481 - $8 Million in Today's Money

On today’s episode, Karen covers Phoenix’s Serial Shooter and Georgia tells the story of the Flannan Isles Lighthouse Mystery.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Lay, hello, and welcome to my Favorite Murder.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's Georgia Hartstark.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
That's Karen Kilgareth.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
And this is that true crime podcast that your sister
told you about ten.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Years ago that you finally listened to, or haven't if.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
You haven't, How are you hearing this right now?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Do we sound funny? Is this funny?

Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's a zen Cone?

Speaker 3 (00:36):
She said we were funny. She said we were supposed
to make you laugh, but too bad? How's going good?
How are you good? I just binged Ione Sky's new
memoir say everything? So I'm in that kind of this
eighties mentality, like eighties tell all everything mentality.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
And how's that mentality affecting your life?

Speaker 3 (00:58):
I mean, very vulnerable, I think, And I want to
sleep with John Cusack, but that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I think that's the way to go though. Right when
I first saw Better Off Dead when I was like
fourteen years old, it was like the humor where I
was like, oh, there are other people that think weird
shit is funny. And then him in the middle of
all that, because he had I'd first seen him as
a nerd in sixteen Candles and I think this was
right after that. Yeah, because he's a little older, little taller,

(01:26):
and I was just like, this guy is it he is?
I think many many girls in the eighties were just
it was like he was cute, but he wasn't rob
low intimidating, right, and he was super funny and super
real and he seemed a little sad. It was like
all the things you love.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, it's like accessible, however it's hard to look at.
I mean she tells all you would love it. I
think it's a really good, vulnerable, like honest book. And
she's really weird too, so I feel like it speaks
to me and I want to be a cool girl.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Way, yeah, don't we all? I mean, wasn't she married
to talk about cool girl? Wasn't she married to? Was
it Diamond Mike D from the Beastie Boys or was
it Adam?

Speaker 3 (02:08):
She was married to Mike d?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, I mean like her and Kathleen Hannah get cooler
than that? How much cooler do you want to be? God?

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah? What about you?

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Anything?

Speaker 3 (02:19):
You're binging?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, it was just my fifty fifth birthday, which is
this Sammy Hagar birthday?

Speaker 3 (02:26):
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I can't drive fifty five? It's the Sammy Hagar hit
speaking of the eighties, if you want to talk about
the eighties, Happy birthday, thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
It was nice.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
I went to Petaluma. It was on Mother's Day, so
I have a holiday birthday. It happens. That's hard and
it's not great when your mom's dead. So there's there's
a little you know, you're getting flowers and your life
is this? Is this positive? Is this negative? But yeah,
I've said this to you before. The older you get,
the less your birthday you do definitely stop doing that.

(02:55):
Like it's my birthday week and we have to go
to dinner on Tuesday and this on frid whatever. It
truly becomes this thing of like I just don't want
to I just don't want to.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Talk about it, but everyone else wants to. So you
have to do it for them. That's truth, isn't You
don't have to do anything for them?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
I guess, I mean, ultimately no, but you have to
be able to receive, so you can't. I can't say
I should say, like, just ignore it, because people want
to let you know that you matter to them and
that they love you and they're glad that you lived
yet another year.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Right, And it's kind of the only like acceptable time
during the year for them to say that. You can't
just randomly bust that out. You shouldn't, you know, on
a Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Oh my god, I'm so glad you survived. What nothing? Nothing.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
I have a really funny gift for you, but visual,
and you have to touch it. And we're not in
the studio right now. So next week we're in the studio.
You're gonna get it delated. Hilarious birthday gift that I
bought months ago when I saw it on Instagram and
I was like, I have been holding it and waiting
for your birthday. Oh nice, but now it has a
lot to live up to, so better fucking be funny.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
You know what. Also, that just reminded me that we
took last week off for a much needed break, but
we didn't do our briefcase presentations, so now we really
have to do it.

Speaker 3 (04:12):
I'm glad because I can't fucking find one. Can you?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Did you really look?

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Oh my god, I've looked so much. And I went
through my own clause and I was like, this might work?
Is this you know? I have looked and it's harder
than I thought it would be.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
It is very obscure.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
It is it is.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Is there such thing as a business thrift store?

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Oooh?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Filled with ties and suits and briefcases that's sexist, and
dresses and working dresses with shoulder pads the whole thing,
and unisex jumpsuits. You know. Ooh, let's not be so
gendered at work all the time. Come on, guys, stop guys,
stop it. Do you want to talk about There is
some sad news in the true crime journalism world.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
That's right. We must say an rip to the incredible
British crime reporter who we have sourced many times for
this podcast. Yeah, Duncan Campbell. He died at eighty after
a very admirable career in true crime.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
A huge name. He worked for The Guardian. He was
a huge name in British journalism. Married to the actress
Julie Christie, which is, you know, Jesus, a huge accomplishment
all in itself. If you haven't seen Shampoo, it's one
of the greatest movies of all time.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, we've used him many times in you know, he
was a source in the story I told about the
Great Train robbery and in the Hatton Garden heist story.
You know rip.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, true crime journalists are the reason we're all here
in true crime podcasting. It's a direct line, truly, thank
you to all the true crime journalists that make these
conversations possible.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yep, all right, should we do some highlights of our
podcast network called Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Let's do it so over on The Knife this week,
Hannah and Pasha share Meg Richter's story. Meg was labeled
a troubled teen and sent to Mountain Park Baptist Boarding Academy,
a Christian reform school but was actually more like a
juvenile detention center. And they talk all about the corporal
punishment and the cult like atmosphere it is. Those are

(06:08):
some of my favorite stories of like what were they
getting away with back then? It's so crazy, I.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Mean it's wild. And the Knife please follow them. They're
doing some incredible work. We're so proud to have them
newly on the network.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
And they're doing really well. That show is becoming a
true hit and people are really responding to not just
how good it is, like in terms of the topic
that everyone's interested in, but how good Hannah and Pat
are as hosts and their conversations are incredible.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yes, thank you guys so much for supporting that and
then over on Buried Bones, Kate Winkler, Dawson and Paul
Hol's head to eighteen fifty five, Ohio, where a farmer
died under suspicious circumstances. The investigation starts out standard but
suspects motives a few twists, but what unfold is anything
but ordinary, so make sure you check that out.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
And then over on do you Need a Ride? Chris
and Karen Welcome the hilarious Martha Kelly. Oh my god,
we have a two partner with Martha Kelly. You know
Martha from the television show Baskets. She played the character Martha.
She's also on Euphoria. She's been in a bunch of movies.
Martha is a stand up comic who is basically one
of those comics comics that everyone loves. She's one of

(07:15):
the funniest people. So we ended up doing a two
parter because we just were like, let's just keep going
in absolutely our work isn't done here. But she also
if you haven't seen her on TikTok, she's hilarious and
you should definitely check it out if you are on TikTok.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
And over on I said no gifts. Bridger remains gracious
as ever. When Mary Elizabeth Ellis our friend from It's
Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Annan on the Inside shows
up with an unapproved gift, they talk swamp tours, la rabbits,
and the dangers of chicken caesar salad. I love Mary Elizabeth,
She's the best.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Speaking of gifts, we've got some merch news. The MFM
Crow's pullover hoodie is here, just in time for summer.
I think Allison is being sarcastically true at that just
in time for summer. Wear it to a freezing cold
movie theater or just stored away for winter if you
want to. But they are some pretty grit. I love

