December 11, 2025 • 48 mins
On today’s episode, Karen covers the letters-to-Santa scammer, John Duval Gluck.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello and welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
That's my favorite murder.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
That's Georgia Hartstar, that's Karen Kilcara, and it is the
holiday season. Yay.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We decorated, except by we, I mean not we, other people.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Molly, our producer, decorated gorgeous, so pretty. It looks really nice.
There's a kind of it has like an ice skating vibe.
Totally right.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, h what are you looking forward to with our
little holiday break coming up?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I can't wait to see Millenia's decorations. I can't wait
to see what she's doing to bring the spirit of
the season into the White House. I can't wait for
those cookies that are peanut butter cookies with Hershey's kisses
on top. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Do you know I got to seize Advent calendar if
it's got me? A Sea's Advent calendar.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
With different candies and every day, every.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Day has a different Seas candy. It's the cutest thing
I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
That's the best. But you know, what did you bring
me candy?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thence went into the Sea's Candy at the Americana and
there was a Murderino working what and she and her sister.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'll have that one.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Erica and Sylvia, and I think Sylvia worked there. Gave
us a fucking bag of straight up seas candy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh my god, well just put your face in there. No, actually,
maybe don't do that. That's germs smelling, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
And there's one way there that's caramel and marshmallow. I
kind of tell by looking out with them what they are.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Now. Yeah, I'm pretty good at it. Yeah, I think this.
There's circular ones. I don't know as well because they're
usually trefily. But sorry, there's there's a square one over here.
Can I eat it? Well? Do you want to eat it?
I can't.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh, I give it to you before we started, like
I should have done tho you before.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
There, Sylvia, Erica, thank you so much. Thanks y'all. That's
the best news of all time, I.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Know, except friends at sea for two hours, Friends at seas,
Friends at Caesar.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I got a box of seas from my accountant, like
you know when you get a kid at Christmas, and
it was just a one pound box of seas. I
opened it. I was like, oh, that's really nice. I
opened it. I was like, am I going somewhere? Should
I give that? And I was like, oh no, I'm
fully free to eat this at will.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
A Sea's candy box to yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Poke your finger right through the bottom, eat a bite
of each of them, never eat one you don't want again.
Oh my god, it was a dream.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
That is one of the struggles with being married, I
think is having to not look like a raccoon when
you're midway through a seize candy box and like, I
don't want Vince in my family. You take a bite
and you put it back like that's what. Like, you
open it and there's so everyone could taste them, and
Vince's like you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Just said, for I was smelling it and you're worried
about germs. That's true. That's true. Family, say yeah, you
know what you're getting with those people.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Actually, this is a good segue. I have a holiday
pick aside. Oh perfect, Do you want to do it
real quick?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
What a way to celebrate, right, So we do pick
a side where we just tell people if they're right
or wrong and argue about it. So here's a good
holiday one. This is a dm on Instagram from Chantel.
My family has always made present opening a big deal
and it's important not to rip through them all and
take the time to say thank you after each gift.
Multiple people can open it once, but once you have
(03:34):
it open, you show the group, say thanks, and move on.
My partner's family thinks that it takes too long and
will open multiple presents without telling anyone what he got.
It's not to be rude, and he is thankful, however,
and messes up everyone's vibe. And I want to know
what you got. Hopefully this year we can come up
with a game plan before opening begins. I mean, the
(03:56):
the amount of emotional tetris we put ourselves through to
like not be like that sucks, you shouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It's like they don't understand what Christmas is, right, because
Christmas is, yes, you're no longer eight years old, but
Christmas is being excited about the box, trying to figure
out what someone might have given you opening it up.
It's a planner. You're like, thanks, and you do, and
then you go through it because it's still a gift totally,
and you're still but you're waiting for the big one
(04:25):
or whatever, and that is just the like, isn't that
the tradition?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I think not doing the rules of the family whose
house you're at is weird. Yeah, like whatever it is,
if you're there, you follow their rules or it's weird.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But also I think I don't know if someone has
a diametrically opposed to how you celebrate a major holiday,
then it is like what camp is that? Right? It's
almost like everyone got up, Like the second you're done
with presence, you just go watch TV in your room,
like what's happening? Right? Don't you want to?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think that I wonder how many of these we've
done that? Are you should break up that they're asking
for legit advice and we're just like that's not the
right person for you then.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Or maybe like if that's kind of like more his speed,
he gets to do that at home and then when
he's somewhere else or when he's at that house. Yeah,
of course.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But we shouldn't have to tell him that he should
if he doesn't know that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
No, you're right, we should don't have to talk. I
don't think this is uh, there's a side here.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I think that this person's doing what is it called
emotional gymnastics? Oh to like not be like this really
upsets me and I don't like it. And it's okay
if I don't like it right, you know what I
mean without me being me saying he's bad or you know.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, because maybe it doesn't even really upset you. It's
just like what are you doing? Why would you want
to do it that way? I think that's like the
mad The basis of every fight is why are you?
Why do you want to do things this way? You're
the one doing it? Like is this pleasant? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Are you getting more out of this than you would
if you just like follow the rules? Just like family they've.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Got you have to go off and privately open. Maybe
it's somebody that gets embarrassed and can't talk about their
feeling of spotlight embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, it can be a really awkward like embarrassing to
have it on the spotlight on you.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And then if you're not grateful, it looks like it Yeah,
or some storyline maybe.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Oh shit, we're empathizing. Now, do you want to hear mine?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah? This one is It says DM on Instagram from Natasia,
but that's spelled Nastassia and the first s is a
dollar sign. Yeah, you've got a battie on her hands
and it says December baby here my birthday is on
the twenty eighth of December. I've always believed that I
deserve Christmas and birthday presents. My friend's sister shares the
(06:43):
same birthday and they give her conjoined Christmas birthday. To me,
that's crazy. I wholeheartedly believe that December babies deserve double
presents for being born around the holidays. Change my mind,
No way, I'm standing ground. That's fair. I'm standing my ground.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Everyone gets a Christmas and a birthday, why shouldn't you.
I would just wait a couple of days, you know,
after Christmas to do it right or like before?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Do it before or after? Double presence is a given,
yeah or like.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
But if it's like not, then the present is like
fucking better than everyone else.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
It's always a bike. It's always a ten speed bike.
It's always a motorcycle. Yeah, it's one of those motorcycles
that kids can ride on the street. Now. They don't
need helmets and they don't need terrifying there's no yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, I think that's fair enough to want about those things. Yes,
but absolutely, if your birthday week is Christmas, that's fucking bullshit.
And Christmas would want presents if it was your birthday
that everyone was celebrating that's right.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And also Christmas would want more attention if everyone was
paying attention to you, Well, it's Christmas sat in the corner.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I would have a New Year's Birthday party. That
would be fun.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh, just like build the momentum all the way. Just
to follow that up, should we give our December donation? Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, speaking of giving in presence, do it so.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
As you might know by this point, we've had a
holiday tradition for the last three years where we make
donations throughout the month of December, giving to charities that
make a real difference in people's lives.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So today we're donating ten thousand dollars to Feed the Children.
They're dedicated to ending childhood hunger here at home and
around the world.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Feed the Children provides food, school supplies, clean water, household
and hygiene essentials to help families thrive, and in twenty
twenty four alone, they distributed more than eighty point six
million pounds of food and essentials across the United States.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Incredible. If you'd like to join us in supporting their work,
head to Feed the Children dot org. And if donating
isn't possible right now, you can also explore volunteer opportunities
at Feed the Children dot volunteer hub dot com.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
There's always a way to give love that. Yeah, well,
we have a network. Do you want to talk about
it really quick before we get into this is a
solo episode, so we just get our business taken care
of so.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Real quick on the Exactly Right Network. This week on
The Knight, Hannah and Paytia look into a twenty seventeen
tip about a suspicious co that led FBI agent Mark
Hastbaka to expose a serial con artist. They break down
how he uncovered her long running scheme.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And then over on Brief Recess, Michael and Melissa sit
down with political satirist Walter Masterson for a sharp, lively
conversation about politics, performance and the art of calling out
the absurd.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And on Dear Movies, I Love You, Millie and Casey
take a look at the very best films of twenty
twenty five, their favorites of the year, stand out, first
time watches, and what they think twenty twenty six will bring.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Also, if you're looking for a last minute gift, the
Exactly Right Store has everything you need to make the holidays.
Marry and fright check out our new skeleton Santa unisex
crew neck. Who's got I got it? This is so good?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yes, Oh, I feel like you could wear this year
round and just be like the coolest kid entirely.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
There's just the whole vibe of it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
If you want that to an ugly sweater party for Christmas.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
You'd win. You'd win hands down. There's also the skeleton ornament.
I haven't Oh yeah, the little guy, he's prescially if
you want to put him on our tree, this skeleton
ornament is going to turn out to be like an airloom.
If that gets passed down, it works perfectly in front
of the other one. That's the way you do it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Toxic Masculinity ornament.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
That's a beautiful ornament and it looks very fragile, but
it's actually not.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Does it look to you like I realized I saw
the video the other day and it looks like the
baby Bell cheeses.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Oh yeah, oh, that'd be Baby Bell cheese as an ornament.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Is such a good idea. They kind of have that
like some kind of okay.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Well, then there's also this guy Toxic Masculinity sweatshirt.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right, and then also of course the Mothman plushy keychain,
so precious, hanging on the tree, so typical, although.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's kind of heavy. Thanks, what if we put him
right here? It's perfect?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Oh can't.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
He's just gonna sit down love it. Yeah that's good.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah. So if you ever wanted to match your tree
now you can. Had to exactly right store dot com
to shop now.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And order please by December fourteenth, so that you can
get your items by December twenty fifth.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Thank you guys for doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yes, we love to make fun merch for you. Okay,
your solo today, it's solo time and I hope you
like this. It's a Christmas story. Oh and it's well
you'll see this story starts. It's mid December, the holiday season.
