July 23, 2025 • 30 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death. We have a
breaking news episode for you guys right now. We just
sat here all afternoon watching the Brian Coburger plea deal
and his sentencing and god, so much stuff happened over
the course of the past couple of hours, so we
(00:25):
have a lot of opinions that we're going to talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah. Sorry to bombard you guys with breaking news episodes
this month, but it has been absolutely outrageous in the
true crime world between Karen Reid, Diddy and now this.
And you know, we've been following this case so closely
since it happened a couple of years ago, so this
kind of takes priority over everything else right now.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, I mean, we did learn some new stuff from this. First,
I want to say that let's talk about Brian's just
disposition first and just him again. I've said just a
million times that his eyes are crazy. I don't know
if you just saw my rant on my Instagram stories
today just going through all of this stuff, but his
(01:10):
eyes look insane and at some points he was doing
these really long blinks, which was making me think that
he was sedated in some way, like on his anax
or something, because he almost looked like it was he
was out of it and having a hard time keeping
his eyes open, or he was just incredibly bored. But
(01:30):
then from time to time he would look over at
places and his eyes were just bugging out in a
weird way, and he just looked completely dead, like alive
but dead.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I don't know. I have a hard time with it
because in some regard, I want to be like, you
have to be medicated to sit there for hours and
have people tell you what a piece of shit you
are and how you've ruined their life and just have
absolutely no emotional response to it. But at the same time,
he's like a complete mom that didn't care. I mean,
at times it looked like he was kind of smirking
a little bit. You thought you even saw him Rolla's
(02:06):
eyes at one point, which is so ridiculous for this case.
But I feel like even with these other killers we've seen,
I don't know, I just I even see them look
like angry or annoyed or whatever, and he kind of
just kept his crazy straight face this entire time. So
to that point, I guess he did have been medicated.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
He did. But when the families start and we'll go
through their testimonies and their the impact the impact statements.
But when some of them started ripping into him, his
nostrils started flaring out, which I did notice. So another
another really bizarre thing about him, just besides him just
(02:48):
being his weird, lanky self in general, is that he
had this picture with him with a black heart on it,
and it's just so attention seeking and like, oh, I'm
so dark and evil and like, I don't know, it's
just it's just he's just such as he just is
so socially like he's just a dork. I don't know
(03:11):
what else to say.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
All right, well, let's go through it from the beginning.
So he shows up to court wearing the typical orange jumpsuit,
belly chains and leg irons, which it was really satisfying
to see him locked up like this, right, I think
we've seen him in the orange before, correct.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But oh yeah, when he got arrested.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, but like I don't know something about the scene
and knowing that he was like facing his fate was
really satisfying to see. And then it goes right into
the impact statement. So first we had the two roommates,
which was crazy. Well, the first impact statement was from
the one roommate, Bethany, but she had a friend read
it for her. I can't even possibly imagine having to
(03:51):
read something like this. I mean, we all know I'm
super emotional, but I was tearing up through like every
single one of them. It was honestly, it was really
really hard to listen to.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So you know, one thing that was unexpected for me
going into this is because I I personally think, and
this is way before the Coburger case, just any case,
I oftentimes think, what is the point of the families
even saying this stuff to him because they're or to
the person that killed their family member, Because ultimately, most
(04:26):
killers are not remorseful, and the certainly in this case,
he does not seem to be remorseful. So you sitting
there and telling what a beautiful person your loved one was,
and how you know just what you took away from
the earth, and how let's destroy your life, it doesn't
like he doesn't care. And it's very hard to grasp
(04:49):
that you could be crying in front of another human
individual that took your child's life away and them not
caring is probably the hardest part of all of this.
But I was kind of. I had an unexpected reaction
myself hearing from their survivors, who in fact seemed to
be living an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
No, totally, because I believe Dylan had said something along
the lines of people call me survivor, but they won't
acknowledge my new reality, which is she's living a life
of constant panic attacks. Both her and Bethany, in their
statements had said after the attacks they had to sleep
with their parents for months after it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
That's just so, that's so heartbreaking to hear that. No,
I mean think absolutely. You just think about that he
essentially stole any maturity that they've got, in any kind
of independence that they got when they went away to college,
and put them back to being a four year old
(05:54):
who's scared of the dark. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean, Bethany was saying that she was scared he
was going to come back for her, and that she
was at a point where she was making her parents
close all the blinds in their house so nobody could
even see her. Let's not forget they were getting death
threats from strangers online blaming them for not calling the
police right away, which I feel A new piece of
information I learned today was Bethany's saying that she had
(06:19):
a toothache and that's why she had called her father
that morning, and she was kind of out of it,
and she was really regretful of not calling nine one
one right away. And she also has survivor's guilt and
couldn't look at the families forever because not only is
she grieving the loss of all of her friends, but
then you're sitting there like thinking, why did I survive
what happened in my case? How am I supposed to
(06:39):
look these people in the eye that lost their kid.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It's horrible. Yeah, And we don't have the autopsies reports
as of yet, which we will talk about as soon
as we get access to them, if we get access
to them. But one of the things that the little
bit of information that they've given us, which will go
over that to the press conference they just had, which
was a clown show in my opinion. But what we
(07:06):
do know is that they were they had sharp force
injuries and exanguination. They bled out all over the place,
and it doesn't even matter if she witnessed it and
called nine one one at that very moment, they likely
would not have survived those injuries. And we don't know
the extent of how bad the injuries were, but it
(07:27):
seems as if there were not only just stab wounds,
but slash wounds too, the things that just couldn't have
been easily repaired to even stabilize a patient, to bring
them to the hospital in time with that amount of
blood loss. So there's there's it's hard to just look
at this, this poor young woman and say, there's nothing
(07:47):
you could have did if you called at four in
the morning, or if you called it four at night
the next day, like you weren't doing anything, but just
the amount I mean, imagine going through something like that
and not having the entire world supporting you and feeling
bad for you, but actually having people blame you. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And so let's get back to your point of saying, like, initially,
you know, between the victims and Maddy Mugan's family, they
were kind of just going over what an amazing person
she was and how they how he took her from
them and everything like that. But you had said before
the Gonsoalve's family came up, like he doesn't care about
(08:29):
what he did to these good people, right, I literally
said before the Consalves' family went on. I was just like,
they need to get to him and tell him because
he thinks he's some kind of criminal mind genius and all,
and they need to like belittle him and let him
know that he sucked at it, because that's going to
(08:49):
get under his skin, Like that's something that would bother him.