(08:08):
this design. I love the way they made this sweatshirt.
So go take a look at it and see if
you don't love it too.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
And also we've restocked the I Shall Never Submit tease
inspired by the Pearl Heart story from episode three seventy.
You guys love that piece of merch, so check that out.
It's available now in both ladies and unisex. And you
can see all of our merch at exactly rightstore dot com. Yay,

(08:33):
you're first, right.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I am first, and I'm here with a classic true
crime story, right, I was not familiar with it when
I first heard about it, and then I think it
was Maren probably found it and pitched it. But then
I was like, as I read her research, I was like, oh,
that's why I thought I heard of this before. And
you will see what I'm talking about. So, if you

(08:54):
want to watch a TikTok about this case, there is
a creator named zev Universe, So it's at XEVI capital
U Universe and they talk all about this story. If
you want to watch a TikTok version, and just for
anybody that is sensitive to it, there are very brief
mentions of violence against animals in this episode. There are

(09:15):
very long mentions of violence against humans. So this story
starts into two thousand and six. And while this is
not a story entirely about Mike Tyson, it does begin
at his boxing gym. So this was when Mike was
based in the Phoenix area of Arizona, long past his
championship years. He is an enormous amount of debt. Remember

(09:37):
when Mike Tyson used to live with fully grown live tigers. Yeah,
he lived in Las Vegas. He was married to Robin Gibbons. Absolutely,
I mean like he really went for it. So he's
in debt, but he's still one of the most famous
boxers of all time. So to help pay off his debt,
he's gearing up for a world tour. His team's focused
on promoting the matches and boosting ticket sales, and that

(09:59):
includes and doing interviews here and there with sports reporters.
So today, at his gym, Mike's set to meet with
a local boxing journalist for a quick chat and for
some photos. Tyson will later describe this man as a small,
polite white guy. Their time together goes smoothly, nothing happens,
and before the man leaves, he asks to get a
photo with him and Mike together. Of course, Mike Tyson

(10:22):
agrees that's that the guy leaves. Mike Tyson never really
thinks much more of it, and then one morning a
few weeks later, Mike is again at his gym working
out when a swat team surrounds the place. Mike has
had run ins with the law, kind of infamously. He
also grew up in a horrible part of New York

(10:43):
City over in Brooklyn. You know, he's no stranger to
the police, so he's totally freaked out. A has no
idea what's going on, and immediately starts apologizing. He's confused,
but he's like, what did I do this time? Basically?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:00):
A sergeant steps forward shows Mike Tyson a photo, the
one with the boxing journalist from a few weeks earlier,
and the sergeant asks how he knows this man. Of course,
Mike can't remember anything going wrong during the interview or
why this would be an issue, but he apologizes anyway
and says, I quote, I must have said something to him.

(11:21):
I must have offended him. I'm sorry. I didn't mean
to do that. End quote.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
It's like basically, he's like, they're coming for me, right.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
I need to start immediately apologizing.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Ayah.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Trying to fix this so quickly.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
The officer makes it clear to Mike Tyson Mike Tyson's
not the one in trouble here. He explains the photo
was pulled from that man's website, which is what led
the swat team to Mike's Jim, and then the sergeant says, quote,
mister Tyson, he liked you, but he didn't like the
twenty eight people he shot or the eight he killed.
End quote. What alongside his accomplice the man in the

(11:58):
picture with Mike Tyson spent fourteen months terrorizing Phoenix, Arizona
with horrific and random acts of violence. This is the
story of Phoenix's serial shooter case.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Holy shit, right, I don't remember this yet. It's crazy
which sounds horrible. It's horrible in two thousand and six, Yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Basically a later version of the DC shooter which we
all were very aware of, and it was like on
the news all the time. It's like Phoenix's kind of
version of that.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Yeah, and everyone there knows the story perfectly, probably, but
somehow I'm sure it's less in our minds. Okay, wow,
tell me everything. Okay.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
So the sources used today are journalist Michael Keefer's reporting
for the Arizona Republic, Gary Grotto and Nick Martin's reporting
for the East Valley Tribune, and an interview Mike Tyson
gave during an appearance on Jimmy Kimmel Live, where Mike
Tyson tells the story himself, which is crazy shit. And
the rest of the sources are in our show notes.
So we're going to go back one year before the

(12:54):
swat team invasion of Mike Tyson's boxing gym to May seventeenth,
two thousand and five, a man named Tony Mendes he's
a construction worker in his late thirties, is on his
bicycle delivering candles to a family who just lost their
power at their house. Tony's been struggling with his sobriety,
but he's starting to turn things around, trying really hard

(13:16):
to turn things around. A big source of inspiration to
do this work are his four children, who he wants
to strengthen his relationships with. Tragically, on his way to
help the family, Tony is shot to death by an
unknown gunman with what investigators ultimately determine as a twenty
two caliber rifle fired from a moving vehicle. God a
week later, on May twenty fourth, two thousand and five,

(13:38):
another man named Reginald Remiard is randomly and fatally shot
with a twenty two caliber weapon while in a public
space in Phoenix. Reginald was a Vietnam War veteran in
his mid fifties who had struggled for years with schizophrenia.
He was sleeping at a bus stop when he was shot,
and he died of his injuries just a few days later.
And then almost exactly one month later, on GUA. Twenty ninth,

(14:01):
a twenty year old man named David Estrada is randomly
shot to death twenty Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Baby.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
David is remembered as a star high school athlete and
a beloved member of his family. He's camping under an
overpass in Toolus in Arizona, about twelve miles from Phoenix
on the night he's murdered. His body is found with
gunshot injuries to his chest consistent with a twenty two
caliber weapon. So then a few months pass from this murder,

(14:29):
and then on November eleventh, two thousand and five, a
man in his mid forties named Nathaniel Schaffner is killed
basically according to this exact same m O. We don't
know much about Nathaniel personally, aside from the fact that
he was unhoused at the time that he was murdered.
He had had a few run ins with the police
over the years. Nathaniel's body is found in an alley

(14:49):
way and downtown Phoenix, but unlike the three previous victims,
investigators determined that Nathaniel was killed with a small gauge shotgun.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Well, now you can immediately see why we didn't hear
as much about this as we did the DC sniper.
It's because it was funhoused less fortunate people, That's right,
and so it gets less coverage.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Right. It's people on the street who it's much easier
to rationalize or write off as if they want to
live on the streets or be on the street.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Or if they deserve bad things because they can't help
but live on the you know.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yes, yeah, all the moralizing that goes along with it. Yeah,
good point. So after Nathaniel's murder, weeks pass, the holidays
come and go, and then at the very end of December,
on the twenty ninth, around seven thirty pm, shots are
fired at a car parked outside of the ABC Bartending
School in Tempe, about ten miles away from Phoenix. No

(15:42):
one's injured in this shooting. It seems like just this
one car has been targeted, which is very weird. But
of course everyone at the bartending school is completely rattled,
and the shooter, believed to be firing from a car,
immediately disappears before anyone can get a good look. So
later that same night, several people and a few animals

(16:03):
are shot at random throughout the Phoenix metro area. Two
victims are unhoused and believed to be undocumented immigrants, again
another reason we didn't care about it. So we don't
know very much about their lives, but we do know
their names. They are forty four year old Jose Ortiz
and twenty eight year old Marco Correo. They're both killed

(16:23):
in separate locations, not far from each other, and these
shootings take place within minutes of each other, and this
leads investigators to believe the gunman was firing from a
moving car. Once again, the gun used in both attacks
appears to be a twenty two caliber rifle. So just
one block away from where Marco Correo is killed, another
man is shot as he's getting off a bus. His

