On today’s MKD, we kick off the week discussing Bryan Kohberger's plea deal, a child who fell overboard on a Disney Cruise, a woman stuck in a clothing donation box, fifth graders who plotted to kill their classmate, and a body infested with maggots at a funeral home.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Death starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Everyone welcome The Mother Knows Death. Well, there has been
a lot of shocking news story since our last episode,
so we are going to get into some of those today.
Of course, we're on Diddy Verdict Watch, so whenever that
comes out, we'll be talking about it, but not on
today's episode because really nothing is happening yet. We're going
to get into the plea deal with Brian Coburger that
(00:44):
he is apparently taking this week on his homicide conviction,
and we also have a couple freak accidents involving a
child that went overboard on a Disney cruise and a
woman who got stuck in a clothing donation box. And
then we're going to get into one of the most
disturbed stories that we've ever heard about children that plan
on killing their classmate. Yes, that is true, you heard
(01:06):
me correctly. And then we'll finish the episode with a
maggot infested body at a funeral home. So let's get
started with this shocking Brian Coburger news that came kind
of out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I was in the middle of cooking dinner last night
and I just opened Instagram really quick while I was
waiting for something to finish off, and then I see
Cheryl made this post and was like, I've confirmed with
a family member that Coburger has made a plea deal.
And I was like, there's just no way, Like, there's
just absolutely no ways too, And I just start seeing
it filling and filling and filling in on my social
(01:41):
media and then I turn on the news and it's
on there. I cannot believe he has made a plea deal.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You know what I'm thinking happened. And obviously, like I
have no idea what happens in the system as far
as trying cases like this and stuff, but I think
that he's just been throwing all this stuff out and
trying to see if it would stick. One of them
being like, oh, I'm autistic, all of it. I got
to diagnose with autism this year, Like you can't put
(02:07):
me to the death penalty and all this stuff, and
the judge kept on throwing away all of this stuff,
and the most recent one that it seems got thrown
out was that he was trying to say that there
were other people involved with this murder, and the judge
was like, yeah, no, we're not hearing any of that
stuff because that's whatever reason they said, they're just not
(02:28):
hearing it. And that could have been like his final
thing that he was trying to throw out and see
if he could get a bite on it, and since
there was no way to get out of it, this
is what he has to do in order to save
his own life.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm not surprised he took the plea deal. I'm surprised
they offered it to him because in my mind, they
had a pretty solid case, So why wouldn't you try
to go forward with it. Was it tax reasons, like
they didn't want to spend the money on it. Was
it to spare the family of not having to hear
the horrific details. Are we ever going to get those
ds with him making this deal.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I'm sure, But obviously there's going to be a point
where the gag order is lifted. So the family especially
has a lot of the details. I don't know if
they had access to the autopsy report. I'm sure they are,
but everybody has been had to keep quiet with all
of the details of this case, so a lot of
it is public information. I'm sure that a lot of
(03:24):
it is going to get released and where there's going
to be thousands of episodes talking about it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You know, On one hand, I look.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
At it like people who usually get to death penalty,
most of them don't even get put to death.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
There's all of these appeals.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
It costs so much money, and that could really drag
on for the family as well. Whereas I feel like,
right now they're not happy with this. But if it's
if if he pleads tomorrow, which he's supposed to plead guilty,
which he has to at this point, right because even
though he said he was going to technical he doesn't
(04:00):
have to, but like, why would he do that?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I think also tomorrow when they go to the
hearing that the judge has to approve it, So I
guess there is a possibility that the judge cannot approve
it correct and then what happens then? Does it still
go forward?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Well, I'm sure that that's all ironed out already before
they released this, because now he has basically told the
world that he's guilty. So if he pulls out of
it or gets pulled out of it for any reason,
then how are they going to find a jury when
now they've told the whole world that he is guilty
of doing this. It's just it, like we all know
(04:36):
he's guilty, like I've said this from day one, just
based on his eyes, like he's one hundred percent guilty.
But I do I feel bad for the family. But
at the same time, like I know that they were saying,
we already know the gruesome details. They possibly have already
read the autopsy reports. I'm telling you right now, based
upon the little that I know about it, that you
(04:57):
never want to hear about your family men, especially your
child being butchered alive, which is what happened in these cases.
But there's a big difference between reading about the injuries
and then seeing what it looks like in photographs. Obviously,
in a lot of court cases, the family leaves the
room when they show the autopsy pictures. I think that
(05:20):
just showing the autopsy pictures alone in court to all
of the jurors would make him guilty if there was
enough evidence to back that he was the one that
did it. Because I'm telling you that it is so gruesome.
If you remember from the crime scene photos that there
was blood dripping outside of the house, which means to
me that there was such a significant amount of blood.
(05:43):
I mean, think about all of the layers of a
house for it to leak through and be visible like that. No,
it's just you have you have dry wall, insulation, the
outer wall, the siding, all.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's just it was a gruesome seat and the family
for sure does not need to see any of that
pictures getting leaked perhaps, I mean, like right now, at
least if he goes tomorrow and says I'm guilty and
promises that there's no appeals and he's in jail forever,
the family can heal and move on from this instead
(06:16):
of it just getting brought up, Like look at what
Lacy Peterson's mom is going through with. First he was
given the death penalty, then they took it away, then
he was supposed to be life in prison, and now
they're trying to fight that her daughter died such a
long time ago, and she's still she's an old woman
and still dealing with this every single day instead of
(06:37):
trying to move on with what life she's got left.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
No, I understand that. I guess there was also confusion
with how it was brought up to the family. So
when I was watching News Nation last night, one of
the reporters was saying that the family was consulted really
shortly beforehand about it and everybody was against it, but
it wasn't necessarily a consultation, more of a heads up
that it was already going down. I think it first
(07:03):
came up that it was a possibility on Friday, and
then by Sunday night they got word that it was happening,
so they barely had time to process it. So I mean,
by the time this episode airs, this news hasn't even
been out for twenty four hours. So I'm sure that
there's a lot more that's going to go down with this,
and maybe we'll find out the reason. Maybe the prosecution
(07:25):
wasn't one hundred percent certain that they were going to
be able to nail it. I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
But ultimately, would you want to take the risk of
him getting off no, I because that would be worse
for the family.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, I think it's a lot for them to process
because in everybody's mind it was such a solid case.
But maybe they just came across some discovery that could
have put reasonable doubt in the jurors minds and they
were like, you know what, let's do this because at
least we'll get him. I don't really know what went
on behind the scenes right now. Well, what's also really interesting,
and we've talked about this on this show, is that
(08:05):
there's this whole entire population that believes that he's innocent,
including someone who listens to our show and left the
comment on one of our YouTube videos saying we were assholes
for saying that this guy is guilty. Right, So that
might also worry prosecutors as well, because every normal person
that's looking at this case is just like, come on, like,
(08:26):
how many things do you have to say that are
blatantly obvious? I personally didn't need any of those details
because I told you he has creepy eyes. But besides that,
there's still a population of people, a big population of
people online that just don't believe it, and that has
to scare prosecutors for sure. Well, of course, I mean,
(08:47):
any single thing on the Internet, there's gonna be one
side or the other. There's nothing in the world that
all people are gonna agree on. There's even people like
we would think that with something horrific like pedophilia or rape,
but there are people that are into that stuff. So
it's unfortunate but this is the world we live in today.
This is not gonna sound right the way I'm saying it,
But I was looking forward to watching the trial in
(09:10):
the sense of seeing how they catch a person seeing
all the DNA, seeing all the evidence that led them
to him, what they found at the crime scene. I
hope we still get that from an investigator perspective, how
that all went down in the documents. I'm sure we
will at some point, because you're saying the gag order
is gonna have to be lifted at some point. Is
that going to be like on Wednesday? Or are we gonna
(09:31):
be scrambling next week to try to write this dis
section for everybody?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
See, this is what pisses me off, though, And this
is why the family's pissed off.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It's Brian Coburger is.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Still in control of their children and still in control
of them. Yes, he's in control of all of it.
And that's why the family feels like, I mean, I
can't imagine with my children like they're mine. They're my children, right,
I can't imagine someone else making decisions in because for them,
(10:05):
not me. And it's a feeling of a loss of
control for the parents. But it's also a feeling of
giving up that control to the person that killed them.
They want all of this to come out and in
hopes that maybe this will prevent this from ever happening again.
You know, so I feel I just feel terrible for
them not to mention the fact that no one even
(10:28):
called them and told them they got an email with
a letter attached. Who knows what the letter attached is
because I was hearing that he wrote a letter to
the families or something like that, So who knows what
that says.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
No freaking way should they send that to them. That
is not right. He's on an email on a Sunday night,
like he should not.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Have any access to talk to them directly. Yeah, and
no matter how, one hundred percent sure of that. But
what I'm saying is that, like it's Sunday night, you're
sitting in your house, you're watching TV. I mean, you
have to move on, so you're maybe you're having dinner,
you're sitting there having ice cream, not that you're like
life is ever the same, and then all of a
sudden you get this email out of the blue that's
just like, oh, this is happening, and it's happening on
(11:07):
July second, and you have to be there. And you
have to remember, like some of these families don't live
around there. They have to they have other kids they
have to deal with, they have to travel, they have
to get places and just and they have to be there.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I mean, this is this is a big deal.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
The families have to be there, and it like not
to even have any respect to give them at least
a week's notice, like to make arrangements. It's just and
not to mention all the other times that they had
to go there for all of this stuff. The whole
thing's kind of been a circus. One messed up thing
that I learned today is that after all this, if
he does plead guilty and everything's settled, his lawyer, who's
(11:44):
a public defender who we're paying for with our tax dollars,
is going to make almost a million dollars off of
this case.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh, I'm sure they're going to write a book. I'm
sure they're going to.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
She's going to write a book. I mean, I don't
know what the plea deal is going to involve. What
he could talk about, because he's he's like the ultimate
he's trying to make himself be like the ultimate crime
scene investigator forensic person, right, and he's going to be
allowed to do this in jail now that he's going
to be able to talk about being not only being
(12:15):
a person that's in a PhD program and has degrees
in criminology, but from the perspective of a person that
committed the crime as well.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And that shit sells and I don't know, yeah, but
he's not. He legally cannot make money off of any.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Care It's not the money. It's not the money, it's
the fame. It's the infamy. It's like he wants to
be the next BTK or he wants to be the
next Ted Bundy, like the guy that everybody talks about,
and he certainly is going to get that over the
course of his life.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I don't necessarily have a problem with his attorney writing
books and doing interviews off of it, because, I mean,
she didn't choose this case. She's a public defender. Everybody
has a right to an attorney. It's not like she
sought him out. I'm sure she was scared out of
her mind having to deal with that crazy eye dude
like every day. Like and then you have to think
people can't see that she's a public defender and that
(13:08):
this case was assigned to her. And I'm sure she's
getting death threats every single day. It's not like she's
gonna go on to live this amazingly baller life. She's
probably gonna live in fear forever. What if he breaks
out or something it goes after.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
He's definitely not breaking out. But you know what's crazy?
