The Hours w/ Emer Harkin

Devyn Simone sits down with Ride or Dies Executive Producer and Showrunner (aka:HBIC), Emer Harkin, to talk about coming up with the idea for an 100 hour final, how she navigated Olivia's injury and everything you need to know before next week's season finale. 

Catch new episodes The Challenge: Ride or Dies, Wednesdays at 8pm on MTV and we'll see you back here next week for a brand-new episode of MTV's Official Challenge Podcast.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Hello, Challenge family. It's your girl, Devin Simone. It's
my birthday today, so I'm coming in older wiser and moudeer,
and I am so glad that you're here. I'm holding
it down. We have such a great episode for you
today to go along with the great episode that we
just watch. I mean, can we get into it? You
were tuned in by the way to the Official Challenge podcast.

(00:24):
So much to talk about, which is why I'm talking
so fast, Okay, I just I can't eat between the
ice cream and the pasta and the puzzles and the
green sludge. And I'm still reeling over Olivia. Like, can
we just say I am a living, breathing Olivia Stan account. Now,
I don't care what anybody says. Just the way that

(00:45):
she carried herself through all of this and has just
been such a fighter, The way that Harassio like supported
her as well, Like that she this is an Olivia
Stan account. Just she's such an inspiration. The final as
a whole one hundred hours a hundred out. Do you
guys know how long a hundred hours is. It's a

(01:09):
long time. One hundred hours that is like half of
a week, half of a week with no real shower
and just like sludge, and then you're eating stuff and
you know someone's been severely injured. Now, so that's kind
of like running in the back of your mind because
you don't want to be injured. And everybody's limping and
everybody's yelling. It is just pure chaos. And I'm so
excited because we're gonna get some behind the scenes. You're

(01:32):
not going to get this anywhere else about the final
how it all came to be, all of that stuff
when we get into this interview. Okay, let's talk about
some highlights from this week now. First of all, someone
who would be up for a gold Star would be
Tori and her hair. Because I don't know if you
caught this, but at about hour fifty, when everybody else

(01:54):
is looking a mess, Tori emerges from her tent with
silky smooth. Lucks pay at least one hundred dollars for
that kind of blowout on a regular basis, And I'm
not going through the elements. I don't understand what shampoo
Tori is using or how she managed to look so
falless coming out of that tent. But you think I'm kidding,
go back and rewind and look at it. Watch it.
You'll see the difference. Right. I'm not talking about the

(02:15):
whole final, but there is a moment about halfway through
she gets a little asleep, wakes up, and her hair
looks like a pantine probat. Commercial girl gets a gold
Star nomination just for that. Okay. Some other nominations come
from Tory recognizing the pattern, Anissa recognizing the pattern. I
know people get on Anissa, but what I'm loving about
this final is that it's not all about just strength.

(02:38):
It's not all about endurance. It really is like brains
and braun and stomach capabilities. And our girl, Anissa recognizes
the pattern, okay on the little puzzle thing points it out.
And then also, this is really where she gets the
gold Star nomination. Is patient enough that when Jordan is
being stubborn about it, she doesn't try and hammer it home,

(03:00):
but instead she's like, Okay, I laid the pieces out
for you. I'm gonna just wait and let you figure
it out. I'm sure that some of you have been
in relationships with partners where you had to do that,
where you had to let them think it was their
idea even though you knew all along I'm here with
you in solidarity. Uh huh, and Anissa was holding down
to she gets a gold Start nomination. And then also
i'd say that, you know, Nanni and Bananas being the

(03:25):
comedic duo here right, like, I feel like I can't
think of that like super old, like old old comedy
troupe that was like super popular. It'll that did like slapstick,
You'll know who I'm talking about. It's like old old,
like black and white level old. But that's the vibes
that Nanni and Bananas are giving me for much of
this final even if you go back and listen, even

(03:45):
the music that's played between Nanni and Banana scenes, so
like when it's anyone else, it's like very intense, you know,
tent and to and then when it's like Nanni and
Bananas trying to figure out a puzzle, it's like like
just just go back and listen. It's hilarious. I appreciate their,
you know, the comedy element that they are sort of

(04:06):
adding to this, even if Bananas is trying his best
to annoy the hell out of Nannie part at the time.
But they all get gold Star nominations for this week.
I think the winner is going to actually be in
terms of who's getting a gold Star, I think it's
going to be Tor and Devon, and it's actually going
to be because of their communication level. I'm loving the

(04:26):
way that they're communicating. I know that there's not a
lesson in everything, but there isn't a lot of things,
and the way that they are communicating, like, sure they
blow up, they have their moments, but the way that
they come back and own it quickly, the way that
they speak to each other with love. There's a moment
where Devon even says, and look, I never thought I
would give this much fan paire to Devon and or Dave,
but here we are. The way that they come back

(04:49):
and say, you know, look I'm frustrated, but I love you.
Look at what they're able to accomplish so far with that. Now,
I know they're not in the lead anymore, but still
they've put up you know, they've been in the the
majority of the time, and they're really putting up a
good game. And it comes down to a level of
respect with their communication. Let that be a lesson in
our relationships. Now my time out of the week, you know,

(05:13):
last week it would have gone to the golf ball.
This week it has to go to Jordan. Jordan runs
his mouth a lot. I mean a lot. And this
is coming from someone who runs her mouth and gets
paid to do it a lot. Jordan, we get that
you are passionate, we get that you want to win. Like,
let's even break it down to this, So Anissa hurting

(05:34):
her ankle, right, and I've seen some of the people online,
you know, have dipped strong opinions one way or another
about her ankle injury. It happens, happens to the best
of us. I do think that Jordan should take some
ownership because it was his bright idea to run through
the woods like Hansel and Gretel instead of the clear path,
and then Alisa rolls her ankle. If they were on

