more
power in the court of public opinion than I do
in you know, sometimes the court of law of the
United States. Yes, which is incredible because your background is
(11:23):
in law, so you were prepared, you know, when you
understand that mentality. And I don't know if that's that's
that's a really powerful statement what you've said, the court
of public opinion. It's um. It's something I believe because
of a lot of personal experiences in my own life.
You know, I've seen the power of the media. I've
worked in media, um, and then I fought battles in
(11:46):
the court system. And I'll tell you my experience is
that people will are more concerned about their behavior when
there's a light shining on them. Right. So when you
you know, you really have a lot of power. That's
why I said in the beginning of this interview, there's
so much power in our story because our stories that
(12:08):
are out there really more even empowering there. And you know,
if you go fight a case in court you don't
have the right attorney, you know, you have no wins.
It doesn't matter what the facts of the case are.
You gotta be able to navigate the system. UM. So
that's why a lot of times, having you know, that
court of public opinion and having that media play um
(12:30):
can be really helpful. And that's why I take my
role in media so seriously because I understand how much
power comes along with that, of course, and just having
allies that can give a voice to those who perhaps
you know, don't have all that light shining on them.
Aren't the celebrities that can, you know, have a whole
pr team. And I think that's the beauty of what
(12:50):
journal the heart of essence of what journalism and telling
and storytelling really is true for sure. So Kim, what's
next for you now? Well, I think I'm really focused
now and it's great that we started off I think
by talking about entrepreneurialism to build my own brand in
a way that I've never really focused on, you know,
(13:13):
um for a long time. And and look, I'll say
this because I'm a mother of three I'm divorced, and
for a long time I was chasing checks and we
all get caught up in this check chasing um phenomenon
right where you just have to go because you have
bills to pay, you have responsibilities. You know, I have
a house. I'm taking care of that. There's a lot
(13:34):
of of um, you know, just bills that come along
with that. But really building um myself as a business.
And in that being said, I'm proud to say, even
as an executive producer, how I started my own production
company and even though it is not doesn't have the
(13:55):
infrastructure as another big production company, what I do is
loan out my services. So you know, it's it's learning
how to market yourself so that you're working for yourself.
Oh I love that, And I think that's a really
important lesson because you know, you said something, you've had
this career in television. You have all this intellectual knowledge
(14:16):
and property that you built up your own, and how
do you turn that into a brand so that you
can optimize that. So tell us some of the key
points of how you've done that, because even you said,
you're like, You're like, I might not be the biggest
production company out there, but how do you monetize that
so it doesn't just feel like you're chasing checks and
you're building a brand. I think that's a great question.
(14:38):
And I you know, I'm proud to say that I'm
from the Bronx. And I didn't know these things until
I went and actually had to go through it. Right
when I file file to become an LLC back in
I don't know, maybe five or six years ago as
a production company. I did that for text reasons, right.
(14:59):
I didn't scan you know. You know, someone was like,
you know, you won't get taxed if you you know,
if you get paid as an LLC. I'm like, I'm
gonna say, I'm gonna get all this money. So I
had to learn how to do that as a business.
I had to learn how to work as a business,
right as an individual. So I found my LLC and
(15:21):
then the accounting was different, right, So like once you
do that and you go sit with your accountant, now
you have to be on top of everything, so every
little expenditure, right, And and although I was good at
math in school, I never wanted to do this stuff, right,
I never wanted to learn about taxes. To me, it
was I was so boring, But you have to learn
(15:44):
all of these different things, and you have to treat
yourself as a business. And that has been a learning
lesson for me. Like, you know, the first year that
I did that those taxes, I said to myself, why
am I paying an accountant? This is crazy, Like I
feel like I'm doing everything. But it taught me because
the accountant can't do everything without you being able to say,
(16:06):
I spent money on this and this, and this is
what it was for. And I love that you say
this because this is the minutia of being an entrepreneur
and owning your own business. Everyone thinks, okay, there's somebody
else out there that's gonna do it, but really, like
the magic is in the details. If you understand your
own business, if you sit there and you're like, listen,
I understand the tax structures, I understand how I spent
(16:29):
this money and how I can write this off. It's
really you at the end of the day, like you
are the magic. And knowing that is also empowering, right
once you understand like, okay, wait, no, I am a
business because I don't work for a company. I work
for myself. I'm going from show to show. So every
time I go to a different show, I'm with a
(16:49):
different production company, So I have to figure out how
to make that, you know, how to monetize myself and
my services. Okay, so Buck Magazines Television Production, tell us
some of the exciting projects you're working on now under
this amazing brand of Kim Thank you. It's it's exciting
(17:11):
for me, and it's also um concerning. Sometimes I think, like,
what can I say? Because I do have clients as
even a media consultant, right, so I'm like, wait, can
I say that I work with that person? But then
when they publicly say it, I'm like, cool, it's out there. Yeah,
Like it's out there so that I could talk about it.
