January 7, 2025 • 44 mins
Join @thebuzzknight with Jeff and Steven McDonald, the brothers who created the punk rock, alternative band Redd Kross. They are the subject of a new documentary "Born Innocent" which chronicles the history and influence of Redd Kross.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk, A lot of time, stuff that I write.
Then after I all this go and I can't sell this.
So yeah, I just can't and that I know it's
not either not the right time to do it or
it's not right at all.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to another episode of Taking a Walk, where we're
joined today by Jeffrey and Stephen McDonald, the dynamic brother
duo behind the influential rock band Red Cross. These punk
rock pioneers are here to chat about their new documentary,
Born Innocent, The Red Cross Story, which is making waves
in the music documentary scene. From their early days as
(00:35):
teenage punks opening for Black Flag to becoming influential figures
in the grunge and powerpop movements, Red Cross has maintained
a unique position in rock history for over four decades.
Join us as we take a stroll with Jeffrey and
Stephen McDonald exploring the highs, lows, and everything in between
of their remarkable career, all captured in their new documentary
(00:59):
Born in Is It The Red Cross Story? Coming up
now on Taking a Walk with Buzz Night.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, welcome you to Matinee Idols to the Taking a
Walk Podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Thanks for being.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On, but thanks for having us.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
So if you could, since it's called taking a walk,
if you could take a walk with any celebrity or musician,
dead or alive, who would it be.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh, they're actually taking a walk, and I'm trying to
think of where I want to walk first. It might
be kind of fun to walk with Bach down Wilshire
Boulevard with who sure, walk walk with Bach?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Bach the composer, Yes, yes, okay, Jay C. Bach. There's
a lot of them, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Johann Sebastian Bach. Okay, yeah, I walked down from town
Santa Monica would be fine. It would be really fun walk. Yeah,
imagine like just just how stripped out it would be
by all the latest inventions of the twenty first century.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Uh huh, that's both searching for fun.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I thought you meant Sebastian Bach.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, sure that might be fun too, because Sebastian
Bach is a huge like deep cut kiss bad. So
there is a language that we do speak in common.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
So you would like, maybe you would like to take
a walk with Johan Sebastian Back and Sebastian Bach on Wilshure.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
On Wilshire from Korea town to town monk.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Have you done that? Well, I know you're planning to
doing that walk.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's the next walk I'm actually planning on doing with you.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Actually, yeah, I'm down that that. And just for people
that don't live in Los Angeles, that's like a five
mile walk or something twelve mile twelve mile, so you
do both ways or what would happened?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So you go from Vermont to you know, all the
way to the beach.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
How are you getting to VERMONTA you're dropping your car
at the Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, well so yeah, that's
probably a little bit more than you bargain for, buzz,
But Jeff wants to take a twelve mile walk? Are
you okay with that? Totally?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I could tell I'm going to be in tears through EPI,
which I love. I love the documentary Guys, Born Innocent
is so wonderful. Tell me how it came together, the
whole project? Okay, well we did.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
There was someone I wish I could remember his name,
but there was a director who started.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It like Eric something, Eric something, Eric Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
But the cinematographer stayed the same, Steve Appleford. Steve Appleford
is technically the person who worked on the film the longest,
and that was like ten years ago. And then about
eight years ago or a little bit more than that,
and that kind of fizzled because the director realized this
is a complicated story and it's guy. I don't know
(04:17):
if he I think he just was like, this is
too much for me to take on, or maybe something
happened in his life. I'm not sure, but we stopped
hearing from him. And then about eight years ago, Andrew
Reich reached out to me through mutual friends, and he
very earnestly asked me, and I was impressed because he
(04:40):
was the showrunner at Friends for like eight years that
the hit TV sitcom, and I was surprised that he
was interested in our little underground rock band. But he,
as it turned out, had a deep love of the
(05:00):
world that we came from. And although you would think
he's only aligned with mainstream things, he's actually very obsessive
about a lot of underground culture.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
He's very into hardcore, which I only recently discovered, right.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Because Jeff's daughter is in a hardcore band.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Well only recently discovered.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Come on, yes, I mean we were like other faiths
of hardcore.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We were adjacent to the birth of hardcore, but I
ignored it for forty five year, forty years.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
He was trying to pretend it wasn't happening.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, but your parents were supportive and still are supportive
to this day.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
How did that happen?
Speaker 5 (05:53):
How did that happen? Well, we can take credit for that.
That's just naturally what they brought to the table, their support.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I think they found it interesting because we were We
were the only only kids, the only teenagers who are
even trying to play in a band, much less a
rock band or a punk rock band. We were very
unique in that sense. Do you mean like.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Amost Our family or do you mean like on our.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I'm saying in our whole neighborhood there were no neighbor
There were no any anything. So we were doing something
interesting and there was Kevin Newman had a band, have
a band, couldn't get it together to have a band.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Well, he had like a cover band.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I remember how No, No, that was like this friend
of mine, the only other person I knew when we
were in junior high school. He had an electric guitar
and we put together like a fake band to play
the talent show. And I said I would sing. I'd
never sang before, but he was going to do Snakeskin
(06:54):
Cowboy by Ted Nugent, and I looked at the lyrics.
They were so stupid. I just I just reknew. I said,
I can't do that. Oh and I was seventh grade.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Yeah, at twelve or thirteen. Jeff took a pass. And
it's funny because at the time I probably thought he
chickened out, But now I think I believe him that
he really just thought the lyrics for two scoopy.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I just thought I can't sell this. I can't
sell this.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Song at all.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I really felt that. I didn't. I didn't use that
term then, but I that's feeling I got ever since now,
Like when there's something that comes across that like a
lot of time stuff that I write, then after I
all just go, I can't sell this. So yeah, I
just can't. And that I that I know it's not
(07:40):
either not the right time to do it or it's
not right at all.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
What are the lyrics? Just next can count? But I
know there's who the hell you think you are?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
You read my mind?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, it's just a dumb song. It's just it's just
there's nothing offensive about it.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
I'm gonna look him up right now, I'm in front
of my computer to look up snake skin cowboy lyrics.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Maybe he was, like I think it was about Tetnugent making,
you know, giving some shades of some dude who was
peak hawking around, you know, someone within their vicinities.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Okay, here you go. Ooh, snake skin cowboys. Oh it's cowboys.
Who well you think you are? You're dancing around with
your high heeled boots. Don't you don't think that should
get you far? Just hanging around with your fancy pants on.
Ain't got nothing on me. Think you got a ride
here on the stage? Stick around, boys, Maybe I can
(08:35):
set you free.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Okay, I know exactly what that song is. Probably about.
That song was about Ted Nugent's bitterness for the explosion
of popularity of Grand Funk Railroad.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
Oh see, you think it's a Mark. It's a Mark Farner.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, it's Mark Varner. You know they kind of came
from the same scene. And then and then Mark Farner
exploded all right, yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
You're helping with your best pants on. That sounds like
Mark Farner.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
You know, I think I could probably relate to that
song now though, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Give me a break. Why are you so mental?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Because the song was very judgmental.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Now I'm going back to my old stands. You just
chickened ou see no way.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I want to see you saying that song. The next
Red Cross performance, Steven will be performing his rendition and
Snake's Good Cowboy, and I'm going to sell the Hellever.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I can't wait. Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Now you guys have had an obsession with Grand Funk
Railroad going back to the Spirit of seventy six.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well, yeah, we liked Grand Funk Rebber, but we kind
of just we discovered their first two kind of acid
rock albums. The Spirit of seventy six grands Buck was
more the seventies version that was. I would have to
hand that over to the writer, director, Lucas Reiner. He
was the one who was obsessed with them because we
didn't know their name. We didn't know Don Brewer. Are
(10:02):
what's the other guy?
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Don something?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
Yeah, Don Brewer. That sounds right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
This is a drum yeah, yeah, Like there's an actual
line where they named they named check all three members
of the original band.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
They were like Don Brewer, Mark Farner, which I have
Mark Farner hair.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Is something but satchel. Is it satchel something?
Speaker 5 (10:24):
I don't know, but it's funny because I just did
a Q and A in Phoenix for the movie. I
went by myself and that was one of the questions.
