235 - Mr. Zip

Karen and Georgia cover serial killer Robert Spangler and the unsolved Delphi murders.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite Murder the Podcast episode
the Full.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
It has nothing to do with the minis. Why would
I say that?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
According during the day and that's when we usually record minisodes.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Right, that's right.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's not the weekend, right, it's not the weekend right now,
that's right. It's the daytime outside, it's.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Not fucking Wednesday evening.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
And we're gonna make Steven stan uptel Fouria editing this podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
So all of reality is broken and bizarre.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
And on top of that, we decided to make a
couple changes so that things were just slightly weirder that
even just the baseline touchstones that we have in our lives,
we just kind of upended those as well.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
I like it it, yeah, I think it's a good idea. Creatively,
things are gonna be the same and different.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh my god, can you imagine all over the different
but at the same How do you have a ponytail
in or did you cut your hair off?

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I have a ponytail.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Pony whoa, that's a formidable ponytail for you. Thank you?
Are you growing your hair long? Let's start with some
visual conversation for this episode of this podcast. Everything is
going to be explained visually. Yep, deal with it.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Deal with it.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Just got I would say, she has got a finger,
an index, fingers, long, ponytail back there.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I love a good messy pony. That's always kind of
been my favorite thing is like it looks like a
paintbrush that exploded.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, it's my favorite. You're a nineties girls run through.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I am, Yeah, I'm so nineties. I posted a loto
on Instagram recently and I had like a kerchief in
my hair from the nineties. Yes, it was so nice.
It was like, you know, you do it like a little.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Hell, yes, I do. I showed you that picture that
I had that my friend sent with it.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
I used to rock. My friend called it the babushka.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
But it's just again, mister. My grandma called it a shmata. Shmata, yeah,
shmata and Yiddish is just like a rag that you yeah,
somatas Schmanta's in my vocabulary because the producer used to
call that on a TV show I worked on. Anything
that you used to cover something at any size, it

(02:30):
was always a shmanta. Yeah, because we'd have like a
bag full of like you don't throw your socks away,
your old socks away.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
You put them in the shmata.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Bag and you use them so you can dust with
your lemon pledge. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, absolutely waste a nice towel.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
These days, I.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Am literally going out of the house once a day
just to see if something happens so that I can
bring it back and talk about it on our podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Oh that's that's how little is going on.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Uh, because we live in a quarantine and where I
actually believe that this virus is bad for you and
giving it to other people is a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yeah, I'm one of those rare fields.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Don't get bad vibes on top of being sick by
not wearing a mask when you go out of the house.
I went out like for the real for the first time. Yesterday,
Vincent I went to the beach. It's his birthday week,
so yeah, to the beach.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Happy birthday, Vince Abril, the America's husband. What a great
job you're doing. Thank you for showing us how great
men can be.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yay, yay, Evince.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I went went to the beach and we stopped for
sandwiches first to go and uh, just no one was
wearing a fucking mask in Venice where it's like I
would think everyone is the most like liberal, you know,
fucking crunchy, going after it, taking care of people and others.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
No, no fucking masks.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
This is Los Angeles. This is Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh yeah, aimen to the fucking girl working or the
gal working at the counter at Gto in Venice where
we got our sandwiches, because we were like, you know,
she was fucking strict and she was like, go in
that way. Stand there was really strict with us, and
we were like following directions. And then this like you know,
hipster dude tries to come in and just pull his
t shirt up over his face instead of have a

(04:11):
mask on. So he's just doing one of the like
pulling a shirt out and she just goes yelled at
him to get out, and he fucking followed a direction
and it like embarrassedly walked out. She's like, no mask,
You can't come in without a mask. Can't you have
food short mask? Which I respect that he at least
tried to do something. It wasn't like he tried.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
But I think what they're saying that science is finding
that you have to have a real mask.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
That's kind of the point.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Your fucking eighty eight dollar T shirt, distressed T shirt
that you bought from fucking.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
From a concert you didn't actually go to, isn't going.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yeah. See this is a problem though, because we're all
in this place of upset always because of the reality
of the world around us in myriad ways, no matter
where you stand on the spectrum, political spectrum or whatever. Yeah,
it's when you go out your anticipating conflict.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, and that.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Is such a problem. It's scary. It makes people defensive,
it makes people extra sensitive. There's things that you would
have never paid attention to or never worried about that
now you're like, we're in now, we're in a place,
and there a fight could break out over masks. Like
this reality is so intense. It's just so intense. You

(05:29):
give yourself a break. Make sure you give yourself a break.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, go to the beach. God, it felt amazing, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Was it great? Was it busy?

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Nope, not busy at all. You know, smattering of people,
the water was like the clearest I ever seeing in
southern California because I'm not there right now, and like,
it just was lovely.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
And you get those negative ions which are very good
for you according.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
To positive ions, negative ions.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Get the negative ones. You've already got all your positive ones.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
What's going on you have?

Speaker 1 (05:59):
I don't really have much good conversationally.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, I was excited to see that you started watching
Love on the Spectrum.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yeah, we started Love on the Spectrum. It's so cute.
I love it so much. It's so charming. Everyone's so charming.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's a hall of heroes, the people that agreed to
be so vulnerable as to be on that show and
have a camera follow them around to watch how they
interact and date.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, hard enough for any person.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
And then with the person that might be on the
spectrum have aspergers or just have kind of social c issues,
so much harder.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Who is your favorite so far?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I will only watched one episode, but Chloe is coming
out as a top for me, a top contender because
she's so thoughtful. She does this thing on her date
where it's awkward in the beginning and she's like, so,
what books do you like because she loves to read,
and the guys kind of sheepishly like, oh, I didn't
learn to read until I was thirteen, and like it

(07:01):
could have gotten awkward, and instead she responds oh, I
didn't talk till I was seven, in this like really
generous way of like, well, there's no judgment here. Were
you know about you not being able to read? Like
he seemed embarrassed about it, and immediately she was right, well,
I didn't talk till I was seven, So yeah, this
isn't this isn't a competition, and this is yeah, judge,

(07:24):
your reason is a judgment. It was just a very
sweet moment that I appreciated.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's kind of what I'm talking about when you and I,
when I was talking about it feels to me I
watch it and go, oh, I feel like I could
do this. Yeah, it's so nice because it's because most
of that kind of stuff, I just go, I can't.
I can't. I can't do it. Yeah, I can't watch
somebody else be vulnerable and I can't be vulnerable.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
And it's like, no, I absolutely.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Can't, mean like going on a date or just being
vulnerable in general.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Or both, well both but dating specifically, because I always
anytime it's like for a formal kind of thing, I
do have that thing of if a moment like that happened,
instead of like I would feel like, oh that person
I did that to them, Yeah, or like or I

(08:13):
would do it, And it's because I was. I drank
for so long, so dates were all like escape behavior
and then I was like I was a superstar and
I didn't know how I did it.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, essentially, Yeah, you weren't even like totally there for them,
so you didn't experience any awkwardness at all.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
No, they're drunk.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Karen never felt awkwardness, and she always had great stuff
to scream across a restaurant.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
And it didn't matter if he was drunk too.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
You're fine, You're fine. We're not there anymore.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's in my gass.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Look, no one's not thinking.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
About it, but you you don't have You're not there
right now.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
You're not there.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
No one's ever going to make you go back there.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
But but you know what brought me back there was
when Michael was on his date with and I feel
bad because this girl was kind of a b plot girl.
So she was the girl with the bow in her
hair that was kind of gothy and liked to cosplay.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
And I'm sorry I didn't remember your name.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Because you were no gothics. Remember when he specifically, what
kind of girl do you want?

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well?

Speaker 3 (09:12):
No, Gothics, just like, yeah, Gothics, no VISI goths invading.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
There was a moment where the two of them were
at this at dinner together in this fancy restaurant, in
that rad table that was like right there by the
windows looking over the I think they're in Sydney, so
it was like looking over the Sydney harbor, gorgeous. And
they're talking and he's asking him questions and she's answering,
and then it gets to like question number seven and

(09:40):
she just starts to stare off and then kind of
puts her head down and then goes excuse me, and
then just leaves. And I swear to God, I was like,
all this sudden, it's like I have done this. I've
done this where I can get through like the the
most awk or like for me, the vulnerable part that

(10:03):
makes me go, I can't.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
I don't want to do this.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
I don't want to feel these feelings. And then so
I can like kind of fake my way through it
for twenty minutes, and then there is a there's a
moment where it stops and I can't fake it anymore.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
And it used to be that I could.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
By that point, I would have had seven beers in
me already and it wouldn't matter. But in that I
watched her do the thing that I'm doing inside, where
you just retreat, you retreat you, you suddenly start telling
yourself this is going badly, no matter what the reality
is or how interested you are, it's this is not
good and here's all the reasons why.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
And then it's just a complete like it's like.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
You watched her coil up, yeah, and retreat sucked away
into the ether, yeah, and just basically have a full
I think later she said it was like anxiety. Yeah,
which for years, instead of ever interpreting that as anxiety,
I was just like, oh, there's something terribly wrong with me.
And it's like, nope, you have the thing every other
person on the planet.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
All broken on some fucking level. Yes, And the key
is to not continue to break yourself by being broken
by your breaks.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
That it It is true.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
That is true. Well.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
And also it's about it's the word I love to use.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
I'm not going to be able to think of it,
of course in this moment, but it's about what it's about,
basically being able to bounce back. So you know who
did that a lot? The girl that was in it
the most with the little Bob who had the hilarious
mom and she was so good at when she was
on a date and something weird would weird would happen,
she would just basically ask a different question or go

(11:44):
in a different thing, or kind of sit there and
not not be so freaked out that she felt like,
I was so impressed by her ability to just hang
in the moment, no matter what the moment was bringing.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Yeah, and it's resilient. That's the word I was looking.
Resilience where you.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Don't just get destroyed by like the one weird word someone, Yeah,
which is like that's the point. It's like you're just
hanging out and not you're just seeing what you think.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
We're all just like we're all runs in tights, and
the key is to take some clear nail polish and
put it at the bottom of the tight because then
it will keep running. And like, yeah, it looks weird
because there's clear nail polish on you everywhere.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
But but but you don't just like see the you
don't see the run and then rip the tights off
your legs because it's it's imperfect and tuba.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
And light them on fire while they're still on you.
You don't throw a match on the ear and.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Then say I'll never date again.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Poor alcohol over them. You can't do it. That's the
other thing too, is they dated and dated and dated.
They kept trying. Every single person on that show just
kept trying.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
You got to do that. When this is over, you're
going to go on a date. I know what if
I did? Could do you imagine?

Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Full masks?

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, for van, they'll over make like a tandem mask
so you can make out while your boat's still masked.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
What about a tandom mask. There's like what it's like,
it'll be cute. I'm gonna I'm making that. I'm calling
it everyone. No one's steal that from it.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Basically you're pulling it would kind of just be like
you pull a big pair of underwear over both.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Of your heads, like a granny panty over both your heads.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Or it's kind of like when you like, you know,
my cousin Steve used to it all the time, where
you put his hand over your mouth and then.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Pretend to be making out with you.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yes, that's crazy, I know, problematic, but it's how we
were in the seventies eighties.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Stuff like that happened a lot.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Remember in The Naked Gun when they both put on
like full body condoms.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
That's what we need and we'll be like that. But
you could go in with Leslie Nielsen's Nielsen we all
need like Naked Gun.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know what I want?

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Those movies hold up, by the way, the Naked Gun
series holds up up.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Airplane. Oh ship, Airplane. Every young young young ends that
listen to this, go watch Airplane. Go watch The Princess Bride.
We watched that the other night.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Oh that classic?

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah? What else?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Total Recall? I watched Total Recall last night.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
It's all like we're trying to figure out what is
actually going to help in them in a moment that
no one's experienced before.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Right, yeah, so it's like great the Great British Bake
Off or Baking Show or whatever.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Yeah, uh does.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Like did it for me from let's say March to May. Yeah,
and that whole like quiet British people getting along really
did it for me.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Now we've moved into Dwayne the Rock Johnson area that
I'm not I don't want to move out of any
time soon.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
He's doing it for.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Me help me either, come come on, I'm still in
toy like, we're still a Top Chef. Not bad, and
a little bit of parks and rec and of course
Perry Mason, which finished last night.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I got so sad. I was like, I'm just gonna,
oh look, look back, Hey, what are you doing.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
When George is at all come to?

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Oh hi? Hi? Okay.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
So funny that they come in together, that they're like
the other room hanging out.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
No, no, they just got dropped off from the dog park.
Good job, everybody. No, George will get it. Sorry. Can
I get rid of these guys really quick?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Do they want park?

