50 - The Golden Anniversary Episode

Rock, paper, scissors... it's My Favorite Murder! On this episode, Karen and Georgia delve into the mystery of the Somerton Man and discuss the 1984 bioterror attack by followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So you get it out now, do you?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Oh, they're not supposed to know about your pre show cry.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Hello everybody, are we recording?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I wish you guys knew what a nightmare it was
from when Karen got here in my apartment until we
started recording.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I just asked for an eight minute sob before we start,
just to get it out. Yeah, it's better, is it?
For me?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
This is my favorite murder. That's right, that's Karen, that's Georgia.
Let's start up.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
There's nothing worse than when we do it correctly. I
feel like there's it feels terrible to do it right.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
This isn't that kind of podcast, like this isn't that.
This isn't there's no second takes.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Although I have to say I would love Steven would
ever get us act together for a little bit of uh,
just a little bit of intro music, can we please?
Wouldn't it be fun just play.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Like your theme song like out loud in the apartment?

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah or yeah, oh you could do that. Or if
you've got a keyboard, throw it over, throw it over
to the Bosonova rhythm.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah, yeah, get us pumped, get.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Us a little just a little like talking intro music
like loud enough that it's over the crying over Karen sobbing.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
So they're like, I can ignore it.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I wind the sobbing out slowly and you intro.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
This and that way I don't accidentally introduce a different podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
That's a good idea, well, I mean, or whatever comes out?
What if we just have it as whatever comes out? Allowance?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
That reminds me, oh, what are we gonna call our tour?

Speaker 1 (01:57):
So we have a name?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
We don't, but I think it'd be funny to have
just a bunch of ideas of not and like never
settle on one.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Okay, well then my first idea is Monsters of Rock.
What's your first idea? The f word murder Mystery tour? Great,
then we have to fucking give a cut to someone's
dad whoever made up that name? Angry this episode? We
could also do just we could call ourselves the gin

(02:28):
Blossoms and I'm all minor band jokes. It's not good.
Should we do? Uh No?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, I guess I don't need one. I mean, we
want a sign behind us now, we like at the show.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Nope, who's gonna make it? Who's gonna hang? Hang it?

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Or make it Stephen just raise.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
We're just gonna keep We're gonna keep piling ship on
you that you have to fucking do.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
What if we call it Steven's Piles Tour, the piles
of Stephen.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
What's that mean?

Speaker 1 (02:58):
It's just piles of shit he has to do tour? Oh,
I got I get it.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
It's called I like that.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
You immediately lost track of what was happening piles.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
But like I was thinking, like like Gomer piles, So
I was thinking of going Stevens Stephen piles like Gohmer pile.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no great? Uh? What if
we cancel the tour because this is such a problem
it can't be solved?

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Cool?

Speaker 1 (03:27):
What if we call it the dry Shampoo Tour? Because
I swear to god, I planned on bathing before I
came here, but I didn't. I was doing other stuff.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
This is a safe place to not bathe.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Oh my god, but I the amount of dry shampoo
I've started depending on. Yeah lately, do you use it too?

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
And your hair looks full and it looks like you
look like a mod Like yeah, like.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
A mod model model.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Like it's full and bouncy, and I fucking love it.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Oh, okay, thank You's great. I'm gonna start doing that then.
I also think I might need more. It's not we
should not. I love it. I love it.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
Har No, thanks uh yeah?

Speaker 2 (04:05):
So oh you guys loved the year end Guy Branham
spectacular episode.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yes, thanks for all your positive feedback on that. Yeah,
we're gonna definitely have him back on.

Speaker 4 (04:17):
I don't love that.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
It was one of your favorites speaking, I'm sorry, what
have we been doing this fucking fifty episode?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Hey, look we get it. Yeah, yeah, we get it.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
We get it.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
You like when there's someone else talking to anyone else,
anyone else who has correct information.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Look, fine, we'll do it that. We'll fine, we'll fucking smart. Okay,
and we'll do it. Watch this. Watch how much you
don't enjoy this.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
I'm gonna name every state in every Roman numeral right now.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I can kick off a corrections corner by saying, yes,
the Sandra Bullock movie is two weeks notice, and yes,
I said it was called six weeks notice while claiming
to be her number one fan. Two weeks is not enough.
I I feel like six weeks. I think I feel
like is the legal amount.

Speaker 4 (05:03):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Six weeks, Like, sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Two weeks is like me getting fired from being a secretary,
you know what I mean? Like, but six weeks is
like when you're a fucking lawyer, like Sandra Bullock was.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
You're a professional? Thank you right? She was, she was
a lawyer. I don't even know that very good. I
just felt like the movie took so long. It couldn't
have been two weeks that she when she gave me.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Do you really like that movie? Like legitimately?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh solid, watch it every time.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
I know you will.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
But like, is it like a you know, it's a
bad movie. Watch Nope, it's not a bad movie. Hugh
Grant and Sandra Bullock are equal parts. He's the British version.
They're the equal person of themselves. They're the mirror reflection
of each other. They're like riffy yet real, and they're
kind of like mumbly bumbly.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
So they're playing.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
No, they're they're attracted to each other. Yeah, but they're
playing brother and sister. But which is the part? I like,
it's a real Game of Thrones situation, and yet there's
a corporate element to it, which I also love.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
It just bums me out, like I see movies like
that and I'm like, oh, what if you had to
fucking live your life by working in an office every
fucking day.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
You know, part of the part that I love in
that movie. And there's details like this that always stick
out to me. You can tell when either the person
that wrote the movie or Sandra Bullock herself. There's a
part where she orders Chinese food like this isn't how.
It's just not how. People like the idea is that
she's going to totally binge on Chinese food, but it's
way too much Chinese food, Like you already get a

(06:32):
ton of Chinese food when you just get four or
five things, like we know, here's what you get.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
You get a poultry and you maybe get a shrimp,
and then you get a noodle or a rice and
maybe some like like wide rolls.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
Because you want to crunchy thing.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yes, that's the first thing that you need. But yeah,
four things entree and maybe you're gonna add the fifth.
In this thing, she sits on that phone and she
just keeps ordering dishes and it's like, now I believe
that you've never eaten anything besides like an apple and
a cup of yogurt. Because you've never allowed yourself to
have Chinese. That's a scene in it, like here's how

(07:05):
bum she is. I'm pregnant. I'm saying a little bit.
It's no, but it's just her thing. It's like to
show that she's so down or girl and normal. She
orders like enough Chinese food for seven Chinese families and
they usually have four children.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
It's one of those things where it's like and people
tweet this all the time, like I ordered Chinese and
they brought and it was just for me, and they
brought eight utensils because that's how much I ordered.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Like I'm such a pig. Haha, I'm cute, you know,
and you're like fucking shut up.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Like there's that.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
There's this amazing instagram that I'm obsessed with and I
don't know exactly what it's called, but it's basically called
you didn't Eat that? And it's these photos of models
and like actresses that are like opening their mouth and
putting a food thing near it.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
And taking a photo of it. But like, you didn't
eat that. That's right. Everyone knows it's always a carb,
Like it's always like a big burger. I'm gonna dance
with this bull of spaghetti, but you've never actually had
that in your mouth.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
I'm gonna dance with those bullets. Oh my god, if
you want to shake bath.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
In one food product, what would it be? Because a
spaghetti bowl of spaghetti sounds great.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, I think spaghetti and parmesan cheese moves together. And
you just slip right into that. That what is wrong
with it? That sounds so nice, That sounds so relaxing,
just after giving your six weeks Notice, Yeah, you just
get into that bath. Maybe order some Chinese door dash,
some Chinese postmates it straight into the bathroom or not.

(08:29):
This isn't a commercial, by the way. Oh no, you
even slip into a commercial. Nope, not at all. Oh
we also need music before the commercials because of post
it's coming so chatty.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
It's not fair to tell we're not trying to do that.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
We're not like this isn't you guys know that we
don't know anything about like editing and fucking engineering and
being sneaky and like talking about states.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Clearly, here's the other mistake I made. Okay, when we
were talking with guy about legal shit and we were
talking about the murder of Harvey Milk, I had to
pop pipe up and say, and you I think you
said something like, yeah, he was murdered by his coworker
and another politician. I said, that's right, Dan Brown. The person,

(09:13):
the person that murdered Harvey Milk was Dan White. Dan
Brown is the international best selling author of The Da
Vinci Gut, and he absolutely did not kill Harvey parents.
Starting rumors is my favorite new corner. This is the
gossip corner. Now, did you know? Did guy or Georgia myself?
Not a correction, not a beat, dope, no one even

(09:34):
heard it.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Because here's the thing, we're allowed to say whatever the
fuck we want. This is our podcast. If you want
a factual podcast, go to what you missed in facts.

Speaker 4 (09:42):
You know ustory.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
We're on the cutting edge because like this whole thing
of like then there is no reality anymore. Yeah, we've
been doing.