(05:54):
the clear path, that would have been less likely to
happen in my opinion. But also him just being so
mean and doing some low blows like brah brah. Okay,
maybe you're the terrorist of love, all right, maybe you are,
like fine, you're passionate about the game, you really want
to win. But this is true for anyone. Passion withoutcome

(06:15):
passion is weakness. It's not strength. Okay, I'm gonna say
it one more time. Passion without come passion is weakness.
It is an Achilles heel. It will limit you. I
don't care how many times you've won this game before.
You will only be able to advance so far if
you can't bring compassion along with you. Now, I'm done
preaching for the episode, but just gonna put that out there.
Jordan ghost it in time out with some pasta, maybe

(06:38):
some ice cream, I don't know, whatever suits your fancy.
Maybe don't want to see that again after what they
did too in this final eating all that food. Totally
get it. Also, where was the ice cream eating challenge
on free Agents? Look, I know it's been ten years,
but I'm actually a little really like I would have
you know, I know my strengths, and that would have
been one of them. It would have been it would

(06:59):
have hint. Anyway, so many good things happen on this episode.
I'm still emotional to about Olivia and Harassio, which we
will talk about a little bit as well. I'm going
to dedicate this episode to them, to Olivia as well.
Just yeah, it's an Olivia stand account. Get with it,
you guys, all right, we have we have Emur hearken on. Now,

(07:22):
if you've been listening for a long time to this podcast,
you know who she is. If you haven't, then you
don't know who she is. I'm going to tell you.
She is the executive producer. She is the showrunner, which
is literally the top of the top of the top
of the top of this season of the Challenge. She's
going to give us some insight and tea. And because
we still haven't let it go, and by we, I
mean me and some of you guys on Twitter and

(07:43):
read it and Instagram, we also compare and talk a
little bit about that final from Challenge USA because people
are still whining about it and I just wanted to
get the record straight and clear things up about how
tough that final was comparatively. And she does give some insight,
so we get all into it. We talk about the
nose incident with Olivia, We talk about the testing process

(08:06):
with games. I tried to ask the questions you all
want to know because you know that I listened to you,
so shout out to you. Thank you, love you, thank you, guys.
Also for those who've left positive feedback on Twitter and
who've left positive feedback on the review on Apple podcasts
and Spotify and even Reddit. Love you all. You're going
to love this episode, So hang party with me, your girl,

(08:26):
Devin Samone, go grab some birthday cake please, and my honor,
you know, grab a snack, but don't actually go anywhere
because you're not going to want to miss this episode.
All the things you want to know coming up right
after this, stay tened. I am so excited to introduce

(08:54):
this next guess. You may know her by her lovely accent.
You may know her as Emer Harkin. I know so
many of the Challenge contestants and players love and adore Emur.
You may know of as executive producer. You also may
know her as Hbic because on the Ride or Die

(09:16):
season she is literally the head bitch in charge. But
please welcome Emer Harkin. Hi, my goodness, thank you so
much for a lovely intro, Devin, It's so true, how awesome.
Can we just take a moment for those who don't know,
showrunner means and and Emer so humble by the way,
because we were like Emur, what exactly was your official

(09:37):
Because Emur has been in the trenches for years. If
you didn't know, now you know Imur was around when
I was doing challenges even she's been around for a
long time, and so she's like, oh, executive producer or showrunner.
And for those of you who are listening, just so
you know, like, executive producer is high up, and you
know this show is coveted, so to get to that
position says a lot. But showrunner that means you everybody's mama,

(10:02):
Like that means you run everything on the show. Hints
why it's called showrunner, and so that is huge. So
am this season so cool? Thank you, you're so sweet.
I actually never really take time to think about the
magnitude of it, to be honest, but you know, now
that you've drawn my attention to it, it is. It's
it's a big job, and it's a lot. You know,

(10:25):
when it's nineteen episodes in a foreign country with a
massive cast and a big show like that, it is
a big undertaking. But I love it. I love it
so much, I really do. It's it's awesome. It's just
such a privilege, it really is. Wait a minute, though,
now it's just hitting me. Does that mean you're the
evil ass mastermind who came up with this hundred hour final? Oh?
What the hell? Every I don't know what notion I took.

(10:47):
You know, I actually had a completely different finale written
and prepared. Yeah, we were going to do something completely different,
and I just had this. I don't know, there was
just this niggle at me and I don't know where
I kind of cooked this up. But I mean when
we told the cast, you know, TJ arrived and said like, okay,

(11:09):
this has happening. It's one hundred dollars. I mean, they
like several pulled me aside and said, like, that's a joke, right, like,
it's not actually one hundred diars. And I said, oh no,
it as you're on the clock, like when we start
it is tic tick one hundred hours. And they thought
it was not legit. They thought it was a joke.
That is so mean. So it was so fun and

(11:31):
they totally crushed that. I was so proud of them. Yeah,
I mean watching it, it has been a lot of fun.
But one hundred hour, like some of the hardest challenges
on record or finals on record have been you know what,
thirty six hours, seventy two hours, something like that, but
never in the history one hundred hours. And we're gonna
dig into what we've seen in the finals so far.

