November 17, 2025 • 50 mins
Why did it take so long to catch LISK? In this episode Josh revisits his 2015 interview with Dave Schaller, which has never been heard before, and with the help of Robert Kolker and Gus Garcia-Roberts, he investigates how corruption, cover-ups, and toxic leadership within Suffolk County law enforcement may have buried the tip of the century -- a Green Chevrolet Avalanche.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
New episodes are released weekly absolutely free, but you can
binge the entire season now with iHeart True Crime Plus
exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free listening
and exclusive bonus episodes, So head to Apple Podcasts, search
iheartrue Crime Plus and subscribe. Today you're listening to Monster
(00:27):
Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions
expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals
participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of
Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which
may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in
very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the
mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the
perpetrators capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not
by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness
of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert, Marine, Brainerd Barnes,
(01:12):
Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholemey Amberlin Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack,
Karen Viergatta, Asian Doe, Sandra Castilla, Tanya Denise Jackson and
Tatiana Marie Dykes.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I'm an ol P eight the Fairway. I live on
the Shannon Gilbert. But you would help me?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
How?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Please? So much?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And right well? I had didn matter that night to
Leanna forgave here what I really am? Man. If they
can't find out, h what did you then? Joe Bower.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
On May one, twenty ten, Shannon Gilbert ran from Joseph
Brewer's house and vanished somewhere in Oak Beach. Nearly twenty
months later, the remains were found in a neighboring marsh.
While medical examiners ruled Shannon's cause of death is undetermined,
Suffolk County PD refused to release her nine one one
(02:23):
tape for years, claiming it was quote evidence, well at
the same time claiming her death was accidental. Finally, after
more than a decade of legal battles and public pressure,
her nine to one one call was released in May
of twenty twenty two. But rather than clarifying the mystery,
the recording only added fuel to the fire, sparking a
(02:46):
renewed debate about what really happened to Shannon on that
faithful night.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Stay please Yeah, there's somebody answering.
Speaker 6 (02:56):
I'm sorry, there's somebody answering where are you.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
There's somebody asswer it if it wasn't.
Speaker 8 (03:03):
There, Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What we know for certain is that Joseph Brewer and
Shannon's driver, Michael Pack had tried to get Shannon to
leave Brewer's house, but she refused. Moments later, she ran
(03:26):
out of that house and into the streets of Oak Beach.
Speaker 9 (03:29):
Gilbert got lost in that marshland and died, the investigators
pointing out Gilbert suffered from mental illness and substance abuse.
On the nine to one one call, you hear Gilbert
claiming that someone wants to kill her and later running
for help.
Speaker 10 (03:46):
Listen, I'm gonna simplify everything right now.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
It's a horrible accident.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It's tragic, which brings us to the inherent problem in
solving any crime, because everything is subjective, even the true truth.
Consider Shannon's nine one one call. Listening to the exact
same evidence, people draw completely opposite conclusions. Some here a
woman terrified running for her life.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Your people are fallings of women?
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Where in mores?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Are you ill?
Speaker 11 (04:19):
Hell?
Speaker 7 (04:23):
Why do I do this?
Speaker 12 (04:24):
Three?
Speaker 13 (04:35):
It was murder?
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I don't care what anybody says.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
This was murder, while others here a woman incoherent and mumbling,
seemingly in the middle of a mental health crisis.
Speaker 9 (04:47):
Are you in a house?
Speaker 14 (04:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (04:50):
Whose house is it?
Speaker 15 (04:52):
Hello?
Speaker 9 (04:55):
Who is Mike?
Speaker 7 (04:56):
What's his last name?
Speaker 9 (04:58):
Who?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Mike?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Why?
Speaker 16 (05:04):
Gilbert, who police say had a history of substance abuse
and mental illness at times, seemed incoherent.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
On the tape, Shannon was physically calm, but acting very paranoid.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Something freaked through out she looks free thought.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
The problem with trying to solve any mystery is that
all too often we filter reality through what we already believe.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Or want to believe.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Since the release of Shannon's nine to one one call,
there's been little evidence to illuminate what may have happened
to her. More So, an independent autopsy performed by celebrity
pathologist doctor Michael Boden, performed at the request of the family,
only makes things murkier. Boden's report rules that Shannon's cause
(05:49):
of death is undetermined, the same conclusion of the Suffolk
County Medical Examiner. However, with one caveat, nothing in his
analysis rules out the possible ability of homicidal strangulation, a
vague enough assessment that seems tailor made for multiple interpretations.
Speaker 17 (06:08):
And one of the most vexing questions of all is
whatever happened to Shannon Gilbert?
Speaker 16 (06:13):
More than half a decade of unanswered questions about how
Shannon Gilbert died and whether or not her death is
connected to the so called Gilgo.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Beach murders, And then there's one more piece of evidence
that may shed light on Shannon's demise. On July twenty third,
twenty sixteen, Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert had been found brutally
stabbed to death by her own daughter, Sarah Gilbert, who
(06:42):
had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and was in the midst
of a psychotic episode.
Speaker 10 (06:48):
Whoa Moga Love that.
Speaker 9 (06:55):
Sarah struggled with mental illness, which deepened in recent months,
but Marine never stopped trying to help.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
This tragic pattern of mental illness in the Gilbert family
corroborates what police have always maintained about Shannon's final hours.
But if the nine one one tape supported Suffolk County's
claim that Shannon's death was accidental, why was it withheld
for years under the excuse of protecting an act of investigation.
(07:24):
The question isn't simply whether Shannon Gilbert was murdered or
died accidentally. The question is why would Suffolk County Police
Department continue to stoke the flames of conspiracy by not
releasing the tape?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Try getting crazy and uh they.
Speaker 18 (07:43):
Looked out the boat.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
As for Shannon, regardless of whatever did happen that night,
there's at least one truth. No one can deny whether
she died accidentally or by some other means, Shannon Gilbert
is still a victim, a victim of prejudice, of apathy,
and the corruption that allowed the Long Island serial killer
and the likes of Joel Rifkin, Robert Schulman, John Bitroff,
(08:11):
and so many others to keep on killing. While we
may never know the whole truth behind the tragedy of
Shannon Gilbert, what's clear is that without her sacrifice, it's
highly unlikely the police would have ever searched Ocean Parkway
all those years ago, and the bodies of ten victims
(08:31):
may never have been found, and ultimately, the alleged rex
Huerman may never have been caught. I'm Josh Zeeman, and
this is monster hunting. The Long Island serial killer. While
(09:15):
we might never solve the mystery of Shannon Gilbert, there
was still that other mystery that continues to haunt us.
That lingering question I've asked myself so many times since
that day back in July of twenty twenty three, when
I first heard that Suffolk County Detectives I'd finally arrested
the Long Island serial killer, the alleged Rex Hewerman, after
(09:38):
more than a decade.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
What took so goddamn long?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And now seeing the culmination of our investigation, it's time
we finally answered that question.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
As we returned to our evidence one last time, breaking
news to bring you.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
Police have made an arrest in the Gilgo Beach murders investigation.
Speaker 15 (10:00):
Police and the County executive are holding a press coll
Let's listen in.
Speaker 19 (10:05):
I want the public to know that we have never
stopped working on this case. I want to thank the
Suffa County Police Department. I want to thank District Attorney
Ray Tierney and his team, the New York State Police,
the FBI, and all of the law enforcement.
Speaker 10 (10:20):
Partners investigators saying how modern police work led to the
arrest of the suspect. Once we were able to attach
the Avalanche inside of that massive equal box.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
That was a moment where we said, okay, there's something here.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
The official version of Catching Lisk suggests a case that
was solved by old fashioned police work, cutting edge technology,
and a combination of tenacity and teamwork. And officials aren't wrong.
The Gilgo Beach Task Force did an incredible job. An
incredible job that is entangling one of the most bungled
serial killer investigations in modern history. And while they are
(10:58):
endless threads as to what went wrong, we've uncovered one
thread worth pulling on, one that helps him ravel the
mystery of whether this case could have been solved sooner,
which brings us back to our twenty fifteen interview with
Dave Shaller, the roommate of Amberlyn Costello, one of the
(11:18):
gill Go.
Speaker 20 (11:19):
For I told the cops about everybody, you know. There
was one guy who came there. He was a monster.
This guy was big. I had to fight him to
get him out of the house. And he was driving
a green h what how was I think called green avalanche?
A Chevy Avalanche truck. There was only like a couple
of weeks before, right before she disappeared. That that guy
was there.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So you believe that she had met him on some
kind of outcohol or in call before.
Speaker 20 (11:42):
The alcohol or include definitely, and that green Avalanche bro
stands out in my fucking mind to this day because
those cops, man, they reacted so like, you know, when
I point that thing out, they were like, you know,
you could see the fucking lump in that throat. You
know something about that guy, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
From Dave's very first interview with detectives, conducted days after
Amber was identified in December twenty ten, he gave a
description of a possible killer and his vehicle, a tip
that the Suffolk County PD has since admitted was in
their case files from the beginning, a tip which they
claim had been overlooked.
Speaker 16 (12:19):
David Shallard spoke with homicide detectives more than a decade ago.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Investigators had a description of a Chevrolet Avalanche in their
case files since twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
But this wasn't just one clue seemingly lost in a
sea of police reports. We now know that Dave's description
was corroborated by another witness, we presume, a neighbor who
also saw quote a dark colored pickup truck coming from
the direction Amber was last seen, prompting detectives to reinterview
Dave Shaller. Months later.
Speaker 20 (12:52):
The cops came to Brooklyn and they pulled out a
board with a whole bunch of trucks on it, and
one of the trucks was green ass Avalanche. He said,
does any of these trucks stand out to you? And
I went like this to point it out, the Green Avalanche,
and they both looked at each other with a fucking
look on their face, like like an old fuck look
like it was the fucking tip of the sentry.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Tip of the century when that Dave Shaller gives not once,
but twice, a tip corroborated by another eyewitness describing the
same vehicle on the night Amber disappears. In twenty twenty three,
the author of Lost Girls, Robert Kolker, reported that detectives
had entered the Chevy Avalanche into a vehicle database, but
(13:36):
due to the vehicle's unique design with features of both
a car and a truck, the search came up empty.
