468 - Just Start Screaming

This week, Georgia covers the murder of Fahim Saleh and Karen tells the story of the 2005 Wendy’s severed finger panic.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
That's Georgia Hartstart.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
That's Karen Kilcara.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
We say this every time.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
You guys should know this by now say it along with.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Us, but put your name in and both parts.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
That's Becky Milligan.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
And that is Clarissa Streeter knows.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
It teaches you all. What's the Clarissa Show?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
From Larissa Explains It All show?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I was too old?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah you were, I was the right age for that.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Did she explain it all?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
She explained it all to me. She had great fashion sense.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
And she really what would she explain on a weekly basis?
Like how its socially?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, like moms are tough but in the end they
like have your back or like it's tough when bullies
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
It was like that kind of thing. Okay, but it
wasn't like corny. No, it's like Daria kind of where
it's just like cool. I want to hear something weird
and creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Oh maybe a little sad about me? Aria, neither of us. Okay, great,
just that happened to me.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Oh it's weird.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Okay, this counts as being about you, like okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Okay, So when we got back from the fire after evacuating,
we were home a couple of days. Everything was weird out,
you know, like the sky was weird and there was
ash everywhere. It was just like a creepy time. The
city was like empty. And so I'm walking cookie on
our lawn, our front lawn, and I looked down a
little further up. There's like a plastic bag on the

(01:42):
ground on our lawn. And I approach it and it
looks kind of like just a baggy, like a coke,
like a big bag, you know, like someone had dropped
like a brick of coke, half a brick, not a ton.
And it's just you don't have an idea in today's
In today's money.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Is not enough, right, Brioks too much?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
It was like half a brick.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Brioks too much? Yeah, half is not okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
So I approach it and I really it's like a
messy and I realized it's cremains, Like it's clearly cremains
of something. There's a sticker on it, and there's teethmarks
in it. And so what we figured out is that
while these fires were raging, a coyote must have dug
up some sweet person's sweet pet that passed away, carried

(02:29):
it to our house and left it on our lawn.
So that was fucking But this is like Duram when
the fires are happening, so everything is horrible. Yes, so
that was like felt like an ominous sign. Absolutely, but
you could but I could kind of make out the
like the stuff on the sticker that was clearly from
the place where the animal had been cremated.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
So you're positive it was an animal.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes, because the name was Freda. It just said Frida.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Are you positive it's not a person?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
It says guardian animal after care all the sticker.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Sorry, I just needed the confirmation.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
And it looks really old like, so you can't make
that out, so it looks like it's been buried for
a while, and so I could kind of make out
that this is me doing my fucking best loo thing. Ever,
by the way, sure I could kind of make out
the name of the person. And so we called the
place that with the animal they called the place on
the sticker, and they're like, we're so old school, we
just have like files. It's probably from a long time ago.

(03:23):
So we triedly asked our neighbors, like do you know
this person's name and they don't, and I just want
to return it to them because like if I came out, like,
let's say I had buried one of my beloved pets
in my yard and it was a fucking dug up,
so they might not live there anymore, But I think
I should give them give it a new burial, right.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
You could do that, that'd be really nice. Or you
could take it in a mill of the night and
throw it over someone else's fence.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Have a fucking problem.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm there's options, I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I mean, I have a video of the coyotes playing
in that area that night, so like that didn't already happen.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Thank god, you're positive someone just like that over pretty sure.
That's really disturbing, isn't that? And quite sorry?

Speaker 2 (04:05):
But it's also like sweet in a weird way.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Well, I'm glad your coyote story is sweet, because mine
they almost killed blossom.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Just recently, I feel like the coyotes are really under
the gun.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I saw one today on the street.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
I mean there everybody got driven down because of the fires.
Like it is not good in terms of poor you know,
actual wild animals. Yeah, but it's also not good in
terms of little white terriers just trying to act like
she they're in charge of their domain. My dug Blossom
at five in the morning needed to go out because
she could hear the coyotes, and then she got bit.

(04:41):
And it was crazy because this is the same Blossom
who survived to kill her beasting. She has been up
against it.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
This dog, she means, she's an indoor dog.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Kind of thing, I think, so, I think she's becoming convinced.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
It could have been like if she were a little smaller,
they would have carried her off entirely. Fucking thank god.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Also, she makes this insane sound, which is what happened
when my cousin Stevie's dog Betty attacked her. She makes
a sound that scared everybody for like an hour.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Scream.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
It's a scream, and then she gets away, So she's
kind of I respect her absolutely.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Just start screaming. That's what we've talked about a lot
of times.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
A lot.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
You can apologize for screaming. You can't apologize for having
done nothing when you should have been screaming.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
That's right, you really you really landed on something there.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
So I'm going to Rebury it. I'll let you know
what happens. I'm gonna have like a little ceremony.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
In your own yard.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, that's nice, just to like, since we can't find
the person.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Yeah, give Frieda her final resting place.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Weel Frieda. Frida sounds like a like a Pomeranian name,
doesn't it?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah it does? Or shitsu. Yeah, Freda just running that house.
One of those dogs that runs.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
The house for sure all day for no reason.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Or she's like a real nice kind of like one
of those like a chowd German shepherd mix the fluffy yes,
where she's kind of like fluffy and god, this dog going,
who is this dog?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Maybe she's a Persian cat. We don't fucking know.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
That's what a free does. A bowl and stretcher, and
we're like, oh, it's to.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Be like, get that out of my fucking house now.
So it's just been sitting I walk by it every night.
I've just been sitting on my lawn table.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Just like problem to be solved.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, I gotta do something about that.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Oh, I saw so hard to lose a pet.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I know.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Sorry that was no. I mean it's interesting at least
it's interesting. It's not me saying, yes, I'm still watching
Seinfeld season eight. It just gets better and better every episode.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Are you watching the show called Apple Cider Vinegar. It's
on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Perfect. I can switch right over from Seinfeld. It's like
they'll be right next to each other.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Oh my god, it's a true story.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
It's a dramatization about a goal who just completely one
of those light about having cancer on the internet and
made a career out of like her saving her own
life through nutrition. Yeah, and it was all.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
A scam, but it is a true story.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
It's a true story. Wow, I have to watch that.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
Oh my god. Those ones are my favorite because I
do feel like it's like Scamanda. Yeah, which if listener,
if you haven't listened to that podcast, please stop this
one immediately and run over there. Because these stories of
people like that are so I could all day long.
I want to hear them. They're just like, how did
you You started off? You had a real threat to
your life. It traumatized you in some way, right, but

(07:27):
then also something else happened to you.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
And then the way they describe it, and this show
does that, it's like you kind of feel empathy. This
girl's clearly, like, of course it does monstrous things, but
you understand her initial motivations. Yeah, and that's just what
you need. But then after that it's just a whole fun.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I can't I can't imagine what it feels like to
have love just outpoured towards you when you say I
have this thing, right, they show that it's like yeah, bananas, yeah, ooh,
apple cider, vinegar yeah, check, I'm on that.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Should we get to something upbeat and funny, because yes,
we got some letters, right emails. One would call.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Them a handwritten missus longhand long form missives about how
I covered the tenor Reef airport disaster last week in
episode four sixty seven, and we had all kinds of
questions for pilots and airplane people, and.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
So I guess we got some answers.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
I'm so frightened.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, I'll go first. Okay, this is called I promised
pilots are friend there then you think, hello, all. I
was listening to the latest episode when Georgia covered the
tenor Reef airport disaster. It's a devastating case. We all
study extensively as pilots, and like George said, the air
traffic phraseology has now been standardized to avoid such an
accident from ever happening. It's great, that's good to know. Yes,
But Karen, it says, I promise we're far more patient

