496 - Swim Angry

This week, Georgia covers the disappearance of Anne Marie Fahey and Karen tells the story of heroic Armenian athlete Shavarsh Karapetyan.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's Georgia Hert Star. That's Karen Kilgariff, And we are
professional broadcasters.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Have you heard haven't you heard the word about us
and broadcasting.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
The good word? Do you like that I'm and this
is just for the YouTube audience, wearing a shirt that
kind of looks like I might just be sitting here
with no shirt on.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, but also you're insanely tan.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh. Well, yeah, I'm just going outside. It's so hot outside.
I'm just going out by the pool and spending I mean,
for me, it is.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Like I don't remember having seen your arms in a
long time, and the tan as a fuck. It turns
out I knowed.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Is I should have first revealed my pale arms to
you and then had told you. Had I known? Listen, Yeah,
I'm gonna go out onto the patio this weekend and
really do some stuff. Be careful.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Now there's uv rays. I'd put fake tanner on. It's
a little orange.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Well, looks fine.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
I'm like trying a bunch of them out for like tour.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Before tour, Like, so I don't look in stripes, see
which one is most natural? Yeah, what can.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
You see from the stage, like, do I like orange?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Actually, you know what's funny about that is I have
a dress I tried on that is especially plunging neckline,
and I'm like, I think I'm gonna have to use
fake tanner on this part of my chest that's never
been seen by the outside world. Cleavage, the lower cleave
that has stayed indoors for ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I mean, you have your own backyard, you have to
lay out topless. That's like one of the joys of
having your own backyard.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
But one of the joys of the house that's next
to you being kind of a boll of you, is
that you just I would feel so self conscious the
whole time.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hand those cities, fuck them, fuck them hall say you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Motherfuckers, you're welcome. Just keep winking and finger gunsing up
at them. Why are you doing that? Yeah, that's right.
Put your tits away. Why is she doing that? Why
does she keep winking at us? Why does she have
her tits?

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I'm speaking of touring and tits.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I guess no, what do you have to have? No,
that's a perfect sag, because get in there, we're.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Going on tour. I think the tan thing we should
say I could say, we should say, we might say
when this goes up, we'll be in Denver for the
first live show in eight six years, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Six or seven? Six or seven years. What's your number
one fear about that first night on stage in Denver?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
God, there's just so many actually, there aren't any everything
leading up to what I'm terrified of, But once you
get up there, I'm like, we got this. It's that
thing of like I'm not nervous about how it's gonna go.
I think he's gonna go fucking great. Oh good, And
I'm just excited about that. Okay, great, Maybe like I
could trip on the way in, but even that would
be like kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I think we've done that though.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, And so hopefully someone gets it on video and
it's fine.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yes, content content, content, always, everything is content. I think
I just had that feeling of like you can't go back,
or like you can't recapture the old times. And I
loved the old times so much as you can you can.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, okay, why not, it's the same now, just just
time is different, true, true? And that bitch is linear?
Isn't linear?

Speaker 2 (03:24):
That's right? Is not linear? Whose side are you on?
Georgia said time is not linear or mine based in
rooted in science, So that Denver's gonna go well or
Denver's gonna go terribly Denver, what if the best show
we ever did was the Bananas Show. We guessed it
on in Denver and truly we peaked. Yeah, I mean
it was amazing.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
You should come to our live shows. There's some cities
that and some nights in certain cities that aren't selling out.
So we really disappointed in New San Diego and Diego.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Why got it together? We were there for you.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
We were so there for you. We have great stories
from there too, or at least I do.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
What that diorama was given to us in San Diego.
I can almost bet on it.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
See, they used to love us.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I mean they would make us stock. I've made us stuff.
But here's a difference. Six years in time. They've taken
all of the money out of the normal person's hands
and stolen out a way. Okay, who has an extra
however much money this is to go?

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, there's some exciting things going on at the live
shows that we can't talk about and won't talk about.
Refuse to talk about Salami wheel. There's gonna be so
you're gonna want to go. I think it's gonna be
a great tour and I'm looking forward to it, and
I'm looking forward to my tan.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, we're now in a tan contest, Georgia. You have
to beat this level.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Good luck.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
There's a lot of freckles that might be visual.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
It's very Italian tan. I can't achieve as a Eastern
European woman.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
But you know, if you've ever gone to Circus Vargas,
then you're gonna love what's happening at our live shows.
So get over here.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yes that's an old reference, but we need you the
over forties who know that reference.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yes, that's right, Chen naxers in above, Circus Vargas, Circus Vargas,
fucking remember Circus, Remember, And it would just be like
a gigantic elephant and the commercial like their foot came
toward the camera.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
You can't do that anymore.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
You can't abuse the most beautiful, sensitive animal on the
planet anymore. It's for the best.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's probably for the best, and that's why we're going
on tour. It's because you can abuse us, yes, as
much as you want, but leave the.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Elephants alone and we're not going to say it again.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
No, we won't go to my favorite murder dot com
slash Live.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Get your tickets and find out if I think if
you go to my favorite murder dot com, it'll let
you know where to go for those tickets. Just in case.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
But what if they don't know.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
No, No, you're right, that's the exact address. But I'm
just saying I think that that landing page is going
to direct you as well. You don't have to remember it. No,
just in case. Should we do a little business about
our network? Sure, yeah, do it.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
There's some info. This is some very exciting breaking news
because everyone loves a Knicktery MFM an I made and
he is back with his brand new episode called crow Omen.
It's based on Georgia's story about finding a crow in
her pool from MFM episode forty four Cops of Trees.
And please, all you Day one listeners keep your eyes

(06:14):
out because there is a Vince cameo in this Nick
Terry video.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
I love when there's an MFM animated Vince cameo because
Nick Terry gets Vince's beard and he's like a Calico
cat Beard.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
And he gets it so spot on. Yes, I love it.
He's such a good artist. It's such a good episode.
Do you show up as a witch.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
It's just like so fucking funny.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
It has everything everything. I did have the idea the
other day where I was like, what if Nick Terry
made the before the show starts, let's all go to
the lobby video, but we make a new version of it.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
I was going to pitch up preview of like video
and shots and stuff like that of my favorite murder.
But Nick Terry, Yes, I get great.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Some sort of Nick Terry like yeah, oh my god.
And then we get him to do a spoof of
Nicole Kidman like heartbreak feels good in a place like
I mean, like we could just go to town and
be like, oh my god, big shows Kitman.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
What are we talking about the way she was like
jumping for joy when she divorced, Like, I don't know
what which Nicole Kidman you're referring to the list.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
That'd be really good.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
That's good, Nick, we should do it now.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Nick, why isn't the red fue pull up? Pick up
that hot up phone? Ohone? Okay, while you're on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
We've also got full episodes of Buried Bones, This Podcast
Will Kill You, and My Favorite Murder. So go check
that out at YouTube dot com, slash exactly right Media,
please and thank you, and you go first this week, right,
I'm gonna do it. Okay, So for my story, we
are firmly in the nineteen nineties.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Oh your favorite, I mean released favorite. I did some
good work back then.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I feel it was the best of times and the
very very worst off you and twenty nine year old
Anne Marie Fahey was smart, vibrant, and she was going places.
But behind this she was caught up in a secret
relationship with a man who was respected and powerful, but
underneath he was hiding something dark, and his actions sent

(08:10):
shockwaves through multiple interconnected small communities in none other than Delaware.
We've ever done a story from Delaware before.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
No, I honestly thought you're gonna say DC.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, it's because it sounds like Shander Levy. Yes it's not.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, but it totally has whispers of that. It's like
a parallel crime.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes, but no, Delaware, Delaware, DC's sister city.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Okay, this is bust through two thousand people are furious
that you just said that.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
This isn't just a story of a missing woman. It's
a story about power corruption and how far someone will
go to protect their image. And we got so many
emails to our email account from Roderino's about this story.
Because Delaware is in this area, specifically in Wilmington, is
such a tight knit community. Someone said, like it's the
song for cheers, every it's the same thing. Everyone knows
your name, everyone knows everything, like everyone's up in each

(08:59):
other business. It's a little big city kind of a thing. Yeah,
so this is like everyone from Delaware's hometown, like what
got them into true crimes? And it's really heartbreaking. The
main source for this story is a book by Anne
Rule that's right, called and Never Let Her Go?