Do you think they just didn't take this clue?
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Seriously, there's a lot we don't know.
Speaker 7 (13:48):
I was told they ran a search and the search
didn't come up with anything, but new records get filed
in strange ways, and whole new classes of car get
invented in that time, cars that aren't a truck and
cars that aren't car. It's very possible that the Avalanche
was just not signedable through the search that they did.
It's possible that after running the search, they just back
(14:09):
burnered it and they got away from them.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
But how could they not take such a concrete lead seriously? Well,
it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. We didn't
take Dave's clues seriously either, so why did we miss it?
Speaker 9 (14:25):
Well?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Back in a previous episode, we mentioned how Dave and
Amber supposedly pulled what's called the angry boyfriend scam on
a John supposedly Rex, a scam that led to a
brawl at Dave's house sometime.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Before Amber disappeared.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Now, according to police, Amber gets a text from that
same John later that night saying that was not nice.
Do I get credit for next time? But John doesn't
want to go back to the house because he's afraid
of quote Amber's boyfriend. Now, Dave says it wasn't actually
a scam, just that he and Rex had gotten into
a fight regardless. That's as far as this first story goes.
(15:04):
But then Dave tells us a second story about the
night Amber disappeared.
Speaker 20 (15:09):
So this guy kept colling and she kept talking all
sorts of jazz with him and stuff. She said, he
wants me once for the night, once and for the night.
Did he throw money at it, yeah, fifteen hundred dollars.
I remember telling her it's a lot of money. It
doesn't sound right. And she was comfortable with him. I
remember that the level of comfort she had with him
was strange. I didn't feel right about it. So it
(15:29):
was always little stipulations. You had to pick her up
around the corner. I said, well, I can't the guy
you know pick you up in front of the house.
And they were all just like red flags. She didn't care.
She left that night just the clothes on her back,
no peris, no phone, no nothing, which was odd of
itself too. And that night I'm just playing it in
my head and I'm like, I don't understand what happened
(15:49):
that night.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But here's the point. Dave wasn't one hundred percent sure
that the two Johns were connected, but he also said
it was weeks between that earlier fight and the night
Amber went missing.
Speaker 20 (16:03):
It was only like a couple weeks before, right before
she disapeared, that that guy was there.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
We thought, there's no way this elusive killer who took
all these precautions wouldever show his face to Dave and
then come back weeks later to snatch Amber. But now
it seems it wasn't weeks later, it was the next day,
which makes this fight with this angry John far more relevant.
Speaker 20 (16:26):
Well, this guy went from normal to three hundred and
sixty degrees, you know, I mean, just when fucking not
started throwing shit around my house.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Because now we know why this killer, allegedly Rex, would
do something so risky, because his ego had been bruised
because Amber had not only tried to scam him, she
had humiliated him, and now he was going to make
her pay. What's even more damning recently released court documents
suggesting that detectives did know was the next day, making
(16:57):
the fact that they had missed this connection all the
more frustrating.
Speaker 16 (17:02):
Schaller's hold investigators a decade ago that he came face
to face with Rex Ywerman quote. I gave them the
exact description of the truck I mean, come on, why
didn't they use that?
Speaker 6 (17:15):
The point is, if they had followed the avalanche tip,
then God forbid, more victims could still be alive if
they had made the arrest back then.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
In twenty twelve, Dave Shaller publicly admitted that he was
quote too high to remember that day, which may account
for the time discrepancy.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Yet he still maintains it was weeks before.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Regardless, his avalanche clue and the detective's reactions spoke volumes,
so much so they even took the time to create
a truck lineup on a board. Yet after striking out
with this database, the tip was theoretically forgotten.
Speaker 21 (17:51):
Benefamation came in at the beginning of the investigation in
twenty ten and twenty eleven, along with what was really
thousands of tips, and unfortunately it gets lost and buried.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But Suffa County had more than just a potential description
of the Long Island serial killer and his car. As
you remember, they also had a potential location of where
he lived and worked.
Speaker 17 (18:14):
Let's bring back former District attorney in Suffolk County, Tim Ciny.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Tim, you know a lot more about this than I do.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
What's going on here?
Speaker 22 (18:20):
Certainly Massapeka was on the radars early as twenty twelve,
and the FBI was able to pinpoint the areas that
the killer was connected to, both in the Massapico Park
as well as Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
But even without the FBI's help, detectives knew about Massapequa
Park from the very first interviews they did with Melissa
Bartholemew's mother Lynn.
Speaker 8 (18:41):
When I had Melissa's phone records, there was a lot
of calls in and out from Massapequa, which I don't
have those records because the police confiscated my book of
all my investigation.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Tell me about what happened with that. Please.
Speaker 8 (18:57):
They came to Buffalo to meet with us, and we
were telling them about my book and all the investigating
we did. You know, we went to Verizon, we got
all her phone records, and so they were like, well,
can we take a look at this book, and we
showed it to him and that was the last time
it was in my hands. They just said, this is
now evidence.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yet despite having a description of this monster, his Green
Avalanche and Massapequa Park, they continued to let the tip
slip away over and over again. Recently, we spoke with
Gus Garcia Roberts, the author of Jimmy the King and
former investigative reporter with The Washington Post at the time
of Rex's arrest.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
What was the official.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Line from law enforcement about the revelation that this tip
was in the files?
Speaker 23 (19:47):
We started calling, you know, everybody who we knew had
been investigators on the case at that time, in those
early days, and just asking him, you know, are you
familiar with this Chevy Avalanche tip. The kind of consensus
that we heard from these investigators was that they had
no recollection of there being this tip involving a Green Avalanche,
(20:13):
never heard of it, don't know what that is at all.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
That was the answer.
Speaker 16 (20:16):
Tyranny, who became DA in twenty twenty two, explains why
the tip got buried.
Speaker 14 (20:22):
When they're getting that, that's lost within a sea of
other tips and information, and at the time there wasn't
really any coherent leadership at the top.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Of course, Tierney isn't wrong blaming the previous DA Tom
Spoda and his sidekick, Police Chief James Burke, as it's
been reported, instead of investigating the Gilgo case, Burke has
detectives spying on professional and personal rivals for both himself
and SPODA and then came Burke's assault of a prisoner
(20:53):
and cover up. But maybe the most damning reason critics
point to with spodin Burke's blatant obstruction of the FBI.
Speaker 15 (21:02):
Burke was heavily criticized by other law enforcement officials for
his handling of the case.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Over a decade ago, he refused.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
And blocked federal law enforcement from working on the Gilgo
Beach serial murder case.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
In twenty thirteen, we interviewed former Commissioner Richard Dormer about
his initial meetings with the FBI.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Just days after the tenth body was found.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Day came up to Suffi County. I think it was
three or four of their analysts sat down with our
task force, and they had very good ideas on how
the investigation should be conducted. I mean, let's face it,
they're the experts in this thing. This was unusual, yeah,
I mean it's not every day that the Suffi County
PD would investigate a case like this.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Once Dormer retired in twenty eleven, the FBI's assistance was
either minimized or flatly refused, even a request by federal
agents to track lists personal phone by using his burner
phone was denied by SPODA. The bad blood between the
Burkes BODA regime and the FBI came to a head
in December twenty twelve, when two detectives sent a memo
(22:05):
requesting a third meeting with the BAU Again.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
Here's Robert Kolker.
Speaker 7 (22:11):
Someone in the Suffocunty Police Department invites the Behavioral Now
Unit to come out in person, and when they show up,
Spoda has them turn around and fly back home. He
said their work was redundant. They were turned away on
the airfield.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And all of this happening in the shadow of Burke's
assault on prisoner Chris Lobe for stealing a Duffel bag
of quote nasty porn. In fact, this memo requesting the
FBI's help was dated December seventh, twenty twelve. Just one
week later Burke assaulted Chris Lobe, suggesting the powers that
be were trying to contain the fallout from this violent
(22:50):
beating when they sent the FBI packing.
Speaker 19 (22:53):
The federal authorities should be in this case. Apparently they'd
been boxed out and told stay away by Suffolk County.
Speaker 17 (23:02):
Cases like this is when you have everyone working together
instead not saying keep the FBI away from this.
Speaker 9 (23:08):
We don't want them. What that makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
While working with the FBI might have led to a
suspect sooner. In truth, profiles don't actually solve cases. It's
usually gumshoe detective work. Just look at David Burkwoit's who
was caught by way of a parking ticket or Bundy
an expired registration. Profiles usually just tell detectives where to look.
(23:33):
Yet Suffolk County already knew where to look in Massapequa Park.
The same could be said for this highly touted geographical box,
which was ultimately unnecessary because detectives already had everything they
needed to solve this case right from the start, and
yet they didn't. Here's both Robert Kolker and Gus Garcia.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
Roberts the one source I talked to who remembers the
avalanche tip from.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Way back when. What he did not say was we
really racked our brains.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
We searched high and lowe, We went looking for that
avalanche on every square foot of Suffolk County, and then
we just threw up our hands and walked away because
we had other things to do. What he said was
they ran a search and they couldn't find it clearly
that it did more than that, because the investigating cops
were coming back to Dave for confirmation of this lead,
So that must have been taken seriously at some point.
Speaker 23 (24:27):
It's maddening, honestly, the case is so botched that you
can't blame people who kind of arrive at the assumption
that has botched on purpose.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
So why didn't Suffolk County police catch list sooner? It's
a question that's haunted us from the very first moment
the alleged recked Huerman was arrested. But now having scrutinized
Dave Shaller's interview, we can finally search for the devil
in the d tales as in, specifically, why was this
clue never followed up on? And why did Suffolk County
superiors not know about it? Or did they? And if so,
(25:11):
why was that clue filed away? Was it the result
of incompetence or something more? In reality, these are questions
only Gilgo detectives can I answer.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Or at least a detective. We spent more than two decades.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Commanding one of the most demanding cold case squads Joe jackalone.
