December 31, 2021 • 38 mins
Michael Santiago Render, better known by his stage name Killer Mike is a rapper, songwriter, actor, producer, business owner, and activist.
He sits in to discuss how he became the co-founder of Bank Greenwood, the importance of teaching financial literacy to young people, being part of Run the Jewels, and opening his barbershop Swag Shop.
In addition, the lessons learned from his grandparents, the value gained from mistakes, his motivation for business, giving back to your community, and his activist pursuits.
Host IG: @itstanyatime
Guest IG: @killermike
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Tanya Sam and welcome to the Money Moves Podcast
powered by Greenwood. Hey, money Movers, I'm Tanya Sam and
this is the Money Move Podcast powered by Greenwood. Right now,
there is no dancing around it. We have a big name,
(00:22):
a celeb in the house with us, a celeb and friend.
The name is Killer Mike, and the list of accomplishments
is endless. Where do I even begin to start, Killer Mike?
You were an artist and activist and entrepreneur. You own
multiple businesses. You're also a husband, a television producer, and
someone I am very proud to call a friend. But
(00:42):
let's break it down. You're busy. Is that fair to say? Yeah,
I'm a kid from the west south of Atlanta. I
grew up on car your um in the car your
highest community right on call your drive. I went to
Frederick Douglas High School and I have to call your
Ice Elementary and later went to More House. After a
year or More House, I left to pursue music. Yeah,
a record deal of the same year I would have graduated.
So the worst mistake I made was dropping out for music.
(01:04):
But with that said, music is speeding me well. Um,
I earned a Grammy I'm on a song called the
Whole World Without cast I went on a mixtape run
and built my own company, was on Grindtime, and for
the last eight years I've been in a group called
Run the Jewels, which is one of the most heavily
touring wrap groups in the world. We did about undred
and twenty three shows before COVID Close and next year
(01:26):
as Rage against the Machine reunites for a world to
or real be the Open. That's huge. The thing that
kills me about this is what a diverse list of
interests and you haven't even hit upon all of them.
So super happy to have you on the show today.
And I wouldn't dive in because you know, you talk
about your wrap, Africa, accolades, you talk about this. We
haven't even got to the business piece, but we're here
(01:47):
and we're talking about Greenwood. So I want to start
off by, you know, asking you what was it that
drew you to get involved with Greenwood. Well, I mean,
first of all, Um, Paul Judge is incredible in terms
of the tech world, so it made a lot of
sense when you know, you get a call from Paul
and Ryan Glover and say, hey, we want to have
food with you and talk about some stuff. You go,
(02:09):
you know, you're all right. It was one night to
the last night. But I'm just gonna be having lunch
of decent people hours and Um Ryan had built successful
companies that I saw Paul that built successful companies. But
and I was I was already in with them, ask
and getting a chance to talk to my friend and
mentor since I've been fifteen years old, Andy Young. And
when Andy told me how things similar to Greenwood have
(02:31):
been able to help. And when you say Andy, you
mean Ambassador Andy Young, who's really like a civil rights
and icon in the city of Atlanta. Yeah, and somebody
your audience should know. So if you if you hear
me say a name you don't know, it's important, go
google it, right Andy. It was not only a former
U S ambassadors former congressmen from Georgia. Um served in
Jimmy Jimmy Carter's administration, but most importantly into my direct life,
(02:54):
since all politics is local. He was the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia,
and provided an amazing example for people from my side
of town to aspire towards. He lived right in Southwest Atlanta.
I grew up on the West side, the bottom of
the Northwest side. UM went to Frederick Douglas. His son
went to my rival schoolmates vols On Store a partner.
(03:15):
So I believe still sharp and steel, and I believe
that black excellence creates more excellence, and that excellence is
better for the greater community. So I grew up in
a nonclave that was totally ran four by black people
and worked in symbioti symbiotic relationship with the with the
wider community. UM and he brought forty billion dollars into Atlanta,
(03:35):
eleven billion dollars of that went directly into the black community,
black businesses, and I'm not talking about charity's going business.
So when Andy, who classically wasn't a money guy, says,
I mean, Mike, this is valuable. And this is why
I was not only all in. I was all in
and also a friend to everybody who was doing it
because Andy has never done UM anything in my opinion,
(03:57):
that were diverse that would adversely a fense mark. Absolutely,
and most of the things that Andy Young had done
has helped my community. But I also think you've been
You're a perfect example of looking towards a generation before
you and being inspired to act upon it, because this
is nothing new for you. You've always been passionate about
talking about how to recirculate black and brown dollars with
(04:19):
inner communities. You've done television programs highlighting this. So you know,
it's like you took his torch and you were continuing
to carry it on, not just with Greenwood, but other
of your own independent activities. Can you tell us a
little bit more about those as well, and why this
resonates so clearly with you? Well, Man, I was definitely
mentor about Andy, but also people like Reverend James orange On,
(04:39):
Walter Cleveland, Uh, the late James Walt and Reverend Love
Averte Love are gone, but all these people remembers that
cel see all these people remember you know, local gradrooms organization.
So for me, I've been given a responsibility. You know,
Andy didn't pour all that into my cup for me
to just simply over my cup and then Richard take
care of myself. Um. I have businesses and the community. Um.
(05:01):
We have a brand called the Swag Shop, which is
a barbershop, but we do a heck of a lot
more in retail than we do the barbershop. So you
come get your haircut, but you. Also, I call it
Demand's Victoria's Secret, Right, You're going to Victorious Secret right.
As a man, I would go on Valentine's Day, her birthday,
and Christmas. My wife will go to Victory Tis every
week because she buys, she buys. So what we've done
(05:24):
in the barbershop is figure out how to get people
or how to get men to make us a point
of sale for everything, whether you need T shirts, whether
you need shape and bombs that stuff. So I've learned
a lot from growing the business. I learned to be patient.
I learned it takes time. I've learned that although you
may start to invest in your own capital, ultimately that's
not what you want to be doing. So this is
the way you go out and find capital. Um I
have as a creative had to retrain my brain for
(05:47):
how I look at things perspectively in matters of business.
So the creative side of my brain works as well
as it ever did. But I've had to grow and
mature from a business aspect. And that's why I really
value being in a circle of people like Bowl Paul
Lying because they don't tell you wrong, they just say
here's an alternative to do it. Here's an alternative. Till
you were usually you would go do a show, they
pay you a hundred hundred fifty you put in your pocket,
(06:11):
then you go put that into whatever business you want. Well,
now you don't get to do that. You get to
actually put your money to the side, shelter your money,
how you need to put some for your toimement. But
you build relationship with banks, you build relationship with credit
where now you can go get the credit you thought
to make the purchase so that that purchase can pay
for itself. And prime example is my wife and I,
um we rented out the spaces for our first two barbershops.
(06:34):
I'm like, man, we aren't going anywhere. It's been six
seven years. We always pay these people on time. Why
don't we get into buying the spaces? And this is
I mean, talk about this because this is so interesting
because you've gone from you know, a musical creative I
might say visionary genius in that sector to now entrepreneurship
and you're branching into all these other multiple strains of
income and real estate is one of the ones that
I think within our community people have such a huge
(06:56):
misconception about Number One, They're like renting is fine. The
best I should do is just pay my rent on time.
And you and Shape are brilliant people. And like, as
you said, you've learned a lot along the way. So
let's dive into this piece of like how your views
on how to you know, gain wealth in the real
estate market have sort of evolved and changed. Well, let
me give you this. My great grandparents, UM, one of
(07:18):
the children of people who are enslaved. They worked. And
I say this not on small you know, this is
the family mythical bology I've been told. No, I knew
my great grandparents. I knew my big daddy, Nathaniel Blackman.
I knew my big mom, true Zella Blacks beautiful. We
got shipped to their farm in Tuskegee, Alabama. We had
to cut sugar cane and we had to you know,
(07:39):
you had to go get the eggs onto the chicken.
You had to all you have to be self sustaining.
These people, um were wealthy because they left their children
acres of land from share cropping. They left their children
over twenty acres. I mean, that's just that story right there.
I mean I just want to share that to the
(08:00):
of these are share croppers, people who you know, grew
up in a time when they couldn't even own land,
but had the fourth sight to be like, if I
own this land, I can pass it down generation. And
here you are sitting here saying like they were wealthy,
like this happens to their community now. They didn't have
gaudy things. They weren't rich. My grandmother said for Christmas
they would get potato sack, draws and fruit, and my
(08:20):
grandfather says, sill, that was Christmas. It wasn't no Christmas
for me at all, because you were from a poor family.
But my grandparents were. My grant grandparents were wealthy because
the land that they left is still in our family.
And last year me and my sisters got our few
hundred dollars from the timber company that cuts down So
this land still feeds, it still does stuff for us,
(08:41):
and it will continue to stay in our the mouth
my grandparents homes that they all God blessed to dead,
my sisters and not all. I bought multiple um, commercial
and single family homes on the side of town I
was from, because fordable housing needs to be in Atlanta
and people who work in the city. My grandmother moved
to Atlanta nineteen fifty. She walked to nursing school, got
(09:01):
a nursing degree, walked back home every day, ended up
buying a house on the same street on the better side.