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Do you sometimes get upset that we are psychically connected?
Because I do where always knew exactly who you were
about to say, Stephen King, I mean, there's no and
you're not some other author? Who else?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
The rest of the sources going to be found in
the show notes. But also there is a two thousand
and one mini series about this case called and Never
Let Her Go, starring Mark Harmon as the main dude.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I bet she've seen it and.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
MRC Carmon is like the buttoned up suit and tie,
older man, sexy, older man guy.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
He's the sister of ncis yeah. And summer School, Oh
that's okay. Oh, summer School's full range on summer range.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
And then the woman who plays Anne Marie Fahy is
the actress Catherine Morris, and I was like, who, and
then I look it up and she's like, she's in everything.
The show Cold Case. Did you ever watch that?

Speaker 2 (10:05):
The blonde?

Speaker 1 (10:05):
She is the main character in that. And I see
her face on a regular basis because every time I
google Cold Case to like, look at the Cold Case news, oh,
that fucking show comes up first, So I see her
face every day. Yes, and she's been in Murder she
wrote twice. She's been in Silk Stocking. She's been in
Death of a Cheerleader, that one for TV movie. So
like she's been in all the things.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
She is the female Mark Harmon. Turns out they just
and then now it's two powers meeting. I have to
say this too. The second you said the disappearance of
Anne Marie Fayhey, the name Anne Marie Fayhee is such
a that's my cousin. That's my amory to me, being
irish sometimes feels like a small town because everyone has
the same lilt, the same thing, and you can kind

(10:47):
of like I can see her feel her. Yeah, yeah,
that's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
So we're gonna start on Saturday, June twenty ninth, nineteen
ninety six, and we're in Willington, Delaware, and a thirty
year old man named Mike Scanlon is supposed to have
dinner with his twenty nine year old girlfriend Anne Marie Fahey,
along with her brother Robert and his family, but Ann
Marie never shows up to meet Mike to head over
to dinner. Anne Marie works as the scheduling secretary for

(11:12):
the governor of Delaware, a Democrat named Thomas Carper. She's
worked for him since he was a congressman, and she
is like political and going places and really passionate about it.
I read this one little detail and like almost made
me cry. She keeps a collection of her rabby childhood
stuffed animals at her apartment and they all have women's

(11:32):
rights buttons pinned on their lapel, like pinned.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
On them because that's like the generations, you know what
I mean. It's like, here's me as a kid. Then
here's me as like teenager getting older.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Here's what I'm passionate about.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
And I'm a woman in the world and I to
understand what I'm up against.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, and it's just kind of like it's just I
see that person so well based on that one little detail.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
So, Anne Marie, who most people call Annie, is one
of six siblings and a close family, which is also
very involved in the tight knit Rish American community in Wilmington.
That's the thing there. I dated a guy from Wilmington,
and I don't know anything about it except they eat scrapple,
a lot scrapple.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Scrapple. Yeah, what's that like a nice hash with your eggs?

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Absolutely no, it's like a spam toast. I'm gonna get
yelled at for this.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Spam toast, like avocado toast, but spam.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
I think it's like spam, like a chopped up meat,
A lot of chopped up meat.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Let's like guess other even worse stuff so that people
get angry and angrier and write in more and more
about what scrapple is.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
I think it's a cousin of spam.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
I don't even need to say that. I know you
fucking will, and I appreciate it. Annie is the baby
of the family. She has four brothers and one sister,
so they're all a little older when she's born, so
of course he're super protective over little Annie. Annie's mother, Kathleen,
had died of lung cancer when she was only nine
years old, and her father, Robert, is never the same
after this. He struggles with alcoholism, he stops being able

(12:55):
to take care of the family. Some of the older kids,
who are now young adults at this point, step in
to take care of Annie, and they do their best
while they're putting themselves through school. Almost all of the
older Faihy kids work at a pub, the local pub
called O Friels, owned by their close family friends. So
it is small town small town.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Also, that's just the tragic. Mom dying of cancer when
you're nine years old is like the most painful.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Thing, absolutely, and then the dad loses it. It sounds
like he was not able to pull it together. He
finally loses the family home when Annie is fifteen, and
so he moves into an apartment and Annie, who's an
athlete and a great student, winds up living with the
family that she babysits for in order.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
To stay in her high school oh, because she doesn't
want to be out of the district.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, And they adore her, they consider her part of
the family. But she's just not totally comfortable, you know,
living there.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
She just feels weird. You're a guest your whole life totally.
That's awful.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Absolutely, And so that arrangement ends towards the end of
high school. And at that point Annie briefly moves back
in with her dad and then lives with her two
eldest brothers. She's also working in a restaurant and is
essentially like a self sufficient adult even though she's just seventeen.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
It's like that take care of yourself because you have to.
You have to.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah, And she actually fucking thrives and makes it. She
graduates from high school, goes on to college. She initially
flourishes in college and then struggles with depression and has
to take a break, but she gets therapy and graduates.
She does struggle with anorexia as well, as so many
young women do. The fay He kids bolstered by that

(14:29):
great community that the other part of had all managed
to do well in school, get good jobs, and generally
make nice lives for themselves. Like they beat the fucking
odds and they really it was great.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
They really went for it, probably because they have community.
It sounds like it seems like it's a very helpful thing. Yeah, yeah,
it's big. Like there's a family that's like, please come
and live with us. Yeah, this is happening to you.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Or like having other adults to count on when you're
a kid who can't count on your parents is just
a huge part of it. Yeah, of like making it.
Back in nineteen ninety six, when Annie goes missing, it's
the last wee of Delaware's legislative session, so at first
Annie's brother and boyfriend think it's possible that she had
been caught up working late that she was supposed to
meet them for dinner. It's normal for staffers in the

(15:10):
Governor's office to spend the night working at crunch times
like this. But then at nine pm, Mike, the boyfriend
calls Annie's older sister, who's very concerned right off the bat,
and she starts calling Annie's friends, and one of the
friends who work with her says that she's not working late,
so she is just missing. And Mike had driven past
Annie's apartment earlier in the day before they were supposed

(15:30):
to meet to go to dinner and had seen her
car there, and it's still there, even though Annie isn't
picking up the phone in her apartment. Annie's landlady says
she hasn't seen her in the last two days. No
one's really talked to her. Basically, they realized no one's
heard from her since Thursday, the twenty seventh, and now
it's Saturday. So the landlady lets them into the apartment.

(15:50):
And it's really out of character the way her apartment
is left. It's really strange for her because she's very
neat and organized. She's so neat and organized that she
stacks her pennies so that each coin has Lincoln's profile
facing in the same direction, which I'm just picturing Vince
like he has to have his bills facing the same
way and in the right order, and he's really precise

(16:12):
about that.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, because when you are a child and you grew
up in this situation where things are out of your
control all of the time, you learn to get some
control in the places that you can get.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
It totally, totally She also never lets trash sit in
her apartment, always taking smaller bags out whenever she leaves.
But when they get into her apartment today, there's rotting
produce all over the kitchen counters because she hadn't put
her food away, her groceries away in the kitchen, so
there's like a rotting smell, which is so not like her.
They also find leftovers from a restaurant in Philadelphia called

(16:46):
Panorama that are in the fridge. They don't look super old,
but they are dry, so they're not like super recent leftovers,
so they've definitely been sitting there for a few days.
Mike says he and Annie had not eaten there together.
Philadelphia is about forty minute drive from Wilmington. There's other
weird stuff in the kitchen. There's samples of prescription medications
scattered around and packages of food on the counter but

(17:08):
not put away. Annie's purse is also in the kitchen.
Her wallet is there with cash in it, but her
keys are missing. Her house and car keys are missing.
Other than that, the apartment looks mostly the way Annie
would leave it. A couple of small things are different. It's
a small apartment, modestly furnished, but decorated with Annie's little touches.
As I said, she keeps her stuffed animals with those

(17:29):
pins on them. So at midnight everyone's worried. Annie's sister
calls the police, and once they eventually get there, one
of Annie's friends mentions that she has unheard messages on
her answering machine. Or there's no cell phones, there's a
blinking answering machine. They listen to the messages, which are
almost entirely from everyone in the room, but all of
them are from Thursday afternoon on, so she hadn't listened

(17:52):
to them, which is very unlike Annie. She always listens
to her messages and calls right back. So Annie's sister
Catherine then shows the police something she had found before
the police arrived. She'd been looking through the letters and
cards in Annie's drawers and found a letter that ends
with quote, all I want to do is make you
happy and be with you. I love you end quote.

