Revenge Amongst the Ruins w/ Michele Fitzgerald

Michele Fitzgerald joins Tori and Devyn to discuss her shocking vote from last week's episode, how she was able to ride with two separate alliances for so long this season and how it feels to be one of Tom Holland's favorite Survivor competitors. 

Head to Paramount+ to catch new episodes of The Challenge: USA 2 on Thursdays, and we'll see you back here right after for a look behind the scenes on MTV's Official Challenge Podcast.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'm Devin Simone and I'm Tory Deal and this is
MTV's official Challenge podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
It is the week of a shift in power.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I mean, looks like the vets are back on the
bottom and the rookies.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Are taking control. How do you feel about that, Toy God?

Speaker 3 (00:18):
I mean, there was a lot going on in this episode,
you know, and I do think it's really interesting watching
last week to this week.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
You can see two totally.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Different stories unfold, and I think that as we talk
about this episode, I think it is important to go
back to last week and see how the politics of
the game has flowed, so we can kind of talk
about the things that weren't really touched on, Because you're right,
there was like a major shift this week.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
I mean, ultimately it started with me walking into the
girls room trying to figure out, like, Okay, who throw
their box on me?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know, So it set us up for this interesting dynamic.
I had thought that I had been working with Desi
and Chanel. Obviously I found out I wasn't. They thought
they were working with Michelle, which now leads up to
this point where it's like, Okay, who's gonna win this
daily challenge? Because whoever does it's going to dictate the
next moves in the game.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
On a scale of one to ten, how mad were
you when you realize that they that Dusty's child had
betrayed you?

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Is it a sick thing to say that?

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I was happy? Wait? Why? Why?

Speaker 4 (01:12):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Because like you hear me say in the beginning of
the episode, I was like, if I win, I'm going
to throw them in and I was.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
I was.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
It would have given me the perfect reason to right.
And so I was trying to play this game diplomatically.
And if I would have had power, then I would
have now taken a shot because there was there wasn't.
I would have been firing back, so to speak. But
I didn't get that opportunity. You know, the challenge was
what the challenge was? I mean, it was called brain squeeze.
It doesn't even sound.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Fun, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
It definitely like it was hard.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
We had to run through those that temple, whatever you
want to call it, get all those puzzle pieces.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
We didn't know how many there were.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
We're all going at the same time, crawling under these
small little holes, breathing in dust. It was a really
intense challenge and I think that it was really clear,
which I didn't see at the time, and I think
a lot of the vets weren't paying attention to how
much closer the Survivor Alliance was kind of rebuilding after
the fall.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
Of the Shell.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, they were kind of like the Roman Empire, like
they were coming which, by the way side, no, I
don't know if you've heard about that study about how
guys think about the Roman Empire in a regular basis
so weird, but yes, apparently ask any guy you know
listeners as well, and then dm us and let us
know what you find. But it seems like guys think
about it a lot. But that's kind of what this
group was, and that they rebuilt and they were coming

(02:30):
back the Survivor Alliance and yeah, maybe you guys the
bets sort of took for granted just how powerful, especially
because the numbers are smaller now, So before we're having
just four people in a group where five people wasn't
enough to sway the house.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Now that's about half the house pretty.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Much, right, And I think, like you said, you know,
you have somebody like Johnny who you look at Johnny
Bananas in a game and you think, okay, he's got
it all figured out. When he makes a mistake and
everyone's kind of following him lead with seven puzzles, you
go along with it, and you know, the survivors are
now having to really put their brains on and really

(03:07):
think about They're calculating where they are in these tunnels.
Michaela's making sure she's going all the way down to
the opposite side so she can engage what's over there.
They're actually working as a collective unit r whereas the
Vets we were not. And it showed this episode, but
it also you know, goes to show like, listen, that's
what's great about this season.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
If the pendulum doesn't swing, who the hell wants to
watch it?

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah? I agree.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
This season is twist and turns at every angle, which
is so fascinating and fun to watch, and it's i'd
say one of the most impressive showings of rookies we've
ever seen. And I still don't know how the season ends,
but this is probably the first time where I really
feel like it really is anyone's game, you know what
I mean, Like, yes, sure Banana is still in the game,
You're still in the game, but who the heck knows

(03:49):
who's coming out on the top with that, because I mean, Chanelle,
Mikayla Dead, like, all of them.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Are excellent contenders.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Josh has proven himself a million and a half times
or not Josh, literally not Josh, sorry Josh.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Chris has proven himself a million and a half times
in this season.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, and so it's just, well, I love you, Josh,
but it's true, but Chris has gone down so many
times come back like it really is kind of anyone's game.
So we see Chris and Desi take the lead and
win this daily challenge. Then we go into the voting
where ultimately they decide Josh and Michelle, which I feel
like the Josh vote was kind of a surprise. It

(04:28):
seemed like to a lot of people in the house.
It was definitely surprised to me. Was it a surprise
to you?

Speaker 4 (04:32):
One hundred percent?

Speaker 3 (04:33):
I thought it definitely would have been Fussy like Fessi
or Banana.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Oh no, not Banance. I thought it would have been Fessy.
Feessey put him up twice.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, which is an easy reason to be like, I'm
gonna go back at you.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, And I think that, like, you know, there's a
lot of reasons why he could have voted for him.
I think that maybe when we talked to Michelle will
have more insight and he can dive into that a
little bit deeper. But I do think it was it
was a shocker to the house. Ultimately, it was a
shock to see Josh not break through a wall when
heard the news.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, talk about grow, I mean good on Josh.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
He did threaten that if he went in, he's gonna
come back and wants to throw himself in next week,
which I feel like is a little much.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Josh dial it back, but baby steps.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
We're taking baby steps in the right direction, so promise
to Josh for that. Ultimately we see it become a
girl's day, and I think it's interesting that, like you know,
Michayla was sort of politicking that it be a girl's day,
and Desy as well, even to Bananas and Bananas were
saying like that's what they already were wanting, was a

(05:34):
girl's day. I am curious how you manage not to
get any votes.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
This is this is the interesting part.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
And I think that we don't get to see it
yet because and this is kind of what I was
touching on in the very beginning when I introed how
different it is from last week because exactly you had
Mikayla in a position where she was absolutely gunning for me.
You have Mikayla in a position right now where she
could very easily seecret it'll be put my ball in
the hopper, and she wasn't. So she comes up to
me to the vote and lets me know that she

(06:03):
wants to make amends. And obviously you take everything with
a grain of salt. But at this point, I had
already talked to Michelle. I had known that she didn't
want to go up against Mikayla. It was very easy
for me to not put my ball on Mikayla. But
I was shocked because I was almost certain that they
were going to come back to me and throw it
my way. But I think when Desi did what she did,

(06:24):
Desi went out of her way. And you see multiple
interviews where I truly listen, like I could be biased
because she's talking about me, but I believe her.

Speaker 4 (06:31):
I think she has a heart of gold.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
I think she too.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Like I think it's very authentic, and I think when
she does this, it kind of pivots the way their
alliance is looking at the way they're playing the game
for a moment, and by Desi writing that wrong and
not throwing me under the bus, I think she kind
of set an example now for also Chanelle and Mikayla
to follow by hopefully building more trust with me again.
So I got a credit maybe DESI for this. Are

(06:56):
they six a Desi aside?

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Are they exceeding mainly Mikayla and Chanell in building trust
with you? Or you just counting down the days till
you can fire shots back?

