February 3, 2022 • 11 mins
Learn the untold history of Black Wall Street in this new documentary presented by Greenwood. Discover the past and present of Black Wall Street in the Greenwood District of Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Through interviews with Tulsa residents, historians, and community leaders, we explore real-life accounts of the survivors of the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre, take tours of historical Greenwood locales, and explore the process of uncovering and reclaiming historical property.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
As you know, our crew went out to Tulsa, Oklahoma
for the one anniversary of the Greenwood Massacre. In while
they were there, they were able to catch up with
multiple people who had stories to tell that aren't usually told.
So part of our job here at Money Moves is
to let you in on the moves made in our communities,
in our past, in our present, so that you can
(00:21):
also make your money move today. My name is Cleo Harris, Jr.
And I'm the owner of black Wall Street T shirts
and sevenirs. My family has been here a long time.
(00:42):
I'm Creek Semino and Blackfoot, so well versed in the
history of knowledge of who we are as a people.
A lot of unanswered questions are with descendants. I stand
on the shoulders of those who came before me. There's
a park called ben Hill Park that was the place
(01:05):
where North Tulsa brothers and sisters we played up there.
We swam, played basketball in nineteen seventy five. But on
top of the hill there's a canopy picnic area. Elderly
man around seventy came out of nowhere and asked us
did we know we were on holy ground? And of
(01:29):
course we didn't really know what he was talking about.
You know, we're just ten. He further began to tell
us that this place is real sacred. A lot of
people died. He said, how the white army men came
in with submachine guns, later to find out they were
gattling guns. How they killed men, women and children, How
(01:53):
they cremated bodies to get rid of the evidence. How
they went over to the brickyard I used to play in.
And as he started tearing up in crime, he begged us,
don't forget young bloods. This is holy Brown. They killed
our people. He also told us that his family was killed.
(02:13):
So looking back at that, I knew I was talking
to a survivor. This is still a crime scene that
happened a hundred years ago. This church has been considered
to be the Grandmother of Greenwood, the oldest continuous landowner
in the whole Greenwood district, and up until the building
(02:34):
of that Interstate highway outside and then coupled with urban renewal,
which was which we call urban removal, his community was
thriving and strong. We didn't wait till our church was rebuilt.
We came and worshiped in the midst of burn charged
soil and dirt and in concrete. During the massacre, even
we had folks who hid in our basement and it
(02:56):
provided refuge for people during that time. That old man,
that survivor, who said please, please and begged us, that's
what traumatized me. They killed our people. Please tell the
story that was We all to deal with the truth.
What really happened was Dick Roland and Sarah Page were
(03:20):
husband and wife. You got a nineteen year old black
men and you have a seventeen year old white female
who've been seeing each other secretly. Of course, back then
black men didn't look at white women. They didn't smile,
they didn't whistle. You didn't do nothing, or there was
a lynching. Dick Rolling would finish his job here on
Black Wall Street and he would go across the track
(03:42):
to where Sarah worked as an elevator operator. And she
had a secret, a surprise. And when they were an elevator,
some commotion went on, sounds like some excitement. She was pregnant.
She told him the doors open, white men looked in,
and there you go. He was hauled off to jail.
(04:06):
Most stories, says nab Negro, but I've read the original paper.
Total Tribune said, nab nigger. The line that's been told
is that he rapes Sarah. They strategically use that as
an excuse to burn everything down so that the so
called African American man, Negro woman, and child would never
(04:31):
build a black wall street. Ever. The mascot death made
of our church building, but our membership stay strong. We're
continuing to be that congregation that speaks for our community
and speaks for the people and speaks to power. Every
week we go out to city Hall, are demanding reparations
(04:51):
from the nineteen twenty one told race masket and sixteen
nineteen slavery in America. My encouragement is that the descendants
shouldn't be afraid to come out and tell the truth.
And the truth of the matter is all of this
property thirty six to forty square blocks radius has been
(05:11):
stolen from us. These are things that need to be
told to inspire us. I want my people and people
in general to have a better understanding. They wrote the program.
