12 - Our Bodies, Our Twelves

Karen and Georgia get deep when they discuss the murder that started their obsession with true crime: a kid on fire and a mom that assassinated her children. Happy listening!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yay, name that tune. Do you know that song? What's that?
That's the beginning of a song.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's an eighties it is I'll do it for okay,
I'm doing marching rhythm.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
See the arms, yeah, ye, now what is it? Thorn
in my side? By the ear next nifels stoopid? Oh no,
it's great.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
If everyone could see their marching, they would understand how grand.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Someone at home's yelling.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
There was someone that got it on the first note
to the reason I was doing that everybody is because
Georgia has gotten these beautiful mic covers.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
So now we can pop our.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Peas, we can pop any peas we please, hop our
peas and sing our song.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Welcome to My Favorite Murder, the most Professional Murder podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Slash Sports announcing podcast, Slash Distant video game music and singing.
It's gonna be This is gonna it's gonna take the
Internet by storm, this new combination of entertainment.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Do you think they can hear the like the shooting
helicopter video game noise coming from the apartment downstairs.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I don't know there is a video game being played
with that kind of really high pressure music, and definitely some.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Version of murder happening in that it's a wall shaking
like war video game.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
One would think I would be rich enough to buy
a house, you will be, And yet very soon there
goes a motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
There goes a fucking motorcycle. Is the motorcycle in the
video game or is that separate? That was separate? Okay,
I mean I've learned to ignore it.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
And then I realized that we're recording something, and it's like, oh,
that's embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I think people like ambient sound. It makes it real.
They know we're real, We're street, We're real as fuck.
We're as fucking real as they get. This apartment complex
the realist where super real.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Let's talk about the woman who has found in a
dumps and a recycling bin. I mean, I get recycling
bin is better than a trash can, also idiotic.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I should have put her in a trash bin. I
don't know if I can. I don't know, uh if
it is it better? Yeah, I mean it's like it's
more organic. I just feel bad this woman from Seattle,
she has three kids. She's just given dating another shot,
just trying to find someone who will love her and

(02:46):
like her kids. Are you trying to make me cry
because I will stay. That was my mom.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
And she goes out with this guy to a fucking
whatever the sports team is in Seattle game and Seahawks
and then goes missing Mariners.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
There we go and then gets fucking found. That's the worst.
It's awful, heartbreaking. Do you know if it was match
dot com, don't Tinder, I don't know what.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
I don't know what dating side it was, but I
know they've gone out a couple times, so he wasn't
like it wasn't like a warning like don't go out
with strangers.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
It was like she knew this person. So it was
Christian mingle.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Shaded and like they showed a photo of the guy
and I would never have guessed he was a psychopath.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
What is it about the Pacific Northwest?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I mean, seriously, this is like I always think of
Twin Peaks, where it's like the haunted forests, bad spirits
emanating from an ancient site and then going into downtown
Seattle and just fucking up lives.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
There's so much land in which to bury and hide people.
There's depression because the weather is so fucking dark, right, Like, yes,
everyone there has seasonal defective active disorder, all.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Year round sort of thing across. It's depression. It's called depression.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Everyone's got it and it makes them serial kill No,
it's heavy.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's a I have to say.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
The couple of times I've been to Seattle, I've had
a lovely time, and it's been in the summer.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's so beautiful. I can't stand it. But it's always
the it's like la.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
People go there in the summer and then they're like,
what are they saying about Seattle?

Speaker 1 (04:23):
And everyone's wrong? And then you leave.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
I have a message for everyone in other parts of
the country, Okay, move to Los Angeles. It's sunny, literally,
it's it's what you make fun of. It's constantly sunny.
There's no seasons, which they're like, I love seasons, but
you love it until mid February.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, and uh, it's kind of dirty, yeah, but in
a way that makes you feel like you're gonna be okay.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
And would you rather get dismembered or just like get
a random bullet on the freeway in your head?

Speaker 1 (04:56):
I mean, pick one, Karen, pick one right now? Yeah? Yeah,
a bullet, random bullet.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, although once you're dead, the dismemberment doesn't.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Affect you, got it affects your family. Oh, that's very true.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Also, stuffing someone into a garbage can of any kind
is such an aggressive act of there's so much hatred
in that act.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
And it's file it's.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Amateur hour two because yeah, what do you of course
they're going to find.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
They're going to find that, which maybe he wanted that
to happen, so he got caught. I think they immediately
like just went on her computer.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
I think.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
So what I think happened is it wasn't it wasn't premeditated.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Oh you know what I mean, because he snapped.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Because if he if someone has that much information about
you on their computer and like match that you were
going out with that person that night and you went
missing from there, Yeah, something went wrong. Clearly it's going
to come straight back to you. Clearly you have an
anger issue and you snapped. Oh here's the thing, Fuck everyone.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Right, that's we should have said that right at the beginning.
This podcast should be called Here's things. Fuck everyone, here's
the thing everyone. Fuck everyone except for you guys, except
thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Except for our twenty eight hundred plus members on our.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Jesus Facebook group. It's grown like a wildfire, and no
one is a pervert. It's the best. So just the
one that's the one guy's like a pervert, right, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
They keep their PERVC perversy private, their private parts pervert
like us.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Everyone. The Facebook group is.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Like my my, my bloodline. I love it so much.
People keep like taking quotes from us and putting them
in ultiful settings.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Georgia keeps texting me the quotes that that play into
my ego where somebody puts somebody put a quote of
mine from this podcast over a sundial which made it
look so regal.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, and like it was like Wisdom from the Ages.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, Like the font is beautiful. Yeah, it's terrible. It's
like papyrus, so it looks real.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
People are just really hitting it out of the park
in terms of their participation.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
It makes us so excited. Yeah, please go join the
Facebook group. Yeah, it's good times.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
I mean it doesn't do any it does nothing for us.
Would make it happy, Like we're not gaining anything out
of it.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
No, I don't think so, not yet anyway. I mean
we'll figure out a way to monetize.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
And hunt all of you down and make us buy
a thank you, buy a T shirt. But right now
we're just having fun.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
We actually are talking about getting T shirts made. So
this is this is going to be a real dividing
line that the hardcore people you will buy and wear
a T shirt that says my favorite murder on the
front of it, and then that's going to weed out
the week of the people who say, I don't know
if I can commit to public love of murder.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
And then the fucking hardcore people are going to come
to the live shows.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
We actually have, yes, because we're definitely talking about doing
live shows here in Los Angeles. Yeah, so we would
love to see you if that's something you'd be interested
in participating in.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
It would love for you to come. Let us on
the Facebook group if you'd come. Yeah, we'll make it
worth your while.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I'm really excited about this, this top this episode.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, because I see you have usually you have this
these like this crazy serial killer notebook full of writing
of my seven writing, and I.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Think we both and I usually have a few pages
printed up, but we both have like only a little
dialogue because our a little writing, because the dialogue around
it is going to be.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Intense, Yes, because this week, Uh, we decided to go
The topic is the one that started it all, and
that is somebody actually guessed this on the twitter page.
I'm sorry, I can't remember. They don't want their names
known anyways, that's.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
True, but he said it was a guy and he said,
want it you got you guys should do that. I
think maybe hearing us because we mentioned something about that
last week.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
I don't even know if we did, because you texted
it to me randomly and that day he was like,
you guys should do the one that made you interested
in murder.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
It wasn't like we talked about it on the last episode.
But maybe I could definitely be wrong.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
But memory is shit. I minus too. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
But it doesn't matter because that was super esp on
his part because that we That's what I texted to Georgia,
and that is what we were talking about this week,
the serial killer or the murder that kicked off our
fascination with murder.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, do you want me to go first? Do you
want to go first? Do you want to go first?
Whatever you want?