Speaker 3 (07:08):
You know? I, like I said, if I would have
had the opportunity in this episode, I was definitely gonna
throw them in.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
One of them. I don't know who.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, it could have been either, it could have been
any of them, right, Yeah. But when I saw these
votes go down and I saw that I didn't get
any knowing now that we have one more daily challenge company, Yeah,
it did make me believe like, Okay, well listen, this
is as far as you can go in the game
before like we really don't take people to Yeah, yeah,

(07:37):
you know, you take.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
Them as far as you can.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
So it was kind of like this last little bit
of hope that I do feel like, looking back on
the season, even though we've had her ups and downs.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
In the very, very future, is there a possibility of
us working together? Yeah, i'd like to think.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
So why don't you work with strong people, you know,
who win things? And I'm not saying Cassie's not strong,
she wins things. I would love to work with Cassidy
in the future too, but mostly people who win daily challenges,
because then you can avoid elimination.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Right right, you know all about avoiding those eliminations. Let
me tell you.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, So I would say, I would say that the
trust is is that it's built.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
But it's building a little.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
I kind of feel like Mikayla realized she effed up
and then was I mean, sure, they all effed up,
but I feel like Michaela was the vocal one who
multiple times was really trying to like go after you
and then realize that much like a cockroach, you're a
little harder to get rid of, and therefore she was
backtracking Esmage. It's really interesting they didn't show that, especially
because we see her someone who stands so strong and

(08:34):
her votes, her opinions or whatever, that she was on
the back end kind of coming in and that her
game is a little messy, which.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Is the same thing she accused Michelle up.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
So then we get to the ultimately the voting, so
it's Josh Michelle the hopper selects Cassidy. I will say this,
this is the I felt bad for Cassidy. First of all,
y'all don't let up. And second of all, she has
been put down there so many times, Like my heart
goes out for poor Cassidy, but she manages to pull

(09:04):
out the wind from Michelle. I feel like Michelle was
already thinking of her Uber Eats order about halfway into
the elimination.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
She was just over it.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Had a bit sad to see Michelle go home, but
feeling it was tough to watch because I do like
watching Michelle's gameplay, but I felt good for Cassidy, who
it just feels like she keeps getting, you know, pushed
in and all of that stuff to see her come
out victorious like that. And it seems like maybe she's
making an ally with Michaela because MICHAELA was trying to

(09:34):
help her a lot in that elimination, and I know
it was mainly to kind of get Michelle out, but
I don't know, maybe Cassidy can parlay that into sort
of an alliance towards the end or something.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah, I mean Desy was able to do that with
Chris this time around, by Chris that there was more
it does happen.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
You do see alliance as rebuilt.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
I think ultimately it comes down to who's in power
with who, right, you know, yeah, because you're one person.
So I think that there's this This episode was a lot,
and honestly, rewatching it reminded me of how intense it
was living in the house at that time. Honestly from
from a competitor's perspective, we count the weeks that were there.
We know the deadline that we're going home, right, try

(10:15):
to figure out the schedule.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
We try to look at it.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
We have a pen we have, we draw our calendars
and we try to figure out how many it is
are we here?

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Well, we really thought this was the last.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Elimination, so when we found out we had another challenge.
And then obviously seeing everything Michelle was going through. You
see Josh having tears of this episode. Desy has tears
of episode, like I'm sure more people did and you
just don't see it. Bessy was definitely crying in the shower.
That's one hundred percent where he does. And I'm just kidding,
you know he's not, but.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Like, no, he probably he is.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
We know, bananas was you know, speaking of Before we
get to our interview with Michelle. You know, I got
to ask your gold star of the week and your
time out?

Speaker 4 (10:54):
Oh week, go okay.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
My gold star is for the camera guy for blurring
out the banana on Johnny's walk.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Up to voting. I thought that was so funny. I
laughed out loud.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
That was funny. That was very very cute. Who gets
your time out?

Speaker 4 (11:16):
My time out? Listen?

Speaker 3 (11:18):
It should it should be Michelle because obviously she had
a messy game, right So, but I'm biased because she
didn't vote for me, So there's no way I'm giving
my gold star to Michelle. I'm gonna give it to
Mikayla for airing out Michelle like that and also not
recognizing that she also has played a game in which

(11:40):
you know, she's pointing a lot of fingers at Michelle,
but she could be pointing a lot back at her.
I'm saying this as somebody who she's gone for multiple
times in this game, So I would have to just
go with Mikayla's gameplay in this one interesting.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I'd say my gold star would have to go towards
Doctor Desi. I like seeing her get a win. It
always wakes my heart hearing when she says she's been
doubting herself in the house, just because I look at
her as such an epic competitor with so much potential.
And I like the way that she tries to play
with integrity. I actually like the way that she kind
of owned up her f up. Everybody makes those mistakes,

(12:12):
but I love how she said, Look, I don't want
this game to take me out of my character. I
love for that, live for that. So my gold star
would be doctor Desi.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
And then my time out of the week. You know,
that's tough. I'd probably say it has to go to.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Bananas only because this is one one he left a
banana appeal on the floor pick up your garbage, but
also but also because he knows better. Like you've done
this so many times, you know better, and you really
just kind of let part of your game be dependent
on this person who you still are figuring out. You

(12:53):
don't actually know that well. And so I was surprised
that he did that. And so I'd have to give him.
Am I really mad or is not? But I feel
like to no better is to do better Nanner's and
you know that's not the person to trust.

Speaker 4 (13:07):
I think your goal star and your timeout are way
better than mine. So let's go with yours.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
We can do.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
It's not a this is not an elimination called hot
wheel toy. I can't even imagine. I can't And it
was raining, I cannot even imagine. I do not blame
Michelle one bit, one bit, but it was interesting to watch.
This whole episode is interesting to watch and the way
it gets kind of messy, and I feel like it's
just gonna get messier. But why don't we take a

(13:37):
pause and hear from the Queen of messiness herself. I'm
talking about Michelle Fitzgerald. We have an exclusive interview with her.
We're gonna find out about her connection to Tom holland,
we are going to find out about where she stands
with some of the castmates now and what was going
through her head this season, as well as some behind

(13:57):
the scenes. And you were not gonna want to miss
this at all. We're getting that much closer to the
final y'all, So grab a snack, some treats. Whatever, Buckle
up because we have Michelle Fitzgerald coming up next. She

(14:19):
is a two time Survivor finalist and winner, four time Challenger,
the Queen of the Michelle Down, and someone who is
just fun to watch and talk to you all around.
Please give it up for Michelle Fitzgerald. Woo Welcome Michelle.

(14:40):
We're so happy to have you here.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (14:42):
I'm so excited to be here again. Always a pleasure
to join you girls. Good.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
How are you feeling because you came in nervous when
we first jumped on to record this episode, you were
giving a nervous energy around.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
I don't know whether it was being on the podcast
or just how your game has played out this season,
But what exactly what were you most nervous about or
what are you nervous about?

Speaker 6 (15:08):
I still feel nervous even right now talking about anything
and any reason, any decision ever in my life, I'm nervous.
So yeah, I mean, I just I just love to
light myself on fire and watch it all. Yeah, this
should probably just be on par with that, So I

(15:30):
assume this is beyond brand.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, since you're talking about letting yourself on fire, now,
this is a stretch what I'm trying to connect to here,
But that means you're hot, right, And who else thinks
you're hot, or at least thinks your gameplay is Tom Holland. Yes,
how does it feel to be Tom Holland's favorite Survivor competitor?