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay? Let's it's a test night night, You're you're unnoticed, George.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
What are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Top Chef? Oh yeah, Perry.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
The sadness of losing Perry Mason. Spoiler alerts probably so
be careful if you're watching it right now. But god
damn that show was so satisfying and beautifully done in
every department. And the man who plays Pete Strickland Shaye
h Shay.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Is he the guy who's the Assistan, like the who
becomes part of the DA after.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
He's the he's the private investigator that's with Harry Mason. First,
he is so good in that what's his name?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Oh, hold on, let me Shae.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
He's in everything. But this is the thing I liked
him in the most. Shaye Wig.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
He's shay Wig everything, and he's incredible.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
He's so goddamn good in that character because he was
he was a huge character in Boardwalk Empire. Yeah, it
was so good. So when he showed up in this,
I was like, oh, yeah, he's back, and that whole thing, Like,
there's something about his face that looks like Popa. He
looks Popeye and also like my first camp crush, that
kind of like he's always smirking on one side of

(16:47):
his mouth. Yeah, and he's always gonna like basically tell
you to fuck off in a very casual way.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
And he's handling shit. It's the thirties and he's handling shit,
but his ties really short.

Speaker 3 (16:58):
And he can fucking roll a mean cigarett.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Oh shit, Pete Strickland, Yeah yeah. And when they got
into that fight, Perry Mason's just like basically going at
the world is on my shoulders and you're fucking up,
And he was like, well, you can get that other
guy to come eat shit, because I've had play. It
was like it was just written so so well and
so realistically to the time, but not anachronistically so that

(17:24):
you were just like, really.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, that was incredible. It was beautifully done all around.
Should we do exactly right corner?

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Real quick, let's go over some great things you can
listen to on the listen if you're sitting around and
you you're not sure what you should be listening to
this week, We've got some shows on the Exactly Right Network,
and we'd like to just go over a couple of
great things that are happening.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
That's right, Like, for example, Karen's podcast Do You Need
a Ride with the hilarious Chris Fairbanks has a new
episode this week, right, and Chris is in Montana at home,
so his dad's on it, yes, and his dad was.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
A Jane Carmel.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
And when Clint Eastwood made the movie Play Misty for Me,
which is another great film if you haven't seen it,
it's like a thriller from the seventies. It's so good.
We talked about it. Okay, did we talk about it?
I don't know, Oh no, maybe I'm sorry. Maybe Chris
and I talked about it. Jessica Walter, who is the
mom from Arrested Development is this is one of the
stars with Clint Eastwood. And so Clint Eastwood came and

(18:25):
watched Chris's dad be a DJ. So held because he
was playing a DJ in the movie Oh.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
My God, a radio.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
He's like an archetype for fucking DJs or the likes
of Clint Eastwood.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
For Clint Eastwood, I, Forgod's sake, incredible, but he really
does have one of those radio voices. And then he's
just funny and it was very like heartwarming because I've
never met him in real life. Yeah, so we got
to have a little bit of a Montana dad hanging.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
It was very sweet.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
This week on the on the fall Line, they're still
doing their series Florida's Missing and Murdered and they're covering
the un solved murders of terry On Summers and Diasha Andrews,
who are trans women from Jacksonville who are beloved in
their community, and they're trying to shine a spotlight on

(19:11):
those crimes so that they can get them solved. So
make sure to check that out, please, And there's a
bunch of other stuff on exactly right, we're making for
you guys. Yeah, I feel like, so can we talk
about the friends of the podcast? Speaking speaking of podcasts,
we were like friends of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
We've like started, you know, we started saying that recently
love it, looked it up and we just completely stole it.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
We didn't realize on accident, it's totally Pod Save America.
It's totally Pod Save America's line.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, we kept sorry, we kept saying friends of the Pod,
which literally Pod Save America has like.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
Has merchant ship.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because we went to go, oh, should we make a
shirt that says friends of the pod, And then I
just looked. I'm like, this seems familiar to me. It
seems familiar, and then I look it up and that's
like it's what they call their listeners. Basically, friend of
the Pod is the shirt. So if you do want
that shirt and you are a listener of podcasts in general,
go get pod Save America's right, they're the ones that

(20:11):
are doing it.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
And in the meantime, make sure you're registered to vote and
make sure you vote. It's really important, please God.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
And also, if we're going to talk about that, we
might as well talk about that. You should probably try
to support in some way the US Postal Service, which
is crucial in operating correctly to get all of the
at home ballots process. So if you can buy stamps
or any of the Actually, Friend of the Family and

(20:39):
popular Banana Boys, Scotti Landis pointed out to me that
the US Postal Service, if you go on their website,
they have an awesome merch like awesome merch. And there's
the character from I think it's the sixties or seventies
when they started trying to make zip codes really popular.
There's like a cartoon character and I think his name

(21:01):
was mister Snip.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Love It.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
And you can get a T shirt of that guy.
I think that's the one. Scotty was telling me. He
got the T shirt and Scotty the big merchhead. Scotty
is good at march. He's good at merch and he
also is a huge purveyor of the mail. He loves
to send postcards. He sends people mail and postcards and
letters all the time for real.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
It's like a thing he does on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
So cool.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
So yeah, so's he's doing his part.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
You do your part, do your part, and then also
keep an eye out that our entire system is being
dismantled in front of our buckond.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Eyes, and it's really important that it doesn't happen. Look, listen,
this is a true crime comedy podcast. That's Karen Kilgarat,
that's Georgia Hartstar and this is my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
And Stephen Ray Morris. I almost said Jay Morris on
the Ones and twos. That's not Stephen Ray Morris. Whose
verst is week Stephen, we did.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
A Q and A so.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
We can do whatever we want ship well who who
we did it first? The time? The last time we
did stories?

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Last time was was that Amsterdam?

Speaker 2 (22:14):
No we didn't between that. Yeah, that means I went time,
So I go first, right, Okay, I believe, So go
for it, guys. Okay, So on Twitter someone named Dylan
who's at Brown Deer on Twitter, she wrote to me
and said, can you treat us to this wild ride?

(22:36):
And then she included an article from the New York
Daily News about a murder, Well about.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
This story I'm about to tell you.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Okay, So thank you very much Dylan for hipping me
to that, because then it reminded me that I watched
this on I think it will I think it was
Dateline but now I can't remember. I feel like I
remember everything's dateline, but because I remember when they kind
of came, you know, that thing that used to happen,
and like when if somebody, if the case was still ongoing,

(23:08):
but they would cover it and then it would be
like this seems suspicious and there's things in the past
or whatever. This is one of those stories that is
so crazy and it went on for so long, and
it's a little bit reminiscent of the John List tale
of the Family Annihilator, but it's it's worse and more

(23:29):
fucked up. This is the story of family and annihilator
and wife killer. I'm giving it all the way. This
is the story of Bob Spangler. Okay, this is just
a standard straight up true crime serial killer, holassic, horrific dude,
always always herding baseline promise.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
I'm not, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
It's not ringing a bell. But let's excited.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Let's let's see what you think about this. So this
is from this kind of like it starts in nineteen
ninety three or so you think. Okay, so ideal eleven
you're being led to believe on April eleventh, nineteen ninety three,
Easter Sunday morning, fifty nine year old Donna Sundling Spangler

(24:16):
is hiking in the Grand Canyon with her husband, Bob.
Donna's an aerobics instructor. She's a mother to five grown
children from a previous marriage, and you know, she has
five grandchildren as well. She's not that interested in hiking.
It's not her favorite. But her husband, Bob is passionate
about it. He's been doing it for years, especially in

(24:36):
the Grand Canyon.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
That's what he loves the most.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
So because he really her wanted her to go with
him that weekend, she said yes. Another reason she didn't
want to go, and especially because it's in the Grand Canyon,
is she's afraid of heights, oh dear. So when the
couple reaches the cliffs of the Horseshoe mesa hiking loop,
they stop at the top to take a picture. So
if you look that up on Google or whatever, you'll

(25:01):
see these are those they're kind of like the Sheer
cliffs and the like the trails that go up and
they're very precarious, very you know, really high up. And
basically you get to the top of this hiking loop
and then there's you can take a picture right at
the edge of the cliff that shows you all of
this one part of the Grand Canyon. So it's very,

(25:22):
very picturesque. And so they get to that spot they
stop to take the picture. Bob positions Donna on the
cliff's edge. There's one hundred and sixty foot drop behind her.
He goes back to mount his camera on his tripod,
but as he's turned away setting the timer, he hears

(25:44):
what he later describes as quote a small sound from Donna,
and when he turns back around, she's gone. So just
before noon, Bob comes running into the ranger station and
he eventually tells the ranger there's been a terrible accident.
His wife has fallen off a cliff. So the rangers

(26:04):
go out and they search for Donna at the Horseshoe
Mesa and they find her broken body on the rocks
below that lookout point. So bad so Donna Spangler's death
is ultimately ruled an accident. No one questions it. Hiking
in the Grand Canyon cliffs is obviously you know, those

(26:25):
those cliffs are obviously risky. And that same year, in
nineteen ninety three, there were already six other deaths that
occurred in the Grand Canyon.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
So it does happen so many.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
What is unusual, though, is that this is not the
first time Bob Spangler has tragically lost a family member.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Okay, so let's go back.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Bob Spangler was born in nineteen thirty three in Des Moines, Iowa.
He was adopted as a baby, never met a biological parents.
He was raised in Ames, Iowa, and by all accounts,
he had a normal childhood. He was a bright child.
The only issue was his temper, which when he got
into high school he channeled through playing football. And it

(27:09):
was in high school that he met a girl named
Nancy Stallman. They started dating in the basically in the
early fifties. They became high school sweethearts, and they married
after college in nineteen fifty five. So after they get married,
Bob and lessen the army, and then he gets discharged
and him and Nancy suttle down and start a family.

(27:32):
And in nineteen sixty one their son David is born,
and two years later their daughter Susan is born. So
Bob over the years works a number of different jobs.
He works at Honeywell's Camera and Instruments division. He works
in public relations, he works as a radio DJ, and
he actually even worked at a job where he helped

(27:53):
develop Sesame Street for PBS.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah. In the mid seventies, he takes a job as
the pr director of a Denver based nonprofit called American Waterworks.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
So he moves the whole family to.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Littleton, Colorado, which is where the Columbine shooting took place
years later, are you okay? Uh huh? But at this
point in the mid seventies, it was just a little
town in Colorado. But as life progresses, he he grows
tired of basically being a family man, and after twenty

(28:29):
years of marriage to Nancy, he starts cheating with a
younger secretary named Sharon. They and with that secretary he
starts hiking all the time and adventuring with her, especially
in the Grand Canyon. And basically, Bob and Nancy's marriage
is slowly falling apart.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, and it'll do that when you're cheating on your wife.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah. Actively, it's like it's almost like you're trying to
make it fallow right.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
But okay.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
So, then on the morning of December thirtieth, nineteen seventy eight,
fifteen year old Susan has a boyfriend named Tim who's sixteen,
and he was there at the Spangler's house the night before.
He was there a lot, and he shows up the
next morning and knocks on the front door, but no
one answers, so he goes back to and throws some

(29:21):
rocks at Susan's window, which is what he usually did
to try to get her attention to let him in
the house, but she doesn't answer come to the window,
so then he goes through the laundry room window to
get inside, which he had also done a bunch of times.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
So he goes upstairs.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
To Susan's room and he's surprised to see she's still
in bed, so he takes off his gloves and throws
them at her and says, hey, come on, you need
to get up, and she doesn't move, and then when
he gets closer to her body, he sees there's blood
on her back, and he runs across the hallway into
Susan's older brother, David's room to get help, and there

(30:00):
he finds David half in and half out of bed,
and David's been shot in the chest and is dead,
and Susan has been shot in the back and she's dead.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
So kid.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Oh, he's sixteen years old, and it's like horrible love
and her family, Oh my.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
God, and he just it's like I would think if
it's December thirtieth, they're on Christmas break, and so it's
they're probably going, you know, like it's so horrible and
such a horrible thing for him to have to witness.
So he runs, calls the police, obviously, and the Rapahoe
County Sheriff's Office arrives, and then when they look through

(30:39):
the house, they also find in the basement Nancy's body.
She's been shot and it looks like she's shot herself
in the head in their downstairs basement office.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, holy shit.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
But beside her body, she has a bullet wound in
her head, and next to her on the ground thirty
eight caliber pistol with a man's sock wrapped around the handle.
And in the typewriter that's sitting on the desk where
she's seated, there's a suicide note that's been typed up
in the typewriter and then initialed with her initial ed.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Oh, how convenient that it's not in her handwriting.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well so, but the thing Nancy had a neurological disorder
this is what Bob would tell the police later.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Where she could.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
She actually couldn't handwrite things, and so it was very
common for her to just initial things and she and
she typed correspondence all the time.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Okay, but what about the sock? Why would if you
were going to take your own life with a gun,
why would you wrap the gun in a sock?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
Good question, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
So you're I'm a detective. You are, You're getting.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Very good at this of all those stories we've read
to each other.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Thank you. I'm okay.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Sorry, So so, so Bob comes home from work to
find all that his house taped off in police tape,
and you know, police filled.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
So they have to take.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Him aside and explain to him what's happened, and he
seemed shocked and upset. He tells police he left for
work that morning, he was there all day, and then
he came home to find the sheriff's deputies in his house.
He does confide that he and Nancy had been having
problems and that they had recently separated, but that they
were working it out. Basically, that they were working it

(32:26):
out and they got they were back together. But he
does admit that they had gotten into a fight the
day before, to the point where he had to leave
the house to cool down. He went and drove around
and listened to a football game on the radio, and
went to the movies. But he tells authorities he's completely

(32:49):
shocked that Nancy would do this and that he's he
he's baffled. So Bob and Nancy's hands are both swabbed
for gunshot residue. Let me read my sources really quick,
So the Denver Post, the Arizona Sun, the New York
Daily News, and then source for me on this was there.