We have to educate ourselves on how to understand that
program and decoded so it can take care of our community.
(05:34):
We got to reconstruct the mindset to reconstruct where we're
at today. My name is James O. Good When born
(06:00):
in the Womber the fourth nine. I am the second
generation owner of the Oaklahom Egle. My father acquired the
newspaper in ninety six. Its predecessor was the Tulsa Star.
The owner of that Mr. Smitherman, fled because of the
terror that he experienced and left behind press and equipment
(06:25):
value at that time in excess of dollars in the ashes.
His business manager, Mr. Baldwin, recouped his equipment and started
the oaklahom Egle. Both those predecessor publishers were known for
their fourth rightness and publishing the un honest truth about
(06:47):
occurrences within the community. Because of their outspokenness in speaking
truth to power, they were sought after its being undesirables.
My name is Terry Acts. I am a filmmaker here
on Greenwood. Also, I am a tour guide for the
Greenwood Chamber of Column and I have little for Greenwood.
(07:08):
Always am. Growing up in tuls Olhoma. At eight years old,
I used to walk two miles and come and get
the Eagle newspaper to sail. The buildings that you see
left now they call it Greenwood property. Those buildings was
built after the massacre. You really can't tell the story
unless you talk about slavery. The Indian Removal Act in
(07:31):
which the biot civilized tribes gravitated to Oklahoma four start
by Andrew Jackson. It was called Indian Territory, but they
brought with them thousands of slaves. My family been on
this land before Oklahoma was a state. I have sovereign
citizenship in the Maskogee Creek Nation by way of my
(07:52):
paternal grandmother. Later on oil and gas was discovered. The
delegation from Washington aim to the five civilized tribes and
wanted to tribe to voluntearily become US citizens, and they decline.
The government decided, well, since you guys fought against us,
(08:12):
you were fighting for the Confederacy, we don't have to
abide by any treat as we made. And so they
decided to far so with the Indian land and individual ownership.
And when that happened, if you were residing in Indian Territory,
whether you were African, American or Indian, you were a
lotted a hundred and sixty acres of land or three acres.
(08:35):
As a result of that allocation, you had over thirty
all black towns. The land is an asset, and this
land was rich in minerals because this is an oil
and gas state, and so you have black folks owned
in the land. Right land is the most power you
can have. It was the most affluent because of all that,
(08:56):
just that money trickled down in the old industry. Ironically,
Jim Crow was a social construct that was intended to
continue to deprive black folks from opportunity. But because of
the racist attitudes of we don't trade with you, we
don't read our lives, black folks had the resources. They
(09:18):
traded amongst themselves, and green with them began to flourish.
So they leeved in that prosperity at that moment when
it was on green mood, you know, and it was
a real true community. To Greenwood made apparent that racial
white superiority was a massive white lie. So they came
(09:38):
in and destroyed it. Over a period of eighteen hours,
it was destroyed. How does your jealousy t tho people
were displaced put into internment camps. The propaganda was that
it was a riot, and of course it's onrey, but
recent that it's been nominated as a massacre. So when
(10:00):
the massacre happened right in days and weeks after of it,
people was missing. Right. I couldn't go till deserved that
my uncle Johnny is missing, because I'm gonna come a
missing And so that's why it's been hush hush for
all these years. Right, So this is a memorial. They
knew enough to put this up. Now we can have
(10:21):
memorials everywhere because we're gonna talk about it. Newspapers today,
with a few exceptions, don't advocate. They accommodate because of
their add customers. Somebody has to pay more attention to
(10:43):
the elimination of the disparity because if we don't, our
own system of government is strength. Our duty as a
profession and our duty as American citizens is the fight
for the rights of all and that there'll be equal
opportunity by a position the resources and to fight back
legal efforts that book stunt, stall or eliminate that opportunity.
(11:21):
Thank you so much for tuning in Money Moves audience.
