45- Funky Diva

In a traumatic night of unbelievable circumstance, this week’s My Favorite Murder features the story of Lord Lucan and the mystery of the Summerhill Road Murders.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
You go. First, Welcome to my favorite murder, the podcast
that asked the question what huh?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Who put this on?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Huh? This is not appropriate? No murder, what murder? How
dare you wrong with you? Dare you like this? My
sensibilities are offended. I'm offended in my sensibility area. I'm
offended in the face. I'm offended religiously, in my mouth, morally,
in your mouth, your nose, throat, virtually your nose and throat,

(00:54):
in the eyes, vein's spinal fluid, heart, not the spine,
just the spinal flu clean. This is so.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
This is the Anatomy podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, we can name over ten things in your body.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Congratulations to us.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yay. That's Georgia, that's Karen, and we're here to talk
to you about all of our favorite things we like
the most, which is true crime.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
If you don't like it later days, The wrong pea
cast for you, bro, I saw it from Vince. I
don't want to take is the wrong pea cast pie
for you friends? Yeah, get another pea cast. It's funny, that,
isn't it funny?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Karen?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
He reflect ized peeing today as you do, and I
was reflecting.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Sure, as I do as you're forced to, right.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
And I was thinking about how funny it is that
this like thing that I've been, we've been obsessed with
and secretly in love with, and certainly like is our
kind of going to be our career.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
It's pretty nice to think that little Karen was right
about at least one thing.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
It's a pretty good feeling. Yeah, because she fucked up
a ton of stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I just keep accidentally falling into like not fucking up. Yeah,
you know that's nice. Yeah, is it you mean in
later life?

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, Like we got our fucked up stuff out of
the way early.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, which is kind of I think what you're supposed
to do.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, we're lucky because like twenty well by twenty five
I was like I'm good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, by twenty seven, I was like, well I didn't die,
so I'm gonna stop doing all those things now.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, there's no there's no going down from from being
rehab at fourteen.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
I still love that.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
I like to think of you in a big pair
of orange junko jeans just being like, hey, do you
have a clove or whatever?

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Just like so different.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Oh sorry, that's a that's a little fourteen year old
Georgia and she appears out of a puff of smoke
and like an orange inco Is it Jinko was? I
don't know. I'm sure it's different everywhere. I'm too old
to even really know. It's not my reference, Thank god.
I never wore those. I did wear vinyl pants to raves,
did you? Weren't they hot? Uh?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Huh tight? Never washed them?

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Grow?

Speaker 4 (03:13):
You know?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Was there some benefit to not washing them? Really put on?
I just don't know how one would wash vinyl or
leather pants.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Oh yeah, you just have to throw them away, yeah
and start over totally.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Where do you get vinyl pants? There is this You
remember when Melrose Avenue was like the fucking coolest place
in the world. I do, Actually that was like our
We would save up money throughout the year in Orange
County and make a pilgrimage to fucking Melrose. Yeah. And
my first job when I moved to La like at
six at seventeen, was like on Melrose, like one of
those clothing stores.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
What's that Funky Diva? Literally it was called Funkya. I'm
I'm positive I shopped at Funky Diva that you came
in tons of tons of chokers.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yes, wouldn't that be amazing?

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Now we could see security camera footage of me and
you having some kind of rude exchange at Funky Diva
because I'm rude. That's all I was doing back then
was rudeness. Rudeness, rudeness, friends, foes, didn't matter. I love it.
It was a lot of arched eyebrows and a lot
of anyway, sorry, sorry, Sorry. What I'm enjoying these days

(04:24):
is people on Twitter trying to show that they mean
I'm sorry the way you say it. They're trying to
do it in the writing. So sometimes it's all caps
i'm and then sorry. Sometimes it's reversed, like how do
you actually put that into.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
I would do all caps i'm But some girls did
you see that? On Instagram?

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I put up a photo of some girl who wrote
like there was like a musical bar and it had
the like it.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Was like how one would play it, could sing it?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, And she had to like she must have been
a musician. I wish I could, but yeah, that's genius.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Sorry. Do you ever like, do you get like self
conscious about the things you say here that become a
thing like that where you're like I would say that
anyways but now it sounds like I'm pandering.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yes, now, well, now it sounds like you're trying to
make some kind of an infographic for totally.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Here's your favorite.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Like someone at the live show text afterwards, like not texted,
but like put on, Like I was really hoping you'd
call someone a sweet baby angel, and like, well, I don't.
I don't call anyone that because I don't want to
sound like, well you guys, yes you don't.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah, it's not like you're uh, that's your tag, tagline, catchphrase,
tag catch line phrase. You're not going to tag anybody
with that phrase. My problem is I cannot believe I don't.
I cannot believe that I still say literally so much.
It is literally the worst habit of all time. I

(05:52):
say it when I'm like kind of trying to explain
something to you, and I'm really, like really trying to
convey something. I'll say I literally liked seven times. It's awful.
I haven't noticed it. I don't pay attention to anyone
but myself, so I wouldn't know. Good plan, good plant,
you know what I mean? I guess same here, Yeah,
nobody cares yet, nobody.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Gives a shoes get the shit about you, but yourself
and your cats.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's nice to be We by the way, we had
such an incredible time in Chicago. We I mean, it
was nuts, so we I'm speaking for both of us now,
I'm speaking for the horrible. Yeah, Georgia did not enjoy yourself.
We the Karen Uh. It was so crazy to walk out.

(06:38):
As I explained to my sister and you and our
whole all of our people afterwards, I said, I anticipated
a certain amount of applause, and we got like fifteen
times more than what I anticipated.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
How I've seen so many like a couple of friends
have texted me, and I've seen a couple of tweets
and things like that. They got so emotional when they
heard the appla of us come.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Like yeah, people keep saying that, what a bunch of
nice people.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I know, but thank you for clapping, I know, And
like it just is neat.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
It's so neat. It's really neat.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I think we're a little overwhelmed and how neat it
is and how neat everything is, and we're trying to
process it. Yeah, and we're just happy. It's so flattering
and we're happy and we want to thank each and
every one of you, which I think we did. After
the show, we stood there and think we fucking thanked
you all to your face. I hugged so many people

(07:33):
and thank the Lord. Nobody was weird, nobody, nobody, nobody.
Everyone really waiting for like somebody with some scissors up
their sleeve, for sure, And uh, everybody did great.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
My mom sat to the side in a chair with
a beer and just watched. It was like an hour
and a half. It was so long, and she watched
the entire so did my sister and aid it and Audrey.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
After a little while, Audrey came over and just start
taking pictures of us, taking pictures with people because she
is so excited. Everybody was thrilled about it, but we
did want to think. Tyler Green and Jonathan Pitts are
the two people who put the Chicago Podcast Festival together,
and they made it happen for us and for everybody
who is there, and we want to thank them so
much because they did an amazing job. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
I was so smooth and easy and great. And there
was soda in the green room, and there was a
green room candy.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, we had a whole We had a bag of treats. Yeah,
that's awesome. Do you know how much I fucking love
like that.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
What do they call them when you leave a place
and they give you a bag, an exit bag whatever?

Speaker 3 (08:34):
I fucking like I don't know it sounded right, Oh,
like a swag bag.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Swag bag. Yeah, I will go to a fucking party
just for the swag bag. Sure, even if I could
buy it myself.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
I will, like you buy a little present, Oh, I
just want to like not yeah, like presents. We also
want to think that the staff of the I never
pronounced it right, but the Anthonyum Theater, which is the
one hundred and five year old theater where we did
our show, where all those people were, and that staff
had to wait until we said high to every single person. Yeah, practically,

(09:07):
And so thank you guys so much for your patients
and for being there for us. And I actually I
have a business card of the man who really arranged
that lobby situation, and I meant to bring it to
say his name, specifically, the.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Dude who stood there and took every he like would
he was like handmade or camera.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
They were so great, they were so nice and the
whole experience was just like pretty I didn't really look
at you that much because I didn't want to have like,
we weren't having that much personal experience because I didn't
want to like either prismeters.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, you can't look at me a lot in like
emotional settings. I feel like, no, you don't want to
get emotional.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
I need to shut down in very specific ways, and
I can't. You know me, I can't open it back
up or it'll be tears. Tears, tears, Okay, I guess. Yeah, God,
We're We're so different. We're like I was like the opposite.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Speaking of live shows, so our Brooklyn Bellhouse show is
coming up, which I'm so excited about, and it sold out. Yea,
I heard there might be some tickets available really maybe, oh,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
And then we have other shows coming up, so like
this might be like a show thing maybe once in
a blue So we're doing the Riot LA show on Saturday,
January twenty.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
First, those tickets the pre sale.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
There, We announced that this morning, and then the actual
tickets go on sale Friday. So if you live in
Los Angeles and you want to come to it's going
to be a good show. The Riot that show that
should be great. Yeah, because that's the one at the Orphium, right,
I think so. Yeah, so it's another big, old fashioned theater. Yeah,
please help fill it out so we don't feel stupid.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, we don't want to feel supid in our own city.
Oh my god, like around people that we know.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Oh my god, do we keep talking about like oh,
in Chicago they did this in our back and then
we go to LA and it's like four people. Yeah,
it's like your manager, my agent wouldn't go. Who just
would be judging in the crowd.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
No one makes a giant Elvis fucking cut out face
like they did in Chicago.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Oh I forgot so a girl maid, Oh.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
My god, I'm gonna call her out because she was amazing.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
She took a picture of Elvis.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
She blew it up so it was bigger than a
human head, like twice the size of a human head,
and then she had it in front of her face.
So when the lights came up and we were talking
to people to get the hometown murder at the end, Yeah,
I saw this thing that I thought a girl dressed
up like a free like dressed up like Elvis.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
It scared the shit out of me. I was genuinely scared.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
But she it turned out she was just holding it
in front of her face, like, look, Elvis is here.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
You can find the photos on Instagram. We're my favorite
murder Instagram. Her name is Alex Graves and what a
fucking angel, baby, like thank you so much?