Someone asked me if I could remember all the members
of Grand Funk Railroad, and I choked. I said, Mark Farner,
and then I.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Now you can add Don Brewer. But find out who
the other guy.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, I took a stab and I think I said
someone from Mountain. I said, I don't know, Felix Pappalardi.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
That's Mountain. That's the bass player Mountain and the producer
of Cream.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Yeah, very good. It was killed by his girl, Jelly girl,
a steemed bass player.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
He was killed by his girlfriend.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Why I have a lot in common with him. I
had a crazy girlfriend too.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Mark Farner was on this podcast and I want to
get your take on something he said. He said the
creation of Closer to Home was a moment of divine intervention.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Well, Mark Varner would say that because he isn't he like,
I'm hardcore Jesus freak. Now, I mean, I don't mean
I mean freaking. The most positive way to Jesus. Yeah,
I imagine. You know, all creation, all musical creation, is divine,
you know, inspiration on some on some level. Yeah, we're inspired.
(11:48):
We are inspired a lot by Divine. There's a lot
of like female troubleisms in our music.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So when you say divine inspiration, you literally mean the
actor Divine.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's what Mark Farner must have met, the actor Vine.
I see. I see a connection between Divine, the actor,
the actress actor, and Mark Farner.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Okay, all right, I don't think that Mark was talking
about female trouble inspiration. But that's that's fun.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
That's the first thing that came to mind because I thought,
oh she meant he meant divine inspiration.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Now because then you brought up the youth of Jesus. Freak.
But whatever, it's all good.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
You know, Divine.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Three days before Divine mysteriously passed away.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I interviewed Divine.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm you're going to make me go back and now
find that air check of that interview.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
It might have been the last interview.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Honestly, Wow, amazing with Divine or Glenn or I don't
know how.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The Vine, I think, yeah Vine, yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
And and and so it was a mysterious I didn't really.
I didn't really. I don't really know much about Divine's past,
but they were fine. When you talk to Divine.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Everything was seen just just hunky dory.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, that's like sudden.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, this is so easy to go and it's so
beautiful to go down rabbit holes with you guys, which,
by the way, is the way the documentary is. It's
one rabbit hole after another, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, But I think he controlled it, like that was
where you have to handle so too. Andrew, he really
helped it, you know, kind of tie it all together
to make sense, because yeah, there are there are so
many rabbit holes we can go down with Red Cross.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
It's like an ADHD nightmare. And that's one of the
things I've said several times now and interviews that you know,
Andrew really he could clean my junk drawer any day
because he's really good at making organized sense out of
total chaos.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You guys had a lot going on since the moment
you started one you were fifteen and eleven, respectively.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Is that is that right? When you guys started out?
Speaker 5 (14:14):
That's true?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
And did you have any idea whether this band would
exist for a week two weeks?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
When you started. I mean, what did you think was
going to happen at eleven?
Speaker 5 (14:29):
I couldn't imagine fifty I had no idea what that was,
so I didn't think about the band. I don't think
I could even imagine what I would be like at
fifty seven, much less the band.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know, But I think at that age it's like
the one time in your life you can actually live
in the moment, maybe because what you get older, you
just always tripping on the theater, are freaking out about
the past.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
That's true, because there's not much pass to trip out on,
and then the future you don't know anything about it,
so you kind of just and then time you're really really.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, there's so many characters that are in the documentary
and part of your life. Uh, and part of the
band just drummers alone? Was is it nine drummers that
came through Red Cross?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I don't, well, we actually we actually only count drummers
who are on record. That's not the other ones don't exist.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
That's that's not fair.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
You think about it, think about it.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Well, pretty much all of them are on records, all
even I'm sorry, but Glenn Hollands on records. What he's
on on the Desperate Teenage Loved All soundtrack, the uh
the cover of Purple hay Is and that's that's on
(15:54):
that soundtrack. And I think there's a couple of yeah,
I think a couple of the songs from the Desperate
Teenage Loved All soundtrack. I think he's I want to
be a solo chick that song? Remember that song?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, But I mean so.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
That's whatever you can to exclude him somehow. Yeah, not
to screw that one. I'm sorry, sorry for you. Look
at that.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Some moted.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
If there were to be a biopic done on you, guys,
who would play you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Well, I would if he's good enough for Dylan, he's
good enough for me.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
But he's too he's too short to play it.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Who cares, I don't care. Wall actor Timothy Shallow May
could play David Cassidy in our story. So when we
go to make so we have to get some tall
some tall guys. And then when we go and then
in the part where they have the spiritus, every six
section will be perfect because he's tiny like David Cassidy.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Tony Tanil can play me, and maybe the Captain will
play you.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
We both have the Captain's mustache now and is probably
not with us anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Darryl he passed year too.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Yeah, I think we could play. We could have played
Darryl Dragon. Jeff and I could share the role of
Darryl Dragon and the Tony Captain.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
And to Neil, movie is Dennis Dragon Soul Lives?
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Is that the brother from the Surf Punks? Yeah, I
don't know. I haven't kept kept tags.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
There was a surf Punks were kind of influential on
on We were going to do too Big for her
top on on teen Babes from Monsanto album, but we
we had to. We tossed it the last sime.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
You know, it's funny. I don't remember that that discussion,
but okay, that's a surf punk deep cut?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Is is Monsanto? Do you think you're your true classic
of all? Is that the one?
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Yeah? We didn't write any of the songs, so that's definitely.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Ours just some but I mean some people it is
their classic, but no, I mean for us, it was
it was just a fun kind of exercise.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
Well, I like what Jeff says in the documentary. He says,
that's when we came out as rock stars.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
It is. It's when we just fully just blew it
out there, and you know, and it was and it
wasn'tn exercise and we were we were so snobby at
the time. Were we felt that the scene we were
in needed a rock and real education, some kind of
So we were playing songs that were obscure to the
kids that were our peers at the time. Now it's
(18:49):
you know, everyone knows Kiss and the Stooges and the
Shannger Laws, but the hardcore kids of nineteen eighty two
had no ideent of these.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I mean, you were you'd say, it's it's pedanta fantic, pedantic.
I think that that word applies. It's like, you know,
we were schooling them and we were getting.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, we were, we were schooling them. But you know,
I mean now I have a much more humble connection
to that record than I did that, But.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
You know, it is it is one of the records
that Andrew Reich sites quite a bit as his entrance
point into Red Cross.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Now, you guys, I feel like have always gotten along
except for one thing, maybe the additional D and Red Cross.
Is that still something that's come between you two knuckleheads?
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, Well, we did think a chant on the new
record where we're trying. I've been trying to like just
cement it, somehow get it more into people's consciousness, because
every time I see our names spelled incorrectly, which there's
several opportunities, have several different ways to do it, I
always feel like it's a little bit of a reminder
(20:05):
of like, you're not famous.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, and I also think about I always think about
the and every time I see it, I am not
angry for myself. I'm sad for Steve Well, that's so fun,
I know, tarturing him. But you know what's weird about
it is it's you know, even today, like the headline
of an article will be spelled wrong, but it'll be
(20:29):
spelled correctly throughout the body of the article. That happens
all the time, so people would just start you know.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
The one I find the most interesting is R E
D D C R O S S.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
One which is almost never happened.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
It happens, though it does happen.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Do you think though it happens, people are just messing
with you?
Speaker 5 (20:51):
No, No, people, I I well, I just think that
I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe some, but I know that
I'm so I know how I am about names, and
I never want to get them wrong. So I just
assume that people are making a mistake, and I'm always
having to let them off the hook, like I mean,
I don't really care. Of course, I'd be like, oh no,
(21:13):
of course, I mean my mom calls me, Jeff, I don't.
It's all fine, but it is always a moment where
like if say, it has something to do with like
promoting the band, I have to correct people, and I
hate having to correct people. That's a drag, and you
know whatever, It's fine. But the point I did want
(21:35):
to make was it on our new album, we have
a song called Good Times Propaganda Band and it's under
It's sort of buried in the mix, but we do
do a chant at the end of the song where
we say yes two d's and the k hey, yes
two d's and kay hey.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So we're you know, we're we're trying to train out.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
If nothing else, that is our motivation for continuing to
do this, to get people to see how many people
we can get this to spell our name correctly before
we die.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And it could have been worse. We could have easily
spelled it with.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
The que there you go, well, I know what you.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Would have said. You would have said, it's cool. It's
like Stacey Q.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Was it influenced by Red Fox? Yes, yes, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Now you know now the word read I see it
a lot used in a hip hop world. It's very Yeah,
it's like ari E d D. It's really coming to
its own in the past, you know, like fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Probably inspired by Red Fox. Also because I mean, like,
has read a common name? Is it a common proper name?
