June 12, 2025 • 53 mins
This week, Georgia and Karen cover the kidnapping and survival of Elizabeth Smart.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
That's Georgia Hartstark.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's Karen Kilgarriff. Can I tell you something sad? Yeah,
and I don't want to do with there's a dead
crow in my pool this morning. No, is that a
bad omen for me or for the crow?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, it's definitely for the crow and all.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The other crows in the neighborhood going to think that
we killed.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
They don't think you're responsible for the pool?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I bet what are they? What are they're flying over
when I was trying to get him out and it
looked like I was drowning.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're afraid the crows are coming for you?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, after everything I've done for crows, I mean, they
got to have some good faith in your participation. But
what did you do with the crow's body?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I left it for Vince to deal with good.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Because then he's to look it up to be like,
what what do crows want you to do in this situation? Right?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right? I don't know. I have a bonfire, but I
don't know. It was so disturbing, and also like how
did it die? Why is there something more we should
worry about? I'm not going in that pool ever. Again,
so you should probably move.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Sure, I think you should make a bunch of decisions
like that based on this. Don't look anything up, don't.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
It was so sad.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, that's awful.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I was like hoping it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Was just yeah, yeah, that's rough. Also, it's like, I
think the connection of like birds and omens and stuff
is crow of all like and then your favorite. So
it's almost like, right, that's very sad.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Which is worse that? Or when I found the dug
up cremains of a pet in my front yard.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I think that this crow is worse because the crow
is like the cremaines were like a bag of something.
And then you're just like, what, but right.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I don't know yours? Will you vote at home?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Which is work, which is worse than Georgia's, And then
describe how it's worse for Georgia And it's what you
think is going to be happening to her, like a
witch knocks at you're do it?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Did you drown my crow? Oh God? I have had
birds flying to the house, and I always was taught
or heard that birds in the house are very bad.
Luck like that they but moths are good fortil moths
are good. But I mean, but here's the thing. It's
like the way my house is there's windows at the
back in front, and birds think it's a through way totally.
So I've had so many birds in my house that
(02:30):
at this point I'm just like, I can't it's not
proving out to be a real thing.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, but I did it. It's like, be careful about birds.
Be careful about yeah, be kind of birds. Be kind
of birds. Can you throw it a couple of sparkly
things for them to be happy about.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'll do that, yeah. Or dog treats. They like they
give me sparkly things, right.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh, I guess that's true.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Dog treats.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I thought they like sparkly things.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I'll give them sparkly things. Diamond, diamond, here's my wedding.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm sorry for your friend. The loss of a friend
is very difficult.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay, yeah, okay. So we're going to follow through on
something we've talked.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
About in the past, can you believe it?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So a couple of weeks ago, I gave Karen a book,
a self help book, and we decided we're going to
do a self help book club. And so we just
want to remind you guys to pick up this book
if you want to follow along. It's called Emotional Agility,
Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life
by Susan David. So while we're on our little vacation,
(03:32):
we're going to both read that probably maybe or yes,
you'll never hear about it again.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We're going to do it because people want a book
club of some kind and we can at least approach it.
And I did like your original idea, which is read
it and then you say what you learned, and I'll
say what I learned.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, and the next time you pick one.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, exactly, okay, and people can write in. But also,
who recommended that book to you first? Your therapist?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
No, no, it was on one of those like ten
books That'll change your life?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Oh lists?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah okay, yeah, so are you ready to have your
life change?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm ready and willing. I need it. Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Then I'm excited about this because I'm interested in reading
this book, but I just don't make time for reading.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, so it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Will make me do that. Yeah, Like you have to
take that book with me on my break and then
get through it and treated us homework.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
If you don't do it, a crow will die.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, no, we will drown up, drown one crow for
every You're just like outside drinking your coffee like it's
Siday's gonna be a great deal.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Anything else, I.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Don't think so. Should we just talk about our network?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, let's talk about our podcast network called My Favorite
Nope call exactly right.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Media. Oh well, this is kind of breaking news about
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(05:03):
fan cults.
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Yep, it's not a big deal. Just do it. And
this is your last chance. This is your last warning
to join the fan cult right now at a discounted price.
So now through Friday, June thirteenth, you can get the
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Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, eight dollars a month or there's the yearly is
actually less than eight dollars a month would add up
to eighty dollars.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, it's a deal all around.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Eight times twelve is eighty.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
No, I think it's cheaper. I don't know. Ninety six, okay,
so it's yeah, so there's a discount all all around.
You want to pay for the year, you'll get into
a bigger discount.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That's right. We're trying to point out that we're passing
the savings along to you. I'm crazy, Larry.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I've got to get rid.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Of these teeths. I can't do basic multiplication. I can't
tell you how much twelve times eight is. That's too bad.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Here be guesse what we can tell you about merch
that's right, because we have this cute pin to show you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That's right, this cute pin that actually sold out almost
immediately when we put it out last time. So look
at that. Look at the action on that pin. You
can figure out what mood you're in. It's the MFM
mood pin. And what are those emotions?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's are you stay out at the forest? Are you
stay sexy? Don't get murdered? Are you? Here's the thing?
Fuck everyone? Or are you? This is terrible. Keep going.
You just spin this little hand that has an MFM
on it and it tells you what you are.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And that's like, if you want to only communicate through
these pins, we support you entirely and just throw it
right over to go fuck yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I love it. That's very cute.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So go to exactly rightstore dot com to order those pins.
Get yours now before they're all sold out again.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
We'll love them. They're going to sell out. You've got
the home shopping network thing down.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You know what, merch and I love getting through a
solo episode.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, you don't have to do jec shit.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know it's the best.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Okay, I now it's worktime for me.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, do you need anything from me?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
No, I think I'm okay, just weird steely stare, yeah,
definitely like stir me down.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Okay, it makes me really.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Uncomfortable, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Or I'm going to do this thing this second. You
look up, I'm gonna look down. Just three your papers
or something like that, or just a lot of under audio.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, get serious. This is a serious one. Yeah. It's
a heavy hitter.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I didn't want to do it until I read the
autobiography about it, and I did so. Today's story is
about a kidnapping in June of two thousand and two
in Salt Lake City. You can only mean one thing.
This is a kidnapping and survival story of Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Smart, and it's her version of it.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, it's called my story. I read it. It's incredible, brilliant,
it's just like so moving. And then there's also a
docu series that she's in called Autobiography Elizabeth Smart. And
then the rest of their sources can be found in
the show notes. Here we are. It's June sixth two
thousand and two. Do you know this one well or not? Well?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean I know it enough to like, if
you ask me, I think I would pass a test.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
It's the one with that. But you don't know like
the details.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yes, but here's one detail I do remember, kind of
separate is our first show in Salt Lake City. Member
the audience member that gave us the picture where it
was Elizabeth Smart at the party.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, I'm going to get to that. It's so fucking crazy.
It's so crazy. And then also, like I always I
used to think of the J. C. Duggard story as well,
which I also read her autobiography, so they're very different,
although they're similar in a lot of ways as well.
So it's June sixth, two thousand and two. It's a warm,
quiet night in the Federal Heights neighborhood of Salt Lake City, Utah. Obviously,
(08:52):
Federal Heights sits at the foothills of the Wassatch Mountains,
perched above the downtown area. So there's a out of like,
you know, mountainous terrain and how beautiful nature is in Utah. Incredible.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Remember that view out that hotel we got to stay
at untour or not? Yes, yes, the mountains and then
the fog world do no?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know what I remember is that they had uh tea.
I remember the food.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, we just had an or maybe it was just
my room. Maybe you were on the other side. I
faced the mountain range and then watched a storm front
come over the mountain range and change the entire view
and then go away, and I was like, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I love whether it's just we don't have it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Here, Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So this is where the Smart family lives. Ed and
Lois Smart have six children, four boys and two girls.
Elizabeth is the second oldest child and the oldest girl,
the big sister. She's fourteen years old, and she's asleep
in the room she shares with her nine year old
sister Mary Catherine. At about two in the morning, Elizabeth
(09:58):
opens her eyes to what seems like like a nightmare,
but when a few minutes she realizes it's real. It's
a man standing in their bedroom, dressed all in black.
And then he's standing over her and she feels something
cold and sharp against her neck and he says, quote,
I have a knife to your throat. Don't make a sound,
get out of bed, or I'll kill you and your family.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
This is the rarest kind of a true crime, right,
this is the stranger abduction is so rare, and it's
just so creepy, and it's like everyone's worst nightmare.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And then imagine you're a kid and you're in a
house of eight people, including sharing a room with your
little sister. Yep, it's just unfathomable.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
It's unfathomable, and it's similar to polyclasses taken out of
a place where everyone is feels safe.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, totally, so, Elizabeth says, quote, it really seemed like
either do what he says, and go with him, or
have your neck cut open and die. End quote. The
man makes Elizabeth get out of bed, he makes her
get her sneakers. She asked him why he's doing this,
and he says, quote, I'm taking you hostage for ransom.
End quote. So, as she's being walked through the hallway
(11:08):
of her home, Elizabeth silently prays that her parents will
wake up and come rescue her, but she also worries
that the man has already killed her family. She doesn't know,
right that's definitely a possibility. So she only knows for
sure that her little sister, who she shares a room with,
is still alive, and she wants to keep it that way,
and so she complies. The house remains silent, and the
(11:28):
man walks Elizabeth out the slide and glass door to
the backyard. Elizabeth's house is at the base of a mountain.
There's one more residential street behind the house, and after
that there's just a trail that goes uphill. This story
has so many moments of close calls of her being
rescued that it's so frustrating, and this immediately is one
(11:49):
of them. Because the cop car drives and doesn't see
anything nightmare. Yeah. So the man leads her uphill with
the knife at her back. She tries on multiple occasions
to bargain with him, saying that her parents will pay
this ransom that he said he's after and that they
won't press charges. She gets to a point where she
tells him that if his plan is to rape and
kill her, he should just do it here right there,
(12:11):
because she wants her parents to be able to find
her body. I know, Elizabeth says that. He then smiles,
which is a look that chills her to the bone,
and he says, quote, I'm not going to rape and
kill you yet end quote.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I think most of us have seen pictures of this man,
and it is like so sinister to think of it
this way, where he's like truly looks like a boogeyman.
He's like confusing looking and very like almost like ancient
looking and creepy.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, like someone that if you saw on the street,
you would avoid as a woman, as a woman alone
on the street, you would not be comfortable walking past
this person.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So that guy smiling in the woods of like and
saying that sentence, yeah, like man, yeah, horrifying.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It is so at daybreak as they're still walking. Elizabeth
gets a better look at her captor and she realizes
that she recognizes him. He's a man who did yard
work at her her family's house for one day. Months earlier.
He had introduced himself as Immanuel, and when she had
met him, he had been clean shaven, and now he
has a long, scraggly beard, but she can tell it's
(13:13):
definitely him. The family had first met Emmanuel on a
street corner in downtown Salt Lake City in the fall
of two thousand and one, about eight months prior. The
kids in Lois The mom had been back to school
shopping and they saw him panhandling, and they are a
charitable family, so the boys, the smart boys, asked their
mom if there was any work that they could give
(13:34):
him around the house, and she gives him a five
dollar bill and says that you know there is work
for you to do if you around the house for money,
if you can come. Elizabeth later writes quote, what I
didn't know but would later learn was that he had
been watching me very carefully as we walked toward him.