(18:13):
It's not signed, but it's on a letter head that
says from the desk of Thomas Capano. So that is
here is Mark Harmon right? Okay, the name Tom Capano
is familiar to Kathleen, the sister she knows of him.
He's a prominent lawyer and political advisor from a prominent
real estate family. But she's weirded out by this letter, obviously,

(18:35):
both because of the way it ends and because she, Kathleen,
is briefly mentioned in it. So it's a long letter
that talks about Annie's family with a lot of familiarity,
as if he and Annie have talked a lot, and
she's never even heard of like this dude in relation
to Annie.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Right, she doesn't know him personally.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, Tom is very involved in politics. He's worked as
a legal counsel for a previous governor, not the one
Annie worked for, and is a political consultant. Tom's father
is a very successful real estate developer, and Tom's a
very successful lawyer. But he has three younger brothers, Louis, Joey,
and Jerry, and none of them are nearly as buttoned

(19:13):
up and professional as Tom seemingly is. They've all been
involved in various degrees of crime in their personal lives
and professional lives. Jerry, as Anne Rule puts it, quote,
seem to care for nothing but guns, shark fishing, big
game hunting, and girls with big hair and clothes that
fit like a second skin end quote.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
That's an rule for you. She's going to say it.
She's not going to spare anyone's feelings. Can you imagine
if that was, like, your big interest is shark fishing? No,
leave them alone, get away from big games.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Not it with the elephants and the sharks. So Louie
and Joey, two of the brothers work in the family
real estate development business. Jerry is the loosest canon he
can't be in an office setting and me neither, and
starts a landscaping business and has a lot of client
overlap with his brothers. Tom also has an older sister, Marian,
who's played by Olympia Ducaucus Buckin' legend my favorite, such

(20:06):
a legend, and she's completely excluded from the family business.
She's supposed to get into allowance from her brothers, but
they just always fight instead. All this to say Tom
has a very good reputation, but his family does not.
When Tom and Annie meet in nineteen ninety three, three
years before her disappearance, he's about forty three and she
is about twenty six. This is years before she meets Mike,

(20:29):
her new boyfriend. Tom is married at the time and
has four daughters, not great, but he also has a
mistress named Debbie who he's been seeing for years. Annie
and Tom meet at a political fundraiser and have a
lot of people in common, including those close family friends
who own the pub, because they're also very involved in
local politics. So they kind of just meet and click.

(20:52):
And they're both from big Delaware families, from adjacent immigrant communities.
She's Irish and he's Italian, and it's just like this
in Deer community, so they kind of.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
You can hear the accordium music playing in the background.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, So Annie and Tom have a work lunch together
after they meet, but quickly after that they start having
dinner dates. Annie and her friends are all just starting out,
not making much money, and Tom takes her to nice
restaurants gives her that access to the kind of life
she hasn't been able to have before. Yeah, you know, grooming,
that's what they call it.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
For the next couple of years, Tom and Annie are
sort of on and off again, and in between Annie
dates other people. During this whole period, Annie struggles with
her mental health, particularly with her anorexia, and she experiences
a huge setback when her psychologist is killed in a
drunk driving accident. Yeah, it takes Annie a while to
find a new one, and in this period she leans

(21:46):
on Tom a lot more. All this time, she writes
in a diary documenting her relationship with Tom and other
things going on in her life. By nineteen ninety five,
when she's twenty eight, she confides in her work friend
Jill that Tom seems like he's trying to control her.
I mean, you know, he's in his late forties, and
he's a professional, and he's married and he has children.

(22:07):
It's just that thing that you can picture that happens
all the fucking time.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Right, because it's like that is part of why he's
doing it. You know, he's showing himself. But then he can't.
He has to control her because if she steps out
a line for one second, he's got all these things
at risk.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
A lot of things could go wrong.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
That's not in no way am I saying that he
was right for them. It's disgusting and weird. So he's
starting to try to control her.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
He makes her interview for a job being a personal
assistant to his brother Louis, the sleazy real estate developer,
and it's clear that Tom just wants to keep Annie
close and under his control. Thankfully, Annie doesn't take the job,
but Tom tries to control how she dresses. He tries
to isolate her from her friends and becomes upset when
he thinks she's spending too much time with them. It's

(22:53):
all just it's textbook control abuse.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Why are all the boyfriends that are so terrible the
ones that have like sick girlfriends. It's like, can you
just do this to one person and then hang it up?
Get yourself a therapist, seriously, Jesus.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
He also repeatedly tells her that they should end the
relationship and then abruptly changes his mind. And there are
times when Annie also tries to end a relationship, but
he always guilds her into changing her mind. Around this time,
in September of nineteen ninety five, Tom and his wife separate.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
But this is also.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
When Annie meets Mike, and it's actually the governor of
Delaware who sets the two of them up, which is like,
you legally have to get married now. The governor of
Delaware is like, hey, I got a nice guy for you.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Have you ever seen or heard of the Governor of Delaware? No,
because he's they're not real. I don't think they're real.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Mike is kind and he you know, he's the same
age as Annie, and they start seriously dating in October.
And at this same time, Tom is telling both Annie
and his other mistress that he has left his wife
for them. Okay, you know, got it. The women don't
know about each other. Annie tells Tom she's seeing someone
and wants to break it off, and Tom starts calling

(24:04):
her twenty times a day. He threatens to tell Mike,
the new boyfriend, about their relationship, even though it seems
like they're not really seeing each other anymore. On one occasion,
he bursts into her apartment and gathers every item he's.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
Up given to her.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
And at this point, in addition to promising to Mary Debbie,
the mistress who predates Annie, Tom is also having a
different affair with a woman from work, surprising to nobody.
So he's just fucking mound total three now because the
wife has.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
The wife was probably like enough already, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right, So Spring goes better for Annie. She finds a
new therapist, she keeps seeing Mike, and Tom seems to
be busy with his multiple other women. He's mostly leading
Annie alone, but at the end of April, he turns
up again, sending a ton of emails from his work
email to her. He starts out by a listening sympathy
by talking about one of his daughter's health issues, and

(24:55):
soon he's sending little jokes. He just kind of reels
her back in offering to pay for a new windshield
that crack that she needs help with and is stressed
about just doing those things.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, just like White nighting right wherever he can exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
And despite progress in therapy, and he's at a point
where she's really struggling with her eating disorder. And on
June twelfth, about two weeks before her disappearance, she faints
at work. I've done that, Mike. The boyfriend is aware
of her history of anorexia, but she still doesn't want
him to know how bad it is at the moment.
I've totally done that before. Where I used to have
an eating disorder, I don't anymore. In my faint Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, Well, Also that's talk about a control issue that's
like eating disorders totally. So it's kind of, you know,
it's like bad to worse for her because it's like
she already has this issue. Yeah, and then the people
that she has in her life, right, aren't the people
that you want helping you in that home? Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (25:52):
And so she's too like embarrassed to tell her new
boyfriend that this is going on right now, and so
she calls Tom. He knows all about it, he's been
there for years, and he picks up the phone and
he drives her home after she thinks so Tom interprets
this as Annie choosing him over Mike, so he keeps
contacting her after this. He offers to buy her things,

(26:14):
she keeps saying no. He offers to get the cracked
windshield fixed, and she refuses, and she does so very
politely in emails, but she's still firmly refusing to accept
anything from him, like it wasn't an invitation to come
back in her life. Then at the end of June,
he invites her out to dinner with him on the
Thursday night that she was last seen. Annie doesn't reply

(26:36):
in the email, so if she does accept, it seems
like she did so over the phone, so there's no
record of it, and she doesn't tell anyone about the
invitation or whether or not she accepted it.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
I hate that we've talked about that scenario before, where
you kind of paint yourself into this corner of no
one knows where you are because you think, well, for
whatever reason that you think that, it's I hate that. Yeah,
just tell someone.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
So with Annie missing, her close friends confirmed the relationship
with Tom to the police and tell them that Annie
had complained about him being controlling. There's more correspondence from
Tom on his firm stationery. Annie had her detailed diary
as well that lays out the whole story of their relationship.
One of the most recent entries talks about breaking it

(27:20):
off and says, quote, I finally have brought closure to
Tom Capano. What a controlling, manipulative, insecure, jealous maniac end quote.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
So now the police are trying to confirm with Annie
went to dinner with Tom on that Thursday, June twenty seventh,
last time she was seen. It seems that way because
of the leftovers that were from the Philadelphia restaurant in
her fridge. It's a place they had gone to before together.
Tom had told his longtime mistress Debbie that he had
plans in Philadelphia that evening, but that he would probably

