May 28, 2025 • 23 mins
Join Host Lynn Hoffman for this replay of a past episode with the talented singer songwriter William Fitzsimmons. He shares his intimate personal journey battling family challenges and depression and finding hope through song while battling personal heartbreak. You'll love William's honesty as he shares why music has truly saved him.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Music saved me to be This is just this is neurology.
You know, somebody can tell me it's okay that you're
going through a season of depression right now, and that
can be powerful if I hear someone telling me that.
But there's also beautiful music that's happening at the same time.
It sort of puts it on steroids, for lack of
(00:20):
a better term.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm Lyn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me podcast,
the podcast where we talk with musicians about their personal
stories that transform into their powerful music. Music Save Me
is also a proud supporter of musicians on call. On
this episode, we are so happy to have singer songwriter
William Fitzimmons, who definitely knows a thing or two about
(00:42):
the healing and transformative powers of music. He has some
great new music out that we'll get to as well
as talk about how music affected him and in essence,
transformed his life. William Fitzsimmons, Welcome to Music Save Me.
It's so great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's wonderful to be here. Thanks. Lynn.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, you're not only an incredible talented musician and songwriter
and engineer and producer, but you also have which I
find so incredibly interesting. A master's degree in mental health therapy,
and prior to your successful career in music, you worked
as a mental health therapist. So that makes you just
about the most perfect guest for this show that I
(01:21):
could get. So my first question to you is do
you believe that music has healing powers?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
It'd be crazy if I said no, right now, right,
and then well see you guys, letter really do Yeah?
And I never I was not a music therapist. I
worked with music therapist. I did impatient for about five
years in Camden, New Jersey, and we would occasionally have
(01:49):
music therapist that would come in and I thought it
was fascinating. But at that point I had never put
the two together in anything more than just an experiential way.
Music could my entire life was a healing force. But yeah,
I didn't know it in a professional manner, but I
(02:10):
always knew that in my personal life it was wildly transformative.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
When did you realize that it was a huge part
of your calling in life? And did your unique childhood
upbringing have anything to do with it?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah? Yeah, of course I think so. My parents are
both blind, I'm supposed to say visually disabled, but they
stay blind. So I feel like I can probably stay
blind too. And the thing that I realized of being
a peripheral part of that community of watching my parents
and the organizations they were part of and their friends,
(02:47):
is that music. It was like this. It was like
a leveling force where like my dad is an amazing organist,
wonderful organ player, he just doesn't need his eyes. It
would be lovely if he could, you know, when he's
when he's learning a new bach piece or something. If
he could site read it, that would be great. But
(03:08):
to actually experience to play music, to sing a song
with somebody else, you just don't need to see to
do that. And so in our family, that was one
of the very few things that we could fully connect
on and be in the same level. So I think
even as a kid, you know, not like not being
able to have eye contact with my mom as like
(03:29):
a toddler, which you don't know it when you're three
or four, but you feel it, you know. But she
would sing like John Denver songs to me and I
would start sing them with her, and so there was
no disconnect at that point. So I had the understanding
of how connect at the very least, how connecting. Music
can be and it's cheesy, but it actually brings people together.
(03:55):
It's one of the few things that can do that
in a really powerful way.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I don't think that's cheesy at all. Think it's incredible
and what a skill to be given to you at
such a young age. And you didn't even realize the
extent of no idea.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, it was just something really special. That's why I
didn't think of it as as a job, you know.
I was like, well, no, of course, I'm going to
play music, that's what you know. I'm going to be
that annoying the guy with the acoustic guitar on college campus,
like singing Wonderwall, like trying to get all the girls
to come over and listen to them, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
With the puppy and the guitar case.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I maybe that's why I didn't work that well, that would.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Have been h Well, you know I've read that you'd
once said about your job description as a musician that
pretty much you have to write about the hard shit
and nothing's off limits in your private life. What allows
you to be so profoundly open about the personal aspects
of your life.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's how my mom has always been where nothing really
was off limits, and like even to an uncomfortable level.
So I had that education pretty young where you know,
she when when my parents split up and we stayed,
my mom had full custody. She's a very open emotional person,
(05:14):
and for better or worse, that was kind of the
That was the experience that I That was the modal
experience that I had of encountering emotions was being fully
free to talk about like I'm angry, I'm sad. You know.