So um. One of the book projects that I'm really
proud of working on is telling this Boxy Brown story.
(17:35):
So I've been working with her on that and I
know a lot of people anticipate that because everybody wants
to know the ins and outs of her story, and
she has not talked about it, and so, you know,
for for me, and it wasn't until you know, this
has been a long time coming. It wasn't until Foxy
said on her Instagram she put it out there, I
(17:55):
was like, okay, I can you know I can say
that I was able to do that, you know. Um.
I also just finished a project with loon Um for
his book that's coming out on Simon and Schuster next year,
so we're like in the editing phase of that. And
these are stories that are very powerful. I don't know
how many people are familiar with his story and you
(18:16):
know him going to jail or him converting to Islam,
and you know where he is now after a career
in entertainment as a bad boy artist. So, um, we
just finished. I don't want to say finished because we're
still working on it, but we're finishing up that project
as well. Those are the book projects. I have a
couple of shows and development, and I can't talk about
those because all of that stuff is ND. We're gonna
(18:39):
stay tuned though it keeps us on, it keeps I
also work with some high profile artists that that stuff
is NDA. So I never want to say that, but
you know, um, I think you know, just as someone
who's been in media for a long time, to be
valued by people who are at a certain level to
pay peop for my services as a media expert, that
(19:02):
is also been something that has been empowering for me.
So many of our money moves. Audience is interested in
journalism and media, but the industry has changed tremendously over
the last decade. Social media opens the door for so
many to be journalistic and create content and be creatives
in their own rights and respects. Do you think that
in some sense it has ruined the industry or opened
(19:25):
it up for more success. I think it's opened it
up for more success. And I think there are people
who haven't necessarily figured out how to transition. Um. And
that's been hard, right, because you have to change with
the times and you have to reinvent yourself, right, that's
just a rule of the game. So, Um, it's been challenging,
(19:48):
I think for people who come from a specific background
where the industry was a certain way for journalists. Right
now you're going direct to consumer. You're going direct to
your reader immediately with the click of a button. Um,
So you really have to figure out how to monetize that.
(20:09):
Journalists need to understand and writers and content creators, right,
It's it's not all the same thing. Um. Those people
need to understand their value when they are being asked
to create content or to write or to report, because
I think in this game there's become it's become so
(20:33):
um just flooded with talent that now it's really hard
to separate the different areas and streams of income. That's
a great point because a TikTok creator is not the
same as a journalist. It's not the same as someone
who's writing for major publications. But at the same time,
there's a lot of different outlets where you can go
(20:54):
to and you can get incredible content that's created by
you know, brilliant creatives. So it's it's it's hard to
navigate this whole industry right now. It's really hard, and
especially because now the lines are very blurred. So even
a TikTok creator might want to interview another artist or
TikTok creator, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing
(21:18):
is journalism, right, So it depends they're creating content, and
there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same. It's a
difference with blogging and reporting, right. So a lot of
blogs are very very successful, um and they provide a
specific service, right, entertainment, And so we know that blogging
(21:40):
and certain blogs are different than necessarily media outlets and
news sources, So we just have to as users understand
the difference between UM those forms of content. So let's
dig into journalism in particular, because I don't know if
I'm wrong to say this, it does feel like a
more elevated form of media and information delivery. And we've
(22:04):
had so much banter back and forth about fake news
and who's qualified to say which, And I think you're
the perfect person to sort of give some insight on
to this sort of upper echelon of media and content.
What's the best way for an up and coming writer
to get their foot in the door these days when
it comes to journalism in terms of actual print media,
(22:24):
you know, or even network television as well. Well. I
do believe that because there are so many people doing
the same things and looking and looking for the same
opportunities that building your own building yourself is very valuable
to be building your own brand, right, building your own brand. So,
(22:45):
you know, I've seen a lot of even reputable media
outlets look for talent based on UM their following, right,
So even though you know they might have the skills
of a journalist or maybe a little bit more green,
UM media outlets really value the community they build around them.
