13 - Thirteen Going On Murdy

This week Karen and Georgia tell each other their favorite murders from the 1980s, featuring The Preppie Murder and the Keddie Murders. Plus your favorite murders and lots of stabby talk!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
All the way down to the LVC. Are we gonna
podcast down to the LVC today?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, this is Karen on the one too. That's Karen
on the one too.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
That that's Georgia on the three fours.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
There we go, Hey, welcome to my favorite murderer.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
This is Karen.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's Karen. This is Georgia. Remember our voices.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Remember, make mental pictures and then.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Listen to horrible things from us. Think, get ready to party,
party with knives. Guys.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
There's so much going on, so much going on. This
is this is gonna be chock full.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah. This so this episode is about nineteen eighties.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Murders, eighties murders. It's episod so lucky thirteen yay. And
we decided that we do well when we decide these things.
It's so random. We're just trying to interest ourselves and
make something that we think will get for me. I
was trying to think of something to make us dig
deep and go maybe off our My standard interest is

(01:21):
the murder of marginalized people so that I can come
back and talk about and shake my finger at society
and how society works and how we've wronged and how
we've all been so wrong. Yeah, and we've wronged and
been wrong. But then I think last week we got
a little deep and personal and kind of sad, and
so I was trying to think of like eighties murders
would be like immediately, I'm thinking, come home in the moment, like,

(01:45):
you know, it's a Cyndi Lauper feel. It's a fun
triangle pink triangles and light blue dots type of feel.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, I should let you know that mine isn't fun. Okay,
mine is marginalized people.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I mean, I feel like there's almost no way that
it's not gonna be that way.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
Well, the eighties just did a number on murder because
I feel like there was just there was a lot
of horrific murders coming out.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yes, And I think when I was researching mine, I
found when people talk today about that we live in
rape culture in the eighties, it was like that flag
was flying high.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well, it wasn't a rape culture back then, because no
one cared about rape. It was like, wasn't it like
legal to rape your wife?

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, and it was like she wore a short skirts,
so she deserved it, and everyone would high five in
the courtroom.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
There wasn't a rape.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
It was fucked up.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
It was in a rape culture because it was just culture.
It wasn't rape.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, there was no delineation. It was just like it
was this is culture and too bad accepted.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
There's nothing you can do.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Right, don't worry. You shouldn't have worn that and you
shouldn't have talked to this person, Karen. What do you
have in front of you?

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Oh guys, yeah, before we get into the main course,
let's let's do some apps.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Let's have it appetizer, hose.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Hour, Yes, give me some murder consumme.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
Now.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
People talked about this on the Facebook page.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Of course, there's there's no way to jump the Facebook page.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
When shit comes out, it's going to hit there first.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
But I too, like someone who posted this on our
Facebook page, bought the in Touch weekly that had Jean
Benet's cases finally solved on the.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
Comera, but that they don't. But they're like, but we're
not telling you right.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Well, it can't be for sure, because now it's gone
into it's almost like JFK theorists, where it's all just
split into these lunatic satellite theories. The reason I think
this one has much more weight to it is because
it's the original private investigator that they that the Ramsey's hired.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah, but if the Ramseys hired them or he is
he gonna disclose what he knows about the Ramses.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
I mean you would think not, but then he's no
longer on their payroll. He just started investigating independently from
from when they were cleared. But someone made this great
point on the Facebook page that like rung my bill,
which is you cannot clear the Ramses if the case.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Has not been solved.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Right, somebody came in and was like, don't worry about them,
They're fine, and it's like, but there's no person. It's
not like you're saying that, and then you're bringing up
this is the actual suspect.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
And the reason we know they're not guilty is because
of so and so. Because still they still haven't cleared
all the evidence that points to them.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
There's so much, and there's just so much it's it
becomes like the it's the Jack the Ripper thing where
when you when you go over the path over and over,
everything gets muddied and crazy and you suddenly don't know
where the path isn't.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
Well, the thing that's frustrating to me is that anytime
someone is like, here, here's the theory and here's why.
Every single one of them makes total sense. Sure, and
you're like, okay, I could see that, and they are like,
they pick and choose the evidence that supports that, and
it makes sense. Yeah, And then you hear you know,
the evidence is something totally different.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
You're like, that makes sense too, right. So it's hard.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
It's very hard.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
And in this article itself, this happened to me, which
here I'll say this first.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
This is how terrible I am with the digital age
we live in.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
This article was four pages long and I dipped out
on page three.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was like, I can't read that. I don't want
to read this anymore.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
But I'll tell you why, because it's this what's his name,
Allie Gray is this private investigator. So he's got a
team of people helping him for this investigation. They think
it's a guy named Michael hell Goth.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Who did it?

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Oh, they say, who they think did it?

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, and they think he did it with other people.
But this guy has killed himself right quote unquote killed
himself since that time which the bullet went from left
to right and the gun was laying on the right
hand side, so they're like, that's not a suicide, right,
So they think that he was killed to be silenced,
as the people that did it with him want to

(05:53):
make sure that he doesn't fuck them up and get
them sent to jail.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
So they think it's one guy or a multiple guys.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
They think that there was multiple guys. It's it's all
different people saying all different things.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
And then why wouldn't they kill if it was just
the two of them? I could see that. But if
if it was three, yeah, okay, so it's three, then
why didn't whoever killed that one guy killed the other
guy too?

Speaker 3 (06:12):
They could still do it or maybe they have, Like
we don't know because we don't know who those other
two people are. But apparently this guy, Michael Hell got
the Allie Ollie.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Gray for some reason. That name will not stay in
my head.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
No, Alie Gray says, this guy is caught on tape
admitting to the murder.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
And what's the tape? They see the.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
Tape, it's yeah, it's it's uh, it's let's see. The
tape was removed from Mike's house after he died in
nineteen ninety seven, but apparently it was overlooked by the
police and returned to Mike's family.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
And why do they think he did it, Because because
he admittes.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
It on this tape.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
And then there's there are witnesses who say they saw
three men leave the house in a station wagon. There's
a girlfriend who says, my boyfriend came back in a
stage wagon I'd never seen before, changed bloodsplaslo.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's a bunch of that kind of shit, But it's nothing.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Nothing is being reported to the police in a firm,
factual way as far as I can tell from this
very slightly scammed article. Here's why I stopped reading this
article because one of the people whose picture is next
to Olie Gray's in the article is a guy named
John It looks like Kennedy or Cannaddy. And he has

(07:25):
a lot to say about this guy and what he's like.
And he killed cats when he was little, and he's
really messed up, and he owned a taser and Jonvinie was.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Tased and all this different stuff.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Unfortunately, in the second paragraph it says, I'm shoot, sorry,
I'm on the wrong page. On the third page of
this article, it says Kennedy, who has a questionable past
himself after being sentenced to three years supervised probation in
nineteen seventy nine for sexual assault.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
On a child.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Oh my god, phoned the Boulder Police Department nearly twenty times.
No one would call me back, he says, so immediately
that's when I was like, why am I reading this article?
This is basically this is the reason nobody's listening to
these theories is because you now have a child rapist.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
That's like, I know who did it?