(08:42):
than we've seen. Couch said, what did you say.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I don't know. It's something like I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I said, I think I think pilots would have no
patience for me. Yeah, and like, oh, that's right, that's right, right.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, Like they're just so organized and calm and buy
the book.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
And they have next steps. They don't want to talk
to you about your my little stories, right, I promise
for former patients than we've seen. We're not all engineers.
And as much as we take our jobs very seriously
and communication is kept to the essential during critical stages
of flight, I've yet to meet a fellow pilot who
wouldn't talk your ear off given the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh, neat, It's nice, Okay.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Flying as an absolute privilege, and most of us are
so humbled by the fact that we get to experience it,
let alone do it for a living.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Oh and then it says only six percent of pilots
worldwide are women. I have had the honor of being
taught by some incredibly badass female pilots, and I am
proud to have joined the ranking. We always need more
women in aviation and STEM in general. A little shout
out to the young women listening. You can do anything,
show those boys how it's done.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
For everything you do. You kept me company during my
many hours commuting to and from airports for training. Welcome,
a welcome reprie when I need to switch off learning
mode SSDGM and.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
And thank you. Why does that? And was like, Okay,
I'll get into this conversation with you dull young women.
And while I'm here, let me teach you a thing
about well, which is very meaningful because that's a person
and who is a constant handler of shit?

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
May we all be up there with the greatest. All right, Well,
I have one too. I don't know what it says.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Alejandre gave us both one to read to each other exactly,
no instructions.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
So here's mine. The subject line is, can confirm pilots
have no patience for you, Karen? Then it says lighthearted
two minute read love it Karen. On the last episode
for sixty seven, you said I think a pilot would
have no patience for my personality. Oh there it is.
There's a quote perfect, and I can confirm you're probably
right because I'm a Karen and my dad, who was

(10:41):
a pilot for thirty years, didn't put up with my bullshitty.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
It sounds like someone else's firefighter or father named Jim.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
There's a lot of these dads out there, and I'm
glad we're finally talking about it.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
They're no bullshit dads.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
My dad, Captain Craig, flew from major domestic airlines before
and after nine to eleven and is a real hard
as in the best way. You'll be happy to know,
Georgia that pilots in general are very meticulous people and
not willing to be rushed through procedure for anyone. Got it.
For example, my dad does a walk around inspection of
the car before he gets in all caps every single time.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Oh my god, My dad does the opt when he's
leaving the car. He checks every door handle. Oh yeah,
three or four times.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Just lock it down. Oh, Dad's okay, even when Lee
just leaving the grocery store after running a quick errand
and has very rigid rules about safety and then in
quotes like talking this car is not moving until everyone
has their CBO. As you can imagine little teenage Karen,
Me and Captain Craig didn't always get along so well.
But now that I'm an adult and he isn't teaching

(11:44):
me standard operating procedures for making my bed and debriefing
me about Friday night parties, we have a great relation.
Oh my god, debriefing me about Friday night parties. He
also makes me feel much calmer about flying. I frequently
text him when I see scary plain stuff in the news,
and he is the first to reassure me that flying
is very safe and gives me the inside scoop on

(12:04):
any positive changes happening in airline safety. Stay sexy and
don't be us around pilots.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Jana, Jana, Can we get your dad's phone number so
we can also text him when things happen?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Could we start a segment with Captain Craig called Airmail
and he just like maybe every week, sends us an
email that says, hey, I listened to the last episode,
this is what I would have done different.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Totally and like, but here's also I shouldn't worry and
like everything's going to be okay, Yes, I want reassurance too.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Not just about air flight or anything, just general Captain
Craig stuff in the world.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Debrief me and inform me about and let's have some
Friday night party and calm me down and we'll be
there too.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
And let's of course that has invited as always and
was here first. That was amazing.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
That was great. I love it. You guys always write
in when you have thoughts and feelings. We might not
read them, but.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
We appreciate it. Thanks allahndro. That was so good.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
All right.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Should we talked about the network? Yes, definitely. We have
a podcast network. Did you know It's called Exactly Right Media?
And here's what's going going on this week.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
On Bananas, Kurt and Scottie are joined by comedians Sashier
Zamata to talk about the world's most bizarre and hilarious
news stories. She is so freaking funny.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
She's so cool. Over on this podcast, will kill You,
Erin and Aaron go on a deadly deep dive into
the death cap mushroom. O God, they're good. Yeah, they're good.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Speaking of toxic, Bridger welcomes actor and comedian Vinnie Thomas
on I said no gifts.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I had to say that was just purely an Allison
joke that I could not stop laughing at. Vinnie Thomas
is one of the best comedians around. Of course we
love Bridger. Why to get Nobody's toxic?

Speaker 2 (13:33):
Nobody but everybody, And despite Bridge's explicit instructions, Vinnie arrives
with an unsolicited gift. See what happens next by listening
to I said, no gifts.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
That's right. When you're done with that, you can go
over to rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's us Hi.
This week, we traveled back to September eighth, twenty sixteen,
recapping episode thirty three called What About Mimi, where we
covered the Jane Mixer case alongside the co ed killer,
and we also covered the unbelievable survival story of Jennifer Maury.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
So in honor of the rewind episodes, we've stalked one
of our most iconic T shirts. It's one of our earliest,
our good friend Kat Solan's T shirt design. Here's the thing,
Fuck everyone.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
I meant to wear the sweatshirt because I stole one
because it is my favorite design, but I couldn't find it.
I just think it's in the wall.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
No, it's available as a mug or Crew Next sweatshirt.
It's a great way to tell all all the parents
at pick up what you really think. And it's inspired
by episode number twenty eight of Rewind and Karen's telling
of the Terry Joe Duperos survival story. Incredible, So get
that March my favorite murder dot com.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's such a good little picture of a little blonde
girl sitting on a raft by herself.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Unbelievable. It's a total fan fave, just the greatest.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
All right, you go first this week. All right, I'll go.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
First this week. Okay, this is just one of those
awful stories that we hear all the time. It's one
of those unfair stories about someone doing a bad thing
and then instead of taking responsibility for it, doubling down
and trying to evade that problem via murder, like Selena's
story that we told on Rewind recently.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, you know, this is the eternal human problem. Everybody
does it. It's not to the person. It is a
human condition of the shame you feel when you do
a bad thing or a wrong thing. So you're like,
I can't feel this shame anymore. So what I'm going
to do right, give somebody else this shame, right, and
that'll work. The problem is it never done.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
It doesn't. So today's story is about a murder that
rock New York City right in the middle of the
summer of twenty twenty, remember that, when everyone is still
reeling from the early days of COVID. So I don't
remember this because I think that there was just so
much going on in the news. The main sources for
the story are reporting in the New York Times and
a really beautiful tribute to the victim written by his sister,