(33:10):
There's a Canadian true crime series called Crime Stories that's
on YouTube that pretty much every story we cover has
been covered by this by this Stories. And just the
last time, when I was talking so much about that
Nightline episode for the Chowchilla, I realized, like it was
the it was the kids that went through it as

(33:31):
adults telling their story, but that I probably should have
cited the writers for that show or the producers because
they did all the work to get that together. So
for this episode of Crime Stories, it was written by
Drew Karnwath, and then also Wikipedia and murder Pedia also,
so the reason I say that is because in this

(33:54):
series and crime stories, they have the people who worked
this case and who are at the scene at the time. Wow,
and yeah, it's amazing. And one of the people was
the was the the police photographer. So Bob, Bob had
nowhere to go. Basically, once they the authorities were done

(34:15):
talking to him at the scene, he had nowhere to go.
And so this police photographer is I think it's kind
of a small town. So he went home with the
police photographer. Yeah, and just so he had somewhere to stay,
like for the night, because obviously he can't go back
into the house. And this police photographer is in this
series and says he was didn't seem upset or worried

(34:41):
or in any way in distress when he was at
his house, like once he was away from the scene
and from the people that were questioning him. And hey,
look that could also We've talked about this where it's
like you make those judgments and it's like the behavior
does not indicate one thing or the other.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Everyone breathes differently.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
However, he could be in shock, he could be completely dissociated.
His entire family's been murdered. But the photographer was creeped
out by the lack of any any kind of like
even seeming distressed.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
He said, he just seemed fine. That's which is been creepy.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, okay. So when those tests come back for gunshot residue,
there's none on Nancy's hands, but there is gunshot residue
found on Bob's right palm, And when the authorities bring
him in for questioning it again, he changes his story
and now he says that he had gone home, that

(35:39):
he went to the basement first, that he found Nancy,
that he saw the gun, he picked it up, he
stepped back and saw the whole picture, screamed, oh my god,
drop the gun and ran out and right. So with
that story change, of course, the police are like, like

(36:00):
more suspicious, but it puts into doubt any kind of like,
you know, chain of evidence that they're trying to put together.
And he was the legal owner of that gun, so
his prints being on the gun were easy.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
It's not a dismiss it's not an evidence to arrest him.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
Yet it's not enough.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Meanwhile, Nancy's family absolutely denies this murder suicide story. They're like,
she would she would have never hurt her children, She
would she had just sent out like the family Christmas
letter that was all about what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Next year in the future.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
It was not her. She didn't even like guns. She
was very nervous around guns. She never touched them. On
top of that, she wasn't the type. It was not
something that she would.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Do, of course, but.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
The type written suicide note with that signed initial did
match other correspondents that she'd sent to friends and family.
So then they give Bob two different polygraph tests by
two different separate private companies, and they both determine his
answers about his role in the murders to be inconclusive.

(37:13):
One of the guys actually told the investigator that he goes,
this guy is so wound up, we're never going to
get normal. We're never going to get normal results from him.
On January third, nineteen seventy nine, the Rapahoe County Corner
rules these deaths to be a murder suicide. That are
we're committed by Nancy Spanker.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Oh God, horror, family who are just horrified.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
So Bob has the bodies cremated almost immediately, of course,
and this guy, yes, it's.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Like step by step how to not how to look
guilty as.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Fuck, Yes, entirely, and how like when people think they're
masterminds something because they're smarter than everybody. So of course
the family is absolutely horrified. Then he goes on to
give a eulogy that they said was bizarre and tearless
and weird.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Oh my god, I want to see it's so bad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
So the case ends up just being closed and most
of the evidence is either returned back to Bob Spangler
or it's destroyed. Okay, So now, seven months after his
family is murdered, Bob Spangler marries Sharon, the woman that
he's having the affair, having the affair with. Yep, they

(38:33):
get married and they move back into the Spangler family home. Yes,
she's cool with that, apparently apparently, but then apparently the
neighbors were, like everyone was freaked out by it, like
just how is this even possible?

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (38:54):
When and when?

Speaker 1 (38:55):
For real?

Speaker 2 (38:57):
When the authorities talked to Bob about it, he says
he doesn't live in the past. He's really good at
putting things behind him, and he's all about like making
a new start and moving forward.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Congrat to fucking lash this dude, You way to go
so great at life.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
So basically him and Sharon spent the next nine years
hiking around Colorado, especially in the Grand Canyon. Basically they
hike so much Sharon eventually writes a book called On
Foot in the Grand Canyon. But as the years go by,
the marriage begins to strain, and after Bob's father dies,
his anger issues really come to the fore and Sharon

(39:35):
basically has an emotional downturn. They start fighting more and
more and Sharon can't shake the feeling that Bob is
quote out to get her, to the point where she
actually ends up calling the police and they go to
the house and they find her hiding in a closet
because she's so scared of him. So she ends up

(39:57):
leaving Bob and moving out of Littleton and a nine
teen eighty eight, they get divorced. So in nineteen eighty nine,
after this split, he decides to take out a singles
ad in the Denver Weekly and he gets a response
from a Denver woman named Donna Sundling, who's who we
started with. So Donna's at the time, she's fifty five.

(40:18):
She works as a bookkeeper for Warrior Oil Company. As
I said, she had five grown kids. She has five grandchildren.
She's been divorced since nineteen seventy four, and according to
her friend Carolyn, she told her she was ready to
take some risks in life. So she answers Bob's Bob's
ad and they immediately hit it off and fall in love.

(40:42):
And according to Carolyn, Donna's thrilled. She just loved him,
so within a year they're married. So on August eighteenth,
nineteen ninety, Bob convinces her to move with him to Durango, Colorado.
So basically they move down there by a Winnebago so
they can travel, and a of course, so they can
go hike in the Grand Canyon. Donna not only has

(41:05):
that fear of heights, but also she's at the time
suffering from vertigo, so when they hike together, they always
take not steep trails, they take the lower trails or
like ground level or whatever.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
They don't do anything dangerous.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
So they settle down in Durango, they start getting involved
in the community. Bob gets his part time job as
the country music DJ for the local radio station KRSJFM,
and he's well liked by his coworkers and by his listeners.
He has a natural charm in a charisma, and he
starts kind of building up some local fame. He gets

(41:41):
recognized around town. He's like, basically a local personality, got it.
And his boss at the time has this to say
about Bob. He says, the only complaint I ever had
about Bob was that he was too cheerful, too early
in the morning.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Monster.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
I mean, for real, stick with the assholes, everybody. I'm
telling you, cheerful people are up to something.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
I think we know this. Don't fall for it.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
They're psychopath So Donna's working as an aerobics instructor at
the Durango Sports Club. Then Bob starts refereeing soccer games
for the park and rec league. They're like and they're
being perfect, which we all know isn't real. So and
again it's not real here because by nineteen ninety three,
their relationship starts to get rocky and the cracks and

(42:33):
Bob's personality start to show. He starts talking. So basically,
the longer they live there and the more friends they have,
he actually does start talking about what happened to his family.
And this is the part that really really made me
sick to my stomach. He tells different people different stories.
He tells some people his son killed his wife and

(42:54):
daughter mm hm and then killed himself. He tells other
people that the three of them were killed in a
car accident together and that somehow he survived, like with
just a couple scratches. And then he even confides in
some people the quote unquote official story, which is that
his wife killed the family.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
That just shows how cocky he is.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
That he was openly even talking about it, but then
also lying. And it's almost like you can tell that
those are the other options he considered before he did
what he's right, He's like, maybe I can kill them
in a car accident. Maybe I can make the sound
look like he did it.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yes, And I think it's that thing of a truth
we like to call people's sociopaths and psychopaths or whatever.
But this is the person who does not have a conscience,
who does not these and these people exist in our world.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
It doesn't understand how other people even think. He can't
even wrap his head.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
No, he doesn't care. It's not interested. Other people are
things to him. It's objects to move around in the world.
So he gets what he wants. And this is the
kind of thing like if this podcast for all our
mistakes and all the things that we do wrong or whatever.
If there's anything that I hope to God that people
get from this podcast is that psychopaths are real and

(44:12):
they are among us in the world. And you can't
this idea that someone is a dj and nice therefore
he could never do a bad thing. We have to
stop thinking this way, please, it's we have to stop
thinking this way. Their brains don't work correctly there and
they don't have consciences.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Care tricking You're really good at it.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
They made a life study of tricking you. So they're
the mimicry. The things they do, the things they say,
it's learned behavior so that they can blend in and
so that they can then get what they want. And
the idea that a man would lie and say that
his son and that ultimately spoiler alert, that his wife

(44:55):
would kill the family. Is so disgusting and sickening and
self serving. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Okay, So that speech is over.
Now I'm telling you this story again. I wrote at
the end there are people in this world who do
not have a conscience and only act in their best interest.
Guilt free without a second thought. It's a fact. Learn it,

(45:16):
accept it, and get a necklace that says it. Not sure, I.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Get a necklace that says it.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
That's a rip off of your love it. Learn it,
love it, learn to levitate. Remember that one Yeah, you
said what do you want? How do you what do
you want to do this year with your That was
my birthday and I said, live it, love it, learn
to levitate, learned to levity. So this is a this
is a sidebar off that learn it, accept it, get
a necklace that says it. Okay, it's just so important.

(45:48):
Don't just because it's the thing. We all make this
mistake where I go, I would never do that, and
then I think because of that, that means somebody else
wouldn't do so, right.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Like someone's stupid because they trusted Ted Bundy. Where it's
like you don't understand that. Not only does that person
do everything in their power and learn how to make
you trust them, society does everything its power to also
tell you that you need to trust people and not
question people. And if someone's nice to you, you need
to be nice to them back.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, if you're the weirdo, if you go, oh, I
have a bad feeling about this person, goodbye.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
If you take time to learn to trust someone instead
of just immediately trusting people even if they're nice people,
that you're not fucking weird.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Yes, no, no, that you're that, that means it's a
good thing. If he tricked and rule right, he could
trick anybody.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
This is we just know this now is smarter than us.
Was smarter than us.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Annerl knew a bunch of shit and he tricked her.
That's the point of the stranger beside me. Stop making
me yell at you, explaining this to you so angrily
because we have nothing else to do in quarantine. Okay, okay.
So Bob and Donna Spangler's marriage is falling apart. They're
fighting more frequently, and Dona often finds herself trying to

(47:01):
appease Bob because, of course, he's a psychopath, so he
wants what he wants, and he's very good at getting hit.
He's very good at cajoling people, convincing, using his charm,
his charisma, or his anger to get his way. So
when Bob asked Donna to go hiking with him at
the Grand Canyon for Easter weekend, even though she has vertigo,

(47:22):
doesn't like hikes and doesn't like hiking and doesn't want
to go. He won't stop pressing her, and she doesn't
want to fight anymore, so she just relents and agrees,
which is not her fault because what the fuck else
this guy won't stop. Yeah, So essentially that explains why
she would go on this trip. She doesn't want to
go on to do a thing she doesn't want to do,

(47:43):
to be scared, to feel like she's at risk. It
doesn't explain why he'd ask her to, right, you know
what I mean? Why is that so important to him
to make her do a thing he knows for a
fact she doesn't want to do and isn't into it all.
So when he's question Bob tells the rangers that after
Donna's fall, he ran up to where her body was.