Last night when I posted this on my Instagram stories
and just was putting pictures of his crazy eyes, I like,
I get the pictures off the news, and I put
them and they were on my phone and I have
to delete them because he scares the shit out of me. Well,
and imagine her like having to visit him. And I
(13:40):
know oftentimes the defense lawyers know what happened because they'll
say to their client, you need to tell me what happened,
and I'm going to try to get you out of it.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Basically, so he can't. She can't say what he told
her attorney client privilege. So what does that Does that
end after it's all done? No, I don't think so.
I think any thing he told her was in complete confidence,
so she could probably talk about the tactic she was
gonna go forward and like everything that's happened so far
in the process. But I don't think legally she can
(14:10):
say what he told her in private.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I don't really know about that, but all right, so
let's we'll get back.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
To this when we hear more stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Obviously it's it's only what twelve hours later, barely bare barely, right,
so so hopefully we'll get more information about that. But
we just wanted to talk about it because we've been
talking about that case for years here in the Groceryman
on mother nos death. All right, So another big story
(14:38):
that happened this week was you know, you guys know
that we've been talking about this dreaded cruise that we
had to go on with with our family and it
was okay, it wasn't it wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It was just like the whole recap.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, we had the recast episode, but yeah, so then
we so so now we feel like we're experts on
crew ships because we've actually been on one. And to
hear this story about a kid that accidentally went overboard
and the dad jumping in after the kid on a
Disney cruise is outrageous.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Do you find that it's bizarre that all these cruise
stories are pouring in just as we went on. I
feel like we've never had this many so close together.
It was kind of like all the airplane stuff clustered together. Yeah,
it really is topic.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I'm just like, all right, we heard about the poop
cruise last week, and then we hear about this, and
there's been other stories that are coming out too.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It's just.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Ironic, but we love to talk about it, so let's talk.
Let's tell what happened with this Disney cruise.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So over the weekend on a Disney cruise, passengers were
just going about the boat when they heard the emergency
code mister mob, which means man overboard. So it turns
out that a child fell off of deck four and
that her father jumped in right after her. So at
first it wasn't really clear what happened and how she
fell first. I guess I'll get into they were rescued
(16:01):
very quickly, and we'll talk about the statistics with that
and everything in a little bit, But I guess at
first it was really unclear how she fell in. And
then NBC was reporting that some people saw the child
on a railing sitting on it so the dad could
take a photo of her, and then that's how she
went over the edge, which I think everybody could agree
is not a good idea, but.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
It's totally possible, yes, on the cruise ship. And we
have the picture we posted on Instagram of our whole family.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We were in.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Front of a similar thing that we could have sat
a child up on and said take a picture. So
this is just like that a dad being a dad
and not doing a safe practice. But not that anybody
deserves this, but clearly this is not a good idea ever,
especially like do you remember the bar was like really
moist all the time because of the humidity in the air.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It was like wet and slippery. Well, we're writing up
cruise injuries and deaths for the Grosser Room this week
and next week, and when I started writing up the
man overboard section, I was going to put a picture
of Lubert versus you next to the rail wing to
show a child, you know, couldn't just accidentally tip over.
But you're a tall person. How tall are you? Like
(17:13):
five ten? You can just have like five to eight
five nine, Yeah, you could just flip right over. I mean,
I'm a surety. So I don't think I buy possibility
of it, but I could also see it happening. And
I said on last episode, I was extremely critical of
falling off the boats, but now I see how it's
pretty easy, especially well, not in this case, but I
could see in other cases when alcohol is involved in
(17:35):
your drug and you're not paying attention, or a you know,
a kid just trying to take a cool picture and
she just slipped.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, it's just and obviously it's a Disney cruise, so
it's geared towards parents and children, and every parent is
just like got to know what happened and how this happened.
But it doesn't seem at this time that it was
a problem with the boat itself. It's just more you like,
we were talking all about the ship and just how
easily it is for people to get over the other
(18:03):
side of the bars, and you just have to you
can't watch the whole boat at all times, and you
just have to assume that people are not going to
do dumb shit, and people do dumb shit, and this
is a dumb thing. And luckily, like what a story
to tell your family growing up after surviving something like this.
(18:25):
I was showing Gabe the video.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So, my husband is he's on the New Jersey Task
Force and he does swift water training because he goes
to all of these hurricanes and rescues people in water situations.
Not the ocean ever, but similar with like North Carolina
and Ashville and just very fast, rapid rising waters. And
(18:49):
he was just looking at the condition of the water
and the boat, how it was rocking, and he's like,
it is actually amazing that this father was able to
tread this water for twenty minutes with a child. Like
he's just because Gabees just like I obviously would have
jumped in too. I wouldn't even have thought twice about it.
But he's just like, that's not easy to do and
(19:10):
it's amazing that they got to them with only twenty minutes,
but that he was able to do it because it's
hard to do with yourself because you tie her out,
But think about trying to hold a child up as well.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
That doesn't have the strength to do that. No, And
in the post next week, I'm going to talk about
this guy who fell in the Gulf and they he
was treading water for twenty hours and survived. They got
him well I'll get more into that, but surviving man
overboard is not likely in most cases. So there's this
data from two thousand and nine to twenty nineteen from
Cruise Lines International Association where they reported that there was
(19:45):
two hundred and twelve cases of people falling overboard, which
is about nineteen incidents per year. So of those two
hundred and twelve people, only forty eight people survived, which
is not a lot, so there's way less. It's way
less than half, so it's not good. Yeah, they're extremely
lucky that they survived. I mean, the boat stopped immediately.
(20:06):
What they tell you to do if they see you
is that or if you see somebody overboard, is you
need to immediately alert staff. If you see them and
you're near one of the life buoys that's on the boat,
throw it overboard because anything that could help them float
is helpful. And then they're gonnak. The boat's gonna alert
the coast guard. The boat's gonna stop and try to
deploy rescue boats, and then, depending on the situation, they're
(20:28):
gonna look with the coast guard or they can in
this case get the people with their own rescue boat
very quickly, and then they do it until they either
find the person or they determine their lost So it's
kind of nuts, it is.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And and a lot of the witnesses on the boat too,
I mean, when you're in the ocean, it's just such
a it's such an amazing thing to just see how
it just goes on forever and it's just so large,
and it's just it doesn't end right. But the people
were saying that they were so surprised that this dad
and his child looked like like specs in the ocean,
(21:02):
Like you couldn't even tell it was a person. It
was so small just by looking down, just because the
ocean is so large. So kudos to all involved. Did
Disney people really seemed like they were trained and ready
for something like this to happen.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And you don't want to have to go on.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
A cruise ship that like all of the decks have
plexiglass on them because they're scared somebody is going to
do that again. So hopefully, I don't know. I'm sure
there's signs everywhere that say not to go up there,
but like humans are humans, and this is just gonna
forever happen.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
This kind of stuff. We'll also get into a case
where the plexiglass literally didn't matter either, because people just
don't follow the rules. Sometimes it's good to be a rule.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Follower, guys, sometimes you know best.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
All right. So last week in Florida, police got a
call that someone was stuck inside of a clothing donation box.
But when they got there, they found a dead woman inside.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, so this woman was it was a nurse I believe,
or teacher.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Was a nurse or a teacher. A teacher came across
a person that looked like they were stuck in the
donation box.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
But so it was six o'clock. It was like six
o'clock in the morning. She was probably on her way
to do something. And just you know, we all have
these trash bags in our trunk full of clothes to
put in the donation box that usually sit in our
trunk for like six months before we're like, oh, there's one,
let's drop it off. And there's a pretty pink one,
let me stick it in there. So she goes up
to there and sees a person sticking out. I mean,
(22:31):
that's shocking, right, she'd obviously she didn't examine them to
see if anything was going on, but the woman was
clearly dead here they find out that she was homeless.
They think that possibly they don't know exactly what happened,
but they think that it could possibly be a positional asphyxia,
so that's when your body is bent in such a
way that you're not able to have oxygen exchange anymore.
(22:54):
And they think that that happened because she was probably
going in the box trying to find stuff and get
stuff out, like closed. So that's really sad and terrible
that anybody would die in that way.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
God, and I just have to imagine it's so hot
down there too, and if you get stuck in there,
you're just like trapped in that heat.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, I mean, if you're trapped bet in half like
that and you can't expand your chest for respiration, that's terrible.
But also just the lack of oxygen in general within
that box wouldn't be great either, So just the combination
of all of it is terrible. And I guess we'll
maybe we'll hear more if we probably won't hear anything
(23:33):
unless it was like, oh, she was murdered and stuffed
in the box, But just on first examination, they think
that that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
This episode is brought to you by the Grosserom.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Like we said this week and next week's high profile death,
this section are all about injuries on cruise ships and
deaths and all sorts of diseases you could pick up,
including parasitic infections, which is just the worst thing ever
that could happen to people.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
We also have every.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Month in the Grosser Room, we have a monthly giveaway
where we give away yearly memberships merch from our store,
and we give a two hundred dollars gift card to
a member every month too. So if you want to
just join and check it out just for a month
and see if you like it, which you will love it.
You could also enter for a chance to win a
year membership.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, head over to the grossroom dot com now to
sign up.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
All right, So this is another news story that came
out recently about kids who were seriously planning to kill
another child.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So four fifth grade girls aged ten to eleven, which
also surprised me that it was girls allegedly plotted to
kill a classmate by stabbing him in the school bathroom
and staging it to look like a suicide, and they
were going to put a forged suicide note out at reesis.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So the whole entire plan I guess was overheard by
kids who told their parents who called the school, But
it was it was a very intricate plan that included
one child luring the kid into the bathroom, one child
stabbing the kid, one child looking out like it's just
it's absolutely crazy. They they they actually said that they
(25:25):
were planning on using gloves so they didn't leave fingerprints
on the weapon.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Crazy that they're so young and they have these assigned
roles basically like this was that mapped out?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Well, they get they're getting it from somewhere, right, I
mean kids, kids do not come up with this shit
on their own.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I don't know because when they so, they searched them
and figured out the plan, and then when the school
talked to them, they said three of the girls showed remorse,
but one of them thought it was funny and was smiling.
So what I assume that was the mastermind of the plan,
because that's not normal behavior for a young girl.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, and I think it's hard when when girls are
in I mean, I have a child that's in fifth
grade who's a girl. I can't even imagine something like
this going down but you see with different circumstances that
kids bring up an idea and then their other friends
go along with it because kids don't want to go
(26:25):
against what they think, especially with the cool kids saying
or whatever. It's just it's so it's so shocking to me.
But this is something that all parents that are that
are my age or younger, that have children that are
growing up right now have to deal with that that
we didn't have to deal with when we were kids.
(26:47):
And it's because of social media and just the access
to things that they have. They don't they know about
things that they shouldn't know about. When we were kids,
it was like, okay, we would maybe stumble across TV
shows or something and hear about cases or see it
in the newspaper. But it's just different now because of
(27:07):
YouTube and these short videos and these you know, true
crime is a huge thing, and when the kids are
watching YouTube, that stuff is not filtered out to them
and you could say, oh, there's YouTube kids and stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
It's just like.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Listen, no ten to fifteen year old wants to watch
YouTube kids. It's a bunch of cocoa melon videos and shit.