Speaker 6 (15:49):
I peeked out when I heard that.

Speaker 5 (15:52):
I literally went around.

Speaker 6 (15:53):
I was filming when I found that out for thirty nine,
and I ran around to every sale person using no
pieces of information when you're in that house. So having
something like that to brag that, I went up to
everybody like ten times over, and I was like, guys,
Tom Holland as a fan, you know, like Sendaya's boyfriend,
you know, Spider.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
Man, you know the guy. I was like, I don't
care if everybody else hates me. Tom Holland loves me, Dude,
that's a fact.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
And I think that that like, and I can't even
I know what it's like to be in the house
and have literally nothing to talk about and have it
be super stressful. Obviously we got a glimpse of that
with this entire episode. So let's just go back to
the beginning of your season this time around. Obviously, you
were in a very blessed position, which you knew was

(16:40):
eventually going to come with having to pick a side. So,
looking back on it all, did you think it was
going to last as long as it did, that you'd
be able to ride both alliances?

Speaker 6 (16:53):
To be honest, No, I was surprised that it lasted
as long as it did. And there was definitely moments
in middle, specifically surrounding like around when West was under
in the hot seat, where it was kind of like,
you know, Corey was like, West is really saying, like,
you have to pick.

Speaker 5 (17:10):
A side, choose side.

Speaker 6 (17:11):
I'm like, if they feel that I need to pick
a side right now, then they're not the side for
me because the other side isn't asking me to pick
a side. So I was kind of just like the
fact that it all went from like targeting the vets
and then a lot of the vets that I didn't
want to work with left, and the Vets that I
did want to work with stayed, and then it kind
of shifted to this polarization between the survivor and Big Brother.

Speaker 5 (17:34):
It was like perfect timing, shifting attention.

Speaker 6 (17:36):
Off of you guys that I wanted to work with
onto people who I wasn't working with so like the
way that the game kind of shuffled up up always
just happened to sort of be to my advantage. And
then as we see, when I really had to like
figure it out, I didn't figure it out. I couldn't
figure it out, and so I got myself in the
hot seat.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
So I mean, but was that you not figuring it out?

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I feel like at that point it was sort of
you had a fifty to fifty chance, right because you
did have to pick a side, so it could have
either worked in your favor or it didn't. It wasn't
so much of as messy at that point as much as, like,
you know, you kind of flip a coin and you
gotta go with whichever direction you go.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
But and I love the overview you just gave, but
we really.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Want to know how the hell did you manage to
get it to go so long? Like real, what were
you telling people in the back office, in the back
room in the dungeon, as we've heard about to manage
because everyone, it seems at a point everyone realized that
you were playing both sides, and yet no one seemed
to really be coming at you for it that much.

(18:44):
And they say that you were, you know, really good
at maneuvering you know, emotions and reading people and all
of that. Like, what are say, even two like secret
ingredients to the Michelle gameplay of managing to keep both
sides off your back for so long.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
Well, I think to a degree, Like I know with Toy,
like a lot of the times I was really like,
I have these relationships with Survivor.

Speaker 5 (19:12):
I'm not trying to hide that, so like I.

Speaker 6 (19:14):
Think just being yeah, really honest about the fact that,
like when Survivors would ask me who my number one
alliance was, like I pretty much was open about the
fact that it was Bessie for the guys and for
the girls, I was just kind of like, I don't,
I don't really know, so like I never really pretended
that I wasn't And I think that for the most part,

(19:34):
it was also to Survivor and the Vet's advantage to
have me there still, So I think it wasn't really
a much me maneuvering so much as like I could
keep survive most of Survivor's name out of the hot
seat with the Vets, and I could keep the Vet's
name sort of out of Survivor's mouth. So I was
kind of doing playing that middle ground where everybody sought

(19:55):
to be advantageous to be working with me, And I
think that that was Yeah, I think that that's kind
of the sweet spot. And I wasn't really a threat
to anybody, Clearly, I'm not the most io, the most physically,
like you know, big competitors, So I think everybody was
just kind of like, yeah, you know what, she's not
bothering anyone, just let her go do her thing.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
So and also, like we have known you, or at least
a lot of us have known you for so long, right,
Like we've played multiple seasons with you, we know your heart,
we've kind of seen the ups and downs of your
gameplay over years, at least the challenge Vets have. So
do you think, like, if you could go back to
day one and you had to make the decision of
which alliance you would have worked with, would it have
been the Vets because you would have known us, or

(20:39):
do you think that you would have found us much
more of a threat and decided to stick with Survivor
early on?

Speaker 5 (20:44):
I honestly don't know.

Speaker 6 (20:46):
I think that why I found myself in such a
tricky situation is because I do know you guys, so
I feel I have a more personal relationship with you guys.
I've lived with every single one of the vets before,
with the exception of Wesh and Johnnah. So I've never
met most of these survivors before, and if I have,
it's been in passing at maybe one event or I've

(21:07):
heard their names. But I have a responsibility, and like
how I feel is that I have a responsibility to
the Survivor community as a whole. I've went into the
Challenge world and a lot of these people, like I
wanted to handhle them through the process of entering this
new realm for them, and I wanted to make sure
that it was a good experience and that they did
last as long as they could. So I was really

(21:32):
torn between like my actual friends that I felt, and
then also like this community that I've cultivated for almost.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
Ten years of my life, which is the Survivor community.

Speaker 6 (21:41):
You know, a lot of them have watched me play,
looked up to me, have been rookies in the most
recent season. So like, I was really kind of torn
between both, and I didn't know the right answer.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
In three words, Michelle, how would you describe your gameplay.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
I would say, emotional, social, and.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Adaptable, okay, and walk us through not voting for Tory
lest So ultimately, when your feet were kind of held
to the firing you, you know, the numbers of dwindled
down in this game, you do kind of have to
make a choice, and you choose not to vote for Tori,
knowing that that's going to kind of show your hand,
right or you're kind of like drawing a line in

(22:29):
the sand with the Survivor girls. Can you share with
us your thought process behind that decision.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
There were so many reasons that I made that decision. Honestly,
it wasn't as simple as like, oh, like one singular
thing like of course I have a relationship with Tori,
and that you know, the entire game, I never once
had to question her loyalty at any point to me,
and I really really loved that and appreciated that and
wanted to give it back. Same with Cassidy, to be

(22:58):
perfectly honest, And if I had nominated Toy, it would
have been also a shot at Cassidy. So that was,
you know, one portion of my thinking. Also, simultaneously, a
lot of the guys that I had been working with
felt like they needed it to be a guy's day.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
They really wanted that, and.

Speaker 6 (23:15):
So I was kind of letting that also influence my
decision making. And what really isn't seen is that when
Michaela won last episode, she was really trying to throw
any girl like in the hot seat so that it
would be a girl's day. And I felt like she
was not getting any of the heat that you know
that comes with that.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
She was throwing the bus, Assi ender, the bus, whatever.

Speaker 6 (23:38):
So she like to me, it was almost just an
active rebellion against what Mikhayela wanted.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
When you said she was throwing Desi under the bus,
Chanelle into the bus, how is Michaela throwing them under
the bus the week prior.

Speaker 6 (23:50):
When she won, Like the week prior when she had
won her her goal was to get toy as the
main vote, right, and then wanted to get a strong
woman out right. So she went up to them and
was like, I wanted it to be toy so I
can get a shan person out And Dessie and Schanelle
are like, okay, that's me, And for me, I was like, oh,
like okay, they just let Mikayla get away with just whatever.

