54 - Valet Area

Let Karen and Georgia be your weekly valet to My Favorite Murder. On this episode they cover the terrible deeds of Nathaniel Bar-Jonah and Rodney Alcala.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hi. Moments of staring at each other. I thought we
were going to say hi at the same time. I know,
but I didn't know when you were going to start.
Ready to came here?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hi? How are you?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
What the what the Welcome to my favorite murder. It's
a show where we talk at the same time.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Time, time time.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's Georgia hard Star, that's Karen kill Gareff.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
This is my favorite murder. Welcome. I'm so glad you
could make it.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Thanks for coming, Thanks for staying for at least ten minutes.
We hope we're gonna ten.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
We're going to do this for ten minutes. Just a
lot of back and forth. Yip, yeap if you're into that,
hang out. If no, bye bye, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
See you in twenty actually twenty minutes when we start
the Murderers, see.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
You in forty five minutes, when I begin to commit
to the project.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
That is my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
We're being realistic. Now, do you love your You got
a manicure?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I got a manicure today. I did need to look
at my eye.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I know, isn't it fun? You're You're gazing lovingly at
your nails. I've never seen you do that before.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Here's the thing and I just talked about this but
to you. But having I so now I work on
Guy Brandham's TV show, and on this TV show, I
get Fritz Sometimes eight thirty in the morning, I get
three grown women who stand around me doing my hair
and makeup for hours and it is so fun. I

(01:45):
love it and like people just just teasing my hair
for like forty five minutes straight as and shaping it.
So I have really good hair, doing makeup very lightly
brushing my face for an hour.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
I start to realize, like on the first day, because
this is a very collapse schedule.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's been hard. We've worked a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
So they're recording on a Sunday instead of a Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
That's right because this next week is going to be
the same and crazy. But so the first day we
went to tape, I sat down at my So it's
a it's called talk show. The game show Guy is hosting,
Guy Branham, friend of the show, expert lawyer Guy Branham.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
It's a talk show.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Uh, he's the host and I am a judge where
people come out and they get they do an interview
with Guy, and then I judge them and tell them
how they did.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
God, that sounds like a dream job, just like super fun. Yeah,
and you don't get judged. You just talk.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
They can't say Shanta, don't talk to me.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
But going through like basically the beauty a glam squad
every morning makes me realize how like the first day
after I left, Diane, who's my makeup person, handed me
a mask and she goes, you put this on tonight,
And it was basically like thing by thing where it's like, oh, yeah,
that's right. Like I go home and then just go

(03:04):
to sleep and don't worry, Like can you make our.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Lives a little easier?

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Can you not make this so that we have to
put you together like a wax? God, damn dummy. And
so then you know, like one day I realized I
have to hold up signs, I need to paint my finger.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yes, no, dude, I got it. When you're like, oh
this person, I have done the bare minimum of looking good.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yes, and now. But then once I do it, it's like, oh,
this is fun.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Didn't feel nice to take care to pamphrey yourself?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
It really does. So today I really like it.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
So today I was like, I just did my nails
last week really fast.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
I do that too.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
But so today I went and got a manicure in
Silver Lake and it was nice and.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
The lady Rose was did it really awesomely?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
So sweet that you find out the names of your.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Mind, asked me my name, and then I asked her
her name.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
It was fun when I went to leave also, but
my glam ended because this was the weekend, so I
had no makeup on, and fuck, that looked a lot
like a scumbag.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
You saw me that morning.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
I told you in the morning, you look beautiful, and well,
I can't have it. Something, I said, beautiful thing, I said,
you look so pretty, right, I think beautiful?

Speaker 3 (04:06):
And then I was like, get away from me. In
the valet area and ran away from you. I was
working ballet that the george out her little hat on
and she brought my car around.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
I told her to get away from me. Went and
got a manicure.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
As I was getting wrung up, a girl who was
getting her manicure looked up at me and goes Karen,
and I go yeah, because I was like, oh, does
she work with me?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Is it's somebody that like, I haven't talked to you
that much?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Whatever?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
And then she goes I love your podcast.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
But she was like she was getting a manicure, so
she was kind of weirdly stuck. It wasn't like we
could shake hands or say hi or anything. And I
immediately got so self conscious that I had like these
crazy nice nails, and then other than that, I really
looked like I rolled out from under a bridge.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
I was like, oh, thanks, bye, and just ran away
so quickly.

Speaker 3 (04:52):
So I just wanted to say to that girl, if
you're listening, which she might have quit at this point
because I was so not all that friendly to her. Hi,
I'm sorry didn't ask you what your name was. I'm
sorry I didn't say I sorry. I didn't have a
moment with you. I was kind of embarrassed. I'm kind
of embarrassed, and it's.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Just like, how are you feeling today? Kind of embarrassed,
kind of generally embarrassed. Yeah, but I'm working on it. Yeah,
but I feel high to her. But the thing is
too that she knows so much about you at this
point and like doesn't expect you to, like she doesn't
think you're gonna be chrissy fucking Tigan, you know what
I mean. Yeah, Like we haven't fucking positioned ourselves to
be christy fucking I mean, chrisiy Tiagan seems like a chill.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Chick, but like I look, for some reason, I can't
drop the Chrissy Teagan expectation.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
It's my problem.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Oh yeah, no one's I kind of am like, oh,
maybe I look like I kind of get that because
I'm like, I'm not wearing makeup anymore. And then I'll
see myself sometimes and be like, oh my god, I
look like I'm on my way to rehab, and like
two people like my neighborhood fucking cafe, are they like
she Okay, I have like some acne scars right now,
so it looks a little like I've been picking at
my face, you know, like, yes.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I want to be presentable. You might be presentable.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
If my mom saw me, who's a really into images everything,
she'd be like she'd be worried about me.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
My mom.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
I have a tape in my head of my mom
who used to always if you would like walk through
the kitchen, it would just be like after school one
day or like yeah, asual time, my mom would be
the one to go, oh God, put some lipstick on.
You look like a corpse. That was like her great quote,
So I have that kind of the room. I'm like,
really in the house, you need me to wear lipstick?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Lady. It's so moms. The minute she sees me, she
tells me how something I am doing that she likes
it better when I do the other way around, Like
if I have short hair, Oh, I like your hair longer,
not like you look. It's like, oh, I like you
you're shorter. Like it's just like, here's what you're You've
done that doesn't please me? Yes, And I'm like, fuck you,

(06:46):
you vote it for Trump? What do you? Here's what
you fucking mom?

Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's right. You don't get to tell me nothing anymore.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Mom's moms and dads. Do we have corners?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Oh, I have a couple of corners.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Can I tell you something? Yes about Yes, Vince and
I have this. I'm gonna share a real intimate not intimate,
but I'm an inside joke that my husband and I
have that were the only people who know what this is,
and we kind of love it and share it together.
And I'm gonna just tell a few people right now.
And every time we say any kind of corner thing,
I think of this and Vince so whenever the word
corner comes up, Vince and I say to each other

(07:24):
corner corner corner. And the reason is because we would
go to this like late night diner in Los Felis
called House of Pies. That's like the fucking best, like
old school diner. And there was this chick who was
a waitress there who was like like late night waitress.
You could tell she was on like adderon fucking like
buzzing on coffee and shit. She was really cool, but

(07:44):
she was like clearly buzzing. And every time she'd have
hot plates on her you know when you're a waitress
and you have to say behind you, behind you when
you're like behind someone on a plates so they don't
walk into you. She would come around the corner with
these hot plates and go corner corner.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Corner, corner corner.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
So you're think eating your chicken out to high or whatever,
you're just get hearing corner corner corner, and I was
fucking crack up. Someoneever we hear someone say corner, and
this is like three years ago and we're still like
corner corner corner. No, now, I just told everyone, so
let's do corner corner corner time.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Is it Corner Corner Corner Time. Well, we were at
that live show.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
We got to meet some people afterwards, and there were
two different girls who took the time to tell us
that we this podcast meant a lot to them because
they were going through a really hard time and that
they were like one. The one girl said it, I'm sorry,
I don't remember your name. The way you phrased it
was you were these great voices in my head when

(08:36):
I only had bad voices in my head, and it
was so touching to me. But it also was the
same exact thing that a different girl said, and I
was like, I said to her, just so you know,
that's just what someone else said.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
I don't remember this.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, that's the first girl said, And I was like,
someone else just said that, and then she was like,
oh where. I was like I wanted to go, like
go over there and talk to her, but that's weird,
but no.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, it was just very A.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
It was very touching that we could help somebody that
would be in that position. But B if you are
in that position and you have those feelings, get help.
Figure out a way to find a therapist. Go online,
look it up. It's there's you know, like it's good
to get help for yourself, and it's good to solve
those problems.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
They're solvable problems. We've both been there.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
And it's good to have friends too. And I have
to say the Facebook group is they those people are
everyone's becoming friends and everyone will talk to you and
everyone will help you with something. And it's like a
really good resource for people who who listen to this
because they need help. Yeah, I think, I mean I
completely also get help from a professional, but it is
a really cool like I think a lot of people

(09:45):
are making friends off of it.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, it seems like it.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, and we relate because and we talk about this
all the time. Like there are lots of podcasts I
listen to that when I listen to them, like it's
my friends who have their own podcast, or it's somebody else,
you know whatever that I love. But like I start
listening to it, and I feel better. I feel like
I'm with people. I Like, I feel like I'm hanging out,
Like my loneliness goes away, my anxiety goes away, and

(10:11):
so we get it.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Like not laughing at you, I'm laughing at this meme
I saw that says on the top what I'm like
when I listen to podcasts, and it's this to say
that it's this billboard of these three cute girls like
eating ice cream, and then there's this dude sitting next
to the billboard like laughing along with them and eating
a bowl of ice cream. And it's like me too.
It's like how you listen to podcasts, which I fucking

(10:34):
I'm the same.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Way completely, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it gets you through.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
It's nice.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
So I think we have to We have a couple
of live shows coming up that aren't sold out, so
we have to shout them out to people to get
the tickets. Right, hold on, Stephen, can you wait on this? Okay,
So here's some new information on our live shows. So
on February third, that's a Friday, these tickets will go

(10:59):
on on sale. So, okay, we're doing an extra Portland
show because you guys, they got sold out so quickly
and people got pissed off. So Sunday, the twenty sixth
of March at Revolution Hall, there's going to be an
added show. So if so, that is going to be
on sale on the what did I say tomorrow on

(11:23):
the third of February. That's a Friday. I think that
should be tomorrow, so that's Portland. No, that's next Friday.
That's today, okay, isn't it? Yes, tomorrow is today the
twenty to its twenty seventh, so yesday's Today's the twenty ninth.
So this is coming Friday. So when this episode drops
some what you the day after? Thank you, Steven.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
So it's tomorrow, yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
And then Boston is adding a late show at the
wilbur on March third. It's the same show, same day
as a regular show, but we're having a later night
show and as well. And then Milwaukee is moving to
a larger venue. So it wasn't the paps which we
sold out, I guess. So it's now moving to the Riverside.
But all the tickets that you bought from the paps

(12:06):
will be.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
You will get the same or better seats at the
new place.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
But there's going to be more tickets on sale, right.
That will be on February third at noon noon local time.
So that was corner corner. That was a show corner
Life show corner corner corner.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Now we have lor Kilgaroff Corner.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
That's Sister Sister, Sister corner.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
So my sister goes on the Facebook page and tells
me stories that she loves and she has great taste,
so this one is especially awesome. And it's Kristin Michelle
McClure's story that she posts on the Facebook page, and
it's fucking crazy. So she says her boyfriend was six.
So she drove up to mccallister's in Addison, Texas to

(12:46):
pick up some food and iced tea for dinner. And
the parking lot was pretty dark and the only people
there that late were the staff and one woman who
left shortly after she got there. And when she got
her order, she walked outside to see the woman from
before smoking a cigarette, and suddenly she comes over to me.
I switched it now it's first person. Suddenly she comes

(13:07):
over to me and says, Hi, Oh my.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
God, it's so good to see you. How have you been?

Speaker 3 (13:11):
And I'm sure I looked very confused as I responded,
I'm sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else.
I don't think I know you, and her voice got
quiet and she said, pretend like you do. There's a
man hiding behind your car. Fucking chills you, guys. I'm
a very observant and spatially aware person. But I never
would have known he was there if it wasn't for

(13:33):
this amazing lady. So I let her walk me to
my car, and as I do, she explains that she
saw him lurking as she was leaving and got a
bad feeling, so she decided to wait for me.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
What an angel, baby.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
That is so incredibly nice and we really need to
be doing that for each other. Yes, sure enough, we
get to my car and a man in a hoodie
stands up from behind my passenger rear side and nonchalantly
walks into the dumpster alley, dumpster.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
We're fucking lurkers, lurk uh.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
So as we're saying goodbye, she smiled and said, stay sexy,
don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
What the fuck are the chances.

