172 - I’m Fine, Look Away

Karen and Georgia cover the death of Joan Robinson Hill and the murder at Devil’s Teeth.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
That was a little double inside. Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
Oh so you didn't feel it coming up because you
opened your mouth.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
We just looked at each other as we do before
we start.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
Look, John and I have a moment of holy shit,
this is when's happened.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
That's what I do. This is huge, this is real.
This is the part where we have to podcast be
good at it.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Yeah, opened our mouths to speak at the same time,
and the weirdest sound came out of my fucking mouth.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
You call it a sound, others might call it a burp.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
It wasn't a verb.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
That was like a little bubble that like came It
was like a brave little bubble that came back up to.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Say I'm getting out of here. Oh wow, that was hilarious.
Excuse me.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
It looked like you were doing a bit of talking
but burping instead.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Awesome. Welcome to my favorite murder. It's a podcast. It's
a podcast. That's Karen, that's hard Star, and we are
your podcast hosts for the night. We're the hosts and
we're gonna lead you along the burpie way. These the
burpe is do it.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
I made a deadly mistake before, directly before we started
this is it.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
The pickles or the diet coke.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
It's the combination of the two, which that might be
the new flavor.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
We need to talk about Karen's adorable snack that she's
eating right now.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
That just like makes me so happy.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Like when people make a snack that's got like a
little bit of this and that on it, it's just
the best.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
So thank you, what a great compliment. This is a
stolen snack. So my friend Karen Anderson, who if you
want to listen to her podcast it's Dining with Doug
and Karen that she has with Doug Benson. Nice and
she's a big food of fishing auto, a foodie person
herself and a great cook. But this was a snack
she made up from when we worked together long ago.

(02:08):
And you can buy all of the ingredients of it
at Trader Joe's and what it is. So when the
next time you go to your Trader Joe's, get achmock
crackers ak m ak.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
They're the fucking hippie crackers that my mom's been buying.
They got the sesame on it. You know, you roll
your eyes at them when you see them. They're impossible
to close back.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Up yes, they still have the old school selofan only wrapper,
so you're on your own.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
But they're great.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
They're so good and sesame delicious. Then you get some
of the pepper jack cheese that they have sliced, not
the block no only, no pre sliced, don't be a
fucking sociopath.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
And a block of cheese. No, don't be crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
This is splurge on the pre slice because that actually
is a major element. Because see, when you get this,
it's a square of pre sist sliced, but when you
fold it in half, it becomes exactly the size of
an akmock cracker. Holy and shit, it's perfectly onto the cracker.
Then you have to go, oh, sorry, this is actually
it's we look today when Steven and I were at

(03:08):
Trader Joe's, but they didn't have the stackable pickles.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Usually you can get those flash sandway. I don't think
Trader Joe's fucks with that. Really.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
I feel like Trader Doos is like, look, we have spears,
we have whole and we have sliced.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and that's all we do. That's right. If you
want more, you know, go somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
It's amazing they haven't figured out how to steal the
sliced stackable pickles, because they steal every other good food
product that there is and make it their own. I
respect it anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
But so you have a fucking pickle on the side.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
You actually you should put it. When it's a stackable,
you can stack it on top. But now I have
a spear and creates insanity for Steph and I were
literally eating these over the sink because they were so damp.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Can I suggest a fucking squirt of yellow mustard on
that ship?

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Not to me?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Okay, then I won't.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
I don't like mustard, but yes to another person, they
might love that.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Have it a fucking smear, I'll hear me out.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
I hate the word doll ups. I'm not going to
say that, okay of apricot jam. So now now I
sound pregnant. No I'm not.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I'm not pregnant. But that's how we'll know.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well, you know what, it would be interesting to see
if people want to make this and try it out
and then go ahead and oh yeah, put your own
spin on it. Put your own spin, give give what's
your almost called you? Virginia. I'm not kidding what I don't.
It's the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of
the end for me. We all know it.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
It makes sense. Try Georgia's dollop of mustard plan. Go
ahead and give give Apricot jam a world. We want
to know your favorite cracker snack?

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yes, because all I want is mine originated from triuskets
and cheese, which is what my mother's mainstay through the seventies,
and then she went into a Wheatsworth area. But this
is the Trader Joe's new fangled version from Karen Anderson.
So give that a world. See if you like it,
and then see if you have anything to add.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
And it's all topped on a plate by our friend
Scarlett River, who's a really great artist on Instagram, on
a really cute Victorian looking plate.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
That says, by your own shit, get out of the forest,
Stan out of the forest. Oh actually it has get
a job, but it was covered by pickles. I didn't
see that.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
So that's what's going on at the exactly right studios.
Even you might want to take a picture of that
for later.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
That's right for the people Instagram, it'll be there. Yeah,
good stuff. Anyhow, that's there was This show started out
the fifteen minutes before this we started recording. It was
as if we were preparing for a belching contest with
the things that we've been doing.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
That's been snack corner. Yeah, that's the newest enjoy it?
Enjoy it or else?

Speaker 2 (05:43):
What ailse kind of corner?

Speaker 4 (05:44):
Well, let's see, can I let's do Marty corner real quick? Great,
So excuse me a couple of weeks. Okay, A couple
of stories about my dad. One is that he so
he's on the fan cult, in the fan cults, active
in the fan culture. He is on the chat message
boards and everything like that.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
He's out there ready to communicate. He's ready.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
And so we have someone who's now handling our fan
called and doing a great job of it.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
But he his name's Denton. He took the name, the
screen name dat Aino.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
On the fan cult, and my dad fucking texted me
and said, hey, who's dat Aina? Like he was mad
about it.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
So Denton changed his fucking name. Did Denton give him
dat Aino? I don't know if he gave it. I
don't know if he could take it, but it's now his.
That's hilarious.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
So recently my dad was we were having lunch, and
he said to me, you know, you know how because
he comes to a lot of shows, live shows. You
know how when I'm in the audience and you're saying
negative things about your mother and then you stop and
you know, tell me you're sorry in the show.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
You know. I just want you to know I don't
I don't mind when you talk about her on stage.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Like He's basically like, I would love for you to
talk shit about your mother in front of all of
these people.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Don't worry about me.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
I've been trying to get the one up on Jenet
for years and you're helping me.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, one we're thinking about my parents.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
I gave my mom, I got it special and exactly right,
our fucking podcast network. I got her a mug that
we have. It's like, I'm like, I've saved it and
I finally saw her and gave it to her. She
left it in Gelson's. So if you live in fucking
wherever the shit she lives, LA and find a fucking
exactly right mug with cold coffee in it.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
How shitty is that it's your daughter's company? Yeah, Like
I'm an entrepreneur.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
You are.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
It doesn't change that whether Janet has that mug and
on a little pit, a little podium in the middle
of her No, wouldn't be a podium. If she has
it on a little platform in her kitchen, who brings
them on to.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
A fucking grocery store.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Second question, Yeah, why wouldn't you just have Let's have
that be the travel mug. Do it, Janet? But she's
actually just kind of rolling out of the house still
holding the coffee mug that she started with that morning.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Maybe she was proud of me and was like doing
it with the thing out and like walking around with it,
but then she forgot it was there and walked away.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, because maybe because Gelson's now you have to talk about,
and if you don't live in Los Angeles, you might
not know.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Gilson's is a rich people grocery store, high end. There's
a wine bar in it.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
There's a wine bar, there's bac leava there, we'll all
in bucks, pucks, have some kind of station. Yeah, there's
all kinds of things to have. She might have just
got caught up in the lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I get it. Maybe hit that wine bar beforehand. She's like,
goat cheese bar. Yeah, throws down the mug. Shotters in
a million pieces. Goodbye, Okay, I feel better, run out.
What do you have? Let's see?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Oh we were going to recommend some podcasts, right, yeah,
that's things we've been listening to podcast corner. Okay, so
my podcast corner will switch it on over and I
don't tell me if I've well, I kind of don't
want to know if I've mentioned this already because it's horrifying.
But so they'll see the podcast I listened to the
last time I of home because and I've I've plugged
John Ronson's stuff before. He's one of my favorite writers.

(09:06):
He's a British journalist and he's an amazing investigative journalist,
investigative and he has a new podcast out called The
Last Days of August.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
So he had his.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Podcast before that was called The Butterfly Effect and it
was all about the porn industry and how it changed
after the digital takeover cool and he got to know
some people and he learned about this story about the
death of a porn star named august aimes w And.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
So this podcast is about that death essentially. And you
had to listen to the first one to like really
get into the second one.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
No, He makes it super He introduces it perfectly, basically
explains how he came up like stumbled upon the story,
and it is really it's not true crime in that way,
but it's an end depth investigative yes story, Yes, about
the kind of about the lifestyle, because that's like a
deep dive. You don't get no at all unless you're

(10:04):
talking about like real sex on HBO or right shit.
And I feel like that for a long time, it
was very important for people to kind of push that
idea that like, there are people in the sex industry
who are really into it and they wanted to be there,
and this wasn't this victimized state that a lot of
people were in, which is important for people to feel
empowered and to be like, no, fuck you, this is
my decision, which is a real thing. This is a

(10:27):
different story. So this is almost kind of like but
there are well you just listen to it, because I
better better to listen to it than have me describe it.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
It's just dark and deep and I'm fucking it. I'm there.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
He's just a very good journalist and what he makes
is important to hear. What's it called again, It's called
the Last Days of August and it's John Ronson's new podcast.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
I'm listening to it.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
Sweet, I'm listening to a couple of true crime ones,
as I always do, and then I'm also when I
need to not do that because it gets fucking dark sometimes.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Sure, I am listening to this.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
I listened to this podcast and have for so long
called be Wealthy and Smart, And it's okay. It's financial
guru Linda P. Jones, who's like she's there for it's
like it's cater towards women and women understanding you know,
everything about finances so that they can take a hold
of their fucking lives and like be in charge.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
So important, that's so important.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
She has a book that I'm reading called You're already
a wealth heiress. Now thing can act like one. It's
like ridiculous, but I fucking love it so much. What
am I the heiress of your wealth? You're the heiress
of the del Monte Pickle fortune. Congratulations?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
I just I like her message and it's you know,
and and the podcast is like anything. You just read
the titles of them and you'll find one that you
should listen to.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
And yes, it's like it's smart it's.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Very good and like a listenable because a lot of
times I think, or at least speaking for myself, it's
like a whole area that gives me like so much
anxiety just thinking about it, or yes, yea of like
things I've sucked up or immediately it just puts my
mind to where I've fucked things at. So it's really
good to listen to people who know what they're talking about,
basically telling you you can do this, Yeah, you can