So I think, is that's a story that I have
to live up to. I have a responsibility to make
sure that even though I sing and dance for a living,
to not lose my fortune through selling my publishing. I
have a responsibility to maintain as much control over my
(09:22):
master's as possible. I have a responsibility to grow and
plant businesses while I'm here. And I have a greater
responsibility to make sure that I leave something for my
great grandchildren that that may or may not know me.
I was was that my daughter's um commencement speech yesterday
while I had heard as she graduated, and a Jamaican
woman gave the gave a speech and she said, my
(09:43):
great grandfather told my father, I'm planning this treat of
mangoals so that one day my great grandchildren will eat
from them. And this woman says, as I sat in
Jamaica eating mangoals, to my stomach was ready to burst,
I realized that I'm man. I've never met care enough
to leave something for me to nourish me, and that's
(10:06):
simply my motivation for business. I don't like getting up
during the meetings. My wife is better at that than me.
I don't often times like sitting through the numbers, but
I've learned that the numbers matter most in terms of
making sure everything is accounting for. But what I've learned
to love is knowing that the actions and the small
steps I take right now will benefit my grandchildren and
(10:29):
my grand say that. I love how you say that,
because sometimes it's tough. It's sometimes you know, it's not
stuff that we love. But if you focus on loving
the end result, all that doesn't matter. All that doesn't matter,
because we're eating from this mango tree until we are
like overflowing with abundance. So talk about if we go
back to the real estate piece. You know, you and
Shae had this revelation where you're like, we're renting. You know,
(10:50):
our forefathers are literally going no, no no um. I
feel like this this keys into the Greenwood piece a
lot and what we're really trying to do when Greenwood launches,
of being able to um afford people the ability to
get real estate loans. Even though you know you're a
famous celebrity, talk about your struggles, um and someone in
the banking relationships and being able to get loans. Well,
(11:14):
it's about having the relationships. So banks scene took to
to to most people, banks are big, huge faceless corporation. UM.
Black banks in my Black Banking initiative six seven years
ago really show Black people that know banks are still
something very localized. Citizens Trust Bank was my first bank account.
Um to this day, I know I keep a least
(11:35):
a couple hundred thousand dollars with them. You know, it's
for for for you know, just just because they were
the first, So I'm not always going to keep somebodey there. Um.
They taught me the discipline of banking, as my grandmother
taught me to balance the check book. It was a
citizens Trust tech book out. You know. She made sure
that I knew the importance of bank banking. But beyond that,
even local banking. A lot of times you have local
banks and you have banks that tilt and understand communities.
(11:57):
Greenwood is a bank that understands community. So as I
opened barbershops, most big banks, most banks that are not
culturally where I'm from, are not gonna understand the necessity
of a barbershop because people who aren't African, aren't a
part of the African diaspora, don't get their haircut every week.
Most black men in the desper're gonna get the haircut
(12:17):
one every two weeks. So you have a residual customer coming.
But then they'll look at it and stay, well, you're
doing bluefrint. You aren't doing commission. So then you're saying, okay,
well I need to switch to commissions. I'll take a
bigger portion of me and the barber's essentially become partners.
And you say yourself, okay, but I'm still only making
um this amount poor months, in this amount per year.
Then you have the revelation that as a man, I
don't want to go in the beauty store to buy
(12:38):
my brush. I need beard oil, man, I need some
T shirts to match these Jordan's. I need a lighter,
I need a bottle offener, And I just simply said
all the stuff. It's inherent to our culture. You don't
have to explain this when you sit in front of
you know, the founders of because they're Black mount absolutely
so when I tell show them the numbers, then this
(12:58):
is what we've done over the course of the last
nine three hundred sixty five days. It turns it into
a radically different conversation with any bank, but especially with
the bank that has to practicality to understand your community
where it's coming from. I tell people all the time, churches,
looking stories and barbershops don't go out of business in
the black community. Beauty shops as well, just don't because
if you're good, you stand by what you do. You
(13:19):
have an integrity there. Everything else is the alcohol in Jesus.
But I really think that we have I really think
we have the ability to grow. So I want I
am one of the businesses that I wish to help.
And in regards to renting in real estate, um, we
still rent two spaces, you know. But what I start
seeing was things like one to three door strip malls
(13:39):
come up for sale. So Shandon and I said, so
why don't we start targeting those and we become the landlords.
While other people who are in our position want small
business owners. We know you can make eight hundred to
twelve hundred dollars a month rent. You know you're gonna
make that rent, and it gives your time to really
launch and grow your business before you jump into twenty three,
twenty five and three thousand dollar a month, you know.
(14:00):
And so now we get an opportunity to not only
bass faces to put out barbershops and then pay ourselves rent,
but to help other entrepreneurs. Yeah, exactly. And my wife
is a very brilliant She is an incredible force. And
the two of you are incredibly dynamic duo together, and
Atlanta is so happy to have you because what you're
doing is the epitome of you know, putting your money
(14:22):
where your mouth is. You're helping to recirculate the dollars.
You're giving opportunity to entrepreneurs that otherwise would have not
been able to start their business, to feed their families
and then therefore create generational wealth. So Mike, tell me,
you know, you've changed the trajectory of your career from
singing and dancing and now you've taken this leap into entrepreneurship.
Tell our Money Loves Audience, um some of the advice
(14:45):
to what it takes to get started and be successful
in entrepreneurship and also taking a leap into different areas
of career changes. So I'm in a very successful rap
group that gets treated as a rock group. So we
we tour rock bands. We do how to shelves a
year make a lot of money, you know, all right
With that said, I never gave up on solo wrap.
(15:05):
So I took some time and you know, recording some
cool things that got placed in some sinks and stuff
that brought a little more money in. But I didn't
need the money and I didn't need a Bentley, you know,
I like my hell cat. Um. What I decided to
do was put away more money for our stocks and buns,
put away more money for our time and fund but
again to become landlords, to find real estate that's in
that middle area, whether it's affordable apartments that are coming
(15:28):
into Atlanta. We're in part of investment group on whether
it is um strip malls to do that. But I
learned this stuff not from just the hugely successful people
I knew, right, I learned this stuff from my grandparents.
I learned that you live below your means. I learned
that you and your partner have a true partnership and
you have full disclosure and transparency in terms of money.
(15:50):
I lived my life the exact same way my grandfather does,
my grandmother knew what he made in the check came
on Fridays. My wife knows when the checks coming and
win his landing. Right. We discussed what we're doing with checks.
That gets done and we proceed because we have a
trajectory we're pointing to it. I don't want to have
to work in five years. I don't want my wife
to ever have to work for another man. I don't.
(16:11):
The only way we do that is work incredibly hard. Now,
for people who want to be entrepreneurs, if you don't
like working forty hours a week for someone else, then
understand you're gonna work a hundred and fifty. We say
that again, I don't like working forty hours of someone else,
get prepared to work one fifty for yourself. You're gonna
be working so hard you're gonna thank you whipping y'all.
(16:33):
I mean, that is the truth. You know, this idea
of this misnomer that you know, if you're an entrepreneur
you're literally on the beach working five hours a day
while everybody else it's just not true. You will never
be successful like that. And I didn't say that again.
You heard it right there. I tell shake something. I say,
if you're working from bed, and you imagine a woman
with fruit and silk gowns are but it's usually her
(16:54):
her glasses of crooking. Her scarf is foss away and
she's solving a problem with THENT before she runs out
to do it to make a meeting. You know, it's
it's important that you understand. M There's a woman I
follow named A k A A nundrum um, and I
want people to follow her. She's like a sister. She
gives so we catch we can catch her. I'll give
you the spell on this A k A A nundrum.
(17:15):
We'll find her. We always recommend. I'll pull I'll pull
her up so people can see her. Because what she
does is give um. She gives people amazing advice. She
doesn't she's not charging your tons of money people. Okay,
we got her. Okay. So this sister is to me
(17:36):
one of the most prolific people in because she helps
you solves very simple problems with So if you, if
you go buy something, you should ll l see it
if you if you if you make a dollar, you
should make sure that you only use a quarter everything
figure out saving seventy five percent. You know, they're varies
and needs of stuff I just learned from my grandfare,
you know, my grandfather, my grandmother. I never forget the
(17:57):
first time I bought a hundred and twenty dollars a
game from Chuck E Cheese. I was like, man, I'm bowling, Man,
I'm gonna go about some Jay's. The whole check is
gone hundred dollars of my money and left me with
twenty bucks. And so what's really interesting about that is
my dad is from Ghana. He was born and raised there,
(18:17):
and there is this tradition there that when your children,
you know, graduate from school and make their first check
from their first job, you have to give it all
back to your parents because it's like thank you for
what you've done, thank you for what you've taught me.