They want to see things that are interesting to them,
and unfortunately, it's like you have YouTube kids, which is
like Barney videos, and then the full world wide web
that with access to everything, there's no in between.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Well, even when we post these videos on our YouTube channel,
one of the questions that's a mandatory prompt before you publish,
is this video for kids? They'll give a shit. Yeah,
but that's what ideos all the time that my kids.
This is what I'm saying. If I click yes, it
is for kids, is there a person manually reviewing it
or does it just go live for children until it's
(28:02):
reported otherwise.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I have several children come to my house and say
that our reels show up in their feed.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, they're not in the kids because I've never marked
it as safe for kids. Exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
This is what I'm saying, though, Like that doesn't even
matter at all. And listen, there's thousands of articles and
stories from parents that'll just be like, Oh, I was
sitting there watching YouTube with my kid and this video
came up, and this video came up, and it's just like,
the only way to prevent it is to not let
your kid go on it. And I don't know if
(28:39):
I don't know if that's actually practical or if it's
a good idea to withhold things like that from them
and not teach them how to navigate it because it
is the world that we live in.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Well, this really reminds me of the slender Man case,
where I think this was the first time we really
saw this horrible impact on children just having free reign
of the inner and going on creepy pasta and seeing
this mythical creature that was saying it was okay to
kill right, And they ended up stabbing that girl and
thankfully she survived. I mean, what if they executed this plan.
(29:13):
I'm kind of bothered that they were. I mean, I
know they're little kids, but they were only charged with
misdemeanors and their suspended pending expulsion. But like, is this
the only trouble they're getting in? Do they have to
go to mandated therapy? This is really concerning behavior for
little kids, It really it is.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And you know what, though, like their brains are not
formed even a little bit. It's just like you can't,
you can't. They're just they're they're literally like repeating something
that they think sounded cool. I just don't think I mean,
I don't know, I'm not a psychologist and stuff, and
I'm sure people like Brian Coberger were screwed up their
(29:53):
whole life, and we're you know, the first sign of
someone camping out as a sociopath doesn't happen when they're
in their twenties or thirties, right, But it has to
start somewhere, And maybe one of the children that were
not remorseful has something going on that might come out
worse later when they're older. But just a lot of
(30:13):
it is just like I'm not one hundred percent sure.
It's the same thing as explaining to my kids about
getting hit by a car. They don't really understand what
happens when you.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Get hit by a car.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
They think it's like a ball and it's going to
bounce off and it'll like hurt, like when you fall
off your bike. They just don't understand that, like your
body's gonna get smeared along the sidewalk and do you
know what I'm saying, Like they just they don't know.
And that's why kids get hurt all the time doing
dumb shit because they just don't really understand the full
ramification of things. And kids just do other stuff all
(30:48):
the time and get in trouble because they just really
don't get it.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, I mean, another point I'm wanted to bring up
was the of course, the question is why were they
planning to kill this boy and they're saying it's because
he cheated in a relationship. Why are so many people
like this is a problem I've noticed lately. It's just
so many people are like talking about little kids like, oh,
they have a boyfriend, they have a girlfriend, Like stop
(31:12):
it their kids.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I understand that, but like that's I mean even when
when I was in school in the eighties, it was
like it started in like third grade, like oh, he
has a crush on you, and this and that, like kids,
kids are just gonna be kids, and they like this
is when all their hormones are kicking in and stuff.
And I noticed this with with my ten year old,
that there's a lot of drama associated with the like
(31:38):
change between being a child and then being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
And with all of the.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Girls and the boys too that because they just don't
know what these feelings they're experiencing and things like that.
And I think that there's a certain part of that.
You could look at movies from the fifties that display
this cute little relationlationships between children.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
But does that make it right? I mean, the girls
even it's not.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Real, like it's just real though, okay that he likes
this person and likes this pi, but.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
It's causing out real drama. Like the girls come home
from school when they're giving us their daily drama onload,
that's like childhood nonsense that we have to listen to.
They'll be like so and so got married to so
and so, but he wants to marry so and so.
And I'm like, why is this causing real drama in
your life over these mythical relationships?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
This is the thing when you're a parent, there's Listen.
If I had a choice, I'd be like, my kids
aren't dating until they're twenty five years old, really, because
their brains will be more developed, they'll be able to
handle it more, they won't get their heart broken as much.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I want them to be like full established women before
they start dating, right, But like, reality is what reality is,
and you need to teach them how to navigate what's
happening in reality. Like listen, if there's every single parent
of kids that are in these grades can talk about
little love stories that their kids have, and nobody's talking
(33:08):
about murdering a child. So it's like this is just
like a weird, one off thing and no, I or
maybe not one off, but super rare, And.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I agree with that. It just made me want to
make a topic that it's a behavior. I've noticed a
lot where people talk about little kids having active boyfriend
and girlfriends. Yeah, I mean, I think it's bizarre.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I don't. I don't push it for sure, because parents
could push anything on their kids and have it be okay, right.
I don't sit there and be like, oh, so hoo,
do you think it's hot.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
In your class? And this?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
You know, like I'm not. But I also don't want
to be that parent that's like you're not allowed to
date because all kids do is do that shit behind
your back, like if you're if you're if you were
like a slimy kid, like I was, like you would
just my mom said not to watch MTV, So what
did I do? I watched MTV all day at my
friend's house. Like it's the same shit with YouTube, like
(34:02):
you can't if you tell them that they can't have it. Ever,
it's more about like monitoring a little bit more like
my approach has just let them on it a little bit.
They only could be on it X amount of hours
a day instead of free range of trying to be
in the middle a little bit.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
But those couple.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Hours that they're on it, trust me, they're saying shit
that I don't want them to see.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
You know, that's inevitable. Yeah, And I think if you
have a middle ground, like you're saying, give them a
little exposure, like you let them live your life, but
they also have an understanding that that's not acceptable behavior,
that's like what you have to do. Because I had
a friend growing up that's parents were like, never let
her do anything, they never let her leave, and then
the second she got older, she went crazy. So like,
(34:45):
you have that happen on one end, or you have
your kids, who are you know, eight years old having
TikTok on another end. So I think the middle ground
is where we need to meet. I just wanted to
take that as a time to talk about how I
noticed this is a trending thing lately. All right, let's
move on to our last story. So back in twenty
twenty two, a twenty four year old died in a
car accident, and when his family attended his viewing. A
(35:07):
week later, his body was covered in maggots at the
funeral home. So obviously this is not something that's normal.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
No, no, it's not, and especially in a case like this,
So this is something that could happen if you ever
hear like, oh, they found a body in the river
or something like that, Well that person has been dead
for a while maybe, and that would be a reason
why you would see the body can decompose, and there's
(35:34):
oftentimes that funeral homes get decomposed bodies, to which they
will say to the family like, we highly, highly highly
advise that you do not have an open casket. And
in fact, some funeral homes will say we're not doing
an open casket because they can't make the person not
look green and bloated anymore and take away all of
(35:55):
the things that are happening when a person decomposes. And
once decomposition starts happening, you could still slow it down
with embombing and stuff, but like it's already in motion,
so it's just going to continue to start happening. So
in this case, it's very weird because and that's why
I was really specifical on looking at the lawsuit and
seeing the times the guy died in a car accident,
(36:18):
which means that and according to the lawsuit too, he
died on this day and they called the funeral home
the day the guy died. So if someone dies drops dead,
however they die, and they go to the funeral home
that day, their body should automatically be put into refrigeration
or should be embombed immediately. And if that's not happening,
(36:40):
then the person's going to start decomposing. And that's what
happened in this case. I don't know where the lapse
of time was, but there was a whole entire seven
days before the person died and the viewing happened. And
in those seven days, in order to decompose to the
point where there's maggot activity, that the body was clearly
(37:01):
not in proper refrigeration and not embombed in a timely fashion.
Because even if you put the body person dies in
a car accident, you put them in the refrigerator, they're
not going to develop maggots in those in seven days.
It's not going to happen. So the only way that
it happened was that the person wasn't put into refrigeration
(37:23):
and I mean, think about the shock of going to
your loved one who died tragically in a car accident,
so an unexpected death, and then going to the funeral
and seeing maggots come out of their nose and their ears, Like,
that's so disturbing. They should one hundred percent sue this
funeral home for that.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Well, then, according to the family, somebody had screamed when
they saw the guy in the casket, and then they
were like, stop making a scene the funeral home. Okay,
that's an incredibly disturbing thing to see.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I can't even imagine it. Do you think that the
person at the funeral home thought that. I mean, listen,
no one at the funeral home should ever be telling
a family not to cause a scene for anything, because.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
People grieve in different ways.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
They grieve in different ways, and they have very Sometimes
people have a very emotional response to seeing, you know,
their kid dead in a casket, right, Like, so even
if she was just screaming just because she was upset,
you should never be telling a person when you're the employee,
to like not cause a scene. That's weird, Yeah, because
this is not the first time somebody screamed at a
funeral home. I mean, it's not like a ninety five
(38:29):
year old man that lived a fulfilling life and he
died peacefully in his sleep. This is a person in
their twenties that died tragically already, and that could be
a horrific site in itself, seeing a properly embalmed person
laying in a casket, and then on top of it,
you see your loved one with bugs crawling all over
their face. It's disgusting. Yeah, So the I think it
(38:49):
was the mother in the lawsuit did mention that when
she went to the viewing that the room seemed to
be very warm, which what I mean really it shouldn't.
It shouldn't ever be, even if the body has been
properly refrigerated and embombed. But if it was, the maggots
don't happen right away, Like a fly has to first
(39:11):
land on the dead tissue, which they're attracted to because
of the decomposition, and then the eggs have to hatch.
It's a process. It's not something that just happened five
minutes prior to that viewing. So we've heard cases like
this before of where people are not put in a
proper refrigeration and that's what happens. I actually had an
(39:33):
autopsy once of the only pregnant person autopsy I did,
and the woman had died at a hospital in Philadelphia,
and we were doing the autopsia at another hospital in Philadelphia,
and there was a time where she left the one
hospital and went to the funeral home and was there
for twelve hours. But it was in the middle of
the dead hot summer heat wave in Philadelphia, and by
(39:55):
the time she got to us, she was decomposed. And
I'm just like, if she died at the hospit bittle
went to the funeral home, went in the fridge, and
then came to us and went and went in our fridge.