He had taken the opportunity to study me further. As
(13:54):
my mom searched through her purse. He remembered everything about me,
the clothes I was wearing, blonde hair, the way I
looked up at my mother, the color of my eyes,
And though he was careful not to show it, he
decided that moment that I was the one like He
was already looking to pray on someone. When the Smart
family does wind up hiring Emmanuel to rake leaves and
repair the roof at their house, he learns where she
(14:17):
lives that way, and he spends the next couple of
months devising his plan to kidnap Elizabeth. Emmanuel's actual name
is Brian David Mitchell, and at this point he's about
forty nine years old. Elizabeth makes it clear in her
book that everything she's learned about him has been against
her will, so we won't talk too much about him,
(14:37):
but she briefly outlines how he has a history of
substance abuse and as a teenager he had been charged
for exposing himself to a younger child. He had been
married three times and had thirteen children and step children Jesus,
and among those children were other charges of abuse. So
this is just a bad, bad man. Back to that morning,
(14:57):
when they get to the top of the mountain. They
walk into a densely wooded area and then Elizabeth sees
a campsite. Mitchell calls out a name, it's Hepziba. Then
Elizabeth hears a woman's voice yelling his name Emmanuel in return,
and then an eerie looking woman steps out of the tent.
I always think of the Princess Bride when yeah, a witch. Yeah,
(15:22):
she has messy, stringy, long gray hair, and she's wearing
a set of white robes. Like how chilling for out
in the child to see.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
This is like a grim's fairy tale gone totally wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And then yeah, and then also seeing a woman, there's
like a part of you where it's like, oh, maybe
I'm saved because it's not just this creepy man with yes,
but right immediately realizing it's.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Not the case, she's like crawling out of a well
basically of just like this is as scary as it
can be totally.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
This woman is Wanda Barzie. She's in her late fifties
and she's Mitchell's third wife. Barsie had also been previously
married has six children, but she relinquished her parental rights
when she met and married Mitchell, so as Mitchell and
Elizabeth enter the campsite, Barzie envelops Elizabeth in a hug
that feels more menacing than comforting. So one thing that
(16:14):
neither Elizabeth nor her captors realize is that Elizabeth's little sister,
nine year old Mary Catherine, had actually woken up and
seen almost the whole kidnapping. I didn't know that. Yeah,
I'm That's what I'm telling you. I know. Elizabeth and
Mary Catherine are very close. Every night Elizabeth reads out
loud from a chapter book to her little sister. On
(16:35):
the night of the kidnapping, they had been in the
middle of Ella enchanted. Right after Elizabeth is taken out
of her room, she attempts to go wake up her parents,
but she gets freaked out thinking that Elizabeth and her
captor are still there, so she runs back to her
room and hides into the covers and stays there for
about two hours until she can get the courage to
(16:56):
go wake up her parents.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
The fact that she could go and do it at
all is unbelievable. That is the scariest thing. A man
with a fucking knife in your room.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, takes your sister.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
The idea that she wasn't just stuck there till the
morning is She's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
When she gets the nerve away her parents and tells
them Elizabeth has been taken. The three of them go
downstairs together and when Lois turns on the lights, she
immediately sees an open kitchen window and that the screen
at the window had been sliced open, and she starts
screaming yeah. Unfortunately, the situation unfolds similarly to in the
(17:32):
John Maney Ramsay case and its mistakes that are immediately made.
Ed calls the police, but he also calls lots of
friends and family members, obviously to come help look for
his daughter Elizabeth. But the inexperienced graveyard shift police officers
that first show up don't lock down the house, and
pretty quickly every last inch of it has been completely trampled.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Now, I could totally be wrong. I have no idea.
It seems to me you want the experienced people on
the night shift. It's nighttime shift.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Can we have the experienced people on the all shifts?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Good point? But I guess the answer is no. So
if we had to split it, yeah, can't the inexperienced
people do stuff during the.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Day, Yeah, bad things happen at night.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's when the evils come out. I don't know, but
I hear you someone's like and the actual fact of
that isn't for is the time, it's all bad. It's
all bad.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
By the time an experienced detective gets there at six am.
He says that Elizabeth's room and the rest of the
house is quote contaminated beyond all hope. So all members
of the Smart family are questioned individually by police, of course,
and Mary Catherine recounts what she saw. She says she
believes she heard Elizabeth Captor say the word ransom, which
(18:44):
she's right he did say, although he was lying. Ed
Smart's brother, the dad's brother, works for the Desiret News,
which is one of the main newspapers in Utah. So
later that day, the Smarts appear before the media and
Ed's brother gets Elizabeth's photo out and storied out to
all the national news outlets, and it's a huge story
(19:06):
immediately on cable news. By that evening. You know, we
have to say it's a beautiful blonde girl who goes
missing from a religious family.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So in the mid two thousands, right, right, two.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Thousand and two. Meanwhile we're back at this campsite and
the woman Elizabeth knows now as hetz Ofba washes Elizabeth's
feet almost like a ritual thing, and then forces Elizabeth
to change out of her red pajamas into a set
of white robes similar to what she's wearing. And this
it's so hard to read her account of this, but
(19:39):
it's incredible that she was able to express herself. Elizabeth
is left alone in the tent and Emmanuel comes back in.
He's now wearing a similar set of robes, and he
performs what he tells Elizabeth is a marriage ceremony, and
afterwards he rapes her, just immediately after kidnapping her.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Right the only reason he did it, I mean, like
the idea that he has roped in some woman to
somehow virtualize that is disgusting and.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Thinking about God somehow, yes, or just the most evil
fucking thing.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Jesus is the one who washed people's feet. You can
get up because no one's buying that from you. Man.
Exactly so gross.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And so Elizabeth is a member of the LDS Church,
of course, and writes about how her faith helped her
survive her terrible ordeal. But in the years since her kidnapping,
she's also become a vocal critic of the purity culture
in which she was raised. It's really interesting because she
had grown up being told that her worth was tied
(20:40):
to her virginity. It was taken away from her forcefully,
and then she immediately felt worthless, and she doesn't think
that that's fair. After she was raped, she says that
she struggled with a sense of worthlessness that immediately followed,
and it made her almost reluctant to seek help during
(21:00):
different points in her captivity, like she didn't feel worth
saving anymore. Yeah, she says, she thought, quote why would
it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even
make a difference if you are rescued, your life still
has no value end quote.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's weird that that's the message coming from a religion.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So it just isn't because who does that actually affect.
They're not saying that the man right has no value,
it's the woman always totally.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
On many occasions, Elizabeth has criticized the abstinence only education
she was given, which, when she was experiencing the worst
suffering of her life, made her think of herself as
quote a chewed up piece of gum. So she's finding
against that, which is incredible.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So Mitchell puts a wire cable around Elizabeth's ankle and
he then attaches that to a tree, so there's no
opportunity for her to try to run away.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sorry, really quick. But that just that linking all of
that together. This is why I'm so excited that she
wrote an autobiography because that idea of I never thought
about that of the Purity culture, because there was the
time where before she was actually found, where they took
film of her walking down the street with them. It's like,
why would she do this? And it's like instead of
actually finding out why, it was just people wanting to scream,
(22:14):
like she must have wanted to be with her or something,
instead of like track it to why she would be
feeling that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I mean, she was already indoctrinated in this religious practice,
so ideology and believe this thing about herself.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
There's the answers right there.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, and the answer is, you know, no one knows
how they'll react in a situation that's so traumatic, So
shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, okay, shut up. So no more question was so Karen?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Okay, So at the bottom of the mountain, a massive
search effort mobilizes to look for Elizabeth. Around ten thousand
volunteers show up to help. It's a huge story. On
the third day of Elizabeth's disappearance, after not sleeping ed,
her father suffers a breakdown and is briefly hospitalized, but
the search efforts continue. On that same day, while at
the campsite, Elizabeth actually hears her name called out by searchers.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
She is elated, thinking she's going to be rescued, but
she's sitting right in between Mitchell and Barzi at the campsite.
Mitchell picks up a knife and says he'll kill her
if she makes any noise, and to elizabeth horror, the
voice is fade and she doesn't ever hear anyone searching
for her again, except she does hear helicopters flying right
above the campsite, which is like it's shaking the tent.
(23:32):
It's so close, but it's hidden by a dense crop
cop overgrowth of trees. Thank you, o crop. Yeah, no, cops,
what is it? I've been reading too many fucking Scottish books.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Cops, Cops, the TV show no one are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Cops of trees, Yes, thank you I've literally been reading
Irish and Scottish books lately, and how do you spell
cops corps? Right?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Copsc that's a cop psc. I literally never heard that
word before. Okay, amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I think I only read it, which is why I
didn't know how to.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
That's what happens to readers.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Okay. So over the coming weeks of Smart Family, they
come under scrutiny at first, but soon the focus falls
on a man who did some construction work around the
Smart house also, but it's a different man completely. This
man had a criminal history and possibly had stolen from
the Smart swell working on their house. Like he's a
good looking suspect for this crime. He's also accused of
(24:34):
breaking and entering and stealing in other homes around the neighborhood.
But Mary Catherine, Elizabeth's little sister, tells her parents she
is positive that he is not the person she saw
in her room the night of Elizabeth's disappearance. But of
course she's nine, and they're like, uh huh, shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know, I want Mary Catherine's autobiography now, seriously, I mean,
a nine year old that has to fight.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
For her sister, why do you hear what shesa.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I'm definitely crying during the safe.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Then, about six weeks after Elizabeth's kidnapping, while this other
dude is in custody being questioned, Mitchell tells Elizabeth that
he's going to kidnap Elizabeth's cousin. Elizabeth had casually brought
up her cousin in a previous conversation, which is how
Mitchell had come up with the idea. So Elizabeth's cousin,
who is around the same age as Elizabeth, named Olivia.
(25:21):
Fifty days after Elizabeth's abduction, the Right family basically they
awakened to someone trying to climb through a window in
their house cut the screen, just like at Elizabeth's house,
but Elizabeth's cousin, Olivia, had actually been sleeping on the
floor of her parents' bedroom at the time. Because everyone
is so freaked.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Out, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
However, her sister would have been asleep in the bedroom
if Mitchell had made it in, but he didn't. They
woke up and chased him off. So the guy that
they think did it is in custody when that happens, right,
so like, maybe it's not him. No, police are not
convinced at the time that they have the wrong guy.
But at the same time, you can't be like, that's
(26:01):
great that they kept you know what I mean, Like
it could have been a copycat. We're talking shit because
now we know that it's kindsight, but he's still a
suspect for a reason.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Right, And I mean it's that idea of like, if
you have a person that's checking seven of the ten boxes,
you can't just be like, yeah, that's right, something else
happened similar.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Right, we would have been talking shit on that if
that was the case. Right. So, but the Smart family,
they totally believe it means the kidnapper is still at large.