And I remember that day came around and my dad
put his hand out and I was like, but really,
and he was like, yep, Maggie. The point is they
(18:38):
take it and they save it for you. That's what
I was going to give people. So after I graduate
high school and go to college, in a second citizen's
trust account, not my main one, which I usually floated,
kept about two hundred bucks and at that time there
is a thousand dollars safe from all those checks that
she just took. And she was a bully. But but
(19:01):
I understand. I understood it, and I understand and now
um in parenting my children, I get to use some
of those lessons. But you know, people, a lot of
it is is to me start small and scale up first,
and I contruckt. Can I practice self control and self
discipline with my money? Right? Can I do that? Next?
Is it possible? Is it possible for me to put
(19:24):
something aside, not only from the savings, but investing. So
if you can't go invest and build a business. What
are the things that you like that you wear? Do
you eat it? Chucky cheese? Do you wear Nikes? Is
polar favorite company of yours? Put the money you would
have put into buying some of those things into buying shares.
Absolutely little things like this Coca Cola and Delta. When
(19:47):
my first stocks my grandparents bought for me and kindergarten,
I stupidly sold those stocks and my freshman year of
college because I just didn't know any better. I kicked
myself in the butt all the time. Because these two people,
one was formally educated, one was functionally illiterate. These two
people were way smarter than me for most of my
life about money because they respected the coin. They took
(20:09):
care of it because it was took care of us.
And our grandparents had one house that we lived in.
They had another house that they rented out. You know,
the day you have airbnb and stuff. They just had
old folks that rented that didn't need quadable rent. My
grandfather kept that house. One of my sister lives in
the grandmothers. One of my sister lives in the grandfathers.
But that house that produced rent all those years was
the reason we went on vacation. So I got a chance,
(20:30):
unlike many of my classmates, to explore the Southeast, to
go to places like Florida, the Panhandle, to fish deep
sea fish because my grandfather, who drove a dump truck,
and Saul Moonshine said, this rent will make sure these
children can go on basic culture and even if it
is in the Southeast or you know, you've got out
of town, you got to see different things. And what
I appreciate so much about you being so candid about
(20:52):
sharing these stories is that oftentimes people are like, well,
I didn't come from a parental background where they taught
me these things. Well, you're here right now. Let's into it.
So you can't use that anymore. There's somebody that tried
to teach it. It might have not have been a
person you love the most, might not have been a
person you like the best, but somebody. Everybody got an
uncle or aunt, someone that cares enough. Take that little
(21:13):
bit of advice, take some more knowledge with them and
understanding that you gag and just build it. We have
to stop seeing ourselves as the point or pinnacle of
the pyramid. We are the foundation. We are the four
corners of this pyramid. We have only been free about
fifty nine years in this country. We've had to fight rentlining,
not being insured, land confiscation, unfair treatment with g I
(21:37):
building farmers not before you even get to slavery, and
Jim crowism before you even get to that. So go
easy on yourself, don't go too hard. Start small with
good self discipline and taking care of yourself, and then
make sure that you help someone in the family, understand
you help your neighbor, and organized from a community effort standpoint.
If there's a plot of land that's that I saw
in your community, why haven't you got five ten neighbors
(21:59):
together and said we're gonna buy this plot. We're going
to create a community garden. People in this community will
be able to take them this. You have to get innovative.
Now I know here people see this right, and then
they see white folk protests. They think you got there
from some white folk. But that's not where I got
there from. I got there from a bunch of old
black folks and target heights because that's what they did. Yes,
people to have a gardener currently feeds about six or
seven families. My sister was the wild. She liked to
(22:22):
go to the clubs, have funny, but my grandmother made
her learn, garden. You better get down here after you
go to your club and you this garden and you're
gonna talk about this is the message that you're also
telling us. It's not about hey, let somebody else do it.
You're looking people straight in the irond saying you do it,
you do they're not gonna do it. And your family absolutely,
(22:42):
we celebrated brother Malcolm makes his birthday or there to ago,
Brother Malcolm. Let you know that you're gonna have to
do for self. The oppressor is not going to give
you the education to free you. The oppressor is not
going to give you the information to free you. The
press is not going to give you the encouragement for
you after for yourself. You have to and as possible,
we can do it. You know we have done it.
But when we celebrate the centennial of of Greenwood and
(23:04):
Tulsa right that this this this district, that this bank,
and and the green with the whiskier name. For when
we celebrate that, we have to understand it. This self
determination is what more than burning a town down. What
they did was to break or try to break the
self determination. But that self determination is not broke. Those
people are still as hard as as hard working as
(23:24):
they's ever been in Montgomery, in Birmingham and Atlanta and
Charlotte and Tampa. You know, we have to say to
ourselves that we have a tradition of winning too. We don't.
We're not only stuck from a place of losing or
being denied or being taken from. People have repeatedly shown
the Brown people in this country, immigrants in this country,
(23:45):
have repeatedly shown ourselves not only worthy, but beyond worthy
in terms of what we have. You know, we have
the ability to influence this culture and to give something
to our community and the greater community. And I'm just
proud to be a part of Greenwood because it allows
me to do that past art. I love being an artist.
I love telling people believing yourself you can do it,
and that's nice, right, But I also love my uncle
(24:06):
who's a mechanic who to fix your car. And Greenwood
is a banking institution. Is this It is an opportunity
for you to take the phone in your hand, to
take control of your financial literacy and life, to start
to say I'm going to spend this much and saved
as much and then graduate to the next level and
say I'm going to get a car loan on a
home and then graduating that stuff, I'm going to get
(24:28):
my homelan. Instead of getting a house to my my dreams,
I'm going to get a du plax. I'm on living
one side, I'm gonna rent out the other side. The
rent out of the other side pays the mortgage, which
allows me to save more of my money and now
I can start the scale of invest But it's a
protracted struggle. I didn't get successful in music till I
was thirty five. I was just my seventeen year in music.
But all the lessons I learned while I struggle, I
(24:49):
applied once I got an opportunity too, you know. So
I'm proud to be a part of an institution like
like my grandparents shows black people and brown people. If
I'm willing to her card, if I'm willing to keep
my nose to the grindstone, if I'm willing to learn
and be intelligent about my coin, that there's a possibility.
Because I never knew we were rich until my wife,
who grew up in the housing projects, say y'all, Na,
(25:12):
that's what want you talk about? She said, y'all had
an RV, y'all got to drive the Tampa to Gold
fishing with And I'm like, yeah, what I say, all
the people are She said, no, that's rich. But I
love that because your grandparents were intentional about creating a wealth.
Also inexperience. Right, it's not just and this is what
I think that generational having a little bit of money
(25:34):
but being able to sacrifice so that you can say
they exposed you to experience that made you a real
child of this country. That's incredible. That's what this bank
is going to do for the unbanked, for the people
who live in bank deserts, for the kids who are
only um moving around via paypals and things of that nature.
Now just going to get it an opportunity to be banked.
(25:55):
And and as Black people especially, we owe until our
children to teach them from the mistakes we've made so
that they do not have to repeat them. It is
time to have open and hones to dialogue and conversation.
I spent too much money on the carball, I bought
too much car? Can I fool when I should have saved?
That We all make mistakes. Let's take all the information
(26:20):
from the mistakes that we've made, and let's be honest
with them so that when we say now this is
what we're gonna do, they understand you're speaking from a
place of experience and not just a place of conde
condemning them or place of judgment. And I'd love to
hear you say that because you talk openly also about
your mistakes and the sacrifice you've made, Because you know,
especially for someone being so successful in the entertainment industry, people,
(26:42):
and especially in a city like Atlanta, there's a lot
of flash, there's a lot of pizzis. But but here
you are saying, like, my goals are bigger than what
I'm purchasing today, and it's sacrifice. And this is something
that I love to hear being repeated over and over
and our can you of me? Because there is sacrifice
for tomorrow's bigger goals and they are always bigger than
(27:05):
a pair of Jay's, you know, maybe that flashy car
and probably a chain. But you have to be able
to be willing to make those sacrifices. Yeah, man, I
and I surround myself with like minded people. I was
in the studio with an honorable see note last night.
It was a great brother right producers for two Change
producers for me is produced with goods, has produced with
some of the greatest guys coming out of the city.
(27:27):
And he was ordering an amazingly beautiful, expensive car. And
here's the thing. I'm not saying we don't like nice
things or we don't do no, no, no, it's just
it's just I had never had this kind of conversation
with what I said. See what's up with the y'all?
What's up with the cars? I thought the love he said, Man,
I got a few more years. I get that call man,
I put my stuff in investments, and I looked like
(27:50):
you you know what I'm saying, Like, like you too,
and so it's it's it's I say that because as
young singers and dancers and athletes and stuff, we're going
to have a tremendous opportunity to get our hands on
a lot of cash quickly. Don't forget to be patient
about what you want. It's like when you go to
towards us when you're a kid and your mom's like,
(28:11):
you can get one thing, so you spent most of
the time I walk through like what do I really want?