Speaker 4 (09:48):
That since last year. This hasn't happening, you know that.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
I also feel it's funny that you, like, I get
fucking everything wrong, but you're the one who has corrections.
This is so clearly I'm just like, I don't care.
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Oh if you're if you're a bitch enough to fucking
tell me what I got wrong, then that sucks, But
I also think it's hilarious to get like when we
get shit wrong.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
I do too.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
There's people though, I accidentally stumbled on this email and
I can't I was trying to find Do you ever
do that thing where you start an email and then
you have to go check something else. This happens to
me on my phone all the time. I start to
write an email and then I have to go check,
and I'm like, giving the person I'm writing it to
someone else's email, and I want to double check to

(10:33):
make sure I don't give them the wrong email. So
I leave the email, so I hit save draft, but
then I can't find it in my drafts holder it's
not there.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
Then I'm like, did I send that email? Oh my god?

Speaker 1 (10:43):
And then I'm like, and then what if I go
back in? Do you start it again? And then re
send another email? So scared, I've fucking punched my microphone
in the face. This is something that I actually went
through recently. Do you do that? I mean I have?
I have done it once once before, where now I'm
scared to death that that it's that idea of is
it in drafts or did you just send it.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
It saves it itself, so you can just close it.
Here this is.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
But sometimes my phone on the phone quick enough so
it's like it just updated, but it really didn't do.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
You know what I do, which could be a mistake,
is I start to type in their email address in
the email I'm writing and it comes up, Oh, like
you're going to see that, like you're seeing them in
neat But then don't forget to be like, oh yeah,
that kind of here's her email, and then you're like
you find it by seeing them, and then you're like, oh.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Shit, that'd be the buzz you're you're talking about a
person that you're also giving their email to the person. Yeah,
but you shouldn't hire her on I think she's a
stupid But then anyway, get a hold of her anyway.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Like she's like she's going to suck everyone on that crew.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Ah, why was I even citing that example?

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Mistakes made? It's called my life?

Speaker 1 (11:51):
What was it? There's a reason I was saying that, Stephen,
what was the reason?

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Six weeks? No, I wasn't that, Stephen. You're too far back.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Put the phone, put that microphone down, put the phones
on the phone on like a payphone in the corner.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Jesus, microphones are going everywhere today, Stephen, can you get
some better fucking props?

Speaker 4 (12:13):
Are these props? Well, we're about I'm moving and so.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
This is about so exciting.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
I'll be like, I'm kind of sad. This is our
like setup. You like, I want video.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
When it's like March and you have full ac.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Like in other parts of the country, are like March
is cold.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Nope, Nope, not here in fucking We're a global warming
town where we are gonna live always.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
We're gonna have an episode live from the pool. I'm
going to fucking be living near nice. We're gonna play.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
Tennis and record at the same time.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Not me.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
No, we're gonna have I don't know how to play tennis.
We're gonna sit on hardwood floor. Yes, everything about I can't.
So yeah, we'll let you know. But we need a
photo of like this events comes home drunk. We'll have
him take a photo of us right here.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
The day that I haven't bathed.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
You look great. You're out of here. G d mind
you had one more corner.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Oh, it was my the thing that that happened over Christmas,
my good story that I didn't tell you the whole
thing of So at my aunt Joe's house. Now my
family knows that I have a podcast about murder. Many
are excited about it. Some don't like it and told
me right to my face, which is which is funt go?

(13:40):
But my lovely aunt Joe said, well, wait, did you
know that Marty had a hand in the arrest of
the nightstalker? My cousin Martin, the oldest of all the cousins.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Who is the San Francisco policeman? Fuck our refirement? Who
was a cop in San Francisco for many years. He's
now tired. Was he had just started, He was like
just on the force. He was basically a beat cop.
And there was a burglary in the Marina, and so
they went in and well, while they were looking at

(14:13):
the place that had been burgled, they found a set
of fingerprints, and so they called the forensic team whatever
it's called. He told me the story on the phone,
actually because I was texting him of like how could
you never have told me that? And he was like,
we never talk. You're the most You're you're angelis, Yeah,

(14:34):
stop using me for crime. And then I was like
too bad. Tell me the story.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
I'm sorry, you've been boring the whole time I've known you.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Suddenly you're interesting. No, this is these are all my
cousins are fun. But he tells me. So, they find
a fingerprint on the window sill. They called the guy
the team to come and get it, and then that
fingerprint leads to the identification of Richard Ramirez because so
you know how, he started an late then he went
up to San Francisco, and then he went back down

(15:02):
to La Okay. So when he was in San Francisco,
that fingerprint basically helped identify him. And my cousin Marty
was one of the two copsits.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
We had that technology then where they could like send
fingerprints to places.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
I guess. So, I mean it was like the late nineties.
It was the late eighties. Yeah, I think it was
eighty nine. Like fax machines were in their prime. They
faxed over the request. Yeah, dude, that's so cool. It
was super exciting to me. And I go, why didn't
you ever tell me this? And he goes, no one's
ever asked me about this or to be blocked about it. Yeah,

(15:39):
that's what I said. And the interesting thing he said,
was that in that break in, Richard Ramirez stole a
couple things from this. You know, the Marina is like
super nice part of San Francisco. There was a girl
sleeping downstairs and he didn't know. Fucking God, he didn't
go downstairs. If he had gone downstairs, she would be dead.

(16:02):
And also I know she never even knew he was there,
so she was like the luckiest. And also while Richard
Ramirez was in San Francisco there was my cousin. My
cousin Marty's daughter, Kathleen told me this because she said

(16:22):
she's always been scared to pull her car into.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
A garage she had to walk out of it.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Well, she's like, anytime I there's a garage, I immediately
like turn off the engine, but immediately close the door. Well,
they have those.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Garages that don't have doors, but we have to pull
into them and then walk back out the garage door,
and those are.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Very scary, very scary. So she's like super paranoid of
anything similar to that. Because when Richard Ramirez was in
San Francisco, there was a woman who got out of
her car and he was standing in the front of
the garage thing and he shot her and the bullet
was deflected by her keys and she survived. Last night,

(17:01):
a key chain say come on now, don't don't, no,
you don't.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
ELA's just stop touching me.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
When I said that, Elvi was liked this thing about.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
How dear mom. So anyway, that was that was Christmas night.
I got to hear all these stories, and it was
it made me so proud to be a kill gariff.
Was exciting. I'm proud of is his last name kil Gariff. Yeah,
that's a fucking awesome to Marty Kilgarriff. Then my cousin,
and then Mike is the sheriff, sheriff, kill Gariff sheriff. Yeah,
that's real. Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
My brother was an usher at a movie theater when
he was in high school, and so he was asher,
the usher.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Ash for the usher. See dreams come true. Everything's fine,
Everything's gonna be okay. In twenty seventeen, well, my second
cousin wrote Pink Cadillac. So there we go, the Bruce
Frankstein song. Yeah was it? Yeah, pink Catillac. Yeah, he
wrote that's awesome. He's in the pay area too, Twins, Well,

(18:04):
thanks for tuning in. This is called family victories with
Karen and Georgia. This is called We're not losers? Oh
we have family or successful someone's doing something.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
My favorite murder dot com has all this is in
the end of the show. But no, you know we're
about to get into some heavy fucking shit, right, I
don't know?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
So yeah, so take this information with you. There's a website.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Sure, we have a website.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Is there anything I feel like, I just I should
do something where I write stuff down and I think
of it throughout the week and then talk to you
about it.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Like make a list.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yep, sure it out when we.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Get started with the Murders.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
Just happy fiftieth episode?

Speaker 1 (18:46):
Oh my god? Is this it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:49):
This is episode fifty.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Oh my god, thank god for Steven.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
You even met. You mentioned it earlier and I was
like and then just like passed by and I was like, wait, really.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
No, I know that that can't be right. Yeah, this
is episode fifty. You're hired. Holy good.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Isn't that great?

Speaker 3 (19:08):
And then the first episode I think.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Aired January fifteenth, I found I found the very first
Instagram account that our Instagram photo on my on my
Instagram that says.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Like, hey, Karen, I started a Poco Elizabeth, I'm going
to post it on the fifteenth. But that's that's crazy.
It's been almost a full year. Holy in fifty episodes.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeh, fifty episode.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
That means our live show at the or them is
going to be like it's the seventeenth.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Someone needs to know that it's.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
The twenty my favorite murder dot com. Yeah, lets just
go ahead and visit that website.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
Oh my god, it's our fifty.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Isn't it the twenty eighth? There's a twenty four? No,
it's Stephen.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
This is why we hired you.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
This is the market edit.

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Congratulations, thanks, congratulations to you too.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Thank you. I feel like it's not that hard.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
To make fifty podcasts.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Oh I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Oh, I'm sorry fucking kidding me. Oh yeah, that's great.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
It's great.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
I mean it's great because it's doing well and it's
not sad. Yep. Yeah, God bless America. Who's going first?
Karen can't well? We just yeah, what, it's just good,
it's cool, it's good. Okay, Yeah, am I going first? This? Wait,
what's the date of the orphume show.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
It's the twenty first.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
None of those guesses were right, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Vince and I recently had to look at the inscription
inside of his wedding ring to remember what day we
got married.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
When your anniversary, and we were both wrong. That is
the inscription is smart. That's a good idea. Yeah, thank
god we did that because we were both like the six.
I was like I was a four.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
It was a fifth. So we're awesome. Yeah, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Part of your new job that we're hiring you for
is that you need to remember who went first last time?

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Guy Brandon went first.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Last right, that's right, No one went first.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
New Year, fresh start?

