55 - Let's Hear Your Podcast

Full of twists and turns, it's a new My Favorite Murder! This week Karen and Georgia get real deep into the story of french maids, Christine and Léa Papin and the "carnival atmosphere" surrounding Dr. Sam Sheppard and the murder of his wife, Marilyn Reese Sheppard.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, How are you? Who are you?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hi? Is that supposed to sound conversational or just into
like simultaneous?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Can I be honest? I don't know what we're doing.
I don't either, but I like the arm raised part.
I think it's kind of like a and we're off
like a conductor, Like we're conductor is an extra yep,
a murder orchestra.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I think this is like episode fifty five and we
still haven't figured out how to start the stupid fucking podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Really, it's like episode three though, because this is the
third episode in my new apartment. That's right, like third
or second, three? Third, thirsh third.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I'm getting used
to it, you know, like we don't know. It's just
got to feel it out. It's definitely different. It's different.
I can see the kitchen.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I'm staring at that. There's totally new blinds. Yeah, oh weird.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
It's big.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's definitely a bigger space. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
It feels like we have to fill more.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
It doesn't feel like mine yet, So I like we're
podcasting at a stranger's house, right, Like I don't want
to spill anything on the couch.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
I love this couch by the way, Thank you. It's
really good. I wanted I got a deal on it. Yeah,
it's very smart of you. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Kia guys. Hey, hi, hi, oh hi. This is the
Furniture Hour. This is introspection evening. It's an apartment introspection.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
I would like to say, just as a kicker offer,
I got in a lot of trouble that I haven't
yet watched the Slenderman documentary from one Miss Julie Klausner
really who I saw last week because she did Guys
Show when I was working on it, and it was
the first thing she said to me is, oh my god,
can you believe the slender Man?

Speaker 1 (02:03):
But I love that about people now, is that the
first thing they talked to about is murder.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
And they're so mad when you don't know what they're
talking about or that you haven't watched.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Okay, can I just say love Juli Klausner her book,
I Don't care about your man amazing. Yeah, he's fucking
That was the stupidest fucking documentary.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh girl, dude. Yes, it just was like shots fired,
Shots Fired. It was a really cool documentary about psychological
issues that the two girls established it out of their
friends you had, yes, But as far as like the
folklore of the slender Man, it just like wasn't compelling.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
It was cool, Like there were two different documentaries. One
was about like creepy pasta and like cool stories that
people online write about like creepy things, yes, and one
was about two girls who have some serious mental issues.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Right, So I just didn't love it.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
You were you looking for more of that slenderman folklore
story and you and it just was too much of
real people.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
No, I knew I already.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I went in knowing that it wouldn't be that it
wouldn't I wouldn't be happy with it, right because I'd
read about it a lot, and like I love the
old like black and white photos that like purportedly show
slender Man in the background and it's fucking.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Cool as shit.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Wind Ram is the fakest of all of those, Like
first of all creepypasta. I want to get into it
and anytime, you know, like Last Podcast on the Left
has episodes that where they read listeners creepypastas, and I
can practically see the fourteen year old boy writing it
at his desk, like it is so because you get
kind of hooked in. There was one I remember one,

(03:36):
not on that podcast, but one time reading by myself
at home, and it was about these guys that had
found this hole and it on the website. I think
I may have found it on Reddit, I can't remember where.
It was like guys who found a hole that they
kept going into. They were like basically caving and then
it's like they basically climbed in. At one point it

(03:57):
really far and kind of got stuck and something came
at them.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
The end, they're like they're made up horror stories or
like creepy stories, and that's cool, but yeah, it's like
a little well.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
The problem is that with all storytelling, the hardest part
is the ending. Yeah, the hardest part is why are
you telling this whole thing? What is it going to
lead up to?

Speaker 1 (04:18):
And commas?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Which are They're lacking endings and commas.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
And maybe accurate spelling, accurate spelling and punctuation.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
The whole thing is basically a visit to a junior
high class I never had to be in because I'm
too old.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
If I were twenty and I could read this shit
and the Internet like existed in its form, now, yeah,
I would be I would be so obsessed. Yeah, but
I'm not and I can't and I won't.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
And you and for this slender Man, it's like, well,
I never heard one hint or hair of slender Man
when I was growing up, which means this isn't even
based in reality.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's not like an old witch that. It's like, did
you hear about that? Did you hear about the Blair
Leddy Mary, bloody Mary?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Did you hear tell this slender Man is as It's
almost like they did. They did some test focused groups
at the mall of like what would scare you a
really tall, skinny.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Man in the back of the playground? Hot topic? Yes,
which I work there.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I'm not trying to actually I am talking shit, but
I work there too, so fuck you.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
It's it's kind of like Jack Skealington's head got stretched.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Instead of Jack.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Skellington being sweet with a big, round punkin head, his
head got stretched and he turned strangely evil and he
just decided to lurk.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
The best part of this documentary to me was the
girl who ends up having like serious mental issues that
stab their friend, which I think is an interesting story
if you're in.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
A true crime.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
The mother her mother that they interview, like there's something
mentally wrong with her, Like she's a kind of like
crazy in this really subtle way. And like that study
to me, like watch it if you're into that, and
tell me what's going on there, because she's trying to
be so empathetic but it's so creepy and not right.

(06:02):
It's like if Ted Bundy were trying to be empathetic,
like when he has that weird interview and you're like,
something is off here. Wait, hold on, knock, knock, knock, Yes,
who is it? Oh, we are being sued by the
mother of the slender Man child murderer.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Your fucking name man? Well, I think their name is Slenderman.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well, but also, isn't that what everybody's watching any of
those things for is like basically you're the armchair psychologist
and you're watching because it's like, yeah, you're right, two kids,
two twelve year old girls as intense as being in
junior high for girls is. And I would I will
literally and truly We've talked about it a million times.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Would not go back for five million dollars. I would
never go back.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
Five million a lot of money. Well, now you expend
it by the time you got our age. That's your stupid, fucking.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Idiot when you're home.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
But it doesn't happen out of nowhere, And so there
are those weird combinations of things that happen if like
if you don't have I'm like, thank god I had
an older sister that told me to shut up all
the time, because then I actually did shut up some
of the time. Yeah, and so I didn't suffer ninety
nine percent.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, thank god I had a mom and a sister
who made me feel so bad about myself that I
was scared to say anything.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yes, and so I didn't say most of the shit. Yeah,
it's true.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I mean I yeah, Oh, speaking of armchair not armchair.
So I've been like deep into fucking true crime this
week for some reason, this past week and this show.
I think I told you about it on Friday. It's
called crime in the Family, and it's so fucking good.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's the chick.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
No, no, no, it's called killer in the Family. Of
course I got that wrong. H So Laura Richard, who
is one of the hosts of the Real Crime Profile podcast,
who also who also led the Case of John bona
Ramsey documentary where they.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Hit the kid with the flash light hit the doll
with the flashlight.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
So she turns out is really fucking smart and cool,
and she's the head of the Violent Crime and Intelligent
Analysis Unit UK, and she has fucking stopped family killings
by identifying like at risk offenders wow and fixing them
before they kill their whole family. So every fucking episode

(08:14):
is a different kind of family killer, like person who
kills her family, it turns out, and she it's not
just like salacious. She tells you like, here's one of
the warning signs. Here's what he did first. Here's like
the shit leading up to the murder. Yes, so that
you can identify those signs and your boyfriend or husband

(08:35):
I I don't know, or your wife I don't.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Know, or a young girl that lives in the apartment
complex there are you.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Thank god. I was like, does Vince have that? Vince
doesn't have that.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Vince doesn't have that. No, Vince is not like that
at all. Like I just kept doing that. Yeah, so
I'm not going to get killed by Vince Good. But
it's really good news. It's on Netflix. I Killer in
the Family.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Check it. That's oh, so it's a new series on Netflix.
I don't know's I don't know if it's a new series,
but I think it's just got on Netflix.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
I have never heard of it, So that's cool. This
chick fucking Laura Richards is cool as shit.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Cool. Yeah. Also turns out Wouceester not it's Wooster. Did
you know that. I wouldn't have known it from spelling.
It's Worcester. It spelled Worcester. Yeah, and it's pronounced Wooster.
I think you have to do the like Woosta.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, you have to talk talk like Marky Mark Wahlberg.
I didn't know how am I supposed to know? We
are from California? Yeah, yeah, No, people who live in
Boston are from Boston.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Get real up in arms about woolstersta. That's correction's corner. Oh okay,
do you have any uh not? Offhand?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I think we totally nailed it last week. There's not
one thing that we said incorrect except except also, I haven't.
I haven't admittedly, I've been working so much that I
haven't been abed to be online. We're making any mistakes
or make mistakes, I've just been I nail it, you know.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
I feel like when I work, I just nail.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
It constantly, like you don't have time to think, and
so your brain isn't like second guessing.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
You can get my own way. I just like naturally good.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
You're the best one. You're just being you. You guys,
always be you unless you're a murderer.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Does that I mean?