(23:08):
So I think it's important to make sure you understand
that as a journalist because if you're a very strong journalist,
and I feel like our community is getting extremely savvy
now knowing the difference between fake news and real news
right now, you know, especially after the COVID nineteen pandemic,
right you can't believe anything you read. You've got to
(23:30):
do your research. And I'm very big on research. Is
something that I think law school has taught me going
and doing my homework right. So it's not about one source,
even if that source is reputable. I'm gonna look at
a variety of different sources to be able to formulate
my own educated opinion and put it out there. I
love that. And you know, something you also said earlier
really resonated. It's it's the authenticities. You're trying to build
(23:53):
a community. You're trying to get people to follow you,
and they really want to follow you for what you
have to offer. So, like you know, you might not
be the TikTok person who can pull together the best
dances while interviewing, like Barack Obama. So if you be yourself,
people gravitate to that and That's how I think you
really build strong community and connections where people will come
back to see what you have to say. Absolutely, I
(24:13):
feel like it's really important for your community around you
to believe what you're saying. So the more authentic you are,
the more valuable the content is to your community. To
your community, well said Kim. I'm also very fascinated by
the publishing industry and how that's sort of changing. And
you've made a great point where you've sort of started
(24:35):
your own company. You're out there, you're getting contracts to
do ghostwriting and help others publish their books. Can you
talk a little bit more about how you've been able
to be successful in this industry and what it looks
like moving forward. Well, I think what we've heard a
lot um from people like myself is that relationships are currency, right,
(24:57):
so you have to understand the value of the relationships
that you have. Um A lot of the publishing deals
and even media consultant deals that I have are based
on trust between myself and the person that I'm working with.
So just like you know, I, I know we talked
a little bit about ghostwriting before, right, You've got to
(25:18):
it's a different skill and you've got to understand what
it is. You can't approach it as a journalist. You've
got to speak. You know, you can use your journalist skills,
but you're really connecting with a specific person and doing
your best to try to tell that person's story in
their own voice. And that's important to understand the difference. Right. So,
(25:41):
like if I go in and you know, I interview
a celebrity for their book, I should not approach that
interview the same way I approach it if I were
writing a story on them, Right, I have to understand
what their struggle is and what story they want to tell. Um.
And then you use your journalist skills to be able
(26:04):
to offer advice. Right, So you want to be able
to say, well, I think the audience would be interested
in hearing this, so have you given any thought to
wanting that to be a part of your story? Right?
So there's a little bit of finesse that goes in
there also, And you know, I think this is one
of the things that people understand. Everyone has their secret sauce,
their superpower, their secret talent. Yours was in music, but
(26:25):
you know the same could be said for someone who
might have been you know, I was a nurse for years, Like,
it probably would not behoove me to go after someone
in the music industry and be like, I want to
tell your story, but perhaps there's someone in the medical
industry that wants to go to write a book. So like,
I think it's once people tap into what they're superpower is,
then it becomes much easier to tell those stories and
(26:47):
you know, pursue careers in those pasts as well. Agreed,
And I always remember, right I got into the business
and I started writing about music, I was a fan
of music. Music is therapy. It's still something I'm very
big on. I listened to, It's still something that I've
instilled in my children. So that is always going to
be a part of me, and that has helped me
(27:09):
in my writing understanding that it started with the music,
so I can connect, especially when I work um with
artists on telling their stories. All right, can you continue
to drop all sorts of gems for us, But as
we head out of this interview, can you please give
us a couple more tips and tricks that you can
think of for aspiring content creators, writers, journalists to sort
(27:33):
of elevate and take their career to the next level,
whether it's book deals, publishing, what are some of the
last tips that you want to take us out with? Sure?
And as a writer, what I've realized that there are
tools out there that I use no matter whether it's
in television, working with specific artists on the media, consulting
(27:54):
end or writing books. UM start with a proposal, right,
So times that proposal could be if it's for a book,
you go out and get a sample book proposal and
you put that together. A lot of times in television production, right,
people want to tell their stories visually, so you do
a deck and so you build that deck. You're working
(28:14):
with people to execute their vision, so you do that.
So you use specific tools. Sometimes it can be even
as simple as a one sheet that organizes your thoughts
and you send to people so that you have that
down on paper when you're meeting, because you know, we
can talk all day. But then when you leave that conversation,
you want your client or your partner to be able
(28:37):
to take something that's tangible, think about it, read it
and respond. And you know, me with the law school background,
it's like everything in writing, please, yeah, everything in writing,
you know, And I think that's becoming a lost art.
And it's funny because we're talking about journalism writing, but like,
those are your calling cards and you know that that
I think also helps to build relationships because you know
that person might take that one pager put it aside,
(28:58):
but they find it a month later and they're like, Ah,
this is perfect, I need this now put it in writing.
Make your decks, make them beautiful, make them pretty, and
leave a great impression. I love that, Kim. That's great advice.
