50 - The Golden Anniversary Episode

Rock, paper, scissors... it's My Favorite Murder! On this episode, Karen and Georgia delve into the mystery of the Somerton Man and discuss the 1984 bioterror attack by followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So you get it out now you they're not supposed
to know about your pre show.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Cry, Hello everybody recording.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I wish you guys knew what a nightmare it was
from when Karen got here in my apartment until we
started recording.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I just asked for an eight minute sob before we start,
just to get it out. Yeah, it's better, is it?
For me?

Speaker 1 (00:47):
This is my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's right, that's Karen, that's Georgia.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's started.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
There's nothing worse than when we do it correctly. I
feel like there's it feels terrible to do it right.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, this is that kind of podcast like this isn't that,
This isn't there's no second takes.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Although I have to say I would love Steven would
ever get us act together for a little bit of uh,
just a little bit of intro music, can we please?
Wouldn't it be fun just.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Play like your theme song like out loud in the apartment.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah or yeah, oh you could do that. Or if
you've got a keyboard, throw it, throw it over to
the Bosonova rhythm.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, yep, get us pumped, get.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Us a little just a little like talking intro music.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Like loud enough that it's over the crying over Karen sobbing.
So they're like, I can ignore it.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
I wind the sobbing out slowly and you intro.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
This and that way I don't accidentally introduce a different podcast.
That's good idea?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, I mean, or whatever comes out? What if we
just have it as the whatever comes out allowance?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
That reminds me, oh, what are we gonna call our tour?
So we have a name or we don't, But I
think it'd be funny to have just a bunch of
ideas of note and like, never settle on one.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay, well then my first idea is Monsters of Rock.
What's your first idea? The f word murder Mystery Tour?
Great man, we have to fucking give a cut to
someone's dad. Whoever made up that name? Angry this episode?
We could also do just we could call ourselves the

(02:28):
gin Blossoms. I'm all minor band jokes. It's not good.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Should we do?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Uh No?

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, I guess I don't need one. I mean we were
a sign behind us now we like at the show.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
No, who's gonna make it? Gonna who's gonna hang hang it?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Or make it? Stephen just raise We're just gonna We're
gonna keep piling ship on you that you have to
fucking do.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
What if we call it Steven's Piles Tour, the Piles
of Stephen.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
What's that mean?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
It's just piles of shit he has to do tour? Oh,
I get it, I get it.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
It's called I like that.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
You immediately lost track of what.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Was happening piles. But like I thought, I was thinking,
like like Gomer piles. So I was thinking abong Stevens
Stephen piles like Gohmer pile.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Oh yeah, no, no, no, no great? Uh? What if
we cancel the tour because this is such a problem
it can't be solved. Cool? What if we call it
the dry Shampoo Tour? Because I swear to god, I
planned on bathing before I came here, but I didn't.

(03:35):
I was doing other stuff. This is a safe place
to not bathe. Oh my god, but I the amount
of dry shampoo I've started depending on, Yeah lately, do
you use it too?

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
And your hair looks full and it looks like you
look like a mod like yeah, like a.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Mod model model Ooh.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Like it's full and bouncy and I fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh, okay, thank You's great. I'm gonna start doing that. Then.
I also think I might need more LA. It's not
we should not.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
I love it. Har thanks uh yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Oh you guys loved the year end Guy Brenham spectacular episode.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yes, thanks for all your positive feedback on that. Yeah,
we're gonna definitely have him back on.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
I don't love that it was one of your favorites
because I'm sorry, what have we been doing this fucking
fifty episode?

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Hey, look we get it. Yeah, yeah, we get it.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
We get it. You like when there's someone else talking
to anyone else, anyone else who has correct information.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Look, fine, we'll do it that.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
We'll fine, we'll fucking smart, Okay, and we'll do it.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Watch this. Watch how much you don't enjoy this.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I'm gonna name every state in every Roman numeral right now.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
I can kick off a corrections corner by saying, yes,
the Sandra Bullock movie is two weeks notice, and yes,
I said it was called six weeks notice while claiming
to be her number one fan.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Two weeks is not enough.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I like six weeks. I think I feel like is
the legal amount.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'm sorry, six weeks like I'm sorry, two weeks is
like me getting fired from being a secretary, you know
what I mean? Like, but six weeks is like when
you're a fucking lawyer, like Sandra Bullock was.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
You're a professional? Thank you right? She was, she was
a lawyer. I don't even know that very good. I
just felt like the movie took so long. It couldn't
have been two weeks that she when.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
She gave Do you really like that movie? Like legitimately old?

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Watch it every time?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
I know you will, But like, is it like a
you know, it's a bad movie.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Watch No, it's not a bad movie. H Grant and
Sandra Bullock are equal parts. He's the British version. They're
the equal person of themselves. Oh, they're the mirror reflection
of each other. They're like riffy yet real, and they're
kind of like mumbly bumbly.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
So they're playing.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
You know, they're they're attracted to each other.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, but they're playing brother and sister.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
But which is the part? I like, it's a real
Game of Thrones situation, and yet they're there's a corporate
element to it, which I also love.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
It just bums me out, like I see movies like
that and I'm like, oh, what if you had to
fucking live your life by working in an office every
fucking day.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know, part of the part that I love in
that movie, And there's details like this that always stick
out to me. You can tell when either the person
that wrote the movie or Sandra Bullock herself. There's a
part where she orders Chinese food, like this isn't how.
It's just not how. People like the idea is that
she's going to totally binge on Chinese food, but it's
way too much Chinese food, Like you already get a

(06:32):
ton of Chinese food when you just get four or
five things, like we know, here's what you get.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
You get a poultry and you get maybe get a shrimp,
and then you get a noodle or a rice and
maybe some like like wig rolls because you want to
crunchy thing.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes that's the first thing that you need. But yeah,
four things entree and maybe you're gonna add the fifth.
In this thing, she sits on that phone and she
just keeps ordering dishes and it's like, now I believe
that you've never eaten anything besides like an apple and
a cup of yogurt, because you've never allowed yourself to
have Chinese.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
That's a scene in it, like here's how bum she is.
I'm pregnant.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is that saying a little bit? It's no, but it's
just her thing. It's like to show that she's so
down or girl and normal. She orders like enough Chinese
food for seven Chinese families and they usually have four children.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
It's one of those things where it's like and people
tweet this all the time, like I ordered Chinese and
they brought and it was just for me, and they
brought eight utensils because that's how much I ordered. Like
I'm such a pig. I'm cute, you know, and you're
like fucking shut up. Like there's that. There's this amazing
instagram that I'm obsessed with and I don't know exactly
what it's called, but it's basically called you didn't Eat that.
And it's these photos of models and like actresses that

(07:42):
are like opening their mouth and putting a food thing
near it and taking a photo of it. But like,
you didn't eat that. That's what everyone knows.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
It's always a carb. Like it's always like I'm looking
out burger, I'm gonna dance with this bull of spaghetti.
But you've never actually had that in your mouth. I'm
going to dance with those bullets.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Oh my god. If you want to make bath into
one food product, that would it be. Because a spaghetti
bowl of spaghetti sounds great.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, I think spaghetti and parmesan cheese mixed together. And
you just slip right into that.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Dude, that's what you got. What is wrong with it?

Speaker 2 (08:15):
That sounds so nice, That sounds so relaxing, just after
giving your six weeks notice, Yeah, you just get into
that bath.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Maybe order some Chinese door dash, some Chinese.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Postmates it straight into the bathroom or not.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
This isn't a commercial, by the way. Oh no, you
can slip into a commercial.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Nope, not at all. Oh we also need music before
the commercials because of it's coming so chatty. It's not
fair to tell we're not trying to do that.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
We're not like this isn't you guys know that we
don't know anything about like editing and fucking engineering and
being sneaky and like talking about states.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Clearly, here's the other mistake I made. Okay, when we
were talking with guy about legal shit and we were
talking about the murder of Harvey Milk, I had to
pop pipe up and say, and you I think you
said something like yeah, he was murdered by his coworker
and another politician, And I said, that's right, Dan Brown.