(11:51):
But I'm just curious, like how far in advance does
this start percolating in your mind? Like where, Like are
you out one day with Brents having lunch You're like, oh, pasta,
we should add this to the final, Like totally, do
you up? You know. It's like, so I start creative
on show, you know, months in advance, so like we
will know that the show is right or died, and

(12:13):
then I'll be thinking along with the team about games
and fun things they can do, and you know, just
general creative thoughts about the season. But with regard to
a final, you know, it's something that's cooking in my
brain pretty early on because it's a big priority for me.
You know, it's it's such a big moment. Everybody wants
to make it to the final, and so I take

(12:35):
it really seriously and I want it to be something
that they're impressed by and that they're daunted by. So yeah,
it's something that's always sort of cooking. But I also
get really inspired by wherever we're shooting, you know, like
what's near us, what will feel different, what have we
not done, what's going to test their limits, what's going

(12:57):
to make them go what it is this? Oh, like
this has never happened, and you know it's that's tricky
after you know, thirty seven previous seasons. But but yeah,
you just think about it. I'd like, you know, every
it's it's constantly like your brain's just constantly going U. So, yeah,

(13:17):
it's it's never ending. Really, do you, guys when you
say you're inspired by your location, is it something where
you know, long before you guys start shooting, you fly
down there yourself. I know there's obviously like kind of
location scouts, but do you go take a look and
then you kind of add that into whatever you're thinking?
You know, okay, and it's such a beautiful perk to

(13:39):
the job, you know, I'll go. So this season we
filmed just outside of Juanasires and Argentina, and so I
flew down like four months before we shot there, and
you know, like I'm looking at houses, I'm looking at
a scenery. I'm you know, scurring the map to see
what's nearby, what's within striking distance, what looks cool, what

(14:01):
what feels like it would be? You know what, what's
impressive on camera? What are the casts going to be
totally blown away by? So it's a really creative. It's
a really creative process and it's so fun. Great, yeah, yeah,
that's when. And then how big is the team that's
helping you craft like the final and the dailies and
you know how all that works. Oh well, we have

(14:24):
a challenge development team, a team of like three that
are coming up with games and eliminations all the time,
and that that happens like months before we leave, so
we've got you know again, we'll know the theme as
right or days and we'll be like, okay, what games
would be fun? What are scary? What are funny? What
are really physically assaulting? What's a really fun mental challenge?

(14:44):
So we'll do they'll do all of that months in advance.
But the final is something that's more sort of spearheaded
by the showrunner generally, and every showrunner is differently. But
I will sort of come up with the concept and
then utilize you know, my team, my KOEEP, my games
producers to like help me flash that out and like

(15:04):
figure out you know, beats and segments within the final.
But but I like to have pretty strong creative control
of the final. I jet I come up with most
of it myself because as I say, it's just a
huge priority for me. Yeah. And my last question for
you on the final are you do you ever test
these you yourself test these things out or like are

(15:25):
you a big runner? Are you a big puzzle person?
Like what area of the final do you feel like
you'd excel most? And he could be all of them,
but you know, I used to do distance running. I
actually used to run at national level in Ireland when
I was like thirteen, and then I hit my teenage
years and like I gave it all up for like

(15:48):
you know, boys and partying and all those fun things.
So I think I could probably handle the endurance, but
I'm not in that sort of like physical shape anymore.
I've had two kids in the last four years, so
I don't think I could take one hundred hours of running,
but I so that would be okay. I would be
totally fine with eating and mental puzzles and things. I

(16:12):
would be fine, but I don't get to test them anymore.
Like years ago, I used to be able to test everything.
Like my first season was dual too in News England
in Queenstown, and I was able to test all those stunts.
I never fell into water. I was always. I hated
the drops into water. That was like the one thing
that I really didn't like. But we're not allowed anymore.

(16:32):
I'm not allowed to test anymore, so we haven't. Do
you guys have a separate stunt team or something that's yeah, well,
we have a we have a test team. So we
have a stunt team to test all of our big
stunt builds before we put testers on there. And then
we have a team of testers who are with us
for the entire production to test every challenge so that
we know how everybody's going to play, how people are

(16:55):
going to try to cheat, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So we've
played every chat challenge and every elimination and every part
of the final multiple times before we ever shoot it
with our cost, and our cost always do it differently.
It's bonkers. Yeah. Yeah, So there's two. So it sounds
like there's two kind of sets of checks and balances
because you have the stunt team who'd like test it

(17:15):
out first. Then you actually have a test team who
test it out as well, exactly having the challengers come
and do it themselves. Speaking of how people can cheat,
one thing, I have literally fifty million questions for your Emra.
I'm so glad you're here. And one thing that stood
out to me and watching this week's episode was the

(17:36):
it's the thing I've said that I would thrive in
in a final, the only part which is the eating
challenge and eating something good like pasta, even though there
was no marinara and ice cream chopped ice cream. Of course,
my question in watching that and when Nanni and Bananas
were like just shoving handfuls of pasta in their mouth,
which was actually very smart thing. Using a fork also

(17:56):
looked really disgusting. What were the rules around being able
to throw it up? Because I'm sitting there thinking and
trying to think how people strategize and just kind of
what I remember from back in the day and doing them,
and it's like, I'd imagine you just shove it in
your mouth, shoo it a few times, and then just
proceed to like like almost the quicker you get it
in your mouth, the quicker you can kind of quote

(18:18):
unquote vomit it up. Like what were were there like
certain rules or things you were eyeing out for that
to make sure that everyone really tried to like swallow
it and digest it or you know. Yes, So I
get asked this question so often it's pretty hilarious. Actually.
So I was a game as producer, as you remember,
and when I was a segment producer, I somehow always

(18:39):
got landed the eating challenges and so I like, I
really particular about them as a result. And it's really
the rule is really simple. And no matter what the
eating challenges that we produce and on my shows, so
you have to show me that you've swallowed it before
you compuke. So we've got a efferey on every table.

(19:01):
So say there was a ref like eyeballing Nanni and
Bananas and Jordan and Nanis and so on, and you
are you're just watching show me that you swallowed. And
now if you want to get sick, no problem. But
if you puke without showing a ref that you swallowed,
then your play gets topped up with you add more
back to the place. Y, Who does anybody have to

(19:23):
get more added to their plate? No? But also because
I know the guys so well, Victorian Devin have jumping
with me before, Jordan and Nisa have done so many
the same with Nanni and Bananas, so they know the drill.
They're just sort of like Okay, chomp, chump, chomp, Yeah,
my mirt's empty, and then they puked like it was
Actually it was actually really straightforward to manage because they've
all done it so many times. They've know the drill.