And it was a pleasure speaking with you today. I
always look forward to speaking with other powerful women of
color where we can just share, build on the strength
of our community, and learn from one another. So thank
(29:19):
you so much for joining us today and spending time
and telling us your story and of course your words
of wisdom. Thank you, thank you for having me. Thanks Kim,
and thank you Money Movers for joining us. We'll be
back with more on the Money Moves Podcast. Thank you
so much for tuning in Money Moves audience. If you
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(29:41):
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Hey, money Movers, Welcome back to Money Moves, the daily
podcast determined to give you the keys to the Kingdom
of financial stability, wealth and abundance. Welcome money Movers for
another episode of the Money Moves Podcast powered by Greenwood.
(00:23):
Our expert today is Puerto Rican journalist, writer, author, TV producer,
and reality TV personality Straight from the Bronx b K
New York. She became the first female editor in chief
of The Source magazine in two thousand and two, and
it was under her leadership that the magazine boasted two
of its highest selling issues to date. She has served
(00:45):
as a writer, producer, and executive editor and on air
talent for b ET and you may remember seeing her
alongside Angela Yee on the v H one reality series
The Gossip Game, named among the New York Post Top
twenty five most influential Tina's in New York. Money Moves.
Let's welcome Kim Osorio to the podcast. Hi Kim, and
(01:07):
welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to cyber see
you here today. Welcome to the Money Moves Podcast. Hey Daniel,
thank you for having me so it is super great
to have you with us, and you have had a
long and illustrious career, and I'm really excited to share
this with our listeners. One of the things that we
really love about our show is being able to set
(01:27):
out pathways and roadways for others to follow in the
success of incredible entrepreneurs and female boss women like yourself. So,
can you start off by telling us a little bit
about how you got into the journalism and entertainment industry. Sure,
um So, I've been in the game for I like
to call it a game. I don't know why. I
(01:49):
love I've been I've been in the business for um
over twenty years. I got into entertainment as a writer
of Most people know me from my career as the
editor chief of the Source magazine um So. I started
writing just documenting hip hop culture in the nineties. It
was something that I had grown up on, something that
(02:09):
I come to love, and I really realized I could
find a career in it. Um I actually went to
law school to be a law So that was Yeah,
when you're when you're coming up, you know, kind of
uh in the Bronx like myself, and you're going to
school and you're following a certain path, there are not
a lot of options if you don't have the right
(02:32):
mentors to show you what's out. So for me, I
just always had a passion for the law. I was
interested in it, and I went to law school. But
it really honed my skills as a writer, and I
think it helped me when I got out of law
school and started to write on my path, UM, just
as a as a writer and then ultimately as a
(02:53):
storyteller and production. So I work now in television production
UM as an executive produce sir, And there have been
so many things, UM I've done along the path, but
it's really based in storytelling. I love that. And you
know what I think is so important about this, and
I talk about this all the time, Now that we
are telling our own stories, we are now looking back
(03:15):
and we're being able to be the ones who are
at the top of the food chain in entertainment, in journalism,
and we're telling the stories of black women, hip hop
and our culture, and we're now sort of driving those
engines and trains. And I think that is so important
because this is how we then set down tracks for
like future generations to see how we did this. In
(03:35):
your incredible, incredible career, UM, you've written several books, You've
produced many television shows talk about, you know, some of
the pivotal points that really helped you get your foot
in the door and anchor your success. I would say,
you know, there were a lot of people that helped
me and that recognized my talent as a writer. Um.
(03:56):
But it's awesome because as a writer, I've always been
able to put myself into the story, and we've learned
as journalists to keep ourselves out. So there's like a really,
I guess, um sneaky way that you can do it. Um.
(04:16):
The more that I've done it, the more passionate I've
become about the subject matter that I'm writing about. And
I think it's really helped me so as I navigate
different areas of life that intersects with the storytelling that
I'm doing, and I think that's something that's really fueled
(04:37):
UM my work even up until this day. So it
go back to the nineties and everything that you know
we were doing back then covering the culture. It was
I was really living in the culture. So it's learning
how to document that tell the story, injecting yourself but
still maintaining that integrity as a journalist. And I think
(04:58):
that's what really shines in resonate resonates right, that authenticity
and when you go back to the days of the source, right,
the source was driving and telling our culture. And you know,
if you just are able to take a step back
and really just be like, I'm telling my story, I'm
telling the story of all the females, the men beside
me that live this life. I think that's sort of
testament to why you were part of, you know, such
(05:21):
a revolutionary time in magazine and magazine culture. It's pretty incredible.
Thank you, And you know, I think we need to
recognize the value in our own stories. If you watch Netflix, Hulu,
whatever it is that you choose to watch, you'll see
how we're driving the narratives um in television, you know,
(05:42):
on the internet, social media. Uh. And if we understand
our power, I think that can help us maximize our success.