(11:24):
The world is a wash in the sea of red
and green, and along with many other major winter cultural observations,
Christmas is here. But my story is from an era
when our modern holiday mania began, the early nineteen hundreds
in New York City, and there was one man who
took people's holiday cheer and goodwill and lots and lots
(11:45):
of their money and used it all to make himself
into a jazz age celebrity. This is the story of
New York's Santa claus Man John Duval Gluck.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Wow, I've never heard this one.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So Maren used the writing and research of a writer
named Alex Palmer who published the book The Santa claus Man,
and John Gluck is his great grand uncle. Wow. So
it's a family story. Cool. The rest of the sources
are in our show notes. Okay, so we go. Let's
go back to the origins of Santa Claus. If you would,
for just one moment, please, this jew needs to know
(12:19):
what right? Don't you wonder where Santa Claus is originally from?
I thought he was Jewish.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I thought he was Jewish.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Turkey, Oh, you know, not far away. Sometime around two
hundred and eighty a d a series of legends emerge
about a selfless Christian bishop named Nicholas who roams the
countryside giving away the fortune he inherited at birth. That's different.
In what is maybe the most famous of these stories,
Nicholas tosses gold to three young sisters to save them
(12:47):
from being sold into slavery by their destitute father.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Over the years, these stories spread throughout Europe, and Nicholas
becomes known as the patron saint of children.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Wow, you don't hear a lot about charitable billionaires these days.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
No, No, I bet you. His dad didn't even get
into the bees. He was down and.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Insane low ms what would be in today's money.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Though, having to calculate today's money from two eighty, the
calculator just snaps in half. Okay. So Saint Nicholas's feast
day is December sixth, and that's when it's said that
he died, so it becomes a very lucky day from
many Europeans, and a day where adults bring little candies
(13:33):
or modest gifts to children in the spirit of Saint Nick.
This is of course a couple weeks before December twenty fifth,
which is the day Christians observe the Birth of Christ.
So over the years, basically those two days blend together,
with the Birth of Christ winning out and Saint Nicholas coming.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Interesting, he just becomes a mascot instead of the actual
reason for the season.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yes, exactly, Digust he gets blended in. But then as
century pass he remains so popular and beloved that even
after the Protestant Reformation, when devotion to saints fades across
much of Europe. You know, the Protestants. They stripped out
all that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Stuff, for sure, heresy all that shit.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
But old Saint Nick indoors. This is particularly true in
the Netherlands, where he's known by the truncated nickname Cinerclas.
And it's through the Dutch settlers emigrating to New York
in eighteenth century that we first met Saint Nick here
in America.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I don't know why I can't read today, so
in I should just do it from memory. So in
eighteen oh nine, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow author Washington
Irving publishes a satirical history of New York City that
depicts Saint Nick is a kind of paternal mascot for
Dutch New Yorkers, and basically he's described as a pipe
(14:52):
smoking gift giving a man who rides through the sky
in a flying wagon. And around the same time, the
wealthy founder of the New York Historical Society named John
Pintard campaigned to actually make Saint Nicholas the city's patron saint.
It doesn't work. What finally catapults Saint Nicholas into the
American zeitgeist is a single poem written in eighteen twenty
(15:13):
two by another New Yorker, Clement Clark Moore, called a
Visit from Saint Nicholas. Now we kind of know it
better as the Night Before Christmas. Wow, So in it
more picks the version of Saint Nicholas that's still with
us today. The plump, rosy cheeked, white bearded man who
flies around in a sleigh pulled by eight reindeer. You know,
(15:34):
all of this delivering gifts to children. The poem is
an instant hit when it comes out, and it spreads
far beyond New York, and it actually never really fades
in popularity, so people like latch onto it, and we've
never let it go. So this brings us back to
the early nineteen hundreds. Saint Nicholas, now better known as
Santa Claus, has become a mainstream American icon and tradition.
(15:54):
Department stores are booming at this time the early nineteen hundreds,
advertised is taking off. So every holiday season Santa Claus
appears in newspaper ads and elaborate window displays. Wow, it
just takes off, just like that. Yeah, it's this time
of year, right, everybody. He actually becomes so ubiquitous that
virtually every American child knows who Santa is and what
(16:15):
he does, and they start to write him letters asking
for what they most want for Christmas. This is before
the concept of the North Pole was discovered to be
Santa's home, and so most kids think that he lives
behind the moon or somewhere in the clouds. But over
time kids start giving their Christmas lists to their mail carriers.
Suddenly thousands of So this happened basically just culturally by itself,
(16:40):
thousands of letters addressed viral. Christmas went viral, Yeah, but
the hardest way possible. In the early nineteen tenderly totally. So,
thousands of letters addressed to Santa Claus, the clouds or
even Heaven are circulating through the US postal system, most
of them winding up in Washington, d C. In what's
known as the Dead Letter Office. Oh yeah, so wonderful,
(17:02):
albl bye em. This is basically a graveyard for the
nation's undeliverable mail, and per policy, these letters either need
to be returned to sender or destroyed, but postal workers
can't bring themselves to throw a child's letter to Santo.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I was gonna say, send it back, That's what they
couldn't do because then it's like there's nobody at this
fucking heaven.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
They basically see that there is this issue where it's
like we throw it away and it goes unanswered, we
send it back and hearts are broken. Okay, So many
spend their own time and money buying the gifts on
the list and then delivering them. Some postal workers loop
in local churches and charities to help them out.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Okay, stop it, I'm going to cry right fucking now.
I mean, I've never heard this before, so above and beyond,
I can't even believe that they're gonna say they write
back to them.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
No, they fucking they do it. They fill it out.
And also that idea of like, because the postman is
really a part of your life, but it's just very specific. Yeah,
you know, kind of outside your door, you know them.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, the connection doesn't have to be there, just happened,
and they're like, great.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Let's do it, let's do this, let's get this kid
exactly what they want. Oh okay. So these beautiful but
technically forbidden acts of kindness become so commonplace that in
the early nineteen I can't open other people's yayay, it's
not allowed. But it's like Santa. So it becomes so
commonplace that in the early nineteen tens, the Postmaster General
(18:28):
has to step in and change the rules. Not only
are local postmasters now formally authorized to open letters to Santa,
but they can bundle them all together and hand them
off to charities to make sure people.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Don't always suck. Like, that's the thing you got to
keep in mind this holiday season.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
These are the stories. Yeah, Like, here's the turn. After
ten years, we're going to start telling only good people's stories.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I don't have one of those today though, Oh my
story is not that okay. So then after that in
the New year, twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Six later, you're fifteen okay. So this is when a
thirty five year old New Yorker named John Duval Gluck
comes into the picture. So John's born on Christmas Day,
so we know where he would be in that argument
and double presence. And he is born to a family
that loves the holidays. His parents are very good at Christmas.
(19:15):
They've embraced the giving spirit. They actually have a Gluck
family tradition. One of the men in their family plays
Santa Claus every year, and it said plays I don't
know if that meant like for the community or just
at home, but it's like clearly they're into it. So
when John hears about the Postal Services new policy on
Santa letters, there may have been part of him that
(19:36):
wanted to help spread the cheer like his family had
taught him to always do. But it seems John's also
one of those kind of people who wants people to
pat him on the back for doing the nice thing
more than they want to do the nice thing. Virtue signaling,
that's right, right, But in nineteen ten there's.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
No signaling then, yeah, because they didn't have that yet,
virtue telegraph telegraphing.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah. So John inherits his father's customs brokerage business at
a young age, so he makes a very nice living,
but he has his own insecurities, as we all do.
He is the shortest of his four brothers, and he
seems to overcompensate for it by being a big ham.
He's also balding, which is likely a difficult for him.
He's a short king. He's a short bald king.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Like, fucking own it and it's hot, you own it,
it's sexy, it's it.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Works every time. But what he does instead of owning
it is. He grows an impressive, meticulously maintained mustache to
make up that didn't work on me. I don't know,
just a big old back then, yes.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Not now now it's just like what are you a
fucking mixologist? But back then plower worked on me.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I don't know. Honestly, bald beard is my number one combination.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Bald beard, beer belly, Like, oh I vince fucking April,
I will marry there shit out of you. The moment
I saw him across the room and ring a Fred
Perry collared T shirt, I was like, that's his look,
that's my fucking future husband.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, and like cool tennis shoes, Like come on, yeah,
that's exactly that's all I want. It really is because
it says a lot about what's going on.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh, sorry to make it about me.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So while John loves to brag about being born on Christmas,
it is clearly bittersweet for him because it steals his
birthday thunder every year. He was probably very jealous when
he watched family members putting on that Santa suit and
getting all the attention, and he wanted it for himself.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
He wanted to put on his birthday suit and get
all that attention and be like.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Look at my mustache. So, when New York's postmaster starts
to formalize how letters to Santa should be handled, John
pitches himself as the person to handle it, pointing to
his customs brokerage background as proof that he understands logistics.
He claims he can process the letters and deliver all
those gifts, no problem.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Please tell me he does it and everything's okay and
he doesn't steal money from them.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I'll tell you this, it's the worst, bad version of
what we're usually waiting for at the end of a
story like this, the worst part. It's the worst No, no,
it's the least bad. Okay, I said worst bag. Yeah,
that's like he murders children. No no, no, no okay,
So least bad's fine, Okay, least bad. He's the inverse
of Albert Fish. Okay, can handle it. So he gets
(22:19):
the green light. Now he's in charge of thousands of
wish lists from children all over New York to Santa.
So in nineteen thirteen, John Gluck officially launches what's called
the Santa Claus Association out of the back room of
a restaurant called Henkel's shop shop on West thirty sixth
Street in Manhattan. Take me there, just the smell. Oh
(22:40):
my god, sorry, but I just saw this girl. Actually
don't know who it was, but they were going around
New York and there are little vending machines that look
like old stamp vending machines, like sticker ones, but yes,
but there's art in them. And so this somebody is
making like original watercolors, incredible of anything you'd want in me,
(23:00):
And so she kept they were a dollar, so she'd
have to get the quarter. So she'd like, we found
another one in this place, So we found another one.