(48:06):
He washed the blood off of her face and covered
her with a tarp, and then went to get help.
So there's no eyewitnesses for this fall and there's no
one to corroborate how like the chronology he's saying.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Before getting help, he ran to the bottom of the
fucking cliff, yes, to check on her, which is one
hundred and sixty feet down to check on her, as
if he could check if her any aid, instead of
running to the fucking people who know how to take
care of shit.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, and you think that's the part you're going to
dislike the most, But it's not going to be because
nothing explains why. When Bob arrived at the ranger station
to alert them that his wife had just fallen off
a cliff, he got in line and waited patiently behind
a bunch of backpackers who were there to pay for
their permits. Yep, And he took his place in line

(48:56):
and waited until he got to the front to report it.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Explain how low my jaws dropped.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
It's it's all the way open, it's blow her ponytail,
that's how long, that's how big? You know. It's what
we're talking.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Who he's reminding me of in this instance is fucking
Michael Peterson from the Staircase. Yeah, you know, like over
dramatic but not dramatic enough in certain moments, and weird,
acting weird and reacting in a way that most people,
if they were actually in an emergency situation, wouldn't act.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
No, you're right though, that it's the vibe.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
It's hard not to the way we all ingest these
true crime stories and these documentaries and all the different
things we watch, it's very hard not to start recognizing
one thing to the other, these kind of connections and
these these personality types that are hard to believe exist,
and then you start seeing the behaviors and it's I

(49:54):
think it's part of why I'm so interested in it
because it is rare. We're talking about the part of
you know, like the part of crime that's that's so rare.
It's like the fucking luckness monster where it's like serial
killers are They're very, very few of them. This is
not the majority of crimes, the things that we talk about.
And the thing that makes it fascinating is that these

(50:16):
types of people are out there and the majority of
the psychopaths I think don't kill people, don't know com
murderers too, So it only come CEOs politicians and CEOs.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
You're right, yeah, they don't.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
They don't have that uh you know, that extra part
of them that's bloodthirsty or whatever.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
But but it is like, it's just absurd to think
that someone could could act that way, and it's scary,
and yeah, you start to question everyone around you right.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Sorry, that's sorry, but you're pretty suspicious on your birthday.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
So yeah that when I got to that part two,
I was just like, what, holy shit.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
So Donna's Sundling.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Spangler's fifty eight years old when she tragically falls to
her death. When they have the funeral, Bob immediately cremates
her body, doesn't wait for her family, her five children
and five grandchildren to get to town to have a
final viewing.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
You're like, a, you're a short term husband, and you
fucking make that decision that her children have to deal
with for the rest of their lives.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
It's such a huge red flag. And he doesn't wait
for them. And then he gave a eulogy that was
tearless and weird, they say. So he puts himself again
in the spotlight at his third wife's funeral and doesn't
say anything that makes anyone feel better, just to you know,

(51:50):
like for himself.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
So after Donna's tragic death, Bob Spangler then becomes the
face of hiking safety. No, yeah, yes, so he actually
even makes a few TV appearances and does newspaper interviews
as the grieving husband advocating for safety along the trail.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Oh, yes, is there a video of it? Did you
watch video of it?

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I didn't see a video of it, but you might
be able to find some. In one interview, he tells
the Associated Press quote the people that visit the Grand
Canyon simply forget how spectacularly dangerous it can be. He
gains national recognition for this campaign, while he still continues

(52:35):
to hike the canyon trails. But this grieving husband image
doesn't last long because in July of nineteen ninety four,
so it's about a year later, Sharon, his second wife,
comes back into the picture. She comes to Durango for
a visit, and so she's fallen on hard times. She

(52:56):
had gone through a breakup, she'd had some mental issues.
So at first she moves back into Bob's house as
like a border, and she's paying him rent. But then
soon they reunite and get back together and they're involved again.
But three months later, on October second, nineteen ninety four,

(53:17):
Bob comes home from work to find Sharon unresponsive with
a bottle of tailan all beside her. Another no, so
he calls an ambulance, but she dies from what authorities
determined to either be purposeful or accidental drug overdose. She's
only fifty two years old at the time. Of course,
it turns out good for Bob. He no longer has

(53:39):
to pay spousal support to her. So when news of
Sharon's death reaches Donna Sunling's family, they immediately call authorities
to report Bob Spangler has had another wife die. So
the Arapaho County Sheriff's office decides to reopen the nineteen
seventy eight Spangler family murder and take a second look

(54:00):
at all the evidence. The first thing they notice is
Nancy Spangler's suicide note is very atypical because most people
who are writing a note do not write that they're
about to do all the things that they're about to
do and list them out in detail in the know.
That's very uncommon. And also Bobb had told police that

(54:22):
Nancy had a neurological disorder that caused her to have
to type her correspondence. They then find all these canceled
checks that Nancy filled out in full and wrote her
full name and the full check, and she clearly had
no problem handwriting things, So that whole thing where she
could only sign an initial because she simply couldn't write anymore?

(54:44):
Was they immediately that's doubt is cast onto that as well.
Then they're thinking, if Bob's claim is true that Nancy
couldn't hold a pen long enough to write her full name,
how did she hold a gun long enough?

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Great question? To murder?

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah, two people hit her own children upstairs and then herself.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Wow. So then they start.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Looking at the crime scene photos and they see, first
of all, they notice that the bullet wound is in
the front of her head, and also, based on the
amount of gunshot residue that's on her forehead, they realize
that the gun must be at least six inches away

(55:30):
from her head when it was fired, which would mean
that it's as opposed to the typical spot where someone
would hold a gun up. It's I'm doing this. This
is another visual aspect, but essentially it's as if she
held the gun as far forward in front of herself
and shot that way, which they say is almost unheard of,

(55:53):
just not doesn't happen. Basically, everything once they re examined,
and everything points away from suicide and to murder. Meanwhile,
Bob is still in Durango and he stays there for
more years after Sharon's death, and then in June of
nineteen ninety eight, he moves to Erwina, Pennsylvania, telling friends

(56:16):
and coworkers he's moving to connect with a woman he
met online. But he's back two months later, so that
didn't work out. He's now he's in Grand Junction, so
he doesn't move. It's three hours south of Durango. He
doesn't move back to Durango, and he moves to Grand Junction.
He joins the local theater, Oh God, because he loves

(56:39):
he loves to perform, and he reconnects with an old friend,
a fifty three year old woman named Judy Hilty, and
soon they're living together. But this whole time, the Rapahoe
County Sheriff's office is watching him and has their eye
on him because they're slowly trying to build a case
and they know now that he has this new in

(57:00):
his life, so that they're on a clock. In January
of nineteen ninety nine, the Shares connect with other investigators
from the FBI. So because Donna's death happened on federal ground,
the FBI is involved, so they're.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Talking the sheriffs.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Our Rapahoe County sheriffs are talking to the FBI, the
US Department of the Interior, National Park Service, the Arizona
Assistant US Attorney. So there's tons of different factions that
are involved in trying to analyze and solve these cases
and crimes, and they're trying they're basically all trying to
work together to assemble all everything that they know about

(57:41):
him and his history and everything. Meanwhile, Bob's now sixty
seven years old and in August of two thousand, he's
in rehearsal for a play and all of a sudden,
he blinks and can't remember his lines and like has
kind of like a weird moment. So he goes to
the doctor because he's also been he's had weird problems

(58:02):
with this coordination. His vision has been failing, he's having
a hard time concentrating. He finds out that he has
terminal brain cancer, so he tells Judy about it. So
they decide to get married because his you know, the
prognosis is not good for him. So on September one,
two thousand, Bob Spangler marries his fourth wife. So Bob

(58:26):
tells everyone about his cancer and he starts basically he's
pulling people aside at work. He's telling his friends, you know,
I have terminal brain cancer. He's also starting to write
letters to people explaining what he's going through. So there's
a woman that was friends with Bob who had been
interviewed by the authorities about him, and she gets one

(58:49):
of these letters, and so she contacts the sheriff's office
to let them know that Bob basically has terminal cancer.
So the thinking now is that he's going to want
to confess to his crimes because basically, maybe why wouldn't
he Yeah, yeah, okay. So the lead investigator, Paul Goodman,

(59:10):
he decides that he's just going to open He's going
to start a conversation with Bob and see if he
can't kind of play on what he thinks might be
a conscience to start to say, hey, this might be
a good time to start telling us some stuff that
you haven't been telling us. Basically, he says that quote
he told Goodman told the Denver Post quote we knocked

(59:30):
on his door. He didn't seem surprised. It was strange.
He did seem like he was expecting us. There was
no reaction. He just said, oh hello. So the first
day of questioning lasts like four hours, and they ask
Bob about all three incidents, the deaths of Nancy David
and Susan Donnis, followed the Grand Canyon, and about Sharon's overdose,

(59:51):
and it's actually super genius. They talk about this in
crime stories because the FBI did a profile on him
and they said, if he's a true psychopath, that what
they need to do to get him to open up
is to play up his importance. So they're basically saying,
we need you're so fascinating. You've done all these things.
We need to study you. You need to tell us

(01:00:14):
what you've done and how you did it so that
we can study you and learn from you. And they
actually set up a room and made it look like
there's a full on task force like trying to crack
the case. And they said that he walked in and
immediately loved it. They could tell that he was just
he loved the idea that he was there to educate them. Yeah,

(01:00:36):
and so basically Bob tells them they're quote naming one
too many. When they when they lay out these are
all the crimes we're looking at that we think you're
involved with, he says, there's one too many. So basically
he indicates that he's taking response responsibility for two out
of the three incidents, but not confirming anything with an

(01:00:59):
outright confession. So they take a break and they say
we'll come back tomorrow and talk some more. And in
this second interview, that's when Bob Spangler finally admits that
he murdered his first wife, Nancy, and he murdered his children,
David and Susan Spangler in nineteen seventy eight. He says
the day of the murders, he brought Nancy down into

(01:01:22):
the basement of their little tin Colorado home, sat her
in a chair and tells her he has a Christmas
surprise for her God, and sits her down and tells
her to close her eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
That's awe.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
And then he had already hid in the gun in
the basement, so when she closes her eyes, he pulls
it out and shoots her in the head. Fuck. Yeah,
he had already gotten He says, he had already gotten
her to initial a blank piece of paper, and then
he typed up that note that was supposed to be
a quote unquote suicide note afterward that he left in

(01:01:56):
the typewriter, making it look like she's sitting at the
desk writing this. So then he goes upstairs. He goes
into Susan's bedroom first and shoots her while she's sleeping.
Then he goes into David's bedroom, and David has heard
at least one of the gunshots, and so he's getting
up out of bed and that's why he's shot in

(01:02:17):
the chest because he knows it's his father and is
basically half out of bed when Tim, Susan's boyfriend finds him. Yeah,
so he didn't This is really terrible part. But David
didn't die right away, so Bob Spangler suffocated him with
a pillow. Yeah, he admits to all of this, and

(01:02:43):
basically he tells investigators he killed them because he was
tired of family life and his girlfriend didn't like children,
so he thought killing his entire family was quote easier
all the way around.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Oh why God.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
So then they move on to Bob's third wife, Donna Sunling,
and at first Bob is hesitant to confess that he
murdered her because he's afraid her kids will file a
civil suit against him.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
Fucking asshole.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Yeah, So, but they get him to do it, and
he basically describes planning out the whole scheme first from
picking the perfect spot along the trail.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
To the moment that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
They stood face to face at the edge of that
cliff before he pushed her off and into the Grand Canyon.
But he yeah, so that he admits that entirely, which
is obvious of course, the way I told it. But like,
but up until that point, it was he had it
perfectly covered in every way.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
So you can think about her knowledge and her face
thing out close to his and her knowledge and heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
It just is what makes him such and a monster.
It's just it's that's something. It's what It's monstrous. He
does vehemently deny having anything to do with Sharon's death,
though he says that that was her either accidental or
intentional overdose. One of the agents on the case says
that Bob quote told our investigators during the confession it

(01:04:22):
was his opinion that he was a model citizen and
a good human being except during two days of his
life when he did something terrible. He can say he
was a good citizen, but his actions on two days
of his life took away thousands of days of the
lives of four people. I mean, And that kind of
rationale is like also so of that that clearly a

(01:04:48):
person whose brain isn't working the way everyone else's brain works.
Where it's like you've actually rationalized it down to just, oh,
it's just two days and only two days I was
bad and the rest I was great, where it's like I, no, I.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Disagree, it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
When Spangler's confession spreads across the state, many of his
friends and acquaintances are shocked. They believe him to be
such a nice man who could never do anything like that.
So police arrests Bob Spangler on October third, two thousand.
He appears in federal court. Three days later. He pleads
guilty to first degree murder. He sentenced to life in prison.