That is so true. And you know, I just want
everyone to understand, like what a powerful force you are
because you were one of the first women in history
in the history of the magazine to serve as editor
in chief. Like that's a huge honor and it's a
(06:04):
huge role to have taken on. What was that like
and did you feel celebrated and powerful and like you
made it at that time? It was, it was very empowering.
I talk a lot about women in UM, you know,
positions like the one that I held back then. I
was the first editor in chief of the Source magazine
(06:26):
female editor in chief sack. Then I was the first
female editor in chief of the Source magazine. But I
wasn't the first female editor, right, And it's important to
note that there were many who came before me, and
they achieved certain levels in their respective areas, right, whether
(06:46):
it was another magazine, whether it was a different UM
department of the magazine, they reached those heights. And a
lot of times when you get to that that's celebrated, right,
you're celebrated as the first fe male editor in chief.
But as a woman, you also have to own your
power and say it's not just that I'm a female
(07:06):
which makes me important in this room or qualified or
great or excellent. You're like, I'm just excellent, right, I'm
often I often use this thing where I'm often called
on these days, like you know, twenty years later to
talk about women in hip hop, right, and people are
you know, I'm very very proud of that, I'm very
um every time. I'm very grateful when people come to
(07:27):
me and ask for my expert opinion. But if you
study the game, you'll see that a lot of times,
I'm rarely asked to speak on other issues. And as
a woman who has grown, you know, after twenty years
in her career and has so much more to offer,
I wonder about that why we're still stuck in this
(07:49):
place when we're looking for experts on certain things. Being
hip hop a very male dominated industry, right, I'm not
called upon for that. So it's just something I've analyzed
over the years and wondered about, because there are still
many hurdles that we need to overcome as women, absolutely,
and I think you know it's it's it's we're working
(08:09):
on like sort of expanding that myopic vision, like oh,
Kim only knows this thing, but no, Like, in order
for you to have achieved what you have achieved, it
has taken so much knowledge and years of expertise in
a lot of different domains, a lot of different domains.
But I think you know, being able to tell your
story um is helpful for that. So I understand you've
(08:29):
also written a book. I did I did. Back in
two thousand and eight, I wrote a book about my
time at the Source and that book was published with
Simon and Schuster. It was called Straight from the Source. Um.
That was a very transitional time in my career because
I was telling my own story. It was one of
the first times I took the power in my own
(08:51):
story and decided to write about myself. And that book,
UM was the beginning of my career even in publishing,
because I worked with a lot of people as even
sometimes a ghostwriter. Yeah, um, you know, so for I
know there's some secrets in there, so I wish please
still on Kim and then and then there's collaborations, right,
(09:12):
So people often come to me to tell their story
and I've been working with a few different people on
on those um on those projects as well. So in
that book, I know you shared a lot of gems
about the industry. Can you talk about some of the
major obstacles that you can recall over the course of
your career because I feel like, you know, we all
are reveling in success twenty years later, But let's talk
(09:35):
about some of the stumbling blocks that you mentioned. Well,
I talked a lot about the case that I filed
against the magazine at the time and against the owners
of the magazine. UM, it was a case that I
feel was a little ahead of its time when, for example,
hashtag me too became a thing. So, Kim, just give
(09:56):
give us a brief overview of the case in case
people haven't read the book or don't know the story,
and then we'll get into the obstacles piece, because I
think this is really important. So and you know, and too.
I was at the source from two thousand and two
thousand and five, and after I was let go, I
filed um a sexual harassment general discrimination deformation and UM,
(10:17):
I think I left out one claim of the book.
So there were four different claims when I found that
against the magazine and so in retaliation, that's what I
left out. Very important because I actually wanted the case
on defamation and retaliation. So that was the case that
was UM, you know, in federal court. And there are
a lot of complicated issues that many people don't even
(10:40):
understand to this day when we talk about a sexual
harassment claim O case like, that's still something that I think,
you know, people understand the general concept, but when you
get into the courtroom and the legalities and the procedural
issue and you have to deal with to be victorious
in such a claim. We are still fighting that fight.
(11:03):
So you know, when we see things like the hashtag
meto movement come out years later, that's a step in
the right direction, because I believe there is way more
power in the court of public opinion than I do
in you know, sometimes the court of law of the
United States. Yes, which is incredible because your background is
(11:23):
in law, so you were prepared, you know, when you
understand that mentality. And I don't know if that's that's
that's a really powerful statement what you've said, the court
of public opinion. It's um. It's something I believe because
of a lot of personal experiences in my own life.