At the end, she goes, I had one more for
my last one or whatever, and she opens it up
and it's an everything bagel and it is the most
perfect little drawing and everything bad drawing. This person know
where to put it down here up here, it's like
this big and it just says everything exclamation. It's like,
(23:24):
that's a tattoo. Yes, I'd get that tattoo. This person
was going around doing that, and then they were meeting
up with other people and trading like, we got this
one already. It's sucking cute.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I want that to happen to me, except I don't
want to drive her across town, so.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I know I'll do it in New York. Right. It
makes me want to go to New York in the
holidays the best, so good Nartie. Okay. So John's running
the Santa Claus Association out of this fairly modest setup,
but he's proud. He makes it known that reporters are
always welcome to drop by, and he's always ready with
a punchy quote when they get there. And that results
(23:57):
in John getting a lot of feel good coverage in
city newspapers about the Santa Claus Association. Readers take note
of this charismatic man who seems to exemplify the spirit
of Saint Nicholas. So here's how the Santa Claus Association works.
In December, the Postal Service hands over several heavy bags
containing all the undeliverable letters to Santa written by young
(24:19):
New Yorkers, usually well over ten thousand pieces of mail us.
Then John's volunteers, mostly society women or secretaries loaned out
by local businesses, start to sort through them and they
read each letter. They categorize it into different stacks. If
they get any repeats, from the same child. They pull
them out so duplicits don't go in. Any letters that
(24:42):
describe hunger, homelessness, or abuse are forwarded to the Public
Charities Commission, and those are investigated by city workers there.
Oh my god, I know, any that seems suspicious, like
maybe an adult wrote them. They go into their own
pile for further review. About seventy percent of these letters passing.
Then they're matched with the donors from New York Society,
(25:03):
who purchase the gifts and then have the option to
deliver them themselves.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I want to do this, right, Do I sign up
for this?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I know, I think I'd be good at it. Filing,
I'm really good at filing, filing, and just putting things
in like you belong over here.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh my god, I'm so good at categorizing things. Yeah,
fucking give me something, I'll.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
You want toys? You want many? Okay? Yeah. But most
donors just send the presents back to the Santa Claus Association,
which is then tasked with getting them to the right household.
It's a huge undertaking. Obviously, John quickly realizes he needs
way more manpower to actually receive the letters, wrap the gifts,
deliver the gifts serendipitously days into the Santa Claus Association's
(25:44):
soft launch amid all its glowing recent press. So I
guess sorry, it was a hard launch. Leaders from the
American Boy Scouts reach out great. They offer hundreds of
Scouts to help with wrapping and delivering packages. It sounds lovely,
but it's actually a very smart piece because the American
Boy Scouts have had a terrible reputation at this point. Oh,
(26:05):
because this is not the Boy Scouts of America. This
is the American Boy Scouts, not the same group. And
actually Boy Scouts of America has since rebranded as Scouting America.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right, so, just to keep it all you've seen that
documentary Oh so bad.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, both organizations come out of the so called Scouting
movement of the early twentieth century. They have very different mos.
The Boy Scouts of America currently, Scouting America is simply
geared at creating good citizens, whereas American Boy Scouts, the
one who are offering their helps to John Gluck, is
geared at training young men for military service. Okay, the
(26:43):
American Boy Scouts arm their young scouts with actual guns,
which has expectedly tragic consequences. In nineteen twelve, the year
before the Santa Claus Association is established, a twelve year
old Scout fatally shoots a nine year old boy in
the bronx after the younger boy makes a comment about
his uniform.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh my god, I mean, what happens when you give
children guns? They shoot each other. It's like basic fucking.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Matter, pretty clear. So membership noves dives following this tragedy,
but the American Boy Scouts hold firm on its gun
toting policy for children. A right, guys, just fucking keep
on keeping on. Yeah, So what they try to do
is a little damage control by changing its name to
the United States Boy Scouts. That doesn't really work, so
then they look for other ways, and here they find
(27:30):
the Santa Claus Association. Okay, given how scandalized the group
is at the time, people in John's position would have
turned their offer down. But John jumps at the opportunity
because not only can the Scouts handle deliveries at no
cost to him, but he figures they can also help
verify the letters that are in further review by going
door to door to see if they are actually families
(27:52):
in need. Okay, so he also likes the idea that
these troops of boys all in uniform are working on
behalf of the Santa Claus Association, like it's his little army.
He thinks it gives the whole thing a patriotic, wholesome
energy that will play well in the press. So on
Christmas of nineteen thirteen, the Santa Claus Association successively delivers
(28:14):
two more than thirteen thousand New York City children. Wow. Yeah,
this generates even more good press, and almost overnight, John
becomes a local celebrity. He's suddenly rubbing elbows with politicians
and society families, even early Hollywood stars. Within just a
few years, the Santa Claus Association becomes a full fledged
part of New York's increasingly glitzy holiday season. Everybody wants
(28:38):
to be a part of it. It said that John's
donor list includes members of the Vanderbilt and Astor families,
and eventually even Presidents William Harding and Calvin Coolidge.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You know, when you have those numbers like thirteen thousand children,
like you're allowed to be a little bit of cocky.
Look at me, look at me, persons.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Okay, thank you're right, Because he got it done. He
said he was going to do it, and then he
actually did it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, And the more attention he gets, the more people
will contribute. So I'm fine with him being a fucking
braggert or whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's for such a good cause, like who cares. So
now even more people want to volunteer their time with
the association. So to accommodate the increase in volunteers as
well as the ever increasing numbers of letters to Santa
John moves his headquarters into the Hotel Astor in Times
Square and then into the Woolworth Building, the tallest in
(29:26):
the world at the time. Of course, the genius of
John's whole system is that the Santa Claus Association doesn't
have to spend very much money to actually fulfill its mission.
Volunteers are donating their time, the Scouts donate the labor,
and of course the donors pay for all the presents.
Yet John is constantly fundraising. He says it's for operational
(29:49):
basics like postage stamps and packing supplies, but these are
fairly inexpensive purchases even when you buy them in bulk.
But John's fundraising is limitless. But it's the Santa Claus Association.
It brings joy to New York City's children, It gets
great press, it has solid endorsements from high society. So
no one's asking any questions about where all this money's going.
(30:11):
But if someone were to dig into John, they would
see some red flags. Not only is he the only
one handling the purse strings at the Santa Claus Association,
where they're ostensibly raising like near millions of dollars even
back then, but he also seems to be getting enormously
wealthy himself, far beyond what a normal business owner would.
(30:32):
He's also developing a slippery relationship with the truth and
some people notice. One example, he describes himself in a
publication as a sociologist. He also claims to have degrees
from elite universities in the US and abroad. He only
actually has a high school diploma. He also starts putting
ESQ after his name in some documents, implying that he's
(30:55):
a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Falls flag Esquire, sorry not false flag, stolen bower, thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Then he starts telling people he has worked with the
Secret Service, which is this should be a secret. It's yeah,
first of all, it's a secret. Secondly, why are you
like Why is that the lie that all liars love
to say? Right, I'm with the government, right black ops.
(31:22):
So now it's nineteen fifteen, the Santa Claus Association's third
year in operation. John Gluck makes a big Christmas Day
announcement to a group of reporters, declaring that he's going
to build a permanent home for this Santa Claus Association
in midtown Manhattan. He's going to call it the Santa
Claus Building, and he promises that it'll be quote the
(31:42):
most unique building in America and a quote national monument
to the Christmas spirit. There is a world, there's another
timeline where this all went beautifully totally.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
All year they operated as like a charitable foundation for
children in.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Need, giving children a need what they need. Yeah, and
we all went up from there, right, But now we're
in the Donald Trump timeline where we steal from children's charities.
That's right. And when I say we, I mean you. Okay,
how did you know? Who told you? When did you
get that job? Okay? So Gluck claims that this building
(32:18):
will be made of white marble, It will have a
deep arched entrance and a massive fifty foot stained glass
window of Santa Claus himself. Okay. The facade will feature
scenes from Saint Nicholas from around the world, sculpted by
artists from those companies. Thank you from those countries. Jesus Christ.
I want to stop podcasting so bad.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We're almost there. One more day of recording. We're almost done,
so close, We're so close.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You've got this. When you finish that, you're done. I'm
just going to keep my eyes on the page and
just get through it. Leave that, leave that in please,
okay reality. So yeah, we're so soon. He gets some
famous artists committed to this project. John says the ground
floor of the building will be devoted to different charitable organizations,
(33:09):
including the Santa Claus Association, but other ones as well.
Then there's going to be an auditorium where plays will
be produced, as well as an enormous kitchen that could
provide meals for a thousand people at a time. He's
just talking. The second floor will be filled with toys
from around the world. Some of these will be donated
to children in need, but others will be for sale.
(33:31):
John also promises a rooftop garden. He's like Faure Schwartz,
but also north Strom Cafe it's gonna be amazing. He's
like that one swindler that did the whole Anna Delvi.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
There she was like super pretending to be richen.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, and she was going to build a club, like
a private, like members only club in New York and
it had all these crazy things and it's like, that's
not real.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
She's Santa Claus Association. She tries Santa Claus. That building.
I mean, it is that. Basically, this guy's just thinking
up the mall. It's sounds like, okay, he promises a
rooftop garden and a swanky restaurant to boot. As writer
Alex Palmer reports, quote, the Santa Claus building would blend
spiritual ideals and consumerism so completely as to make them indistinguishable.
(34:14):
It can't happen. Yeah, sorry, they're not the same. So
Gluck's announcement makes headlines beyond New York, with newspapers reporting
on the Santa Claus building as far away as Kentucky
and Oregon. But all that marble and stained glass will
not come cheap. John estimates that the building will cost
in the ballpark of three hundred thousand dollars to construct,
(34:34):
which is what in today's money.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Three hundred thousand dollars in nineteen fifteen is going to
be Hold on, let me think D nine hundred and seventy.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Five ten million dollars. Holy shit, Yeah no, it's twenty twenty.
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Like every time we do this, it's like, that's not
that doesn't add up from what happened last time in
nineteen fifteen.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, I'm not yelling at you, but like that's why
we hate this. It's just never do we.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Ever go up that high from stories from nineteen fifteen.
I think they've broken a barrier here.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Like I try to be logical for real, but then
it's like, just never imagine that. Our economy is not
about logic.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I don't think you know what. That's not on me. Yeah,
that's not You forgot about the great depressions coming up?
The bunch of two thousand and eight is going to
be in there. So for the next decade, John fund
raises for the Santa Claus building year round. We've got
to make a building for Santa Claus. He publishes newspaper ads,
sends out mailers which prominently feature renderings of the building.