It was that and frankly just the training for being
a therapist. If if you're unwilling to sit in a
room with somebody and then literally described like the darkest,
(05:38):
most difficult stuff, you're never going to make it. So
it's really sink or swim like that. You know. It's
one thing when you're doing you're in grad school and
you're practicing with your your peers and they're making up
problems they have, and then all of a sudden, you're
in your internship and someone is weeping and they're talking
about a parent that died, like you have to you
(06:00):
either can show up and sit with them in that pain,
or it's time to find a new job. So it
really I don't give myself much credit for it. That's
just the experiences that I had, And I was ready
when I started writing my own songs, like I don't
want to talk about you know, boring, ineffectual stuff like
to me, the fund's not the right word. I wanted
(06:24):
to talk about the really hard stuff because that's where
I saw the most change and the most reward for
everybody in the room.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean, to some degree, we all sort of struggle
in our own ways with so many similar things, but
nobody really ever talks about it. So combined talking about
it with music, I would imagine that would probably be
like the pinnacle of Yeah, just layter all out there
and connecting with people.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, well there's there's good stalts, right, the whole is
greater than the some of its parts. And that's you know, music, film,
like any multi modal kind of art form. I think
it the more modes that you have in there, the
better you're able to bypass the frontal lobe, because to
(07:14):
be this is just this is neurology. You know, somebody
can tell me, you know, it's okay that you're going
through a season of depression right now, and that can
be powerful if I hear someone telling me that, but
there's also beautiful music that's happening at the same time.
I just I think it's like it's it sort of
(07:37):
puts it on steroids, for lack of a better term,
And I just think it goes right in and your
your defense mechanisms have a lot of difficulty fighting it
because you just you know, you listening to a song
and you start crying right and you have no idea
why that. That to me, that's the strength that music has.
I think it can get deeper quicker.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, let's talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Your new project, Incidental Contact, and in particular your stepmom,
who I'm sorry to hear passed away. How did that
impact you and your music?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I mean, I it's you have to be careful with
some of these things that you write about. I remember
there was one I did a I did a piece
a long time ago, like a long form interview about
my third record that was about my first divorce. Can
I have to have to count on my fingers which
one it is? And I'm just kidding, okay, And like
(08:36):
everything was overwhelming and positive. There was great feedback on it,
but there was one comment which that that's why I
learned never to read internet comments where I was like,
what a what a disgrace? Two to make money off
of this? You know, this this painful like experience. And
I'm old enough now or I can look at that
and be like, oh that I see that person's point
(08:59):
and that's the reaction they had and for some reason
they were put off by it, and that's okay, Like
I have room for that. I felt like my intentions
were pretty pure, so I wasn't overly bothered by it,
but for you know, a day or two. But all
that to say, when Vicky, when my stepmom died, it
was a really big surprise. And writing is just that
(09:19):
that tends to be the tool that I've developed to
figure stuff out. It's really very similar to journaling, which
which I do on and off as well. That my
therapist got me into that years ago, but I had
already been doing that With writing songs, it just it
just helped me get stuff out that maybe I was
having trouble figuring out, like what am I actually feeling
(09:41):
right now? Am I'm angry? You know? Am I guilty
for maybe things that were left unseat or undone? And
so writing those songs really was just about Okay, the
we're in grief right now, let's start, let's start walking
through it. What do we do? Let's sit at the
piano and see what comes out. It was really that
(10:03):
it was that simple, and you know, it didn't fix everything,
but I think it got me, like to the next
stage where I could start figuring out what was next.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So many people are not fortunate enough to have people
in their lives to talk to, so having that skill
is huge.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It'd be nicer. Mental health was not something that we
had to pay exorbit fees for. That's a different conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
But something that you said right before, what you just
said too, I mean, it hits me even you know
where we're sitting here trying to figure out you know,
what is it about music that helps people so much
and also helps the people who create it, not just
the people who consume it or listen to it.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And where do you draw.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That line of feeling like you're capitalizing for a better
word off of someone's pain when it actually is really
coming from your heart.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You don't do it for other reasons other than to
help those listening.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
In yourself, No, I'm just trying to buy a boat.
I figured the the best way to make money in
music and buy a boat is writing really really sad
folk music. And I nailed it. You know, the feedback
that I got really early on when I wasn't even
(11:25):
doing this, you know, as a career I was. I
just bought a really cheat I went to guitar Center.
I had a little bit of money from like Christmas
and birthday saved up when I was in grad school,
and I went and bought this little little recording box
and a really cheap microphone. Because that I had always
wanted to record music. I used to do a thing
(11:46):
where my parents had the high fi system and you
would my mom had a little radio shack mic and
you could record yourself singing, and then you'd put that
tape in the in the stereo, put a new tape
in the recorder, and you're multi tracking.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I was so fascin I was like, this is the
coolest thing ever. But the feedback that I got really
early on from those songs was really really powerful stuff. Literally,
people were like, you know this this I'm going through
a divorce right now or a lot of like death.