And since he knew about Olivia, the cousin like specifically
that that might mean that Elizabeth is still alive, got
it because she talked about her. She's just gonna give
some hope. Yeah. So back at the campsite, Elizabeth is
sexually abused nearly every day. Mitchell calls Elizabeth by a
(26:44):
different name. Shear's a shob is her name some biblical
It's an obscure Old Testament reference. He forces her to
drink alcohol, which is against her religion. He also makes
her talk in a biblical way. Lots of these and
thousand cow.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Treaes cops of trees? Will you please say cops of
trees instead of forest? She's just like dude.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Elizabe spends a total of six weeks tied to that
tree at the campsite before Mitchell and Barzi decide to
start making regular trips down into Salt Lake City as
a group.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
So she just has to for almost two months just
camp with these psychos and stay alive.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, and get sexually assaulted and raped on the daily.
That's such a long time. It's horrible, Like this is
just so brazen. They take her with them. They all
wear there are white robes, but Barzi and Elizabeth cover
their hair and faces with white veils so only their
eyes can be seen. They look like some kind of
(27:50):
religious fundamentalists, which stands out even in Salt Lake City
where everyone is and Elizabeth says that people would just
quickly look away uncomfortably whenever they passed. On one occasion,
they're at a grocery store and the cashier invites them
to a house party, and they go. It's a house
that regularly hosts events for the Salt Lake City counterculture scene,
(28:11):
which is like kind of punk you know, and there's
usually a performance art element to these events. So they
see these people who obviously have these certain beliefs and like, hey,
come to our party. These guys would be cool to
talk to this guy because the women don't speak, so
they invite him, and they are photographs of them at
the party, Like you said, and like hindsight, of course,
(28:34):
you look at the photo. It's like a close up
and it's so clearly her to us, and it's just
so heartbreaking and hard to look at, and you can't
help but be like if I were there, I would
have done this then that, but you wouldn't have, you know,
And like there's a picture of him talking to a girl.
She's like, call tat it up. She looks like a
murdering now, she looks very cool. She's probably like has
(28:55):
her sensors up. And I'm sure she's just like I
should have known, because they do later talk about feeling
guilty that they didn't figure it out.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Of course, but it's like, first of all, two thousand
and two is a time of great toxicity in our
culture in general, and so that idea of like I
have an inkling of something, and I'm worried about it,
but everyone stay quiet with everything because there was no
kind of here's a pattern. If you call the cops
or if you're going to try to draw attention to
(29:25):
something as a woman by yourself, here's how it's going
to go. Yeah, everyone's going to say you're crazy and
weird and like not go with you. I think so
many women had experience that, where as twenty twenty five
girls you literally have to like look up and give
somebody a look and people will be like, hey, girl,
what's up. You're coming with us?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Like the hand gestures down.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's changed profoundly, whereas before it was like you don't
want to step out of Lyne even at like a
punk party totally.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
And on this occasion at the party, fourteen year old
Elizabeth just is too stunned and scared by all the
people to say anything. Again, she had been two months
of extreme trauma. She's just scared. However, Mitchell is so
disruptive and obnoxious that they even they can't stand him
(30:13):
and they kick him out of the party.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
They're like, we like stuff like that here and we
hate you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, like you're the worst person. Get the fuck out.
On another occasion, okay, And so This is the thing too,
because those party attendees say they feel haunted by the
fact that they didn't realize that it was Elizabeth. But
on another occasion, in August of two thousand and two,
two months after Elizabeth's kidnapping, the group goes to the
Salt Lake City Public Library to research places they can
(30:37):
spend the winter, and when they're there, a library patron
actually looks closely out Elizabeth in her veil, and that
person recognized her from just her eyes in the slit
of her veil. Because it's a huge story, it's one
of their own who's gone missing. Immediately he thinks it's her.
That person calls the police. That person's clearly a hero.
(30:58):
The person tells them it's a he was smart at
his library, and a homicide detective comes. Long story short,
he lets them go. He questions them. He claims Mitchell
claims that Elizabeth is his daughter and that she keeps
her face covered for religious reasons, so you can't ask
her to show her face. And while this is happening,
(31:21):
Elizabeth is standing there and she's worried that if she
speaks out, the detective might not believe her and she'll
be punished or killed because of it.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yes, she's been brutalized ritualistically, she's not in a place
where she can be like here's what I'm going to
stand up and be stup. It's like, no, she needs
that cop. That's that kind of thing. And it's like,
this isn't based on anything except for in a situation
like that, letting him dictate terms fucks you every time
(31:49):
because he's absolutely going to do the thing that covers
his us.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So if it's like, no, sorry, you simply can't do
that for our religious reasons, it's like grab that female librariyan,
go into that room and make her take take this off,
like do the thing that's most respectful, but at the
same time get your answer.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's how the J. C. Duggard case was solved is
because someone wouldn't mind their own business. Yeah, it's the
exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
And you know Adrian, my sister's friend, Adrian's mother in law, right,
she didn't mind her own business as a parole officer
who went and checked there and said, sad stuff is
happening there, you need to go rate it, and they
wouldn't listen to her. Exactly, pushbu color Singham, You're a queen,
You're the best. She's the one that used to say
to Noura when Nourra when she was little and said
when she grew up, she wanted to be a cheerleader,
(32:35):
and Pushbo would go, don't be a cheerleader, be a doctor.
I told you that story before. And now we're back
to the Elizabeth Smart case.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So somehow Mitchell is able to walk free after this
interaction this happening also like doubled down to her that
you're stuck here, You're a lost do not say anything,
you know what I mean, Like just reinforced all that
for her. So right around the same time that prime
suspect who Mary Catherine's had said, wasn't the guy that
(33:07):
is of an aneurysm. Is that suspitch Because so many
investigators were convinced that this man had kidnapped and killed Elizabeth.
It deflates a lot of people's hope that Elizabeth will
ever be found. Elizabeth's family, who believed her kidnapper wasn't
that guy and is still at large where the police
will quit looking. By September of two thousand and two, Mitchell,
(33:28):
Barzi and Elizabeth they've relocated to San Diego and they're
camping at a new site in a wetland outside the city.
Elizabeth nicknames this area the fire Swamp because it looks
exactly like the fire swamp from the movie The Princess Bride. Yeah,
she's just a kid. Yeah, all right. So back to
Mary Catherine. It's been four months and she's just constantly
(33:52):
going over in her head what happened, what she saw
and heard the night of her big sister's disappearance in
October of two thousand and two. Ed Smart is tucking
his now ten year old daughter and Mary Catherine into bed,
and she says, I think I know whose voice I
heard that night. It just comes to her, she says,
(34:13):
she thinks it's Immanual, the unhoused man they had hired
for yard work a year earlier. Yeh, she just remembers. Suddenly,
some little piece in her brain clicks together and she
remembers the exact correct person. How like, that's just extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
The whole family remembers him, and they remember meeting him
in downtown Salt Lake. They remember the one day he
came to work on their roof in late two thousand
and one. They remember that he talked a lot about
his ministry work, like how he said he liked to
preach at homeless shelters, and they remember that he was
supposed to come back the next day to finish the
job that he never did, they tell police. The police
(34:53):
are skeptical about this lead. There's a lot of back
and forth between the police and the Smart family about
whether a sketch of a manual should even be least.
This back and forth last into the beginning of two
thousand and three. I know this poor family. Some authorities
in the Salt Lake City Police are just completely convinced
that this earlier now dead suspect was the one who
(35:13):
kidnapped and killed Elizabeth, and they don't believe that ten
year old Mary Catherine could possibly know what she's talking about.
But thankfully, others believe that there could be merit to
releasing a sketch of Emmanuel. However, they also think that
doing so if it is him, could endanger her life
if she is actually still alive. Meanwhile, back in California,
(35:35):
Mitchell has been disappearing from the campsite for days on end,
leaving both Elizabeth and Barze to come close to dying
of dehydration and starvation. Mitchell's also talking about moving again,
this time to like a big city like New York
or Boston, to get lost there. Elizabeth thinks that this happens,
she knows she'll never be found. She decides to try
(35:56):
to manipulate him. She knows him so well. At this point,
it's her best chance of survival is to go back
to Utah where people will recognize her. You know, she
plays it perfectly. She tells Mitchell that she knows God
couldn't possibly speak to her, but she feels strongly it's
God's will that the group go back to Utah. She
just totally manipulates him into it becoming his idea, and
(36:19):
God told him to go back to Utah, so they
return there. Smart Yeah, Okay, So all this debate with
the police about releasing the sketch of a man they
know as a manual goes back and forth for months. Finally,
in February of two thousand and three, this Smart family
essentially goes rogue. They're like, we're not doing this anymore.
This is our daughter's life good without involvement from law enforcement,
(36:41):
they host a press conference releasing the sketch to the media.
Yeahs is so bold, but it's like there are no other.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Leads, and for the people who are saying, hey, we
knew who did it, yeah, like not based on fact
or anything, just this is better for us, right, And
now that guy's dead, so this is over. Well, then
if it's over for you, we get to go row.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
And our daughter is literally saying that's who it was.
You believe her, you know. It's just that has to
be the frustration of having a name and no one
doing anything about it. I mean, I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So insane, but also so great that I'm sure as
kind of LDS members, rule followers, community based, like be respectful,
authority whatever. It's like, well we did that for one
year with you, where.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Has it gotten this? So they released this sketch to
the media, and then John Walsh, none other than John Walsh,
discusses what's going on on Larry King, which was a
huge show at the time, and on John Walsh's own show,
America's Most Wanted, so it gets picked up. John Walsh
had been in touch with the Smart family since the
(37:47):
beginning of the disappearance. He offers support because he'd been
through a similar situation having had his son Adam Walsh,
as we all remember, kidnapped and murdered. I covered the
Adam Walsh case in episode two forty two if you
want to listen to that. So it gets out and
immediately after this, relatives of both Mitchell and Barzi come
(38:09):
forward and are like, that's who that is. They reveal
their identities immediately they know who it is. The FBI
figures out that Mitchell has been arrested for shoplifting while
in California, so they know the group has traveled there,
and those relatives give photos of both Mitchell and Barzi
in their white robes, like exactly how they look to
(38:29):
the press, and Barzi's children go on the news specifically
to talk about how they believe both of them could
be capable of kidnapping Elizabeth. They're like totally on the
side of finding Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Wow, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah. On March twelve, two thousand and three, two separate
couples in Sandy, Utah, about thirty minutes north of Salt Lake,
call either the police or the America's Most Wanted Hotline
to report sightings of Mitchell and Barzi and a young
girl in disguise who they now think is Elizabeth. The
group's been walking along the side of the road. They're
no longer wearing their robes, possibly because those photos had
(39:04):
been circulated. Now they're wearing normal clothes, but Elizabeth is
wearing a gray wig, sunglasses, and a shirt tied around
her head like a handkerchief sort of. So police find
them and stop them this group of people. Mitchell tries
to prevent them to talking to Elizabeth by themselves, but
the officers are now like, we know who this is. Yeah,
(39:25):
like they're pretty certain. They finally separate each of them.
The officer speaking to Elizabeth tries to get to her
to say who she is, for like forty five minutes.