(09:12):
The person the person that murdered Harvey Milk was Dan White.
Dan Brown is the international best selling author of The
Da Vinci Drat, and he absolutely did not feel hard.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Paren's starting rumors is my favorite new corner.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
This is the gossip corner. Now did you know?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
But did Guy or Georgia myself not a correct you
not a beat.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Nope, no one even heard it.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Because here's the thing. We're allowed to say, whatever the
fuck queen want. This is our podcast. If you want
a factual podcast, go to what you missed in facts.
You know us three.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
We're cutting edge because like this whole thing of like
there is no reality anymore. We've been doing that since
last year.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Happening you know that. I also feel it's funny that you, like,
I get fucking everything wrong, but you're the one who
has corrections. This is so slowly. I'm just like, I
don't care.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh if you're if you're a bitch enough to fucking
tell me what I got wrong, then that sucks, but
I also think it's hilarious to get like when we
get shit wrong.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
I do too. There's people though I accidentally stumbled on
this email and I can't I was trying to find
Do you ever do that thing where you start an
email and then you have to go check something else.
This happens to me on my phone all the time.
I start to write an email and then I have
to go check, and I'm like, giving the person I'm
writing it to someone else's email, and I want to

(10:32):
double check to make sure I don't give them the
wrong email. So I leave the email, so I hit
save draft, but then I can't find it in my
drafts holder It's not there. Then I'm like, did I
send that email? Oh my god? And then I'm like,
and then what if I go back in do you
I started again? And then re send another email? So scared, I've.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Fucking punched my microphone in the face.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
This is something that I actually went through recently.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Do you do that?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I mean I have, I have done it once once before,
where now I'm gar to death that it's that idea
of is it in drafts or did you just send it?
It saves? It itself, so you can just close it.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Here this is.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
But sometimes my phone the phone quick enough so it's
like it just updated, but it really didn't do.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
You know what I do, which could be a mistake,
is I start to type in their email address in
the email I'm writing and it comes up, Oh, like
you're going to see see them, like you're seeing them
in neat But then don't forget to be like, oh yeah,
that kind of here's her email, and then you're like
you find it by seeing them, and then you're like.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Oh shit, that'd be the best You're you're talking about
a person that you're also giving their email to the person.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, but you shouldn't hire her on I think she's
a stupid. But anyway, get a hold of her anyway,
Like she's like she's going to suck everyone on that crew.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Ah, why was I even citing that example?

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Mistakes made? It's called my life?

Speaker 2 (11:51):
What was it? There's a reason I was saying that, Stephen,
what was.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
The reason six weeks now?

Speaker 1 (11:57):
I wasn't that, Stephen, You're too far back.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Put the phone. Put that microphone down.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
The phone is on a phone, Steve's on like a
payphone in the corner. Ste O Jesus, microphones are going
everywhere today, Stephen, can you get some better fucking props?
Are these props? Well, we're about I'm moving and so
this is about so exciting. I'll be like, I'm kind
of sad. This is our like setup. We need like video.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
When it's like March and you have full ac.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
People like in other parts of the country are like
March is cold. Nope, Nope.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Not here in fucking we're global warming town where we
are gonna five always.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
We're gonna have an episode live from the pool. I'm
going to fucking be living near Nice. We're gonna play
tennis and record at the same time.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Not me.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
No, we're gonna have I don't know how to play tennis.
We're gonna sit on hardwood floor. Everything about I can't.
So yeah, we'll let you know. But we need a
photo of like this events comes home drive, We'll have
him take a photo of ass right here.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
The day that I haven't bathed. You look great. You're
out of here.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
G D min what you had one more corner.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Oh, it was my the thing that that happened over Christmas,
my good story that I didn't tell you the whole
thing of so at my aunt Joe's house. Now my
family knows that I have a podcast at Murder. Many
are excited about it. Some don't like it and told
me right to my face, which is which is fun.

(13:39):
But my lovely aunt Joe said, well, wait, did you
know that Marty had a hand in the arrest of
the nightstalker? My cousin Martin, the oldest of all the cousins.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Who is the San Francisco policeman? Fuck our retirement? Who
was a cop in San Francisco for many years? He's
now retired? Uh was he had just started. He was
like just on the force. He was basically a beat cop.
And there was a burglary in the marina, and so
they went in and will. While they were looking at

(14:13):
the place that had been burgled, they found a set
of fingerprints and so they called the forensic team whatever
it's called. He told me the story on the phone,
actually because I was texting him of like how could
you never have told me that? And he was like,
we never talk. You're the most You're you're angelis. Stop

(14:34):
using me for crime. And then I was like, too bad,
tell me the story.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I'm sorry, you've been boring the whole time I've known you.
Suddenly you're interesting.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, this is these are all my cousins are fun.
But he tells me. So, they find a fingerprint on
the window sill. They called the guy the team to
come and get it, and then that fingerprint leads to
the identification of Richard Ramirez because so you know how
he started in a then he went up to San Francisco,
and then he went back down to La Okay. So

(15:04):
when he was in San Francisco, that fingerprint basically helped
identify him. And my cousin Marty was one of the
two cops.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
And you had that technology then where they could like
send fingerprints to places.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
I guess. So, I mean it was like the late nineties.
It was the late eighties. Yeah, I think it's eighty nine.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Like fax machines were in their prime.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
They've faxed over the request. Yeah, dude, that's so cool.
It was super exciting to me And I go, why
didn't you ever tell me this? And he goes, no
one's ever asked me about this or did you need
people talked about it? Yeah, that's what I said. And
the interesting thing he said was that in that break in. Uh,
Richard Ramirez stole a couple of things from this. You know,

(15:49):
the Marina is like super nice part of Sanrancisco. There
was a girl sleeping downstairs and he didn't know. Fucking God,
he didn't go downstairs. If he had gone down stairs,
she would be dead. And also I know she never
even knew he was there, so she was like the luckiest.
And also while Richard Ramirez was in San Francisco, there

(16:14):
was my cousin, My cousin Marty's daughter, Kathleen told me
this because she said she's always been scared to pull
her car into a garage she had to walk out
of it. Well, she's like, anytime I there's a garage,
I immediately like turn off the engine, but immediately close
the door.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Well, they have those garages that don't have doors, but
we have to pull into them and then walk back
out the garage door, and those are very.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Scary, very scary. So she's like super paranoid of anything
similar to that. Because when Richard Ramirez was in San Francisco,
there was a woman who got out of her car
and he was standing in the front of the garage
thing and he shot her and the bullet was deflected
by her keys and she survived.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Last night a key chain say come on now, don't don't, no,
you don't. Elvis just stopped touching me. When I said that,
Elvis was like the stupidest thing about how dear mom.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
So anyway, that was That was Christmas night. I got
to hear all these stories and it was It made
me so proud to be a kill Gariff. Was exciting.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
I'm proud of is his last name kil Gariff.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, that's awesome to Marty Kilgarriff. Then my cousin, and
then Mike is a sheriff, Sheriff kill Gariff shon, Yeah,
that's real.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh my god. My brother was an usher at a
movie theater when he was in high school, and so
he was Asher the usher.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Asher the usher, See dreams come true.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Everything's fine, Everything's gonna be okay. In twenty seventeen, well,
my second cousin wrote pink Cadillac.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
So there we go, the Bruce Springsteen song. Yeah, was it?

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, big cadillact. Yeah, he wrote that.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's awesome. He's in the bay, you too, twins, Well,
thanks for tuning in. This is called family Victories with
Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
This is called We're not losers. We have family or successful.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Someone's doing something.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Uh my favorite murder dot com has all well this
is in the end of the show. But no, you know,
we're about to get into some heavy fucking shit, right,
I don't know?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
So yeah, so take this information with you. There's a website. Sure,
we have a website.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Is there anything I feel like, I just I should
do something where I write stuff down and I think
of it throughout the week and then talk to you
about it.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Like make a list. Yep.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Sure, out when we get started with the Murders. Just
happy fiftieth episode?

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Oh my god? Is this it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:51):
This is episode fifty.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Oh my god, thank god for Steven even.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
You even met you mentioned it earlier and I was
like and then just and I was like, wait, really.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
No, Like that can't be right.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, this is episode fifty.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
You're hired.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Holy good?

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Isn't that great? And then the first episode I think aired.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
January fifteenth, I found it. I found the very first
Instagram account that our Instagram photo on my on my
Instagram that says like, hey, Karen, I started a conco
I'm going to post it on the fifteen.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
That's that's crazy. It's been almost a full yearly in
fifty episodes.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Fifty episode.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
That means our live show at the Orse Them is
going to be like it's the seventeenth.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Someone needs to know that it's.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
The twenty my favorite murder dot com.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yeah, thanks, go ahead and visit that website. Oh my god,
it's our fifty. Isn't it the twenty eighth? There's a
twenty four. No, it's.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Stephen.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
This is why we hired you. This is the market edit. Wow, congratulations, thanks,
congratulations to you too. Thank you. I feel like it's
not that hard to make fifty podcasts. Oh I'm sorry,
Oh I'm sorry, fucking kidding me.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Oh yeah, that's great. It's great. I mean it's great
because it's doing well and it's not sad.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yep, give God, bless America. Who's going first?

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Karen can't?

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Well, we just yeah, what, it's just good, it's cool,
it's good.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Okay, Yeah, am I going first?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
This?

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Wait, what's the date of the Orphume show?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
It's the twenty first.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
None of those guesses were right, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Vince and I recently had to look at the inscription
inside of his wedding ring to remember what day we
got married on.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Your anniversary and we were both wrong. That is inscription
is smart. That's a good idea.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, thank god we did that because we were both
like the six. I was like, he is the four
and it was a fifth.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
So we're awesome.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, Stephen. Part of your new job that we're higher
you for is that you need to remember who went
first last time.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Guy Brandon went first.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Last right, that's right, No one went first.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Year, New year, fresh start?