(16:46):
name is Timmy Tordai and he's in his thirties. Timmy
survives this shooting and he manages to get help, but
by the time police are looped in, the shooter's already
gone and the hunt continues. So around one am the
same night, a twenty four year old Phoenix woman named
Clarissa Rawley is walking down the street alone. She sees

(17:09):
a four door silver car pass her, then pull an
abrupt u turn and come back in her direction as
the car gets closer. Clarissa watches as someone puts the
barrel of a shotgun at the window and fires at her.
Holy shit, she instinctively shields her face with her hands,
and her hands take the brunt of the blast. Oh

(17:29):
my God, and thank god. A passer by sees Clarissa
like almost immediately after the attack and rushes her to
the hospital. So she survives.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
So it doesn't take police long to connect these December
twenty ninth shootings. So all of that happened in one night.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Jesus, and so they definitely connected them immediately.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, because they're so close to each other. The weapon
was the same every time, and every time it appeared
to be shooting from a moving car.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Right. Wow.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
But Clarissa's surviving and being able to give a description
of the gunman's vehicle now gives investigators a real lead.
So when they check surveillance footage near where Jose, Marco,
and Timmy had all been murdered, they see the same
silver Toyota Camri in that footage that matches her description. Wow,
it's a huge lead in this horrifying case. But then

(18:20):
the shooting stop. There are no reports of any shootings
that fit this mo in Phoenix for the next five months.
But then on May second, two thousand and six, so
the following year, around ten pm, a seventeen year old
named Kabili Tambudo is walking home after picking up a
few groceries for his mom at a Phoenix convenience store
when he's shot with a small gauge shotgun. Kabili's father

(18:44):
was shot and killed back in their native war torn
Sierra Leone, but miraculously, Kibili survives this attack and he
manages to get help from staffers at a nearby hotel. Wow,
so scary.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, that's just like you can't even fucking walk down
the street, like come on. Yeah, so frustrating.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
And then fifteen minutes after Cabili's attack, a twenty year
old woman named Claudia Gutierra's Cruz is walking home in
nearby Scottsdale, Arizona. Claudia just moved to the area a
few months before from her native Mexico and she's just
clocked out of work from a nearby restaurant, so you know,
it's that kind of thing. She just do a long shift

(19:23):
and she's walking home and she is shot with a
shotgun from a moving car. A good samaritan stops and
rushes her to the hospital, but she does die not
long after she gets there. Between May thirtieth and July
twenty second, two thousand and six, fifteen more people are
attacked at random in the Greater Phoenix area.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Most of them are shot with small gage shotgun from
a moving car. Fortunately all of them survive their injuries.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
How terrifying to like know that if you walk home
you might get shot, and maybe you don't have any
other option to walk home, you know, yes, because your
shift is late and you car.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Right, that's terrifying. Or like I think it was Timmy,
he was getting off the bus. Yeah, somebody was just
basically got a ride home and was probably like a
block away.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
It's horrifying.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, you want to be like I wouldn't leave the house,
but a lot of people don't have that option, so.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Right, right, exactly awful, Yeah, and especially unhoused people who
are like I'm just trying to survive out here.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
So the victims of these additional attacks include cyclists riding
their bikes, a man listening to music in his parked car,
people standing outside their houses, and apartments. A woman who
decided to walk home after getting into an argument with
her husband. That one is thank god she lived, because
oh my god, the tragedy, the guilt of the guilt,

(20:44):
and horror. A man who's walking down the street to
buy cigarettes, and then just random pedestrians just walking down
the sidewalk. So now it's July thirtieth, it's around eleven
fifteen at night, and a twenty two year old woman
named Robin blasnak As just left her parents' house in Mesa, Arizona,
that's also in the Phoenix metro area, and she's walking

(21:05):
over to her boyfriend's. This kills me because this is
the kind of thing where it's just like, here's just
a description of a regular person, Like you're leaving your place,
You're going to go over to your boyfriend's place.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Every day life.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Right, She's wearing pajamas and fuzzy slippers and talking to
her friend on the phone as she walks down the street.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
R Like, that's how normal and casual this is, Oh
my god. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
So after a neighbor hears a gunshot and goes and
looks outside, they find Robin lying on the side of
the road. And she does end up dying from her injuries.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
Honey.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Investigators believe that those injuries were caused by a small
gauge shotgun. Robin's brieve parents are now forced to endure
the grief of her death, having lost another daughter ten
years earlier in a car accident. It's horribly tragic for
the blas Necks and for all the victims' families and
their friends, but it just keeps happening. By this point,

(21:58):
it's been more than a year of and them shootings,
and the residents of Phoenix, of course, as we're saying,
are completely on edge. People don't want to leave their
houses for fear of being targeted. And by now the
gunman's being referred to as Phoenix's serial shooter. So a
police task force has already been set up there, putting
all their energy into identifying the suspect, and investigators and

(22:19):
forensics experts have collected and analyzed ballistics evidence, surveillance footage,
eyewitness testimony, and any other evidence they can find from
the crime scenes. So far, they've connected thirty five shootings
that include multiple fatalities to this so called serial shooter. Unfortunately,
it's an extremely busy time for investigators in Phoenix because

(22:42):
there's also an active serial rapist and murderer operating in
the area. It's the baseline killer.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
So not only are the citizens of Phoenix totally overwhelmed
by all of this violence and murder all around them,
but of course law enforcement would be too, because they're
not a gigantic city. Having to have multiple task force
for multiple serial killers at.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
One time, for violent criminals, that does seem a little overwhelming.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
It's a bit much. So. In July two thousand and six,
a man named Ron Horton leaves a message on a
secret witness tip line and he says that his friend,
a guy named Sam Diedeman, has been bragging about shooting
at random people and animals in public.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Ron says that Sam referred to it as quote r ving,
which he said stood for recreational violence. Oh my god,
Sam is thirty one years old. And you might remember
the secret witness tip line from my story about Shirley
Landreth on the Tipster Killer. Yeah, it's the same one
that they have set up there. Yeah, so again it's

(23:50):
a tip line that really works.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
But he's not secret so maybe.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
No, he's not a secret because he then went to court. Okay, yeah,
so he's now on record don't keep secrets. Yeah. So
this tip comes in around the same time Robin Blasnak
is murdered, so officers reach out to Ron Horton to
get more information from him. So Ron agrees to set
up a meeting with Sam Diedeman at a local bar

(24:13):
so that the police can actually lay some eyes on
him and take a look at him. And it's good
that they did, because Sam gets a ride to that
bar in a silver Toyota. Camery Fuckle's identified the driver
as Sam's thirty three year old friend and former roommate
Dale Hausner.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Dan, you know, they were losing their minds when that happened.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Oh god, that kind of stuff were like, especially for
stakeouts and stuff where you're sitting there for like fourteen
hours and then finally it starts happening.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Like, yeah, the exact thing you need and want. Oh
my god, what a relief.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Wake up, Wake up, don't spill your seven eleven coffee.
Neither Dale nor Sam has ever been on the investigator's radars.
Sam's a divorce father, He's an electrician by trade. He
has addiction issues. He spent stretches living on friends and
families couches. Dale meanwhile, is described as a doting father
of a young daughter. And Dale had his own horrible

(25:07):
tragedy in his life. Years earlier, he lost his wife
and his two sons in a terrible car accident where
he was the only survivor.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
What no, why did Oh my god? This is just
like confounding, because why put other families through the thing
that you know exactly how it feels? That's just so depraved?

