February 6, 2025 • 43 mins
Did you know that Oprah Winfrey was fired from her first TV job as an anchor in Baltimore? Big mistake. Huge. This week, we talk about failure, sucking and imposter syndrome. More Better listener Zander asks: “How do I get more better at being okay with being bad at things?” The answer? Well, it’s complicated. Stephanie and Melissa share about their experiences with moving through failure, the bumpy road to success, the importance of bombing and how an ikebana flower arranging class taught Steph to let go.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We were standing at the bar and there was a
guy like really pushing me, like really like shoving in
my space, and I was like trying to like kind
of elbow him back, but not really. And then I
turned to the new people that I had just met,
and I was like, you were just standing next to
somebody at a bar and they're crowding you on your
space and you just look at your wine glass and
think what would happen if I just smashed this on
(00:21):
the bar and then stabbed the person behind me? Really
like what would happen?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And they looked at me like I, Oh, no, she's psycho.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Oh no, psycho? Yeah, and they I'm not even kidding.
They were like ah. And then they turned in toward
each other to converse, and I was like, oh it failed.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Better More Better, Hello, Hi, Welcome to More Better, a
podcast where we stop pretending to have it all together
(01:06):
and embrace the journey of becoming a little more better
every day, or.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
At least trying to. That small supermaro.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And that is the one and only Stephanie Beatrice.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh my god, stop you go.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
No, I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I am okay.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Your whole family has the flu. My entire family came
down with the flu this past weekend. I am shockingly
still healthy and imbelievable think out of the window of
possibly contamination. Uh it was bad. It was really really bad.
There was yeah fevers and chills and throwing.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Up and uh yeah it was. It was bad, man.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And I'm I'm so grateful that I happened to be
home for this, because David was literally in bed for
two days, and I don't know what he would have done.
If I was in Atlanta, he would have been like
parenting from the floor, like he was out. And I
just kept thinking, oh my god, if I wasn't here,
if I was in Atlanta, like so you know, silver lining,
(02:20):
I was here.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I was able to take care of everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I lysold like a fucking maniac and like washed hands
and like because I was like I cannot go down.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh my god, I'm fucking exhausted, though. Bro, what a
what a little break, what a vacation?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I know, welcome home, mom?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
What a treat?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
What a treat? How are you?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
We saw coyote on our.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Street, I know, yeah, and our dog was like out
in the yard like peeing, because get in a house.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I like, get your ass in the house, sterrifying, terrifying. Yeah,
that's what's been going on here.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
More Better.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Today's episode topic comes from a listener, which is really nice.
We love these.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Emails and like dms and all that stuff. So if
you need help with something in your life or you
have a suggestion for a future episode, email us at
More Better pod at gmail dot com. You can also
include a voice note to be featured on the pod.
So we have an email today from Xander. Great name Xander,
by the way, I love your name. Okay, Hi, Stephanie
(03:32):
and Melissa. I'm Xander from Ohio, and I just want
to say how much I've been loving the pod so far.
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It really has become a highlight of my week, and
it's nice to listen to something that feels like friends
talking to each other.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I just graduated college and I'm pursuing certifications in my field.
But I'm finding that I'm not naturally good at everything. Shocker,
a surprise, surprise, and then none of us are.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I feel a little bit like an imposter.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Sometimes My question is how do I get How should
I get more better at being okay with being bad
at things when I first start out, And how have
you all dealt with feeling imposter syndrome? The feeling of
imposter syndrome? Oh, that's really nice, best Alexander ooh cool
(04:18):
spelled A L E K Z A N D R.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, okay, all right, well you're already more better than
us at names imposter syndrome. Uh okay, So what does
that mean to you, Melissa?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, I loved I think this is such a great
topic and question. Obviously, I think we've all had feelings
of imposter syndrome, but and also like just the thing
of like being bad, like being okay with being bad
at something. Yeah, that's really interesting to me. I've definitely
had that, like.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
All the first season of Brooklyn nine nine.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, talk to me about seasons one through five.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, I mean definitely.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
For me, it was like the most I think intense
first season, just feeling like I didn't know what I
was doing. I didn't know if I was good at it,
at it being comedy and landing I would get I've
talked about it before, how I would like have panic
when I got the joke lines. I wanted to have
all the setups, because I felt like that was I
(05:28):
was more comfortable there, like lobbing something to someone else,
like someone else do the funny part, and I'll just
like toss you the ball. And I don't know if
you remember our producing director first couple of seasons, Craig's
Zig and I used to first season, after every take,
(05:48):
I would look for Craig through the crowd and then
he would just give me a little fun thumbs up. Oh,
that's so nice.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
A generous person.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Such a generous person were in Trash the first season
I was, and I was just so unsure of everything
I was doing. And then he literally became like a
crutch like for me. If I didn't he see him
and I didn't get my little thumbs up, I would
like spiral wow and yeah, and I just you know,
(06:16):
And then the funny thing is later I remember, actually
it was with a moment I had with Chelsea Peretti.
There was a moment where I was with her and
Jordan and I want to say it was even like
at the Golden Globes or something, and which is such
a weird thing to say, Sorry, that was just the setting.
(06:38):
But and they were complimenting me on the work I
was doing on the show, and I was like so perplexed,
like I couldn't even receive the compliments, and I was like, guys,
i don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm just
trying to do different things on every take because I
feel like everything I do is bad and I don't
know what I'm doing and it's you know, I just
(06:58):
feel so lost and I'm so fucking nervous all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And they just looked at me and they were like.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Like almost like, Babe, that's how you do comedy, Like
you just try a bunch of different shit, and they
kind of just like gave me this assurance of like
the way I was doing it was actually the way
I should be doing it. And something about that interaction
that moment kind of gave me some extra confidence.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, okay, I'll.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Just like, oh, my two of some of the funniest people,
Yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I mean yeah, Chelsea Pretty and Jordan Pee will tell
you you're doing okay.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
You're like you're doing good. Maybe I'm doing okay.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, what's been your experience with some of this? I
think imposter syndrome is pretty normal for everybody because it's
like you know, not to get to wu wu. But
all of it is based in like our ideas of
like ourselves and how we how we appear to others,
(07:53):
and our need for And I'm including myself in this.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I'm not being like, oh need you know, our need
for approval from others and how that makes up you know,
a large part of who we are as people and
as artists.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But you know, every but I think everybody feels this way.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Everybody feels there's something happens and I don't know when, right,
because I think little kids have it too. Yeah, but
there's something they're human about wanting to be a part
of the group and look like you belong to the group.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
That's why kids copy adults around them. It's why kids
copy older kids. It's why teenage girls are so horrible
to each other sometimes because they're all desiring and wanting
to belong. Yeah, some of them, some of them. Some
(08:47):
of us have stronger thinking about myself as a teenage girls,
some of us have stronger role models in that like
meaning that not that not that all role models aren't strong,
but I think that they're something that happens, Like where
if the adults around you are like, you are inherently good.
You don't need to be or do anything just by
(09:10):
being yourself. You're fantastic and great and you're very, very loved.
And if you have that, I think a lot from
the time that you're little you probably died, didn't, but
you probably grow up feeling kind of like I'm pretty deese.
Like as a person, you know, like I'm pretty decee.
And and I think, you know, not to put too
(09:34):
fine a point on it, but I think a lot
of men grow up.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Kind of being like I'm pretty decee.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
That's why you see a lot of men enter spaces
where maybe they aren't the best, or aren't experienced, or
aren't whatever, and they're just like, well, I belong here.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I belong in the space, right And.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Because it been told that they belong in spaces from
the time that they were young, they don't ever remember
not belonging in spaces. So if you're someone that hasn't
grown up that way, then when you get into spaces,
you automatically start feeling like you don't belong You're.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Not supposed to be here. You are You've somehow managed
to convince the people in power that you belong here
by some strange part of your brain that somehow told
you that it was acceptable for you to even, you know,
in our case audition, how dare you have the audacity
to audition for this?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Like meanwhile, now you've gotten it and you are fucked
because you do not measure up right. But I think
the thing that I've started to hold on to as
an adult, even when it gives me butterflies, is like,
but there is some small part of me that was like,
I belong here. There is some flame inside me that
I can continue to feed that is like bitch.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
You funny, you know, like or like you know.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I remember I remember auditioning for Rosa Diaz and I
was like, what do I wear to this?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Like what do I What do I wear? And I thought, oh,
I know? And I put together these big black boots
that I had that were like platform, really sexy boots
that I had gotten in like a gift exchange or something,
or a clothing exchange, black jeans, really tight black jeans
that I had left over from a thing that I
(11:27):
had done, and a leather jacket that someone had given me.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And I was like, who am I in this outfit?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Because like, not the way that I thought of myself.