(19:46):
Oh my god, I love getting tea. This is so good.
All right, we're gonna take a quick break, y'all know,
we gotta pay the bills, but don't go anywhere because
we're gonna get right back into it right after this.
It's definitely a final of veterans, although Olivia and Harassio

(20:09):
arguably go down in history as some of the most
fearless rookies I know I've ever seen. I'm curious, you know,
how you would categorize Olivia and Harassio's performance throughout this season.
I couldn't agree more. And they were awesome. They didn't
balk at anything. They took everything that we threw of

(20:33):
them through at them, and they just you know, embraced
everything with a smile. They were like, sure, no worries,
can't wait. And they really were fearless, and I think
they're they showed and there they were never scared. You know,
in their performances you can see that, and so they
were really they had just bad luck, bad luck, bad
luck with the final. It was a really difficult day.

(20:58):
It was such a bummer. Yeah, you wonder too, like
how much of that in the final was bad luck?
And I, you know, I don't know the answer, and
I'd love to know your take how much of it
was bad luck and how much of it was there
sort of the rookiness or the novice nature showing right
like just about things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess, I

(21:22):
mean maybe that came into it, that you know, sort
of novice nerves could have been involved in what happened.
I think that nerves that you feel in the final
are so different to nerves that you experienced throughout the
rest of the season. It's, you know, it's everybody's been
building to this for months. Literally you're a step away

(21:42):
from you know, glory, and it's it's a lot. So
for sure, there's different, you know, nerves are a different level.
But I think that they you know, they're they're just
they're obviously not as seasoned as the others. And I
think with Olivia and during her finger, what happened was
totally late, random and maybe they weren't being as her

(22:04):
full you know, the others know that if they know
how to handle apparatus, and so do Olivia Harassio. But
I think that, you know, maybe they were just sort
of jittery and not as as meticulous with their handling
of things. So like sure, like maybe had she been
like super careful, but then in saying that, she would
have been slowing down and they were just like so
gong hole to get it done. But when it came

(22:26):
to the slang shot, Oh, I hate talking about it
because it was just those are terrifying moments as a showrunner.
What was run through your head when you because I
imagine were you right there when she got hit in
the face with the golf ball where no, no, I
had just advanced, because so we leap frog with the finals,
so like at parts, I'll be with first place, I'll

(22:48):
be with second place, or I'll be with third place.
At that for that portion, I had advanced, and but
the medic and our safety supervisor were there and I
got word on walkie immediately and I was back within
you know, like ninety seconds. But I tested that game,
like I don't know for how many hours we had
played that game In an earlier challenge, as you would

(23:10):
have seen and so to just have tested every iteration
of it. Yeah, but you know she I guess the
injury was caused because she had damaged her finger and
so she wasn't really plated. Like yeah, so like it
was just so it was just such a freak awful accident.

(23:31):
And but like that's the that's the worst case scenario
for me, Like I hate anybody getting injured. It's it's awful.
It's it's always scary. Yeah, but again, they handled it
really well. They were they did handle it really well.
And I mean I teared it. I knew it was coming,
and yet even watching it back, I couldn't help but
just tear up. And their support of one another and

(23:53):
Olivia's wanting to continue to fight. I mean, I if
I had more room in my Instagram bio, I would
change it to Olivia's standing out now because I do.
I just She's She's been iconic all season. Yeah, like
I love her so much, and um, you know there's
been talk after that aired about the like watermelon challenge

(24:15):
that happened on Amazing Race years ago. Did you ever
see that? I did you have thoughts of that? You
know afterwards that moment, Like, what are your thoughts of
people comparing the Watermelon Challenge and what happened to Olivia. Yeah,
I mean, look, of course it's going to draw comparison,
and I think everybody is always wary of sling shots

(24:38):
and catapults for that reason. And the type of ball
that we had was selected for a reason, you know,
what had to go with certain distance, if to break
through a certain fabric and so on. So like it's
I suppose with any of these things you sort of
you it's it's it's calculated risk, right, Yeah, you just

(25:00):
you make the game as safe as you possibly can
and you hope nothing happens. And in that situation, you know,
it was that one in a thousand hit and and
it was just so awful. But I think unfortunately, as
a challenge producer, that's something that we all have to
do with the show. You know, what we do is

(25:20):
serious and people can get injured and the stone you know,
whether we're you know, at one hundred story building and
we're throwing people off a roof or whatever that is,
you know, it's it's really dangerous. So whether it's a
slingshot or whether it's building, or whether it's somebody falling
into water. There is always that risk and and so
it's it's it's a lot of responsibility, and it's it's

(25:41):
that's a heavy part of the job for sure. And
you are what I loved seeing too with you, and
it's that much more impactful in my opinion since you
are the HBI cum her show runner. Is we saw
you um and not everyone may know this, but you
were the one who hugged Rascio out to fight and continue.
And so I love that you sort of broke the

(26:03):
fourth wall and just stepped into frame and really gave
him a hug and and supported him in that moment
um that was so mad. But what was what was
going through your mind? Was there ever a consideration that
that I know the theme was you live and ride,
But was there ever a thought that maybe he'd be
able to continue? Like? What what didn't What did we
not see in that moment? So what we what you

(26:26):
didn't see is that the most important thing first of
all is that Olivia's okay. So when I I arrive,
I get informed by our safety supervisor, by the medics,
like what's happening? Getting her the correct medical care, which
by the way. She didn't want to avail off because
she wanted to keep playing. I had to like absolutely

(26:46):
insist that she go because she's just that badass. And
Haracio was just amazingly supportive, and they were just what
you saw was very real. You know, they were just
totally supportive of each other. But because I knew the
mechanics of the rest of the final, I knew that