You know, I've seen the power of the media. I've
worked in media, um, and then I fought battles in
(11:46):
the court system. And I'll tell you my experience is
that people will are more concerned about their behavior when
there's a light shining on them. Right. So when you
you know, you really have a lot of power. That's
why I said in the beginning of this interview, there's
so much power in our story because our stories that
(12:08):
are out there really more even empowering there. And you know,
if you go fight a case in court you don't
have the right attorney, you know, you have no wins.
It doesn't matter what the facts of the case are.
You gotta be able to navigate the system. UM. So
that's why a lot of times, having you know, that
court of public opinion and having that media play um
(12:30):
can be really helpful. And that's why I take my
role in media so seriously because I understand how much
power comes along with that, of course, and just having
allies that can give a voice to those who perhaps
you know, don't have all that light shining on them.
Aren't the celebrities that can, you know, have a whole
pr team. And I think that's the beauty of what
(12:50):
journal the heart of essence of what journalism and telling
and storytelling really is true for sure. So Kim, what's
next for you now? Well, I think I'm really focused
now and it's great that we started off I think
by talking about entrepreneurialism to build my own brand in
a way that I've never really focused on, you know,
(13:13):
um for a long time. And and look, I'll say
this because I'm a mother of three I'm divorced, and
for a long time I was chasing checks and we
all get caught up in this check chasing um phenomenon
right where you just have to go because you have
bills to pay, you have responsibilities. You know, I have
a house. I'm taking care of that. There's a lot
(13:34):
of of um, you know, just bills that come along
with that. But really building um myself as a business.
And in that being said, I'm proud to say, even
as an executive producer, how I started my own production
company and even though it is not doesn't have the
(13:55):
infrastructure as another big production company, what I do is
loan out my services. So you know, it's it's learning
how to market yourself so that you're working for yourself.
Oh I love that, And I think that's a really
important lesson because you know, you said something, you've had
this career in television. You have all this intellectual knowledge
(14:16):
and property that you built up your own, and how
do you turn that into a brand so that you
can optimize that. So tell us some of the key
points of how you've done that, because even you said,
you're like, You're like, I might not be the biggest
production company out there, but how do you monetize that
so it doesn't just feel like you're chasing checks and
you're building a brand. I think that's a great question.
(14:38):
And I you know, I'm proud to say that I'm
from the Bronx. And I didn't know these things until
I went and actually had to go through it. Right
when I file file to become an LLC back in
I don't know, maybe five or six years ago as
a production company. I did that for text reasons, right.
(14:59):
I didn't scan you know. You know, someone was like,
you know, you won't get taxed if you you know,
if you get paid as an LLC. I'm like, I'm
gonna say, I'm gonna get all this money. So I
had to learn how to do that as a business.
I had to learn how to work as a business,
right as an individual. So I found my LLC and
(15:21):
then the accounting was different, right, So like once you
do that and you go sit with your accountant, now
you have to be on top of everything, so every
little expenditure, right, And and although I was good at
math in school, I never wanted to do this stuff, right,
I never wanted to learn about taxes. To me, it
was I was so boring, But you have to learn
(15:44):
all of these different things, and you have to treat
yourself as a business. And that has been a learning
lesson for me. Like, you know, the first year that
I did that those taxes, I said to myself, why
am I paying an accountant? This is crazy, Like I
feel like I'm doing everything. But it taught me because
the accountant can't do everything without you being able to say,
(16:06):
I spent money on this and this, and this is
what it was for. And I love that you say
this because this is the minutia of being an entrepreneur
and owning your own business. Everyone thinks, okay, there's somebody
else out there that's gonna do it, but really, like
the magic is in the details. If you understand your
own business, if you sit there and you're like, listen,
I understand the tax structures, I understand how I spent
(16:29):
this money and how I can write this off. It's
really you at the end of the day, like you
are the magic. And knowing that is also empowering, right
once you understand like, okay, wait, no, I am a
business because I don't work for a company. I work
for myself. I'm going from show to show. So every
time I go to a different show, I'm with a
(16:49):
different production company, So I have to figure out how
to make that, you know, how to monetize myself and
my services. Okay, so Buck Magazines Television Production, tell us
some of the exciting projects you're working on now under
this amazing brand of Kim Thank you. It's it's exciting
(17:11):
for me, and it's also um concerning. Sometimes I think, like,
what can I say? Because I do have clients as
even a media consultant, right, so I'm like, wait, can
I say that I work with that person? But then
when they publicly say it, I'm like, cool, it's out there. Yeah,
Like it's out there so that I could talk about it.
So um. One of the book projects that I'm really
proud of working on is telling this Boxy Brown story.