Oh my gosh, yeah, Like, but it puts you in
a position where you had to understand the level of
important and what I want. And I just want all
of you all to know we can, we must, we will,
we can do better, we must do better, and we
will do better. Don't be so hard in yourself. Start
(28:32):
small and try so before you go. Get a food truck.
Get a food cart. Cart does well, you get you
get you grow that to the food truck. The food
truck does well, you grow it to breaking mortar. But
do not go out um and put everything into one
thing so quickly that after you after if it doesn't
work out, you have nothing minus or plus. You don't
(28:53):
have the confidence, the confidence and information study stuff. My
wife is better at me in business because my wife
is constantly studying business. Don't mean I don't have good
business instincts, but she is going to know what the
cops in the area are. She's gonna know what at
the rental, what what, She's gonna know everything. To the
point when I'd be sending to me, just quiet, I
(29:14):
just like to build it. I thought it was I
thought it would make a nice thought, you know, But
she gets it, so I will. She takes the time
to study it. And also, like you know, to your
point what you're saying is you know this idea of
like overnight sensations. It's honestly, it's about the base heads.
You get to first, you sit on first, you get
the second, you sit on second, you get on and
(29:34):
your home and guess what you're up to bat again.
It's not this, Oh my gosh, I hit it at
the park, And you have to be okay with sitting
on first. You do and don't chase every trend. I
learned that listening to Warren Buffett. You know, decide the
things that you're on and beyond those things, like make
sure those things have proven themselves to My grandfather told
me when I was he said, you don't own nothing.
(29:54):
You can't you can't put in the cup and measure right.
He was giving me that example about and then Spencer.
And even though I had got into other stuff that
he owned, stocks and stuff, the primarily what he was
trying to tell me was by land. So part of
my portfolio or a big part, is just landownership. Then
I got in the stocks and stuff. Once I got
I got in the stocks because I didn't know anything.
(30:15):
I learned. I started asking people, start listening to Warren
Buffet interviews, started listening to Charlie Mugger. Started to understand, Oh,
so this is like buying, but this is on the Okay.
I got into that. A lot of the other stuff
I called Paulo, Paul what is cryptocurrency? How does this work?
So don't be afraid to be a student. Don't be
afraid to be ignorant about some things, the stuff that
you know, the stuff that has proven yourself worthy. Leaning
(30:38):
into those things and then you can grow and get sexier.
But from a very rudimentary level. Um. I try to
stay as close to the old folks as possible. You know,
I watched that Um Buffett didn't even invest outside of
America until about ten fifteen years ago. He knew the
companies here. He did that. So let's just teach each
other more, Let's share information more. Let's get together once
(30:59):
a month and have business party. I love this. I
love this. It's almost like having mastermind groups. Right. This
is what we want to be able to facilitate and
foster at Greenwood. You tune into a podcast, you make comments,
and we get to share other like minded mindsets to
take us to the next level. Mike, I definitely want
to touch on something that is very dear to your
heart and the hearts of many Atlantains. You are an
(31:22):
activist and you have been on a platform that is
not just big here in Atlanta, it's traveled across the
whole world. But I really feel like activism and financial
wealth and wealth building are intertwined. Do you want to
talk about the importance of that for you, especially in
these past couple of months in this year. So I
grew up in the car your heights. People google that,
(31:43):
please so you'll understand significant of that. It's a community
started about black people for black people. It was so
black they put clubs and bars in their basement because
they didn't want to take money in the white folk clubs.
Right they were they were all about them. And now
that's everybody from black people like my grandparents, who was
a nerd and a dump truck driving. My grandfather's drove
dump trucks, my grandmother nurse. That's everybody from Herman Russell
(32:05):
was the largest black real estate developers. Billy and Cynthia
McKenney lived there in the King family, Um, the mom
and dad. So that's a diverse group of people. And
what I've learned is it takes all types. Right, Um,
if you don't have Herman Russell, or you don't have
Mr Kato the numbers man, you don't have a lot
of civil rights marches. Because white corporates are not gonna
(32:27):
pay for a civil rights march. White liquor runners ain't
gonna pay for a civil rights march. It took black
men and women of means to underwrite that. It wasn't
just black actors, you know, wasn't just Bellafonte, who was
an amazingly amazing hero took a lot of local jokeers.
You would never hear about local people with lots of
money that wanted to remain anonymous in terms of marching,
(32:49):
but their money was not anonymous, their money underwroting. So
I learned living in my community like Pete Green, say
your kn't do nothing if you're broke, I can't do
Never sit there and think about I. Oftentimes I am
approached by my black sisters and brothers that are into Marxism,
socials and things in that nature. I can find a
(33:10):
look good in every system because black people on the
bottom and every system right don't matter to me. With
system we and I'd have been around the world four times.
Everywhere I go to people look like us on the bottom.
But what I can tell you is no other system
have I seen provide the opportunity that my great grandparents
had to acquire land, provided the opportunity for my family
to keep the land, and provided opportunity for someone like
(33:32):
me to come out of a working class section called
card Ice and now be one of the most successful
influential people. Not because my family was a good family
and end with the black brugeois. The other talent intent.
But because I worked my butt off, I understood my
own proclivity, some of my shortcomings and what I was
good at. So I tried to spare my shortcomings. I
tried to do better what I was good at. All
of this opportunity comes from the fact that I understand
(33:53):
my position. So what I want Black people to know,
especially is it is possible. It may take longer. Life
is not fair. Yes, there are systemic things that are
going to get in your way, but you are strong enough, capable,
creative enough to do it. And we have to understand
that it is going to take black capitalism too. Now
I know Fred Hampton is one of my heroes. My
(34:14):
mother made me read may hap this book at fifteen
years old. My mother also sold a lot of drugs
and was a successful capitalist. God bless the dead. My mother, though,
wanted me to understand the mentality of a revolutionary, but
she said, in this practical, day to day basis a
man of black man, especially without money or means or
trade or business, it's going to be treated worse than
(34:37):
a feral housecat, worse than a rabbit dog. So I
understood that to take care of my wife, to take
care of my children, to take care of my state
is one of the most noble things I can do.
And if you don't, as black people, take care of
yourself first and take care of your community, we're gonna
be left beggars. I talked to my brothers that have
social that a communists, and I'll said, we'll send me
(34:58):
a link to see the information I want to see
there nation and I'll go to the link information and
asking for donations. Well, how am I gonna donate if
I don't participate in capitalists? The word capitalism, but I
love you it's black capitalism, Yeah, it is. I call
a compassion capitalism because I give right back to the
community I'm from. When you look at Stokely Carmine Parmu,
(35:21):
brother was just amazing, spent his life working for us,
got cancer, incurable cancer, wanted to die at home in Africa.
Of all the organizations that this minute started, all the
organization had been a part of. It took Mike Roberts,
a black billionaire, hotel financier, wiless wiless mobile. It took
(35:43):
him putting together a fundraiser of black capitalists to get
our brother home and our brother won. Pro capitalist, our
brother won pro capitalism, he won pro black capitalists, but
in the end it took black people who understood the
power a coin to take care of him. So whether
we agree, there's just for black people who may or
(36:04):
may not agree with you. I just need you to
know I love you enough to first take care of myself,
to make sure my health and wealth is good. I
love you enough to take care of my wife and
children so they're not a burden on you. But I
love you enough. Should Joe Way not work out, I
want to be safety. That that saves us Green was
the first of many things I wish to do. There's
no reason forty million people in America that are black people.
(36:27):
Twenty million of us are employed, right at least million employed.
Is no reason we don't have ten dollars a month
to send to a fund to take care of a
slide of court with me I bow Jrmal that's two
hundred and fifty million or so that you begin a month.
It's no reason we can't do it. We're just unorganized.
(36:48):
But the minute we start to learn to organize ourselves
with our check books, we start to organize ourselves in
terms of our finance. On my phone, that little bit
of let as myself turns into I can better organ
as with my neighbor tars and talking better organized with
our community. Now we can better organize a people. And
that's what I hope to see in my lifetime. I
love this. I love this, and Killer Mike, you and
(37:11):
your family continue to not just walk the talk. You
are doing all sorts of things that are really moving
our family, for our families forward, our communities forward, not
just here in Atlanta, but you know it's it's spreads
and ripples all across this country. So I thank you.
I wish you guys the best and continued success. Killer Mike,
you just came in here and dropped all the gems
(37:31):
and Mike's I can't take it. Love, love, and respect
a Greenwood guys, thank you. Here at Money Moves, we
plan to keep on dropping as many jewels as knowledge
as we can to help build financial literacy and wealth
and success for all of our communities. So make sure
you keep tuning into the Money News podcast powered by
Greenwood as we continue to explore all the ways we
can keep making our money News. Thank you so much
(37:55):
for tuning in Money Moves audience. If you want more
or a recap of this episode, please go to the
bank Greenwood dot com and check out the Money Moves
podcast blog. Money Moves is an I heart Radio podcast
powered by Greenwoods Executive produced by Sunwise Media, Inc. For
more podcast on I heart Radio, visit the i heart
(38:17):
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.