Speaker 1 (21:07):
All right, rock, paper, scissors, that's right, okay, one two three,
hit yeah, one two three hit fuck one two three hit.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
I get all right.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
First we got scissors and then I got paper and
she got rock, just guys. For those for those watching
at home.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yep, for those who have to know, all.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Right, well, this one is like I didn't want to
do this one because I feel like, well everyone not
like I do this a lot where it's like, well,
I've an obsessance. I was a kid, so I'm like
everyone knows this thing, but people keep asking us to
do it and it's fucking fascinating and there's information that
one doesn't know about. So I'm like I got into
it and I got really into it.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, cool.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
So this is the Tammin shooed. Oh yes, the Summerset man.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
We have just talked about this, but we haven't gone
into detail.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Right, so there's some really interesting info about it. So
when they get through the beginning.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
And have you solved it? I'm solved it.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Oh great, okay, well of course I in my head
have solved that.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
You know exactly what he Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
So on the morning of December one, nineteen forty eight,
a man's body is found on Somerton Beach, which is
in Australia. It's near Adelaide, which is like the fucking
has the best serial killers. The dead man is leaned
up against a wall. He's on the beach, leaned up

(22:31):
against a wall. He's wearing a suit and tie. He's
well dressed. There's an unlit cigarette on resting on his collar,
as if he was just like about to smoke, and
then it fell out of his mouth when he died,
you know.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
So his feet are crossed.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
There's no signs of struggle or distress, and people walking
by had seen him and thought he was just drunk.
He was like propped up that way. He had no
identification on him. What he had on him was an
unused rail ticket or a bus ticket, a comb, gum cigarettes,
and a scrap of paper with the phrase taman shoed

(23:09):
it's it's hard to find out exactly how to say
this tam and shooed spell it t A M A
N s U s h u d it's it's it's
not okay. It means finished in Persian okay. And the
labels had been clipped from his clothing. So the autopsy
doesn't find a cause of death, but notes that he

(23:30):
was in his forties, he had a fit physique, and
that they said that he had strong and high calf
muscles as if he were a dancer. It's just like me,
all right, But you can tell those things, supposedly. So
they take his railway ticket and they find his suitcase

(23:52):
at the train station, and they know it's his because
a spool of thread inside the case matches the thread
that he had used to repair one of his pockets.
And in the suitcases a shaving kit, clothes and a
coat was stitching that was specific to US tailoring, so
they thought he was from the US. Also, he had
Wrigley's Juicy fruit gum, oh, that's America. But if this

(24:14):
whole time, this had just been an ad for Wrigley's
and they're like, you can't tell it apart anymore, and
only American men chewed it back then Australian men didn't,
so okay. So the paper the tom Enshood was torn
out of a poetry book, Persian poetry book that was
extremely rare, and local librarians identified the phrase as the

(24:38):
very last two words. It's the Rubaiyat of Omar Kayam.
It's a book of poems from the twelfth century by
a Persian poet, and the theme of this book is that
one should live their life to the fullest and have
no regrets when it ends the becomen and the very
last line, it's almost like saying, the end was tom schud,

(24:59):
which is finished. And for some fucking reason, that was
in his pocket.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
So a dude comes forward and says that he had
actually found this book in the backseat of his car
around the same time and around the same place, like
someone had tossed this book into the back seat of
his car, and it had those two lass words ripped
out of it, and in the book that the guy

(25:27):
had found were a bunch of lines that were code.
It seemed to be code. They didn't make any sense,
but they're all capital letters, and the letters all kind
of seem like how English words would start. So the
theory is that the Somerton man was poisoned. There was

(25:48):
no trace of poison found in his system, but the
pathologists who performed the autopsy said that his spleen had
grown to three times its normal size and that his
liver was damaged. And he said, quote, since the death
could not have been natural, and he said, the poison
I suggested was a barbituate or a soluble hypnotic, which

(26:08):
is sleeping pills. But no foreign substance was found in
his body. But most of these barbituates like kind of
go away within a couple of days. So it seems
like he was poisoned, but there was no poison actually
found in his body.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
And then code.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Breakers have tried to solve the code that's in the
actual book and like, okay, so there's these these like
a bunch of letters, and they think it stands for
it's time to move south. It's time to move to
South Australia. Moseley Street, which is like so stupid, and
I think that they just made up like it sounds ridiculous.

(26:43):
The letters are it T and T and they came
up with it that way to mostly.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
So you're just saying, it seems like they're just reaching
for something that it could mean. Yes, but however, homever.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
However, there's also a phone number, an unlisted phone number
in the book, and it belongs to a former army
nurse who lives on Mosley Street.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh, it's not so stupid.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Maybe well maybe they knew that afterwards and made that up,
because that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Okay, why,
I don't know. It's just like that's all.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, because is it? Because it's like the secret code
and then all it says is like a place it's
like not even that interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah, or it's time to move to South Australia Mosley Street.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Why would anyone need to code that? Well, maybe maybe
it doesn't mean what it sounds like. It means, like
maybe yeah in code where yeah, where it's like move
means something sinister. Okay, so the down down the street
from where he dies is Mosley Street, where, uh, it's

(27:49):
a five minute walk to where the person whose phone
number where she lives. Her name is Joe Thompson and
she lives on Mosley Street. She when the cops go there,
she's like, oh, he is, But actually I gave that
exact book to Lieutenant Alfred Boxall, who she had served with.

(28:09):
So she doesn't know who this person is. There's this
fucking rare book of poems that she had given to
someone she had served with. And you did in World
War two? Just give a person a book of poems.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
No, no, no, they were probably boring, right.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
I mean that's not You're not like, oh here's the
rubiat Yeah, see you later, Palell.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
No, I give everyone a copy of fucking Hitchhiker's Guide
to the Galaxy that I fall in love with.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
No, No, I don't poems.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
I mean, I've done it, but I doms are a
big deal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
If someone gives you a book of poems, they're into you.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
And it's like it's a rare book of beautiful poems.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah. She spent like forty books at a bookstore for sure.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah. So she's like, I don't know who that is,
but that book sounds familiar. I gave it to this dude,
and so they they are like, well, this dude must
be the Somerset Man. But then he turns up in
forty nine and he still has his copy of his
book and was attached, so it's not him, but he
has a copy of the book like you know him.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Okay, so they could he sorry, could he just as
a cover have gotten a second copy?

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Or like what if it was just like they show
a photo of it. It's like duck taped into the
fucking last page of the book. He just like just
really shitty. He's got crayon and it's like written in yes,
totally yes what you're saying. So people started to speculate
that Lieutenant Boxall was working for the military intelligence at

(29:42):
the time, and maybe the Summerton Man was a Soviet
spy and he was poisoned by Boxall or some other agent.
So he went to visit this woman who had given
this man a copy of the book, and they were
all spies and maybe you know. It's like it's really interesting, okay.
But Boxall himself dismisses a quote as that's quite a

(30:05):
melodramatic thesis say that in Australian voice, I don't, I can't.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Oh, I can't I can't. They always sound like everything
goes up at the end. They no matter what they're saying,
they sound like they're kind of excited even when they're
That's why I was listening. I told her. I was
listening to Case File over the break when I drove
to San Francisco. It's great and to listen to somebody
very seriously talk about murder but have their incline the
intonation go up at the end is so enjoyable to me.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Because it's like an exclamation mark at the end of
every sentence.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, just kind of sounds like everything's all right even
though it's murder.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Do you know what happened over the I forgot to
tell you this. At New Year's Eve, I was at
Jodoros's house and there was an Australian girl there who
was from Adelaide, and I was like, I did the
thing of you guys have great murders, and she was
She wasn't like, yeah, here's what I remember. She was like, oh,
I know, she was very sweet, but by Australia has

(31:04):
the best murders. Tell me about that and one million
of them and one of them just got She didn't
know about the fucking serial killer murder who just got solved.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
The Uh, that's I just case file guy just told
me about that shit.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
We forgot to talk about detective new detectives.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
And we'll talk about it at the end. That'll be
our thing. It's not new detectives either, it's real detective.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
I know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
The truth is it's the Claremont killer.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yes, yes, they just are like she didn't know about that, right,
which I know is like asking someone in Texas if
they know about the murder, and Okay.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's just why don't you care? It's just like get involved,
get involved in the the intense serial killing that's happening
in your community.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Like murder is fun.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Wait, hold on though, is Claremont anywhere near Adelaide? I
think so.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
I mean it's a near Perth, per which has some
fucking cool murders.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
But our Perth and a lady even in any way, don't.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Care if we found out, if we found out that
a fucking serial killer like we did recently had been
caught finally in fucking Queen or not Queen, So like somewhere,
you know, what's our work place.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
What's a what's a faraway place? Uh? New York.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
There you go. We would we would know and be
fucking interested because it's fucking interesting.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
I'm sorry, but like, don't come at me. Sorry, don't
come at me with oh really.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Well, Also, if you're at a party, look, we've talked
about this eighty thousand times. What else is there to
talk about. We were all bored, there's nothing to do
to We were all like, I mean.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Look, it was awkward. She was the only one who
didn't know anyone. So I was trying to be nice
and like, you get to know her, yes, like I
was doing and she was a sweet and I was like,
oh cool, Like I was trying to fucking include her.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
I know the difference between talking about murder and attempted murder.
You're not coming at her, You're just trying to make
small talk.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
There were and I's so close. I could have killed
her if I wanted to, And guess what I wanted.
I didn't, and you shouldn't. This is why we became
friend at a party. Yeah, okay, So what's going on
Steven over here?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (33:13):
No, Perth is near Claremont. They're like right next to you.
Is on the other side.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's near Texas where we still known how a fucking
serial killer getting caught.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Adelaide is right by sex?