If you want more or a recap of this episode,
please go to the bank Greenwood dot com and check
out the Money Moves podcast blog. Money Moves is an
I Heart radio podcast powered by Greenwood executive produced by
Sunwise Media Inc. For more podcasts on I heart Radio,
(11:43):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts from.
As you know, our crew went out to Tulsa, Oklahoma
for the one anniversary of the Greenwood Massacre. In while
they were there, they were able to catch up with
multiple people who had stories to tell that aren't usually told.
So part of our job here at Money Moves is
to let you in on the moves made in our communities,
in our past, in our present, so that you can
(00:21):
also make your money move today. My name is Cleo Harris, Jr.
And I'm the owner of black Wall Street T shirts
and sevenirs. My family has been here a long time.
(00:42):
I'm Creek Semino and Blackfoot, so well versed in the
history of knowledge of who we are as a people.
A lot of unanswered questions are with descendants. I stand
on the shoulders of those who came before me. There's
a park called ben Hill Park that was the place
(01:05):
where North Tulsa brothers and sisters we played up there.
We swam, played basketball in nineteen seventy five. But on
top of the hill there's a canopy picnic area. Elderly
man around seventy came out of nowhere and asked us
did we know we were on holy ground? And of
(01:29):
course we didn't really know what he was talking about.
You know, we're just ten. He further began to tell
us that this place is real sacred. A lot of
people died. He said, how the white army men came
in with submachine guns, later to find out they were
gattling guns. How they killed men, women and children, How
(01:53):
they cremated bodies to get rid of the evidence. How
they went over to the brickyard I used to play in.
And as he started tearing up in crime, he begged us,
don't forget young bloods. This is holy Brown. They killed
our people. He also told us that his family was killed.
(02:13):
So looking back at that, I knew I was talking
to a survivor. This is still a crime scene that
happened a hundred years ago. This church has been considered
to be the Grandmother of Greenwood, the oldest continuous landowner
in the whole Greenwood district, and up until the building
(02:34):
of that Interstate highway outside and then coupled with urban renewal,
which was which we call urban removal, his community was
thriving and strong. We didn't wait till our church was rebuilt.
We came and worshiped in the midst of burn charged
soil and dirt and in concrete. During the massacre, even
we had folks who hid in our basement and it
(02:56):
provided refuge for people during that time. That old man,
that survivor, who said please, please and begged us, that's
what traumatized me. They killed our people. Please tell the
story that was We all to deal with the truth.
What really happened was Dick Roland and Sarah Page were
(03:20):
husband and wife. You got a nineteen year old black
men and you have a seventeen year old white female
who've been seeing each other secretly. Of course, back then
black men didn't look at white women. They didn't smile,
they didn't whistle. You didn't do nothing, or there was
a lynching. Dick Rolling would finish his job here on
Black Wall Street and he would go across the track
(03:42):
to where Sarah worked as an elevator operator. And she
had a secret, a surprise. And when they were an elevator,
some commotion went on, sounds like some excitement. She was pregnant.
She told him the doors open, white men looked in,
and there you go. He was hauled off to jail.
(04:06):
Most stories, says nab Negro, but I've read the original paper.
Total Tribune said, nab nigger. The line that's been told
is that he rapes Sarah. They strategically use that as
an excuse to burn everything down so that the so
called African American man, Negro woman, and child would never
(04:31):
build a black wall street. Ever. The mascot death made
of our church building, but our membership stay strong. We're
continuing to be that congregation that speaks for our community
and speaks for the people and speaks to power. Every
week we go out to city Hall, are demanding reparations
(04:51):
from the nineteen twenty one told race masket and sixteen
nineteen slavery in America. My encouragement is that the descendants
shouldn't be afraid to come out and tell the truth.
And the truth of the matter is all of this
property thirty six to forty square blocks radius has been
(05:11):
stolen from us. These are things that need to be
told to inspire us. I want my people and people
in general to have a better understanding. They wrote the program.
We have to educate ourselves on how to understand that
program and decoded so it can take care of our community.