I'm Tanya Sam and welcome to the Money Moves Podcast
powered by Greenwood. Hey, money Movers, I'm Tanya Sam and
this is the Money Move Podcast powered by Greenwood. Right now,
there is no dancing around it. We have a big name,
(00:22):
a celeb in the house with us, a celeb and friend.
The name is Killer Mike, and the list of accomplishments
is endless. Where do I even begin to start, Killer Mike?
You were an artist and activist and entrepreneur. You own
multiple businesses. You're also a husband, a television producer, and
someone I am very proud to call a friend. But
(00:42):
let's break it down. You're busy. Is that fair to say? Yeah,
I'm a kid from the west south of Atlanta. I
grew up on car your um in the car your
highest community right on call your drive. I went to
Frederick Douglas High School and I have to call your
Ice Elementary and later went to More House. After a
year or More House, I left to pursue music. Yeah,
a record deal of the same year I would have graduated.
So the worst mistake I made was dropping out for music.
(01:04):
But with that said, music is speeding me well. Um,
I earned a Grammy I'm on a song called the
Whole World Without cast I went on a mixtape run
and built my own company, was on Grindtime, and for
the last eight years I've been in a group called
Run the Jewels, which is one of the most heavily
touring wrap groups in the world. We did about undred
and twenty three shows before COVID Close and next year
(01:26):
as Rage against the Machine reunites for a world to
or real be the Open. That's huge. The thing that
kills me about this is what a diverse list of
interests and you haven't even hit upon all of them.
So super happy to have you on the show today.
And I wouldn't dive in because you know, you talk
about your wrap, Africa, accolades, you talk about this. We
haven't even got to the business piece, but we're here
(01:47):
and we're talking about Greenwood. So I want to start
off by, you know, asking you what was it that
drew you to get involved with Greenwood. Well, I mean,
first of all, Um, Paul Judge is incredible in terms
of the tech world, so it made a lot of
sense when you know, you get a call from Paul
and Ryan Glover and say, hey, we want to have
food with you and talk about some stuff. You go,
(02:09):
you know, you're all right. It was one night to
the last night. But I'm just gonna be having lunch
of decent people hours and Um Ryan had built successful
companies that I saw Paul that built successful companies. But
and I was I was already in with them, ask
and getting a chance to talk to my friend and
mentor since I've been fifteen years old, Andy Young. And
when Andy told me how things similar to Greenwood have
(02:31):
been able to help. And when you say Andy, you
mean Ambassador Andy Young, who's really like a civil rights
and icon in the city of Atlanta. Yeah, and somebody
your audience should know. So if you if you hear
me say a name you don't know, it's important, go
google it, right Andy. It was not only a former
U S ambassadors former congressmen from Georgia. Um served in
Jimmy Jimmy Carter's administration, but most importantly into my direct life,
(02:54):
since all politics is local. He was the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia,
and provided an amazing example for people from my side
of town to aspire towards. He lived right in Southwest Atlanta.
I grew up on the West side, the bottom of
the Northwest side. UM went to Frederick Douglas. His son
went to my rival schoolmates vols On Store a partner.
(03:15):
So I believe still sharp and steel, and I believe
that black excellence creates more excellence, and that excellence is
better for the greater community. So I grew up in
a nonclave that was totally ran four by black people
and worked in symbioti symbiotic relationship with the with the
wider community. UM and he brought forty billion dollars into Atlanta,
(03:35):
eleven billion dollars of that went directly into the black community,
black businesses, and I'm not talking about charity's going business.
So when Andy, who classically wasn't a money guy, says,
I mean, Mike, this is valuable. And this is why
I was not only all in. I was all in
and also a friend to everybody who was doing it
because Andy has never done UM anything in my opinion,
(03:57):
that were diverse that would adversely a fense mark. Absolutely,
and most of the things that Andy Young had done
has helped my community. But I also think you've been
You're a perfect example of looking towards a generation before
you and being inspired to act upon it, because this
is nothing new for you. You've always been passionate about
talking about how to recirculate black and brown dollars with
(04:19):
inner communities. You've done television programs highlighting this. So you know,
it's like you took his torch and you were continuing
to carry it on, not just with Greenwood, but other
of your own independent activities. Can you tell us a
little bit more about those as well, and why this
resonates so clearly with you? Well, Man, I was definitely
mentor about Andy, but also people like Reverend James orange On,
(04:39):
Walter Cleveland, Uh, the late James Walt and Reverend Love
Averte Love are gone, but all these people remembers that
cel see all these people remember you know, local gradrooms organization.
So for me, I've been given a responsibility. You know,
Andy didn't pour all that into my cup for me
to just simply over my cup and then Richard take
care of myself. Um. I have businesses and the community. Um.
(05:01):
We have a brand called the Swag Shop, which is
a barbershop, but we do a heck of a lot
more in retail than we do the barbershop. So you
come get your haircut, but you. Also, I call it
Demand's Victoria's Secret, Right, You're going to Victorious Secret right.
As a man, I would go on Valentine's Day, her birthday,
and Christmas. My wife will go to Victory Tis every
week because she buys, she buys. So what we've done
(05:24):
in the barbershop is figure out how to get people
or how to get men to make us a point
of sale for everything, whether you need T shirts, whether
you need shape and bombs that stuff. So I've learned
a lot from growing the business. I learned to be patient.
I learned it takes time. I've learned that although you
may start to invest in your own capital, ultimately that's
not what you want to be doing. So this is
the way you go out and find capital. Um I
have as a creative had to retrain my brain for
(05:47):
how I look at things perspectively in matters of business.
So the creative side of my brain works as well
as it ever did. But I've had to grow and
mature from a business aspect. And that's why I really
value being in a circle of people like Bowl Paul
Lying because they don't tell you wrong, they just say
here's an alternative to do it. Here's an alternative. Till
you were usually you would go do a show, they
pay you a hundred hundred fifty you put in your pocket,
(06:11):
then you go put that into whatever business you want. Well,
now you don't get to do that. You get to
actually put your money to the side, shelter your money,
how you need to put some for your toimement. But
you build relationship with banks, you build relationship with credit
where now you can go get the credit you thought
to make the purchase so that that purchase can pay
for itself. And prime example is my wife and I,
um we rented out the spaces for our first two barbershops.
(06:34):
I'm like, man, we aren't going anywhere. It's been six
seven years. We always pay these people on time. Why
don't we get into buying the spaces? And this is
I mean, talk about this because this is so interesting
because you've gone from you know, a musical creative I
might say visionary genius in that sector to now entrepreneurship
and you're branching into all these other multiple strains of
income and real estate is one of the ones that
I think within our community people have such a huge
(06:56):
misconception about Number One, They're like renting is fine. The
best I should do is just pay my rent on time.
And you and Shape are brilliant people. And like, as
you said, you've learned a lot along the way. So
let's dive into this piece of like how your views
on how to you know, gain wealth in the real
estate market have sort of evolved and changed. Well, let
me give you this. My great grandparents, UM, one of
(07:18):
the children of people who are enslaved. They worked. And
I say this not on small you know, this is
the family mythical bology I've been told. No, I knew
my great grandparents. I knew my big daddy, Nathaniel Blackman.
I knew my big mom, true Zella Blacks beautiful. We
got shipped to their farm in Tuskegee, Alabama. We had
to cut sugar cane and we had to you know,
(07:39):
you had to go get the eggs onto the chicken.
You had to all you have to be self sustaining.
These people, um were wealthy because they left their children
acres of land from share cropping. They left their children
over twenty acres. I mean, that's just that story right there.
I mean I just want to share that to the
(08:00):
of these are share croppers, people who you know, grew
up in a time when they couldn't even own land,
but had the fourth sight to be like, if I
own this land, I can pass it down generation. And
here you are sitting here saying like they were wealthy,
like this happens to their community now. They didn't have
gaudy things. They weren't rich. My grandmother said for Christmas
they would get potato sack, draws and fruit, and my
(08:20):
grandfather says, sill, that was Christmas. It wasn't no Christmas
for me at all, because you were from a poor family.
But my grandparents were. My grant grandparents were wealthy because
the land that they left is still in our family.
And last year me and my sisters got our few
hundred dollars from the timber company that cuts down So
this land still feeds, it still does stuff for us,
(08:41):
and it will continue to stay in our the mouth
my grandparents homes that they all God blessed to dead,
my sisters and not all. I bought multiple um, commercial
and single family homes on the side of town I
was from, because fordable housing needs to be in Atlanta
and people who work in the city. My grandmother moved
to Atlanta nineteen fifty. She walked to nursing school, got
(09:01):
a nursing degree, walked back home every day, ended up
buying a house on the same street on the better side.