She denies being Elizabeth Smart. I remember that how traumatized
she is.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yes, yeah, from the initial story breaking and they said it,
it felt like it was messaged in the media like
right she did this, or.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Believe she wanted to be there.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Maybe just that tone was so insane.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, he's still in earshot and she's afraid of that
he'll hear her. Elizabeth later says, quote, of course I
wanted to be rescued, but I had spent the past
nine months being very abused at that point, I still
felt very threatened. My captors were still right there. Yeah.
End quote. Finally, the officer interviewing Elizabeth says that he'd
(40:12):
like to give her one more chance to say she is.
He asks, are you Elizabeth smart? She is still afraid
of Mitchell hearing, and so she answers with that quasi
biblical language, saying thou sayest, and the officer takes it
as a yes.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I mean, I hope that the process has changed. Yes
since that time.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Well, like what's your name? What's your name? Is?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Separate room? Yes, put them in a car if you
think this is who these people are, give.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
The victim a victim's advocate instead of just saying who
are you?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Or you know right, or just get the people therewith
away from them in a secure way, like make it
clear that we're like not gonna if you tell us
you'll be over here, Yeah, what's going to be over there?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Is you'll be safe? Yes, totally. Elizabeth's family is, of
course overjoyed to have her back, and it seems like
the entire nation is just like so relieved, like that
just doesn't happen, right, that she comes back alive, that
anyone comes back alive after being kidnapped. Yeah, so it's
just this big celebration that it finally happens. John Walsh says, quote,
we finally got one back. Quote. And even after all
(41:18):
she's been through, Elizabeth recovers. On the day after she
gets home, her family throws her a fifteenth birthday party
to make up for the one she miss. You know,
she doesn't go. She stays. She stays in her room
understandably like just totally overwhelmed. But she does send down
a poster thanking everyone for coming. I'm sure it's just
like too much. Yeah. And then she goes on to
(41:40):
go to high school. She goes to college. She has friends,
she goes on dates, she goes to dances, and generally
she enjoys her life. She goes on her LDS mission trip.
She gets a prime assignment in Paris, as she deserves.
I know, like, don't just please let it be easy
for her.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The elders were like, guess where she is.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Going to go? Yeah, and there she meets the man
who will ultimately become her husband on our trip. Yeah.
Wanda Barzi pleads guilty to kidnapping in two thousand and nine,
and I mean, these people in court were just disruptive,
and it was just the photos that kept coming out
on the news were just so disturbing. She's sentenced to
fifteen years in prison, and she's since been released, but
(42:21):
just last month, she was re arrested for entering a
public park in Salt Lake City, which she's not allowed
to do as a registered sex offender. Oh wow. Though
Barzie issued a teary apology to Elizabeth at her trial,
during this most recent arrest, she said she was commanded
by God to enter the park, and so Elizabeth has
publicly talked about how troubling it is that Barzi is
(42:41):
still justifying her actions in this way. Yeah, it's not
an apology when you are not taking accountability for what
you did. There's no apology there.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And you're kind of back to your old thinking like
the lord. But also, yeah, I know, not long enough. Well,
just I think the one thing I was going to
say that's in the positive, it seems like the authorities
in Salt Lake City are tracking Wanda Barci's actions. So
this second she steps into a public park and she's arrested,
where it's like, I don't know, you don't usually get
(43:11):
that kind of response normally where it feels like they're like,
do not let them rest?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, which been I yeah, okay, that's good. Maybe. Mitchell's
case doesn't go to trial for about eight years due
to numerous delays and competency hearings. He puts on a
big show in court. He sings, calls out to Jesus
and spins, and just like tries to be generally, tries
to be ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. It doesn't work.
(43:38):
In twenty eleven, he's finally found guilty of interstate kidnapping
and unlawful transportation of a minor. He sentenced to life
in prison. Many members of the Smart family are still
deeply connected to their LDS church, but Elizabeth is actually
not the only member of her family who has talked
about being harmed by strict interpretations of church ideologies. As
(43:59):
we talked about the virginity aspect in twenty nineteen, Ed Smart,
Elizabeth's dad probably comes out as gay and he and
lois separate. This is of course painful for the family,
but Elizabeth gives a statement to the press expressing her
unwavering love and support for both her parents and now
does a lot of work with the LGBTQ youth in
(44:19):
Utah and challenges the idea which is still common in
the church, that being gay is something a person can change. Meanwhile,
Elizabeth Smart has become this incredible victims advocate. She is
so admirable. I mean, I can't say enough good things.
She's advocated for the passage of several laws that streamline
investigations into missing children. She and her family also started
(44:43):
the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which advocates for victims of sexual
assault and connects them with resources. I checked out the website.
It's Elizabethsmartfoundation dot org and there's a lot of resources there.
Check that out. Elizabeth continues to advocate against that idea
or even just teach children that their worth is connected
to their perceived virginity. And she speaks all over the world,
(45:06):
and you know, she's incredible. She now dedicates herself to
teaching the children quote, You'll always have value and nothing
can change that. And that is the story of the
kidnapping and survival of Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Smart and thriving of a life Smart. I love that
that is now the current story about her and she
gets to tell it, and she gets to say this
is what happened to me. This is what my life
is like now, Like there's nothing better than that.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Not totally, but also like it's incredible if you can't
do that, if you were a survivor and you can't yet,
that's okay too. There's so many ways to.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Be completely It's been twenty years, so it's like that's
a person who took their time in doing that, built
her life back up by her own standards. It's really
cool and really impressive. That was great.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Sole episode once again picked a story. They gave us everything.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Hell yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
It's another batch of honking Harays, presented by Hyundai.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
That's right, you go first, you want me to?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, okay, this first one says hashtag horay. My partner
just graduated with his PhD in mechanical engineering, joining the
ranks of less than one percent of black men to
earn this degree. Wow, a whole lot of work went
into it. And then there's that emoji of exhaling. Oh yeah,
but I'm thankful to have been along for the ride.
Happy grad season. That's right, it's dad's in grad season
(46:38):
at Phoenix. Harris. Congratulations, that's amazing mechanical engineering and a
small fee.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Come on, yeah, that's great, aky, ray right, Okay, this
is from our email high MFM. I just finished listening
to the harays from Manny and Rachel the Public school
Librarian and Teachers' Union VP, and I just wanted to
write in to back them up. I am a public
school school psychologists, so my main role is assessing and
determining appropriate support for kids with learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities,
(47:07):
emotional and behavioral needs, autism, ADHD, trauma, etc. It just
fills me with hope to hear from other listeners just
buckling down and doing the work in these times where
the government is asking us to reduce or remove our
help in the realm of diversity, equity and inclusion DEI,
which is my world. So my horay is this MFM
(47:27):
community of amazing people doing the work to be the
good in this world when the world is trying to
beat us down. Hashtag resists Love you, Aaron, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Thats epic Aaron, great job and hooray to you. Keep
up the good work. Okay if the subject line if
this email is an unemployed hooray. I'm currently listening to
episode four seventy three and developing film from a solo
backpacking trip through the Rockies in my kitchen sink, Oh,
solo in.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
The Rockies, Solo Rockies kitchen sing.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I get four hours, and then I would dig a hole.
I was recently fired from a job which, ironically I
had drafted a letter of resignation for one week prior.
I guess the feeling was mutual. Now, as I intermittently
agitate my developing tank in and out of the warm bath,
I'm struck with an amusing thought. You know what that means, right,
Because your sister's a photographer. I'm struck with an amusing thought.
(48:23):
For years, I psyched myself out pursuing my real dream
of becoming an adventure photographer, as if the last five
years of sustaining a steady diet of misery at a
job I hated.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Was so much easier Here, I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
As I reflect on that trip in the sixteen miles
I marched up and down a mountain with a thirty
five pound pack, I can't help but think what a
cakewalk that was in comparison.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
So true.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
So maybe now, as week by week I'm filled with
the palpable joy, you too have created by doing what
you love. I can try joy this time too. Wow,
hooray for the universe constantly forcing me to choose courage. Okay,
what's that from me?
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Okay? Okay, And now I get to read hoays from
asday from me in front of a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
That's incredible. Good work.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Kay, that's amazing. Okay, this is email, hooray slash. What
am I even doing? I'm happily spraying out my baby's
cloth diapers because after seven years of planning, changing life habits,
and saving up, my wife and I were finally financial
stable and mentally question mark stable enough to have our
first baby. So hooray for stability and sperm donors. Hey
(49:35):
much love, Gina, she Hersina.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
All the horays are covered in that one. I know.
That's incredible. I thought they were. I thought it was
gonna be more like a I'm gonna be grateful for
spraying out my child's cloth diaper instead of fully propulsed
by it.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
No. Yes, like I should say hooray to this because
this is what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Great one, Okay, this one it says hooray. This is
an email. It says teen leadersh is the future? Are
you ready for this?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I'm a teen, Let me.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Hear I'm a teen inside. I got to take seventeen
students from seventh graders to seniors to a statewide leadership conference.
It was two days filled with workshops by teens about
everything from fundraising to teamwork. My favorites will rip up
your cool card and then in parentheses it says, to
be cringe is to be free. Thank God, lucky for
(50:25):
them and the token emo kid, the token Emo kid
in like title case, and then in parentheses it says
making activities that are fun and safe for everyone. I
was completely filled with joy and peace to see hundreds
of teenagers who were kind, intelligent, and committed to making
the world a better place. I love being a teacher.
(50:47):
And seriously, the kids were all right. That was from Teddy.
My god, the report from Teddy that the kids are okay.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
To those teenagers, help us please teenagers okay. My hooray is.
On April twenty fourth, I got to celebrate one year
since my craniotomy. At twenty three, I unexpectedly had a
grandma seizure after experiencing left sided migraines that grew more frequent.
This seizure led to them finding a gray two arteriovenous
(51:14):
malformation in my brain. AVMs are usually not discovered until
the rupture or cause a stroke. I am a hypochondriac
who always swore I was going to have a stroke
every time I got a migraine. Jokes on everyone because
I was partially correct about Yeah, you were, you were right.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
You're not over dramatic.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
No, I am so lucky that I'm alive and healthy
and suffering no lasting effects from my seizure, surgery, or AVM.
If you are experiencing migraines or other neurological issues, pleasease
at me your my neurological issue if you were. If
you have a problem, please reach out to a medical professional.
It may save your life. I want to shout out
(51:51):
the University Hospital Main Campus neuro ICU nurses. They are
my sweet baby angels and do not get enough credit.
Stay sexy and get your noggins checked.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Paige, p Wow, congratulations on surviving a neural cranial Yeah
that's serious. Good job, that's it. Yes, we did it
all right.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Thank you guys for tuning in, Thank you for listening.
Thank you to Hyndei for presenting these honking horays.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
And stay sexy meme Don't get murdered.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Goodbye, Elvis, Do you want a cookie?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
This has been an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Our editor is Aristotle Oscevedo.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
This episode was mixed by Leona Scuolacci.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page.