(01:05:25):
And they say in the Crime Stories episode, when he
walks into the courtroom, it's like he's walking on stage.
He has a big smile on his face, he winks
at his current wife what and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
He never Michael Peterson. It's so Michael Peterson.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
He doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
He never looks at any of the victims' families or
any of his you know, extended family or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
A photo of him real quick, what's his last name?

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Spangler? He looks like any like a shop teacher, like
he's a bald guy with a white beard.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
Oh yeah, he's a total shop teacher, right. Yeah, he
is the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Kind of person you could see him playing up the
role of Hey, it's me, Yeah, I'm the good guy,
I'm the Rampa features a little bit yeah oh god, big, big,
weird smile with dead eyes. While in prison, Donna's kids
do file a civil suit against Bob, just as he

(01:06:19):
suspected they would. Thank God. They claimed that their mother's
murder hurt them financially and that Bob and his current wife,
Judy are responsible for compensating them, and that suit was
settled in April of two thousand and one. So nine
months after his conviction. On August fifth, two thousand and one,
Bob Spangler dies in prison at the age of sixty eight.

(01:06:41):
And that is the story of the family annihilator and
serial killer Bob Spangler. That fucking asshole gets to die
of natural causes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
What a piece of shit?

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
And have I mean just to have chance after chance.
He's like John List times five, craziest.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
But yeah, wow, the fact the idea that two days
in my life I was bad, but otherwise I'm not
a bad person.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
I was a model citizen.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
That's not how that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Fucking works, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
The majority of us aren't doing that ever any days.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
But also, let's take let's actually pull those two days
and really take a look at them, because that's a
matter what we're talking about here. It's like, that's what
we're talking about when we tell these horrible stories where
it's like this behavior isn't normal, and it isn't like
it it's just like this is it's so beyond the

(01:07:39):
pale that that that one day there it wasn't just
those his own family's lives in nineteen seventy and he
took away, but all the surrounding family and friends and
loved ones really and poor Tim the boyfriend, who you know,
like is never going to stop being affected by that day.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
The families that the son and daughter would have had
and affected, and the people they would have made their
lives better, and you know what they would have done
with their lives. You take all of that away, and
the mom and the you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Know, it's not a twenty it's not just this twenty
four period that you made some mistakes in.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Yeah, yeah, you don't get so, yeah, well, great job,
all right, So the story I'm doing. Got brought up
in a minisod I think this week or last week,
and it's a story I'm obsessed with him, have been
following since it happened there or three years ago. And

(01:08:38):
when I found out you hadn't heard about it, I
wanted to wait until it got solved. But when I
found out you didn't, he hadn't heard about it, I
thought maybe so many people hadn't. It's such a solvable
case and it drives me fucking crazy. So this is
the Delphi murders, Okay, I mean this is my fucking
one of my rabbit hole read it late at night

(01:08:58):
stories that I can't stop thinking about. So I got
info from Indie Star, a Medium article by Julie Fiddler,
and Who's a true crime blogger, the Indie Channel dot
com article by Katie Cox, Investigation Discovery. It's on all
of the channels. There's so much you can read about.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
A website called Theorem Fact Reddit, Abcnews dot com. And
then there's two seasons of two different podcasts about this
that give you so much information, and they interview the
family members of the murder victims. One's called Down the
Hill and one's called Stand of the crime and they're

(01:09:40):
both really good. And then Murder Squad did an episode
about it. It's like an in pursuit with John Walsh
about it. And then Friend of the Family.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
The true crime investigative journalist and author James Renner has
a YouTube, like a bunch of YouTube videos called Virtually
Detective that you can watch, and he goes to Delphi
and like studies what happened. So I'm gonna tell you
about the town of Delphi. It's about seventy miles outside
of Indianapolis, and it's really rural. It's surrounded by you know,

(01:10:13):
cornfields and farmland. It's got a population of under three thousand,
so it's very small, and it's the kind of place
where everyone knows everyone and it's close knit. It's very safe,
very little crime. And the town has one main street
that goes from the jail to the library, and it's
surrounded by like beautiful nature and hiking trails and nature

(01:10:37):
walks that are really popular with people who.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Are into that and the locals.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
So Monday, February thirteenth, twenty seventeen, it's February, in the
middle of February, but it's unseasonably warm, and beautiful out.
It's a sunny day and the local kids are unexpectedly
given the day off of school, so they're stoked. And
two of those kids are best friends, Abigail Williams who's thirteen,

(01:11:03):
and Liberty German who's fourteen, and those gals go by
Abby and Libby. So the girls are classmates and they're
small eighth grade class. They're on the volleyball team together.
Abby was an only child and lived with her mom
and her cat, Bongo, and she's close with her grandparents.
Her hobbies are horseback riding. She loves to read. She's

(01:11:24):
really smart. She's quiet and shy, but warms up easily
and makes friends easily. Just this sweet, little, lovely girl.
Libby was the youngest of three girls, raised by her
grandparents in Delphi. Like her whole family is from the
area on both sides. And while Abby was kind of
shy and reserved, Libby was this like outgoing, adventurous girl.

(01:11:48):
And she's kind thoughtful person. She's stuck up for kids
when they were getting bullied. You know, she played sports
all year round. She had just gotten into welding, which
I think is rad fourteen year old girl, I know, right, Yeah,
Libya was described as wiise beyond her years by her family,
and actually, at fourteen, she's already taken classes at Purdue University,

(01:12:12):
which is nearby at fucking wow teens, so clearly she's
really smart. Both of the girls play the saxophone in
the school band. They loved arts and crafts, they love photography.
They're both avid sports players, and they're also both into
true crime and like they talk about pursuing careers in
forensic science one day, so I think they were into
like CSI and stuff, just like you know. One of

(01:12:33):
my worries about having kids is that I'll have a daughter,
a teenage daughter who was like me. But if I
could be promised to girls or if I could be
promised a teenage daughter that was like either of these girls,
I would fucking do it immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
They were just like, good, please don't do it, Please
don't do it. Okay, They're like they're like Nora, your niece.
There's just like these sweet, enthusiastic, smart kind people.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
That which means those parents busted ass every single day
to do right by those kids, even when it was
the hard thing to do and even when it was
not the fun things.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
Right, and their grandparents too, were just you know, they
were amazing everyone. So back to that Monday, the girls
don't want to stay inside during this beautiful day with
the day off of school, so they decide to visit
the Delphi Historic Trails to take some pictures. You know,
they ask their families can we go, And it's a
popular hiking area where the girls have been before in

(01:13:28):
the past, so them going alone isn't a big deal,
you know. And they're thirteen and fourteen, so they're in
that stage of like becoming teenagers but still kind of young.
So around one o'clock that day, Liddy's older sister, Kelsey,
drops the girls off at the entrance to the trail
that's part of the Delphi Historic Trail system, which runs
through the valley of the Wabish River in northwest central Indiana,

(01:13:49):
and the trail the girls around that day, it's, you know,
kind of a small trail, two people wide. It's enveloped
by trees, but it's the middle of winter and it
leads to an eight hundred and fifty foot long abandoned
wooden railroad bridge called the Monon High Bridge. The old
railroad bridge is one of the tallest bridges in Indiana
at sixty three feet high. It sits several stories above

(01:14:12):
Deer Creek, So that's just like rushing a little river below.
And it thinks like stand by me, you know, when
they have to run across the railroad track.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Yeah, it's totally just like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
And actually, I think I want to send you some
pictures while we're doing this so you can have an idea. Yeah. Yeah,
So because it was built in eighteen ninety one and
abandon in nineteen eighty seven, the wood at the bridge
is rotting. It's disintegrating on a lot of places, so
crossing it takes some time, and you have to really
pay attention to where you're stepping because some of the

(01:14:41):
wood chunks are just completely rotted. You don't want to
step on them. And if you go on YouTube, you
can find people filming them crossing the bridge and it
does look really scary and treacherous.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Well, because there's also no sides, right, that's really scary.
There's no there's it's just the tracks and the bridge.
There's absolutely nothing that you you could put your hand
against exactly, there's no sides. Yeah, it's so stand by me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
I feel like it's something if you were, you know, younger,
and you'd grown up crossing that bridge, you wouldn't be
scared of it as you and I would be, you know,
And if you have a fear of heights, it's not
something you'd want to cross. But it's a beautiful location
and the locals treasure the spot. And a little after
two pm, Libby posts a snapchat photo of Abby walking
across the deserted bridge. So there's no one else on it,

(01:15:27):
don't So that's two o'clock and we don't find out
about this until later. But at some point, a man
crossing the bridge alone behind the girls creeps them out
enough so that Libby starts secretly recording him. Okay, which
as women, we fucking understand what why one would do that,

(01:15:49):
you know what I mean? We don't know if they
had an encounter with him before that creeped them out,
so when he was crossing they started filming him. We
don't know if it was just the look of him
that creeped them out, but for some reason Libby starts filming.
That's her instinct. When Libby's father shows up at pickup
time to drive the girls home, he's not really worried
when they're not there yet, you know, thinking maybe they
were just running behind. He assumes that maybe they lost

(01:16:12):
track of time, but he starts to worry when there's
still no sign of them by four pm and calls
to Libby's cell phone don't get picked up, which is
not like her at all. So both families search for
the girls themselves before calling the police, and then later
that night was still no sign of the girls and
a large amount of people searching in the area for them.
The sheriff's office releases a statement to the press saying

(01:16:34):
there's no reason to suspect foul play or to believe
the girls are in any danger, but dozens of volunteers
look into until midnight, when the search is officially suspended
and some friends and family continue to search overnight, right,
which is like suspending that mean, I can't imagine what
the families were going through when the fucking search got
suspended at midnight for like a thirteen and fourteen year

(01:16:55):
old girl lost in the woods, right, you know? Yeah?
The next day is Valentine's Day and the search for
Libby and Abbey resumes, and around noon, a volunteer searching
at the back end of a piece of private property
spots two bodies.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Oh yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
The location is about fifty feet from the creek Deer
Creek and half a mile east of the bridge. The
next day, it's confirmed that the bodies found are those
of Abbey and Libby, and during a press conference after
their completed autopsies, the deaths are ruled homicides, and though
details on how the girls were killed are not made public,
and we still don't have any detail. There's so few

(01:17:35):
details about this case, so there's a ton of speculation.
Indiana State Police they won't say how they were killed,
but Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter calls the murders
quote the epitome of evil. It's not stated whether or
not there's DNA, although it's assume there is, and all
of that info is still not known, investigators saying that

(01:17:55):
they're holding some of the case details close to their
vest with the goal of having information that only the
killer would know when they finally arrest him. Right now,
it turns out that Libby's phone had been found with
the bodies of the girls, and so Indiana State Police
distribute a grainy photo that they say came from Livy's phone,
and it's actually a still from the video that she

(01:18:15):
started taking of the dude crossing the bridge. So it's
kind of grainy because it's kind of far away. Let
me send you that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
Ugh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Yeah, the photo is of a man who seems to
be falling behind the girls on the bridge. White man
has his hands in his pockets, his head is tucked down,
almost like he's not even aware of them, you know,
he's just walking across the bridge. But clearly there's a
reason Livy is filming and continues to film this guy he's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Wearing and yeah, sorry just to interject, yeah, please, when
you have your hands in your.

Speaker 3 (01:18:48):
Pockets, the the.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
What's it called body language experts say you're hiding something,
have something to hide.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
And it's like knowing how treacherous that bridges would if
you were really you wouldn't cross with your hands in
your pockets, you know what I mean. It's not a
natural walk when you're walking across a bridge like that.
He's wearing a bulky blue jacket like kind of like
a windbreaker, jeans, like a flat looking cap in either

(01:19:18):
a long brown shirt or some sort of fanny pack,
and it does look bulky like he has something in
his like his clothes don't fit properly, doesn't it right?

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Yes? Well, also, I didn't think that was a head.
I thought that was his hair, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Because it looks like it looks like that's a part,
Like he has a big part.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
Down the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Yeah, but I mean who knows anyway, Yes, who knows?
That's the problem is who's the fuck knows?