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, well that's like criminals, you know, it's reporting each other.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's never going to be solved.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
It's the messiest fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Do you think it'll ever I don't think it'll ever
be solved.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
I mean I have to say, I don't know. But
I had to buy.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
This Yeah, no, no, you needed to do that. I'm
glad you brought it out of your bag. And I
was like, yeah, why didn't I think of that?

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yay.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Every page of this magazine is absolute trash, including this
article that's all just like and of course they have
all the pictures of like yeah, Patsy's writing and then
the note and all everything you'd want.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
But it doesn't help anything.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
No, I don't think it'll ever be solved, and I
don't unless we can do some kind of mind reading
in the future.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I don't think it's going to be solved.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
What's going to help me though a lot, is that
uh true crime series they're going to do about this case.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
I can't wait for that. I'm gonna watch the shit
out of it.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
But like, will they include things from child rapists? That's
what I'm wanting now, is like, how who's fact checking.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
That total script? Totally?

Speaker 4 (09:16):
No, no, no, not not anyway unless someone has a
deathbed confession, which were so oh I read a whole
thing of like ten deathbed confessions.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
And it was like fucking amazing.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
What was that uncracked?

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Something like yeah, I probably cracked like that, which I'm like,
I hope there's a deathbed confession. I feel like if
anyone's it's gonna be Burke Ramsey's deathbed confession. Yeah, so
we got to so you and I need to survive
for another what seventy let's say let's got let's put
it on Let's say it doesn't smoke, and put it
on seventy more years.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Let's say he doesn't smoke and doesn't have some strange
cancer lurking inside from and the way Patsy did from
being involved in a terrible child murder.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Guilt cancer I like.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
To call it.

Speaker 4 (09:58):
And maybe and so hopefully the the dad will be dead,
then whoever outlives each other is going to have deathbed confession.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Now do you think when John Ramsey dies there's going
to be some shit that comes out that he's keeping
from people because he's the rich, he's the money man.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
That's like, who's it.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Going to come out from?

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (10:16):
So he dies and someone's going to be like I
didn't want to say this when he was alive. No,
because I think I guess only if well.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Do they want his kid to know about it?

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Or if Burke didn't do it?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Sorry, but just to entertain sure he dies, Burke gets
the secret the key to the secret lock box at
the bank or.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Whatever something like that. Yeah, where like it just opens
a new chapter.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
I don't think he seems like such a private person.
I can't imagine he'd be like here, here you go. Everyone.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Would you say he's fiercely private.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
I wouldn't say that out loud. That's for me to do.
Fiercely private.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
I think I like the idea that I spent this
two ninety nine so you wouldn't have to thank you.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, I'm going to try to do that for you
when it gets solved. Is that going to be worth something?

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah, I'm definitely putting it into a ziploc bag and
putting it in a file folder.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Put it in your vault.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
That's right at the bank.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
You guys will both have vaults.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
It'd be amazing to have a vault that when you die,
you open it up and it's a bunch of old
in touch weeklies.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Like not even that old though, they're like from like
mid nineties, because yeah, talk about on the main course.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
Oh, the one thing I do want to say first,
our Facebook page is blowing up so crazy. We love
that people keep joining it. It's so fun and uh,
we're we're going to we we had to. It grew
so quickly that we had to get some people I

(11:50):
believe their names are Alex and Ari and we had
to get them to moderate. So we just want to
be respectful of the fact that they're actually doing work
for us and keep trying to keep the Facebook page
is readable and as fun for everybody as possible, so
patients as we kind of have weird growing pains because

(12:10):
it isn't the original three hundred people who are, like,
you know, their own little club, and we're sorry it
can't be that way anymore.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
It's almost thirty five hundred. It's fucking crazy. It's huge.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
And also, thanks to you guys on the Facebook page,
we also made the fucking we made the top fifty
comedy podcasts on iTunes.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Which is crazy crazy? Is that so quickly? Yeah, thank
you guys so much for participating so much.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
The only way we can get on that is if
you guys rate, review and subscribe. Excuse me, get out,
get it out now, So please keep doing that because
I was very fucking exciting.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Oh and also I haven't checked the Gmail for your
emailed hometown murder stories in a.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
While because they go, yeah, they went a little crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
There's so fucking many.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
So we will get back on that and do a
mini minisode yeah of that pretty soon.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Like I'm also because of the Facebook page, and like
I'm really aware of quotes that I'm that we're saying
because people have been making these inspirational.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Posters that are so hilarious.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
So funny of stupid, like not stupid, but like hilarious
quotes we've been saying.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, it's very cool, it's so rad.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
So now every time I say something, I'm like, is
this going to be your favorite?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I don't start trying to talk in quote.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm not going to. I don't want to. I don't
want to.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
But then you pull out of like notes in your pocket.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
I happen and like my hand has writing all over it.
But anyway, do you want to go first?

Speaker 1 (13:38):
I will go first?

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Eighties murder come home in the morning quick, that's what
eighties makes you think of?

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, but immediately Cindy Laupper, Yeah, because I was a
total eighties kid. So this murder happened. I completely remember it.
It was nineteen eighty six. I was sixteen, was like
right right there when I was starting to go like,
oh shit, like the real world is heavy duty.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
Sixteen is realizing that, yeah, bad things can happen to Yeah,
And yet was I still a blackout drunk?

Speaker 1 (14:13):
You bet I was? Lady?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Did I still walk alone at night?

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Ell?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
It's I was the queen of that can happen in
my dad?

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Right?

Speaker 1 (14:23):
So my murder is the preppy murder?

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Do you remember that preppy murder Robert Chambers and Jennifer
Levin of New York City nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
No tell me everything.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Okay, So this was big because back then, and this
it's so funny to talk about and to look it
up because it now seems like one hundred years ago.
But in the eighties, the big thing back then was
being rich. This was like a little bit after Revenge
of the Nerds where people started to acknowledge that there
was another way to be besides popular, rich, blonde, skinny

(14:55):
on coke and wearing an eyes on shirt.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Right, it's like us against them kind of a thing, exactly.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
But up until that point, it was basically.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Like this is the only thing you can be, and
if you're anything else, you're just invisible and no one
gives a shit about you, or you'll get beaten up
and thrown into a garbage can. So that was it
was very much like the Greed is Good Gordon Gecko
era of like the poster that had the Porsche with
the naked lady on it.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
That was like boys and their toys. It's like it's
a standard fair.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
It's like everyone was assumed to be reaching for the
sand goal of being wealthy exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
And now when you watch American Psycho, which seems totally
insane now, it really was like that. That's just like
a satirized, campy version of exactly how it was. So
uh in August twenty sixth, nineteen eighty six, it was
right before people were going back to college or going
away to college for the first time, and there was