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Am I wrong? But it's like.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
It's Texas.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
They have their own Adelaide, Okay.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
All right.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
So in two thousand and nine, speaking of University of
Adelaide professor Derek Abbott, who's like this dude who's like
the dude like who's obsessed with this now like nowadays
he's the guy cool, you know what I mean. And
he's a professor that will help. Yeah, And he's a
professor at University of Adelaide, and he's like I'm gonna
solve this, which sometimes is like bad because you're like

(33:54):
tunnel vision, but it's still interesting.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Still get into it.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
So Derek Abbott thinks that the key to the code
is in the actual book that they found, but the
addition that was was near on the Summerset Man is
so rare that they can't find it a copy of
that to like know if it matches stuff, like you
know when they change chapters and they change wording and

(34:19):
they change the translation later like we can't find a
book that that's old, old enough to like match up
to this book, which is cool, like it could be
I don't know, it could be in there, but it's
not in the ones that we can buy, which I'm like,
can you imagine going to fucking news bookstore on finding
that book?

Speaker 2 (34:35):
And like Wright and also like how put on an
apb of Like does anybody have the rubaiyat? Look at
her your grandma library?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Paren please send so you know the rubiat? You fucking
know about this? What the Rubiat?

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Like?

Speaker 1 (34:49):
That was amazing that you I didn't know what it
was called.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Oh oh, it's all knowledge.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That doesn't help me in any way except for on
your podcast.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Ohht, I'm sorry, except for on your career?

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Where was I? Okay? So the original autopsy report, guess what,
it's lost. They always get lost. The government won't exhume
the body, and Abbot's trying really hard to get them
to exhume the body for DNA testing. What's the problem,
Well that they won't do it. Yeah, because they think

(35:23):
they don't think it'll catch a murderer. That's their thing,
is like what it's like, if there will be used
to a murderer, they'll exhume it. But if it's just
to figure out some mysterious clue, they won't do it,
but okay, which is like it's got to be expensive
to ezum a body, right, yes, And I understand that

(35:44):
they don't want to disturb.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
It's that's there's a whole thing. But like, yeah, okay,
I see that.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Can I go on record and say, disturb the shit
out of my body if there's something mysterious clue that
needs to be solved, Oh.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
I'll dig you up so fast, flaw me out.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Call me. I'm gonna have an taped to my body.
I'm not gonna tell you what it is.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm gonna get you one of those plots where you
can just it's never fully buried, like you can just
keep bringing the body up on little elevator.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Do you know about how they used to There were
so many there were so many bodies that got buried
that were still alive at a certain point that they
started bearing people with bells. Yes, right, yes, so that
if the bell there was a bell in the coffin
that went up to the surface surface. So there, if

(36:32):
you were fucking bared alive, you woul ding it. But
then so many people would start decomposing with their finger
and the bell because they put it in there.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
And the gases would move shit and.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
No food ding the bell? How creepy would that be
to like be the night fucking monitor and just be
like dinga ding ding ding, like which ones are I?
Which one's not?

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Now this was around that time, this like eighteen.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Hundred seventy eighty.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, we're like everything was just so creepy back then. Yeah,
everything's creepy. It was like it was always night, Yes,
it was always night. Women always have black lace sails
over their faces, legs everywhere. Dead children, piles of dead children.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Oh my god, like you expect your kids to die.
You just you're it.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
You'd be like, hey, let's call you Timmy. Who really knows?

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I'm going to farm you out to this rich couple
to be their servant. Goodbye bye.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Ultimately, Yeah, okay, good luck.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Suck so dark, everything sucks. But it's the best, but
it sucks, you know what I mean. Autopsy report is lost? Okay,
all right? Cool. So, so Abbott notices, like in the
photos of the Somerset man, he notices a couple things
about him that are strange. One is that his upper ear,

(37:44):
like this part right here that I'm pointing out that
you can't see on the.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Podcast is.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Strangely shaped, and the formation is shared by less than
two percent of Caucasians. So the upper lobe of the
ear is larger than the lower lobe of the ear,
which is rare, okay, really less than two percent.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Do you ever do that thing where you know, ears
are really the identify with people, like when you know,
when they always have that things like is Nicholas Cage
a time traveler. Here's a picture of him his ear,
those ears don't match, and you can like immediately if
you see and you think, could people be the same?
Check the ears for or like a.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Little like a kid corpse that like it went missing,
and like there's the photo of the kid and there's
the photo of his body, and they're like, well, his
ear doesn't stay ear, does it? It's it They look exactly
the same.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, fuck, dude, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Although I know a guy in high school who got
fucking tape my ears back surgery.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Oh yeah, oh that's true.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Is that sad?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
No?

Speaker 1 (38:41):
But that was not now. They don't do that now,
although they guess they could if they like kidnapped a
kid and like fix his ears.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Wellt me, Yeah, you'd have to yeah, there's so many
possibilities in his life.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yes, I know. I love that. Okay. So he looks
at the body and he is like, here are the ears.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
These are wrong.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
And also he had a condition in which so these
certain teeth are missing in the front, so that your incisors,
your point guys are right next to your two front teeth, yeah,
instead of having a buffer.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Right, So it's just like feng and it's again, less
than two percent of the population have this, and I
think it's hereditary. So they don't prove anything. Was this
guy a chimpanzee? Uh? You might have been well okay, yeah,
oh my god, Karen just solved it.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
He was a shaved chimpanzee. I just needed to think
about it.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
For there was a carnival in town. Okay, we're insane,
like you fucking did it. Okay, they don't prove anything
on their own, but so but Derek Abbott examines photos
of the of the son of the woman whose phone
number is in the book, who claims to have nothing
to do with him. Her fucking kid, Robin has those

(39:57):
same fucking abnormalities.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Both your anteeth both shit.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
And in addition to that, guess what he does for
a fucking living.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
He's a ballerina. Yep, are you kidding? Not fucking kidding? Okay,
blown mine?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (40:13):
What is she doing? Why won't she be honest?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Because something went wrong? Because maybe she was a spy
and so is he. And he came back around and
was like, what's up.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I'm here in.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Town because he was in town for like he came
into town like they had bus tickets and the suitcase
thing that showed that he was just fucking visiting. So
he came into town for her. Oh if you if
you believe these theories, yes, so he came into town
to confront her, or to see her, or to fucking
threaten her, or to fucking blackmail her or whatever.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Or to make her nice dinner.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
Yeah, And she was like, I don't I don't want dinner.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
I'm gonna put.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Poison in your food.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Whoa something? Oh? Yeah, because he's poison and could have
been her. That's why she's lying.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
It doesn't come up ever in any any webpage that
you find, but in my mind, yeah, I could have been.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
He's in the mix. She's in up in that mix.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Okay, So so his daughter, so her daughter her son Robin,
who they think is the kid, passes away in two
thousand and nine, and his daughter Kate is on sixteen
Minutes in twenty thirteen, saying that his grandma had fucking
known this dude, the summerchan Man, and that they both

(41:31):
might have been spies and she had no evidence of that.
But she also said that she thought that this guy
was her dad's father. Huh yeah, like she the granddaughter,
believes it the best. Like I love this part of
the story. Maybe I should save it. It's like a
reallyef okay.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
For what next time?

Speaker 1 (41:51):
It's just cute. No for the end because it makes
it less sad. Oh oh, okay, yeah, I'm gonna save it.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
So they're trying to get Australian government to exhume the body.
They wan't fucking do it. He looks British and parents,
he's his age, he's in good physical I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
This is all like they're saying, there's no reason to
do it.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, maybe he wasn't murdered. The thing is that the
kid was a fucking ballet dancer, and the original autopsy
said he had great calfs and looked like a fucking
ballet dancer, which is like and those two other fucking things.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Come on, please.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
You.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
So let's see I didn't edit this as well as
I should have. Okay, Okay, So they're they're now trying
to test the DNA of the daughter of this woman,
I mean, the granddaughter of this woman, but they don't
have the DNA of the Summerton man, so but they

(42:47):
think that they're related.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Okay, So the DNA was anything of him? Do you know?

Speaker 1 (42:53):
I think they made a bust of his face, and
you can go online and see a really amaze I think,
what an amazing fucking autopsy face photo. It's like post
mortem like photo. And to me, I mean, this is
so stupid. I've always thought he looks like my grandfather,
who was a Eastern European immigrant, Like I've always thought

(43:14):
he looks like that. So maybe he was a spy
for fucking Germany and World War Two, but who knows.
So oh so in the bust they made of him,
there's some hairs left, but I don't think they can
get the DNA out of it, so that's why they're
trying to exhume him. But they test the DNA of
the granddaughter and it turns out that that she might

(43:35):
be related to like Thomas Jefferson, which if it is,
if he is related, he's from America.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Oh okay, basically, so didn't you know that from the
Juicy Fruit?