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Right, And so people start to speculate that one of
the girls must have started taking video of him. So
that freaks people out too, is that she even started,
like something is wrong with this person. And remember the
girls were interested in true crime, so the fact that
she started filming him is indicative of that. Police officially
named the man in the photos a person of in
trust in the murders, but don't give more context to

(01:20:02):
the image. So on February twenty second, law enforcement circulates
an audio recording from the video that was on Libby's phone.
Because remember's taking video, so the sound is really muffled
and it almost sounds like he saw her taking like
she stuffed the phone in her pocket and left video running. Yeah,
because she didn't want him to see that she was
doing that. And you can hear a man with a

(01:20:26):
deep voice kind of almost commanding say the words down
the hill. So officials say that Libby's a hero for
being able to tell to take stealthy video, despite the
fact that she must have been scared to even have
started taking video at all. And police indicate that they
have additional evidence from the phone and from what she did,

(01:20:49):
but that they don't want to release it because they
don't want to compromise any further trials. And so they're
thinking this audio recording and this fucking photo of a
fucking dude in the small town of India, Yes, is
going to catch the guy, you know what I mean? Sure,
I think everyone thought that. And so when no one's arrested,
Indiana State Police distributed the first composite sketch and a

(01:21:12):
description of a person of interest in July because it
still hadn't worked, and after they receive information from witnesses
who were in the area at the time of Abbey
and Libby's disappearance, they're able to make a sketch because
this isn't even like there's other people out that day hike.
It's not even that secluded. So right, the person of
interest is described as a white man between five foot

(01:21:33):
six and five to ten, weighing one hundred and eighty
to two twenty pounds, with reddish brown hair, and it
shows him wearing a flat cap and he's got to
go tee and.

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
Detectives say that the hat.

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
Sorry. The suspect becomes known as the Bridge guy, and
on Reddit they just call him Beiji as well. You'll
see it like that. So six months into the investigation
there are more than twenty five police agencies assisting the case.
Everyone in the small town of Delphi becomes suspicious of
each other, you know, every single face. They're trying to
find his face, and the fear in paranoia gets so

(01:22:05):
bad that the local county prosecutor has to specifically warn
residents not to harass, bother or accuse anyone. And they
have to have to say stop putting photos side by
side of the sketch because fucking everyone looks like him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
But this is the thing, like this is the thing
of these stories, like this is a town that two
little girls get killed. They people want something to come
of that, right, They want forward movement, They want obviously justice,
They like that idea that it's it's the intent is

(01:22:41):
so good, and the results of the mistakes of that
intent are so bad. Yes, and you know, which opens
the door into the entire other conversation. But it's like, yeah,
when you've got a town that's already emotionally charged, then
it can go wrong so easily.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
And it also can be said that when the police
agency gives such little information to go on, there's going
to be that's all people are going to do. They're
going to panic. So eight months after the murders, and
after having investigated more than twenty four thousand tips and
interviewing five hundred people, police finally name a quote person

(01:23:21):
of interest and announced that he's in custody. So, thirty
one year old convicted sex offender named Daniel Nations is
arrested on September twenty fourth on a charge of weapons
possession in Colorado, where he lives. And Nations also has
an expired Indiana license plate which ties him back to
the surrounding area of Delphi. So there's a lot of

(01:23:41):
similarities between Nations and the composite sketch released by police.
Let me send you, Can I send you that?

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Please? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
Yeah, very similar.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
Right, downturn mouth, the goatee big.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Eyes wide said eyes. I mean it looks to say
him yes except for the ears. Sorry, yeah, totally okay.

Speaker 1 (01:24:05):
So they also believe that Nations, who was allegedly threatening
people with a hatchet on a hiking trail in Colorado,
it might be also the same person who's shot and
killed a bicyclist on that same trail at a different time.
So he's definitely a dude who fucking threatens people with
a hatchet on a trail, and he might also be
someone who killed someone on a fucking hiking trail. So

(01:24:26):
Nations has a lathy lengthy criminal history. He's required to
register as a sex offender in two thousand and seven
after being convicted of indecent exposure for exposing himself whilst
sitting in his car in a parking lot and later
flashing a woman and child. In previous years, he is
when he's stationed at Camp La June. He's charged for
indecent exposure four times, charged once while in Spartanburg, South Carolina.

(01:24:52):
In twenty sixteen, he's convicted of public indecency in Indiana
for fondling someone in a public place. He's caught spine
on women and masturbating in a woman's restroom at a
gas station. He's convicted a domestic abuse in Indiana, a
number of other minor convictions, and Nation's wife says, so
he's married, and she says he didn't have access to

(01:25:12):
a car in the day of the murders, and that
the day after, when the girl's bodies were found, she
had driven him to his weekly sex offender check in,
so kind of giving him an alibi. But according to her,
they watched the news coverage of Abby and Libby's murder,
which is also a red flag if someone's too interested
in it. And while she's like, yeah, it totally looks

(01:25:34):
like the composite sketch, but he doesn't own any of
those clothing that it wouldn't match. And in January twenty eighteen,
he's transferred to Indiana's custody for failure to register as
a sex offender. And everyone's like, this is fucking it.
Do you want to do you need rent it?

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
Yeah, this is the problem. It literally looks exactly like
him in that picture. And then when you go backwards,
because there's not enough detail in this picture, but with
the detail that there is there, I can see it
exactly like.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
It looks so musical, Like he looks too much like him. Yeah,
don't scroll too much because there's more.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
No I want, I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
So everyone's like, he got transferred to Indiana. Fucking custody.
This is fucking it. They finally caught the killer, but
in early February twenty eighteen, authorities say that Nations is
no longer considered considered an active person of interest in
the Delphi murders. So you think that might mean there,
it might be in some kind of a DNA comparison,

(01:26:37):
And they don't.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
They don't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
They don't know us, And it's almost like, give us
a little more information, which I think is one of
the frustrations about this case. And I don't want to
talk shit on the investigators. I'm sure they have a
rhyme and reason and hopefully are really good at their job,
but it's almost like it's not enough information. But he's
not he's not taken off the suspect list, and he's
not ruled out officially.

Speaker 2 (01:26:58):
Oh he's not. He's not.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
He's just not a person of interest right now. And
so for the town of Delphi, who thought that justice
was about to be served, it's a huge blow and
they don't get a good reason as to why he's
not anymore. In January twenty nineteen, here's another suspect. Forty
six year old Charles Andrew Eldridge is arrested during an
undercover sting operation in Union City, Indiana. He thought he

(01:27:20):
was going to meet a thirteen year old girl for sex,
but is greeted by an undercover cop instead, and following
his arrest, he's charged with two counts of child molestation,
one count of attempted child molestation, and one count of
child solicitation. He becomes a person of interest in the
Delphi case after his mugshot is aired on the news
and tipster's call in and they're like, y'all, he fucking

(01:27:41):
looks exactly like the sketch. So let me know, you said, Nancy,
I am, this is a big problem with it is
like everyone fucking so now look at this one. It's
like a different direction, but it does look like he
kind of looks like Chunk from Bagoonies. But also but
he looks just like the sketch, right, and he also

(01:28:03):
he looks like the first guy.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
I mean, that's crazy because it's it's very similar and
also in the picture of the actual man, which also
is not We don't know for a fact that that
is what if that was just some guy out walking,
that's exactly right.

Speaker 3 (01:28:18):
Well they don't.

Speaker 1 (01:28:19):
They didn't tell us this. Okay, it'll get worse, so
it always does.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
It's just amazing because when you have very little like
when the thing when the piece of evidence where it's
like it could be this guy, but it's vague enough,
then you're just trying to retrost.

Speaker 1 (01:28:36):
To go on yeah, and someone on Reddit it's always like,
you know, every man in the Midwest can look like
this fucking sketch, right, you know what I mean? And
like that outfit he's wearing crossing the bridge is what
everyone fucking owns.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
It's not interesting and clearly is probably a choice wearing
a hat, having everything kind of obscured like the output
is perfect, and having your head tucked down.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
Or is it because because maybe he just went there
for a fucking hike that day.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
It wasn't a known day off of school, so it's
not like he went there looking for children. It was
a knowing that yeah right, yeah, yeah, It's just there's
so many questions about this, so so they're like, he
looks just like the Bridge guy. He's got. This dude
has a reputation Eldridge for being a pervy, fucking weirdo
by regularly posting stories to his multiple Facebook pages about

(01:29:24):
missing children, sex crimes, murders, wanted killers, and.

Speaker 3 (01:29:28):
Even sorry, wait, no, I feel a little bit of tech.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
We are not middle aged creep azoid men. It's different.
That's okay, don't you think, Yes, it technically is. But
then at the same time, that's the kind of thing
where like, oh, that would mean we're suspect number one
if anything happened near us, because we have the same
I get that, But.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
We're doing it as with an angle of solving these
crimes and fixing it. And I think, like you can
read the text and know that if someone's stoked and
getting off on this shit, he even I mean, he
even posts stories about Abbey and Libby days after their
bodies are found. So he's posting shit. Okay, hold on,
let me tell you one more thing about him before
you say anything. He openly admits to FBI and local

(01:30:15):
and state police that to having multiple sexual encounters with
miners under the age of thirteen, which I'd like to
point out, isn't a sexual encounters fu no rape and malustepia.
It's not called it sexual encounters. But they don't have
any concrete evidence that links him to the murders. Okay,
so like you gotta hope DNA you got it, and
there's a multiple other suspects. I'm not getting into because

(01:30:38):
it's all similarly like vague shit and you just hope
there's DNA that they're testing, right, you know, Yep, about
two years after the murders, investigators have interviewed over a
thousand people, including possible witnesses from that day, suspects, anyone
who may have information about suspicious activity on the day

(01:30:58):
that the girls went missing, but nothing has led to
an arrest or a definitive suspect.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
And it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
There's there's cases that have less evidence than this that
gets solved quicker, right, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
We have I think everyone was like, this will be
solved immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
I remember when it happened and it was like, thank
god that girl took video, but it's not working. So
on April twenty second, twenty nineteen, so you're you know,
this more than an area. It's fucking July No it's August.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
It's August.

Speaker 1 (01:31:27):
What is happening? So well?

Speaker 3 (01:31:31):
Oh right.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
April twenty second, twenty nineteen, Indiana State Police hold another
press conference, and this time they announced they're moving in
a new direction in this case, like this shit's not working,
Let's try something else. First, they release a brief video
clip of the bridge guy walking along the bridge, so
that the photo that they have of him, it's just
still of the video which is really grainy and hard
to see, and clearly it was from far away. They

(01:31:53):
release it as a one second video, which I'm gonna say,
which I'm gonna send you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:57):
Ooh, okay, hold on, oh you just heard you just
heard it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Sorry, okay. So they released the one second video of
him walking on the bridge, the same video that got
the still from His gait is weird, and they acknowledge
that because he's walking along the wooden slats. So they
they put it out there to get people someone who
knows this man and knows the way he walks. They
put it out there so someone will identify him. But

(01:32:27):
he's walking different because he's on the bridge, so they
you wouldn't identicy like I immediately identify him because of
that which is weird. And he's moving fast as if
he had walked this path many times. Right, He's just
fucking moving along on this bridge that you and I
would be slowly taking little steps over and then. So
this guy, James Renner, a friend of the family. He's

(01:32:48):
the investigative journalist and an author. He's you know, Billy
Johnson type. I'm sure they are best friends. He wrote
the book True Crime Addict. He said he and I
were messaging on it because I know he has been
involved in this case. And he said, quote to me,
he said, I went out to the bridge when I
visited the family, and I couldn't even step out onto it.

(01:33:10):
He said. You don't get a sense of the scale
from the photos. It's so high and so old. You
if you look at him in the photos and video,
he is striding across it, and that tells me he's
crossed that bridge a lot, probably since he was a kid.
He's not scared of falling. He's a local. That's what
James told me.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
Yes, Andy's walking with his hands in his pockets, which,
aside from the body language, is also difficult. It makes
balancing twice as hard. Yeah, so he's going across it.
The first thing I think is he's trying to he's
trying to present an image of a casual, not dangerous.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
Right person, and the girls know and I guess supposedly
there's audio because they did let the family listen to
the audio. More of the audio that it's a dead
end at the end of the bridge, like you're it's
trespassing if you keep hiking.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
So the girls were stuck at the end of.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
The other end of the bridge, probably didn't want to
cross and pass him, all right, So that's what James said.
And then so police also reason release another piece of
the audio. So you just heard the down the hill
part that they released earlier, and everyone's like, oh my god,
this is exciting. We're going to hear his voice more
so someone's going to identify it. But all they release
is him before he says down the hill, he says guys,

(01:34:27):
and then it's so it's guys down the hill.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
So he addresses them, and so there's they don't tell
us what, but something about that command is meaningful to them,
And a lot of people speculate that maybe referring to
two young girls as guys is like a military thing
or a you know, a teacher, something a teacher would say,
like who, And I asked Vince, like, hey, you know

(01:34:56):
from you he's from the Midwest, from Michigan, like who
who addresses women as guys?