(24:12):
McKayle get away with and she's again pitching another girl's week.
For me, it was like an act of rebellion, Like
you don't get to navigate, you don't get to dictate
when this girl's recap and how it happens goes in.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
So I just like, I don't know, I play emotional.
I can't help it. So it's kind of all of
those things conjoined.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
And ultimately it just came to a point in the game,
like you made a decision and you look at the picture,
and if any of the other guys won but Chris,
you would have been found yeah, and they probably would
have held your vote out and your name out of
the vote and you would have been safe. But it
was literally the combination of Desi and Chris winning that
put you in this predicament because you had to make

(24:52):
a risky decision which way are you going to fall?
And you're assuming that one of the other guys that
you're working with are going.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
To win, and they didn't. So it's just a gamble
and it just happened to not work in your favor.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
So as much as like, I know how and I
understand how it can be emotional to like make decisions
in this game, but also like you do it and
you just kind of got to stick with it because
you never know who's going to win the next week,
and you just kind of hope the person that you
aligned with does and other than that, there's really not
much you can do. But how important do you think
it is to have alliances in this game and specifically

(25:23):
in this week? Like were you setting yourself up now
that you've crossed your old alliance? Were you just fully
ready to ride with the Vets from here on out?

Speaker 5 (25:31):
I think that I don't know.

Speaker 6 (25:34):
I honestly it's hard for me to put myself back
in that place, I think, so.

Speaker 5 (25:41):
I think for me, it was kind of like we're
right near, We're.

Speaker 6 (25:44):
Right tiptoeing near the edge of yeah, like this final, and.

Speaker 5 (25:49):
So it was kind of like I just, I honestly
was just thinking, like how the hell can I scrap
my way there?

Speaker 6 (25:55):
And how can I kisses as few people off as
possible while doing it?

Speaker 5 (25:59):
And I I just was.

Speaker 6 (26:01):
Playing with my gut and my intuition and trying to
go with that as much as possible. And like sometimes
it's like you can you can try to justify the
decisions that you make in this game, or all that
you want and say that there's strategic or whatever it is.
But sometimes it's just your gut guiding you and leading you,
and it might just be as simple as that, you know,
And that's kind of how I felt with protecting you,
with protecting Cassidy, with voting in Chris, who had said

(26:23):
my name prior a few episodes before.

Speaker 5 (26:25):
So I was going with my gut.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Why did you ultimately decide?

Speaker 2 (26:30):
I mean, I think I know why you did it,
but I'm just curious for confirmation. Why did you decide
to come clean to the other girls and tell them
you didn't vote for Tori after we saw last week's elimination,
Because it looks like you didn't tell them beforehand, but
once that elimination occurred, you went back into the house
and shared with them what happened. Why did you do that?

Speaker 5 (26:50):
I actually did tell them beforehand.

Speaker 6 (26:52):
Oh really, yes, I had told them as soon as
I had voted, So I told them like, well, it
wasn't before the And that was the real issue is
that I do think that if I had told them
prior to the vote, potentially they could have moved off
of Tory and onto Chris and I'm finding this out
kind of like later, and so I think that that's
why they were so hurt. But I could have waited

(27:14):
until after I had made that vote all ready to
tell them, and then Tory had entered the room, and
I was like, I don't want to throw them further
under the bus. So what also wasn't shown is me
being like Toy, it could have been anybody of us.
Any one of us did it, even though Tory knew
that I didn't do it. It was just like I
really I took a shovel and I just like dug
my own grave.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
And I just Toy's making a face. Toy's making me
because that wait what.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
I was flabbergasted. When I walked to the room, I
was for sure.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
I was like it was definitely dozy and shout out
and Michelle looks at me and she goes it was me,
and I go what, Like I at that point in
time was I truly felt blindsided that I'm like, Okay,
what are you talking about.

Speaker 4 (27:55):
I was like, that's the weirdest shit I've ever heard, Michelle.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
You just told me that these girls are trying two
that are probably gonna say my name and then you're
the one who did it. So eventually she came out
because she felt so bad that she basically.

Speaker 4 (28:07):
Corral Desi and Chanell to vote for me and then didn't.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
So then she tried to take the heat for it,
but it was just such a bizarre conversation, and then
Desi was like, let me just like fess up, you know,
I actually did, and then that's kind of when the
water works started happening from Desi, which you know, obviously,
I think she's as much as people have used tears
in this game to you know, seek, I don't know,
empathy and pity. I also think that it's very authentic

(28:30):
because the game is very stressful, right, So I took
it as face value.

Speaker 4 (28:34):
Michelle, I thought your tears were real. I thought Desi's
were real. Like, it's such an emotional game and people
don't give enough people credit for crying. Here we saw
three people cry this episode, like it's a lot.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Yeah, this point in the game, it felt like a lot.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I mean, Michelle, it sounds like you were doing a lot.
So you okay, Like just so I'm clear, all right,
So you don't vote Tori in because you decide.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Okay, that's a smarter move. You have to kind of
make a decision. Cool.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Then you tell the girls right after you make the vote,
but before the elimination that you tell the girls, being
what I referred to as Destney's child, but Chanelle, Mikayla,
and Desie, that you didn't vote the way they expected
you to write, that you didn't vote Tori in. Then
afterwards you tell Tory you were the one who voted
her in, and you tell her that in front of

(29:19):
the other girls because you're trying to take the heat off.
And then that's just the Michelle you were doing a lot.

Speaker 6 (29:25):
Desi had said that she told Tory that she didn't
vote her, and so Desie to then take further heat
for backtracking on that, and so I will take the
key as the.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
Person who votes.

Speaker 5 (29:37):
But then it was like when we're sitting in this room,
it was like this is just too messy.

Speaker 6 (29:41):
Let's just be honest, and like I'll also my part
in it, which my part is that I should have
told them sooner.

Speaker 5 (29:48):
So like MESSI like, that's what I mean.

Speaker 6 (29:51):
Listen, I don't know if it's Michelle down or if
it's Messchelle or what.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
The fuck it is? But I just can't stop like
figure out it's.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
That I I have a lot of guilt, Like I
think that that's why I end up crying a lot
of times, Like if I just owned the things that
I did. This is what I saw on Rider Dies too,
is that when I make a decision, I need to
just stand on that, and it always ends up that
I just like don't have the backbone to do that
for some reason.

Speaker 5 (30:16):
And so I'm a work in progress.

Speaker 6 (30:18):
But yeah, ultimately I was not that I didn't that
I didn't vote to it, like I would not have
wanted to send her to say her name. Chris said,
wronged me, and so I made the right decision for me,
and that should be simple enough.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Like can I just say, watching you from Rider Dies
to now, I do think we see a stronger, more
secure Michelle in standing in her decisions and her choices,
both in their interview, which you've been very entertaining in
your talking heads Love, but also in the choices you've
made so far, Like, yes, this episode was Messi's hail,
but other than that, I feel like, compared to Writer

(30:50):
or Dies, where it felt kind of hard to follow
your thought process some of the time, like it was
really like, oh, she's making this harder for it, Like
it just didn't add up here. I feel like we
saw a much more strategic you know, whether you agreed
with it or not, Michelle, in a way that worked
well for you up until I mean, look how far
you made it.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
So if your point was.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
To try and grow and own your decisions more, I
definitely feel like as a viewer, we see that, you know,
in this season more than the last.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
So go ahead, girl, give yourself a pat on the bat,
because it's just a.