Speaker 13 (25:30):
Coming from this line of work, this is a mistake
that you cannot afford to make. I mean, this is
something where you had the clues readily available. In my experience,
I think this would have been an automatic reach out
to the New York State Police, tell them we need
this done. How many green avalanches in Massapequa and I
want all the driver's license photos on my desk by
the time I get back. The Chief of Detectives himself
(25:52):
probably would have called the state Police superintendent said I
need this done now, please. I don't know people saying
I'll come on, Joe, No, listen. A couple of the
detectives that I worked for, this case would have been
wrapped up in twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Don't you think this clue would have been at least
forwarded on to the sergeant and lieutenant absolutely?
Speaker 13 (26:09):
Remember even in Suffocunty, smaller departments to chain the command
always exists, but.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
It's a lot shorter.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
What's the percentage that it would have went up to
Chief of Detectives at that time?
Speaker 5 (26:19):
It should have been one hundred percent.
Speaker 13 (26:20):
It's just Suffolk County where something like this doesn't happen
very often.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
And yet, according to one unnamed source who started overseeing
the case in twenty eleven, it was quote beyond weird
that he wasn't made aware of Shaller's statement. In another
article from Gus Garcia Robertson, the chief of detectives, Dominic
Varon states, quote, I'll tell you right now, no suspect
vehicle was on our radar when I was still there,
(26:48):
which is why we pushed Gus for his thoughts.
Speaker 23 (26:51):
On Varonns statement, I don't think he is lying, because
I think if he was lying about it, he would
probably be smart enough to know that something like this
would emerge that would call into question why he was
saying that.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
But what if Veron truly didn't know about this ogre
and the avalanche. What if these detectives who questioned Shaller
over and over again withheld this clue from their superiors
because they were instructed to by the man who would
later become their boss, James Burke, who along with DA Spoda,
was plotting their takeover of the Suffolk County Police Department,
(27:29):
a plot that begins with that very strange fight you
might remember, a fight over one serial killer verse two.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
Suffix Police Commissioner Richard Dormer and DA Tom Spoda publicly
clashed over the Gilgo Beach body's case before a legislative committee.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
First, the Commissioner reiterated his theory, we still believe it's
one killer. Then the DA quickly shot that down.
Speaker 24 (27:52):
There's no evidence that all of the remains found are
the work of a single killer.
Speaker 11 (27:58):
And Spoda denounced the commission for going public with his theory.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
It really truly is disturbing.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
It just makes a very difficult investigation even more difficult.
Speaker 21 (28:08):
Ten bodies, no suspects, moneral They are ten ten wins.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
In hotpog.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
We now know this public argument was just one piece
of Burke and Spoda's Macabellian plan to have Burke installed
as the new police chief so that he and Spoda
could take over the police Department and with it, all
of Suffolk County. But first, according to Robert Kolker, they
had a force out Commissioner Dormer and the man who
(28:34):
appointed him, the county executive, Steve Levy.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
In the spring of twenty eleven, when Tom Spoda is
publicly lambasting the police commissioner, he also is inches away
from engineering a slow motion takeover of the police department,
and that begins with neutralizing his big rival who has
the power to appoint the police commissioner.
Speaker 21 (28:57):
Newly unsealed federal court documents revealing a shocking plot to
take down self at county executive Steve Levy. According to
the papers, Thomas Spoda was working with James Burke to
get Levy out of office because they saw him as uncontrollable.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Uncontrollable because, as gus Garcia Roberts reveals, they knew there
was no way Steve Levy whatever point James Burke to
police chief considering his checkered past.
Speaker 23 (29:24):
James Burke was Chief of Investigators for the DA's office
under Tom Spoda, and Steve Levy was the enormously popular
county executive. Burke really would not have survived the vetting
needed to be a commissioner. So James Burke kind of
leads this extremely shadowy investigation of Steve Levy, which probably
(29:47):
involved blackmail, and the guy who rises up in that
vacuum and becomes county executive is Steve Bolone. The very
first thing that Bologne does, against advice from others, is
he appoints James Burke to be police chief.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
So, going back to the start of this takeover with
SPODA trying to publicly humiliate Dormer. Could Burke be telling
Gilgo detectives hold tight, he's going to be police chief
in nine months, but don't pass up any leads to
Chief of Detectives Dominic Vverome, because he's Dormer's guy, and
God forbid they solve the case under his watch.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 23 (30:26):
I mean, honestly, I find that compelling. I think that
makes a ton of sense. He would not want this
case to be solved under his enemies jurisdiction. It would
completely undermine the selling point that Dormer and Levy were
poor solving crimes.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We're not suggesting that Burke instructed detectives to bury the
Green Avalanche tip, but just not to share any leads
in the off chance it would lead to a suspect
and a win for Dormer. It's a theory that Rob Trum,
a former detective now Suffolk legislator, has corroborated in interviews
just after Human's arrest.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
I think what happened was, and I know this firsthand,
was I've talked to retired inspectors in chiefs. They were
unaware that the car was there. They were unaware that
there was a six foot bore male as a suspect.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
They were not being told.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
This, adding further corroboration to Trotta's comments. When Burke took
over his chief, he immediately fired Veron. But why at
that point didn't detectives finally action the Green Avalanche tip?
More so, why did detectives who kept reinterviewing Dave Shaller
for more than a year and a half suddenly stop?
Speaker 20 (31:42):
The cops stopped coming for some reason.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
When's the last time other cops were in contact with you?
Speaker 5 (31:47):
It's been a long time.
Speaker 20 (31:48):
It's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Three year, four years, Yeah.
Speaker 20 (31:51):
Three years or so. I actually left the message for
them like two years ago.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Never got back to me back in twenty fifteen. Three
years or so meant twenty twelve, which coincides with Burke
replacing Commissioner Dormer on January first, twenty twelve, and just
like that, his takeover is complete and the tip of
the century is buried even deeper.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Here's Robert Kolker.
Speaker 7 (32:19):
I think Burke makes a bad situation worse. You have
a department that already is kind of paralyzed because Spoda
is taking control of it, and then Spoda puts the
worst possible person in charge of that department, someone who
isn't going to lift a finger to try and find
this killer. And then Burke beats up a witness in
front of a handful of other people, and suddenly they
(32:41):
have to spend the next year trying to shut everybody up,
and it's all downhill from there. It's a frying pan
into the fire situation, and it takes years to recover from.
He was gone by twenty sixteen, and then this task
perce didn't come in until twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Tragically, we may never know the answer as to what
really happened to the Tip of the century and why
it was lost for so long. As for finally catching list,
you might say the biggest step the Gilgo Beach Task
Force ever took to overcome the mistakes of the past
was also the simplest. To start digitizing their files.
Speaker 14 (33:16):
First thing we did was digitalize it. I mean, you
have thirteen years of investigation. If you don't digitalize it,
if you don't make it searchable, then you have to
manually go through literally reams of paperwork.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
So then you go through it.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Less than one month after the task Force started digging
into their files, they came across the tip that Dave
Shaller had given them eleven years ago.
Speaker 25 (33:41):
That investigator started this assignment in February of twenty twenty two.
In March of twenty twenty two, this same New York
State Police investigator reported that a potential suspect had been identified.
This suspect was res Pureman.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
The tip that had been there all along, presumably right
in his first few boxes. They pulled off the shelf
right on top of the proverbial pile. But even after
more than a decade of this malfeastans that allowed rex
Hureman to roam free, and even with Tom Spoda and
James Burke serving prison sentences, as gus Garcia Roberts tells us,
(34:22):
the mistakes of the past were tragically unlikely to be
learned from.
Speaker 23 (34:27):
There was this kind of willful ignorance after Burke was
brought down, as Voto was brought down, like Okay, now
we're going to be a regular law enforcement jurisdiction again.
But I think it would be naive to think that
that's not something that's continuing. The cops are still in
Suffolk County among the highest paid in the nation. They're
extremely powerful. The voting block that the police have is
(34:51):
really unique out in Long Island because holder of NYPD
lives out in Long Island. You combine that with the
Long Island departments and you have a really powerful, massive
moneyed voting block that hasn't changed. And that's what led
to the rise of James Burke. Right, was this political
power that the police had. So considering that that hasn't changed,
(35:13):
I don't see the police impunity changing.
Speaker 12 (35:17):
This case was investigated through five Suffolk Police Commissioners, three
Suffolk das, and two Suffolk County executives, and the breakthrough
came after looking at existing evidence. So I've been asked,
could this or should this case have been solved earlier?
Speaker 14 (35:35):
Well, you know, as I've been saying, I took office
in January Accounty.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
In September twenty twenty five, the Suffolk County DA ruled
a major victory in the upcoming trial against Rex Huerman
when the judge ruled to allow d evidence obtained through
cutting edge technology known as whole genome sequencing. Since New
York State doesn't have the death penalty, Hureerman could face
life without the possibility of parole, but if he's convicted,
(36:14):
his DNA will be entered into COTIS, the FBI's national
DNA database, and if that profile matches unsolved murders in
death penalty states like South Carolina or Nevada, where heroman
owns property, he could face capital charges.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
D A.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Tierney has said there's.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
No plea deal on the table, but in cases like this,
there's always that possibility.
Speaker 16 (36:37):
This case inches toward trial.
Speaker 21 (36:40):
Rex hwer Men is accused and the murders of seven women.