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Like that was so fucking cool. It was super cool.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
And I have photos of us with it, and I
have this photo from my hotel room of me and
where having it in front of my face.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
It really does look like when you hold it up,
it just looks like you're now a huge sign.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
It's creepy, but in the best way, because I'm obsessed
with this cat. Yeah, Like he's sitting next to me
right now, and I also have Siamese pajama pants.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
On right now. You're in You're living the life. Oh
I'm at m Indeed, you're you're living da life.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
I have a parasite in my brain that just controls
me and it's and it's cat.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
It's from cats probably right, sure, that's real, sad.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Are you going to bring that cat head to New
York so then you so Elvis can be there too?

Speaker 2 (12:28):
It doesn't it didn't fit in my bag. Plays something
and I feel really shitty. It's super huge. Did you
have to leave stuff behind? Okay I don't care. Okay,
I know, but I know you don't. But I feel
really bad. So like, oh oh, but it's kind of cute. Okay.
So we took a.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Photo of it and in the hotel.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Then we were packing to leave and tonight, and then
I was like, this doesn't fit. What do we do?

Speaker 1 (12:47):
And he was like, put it behind the couch in
the hotel room.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
So I slipped it behind the couch at the fucking
Godfrey Hotel in one of the rooms.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Behind the couch.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Is a fucking Elvis and it has this girl's info
on it, like not info in but like you know,
Instagram and shit on it.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
So yeah, someone's gonna mother fucking find that. That's hilarious.
You know what's interesting. I had brought a dress with
me to Chicago that I bought in a panic at
Target for twenty dollars. Didn't try it on. I was like,
this is going to be a look at dress. I'm
doing it fine, grabbed it bland. It wasn't black, actually

(13:22):
it was like green and maroon and black, but it
was kind of stripey and there's a lot going on.
When I got to Chicago and tried it on, it
turned out it was mpure waste, which makes me look
because I have big boob, so it made me look
like I was in my third trimester.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
My sisters like, take it off. Annarexic girls. The only
people look good in them, and you shouldn't be anarexic, right,
So so no one, nobody. So that's why I went
shopping and told that whole story. If you want to hear,
it's not a sad story, but it's on the pa.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Are we gonna? And we both wore black dresses? Are
we gonna?

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Just are we doing that? From now?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Those are our show uniforms, like the same dress or
just black, any kind of black eye?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
I think I think we should keep it like any
kind Okay, don't you?

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes? Except that means I have to go shopping because
I literally own like three black things because I dressed
like a fucking schoolgoorl Grandma.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
Well then you have ten days. You have ten days,
and I a lot of shopping.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Oh my god, shopping is amazing.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
But I left that dress in our hotel room with
a note that said you can have this.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
If you want it turned it? Oh no, I'm a
tis target.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, I'd ripped. Anytime I buy something, I rip all
the tags off of me.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
You do see I have.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm claustrophobic and can't go in a changing room, so
I just bring everything home and then return it all.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
I think I don't go in a changing room because
I don't want to see my back.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Those mirror I.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Saw mine recently.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
I thought like it had the mirror behind me, like
my mirror stops at like my it's like my waist up, yeah,
which is like the great area. Sure, I look so
hot from the behind and the waist up put your
with the back of your bra and everything. Yeah, it's like,
oh well now because I got that like fat pinch,
because I refuse to believe I'm bigger than everyone has
that that's human.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I don't need to see my fucking but right then,
when you're in one of those high tension dressing rooms, yeah,
oh so yeah, I just want to pretend that that's
not true. I just like to think that there was
a housekeeping housekeeping lady who was just like, oh my god,
I can't dress.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
That's dress.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
And I wrote on the note never been worn. I
hope she believed me anyhow, Thanks Chicago, we really love you.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh yeah, Chicago.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Do we have any other housekeeping? Uh?

Speaker 2 (15:28):
I was keeping. Oh.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
My only thing is.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I had started watching a show called did you start
called The Killing Season? No?

Speaker 3 (15:37):
But I need I need to watch it, okay, yesterday.
I haven't been hearing enough about it.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Okay, I think we'll be the engine for that. I
think so, because I started watching yesterday. I had heard
a little bit. And so it's a series about the
Long Island serial killer. And I'd started that book so
long ago and said I was going to do an
episode about it.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
And this is one of like the murder that that
I heard about beforehand is so fucking crazy, and in saying,
the girl who went to private privately danced for that dude, yes,
who like something happened, Yes, the thing that like kicked
it off amazing, Like it should be solvable based on
that murder, right, I love it.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
So this series is by the people that two people,
Joshua Zeeman and Rachel Mills, and they're the two people
who did the documentary Cropsy that we recommended to everybody. Yeah,
that's super upsetting. Well, this is an any series.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
Amy is amazing.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I love Cropsy because it's not corny, Like there's so
many documentaries that are like corny, right, Cropsy is not. No, no,
it's just straight up scary.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah. Well, this series it's called The Killing Season. It's
on any and it's.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Not an ad by the way in the middle, like we're.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Not talking, this is real talking.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, now we have to say the corner. So I
started watching yesterday and I ended up laying on my
cow and.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Watching six episodes straight through.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
And by the time I got to the sixth episode,
I didn't I need to leave my house and be
around human beings that I knew I would be safe
like that. It was very upsetting and I don't have
that like it normally. I don't get that, and I
really did, Like I went to the movies with Alison
Agusti and then I told her. She started it today
and texted me today and was like, I cannot stop.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Watching the cabies.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
I should watch it. I mean, I'm sin this is
gonna want to watch it with me. It's really heavy.
But the thing is that it starts with the Long
Island serial Killer and then it just expands like other
shit just keeps going. Yeah, because there's all these things connect.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
You have to see it. I'm watching the shit out
of that. Highly recommend if you haven't seen it. I
did the same thing yesterday literally with.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Search Party.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Oh yes, and now I'm like, I was like, I'm
gonna watch I watched five minutes of the first episode
and I was like, I'm gonna save this for events
because it's really good and it's gonna and then I'm
in an episode like six. Now I'm fucking I couldn't stop,
like I did my nails because I wanted to sit
in front of the TV. And I can't sit in
front of the TV without doing something right. So like,
my nails are nice, My fucking laundry was folded out here,

(18:10):
which I never like.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
It was just true, Oh my god, Yeah, you gotta
do something I have been. I watched one episode of
Search Party and then I had to leave my house.
I like got had to be somewhere, yea, And I
knew if I started the second one.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
I want every character John Early is. Yeah, he is
so fucking perfect.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
There's like four main characters and they're just like the
perfect exact people of who they're supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and if you know, did you get the feeling too?
Where when I saw the first episode, I got jealous
that that's there, like, oh, you're making this show?

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Alreadie, like I want this show? I did you.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I was thinking that about you writing that.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
I'm like, how stoked would you be if this was
the show you were working on? Yeah? I want like
a fucking can I be someone's sister's friend's brother.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
No, No, I want like a walk on roll And
y'all want you to write it. It's okay, Yeah, we'll
come to them with a bunch of big ideas.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
So good, it's so good.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Uh watch Shirch Party, Like it's so good. And I
think it's all on demand too, so you can binge
the shit out.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Of Yeah you can. It feels like everything's that just
it feels like I would do what she's doing. Right.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
What's Aliyah?

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Aliyah? Chaquat shaqua? She's so you bet you I didn't
pronounce that.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Right, Aliyah?

Speaker 2 (19:25):
It's so maybe from Arrest of Device. Yeah, she's the
darlingest person I've ever seen. She's such a good actress too. Yeah,
oh my god, I'm so happy.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
So that's like TV Corner corner. I think that's all
I have merch corner.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
But yeah, we have merch. We have merch. My favorite
murder shirts dot com you can and there's not just shirts.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
I made that up when we only.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Had a shirt.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Now I wish it was my favorite murder merch dot com,
but I can't do that.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
So well, yeah, you get the idea.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Now I have mugs and tank tops and tots and
posters and fucking.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
And the cool thing in Chicago we as each person
walked up, we got to see another piece of merchant
in action that was really exciting.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
My favorite were these two girls and one had a
shirt on that said I am a Karen and I
said I am a Georgia. And remember the fucking over
the week there was a fucking BuzzFeed quiz am.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
I A can ray? Am I A Georgia? I mean
that was fucking ridiculous. Guys, guys, you can. But users
can make those things. I know it was totally like
it was a user who made them, but it was
so good. I don't hate it, Like, yeah, we're not,
we're not. We're not. We just don't or is this
stop it because we're not we're not. We don't think

(20:43):
we are. We don't pretend to. We never have, and
we don't, we won't won't like promise we will you
are and we're not.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
You are but we're not.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
No, like we're just you know, yes, for sure, But
I got that out of the way.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
We do murders even do you need a Stephen check in?
Steven check in?