(35:33):
So it's real, real, here's the Blueprint. Yeah for real.
He hosts ritzy over the top galas that bring the rich, wealthy,
and charitable together in the name of giving. I love
a gala. I mean real long earrings, the longest.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Gloves, tiny food on silver charring. Wow, little Keisha's take
my money.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Give it to me gala. The last galle you got
to go to.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
We went to the Ronald McDonald How's Gala, like two
years ago, and son I bought a table and had
all our like a couple of our friends at the partied.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, NICs really lovely. We're a beautiful foundation. Yeah, because
you used to work there, so like he was legit.
That's when I first met you. Guys. You're a young,
scrappy couple. What about you. The last gala, huh, I
went to one for Pedaluma Schools, but I think it
was like two years ago, yeah or more. Yeah, just
telling you about this gala because writer Alex Palmer reports
(36:31):
that in nineteen twenty four, at a Santa Claus Association
party hosted on the roof of the Waldorf Astoria, Quote,
attendees included English actress Violet Inglefield wearing jewels so extravagant
that she had to be escorted to the party in
an armored car. Damn, her diamonds went all the way
to the ground. We don't know how much money John
(36:52):
is pulling in during this period, because, of course, there's
no accounting going on at the association, and he's the
only one in charge, and he's not doing any bookkeeping.
But what we do know is there's never any real
movement on the Santa Claus building, and there won't be
for a full ten years after John makes this announcement,
not even a hint of a possible construction timeline. But
(37:15):
nobody asks too many questions. The Santa Claus Association continues
to respond to children's letters year after year. There's no
shortage of heartwarming stories about it every holiday season in
New York's papers. And John is at the center of
all of it. So he's got to have goodness in
his heart right somewhere. Yet John is steadily escalating in
(37:36):
his bad behavior. For example, he's become increasingly committed to
the United States Boy Scouts, not the Boy Scouts of
America now called Scouting Away, it's called Yes. He's now
fundraising for them, but for a fee. But to raise
this money he's been exploiting people's confusion about the United
(37:56):
States Boy Scouts and the Boy Scouts of America finally
come back to bite him when he gets taken to
court by the Boy Scouts of America and in the
process it is revealed that he's been pocketing very large
amounts of the organization's funds. This nearly wrecks John's credibility
in the public eye, but he's a very slick mover
(38:16):
and he manages to kind of fix it, mostly because
of how beloved the Santa Claus Association is. He just
like plays that up. When things get dicey for him,
he just hides behind his famous charity and he basically
just rides out any scandal. So now it's the nineteen twenties,
which is known as the Golden Age of fundraising?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
When I you know, it's like, Maren, you are lying,
you are lying on paper. But I guess it was.
And it's because the economy's booming. There's new millionaires popping
up all over the place, and it's still the progressive
era where service is front and center for so many
people are giving like never before. And as the head
of one of new York City's most well known charities.
(38:58):
John Gluck knows this very well, so he starts creating
a suspiciously large number of side charities from the Santa
Claus Association. The missions of these groups are usually very
vague or weirdly specific, with names like the Defense Reports
Committee or the Serum Control of Cancer or there was
(39:19):
even something called the Window Cribs Society. Have you ever
seen the pictures of the babies in the Window Crib? Yes,
this is John. I love that. Okay. The Window Crib
Society advocated for chicken wire cages that parents could hang
outside their apartment windows so their babies could get some
fresh air.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Oh, you've seen the photos from then are just so creepy.
It's a baby fucking twelve stories up on basically like
a security gate.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Chicken wire. Yeah, like a chicken wire awning. Yeah, it's
like a cat cage nailed to a kitchen window and
the babies crawled out into it. Yeah, for fresh air,
for fresh air.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
And I promise you that's not what you're getting in
fucking New York to begin with.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Hong Kong, Hong Kong bebe. But I think that's the
craziest because I've always seen that just in kind of
like interesting facts you should know about. This was because
it really was a trend. People were doing it, but
it was all Santa Claus Society just trying to basically
launder money. Okay. Also perfect distraction. Yes, babies and chicken
(40:24):
people are just so freaked.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Out all the time you can't focus.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Okay. So these groups never do a whole lot aside
from fundraising, but to make them seem legit potential donors,
John starts to claim that they're backed by members of
New York's high society without those members' permission. Of course,
when rich socialites and business people discover they've been unknowingly
endorsing cage windows for babies, they are furious. And this
(40:50):
is when reporters and city officials finally start poking into
the world of John Gluck. But of course, what John
does when there's heat on any charities, he just shuts
it down for anything escalates and then goes on to
create a new one. And he every time pulls in
some unknown amount of cash with his fundraising, and then
of course pockets most if not all of it, but
(41:12):
also growing a list of donors, so he gets out
there and he kisses babies and cages and shakes hands
and then finds new people to give him money. It's
said by the nineteen twenties, John's master mailing list contains
roughly seventy six thousand names. Wow, pre internet. So now
it's the late twenties and a straight laced, rule loving
(41:32):
public servant named Bird S. Kohler is now the New
York City's Commissioner of Public Welfare. And this very outspoken
man who believes that charity should be tightly regulated and
heavily scrutinized.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
He is fun.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, I mean, this is like the prohibition era brings
in all these guys. I mean he's great, but who
would you rather be at a party with? No? Clearly,
John Glug is the man. I mean he's like, he's like,
let's you and me do some good and then I
will also get money.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah's fun. He's fun. He's already a rich guy. He's
a rich guy that knows how to make rich guy
give him money, and he does it. But basically, Bird
Kohler sees how flashy and hammy and publicity hungry John
Gluck is, and he's instantly suspicious about his intentions, so
he hits the Santa Claus Association with an official audit.
Things very quickly unravel. Cohler learns that since the Santa
(42:24):
Claus Association began, John Gluck has been running the whole
thing himself with zero oversight. He has made up dozens
of employees, all listed on the payroll to give the
illusion that there's financial accountability within the organization. You can't
do that, No, you're not allowed to do that. That's
actually illegal. As a result, huge sums of money have
flowed in and out of the charity without any documentation
(42:46):
on how it was spent. So in nineteen twenty seven alone,
Cohler learns that the Santa Claus Association raised at least
one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
What was the other one? It's three hundred, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You do a million, two millions and it's all gone. Yeah,
so he In the end, Bird Kohler's audit of the
association concludes that John had embezzled virtually all of the
charity's funds, millions and millions in today's money that had
been donated not only for the Santa Claus building, but
also for the operational expenses. Of it. These findings generate
(43:25):
a tsunami of nationwide press that exposed John's schemes and
sully his reputation for good. People are outraged, and of course,
practically overnight all the social capital that he had spent
a decade cultivating is over. The Post Office meanwhile, abruptly
ends its partnership with the Santa Claus Association. Yeah, so
in nineteen twenty eight, John shutters the organization officially, even
(43:48):
though he can no longer treat it as his personal
slush fund. Now we are sadly back to square one,
needing to answer kids letters to Santa Claus. So after
the collapse of the Santa Claus Associations, all organizations step
in to help with letters to Santa. Decades later, Operation
Santa Claus replaces this system and in the coming years
(44:08):
expands into a nationwide program. So today you can visit
the United States Postal Service operations Santa dot com and
you can read children's wish lists. They're scanned and they're
shared there for you to read for yourself, and you
can answer one if you would like to. It's estimated
that the Santa Claus Association provided somewhere around a quarter
(44:31):
million gifts for New York City's children. We will never
know what good the money John embezzled could have done,
because he was getting millions in the spirit of give
somebody who doesn't have what they need for the holidays
something great. Meanwhile, John Gluck gets away with it. He's
never prosecuted for any financial crimes, which is actually often
(44:53):
attributed to the Great Depression hitting and overshadowing this entire scandal.
What we know for sure is that he winds up
leaving New York and resurfacing in Miami, where he reinvents
himself as a real estate broker, and he lives there
until the early fifties, when he dies at age seventy three.
Alex Palmer writes in his book John Gluck never heads
(45:14):
another charity, though it's unclear if this is because he
finally learned his lesson or because post depression reforms finally
put guardrails on fundraising for charity. He's like, now it's
not worth it. Yeah, And that is the story of
New York City's opportunistic Santa claus Man, John Gluck. Happy Holiday.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
So he never had to give back any of the
money he lost it, but he.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Spent it all. He spent it on himself and like
did whatever. But then like basically the market crash of
nineteen twenty nine and overnight it was like no one
had anything. Nobody was looking for the millions he stole
when people were jumping out of windows.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Totally. Wow, that's fucked up. I've never heard that before.
I haven't ether must be because it's right by the Great Depression.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, that's right. It got good. That's a fucking good
fraud star, isn't it good? Yeah, it was gonna it
was going to be a story for New York for yeah,
a live show. Yeah, good one. All right, well, thank
you job.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I'm glad we're donating to feed the children. It's fitting.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Finally someone gives back after this gigantic ripoff. Although goad.
It's like the Santa Claus Building if it was made
in like nineteen fifteen, by now, it would be gorgeous.
They would be They would be carrying cancer in there, Yeah,
they would be doing everything all the You would have
this kind of like focused attention on goodness.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
What is it about him that made him not do that?
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Greed?
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Greed that sucks? Oh men?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Oh you men, you well that's that's where we're going
to bring you down to this holiday season. Good job, guys,
we did it. Guys. Focus on the Santa Claus Building
in your mind.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Don't be like the Santa Claus guy.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
No, no, be the doorman of the Santa Claus building
and open open the door of the Santa Claus Building
in your heart, in your heart, and welcome all of
the children in, adult children in. That's right this holiday season.
That's right. And stay sex and don't get murdered. You
thought I'd never get to it.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Bye, Elvis, do you want to cookie?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
This has been an exactly right production.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer
is Tessa Hughes.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Our editor is Aristotle Ascevedo. This episode was mixed by
Leona Scuolacci. Our researchers are Mary mclachan and Ali Elkin.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite Murder.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Podcasts, or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for
My Favorite Murder. Then can subscribe God, I
Hello and welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
That's my favorite murder.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
That's Georgia Hartstar, that's Karen Kilcara, and it is the
holiday season. Yay.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
We decorated, except by we, I mean not we, other people.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Molly, our producer, decorated gorgeous, so pretty. It looks really nice.