(15:50):
a bar.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
I believe it was the Upper west Side. I should
have written it down.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Sorry, it could be the Upper eas Side, but I
think it was the Upper west Side, and it was
called Dorian's Red Hand, and that's where all the rich kids,
prep school kids used to go. They could actually go
there and drink under age, and their parents kind of
knew that that's where they went, and they liked that
they went there as opposed.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
To anywhere else because they knew where they were.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, they knew where they were.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
It was a little bit of a clubhouse, was very insidery,
and it was like a very specific sect of like
from like seventeen to twenty three year olds that went
to this bar.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
And they probably weren't blackout drunks too. It was like,
you have a reputation, you need to hold your shit.
So it's not like they were going to some dive bars.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Right, It was like networking and kind of klubby. But
I think there was a ton of coke back then.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Oh my god, all the eighties ate all the coke.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
They did, they and at the beginning of the eighties
they thought coke wasn't bad for you. They honestly believed
it was like B twelve, which is the greatest. So anyway,
at this bar is a guy named Robert Chambers, and
he was as I found an old People magazine article
from nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I bet it's worth so much money.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
Which is well, it was online, but yeah, if I
had the real thing, but it talked about here's how
it described him. Robert Chambers seemed like every teen girl's dream,
the son of a record promoter. He grew up in
an elegant townhouse next to Carnegie Mansion, and as a
child he belonged to the Knickerbocker Grays, which was an
anachronistic but very Uppercross boys drill team whose members have

(17:16):
included Vanderbilts, Roosevelts.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
And Rockefellers.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
He was no scholar, but he'd been a debate team
member and soccer star at York Preparatory School. He was
a rather charming, pleasant society boy, sums up his former headmaster.
Every girl had a crush on him.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
So he would have never dated us, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Oh, no, this guy. If I was in the bar
with him, he would have looked past me like I
was part of the wallpaper.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Oh my god. But he had kind of fallen on
hard times. And the thing is with the perspective of
knowing that this was a world of like Sperry topsiders,
people like I grew up in a farm town, and
people tried to pretend like they were preppies because PREPPI
was basically saying, you go to prep school, you're rich,

(17:59):
and no one was in my town.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yet tons of people tried to dress like that.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
That was like the mall culture and the like the
look of the day, clean cut wealth totally, and like
influence too, because if you were prepp like, yeah, he
went to school with the fucking Vanderbilts, you have influence exactly.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
So his parents got divorced and then the money stopped
coming in from the dad. And he also they say
from age fourteen he had a pretty bad drug.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Habit, so.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
His parents had separated.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
He got kicked out of Boston University for bad grades,
and that was He was only nineteen when this happened,
so he'd only been there for a year, so he
fucked up there pretty quickly. According to his advisor, he'd
been treated the spring before a drug rehab program in
Minnesota for coke. But he came back to New York
City and it was quote unquote on the circuit and

(18:52):
he was six foot three, two hundred and twenty pounds,
and he was as popular as ever when he came back.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Did you see a photo of him? Was he's super hot? Yes?

Speaker 1 (18:58):
You know who he looks like.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
He's like a kind of a more buffed out You
remember the reporter from Making a Murderer Who was that
good looking guy. He looks like that guy, but with
a crazier, more cartoony, square chin, so like good jeans,
sharp faced, the kind of the first guy you would
see when you walk into a Do they.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Have your favorite attribute of a person? High forehead? Did
he care?

Speaker 1 (19:25):
I think he did. He was perfectly set up.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
He was like tall football player looking, blue eyes, dark hair,
big eyebrows.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Does one of those children ever turn out like just
kind of uglier plane.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
No, because it's there. It's all the breeding. It's like
those the rich people don't pick plain people. It's not
like I love this handsome woman for her brain. I
never fucking have.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
That makes sense kind of ever.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
So anyway, so he was there, and then this girl,
Jennifer Levin was there, and she was described as a magnet.
Everyone seemed to gravitate toward her. She was five seven,
one hundred and twenty pounds brunette with great style. She
was voted best looking and best figure in her senior
class yearbook. She like parties better than books, but she

(20:12):
had a goal.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
She had saved.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Sixteen hundred dollars from working in a restaurant over the summer,
and she was sending herself to junior college.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
So she wasn't a rich wasn't a rich girl.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
No, but she was like in the mix. So I
think she was like she may have gone to those schools,
but no, it sounded like she was more.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, she was more of made herself.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
She's the perfect murdering them self made that's right.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Well, the thing is like her. She had an uncle
that wrote for sports illustrated. I don't remember what her
parents did. I do remember very distantly reading a big,
long article about her, either in the New York Times
or the New Yorker. But it was all about how
her parents were more like the artie types, like someone
had money somewhere, but like she had to earn her own.

(20:56):
And so you'll see this girl gets totally fucked raimed
by these this defense attorney set up.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
I'm got to tell me, Okay, I keep going. I'm sorry,
I have never I don't know this one. I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Okay, this was This was kind of amazing, and actually,
looking back on it now, I'm amazed of how we
all just ingested things. There was, you know, no Internet.
You just kind of took it as it was given
to you.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
So, so this is just a quick story.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
She had charm.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Her family recalled what happened one day three weeks ago,
three weeks before the murder, when she, writing in a taxi,
told the cavity that she was nervous about her impending
driver's exam. Before long, the hack had shut off the
meter and was tutoring her in parallel parking.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Oh so that's how charming she was.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
She never got to take that test because she went
to Dorian's Red Hand that night and everyone was there
kind of saying goodbye and like everyone's going off to
college whatever, and Robert Chambers is there now. They had
dated a little bit before that. Robert Chamber's current girlfriend
breaks up with him in front of everybody by throwing

(22:00):
a bag of condoms at him and saying, you're not
going to be using these with me anymore. And people
think that the reason she broke up with him was
because of Jennifer Levin, that she found out that that
he had been cheating on her with Jennifer Levin.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
That's a theory.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
I didn't find anything that was like this is definitive, Yeah,
but it is definitive that this girl very publicly humiliated
him and broke up with him in the really hideous way.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
So what four is?

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Somewhere there was a couple different times listed in different articles.
I read somewhere between three forty five and four thirty
in the morning, Jennifer and Robert Chambers leave this bar
and walk across the street into Central Park, which was
apparently the common thing is people would like, they said,
if Dorian's Red hand was the meat market.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Central Park was the girl.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
So you'd like you'd meet somebody in chat with them,
and everyone would go into the park to have sex.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
That's like that was a dangerous park back then.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Most Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Like what respectle girl wants to get boned in Central Park?