Death was a big bit because I wrote about that
(12:25):
early on. You know, my father died a year ago
and this song really helped me. Oh I never really,
I never looked back after that. I was like, well, clearly,
even if other people are put off by it, the
great majority of people that are talking to me are
saying that's helping them. So if it's helping me get
stuff out, if it's helping them feel less alone, then
(12:47):
that's just a win, right.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Your music is described as inward looking, of course what
we're talking about. Can you tell us how you feel
when you visually see and feel people reacting in a
positive way to your music?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
How does how does it make you feel?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
It's great, It's it's so great. You have to like,
you have to check your ego, you know, and I
really do like performing. It's it's wonderful. It's one. I
feel so happy and comfortable on a stage. And part
of that is just we like the things that we
believe we're good at, and I think I'm half way
decent at doing that. But no, it's really I mean,
(13:30):
I've I've seen people sing along and cry and go
through a whole host of emotions and that's I mean,
that's it's incredible. But I you know, I also had
to temper that early on too, because you really do,
you start to feel like you're real important. I can
help people go through emotion that's dangerous even as a therapist,
(13:52):
like you have to recognize it's not you, you know,
you you're you're essentially just reflecting back what they're going
through and helping them move a little forward. There's no
you know, I'm not a magician or something. So I
do love it. I'm not gonna lie, but I always like,
I always like the grounding experience of like having somebody
that's just looking at their phone while I'm singing about
(14:16):
like the biggest heartbreak of my life and they could
give two craps about what's happening. That's actually kind of
beautiful too, because you're like, dude, you're just a dude
up here with the guitar man. Calm down, you know,
keeping it real.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's that's very important, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And speaking of that, though, why do you think it
is so hard for people to look inward? And you know,
and the better way of putting it is, why do
you think it's so hard for people to be able
to laugh at themselves?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
It hurts it's scary. There's a lot more fun stuff,
you know what I mean, Like there's really funny TV shows,
you know, and there's like there's cal zones, you know
what I mean, And those things are so much more fun.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Did you know cal zones?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, it's my favorite food.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's gonna say, yeah, that's my that's my Bengo card.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's not fun. Nobody wants to even for me, which
I really like. I enjoy being emotional as like, ask
my wife, you know, it's one of my favorite things. Oh,
here's another deep conversation. It's it's just because it's hard.
It doesn't it doesn't feel good, you know. It's it's
like listening to I would like more challenging me, like
(15:28):
a Radiohead record. It feels amazing, but it's so good
and it's complicated that it doesn't always feel like andy
on the first listen. Right, It's like a really good
meal that it takes a lot of time to digest.
So yeah, I don't fault anybody that I tend to
think that people that are like really put off by
(15:49):
my music are you know, they might just not be
ready to experience or they just hate it. But that's fine. Too.
You know, people have a different preparedness, different readiness. You know,
I would never recommend, for example, somebody do therapy if
they're not ready for it. You know, it's just gonna
be a waste of time and money. There has to
(16:11):
be like a little spark of Okay, this thing happened,
I'm ready to start thinking about it. Well.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, it's interesting if I look back across your career,
you've been making people feel even before you became a
known musician, just doing scores for television shows and creating
that emotional transition for things that we were seeing on television.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, like little shows like what was it Gray's.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Anatomy, And you've been around doing stuff even behind the
scenes that people wouldn't even know besides helping them therapeutically
and now with your music, which is pretty incredible stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah. And like I mentioned before, I always loved you know,
I'm a big Wes Anderson fan, so Royal Tannenbaum's Rushmore,
Grand Budapest Hotel, all those, and what an absolute genius
at at using music too to really highlight what's happening emotionally,
(17:11):
you know, And there's a there's a there's a scene
when in Royal Tennetbaumbs when Gwyneth Paltrow's character is walking
off a bus and it's the it's a Jackson Brown
song these days, but it was covered by it. I
believe it was Nico that covered it. And she's walking
off the bus in Slow My Mocean and like I
(17:33):
just remember seeing that, like ah, like that's the I
understand exactly what Ritchie, what Luke Wilson's character is feeling,
and that song with like if you change the song
or if you put no music on there, it just
doesn't hit the same way. So I always love them.