I didn't think of myself as like was sort of
sexy and tough. That was not me at all, But
it was her on the page, and I was like,
I could do that, and I lived there's some flame
in the back of my mind that I was like,
I could do it.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Or speaking of imposter syndrome and going back to what
you were saying about not having role models or not
having the example that made me.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
That reminded me of that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Great quote that America Frarra has about imposter syndrome where
she essentially said like she had this realization at some
point that she feels strange in new spaces because she's
often the first person like her there totally, and like
that's all it is, right, Like, if you've never seen
someone who looks like you or has your same background
(12:34):
or whatever, it is, right, because sometimes it's superficial or
racial identity, and sometimes it's just our upbringing or our
family dynamic, whatever it is. And if we've never seen
someone like us doing the thing that we're trying to do,
you feel like the first You feel like there's nothing
(12:56):
to compare yourself to. Right, and that I think is
is often where those feelings of imposter syndrome come from.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
And but I love the way she kind.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Of flipped it of just like, oh, it's just that
maybe this space hasn't been open to someone like me,
and maybe this is you know, maybe I am the
first in some sense, but that doesn't mean that I'm
not qualified.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
That doesn't mean I'm not capable, that doesn't mean you know, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
It just kind of like breaks down some of those
walls and that idea of being an impostor. Right.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, it's just like it's just new. It's just different.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's you know, and you don't have someone to kind
of just hold in your mind of just you know,
well they did it, so I can do it. You know.
It's like oftentimes when we're trying something new or intimidating,
you know, there are times where we have that person like, well,
they did it, so I know I can do it.
But when we don't have that, it's just that much
(13:53):
more overwhelming, that much more intimidating. And it's just all
fucking fear, right, It's all like resistance in our brains, like,
and it's such a human thing.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Everyone no matter where you're from or what you look like,
has had that feeling before. It's like such a human
feeling to me. Yeah, it's like I think the goal
isn't you know, eradicating it, because that's not possible, right, No,
(14:25):
but I do. I guess the goal is like.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Doing it anyway or doing it, you know, in terms
of in terms of what Xander's asking about. It's like,
I'm trying this new stuff. I'm trying new things and
I'm shocker, I'm not good at everything that I try
right right, And like it's a sucky feeling because it's
embarrassing to not be kind of stuff. You know, it's
(14:52):
really really hard, embarrassing, and it sucks to fail, Like
it sucks to try and then fail because like most
of the time somebody's watching, you know, in the case
of a joke, it doesn't land and nobody laughs.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
You know, right Faday.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I went out the other night Saturday, and we went
to see Kumasi Washington play.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It's this incredible jazz.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Musician and his band and it was really great and
it was in this cool new space. It was very
like cool so la right, and I was like, Okay,
I'm just gonna be myself in this space, like I
don't I don't need to compete. It's not about that.
I'm just here with my husband and we're having a
great time. We saw some friends and then I met
some new people and we were standing at the bar
(15:41):
and there's a guy like really pushing me, like really
like shoving in my space, and I was like trying
to like kind of elbow him back, but not really.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
And then I turned to the new.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
People that I had just met, and I was like,
you were just standing next to somebody at a bar
and they're crowding you in your space and you just
look at your wine glass and think what would happen
if I just smashed this on the bar and then.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Stabbed the person behind me, really like what would happen?
And they looked at me like I, Oh no, she's psycho.
Oh no, psycho? Yeah, and they I'm not even kidding,
they were like and then they turned in toward each
other to converse, and I was like, oh, it failed
(16:23):
that way.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
That it didn't land for whatever, It just needed context.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
It just you know, if you would said that in
front of me, I would have died laughing. I mean
also you know, maybe that they're not funny, maybe they're
not maybe maybe they're not like yeah, I don't know,
I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But in that moment, I was like, oh, well, you know,
whereas like a few years ago, ten years ago, I
might have been like, oh my god, that's so mortifying
these people, Brad, it's so stupid.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I think some of the imposter syndrome stuff is time
trying plus time meaning try, you try, you try, you try,
and the more that you try, the more you go Like,
some of the stuff is just not gonna land, and
and it's less and less uh embarrassing and painful the
(17:15):
more that you try. I would assume I'm not I
don't play sports.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I'm not I'm not athletic.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
But I would assume that it is similar in terms
of like training for something, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And oh, well, I guess I am a little more
athletic than I thought. You know, you're selling yourself yourself short.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
You are athletic when it turns, when it comes.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Maybe you're not sporty, but you're not. Yeah, those are
two different things. Those are two different things. I'm not sporty,
but I'm athletic.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Practicing meaning like, uh, doing like fight scenes or like
practicing stuff like that. The beginning of doing that kind
of stuff was really scary to me because.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Like and sometimes I couldn't get it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Do you remember that time we were shooting that thing
in the arcade and I had to like grab a
gun a certain way and I just like could not
get it.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Do you remember this?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
We were in that weird arcade slash go kart place
like way out yeah, yeah, and like there was some
gun move that I had to do, and they taught
it to me like right on set, and I was like,
I'm never fucking gonna get this, and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I couldn't get it. And like I think we did.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
They cut it together great and it looked right right,
But at.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
The time I was like, oh, dying inside because all
of you guys were there and I was like, I
can't get this and I look stupid. Ultimately, it was fine,
They're not going to make me look stupid on the show, right,
And ultimately I think the thing that happens is we
are so judgmental of ourselves, yeah, mental of ourselves, and
(18:53):
some of the judgment is okay, meaning like some of
the I could have done that better, How could.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
I work that joke better? Or what would you know?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
What?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
What could I do better next time? Like what was
the feedback that I got from my professors, or what
was the feedback that I got from you know, whoever
I'm dealing with on a person personal basis in my
new job or whatever. Let me apply some of that
feedback and see how I can get better at this thing. Yes,
but that's different than I'm so stupid. I'm so bad
at this, I'll never be good at this. I should
(19:22):
just stop trying. Yeah, there's there. It's really hard to
grow from that mindset. Yeah, and I would venture to
guess that Xander is probably pretty talented. Yeah. And I
think the thing that happens when you're naturally good at
something like you know, and I think we feel this
in our job, right, We've always been naturally good at acting,
(19:47):
and then when something comes up like a fight choreography
or a gun move or I never fucking could do
handcuffs on Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
I was so bad at handcuffs. I could never fucking
do them.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
It really like throws you because you're like, wait, there's
something I'm not that I'm not getting right away. There's
something that's not clicking right away. But the truth is,
most of the time, for most people, that's how it goes.
Like my kids are starting, you know, are getting into
like sports, and they're getting to those ages and uh,
(20:21):
like little Axel has like started jiu jitsu and now
he's really into it. But in the beginning he was
really nervous, he was really shy, and he kept saying,
I'm not good at it.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I'm not good at it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And I was like, well, no one's ever good at
anything when they first started. You've never done it before,
You've never done it. This is your first time. So like,
there is something about when you are bad at something,
you gotta gotta get your mind right. You got to
like stay in that I'm learning, I'm trying something that's hard,
which is good for me, and being bad at this
(20:53):
is actually going to make the things I'm already good
at better and that there will be growth. If you
can keep your mind right, there can be growth. You
can get better at the thing that you're attempting to do.
And it might be a slow might, you might struggle
through it. It might not be as great as your
(21:15):
other strengths. But I really believe that, like, if you
stick with it, if you accept those mistakes, like you
were saying, you just like kind of roll with it,
keep checking in, keep challenging yourself to improve, not make
the same mistakes over and over. Yeah, and just see
it as like a growth thing. At the end, you
(21:36):
probably will be pretty decent that the thing you started
out being bad at, and then the other things that
you are already good at will improve also, like especially
if they're all related. Again, we don't know what the
field is, but you know, just me fumbling with frickin'
handcuffs for eight seasons of Brooklyn never never got them never,
(21:56):
God no, I would hold them behind them. I would
always just make this motion and then just hold them back.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I got real good at faking it, Yeah, real good
at figuring out where the camera is, how I can
fake it, how it can make it look like I
clicked that shit so fast. Yeah. I never did, ever did.