Speaker 1 (21:05):
All right, rock, paper scissors, that's right, okay, one two
three hit, yeah, okay one two three hit fuck one
two three hit. I got a right.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
First we got scissors and then I got paper and
she got rock. Just guys. For those for those watching
at home, yep, for those who have.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
To know, all right, well, this one is like I
didn't want to do this one because I feel like, well,
everyone like I do this a lot where it's like,
bl I've been obsessance. I was a kid, so I'm
like everyone knows this thing, but people keep asking us
to do it, and it's fucking fascinating and there's information
that one doesn't know about. So I'm like, I got
into it, and I got really into it. Okay, cool,

(21:46):
So this is the the Tammin showed. Oh yes, the
Summerset Man. We have just talked about this, but we
haven't gone into detail, right, so there's some really interesting
info about it.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
So when they get through the beginning and have you
solved it, I've solved it. Oh well, of course I
in my head have solved that.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
You know exactly what you got.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
So on the morning of December one, nineteen forty eight,
a man's body is found on Somerton Beach, which is
in Australia. It's near Adelaide, which is like the fucking
has the best serial killers.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
The dead man is leaned up against.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
A wall.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
He's on the beach, leaned up against a wall. He's
wearing a suit and tie. He's well dressed. There's an
unlit cigarette on resting on his collar, as if he
was just like about to smoke, and then it fell
out of his mouth when he died.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
So his feet are crossed.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
There's no signs of struggle or distress, and people walking
by had seen him and thought he was just drunk.
He was like propped up that way.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
He had no identification on him.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
When he had on him was an unused rail ticket
or a bus ticket, a comb gum cigarette, and a
scrap of paper with the phrase taman shoed. It's hard
to find out exactly how to say this. Tam and
shoed spell it t A M A N s U
s h u d it's it's it's not okay. It

(23:18):
means finished in Persian okay. And the labels had been
clipped from his clothing. So the autopsy doesn't find a
cause of death, but notes that he was in his forties,
he had a fit physique, and that they said that
he had strong and high calf muscles, as if he

(23:40):
were a dancer, just like me. All right, but you
can tell those things, supposedly. So they take his railway
ticket and they find his suitcase at the train station,
and they know it's his because a spool of thread
inside the case matches the thread that he had used
to repair one of his pockets.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
And in the.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Suitcases a shaving kit, clothes and a coat was stitching
that was specific to US tailoring, so they thought he
was from the US.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Also, he had Wrigley's juicy fruit gum.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh that's America.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
What if this whole time, this had just been an
ad for Wrigley gum And they're like, you can't tell
it apart anymore, and only American men chewed it back
then Australian men didn't, so okay. So the paper the
tom enshood was torn out of a poetry book, Persian
poetry book that was extremely rare, and local librarians identified

(24:36):
the phrase as the very last two words. It's the
Rubayacht of omar Kym. It's a book of poems from
the twelfth century by a Persian poet, and the theme
of this book is that one should live their life
to the fullest and have no regrets when it ends,
I becomen And the very last line it's almost like

(24:56):
saying the end was tom enschuod, which is fit finished.
And for some fucking reason, that was in his pocket.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
Okay. So a dude comes.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Forward and says that he had actually found this book
in the backseat of his car around the same time
and around the same place, like someone had tossed this
book into the backseat of his car, and it had
those two last words ripped out of it, and in
the book that the guy had found were a bunch

(25:28):
of lines that were code.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
It seemed to be code.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
They didn't make any sense, but they're all capital letters,
and the letters all kind of seemed like how English
words would start. So the theory is that the Somerton
man was poisoned. There was no trace of poison found
in his system, but the pathologists who performed the autopsy

(25:52):
said that his spleen had grown to three times its
normal size and that his liver was damaged, and he said, quote,
I am convinced the death could not have been natural.
And he said the poison I suggested was a barbituate
or a soluble hypnotic, which is sleeping pills. But no
foreign substance was found in his body. But most of

(26:12):
these barbituates like kind of go away within a couple
of days. So it seems like he was poisoned, but
there was no poison actually found in his body. And
then codebreakers have tried to solve the code that's in
the actual book and like, okay, so there's these these
like a bunch of letters, and they think it stands

(26:33):
for it's time to move south. It's time to move
to south. Australia Moseley Street, which is like so stupid
and I think that they just made up like it
sounds ridiculous. The letters are itt and T and they
came up with it that way to mostly so.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
You're just saying, it seems like they're just reaching for
something that it can't mean. Yes, but however, homever Howmever,
there's also a phone number, an unlisted phone number in
the book, and it belongs to a former army nurse
who lives on Mosley Street. Oh, it's not so stupid.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Maybe well maybe they knew that afterwards and made that up,
because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Okay why, I don't know, it's just like that's all well,
because is it? Because it's like the secret code and
then all it says is like a place it's like
not even that interesting, yeah, or it's time to move
to South Australia Mosley Street.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
Why would anyone need to code that?

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, maybe maybe it doesn't mean what it sounds like
it means, like maybe it's in code where.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, where it's like move means something sinister.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Okay, so the down down the street from where he
dies is Mosley Street where it's a five minute walk
to where the person whose phone number where she lives.
Her name is Joe Thompson and she lives on Mosley Street.
She when the cops go there, she's like, oh, he is,

(28:01):
But actually I gave that exact book to Lieutenant Alfred Boxhall,
who she had served with.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
So she doesn't know who this person is. There's this
fucking rare book of poems that she had given to
someone she had served with. And you don't world War
two just give a person a book of poems. No, No, No,
they were probably boning, right, I mean that's not You're
not like, oh here's the rubiat Yeah, see you later, Powell.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
No, I gave everyone a copy of fucking Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy that I fall.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
In love with. No, No, I don't poem. I mean
I've done it, but I doms are a big deal. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
If someone gives you a book of poems, are into.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
You and it's like it's a rare book of beautiful poems.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah. She spent like forty books at a bookstore for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
So she's like, I don't know who that is, but
my book sounds familiar I gave it to this dude,
and so they they are like, well, this dude must
be the Somerset man. But then he turns up in
forty nine and he still has his copy of.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
His book and it was attacked, so it's not him,
but he has a copy of the book, like you
know him, Okay, So they could he sorry, could he
just as a cover have gotten a second copy or like.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
What if it was just like they show a photo
of it and it's like duck taped into.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
The fucking last page of the book.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
He just like just really shitty crayon and it's like
written in yes, totally yes what you're saying. So people
started to speculate that Lieutenant Boxall was working for the
military intelligence at the time, and maybe the Summerton Man

(29:45):
was a Soviet spy and he was poisoned by Boxaw
or some other agent. So he went to visit this
woman who had given this man a copy of the book,
and they were all spies and maybe you know, it's.

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Like it's really interesting, okay.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
But Boxall himself dismisses a quote as it's quite a
melodramatic thesis say that in Australian voice, I don't.

Speaker 4 (30:08):
I can't. Oh, I can't, I can't.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
They always sound like everything goes up at the end.
They no matter what they're saying, they sound like they're
kind of excited even when they're That's why I was listening.
I told her, I was listening to Case File over
the break when I drove to San Francisco. It's great
and to listen to somebody very seriously talk about murder
but have their incline the intonation go up at the
end is so enjoyable to.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Me because it's like an exclamation mark at the end
of every sentence.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, just kind of sounds like everything's all right even
though it's murder. Do you know what happened over the
I forgot to tell you this. At New Year's Eve.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
I was at Joe Ross's house and there was an
Australian girl there who was from Adelaide, and I was like,
I did the thing of you guys have great murders,
and she was she wasn't like, yeah, here's what I remember.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
She was like, oh, I know, she was very she
was very sweet, but bye, Australia has the best murders.
Tell me about that one million of them and one
of them just got she didn't know about the fucking
serial killer murder who just got solved? The Uh, that's
I just case. Fyle guy just told me about that shit.

(31:13):
We forgot to talk about detective new detectives, and we'll
talk about it at the end. That'll be our thing.
It's not new detectives either, it's really detective. I know,
I don't know the truth is it's the Claremont killer. Yes, yes, they.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Just are like she didn't know about that, right, which
I know is like asking someone in Texas if they
know about the murder, and Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
It's just why don't you care? It's just like get involved,
get involved in the the intense serial killing that's happening
in your community.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Like murder is fun.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Wait, hold on, though, what is Claremont anywhere near Adelaide?

Speaker 4 (31:49):
I think so?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I mean Perth. It's near Perth, per which has some
fucking cool murders, But is our Perth and Adelaide even
in any way.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Don't care if we found out, if we found out
that a fucking serial killer like we did recently had
been caught finally in fucking Queen or not Queens, like
somewhere you know, what's.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Place, what's a what's a faraway place? Uh? New York?

Speaker 4 (32:14):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
We would we would know and be fucking interested because
it's fucking interesting.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I'm sorry, but like, don't come out sorry, don't come
at me with oh really.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Also, if you're at a party, look, we've talked about
this eighty thousand times. What else is there to talk about?
We were all bored, there's nothing to do.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
We were all like, I mean, look, it was awkward.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
She was the only one who didn't know anyone. So
I was trying to be nice and I can't to
know her? Yes, like I was doing and she was
a sweet and I was like, oh cool, like I
was trying to fucking included.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
I know's the difference between talking about murder and attempted murder.
You're not coming at her, You're just trying to make
small talk.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
There were and I'm so close. I could have killed
her if I wanted, And guess.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
What I wanted. I didn't, and you should have.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
This is why we came friend at a party.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yeah, okay, So what's.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
Going on Steven over here?