That what is not bothering him is is people crying
and saying, oh, like, my poor sister and I have
to sleep with my mom. None of that bothered him,
But I really saw a change in his facial movements
when the consolvest the dad. I was, I was looking
forward to seeing what he would say because he's been
(09:11):
the most outspoken and.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
The sister was just a surprise, just the rock star
and the whole entire thing. Honestly, like, but why don't
why don't you just give a summary of what that
family said at that point, Yes, for those that didn't
watch it, the.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Dad was awesome and calling him a joke, pointing out
his failures. They said they were going to be laughing
at him at just how sloppy he was, and basically
all of this basically letting them know that even though
he took their daughter away, he was not the winner
in this situation. Then Kelly's sister, who was honestly such
a superstar, came up. I don't know how she talked
(09:50):
with such conviction to him. I would have been crying
and just blubbering about it, but she was so strong willed.
She called him out thinking, I guess he used a
gift card to buy the knife on Amazon, and she said, like, basically,
you just think because you used a gift card, nobody
was going to be able to track your purchase, which
is really interesting. And now I want to know, like
(10:11):
who gave him that gift card, where did he acquire
If a family member gave it to him, did they
feel guilty? Well?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
He also he also could have just bought it at Target.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, I mean, we also got more information that a
second weapon was used on Kelley, which the press conference
they did not comment on. Will get there later. She
also said that he took an online IQ test in
twenty ten and that's why he thought it was smart.
She called him a wannabe. And the real quote of
all quotes from this family was Kelly's younger sister said,
(10:41):
you may have gotten a's in high school in college,
but you're going to be getting D's in prison, Big
D's yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Something, Oh my god, so good. Like and there's this
photo I posted in my Instagram story of the father
just greeting her when she was done the speech and
the look on his face is just like, I'm proud
as shit right now, like this is and I am too,
just like, not even knowing her, I just think that
she's just so awesome and and and really she she
(11:12):
let her anger and her passion for justice overpower her emotions.
She's just such a strong person and it was just
really she gave him what he needed, which was a
pretty girl telling him what a dork and loser. He
was like, that's that's like what he needed that And
(11:33):
I said, this is Joseph Scott Morgan when he did
a post earlier today. I was like, the Gonzalves family,
they understood the assignment, you know what I mean, they
really they delivered it and it was it was amazing.
Another another one that stands out to me is I
mean some of them were just so terrible with a
(11:55):
parent saying that it was their only child and now
they have to grow older without their child. Like that
really got to me. I believe that was Maddie's family,
And yeah, I mean that thinking about that from a
parent's perspective of only having one child, and now you're
(12:15):
getting into your older part of life, and typically, you know,
you get to you get to spend time with your children.
It's their past that especially when a kid's in college.
When they get out of college, it's like they're they're
through that bad teenage year and they want to be
your friend again. And you look forward to being older
and being able to share those memories with them. Maybe
(12:36):
they get married or have children or just whatever. And
now these parents have to go on without having their
only child, and what a different life than what they expected.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So then moving into the state argument, after the victim
impact statements, they had brought up restitution but asked for
some time to figure out what that's going to be.
And then the prosecutor also icknowledge the fact that not
everybody agreed with the decision they made to offer him
a plead deal. And then it seemed like the prosecutor
was crying. I understand, like as an extremely emotional person myself,
(13:12):
I understand I was tearing up the whole time. Honestly,
if you weren't staring at me, and I knew you
judge me to let myself cry a little bit because
it was really horrible. But I think as a seasoned
prosecutor and an attorney like you gotta like control yourself
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I don't know. I don't think everybody's going to agree
with me on that, but I think to his like,
you know, I always want to try to do two
sides of the story. And to his defense, he's he's
a prosecutor in Idaho, right, and they they didn't have
It's not like he's in Philadelphia or New York City
(13:51):
where he's dealing with like multiple scumbags like this every
not on this level, but just scumbags all the time. Right.
It's like this case got the big, one of the
biggest cases of really all time, got dropped in his lap,
and he's not He wasn't going to win anyway. And
(14:11):
they know so many more details about the case than
we do. They saw their dead bodies, I mean, and
and if it was gruesome, and and you're not used
to seeing that, especially if you're not in an area
where you see a lot of crime and a lot
of murders and stuff like it. Clearly the case traumatized
him as well, and he did, even if I mean,
(14:34):
he did make a good point, was like, no matter
what Brian Coberger says, that's not going to change anything
for the families, and he's he's just right, like it's
just not. So he's in a tough spot where I mean,
ultimately most people would have said, I think he should
get the death penalty and that's it, but he wanted
(14:55):
to make sure at least he got the next best thing,
which he did. But he did feel some kind of
guilt about that because of just the way that he
was bringing up multiple times that some families weren't happy
with the outcome.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, totally all right, So then we move on to
the judge who it's his turn to sentence him. So
I like that he used the phrase killers incompetence because,
as we know, pointing out his flaws was really seeming
that's when his nostrils seemed to be flaring when people
were pointing out the mistakes he made. He also used
this term slithered through the sliding glass door, and that
(15:30):
just gave me absolute chills, like so disgusting to think
about this.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Creeper because he's a snake that's why.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So they were also saying illegally cannot make him speak,
and the judge was saying, basically, he didn't think it
was worth I guess pushing it, making him speak as
part of a plea deal. I know that BTK had
to do something like that. But they kept bringing up
the point that like, why would we think he's telling
the truth, and why even make the families continue to
(15:57):
suffer and let him like basically let him stay in
the spotlight and have him have his say.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I mean, and that's true, but now you're giving
him I mean, he probably has so many people knocking
down his door right now for an interview, and that
is that uplifts him. And maybe if there was I mean,
people would still want to interview him for sure, no
(16:24):
matter what. But now that there's so much mystery behind it,
we don't know why, especially after this press conference they
just had that they didn't tell us really anything more
than we've already known. It's like, there's so much mystery
around this case. Why did he did it? Why did
he do it? That's the number one thing. Do you
have any ideas? Did you have any links to see,
(16:46):
like figure out why he did it possibly there's so
many questions that are unanswered, and if we knew all that,
people might not be as interested to talk to him
because we already know the answer, And because we don't,
it just makes people this case is even more intriguing
because of it.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, so I thought it was interesting because the judge
also pointed out just because he pleaded guilty, he definitely
has not in the entire process shown any remorse at all.