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Howry Stephen.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
My sister had a great time in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yah.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
And I didn't hang out with the cats.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
When I go out of town.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Stephen takes over the Elvis and Meme Instagram and it's like,
I kind of need to pay you extra for like
that because they're it's so good.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
I was just thinking where I was during the show,
and I'm just like sitting here petting el.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
As it should be. Yeah, No, it's perfect.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
But my sister she met a really nice murderino and
her mom who's also murderino, and they got a picture
with her and everything.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Which is very sweet.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
Her name was Lee or Lee or Leah or something
like that, but nice, very sweet, great And my sister,
like I was telling you, I was like, my sister
needs to listen to my favorite murder because she was
obsessed with Helter Skelter. I got her Devil in the
White City when she moved to Chicago. So it was
just like, this is this needs to happen.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
She's got all the materials, she has no excuses. Yeah,
she's got to get into it. And we gave you it.
We called her sister, Ray Morris, give yes you a
shout out. That's right. Someone needs to get a giant Stephen.
Ray Morris cut out the next one. Oh my god, No,
that sounds like I would never want to see things
like that.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
But it needs to be three times the size as
the last.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
She need to.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Basically not be able to bring it in because they're like,
you can't. Someone make a Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade balloon
of Stephen.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
That would be perfect if you don't mind. It would
not be that big of a deal and.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Leave it behind it what the couch believed in the
basement of the Holiday Inn.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
You just told everyone we're staying No, we're not staying
in a holidays.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I know.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Not that we're gonna get okay here, we nobody gives
a ship.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
We're not.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
They know we're not. We're not. And we told you
that ever did from the beginning. We set it before
and we're going to say it again. Yeah, like you guys know,
please want you to know. You have to know that
that we know.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes, we know.

Speaker 5 (23:02):
When we're not three hours later, they're standing kitchen. Oh
here's me typing an email. You guys start the podcast. No,
fuck you, We've got to improv some more.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Stop pissing Karen off. Elvis is leaving. He's like, fucking bitches,
you pissed me off, then you piss Elvis off, then
it's over.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Mimi's fine though, Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Most people gave us like Elvis and Mimi toys and
they're like they look like, oh god, I'm gonna lose
my mind.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Everyone's the best. We got a nice presence, all right.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
I love it. They're so good and nice. I know people,
I know it. I think, oh what, I'm sorry. Here's
the last The girl who as she walked up my
sister and Adrian and Audrey like cried laughing when I
told the story. The girl who walked up like, hey,
you guys, kind of all young and like she was
doing weird things with her shoulders, so she's all kind

(23:53):
of goofy. And then when she got in to take
the picture, she goes, you, guys, my dad killed his
business partner and got away with it. Bye, stay sexy.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
She was just like this cute, like kind of sorority
ish chick. Hey, how are you guys? Please? Yeah, and
she did put her on like you know when you're
like talking to someone as the photos getting taken.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Like, I was just sony, like straight faced.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
I was so excited about my dad killed his business
partner and he got away with it. Bye.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
We were like it.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
I've never been that starstruck in mind.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
No.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, I was like email. I wanted to give her
my personal email account to just be like email us now.
I said, say hi to your dad for me. It was.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
It was hilarious, fun, gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
It was a beautiful. If you admit to other people's
crimes to us in person, we'll imagine you on the podcast.
We will listen, we will shout it out, and we
will be subpoena in the trial.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
No, Lyne, please, all right? Should we start?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (25:01):
I think now the homework part comes that.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
No, I like my murder are you? This is what
I wanted to do, But I think your first I
think I am.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, so I have because of watching the Killing season
and how heavy it is and how uh it feels
like everyone in the world is a serial killer by
the time you're halfway through with it. In some ways
is a fun feeling. It's fun, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I like it?

Speaker 3 (25:27):
And yet you're still alive.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
We made it everybody. Uh so, so I switched over
as a palette cleanser. I started watching The Crown, which
is a wonderful Netflix series. British procedural. It sounds British,
is it British? It's the story of Queen Elizabeth. I figured, God,
I'm so smart, the newest one. Yeah, it's so in

(25:50):
a way, it is kind of a British procedural.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Wait, it's the newest show about the about.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
About like how she got became the queen and what
her life was like. She's a total badass. There's parts
in it. I want the Crown TV show to come
out with their own book on how to be politely assertive,
because that's her. And also I want them to come
out with the color of lipstick that she's wearing, because

(26:15):
it's this perfect shade of pinkish red that would actually
look at it. I can't wear red because my teeth's
yellow is a little corn nibblets very fair.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
I'm very fair with.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Red in my skin, so red lipstick on me makes
me look like I have been smoking crack in the alley.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
I look like a fucking what do they call them?
A rockabilly and it's obnoxious.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, well this is like this muted brownish pink lipstick.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
I bet it's I bet they make it for her.
That's not Eve the thing you can buy you I beIN.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Well, we have a fucking lip gloss that was made
for us too, that that girl sent us.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
That's remember so the Queen. I'm sorry it's not that buckets,
but I.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Want the queens because it because we've started doing coke before,
back to being fourteenth so as so I blended into
this very British kind of fancy regal area, like controlled,
yes and aristocratic, which is I mean like if if

(27:17):
I was in that time, I would be like truly
the dishwasher in the bottom part of the basement, like.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Do you need a candy'll stick?

Speaker 1 (27:27):
And I wouldn't, but with an Irish accent, which for
some reason I can't do right now. So I decided
that my murder is going to be that the infamous,
infamous story of Lord Luken.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Have you ever heard of him? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Okay, this one's pretty good because it involves British aristocracy
and a disappearance. You know, I love disappearances, all right, So,
and also I was going to do this story after
remember when we did Harmontown and then we met that
British couple outside on the street and they were on

(28:01):
their honeymoon.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Oh, they were so sweet.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
They were so sweet and they were just getting tattoos
and they were having like this amazing honeymoon and they'd
come to see us, and they didn't even ask for
a photo, which is like they didn't they know Americans
do that. Yeah, they didn't want a photo. They kind
of want us to go away a little bit. But
they were like, hi, we came to see. We came
from England to see, which meant the world to me.
We didn't get their names, no, but high shout out

(28:24):
if you're still listening.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Sweet angels, pit Pip. That wasn't a fucking pander to
the audience when I said sweet baby Angels, No, that
was natural. That felt It felt very natural.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
So I was thinking of doing Lord Luken after we
met them, of like, hey, this is shout out to you.
But that was what six months ago. So I brought
this word document back out and began to fill it
out again. So here's the story of this guy. He
It was born John Bingham and he was born on

(28:55):
December eighteenth, nineteen thirty four to an aristocratic family in
March Early Bone, which is the funniest name for it's
a neighborhood, I guess in London. Oh, you're gonna get
I don't care what you say next, you're going to
get a correction about like what.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
It pronunciation the area London. It's actually in.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Wales, not a neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
It's a fucking it's fucking in New Yorker.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
In New York.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, this whole I'm I once again am flying in
the face of uh of logic and just trying to
be British once again for the fucking nose, game for
the stars, game for that button nose. So John Bingham
during World War Two when he was a boy, he
was evacuated out of uh London, out of Marley Bone,

(29:41):
so it'd be like it's pronounced Meli bin. Yeah, he
was evacuated to Wales and then uh to Canada and
he got to live with his rich like friends of
family sounds relatives, yeah, who are like crazy rich. But
then when he came back to England when the war
or was over, he was sent to Eaton College. Now

(30:04):
I was thinking about this in my head, but I
didn't look it up. I think over there Eaton is
like a boarding school that's like grammar and high school.
It's not necessarily a college like we think.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
They had, like finishing school right where like you pass
your again where you put a book on your head,
save it if you want to fucking email text us
that will tweet us that we're wrong. It's like a.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Someone in England tell us what et No, No, I
don't care, Oh I do care.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
But I think it's like a finishing school. Now I'm
gonna keep saying that till you agree with me.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
This time you said it like you then thinking about it,
and now you've decided it's a finishing school. I think
it's like high school and perhaps like a boarding school.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, okay exactly. Anyhow, finally we agree.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
So when he was there, he supplemented his pocket money with.
He was a bookie and so right, yeah, I think
it's very coral too. He had a secret bank account,
oh my god. And he made money as a kid
as a kid. My grandfather was a bookie for real. Yeah,
barber the barber shop front barber quote quote unquote bookay

(31:16):
nice an. Sorry, So this kid, he would leave the
school grounds, go to horse races, take bets and he
was like the school bookie.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Bad oh cool, love it.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Well.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
The bad part, the uncol part, is that he turned
out to be a terrible, compulsive gambler. Oh later on,
I don't take that back, but when he's a kid,
it's cute. So he got the nickname Lucky Lucan after
winning twenty six pounds at the card game chamendefur in

(31:47):
latour latouquet. None of that's real, none of it is
meaningful to me and anyway, but he won. He won
a game a bunch of pounds, and so that's what
made him think, I'm I am lucky and I should
be doing this all the time. So so uh, when

(32:08):
he got out of school, he was in the army
for a little bit and then he started a job
as a merchant banker. But he had very expensive tastes
because he was still an aristocrat. His parents were very
very what do you call that? I was going to
say staunch, but that's from Gray Gardens. It's they didn't

(32:32):
spend a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
They were like religious, and uh, that's the what's the
word when you try to I'm like making a gesture
on my chest.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, like frugal, frugal, frugal.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
There we go.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
This gesture worked for me.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
How long did that take? This podcast is two hours long.
It's because we're trying to remember words that neither of us.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Could enjoy this.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
It's mad. Stephen is like, can you get your fucking
ship together?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Okay. So he had.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
A very expensive taste because he was still an aristocrat
at the end of the day, and he was raised,
you know, by rich people in North America, so he
he had tastes for the best Russian vodka. He liked
to raise power boats. And then and from this lift
of in Wikipedia. Donate to Wikipedia, by the way, if

(33:23):
only just three dollars, Oh can you donate to Wikipedia? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, it's all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
They're they're actually having like they're kind of like public
television right now, and they're trying to get people to
to give them money because they just they need to
stick around.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
I think so many questions. I mean, I love Wikipedia,
but I won't ask them right now.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
If you click on there right now, the thing will
come up to say, please give us three dollars, okay,
and then we'll do it.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
That's yeah, I mean it seems fair for all the
shit they get.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Oh the hours I spent when I had a desk
job looking at unsolved murders and serial killers and love it.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
So anyway, this guy, basically he's living the life. He
likes the best of all things. I was just gonna
say at the end of this sentence, they were like
he had the best tastes. He loved the best you know,
he raised boats. He he loved Russian vodka and smart cars,
which I think in England probably means smart like cool cars,
but here means tiny toy looking cars that are the

(34:22):
stupidest looking cars you could drive.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I just time travel too, because those didn't exist, Like
how cool would that be if he were just.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Like They're like he invented the smart car?