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Or is that part of it? Right? Feel what I feel?
Why do I have to be alone in this pain?
Everybody else needs to feel what I feel?

Speaker 3 (25:35):
Sure? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Dale works as a janitor at the Phoenix Airport. He
dabbles in sports journalism and promotions, and he's a boxing
super fan.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
He actually even has a local public access show about boxing.
And it is Dale who lands the interview with Mike Tyson. Wow,
just weeks before he drops Sam off at that bar
in his silver camera.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Wow, so that already happened, right, Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
So on the surface, these men don't send up any
glaring rag flags to the investigators, but behind closed doors,
Sam and Dale like to get this is what they
do for fun. They get incredibly drunk, and then they
get high on meth and then they gamble, shoplift, vandalize
anything from cars to businesses, and commit acts of arson.

(26:19):
Turns out they're responsible for two unsolved arson cases a
different Arizona Walmart's on the same day, where six people
were sent to the hospital for smoke inhalation and Walmart
racked up five million dollars in damages, which is how
much in today's money. It's only two thousand and six
eight mil.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Eight.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
That's exactly right, horri gosh, shit, you've done it. It's
finally happened.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
And that is crazy. That's never happened before.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
It's never happened.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Dinging ding Is there a thing?

Speaker 2 (26:47):
There is ding ding dating ding? Look there it is.
So during these fires, the water damage is mostly from
the emergency sprinklers. And also it's Walmart. Eight million dollar
is literally like when you drop five dollars on the
street and you kind of bum out for two seconds.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
So these two men are basically just a horrible, rampaging,
drug fueled duo who do not give a shit about
anybody else.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
I want to say, like fucking math, but I didn't
do that shit on math. I like make painted watercolors
for hours with my friends.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Like, it's not math, Yes exactly, There's different ways to
go about things, but yes, what you do on drugs
is your responsibility, right, and you cannot just be like, oh,
point to the thing that a bunch of other people
are on but are not doing what right? That is right?
Don't be crazy.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
No.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Also, again, if there's any theme of this podcast, it's
please don't do math. We beg you truly. So back
at the stakeout bar, the police decide they're going to
discreetly follow Dale out of the parking lot and they
tail his camera to a local mall and when Dale
heads inside, they slap a GPS device on his car. Yes,

(27:59):
love it right. So when Dale eventually heads back to
the bar to pick Sam up, the police are now
able to track their movements. Amazing, great work, Great work
for a police force that basically is like, uh, there's
also normal crime. There's the baseline killer, there's these assholes,
there's just the standard shite.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
There's some people on meth all over the place.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
There's mething meth, there's mething around all over town.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
I'm not it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
We're not disowning, No, we are not. We're laughing at
other things.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
I'm just thinking about the sister who's listening to this
for the first time, and it's just like horrified that
we're cracking up about Matthew.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
You're like they thought drugs were funny. It's like they
kind of are in other.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Situations, can be they can't be funny.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Okay, So that night, the camera leaves the apartment complex
and they start to just drive aimlessly around town throughout
random Phoenix neighborhoods. They slowed down as they approach pedestrians
or cyclists, and sometimes they loop back around to pass
the same person again.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
But they didn't stop them. Hold on because they could
have shot them.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Hold on. As the camera circles the block, the undercover
officers then slow their car down and then yell out
the window to these oblivious pedestrians. Take cover, get the
fuck out of here, basically like go go.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Go, Holy shit, Okay, that's good, so they.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Did without blowing their own cover. They basically were telling
those people, Okay, there's somebody that's going.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
To shoot you. Thank you for telling, but I beg you.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
It was literally like the window whirled down, like, get
out of here, that's the shooter. And people ran because
this has been going on for so long. Sure, and
those were the people that were exposed.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Right, or like if you see someone slow down near
you in a car, in your pedestrian, you probably just
run anyways, because yeah, you know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, because of what's been going on. Sure, luckily no
one is attacked during this drive this night. Please follow
the men back to Dale's apartment and they hear a
bit of the two men's conversation alluding to their disappointment
quote because of the rain. It's unclear what they're talking about,
but the police assume that they're mad that they couldn't
find a good target because of the weather.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
So shortly after this, investigators Secura warrant to bug Sam's
phone and Dale's apartment, and not long after that, on
August third, two thousand and six, investigators are able to
record the two men talking and joking about some of
the shootings, and minutes after that, a SWAT team bursts
into their homes and arrests both men.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Oh man, that had it feel so good? I mean,
this is a movie like this has to be made
into a movie.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
It's like, yeah, perfect, yeah, okay, And it can't be
made into one of those movies where suddenly they're the
anti heroes. No, no, oh no, just putting that out there.
So Sam and Dale are interrogated by police separately. Dale
shuts down and says nothing but Sam's bills math. You're
only as strong as your weakest link. So, according to
Michael Keefer's reporting quote, he and Dale, he told police,

(30:53):
were engaged in what they called random recreational violence. There
were muggings, stabbings, palm trees ignited, stores set on fire,
tires slashed, and the shootings. Essentially, they were playing video
games in real time while smoking mess Yes, Christ, So
Sam gives context to several of the shootings. For example,

(31:14):
he claims they murdered Nathaniel Schaffner, for example, because he'd
thrown a can at them as they were about to
shoot a stray dog. So Nathaniel saves the stray's life
and is killed in turn.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Oh they I can't handle that one yet. I'm not processed.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
It's all right. Sam also implicates Dale's brother Jeff in
at least one unsolved random stabbing that they committed. He
also admits that after one drive by shooting, they'd circled
back to look at the victim's body and got caught
at the scene when police showed up, so they end
up giving false witness statements to the officers and are

(31:52):
never suspected of being involved.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Oh someone got reprimanded for that for sure, right Like
that's kind of.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Oh god, I mean, but also as those cops, I like,
you wouldn't be able to live that down. It would
be horrible. Luckily, the victim in that shooting is a
man named James Hodges, who was also a Vietnam veteran,
and he, although critically injured, does survive. Sam also tells
Dale had committed several shootings before the two had become friends,

(32:22):
which police do believe is true, and Dale is soon
considered to be the ringleader in these serial shootings. More
damning evidence is found at his apartment. There are several firearms,
including a small gage shotgun, and records showing that Dale
used to own multiple twenty two caliber rifles. They presume
he'd either recently destroyed them or gotten rid of them somehow.

(32:44):
They also find twenty two caliber shell casings in his camera,
as well as scrap books containing cutout newspaper articles about
the serial shooter scrap booking like that ugh chills. I mean,
it's just like a movie where it's like it really
is the profiling that they talk about, where it's like
they're in it for the glory and the fame. They're

(33:06):
in it for that part. It seems like hacky, but
it is real.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah, And like I could make a joke about how
like tedious scrap looking is and like I can't even
do it with my own happy life and these fucking
monsters are doing it.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Like I wanted to make a joke about Joanne Fabrics,
and like where those guys standing around in the aisles,
Like no one noticed these two guys on maths.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Right getting like measured of both rebin cuttings. I don't
know what you do there, but we're not going to
do that.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
We're not. We don't really do that anymore. As investigators
pour through Dale's things, including his computer and his website,
they also find that photo of him with Mike Tyson,
which eventually leads the police to Mike Tyson's gym.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Did those guys just want to meet Mike Tyson because
he has nothing to fucking do with it. Clearly he's
in one photo.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I mean, why did they have to go in with
the SWAT team.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Right, I'm not Yeah, I just wanted to meet Mike Tyson.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
For sure, and kind of maybe scare My Tyson, I.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Don't know, or get their own photos with him. I
don't know. It's questionable.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
So the state of Arizona ends up filing eighty eight
charges against Dale Hausner, which span murder and arson. Sam
Diedemann meanwhile continues cooperating with the authorities. He pleads guilty
to murder and conspiracy to commit murder, and in doing so,
ends up avoiding trial himself and the potential death penalty.