Speaker 17 (36:44):
This is a case that has taken so many years
to get to where we are, and there are still
so many questions.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Rex Hureman's trial is expected to begin sometime in twenty
twenty six, and we'll be there to cover it. As
of this recording, he's been charged with murders, but the
four other victims remain open cases. Tatiana Marie Diyke's formerly
known as Baby Dough, and the victim once called Asian
Doe fall under Suffolk County Karen Ergatta and Tanya Denise
(37:14):
Jackson ak Peaches or Nassau County cases. It's still unclear
whether NASA has enough evidence to move forward with indictments.
It's also believed that authorities have identified Asian Doe, but
still haven't released his name.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
And then there's Valerie Mack.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Six of the seven murders who Reman is charged with
were believed to have taken place in his home, except
for hers, which raises the possibility of another kill site
and potentially more victims, a theory suggested by former police
Commissioner Richard Dormer all the way back in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 26 (37:54):
I've always expressed a feeling that there may be more
bodies out there, and that he may be using another
dumping ground. I believe he hasn't stopped. Okay, he needs this,
his psyche needs this. Does he have a new dumping ground?
I would say yes.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Another outstanding question is whether we're going to learn more
about James Burke's alleged obstruction in the Gilgo case. It's
assume Human's defense is going to introduce Burke, or at
least his past deeds a trial in an effort to
so reasonable doubt as to whether Human is solely responsible
for the crimes. As for Burke, he's been making headlines
(38:33):
of his own in recent years.
Speaker 15 (38:36):
James Burke was once the highest ranking uniformed officer in
the Suffolk County Police Department. Today, the former police chief
pled not guilty to charges of public lewdness and indecent
exposure after getting caught in an undercover stink in August.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Disgrace Foreign Police chief James Burke, released from jail in
twenty nineteen after serving just forty months for assault and
instruction of justice, was arrested again.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
In twenty twenty three after.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Allegedly soliciting sex and masturbating in front of a plane
closed park ranger at ten am in the morning at
a Long Island park.
Speaker 10 (39:13):
The former police chief was arrested just a few miles
from Gilgo Beach. Prosecutors say he tried to solicit a
sex act from a male undercover officer. He is said
to have pleaded with officers to spare him the humiliation
of an arrest, even asking do you know who I am?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
As for convicted and disbarred district attorney Tom Spoda. After
his release from prison, he worked as an administrative clerk
under the supervision of hot shot criminal defense attorney Anthony Lepinta,
who had previously defended him in court. It's been reported
that Spoda's duties are part of his work Release.
Speaker 24 (39:50):
Program Suffix, former district attorney, has been released from a
federal prison. This comes less than three years and to
Thomas Spoda's five year sentence. As we've reported, the eighty
ti year old was convicted in twenty nineteen of trying
to cover up then Suffolk Police chief James Burke's beating
of a handcuffed suspect.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Systemic corruption takes a notoriously long time to undo, not years,
but decades, and by all indications, the convictions of James
Burke and Tom Spoda haven't had the kind of impact
many of us had hoped for. Case in point, James Burke,
a convicted felon, still receives a taxpayer funded pension of
(40:32):
one hundred and forty five thousand dollars a year. Thomas
Spoda one hundred and twenty three thousand dollars a year,
and that's not even counting the nearly four hundred and
thirty five thousand dollars Burke walked away with in twenty
sixteen for unused sick in vacation time. Here's Jimmy the
(40:53):
King author Gus Garcia Roberts with his take.
Speaker 23 (40:57):
I think that people are always surprised to learn that
he's still gets a pension, if I remember correctly, one
hundred and fifty grand a year.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
How can that be?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I mean, you're talking about a guy who single handedly
helped bring down Suffolk County Police Department.
Speaker 23 (41:11):
Not only that, but all the other cops involved in
his conspiracy still get pensions too, including people who are
convicted of felonies. In that case, I think once that
gets moral light and people understand that, then maybe outrage
will grow.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Nor does it seem like the Suffolk County Police Department
has truly reckoned with this long complicated relationship with sex workers.
If anything, the problems still persists. Just four days before
writing this episode, a former Suffolk County detective played guilty,
admitting he worked as a pimp and a prostitution ring
that ran on Long Island from twenty nineteen to twenty
(41:49):
twenty four.
Speaker 8 (41:50):
Former Sufi police officer George Tremigliosi was among three people
who pleaded guilty. Today, they are accused of running prostitution brothels.
Speaker 17 (41:59):
It's being called a massive betrayal of public trust. A
suspended Suffolk police officer facing new charges of rape and
sexual abuse. This comes after he and three others were
charged with running an alleged prostitution ring.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Tremigliosi, who will be sentenced to two years incarceration for
promoting prostitution, was an eighteen year veteran of the Suffolk
County and Police Department and had won Cop of the
Month six times. Seems as much as things change, they
stayed the same. Last summer, I went to my first
(42:38):
pretrial hearings in the Gigo Beach case, and I remember
the murmur that went through the crowd as Rex was
let into the courtroom. I admit I wanted that thrill
of seeing a real life monster in the flesh. And yes,
Rex was huge, his massive hand shackled behind his hulking back.
(42:58):
But what I saw instead was the true paradox of
Rex Hureman, because for someone so big, so massive, all
I saw was someone so weak and so small, too
weak to fight the rage that he gave into two,
weak to overcome the revenge he fantasized about, too weak
(43:21):
to seek help, and so instead he chose to inflict pain,
that same pain he once felt now onto so many others,
onto the victims, onto their families, onto their parents, sisters
and brothers, and worst of all their children, thus perpetuating
(43:41):
the cycle. Unable to fight the monsters, you might say
Rex chose to become one, but then we'd be giving
him too much credit, wouldn't we. Here's doctor Joni Johnston.
Speaker 27 (43:56):
We think all Rex human a monster, meaning he's otherworldly.
Then he's not like us. We can never be like
Rex hero because we're rural people. And the opposite of
that is true. I used to work in a max
security president and I'm going to do many murders and
I've never gone away being like, Wow, this guy seems
so powerful. He's like, no, You're given this person unnatural power,
(44:20):
even if it's evil power. And you're saying that this
person is so unique that we can never understand this person.
It's like, yeah, we can. You know, this person is
somebody who was unable to do in life what most
of us can do, which is learned to cope without
hurting other people. This is not a hard person to understand.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Doctor Johnston was right, because there's something about that day
Rex was arrested.
Speaker 5 (44:45):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
The minute I saw that photo of Rex, I remembered
that interview we did with Dave Shaller and this description
of the man he thought killed Amber, the man he
called the Beast, or Frankenstein, most importantly, a monster. That's
when I knew we'd fallen into that age old trap,
(45:07):
believing that List is something more an elusive boogeyman, an
evil genius, something he obviously was not. In fact, if
we realize back then just how easy he was to understand,
how he was just like us, fallible, impulsive human, then
(45:30):
who knows, maybe we could have caught him all those
years ago.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Here's Profiler Mark Saffreck.
Speaker 18 (45:39):
I think we give too much credit to these offenders.
We want to try to make Choirman out to be
like this super villain.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Right.
Speaker 18 (45:48):
He seems to be careful, like I got to destroy data,
I've got to wipe my hard drive, I've got to
burn all this evidence. But hey, let me just keep
all the newspaper articles in my safe. We see this
a lot when offenders just think they're untouchable. He's got
a air literally on almost all of his victims that
belongs to someone in his family, him, his wife, his daughter.
(46:11):
He's deceived law enforcement for seventeen years. But I think
there were a lot of other things that went along
with that. I think he could have been apprehended much
earlier on But I don't think that he survived seventeen
years because he's a super super smart guy.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
In the end, what allowed Rex Hureman, the alleged Long
Island serial killer, to get away with so much for
so long had nothing to do with how much he
researched or studied, or how carefully he planned. Wasn't that
he used burner cell phones or chose the perfect dumping ground,
or that he even changed his mo but allowed Rex
(46:51):
to get away with it wasn't anything he did. It's
what we did, and almost everything the police did. Whether
it's bitter irony or just dumb luck. The only thing
Rex Hureman, the alleged Long Island serial Killer, ever did
right was to pick the perfect place to commit his crimes.
(47:16):
Suffolk County, Long Island. Ready to keep listening, Remember you
(47:49):
can binge the rest of the season right now with
an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple
Podcasts Plus. You get exclusive bonuses and ad free listening.
So head to Apple Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus
and subscribe today. Hunting the Long Island serial Killer is
(48:16):
a production of Tenderfoot TV. And iHeart Podcasts, hosted, written
and executive produced by me Josh Zemon. Produced and written
by Caitlin Colford, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay, our executive
producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young,
our executive producers on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Original music
(48:40):
by Alex Lasarenko, David Little and makeup and Vanity Set
Our supervising producer is John Street. Editing and writing by
Daniel Lonsberry. Additional voiceover provided by Rachel Mills. Additional production
provided by Ghost Robot, Sound design, mix and master by
(49:01):
Daydon Cole. Cover design by Byron McCoy. Interns Arnetta Fontinat,
Shelby Hanson, Alec Walker and Fox Williams. Ana Television Networks LLC.
Audio from the Killing Season used under license copyright twenty
twenty five a Anda Television Networks LLC.