There's a kind of it has like an ice skating vibe.
Totally right.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, h what are you looking forward to with our
little holiday break coming up?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I can't wait to see Millenia's decorations. I can't wait
to see what she's doing to bring the spirit of
the season into the White House. I can't wait for
those cookies that are peanut butter cookies with Hershey's kisses
on top. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Do you know I got to seize Advent calendar if
it's got me? A Sea's Advent calendar.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
With different candies and every day, every.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Day has a different Seas candy. It's the cutest thing
I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
That's the best. But you know, what did you bring
me candy?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thence went into the Sea's Candy at the Americana and
there was a Murderino working what and she and her sister.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I'll have that one.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Erica and Sylvia, and I think Sylvia worked there. Gave
us a fucking bag of straight up seas candy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Oh my god, well just put your face in there. No, actually,
maybe don't do that. That's germs smelling, I know.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
And there's one way there that's caramel and marshmallow. I
kind of tell by looking out with them what they are.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Now. Yeah, I'm pretty good at it. Yeah, I think this.
There's circular ones. I don't know as well because they're
usually trefily. But sorry, there's there's a square one over here.
Can I eat it? Well? Do you want to eat it?
I can't.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh, I give it to you before we started, like
I should have done tho you before.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
There, Sylvia, Erica, thank you so much. Thanks y'all. That's
the best news of all time, I.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Know, except friends at sea for two hours, Friends at seas,
Friends at Caesar.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
I got a box of seas from my accountant, like
you know when you get a kid at Christmas, and
it was just a one pound box of seas. I
opened it. I was like, oh, that's really nice. I
opened it. I was like, am I going somewhere? Should
I give that? And I was like, oh no, I'm
fully free to eat this at will.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
A Sea's candy box to yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Poke your finger right through the bottom, eat a bite
of each of them, never eat one you don't want again.
Oh my god, it was a dream.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
That is one of the struggles with being married, I
think is having to not look like a raccoon when
you're midway through a seize candy box and like, I
don't want Vince in my family. You take a bite
and you put it back like that's what. Like, you
open it and there's so everyone could taste them, and
Vince's like you.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Just said, for I was smelling it and you're worried
about germs. That's true. That's true. Family, say yeah, you
know what you're getting with those people.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Actually, this is a good segue. I have a holiday
pick aside. Oh perfect, Do you want to do it
real quick?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
What a way to celebrate, right, So we do pick
a side where we just tell people if they're right
or wrong and argue about it. So here's a good
holiday one. This is a dm on Instagram from Chantel.
My family has always made present opening a big deal
and it's important not to rip through them all and
take the time to say thank you after each gift.
Multiple people can open it once, but once you have
(03:34):
it open, you show the group, say thanks, and move on.
My partner's family thinks that it takes too long and
will open multiple presents without telling anyone what he got.
It's not to be rude, and he is thankful, however,
and messes up everyone's vibe. And I want to know
what you got. Hopefully this year we can come up
with a game plan before opening begins. I mean, the
(03:56):
the amount of emotional tetris we put ourselves through to
like not be like that sucks, you shouldn't do that.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It's like they don't understand what Christmas is, right, because
Christmas is, yes, you're no longer eight years old, but
Christmas is being excited about the box, trying to figure
out what someone might have given you opening it up.
It's a planner. You're like, thanks, and you do, and
then you go through it because it's still a gift totally,
and you're still but you're waiting for the big one
(04:25):
or whatever, and that is just the like, isn't that
the tradition?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I think not doing the rules of the family whose
house you're at is weird. Yeah, like whatever it is,
if you're there, you follow their rules or it's weird.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
But also I think I don't know if someone has
a diametrically opposed to how you celebrate a major holiday,
then it is like what camp is that? Right? It's
almost like everyone got up, Like the second you're done
with presence, you just go watch TV in your room,
like what's happening? Right? Don't you want to?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think that I wonder how many of these we've
done that? Are you should break up that they're asking
for legit advice and we're just like that's not the
right person for you then.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Or maybe like if that's kind of like more his speed,
he gets to do that at home and then when
he's somewhere else or when he's at that house. Yeah,
of course.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But we shouldn't have to tell him that he should
if he doesn't know that.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
No, you're right, we should don't have to talk. I
don't think this is uh, there's a side here.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I think that this person's doing what is it called
emotional gymnastics? Oh to like not be like this really
upsets me and I don't like it. And it's okay
if I don't like it right, you know what I
mean without me being me saying he's bad or you know.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, because maybe it doesn't even really upset you. It's
just like what are you doing? Why would you want
to do it that way? I think that's like the
mad The basis of every fight is why are you?
Why do you want to do things this way? You're
the one doing it? Like is this pleasant? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Are you getting more out of this than you would
if you just like follow the rules? Just like family they've.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Got you have to go off and privately open. Maybe
it's somebody that gets embarrassed and can't talk about their
feeling of spotlight embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, it can be a really awkward like embarrassing to
have it on the spotlight on you.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
And then if you're not grateful, it looks like it Yeah,
or some storyline maybe.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Oh shit, we're empathizing. Now, do you want to hear mine?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yeah? This one is It says DM on Instagram from Natasia,
but that's spelled Nastassia and the first s is a
dollar sign. Yeah, you've got a battie on her hands
and it says December baby here my birthday is on
the twenty eighth of December. I've always believed that I
deserve Christmas and birthday presents. My friend's sister shares the
(06:43):
same birthday and they give her conjoined Christmas birthday. To me,
that's crazy. I wholeheartedly believe that December babies deserve double
presents for being born around the holidays. Change my mind,
No way, I'm standing ground. That's fair. I'm standing my ground.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Everyone gets a Christmas and a birthday, why shouldn't you.
I would just wait a couple of days, you know,
after Christmas to do it right or like before?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Do it before or after? Double presence is a given,
yeah or like.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
But if it's like not, then the present is like
fucking better than everyone else.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
It's always a bike. It's always a ten speed bike.
It's always a motorcycle. Yeah, it's one of those motorcycles
that kids can ride on the street. Now. They don't
need helmets and they don't need terrifying there's no yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, I think that's fair enough to want about those things. Yes,
but absolutely, if your birthday week is Christmas, that's fucking bullshit.
And Christmas would want presents if it was your birthday
that everyone was celebrating that's right.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And also Christmas would want more attention if everyone was
paying attention to you, Well, it's Christmas sat in the corner.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I would have a New Year's Birthday party. That
would be fun.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Oh, just like build the momentum all the way. Just
to follow that up, should we give our December donation? Oh?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, speaking of giving in presence, do it so.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
As you might know by this point, we've had a
holiday tradition for the last three years where we make
donations throughout the month of December, giving to charities that
make a real difference in people's lives.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So today we're donating ten thousand dollars to Feed the Children.
They're dedicated to ending childhood hunger here at home and
around the world.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Feed the Children provides food, school supplies, clean water, household
and hygiene essentials to help families thrive, and in twenty
twenty four alone, they distributed more than eighty point six
million pounds of food and essentials across the United States.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Incredible. If you'd like to join us in supporting their work,
head to Feed the Children dot org. And if donating
isn't possible right now, you can also explore volunteer opportunities
at Feed the Children dot volunteer hub dot com.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
There's always a way to give love that. Yeah, well,
we have a network. Do you want to talk about
it really quick before we get into this is a
solo episode, so we just get our business taken care
of so.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Real quick on the Exactly Right Network. This week on
The Knight, Hannah and Paytia look into a twenty seventeen
tip about a suspicious co that led FBI agent Mark
Hastbaka to expose a serial con artist. They break down
how he uncovered her long running scheme.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And then over on Brief Recess, Michael and Melissa sit
down with political satirist Walter Masterson for a sharp, lively
conversation about politics, performance and the art of calling out
the absurd.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
And on Dear Movies, I Love You, Millie and Casey
take a look at the very best films of twenty
twenty five, their favorites of the year, stand out, first
time watches, and what they think twenty twenty six will bring.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Also, if you're looking for a last minute gift, the
Exactly Right Store has everything you need to make the holidays.
Marry and fright check out our new skeleton Santa unisex
crew neck. Who's got I got it? This is so good?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yes, Oh, I feel like you could wear this year
round and just be like the coolest kid entirely.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
There's just the whole vibe of it.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
If you want that to an ugly sweater party for Christmas.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
You'd win. You'd win hands down. There's also the skeleton ornament.
I haven't Oh yeah, the little guy, he's prescially if
you want to put him on our tree, this skeleton
ornament is going to turn out to be like an airloom.
If that gets passed down, it works perfectly in front
of the other one. That's the way you do it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Toxic Masculinity ornament.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
That's a beautiful ornament and it looks very fragile, but
it's actually not.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Does it look to you like I realized I saw
the video the other day and it looks like the
baby Bell cheeses.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Oh yeah, oh, that'd be Baby Bell cheese as an ornament.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Is such a good idea. They kind of have that
like some kind of okay.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Well, then there's also this guy Toxic Masculinity sweatshirt.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Right, and then also of course the Mothman plushy keychain,
so precious, hanging on the tree, so typical, although.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
It's kind of heavy. Thanks, what if we put him
right here? It's perfect?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Oh can't.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
He's just gonna sit down love it. Yeah that's good.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah. So if you ever wanted to match your tree
now you can. Had to exactly right store dot com
to shop now.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And order please by December fourteenth, so that you can
get your items by December twenty fifth.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Thank you guys for doing that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yes, we love to make fun merch for you. Okay,
your solo today, it's solo time and I hope you
like this. It's a Christmas story. Oh and it's well
you'll see this story starts. It's mid December, the holiday season.