(34:25):
So Sam agrees to testify against Dale at his trial,
which begins in late two thousand and eight, and survivors
Timmy Tordai and Clarissa Rowley both give their testimony in
this trial, as does a man named John Cain, who
crossed paths with Dale at Tempees ABC Bartending School, where
Dale had taken courses a while back and where that

(34:47):
parked car was shot at back in late December of
two thousand.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
And five, So there was a weird connection there.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, and John Kain made that connection for everybody. He
testifies that he'd been accused of sexual harassment by a
woman affiliated with the school, and Dale had offered to
help him out with that situation. Jesus John asked Dale
what he meant by that, and Dale told him don't
worry about it, you'll know when it happens. So then

(35:14):
a few nights later, on December twenty ninth, this woman's
cart is shot at in the parking lot. Oh. John
testifies he confronted Dale the next day and asked him
what the fuck are you doing, and Dale simply replied
taking care of business.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Oh my god, so it was her car. Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Problem is John didn't report Dale to the police.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
So testimony like this, as well as the overwhelming amount
of evidence presented to the jury, undeniably points to Dale's guilt.
So in March of two thousand and nine, Dale Hausner
is convicted on eighty eighty of the counts against him,
including six counts of first degree murder. Wow, He's handed
six death sentences, and in June of twenty thirteen, while

(35:54):
on death row, he takes his own life. He was
forty years old.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Wow, how the fuck have I not ever ever heard
of this, I hope none of it.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Sam Diedeman meanwhile, is sentenced to life in prison with
no chance of parole, and he remains there to this day.
So with the convictions of Dale Hausner and Sam Diedeman
and the capture of the baseline killer, Mark Goodot the
same year, that all happened in one year, a brutal
chapter in Phoenix history finally ends for the victims and
their families. There finally is at least a little resolution,

(36:26):
but the trauma lingers, and this includes Kabili Tambudu, who
was just seventeen years old when he was shot walking
home from the convenience store. He has scars from the
attack on his arm and on his back, and several
of his fingers are permanently paralyzed, and Kabili remembers the
moment he found out his attackers had been caught. They
had like a breaking news cut into normal TV and

(36:49):
basically they announced that the serial shooters have been arrested.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
What relief right?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
And Kabili says his first reaction was, man, get those
bastard words. And then later he tells reporters quote, after
I was shot, I was scared of the world. I'd
walk down the street thinking, am I going to get shot?

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Right now?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Now I can take a breath of fresh air. And
that's the story of Phoenix's serial shooters who terrorize the
city over fourteen brutal months in two thousand and five.
In two thousand and.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Six, David Fincher get on that real, can you imagine?
At the same time, he's also like, it's that slash
the serial killer that's going on at the same time,
and there's overlap and.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Like what Portal to Hell opened up in the desert
outside Phoenix and crawled into the city in the fucking
spring of two thousand and five, where it's like, oh.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Yeah, holy shit, there was lead in the air. God,
oh my god, greatt that was I don't know, like
the whole unhoused. It's hard for people to empathize with that,
and I understand. So the thing I always think about
that I think is important. But my dad lived in
his car for per reads of my life when he

(38:01):
had to, And you just have to remember, like think
of Marty if you need to understand like where someone
is in their life that they're doing that and it's
not they're not a bum. They're a human being trying
to live their life the only way they can. And
you know, you just have to remember that, right and
like humanize.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
That, humanize it, and also remember that those people would
not be there if there were services in this country
that Ronald Reagan took away in the eighties, such needed services.
And every time I see people walking down the street
talking to themselves and looking ragged and skinny, I just

(38:42):
think to myself, it was my mom's whole career to
make sure that that guy got his meds three times
a day because.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
It was so how needed it was, it's.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
So needed, and that kind of maintenance where it's like,
it's a very difficult thing when you have mental illness
to take care of yourself correctly. You need support. You
need it all the time, and that support costs money.
That's social well being.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
That's a great point.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's what taxes are for a couple billionaires could kick
down instead of buying their thirtieth yacht, right, kick down
some fucking tax money these problems. We wouldn't have to
be moralizing. You wouldn't have to listen to your Republican
dad rant about unhoused people, because we should be better people,
and we should be taking care of our own. We

(39:27):
should see them as our own total and take care
of them literally.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, you know. And my dad is as mentally healthy
as I am, which is not saying a lot. But
he also is a college graduate and he still had
to resort to living in his car at times because.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Life can be not what you expect and really hard, right.
Who doesn't know that?

Speaker 3 (39:47):
I mean Jesus, I think all the time, like my
old apartment, if things were the way they were, I
would not have been able to afford it. I would
have been couch surfing, which is like.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Oh absolutely, I would be living with my dad eight
years ago. I think we have talked about that a lot.
It's like, it's easy to go underwater in this country. Yeah,
God forbid you fall down and break your leg.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Oh my god, you're one bill away from fucking destitution
for sure. Yeah, so let's just all remember that. Okay,
we're back because I have a very important corrections corner. Okay,
before this episode's even over, I went out to p
and Vince corrected me. I didn't know he was listening,

(40:27):
but okay, he's a fan, I know he is. He's
the best. Okay, here's I'm gonna phrase it like this,
ad Rocks down with the Ione.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
We said Mike D, Mike Diamond, Mike D because that's
just my favorite name of.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
All of rat sounded not right, and I think I hesitated,
but at It's like in one of the songs.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
I know, well, I did. I threw it out there?

Speaker 3 (40:48):
You did?

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I think I said Adam Youch, which is very nerdy
of me.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yes, and I didn't. But it's Adam Horowitz. Youch is
the other guy?

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Is it two Adams?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Vince?

Speaker 3 (41:00):
What's Youch's first name? Mike Mike D What Michael? Yeah,
Adam Horowitz? Forget it?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Wait, it's what Vince?

Speaker 3 (41:13):
What is it? Say their names again?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Uh? Huh.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Adam Yeaut is mc A, Adam Adrock is is ad Rock?
Is Adam Horowitz? Say the last one again? And Michael
Diamond is Mike D. Oh god, you can delete your
Instagram comment. Yeah, telling us how dumb we are about
BC boys. We love Beastie Boy. Vince is standing by.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
I've never said I love the BC Boys. Oh you know,
I do, well, I appreciate them and I got it.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Intergalactic is one of my favorite experiences to have.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Okay, but that first, I mean, yeah, that means you
don't like them. If that's your favorite out of the
BC boy catalog, that means you.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
But remember the bat Boys broke when I was like
a sophomore in high school. So it never wasn't fucking
playing and it was like you're on the baseball bus
the softball team and the baseball team had to take
the bus together, and then you're just like, we have
to listen to this for four hours yet like really
torturous and not for me. I was more of like,

(42:17):
can we listen to Suzanne Vega?