Speaker 3 (14:12):
A fellow murderino probably saved me from being robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, murdered,
god knows what. And I'm so thankful for her. I
didn't catch her name, but if you're listening, but if
you're reading this, thank you. Let's listen to MFM, drink
wine and catch and watch murder documentaries sometime. So then
there's an update from Cheney Coles with this girl.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Oly shit, it's.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Cheney Coles, Kristin, Michelle McClure, and Emily Burke, and Cheney
Coles is saying so. A lot of you probably saw
Kristen's post yesterday about how a fellow Murderino saved her
when a hooded man was hiding behind her car at McAllister's.
If you didn't scroll down, it's a crazy story. I
live in Dallas, so I commented that I wanted to
be her friend since we're practically neighbors. A few chats

(14:58):
via Messenger and Facebook friendship later, she and I and
my Murderino best friend Emily met for drinks last night
and discussed all kinds of murders. The tables around us
thought we were weird, but we had a great time.
This podcast and this group makes me so happy. Murderito's
met for drinks last night. Oh oh, there's no overlap. Sorry,

(15:19):
Murderino's Unite is.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
The last one.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Ye When my sister sent me that, I started crying
and I was like, that's the cool that idea right there,
of somebody noticing something that might be bad and taking
the time to look out for another person, and the
idea that the reason they might do that is because
they were emboldened by the shit that you and I
say it.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Myrapist is trying to make me cry more, and I'm
gonna try to do it because I really want to,
but there's something inside of me that won't let me
do it. But stop it, yes, keep going. I'm so
proud of us. I left therapy the other day and
just texted you, I'm really proud of us. You did
That's right, Okay, I'm proud of us too. I want
to cry, and well sometime I do it.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Now you do it.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
I mean Jesus Christ dead, and you were like sitting
there like I've gotta cry on this pod.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
I already did it today, so that's I got it
out of the way.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
I did it at lunch. It's just a cool thing.
It's like, you know, that's the point, wonderful. That's I'm
just proud of I'm proud of us. Good job, everybody,
good job you guys.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
We fucking did it. We're staying sexy, we're not getting murdered.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
We're making friends, extending yourself to people who might be
in a bad place. That's kind of like, that's the
that's what we're looking for.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
These days and we're fucking like we're putting those fucking
dumpstered alley lurkers in their place of like, no, you
can't fucking you can't do this, dude, No.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Or you know, maybe that guy was peeing.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Either way, that girl got in her car and got
home safe.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
And tears can attack people too, you know, maybe he
was doing both, maybe had a pee and it could
have been a P attack, a P attack. Oh, this
has been my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
That was gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
Oh my phone just told me Robert Durst hearings are
is it tomorrow? It's it's oh the February fifteenth. Sorry,
it came up as an alert just now. That's really weird.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Random, real quick merch corner, Corner Corner, my favorite murder
shirts dot com and we have new hats. We have
hats now caps and beanies. And I guess people like hats.
I like never post anything that I wouldn't wear, so
I'm like, all right, like.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
A hat, baseball hats, they're like ski hats or whatever.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, they're actually really cool.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, the same murder right now on them and stuff?
All right, good job. Hey, should we talk about how
many minutes was that we told people? Ten minutes? What
the fuck? Sorry? How many minutes? Oh my god? Sorry,
just started talking to me without me pressing anything. I

(17:51):
think my place is my new place is haunted. Yes,
me too.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
I think you're first this week.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay, so let's let's start. What was that show called
that you recently told me, the New Detectives.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
I'm not telling you any more shows because.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
They keep getting Anaz's christ.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Okay, So no, because you're like, I fucking hate that show.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
No what I know? I do that about a lot
of things. All right, So this is a story from
that show, but it's no what Oh.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
You watched it and got the story from it.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
I had a story and then realized when looking at
up that they had covered the story on that show.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Got it?

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Not New Detectives, real detective, Real Detectives, And so there
was so much more to the story. So I was like, Okay,
I'm still going to do this, but I'm gonna give
a shout out to the show Karen likes at the
same time. So I'm not being negative, all right, Okay,
not fucking being negative, all right. So in Worcester, Massachusetts
in nineteen sixty four, a kid named Nathaniel barr Jonah

(18:56):
is seven years old. He tells a five year old
neighbor that he had gotten Luigi board, and she follows
him into his basement to play with it. He attempts
to strangle the five year old girl. The seven year
old attempts to strangle the five year old girl, she screams.
His own mother comes down and rescues her. So like
his mom knows sums up already, you know what I mean?

(19:19):
So this fucking seven year old cuts us. Six years later,
in nineteen seventy, he's thirteen years old. He lures another neighbor,
a six year old boy, to a nearby hill, saying
that he wants to go sledding with him, and of
course Ela didn't go sledding. He ends up sexually assaulting
the kid, and then in March nineteen seventy five, seventeen

(19:41):
year old Nathaniel barjonatt he's doing the fucking classic impersonation officer.
A police officer abducks an eight year old kid named
Richard O'Connor who's on his way to school, sexually assaults
and strangles him. A neighbor saw this happening and notifies
the police. They a car matching the description in a

(20:02):
parking lot. They get him out of the car, and
the kid is found in the car, near death but alive.
So Nathaniel is arrested, charged and convicted, but he receives
you ready for this, a year of probation for this crime.

(20:24):
I how yeah, because it's nineteen seventy But okay, probation.
The kid's not dead.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
He must have had some insane lawyer or some kind
of Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
No, I think that happened all that. Well, it gets worse. Okay,
that always gets worse. So a few days before he
graduates from high school, he's again impersonating a police officer
and he abducts a nine year old girl who he
assaults savagely in his car and then later throws her
from the car into a sidewalk. She's still alive, and
a witness gets his license plate, which leads to his arrest.

(20:58):
And this assault never gets back to his probation officer,
and so he's released from parole from the earlier assault
in nineteen seventy six, and so when his probationary period
is over, he receives a letter thanking him for his cooperation,

(21:18):
so he never gets no sorry what his parole ends.
In seventy six, they catch him and I don't know
if he ever got charged with anything after they found
the kid after he threw her out of her car,
but the parole officer never finds. A probation officer never
finds out about it, so nothing is added to that's fun.

(21:41):
So in September nineteen seventy seven, he's claiming to be
an undercover FBI agent and he convinces two boys to
get into his car. He goes to a secluded area
with them and he handcuffs them and assaults them, and
he thought he had killed one of the boys, so
he took the other one still alive, his trunk and
drove off. But the kid he thought was dead was

(22:02):
a not dead. He regains consciousness and fucking finds help
and the boy who was kidnapped is found still alive
in Nathaniel's trunk. So he's caught convicted of attempted murder
and gets the maximum sentence of eighteen to twenty years
in prison, So fucking finally he's being incarcerated. So while
he's incarcerated, he tells a psychologist there about his fantasies

(22:29):
of murder, dissection and cannibalism. It's a psychiatrist, and she
that psychiatrist decides to commit him to the Bridgewater State
Hospital for the Sexual Predators, which I think means that
you don't have a release date. I think they can
keep you indefinitely. I could be wrong, Guy Brenham, please
let me know. So he stays in the hospital from

(22:50):
seventy nine to ninety one. When there's a hearing before
Superior Court Judge Walter E. Steele, who needs to be
fucking named to psycho psychiatrists say that Nathaniel Barjona is
a danger to society and he should not be let out.
Two of them said he isn't. So we got tuned two.
The judge sides with the I said. The judge sided