(12:11):
figure this out and you can be in charge.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
She's really knowledgeable.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
And there's even stories about like financial abuse in relationships,
which like I didn't even know was a thing until
I listened to it.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
What is that like keeping money from people?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, yeah, to keep you in the relationship, weird ways
to control control you. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
So there's like kind of and then there's also like
how you know, six ways to pay off debt or whatever.
It's just like there's everything that's great, and so she
has these like little bits of knowledge that she fucking
imparts to you and it's it's just great.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Here's one of my ways. I got a Coal's card
last Christmas. I was at Coals.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
I was buying Nora a whole bunch of stuff because
the Coals is right, yeah, like right in town in Pedaluma.
And when I got up to the register, I may
have told the story, but the lady that worked there
was every everybody's mom from when I was eight years old,
so she already had a.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Power over me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
And she added up my stuff and looked and goes, girl,
if you get a Coals card, you'll get like two
hundred dollars off. And I was like, are you serious,
and she goes, oh, yeah, we're doing this thing. And
then she just basically made it. She made me do
it and made it happen and did it really quickly.
It was like she should be commended by the Cohles Corporation.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
That happened to me.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
But I was like twenty three and it was a
victorious secret card which I never shopped at, and I
was I just like, I.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Didn't get what was happening. Yeah, and then suddenly I
was I had my first credit card.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Did it go badly? No? No?

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Not.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
I never shot there again. Oh good, it's a terrible company.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
But I have such bad credit that any line of
credit they gave me, I can take that and use
it to fix.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
My credit totally.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
So even though cause I went to so I went
to my accountant and then she goes, I see you
got a coal's card. Very good move, because I thought
she would be like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Close that down? No, if you get approved for it,
fucking great.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Get approved and then buy things and then pay it
off in a timely manner.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
You can fix your own stuff. But guys, look, send
to Linda P. Jones before you do all this, because
it's strategic. You need to be strategic.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
And if you're scared about me, I know nothing scared
of If you're scared of it, knowledge is power.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
The more you know, the smarter decisions you'll make. That's right.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
And remember there's people that are in it every single day.
It's scary to you when it's this foreign land that
you know you don't know how to navigate in any way.
But there's people like Linda P. Jones who that's their
life and they can really give you advice of like,
oh no, this is the real, this is how it
actually is, separate from your fears.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
I learned to so much. I mean, I yeah, that's great.
I almost said I know everything. Three podcasts and I'm not.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
I'm so smart. Also, Okay, so let's do a fan
called corner. We just put up a Q and a
video that oh, yes, I really like it. It's super cute.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
And we the people who are now doing our website
with us and our fan cult with us, who we
love and our good friends, have these great ideas that
they're like helping us produce this stuff. So now it's
just like more, there's going to be more and more
of that of stuff.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
Because we can think of an idea and be like
can we do this, and they're like yeah, and then
in a month and be like here it is.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah, which is so rare and crazy. It's the best.
It's like yeah, and it's stuff that we like that's
good for us.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
So, Karen, I just thought of something. Our book comes
out in three fucking weeks?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Is that true? Yeah? Why didn't you tell me it'll
be eighteen days? I think as of tomorrow? What happens?
What if it's what if everyone is mad at.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Everyone's going to be mad and laugh at us at
the same time.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
What if that happened. We'll move to the beach, okay, Venice, Yeah,
We'll just then we'll get some of those.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
That's what those Southwest Gotta get away tickets are for.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
And you just who in there, get out of town.
We'll go back to Albuquerque. Remember how great it was there? Yeah,
I loved it there. It was really beautiful. So nice. Okay,
books coming out everyone.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
We wrote a book. And we didn't just write a book.
It's our it's a memoir. We fucking spilled some shit.
I told the story of getting my nippled for the
first time. Yeah, there's some really if you're looking for
the inside scoop, we basically scooped it all out and
poured it into this thing.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yes, or now it's essentially a blog, Yes it is.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
We should have asked for it to be a black
background with neon green writing and then like space stuff
on the.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Side and like weird words that are highlighted that you
can look up. No, it's great.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
Search for your name, it's going to be great. Oh
and like there's like fan art in it. Yes, it's
just so cool.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
They laid it out and designed it with you know,
or we did too.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
I mean we were part of it, assisted on having
fan listeners art in the books.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
And they made it happen and it looks great, and
there's also fun family photos. We have, like personal photos
of different points of our life.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's just like it's kind of amazing.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
If nothing else. I mean, it's heavy enough to be
a paperweight. And you can also donate it to your
local thrift store.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
You could also if you this summer, if you do,
if you and your friends do bonfires at the beach boom,
get like four of those on kindling kindling. If you're
against books or what we do, kindling kindling, get in there,
get a pop bellied stove for your cabin, and we're
just here to try to help you do whatever you want.

(17:18):
If you like it and you read it, then there's
gonna be an audio book.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
I mean, there's just like layer after layer. Why this happens, Oh,
turn the light off, that's why it's too bright in here. Okay,
that's right. Oh god, I know better. Now we're podcasting.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Now we're not in school anymore. Now we're out of
the fluorescence. So yeah, I get ready for the book thing.
We're talking to each other when I say that.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Stay sexy. Yeah, you get ready for it.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Get ready for it, for it?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Karen, should we start? No, I have a corrections corner,
even though it's a while ago. My correction.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Oh I said this on stage, Oh yeah, in the
Oklahoma City. But I feel like that it needs to
be to more people. Oh, by the way, we've i mean,
every weekend of this tour, and there's been plenty, has
been amazing and remarkable. But this last weekend, Oklahoma City
gave us an ovation. When we walked on stage, that

(18:16):
is the loudest thing I've ever heard in my life.
It was they brought the thunder in such a meaningful,
powerful way, and also it went on for a while. Yeah,
you guys are beautiful. Oklahoma City, thank you so much.
And they were so grateful that we came to It
was hilarious. They were the best, the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
I mean, it's just it's insane standing on stage and
being clapped up.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Yeah, just doesn't It's so hard to absorb and take in. Right,
It's insane and amazing, and I love it. I love it,
and I'm just also so fucking humbled by it. Yeah
and yeah, yeah, yeah, insane.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
We had a weekend of humbling shows and the ones
in Dallas and Houston were huge and beautiful, and we
just thank you. Guys so much again, and we know
we say it all the time, but thank you so
much for showing up and having the enthusiasm you do.
And and thank you to the person in Oklahoma City who
threw up in the audience. Oh two people threw up,

(19:14):
one in the balcony, one in the on the lower level.

Speaker 4 (19:16):
Right, which we were hoping was off the balcony, but
it wasn't, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
But we kept it inside the balcony.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
In the middle of our Oklahoma City show. It's quiet,
I think Karen's doing her murder and we just hear
out of the corner of our ears.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I saw, I had the visual. I didn't say, I
just heard it.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
The very angry and rightfully so very angry usher who
had to clean up this person's puke snapped, took out
a garbage plastic garbage bag and snapped it out three times,
like your mom when you haven't emptied the garbage. And
she just went to do it to prove a point
three times tilent theater because I was going to ignore it,
and I was like, Okay, something obviously happened, but because

(19:56):
one snap out of like I just need this thing
to be bigger, snapping at three times is.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Like, fuck you all. It was like you could practically
hear it. It was hilarious. We loved it. It was
really so you guys.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
They brought it. I mean they brought it in every way.
Everybody made it special in their own way. But on
that stage, I was just I brought up the fact
that I went into that thing where I was trying
to think of the word for an Elizabethan rough but
I was talking about the Renaissance and the restoration. I
went all all over the map. But lots of people

(20:29):
were like just tweeting me and going Elizabethan or I
was like.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, that's what it was. I should have been there
for that. How I don't know how.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
And the other one was there were some people who
misunderstood me. I think unless I misspoke. But when I
did the story I had, I tried to explain that
we were in Saint Louis, but I picked a story
that happened in Kansas City. That was the left of
her story that I did. That was the Hyatt Walkway
class right.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
You didn't think that it was in one city or another.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
I knew that I knew the collapse happened in Kansas
City at that Hyatt, but I was picking it because
we were in Saint Louis and it was in the
same state.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
But I got a couple of tweets.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
From people who are fired up of like, excuse me,
not happen in Kansas City, and I was like, yeah,
I know, but there's definitely a chance that I said
Saint Louis at some point.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
But that's not guys. We can't keep track of your
fucking college team rivalry. Okay. I mean, I know you
want to you want to do this place and gay
this place, but we don't understand meaningless and meaningless to us.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, but my problem is that I think because I
said I was picking this story for Saint Louis, people
are like, how dare you? But it's like, but they're
not thinking I was. I was being too inside my
own brain.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I get it though. Essentially I get it and.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
You'll get it.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
All that matters.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
It's all that matters. Oh wait, and sorry, one more's
fascy because we had another one of the ones, like
the woman who said my sister is dying in the
meet and greet. So the original was a woman who
right as we were getting our picture taken at the
meet and greet, the woman goes, my sister's dying, and
both of us turn out of the like during the picture,

(22:11):
turned towards her and are like, what's going on, and
then she goes, no, she's just so jealous that she's
not here, and we're like, you can't do that, Like
we screamed at her. It was hilarious, and of course
we all laughed like what the hell. So it happened
again in Dallas, right where the woman said I left

(22:31):
my husband. Right as we're taking pictures she said, I
left my husband. So of course we think, oh, it's
been an issue that's so strong, when you're so brave
or whatever, and we turned to get the story and
she goes at the bar across the street.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
And we're just like, please watch the phrasing. Get out
of here. We all laughed about that.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
It was so funny, pretty good, so many good moments
and those fucking being greets.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
It's truly overwhelming. It's so fun. And there are people
who are like, do you hate this?