Speaker 3 (23:04):
But I guess it was kind of like also Upper
west Side, if it is West Side, which I think
it is. I remember walking there when I lived in
New York and being shocked at how safe it's seemed.
I was walking home at like eleven o'clock at night.
The streets are super busy, well lit, there's a doorman
every five hundred feet.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
It's true, I think.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Also, they lived in a world where they thought nothing
could ever happen to them, right. So two hours later,
Jennifer's body is found by a bicyclist in riding through
Central Park. It's found behind the metro Politan Museum of Art.
Her shirt and bra are pushed up around her neck,
her skirt is above her waist, and her underwear are

(23:44):
fifty yards away, and her whole body is bruised and battered,
has cuts and bite marks all over it. Wow, So
the police start processing the scene. And they don't say
how they know this, but I found this in every
article about this. Robert Chan watched the police process the
scene from across the street. He lived like minutes away

(24:06):
walking distance, and he watched them as like they put
up the tape and did the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Probably like the doorman said he was, he was standing
outside the door something.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yes, someone someone saw saw it.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
So basically, when the cops do their footwork, they find
out that he's the last person seen with her. So
they go to his fancy townhouse. He opens the door
and he's got scratches on his face and arms, and
it's when you see the picture.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
It literally is like.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
One long one in the middle, shut little ones down
the side. It's a hand scratched down his face and
he had him on those arms, and he said it
was his cat. Then the cats. Then the cops find
out the cat had been declared, so then his Then
he changes his story and said, yes, I did leave
the bar with her, but then she left to go
get searettes and I never saw her after that.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Well she didn't smoke. So then finally they get him.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
He has a taped confession, and this is what his
tape confession is he says. He says he and Jennifer
had gone from the bar to Central Park, where they
had sex, including a bondage game in which Levin tied
up Chambers wrists with her panties in the middle of this.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
In his version of events, something went wrong.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
She hurt me.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
He says, I told her to stop.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
She wouldn't, so, freeing his hands, he said, I pulled
her backwards, and then he claims he hit her once
and that's how she got kill.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
It was so unfair, dude, that's so unfair.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Well, the assistant district attorney who was in that interview
said to him, I've been in this business a while
and you're the first man I've seen raped in Central Park.
So people weren't buying it from the outset.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
It.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
It upsets me so much when a person like him
can't just you're taking a little responsibility, just go the
whole way instead of blaming it on her.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
It's so unfair, I know, but it's we are talking about.
This is like I'm sure part of it. This is
a drug addict. This is a person who's slowly sliding
down the status the status mountain, and he probably is
used to getting everything he wants and having everything go
his way, and if he's a narcissist and possibly a sociopath,

(26:22):
he's not going to handle this correctly ever or cop
to it.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
And he probably doesn't have the kind of parents that
are like, hey, guess what do the right thing?

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, it's all it's true. I guess I'm coming at
it from my own personality.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Why can't things be good?

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Of course, So this raise scenario was considered to be.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Highly unlikely in the light of the fact that Chambers
was more than a foot taller than Jennifer. She was, Oh,
this says she was five foot four. That's much different
than five seven, which is from the different article anyway,
But he was a foot taller than her and one
hundred pounds heavier than her.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
So everyone's just like, yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Now here's the problem the way his defense attorneys did it.
The articles that start coming out, because of course, the
media has to go with the grossest version of the story.
So the New York Daily News had headlines like how
Jennifer corded death and sex play got rough and her
reputation was totally attacked, while while Chambers was portrayed as

(27:23):
a Kennedy esque preppy altar boy with a promising future.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Wow yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh why media?

Speaker 4 (27:31):
Why?

Speaker 3 (27:32):
I mean, And it's that gross thing of like I
see you see people talking about it online all the
time now where it's like that planned parenthood shooter where
they were like it's he was sad and lonely, and
it's like, why are we talking about how hard it
was for the guy who just shoddled. These people were
not talking about the victims.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
Maybe they were sad and lonely too, and they didn't
fuck shoot anyway.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
I mean, it's the weird media bias that you know,
we're all starting to become more and more aware of.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
And one one outlet picks it up and the others
all have to go along with it.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Right, And it's like it's the same thing as these
days of like clickbait.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
It's just the old version of clickbait.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
In court, the defense sought to depict Levin as a
promiscuous woman who kept a quote unquote sex diary, except
for that never existed. She had a small notebook that
contained the names and phone numbers of her friends and
notations of ordinary appointment.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
So she just had like a day.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Runner, like everybody else. And they tried to say she
had a sex diary and she was that much of
a slut as if Hey guess what, even if that
was true, you don't get to murder her now.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
But in the eighties that's a legitimate defense.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
But these tactics, luckily, they were met with public outrage,
and there were protesters demonstrating outside the courtroom calling themselves
justice for Jennifer. So people got super pissed that that's
the way they did it. And the prosecutors came right
out and said he was high and drunk and he
killed her in a rage because he could not perform sexually,

(28:58):
and that's really what happened. The jury deadlocked for nine days.
A plea bargain was struck in which Chambers pleaded guilty
to a lesser crime of manslaughter in the first degree,
which is a Class B felony, and to one count
of burglary for thefts from nineteen eighty six. Who cares
about that? So he served from March twenty second, nineteen

(29:18):
eighty eight to February fourteenth, two thousand and three, and
then but he's still in jail now because he got
out and almost immediately got arrested again for selling drugs,
Like he tried to move to the South with his girlfriend,
then he moved back to New York and basically just
they got him immediately and he's still in jail.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
Now, what was it like in jail for him that
he immediately went out and sold drugs?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Like he just didn't learn a fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
He didn't.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah, he never he never got clean, and I think
he probably knowing that that was something he would have
to face once he did.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
He's just like, fuck it, I'm.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
How did he get paroled if he wasn't even fucking
like reformed or like, I mean.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Right, these are the questions that we ask every fuck episode. Now,
But here's the gross part, or a grosser part.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
In April nineteen eighty eight, the tabloid television program A
Current Affair obtained and broadcast a home video showing Chambers
at a party when he was free on bail, So
this was before he before the trial, and he was
shown in the video playing with four lingerie clad girls,
choking himself with his hands while making loud, gaggy noises,
twisting a barbie doll's head off, and saying in a

(30:26):
falsetto my name is oops, I think I killed it why?
And there is a movie called The Preppy Murderer starring
William Baldwin and Laura Flynn Boyle as Jennifer Levin. Oh No,
that you can watch if you want to hear even
more of that hideous story.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
That makes me so sad. I want to know. I
want to know how.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
I want to know how his parents, how they reacted,
what they're doing now, they keep in touch with him.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
I want to know everything well.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
And also there was a ton of like, to me,
this is about he was very Catholic. He had a
lot of family in the Catholic church in New York City.
There was a lot of like anglic or not Anglican,
but his Catholic priests coming forward and people kind of
attesting because he was this fucking altar boy. It was
all that shit. And it's to me, it's the sexuality

(31:16):
issue between the Catholics and Jewish people, where it's a healthy,
normal thing to have sex and be sexual.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
She was Jewish and he was Catholic, yep.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
And I think it was there was that cultural thing
of like, yeah, she deserved it, or she was loose
or she did stuff like this.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
Or she was like asking for it, she was asking
for it. I mean, the tying up thing is interesting
to me because all right, let's say you were going
to go into Central Park to fool around when you're drinking,
like you just have a quick fuck. You don't you
don't role play and get into you know what I mean? Like,
I can't imagine someone being like, let's get let's get
so complicated into like our sex acts that we get