So I think, is that's a story that I have
to live up to. I have a responsibility to make
sure that even though I sing and dance for a living,
to not lose my fortune through selling my publishing. I
have a responsibility to maintain as much control over my
(09:22):
master's as possible. I have a responsibility to grow and
plant businesses while I'm here. And I have a greater
responsibility to make sure that I leave something for my
great grandchildren that that may or may not know me.
I was was that my daughter's um commencement speech yesterday
while I had heard as she graduated, and a Jamaican
woman gave the gave a speech and she said, my
(09:43):
great grandfather told my father, I'm planning this treat of
mangoals so that one day my great grandchildren will eat
from them. And this woman says, as I sat in
Jamaica eating mangoals, to my stomach was ready to burst,
I realized that I'm man. I've never met care enough
to leave something for me to nourish me, and that's
(10:06):
simply my motivation for business. I don't like getting up
during the meetings. My wife is better at that than me.
I don't often times like sitting through the numbers, but
I've learned that the numbers matter most in terms of
making sure everything is accounting for. But what I've learned
to love is knowing that the actions and the small
steps I take right now will benefit my grandchildren and
(10:29):
my grand say that. I love how you say that,
because sometimes it's tough. It's sometimes you know, it's not
stuff that we love. But if you focus on loving
the end result, all that doesn't matter. All that doesn't matter,
because we're eating from this mango tree until we are
like overflowing with abundance. So talk about if we go
back to the real estate piece. You know, you and
Shae had this revelation where you're like, we're renting. You know,
(10:50):
our forefathers are literally going no, no no um. I
feel like this this keys into the Greenwood piece a
lot and what we're really trying to do when Greenwood launches,
of being able to um afford people the ability to
get real estate loans. Even though you know you're a
famous celebrity, talk about your struggles, um and someone in
the banking relationships and being able to get loans. Well,
(11:14):
it's about having the relationships. So banks scene took to
to to most people, banks are big, huge faceless corporation. UM.
Black banks in my Black Banking initiative six seven years
ago really show Black people that know banks are still
something very localized. Citizens Trust Bank was my first bank account.
Um to this day, I know I keep a least
(11:35):
a couple hundred thousand dollars with them. You know, it's
for for for you know, just just because they were
the first, So I'm not always going to keep somebodey there. Um.
They taught me the discipline of banking, as my grandmother
taught me to balance the check book. It was a
citizens Trust tech book out. You know. She made sure
that I knew the importance of bank banking. But beyond that,
even local banking. A lot of times you have local
banks and you have banks that tilt and understand communities.
(11:57):
Greenwood is a bank that understands community. So as I
opened barbershops, most big banks, most banks that are not
culturally where I'm from, are not gonna understand the necessity
of a barbershop because people who aren't African, aren't a
part of the African diaspora, don't get their haircut every week.
Most black men in the desper're gonna get the haircut
(12:17):
one every two weeks. So you have a residual customer coming.
But then they'll look at it and stay, well, you're
doing bluefrint. You aren't doing commission. So then you're saying, okay,
well I need to switch to commissions. I'll take a
bigger portion of me and the barber's essentially become partners.
And you say yourself, okay, but I'm still only making
um this amount poor months, in this amount per year.
Then you have the revelation that as a man, I
don't want to go in the beauty store to buy
(12:38):
my brush. I need beard oil, man, I need some
T shirts to match these Jordan's. I need a lighter,
I need a bottle offener, And I just simply said
all the stuff. It's inherent to our culture. You don't
have to explain this when you sit in front of
you know, the founders of because they're Black mount absolutely
so when I tell show them the numbers, then this
(12:58):
is what we've done over the course of the last
nine three hundred sixty five days. It turns it into
a radically different conversation with any bank, but especially with
the bank that has to practicality to understand your community
where it's coming from. I tell people all the time, churches,
looking stories and barbershops don't go out of business in
the black community. Beauty shops as well, just don't because
if you're good, you stand by what you do. You
(13:19):
have an integrity there. Everything else is the alcohol in Jesus.
But I really think that we have I really think
we have the ability to grow. So I want I
am one of the businesses that I wish to help.
And in regards to renting in real estate, um, we
still rent two spaces, you know. But what I start
seeing was things like one to three door strip malls
(13:39):
come up for sale. So Shandon and I said, so
why don't we start targeting those and we become the landlords.
While other people who are in our position want small
business owners. We know you can make eight hundred to
twelve hundred dollars a month rent. You know you're gonna
make that rent, and it gives your time to really
launch and grow your business before you jump into twenty three,
twenty five and three thousand dollar a month, you know.
(14:00):
And so now we get an opportunity to not only
bass faces to put out barbershops and then pay ourselves rent,
but to help other entrepreneurs. Yeah, exactly. And my wife
is a very brilliant She is an incredible force. And
the two of you are incredibly dynamic duo together, and
Atlanta is so happy to have you because what you're
doing is the epitome of you know, putting your money
(14:22):
where your mouth is. You're helping to recirculate the dollars.
You're giving opportunity to entrepreneurs that otherwise would have not
been able to start their business, to feed their families
and then therefore create generational wealth. So Mike, tell me,
you know, you've changed the trajectory of your career from
singing and dancing and now you've taken this leap into entrepreneurship.
Tell our Money Loves Audience, um some of the advice
(14:45):
to what it takes to get started and be successful
in entrepreneurship and also taking a leap into different areas
of career changes. So I'm in a very successful rap
group that gets treated as a rock group. So we
we tour rock bands. We do how to shelves a
year make a lot of money, you know, all right
With that said, I never gave up on solo wrap.
(15:05):
So I took some time and you know, recording some
cool things that got placed in some sinks and stuff
that brought a little more money in. But I didn't
need the money and I didn't need a Bentley, you know,
I like my hell cat. Um. What I decided to
do was put away more money for our stocks and buns,
put away more money for our time and fund but
again to become landlords, to find real estate that's in
that middle area, whether it's affordable apartments that are coming
(15:28):
into Atlanta. We're in part of investment group on whether
it is um strip malls to do that. But I
learned this stuff not from just the hugely successful people
I knew, right, I learned this stuff from my grandparents.
I learned that you live below your means. I learned
that you and your partner have a true partnership and
you have full disclosure and transparency in terms of money.
(15:50):
I lived my life the exact same way my grandfather does,
my grandmother knew what he made in the check came
on Fridays. My wife knows when the checks coming and
win his landing. Right. We discussed what we're doing with checks.
That gets done and we proceed because we have a
trajectory we're pointing to it. I don't want to have
to work in five years. I don't want my wife
to ever have to work for another man. I don't.
(16:11):
The only way we do that is work incredibly hard. Now,
for people who want to be entrepreneurs, if you don't
like working forty hours a week for someone else, then
understand you're gonna work a hundred and fifty. We say
that again, I don't like working forty hours of someone else,
get prepared to work one fifty for yourself. You're gonna
be working so hard you're gonna thank you whipping y'all.
(16:33):
I mean, that is the truth. You know, this idea
of this misnomer that you know, if you're an entrepreneur
you're literally on the beach working five hours a day
while everybody else it's just not true. You will never
be successful like that. And I didn't say that again.
You heard it right there. I tell shake something. I say,
if you're working from bed, and you imagine a woman
with fruit and silk gowns are but it's usually her
(16:54):
her glasses of crooking. Her scarf is foss away and
she's solving a problem with THENT before she runs out
to do it to make a meeting. You know, it's
it's important that you understand. M There's a woman I
follow named A k A A nundrum um, and I
want people to follow her. She's like a sister. She
gives so we catch we can catch her. I'll give
you the spell on this A k A A nundrum.
(17:15):
We'll find her. We always recommend. I'll pull I'll pull
her up so people can see her. Because what she
does is give um. She gives people amazing advice. She
doesn't she's not charging your tons of money people. Okay,
we got her. Okay. So this sister is to me
(17:36):
one of the most prolific people in because she helps
you solves very simple problems with So if you, if
you go buy something, you should ll l see it
if you if you if you make a dollar, you
should make sure that you only use a quarter everything
figure out saving seventy five percent. You know, they're varies
and needs of stuff I just learned from my grandfare,
you know, my grandfather, my grandmother. I never forget the
(17:57):
first time I bought a hundred and twenty dollars a
game from Chuck E Cheese. I was like, man, I'm bowling, Man,
I'm gonna go about some Jay's. The whole check is
gone hundred dollars of my money and left me with
twenty bucks. And so what's really interesting about that is
my dad is from Ghana. He was born and raised there,
(18:17):
and there is this tradition there that when your children,
you know, graduate from school and make their first check
from their first job, you have to give it all
back to your parents because it's like thank you for
what you've done, thank you for what you've taught me.