So he decided he was going to quote forever remove
him from society. So his official sentencing on the count
one of burglary was ten years fixed with fifty thousand
dollars restitution, and then count two, three, four, and five,
(17:27):
which were the deaths of Madison, Kaylee, Zanna and Ethan
fixed life with no parole, fifty thousand dollars restitution per murder,
and a civil penalty of five thousand dollars per victim's family.
So they're going to run negatively.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
We know that the de Menandez brothers had life in
prison without the possibility of parole sentences as well, and
now they are looking at possibly getting out. So it's
a false sense of security to say that this guy's
in jail for the rest of his life.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, because we had heard Matt Murphy talking about it
and he was saying, they can't waive appellet rights. And
you know, even though the appeal would violate the plea agreement,
laws change over time, and exactly the example you just
use with the Menendez brothers, it's like, we see how
that's going now, they might very well come out of jail,
and they had the same exact sentence. So I do
(18:22):
agree in some capacity. I mean, it was a good charge,
but I also want to like use this opportunity to
transition into the press conference after and how I'm happy
this didn't go to trial because it looks like their
case wasn't very strong.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
It's actually alarming a lot of the things. There's just
a lot of things obviously that have been buzzing online
because of the gag order, and we just don't have
that much information, so they start asking questions. First, the
entire press conference, in my opinion, was terrible because they
didn't have microphones for the reporters, so you could barely
(18:58):
even hear what the questions were. And some of the
questions that they were asking were really really good, one
of them being hey, if Brian Coberger didn't leave the
nice sheath at the scene, would you have caught him?
And they say, oh, we believe we would have threw
the car, and I'm like, no, you wouldn't of. You
absolutely wouldn't of, and you would have had no connection
(19:19):
to him. So luckily he was a terrible criminal and
dropped the sheath of the weapon. Otherwise we might very
well if not only have not caught him, but that
would have empowered him to do it again to somebody else.
So what we got.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
From this press conference basically was very minimal information. But
the investigator said that they know that the house was
chosen for a reason that they're not sure of, but
not a specific target. They don't know, not that he
didn't have a specific victim in mind, they just don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I mean, they even admitted.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That he used software to wipe his devices, which they said,
we're pretty effective. So my mind, he could have been
stalking the victims and just did a really good job
of covering it up. Other information we have was it
was revealed there was a second weapon used against Kaylee.
The investigator said that was up to the disclosure of
the family. I don't know what that means, let's not
(20:15):
forget they still haven't weird.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
That was very weird.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It was weird, and I guess, as if we're recording this,
there are still a lot of documents under seal. So
they did say at the beginning of the press conference,
like we can't speak to everything, but the things they
were speaking to seemed like answers they had no matter
if the document was sealed or not. Cause they asked
about Brian Cooper's youth and they said, we can't speak
(20:40):
to that yet. They didn't say that about the target
or anything, or about the second weapon. I mean with
this second weapon, they specifically said the family needs to
tell you that information, which why I don't understand. They
also still haven't found the k bar knife. They were
getting into all this like how they tested soil and
thought there was a shovel and everything, and they still
haven't found it. If now that he's in jail, if
(21:01):
he's just gonna come out and say where he dumped it.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
It just doesn't I thought that there was going to
be more of a revelation and it's it's it's actually
alarming to me because they said there's no connection on
social media with him stalking or anything like that, even
though that rumor was going around for a while and
if you noticed, Kaylee Gonzalvee's sister said he was stalking her.