My music is is it even when it's on like
(17:53):
Jersey Shore or something like that, which which has happened before.
It's cool it. It's helping to convey something that would
be difficult to do just with with words or visuals alone.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think, oh yeah, I think all picture is nothing
without the music. I mean, picture can be powerful, but
the music really just just take me to that next level.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I agree, Yeah, I agree, Yeah, I agree with you.
I think it's a snob, but not to say that,
not to say that there are you know, wildly powerful
images that stand completely on their own of course, like
a you know, it doesn't have to be a musical.
There's plays that are just life changing, you know. But
for for me, you know, I like when I always
(18:36):
like when there's music happening too.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
What do you what songs in particular during those challenging
times depression, divorce, death, we've talked about all of it.
When you were going through those things in your life,
do you remember specific artists or bands that you turn to?
And on the flip side of that, how would you
suggest others utilize music to help them through challenging times.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, it's got It's been different at different stages. I
remember David Wilcox who not never got like a huge
which is a great injustice. He's an American singer, songwriter,
incredible guitar player, and really like upfront sentimental. I think
(19:20):
that's one of the reasons why maybe he never, you know,
completely blew up is because for some reason, sentimentality and
music is it hasn't been in vogue for a long time,
Like in the you know, I was thinking like John Denver,
who's one of my favorites of Annie's song, you fill
up my senses like night in the Forest, like you
can't you can't say that anymore. You can, but I
(19:44):
think people are like, uh, it's cringey or something. You know,
that's fine, but yet David Wilcox was one very early
on in in high school. A friend shared his music
with me, and I was a real rough go in
high school. I developed an eating disorder. I was really
(20:05):
depressed and it was it was it was a rough
rough patch. And there was one song in particular, it
was called hold It Up to the Light, and it's
about spirituality, and we don't have to go in on that,
but there was something about it that just made me
feel like, regardless of what's happening right now, things are
going to be okay later. Will Cox has always been
(20:26):
like a go to if there's a hard moment. Another
another big one for my last divorce record that I
don't know if I would have got through without it. It
was Mental Illness by Amy Mann, which which I think
she she finally won her first Grammy for, and that
(20:47):
record is that's a hard one to listen to, but
she's got a song on there called you Never Loved Me,
and that just that chorus that that book helped me
feel like it was okay to be angry about what
was happening. So no, I've got like a rolodex. It's
not that large, but of artists that kind of depending
(21:09):
on what I'm feeling, it's like, Okay, here's the prescription,
here's the pill, you know, And I mean, honestly, I
as far as how people get it, there's a million
different ways. But for me, I like to ask friends,
you know, like, what are they listening to? What's something
that's been really meaningful to you that you've heard in
the last year or something. Those are great conversations and
that's how I wouldn't have found David Wilcox. I probably
(21:31):
wouldn't have found Nick, Drake Soufi and Stevens artists that
have become my like just lifetime favorites.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
What would you say if you ever got to meet them?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I mean, I've gotten to me a couple folks that
I would I would say are heroes. And I kept
it real chill. I just said very point, like when
I met I met Ben Gibberd a death cab for
Cutie and I'm a really big fan of his and
I just I walked up and I said, Ben, I
don't want to bother you. I just wanted you to
(22:05):
know that Plans is a really really important record for me.
Thank you for thanks for making that And he said thanks,
and I walked away. I don't want to bug anybody.
You know, he's probably heard that a few million times,
but I think I would just say thank you.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think it's interesting for people to hear that, because
it takes a lot to walk up to somebody that
you look up to like that, especially someone who's famous
or that you listen to their music, And it's nice
to know that you do that too with other people
in your industry, and for people to hear that, because
we are all human, it's not it's important, and especially
(22:43):
if someone's helping you to heal, why wouldn't you want
to take that opportunity to thank them and tell them.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I mean the day that, the day that I stopped
being a fan of music, I probably have no business
writing songs anymore, because then what am I doing? You know? Yeah? No,
I god no. There have been a lot of artists.
I mean, it's Soufi and Stevens. Like I said, he's
probably probably my favorite ever, I think at this point,
(23:09):
and his music's gotten me through a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Well, William fitz Simmons, you have to keep I could
talk to you for hours. Just keep making that incredible
medicine called music that you do. And thank you for
all of that powerful music that you put out there.
And I hope everyone takes a listen. William Fitzimmons, your
new album is Incidental Contact and it's out now. And
(23:33):
thank you so much for being on Music Save Me
and helping us try to figure out what it is
exactly about music that helps us all so much.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And I hope you come back again soon.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I would love to thank you so much
Music saved me to be This is just this is neurology.