(23:11):
with the stupid ones and said that he thought that
Nathaniel Barjona would not commit the crime again and decided
that the state had failed to prove he was dangerous.
So this dude, fucking Superior Court Judge Walter E. Steele
lets bar Jonah out.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Does his family have money? He must have amazing lawyers.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I don't think it was that difficult then though, you
know what I mean, there's no Megan's Law, there's none
of this shit where it like where they think predators
and sexual abusers are even important enough to let their
next door neighbor who has children know that they're there,
Like it's not a priority.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, but it's I mean, these are attacks, they're physical attacks.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
It just be like he did little girl, throws her
out of a car and thanks for thanks for doing
such a great job in your parole.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Like that doesn't even track.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
No, it doesn't. And it's the same we're talking with
guy Brennan, where it's like, well, his intent was to
kill these people, why isn't he kept in prison in
the same amount of time that someone who had actually
killed them are And it's just because he got lucky
for you know, he just kept getting lucky.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
I mean, that's beyond lucky where he's not getting arrested
for it. Yeah, like he's not even.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
I think it's a fucked up justice system at the time.
I think that's all it is. So he leaves the
institution and he promises to not go back to Massachusetts,
that instead he'll go to Montana. But Megan's Law is
still being debated. It's not it's not enacted yet, which

(24:49):
you know, as everyone knows. Megan's Law is that you
if you're a sexual offender, you have to notify everyone
in the community and they're allowed to know where you
live and all this so so okay. So he has
weekly garage sales selling Star Wars memorabilia and stuffed animals
that attracts many local children. And let's see, within a

(25:15):
week he commits another attack on a child, and then
no one in Montana's notified of his past crimes at all.
So on February sixth, nineteen ninety six, ten year old
Zachary Ramsey is on his way to school at about
seven thirty am. He takes his usual school route through

(25:36):
the alleyway. And remember those fucking shortcuts he used to
take to school, Like the shortcuts I used to take
as a kid. The amount of places I could have
been murdered in is just more than I couldn't have
been murdered in, you know what I mean, Like fucking
alleyways and like back alleys and fucking what are those called?
Like the dry river beds and just these horrible places,

(26:02):
and a family who lives in along the alleyway reports
seeing him, but also sees an off white four door
car that nearly runs him over. Another witness who lived
in the area sees him distressed, with an obese adult
male following him a few feet behind at about seven
forty five. Zach then disappears, which is another thing of fucking.

(26:24):
If you see something, fucking say something. If you see
a little kid upset with a with an adult and
something doesn't look right, you can be rude and be like,
is everything okay here? You know what I mean. You're
not going to get in trouble for it. Let's see okay.
So the police investigate Zach Ramsey's kidnapping, and it turns

(26:48):
out that Nathaniel Barjonah, who was a known sex offender
in the area though there were a lot of them,
has access to his mom's off white four door Toyota
Corolla the day that Zach goes missing, and his his
mother was out of town for a funeral and so
he had the house to himself, and he also didn't
work that day, so he stays away from the police

(27:08):
until ninety nine, when he's arrested near an elementary school
in Great Falls, Montana. He's dressed as a policeman. He's
carrying a stun gun and pepper spray and is like
fucking targeting one of the kids there. And they search
his apartment and they find a list of boys' names,
including previous victims that he had actually had and the
name Zachary Ramsey, the last word of which was dyed

(27:30):
because he had done these crazy encryptions. And so when
the FBI finally took a part everything, they found all
of these names. There's dozens of newspaper clippings found in
his apartments following the zach Ramsey case, and a former
roommate said that he found clothes in his apartments which
matched Zachary Ramsey's clothes that he was wearing the day

(27:51):
he disappeared, and bloody gloves. So they also found encryptied
menus referring to cannibalizing children, and there were actual I
don't want to I don't know if you want to
hear them, but like names of of meals that were
like puns on children being the fucking on the venue.

(28:14):
It's pretty fuck. It's like it's almost it's too like
it takes too light. I don't like it. But it's gross.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Because he thinks he's being like funny. Yeah, it's just
a disgusting sense.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, it's not. It's not amusing in any way. It's
fucked up. And it's also said that he possibly cut
up and serves human meat of his victims to his
neighbors at barbecues and cookouts and stews and Hamburger's. And
there was one woman his neighbor who said, this tastes
really weird. What is this And he said, oh, it's

(28:47):
a deer I found and I cut it up myself.
And she remembers, oh, it tasting weird. I mean, can
you have barbecues?

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Fucking imagine the eating disorder you would have if you
were that neighbor.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Can you imagine he'd be van for the rest of
your Oh my god, that's never you meet in.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
I know, it's really horrible.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
I know, okay. And they also find a list of
twenty two names, many which were past victims known victims,
but several have never been accounted for. And they also
dug up the yard and found twenty one bone fragments
of a yet to be identified boy estimated between eight
and thirteen, and it's not Zach Ramsey's bones, Okay. So

(29:33):
in July two thousand, he's charged with Zach Ramsey's murder
and for kidnapping and sexually assaulting three other boys who
lived above him in an apartment complex, who he would babysit.
Who is the mom would just leave him, leave the
kids with him, even though she was like, yeah, one
of them started acting real weird after I'd let him babysit,
and it's like, I'm in you. So, but the charges

(29:56):
involving Zach Ramsey's murder are dropped because the Zach's mom
refused to believe that he was dead and so would
testify that Barjona or Nathaniel Barjona never killed her son.
She was going to testify to that. But he's sentenced
for the other charges to one hundred and thirty years
in prison. It's for sexually assaulting one kid and torturing another.

(30:19):
And on April thirteen, two thousand and eight, Nathaniel Barjona
is found dead in his prison cell. It's his death
is either a heart attack or a brain clot. I
can't really a lot of different, you know articles, And
then eventually a judge declar's Zach Ramsey legally dead in
twenty eleven, despite his mom's still objecting to that. How

(30:40):
fucked up is that it's super fucked up. It's like
one of those murders. It's like one of those articles
that's like ten serial killers you've never fucking or ten
monsters you've never heard of, and like, why are you know,
why are these other people heard of? And he's not.
He's just as huge as a fucking monster.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Well, that's the real detectives that I That was the
first one I saw with the was like crying. It
was crazy, and he chased that guy forever and he
literally chased he tracked him down. And by the time
somebody said, oh, well that like he kept hearing oh

(31:17):
they went on the shortcut.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
So he walked the shortcut.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Himself finally, like it was like beat cops were telling
him the information, So he finally himself walked a shortcut,
and when he came up the alley, bar Jonas was
standing at the top of the alley dressed like a
security guard across the street from the grammar school, and
the guy in the show is like cut you know,

(31:41):
like and that's when I knew I had my guy
and the most horrible part, like I looked into that
too of like, oh, would this be a good one
to do there? The details are so fucking disturbing.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
They're really dark.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
It's awful.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
It's just like, yeah, it's that kind of thing where
it's like, oh, that's interesting. I feel like maybe that's
a reason why it's he's one that you don't hear
that much about. It's because it's like insanely disgusting and awful,
and he did it to a bunch of kids.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Well, what's so surprising to me about this story? And
one of the reasons I think it's important to talk
about is because zach Ramsay was taking these shortcuts in
nineteen ninety six. Like it wasn't the eighties or even
the early nineties, which is when I was doing those things.
It seems like more recent. And I feel like he
was alone early in the morning, and I know it
seems like a well traveled place and everyone's going to school,

(32:31):
but you can't. You can't do those things.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
I don't think anyone does anymore.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
And especially because people saw that happening and were like
this is weird, and like went on with their day.
It's just so troubling.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Well, and also that guy dressed he did, I mean
he was like a real he knew what he was doing. Yeah,
Like dressing like a security guard, that thing that people
fall for all the time where it's like, oh it's
a cop, it's like security guard. It's the person standing
outside the school that's dressed like an official. Must be
a good person. And to see like, yeah, it's yeah,

(33:03):
it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
And also that he did it.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
I mean the idea that like his first thing was
when he was seven years old.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
I couldn't find any information about his childhood and how
you know, it could have not been fucked up at all.
It could just be fucking crazy, but there had to
be something going on that he would try to strangle
a five year old and he was seven.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, it makes you think of Mary Bell.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, totally just an outright evil kid.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
But also what's happened.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
I mean Mary Bell was a total victim as a
very young child, and that affects.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
You, and I wonder what could have happened, Like his
mom found him strangling a little girl, you know, what
could have been done to help him at that age?