But I walked away with a new skill of being
able to fake that shit so good. Yeah, man. And
that's like that's the I mean, that's the other thing
(22:24):
is like the narrow idea of what is supposed to happen,
the narrow, narrow ideas of how this is supposed to go,
and how you were a success at this. Right, if
you measured your success on whether or not at the
end of eight seasons you could actually do those handcuffs,
you'd still be fucking pissed off at yourself. But if
you measure your success about like, well, does it look
(22:45):
like I know what I'm doing as a cop on camera?
And was anybody distracted during the scene? And is the
storyline still going? The answer is yes to all of
those things. So yeah, you were success.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's sometimes about how you're looking at the thing, like
you were saying, and my picture incrementally getting better at
this thing? Am I Maybe you're not like the best
in your fucking class, but maybe you had fun. I
mean I took a flower arranging class and ikebana class
once and like, oh.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
I remember when you did that.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was not good at it, but it was fun.
Like the teacher would come around and be like no,
and she would she would take her We had these
shears that we had to get that were like super
super sharp cutting shears, and literally she would come around
and like chop the heads off my flowers. Oh my god,
take it things out, because she just was not having
(23:32):
my arrangement.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
She was like, you are a wasting space here.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Basically, she was like, you're really bad at this, thank
you for trying. And I was probably pretty bad, but
like I had fun. It was just a community college
class and it was really fun. I mean I didn't
I didn't need to be the best in was I
a little jealous, Yeah, I was a little jealous of
some of the women that were in my class that
were really good at it, but like, oh, I just
(23:58):
wanted to have a good time and have fun. I
would take another class like that. I mean it was fun. Yeah,
And there's.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Something to be said too.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I think about these experiences, whether it's work or it's hobby.
I think doing things that we're bad at is so
good for like grit and resilience. You know, like if
we just did shit that we were good at all
the fucking time, first of all, I think we'd just
be monsters.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
We'd be like narcissistic. I mean, you've met these people.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You have met these people, right that never attempted, never
took any risks, never attempted to do anything they were
bad at, right, and talk a lot of shit about
a lot of shit. They have no frustration tolerance, right,
They're like the type of person that melts down and
the second they can't get their way. God. And so
I think there is something to be said about this
(24:48):
practice of like doing something that you're not good at
and it just building resilience in you and curate. And
I mean it's so cliche to say, but like I
really think it's true. Like we have to expe it's failure,
We have to experience being bad at something. It grounds us,
it humbles us. Those are all good things, right, and
it makes us tougher, makes it tougher. Like the more
(25:09):
you do it, the next time you're faced with something
that you're not good at, you're gonna be less afraid
of it.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
You're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Less feelings of imposter syndrome. You're just gonna be like, well,
I've fucking failed before and it turned out all right,
So here we go.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So much of it is fear, So much of it
is fear.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Fear, and like I you know, fear of I mean,
for us, a lot of times it's like fear of
am I gonna get fired right right right, am I
gonna get let go because they don't think I'm good
And yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Sometimes it's like maybe weren't the right fit for that thing.
Maybe maybe that wasn't the job for you, Like maybe
some weird shit happened, and like you know, you don't
mess with the cast, you don't mess with the whatever,
and like it's just not the right thing, you know,
like and that's okay, Like you can't let it. Like
I mean, we've all heard those stories of people that like,
(26:13):
oh I almost got that job and I didn't get it,
and then it went to so and so, but then
I got this job, which I never would have gotten
if that had gone you know. Yeah, like there's something
there's something also to be said about wanting something really bad, yeah,
and then it not working out and that actually maybe
is maybe you fail at that and then the better
(26:36):
thing comes along, right like this or something better for
the good of all concerned. Sometimes it's just not I
mean we're talking a lot about like keep trying and
keep trying until you succeed, but like you might not
succeed at some stuff and that's okay. You don't have
to be good at every.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Single fucking thing.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You can do some things just because they're fun. You
can also do some things and try them and.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Be like that one for me, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It's okay, that's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
It is okay to not good at stuff like yes,
And I think the trying is so much more important
for our personal growth and our happiness than like never trying,
never taking a risk, never having those experiences right, and
just playing it safe all the time. I have no
(27:24):
interest in playing it safe all the time. It sounds
fucking boring to me, and I think I would be
miserable person. I mean, I like playing and safe sometimes
and sometimes when you need it for your mental sure,
I like, like in the grand scheme of things. Yeah,
there's a difference between playing and safe and being bored.
You know, like there's a big difference there because like
(27:47):
playing in safe you can still grow within that arena,
but being bored like you're never gonna yeah, you're never
gonna grow, You're never gonna you never and like life
is so oh well, bro, it's pretty short. We don't
have a lot of time here. There's not a whole
whole lot not to be like super downy downer about it.
(28:08):
I'm trying to be uppy upper, but there's not there's
not a lot of time. This is the this is
your one and precious life.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Isn't that what Mary Oliver says? I'm misquoting Mary Oliver?
How dare I fail at misquoting? On miss all of
our I want to myst poets our time. There's not
a lot of time, so like, give it a shot,
give it a little shot, just.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
A little shot. There's in our in our Nerd time section.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I want to rename this research that we didn't do,
research that we didn't do.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
From this Forward's article how to shed perfectionism and the
desire to be great at everything by sucking at something.
There's this great story here. First of all, in the article,
it says, the freedom of sucking at something can hell
you build resilience, Like we were just saying, embrace imperfection
and find joy in the pursuit rather than the goal.
(29:08):
And there's this great little story of this dad that
I want to read. One day, standing outside of school,
pickup one of my son's classmates parents, John asked me
how my son was doing in school that year? I said,
he's having a hard time. John turned to my son
and said, it's so great to suck at something. And
I watched my son's face light up, and I thought,
(29:29):
oh my god, that just did more for him than
all the trying to fix the problem. Yes, he never
learned to write, but he wound up being becoming valedictorian
of his senior class. Yeah, Henny, yeah right. And it's
like he was just giving permission to that kid, like,
just suck at it. Yeah, you got to, you gotta work.
You better suck, You better work, you better suck. Right,
(29:52):
And then he goes on to say I was forty
and there was no reason why forty plus should learn
to surf, because it's almost impossible. But I was true,
horse bro, harsh truth, but also true.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
With a little bit that I have served. Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
But I was compelled by it, and I was really
bad at it. I wanted to do it more than
anything else, yet I couldn't do it. I kept persisting.
Hearing John's voice saying it's great to suck at something,
I thought that this could be my thing. It gave
me permission to keep doing it and keep trying. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I love that that right, It's just like and you know,
the enjoying the pursuit of the thing, right, because sometimes
the other part is like, yes, I think it's great
to just suck at something like your flower class, but
you enjoyed it. You enjoyed the pursuit of trying to
learn how to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It wasn't about becoming this like amazing flower arranger, right,
you enjoyed the ride. And I think that that is
such an important like mind shift if you could reframe
it for yourself that way. And then the other side
that we haven't even talked about is like the times
that you get totally fucking surprised by like all of
a sudden something clicks and you become really good at
(31:06):
the thing you sucked at. Like that also happens. Sometimes
it doesn't that happen, but like you would never know,
you would never have that experience, You would never get
that incredible surprise if you didn't like stay in the suck,
you know, and I said to yourself, I'm gonna suck
at this and that's it, and it's okay, it's okay.
It's just like reframing your mindset. It does feel yucky.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
It does feel yucky, yucky, and it's so That's the thing,
is like it's okay. I have to keep telling myself
that in my own life it's okay.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
For it to feel lucky. It doesn't always have to
feel good. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't. I think
we're so used to wanting to be comforted and wanting
to be comfortable, and we have a lot of creature comforts.
We're very very very very lucky. Most of us are
really in we have rooms over our heads, we have
(31:59):
our family are okay, you know. Like again, I'm just
thinking about the fires again, and it's like we're so
we're so happy to be comfortable that like the even
the feeling of the possibility of feeling uncomfortable is like, no,
I don't want to do that. I don't want to
do that. I'm terrified of.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
That, you know, fear Again.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
For me, it's like motherhood. A lot of motherhood for.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Me is like ooh, I don't know if this is
I don't know if I'm good at this, and I
don't I can't really see whether or not I'm good
at it or not. And yeah, I have to keep
telling myself I am good at this It's not going
to feel amazing and comfortable every second. A lot of
this is going to feel bad, downright bad and yucky
(32:44):
and like.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Boo boo. Yeah. But you know, it's like nine years
in I look back and I feel like I'm such
a more resilient person because of motherhood. Oh my god,
totally totally.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I mean three years in, I'm like, whoa I am.