Speaker 3 (09:21):
I think you went first last time. Okay, but I
might cry. Really, Yeah, this one fucked me up. Okay,
for life. Okay, I want me to go first. Yeah, okay,
this is Georgia, but can anyone tell our voices apart?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
I don't know, And it's a list of the intense list.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Uh and the one who says we're like eight minutes
and you're like, this is Georgia if you don't know.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Someone was like, someone drew caricatures of us on the
Facebook group and they're like, I don't know what Karen
and Georgia look like, but in my mind, this is
what they look like. And we just look like it
was hilariously ridiculous. And someone was like, just look at
their in like, look at someone like google them. They're
both like public figure. I was like so charmed that

(10:02):
someone just found it and doesn't even care what we
look like.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Did I have curly hair? Just by chance?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
We pub looked a little bit like Kathy from the
Catholic part, God bless. I was like a man, I like,
I feel in my mind I look like a little
more like Pat Banazar.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
But really the reality is that fucking Kathy. Reality is
always Kathy. It really is ac act, all right.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
So so the one that started off for me is
actually an attempted murder. Okay, but I feel like it's
the same thing because it was attempted. It was like
supposed to be murder, and it happened in nineteen eighty three,
and I hold on, okay.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Say the name right now, you say it? This is
one two three? Oh? Thank god? Who is that? Is
that yours? Yeah? That's mine? Oh shit, Oh my god,
and mine happening in nineteen eighty three? Your face, I
swear to god. Is it attempted to real? Well? There
was one. Oh, it's a mix. That's why I was

(11:03):
like just staring at you, like, holy shit, one of
these days, one of these days, we're gonna get the
same one.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Okay, sorry, but I think we should like set like
a rule that if we forget the same one, like
something crazy has to happen.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Is we should have a third murder in an envelope
that we just have someone else randomly print up and
then we just have to read.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Wouldn't that be funny if we had like a random
murder that we don't even know. Oh my god, that's fair.
That was that's very weird. That was crazy. Okay.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
So in nineteen eighty eighty three in Orange County, which
is where I'm from. So I was only like, I
was almost four at the time. So my parents needed
to stop watching the news because I fucking saw this
entire thing.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
And remember it from when I was three.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
In nineteen eighty three, a six year old, you know,
so it's around my age, named David Rothenberg was brought
to a motel near not Sperry Farm. I was just
in Buena Park, California, by his father, Charles Rothenberg, who
was him. His parents are divorced. He was taking him
on authorized visit and that night David or Charles the

(12:10):
father got in a fight with the mom on the
phone and said to her if I can't have him,
nobody else can. And then, and this has stuck with
me since I was four, he gave the dad gave
David a sleeping pill.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Are you ready for this? Poured kerosene on his bed.
Oh I remember this story, Yeah, kissed.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Him goodbye and struck a match. As he stood in
the door, he watched from its telephone booth across the
street as the fucking flank he said he was he
was going to kill himself too, but he was too
much of a coward. You fucking light your fucking child
on fire. But you're too much of a coward to
kill yourself.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
No, you're not a coward, you're associopath, psychopath, piece of shit.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
So thanks a bunch of people in the motel dragged
him from the inferno. He said, I mean the pain
that this kid went through. He suffered third degree burns
over ninety percent of his body. It's not supposed to live.
If you see photos of him day, I don't want to.
I really don't want to say his new name, because
he changed his name because you didn't want his dad's
last name.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
It feels a little like salacious.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yes, but you can find him, and I remember seeing
him in updates in the newspaper throughout the years, especially
because so the dad was convicted of attempted murder, arson
and other charges.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Karen, guess how many years he got? Oh god, is
it going to be something like six more than that,
But it's till thirteen h.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
So I remember in nineteen ninety, I remember, I wrote,
like distinctly, remember the newspaper article was that was a
photo of the kid with like who's you know a
little older now looking behind his back, and it's like,
if this guy gets set free, He'll always look behind
his back and see if he's there. And actually the
dad said, in nineteen ninety when he was supposed to

(14:08):
be let out of jail, do I deserve to be
set free? And he said no, it's an unforgivable act,
like he even knew that he should not have fucking
been set free. And I remember, like, so my parents
divorced when I was five, and so my dad got
custody of us like every other weekend, and I feel
like it fucked up my relationship with my dad. Yeah,