(15:52):
Ruby Sleigh. The rest of the sources can be found
in the show notes. So it's July fourteenth, twenty twenty,
and we're in the Lower East Side of New York City, which,
as you know these days, is cool. It's a desirable
high end neighborhood. A thirty year old woman is riding
the elevator up to her cousin's apartment. Her family had
asked her to check on him since they hadn't been
able to get in touch with him. Always Bet. The

(16:14):
cousin that she's going to check on is named Fahim
so Let, and he's thirty three years old. Fahim is
an entrepreneur and has found really great success with several
startups you know the fun The most recent is a
motorcycle delivery app that's widely used in Nigeria. He was
born in nineteen eighty six in Saudi Arabia, where his

(16:35):
father was a professor at the time. The family is
originally from Bangladesh. Then they moved to America when Fahim
was four years old, and then it's the classic struggling
financially for years while Fahim's father finished his PhD so
he could make a life for his children, that classic
immigrant story. Wanted better education, better opportunities for their children,

(16:59):
and the links struggles they go to achieve that. So.
Fahim is a born engineer and is always tinkering with
things from an early age. He's one of those kids.
My brother was totally like, you get a clock and
you take it apart immediately to see how it works,
and then you put it back together. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
I was not one of those to me either.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
He learns to code and begins launching little tech startups
in his teens.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
The first one is called Monkey Do and it's quote jokes, pranks,
fake poop, fart spray and more for teenagers wait for sale. Yeah,
but it's yeah, it's a prank store online.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, that's okay. Can I just say that the magic shop,
It was a magic and pet shop in my hometown. Yeah,
the pet stop and they magic and pets, magic and pets,
and they sold all that stuff in there. So there
was like birds and nothing. I think the guy had
a monkey for a little while. Adrian what Adrian and
my sister and I talk about the monkey a lot
because it was Yeah. But then basically during their late

(18:01):
seventies early eighties, they need to kind of expand just
like they're not making all their money on selling like
a lizard once a week, and so they start getting
remember those rubber masks that like you get to get
a Reagan mask and they're very lifelike, Like they just
started all these rubber pranks and joke franks and the
gum And myn extraor neighbor was a real trickster twelve
year old, and so he was always like, would you

(18:23):
like a piece of gum? You've never seen the brand
a right, And so that is like I just love
that because that is that age and that's like, what's
necessary right now? A stink bond? Right?

Speaker 2 (18:33):
What do I want to create and make for other people?
This is exactly it, garlic gum right, and this is
and it does. It's a really good indication of his
personality because this is exactly what he's like. He's bright
and funny, he's carefree, he's curious, smart, very smart obviously.
And the website performs really well and he actually monetizes
it with ads. And this is when he's thirteen. So

(18:55):
this is like the late nineties when shit like this,
we didn't no one knew to do stuff like this,
and a thirteen year old is coding himself. Like I
think his parents were freaked out when he got his
first check and they're like, what is this from?

Speaker 1 (19:07):
And then he like showed them and they're like, all right,
my business, my business. Welcome at thirteen.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah. So amazingly, Fahim makes enough money through these kinds
of ventures to put himself through college. Wow, So that
American dream his parents had paid off, it's already happening.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah in the house.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah Yeah. After college, he finds more success in the
prank space with a playful website for generating prank calls,
so clearly he's fuck.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
He likes that fun, but also like find tapping into
an initiative. It's like, what are me and all my
friends truly passionate about tricking people?

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Prank calls tricky? Like it is that thing of like
find a need and fill it. Yep, totally, So he
did that, so good. Fahim takes the money he earns
from this venture. He wants to now steer aways, getting
a little older, from the prank world into more serious ventures.
So then he completely pivots and does a one't eighty.
Now he's like, look, I want to give other people
the opportunity that my parents gave me by moving to

(19:59):
the U and getting an education. I want to give
that to other people. He just completely pivots from this
prank world and becoming this like altruistic person. He wants
to give other people the opportunity that his parents gave him.
And so he finds enormous success with a ride app
based in Bangladesh and then with an app called go Kana,
which is a Nigerian motorcycle delivery app and it gives

(20:22):
people in Nigerian all these people so many opportunities that
they didn't have his company. Later stated quote he believed
young Nigerians are extremely bright and talented individuals who would
flourish if just given the right opportunity. So the Sleigh
family is just obviously bursting with pride over Fahim. And
he's known to be particularly kind and generous. So he's

(20:44):
thirty three years old and he's close to his family.
He had recently gotten his new grown up apartment in
the Lower East Side. He's also recently gotten a dog,
which is a Pompsky named Layla, who he adores. Just
looks like a little husky. It's so and these photos
of him with the dogs, like smiling, He's just this
like beautiful, bright smile, open face, kind eyes. He's just

(21:09):
this like clearly beautiful person. Still despite being an adult,
Fahim's father checks in with him every day to make
sure he's remembering to eat, because like people like my
brother who are obsessed with computers and tinkering, they'll just
work through the night and we'll forget to eat. Like
my mom used to have to take my brother's keyboard
computer keyboard with her to work in the morning so
my brother would go to school. This is like elementary school.

(21:30):
So Fahim's apartment is in a small luxury condo building
with only seven units. There's no doorman, and there's only
one apartment on each floor, and it's the kind where
the elevator opens to the apartment instead of like a hallway,
and you need a key to select your particular floor
in the elevator. So when Fahim's cousin gets off the
elevator in his apartment and takes a few steps in,

(21:52):
she makes just the absolute most horrific discovery.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
You can imagine. This story is so awful, and I
definitely remember reading about it during quarantine and having it
be that kind of very surreal and very kind of
isolated experience of like taking it all in and just awful.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
And the headlines that they use were particularly horrible. And
that's one of the things his sister says in this
tribute she she wrote for him on online. You can
read it online that these like she's flying across country
to like identify her brother, and these like grizzly headlines
or all she sees on her computer.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
It was a New York Post, of course.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, yeah, Because the cousin finds Fahim's torso on his
living room floor as she walks in. She flees the apartment,
calls the police, and when they arrive, the police find
Fahim's head and limbs in a garbage bag. They also
find an electric sauce still plugged into the wall, and
they find cleaning supplies, and it looks like the scene

(22:50):
has already been significantly cleaned up, but it looks like
someone's in the middle of cleaning up the scene. So
Fahim's family is very close knit and they're absolutely obviously
destroyed by this news. And this is the summer of
twenty twenty, so because of COVID restrictions, Ruby has to
identify Fahim's body from a picture, and she just didn't
want her parents to have to do it, so she agrees,

(23:12):
and she writes, quote, I began to caress his face
on the computer screen with my index finger as tears
poured down my cheeks. I just wanted to tell him,
I'm so sorry, Fahim, I'm so sorry for him, my
poor sweet brother, my heart. The medical examiner finds that
Fahim's cause of death was from multiple stab wounds to
the neck and torso. Again, Fahim's building has no doorman,

(23:34):
but there are security cameras in all the common areas,
so when the police look back at this footage, they
see Fahim returning to the building on July twelfth after
going out for a run, and then a man in
a black suit wearing a black and ninety five mask
in black gloves, who appears to be already inside the
building when Fahim walks in, follows him into the elevator,

(23:54):
and when the elevator doors open into Fahim's apartment, the
man in the suit uses a taser to sub do
him and then drags him into the apartment. At first,
at least one police source tells the press he believes
us to be a hired hit man. They believe that
this person was still in the process of trying to
get Fihimme's body out of the apartment the next day
when his cousin came over to check on him, but

(24:16):
the impression that this was the work of a professional
quickly changes when police realize that shortly after the murder,
the killer had used one of theame's credit cards to
take an uber to a nearby home depot to buy
extra cleaning supplies. Surveillance video from the elevator shows the
man coming back to the apartment with this equipment on
July fourteenth, the day I Faim's cousin would later come by.