(11:24):
The world is a wash in the sea of red
and green, and along with many other major winter cultural observations,
Christmas is here. But my story is from an era
when our modern holiday mania began, the early nineteen hundreds
in New York City, and there was one man who
took people's holiday cheer and goodwill and lots and lots
(11:45):
of their money and used it all to make himself
into a jazz age celebrity. This is the story of
New York's Santa claus Man John Duval Gluck.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Wow, I've never heard this one.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So Maren used the writing and research of a writer
named Alex Palmer who published the book The Santa claus Man,
and John Gluck is his great grand uncle. Wow. So
it's a family story. Cool. The rest of the sources
are in our show notes. Okay, so we go. Let's
go back to the origins of Santa Claus. If you would,
for just one moment, please, this jew needs to know
(12:19):
what right? Don't you wonder where Santa Claus is originally from?
I thought he was Jewish.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I thought he was Jewish.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Turkey, Oh, you know, not far away. Sometime around two
hundred and eighty a d a series of legends emerge
about a selfless Christian bishop named Nicholas who roams the
countryside giving away the fortune he inherited at birth. That's different.
In what is maybe the most famous of these stories,
Nicholas tosses gold to three young sisters to save them
(12:47):
from being sold into slavery by their destitute father.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Over the years, these stories spread throughout Europe, and Nicholas
becomes known as the patron saint of children.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Wow, you don't hear a lot about charitable billionaires these days.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
No, No, I bet you. His dad didn't even get
into the bees. He was down and.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Insane low ms what would be in today's money.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Though, having to calculate today's money from two eighty, the
calculator just snaps in half. Okay. So Saint Nicholas's feast
day is December sixth, and that's when it's said that
he died, so it becomes a very lucky day from
many Europeans, and a day where adults bring little candies
(13:33):
or modest gifts to children in the spirit of Saint Nick.
This is of course a couple weeks before December twenty fifth,
which is the day Christians observe the Birth of Christ.
So over the years, basically those two days blend together,
with the Birth of Christ winning out and Saint Nicholas coming.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Interesting, he just becomes a mascot instead of the actual
reason for the season.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yes, exactly, Digust he gets blended in. But then as
century pass he remains so popular and beloved that even
after the Protestant Reformation, when devotion to saints fades across
much of Europe. You know, the Protestants. They stripped out
all that.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Stuff, for sure, heresy all that shit.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
But old Saint Nick indoors. This is particularly true in
the Netherlands, where he's known by the truncated nickname Cinerclas.
And it's through the Dutch settlers emigrating to New York
in eighteenth century that we first met Saint Nick here
in America.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
So I don't know why I can't read today, so
in I should just do it from memory. So in
eighteen oh nine, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow author Washington
Irving publishes a satirical history of New York City that
depicts Saint Nick is a kind of paternal mascot for
Dutch New Yorkers, and basically he's described as a pipe
(14:52):
smoking gift giving a man who rides through the sky
in a flying wagon. And around the same time, the
wealthy founder of the New York Historical Society named John
Pintard campaigned to actually make Saint Nicholas the city's patron saint.
It doesn't work. What finally catapults Saint Nicholas into the
American zeitgeist is a single poem written in eighteen twenty
(15:13):
two by another New Yorker, Clement Clark Moore, called a
Visit from Saint Nicholas. Now we kind of know it
better as the Night Before Christmas. Wow, So in it
more picks the version of Saint Nicholas that's still with
us today. The plump, rosy cheeked, white bearded man who
flies around in a sleigh pulled by eight reindeer. You know,
(15:34):
all of this delivering gifts to children. The poem is
an instant hit when it comes out, and it spreads
far beyond New York, and it actually never really fades
in popularity, so people like latch onto it, and we've
never let it go. So this brings us back to
the early nineteen hundreds. Saint Nicholas, now better known as
Santa Claus, has become a mainstream American icon and tradition.
(15:54):
Department stores are booming at this time the early nineteen hundreds,
advertised is taking off. So every holiday season Santa Claus
appears in newspaper ads and elaborate window displays. Wow, it
just takes off, just like that. Yeah, it's this time
of year, right, everybody. He actually becomes so ubiquitous that
virtually every American child knows who Santa is and what
(16:15):
he does, and they start to write him letters asking
for what they most want for Christmas. This is before
the concept of the North Pole was discovered to be
Santa's home, and so most kids think that he lives
behind the moon or somewhere in the clouds. But over
time kids start giving their Christmas lists to their mail carriers.
Suddenly thousands of So this happened basically just culturally by itself,
(16:40):
thousands of letters addressed viral. Christmas went viral, Yeah, but
the hardest way possible. In the early nineteen tenderly totally. So,
thousands of letters addressed to Santa Claus, the clouds or
even Heaven are circulating through the US postal system, most
of them winding up in Washington, d C. In what's
known as the Dead Letter Office. Oh yeah, so wonderful,
(17:02):
albl bye em. This is basically a graveyard for the
nation's undeliverable mail, and per policy, these letters either need
to be returned to sender or destroyed, but postal workers
can't bring themselves to throw a child's letter to Santo.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I was gonna say, send it back, That's what they
couldn't do because then it's like there's nobody at this
fucking heaven.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
They basically see that there is this issue where it's
like we throw it away and it goes unanswered, we
send it back and hearts are broken. Okay, So many
spend their own time and money buying the gifts on
the list and then delivering them. Some postal workers loop
in local churches and charities to help them out.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Okay, stop it, I'm going to cry right fucking now.
I mean, I've never heard this before, so above and beyond,
I can't even believe that they're gonna say they write
back to them.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
No, they fucking they do it. They fill it out.
And also that idea of like, because the postman is
really a part of your life, but it's just very specific. Yeah,
you know, kind of outside your door, you know them.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, the connection doesn't have to be there, just happened,
and they're like, great.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Let's do it, let's do this, let's get this kid
exactly what they want. Oh okay. So these beautiful but
technically forbidden acts of kindness become so commonplace that in
the early nineteen I can't open other people's yayay, it's
not allowed. But it's like Santa. So it becomes so
commonplace that in the early nineteen tens, the Postmaster General
(18:28):
has to step in and change the rules. Not only
are local postmasters now formally authorized to open letters to Santa,
but they can bundle them all together and hand them
off to charities to make sure people.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Don't always suck. Like, that's the thing you got to
keep in mind this holiday season.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
These are the stories. Yeah, Like, here's the turn. After
ten years, we're going to start telling only good people's stories.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I don't have one of those today though, Oh my
story is not that okay. So then after that in
the New year, twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Six later, you're fifteen okay. So this is when a
thirty five year old New Yorker named John Duval Gluck
comes into the picture. So John's born on Christmas Day,
so we know where he would be in that argument
and double presence. And he is born to a family
that loves the holidays. His parents are very good at Christmas.
(19:15):
They've embraced the giving spirit. They actually have a Gluck
family tradition. One of the men in their family plays
Santa Claus every year, and it said plays I don't
know if that meant like for the community or just
at home, but it's like clearly they're into it. So
when John hears about the Postal Services new policy on
Santa letters, there may have been part of him that
(19:36):
wanted to help spread the cheer like his family had
taught him to always do. But it seems John's also
one of those kind of people who wants people to
pat him on the back for doing the nice thing
more than they want to do the nice thing. Virtue signaling,
that's right, right, But in nineteen ten there's.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
No signaling then, yeah, because they didn't have that yet,
virtue telegraph telegraphing.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah. So John inherits his father's customs brokerage business at
a young age, so he makes a very nice living,
but he has his own insecurities, as we all do.
He is the shortest of his four brothers, and he
seems to overcompensate for it by being a big ham.
He's also balding, which is likely a difficult for him.
He's a short king. He's a short bald king.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Like, fucking own it and it's hot, you own it,
it's sexy, it's it.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Works every time. But what he does instead of owning
it is. He grows an impressive, meticulously maintained mustache to
make up that didn't work on me. I don't know,
just a big old back then, yes.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Not now now it's just like what are you a
fucking mixologist? But back then plower worked on me.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I don't know. Honestly, bald beard is my number one combination.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Bald beard, beer belly, Like, oh I vince fucking April,
I will marry there shit out of you. The moment
I saw him across the room and ring a Fred
Perry collared T shirt, I was like, that's his look,
that's my fucking future husband.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, and like cool tennis shoes, Like come on, yeah,
that's exactly that's all I want. It really is because
it says a lot about what's going on.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh, sorry to make it about me.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
So while John loves to brag about being born on Christmas,
it is clearly bittersweet for him because it steals his
birthday thunder every year. He was probably very jealous when
he watched family members putting on that Santa suit and
getting all the attention, and he wanted it for himself.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
He wanted to put on his birthday suit and get
all that attention and be like.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Look at my mustache. So, when New York's postmaster starts
to formalize how letters to Santa should be handled, John
pitches himself as the person to handle it, pointing to
his customs brokerage background as proof that he understands logistics.
He claims he can process the letters and deliver all
those gifts, no problem.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Please tell me he does it and everything's okay and
he doesn't steal money from them.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I'll tell you this, it's the worst, bad version of
what we're usually waiting for at the end of a
story like this, the worst part. It's the worst No, no,
it's the least bad. Okay, I said worst bag. Yeah,
that's like he murders children. No no, no, no okay,
So least bad's fine, Okay, least bad. He's the inverse
of Albert Fish. Okay, can handle it. So he gets
(22:19):
the green light. Now he's in charge of thousands of
wish lists from children all over New York to Santa.
So in nineteen thirteen, John Gluck officially launches what's called
the Santa Claus Association out of the back room of
a restaurant called Henkel's shop shop on West thirty sixth
Street in Manhattan. Take me there, just the smell. Oh
(22:40):
my god, sorry, but I just saw this girl. Actually
don't know who it was, but they were going around
New York and there are little vending machines that look
like old stamp vending machines, like sticker ones, but yes,
but there's art in them. And so this somebody is
making like original watercolors, incredible of anything you'd want in me,
(23:00):
And so she kept they were a dollar, so she'd
have to get the quarter. So she'd like, we found
another one in this place, So we found another one.