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah, And clearly nothing was Yeah, yeah, because it's so intense. Yeah,
but also the really creepy thing is like seven. It's
like the movie seven where he had all these notebooks
and tons and tons of notebooks that they recovered.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, that was he obsessively wrote about. I mean he
was Yeah, he was insanely crazy.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
It's like he knew that if he did get caught,
he wanted there to be as much information as possible
so he'd be talked about. Yeah, and then I did it.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
And if you watch that episode of Real Detectives, the
real detective that that solves that case, who talks about it,
like at one point is crying on camera like he
is so clearly. It's it's one of those things where
that's the case of a lifetime and.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Horror so horrible. Yeah, yep, horrifying. Yeah, you want to go,
you mean leave right now? Mine is very well known
this week.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Uh, it's Rodney Alcala, the Dating game killer.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
This one I've.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Seen, like, I've seen the forensic files of this guy.
I have seen like a twenty twenty, like almost everything
on Discovery I d there's been every version of one
of those shows they have featured this guy.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Because it's the dating game thing is such a fucking
that's what did it for his fame.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, it's so insane.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
But there was one of those shows that kind of
reverse engineered where they followed the victim.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
And now I don't remember the show.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
I don't remember which victim it is because he has
so very many, but it's that thing where basically this
girl goes missing and her family's trying to find her.
Family's trying to find her, and then eventually this cash
of photographs because Rodney Alcohola is a photographer, and when
he's finally arrested and they start going through thousands and

(35:54):
thousands of photographs, they find a picture of her and
they finally realize I think it was the hiker. She
was a hiker and she was like a real outdoors woman.
And then they find a picture among all these really
disturbing pictures and they.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Can't identify all, Like there's so many of those photos
are like tons the missing.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Or the cold cases. They say they're still online. Okay,
so here's the basic story and we'll start it here.
In nineteen seventy eight, on the popular TV show The
Dating Game, host Jim Lang introduced Rodney Alcala as Bachelor
number one is a successful photographer who got his start
when his father found him in the dark room at
age thirteen, fully developed. What well, that's the show. Have

(36:36):
you ever seen yow? But what so it's like sexual.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Innuendo, which when you're not of.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
You're dad most gm in the fucking dark room.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
No, they know, no.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
But basically it's basically like the fun sexual innuendo when
you're not a serial rapist and killer is fun, but
when you are is so horrifying. And the rest of
that is between takes. You might find him skydiving or motorcycling.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
We're murdering.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
Actor Jed Mills, who was Bachelor number two on the
show and competed against al Caholla, described him as a
very strange guy with very bizarre opinions. And the funny
thing is the bachelorette, Cheryl Bradshaw, chose alcohola he won
the dating game, but when she met him, she refused
to go out with him because she found him so creepy.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Oh my god, I want to talk to her.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
She was right to find him creepy because he had
already raped an eight year old girl and murdered four
women when he was on.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
That show poor Women already for women, and then he's like,
I'm gonna go on TV in hockey.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
So he was basically mid killing spree that had started,
they believe in well, he raped the eight year old
girl in nineteen sixty eight and then the killing began
soon after, and he's in the middle of all that, goes.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
On a game show.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
So yeah, he's completely out of his goddamn mind and
kind of like Luke Magnotty, Like it's that thing of
like I want to be famous.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
I want everyone to see me, like you can't catch me.

Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, I'm smart. I'm smarter than everybody. He did have
one hundred and sixty IQ, so he kind of was
smarter than everybody in a way. So he committed his
first known crime in nineteen sixty eight. A motorist in
Los Angeles called the police after watching him lure an
eight year old girl named Tally Shapiro into his Hollywood apartment.

(38:32):
The girl was found alive, raped and beaten with a
steel bar, but Alcohola had already fled, so to evade
the resulting arrest warrant, he left the state and he
enrolled in NYU Film School under the name John Berger,
where he studied under Roman Polanski. Oh convenient, Oh, then

(38:55):
he obtained In nineteen seventy one, he got a counseling
job in New Hampshire Arts camp for children using a
different alias, John Berger. But in June of nineteen seventy one,
Cornelia Crilly, a twenty three year old trans TWA flight attendant,

(39:16):
was found raped and strangled in her Manhattan apartment. That
Cornelia's murder would remain unsolved.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
For forty years.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Holy shit.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
So she was one of the ones that when they
found the pictures they started putting it up all together.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Like this person was missing or murdered, we don't know.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
Oh yeah, god, so so now alcohol is on the UH.
In nineteen seventy one, he goes on the ten most
Wanted Fugitives list and a few months later, two children
who were at this arts camp that he got the
job at, they notice his photo on an FBI poster
at the post office and they finger him some kids.

(39:54):
So he's extradited to California. But by then that eight
year old girl that he had attacked, her parents had
relocated the entire family to Mexico and they weren't coming back. Yeah,
so they were unable to convict him of rape and
attempted murder, so the prosecutors were forced to permit him

(40:14):
to plead.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
To a lesser charge.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Of assault.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
So he's paroled after thirty four months and assault. Yeah,
he basically if it's the same thing, if he demonstrated
evidence of rehabilitation, he got out early, seen.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Nice for thirty four months, and you can get out
whenever the fuck you want.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Right, So two months after his release, he's rearrested after
assaulting a thirteen year old girl who he had offered
a ride to school and she thought she was just
getting a ride to school. And again he's paroled after
serving two years of an indeterminate sentence. So after that
release from prison, a la parole officer takes the unusual

(41:02):
step of permitting this repeat offender and known flight risk
to travel to New York City. Now irritating, but if
he has one hundred and sixty IQ and he's this
level psychopath, he's probably incredibly charming and incredibly kills Yeah, totally.
So he's he's you know, he just sucks. He makes