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Is it to and we're just like, we fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
We must be tired.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
It's like, no, we have adrenalineto the fucking hill Yep.
We just had a show in front of fucking clapping
people who bar so much. We need to talk to
somebody about it. Vincent, Vince can't do it anymore.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, so thank you all everybody, and uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Good night, no, yes, yes, and so then Stephen Stephen
first tonight, all right, right then selling in so as
you've all probably.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Caught on, this is a story that was left over.
I had it for I think it was the Houston Show,
and then I switched my story at the last minute. Sorry,
I have to log back into my laptop.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
They can hear your password, do do deep, They can
tell what it is.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Can I tell it is?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Nope, it's like nope, not that I can't talk and
write it in at the same time.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Silent. This is a podcast.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Everyone shut up, Okay, I got it. Yeah, So basically
this meant I had homework already done when I got home,
which is just.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
A miracle, feeling, beautiful thing, truly the best.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
This is an oldie or older you know what it
felt like when we were there, it is. These are
those kinds of stories that have already been covered on
every twenty twenty, every date line, every you know, American
justice and whatever, because a lot of those stories are
rich people murdering each other, which is I am in

(24:28):
for one thousand percent do it?

Speaker 2 (24:30):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
It's like the world you can't be in any way. Yeah,
and then it does not mean you're happy just because
you're rich and you have everything. It actually usually means
bad things are going to happen, definitely, or at least
it seems like it seems.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
That case based on City Confidential, that is one hundred
percent true.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
As well as Dominic Dunn's power, privilege and justice.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
You know, we forgot to talk about what the Ted
Bundy movie. Did you watch it?

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:59):
I haven't watched it. Okay, let's wait till next week. Okay, Oh,
I swear i'll watch it.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
I'll have all kinds of opinions, right, okay, great. Can
you just give me one hint as to how my boy.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Did Zach Efron is great? Yes?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
He?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (25:12):
Am I right?

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Oh, if there's a if there's a discussion about the negativity,
it's not Zac Efron.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Hello, thank you, ky? Okay, Now he was great? Great?
I knew he would be. Did he get the Dead Eyes? Right? Oh? Yeah? Okay, good? Yeah?
I know he was good. Awesome.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
I can't wait to watch you know what, I will
watch it tonight. Okay, I have fuc swear, do you, Georgia,
I'll watch it tonight.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Swear me right, Aaron, I'll.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Swear to you with everything I have. Okay, So this
is the murder of Joan Robinson Hill. Okay, Joan Robinson
who later on Hill. She's born February sixth, nineteen thirty
one to an unmarried woman. So she's put up for
adoption because it's the thirties, God forbid. Yeah, those women
had to be disappeared, right. Oh God, I listened to

(25:58):
the most insane criminal episode about a woman who used
to go around trying to get white babies to adopt.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Have you ever heard that white babies were adopting other babies? Oh,
she was trying to get babies adopting babies. I can't
have the paperwork alone. We haven't an MTV reality show
about that yet. They're dirt biking and swearing, oh, getting
people to adopt white babies.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yes, there was there was a lot. Suddenly there was
no more stigma on adoption because for a long time
it was like, if it's not your real baby or
it's all that.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
It was although.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Craziness about adoption, and suddenly it was it became acceptable,
and then it was like you have to hear it,
it's is.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
It like, hey, you kind of don't want your baby,
give it to me, and then like right, adopting.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
That's how it started. This woman had it justified in
her mind. That's how it started. And then she would
go up and trick poor women into going, oh, your
baby sick. I'm a nurse and I.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Work for the hospital, and she would just steal their.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Babies, steal your It's a recent one on criminal Please
listen to it.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's the best. Why am I even talking about that? Oh?

Speaker 3 (27:05):
Because of this adoption thing. Okay, so she's put up
her adoption. A month later, a very successful Houston oilman
named Ash Robinson and his wife Rhea adopt her because
they can't have kids themselves. So she's the only child
of an oil magnate. Girl.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Get it, what does she have? Horses? Horses, horses, horses everywhere,
horses for days, and not those dumb plastic ones that.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
You had as a girl that I'd agree, and I
shouldn't say dumb, because they the one I got and
one I got it. I was just like it was
as if my parents gave me a real horse.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, those plastic horses. It was like, sure, one foot
was up, you put it up on the window sill.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Your golden trotting away to fucking childhood happiness.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
And then you get your period and it all ends okay. Anyhow,
she loves horses from when she's three years old, so
of course her father immediately buys her one. She starts
riding less at age three.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Holy shit, So she's.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
In it to win it, but she's a natural horsewoman.
She begins competing when she's seven years old, and between
nineteen thirty eight when she's seven and nineteen forty five
when she's fourteen, she places either first or second in
every competition she enters. So she's there was some amazing
quote about some like equestrian competition judge that had seen

(28:25):
her ride and had this big quote about how unbelievably
majestic and perfect she was as a writer. So after
high school, she attends Stephens College in Columbia, Missouri, and
Steven's College.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
The Fighting, the Pinocchio's Stephen's favorite Disney movie.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
That's right, Fighting, Why do they keep fighting each other
by those Pinocchio the swords of all that. Okay, so, uh,
she doesn't get greg grades, but she has a very
active social life.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
She's the perfect socialite.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
She's blonde like when in the pictures of her later
on in the fifties she has like little blonde bay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Women don't need good grades in the fifties. That's not
what they're there for.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
No.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
If you've got a rich dad and horses and you're
good at parties, you're set.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah. Good grades were just gravy. Good grades were for
like nerds.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Good grades will probably work against you in the socialite
scene in the fifth don't be.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Too smart, don't upset the man. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
So her parents while she's in college Lisa suite of
rooms in a hotel near the college, and then they
come and visit her regularly.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
So she's clearly the apple of their eye. When she's
in college, she gets married and divorced a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
A couple times, damn girl.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah, okauy, she's out socializing and it's the fifties, you.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Know, and you're like, hey, do you want to go
get coffee and get married real quick?

Speaker 3 (29:49):
Yeah, well, it's probably like, hey, we should have sex,
but we can't, so we better get married. Yeah. So
first it was a man named Spike Benton, who is
a Navy pilot. And then she got married to a
man named Cecil Berglass who was a New Orleans lawyer,
and he was a childhood friend and ashe disapproved of

(30:09):
both men and neither marriage lasts more than six months.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Corse, Spike and Cecil. Yeah, so I think she was
probably like, I do it.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
I want daddy, and she goes and gets married to whoever,
and then she's.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Like this sucks. I want my horses and my dad back. Okay.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
But then on September twenty eighth, nineteen fifty seven, so
this is obviously when she's out of college. I would
think if anybody's you do hope the year's math, you know,
fifty seven.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Twenty four.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yes, yeah, unless she her grades are really bad, she
should be out of college. Now she gets married to
a man named doctor John Hill, and he is one
of Houston's top plastic surgeons. Ooh, plastic surgery in the fifties.
In the late fifties bought that shit. That's when they
were like, here's the plastic surgery, Percy. We're going to
do for your nose job. I'm going to hit you
with this hammer. Stay still, ma'am, ma'am. See what we

(31:06):
do is put chip clips on the side of your
face and pull it back as tight as we can
and then just staple it there. You got your face lit,
then we staple it. We'll give you a couple of
shots of nova came in that skin, and you're on
your own.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Good night.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
So he was he was not just a plastic surgeon.
He was an avid, very talented piano player.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Sure. So the first six years.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Of their marriage nineteen fifty seven and nineteen sixty three,
they lived on Joan's parents property. They lived at near
Ash's house basically, and they were a huge part of
the Houston social scene. But otherwise they live pretty separate lives.
Joan is all still all about her horseback riding, and
John is focusing on, obviously his medical practice and his

(31:52):
piano playing and his music in general, and his chip clips,
and he's figuring out smaller and better chip clips to
clip onto the back of women's scalps. So on June fourteenth,
nineteen sixty Joan gives birth to their son, Robert Ashton,
nicknamed boot Hill.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Boot Hill named.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
After the famous Western cemetery. You know, fun stuff for
kiss cute. Joan tells her father that she wants to
breed horses and start a riding school. So she says that,
so he buys her a farm that they call Chatsworth Farm.
It opens in nineteen sixty three and it becomes a
site for an annual picnic that the Hills host. So

(32:32):
you can feel this like, yeah, oil money, well force
people's social wealth, wealth, well wealth, generational wealth.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
That's right, old money. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Nineteen sixty five, John and Joan finally buy their own
house at fifteen sixty one Kirby Drive, but it's just
down the street from Joan's parents' house, so in Law City,
Joan tells John tells Joan that he wants to turn
one of the rooms of this new house into into
a music room for himself, and.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
So he asks Jones father.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
He asks Ash for ten thousand dollars to build it,
but Ash thinks that's a stupid idea and it refuses
to give him. I have to agree with Ash, right,
build it yourself. Ten thousand dollars back then, is how
much back then, I would say easily seventy grand, yeah,
if not more more well seven hundred grand, well yeah,

(33:26):
I guess it would be up in maybe two hundred grand.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, let's go two hundred.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Let's go too, let's let's meet in the middle at too.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
A lot of money.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
But you have to imagine though, doctor John Hill, one
of the leading plastic surgeon hammer wielders of the Houston area,
he's watching her by horses left, right and center and
open a farm. So he's like, how about me and
my passions and I want kind of thing. Yeah, I
want a thing too, And it doesn't really work that way.
I feel like with rich people you got to bring