Speaker 5 (49:23):
All rights reserved.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Special thanks to the team at United Talent Agency, the
Nord Group, Brad Abramson, Todd Leebowitz, Rich Perrillo and Jigsaw Productions,
Rachel Mills, Zachary Mortensen, Jen Beegle, David Baker, Joe Jack
Alone and Evan Krause, as well as the teams at
iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media
(49:48):
at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts like Monster Hunting
the Long Island serial Killer, search Tenderfoot TV in your
podcast app or visit tenderfoot dot com tv.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
And if you want to keep
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Following my hunt for the Long Island serial Killer or
a deeper dive into my other true crime content, join
me on YouTube at Sinister with Josh Zemon
New episodes are released weekly absolutely free, but you can
binge the entire season now with iHeart True Crime Plus
exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad free listening
and exclusive bonus episodes, So head to Apple Podcasts, search
iheartrue Crime Plus and subscribe. Today you're listening to Monster
(00:27):
Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. The views and opinions
expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals
participating in the podcast and do not reflect those of
Tenderfoot TV or iHeartMedia. This podcast contains subject matter which
may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In this episode, we'll be talking about these victims in
very graphic terms. These details are crucial for proving the
mistakes and missed opportunities that could have led to the
perpetrators capture sooner. These individuals deserve to be remembered not
by the details of their deaths, but by the fullness
of their lives. They are Shannon Gilbert, Marine, Brainerd Barnes,
(01:12):
Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholemey Amberlin Costello, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack,
Karen Viergatta, Asian Doe, Sandra Castilla, Tanya Denise Jackson and
Tatiana Marie Dykes.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I'm an ol P eight the Fairway. I live on
the Shannon Gilbert. But you would help me?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
How?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Please? So much?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
And right well? I had didn matter that night to
Leanna forgave here what I really am? Man. If they
can't find out, h what did you then? Joe Bower.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
On May one, twenty ten, Shannon Gilbert ran from Joseph
Brewer's house and vanished somewhere in Oak Beach. Nearly twenty
months later, the remains were found in a neighboring marsh.
While medical examiners ruled Shannon's cause of death is undetermined,
Suffolk County PD refused to release her nine one one
(02:23):
tape for years, claiming it was quote evidence, well at
the same time claiming her death was accidental. Finally, after
more than a decade of legal battles and public pressure,
her nine to one one call was released in May
of twenty twenty two. But rather than clarifying the mystery,
the recording only added fuel to the fire, sparking a
(02:46):
renewed debate about what really happened to Shannon on that
faithful night.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Stay please Yeah, there's somebody answering.
Speaker 6 (02:56):
I'm sorry, there's somebody answering where are you.
Speaker 7 (03:01):
There's somebody asswer it if it wasn't.
Speaker 8 (03:03):
There, Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What we know for certain is that Joseph Brewer and
Shannon's driver, Michael Pack had tried to get Shannon to
leave Brewer's house, but she refused. Moments later, she ran
(03:26):
out of that house and into the streets of Oak Beach.
Speaker 9 (03:29):
Gilbert got lost in that marshland and died, the investigators
pointing out Gilbert suffered from mental illness and substance abuse.
On the nine to one one call, you hear Gilbert
claiming that someone wants to kill her and later running
for help.
Speaker 10 (03:46):
Listen, I'm gonna simplify everything right now.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
It's a horrible accident.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It's tragic, which brings us to the inherent problem in
solving any crime, because everything is subjective, even the true truth.
Consider Shannon's nine one one call. Listening to the exact
same evidence, people draw completely opposite conclusions. Some here a
woman terrified running for her life.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
Your people are fallings of women?
Speaker 9 (04:15):
Where in mores?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Are you ill?
Speaker 11 (04:19):
Hell?
Speaker 7 (04:23):
Why do I do this?
Speaker 12 (04:24):
Three?
Speaker 13 (04:35):
It was murder?
Speaker 5 (04:36):
I don't care what anybody says.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
This was murder, while others here a woman incoherent and mumbling,
seemingly in the middle of a mental health crisis.
Speaker 9 (04:47):
Are you in a house?
Speaker 14 (04:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (04:50):
Whose house is it?
Speaker 15 (04:52):
Hello?
Speaker 9 (04:55):
Who is Mike?
Speaker 7 (04:56):
What's his last name?
Speaker 9 (04:58):
Who?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Mike?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Why?
Speaker 16 (05:04):
Gilbert, who police say had a history of substance abuse
and mental illness at times, seemed incoherent.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
On the tape, Shannon was physically calm, but acting very paranoid.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Something freaked through out she looks free thought.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
The problem with trying to solve any mystery is that
all too often we filter reality through what we already believe.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Or want to believe.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Since the release of Shannon's nine to one one call,
there's been little evidence to illuminate what may have happened
to her. More So, an independent autopsy performed by celebrity
pathologist doctor Michael Boden, performed at the request of the family,
only makes things murkier. Boden's report rules that Shannon's cause
(05:49):
of death is undetermined, the same conclusion of the Suffolk
County Medical Examiner. However, with one caveat, nothing in his
analysis rules out the possible ability of homicidal strangulation, a
vague enough assessment that seems tailor made for multiple interpretations.
Speaker 17 (06:08):
And one of the most vexing questions of all is
whatever happened to Shannon Gilbert?
Speaker 16 (06:13):
More than half a decade of unanswered questions about how
Shannon Gilbert died and whether or not her death is
connected to the so called Gilgo.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Beach murders, And then there's one more piece of evidence
that may shed light on Shannon's demise. On July twenty third,
twenty sixteen, Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert had been found brutally
stabbed to death by her own daughter, Sarah Gilbert, who
(06:42):
had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and was in the midst
of a psychotic episode.
Speaker 10 (06:48):
Whoa Moga Love that.
Speaker 9 (06:55):
Sarah struggled with mental illness, which deepened in recent months,
but Marine never stopped trying to help.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
This tragic pattern of mental illness in the Gilbert family
corroborates what police have always maintained about Shannon's final hours.
But if the nine one one tape supported Suffolk County's
claim that Shannon's death was accidental, why was it withheld
for years under the excuse of protecting an act of investigation.
(07:24):
The question isn't simply whether Shannon Gilbert was murdered or
died accidentally. The question is why would Suffolk County Police
Department continue to stoke the flames of conspiracy by not
releasing the tape?
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Try getting crazy and uh they.
Speaker 18 (07:43):
Looked out the boat.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
As for Shannon, regardless of whatever did happen that night,
there's at least one truth. No one can deny whether
she died accidentally or by some other means, Shannon Gilbert
is still a victim, a victim of prejudice, of apathy,
and the corruption that allowed the Long Island serial killer
and the likes of Joel Rifkin, Robert Schulman, John Bitroff,
(08:11):
and so many others to keep on killing. While we
may never know the whole truth behind the tragedy of
Shannon Gilbert, what's clear is that without her sacrifice, it's
highly unlikely the police would have ever searched Ocean Parkway
all those years ago, and the bodies of ten victims
(08:31):
may never have been found, and ultimately, the alleged rex
Huerman may never have been caught. I'm Josh Zeeman, and
this is monster hunting. The Long Island serial killer. While
(09:15):
we might never solve the mystery of Shannon Gilbert, there
was still that other mystery that continues to haunt us.
That lingering question I've asked myself so many times since
that day back in July of twenty twenty three, when
I first heard that Suffolk County Detectives I'd finally arrested
the Long Island serial killer, the alleged Rex Hewerman, after
(09:38):
more than a decade.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
What took so goddamn long?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And now seeing the culmination of our investigation, it's time
we finally answered that question.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
As we returned to our evidence one last time, breaking
news to bring you.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
Police have made an arrest in the Gilgo Beach murders investigation.
Speaker 15 (10:00):
Police and the County executive are holding a press coll
Let's listen in.
Speaker 19 (10:05):
I want the public to know that we have never
stopped working on this case. I want to thank the
Suffa County Police Department. I want to thank District Attorney
Ray Tierney and his team, the New York State Police,
the FBI, and all of the law enforcement.
Speaker 10 (10:20):
Partners investigators saying how modern police work led to the
arrest of the suspect. Once we were able to attach
the Avalanche inside of that massive equal box.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
That was a moment where we said, okay, there's something here.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
The official version of Catching Lisk suggests a case that
was solved by old fashioned police work, cutting edge technology,
and a combination of tenacity and teamwork. And officials aren't wrong.
The Gilgo Beach Task Force did an incredible job. An
incredible job that is entangling one of the most bungled
serial killer investigations in modern history. And while they are
(10:58):
endless threads as to what went wrong, we've uncovered one
thread worth pulling on, one that helps him ravel the
mystery of whether this case could have been solved sooner,
which brings us back to our twenty fifteen interview with
Dave Shaller, the roommate of Amberlyn Costello, one of the
(11:18):
gill Go.
Speaker 20 (11:19):
For I told the cops about everybody, you know. There
was one guy who came there. He was a monster.
This guy was big. I had to fight him to
get him out of the house. And he was driving
a green h what how was I think called green avalanche?
A Chevy Avalanche truck. There was only like a couple
of weeks before, right before she disappeared. That that guy
was there.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So you believe that she had met him on some
kind of outcohol or in call before.
Speaker 20 (11:42):
The alcohol or include definitely, and that green Avalanche bro
stands out in my fucking mind to this day because
those cops, man, they reacted so like, you know, when
I point that thing out, they were like, you know,
you could see the fucking lump in that throat. You
know something about that guy, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
From Dave's very first interview with detectives, conducted days after
Amber was identified in December twenty ten, he gave a
description of a possible killer and his vehicle, a tip
that the Suffolk County PD has since admitted was in
their case files from the beginning, a tip which they
claim had been overlooked.
Speaker 16 (12:19):
David Shallard spoke with homicide detectives more than a decade ago.
Speaker 6 (12:23):
Investigators had a description of a Chevrolet Avalanche in their
case files since twenty ten.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
But this wasn't just one clue seemingly lost in a
sea of police reports. We now know that Dave's description
was corroborated by another witness, we presume, a neighbor who
also saw quote a dark colored pickup truck coming from
the direction Amber was last seen, prompting detectives to reinterview
Dave Shaller. Months later.
Speaker 20 (12:52):
The cops came to Brooklyn and they pulled out a
board with a whole bunch of trucks on it, and
one of the trucks was green ass Avalanche. He said,
does any of these trucks stand out to you? And
I went like this to point it out, the Green Avalanche,
and they both looked at each other with a fucking
look on their face, like like an old fuck look
like it was the fucking tip of the sentry.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Tip of the century when that Dave Shaller gives not once,
but twice, a tip corroborated by another eyewitness describing the
same vehicle on the night Amber disappears. In twenty twenty three,
the author of Lost Girls, Robert Kolker, reported that detectives
had entered the Chevy Avalanche into a vehicle database, but
(13:36):
due to the vehicle's unique design with features of both
a car and a truck, the search came up empty.