There's absolutely no way that she was green and bloated
at that point. So they did not put her in refrigeration,
which was a problem for our autopsy findings, honestly.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
And that's like a whole other story.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
But we've had stories on Mother Knows Death of people
not properly putting bodies into the refrigerator at a funeral home.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
And that's what happens. All right, Let's move on to
questions of the day. Every Friday at the at Mother
Knows Death, Instagram account, You guys can head to our
story and ask whatever you want. Can you explain how
amniotic fluid embolism is a diagnosis of exclusion? Is there
no clear sign that was the cause of death? So
that's a really interesting thing. We wrote about this.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
We did a celebrity death this section on nurse Hallie
that was at our New Grads. I'm sure lots of
you who are in the medical field were following her
on her social media and this was her cause of death,
So we did that pretty recently. But it's a very
so an amniotic embolism is when somehow the fetal tissue
(41:08):
gets into the maternal circulation and causes a reaction and
causes a mother to die shortly after either during childbirth
shortly after childbirth, And it's a very rare thing that happens,
but it happens, and it cannot really be predicted. There's
some risk factors that you should take into consideration, but
it's just something that kind of has to be dealt
(41:30):
with if it happens. So back in the day, they
would say that an amniotic fluid embolism could only be
diagnosed at autopsy and it would be at looking at
lung tissue under the microscope, and there you would see
fetal cells within the maternal circulation. But that's not really
the case anymore to say one hundred percent that that's
(41:53):
an amniotic embolism, because there have been cases where they've
done tissue, they've done autopsies, and they've seen tissue that
they could prove that there are fetal cells circulating in
the maternal circulation of people who have absolutely no complications
with childbirth. So that in itself is okay, yes, maybe
(42:16):
they had this, but it doesn't prove one hundred percent
that that's what killed them. It's called an amnionic fluid embolism,
and the word embolism means that cells are tissue or
whatever occurs in one part of the body and it
travels to another part of the body.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
They're starting to think that.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
That is that an amniotic fluid embolism probably isn't the
proper terminology, and they're thinking that it has to do
with those cells getting into the maternal circulation, but the
body actually having like an allergic reaction to those cells
that only happens in some people, and they're not really
sure why that happens. But the presentation is more of
(42:57):
what would happen if a person has a severe and
a flow reaction, like if they got stung by a
bee or something, rather than symptoms that you would see
with a true embolism. So when they say it's exclusionary,
it means that they looked at all of the other
things that it could have been and they said, Okay,
it definitely can't be this. And at autopsy we see
(43:17):
pulmonary edema, and we see the cells in the maternal circulation,
and we see hemorrhage.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Then with all that they could.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Say, Okay, it's it was an amniotic embolism was the
cause of death.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
All right, two Nicole, what's with parasites and cleanses? Did
you ever find parasites during an autops.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
So I cannot stand that shit like parasites are I
will say this in this country, it is rare to
get parasites. When you see it in this country a
lot of times, it's like it really is when people travel.
I mean you see them from time to time. But
like I've seen a couple parasitic effects working in a
(44:03):
large city hospital for years, and the only time I
saw it was in cytology specimens that would come down
before I was even a PA. I've never seen it
in an autopsy ever, that people that like all of
these videos are claiming that there's these parasite cleanses and stuff.
It's just it's just not true. And what are these
(44:26):
people's backgrounds that are even showing this, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Not it's like fake wellness influencers who eat clean and
do parasite cleanses but then put all this botox and
filler in their face.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
But some of them are showing pictures of the shit
that they say is coming out, and it's like, that's
not even what a parasite looks like. It looks like
it's like sloughed off mucosa or the lining of the
bow in some cases. But like when you see parasitic worms,
they look like worms. They don't look like a little
stringy things or whatever. And like, personally, I just think that,
(44:59):
and like any body that I've ever talked to all
thinks that this is just complete bullshit. Now I'll tell
you in the grossroom, I have some nasty, nasty cases
of parasitic infections, and all of them really, I would
say probably ninety nine percent of these cases are all
from other countries where people where there's not plumbing, like
(45:20):
things like that, where people are shitting out in public
and then they're they're eating from the soil with the
shit in it, and they're just transferring disease all over
the place. It's just it's just not happening where there's
plumbing and there's healthcare and everything. It's just not happening
as often. Not to say that it can't, because it
does certainly happen in America, but like the average person
(45:44):
that's just going about their day and stuff is not
having a parasitic infection. Listen, you would know if you
add a parasitic infection.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
These people getting these capsules that have the parasites in
them to take them from like strange websites on the internet.
What the what are you talk These influencers are doing
these parasitic cleanses. Where are they getting them from? Well,
it's just I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
It's just like some kind of herbs and stuff that
they're saying or cleansing the parasites.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
There's a whole other thing.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
And I don't know if that's what you're talking about,
that people actually take parasites to lose weight.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
No, that's what I'm talking about people who are taking
capsules with parasites in them, because that's that's like it's
different to your health.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
They're losing weight. No, that's that's like a whole different thing.
The cleanse is like telling people if you take this
herbal supplement which probably has like center or something in
it that caused you know that that they give you
when whenever you need to like a laxative effect. Right,
It'll like you could take a laxative and cleanse yourself
out if you really want to write, if you really
(46:42):
think that you have parasites and stuff, you could do that.
But these ones are labeled parasite cleansed, but like it
doesn't have anything in it that's different than anything else.
But sometimes people take supplements that are like tapeworm to
lose weight. You could and you could get them on
the internet somewhere.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Like No, that's what I was thinking this whole time
you're talking about was now taking there's there's people The
cleanse is to just like you thinking that that, like
you listening to these influencers that all have parasites and
if you take this, you'll get rid of your parasites too,
and then the other one is intentionally ingesting parasites so
(47:18):
you could lose weight. No, that's what I'm talking about
with the influencers. Influencers is that they're pushing taking parasites
to cleanse their body.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
I know, I know there's some of them that are
doing that too, but that's not what the typical parasite
cleanse is considered. Like there's influencers that take these parasite
cleanses and show piece like like pictures of their ship
and say like, look at all these worms that were
inside of me, and you're like, that's not worms, but okay, Like,
(47:47):
but I mean they go viral and people it's it's
a big business. But I mean you do you get
get it if you want, but like it's you don't
need to go take a doll Collex or something.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
All right, last question is for me, given everything we know,
were you a MySpace scene queen or more emo? And
did you go to warp Tour. I wanted to be
a scene queen, but I was too ugly, so I
just stop. I'm joking. I was obsessed with Audrey, Kitchen, Reckillery,
Jack Vanik, all of them. I had all their bracelets.
Of course I went to Warp Tour because that's where
(48:18):
I had to buy the bracelets. I had these amazing
Jeffree Star ones. I had the coolest Jeffrey Star hoodie ever. Yeah,
of course I went to Warp Tour. It's my first
concert ever. You brought me for the first time.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
When I was eleven, and it just kind of I
think that, like since I was with Maria during this
whole phase, which was terrible, by the way, I think
the scene Queen, like any kind of these looks that
you commit to are a lot of work. Like do
you ever watch a person that's like there's all these
(48:50):
videos that showed now like a really goth person that
they get a makeover and it makes them look like,
you know, they have like aenormy yeah, like enormy Right.
When I look at these in particular, like a goth
person like that or something, I'm like, that's a lot
of maintenance every day, and and man, Maria, well, I
am a fairly low maintenance person as far as like
(49:14):
I don't go get my hair done all the time.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I get it cut once a year.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
I don't dye my hair, like I don't wear makeup
if I don't have to. The only maintenance I do
is like getting my nails done every three weeks, right,
Like I don't want to get dressed up every day
when you're a seeing queen. It was just like, wasn't it,
Like the really hot pink hair and the crazy eyeliner
and the crazy.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Makeup and the full outfit.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
It's just like a lot every day to commit to
something like that.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
It was like extremely teased out hair with like long
extensions called coon tails where you would like dyet to
look like raccoon, and then you had to wear the
crazy wing the eyeliner and bows and hello kitty barets.
Like it was.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
There was lots of the race like it's just like
too much to do every day, but you need to
go to school, and like I know a lot of
people like look at people and there's all sorts of things.
There's like the the emo seeing queens and the goth people.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
There's like whole groups of people.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
But I always look at those people and I'm like, damn,
like that, that's like dedication. It's a lot of work
to do that every single day, and I just don't,
like I'm just too lazy, Like I just want to
walk around and like flip flops and a T shirt
every day and like get dressed up on occasion.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
And I feel like.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Maria was the same way. Like I'm just kind of
like you want to wake up an hour and a
half before school every day to like do your hair
and makeup so you could like look like this every day.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
It's just a lot. Listen. I tried. It just wasn't
for me. I was obsessed with the look. It just
wasn't happening. I eventually settled on having you dye strips
of red in my hair, and then I wore my
Chemical Romance t shirts and kind of settled it there.
But I don't know if I've talked about this. I
had this like pivotal point in my childhood where you
were like you could get this build a bear, or
(50:58):
you could get this T shirt that says I love
boys who wear eyeliner, And that's what I was, like,
it's like growing up today or what it was from touring.
I'll never forget that day. It was like so funny,
it's so stupid.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, but that was like one hundred percent of
the scene of like what you were into. And I
just I don't know, it's just like far from what
I was into. But Maria was full on in it,
and I tried to support her in it by taking
her to like, well.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
You took me to Warp Tour in two thousand and six,
which was my first concert ever, and that's like where
I got introduced. I was already into a lot of
the music at that point, but that's where I got
introduced to, like Thursday, the casualties, like a bunch of
SKA bands and stuff. So that was a really cool experience,
and then I went every year throughout my teens. Basically,
my dream when I was a teenager was to be
a photographer on the Warp Tour, which, upon reflection and
(51:55):
my husband having worked at a music venue, would have
been a horrible idea because young girls like me get
preyed on by these predators and these bands, so it
probably would have been a horrible choice, but it worked out.
I would have liked it at the time, That's what
I said, because I'll be talking about a band I like,
and Ricky's like, that guy's a scumbag. He was banging
(52:16):
sixteen year olds in the back of the venue I
worked at, and I'm like, yeah, but I would have
thought that was the coolest.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
I would have been one of them, and that would
that would have been amazing.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
I would have thought I was special exactly. So upon reflection,
it's probably better it didn't work out that way. But
that was most of my youths, shooting shows every single weekend,
and Warped Tour was definitely a large part of it.
All right, Well, thank you guys so much. Don't forget
to buy tickets for our Atlanta meet and greet and
the Crime and Wine. And did you say that you
were going, because I know, I don't think I even
(52:46):
said I was going. Originally I didn't think I could
go to Atlanta, but just in the last week or two,
I am now going, So I will also be there
at the meet and greet in the Crime and Wine.
So tickets for that you could buy in the description
of this episode in the grocery or on our social
media head over to Apple or Spotify. Please leave us
a nice review or subscribe to our YouTube channel, and
(53:06):
if you have a story for us, please submit it
to stories at Mothernosdeath dot com.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, don't forget to mention that we're gonna have books
for sale.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, we're gonna have books for sale that I'll sign
for you, and maybe some special vouchers for the gross room. Sophie,
We'll say we'll see you guys soon. Saya.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Thank you for listening to Mother Nos Death. As a reminder,
my training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a
master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.
I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed
or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of
a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social
(53:51):
media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based
on my experience working in pathology, so they can make
healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember
that science is changing every day, and the opinions expressed
in this episode are based on my knowledge of those
subjects at the time of publication. If you are having
(54:13):
a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a
medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent
care center, emergency room or hospital. Please rate, review, and
subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or
anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks
Mother Knows Death starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Everyone welcome The Mother Knows Death. Well, there has been
a lot of shocking news story since our last episode,
so we are going to get into some of those today.