(24:39):
The footage shows him vacuuming inside the elevator. And I
didn't know this, but he's vacuuming inside the elevator because
there's a chip that's deployed when a taser goes off
that identifies the taser. Oh, like a little chip.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Did you know that?

Speaker 2 (24:53):
No? I did not on that wild Yeah, I mean
that makes sense. It's like it's a weapon.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Someone needs to be able to go and find like
where it was, where it happened. It's a weapon.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
It's pretty brilliant. Then after the vacuuming, he disappears into
Fahim's apartment to begin cleaning the scene and dismembering the body.
And then while he's doing this, it turns out that
the battery in the saw runs out, and that's why
the murderer left to get a new to go to
home Deepot to get a new battery. And I, by
the grace of God, somehow, this is the point that

(25:26):
Fahim's cousin comes into the apartment to check on him,
because what would have happened if she had come in
any sooner and if that battery hadn't died, you know,
I mean it's like, it's a horrible situation, but you know,
to look at one positive thing that that didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, thank god.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, So then police learn something that quickly makes the
whole investigation fall into place. They figure out that Fahim's
former assistant, a twenty five year old named Tyrese Haspill,
had resigned the previous year. He did so right before
Fahim realized that Tyrese had stolen thirty five thousand dollars

(26:03):
from him by setting up a bogus company and embezzling
funds through payments to that fake company. Teresa had originally
been hired to keep Fahim's personal finances in order, so
he had access to all this information, and after learning
about the fafth, Fahim confronted him and then actually declined
to press charges and said he wanted to work out

(26:23):
a repayment plan with Tyrese. That was the kind of
person he was. He was very generous and he was
willing to work with him. Yeah, so he wouldn't get
in trouble. Well, he probably knew him as a friend. Yeah,
I mean that's a very close relationship totally. Well, Fahim
didn't realize or what he was possibly about to find
out in July of twenty twenty, was that Tyrese had

(26:45):
actually continued stealing from him in a separate scheme, even
after he didn't work for him any longer. In fact,
Tyrese repaid Fahim with Fahim's own stolen money from the
second scheme, this one involved fake PAYPA charges. Tyrese had
actually stolen an additional four hundred thousand from Fahim.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
So in twenty twenty, Tyrese had been becoming afraid that
Fahim was about to discover that additional theft, which was
obviously much larger and probably was going to get him
in legal trouble, and had been plotting for months to
kill him to prevent getting caught. They find that he
had made two other attempts in the recent past to
kill Fahim. Whoa, yeah, but he like he didn't go

(27:30):
through with them, not that like he would have noticed.
Once the police uncovered these two schemes, they realized Tyrese
is the man from the surveillance videos, and he's arrested
on July seventeenth to just a couple, they went after
that quick. Just a couple days later, he's arrested at
an Airbnb in Soho, which is about ten blocks from
Fahima's apartment, And according to The New York DA, Tyrese

(27:51):
had started working on the plot that he went through
with about a month in advance. In June of twenty twenty.
He bought contractor bags, a swifter mop, and the battery
operated saw. He also contacted a real estate broker asking
to tour a vacant apartment across the street from Fahim's
and somehow he was able to make a copy of
the key to that apartment and installed a Nest camera

(28:13):
so he could track Fahim's movements from across the street
in the apartment.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
That seems really advanced, I know, in terms of this
kind of planning. It's clearly not a crime of passion,
not somebody like you snapped because someone was so awful
to you.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
It's just very methodical, but also not a professional killer.
So it's also very more methodical than you'd think it
would be.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
So then on July thirteenth, Tyrese followed another resident into
Fahim's building at eight thirty am and hid in the
package room waiting for Fahim to leave and then return
from his run. So, after the murder, he took an
uber to Jersey City, getting rid of some of the
evidence in trash cans there, and he returned the next
day to finish cleaning up the apartment and to dispose
of Fahim's body. And that's when he ran out of

(28:58):
the battery for the saw. So he when he came
back from getting the battery, he saw the police outside
the apartment and fled and then he went And then
he went through that night with lavish plans he had
made for his girlfriend's birthday party that he was throwing. Wow,
like just pivoted and went through a party. Yeah, she
didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Sorry, doesn't it just just thinking about it now because
that happened so often where it's like the crime scene's
there and then the killer comes back for whatever reason. Yeah,
doesn't feel like, well, the police are still there having
discovered a crime scene that they should be posting people
like a block and two blocks away to be tracking
every single person and it comes and immediately goes away.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Or like or just to have a stakeout and not
immediately like.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
The nest camera up in the old but Airbnb.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Right, No, that's a really good point.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
It just or should be in the future because it
seems like this is a thing that happened definitely. Yeah, yeah,
that's a really good point.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
So Teresa's charged with first degree murder, grand larceny, and burglary,
among other charges. He's found guilty on all charges in
June twenty twenty four and in September of twenty twenty four.
This past September, he sentenced to at least forty years
in prison. Fahim's family are, of course, still absolutely devastated
by the loss of their son and brother. Fahim's sister,

(30:13):
in her tribute, writes that quote, sometimes it still doesn't
feel real that Fahim is gone, and sometimes it feels
too precisely like the cruel, heinous and unbearable reality that
it is, letting me see nothing but darkness and feel
nothing but piercing pain in every quadrant of my heart
end quote. And that is a story of the senseless,

(30:34):
greed fueled murder of Fahim salais a self made, brilliant,
kind and forgiving young man whose family will never be
the same God.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I know. Also, I only knew about that story up
until point, because you're right. When it broke, it was
like this awful thing, and then it was like and
then here's another bigger, scarier awful thing.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
And yeah, i's such a quick turnaround too. It's like
they got him immediately, and then it was just waiting
for the trial.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, good job, thank you. That was really good. Thank you. Well,
I'm going to tell a horrible story as well. Okay,
this is how we do it, but mine is definitely
very very different than yours. And also you might remember
it's from two thousand and five, and it was a

(31:27):
bit of a cultural moment, at least in northern California
where I was. You couldn't get away from this story
for a little while. And recently our writer Alison Agosti
reminded me of it, and she sent me this article
that basically we'll talk about at the end that started
this where I was like, oh, I have to cover this.