I'm fucking some of the ship that I deal with
or like in my life or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I'm like, I'm fucking tough. I'm like fucking tough and
like for me, no tough.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah that's still because I always thought of myself as
like a really soft, little like sensitive flower, and like
I'm tough and I'm still sensitive. I'm still a sensitive flower. Yeah,
you can be both of those things can be true
at the same time. Anyway, that was a real side
side road that we took more research that we didn't do.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Uh okay, this I thought was really fun. There's like
a ton of famous people that were not you know,
didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Didn't didn't they didn't crack right off the bat, you know,
famous failures.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
This is why we love these stories.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, comforting Smoan Biles, arguably the greatest athlete of all time.
Uh didn't make the US women's junior national team. Martin
Letting junior got to see in public speaking.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Oh wow, oh wowow wow.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Wow wow wow.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I mean, I'm going to venture to say that that
teacher was probably racist, but also.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Producers rejected thirty of Sylvester Saaloon's screenplays before Rocky. Think
about that, Wow about that and like big out.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
When you think about Rocky as a piece of art,
it's like he wrote that so specifically for himself.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Nobody else could have played that role. It was all
of his, you know, idiosyncratic, weird little bits of him that.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
He played into that thing and made it. You know,
it's iconic, legendary. Oprah Winfrey fired from her first TV
job as an anchor in Baltimore, m.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Fired, fired. Steven Spielberg rejected twice by the University of
Southern California School of Cinematic Arts. Rejected twice twice.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
You guys, one of the greatest directors of all time.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Boo boo, boom, boom boom. Oh oh, I liked this one.
Five thousand, one hundred and twenty six is the number
of failed prototypes Sir James Dyson went through over the
course of fifteen years before creating the Baglass vacuum cleaner
that we now know as the Dyson. Now, not only
(35:21):
do I point five billion how much four point five
billion networth?
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Four point five billion?
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Well, I mean I give him money all the time,
but five thousand, one hundred and twenty six prototypes over
fifteen years. Talk about probably feeling imposter syndrome, probably feeling
like maybe you suck and it's not gonna like I'm
sure there were so many moments that he almost quit.
I don't know, probably, I mean, there's a there's also
(35:48):
an element of like blind faith in yourself sometimes that
I think you have to have battling this right of
like you can see the thing right and you have
to like go through the mistakes, you have to go
through the failure to like write. Like writers talk about that,
like they I've been watching the SNL documentary. It's so
on Peacock and Uh, and there's.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
A whole episode that just focuses on the writers and
they like talk about how like they know the first
draft of the sketch is gonna suck.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Like they know it you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
But then that gets the next idea and the next idea,
and like it's this building thing to like arrive at
the funniest version of that sketch. And I think it's
like that for so many things, Like you gotta suck,
you gotta slug through, you gotta like get through all
the bad ideas all the to like finally arrive of
like that light bulb moment where it like clicks and you're.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Like, oh, this is what it is.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
This is the thing, you know, and you can't get
there without fucking failing, falling on your face looking like
an idiot, Like it suck being uncomfortable, Like all the
things we've been talking about can also lead to greatness.
And why would you deny yourself your own greatness? Xander, Yeah,
Zam Xander, God Xander. Don't be afraid of your own greatness.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Don't be of your own greatness.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Don't be annoying all those certifications you're bad at right now.
You might be fucking great at them in the end,
or they might lead to something else that you're fucking
great at. Yeah them, don't deny your greatness. More better
that I think is like a really nice place to
(37:27):
wrap it up. Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
What's interesting is like two people that really understand imposter
syndrome inside and out, baby, if you asked us the
right question, but also two people that have come a
really long way with it. You know, Yes, we've really
both come a very long way with dealing with this
feeling and struggling with it and learning about it. And
(37:54):
we have really really interesting perspectives in terms of like
being human being and artists and parents and being where
we are in our careers and lives. So for someone
just starting out, I think that's a really good it's
a good question to ask people, you know, especially people
that have more experience than you, like, how do you
(38:15):
deal with it?
Speaker 4 (38:16):
How do you feel about it?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
I remember Ted Danson on set like he could not
remember these lines, which was making me laugh a lot,
and then he sort of said to us, I mean,
I'm definitely you know, paraphrasing him, but he was like, God,
isn't wild You just feel like such a you know,
it doesn't matter how long you've worked or what you've done.
It's like the lines don't come out of your mouth
(38:40):
on the way that you want them to.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
And you just feel like such an idiot. But he
had such a good.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Way about saying it, you know, like sort of understanding
and forgiveness of himself for judging himself as an idiot.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Because he's not, you know, and he knows he's not,
but he just feels it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
So like we're not saying any of this to be
like you're never going to feel it again. We're saying like, yeah,
you're gonna feel it. You're human, but these are some
ways that you can like be more better at dealing
with the feeling of And you know, it was so
charming to see him say that too.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Oh my god, I love that, And it's and it's
also it's something I've seen other actors, particularly like very
experienced older actors, Like every first day of every season,
Andre Brower would say.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Oh, I'm nervous, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
And sometimes these incredible guest stars that we would have
come in would do the same thing. And then I
realized like there was a pattern, and like, oh, they
feel these feelings, but they have the experience to just
call it out. Yeah, and they're like in that moment,
they're simultaneously like forgiving themselves, like you said, for having
those feelings and maybe making mistakes, but and they're just
(39:49):
like taking the pressure off themselves, which just like letting
everyone know, like, oh I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Oh that's so funny because I never ever say it,
like I will not I refuse.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Oh, I'm like totally I started using that.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I will say it to myself in my trailer or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
but I won't say it on set. I won't.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
I will say it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
I'll be like I'm excited. Yeah, I'm like a line
of myself. Man, I'll be like, I'm excited to do this.
I can't wait to start.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
I won't. I won't say I'm.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Nervous because I feel for me, that makes me feel
too vulnerable. And what I need to do for myself
for my own process is like I gotta fucking I
gotta coach myself, and you gotta be like, bit, you
got this, you practice, you know what you're doing, you belong,
you are fucking here. You gotta wear those tall black
boots and those skinny jeans and.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
That blood the jacket, you know what I mean. Like,
I have to fucking wind myself up about it. I
can't do the I might be able to.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
When I'm like an old, an old.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
I mean, I think it's different. I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I think what you're describing is that you've learned what
works for you and those moments when you have those feelings. Yeah,
and for me, it's like I need to let the
air out, like to just like say the thing, and
then it's almost like as soon as I say it,
it's like released. Like it's like it's like out of
my body, you know, like everyone knows I'm maybe nervous,
and they're going to forgive my mistakes that I'm about
(41:17):
to make, but I know what I'm doing and like
this is going to like get me back in the
mental state that I need to be in to do this.
Because I say that out loud, then it's like I
planted a little seed and a pot and it'll just
keep growing and growing the whole time that I'm Oh,
I think maybe they're being like I'm excited and like
the seed blew away on the way. Now, it's just
(41:39):
not true. I'm excited and I and I am excited. Yeah,
it's and excitement or like basically the same thing just
in different forms, right. Yeah, So like then I'm like, yeah, bitch,
I'm fucking excited, you know, and then if I make
a mistake, I'm like, well, it's because I'm excited. Yeah,
it's because I'm excited. Guys, It's because I'm really excited
(42:00):
about this. I don't know if you get tell? Oh God, anyway,
do you feel more better?
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I do feel more better?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
How do you? This was a good I liked this
question and I liked thinking about and talking about being
okay with being bad at something. Yeah, it's good, you
got that. Yeah, Xander.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Anyway, guys, thanks for joining us this week, and let
us know again if you have any topics that you
want to to talk to us about.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Okay, bye, bye.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Better.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Do you have something you'd like to be more better
at that you want us to talk about in a
future episode? Can you relate to our struggles or have
you tried one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
gmail dot com and include a voice note if you
want to be featured on the pod. Ooh More Better
with Stephanie Melissa is a production from WV Sound and
iHeartMedia's Mikutura podcast network, hosted by me Stephanie Beatrice and
Melissa FUMERA More Better is produced by Isis Madrid and
Sophie Spencer Zagos. Our executive producers are Wilmer Valderrama and
(43:05):
Leo Clem at w V Sound. This episode was edited
by Isis Madrid and engineered by Sean Tracy and features
original music by Madison Davenport and Helo Boy.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Our cover art is by vincent Remy's and photography by
David Avalos. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
See you next week's sucker Us Bye,
We were standing at the bar and there was a
guy like really pushing me, like really like shoving in
my space, and I was like trying to like kind
of elbow him back, but not really. And then I
turned to the new people that I had just met,
and I was like, you were just standing next to
somebody at a bar and they're crowding you on your
space and you just look at your wine glass and
think what would happen if I just smashed this on
(00:21):
the bar and then stabbed the person behind me? Really
like what would happen?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And they looked at me like I, Oh, no, she's psycho.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Oh no, psycho? Yeah, and they I'm not even kidding.