And adding the second d, I guess kind of takes
it out of a nickname and into a proper name.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Would you ever consider a punk version of the Sanford
and Son theme.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I feel like we've the sack that being is pretty pomp.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
He began with dunt dum dump dum dum. What is that?
What is a juice harp? Or wow?
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Wow? I feel like it is what what? What? Why
do why not it?
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I'm clapping that, yeah, yeah that, But there's that that one.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It's got it's got that one drone instrument in the intro.
I don't know, it's.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Cool, we'll pick it apart.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
It's a it's a classic. I don't know who, I
don't know who the composer is on that.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
We're going to have to check on that.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You know, it sounds like Quincy Jones, but I don't
think you.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Know what I think it is. I think it is.
I think I recently just yeah, hang on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Because I know he did he did, didn't do too
many comedies.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Oh, that's amazing it.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
He just passed away recently.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I wonder how he felt about that in his in
his last years, about that part of his body of work.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Oh, I'm sure I was proud of it. It was
such a like I'm sure, I mean it was. That
was such a great piece of American television. You know,
it's a really good mainstream moment. I think totally, at
least from at least from my household's perspective. And my
dad loved Red Fox. My dad's sort of personality in
(24:19):
many ways, I would say were is informed by both
the Red Fox character from Sanfredin Son and also the
I'm forgetting the actor's name, but from uh, the Jefferson's
George Jefferson. Yeah, my dad walks like George Jefferson. Our
(24:40):
dad walks like George Jefferson, I think.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And then Red Fox was known before that show for
those infamous Party records, those Nasty Records.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
X rated comedy right, Ye on Laugh Record? Was that
lap record like they? Early early Richard Pryor was on
that same label, and yeah, early dirty comics want to pay? Well,
the Lawanda page is part of the Rudy Ray Mooresey.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
Well, that's also I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Is it on Joke Records though or whatever? Laugh Records?
I see the logo in my head.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
I can't.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
I can't too awfully they were filthies. It's all get
out though, that's for sure, they really were.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
But you guys, uh, it's evident in the documentary that
you guys are really.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Historians of pop culture.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You you were fixated on the Brady Bunch, You were
certainly fixated on the Partridge Family.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
You got to live out your dream and appear.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
With David Cassidy. How did you become such historians of
our time?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Well, I mean we were brainwashed by our time. We
came up in the seventies when you know, kids came
up from school and turned on TV and you know,
did it turn it off until bedtime. I mean we
would go out and play in my skateboards and stuff
like that. But yeah, we were, you know, raised by television.
(26:27):
Our parents never never viewed what we watched to make
sure it was appropriate for us. I mean not with television,
they didn't. I mean, when I had my own child,
I was very careful to kind of bet everything she consumed.
But in the seventies, it was kind of like the
programmers for the networks, they were the ones raising the children,
(26:49):
I guess.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
And there was only three networks then too. Imagine that, right,
Think about that.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
The Brady Bunch was always was always kind of an embarrassment.
I have to say, you know, we were like we
were Parkas family people. And it's not even It's not
even like Beatles or Stones. It's more like it's more
like Beatles or the Herman's Hermits, you know like that.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
I knew the Herman's Hermits.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Brady Bunch were more. Brady Bunch became more of an
influence when we got into LSD later.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Can you tell us the story of how your lives
intersected with David Bowie?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Well, I mean I can't. We I mean, that's more
of like a discovery from the documentary, because I think
it was more like a hazy memory when we learned
when we were reminded that David Bowie had been sighted
at the Hong Kong Cafe the same night that we
played our first nightclub show. But I mean David Bowie
(27:51):
had a huge impact on the two of us growing
up because we borrowed our uncle's copy of Ziggy Starred
Us on eight track tape Christmas of nineteen seventy two,
and we never gave it back to him, and that
changed us in a lot of ways. But by the
(28:11):
time nineteen seventy nine rolled around and we intersected, I
guess we shared oxygen in the same building that night,
But neither of us were particularly plugged into David Bowie's
music at that point, only because we had lost interest
around the time of Young Americans and when he went soul,
we just were looking for a harder edged sound and
(28:35):
we felt a little bit like we were in that
camp where we felt somewhat betrayed by his musical pivot,
and it was really the punk scene for me. When
I was surprised, I think I was probably surprised that
everybody was freaking out about Bowie because I assumed everybody
had tossed him away too, because he wasn't making you know,
(28:58):
heavy guitar music anymore. But that's not the case. Like
the punk rockers that we admired that we were around
at that time, we're all like leftovers from the glitter scene.
They were all kind of like weirdo art students and
people like that, and they were like Bowie obsessives, like
there was no way they were ever going to like
(29:19):
they were ever he was ever going to lose those people.
So I think, you know, it was sort of eye opening.
And I don't know about that night specific, it just
not the crew that I hung out with were such
Bowie fanatics that I reconsidered Bowie after that time, and
I realized, oh, I had missed low and I had
missed Heroes. And this was actually at the time that
(29:41):
he was about to make Our Lodger was about to
come out. So that's when I got back on his train.
Was around the around the time that he came to
our shore.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It's it's I love that part of the story, the
way that unfolded. So as you watched the documentary, are
there things that you sort of go, wow, I completely.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
The Bowie thing I forgot about totally completely. And it
was like thanks to people like our friend Ella Black
and you know, other people that were a little bit
older than us that were there and they remembered and
she had journaled about it, and it was like, oh
my god, right, wow, that's wild. But like that's what
that scene. That scene was so exciting to us that,
(30:27):
you know, I mean, because we were rubbing elbows with
our heroes that we held in the same esteem as
the classic rock heroes that we had had five ten
years earlier. Like for me, Mick Jagger, I mean, Darby
Crash was just as important as Mick Jagger, or more so,
like when Darby Crash died, it was the same week
(30:49):
as John Lennon's death, or the day before or after
day before, and I at that particular time, I was
more shaken by the death of Darby Krash than I
was of John Lennon. And you know, and these were
people that we were like, you know, playing shows with.
So it was a very thrilling moment for us to
(31:10):
be interacting with our heroes and you know, so yeah,
so the fact that Bowie was there that night. We
were probably also freaking out the Blenda Carlisle from the
go that the you know, the yet not really known
go gos were there, you know, or or whoever you know,
our pat bag might have been there and that would
(31:32):
have been a boolly big deal to us.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
There's another character that I wanted to ask you about,
Tracy Lee.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Tracy Lee.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yes, talk about.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
The the the mystery of Tracy Lee.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, she was a When we first started going to
shows in Hollywood, the scene was older than us. We
were like we were the kids, and Tracy was another
kid that we met. You know, she was the other
person who was exactly my age. Like we were like
fifteen when we started going to shows, and you know,
and so when we we had we were trying to
(32:08):
figure out what the new angle for Red Cross should
be like. When we were around the time Born Innocent,
before Born Innocent, we were putting the band back together
after Stevens hiatus when he returned, we just it was
like put the band back together, and oh I got
a great idea. Tracy Tracy Lee. She you know, she
(32:28):
played guitar with the group called Castration Squad, who were
an all girl death rock group for one of the
very first goth bands of all time, and we were
old friends with her, and I figured having her in
the band would be would like would be like out
of Brian Jones. She would she would be the fashion
center of our group, which she was on rhythm guitar,
(32:50):
un rhythm guitar. But yeah, she was like us, and
you know, we were all but she actually lived in Hollywood, Tracy.
