September 18, 2025 • 33 mins
On today’s episode, Karen covers forensic sculptor Frank Bender, co-founder of the Vidocq Society.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstar,
That's Karen Kilgarriff.
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And we're going to do some podcasting at you.
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Get ready and write this down.
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Get ready with me to podcasts?
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A podcast, it's a get ready with me? And they
just put huge headphones on.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, and that's it and then just talk about themselves
for two hours. Do you know you have a new
I don't want to call it, like a new nervous
habit or a new what's the word, not twitch?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Like? Just say what it is? You keep going like this, Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
No, keep you keep putting your hand to the back
of your face and grabbing your own no, in your
pointer finger and middle finger, just a little, even doing
it for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I mean, I don't know what it is. How many
did I do it like a bunch on the last record?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
No, but I've noticed you doing it a few times
every time I see you.
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I just wanted to impress you.
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But what is it? I have no fucking It's like
I got I got your nose. But to yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It's how I comfort myself.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Why are you taking your nose? Why are you taking
your nose?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I mean, that's a crazy thing to hear about yourself,
probably right. Also, it's funny because being doing this podcast
on Video Nightmare, there was one video where they were
I can't remember what the the whole video is about
something else, but like they were using this thing that
was an outtake basically where I did this super weird
like upper body stretch before we started. Oh no, And
(01:47):
it was like funny. But at the same time, when
I watched it, I was like, it really sucks to
have to edit yourself, to have to give notes on
that's mine.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's a whole different thing. You shouldn't be watching you doing. Yeah,
you should get yourself banned.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
We're getting there, But that's really I'll make up a
new one. No, I like it.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I just like it. I wonder if it's.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Like a thinking thing.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It's certainly like a give me a moment thing. Yeah, hmmm,
two seconds please? But how like squeezing your your own nose?
Should I not have told you that? I mean, I
just I could stop noticing it now.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I would like to stop doing it for sure. So
that's fine with me. This is the thing when we
filmed this. When we do our show, our podcast, we
also are doing video, but often I'm working right up
until I walk down to do it, so I have
a real fast makeup problem. I also have this foundation
is too light for me. Oh well, I'll use it anyway. Problem.
(02:46):
So I think I'm also thinking that, like almost I'm
giving myself last second contact or some kind.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Of right, are you remembering your face is like.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It goes to here steps here. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Once I noticed it, I couldn't stop noticing. I'm like,
I should tell her.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
But.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Please tell me?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
But what for?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
It's the same as you to what end? You do
that thing where you go to do I know because
my hair always sticks.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
So I do this and you go me no, literally me.
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Because it always sticks out?
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Yeah, of course always this goddamn job, everything about it.
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No, this is the fucking best.
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Gratitude. Gottitude, gottitude.
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Also, just in time for spooky season.
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Hardy spooky season?
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Yeah, yeah, shit, Sorry, what's your costume going to be
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I bought a vintage shirt that is the color pattern
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I'm really jealous of that.
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She'll wear it on the show and then we can switch.
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Okay, I'll wear it the day that I have a
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The skeleton pin moves, and you have the joggers.
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It's not cool if you wear you're on merch.
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I'm going to tell you a story about a person
who is extremely good at one specific thing, and because
of that, he became an unlikely partner to investigators in
not only this country, but beyond. His work not only
helps catch fugitives, but it also gives many John and
Jane does their name back. He isn't a cop or
(07:30):
a forensic scientist. He's a fine artist whose work predates
the modern use of genetic genealogy. We've mentioned him on
the show back in episode twenty nine, which was spelled
episode twenty an. Oh, this is the story of forensic
sculptor Frank Bender.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh my god, Like I'm having flashbacks to my childhood
and watching unsolved mysteries, and I might recognize the bus
and the sculpture that was made of this missing person
or this skeleton that was and.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Maybe I could solve the case. Yes, is that what
we're talking about?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, you are being called as a seven year old
to please help the authorities.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Incredible. Yeah, and then yeah these I love these?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay great. So the main sources used in this story
today are two thousand and four Esquire article by Brendan
Vaughan entitled Man of the Month Frank Bender, and a
nineteen ninety five New York Times article by Karen Demasters
entitled Solving Crimes. Sculptor recreates faces of tragedy. And the
rest of the sources are in our show notes. So
(08:33):
we'll start with that New York Times article. They describe
Frank Bender as quote an elfin man with a quote
bald head, fierce gaze, and Van Dyke, which is Van
Dyke's are for the children, the formal name of a
little mustache beard combo that you've seen on many many
vape salesmen. Sometimes they call it a goatee, incorrect.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Because it mustache. Is there too?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yes, exactly. So all that's to say that Frank Bender
doesn't look like someone you'd find hanging around with the cops,
more like one of those guys that would be posted
up along the sind with an easel, you know, wearing
a little black beret. And that's why it's so strange
that in the late seventies, when he's thirty five years old,
he has this life changing moment at the Philadelphia Morgue.
(09:18):
So he's from Philly, he's born into a working class family,
and he's been making art since he was very young.
But when he gets exposed to the art world, he's
kind of put off by it. So when he graduates
high school, he actually turns down a scholarship to go
to the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts and instead he
joins the Navy. Wow yeah. But then when he gets out,
(09:40):
he comes back home to Philadelphia and he actually becomes
a professional photographer, but he also draws and he sculpts,
and he's very devoted to the practice, so much so
that when he wants to work on his figure drawing
or brush up on his anatomy drawing skills, he goes
and visits the Morgue.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So that's where he is on this fateful day in
the late seventies when the medical examiner brings him in
and shows him the body that they have that he
can use to practice and draw on. This is a yeah,
very intense, very cow yeah. But I mean, if you
think about it, like, there are a few places you
can actually go to really see human bodies like that.
(10:22):
So the medical examiner brings him in and shows him
the body they have, which is badly decomposed. It's a
woman who'd been shot in the head. She's completely unrecognizable,
so she has not been identified, and that means the
investigators kind of have no way to find out who
her murder is because they have no idea who she
is nowhere to start, when Frank Bender sees her body,
(10:45):
he actually says out loud in the moment, quote, I
know what she looks like. So when Frank revisits this
moment in interviews years later, he makes it sound like
he was kind of like in a trance or like
he was overcome by a powerful revelation, and he says
that those words, I know what she looks like just
sort of slipped out of his mouth.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Amazing. Yeah oooh.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So when the Emmy asks if he knows anything about forensics,
Frank responds, I don't even know what that word means.
But the Emmy is intrigued by the confidence that he
has shown about thinking he knows what she looks like.