(17:35):
So I've been working with her on that and I
know a lot of people anticipate that because everybody wants
to know the ins and outs of her story, and
she has not talked about it, and so, you know,
for for me, and it wasn't until you know, this
has been a long time coming. It wasn't until Foxy
said on her Instagram she put it out there, I
(17:55):
was like, okay, I can you know I can say
that I was able to do that, you know. Um.
I also just finished a project with loon Um for
his book that's coming out on Simon and Schuster next year,
so we're like in the editing phase of that. And
these are stories that are very powerful. I don't know
how many people are familiar with his story and you
(18:16):
know him going to jail or him converting to Islam,
and you know where he is now after a career
in entertainment as a bad boy artist. So, um, we
just finished. I don't want to say finished because we're
still working on it, but we're finishing up that project
as well. Those are the book projects. I have a
couple of shows and development, and I can't talk about
those because all of that stuff is ND. We're gonna
(18:39):
stay tuned though it keeps us on, it keeps I
also work with some high profile artists that that stuff
is NDA. So I never want to say that, but
you know, um, I think you know, just as someone
who's been in media for a long time, to be
valued by people who are at a certain level to
pay peop for my services as a media expert, that
(19:02):
is also been something that has been empowering for me.
So many of our money moves. Audience is interested in
journalism and media, but the industry has changed tremendously over
the last decade. Social media opens the door for so
many to be journalistic and create content and be creatives
in their own rights and respects. Do you think that
in some sense it has ruined the industry or opened
(19:25):
it up for more success. I think it's opened it
up for more success. And I think there are people
who haven't necessarily figured out how to transition. Um. And
that's been hard, right, because you have to change with
the times and you have to reinvent yourself, right, that's
just a rule of the game. So, Um, it's been challenging,
(19:48):
I think for people who come from a specific background
where the industry was a certain way for journalists. Right
now you're going direct to consumer. You're going direct to
your reader immediately with the click of a button. Um,
So you really have to figure out how to monetize that.
(20:09):
Journalists need to understand and writers and content creators, right,
It's it's not all the same thing. Um. Those people
need to understand their value when they are being asked
to create content or to write or to report, because
I think in this game there's become it's become so
(20:33):
um just flooded with talent that now it's really hard
to separate the different areas and streams of income. That's
a great point because a TikTok creator is not the
same as a journalist. It's not the same as someone
who's writing for major publications. But at the same time,
there's a lot of different outlets where you can go
(20:54):
to and you can get incredible content that's created by
you know, brilliant creatives. So it's it's it's hard to
navigate this whole industry right now. It's really hard, and
especially because now the lines are very blurred. So even
a TikTok creator might want to interview another artist or
TikTok creator, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're doing
(21:18):
is journalism, right, So it depends they're creating content, and
there's nothing wrong with that. It's the same. It's a
difference with blogging and reporting, right. So a lot of
blogs are very very successful, um and they provide a
specific service, right, entertainment, And so we know that blogging
(21:40):
and certain blogs are different than necessarily media outlets and
news sources, So we just have to as users understand
the difference between UM those forms of content. So let's
dig into journalism in particular, because I don't know if
I'm wrong to say this, it does feel like a
more elevated form of media and information delivery. And we've
(22:04):
had so much banter back and forth about fake news
and who's qualified to say which, And I think you're
the perfect person to sort of give some insight on
to this sort of upper echelon of media and content.
What's the best way for an up and coming writer
to get their foot in the door these days when
it comes to journalism in terms of actual print media,
(22:24):
you know, or even network television as well. Well. I
do believe that because there are so many people doing
the same things and looking and looking for the same
opportunities that building your own building yourself is very valuable
to be building your own brand, right, building your own brand. So,
(22:45):
you know, I've seen a lot of even reputable media
outlets look for talent based on UM their following, right,
So even though you know they might have the skills
of a journalist or maybe a little bit more green,
UM media outlets really value the community they build around them.