(31:48):
I completely forgot about it. So it's March twenty second,
two thousand and five, And I'm just going to set
the scene for you, please. President George W. Bush is
waging more in Afghanistan and Iraq. Martha Stewart has just
completed her prison sentence for insider trading, and the Hilary
Smanke boxing movie A Million Dollar Baby wins Best Picture
at the Academy Award. Yeah, just put yourself back there.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
What a year. I had the tiniest bangs you've ever seen. Oh,
I mean just little tiny bangs.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Oh. I think I was out of Baby Bang's face
only because I had stopped drinking. Meanwhile, over in San Jose, California,
something very gruesome is unfolding. It's just before seven thirty
PM and a woman is seated in the dining room
at a Wendy's ready to enjoy some of their fresh
hot chili for dinner. She picks up her spoon, dips

(32:37):
it into the bowl, and then takes what will be
the most consequential bite of food in her entire life.
As she begins to chew her mouthful of chili, she
describes feeling something quote crunchy in her mouth. It just
feels off, so she spits the item out to inspect it.
That's so called crunchy item in her chili appears to
be a human finger.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Oh, yes, tip or nail tip, hold the entire tip.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Basically, the finger is what we will be calling it
from now on in this story. Holy sh not just
one of those. Oh I caught the top of my
finger off with a knife and it's bleeding. But it's
like finger, it's the top of a finger.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
No, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
These are the very first moments in what will soon
become a national media sensation and a costly PR crisis
for one of America's biggest fast food chains. This is
the story of the Wendy's Severed Finger event of two
thousand and five.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
God, it's not ringing a bell yet? Really?

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Okay? No, amazing? Okay. So the sources Marin used to
research the story today are a Snopes article by writer
David Michelson and several articles from the Associated Press and
from the San Francisco Chronicle, most of which were published
in two thousand and five, And the rest of our
sources are listed in our show notes. If you want
to go see and read. Okay, So Wendy's San Jose,

(34:04):
two thousand and five, seven thirty PM. A woman just
spits out a fingertip and is quite understandably freaking out.
She starts telling the other diners to stop eating their
food as she shows off the small finger. It's about
an inch long. It does have a fingernail on one end.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
I love her type. That's not just like, oh my god.
She just starts fucking screaming about eating stopt eating good
for her.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
And then she rushes up to the restaurant's employees to
tell them what's happened. And as she does, as the
San Jose Mercury News later reports, at least three people
in the dining room become physically ill. Sure, so you're
sitting there eating and then someone's like, holy shit, there's
a finger in my chili.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
And like, that's totally the first time most of them
had ever seen a severed finger before. Absolutely, you gotta hope.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
You're yeah, for sure, Yeah, you're I didn't think about
that at all. You're connecting all these things and then
you're just like, and I have just taken a bite
of whatever.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Totally, this is horrific, and I love it.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Okay, good, But some of the Wendy's employees seem to
be in disbelief. One patron will later tell the Mercury
News quote, they told us it was a vegetable. The
people from Wendy's were poking at it with a spoon.
Oh end quote. But I mean, what are they supposed
to do? This is wild? This is like, how are
you even saying that this is real? There's no way
this is real.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I guess it could be harmony if you look really blurry,
you don't have your glasses on.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Hominy doesn't have a fingernail on it. Very true, as
far as I know, I shouldn't just say that kind
of stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
I really should fact check.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
I'm going to someday. Okay, So it's very understandable why
these employees are questioning what's going on. They are the
ones that made the chili. They made it at two
pm in the restaurant, or they assembled it. I've made
is probably generous, but I'm not exactly sure. But they
make it there as usual every day. So no one
on the staff was involved in any accidents, no one

(35:53):
lost a fingertip. It doesn't make sense that something that
shocking is found in the chili from their restaurant, but
not everyone was in denial. Someone in that restaurant called
the police, and the police will arrive alongside officials from
the Santa Clara County Health Department, led by a health
officer named doctor Marty Fensterscheib.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Doctor fencher Shibe. At seven thirty on a weeknight, he's
at home, Ring Ring Ring, real boring, getting ready for.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Bad crosswood puzzle.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Yeah, like his life isn't that exciting? No? Then the
fucking call of a lifetime comes in.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Shup and he puts on his half glasses. Yes, and
he says, I've got a feeling that they need my service.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
His wife puts his cape on, his children kiss him goodbye.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Doctor Marty Fenstersheib is about to roll, so at his command,
the fingertip is quickly wrapped up in damp cause and
sent off to the Medical Examiner's office, who is now
tasked with determining whether or not it is indeed a
human body part. Next, doctor fenster Scheib shuts down the
restaurant until he and his officers can figure out what

(36:57):
in the living hell is going on. Haired chili that's
on site, which had been made at two o'clock that afternoon,
as I said, is hauled off for inspection. As are
all the ingredients that the restaurant has on hand to
prepare any new batches of chili? Right, so they just
take all the chili fixings.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Would you know are a plastic I was gonna say that,
like they don't chop in fucking dice.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
That shit's just going from a bag to a heating thing, right.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I can't say for sure. I really wish I could
call my friend Erica Sobol who I went to high
school with. She worked at Wendy's four years and she
listens to this podcast. Erica, text me, please if you
know anything about the preparation for the Wendy's chili. I
should have thought of that.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
You know that people that people listening right now are
going to write in and tell us about their fast
food My God, send us your fast food experiences. God,
the grossest ones.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
But especially Wendy's employees. We want to hear from you
in any way. You would like to share with us
my favorite murder at email. But I have to say this,
well you'll see I won't give anything away right now.
But so, it doesn't take long for doctor Fenstersheib and
his team to figure out that finger was in fact
not severed in the restaurant. None of the employees show

(38:04):
any signs of trauma or bleeding, and they don't find
any other health or safety issues in that kitchen. Instead,
the situation seems contained to that one diner's cup of
chili and presumably the larger batch that that cup came from.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Her. She's the luckiest woman in the world or the
least unlucky.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yes, exactly. So a few hours later, this Wendy's is
given an okay to reopen, right, no, I mean give
it a night, close for the night. And then later
that night the local news reports on this story, but
it's not given hardly any airtime at all, and they
end up by saying the report is unconfirmed, so it's

(38:42):
basically just word is that. But the next day the
medical examiner confirms what everyone was dreading. The object in
the chili is not a vegetable or a prop of
any kind. It is a human fingertip. And when that
information is sent to the health officer, doctor Fenstershot, he
is the unenviable task of informing the public because when

(39:06):
the finger was discovered, they made the chili at two.
The finger was discovered at seven thirty. That means countless
customers could have purchased and eaten from the same batch
of chili.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
No one's ever getting chili again.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean it was truly, that is what happened for
a while in northern California. Yeah, because it was just
the imprint of it on everyone's mind. That's so. It
is the thing of like it doesn't It's like once
the story hits it kind of doesn't matter whether or
not it's true. Absolutely, kind of like gossip. Yeah, so