Do you think they just didn't take this clue?
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Seriously, there's a lot we don't know.
Speaker 7 (13:48):
I was told they ran a search and the search
didn't come up with anything, but new records get filed
in strange ways, and whole new classes of car get
invented in that time, cars that aren't a truck and
cars that aren't car. It's very possible that the Avalanche
was just not signedable through the search that they did.
It's possible that after running the search, they just back
(14:09):
burnered it and they got away from them.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
But how could they not take such a concrete lead seriously? Well,
it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. We didn't
take Dave's clues seriously either, so why did we miss it?
Speaker 9 (14:25):
Well?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Back in a previous episode, we mentioned how Dave and
Amber supposedly pulled what's called the angry boyfriend scam on
a John supposedly Rex, a scam that led to a
brawl at Dave's house sometime.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
Before Amber disappeared.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Now, according to police, Amber gets a text from that
same John later that night saying that was not nice.
Do I get credit for next time? But John doesn't
want to go back to the house because he's afraid
of quote Amber's boyfriend. Now, Dave says it wasn't actually
a scam, just that he and Rex had gotten into
a fight regardless. That's as far as this first story goes.
(15:04):
But then Dave tells us a second story about the
night Amber disappeared.
Speaker 20 (15:09):
So this guy kept colling and she kept talking all
sorts of jazz with him and stuff. She said, he
wants me once for the night, once and for the night.
Did he throw money at it, yeah, fifteen hundred dollars.
I remember telling her it's a lot of money. It
doesn't sound right. And she was comfortable with him. I
remember that the level of comfort she had with him
was strange. I didn't feel right about it. So it
(15:29):
was always little stipulations. You had to pick her up
around the corner. I said, well, I can't the guy
you know pick you up in front of the house.
And they were all just like red flags. She didn't care.
She left that night just the clothes on her back,
no peris, no phone, no nothing, which was odd of
itself too. And that night I'm just playing it in
my head and I'm like, I don't understand what happened
(15:49):
that night.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But here's the point. Dave wasn't one hundred percent sure
that the two Johns were connected, but he also said
it was weeks between that earlier fight and the night
Amber went missing.
Speaker 20 (16:03):
It was only like a couple weeks before, right before
she disapeared, that that guy was there.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
We thought, there's no way this elusive killer who took
all these precautions wouldever show his face to Dave and
then come back weeks later to snatch Amber. But now
it seems it wasn't weeks later, it was the next day,
which makes this fight with this angry John far more relevant.
Speaker 20 (16:26):
Well, this guy went from normal to three hundred and
sixty degrees, you know, I mean, just when fucking not
started throwing shit around my house.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Because now we know why this killer, allegedly Rex, would
do something so risky, because his ego had been bruised
because Amber had not only tried to scam him, she
had humiliated him, and now he was going to make
her pay. What's even more damning recently released court documents
suggesting that detectives did know was the next day, making
(16:57):
the fact that they had missed this connection all the
more frustrating.
Speaker 16 (17:02):
Schaller's hold investigators a decade ago that he came face
to face with Rex Ywerman quote. I gave them the
exact description of the truck I mean, come on, why
didn't they use that?
Speaker 6 (17:15):
The point is, if they had followed the avalanche tip,
then God forbid, more victims could still be alive if
they had made the arrest back then.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
In twenty twelve, Dave Shaller publicly admitted that he was
quote too high to remember that day, which may account
for the time discrepancy.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
Yet he still maintains it was weeks before.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Regardless, his avalanche clue and the detective's reactions spoke volumes,
so much so they even took the time to create
a truck lineup on a board. Yet after striking out
with this database, the tip was theoretically forgotten.
Speaker 21 (17:51):
Benefamation came in at the beginning of the investigation in
twenty ten and twenty eleven, along with what was really
thousands of tips, and unfortunately it gets lost and buried.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But Suffa County had more than just a potential description
of the Long Island serial killer and his car. As
you remember, they also had a potential location of where
he lived and worked.
Speaker 17 (18:14):
Let's bring back former District attorney in Suffolk County, Tim Ciny.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Tim, you know a lot more about this than I do.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
What's going on here?
Speaker 22 (18:20):
Certainly Massapeka was on the radars early as twenty twelve,
and the FBI was able to pinpoint the areas that
the killer was connected to, both in the Massapico Park
as well as Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
But even without the FBI's help, detectives knew about Massapequa
Park from the very first interviews they did with Melissa
Bartholemew's mother Lynn.
Speaker 8 (18:41):
When I had Melissa's phone records, there was a lot
of calls in and out from Massapequa, which I don't
have those records because the police confiscated my book of
all my investigation.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Tell me about what happened with that. Please.
Speaker 8 (18:57):
They came to Buffalo to meet with us, and we
were telling them about my book and all the investigating
we did. You know, we went to Verizon, we got
all her phone records, and so they were like, well,
can we take a look at this book, and we
showed it to him and that was the last time
it was in my hands. They just said, this is
now evidence.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yet despite having a description of this monster, his Green
Avalanche and Massapequa Park, they continued to let the tip
slip away over and over again. Recently, we spoke with
Gus Garcia Roberts, the author of Jimmy the King and
former investigative reporter with The Washington Post at the time
of Rex's arrest.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
What was the official.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Line from law enforcement about the revelation that this tip
was in the files?
Speaker 23 (19:47):
We started calling, you know, everybody who we knew had
been investigators on the case at that time, in those
early days, and just asking him, you know, are you
familiar with this Chevy Avalanche tip. The kind of consensus
that we heard from these investigators was that they had
no recollection of there being this tip involving a Green Avalanche,
(20:13):
never heard of it, don't know what that is at all.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
That was the answer.
Speaker 16 (20:16):
Tyranny, who became DA in twenty twenty two, explains why
the tip got buried.
Speaker 14 (20:22):
When they're getting that, that's lost within a sea of
other tips and information, and at the time there wasn't
really any coherent leadership at the top.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Of course, Tierney isn't wrong blaming the previous DA Tom
Spoda and his sidekick, Police Chief James Burke, as it's
been reported, instead of investigating the Gilgo case, Burke has
detectives spying on professional and personal rivals for both himself
and SPODA and then came Burke's assault of a prisoner
(20:53):
and cover up. But maybe the most damning reason critics
point to with spodin Burke's blatant obstruction of the FBI.
Speaker 15 (21:02):
Burke was heavily criticized by other law enforcement officials for
his handling of the case.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Over a decade ago, he refused.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
And blocked federal law enforcement from working on the Gilgo
Beach serial murder case.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
In twenty thirteen, we interviewed former Commissioner Richard Dormer about
his initial meetings with the FBI.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Just days after the tenth body was found.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
Day came up to Suffi County. I think it was
three or four of their analysts sat down with our
task force, and they had very good ideas on how
the investigation should be conducted. I mean, let's face it,
they're the experts in this thing. This was unusual, yeah,
I mean it's not every day that the Suffi County
PD would investigate a case like this.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Once Dormer retired in twenty eleven, the FBI's assistance was
either minimized or flatly refused, even a request by federal
agents to track lists personal phone by using his burner
phone was denied by SPODA. The bad blood between the
Burkes BODA regime and the FBI came to a head
in December twenty twelve, when two detectives sent a memo
(22:05):
requesting a third meeting with the BAU Again.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
Here's Robert Kolker.
Speaker 7 (22:11):
Someone in the Suffocunty Police Department invites the Behavioral Now
Unit to come out in person, and when they show up,
Spoda has them turn around and fly back home. He
said their work was redundant. They were turned away on
the airfield.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And all of this happening in the shadow of Burke's
assault on prisoner Chris Lobe for stealing a Duffel bag
of quote nasty porn. In fact, this memo requesting the
FBI's help was dated December seventh, twenty twelve. Just one
week later Burke assaulted Chris Lobe, suggesting the powers that
be were trying to contain the fallout from this violent
(22:50):
beating when they sent the FBI packing.
Speaker 19 (22:53):
The federal authorities should be in this case. Apparently they'd
been boxed out and told stay away by Suffolk County.
Speaker 17 (23:02):
Cases like this is when you have everyone working together
instead not saying keep the FBI away from this.
Speaker 9 (23:08):
We don't want them. What that makes no sense.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
While working with the FBI might have led to a
suspect sooner. In truth, profiles don't actually solve cases. It's
usually gumshoe detective work. Just look at David Burkwoit's who
was caught by way of a parking ticket or Bundy
an expired registration. Profiles usually just tell detectives where to look.
(23:33):
Yet Suffolk County already knew where to look in Massapequa Park.
The same could be said for this highly touted geographical box,
which was ultimately unnecessary because detectives already had everything they
needed to solve this case right from the start, and
yet they didn't. Here's both Robert Kolker and Gus Garcia.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
Roberts the one source I talked to who remembers the
avalanche tip from.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Way back when. What he did not say was we
really racked our brains.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
We searched high and lowe, We went looking for that
avalanche on every square foot of Suffolk County, and then
we just threw up our hands and walked away because
we had other things to do. What he said was
they ran a search and they couldn't find it clearly
that it did more than that, because the investigating cops
were coming back to Dave for confirmation of this lead,
So that must have been taken seriously at some point.
Speaker 23 (24:27):
It's maddening, honestly, the case is so botched that you
can't blame people who kind of arrive at the assumption
that has botched on purpose.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
So why didn't Suffolk County police catch list sooner? It's
a question that's haunted us from the very first moment
the alleged recked Huerman was arrested. But now having scrutinized
Dave Shaller's interview, we can finally search for the devil
in the d tales as in, specifically, why was this
clue never followed up on? And why did Suffolk County
superiors not know about it? Or did they? And if so,
(25:11):
why was that clue filed away? Was it the result
of incompetence or something more? In reality, these are questions
only Gilgo detectives can I answer.