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Is it? Yeah? That you just made it?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
No, it's like it's not mine. Always be yourself unless
you're a murderer, then don't be yourself.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
That's hilarious and catchy. It should be one. If it's not,
as you're making fun of me. I am absolutely.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Good. Good. That was That was a lot you do
we have Do we have to talk about this tour?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
We are now basically like the Eagles, where we're on
tour every weekend. We had a meeting where we found
out how many more tour dates are coming. If you
live in some part of the United States where we
have we are not like on record as to be
visiting yet that you can.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Side tweeting at us. Yeah, come to South Carolina.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
We'll probably don't be mad at us just because we're
in this part.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
We're not. It's not about that. Texas. We want hear you. Yeah, Texas.
We hear you, this isn't the one. This isn't the
only one. Yeah, hopefully fingers crossed.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
There seems to be so much more that I as
we were having that meeting and we're making these plans,
I was like, I have to get like my teeth fixed.
I had to get my teeth fixed so that I
am not on a plane and somehow like some too,
like I like I have that. That's my anxiety of
like we're going to be traveling and I'm be in
some weird place and then all of a sudden, it's.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Like nine is that I'm going to die and not
like in a weird place, just like oh suddenly you're
just dead.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, that I'm going to die, or that Vince is
going to die, and we're like the thought of someone
dying when you're not close to them, or you dying
and you're a away, like is so much worse to
me than like than dying in the same city somewhn.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's worse than someone dug directly next to you with
their eyes open staring at Yeah, like at least they
can be next to the whole time instead of like
how did it go through the airport? Security. Oh and
I can't do anything to howl and like, uh, I
mean there's no yeah, there's nothing good about it. Traveling
is going to be fun with me, Karen.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
I mean I feel like we should start stockpiling pills now. Yeah,
just like whatever pills we can get our hands.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yeah, don't send us your fucking Etsy March. We want
pill unless you're adding is this illegal? We're sending it
yes or or or or.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Because we have these feelings ye and we know about them,
they're going to have like very peak experiences because it's like, whoa,
we lived and that was fun and we and we
saw that one river and everything was fine, and everything
was fine, and then we got back home. Yeah that's
my like, I mean I worked on this lant therapy
where it's like like what if you get home and
everything was fine, are you going to be bummed that

(13:05):
you were worrying the whole time? Like what a waste
of this fucking incredible experience?

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Right?

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Also, I'm going to leave a note in every hotel bible.
I don't know, why, what do you what's it going
to say?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
I just like that's my plan to get excited about
something I'm going to need a note in every hotel Bible,
hotel room that I stay in, in their Bible.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Can I make a suggestion, Yes, what if you just
draw a middle finger, like just a drawing and just
a hand flipping off.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
You're a middle finger, my correct middle finger. Wait, remember
we got Oh that's a huge fight. Yeah, that's right,
one of our big fights. I mean, I'm never I'm
not going to draw in a Bible. I'm going to
put a post it note in a Bible note of
a middle finger. I don't know why. That's the first
thing it popped in my head. I went to Catholic school,
so maybe it was just like worst case scenario.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Or a big Jewish star we had. We got it first,
make it. Put a Jewish star right where the New
Testaments art. Yeah, as if to say it just doesn't exist.
It's like a stop son, but it's a Jewish store.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
In the in the beginning where it says the Bible.
You know, do they have an opening like the Bible
the written by Yeah, I'll just put a I'll just
change it to the Torah. People are like, what the hail?

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, the Torah actually all write that, uh, And it
actually sorry, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
There's a couple of people that have tweeted us and
they figured out how to write I'm sorry, and the
i'm is tiny.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
I don't know how.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
They did that, do you how the like the text
of i'm is really small, like legitimate sorry.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
No, I don't know how they did that. I know
it was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Someone actually tweeted us and it said I'm sure someone's
already done this, but look and then it's a sorry.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I bet it says fucking young, creepy pasta fucking slender.
My kids who know how to work the internet like
we don't.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's some fourteen year.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Old boy who we had been shitting on who was like,
but I made yeah, I'm sorry text.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
We stopped listening five minutes was it five minutes ago?

Speaker 2 (15:04):
But he was like, oh, I'm not wanted here, one
hot tear burning down his cheek, honey, come back and
underneath his uh, his his transition lenses.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Listen, we're your mothers. We're trying to make you get
out and fucking play in the street. That's right. Please
play in the street. Go talk to strangers, like get
to get to know people, like, don't sit in home
and like write a Slenderman fucking cosplay.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
They're like, but this whole time, you've been telling me
to stay at home and not talk to stranger.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Not cause trust anybody.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
What's the one where they were like Kermit and like
Gonzo bone each other?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh like erotic fan fiction?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, yeah, my god, I'm aging myself so much, dude,
we might die before this tour even starts.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Let's get honest. Okay, all right, should we start this thing?
I don't think we have any other do we have
other stuff? I have merch corner, Okay, we have to.
We have to my a couple live shows, and then
we have a merch corner in merch corner, so we
have a new we have toxic masculinity ruins the party
one of Karen's great quotes. We have a we have

(16:12):
a bunch of merch with that on it. I just
bought a T shirt.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Can you wear your own shit if it's political?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Can you wear your own like it's like a band
thing where you can't wear your own merch?

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I'm not sure these days, I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
I'm not of that worse, but I feel like that
one is like a saying and it doesn't say my
favorite murder on it.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
But anyways, for.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
The T shirts of the Toxic Masculinity, we're giving fifty
percent to the ACLU throughout February. So if you want
a fucking T shirt, go buy it and feel good
about yourself. Man, And then we have some live show.
Steve and gave me the thing. Okay, if you live
in one of these cities Seattle, no leave, but Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington,

(16:56):
d C, Baltimore, Glenside, Pennsylvania, I take it to our show.
You can go to my favorite murder dot com slash Live.
Oh and our march is on my Favorite Murder shirts
dot com.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Uh so there's tickets left at all those shows, which
is cool. Yeah, so if you feel like it, you
can go to one of those.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
I mean, maybe we'll maybe we'll say hi the end,
go bye bye. Who's first this week?

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Karen Kay, Steven Stephen Thank god? Okay this now, now
that I don't have a job, it was super fun
to sit down in front of my computer and have
nothing else.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Fucking standing over me. Isn't it fun?

Speaker 2 (17:42):
And get into something? Yeah, and here's how I found this,
this murder specifically, the I had one packet left of
the murder cards.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
That those those serial killer or murderer true crime playing
cards or something, not.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
The cold case playing cards. But they were just the
bait like baseball cards. Remember that we got Steven. Did
you get us those for Christmas?