(27:07):
he needed a partner, and there was no iteration of
him being able to continue on his own, so I knew.
I knew that it was either the two of them
or nothing, So Harassio continuing on his own. Unfortunately, it
was never going to be an option. But I gave
him several minutes to let it sort of digest, and

(27:28):
he was obviously super emotional, and he was like, em
or please, I'll do whatever it takes. I will whatever
you need me to do. And I had to. I
just like I had to, you know, just like let
it sit. And then after a couple of minutes, I
stepped in and I and then I think when I
hugged him and I said, I was just so sorry
for the way this was happening. I think that's when

(27:48):
he realized, Okay, like it's it's game over. But it
was a horrible I hate, you know, saying goodbye to
anybody when they're eliminated from the game. In any the
capacity is awful, whether they've lost an elimination or um
or it's injury. In this situation, it was just so cruel.
It was so heartbreaking for them, and it was you know,
it's painful for me as well as them, especially after

(28:09):
how much they had contributed to the season. You know, yeah,
that's it's always heartbreaking. Kind of reminds me of UM
back in the day when car Maria wanted to continue
and she'd broken her wrist and she wasn't able to um.
She was medically dcuted, which is remember, you know, yeah,
so sad. What would you say or some of the
moments without giving spoilers of what we're going to see

(28:32):
next week, but so far, like, what are some of
your proudest moments of this season? Oh? Wow, it's so hard.
It's so hard. You know, it's because it's such a
long shoot. I mean, it was a very long shoot.
So I was just so proud of the crew and
the cast for getting through it. You know, ten weeks

(28:52):
to keep up momentum and energy for that amount of
time is a lot. So I think just like getting
everybody you know through, delivering a good product is obviously
always super super meaningful. I think that I just loved
our cast. I thought they were so awesome. There were
just such beautiful moments and true friendship and like having

(29:16):
each other's backs. I love the romanceing. I loved like
the final for me, and I don't want to give
any spoilers because it really was a very different final
and it was something that I'm really proud of. You know.
It was sort of it felt very much of like,
you know, the ilk of a regular final for the

(29:37):
first for the first you know, like fifty or sixty hours,
and then it just completely flips upside down and it
goes like somewhere that nobody will be expecting. Yeah, And
so I really was proud of that. And to hear
Tori and Devon and Bananas and Nanny, I think Jordan

(29:59):
Ninissa did so they said that what happens at the
end of the final, they said it was the coolest
thing that they had ever seen on the show, And
so that meant a lot, like they were totally and
we really are able to give them this gigantic surprise
moment in the final episode, and that is important to me,

(30:21):
that I have really caught them off guard. That that's
really important. And also whenever the players came back, you know,
whenever Mariah and so one came back and we're playing
to get back in the game, that was a curveball
that they weren't expecting either. You know, they were genuinely shocked,
And that's important to me because it's hard to keep

(30:42):
anything secret from newcast members. As you know, you guys
are always you have eyes and ears everywhere. So I
think that's that's probably my takeaway from the season. The
ability to surprise at certain moments was awesome. You definitely good.
I mean the first episode where we saw one of
someone who got eliminated sort of come back, you know,
when TJ was like, I think it was Nelson, right

(31:04):
when TJ wasn't Nelson. No, it wasn't Nelson who got
I forgot But anyway, it's been a long time. I'm
old now, but I just remember when we had the
first of the episodes of the Rider Die season where
they walked back and TJ is standing there doing that
hand rub thing that he does, and he's sort of like,
you know, you're not out yet, and my jaw just dropped,
like my mouth was just like I could not believe it.

(31:28):
It was such a surprise and so cool and fascinating
the way that you guys did that. Yeah, it was
that was full and well Nelson actually was the first.
It was we had and you know, we had like
Bananas and Nanni comme in. We had like Jordan and
Nissa come in, like we had Drell and Veronica coming in.
That was fun. And then to like tell Nelson he

(31:49):
was still in with a shot, and then you know
when Race went died and then they couldn't continue in
the game. There was really there were profound moments of
sort of you know, shock and surprise, and that is
That's something that I think is really fun and I
think the cast members get a kick out of it
as well, which I love. Speaking of getting a kick
out of things, did you guys get a kick out
of having Jordan come on, it's a surprise tory this season?

(32:13):
Be honest, What was the process behind that and how
hard was it could convince him? It wasn't hard to
convince him at all. It was not hard to convince. Jordan,
he was so darn it was amazing, and we he
did ask if Tory was going to be there for sure.
You know, it's very real. What they've gone through is
just such a you know, it's just they've been through

(32:35):
so much together and it's a lot. And I think that,
you know, it was obviously a concern. I think it's
really compelling as well. You know, they're just they're both
awesome people and awesome characters. And I think that's shown
in the fact that we're also interested in that. And
I think I, you know, I wasn't interested and intrigued
and you know, really excited to see what would happen,

(32:57):
just like everybody else. But it was definitely like we
were all like, oh my god, he's really going to come.
Did you tell Marie? He asked if Tory was going
to be there, because obviously Tori didn't know, surprised she
didn't know. Did you tell him that, yes, she would
be on the season, or did you you did No,
I told him, yeah, I never liked it. If I'm
asked something like if I can't answer, I'll just say,

(33:19):
look I can't answer that question. But yeah, no, I
told him because he also you know again, like I say,
you guys have eyes and ears everywhere you kind of
you like, you know, you know, he probably knew that
she was gone anyway, but he was right, it's going
to be there, and so I just said, yeah, look
she is, and he thought about it for a second

(33:39):
and said, I'm down. You know. He was ready to
come and perform, and of course, typically Jordan was like,
you know, but he had been in Ukraine volunteering, and
he was like, I'm really out of shape, you know,
like I'm really not like in my best shape. And
then he rises and I was like, are you joking?
Like this okay, okay, sure Jordan, right, he made it

(34:01):
all the way to the final. So do you do
you think that? Because in watching what we're seeing so
far in this challenge, we're just so fascinating because I
love that there there is a lot of endurance, which
seems like my worst nightmare, but then there are a
lot of checks and balances around these puzzles, Like there's
a lot of these moments that are the great equalize,

(34:23):
you know, a lot of equalizes, which is what we're
seeing now because now we left off with this episode
where Nanni. You know, Banana or Banani is in the
lead when it had been Tori and Devin for a
long time, and Nissa and Jordan, even with her injury,
aren't far behind, like, so it would less kind of
in the words of Steve Harvey and family feud, anyone's game.