They were like ah. And then they turned in toward
each other to converse, and I was like, oh it failed.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Better More Better, Hello, Hi, Welcome to More Better, a
podcast where we stop pretending to have it all together
(01:06):
and embrace the journey of becoming a little more better
every day, or.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
At least trying to. That small supermaro.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And that is the one and only Stephanie Beatrice.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Oh my god, stop you go.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
No, I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
How are you doing?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I am okay.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Your whole family has the flu. My entire family came
down with the flu this past weekend. I am shockingly
still healthy and imbelievable think out of the window of
possibly contamination. Uh it was bad. It was really really bad.
There was yeah fevers and chills and throwing.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Up and uh yeah it was. It was bad, man.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And I'm I'm so grateful that I happened to be
home for this, because David was literally in bed for
two days, and I don't know what he would have done.
If I was in Atlanta, he would have been like
parenting from the floor, like he was out. And I
just kept thinking, oh my god, if I wasn't here,
if I was in Atlanta, like so you know, silver lining,
(02:20):
I was here.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
I was able to take care of everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I lysold like a fucking maniac and like washed hands
and like because I was like I cannot go down.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Oh my god, I'm fucking exhausted, though. Bro, what a
what a little break, what a vacation?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
I know, welcome home, mom?
Speaker 2 (02:38):
What a treat?
Speaker 4 (02:39):
What a treat? How are you?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
We saw coyote on our.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Street, I know, yeah, and our dog was like out
in the yard like peeing, because get in a house.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I like, get your ass in the house, sterrifying, terrifying. Yeah,
that's what's been going on here.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
More Better.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Today's episode topic comes from a listener, which is really nice.
We love these.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Emails and like dms and all that stuff. So if
you need help with something in your life or you
have a suggestion for a future episode, email us at
More Better pod at gmail dot com. You can also
include a voice note to be featured on the pod.
So we have an email today from Xander. Great name Xander,
by the way, I love your name. Okay, Hi, Stephanie
(03:32):
and Melissa. I'm Xander from Ohio, and I just want
to say how much I've been loving the pod so far.
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It really has become a highlight of my week, and
it's nice to listen to something that feels like friends
talking to each other.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I just graduated college and I'm pursuing certifications in my field.
But I'm finding that I'm not naturally good at everything. Shocker,
a surprise, surprise, and then none of us are.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I feel a little bit like an imposter.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Sometimes My question is how do I get How should
I get more better at being okay with being bad
at things when I first start out, And how have
you all dealt with feeling imposter syndrome? The feeling of
imposter syndrome? Oh, that's really nice, best Alexander ooh cool
(04:18):
spelled A L E K Z A N D R.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Okay, okay, all right, well you're already more better than
us at names imposter syndrome. Uh okay, So what does
that mean to you, Melissa?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, I loved I think this is such a great
topic and question. Obviously, I think we've all had feelings
of imposter syndrome, but and also like just the thing
of like being bad, like being okay with being bad
at something. Yeah, that's really interesting to me. I've definitely
had that, like.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
All the first season of Brooklyn nine nine.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, talk to me about seasons one through five.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, I mean definitely.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
For me, it was like the most I think intense
first season, just feeling like I didn't know what I
was doing. I didn't know if I was good at it,
at it being comedy and landing I would get I've
talked about it before, how I would like have panic
when I got the joke lines. I wanted to have
all the setups, because I felt like that was I
(05:28):
was more comfortable there, like lobbing something to someone else,
like someone else do the funny part, and I'll just
like toss you the ball. And I don't know if
you remember our producing director first couple of seasons, Craig's
Zig and I used to first season, after every take,
(05:48):
I would look for Craig through the crowd and then
he would just give me a little fun thumbs up. Oh,
that's so nice.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
A generous person.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Such a generous person were in Trash the first season
I was, and I was just so unsure of everything
I was doing. And then he literally became like a
crutch like for me. If I didn't he see him
and I didn't get my little thumbs up, I would
like spiral wow and yeah, and I just you know,
(06:16):
And then the funny thing is later I remember, actually
it was with a moment I had with Chelsea Peretti.
There was a moment where I was with her and
Jordan and I want to say it was even like
at the Golden Globes or something, and which is such
a weird thing to say, Sorry, that was just the setting.
(06:38):
But and they were complimenting me on the work I
was doing on the show, and I was like so perplexed,
like I couldn't even receive the compliments, and I was like, guys,
i don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm just
trying to do different things on every take because I
feel like everything I do is bad and I don't
know what I'm doing and it's you know, I just
(06:58):
feel so lost and I'm so fucking nervous all the time.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
And they just looked at me and they were like.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Like almost like, Babe, that's how you do comedy, Like
you just try a bunch of different shit, and they
kind of just like gave me this assurance of like
the way I was doing it was actually the way
I should be doing it. And something about that interaction
that moment kind of gave me some extra confidence.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, okay, I'll.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Just like, oh, my two of some of the funniest people,
Yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I mean yeah, Chelsea Pretty and Jordan Pee will tell
you you're doing okay.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
You're like you're doing good. Maybe I'm doing okay.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, what's been your experience with some of this? I
think imposter syndrome is pretty normal for everybody because it's
like you know, not to get to wu wu. But
all of it is based in like our ideas of
like ourselves and how we how we appear to others,
(07:53):
and our need for And I'm including myself in this.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I'm not being like, oh need you know, our need
for approval from others and how that makes up you know,
a large part of who we are as people and
as artists.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But you know, every but I think everybody feels this way.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Everybody feels there's something happens and I don't know when, right,
because I think little kids have it too. Yeah, but
there's something they're human about wanting to be a part
of the group and look like you belong to the group.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
That's why kids copy adults around them. It's why kids
copy older kids. It's why teenage girls are so horrible
to each other sometimes because they're all desiring and wanting
to belong. Yeah, some of them, some of them. Some
(08:47):
of us have stronger thinking about myself as a teenage girls,
some of us have stronger role models in that like
meaning that not that not that all role models aren't strong,
but I think that they're something that happens, Like where
if the adults around you are like, you are inherently good.
You don't need to be or do anything just by
(09:10):
being yourself. You're fantastic and great and you're very, very loved.
And if you have that, I think a lot from
the time that you're little you probably died, didn't, but
you probably grow up feeling kind of like I'm pretty deese.
Like as a person, you know, like I'm pretty decee.
And and I think, you know, not to put too
(09:34):
fine a point on it, but I think a lot
of men grow up.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Kind of being like I'm pretty decee.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
That's why you see a lot of men enter spaces
where maybe they aren't the best, or aren't experienced, or
aren't whatever, and they're just like, well, I belong here.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I belong in the space, right And.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Because it been told that they belong in spaces from
the time that they were young, they don't ever remember
not belonging in spaces. So if you're someone that hasn't
grown up that way, then when you get into spaces,
you automatically start feeling like you don't belong You're.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Not supposed to be here. You are You've somehow managed
to convince the people in power that you belong here
by some strange part of your brain that somehow told
you that it was acceptable for you to even, you know,
in our case audition, how dare you have the audacity
to audition for this?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Like meanwhile, now you've gotten it and you are fucked
because you do not measure up right. But I think
the thing that I've started to hold on to as
an adult, even when it gives me butterflies, is like,
but there is some small part of me that was like,
I belong here. There is some flame inside me that
I can continue to feed that is like bitch.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
You funny, you know, like or like you know.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I remember I remember auditioning for Rosa Diaz and I
was like, what do I wear to this?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Like what do I What do I wear? And I thought, oh,
I know? And I put together these big black boots
that I had that were like platform, really sexy boots
that I had gotten in like a gift exchange or something,
or a clothing exchange, black jeans, really tight black jeans
that I had left over from a thing that I
(11:27):
had done, and a leather jacket that someone had given me.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
And I was like, who am I in this outfit?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Because like, not the way that I thought of myself.