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, we thought that. But also it's interesting because if
they find someone who is related and they have an
uncle who disappeared, then we'll fucking know who it is. Oh,
I mean, which is really cool. They believe she had
an affair they were maybe they were spies, maybe they weren't.
But the fucking best part of this whole story. So
that's what that's basically what it is. We don't know that.

(44:08):
The last news story I can get from this is
from October of twenty sixteen. Oh and it says they're
testing the DNA and this and the doctor who seems
really fucking cool named Fitzpatrick her last name. It's a
shit she her name is Fitzpatrick, is going to do
a whole thing about it, and she never did.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
I can't find it.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
But so the granddaughter Kate and Derek Abbott, who's trying
to find the DNA, and the story of this, the
professor got married. Yeah, I do three babies? What Bella
in love what how cute is that?

Speaker 2 (44:41):
What if he's just using her? He's not for DNA?

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Every night she's like, I just I have these dreams
of my cheek being.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Swabbed, and I just no, I just like youtips.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
I love plucking your hair, darling. I mean, who has
another boyfriend wants to pluck your hair? Am I wrong?
Everybody's got through that, And there's always a bowl in
the toilet that catches your peak.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's like, I means, just the thing, it's standard. That's
actually very sweet.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
So like he goes to like he goes there to
like fucking find out what's going on. I'm going to
interview the granddaughter and she's like, here's this information and
I believe it too, And then they make out and
then they're just like in the stacks trying to find oh.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
My good files, and you feel like, how cute is that?
Oh my god, it's precious.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
That's like the best, Like that's so you'd read a
book about that and you're like, come on.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Shut up. Well, Also, because everything about else about this
case is so frustrating. First of all, are we sure
we haven't done this before? Because I feel like all
of that was so familiar. We've talked about it. We've
talked about it. I know, I listened to it on
thinking sideways. Yes, it's sure. That's why I didn't want
to do it.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Is it's if this thing happened, like, Okay, I want
to say, like when Jamie Lee was on the live episode,
she did a story that I think is fascinating that
I would never do because I feel like we need
to do stories that nobody knows about.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
I disagree.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
I know, I know, and I agree with that. And
when Jamie said she was going to do it, the
audience fucking cheered, and I was like, oh, we can
actually do stories that people know about. We're just like,
ana find it. I know, I totally know, totally. So
when I found that out, I was like, but.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Then me just saying this right now is like convincing
you otherwise basically.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
No, you're corract Oh I totally think you're No.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
I mean me saying it sounds familiar.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
No, I mean I did John Benet like I can
do this. Yeah, yeah, so it's fine. Yeah, I just
what was the point. Oh, yeah, so we've heard about it.
You and I have heard about it. I said, Devince,
have you ever heard about this case and he was
like no, no.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
So Also it's so vague. It's like, so a dead
guy is there and he's got these weird items on him,
and he may be this and he may be that,
but he might just be a dead guy, dude. That
like there's you like a lot of stuff, a lot
of like way things have been painted on, Like he
could be a spy and it could be this, and
it could be that. Could he just a dead guy?

Speaker 1 (46:54):
I didn't find poison in his body, right, he could
have he could have killed him.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, I mean he splained himself out one night, just spleined.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
You explain yourself.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
You better splain yourself to me, right, blame yourself.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
No, It's one of those stories that I think everyone
knows the first three paragraphs of from like Snopes or whatever,
or from fucking read it, but the like weird details
of it, and the people like this guy who are
still trying to fucking figure it out, who I think
are going to be disappointed when they find out.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Well. Also, I think it's the fear. I think the
interest is everyone has the fear. What if, for some
reason you died and no one could figure out who
you were, It's so a sad, weird thing that would be.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Oh, I think it's cool. Yeah, I think it to me,
like in it sounds like, what's it's true that he
impregnated this woman. He came to confront her somehow, who
knows how he knew her? Why she said she didn't

(47:57):
know him? Those things are suspicious, suspicious to me. Whatever
happened was a bummer, and he went and killed himself
or drank himself to death or some fucking thing and
died there. Yeah, and she it's just weird that she
wouldn't admit to knowing him. Maybe she didn't want scandal
of being pregnant on wedlock. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
It's fascinating. So but like, so, why is she given
poetry books to other people?

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yes, she's slotting it up. No, oh my god, I'm
so sorry. I didn't mean that, and I'll never slut
shame like I'm proud of her for doing that.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
But this is with his all theory we don't have
a theory.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, I mean, why were his tags cut out of
his clothes? Well? I was there, no, you know, letter
he had started in his suitcase.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
It's another thing. Hen and I have in common is
often if I get a blouse and it says it
has the letter L, A'll fucking cuts that letter out.
You don't want an L or a twelve sticking out
on's while you get like insecure.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Or you go to a nice wedding and there was
like a lot of your dress. Where'd you get it?
And you're like, not forever twenty one? Certainly not the
gap outlet that I get it there, so you cut
it out. Yeah, So maybe his ship was like big
and tall, and he was like, I don't want anyone
know I'm fat.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
He was a big, fat ballerina who was super insecure
with a huge spleen and a smoking problem, who just
wanted to hang out by the beach. Honey, the summer
Summer Tin Man. What's the actual name of it.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
The name of the whole case is the tom and.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Shoot, but his he's being called the what man Summerton
Man because that's the beach. He was found on, Summerton Beach.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
And I feel like if I ever did a corrections corner,
I'd have a lot of them for next fucking week.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Hey, come on over to the corner. We have a
great time over here. Well, cares. All right, do you
want to hear mine? Mine's weird this week? And this
is the one I've been working on for so many weeks,
and I never I can never figure out how to
put it together. It's like such a long involved thing. No, No,

(50:03):
it's weird. Okay. It's the Bogwan Shri raj Niche and
the raj Niche poor community that they set up in
central Oregon in the early eighties.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
I know some of those words.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
All right, let me walk. No, Oh my god, I'm exciting.
And it's not. There's not an actual murder, it's attempted murder.
But the whole thing is so crazy and it's a story.
It's a news story. I remember standing in front of
the TV watching and listening to my parents get super
weirded out because essentially what happened was this so good?

(50:39):
The Bogwan Trie Rajnish was born in nineteen thirty one
as Chandra Malhan jane Jai n And. He began his
career as a philosophy professor in India and in the
sixties he traveled throughout India as a public speaker and
he was a critic of socialism. He was a critic

(51:00):
of wondie and institutionalized religions. He often spoke against Jesus,
calling him both a salesman and a madman. And he
transitioned from professor to guru when he noticed there's a
lot of money to be made off of unhappy, wealthy
Westerners that would come to India searching for spiritual meaning

(51:20):
in their lives. Amen. So soon he built a thriving
enterprise with his lectures and group therapies. He was pro materialism.
What yeah, he was like changed. He was to change
it up guru.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
So he was pro somewhat. I just see the meme
of him like sitting on fire.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
And it just with his big weird eyes. He was
pro materialism. He was h I said, anti organized religion.
And he was an advocate for a more open attitude
towards human sexuality.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yeah he was.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
He was. I mean, if he could only see Tumblr today,
he would be so proud of the leaps and bounds.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
To me, that's him saying you have to fuck me.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Well that's exactly you know, well he got. He became
known as the sex Guru in the press, which his
argument was, I've written two books on human sexuality, and
thirty eight books on meditation. But you call me the
sex guru because he's he was all about how Westerners
were so puritanical and stuffy.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
He's clearly never just fucking watched Bob's Burgers and drank
the glass of wine, which is like sometimes better than sex.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
I mean, I mean, it could be argued. But but
he was doing things like he was getting his little
groups together, and then suddenly the idea was, maybe you're
so you're so pent up about your sex that maybe
people need to have sex in front of me so
that we all stop being so pent up about sex.
It's basically this, this whole thing is the study in

(52:51):
you know, ultimate power corrupts up, Absolute power creps absolutely
get it wrong. It's the easiest saying to remember because
it's the same words at the beginning of the end,
and I still got it wrong. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
So Also, he had millions of dollars in unpaid taxes,
so he had to get the fuck out of India.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
How did he have money to begin?

Speaker 2 (53:15):
He was because he was charging all these people to
come and be in his classes and workshops and listen
to his him giving these speeches, learn how to meditate.
Yoga hadn't been a thing yet, so they were learning
about yoga's like the secret, you know, amazing practice. That cool?