(23:08):
So I think it's important to make sure you understand
that as a journalist because if you're a very strong journalist,
and I feel like our community is getting extremely savvy
now knowing the difference between fake news and real news
right now, you know, especially after the COVID nineteen pandemic,
right you can't believe anything you read. You've got to
(23:30):
do your research. And I'm very big on research. Is
something that I think law school has taught me going
and doing my homework right. So it's not about one source,
even if that source is reputable. I'm gonna look at
a variety of different sources to be able to formulate
my own educated opinion and put it out there. I
love that. And you know, something you also said earlier
really resonated. It's it's the authenticities. You're trying to build
(23:53):
a community. You're trying to get people to follow you,
and they really want to follow you for what you
have to offer. So, like you know, you might not
be the TikTok person who can pull together the best
dances while interviewing, like Barack Obama. So if you be yourself,
people gravitate to that and That's how I think you
really build strong community and connections where people will come
back to see what you have to say. Absolutely, I
(24:13):
feel like it's really important for your community around you
to believe what you're saying. So the more authentic you are,
the more valuable the content is to your community. To
your community, well said Kim. I'm also very fascinated by
the publishing industry and how that's sort of changing. And
you've made a great point where you've sort of started
(24:35):
your own company. You're out there, you're getting contracts to
do ghostwriting and help others publish their books. Can you
talk a little bit more about how you've been able
to be successful in this industry and what it looks
like moving forward. Well, I think what we've heard a
lot um from people like myself is that relationships are currency, right,
(24:57):
so you have to understand the value of the relationships
that you have. Um A lot of the publishing deals
and even media consultant deals that I have are based
on trust between myself and the person that I'm working with.
So just like you know, I, I know we talked
a little bit about ghostwriting before, right, You've got to
(25:18):
it's a different skill and you've got to understand what
it is. You can't approach it as a journalist. You've
got to speak. You know, you can use your journalist skills,
but you're really connecting with a specific person and doing
your best to try to tell that person's story in
their own voice. And that's important to understand the difference. Right. So,
(25:41):
like if I go in and you know, I interview
a celebrity for their book, I should not approach that
interview the same way I approach it if I were
writing a story on them, Right, I have to understand
what their struggle is and what story they want to tell. Um.
And then you use your journalist skills to be able
(26:04):
to offer advice. Right, So you want to be able
to say, well, I think the audience would be interested
in hearing this, so have you given any thought to
wanting that to be a part of your story? Right?
So there's a little bit of finesse that goes in
there also, And you know, I think this is one
of the things that people understand. Everyone has their secret sauce,
their superpower, their secret talent. Yours was in music, but
(26:25):
you know the same could be said for someone who
might have been you know, I was a nurse for years, Like,
it probably would not behoove me to go after someone
in the music industry and be like, I want to
tell your story, but perhaps there's someone in the medical
industry that wants to go to write a book. So like,
I think it's once people tap into what they're superpower is,
then it becomes much easier to tell those stories and
(26:47):
you know, pursue careers in those pasts as well. Agreed,
And I always remember, right I got into the business
and I started writing about music, I was a fan
of music. Music is therapy. It's still something I'm very
big on. I listened to, It's still something that I've
instilled in my children. So that is always going to
be a part of me, and that has helped me
(27:09):
in my writing understanding that it started with the music,
so I can connect, especially when I work um with
artists on telling their stories. All right, can you continue
to drop all sorts of gems for us, But as
we head out of this interview, can you please give
us a couple more tips and tricks that you can
think of for aspiring content creators, writers, journalists to sort
(27:33):
of elevate and take their career to the next level,
whether it's book deals, publishing, what are some of the
last tips that you want to take us out with? Sure?
And as a writer, what I've realized that there are
tools out there that I use no matter whether it's
in television, working with specific artists on the media, consulting
(27:54):
end or writing books. UM start with a proposal, right,
So times that proposal could be if it's for a book,
you go out and get a sample book proposal and
you put that together. A lot of times in television production, right,
people want to tell their stories visually, so you do
a deck and so you build that deck. You're working
(28:14):
with people to execute their vision, so you do that.
So you use specific tools. Sometimes it can be even
as simple as a one sheet that organizes your thoughts
and you send to people so that you have that
down on paper when you're meeting, because you know, we
can talk all day. But then when you leave that conversation,
you want your client or your partner to be able
(28:37):
to take something that's tangible, think about it, read it
and respond. And you know, me with the law school background,
it's like everything in writing, please, yeah, everything in writing,
you know, And I think that's becoming a lost art.
And it's funny because we're talking about journalism writing, but like,
those are your calling cards and you know that that
I think also helps to build relationships because you know
that person might take that one pager put it aside,
(28:58):
but they find it a month later and they're like, Ah,
this is perfect, I need this now put it in writing.
Make your decks, make them beautiful, make them pretty, and
leave a great impression. I love that, Kim. That's great advice.
And it was a pleasure speaking with you today. I
always look forward to speaking with other powerful women of
color where we can just share, build on the strength
of our community, and learn from one another. So thank
(29:19):
you so much for joining us today and spending time
and telling us your story and of course your words
of wisdom. Thank you, thank you for having me. Thanks Kim,
and thank you Money Movers for joining us. We'll be
back with more on the Money Moves Podcast. Thank you
so much for tuning in Money Moves audience. If you
want more or a recap of this episode, please go
to the bank Greenwood dot com and check out the
(29:41):
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