I didn't think of myself as like was sort of
sexy and tough. That was not me at all, But
it was her on the page, and I was like,
I could do that, and I lived there's some flame
in the back of my mind that I was like,
I could do it.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Or speaking of imposter syndrome and going back to what
you were saying about not having role models or not
having the example that made me.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
That reminded me of that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Great quote that America Frarra has about imposter syndrome where
she essentially said like she had this realization at some
point that she feels strange in new spaces because she's
often the first person like her there totally, and like
that's all it is, right, Like, if you've never seen
someone who looks like you or has your same background
(12:34):
or whatever, it is, right, because sometimes it's superficial or
racial identity, and sometimes it's just our upbringing or our
family dynamic, whatever it is. And if we've never seen
someone like us doing the thing that we're trying to do,
you feel like the first You feel like there's nothing
(12:56):
to compare yourself to. Right, and that I think is
is often where those feelings of imposter syndrome come from.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
And but I love the way she kind.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Of flipped it of just like, oh, it's just that
maybe this space hasn't been open to someone like me,
and maybe this is you know, maybe I am the
first in some sense, but that doesn't mean that I'm
not qualified.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
That doesn't mean I'm not capable, that doesn't mean you know, yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
It just kind of like breaks down some of those
walls and that idea of being an impostor. Right.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Yeah, it's just like it's just new. It's just different.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's you know, and you don't have someone to kind
of just hold in your mind of just you know,
well they did it, so I can do it. You know.
It's like oftentimes when we're trying something new or intimidating,
you know, there are times where we have that person like, well,
they did it, so I know I can do it.
But when we don't have that, it's just that much
(13:53):
more overwhelming, that much more intimidating. And it's just all
fucking fear, right, It's all like resistance in our brains, like,
and it's such a human thing.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And I think.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Everyone no matter where you're from or what you look like,
has had that feeling before. It's like such a human
feeling to me. Yeah, it's like I think the goal
isn't you know, eradicating it, because that's not possible, right, No,
(14:25):
but I do. I guess the goal is like.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Doing it anyway or doing it, you know, in terms
of in terms of what Xander's asking about. It's like,
I'm trying this new stuff. I'm trying new things and
I'm shocker, I'm not good at everything that I try
right right, And like it's a sucky feeling because it's
embarrassing to not be kind of stuff. You know, it's
(14:52):
really really hard, embarrassing, and it sucks to fail, Like
it sucks to try and then fail because like most
of the time somebody's watching, you know, in the case
of a joke, it doesn't land and nobody laughs.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
You know, right Faday.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I went out the other night Saturday, and we went
to see Kumasi Washington play.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It's this incredible jazz.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Musician and his band and it was really great and
it was in this cool new space. It was very
like cool so la right, and I was like, Okay,
I'm just gonna be myself in this space, like I
don't I don't need to compete. It's not about that.
I'm just here with my husband and we're having a
great time. We saw some friends and then I met
some new people and we were standing at the bar
(15:41):
and there's a guy like really pushing me, like really
like shoving in my space, and I was like trying
to like kind of elbow him back, but not really.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
And then I turned to the new.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
People that I had just met, and I was like,
you were just standing next to somebody at a bar
and they're crowding you in your space and you just
look at your wine glass and think what would happen
if I just smashed this on the bar and then.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Stabbed the person behind me, really like what would happen?
And they looked at me like I, Oh no, she's psycho.
Oh no, psycho? Yeah, and they I'm not even kidding,
they were like and then they turned in toward each
other to converse, and I was like, oh, it failed
(16:23):
that way.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
That it didn't land for whatever, It just needed context.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
It just you know, if you would said that in
front of me, I would have died laughing. I mean
also you know, maybe that they're not funny, maybe they're
not maybe maybe they're not like yeah, I don't know,
I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
But in that moment, I was like, oh, well, you know,
whereas like a few years ago, ten years ago, I
might have been like, oh my god, that's so mortifying
these people, Brad, it's so stupid.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
I think some of the imposter syndrome stuff is time
trying plus time meaning try, you try, you try, you try,
and the more that you try, the more you go Like,
some of the stuff is just not gonna land, and
and it's less and less uh embarrassing and painful the
(17:15):
more that you try. I would assume I'm not I
don't play sports.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I'm not I'm not athletic.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
But I would assume that it is similar in terms
of like training for something, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
And oh, well, I guess I am a little more
athletic than I thought. You know, you're selling yourself yourself short.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
You are athletic when it turns, when it comes.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Maybe you're not sporty, but you're not. Yeah, those are
two different things. Those are two different things. I'm not sporty,
but I'm athletic.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Practicing meaning like, uh, doing like fight scenes or like
practicing stuff like that. The beginning of doing that kind
of stuff was really scary to me because.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Like and sometimes I couldn't get it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Do you remember that time we were shooting that thing
in the arcade and I had to like grab a
gun a certain way and I just like could not
get it.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Do you remember this?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
We were in that weird arcade slash go kart place
like way out yeah, yeah, and like there was some
gun move that I had to do, and they taught
it to me like right on set, and I was like,
I'm never fucking gonna get this, and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I couldn't get it. And like I think we did.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
They cut it together great and it looked right right,
But at.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
The time I was like, oh, dying inside because all
of you guys were there and I was like, I
can't get this and I look stupid. Ultimately, it was fine,
They're not going to make me look stupid on the show, right,
And ultimately I think the thing that happens is we
are so judgmental of ourselves, yeah, mental of ourselves, and
(18:53):
some of the judgment is okay, meaning like some of
the I could have done that better, How could.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
I work that joke better? Or what would you know?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
What?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
What could I do better next time? Like what was
the feedback that I got from my professors, or what
was the feedback that I got from you know, whoever
I'm dealing with on a person personal basis in my
new job or whatever. Let me apply some of that
feedback and see how I can get better at this thing. Yes,
but that's different than I'm so stupid. I'm so bad
at this, I'll never be good at this. I should
(19:22):
just stop trying. Yeah, there's there. It's really hard to
grow from that mindset. Yeah, and I would venture to
guess that Xander is probably pretty talented. Yeah. And I
think the thing that happens when you're naturally good at
something like you know, and I think we feel this
in our job, right, We've always been naturally good at acting,
(19:47):
and then when something comes up like a fight choreography
or a gun move or I never fucking could do
handcuffs on Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
I was so bad at handcuffs. I could never fucking
do them.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
It really like throws you because you're like, wait, there's
something I'm not that I'm not getting right away. There's
something that's not clicking right away. But the truth is,
most of the time, for most people, that's how it goes.
Like my kids are starting, you know, are getting into
like sports, and they're getting to those ages and uh,
(20:21):
like little Axel has like started jiu jitsu and now
he's really into it. But in the beginning he was
really nervous, he was really shy, and he kept saying,
I'm not good at it.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I'm not good at it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And I was like, well, no one's ever good at
anything when they first started. You've never done it before,
You've never done it. This is your first time. So like,
there is something about when you are bad at something,
you gotta gotta get your mind right. You got to
like stay in that I'm learning, I'm trying something that's hard,
which is good for me, and being bad at this
(20:53):
is actually going to make the things I'm already good
at better and that there will be growth. If you
can keep your mind right, there can be growth. You
can get better at the thing that you're attempting to do.
And it might be a slow might, you might struggle
through it. It might not be as great as your
(21:15):
other strengths. But I really believe that, like, if you
stick with it, if you accept those mistakes, like you
were saying, you just like kind of roll with it,
keep checking in, keep challenging yourself to improve, not make
the same mistakes over and over. Yeah, and just see
it as like a growth thing. At the end, you
(21:36):
probably will be pretty decent that the thing you started
out being bad at, and then the other things that
you are already good at will improve also, like especially
if they're all related. Again, we don't know what the
field is, but you know, just me fumbling with frickin'
handcuffs for eight seasons of Brooklyn never never got them never,
(21:56):
God no, I would hold them behind them. I would
always just make this motion and then just hold them back.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I got real good at faking it, Yeah, real good
at figuring out where the camera is, how I can
fake it, how it can make it look like I
clicked that shit so fast. Yeah. I never did, ever did.
But I walked away with a new skill of being
able to fake that shit so good. Yeah, man. And
that's like that's the I mean, that's the other thing
(22:24):
is like the narrow idea of what is supposed to happen,
the narrow, narrow ideas of how this is supposed to go,
and how you were a success at this. Right, if
you measured your success on whether or not at the
end of eight seasons you could actually do those handcuffs,
you'd still be fucking pissed off at yourself. But if
you measure your success about like, well, does it look
(22:45):
like I know what I'm doing as a cop on camera?