You know, we lived. We were separate from Hollywood by
living in the suburbs, so we didn't get to go
there until years later. She walked to the Whiskey at
Go Go and saw the original Runaways play when she
was like thirteen, because she could, because she could because
(33:13):
she didn't live because she grew.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Up in Hollywood. And it's it's funny, like this kind
of relates what I was talking about, being thrilled by
local celebrities more so than you know a lot of
other people a bigger artist or whatever. Like many years later,
I was on tour with my hardcore band Off and
(33:37):
a really close friend of mine, Josh Klinghoffer, had just
joined the rid At Chili Peppers, and they were playing
a stadium down the road. This was in England and
I and so Josh invited me to the show, and like,
I knew Flee and Anthony way back, but just a
little bit, like I wouldn't expect them to necessarily know
my name. And they were excited that I was coming
(34:02):
to the show because they wanted to talk about Tracy Marshak.
That's her real lat's name, and they had gone to
school with her at Fairfax High. They had grown up
in Hollywood too, and this is like in twenty ten
or something, and they're like, so, what you know Tracy
Marsha Can I.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Like, yeah, everyone everyone was in awe.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
They were in awe of her. She was the cool
punk rock girl at Fairfax High. And they were maybe
a year younger than her or the same age, but
they were intimidated by her because she had she just
always had this cool mistique about her. I mean, I'm
sure at Fairfax at the time, she probably was a
bit of a loner or not necessarily like a popular
(34:47):
social or whatever. But for weirdos like Flee and Anthony,
they would have been like, you know, oogling over her
and obsessive about her, and that she was unapproachable on
some level. They still talked about her on that level,
which is so funny because of you know who they
are now and what they've lived.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
So tell us what it's like now creating new music
and what has changed in your guys. You know, style
and you know, collaboration practices.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Well, a style something that just comes and goes. It's
just something that's a natural part of it. I think
it's kind of filtered through whatever it is like for
me by speaking for myself, whatever I'm listening to is
kind of effects whatever style. But the process is, since
we've been doing this for so long, there's no set way.
I mean it's like we both write separately, we both
(35:45):
finish songs separately, we both write parts separately, we both
get together and write together. So there's just, you know,
so many ways to do it. There's isn't a set way,
and I think that's probably why we can still come
up with good stuff, because we're not stuck in at
of how to create our right music.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
That's true. I guess we've never really landed on a
formula and so it's still it's always you know, I
don't know. I mean this last time we wrote it
did feel different, It felt a little different. Like we
were getting some unentreded territory and you know, I mean,
(36:25):
I know, it's cool. It's cool to check back in
and see like where we are as individuals and where
we are as a partnership. And this last time was
really fruitful and it seemed like maybe I would also
say the documentary, at least for me, the documentary had
a lot of it offered some inspiration as well.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
It's obvious watching you two in the documentary and now
how much you enjoy being together with each other. That's
not acting, is it.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, Now we are best friends, but we can also
really get each other, get on each other's nerves in
a deep level. But it's all that's all like normal,
you know. It's like we recover really quickly. When there's disagreements.
They may seem like you might have a disagreement even
though I could creative one that just seems like, oh,
(37:20):
you know, okam blah blah blah. But then you get
over very fast, you know. So I think that's maybe
that's you know, being brothers and the fact that there's
just the two of us and we grew up in
you know, very humble We grew up in the same bedroom,
you know, very.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Close our parents. As much as they've done some terrible
modeling of how to deal with and stress and anxiety,
I think they've also been really good models in the
terms of their partners. They they've been doing their own
small business since the eighties since maybe we started Red Cross,
(38:00):
before they started Omni Welding.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Oh yeah, we did. They started into age like eighty
three or something. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Okay, so they started their own small business in their
early eighties. But they've been partners, so to speak, for
you know, since before Jeff was born, and they still
work together. They still work together. They're in their eighties
and our dad is like eighty six now maybe, And
(38:28):
they still have their small welding company, Precision Welding Omni Welding.
If you need precision welding done in the South Bay
region of LA look them up on the work.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I'm kind of happy to reach hire suit that they
don't really want to know.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
They can know. They worked through COVID and they're in
great shape, and I think that's been a really positive
thing for them. And because they worked their COVID, because
they often would do government contracts, so much to our chagrin.
We were like, you know, I wanted to go do
their shopping for them, like, no, leave me alone, No,
we're working, but and whatever. But the point is that
(39:08):
they've I mean, I'd like to think that jeff and
I have evolved a little better. I mean, obviously we're brothers.
Is a different dynamic, but we're not quite as bickering
as they are. They are like world class bickers and
it's really dysfunctional.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
But they recovery quickly though, So that's the kind of
thing I think we may have learned the quick recovery, right, we.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
Can talk about recover quickly and yeah, maybe that's a
skill we've learned to push it to our toes.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Like, yeah, who knows, but everyone gets along for I'd
say eighty of the time these days they do.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
We do Jeffrey, what does Stephen do to make you better?
And Stephen, what does Jeffrey do to make you better?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Well, Steven's very thorough, very very analytical, and you know,
and I think sometimes I'm very flighty, and I just
go with my first response, you know, and a creative situation,
and sometimes it's good. It's sometimes it is good to
take a beat. So you know, Stephen has mate has
insisted that I take a beat before on certain things creatively,
(40:23):
and that's that's good. That's good. Otherwise I would just be,
you know, flying off the handle doing everything, you know,
on an impulsive level musically. But that's one thing I
can think of, because anyone who knows Steve but we
know he's he's the most analytical person. He's very very
intense that way, which is which, which is great, but
(40:44):
that's you know that that's also where we hit like
little you know, but butt head sometimes.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
Well, I mean, and I guess the flipside is that
I've become more at least with my rioting. I like
my first ideas better now than I used to. So
maybe that's Jeffson. What's I mean?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Well, guys, is there anything I've missed that you want
to say or talk about?
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Oh, we don't want? Well, the movie, the album it did,
the movie and the Red Cross self tit titled double album,
and and our book Now You're one of us, They're
all just they all fit together. So if if anyone
sees reads the books, sees the movie, buys the record
or whatever, and they need more, there is more.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
Yeah, I mean the only thing. I say, you can
go to Red Cross Film and that's RI D D
K R O S S film dot com to find
out if there's a screening anywhere in your area, because
if film is screening now, it's you know, sort of
a short, limited theatrical run, and then it will eventually
(41:51):
go into you know, another formats like DVD's, and then
I think they're gonna figure out some kind of hosting
situation to stream it, which I don't know that much about,
but there is distribution for that. But I would say
that if you know nothing about us and you're just
kind of intrigued sharing our conversation, that the documentary is
(42:12):
actually from what I can tell, it seems to be
engaging to people that know nothing about our music.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
It's really fun to watch with a with a with
an audience because it's funny, but it gets heavy, you know,
and it's musical, and it's.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
So it's like, yeah, you might not even be a
big music fan, but if you're a human being, you
might like the human elements of our story. And so
I just because it's a good entrance point into our world.
And then I would say if you watched the movie
and then you're intrigued to know more than I would
direct you towards our newest album, because we've been together
(42:49):
for so long that our catalog is pretty disparate, so
to speak. It's it's random like there, you know, there's
records from when we were thirteen, and there's records when
we were twenty three and thirty three and then, so
that we changed a lot in those times. But the
new album is a double album, so it's got a
it's got a long track listing, and it is a
(43:12):
good cross section of everything that we're capable of. And
and we just happened to land and as time would
have it, our fate or luck or whatever, we intersected
at an inspired moment with the opportunity to make a record.
So I think it's a really it's a great companion
for the uh, the movie and just learning about who
(43:34):
we are. I think it's a good entrance. It's a
good entrance. And then and then when that's done, if
you're not like completely nauseated by having too much Red
Cross in your world, then check out the book because
the book is a deep dive into much more tweaky
ear things than we got into today. But that's the
(43:54):
order of events. I suggest that's the analytical Steve that
jeff just called me out on.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
The documentary Born Innocent is fabulous. It is a saunter
through music history without a question.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
And Jeffrey and Stephen McDonald, I'm so glad that we
took this little walk down memory lane.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Thank you for being on.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Thanks for having us. It's fun.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk, A lot of time, stuff that I write.
Then after I all this go and I can't sell this.