Speaker 4 (18:08):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (18:08):
He's like yeah he motherfuckers, Yes, yes I did. So
I had one pack left. I looked over.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I was sitting in I was like, krickkrick, ready to
find some story.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
And then I looked at she just cracked her things.
Oh yeah, that's me cracking mo knuckles.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
And I looked over and I had one packet unopened,
and have those cards. It's a sign I open it up.
There's of course three mafia guys where it's like NAF
already with you people. Eileen Warnos is in there. Hi,
how are you exciting? But you know, well tried territory.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Sure. Then I come upon this, Oh.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
And this is the best I to get to get murders,
because I'm like, what am I going to fucking do?

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I should just shuffle a deck and pick one that's
not mob because there's tons of good ones. Uh.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
And they start you off like you know every detail,
and then you can be like oh yeah, there is
enough there.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
This is the kind I want to talk about. I'm
sorry that again with your paper in his house and
so also I just really enjoyed like I was typing.
It was all for myself. I didn't have to turn
it in. Nobody was waiting for me to turn it in. Yeah, girl, honey,
I like it. Okay, come with me back to France.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Ooh. February second, nineteen thirty three. Wooh, that's right.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
So a man named Monsieur lance Alan is supposed to
have dinner with his wife and daughter at their friend's house.
He gets there first. They're supposed to meet him there
at six point thirty. They don't show up, so he
goes home to see what's taking them so long. He
arrives to find the front door. The front door is
bolted from the inside, and the only light on in

(19:48):
the entire house is the glow of a single candle,
so he knows that something is terribly wrong, so he
goes to the police station because he thinks a prowler
has broken in. Brings the police back to the house
and two officers climb.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
The back wall and break in the back door. Inside.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
All the lights in the house are out and it's
totally silent. They look around the ground floor with their flashlights.
They're quietly looking around because they're all thinking there's a
prowler inside the house. And they start to climb the
backstairs quietly, and when they're almost to the first floor landing,

(20:29):
so basically the ground floor, they're calling the first floor
the ground floor and the second floor the first floor
in this story. I don't know if it's a French thing.
I found it very confusing, but it's basically ground floor,
first four or second floor. Right. I did that with
my hands visually only for Georgia. Sorry everybody at home.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
So, as they're almost to the first floor it's really
the second floor landing, the first officer on the stairs
sees a white marble on the stair in front of him,
so he leans down.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
To pick it up. It's an eyeball. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
we're off to the races. No eww, it's a human
eyeball and looking up at him.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
So they climbed the last few steps to the first floor,
which is actually the second floor, and they find the
bodies of missus laws law and her daughter. Her adult
daughter brutally murdered their faces quote reduced to a pull.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh my god. That Oh I've read a couple of those,
and that blows my mind.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Okay, I was super bummed because after I read this card,
read the Wikipedia page. Then I found on YouTube which
I highly recommend, a British crime series. And now there's
all these ones I want to watch. I of course
forgot to write down what.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
The name of it is.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
But this one was about them and had all these
French experts and all these people whatever, and the British
narrator also spoke French, so he pronounced all these names
really well.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
But there is a good for him. Good for him,
you know what. That's how it is over there in Europe. Great,
we're happy for him.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
There is a picture of this crime scene that I
accidentally saw. I did thirty three from nineteen thirty three,
and it is so fucking awful.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
I want to say that, Zach Ross.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Uh No, I mean, it's that's what some people are
all about. I'm not normally about it because it sticks
my brain, takes a picture of it, and I can
look back at it any time I want to, which
then I'll do that all the time.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
So I normally don't.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
But there was a part where they talk about how
the adult daughter, Jelviev, that her calves and but were
stabbed and slashed. And as they're explaining that part, the
picture just pans across.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Oh they don't even tell you. Yeah, they don't. They
didn't prep you in any way.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
And it was really horrifying, Like it was really really
gruesome and and like and not just like thin knife
knife marks, like these big ash open gashes and like
as many as you could fit on.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
The back of both legs. Are you serious? It was horrible.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Then it pans out and shows both and these women
you can't see their faces, they're so it's such a
gruesome attack.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah, bashing the head to paulp I saw like a
crime scene photo once on like Cold Case Files, where
you couldn't see the guy's head because there was like
he had a hoodie on and there was just nothing there.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yes, and I did not want to see that. That's
how this is.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's really upsetting because it's like the front of them
looks they look like old fashioned thirties women. Yeah, and
then yeah, horrifying, So dude, so it really is that. Okay,
So the officers there. So they come up palm the scene.
They said, there's teeth and bone on the floor. It's
like it's just it's brutal carnage. So they're thinking, okay,

(24:08):
this murderer is still in the house because it's the
front doors bolted from the inside. So they go up
to the second story, third story, third, third for us,
second for France, and they're checking everything they come, they
check every single room and they check the laundry room
and they see that there is an iron sitting there

(24:30):
with a wrinkled shirt on the ironing board, and they
realize that the maids in the house were surprised while
they were working and interrupted during their work, and so
they're like, okay, so there's two maids that are probably
also the victims of this guy in this house. So
they're like, holy shit wherever, so room by room they're

(24:52):
they're looking for this guy, you know, the intruder, and
these bodies.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I'm scary, you like, with a fucking flashlight doing that
horrifying right.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Once they see that, once they see them actual first
murder scene, and then they find in the laundry, the
laundry room that the maids were there and that their
work was interrupted. They go back downstairs. They let the
sergeant into the house, and then the other policemen send
for the superintendent, the examining magistrate, and the corner and

(25:21):
then the police go back up and continue to search
the rest of the house and uh, it finally ends
at the maid's chambers. They find that that room is
bolted from the inside, so they're like, Okay, this guy's
in this room. They worry that the dead bodies of
the maids are in there with him, so they call

(25:42):
a locksmith, and so then the lock they wait around
for the locksmith to come, and they're listening at the
door while they wait.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
For the locksmith, and it's dead, silent locksmith's tage, I know,
right in like a little French village. So I said,
this is back when doors were actually made of something.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
You couldn't just break it down by like throwing your
shoulder into it twice like every cop show, which then
made me think of the time that my sister I
really wanted to borrow this pink and black pinstripe jumpsuit
of my sister's in high school.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Horrible. It's so eighties.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
It looked like it was like black and pink pinstripe,
black and pink jumpsuit. So it was like black lapel,
black buttons, a black patent leather belt.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yes it sounds you know what it sounds snazzy.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's snazzy jazz hands jumpsuit.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
What's your name? Snazzy snazzy jazz hands.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
My sister, who was a lot thinner than me in
high school, was like, no, you can't borrow. It'll look
bad on you, which it did, but she was like,
had no problem. You wanted to show her, don't do it.
So then I made my mom make her lend it
to me, and she's like fine and gave it to me,
but she didn't give me the belt.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
So the middle part.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Was just elastic without the belt, with two loops that
the belt was supposed to go through. And it made
me so angry that I kicked a hole in the
bottom of my sister's bedroom door. Holy shit, because we
were home alone. So my sister's like, fine, you can
borrow it and threw it at me. But then there's
no belt, so it was like the whole thing fell apart.
So I got it was just like the culmination of everything.