(27:52):
be done by nine p thirty. So it seems like
the plans were with Annie and then he was going
to go to his mistress's house. At three thirty am
on Sunday morning, the thirtieth, two detectives knock on Tom's door.
Tom says he's aware that Annie is missing. He tells
the police that the last time he saw her was
that Thursday night. Confirms they went to dinner and that
he drove her, that they stopped briefly at his apartment

(28:13):
to pick up some groceries he had bought for Annie,
and then went back to her apartment. He says he
put the grocery bag down on the counter, gave her
another gift, and used the bathroom and left and that
was the last time he saw her was when he
left her at the apartment. The detective asked if they
can look around the house, but Tom says that his
daughters are asleep upstairs and doesn't want them to get
scared and refuses to let them in. And they don't

(28:34):
have a warrant, and so they come back the next morning,
and so who knows what evidence they would have found
if they had insisted on coming in or had a warrant.
And when they do come back at ten am, Tom
isn't there. They finally track him down. He takes them
back to the house to look around for not doing
a full search, but the house looks very clean.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
It is what they say.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
The detectives are bracing for an uphill battle and for
a publicity. Tom is a well known and well respected
lawyer with a lot of connections. His brothers are known
to be in trouble with the law from time to time,
but not Tom. So everyone is pretty shocked about this. Actually,
there's some ritorinos who wrote in that said their dads
used to like hang out with him, like in groups
with him sometimes, and everyone was very surprised that he

(29:18):
was implicated.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Okay, you know, he's the good.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Boy right on the outside. He kept a shit together well.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
And also that's the ultimate position to be in, because
if you're the one that gets your homework done and
goes to school and becomes a lawyer, and then you
have these kind of like dirt baggy brothers to a degree,
we don't know these people, but you always look good
no matter what, and you can always make yourself look
good because you're just playing that you're playing your position essentially, right.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
So at this point, the Fay He siblings are all
working hard to get Annie's disappearance out to the press,
and she's on the front page of all the local newspapers.
It becomes a huge story because stuff like this does
not happen in Wilmington or in Delaware at all. Of Friels,
the pub that was the hub the Faihe's community, hangs
a banner with a photo of Annie advertising a ten
thousand dollars reward for information leading to her recovery, which

(30:08):
in today's money ten thousand dollars this is eighty seven
ninety six, ninety six. Yeah, it's less than you think
it would be twenty eight thousand.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
That's a way less.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Bipontroda I know. Annie's therapist comes forward and tells police
that she's worried that Tom has abducted Annie, because Annie
had brought this up as something she worried about in therapy,
him abducting her. She was specifically worried that Tom would
hire people to do it. They discussed this at their
very last session before Annie disappeared, and she said that

(30:40):
she urged Annie to report him to the Attorney General's office.
Some people believe that Annie did threaten him that night
to do that, and that is what maybe set Tom off.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, I mean that's horrifying,
and it just makes me think of every that's like
every part of law and order when they go to
the therapist and they're like I can't tell you, and
they're like, so one could be dead. It's like to
get that therapist, who I'm sure was very motivated to
be like, I need to tell you what the last
thing she told me, right, because it's exactly what's happening

(31:10):
right now. Horrifying.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
As investigators learned more about Tom, they learned that he's
had other affairs and has a history of becoming threatening
and possessive. In one case, in the late seventies, long
before Annie, he'd been having an affair with an engaged
woman while he was newly married. He showed up at
her bachelorette party and at the wedding and wrote her
obsessive letters for months. So he was just unhinged.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, he couldn't stop. Well again because it's control, right,
he's like a stalker.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Then he tried to hire a man to beat her
up or hit her with a car, specifically requesting these
two things, but the man who tried to hire, went
to the FBI with tapes of Tom's phone calls.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
I love when hit men do that. It's not that common,
I don't think, but like every once in a while
they'll be like, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
What this is, this is against my KHOTO con and
I'm a hit man, and like who the fuck are you?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, it's terrifying, but also just that ideas like hiring
someone to hit them with a car. Yeah, disgusting, it's awful.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
But authorities essentially at that time give Tom a slap
on the wrist and send him on his way.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Wow. I know.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
The FBI is called into Annie's case at the personal
request of Governor Carper, who's Annie's boss, and in July
they do an extensive search of Tom's house. They find
out that Tom had replaced this is just like textbook,
replace the carpet and the sofa in his living room
the weekend Annie disappeared.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Oh my god. He also had gone to a.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Drugstore and bought a cleaning product with this fucking name
that is just are you ready for this. It's called
Carbona Blood and Milk remover.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Oh sir, that's a confession. Yeah. At the Ace Hardware
but why milk? Carbona.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
I want to ask the Carbona family, like, can you
just do blood?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
I wonder if milk stinks? And even when you get
it up, like it still keeps stinking. If it's in there,
you're a farm girl. There, a farm girl, And I've
dropped many a latte in my car, so.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Lates, samel in the carts sour.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
You're just like it's fine. I like vanilla lattes. And
then like a week later, like, why does everything turn
out this way?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
You explained? Sorry, Carbona family, don't at me. I get
you now They're.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Like this, do you understand what milk is like? In cope? Well, blood, milk, blood,
it's all in there.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
The search also turns up bloodstains on the woodwork in
the living room and on a radiator and on the
door of a laundry closet like blood and you're a yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
So when the cops knocked, he was standing there, right.
If they had just walked in and looked at that room,
something might have been there.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, And they didn't have a warrant, but they could
have maybe gotten one. But also he was political, so
maybe it would have been impossible. Who knows, you know,
it's just a missed opportunity. But they don't have a
body to match the blood to, right because Annie is missing.
So the agents learned that Annie donated blood very regularly,
they locate they track down her last donation right before

(34:06):
it gets shipped overseas to test it. Wow, and the
nick of time and the blood is found to be
a match. That is some detective.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Work, right and also fully makes up for having to
stand at that doorway not do anything that might have
been the FBI and then that might have been But
thank god, yes, because also that kind of thing, if
it is that overt and horrible of a murder where
he just killed her in his living room because he
was angry or said everywhere.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, but there's no body. And at the time it
is very rare for anyone to be arrested, for anyone
to be tried for murder without a body nineteen ninety six.
But around this same time when they find all this
evidence of blood, Tom's brother Jerry Tom and Jerry is
arrested on drug and weapons charges. And you know what

(34:59):
happens to like regular criminals, they snitchit exactly. So he's like,
I'll cooperate with you. To get a better case on
the shit that I'm in trouble with and essentially completely
throws his brother under the bus. Oh wow, completely rats
his brother out.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Louie, one of Tom's older brothers, also winds up cooperating,
so Jerry and Louie tell police that Tom did kill
Annie at his own house and that he put her
body in a fishing cooler the day after she was
last seen. Tom and Jerry used Jerry's boat to go
about seventy miles off the coast of Stone Harbor, but

(35:37):
then the cooler wouldn't sink, so instead they wrapped two
anchors around Annie's body and let her sink into the Atlantic,
and then they threw the empty cooler into the water.
And when the story's made public, two fishermen come forward
saying they had found a cooler in the ocean like
the one described off the Jersey shore and they had

(35:57):
used it to store fish. But the cooler is found
to match the one described, coroborating his story.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm pretty sure, and I could be wrong with all
the things we've looked at over the years, but I'm
pretty sure. I've seen the clip of those fishermen who
talked to the news. Yeah, because they found that. Because
it's like they show it like a floating out here
right in the middle of it whatever. And it is
so disturbing, Like this idea where there are people, as

(36:22):
we know in this world that if they want you gone,
you're gone because they know how to do it and
they know those kinds of details.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
It's awful, I imagine. The case goes to trial October
of nineteen ninety eight. In court, Tom tells a different
story than anyone's ever heard before. His brothers have ratted
him out. He kind of can't fight that, so he
confirms that he brought Annie to his house after dropping
the gift and groceries at her house.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Wait, can I guess she did something to him?