And I remember that day came around and my dad
put his hand out and I was like, but really,
and he was like, yep, Maggie. The point is they
(18:38):
take it and they save it for you. That's what
I was going to give people. So after I graduate
high school and go to college, in a second citizen's
trust account, not my main one, which I usually floated,
kept about two hundred bucks and at that time there
is a thousand dollars safe from all those checks that
she just took. And she was a bully. But but
(19:01):
I understand. I understood it, and I understand and now
um in parenting my children, I get to use some
of those lessons. But you know, people, a lot of
it is is to me start small and scale up first,
and I contruckt. Can I practice self control and self
discipline with my money? Right? Can I do that? Next?
Is it possible? Is it possible for me to put
(19:24):
something aside, not only from the savings, but investing. So
if you can't go invest and build a business. What
are the things that you like that you wear? Do
you eat it? Chucky cheese? Do you wear Nikes? Is
polar favorite company of yours? Put the money you would
have put into buying some of those things into buying shares.
Absolutely little things like this Coca Cola and Delta. When
(19:47):
my first stocks my grandparents bought for me and kindergarten,
I stupidly sold those stocks and my freshman year of
college because I just didn't know any better. I kicked
myself in the butt all the time. Because these two people,
one was formally educated, one was functionally illiterate. These two
people were way smarter than me for most of my
life about money because they respected the coin. They took
(20:09):
care of it because it was took care of us.
And our grandparents had one house that we lived in.
They had another house that they rented out. You know,
the day you have airbnb and stuff. They just had
old folks that rented that didn't need quadable rent. My
grandfather kept that house. One of my sister lives in
the grandmothers. One of my sister lives in the grandfathers.
But that house that produced rent all those years was
the reason we went on vacation. So I got a chance,
(20:30):
unlike many of my classmates, to explore the Southeast, to
go to places like Florida, the Panhandle, to fish deep
sea fish because my grandfather, who drove a dump truck,
and Saul Moonshine said, this rent will make sure these
children can go on basic culture and even if it
is in the Southeast or you know, you've got out
of town, you got to see different things. And what
I appreciate so much about you being so candid about
(20:52):
sharing these stories is that oftentimes people are like, well,
I didn't come from a parental background where they taught
me these things. Well, you're here right now. Let's into it.
So you can't use that anymore. There's somebody that tried
to teach it. It might have not have been a
person you love the most, might not have been a
person you like the best, but somebody. Everybody got an
uncle or aunt, someone that cares enough. Take that little
(21:13):
bit of advice, take some more knowledge with them and
understanding that you gag and just build it. We have
to stop seeing ourselves as the point or pinnacle of
the pyramid. We are the foundation. We are the four
corners of this pyramid. We have only been free about
fifty nine years in this country. We've had to fight rentlining,
not being insured, land confiscation, unfair treatment with g I
(21:37):
building farmers not before you even get to slavery, and
Jim crowism before you even get to that. So go
easy on yourself, don't go too hard. Start small with
good self discipline and taking care of yourself, and then
make sure that you help someone in the family, understand
you help your neighbor, and organized from a community effort standpoint.
If there's a plot of land that's that I saw
in your community, why haven't you got five ten neighbors
(21:59):
together and said we're gonna buy this plot. We're going
to create a community garden. People in this community will
be able to take them this. You have to get innovative.
Now I know here people see this right, and then
they see white folk protests. They think you got there
from some white folk. But that's not where I got
there from. I got there from a bunch of old
black folks and target heights because that's what they did. Yes,
people to have a gardener currently feeds about six or
seven families. My sister was the wild. She liked to
(22:22):
go to the clubs, have funny, but my grandmother made
her learn, garden. You better get down here after you
go to your club and you this garden and you're
gonna talk about this is the message that you're also
telling us. It's not about hey, let somebody else do it.
You're looking people straight in the irond saying you do it,
you do they're not gonna do it. And your family absolutely,
(22:42):
we celebrated brother Malcolm makes his birthday or there to ago,
Brother Malcolm. Let you know that you're gonna have to
do for self. The oppressor is not going to give
you the education to free you. The oppressor is not
going to give you the information to free you. The
press is not going to give you the encouragement for
you after for yourself. You have to and as possible,
we can do it. You know we have done it.
But when we celebrate the centennial of of Greenwood and
(23:04):
Tulsa right that this this this district, that this bank,
and and the green with the whiskier name. For when
we celebrate that, we have to understand it. This self
determination is what more than burning a town down. What
they did was to break or try to break the
self determination. But that self determination is not broke. Those
people are still as hard as as hard working as
(23:24):
they's ever been in Montgomery, in Birmingham and Atlanta and
Charlotte and Tampa. You know, we have to say to
ourselves that we have a tradition of winning too. We don't.
We're not only stuck from a place of losing or
being denied or being taken from. People have repeatedly shown
the Brown people in this country, immigrants in this country,
(23:45):
have repeatedly shown ourselves not only worthy, but beyond worthy
in terms of what we have. You know, we have
the ability to influence this culture and to give something
to our community and the greater community. And I'm just
proud to be a part of Greenwood because it allows
me to do that past art. I love being an artist.
I love telling people believing yourself you can do it,
and that's nice, right, But I also love my uncle
(24:06):
who's a mechanic who to fix your car. And Greenwood
is a banking institution. Is this It is an opportunity
for you to take the phone in your hand, to
take control of your financial literacy and life, to start
to say I'm going to spend this much and saved
as much and then graduate to the next level and
say I'm going to get a car loan on a
home and then graduating that stuff, I'm going to get
(24:28):
my homelan. Instead of getting a house to my my dreams,
I'm going to get a du plax. I'm on living
one side, I'm gonna rent out the other side. The
rent out of the other side pays the mortgage, which
allows me to save more of my money and now
I can start the scale of invest But it's a
protracted struggle. I didn't get successful in music till I
was thirty five. I was just my seventeen year in music.
But all the lessons I learned while I struggle, I
(24:49):
applied once I got an opportunity too, you know. So
I'm proud to be a part of an institution like
like my grandparents shows black people and brown people. If
I'm willing to her card, if I'm willing to keep
my nose to the grindstone, if I'm willing to learn
and be intelligent about my coin, that there's a possibility.
Because I never knew we were rich until my wife,
who grew up in the housing projects, say y'all, Na,
(25:12):
that's what want you talk about? She said, y'all had
an RV, y'all got to drive the Tampa to Gold
fishing with And I'm like, yeah, what I say, all
the people are She said, no, that's rich. But I
love that because your grandparents were intentional about creating a wealth.
Also inexperience. Right, it's not just and this is what
I think that generational having a little bit of money
(25:34):
but being able to sacrifice so that you can say
they exposed you to experience that made you a real
child of this country. That's incredible. That's what this bank
is going to do for the unbanked, for the people
who live in bank deserts, for the kids who are
only um moving around via paypals and things of that nature.
Now just going to get it an opportunity to be banked.
(25:55):
And and as Black people especially, we owe until our
children to teach them from the mistakes we've made so
that they do not have to repeat them. It is
time to have open and hones to dialogue and conversation.
I spent too much money on the carball, I bought
too much car? Can I fool when I should have saved?
That We all make mistakes. Let's take all the information
(26:20):
from the mistakes that we've made, and let's be honest
with them so that when we say now this is
what we're gonna do, they understand you're speaking from a
place of experience and not just a place of conde
condemning them or place of judgment. And I'd love to
hear you say that because you talk openly also about
your mistakes and the sacrifice you've made, Because you know,
especially for someone being so successful in the entertainment industry, people,
(26:42):
and especially in a city like Atlanta, there's a lot
of flash, there's a lot of pizzis. But but here
you are saying, like, my goals are bigger than what
I'm purchasing today, and it's sacrifice. And this is something
that I love to hear being repeated over and over
and our can you of me? Because there is sacrifice
for tomorrow's bigger goals and they are always bigger than
(27:05):
a pair of Jay's, you know, maybe that flashy car
and probably a chain. But you have to be able
to be willing to make those sacrifices. Yeah, man, I
and I surround myself with like minded people. I was
in the studio with an honorable see note last night.
It was a great brother right producers for two Change
producers for me is produced with goods, has produced with
some of the greatest guys coming out of the city.
(27:27):
And he was ordering an amazingly beautiful, expensive car. And
here's the thing. I'm not saying we don't like nice
things or we don't do no, no, no, it's just
it's just I had never had this kind of conversation
with what I said. See what's up with the y'all?
What's up with the cars? I thought the love he said, Man,
I got a few more years. I get that call man,
I put my stuff in investments, and I looked like
(27:50):
you you know what I'm saying, Like, like you too,
and so it's it's it's I say that because as
young singers and dancers and athletes and stuff, we're going
to have a tremendous opportunity to get our hands on
a lot of cash quickly. Don't forget to be patient
about what you want. It's like when you go to
towards us when you're a kid and your mom's like,
(28:11):
you can get one thing, so you spent most of
the time I walk through like what do I really want?
Oh my gosh, yeah, Like, but it puts you in
a position where you had to understand the level of
important and what I want. And I just want all
of you all to know we can, we must, we will,
we can do better, we must do better, and we
will do better. Don't be so hard in yourself. Start
(28:32):
small and try so before you go. Get a food truck.