At the end, she goes, I had one more for
my last one or whatever, and she opens it up
and it's an everything bagel and it is the most
perfect little drawing and everything bad drawing. This person know
where to put it down here up here, it's like
this big and it just says everything exclamation. It's like,
(23:24):
that's a tattoo. Yes, I'd get that tattoo. This person
was going around doing that, and then they were meeting
up with other people and trading like, we got this
one already. It's sucking cute.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I want that to happen to me, except I don't
want to drive her across town, so.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I know I'll do it in New York. Right. It
makes me want to go to New York in the
holidays the best, so good Nartie. Okay. So John's running
the Santa Claus Association out of this fairly modest setup,
but he's proud. He makes it known that reporters are
always welcome to drop by, and he's always ready with
a punchy quote when they get there. And that results
(23:57):
in John getting a lot of feel good coverage in
city newspapers about the Santa Claus Association. Readers take note
of this charismatic man who seems to exemplify the spirit
of Saint Nicholas. So here's how the Santa Claus Association works.
In December, the Postal Service hands over several heavy bags
containing all the undeliverable letters to Santa written by young
(24:19):
New Yorkers, usually well over ten thousand pieces of mail us.
Then John's volunteers, mostly society women or secretaries loaned out
by local businesses, start to sort through them and they
read each letter. They categorize it into different stacks. If
they get any repeats, from the same child. They pull
them out so duplicits don't go in. Any letters that
(24:42):
describe hunger, homelessness, or abuse are forwarded to the Public
Charities Commission, and those are investigated by city workers there.
Oh my god, I know, any that seems suspicious, like
maybe an adult wrote them. They go into their own
pile for further review. About seventy percent of these letters passing.
Then they're matched with the donors from New York Society,
(25:03):
who purchase the gifts and then have the option to
deliver them themselves.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I want to do this, right, Do I sign up
for this?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I know, I think I'd be good at it. Filing,
I'm really good at filing, filing, and just putting things
in like you belong over here.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh my god, I'm so good at categorizing things. Yeah,
fucking give me something, I'll.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
You want toys? You want many? Okay? Yeah. But most
donors just send the presents back to the Santa Claus Association,
which is then tasked with getting them to the right household.
It's a huge undertaking. Obviously, John quickly realizes he needs
way more manpower to actually receive the letters, wrap the gifts,
deliver the gifts serendipitously days into the Santa Claus Association's
(25:44):
soft launch amid all its glowing recent press. So I
guess sorry, it was a hard launch. Leaders from the
American Boy Scouts reach out great. They offer hundreds of
Scouts to help with wrapping and delivering packages. It sounds lovely,
but it's actually a very smart piece because the American
Boy Scouts have had a terrible reputation at this point. Oh,
(26:05):
because this is not the Boy Scouts of America. This
is the American Boy Scouts, not the same group. And
actually Boy Scouts of America has since rebranded as Scouting America.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Right, so, just to keep it all you've seen that
documentary Oh so bad.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, both organizations come out of the so called Scouting
movement of the early twentieth century. They have very different mos.
The Boy Scouts of America currently, Scouting America is simply
geared at creating good citizens, whereas American Boy Scouts, the
one who are offering their helps to John Gluck, is
geared at training young men for military service. Okay, the
(26:43):
American Boy Scouts arm their young scouts with actual guns,
which has expectedly tragic consequences. In nineteen twelve, the year
before the Santa Claus Association is established, a twelve year
old Scout fatally shoots a nine year old boy in
the bronx after the younger boy makes a comment about
his uniform.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Oh my god, I mean, what happens when you give
children guns? They shoot each other. It's like basic fucking.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Matter, pretty clear. So membership noves dives following this tragedy,
but the American Boy Scouts hold firm on its gun
toting policy for children. A right, guys, just fucking keep
on keeping on. Yeah, So what they try to do
is a little damage control by changing its name to
the United States Boy Scouts. That doesn't really work, so
then they look for other ways, and here they find
(27:30):
the Santa Claus Association. Okay, given how scandalized the group
is at the time, people in John's position would have
turned their offer down. But John jumps at the opportunity
because not only can the Scouts handle deliveries at no
cost to him, but he figures they can also help
verify the letters that are in further review by going
door to door to see if they are actually families
(27:52):
in need. Okay, so he also likes the idea that
these troops of boys all in uniform are working on
behalf of the Santa Claus Association, like it's his little army.
He thinks it gives the whole thing a patriotic, wholesome
energy that will play well in the press. So on
Christmas of nineteen thirteen, the Santa Claus Association successively delivers
(28:14):
two more than thirteen thousand New York City children. Wow. Yeah,
this generates even more good press, and almost overnight, John
becomes a local celebrity. He's suddenly rubbing elbows with politicians
and society families, even early Hollywood stars. Within just a
few years, the Santa Claus Association becomes a full fledged
part of New York's increasingly glitzy holiday season. Everybody wants
(28:38):
to be a part of it. It said that John's
donor list includes members of the Vanderbilt and Astor families,
and eventually even Presidents William Harding and Calvin Coolidge.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
You know, when you have those numbers like thirteen thousand children,
like you're allowed to be a little bit of cocky.
Look at me, look at me, persons.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Okay, thank you're right, Because he got it done. He
said he was going to do it, and then he
actually did it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, And the more attention he gets, the more people
will contribute. So I'm fine with him being a fucking
braggert or whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's for such a good cause, like who cares. So
now even more people want to volunteer their time with
the association. So to accommodate the increase in volunteers as
well as the ever increasing numbers of letters to Santa
John moves his headquarters into the Hotel Astor in Times
Square and then into the Woolworth Building, the tallest in
(29:26):
the world at the time. Of course, the genius of
John's whole system is that the Santa Claus Association doesn't
have to spend very much money to actually fulfill its mission.
Volunteers are donating their time, the Scouts donate the labor,
and of course the donors pay for all the presents.
Yet John is constantly fundraising. He says it's for operational
(29:49):
basics like postage stamps and packing supplies, but these are
fairly inexpensive purchases even when you buy them in bulk.
But John's fundraising is limitless. But it's the Santa Claus Association.
It brings joy to New York City's children, It gets
great press, it has solid endorsements from high society. So
no one's asking any questions about where all this money's going.
(30:11):
But if someone were to dig into John, they would
see some red flags. Not only is he the only
one handling the purse strings at the Santa Claus Association,
where they're ostensibly raising like near millions of dollars even
back then, but he also seems to be getting enormously
wealthy himself, far beyond what a normal business owner would.
(30:32):
He's also developing a slippery relationship with the truth and
some people notice. One example, he describes himself in a
publication as a sociologist. He also claims to have degrees
from elite universities in the US and abroad. He only
actually has a high school diploma. He also starts putting
ESQ after his name in some documents, implying that he's
(30:55):
a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Falls flag Esquire, sorry not false flag, stolen bower, thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Then he starts telling people he has worked with the
Secret Service, which is this should be a secret. It's yeah,
first of all, it's a secret. Secondly, why are you
like Why is that the lie that all liars love
to say? Right, I'm with the government, right black ops.
(31:22):
So now it's nineteen fifteen, the Santa Claus Association's third
year in operation. John Gluck makes a big Christmas Day
announcement to a group of reporters, declaring that he's going
to build a permanent home for this Santa Claus Association
in midtown Manhattan. He's going to call it the Santa
Claus Building, and he promises that it'll be quote the
(31:42):
most unique building in America and a quote national monument
to the Christmas spirit. There is a world, there's another
timeline where this all went beautifully totally.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
All year they operated as like a charitable foundation for
children in.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Need, giving children a need what they need. Yeah, and
we all went up from there, right, But now we're
in the Donald Trump timeline where we steal from children's charities.
That's right. And when I say we, I mean you. Okay,
how did you know? Who told you? When did you
get that job? Okay? So Gluck claims that this building
(32:18):
will be made of white marble, It will have a
deep arched entrance and a massive fifty foot stained glass
window of Santa Claus himself. Okay. The facade will feature
scenes from Saint Nicholas from around the world, sculpted by
artists from those companies. Thank you from those countries. Jesus Christ.
I want to stop podcasting so bad.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We're almost there. One more day of recording. We're almost done,
so close, We're so close.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You've got this. When you finish that, you're done. I'm
just going to keep my eyes on the page and
just get through it. Leave that, leave that in please,
okay reality. So yeah, we're so soon. He gets some
famous artists committed to this project. John says the ground
floor of the building will be devoted to different charitable organizations,
(33:09):
including the Santa Claus Association, but other ones as well.
Then there's going to be an auditorium where plays will
be produced, as well as an enormous kitchen that could
provide meals for a thousand people at a time. He's
just talking. The second floor will be filled with toys
from around the world. Some of these will be donated
to children in need, but others will be for sale.
(33:31):
John also promises a rooftop garden. He's like Faure Schwartz,
but also north Strom Cafe it's gonna be amazing. He's
like that one swindler that did the whole Anna Delvi.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
M hm.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
There she was like super pretending to be richen.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, and she was going to build a club, like
a private, like members only club in New York and
it had all these crazy things and it's like, that's
not real.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
She's Santa Claus Association. She tries Santa Claus. That building.
I mean, it is that. Basically, this guy's just thinking
up the mall. It's sounds like, okay, he promises a
rooftop garden and a swanky restaurant to boot. As writer
Alex Palmer reports, quote, the Santa Claus building would blend
spiritual ideals and consumerism so completely as to make them indistinguishable.
(34:14):
It can't happen. Yeah, sorry, they're not the same. So
Gluck's announcement makes headlines beyond New York, with newspapers reporting
on the Santa Claus building as far away as Kentucky
and Oregon. But all that marble and stained glass will
not come cheap. John estimates that the building will cost
in the ballpark of three hundred thousand dollars to construct,
(34:34):
which is what in today's money.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Three hundred thousand dollars in nineteen fifteen is going to
be Hold on, let me think D nine hundred and seventy.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Five ten million dollars. Holy shit, Yeah no, it's twenty twenty.
Makes sense.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Like every time we do this, it's like, that's not
that doesn't add up from what happened last time in
nineteen fifteen.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, I'm not yelling at you, but like that's why
we hate this. It's just never do we.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Ever go up that high from stories from nineteen fifteen.
I think they've broken a barrier here.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Like I try to be logical for real, but then
it's like, just never imagine that. Our economy is not
about logic.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I don't think you know what. That's not on me. Yeah,
that's not You forgot about the great depressions coming up?
The bunch of two thousand and eight is going to
be in there. So for the next decade, John fund
raises for the Santa Claus building year round. We've got
to make a building for Santa Claus. He publishes newspaper ads,
sends out mailers which prominently feature renderings of the building.