Speaker 3 (42:19):
Right right? Okay, that's fair, Yeah, all right, Well I'm
devastated we're not in studio right now because I have
a vintage sweater I was gonna wear that goes with
my story perfectly. It's got a shit on, it's too hot,
it's got a ship, it's got seagulls and an ocean view.
And here's my story. So today, we're on a desolate

(42:42):
Scottish island, Karen, We're doing a fucking three sixty by
the way, one eight.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
The island is deserted aside from a lonely lighthouse and
three lighthouse keepers until they vanished without a trace. You
know this one, you're nodding, Oh, yeah, you got ano
this one.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
I think I think I've seen the movie.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
I feel like your grandma must have told you this
story to. There's no wreckage, there's no struggle, there's no
signs of anything. Where How these three experienced lighthouse keepers
could have disappeared from a rocky outpost in the North Atlantic.
This is a favorite topic for paranormal investigators and conspiracy theorists.

(43:20):
This is the Flannin Isles lighthouse mystery, a tail shrouded
in fog, fear and unanswered questions. Thank you Ali for
that line. It's perfect, all right. Well, the main source
for this story is a nineteen ninety nine article from
a journal called fourteen A Studies called the Vanishing Lighthouseman
of Ailien Moore by Mike Dash, the Fourth Beastie Boy,

(43:43):
and the rest can be found in our show notes.
And this journal, Ali tells me is about anomalous events.
She says, it's approached in a practical way with a
lot of research, so that sounds really interesting. And also
this Fourth Beastie Boy, Mike Dash, was also one of
Maren's big sources on the Spring hil Jack story. So
right up your alley.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
So it's December of nineteen hundred and we're off the
northern coast of Scotland, where I'm going to be this summer,
on a chain of tiny islands called the Flannin Isles.
There's a much bigger chain of islands called the Hebrides
off the Scottish coast, and they're known for their obvious,
stunning beauty. They're popular with outdoorsy travelers. Not it, but

(44:26):
the Flannin Isles are the far to this west. They're
still considered part of the Outer Hebrides, but practically speaking,
they're more like big rocks in the middle of the ocean.
So island is in quotes, you know what I mean, Like,
you wouldn't go summer there.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, you would, unless you want to go repelling.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Sure. So the island More is the biggest island off
the Flannin Isles, and it's only of a quarter of
a mile across. That's what Ali put, And then I
was like, what does that mean to me? And Karen?
A quarter mile across?

Speaker 2 (44:53):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Because I can't guess, So I looked it up. It's
thirteen hundred and twenty feet or three football fields, oh okay,
or a five to ten minute walk.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
All right.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
So the sides of the islands are sheer cliffs dropping
off into the ocean, the tallest of which are on
the westernmost point, and these are one hundred and fifty
feet tall, So very like picture of the Princess Bride Cliffs,
the Cliffs of Insanity, the Cliffs of Insanity. The island
has kind of always given people bad vibes for many generations.

(45:28):
It's one of those, like you know, storytelling islands. People
have always described a strong sense of foreboding about the
whole place. It's home to a tiny stone medieval church
with crumbling mossy roofs. Spend a night there, ay dare,
And there's some more about the church that the pilgrims
would first crawl into the church out of superstition before

(45:50):
entering it. So it's got like creepy vibes.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I mean a lot of churches have creepy vibes anyway. Also,
it's like it's so funny because I was thinking about
that's basically driving around Ireland, that's all you see are
like the walls of churches from the thirteen hundreds that
no longer have roofs, and it is it's creepy. But
then it's like, but if you're in the right mindset,
maybe like have a couple of Guinness aboard, you're like, oh,
the history. But then if you're like on an island

(46:15):
and there's like crazy rocks and crags, You're like, this
is horrifying.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Right, Like no one wanted to be there, you know
what I mean, Like they had to make a.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Pilgrimage there probably, yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
It's not like they could go to the gift shop
afterwards or anything fun.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
So the island chain, which is sometimes called the Seven Hunters,
it's been steeped in legends about a phantom and of
course about fairies who live there. There's also stories about
a strange and mysterious group of people who once inhabited
the island with like then they say they had different
body types and customs than those on the mainland, So
just kind of lore.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
You know, body type, I know, it's like they're like.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Hippie, I don't know, Yeah, they would really broad shoulders,
and everybody talked about it. Exactly. We were just weird.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
They bent backwards, right, But.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
This is going back hundreds of years, of course, but
at the turn of the century, so the nineteen hundred
turn of the century, there's nobody living there, and aside
from the tiny crumbling church, there's nothing on the island.
That is until eighteen ninety nine when a brand new
lighthouse is built and incomes three lighthouse keepers. Seems like

(47:25):
a lot, right, Like I feel like you've become a
lighthouse keeper to be alone.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
I mean, I feel like that's how we've always been
introduced to lighthouses, is like there's just one guy up there,
and that's kind of the whole story. But I bet
it's a tough job.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
It's really tough. But I guess it makes sense that
if like, it's not like you are the lighthouse keeper
and then you go to your house, you're like staying
in the lighthouse. There has to be two people at
all times. At least that makes sense. I answered my
own question.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
You just had to sound it out a little bit good.
You just had to just sit with it first.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
I show my work, Okay. So here there we are.
On the night of December fifteenth, nineteen hundred, two ships
are sailing along the coast. One is called the fair Wind,
the other is called the ark Door, and this is
an area known for big storms and massive waves the
Scottish weather, especially since the islands are essentially the peaks

(48:19):
of an underwater mountain in the middle of the Atlantic,
so it's not smooth sailing. And the captain of the
ark Door says the weather has been a bit stormy lately,
but the weather tonight is not particularly noteworthy. As they
approach the alan More Island, they are expecting to see
the bright beam from the lighthouse. It has one hundred
and forty thousand candle power, which is a unit for

(48:41):
measuring brightness, you know, and it should be visible from
twenty four nautical miles away, which is about twenty seven
land miles away, which is fucking far. It should be
shining bright at them. Instead they're grated only with more darkness.
The sailors know something is wrong even more curiously, and
this is more according to legend, some sailors apparently report

(49:04):
seeing a rowboat near the island, although how they see
it is unclear, and they say that they see men
in it, which we can take that part for a
grain of salt. It seems that the fair Wind does
not actually report anything, so all we know for sure
is a report made from the actor's captain. So in
the stormy darkness, the actor actually hits a rock winds

(49:24):
up taking on water, which is the whole fucking point
of a lighthouse being there, is it wouldn't happen. Yeah,
So the captain has to beach the ship and it's
a whole thing to get it fixed. It takes forever,
and so it isn't until ten days after that that
the captain's finally able to make the official report about
what he saw that the lighthouse on Eiland Moore was
not lit. And this puts us at Christmas Day. So

(49:47):
then it isn't til Boxing Day, which is we all know,
the day after Christmas over there is it?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Yeah, okay, I don't know. Yeah, always good to learn
about the Brits.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
You got, don't know, want to take another day off?
So it is an intel Boxing day and year nineteen
hundred when the Northern Lighthouse Board, it's like the board
of the lighthouse finally send a boat to the island
to see what's going on. This boat is called the
Hyspirus and on it is a lighthouse keeper familiar with
the island named Joseph Moore. So there are a total
of four lighthouse keepers assigned to this lighthouse. So those

(50:20):
three that are there and another one they each take
two week shifts away from the island. So the other
three who are supposed to be on the island are
named James Duckett who's forty three, Thomas Marshall who's twenty eight,
and Donald MacArthur who's forty.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Real quick, Yeah, would you ever take a job on
a lighthouse island if it was just you a B?
If it was you and two other people?