(33:54):
bring that wealth wish. Sure, borrowing doesn't sit well with
self made men well.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Horse farm or whatever the fuck it is, who's about
to make a lot of money right because they like
have it's like a business, yes, but like fucking putting
a drum kit and a piano in your fucking basement.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
But it's not going to bring in the buck.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
No, that's that's mostly for like, I just want you
to have great weekends, yeah, I just want you to
feel fulfilled.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
That's a vintage man cave. Yes, it is. I am
so angry at the story for making me say man cave,
so never forgive it. Never.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Okay, you know he gets the big no. So John
goes and gets a loan from a bank. Oh wait, sorry.
One of the other reasons that Ash did said no
was because he lent them part of the money to
buy this house in the first place.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
So you know, you're already not that.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Into borrowing, and this guy's coming back for more. So
I'm sure Ash Robinson was just like, get out of here. Yeah,
make your own money, plastic surgeon. So John gets a
loan from the bank and then commissions someone to build
the music room for him, and he quickly exceeds that
ten thousand dollars budget and he spends around seventy.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Five thousand holy shit in that days.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
I mean, in today's money, ten thousand dollars is too
much for a music room, yes.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
And then and then if you do math, well.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Well you're going half a million dollars probably right to
add a music room onto your house.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Don't do that.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
When they finally finished the room in nineteen sixty nine,
he had spent roughly oh here we go, one hundred
thousand dollars on that music room, which is the equivalent
of a seven hundred thousand dollars today. Almost he was
closer to a million Dollarsly.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Shit, Linda P. Jones would be very against that.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
She would not like, that's not what will harrises do. No,
it's not hail no, okay. So around the same time
in nineteen sixty eight, John N. Jones marriage is on
the rocks, partly because of the music room thing. That'd
be funny if Jones like, I hate music of all kinds,

(35:54):
but also because it seems Joan feels like that the
music room and the project and that whole thing is
all he cares about, which isn't entirely true, because what
John also cared about was the woman he had started
to have an affair with named Anne Kurth, who he
had met picking up his kids at summer camp when
she was picking up her kids at summer camp guys,

(36:17):
and they had a cheaters meet cute at summer camp
parking lot in August of nineteen sixty eight.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Controller fucking urges people.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
I mean, if you can't control his music, man cave verge,
then he's like out, He's just doing it.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
That fall, Joan goes away for a horse riding competition,
and when she comes back, she finds a note from
John saying he's left because things are quote not good
between us.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
So she get to decide that motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yeah, that's all on him. Oh, also it was it
was on a notepad with music.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Notes of the time.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Sorry, I just saw it in my mind's eye, and
it's and here's a note in quotes from John.

Speaker 4 (36:58):
Oh my god. Then always a fucking what's a What's
a note? Some kind of a quarter note? Maybe a
quarter half?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Those are the only two kind of notes I know. Great,
at least you knew one. I played cello and I
didn't even.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Know what mm mmmm did you get an actual song
out on that cello?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Could could you play a song? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (37:20):
You know, like it was like that, but it sounded
kind of sounded like a song.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
It's a hard instrument for how were you? You were eight?

Speaker 4 (37:30):
I was like eight and probably like severely underweight, so
like a teeny tiny person.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Okay, sorry, it's not about me, it is though, Okay.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
So uh So, basically, Joan calls John's office to say
where is he? Like, I'm trying to figure out, like
we at least have to talk about it. He's not there,
so her father, Ash suggests hiring a detective to track him.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Down, but Joan doesn't do that. Yeah him.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Two weeks later, John contacts Joan again again after the
music note he has to meet up with her, and
then he tells her about the affair that he has,
saying that he's been staying with Anne. So this woman
his mistress. He's basically been at her house the whole time,
that dick.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
So, in November of nineteen sixty eight, John serves Joan
with divorce papers, but both and I had to read
this sentence like three times. Both Joan and Ash still
want the marriage to work. The wife and her father
really want the marriage to work.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Because it'll tarnish your reputation, probably right, But also it
doesn't work.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
If your dad has that much of an opinion, then
you're part of the problem. Like you have to admit
there's a reason this guy wants to get away, and
also just it has to be the two people in
the marriage that want it to work.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
That's the most that's the best case scenario.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah, that's what you should be aiming. For I mean, dad,
thanks for the support, Please get out of the marriage.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
So in early just number nineteen sixty eight, Ash asks
to meet with John Hell and at the meeting, he
says that if John doesn't make the marriage work, that'll
come after him and force him to repay all the
money that John still owes him.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
So John withdraws the divorce petition, returns to Joan, and
the two make up just before Christmas that year.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
How awkward would that be?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Oh, your dad told me that you didn't owe him
money if I didn't love you anymore. Yeah, your dad said,
I can't leave, so I'm back. Great merry Christmas. Let's
put your sweater on, put.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Your matching sweater on. Let's do this. Oh horrifying, horrifying.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Okay, So and the height of romance. Yeah, of course,
Anne Kurth comes back into the picture and she basically
tells John it's her or me. But despite that, what
John does is he stays with Joan, but he keeps
a separate apartment of course, and like and him and Ant,
he basically just keeps the place that they were staying.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Shocking, absolutely no one.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah right right, So then Joan I wish their names
weren't Jan and John. It's making it harder. Really needs
to be talking with you. So Joan notices John's been
spending a lot of evenings away, and she finally calls
him out on it. So it starts a fight, and
the next day, as John's taking their son to get
a haircut, he stops by the apartment to pick up

(40:21):
a couple things and brings the sun with him. Come
on right, So then, of course their son tells his mother, Yeah, yeah,
dad still has a secret apartment or whatever you name.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
I'm five, Hey, Dad's got this mistress.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
I know you're gonna be upset, So I'm gonna be
the one that stays calm. Dad's still got that apartment. No, no, no,
Daddy's still got that Daddy, Daddie. Of course, Jon's livid
and sadly surprised. So in early March of nineteen sixty nine,
the Hills have HouseGuests over. They're friends of Jones named

(40:56):
Diane set Aghast, and then a second woman named Eunice
Wool who is not listed as jones friend. So who
knows why Unie is there?

Speaker 2 (41:04):
What are you doing there? Uniee U niece?

Speaker 3 (41:07):
It feels like you're there to judge people. But maybe
that's just because of your name. Unie Woolen, So, Diana
and Eunice noticed that John keeps getting called away by
a pager.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Wait in the sixties, it's nineteen sixty nine. What kind
of a page or is it huge size of the room.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
It's yeah, it's basically that. It's what the pants he's
wearing are the pager. It's full body pager.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Got it.

Speaker 3 (41:31):
I don't know, I guest, Yeah, I guess doctors have
always had them. Paging is probably a phone call. Yeah,
that's probably what it means. You're being paid. You're being
paid on a paging service.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
That's what it is. That would make way more.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Sense, though, if you have pictures of old fashioned pagers
that are really big.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
We'd love to see that. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
So he keeps getting called away, being paged away, and
then when he comes back, he comes back in the evening,
and he always brings pastries, but he's very specific about
how he hands these pastries out.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
What the fuck?

Speaker 3 (42:04):
So he gives them out. I brought these amazing. Does
anybody want them? You should have them, You should have this,
and you should have this. No, no, no, don't flitch,
don't switch you eat that.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
I want the cheese Danish?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Nope, nope, sorry, Unie, but you weren't even really invited here.
We don't know whose friend you are. You don't get
the cheese, dammit. So he's very controlling and specific about
these pastries.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
On March fourteenth, nineteen sixty nine, during the stay with
Diana and Eunice, Joan invites a fourth woman over. Her
name is Van Maxwell, and they all want to play bridge,
so she invites Van over to the house and the
four gate play a game of bridge on one end
of the music room while john sits listening to music
on the other end. And it's super awkward and it

(42:48):
weards all the women out, isn't it weird?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Like when you're having like girlfriends over and then the
husband comes home or you're at your friend's house and
then it's like, no, it's fine, he's cool with it.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Yeah, Like I don't want to be here anymore, right,
I know he's in the bedroom, but like this is creepy.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Well yeah, because it then it just feels like there's
someone waiting for you to leave totally, and which is
we've all done that where it just like the countdown begins, like, oh,
I can't wait to have my house back.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, yeah, so and.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Maybe they were just trying to make the most of
this insanely expensive music room. I don't know, but all
those women had felt and sensed the super weirdness. Joan
dishes to Van about the fights that she's been having
with John, and she tells Van that she's going to
get a lawyer and cut him out of her will.

(43:35):
And towards the ends of the evening, John puts on
a romantic record and then walks over and stands behind
his wife's chair. And so then Diane suggests that they
dance together, which they do, and then before everyone goes
to bed, at the end of the evening, I'll watch
this weird couple dance apparently very presentationally. So then the
next morning, March fifteenth, nineteen sixty nine, Joan or not morning,

(43:57):
it's the afternoon. Joan wakes up really late in the
afternoon and she tells her friends so like she has
friends there and she doesn't wake up until later, not good,
and she says John gave her some pill that must
have knocked her out, because.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
She like couldn't come.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
She couldn't wake up, but she says that the night
before John had made her quote very happy, and that
things he had said things to her she'd never heard
him say before. Wow, And she said, she feels like
they're going to be fine. Ah fuck you yeah, feeling
I'm getting that presentation feeling.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, some people like to do, getting that poison feeling.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
So the next day, Joan gets sick. She vomits like
after breakfast, can't stop vomiting, so she spends all the
day in bed and John tends to her, brings her medicine.
She stays upstairs while John like basically entertains the guests
on Monday, March seventeenth, Diane and Eunice and their visit.

(44:57):
Did I say Eunice before? It's Unice or Eunice Unice? Okay,
Unice Woolen. So don't they leave because it's like Monday,
like the trip's over, But Joan's still up in bed
and sick when they leave, So John tells their housemaid,
Effie Green, that Joan is not to be disturbed.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
While she's recovering from her illness.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Now, are you familiar with the film Reversal of Fortune? No, Okay,
that's the story of Sonny and Klaus von Bulou and
the very mysterious way that Sonny van Bulo died, and
it is it's like exact replica of this story in
this part which I'm blown away by, hey, which is

(45:38):
what it's the fact that there's somebody that's sick in
bed and the husband.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Says, leave her alone, leave her by herself, kind of.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
I mean, it seems like an understandable if it's not
out of the question, if the person's not murdering that, Like,
don't she wants to be left alone?