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
There? It's not really, it doesn't seem like a normal
thing to me. And he, you know, kind of speculated,
but who the fuck knows. But it means something. It
means something. We're supposed to find something in it. Huh,
you know what I mean, like what your dad will
tell you guys, guys. I feel like your dad would guys. Yeah,
that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
It's it's kind of like, well, this is wild as
per Yush, wild speculation. That's purely it's purely called podcasting, purely,
purely uneducated and obviously this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
Is the first time, so I'm dying to know your
opinion because of it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
It feels to me like in the way he's trying
to present himself as non threatening, basically talking to them
like a like a gym teacher, like you're saying, or
like guys down the hill.

Speaker 3 (01:35:52):
He's not saying ladies.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
He's not addressing their gender or what he thinks that means.
It's yeah, it's almost like business as usual or like
you knew this was coming almost. I mean, who knows,
it's got it's so weird, and so.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
Maybe it's liked him a question before that, You're right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
They had some kind of interactions. So he's saying, yeah,
it's me again.

Speaker 3 (01:36:16):
You guys, like, let me tell you my theory in
a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
You know, But can I just say, this reminds me,
this is such a cuff links conversation. It was totally
the cuff links from All be Gone in the Dark,
because everything has meaning when it's when it's an unsolf
case and a question mark, everything needs to be poured
over and then who knows, it's just opinion. It's all opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Yeah, but like someone could be right and the more
you I guess that's what really maybe one of the
reasons I thought of doing this case finally, even though
I really didn't want to do it because it's so
awful until it was solved. But when there is a
part and All Begone in the Dark on the HBO
series where they blend they show this the witness sketch
of the like the Salia Ransacker, like one of the

(01:37:02):
sketches of him, and blend it into that time period
of Joseph DiAngelo, and it never hit me and tell
them how much it fucking looks like him. I always
thought how bad the sketches were, and then they did that,
and I was like, how did nobody see this? And go,
that's the guy that's my brother in law's best friend
that I saw at a barbecue, that's the guy I

(01:37:23):
used to work with.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
How to no one do that?

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
And it's like because it was town's over and so
no one would ever see it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:29):
But also he made that transition, which is another very
psychopathic saying of basically morphing for use. So when he
was the Vicelia ransacker, he looked different than when he
was later a cop in Auburn or you know, a
mechanic in Citrus Heights or whatever, like, he looked different

(01:37:51):
throughout the years, like entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
But at the same time, I think that if enough
people had seen that sketch as they can now because
of the Internet and maybe because of this podcast, someone
will someone a few towns over and by Salia will say, holy, okay,
that kind of looks like them. I'm just gonna get
clear my mind and call it in. I'm gonna came
maybe except.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
For let's go back to the and Rule Ted Bundy
story where there was a knew after a bug Lake
Samammich they knew gold bug guy named Ted, and she
was like, nah, so I feel like it's that. It's
the when we have these ideas pictures in our head
of who people are.

Speaker 3 (01:38:28):
That stuff is too out of bounds and insane.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
You just can't imagine someone would do something. Yeah, that's
a great Yeah, great point. Anyway, they also released a
second sketch. So there's a new sketch of the suspect,
and it looks like a completely fucking different person than
the first sketch.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Wow, that's out in the first video. I watched that
comes a second and it's entirely different.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
It's completely different, right, So it's a much younger face.
It's a completely different person. It looks like it could
be this guy's son, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
But also who is the second sketch from, so so
it confuses everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
Indiana State Police Sergeant Kim Riley said the new sketch
was not another take on the man in the video,
but was another person entirely, and this person depicted in
the first sketch was not presently a person of interest
in this investigation. So the first sketch with the goatee
that everyone who you know got questioned look like, isn't
someone to even fucking consider. Turns out, but they don't

(01:39:27):
tell us why this person is now the person to
focus on, And they don't tell us why they released
that first sketch and why he's not part of it anymore, right,
you know, which kind of drives people crazy. Understandably, yes, entirely.
So they update the description of the suspect to be
a man between eighteen and forty years old, but they
say that he could appear younger than he actually is,

(01:39:48):
have a younger face. They say, quote, we don't want
to say the old sketch is not involved. We just
want to say that this new sketch is more indicative
of what we're looking for at this time. So like,
everyone like, are there two people involved? What are you
talking about? And there's a bunch of controversy, of course,
because a lot of people feel like time is wasted,
had been wasted, because they're searching for the wrong fucking

(01:40:10):
face altogether. And it turns out that the new sketch
was actually made days after the girls were found, So
it's the original sketch, but it took this long to
actually release it, which upsets people obviously. Yeah, and the
last thing investigators reveal is that they believe the man
who murdered Libby and Abbey currently or previously lives in Delphi,

(01:40:31):
this tiny town of three thousand people, or works in
town or visits on a regular basis. So it's a
fucking local because a lot of people are like, what's
right by this? The hoo's your Heartland Highway, So he
could have been a trucker everyone of course, you know,
we go to trucker. But apparently this bridge is really
hard to find, Like even people who are from town

(01:40:54):
and people write about on a Reddit didn't know what
existed or go to try to find it and can't.
It's a local fucking place, right, so maybe you grew
up there and moved away when you were young, who
the fuck knows. And this, of course terrifies a small
town in the families of the girls as well, knowing
that a murderer could live among them. You know, they
go to the grocery store and the fucking dude bagging

(01:41:15):
their groceries could be the murderer.

Speaker 2 (01:41:18):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:41:20):
So all right, here's the There's tons of theories, there's
tons of little tidbits. The only one I'm going to
get into because I really like it and I think
it's interesting. I don't know if it has anything to
do with it is.

Speaker 3 (01:41:33):
Okay, there's this thing called geocashing. Yeah, do you know
what that is? I sure do. How do you know
about it? Because I didn't know about it?

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
For this is like one of the first interesting things
or things that I found of interest when the Internet
came out. Like I never cared about chat rooms. I
was toms were the weirdest. I teaics also message boards.
I was like, well, what do you post a stickt
note on a website? I don't get it, and you
don't know who you're talking to, and you don't know
if they're saying who they are, if it's real or whatever.

(01:42:02):
But geocashing is it's people go in very interesting little
it's trasure. It's like it's a treasure pre buried treasure hunting,
but then you're given what the coordinates.

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
Yeah, so I wrote it's like an outdoor treasure hunting activity,
like a scavenger hunt in which members it's like an
online geocashing community. You're like, you sign up and you're
part of this community. They navigate to specific a specific
set of GPS coordinates, so if you're a member, you'll
bury one and be like, here are the coordinates, and
they're all over the world. It's like kind of like

(01:42:33):
families go and do it, or people, you know, adventurers
or fucking if someone is like a trucker and travels
a lot, that might be a fun thing for them
to do to make it less boring on the road,
you know what I mean. It's but it's also like
it's also not going to be at the exact coordinates,
so it's kind of a fun little treasure hunt. And
players will sometimes leave a small token behind, so I

(01:42:55):
think that they leave like a box and you can
put a little you know, toy or whatever the note
into the box, and then usually there's a guest book
and you signed the guest book and say when you
found it, so people know when the last time that
was found was, and you can take a token if
you find it and leave one whatever. Well, it turns
out that not only were Libby and her older sister

(01:43:16):
Kelsey geo cashers, there's a cash at the Monan high Bridge. Oh,
which okay, I just thought was so fucking interesting. But wait,
Libby and Kelsey had found the cash a couple days
prior to the murders, and.

Speaker 3 (01:43:34):
Kelsey had logged the cash. That's according to the way.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
You know, I might be wrong about that, but that's
what I read and at the news conference. So this
new news conference for the like, we're changing direction. It's
like a big fucking deal. This news conference on Indiana
State Police Superintendent Douglas Carter addresses the killer in a
really heavy way and says, quote, we believe you are

(01:44:00):
hiding in plane site and may even be in this room. Well,
the geocaching like tagline or motto is hiding in plain sight?

Speaker 2 (01:44:11):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
So some of us think that him saying we believe
you are hiding in plain sight is a message to
the killer that we know that there's a geocaching angle,
like we know who you are and we just need
to find the right evidence.

Speaker 3 (01:44:25):
Like what weird wording like it sounds like come on, let.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
Me know it. No, sorry it sound I mean I
like the connection and I think it's definitely possible and
it makes sense going along with the other behavior where
they're being so guarded about whatever they're releasing that they
would be speaking in code.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
And everything they're releasing has to mean something because they're
releasing so little, right, maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
Maybe, But also hiding in plain sight is a very
common phrase and it is used and that yeah, yeah,
it's the way he's it's a delivery, but it's deliver Yeah. Yeah,
but I think it is that thing of he could
also just be saying, because this happens a lot. It
put me in the mind of I think it's season
one of mind Hunter where they go to the like

(01:45:12):
the Pennsylvania town and there had been a murder there
and they were like they're telling everybody, they're telling the.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
Rash dump yes, and that thing.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
Of like it's someone here, And then it's like basically
saying oftentimes again like the well that's a killer, they
don't run and move to a different often high stranger. No,
it's it's someone that has the perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
Mass and is comfortable there.

Speaker 1 (01:45:37):
And someone made a really good point on Reddit as
well that was like, you know, if it's a fucking
resident of this three thousand town, three thousand people town,
someone would have seen them. But then they were like,
you know, there's like they could be a second or
third shift worker that lives it at night and goes out,
you know, it doesn't actually interact with people during the day,

(01:45:57):
so no one would see him at the girl store.
He's there at fucking five thirty in the morning or whatever.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:46:04):
He could also be one of those kind of I
feel like that there's some killer where it's like that
the perfectly neutral, like the people that have learned to
camouflage themselves in the light of day, whereas you would
never notice, you would never think twice. This is not
a person who stands out in any way, and that's
all on purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:46:23):
And that guy on the bridge is wearing bulky clothes,
so that could be a fucking skinniest shit dude, but
no one looks twice at because he doesn't have the
build of the bridge guy.

Speaker 2 (01:46:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:46:35):
Well, I mean, and I wish there was more information.
I feel like I feel like I feel like investigators
keep expecting the tiniest piece of evidence to get this
solved because it's so obvious and it's not happening, and
they need to release a little more because adding any
eyes to down the hill, what that means something. There's

(01:46:57):
a reason they did that, but who the but it
didn't work. It didn't fucking work right well.

Speaker 2 (01:47:01):
And also usually from what I've seen and read in
the past, usually they they keep one specific it's not
they don't keep everything and then release things wanted a
time like that. So usually it's like there's there's a
bit more shared, but they just withhold something that is
commercial and then.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
The type of secrets because it is.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
It doesn't make sense too that it's like there's a
bunch of people who are connecting these this murder, these
murders to other murders across the country, but we can't
really do that because we don't know how they were killed.
We don't know any of the signatures, so it's impossible
to do that. And maybe it would be easy to
solve if we knew that it was connected to a
murder a you know, a state over maybe we could

(01:47:46):
pool you know we I'm saying we, yeah, just because
I lurk on Reddit all the time and I'm like, yeah, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:47:54):
But the citizen detectives, it's almost like there needs to
be another People need to start to understand the kind
of work that people can do from their homes, and
I think they're starting to learn it. But it's like, yeah,
put that information out there.

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
Especially right now when we have all the time on
our hands, nothing to do but help, you know, right,
or fuck it up, because we could also fuck it
up really bad.

Speaker 3 (01:48:19):
It is true, all right, true.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
So anyways, So in the three and a half years
since their deaths, police have received over forty thousand tips
during the course of the investigation and of now, As
of now, no new leads have appeared. The Indiana State
Police say they still receive new tips about the Delphi
murders almost daily, and there's two state troopers to Carroll

(01:48:43):
County Sheriff's deputies and Adelphi City police officer and someone
from someone from the Prosecutor's office working regularly on the case,
as do many internet sleuths and sometimes the FBI assists.
But you know, it's a dead end right now, but
it's not a cold case, you know. They reiterate that
the reward for information leading to the arrest of the

(01:49:04):
Delphi killer is over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars,
made up of big and small donations from the community
fundraisers and includes a ninety seven thousand dollars donation from
retired Indianapolis Colts punter Pat mccafee and CEO an owner
of the team, Jim Ursay, which is like, I told

(01:49:26):
Vince that today. I was like, do you know who
Pat mccafee is, because I fucking don't. And it turns
out he's about to be like start wrestling.