(31:55):
that we play with bondage in a park.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Maybe at home, but not in a not in the park.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
And also, in my opinion, the way that her clothes
were does not sound like she was she was complicit
in what was happening. Her shirt and bro being pulled
up to her neck, everything just seems like I get it.
If it's a quickie, you leave your clothes on and
pull your skirt up, fine, you know what I mean,
Like it's that kind of shit, and then being bitten
all over, Like nothing lines up now to anything being

(32:25):
casual sex at all. No, it's violent as it is,
so he's still in prison. Then he's still in prison,
thank god. Yeah, And I think it's I don't know,
it makes me happy that people were protesting, but I
think it's a really good thing of when you get
said a story of likeugh, the whole idea of rough
sex was completely a fabrication on his part, and then

(32:47):
this fucking newspaper just runs with it. Yeah, so it's like, oh,
they they had rough sex and it went out of control. No, no, no,
she thought she was gonna have a fun makeout session
with the cutest guy in the bar and he fucking
killed her.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
I wonder where they got them information that they had
dated before, because that suggests that she was like willing willing,
So I wonder if that's even true. Well, what it
means that they'd like, maybe they went out, you know,
on a date.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
To me, when it's when it says like, well they
went out before, it's like, well they had screwed before
and they were going to screw again in the park.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
So nay, that wasn't true. And yeah he raped her because.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
He sounds like they had had sex before from the information,
but that could not be true at all.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Well. Also, you know what makes me think of is
like this, we all like people for superficial reasons at first,
So it's like it's the tall, really good looking guy
who I'm sure was incredibly charming because he knew how
to mix in and blend in to make sure he.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
Could fit in with the rich kids.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
And so I'm sure it's that thing of like the
guy that you love in the bar, but then when
shit goes down and like it's like they're making out,
he can't get hard.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
It's her fucking fault, totally.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
It's that creepy thing where it's like you don't know
who people really are until like the shit goes down.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
So you had coke dick. Yeah, everyone knows what coke
dick is, right, I hope.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
So it'll be a very special episode.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
I hope people who listen to this know that, because
otherwise it's just people that shouldn't be listening to this
at all.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
So that's mine.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Wow, I had never heard of that one.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Really.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
I couldn't read when it happened, so maybe that was
kept away from me.

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah, probably, Yeah, and it's so you know, they made
it as sortid as possible.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, God, that's so oft well.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
Actually, so my murder from the nineteen eighties is one
that I hadn't heard about until the Facebook group talked
about it, Oh, you know about it? But I had
never heard of this one and it's so intense and
fucked up that I wanted to talk about it in
case other people hadn't heard it too, because I want
to ruin everyone's life.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, I'm so excited.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
And I guess there's like fucked up photos online that
you could see of the crime scene with the bodies.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
The ones I saw.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
The bodies are like blacked out, but you can see
certain things about it too, And I guess the photos
are really troubling, and I'm shocked that I didn't click
on it.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yes, do you mind if I guess?

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Is it Cabin twenty three the Keddy murder?

Speaker 4 (35:10):
It?

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Fuck yes? I only know very little.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Can twenty eight?

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Ki, See, I don't know that much.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
But I love this one because it's so fucking weird and'sperious.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Not that far from you in your hometown, right.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Uh is Well, it's it's ours in, but.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
It's like it's it's Central California, which is a very
weird area. Northern Central California is like no man's land.

Speaker 4 (35:37):
Totally totally. I mean, it's it's back for California. It's backwoods, yes,
which is so surprising. You come to LA and you
go to San Francisco and you you know, you all
these little towns and you don't think it's like that,
but then you that Nope, Yeah, there's a lot of
little towns, little mining towns and such where people just
stayed and cooked meth.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
It's like bikers and drugs essentially, at least don't kill us.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
There's definitely good bikers out there.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
There's very good bikers out there, for sure.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
I'm just making sure that okay, all right. So the
Keddy murders k Ed d i E. It's an unsolved
nineteen eighty one American quadruple homicide that occurred in Cuddy, California,
which was a former resort town in the foothills of
California's Sierra Nedada. And so it was kind of it's
like this little lake or this little forested area with cabins,

(36:30):
a bunch of cabins. This the murder took place in
Cabin twenty eight during the late evening of April eleventh,
nineteen eighty one, or the early morning of the twelfth.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So there were three victims. As I said, the first
one was Sue.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Her name was Glenna Sue Sharp and she was thirty six,
and her son John, who was fifteen, and John's friend
Dana Wingate, who was seventeen. And at some point after
the crime, it was realized that Sue's daughter, Tina, who
was twelve, was missing. So what happened was Sue Sharpen

(37:03):
her five children have been renting the cabin since November
nineteen eighty and on the night of April eleventh, it's
so complicated because Sue is home with her two youngest
boys we're little kids, and a friend of theirs named
Justin was staying the night. So there are three little
kids in the back bedroom, three boys, and this is
a tiny cabin. You can see pictures online of the
crime scene and what a small cabin it was. And

(37:26):
Tina came home, their oldest Sue's oldest daughter stayed at
the cabin next door, which is always like, you know,
like the chances, ma'am, yes, you know, and Tina, the
twelve year old, was wanting to stay with them, and
they were like, no, we want to you know, we're
the older girls. We want to be alone, which like
the guilt that she must have carried with her, the

(37:46):
older sister, for the rest of her life. So it's
ten PM and the next morning, the older sister, Sheila,
comes home and finds Sue and her brother and her
brother spent Dana just brutally murdered, brutally murdered. Let's see,

(38:08):
they had all all three victims had been bound with
medical tape and electrical appliance wire. Over twenty two feet
of medical tape of varying widths were found on the bodies,
and there was no medical tape in the house, so
it came from somewhere else. The bodies had been bludgeoned
with hammers, two distinct size hammers, so two different hammers,

(38:29):
and Sue and John had been stabbed repeatedly, including stab
stab wounds to the throat, which is like, fuck stabbyness, man,
is that gonna be an inspirational you know?

Speaker 1 (38:44):
It is?

Speaker 4 (38:44):
To me, like stab stabby in the head and neck
is like, because how long does it take to die
from a stab wound?

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Dude?

Speaker 3 (38:52):
I don't know, but it just makes me think of
my favorite Joe I survived. And there are people who
talk about being stabbed in the head and it actually
is so bad for the person because there aren't that
many nerves in your head. But but of course it is.
I mean, I'm that's a terrible thing to say. No,
not bad, but I mean, like, but yeah, it's horrifying.