So yeah, I just can't and that I know it's
not either not the right time to do it or
it's not right at all.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to another episode of Taking a Walk, where we're
joined today by Jeffrey and Stephen McDonald, the dynamic brother
duo behind the influential rock band Red Cross. These punk
rock pioneers are here to chat about their new documentary,
Born Innocent, The Red Cross Story, which is making waves
in the music documentary scene. From their early days as
(00:35):
teenage punks opening for Black Flag to becoming influential figures
in the grunge and powerpop movements, Red Cross has maintained
a unique position in rock history for over four decades.
Join us as we take a stroll with Jeffrey and
Stephen McDonald exploring the highs, lows, and everything in between
of their remarkable career, all captured in their new documentary
(00:59):
Born in Is It The Red Cross Story? Coming up
now on Taking a Walk with Buzz Night.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, welcome you to Matinee Idols to the Taking a
Walk Podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Thanks for being.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
On, but thanks for having us.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
So if you could, since it's called taking a walk,
if you could take a walk with any celebrity or musician,
dead or alive, who would it be.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh, they're actually taking a walk, and I'm trying to
think of where I want to walk first. It might
be kind of fun to walk with Bach down Wilshire
Boulevard with who sure, walk walk with Bach?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Bach the composer, Yes, yes, okay, Jay C. Bach. There's
a lot of them, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Johann Sebastian Bach. Okay, yeah, I walked down from town
Santa Monica would be fine. It would be really fun walk. Yeah,
imagine like just just how stripped out it would be
by all the latest inventions of the twenty first century.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Uh huh, that's both searching for fun.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I thought you meant Sebastian Bach.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yeah, yeah, sure that might be fun too, because Sebastian
Bach is a huge like deep cut kiss bad. So
there is a language that we do speak in common.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
So you would like, maybe you would like to take
a walk with Johan Sebastian Back and Sebastian Bach on Wilshure.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
On Wilshire from Korea town to town monk.
Speaker 5 (02:42):
Have you done that? Well, I know you're planning to
doing that walk.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
That's the next walk I'm actually planning on doing with you.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Actually, yeah, I'm down that that. And just for people
that don't live in Los Angeles, that's like a five
mile walk or something twelve mile twelve mile, so you
do both ways or what would happened?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So you go from Vermont to you know, all the
way to the beach.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
How are you getting to VERMONTA you're dropping your car
at the Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, well so yeah, that's
probably a little bit more than you bargain for, buzz,
But Jeff wants to take a twelve mile walk? Are
you okay with that? Totally?
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Totally.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
I could tell I'm going to be in tears through EPI,
which I love. I love the documentary Guys, Born Innocent
is so wonderful. Tell me how it came together, the
whole project? Okay, well we did.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
There was someone I wish I could remember his name,
but there was a director who started.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
It like Eric something, Eric something, Eric Yeah.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
But the cinematographer stayed the same, Steve Appleford. Steve Appleford
is technically the person who worked on the film the longest,
and that was like ten years ago. And then about
eight years ago or a little bit more than that,
and that kind of fizzled because the director realized this
is a complicated story and it's guy. I don't know
(04:17):
if he I think he just was like, this is
too much for me to take on, or maybe something
happened in his life. I'm not sure, but we stopped
hearing from him. And then about eight years ago, Andrew
Reich reached out to me through mutual friends, and he
very earnestly asked me, and I was impressed because he
(04:40):
was the showrunner at Friends for like eight years that
the hit TV sitcom, and I was surprised that he
was interested in our little underground rock band. But he,
as it turned out, had a deep love of the
(05:00):
world that we came from. And although you would think
he's only aligned with mainstream things, he's actually very obsessive
about a lot of underground culture.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
He's very into hardcore, which I only recently discovered, right.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Because Jeff's daughter is in a hardcore band.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Well only recently discovered.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Come on, yes, I mean we were like other faiths
of hardcore.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We were adjacent to the birth of hardcore, but I
ignored it for forty five year, forty years.
Speaker 5 (05:39):
He was trying to pretend it wasn't happening.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, but your parents were supportive and still are supportive
to this day.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
How did that happen?
Speaker 5 (05:53):
How did that happen? Well, we can take credit for that.
That's just naturally what they brought to the table, their support.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I think they found it interesting because we were We
were the only only kids, the only teenagers who are
even trying to play in a band, much less a
rock band or a punk rock band. We were very
unique in that sense. Do you mean like.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Amost Our family or do you mean like on our.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I'm saying in our whole neighborhood there were no neighbor
There were no any anything. So we were doing something
interesting and there was Kevin Newman had a band, have
a band, couldn't get it together to have a band.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Well, he had like a cover band.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I remember how No, No, that was like this friend
of mine, the only other person I knew when we
were in junior high school. He had an electric guitar
and we put together like a fake band to play
the talent show. And I said I would sing. I'd
never sang before, but he was going to do Snakeskin
(06:54):
Cowboy by Ted Nugent, and I looked at the lyrics.
They were so stupid. I just I just reknew. I said,
I can't do that. Oh and I was seventh grade.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Yeah, at twelve or thirteen. Jeff took a pass. And
it's funny because at the time I probably thought he
chickened out, But now I think I believe him that
he really just thought the lyrics for two scoopy.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I just thought I can't sell this. I can't
sell this.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Song at all.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I really felt that. I didn't. I didn't use that
term then, but I that's feeling I got ever since now,
Like when there's something that comes across that like a
lot of time stuff that I write, then after I
all just go, I can't sell this. So yeah, I
just can't. And that I that I know it's not
(07:40):
either not the right time to do it or it's
not right at all.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
What are the lyrics? Just next can count? But I
know there's who the hell you think you are?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
You read my mind?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, it's just a dumb song. It's just it's just
there's nothing offensive about it.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
I'm gonna look him up right now, I'm in front
of my computer to look up snake skin cowboy lyrics.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Maybe he was, like I think it was about Tetnugent making,
you know, giving some shades of some dude who was
peak hawking around, you know, someone within their vicinities.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Okay, here you go. Ooh, snake skin cowboys. Oh it's cowboys.
Who well you think you are? You're dancing around with
your high heeled boots. Don't you don't think that should
get you far? Just hanging around with your fancy pants on.
Ain't got nothing on me. Think you got a ride
here on the stage? Stick around, boys, Maybe I can
(08:35):
set you free.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Okay, I know exactly what that song is. Probably about.
That song was about Ted Nugent's bitterness for the explosion
of popularity of Grand Funk Railroad.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
Oh see, you think it's a Mark. It's a Mark Farner.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, it's Mark Varner. You know they kind of came
from the same scene. And then and then Mark Farner
exploded all right, yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
You're helping with your best pants on. That sounds like
Mark Farner.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
You know, I think I could probably relate to that
song now though, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
Give me a break. Why are you so mental?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Because the song was very judgmental.
Speaker 5 (09:15):
Now I'm going back to my old stands. You just
chickened ou see no way.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I want to see you saying that song. The next
Red Cross performance, Steven will be performing his rendition and
Snake's Good Cowboy, and I'm going to sell the Hellever.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I can't wait. Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Now you guys have had an obsession with Grand Funk
Railroad going back to the Spirit of seventy six.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Well, yeah, we liked Grand Funk Rebber, but we kind
of just we discovered their first two kind of acid
rock albums. The Spirit of seventy six grands Buck was
more the seventies version that was. I would have to
hand that over to the writer, director, Lucas Reiner. He
was the one who was obsessed with them because we
didn't know their name. We didn't know Don Brewer. Are
(10:02):
what's the other guy?
Speaker 5 (10:03):
Mark?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Don something?
Speaker 5 (10:07):
Yeah, Don Brewer. That sounds right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
This is a drum yeah, yeah, Like there's an actual
line where they named they named check all three members
of the original band.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
They were like Don Brewer, Mark Farner, which I have
Mark Farner hair.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Is something but satchel. Is it satchel something?
Speaker 5 (10:24):
I don't know, but it's funny because I just did
a Q and A in Phoenix for the movie. I
went by myself and that was one of the questions.
Someone asked me if I could remember all the members
of Grand Funk Railroad, and I choked. I said, Mark Farner,
and then I.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Now you can add Don Brewer. But find out who
the other guy.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, I took a stab and I think I said
someone from Mountain. I said, I don't know, Felix Pappalardi.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
That's Mountain. That's the bass player Mountain and the producer
of Cream.