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Sure, Yeah, she's sick.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
And wants to be left alone.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Yeah, but this is day two of this sickness where
it's like almost like food voicing.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
There's a ton of vomiting.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Yeah, Well, and the other in Reversal Fortune, which if
you haven't seen that movie, it's great, Glenn Close, Jeremy Irons,
it's nuts and it's a true story.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
It's true crime.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
It's one of my favorite movies doing it. Okay, So
the next day, March eighteenth, Effie disobeys John's orders, and
when he leaves for work for that day, she goes
upstairs to check on Joan and she finds Joan lying
in a feece's soaked nightcare. So yeah, and she's been
sitting in her own filth for a while.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
So Effie helps her to the bathroom to clean herself
up to get some fresh clothes. But while they're in there,
and while Effie's changing her, she notices that Joan's face
starts to turn blue. So she calls Joan's parents and John,
but nobody answers. No one's home, so then the mother,
Rhea just drops by. She doesn't even know that Joan

(46:57):
is sick, she's just dropping by to say hi.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
From up the street.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
She sees Joan in the condition that she's in and
John while the while there, while Rihea's freaking out about
her daughter, John comes home from work, so they decide
that they.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Need to take John to the hospital. That it's that
it's gotten that bad.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
So instead of calling an ambulance, John insists upon driving himself,
and instead of going to the one of the bigger,
more well respected hospitals in the area, he takes her
on a forty five minute drive to Sharpstown General, which
is a new hospital that they built. Obviously, forty five
minutes away with no er and no ICU.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
The fuck John?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Yeah, cool, well, and he would know, right because he's
the doctor and the postal surgeon, so he knows exactly
what hospitals are set up for what totally and how
insane would that be? Where he's like, I insist upon
taking her, and then like later on you find out
she just drove away and drove you know, far away,
so crazy. So at the hospital when she finally gets there,
her condition quickly worsens. The doctor switches from things that

(48:00):
she has the flu to thinking she's in septic shock.
Six hours after checking into the hospital, her kidneys fail.
They don't have a dialysis machine because it's the shadyier hospital.
Joan's too sick to transport to a different hospital. They
decide to begin periitonal or paratonial dialysis. They need John's

(48:23):
permission to perform it because she's not conscious. He had
gone back home and so the doctor calls the house
at nine fifteen PM and tells him to come back
to the hospital. John leaves right away, quote unquote, but
doesn't arrive to the hospital until eleven PM.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
What the fuck got a dick?

Speaker 3 (48:42):
So by twelve thirty that March nineteenth, nineteen sixty nine.
They have Joan stabilized, but she isn't improving, and then
her heart fails and at two thirty in the morning,
she dies of this sickness. So Texas state law at
the time says that anyone who dies within twenty four
hours of being admitted to a hospital has to undergo
an autopsy before being embalmed or buried. That's a good rule,

(49:06):
it is a good role. But John has Joan taken
to a funeral home before anyone has a chance to
perform an autopsy within four.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Hours of her death. Na dude.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
He rushes that body over to the funeral home. Then
she's embalmed within an hour of arriving at the funeral home.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
In fact, he fast tracked it.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
So then a doctor shows up at the funeral home
to do the autopsy anyway, and he notices there's a
maroon discoloration on her pancreas, and he determines she died
from pancreatitis. Ash gets other doctor's opinions. They all say
it's an unlikely cause of death, especially for what she

(49:45):
had gone through. On the morning of her funeral March
twenty first, nineteen sixty nine. Ash goes to the assistant
DA and his name's I D. McMaster, and he accuses
John Hill of killing his daughter. So another comes to
perform a second autopsy right before jones burial, and he
determines the cause of death to be a cute local

(50:07):
hepatitis which was probably viral. But when Midmaster reads this report,
he tells Ash there's no cause. That Ash doesn't give up.
He goes to yet another DA and petitions John to
exsume Joan's body for a third autopsy, but of course
John refuses, so Ash calls on a doctor from New

(50:29):
York to help. And because Harris County Grand Jury is
also investigating Jones's death because it's all so suspicious and
because Ash Robinson has juice, I mean like he these
are all the people that like it's rich people, and
that's all those connections where he's like, I'm not letting
it go, and that means you're not letting it go.
So a third autopsy is granted, and this time a

(50:50):
far more thorough examination is done of the body, and
they determined there was a massive infection, but they can't
determine the source. They do, however, conclude that John had
gotten Joan. If John had gotten Joan, did the doctor quicker?

Speaker 2 (51:03):
She would have lived.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Fuck So, three months after Jones's death, John Hill marries
An Kurt in June of nineteen sixty nine, three months
so now Ash Robinson is convinced that John Hill murdered
his daughter, and the marriage between John and Kirth lasts

(51:25):
less than a year.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
What yeah, So.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Then in April of nineteen seventy a grand jury votes
to indict John Hill on murder by omission, which means
his lack of action led to Jones's death. It's the
only one they can prove, but they know that happened.
So his trial begins on February fifteenth, nineteen seventy one,
and Kurth They call her to testify against John, but

(51:49):
she goes totally rogue on the stand and instead of
just answering the questions that the guys at the prosecutors
asking her on the stand, she claims John had tried
to kill her on June thirtieth, nineteen sixty nine, by
crashing the car into a bridge and then injecting her
with a hypodermic syringe. She also says that John confessed
to her that he killed Joan by lacing her pastries

(52:12):
with infectious bacteria. Why and injecting her with the bacteria
as well?

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Holy shit? But this they're like boom that. It's like
the judge's going, what, no, you know order or exactly.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
People go fucking berserk and they declare a mistrial because
she says all this stuff on the.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Stand, Why did he really do that? Hearsay that's fucking
diabolic hall It.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Is so disgusting, and it's like, I'm not using this
word right.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
It's smart because you're not poisoning them exactly, it's not traceable.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
It's it's it clearly reflects that a doctor was doing
the murdering, because a doctor knows what it looks like
when someone dies in non suspicious circumstances.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
And that was.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
But but that's the funny thing about the psychopath, the
sociopath when they think they're smarter than everybody and they
don't think it's weird that they go, no, you eat
the cheese Danish.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Whereas, of course, like no, I don't want an autopsy.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Eunice Woolen is like, I'm going to write that in
at the top of my diary entree tonight lunatic because
you don't get subtleties. Okay, So they schedule a second
trial for November of nineteen seventy two, because it's like
order in the court, start over, clear the cord, everybody,
erase your memory. But a few weeks before the second

(53:31):
trial is set to start, on September twenty fourth, nineteen
seventy two, a masked intruder breaks into John Hill's home
and shoots him dead.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
Wait, okay, hold up now, so he got sent home
in between trials, yes, and so someone came in and
fucking killed him. And his name is Ash, A masked robber,
a mass robber. I'm doing air quotes at Georgia right now.
A masked robber came in and shot him to death.
In April of nineteen seventy three, that gunman is finally
identified as Bobby Wayne van Derver, and he's arrested. So eventually,

(54:06):
Vanderver tells police that he was paid five thousand dollars
to kill John Hill, and he implicates two people. Their
names are Marsha McKittrick and Lilli Apaulis, and he says
they're the accomplices. Vanderver's indicted for murder, and his trial
is set for September of nineteen seventy three, and then
it's rescheduled to April nineteen seventy four, but he doesn't

(54:30):
show up for it. Instead, he just up and moves
to Longview, Texas.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Why aren't these people in fucking jail while they were
awaiting trial? I don't know. They must have posted bail.

Speaker 3 (54:40):
I think it's because they're rich, and so that's the
rich people do not wait in jail during trial. They
get to go home. They have their fancy lawyers argue
for them and get them out on bail.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Bull shit.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Well, this guy jumps bail, moves out of town. He's
living in an alias under an alias in Longview, Texas,
and when police officer Longview police officer John Raymer finds him,
Vanderver pulls his gun on the police officer, and Raymer
shoots first and kills Vanderver.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
So the police officer killed the guy.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
The murderer, basically the gunman. The hired gunman is now
murdered by a police officer. Marcia McKittrick, the getaway driver.
Vanderver's getaway driver is convicted in nineteen seventy four she's
sentenced to ten years, she's paroled after five and then
Paulis Lilliapoulis, the other accomplice, is convicted and given thirty

(55:38):
five years, and she dies in prison of breast cancer
in nineteen eighty six. And everybody basically in Texas knows
for a fact that Ash Robinson is the man who
hired Vandiver to kill doctor John Hill, but they.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Cannot prove it. And everybody around it is dead. Wow,
they could never prove No. Oh, because the one guy's dead,
he can't justify against him exactly. He can't spill the beans.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
There there isn't there aren't the people, basically the surrounding.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
People like, yeah, there's no trail. No, there's no one else.
No one were to check memo I did ex son
in law.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
No, there's no more pastries to be to be handed out.
So that basically it's just kind of like this got this,
got taken care of it. I'm sure a lot of
people even if they knew the details. Yeah, doctor John
Hill is absolutely a creep villain in this story. Yeah,
and there's lots there's so many good articles about how

(56:37):
creepy he was. There's all these like stories about how
creepy he was.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
And I like to see a photo of these people.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
Well, yes, they look like classic fifties people like he
looks almost like Rod Sterling, plain, good looking, standard doctor
in the well dressed. And she looks like she looks like, uh,
she looks like a class She almost like Sandrad sand O'Connor.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
She looks like are you trying to say Doris Day?
Doris Day? She looks like Doris Day, but younger and
like a little more platform photos up on our Instagram.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
There have been several books written about this story. Thomas
Thompson wrote a book in nineteen seventy six called Blood
and Money, but there was also a nineteen eighty one
made for TV movie, And these are.

Speaker 5 (57:21):
The pictures you have to see te eighty one Fair
Time Time Boss plays Joan and Sam Elliott with no mustache.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Oh my god, Young Sam Elliott, Young Sam Elliott with
no mustache plays doctor Hill, can't picture him? And Andy
Griffith plays Ash Robins. Yes, I love it.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Who plays the the Unice Woolen?