Speaker 2 (34:31):
All right? Anyway.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
He was also very charismatic.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
He was six foot two with a quote from Wikipedia,
a luxuriant mustache like s Evens, and he was once
considered to play the role of James Bond. Oh shit,
so he's that. You see a picture of him on Wikipedia.
He's pretty cute. Yeah. Yeah, he's very British aristocratic looking,

(34:54):
kind of like.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Pot he knows, I won't.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
It's a high class, you know, British thing, pointing and
kind of like he looks like he'd be.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Like very good, hey man, my husband, My husband is
the spitting image of Prince Williams. That's exactly right. I'm
into British. Yeah, no complaints.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Also, at one point, he was ranked among the top
ten the world's top ten backamm employers.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
So you have.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Kind of cool badass yeah, talk about sex.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I mean, I don't know what backammon is exactly, but
I bet it's hard.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
It's you know what it is. It's like chess for
drunk people, is what it is, all right.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
It still sounds like I don't think I like chess
for drunk people.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
To me is like bingo, connect four is chess? That's
right for drunk people?

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Yeah, bingo? Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
So he meets his wife, Roonica Duncan at a golf
club function and they get married on November twenty, nineteen
sixty three. And when they get married, so Lord Lucan's
finance is when he was a young man and he
was gambling so much. It got a little iffy in
there because he was just like going for it and
like I'm in a boat race, I have to have
an aston Martin. You know. He was like living the

(36:09):
life and spending all that money. So when he marries
Veronica Duncan, his father gives him what was called a
marriage settlement, so he gets a big chunk of money
to buy a house to prepare for having kids like
this whole so he's basically kind of like up in
up in the in the black sexist.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
I got it. Two months after he gets married, I
called him old Man Lucan.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Old Man Luken dies of a stroke, and so John
Bingham inherits two hundred and fifty pounds and his father's titles,
which are Earl of Luken, Baron Lucan of Castle, bar
Baron Lucan of Melcombe, Lucan and Baronet Bingham of Castle.
I know what any of this means. It's meaningless, so
cute the mean emails. It's not meaning it's super meaningless.

(37:01):
Don't shoot foxes, right, everybody?

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Uh okay.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
So the problem is that he has a very serious
gambling problem. So at first it was hot and cute
and he's James Bond, and after a while it's like,
put the fucking Backyamon down, what are you doing? And
he's spending, still spending money like an aristocrat. So he's like,
you know, he's he's got an open account at Savile
Row Tailor's you know what I mean, people are making

(37:27):
those spoke clothing for him. Yeah, look at you, Karen.
I know I want to be rich, really bad, really bad.
Really not just rich, though, I want to be well,
I want to be like Lord Lukean, I want to
be an aristocrat.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
What would you do?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
What would you like?

Speaker 3 (37:44):
I guess I would just drink and smoke cigarettes all day?

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Because you can.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
You can just do it at that point, because you can.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
You can kind of yeah, you can just kind of well,
it's the same thing you can do if you were
basically a bum.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Remember that intervention where the woman had like inherited so
much money that she was like, why should I not
be an alcoholic? And then she they were going to
take her to a rehab that was like a fourteen
hour like a five hour flight, but she insisted on
getting a limo because she wanted to bring her cats
with her.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
She put her cats in the limo, all the kind
of vess. She took a cat road trip.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, she like put cat boxes in, like she's me
if I just had she would get it. And like
no one could say an ignore because like she wasn't
going to lose anything because she was Did it work?
Did she get sober? I don't know if there's maybe
there's hopefully there's a follow up. I don't know, man,
it's been I haven't. I stopped watching that because it's
real depressing. It turns out she ate all those cats.

(38:35):
She got really drunk and then she got hungry and
she ate those cats. Oh it was probably I mean, sorry,
fucking no, great Field loving it, left Field. There's there's
a downside to being an addict. I think we all
know this. We've tried to tell you over and over. Yeah, okay,
So so he and his wife have three kids, George

(38:57):
and Camilla and a third one that for some reason
is no on this list.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
And some of it, you know, the youngest kid never matters.
Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, seriously, I'm living that life. That's why we're Murder podcast. Yeah,
that's that's why we're doing what we do. So Veronica
is struggling because she also has three kids in this
very short amount of time, of course, so she's struggling
with postnight natal depression. Honey, and Lord Lucan takes her
for treatment at a psychiatric clinic. She refused to be admitted,

(39:27):
but she did agree to home visits from a psychiatrist
and taking course of antidepressants. So she's trying to take
care of it, but she won't like, you know, really
go take a full break or whatever.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
She's like, I can handle this.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Well.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Then that combined with the pressures of maintaining their finances
and his I mean he I read this thing. I
didn't include it, but there was a thing of like
how he would spend his days. Oh my god, it's
so hilarious because you would like get up and eat
breakfast and then go to his gaming club and just
gamble all after my own gamble. Yeah, and you know

(40:01):
he was probably drinking too, of course, and then he
would come home and get dressed and then put on
like his tuxedo to wreaking cigarettes probably oh yeah, and
you can't wash that off after while. And then he
just went out to drink and eat and smoke and
gamble more. That was just that's all he did all
the time. I would have that's not post snatal depression,
that's fucking depression. Yeah, that she had because she was like,

(40:23):
what the fuss is not what I fucking so went
to finishing school for so basically in the two weeks
after a very strained family Christmas in nineteen seventy two,
Lord Lucan moved out and then they get into this
bitter custody battle and the justice awards custody to Veronica.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Divorce like didn't happen back then? Yeah, it wasn't good.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
And I'm sure for aristocrats and you could push him
off the couch. Ellis is ripping up Karen's notes, my
precious writing. Okay, So, so she is awarded custody of
the three kids, and that's all he wanted, and so.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Why would he want just to fuck with her?

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Right think? Well, no, no, no, he really, I'm sure really
loved his children and it was very important to him.
But also I think it was part of this thing
that he didn't think she was a fit mother, knowing
that she had postnatal depression. I think he was partly
worried and then also partly he was an addict and
needed to control things.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Maybe I don't know, there's something going on.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
He gets awarded like every other weekend visit, and he
gets really obsessive about it. So he starts spying on
her to prove she's an unfit mother. He's recording their
phone conversations. He becomes fixated on her and what's happening.
He also is His drinking gets really bad and his gambling.

(41:50):
He goes crazy with the gambling, and all of his
friends are like he's in a downward spiral. And then
all of a sudden, the week of November seventh in
nineteen seventy four, he seems to like suddenly be pull
it together and he there's a couple store firsthand stories

(42:10):
of people who like had dinner with him and they
tried to talk to him about whatut what's going on
with the kids, and he changes the topic to politics,
and so they're like, oh, maybe he's rounded the corner.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Maybe he's out of his system.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, So on the evening of November seventh, nineteen seventy four.
He had a bunch of plans with people that he
didn't He just didn't show up. And that night, the
children's nanny, Sandra Rivett, puts the younger children to bed,
and at about eight fifty five, she asks Ronica if

(42:43):
she if she'd like a cup of tea, and so
she head downstairs to the basement kitchen. So there, that's
a fucking sweet ass mansion. Yeah, I'll go down to
the to the maid's kitchen. I'm not going to use
your nice, high class kitchen to mike tea. So she
goes downstairs to the basement kitchen to make Ronica some tea,

(43:05):
and as she enters the room, she is bludgeoned to
death with a lead pipe, a piece of bandaged lead pipe,
and her killer places her body in a canvas mail sack. So, meanwhile, upstairs,
Lady Lucan wonders what's delaying the nanny, so she walks

(43:26):
down the first floor stairs to see what's happened, and
she calls from the top part of the stairs. She
calls down to Rivet and to see what's going on,
and the guy comes up and attacks her with the
lead pipe as well. Oh my god, and she starts
screaming for her life. The attacker tells her to shut up,

(43:48):
and that's when Lady Lucan knows. She tells the cops
later that she knows it's her husband.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
So she survives. This guy's got like a mask on
or something.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
I think the lights were out, like it was dark,
so she's kind of calling down.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
She doesn't know what's.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Going on, and then this guy comes up and she
thinks she's just getting attacked, and then she realizes it's
her husband, according to her, so they get into this fight.
She bites his fingers, He throws her face down in
the carpet, and she she manages to turn around and
squeeze his testicle, releasing Steve Stephen just really felt that,

(44:27):
causing him to release his grip on her throat and
give up the fight. She asks where Rivet is and
Lucan was at first evasive, then eventually admits that he
just killed her. So what they believe is that he
thinks he thought it was Veronica walking into the basement kitchen.
He was trying to kill his wife, and he accidentally

(44:47):
killed the nanny.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
So this is according to Lady Lucan. So Lady Lucan
is terrified.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
She tells him she'll help him escape if he would
just well, she's trying to get so she says, I'll
help you escape. You just have to stay here for
a couple of days and hide out and allow my
injuries to heal because she's been hit with the lead
pipe and everything. Oh my god, so Lucan h she
walks upstairs. I'm sorry, Lord Lucan. That the oldest daughter

(45:20):
wakes up, so he goes to put her to bed,
and she and then the wife, Veronica, goes into the
bedroom lays down. She's bleeding, and he puts down towels
for her, and it like, don't get don't get the
bedding stained her blood, So uh, he asks her, does

(45:44):
you have any barbituates? He goes into the bathroom to
get a towel and supposedly clean her face, and that's
when Lady Lucan realizes that he won't be able to
hear her if he's in the bathroom, and so she runs.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Out of the house.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
But their kids still there.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Though. Yeah, but but I think she knew that he
didn't want that it was about her, and that the
attack was about her because she also did report earlier
that he had once hit her with a cane and
once tried to push her down the stairs. So there
he had gotten physical with her before, but he I
think she trusted that he wasn't going to harm their children. Yeah,

(46:22):
I mean crazy, That's what it seemed like. So she
runs out of the house and she runs to a
nearby public house called the Plumber's Arms. Gland, let's go
get a drink. That we have to go to a
pub called the Plumber's Arms. So what like big hairy
arms with a tattoo, Like, what kind of bulldog tattoo

(46:44):
is that?