(39:12):
Just being stabbed is horrifying.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
I know a guy who got his fucking throat slit
and survived.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I want to meet that.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
He was at the beach with his friends and some
like fucking psycho like meth had got in a fight
with him and he was walking away and the guy
came up behind him and he has like a gnarly
like tried to kill him.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Whoace.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
Guys, can we just say this right now, don't do methluck.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Meth is like basically, meth is like devil powder.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
It's boiling.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
It's like boiling your brain and all your your fucking
logical thinking. It's not good if you're if you have
a temper to begin with, it's just gonna fucking coke too.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Don't snort shit.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah no, don't snort it. But but meth.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
I have a friend Dave, who was on meth for
years and he couldn't get off of it because it's
insanely cheap, and it's highly addictive, and yet it's there's
shit in it that you should never be in the
human body.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
No tarah, my god, trash in it.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
We do not condone math on this pod, and.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
As fustly not, no way. We don't condone murder either,
even for our own entertainment.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Please, we're against it. Yeah you want to discuss it, though,
we do.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
But if you guys murder someone and it's like you
blame it on my Favorite Murder, we will not talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Let's just agree with that right now.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, you won't get famous on them.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
No, we will not talk about it.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
That's good. We should have said that in the beginning.

Speaker 4 (40:36):
If this is somehow tied to the Facebook group, to
fuck if you guys they keep wanting to have meetups,
we have nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
We're not going to talk about it. We don't.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
I don't condone a meetup from my Favorite Murder group
unless it's going to a live show that we're doing.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
And even then, please don't.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Murder us, guys. Please just be careful, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Be careful.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
Don't get stabbed in the head anyway, keep going anyways,
stabbed in the head.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
We actually that like that going off like that is
a little methy of us.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, which part how we just wow.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Didn't went down that path?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Well, we both had like three cups of coffee. That's lunch.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
We both I had a lot of coffee. So found
near John's body was a flimsy table knife and a
bloody hammer. Seven inch butcher knife was found nearby as well.
Fuck man, seven inch butcher knife. Examination of the bodies
to turn that each of the victims had been bludgeoned
with what I already said, all that stab wounds to

(41:35):
the throat. Dana, the boy who wasn't the who was
the friend, was manually strangled to death and bludgeoned with
another weapon, while Sue was bludgeoned with a rifle brought.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
By the killers.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
Just such a weird one pellet from that rifle. Fire
from the rifle, along with several pieces of the barrel sites.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I don't know what that is.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
I can imagine we're removed from the scene, but the
rifle itself is never recovered.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
The barrel sides are the little things that stick up
that help you aim at the at the end of
the barrel when you're shooting.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Are you a murderer, no country.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
It's just that's like bb gun, you know, like I'm
impressed rifle stuff.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
I think I'm right. I'm pretty sure I believe it.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Don't correct us.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
That's our new thing. We never want to be correct.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Don't correct us. It's gonna be in the back of
the shorts we make if we're wrong.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Let it be, yeah, don't be a know it all.
A bloody knife is also found among evidence found in
the trap. Okay, so basically the cops completely mungle this investigation.
So Tina is missing, she's the twelve year old girl,
which they didn't realize right away, and.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Because the whole fucking family's dead, right well, the three boys.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
In the back are fine and alive and supposedly didn't
hear anything, but there's conflicting evidence. There's a blood stain
on the door of the kid's room, and the one
of the main suspects his son was one of the
kids in the background, so why wouldn't he kill that kid?

(43:09):
And it's also there's also you know, who was the
target of this murder and why, And it's thought that Sue,
the mom, was because she knew something, maybe about drug making,
maybe she was, you know, one of the prime suspects.
Wife hated her and didn't know that the boys would

(43:29):
be home because I guess they were at a local
bar and hitchhiked home and weren't expected to be home.
So this murderer might have come in to either rape
her something and got and didn't expect Tina, the little
twelve year old girl, would be sharing a room with
the mom, so then had to kidnap her.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
So she's gone. She's found four years she's found.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
In nineteen eighty four, her skull and several other bones
were recovered in Butte County.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
And is that far away, I don't know. But the
skull was.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
Initially found and they thought it was a young boy,
and an anonymous collar called twice and said it's actually
Sue or it's actually Tina. And guess how many tapes
they lost of that recording, both of them, all all
of them. So the anonymous collar no trace of him.

(44:27):
It also says it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
I know.

Speaker 4 (44:30):
It's also said that a teacher had an obsession with Tina,
so maybe that was the case because she was missing.
But they were able to age the skull. She was
the same age she was killed pretty much right away,
so it's not like she was stolen and and kidnapped
and held kept.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, so she was killed.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
Let's see, so the boys, but okay, the boys were
found uninjured.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
The case grew cold.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Let's see, they released the original and backup copy of
the audio the anonymous call to an undisclosed member of
law enforcement, and they were released to the same person
and they disappeared. Let's see, the murders remained unsolved, although
it's active because good old fucking Reddit is like on
the case. And this is where I got a lot

(45:20):
of information from, including the main suspects, which is Martin's
Smart and his friend John bobed bou b Ed Bobidie Bobadie.
So Smart was an ext door neighbor who was good
friends with the local sheriff, like besties with the local sheriff, right,

(45:43):
And it was smart stepson who was staying in the cabin,
who was a little kid in the back. And then
when he was questioned by law enforce enforcement, he slipped
up and said he's quiet enough to where he could
have noticed something without me detecting him indicating your steps
and was a quiet kid that might have been might

(46:03):
have seen you at a murder scene, right, and then
those other kids, that little the little other little kids terrified.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Oh my god, Oh my god. Right, let's see.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
And then both Obedi had FBI connections and was federally
prosecuted because some of organized crime shit.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
So this guy was a fucking criminal as well.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
And it's like I was reading this ship and there
are so many criminals that were in this town that
it was like a multitude of suspects could have been
even let's see, hold on, let's see there were questioned
circumstantial evidence. But they're reopening the case. Oh but they've
both died of national natural causes.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Since then, those two suspects, Yeah, which is like.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Such a bummer that, uh, when when when the main
suspects die? Yeah, And even when they keep searching and
like come to the conclusion, it's just it's such a bummer.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Well, what's super weird to me is usually when people
get killed because they find out something they're not supposed
to know about, say a case or drug deal or whatever,
you don't get bludgeoned and stabbed a bunch of times.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's personal, that's true.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
And so Sue's body was tied up in a way
that was super sexual, but she wasn't raped. She was
basically found naked from the waist down, splayed open in
a humiliating manner, which is like it's almost like they're
wanting the person who finds them to be, you know, freak.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
The fuck out. Yea. Luckily the grad right, Luckily, the older.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
Sister was smart enough to make the little boys in
the back room come out at the window so they
didn't have to see this scene.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
And the other thing is the kid, the kid who
who wasn't part of the family.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
His head was placed on like a pillow, so it's
almost like they were taking care of him as if
they knew him.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
And he and he wasn't killed in the same manner
that the other kids were.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Killed, Like he was basically just a witness and had
to go right.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
So maybe they were, you know, it sounds like someone
was pissed off at this woman and this family and
fucking sent some kind of message to whom I don't know.
It's also said that there's a so there's a sketch
of a suspect that I think one of the kids
drew because they did say they saw someone or one
of the kids, and it looks a lot like it's

(48:25):
very similar to Ing and Lake, and they lived about
four hours south of Ketty, which is of course the
big serial killers. And if you look at the sketch online,
it fucking looks like them. Apparently Ing was Mike Charles.
Ing might have been in prison at the time. Although
it's kind of unclear.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
It's a sketch of one person or two people.