So he tells Frank to go home and try to
create an image of what he thinks this Jane Doe
could have looked like in real life. So Frank actually
(11:30):
ends up going above and beyond. He ends up sculpting
an incredibly like life bust out of fiberglass, and then
he paints the bust by hand, adding eyes, lips, skin tone,
all the details he's seeing in his mind, and he says, quote,
I saw every feature of her face and how the
form of one part of her face flowed into all
(11:52):
the other forms.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And if you've been studying art your whole life, then
you paint people's faces, you know the structure so well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, and he's also getting a sense of things. You know.
He will later go on to like take in because
he doesn't always have a body, so it's very kind
of intuitive with him, but he's like he locks in
and kind of like tries to interpret what he can
as an artist. It's great. So in this situation, it
only takes him eight hours to finish this bust, and
(12:23):
when he's done, he's looking at the face of a
woman who's around sixty years old with a prominent nose
and a cleft chin. It's so lifelike that authorities decide
to photograph this bust and feature it in local newspapers,
and incredibly, it leads to this Jane Doe's identification. Holy shit,
it turns out to be sixty two year old Phoenix
(12:43):
native Anna Duval, who's gone missing after traveling to Philly
to meet a friend about a real estate investment opportunity there.
What's super weird is I went to high school with
a girl named Anna Duval, and she and her daughter
listened to this podcast, so I bet it was super
creepy for them to hear that. Wow, Hi, guys, that's
so weird you're in this story with us. That friend,
(13:06):
quote unquote is a man named John Martini, and he'd
already scammed Anna out of about twenty five thousand dollars
and lured her to Philadelphia under the pretense of a
sham real estate deal, and when she gets to Philadelphia,
he shoots her.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Jesus.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Years later, he is charged with Anna's murder, but by
that time he's already incarcerated for committing two other unrelated homicides.
So he is wow, basically kind of a serial killer.
But longer term, more importantly, Frank Bender's sculpture gives Anna
Duval her name back. So this experience is incredibly meaningful
(13:45):
for Frank. As opposed to the superficiality and the elitism
of the art scene, this work makes him feel like
his art actually made a positive impact in someone's life.
And he'll later say, quote, when I stumbled upon this
forensic venture, I said, that's my turf, That's where I belong.
This isn't going to hang on gallery walls. I feel
right about this. This is where I'm going to put
(14:06):
my energy and I can give back to the people
instead of to art collectors.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Amazing, It's pretty cool. I love it.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Of course, when other investigators find out about the success
of this bust, they enlist Frank's help on their cases.
He continues creating busts for the John and Jane does
in the city and around the country, and he becomes
particularly skilled at creating lifelike sculptures despite having little to
work from. So in the best case scenario, Frank would
(14:37):
be working from a skull that he could actually handle directly.
As he makes these busts, so when that's the case,
he basically works the clay over the skull to create
a mold, and then he removes the skull and he
pours plaster into that clay, and then he lets that set,
and then he stands and shapes and paints the bust
(14:58):
while referring back to the skull for any hints of
the person's unique facial features. Wow, yeah, he'll later tell
people magazine quote, I just see the image in my head.
Then I let my fingers do the sculpting. But usually
Frank has nothing more than a picture of the unidentified
person's remains, or sometimes only a report from an anthropologist
(15:19):
suggesting what their sex, age and race could be. Sometimes
he has much much less, like a few strands of hair.
So what Frank does is equal parts creativity and science.
And he's constantly referencing medical information and anatomy text to
make sure that his busts are as realistic as possible.
But of course he's also using his technical art skills,
(15:41):
his intuition, and an unwavering dedication to reanimating the faces
of the unidentified and just love that idea, like he
found his lane, like in this weird way.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I hate the art worlds, but I still want to
do art, and here's.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
A way that like and I see it, which is
a gift.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So this is how Frank eventually gets the nickname quote
the recomposer of the Decomposed. So he's clearly a gifted artist,
and the more busts he creates, the more apparent his
investigative and profiling skills become. He has an amazing talent
for picking up tiny bits of information about a person,
like a piece of evidence found near a crime scene,
(16:22):
or the attributes of their bones, and then using that
to inform the creations that he makes and to the
investigators that he works with, it feels almost supernatural. Reporter
Brendan Vaughan writes in his Esquire piece on Frank that quote.
When you ask people in law enforcement to explain how
Frank Bender does what he does, they speak of his
(16:44):
intense interest in human nature. They mention his compassion for
the victims. They point to his talent as a fine artist,
his uncanny ability to read bones for clues. But really
the essence of what they're saying is this, Frank Bender
has a sixth sense. Yeah, here's one example of that
sixth sense in practice. In nineteen eighty, Frank is asked
(17:06):
to create a bust for an unidentified victim in a
town called Slatington, Pennsylvania. So the remains were found by
a hunter and they're determined to have been deteriorating outside
for nineteen months, So Frank has very little to go
off of, but he begins by analyzing the victim's skull
and he builds a profile, and this analysis leads him
(17:27):
to think that this person had an overbite and wavy
brown hair, and then he focuses on a piece of
evidence that was found near the body, a single glasses lens.
Frank finds a pair of brown frames that fit this
specific lens to place on his bust. When it's completed,
and when an image of this bust is circulated in newspapers,
(17:48):
a man calls the police and identifies the woman as
his twenty three year old daughter, Linda Keys. Holy shit,
she's been missing for more than a year. Though Linda's
cause of death is never determin and she's no longer
a Jane Doe, and of course her family has a
little bit of relief. Just a few years later, in
nineteen eighty seven, a group of kids discover the body
(18:11):
of a young woman behind a Philadelphia high school.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
God.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So soon Frank is working to identify her. And this
is another case where the body is very decomposed, so
he uses the evidence that's available to conjure up her face.
He'll later tell the Toronto Star that quote she was
wearing a ship and shore blouse, a nicely pleated blouse,
not a blouse someone her age would wear out in
that neighborhood. To me, it told me she was looking
(18:36):
for a way out. She was looking for a better life.
So I had her looking up for hope.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean he's interpreting anything he can, but also like
putting it together with kind of logical steps.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So it's not like fanciful.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, it's like how do people really work?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So a year later, in nineteen eighty eight, a woman
sees this bust and recognizes it is her eighteen year
old niece, Rosella Atkinson, who'd been missing for more than
a year after last being seen at a local bar.
She left behind a devastated family and her beloved infant daughter.
Rosella's aunt will say that one of the most spot
on features of Frank's bust is how Rosella is holding
(19:18):
her head up in that hopeful way, which is exactly
how she held herself in real life. Wow, that's crazy,
I know, but in tracks it's just like it is
logic based. Several years after Rosella's ideed her killer, a
man named Brian Hall finally comes forward and confesses. He
claims that back in nineteen eighty seven, they'd left that
(19:40):
bar together hooked up, and then he realizes that he's
missing money. He accuses her of stealing it from him.