Speaker 5 (25:22):
Or at least a detective. We spent more than two decades.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Commanding one of the most demanding cold case squads Joe jackalone.
Speaker 13 (25:30):
Coming from this line of work, this is a mistake
that you cannot afford to make. I mean, this is
something where you had the clues readily available. In my experience,
I think this would have been an automatic reach out
to the New York State Police, tell them we need
this done. How many green avalanches in Massapequa and I
want all the driver's license photos on my desk by
the time I get back. The Chief of Detectives himself
(25:52):
probably would have called the state Police superintendent said I
need this done now, please. I don't know people saying
I'll come on, Joe, No, listen. A couple of the
detectives that I worked for, this case would have been
wrapped up in twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Don't you think this clue would have been at least
forwarded on to the sergeant and lieutenant absolutely?
Speaker 13 (26:09):
Remember even in Suffocunty, smaller departments to chain the command
always exists, but.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
It's a lot shorter.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
What's the percentage that it would have went up to
Chief of Detectives at that time?
Speaker 5 (26:19):
It should have been one hundred percent.
Speaker 13 (26:20):
It's just Suffolk County where something like this doesn't happen
very often.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
And yet, according to one unnamed source who started overseeing
the case in twenty eleven, it was quote beyond weird
that he wasn't made aware of Shaller's statement. In another
article from Gus Garcia Robertson, the chief of detectives, Dominic
Varon states, quote, I'll tell you right now, no suspect
vehicle was on our radar when I was still there,
(26:48):
which is why we pushed Gus for his thoughts.
Speaker 23 (26:51):
On Varonns statement, I don't think he is lying, because
I think if he was lying about it, he would
probably be smart enough to know that something like this
would emerge that would call into question why he was
saying that.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
But what if Veron truly didn't know about this ogre
and the avalanche. What if these detectives who questioned Shaller
over and over again withheld this clue from their superiors
because they were instructed to by the man who would
later become their boss, James Burke, who along with DA Spoda,
was plotting their takeover of the Suffolk County Police Department,
(27:29):
a plot that begins with that very strange fight you
might remember, a fight over one serial killer verse two.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
Suffix Police Commissioner Richard Dormer and DA Tom Spoda publicly
clashed over the Gilgo Beach body's case before a legislative committee.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
First, the Commissioner reiterated his theory, we still believe it's
one killer. Then the DA quickly shot that down.
Speaker 24 (27:52):
There's no evidence that all of the remains found are
the work of a single killer.
Speaker 11 (27:58):
And Spoda denounced the commission for going public with his theory.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
It really truly is disturbing.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
It just makes a very difficult investigation even more difficult.
Speaker 21 (28:08):
Ten bodies, no suspects, moneral They are ten ten wins.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
In hotpog.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
We now know this public argument was just one piece
of Burke and Spoda's Macabellian plan to have Burke installed
as the new police chief so that he and Spoda
could take over the police Department and with it, all
of Suffolk County. But first, according to Robert Kolker, they
had a force out Commissioner Dormer and the man who
(28:34):
appointed him, the county executive, Steve Levy.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
In the spring of twenty eleven, when Tom Spoda is
publicly lambasting the police commissioner, he also is inches away
from engineering a slow motion takeover of the police department,
and that begins with neutralizing his big rival who has
the power to appoint the police commissioner.
Speaker 21 (28:57):
Newly unsealed federal court documents revealing a shocking plot to
take down self at county executive Steve Levy. According to
the papers, Thomas Spoda was working with James Burke to
get Levy out of office because they saw him as uncontrollable.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Uncontrollable because, as gus Garcia Roberts reveals, they knew there
was no way Steve Levy whatever point James Burke to
police chief considering his checkered past.
Speaker 23 (29:24):
James Burke was Chief of Investigators for the DA's office
under Tom Spoda, and Steve Levy was the enormously popular
county executive. Burke really would not have survived the vetting
needed to be a commissioner. So James Burke kind of
leads this extremely shadowy investigation of Steve Levy, which probably
(29:47):
involved blackmail, and the guy who rises up in that
vacuum and becomes county executive is Steve Bolone. The very
first thing that Bologne does, against advice from others, is
he appoints James Burke to be police chief.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
So, going back to the start of this takeover with
SPODA trying to publicly humiliate Dormer. Could Burke be telling
Gilgo detectives hold tight, he's going to be police chief
in nine months, but don't pass up any leads to
Chief of Detectives Dominic Vverome, because he's Dormer's guy, and
God forbid they solve the case under his watch.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 23 (30:26):
I mean, honestly, I find that compelling. I think that
makes a ton of sense. He would not want this
case to be solved under his enemies jurisdiction. It would
completely undermine the selling point that Dormer and Levy were
poor solving crimes.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
We're not suggesting that Burke instructed detectives to bury the
Green Avalanche tip, but just not to share any leads
in the off chance it would lead to a suspect
and a win for Dormer. It's a theory that Rob Trum,
a former detective now Suffolk legislator, has corroborated in interviews
just after Human's arrest.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
I think what happened was, and I know this firsthand,
was I've talked to retired inspectors in chiefs. They were
unaware that the car was there. They were unaware that
there was a six foot bore male as a suspect.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
They were not being told.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
This, adding further corroboration to Trotta's comments. When Burke took
over his chief, he immediately fired Veron. But why at
that point didn't detectives finally action the Green Avalanche tip?
More so, why did detectives who kept reinterviewing Dave Shaller
for more than a year and a half suddenly stop?
Speaker 20 (31:42):
The cops stopped coming for some reason.
Speaker 6 (31:44):
When's the last time other cops were in contact with you?
Speaker 5 (31:47):
It's been a long time.
Speaker 20 (31:48):
It's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Three year, four years, Yeah.
Speaker 20 (31:51):
Three years or so. I actually left the message for
them like two years ago.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Never got back to me back in twenty fifteen. Three
years or so meant twenty twelve, which coincides with Burke
replacing Commissioner Dormer on January first, twenty twelve, and just
like that, his takeover is complete and the tip of
the century is buried even deeper.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
Here's Robert Kolker.
Speaker 7 (32:19):
I think Burke makes a bad situation worse. You have
a department that already is kind of paralyzed because Spoda
is taking control of it, and then Spoda puts the
worst possible person in charge of that department, someone who
isn't going to lift a finger to try and find
this killer. And then Burke beats up a witness in
front of a handful of other people, and suddenly they
(32:41):
have to spend the next year trying to shut everybody up,
and it's all downhill from there. It's a frying pan
into the fire situation, and it takes years to recover from.
He was gone by twenty sixteen, and then this task
perce didn't come in until twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Tragically, we may never know the answer as to what
really happened to the Tip of the century and why
it was lost for so long. As for finally catching list,
you might say the biggest step the Gilgo Beach Task
Force ever took to overcome the mistakes of the past
was also the simplest. To start digitizing their files.
Speaker 14 (33:16):
First thing we did was digitalize it. I mean, you
have thirteen years of investigation. If you don't digitalize it,
if you don't make it searchable, then you have to
manually go through literally reams of paperwork.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
So then you go through it.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Less than one month after the task Force started digging
into their files, they came across the tip that Dave
Shaller had given them eleven years ago.
Speaker 25 (33:41):
That investigator started this assignment in February of twenty twenty two.
In March of twenty twenty two, this same New York
State Police investigator reported that a potential suspect had been identified.
This suspect was res Pureman.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
The tip that had been there all along, presumably right
in his first few boxes. They pulled off the shelf
right on top of the proverbial pile. But even after
more than a decade of this malfeastans that allowed rex
Hureman to roam free, and even with Tom Spoda and
James Burke serving prison sentences, as gus Garcia Roberts tells us,
(34:22):
the mistakes of the past were tragically unlikely to be
learned from.
Speaker 23 (34:27):
There was this kind of willful ignorance after Burke was
brought down, as Voto was brought down, like Okay, now
we're going to be a regular law enforcement jurisdiction again.
But I think it would be naive to think that
that's not something that's continuing. The cops are still in
Suffolk County among the highest paid in the nation. They're
extremely powerful. The voting block that the police have is
(34:51):
really unique out in Long Island because holder of NYPD
lives out in Long Island. You combine that with the
Long Island departments and you have a really powerful, massive
moneyed voting block that hasn't changed. And that's what led
to the rise of James Burke. Right, was this political
power that the police had. So considering that that hasn't changed,
(35:13):
I don't see the police impunity changing.
Speaker 12 (35:17):
This case was investigated through five Suffolk Police Commissioners, three
Suffolk das, and two Suffolk County executives, and the breakthrough
came after looking at existing evidence. So I've been asked,
could this or should this case have been solved earlier?
Speaker 14 (35:35):
Well, you know, as I've been saying, I took office
in January Accounty.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
In September twenty twenty five, the Suffolk County DA ruled
a major victory in the upcoming trial against Rex Huerman
when the judge ruled to allow d evidence obtained through
cutting edge technology known as whole genome sequencing. Since New
York State doesn't have the death penalty, Hureerman could face
life without the possibility of parole, but if he's convicted,
(36:14):
his DNA will be entered into COTIS, the FBI's national
DNA database, and if that profile matches unsolved murders in
death penalty states like South Carolina or Nevada, where heroman
owns property, he could face capital charges.
Speaker 4 (36:30):
D A.
Speaker 5 (36:31):
Tierney has said there's.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
No plea deal on the table, but in cases like this,
there's always that possibility.
Speaker 16 (36:37):
This case inches toward trial.
Speaker 21 (36:40):
Rex hwer Men is accused and the murders of seven women.