(35:33):
So it's real, real, here's the Blueprint. Yeah for real.
He hosts ritzy over the top galas that bring the rich, wealthy,
and charitable together in the name of giving. I love
a gala. I mean real long earrings, the longest.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Gloves, tiny food on silver charring. Wow, little Keisha's take
my money.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Give it to me gala. The last galle you got
to go to.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
We went to the Ronald McDonald How's Gala, like two
years ago, and son I bought a table and had
all our like a couple of our friends at the partied.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, NICs really lovely. We're a beautiful foundation. Yeah, because
you used to work there, so like he was legit.
That's when I first met you. Guys. You're a young,
scrappy couple. What about you. The last gala, huh, I
went to one for Pedaluma Schools, but I think it
was like two years ago, yeah or more. Yeah, just
telling you about this gala because writer Alex Palmer reports
(36:31):
that in nineteen twenty four, at a Santa Claus Association
party hosted on the roof of the Waldorf Astoria, Quote,
attendees included English actress Violet Inglefield wearing jewels so extravagant
that she had to be escorted to the party in
an armored car. Damn, her diamonds went all the way
to the ground. We don't know how much money John
(36:52):
is pulling in during this period, because, of course, there's
no accounting going on at the association, and he's the
only one in charge, and he's not doing any bookkeeping.
But what we do know is there's never any real
movement on the Santa Claus building, and there won't be
for a full ten years after John makes this announcement,
not even a hint of a possible construction timeline. But
(37:15):
nobody asks too many questions. The Santa Claus Association continues
to respond to children's letters year after year. There's no
shortage of heartwarming stories about it every holiday season in
New York's papers. And John is at the center of
all of it. So he's got to have goodness in
his heart right somewhere. Yet John is steadily escalating in
(37:36):
his bad behavior. For example, he's become increasingly committed to
the United States Boy Scouts, not the Boy Scouts of
America now called Scouting Away, it's called Yes. He's now
fundraising for them, but for a fee. But to raise
this money he's been exploiting people's confusion about the United
(37:56):
States Boy Scouts and the Boy Scouts of America finally
come back to bite him when he gets taken to
court by the Boy Scouts of America and in the
process it is revealed that he's been pocketing very large
amounts of the organization's funds. This nearly wrecks John's credibility
in the public eye, but he's a very slick mover
(38:16):
and he manages to kind of fix it, mostly because
of how beloved the Santa Claus Association is. He just
like plays that up. When things get dicey for him,
he just hides behind his famous charity and he basically
just rides out any scandal. So now it's the nineteen twenties,
which is known as the Golden Age of fundraising?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Did you know that?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
When I you know, it's like, Maren, you are lying,
you are lying on paper. But I guess it was.
And it's because the economy's booming. There's new millionaires popping
up all over the place, and it's still the progressive
era where service is front and center for so many
people are giving like never before. And as the head
of one of new York City's most well known charities.
(38:58):
John Gluck knows this very well, so he starts creating
a suspiciously large number of side charities from the Santa
Claus Association. The missions of these groups are usually very
vague or weirdly specific, with names like the Defense Reports
Committee or the Serum Control of Cancer or there was
(39:19):
even something called the Window Cribs Society. Have you ever
seen the pictures of the babies in the Window Crib? Yes,
this is John. I love that. Okay. The Window Crib
Society advocated for chicken wire cages that parents could hang
outside their apartment windows so their babies could get some
fresh air.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Oh, you've seen the photos from then are just so creepy.
It's a baby fucking twelve stories up on basically like
a security gate.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Chicken wire. Yeah, like a chicken wire awning. Yeah, it's
like a cat cage nailed to a kitchen window and
the babies crawled out into it. Yeah, for fresh air,
for fresh air.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
And I promise you that's not what you're getting in
fucking New York to begin with.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Hong Kong, Hong Kong bebe. But I think that's the
craziest because I've always seen that just in kind of
like interesting facts you should know about. This was because
it really was a trend. People were doing it, but
it was all Santa Claus Society just trying to basically
launder money. Okay. Also perfect distraction. Yes, babies and chicken
(40:24):
people are just so freaked.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Out all the time you can't focus.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Okay. So these groups never do a whole lot aside
from fundraising, but to make them seem legit potential donors,
John starts to claim that they're backed by members of
New York's high society without those members' permission. Of course,
when rich socialites and business people discover they've been unknowingly
endorsing cage windows for babies, they are furious. And this
(40:50):
is when reporters and city officials finally start poking into
the world of John Gluck. But of course, what John
does when there's heat on any charities, he just shuts
it down for anything escalates and then goes on to
create a new one. And he every time pulls in
some unknown amount of cash with his fundraising, and then
of course pockets most if not all of it, but
(41:12):
also growing a list of donors, so he gets out
there and he kisses babies and cages and shakes hands
and then finds new people to give him money. It's
said by the nineteen twenties, John's master mailing list contains
roughly seventy six thousand names. Wow, pre internet. So now
it's the late twenties and a straight laced, rule loving
(41:32):
public servant named Bird S. Kohler is now the New
York City's Commissioner of Public Welfare. And this very outspoken
man who believes that charity should be tightly regulated and
heavily scrutinized.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
He is fun.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, I mean, this is like the prohibition era brings
in all these guys. I mean he's great, but who
would you rather be at a party with? No? Clearly,
John Glug is the man. I mean he's like, he's like,
let's you and me do some good and then I
will also get money.
Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Yeah's fun. He's fun. He's already a rich guy. He's
a rich guy that knows how to make rich guy
give him money, and he does it. But basically, Bird
Kohler sees how flashy and hammy and publicity hungry John
Gluck is, and he's instantly suspicious about his intentions, so
he hits the Santa Claus Association with an official audit.
Things very quickly unravel. Cohler learns that since the Santa
(42:24):
Claus Association began, John Gluck has been running the whole
thing himself with zero oversight. He has made up dozens
of employees, all listed on the payroll to give the
illusion that there's financial accountability within the organization. You can't
do that, No, you're not allowed to do that. That's
actually illegal. As a result, huge sums of money have
flowed in and out of the charity without any documentation
(42:46):
on how it was spent. So in nineteen twenty seven alone,
Cohler learns that the Santa Claus Association raised at least
one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
What was the other one? It's three hundred, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You do a million, two millions and it's all gone. Yeah,
so he In the end, Bird Kohler's audit of the
association concludes that John had embezzled virtually all of the
charity's funds, millions and millions in today's money that had
been donated not only for the Santa Claus building, but
also for the operational expenses. Of it. These findings generate
(43:25):
a tsunami of nationwide press that exposed John's schemes and
sully his reputation for good. People are outraged, and of course,
practically overnight all the social capital that he had spent
a decade cultivating is over. The Post Office meanwhile, abruptly
ends its partnership with the Santa Claus Association. Yeah, so
in nineteen twenty eight, John shutters the organization officially, even
(43:48):
though he can no longer treat it as his personal
slush fund. Now we are sadly back to square one,
needing to answer kids letters to Santa Claus. So after
the collapse of the Santa Claus Associations, all organizations step
in to help with letters to Santa. Decades later, Operation
Santa Claus replaces this system and in the coming years
(44:08):
expands into a nationwide program. So today you can visit
the United States Postal Service operations Santa dot com and
you can read children's wish lists. They're scanned and they're
shared there for you to read for yourself, and you
can answer one if you would like to. It's estimated
that the Santa Claus Association provided somewhere around a quarter
(44:31):
million gifts for New York City's children. We will never
know what good the money John embezzled could have done,
because he was getting millions in the spirit of give
somebody who doesn't have what they need for the holidays
something great. Meanwhile, John Gluck gets away with it. He's
never prosecuted for any financial crimes, which is actually often
(44:53):
attributed to the Great Depression hitting and overshadowing this entire scandal.
What we know for sure is that he winds up
leaving New York and resurfacing in Miami, where he reinvents
himself as a real estate broker, and he lives there
until the early fifties, when he dies at age seventy three.
Alex Palmer writes in his book John Gluck never heads
(45:14):
another charity, though it's unclear if this is because he
finally learned his lesson or because post depression reforms finally
put guardrails on fundraising for charity. He's like, now it's
not worth it. Yeah, And that is the story of
New York City's opportunistic Santa claus Man, John Gluck. Happy Holiday.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
So he never had to give back any of the
money he lost it, but he.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Spent it all. He spent it on himself and like
did whatever. But then like basically the market crash of
nineteen twenty nine and overnight it was like no one
had anything. Nobody was looking for the millions he stole
when people were jumping out of windows.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Totally. Wow, that's fucked up. I've never heard that before.
I haven't ether must be because it's right by the Great Depression.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, that's right. It got good. That's a fucking good
fraud star, isn't it good? Yeah, it was gonna it
was going to be a story for New York for yeah,
a live show. Yeah, good one. All right, well, thank
you job.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I'm glad we're donating to feed the children. It's fitting.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
Finally someone gives back after this gigantic ripoff. Although goad.
It's like the Santa Claus Building if it was made
in like nineteen fifteen, by now, it would be gorgeous.
They would be They would be carrying cancer in there, Yeah,
they would be doing everything all the You would have
this kind of like focused attention on goodness.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
What is it about him that made him not do that?
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Greed?
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Greed that sucks? Oh men?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Oh you men, you well that's that's where we're going
to bring you down to this holiday season. Good job, guys,
we did it. Guys. Focus on the Santa Claus Building
in your mind.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Don't be like the Santa Claus guy.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
No, no, be the doorman of the Santa Claus building
and open open the door of the Santa Claus Building
in your heart, in your heart, and welcome all of
the children in, adult children in. That's right this holiday season.
That's right. And stay sex and don't get murdered. You
thought I'd never get to it.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
Bye, Elvis, do you want to cookie?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
This has been an exactly right production.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer
is Tessa Hughes.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Our editor is Aristotle Ascevedo. This episode was mixed by
Leona Scuolacci. Our researchers are Mary mclachan and Ali Elkin.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite Murder.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Podcasts or wherever you get your.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Podcasts, or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for
My Favorite Murder. Then can subscribe God, I
Hosts And Creators
Georgia Hardstark
Karen Kilgariff
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