While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbyebye
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
That's Georgia Hartstark.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's Karen Kilgarriff. Can I tell you something sad? Yeah,
and I don't want to do with there's a dead
crow in my pool this morning. No, is that a
bad omen for me or for the crow?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, it's definitely for the crow and all.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
The other crows in the neighborhood going to think that
we killed.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
They don't think you're responsible for the pool?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I bet what are they? What are they're flying over
when I was trying to get him out and it
looked like I was drowning.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're afraid the crows are coming for you?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, after everything I've done for crows, I mean, they
got to have some good faith in your participation. But
what did you do with the crow's body?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I left it for Vince to deal with good.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Because then he's to look it up to be like,
what what do crows want you to do in this situation? Right?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Right? I don't know. I have a bonfire, but I
don't know. It was so disturbing, and also like how
did it die? Why is there something more we should
worry about? I'm not going in that pool ever. Again,
so you should probably move.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Sure, I think you should make a bunch of decisions
like that based on this. Don't look anything up, don't.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
It was so sad.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, that's awful.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I was like hoping it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Was just yeah, yeah, that's rough. Also, it's like, I
think the connection of like birds and omens and stuff
is crow of all like and then your favorite. So
it's almost like, right, that's very sad.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Which is worse that? Or when I found the dug
up cremains of a pet in my front yard.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I think that this crow is worse because the crow
is like the cremaines were like a bag of something.
And then you're just like, what, but right.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I don't know yours? Will you vote at home?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Which is work, which is worse than Georgia's, And then
describe how it's worse for Georgia And it's what you
think is going to be happening to her, like a
witch knocks at you're do it?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Did you drown my crow? Oh God? I have had
birds flying to the house, and I always was taught
or heard that birds in the house are very bad.
Luck like that they but moths are good fortil moths
are good. But I mean, but here's the thing. It's
like the way my house is there's windows at the
back in front, and birds think it's a through way totally.
So I've had so many birds in my house that
(02:30):
at this point I'm just like, I can't it's not
proving out to be a real thing.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Okay, that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, but I did it. It's like, be careful about birds.
Be careful about yeah, be kind of birds. Be kind
of birds. Can you throw it a couple of sparkly
things for them to be happy about.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I'll do that, yeah. Or dog treats. They like they
give me sparkly things, right.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Oh, I guess that's true.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Dog treats.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
I thought they like sparkly things.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I'll give them sparkly things. Diamond, diamond, here's my wedding.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm sorry for your friend. The loss of a friend
is very difficult.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay, yeah, okay. So we're going to follow through on
something we've talked.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
About in the past, can you believe it?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
So a couple of weeks ago, I gave Karen a book,
a self help book, and we decided we're going to
do a self help book club. And so we just
want to remind you guys to pick up this book
if you want to follow along. It's called Emotional Agility,
Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life
by Susan David. So while we're on our little vacation,
(03:32):
we're going to both read that probably maybe or yes,
you'll never hear about it again.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
We're going to do it because people want a book
club of some kind and we can at least approach it.
And I did like your original idea, which is read
it and then you say what you learned, and I'll
say what I learned.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, and the next time you pick one.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, exactly, okay, and people can write in. But also,
who recommended that book to you first? Your therapist?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
No, no, it was on one of those like ten
books That'll change your life?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Oh lists?
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah okay, yeah, so are you ready to have your
life change?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I'm ready and willing. I need it. Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Then I'm excited about this because I'm interested in reading
this book, but I just don't make time for reading.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, so it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Will make me do that. Yeah, Like you have to
take that book with me on my break and then
get through it and treated us homework.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
If you don't do it, a crow will die.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No, no, we will drown up, drown one crow for
every You're just like outside drinking your coffee like it's
Siday's gonna be a great deal.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Anything else, I.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Don't think so. Should we just talk about our network?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, let's talk about our podcast network called My Favorite
Nope call exactly right.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Media. Oh well, this is kind of breaking news about
the fan cults. We basically we're taking new members because
we're now offering ad free audio, which people have been
asking us for for years and years. We've been at
different companies that offer it here and there, whatever, but
we now offered ourselves. You just have to join the
(05:03):
fan cults.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yep, it's not a big deal. Just do it. And
this is your last chance. This is your last warning
to join the fan cult right now at a discounted price.
So now through Friday, June thirteenth, you can get the
old price of just three point thirty three a month
for the year in a cult tier and eight dollars
a month for the Call your Dad tier. So go
to fancult dot supercast dot com to join.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, eight dollars a month or there's the yearly is
actually less than eight dollars a month would add up
to eighty dollars.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, it's a deal all around.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Eight times twelve is eighty.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
No, I think it's cheaper. I don't know. Ninety six, okay,
so it's yeah, so there's a discount all all around.
You want to pay for the year, you'll get into
a bigger discount.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
That's right. We're trying to point out that we're passing
the savings along to you. I'm crazy, Larry.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I've got to get rid.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Of these teeths. I can't do basic multiplication. I can't
tell you how much twelve times eight is. That's too bad.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Here be guesse what we can tell you about merch
that's right, because we have this cute pin to show you.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
That's right, this cute pin that actually sold out almost
immediately when we put it out last time. So look
at that. Look at the action on that pin. You
can figure out what mood you're in. It's the MFM
mood pin. And what are those emotions?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's are you stay out at the forest? Are you
stay sexy? Don't get murdered? Are you? Here's the thing?
Fuck everyone? Or are you? This is terrible. Keep going.
You just spin this little hand that has an MFM
on it and it tells you what you are.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
And that's like, if you want to only communicate through
these pins, we support you entirely and just throw it
right over to go fuck yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I love it. That's very cute.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So go to exactly rightstore dot com to order those pins.
Get yours now before they're all sold out again.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
We'll love them. They're going to sell out. You've got
the home shopping network thing down.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You know what, merch and I love getting through a
solo episode.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, you don't have to do jec shit.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
You know it's the best.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Okay, I now it's worktime for me.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, do you need anything from me?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
No, I think I'm okay, just weird steely stare, yeah,
definitely like stir me down.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Okay, it makes me really.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Uncomfortable, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Or I'm going to do this thing this second. You
look up, I'm gonna look down. Just three your papers
or something like that, or just a lot of under audio.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, get serious. This is a serious one. Yeah. It's
a heavy hitter.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I didn't want to do it until I read the
autobiography about it, and I did so. Today's story is
about a kidnapping in June of two thousand and two
in Salt Lake City. You can only mean one thing.
This is a kidnapping and survival story of Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Smart, and it's her version of it.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, it's called my story. I read it. It's incredible, brilliant,
it's just like so moving. And then there's also a
docu series that she's in called Autobiography Elizabeth Smart. And
then the rest of their sources can be found in
the show notes. Here we are. It's June sixth two
thousand and two. Do you know this one well or not? Well?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I mean I know it enough to like, if
you ask me, I think I would pass a test.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
It's the one with that. But you don't know like
the details.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yes, but here's one detail I do remember, kind of
separate is our first show in Salt Lake City. Member
the audience member that gave us the picture where it
was Elizabeth Smart at the party.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, I'm going to get to that. It's so fucking crazy.
It's so crazy. And then also, like I always I
used to think of the J. C. Duggard story as well,
which I also read her autobiography, so they're very different,
although they're similar in a lot of ways as well.
So it's June sixth, two thousand and two. It's a warm,
quiet night in the Federal Heights neighborhood of Salt Lake City, Utah. Obviously,
(08:52):
Federal Heights sits at the foothills of the Wassatch Mountains,
perched above the downtown area. So there's a out of like,
you know, mountainous terrain and how beautiful nature is in Utah. Incredible.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Remember that view out that hotel we got to stay
at untour or not? Yes, yes, the mountains and then
the fog world do no?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know what I remember is that they had uh tea.
I remember the food.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, we just had an or maybe it was just
my room. Maybe you were on the other side. I
faced the mountain range and then watched a storm front
come over the mountain range and change the entire view
and then go away, and I was like, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
I love whether it's just we don't have it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Here, Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So this is where the Smart family lives. Ed and
Lois Smart have six children, four boys and two girls.
Elizabeth is the second oldest child and the oldest girl,
the big sister. She's fourteen years old, and she's asleep
in the room she shares with her nine year old
sister Mary Catherine. At about two in the morning, Elizabeth
(09:58):
opens her eyes to what seems like like a nightmare,
but when a few minutes she realizes it's real. It's
a man standing in their bedroom, dressed all in black.
And then he's standing over her and she feels something
cold and sharp against her neck and he says, quote,
I have a knife to your throat. Don't make a sound,
get out of bed, or I'll kill you and your family.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
This is the rarest kind of a true crime, right,
this is the stranger abduction is so rare, and it's
just so creepy, and it's like everyone's worst nightmare.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
And then imagine you're a kid and you're in a
house of eight people, including sharing a room with your
little sister. Yep, it's just unfathomable.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
It's unfathomable, and it's similar to polyclasses taken out of
a place where everyone is feels safe.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, totally, so, Elizabeth says, quote, it really seemed like
either do what he says, and go with him, or
have your neck cut open and die. End quote. The
man makes Elizabeth get out of bed, he makes her
get her sneakers. She asked him why he's doing this,
and he says, quote, I'm taking you hostage for ransom.
End quote. So, as she's being walked through the hallway
(11:08):
of her home, Elizabeth silently prays that her parents will
wake up and come rescue her, but she also worries
that the man has already killed her family. She doesn't know,
right that's definitely a possibility. So she only knows for
sure that her little sister, who she shares a room with,
is still alive, and she wants to keep it that way,
and so she complies. The house remains silent, and the
(11:28):
man walks Elizabeth out the slide and glass door to
the backyard. Elizabeth's house is at the base of a mountain.
There's one more residential street behind the house, and after
that there's just a trail that goes uphill. This story
has so many moments of close calls of her being
rescued that it's so frustrating, and this immediately is one
(11:49):
of them. Because the cop car drives and doesn't see
anything nightmare. Yeah. So the man leads her uphill with
the knife at her back. She tries on multiple occasions
to bargain with him, saying that her parents will pay
this ransom that he said he's after and that they
won't press charges. She gets to a point where she
tells him that if his plan is to rape and
kill her, he should just do it here right there,
(12:11):
because she wants her parents to be able to find
her body. I know, Elizabeth says that. He then smiles,
which is a look that chills her to the bone,
and he says, quote, I'm not going to rape and
kill you yet end quote.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I think most of us have seen pictures of this man,
and it is like so sinister to think of it
this way, where he's like truly looks like a boogeyman.
He's like confusing looking and very like almost like ancient
looking and creepy.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah, like someone that if you saw on the street,
you would avoid as a woman, as a woman alone
on the street, you would not be comfortable walking past
this person.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So that guy smiling in the woods of like and
saying that sentence, yeah, like man, yeah, horrifying.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It is so at daybreak as they're still walking. Elizabeth
gets a better look at her captor and she realizes
that she recognizes him. He's a man who did yard
work at her her family's house for one day. Months earlier.
He had introduced himself as Immanuel, and when she had
met him, he had been clean shaven, and now he
has a long, scraggly beard, but she can tell it's
(13:13):
definitely him. The family had first met Emmanuel on a
street corner in downtown Salt Lake City in the fall
of two thousand and one, about eight months prior. The
kids in Lois The mom had been back to school
shopping and they saw him panhandling, and they are a
charitable family, so the boys, the smart boys, asked their
mom if there was any work that they could give
(13:34):
him around the house, and she gives him a five
dollar bill and says that you know there is work
for you to do if you around the house for money,
if you can come. Elizabeth later writes quote, what I
didn't know but would later learn was that he had
been watching me very carefully as we walked toward him.