Speaker 5 (10:57):
Yeah, very good. It was killed by his girl, Jelly girl,
a steemed bass player.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
He was killed by his girlfriend.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Why I have a lot in common with him. I
had a crazy girlfriend too.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Mark Farner was on this podcast and I want to
get your take on something he said. He said the
creation of Closer to Home was a moment of divine intervention.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Well, Mark Varner would say that because he isn't he like,
I'm hardcore Jesus freak. Now, I mean, I don't mean
I mean freaking. The most positive way to Jesus. Yeah,
I imagine. You know, all creation, all musical creation, is divine,
you know, inspiration on some on some level. Yeah, we're inspired.
(11:48):
We are inspired a lot by Divine. There's a lot
of like female troubleisms in our music.
Speaker 5 (11:53):
So when you say divine inspiration, you literally mean the
actor Divine.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
That's what Mark Farner must have met, the actor Vine.
I see. I see a connection between Divine, the actor,
the actress actor, and Mark Farner.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
Okay, all right, I don't think that Mark was talking
about female trouble inspiration. But that's that's fun.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
That's the first thing that came to mind because I thought,
oh she meant he meant divine inspiration.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Now because then you brought up the youth of Jesus. Freak.
But whatever, it's all good.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
You know, Divine.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Three days before Divine mysteriously passed away.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I interviewed Divine.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I'm you're going to make me go back and now
find that air check of that interview.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
It might have been the last interview.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Honestly, Wow, amazing with Divine or Glenn or I don't
know how.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
The Vine, I think, yeah Vine, yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
And and and so it was a mysterious I didn't really.
I didn't really. I don't really know much about Divine's past,
but they were fine. When you talk to Divine.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Everything was seen just just hunky dory.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, that's like sudden.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, this is so easy to go and it's so
beautiful to go down rabbit holes with you guys, which,
by the way, is the way the documentary is. It's
one rabbit hole after another, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, But I think he controlled it, like that was
where you have to handle so too. Andrew, he really
helped it, you know, kind of tie it all together
to make sense, because yeah, there are there are so
many rabbit holes we can go down with Red Cross.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
It's like an ADHD nightmare. And that's one of the
things I've said several times now and interviews that you know,
Andrew really he could clean my junk drawer any day
because he's really good at making organized sense out of
total chaos.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
You guys had a lot going on since the moment
you started one you were fifteen and eleven, respectively.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Is that is that right? When you guys started out?
Speaker 5 (14:14):
That's true?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
And did you have any idea whether this band would
exist for a week two weeks?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
When you started. I mean, what did you think was
going to happen at eleven?
Speaker 5 (14:29):
I couldn't imagine fifty I had no idea what that was,
so I didn't think about the band. I don't think
I could even imagine what I would be like at
fifty seven, much less the band.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know, But I think at that age it's like
the one time in your life you can actually live
in the moment, maybe because what you get older, you
just always tripping on the theater, are freaking out about
the past.
Speaker 5 (14:51):
That's true, because there's not much pass to trip out on,
and then the future you don't know anything about it,
so you kind of just and then time you're really really.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, there's so many characters that are in the documentary
and part of your life. Uh, and part of the
band just drummers alone? Was is it nine drummers that
came through Red Cross?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
I don't, well, we actually we actually only count drummers
who are on record. That's not the other ones don't exist.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
That's that's not fair.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
You think about it, think about it.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Well, pretty much all of them are on records, all
even I'm sorry, but Glenn Hollands on records. What he's
on on the Desperate Teenage Loved All soundtrack, the uh
the cover of Purple hay Is and that's that's on
(15:54):
that soundtrack. And I think there's a couple of yeah,
I think a couple of the songs from the Desperate
Teenage Loved All soundtrack. I think he's I want to
be a solo chick that song? Remember that song?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, But I mean so.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
That's whatever you can to exclude him somehow. Yeah, not
to screw that one. I'm sorry, sorry for you. Look
at that.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Some moted.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
If there were to be a biopic done on you, guys,
who would play you?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (16:34):
Well, I would if he's good enough for Dylan, he's
good enough for me.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
But he's too he's too short to play it.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
Who cares, I don't care. Wall actor Timothy Shallow May
could play David Cassidy in our story. So when we
go to make so we have to get some tall
some tall guys. And then when we go and then
in the part where they have the spiritus, every six
section will be perfect because he's tiny like David Cassidy.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Tony Tanil can play me, and maybe the Captain will
play you.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
We both have the Captain's mustache now and is probably
not with us anymore.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Darryl he passed year too.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Yeah, I think we could play. We could have played
Darryl Dragon. Jeff and I could share the role of
Darryl Dragon and the Tony Captain.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
And to Neil, movie is Dennis Dragon Soul Lives?
Speaker 5 (17:31):
Is that the brother from the Surf Punks? Yeah, I
don't know. I haven't kept kept tags.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
There was a surf Punks were kind of influential on
on We were going to do too Big for her
top on on teen Babes from Monsanto album, but we
we had to. We tossed it the last sime.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
You know, it's funny. I don't remember that that discussion,
but okay, that's a surf punk deep cut?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Is is Monsanto? Do you think you're your true classic
of all? Is that the one?
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Yeah? We didn't write any of the songs, so that's definitely.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Ours just some but I mean some people it is
their classic, but no, I mean for us, it was
it was just a fun kind of exercise.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
Well, I like what Jeff says in the documentary. He says,
that's when we came out as rock stars.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
It is. It's when we just fully just blew it
out there, and you know, and it was and it
wasn'tn exercise and we were we were so snobby at
the time. Were we felt that the scene we were
in needed a rock and real education, some kind of
So we were playing songs that were obscure to the
kids that were our peers at the time. Now it's
(18:49):
you know, everyone knows Kiss and the Stooges and the
Shannger Laws, but the hardcore kids of nineteen eighty two
had no ideent of these.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I mean, you were you'd say, it's it's pedanta fantic, pedantic.
I think that that word applies. It's like, you know,
we were schooling them and we were getting.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, we were, we were schooling them. But you know,
I mean now I have a much more humble connection
to that record than I did that, But.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
You know, it is it is one of the records
that Andrew Reich sites quite a bit as his entrance
point into Red Cross.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Now, you guys, I feel like have always gotten along
except for one thing, maybe the additional D and Red Cross.
Is that still something that's come between you two knuckleheads?
Speaker 5 (19:43):
Yeah, Well, we did think a chant on the new
record where we're trying. I've been trying to like just
cement it, somehow get it more into people's consciousness, because
every time I see our names spelled incorrectly, which there's
several opportunities, have several different ways to do it, I
always feel like it's a little bit of a reminder
(20:05):
of like, you're not famous.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Well, and I also think about I always think about
the and every time I see it, I am not
angry for myself. I'm sad for Steve Well, that's so fun,
I know, tarturing him. But you know what's weird about
it is it's you know, even today, like the headline
of an article will be spelled wrong, but it'll be
(20:29):
spelled correctly throughout the body of the article. That happens
all the time, so people would just start you know.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
The one I find the most interesting is R E
D D C R O S S.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
One which is almost never happened.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
It happens, though it does happen.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Do you think though it happens, people are just messing
with you?
Speaker 5 (20:51):
No, No, people, I I well, I just think that
I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe some, but I know that
I'm so I know how I am about names, and
I never want to get them wrong. So I just
assume that people are making a mistake, and I'm always
having to let them off the hook, like I mean,
I don't really care. Of course, I'd be like, oh no,
(21:13):
of course, I mean my mom calls me, Jeff, I don't.
It's all fine, but it is always a moment where
like if say, it has something to do with like
promoting the band, I have to correct people, and I
hate having to correct people. That's a drag, and you
know whatever, It's fine. But the point I did want
(21:35):
to make was it on our new album, we have
a song called Good Times Propaganda Band and it's under
It's sort of buried in the mix, but we do
do a chant at the end of the song where
we say yes two d's and the k hey, yes
two d's and kay hey.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
So we're you know, we're we're trying to train out.