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Even worse, the mistress did it. Her name is Debbie.
I'm not saying her last name because it's just such bullshit.
He's saying that. Debbie shows up, discovers them together, she's
up set. There's a scuffle and Debbie has a gun
and he grabs Debbie's arm and the gun goes off.
That's what he says happened. He admits to hiding Annie's

(37:09):
body and claims Debbie helped him do it. Debbie testifies too,
and she vehemently denies being at his house that night,
although she does say one time Tom had asked her
to buy a handgun in her name, and she did.
She says she gave it to him and never saw
it again. So all she does is fucking point the
finger that he actually has a gun.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Well, she better because she was like, oh no, here's
who I'm gonna throw under the bus. And she's like
the one person that actually loved you, that thought this
was all real and now is finding out you have,
you know, all these other mistresses and whatever, and you're
gonna blame me. I have shit on you, bro, just
like when does it? It's craven fucking Mark Harmon.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Tom is sound guilty at first degree murder, and it's
the first time in Delaware history that someone is convicted
of murder in the absence of a body or a
murder weapon, so they don't have either, but they're still
able to convict her. At first, Tom is sentenced to death,
but on one of his appeals, the death sentence is
overturned since it had been decided by a jury verdict
that was not unanimous. He is sentenced to life in prison. Instead,

(38:13):
he appeals several more times, and his conviction is affirmed
each time. Tom dies in prison at the age of
sixty one in twenty eleven of heart failure. Annie is
remembered as a bright light in the Wilmington community and
in brandy Wine Park there's a bench dedicated to her memory.
O'friel's pub, where all the fay He kids worked and
where Annie first met Mike closes in two thousand and one,

(38:37):
but until it does, the banner with Annie's picture advertising
the reward for information leading to her return remains hanging.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Oh that kills me.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
And I think there's so many murderinos that started with
this case from Delaware, so many people wrote them.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah, I mean, it's just oh they kept a sign,
I know.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
And that is the story of the murder of Anne
Marie fahe Loss. Yeah horrible, Yeah, always.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
But I mean always, but man, this one. Yeah, okay,
I'm going to turn it around. Are you ready?

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I'm so fucking ready.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
Okay, because I was tough. Yeah, but there are good
things that happened in the world. Remember when I'll tell
you there's a Twitter account called Historic Videos, but then
the handle is history and memes and so that's I
saw this reddit nice three paragraph tweet, and I was like,
I've never heard this story, and I think other people

(39:36):
should know this story, and especially you and I. You
being a native of La, me being a longtime citizen.
If you live in LA or you watch the Kardashians,
you know what a big part of the culture here
Armenians are. It's apparently the largest concentration of Armenians outside
of Armenia is in Glendale, which is a suburb of

(39:57):
LA And so when I I started reading this, I
was like, oh, well, this is great. There's lots of
people who are going to like this story. So if
you don't know, Armenia is a small, landlocked country about
the size of Maryland. I would wonder how it competes
with Delaware, but don't know anything about our states. It's
a beautiful country and it's actually filled with beautiful lakes

(40:20):
and waterfalls and mineral springs. But the history in Armenia
is incredibly heavy. In nineteen fifteen, toward the end of
the Ottoman Empire, around one point five million Armenians were
murdered in a devastating state sanctioned genocide, which is why
there are so many Armenian immigrants in La So the

(40:41):
story I'm about to tell you it takes place sixty
years after that, when Armenia is under Soviet rule. It
is a late September evening in nineteen seventy six, the
workdays coming to an end, and dozens of Communers are
making their way across Urevon, which is the capital of
Armenia and the largest city in the whole country. It's
a typical rush hour, but it's interrupted by the sound

(41:03):
of screeching metal and then a big crashing boom, and
people scream in terror as they watch a packed trolleybus
veer off its tracks along Lake Yerevon, a huge reservoir
in the city. Later on, they'll say that per investigation,
the driver was speeding, but witnesses will actually come forward

(41:26):
and report that he had been trying to prevent a
pickpocket from leaving the trolleybus, and so he refused to
break to let that person off, and then he was
hit over the head with a metal bar and knocked out.
So then the trolleybus not only didn't break, but kept speeding,
and it flies over a curb and then slams nose

(41:47):
first into the concrete perimeter that runs around the reservoir.
It flips a few times and then it rolls into
Lake Yerevon and there are nearly one hundred people school kids,
factory workers, housewives, retirees that are trapped inside and seconds
from drowning in this very cold lakewater. But they are

(42:09):
not helpless because one particularly capable bystander immediately springs into action.
Kind of this is the story of a truly heroic
Armenian athlete named Chavarge Kara Petyon. Yes, have you heard
of this?

Speaker 1 (42:24):
I've read it in the same style that you found
it in on like random hontry. Interesting history, right, Yes.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
So the main source used in today's story is a
twenty fourteen grant Land article by a writer named Karl
Schrek entitled The Plunge, and the rest of the sources
are on our show notes. So we're going to go
back twenty years before the crash I just described to
nineteen fifty three, when Chavarsh was born into a working

(42:52):
class Armenian family. His path in life is more or
less decided for him because his father, Vladimir has dreams
for his three sons, chavarche Como and anatolely of them
all becoming world class athletes. It's a partially strategic dream
that he has because excelling in sports is one of
the few ways Armenians, especially those from humble backgrounds, can

(43:17):
have any kind of upward mobility without drawing too much
attention from Soviet authorities. Sure, so it's like a way
to get ahead. So Vladimir sciences boys up for gymnastics
under an incredibly accomplished Armenian athlete and Olympic gold medalist
named Albert Azarian. Immediately, Chavar shows a ton of potential.

(43:39):
He's said to have a quote commanding build, quick reflexes,
and relentless ambition. It's the commanding build that really, I
think has gotten you so funny. Definitely a lot of this,
a lot of muscle muscle flexing. But even with such
raw talent, Chavar's coaches don't think he can make a

(44:00):
out of gymnastics because he begins training when he's a
little too old in a sport where competitors peek in
their early teens and he's like in his mid teens.
But nobody wants to see him leave competitive sports because
he's so kind of such a natural, so one coach
suggests he pivots to swimming, and this is out of

(44:22):
left field. As reporter Carl Schrek explains in twenty fourteen quote,
Armenia is not a nation of swimmers. The country is
home to just a handful of public pools. A few
of Armenia's lakes and rivers are suitable for swimming. The
president of the Armenia and Swimming Federation estimates that only
thirty percent of the population knows how to swim wow,

(44:43):
a figure he says has changed little since Soviet times.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Interesting, I guess if you're landlocked, right, you're not like.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Maybe they do a little more like standing around and
splashing the water up onto themselves in a lake or
a stream. Always nice, But no, they won't get their
face wet like my mom at blue when she would
be like always worrying about her hair and maga. But
Chavarsh commits himself to the sport, and he eventually joins
a league dedicated to developing professional Soviet swimmers, and sure enough,

(45:12):
Chavarche is good. He's particularly fast in backstroke and freestyle events,
and he quickly earns a reputation for being one of
Armenia's most promising young swimmers, but over the next several
years he starts to lag behind the other swimmers in
his age group. It's said that he's as he grows older,
he becomes less flexible, and he just starts having a

(45:33):
hard time nailing down his stroke technique and that slows
him down. And then, at just seventeen years old, Chavarche
is dropped from his swimming league. Of course, this is
a huge gut punch for him. His dreams of becoming
a champion swimmer are gone. So he hits a bar
that night with a fellow swimmer, presumably to drown of sorrows.

(45:53):
But that same friend happens to be recruiting athletes for
a finn swimming team. Hmm, know what that is? Luckily
there's a paragraph right under here that will tell you
fin swimming is pretty much what it sounds like. It's
an event where competitors race one another with fins dropped
to their feet. It might be two fins like scuba divers,
like they wear, or it could be what's called a

(46:16):
quote monofin, which is one big single fin like a
mermaid that you're playing mermaid in the pool.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I was picturing, like, why would they put a shark
fin to look like Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
And then they chum the waters. It's really strange.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
It's roleplay. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Yeah, it's shark roleplay. So shavarsh is interested and he
doesn't feel like he has any time to waste. So
even though he was drinking a combination of vodka and
beer all afternoon, he says, quote, I took a taxi home,
rested up a bit, and came back for my first workout.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Okay, he's when you're seventeen, man, you can do fucking anything.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yeah. And also there's part of it that's like, I
gotta do this for my entire future. It's not a hobby. Okay,
fair enough. So even for a sea into athlete like
chiavarch who's been training in gyms and pools since he
was a little kid, finn swimming workouts are next level,
and many of them happen outside of the pool, and
they're geared at body conditioning. To paint a picture, chavarses

(47:13):
training might and tail, running upwards of eighteen miles around
town with a backpack filled with sand strapped to his back.
It's the og weighted best. Yes, and here's the og
or weighted vest. He also might run around with a
fellow swimmer on his.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Shoulders waited best Steve, Steve, the weighted best, chicken fighting,
it's all classic training.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
He also climbs hills on his arms.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Oh fuck army crawling up a hill.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Oh wheelbarrow style, as a teammate holds his leg cute
so he has to there. So they're just trying to
make It's kind of like Rocky when he fights the
Russian guy, where it's like the workout is insane.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
But the Russian guy is the pool.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
That's the pool is fighting him. Chavarsh also becomes known
as the guy who jogs with ski boots attached to
big planks of wood around his neighborhood to strengthen his
ankles and feet. Okay, he's in it, he's showing off.
He's eighteen at this point, seventeen eighteen. One of the
most important skills that Chavarsh develops in this training is
breath control. In thin swimming, competitors might use snorkels for

(48:21):
longer distance races, but in sprints, they typically hold their
breath the entire time. So according to experts. You can
safely hold your breath for around a minute. Some people
can go longer, but then you're getting into dangerous territory
where you can actually damage your heart in your brain.
So we don't have an exact number for how long
Chavarche could hold his breath. We know it's several minutes,

(48:44):
which is pretty unbelievable. Do not try this at home?