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Would it be to like, for like, I have a
couple thousand bucks, but to be millions in fucking debt?
Like you are living your best life? Hell's yet, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, because you're beyond.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Yeah you're not like you don't live in a fucking hovel.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
No, no, not at all.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
I want to owe millions.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
You will someday, thank you. So what they did was
they decide they're going to leave India and come to America.
And uh so the plan is that he's going to
build a utopian city for himself and two thousand of
his followers in south central Oregon. Yes, it makes perfect
sense to me too. Well, so it's not south central

(54:11):
organ is empty. They were basically three hours east of Salem,
east and south of Salem, so they were in this
kind of central valley that was super empty. It was
just a bunch of ranches, and a lot of the
ranches had fallen into disrepair, so they were it was
almost like a desert ish situation because they had just

(54:31):
like over grazed the fields and stuff like that was
all very brown and kind of shitty.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Oh yeah, so thanks guys.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Right, so they move in and the plan was they
were going to build housing compounds, warehouses and support buildings
so that their business enterprises that were once based in
India could move to south central Oregon. And they initially
applied for a permit to build housing for ninety people,

(55:00):
but soon they they moved there and the numbers were
in the hundreds immediately. And when he arrived, the Bagwan
Trie raj Niche he came to America and he was
on a three He was doing a three year silent uh,
I don't know, meditation. He wasn't talking, and so his

(55:24):
voice was a woman named ma anand Sheila. Her real
name was Sheila Patel. She came from a very wealthy
family in India and she was kind of like his
right hand man. And so she made the deal to
buy the Big Muddy Ranch in right outside of Antelope

(55:44):
in Oregon. And she was soft spoken and charming, and
she hosted a dance in the nearby town of Madras
where cowboys partied until dawn. She curried favor, buying fifty
head of cattle from the Wasscou County commissioner, even though
the kommune was vegetarian. You know, she was like making deals,

(56:04):
kissing babies, and she basically closed the deal so that
they could build their their farming commune. But what she
didn't know was that Oregon had very strict state zoning
laws that really limited how many people and buildings could
be erected onto ranch land based on the amount. So

(56:26):
as this development grew, they they kept having to apply
for more building permits, and they kept going to the
politicians and saying, oh, you know, we're just a we're
just a farming commune, but we need more living quarters
for the workers because this is there's so much abused

(56:47):
range land that we need more people to help us
fix it. And the problem was that they were basically
a bunch of rich, like college educated, well off kind
of like it was pre yuppy, it was early yuppies.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It was like post hippie ye pre yuppy.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah, they were the people. They were the people that
eventually became yuppies that were like, oh, we don't have
to live on the commune. We can just go to
yoga classes. But at that time they were kind of
like they had the hangover from the sixties of like
the whole hippie thing had fallen apart, and then the
Vietnam War bummed everybody out, and that's why a lot
of people went to India in the first place, to

(57:33):
be like, what the fuck is life like? What is
anybody doing?

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Suddenly taxes were for them were fucking nothing. What do
you mean, like they had Reagan so taxes for rich?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Oh right, nothing, And they were doing things like, yeah,
they had they were rich, so they would sell their
Porsche and send their money to the ranch and then
go live there. And they didn't. They just worked for free.
So it was like they were giving all their materialistic stuff.
They were like, well, I'm going to help out and

(58:04):
that's going to make me feel better spiritually, and then
they can kind of escape, like the structured world of
taxes and having a job and all that stuff. They're
going to put their whole life into this commune.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
With the safety net of knowing that they could fucking
leave it at any point if they wanted to.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, because their parents still live in a really nice
house in like Marina del Rey or whatever. They all
had to wear red pink red or maroon clothing and
when they joined up, like this was the change they
would I can't, I can't. There's a word for it.
Joining up is not it, but like they would go
through like something and then initiation, it's like an initiation.

(58:41):
The bagwas shu Rejniche would put a mendela around their neck,
which is a beaded wooden necklace that would have a
big picture of them, of him on the on it.
And so they were like all these so all these
people wearing red with these wooden bead necklaces suddenly start
showing up in sen Oregon. And if you've ever been

(59:03):
to anywhere like this, or even central California, it's like
a little strip of Arkansas right here on the west coast.
Like it's very farm it's very republican, it's very conservative.
It's it's people who live far away from other people.
They like things their way, and they don't want a
bunch of fucking weirdo rich hippies in red clothing coming

(59:26):
into their town thirty forty eighty at a time. And
that's exactly what was happening. So it's kind of awesome
because and they were all wearing red so and like
with shit in their hair and like, and they weren't
it wasn't a hippie thing, Like, they weren't like drugged out,
like hey, peace love. They were kind of like trying
to trying to take over.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Did you watch The Leftovers?

Speaker 2 (59:49):
I did, like the first I'd say the first seven episodes.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Like the people in the white clothing that were like
the smoking Yeah, yes, it sounds like that to me. Yeah,
just so creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
They kind of like when you see there's tons of
great documentaries about this whole thing, and there's great footage,
but it's there is a lot of that, Like there's
a little of the Leftover like dancing in Golden Gate
Park like ecstatic dancing and group kind of hangouts and stuff,
but it's so much more. There's so much more of

(01:00:21):
a business aspect to it. You can tell that they're
trying to monetize spirituality.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Well, the difference between a seventies cult and an eighties
cult is so probably so fucking different.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Yeah, for sure, And this one had that thing of
like they just started showing up in droves and freaking
locals out badly, sure, and in their weird red clothing
and they were kind of like even the one documentary
I was watching, the guy who now is probably in
his like late sixties, seventies, gray hair, like clearly not
in it anymore. But so they were just aggressive because

(01:00:54):
they were just so quick to be like, well, you
you were a racist, or you were against our religion,
or you were anti you know, you were xenophobic or whatever.
It's like, yeah, maybe except for that. If you were
starting a commune with ninety people, that's one thing. But
basically they ended up having two thousand followers on this
trade of the town they infiltated a town Antelope and

(01:01:16):
Madras where they're like kind of they're too closest towns,
and so basically what happened is instead of it being
a small commune, they it turned into this big thing.
And they had to keep going to the city and
applying for more permits and more permits and saying we
needed for this, we need oh sorry, we didn't realize
and we just need it for this, and so the
city had to start going no, like this is crazy,

(01:01:39):
this land is not zoned for you guys to start
a city. Essentially, and at first they were trying to
be they didn't want to come off as like hicks
and like people who are like against outsiders. They didn't
want to come off that also them coming there, they
actually did the thing that they were saying they were building.

(01:02:02):
They built a dam. They brought the water table up,
Like the whole the entire valley that they lived in
became bright green. When you see these, it's kind of
amazing these helicopter shots of the area and it's like
bright green. And they have like or they started organic farming,
so it's like kind of a mass organic farming where

(01:02:24):
somebody in this documentary was saying, once they had everything
built up and there was like a main street and
there was there was a mall. They had a mall,
they had restaurants. They would give tours to locals, like
you can come and see what we're doing. We're not
like trying to be hide anything that in the around
Central Organ. They'd be like, the only good place to
eat is it as raj niche Porum was the name

(01:02:46):
of the town, or you know what. Eventually they tried
to make into a town. People would go there to
eat because it was like really good organic food. It
was kind of like the original the original farmed a
table situation, but they were doing it with this it
was a culty version of it essentially, because they still

(01:03:10):
did you know, and he also the Bogwan tree raj
Niche would just come out and sit there, but he
wasn't talking, so he wasn't like preaching or saying anything
to anybody they would like. And sometimes he just wouldn't
come out at all, like so he in. When he
first got there, he would make appearances, but then after
a while he just wasn't doing it. And basically there

(01:03:30):
was just a bunch of people like manual labor farming
and doing shit for free and dedicating their whole life
to like building up this what eventually was becoming a city.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
That's what I was thinking, is I bet the locals
would be so much more stoked if he were bringing
in jobs. But you're not. You're just higher, you know,
everyone who just is a fucking cult member is doing
it for you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
The people it was good for were people that owned
back hoose and like big like Caterpillar earth mover. There
was a couple people it was good for, but not
on the whole. No, on the whole it was like
And the other problem was so they they wanted these permits.
They wanted to keep expanding, and they started being told no.
So they started infiltrating, like the local government. So they

(01:04:19):
would go in and like demand, they would demand to
see permits or files or papers at the Waco County Courthouse.
And there's two people that work there, because it's like
a courthouse in the middle of nowhere in this county
that does not that many people, and forty of them
would go down and be like, we demand to see it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
So it started.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
It started off very aggressive and of course made it
was already like you're all wearing red and jumping around,
and now you're like, we want to see this, we
want to do this. Then they have they have elections
and they end up electing a bunch of the Rajniches
as they're called, onto the city council or onto the

(01:04:58):
whatever county whatever it would be a county people, county group,
so that they suddenly now are the ones that are
because they're trying to get their people in so that
they get told yes, because what they want to do.
They really did want to build a city and they
wanted to bring more and more people there, and they're
starting to make serious money and the other reason they

(01:05:20):
said that they had the tours is because they want
to make sure parents who like those rich parents were
talking about, could come and see where their children were
and what they were dedicating in their life to. There
wasn't some secret cult that they could come and shop
in the mall and buy a bunch of red clothes
if they wanted to, or eat their organic pizza or whatever,

(01:05:40):
and that everything was chill, and then they'd dance around astatically.
There'd be discos. There was like a whole thing, and
then they'd leave going, I guess it's fine, and keep
on giving them the money. And they were making a
shit fucking ton of money. Now. The other thing was
that the Bogwa tree raj niche said when he he
went into silence, and he put that woman an On Sheila,

(01:06:05):
who was also known as Shila Silverman because she was
from India, but she had married an American here and
she you know, was an American citizen.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Man on Sheila, who everyone called Sheila. She was in charge.
And then he had four other women beneath her and
they ran the entire city, and his the Bagwan tree
Regini said he wanted a city run by women, and
he wanted like strong and strong women to be in power.
And what would a city look like if women, if