(14:30):
because this, you know, this guy could have been a
drug addicted, fucking crazy person already, but I wish my
dad isn't and wasn't. But in my mind it was
like just someone's dad, someone's daddy, yes, and he was
still able to do this to him. So it really
fucked me out for the rest of my life.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
And actually, weirdly, David the Kid, the person who became
a father figure to him, which is is Michael Jackson,
heard of the horrific circumstances surrounding David's accident and reached
out to him, and they become life. They became life
on friends, which is like another so sad.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
It's very well, it's sad, but it doesn't necessarily.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
But I mean, nothing happened. I don't think anything happened.
I don't that's so either.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
I don't think I think Michael Jackson was inappropriately comfortable,
but I don't think he was.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
I think he had an incorrect sense of what you
were supposed to do. Like, I think he had an
incorrect sense of himself, yes, and of And I think
he wanted to be around children because he still wanted
to be a child.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
And I think he was protecting this kid who suddenly
just like that got a lesson of what it's like
in the real world. Yeah, which is horrific and terrible.
And the person that you trust, you know, sets you
on fucking fire.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean it's I feel like I know that story
because it's probably because of the Michael Jackson part, or
probably because it was like one of those stories.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
But like, didn't he go on to like speak at schools.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, he's like a well, yeah, he's a pretty he's
a pretty big advocate. He does a lot of advocacy. Yeah,
you know, he's turned it into good. He speaks out
against child abuse and all these things and he's finally.
You know, when your body is burned over ninety percent,
you have chronic pain constantly, and he found someone who

(16:33):
was able to relieve that, and he's like an advocate
for that.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
And it's just so. But his dad served less than
seven years of that sentence. Oh my god. Yeah, he
settled in Oakland in nineteen ninety.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
But then he was arrested that January and charged with
the attempted murder of a man and being a felon
in possession of a gun. So I don't know where
he is now, but I bet it's not in jail. Well,
oh god, Yeah, it fucked me up, the divorce thing
and this and the like my dad had us every

(17:07):
other every summer for a couple of weeks and would
take his places and it was very stressful for him.
I feel like it clouded my childhood a little bit,
like this was a thing that divorced parents. This is
how they reacted sometimes. Yeah, that was even just a possibility, Yes,
especially because it was, you know, twenty minutes from my home.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Well, it's uncomfortable enough and hard enough for little kids.
They don't understand why it's happening every day. It's like
the whole world changes, So why wouldn't that change too,
Like how can you feel safe?

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah, my mom is angry at my dad and this
is stressful for my dad, and so people react crazy
and it's unexpectable or unexpected, and you know, adults, adults
make it complicated and kids have an you know, have
an easy solution to everything.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Also, just that idea that a father, the idea that
I mean, we always talk about that, but it's just like,
the second a father makes a decision to light his
child on fire, I think that that man should die.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Well, the thing is like, oh what I don't understand,
And I mean I get it, but why did he
get tried for attempted murder? His plan was to murder
he it just didn't happen. Why did he only get
attempted murder because the kid didn't die?

Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
I know, your plan was actively to murder someone and
it just didn't go that way.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
For whatever fucking circumstances, you should still get murdered. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, it's the difference between life in prison and fucking
seven years.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Well, and also there should be special circumstances, which is
something that they do a lot more nowadays nowadays, Yeah,
which is that thing of like, yeah, you like, there's
nothing about this that isn't the most evil thing on
the planet.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
You should not get out of jail.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
I feel like a lot of people would be horrified
to hear that this person who did this got seven years.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's not right. It's crazy, you know.
And then there's the oh, what was I gonna say?
I don't remember anyways, it's just awful. I'm sorry. No,
it's a terrible start in the world of murder for you.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
That was a start, and then and then unsolved mysteries
was a thing.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
That's somehow my parents let me watch What the fuck?
Were you a latch key child as well? Oh I
was latchkey kid? Yeah yeah, yeah, me too. You just
do whatever you want when you're a latch key kid.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Nothing and we I mean, I talk about this all
the time, but like kids today and even young people
today don't understand how it was the wild West for
kids in the seventies and eighties. It was just like
nothing was nothing was thought of through a child's eyes.
Nobody was like, hey, maybe we should throw up a
warning before this show to be like, don't watch this

(20:01):
if you're all by yourself.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
I learned how glamorous being balimic was from Lifetime movies.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yes, you know that's right then, Jennifer Jason Lee. Yeah,
BlimE me a movie taught everyone how to do blivia.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
I learned that relationships had to be insane and rocky
from nine to two and zero, like they had to
be dramatic and fucked up and crazy. And then when
I was like twenty two, I was like, oh, wait
a minute, they can just be happy and it's fine,
Like I don't have to have like it might even
be better, like guitar riff.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
In the background, only get like when I'm mad at him,
or like how Tori Spelling's boyfriend didn't beat her up
he push her on fucking fly the stairs. Yeah, it
doesn't have to be that way.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
It turns out you can just watch TV and get
high and really, I really like each other a lot
and laugh and it's cool and really laugh your asses off. Yeah,
and make each other cheese toast the best part of
relationship to me is when someone they should cheese posts.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
I like it when people pick you up from places ooh,
like when you get to go do your thing, but
then somebody comes and picks you up.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Do you know what happened the other night?