(21:29):
So she's saying he was stalking, but they're saying there
was no evidence or does that just mean with the car,
like they do know that he was stalking the house itself.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I was just gonna say that. I mean, they
said they had information that he targeted that property, so like, yeah,
in a sense, he's stalking whoever's living in that house,
maybe not knowing who lives there in particular, but at
the Saint just.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Because it was they said it was possibly just because
it was an easy target.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I just refused to believe that. He just was like, Oh,
I'm going to go to any house with people in
it and kill I don't know, all right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
What about what about the pop a Roach situation? Do
you know about that?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
With the Instagram account?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I don't know if it was Instagram or if
it was Reddit or whatever it was, but there was
some kind of social media account with a person that
was giving details that hadn't yet come out about the case,
and it just was eerily similar to Brian Coburger. And
that was literally the first question one of the reporters asked,
(22:35):
was was that Brian Coburger? And they said no.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Well, they said they didn't have any evidence to suggest
it was. I'm not trying to go down a conspiracy
theory like Cole, but if they're saying he effectively wiped
a lot of software off of his devices, then like,
how are we answering this definitively?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I don't know, but I've been saying from the beginning
since day one with this guy, that there's going to
be some crazy kind of twist, and I just don't
think it's over yet. I think that he's got He
just he just basically had the entire prosecution team say
they really didn't have anything on him. A lot of
it is circumstantial evidence, right, I mean they have they
(23:16):
have the DNA and all that stuff, but they don't
have I don't know that they'd be able to get
to death penalty just because there's so many people that
don't think he that he did it or he did
it alone, Like, but.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
What's the circumstantial evidence beyond him driving by the house
a bunch of times. If they're saying there was nothing
on it.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, all they have
is the DNA, which we again we say thank god
that they left that there, right, But that just because
of all these different things that they have. I just
think that you know, we could talk about like oj
case and Kaylee Anthony's case and all of the even
the Diddy one, Like you think when you hear all
(23:56):
of the evidence, that this is just like a major
odull that he totally guilty, and then all of a sudden,
all you have to do is have one door. That's
just kind of like, I don't know, that's not like
that's a lot. And at this point, he's been given
life in prison, So like what would stop him from
doing an appeal? It might get rid of the plea deal,
(24:17):
but like what would be the chances that they could
retry him again for death penalty and it would actually
be successful, Like he has nothing to lose at this point.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I mean, I don't think this is the last we're
hearing of this case. I wouldn't be surprised if he
filed for appeal. And you know, we're gonna so they
said in the press conference that they're gonna start releasing
records as early as this afternoon, but it could take
up to a couple of months to get everything from
because it wasn't just the Moscow Police department. You have
state police, You have the FBI involved, you have Pennsylvania
(24:49):
Police involved, so like all of those.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Are different medical examiner too. So yeah, but it looks
like the first thing that we're going to have access
to is the police reports, which I mean, we look
at police reports all the time in the grosser room
for all of our cases, and they're pretty extensive, sometimes
very extensive about it will tell us the conditions of
the body, exactly what happened when police arrived, what kind
of scene they walked into. So we'll keep you guys
(25:16):
updated as soon as we get any information that we
could share with you about it. It's just it was
just a really heavy day and I you know, when
when the sister had said what other weapon did you use?
And they did mention that her face was really broken,
Is it possible that he was using some kind of
(25:38):
a blunt thing because obviously.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Like vacuum had been mentioned, well.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Because somebody thought he brought a vacuum with them.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I don't know why the vacuum kept coming up, But
it was coming up in conversation about the blunt objects,
so like did.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
He there was It was because one of the roommates,
the surviving roommates, thought they saw him holding something and
they suspected that it was a vacuum based on her description,
and I believe when they went to his house to
search it, they found a similar small vacuum and they
decided that that it wasn't involved with the case. So
(26:13):
that's where the whole vacuum thing came up. But let's say,
for example, he went in the room and didn't realize
that two girls were sleeping in the room together and
like picked up a piggybank and like smashed one of
them in the head with it to just get them
to chill out and stop screaming or whatever. That would
still be there at the scene and they would be
able to say, Okay, this is what caused this injury
(26:35):
on her face if her face was broken. If you recall,
there is a picture floating around where he has like
the thumbs up in the picture that he apparently took
a selfie like a psychopath right after he did the murders,
his hands don't appear that he was like beating somebody
down in a fight. That's all I'm saying. Like he
(26:56):
doesn't he doesn't really have evidence of that, at least
from the couple of photographs we've seen of him after
the murder. So he's holding a thumbs up, right like
he if he's right dominant and holding up his right
hand and doing a thumbs up, you would see his
knuckles in the photograph and they would be bruised and
bloody if he used his hands to paunch her in
(27:18):
the face. So maybe that's why they're saying it was
a weapon, Like maybe he was wearing brass knuckles or
something else that caused that injury to her face. So
which if her bones are broken and stuff, that would
be a result of blunt force injury as opposed to
sharp force injury from the knife.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, all right, Well, we're gonna keep following this because
obviously the records are coming out and it's it's gonna
take us a while to write it up because I
don't want to rush it and then be missing major
pieces of information too. But we did want to talk
about the new information we learned today. Also, I think
it's interesting to point out that he might end up
in the same prison as Chad Dabell, we know, former
winner husband of Lori Valodabell. So I think that's always
(28:02):
super interesting when two really high profile people end up
in the same jail, especially in a random ass place,
Like I don't, so do you think that.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I feel like, since he's so high profile, they're gonna
keep him. I don't. I don't know what they do,
because didn't Jeffrey Dahmer got killed in prison, right, yeah,
But so I don't think I mean he should have
been I don't, especially because he was of his crimes
that that I always and I don't know because I've
(28:33):
never worked in a prison, but you always see your
pedophiles and stuff have a time.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Typically they go after pedophiles, which Jeffrey Dahmer was assaulting
and murdering some underage guys. But I don't know in
this case. It's like this case is so high profile.
People are parents, They're gonna understand the feeling of losing
a kid as well, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
So yeah, and they were they were like young, innocent,
pretty people, you know what I mean. Like it's just
I feel like he would definitely and he's so weird,
you know what I mean? Like nothing, There's nothing like
badass about this guy at all. He's just such a creep.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
No, he really is. All right. Well, thank you guys
so much. We're gonna try to keep up on the
information as much as possible. We will see you for
tomorrow's regular episode and then on our new YouTube live
installment for Grocery members only on Friday.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah. Thanks guys for letting me rant about this. I
feel like I'll be able to relax now getting this
off my chest. Oh, thank you, Thank you for listening
to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my training is
as a pathologist assistant. I have a master's level education
(29:51):
and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I am not
a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone
dead or alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor.
This show, my website, and social media accounts are designed
to educate and inform people based on my experience working
(30:11):
in pathology, so they can make healthier decisions regarding their
life and well being. Always remember that science is changing
every day, and the opinions expressed in this episode are
based on my knowledge of those subjects at the time
of publication. If you are having a medical problem, have
a medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact
(30:34):
your physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room,
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Thanks
Hi, everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death. We have a
breaking news episode for you guys right now. We just
sat here all afternoon watching the Brian Coburger plea deal
and his sentencing and god, so much stuff happened over
the course of the past couple of hours, so we
(00:25):
have a lot of opinions that we're going to talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah. Sorry to bombard you guys with breaking news episodes
this month, but it has been absolutely outrageous in the
true crime world between Karen Reid, Diddy and now this.