When she tells him, you're wrong, I did not steal it,
he goes into a fit of rage and strangles her
to death and then hides her body. So now because
of Frank's work, Rosella's murderer will face justice, and of
course the family is no longer wondering what happened to
(20:03):
their daughter and their mother. But Frank's most famous bust
is not a Jane or a John Doe case. Instead,
it's a very famous fugitive case that I covered on
episode twenty nine, So I'll just recap it really quick.
And also we've done a rewind recently about this, so
now we're doing kind of inception level podcasting, where we're
(20:24):
folding in a podcast upon a podcast. So in nineteen
eighty nine, Frank is asked to recreate a bust of
the famous family annihilator and fugitive John List. John List
had been on the run for eighteen years after murdering
his entire family in New Jersey. I think that might be,
in reflection now, my favorite murder. Yeah, because it's it
(20:49):
has everything everything. There's the ironic ending of the Tiffany
lamp or the Tiffany shade or whatever that was, the
skylight that costs that was worth so much money, that
would have gotten him out of debt, all the things.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And I'm just like going and living a normal life,
like you hadn't done anything when you were like just
an evil person.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, you killed three of your children and your mother
and your.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Wife and then getting fucking caught this.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Way, this way by this man. It's so good. Okay.
So he's been on the run for eighteen years after
murdering his entire family in New Jersey, and the only
thing Frank has to work on when the authorities come
to him is decades old photographs and some bits of
information about John's life and his personality that have been
collected over the years.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Because he cut himself out of all the photos at home, right,
that's right, smartly.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, purposely.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, he knew what he was, raced any trace of
what he would look like.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right, So they probably had to go scrape up some pictures.
But they're all like almost twenty years old.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So Frank gets to work, relying on his vivid imagination
to guesstimate how John List could have aged over the
last twenty years. He looks at the old photos and
adds heavy jowls, removes some hair, then dresses his bust
in a suit and tie because, as Frank puts it,
quote the guy wore a suit and tie when he
mowed the lawn.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Frank even throws on a pair of thick, black rimmed
glasses because quote, he would want to look more astute,
more in control than he really was.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Frank comes to this conclusion while consulting with his friend,
criminal psychologist doctor Richard D. Walter. The two spend several
days walking around Philadelphia talking about what John List might
be like today.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
It's just profiling. Yeah, so interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah. So, in May of nineteen eighty nine, Frank completes
this bust of John List and it's featured in an
episode of America's Most Wanted and his fate would have it.
A woman in Richmond, Virginia is watching that night and
she thinks that it looks a lot like her neighbor,
Robert Clark. Robert is an accountant who wears very thick
rimmed glasses, so she calls the police. A couple days later,
(23:00):
they visit the Clark home and when they fingerprint him,
Robert Clark is quickly exposed as wanted murderer John List.
He's arrested, he's given five life sentences, and that's largely
thanks to Frank Bender's uncanny bust. I mean so incredible,
down to the fucking glasses.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
That he didn't even need that, like he put on
him for effect. Yeah, and it was real and true
because of it.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Because also it's kind of like if you pay attention
to people, you get to know people. There's like certain
amount of types of people in the world, and it's like,
this is the kind of guy who would want people
to think he's like intelligent and successful, big glasses. Yeah, Yeah,
it's so good. It turns out listed moved to Virginia
(23:48):
and remarried. And it also turns out List was watching
America's Most Wanted that same night. Remember that detail, right, and.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
His wife was sitting next to him, right.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And he's just like watching Oh, johns away in prison
in two thousand and eight. But he's not the only
wanted man who Frank helped track down just a name
of few. His busts are also credited with helping investigators
track down New York mob boss Alphonse Persecco and the
leader of a violent outlaw motorcycle game, the Warlocks, named
(24:18):
Bobby nas Wow. So as passionate as Frank Bender is
about forensic sculpture, it's not his livelihood. Frank only makes
between like twelve hundred and seventeen hundred dollars a bust,
and he only makes two or three a year, And
the restraint here seems to be his choice. As you
might have guessed, Frank isn't exactly chasing wealth. That's not
(24:39):
his style. He basically pays his bills doing odd jobs
like working on a tugboat and the occasional commission here.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
My god, what a life.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's almost like he's one of those people. It's like
I want to be out and about among the people totally,
and that's why he can do that job so well.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I want to work on a tug boat.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah you can.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
You think there are cats? I've bet those cats on
a tugboat.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
To keep the rats away? Or would the or would
the Oh no, they don't fish off a tugboat. Totally
different job. If you captain a tugboat, please write in
then tell us how many cats are on.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
If you're a tugboat cat, please write in at my
favorite Murder at Gmail and tell us what it's like.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yah ma'am Mayamah, Yeah, Ma'amamiah. In his mind, it's his
well intended investigative work that feels meaningful. So in nineteen
ninety he co establishes the v Doc Society, made up
of detectives and profilers, forensic experts, pathologists, and other professionals
who regularly meet with the hopes of cracking cold cases.
(25:39):
I didn't realize that, but he basically is one of
the founding members.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Amazing, so good.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
We've also talked about this group on the show in
episode I think you talked about them.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Right, probably cold cases? Probably?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, probably it was in episode three sixty two, a
generous number of apples, your favorite where Oh yes, you
talked about Sorry, it's right in the paragraphic I knew.
I love to read this and go over it and
then just be like casual making conversation. It was when
you covered Pennsylvania's boy in the box case.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Right, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So for years there was a boy and the v
DOC Society finally gave him his name back just a
few years ago, in twenty twenty two. He was four
year old Joseph august Zarelli. And this information is a
huge break in the still unsolved case of his death.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, that's one of those classic ones that the
older gets, the less likely it would seem that he
would ever be identified. And the fact that he was
is just incredible. V docs on it amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
So as accomplished as Frank Bender is as an artist
and an unlikely investigator, it's also worth noting that he
is a big character himself. His eccentricity is delightfully captured
in the Esquire article that we sourced earlier, the one
by Brendan Vaughan, and he writes, quote, Frank Bender is
a spooky dude, not only because he knows what your
(27:01):
skull looks like. It's spooky how his answering machine invites
you to leave a message for the recomposer of the decomposed,
And it's a little spooky how he returns your call
from his claw foot bathtub. It's spooky how he talks,
and it's even spooky how he listens. But the spookiest
thing about Frank Bender is also the thing that's made
him a legend in the field of law enforcement. Frank
(27:22):
Bender sees dead people.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
That is so, I have chills. It's amazing, it's incredible.