Of course, we're on Diddy Verdict Watch, so whenever that
comes out, we'll be talking about it, but not on
today's episode because really nothing is happening yet. We're going
to get into the plea deal with Brian Coburger that
(00:44):
he is apparently taking this week on his homicide conviction,
and we also have a couple freak accidents involving a
child that went overboard on a Disney cruise and a
woman who got stuck in a clothing donation box. And
then we're going to get into one of the most
disturbed stories that we've ever heard about children that plan
on killing their classmate. Yes, that is true, you heard
(01:06):
me correctly. And then we'll finish the episode with a
maggot infested body at a funeral home. So let's get
started with this shocking Brian Coburger news that came kind
of out of nowhere.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I was in the middle of cooking dinner last night
and I just opened Instagram really quick while I was
waiting for something to finish off, and then I see
Cheryl made this post and was like, I've confirmed with
a family member that Coburger has made a plea deal.
And I was like, there's just no way, Like, there's
just absolutely no ways too, And I just start seeing
it filling and filling and filling in on my social
(01:41):
media and then I turn on the news and it's
on there. I cannot believe he has made a plea deal.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
You know what I'm thinking happened. And obviously, like I
have no idea what happens in the system as far
as trying cases like this and stuff, but I think
that he's just been throwing all this stuff out and
trying to see if it would stick. One of them
being like, oh, I'm autistic, all of it. I got
to diagnose with autism this year, Like you can't put
(02:07):
me to the death penalty and all this stuff, and
the judge kept on throwing away all of this stuff,
and the most recent one that it seems got thrown
out was that he was trying to say that there
were other people involved with this murder, and the judge
was like, yeah, no, we're not hearing any of that
stuff because that's whatever reason they said, they're just not
(02:28):
hearing it. And that could have been like his final
thing that he was trying to throw out and see
if he could get a bite on it, and since
there was no way to get out of it, this
is what he has to do in order to save
his own life.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I'm not surprised he took the plea deal. I'm surprised
they offered it to him because in my mind, they
had a pretty solid case, So why wouldn't you try
to go forward with it. Was it tax reasons, like
they didn't want to spend the money on it. Was
it to spare the family of not having to hear
the horrific details. Are we ever going to get those
ds with him making this deal.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I'm sure, But obviously there's going to be a point
where the gag order is lifted. So the family especially
has a lot of the details. I don't know if
they had access to the autopsy report. I'm sure they are,
but everybody has been had to keep quiet with all
of the details of this case, so a lot of
it is public information. I'm sure that a lot of
(03:24):
it is going to get released and where there's going
to be thousands of episodes talking about it.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
You know, On one hand, I look.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
At it like people who usually get to death penalty,
most of them don't even get put to death.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
There's all of these appeals.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
It costs so much money, and that could really drag
on for the family as well. Whereas I feel like,
right now they're not happy with this. But if it's
if if he pleads tomorrow, which he's supposed to plead guilty,
which he has to at this point, right because even
though he said he was going to technical he doesn't
(04:00):
have to, but like, why would he do that?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I think also tomorrow when they go to the
hearing that the judge has to approve it, So I
guess there is a possibility that the judge cannot approve
it correct and then what happens then? Does it still
go forward?
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Well, I'm sure that that's all ironed out already before
they released this, because now he has basically told the
world that he's guilty. So if he pulls out of
it or gets pulled out of it for any reason,
then how are they going to find a jury when
now they've told the whole world that he is guilty
of doing this. It's just it, like we all know
(04:36):
he's guilty, like I've said this from day one, just
based on his eyes, like he's one hundred percent guilty.
But I do I feel bad for the family. But
at the same time, like I know that they were saying,
we already know the gruesome details. They possibly have already
read the autopsy reports. I'm telling you right now, based
upon the little that I know about it, that you
(04:57):
never want to hear about your family men, especially your
child being butchered alive, which is what happened in these cases.
But there's a big difference between reading about the injuries
and then seeing what it looks like in photographs. Obviously,
in a lot of court cases, the family leaves the
room when they show the autopsy pictures. I think that
(05:20):
just showing the autopsy pictures alone in court to all
of the jurors would make him guilty if there was
enough evidence to back that he was the one that
did it. Because I'm telling you that it is so gruesome.
If you remember from the crime scene photos that there
was blood dripping outside of the house, which means to
me that there was such a significant amount of blood.
(05:43):
I mean, think about all of the layers of a
house for it to leak through and be visible like that. No,
it's just you have you have dry wall, insulation, the
outer wall, the siding, all.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Of this stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's just it was a gruesome seat and the family
for sure does not need to see any of that
pictures getting leaked perhaps, I mean, like right now, at
least if he goes tomorrow and says I'm guilty and
promises that there's no appeals and he's in jail forever,
the family can heal and move on from this instead
(06:16):
of it just getting brought up, Like look at what
Lacy Peterson's mom is going through with. First he was
given the death penalty, then they took it away, then
he was supposed to be life in prison, and now
they're trying to fight that her daughter died such a
long time ago, and she's still she's an old woman
and still dealing with this every single day instead of
(06:37):
trying to move on with what life she's got left.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
No, I understand that. I guess there was also confusion
with how it was brought up to the family. So
when I was watching News Nation last night, one of
the reporters was saying that the family was consulted really
shortly beforehand about it and everybody was against it, but
it wasn't necessarily a consultation, more of a heads up
that it was already going down. I think it first
(07:03):
came up that it was a possibility on Friday, and
then by Sunday night they got word that it was happening,
so they barely had time to process it. So I mean,
by the time this episode airs, this news hasn't even
been out for twenty four hours. So I'm sure that
there's a lot more that's going to go down with this,
and maybe we'll find out the reason. Maybe the prosecution
(07:25):
wasn't one hundred percent certain that they were going to
be able to nail it. I just don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
But ultimately, would you want to take the risk of
him getting off no, I because that would be worse
for the family.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, I think it's a lot for them to process
because in everybody's mind it was such a solid case.
But maybe they just came across some discovery that could
have put reasonable doubt in the jurors minds and they
were like, you know what, let's do this because at
least we'll get him. I don't really know what went
on behind the scenes right now. Well, what's also really interesting,
and we've talked about this on this show, is that
(08:05):
there's this whole entire population that believes that he's innocent,
including someone who listens to our show and left the
comment on one of our YouTube videos saying we were assholes
for saying that this guy is guilty. Right, So that
might also worry prosecutors as well, because every normal person
that's looking at this case is just like, come on, like,
(08:26):
how many things do you have to say that are
blatantly obvious? I personally didn't need any of those details
because I told you he has creepy eyes. But besides that,
there's still a population of people, a big population of
people online that just don't believe it, and that has
to scare prosecutors for sure. Well, of course, I mean,
(08:47):
any single thing on the Internet, there's gonna be one
side or the other. There's nothing in the world that
all people are gonna agree on. There's even people like
we would think that with something horrific like pedophilia or rape,
but there are people that are into that stuff. So
it's unfortunate but this is the world we live in today.
This is not gonna sound right the way I'm saying it,
But I was looking forward to watching the trial in
(09:10):
the sense of seeing how they catch a person seeing
all the DNA, seeing all the evidence that led them
to him, what they found at the crime scene. I
hope we still get that from an investigator perspective, how
that all went down in the documents. I'm sure we
will at some point, because you're saying the gag order
is gonna have to be lifted at some point. Is
that going to be like on Wednesday? Or are we gonna
(09:31):
be scrambling next week to try to write this dis
section for everybody?
Speaker 1 (09:35):
See, this is what pisses me off, though, And this
is why the family's pissed off.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It's Brian Coburger is.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Still in control of their children and still in control
of them. Yes, he's in control of all of it.
And that's why the family feels like, I mean, I
can't imagine with my children like they're mine. They're my children, right,
I can't imagine someone else making decisions in because for them,
(10:05):
not me. And it's a feeling of a loss of
control for the parents. But it's also a feeling of
giving up that control to the person that killed them.
They want all of this to come out and in
hopes that maybe this will prevent this from ever happening again.
You know, so I feel I just feel terrible for
them not to mention the fact that no one even
(10:28):
called them and told them they got an email with
a letter attached. Who knows what the letter attached is
because I was hearing that he wrote a letter to
the families or something like that, So who knows what
that says.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
No freaking way should they send that to them. That
is not right. He's on an email on a Sunday night,
like he should not.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Have any access to talk to them directly. Yeah, and
no matter how, one hundred percent sure of that. But
what I'm saying is that, like it's Sunday night, you're
sitting in your house, you're watching TV. I mean, you
have to move on, so you're maybe you're having dinner,
you're sitting there having ice cream, not that you're like
life is ever the same, and then all of a
sudden you get this email out of the blue that's
just like, oh, this is happening, and it's happening on
(11:07):
July second, and you have to be there. And you
have to remember, like some of these families don't live
around there. They have to they have other kids they
have to deal with, they have to travel, they have
to get places and just and they have to be there.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I mean, this is this is a big deal.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
The families have to be there, and it like not
to even have any respect to give them at least
a week's notice, like to make arrangements. It's just and
not to mention all the other times that they had
to go there for all of this stuff. The whole
thing's kind of been a circus. One messed up thing
that I learned today is that after all this, if
he does plead guilty and everything's settled, his lawyer, who's
(11:44):
a public defender who we're paying for with our tax dollars,
is going to make almost a million dollars off of
this case.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh, I'm sure they're going to write a book. I'm
sure they're going to.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
She's going to write a book. I mean, I don't
know what the plea deal is going to involve. What
he could talk about, because he's he's like the ultimate
he's trying to make himself be like the ultimate crime
scene investigator forensic person, right, and he's going to be
allowed to do this in jail now that he's going
to be able to talk about being not only being
(12:15):
a person that's in a PhD program and has degrees
in criminology, but from the perspective of a person that
committed the crime as well.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
And that shit sells and I don't know, yeah, but
he's not. He legally cannot make money off of any.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Care It's not the money. It's not the money, it's
the fame. It's the infamy. It's like he wants to
be the next BTK or he wants to be the
next Ted Bundy, like the guy that everybody talks about,
and he certainly is going to get that over the
course of his life.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I don't necessarily have a problem with his attorney writing
books and doing interviews off of it, because, I mean,
she didn't choose this case. She's a public defender. Everybody
has a right to an attorney. It's not like she
sought him out. I'm sure she was scared out of
her mind having to deal with that crazy eye dude
like every day. Like and then you have to think
people can't see that she's a public defender and that
(13:08):
this case was assigned to her. And I'm sure she's
getting death threats every single day. It's not like she's
gonna go on to live this amazingly baller life. She's
probably gonna live in fear forever. What if he breaks
out or something it goes after.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
He's definitely not breaking out. But you know what's crazy?