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (33:10):
No, Perth is near Claremont. They're like right next to you,
but Adelaide is on the other side.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
It's near Texas where we've still known about a fucking
serial killer getting caught.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Adelaide is right books ex am I wrong.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
But it's like.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
It's Texas. They have their own Adelaide.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
So in two thousand and nine, speaking of University of Adelaide,
professor Derek Abbott, who's like this dude who's like the
dude like who's obsessed with this now like nowadays he's
the guy cool.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
And he's a professor that'll help.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, he's a professor at University of Adelaide, and he's like,
I'm gonna solve this, which sometimes is like bad because
you're like tunnel vision, but it's still interesting.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Still get into it. So Derek Abbott thinks that the
key to the code is in the actual book that
they found, but the addition that was was near on
the srset Man is so rare that they can't find
it a copy of that to like know if it
matchesuf like you know when they change chapters and they

(34:15):
change wording and they change the translation later, like we
can't find a book that that's all old enough to
like match up to this book, which is cool, Like
it could be I don't know, it could be in there,
but it's not in the ones that we can buy,
which I'm like, can you imagine going to fucking us
bookstore on finding that book? And like wait and also
like how put on an apb of Like does anybody

(34:36):
have the Rubiat? Look turn your grandma library paren sent
please send, so you.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Know the Rubiat? You fucking know about this? What the Rubiat?

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Like?

Speaker 4 (34:46):
That was amazing that you I didn't know what it
was called.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Oh oh oh, it's all knowledge. That doesn't help me
in any way.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
Except for on your podcast.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Oh I'm sorry, except for on your career podcast?

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Where was I? Okay?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
So the original autopsy report, guess what, it's lost. They
always get lost. The government won't exhume the body, and
Abbot's trying really hard to get them to exhume the
body for DNA testing. What's the problem, Well that they
won't do it. Yeah, because they think they don't think

(35:21):
it'll catch a murderer. That's their thing is Like it's
like if there will be used to a murderer, they'll
exhume it. But if it's just to figure out some
mysterious clue. They won't do it, but okay, which is
like it's got to be expensive. Tog zum a body, right, yes,
and I understand that they don't want to disturb it.

(35:42):
That's there's a whole thing. But like, yeah, okay, I
see that. Can I go on record and say, disturb
the shit out of my body if there's something mysterious
clue that needs to be solid, Oh, I'll.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Dig you up so fat, claw me out, call me.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
I'm gonna have a note taped to my body. I'm
not gonna tell you what it is.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
I'm gonna get you one of those plots where you
can just it's never fully buried, like you can just
keep bringing the body up on a little elevator. Do
you know about how they used to There were so
many there were so many bodies that got buried that
were still alive at a certain point that they started
bearing people with bells, yes, right, yes, so that if

(36:21):
the bell there was a bell in the coffin that
went up to the surface surface. So there, if you
were fucking bared alive, you would ding it. But then
so many people would start decomposing with their finger and
the bell because they put it in there and the
gases would move shite, and.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
No food ding the bell.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
How creepy would that be to like be the night
fucking monitor and just be like ding ding ding ding,
like which ones are ill, which one's not?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Now, this was around that time, this like eighteen. Yeah, yeah,
we're like everything was just so creepy. Back then. Everything's creepy.
It was like it was always night, Yes, it was
always night. Women always have black lace sails over their faces,
legs everywhere. Dead children, piles of dead children, Oh my god,
Like you expect your kids to die and you're just you.

(37:07):
You'd be like, hey, let's call you Timmy. Who really knows?

Speaker 4 (37:11):
I'm going to farm you out to this rich couple
to be their servant.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Goodbye bye ultimately, yeah, okay, good luck.

Speaker 4 (37:17):
Fuck so dark.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Everything sucks, but it's the best. But it sucks, you
know what I mean. Autopsy or report is lost? Okay,
all right, cool.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
So, so Abbott notices, like in the photos of the
Summerset man, he notices a couple things about him that
are strange.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
One is that his upper ear, like.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
This part right here that I'm pointing out that you
can't see on the podcast is strangely shaped, and the
formation is shared by less than two percent of Caucasians.
So the upper lobe of the ear is larger than
the lower lobe of the ear, which is rare, okay,
really less than two percent. Do you ever do that
thing where.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
You know, are really they identify people like when you
you know, when they always have that things like is
Nicholas Cage a time traveler? Here's a picture of him?
His ear doesn't those ears don't match, and you can
like immediately if you see and you think it could
people be the same check the ears for or like
a little like a kid corpse that like it went missing,

(38:19):
and like there's the photo of the kid and there's
a photo of his body and they're like, well, his
ear doesn't stay ear doesn't it's it They look exactly
the same. Yeah, fuck, dude, that's cool. Although I know
guy in high school who got fucking tape my ears
back surgery. Oh yeah, oh that's true.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Is that sad? No? But that was not now.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
They don't do that now, although they guess they could
if they like kidnapped a kid and like fix his ears.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Well, me, you'd have to yeah, there's so many possibilities
in this way. Yes, I know.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
I love that. Okay. So he looks at the body
and he is like, here are the ears. These are wrong.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
And also he had a condition in which the so
these certain teeth are missing in the front, so that
your incisors, your point guys, are right next to your
two front teeth, yeah, instead of having a buffer.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Right, So it's just like feng.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
And it's again, less than two percent of the population
have this, and I think it's hereditary.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
So they don't prove anything. What was this guy a chimpanzee?

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Uh? You might have well okay, yeah, oh my god,
Karen just solved it.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
It was a shaved chimpanzee. I needed to think.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
About it, for there was a carnival in town. Okay, insane,
like you fucking did it? Okay, they don't prove anything
on their own, but so but Derek Abbott examines photos
of the the of the son of the woman whose
phone number is in the book, who claims to have
nothing to do with him. Her fucking kid, Robin has

(39:53):
those same fucking abnormalities.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Both your an teeth, both shit.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
And in an addition to that, guess what he does
for a fucking living.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
He's a ballerina. Yep, are you kidding? Not fucking kidding? Okay,
blown mine? Am I wrong? What is she doing?

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Why won't she be honest? Because something went wrong? Because
maybe she was a spy and so is he. And
he came back around and was like, what's up. I'm
here in town because he was in town for like
he came into town, like they had bus tickets in
the suitcase thing that showed that he was just fucking visiting.
So he came into town for her. Oh if you
if you believe these theories, yes, so he came into

(40:36):
town to confront her, or to see her, or to
fucking threaten her, or to fucking blackmail her or whatever.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Or to make her nice dinner. Yeah, and she was like,
I don't I don't want dinner. I'm gonna put poison
in your food. Whoa something? Oh yeah, because he's an
and could have been her. That's why she's lying.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
It doesn't come up ever in any any webpage that
you find, but in my mind, yeah, I could have been.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
He's in the mix.

Speaker 4 (41:06):
She's in up in that mix.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Okay, So so his daughter, so her daughter. Her son Robin,
who they think is the kid, passes away in two
thousand and nine, and his daughter Kate is on sixty
Minutes in twenty thirteen, saying that his grandma had fucking
known this dude, the summrich In man, and that they
both might have been spies and she had no evidence

(41:31):
of that. But she also said that she thought that
this guy was her dad's father. Huh yeah, like she
the granddaughter, believes it the best. Like I love this
part of the story. Maybe I should save it. It's
like a really okay.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
For what next time? It's just cute, No for the
end because it makes it less sad. Oh oh okay, yeah,
I'm gonna save it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
So they're trying to get Australian government to exhume the body.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
They won't to fucking do it.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
He looks British in parents, he's his age, he's in
good physical I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
This is all like they're saying, there's no reason to
do it.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Yeah, maybe he wasn't murdered.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
The thing is that the kid was a fucking ballet dancer,
and the original autopsy said he had great CAFs and
looked like a fucking ballet dancer, which is like and
those two other fucking things, come on, please.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
You.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
So let's see I didn't edit this as well as
I should have. Okay, Okay, So they're they're now trying
to test the DNA of the daughter of this woman
or I mean the granddaughter of this woman, but they
don't have the DNA of the Summerton man, so but

(42:44):
they think that they're related.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Okay, So the DNA was anything of him? Do you know?

Speaker 4 (42:51):
I think they made a bust of his face, and.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
You can go online and see a really amazing I think,
what an amazing fucking autopsy face photo is like post
mortem like photo, And to me, I mean, this is
so stupid. I've always thought he looks like my grandfather,
who was a Eastern European immigrant, Like I've always thought
he looks like that. So maybe he was a spy
for fucking Germany in World War Two, but who knows.

(43:19):
So oh so in the bust they made of him,
there's some hairs left, but I don't think they can
get the DNA out of it, so that's why they're
trying to ExHAM him. But they test the DNA of
the granddaughter and it turns out that that she might
be related to like Thomas Jefferson, which if it is,
if he is related, he's from America.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Oh okay, basically, so didn't we know that from the
Juicy Fruit?