I'm so glad you're telling this.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Also, like what if this is untapped in other people
at like totally that we could be helping each other
with these cold cases and these horrible mysteries.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
You would never know unless you're like walked into aim more.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, new art right.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So Frank doesn't seem to mind that these things get
right ups or attention, And that's a good thing, because
he gets a lot of attention for it. He's been
covered by sixty minutes forensic files, forty eight hours written
up in GQ, in the New York Times, and there's
been an indie documentary made about him, called Recomposer of
the Decomposed. He's been featured on TV shows as far
(28:07):
away as Japan and Germany, presumably thanks to his willingness
to travel. He's no stranger to flying somewhere far away
and collaborating with foreign investigators. So the assignments, the media
coverage the successful identification seem to feed Frank's thirst for
more investigative work. He continues accepting commissions and gets very
(28:28):
attached to the cases that he works on, hoping that
he can push them toward a resolution. Ted Botha, who
wrote a book about Frank, even says quote, He's a
fighter for justice. He's almost like a little Captain America
or something. Wow, so sweet. In two thousand and nine,
Frank is diagnosed with cancer at the same time as
(28:49):
his wife Jan and she passes before him. Yeah, his
doctor will later tell People magazine quote, I'm completely baffled
as to how he has remained so functional through what
must be an unimaginable degree of pain. That is courage.
But Frank is quite matter of fact about his mesothelioma diagnosis.
(29:11):
Just a year after learning about it. In twenty ten,
he tells a reporter quote. I'm used to being surrounded
by death. I've done everything I ever wanted to do.
I drove a race car, I've skydived, I've helped identify
a lot of people, including fugitives on the most wanted this.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, I bet like being around death that much makes
you a little bit more aware of the important things
in life.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yes, not waste time.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, your perspective is you'd think our perspective would be
so much better.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Cars been around a lot of anxiety. Yeah, no, I
think so. I think I pay attention more.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I think, don't you like, oh, over these last ten years, Yeah,
I think there's a lot of lessons and a lot
of kind of awareness and.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
A lot of being grateful because the fact that it's
not us. Yeah, the grace of God, Thank fucking God.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
There's no reason, and it's that kind of thing of
like we shouldn't live in fear. Yeah, the idea of
living in fear robs you completely, and there's no reason
for it, and there's a lot of reason for it.
There's reason for it, but most people are good. So
by this point, Frank has been working with investigators for
around thirty years since that very first bust he created
(30:23):
to identify and a duval He's actually since that time,
it's estimated he's created about forty more. Wow, he's done
it forty times. So many he doesn't keep an official tally,
so that's why it's just an estimation. Over the years,
Frank has proven he's well worth the it's roughly seventeen
hundred dollars commission that he accepts for each sculpture he makes.
(30:45):
It's hard to get an exact measure of how many
cases he has helped solve, but ABC News has reported
that he has an eighty five percent success.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Right, Holy shit. I know he hate it, but I'd
love to see a museum exhibit of all the busts.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And the whole story kind of rolled out of like cause,
you know, when you do art, in whatever way you
do it, it is about inspiration. It's just that his
inspiration is very odd and specific and incredibly helpful and meaningful.
The Philadelphia Inquirer, meanwhile, once reported that Frank's busts have
(31:21):
led to breaks in almost every single one of the
cases he's worked. Wow, that's wild. The New York Times
is a bit more modest, but still impressive. Putting his
success rate at somewhere around forty percent on a cold case.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
That's the thing, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
In twenty eleven, Frank Bender succumbs to cancer at age seventy,
as The New York Times reported in his obituary quote.
Interviewers are often asked mister Bender whether his life among
the dead gave him nightmares. Yes, he replied, but not
in the way you think. For years, he explained, his
dreams had been peopled by the dead and sinister men.
(32:01):
The sinister men invariably attacked him, mister Bender said, and
whenever they did, the unnamed dead rose up in his defense.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And that's the story of the late and legendary forensic
sculptor Frank Bender.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
In incredible job. But Frank Bender, so good. I'm so
glad you did that.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Isn't that a good one? Yeah, because you assume, like
anytime when we did that story about John List, or
anytime you think about it, you're.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Just like, oh, that's a thing that the FBI developed,
right and moving on right, Yeah, Yeah, it's an true artist. Yeah,
and like not pursuing that on purpose, and it's just
kind of happening to you. It's almost like, you know, fate.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, it's completely fate. He gets a vision of what
this woman who's been shocked in that head looks like.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh my god, incredible job. Thank you, perfect start to
spooky season. Right, Jesus, we've done it.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
We did it again. Look, we just keep doing it
and we won't stop until you take our microphones away.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Never got damn in closing. We just like to stay,
stay sexy and don't get murdered.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Good goodbye, Elvis, Do you want to cookie?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
This has been an exactly Right production.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Our editor is Aristotle oce Vedo.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan, and Ali Elkin.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Email your homecouns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
And now you can watch us on exactly Right's YouTube page.
While you're there, please like and subscribe.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Goodbybeye
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstar,
That's Karen Kilgarriff.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
And we're going to do some podcasting at you.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I hope you're ready for podcasting in your rear. In
your rear, we're going to show you how it's done.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Get ready and write this down.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Get ready with me to podcasts?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
A podcast, it's a get ready with me? And they
just put huge headphones on.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, and that's it and then just talk about themselves
for two hours. Do you know you have a new
I don't want to call it, like a new nervous
habit or a new what's the word, not twitch?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Like? Just say what it is? You keep going like this, Oh.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
No, keep you keep putting your hand to the back
of your face and grabbing your own no, in your
pointer finger and middle finger, just a little, even doing
it for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I mean, I don't know what it is. How many
did I do it like a bunch on the last record?
Speaker 1 (01:10):
No, but I've noticed you doing it a few times
every time I see you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I just wanted to impress you.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
But what is it? I have no fucking It's like
I got I got your nose. But to yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It's how I comfort myself.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Why are you taking your nose? Why are you taking
your nose?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I mean, that's a crazy thing to hear about yourself,
probably right. Also, it's funny because being doing this podcast
on Video Nightmare, there was one video where they were
I can't remember what the the whole video is about
something else, but like they were using this thing that
was an outtake basically where I did this super weird
like upper body stretch before we started. Oh no, And
(01:47):
it was like funny. But at the same time, when
I watched it, I was like, it really sucks to
have to edit yourself, to have to give notes on
that's mine.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's a whole different thing. You shouldn't be watching you doing. Yeah,
you should get yourself banned.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
We're getting there, But that's really I'll make up a
new one. No, I like it.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I just like it. I wonder if it's.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Like a thinking thing.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It's certainly like a give me a moment thing. Yeah, hmmm,
two seconds please? But how like squeezing your your own nose?