Speaker 4 (48:48):
I can't really tells. It might be a sketch of
one person in two different looks. Oh I see, but
it does definitely look like Lake. What was Lake's first name,
Leonard Lake?

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Thank you, Moving Bord.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
So I was so proud that I just thought of that.
I know, I'm really imp never you remember anything.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I don't eat. Perfect for having podcasts, right, sure.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
So in the in the in this past couple of months,
the Plumus County Sheriff Greg Hagwart has said, we're arriving
at points where we're going to be taking some next
steps in the case.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
And they're crediting Reddit. Yes, they're like straight up like that.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
It's because these fucking people who have become obsessed with
the case and are like dissecting it completely. It's pretty
amazing they tore down the cabin recently because people were
just like fucking going there all the time. Hagwood said,
there are people, some still living in the county who
know what happened and were possibly involved, whether directly or
after the fact, and circumstantial evidence was never enough to

(49:47):
charge these two guys that that everyone thinks did it.
And so so Dana Wingate, the kid who was a
friend who came over, was not killed in the same
fashion as the other two.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
He was beaten but not stabbed.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
He was strangled and was made comfortable while receiving a
cushion from the couch to rest his head on prior
to the execution. And you can see photos where like
his head is blacked out, but you can see that
his head is on a fucking pillow. And they're all
like next to each other too, which is so awful
to see each other die that way. Yeah, Okay, So
the last thing I want to say about this is

(50:20):
that so John and Dana, the two boys who were killed.
The two men who were killed were last seen walking
along State Route seventy near Quincy, so they were on
their way home and the crime may have already been
in progress when they arrived at home, So I feel
like Sue was the target, whether it was for rape

(50:41):
or some kind of revenge or something like that. I
think maybe she wasn't even supposed to get killed, So
it sounds to.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Me like it was botched.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
And then they walked in and the whole thing turned
into like, right, some kind of like a fight where
they had to kill everybody.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
Yeah, it sounds like it except for the kids in
the back, who maybe was one of the suspects.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
Kid steps in. Fucked up, fucked up.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
Oh, and someone on Reddit wrote, Keddy holds many skeletons
in its closet. There were in nineteen eighty one so
many potential perps in town that you could have stood
in the main street, thrown a dart with your eyes
closed and hit one. The Sharp family were in this
idyllic little resort town, surrounded by child blisters, drug runners,
professional criminals, corrupt cops and businessmen, habitual transient, and at

(51:28):
least one known serial killer.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Fuck, I know who's the known serial killer?

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
I know.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
I had his name, but I had never heard of him,
and I forgot to look him up.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I know it's so.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Because it makes me think that they're reopening it now,
not of course because of the Reddit thing. I love
the way this is like people are just be like, fine,
if you're not going to solve it, we're gonna fucking
solve it.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, and everyone keeps coming to the same conclusion.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
But also if it was an inside job or if
it was some kind of like corrupt cop situation, those
people it's like their power is gone, and so there's
like new blood that's like, yeah, we can't have this
just sitting and being like defining our town.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
Well, actually, the main the new sheriff was around back then.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
He initially got fired before the murders because he said
something inflammatory against the then sheriff, who was like you're
out of here. But then when he got back on
on the was reinstated, they forbid forbade him from from
researching this case.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
So now what's weird. Yeah, now that he's the sheriff,
he's like super fucking into it. It is, and it's on.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
I wonder how much evidence is missing, like those tapes,
Like I wonder how much people fucked with it.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, how hard it's going to be, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 4 (52:47):
Well, the fact that the main suspect was one of
the sheriff's like best buds and and evidence got lost
says so much about it.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Very suspicious.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah, evidence doesn't just get lost.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Right, you know how I first found out about this murder,
and it surprised me because it is in California, although
it really is like a different stage.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
That part of California is like.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
They're just no one lives up there, and then the
people that do are the people who are trying to
get away.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Absolutely essentially.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
But did you ever see the movie The Strangers?

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Oh, it's based on that.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
Well that's what they say, but they were like because
The Strangers was billed as a true story. But then
when I after I saw The Strangers, I was like,
that was so fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
What's the true story? And they're basically like the Manson
murders and the Keddy Cabin murders.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
So I didn't. I never saw that movie. It's not
similar at all.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Well, it's just people killing other people for no reason. Essentially,
it's the loosest version of based on a truth.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Say, well, there is a documentary about this murder that
came out in two thousand and four that I think
it was some kind of teacher was teaching his kids
how to make a documentary and someone suggested this murder,
and the guy the teacher got obsessed with it. So
I guess there's a pretty good documentary online. You'd probably
been on YouTube. I think it's called Cabin twenty eight
and it's just all the details of the murder.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Watch that.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, and it's fucked up nineteen eighties.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
You fucked up the eighties, the eighties, thank you. In
a lot of places, not as Cyndy Lapper as you
would want it to be.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
She did not get spread far and wide. Let's see.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
I'm going to look real quick on our Facebook page
and see, because we always put what the subject is
going to be yep, and and then you guys can
can tell us what your favorite murder of the subject is.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
And as you do that, I'm just gonna mention.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
That a girl whose Twitter handle is action Athena, Oh
my God, did a cartoon panel of us. It's from
the first episode, I believe it. I think so that's
what she said the first one.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
She heard.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
And it's she posted.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
It's on our Twitter feed my Favor Murder at My
Favor Murder, and it's just of course we love it.
It's us being drawn, is us talking to each other
in George's living room. But it's just super exciting that
people are spending their time making things like that totally
and recreating shit we've done.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
It's a real quote, it's a real conversation that we had,
and it's fucking hilarious and very funny. I it makes
it means so much to me that people care. I know,
it's so fun and it's really cool. Not to tease you, guys,
but we're gonna have t shirts for sale soon. We're
planning a lot, a couple of live shows, maybe once
a month if we can. So you're gonna you'll hear

(55:42):
that first at the Facebook group. So I would join
the Facebook group so you can get like the first
and my Favor Murder on Twitter. We're pretty good at
by keeping up with that, Okay, so some of so,
so someone named Jessica we're not saying real names, right,
or someone named Jessica said her favorite is Gary Heidnik.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
He kidnapped and killed women by.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
Digging pits in his basement and keeping the women in
there straight up buffalo bill shit.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
WHOA, yeah, I've never heard of that.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Someone named Amber said, I think this is when this
one is kind of weird and obscure. But in nineteen
eighty five, a little girl was an girl named Cinnamon Brown.
She was fourteen, killed her step mom at her father's behest,
then tried to overdose on sleeping pills, which her father
also told her to do.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
I totally remember this one.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
And the police found her unconscious in the doghouse outside
and arrested her, and she was ultimately released in nineteen
ninety two. Apparently the whole reason behind this was that
her dad was sleeping with his wife's younger sister, who
I think was pregnant with this child at the time. Evidently,
murder seem much more appealing than divorced. I totally remember
this story. That's fu she tried to overdose and was

(56:48):
sleeping in the doghouse.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
It was her stepmom or her real mom.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
It was her real mom, that's hid. Yeah, Oh no, no,
I'm sorry, it was her stepmom.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
It was her stepmom.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Yeah, it's like that's better, I know, I mean, it
is but it's so horrible.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
The idea that to make a child murder someone is
just you should.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Here's one more by Myra Judith Eva Barcie. She was
the voice of Ducky in the Land Before Time.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Totally remember that.