You know, somebody can tell me it's okay that you're
going through a season of depression right now, and that
can be powerful if I hear someone telling me that.
But there's also beautiful music that's happening at the same time.
It sort of puts it on steroids, for lack of
(00:20):
a better term.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm Lyn Hoffman and welcome to the Music Save Me podcast,
the podcast where we talk with musicians about their personal
stories that transform into their powerful music. Music Save Me
is also a proud supporter of musicians on call. On
this episode, we are so happy to have singer songwriter
William Fitzimmons, who definitely knows a thing or two about
(00:42):
the healing and transformative powers of music. He has some
great new music out that we'll get to as well
as talk about how music affected him and in essence,
transformed his life. William Fitzsimmons, Welcome to Music Save Me.
It's so great to have you here.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
It's wonderful to be here. Thanks. Lynn.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Well, you're not only an incredible talented musician and songwriter
and engineer and producer, but you also have which I
find so incredibly interesting. A master's degree in mental health therapy,
and prior to your successful career in music, you worked
as a mental health therapist. So that makes you just
about the most perfect guest for this show that I
(01:21):
could get. So my first question to you is do
you believe that music has healing powers?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
It'd be crazy if I said no, right now, right,
and then well see you guys, letter really do Yeah?
And I never I was not a music therapist. I
worked with music therapist. I did impatient for about five
years in Camden, New Jersey, and we would occasionally have
(01:49):
music therapist that would come in and I thought it
was fascinating. But at that point I had never put
the two together in anything more than just an experiential way.
Music could my entire life was a healing force. But yeah,
I didn't know it in a professional manner, but I
(02:10):
always knew that in my personal life it was wildly transformative.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
When did you realize that it was a huge part
of your calling in life? And did your unique childhood
upbringing have anything to do with it?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah? Yeah, of course I think so. My parents are
both blind, I'm supposed to say visually disabled, but they
stay blind. So I feel like I can probably stay
blind too. And the thing that I realized of being
a peripheral part of that community of watching my parents
and the organizations they were part of and their friends,
(02:47):
is that music. It was like this. It was like
a leveling force where like my dad is an amazing organist,
wonderful organ player, he just doesn't need his eyes. It
would be lovely if he could, you know, when he's
when he's learning a new bach piece or something. If
he could site read it, that would be great. But
(03:08):
to actually experience to play music, to sing a song
with somebody else, you just don't need to see to
do that. And so in our family, that was one
of the very few things that we could fully connect
on and be in the same level. So I think
even as a kid, you know, not like not being
able to have eye contact with my mom as like
(03:29):
a toddler, which you don't know it when you're three
or four, but you feel it, you know. But she
would sing like John Denver songs to me and I
would start sing them with her, and so there was
no disconnect at that point. So I had the understanding
of how connect at the very least, how connecting. Music
can be and it's cheesy, but it actually brings people together.
(03:55):
It's one of the few things that can do that
in a really powerful way.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I don't think that's cheesy at all. Think it's incredible
and what a skill to be given to you at
such a young age. And you didn't even realize the
extent of no idea.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, it was just something really special. That's why I
didn't think of it as as a job, you know.
I was like, well, no, of course, I'm going to
play music, that's what you know. I'm going to be
that annoying the guy with the acoustic guitar on college campus,
like singing Wonderwall, like trying to get all the girls
to come over and listen to them, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
With the puppy and the guitar case.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I maybe that's why I didn't work that well, that would.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Have been h Well, you know I've read that you'd
once said about your job description as a musician that
pretty much you have to write about the hard shit
and nothing's off limits in your private life. What allows
you to be so profoundly open about the personal aspects
of your life.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's how my mom has always been where nothing really
was off limits, and like even to an uncomfortable level.
So I had that education pretty young where you know,
she when when my parents split up and we stayed,
my mom had full custody. She's a very open emotional person,
(05:14):
and for better or worse, that was kind of the
That was the experience that I That was the modal
experience that I had of encountering emotions was being fully
free to talk about like I'm angry, I'm sad. You know.