Speaker 3 (21:04):
I was supposed to go to like a girls' night
party at this bar, and I was like, guys can
come later, but like Vince's night' spent the whole day
together and like on the weekend, I have a hard
time like that's what we do. Yeah, I'm a little codependent. Anyways,
So he drops me off at this bar's dive bar
where we're supposed to meet at five, and I'm two

(21:24):
minutes early because I'm Georgia and I'm fucking earlier to everything.
And I walk in and the light of the music
is incredibly loud and no one is there yet, and
I call him. He had driven away, and I was like,
come get me.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Fuck this.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
He drove back around and got me, and I took
a nap and then we went back to the party together.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
When you guys were loud nice, I just couldn't. No, No,
you don't and you don't have to. You get to
do exactly what you want. Any weird preconceived idea of
how things are supposed to be quote unquote right, isn't
the truth? And you get to do what makes you
comfortable and what makes you have be and exactly the
do things the way you want to do them.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
If any teenager for listening right now, which what are
you doing? Please don't do that? You I promise you,
Like your life gets awesome. Yes, because you get to
choose whatever you want to do.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, although I think kids these days get to so
much more.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
That's like a revelation for us.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Probably most kids these days listening this would be like, uh,
how else would it be?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, because you have connection to every human being in
the world.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, the pre internet days were dark, my friends, No,
they were real. They were super real, just like us.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Like you wouldn't be we wouldn't be as awesome. You
wouldn't be wearing all black right now? Were the familiar?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Wi jeez, this is my weekend goth look casual goth. Well,
unfortunately we didn't have the same one. I feel like
that would be I kind of feel like it would
be majestic.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
I feel like if we if we ever have the
same one, we have to like treat ourselves to like
an incredible dinner, Like it's like celebration.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
That's right of our minds. Melding. We'll go to if
we ever have the same one. We'll go to Musso
and Franks and get fucking steaks. Oh good idea, let's
just do it anyway, sand dabs, I don't even know
it's it's like old fashioned food. Let's do it anyways.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
We'll get Roquefort dressing, sides and sides of roque.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
First dress. You know what I want scalloped potatoes.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes, you know what I want. I want a dry martini.
I want five dry martinis.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Girl, can olives or onions? Olives? Yeah? Can I just
have that one night where it gets to start drinking again?

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Listen, let's let's have a how about episode fifteen? This
is upisode eleven right twelve twelve. Episode fifteen will celebrate
by going to mussoan Franks.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
I love it, the classic old school steakhouse here in Hollywood.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
I'm gonna wear a snood. I don't know what that is,
Yes you do. It's the back hair net. Oh that
holds all your hair in one little pile. From the
thirties forties.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
I want to say I've but to wear one of
my Vines dresses, but they are so tight that I
can't eat any and I have multiple times ripped open
the scene to the back of my dress.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Why don't you wear your vintage sweatshirt. I'm gonna wear
a vintage sweatshirt.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
I'm gonna wear my vintage cap, jeans, my vintage pants. Karen, Georgia, Karen,
here's my favorite murder from the from the jump. I
thought it was John Wayne Gacy because I always talk
about seeing that picture at a very young age. I
saw a graph of how he buried the boy's bodies

(24:31):
in his house right, and it blew my mind apart.
But I realized before I saw that picture, because then
I was like, wait, maybe it was Ted Bundy. But
I realized the reason I read The Stranger Beside Me,
which was the Ann Rule book about her and Ted Bundy.
I had read Small Sacrifices, which is an Anne Rule

(24:51):
book about this woman, Diane Down Down, and I will
now tell you.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
The story of Diana.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
And this was a This is a paperback book that
I found on my mom's nightstand because my mom used
to just plow through any book. She would read almost
a book a day, any almost anything she liked kind
of pulpy stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
And this one.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
She I just started reading and she didn't she didn't
notice that I was reading a book that I was
probably twelve or so.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Yeah, but again in the eighties and nineties, like they
weren't as were they didn't understand what makes a crazy
anxiety written person?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right?

Speaker 1 (25:26):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yes, exactly, that this would in any way have like
long term effects on my brain.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
My parents were in World War two, like they didn't understand. Yeah,
this wasn't it was a book.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
It couldn't hurt you, It wasn't a bomb, it wasn't
an unexploited shell. Actually I must have been fourteen because
this happened in nineteen eighty three and she went to
went to court in nineteen eighty four. So then the
book was written. So but here's how it starts. Read
for my paper expertly typed paper. So on May nineteenth,

(25:59):
the nineteen eighty three, in Springfield, Oregon, twenty seven year
old divorcee and male woman, Diane downs again Pacific Northwest,
Pacific Northwest, she went sightseeing with her three young sleeping
children at ten o'clock at a night on a school night.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
I know you know this one. She was listening to
hungry like the wolf.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
When she turned down the road she'd never been on before,
she said that she saw oh because they were exploring,
that they liked exploring, and there she saw a shaggy
haired man who flagged down her car, So, she said
she pulled over and turned off the ignition and asked
him what he wanted. He said he was going to
take the car, and he pulled her. He opened the door,

(26:41):
pulled her out of the car, reached in and shot
all three of her children at close range. She says
that she then faked throwing the car keys into the
field across the road, and when he turned to look
where the keys went, she jumped back into the car.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
He shot her in the left.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Arm, and then she sped away to the nearest hospital.
And at the hospital, her seven year old daughter Cheryl
was pronounced dead, her three year old son Danny was
found to be paralyzed from the waist down, and her
eight year old daughter Christy had lost so much blood
that she had had a stroke.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
Oh my fuck, kang God, real quick, I just want
to get that out of the way.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, okay. So almost immediately the cops smell a rat.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Sure because of the story. I just told you. That's
her official statement.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Jesus. They were sightseeing at ten o'clock at night.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
She said, as you do as you do with your
three children, one of whom is toddler, who doesn't even
know what sight seeing is. So they're like, huh, interesting,
and they then notice that she, in telling this story
is completely emotionless. The cop who I watched on an

(27:54):
old twenty twenty said, not one tear did I see as.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
She was telling story. So she's explaining how her children
are shot point blank ranged by it, but.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
She could be in shock because they say, now, like,
don't judge someone's reaction because you just never know how
they're gonna absolutely howmever.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
The night of true, but that it is going to
raise the alarm bells in a cop where if you're
either not crying or fake crime. Right then, when they
brought her in to see Christy, when she had woken
up from her like she was, you know, conscious again
when they got her going, there were there's a detective

(28:35):
and then two doctors in the room with her. When
they brought Diane in her they said her eyes glazed
over with fear and her heart rates that was on
the heart monitor went from one hundred and four to
one hundred and sixty four.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Holy shit. So everybody was like, uh oh, because like
this is she's this is a little girl surrounded by
strangers and her mother, the one person who is supposed
to give her comfort or in the world comes in.
She's terrified.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
So that's alarm bell number three. Then then they find
out that almost immediately after arriving at the hospital and
her children being wheeled in to the er, Diane made
a call to a guy named Robert Nickerbocker, who was
a married man and a former colleague of hers that

(29:23):
she'd had in fair with in Arizona. Made a phone
call there, and they also noticed that, even though none
of the children had been given any first date of
any kind, Diane had a dish towel wrapped neatly around
her gunshot.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Good to know.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
So these are things everybody's dinging off one by one
and going, ah, this is all of this seems weird?