Last night when I posted this on my Instagram stories
and just was putting pictures of his crazy eyes, I like,
I get the pictures off the news, and I put
them and they were on my phone and I have
to delete them because he scares the shit out of me. Well,
and imagine her like having to visit him. And I
(13:40):
know oftentimes the defense lawyers know what happened because they'll
say to their client, you need to tell me what happened,
and I'm going to try to get you out of it.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Basically, so he can't. She can't say what he told
her attorney client privilege. So what does that Does that
end after it's all done? No, I don't think so.
I think any thing he told her was in complete confidence,
so she could probably talk about the tactic she was
gonna go forward and like everything that's happened so far
in the process. But I don't think legally she can
(14:10):
say what he told her in private.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
I don't really know about that, but all right, so
let's we'll get back.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
To this when we hear more stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Obviously it's it's only what twelve hours later, barely bare barely, right,
so so hopefully we'll get more information about that. But
we just wanted to talk about it because we've been
talking about that case for years here in the Groceryman
on mother nos death. All right, So another big story
(14:38):
that happened this week was you know, you guys know
that we've been talking about this dreaded cruise that we
had to go on with with our family and it
was okay, it wasn't it wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
It was just like the whole recap.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, we had the recast episode, but yeah, so then
we so so now we feel like we're experts on
crew ships because we've actually been on one. And to
hear this story about a kid that accidentally went overboard
and the dad jumping in after the kid on a
Disney cruise is outrageous.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Do you find that it's bizarre that all these cruise
stories are pouring in just as we went on. I
feel like we've never had this many so close together.
It was kind of like all the airplane stuff clustered together. Yeah,
it really is topic.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I'm just like, all right, we heard about the poop
cruise last week, and then we hear about this, and
there's been other stories that are coming out too.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
It's just.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Ironic, but we love to talk about it, so let's talk.
Let's tell what happened with this Disney cruise.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
So over the weekend on a Disney cruise, passengers were
just going about the boat when they heard the emergency
code mister mob, which means man overboard. So it turns
out that a child fell off of deck four and
that her father jumped in right after her. So at
first it wasn't really clear what happened and how she
fell first. I guess I'll get into they were rescued
(16:01):
very quickly, and we'll talk about the statistics with that
and everything in a little bit, But I guess at
first it was really unclear how she fell in. And
then NBC was reporting that some people saw the child
on a railing sitting on it so the dad could
take a photo of her, and then that's how she
went over the edge, which I think everybody could agree
is not a good idea, but.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
It's totally possible, yes, on the cruise ship. And we
have the picture we posted on Instagram of our whole family.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We were in.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Front of a similar thing that we could have sat
a child up on and said take a picture. So
this is just like that a dad being a dad
and not doing a safe practice. But not that anybody
deserves this, but clearly this is not a good idea ever,
especially like do you remember the bar was like really
moist all the time because of the humidity in the air.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It was like wet and slippery. Well, we're writing up
cruise injuries and deaths for the Grosser Room this week
and next week, and when I started writing up the
man overboard section, I was going to put a picture
of Lubert versus you next to the rail wing to
show a child, you know, couldn't just accidentally tip over.
But you're a tall person. How tall are you? Like
(17:13):
five ten? You can just have like five to eight
five nine, Yeah, you could just flip right over. I mean,
I'm a surety. So I don't think I buy possibility
of it, but I could also see it happening. And
I said on last episode, I was extremely critical of
falling off the boats, but now I see how it's
pretty easy, especially well, not in this case, but I
could see in other cases when alcohol is involved in
(17:35):
your drug and you're not paying attention, or a you know,
a kid just trying to take a cool picture and
she just slipped.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, it's just and obviously it's a Disney cruise, so
it's geared towards parents and children, and every parent is
just like got to know what happened and how this happened.
But it doesn't seem at this time that it was
a problem with the boat itself. It's just more you like,
we were talking all about the ship and just how
easily it is for people to get over the other
(18:03):
side of the bars, and you just have to you
can't watch the whole boat at all times, and you
just have to assume that people are not going to
do dumb shit, and people do dumb shit, and this
is a dumb thing. And luckily, like what a story
to tell your family growing up after surviving something like this.
(18:25):
I was showing Gabe the video.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So, my husband is he's on the New Jersey Task
Force and he does swift water training because he goes
to all of these hurricanes and rescues people in water situations.
Not the ocean ever, but similar with like North Carolina
and Ashville and just very fast, rapid rising waters. And
(18:49):
he was just looking at the condition of the water
and the boat, how it was rocking, and he's like,
it is actually amazing that this father was able to
tread this water for twenty minutes with a child. Like
he's just because Gabees just like I obviously would have
jumped in too. I wouldn't even have thought twice about it.
But he's just like, that's not easy to do and
(19:10):
it's amazing that they got to them with only twenty minutes,
but that he was able to do it because it's
hard to do with yourself because you tie her out,
But think about trying to hold a child up as well.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
That doesn't have the strength to do that. No, And
in the post next week, I'm going to talk about
this guy who fell in the Gulf and they he
was treading water for twenty hours and survived. They got
him well I'll get more into that, but surviving man
overboard is not likely in most cases. So there's this
data from two thousand and nine to twenty nineteen from
Cruise Lines International Association where they reported that there was
(19:45):
two hundred and twelve cases of people falling overboard, which
is about nineteen incidents per year. So of those two
hundred and twelve people, only forty eight people survived, which
is not a lot, so there's way less. It's way
less than half, so it's not good. Yeah, they're extremely
lucky that they survived. I mean, the boat stopped immediately.
(20:06):
What they tell you to do if they see you
is that or if you see somebody overboard, is you
need to immediately alert staff. If you see them and
you're near one of the life buoys that's on the boat,
throw it overboard because anything that could help them float
is helpful. And then they're gonnak. The boat's gonna alert
the coast guard. The boat's gonna stop and try to
deploy rescue boats, and then, depending on the situation, they're
(20:28):
gonna look with the coast guard or they can in
this case get the people with their own rescue boat
very quickly, and then they do it until they either
find the person or they determine their lost So it's
kind of nuts, it is.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
And and a lot of the witnesses on the boat too,
I mean, when you're in the ocean, it's just such
a it's such an amazing thing to just see how
it just goes on forever and it's just so large,
and it's just it doesn't end right. But the people
were saying that they were so surprised that this dad
and his child looked like like specs in the ocean,
(21:02):
Like you couldn't even tell it was a person. It
was so small just by looking down, just because the
ocean is so large. So kudos to all involved. Did
Disney people really seemed like they were trained and ready
for something like this to happen.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And you don't want to have to go on.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
A cruise ship that like all of the decks have
plexiglass on them because they're scared somebody is going to
do that again. So hopefully, I don't know. I'm sure
there's signs everywhere that say not to go up there,
but like humans are humans, and this is just gonna
forever happen.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
This kind of stuff. We'll also get into a case
where the plexiglass literally didn't matter either, because people just
don't follow the rules. Sometimes it's good to be a rule.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Follower, guys, sometimes you know best.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
All right. So last week in Florida, police got a
call that someone was stuck inside of a clothing donation box.
But when they got there, they found a dead woman inside.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, so this woman was it was a nurse I believe,
or teacher.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Was a nurse or a teacher. A teacher came across
a person that looked like they were stuck in the
donation box.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
But so it was six o'clock. It was like six
o'clock in the morning. She was probably on her way
to do something. And just you know, we all have
these trash bags in our trunk full of clothes to
put in the donation box that usually sit in our
trunk for like six months before we're like, oh, there's one,
let's drop it off. And there's a pretty pink one,
let me stick it in there. So she goes up
to there and sees a person sticking out. I mean,
(22:31):
that's shocking, right, she'd obviously she didn't examine them to
see if anything was going on, but the woman was
clearly dead here they find out that she was homeless.
They think that possibly they don't know exactly what happened,
but they think that it could possibly be a positional asphyxia,
so that's when your body is bent in such a
way that you're not able to have oxygen exchange anymore.
(22:54):
And they think that that happened because she was probably
going in the box trying to find stuff and get
stuff out, like closed. So that's really sad and terrible
that anybody would die in that way.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
God, and I just have to imagine it's so hot
down there too, and if you get stuck in there,
you're just like trapped in that heat.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, I mean, if you're trapped bet in half like
that and you can't expand your chest for respiration, that's terrible.
But also just the lack of oxygen in general within
that box wouldn't be great either, So just the combination
of all of it is terrible. And I guess we'll
maybe we'll hear more if we probably won't hear anything
(23:33):
unless it was like, oh, she was murdered and stuffed
in the box, But just on first examination, they think
that that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
This episode is brought to you by the Grosserom.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Like we said this week and next week's high profile death,
this section are all about injuries on cruise ships and
deaths and all sorts of diseases you could pick up,
including parasitic infections, which is just the worst thing ever
that could happen to people.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
We also have every.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Month in the Grosser Room, we have a monthly giveaway
where we give away yearly memberships merch from our store,
and we give a two hundred dollars gift card to
a member every month too. So if you want to
just join and check it out just for a month
and see if you like it, which you will love it.
You could also enter for a chance to win a
year membership.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, head over to the grossroom dot com now to
sign up.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
All right, So this is another news story that came
out recently about kids who were seriously planning to kill
another child.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
So four fifth grade girls aged ten to eleven, which
also surprised me that it was girls allegedly plotted to
kill a classmate by stabbing him in the school bathroom
and staging it to look like a suicide, and they
were going to put a forged suicide note out at reesis.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
So the whole entire plan I guess was overheard by
kids who told their parents who called the school, But
it was it was a very intricate plan that included
one child luring the kid into the bathroom, one child
stabbing the kid, one child looking out like it's just
it's absolutely crazy. They they they actually said that they
(25:25):
were planning on using gloves so they didn't leave fingerprints
on the weapon.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Crazy that they're so young and they have these assigned
roles basically like this was that mapped out?
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Well, they get they're getting it from somewhere, right, I
mean kids, kids do not come up with this shit
on their own.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I don't know because when they so, they searched them
and figured out the plan, and then when the school
talked to them, they said three of the girls showed remorse,
but one of them thought it was funny and was smiling.
So what I assume that was the mastermind of the plan,
because that's not normal behavior for a young girl.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, and I think it's hard when when girls are
in I mean, I have a child that's in fifth
grade who's a girl. I can't even imagine something like
this going down but you see with different circumstances that
kids bring up an idea and then their other friends
go along with it because kids don't want to go
(26:25):
against what they think, especially with the cool kids saying
or whatever. It's just it's so it's so shocking to me.
But this is something that all parents that are that
are my age or younger, that have children that are
growing up right now have to deal with that that
we didn't have to deal with when we were kids.
(26:47):
And it's because of social media and just the access
to things that they have. They don't they know about
things that they shouldn't know about. When we were kids,
it was like, okay, we would maybe stumble across TV
shows or something and hear about cases or see it
in the newspaper. But it's just different now because of
(27:07):
YouTube and these short videos and these you know, true
crime is a huge thing, and when the kids are
watching YouTube, that stuff is not filtered out to them
and you could say, oh, there's YouTube kids and stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
It's just like.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Listen, no ten to fifteen year old wants to watch
YouTube kids. It's a bunch of cocoa melon videos and shit.