Speaker 1 (48:47):
No, I swear I saw recently, like the record just
got broken for the longest breath holding.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, like some sort of a deep free swim dive
or something.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Are you a scientists and you know a lot about it?
Right in at my favorite murder dot comment tells everything
about breath holding.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
I know because I thought there's some people could do
like three minutes, yeah or something.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
But then like I swear recently it was like five minutes,
but that doesn't sound right. And then like the damage,
that's like.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
The damage unless it just pops you right into being
a mermaid. You found an article where it's thirty minutes,
forty minutes, no zero.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
You need to hear we need what do we need
breath doctors to tell us all about it? Jesus for
a MINIESO.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
My favorite murder also because you're a midsection super wide
if you can hold your breath for half an hour
for fish. Okay, love to discuss breath holding further murdering
as if you would please engage.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Someone at home is like my time to shine. Finally,
I've written you ten hometowns of actual true crime, and now.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
It's my cousin's TV who used to hold his breath
to make himself pass out so that he wouldn't be
in trouble with my aunt. Okay, so all of this
strength training and breath training pays off big time because
Chavarsh becomes an excellent in swimmer. He rips through pools
like a torpedo and he rarely has to surface because
he can hold his breath for so long. That long

(50:08):
thirty fucking minutes I mean. But also I wonder if
one minute wasn't just a mistype of Maren's and it
was supposed to be like fifteen or something, because one
minute is I feel like we could do that, no brag.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Okay, give me a week and maybe, yeah, we'd have to.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
Do some exercise. We have to get some bags of
sand vest for you, Steve, I got Steve the waited
Vest get up there. So, at just nineteen years old,
chavarche fulfills a childhood dream. He competes on behalf of
the Soviet Union in the nineteen seventy two European Championship
Games in Moscow, and he walks away with gold medals
in the fifty and one hundred meter finn swimming sprints

(50:45):
and all the glory he could hold. A Soviet magazine writes, quote,
it's safe to say we'll see this young athlete from
Armenia at many more major championships. And chavage does finn
swim as part of the Soviet team in the next
two European Championships seventy three and seventy four. He sets
world records and takes home a total of eight gold medals.

(51:06):
But at this high point in his career, when he's
only in his early twenties, he's inexplicably dropped by the
Soviet team. No yeah, the reason why is a mystery
even today. Chavarsh's best guess is that Soviet sports officials
wanted to showcase more Russian athletes for sure on the team,
but Shavarsha has gotten used to having the carpet pulled

(51:27):
from underneath him. Competitive sports are his life and livelihood,
so again he refuses to give up. He figures that
his best move is to practice harder than ever has before,
until he's so singularly impressive in the pool that the
Soviets can't help but bring him back to the team.
And that's what chavar Karapetyan was doing on September sixteenth,

(51:49):
nineteen seventy six, the day of the trolleybus crash.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Gottle's forgot about it.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
He is now twenty three years old, running near the
reservoir on another one of his grueling training sessions, and
he had already run thirteen miles with forty five pounds
of sand strapped to his back in a backpack, which.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
In today's money is like three marathons.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
I mean that much sand for me would be like
three hundred pounds of sand, Like, I can't lift this,
And I don't know why you're being so unresented. Seriously.
He's joined by his brother Como, who's also a competitive
athlete in swimming and other events. So Chavarche and Como
hear this crash of the trolleybus as it flies off
its tracks into the lake, and before Chavarche can even

(52:32):
figure out what he's doing, he finds himself running in
the direction of the explosion. Como rushes after him. The
trolleybus hits the lake bed and sinks quickly, kicking up
a cloud of heavy silt, and it ends up resting
about fifteen feet underwater. Chavarsh, acting purely on impulse and adrenaline,
rushes down to the lake, strips to his underwear, throws

(52:54):
off his backpack, and jumps into the water. Years later,
his brother Kamo will tell writer Carl Schwak that quote.
To this day, I ask myself if I had sprinted
to the scene and hadn't seen Chavarsh in the water,
would I have jumped in? The answer is always the same,
fifty to fifty, fifty to fifty. Maybe I think that's

(53:14):
really honest.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, my first instinct wasn't to save people completely.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
That's what a big deal what my brother did, which
is really cool, generous, generous. It's autumn and Armenia, so
it's cold outside and the water's freezing. On top of that,
Lake Yerevan is polluted. This reservoir is not a place
where most people would willingly swim at all, but the
brothers aren't thinking about that. They can see the trolley

(53:40):
pole sticking out of the lake, so they know where
the trolleybus is underwater. So they dive down and they
start circling it looking for some sort of entrance that
they can pull people out of. But all the windows
and doors are shut, none of them are broken. Only
seconds have passed since the crash, but already, of course,
time is running out, and the brothers come back up

(54:00):
for air. Chavarsh instruks Kamo to stay at the surface
while he goes back under. He figures Kamo will be safer,
but he can also call for help if Chavarsh himself
gets stuck or runs out of energy and needs to
be rescued. Then he dives back down to the trolley bus,
and despite all the silt making the water murky, he
somehow manages to find the back window. And when he does,

(54:24):
he quote brought his legs to his chest and thrust
his left leg through the window with what he describes
as quote a karate kick.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
And imagine being in there and like through the silt.
Suddenly you see this probably handsome fucking guy.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
You want to see Yeah, oh, he's very handsome.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
It's coming to save the day in the water. It's like, Hi, Hi,
he's cute.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Hi, how are you? I'd love to save you in
my small bathing suit. I would love that too, and
my beefy chest set a beef. That's a man that's
been running around with weights on his body. Yeah, save
the day. And then that what a fase, sweet little face,
what a fase? Yeah? So it's a howt gy kicking
in the window. Hell yeah, hell yes, So this kick works,

(55:10):
he breaks in. He also slices his leg in the process,
just part of it, so he has this huge gash
on his leg. But he's now created a six foot
wide opening in this trolleybus window without being able to
really see. He starts feeling around for bodies before pulling
someone through the window and then surfacing with them. Chavarsh

(55:31):
hands that survivor over to his brother, who now is
able to bring them to some first responders who have
just rode out on kayaks, and then Chavarsh immediately heads
back down. He moves unbelievably fast for someone who has
just run thirteen miles with forty five pounds of sandstota.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Or like not at all, like he moves fast for
a person, just for just for.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
One of us. So he swims back down to the
opening and grabs another person, brings them up to his brother,
goes back down, grabs another, and so on. He then realizes,
when he first comes up out of that area, he
can swim above the roof and then push off from
the roof and basically launch himself up to the surface
way faster, so he starts doing it that way. He

(56:16):
also pulled the glass of that six foot window out
by hand, so he made it so that no one
else would cut themselves the way he cut himself. Oh
my god. So now there's a crowd gathered to watch
this Harrying rescue mission play out, and one of the
men in the crowd is Shavarsha's father, Vladimir, who was
also coincidentally just in the area when the trolley bus
went into the lake. He is so stunned to realize

(56:38):
that the men in the water are his two sons.
He later says, quote, I thought to myself, it's a
good thing I made sure they learned how to swim. Yeah. Sorry, Yeah,
I love Armenian style. They're so like they don't get
riled up. Yea they're not extra, No, they're real. True.