It was that and frankly just the training for being
a therapist. If if you're unwilling to sit in a
room with somebody and then literally described like the darkest,
(05:38):
most difficult stuff, you're never going to make it. So
it's really sink or swim like that. You know. It's
one thing when you're doing you're in grad school and
you're practicing with your your peers and they're making up
problems they have, and then all of a sudden, you're
in your internship and someone is weeping and they're talking
about a parent that died, like you have to you
(06:00):
either can show up and sit with them in that pain,
or it's time to find a new job. So it
really I don't give myself much credit for it. That's
just the experiences that I had, And I was ready
when I started writing my own songs, like I don't
want to talk about you know, boring, ineffectual stuff like
to me, the fund's not the right word. I wanted
(06:24):
to talk about the really hard stuff because that's where
I saw the most change and the most reward for
everybody in the room.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean, to some degree, we all sort of struggle
in our own ways with so many similar things, but
nobody really ever talks about it. So combined talking about
it with music, I would imagine that would probably be
like the pinnacle of Yeah, just layter all out there
and connecting with people.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, well there's there's good stalts, right, the whole is
greater than the some of its parts. And that's you know, music, film,
like any multi modal kind of art form. I think
it the more modes that you have in there, the
better you're able to bypass the frontal lobe, because to
(07:14):
be this is just this is neurology. You know, somebody
can tell me, you know, it's okay that you're going
through a season of depression right now, and that can
be powerful if I hear someone telling me that, but
there's also beautiful music that's happening at the same time.
I just I think it's like it's it sort of
(07:37):
puts it on steroids, for lack of a better term,
And I just think it goes right in and your
your defense mechanisms have a lot of difficulty fighting it
because you just you know, you listening to a song
and you start crying right and you have no idea
why that. That to me, that's the strength that music has.
I think it can get deeper quicker.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Well, let's talk about.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Your new project, Incidental Contact, and in particular your stepmom,
who I'm sorry to hear passed away. How did that
impact you and your music?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I mean, I it's you have to be careful with
some of these things that you write about. I remember
there was one I did a I did a piece
a long time ago, like a long form interview about
my third record that was about my first divorce. Can
I have to have to count on my fingers which
one it is? And I'm just kidding, okay, And like
(08:36):
everything was overwhelming and positive. There was great feedback on it,
but there was one comment which that that's why I
learned never to read internet comments where I was like,
what a what a disgrace? Two to make money off
of this? You know, this this painful like experience. And
I'm old enough now or I can look at that
and be like, oh that I see that person's point
(08:59):
and that's the reaction they had and for some reason
they were put off by it, and that's okay, Like
I have room for that. I felt like my intentions
were pretty pure, so I wasn't overly bothered by it,
but for you know, a day or two. But all
that to say, when Vicky, when my stepmom died, it
was a really big surprise. And writing is just that
(09:19):
that tends to be the tool that I've developed to
figure stuff out. It's really very similar to journaling, which
which I do on and off as well. That my
therapist got me into that years ago, but I had
already been doing that With writing songs, it just it
just helped me get stuff out that maybe I was
having trouble figuring out, like what am I actually feeling
(09:41):
right now? Am I'm angry? You know? Am I guilty
for maybe things that were left unseat or undone? And
so writing those songs really was just about Okay, the
we're in grief right now, let's start, let's start walking
through it. What do we do? Let's sit at the
piano and see what comes out. It was really that
(10:03):
it was that simple, and you know, it didn't fix everything,
but I think it got me, like to the next
stage where I could start figuring out what was next.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So many people are not fortunate enough to have people
in their lives to talk to, so having that skill
is huge.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
It'd be nicer. Mental health was not something that we
had to pay exorbit fees for. That's a different conversation.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
But something that you said right before, what you just
said too, I mean, it hits me even you know
where we're sitting here trying to figure out you know,
what is it about music that helps people so much
and also helps the people who create it, not just
the people who consume it or listen to it.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
And where do you draw.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That line of feeling like you're capitalizing for a better
word off of someone's pain when it actually is really
coming from your heart.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You're not.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
You don't do it for other reasons other than to
help those listening.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
In yourself, No, I'm just trying to buy a boat.
I figured the the best way to make money in
music and buy a boat is writing really really sad
folk music. And I nailed it. You know, the feedback
that I got really early on when I wasn't even
(11:25):
doing this, you know, as a career I was. I
just bought a really cheat I went to guitar Center.
I had a little bit of money from like Christmas
and birthday saved up when I was in grad school,
and I went and bought this little little recording box
and a really cheap microphone. Because that I had always
wanted to record music. I used to do a thing
(11:46):
where my parents had the high fi system and you
would my mom had a little radio shack mic and
you could record yourself singing, and then you'd put that
tape in the in the stereo, put a new tape
in the recorder, and you're multi tracking.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
I was so fascin I was like, this is the
coolest thing ever. But the feedback that I got really
early on from those songs was really really powerful stuff. Literally,
people were like, you know this this I'm going through
a divorce right now or a lot of like death.