Get a food cart. Cart does well, you get you
get you grow that to the food truck. The food
truck does well, you grow it to breaking mortar. But
do not go out um and put everything into one
thing so quickly that after you after if it doesn't
work out, you have nothing minus or plus. You don't
(28:53):
have the confidence, the confidence and information study stuff. My
wife is better at me in business because my wife
is constantly studying business. Don't mean I don't have good
business instincts, but she is going to know what the
cops in the area are. She's gonna know what at
the rental, what what, She's gonna know everything. To the
point when I'd be sending to me, just quiet, I
(29:14):
just like to build it. I thought it was I
thought it would make a nice thought, you know, But
she gets it, so I will. She takes the time
to study it. And also, like you know, to your
point what you're saying is you know this idea of
like overnight sensations. It's honestly, it's about the base heads.
You get to first, you sit on first, you get
the second, you sit on second, you get on and
(29:34):
your home and guess what you're up to bat again.
It's not this, Oh my gosh, I hit it at
the park, And you have to be okay with sitting
on first. You do and don't chase every trend. I
learned that listening to Warren Buffett. You know, decide the
things that you're on and beyond those things, like make
sure those things have proven themselves to My grandfather told
me when I was he said, you don't own nothing.
(29:54):
You can't you can't put in the cup and measure right.
He was giving me that example about and then Spencer.
And even though I had got into other stuff that
he owned, stocks and stuff, the primarily what he was
trying to tell me was by land. So part of
my portfolio or a big part, is just landownership. Then
I got in the stocks and stuff. Once I got
I got in the stocks because I didn't know anything.
(30:15):
I learned. I started asking people, start listening to Warren
Buffet interviews, started listening to Charlie Mugger. Started to understand, Oh,
so this is like buying, but this is on the Okay.
I got into that. A lot of the other stuff
I called Paulo, Paul what is cryptocurrency? How does this work?
So don't be afraid to be a student. Don't be
afraid to be ignorant about some things, the stuff that
you know, the stuff that has proven yourself worthy. Leaning
(30:38):
into those things and then you can grow and get sexier.
But from a very rudimentary level. Um. I try to
stay as close to the old folks as possible. You know,
I watched that Um Buffett didn't even invest outside of
America until about ten fifteen years ago. He knew the
companies here. He did that. So let's just teach each
other more, Let's share information more. Let's get together once
(30:59):
a month and have business party. I love this. I
love this. It's almost like having mastermind groups. Right. This
is what we want to be able to facilitate and
foster at Greenwood. You tune into a podcast, you make comments,
and we get to share other like minded mindsets to
take us to the next level. Mike, I definitely want
to touch on something that is very dear to your
heart and the hearts of many Atlantains. You are an
(31:22):
activist and you have been on a platform that is
not just big here in Atlanta, it's traveled across the
whole world. But I really feel like activism and financial
wealth and wealth building are intertwined. Do you want to
talk about the importance of that for you, especially in
these past couple of months in this year. So I
grew up in the car your heights. People google that,
(31:43):
please so you'll understand significant of that. It's a community
started about black people for black people. It was so
black they put clubs and bars in their basement because
they didn't want to take money in the white folk clubs.
Right they were they were all about them. And now
that's everybody from black people like my grandparents, who was
a nerd and a dump truck driving. My grandfather's drove
dump trucks, my grandmother nurse. That's everybody from Herman Russell
(32:05):
was the largest black real estate developers. Billy and Cynthia
McKenney lived there in the King family, Um, the mom
and dad. So that's a diverse group of people. And
what I've learned is it takes all types. Right, Um,
if you don't have Herman Russell, or you don't have
Mr Kato the numbers man, you don't have a lot
of civil rights marches. Because white corporates are not gonna
(32:27):
pay for a civil rights march. White liquor runners ain't
gonna pay for a civil rights march. It took black
men and women of means to underwrite that. It wasn't
just black actors, you know, wasn't just Bellafonte, who was
an amazingly amazing hero took a lot of local jokeers.
You would never hear about local people with lots of
money that wanted to remain anonymous in terms of marching,
(32:49):
but their money was not anonymous, their money underwroting. So
I learned living in my community like Pete Green, say
your kn't do nothing if you're broke, I can't do
Never sit there and think about I. Oftentimes I am
approached by my black sisters and brothers that are into Marxism,
socials and things in that nature. I can find a
(33:10):
look good in every system because black people on the
bottom and every system right don't matter to me. With
system we and I'd have been around the world four times.
Everywhere I go to people look like us on the bottom.
But what I can tell you is no other system
have I seen provide the opportunity that my great grandparents
had to acquire land, provided the opportunity for my family
to keep the land, and provided opportunity for someone like
(33:32):
me to come out of a working class section called
card Ice and now be one of the most successful
influential people. Not because my family was a good family
and end with the black brugeois. The other talent intent.
But because I worked my butt off, I understood my
own proclivity, some of my shortcomings and what I was
good at. So I tried to spare my shortcomings. I
tried to do better what I was good at. All
of this opportunity comes from the fact that I understand
(33:53):
my position. So what I want Black people to know,
especially is it is possible. It may take longer. Life
is not fair. Yes, there are systemic things that are
going to get in your way, but you are strong enough, capable,
creative enough to do it. And we have to understand
that it is going to take black capitalism too. Now
I know Fred Hampton is one of my heroes. My
(34:14):
mother made me read may hap this book at fifteen
years old. My mother also sold a lot of drugs
and was a successful capitalist. God bless the dead. My mother, though,
wanted me to understand the mentality of a revolutionary, but
she said, in this practical, day to day basis a
man of black man, especially without money or means or
trade or business, it's going to be treated worse than
(34:37):
a feral housecat, worse than a rabbit dog. So I
understood that to take care of my wife, to take
care of my children, to take care of my state
is one of the most noble things I can do.
And if you don't, as black people, take care of
yourself first and take care of your community, we're gonna
be left beggars. I talked to my brothers that have
social that a communists, and I'll said, we'll send me
(34:58):
a link to see the information I want to see
there nation and I'll go to the link information and
asking for donations. Well, how am I gonna donate if
I don't participate in capitalists? The word capitalism, but I
love you it's black capitalism, Yeah, it is. I call
a compassion capitalism because I give right back to the
community I'm from. When you look at Stokely Carmine Parmu,
(35:21):
brother was just amazing, spent his life working for us,
got cancer, incurable cancer, wanted to die at home in Africa.
Of all the organizations that this minute started, all the
organization had been a part of. It took Mike Roberts,
a black billionaire, hotel financier, wiless wiless mobile. It took
(35:43):
him putting together a fundraiser of black capitalists to get
our brother home and our brother won. Pro capitalist, our
brother won pro capitalism, he won pro black capitalists, but
in the end it took black people who understood the
power a coin to take care of him. So whether
we agree, there's just for black people who may or
(36:04):
may not agree with you. I just need you to
know I love you enough to first take care of myself,
to make sure my health and wealth is good. I
love you enough to take care of my wife and
children so they're not a burden on you. But I
love you enough. Should Joe Way not work out, I
want to be safety. That that saves us Green was
the first of many things I wish to do. There's
no reason forty million people in America that are black people.
(36:27):
Twenty million of us are employed, right at least million employed.
Is no reason we don't have ten dollars a month
to send to a fund to take care of a
slide of court with me I bow Jrmal that's two
hundred and fifty million or so that you begin a month.
It's no reason we can't do it. We're just unorganized.
(36:48):
But the minute we start to learn to organize ourselves
with our check books, we start to organize ourselves in
terms of our finance. On my phone, that little bit
of let as myself turns into I can better organ
as with my neighbor tars and talking better organized with
our community. Now we can better organize a people. And
that's what I hope to see in my lifetime. I
love this. I love this, and Killer Mike, you and
(37:11):
your family continue to not just walk the talk. You
are doing all sorts of things that are really moving
our family, for our families forward, our communities forward, not
just here in Atlanta, but you know it's it's spreads
and ripples all across this country. So I thank you.
I wish you guys the best and continued success. Killer Mike,
you just came in here and dropped all the gems
(37:31):
and Mike's I can't take it. Love, love, and respect
a Greenwood guys, thank you. Here at Money Moves, we
plan to keep on dropping as many jewels as knowledge
as we can to help build financial literacy and wealth
and success for all of our communities. So make sure
you keep tuning into the Money News podcast powered by
Greenwood as we continue to explore all the ways we
can keep making our money News. Thank you so much
(37:55):
for tuning in Money Moves audience. If you want more
or a recap of this episode, please go to the
bank Greenwood dot com and check out the Money Moves
podcast blog. Money Moves is an I heart Radio podcast
powered by Greenwoods Executive produced by Sunwise Media, Inc. For
more podcast on I heart Radio, visit the i heart
(38:17):
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