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah, a bulldog would be good.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah. Or an anchor of of course, an anchor or
maybe just a just a queen Elizabeth's face. I mean
she's a mad ass.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Everybody loves her.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
Everyone loves Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Okay, So the police, she they called the police. The
police go to the house, but meanwhile, Lord Lucan has
called his own mother and tells her of a terrible
catastrophe that's happened at his wife's home. He tells his mother,
you have to come here and get the children. Then
he drives a borrowed car to his friend's house in Uckfield,

(47:24):
East Sussex, and then hours later he leaves that property,
leaves the car there, and he's never seen again and
has never been seen since, no, swear to God. So
that car was found, Yes, he's the one missing. He disappeared.

(47:45):
He disappeared. So no, this is I was not expecting that. Yeah,
James Bond is out and about dude. He the car
was found abandoned in new Haven and the interior was
stained with blood, and the trunk had a piece boot
for those of our friends in England, had a piece
of bandage lead pipes similar to the one found at

(48:06):
the crime scene. So there's one that Nanny was killed
with that was left at the crime scene, and there's
another one that's in this borrowed car. And we don't
know what.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Well, why was all the blood in the car And
we don't know what's that lad?

Speaker 1 (48:19):
He was covered in blood, okay, And I don't know
if there were two. There's no explanations, just I'm not
surely shit sou But then also he left it a
letter to the owner of the car that said, my
dear Michael. So he basically borrows this car from this
guy He's like, hey, can I borrow your car for
a while, and then just gets blood all in it,
abandons it and it's crazy, and he says, my dear Michael,

(48:43):
I have had a traumatic night of unbelievable coincidence. However,
I won't bore you with anything or involve you, except
to say that when you come across my children, which
I hope you will, please tell them that you knew
me and that all I cared about was them. The
fact that a crooked solicitor and a psychiatrists destroyed me
between them will be of no importance to the children.

(49:04):
I gave Bill shaned Kid, which is his brother in law.
I gave Bill shann Kid an account of what actually happened,
But judging by my last effort in court, no one
yet yet alone a sixty seven year old judge would believe.
And I no longer care except that my children should
be protected. Yours ever, John, So he's basically saying, whatever

(49:26):
happened at the house was some weird coincidence that he
happened upon his excuses that and I think there was
a It was in a different letter that he walked
into the house and his wife was being attacked by
an intruder, which the wife is like, no, I'll tell
you exactly how it happened, like step by step. Yeah.
And then also you can trace it all back to
the car and the blood everything else the way. So

(49:48):
they put out a warrant for his arrest a couple
days later, and in his absence, the inquest into Rivet's
death named him as her murderer, which was the last
time ever that Britain's Corner's Court was ever allowed to
do that. So they were basically like, this guy did it, oh,
which you can't do a trial. Yeah. So a thorough

(50:13):
search of new Haven Downs was judged impossible. I don't
know if that's what's new Haven Downs? What's a thorough
search anything in this fucking world. I pictured new Haven
Downs to be just full of a bunch of brambles,
charming as fuck. It's like the Moors, but brambley brambles everywhere,

(50:35):
brambles and scones or scones scones. A partial search was
made using tracker dogs, although all that was found were
the skeletal remains of a judge who had disappeared years earlier.
I'm sorry, what, yes, yes, So they when they do
search New Haven Downs, this impossible to search area.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
They unrelated.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Unrelatedly, they find skeletal remains of a judge. All right,
maybe how about once a year you search new Haven Downs.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Get some fucking puppies out there.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
They love doing it. Give him a run around. It's
fun for them. Find a judge. Police Divert searched the harbor.
So basically they went everywhere and tried to find this guy.
This guy's more important than a fucking judge.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
That's right. Clearly he's a way bigger deal.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
He is among the top ten backgame and players in
the world. You have to find him, must find him.
They don't find so basically they can't find anything. They
used infrared photography and they don't. I don't see where
smart cars they smartphones. So warrant for Lucan's arrest to

(51:42):
answer charges of murdering Sandra Rivet and attempting to murder
his wife was issued on Tuesday, November twelfth, nineteen seventy four,
and descriptions of his parent appearance were issued to Interpol.
So it could be Internacio now and of course all
across the UK. So apparently it's this. It's since that

(52:06):
time been a great British pastime to theorize where Lord
Lucan is and people love saying they saw him places.
So the reports have been coming in pretty consistently year
after year saying I saw Lord Luken hare or there
and so.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Some of the.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Places they have reported him seeing him was as a
hippie dropout in Goa.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Which I don't know. I don't know where that is,
doubt where he was known.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
They said he was known there as jungle Berry, as
you do, the best nickname of all time, is it?
They said he was about backpacking out Mount Etna. Someone
said they saw him working on a sheep station in
the Australian outback.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Those all sound like things people who run away from
life would do, yeah, to get as far away as.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Possible, like trying to not have an identity anymore.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Right, which would make sense.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
But John Aspinall, who was the owner of the Claremont
Gaming Club, which is the place he used to go
like around lunchtime every single day, said told the News
I find it difficult to imagine him in Brazil or
Haiti as a fugitive. I don't think he has the
capacity to adapt, which is kind of rough. There was
also a rumor Aspinall owned a private zoo, and so

(53:26):
there was a rumor that he was cut up and
fed to the tigers at that zoo, and he Aspinall,
when told that rumor, responded, my tigers are only fed
the choicest cuts. Do you really think they're going to
eat stringy old lucky?

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
The most plausible theory is that he drowned himself in
the channel. That's what most people think. But here's this
is just an interesting, another coincidental thing. Thirteen years later.
So when they had that nanny, the Sandra Rivett was

(54:04):
their nanny, but they had had a nanny right before her,
and her name was Crista Belle. I can't find her
last name. Uh, well, Crista Bell Bell. Uh, you don't
see it, but her name is Crista Bell something or other.
And turns out she was married to an economist named

(54:26):
Nicholas Boyce and on October tenth, nineteen eighty five, Nicholas
Voice was sent to prison for dismembering his wife and
dumping her pieces of her body around London. So it
was her the nanny one before this one we got
caught up also was murdered by her.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Fancy husband.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Uh so, fancy husbands are just fucking running them up.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
They went nuts so crazy, sure, which I thought was Oh.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
And also.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
They convicted him of manslaughter but not murder, and he
was sentenced to six years in jail.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Oh that's not big, dal Man, no big.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Just just kill her and throw her arms and legs
around the city.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
And then, yes, so I cannot that's the story.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Oh sorry, it was christ of Bell thirty two was
a former governess of the children of Lord Lucan, who
vanished without a trace after another nanny was battered to
death at his home.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
Do you think he did it?

Speaker 2 (55:29):
What killed Lucan or whatever?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
The fuck killed the second nanny? The first nanny?

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Hell yes, wait both nannies? No, no, no, no, the
second one got killed by her husband.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Oh okay, later, okay.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
That was later on, thirteen years later, the second nanny
gets killed in what is a coincidence, but is super
creepy because what the fuck is going on? I thought
it was the first. Okay, yeah, no, but the first.
I'm sure the way everything oh yeah adds up. It's
just basically, where did he go after did he immediately
kill himself or did he actually go he's dB Cooper. Yeah,
did he shave that that luxuriant mustache off and go