Speaker 4 (43:44):
Yeah, we thought that.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
But also it's interesting because if they find someone who
is related and they have an uncle who disappeared, then
we'll fucking know who it is.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Oh, I mean, which is really cool.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
They believe she had an affair they were maybe they
were spies, maybe they weren't. But the fucking best part
of this whole story. So that's what that's basically what
it is. We don't know that. I The last news
story I can get from this is from October of
twenty sixteen.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
Oh and it says they're.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Testing the DNA and this and the doctor who seems
really fucking cool named Fitzpatrick her last name, it's a shit.
She her name is Fitzstapatrick is going to do a
whole thing about it, and she never did. I can't
find it. But so the granddaughter Kate and Derek Abbott
who's trying to find the DNA, and the story of this,

(44:33):
the professor got married. Yeah, I three babies what ella
in love?

Speaker 1 (44:37):
What? How cute is that? What if he's just using her?
He's not for DNA? Every night She's like, I just
I have these dreams of my cheek being swabbed? Can
I just no? I just like youtips.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I love plucking your hair, darling. I mean, who has
another boyfriend wants to pluck your hair?

Speaker 4 (44:55):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Everybody's gonna through that.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
Yeah, And there's always a bowl in the toilet.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Is your peak? It's like, I means, just the thing,
it's standard. That's actually very sweet. So like he goes
to like he goes there to like fucking find out
what's going on.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
I'm going to interview the granddaughter and she's like, here's
this information. I believe it too, And then they make.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Out and then they're just like in the stacks trying
to find oh my good files, and she feeling how
cute is that? Oh my god, it's precious.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
That's like the best, Like that's so you'd read a
book about that and you're like, come on.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Shut up. Well, Also, because everything about else about this
case is so frustrating. First of all, are we sure
we haven't done this before? Because I feel like all
of that was so familiar. We'veked about it, we've talked
about it. I know, I listened to it on thinking sideways.

Speaker 4 (45:40):
Yes, for sure. That's why I didn't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
Is it's this thing happened, like, Okay, I want to say,
like when Jamie Lee was on the live episode, she
did a story that I think is fascinating that I
would never do because I feel like we need to
do stories that nobody knows about. I disagree, I know,
I know, and I agree with that. And Jamie said
she was going to do it. The audience fucking cheered,

(46:03):
and I was like, oh, we can actually do stories
that people know about.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
We're talking to find it. I know, I totally know, totally.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
So when I found that out, I was like, but
then me just saying this right now is like convincing
you otherwise basically, No, you're crack.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
Oh I totally think you're No.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
I mean me saying it sounds familiar.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
No, I mean I did John Bennet like, I can
do this. Yeah, yeah, so fine, Yeah, I just what
was the point. Oh, yeah, so we've heard about it.
You and I have heard about it. I said, Devince,
have you ever heard about this case? And he was
like no, no.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
So also it's so vague. It's like, so a dead
guy is there, and he's got these weird items on him,
and he may be this, and he may be that,
but he might just be a dead guy, dude. That
like there's you like a lot of stuff, a lot
of like way things have been painted on, Like he
could be a spy and it could be this, and
it could be that.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
Could he just a dead guy? Idn't find poison in
his body?

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Right?

Speaker 4 (46:54):
He could have he could have killed himself.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, I mean he's blained himself out one night, just
spleined you to explain yourself. You better splain yourself to me.
R blain yourself.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
No.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
It's one of those stories that I think everyone knows
the first three paragraphs of from like Snopes or whatever,
or from fucking read it, but the like weird details
of it, and the people like this guy who are
still trying to fucking figure it out, who I think
are going to be disappointed when they find out.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Well. Also, I think it's the fear. I think the
interest is everyone has the fear. What if, for some
reason you died and no one could figure out who
you were that's so sad, weird thing that would be.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
Oh, I think it's cool. Yeah, I think to me, like.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
It sounds like, what's it's true that he impregnated this woman.
He came to confront her somehow, who knows how he
knew her? Why she said she didn't know him? Those
things are suspicious, suspicious to me. Whatever happened was a bummer,
and he went and killed himself or drank himself to

(48:02):
death or some fucking thing and died there. Yeah, and
she it's just weird that she wouldn't admit to knowing him.
Maybe she didn't want scandal of being pregnant on wedlock.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
I don't know. It's fascinating. So but like, why is
she giving poetry books to other people? Yes, she's slotting
it up. No, oh my god, I'm say sorry, I
didn't want that. I will never slut shame, Like I'm
proud of her for doing that. But this is with
his all theory we don't have a theory.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Yeah, I mean, why were his tags cut out of
his clothes?

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Well?

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Was there no you know letter he had started in
his suitcase. It's another thing that Hannah I have in
common is often if I get a blouse and it
says it has the letter L. All fucking cuts that
letter up. You don't want an L or a twelve
sticking out what's while? You get like insecure? Or you
go to a nice wedding and there was like a

(48:54):
letter of dress. Where'd you get it? And you're like,
not forever twenty one? Certainly not the gap outlet, that's
for sure. Get it there, so you cut it out.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, So maybe his ship was like big and tall,
and he was like, I don't want anyone knowing that
he was.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
A big fat ballerina who's super insecure with a huge
spleen and a smoking problem, who just wanted to hang
out by the beach, honey, the summer summer tin Man.
What's the actual name of it. The name of the
whole case is the tom and Shoot, but his he's
being called the what man summer Man.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
That's the beach. He was found on Summerton Beach.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
And I feel like if I ever did a corrections corner,
I'd have a lot of them for next fucking week.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Hey, I'd come on over to the corner. We have
a great time over here. Well cares all right? Do
you want to hear mine, mine's weird this week, and
this is the one I've been working on for so
many weeks, and I never I can never figure out

(49:57):
how to put it together. It's like such a lo
tied by the involved thing. No, No, it's weird. Okay,
it's the Bogwan Shri raj Niche and the raj Niche
porn community that they set up in central Oregon in
the early eighties.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
I know some of those words. All right, let me walk. No,
Oh my god, I'm excited.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
And it's not. There's not an actual murder, it's attempted murder.
But the whole thing is so crazy and it's a story,
it's a news story. I remember standing in front of
the TV watching and listening to my parents get super
weirded out because essentially what happened was this, so the
Bogwan Tree. Rajniche was born in nineteen thirty one as

(50:42):
Chandra Mohan jane Jai n And He began his career
as a philosophy professor in India and in the sixties
he traveled throughout India as a public speaker and he
was a critic of socialism. He was critic of Gandhi
and institutionalized religions. He often spoke against Jesus, calling him

(51:05):
both a salesman and a madman. And he transitioned from
professor to guru when he noticed there's a lot of
money to be made off of unhappy, wealthy Westerners that
would come to India searching for spiritual meaning in their lives.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
So soon he built a thriving enterprise with his lectures
and group therapies. He was pro materialism. What yeah, he
was like changed. He was to change it up, guru.
So he was pro someone. I just see the meme
of him like sitting on the fire and it just
with his big weird eyes. He was pro materialism. He was,

(51:45):
I said, anti organized religion. And he was an advocate
for a more open attitude towards human sexuality. He was
he was. I mean, if he could only see Tumblr today,
he would be so proud of the leaps and bounds.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Him saying you have to fuck me.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Well that's exactly you know right, well he got. He
became known as the sex Guru in the press, which
his argument was, I've written two books on human sexuality
and thirty eight books on meditation, but you call me
the sex guru because he's he was all about how
Westerners were so puritanical and stuffy.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
He's clearly never was fucking watched Bob's Burgers and drink
the glass of wine, which is like sometimes better than sex.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
I mean, I mean, it could be argued. But he
was doing things like he was getting his little groups together,
and then suddenly the idea was, maybe you're so you're
so pent up about your sex that maybe people need
to have sex in front of me so that we
all stop being so pent up about sex. It's basically this,
this whole thing is the study in you know, ultimate

(52:53):
power corrupts up, Absolute power creps absolutely to get it wrong.
It's the easiest saying to remember because it's the same
words at the beginning of the end, and I still
got it wrong. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. So Also, he
had millions of dollars in unpaid taxes, so he had
to get the fuck out of India. How did he

(53:14):
have money to be he was because he was charging
all these people to come and be in his classes
and workshops and listen to his him giving these speeches
learn how to meditate. Yoga hadn't been a thing yet,
So they were learning about yoga's like the secret, you know,
amazing practice. Cool would it be to like, for like,
I have a couple thousand bucks, but to be millions

(53:35):
in fucking debt?