Speaker 2 (01:49:33):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:49:34):
And Vince was like, oh, I've been talking shit on
him this whole time. Now now I need to go
back and be like he's actually a good gut.

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
Yeah, you know, as aktaer, I just say, let that
new information inform your opinion.

Speaker 3 (01:49:47):
It's right, yea.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
As of October twenty nineteen, Libby's grandmother, Becky Patty, who
you can hear talk in these other podcasts, is fighting cancer,
but she stays positive, knowing that even if she loses
her back, she will get to see her granddaughter in heaven.
Becky says that the families have asked police to release
more information, and she believes they do have DNA, which

(01:50:09):
is good. Abby's mother, who is pretty private. This poor woman,
Anna is frustrated that three years have gone by, but
is grateful that no one has forgotten the case. Libby's sister,
Kelsey is this incredible fucking woman an advocate. She has
become an advocate for the hunt of her sister and

(01:50:30):
Abby's killer, and she even changed her college major from
communications to forensics because she's like, I want to help
other families solve cases like this.

Speaker 3 (01:50:41):
She's incredible. Kelsey told James Renner.

Speaker 1 (01:50:45):
As a way to keep going and honor her sister,
she said, quote, I want to be the person I
saw Libby as so outgoing and fun and talking to everybody.
If they were still alive today, Libby would be seventeen
and a half and would have just turned seventeen in June.
And that is the yet to be solved Delphi murders solvable.

Speaker 2 (01:51:08):
It's so fucking solvable. It's solvable. But more information needs
to get released. They have, they have to share more information.
They have the right a.

Speaker 1 (01:51:18):
Person needs to see him walking across the bridge even
with the weird gait, or the right person needs to
hear guys down the hill like it's just or they
need to put out more information for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
I have to say they need now, they need a
Michelle McNamara, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:51:34):
It sounds like it could be Kelsey.

Speaker 2 (01:51:36):
It sounds like that's what she's trying to do, which
is beautiful, but oh my god, it's too much for
like the family members can't be expected and there.

Speaker 1 (01:51:43):
Has to be totally and yeah, so I do recommend
Down the Hill, but it is dark. The podcast is
called Down the Hill or or Scene of the Crime
or the two podcasts you can listen to with more
information and like a lot of good interviews. And then
there's time of YouTube video of the of the location,

(01:52:04):
which is like hard to picture and.

Speaker 3 (01:52:06):
I mean good one that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:52:09):
I'm definitely going to look up all of that stuff
because that is really fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:52:14):
And also it's.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
I feel like sometimes when things happen in small towns
there's more activation around it because it is that thing
where it's people knowing people your one degree away or whatever,
as opposed to when things are in bigger cities, and
it's easier to have that kind of be.

Speaker 3 (01:52:37):
Diluted. It in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
It makes me think of when Polyclaus went missing in
my entire town was I mean, in our town is
way bigger than DELFI, but.

Speaker 3 (01:52:49):
It feels like a fall.

Speaker 2 (01:52:51):
It's very it's a very small town, feeling town, and
it is it is that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:57):
And yeah, it's just you.

Speaker 1 (01:52:59):
Want to protect your baby, you want to protect well.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
And it's the point of Yeah, it's the point of community.
And it's the point of knowing your neighbors and caring
about your neighbors and learning who they are and then
also for the you know, for lots of reasons to
care about them and to also then be aware of
who's around you.

Speaker 1 (01:53:17):
It's really love.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
Should we do? Fucking horays?

Speaker 1 (01:53:20):
So yeah, we sure shit, we sure shit. But that
was great great. Joh, thank you, thank you, I really
thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:53:26):
All Right, you want to go ahead, go first?

Speaker 1 (01:53:28):
Okay. This is from Instagram from doctor Underscore tickles ew No,
I think it's an animal account, not a real it's
not a real doctor, don't worry. Uh okay, this one
says my fucking horah. After losing my sweet purebread Siamese

(01:53:48):
baby unexpectedly during this time at home, I was looking
for a rescue kitten and ended up adopting one and
a puppy.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
It's the most.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
Quarantiney thing I've done other than learned how to play
the ukulele. But Luna and baby Georgia Hardstark have been
the best fucking horays ever, and I've loved watching them
grow together.

Speaker 3 (01:54:08):
Pression, I wonder you love that so much.

Speaker 1 (01:54:13):
Writing your diary.

Speaker 2 (01:54:14):
I was just no, I was listening. I was listening.
But then you're just like me, am I cat. I
was just like, you're You're not allowed to write in
on fucking horays, Georgia. What if I.

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
Named my cat baby Georgia hard Stark. What if I
did that?

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
Kitty Perry, Kitty Perry, Kitty.

Speaker 2 (01:54:37):
Purri, want to hear mine? Yep, fucking hooray, my fucking horays.
After being sexually harassed at my job for two years
by my boss who doubled as h R and then
in parentheses, Oh the joys of small companies, I not
only was finally able to get out of my contract,
but was immediately hired at a new company. While starting
a new job remotely during a pandemic is not ideal.

(01:54:59):
I am o so grateful that I did not have
to choose between my mental health and making money. Oh God,
although the past two years I've really taken a toll
on me, I'm so lucky to have a good support system.
My best advice for those who may be going through
something similar is do not keep this to yourself. Find
people to strengthen and comfort you. Write everything down. That's

(01:55:19):
so true. Write everything down for processing purposes and in case,
somehow and in some way, justice is able to be served.
You're not defined by what is said or told to you,
and you are loved. A Hey, amazing, congratulations. Hell yeah,
good job, a you got through it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:38):
We're proud of you. You should be proud of yourself.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
Yeah, so good.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
This one's from four point twenty Granny Underscore Etsy, which
I want to hang out with right now. She just
makes Golden Girls coasters all stoned.

Speaker 2 (01:55:55):
Maybe because her fucking ray is my fucking array. I've
started my Etsy store at age sixty eight. Hell yeah,
anyone can start at any age. I just needed some
help from my grandkids. Oh so rat. Also from Instagram?

Speaker 1 (01:56:10):
How rah is that?

Speaker 2 (01:56:11):
Just? Do?

Speaker 3 (01:56:12):
They say? What the INSTA? Let's look it up.

Speaker 1 (01:56:14):
Hold on, I'm gonna look it up.

Speaker 2 (01:56:16):
It turns out she's selling Heroin on Etsy.

Speaker 3 (01:56:18):
I think this is were but it's like a lot
of cute.

Speaker 1 (01:56:21):
Oh my god, it's like adoor, look at this minimalist,
stoner joint rolling embroidery. Look at that. Whoa, it's okay,
it's a tiny embroidery of two female hands rolling a joint.

Speaker 2 (01:56:39):
Oh guys, and it's the twenty granny support her on
Etsy for them.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
I should say it's awesome for twenty grand Fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
Yeah, that's a that's very cool. Yes, okay, this one
says hello, oh my fucking Houray isn't anything crazy, but
it feels like a big deal to me. I'm a
nurse in Ohio. Woo, thank you, thank you. And this
February I transitioned from working on a step down floor
to the ICU, where the patients are much sicker. I
started seeing a lot more deaths than I ever had

(01:57:09):
on my floor, and even those who live don't always
have a great quality of life. It started to weigh
me down emotionally. I also work the night shift, which
doesn't help my mental health at all, to the point
where I drunkenly emailed my manager one night asking her
for some advice after having a particularly rough few weeks
of patients. She was the sweetest and referred me to

(01:57:29):
our employee assistance program for me to start getting some
therapy for how to cope with all of this loss
of life. It's something I'd wanted to do for a
while but was holding out on because I wanted to
feel as tough as some of the other ICU nurses
I work with, which seemed who seemed like they were
coping just fine. It turns out being tough means being
mentally strong enough to handle this shit, and there's nothing

(01:57:53):
like and that's nothing therapy can't help with. Thanks ladies
for all the labs. You're the best and I can't
wait to hopefully see you on tour one day when
the world doesn't suck so much.

Speaker 1 (01:58:02):
Rachel, that's amazing. What a look.

Speaker 2 (01:58:07):
Just because you got there in a lightly drunkenly way
doesn't mean it wasn't a great decision.

Speaker 3 (01:58:12):
And sometimes that's how.

Speaker 2 (01:58:14):
We have to do it, because asking for help, especially
if you're raised by certain people who teach you that
asking for help is bad, can be really difficult sometimes,
especially Yeah, if you're surrounded by overachiever, badass.

Speaker 3 (01:58:28):
I see you nurses.

Speaker 2 (01:58:29):
You don't want to be the wink link, but yeah,
I'd be like they do that all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:58:33):
And all you can do is become a better nurse
for them. By going to therapy, all you can do
is become better at being yourself and that's going to
help so many people in this incredible career you've chosen
where all you're doing is helping people, which is exhausting.

Speaker 3 (01:58:48):
And yeah, you deserve all the support. Yeah, thank you,
thank you, Rachel.

Speaker 1 (01:58:52):
Which are so many fucking incredible listeners. This one's from
my last one's from Nini Martini exo, uh my fucking hoorray.
After having mom guilt for the past two weeks for
not feeling like myself, a little depressed and lots of
anxiety due to the pandemic, my six year old and
I were driving home from a dentist appointment and he

(01:59:13):
said to me, out of nowhere, quote, you're a good mom.
Oh no, I said, oh you think so? And he said, yes,
I love you And I said I love you too,
honey bunny, and I turned up the music a little
bit and drove the rest of the way home teary eyed.
Sometimes moms just need that little reassurance that we are

(01:59:36):
still good moms, regardless of our mental health. Hash hag SSDGM.

Speaker 3 (01:59:43):
Six years old.

Speaker 1 (01:59:44):
I want to say, like, as an adult. My mom
once told me it was like nineteen ninety and she
was at a stoplight and suddenly she had just started
taking prozac and suddenly hit her that she wasn't depressed
anymore and how press she had been. And I had
to remind her that, yeah, I had been going through
her depression too for at that point ten years. Yeah,

(02:00:08):
so you're not. You need to take care of your
mental health for your children as well, because they do
notice that shit, and whether or not it's you know,
they just want to take care of you, or they're
getting in you know, whatever it is, it's it's not
just your mental health at that point, it's your children's
understanding of who their parent is yet. And for them

(02:00:30):
to be someone who's on prozac and taking care of
themselves is a way better example than someone who is
suffering with depression.

Speaker 2 (02:00:38):
Yep, so makes sense. Yeah, absolutely, Okay, here's my last one.
My fucking horay is actually my four year old daughter's
fucking horah. On the same note, because she can't type
for shit. After her quarantine style birthday parade of family
members driving by and dropping off presents on our driveway,
she discovered that not one but two of the dresses

(02:01:01):
she received had pockets. The look of pure joy on
her face as she discovered this for the first time
in her little life was too much to handle.

Speaker 1 (02:01:12):
What else could I say? But welcome to our world.
Oh I'll have one. I'll have one.

Speaker 2 (02:01:19):
No, it's too late, it's precious. You can have another,
mister Tickles. That is what that's what you can.

Speaker 1 (02:01:27):
That's a great idea. Every still to this day, every
time I get addressed and it has pockets, I get
fucking stoked. I mean so funny. It's you know, it's
a joy. It's a true joy. Fucking pockets. Man, Pockets
just might be the solution to everything. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:01:43):
It could just be an indication masks are just face pockets. Nice.
Hey hey, hey, hey, oh Jesus, Now that we're coming
up on our three this podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:01:57):
I think gets time to wrap it down, hek.

Speaker 1 (02:02:00):
So send us your fucking fucking harays on Instagram, on Twitter, email,
on the fan call, and.

Speaker 2 (02:02:08):
Thank you all so much for uh suggesting so many
stories to us. It's so helpful, especially these days when
I feel like I'm doing much more escape viewing of
entertainment than what I used to do. Which was much
different and it's really helping me kind of. And there's
some great ones too. We have, there's so many ones

(02:02:28):
I'm excited about.

Speaker 3 (02:02:29):
Oh should I have? People are suggesting I have three
percent battery left.

Speaker 1 (02:02:32):
I just want to say how lucky we are to
have the most incredible fucking listeners. This is our job
and it's I just I was going through things that
I am grateful for when I was at the beach yesterday,
because my therapist said it creates new neuropathways to even
do that.

Speaker 2 (02:02:47):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:02:47):
And this, obviously my life is one and it's because
of you, Karen and Steven and all our listeners.

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
Thank you. You guys made it happen for us. Thank
you for your support and your participation. And you know what,
stay suxy.

Speaker 3 (02:03:01):
And don't get murdered. Goodbye, Elvis. Do you want to cookie? Elvis?