(27:14):
Kicked a hole in the bottom of a door. She
opened the door like holy shit, and then we were
both like, oh no, like now we're dead.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Because it was both it doesn't matter that you did it,
now you did it because she.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Was pissing you off. We're both in trouble. You're both
in fucking trouble and big trouble.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Because my dad did not play with stuff like that,
like yeah he was he would get really mad. So
we took one of those remember those really big Missus
Grossman's stickers. There was like really big hearts, really kind
of basic Teddy Bears.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
It was like the first sticker wave of the early eighties.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
So I had a really huge Missus Grossmith sticker and
we just stuck it at the bottom of.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
My sister's door. I think it's sweet that she like
helped you. Yeah she had well, she had to, I
knows to, Like sweet, Yeah, she knew she was being
an asshole. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Then my mom came on from work because like, you
think I'm stupid, Like, I know, you didn't put a
sticker at the bottom of Laura's door for no reason,
And it's like con cave, yes exactly, And we were
super scared. And then my mom goes, no, you do
realize that your dad, because my dad had eight brothers
and sisters.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
When they would fight.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
They fought one time so bad that they were chasing
one brother. One brother locked himself in the room and
the other brothers took the door off the.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
Hinges to get to a lee.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Shit. And she's like, no, he is. He'll have nothing
to say about this. Don't worry about it. It's not
annoying about parents. It's like you never know it's going
to fucking piss them off. That's exactly right. Like if
you act scared, then they'll be on your side.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
And if you're like, yeah, fuck it, I kicked a thing,
and then you're like, you're grounded for eight days. Anyhow, Listen,
it's like the locksmith shows up because they had to
literally break in that way.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Okay, I forget, I know.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Now we're back in France in a horrible, horrible burder
head hut from Sacramento, Pedaluma, Peda.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
They push, he pushes.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
A thing, he makes the key fall out of the
other side. They open the door and the two maids
are in bed, sleeping now with puppies, just with each
other sisters. It just in their robes, and one of
the maids says, we were expecting you. Wait, they're not dead.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
No.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Uh. Next to the bed, there's a candle on a stool,
and next to the candle there's a hammer.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Colored of blood. That's right, girl. Oh my god, I
was not I thought it was the dad. Oh my god,
I was not expecting that.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
I really made it so I twisted and turned you
on this one.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
You're a good storytelling, Thank you. It's it's because I
hated my sister so much. Thanks Laura, thanks a lot.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
It's all to her doing.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
So the police ask them what did you do to
your mo, and the older maid replies, they wanted to
hit me. I would rather do my masters in than let.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Them do us in. But like with a thousand blows. Yeah,
so holy shit.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
The police ask their names, and the maid tells them
that she is Christine Papin and the other maid is
her younger sister, Leah or Leah I'm sure. When the
police sergeant accuses them of murdering the mother and the daughter,
Leah cries out they shouldn't have threatened us, and the
police start to focus their questioning on Leah because she
seems to be the more fragile of the two, but

(30:36):
then with just one look from her sister, she falls silent,
and Christine tells the police that Leah's deaf and dumb,
and then Leah doesn't say another word and they the
police take them away. Uh okay, So the mother and
daughter have mortal stab wounds to the head and face.

(30:56):
As I already said, the daughter has stab wound to
the butt and calves. The maids slashed the women's faces
open and then smashed their heads with a heavy pewter pot. Uh.
There was blood going up all the walls, and both
women had their eyes pulled out.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
What have we said? Leave the eyes alone?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Leave them alone? But not these two their dresses. Were
they alive when their eyes go?

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yes? Do you think they were alive when their eyes
got they were plucked? Yeah, we'll hear about that later.
Oh no, I don't want detail. You're gonna get them off. Shit.
The dresses were there.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Both of their dresses were pulled up and their underwear
were pulled down, so they were exposed. But the experts
in this documentary talk about how this was like one
of those crime scenes that was from the beginning was
compromised because the cops were walking through it. They didn't
know even though they were walking through it. The locksmith
walked through it, the crime scene photographer walked through it,

(32:02):
and because of the time, they pulled up the dresses.
They pulled up the underwear and pulled down the dresses
so that they could take the crime scene photo. They
didn't leave it as it was to be decent. Yes, exactly.
So Christine, the older sister, the older maid, was questioned
and she said that the iron had broken the day

(32:24):
before they had to have it fixed. So the iron
broke again that day and they knew their mistress would
be angry.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I'm sorry, iron's fucking break, dude.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Well what's interesting and I wish there was more to
be found out about what this family was actually like,
because it's one of those things where now they're dead
and you can't know it was this really intense, like
hideous job.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Anyway.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
I mean, if you get mad at someone for something
that they have absolutely no control over, like, what else
do you get pissed about?

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Right?

Speaker 2 (33:00):
You? Some kind of crazed monster like Mommy dearest type boss?

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yeah? So uh so.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Christine says that when missus laws law. When she told
missus laws law, the iron was broken again. That that
her mistress set upon her. So as she saw her
coming at her, Christine decided to leap at her face
and tear her eyes.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Out with her fingers.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, and then the daughter came in because she heard
that going on. And as she heard that, Christine yelled
to Leah tear her eyes out. And then so Leah
does it to the daughter.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
No.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yes, Then the both women are on their knees like
holding their eye, holding their face in and that like dude,
And that's when they started. That's when they pick up
the They they started hitting in the head with this
pure pot that was nearby, and then one of them
went downstairs and got the other instruments. So they went

(34:06):
to the kitchen and got a knife and a hammer
and brought it back upstairs.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Like the moment your eyes have been plucked out, you know,
you have no hope, Like there's no no, it's getting
at it, there's no like they're not gonna like it's
not gonna be a.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Fight, and then they're gonna walk away.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah no, no, I mean then then they're helpless.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Also, it's just so goddamn horrifying. You're starting you're starting
with the fucking the death blow. Well, also, who can
do that? Oh my god, who can do that? I
can't imagine. It's easy, like it's an easy thing to do,
like not even not even just the I don't mean
like either, I don't.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Even like pulling someone's like the actual strength and like
exactly what's it called agility? Node fortitude and.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
With your hand, Yes, agility. I think you're like I
should be able to know how to do it. No,
it's and it's just the grossest, like yeah, like a
haunted house where like it's like, oh, cal eyeballs in
a bowl or whatever, and like you don't even want
to put your hand in what are basically grapes covered
in you know whatever, Like they do stuff like that
where it's just like loo, it's even just the feeling

(35:16):
of it much less yanking them out and.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
The fact that they could both do it, like the
sisters like you do that too, And she wasn't like no.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, she was like I'm on this, okay. Uh.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
They swapped instruments several times, so they were both beating
the shit out of both of them. At the end
of her testimony, Christine said, I have no regrets.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
You don't have one or two? I mean, it's okay,
Well you can think.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
About it for a little while ago what you know, No, no, no, no,
feel good.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
About all of it.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
And the thing that freaked the cops out where Lea's
answers were exactly the same as Christine's, so they knew
they weren't getting the.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Full story because it was such a hurst story. Yeah.
So however, okay, go ahead, what nothing.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
I mean, the fact that they're admitting to such horrifying
things was like, well, what else is there that they're
keeping from them?

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, this isn't like the worst thing they could ever
say now. And it wasn't like they're trying to blame them.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Right, They're they're blaming them for being a bit about
the iron.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah that's as bad as I got.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, they weren't saying, well, they beat us every single
day or anything.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
We just snapped because they were so awful to it.
You know, it's like, no, we fucking went after the ball,
so their eyes, we.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Went for it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
So they find out that the upbringing is basically they
had an unhappy parents who were unhappily married the mother
was thought to be very disturbed.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
They had an older.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Sister who was sent to live at a Catholic orphanage,
who eventually became a nun and like moved away. Christine
was sent to live with her aunt for the first
seven years of her life and was supposed to be happy.
Then Leah was born and both girls were sent to
a Catholic orphanage by this mother, so the mother was

(37:10):
just like not handling anything. When she's fifteen, though, the
mother takes Christine out of the orphanage and places her
to work as a maid, so that's when she starts.
She started working as a maid when she was fifteen
years old, and in nineteen twenty six, in April of
nineteen twenty six, Christine starts working at the lace Law's house.
And then when Lee is old enough, she comes and

(37:32):
joins her sister. You know, so basically missus lawns Law
is said to be a demanding mistress. She liked her
house very clean. The girls were up at seven o'clock
every morning, cooking, cleaning, going to the market. They worked
fourteen hour days. They had like an hour off here
and there. They were free to leave the house or