And you know, we've been following this case so closely
since it happened a couple of years ago, so this
kind of takes priority over everything else right now.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, I mean, we did learn some new stuff from this. First,
I want to say that let's talk about Brian's just
disposition first and just him again. I've said just a
million times that his eyes are crazy. I don't know
if you just saw my rant on my Instagram stories
today just going through all of this stuff, but his
(01:10):
eyes look insane and at some points he was doing
these really long blinks, which was making me think that
he was sedated in some way, like on his anax
or something, because he almost looked like it was he
was out of it and having a hard time keeping
his eyes open, or he was just incredibly bored. But
(01:30):
then from time to time he would look over at
places and his eyes were just bugging out in a
weird way, and he just looked completely dead, like alive
but dead.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I don't know. I have a hard time with it
because in some regard, I want to be like, you
have to be medicated to sit there for hours and
have people tell you what a piece of shit you
are and how you've ruined their life and just have
absolutely no emotional response to it. But at the same time,
he's like a complete mom that didn't care. I mean,
at times it looked like he was kind of smirking
a little bit. You thought you even saw him Rolla's
(02:06):
eyes at one point, which is so ridiculous for this case.
But I feel like even with these other killers we've seen,
I don't know, I just I even see them look
like angry or annoyed or whatever, and he kind of
just kept his crazy straight face this entire time. So
to that point, I guess he did have been medicated.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
He did. But when the families start and we'll go
through their testimonies and their the impact the impact statements.
But when some of them started ripping into him, his
nostrils started flaring out, which I did notice. So another
another really bizarre thing about him, just besides him just
(02:48):
being his weird, lanky self in general, is that he
had this picture with him with a black heart on it,
and it's just so attention seeking and like, oh, I'm
so dark and evil and like, I don't know, it's
just it's just he's just such as he just is
so socially like he's just a dork. I don't know
(03:11):
what else to say.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
All right, well, let's go through it from the beginning.
So he shows up to court wearing the typical orange jumpsuit,
belly chains and leg irons, which it was really satisfying
to see him locked up like this, right, I think
we've seen him in the orange before, correct.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But oh yeah, when he got arrested.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, but like I don't know something about the scene
and knowing that he was like facing his fate was
really satisfying to see. And then it goes right into
the impact statement. So first we had the two roommates,
which was crazy. Well, the first impact statement was from
the one roommate, Bethany, but she had a friend read
it for her. I can't even possibly imagine having to
(03:51):
read something like this. I mean, we all know I'm
super emotional, but I was tearing up through like every
single one of them. It was honestly, it was really
really hard to listen to.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So you know, one thing that was unexpected for me
going into this is because I I personally think, and
this is way before the Coburger case, just any case,
I oftentimes think, what is the point of the families
even saying this stuff to him because they're or to
the person that killed their family member, Because ultimately, most
(04:26):
killers are not remorseful, and the certainly in this case,
he does not seem to be remorseful. So you sitting
there and telling what a beautiful person your loved one was,
and how you know just what you took away from
the earth, and how let's destroy your life, it doesn't
like he doesn't care. And it's very hard to grasp
(04:49):
that you could be crying in front of another human
individual that took your child's life away and them not
caring is probably the hardest part of all of this.
But I was kind of. I had an unexpected reaction
myself hearing from their survivors, who in fact seemed to
be living an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
No, totally, because I believe Dylan had said something along
the lines of people call me survivor, but they won't
acknowledge my new reality, which is she's living a life
of constant panic attacks. Both her and Bethany, in their
statements had said after the attacks they had to sleep
with their parents for months after it.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
That's just so, that's so heartbreaking to hear that. No,
I mean think absolutely. You just think about that he
essentially stole any maturity that they've got, in any kind
of independence that they got when they went away to college,
and put them back to being a four year old
(05:54):
who's scared of the dark. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
I mean, Bethany was saying that she was scared he
was going to come back for her, and that she
was at a point where she was making her parents
close all the blinds in their house so nobody could
even see her. Let's not forget they were getting death
threats from strangers online blaming them for not calling the
police right away, which I feel A new piece of
information I learned today was Bethany's saying that she had
(06:19):
a toothache and that's why she had called her father
that morning, and she was kind of out of it,
and she was really regretful of not calling nine one
one right away. And she also has survivor's guilt and
couldn't look at the families forever because not only is
she grieving the loss of all of her friends, but
then you're sitting there like thinking, why did I survive
what happened in my case? How am I supposed to
(06:39):
look these people in the eye that lost their kid.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It's horrible. Yeah, And we don't have the autopsies reports
as of yet, which we will talk about as soon
as we get access to them, if we get access
to them. But one of the things that the little
bit of information that they've given us, which will go
over that to the press conference they just had, which
was a clown show in my opinion. But what we
(07:06):
do know is that they were they had sharp force
injuries and exanguination. They bled out all over the place,
and it doesn't even matter if she witnessed it and
called nine one one at that very moment, they likely
would not have survived those injuries. And we don't know
the extent of how bad the injuries were, but it
(07:27):
seems as if there were not only just stab wounds,
but slash wounds too, the things that just couldn't have
been easily repaired to even stabilize a patient, to bring
them to the hospital in time with that amount of
blood loss. So there's there's it's hard to just look
at this, this poor young woman and say, there's nothing
(07:47):
you could have did if you called at four in
the morning, or if you called it four at night
the next day, like you weren't doing anything, but just
the amount I mean, imagine going through something like that
and not having the entire world supporting you and feeling
bad for you, but actually having people blame you. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And so let's get back to your point of saying, like, initially,
you know, between the victims and Maddy Mugan's family, they
were kind of just going over what an amazing person
she was and how they how he took her from
them and everything like that. But you had said before
the Gonsoalve's family came up, like he doesn't care about
(08:29):
what he did to these good people, right, I literally
said before the Consalves' family went on. I was just like,
they need to get to him and tell him because
he thinks he's some kind of criminal mind genius and all,
and they need to like belittle him and let him
know that he sucked at it, because that's going to
(08:49):
get under his skin, Like that's something that would bother him.