Speaker 5 (21:55):
If nothing else, that is our motivation for continuing to
do this, to get people to see how many people
we can get this to spell our name correctly before
we die.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And it could have been worse. We could have easily
spelled it with.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
The que there you go, well, I know what you.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Would have said. You would have said, it's cool. It's
like Stacey Q.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
Was it influenced by Red Fox? Yes, yes, without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Now you know now the word read I see it
a lot used in a hip hop world. It's very Yeah,
it's like ari E d D. It's really coming to
its own in the past, you know, like fifteen years.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Probably inspired by Red Fox. Also because I mean, like,
has read a common name? Is it a common proper name?
And adding the second d, I guess kind of takes
it out of a nickname and into a proper name.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Would you ever consider a punk version of the Sanford
and Son theme.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
I feel like we've the sack that being is pretty pomp.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
He began with dunt dum dump dum dum. What is that?
What is a juice harp? Or wow?
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Wow? I feel like it is what what? What? Why
do why not it?
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I'm clapping that, yeah, yeah that, But there's that that one.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
It's got it's got that one drone instrument in the intro.
I don't know, it's.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Cool, we'll pick it apart.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
It's a it's a classic. I don't know who, I
don't know who the composer is on that.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
We're going to have to check on that.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You know, it sounds like Quincy Jones, but I don't
think you.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Know what I think it is. I think it is.
I think I recently just yeah, hang on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Because I know he did he did, didn't do too
many comedies.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
Oh, that's amazing it.
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
He just passed away recently.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I wonder how he felt about that in his in
his last years, about that part of his body of work.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Oh, I'm sure I was proud of it. It was
such a like I'm sure, I mean it was. That
was such a great piece of American television. You know,
it's a really good mainstream moment. I think totally, at
least from at least from my household's perspective. And my
dad loved Red Fox. My dad's sort of personality in
(24:19):
many ways, I would say were is informed by both
the Red Fox character from Sanfredin Son and also the
I'm forgetting the actor's name, but from uh, the Jefferson's
George Jefferson. Yeah, my dad walks like George Jefferson. Our
(24:40):
dad walks like George Jefferson, I think.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And then Red Fox was known before that show for
those infamous Party records, those Nasty Records.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
X rated comedy right, Ye on Laugh Record? Was that
lap record like they? Early early Richard Pryor was on
that same label, and yeah, early dirty comics want to pay? Well,
the Lawanda page is part of the Rudy Ray Mooresey.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
Well, that's also I don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Is it on Joke Records though or whatever? Laugh Records?
I see the logo in my head.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
I can't.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
I can't too awfully they were filthies. It's all get
out though, that's for sure, they really were.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
But you guys, uh, it's evident in the documentary that
you guys are really.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
Historians of pop culture.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You you were fixated on the Brady Bunch, You were
certainly fixated on the Partridge Family.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
You got to live out your dream and appear.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
With David Cassidy. How did you become such historians of
our time?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Well, I mean we were brainwashed by our time. We
came up in the seventies when you know, kids came
up from school and turned on TV and you know,
did it turn it off until bedtime. I mean we
would go out and play in my skateboards and stuff
like that. But yeah, we were, you know, raised by television.
(26:27):
Our parents never never viewed what we watched to make
sure it was appropriate for us. I mean not with television,
they didn't. I mean, when I had my own child,
I was very careful to kind of bet everything she consumed.
But in the seventies, it was kind of like the
programmers for the networks, they were the ones raising the children,
(26:49):
I guess.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
And there was only three networks then too. Imagine that, right,
Think about that.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
The Brady Bunch was always was always kind of an embarrassment.
I have to say, you know, we were like we
were Parkas family people. And it's not even It's not
even like Beatles or Stones. It's more like it's more
like Beatles or the Herman's Hermits, you know like that.
Speaker 5 (27:11):
I knew the Herman's Hermits.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Brady Bunch were more. Brady Bunch became more of an
influence when we got into LSD later.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Can you tell us the story of how your lives
intersected with David Bowie?
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Well, I mean I can't. We I mean, that's more
of like a discovery from the documentary, because I think
it was more like a hazy memory when we learned
when we were reminded that David Bowie had been sighted
at the Hong Kong Cafe the same night that we
played our first nightclub show. But I mean David Bowie
(27:51):
had a huge impact on the two of us growing
up because we borrowed our uncle's copy of Ziggy Starred
Us on eight track tape Christmas of nineteen seventy two,
and we never gave it back to him, and that
changed us in a lot of ways. But by the
(28:11):
time nineteen seventy nine rolled around and we intersected, I
guess we shared oxygen in the same building that night,
But neither of us were particularly plugged into David Bowie's
music at that point, only because we had lost interest
around the time of Young Americans and when he went soul,
we just were looking for a harder edged sound and
(28:35):
we felt a little bit like we were in that
camp where we felt somewhat betrayed by his musical pivot,
and it was really the punk scene for me. When
I was surprised, I think I was probably surprised that
everybody was freaking out about Bowie because I assumed everybody
had tossed him away too, because he wasn't making you know,
(28:58):
heavy guitar music anymore. But that's not the case. Like
the punk rockers that we admired that we were around
at that time, we're all like leftovers from the glitter scene.
They were all kind of like weirdo art students and
people like that, and they were like Bowie obsessives, like
there was no way they were ever going to like
(29:19):
they were ever he was ever going to lose those people.
So I think, you know, it was sort of eye opening.
And I don't know about that night specific, it just
not the crew that I hung out with were such
Bowie fanatics that I reconsidered Bowie after that time, and
I realized, oh, I had missed low and I had
missed Heroes. And this was actually at the time that
(29:41):
he was about to make Our Lodger was about to
come out. So that's when I got back on his train.
Was around the around the time that he came to
our shore.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
It's it's I love that part of the story, the
way that unfolded. So as you watched the documentary, are
there things that you sort of go, wow, I completely.
Speaker 5 (30:04):
The Bowie thing I forgot about totally completely. And it
was like thanks to people like our friend Ella Black
and you know, other people that were a little bit
older than us that were there and they remembered and
she had journaled about it, and it was like, oh
my god, right, wow, that's wild. But like that's what
that scene. That scene was so exciting to us that,
(30:27):
you know, I mean, because we were rubbing elbows with
our heroes that we held in the same esteem as
the classic rock heroes that we had had five ten
years earlier. Like for me, Mick Jagger, I mean, Darby
Crash was just as important as Mick Jagger, or more so,
like when Darby Crash died, it was the same week
(30:49):
as John Lennon's death, or the day before or after
day before, and I at that particular time, I was
more shaken by the death of Darby Krash than I
was of John Lennon. And you know, and these were
people that we were like, you know, playing shows with.
So it was a very thrilling moment for us to
(31:10):
be interacting with our heroes and you know, so yeah,
so the fact that Bowie was there that night. We
were probably also freaking out the Blenda Carlisle from the
go that the you know, the yet not really known
go gos were there, you know, or or whoever you know,
our pat bag might have been there and that would
(31:32):
have been a boolly big deal to us.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
There's another character that I wanted to ask you about,
Tracy Lee.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Tracy Lee.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
Yes, talk about.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
The the the mystery of Tracy Lee.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, she was a When we first started going to
shows in Hollywood, the scene was older than us. We
were like we were the kids, and Tracy was another
kid that we met. You know, she was the other
person who was exactly my age. Like we were like
fifteen when we started going to shows, and you know,
and so when we we had we were trying to
(32:08):
figure out what the new angle for Red Cross should
be like. When we were around the time Born Innocent,
before Born Innocent, we were putting the band back together
after Stevens hiatus when he returned, we just it was
like put the band back together, and oh I got
a great idea. Tracy Tracy Lee. She you know, she
(32:28):
played guitar with the group called Castration Squad, who were
an all girl death rock group for one of the
very first goth bands of all time, and we were
old friends with her, and I figured having her in
the band would be would like would be like out
of Brian Jones. She would she would be the fashion
center of our group, which she was on rhythm guitar,
(32:50):
un rhythm guitar. But yeah, she was like us, and
you know, we were all but she actually lived in Hollywood, Tracy.