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Like you are living your best life? Hells yet you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Yeah, because you're beyond Yeah you're not like you don't
live in a fucking hovel. No, no, not at all.
I want to owe millions. You will someday, thank you.
So what they did was they decided they're going to
leave India and come to America. And uh so the
plan is that he's going to build a utopian city

(54:00):
for himself and two thousand of his followers in south
central Oregon. Yes, it makes perfect sense to me too. Well,
so it's not south central organ is empty. They were
basically three hours east of Salem, east and south of Salem,
so they were in this kind of central valley that
was super empty. It was just a bunch of ranches,

(54:22):
and a lot of the ranches had fallen into disrepair,
so it was almost like a desert ish situation because
they had just like over grazed the fields and stuff
like that was all very brown and kind of shitty.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
Oh yeah, so thanks guys.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Right, so they move in and the plan was they
were going to build housing compounds, warehouses, and support buildings
so that their business enterprises that were once based in
India could move to south central Oregon. And they initially
applied for a permit to build housing for ninety people,

(55:00):
but soon they they moved there and the numbers were
in the hundreds immediately. And when he arrived, the Bagwan
trie raj Niche he came to America and he was
on a three He was doing a three year silent
I don't know, meditation. He wasn't talking, and so his

(55:23):
voice was a woman named ma anand Sheila. Her real
name was Sheila Patel. She came from a very wealthy
family in India, and she was kind of like his
right hand man. And so she made the deal to
buy the Big Muddy Ranch in right outside of Antelope

(55:43):
in Oregon. And she was soft spoken and charming, and
she hosted a dance in the nearby town of Madras
where cowboys partied until dawn. She curried favor buying fifty
head of cattle from the Wasscou County Commissioner, even though
the commune was vegetarian. You know, she was like making
deals kissing babies, and she basically closed the deal so

(56:07):
that they could build their their farming commune. But what
she didn't know was that Oregon had very strict state
zoning laws that really limited how many people and buildings
could be erected onto ranch land based on the amount.
So as this development grew, they they kept having to

(56:31):
apply for more building permits, and they kept going to
the politicians and saying, oh, you know, we're just a
we're just a farming commune, but we need more living
quarters for the workers because this is there's so much
abused range land that we need more people to help
us fix it. And the problem was that they were

(56:56):
basically a bunch of rich, like coll educated, well off
kind of like it was pre yuppy, it was early yuppie.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
It was like post hippie, pre yuppy.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, they were the people. They were the people that
eventually became yuppie. Yeah that were like, we don't have
to live on the commune. We can just go to
yoga classes. But at that time they were kind of
like they had the hangover from the sixties of like
the whole hippie thing had fallen apart, and then the
Vietnam War bummed everybody out, and that's why a lot
of people went to India in the first place, to

(57:33):
be like, what the fuck is life like? What is
anybody doing? Suddenly taxes were for them were fucking nothing.
What do you mean, Like they had Reagan, so taxes
were rich? Oh right, nothing, and they were doing things
like yeah they had they were rich. So they would
sell their Porsche and send their money to the ranch

(57:53):
and then go live there. And they didn't. They just
worked for free. So it was like they were giving
all their materialistic stuff. They were like, well, I'm going
to help out and that's going to make me feel
better spiritually, yea. And then they can kind of escape
like the structured world of taxes and having a job
and all that stuff. They're gonna put their whole life

(58:13):
into this commune with the safety net of knowing that
they could fucking leave it at any point if they
wanted to. Yeah, because their parents still live in a
really nice house in like Marina del Rey or whatever.
They all had to wear red, pink, red or maroon
clothing and when they joined up like this, was the change.
They would I can't, I can't. There's a word for it.

(58:34):
Joining up is not it, but like they would go
through like something, and then initiation, it's like an initiation
the bagwa shue raj Niche would put a mendela around
their neck, which is a beaded wooden necklace that would
have a big picture of them, of him on the
on it. And so they were like all these so
all these people wearing red with these wooden bead necklaces

(58:57):
suddenly start showing up in central Oregon. And if you
ever been to anywhere like this or even central California, Ye,
it's like a little strip of Arkansas right here on
the west coast. Like it's very farm it's very Republican,
it's very conservative. It's it's people who live far away

(59:18):
from other people. They like things their way, and they
don't want a bunch of fucking weirdo rich hippies in
red clothing coming into their town thirty forty eighty at
a time. And that's exactly what was happening. So it's
kind of awesome because and they were all wearing red
so and like with shit in their hair and like
and they weren't. It wasn't a hippie thing, like, they

(59:40):
weren't like drugged out, like hey, peace love. They were
kind of like trying to trying to take over.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
Oh did you see did you watch The Leftovers?

Speaker 1 (59:49):
I did, like the first I'd say the first seven episodes,
like the people in the white clothing that were like
the smoking Yeah, yes, it sounds like that to me. Yeah,
just so creepy where they kind of like when you
see there's tons of great documentaries about this whole thing,
and there's great footage, but it's there is a lot
of that, Like there's a little of the Leftover like

(01:00:11):
dancing in Golden Gate Park like ecstatic dancing and group
kind of hangouts and stuff, but it's so much more.
There's so much more of a business aspect, and you
can tell that they're trying to monetize spirituality.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Well, the difference between a seventies cult and an eighties
cult is so probably so fucking different, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
For sure, And this one had that thing of like
they just started showing up in droves and freaking locals
out badly, sure, and in their weird red clothing and
they were kind of like even the one documentary. I
was watching the guy who now is probably in his
like late sixties, seventies, gray hair, like clearly not in
it anymore. But so they were just aggressive because they

(01:00:54):
were just so quick to be like, well, you you
were a racist, or you were against our religion, or
you were anti you know, you were xenophobic or whatever.
It's like, yeah, maybe except for that. If you were
starting a commune with ninety people, that's one thing. But
basically they ended up having two thousand followers on this.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
Trade of the town.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
They infiltated a town Antelope and Madras, where they're like
kind of they're two closest towns, and so basically what
happened is instead of it being a small commune, they
turned into this big thing. And they had to keep
going to the city and applying for more permits and
more permits and saying we needed for this, we need
oh sorry, we didn't realize and we just need it
for this, and so the city had to start going no,

(01:01:37):
like this is crazy, this land is not zoned for
you guys to start a city. Essentially, and at first
they were trying to be they didn't want to come
off as like hicks and like people who are like
against outsiders. They didn't want to come off that also
them coming there, they actually did the thing that they

(01:01:59):
were saying they were building. They built a dam. They
brought the water table up, Like the whole the entire
valley that they lived in became bright green. When you
see these, it's kind of amazing these helicopter shots of
the area and it's like bright green. And they have
like or they started organic farming, so it's like kind

(01:02:20):
of a mass organic farming where somebody in this documentary
was saying, once they had everything built up and there
was like a main street and there was there was
a mall. They had a mall, they had restaurants. They
would give tours to locals, like you can come and
see what we're doing. We're not like trying to be
hide anything that in the around Central Organ They'd be like,

(01:02:42):
the only good place to eat is it as raj
niche Porum was the name of the town, or you know,
would eventually they tried to make into a town. People
would go there to eat because it was like really
good organic food. It was kind of like the original
the original farmed a table situation, but they were doing
it with this. It was a culty version of it essentially,

(01:03:09):
because they still did you know, and he also the
Bogwan tree rag Niche would just come out and sit there,
but he wasn't talking, so he wasn't like preaching or
saying anything to anybody they would like. And sometimes he
just wouldn't come out at all, Like so he when
he first got there, he would make appearances, but then
after a while he just wasn't doing it. And basically

(01:03:30):
there was just a bunch of people like manual labor
farming and doing shit for free and dedicating their whole
life to like building up this what eventually was becoming
a city.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
That's what I was thinking, is I bet the locals
would be so much more staked if you were bringing
in jobs.

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
But you're not. You're just higher.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
You know, everyone who just is a fucking cult member
is doing it for you. The people it was good
for were people that owned back hose and like big
like Caterpillar earth movers. There was a couple people it
was good for, but not on the whole. No, on
the whole it was like And the other problem was
so they they wanted these permits. They wanted to keep

(01:04:10):
expanding and they started being told no, so they started infiltrating,
like the local government. So they would go in and
like demand, they would demand to see permits or files
or papers at the Waco County Courthouse. And there's two
people that work there because it's like a courthouse in
the middle of nowhere in this county that does not

(01:04:31):
have that many people, and forty of them would go
down and be like, we demand to see it. So
it started. It started off very aggressive and of course
made it was already like you're all wearing red and
jumping around, and now you're like, we want to see this,
we want to do this. Then they have they have
elections and they end up electing a bunch of the rajniches.