He had taken the opportunity to study me further. As
(13:54):
my mom searched through her purse. He remembered everything about me,
the clothes I was wearing, blonde hair, the way I
looked up at my mother, the color of my eyes,
And though he was careful not to show it, he
decided that moment that I was the one like He
was already looking to pray on someone. When the Smart
family does wind up hiring Emmanuel to rake leaves and
repair the roof at their house, he learns where she
(14:17):
lives that way, and he spends the next couple of
months devising his plan to kidnap Elizabeth. Emmanuel's actual name
is Brian David Mitchell, and at this point he's about
forty nine years old. Elizabeth makes it clear in her
book that everything she's learned about him has been against
her will, so we won't talk too much about him,
(14:37):
but she briefly outlines how he has a history of
substance abuse and as a teenager he had been charged
for exposing himself to a younger child. He had been
married three times and had thirteen children and step children Jesus,
and among those children were other charges of abuse. So
this is just a bad, bad man. Back to that morning,
(14:57):
when they get to the top of the mountain. They
walk into a densely wooded area and then Elizabeth sees
a campsite. Mitchell calls out a name, it's Hepziba. Then
Elizabeth hears a woman's voice yelling his name Emmanuel in return,
and then an eerie looking woman steps out of the tent.
I always think of the Princess Bride when yeah, a witch. Yeah,
(15:22):
she has messy, stringy, long gray hair, and she's wearing
a set of white robes. Like how chilling for out
in the child to see.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
This is like a grim's fairy tale gone totally wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
And then yeah, and then also seeing a woman, there's
like a part of you where it's like, oh, maybe
I'm saved because it's not just this creepy man with yes,
but right immediately realizing it's.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Not the case, she's like crawling out of a well
basically of just like this is as scary as it
can be totally.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
This woman is Wanda Barzie. She's in her late fifties
and she's Mitchell's third wife. Barsie had also been previously
married has six children, but she relinquished her parental rights
when she met and married Mitchell, so as Mitchell and
Elizabeth enter the campsite, Barzie envelops Elizabeth in a hug
that feels more menacing than comforting. So one thing that
(16:14):
neither Elizabeth nor her captors realize is that Elizabeth's little sister,
nine year old Mary Catherine, had actually woken up and
seen almost the whole kidnapping. I didn't know that. Yeah,
I'm That's what I'm telling you. I know. Elizabeth and
Mary Catherine are very close. Every night Elizabeth reads out
loud from a chapter book to her little sister. On
(16:35):
the night of the kidnapping, they had been in the
middle of Ella enchanted. Right after Elizabeth is taken out
of her room, she attempts to go wake up her parents,
but she gets freaked out thinking that Elizabeth and her
captor are still there, so she runs back to her
room and hides into the covers and stays there for
about two hours until she can get the courage to
(16:56):
go wake up her parents.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
The fact that she could go and do it at
all is unbelievable. That is the scariest thing. A man
with a fucking knife in your room.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah, takes your sister.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
The idea that she wasn't just stuck there till the
morning is She's incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
When she gets the nerve away her parents and tells
them Elizabeth has been taken. The three of them go
downstairs together and when Lois turns on the lights, she
immediately sees an open kitchen window and that the screen
at the window had been sliced open, and she starts
screaming yeah. Unfortunately, the situation unfolds similarly to in the
(17:32):
John Maney Ramsay case and its mistakes that are immediately made.
Ed calls the police, but he also calls lots of
friends and family members, obviously to come help look for
his daughter Elizabeth. But the inexperienced graveyard shift police officers
that first show up don't lock down the house, and
pretty quickly every last inch of it has been completely trampled.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Now, I could totally be wrong. I have no idea.
It seems to me you want the experienced people on
the night shift. It's nighttime shift.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Can we have the experienced people on the all shifts?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Good point? But I guess the answer is no. So
if we had to split it, yeah, can't the inexperienced
people do stuff during the.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Day, Yeah, bad things happen at night.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's when the evils come out. I don't know, but
I hear you someone's like and the actual fact of
that isn't for is the time, it's all bad. It's
all bad.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
By the time an experienced detective gets there at six am.
He says that Elizabeth's room and the rest of the
house is quote contaminated beyond all hope. So all members
of the Smart family are questioned individually by police, of course,
and Mary Catherine recounts what she saw. She says she
believes she heard Elizabeth Captor say the word ransom, which
(18:44):
she's right he did say, although he was lying. Ed
Smart's brother, the dad's brother, works for the Desiret News,
which is one of the main newspapers in Utah. So
later that day, the Smarts appear before the media and
Ed's brother gets Elizabeth's photo out and storied out to
all the national news outlets, and it's a huge story
(19:06):
immediately on cable news. By that evening. You know, we
have to say it's a beautiful blonde girl who goes
missing from a religious family.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So in the mid two thousands, right, right, two.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Thousand and two. Meanwhile we're back at this campsite and
the woman Elizabeth knows now as hetz Ofba washes Elizabeth's
feet almost like a ritual thing, and then forces Elizabeth
to change out of her red pajamas into a set
of white robes similar to what she's wearing. And this
it's so hard to read her account of this, but
(19:39):
it's incredible that she was able to express herself. Elizabeth
is left alone in the tent and Emmanuel comes back in.
He's now wearing a similar set of robes, and he
performs what he tells Elizabeth is a marriage ceremony, and
afterwards he rapes her, just immediately after kidnapping her.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Right the only reason he did it, I mean, like
the idea that he has roped in some woman to
somehow virtualize that is disgusting and.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Thinking about God somehow, yes, or just the most evil
fucking thing.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Jesus is the one who washed people's feet. You can
get up because no one's buying that from you. Man.
Exactly so gross.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And so Elizabeth is a member of the LDS Church,
of course, and writes about how her faith helped her
survive her terrible ordeal. But in the years since her kidnapping,
she's also become a vocal critic of the purity culture
in which she was raised. It's really interesting because she
had grown up being told that her worth was tied
(20:40):
to her virginity. It was taken away from her forcefully,
and then she immediately felt worthless, and she doesn't think
that that's fair. After she was raped, she says that
she struggled with a sense of worthlessness that immediately followed,
and it made her almost reluctant to seek help during
(21:00):
different points in her captivity, like she didn't feel worth
saving anymore. Yeah, she says, she thought, quote why would
it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even
make a difference if you are rescued, your life still
has no value end quote.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's weird that that's the message coming from a religion.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, it just is.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So it just isn't because who does that actually affect.
They're not saying that the man right has no value,
it's the woman always totally.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
On many occasions, Elizabeth has criticized the abstinence only education
she was given, which, when she was experiencing the worst
suffering of her life, made her think of herself as
quote a chewed up piece of gum. So she's finding
against that, which is incredible.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
It's great.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
So Mitchell puts a wire cable around Elizabeth's ankle and
he then attaches that to a tree, so there's no
opportunity for her to try to run away.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Sorry, really quick. But that just that linking all of
that together. This is why I'm so excited that she
wrote an autobiography because that idea of I never thought
about that of the Purity culture, because there was the
time where before she was actually found, where they took
film of her walking down the street with them. It's like,
why would she do this? And it's like instead of
actually finding out why, it was just people wanting to scream,
(22:14):
like she must have wanted to be with her or something,
instead of like track it to why she would be
feeling that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I mean, she was already indoctrinated in this religious practice,
so ideology and believe this thing about herself.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
There's the answers right there.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, and the answer is, you know, no one knows
how they'll react in a situation that's so traumatic, So
shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, okay, shut up. So no more question was so Karen?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Okay, So at the bottom of the mountain, a massive
search effort mobilizes to look for Elizabeth. Around ten thousand
volunteers show up to help. It's a huge story. On
the third day of Elizabeth's disappearance, after not sleeping ed,
her father suffers a breakdown and is briefly hospitalized, but
the search efforts continue. On that same day, while at
the campsite, Elizabeth actually hears her name called out by searchers.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
She is elated, thinking she's going to be rescued, but
she's sitting right in between Mitchell and Barzi at the campsite.
Mitchell picks up a knife and says he'll kill her
if she makes any noise, and to elizabeth horror, the
voice is fade and she doesn't ever hear anyone searching
for her again, except she does hear helicopters flying right
above the campsite, which is like it's shaking the tent.
(23:32):
It's so close, but it's hidden by a dense crop
cop overgrowth of trees. Thank you, o crop. Yeah, no, cops,
what is it? I've been reading too many fucking Scottish books.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Cops, Cops, the TV show no one are my favorites.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Cops of trees, Yes, thank you I've literally been reading
Irish and Scottish books lately, and how do you spell
cops corps? Right?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Copsc that's a cop psc. I literally never heard that
word before. Okay, amazing.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I think I only read it, which is why I
didn't know how to.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
That's what happens to readers.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Okay. So over the coming weeks of Smart Family, they
come under scrutiny at first, but soon the focus falls
on a man who did some construction work around the
Smart house also, but it's a different man completely. This
man had a criminal history and possibly had stolen from
the Smart swell working on their house. Like he's a
good looking suspect for this crime. He's also accused of
(24:34):
breaking and entering and stealing in other homes around the neighborhood.
But Mary Catherine, Elizabeth's little sister, tells her parents she
is positive that he is not the person she saw
in her room the night of Elizabeth's disappearance. But of
course she's nine, and they're like, uh huh, shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You know, I want Mary Catherine's autobiography now, seriously, I mean,
a nine year old that has to fight.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
For her sister, why do you hear what shesa.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
I'm definitely crying during the safe.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Then, about six weeks after Elizabeth's kidnapping, while this other
dude is in custody being questioned, Mitchell tells Elizabeth that
he's going to kidnap Elizabeth's cousin. Elizabeth had casually brought
up her cousin in a previous conversation, which is how
Mitchell had come up with the idea. So Elizabeth's cousin,
who is around the same age as Elizabeth, named Olivia.
(25:21):
Fifty days after Elizabeth's abduction, the Right family basically they
awakened to someone trying to climb through a window in
their house cut the screen, just like at Elizabeth's house,
but Elizabeth's cousin, Olivia, had actually been sleeping on the
floor of her parents' bedroom at the time. Because everyone
is so freaked.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Out, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
However, her sister would have been asleep in the bedroom
if Mitchell had made it in, but he didn't. They
woke up and chased him off. So the guy that
they think did it is in custody when that happens, right,
so like, maybe it's not him. No, police are not
convinced at the time that they have the wrong guy.
But at the same time, you can't be like, that's
(26:01):
great that they kept you know what I mean, Like
it could have been a copycat. We're talking shit because
now we know that it's kindsight, but he's still a
suspect for a reason.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Right, And I mean it's that idea of like, if
you have a person that's checking seven of the ten boxes,
you can't just be like, yeah, that's right, something else
happened similar.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Right, we would have been talking shit on that if
that was the case. Right. So, but the Smart family,
they totally believe it means the kidnapper is still at large.