Speaker 3 (50:46):
If I had to choose one of those two options,
you can either choose.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Or you can talk about A and then talk about B.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Okay, I guess it depends on the other two people.
What if they're fucking annoying?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
True? Right, two old sailors? How about the that's who
it is? Would you do that? Hell? And or would
you do it by yourself as.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
A female forty year old female?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
No?

Speaker 3 (51:07):
As another old timeyse Scottish lighthouse fishermen.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, yes, they won't hurt you, Okay, okay, they're decent
human beings, true, gentlemen, fun, they play cards, they love
uno and drink.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
I got stop it, giant Jenga.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
I'm there right, Okay, I'm just saying to me, it
does sound like a little vacation where it's like you're
just saying, I get to post up for two weeks
and I kind of don't have to do anything at all.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah. Yes, And there's whiskey, yeah, like good whiskey.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
And you're helping ships.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Oh that's okay, Yes, that's my answer. I'm assuming yours
is too.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
M hm.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
So Joseph, the guy who's coming over, knows these three
men very well, obviously, since he spent a lot of
time weeks long shifts with them on the island doing
exactly what we just said, playing Giant Jenga. And you know,
and James is in charge, and he's a veteran lighthouse keeper.
He has a wife and four children, but is unmarried.
One of the guys, Donald, is also married, but it's

(52:03):
unclear if he has kids, and he's said to really
dislike his job posting there at the lighthouse. He's considered
an occasional keeper, only filling in when the schedule demands.
So it seems like it's the other two guys who'd
like actually want to be there.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
I wonder if it was like really good pay because
it's a pain.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Yeah, oh yeah, that's a good point, Like fishing in
Alaska kind of thing. Yeah pays well, but you might.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Die, yeah, or go crazy from just being just sitting somewhere.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Like podcasting, Yeah pays well, but you might die just
from sitting somewhere, just from sitting and talking. It's dangerous. Typically,
when a Northern Lighthouse board boat approached the dock at
Eileen Moore, the lighthouse keepers would come down the long
staircase from a lighthouse to the dock at the bottom
of the cliff, like they could see a boat coming
from far away and they knew that meant to go downstairs.

(52:52):
The staircase has to make a hairpin turn because the
cliff is so steep, and as the hysperis approaches, they
can clearly see that no one is coming down the
stairs to greet them. The boat fires a rocket, which ordinarily,
of course, would elicit a reaction from the lighthouse keepers,
but it is like eerily quiet, not a sign of
a person not cool. Joseph gets off the boat to

(53:14):
see what the hell's going on. He leaves behind the
captain and the small crew. He goes up there alone,
no thank you, and he starts making his way up
the stairs to the top of the cliff. And Joseph
is gripped by a terrible sense of foreboding while he
makes this long climb up the steep hill.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Me too during cardio every time.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Yeah, it gets makes you lightheaded, and.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
It's like, this does not feel right.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
This is bad. This shouldn't be happening.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
This is going to turn up bad.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
I have a bad telling about this. When Joseph gets
to the top of the cliff, he enters the men's
living quarters at the base of the lighthouse. The doors
are closed. Inside, the beds are made, the kitchen is clean.
This is almost like creepier than it had been totally overturned.
There's one chair knocked over, just one. That's the only

(54:04):
fucking weird thing, you know what I mean, m that's creepy.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
All the clocks are unwound, which suggests that no one's
been in the residence for at least a week, because
that's how often the clocks need to be wound.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
So there's some deduction. So then Joseph goes up to
the lighthouse tower and sees that the light itself is
full of fuel. It's clean, it's functional. He also finds
a canary in a cage, which was kept at the
top of the tower for some reason. The canary is
starving but still alive.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Oh and then I wrote, peachey, peachy, A bitter little bird,
A bitter little bird. I wonder if that they're kept
there for some kind of a like if there's a
gas escaping.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Yeah, like a canary and a coal mine.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah type of thing. I mean, I guess that's really weird.
Or maybe they were just keeping a bird.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Maybe it's just company. Yeah, well, I think that thing
was probably really loud.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
You know, you're in a bad spot when you need
bird company.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Right, and you need bird company or a bird to
tell you if the air is.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Safe to bring that's like an extreme living Yeah, get
a dog.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
At this point, Joseph is like, oh fuck, runs down
the stairs summons more people from the boat to come
help him search the island. Two men return to the
island with Joseph, while the captain takes the boat back
to the mainland to send him telegram to the northern
lighthouse board. The telegram opens with a dreadful accident has
happened at Flannin's. So they're already like there's nowhere they

(55:29):
could have gone. Something's fucking wrong.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, it's bad.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Joseph and the two other men stay on the island
to keep the lighthouse lit and to keep trying to
figure out what's going on. On the western side of
the island, where the steepest cliff's face is so, there's
a little tramway that was built to haul supplies from
the ships. This tramway has iron railings, and the men
find that the iron railings have been bent fully in half.

(55:54):
On a path that runs along the same cliff. Near
the tramway, there's usually a canvas life preserver attack a
bolt in the rock face, like really high up, and
that's been ripped away, and a scrape of canvas is
still connected to the bolt, almost like a monster came
and just fucking flung everything. There's also a very sturdy
bolted down box which usually contains supplies that's gone. And

(56:19):
there's a larger boulder on the island that's always been
in one specific spot seemingly immovable, and that's been dislodged
and rolled away.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Fuck wait where is is it further away or do
we know? Or is it gone?

Speaker 3 (56:32):
I don't know, it says rolled away, meaning maybe it's
still there, so probably still there. God. Yeah, Now all
of this points too obviously, as you said, an extreme storm. However,
the weather on the day the lighthouse was first reported
to be dark, December fifteenth, was maybe a little stormy,
but not super remarkable. Also, the people who put in

(56:54):
those things, the tram and the supply box and the rock,
which probably did so having known what the strongest storm
was going to be. Yes, yes, right, they didn't just
like put it in there and be like, hope, no
storm is worse than a normal storm.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
I hope nothing crazy and big and windy happens out
here in the middle of the ocean.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Right exactly the crossed Yeah, you think there'd be plans.
But there was a massive storm a few days later,
but that wouldn't explain the light being out days before, right,
So giving further credence to this having happened before the
big storm. Joseph can pinpoint when during the day on
the fifteenth something must have happened based on the chores

(57:36):
around the lighthouse. They've clearly been done. They do things
at a certain time probably, and make beds and have
a like they're organized, right, Yeah, I hope so they're
not living in chaos. He knows when the men completed
all of their morning work, and that whatever happened to
them must have happened in the afternoon because that morning
work had been completed. Which I love the deduction there.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah, Like they're not waking up one day and it's
mayhem and they have to run all over and forget
to wash the dishes because they have to run out
and do a thing. It's like normal day. As far
as you can tell.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
They're not like us. There's not like, you know, chip
bags next to their beds until they decide to clean
them up three days later.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
They came into this office I'm in right now, they'd
just be like, oh, things are not okay with it.
She's hoarding. She's lightly hoarding, like printer paper, and she's
got a lot of clothes that she wants to drop
off with the goodwill. But she's simply not doing it.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
There's no way.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
She's a lighthouse keeper essentially, but they not qualified.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
She's not qualified.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
She's never done it and she needs to stop asking.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Okay. So then back in the lodging quarters, James and
Thomas's waterproof coats are missing from their hooks, but Donald's
coat is still there. So that kind of explains some
but not totally what's going on. Joseph turns his town.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Well, you're describing this to me. Yeah, I'm going to
downb my theory. Okay, sorry, I just do it. Somethingy
popped it away.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Can you write the word wave down. I'll be very angry.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
You write rogue wave and then recommend the band rod
called rogue Wave. There is a band called I Know.
They're the best I know. So then Joseph's like, let's
go to the log book. There's a log book, turns
out and there he finds some strange entries. So the
log is generally supposed to be about weather conditions and
practical matters. It's not your fucking love life. You're just