(41:26):
it work. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, a lot of people
just aren't aren't capable of handling this level.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
This is like it's super villain's.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
It's savvy as fuck, and even a person who's of
normal intelligence don't understand the like the nuances of manipulation.
Probably right.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Have you seen the show Good Behavior with the girl
who's the who's Mary from Downton Abbey.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
No, it's really good love.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
When we do TV show recommendation.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
It's well and also so in it, she's like a
con woman and she does these things like she started
off being common because she was addicted to drugs, but
now she's doing it just to get money, and like.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
You watch it, it's really good.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
But she does these things and it's you see how
easy it would be to fall for it, because like
she'll go in and she'll she has a really nice
outfit on and she looks like she has a lot
of money and she's like a high end resort and
then she's like shopping for jewelry.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
So she'll be like, oh, can I see that there?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
My husband wants My husband said I could get one thing,
and so I'm gonna pick it. And so while the
guy she's shopping and chatting and giggling and they're drinking
champagne and then she's making the guy go get her
things away from the counter, and while he's gone, she's
just loading her purse with the jewelry she's trying on.
But she's doing these switch arounds, so she's like never

(42:44):
you know what I mean, It's all very believable, and
then she walks out. He's not going to know anything
is gone until way later, and it's that's what it
makes me think of.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Or did she see the movie Paper Moon. It's one
of my favorite movies in.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
The world with the O'Neill family, right, and.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
They do that and it's they're grifters, and it's just
one of my absolute favorite movies. And you would never
fucking know what that's failing. It's so good.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Well, that's because you have to be good to get
away with it. Yeah, And that's how you're good.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Casual. He has to be casual about it.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
And you have to be like friendly and kind of
charming and alluring.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
So people are like, oh, no, it would never be
her the pretty Yeah, they're probably good looking.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Like I get nervous that people think I'm shoplifting even
when I have no intention and I'm never going to shoplift.
It's I'm still like, I'm not tough a fig, So
don't have to be pretty.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Fucking you have to be like she seely but also
like super charming. Yeah, so clearly that's this guy. So
he convinces his parole officer to let him go to
New York and while he's there, a week after he
gets to Manhattan, he kills Ellen Jane Hover, who is
twenty three and the daughter of the owner of CEO's,
which is a Hollywood night club.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
She was the.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Goddaughter of Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Junior. She was
like an heiress. She had a lot of money, and
her remains were found buried on the grounds of the
rock Estelle, the Rockefeller estate in Westchester County.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
How did he even get in there?

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Well, I.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Have no idea.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
He probably went to like a club and she was there,
and he's you see pictures of him, he's super creepy.
Now you see pictures of him in Jealmy is like
really long, like salt and pepper, creepy.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Curly hair, Ramen, dry Ramen.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
But you know, back then it was like the late
seventies and it was that kind of looking for mister
goodbar era of like pickup clubs and everyone was like
post hippie, you know, feeling it era.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
But he also did the thing where he was a photographer.
He was playing like the artist side for a little while.
He worked at the La Times as a type setter,
and he was at one point interviewed by the members
of the Hillside Strangler task Force as part of their
investigation when they were interviewing known sex offenders. He was

(45:04):
ruled out as the Hillside Strangler, but he got arrested
and served a brief sentence from marijuana possession, so they
got him for that, thank god. But he also during
this time, he convinced a bunch of young men and
women that he was a professional fashion photographer and photographed

(45:24):
them for his portfolio. And he showed that portfolio to
his coworkers at the LA Times, and there were people
who are quoted as saying they should I thought it
was weird, but I didn't, you know, I didn't know
because he said he was like a fashion photographer, and
so I just remember there was a bunch of naked

(45:47):
girls and he would show it to people like this
is my this is my portfolio.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Creepy it's so fucking creepy.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
So he's totally flaunting it, and of course everyone's just like, oh,
I guess that's high fashion photography. So in nineteen seventy nine,
he knocks, he knocks unconscious and rapes fifteen year old
Monique Hoyt as she's posing for him for one.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Of those shoots.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
And then he goes on the Dating Game, which was
also in I believe nineteen seventy nine around that same time,
and they think that because or he was on the
Dating Game in nineteen seventy eight, so they think because
of that rejection of the girl on the Dating Game

(46:40):
being like, there's no fucking way I'm going out with
that guy. Because right after that, a twelve year old
girl from Huntington Beach named Robin Samsoe disappeared on her
way between the beach and ballet class. It was June twenty,
nineteen seventy nine when this happened. Twelve days later, her
deep composing body was found in the Los Angeles foothills.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
I know I did. I did something like that, A
guy saying I'm a photographer when I was like seventeen,
not like eighteen, and you did what I went and
took the photos with him in the fucking Santa Monica Mountains.
Holy shit, there. I've never told anyone this. There's this
guy should have killed.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Me, but he just took pictures of you and drove
you home.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah. He was a regular at this restaurant I was
working at and was like he came in all the
time and he's like, I'm a photographer. I thought to
take photos of you, and I'm like okay. And we
went up to Santa Monica Hills and that was when
I was like, oh shit, I'm alone with this guy
in the fucking forest in the fucking hills overlooking the ocean,
and like there was he was so nice at the restaurant,

(47:45):
and the minute his eye went to the camera lens,
he looked fucking evel. I remember thinking, you need to
fucking this is not okay. And so I kept asking
about his mom and he get to about his mother
and it was almost like I was I kind of
knew something was not right and I needed to talk
to him a lot. And then we just went home.

(48:06):
But my heart was racing the whole time, and I
don't know what happened to him, and I kind of
just I think I quit soon after that. It was
just that I should have been dead. That's insane, I know,
And I'm so embarrassed of that I don't tell people that.
But it reminds me so much of the story.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Well, also because there's a there's another guy that's on
like I've seen like three different you know, ID Discovery
things about the guy that he would approach women in
malls and say that he was a photographer, that he
was casting director, right, he wanted to take their picture
because he was casting for the latest was it Batman,

(48:43):
I don't know, or some like the latest big movie.
And they would go meet him and then they would disappear.
And they were meeting him at.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Houses that were for sale.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Oh I didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
Yeah, So he was going in and basically meeting them
an empty like houses that he knew that the real
estate agent like was shown. He would go have it
shown to him, have to meet them there and then
attack them there. And he had killed a couple of
girls and then one girl got away and that's how
he got caught.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
So it's this exact same thing.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
And I mean, as I don't want to say, it
feels so stupid. But I was like eighteen, and you're like,
I was new to LA and I was so flattered
that someone wanted to take my photo and it was
the nineties and I didn't understand, and I thought I
knew this person. I would he's so nice all the time.
And worse, So when I say fuck politeness, it's because
I've done shit that have probably been really like unsafe,

(49:35):
and it's just I want to cry thinking about it.
I feel so fucking stupid ra having done that.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Yeah, but that's the whole manipulation is that they're playing
on like we're then we're supposed to be embarrassed that
we had, you know, the pride. Oh who are we
to think that we'd have our picture taken? When actually
that's that's the play. That's the whole thing. Is how
they get you is like, of course you're flattered, and
then you have a little ego stroke and oh my god,