Death was a big bit because I wrote about that
(12:25):
early on. You know, my father died a year ago
and this song really helped me. Oh I never really,
I never looked back after that. I was like, well, clearly,
even if other people are put off by it, the
great majority of people that are talking to me are
saying that's helping them. So if it's helping me get
stuff out, if it's helping them feel less alone, then
(12:47):
that's just a win, right.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Your music is described as inward looking, of course what
we're talking about. Can you tell us how you feel
when you visually see and feel people reacting in a
positive way to your music?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
How does how does it make you feel?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
It's great, It's it's so great. You have to like,
you have to check your ego, you know, and I
really do like performing. It's it's wonderful. It's one. I
feel so happy and comfortable on a stage. And part
of that is just we like the things that we
believe we're good at, and I think I'm half way
decent at doing that. But no, it's really I mean,
(13:30):
I've I've seen people sing along and cry and go
through a whole host of emotions and that's I mean,
that's it's incredible. But I you know, I also had
to temper that early on too, because you really do,
you start to feel like you're real important. I can
help people go through emotion that's dangerous even as a therapist,
(13:52):
like you have to recognize it's not you, you know,
you you're you're essentially just reflecting back what they're going
through and helping them move a little forward. There's no
you know, I'm not a magician or something. So I
do love it. I'm not gonna lie, but I always like,
I always like the grounding experience of like having somebody
that's just looking at their phone while I'm singing about
(14:16):
like the biggest heartbreak of my life and they could
give two craps about what's happening. That's actually kind of
beautiful too, because you're like, dude, you're just a dude
up here with the guitar man. Calm down, you know,
keeping it real.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
That's that's very important, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And speaking of that, though, why do you think it
is so hard for people to look inward? And you know,
and the better way of putting it is, why do
you think it's so hard for people to be able
to laugh at themselves?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
It hurts it's scary. There's a lot more fun stuff,
you know what I mean, Like there's really funny TV shows,
you know, and there's like there's cal zones, you know
what I mean, And those things are so much more fun.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Did you know cal zones?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, it's my favorite food.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
It's gonna say, yeah, that's my that's my Bengo card.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
It's not fun. Nobody wants to even for me, which
I really like. I enjoy being emotional as like, ask
my wife, you know, it's one of my favorite things. Oh,
here's another deep conversation. It's it's just because it's hard.
It doesn't it doesn't feel good, you know. It's it's
like listening to I would like more challenging me, like
(15:28):
a Radiohead record. It feels amazing, but it's so good
and it's complicated that it doesn't always feel like andy
on the first listen. Right, It's like a really good
meal that it takes a lot of time to digest.
So yeah, I don't fault anybody that I tend to
think that people that are like really put off by
(15:49):
my music are you know, they might just not be
ready to experience or they just hate it. But that's fine. Too.
You know, people have a different preparedness, different readiness. You know,
I would never recommend, for example, somebody do therapy if
they're not ready for it. You know, it's just gonna
be a waste of time and money. There has to
(16:11):
be like a little spark of Okay, this thing happened,
I'm ready to start thinking about it. Well.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, it's interesting if I look back across your career,
you've been making people feel even before you became a
known musician, just doing scores for television shows and creating
that emotional transition for things that we were seeing on television.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, like little shows like what was it Gray's.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Anatomy, And you've been around doing stuff even behind the
scenes that people wouldn't even know besides helping them therapeutically
and now with your music, which is pretty incredible stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah. And like I mentioned before, I always loved you know,
I'm a big Wes Anderson fan, so Royal Tannenbaum's Rushmore,
Grand Budapest Hotel, all those, and what an absolute genius
at at using music too to really highlight what's happening emotionally,
(17:11):
you know, And there's a there's a there's a scene
when in Royal Tennetbaumbs when Gwyneth Paltrow's character is walking
off a bus and it's the it's a Jackson Brown
song these days, but it was covered by it. I
believe it was Nico that covered it. And she's walking
off the bus in Slow My Mocean and like I
(17:33):
just remember seeing that, like ah, like that's the I
understand exactly what Ritchie, what Luke Wilson's character is feeling,
and that song with like if you change the song
or if you put no music on there, it just
doesn't hit the same way. So I always love them.
My music is is it even when it's on like
(17:53):
Jersey Shore or something like that, which which has happened before.