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:47):
What if Eunice played the mistress in the movie Made
for TV movie the real woman played the No, those
are the only three.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I know, but I did.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
When I was prepping this for Jay was sending me
all these pictures from that. Yes, look, oh yeah, doesn't
Fara Fawcett look like Sharon Stone And.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
I'm like, god, gorgeous. And then look at Sam Shepherd,
He's so cute.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
No, Sam Elliott, that's what I met. Sam Shepherd is
a doctor who murdered his family.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
Great, there's also Sam Shepherd, the playwright who's a great actor.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Totally what I meant. Yes, we'll put it up on
my favorite murder Instagram. Also, I just want to watch it.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I couldn't find it anywhere to watch it, but I
want to watch that nineteen eighty one too.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Retelling this story someone listening this always happens. They're like
their moms save their.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
Vhs fucking recorded coffee and they send it to us
and it's the best thing that's ever happened.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
So, if you have Murder in Texas from nineteen eighty one,
starring Farah Fawcett and Sam Elliott with no mustache, can
you please.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Send it to us and a VCR. Oh yeah, so
that's the VCR.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Like how me and my sister used to have to
rent a VCR if we rented video too.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
That's right, And.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
That is the mysterious yet very solved murder of Joan
Robinson Hill amazing. Yeah, all right, So this one I
heard about a while ago. Our friend Kat Solan told
me about it, and I have ever since been fascinated
with it. This is the murder at Devil's Teeth.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
What do you know that?

Speaker 1 (59:20):
No?

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I don't think so, all right.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Got a bunch of infro from There's a website called
your Tango and someone named Amy Lamar just posted an
article about this murder pedia webs loose but weird, Njay weird.
New Jersey is like the people who know the most
about this. Yes, And in nineteen ninety eight, they got
a letter from a guy named Billy Martin asking about

(59:43):
an urban legend, because that's kind of what they do.
They talk about the weird, crazy, cool shit happening in
New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Awesome. This guy's like, I bet there's a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
This guy's like, hey, I remember this urban legend from
when I was a kid, involving a dog bringing a
body part home to his master in Springfield the seventies.
What is this fucking true? So they start looking into it,
and it leads them. It's Jesse Polack and Mark Moran
writing death on the Devil's teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Okay, and it's a story about this murder. Okay, okay,
this murder in dirty jeers. That's right, okay, all right.
August seventh, nineteen seventy two. Here we are.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Sixteen year old Jeanette to Palma was about to enter
her junior year of high school in Springfield, New Jersey.
On that day, August seventh, she tells her mother she
was planning to take the train to a friend's house.
She never arrives. Classic fucking story. We've heard it a
million times. It sucks when she fails to return home
that evening, her parents file a missing person's report. And oh,

(01:00:43):
by the way, is this takes place ten months and
one town over from the list family Familia side case.
Ten months after, ten months after, like same area and
a town over. Yeah, so it's like time and place
here we are.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Should we talk about home all real quick? Should we
talk about it? It's not in Philadil. We don't talk
about the Cherry Hill, mam. Don't talk about the Cherry
Hill mall anymore? Know that Karen Wow, okay, so this
is there's a there's a real devil power center happening already,
that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
So she goes missing, and six weeks later, on September nineteenth,
nineteen seventy two, a dog brings its owner a fucking
human forearm with a hand.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Attached, so that it was not an urban legend. No, oh, fuck,
bad bad boy.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
You traumatize me for years. I will never whatever song
is playing right now, I'll never be able to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah, that's right, just yelling at this dog on the corner.
Oh there, did I sorry? Sidebar, did I ever tell
you about that? My dad had to get a job.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
At my uncle Steve's pizza place when he would know
when he first was married and my sister I think
I was just born and my sister was too or whatever,
and he was first I think in the fire apartment
maybe hadn't gotten in yet, and my uncle Steve had
just bought a Shaky's Pizza yea. And so my dad
just worked there and like, sure, I'll do it. And

(01:02:08):
he he said he worked there it was really hard,
like it was just a really standard job, and he
was worried about money all the time. And it was
just kind of like making pizzas and he worked with
this like young Stoner Kid who played Credence Clearwater Revival NonStop.
And my dad literally can't have it on the radio,
Like if you're in the car and it comes on,

(01:02:29):
he has to turn it immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Any Credence.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
It has destroyed my dad, like it puts him back
to the time where he thought there was no hope,
no future.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Oh god, that's so sad.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
I know it's not funny the same thing, but I was.
I had a roommate who would just play moon Dance
on the guitar. Was anything else in shadow?

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Yes, I'm being.

Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
It makes you think of this sad time in my
life when I was twenty seven and was like, what
am I going to do? It's six hundred dollars or
just too much for rent a month. I don't know
how I'm gonna pay this. I hate my roommate. She's
a coquetta.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Okay, what what? Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
If you like a song and something bad starts happening,
turn that turn it off really quick. Make sure protect
your assets.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Okay, So where were we? Human forearm in hand horrifying.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
It's brought yes, This of course leads to the discovery
of Jeanette's remains.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Oh, I know, poor sweet, she's like so beautiful too
a post a photo.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
She's just like not that it fucking makes a difference, which,
you know, she's this beautiful, lovely, normal sixteen year old.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
And sorry, who did the dog bring it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
The arm to his owner? What was it?

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
It wasn't a child?

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
No, there was like an apartment building right behind where
she was found in the woods. Okay, the dog was
like doing dog nineteen seventy two dog stuff, which is
like go in the woods, comes back to his owner's apartment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Oh, just everybody everything, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
So they lead they leads to the discovery of Jeanette's remains.
It's high on a cliff inside of Springfield's abandoned. It's
Hoedale quarry. So it's a quarry. M It's like, what
is that? Like a foresty ravine type of situation.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Yeah, And the corey usually is like a big dugout
thing that sometimes has water in it if like they
if they if they're not using it anymore, but like
you know, or just a big gravel pit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
Basically they've dug out for rocks.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Great, it's abandoned. Okay, there's cliffs. It's outdoorsy, Okay, the cliff.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
There's a very few indoor quarries.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
That I know of.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
But again, you remember what I did about the Cherry
Hill mall.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
So it's wild. It's wild and run and wild.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
And the cliff is named Devil's Teeth because the jagged
rocks around it. So it's like way up high and
there's these jagged rocks. From what it sounds like teenagers
would hang out there. Hell yeah, and drink and shit.
But I'm not totally sure. There's not like a there's
not a ton of confirmed information about this one, Okay,
so I'm gonna.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Just uh speculate, well, spec the way we do. You know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
So the spot where Janet is found it's so hard
to reach that. To retrieve her body, the police had
to call on a fire truck with a ladder.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
To get her down.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
Her autopsy doesn't reveal a cause of death because of decomposition,
but there's no signs of trauma. The corner didn't find
any trace of alcohol or drugs in her body, but
the toxicology report did show an unusually high level of lead,
which is never fucking explained and super weird. Oh and
I'll tell you later about how I looked into.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
That her body's fully clothed.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
And when it was found and the corner ruled her
cause of death as unknown but suggested strangulation as a possibility.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I think that's what he suspected.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
Early in the investigation, the Springfield Police Department, there's like
a tip regarding a homeless man living in the woods nearby,
a man known as Red. But he's quickly eliminated as
a suspect, and basically it sounds like he was the
only person who really.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Seemed like a suspect.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
So this is rumors begin to spread in town. And
you know how fucking towns like to spread rumors. Hell,
we talk, it's like what they do, it's what they're for.
And it's nineteen seventy two. So guess what those rumors
are about?

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
The Fleetwood mac Oh, sorry, you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
The cult. That's just a small subset of the cult.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
So so rumors begin to spread that Jeanette's body is
laid out in a way that suggests satany shit, which
is like, dude, in the seventies and then especially the eighties,
it's ramping up to fucking Satanic panic, yes, and these
you know, it's these it's these towns where people are
super religious. That's like what their fucking lives revolve around

(01:06:43):
is church in the community and the idea of Satan
and the occult, and like Satanic rituals are fucking a real.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Threat to them constantly in their mind.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
It's a real fucking threat, which we all know isn't
really a thing.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
Right, And oftentimes if there is anything Satan, actual Satanists
are very peace loving, right and not really about that.
And the people that are doing that are usually drug
adult teens that are just using that symbolically to like
scare each other and themselves exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
Yeah, so they they think that this is real. The
rumor spreads that there's a bunch of different accounts, but
including that she was found on a makeshift altar with
a halo of stones around her head. Anonymous person rode
into weirdenj dot com website claiming that there was arrows
carved into trees leading to her body and she was

(01:07:36):
surrounded by dead sacrificed animals and other ritualistic bullshit, and
the most common argument is that she was found surrounded
by logs like place to be, like to look like
a coffin around her, and then like someone puts sticks
in crosses like all around her, almost like setting it

(01:07:59):
up to make it look like it was Satanists, which
is exactly what someone who is in a Satanist would do.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
Yes, it's basically freak out about this thing, right, and
get really scared around it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Look over here, look over here, look over and then.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
I'll just go back over to this store that I
work in, act normal, and then you won't be looking
for a normal person because you're looking for a Satanic cult.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
And hey, who started those rumors? Like was it? You
might have been?

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
You?

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Right? All right, well we'll get to that gossip, the
real Devil after School special like Karen Kilgara.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Okay, Because it was the seventies and people back then
left nothing more than to believe in Satan, these cult
rumors spread like fucking wildfire, and soon the media pucking
picks up on it, and of course they're like acknowledging it,
saying this is what happened. People think this is what happened,
and saying it's true. And the depamas so her family
were born again Evangelical Pentecostal Christians. I don't know if

(01:08:56):
all those three things are the same. They different.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
It's again subsets where the Pentecostals are some of the
most intense occursions of Christianity.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Great.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
So they're Pentecostals, which is weird in this like suburban
mostly Italian Catholic people and they're born again. So they're like, yes,
let's do that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
They're like, I believe that there are extreme sects of
Pentecostal sect c seed a CCTs, that those are the
snake handlers.

Speaker 4 (01:09:27):
Well yeah, and those speaking in tongues and shit, that's right.
So they were okay. So there was a pastor there
named the pastor of that congregation named James Tait, and
he was totally fire on broomstone, dude, and like you know,
he put on these like sermons that were like fucking
exciting and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
You're gonna go to hell with the devil or what
the fuck?