They want to see things that are interesting to them,
and unfortunately, it's like you have YouTube kids, which is
like Barney videos, and then the full world wide web
that with access to everything, there's no in between.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Well, even when we post these videos on our YouTube channel,
one of the questions that's a mandatory prompt before you publish,
is this video for kids? They'll give a shit. Yeah,
but that's what ideos all the time that my kids.
This is what I'm saying. If I click yes, it
is for kids, is there a person manually reviewing it
or does it just go live for children until it's
(28:02):
reported otherwise.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
I have several children come to my house and say
that our reels show up in their feed.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, they're not in the kids because I've never marked
it as safe for kids. Exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
This is what I'm saying, though, Like that doesn't even
matter at all. And listen, there's thousands of articles and
stories from parents that'll just be like, Oh, I was
sitting there watching YouTube with my kid and this video
came up, and this video came up, and it's just like,
the only way to prevent it is to not let
your kid go on it. And I don't know if
(28:39):
I don't know if that's actually practical or if it's
a good idea to withhold things like that from them
and not teach them how to navigate it because it
is the world that we live in.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Well, this really reminds me of the slender Man case,
where I think this was the first time we really
saw this horrible impact on children just having free reign
of the inner and going on creepy pasta and seeing
this mythical creature that was saying it was okay to
kill right, And they ended up stabbing that girl and
thankfully she survived. I mean, what if they executed this plan.
(29:13):
I'm kind of bothered that they were. I mean, I
know they're little kids, but they were only charged with
misdemeanors and their suspended pending expulsion. But like, is this
the only trouble they're getting in? Do they have to
go to mandated therapy? This is really concerning behavior for
little kids, It really it is.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
And you know what, though, like their brains are not
formed even a little bit. It's just like you can't,
you can't. They're just they're they're literally like repeating something
that they think sounded cool. I just don't think I mean,
I don't know, I'm not a psychologist and stuff, and
I'm sure people like Brian Coberger were screwed up their
(29:53):
whole life, and we're you know, the first sign of
someone camping out as a sociopath doesn't happen when they're
in their twenties or thirties, right, But it has to
start somewhere, And maybe one of the children that were
not remorseful has something going on that might come out
worse later when they're older. But just a lot of
(30:13):
it is just like I'm not one hundred percent sure.
It's the same thing as explaining to my kids about
getting hit by a car. They don't really understand what
happens when you.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Get hit by a car.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
They think it's like a ball and it's going to
bounce off and it'll like hurt, like when you fall
off your bike. They just don't understand that, like your
body's gonna get smeared along the sidewalk and do you
know what I'm saying, Like they just they don't know.
And that's why kids get hurt all the time doing
dumb shit because they just don't really understand the full
ramification of things. And kids just do other stuff all
(30:48):
the time and get in trouble because they just really
don't get it.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, I mean, another point I'm wanted to bring up
was the of course, the question is why were they
planning to kill this boy and they're saying it's because
he cheated in a relationship. Why are so many people
like this is a problem I've noticed lately. It's just
so many people are like talking about little kids like, oh,
they have a boyfriend, they have a girlfriend, Like stop
(31:12):
it their kids.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I understand that, but like that's I mean even when
when I was in school in the eighties, it was
like it started in like third grade, like oh, he
has a crush on you, and this and that, like kids,
kids are just gonna be kids, and they like this
is when all their hormones are kicking in and stuff.
And I noticed this with with my ten year old,
that there's a lot of drama associated with the like
(31:38):
change between being a child and then being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
And with all of the.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Girls and the boys too that because they just don't
know what these feelings they're experiencing and things like that.
And I think that there's a certain part of that.
You could look at movies from the fifties that display
this cute little relationlationships between children.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
But does that make it right? I mean, the girls
even it's not.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Real, like it's just real though, okay that he likes
this person and likes this pi, but.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
It's causing out real drama. Like the girls come home
from school when they're giving us their daily drama onload,
that's like childhood nonsense that we have to listen to.
They'll be like so and so got married to so
and so, but he wants to marry so and so.
And I'm like, why is this causing real drama in
your life over these mythical relationships?
Speaker 1 (32:30):
This is the thing when you're a parent, there's Listen.
If I had a choice, I'd be like, my kids
aren't dating until they're twenty five years old, really, because
their brains will be more developed, they'll be able to
handle it more, they won't get their heart broken as much.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I want them to be like full established women before
they start dating, right, But like, reality is what reality is,
and you need to teach them how to navigate what's
happening in reality. Like listen, if there's every single parent
of kids that are in these grades can talk about
little love stories that their kids have, and nobody's talking
(33:08):
about murdering a child. So it's like this is just
like a weird, one off thing and no, I or
maybe not one off, but super rare, And.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I agree with that. It just made me want to
make a topic that it's a behavior. I've noticed a
lot where people talk about little kids having active boyfriend
and girlfriends. Yeah, I mean, I think it's bizarre.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I don't. I don't push it for sure, because parents
could push anything on their kids and have it be okay, right.
I don't sit there and be like, oh, so hoo,
do you think it's hot.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
In your class? And this?
Speaker 1 (33:41):
You know, like I'm not. But I also don't want
to be that parent that's like you're not allowed to
date because all kids do is do that shit behind
your back, like if you're if you're if you were
like a slimy kid, like I was, like you would
just my mom said not to watch MTV, So what
did I do? I watched MTV all day at my
friend's house. Like it's the same shit with YouTube, like
(34:02):
you can't if you tell them that they can't have it. Ever,
it's more about like monitoring a little bit more like
my approach has just let them on it a little bit.
They only could be on it X amount of hours
a day instead of free range of trying to be
in the middle a little bit.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
But those couple.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Hours that they're on it, trust me, they're saying shit
that I don't want them to see.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
You know, that's inevitable. Yeah, And I think if you
have a middle ground, like you're saying, give them a
little exposure, like you let them live your life, but
they also have an understanding that that's not acceptable behavior,
that's like what you have to do. Because I had
a friend growing up that's parents were like, never let
her do anything, they never let her leave, and then
the second she got older, she went crazy. So like,
(34:45):
you have that happen on one end, or you have
your kids, who are you know, eight years old having
TikTok on another end. So I think the middle ground
is where we need to meet. I just wanted to
take that as a time to talk about how I
noticed this is a trending thing lately. All right, let's
move on to our last story. So back in twenty
twenty two, a twenty four year old died in a
car accident, and when his family attended his viewing. A
(35:07):
week later, his body was covered in maggots at the
funeral home. So obviously this is not something that's normal.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
No, no, it's not, and especially in a case like this,
So this is something that could happen if you ever
hear like, oh, they found a body in the river
or something like that, Well that person has been dead
for a while maybe, and that would be a reason
why you would see the body can decompose, and there's
(35:34):
oftentimes that funeral homes get decomposed bodies, to which they
will say to the family like, we highly, highly highly
advise that you do not have an open casket. And
in fact, some funeral homes will say we're not doing
an open casket because they can't make the person not
look green and bloated anymore and take away all of
(35:55):
the things that are happening when a person decomposes. And
once decomposition starts happening, you could still slow it down
with embombing and stuff, but like it's already in motion,
so it's just going to continue to start happening. So
in this case, it's very weird because and that's why
I was really specifical on looking at the lawsuit and
seeing the times the guy died in a car accident,
(36:18):
which means that and according to the lawsuit too, he
died on this day and they called the funeral home
the day the guy died. So if someone dies drops dead,
however they die, and they go to the funeral home
that day, their body should automatically be put into refrigeration
or should be embombed immediately. And if that's not happening,
(36:40):
then the person's going to start decomposing. And that's what
happened in this case. I don't know where the lapse
of time was, but there was a whole entire seven
days before the person died and the viewing happened. And
in those seven days, in order to decompose to the
point where there's maggot activity, that the body was clearly
(37:01):
not in proper refrigeration and not embombed in a timely fashion.
Because even if you put the body person dies in
a car accident, you put them in the refrigerator, they're
not going to develop maggots in those in seven days.
It's not going to happen. So the only way that
it happened was that the person wasn't put into refrigeration
(37:23):
and I mean, think about the shock of going to
your loved one who died tragically in a car accident,
so an unexpected death, and then going to the funeral
and seeing maggots come out of their nose and their ears, Like,
that's so disturbing. They should one hundred percent sue this
funeral home for that.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Well, then, according to the family, somebody had screamed when
they saw the guy in the casket, and then they
were like, stop making a scene the funeral home. Okay,
that's an incredibly disturbing thing to see.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I can't even imagine it. Do you think that the
person at the funeral home thought that. I mean, listen,
no one at the funeral home should ever be telling
a family not to cause a scene for anything, because.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
People grieve in different ways.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
They grieve in different ways, and they have very Sometimes
people have a very emotional response to seeing, you know,
their kid dead in a casket, right, Like, so even
if she was just screaming just because she was upset,
you should never be telling a person when you're the employee,
to like not cause a scene. That's weird, Yeah, because
this is not the first time somebody screamed at a
funeral home. I mean, it's not like a ninety five
(38:29):
year old man that lived a fulfilling life and he
died peacefully in his sleep. This is a person in
their twenties that died tragically already, and that could be
a horrific site in itself, seeing a properly embalmed person
laying in a casket, and then on top of it,
you see your loved one with bugs crawling all over
their face. It's disgusting. Yeah, So the I think it
(38:49):
was the mother in the lawsuit did mention that when
she went to the viewing that the room seemed to
be very warm, which what I mean really it shouldn't.
It shouldn't ever be, even if the body has been
properly refrigerated and embombed. But if it was, the maggots
don't happen right away, Like a fly has to first
(39:11):
land on the dead tissue, which they're attracted to because
of the decomposition, and then the eggs have to hatch.
It's a process. It's not something that just happened five
minutes prior to that viewing. So we've heard cases like
this before of where people are not put in a
proper refrigeration and that's what happens. I actually had an
(39:33):
autopsy once of the only pregnant person autopsy I did,
and the woman had died at a hospital in Philadelphia,
and we were doing the autopsia at another hospital in Philadelphia,
and there was a time where she left the one
hospital and went to the funeral home and was there
for twelve hours. But it was in the middle of
the dead hot summer heat wave in Philadelphia, and by
(39:55):
the time she got to us, she was decomposed. And
I'm just like, if she died at the hospit bittle
went to the funeral home, went in the fridge, and
then came to us and went and went in our fridge.