(01:04:54):
They're called onto the city council or onto the whatever,
county whatever it would be a county people, county group,
so that they suddenly now are the ones that are
because they're trying to get their people in so that
they get told yes, smart because what they want to do,
they really did want to build a city and they
wanted to bring more and more people there and they're

(01:05:16):
starting to make serious money. And the other reason they
said that they had the tours is because they want
to make sure parents who like those rich parents were
talking about, could come and see where their children were
and what they were dedicating in their life to. There
wasn't some secret cult that they could come and shop
in the mall and buy a bunch of red clothes

(01:05:36):
if they wanted to, or eat their organic pizza or whatever,
and that everything was chill, and then they'd dance around astatically.
There'd be discos. There was like a whole thing, and
then they'd leave going I guess it's fine, and keep
on giving them the money. And they were making a
shit fucking ton of money.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
The other thing was that the Bogwa tree raj niche
said when he he went into silence, and he put
that woman an on Sheila, who was also known as
Shila Silverman because she was from India, but she had
married an American here and she you know, was an

(01:06:16):
American citizen. I guess mon on Sheila, who everyone called Sheila,
she was in charge. And then he had four other
women beneath her and they ran the entire city. And
his he the Bagwan tree Regini, said he wanted a
city run by women, and he wanted like strong and
strong women to be in power, and what would a

(01:06:39):
city look like if women, if it was a matriarchy basically,
So everyone's kind of like into that idea because what
harm could there be if and they had these women
that were the tour guides that when you went there
to see that called your child had just moved to
and started wearing all red clothes, it would be all
these beautiful they called themselves the Twinkies, and they would
guide you around and be like, here's look, here's the mall,

(01:07:01):
and here's this, and I'm really pretty and we're all
great and we eat lettuce all the time and everything's good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
That's our fucking tour, the Twinky Tour.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
So it's just all they're trying to make sure people
have positive it's positive pr all the time. The problem
is the Jonestown cult and the Jonestown massacre had only
happened three years before. So aside from locals being locals
and not being that into a bunch of hippie weirdos

(01:07:31):
coming into their town, everybody, the press, everybody was scared
of anything like that happening in America.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
And it was close to San Francisco, where Jonestown started, right, Yeah,
I mean it was relatively not really like a plane
flight away, a long car right away, but still but yes,
closer than other places, and yes, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Where right you could drive up the five and get there.
But yes, I mean it's that sensitivity of however, many
people died of Jonestown eight hundred something like that, hundreds.
They're not going to just let a bunch of people,
you know, getting super into this one religion and starting

(01:08:15):
a city about it, because it's also the thing of
the separation of church and state and that idea of
like what's actually behind this. The other thing, too, was
that they were making so much money that the Bagwan
Tree Reginiche. One of his favorite things was rolls races,
and so by nineteen eighty four he had the largest

(01:08:37):
private collection of rolls roces in America. He had ninety
four Holy thought, who the fuck? And that was his
pro materialism thing. It didn't seem like other people got
to be very materialistic though, because I don't think they
were getting paid to like fucking run those back hoes
and like run entire huge lettuce farms or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
You don't fucking buying ninety four rurals, races with fucking
lettuce farms.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
No, no, there's some serious cash getting stacked that he
gets to spend. So his thing was he they were
because the relationship between the citizens of the Central Oregon
and the Rajnis was getting you know, he heated. Let's say,

(01:09:24):
he no longer was doing making appearances. So what he
would do was get into one of his many roles
races and drive. And so he would just drive down
the road and all the Rajies would line up in
their weird clothes and they would jump and stand and
clap and sing and whatever, and he would drive by
and wave to them and drive with no hands. He
would do his hands in prayer hands and then bow

(01:09:46):
to them as he was driving them. Mind. And that
was the really famous like that's what I remember as like,
you know, a twelve years old radio. Yo. Yeah, you
can watch all this on YouTube. It's pretty amazing. And
and they showed it on the news all the time
because it was this thing. I was like, oh, this
is an interesting starting up up in Central organ And

(01:10:07):
then it was like, hey have you seen this lately.
Well then after a while, their side of things say
that they tried to have a festival, and the local
authorities said, you can't have a festival unless you have
a security force, and so they started walking around with Uzzi's.
So when the he would go to do his drive,

(01:10:28):
there would be two dudes with like all the red
clothes but then with like berets to the side carrying Uzzi's.
Is theres are always bad. Barts are not a good sign.
So they basically have their own security force. And it
was serious enough where they got trained at the State
Police Academy. They went off and got trained as a

(01:10:50):
security force and came back they feel better though, I mean, yeah,
they called themselves a peace force, because you need Uzzi's
when you're peace force. I mean. Now, the other thing
is they were getting threatened a lot of course, you
know a lot of letters, a lot of phone calls,
and they owned a hotel in Portland that got bombed

(01:11:12):
like a firebomb. So once the fire bombing started happening,
there was more and more guns that and like the
security force thing kind of came up more and more.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Canyone die in that, because I wonder if they did themselves,
you'll like be like to get sympathy or like get
a reason to get those guns.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Would they actually would use the negative press when they
when they would like something like that, anything where it
showed that the locals or people of Oregon were like
after that, because there were protesters that would be on
the city, they would be like, get the hell out
of town. They would take that footage and send it
to the other I want to say ash Rams, but

(01:11:49):
I don't know if that's the right word. There are
other hangouts around the country and around the world, sex
sex sex. I wonder if those they would send that
footage so that and then go look how we're being attacked,
and they would send them money.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
But I wonder if those protesters were fucking Ashram dudes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Oh, I like it, Like so they're just propaganda. Yeah,
it could be, I believe, but I think that people
were super like, sure, get the fuck out of here,
Like what are you guys doing? Yeah, So basically we'll
just cut to this part because there's a lot of
stuff about permits that I was like writing, writing, writing,
and I'm like, I don't know, does anyone give a
shit about this permit action?

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
Did they get them? Yes or no?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
No? Well, basically the answer was no. So then they
started getting voting themselves onto board. They basically infiltrated the
politics in the community around so that they could start
making all the decisions for themselves and make this city
as big as they wanted. So but here's where they
went wrong. They there was a big important vote coming up,

(01:12:55):
so they started busting in homeless people from all around
the country to come and live at the Rajniorum in
the city. They were saying that they were doing it
for this their spiritual life and because they wanted them to.
But these were all just homeless people that they were
finding on the streets. And these people would get there
and they'd be given clothes, they'd be given three hots

(01:13:17):
and a cot and be like, hey, you can go.
You can go work on the lettuce farm and have
something to do. And there's it's sad. There's guys that
like talk to the cameras and be like, yeah, there's
nothing for me out there. I might as well be
here and actually have something to do, and like I'm not,
I don't have to worry about getting stabbed on the streets. Sure,
so they ended up busting in four thousand homeless belee

(01:13:39):
fuck so that in the next wasco county election. They
basically take start to take over politics. And what ends
up happening is the people that were in place, you know,
the people that were already the county supervisors or whatever
they are, did this thing where when everybody showed up
to vote that day, they said, if you were newly

(01:14:00):
registered to vote, you we were putting a like a
ban on your vote and you and we were taking
this to court.

Speaker 4 (01:14:08):
That's not how that works.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Well, but you can do I guess there's some some circumstances.
They were like pulling out an old law or whatever
of like saying you can vote, but you have to
first go to this trial and like be it a
hearing to prove that you're here to vote, that you're
really a citizen of this of the city. Because they
knew exactly what they were doing, and so then they
tried to turn it into this woman Sheila tried to

(01:14:32):
be like, I'm voting for you. This is because a
lot of these people were like Vietnam vet yeah, homeless people.
I mean, they were the people that had been screwed
over truly by society, and so conceptually it was a
really nice idea, but once that happened and of course,
nobody was going to go to the hearing. Nobody was
going to go sit there and be talk to a

(01:14:54):
judge about how they yes they were here and they
were really a citizen and blah blah blah. So so
few of them went that an and like ninety five
percent of the locals showed up to vote, you know,
highest voting turnout ever for the actual locals that none
of the Rajani She's won anything, and it went completely

(01:15:15):
in favor of the LOCALSPS. Yeah, well then they just
dump all these homeless guys. Most of them went to Portland,
but they just they just sent them out of town,
oh my god, and dumped them in just like close by,
and like no local places of like well here you
go didn't work by. Yeah, and that's when it all

(01:15:36):
started to fall apart, where it was like, yeah, all
of this, Like you could say that you're doing this
for the spirituality. That would be a beautiful thing if
there's a place for people to go who are homeless,
who are on the streets and have nowhere to go.
But this is clearly not a charity or anything. You're
not going to let these people come here and stay.
You were clearly using them. Yeah that sucks. And yeah,

(01:15:57):
once that vote didn't turn out the way they wanted
it to, it all got exposed. The other thing that
happened was that they went to check on the housing.
The local sheriff want to check on the housing for
these people because there was kind of like a tent city.
They didn't have enough like building housing for them because

(01:16:18):
there's so many, but they did have tent like tent
housing that they used during their festivals, and so the
sheriff was going up there to make sure that there
was like proper housing for that many people. And when
they got up there, there was like a huge caterpillar
earth mover that was blocking the entire road and the
sheriff had to basically turn around and go back to town.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
So they were like an actual caterpillar and I got
so excited jameson the giant fee.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Oh but a caterpillar that huge though, great, go on, sorry,
that's upsetting.

Speaker 4 (01:16:52):
I know it would be all like furry.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
So anyway, they basically are like, we got a colin
higher ups. This is crazy and something's really happening. Yeah,
so sorry, I have to get to my page. So
they have officials from around the county go and visit
and be like, what the hell is going on? And

(01:17:18):
while they were there, I'm trying to find the name.
Can you while you're looking? Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:17:27):
Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
So the governor of was it the governor of San
Francisco who went to Jonestown to check on everyone?

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Yeah? I don't think he was the governor. I may
he was something. Yes, he was a big wig.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
So he shows up to check on his citizens who
had moved to Jonestown and he ends up getting shot
and killed by which triggered and started off the Jonestown massacre?

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
And that was three years before those fucking city officials like,
we're looking into this shit. How terrifying must that be?