Speaker 6 (31:22):
Little bit easier when you're also playing like solo, like
having Jay as I was definitely right. We like playing
in a pair is a lot you have to take
into their their feelings, their perceptions there, whatever, so you're
kind of push and pull and compromise like marriage. So
this can kind of like do my own thing, make
the decisions that I feel like are good for me,

(31:43):
and then kind of glide in and out.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
And that's what I did.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
And I think that, like this is what your fourth
TV show technically or fifth which one.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
Fifth?

Speaker 4 (31:56):
Yeah, and like think about that, like there's so many
players who've been playing for me.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
This is like my eleventh Like, I mean, obviously you
saw me in Rider Di was an absolute Also I
was having Michelle Downs on Ride or Die, you know,
like we all have those moments when we when we
lose it. But I definitely think like Devin was saying,
your trajectory has gone up and your ability to cope
with really.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Difficult political situations has gotten a lot better.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
So it makes me wonder do you feel like the
Michelle Down phrase is a fair phrase?

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Like do you hate the nickname?

Speaker 5 (32:26):
Do you do?

Speaker 3 (32:27):
You?

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Do you like it?

Speaker 4 (32:28):
Where do you? Where are you at with it?

Speaker 5 (32:32):
Well?

Speaker 6 (32:32):
I don't think anybody likes to be labeled as somebody
who has melt down.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
But you know a horse that has stripes, this a zebra,
Like you have to call it a zebra. So it's
just what it is.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Turn it into merch Michelle.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I don't know why there's not already a shopify www
dot Michelle Down does. I don't know why there aren't
hats and T shirts and all the things, because own
it like absolutely, Plus you can send one to Tom.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Holland and Sindaya.

Speaker 5 (33:03):
So I.

Speaker 6 (33:05):
I don't know what you're waiting on iber version of
me where he thinks that I'm put together and that
I know what I'm doing.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
I don't like he doesn't need to know.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
About but he even actually like say that did he
in an interview?

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Like maybe he likes the messy because look, the messy
kind of works in a way, like it's both entertaining
but it is hard to follow, which you know, there's
some animals in the wild where that is their strategy
is just to like confuse.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
You said, a zebra a horse with stripes. A zebra
looks a weird analogy.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
I'm trying to kind of true, but you know that's
that's their mode of survivals. The stripes are supposed to
confuse their predators, like they don't really recognize or know
what's going on. They don't know the front from the back,
and then that's how they stay safe. So see, like,
look at you down, you're confusing, Look at that.

Speaker 6 (33:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
Nine to four Perry hosting the podcast.

Speaker 5 (33:53):
Wow you've watched.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
I just in Africa for our honeymoon. So I listened
to all the fun facts they gave me. Oof, we
are getting into it all right.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
We have to take a quick break, but we'll be
right back after this.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Let's talk a little bit about this week's challenge you guys,
because it was so interesting. The first thing I want
to know is approximately how long do you think you
guys had to run? Like how many miles? Because everyone
seemed pretty gassed by the end. So how long of
a run or how far do you guys think that was.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
I mean, we were definitely running NonStop for at least
forty minutes, maybe forty five, And so if I'm going
at the pace that I think that we're going, it
had to be at least three and a half four
miles because there was many times when we were crawling.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
You know, we weren't just running, we were crawling through
the tunnels.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
This show, this.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
Episode didn't really do the holes justice we were so
it was terrifying.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
And I loved that you said, Michelle, for this isn't
great for somebody with claustrophobia, it wasn't great.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
For somebody without it. I was, like I said, about
to crumble on our head. This is an ancient cathedral
with like God only knows what's happening here.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
For sure, there was corpse down there and it was brutal.
It must have been three or four miles. But I
don't know, Michelle, what do you think? And you would
you label this as the hardest challenge of the season.

Speaker 5 (35:16):
Yes, I was easy.

Speaker 6 (35:18):
I was like, you know, I've hit a few rumble classes,
like I jog every once in a while, do pilates, Okay,
I was very well prepared, Like, honey, Ricardia needs to
lift a little bit. I was like sitting there, like, okay,
so this is where I die. I don't know if
we don't even mesm already.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
In the crypt. I was like, just leave me here,
leave me here, continue on without me. This game is
already I'm already going under anyways.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
So well, I mean, listen, it was tough, and I
think the hardest part about it was obviously the puzzle pieces,
because you're pushing so hard to get six. Everyone thinks
they're six, and then there's a seventh and then.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
A like it was just nute.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Was Johnny naive to believe Mikayla And were you guys
talking amongst yourselves because we see that scene where Mikayla
tells Johnny, oh, you know, there's no more whatever, there's seven,
but we didn't really see like the vets A lines
or anyone else were you all kind of communicating with
one another around how many pieces there were or what
was going on.

Speaker 4 (36:22):
Well, I think that everybody was on their own path.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Everyone was running at different paces, so you were kind
of like with people that when you were with them,
And and honestly the only person that I was you
saw me like with Chanelle the entire time pretty much.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
And I asked her as she went down. I was like,
are there three down there? Or two? Are there two
down there that long tunnel?

Speaker 3 (36:40):
And she told me three, But same way, I was like,
So she didn't lie to me the way Michaela lied
to Johnny.

Speaker 4 (36:45):
But I'm like, is she lie to me right now?

Speaker 3 (36:47):
So I am surprised that Johnny didn't question it because
I then went back and referenced that, oh, so you
knew there's so wait, so some of you guys did
find out in real time that there were eight pieces,
So then who was the let you know, was Johnny
one of the last ones to find out about it?

Speaker 1 (37:02):
He was okay, yes, okay.

Speaker 6 (37:04):
I had went all the way down that tunnel to
get my piece, and I was the last girl, And
I was like, what the hell are these bags still
down here? Like they're all a building, so I like
looked at the colors and I came up and I
was like, who's yellow, who's pink, Who's whatever. I was like,
y'all saw have bags all the way down, and then
that's when they exprinted like you're yellow. I just saw

(37:27):
your bed and you do not have all of your pieces.
So at that point it was too late. I mean,
Christ's way I had anyways, So yeah, the girls were
a little bit more even.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
I would say, yeah we were because Mikayla, myself and
Desi all had our pieces and we were all calling
for checks.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, and what was the trick to organize? Because it
looked like just in blocks?

Speaker 4 (37:47):
What exactly just inches?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Basically like the slots were in different portions of the block,
so you would put it on and if half of
the lip hung over, then it wasn't a correct match.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
So it was basically trial and error for every single piece.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
I'm almost possible that there was a strategy. I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 6 (38:04):
That I don't know why I'm explaining this, but the
proms at the bottom needed to there needed to be proms,
not open lips, so you can kind of dictate like
where the way at least the puzzle case was supposed
to like fit in, so there.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
Was a hack to it. It's just that it just
took really look, it just was like kind of bulky,
weird pieces.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, they were heavy, Yeah, and we were absolutely gasped.
I do think that Johnny was naive to believe Mikhaela
though out of.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Like all his experience, and obviously they were trying to
work together, but like you know, come on, dude, you're
playing the game. Everyone's competing, people are trying to throw
each other off, like everyone's got a motive.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
In this game.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
And Mikayla is super strategic.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
I mean, we are seeing that, I hope moving forward,
everyone's side eyes her, not in a bad way, but
like she is showing that she is very smart, she's
very strategic, and she will do like we've talked about before, toy,
she will switch into sort of a logical mode where
it doesn't matter if your friends or how close. Someone

(39:08):
else on this podcast, whose middle name is Patricia, sometimes
gets into a similar mode where they they will just
do whatever, you know, they feel works in the game,
and Mikayla is one of them.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
And so yeah, Mikayla's given you quote unquote tips.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I would side eye that tip because unless it benefits
her directly, she's probably not giving you advice that's gonna
give you, you know, an edge.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Are you know, arguably smart?