(56:03):
live somewhere for a while. You could go anywhere you
want back then. And also with all his money, Oh
fie charming and you know, miss Dapper, he probably makes
like Monte Carlo or something.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
That's what I was thinking too. How old is he now?
How old is he dead?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
He's dead now that he was proclaimed to be dead,
I don't know, Like how old would he be? Like
in his the article that I said where they proclaimed
him dead, I think they said he was like would
have been eighty one or eighty two.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
That's livable, especially if you're living the fucking Backham in
high life and fucking Monty.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Carlo Bacama doesn't take that much out of you.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
No, yeah, now, and if you're just pickled with gin,
you can live for a really long time that you
he's still alive.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
I mean, it would be pretty cool. We should make
a rule that people have to confess stuff on their death,
Like on their deathbed, they have to confess things, yeah,
like you're not.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Yeah, that'd be nice, wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
It, Just to solve a couple of mysteries like Stot
don't take shit to your grave.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Yeah, you're bring a selfish dick. So that's my good times.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
I was amazing.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
I had class murder mystery from England.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
Never heard that one. Please let us know all the
mistakes from that one as soon as you can, or don't.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Or go go you know, every time you get mad
at this podcast, go give three dollars to Wikipedia.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
We're gonna solve all of Wikipedia's problems. It's gonna be
like they're gonna be like, thank you. We got an
influx of thousands and thousands of so much money.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Mmmmmmmm Ready for the summer Hill road murders. Yes, dude,
this is one of these. This is one of those
ones I've wanted to do for so long.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
Okay, all right, quick SIPs, quick sip.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
So Fayetteville, North Carolina, it's near Fort Bragg. Let's talk
about nineteen eighty five. Okay, all right. So that Sunday,
May twelfth, an army sergeant named Bob Seefeldt and his
wife noticed that the papers were piling up on their
neighbor store step and they were.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Like, what's going on? And you know, we haven't seen her.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
In a couple days and her cars in the driveway. Oh.
The people that were living there was a woman named
Catherine Eastbourne. She was the mother to five year old
Kara and three year old Aaron, as well as Jana,
who was twenty one months Her husband, Gary Eastbourne, was
away attending an Air Force Captain in training school in Alabama,

(58:39):
so he was out of town. They knew that she's
not fucking around. What's going on. They heard a baby
crying when they went to look at the house. They
look in a window and see Janna, the twenty one
month old, standing by herself in her crib. Her arms
were outstretched to them that for some reason, fucking Bob
is like, let's wait till the cops get here before

(58:59):
we break in. The cops get there, they break in,
they find Jana. She's severely dehydrated, so dehydrated, and when
I fucking I remember hearing this a while back that
I think about it all the time. Her teeth were black.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Oh, and she had hours left to live.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Oh my god, I know. They passed her through the
window to the neighbor and then they go to look
through the rest of the house. So in the master bedroom,
they find the five year old Aaron, lying on the
floor by the bed. Her throat's been cut. On the
other side of the bed is Katie the mom. She's

(59:37):
bound with rope, her blouse and bra bulled apart. She's
naked from the waist down. Her throat is cut and
she has multiple stab wounds to her body. I know,
fucked up shit. Yeah. Two doors down from the bedroom
they find Kara, the three year old. It's really awful.

(59:59):
She he's stabbed to death as well. She's under her blanket.
It looks like she's almost like hiding under her blanket
and she's abted a and also Katie the mom was
raped all three head severed throats Bill, I know, guess
what day it was that they found her Mother's day,
nineteen eighty five, all right, So the witnesses, So, one

(01:00:23):
neighbor says he saw a man leave there a home
at about three am after the murders are thought to
have taken place. Based on you know, the autopsy, she
said she saw a white chavette park near the crime scene.
Then a man who lived in the area named Patrick
Kohane and approaches and says that he saw a man
leaving the residence three nights before when the murder was

(01:00:45):
supposed to happen, and he says, quote, I was walking
home from my girlfriend's house about three thirty am. As
I was walking, I saw a white Chavette parked on
the road. Then I saw this white dude walking down
the lady's driveway. I passed right by him and I'm
getting an early start this morning or something like that.
Then I watched him get in his white Chavette and
drive off. He describes the man very thoroughly. He's six

(01:01:11):
or four blonde. He had on at black beanie at
black member's only jacket, white shirt, blue jeans.

Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
Had was like carrying a bag over his shoulder. It
just makes me think of that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Did you see that graphic, that infographic where it said
like in your life, you'll walk by a murderer thirty
six times. Yes, that's amazing. That was one of the
thirty six. I think so or so in the thirties.
It was so it's so high, I know for that,
it just made me think, oh, that's scary, it's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
So three days after the murders, the cops find out
that three that a couple of days before the family
had been killed. They had put in a classified ad
to get their dog adopted because they were leading the country.
So the katie is by herself at home and a
man answers the ad and comes and gets the dog

(01:02:06):
during the day and they are like, who the fuck
is this dude, here's a composite sketch. They put it
on the fucking news. The man who adopted the dog,
his name is Tim Hennis, was watching the news that
night and was like, shit, that's the dog we adopted,
and I look a lot like that sketch. So he

(01:02:28):
goes to the police. He answers all their questions. He
doesn't get an attorney. He gives them samples of hair, blood, semen, everything,
he just he's really cooperative.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
But he drives a white Chevette. Oh no, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
They let him go because they don't have enough evidence
to arrest him. But later the night they go back
with a warrant for him and arrest him. So the
night that they thought the women got or the mom
and the kids got killed, so Tim Hennis had dropped
his wife and their daughter off at his parent in law's.

(01:03:05):
Then he drives to an ex girlfriend's house propositions her,
she shoots him down. He says he went home a dinner,
watch TV, and went to bed the Friday morning. They
thought that was Thursday night. The morning after, he takes
a single item to the dry cleaners, a black member's
only jacket. Dude. The only things that were stolen from

(01:03:27):
the house, it seems, are a debit card and some cash,
and so one hundred and fifty dollars is taken out twice.
That's the limit, so three hundred dollars. And it turns
out that Tim Hennis is three hundred dollars short on rent,
which he pays the Monday after these murders. Then a
woman identifies him as being the man she saw at

(01:03:48):
the same time that she was there at the ATM
all right, so a forensic expert goes in there. He
six months later finds a condom package undiscovered by the police,
underneath the dresser. So he fucking finds a condom wrapper.
So according to him and his forensic expertise, he says

(01:04:11):
that the condoms suggests consensual sex.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Because very rarely did a.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Rapist carry condoms to commit their violent acts, which I
want to fucking call bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
On immediately in the eighties, they probably thought that. But
of course you don't want to leave DNA or any behind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
I just don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
I just hate that argument that, well, if there was
a condom on, then you had time to fight, or
it was consensual somehow. Oh no, you know what I mean,
Like that pisses me off. Well, yeah, that's insanity, that's
what he says. He said that. So the man Paul
Stambach concludes that the murders were committed by two assailants

(01:04:57):
and that the little girls might have been killed because
they could identify the killer. But he says someone said
that they they were killed because they could identify the killer.
But he says that the girls were asleep when when
they got killed. Okay, So this dude, Tim Hennis goes

(01:05:18):
to trial and the jury returns with a guilty verdict
and he sentenced to three life sentences. Oh shit, yeah, no, no, no,
I'm sorry. He sentence sentenced to death three times?

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, because they're pissed. They're like, yeah,
you killed little girls, yeah yeah, setting an example.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Right when he's getting booked, he receives a postcard this
guy Tim Hennis, from someone calling themselves, mister X, and
it says, dear mister Hennis, I did the crime. I
murdered the Eastbourns. Sorry you're doing the time. I'll be
safely out of North Carolina when you read this. Thanks
mister X. Fuck, thank you, mister X.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Right, who is that? And the prosecution got that too,
who is that?

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Who is that? Mister X? So he's on death row
for two years and then the defense is arguing to
get him out of you know, to get this conviction overturned.
They argue that the crime scene photos that the jury
saw were so gruesome and awful that it swayed the
jury's decision, and his conviction is overturned in nineteen eighty nine,

(01:06:30):
and they he gets sent back for a retrial. So
he's convicted and then it's overturned and he goes back
for a retrial.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
But sorry, but how can a picture sway?

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Like just having to look at that, there is no
way that they could then get from there and make
a decision.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
They put up these huge photos of it, you know,
over his head, and we're hammering, you know, the crime
scene photos, the autopsy photos of little girls. Oh no,
we're hammering at home and saying you know, there was
no there was no way the jury would would not
want to convict someone for doing this stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Well, and also the jury was traumatized by having to
be hard of that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Yeah, I feel so bad for those people. So I mean,
what do you think about that being overturned on those
based on that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
I mean, you know, it just immediately makes me think
of the staircase and like those people where when we
think of like the prosecutor, you give them all this credit,
like you think, oh, these are going to be people
who are presenting a faircase fairly as opposed to people
who have an immediate bias and want to win their case.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
An agenda thing to do it. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I mean, and if you think about the the evidence
against him, we really don't have anything other than you know,
some witness statements and the fact that he was there
a couple of days beforehand getting the dog.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Yeah, he has no alibi that night.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
It's bad news for him because it's almost like you
were present it in a way where I was like, oh,
this poor guy. But then the more things you said,
I was like, it's totally that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
Could you it's so obvious.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
Yeah, it's the Oukham's razor thing, right, it's like this,
there's no, it's not can't be a coincidence.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Well that's why I love this case.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
It's fucking it gets worse, Okay, don't worry, it gets worse.
So at his second trial, all the witnesses are wishy washy,
and the prosecution argues this and that, you know, and
they break under pressure, and so it's kind of all convoluted.
And then the defense for Tim Hennis were able to

(01:08:34):
find a dude.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Who Okay, so this dude would walk the neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Late at night.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
He was six four sam Hi, this Tim Hennis, and
he admitted to always wearing a member's only jacket, a
black beanie, a white T shirt, and dark corduroy pants,
and carrying a book bag over her shoulder. He walks
in the courtroom. He's a spitting fuck image of Tim Henn. No, yes, no, yes,
all right, spitting image. Somehow this dude a agreed to

(01:09:08):
fucking do this. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Wouldn't you be like, I think it's time for me
to move to San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Goodbye. So Tim Hennis acquitted on all counts and viction
overturned acquitted. Now, sorry, but they're not. They didn't prosecute
that guy. They were just saying, it's possible. Yeah, that's
something they saw someone else. They kind of like all
the like, all the eyewitnesses they were able to discredit