(39:39):
Marine writes to me in parentheses note to Karen, I
haven't been able to find a source that specifically states
how many customers purchased the chili that day. It's always
in vague terms, and I'm like, no more than.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Four, absolutely not more like there's who, nobody, no one.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
I bet you. When the chili first came out in
like the eighties, people were like, what a great substance.
But you could put it on a potato, potato potato,
you can have it with a salad. I think by
two thousand and five people are just like chili.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I don't know, Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Could be wrong again, Wendy Heads let me know. So
doctor Fenstersheib makes a public statement where he reassures anyone
who ate the chili in that timeframe from this specific
Wendy's that they are probably fine, since the fingertip was
presumably cooked at high enough temperatures to kill bacteria and viruses.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
And I just picture him being sea and popping it
in his mouth to be like, it's totally fine.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Choo, choo, choo, it's Aaron Brockovich with Then you drink
the water. Then you if it's so fine, you drink
the water.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
You have some chili from yesterday, Marty.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
So he advises anyone who may have eaten that chili
to check in with their doctor just in case. Imagine
having to run that press conference. Oh, just the waves
of horrified barfing.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Oh my god, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Just like stand by me at the old pie eating contest. Okay,
now that the public health official is confirming the initial reports,
of course, then local and national news picks up on
the story. The San Francisco Chronicle actually sends a reporter
to the Wendy's in San Jose to interview diners, and
one woman who happens to be eating a bowl of
chili when she's approached by the reporter, tells the reporter

(41:17):
she'd heard rumors about the finger, but she assumed it
was just an urban legend on news that night, a
four day old urban legend. That's denial.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
She liked her chili, loves her bucket. Maybe we just
didn't know about Wendy's chili. This one's so good that
you'll eat it even.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
After when you're like, probably not a finger though, right.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
And they took care of it already, Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
That's a new batch.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Why didn't they pull all the chili off their fucking
the market.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
I think they were like, there's no way this happened. Okay,
so you know, okay. So another diner hadn't heard the
news at all until she got to Wendy's and overheard
employees whispering about it behind the counter.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Guys, love it, shut up, she tells the reporter.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Quote, I actually did check my food with my spoon again,
was that food? Chili?

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Spoke in her murder with his bish.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Chili's being eaten. There's even a customer who walks in,
fully aware of this situation and jokingly asks the staff, quote,
where's the finger at? Ooh? And then I just wrote
in all caps, I love him. I know it's a guy,
and I love him. But in the first wave of
reporting the story, one key detail is always missing, the
name of the woman who discovered the finger in her chili.

(42:28):
She explicitly asks not to be identified or described even
and reporters honor that request. But of course her identity
can't stay secret for long as this story gets wider
and wider, and reporters find out that this woman's name
is Anna Ayala, and she's a thirty nine year old
woman from Las Vegas who was in San Jose visiting relatives.

(42:51):
While doctor Fenstership has been trying to give the public
peace of mind about any physical effects of consuming the
contaminated chili, the psychological fallout, of course, is uncontainable, and
he knows this firsthand because he's the one that has
to call Anna to give her the bad news. He's
been checking in on her since the night before, which

(43:11):
is when it happened, but now he has that confirmation
from the medical examiner, so we asked to tell her
that in fact, it was a human body part in
her chili.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
She didn't want anyone to know like her name, because
it's the same thing when you win the lottery, like
your family's just going to come after you for body
parts the way they come after you for money, or.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
They're just like constantly like, oh, yeahs a finger. So
he later says, quote, I had to confirm it to
her that she had indeed put a piece of human
finger in her mouth. She kind of lost it. Yeah,
end quote.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Totally understanding, absoluolutely.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
So within a week of her gruesome experience, Anna has
completely dropped the pretense of anonymity, and now she's making
the media rounds. She gives an exclusive interview to Good
Morning America where she says that she's considering filing a lawsuit,
and she talks about the emotional distress of the whole
Org deal. She tells them, quote the thought of, you know,
just knowing that there was a human remain in my mouth,

(44:05):
it's disgusting. It's tearing me apart inside end quote. So first,
of course, there's this outpouring of sympathy for her, and
of course a widespread disgust toward Wendy's and their chili.
And then over the next couple of weeks, Anna's story
dominates national headlines. It fuels endless late night jokes, which

(44:27):
was the culture back then so.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
That's not really like a thing anymore. Yeah, it was
so tasteless.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
It was so well, I mean, it was just expected
at the time. It was just like, yes, this is
going to happen, and it's immediately going to be this
the joke fuel, and you know, everything's up for ridicule.
It also though, tanks Wendy's sails, especially in Northern California.
I was there. This is the truth. You didn't need it, no,

(44:53):
no one. Everyone just was weirded out. But Wendy's is
not sitting idly by just watching all this happen. They
as a corporation, of course, are looking for answers. This
is big business and they're not just going to sit
there and be like, we're so sorry. They make all
their San Jose staffers take a polygraph test to show
that they played no part in placing the finger in

(45:14):
the chili Wow, and then they hire their own private
investigator to look into the matter for themselves.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
Damn Wendy.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yes. Most importantly, the company posts a fifty thousand dollar reward,
which they'll later bump up to one hundred thousand dollars
for any information about how a finger could have wound
up in their chili.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Oh so they think it's fucking sabotage. Hell yes, and
they're ready to pay. They're like, what's the whole story
because this seems weird. We have a lot of checks
and balances. Yeah, that's one. That's one angle.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Nobody, not one employee at our restaurant knows what the
fuck's going right. It was not them. We stand behind
them now that we've polygraphed them. And just fyi, in
two thousand and five, one hundred thousand dollars would have
been one hundred and sixty thousand in today's money.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
You need that. This is so big Lebowski with the toe, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
It is so. Anyone with information is asked to call
Wendy's anonymous tip line, which their private investigator is actively
screening themselves.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
That was like the best gig he's ever got ever.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
To be on the Wendy's severed finger tip line. My god,
sevid finger tip line. Okay. So, now, in tandem with
Wendy's efforts, there's also an official police investigation into where
this finger could have come from. And there are six
detectives working on this case.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Can we get those on a murder case?

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Could we have some sexual assault paid attention to.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Be great, if we could get those kits tested.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Okay, But again, and I think we all know this
now in twenty twenty five, literally twenty years later, that
when a corporation has an issue, that that is what's
focused on. This is a money making venture. And this
is not thousands of dollars, this is hundreds of this
is millions of them. Probably, So the thing is, no
one can figure it out. The employees at the Santos

(47:05):
A Wendy's location have all been ruled out. A deeper
dive into the restaurant's supply chain also turns up nothing.
There are seven different suppliers involved in producing Wendy's chili.
Not a single one has reported any recent workplace injuries.
That said, there are some clues. Early on, the medical
examiner notes that the fingertip is not decomposed, meaning that

(47:27):
it was likely severed recently. He also points out that
it looks quote torn off, possibly by manufacturing machinery, rather
than cleanly cut, suggesting that it could have come from
a workplace accident and then with its neatly groomed, still
intact fingernail. The medical examiner also suspects this finger belongs

(47:48):
to a woman. This information gets the police exactly nowhere.
They fingerprinted a fingertip, and then they run so sorry.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Oh my god, I almost split that water outprint at
the fingertip.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Who had to hold it and touch it? And were
they yelling the entire time? No, Karen, the medical examiner is.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
A professional professional.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
They deal with this constantly. It's not that big of
a deal to them. They run those fingertip fingerprints through
national databases. No hits clean, okay, clean record fingertip. Wendy's meanwhile,
is now on the defensive. They bring their own forensic
expert to consult with the medical examiner, specifically on whether

(48:31):
the fingertip had actually been cooked with the chili or
added afterwards. Their analysis concludes that the finger had in
fact been added later. Okay, doctor fenstersheib loops back into
the tel reporters quote. The possibilities are still all out
there on where and when the fingertip came into the chili.