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Are you referring to when Michelle and I were in
Spelllunkers and I didn't give her the code for time?

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Absolutely, when Tory slunk out of the water, she just
like stepped back slowly when she figured out what the
cost secret word was and then just disappeared in the water,
even though she promised you all that she would help
share the answer.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Michelle, would you like to speak on that for a moment?
How did you.

Speaker 6 (39:59):
Feel in I did not care about the second portion
of the puzzle because then I knew if she told
me it would have been a.

Speaker 5 (40:04):
Foot race, and I knew that. I think me and
Tory are pretty both like even the.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Master, Michelle is a way better swimmer than me. She's
given herself, She's given me way too much credit. She's
a way better swimmer.

Speaker 5 (40:16):
You know, you already had advantage. She could have just
yelled back from that, you know dance. Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 6 (40:25):
I think things personally in the game, which is so
counter intuitive to it seems that everybody takes me personally when.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I do them, but I never Okay, So speaking of
not taking things personally, when you do start to go
into the Michelle down, which I hope you don't actually
think that name is just so brilliant, I'm serious. If
you do not put out a T shirt and quickly
and put a copyright on that Michelle, you are missing
out passive income.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
It's easy to do.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
But when you and Michayla start to get into it,
tell us about the feelings real time that moment, and
then where where do you all stand today? Now?

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Like, did you take none of that personally? Because it
seemed like it got pretty heated.

Speaker 5 (41:08):
So it's interesting because that was a much much longer
fight than what was shown.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
How So give us some behind the scenes.

Speaker 5 (41:16):
What do you seemed like?

Speaker 6 (41:18):
You know, I was the one like kind of floundering
through the conversation, but there was also a lot being
exposed on the other side of things ways that I
felt that Mikayla was playing the game shady, So it
was like, you know, she just has her gun pointed
at me that I'm the shady when I'm like, you're
doing the same exact thing. Our guns are pointed at
each other, like, you know, I think Mikayla has this

(41:42):
oftentimes has this way of being like my way is
the right way, and it's like, Mikayla, there's a lot
of right ways.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
There's a lot of ways to play this game.

Speaker 6 (41:51):
And you know, she can do something and it's no
fault on her, but if somebody else does it, then
we're all at fault.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
And I think it's I don't know.

Speaker 6 (42:01):
This is my second time playing with Mikayla. I find
her to be difficult for me personally to play with,
and I think she finds me to be.

Speaker 5 (42:06):
Difficult to play with. She's very very logical and I'm
very very emotional, and that's always.

Speaker 6 (42:12):
Been We had Desie and Chanelle a lot of times
as the middleman between navigating conversations between me and her.
We always wanted the same thing, but we go about
it two separate ways. She doesn't like the way I move.
I don't necessarily like the way that she moves. You know,
she for me, she'll be like, oh, Michelle, somebody said
your name. Be careful, people are somebody said your name.

(42:33):
I'm like, oh my god, who said my name? Tell
me so I could be wary of them, so I
don't share for me. She's like, no, no, no, that's
the information. I'm not going to tell you who's It's
like she gives me a little bit, but not the thing,
and that's always infuriating to me. And she gets infuriated
with me because I play emotionally and she's like shut
those off.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
So like we bicker in how you.

Speaker 6 (42:53):
Know, we were working together this entire game and we
fought basically the whole way through the season up until
what it is exploded.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
So so bosth of you guys are messy. Basically you
guys are messy, but in different ways.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Like you guys cause a little bit of chaos, but
with maybe different motives behind it or in different ways.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
Really beneficial for me and her and our relationship. Listen,
we want to be friends.

Speaker 6 (43:19):
We are friends, but it's very very difficult when you're
two you're such different people to figure out that communication gap.
And you know, we had Tiffany, we had Chanel, we
had Desi. A lot of the times if I had
a problem or she had a problem, we'd pull them
in to actually like decode what the other one is yeah,

(43:40):
and that's not easy to work with somebody like that.
And you know, she felt like I was like playing
shady and I felt like I was constantly having to
like battle to make her believe that I could be trustworthy.
And it's like neither one are a good combination to
be an alliance together. So yeah, it was not easy

(44:01):
and it just was bound book Eventually, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Think ultimately, like you both have strong views on the game,
and I think that your views actually come off more
subtle even though they're just as strong. You know, how
you want to work with people and the emotional aspect
that you play with it gets you far. But ultimately,
like you said, yes, it's an obvious clash, Like her
views are very loud, She's very opinionated, and she tries

(44:25):
to make big strategic movies, which is amazing to watch.
Like obviously I've been on the shit end of it
for multiple times now, but as a viewer, you're like, Wow,
somebody really goes out there with a lot of tenacity
to go out there and say, fuck this, I want
to do this.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
I'm inspired, Like, I don't know if it would be
good for my political game.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
I think I kind of have to ride with the
way you play, Michelle, but like it is inspiring to
see someone just go out there and say, fuck it,
I'm gonna do whatever I want. But I understand why
you play the way you play, because you try to
take everybody's emotions into consideration.

Speaker 4 (44:54):
So it makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
And I know that you had to go up against
Cassidy in this episode and you guys were good friends.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Talk to us.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
Why you think she got so many votes in the
hopper this time?

Speaker 6 (45:07):
Well, I think people most people wanted to give me
the best shot. I think that they felt that Cassidy
was that for me, and it was definitely difficult. I
felt like I didn't want to go again. At this point,
I wouldn't have wanted to go against anybody, so there
was really no great scenario. I tried to make sure
that I wasn't like politicking a certain name, but I

(45:30):
think a lot of people wanted to do me a
favor and knew that Cassidy would be my best option
as somebody that they thought I could be, And so yeah,
that's how it ended up. But Cassidy prior to this
has definitely played very like you know, she has been
just like Mikayla, pretty bold and fearless and a lot
of her decision making and so that's pissed people off.

(45:52):
It makes people really like they don't really mind saying
your name when you pissed half the house off.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
So I think it's kind of a combo plotter book
those things.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Right, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Did you think that there was any possibility that, like
Chris and DESI would have thrown Cassidy and when they
won the challenge or were you dead set that it
was going to be you?

Speaker 6 (46:09):
I knew for sure, like for sure, like I knew
the sky is blue like water as wet.

Speaker 5 (46:17):
I knew I was willing to be nominated.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
And it was.

Speaker 6 (46:21):
Honestly, like really such a shame to me because I
felt like I had burned a bridge with my friends
and I felt like I hurt them, and I felt
it was personal, and that's like, you know, it's it's
not you never want to be voted in, but the
fact that I felt like I got voted in.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
Because I heard people was like kind of worse. Yeah,
But I felt also there was part of me that
was like, Okay, Michelle, you kind of deserved this. So
just like own it and be okay with it and
get through it.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
I think there's a lot of power in that.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, why do you guys think that Chris didn't vote
for FESSI?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
I feel like I feel like we heard a possible
theory from the guys. But just being in the house,
were you shocked that Chris didn't vote for FESSI? And
you know what do you think his initial reasoning was.