Should I not have told you that? I mean, I
just I could stop noticing it now.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I would like to stop doing it for sure. So
that's fine with me. This is the thing when we
filmed this. When we do our show, our podcast, we
also are doing video, but often I'm working right up
until I walk down to do it, so I have
a real fast makeup problem. I also have this foundation
is too light for me. Oh well, I'll use it anyway. Problem.
(02:46):
So I think I'm also thinking that, like almost I'm
giving myself last second contact or some kind.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Of right, are you remembering your face is like.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It goes to here steps here. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Once I noticed it, I couldn't stop noticing. I'm like,
I should tell her.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
But.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Please tell me?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
But what for?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
It's the same as you to what end? You do
that thing where you go to do I know because
my hair always sticks.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
So I do this and you go me no, literally me.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Because it always sticks out?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, of course always this goddamn job, everything about it.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
No, this is the fucking best.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Gratitude. Gottitude, gottitude.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Thank you for coming to our live shows. We're having
so much fun.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We are so happy to see you again.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We could rad merch too.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Oh the merch at the live shows is people are
talking about it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I mean, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's so cool. I know, it's Daphne Sabine.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
She's an incredible artist and murderino and she's been designing
our tour posters and every city has its own version
of the tour poster based on things from that city
or state, so like flowers and animals and like, I mean,
it's just so thoughtful and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's so great. And also it's it's like not the
most typical, so it's like just because it's Pasadena doesn't
mean it's like the gold Doser wherever. But it's just
really smart and really cool, and I think people were
super excited in Denver to see, like how original it is.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So good, it's great.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Speaking of our tour, yeah, we still have some limited
tickets in certain cities, including some gold VIP packages which
come with an exclusive merch bundle and one of those
tour posters signed by us.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
That's us.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
That's us.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So grab your tickets now at my Favorite Murder dot
com slash live.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And we're posting all the tour fund from backstage picks
to audience shout outs, So please remember to follow my
Favorite Murder on Instagram and of course over on TikTok
so you don't miss any.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Of it, that's right, and hashtag your own photos with
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Speaker 2 (04:48):
Also, you can head over to the exactly Right YouTube
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only from the show My Favorite Murder, but also from
Ghosted by rous hernandez I Said No Gifts, Buried Bones
and more.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
So go to YouTube dot com slash exactly Right Media
and please subscribe. Please we appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Also, just in time for spooky season.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Hardy spooky season?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, yeah, shit, Sorry, what's your costume going to be
this year?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I bought a vintage shirt that is the color pattern
of candy corn, so I don't done and done. I
fucking found it and it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I'm really jealous of that.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
She'll wear it on the show and then we can switch.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Okay, I'll wear it the day that I have a
skeleton dress. Right, we'll do that.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
So just in time for spooky season, make your plants too.
We got new and restocked Halloween merch in the Exactly
Right store.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
There's a bunch of brand new Mothmen stuff, which we
of course love. From MFM Animated. There's a Mothman unisex
T shirt, the return of the Mothman's zip front hoodie,
the Mothman Cooozy business one, and then Skeleton Joggers and
the skeleton pin that moves.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
The skeleton pin moves, and you have the joggers.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, and of course all of those designs are by
the great Nick Terry. I mean, we love this man.
You've seen the MFM animated's on YouTube. If you haven't,
please go watch them. They're pretty great, incredible. They're a
lot like this, but they move, they're articulated. I have
to admit something. Georgia proudly wears our merch everywhere she goes.
Not me, though, I'm a very Kurt Cobain yelling at
(06:17):
me all the time. You know, be cool.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
It's not cool if you wear you're on merch.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah exactly. But I was in Nicole's office one day
and she had these skeleton sweatpants sitting there and I
was like, I need those skeleton sweatpants, and she gave
them to me. I have worn them in public so
many times because they're so cozy that I don't care
that I look like a cornball. Yeah, no, whatever way
I'm judging myself.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I love it. It's good.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I think it's good to support your school and your
podcast also.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
But just know that when Nicole picks the blanks for
our merch, she is going for the best of the best.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Go to exactly the right store dot com to grab
your stuff today today, all right, your solo, Yes, sit back, Yeah,
just realize, thank you God, damn it.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'm going to tell you a story about a person
who is extremely good at one specific thing, and because
of that, he became an unlikely partner to investigators in
not only this country, but beyond. His work not only
helps catch fugitives, but it also gives many John and
Jane does their name back. He isn't a cop or
(07:30):
a forensic scientist. He's a fine artist whose work predates
the modern use of genetic genealogy. We've mentioned him on
the show back in episode twenty nine, which was spelled
episode twenty an. Oh, this is the story of forensic
sculptor Frank Bender.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh my god, Like I'm having flashbacks to my childhood
and watching unsolved mysteries, and I might recognize the bus
and the sculpture that was made of this missing person
or this skeleton that was and.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Maybe I could solve the case. Yes, is that what
we're talking about?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, you are being called as a seven year old
to please help the authorities.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Incredible. Yeah, and then yeah these I love these?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Okay great. So the main sources used in this story
today are two thousand and four Esquire article by Brendan
Vaughan entitled Man of the Month Frank Bender, and a
nineteen ninety five New York Times article by Karen Demasters
entitled Solving Crimes. Sculptor recreates faces of tragedy. And the
rest of the sources are in our show notes. So
(08:33):
we'll start with that New York Times article. They describe
Frank Bender as quote an elfin man with a quote
bald head, fierce gaze, and Van Dyke, which is Van
Dyke's are for the children, the formal name of a
little mustache beard combo that you've seen on many many
vape salesmen. Sometimes they call it a goatee, incorrect.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Because it mustache. Is there too?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yes, exactly. So all that's to say that Frank Bender
doesn't look like someone you'd find hanging around with the cops,
more like one of those guys that would be posted
up along the sind with an easel, you know, wearing
a little black beret. And that's why it's so strange
that in the late seventies, when he's thirty five years old,
he has this life changing moment at the Philadelphia Morgue.
(09:18):
So he's from Philly, he's born into a working class family,
and he's been making art since he was very young.