(48:52):
So they're going to like the health department, the everybody's
going back to the press over over like updates and
like here's what means to happen. Now, people need to
this story needs to be controlled in some way. With
each new bit of information that comes to light, Wendy's
feels more reaffirmed that they have done nothing wrong and
that they're being set up. The corporation's senior vice president

(49:14):
of communications at the time, Denny Lynch, tells The New
York Times, quote, someone puts something in a bowl of chili,
but it was not us. We don't know what happened,
but we know Wendy's is innocent. End quote. So Anna Ayala, meanwhile,
is not backing down. Her attorney immediately shoots back, saying, quote,

(49:35):
obviously something slipped through, to put it lightly, and this
is a strict liability type of case. It is a
product liability case, and a consumer doesn't expect to find
body parts in their food. End quote. So while all
of that's playing out in the media, behind the scenes,
the Wendy's tip line is active, and in a matter
of weeks they reportedly received nearly three hundred tips, and

(49:58):
some are so bizarre they end up making the news
Oh my God. For example, one comes from a fifty
nine year old Nevada woman who'd recently lost a finger
to a leopard at her exotic animal compound outside of
Las Vegas, which is again where Anna lives. The woman
says she last saw her finger on ice at the hospital,
but has no idea where it ended up beyond that.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
Someone's selling finger tips to No, it doesn't track, doesn't
make a lot of sense I'm getting for this lead
certainly adds more color to an already weird case, but
the police quickly shut it down because the woman's lost
finger and the fingertip found by Anna look entirely different.
How do you fucking tell two fingerprints?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Come on, I want me to tell you. They put
eight fingertips in a lineup. They're all wearing turtleneck.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Which one was in your mouth?

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Do any of these look familiar? Long fingernail, little bitten fingernail.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Little quirky, smart, one's got dimples.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Hangnail, smile? Okay. Then a new tip is called into
the Wendy's hot Line, Ring, Ring, Wendy's Fingertip hot Line.
But it's not about the finger, It's about Anna herself.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Nah.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
This caller claims that back in two thousand and two,
Anna scammed her by selling her an eleven thousand dollars
trailer that she Anna in fact did not own. Oh no,
of course this has nothing to do with the Wendy's incident.
But if it's true, it could maybe shed some light
on the character of the person that is at the
center of all of this. It's not a great look

(51:25):
for Anna. So around the same time, it comes to
light that Anna had been involved in an unusually large
number of lawsuits.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Oh no, you can't. We can't do that now, No,
people are onto you.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
The thing about lawsuits is it goes into the permanent
record and the public record.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Yeah, and like most people have zero to one.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Yes, you hope, you'd hope. Okay, So the AP reports
quote investigators have found thirteen civil actions involving Aila or
her children. At times, it says she has settled cases
for cash payouts before the lawlawsuits have gone to court.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah, that's the scam right there.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
So now here we are. Also, some of these lawsuits
are very shady. In nineteen ninety nine, for example, a
car dealership sued Anna and her then boyfriend, accusing them
of writing a bad check to buy a car. The
same year, Anna sued that dealership claiming a wheel fell
off of the vehicle that they had sold to her.
Her case was eventually tossed out, and she reportedly never

(52:23):
repaid the debt, so she got a car, tried to
accuse them of like fell he almost killed us with
this thing. They're like, you didn't pay for it. Yeah,
it all gets settled out of court. Now people are
wondering a fan a plan the whole incident with the
hopes of reaching a big settlement with Wendy's.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Now the standing up, screaming thing makes a little more sense.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
It kind of Then you're like replaying it in your mind.
The movie starts again. You see the scene in a
different light. Suddenly it's raining outside. Okay. The police investigation
and media coverage begin to shift in that direction, and
all eyes are now squarely on Anna Honey. On April sixth,
only about two weeks after Anna discovers the fingertip quote unquote,

(53:05):
police get a warrant to search her home. When reporters
catch wind of this, they swarm Anna's property, hoping to
get a statement, and she calls out to those reporters
from her front door, saying, quote, lies, lies, lies, that's
all I am hearing. They should look at Wendy's. What
are they hiding? Why are we being victimized again and again.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Okay, drama queen.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
I would like to I wish we could hold up
performances side by side and see who's more convincing, because
I feel like when people are cornered like this and
then they're like, no, we're just going to double down
and got gold. Yeah, it's some of the worst acting
you've always ever seen.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Why do people think that they can get away with
shit like this though, Like they just think they're smarter
than everyone, right, yes, yeah, but you're not. It's like,
actually kind of dumb.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
You think you're smarter than everybody, but also you think
you're a really good actor. You think you're a believable
actor and a good.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Liar, which is just like no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
And yet just eight days later on April fourteenth, so
she's like, why being victimized? Everything's a lie. Then, on
the April fourteenth, her lawyer tells the Associated Press that
Anna is no longer pursuing legal action against Wendy's, citing
quote great emotional distress because of the investigation and all
the media.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
You know what, I'm gonna drop it, you know, I
just I don't even care forget it. I don't even
like want you're chili.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
You're just being mean to me. So I guess I
will give up this lawsuit where you put a severed
finger in my chili.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
I don't need a lifetime supply of chili. Like, just
just just fine, just get.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
It, storm out of the kitchen. You started this fight, lady.
About a week later, on April twenty first, both Anna
and her husband Jamie are arrested during a raid on
their home. There's a colorful detail in the Chronicle story
that covers this where they say that Anna is reportedly
watching Meet the Fokkers on video when the police arrive.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Okay, just to really think that that's like someone's pr
was working overtime or they're like what movie were they
put that in.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Paint the whole picture. Maren included that, and she was
like a useless yet colorful detail is how she phrased it.
So Anna's hit with two charges felony grand theft connected
to the allegations that she sold that trailer that wasn't ours.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
That thing's coming back in the way.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Oh, they'll pull that right back in just to get
as much stuff against her as they can. But the
other one, and more importantly is the attempted grand theft
for allegedly spreading the fingerhoax at the expense of Wendy's business.
Her husband, Jamie is actually arrested the same night, but
totally separate. He is not involved in that as far
as they know. He's arrested for failing to pay child
support to his former partner. So Anna is held on

(55:37):
five hundred thousand dollars bail and the plans are in
motion to extradite her from Nevada to California for the
Wendy's fraud alone, She's facing up to six years in
prison and two point five million dollars in restitution, which
would be worth more than four million dollars today. Oh So,
at this point, the case against Anna is mostly circumstantial.

(56:00):
Keeters need more concrete evidence to secure this conviction, and
the biggest missing piece is the owner of the fingertips.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Where are her children?

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Oh? Oh I didn't even think, oh I.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Was sinking the fingertip belong to one of them.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Oh well, figuring out where it came from could be
the key to proving Anna's involvement. On May fourth, another
tip comes into the Wendy's hotline. The caller claims to
know exactly where the finger came from. He names a
man who recently lost part of his finger in a
workplace accident in Nevada, who just so happens to work
with Anna's husband. Oh shit, Maren's chosen to keep the

(56:36):
fingers owner anonymous since he was never charged with a crime,
So I support her in that choice. So San Jose
police head to Nevada to question this man, and sure enough,
he's missing a finger, which he explains he lost in
an on the job accident not long ago. Then he
drops a bombshell. He admits that he sold his severed
finger to Anna's husband for one hundred dollars to settle

(56:59):
a debt.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
You didn't question why someone wants your fucking severed finger.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Look, he wants that dead off the books.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
I'd just be like, sure, I would fucking sell my
severed finger. What aren't you?