That what is not bothering him is is people crying
and saying, oh, like, my poor sister and I have
to sleep with my mom. None of that bothered him,
But I really saw a change in his facial movements
when the consolvest the dad. I was, I was looking
forward to seeing what he would say because he's been
(09:11):
the most outspoken and.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
The sister was just a surprise, just the rock star
and the whole entire thing. Honestly, like, but why don't
why don't you just give a summary of what that
family said at that point, Yes, for those that didn't
watch it, the.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Dad was awesome and calling him a joke, pointing out
his failures. They said they were going to be laughing
at him at just how sloppy he was, and basically
all of this basically letting them know that even though
he took their daughter away, he was not the winner
in this situation. Then Kelly's sister, who was honestly such
a superstar, came up. I don't know how she talked
(09:50):
with such conviction to him. I would have been crying
and just blubbering about it, but she was so strong willed.
She called him out thinking, I guess he used a
gift card to buy the knife on Amazon, and she said, like, basically,
you just think because you used a gift card, nobody
was going to be able to track your purchase, which
is really interesting. And now I want to know, like
(10:11):
who gave him that gift card, where did he acquire
If a family member gave it to him, did they
feel guilty? Well?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
He also he also could have just bought it at Target.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, I mean, we also got more information that a
second weapon was used on Kelley, which the press conference
they did not comment on. Will get there later. She
also said that he took an online IQ test in
twenty ten and that's why he thought it was smart.
She called him a wannabe. And the real quote of
all quotes from this family was Kelly's younger sister said,
(10:41):
you may have gotten a's in high school in college,
but you're going to be getting D's in prison, Big
D's yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Something, Oh my god, so good. Like and there's this
photo I posted in my Instagram story of the father
just greeting her when she was done the speech and
the look on his face is just like, I'm proud
as shit right now, like this is and I am too,
just like, not even knowing her, I just think that
she's just so awesome and and and really she she
(11:12):
let her anger and her passion for justice overpower her emotions.
She's just such a strong person and it was just
really she gave him what he needed, which was a
pretty girl telling him what a dork and loser. He
was like, that's that's like what he needed that And
(11:33):
I said, this is Joseph Scott Morgan when he did
a post earlier today. I was like, the Gonzalves family,
they understood the assignment, you know what I mean, they
really they delivered it and it was it was amazing.
Another another one that stands out to me is I
mean some of them were just so terrible with a
(11:55):
parent saying that it was their only child and now
they have to grow older without their child. Like that
really got to me. I believe that was Maddie's family,
And yeah, I mean that thinking about that from a
parent's perspective of only having one child, and now you're
(12:15):
getting into your older part of life, and typically, you know,
you get to you get to spend time with your children.
It's their past that especially when a kid's in college.
When they get out of college, it's like they're they're
through that bad teenage year and they want to be
your friend again. And you look forward to being older
and being able to share those memories with them. Maybe
(12:36):
they get married or have children or just whatever. And
now these parents have to go on without having their
only child, and what a different life than what they expected.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
So then moving into the state argument, after the victim
impact statements, they had brought up restitution but asked for
some time to figure out what that's going to be.
And then the prosecutor also icknowledge the fact that not
everybody agreed with the decision they made to offer him
a plead deal. And then it seemed like the prosecutor
was crying. I understand, like as an extremely emotional person myself,
(13:12):
I understand I was tearing up the whole time. Honestly,
if you weren't staring at me, and I knew you
judge me to let myself cry a little bit because
it was really horrible. But I think as a seasoned
prosecutor and an attorney like you gotta like control yourself
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I don't know. I don't think everybody's going to agree
with me on that, but I think to his like,
you know, I always want to try to do two
sides of the story. And to his defense, he's he's
a prosecutor in Idaho, right, and they they didn't have
It's not like he's in Philadelphia or New York City
(13:51):
where he's dealing with like multiple scumbags like this every
not on this level, but just scumbags all the time. Right.
It's like this case got the big, one of the
biggest cases of really all time, got dropped in his lap,
and he's not He wasn't going to win anyway. And
(14:11):
they know so many more details about the case than
we do. They saw their dead bodies, I mean, and
and if it was gruesome, and and you're not used
to seeing that, especially if you're not in an area
where you see a lot of crime and a lot
of murders and stuff like it. Clearly the case traumatized
him as well, and he did, even if I mean,
(14:34):
he did make a good point, was like, no matter
what Brian Coberger says, that's not going to change anything
for the families, and he's he's just right, like it's
just not. So he's in a tough spot where I mean,
ultimately most people would have said, I think he should
get the death penalty and that's it, but he wanted
(14:55):
to make sure at least he got the next best thing,
which he did. But he did feel some kind of
guilt about that because of just the way that he
was bringing up multiple times that some families weren't happy
with the outcome.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, totally all right, So then we move on to
the judge who it's his turn to sentence him. So
I like that he used the phrase killers incompetence because,
as we know, pointing out his flaws was really seeming
that's when his nostrils seemed to be flaring when people
were pointing out the mistakes he made. He also used
this term slithered through the sliding glass door, and that
(15:30):
just gave me absolute chills, like so disgusting to think
about this.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Creeper because he's a snake that's why.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So they were also saying illegally cannot make him speak,
and the judge was saying, basically, he didn't think it
was worth I guess pushing it, making him speak as
part of a plea deal. I know that BTK had
to do something like that. But they kept bringing up
the point that like, why would we think he's telling
the truth, and why even make the families continue to
(15:57):
suffer and let him like basically let him stay in
the spotlight and have him have his say.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, I mean, and that's true, but now you're giving
him I mean, he probably has so many people knocking
down his door right now for an interview, and that
is that uplifts him. And maybe if there was I mean,
people would still want to interview him for sure, no
(16:24):
matter what. But now that there's so much mystery behind it,
we don't know why, especially after this press conference they
just had that they didn't tell us really anything more
than we've already known. It's like, there's so much mystery
around this case. Why did he did it? Why did
he do it? That's the number one thing. Do you
have any ideas? Did you have any links to see,
(16:46):
like figure out why he did it possibly there's so
many questions that are unanswered, and if we knew all that,
people might not be as interested to talk to him
because we already know the answer, And because we don't,
it just makes people this case is even more intriguing
because of it.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, so I thought it was interesting because the judge
also pointed out just because he pleaded guilty, he definitely
has not in the entire process shown any remorse at all.