(34:44):
But do you do you think you know? Watching the
communication between partners has been really fascinating, particularly during the final,
and like you said, everything's heightened and there is a
level of stress that like no one knows unless they've
been in a final, right, Like there's just a level
of pressure that you just don't know until you're there.

(35:05):
It's still haunt ten years later, it still haunts me.
So but it's interesting. You know what I'm picking up
is it almost seems like Devin and Tory are thriving
because they really are best friends, right, like even off
the show they are, but they co parent a duck
together that I believe Devin got a garage shale once

(35:25):
who's on The Aftermath a couple of seasons ago. But
they really are like best friends in that way, And
not that there aren't strong bonds with the others, but
I just feel like their ability to really adapt and
support one another has been to their advantage where you
see these other teams, even with a level of closeness,
start to become individuals right in this final even though

(35:47):
it's a right thing. Yeah, yeah, I agree to some level.
But I think also it's really down to individual personalities
because Tory and Devin just sort of have quite and
measure dispositions. They generally don't fly off the hand, they
generally don't go too high or too low. And whereas

(36:08):
Bananas and Nanny, like, I'm probably more like them personally
as well, because I'm like, like if I go crazy,
I go crazy. Yeah, Like you know, my highs are high,
my loads are low, and like and I think that,
you know, you really see that with Bananas and Nanny,
But I they're so tight and they adore each other.
But I think it's just their way, do you know

(36:29):
what I mean? Like, I think that that's just their
disposition anyway. So like if something's going wrong or like
they screw something up, they get so frustrated because they're
because that's just sort of who they are, you know.
And and I think it's the same with Jordan and
Nanisa and Nissa's like probably more level than Jordan's because
Jordan's in this so like it. I guess, of each

(36:51):
of the pairings, I think the Tory and Devon are
probably the most similar. Yes, your words, your words, my friend,
I'm retired, I can say, yeah, I love you. So
I think that they I think that they are just

(37:12):
probably the most sort of even and I think that
that really helped them. They never you know, they're they
didn't really ever have that much conflict they had throughout
the season as well as the final, you know, right,
or they seemed to apologize about it and say it
doubled down, like yeah, in the little bit that we
saw at least right where um who when they were

(37:34):
doing the puzzle thing, you know where they were standing
up on the puzzle thing. There's seventy five puzzles in
the final, but when they were doing the one where
they had to climb up on that pole to like
look down to get and it seemed like everybody was
kind of cracking at that point, Like we literally saw
a scene where every male partner yelled at his female
partner in that particular like segment, Yeah, including Devin or

(37:56):
Dave yelling head. But then we saw and obviously there's
certain levels of editing, but we still saw a fairly
quick turnaround, you know, like I love you or I'm sorry,
but I'm just frustrated here, whereas with the others we
saw some kind of like heel digging before coming back
together or before dropping it. Maybe it's a matchmaker in

(38:20):
Me and the Day Covid. I just seeing the dynamics
of those partnerships and yelling versus being able to really communicate,
which I feel like is what this season is largely about, right,
Like Ryan dies, It's like really being able to communicate
with your partner, Like that's your greatest asset. You don't

(38:41):
necessarily have to be the fastest or the strongest. That's right.
That's right. And I think we've seen time and time
again over the season, like use they succeed, those that succeed,
and those that want It was all hinged on like
how well they really knew their partner and how well
they can really function as a unit. And I think

(39:01):
that that's really compelling. And I think that as the
final evolves, you'll see that more and more and like
and that's ultimately what the goal was. You know, we
wanted to show who was the realist writer Die, and
like that that true true bond and not true friendship
and knowing of each other would be like you say
your greatest set, I'm not and I think we get

(39:23):
see that's right at the final Yeah, and I love
that pairing. I love that theme. Um, I'm going to
circle back to this question and give you time to
think about it. It's a question that probably no listener
really cares about, but I care and I want to
know emer if I were casting this Sea season, who
would you cast as my writer? Die will come back
to that answer, but I'm curious. Um, I also want

(39:44):
to know, what is something else? Just for the the
Committed Challenge family fans that listen to this podcast, I
know they love when we get tea or a little
bit behind the scenes. What something else you can share
with us that happened throughout the season behind the scenes
that we'd be surprised to know. I mean, you guys

(40:08):
know about the alternates and everything. Is that interesting? Like, yeah,
you can tell us a little more about that, and
like that speculation a little bit about it, but yeah,
we always have alternates to travel to location. I think
that's probably something that people might not know as much Abart.
So like we have like backup right or die pairs
that will bring out and or if it's just you know,
any season, we bring alternates as well in case someone

(40:29):
gets sick or gets injured, or there's any reason, like
towards the start of the show, if anybody needs to leave.
So like we had you know, pairs from different parts
of the world, like holding in a hotel room that
like a hotel like five minutes from the cast house
for like a week and a half and had you know,
had anything happened. So that's sort of like a little
behind the scenes thing that happens every season. And those

(40:51):
pairs got called up like because because it's we heard
like um Jordan and a Nissa, right, were they an
alternate pair or like the combination of the two of
them were like an alternate pair? They weren't. They weren't.
So like we we had like the craziest start to
the show, and there were a lot of changes, you know,
like we live in a COVID world and it's a