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Absolutely yeah? I mean, no questions asked, I guess NQA.
So but not only that, Jamie allegedly told them that
he and Anna planned to plant it in food, and
according to legal filings, Jamie even promised him a cut
of the eventual settlement two hundred fifty thousand dollars as
long as he kept quiet.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
How many night lights have they had that night? Though,
dude like he didn't. I'm on the sky side, Like.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
I am too. It's the finger. Guy was kind of like, well,
this horrible thing happened to me. I don't have the
top of my finger. They said they can't put it back. Yeah.
I owe this guy big time. He says. He if
I just give him the finger, and then maybe a
little more later on, I don't know. And then as
it unfolds, he's like, oh Jesus Christ, I have to
call these people. Thank God, there's a tip line one

(57:55):
eight hundred Frosty. Oh my God, call now. Okay. So
now authorities soon confirm with DNA that the finger belongs
to this man. So now the case against Anna Ayala
and her husband Jamie is solid. In September two thousand
and five, about six months after the whole saga began,
the couple pleads guilty to conspiracy to file a false

(58:16):
claim and attempted grand theft. Jamie sentenced to twelve years
while Anna gets nine, although later the nine is reduced
to four on a legal technicality. As a part of
their sentencing, the couple is ordered to pay Wendy's more
than twenty million dollars in damages come on, which would
be over thirty million dollars today, but the company agrees

(58:36):
to let them off the hook for this money as
long as they never attempt to profit off of their hoax.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Damn they should have put them in their commercials. That
would have been fucking hilarious.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
It's so wouldn't have as a person who was there,
as a person who was there having to kind of
like grapple with this weird Like, I know it's not Bob,
but also is this? Is this how we are this
vulnerable to just kind of anything.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Anyone wants to tell us anything?

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Okay. Even though Wendy's is ultimately vindicated, Anna and Jamie's
scam cost them dearly. The New York Times reports quote
the claims and the mass of news media attention it
brought caused individual franchises in northern California to lose twenty
to fifty percent of their sales. According to the Affidavid
Wendy's estimated it has been losing a million dollars a

(59:30):
day since the incident was made public on March twenty second,
So in a desperate attempt to win customers back, Wendy's
launches a free Frosty weekend promotion, but the financial hit
goes beyond corporate losses. Business at the San Jose Wendy's
drops so drastically that several employees lose their jobs or

(59:51):
have their hours cut. Over time, though Wendy's more or
less moves on, so do Anna and Jamie, who eventually
serve their sentences. We don't know much about their lives
posts the Wendy's hoax, especially for Jamie, who returns completely
to a private life never hear from him again. But
in twenty thirteen, Anna's back in the headlines that June,

(01:00:14):
her twenty six year old son accidentally shoots himself in
the ankle with a gun, which he is not allowed
to possess because he is a convicted felon. But instead
of just telling the truth, he and Anna file a
false police report claiming he was shot by an unknown gunman.
An officer working the case later tells ABC News quote,
they gave pretty specific information to the point we actually

(01:00:36):
thought we had a suspect. We interviewed this person, we
conducted various forensic testing as far as gunshot residue goes,
so we treated it like the real deal.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
End quote.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Eventually, under police questioning, Anna's son admits that they made
the whole story up. They are both arrested and ultimately
convicted on charges related to filing the false report. So
then again. For years, things are quiet until July tie,
when The New York Times publishes an article with the
innocuous title quote, Harris narrows gap against Trump. Times Siena

(01:01:09):
poll finds. It's a standard piece on the latest twenty
four presidential polling until people find buried within it a
quote from a fifty eight year old San Jose woman
that catches their attention. She tells the Times quote, I'm
a Democrat, but I've changed my mind after everything that's
happened with Joe Biden's administration. I mean, the border situation

(01:01:32):
is out of control. End quote. That woman is Anna Ayala.
It doesn't take long for people to put two and
two together. A senior editor at The Atlantic Screen grabs
the Times article and tweets quote the latest NYT poll
right up quotes the woman who was convicted of planting
a severed finger in her Wendy's chili Jesus, And of
course that goes viral, and The New York Times, now

(01:01:56):
fully in damaged control mode, issues a retraction saying quote
The Times removed comments from one voter in an earlier
version of this article after learning that the person had
been convicted in an extortion scheme in which she made
fraudulent claims. Quote. So with that, some twenty years since
the first grabbing headlines alongside that quote crunchy fingertip, this

(01:02:19):
bizarre story of Anna Ayala comes to rest for now. Anyway,
that tweet and then the accompanying article is what Allison
sent me when she was like, hey, in just in case,
just you know, keeping up with stuff. Did you know
that this was going on? And that's when I sent
it to Maren and I was like, oh my god,
we have to tell the story. Yeah, And that is

(01:02:42):
the story of the Wendy's severed finger hoax of two
thousand and five.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
I still have so many questions. I know, was it
actually ever in her mouth? Did she have to go through?
Was there a crunch?

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
I bet no, There's no way you would do that
if you napkin, Yes, Fike s bidding already in Napkin,
unless she went all the way with it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Well you kind of got it. You know, when you
tell a lie, it's best to get as close to
the truth as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
How close are you willing to get?

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
No? Not that fucking close. Wait did anyone get the
reward money? That's what I want to know too.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Oh, that's right, like so many questions. Yeah, I wonder, Well,
but I think the person whose finger it was, if
he called the tip line.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
He should get the money.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
No, should he? He was part of it was he
was Think of the diners. Think of what the diners
who heard her screaming and began projectile in that Wendy's
dining room. Think of what they would want.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Okay, they should get the money. Let's get them the money.
I mean, Jilli, we could yeah, lifetime, Jilli, Yeah, fix it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
That's how you reverse it. It's all so upsetting.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Oh man, that was one for the ages that reminds
me of one that like, if you're going on a
road trip with someone who doesn't listen to my favorit,
play that one, play this one for them?

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Yes, you know for sure, just like just do it.
I mean I feel like there was like when we
do that and just go through. It's like not just hometowns,
but just like do you remember weird stuff from your childhood?
It's like, that's how like thinking of those stories where
I was like, I remember when this happened, and it
was we would make jokes as we would drive by
a Wendy's. We were constantly at like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Yeah, please, I don't think I ever stopped going to Wendy's.
Sash It's fine, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
There's no fingers.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Well, that's the show. Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Thank you guys for listening on your road trip. We
appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Now that I'm thinking about it. This should I have
done a warning at the beginning of this story?

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
What about chili? No, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Do you hate chili? Don't?

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
It's called my favorite murder. So like, if you can't
handle a finger chili story, then.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Get out of our kitchen where we're chopping off fingertips left, right,
and center. We love you, stay sexy, I don't get murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Good Bye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Our managing producers Hannah Kyle Creighton.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Our editor is Aristotle Oscevedo.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
This episode was mixed by Leona Scualace.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Our researchers are Mareon mcclashan, and Ali Elkin.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder.
Bye Bye,