So he decided he was going to quote forever remove
him from society. So his official sentencing on the count
one of burglary was ten years fixed with fifty thousand
dollars restitution, and then count two, three, four, and five,
(17:27):
which were the deaths of Madison, Kaylee, Zanna and Ethan
fixed life with no parole, fifty thousand dollars restitution per murder,
and a civil penalty of five thousand dollars per victim's family.
So they're going to run negatively.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
We know that the de Menandez brothers had life in
prison without the possibility of parole sentences as well, and
now they are looking at possibly getting out. So it's
a false sense of security to say that this guy's
in jail for the rest of his life.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, because we had heard Matt Murphy talking about it
and he was saying, they can't waive appellet rights. And
you know, even though the appeal would violate the plea agreement,
laws change over time, and exactly the example you just
use with the Menendez brothers, it's like, we see how
that's going now, they might very well come out of jail,
and they had the same exact sentence. So I do
(18:22):
agree in some capacity. I mean, it was a good charge,
but I also want to like use this opportunity to
transition into the press conference after and how I'm happy
this didn't go to trial because it looks like their
case wasn't very strong.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
It's actually alarming a lot of the things. There's just
a lot of things obviously that have been buzzing online
because of the gag order, and we just don't have
that much information, so they start asking questions. First, the
entire press conference, in my opinion, was terrible because they
didn't have microphones for the reporters, so you could barely
(18:58):
even hear what the questions were. And some of the
questions that they were asking were really really good, one
of them being hey, if Brian Coberger didn't leave the
nice sheath at the scene, would you have caught him?
And they say, oh, we believe we would have threw
the car, and I'm like, no, you wouldn't of. You
absolutely wouldn't of, and you would have had no connection
(19:19):
to him. So luckily he was a terrible criminal and
dropped the sheath of the weapon. Otherwise we might very
well if not only have not caught him, but that
would have empowered him to do it again to somebody else.
So what we got.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
From this press conference basically was very minimal information. But
the investigator said that they know that the house was
chosen for a reason that they're not sure of, but
not a specific target. They don't know, not that he
didn't have a specific victim in mind, they just don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I mean, they even admitted.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That he used software to wipe his devices, which they said,
we're pretty effective. So my mind, he could have been
stalking the victims and just did a really good job
of covering it up. Other information we have was it
was revealed there was a second weapon used against Kaylee.
The investigator said that was up to the disclosure of
the family. I don't know what that means, let's not
(20:15):
forget they still haven't weird.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
That was very weird.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It was weird, and I guess, as if we're recording this,
there are still a lot of documents under seal. So
they did say at the beginning of the press conference,
like we can't speak to everything, but the things they
were speaking to seemed like answers they had no matter
if the document was sealed or not. Cause they asked
about Brian Cooper's youth and they said, we can't speak
(20:40):
to that yet. They didn't say that about the target
or anything, or about the second weapon. I mean with
this second weapon, they specifically said the family needs to
tell you that information, which why I don't understand. They
also still haven't found the k bar knife. They were
getting into all this like how they tested soil and
thought there was a shovel and everything, and they still
haven't found it. If now that he's in jail, if
(21:01):
he's just gonna come out and say where he dumped it.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
It just doesn't I thought that there was going to
be more of a revelation and it's it's it's actually
alarming to me because they said there's no connection on
social media with him stalking or anything like that, even
though that rumor was going around for a while and
if you noticed, Kaylee Gonzalvee's sister said he was stalking her.