You know, we lived. We were separate from Hollywood by
living in the suburbs, so we didn't get to go
there until years later. She walked to the Whiskey at
Go Go and saw the original Runaways play when she
was like thirteen, because she could, because she could because
(33:13):
she didn't live because she grew.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
Up in Hollywood. And it's it's funny, like this kind
of relates what I was talking about, being thrilled by
local celebrities more so than you know a lot of
other people a bigger artist or whatever. Like many years later,
I was on tour with my hardcore band Off and
(33:37):
a really close friend of mine, Josh Klinghoffer, had just
joined the rid At Chili Peppers, and they were playing
a stadium down the road. This was in England and
I and so Josh invited me to the show, and like,
I knew Flee and Anthony way back, but just a
little bit, like I wouldn't expect them to necessarily know
my name. And they were excited that I was coming
(34:02):
to the show because they wanted to talk about Tracy Marshak.
That's her real lat's name, and they had gone to
school with her at Fairfax High. They had grown up
in Hollywood too, and this is like in twenty ten
or something, and they're like, so, what you know Tracy
Marsha Can I.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Like, yeah, everyone everyone was in awe.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
They were in awe of her. She was the cool
punk rock girl at Fairfax High. And they were maybe
a year younger than her or the same age, but
they were intimidated by her because she had she just
always had this cool mistique about her. I mean, I'm
sure at Fairfax at the time, she probably was a
bit of a loner or not necessarily like a popular
(34:47):
social or whatever. But for weirdos like Flee and Anthony,
they would have been like, you know, oogling over her
and obsessive about her, and that she was unapproachable on
some level. They still talked about her on that level,
which is so funny because of you know who they
are now and what they've lived.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
So tell us what it's like now creating new music
and what has changed in your guys. You know, style
and you know, collaboration practices.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Well, a style something that just comes and goes. It's
just something that's a natural part of it. I think
it's kind of filtered through whatever it is like for
me by speaking for myself, whatever I'm listening to is
kind of effects whatever style. But the process is, since
we've been doing this for so long, there's no set way.
I mean it's like we both write separately, we both
(35:45):
finish songs separately, we both write parts separately, we both
get together and write together. So there's just, you know,
so many ways to do it. There's isn't a set way,
and I think that's probably why we can still come
up with good stuff, because we're not stuck in at
of how to create our right music.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
That's true. I guess we've never really landed on a
formula and so it's still it's always you know, I
don't know. I mean this last time we wrote it
did feel different, It felt a little different. Like we
were getting some unentreded territory and you know, I mean,
(36:25):
I know, it's cool. It's cool to check back in
and see like where we are as individuals and where
we are as a partnership. And this last time was
really fruitful and it seemed like maybe I would also
say the documentary, at least for me, the documentary had
a lot of it offered some inspiration as well.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
It's obvious watching you two in the documentary and now
how much you enjoy being together with each other. That's
not acting, is it.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, Now we are best friends, but we can also
really get each other, get on each other's nerves in
a deep level. But it's all that's all like normal,
you know. It's like we recover really quickly. When there's disagreements.
They may seem like you might have a disagreement even
though I could creative one that just seems like, oh,
(37:20):
you know, okam blah blah blah. But then you get
over very fast, you know. So I think that's maybe
that's you know, being brothers and the fact that there's
just the two of us and we grew up in
you know, very humble We grew up in the same bedroom,
you know, very.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
Close our parents. As much as they've done some terrible
modeling of how to deal with and stress and anxiety,
I think they've also been really good models in the
terms of their partners. They they've been doing their own
small business since the eighties since maybe we started Red Cross,
(38:00):
before they started Omni Welding.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Oh yeah, we did. They started into age like eighty
three or something. I don't know.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
Okay, so they started their own small business in their
early eighties. But they've been partners, so to speak, for
you know, since before Jeff was born, and they still
work together. They still work together. They're in their eighties
and our dad is like eighty six now maybe, And
(38:28):
they still have their small welding company, Precision Welding Omni Welding.
If you need precision welding done in the South Bay
region of LA look them up on the work.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
I'm kind of happy to reach hire suit that they
don't really want to know.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
They can know. They worked through COVID and they're in
great shape, and I think that's been a really positive
thing for them. And because they worked their COVID, because
they often would do government contracts, so much to our chagrin.
We were like, you know, I wanted to go do
their shopping for them, like, no, leave me alone, No,
we're working, but and whatever. But the point is that
(39:08):
they've I mean, I'd like to think that jeff and
I have evolved a little better. I mean, obviously we're brothers.
Is a different dynamic, but we're not quite as bickering
as they are. They are like world class bickers and
it's really dysfunctional.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
But they recovery quickly though, So that's the kind of
thing I think we may have learned the quick recovery, right, we.
Speaker 5 (39:30):
Can talk about recover quickly and yeah, maybe that's a
skill we've learned to push it to our toes.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Like, yeah, who knows, but everyone gets along for I'd
say eighty of the time these days they do.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
We do Jeffrey, what does Stephen do to make you better?
And Stephen, what does Jeffrey do to make you better?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Well, Steven's very thorough, very very analytical, and you know,
and I think sometimes I'm very flighty, and I just
go with my first response, you know, and a creative situation,
and sometimes it's good. It's sometimes it is good to
take a beat. So you know, Stephen has mate has
insisted that I take a beat before on certain things creatively,
(40:23):
and that's that's good. That's good. Otherwise I would just be,
you know, flying off the handle doing everything, you know,
on an impulsive level musically. But that's one thing I
can think of, because anyone who knows Steve but we
know he's he's the most analytical person. He's very very
intense that way, which is which, which is great, but
(40:44):
that's you know that that's also where we hit like
little you know, but butt head sometimes.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
Well, I mean, and I guess the flipside is that
I've become more at least with my rioting. I like
my first ideas better now than I used to. So
maybe that's Jeffson. What's I mean?
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Well, guys, is there anything I've missed that you want
to say or talk about?
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Oh, we don't want? Well, the movie, the album it did,
the movie and the Red Cross self tit titled double album,
and and our book Now You're one of us, They're
all just they all fit together. So if if anyone
sees reads the books, sees the movie, buys the record
or whatever, and they need more, there is more.
Speaker 5 (41:28):
Yeah, I mean the only thing. I say, you can
go to Red Cross Film and that's RI D D
K R O S S film dot com to find
out if there's a screening anywhere in your area, because
if film is screening now, it's you know, sort of
a short, limited theatrical run, and then it will eventually
(41:51):
go into you know, another formats like DVD's, and then
I think they're gonna figure out some kind of hosting
situation to stream it, which I don't know that much about,
but there is distribution for that. But I would say
that if you know nothing about us and you're just
kind of intrigued sharing our conversation, that the documentary is
(42:12):
actually from what I can tell, it seems to be
engaging to people that know nothing about our music.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
It's really fun to watch with a with a with
an audience because it's funny, but it gets heavy, you know,
and it's musical, and it's.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
So it's like, yeah, you might not even be a
big music fan, but if you're a human being, you
might like the human elements of our story. And so
I just because it's a good entrance point into our world.
And then I would say if you watched the movie
and then you're intrigued to know more than I would
direct you towards our newest album, because we've been together
(42:49):
for so long that our catalog is pretty disparate, so
to speak. It's it's random like there, you know, there's
records from when we were thirteen, and there's records when
we were twenty three and thirty three and then, so
that we changed a lot in those times. But the
new album is a double album, so it's got a
it's got a long track listing, and it is a
(43:12):
good cross section of everything that we're capable of. And
and we just happened to land and as time would
have it, our fate or luck or whatever, we intersected
at an inspired moment with the opportunity to make a record.
So I think it's a really it's a great companion
for the uh, the movie and just learning about who
(43:34):
we are. I think it's a good entrance. It's a
good entrance. And then and then when that's done, if
you're not like completely nauseated by having too much Red
Cross in your world, then check out the book because
the book is a deep dive into much more tweaky
ear things than we got into today. But that's the
(43:54):
order of events. I suggest that's the analytical Steve that
jeff just called me out on.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
The documentary Born Innocent is fabulous. It is a saunter
through music history without a question.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
And Jeffrey and Stephen McDonald, I'm so glad that we
took this little walk down memory lane.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Thank you for being on.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Thanks for having us. It's fun.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Lynn Hoffman
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