(50:00):
maybe I am a model and it's all those things
that then it's the shame of that that's supposed to
like keep you quiet, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
And thought that shit, it's like it's that's they're doing.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
That's what they're.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Doing to you, any human being that gets that kind
of special attention is going to go, oh my god, yeah,
I want that special attention.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
That's what we all want.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
Yeah, that's everybody wants to be told that they're pretty
and want, you know, have their picture taken, and that's
it's the easiest way to manipulate people.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
And I just remember the moment it took a turn
and I got scared and realized something was not right.
Thank fucking god, nothing happened.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Yeah, sorry, anyway, So Robin SAMSO's friends told the police
that a stranger had approached them at the beach asking
to take their pictures, and they circulate a sketch of
the photographer Al call.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
His parole officer.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Recognizes him in this sketch, and then they search his
house in Monterey Park and they find a rental receipt
for a storage locker in Seattle. So then they go
into that storage locker and they find a pair of
Robin Samson's earrings. So he's basically killing people taking the

(51:16):
why don't I ever remember the word for it, Yeah,
the trophy, but then he's keeping it like in a
different state. So he's arrested in nineteen seventy nine, held
without bail. He's tried, convicted, and sentenced to death for
Robin SAMSO's murder, but the verdict is overturned because jurors
had been improperly informed of his prior sex crimes. So

(51:41):
then in nineteen eighty six, seven years later, they retry
him for the same It's the identical trial except for
omission of the prior record, and he's convicted again and
sentenced to death again. And the Ninth Circuit Court of
Appeals panel nulla the second conviction. Why in part because

(52:04):
a witness was not allowed who was not allowed No, sorry,
a witness was not allowed to support Alcohola's contention that
the park ranger who found Samsu's body had been quote
hypnotized by police investigators, so there was somebody that wanted
to Alcohola said, this park ranger was hypnotized by the police.

(52:24):
That's why he's saying this happened. He had a friend
who was going to back them up, and they were like, no,
your friend doesn't get to say that. And then they
find once they find that out there, like the whole.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Thing has to go. So they keep getting it like on.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
These weird little details, all right, and this goes I
mean he's.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
In prison the whole time though, right he is.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, he's held without bail.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
I'm not sure if you ask me details about this,
I'm not going to be able to tell you.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
I threw this together so quickly. But this is the
kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
You can look up his name and watch one thousand
shows about him because he's he Basically they say he's
like because of these pictures and the cold cases that
they believe are associated with these pictures. He's only he
only goes to jail for for murders, but they think
he's responsible for over one hundred. They just can't prove it.

(53:23):
Over one hundred worst. He's one of the worst serial
killers ever. And he's still alive and in jail.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Doesn't he keep appealing. I keep seeing him in I
keep seeing him getting older and older, and like news photos,
I make that.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
Crazy hair, Well he does. He has all these and
it's crazy because he's again one of those geniuses that's
like at one point he represents himself and then cross
examines himself and is talking in a deep voice as
one person and then his own voice and the other
like it's that kind of total insanity thing that you

(54:04):
you know, it's what that's Ted Bundy, he represented himself.
They all kind of think like it's they just think
they're invincible and that they're the smartest people in the world.
But essentially, in two thousand and three, Orange County investigators
they learned alcohol's DNA had matched semen left at the
rape murder scenes of two women in Los Angeles, and
that's when they start linking cold case DNA to this guy,

(54:29):
and it led to his indictment for the murders of
four additional women. Jill Barcom, who is eighteen, a New
York runaway who has found rolled up like a ball
in a Los Angeles ravine in nineteen seventy seven. They
thought she was a victim of the Hillside stranglers. Georgia
Wicksted twenty seven, who was bludgeoned in her Malibu apartment
in nineteen seventy seven, which is super weird because Malibu

(54:53):
is so fucking tony and high end, and this is
that thing of like like that the assister Ciro's heiress,
who he clearly was able to like be in and
out of very tony, high end places, and with those
kind of.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
People, you don't break into a like high end Malibu location.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
No, you talk your way in like I feel weird
of the Starbucks in Malibu.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I just feel like you don't.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Belong totally, and they know it.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Charlotte Lamb was thirty one, she was raped and strangled
in the laundry room of her Elsa Gundo apartment complex
in nineteen seventy eight. And Jill Parento, who was twenty one,
who was killed in her Burbank apartment in nineteen seventy nine.
And all of these bodies were found posed in carefully
chosen positions, which I think then they eventually led to

(55:43):
understanding that he was posing them and taking pictures of them.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Oh my good.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
And they found another pair of earrings in the Seattle
storage locker that matched Charlotte Lamb's DNA, so they're kind
of it all starts hooking back over and over. So
eventually the police find a collection of more than a
thousand photographs and they are mostly of women and teenage
boys in sexually explicit poses. In his third trial in

(56:12):
two thousand and three, prosecutors enter emotion to join the
Samso charges with those of the four newly discovered victims,
and so his attorneys, of course tried to contest it,
like you basically saying you can give benefit of the
doubt or whatever they call it reasonable doubt for one,

(56:33):
but you can't do it with four. But they ruled
in the prosecution's favor, and February of twenty ten he
stood trial on five joined charge.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
I can't believe it was so recent.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
I know, it's not weird.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
It seems like it should have been so long ago
this happened because he was.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Doing it for so fucking long. But I think it
was that thing of they had him on one and
he was in jail for one and then suddenly it
was that DNA era that came through all of a sudden,
and that's what that was. When all those specials come out,
is like in those late in the late nineties, were
like they just found this guy.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
A lot of them have that feel to it of
like this guy heard me when he was his own lawyer.
He showed the jury a portion of his nineteen seventy
eight appearance on The Dating Game in an attempt to
prove that the earrings that were found in that Seattle
locker were his own and not SAMSO's, and they end

(57:31):
up bringing Jed Mills, bachelor number two to this trial.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
The fuck so that he.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Can say I would have remembered if a guy.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Was wearing earrings. It was nineteen seventy eight, he was
not wearing earrings.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
The fuck.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah, it is that crazy.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
And then eventually they get Talia, the eight year old
girl that he had raped in the late sixties, and
she comes and testifies so that they can keep this
guy in jail.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Holy shit.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
In March twenty ten, the Huntington Beach and New York
City Police departments released one hundred and twenty of his photographs,
seeking the public's help to identify the people in them
in hope of determining if any of the women and
children he photographed were additional victims. There are nine hundred
additional photo photos that could not be made public because
they were too sexually explicit. So he was like a

(58:24):
fucking oh my kitious kitty porn you know, like pornographer,
exploitive pig obviously.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
The police reported that approximately twenty one women had come
forward to identify themselves, and six families said that they
believe they recognized loved ones who had disappeared years ago
and were never found.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Fuck. They saw their missing.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Loved ones in these photos, but none of the photos
were unequivocally connected to a missing person case or an
unsolved murder until twenty thirteen, when a family member recognized
the photo of Christine Thornton, who was twenty eight whose
body was found in Wyoming in nineteen eighty two.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
I did not even hear about this.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
Yeah, And as of September twenty sixteen, last year, one
hundred and ten of those original photos remain posted online
and the police continue to solicit the public's help with
further identifications.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Let's all go to them right fucking now.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
In twenty sixteen, he was charged with this nineteen seventy
seven murder of a woman who was identified through one
of those photos, and just in closing, which I find
fascinating and interesting, his diagnoses when he was in court.
The psychiatrist diagnos him as having a narcissistic personality disorder

(59:48):
and malignant narcissistic personality disorder with psychopathy and sexual sadism,
co morbiditis, Jesus comorbidities.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
That's the fucking trifecta. You don't you don't want to
end up with, you don't want.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
The word comorbidities anywhere near you know, do you want
to know what it means? It's the presence of one
or more additional diseases or disorders.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Co occurring, Uh, including including just sounds worse liking dead bodies.
Maybe No, I think morbid just is like gruesome or something.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
We'll have to ask guy brand.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
We will have to ask. I'm sure everyone will tell
us on Twitter.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
That was not the greatest version of trying to tell
the Rodney al kyleist.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
And that was very that was very detailed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Did I do all right?