It's cool it. It's helping to convey something that would
be difficult to do just with with words or visuals alone.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
I think, oh yeah, I think all picture is nothing
without the music. I mean, picture can be powerful, but
the music really just just take me to that next level.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I agree, Yeah, I agree, Yeah, I agree with you.
I think it's a snob, but not to say that,
not to say that there are you know, wildly powerful
images that stand completely on their own of course, like
a you know, it doesn't have to be a musical.
There's plays that are just life changing, you know. But
for for me, you know, I like when I always
(18:36):
like when there's music happening too.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
What do you what songs in particular during those challenging
times depression, divorce, death, we've talked about all of it.
When you were going through those things in your life,
do you remember specific artists or bands that you turn to?
And on the flip side of that, how would you
suggest others utilize music to help them through challenging times.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, it's got It's been different at different stages. I
remember David Wilcox who not never got like a huge
which is a great injustice. He's an American singer, songwriter,
incredible guitar player, and really like upfront sentimental. I think
(19:20):
that's one of the reasons why maybe he never, you know,
completely blew up is because for some reason, sentimentality and
music is it hasn't been in vogue for a long time,
Like in the you know, I was thinking like John Denver,
who's one of my favorites of Annie's song, you fill
up my senses like night in the Forest, like you
can't you can't say that anymore. You can, but I
(19:44):
think people are like, uh, it's cringey or something. You know,
that's fine, but yet David Wilcox was one very early
on in in high school. A friend shared his music
with me, and I was a real rough go in
high school. I developed an eating disorder. I was really
(20:05):
depressed and it was it was it was a rough
rough patch. And there was one song in particular, it
was called hold It Up to the Light, and it's
about spirituality, and we don't have to go in on that,
but there was something about it that just made me
feel like, regardless of what's happening right now, things are
going to be okay later. Will Cox has always been
(20:26):
like a go to if there's a hard moment. Another
another big one for my last divorce record that I
don't know if I would have got through without it. It
was Mental Illness by Amy Mann, which which I think
she she finally won her first Grammy for, and that
(20:47):
record is that's a hard one to listen to, but
she's got a song on there called you Never Loved Me,
and that just that chorus that that book helped me
feel like it was okay to be angry about what
was happening. So no, I've got like a rolodex. It's
not that large, but of artists that kind of depending
(21:09):
on what I'm feeling, it's like, Okay, here's the prescription,
here's the pill, you know, And I mean, honestly, I
as far as how people get it, there's a million
different ways. But for me, I like to ask friends,
you know, like, what are they listening to? What's something
that's been really meaningful to you that you've heard in
the last year or something. Those are great conversations and
that's how I wouldn't have found David Wilcox. I probably
(21:31):
wouldn't have found Nick, Drake Soufi and Stevens artists that
have become my like just lifetime favorites.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
What would you say if you ever got to meet them?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I mean, I've gotten to me a couple folks that
I would I would say are heroes. And I kept
it real chill. I just said very point, like when
I met I met Ben Gibberd a death cab for
Cutie and I'm a really big fan of his and
I just I walked up and I said, Ben, I
don't want to bother you. I just wanted you to
(22:05):
know that Plans is a really really important record for me.
Thank you for thanks for making that And he said thanks,
and I walked away. I don't want to bug anybody.
You know, he's probably heard that a few million times,
but I think I would just say thank you.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
I think it's interesting for people to hear that, because
it takes a lot to walk up to somebody that
you look up to like that, especially someone who's famous
or that you listen to their music, And it's nice
to know that you do that too with other people
in your industry, and for people to hear that, because
we are all human, it's not it's important, and especially
(22:43):
if someone's helping you to heal, why wouldn't you want
to take that opportunity to thank them and tell them.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
I mean the day that, the day that I stopped
being a fan of music, I probably have no business
writing songs anymore, because then what am I doing? You know? Yeah? No,
I god no. There have been a lot of artists.
I mean, it's Soufi and Stevens. Like I said, he's
probably probably my favorite ever, I think at this point,
(23:09):
and his music's gotten me through a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Well, William fitz Simmons, you have to keep I could
talk to you for hours. Just keep making that incredible
medicine called music that you do. And thank you for
all of that powerful music that you put out there.
And I hope everyone takes a listen. William Fitzimmons, your
new album is Incidental Contact and it's out now. And
(23:33):
thank you so much for being on Music Save Me
and helping us try to figure out what it is
exactly about music that helps us all so much.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And I hope you come back again soon.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I would love to thank you so much
Host
Lynn Hoffman
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