And was anybody distracted during the scene? And is the
storyline still going? The answer is yes to all of
those things. So yeah, you were success.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's sometimes about how you're looking at the thing, like
you were saying, and my picture incrementally getting better at
this thing? Am I Maybe you're not like the best
in your fucking class, but maybe you had fun. I
mean I took a flower arranging class and ikebana class
once and like, oh.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
I remember when you did that.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was not good at it, but it was fun.
Like the teacher would come around and be like no,
and she would she would take her We had these
shears that we had to get that were like super
super sharp cutting shears, and literally she would come around
and like chop the heads off my flowers. Oh my god,
take it things out, because she just was not having
(23:32):
my arrangement.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
She was like, you are a wasting space here.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Basically, she was like, you're really bad at this, thank
you for trying. And I was probably pretty bad, but
like I had fun. It was just a community college
class and it was really fun. I mean I didn't
I didn't need to be the best in was I
a little jealous, Yeah, I was a little jealous of
some of the women that were in my class that
were really good at it, but like, oh, I just
(23:58):
wanted to have a good time and have fun. I
would take another class like that. I mean it was fun. Yeah,
And there's.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
Something to be said too.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I think about these experiences, whether it's work or it's hobby.
I think doing things that we're bad at is so
good for like grit and resilience. You know, like if
we just did shit that we were good at all
the fucking time, first of all, I think we'd just
be monsters.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
We'd be like narcissistic. I mean, you've met these people.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You have met these people, right that never attempted, never
took any risks, never attempted to do anything they were
bad at, right, and talk a lot of shit about
a lot of shit. They have no frustration tolerance, right,
They're like the type of person that melts down and
the second they can't get their way. God. And so
I think there is something to be said about this
(24:48):
practice of like doing something that you're not good at
and it just building resilience in you and curate. And
I mean it's so cliche to say, but like I
really think it's true. Like we have to expe it's failure,
We have to experience being bad at something. It grounds us,
it humbles us. Those are all good things, right, and
it makes us tougher, makes it tougher. Like the more
(25:09):
you do it, the next time you're faced with something
that you're not good at, you're gonna be less afraid
of it.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
You're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Less feelings of imposter syndrome. You're just gonna be like, well,
I've fucking failed before and it turned out all right,
So here we go.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
So much of it is fear, So much of it
is fear.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Fear, and like I you know, fear of I mean,
for us, a lot of times it's like fear of
am I gonna get fired right right right, am I
gonna get let go because they don't think I'm good
And yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Sometimes it's like maybe weren't the right fit for that thing.
Maybe maybe that wasn't the job for you, Like maybe
some weird shit happened, and like you know, you don't
mess with the cast, you don't mess with the whatever,
and like it's just not the right thing, you know,
like and that's okay, Like you can't let it. Like
I mean, we've all heard those stories of people that like,
(26:13):
oh I almost got that job and I didn't get it,
and then it went to so and so, but then
I got this job, which I never would have gotten
if that had gone you know. Yeah, like there's something
there's something also to be said about wanting something really bad, yeah,
and then it not working out and that actually maybe
is maybe you fail at that and then the better
(26:36):
thing comes along, right like this or something better for
the good of all concerned. Sometimes it's just not I
mean we're talking a lot about like keep trying and
keep trying until you succeed, but like you might not
succeed at some stuff and that's okay. You don't have
to be good at every.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Single fucking thing.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
You can do some things just because they're fun. You
can also do some things and try them and.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Be like that one for me, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
It's okay, that's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
It is okay to not good at stuff like yes,
And I think the trying is so much more important
for our personal growth and our happiness than like never trying,
never taking a risk, never having those experiences right, and
just playing it safe all the time. I have no
(27:24):
interest in playing it safe all the time. It sounds
fucking boring to me, and I think I would be
miserable person. I mean, I like playing and safe sometimes
and sometimes when you need it for your mental sure,
I like, like in the grand scheme of things. Yeah,
there's a difference between playing and safe and being bored.
You know, like there's a big difference there because like
(27:47):
playing in safe you can still grow within that arena,
but being bored like you're never gonna yeah, you're never
gonna grow, You're never gonna you never and like life
is so oh well, bro, it's pretty short. We don't
have a lot of time here. There's not a whole
whole lot not to be like super downy downer about it.
(28:08):
I'm trying to be uppy upper, but there's not there's
not a lot of time. This is the this is
your one and precious life.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Isn't that what Mary Oliver says? I'm misquoting Mary Oliver?
How dare I fail at misquoting? On miss all of
our I want to myst poets our time. There's not
a lot of time, so like, give it a shot,
give it a little shot, just.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
A little shot. There's in our in our Nerd time section.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
I want to rename this research that we didn't do,
research that we didn't do.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
From this Forward's article how to shed perfectionism and the
desire to be great at everything by sucking at something.
There's this great story here. First of all, in the article,
it says, the freedom of sucking at something can hell
you build resilience, Like we were just saying, embrace imperfection
and find joy in the pursuit rather than the goal.
(29:08):
And there's this great little story of this dad that
I want to read. One day, standing outside of school,
pickup one of my son's classmates parents, John asked me
how my son was doing in school that year? I said,
he's having a hard time. John turned to my son
and said, it's so great to suck at something. And
I watched my son's face light up, and I thought,
(29:29):
oh my god, that just did more for him than
all the trying to fix the problem. Yes, he never
learned to write, but he wound up being becoming valedictorian
of his senior class. Yeah, Henny, yeah right. And it's
like he was just giving permission to that kid, like,
just suck at it. Yeah, you got to, you gotta work.
You better suck, You better work, you better suck. Right,
(29:52):
And then he goes on to say I was forty
and there was no reason why forty plus should learn
to surf, because it's almost impossible. But I was true,
horse bro, harsh truth, but also true.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
With a little bit that I have served. Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
But I was compelled by it, and I was really
bad at it. I wanted to do it more than
anything else, yet I couldn't do it. I kept persisting.
Hearing John's voice saying it's great to suck at something,
I thought that this could be my thing. It gave
me permission to keep doing it and keep trying. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I love that that right, It's just like and you know,
the enjoying the pursuit of the thing, right, because sometimes
the other part is like, yes, I think it's great
to just suck at something like your flower class, but
you enjoyed it. You enjoyed the pursuit of trying to
learn how to do that.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It wasn't about becoming this like amazing flower arranger, right,
you enjoyed the ride. And I think that that is
such an important like mind shift if you could reframe
it for yourself that way. And then the other side
that we haven't even talked about is like the times
that you get totally fucking surprised by like all of
a sudden something clicks and you become really good at
(31:06):
the thing you sucked at. Like that also happens. Sometimes
it doesn't that happen, but like you would never know,
you would never have that experience, You would never get
that incredible surprise if you didn't like stay in the suck,
you know, and I said to yourself, I'm gonna suck
at this and that's it, and it's okay, it's okay.
It's just like reframing your mindset. It does feel yucky.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
It does feel yucky, yucky, and it's so That's the thing,
is like it's okay. I have to keep telling myself
that in my own life it's okay.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
For it to feel lucky. It doesn't always have to
feel good. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't. I think
we're so used to wanting to be comforted and wanting
to be comfortable, and we have a lot of creature comforts.
We're very very very very lucky. Most of us are
really in we have rooms over our heads, we have
(31:59):
our family are okay, you know. Like again, I'm just
thinking about the fires again, and it's like we're so
we're so happy to be comfortable that like the even
the feeling of the possibility of feeling uncomfortable is like, no,
I don't want to do that. I don't want to
do that. I'm terrified of.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
That, you know, fear Again.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
For me, it's like motherhood. A lot of motherhood for.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Me is like ooh, I don't know if this is
I don't know if I'm good at this, and I
don't I can't really see whether or not I'm good
at it or not. And yeah, I have to keep
telling myself I am good at this It's not going
to feel amazing and comfortable every second. A lot of
this is going to feel bad, downright bad and yucky
(32:44):
and like.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Boo boo. Yeah. But you know, it's like nine years
in I look back and I feel like I'm such
a more resilient person because of motherhood. Oh my god,
totally totally.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I mean three years in, I'm like, whoa I am.