(05:34):
We got to reconstruct the mindset to reconstruct where we're
at today. My name is James O. Good When born
(06:00):
in the Womber the fourth nine. I am the second
generation owner of the Oaklahom Egle. My father acquired the
newspaper in ninety six. Its predecessor was the Tulsa Star.
The owner of that Mr. Smitherman, fled because of the
terror that he experienced and left behind press and equipment
(06:25):
value at that time in excess of dollars in the ashes.
His business manager, Mr. Baldwin, recouped his equipment and started
the oaklahom Egle. Both those predecessor publishers were known for
their fourth rightness and publishing the un honest truth about
(06:47):
occurrences within the community. Because of their outspokenness in speaking
truth to power, they were sought after its being undesirables.
My name is Terry Acts. I am a filmmaker here
on Greenwood. Also, I am a tour guide for the
Greenwood Chamber of Column and I have little for Greenwood.
(07:08):
Always am. Growing up in tuls Olhoma. At eight years old,
I used to walk two miles and come and get
the Eagle newspaper to sail. The buildings that you see
left now they call it Greenwood property. Those buildings was
built after the massacre. You really can't tell the story
unless you talk about slavery. The Indian Removal Act in
(07:31):
which the biot civilized tribes gravitated to Oklahoma four start
by Andrew Jackson. It was called Indian Territory, but they
brought with them thousands of slaves. My family been on
this land before Oklahoma was a state. I have sovereign
citizenship in the Maskogee Creek Nation by way of my
(07:52):
paternal grandmother. Later on oil and gas was discovered. The
delegation from Washington aim to the five civilized tribes and
wanted to tribe to voluntearily become US citizens, and they decline.
The government decided, well, since you guys fought against us,
(08:12):
you were fighting for the Confederacy, we don't have to
abide by any treat as we made. And so they
decided to far so with the Indian land and individual ownership.
And when that happened, if you were residing in Indian Territory,
whether you were African, American or Indian, you were a
lotted a hundred and sixty acres of land or three acres.
(08:35):
As a result of that allocation, you had over thirty
all black towns. The land is an asset, and this
land was rich in minerals because this is an oil
and gas state, and so you have black folks owned
in the land. Right land is the most power you
can have. It was the most affluent because of all that,
(08:56):
just that money trickled down in the old industry. Ironically,
Jim Crow was a social construct that was intended to
continue to deprive black folks from opportunity. But because of
the racist attitudes of we don't trade with you, we
don't read our lives, black folks had the resources. They
(09:18):
traded amongst themselves, and green with them began to flourish.
So they leeved in that prosperity at that moment when
it was on green mood, you know, and it was
a real true community. To Greenwood made apparent that racial
white superiority was a massive white lie. So they came
(09:38):
in and destroyed it. Over a period of eighteen hours,
it was destroyed. How does your jealousy t tho people
were displaced put into internment camps. The propaganda was that
it was a riot, and of course it's onrey, but
recent that it's been nominated as a massacre. So when
(10:00):
the massacre happened right in days and weeks after of it,
people was missing. Right. I couldn't go till deserved that
my uncle Johnny is missing, because I'm gonna come a
missing And so that's why it's been hush hush for
all these years. Right, So this is a memorial. They
knew enough to put this up. Now we can have
(10:21):
memorials everywhere because we're gonna talk about it. Newspapers today,
with a few exceptions, don't advocate. They accommodate because of
their add customers. Somebody has to pay more attention to
(10:43):
the elimination of the disparity because if we don't, our
own system of government is strength. Our duty as a
profession and our duty as American citizens is the fight
for the rights of all and that there'll be equal
opportunity by a position the resources and to fight back
legal efforts that book stunt, stall or eliminate that opportunity.
(11:21):
Thank you so much for tuning in Money Moves audience.
If you want more or a recap of this episode,
please go to the bank Greenwood dot com and check
out the Money Moves podcast blog. Money Moves is an
I Heart radio podcast powered by Greenwood executive produced by
Sunwise Media Inc. For more podcasts on I heart Radio,
(11:43):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts from.
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