Speaker 17 (36:44):
This is a case that has taken so many years
to get to where we are, and there are still
so many questions.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Rex Hureman's trial is expected to begin sometime in twenty
twenty six, and we'll be there to cover it. As
of this recording, he's been charged with murders, but the
four other victims remain open cases. Tatiana Marie Diyke's formerly
known as Baby Dough, and the victim once called Asian
Doe fall under Suffolk County Karen Ergatta and Tanya Denise
(37:14):
Jackson ak Peaches or Nassau County cases. It's still unclear
whether NASA has enough evidence to move forward with indictments.
It's also believed that authorities have identified Asian Doe, but
still haven't released his name.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
And then there's Valerie Mack.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Six of the seven murders who Reman is charged with
were believed to have taken place in his home, except
for hers, which raises the possibility of another kill site
and potentially more victims, a theory suggested by former police
Commissioner Richard Dormer all the way back in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 26 (37:54):
I've always expressed a feeling that there may be more
bodies out there, and that he may be using another
dumping ground. I believe he hasn't stopped. Okay, he needs this,
his psyche needs this. Does he have a new dumping ground?
I would say yes.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Another outstanding question is whether we're going to learn more
about James Burke's alleged obstruction in the Gilgo case. It's
assume Human's defense is going to introduce Burke, or at
least his past deeds a trial in an effort to
so reasonable doubt as to whether Human is solely responsible
for the crimes. As for Burke, he's been making headlines
(38:33):
of his own in recent years.
Speaker 15 (38:36):
James Burke was once the highest ranking uniformed officer in
the Suffolk County Police Department. Today, the former police chief
pled not guilty to charges of public lewdness and indecent
exposure after getting caught in an undercover stink in August.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Disgrace Foreign Police chief James Burke, released from jail in
twenty nineteen after serving just forty months for assault and
instruction of justice, was arrested again.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
In twenty twenty three after.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Allegedly soliciting sex and masturbating in front of a plane
closed park ranger at ten am in the morning at
a Long Island park.
Speaker 10 (39:13):
The former police chief was arrested just a few miles
from Gilgo Beach. Prosecutors say he tried to solicit a
sex act from a male undercover officer. He is said
to have pleaded with officers to spare him the humiliation
of an arrest, even asking do you know who I am?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
As for convicted and disbarred district attorney Tom Spoda. After
his release from prison, he worked as an administrative clerk
under the supervision of hot shot criminal defense attorney Anthony Lepinta,
who had previously defended him in court. It's been reported
that Spoda's duties are part of his work Release.
Speaker 24 (39:50):
Program Suffix, former district attorney, has been released from a
federal prison. This comes less than three years and to
Thomas Spoda's five year sentence. As we've reported, the eighty
ti year old was convicted in twenty nineteen of trying
to cover up then Suffolk Police chief James Burke's beating
of a handcuffed suspect.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Systemic corruption takes a notoriously long time to undo, not years,
but decades, and by all indications, the convictions of James
Burke and Tom Spoda haven't had the kind of impact
many of us had hoped for. Case in point, James Burke,
a convicted felon, still receives a taxpayer funded pension of
(40:32):
one hundred and forty five thousand dollars a year. Thomas
Spoda one hundred and twenty three thousand dollars a year,
and that's not even counting the nearly four hundred and
thirty five thousand dollars Burke walked away with in twenty
sixteen for unused sick in vacation time. Here's Jimmy the
(40:53):
King author Gus Garcia Roberts with his take.
Speaker 23 (40:57):
I think that people are always surprised to learn that
he's still gets a pension, if I remember correctly, one
hundred and fifty grand a year.
Speaker 5 (41:04):
How can that be?
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I mean, you're talking about a guy who single handedly
helped bring down Suffolk County Police Department.
Speaker 23 (41:11):
Not only that, but all the other cops involved in
his conspiracy still get pensions too, including people who are
convicted of felonies. In that case, I think once that
gets moral light and people understand that, then maybe outrage
will grow.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Nor does it seem like the Suffolk County Police Department
has truly reckoned with this long complicated relationship with sex workers.
If anything, the problems still persists. Just four days before
writing this episode, a former Suffolk County detective played guilty,
admitting he worked as a pimp and a prostitution ring
that ran on Long Island from twenty nineteen to twenty
(41:49):
twenty four.
Speaker 8 (41:50):
Former Sufi police officer George Tremigliosi was among three people
who pleaded guilty. Today, they are accused of running prostitution brothels.
Speaker 17 (41:59):
It's being called a massive betrayal of public trust. A
suspended Suffolk police officer facing new charges of rape and
sexual abuse. This comes after he and three others were
charged with running an alleged prostitution ring.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Tremigliosi, who will be sentenced to two years incarceration for
promoting prostitution, was an eighteen year veteran of the Suffolk
County and Police Department and had won Cop of the
Month six times. Seems as much as things change, they
stayed the same. Last summer, I went to my first
(42:38):
pretrial hearings in the Gigo Beach case, and I remember
the murmur that went through the crowd as Rex was
let into the courtroom. I admit I wanted that thrill
of seeing a real life monster in the flesh. And yes,
Rex was huge, his massive hand shackled behind his hulking back.
(42:58):
But what I saw instead was the true paradox of
Rex Hureman, because for someone so big, so massive, all
I saw was someone so weak and so small, too
weak to fight the rage that he gave into two,
weak to overcome the revenge he fantasized about, too weak
(43:21):
to seek help, and so instead he chose to inflict pain,
that same pain he once felt now onto so many others,
onto the victims, onto their families, onto their parents, sisters
and brothers, and worst of all their children, thus perpetuating
(43:41):
the cycle. Unable to fight the monsters, you might say
Rex chose to become one, but then we'd be giving
him too much credit, wouldn't we. Here's doctor Joni Johnston.
Speaker 27 (43:56):
We think all Rex human a monster, meaning he's otherworldly.
Then he's not like us. We can never be like
Rex hero because we're rural people. And the opposite of
that is true. I used to work in a max
security president and I'm going to do many murders and
I've never gone away being like, Wow, this guy seems
so powerful. He's like, no, You're given this person unnatural power,
(44:20):
even if it's evil power. And you're saying that this
person is so unique that we can never understand this person.
It's like, yeah, we can. You know, this person is
somebody who was unable to do in life what most
of us can do, which is learned to cope without
hurting other people. This is not a hard person to understand.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Doctor Johnston was right, because there's something about that day
Rex was arrested.
Speaker 5 (44:45):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
The minute I saw that photo of Rex, I remembered
that interview we did with Dave Shaller and this description
of the man he thought killed Amber, the man he
called the Beast, or Frankenstein, most importantly, a monster. That's
when I knew we'd fallen into that age old trap,
(45:07):
believing that List is something more an elusive boogeyman, an
evil genius, something he obviously was not. In fact, if
we realize back then just how easy he was to understand,
how he was just like us, fallible, impulsive human, then
(45:30):
who knows, maybe we could have caught him all those
years ago.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Here's Profiler Mark Saffreck.
Speaker 18 (45:39):
I think we give too much credit to these offenders.
We want to try to make Choirman out to be
like this super villain.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
Right.
Speaker 18 (45:48):
He seems to be careful, like I got to destroy data,
I've got to wipe my hard drive, I've got to
burn all this evidence. But hey, let me just keep
all the newspaper articles in my safe. We see this
a lot when offenders just think they're untouchable. He's got
a air literally on almost all of his victims that
belongs to someone in his family, him, his wife, his daughter.
(46:11):
He's deceived law enforcement for seventeen years. But I think
there were a lot of other things that went along
with that. I think he could have been apprehended much
earlier on But I don't think that he survived seventeen
years because he's a super super smart guy.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
In the end, what allowed Rex Hureman, the alleged Long
Island serial killer, to get away with so much for
so long had nothing to do with how much he
researched or studied, or how carefully he planned. Wasn't that
he used burner cell phones or chose the perfect dumping ground,
or that he even changed his mo but allowed Rex
(46:51):
to get away with it wasn't anything he did. It's
what we did, and almost everything the police did. Whether
it's bitter irony or just dumb luck. The only thing
Rex Hureman, the alleged Long Island serial Killer, ever did
right was to pick the perfect place to commit his crimes.
(47:16):
Suffolk County, Long Island. Ready to keep listening, Remember you
(47:49):
can binge the rest of the season right now with
an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple
Podcasts Plus. You get exclusive bonuses and ad free listening.
So head to Apple Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus
and subscribe today. Hunting the Long Island serial Killer is
(48:16):
a production of Tenderfoot TV. And iHeart Podcasts, hosted, written
and executive produced by me Josh Zemon. Produced and written
by Caitlin Colford, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay, our executive
producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Trevor Young,
our executive producers on behalf of iHeart Podcasts. Original music
(48:40):
by Alex Lasarenko, David Little and makeup and Vanity Set
Our supervising producer is John Street. Editing and writing by
Daniel Lonsberry. Additional voiceover provided by Rachel Mills. Additional production
provided by Ghost Robot, Sound design, mix and master by
(49:01):
Daydon Cole. Cover design by Byron McCoy. Interns Arnetta Fontinat,
Shelby Hanson, Alec Walker and Fox Williams. Ana Television Networks LLC.
Audio from the Killing Season used under license copyright twenty
twenty five a Anda Television Networks LLC.
Speaker 5 (49:23):
All rights reserved.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Special thanks to the team at United Talent Agency, the
Nord Group, Brad Abramson, Todd Leebowitz, Rich Perrillo and Jigsaw Productions,
Rachel Mills, Zachary Mortensen, Jen Beegle, David Baker, Joe Jack
Alone and Evan Krause, as well as the teams at
iHeart Podcasts and Tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media
(49:48):
at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts like Monster Hunting
the Long Island serial Killer, search Tenderfoot TV in your
podcast app or visit tenderfoot dot com tv.
Speaker 5 (50:01):
And if you want to keep
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Following my hunt for the Long Island serial Killer or
a deeper dive into my other true crime content, join
me on YouTube at Sinister with Josh Zemon
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.