(37:52):
just go up to their room. But a lot of
there's a lot of theories that this was basically that
at this period of time, these were like it was
the bourgeoisie who were exploiting the working class. Yeah, so
it was like, i'll pay you a pittance, you're gonna come,
and you're just basically gonna work for as long as
I want you to.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
You're available twenty four hours a day, you know, I mean, yeah,
it wasn't like there were workers' rights back then.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Exactly. It's kind of like how we are with Stephen,
do our bidding. Maybe I'll buy you a del taco.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Oh yeah, Stephen, you have her two bucks for them.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
For the number four comba uh okay. So both of those,
both of the pants sisters are found to be sane,
and they say their relationship was not found to be suspect,
but they were found in bed together kind.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Of nude in a way, and they.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Said eventually it comes out that they were very close
quote unquote huh uh. One of the theories of why
they pulled the women's eyes out was because missus laws
Alan caught the sisters having sex.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Oh shit, and speculation officer.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Speculation officer for sure, but they were saying, because of
how homosexuality was viewed at the time, that it would
be such, it would in of its in and of
itself would be taboo, and then it's incestual.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Maybe it wasn't hers, Maybe it wasn't her sister. You
have to see these pictures the sisters. They look almost
exactly alike. They have the same awesome French eyebrows, but
they look they're so frightening. They look like a picture
out of They look like the thing of like.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Uh, you know, no one's lived in this house for
fifty years, mistresses.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Of the house.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, and then it's like she used to live here,
and then you're like, oh, that's the woman who shows up.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah at night in the hallway. Oh my god, Oh
my god. I yet okay, so so so. Christine finally admits.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
After being held in prison for five months, Ristine finally
admits it was her idea to murder the women. Leah
was just doing her bidding. So the trial was held
in September of nineteen thirty three.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Huge.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
This was like the trial of the century. This is
in Lamal, which is a small village. I don't know
how to pronounce what it's pronounced wa.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Oolsta.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
But like all the biggest newspapers in France go to it.
It's packed, it's crazy. The sisters come in. Both they
both look very sheepish and they whisper. You can barely
hear them talking the whole time, and Christine admits to everything.
There's no they don't put up any kind of argument.
The prosecution psychologist attests there's nothing wrong with the sisters.

(40:48):
There's nothing in their background to suggest there's anything abnormal
about them psychologically and Christine. They say Christine is of
average intelligence and Leah is of low intelligence. But the
defense psychologist has a different opinion. He brings up that
there is almost no motive yet the brutality is beyond extreme,

(41:09):
and he suggests there's a third person present at the murders.
The combination of the personalities between Christine and Leah that
they had because they were so close and they were
the only person the other person had, they had this
kind of weird connection. They call it a folly adieu,
which is when you hear about, you know that story

(41:30):
of those other two.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Weird twins that ran in the freeway, I.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Think, yea yeah. And then there's there's those ones, and
then there's another set of twins. They're black sisters who
also had a similar who.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Went to a mental institution and was like, whoever dies
first has to live a normal the other has to
live a normal life exactly.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
So they call that a folly ado, which means that
you're both you're having a shared hallucination, and they also
associate that.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
With couple killers.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
You're living in this weird fantasy together outside of the
realm of normal thinking.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Wow, oh that's interesting, so they believe they also one
of the that's defense psychologists suggests that they were going
through something called hystero epilepsy, which I didn't look up
and it could directly impact my life.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
But it's basically like they were in a state, that
Christine was in a state, and that Leah was just
so under her sway that.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
She had no choice. How do you have like sustained
epilepsy a thing? No, No, hystero epilepsy.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Okay, So that's just like they went hysterical that their
brain like went great. I'm not sure I should have
looked it up to find out exactly what he meant.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
I want to guess. I mean, that's all we do.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Yeah, but it's basically like they're in they're in some
kind of a hysterical states. Okay, I did it, uh,
I mean, but the weird thing is, it's like, clearly
something special is happening in this situation, because it's not
like they didn't jump at the women, beat him up,
beat him up, hit him in the head once. Yeah,

(43:14):
it wasn't like that. This is sustained extreme insane violence.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, this is like, yeah, dude crazy.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
So basically, the jury, the judge and jury find them
both guilty. Christina sentenced to death because she basically comes
forward and says it was my idea. She's ordered to
be beheaded in the town square, really in the city
of Lamon. Leah is sentenced to twenty years hard labor
and ten years exile.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
That just kind of old fashioned fun. She's like, I
don't want to be wrong, you fuckers.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Anyways, well, fine, then go live on an island, which
sounds great. Christine's sentences changed to a life sentence of
hard labor. Point someone comes in and says there was
something else going on here and that the you know,
these psychologists didn't they basically oversimplified the situation. Obviously something

(44:11):
else was happening, and can we at least get her
her sentence commuted to a life of hard labor or whatever,
twenty years of hard labor. So they do. They go
find Christine. At this point, Christine has been brought to
a mental institution. She's not talking, she's not eating, and
she says that she deserves to die the way the

(44:31):
jury found her to be guilty of that, she deserves
the charge. So she just stopped eating and she's basically
wasting away. When they give her the paperwork to sign
to say that instead of being sent to death and
she gets twenty years hard labor or whatever, she won't
sign it, and she just basically sits in silence, staring

(44:54):
into space. They bring her sister to her, she doesn't
acknowledge her even act like she knows who she is,
and she eventually dies.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Sorry I said that, like Lizzie Cooperman.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Dies. Uh.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
But her sister Leah adapts well to prison.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Life and is released when she's thirty one, thirty one,
So she was She's an old maid that basically, and
she died July twenty fourth, two thousand and one.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
No, yeah, she just lived.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
She went back to wherever the mother lived and like
started her life over and then just kind of like lived.
There was a documentary I don't I don't have the
name of it, but if you find if you look up,
all this stuff obviously is just a click away.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
If I can find it, you can find it.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
But there was a documentary someone went and was like,
there is a papa sister left and they're like, we're.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Going to go find her, and they find her in
like an old folks home right before she died in
her nineties. How was her life?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, and her undies and her nineties, So it's kind
of a And also there's a movie called Sister. My
Sister is one movie, and there's also a bunch of plays.
Jean Paul Sarte and Jean Janet and all these writers
of the time wrote a ton about it because it

(46:19):
became this thing about like the working class and the
exploitation of the workers and how unfair you know, people
with money were to the working class, and that it
was kind of a natural reaction.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Yeah, they said, like dude, like this is what's gonna
happen if we keep fucking treating him like this.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, that is crazy and so violent. Gruesome.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
It's so violent and also so like they wanted to
They smashed their faces and they left their bodies like exposed,
like it was so beyond.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
And they didn't try to hide it, right, It's like
that to me is like you know, you know when
like someone tries to argue mental and mental uh that
they were mentally ill, but they.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Like tried to hide the murder. Yeah, it's like, no,
you weren't because you knew it was wrong and so
you hit it.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
And like they didn't do that, which says to me
something about them not being mentally competent.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
They hid like children. Yeah, like they waited though.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, they didn't run out of the house, which is
just they were on the stairs, like they were right there.
They should have and could have run out, Yeah, but
instead they went to the room and locked the doors,
bed and just like hung out.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Man. What happened to them in the orphanage exactly? Something
fucked well, fuck dude, what are their names again?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Christine and Leah Papin.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Fuck dude, thank you, no, thank you, thank us all
All right, mine's fucked up, but you probably have heard
of it. But it's a good one and I really
wanted to do it, so Karen yes. On the night
of July third, nineteen fifty four, doctor Sam Shepherd Oh

(48:10):
Girl Hey Yes, a neurosurgeon and his wife Marilyn, who
was four months pregnant with their second kid. They lived
on a lakefront home in Bay Village, Ohio, which is
the suburb of Cleveland. Have you been to Cleveland. I've
never been to Cleveland. I don't think we should do
a show there. So they're watching a movie together. Sam