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
And I'm then a handful of glittery he.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Just emptied out the pre whole punch.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Yeah, it's not gonna be this fun, it's not gonna
be this cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
You get you'll get a piece of glitter in your eye. Yeah,
and it'll stick there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Have you ever had like a card full of glitter
and then you have glitter on your style?

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Forget what you were thinking. But this is obnoxious.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Yeah, that's a living hell, and that's what you're entering in.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
That's satan. Satan is a fucking envelope full of glitter.

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
I tell you about the time my sister sneezed. She sneezed,
and she sneezed glitter. She's a grammar school teacher. That's
amazing as an ex raiver. I appreciate that and respected
respect to your sister.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Okay, So there were evangelical Pentecostal people and Jeanette's so,
Jeanette's parents were super into it. Jeanette attended services with
her parents regularly and was involved in the youth group.
So there's this thing about her that it's like half
the people are like, she was a wild child, she
was like rebellious and crazy, and the other half are like,

(01:10:55):
she was really religious and going to church. And what
it sounds like is she had been kind of a
partier and smoked pot and all the shit, and then
right before her her murder, had started to go to
church and kind of get over that phase of her life. So,
but it doesn't sound like she was ever really like
a like a bad girl in any way. She was

(01:11:16):
just hanging out, listening led Zeppelin and smoking pot. Right,
everyone in the fucking seventies.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Did, yes, And I think the because it could have
been simultaneous where she was because her family was very religious.
That's usually how it happens, and that's what you're rebelling against.
It's like if you're if you're in a like a
born again Christian type of family, whatever, it gets real,
real strict and narrow, and so there could have been
however it happened timeline wise, those things go together, rebellion

(01:11:43):
and the hardcore, really you know, buttoned down religion.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
It just sounded like she was a normal teenage girl
in the age and area. And so the pastor and
the parents helped fuel the satanic fucking panic in town.
YESU pastor James Tate is quoted in papers from back
then describing Jeanette as quote extremely religious and a very

(01:12:09):
devout parishioner. He goes on to say that he believes
a group worshiped the devil in the woods where Jeanette
was found and Jeanette may have tried to quote lecture
them about Jesus. He says, quote, I'm sure Jeanette herself
was not involved in anything like that, but I know
that many of the other young people in the area
are involved. Like, how do you No one's telling you

(01:12:29):
about their fucking Satanism, dude. It's this kind of thing
that's just like, it's just others and I and no
tolerance for other people, no tolerance for the struggles that
other people are going through.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
And also no tolerance for kids, right and teenagers of
your own community. So it's basically saying, let's source out
the anybody weird from right here, and if they're young
and they can't defend themselves or they you know, if
they do go out in the woods because their parents
aren't around or whatever, Satanist like, let's get the weakest
of our community and just load.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
All this up.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
But it's also a warning to all the fucking parish,
the kids with the people in the congregation, saying, if
you walk out of this fucking uh church, if you
don't stay in here, if you don't give us the
money we're asking for, if you don't pray as much
as we're telling you to you're going to become like
these other people, so you better fucking stay here, right.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
And meanwhile, we all know, and we've heard so many
of these stories that it's like, it's never it's never that, no,
and you're basically misdirecting like the entire community's mindset about
something that is a murder that needs to get solved
right factually exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
And you know, there's probably law enforcement on the in
this who are in that church, sure, you know what
I mean, So they believe all that, Okay, So he says,
these kids tell us that that when they are on drugs,
they are in the control of Satan. They did things
they didn't want to do because of the power of

(01:13:59):
the evil. Which I'm sorry, I just fucking saw my
popcorn ceiling moving around when I was on drugs, I
didn't see Satan.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
I mean, I've been filled with the devil since day one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
But that's on me. I mean, I realized that it's
kind of fun. It's it's always felt like a little
bit of a tickle, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
The article went on to say that both Jeanette and
her older sister had drug problems which were quote solved
a few years before when the entire family converted to
the Church of God. So they were like these rebellious kids,
and they were like, we're going to help you. So
this pastor ran an evangelical outreach program that ministered to
a adolescent substance abusers.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
He did it, I know, right, for really I think,
so get out of there.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Okay, How does he know how to help substance abusing
That's right, that's not his area of nex fortise.

Speaker 4 (01:14:48):
And it's possible that Jeanette worked on that with him,
so like she might have been involved in that. So
he claimed that quote Jeannette had Jeanette may have been
a symbol of Christ to these devil worshippers and that's
why they killed her. She fucking happened upon them and
they were like smoking pots and she was like, Jesus
loves you, and then they.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Killed her because of that. That's not a thing that
doesn't happen.

Speaker 4 (01:15:08):
No one needs conjecture at this point. Sorry, New Jersey,
it's not that fucking it's not that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Careful. Let's not mess with the state of news. I'm
talking about New Jersey nineteen seventy. I'm not talking about
it now. It's a great place to live. Those people
can't fight us. Great. Later, when he's interviewed for this book.

Speaker 4 (01:15:26):
That I told you about Death on the Devil's Teeth,
he changes his whole fucking story and says that she
was definitely involved with some occult things. It's so strange
that she wanted to be involved with that, especially when
her family was getting so involved with the Lord, which
her sisters say isn't true. She wasn't her sister's like,
she had no fucking occult books. She didn't have devil worship.
Bullshit isn't the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
So, the Tate's son, who's now a pastor as well,
goes on to say that they dated as teens right
before she disappeared. He said, we dated for several months.
I cared deeply for her. She was an awesome young lady.
Broke up with me because we could not see each
other enough. I was sad about breaking up and holding
out hope that she would return and maybe we could
get the relationship going again. But it was not to be.

(01:16:09):
She was missing for six weeks and then her remains
were discovered. Oh so, meaning he's saying like they were
breaking up while she disappeared, Like, come on, oh, Coyles,
can you look into that a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
Yeah, they're all still alive, so I'm not going to
say their names. That's a good idea.

Speaker 4 (01:16:23):
So Jeanette's parents were insanely religious and believed the satan angle.
Missus de Palma told a reporter that Jeanette may have
met her death by persons.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
Possessed by the devil.

Speaker 4 (01:16:32):
So of course the fucking town goes ape shits, right,
and everyone's losing their mind over it. Some have accused
her church of having something to do with this whole
thing like we've been talking about, and they're saying that
the pastors like fervor around the Satan thing is just
a distraction. The weird thing that's not mentioned in some

(01:16:55):
of these articles about the story is that nine days
after Jeannette disappeared, another young woman went missing nearby, twenty
four year old Joan Kramer. She was a graduate student
at Columbia when she was last seen August fifteenth, nineteen
seventy two, hitchhiking home after she had stormed off after
a fight with her fiance, which is just as fucking heartbreaking.

(01:17:19):
She walked about a mile and then called a girlfriend
about midnight to say she was going to get a
taxi to take her home, but witnesses say they saw
a man drive up in a car and ask her
if she needed to ride. I mean, it was the seventies,
like everyone fucking did that. She was missing for thirteen
days when two teens found her body lying face down
in a secluded wooded area along the Elizabeth River, five

(01:17:42):
miles from her home and six miles from where Jeanete's
body was found.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
Wow, and that was.

Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
Nine days later. They didn't connect the two. An autopsy
indicated that she had been strangled, which is what they
thought had happened to Jeanette, and there were other similarities.
They were both you know, beautiful brunette parted down the
mental hair, which is like seventies normal, Both ought to
be strangled, and both ladies had been missing their necklaces.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Ooh yeah, trophy, uh huh.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
So for for the murder of Joan the Second Joan Kramer,
A disgraced and drunken.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Is how he's described. A disgraced and drunken accountant.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
Yes, how he's described the only people I want to party,
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:18:28):
His name was Otto Nilsson. He had a long history
of mental instability and domestic violence. He's identified as the
person who picked up Joan Kramer that night only because
detectives are like, hey, he looks like the composite sketch. Oh,
let's follow him, let's arrest him, let's bring him to trial.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Yes. No, oh, no, shit, I didn't know. Not helpful. No,
it's not good because he's not he didn't pick her.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Up that night.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Can't just base it on the composites. He looks like it.
Oh okay, but oh they're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
They're saying he's the one that picked her up purely
because he looks like Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Yes, no, I must have done. I probably didn't say that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
Well, they basically, you look like this picture. You are
the person that's.

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
Right, and you have some you know, you have a
history of mental instability, domestic violence. Restic finds great, this
is our guy. Let's get him and let's make the
town stop worrying about this murder on the loose.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
And you hit it on this guy exactly. So he's, uh,
it's like, great, right, I need this thing solid.

Speaker 4 (01:19:30):
Oh, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, Okay,
he's arrested and tried for her murder. The jury's like, oh, sorry,
we're going to need more information than that. And he
gets acquitted. Oh good, he's released.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
I changed change my mind out now that I understand
what we're doing. Good kind of people, now that you
realize that we're in what is it twenty nineteen and
not nineteen seventy two, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Not nineteen seventy two.

Speaker 4 (01:19:54):
He is committed to a state psychiatric hospital in Trenton.
He stays there and dies in nineteen ninety two. Wow,
so like something was going on with him.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
And despite this crazy fervor and insanity surrounding the murder
of Jeanette to Palma, it quickly goes cold. The case
isn't closed, of course, but the case files for her
murder are destroyed by flooding during Hurricane Floyd.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
In nineteen ninety nine. WHOA, So there's no the files
are gone. Oh no, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
And to this day, people in that area won't fucking
talk about it because they are convinced that it's a
satanic ritual, it's satanist, it's witches, it's an occult murder,
So they won't even talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Because they're scared of that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
Oh no, which I think is the perfect fucking cover
for someone who has nothing to do with the fucking occult.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Yes, and it's just a murderer, or perhaps the opposite
of the occult, someone involved in a church. That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
And so you know how I said that they found
high They found high traces of lead in her body.
So I went down this fucking rabbit hole of exorcisms.
Is there ever led anything lead used in it?