(01:06:41):
it was a matriarchy basically, So everyone's kind of like
into that idea because what harm could there be if
and they had these women that were the tour guides
that when you went there to see the culled your
child had just moved to and started wearing all red clothes,
it would be all these beautiful they called themselves the Twinkies,
and they would guide you around and be like, here's
the look, here's the mall, and here's this, and I'm

(01:07:02):
really pretty and we're all great and we eat lettuce
all the time and everything's good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
That's our fucking tour, the Twinky tour.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
So it's just all they're trying to make sure people
have positive it's positive pr all the time. The problem
is the Jonestown cults and the Jonestown massacre had only
happened three years before, So aside from locals being locals
and not being that into a bunch of hippie weirdos

(01:07:32):
coming into their town, everybody, the press, everybody was scared
of anything like that happening in America.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
And it was close to San Francisco, where Jonestown started, right, yeah,
I mean it was relatively not really like a plane
flight away, a long car right away, but still but yes,
closer than other places, and yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
That's where that's right, You could drive up the five
and get there. But yes, I mean it's that sensitivity
of however, many people died at Jonestown eight hundred or
something like that, hundreds. They're not going to just let
a bunch of people, you know, getting super into this

(01:08:14):
one religion and starting a city about it, because it's
also the thing of the separation of church and state
and that idea of like what's actually behind this. The
other thing, too, was that they were making so much
money that the Bagwan Tree Reginiche. One of his favorite
things was rolls Royces, and so by nineteen eighty four

(01:08:36):
he had the largest private collection of Rolls Royces in America.
He had ninety four holy thought, who the fuck? And
that was his pro materialism thing. It did seem like
other people got to be very materialistic though, because I
don't think they were getting paid to like fucking run
those back hose and like run entire huge lettuce farms
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
You don't fucking buying ninety four roles races with fucking
lettuce farms.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
No, No, there's some serious cash getting stacked that he
gets to spend. So his thing was he they were
because the relationship between the citizens of the Central Oregon
and the Rajnis was getting you know, heated, heated. Let's

(01:09:23):
say he no longer was doing making appearances. So what
he would do was get into one of his many
rolls choices and drive. And so he would just drive
down the road and all the Rajniches would line up
in their weird clothes and they would jump and stand
and clap and sing and whatever, and he would drive
by and wave to them and drive with no hands.

(01:09:44):
He would do his hands in prayer hands and then
bow to them as he was driving them Bay. And
that was the really famous like that's what I remember
as like you know, a twelve years old radio. Yo. Yeah,
you can watch all this on you two. It's pretty amazing.
They and they showed it on the news all the
time because it was this thing. I was like, oh,
this is an interesting starting up up in Central organ

(01:10:07):
And then it was like, hey, have you seen this lately. Well,
then after a while, their side of things say that
they tried to have a festival and the local authorities said,
you can't have a festival unless you have a security force,
and so they started walking around with Uzzi's. So when
the he would go to do his drive, there would

(01:10:28):
be two dudes with like all the red clothes, but
then with like berets to the side carrying Uzzi's. Is there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Rays are always bad.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Rays are not a good sign. So so they basically
have their own security force and it was serious enough
where they got trained at the State Police Academy. They
went off and got trained as a security force and
came back they feel better though, I mean, yeah, they
called themselves a peace force.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Because you need Uzzi's when you're fucking peace force.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
I mean. Now, the other thing is they were getting
threatened a lot of course, you know a lot of letters,
a lot of phone calls, and they owned a hotel
in Portland that got bombed. They got firebombed. So once
the fire bombing started happening, there was more and more
guns that and like the security force thing kind of
came up more and more.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Anyone die in that because I wonder if they did themselves.
She'll like be like to get sympathy or like get
a reason to get those guns.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Would they actually would use the negative press when they
when they would like something like that, anything where it
showed that the locals or people of Oregon were like
after that, because there were protesters that would be on
the city, they would be like, get the hell out
of town. They would take that footage and send it
to the other I want to say ash Rams, but

(01:11:49):
I don't know if that's the right word. There are
other hangouts around the country and around the world, sex
sex sext. I wonder if those they would send that
footage so that and then go look how we're being
attacked it and they would send them money.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
But I wonder if those protesters were fucking Ashram dudes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
Oh, I like it, Like so they're just propaganda. Yeah,
could be, I believe, but I think that people were
super like, sure, get the fuck out of here, Like
what are you guys doing. Yeah, So basically we'll just
cut to this part because there's a lot of stuff
about permits that I was like writing, writing, writing, and
I'm like, I don't know, does anyone give a shit
about this permit? Action.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Did they get them yes or no?

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
No? Well, basically the answer was no. So then they
started getting voting themselves onto board. They basically infiltrated the
politics in the community around Art so that they could
start making all the decisions for themselves and make this
city as big as they wanted. So, but here's where
they went wrong. They there was a big important vote

(01:12:54):
coming up, so they started busting in homeless people from
all around the country to come and live at the
Rajnisporum in the city. They were saying that they were
doing it for this their spiritual life, because they wanted
them to. But these were all just homeless people that
they were finding on the streets. And these people would
get there and they'd be given clothes, they'd be given

(01:13:16):
three hots and a cot and be like, hey, you
can go. You can go work on the lettuce farm
and have something to do. And there's it's sad. There's
guys that like talk to the cameras and be like, yeah,
there's nothing for me out there, I might as well
be here and actually have something to do, and like
I'm not, I don't have to worry about getting stabbed
on the streets. Sure, so they end up busting in

(01:13:36):
four thousand homeless plea fuck so that in the next
wasco county election. They basically take start to take over politics.
And what ends up happening is the people that were
in place, you know, the people that were already the
county supervisors or whatever they are, did this thing where

(01:13:57):
when everybody showed up to vote that day, they said,
if you were newly registered to vote, you were putting
a like a ban on your vote and you and
we were taking this to court. That's not how that works. Well,
but you can do I guess there's some some circumstances.
They were like pulling out an old law or whatever,
like saying you can vote, but you have to first

(01:14:18):
go to this trial and like be it a hearing
to prove that you're here to vote, that you're really
a citizen of this of this city. Because they knew
exactly what they were doing, and so then they tried
to turn it into this woman Sheila tried to be like,
I'm voting for you. This is because a lot of
these people were like Vietnam vet Yeah, homeless people. I mean,

(01:14:38):
they were the people that had been screwed over truly
by society. And so conceptually it was a really nice idea.
But once that happened, and of course nobody was going
to go to the hearing. Nobody was going to go
sit there and be talk to a judge about how
they yes, they were here and they were really a
citizen and blah blah blah. So so few of them

(01:15:00):
went that an and like ninety five percent of the
locals showed up to vote, you know, highest voting turnout
ever for the actual locals that that none of the
Rajani She's won anything, and it went completely in favor
of the localspes. Yeah, well then they just dump all

(01:15:21):
these homeless guys. Most of them went to Portland, but
they just they just sent them out of town, oh
my god, and dump them and just like close by
and like no local places of like well here you
go didn't work by. Yeah, and that's when it all
started to fall apart, where it was like, yeah, all
of this, like you could say that you're doing this
for the spirituality, that would be a beautiful thing. If

(01:15:43):
there's a place for people to go who are homeless, yeah,
who are on the streets and have nowhere to go.
But this is clearly not a charity or anything. You're
not going to let these people come here and stay there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
You were clearly using them. Yeah that sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
And yeah, once that vote didn't turn out the way
they wanted it to, it all got exposed. The other
thing that happened was that they went to check on
the housing. The local sheriff want to check on the
housing for these people because there was kind of like
a tent city. They didn't have enough like building housing

(01:16:18):
for them because there's so many, but they did have
tent like tent housing that they used during their festivals,
and so the sheriff was going up there to make
sure that there was like proper housing from that many people.
And when they got up there, there was like a
huge caterpillar earth mover that was blocking the entire road
and the sheriff had to basically turn around and go

(01:16:40):
back to town.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
So they were like an actual caterpillar And I got
so excited, jameson the giant feed.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Oh but a caterpillar that huge though, great, go on, sorry,
that's upsetting. I know it would be all like furry.
So anyway, they basically are like, we to colin higher ups,
this is crazy and something's really happening. Yeah, so sorry,

(01:17:07):
I have to get to my page. So they have
officials from around the county go and visit and be like,
what the hell is going on? And while they were there,
I'm trying to find the name?

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Can you while you're looking?

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Yes? Can you imagine?

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
So the governor of was it the governor of San
Francisco who went to Jonestown to check on everyone? Yeah?
I don't think he was the governor, may he was something.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Yes, he was a big wig.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
So he shows up to check on his citizens who
had moved to Jonestown and he ends up getting shot
and killed by which triggered and started off the Jonestown massacre.
Can you imagine? And that was three years before those
fucking city officials being like, we're looking into this shit.

(01:18:02):
How terrifying must that be?