(41:13):
very real thing and you can imagine, you know, we
have a crew of over a hundred, right, and we've
got over thirty cast and trying to get everybody safe
and healthy to location is virtually impossible, so we had
to make a lot of last minute adjustments. As you
would be able to tell in the first few episodes
of the show, there were like people coming in and
people going. But Nam and his partner were alternates who

(41:37):
came in, and Olivia Harassio were alternates who came in.
So like we got really we got really lucky, you
know with people that we picked and who came in,
and then we needed like we called up Jordan and
Anissa and you know, Bananas and Nanni were like a
kind of a last minute edition because casting is such

(41:58):
a massive jigsaw and like people are available at different
times for different things, and you know, it's just it
really really is a massive jigsap. Although that we you know,
it's a permanent shuffle, so it all fell into place.
You know. I was just so stoked at the end
because I was like, oh my yeah, like we really
had an awesome fast you know, like we had Laurel,
we had Nanny, we had the return and but nan As,

(42:19):
we had you know, it just we it felt like
we had a really good spread. So that was cool. Yeah,
you know, you said that there was another final that
you had initially intended for this season. I'm curious because
there's been so much chatter still about this, do you
think that there would be final? Because I feel like
we already know the answer regarding the current final, because

(42:40):
it's pretty much the hardest ever arguably from what we've
seen so far. But the final you had in your
mind that was almost for the Rider Die season. Do
you think it would have been harder than the Challenge
USA final or less hard It was so different. It

(43:00):
was more water based, so it was sort of more specialist,
and you know that where as the USA final was
just like based so brutal. Well, it was so brutal,
you know, it was just like an assault, a physical
assault really and you know, you really like to even finish.
It was just like such an achievement, whereas the Challenge

(43:22):
Final was going to be more you know, we were
in one of the biggest waterfall systems in the entire world,
so there was a lot of that. Like, it was
amazing scenery. There was stuff in water and in boats
and on like cliff pathways around the water, so it
was sort of more location based. Yeah, but I don't
think it would have been as tough as the USA

(43:43):
final or the final that we've that we do on
rid or Dice. It just would have been different. Yeah,
can you give some insight then, because there's been a
lot of whining about that USA final, Like a lot
of whining and as we saw, most people quit. If
you guys haven't want to challenge USA, sorry spoiler alert
should have said that two minutes ago. But um uh so,
what how hard? Because it looked hard like all finals

(44:05):
are hard. It certainly looked uncomfortable and hard. But the
amount of quitting we saw, I felt like was unprecedented.
And so there's some people saying, oh my gosh, it
was so hard, But a lot of those people haven't
experienced other finals because those are all non challenged people.
So it's hard to compare what is your genuine thought
around how that particular final compared to other Challenge finals

(44:26):
in recent years. I was in touch with the team
on the Grind when they were there, and the showrunner
of USA and I our dear friends, and so it
sounded like it sounded like the conditions were really brutal.
It did really sound like it was. It was. I mean,
you can tell like it was really the cold giving yeah,

(44:46):
like and you've you know, and you've been in that situation,
den like it's it's legit. Yeah. Also, you know, it
was an unprecedented level of quitting, and I think that
it's because a lot of those people hadn't ever writing
put through something like that before, whereas like our challengers
are like, and I say this all the time, and
I really yeah, Like you guys are like, like, you

(45:09):
just don't stop, Like it's so impressive. It's funny. That
was never really a concern for me at any stage
with the hundred hour finals, yeah, and not funny, like, yeah,
I never worried about it ever, right, And that that's
not And I think that's why, you know, the other
co host myself and Davon, like we talked about it
and why we ride so hard for And I think

(45:32):
that makes the challenge or people who kind of were
raised up in the challenge a bit of a different breed.
Is like, you know, not taking away that that final
in USA was hard, because it looked hard. It didn't
look comfortable for anybody, but that we know you're fighting
for the opportunity to get to the hard and I
feel like, right, when you live in the challenge, you
know that that's the expectation, like we were in you know,

(45:52):
as I watched them bike on the one hundred hour final,
the first thing I'm thinking is like, wow, they're taking
their shirts off. It must be tim where, like like
nice temperature, whereas when we did it, for in Chile,
it was freezing cold and Nannie got Offen was like,
you know, crying and like you could see our breath
come out. It was freezing cold to do that just

(46:13):
to be able to sleep. And then of course we
were hiking the snow covered volcano or what have you,
and so it's like, yeah, it was cold there too.
It wasn't nice. It was pretty brutal for us as individuals.
Yet you don't quit, like you just you don't quit
on the Challenge. So so basically you're saying that, like, yes,
it was hard and traumatizing. So they're not all complete babies,

(46:34):
and we've had them on the podcast board, but you're
also saying that it is in line with other Challenge finals.
So it's not like it wasn't one hundred hour final.
It wasn't like, yeah, I was shocked, to be honest,
because it wasn't anything more. You know, it was comparably brutal.
It's what I would saying, so it does. It didn't

(46:55):
feel like anything was devised. It was that preposterous. It
was just really it was really brutal and really brutal
conditions and I think certainly comparable to all their finals
that we've done on the Challenge for sure. Yeah, got it,
And thank you for sharing that in that insight. That's
super valuable and just gives a little bit of we
can continue to ride them about that. Is there anything

(47:19):
I know there is? Can you give us just a
little hint of what we should look forward to for
next week's episode the grand finale of this masterful final
that you have put together. What should we be like
looking forward to or keep our eye out for. Well,
thank you. First of all, you're very very sweet. I

(47:40):
think that it's just such a surprise. There's a giant
spectacle that is something TJ and I had so much
fun with like create in creating it and building it
and designing it, like it's it's almost sort of all
their worldly the environment that they go into, and so