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
And I couldn't find.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Anything, sadly, But how great would that be if I
solved it? Yes, exactly. You're like, well, I'm the one
that made the connection where holy water is filled with
les lead. It's just like Confettian lead. It's holywater. I
mean that would be Oh, that'd be so satisfying. But
that's like, you're right, it's the perfect setup where you
set you you light the fuse of devil worship.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Yeah, little crosses with sticks, that's all you have to do.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
Right, and everyone that bomb goes off, and then that's
all anyone will look at. And meanwhile, there's just somebody
probably sitting in that town or two towns away. Yeah,
that's a serial killer, right, or could have kept on going.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Oh yeah, there's so many.

Speaker 4 (01:21:46):
I looked up like because there was some other couple
other murders of young girls in the area and the time,
and I went to a website that's just scrolling and
scrolling a scrolling of fucking young women in New Jersey
who were murdered around that time, and it's like, pick
any of them, and they're so so many cold cases,
so many cold cases. And there's two serial killers that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Are like the Torso Killer. Like it's just fucked up. Yeah. Yeah,
there's so much of it, which is why I'm drinking
canned wine. Yeah. It makes life easier, it really does.
And that's the Devil's Teeth Murder aka the murder of JEANETTEA. Palma. Wow,
fucking crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:22:23):
So Kat Solan, who is our friend, wanted to make
a whole like true crime puppet show. Yeah, and have
that be like a serious one and have that be
the first case. And she told me about it, and
I was like, oh my god, this is insane.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
I remember that she was talking about that because she
does these amazing stop motion and puppet shows.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
She's such an incredible artist.

Speaker 4 (01:22:44):
Yeah, that would be so cool. Yeah, yeah, Her show
is The Shivering Truth on Adult Swim.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
If you want to check it out. It's fucking awesome, amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
You won't believe what she made with Vernon Chapman. Yeah,
who's from who is one of the creators of Wonder
Shows And if you ever Wonder shows, in which you
better have.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
I fucking met and you know Vernon.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
He's one of the first stand up comics I ever met. Really, yeah,
I did a competition with him in Citrus Heights like
three months after I started stand up comedy in nineteen ninety.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
Is it weird that I know Citrus Heights only because
of Michelle mcnary's book. I'm like, no, it's not Golden
State Killer.

Speaker 3 (01:23:19):
It's one of the reasons I hate Sacramentos because of
the Golden State Killer.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
Yes, I resent his crimes. That's fair.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):
I took it personally. Okay, So we do some fucking
herangu let's do it. I'm not sure if I'm going
to be able to put this in words correctly, okay,
because this is a different thing than the thing we
talked about of saying thank you to live show, our
live show audiences and this massive five month tour that
we've been on. That's just wrapping up our next Our
final weekend is next weekend, which is amazing. But there

(01:23:52):
was a moment when we were at those Dallas shows
when we were in the meet and greet and I
had this weird moment where and the way I tried
to explain it to Georgia real time was it suddenly
felt like I caught up to what was happening in
real time, and it almost made me cry because these
girls walked up women and they started talking and it's

(01:24:14):
just a it's a thing that's to us now normal
and natural, but you stand back from it a little bit.
For us, it's insane that we even do that and
people want to meet us, right and that, and that
they get excited and then they have stuff to tell us.
And there's a lot of really big positive energy. But
I think my way of dealing with either negative or
positive energy is accepting none of it and just being like, no,

(01:24:37):
all these all these stores are shut and I'm just
going to get through this and I'll process it later
on by myself.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
I literally talked my new therapist about that today. Yeah,
because it's a lot dissociating.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
You have to dissociate when you don't understand like what
this new reality is. And this has been you know,
we talk about this all the time, but in this moment,
it almost felt like I no longer had this fear
of how overwhelming and huge these feelings are.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
And it was like, ooh, it felt so good. And
I think it was.

Speaker 3 (01:25:04):
A couple very young women have lately told us that
they're proud of us in those and it's very genuine
and it's very sweet, and it is that feeling of
like because people always walk up and go like, you
don't know us, but I know you, and we always
say and it's hokey, but we're always like, no.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
We kind of know you. We know you, and we
know each other, and that's we're all this kind of
we're all we're all a type of person.

Speaker 3 (01:25:27):
Yeah, like we're a sensitive, pay attention to grewsome things.
We know each other, we're a type of person. And
so I just had this moment that it felt like
almost like really concentrated gratitude and appreciation and kind of
like wonderment all at once, where I was standing like
a couple feet back and then I was like, well,

(01:25:49):
you're I was going to start crying and I'm like,
you will make this so weird if you're the run
crying and the mean and greet. So I had to
pull down those those metal uh know, well the window
coverings that the businesses have on Hollywood bouwl. Like, I
had to pull those down internally and just go, don't
cry right now, because that's for them.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
They on that. I'm fine, yes, don't look away.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
But it really was a very cool moment because it
was just like the reality of this life that we
have now, which is awesome and cool, but it's hard.
It's hard to feel the reality of it from the inside.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
Yeah, we've just been on go go go mode. Yeah
three years.

Speaker 3 (01:26:29):
Yeah, Like we haven't had a chance yet to like
to contemplate it, right, Like I haven't had a chance
to go to yoga and meditate on it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
No, it's been so crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
Yeah, and that's our excuse why we haven't been doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
It's the thing. I love yoga. I love you.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
I'm going to be doing it anymoment I need me again.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:46):
And there's lots of people that come up and they're like,
I started yoga because of you guys, And I'm like,
I'm a work, but whatever, I guess the overall it's
just it's like another one of those gratitude moments. But
it was very powerful because it was like it was
just that feeling of like what a great fucking thing
to fall into and how how ideal it is is
an experience because it really I just love every goddamn

(01:27:09):
aspect of it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Thanks. I almost don't want to.
I almost want to ride on yours. No, get off mine,
you do your own.

Speaker 4 (01:27:18):
No, it's like we have one horse because we had
a kind of rich dad and he bought us that and.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
I'm like my shirt with you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
We had a dad that one broke, but he first
bought us as Palomino's and all right, we're behind it
on it, Like your sister get on the horse with you, Karen, Karen,
let your sister get on the horse.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
Let's do that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
No, say something, my what's your real one?

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:27:42):
Well my therapist died six months ago. Yeah, and it's
been weird and hard, and part of the wall that
I'm putting up around everything you just said is included
in that because it's like I can't deal with this
right now, but it hits me sometimes and it's big.
And so two things happened. One is, at the.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Grand Old Oprey show, her mom came because her niece
heard me do a little dedication to her and realized
it was her Kim that I was talking about and
played it for her mom, and so they drove all
the way to come to the show in Nashville, and
I got to meet her and hug her and it

(01:28:24):
just meant so much to me.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
And the other thing is that I was given a
token of hers that actually had always meant a lot
to me. It's this beautiful necklace with this nice, gorgeous stone.
It's a black amethyst.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
I think it's beautiful, yeah, and I'm a really lovely necklace.

Speaker 2 (01:28:44):
It's and it was gifted to me last week, and
it just meant it means so much to me, and
I'm I can't wait till I.

Speaker 4 (01:28:51):
Could process the feelings around that, but I know they're
going to be heavy and hard when I do, and
it's just it's it feels meaningful that I think that
I can carry on what she gave me, which is
an understanding of my place in the world and what
gratitude means and how to deal with the hugeness of

(01:29:16):
life and the heaviness of being vulnerable, and so I
really appreciate that of her.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
And yeah, that's it, that's beautiful. Well, it's true. It's
like the.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
You know we were talking about just before we started taping,
where it's just like it just never stops coming. So
we think, we keep thinking, or I should say, I
keep imagining that you work really hard and then you
get into a safe space and it's like and that
I imagine that that is all my work in therapy
or in business or whatever is. It's buying me safety

(01:29:53):
from vulnerability, safety from bad things happening, safety from but
that is never gets to happen, and there's no you
can't guard against it, and you can't pulling down the
metal walls of your emotional store. If you do that
too much, they will rust shut. And as a person
who felt like when I went into therapy that those

(01:30:13):
walls could never come back up again for many great reasons, Yeah,
it's it's what you're doing, in my opinion, watching you
having to walk through this horrible thing. But it feels
to me like you're taking the things she wanted you
to know the most and really keeping those in the
forefront as you kind of process or or you know,

(01:30:37):
not process.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:30:39):
Well, it's the thing of like when you put those
metal gates down, it doesn't keep you from bad things happening.
It just is that when they happen, and it's say,
it's the end. You didn't enjoy any of it, right,
and you didn't get to experience it fully?

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
And you for my the way mine work, I cut
myself off from relationships because I decide that's what's not right,
that this is what's going to happen. I'll control this,
this amount of pain because that's where all the pain
comes from. Is like other people fucking dying or disappointing
you or rejecting you or whatever, when actually you're cutting

(01:31:14):
yourself off from the only thing that can make you
feel better.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
Yeah, and those things of them dying and rejecting and
disappointing is like, well, if you had felt them with
your whole heart, you know, would the outcome be the
same or would you would just you know, be more
grateful for the experience rather than seeing how fucking shitty
it was, right.

Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
Right, and we said that before, But it's like it
is the going through life if you can and it
takes a lot. With the idea that this could happen
in any minute, you should live like it could happen
in any minute.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
And I do could, but not in an anxiety way.
Right right, it's a new way. It's a new way.
But you had to learn that lesson the worst possible way.

Speaker 3 (01:31:54):
Yeah, it's crazy, Yeah, dude, big stuff heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
This is not a podcast. We're more than a podcast.
We're a book. We're a book now too.

Speaker 4 (01:32:04):
We're book and a web and website and exactly right
podcast network. Please go listen to the Murder Squad and
the percast and the fall line and do you need
a ride?

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
And this podcast will kill you.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
We're and then our there's of course our new venture
for the brand, which is our metal rolling door company
that we're going to open up.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
If it costs five thousand dollars, set right, Do you
want a special graffiti on it? Well, it's extra.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
We just cater We custom build them to your personal
emotional specifications.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
Roll them up, Roll them.

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
Up, guys, let's all roll our emotional uh metal doors
up together, yes, and and flash each other our uh
our sult its, our salt its.

Speaker 3 (01:32:47):
That's right, great, We've done it right, We did it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
We're done. Thank you so much. We love you. Yes,
thank you for listening. And stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis.
You want a cookie?

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
Good boy?