(56:58):
He's not like boys, he's not bragging. He's just like, Wow,
thank god we got those swim lessons going. Vladimir will
later recall how tense and anxious these onlookers were. Of course,
they have no idea who Chavarsh actually is. At one point,
he doesn't resurface after a minute or two, and there
is a palpable feeling in the crowd that he might

(57:19):
have drowned mid rescue. Vladimir says, quote when he finally
came up, there was a massive communal sigh of relief.
I'm holding my breath right now, I know. So down below,
Chavarsh is still moving very fast, with no time to
be diligent or to think about what he's doing. At
one point, he grabs what he thinks is a person,
but realizes upon surfacing that it's a seat cushion. Oh no,

(57:42):
it paints him very much, and he will later say,
quote that cost one life. Oh, only a few minutes
have passed since this bus actually went into the water,
and Chavarsh has already pulled dozens of bodies through that
one broken window. We don't know the exact number, but
It's estimated that he saves around twenty people while I'm drowning.

(58:02):
Holy shit, twenty people one guy. But as precious seconds passed,
Chavarsh realizes there are no survivors left. So in addition
to the twenty people he saves, he recovers the bodies
of around fifteen victim.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
He keeps doing it even though it's hopeless.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Oh yeah, he winds down his rescue mission, but he
doesn't rest cranes have just arrived at Lake Yerevan to
lift the trolley bus out of the water, basically to
get the rest of the bodies up out of the water.
But the crane operators need to figure out how to
wrap the crane's cables around the trolley to get it out.
It's a dangerous job, but Chavarsh and his brother Kamo

(58:41):
do it.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
No, you guys have done enough.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
They're like, don't anybody else get in this water? Yeah,
let it just be us. Basically, Chavarch has to take
a crow bar underwater, break out more windows, and then
thread the cables through those broken windows by swimming through
them through the cab of the trolley bus where there's
like bodies yep, And they kind of can't see, and

(59:04):
I'm sure he didn't clear out the broken glass. I mean,
it's just he's doing it himself, and ultimately he's successful.
The cranes are able to lift the trolley bus from
the water, and the rest of the victims' bodies are recovered.
When Chavarsh's finally about to get out of the lake,
all of this exertion has taken a real toll on him,
plus the polluted water. His legs starts shaking, his vision

(59:27):
gets spotty, so his father, Vladimir takes him home and
urges him to rest, but Chavarsha's condition gets worse. His
fever spikes at one hundred and four degrees. He gets delirious.
He starts convulsing.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Because he's got that cut and then the pollution went in.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
It yes, horrifying, and also the sheer trauma of what
he basically got himself into and then had to continue doing.
That's just him by himself, with those with both survivors,
but then bodies, that's too much, okay, So so he's
taken to the hospital where he's diagnosed with a severe
case of pneumonia. He's pumped with the antibiotics and he

(01:00:06):
has to spend the next three weeks confined to a
hospital bed. Years later, one of Shavarsh's doctors will talk
about how close of a call this was, and they'll say,
quote to be honest, I was surprised that we were
able to save his life from that infection. It was
the healthy system of an athlete that fought, and after
he fought for the lives of others, God now gave

(01:00:27):
him the strength to fight for his own life. So
all of this happens, and he goes to the hospital.
He's basically in the hospital for about a month, and
essentially the people that were there and watched it happen
know about it, and so Bath gets talked about. But
most people in Yerevan don't know about the trolleybus accident,

(01:00:47):
and they certainly don't know about Chavarsh's heroic response to it,
although the local government has given him and Commo forty
eight roubles the equivalent of a quarter of the typical
monthly wage at the time, and that's all they get.
Even though it's an incredible newsworthy story, no out let's
pick it up. It seems very intentional because it's basically

(01:01:09):
about a tragic infrastructure failure, and the Soviets don't want
people hearing about that. Even the official report that documents
the Trolleybush crash is classified. But Chavarsh didn't do it
for attention or for glory. And actually when he marries
his wife Nelly later on, he never tells her about
what he tells me, Oh my god, dude, I earned it.

(01:01:38):
Chavarsh feels like he has more pressing concerns. He's supposed
to be working on his big comeback for the finn
swimming team. You did it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
That was your comeback.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I mean yeah, just three weeks after leaving the hospital,
he goes back to training. So he's in the hospital
for almost a month. That's insane. Basically takes a month
of like getting his strength back, and now he's back. Well,
it was much harder for him at that point. He says, quote,
when I started heavy training, I couldn't handle it. Mucus
was coming up from my lungs. I was coughing all
the time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
You had pneumonia, yeah, like less than a month ago.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Put the sand back down, buddy. Chavarsh also finds himself
getting very tense when he has to be in water.
Oh shit, which is understandable because of the trauma, but
he is so eager to prove himself to the Soviet
sports officials. He pushes through all of that fear and
pain and trauma, and just a few months later, in
the spring of nineteen seventy seven, he makes it to

(01:02:35):
the Soviet Championship Games once again, this time in Baku. Azerbajan,
your favorite country. I love it there as your Bajon
was the reference country at the first writing job I
ever had. Somebody very smart and funny made that reference,
and then I was just like, that's a country, so

(01:02:56):
now you know, like you really really know that way,
I really know it. Got it? Yeah, I would never
reference it because I don't know anything about it and
I can't pronounce it except that the nineteen seventy seven
Soviet Championship Games were there, so always known, which I've
always known because I'm a big fan of Soviet Championship Games.
Chavarsh is up against powerhouse Soviet swimmers. Two of his

(01:03:17):
competitors have set world records, but he's here on a
mission to prove himself to be the best finn swimmer
in the USSR, and when he hears the starting gunfire,
he leaps from the platform, he dives into the water,
and as he puts it, quote, I swam to the death.
I never raced so angry before. And in this race,

(01:03:38):
the now twenty four year old Chavarche sets a new
world record.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Damn, I said, swim angry. That's the way we're learning.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Swim angry. Baby, gotta do it, get in there and
really want it. Later that year, at the European Championship Games,
he'll win four more medals, three silvers and a gold.
Almost no one in the crowd has any idea that
less than a year before, this champion almost died saving
the lives of twenty people. It's not until the early

(01:04:07):
eighties when a reporter named Sergei Leskov, covering a swimming
competition in Moscow, hears about champion Armenian finn swimmer who
once quietly saved twenty people in Yerevan. And when serge
brings this story back to his editor, he's immediately sent
to Armenia to get the whole story and cover it all.
As Carl Shrek writes in his I just realized that

(01:04:29):
Carl Shrek's last name is Shrek. You just realized that, Yeah,
I'm just reading it because it's spelt with a C.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
I've been hearing Shrek the whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
He's just got a very light green complexion.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
I was thinking of the first time he said. I
was like, ah, that had to suck. That moment that
that movie came out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Just was like, oh no, oh no, it's me, Carl Shrek.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Yeah forever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Will you marry me, Princess? No sounds good, Carl Shrek,
please write in if you're good looking. Okay, So this
writer who wrote the piece for Grantland the Plunge, Carl Schrek,
says quote, it's unclear why local authorities decided to hand
over documents about the accident to Leskov after keeping it

(01:05:14):
quiet for so long. Perhaps they feared repercussions from Moscow
if they stonewalled a leading national papers attempt to publish
an ideologically sound lionization of a Soviet athlete. So maybe
it's like, now Chavarsh has legitimized himself in the story.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
He's earned the right to brag about the thing he did.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Yeah, got it? Yeah, regardless. In October of nineteen eighty two,
the story runs in this one Soviet newspaper under the
headline quote a champions underwater battle. Mind you, it implies
that Chavarche saved everyone on the trolleybus, which I think
that happens in stories like that, and it also does

(01:05:54):
not list the names of the victims. But this amazing
Armenian hero is finally getting his long overdue recognition. So
word spreads throughout the USSR, and one year later, in
nineteen eighty three, the most prominent newspaper in the Soviet
Union picks up this story and spotlights Chavarsh in a
lengthy article. It has a very wide reach and from

(01:06:16):
many of the people Chavarch has saved. This is the
first time they've ever learned his name, because like, yeah,
it all went under wraps totally. So they were like,
a guy got me out. All these other people died
and we don't know who he is. And they find
out not only he's him, but he's like this gold
medal winning swimmer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Oh. This is also the first time Chavarsh's wife, Nelly,
learns about her husband saving twenty lives.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Hey, honey, how do you think that went? I read
the newspaper today. Is there something that you've been meaning
to be?