And since he knew about Olivia, the cousin like specifically
that that might mean that Elizabeth is still alive, got
it because she talked about her. She's just gonna give
some hope. Yeah. So back at the campsite, Elizabeth is
sexually abused nearly every day. Mitchell calls Elizabeth by a
(26:44):
different name. Shear's a shob is her name some biblical
It's an obscure Old Testament reference. He forces her to
drink alcohol, which is against her religion. He also makes
her talk in a biblical way. Lots of these and
thousand cow.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Treaes cops of trees? Will you please say cops of
trees instead of forest? She's just like dude.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Elizabe spends a total of six weeks tied to that
tree at the campsite before Mitchell and Barzi decide to
start making regular trips down into Salt Lake City as
a group.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
So she just has to for almost two months just
camp with these psychos and stay alive.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, and get sexually assaulted and raped on the daily.
That's such a long time. It's horrible, Like this is
just so brazen. They take her with them. They all
wear there are white robes, but Barzi and Elizabeth cover
their hair and faces with white veils so only their
eyes can be seen. They look like some kind of
(27:50):
religious fundamentalists, which stands out even in Salt Lake City
where everyone is and Elizabeth says that people would just
quickly look away uncomfortably whenever they passed. On one occasion,
they're at a grocery store and the cashier invites them
to a house party, and they go. It's a house
that regularly hosts events for the Salt Lake City counterculture scene,
(28:11):
which is like kind of punk you know, and there's
usually a performance art element to these events. So they
see these people who obviously have these certain beliefs and like, hey,
come to our party. These guys would be cool to
talk to this guy because the women don't speak, so
they invite him, and they are photographs of them at
the party, Like you said, and like hindsight, of course,
(28:34):
you look at the photo. It's like a close up
and it's so clearly her to us, and it's just
so heartbreaking and hard to look at, and you can't
help but be like if I were there, I would
have done this then that, but you wouldn't have, you know,
And like there's a picture of him talking to a girl.
She's like, call tat it up. She looks like a
murdering now, she looks very cool. She's probably like has
(28:55):
her sensors up. And I'm sure she's just like I
should have known, because they do later talk about feeling
guilty that they didn't figure it out.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Of course, but it's like, first of all, two thousand
and two is a time of great toxicity in our
culture in general, and so that idea of like I
have an inkling of something, and I'm worried about it,
but everyone stay quiet with everything because there was no
kind of here's a pattern. If you call the cops
or if you're going to try to draw attention to
(29:25):
something as a woman by yourself, here's how it's going
to go. Yeah, everyone's going to say you're crazy and
weird and like not go with you. I think so
many women had experience that, where as twenty twenty five
girls you literally have to like look up and give
somebody a look and people will be like, hey, girl,
what's up. You're coming with us?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Like the hand gestures down.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
It's changed profoundly, whereas before it was like you don't
want to step out of Lyne even at like a
punk party totally.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
And on this occasion at the party, fourteen year old
Elizabeth just is too stunned and scared by all the
people to say anything. Again, she had been two months
of extreme trauma. She's just scared. However, Mitchell is so
disruptive and obnoxious that they even they can't stand him
(30:13):
and they kick him out of the party.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
They're like, we like stuff like that here and we
hate you.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, like you're the worst person. Get the fuck out.
On another occasion, okay, And so This is the thing too,
because those party attendees say they feel haunted by the
fact that they didn't realize that it was Elizabeth. But
on another occasion, in August of two thousand and two,
two months after Elizabeth's kidnapping, the group goes to the
Salt Lake City Public Library to research places they can
(30:37):
spend the winter, and when they're there, a library patron
actually looks closely out Elizabeth in her veil, and that
person recognized her from just her eyes in the slit
of her veil. Because it's a huge story, it's one
of their own who's gone missing. Immediately he thinks it's her.
That person calls the police. That person's clearly a hero.
(30:58):
The person tells them it's a he was smart at
his library, and a homicide detective comes. Long story short,
he lets them go. He questions them. He claims Mitchell
claims that Elizabeth is his daughter and that she keeps
her face covered for religious reasons, so you can't ask
her to show her face. And while this is happening,
(31:21):
Elizabeth is standing there and she's worried that if she
speaks out, the detective might not believe her and she'll
be punished or killed because of it.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yes, she's been brutalized ritualistically, she's not in a place
where she can be like here's what I'm going to
stand up and be stup. It's like, no, she needs
that cop. That's that kind of thing. And it's like,
this isn't based on anything except for in a situation
like that, letting him dictate terms fucks you every time
(31:49):
because he's absolutely going to do the thing that covers
his us.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
So if it's like, no, sorry, you simply can't do
that for our religious reasons, it's like grab that female librariyan,
go into that room and make her take take this off,
like do the thing that's most respectful, but at the
same time get your answer.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's how the J. C. Duggard case was solved is
because someone wouldn't mind their own business. Yeah, it's the
exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
And you know Adrian, my sister's friend, Adrian's mother in law, right,
she didn't mind her own business as a parole officer
who went and checked there and said, sad stuff is
happening there, you need to go rate it, and they
wouldn't listen to her. Exactly, pushbu color Singham, You're a queen,
You're the best. She's the one that used to say
to Noura when Nourra when she was little and said
when she grew up, she wanted to be a cheerleader,
(32:35):
and Pushbo would go, don't be a cheerleader, be a doctor.
I told you that story before. And now we're back
to the Elizabeth Smart case.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So somehow Mitchell is able to walk free after this
interaction this happening also like doubled down to her that
you're stuck here, You're a lost do not say anything,
you know what I mean, Like just reinforced all that
for her. So right around the same time that prime
suspect who Mary Catherine's had said, wasn't the guy that
(33:07):
is of an aneurysm. Is that suspitch Because so many
investigators were convinced that this man had kidnapped and killed Elizabeth.
It deflates a lot of people's hope that Elizabeth will
ever be found. Elizabeth's family, who believed her kidnapper wasn't
that guy and is still at large where the police
will quit looking. By September of two thousand and two, Mitchell,
(33:28):
Barzi and Elizabeth they've relocated to San Diego and they're
camping at a new site in a wetland outside the city.
Elizabeth nicknames this area the fire Swamp because it looks
exactly like the fire swamp from the movie The Princess Bride. Yeah,
she's just a kid. Yeah, all right. So back to
Mary Catherine. It's been four months and she's just constantly
(33:52):
going over in her head what happened, what she saw
and heard the night of her big sister's disappearance in
October of two thousand and two. Ed Smart is tucking
his now ten year old daughter and Mary Catherine into bed,
and she says, I think I know whose voice I
heard that night. It just comes to her, she says,
(34:13):
she thinks it's Immanual, the unhoused man they had hired
for yard work a year earlier. Yeh, she just remembers. Suddenly,
some little piece in her brain clicks together and she
remembers the exact correct person. How like, that's just extraordinary.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
The whole family remembers him, and they remember meeting him
in downtown Salt Lake. They remember the one day he
came to work on their roof in late two thousand
and one. They remember that he talked a lot about
his ministry work, like how he said he liked to
preach at homeless shelters, and they remember that he was
supposed to come back the next day to finish the
job that he never did, they tell police. The police
(34:53):
are skeptical about this lead. There's a lot of back
and forth between the police and the Smart family about
whether a sketch of a manual should even be least.
This back and forth last into the beginning of two
thousand and three. I know this poor family. Some authorities
in the Salt Lake City Police are just completely convinced
that this earlier now dead suspect was the one who
(35:13):
kidnapped and killed Elizabeth, and they don't believe that ten
year old Mary Catherine could possibly know what she's talking about.
But thankfully, others believe that there could be merit to
releasing a sketch of Emmanuel. However, they also think that
doing so if it is him, could endanger her life
if she is actually still alive. Meanwhile, back in California,
(35:35):
Mitchell has been disappearing from the campsite for days on end,
leaving both Elizabeth and Barze to come close to dying
of dehydration and starvation. Mitchell's also talking about moving again,
this time to like a big city like New York
or Boston, to get lost there. Elizabeth thinks that this happens,
she knows she'll never be found. She decides to try
(35:56):
to manipulate him. She knows him so well. At this point,
it's her best chance of survival is to go back
to Utah where people will recognize her. You know, she
plays it perfectly. She tells Mitchell that she knows God
couldn't possibly speak to her, but she feels strongly it's
God's will that the group go back to Utah. She
just totally manipulates him into it becoming his idea, and
(36:19):
God told him to go back to Utah, so they
return there. Smart Yeah, Okay, So all this debate with
the police about releasing the sketch of a man they
know as a manual goes back and forth for months. Finally,
in February of two thousand and three, this Smart family
essentially goes rogue. They're like, we're not doing this anymore.
This is our daughter's life good without involvement from law enforcement,
(36:41):
they host a press conference releasing the sketch to the media.
Yeahs is so bold, but it's like there are no other.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Leads, and for the people who are saying, hey, we
knew who did it, yeah, like not based on fact
or anything, just this is better for us, right, And
now that guy's dead, so this is over. Well, then
if it's over for you, we get to go row.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
And our daughter is literally saying that's who it was.
You believe her, you know. It's just that has to
be the frustration of having a name and no one
doing anything about it. I mean, I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
So insane, but also so great that I'm sure as
kind of LDS members, rule followers, community based, like be respectful,
authority whatever. It's like, well we did that for one
year with you, where.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Has it gotten this? So they released this sketch to
the media, and then John Walsh, none other than John Walsh,
discusses what's going on on Larry King, which was a
huge show at the time, and on John Walsh's own show,
America's Most Wanted, so it gets picked up. John Walsh
had been in touch with the Smart family since the
(37:47):
beginning of the disappearance. He offers support because he'd been
through a similar situation having had his son Adam Walsh,
as we all remember, kidnapped and murdered. I covered the
Adam Walsh case in episode two forty two if you
want to listen to that. So it gets out and
immediately after this, relatives of both Mitchell and Barzi come
(38:09):
forward and are like, that's who that is. They reveal
their identities immediately they know who it is. The FBI
figures out that Mitchell has been arrested for shoplifting while
in California, so they know the group has traveled there,
and those relatives give photos of both Mitchell and Barzi
in their white robes, like exactly how they look to
(38:29):
the press, and Barzi's children go on the news specifically
to talk about how they believe both of them could
be capable of kidnapping Elizabeth. They're like totally on the
side of finding Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Wow, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Yeah. On March twelve, two thousand and three, two separate
couples in Sandy, Utah, about thirty minutes north of Salt Lake,
call either the police or the America's Most Wanted Hotline
to report sightings of Mitchell and Barzi and a young
girl in disguise who they now think is Elizabeth. The
group's been walking along the side of the road. They're
no longer wearing their robes, possibly because those photos had
(39:04):
been circulated. Now they're wearing normal clothes, but Elizabeth is
wearing a gray wig, sunglasses, and a shirt tied around
her head like a handkerchief sort of. So police find
them and stop them this group of people. Mitchell tries
to prevent them to talking to Elizabeth by themselves, but
the officers are now like, we know who this is. Yeah,
(39:25):
like they're pretty certain. They finally separate each of them.
The officer speaking to Elizabeth tries to get to her
to say who she is, for like forty five minutes.