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
And a lot of them talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
It's really an interesting thing worth watching because they were
so scared. At first, they were scared to look like
racists and to look like people that were just rejecting
people can't. But then after a while they knew that
they couldn't, Like they knew that this had turned into
a thing that that was beyond just them, like going
in and arresting people, that that was not possible, And

(01:18:27):
the sheriff who at the time, I mean like now
he's aged very well, because now he must be like
in his late sixties, and at the time he was
like in his thirties, and he was like. Someone goes, well,
are they like a person from the presco's are they
blocking the road? And he goes, I don't know, they're
blocking it, but I mean it's blocked, so I guess
we'll just go like they're absolutely not trying to be

(01:18:49):
in conflict with these people, but at this point it's
like a welfare check, yes exactly, like they're trying to say, yeah,
we just want to make sure everything is kind of
it's what you're claiming it is. Well, then Sheila shows
up and she's like she's like kind of in everybody's face.
It's pretty interesting too when you see her. She gets
interviewed a couple times and she actually picks up her

(01:19:11):
hand and points into the face of the interviewer or
into the camera where it's like aggressive, what are you doing? Yeah,
like if this is also chill and spiritual, but you
can tell she's like it turned into like, yeah, we're
like you're fighting for your commune. But after a while
that's not really what's happened is a power move, yeah,
and a power grab, like they're trying to take over

(01:19:33):
like they want they want they want the state for
themselves or they want the area for themselves. Okay, So anyway,
I can't find this guy's name. Basically basically the fuck
the oh, I don't have the name, but it's three
county commissioners. So they went to tour the ranch and

(01:19:56):
while they were there, they were given glasses of water
and and when they get home they become seriously ill.
Come on and they had been poisoned with salmonella.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
Holy fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
But they can't prove that it like they can't prove it,
Like they get very ill, and then they're just kind
of out and then so that they can't go to work.
Then it took them a full year to tie it
all back and get all the proof. Then around central
and southern Oregon there are reported seven hundred and fifty

(01:20:35):
one cases of salmonella and people forty five people were hospitalized.
There were no fatalities, but all of these people got
it like one after the other. And it turned out
that Rajnichies were going out to restaurants and sprinkling salmonella

(01:20:55):
onto salad bars and putting it into salad dress.

Speaker 4 (01:20:59):
How do you get salmonilla to sprinkle?

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
In my mind, like you have to ring out a
steak into a fucking I.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Mean, they had this setup that they had on these farms, yeah,
and these ranches. I mean, I don't I could not
tell you, but they figured it out. And I mean,
like they could have had like labs or other things
on these farms. I'm not sure. All they know is
that they were that these salad bars were poisoned. And
the idea was that they were going to keep voters

(01:21:30):
from the It was the idea, Jesus. And then the Uh,
the last thing that happened, which I think is kind
of amazing, is a ragni she named ma Anan Pooja
heard that politician James Kameni was at Saint Vincent Hospital,

(01:21:53):
so she went there and the idea was that she
was going to inject a deadly mixture into his intervenous
tube that would stop his heart.

Speaker 4 (01:22:02):
Holy fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
But when she arrived, uh, and when got into his
hospital room, she saw that he didn't have an intervenous hookup,
but he was just laying in the bed. So she
just panicked and turned around and left. But they act
the plan was they later found out when they raided
the place and got all the like secret documents and everything,

(01:22:24):
that the plan was they were going to kill him.

Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
Yeah, this was so basically this was Sheila's plan to
like take over the war again. So she fucking fled.
She fled to West Germany.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
Dear.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
Oh. Actually when they when the cops finally got in,
the ultimate plan was they were going to put poison
into Oregon's water supply uh and people. They also had
all of the rooms bugged at the ranch and they
were they had like files on Rajni. She's in the ranch,

(01:23:00):
so they like they weren't only going to do harm
to outsiders. They also were like keeping people in line
and doing weird shit within the ranch, Like there was
a lot of crazy shit going on the Bogwan tree
Shrie Regniche. But she basically left. He came out and
like agreed with the like cooperated with the authorities, told

(01:23:22):
him everything broke his three year silence, uh, and then
basically tried to get onto a plane. Uh, And he
tried to flee by lear jet. A plane came in
and it was a big enough place where they could
land a plane and then they got off there was
the flight plan was that they were going to refuel

(01:23:45):
in Charlotte, North Carolina, and then they were going to
go back I guess to India. But Charlotte, they landed
and the cops arrested him good and they deported him
because he was the whole time he was on a
visa that was like had expired long ago. Then they
found her and she served three years of a sentence

(01:24:08):
before she was deported off of US soil and the
Bagwan Tree Rejmis died in nineteen ninety the camp was
converted into a Christian camp, but uh so's legit now, Yeah,
But then in nineteen ninety six it was destroyed by
fire and all all of the structures were destroyed.

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
Damn it. That'd be so cool to do a live
episode from there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
Oh my god, can you imagine we drive up to
that lake. But also just to keep your eyes peeled,
because he eventually before he died, he changed his name
to Oshow, which is actually a Japanese honorific, and so
if you see quotes on the internet from Oshow, it's

(01:24:53):
actually the Bagwan Tree region. Yeah, just so you know,
it's not some wise Japanese stage from long.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
What does he quote shot on the internet?

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
What does he do? Yeah, you see quotes from oshow
all the time, and it's that stuff of like, you know,
you know, we're here for a short amount of time.
It's all it's like shit, I've said, I mean, it's
just it's just that stuff of like you know, time.

Speaker 4 (01:25:15):
He's still practiced.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
No, he's dead, but he's like because he changed his name,
he doesn't have the mark of like the Bagwan Tree.
Roach is known as the cult leader, the pinky cult
leader who tried to poison everybody. Oh, show just sounds
like some guy playing a flute underneath an old tree,
but it's actually this guy. Fuck dude, I know that's cool. Yeah,
fucking cults, man, cults, dude, my fave.

Speaker 4 (01:25:39):
They're so good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
Anyway, that's mine.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
No one died, my apology.

Speaker 4 (01:25:44):
No, they tried.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
They tried, and they they really thought it. They tried hard. Also,
the locals tried too. There was lots of like bad
bumper stickers that were like gun sights with you know,
it was not a good time in the early eighties
and Central organ that's so cool. It was crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:26:01):
Oh, we're supposed to talk about one thing though. It
was good.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Sweet, Okay, let's tell each other. I think yours is
that you buy your niece fucking Doc Martins for Christmas.
Don't do mine for me. So we got into a
fight at this at the positive par Okay, well, then
mine is that you buy your fucking.

Speaker 4 (01:26:19):
Mes Doc Martin. Because that's the coolest thing I've ever
heard in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
That was a pretty good one.

Speaker 4 (01:26:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
Uh, let's not do it anymore. I mean, we have
to think this hard about. We just take a second. Yeah, well,
let's give up. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
Life is good.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
There was something while we were talking that I thought of,
and then I'm like, don't sidebar it again. What I
can't remember? I wish I should have written it down.
We should take notes during the week, and we should
take notes while we're talking. We should treat this like
a fucking thing. I don't know those it's working, it's working.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Well, Oh my god, there's so many things in my
life that are good and I just can't remember one
of them. I guess that I'm moving into a fucking
real apartment like a grown up personally, just got an
apartment and I'm scared, but it's it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
Yeah, that's very exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
You know what the thing this week that I'm that
I'm happy about my dish I'm gonna have a dishwasher.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
What's yours?

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
Fuck? Yeah, it's fucking Real Detectives. Oh yeah, that's it. Sorry, No,
I was happy for you. There's a new there's not.
It's not a new show. Actually, it just the first
season is on Netflix, but the second season, I think
is on regular TV if you DVR it. And someone
tweeted us and said, thanks so much for the recommendation

(01:27:47):
of Real Detective. I love it and I'm obsessed with it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
You're walkome.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
We never did.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:27:52):
We didn't give that recommend it. You're welcome, But it's this,
here's why I love it. It's like I survived, but it's
first person from the guy who solved the crime, and
they're like you love them, You're so in love with them.
They're so like low key, manly but super haunted. Because

(01:28:14):
there's these cases that you're like, the case is really good,
Oh my god, they're incredible, and there are there like
real photo like crime scene photos. No, there's really good reenactments.

Speaker 4 (01:28:28):
That a thing, really good reenact there.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
It is because they actually there's actors you recognize that
are in these reenacts. Fun and they do it in
a way where you're just it's kind it's similar to
I don't know any Yeah, I think Crime to Remember
is the only one that has really good reenactments. It's
similar to that, but it's less artistic and more down
to business of like the guy tells you this is

(01:28:50):
how it was for me, and then you see him
do the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
I'm into actors that I know, and not ones that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
I'm like, oh god, you're struggling and you got paid
one hundred and ten dollars for this renact right, and
then you had a person to be raped. Yeah, and
then you're just in that red bra lane. Yeah. No,
this is very cool. And also it's because it's from
I just there's something about a homicide detective that's just
like insanely it's just here, they're my broad pit.

Speaker 4 (01:29:19):
I get it, I dig it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Well, it's just bold. It's like what a hard job, totally,
what a horrible job totally? Yeah, pretty cool. Good bless them, good,
bless go to my favorite murder dot com for things
and stuff and thanks for listening. Thanks everybody. We like
you guys, we sure do stay sexy and don't get murdered.

(01:29:44):
Bye bye, bye, Elvis.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
You want a cookie? Oh did that work?

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
It did.

Speaker 4 (01:29:50):
It's Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Bye bye