(21:29):
So she's saying he was stalking, but they're saying there
was no evidence or does that just mean with the car,
like they do know that he was stalking the house itself.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, I was just gonna say that. I mean, they
said they had information that he targeted that property, so like, yeah,
in a sense, he's stalking whoever's living in that house,
maybe not knowing who lives there in particular, but at
the Saint just.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Because it was they said it was possibly just because
it was an easy target.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I just refused to believe that. He just was like, Oh,
I'm going to go to any house with people in
it and kill I don't know, all right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
What about what about the pop a Roach situation? Do
you know about that?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
With the Instagram account?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I don't know if it was Instagram or if
it was Reddit or whatever it was, but there was
some kind of social media account with a person that
was giving details that hadn't yet come out about the case,
and it just was eerily similar to Brian Coburger. And
that was literally the first question one of the reporters asked,
(22:35):
was was that Brian Coburger? And they said no.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Well, they said they didn't have any evidence to suggest
it was. I'm not trying to go down a conspiracy
theory like Cole, but if they're saying he effectively wiped
a lot of software off of his devices, then like,
how are we answering this definitively?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I don't know, but I've been saying from the beginning
since day one with this guy, that there's going to
be some crazy kind of twist, and I just don't
think it's over yet. I think that he's got He
just he just basically had the entire prosecution team say
they really didn't have anything on him. A lot of
it is circumstantial evidence, right, I mean they have they
(23:16):
have the DNA and all that stuff, but they don't
have I don't know that they'd be able to get
to death penalty just because there's so many people that
don't think he that he did it or he did
it alone, Like, but.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
What's the circumstantial evidence beyond him driving by the house
a bunch of times. If they're saying there was nothing
on it.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, all they have
is the DNA, which we again we say thank god
that they left that there, right, But that just because
of all these different things that they have. I just
think that you know, we could talk about like oj
case and Kaylee Anthony's case and all of the even
the Diddy one, Like you think when you hear all
(23:56):
of the evidence, that this is just like a major
odull that he totally guilty, and then all of a sudden,
all you have to do is have one door. That's
just kind of like, I don't know, that's not like
that's a lot. And at this point, he's been given
life in prison, So like what would stop him from
doing an appeal? It might get rid of the plea deal,
(24:17):
but like what would be the chances that they could
retry him again for death penalty and it would actually
be successful, Like he has nothing to lose at this point.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I mean, I don't think this is the last we're
hearing of this case. I wouldn't be surprised if he
filed for appeal. And you know, we're gonna so they
said in the press conference that they're gonna start releasing
records as early as this afternoon, but it could take
up to a couple of months to get everything from
because it wasn't just the Moscow Police department. You have
state police, You have the FBI involved, you have Pennsylvania
(24:49):
Police involved, so like all of those.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Are different medical examiner too. So yeah, but it looks
like the first thing that we're going to have access
to is the police reports, which I mean, we look
at police reports all the time in the grosser room
for all of our cases, and they're pretty extensive, sometimes
very extensive about it will tell us the conditions of
the body, exactly what happened when police arrived, what kind
of scene they walked into. So we'll keep you guys
(25:16):
updated as soon as we get any information that we
could share with you about it. It's just it was
just a really heavy day and I you know, when
when the sister had said what other weapon did you use?
And they did mention that her face was really broken,
Is it possible that he was using some kind of
(25:38):
a blunt thing because obviously.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Like vacuum had been mentioned, well.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Because somebody thought he brought a vacuum with them.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I don't know why the vacuum kept coming up, But
it was coming up in conversation about the blunt objects,
so like did.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
He there was It was because one of the roommates,
the surviving roommates, thought they saw him holding something and
they suspected that it was a vacuum based on her description,
and I believe when they went to his house to
search it, they found a similar small vacuum and they
decided that that it wasn't involved with the case. So
(26:13):
that's where the whole vacuum thing came up. But let's say,
for example, he went in the room and didn't realize
that two girls were sleeping in the room together and
like picked up a piggybank and like smashed one of
them in the head with it to just get them
to chill out and stop screaming or whatever. That would
still be there at the scene and they would be
able to say, Okay, this is what caused this injury
(26:35):
on her face if her face was broken. If you recall,
there is a picture floating around where he has like
the thumbs up in the picture that he apparently took
a selfie like a psychopath right after he did the murders,
his hands don't appear that he was like beating somebody
down in a fight. That's all I'm saying. Like he
(26:56):
doesn't he doesn't really have evidence of that, at least
from the couple of photographs we've seen of him after
the murder. So he's holding a thumbs up, right like
he if he's right dominant and holding up his right
hand and doing a thumbs up, you would see his
knuckles in the photograph and they would be bruised and
bloody if he used his hands to paunch her in
(27:18):
the face. So maybe that's why they're saying it was
a weapon, Like maybe he was wearing brass knuckles or
something else that caused that injury to her face. So
which if her bones are broken and stuff, that would
be a result of blunt force injury as opposed to
sharp force injury from the knife.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Yeah, all right, Well, we're gonna keep following this because
obviously the records are coming out and it's it's gonna
take us a while to write it up because I
don't want to rush it and then be missing major
pieces of information too. But we did want to talk
about the new information we learned today. Also, I think
it's interesting to point out that he might end up
in the same prison as Chad Dabell, we know, former
winner husband of Lori Valodabell. So I think that's always
(28:02):
super interesting when two really high profile people end up
in the same jail, especially in a random ass place,
Like I don't, so do you think that.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I feel like, since he's so high profile, they're gonna
keep him. I don't. I don't know what they do,
because didn't Jeffrey Dahmer got killed in prison, right, yeah,
But so I don't think I mean he should have
been I don't, especially because he was of his crimes
that that I always and I don't know because I've
(28:33):
never worked in a prison, but you always see your
pedophiles and stuff have a time.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Typically they go after pedophiles, which Jeffrey Dahmer was assaulting
and murdering some underage guys. But I don't know in
this case. It's like this case is so high profile.
People are parents, They're gonna understand the feeling of losing
a kid as well, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
So yeah, and they were they were like young, innocent,
pretty people, you know what I mean. Like it's just
I feel like he would definitely and he's so weird,
you know what I mean? Like nothing, There's nothing like
badass about this guy at all. He's just such a creep.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
No, he really is. All right. Well, thank you guys
so much. We're gonna try to keep up on the
information as much as possible. We will see you for
tomorrow's regular episode and then on our new YouTube live
installment for Grocery members only on Friday.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Yeah. Thanks guys for letting me rant about this. I
feel like I'll be able to relax now getting this
off my chest. Oh, thank you, Thank you for listening
to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my training is
as a pathologist assistant. I have a master's level education
(29:51):
and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I am not
a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone
dead or alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor.
This show, my website, and social media accounts are designed
to educate and inform people based on my experience working
(30:11):
in pathology, so they can make healthier decisions regarding their
life and well being. Always remember that science is changing
every day, and the opinions expressed in this episode are
based on my knowledge of those subjects at the time
of publication. If you are having a medical problem, have
a medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact
(30:34):
your physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room,
or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows
Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.
Thanks
Hosts And Creators
Nicole Angemi
Maria Q. Kane
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