Speaker 6 (47:11):
I personally think that it was because people, in my opinion,
people would have been semi more likely to make it
a guy's day had it been FESSI. I think some
people could have flipped the script. Whereas people knew that
so many people were trying to protect Josh that by

(47:31):
Josh being the main vote, there was like basically zero
percent chance that it.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
Was going to be a guy's day.

Speaker 6 (47:38):
It's interesting that as like a final shot at FESSI,
you shoot at Bessie, then who knows, maybe some people
will come in and be like, maybe it is a
good idea to vote Cori or Bananas and just snipe
out of Bay. Yeah, I think Bessie is the main vote.

Speaker 5 (47:51):
You never know. Yeah, so I thought that could be
part of.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
It, huh. I neverould have thought that Tory, what about you?
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (47:57):
I think it was a little bit more personal than strategic.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
I think that Chris was in the same bedroom as Corey,
and I think he wanted to be boys with them
the entire season.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
I think this is kind of his like, hey, guys,
like be my friend. Honestly, really, yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
I mean, I think Chris was kind of desperate for friends,
and like he would fall asleep looking at FESSI, and
I think that like when you stop it, that get away,
you know what I mean, But just like you know,
when you close your eyes next to somebody in a
house where you feel lonely, you start to trauma bond
with them.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
And I think they're I think he was trying to
build a friendship.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
I think ultimately it was I mean, card we heard
Corey reference, which I thought was interesting and was sort
of my initial thought process, which is like, look, Josh
hasn't won a daily this whole season, and so with
throwing FESSI in, there's a good chance he may come back,
or there's a good chance he may come back and
then win a daily next week and then go after you.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Where it was sort of like, look.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
If Josh does, if it is a guy's day, Josh
does happen to come back, what are the odds of
Josh coming back and winning a daily the following week
and therefore having power? Which I thought, Oh, okay that
you know, that definitely makes sense that he felt like
maybe it was the less risky move, But I think I.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Like your theory just wanting to be bvffs.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
I think so, No, it was probably more strategic.

Speaker 6 (49:19):
But all three of them him, Corey, Betty Coy and Josh,
who was like but buddies with the whole season.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
So yeah, I think I think he was bummed by
all of them turning on him, for sure.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
I think it's interesting though, watching Josh take it right
because we obviously see this emotional side, which I love
about Josh.

Speaker 4 (49:39):
I think more men should cry. I think it's a
beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
And I love that he expresses himself in this one
in such a positive way. He's not freaking out, He's.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Not dangot better, even though I'm better.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
I did like that snippet of him banging pods and pants.
I enjoyed it.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
So you know, I'm not saying that we need to
see that side of Josh again, but it's nice to
flash back to it. And I ultimately was like inspired
by his desire to go down in the sand next
week and be like, you know what, I want to
take Chris out, Like I thought, well, we've.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Seen that play out in the dumbest of ways, Like
why would Josh put I mean, I don't know. I
get it's entertaining to watch, but it's just like, yeah, hey, bruh,
just try and make it through this week, all right,
and then we can see.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
What happens in next episode.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
But let's not go volunteering ourselves or saying things that
we might regret, you know, in the following week, just
to prove a point, Like isn't the ultimate point to
prove to someone aside from beating them an elimination, winning
the game, or making it farther than them, So like,
why would you ever nominate yourself?

Speaker 4 (50:40):
In total maddness?

Speaker 3 (50:41):
I nominated myself against Jenna and she beat me by
two seconds and a forty five minute brick smash. Yeah brutal,
but yeah not smart, but also kind of heroic to watch,
so I give him his credit. And also we're not
there yet because he is still here because unfortunately, Michelle,
you had to go into the elimination and when you
walked up and you saw what it was, what were

(51:01):
you thinking?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (51:03):
I was like, I I'm from Jersey, I know how
to drive. It is just steering all power I.

Speaker 6 (51:09):
Coulday, I don't know this freaking things like great contraction.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
Okay, just never you guys going to come up with
To be honest with.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
You, I know, dude, it's wild.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Did you feel like your strategy shifted once you recognize
what the game was, because we see you get one
of those things actolutely?

Speaker 4 (51:29):
What led to you not being able to get the
rest of them?

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (51:34):
Probably my lack of like class up curls prior to
this season they have I don't know, I you know
what it was. My grip strength like is just not there,
and so you'll see me like using like the spokes
in the middle. I should have been holding it like
this and I didn't have to grip pulled it from
the outer rim of the steering wheel, and that's.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
Where you get like probably the most leverage I would
thing trying.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
I don't know math very well, but well, we see
Cassidy using her body to or she explains her strategy right,
and she was like using her leg partially to carry in.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Did you consider that at all?

Speaker 6 (52:06):
Or I don't think I was considering much. I was
kind of just like right holling on for survival for
you know, once she had like four and I just
like knew I was kind of slipping. My mental shifted
and not really the best way.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, it looked like you gave up a little bit.

Speaker 6 (52:24):
Never how you want to feel. You never want to
let yourself. Whereas Chris had mentioned with Cassidy, she like
kicked it into gear. So I was like, fuck this
ups and then once your mental's there, it's like, yeah,
that's embarrassing.

Speaker 5 (52:37):
Honestly, I was like, get me out of this hellhole.
Over it. Everybody hates me. I've been crying all day.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Tom Holland doesn't No one can take that away from you, Michelle,
No one can take that away from you.

Speaker 5 (52:49):
So true. But there is a point I feel that
I've had on every season that I've.

Speaker 6 (52:53):
Been on so far that i just realized like, Okay,
this peace wash is over me, and I'm kind of
like I've done all that I can you in this
game and emotionally I'm like checked out, like I can't
do another minute of it. And I felt that on
this day I was really worn down and I was
not feeling it. I was not like in the energy

(53:13):
in the vibe and my vibe, and I was like, yeah,
I was.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
Just not in it, dude, wasn't It was sad to
see you go.

Speaker 6 (53:19):
Man.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
You were definitely like one of my only female friends.

Speaker 5 (53:22):
That I know.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
I had on lock in the house for a long
time in the game, and I mean that's why you
see all of us nuts come down and like bear
hug you at the end, like it didn't feel good to.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
Go back into the house without you, and and we
were praying it was over too. All of us were
exhausted at this point, you know.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
I know it was like the final stretch, and we
didn't know.

Speaker 6 (53:41):
I thought that I was going to walk out that
door and they were gonna be like everybody's in the
final So I'm like craning my ear, like, oh God,
they're about to announce it. They're about to announce it.
When they didn't, I was like, all right, at least
these assholes.

Speaker 5 (53:51):
Have to go back. I don't want any more.

Speaker 6 (53:56):
Like slippery Oil pits like I've done no more trampolines,
like me out, got my dog and be done with it.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Can we tell y'all, can we talk real quick before
we let you go? We got to talk about the
trampoline because it was the best thing ever. Dude, you
looked like the cutest little kid, and the McDonald's played like, okay, in.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
Fairness, they played that out of order, and I was
the first one to go, so I did to see
the strategy the other people. But let's be really honest,
even if I had seen the strategy of the other people,
like I always should on my mom for not going
to be a tramplaine because I always wanted one, and
like I can find a way to blame my mom
for anything.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
It's just no, I blame you for but no, she's great.