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
You did a great timeline, really interesting. I had some
personal information to share as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
I liked that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
It actually gets worced than that, and I'll tell you afterwards.
But oh no, no, I know, yeah, that was a
good story.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Well, I just recommend anybody that's if you are slightly interested,
take a deep dive because he is uh, really horrifying
and kind of what another one of those lesser known
but very depraved and horrifying monster people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
This was an episode of monster People, Monster People for sure,
from the depths of the fucking hell and plus the
dating game.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Plus the Dating Game, plus the Pacific Northwest is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Always a mix in there somehow, you know, it just
has to be in there. That's depressing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
How about a good thing?

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
How about a good thing?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
How about it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
I did my apartment at my new apartment last time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Thank you, Like, why don't you do?

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
I no no, I did the Chacuozi cat last time,
Jacuzi Cat. And I saw your picture on my instagram.
Jrcuzi cat is real, hard stark. It is my Instagram
and there's a fucking sweet picture of Chacuozi Cat, who
I've seen since gos. The Chacoozie Cat is legit and
he's so chill.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Legit in the real deal is I guess I've already
bragged now twice at you about my best thing. But
my best thing is just it's so fun to work
on a job right now. It's just fun to perform
again on TV. It's really fun to have a fake
eyelashes on holiday long.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
I love fake eyshes.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Aren't they the best?

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
Oh my god? They make you like a queen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yeah, it's pretty fun and for me, like it's just
a period of Uh, I just didn't think I was
going to be performing anymore, and like, yeah, ten years ago,
if you would ask me if any of these things
would be happening, I'd be like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
You're insane.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
I'm stuck in an office building in Bourbonk and I
will never leave here. So I'm very I feel grateful
and like kind of just excited, and I don't know,
I feel fingernails, fingernails, fingernails about it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
What's that mean? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Like kind of fancy and like, oh yeah, maybe I
should have a manicure, Like maybe I should try.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
You need to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I've been in like a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
I've said this a million times, but I've been in
a I've been in a cave for almost a decade, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Then look at you coming out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Look at me out of the cave.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
I love it, and I saw because of nails. Probably
the thing I love and I tried about it is
I've been posting political stuff on Instagram and Twitter. And
you're how scary it is to do that because you're
immediately like refreshing to see people saying me and stuff
to you. But so many people have been saying really
nice things. And the ACLU is a fucking entity that

(01:03:22):
I'm so happy to donate too. And to and that
are fighting for us, And so I started crying when
I saw all the like positive comments from people on
my political posts.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
I just want to read one thing because you wrote
this tonight and I retweeted it. Oh, I know, thank
you because it's beautifully written, and it's exactly right with
all this stuff that's happening in our country right now,
which is incredibly scary. And I have a lot of
friends who like talk about all the time where like,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Know what to do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
This is insane, This is insanity. This is so scary.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
And you tweeted this tonight you said we have an
amazing opportunity to atone for the atrocities past generations inflicted
on those deemed different and undesirable, and then you did
the hashtag love Trump's hate, And it really feels like
that's what's happening right now is those people that are
fucking taken to the streets, who when somebody puts down

(01:04:15):
a Muslim band in order to say that certain people
can't come to this fucking country, people immediately show up
in the streets going no fucking way. That's and to
see it happening, I mean that I sat in the
grocery store parking lot, staring at my phone for an
hour and crying and going, Holy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Fu, these people. It's so empowering and like, up until
like a week ago, I was not looking at articles.
I was feeling so beat down. And maybe it's because
my my lexapro got doubled, I don't know. Suddenly I'm
feeling really like positive and empowered and not scared of
reading these articles and like excited to be part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
We've been told for a year that the majority wants this,
and basically people are showing up in the streets to
say the majority does not want this. No, I am
here to say I don't want this. It's an amazing,
beautiful thing, and you see it now. The thing that
people are tweeting tonight is showing all these people that
are protesting at these airports, and they're protesting at airports.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
In the middle of the country.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
People keep tweeting, oh, look at these look at these
coastal elites in the middle of Kansas, in the middle
of you know, wherever they were.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
It was like the it was like a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
A couple of different people made the coastal elite joke
because it was an airport in Texas, it was an
airport in Wyoming.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Well, you know it's so great too, is that I
feel like for years in every administration, there's been so
many things that should that people are up in arms about,
and that everyone's like, what do we do about this?
And nobody's protested because it's you don't have to do
it's not big enough, there's not enough people, there's not
this army that protests with And suddenly it feels like
we're not letting these things happen. Yeah, and it's there's

(01:06:00):
definitely things that in the past should have been protested
like this and haven't been. And now everyone knows there
is a way for every single person to get involved,
and it's kind of it's empowering to when everyone's like,
I don't know what to do, and it's like, here
are five things you can do. Just go online and
there's protests, you can donate money, you can donate time,
you can you know, make something called make phone calls.

(01:06:22):
It's just there's a lot to do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
You can express yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
But it is very I love the fact that it
kind of kicked off with the Women's March and all
the women's marches being five times bigger than they all
they thought any of them were going to be. But
then this these airport protests watching and it's people I
know that are out there watching people show up by
the thousands to say you cannot do this to people

(01:06:48):
is beautiful and that's what we have to remember, you,
that's what we have to remember. That's the majority. Yeah,
that is truly the majority.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah, and then maybe again, maybe it's Alexifer, but I'm
fucking over my fear and anxiety of protesting, like I'll
be I'll be out there. Oh, being in a crowd. Yeah,
it's hard to be in a crowd, I know, but
it's necessary. Now now I realize it's fucking necessary, and
I don't care if I get a little overwhelmed by it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
It's well, it could be beautiful too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah. Yeah, all right, let's be there. We'll see you
guys there. Yeah, thanks for listening. Go to my favorite
murder dot com. If you are so inclined. I don't know.
We're on Twitter and Instagram and face. I don't know.
You want it, you listen, Thanks for listening. I mean,
you don't do do any of those things. We appreciate listening.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
We really appreciate you listening, and please stay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Sexy, don't get murdered. Bye bye, Elvis. You want to cook?

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Key Mimi? It's your big chance. Do you want to cook?

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Me?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Want cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
That was Elvis all

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Right, and Stephen, thank you for being awesome