(59:29):
supposed to be like, here's what happened.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Fog rolled in, fog rolled out the end the end,
Dear Diary. But in the days leading up to the disappearance,
there's one entry that simply says James do cut irritable
and another says MacArthur crying. So what the fuck? That
is to me the creepiest part of this, like and

(59:53):
the most like something else is going on story. The
last entry from December fifteenth says, quote storm ended see
calm God is over all end quote Uh oh, So
that like now we're talking about, like why I'm telling
the story on the podcast. Like that's fucking creepy because the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Idea of like the threat of a terrible storm is
kind of argued in the logbook because.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
There shouldn't be any logbook entries about people crying or
someone being irritable or something going wrong. It's supposed to
say this storm, that storm, maybe some fucking longitjudal logit,
judinal numbers, you know, basic stuff that you and I
wouldn't really understand or think is interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Yeah, I got you. It's technical. It is not personal, yes,
that whole thing. That's why we were saying it's not
dear diary in any way. Also, especially back then, I
think it's a pretty big goddamn deal to write down
that a man is crying.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
A man's crying and irritable. And also those men would
have access to the logbooks and would have seen that
someone wrote that about them, So it's just kind of weird. Yeah,
I will say, and I have to say this in fairness.
Some people think these entries were forged, and also they
appear to have first come into public consciousness in pulp
magazine articles after the fact. But they are always mentioned

(01:01:14):
in every retelling of this story. So what's up to
you if you want to believe them. I think it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
We might as well believe everything at this moment. Let's
do it and then we can change our mind later.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
So the most popular working theory, let's get into some theories,
is that some kind of bad weather or waves that
started damaging the box of supplies that was ultimately washed away.
Like they went after that supply box. So James and Thomas,
whose coats were missing, ran out to start securing the box,
and then something happened, and then Donald ran out without

(01:01:45):
his coat, which is why I was left behind to
help them. And people believe that they were all swept
away by a massive wave. When the Superintendent of the
Northern Lighthouse Board visits the island to make his own inquiry,
this is the conclusion he comes up with. Sure it
makes sense after the disappearance. A photographer visits the island
in bad weather and documents the massive waves that can

(01:02:06):
reach up and over the top of the cliffs, which
fuck can you imagine, like take me home?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
And also when if the storm is that bad and
the waves are that big, then you can assume there's
some nice strong gusts of wind that flip in all
over that island as well.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
That's right. This is what's wrong with me is I
don't think about stuff like that. So I bring a
dumb cute jacket and then I'm fucking freezing and soaking
wet wherever I go.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I've been with you when it's been thirteen degrees in Washington, DC,
and you're like, I've got this leather jacket and that's
a bear and a dress and bare legs, and I'm
just gonna do this thing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Definitely, I'm real cocky when they're gonna California of you,
real cocky. So it is possible, just the strange that
it happened on the fifteenth when no one seems to
have noticed particularly bad weather, like they would have noted it,
and other sailors would have noted it if they were
bad weather. And it's also highly unlikely. But all three
men went out at one time because someone always had

(01:03:03):
to stay back at the lighthouse. So this would mean
that there had to have been multiple massive waves to
wash all three men away. So we're not believing that one.
Oh okay, great, no we can, but we're not. Then
we start getting into other theories about disagreements between the
men that led to some sort of violence. Remember there
was that one chair knocked over. People point out that

(01:03:24):
MacArthur had hated working at the lighthouse and was actually
known to have a history of fighting, but there's really
no heart evidence that points to anything having happened between
the men. And then, of course we have to get
into the paranormal, the fun stuff. What was that show
when we were kids' Amazing Stories? Oh I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I ever saw that, My god, Amazing Stories. I'm gonna
look that up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
So when we talk about the paranormal, they are the
legends about the fairies and the phantom and the group
of original Islanders was all come up, of course. And
then the theory is that one of these forces was
resentful for the new lighthouse because member had just been built.
Oh yeah, and so it took out the three lighthouse
keepers for that reason, and of course you can't escape

(01:04:06):
the theory of fucking aliens, aliens, aliens and actually.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
This is a Scottish aliens. No way, lighthousekeepers aren't aliens.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
Aliens come down, Okay. I just don't think they'd go
to Scotland.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
I just don't. I think that that's where they're going
to get the most resistance, the most fistfighting Hellia anywhere Scotland, Ireland.
You just don't mess with those people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
You absolutely should not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Don't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
And actually that theme is explored in an episode of
Doctor Who.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
That's really that's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Yeah, So the lighthouse continues to operate with lighthouse keepers
without an incident until the nineteen seventies when it becomes automated,
which is like, you know, tragic, Yeah, And it's inspired
lots of retellings in pop culture. The band Genesis I
Thought You'd Love This recorded a song called the Miss
of Flannon Isle Lighthouse in the late sixties. Oh your

(01:05:04):
favorite band? Love that band, And in twenty nineteen Gerard
Butler start in a very loose retelling of the mystery
called The Vanishing, The Vanishing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yeah, if Gerard Butler stars in it. I've definitely seen
it because that was my friend Jacob and I. We
would watch Gerard Butler movies as they came out on
Amazon together, like we would hit play at the same
time and then text each other during the movie. So
I've literally not missed a Gerard Butler movie for like
five years.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
What do you recommend? What's the best one?

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
I mean, it depends on what you're looking for. There's
one where is it aliens attack or it's like the
end of the world kind of situation and he has
to go. Gerard Butler's always playing like a rock like
character where he's like a very noble father who has
to go get his family and maybe his wife who's
trying to leave him, but he convinces her to stay
because he rescues them.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
Like a Pedro Pascal kind of a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yes, okay, yeah, love it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Well, that wraps up the story. Oh the Flannin Aisle
lighthouse mystery.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
I didn't get a chance to give my theory.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Oh yeah, what was it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Gigantic gust of wind. So the guy that stays behind
whose jackets is there? Yeah, watches the two guys get
blown off the cliff and into the ocean.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Right like, you're gonna be like, fuck protocol.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
You're gonna fucking go down there and be like, at
least could I throw them that life preserver that's stuck
to the side of the cliff or something right like
in a panic, but the wind would still be going
right and then he gets out there and just also
gets blown off. I like that one. That was good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
I thank you. Yours was great. Mine was a stretch.
But let's just keep it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Listen, we want to sometimes talk about things that are
more fun to talk about it and maybe mysterious, but
not you know, a total downer, not the worst thing
you've ever heard. I just try to turn it every
once in a while, just to bring it up before
we leave you hanging, before you look for the rest
of your for fright.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
And you made it and you did it, and we're
proud of you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
We're so proud of you. You are the lighthouse keeper
of our souls.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
And really, we would never automate you, we would never.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Know, we can't, we can't let me want. We need you,
a real human in that lighthouse, the lighthouse of podcasting.
That's right, and so thank you for doing it. Thank
you and stay.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Get by Elvis.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Do you want a Cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
This has been an exactly Right production.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Our editor is Aristotle os Vedo.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Our researchers are Marion McGlashan and Alie Elkin.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Podcasts and now. You can watch us on Exactly Right's
YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe. Good
by bye