Speaker 6 (54:42):
But really I feel like I would have been more
prepared had she got me a trampoline. But I begged
for one all throughout middle school.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
You know, I get it.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Do you feel like you're going to add that to
the list of things that you want to work on
so that way when you come back for another season
you have more under your belt.

Speaker 6 (54:57):
Uh? Well, I really only had had a week between
ending filming this and starting up the next season, So
unfortunately I didn't hit the trampoline mark. There's really find
tramplines in thirty nine. Don't consider me any more season than.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
I was on.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
There's time now though, Michelle, you can order one on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Now, so you can be ready for forty or any
of the upcoming seasons after that and get your your
trampoline game on. But we saw the trailer for We
saw that you're in thirty nine. Is there anything that
you can kind of just hint that we might expect
as far as how that game goes or what should

(55:37):
we should expect to see?

Speaker 3 (55:39):
It was.

Speaker 6 (55:40):
It's a very interesting season because a lot of the
people who have always been sort of like the sideliners,
like people who have been picked off, now have their
time to try to figure out how to navigate get
a game that they're not.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
The underdogs anymore.

Speaker 6 (55:53):
You know, they're able to figure out how to play
from a position of power or strength or whatever, and
they don't have to be under the film of like
people who have to run seasons and seasons together that
have history, and so it's a much more unpredictable sort
of game.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
And I think it'll be fun. I think it's interesting.

Speaker 6 (56:14):
We get to see a few cameos from some of
our favorite champions, which is always fun. A few of
them have some choice words for me, but otherwise it's
I think it's gonna be a great season. It's nice
to see the personalities of people that usually like go
home early and get to developed. There's a lot of love.
There's a few fights. Yeah, there's a little bit of everything.

(56:37):
Everything that makes a challenge spicy is on this season,
and so should be good.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
Love that if you're there.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
There's gotta be a lot of fun and fights and
Michelle downs and also maybe some female kisses.

Speaker 4 (56:48):
We saw that Cassidy one this season, we get any
more in there?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yes, Michelle, Yes, maybe that's what I should be asking.
Where do you and Cassidy stand at this point?

Speaker 5 (56:58):
I gotta ask that because we're about to go Instagram official.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
I heard it here first, Guys, you heard it here first.

Speaker 6 (57:07):
No, but I wouldn't be surprised if one night one
I find myself at some ra bunctious actions.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
I love to see.

Speaker 6 (57:15):
Story is not there, so somebody has to carry the
baton of being crazy during So I just decided I'll
do it for her in her honor.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I be still the tour bag. Well, Michelle, I was
seriously a pleasure talking to you as always. Dude, your
light is so bright. Don't let any of these haters
get you down. Even if your gameplay changes up season
the season, you always come back better and we're always
going to be excited to watch you play.

Speaker 4 (57:42):
You have a heart of gold. So where can people
follow you on Instagram?

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Support you and watch this launch of you and Cassidy's
relationship where it all began.

Speaker 6 (57:53):
Yeah, you can stepup to date with me and Cassidy
on you know, our relationship soft launch within the next week.
I would say, you know, niche Fitz if you're into
Twitter or x or whatever it is, but to be honest,
that place is successful.

Speaker 5 (58:10):
To just stay off that.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
And we'll be looking for the T shirts. Michelle.

Speaker 6 (58:16):
You know what I hear that we're I'm partnering with
The Soul Spill and so when you get a book
of the Soul Spill, you're going to get a Michelle
down T shirt with it.

Speaker 5 (58:24):
So look for that soft launch on my Instagram as well.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
We are gonna do We're all gonna collab on that one.
You're stuck with me. Now have a Michelle down and
then read this book to feel better exactly.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
It's perfect.

Speaker 5 (58:40):
Operation of a lifetime.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
Well, Michelle, thank you so much for coming on the show.
We love you, dude. It's been a blast talking to you.

Speaker 6 (58:47):
Thank you, honestly, always fun. I'm sure I'll see you
guys next season and when I probably inevitably fuck up again.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Looking forward to it, Michelle, We're looking forward to it.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Thanks, girls, I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
Well, that was an episode, and by an episode, I mean.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
That was an episode and a half.

Speaker 5 (59:19):
And a half.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
People just turn it on, everybody. Ooh this episode. God.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
I mean, I'm thankful that we were able to talk
to Michelle, and honestly, like it does. It feels heavy
on my heart to hear her go through, like feeling
the regret and feeling like she betrayed people ultimately, Like
it is truly a game and we do lose sight
of it. Everyone is playing for, however much two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars. I'm like, right, listen, you're gonna
take things personally, but you just you just kind of

(59:44):
keep moving on from it.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
So hopefully she can just take it and grow and
continue to go.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
You know, and I think she's hard on herself this season, Like,
I think she played a pretty smart game, Like, yeah,
there was some messiness, but I'd say, good job, Michelle.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Good Jop.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
I think so too.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
You know.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
Obviously we already gave away gold stars, but I think
we could give her one to go.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
You know. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's fair.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
I'm excited to follow her journey and see. Yeah, I
hope Zandia is not jealous. I hope Zandia watches it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
It's Yndaia, She's not and die if you want to
come on the podcast, you know, and Tom talk about
strategies all of that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Yeah, we're here, we're here.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
We're huge fans and I you might be the most
beautiful person to grace the presence of the earth, so
we would love to have fun.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Fact, my old hairstylists who used to make my wigs
is India's permanent resident hairstylist.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
No, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
That's why I don't people are about to go pilgrimage.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I don't wear that wigny more, but I still hold
on to it just because of how magical that is
shout out to Antoinette and India.

Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Well, I hope that she comes back in your life
and then we can watch it on your social media
because Devin, we want to know, we want to see it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Where can we follow you?

Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
How can we support you?

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
You can follow me with a much less interesting info
but possibly some fun animal fast. You can go to
my website, Devin Simone. That's Den with a Y Simone
with an I dot com At the bottom. You'll see
a lot of my socials. If you're single, we can
talk about matchmaking, so click the matchmaking tab. You can
also Google Devin Simone and Amazon and you can click

(01:01:19):
on my gift closet which has all my recos and
favorite things. And we do live streams, so that's fun
and I'll give you a shout out to, especially if
you're challenged podcast listener. Also my Instagram stories, it's probably
where I'm most active, which again is Devin with y
Simone with an I now misauthor?

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Where can yes, yes? Where can we follow along with
you and find out more about your upcoming book? Oh
thank you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Yes, I'm so thankful that Michelle brought it up because
it's been a dear project to my heart. It's called
The Soul Spill. I just released pre sales on October fist.
I almost said August, That's why I said it weird,
but October October first. So yeah, if you're interested, you know,
come check out my poetry a Nissa made fun of
the other day because she said it sound like I said.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
A poultry book. It's not a poultry book. It's a
poetry book.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
But please come through and check it out and me
in the world to me at the Soul Spell on
Instagram or you can follow me on my regular Instagram
at Tory Deal.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
And more importantly, guys listen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
If you liked this episode, please rate and reviews on
Spotify or Apple Podcasts and tell a friend, because we
love to know that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
You enjoy listening to our beautiful voices.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
We do, but we're not just that vain.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
We love to know your feedback, what you're thinking, who
your gold stars are of the week, and your timeouts.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Let us know and then maybe we'll give those a
shout out to. And then of course you can catch
new episodes of The Challenge USA airing on CBS.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
Yes, and we'll see you back here right after for
a brand new episode of MTV's official challenge podcast, Hey
Tom Hand