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Is that shitty for me to say that?

Speaker 3 (29:46):
In I'm surprised that in nineteen eighty three these things
dinged because I feel like a lot of shike up
passed people.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Oh I think, yes, I think because it was still
the early days of this kind of crime being like
because there was no you know, forensic files and you
didn't see this all the time, and hear that same
story of like but then the cops, so it was.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Like smart cops and smart doctors.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yes, yeah, And I think it's when three little kids
get killed or you know, one gets murdered and two
are horribly injured, everybody's on high alert and paying as
close attentions. There's less of lackadaisical feel as opposed to
our usual oh they ran away, yeah bullshit, But yes,

(30:35):
definitely these cops on this case were on it. And
this one cop that talked the most in this twenty
twenty special, which you can see if you go on
YouTube or whatever, it was his first homicide case. So
I think that's probably know was like poised. Yeah, he
wasn't jaded. He wasn't like, oh, this old thing, you know.
He was like there, he wasn't to figure it out.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Thinking about all the paperwork that needed to be done.
He was like, yeah, that's pay attention. He's like, what
the hell happened?

Speaker 2 (31:01):
And they say that the the phrasing hair is shaggy
haired man, but that's not the that's not exactly the
wording she used. That's actually a police term for that
fake person that people who kill people and then blame
it on a random person who came in. They call
that the shaggy haired man.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
So she but she actually said and she described it,
and you can see, like the police sketch, it's it
is a shaggy haired man.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
It's like some man who some like a drifter, kind
of a drifter or that no mother in the world
would ever pull her car over for on an empty
country road, much less turn the car off. That's the
craziest part to me. Why did she add that in
because it wasn't necessary.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
No, because she's a bad liar and she's one of
these psychopaths who thinks that she's the master.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
And that's really the funniest to me, because they're the
most obvious liars.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, Well, because they don't know how dumb they really are.
I love watching.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Interrogations when you know someone is good, like when you're not,
you're like not guessing, you actually know they're guilty.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, And the lying they do and how loud lying sounds.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
Yeah, it's just so blatantly obvious, and I love when
the cops play along.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yes, and they like sympathize so with her, this is
what I love. They this, these cops decided to let
her talk. She started talking to the press almost immediately,
and because of course, they were like, we've got to
find the shaggy haired man. So she was giving these
interviews and the more she did it, the more she
loved it, and they called her she looked a little

(32:39):
bit like Lady Diana, so they would call her Lady
Die and she kept on giving interviews. Well, four days
after her daughter Cheryl is pronounced dead, she's doing a
reenactment for the news and you can watch this all this,
all this stuff is on YouTube. She is laughing and
joking along with this reporter reenacting murder of her children.

(33:01):
But literally like, oh my god, I just hit my cast,
like like she looks like a flirty high school girl.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Can you explain my face right now? Georgia's all of
her orifices are open as white as.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Oh my gas. Jesus charried, this is an X rated podcast?

Speaker 1 (33:16):
How dare you? But no, no, it's crazy. It's so unnerving.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
And then you and also you see these the interviews
that she talks more and more as each one goes by,
so the one that they end up having to hold,
because the reporter knew if they released it before her
trial that there's no way she would get a fair
trial in Oregon. In this one, she's quoted as saying,
and this it kind of made me sick, Like I

(33:42):
had to turn it off and turn it back on
a couple of times, because this woman is overtly crazy.
She has the hallmark of crazy, in my opinion, which
is anyone who's plucked their eyebrows down to just like
two little lines.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
He always to.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Me, that's like either you're on speed, you're on some
kind of white rug, or you're just totally crazy. I
love it because she's it looks like two upside down
yous over each of her eyes.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
And it's like it's like one eyebrow connected to the
next eyebrow connection like one hair.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yes, exactly, like she just left on the bare minimum
of brow. That's always a very bad sign. So she's
getting interviewed and the reporter asks her, do you feel
lucky that you only got shot in the arm in
this terrible crime? And she says, my children are my
children are the ones who are lucky. I'm the one

(34:33):
that has to live with this pain and scarring for
the rest of my life. What a fucking cunt. And
in the same interview they catch her. You see her
as she talks. She can't help she smiles at the
end early sentence, she giggles a little bit.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
What an idiot.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
And at the during one point, it's almost like it's
almost like her brain doesn't know what the correct face
is supposed to be for this situation because she's.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
In a not like what was that? Yeah, she's narcissist. Yes, Oh,
that's the thing I was watching. I write a thing
recently about sociopaths. And you can tell them because when
you yawn, you know, normally when I yon, you'll yawn
to yes, when iye yon, they don't yawn because they
have no empathy, because they don't catch the yawn because.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
They don't they they don't feel. Yeah, they don't have anything.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
She's like, didn't She doesn't understand that facial expressions read.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yes, and she doesn't know to mask. She is enjoying
being the center of attention, and she doesn't know to
mask that joy. While she's talking about the blood coming
out of her daughter's mouth. It's like one of the creepiest.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
I want to call it Munchausen by proxy, but it's
not because she I mean, like, shooting someone is so aggressive, and.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, no, Munchausen's is more. You're getting the sympathy from people.
This is a person who thought she was going to
get away with a triple murder of chill.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
What happened, So I'm scared.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
So as so, basically she keeps doing these interviews, and
now everyone around is seeing that this woman is not
the victim of a random crime on a country road
like she initially said. Everyone in nearby is like, oh
my god, there's something wrong with her. And so then
as all that's happening and she's doing it like she