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Like? Tell me whatever you need, whatever you need or
want to communicate to me, or not communicate to me,
do it because you're so hot. Never speak to me again.
Smokes cigarettes in the Pavilions parking lot all day long.
About a month after that article runs, the USSR awards
Chavarche the first of many medals recognizing his courage, and

(01:07:14):
over time he becomes a verifiable legend across the region. Finally,
the press allows him, or the you know, the powers
that be, allow him to get this credit that he
so rightly deserves. But he's not going to stop there,
because ten years after the trolleybus accident in nineteen eighty five,
a fire breaks out at a year Van arena and

(01:07:36):
Chevarche bursts into the burning building, shoulder to shoulder with
the firefighters helping to look for survivors. Is he innaespeedo?
I mean, because how would he's got one fin on
his back? We don't know much more about the details
of that scenario. We just know that he went in.
He suffers burns in the process, but afterwards he will

(01:07:59):
nonchalantly say, quote, anyone can find himself in a place
where somebody needs help, and more than once to the
main thing is to remember what makes you human.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
He's like, I'm fine with whatever kinds of rescues I
have to do. Chavarsh becomes such an important cultural figure
that during the twenty fourteen Winter Games in Sochi, he
was asked to carry the Olympic torch into the Kremlin.
And you might remember him doing it because on his
last leg of the journey, the flame kept going out

(01:08:32):
while he was running, and at one point he actually
stopped and asked the security guard to re light it
with the zippo. That's our boy, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
He's like, I can get things done.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
He's like, what's going on? But also I kind of
remember that guy and being like everybody else was looked
like a run, looked like whatever, and Chavarge looks like
older guy running. At that point, he was probably in
his sixties, I think, so today's Chavarge is around seventy
years old. He lives in Moscow, and while many years

(01:09:05):
have passed since he dove into the reservoir, he has
since become quite the entrepreneur. Shortly after moving to Moscow,
he opened a shoe repair shop. It did so well
that over the years he opened several more businesses including restaurants, clothing,
and grocery stores. Damn, I mean just doing it. Yeah,
And I wonder if it's because people are like that

(01:09:26):
guy's great. I want to get my shoes totally from
that guy. I trust that guy. Yeah, I'd like to
just go talk to him a little bit. In his
twenty fourteen grant Land piece, Carl Shrek asked about the
night that made Chavarge a legend, and what Chavarge says
about it is simply quote, there was no other choice.
I knew that it wouldn't be right if the world's

(01:09:46):
fastest underwater swimmer was there and didn't even try to
help nature and humanity would have judged me. God probably
would have judged me. And that's the story of Armenian
hero Chavarg Karrapetyan. Wow, damn, a good one. It's a
good one, right, Yeah, a disaster, a hero like Yeah,

(01:10:09):
that was good, a backup humility people that aren't doing
it for the glory. Yeah, his brother is he? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
I mean did he get any fucking cred It doesn't
sound like that, and the younger siblings never get the fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
You stay over there, yeah, I mean, just.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Stay over there and I'll hand you the people.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Good episode, a great episode, and a couple honking horays.
At the end, we're back with another honking horay, presented
by Hyundai.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
We're so excited to be doing your horays and in
the Ionic fives right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
What a combination you want to go for as sure
can't contain my excitement listening to you ladies talk about
TV weather people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Nor should you yet get out here and hooray it
up as a weather reino. I was beaming with pride.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
You ladies were with me through the worst breakup of
my life and now I'm getting married to the loml
love of mine.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
Oh and it's okay, good, good, hooray for science and love.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Felicia calms at and that's on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Congratulations Felicia. Congratulations Weatherinos. The weather Reinos are behind us.
Who no, okay, this says hooray from New Zealand. It's
an email. Dear MFM. Been a faithful listener since twenty sixteen,
which is the same year that I met my partner,
So you can never stop podcasting because that's how we
keep track of how long we've been together. My horay

(01:11:41):
is that I was misled about teenagers. I have two
of them coming up to eighteen and sixteen years old
in August, a boy and a girl, respectively. That I
love the bones of them as a given, but expecting
their teenage years to be sullen, smelly, ornery and unpleasant
was a complete misdirect. Instead, I find that I'm living
with two smarts, funny, curious, andsightful, independent, affectionate young people.

(01:12:04):
They are fiercely loyal, roast me daily in ways that
I can only admire, and constantly make me see things
from a different perspective. Their friends are a gas. I
get to listen to new music, so I've never said
kids these days don't know what music. It is a
phrase that indicates your readiness to be checked into a
home for the elderly, because because they get into retro

(01:12:24):
as well, I get to relive my own teenagehood by
listening to everything from guns n' Roses to TLC in
the car that was like MTV in nineteen ninety seven.
Of course, there are challenges, but I certainly did not
expect the sheer joy of having teenagers in my life
stay sexy and sing along to November Rain Rashni from

(01:12:48):
out a Roa, New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Wow, teenagers, someone cool stepping up and saying give teenagers
a break. Finally, finally, Okay, this is an email says hooray,
my daughter is completing her first week being back at
school after having a two kilogram tumor removed from her chest.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
She's six years old and is a murderino in the making.
She's been through two ten hour surgeries and has maintained
her sunny disposition with just the right amount of sass.
And that says to her brother when he couldn't find something, well,
how about looking for it with your eyes open?

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Oh damn. Hurrah to the.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Nhs UK and the amazing staff at the Bristol Children's Hospital.
From Rachel she her and B six ball of joy XO.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Stay strown B and to everybody at the Bristol Children's Hospital.
Man just doing the Lord's work. Okay, here's an email
and it just says I just turned in my final
capstone for my master's. I don't know what. Of course,
we don't know. I'm a teacher and I decided to
get my master's in film analysis to teach film analysis.

(01:14:02):
One day. My capstone paper maybe it's like the the
It's a thesis in a different country. That's what we'll say.
It is my capstone paper, which was sixty pages discussed
the psychology of horror films. While the paper was fun
to write, I'm so happy to be done with it.
Hooray for never having to write an academic paper again. Justine,

(01:14:25):
sixty pages, congratulations, Justin. You did it, you did, and
you did it without AI hopefully. I mean, we don't
know you, Justine, what are you doing? Okay, here's what
this one says. Hooray for Pedro Pascal.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
I mean, hey, it could just start and end there.
But seeing as the entire world has simultaneously fallen deeply
in love with this man, it feels important to note
the glimmer of hope I feel in so many of us,
all genders, devoting all of our parasocial desires to a
man who challenges every function of toxic masculinity in our culture.
If all of us can love man who is hell

(01:15:01):
bent on protecting our trans community, is resisting systems of
oppression on the daily, is constantly being lovingly snuggled by
other healthy, handsome men in his life, and is the
living embodiment of a human cinnamon role. I think that
speaks to the changing zeitgeist for how we define sexiness
and healthy masculinity. Yay for Pedro of Mescal being all

(01:15:24):
of our daddies, and hooray.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
For those arms.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Dang, stay sexy and keep loving the pedros of the
world at Lauren.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
Oscopy, Lauren, I think that the comparison that he is
a human cinnamon role is one of the most perfect
things I've ever heard. He is all of our daddies.
What big good are you? Oh my gosh, I'm a
Danish literally Danish. Okay, well I have a celebrity one too.
This was from the email, and it just says, I
just passed Michelle Buteaux on the street. I said nothing

(01:15:57):
because as a native New Yorker, I just let people people.
But I may have gazed at her longingly for half
a beat, and then it just says hooray period. And
then there's an asterisk at the end of I just
let people be people, And then down here the asterisk
says this rule does not apply to any and all
possible Pedro Pascal sightings. So good, And that was from

(01:16:21):
Amy Elizabeth Bravo. Oh my god, she's like the one
He's the one person. Yeah that She's like, I can
mob you. We're not going to break this rule for
Michelle Buteau, but we're definitely breaking it when that guy
rolls up. All Pedro Pascal bets are off. First you
smell a cinnamon and you're like, what is that? There's
someone nearby? Thank you guys for listening to these honking horays.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Thank you Hyundai for sponsoring these honking horays.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Thank you Hyundai, and thank you to Pedro Pascal. Especially,
thank you to all Sinnmon rolls everywhere. Stay sexy and
don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Today, Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Our editor is Aristotle os Vedo. This episode was mixed
by Leona Squalacci. Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite Murder.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
And now you can watch us on exactly Right's YouTube page.
While you're there, please like and subscribe. Good byebye,