I'm fucking some of the ship that I deal with
or like in my life or whatever.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
I'm like, I'm fucking tough. I'm like fucking tough and
like for me, no tough.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah that's still because I always thought of myself as
like a really soft, little like sensitive flower, and like
I'm tough and I'm still sensitive. I'm still a sensitive flower. Yeah,
you can be both of those things can be true
at the same time. Anyway, that was a real side
side road that we took more research that we didn't do.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Uh okay, this I thought was really fun. There's like
a ton of famous people that were not you know,
didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Didn't didn't they didn't crack right off the bat, you know,
famous failures.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
This is why we love these stories.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, comforting Smoan Biles, arguably the greatest athlete of all time.
Uh didn't make the US women's junior national team. Martin
Letting junior got to see in public speaking.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Oh wow, oh wowow wow.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Wow wow wow.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
I mean, I'm going to venture to say that that
teacher was probably racist, but also.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Producers rejected thirty of Sylvester Saaloon's screenplays before Rocky. Think
about that, Wow about that and like big out.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
When you think about Rocky as a piece of art,
it's like he wrote that so specifically for himself.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Nobody else could have played that role. It was all
of his, you know, idiosyncratic, weird little bits of him that.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
He played into that thing and made it. You know,
it's iconic, legendary. Oprah Winfrey fired from her first TV
job as an anchor in Baltimore, m.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Fired, fired. Steven Spielberg rejected twice by the University of
Southern California School of Cinematic Arts. Rejected twice twice.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
You guys, one of the greatest directors of all time.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Boo boo, boom, boom boom. Oh oh, I liked this one.
Five thousand, one hundred and twenty six is the number
of failed prototypes Sir James Dyson went through over the
course of fifteen years before creating the Baglass vacuum cleaner
that we now know as the Dyson. Now, not only
(35:21):
do I point five billion how much four point five
billion networth?
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Four point five billion?
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Well, I mean I give him money all the time,
but five thousand, one hundred and twenty six prototypes over
fifteen years. Talk about probably feeling imposter syndrome, probably feeling
like maybe you suck and it's not gonna like I'm
sure there were so many moments that he almost quit.
I don't know, probably, I mean, there's a there's also
(35:48):
an element of like blind faith in yourself sometimes that
I think you have to have battling this right of
like you can see the thing right and you have
to like go through the mistakes, you have to go
through the failure to like write. Like writers talk about that,
like they I've been watching the SNL documentary. It's so
on Peacock and Uh, and there's.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
A whole episode that just focuses on the writers and
they like talk about how like they know the first
draft of the sketch is gonna suck.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Like they know it you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
But then that gets the next idea and the next idea,
and like it's this building thing to like arrive at
the funniest version of that sketch. And I think it's
like that for so many things, Like you gotta suck,
you gotta slug through, you gotta like get through all
the bad ideas all the to like finally arrive of
like that light bulb moment where it like clicks and you're.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Like, oh, this is what it is.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
This is the thing, you know, and you can't get
there without fucking failing, falling on your face looking like
an idiot, Like it suck being uncomfortable, Like all the
things we've been talking about can also lead to greatness.
And why would you deny yourself your own greatness? Xander, Yeah,
Zam Xander, God Xander. Don't be afraid of your own greatness.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Don't be of your own greatness.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Don't be annoying all those certifications you're bad at right now.
You might be fucking great at them in the end,
or they might lead to something else that you're fucking
great at. Yeah them, don't deny your greatness. More better
that I think is like a really nice place to
(37:27):
wrap it up. Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
What's interesting is like two people that really understand imposter
syndrome inside and out, baby, if you asked us the
right question, but also two people that have come a
really long way with it. You know, Yes, we've really
both come a very long way with dealing with this
feeling and struggling with it and learning about it. And
(37:54):
we have really really interesting perspectives in terms of like
being human being and artists and parents and being where
we are in our careers and lives. So for someone
just starting out, I think that's a really good it's
a good question to ask people, you know, especially people
that have more experience than you, like, how do you
(38:15):
deal with it?
Speaker 4 (38:16):
How do you feel about it?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
I remember Ted Danson on set like he could not
remember these lines, which was making me laugh a lot,
and then he sort of said to us, I mean,
I'm definitely you know, paraphrasing him, but he was like, God,
isn't wild You just feel like such a you know,
it doesn't matter how long you've worked or what you've done.
It's like the lines don't come out of your mouth
(38:40):
on the way that you want them to.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
And you just feel like such an idiot. But he
had such a good.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Way about saying it, you know, like sort of understanding
and forgiveness of himself for judging himself as an idiot.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Because he's not, you know, and he knows he's not,
but he just feels it.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
So like we're not saying any of this to be
like you're never going to feel it again. We're saying like, yeah,
you're gonna feel it. You're human, but these are some
ways that you can like be more better at dealing
with the feeling of And you know, it was so
charming to see him say that too.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Oh my god, I love that, And it's and it's
also it's something I've seen other actors, particularly like very
experienced older actors, Like every first day of every season,
Andre Brower would say.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Oh, I'm nervous, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
And sometimes these incredible guest stars that we would have
come in would do the same thing. And then I
realized like there was a pattern, and like, oh, they
feel these feelings, but they have the experience to just
call it out. Yeah, and they're like in that moment,
they're simultaneously like forgiving themselves, like you said, for having
those feelings and maybe making mistakes, but and they're just
(39:49):
like taking the pressure off themselves, which just like letting
everyone know, like, oh I'm nervous.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Oh that's so funny because I never ever say it,
like I will not I refuse.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Oh, I'm like totally I started using that.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I will say it to myself in my trailer or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
but I won't say it on set. I won't.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
I will say it.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
I'll be like I'm excited. Yeah, I'm like a line
of myself. Man, I'll be like, I'm excited to do this.
I can't wait to start.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
I won't. I won't say I'm.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Nervous because I feel for me, that makes me feel
too vulnerable. And what I need to do for myself
for my own process is like I gotta fucking I
gotta coach myself, and you gotta be like, bit, you
got this, you practice, you know what you're doing, you belong,
you are fucking here. You gotta wear those tall black
boots and those skinny jeans and.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
That blood the jacket, you know what I mean. Like,
I have to fucking wind myself up about it. I
can't do the I might be able to.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
When I'm like an old, an old.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
I mean, I think it's different. I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I think what you're describing is that you've learned what
works for you and those moments when you have those feelings. Yeah,
and for me, it's like I need to let the
air out, like to just like say the thing, and
then it's almost like as soon as I say it,
it's like released. Like it's like it's like out of
my body, you know, like everyone knows I'm maybe nervous,
and they're going to forgive my mistakes that I'm about
(41:17):
to make, but I know what I'm doing and like
this is going to like get me back in the
mental state that I need to be in to do this.
Because I say that out loud, then it's like I
planted a little seed and a pot and it'll just
keep growing and growing the whole time that I'm Oh,
I think maybe they're being like I'm excited and like
the seed blew away on the way. Now, it's just
(41:39):
not true. I'm excited and I and I am excited. Yeah,
it's and excitement or like basically the same thing just
in different forms, right. Yeah, So like then I'm like, yeah, bitch,
I'm fucking excited, you know, and then if I make
a mistake, I'm like, well, it's because I'm excited. Yeah,
it's because I'm excited. Guys, It's because I'm really excited
(42:00):
about this. I don't know if you get tell? Oh God, anyway,
do you feel more better?
Speaker 4 (42:05):
I do feel more better?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
How do you? This was a good I liked this
question and I liked thinking about and talking about being
okay with being bad at something. Yeah, it's good, you
got that. Yeah, Xander.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Anyway, guys, thanks for joining us this week, and let
us know again if you have any topics that you
want to to talk to us about.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Okay, bye, bye.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Better.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Do you have something you'd like to be more better
at that you want us to talk about in a
future episode? Can you relate to our struggles or have
you tried one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
gmail dot com and include a voice note if you
want to be featured on the pod. Ooh More Better
with Stephanie Melissa is a production from WV Sound and
iHeartMedia's Mikutura podcast network, hosted by me Stephanie Beatrice and
Melissa FUMERA More Better is produced by Isis Madrid and
Sophie Spencer Zagos. Our executive producers are Wilmer Valderrama and
(43:05):
Leo Clem at w V Sound. This episode was edited
by Isis Madrid and engineered by Sean Tracy and features
original music by Madison Davenport and Helo Boy.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Our cover art is by vincent Remy's and photography by
David Avalos. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
See you next week's sucker Us Bye,
Hosts And Creators
Stephanie Beatriz
Melissa Fumero
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