(36:26):
was volunteering for these interviews. The police are still investigating.
They find her secret diary and that's where they find
all the information about that guy, Robert Nickerbocker, and her
obsession with him, and how she basically wanted to kill
his wife while when she still lived in Arizona, and
that this guy had no interest in children, thought it
was inappropriate to be around her when she was with

(36:47):
her children, and so clearly the motive was on the page.
She killed her children so she could be with.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Him, right, listen, don't have a secret diary unless you're
going to kill someone, like it's the only people have
secret diaries.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Were going to fucking kill someone. Yes, that's just evidence
waiting waiting to be found. Just think about it. So
her thoughts, don't write them down.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
So then then a guy comes forward that says, because
her story was she raced to the er. After this happened,
a guy comes forward and says, I drove behind She
had a red Nissan. I drove behind a red Nissan
that was going so slowly that my spinometer needle wasn't
coming off the peg. He said, she was probably going

(37:27):
seven miles an hour and he had to pass her.
Came up behind her going so slow, had to pass her.
And her story was she was racing there. She actually
drove so slowly to ensure her children would bleed out
because she could hear the moaning I'm gonna throw up.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
It's fuck.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
So she was arrested February twenty eighth, nineteen eighty four,
like nine months later. And then during her trial, her
daughter Christie, the one who got scared when she came
in the room had recovered enough, and Christie testified against
her own mother and told everybody there was no man
in the street. My mom shot all of us through crying,

(38:04):
you know, tears and everything. Testified against her own fucking mother.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
But here's the sweet parta well, there is a couple.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
First of all, she was convicted. She got sentenced to
life in prison plus fifty years, so she's.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Never getting out good.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
But she did get pregnant before the trial, so she
was pregnant during the trial a guy that she seduced
on her male route, so she knew she was going
to get arrested, so she she slept with this guy
and got pregnant, and then so that she could garner
sympathy and look like I would never do this. Look,

(38:40):
I'm such a loving mother.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
I think you also get put in a better prison
if you're pregnant.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, you get treated way better. Right.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
So, uh so here's the this is the quote that
she had about being pregnant. I got pregnant because I
miss Christie, and I miss Danny and I miss Cheryl
so much. You can't replace children, but you can replace
the effect that they give you.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
And they give me love.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
They give me satisfaction, they give me stability, They give
me a reason to live and a reason to be happy.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
You fucking cut, you fucking shot your children. Huh. And
now she's gonna make more so that child was immediately
taken away from her and put up for adoption, and
that girl never knew who her mother was until like recently, Wait,
that's me. What if it's me?

Speaker 2 (39:25):
And then here's the beautiful part. The prosecuting attorney that
sent her away adopted both Christy and Danny. His name
is Danny, right, Yes, adopted them, both him and his wife.
They're legally now their parents.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
And I don't cry, have no feelings in my heart,
and I love that to fucking cry because it's not beautiful.
So happy, Yeah, because they need so much, Yes, I
need so much.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
And that prosecutor from uh he he was the first
one who was like, you need to get a therapist
with Christy and have the up therapist with her all
the time because at some point she's going to need
to start talking about this and someone needs.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
To be there and be ready, dude.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
And so she just had like constant support and she like,
they did it, They did right by these kids one
time in one of these horrible stories.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
These kids, I mean got done right by even if
they hadn't been shot. They they got a better life
than they would have had. Oh yeah, yeah, apparently she
was a horrible they a psychiatrist said she was a narcissist,
a sociopath, and a hysteric.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Wow, so she must have been a nightmare mother. Like
the kids said, she hit them all the time.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
She's someone who in the eighteen hundreds would have been
like a good mother, you know what, even like in
Brooklyn in the fucking eighteen hundreds would have been like, well,
she keeps her kids in line, you know, and like
would have never yeah, would have never gone to try
that's her. She would have had like a funny nay,
like a you know, bully betty.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, the exactly would have never. Oh, missus slappy. So
that's the first one that affected you. That was the
first that I read that story.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I can still remember the feeling of reading it and
being and the whole description of her turning around in
the car and shooting the children and just being like
it was basically I had an equal opposite thing of
like I realized this was a possibility, but I didn't
ever have to consider although my mom did own the book.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
So clearly she was interested in this situation. She's like
learning about it.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
She might have been doing research, but it was just
that thing of like that adults just not to trust adults.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
These are very hard lessons we both learned, and I
wonder if they they taught us what we what we
started a podcast about, which is anything can fucking happen anytime,
and you need to be on guard for it at
all times.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
And don't try and don't don't take things for granted
or like judge books by covers, and don't do the
things that that average people get tricked by. Because this woman,
it was like she looked like lady Die and she
was like, I would never hurt my children, and everyone's
like okay. And if she herself had stopped doing interviews

(42:19):
at that point, it may I mean, who knows. They
would have had to prove everything else by evidence.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I think it's funny that like my story is a
dad story, in yours is a mom's story, and what
it is is that anyone is capable of anything, anyone
could be blind to you at all times.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Also, it's we picked the worst dad and the worst mom.
It was kind of of all time.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yeah, but these are the things we remember as children.
This is what you and I remember as children. Yeah. Yeah,
she did kindred fucking spirits.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
You know what's funny is so I wrote before we
where I wrote, like on the Facebook page, like you know,
I always write like we're about to record, here's the
topic comment with your story, yeah, which I think is
like so smart.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yes, it is really smarter of you, Georgia. I yeah,
thus murder is.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
But some people wrote things and I was like quickly
looking over them, and one of them.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Is yours is Diane Downs. Diane Downs is fucking in there? Jay?
Should I read a couple yes? Please? People's yes?

Speaker 2 (43:30):
And thank you for the people who are now running
the Facebook page.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Aren't there? Didn't you say there's two people who are
what do you call it? Yeah, we have a couple moderators. Moderators,
that's the word. Can you hear me? Or is that? Like?