But when he gets exposed to the art world, he's
kind of put off by it. So when he graduates
high school, he actually turns down a scholarship to go
to the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts and instead he
joins the Navy. Wow yeah. But then when he gets out,
(09:40):
he comes back home to Philadelphia and he actually becomes
a professional photographer, but he also draws and he sculpts,
and he's very devoted to the practice, so much so
that when he wants to work on his figure drawing
or brush up on his anatomy drawing skills, he goes
and visits the Morgue.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Wow yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
So that's where he is on this fateful day in
the late seventies when the medical examiner brings him in
and shows him the body that they have that he
can use to practice and draw on. This is a yeah,
very intense, very cow yeah. But I mean, if you
think about it, like, there are a few places you
can actually go to really see human bodies like that.
(10:22):
So the medical examiner brings him in and shows him
the body they have, which is badly decomposed. It's a
woman who'd been shot in the head. She's completely unrecognizable,
so she has not been identified, and that means the
investigators kind of have no way to find out who
her murder is because they have no idea who she
is nowhere to start, when Frank Bender sees her body,
(10:45):
he actually says out loud in the moment, quote, I
know what she looks like. So when Frank revisits this
moment in interviews years later, he makes it sound like
he was kind of like in a trance or like
he was overcome by a powerful revelation, and he says
that those words, I know what she looks like just
sort of slipped out of his mouth.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Amazing. Yeah oooh.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So when the Emmy asks if he knows anything about forensics,
Frank responds, I don't even know what that word means.
But the Emmy is intrigued by the confidence that he
has shown about thinking he knows what she looks like.
So he tells Frank to go home and try to
create an image of what he thinks this Jane Doe
could have looked like in real life. So Frank actually
(11:30):
ends up going above and beyond. He ends up sculpting
an incredibly like life bust out of fiberglass, and then
he paints the bust by hand, adding eyes, lips, skin tone,
all the details he's seeing in his mind, and he says, quote,
I saw every feature of her face and how the
form of one part of her face flowed into all
(11:52):
the other forms.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And if you've been studying art your whole life, then
you paint people's faces, you know the structure so well.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, and he's also getting a sense of things. You know.
He will later go on to like take in because
he doesn't always have a body, so it's very kind
of intuitive with him, but he's like he locks in
and kind of like tries to interpret what he can
as an artist. It's great. So in this situation, it
only takes him eight hours to finish this bust, and
(12:23):
when he's done, he's looking at the face of a
woman who's around sixty years old with a prominent nose
and a cleft chin. It's so lifelike that authorities decide
to photograph this bust and feature it in local newspapers,
and incredibly, it leads to this Jane Doe's identification. Holy shit,
it turns out to be sixty two year old Phoenix
(12:43):
native Anna Duval, who's gone missing after traveling to Philly
to meet a friend about a real estate investment opportunity there.
What's super weird is I went to high school with
a girl named Anna Duval, and she and her daughter
listened to this podcast, so I bet it was super
creepy for them to hear that. Wow, Hi, guys, that's
so weird you're in this story with us. That friend,
(13:06):
quote unquote is a man named John Martini, and he'd
already scammed Anna out of about twenty five thousand dollars
and lured her to Philadelphia under the pretense of a
sham real estate deal, and when she gets to Philadelphia,
he shoots her.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Jesus.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Years later, he is charged with Anna's murder, but by
that time he's already incarcerated for committing two other unrelated homicides.
So he is wow, basically kind of a serial killer.
But longer term, more importantly, Frank Bender's sculpture gives Anna
Duval her name back. So this experience is incredibly meaningful
(13:45):
for Frank. As opposed to the superficiality and the elitism
of the art scene, this work makes him feel like
his art actually made a positive impact in someone's life.
And he'll later say, quote, when I stumbled upon this
forensic venture, I said, that's my turf, That's where I belong.
This isn't going to hang on gallery walls. I feel
right about this. This is where I'm going to put
(14:06):
my energy and I can give back to the people
instead of to art collectors.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Amazing, It's pretty cool. I love it.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Of course, when other investigators find out about the success
of this bust, they enlist Frank's help on their cases.
He continues creating busts for the John and Jane does
in the city and around the country, and he becomes
particularly skilled at creating lifelike sculptures despite having little to
work from. So in the best case scenario, Frank would
(14:37):
be working from a skull that he could actually handle directly.
As he makes these busts, so when that's the case,
he basically works the clay over the skull to create
a mold, and then he removes the skull and he
pours plaster into that clay, and then he lets that set,
and then he stands and shapes and paints the bust
(14:58):
while referring back to the skull for any hints of
the person's unique facial features. Wow, yeah, he'll later tell
people magazine quote, I just see the image in my head.
Then I let my fingers do the sculpting. But usually
Frank has nothing more than a picture of the unidentified
person's remains, or sometimes only a report from an anthropologist
(15:19):
suggesting what their sex, age and race could be. Sometimes
he has much much less, like a few strands of hair.
So what Frank does is equal parts creativity and science.
And he's constantly referencing medical information and anatomy text to
make sure that his busts are as realistic as possible.
But of course he's also using his technical art skills,
(15:41):
his intuition, and an unwavering dedication to reanimating the faces
of the unidentified and just love that idea, like he
found his lane, like in this weird way.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
I hate the art worlds, but I still want to
do art, and here's.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
A way that like and I see it, which is
a gift.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
So this is how Frank eventually gets the nickname quote
the recomposer of the Decomposed. So he's clearly a gifted artist,
and the more busts he creates, the more apparent his
investigative and profiling skills become. He has an amazing talent
for picking up tiny bits of information about a person,
like a piece of evidence found near a crime scene,
(16:22):
or the attributes of their bones, and then using that
to inform the creations that he makes and to the
investigators that he works with, it feels almost supernatural. Reporter
Brendan Vaughan writes in his Esquire piece on Frank that quote.
When you ask people in law enforcement to explain how
Frank Bender does what he does, they speak of his
(16:44):
intense interest in human nature. They mention his compassion for
the victims. They point to his talent as a fine artist,
his uncanny ability to read bones for clues. But really
the essence of what they're saying is this, Frank Bender
has a sixth sense. Yeah, here's one example of that
sixth sense in practice. In nineteen eighty, Frank is asked
(17:06):
to create a bust for an unidentified victim in a
town called Slatington, Pennsylvania. So the remains were found by
a hunter and they're determined to have been deteriorating outside
for nineteen months, So Frank has very little to go
off of, but he begins by analyzing the victim's skull
and he builds a profile, and this analysis leads him
(17:27):
to think that this person had an overbite and wavy
brown hair, and then he focuses on a piece of
evidence that was found near the body, a single glasses lens.