She denies being Elizabeth Smart. I remember that how traumatized
she is.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yes, yeah, from the initial story breaking and they said it,
it felt like it was messaged in the media like
right she did this, or.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Believe she wanted to be there.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Maybe just that tone was so insane.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, he's still in earshot and she's afraid of that
he'll hear her. Elizabeth later says, quote, of course I
wanted to be rescued, but I had spent the past
nine months being very abused at that point, I still
felt very threatened. My captors were still right there. Yeah.
End quote. Finally, the officer interviewing Elizabeth says that he'd
(40:12):
like to give her one more chance to say she is.
He asks, are you Elizabeth smart? She is still afraid
of Mitchell hearing, and so she answers with that quasi
biblical language, saying thou sayest, and the officer takes it
as a yes.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I mean, I hope that the process has changed. Yes
since that time.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Well, like what's your name? What's your name? Is?
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Separate room? Yes, put them in a car if you
think this is who these people are, give.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
The victim a victim's advocate instead of just saying who
are you?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Or you know right, or just get the people therewith
away from them in a secure way, like make it
clear that we're like not gonna if you tell us
you'll be over here, Yeah, what's going to be over there?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Is you'll be safe? Yes, totally. Elizabeth's family is, of
course overjoyed to have her back, and it seems like
the entire nation is just like so relieved, like that
just doesn't happen, right, that she comes back alive, that
anyone comes back alive after being kidnapped. Yeah, so it's
just this big celebration that it finally happens. John Walsh says, quote,
we finally got one back. Quote. And even after all
(41:18):
she's been through, Elizabeth recovers. On the day after she
gets home, her family throws her a fifteenth birthday party
to make up for the one she miss. You know,
she doesn't go. She stays. She stays in her room
understandably like just totally overwhelmed. But she does send down
a poster thanking everyone for coming. I'm sure it's just
like too much. Yeah. And then she goes on to
(41:40):
go to high school. She goes to college. She has friends,
she goes on dates, she goes to dances, and generally
she enjoys her life. She goes on her LDS mission trip.
She gets a prime assignment in Paris, as she deserves.
I know, like, don't just please let it be easy
for her.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
The elders were like, guess where she is.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Going to go? Yeah, and there she meets the man
who will ultimately become her husband on our trip. Yeah.
Wanda Barzi pleads guilty to kidnapping in two thousand and nine,
and I mean, these people in court were just disruptive,
and it was just the photos that kept coming out
on the news were just so disturbing. She's sentenced to
fifteen years in prison, and she's since been released, but
(42:21):
just last month, she was re arrested for entering a
public park in Salt Lake City, which she's not allowed
to do as a registered sex offender. Oh wow. Though
Barzie issued a teary apology to Elizabeth at her trial,
during this most recent arrest, she said she was commanded
by God to enter the park, and so Elizabeth has
publicly talked about how troubling it is that Barzi is
(42:41):
still justifying her actions in this way. Yeah, it's not
an apology when you are not taking accountability for what
you did. There's no apology there.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
And you're kind of back to your old thinking like
the lord. But also, yeah, I know, not long enough. Well,
just I think the one thing I was going to
say that's in the positive, it seems like the authorities
in Salt Lake City are tracking Wanda Barci's actions. So
this second she steps into a public park and she's arrested,
where it's like, I don't know, you don't usually get
(43:11):
that kind of response normally where it feels like they're like,
do not let them rest?
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, which been I yeah, okay, that's good. Maybe. Mitchell's
case doesn't go to trial for about eight years due
to numerous delays and competency hearings. He puts on a
big show in court. He sings, calls out to Jesus
and spins, and just like tries to be generally, tries
to be ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. It doesn't work.
(43:38):
In twenty eleven, he's finally found guilty of interstate kidnapping
and unlawful transportation of a minor. He sentenced to life
in prison. Many members of the Smart family are still
deeply connected to their LDS church, but Elizabeth is actually
not the only member of her family who has talked
about being harmed by strict interpretations of church ideologies. As
(43:59):
we talked about the virginity aspect in twenty nineteen, Ed Smart,
Elizabeth's dad probably comes out as gay and he and
lois separate. This is of course painful for the family,
but Elizabeth gives a statement to the press expressing her
unwavering love and support for both her parents and now
does a lot of work with the LGBTQ youth in
(44:19):
Utah and challenges the idea which is still common in
the church, that being gay is something a person can change. Meanwhile,
Elizabeth Smart has become this incredible victims advocate. She is
so admirable. I mean, I can't say enough good things.
She's advocated for the passage of several laws that streamline
investigations into missing children. She and her family also started
(44:43):
the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which advocates for victims of sexual
assault and connects them with resources. I checked out the website.
It's Elizabethsmartfoundation dot org and there's a lot of resources there.
Check that out. Elizabeth continues to advocate against that idea
or even just teach children that their worth is connected
to their perceived virginity. And she speaks all over the world,
(45:06):
and you know, she's incredible. She now dedicates herself to
teaching the children quote, You'll always have value and nothing
can change that. And that is the story of the
kidnapping and survival of Elizabeth.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
Smart and thriving of a life Smart. I love that
that is now the current story about her and she
gets to tell it, and she gets to say this
is what happened to me. This is what my life
is like now, Like there's nothing better than that.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Not totally, but also like it's incredible if you can't
do that, if you were a survivor and you can't yet,
that's okay too. There's so many ways to.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Be completely It's been twenty years, so it's like that's
a person who took their time in doing that, built
her life back up by her own standards. It's really
cool and really impressive. That was great.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Sole episode once again picked a story. They gave us everything.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Hell yeah, all right.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
It's another batch of honking Harays, presented by Hyundai.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
That's right, you go first, you want me to?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, okay, this first one says hashtag horay. My partner
just graduated with his PhD in mechanical engineering, joining the
ranks of less than one percent of black men to
earn this degree. Wow, a whole lot of work went
into it. And then there's that emoji of exhaling. Oh yeah,
but I'm thankful to have been along for the ride.
Happy grad season. That's right, it's dad's in grad season
(46:38):
at Phoenix. Harris. Congratulations, that's amazing mechanical engineering and a
small fee.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Come on, yeah, that's great, aky, ray right, Okay, this
is from our email high MFM. I just finished listening
to the harays from Manny and Rachel the Public school
Librarian and Teachers' Union VP, and I just wanted to
write in to back them up. I am a public
school school psychologists, so my main role is assessing and
determining appropriate support for kids with learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities,
(47:07):
emotional and behavioral needs, autism, ADHD, trauma, etc. It just
fills me with hope to hear from other listeners just
buckling down and doing the work in these times where
the government is asking us to reduce or remove our
help in the realm of diversity, equity and inclusion DEI,
which is my world. So my horay is this MFM
(47:27):
community of amazing people doing the work to be the
good in this world when the world is trying to
beat us down. Hashtag resists Love you, Aaron, Aaron.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Thats epic Aaron, great job and hooray to you. Keep
up the good work. Okay if the subject line if
this email is an unemployed hooray. I'm currently listening to
episode four seventy three and developing film from a solo
backpacking trip through the Rockies in my kitchen sink, Oh,
solo in.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
The Rockies, Solo Rockies kitchen sing.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I get four hours, and then I would dig a hole.
I was recently fired from a job which, ironically I
had drafted a letter of resignation for one week prior.
I guess the feeling was mutual. Now, as I intermittently
agitate my developing tank in and out of the warm bath,
I'm struck with an amusing thought. You know what that means, right,
Because your sister's a photographer. I'm struck with an amusing thought.
(48:23):
For years, I psyched myself out pursuing my real dream
of becoming an adventure photographer, as if the last five
years of sustaining a steady diet of misery at a
job I hated.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Was so much easier Here, I can't do it.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
As I reflect on that trip in the sixteen miles
I marched up and down a mountain with a thirty
five pound pack, I can't help but think what a
cakewalk that was in comparison.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
So true.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
So maybe now, as week by week I'm filled with
the palpable joy, you too have created by doing what
you love. I can try joy this time too. Wow,
hooray for the universe constantly forcing me to choose courage. Okay,
what's that from me?
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Okay? Okay, And now I get to read hoays from
asday from me in front of a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
That's incredible. Good work.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Kay, that's amazing. Okay, this is email, hooray slash. What
am I even doing? I'm happily spraying out my baby's
cloth diapers because after seven years of planning, changing life habits,
and saving up, my wife and I were finally financial
stable and mentally question mark stable enough to have our
first baby. So hooray for stability and sperm donors. Hey
(49:35):
much love, Gina, she Hersina.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
All the horays are covered in that one. I know.
That's incredible. I thought they were. I thought it was
gonna be more like a I'm gonna be grateful for
spraying out my child's cloth diaper instead of fully propulsed
by it.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
No. Yes, like I should say hooray to this because
this is what I wanted.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Great one, Okay, this one it says hooray. This is
an email. It says teen leadersh is the future? Are
you ready for this?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
I'm a teen, Let me.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Hear I'm a teen inside. I got to take seventeen
students from seventh graders to seniors to a statewide leadership conference.
It was two days filled with workshops by teens about
everything from fundraising to teamwork. My favorites will rip up
your cool card and then in parentheses it says, to
be cringe is to be free. Thank God, lucky for
(50:25):
them and the token emo kid, the token Emo kid
in like title case, and then in parentheses it says
making activities that are fun and safe for everyone. I
was completely filled with joy and peace to see hundreds
of teenagers who were kind, intelligent, and committed to making
the world a better place. I love being a teacher.
(50:47):
And seriously, the kids were all right. That was from Teddy.
My god, the report from Teddy that the kids are okay.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
To those teenagers, help us please teenagers okay. My hooray is.
On April twenty fourth, I got to celebrate one year
since my craniotomy. At twenty three, I unexpectedly had a
grandma seizure after experiencing left sided migraines that grew more frequent.
This seizure led to them finding a gray two arteriovenous
(51:14):
malformation in my brain. AVMs are usually not discovered until
the rupture or cause a stroke. I am a hypochondriac
who always swore I was going to have a stroke
every time I got a migraine. Jokes on everyone because
I was partially correct about Yeah, you were, you were right.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
You're not over dramatic.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
No, I am so lucky that I'm alive and healthy
and suffering no lasting effects from my seizure, surgery, or AVM.
If you are experiencing migraines or other neurological issues, pleasease
at me your my neurological issue if you were. If
you have a problem, please reach out to a medical professional.
It may save your life. I want to shout out
(51:51):
the University Hospital Main Campus neuro ICU nurses. They are
my sweet baby angels and do not get enough credit.
Stay sexy and get your noggins checked.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
Paige, p Wow, congratulations on surviving a neural cranial Yeah
that's serious. Good job, that's it. Yes, we did it
all right.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Thank you guys for tuning in, Thank you for listening.
Thank you to Hyndei for presenting these honking horays.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
And stay sexy meme Don't get murdered.
Speaker 1 (52:16):
Goodbye, Elvis, Do you want a cookie?
Speaker 2 (52:27):
This has been an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Our editor is Aristotle Oscevedo.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
This episode was mixed by Leona Scuolacci.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page.
While you're there, please like and subscribe. Goodbyebye
Hosts And Creators
Georgia Hardstark
Karen Kilgariff
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