Speaker 3 (43:46):
I didn't hear it because I think whip your head back,
you think within your head and then you realize it's
just it's going straight into my phone.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Which sometimes you just don't even know. And like that's life.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
We're I'm gonna read you a couple Okay, just made
me want to die, but we're just I'm gonna keep going.
So someone wrote, just want chicken soup right now, I'm
like a fucking do you think it was your burb? No? No,
I'm like a bloodhound working fucking smellshit. Really Okay, someone
says Zodiac. My mother had a book about him, and

(44:18):
I snuck up. I snuck it at age ten to
read it. So that's I think that's what happens.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yes, I did too.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Oh I just got a whiff of the chicken soit Yes,
I did, because it smells really good.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
My mom took away my brother's copy of The Outsiders,
which made me want to read.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
It even more. Oh, I loved the Outside Yah.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Betty Betty Broderick hometown murder all over the news when
I was ten or eleven. My dad's boss's daughter was
murdered when I was around fifteen.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Oh no, that started it all.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, Diane down Yep, she shot her three kids, and
still to this day will and try to say a
man on the road shot them. And there were six
replies saying, yes, this is the one. Yes, I read
this book, and I haven't seen the movie, but I
think about.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It all the time. Oh that's right. Farah Fawcet stars
in the Lifetime movie shut Up. Yeah. Yeah, and Ryan
O'Neill brilliant.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Uh, not actually a movie, but the a murder, but
the spontaneous human combustion episode of Unsolved Murderings Unsolved Murders.
And then she said, actually actual murder probably at Game
ed Gane.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
A game that's a classic.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Yeah, but I remember that episode of unsolved is it
Unsolved Mysteries, because it's the picture they show is just.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
This lady's legs. Yes, that's the only thing left sticking
out of the chair that she could.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
And it's amazing you actually look into spontaneous human combustion.
It's actually really interesting that, like there might just be
a friction in of things in your pocket.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah that lit on fire. And but you're so gassy
and fatty that you're basically a human candle. Yeah. I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
I think you mean me specifically, you know, but I
can shake the walls of my parts any who. Someone
wrote read Helter Skelter in seventh grade nineteen eighty two,
Girl Unsolved Mystery in General was my gateway drug. And
someone said, uh, let's see, yes, that number. The Son

(46:15):
of Sam got obsessed after the crazy John like Wizama
movie about it, which just shows how young people.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Are Summer of Sam like.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, that I was, And I was on a speed
speed when that movie came out, and I couldn't watch
John like Guizama.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Two. He was real Anne. Someone said, watching Silent Witness
with my mom? Which one was that?

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Was that?

Speaker 1 (46:35):
The uh Silent Witness?

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Someone said, uh, the you know, the Kara Homolko and
Paul Bernardo that we've talked about before.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Let's see here the West Memphis three.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Yeah, when I was in fourth grade, my friend's dad,
perhaps foolishly let us front of VHS.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Of Paradise Lost Slumber Party.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
Oh just too young, honey, No, oh my lord, you me.
That was like I'm going to step on the stop button.
Let's see here, the Clutter family, the from the in
Cold Blood.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, that's heavy, of course. Son of Sam.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
My mom was a pretty girl in the seventies in
New York and she, this person says, New York in
the seventies was an awful sounding and scary place while
also being fascinating yeah, like I would go back in
time and go there.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Yeah, but you'd need like an armored car. Yeah, or
to be like a punk crocker.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, someone says, I just remember stumbling across the date
line one night when I was in high school.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Fuck yeah, dude.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Lizzie Borden Manson Zodiac Another Lizzie Boordon Jonestown, West Memphis.
Three helter skelter, helter skelter, that's how you say it
in Yiddish.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
All classics, all good kickoffs, and not a lot of
Ted Bundy's. I thought there'd be many more. Yeah, I
guess he's a bit.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Old for this group. There are some more and rules, like,
she's just like rules.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
She enrolled, she was the greatest, and those books, she
just wrote books that were so easy to read.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
They were easy, like Stephen King books. Yes, like this
is intense and complicated, but I don't feel stupid.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
And also she would She's made single like one off
murders interesting, which I never was interested in. But like,
you know, we're getting behind the mentality of a person
who like killed their wife or whatever.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
I need to go back and reread a couple of
those because like in my mind now I'm too sophisticate,
and I don't care, and I don't want to know
about Ted Bundy anymore, and like I know everything, but
like if she's such a great writer, then I should
just be able to go through it. Yes.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Well, and also her Ted Bundy That's a Stranger beside
Me is great because it's her first person account of
working with Ted Bund.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
How stoked is she that that happened to her?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Though?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
She's a little stove for real. And she's also she
is in if you look up Dying Downs. She's interviewed
in that twenty twenty. No, she's still alive back then,
she's since past. She's the best interviewer because she's like
someone's sassy mom. Can we do a book club and
like read one of them? Yeah together, like when we
haven't read before. Okay, I'm actually really interested in the
Lacy Peterson case. You're not, no, that was in your

(49:24):
It was in Modesto, which is very It's in the
East Valley basically a central valley, East Bay. Like, there's
no way he.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
Didn't do it right, Oh, you one hundred percent in it?

Speaker 3 (49:35):
I know.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
It's so it's so gross. This is a new Simpsons.
It's oh and how many people.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
I loved how many people wrote to us because they're
going to do a true, a true version, not a
not a not like OJ but a real version of
John Benet. And we had maybe ten different people going, you, guys,
have you seen this which.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Is a super Bowl Karen?

Speaker 3 (49:59):
Yes, it really Like I know we said this before,
but we need to watch this together, like we need
to have special episodes.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yes, that you can.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
We'll just we'll all watch it together. We'll all watch
it together. That's actually a great idea because you know
our friend Jo de Rosa and Pat Walsh. Yeah, they
have a horror movie podcast where they watch the movie
and talk during it. And it's so hilarious because you
can watch the movie yourself, but then you can watch
it with people. It's as if you have two friends

(50:28):
that are dominating the conversation.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
We watch. Wrestling does that too, but they were.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
We'll watch like the watch WrestleMania four and just fucking
talk about it and there's like silent moments in it
and it's fine because we're all watching it together. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
I mean, but you and I won't shut up. Look,
I will be able to Yeah, I'll be talking a
watch I edit that out. What that we're gonna get high? Well,
we could do whatever we want. The only way I
yell at television is what come high?