Frank finds a pair of brown frames that fit this
specific lens to place on his bust. When it's completed,
and when an image of this bust is circulated in newspapers,
(17:48):
a man calls the police and identifies the woman as
his twenty three year old daughter, Linda Keys. Holy shit,
she's been missing for more than a year. Though Linda's
cause of death is never determin and she's no longer
a Jane Doe, and of course her family has a
little bit of relief. Just a few years later, in
nineteen eighty seven, a group of kids discover the body
(18:11):
of a young woman behind a Philadelphia high school.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
God.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So soon Frank is working to identify her. And this
is another case where the body is very decomposed, so
he uses the evidence that's available to conjure up her face.
He'll later tell the Toronto Star that quote she was
wearing a ship and shore blouse, a nicely pleated blouse,
not a blouse someone her age would wear out in
that neighborhood. To me, it told me she was looking
(18:36):
for a way out. She was looking for a better life.
So I had her looking up for hope.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean he's interpreting anything he can, but also like
putting it together with kind of logical steps.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So it's not like fanciful.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, it's like how do people really work?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So a year later, in nineteen eighty eight, a woman
sees this bust and recognizes it is her eighteen year
old niece, Rosella Atkinson, who'd been missing for more than
a year after last being seen at a local bar.
She left behind a devastated family and her beloved infant daughter.
Rosella's aunt will say that one of the most spot
on features of Frank's bust is how Rosella is holding
(19:18):
her head up in that hopeful way, which is exactly
how she held herself in real life. Wow, that's crazy,
I know, but in tracks it's just like it is
logic based. Several years after Rosella's ideed her killer, a
man named Brian Hall finally comes forward and confesses. He
claims that back in nineteen eighty seven, they'd left that
(19:40):
bar together hooked up, and then he realizes that he's
missing money. He accuses her of stealing it from him.
When she tells him, you're wrong, I did not steal it,
he goes into a fit of rage and strangles her
to death and then hides her body. So now because
of Frank's work, Rosella's murderer will face justice, and of
course the family is no longer wondering what happened to
(20:03):
their daughter and their mother. But Frank's most famous bust
is not a Jane or a John Doe case. Instead,
it's a very famous fugitive case that I covered on
episode twenty nine, So I'll just recap it really quick.
And also we've done a rewind recently about this, so
now we're doing kind of inception level podcasting, where we're
(20:24):
folding in a podcast upon a podcast. So in nineteen
eighty nine, Frank is asked to recreate a bust of
the famous family annihilator and fugitive John List. John List
had been on the run for eighteen years after murdering
his entire family in New Jersey. I think that might be,
in reflection now, my favorite murder. Yeah, because it's it
(20:49):
has everything everything. There's the ironic ending of the Tiffany
lamp or the Tiffany shade or whatever that was, the
skylight that costs that was worth so much money, that
would have gotten him out of debt, all the things.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
And I'm just like going and living a normal life,
like you hadn't done anything when you were like just
an evil person.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, you killed three of your children and your mother
and your.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Wife and then getting fucking caught this.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Way, this way by this man. It's so good. Okay.
So he's been on the run for eighteen years after
murdering his entire family in New Jersey, and the only
thing Frank has to work on when the authorities come
to him is decades old photographs and some bits of
information about John's life and his personality that have been
collected over the years.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Because he cut himself out of all the photos at home, right,
that's right, smartly.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, purposely.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah, he knew what he was, raced any trace of
what he would look like.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Right, So they probably had to go scrape up some pictures.
But they're all like almost twenty years old.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
So Frank gets to work, relying on his vivid imagination
to guesstimate how John List could have aged over the
last twenty years. He looks at the old photos and
adds heavy jowls, removes some hair, then dresses his bust
in a suit and tie because, as Frank puts it,
quote the guy wore a suit and tie when he
mowed the lawn.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Frank even throws on a pair of thick, black rimmed
glasses because quote, he would want to look more astute,
more in control than he really was.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Frank comes to this conclusion while consulting with his friend,
criminal psychologist doctor Richard D. Walter. The two spend several
days walking around Philadelphia talking about what John List might
be like today.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
It's just profiling. Yeah, so interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah. So, in May of nineteen eighty nine, Frank completes
this bust of John List and it's featured in an
episode of America's Most Wanted and his fate would have it.
A woman in Richmond, Virginia is watching that night and
she thinks that it looks a lot like her neighbor,
Robert Clark. Robert is an accountant who wears very thick
rimmed glasses, so she calls the police. A couple days later,
(23:00):
they visit the Clark home and when they fingerprint him,
Robert Clark is quickly exposed as wanted murderer John List.
He's arrested, he's given five life sentences, and that's largely
thanks to Frank Bender's uncanny bust. I mean so incredible,
down to the fucking glasses.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
That he didn't even need that, like he put on
him for effect. Yeah, and it was real and true
because of it.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Because also it's kind of like if you pay attention
to people, you get to know people. There's like certain
amount of types of people in the world, and it's like,
this is the kind of guy who would want people
to think he's like intelligent and successful, big glasses. Yeah, Yeah,
it's so good. It turns out listed moved to Virginia
(23:48):
and remarried. And it also turns out List was watching
America's Most Wanted that same night. Remember that detail, right, and.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
His wife was sitting next to him, right.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
And he's just like watching Oh, johns away in prison
in two thousand and eight. But he's not the only
wanted man who Frank helped track down just a name
of few. His busts are also credited with helping investigators
track down New York mob boss Alphonse Persecco and the
leader of a violent outlaw motorcycle game, the Warlocks, named
(24:18):
Bobby nas Wow. So as passionate as Frank Bender is
about forensic sculpture, it's not his livelihood. Frank only makes
between like twelve hundred and seventeen hundred dollars a bust,
and he only makes two or three a year, And
the restraint here seems to be his choice. As you
might have guessed, Frank isn't exactly chasing wealth. That's not
(24:39):
his style. He basically pays his bills doing odd jobs
like working on a tugboat and the occasional commission here.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
My god, what a life.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
It's almost like he's one of those people. It's like
I want to be out and about among the people totally,
and that's why he can do that job so well.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I want to work on a tug boat.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah you can.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
You think there are cats? I've bet those cats on
a tugboat.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
To keep the rats away? Or would the or would
the Oh no, they don't fish off a tugboat. Totally
different job. If you captain a tugboat, please write in
then tell us how many cats are on.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
If you're a tugboat cat, please write in at my
favorite Murder at Gmail and tell us what it's like.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yah ma'am Mayamah, Yeah, Ma'amamiah. In his mind, it's his
well intended investigative work that feels meaningful. So in nineteen
ninety he co establishes the v Doc Society, made up
of detectives and profilers, forensic experts, pathologists, and other professionals
who regularly meet with the hopes of cracking cold cases.