(48:34):
Shepherd falls asleep on the day bed in the living
room and Marilyn tucks their seven year old son into bed,
and then she goes to sleep in their bedroom, and
purportedly in the early morning hours, Sam says he woke
up on the day bed to the cries of his
wife screaming. He runs upstairs and he sees an intruder

(48:57):
in the bedroom and he gets knocked unconscients unconscious. Then
he wakes up. He takes his wife's pulse, and then
he sees the intruder downstairs and chases him out, and
they head down to the beach and there's a tussle
and Sam Shepherd's knocked unconscious. Unconscious again, she says, and

(49:19):
he wakes up. He's like half in the leg, his
shirt's gone, his watch is gone.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
He freaks out.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
He runs home, finds his wife in their bedroom bludgeoned
to death, and she's on the bed. She'd been hit
thirty five times, twenty seven in her head. She had
a broken nose, a shattered skull. There's gashes on her
forehead and scalp. A fingernail gets torn off, which is all.
He creeps me out, and it's horrifying. Two incisors are

(49:47):
broken or ripped out, where she'd either bit her attacker
or was hit so hard that her teeth came out.
There was evidence of a sexual assault only in that
her pajamas hap had been top had and pushed up
around her neck, and one of her pajama legs had
been taken off, and she was posed with her legs

(50:07):
spread open, but there was no sign of sex or rape.
And her body was angled in this crazy way at
the end of the bed where there was basically like
a banister where it was like impossible to have rape her,
so she was pulled down there to make it look
like sexual assault, but it wasn't. And the bedroom's covered
in blood and there's blood throughout the house. So Sam Shepherd,

(50:29):
when he gets back from being unconscious on the beach,
he doesn't call the cops. He tested Marylyn's pulse and
then at five forty am he calls his neighbors basically saying,
I think they've killed Marilyn. So he calls the neighbors.
The neighbors come over. I think one of them was
the mayor of the town and they were over earlier
that night for dinner. They find Sam shirtless and his

(50:50):
pants were wet with a bloodstain on the knee, and
they and he leaves them to go find Marylyn's body,
and then they call the cops. Mace you think of
John Benny exactly. So he's taken to the hospital. He's
examined by his brother who's also a doctor, and it

(51:11):
shouldn't be allowed. And then a green Duffel bag with
some of the trinkets that are stolen from their house
is found close by the house outside in the woods,
and like weird stuff, of course, you know, it looks
like everyone knows what a stage robbery looks like. It's
you know, drawers are pulled out, but neatly nothing of
value is taken, even though things of value are spread out,

(51:35):
that sort of thing, And so the police find inconsistencies
with his story, and they also think it's outlandish. So
he's taken a trial on October eighteenth, that's my sister's birthday,
nineteen fifty four, and prosecutors find out that Shepherd had
a three year long extramural affair with a nurse at
the hospital where he worked at it was ongoing, and

(51:58):
they argue that the affair is his motive for killing
his wife, so she's pregnant, like he doesn't want this
life anymore. That's their argument. And there were a lot
of inconsistencies, one of which was that the family dog,
and I think this is such a normal thing, was
never heard barking, and it always barked it intruders. Yeah,
I feel like neighbors say that all the time. Also,

(52:19):
their seven year old son, Sam was asleep in the
other room during the whole thing and never woke up.
And I was like, well, if she's screaming and he
can hear her in the living room, then the kid
woke up unless he doesn't remember it, or unless they
were fighting all the time. And so he never got
out of bed for it, I mean, or.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Unless he's a heavy sleeper, Like I'm a heavy sleeper
and you can scream and I want ready. Yeah, unless
my dog starts barking that's so sharp, Yeah, and create
like jolting or whatever. But I think like as children,
I don't know, Yeah, they're hard sleepers. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Other issues brought up at the trial was the fact
that there was no sand in Sam Shepherd's hair, even
though he claimed to be sprawled out on the beach.
There was no sign on the beach of a life
or death struggle, and where he claimed to tackle Marilyn's killer.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
He's missing his T.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Shirts, which the prosecutors speculated would have had some of
his Sam Shepherds should contain some blood from the alleged
attack or struggle with the perpetrator. Also, the blood evidence
was fucked up. So Sam Shepherd had a watch on

(53:33):
and when the intruder first hit him, he still had
the watch on, and he said that he went and
took his wife's pulse, but the watch was found in
the green Duffel bag. So after the scuffle at the beach,
the intruder supposedly took the watch, and why did he
take it after the second struggle. He had gone through
Sam Shepherd's wallet supposedly, so why didn't he take it

(53:54):
after the first knockout if he's there for you know,
valuables also, so he took his wife's pulse and touched
her face, what he said had happened, And he had
no blood on his body at all, And he said
he didn't clean himself, so he should have had a

(54:15):
transfer of blood to his fingers. He picked up the
phone after and there's no blood on the phone, which
is weird. M So like, why is it so cleaned up? Uh,
let's see. Someone said that they got sick of me
saying da da da da da the other day?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Was it me?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Are you no? So it doesn't matter? Oh, good call?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Okay. He says he didn't watch her clean up, but
there was no leg.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Well, so you know what, let's listen to your fucking
podcast and see what you say all the time, and
don't say you'd be amazed at the things that you
say and don't say you talk for an extended period
of time.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Fair enough, And all I did is lose my fucking place.
So now I'm yelling at you, you're yelling at them.
But you're making eye contact with me.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I'm really mad at you. Why didn't I turn it
towards Steven? You're really really mad at I'm triggered. Okay, so, okay, fucking.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
So there also should have been sand from the beach
in his wristwatch if they had actually fought at the
beach where he took his fucking watch, and there fucking
wasn't sand in the wristwatch. Yeah, Like, if they were
fighting on the beach, he knocks them unconscious and then
steals his watch, there should be traces of sand in
the watch.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yes or no?

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Well, here's the thing though, every time I think of this,
it's like, yes, except what is this a proven thing
where it happens every time?

Speaker 3 (55:40):
No, you're right, except when you add all the other
evidence in it just kind of you know, is like
a there.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
That looked filthy? What you always just poke? I poked?
Oh I thought it was two fingers. No, it's just one.
It's not creepy.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
But also, and this is just from I think I
saw like two minutes of this story because I keep
avoiding watching a.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Thing on this story because I want to.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I want to watch the whole thing, and I want
to read the Errol Morris book who Errol Morris is
totally on Sam Shepherd's side.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
This is such a crazy and I'm leaving out I'm
leaving out a lot of the evidence that people use
to say he didn't do it because I don't believe that.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
This is such a Jack the Ripper scenario where there's
so much evidence. Yes, but isn't there a thing where
this was not a sandy beach. This isn't the beach.
This is a small pebble rocky beach because this is Ohio,
so it's like a lake front beach.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
It's not tiny sand. Well, what I love about.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
This case, and what I love about unsolved crimes is
that that's a great argument, and let's talk about that.
And then I want to be like, okay, but what
about this and like, yeah, there's so many and it's
because it's so old too. There's no way for us
to definitely, like we can't definitively say like this is wrong,
and this is wrong, and this is wrong, so he
must not have done it.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Or if they saw it once, they smelled a rat,
but they didn't care what size the sand was because
they were like, here's what adds up and here's what
we need to add up so we can get this guy.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Well, that's a lot of people say, is that they
come to the conclusion and they find evidence to support
their conclusion.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
And that's totally there.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
And there was also a guy working as like a
carpenter on at their house. I didn't write about him.
He was obsessed with Marylyn. Supposedly he ended up being
a murderer and like was in taking advantage of women
and was a rapist and like there's all this shit
that people are like, well it was him, clearly, But
I feel like there's so much evidence that doesn't okay.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
I mean seriously, it's like one thousand paths. Yeah. Also,
I never knew he was having an affair with a nurse.
I didn't know she was pregnant.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
So the person he was having the affair with was pregnant. No,
his wife was prob Yeah, the wife, I mean, who knows.
But it's just such a like that is such an
obvious motive.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yes, I never knew there was another woman that's insane.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
That's more of a So that makes more sense to
me than a guy who they are familiar with breaking
in when he knows that Sam is home. That doesn't
make any fucking sense if the person's well, I'm going
to get to that, but the person's motive was robbery
or rape, they wouldn't they would know that Sam was
home and they wouldn't have done it then.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Well, and also if his motive was raped, then wouldn't
he have gotten wouldn't he have gotten away with a rape?