(01:09:34):
for whatever reason. Okay, so there was, you know, nothing
really tying him to the murder.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
And members only jackets were crazy popular in nineteen eighty five.
That's that's true. Fifteen tall blonde men wearing members only jackets.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Oh my god, there are so many of them everywhere. Yeah, okay,
let's go all right, this is eighty nine. Let's go
to two thousand and seven. Okay, DNA is a thing, now, God,
thank god. So there's DNA inside Kate, the mom who
had been raped, although they didn't they didn't specifically say

(01:10:10):
that she had been forcibly raped because the condom theory.
But there was semen inside of her, right, so the
condom could have nothing to fucking do with any of this.
The results of the DNA task from the semen inside
of Kate showed with with twelve million to one certainty

(01:10:32):
that the semen belonged to Tim Hennis. Oh no, right,
but he had already been acquitted. Oh no, so motherfucking
double jeopardy right, Uh, it's so double jeopardy is prohibited
by the Fifth Amendment. It means that you can't get

(01:10:52):
tried for something that you'd already been acquitted for. She
seems like it needs to be fucking fixed and it's stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
But no, no, no, I mean considering DNA now like
in this situation. But that's no, it's a good law
because it's like saying they can't just keep on coming
at you and being like, we did we believe it's
you like, if they've proven yeah, if they if we
didn't come through it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
But in a perfect system, when those prosecutors go to
the judge with new evidence, the judge will will will
you know, judge that evidence and say whether or not
it's you know, it's it's worth a new trial.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
But they'll never be a perfect system because it's a
human system.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
That's the problem with life.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
So you can't just keep on going like, well, here we're.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Going to do it again, and this time it's going
to because then it could just be like if you
had a crazy prosecutor that won't leave you alone.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Well, guess what they did it a third time? What
they took them to trial? How well, I'll fucking tell
you how I ask as if I'll never find out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
I don't know. Thanks us, the end of my story. Okay,
So Tim Hennis had been a soldier in the US Army,
so the the state can't try him, but the army can. Oh,
the military can because he'd been a soldier. The US

(01:12:15):
Army could could, And the federal government is a sovereign
authority separate from the individual states that make up the country. Okay,
So Tim, at this time, Tim Hennis, who's forty nine
years old, retired as fuck from the army just chill, laxing,
murdering entire family. So he's retired, and this is a
big fucking point of contention. He is ordered out of

(01:12:38):
retirement and back into active duty just so they could
court martial him for the murders.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Yeah seems unfair, right, I mean, just if a devil's advocate,
if he was innocent.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Unprecedented. Yeah, Like, and this argument of like, who has
final say, are you bigger than the fucking you know,
it's government shit.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
It's government shit. If the government wants you, they're gonna
get you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
You fucked.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
So at the fucking court martial trial, his attorney, Sam
Hennison's attorney brings up the possibility because they had found
semen in Hragina that maybe they had had consensual sex,
even though he had never admitted to that and he
didn't say that, the attorney did, and the fucking jury
was like, are you like? That's what you're bringing up now?

(01:13:26):
So they find him guilty on three counts of premeditated murder.
But guess what, the statute of limitations had expired on rape,
so he didn't get Can we please talk about statute
of limitations on rape?

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
I feel like they're getting rid of that. I feel
like there's some stays where they've gotten rid of it. Yeah,
it's in action, I believe. It's just I just want
to bring it up. How fucking disgusting that is. No,
you're exactly right. It just makes me in the same
exact way that it's disgusting that Mike Pence wants women
to have funerals for their phoenixes for miscarriages. Miscarriages. It's

(01:14:03):
truly insanity. It's hurtful and mean and fucking it's spiteful,
and it's assuming. It's just so controlling and insane. It's
so controlling. Okay, found guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Uh So, now he's on death row, like right, fucking now,
this is in twenty ten. He's on death row in
an army facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Okay, now let's
get to a couple of random things before we decide everything. Okay, Okay, Okay.
So in his case, there's no blood, fingerprints, or fiber
evidence that connects him to the murder, and he has

(01:14:39):
an alibi for the ATM visit, which is a little shaky.
I'm not saying he didn't do it. I'm just saying, like,
here's some weird shit because I really don't know, right.
Two former FBI assistant directors released a report concluding that
the unit that the unit that had tested his DNA
and found that it was in her vaginal swab that

(01:15:04):
they had overstated, misreported, or withheld blood blood evidence in
dozens of cases, including three that ended in executions.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Oh no, they the okay this quote.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
They had to throw out cases and cases because the
results were either doctored wrong or covered up. The lab
was shown to be a total tool for the state's prosecutors.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Oh no, right, wait and this was in sorry, this
was in North Carolina. Uh yeah, okay or Kansas one.
I don't want to be wrong. You started in North Carolina. Yeah,
but now but he's in Kansas. Oh because of basility,
I gotta.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Got it, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
So let's really so basically, they're just like, we're going
to send this off to here and get exactly what
we want back.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Yeah, and they're proven to be incorrect, but we're not
gonna check back in with those crimes. And I'm pretty
sure those swabs were held in a box that were
unrefriged rated that on the box of evidence said Tim
Hennis's name, not the name of the murder victims. Like
they were already fucking targeting him. They were focusing on him. Yes,

(01:16:12):
this is what they wanted to find. Okay, all right,
So finally, I just want to talk about Julie, who
was the family babysitter of the three little girls. When
they interviewed her, she told the cops that the residents
had been targeted with harassing phone calls, some of the

(01:16:33):
sexual nature, and she said other two other things that
her stepbrothers strongly resembled Tim Hennis and even showed them
photos of it, and that she had been assisting the
vice squad and setting up bus from.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
Local for local drug dealers.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
And she even said on one occasion that she'd been
followed home from the Eastbourne residence by an angry drug dealer. Okay,
but here's the coolest thing, not coolest filling morse. So
she admits to her fascination. She's like a sixteen year
old a fascination with doctor Jeffrey McDonald.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
Fat is that?

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
What's it's the one who was accused, right, Yeah, so
so he's a military officer. He claims a band of
drug craze long haired hippies broken to his home while
he was sleeping on a couch, murdered his pregnant wife
and two and.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Five year old daughters. Yes, sounds familiar, right, Yeah, while
he uh upstairs. He's convicted of the slangs, sentenced to death.
At the time of the murders the family, it was
nineteen seventy, so it was clearly you know, fifteen years difference.
But at the time of the murders, the McDonald family
lived four and a half miles from the fucking Eastburn home.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
What.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
Yeah, and this girl who was the babysitter of these
three little girls, was fascinated and writing him letters, and
they were communicating in prison, and her fucking siblings looked
exactly like these guys, am, and she believed he was innocent.
They wrote all the time they had the Deea had
set up a drug dealer using Julie, this girl Julie

(01:18:11):
and the victim's house that weekend that fell through and
the murders happened, no way, right, Well, she was obsessed
with him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Apparently she was obsessed with Jeffrey McDonald's doctor, Jeffrey donals.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
Wait, that girl, Okay, the babysitters, Like what a rich
life she's living because she's setting up like she's trying
to do like drug stings. Yeah, I mean, and she's sixteen. Yeah,
Jesus Christ. Now, Also, did she was that a secret
to the family that she's like setting these stings up for.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
I don't think the family knew, but she like fucking
blabbed the cops immediately about all this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Oh my fucking god, I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Know, right, Like the it's just too crazy that the
murders are so similar.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
What's your theory?

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
At like, oh, with all of that, well, I'm just saying,
do you think he's innocent or guilty? Oh? You know me,
I can go fucking either way. I think.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
It's that thing of like, I don't know if he's
involved or not, but I don't know if he should
be in prison or not.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
I don't know. It's too circumstantial to me. And the
fact that they didn't get DNA until two thousand and seven,
especially if there was a condom wrapper and that was
their theory. Was it a common rapper or was it
a used condo?

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
I think it was a condom wrapper. So it was
just basically proof that there was a condom somewhere in Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
And the forensic guy was like, I don't know the
sex life between the husband and wife, but this was there, right,
So if you're introducing a condom wrapper and semen oh
and oh no, wait, hold on, there was like a
towel that had blood on it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
There were all these.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
There was a a shoe print that was a size
nine and tim was a size thirteen.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
In blood.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
There was all these. It points to to at least
I know there are more than one. There's more than
one murderer, yeah, or more than one person. Yeah, so
either he did it with someone else or you know,
someone thought there was money in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
They knew this woman was alone.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
The thing.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
To me, the idea of killing children, slashing, stabbing children
to death and slashing there, that's a person who is
beyond like, right, that's a person that is that's no,
that's a person that's not motivated by money or drugs,
because I feel like those people or that has to
be a person that's maybe on drugs bear men's.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
And then you think about the fact that they left
the twenty one month old alive because she couldn't identify anyone,
and you think, Okay. At first, I was like, well,
they must know the assailant. They must know the killer,
otherwise he wouldn't have had to you know, if they
just went in there to rob and rape and even
kill the mother, right they unless. But then the forensic
dude said that they were sleeping, which I don't completely

(01:21:05):
buy because I guess she was like cowering under her
Star Wars blanket, I know, which is heartbreaking. Well, yeah,
I mean it's like, you don't why why you don't
kill children if you're just right, because even even burglars
are just like, I just want to steal shit. You
don't kill children. You don't go from from stealing fucking

(01:21:27):
money to killing children.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Right, And and you don't even if you're retaliating against
someone like a stool pigeon. Who is this sixteen year
old girl? What does a five year old have to
do with that? And then and who has the fucking
like ice cold in their veins to be able to
kill two children and the mother?