(48:00):
it was, like I say, you know, there was a
lot of like secrets and surprises this season. This was
like the best kept secret and the revel when you
guys see it. Just to know that behind the scenes,
we had crew hiding and pitch Black night for like hours,
hiding their phones, hiding their equipment, hiding you know, everybody

(48:23):
was in hiding. T J and I were in hiding.
And then there is this moment, this reveal, and suddenly
you're like transported to this crazy other world and it's
it's awesome, it's so fun. Oh my gosh, I can't wait.
You were I kidnot wait, I'm so excited. Okay, I
know you have to go. Um one more. We're gonna
circle back to that question I mentioned earlier, because I

(48:44):
don't forget things. Um, unless who would you cast? Is
my ride on the Ride or Diason? Well? You see, okay,
if it was a rider die season, so you would
have had to be partnered with a dude. I mean,
oh my god, would we I don't know? Um not Zach,

(49:04):
thank you, but Zach? Who would we pair you with?
Oh my god, so hard? Who would you want? I
don't know who? And I talked to a majority of
the cast in doing the aftermats and the I'm not
going to tell you who I'm closest with because we
would have been eliminated season episode one, um if you
did pair me with that person. So um. But yeah,

(49:29):
I'm curious, who would you That's so hard. I mean,
you see, it's sort of like I would want every
probably like you would have wanted Bananas. Yeah, I would
have won it because we actually do well together. Well,
we talked about I would say I'm his unofficial relationship advisor.
He doesn't listen to UM. And you know, I've always
credited Bananas with being the reason I even did the

(49:51):
Real World and then the challenge. Really yeah, yeah, because
I met him. No, I never watched him, but I
met him in colleague event in college, and I was
tasked with being keeping an eye on hit, like taking
him around the sea set event and he ate my
McDonald's and I was really annoyed by that, but also
intrigued about his personality. And then it made me. Literally

(50:14):
that weekend, I went home and applied for the next
season of Real World and got after meeting didn't know this,
Yeah that's so cute. Yeah, I didn't know that, so
I'd taken You would definitely take a bananas for sure. Um,
it's hard because I'm trying to think who are you
closest with and like Unfortunately, but chet chet we get

(50:36):
eliminated right away. Um, yeah, certainly not Zach. Yes, I
mean no, shade to Jet. Not your guy. He's not
your guy. No. If he yelled at me like that, Nah,
wouldn't work. Wouldn't We used to yell at me, you know?
Oh yeah, I know right, But he doesn't, not anymore.
He doesn't anymore. We're friends. He never yelled at me.

(50:57):
We always had fun time together. But I mean defense,
he always it was always during a game because yes,
I was probably yelling at him to stop trying to
cheat or something. That is very true. And that's like
all of us. I have my eyes and my loves
with all of you. You're like, yeah, we're my dysfunctional children.
We are. We are like your dysfunctional. Oh I miss you,
amur you too, call me when you're in La I will.

(51:21):
You are such a delight and it's so cool seeing
you thrive and b the HBIC like admire that and
aspect it so so much. Thank you for making time
to come on um the Little Podcast that Could and
share a little behind the scenes, excited to see this
epic thing you have planned for us next week. I

(51:42):
know it's going to be great. I'm probably gonna be
like DM in you or texting you like, oh my god,
so cool. Is there anything else you want to say
before you roll out? No, I feel like I'm like
VIP right now. You're so eight you start to the day.
Um no, thank you for having me. I'm sad I

(52:03):
missed dave On. Please send her my luves And that's it.
You guys, keep kicking ass. Thank you everything you do.
You guys are the bomb. Thank you you as well,
emer and also just for a mom out there kicking
ass too. The fact you said you had two kids
last four years, Like just seriously, like you right here
are just um goading it for sure. I think that's

(52:24):
so so phenomenal. So you gonna make bye oh bye,
I know, bye. Thank you so much, Thank you, bye guys,
Bye bye you guys. Uh. That was such a great

(52:53):
interview with Emur Harkin. I love that. So glad that
she made the time and what can you believe it?
Okay that there was a whole other final devised amazing,
brilliant wonder when we're gonna see that in future seasons,
because you know they're going to use it at some point.
Also love seeing a woman in charge of all of
these Challenge crazies. Just wow a lot of tea and

(53:14):
put Challenge USA on notice. Officially that final was hard,
but it was as hard as other Challenge finals. I
now rest my case. Thank you guys so much for listening.
If you want to keep up with me and say hi,
possibly get a shout out in a future episode, then
you can go to my website Devin Simone dot com.
That's Devin with a why Simon with an I. Scroll
to the bottom you'll see my socials. You can also
follow me on Amazon. You can reach that via my

(53:36):
website or you can go to Amazon dot com slash
shops as Devin Simone, Twitter ig, same thing, Stevins Pretty consistent.
I started posting on TikTok now too, guys, and like
my video has a lot of views. I'm kind of
proud of myself. I gotta get back in there, but
go follow me on TikTok now. Maybe we'll connect over there.
Thank you guys so much for listening. If you like

(53:57):
this episode, if you want us to do more of this.
You want more or t then make sure that you
tell a friend, a sister, mama, cousin, uncle, daughter, cat dog,
and also rate and review on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts,
wherever you get your podcast. We do really appreciate your
uplifting feedback. We appreciate your support and just being here
and know that the Challenge family, Tory, Anissa, and da

(54:19):
Von we're all here. We're still going to be here
and so excited to watch the season finale of The
Challenge Ride or Dies next Wednesday at eight pm on MTV.
You heard it here from Emer who designed the final
that it's going to blow our minds. So can't wait
to watch that. And then make sure right after that

(54:40):
you come right back here because we'll see you for
a brand new episode of MTV's official Challenge podcast. I'm
your host, even Simone, And this is the place that
you want to be. Have a good week.