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Because if he's going to do all this other stuff and.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Brutally murder her, Yeah, I think the thing about that
to me, which is sure what my point was there?

Speaker 1 (58:34):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
But what was most telling to me is that around
her ankles were was blood like drag marks that showed
that the person dragged her to the end of the
bed to spread her legs apart. And there was no
way he could have raped her because what's it called
the bannister, the bed frame like bedboard, a foot board board,
bar banister was there, like he couldn't have gotten on

(58:57):
top of her, yes, and there were drag marks showing
that he purposely put her in that position, So like,
why would he not have sexually assaulted her?

Speaker 1 (59:04):
That was?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Why would he break in to be to rob and
then put her in that position without the intent of
sexually assaulting her or why because.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
He was a she because it was the other woman
that broke in and went berserker and went crazy and
was like filled with rage and he had tried to
break up with the other woman, was my wife is pregnant.
I can't do this with you anymore, even though I
promised you the moon and the stars were not doing this.
And she went home one night and it was just like,

(59:33):
guess what, I'm it's fatal attraction time.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
I would agree with that if the injuries weren't as
brutal as they were, and she, who seemed like a badass,
wasn't couldn't fight back enough to have enough Like, I
don't the woman who was pregnant, yeah, she wasn't a Yeah,
the brutality of the murder was overkill, and I don't

(59:56):
it didn't seem like something that, you know, someone her
would have been able to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Do, oh like, because they would have had to really
overpower her.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Although overpowered now exhibit a the picture of the family
I was just talking about when the past sisters who
fucking decimated these two women.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I mean, if we're gonna get sued, let's get fucking sued.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Maybe it was a seven year old son, like, let's
get sued, my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Trying to get sued, trying twenty trying to get sued.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Since jump, we're in a new apartment and we're trying
to get sued.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Jesus Christ, it's the seven year old son. He's not
a heavy sleeper. He went down to the beach. He's
a heavy hitter. He took all the sand out of
the sawlers watched. Oh no, okay, this is the episode. Sorry,
just hate us? Sorry, all right, you should be I am,
I'm genuinely sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
No, you shouldn't be ever, not on this podcast. This
podcast is not a place for sorries except for sorry,
except for.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
That that's not sorry, which is not sorry. Okay, right
bye bye ba Okay would have been I'm gonna fucking
do it constantly now, you motherfucker. Okay. There's no cut
cut to the tweet, and it's from George's mother. I
didn't even know you knew how to treat tweet? You tweet?

(01:01:27):
Did you see a bunch of people looked at my
dad's Twitter because he like tweeted something at me and
I retweeted it. And it's all just the whole. Every
single tweet is a tweet at me, like being like,
oh Georgia, like that sounds fun. He does not tweet
anything unless it's like supportive at me and people lost
their minds, which is sweet. That's cute.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
Okay, So he had no blood on him just about
despite the fact that they supposedly, you know, gott into
altercations twice. There should and there should have been blood
on his hands and fingers if they had actually fought.
And wristwatch in the green bag, no sand blood stains
should have Okay. So there were blood spatters on the watch,

(01:02:09):
but not stains.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Oh yeah, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
So there's this article on crime Lab Crime Library by
Greg McCrary, who was a former FBI profile who's like
the dude who knows some shit, who like didn't come
to a conclusion until he read everything.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
He wasn't biased.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
So he says it also importance in analyzing this crime
and crime scene is to consider the amount of time
it took for the offender to stage the scene. And
I think this stuff is really interesting in like a
matter of reading any crime in general, like any kind
of these crimes. He says crime scenes are high risk environments,
and none more so than a homicide scene. Offenders typically

(01:02:52):
spend no more time than necessary at a crime scene
for fear of being interrupted or caught. Consequently, there's a
high degree of correlation between the amount of time an
offender spends at a crime scene and the offender's familiarity
and comfortability with that scene. The more time an offender
spends at a crime scene, the higher the probability that
the offender is comfortable and familiar with that scene. Offenders

(01:03:14):
who spent a great deal of time at the crime
scene often have a legitimate reason for being at the scene,
and therefore not worried about being interrupted or found at
the scene.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Your face, your face is pissed. No, no, no, I
just now I'm back to that the handyman. Oh but
why but he looks through.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
A basic window and sees Sam Shepherd sleeping on a
couch in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Why risk that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Well, because then it's even more of a victory. It
makes me think of like the East Area rapist or whatever,
where it's like part of his attack was knowing that
the husband was going to be humiliated and in total
psychic emotional pain over what was going on, and maybe
that was part of the risk and part of the
high for him, especially because he was had already been

(01:04:02):
a rapist, which is fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I don't know if he already was yet because I
didn't look it up. Okay, because I am sold on
this guy on Sam Shepherd, bring the murderer, But I
a lot of people are and be unsold very.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Quickly, Okay, he says. The offender will often manipulate the
victims discuss. Oh here's another Okay, this is the John
Beney thing. The offender will often manipulate the victim's discovery
by a neighbor or family member. So yeah, Jean Benet
calling the ramsays calling their friend to come over and

(01:04:36):
find the body, as they did with their friend.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
What was the name Scout the next door neighbor.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Yeah, yeah, before the police, right yeah yeah. So so
finding letting someone else find the body to like almost
be a witness as well, is a fucking thing that
they do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
So, after deliberating for four days, the jury finds Shepherd
guilty of second Deary murder. He sentenced to life in prison. Then,
on July thirtieth, in nineteen sixty one, good old.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Flee Bailey, Oh yeah that guy who was he played
by and O J.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Then the Simpsons Nathan Lane. Yes, yeah, so good amazing.
So he takes over, which is like, oh, everyone's fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
He's chief counsel.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
So Bailey petitions for a writ of habeas corpus something
and I wrote something we should ask Guy Brenham about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Isn't that produced the Body? No, I don't know. I
was wrong recently, so I'm not gonna it is habeas corpus.
I don't know, Stephen, Stephen, I is That's what we
talked about it when on that episode good produce the
Body okay by the United States? Disrecorded?

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
See I could there. It could be a version of that.
I'm wrong, but you're probably right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Uh who called the trial a mockery of justice? And
that Shepherd's it shredded the fourteenth Amendments of right to
do process? Which is that kind of fair? The fucking
media was like all over the place. It was a
carnival atmosphere. The judge refused fucking Stevens, pointing at Karen
and shaking his head. Correct, Yeah, the old Winki wing

(01:06:17):
winky walk. And then yep, you know what I'm saying
the old two fingers underneath.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
The old Uh so doctor Shocker said that the carnival atmosphere. No, no,
don't look that out. He didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
He refused to sequester the jury and told and did
not order them to ignore and disregard media reports of
the case. And this was fucking next, Like this is
this is basically the Simpsons of the sixties and hippies,
Like this was a huge trial because it's like upstanding
doctor in this nice fucking area whose parents were also
like well to do and well known. Yep, and his

(01:06:56):
wife gets brutally murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Sorry, did you say this was sixty eight?