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Yes? And a lot of them talk about it. It's
really an interesting thing worth watching because they were so scared.
At first, they were scared to look like racists and
to look like people that were just rejecting people can't.
But then after a while they knew that they couldn't,
Like they knew that this had turned into a thing
that it was beyond just them. Like going in and

(01:18:25):
arresting people that that was not possible. Yeah, and the
sheriff who at the time, I mean like now he's
aged very well, because now he must be like in
his late sixties and at the time he was like
in his thirties, and he was like. Someone goes, well,
are they like a person from the presco's are they
blocking the road? And he goes, I don't know, they're
blocking it, but I mean it's blocked, so I guess

(01:18:46):
we'll just go like they're absolutely not trying to be
in conflict with these people, but at this point it's
like a welfare check, yes, exactly, like they're trying to say, yeah,
we just want to make sure everything is kind of
it's what you're claiming it is. Well, then Sheila shows
up and she's like she's like kind of in everybody's face.
It's pretty interesting too when you see her. She gets

(01:19:08):
interviewed a couple times and she actually picks up her
hand and points into the face of the interviewer or
into the camera where it's like aggressive, what are you doing? Yeah,
like if this is also chill and spiritual, but you
can tell she's like it turned into like yeah, we're like,
you're fighting for your commune. But after a while that's
not really what's happened is a power move and a

(01:19:30):
power grab, like they're trying to take over, like they
want they want they want the state for themselves, or
they want the area for themselves. Okay, so anyway, I
can't find this guy's name. Basically basically the fuck the oh,

(01:19:51):
I don't have the name, but it's three county commissioners.
So they went to tour the ranch and while they
were there, they were given glasses of water and when
they get home, they become seriously ill. Come on and
they had been poisoned with salmonella. Holy fuck. But they
can't prove that it like they can't prove it, Like

(01:20:12):
they get very ill, and then they're just kind of
out and then so that they can't go to work.
Then it took them a full year to tie it
all back and get all the proof. Then around central
and southern Oregon there are reported seven hundred and fifty

(01:20:35):
one cases of salmonella and people forty five people were hospitalized.
There were no fatalities, but all of these people got
it like one after the other, and it turned out
that Rajnichies were going out to restaurants and sprinkling salmonella

(01:20:56):
onto salad bars and putting it into salad dress.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
How do you get salmonilla to sprinkle?

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
In my mind, like you have to wring out a
steak into a fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
I mean, they had this setup that they had on
these farms. Yeah, and these ranches. I mean I don't
I could not tell you, but they figured it out.
And I mean like they could have had like labs
or other things on these farms. I'm not sure. All
they know is that they were that these salad bars
were poisoned, and the idea was that they were going

(01:21:29):
to keep voters from the Okay, it was the idea, Jesus.
And then the Uh, the last thing that happened, which
I think is kind of amazing, is a raji she
named ma Anan Pooja heard that politician James Kameni was

(01:21:51):
at Saint Vincent Hospital, so she went there and the
idea was that she was going to inject a deadly
mixture into his intervenous tube that would stop his heart.
Holy fuck. But when she arrived, uh, and when got
into his hospital room, she saw that he didn't have
an intervenous hookup, but he was just laying in the bed.

(01:22:15):
So she just panicked and turned around and left. But
they act the plan was they later found out when
they raided the place and got all the like secret
documents and everything, that the plan was they were going
to kill him. Oh my god. Yeah, this was so
basically this was Sheila's plan to like take over war again.
So she fucking fled. She fled to West Germany. Oh. Actually,

(01:22:39):
when they when the cops finally got in, the ultimate
plan was they were going to put poison into Oregon's
water supply, uh, and people. They also had all of
the rooms bugged at the ranch and they were they
had like files on Rajni She's in the so they

(01:23:01):
like they weren't only going to do harm to outsiders,
they also were like keeping people in line and doing
weird shit within the ranch. Like there was a lot
of crazy shit going on the Bogwan Tree Shrie Regniche
she basically left. He came out and like agreed with
the like cooperated with the authorities, told him everything broke

(01:23:23):
his three year silence, uh, and then basically tried to
get onto a plane. Uh. And he tried to flee
by lear jet. A plane came in and it was
a big enough place where they could land a plane,
and then they got off. There was the flight plan
was that they were going to refuel in Charlotte, North Carolina,

(01:23:48):
and then they were going to go back I guess
to India. But Charlotte, they landed and the cops arrested
him good and they deported him because he was the
whole time he was on a visa that was like
had expired along a guy. So then they found her
and she served three years of a sentence before she

(01:24:09):
was deported off of US soil and the Bagwan tree
Rejnich died in nineteen ninety The camp was converted into
a Christian camp. But uh so it's legit now. Yeah,
But then in nineteen ninety six it was destroyed by
fire and all all of the structures were destroyed.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
M it. That'd be so cool to do a live
episode from there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
Oh my god, can you imagine we drive up to
that lake. But also just to keep your eyes peeled,
because he eventually before he died, he changed his name
to Oshow, which is actually a Japanese honorific and so
if you see quotes on the internet from Oshow, it's

(01:24:53):
actually the Bogwan Tree. Yeah, just so you know, it's
not some wise Japanese stage from long ago.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
What does he quote sho on the internet?

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
What does he do? Yeah, you see quotes from oshow
all the time, and it's that stuff of like, you know,
you know, we are here for a short amount of time.
It's all it's like shit, I've said. I mean, it's
just it's just that stuff of like you know, he's
still practiced. No, he's dead, but he's like because he
changed his name, he doesn't have the mark of like

(01:25:23):
the Bogwan Tree. Roach is known as the cult leader,
the kinky cult leader who tried to poison everybody. Oh
show just sounds like some guy playing a flute underneath
an old tree. But it's actually this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
I know. That's cool. Yeah, fucking cults man, cults, dude,
my fave.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
They're so good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Anyway, that's mine.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
No one died, my apology.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
They tried.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
They tried, and they really they tried hard. Also, the
locals tried too.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
There was lots of like bad bumper stickers that were
like gun sights with you know, it was not a
good time in the early eighties and central.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Oh, we're supposed to talk about one thing though it
was good. Sweet, Okay, let's tell each other. I think
yours is that you bought your niece fucking Doc Martins
for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Don't do mine for me. So we're going into a
fight at this at the positive part.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
Okay, Well, then mine is that you bought your fucking
mes Doc Martin, because that's the coolest thing I've ever
heard of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
That was a pretty good one.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
Yeah. Uh, let's not do it anymore. I mean, we
have to think this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
Hard about we just take a second. Yeah, well, let's
give up. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:41):
Life is good.

Speaker 2 (01:26:46):
There was something while we were talking that I thought of,
and then I'm like, don't sidebar it again. What I
can't remember? I wish I should have written it down.
We should take notes during the week, and we should
take notes while we're talking.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
We should treat this like a fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:01):
I don't know those it's working.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
It's working, Bernie, And wow, oh my god, there's so
many things in my life that are good and I
just can't remember one of them. I guess that I'm
moving into a fucking real apartment, like a grown up
personally just got an apartment, and I'm scared, but it's
it's exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Yeah, that's very exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
You know what the thing this week that I'm that
I'm happy about my dish I'm gonna have a dishwasher.
What's yours?

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
Fuck? Yeah, it's fucking Real Detectives. Oh yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
Sorry, know I was happy for you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
There's a news. There's not. It's not a new show. Actually,
it just the first season is on Netflix, but the
second season I think is on regular TV if you
DVR it. And someone tweeted us and said, thanks so
much for the recommendation of Real Detective. I love it
and I'm obsessed with it. You're we never do.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
We didn't give that recommend it. You're welcome. But it's
just here's why I love it. It's like I survived,
but it's first person from the guy who solved the crime,
and it is they're like, you love them, You're so
in love with them. They're so like low key manly

(01:28:12):
but super haunted because there's these cases that you're like.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
But the case is really good.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
Oh my god, they're incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:28:20):
And there are there like real photo like crime scene photos.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
No, there's really good reenactments.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
Is that a thing? Really good reenact there?

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
It is because they actually there's actors you recognize that
are in these reenacts's fun and they do it in
a way where you're just it's kind it's similar to
I don't know any Yeah, I think Crime to Remember
is the only one that has really good reenactments. It's
similar to that, but it's less artistic and more down
to business of like the guy tells you this is

(01:28:50):
how it was for me, and then you see him
do the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
I'm into actors that I know, and not ones that
I'm like, oh god, you're struggling and you got paid
one hundred and ten dollars for this enactment, right, and
then you had a person to be raped.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):
Yeah, then you're just in that red bra laying. Yeah. No,
this is very cool. And also it's because it's from
I just there's something about a homicide detective that's just
like insanely, it's just pure. They're my broad pit.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
I get it, I dig it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Well, it's just bold. It's like what a hard job. Totally,
what a horrible job, totally? Yeah, pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Good bless them, good, bless Go to my favorite murder
dot com for things and stuff and thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
Thanks everybody. We like you, guys. We sure do.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Stay sexy and don't get murder. Bye bye bye, Elvis,
you want a cookie? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
Did that work?

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
It did?

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Jesus, Bye bye.