There's absolutely no way that she was green and bloated
at that point. So they did not put her in refrigeration,
which was a problem for our autopsy findings, honestly.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
And that's like a whole other story.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
But we've had stories on Mother Knows Death of people
not properly putting bodies into the refrigerator at a funeral home.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
And that's what happens. All right, Let's move on to
questions of the day. Every Friday at the at Mother
Knows Death, Instagram account, You guys can head to our
story and ask whatever you want. Can you explain how
amniotic fluid embolism is a diagnosis of exclusion? Is there
no clear sign that was the cause of death? So
that's a really interesting thing. We wrote about this.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
We did a celebrity death this section on nurse Hallie
that was at our New Grads. I'm sure lots of
you who are in the medical field were following her
on her social media and this was her cause of death,
So we did that pretty recently. But it's a very
so an amniotic embolism is when somehow the fetal tissue
(41:08):
gets into the maternal circulation and causes a reaction and
causes a mother to die shortly after either during childbirth
shortly after childbirth, And it's a very rare thing that happens,
but it happens, and it cannot really be predicted. There's
some risk factors that you should take into consideration, but
it's just something that kind of has to be dealt
(41:30):
with if it happens. So back in the day, they
would say that an amniotic fluid embolism could only be
diagnosed at autopsy and it would be at looking at
lung tissue under the microscope, and there you would see
fetal cells within the maternal circulation. But that's not really
the case anymore to say one hundred percent that that's
(41:53):
an amniotic embolism, because there have been cases where they've
done tissue, they've done autopsies, and they've seen tissue that
they could prove that there are fetal cells circulating in
the maternal circulation of people who have absolutely no complications
with childbirth. So that in itself is okay, yes, maybe
(42:16):
they had this, but it doesn't prove one hundred percent
that that's what killed them. It's called an amnionic fluid embolism,
and the word embolism means that cells are tissue or
whatever occurs in one part of the body and it
travels to another part of the body.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
They're starting to think that.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
That is that an amniotic fluid embolism probably isn't the
proper terminology, and they're thinking that it has to do
with those cells getting into the maternal circulation, but the
body actually having like an allergic reaction to those cells
that only happens in some people, and they're not really
sure why that happens. But the presentation is more of
(42:57):
what would happen if a person has a severe and
a flow reaction, like if they got stung by a
bee or something, rather than symptoms that you would see
with a true embolism. So when they say it's exclusionary,
it means that they looked at all of the other
things that it could have been and they said, Okay,
it definitely can't be this. And at autopsy we see
(43:17):
pulmonary edema, and we see the cells in the maternal circulation,
and we see hemorrhage.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Then with all that they could.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Say, Okay, it's it was an amniotic embolism was the
cause of death.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
All right, two Nicole, what's with parasites and cleanses? Did
you ever find parasites during an autops.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
So I cannot stand that shit like parasites are I
will say this in this country, it is rare to
get parasites. When you see it in this country a
lot of times, it's like it really is when people travel.
I mean you see them from time to time. But
like I've seen a couple parasitic effects working in a
(44:03):
large city hospital for years, and the only time I
saw it was in cytology specimens that would come down
before I was even a PA. I've never seen it
in an autopsy ever, that people that like all of
these videos are claiming that there's these parasite cleanses and stuff.
It's just it's just not true. And what are these
(44:26):
people's backgrounds that are even showing this, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Not it's like fake wellness influencers who eat clean and
do parasite cleanses but then put all this botox and
filler in their face.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
But some of them are showing pictures of the shit
that they say is coming out, and it's like, that's
not even what a parasite looks like. It looks like
it's like sloughed off mucosa or the lining of the
bow in some cases. But like when you see parasitic worms,
they look like worms. They don't look like a little
stringy things or whatever. And like, personally, I just think that,
(44:59):
and like any body that I've ever talked to all
thinks that this is just complete bullshit. Now I'll tell
you in the grossroom, I have some nasty, nasty cases
of parasitic infections, and all of them really, I would
say probably ninety nine percent of these cases are all
from other countries where people where there's not plumbing, like
(45:20):
things like that, where people are shitting out in public
and then they're they're eating from the soil with the
shit in it, and they're just transferring disease all over
the place. It's just it's just not happening where there's
plumbing and there's healthcare and everything. It's just not happening
as often. Not to say that it can't, because it
does certainly happen in America, but like the average person
(45:44):
that's just going about their day and stuff is not
having a parasitic infection. Listen, you would know if you
add a parasitic infection.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
These people getting these capsules that have the parasites in
them to take them from like strange websites on the internet.
What the what are you talk These influencers are doing
these parasitic cleanses. Where are they getting them from? Well,
it's just I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
It's just like some kind of herbs and stuff that
they're saying or cleansing the parasites.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
There's a whole other thing.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
And I don't know if that's what you're talking about,
that people actually take parasites to lose weight.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
No, that's what I'm talking about people who are taking
capsules with parasites in them, because that's that's like it's
different to your health.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
They're losing weight. No, that's that's like a whole different thing.
The cleanse is like telling people if you take this
herbal supplement which probably has like center or something in
it that caused you know that that they give you
when whenever you need to like a laxative effect. Right,
It'll like you could take a laxative and cleanse yourself
out if you really want to write, if you really
(46:42):
think that you have parasites and stuff, you could do that.
But these ones are labeled parasite cleansed, but like it
doesn't have anything in it that's different than anything else.
But sometimes people take supplements that are like tapeworm to
lose weight. You could and you could get them on
the internet somewhere.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Like No, that's what I was thinking this whole time
you're talking about was now taking there's there's people The
cleanse is to just like you thinking that that, like
you listening to these influencers that all have parasites and
if you take this, you'll get rid of your parasites too,
and then the other one is intentionally ingesting parasites so
(47:18):
you could lose weight. No, that's what I'm talking about
with the influencers. Influencers is that they're pushing taking parasites
to cleanse their body.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
I know, I know there's some of them that are
doing that too, but that's not what the typical parasite
cleanse is considered. Like there's influencers that take these parasite
cleanses and show piece like like pictures of their ship
and say like, look at all these worms that were
inside of me, and you're like, that's not worms, but okay, Like,
(47:47):
but I mean they go viral and people it's it's
a big business. But I mean you do you get
get it if you want, but like it's you don't
need to go take a doll Collex or something.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
All right, last question is for me, given everything we know,
were you a MySpace scene queen or more emo? And
did you go to warp Tour. I wanted to be
a scene queen, but I was too ugly, so I
just stop. I'm joking. I was obsessed with Audrey, Kitchen, Reckillery,
Jack Vanik, all of them. I had all their bracelets.
Of course I went to Warp Tour because that's where
(48:18):
I had to buy the bracelets. I had these amazing
Jeffree Star ones. I had the coolest Jeffrey Star hoodie ever. Yeah,
of course I went to Warp Tour. It's my first
concert ever. You brought me for the first time.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
When I was eleven, and it just kind of I
think that, like since I was with Maria during this
whole phase, which was terrible, by the way, I think
the scene Queen, like any kind of these looks that
you commit to are a lot of work. Like do
you ever watch a person that's like there's all these
(48:50):
videos that showed now like a really goth person that
they get a makeover and it makes them look like,
you know, they have like aenormy yeah, like enormy Right.
When I look at these in particular, like a goth
person like that or something, I'm like, that's a lot
of maintenance every day, and and man, Maria, well, I
am a fairly low maintenance person as far as like
(49:14):
I don't go get my hair done all the time.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
I get it cut once a year.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
I don't dye my hair, like I don't wear makeup
if I don't have to. The only maintenance I do
is like getting my nails done every three weeks, right,
Like I don't want to get dressed up every day
when you're a seeing queen. It was just like, wasn't it,
Like the really hot pink hair and the crazy eyeliner
and the crazy.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Makeup and the full outfit.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
It's just like a lot every day to commit to
something like that.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
It was like extremely teased out hair with like long
extensions called coon tails where you would like dyet to
look like raccoon, and then you had to wear the
crazy wing the eyeliner and bows and hello kitty barets.
Like it was.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
There was lots of the race like it's just like
too much to do every day, but you need to
go to school, and like I know a lot of
people like look at people and there's all sorts of things.
There's like the the emo seeing queens and the goth people.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
There's like whole groups of people.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
But I always look at those people and I'm like, damn,
like that, that's like dedication. It's a lot of work
to do that every single day, and I just don't,
like I'm just too lazy, Like I just want to
walk around and like flip flops and a T shirt
every day and like get dressed up on occasion.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
And I feel like.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Maria was the same way. Like I'm just kind of
like you want to wake up an hour and a
half before school every day to like do your hair
and makeup so you could like look like this every day.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
It's just a lot. Listen. I tried. It just wasn't
for me. I was obsessed with the look. It just
wasn't happening. I eventually settled on having you dye strips
of red in my hair, and then I wore my
Chemical Romance t shirts and kind of settled it there.
But I don't know if I've talked about this. I
had this like pivotal point in my childhood where you
were like you could get this build a bear, or
(50:58):
you could get this T shirt that says I love
boys who wear eyeliner, And that's what I was, like,
it's like growing up today or what it was from touring.
I'll never forget that day. It was like so funny,
it's so stupid.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, but that was like one hundred percent of
the scene of like what you were into. And I
just I don't know, it's just like far from what
I was into. But Maria was full on in it,
and I tried to support her in it by taking
her to like, well.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
You took me to Warp Tour in two thousand and six,
which was my first concert ever, and that's like where
I got introduced. I was already into a lot of
the music at that point, but that's where I got
introduced to, like Thursday, the casualties, like a bunch of
SKA bands and stuff. So that was a really cool experience,
and then I went every year throughout my teens. Basically,
my dream when I was a teenager was to be
a photographer on the Warp Tour, which, upon reflection and
(51:55):
my husband having worked at a music venue, would have
been a horrible idea because young girls like me get
preyed on by these predators and these bands, so it
probably would have been a horrible choice, but it worked out.
I would have liked it at the time, That's what
I said, because I'll be talking about a band I like,
and Ricky's like, that guy's a scumbag. He was banging
(52:16):
sixteen year olds in the back of the venue I
worked at, and I'm like, yeah, but I would have
thought that was the coolest.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
I would have been one of them, and that would
that would have been amazing.
Speaker 2 (52:24):
I would have thought I was special exactly. So upon reflection,
it's probably better it didn't work out that way. But
that was most of my youths, shooting shows every single weekend,
and Warped Tour was definitely a large part of it.
All right, Well, thank you guys so much. Don't forget
to buy tickets for our Atlanta meet and greet and
the Crime and Wine. And did you say that you
were going, because I know, I don't think I even
(52:46):
said I was going. Originally I didn't think I could
go to Atlanta, but just in the last week or two,
I am now going, So I will also be there
at the meet and greet in the Crime and Wine.
So tickets for that you could buy in the description
of this episode in the grocery or on our social
media head over to Apple or Spotify. Please leave us
a nice review or subscribe to our YouTube channel, and
(53:06):
if you have a story for us, please submit it
to stories at Mothernosdeath dot com.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, don't forget to mention that we're gonna have books
for sale.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, we're gonna have books for sale that I'll sign
for you, and maybe some special vouchers for the gross room. Sophie,
We'll say we'll see you guys soon. Saya.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Thank you for listening to Mother Nos Death. As a reminder,
my training is as a pathologist's assistant. I have a
master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.
I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed
or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of
a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social
(53:51):
media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based
on my experience working in pathology, so they can make
healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember
that science is changing every day, and the opinions expressed
in this episode are based on my knowledge of those
subjects at the time of publication. If you are having
(54:13):
a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a
medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent
care center, emergency room or hospital. Please rate, review, and
subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or
anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks
Hosts And Creators
Nicole Angemi
Maria Q. Kane
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