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
And then and then why would you leave the right child?
Like it? All of it is like so random. It
just to me what makes sense is that the girl
told information to the wrong people. Maybe she had nothing
to do with it, and she was obsessed with it.
I mean, maybe maybe she did, the fact that she
was obsessed with this killer who killed who maybe killed

(01:22:09):
you know, and that's a whole nother fucking my favorite
murder because we I think we've both talked about that one.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
How Eryl Morris thinks he's innocent.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a whole yeah, fucking episode.
But it's too similar to the fucking murderer she was obsessed.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
With, right, And maybe he's not the murderer, and or
innocent man she's obsessed with because there is the there
why But.

Speaker 3 (01:22:31):
They're still the same, They're still so similar, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Very similar. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Now, it's such a personal thing to stab somebody to death,
it's such an angry thing and such as we all know,
that's like a personal attack. Where has the husband in
any way been introduced into this mix.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
No, Gary is a fucking saint and a good guy.
He he and his he raised Jenna. She's fucking amazing
and wonderful. Like he had nothing to do with it,
right right, Okay for sure. Just I know it seems
like he should and you'd look into it, but I don't.
I really don't think he does. They always you know
your husband, The husband's the first totally. And then I wonder, like, okay,

(01:23:12):
so stabbing is a really personal thing and that, but
that's that's not as gruesome as something like slitting someone's throat,
Like those are two very different fucking Oh but I would.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Argue it's more gruesome because you could one stabbing because
it's repeated, whereas letting someone's story, you can do it
and walk away and know that they're going to bleed
out and die, but have.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
You ever like punch someone and you're like I really
like mid punch, or like I don't want to do this,
and so you kind of do it like weekly like weak. No, no,
I mean I've never punched anyone. I don't think, Oh,
go ahead him in the face, let's do an experiment,
do it now. But I mean, it wasn't it multiple?

(01:23:57):
I mean, like, cut.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
Someone's throat hard enough to fucking kill them.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
I feel like takes more effort than than someone who
doesn't really want to be doing this, you know what
I mean, Like, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
But you don't want to be doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
You're not going to then lightly stab multiple times? Like
that's the That's the thing is, it wasn't If it
were to me, a slashing someone's throat is similar to
it's like you don't have a gun. It's similar to
like a kill shot in the back of the head,
where you're just getting it overworth.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
It, incapacitate them by stabbing them, and then you slip
their throats just fucking end it. But the stabbing part
is the part where you get involved. And that's why
why would you even go through that unless you want to, Yeah,
unless you're okay with the idea of fucking stabbing a human.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
Also, also, she kind of looked like my mom the
mom Kate did. Yeah, I had that like that, uh
somebody's mom hair. Yeah yeah, sorry, go on, no, no, no,
uh no. I'm just thinking, like, it's just so crazy
the fact that they had two witnesses for a person
that was leaving the house at three am, you know

(01:25:06):
what I mean. And also, how can it be that
many coincidences where it's like he was there, he had
the same car, he had the same clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
He went there a couple of days before knew she
was alone in the house.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
Yeah, that's not good for him. I don't think so either.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
It doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
The coincidences that would have to happen for that to
happen are fucking insane. He gets what people think online,
like websloots is like the coolest fucking website and they're
like discussing.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
It, which is all over Killing Season by the way,
it's there, like they talk about webslutes the whole that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
Yeah, so they're like, well, he went to his ex
girlfriend's house that night, got turned down pro boning and
was like horny as fuck, knew a woman who was
home alone, went over there. She turned him down, and
he fucking flipped. Yeah that's a theory. Yeah, and he's
like enraged at women. He's like on a mission.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
But he's never, according to everyone else, the rest of
his life, he's been a fucking decent human being.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Right. He does have some some check forging charges, but
that's not the same thing as Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
But that's something that's well, it's not a totally clean record.
That's not being like a decent being human being. That
means check forging is like you're willing to cheat to
get money. Yeah, it's something I feel like. That's the
way some people start. Yeah, and then you need to
cover your tracks and shit. Yeah, oh my god, I

(01:26:36):
don't know. It's crazy, I don't and horrible in so
many ways. Those poor little babies.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
Oh that's what I wanted to end on, actually, is
that I wanted to end with talking about the victims
because it's like, I don't want to end on this
fucking dick. So Gary, the dad, the father, and the dad,
the tombstones that he had them etched with. So so Aaron, Okay,

(01:27:03):
so Aaron, who's three years old. He had tiny dancer
written on her tombstone. For Kara, who was five, he
had Daddy's Little Shadow. And for Catherine, his wife, he
had You're the sunshine of my life. I just wanted
I just didn't want to end on something that wasn't tragically,

(01:27:25):
so I just wanted to mention them at the end. No, totally,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Of course, I mean, yes, absolutely, but no, that's Karen.
Please please tell me what happened. Okay, here's what happened.
Please only a guy. I got a dog and that
dog was a piece of shit and he was pretty
pissed off.

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
Yeah, that's it. This theory falls apart.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
No, this is that's maddening, and it's the kind of
thing when it introduces the idea that DNA evidence can't
be trusted, that the system can't be trusted, that an
entire prosecutor's office can't be trusted, then it doesn't really
matter what answer did you come up with, because nothing
ever feels like an answer to me.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
The period on the sentence is that there is so
many other DNA hits in that house that there's no
way that the story they're telling us is what happened.
Blood on a towel from like after killing them. It
looks like it was cleaned up. There's a pubic hair

(01:28:25):
in the fucking living room. There's bloody footprints, there's fibers
that and DNA under their under two of their fingernails
that don't match to him. Oh, there's DNA under their fingernails,
and for some reason they refuse.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
To put it through codis.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
That's very weird, isn't it just because they don't want
to introduce something it doesn't match.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
Oh man, So yeah, that's the Summer Hill Road murders
that has fucking stuck with me for years and years.

Speaker 3 (01:28:59):
That's that's amazing. Yeah, wow, Hi, Hi, how are you?

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
I'm ruined? How are you? Yeah? Not great?

Speaker 1 (01:29:11):
No, well fascinating though, Yeah, well because they are. I
just was reading something recently about how I think it's
the hair evidence. Was it hair evidence? Something is being
becoming more reliable than fingerprint something's more reliable. Yeah, Like

(01:29:32):
they're starting to say the fingerprint evidence might not be
as reliable as they thought. Oh my god. Basically, I
think obviously we know that that forensic science is still developing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:43):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Yeah, but I just wish it would move ahead quick,
so we could just find out because that's the confidence
of DNA evidence being the final word. Yeah, that's why
my room goes Okay, well sorry, but it's the evidence so.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Good instead of knowing that humans deal with that DNA
from the it is picked up as evidence at the scene,
it's being picked up by a human too, when it's
tested in the lab to.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
A lab being like own, yeah, prosecutor's office, it's like humans.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
That's just horrifying. I this is why I think that
double jeopardy in the age of DNA and retesting in
the innocence project and all this, we might need to
rethink that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
I don't think so. No, well, because it's like saying
you get the one chance. Well it's yeah, so it's
show shitty that, like, you know, all these all these
defense attorneys are sorry, all these prosecutors and cops, you know,
when they can't bring a trial, They can't bring someone
to trial because they don't have the body, you know,
so they have to wait until they find the body.

Speaker 2 (01:30:45):
Right. It's just dude, I don't know, So you let
this person go free or do you try to fucking
do you try without a body to convict them? I mean, yeah,
you have to do something. Yeah, and if it doesn't,
if it doesn't go well, then in years when the
DNA can be tested or the body is found and
the DNA is tested and it matches, then you should

(01:31:06):
be able to try them. I disagree.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
Punch me in the face, you'll see, that'll prove it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Yeah, all right, forensic scientists out there, keep doing what
you're doing. Angels, shout out tell us things that we do.
Talking about it sounds cool though. Ours are all just feelings,
so many feelings. Do you want to say a good
thing from your week? Do I have one?

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
Do I have a good thing from my week?

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
What do you have?

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
That's like when you're trying to order in a restaurant.
It's like, no, you can go ahead. Fur you go
ahead and you furse okay, tune amount? Uh uh god? Well,
you know we last night, Alison Agassi and I went
and saw the movie Delicatessen, which is, Oh, that's a

(01:32:03):
good many. It's from like the late eighties, I think,
or the early years. Oh that's a fucking art house film.

Speaker 3 (01:32:08):
It's a total art house film. And we saw it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
Sin a family, I guess sin a family would be
my thing of the week because it makes me feel
smart to go there and like a film person.

Speaker 3 (01:32:18):
Lamb, I'm into films.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
And but then also they have just amazing movies where
when you're sitting there, you go, oh, that's why you
have to see these movies on the big screen. Yeah,
and Delicatessen was like the greatest. That's great.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
I guess. Well, last week was Thanksgiving, and I guess
just the family and I had the like, lamest best
Thanksgiving and it was awesome and so stupid and not fake.
And my like year old nephew is there and he's
the best fucking thing I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
Kids are the greatest.

Speaker 2 (01:32:52):
Oh he's an angel baby, as is my six year
old nephew. But you know he's not a baby. No,
he's moved into a different area.

Speaker 1 (01:32:58):
Yeah, but he's great too. So I guess nephews, Okay,
nephews nice? Yeah, all right, well rate review, subscribe, Yeah please,
I mean we're not that's not just fucking lip service.
Please actually do that.

Speaker 3 (01:33:13):
That's not our lip service to you, fake asking.

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
We're genuinely yeah, if you don't mind, that'd be great
and just and just say sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
Oh, goodbye, Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
You want to cook key?

Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
Oh, you want to cook key?

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
He was sleeping, Okay, bye bye, goodbye.