(25:39):
I didn't realize that, but he basically is one of
the founding members.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Amazing, so good.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
We've also talked about this group on the show in
episode I think you talked about them.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Right, probably cold cases? Probably?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah, probably it was in episode three sixty two, a
generous number of apples, your favorite where Oh yes, you
talked about Sorry, it's right in the paragraphic I knew.
I love to read this and go over it and
then just be like casual making conversation. It was when
you covered Pennsylvania's boy in the box case.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Right, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
So for years there was a boy and the v
DOC Society finally gave him his name back just a
few years ago, in twenty twenty two. He was four
year old Joseph august Zarelli. And this information is a
huge break in the still unsolved case of his death.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, that's one of those classic ones that the
older gets, the less likely it would seem that he
would ever be identified. And the fact that he was
is just incredible. V docs on it amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
So as accomplished as Frank Bender is as an artist
and an unlikely investigator, it's also worth noting that he
is a big character himself. His eccentricity is delightfully captured
in the Esquire article that we sourced earlier, the one
by Brendan Vaughan, and he writes, quote, Frank Bender is
a spooky dude, not only because he knows what your
(27:01):
skull looks like. It's spooky how his answering machine invites
you to leave a message for the recomposer of the decomposed,
And it's a little spooky how he returns your call
from his claw foot bathtub. It's spooky how he talks,
and it's even spooky how he listens. But the spookiest
thing about Frank Bender is also the thing that's made
him a legend in the field of law enforcement. Frank
(27:22):
Bender sees dead people.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
That is so, I have chills. It's amazing, it's incredible.
I'm so glad you're telling this.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Also, like what if this is untapped in other people
at like totally that we could be helping each other
with these cold cases and these horrible mysteries.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
You would never know unless you're like walked into aim more.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, new art right.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
So Frank doesn't seem to mind that these things get
right ups or attention, And that's a good thing, because
he gets a lot of attention for it. He's been
covered by sixty minutes forensic files, forty eight hours written
up in GQ, in the New York Times, and there's
been an indie documentary made about him, called Recomposer of
the Decomposed. He's been featured on TV shows as far
(28:07):
away as Japan and Germany, presumably thanks to his willingness
to travel. He's no stranger to flying somewhere far away
and collaborating with foreign investigators. So the assignments, the media
coverage the successful identification seem to feed Frank's thirst for
more investigative work. He continues accepting commissions and gets very
(28:28):
attached to the cases that he works on, hoping that
he can push them toward a resolution. Ted Botha, who
wrote a book about Frank, even says quote, He's a
fighter for justice. He's almost like a little Captain America
or something. Wow, so sweet. In two thousand and nine,
Frank is diagnosed with cancer at the same time as
(28:49):
his wife Jan and she passes before him. Yeah, his
doctor will later tell People magazine quote, I'm completely baffled
as to how he has remained so functional through what
must be an unimaginable degree of pain. That is courage.
But Frank is quite matter of fact about his mesothelioma diagnosis.
(29:11):
Just a year after learning about it. In twenty ten,
he tells a reporter quote. I'm used to being surrounded
by death. I've done everything I ever wanted to do.
I drove a race car, I've skydived, I've helped identify
a lot of people, including fugitives on the most wanted this.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, I bet like being around death that much makes
you a little bit more aware of the important things
in life.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yes, not waste time.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, your perspective is you'd think our perspective would be
so much better.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Cars been around a lot of anxiety. Yeah, no, I
think so. I think I pay attention more.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I think, don't you like, oh, over these last ten years, Yeah,
I think there's a lot of lessons and a lot
of kind of awareness and.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
A lot of being grateful because the fact that it's
not us. Yeah, the grace of God, Thank fucking God.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
There's no reason, and it's that kind of thing of
like we shouldn't live in fear. Yeah, the idea of
living in fear robs you completely, and there's no reason
for it, and there's a lot of reason for it.
There's reason for it, but most people are good. So
by this point, Frank has been working with investigators for
around thirty years since that very first bust he created
(30:23):
to identify and a duval He's actually since that time,
it's estimated he's created about forty more. Wow, he's done
it forty times. So many he doesn't keep an official tally,
so that's why it's just an estimation. Over the years,
Frank has proven he's well worth the it's roughly seventeen
hundred dollars commission that he accepts for each sculpture he makes.
(30:45):
It's hard to get an exact measure of how many
cases he has helped solve, but ABC News has reported
that he has an eighty five percent success.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
Right, Holy shit. I know he hate it, but I'd
love to see a museum exhibit of all the busts.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
And the whole story kind of rolled out of like cause,
you know, when you do art, in whatever way you
do it, it is about inspiration. It's just that his
inspiration is very odd and specific and incredibly helpful and meaningful.
The Philadelphia Inquirer, meanwhile, once reported that Frank's busts have
(31:21):
led to breaks in almost every single one of the
cases he's worked. Wow, that's wild. The New York Times
is a bit more modest, but still impressive. Putting his
success rate at somewhere around forty percent on a cold case.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
That's the thing, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
In twenty eleven, Frank Bender succumbs to cancer at age seventy,
as The New York Times reported in his obituary quote.
Interviewers are often asked mister Bender whether his life among
the dead gave him nightmares. Yes, he replied, but not
in the way you think. For years, he explained, his
dreams had been peopled by the dead and sinister men.
(32:01):
The sinister men invariably attacked him, mister Bender said, and
whenever they did, the unnamed dead rose up in his defense.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And that's the story of the late and legendary forensic
sculptor Frank Bender.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
In incredible job. But Frank Bender, so good. I'm so
glad you did that.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Isn't that a good one? Yeah, because you assume, like
anytime when we did that story about John List, or
anytime you think about it, you're.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Just like, oh, that's a thing that the FBI developed,
right and moving on right, Yeah, Yeah, it's an true artist. Yeah,
and like not pursuing that on purpose, and it's just
kind of happening to you. It's almost like, you know, fate.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, it's completely fate. He gets a vision of what
this woman who's been shocked in that head looks like.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh my god, incredible job. Thank you, perfect start to
spooky season. Right, Jesus, we've done it.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
We did it again. Look, we just keep doing it
and we won't stop until you take our microphones away.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Never got damn in closing. We just like to stay,
stay sexy and don't get murdered.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Good goodbye, Elvis, Do you want to cookie?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
This has been an exactly Right production.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Our editor is Aristotle oce Vedo.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
This episode was mixed by Leona Squalacci.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan, and Ali Elkin.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Email your homecouns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Follow the show on Instagram at my Favorite Murder.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
And now you can watch us on exactly Right's YouTube page.
While you're there, please like and subscribe.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Goodbybeye
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Georgia Hardstark
Karen Kilgariff
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