Speaker 4 (57:14):
Her catch RaSE a yep yep yet from that movie
is inscribed on her grave. Both her and her mother,
Maria Barci, were shot and killed by her father, Joseph
Barci in nineteen eighty eight.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
She was only ten years old.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
No oh, honey, sweet angel, shit, we'll take all the
kids that you're thinking about murdering a kid, We'll adopt
it for you.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Oh no, questions asked, well, and also, just what brand
of monster are you that you can kill a child?

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Here?

Speaker 3 (57:43):
It's just it's fascinating. It's cryptozoology. To me, It's like,
where are you? How did you get there? What the
fuck are you?

Speaker 4 (57:51):
I mean, as advanced as our brains are, the fact
that that can still be a thought that not even
just crosses our mind, but that you act out we're
supposed to be way, we're supposed to be evolved, the
way past that.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Yeah, it's not good.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
And no, I'm going to give up my address if
people want to drop off their kids at my house
instead of feeling them.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
What if I did that, that would be I would
edit it out and then we would have a long talk.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
No, I want to keep it in. No, you have
to let me.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
It's our first fight.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
It's my choice, Karen, Oh my god, we won't.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Let me include my address in the podcast.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Oh I could give up my PO box and people
want to send us shit, they can. Yeah, but that's
still scary. What if someone just waits at the PO
box to kill me?

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Hey, look.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
It's okay.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
No, I don't know what to say.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
I mean, it just immediately made me think of how
there's so many ways to find people online.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
And I just gave someone an idea. So if I
ever give my PO box out, they're like they got
the idea from me.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Every way you turn, there's danger.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Anxiety medications, try them.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
There's so many ways that you can help yourself.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
This podcast was brought to you by the Santax not meth.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
La michtal Micty and the makers of machetes.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
And therapists and and just talking about it because most
of the time that helps a lot.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Oh Man, talk about.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
It, talking about it, right, We're talking about how this
is therapy.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Sure it is for me?

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Yeah you too?

Speaker 1 (59:19):
All right, anything else?

Speaker 2 (59:20):
I think that's I think. I'm thoroughly depressed.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I'm thoroughly stoked.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
This was a good one. This was fun.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
I liked this one a lot.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
What should our next theme be? We should pick it
at the end of every episode.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Let's do the nineties.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Let's just go through the back, honestly, Yeah, let's do
the nineties, should we? Yeah? Okay, great? Because I found
a lot of good ones. And every time I saw
a year, which one was like, damn it.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
That actually happened to me too. It was always like,
either's the seventies or the nineties.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
When I was looking, okay, let's do the nineties this time,
and then maybe we can do the seventies next time.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
I wonder if there was, like in the nineties, there
was some Oh I was just gonna say, if there
was a rave murder or a Junko Jean's murder, and
we both know there was, well, yeah, there was that
amazing Michael is it Sellig murder? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
That was crazy. Party Monster is a good movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Party Monster is a great movie that's based on that.
I'm sure everyone has seen it's listening to this, but
oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
It's dark. I went to Raise and War drinkos.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
So dude, it's just once again it brings I hate
to be like, I don't want to sound like the
church later or anything, because I've done plenty of drugs
in my life, but they really are. No one talks
about how it's like, oh, pot is the gateway drug
to you know, harder drugs, but harder drugs are the
gateway drug to murder.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
They really are.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Yeah, I don't think I'm not going to say this
because it's not true, but no one's No one's fucking
killed anyone on pot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
That's not true at all. Yeah, I'm sure it's fun.
You know what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
It's like someone's car just strangely listed over into you know,
like a guy riding a bike or something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
It's just purely from being out of it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
Did you hear that they just pulled two cars from
like the fifties and sixties out of a lake and
the six people were found total and they were like
missing people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
No, and these are my favorite yeah all together.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
No, their cars were side by side, that they were
like years apart, that they just drove into this lake
and they've pulled these two cars out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
You can see the resting remains of these cars online.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Do you remember what city or what state?

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
I want to say Michigan, because everything happens in Michigan,
but that could be totally wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
It could be Ohio. Everything happens at Ohio everything.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Oh wait, which reminds me.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
This is my favorite thing I read on the Facebook page,
and so everyone else probably already read it, but I
just want to say this because it's so fucking awesome.
So there have been all these bodies washing up in
this small town in Ohio in the Rust Belts, and
there's a bunch of articles about it. There was a
guy who posted hometown murder because I think that's probably
where he's from, and then someone didn'nt update. Which is
an article from Jezebel about how a sex worker in

(01:01:42):
Las Vegas shot a guy that was trying to murder
her and she killed him. And it turned out he
had a full on murder kit in his car, He
had no money to pay her, he had bleach, he
had handcuffs, he had all this, all this stuff. There
was no way it was it before he had done it,
before he had told her he was going to jail
for a very long time right before he thought he

(01:02:02):
was going to kill her.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
And he had been a.

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
Security guarded Hoover Dam, which creeped me out for some
reason so badly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
It's because when people are in some kind of power
or authority, you trust them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Yeah, but they think that this guy might be connected
to those rest belt murders because he has been in
both places. They're like thinking that if he wasn't connected
to that, he's definitely killed people before.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
And so he grabbed his gun in some kind of tussle, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Yep, he was strangling her and she got his gun
away from him and shot him dead.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Good for her. Yeah, listen, if you're going to fight back,
you got to shoot to kill.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Do it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
He's going to kill you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
I think about that often, like if I had the
chance to, if I had that chance, I would shoot
someone in the fucking head. I wouldn't shoot them in
the leg and debilitate them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
Also, it would be very difficult if you were not
a trained professional to then be like here's how I'm
going to incapacitate this Person's like someone's trying to kill you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
You try to kill them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
That's just like, well, Karen, what do you have guten?
So don't if I can come after her? Apparently I
just learned that today.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Yeah, every podcast, I'm going to reveal a little bit more,
and then it's going to turn out that I too,
am a serial killer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Kill me? You know the safety that you just flip
flip the safety off?

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
What if in our hundredth episode you murder me?

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
I feel like it would be a great ending. I
don't see what the problem is.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
Let's say two hundred okay, okay or two fifty okay,
all right, we have to finish.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Thanks for listening, you guys, Facebook, Twitter, y, you know
where to find us. Thanks for being there, Thanks for listening.
Kay bye, Stay sexy, don't get murdered.