Speaker 2 (50:52):
And it's pretty I remember because I watched the Oscars
with you, one of the greatest.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Oh it's funny blaming.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Wait, we do have a I have a corrections corner moment,
right because the one A couple people wrote this and
I was so embarrassed, but it also made me laugh,
like cry laugh. I do not think that Manitoba is
a city in Canada.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
I know I said it.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
The way I said it made it sound like that.
Although I can't claim to know inherently know the geography
of Canada, I do.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
No one said that, did they.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
It was the way I said it because I said
the bus went from Brandon to Manitoba. That's like saying
it's goes from Las Vegas to California. Essentially, calm down, well,
but just so people know. But I mean, at the
same time, if it's written in Wikipedia, I'm reading it
to you and I'm not going to double check anything.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Listen, this is not We're clearly the most researched podcast
Manitoba's a province and I know that. Okay, right now,
I am looking up the word whore in are my
favorite murder Gmail cool because I needed to find the
email that said notes and resources about sex workers. In

(52:09):
episode ten oh so, someone named Sam wanted us to
know that I know that neither of you are involved
in sex work. Thanks Sam, you don't know that, so
I figured I would just let you in on a
few things. First Off, a lot of sex workers and
people in the quote adult industries take a lot of
justified offense at the word prostitute, which is another way

(52:29):
of saying whore, which obviously doesn't fly. Some prefer to
be called escorts, but over calling people involved with sex
workers is really the right option, which I did feel.
There were some people pointing out that we were like,
kind of rude. I was kind of rude about sex work,
and I want to clear it up. So this person said,

(52:52):
the way the quote work is highlighted that it's a
job that should be considered as normal as being a
paralegal or construction worker. Furthermore, most cops really don't give
a fuck about sex workers in any capacity. This extends
to people in porn as well, that is why safety
and clarity and communication and a level of protection are

(53:12):
inseparable and sex work, and why hearing about a male
porn actor raping and harassing female co stars is just
as if not more jarring than hearing about another piece
of trash serial killer. That said, there are really good
resources out there for people and sex work that offer
help and advice for awful situations that may arise. I
highly recommend SWOPUSA dot org and Sex Workersproject dot org

(53:36):
for anyone in sex work. I just wanted to clear
that up that I said something about like how no
one chooses to be a prostitute. Yeah, and I understand
that it is so much bigger than that, and I
felt I feel bad for saying that.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Well, and I like the fact that we have listeners
that then send us information like constructive and because it's
very true and we are and we've said in a
million times but to people having conversations about something that
we're interested in, we definitely make mistakes constantly, and so
anytime you hear any of that, especially if it's something

(54:14):
that you take offense to or that you think needs
we need education on, we are happy and open to
hear about it becau.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Especially because nothing terrible has happened to us either either
of us, Like, it's not we're we're saying this from
experience exact. We haven't had our fucking sister or a
cousin or whoever get murdered. So we're a little more
flippant about it than we would be if these things
had happened.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
To us, right exactly, And we don't.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
We we just don't have the interest of the of
We have just the interest from distance, and that's the
reason that we can take take the take that we have.
But we also in no way want to offend people
or or and we certainly aren't judging anybody at all,
and we absolutely would never judge a victim of any kind.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
This guy made a good point, which is like, you
guys have a we have a platform that we can
announce these things, and so we're lucky and we should
do it. And I totally agree. And I don't want
to seem flippant about sex work being like a lark,
you know, or like like not a big deal or
not a choice, which is choice, and it doesn't mean

(55:20):
that you're a bad person or.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
No, not at all. And if you get yourself into
a situation. It's great that.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
I mean that that's a beautiful way to end that email,
which is, here's some constructive like a direction someone can
go if they want to go in that.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Direction totally, so they do have options. I agree. Very cool. Yeah,
I feel like this was a more serious episode of
my favorite murder. It's kind of personal, well because it
was kind of about us. It was about us a
little bit. I mean, these these are the things that
fucked us up start, These are the reasons this podcast exists.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
I have to say it definitely fucked me up, but
it also I got I was also thrilled to understand.
I feel like I was raised very I kept away
from the realities of life. Both of my parents were
like blue collar workers. My dad's a fireman, my mom's

(56:18):
a nurse, so they saw a lot of the bad
stuff of life, and they wanted to keep my sister
and efe so far away from it. And it drove
me crazy because I think I always had this sense
of like, there's more going on than they're telling me.
So every time I would find an and rule book,
or I would read an article or whatever, I felt
like I was getting one more piece of like what's
really going on? And I think that that's that's another

(56:41):
way to look at it, and maybe a good way
to look at it too. It's just like, as we
said a million times, it's almost like the more information
you have and the more you know, the better off.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
You are, Like the adult we are as I think
children especially understand that the adult world is something we
don't totally get, and we're always like as children are
trying to understand it, and so we know someone's hiding
something from us, and we know like when something happens,
our parents react to it and we can sense it.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Yeah, we want to know. Like you and I are
curious fucking people. Some people aren't. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
I think the people who are into into murder and
into true crime are curious fucking people who want to
who want to know the dark side, even if they
know that it's going to ruin them a little bit.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, because but it's almost like the option. It's like
better that than not knowing.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
And some people are like I just don't want to know,
which completely makes sense, but I'm I've never been that person.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
I've always talked to my therapist like how great it
would be just to be like a fucking I'm going
to be a I want to just live my life
in suburbia and be unaware of all the awful things
that could happen. And I wish, I really truly wish.
I want it to be that way, but you don't.
But I'm so fucking happy I'm not me too, because

(57:57):
then we get to do this. Yes, yeah, we're dark
and it's okay. Hi, hey Karon, Hey, well this has
been episode twelve of my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Thanks for listening. Uh, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe.
Please do that, you guys. That helps us a lot,
and we're doing so crazy great. Our numbers are huge
and it's because of you, guys, So thank you so
much for listening.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Totally go to Paralel audio dot com and buy your
Amazon shit from there and listen to the other podcasts
and what you love us, and of course, don't forget
to stay sexy, stay sexy, and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Bye bye