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
In sixty one is when Flee Bailey took over the case.
Oh so this is late fifties, early sixties. Fifty four
is when the crime happened.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Holy shit, I thought it was for some reason, I
thought it was like I thought it was Manson.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Yeah, yeah, it somehow seems that way. Yeah, it does.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
But I think it's when they were it was still
the like post war, like, g golly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
We're gonna fucking have a normal family and something. As
you know, in the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Seventies, you kind of this happened a lot, but not
here okay, so he uh okay. So Shepherd served a
ten years of his sentence and he gets released because
flee Bailey gets him out. And when he gets released,

(01:07:50):
he marries a woman named Adrian Tevin Jonas. She's a
German woman. They had been corresponding during his imprisonment. You know,
she was like, I saw this guy in the newspaper.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
He's hot.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
This is just like out of nowhere. It doesn't matter,
but I thought it was so interesting. So, uh, her
half sister is the wife of Joseph Goebels, the Nazi
prom No, yep, her half sister.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Married like the like number four Nazi yeap was married
to him. I mean I think he was killed in
Nuremberg by then.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
But fuck fuck, you know, like you're not like a
chill person if your sister nope, gets married to that
half sister whatever, let's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Let's just let's just guess that you're not like super
open minded, right, you can't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
There's no way she was like a conscientious objector properly
the fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
There's a there's a there is a percentage, but it
is a seven percent.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
When they when their sister marries Joseph Gobals gobals Gerbels.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
That's heavy duty and not a good association.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
That has nothing to do with the case. I just
found it very interesting. And there's another one of those two.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
The women in that family were into Nutso.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Guy, dude, you're right, that's like that's called having a
bad picker track record.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Hello and psychopath.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
Those two sisters are like on their beds on their stomach,
but their feet up in the air.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Like you know who I like. They both have their
prison photos of their husband. Isn't he dreaming? He's so
dream into death? How many did your kill? Yours killed? Arianna,
Mine kills all of them. He just goes around with
his side and his hood. Well what did he kill
them with?

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Because mine used the lamp that was missing from the
apartment house.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
So this guy who's the former referei profile Greg McCrary.
He was involved as an expert witness for the Third Trial,
which was a civil suit brought on by Sam Shepard
Junior in nineteen ninety nine, saying that his father had
been wrongfully imprisoned. He was suing them to be like
his dad was still in prison. No, I was just

(01:10:04):
trying to clear his dad's name. Oh, bad guys nights
since seventy I was gonna got it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Sorry, end with that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):
But in ninety nine the son who like clearly had
some fucking Stockholm syndrome.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Am I wrong? Well, I mean, I mean we're gonna
exceued by him anyways, let's fucking let's just really go
for it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
Well, seriously, if that happened and your father was like,
believe me, I didn't do it. As the child, it's
like those girls in the staircase. As the child of
that person, you're like, he absolutely didn't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
I need to believe him. Yeah, this is my last
living parent. Yeah, something so horrifying happened to my mom.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
It can't be the worst thing, which is what everyone
is saying it is. It can't be.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
That, especially when you know since the sixties you've been
insisting it wasn't and you can't be like I was wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
Dad admitted it to and all of like popular culture
is insisting he was.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
It's I mean, there's just as much evidence that he
did it then as there is that he didn't do it. Like,
this is definitely one of those This is like a
Jambrenet opinion case. There's no answer. So he loses that case.
And so Greg McCrary says, when you look at the
case closely and distill it to his essence, you can

(01:11:17):
see that it's nothing more than a stage domestic homicide.
And as for the murder weapon's sorry, that's that expert guy. Yeah, okay,
he examined all the evidence and it's a really interesting
crime library article about it. As for the murder weapon,
because she got her fucking head bashed in, it's just

(01:11:37):
one small sentence note at the end of a police
report saying that a small lamp shade was found on
a bookcase in a room on the second floor. That
no lamp was found in the murder room, but Sam's
notebook lay on the nightstand ready for late night calls,
So how would he have taken notes without any light?
And also a local lamp fixer dude said the days

(01:11:58):
before he had fixed and returned earned a lamp to
their residence and I'm guessing it wasn't found, but there's
not a lot of information on that, but.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
This dude said that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
All right, So here's the other weird fucking not not
hav anything to do with this, But so Shepherd's third wife,
Colleen Strickland. Shepherd is the daughter of a professional wrestler.
Oh bring it full circle of my relationship with Vince
of the Rewatch Wrestling podcast. So George Strickland introduced Shepherd

(01:12:26):
to professional wrestling and trained him to be a wrestler.
He made his debut in August nineteen sixty nine at
the age of forty five as quote killer Sam Shepherd.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
What yeah, and I'm sorry, yeah, what after he's out
of jail?

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
Uh huh, And he drew a huge crowd. I'm looking
for Vince's I said, hey, do you know anything about
this dude? And he was like, here's this Like he
just didn't care.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
What was he just broke and needed money or like yes. Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
There's a really great episode of The Memory Palace, which
is one of my favorite podcasts that has like this
just quick, beautiful the way he does. I think it's
episode eighty six about what his life might have been
like at that point, which was he was broke, he
was trying to have a private practice.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
No one wanted to go to him. Oh that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
He married this woman whose dad was a professional wrestler,
and he drew huge crowds.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:13:21):
Now and his I think his dad committed suicide. His
mom died, like all this crazy shit. So he he
was a wrestler for a short time. He wrestled over
forty matches, and Vince says, I believe he came up
with the mandible claw, which was eventually made popular by

(01:13:42):
Mankind Mick Foley, So, my fair wrestlers.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Which I love Mankind, are you? He's such a sweet angel.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
I saw that documentary about him knowing nothing about wrestling
at all, and I was like, every time after that,
I would just be like, what about Mankind?

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
Oh my god, I love him, Mick Fuley, Angel, baby
love him.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
He's so so.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
He has this crazy fucked up and in the memory
palace he's like everyone who's watching him fight wonders if
he's thinking about the night he fought his wife, Like
it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Oh god, I know, I didn't even think about that.
That's why he got a big fucking crowd. Oh that's
so dark.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
So he wrestled over forty matches before his death in
April nineteen seventy from liver failure, and we don't.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Fucking know, Sorgia. That was so also, who was sane?
Thank you? There were so many things. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Now we have to read that book by Errol Morris,
because Errol Morris is convinced he was that he didn't
do it, that the whole thing was like a setup,
and that the guy that Roade wrote Fatal Vision, whose
name I can't remember, basically exploited every tiny thing so
that he could make money because he knew and see

(01:14:58):
I don't know the timeline, but basically that he was
copying the guy that wrote the wrote Helter Skelter, and
he wanted that Helter Skelter money, and so he basically
went in and made it seem like he was guilty,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
Or that's the fucking owl versus staircase argument, you know
what I mean. It's just this thing of like you
can be adamant about something and then there are these
little pieces of evidence that you just can't explain away. Yeah,
so I don't and samwich Jabine like I love that.
I prefer the theory that it was in the family

(01:15:34):
in the same way I prefer that Sam Shepherd did it.
But I would love to hear why he didn't, and
I'd love to hear the evidence that they didn't. But
then I will always come back with you, but to
you with like, okay, but how do you explain that?
You know, it's just that's why I love cold cases.
It's so much more. There's no period on it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
Well, also just the idea, like it seems like he
has this perfect storm of people in his life where
everybody could be guilt.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
Like what I would love.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
To now know is the nurse that he was having
the affair with. I would just love a Oh yes,
she did have a short stint, you know, after coming
at somebody with a knife.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
She didn't kill her second and third husband something like that,
where you're just like, now it's hurt. Now, it's hurt now.
I never even thought of her. That's fun, you don't
kid fun.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
But it makes me think of that Harrison Ford movie
spoiler spoiler spoiler aler alert.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Well, The Fugitive.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
That was a TV show, right that was made based
on Sam Shepherd and it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Was a Harrison Ford movie. It's one of the best movies. Really,
you've never seen the future, you better fucking see it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
Well, they say that leave tonight, Okay, they say that
that clouded so many people's images because they don't remember
what's from the Fugitive and what's not.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Yeah, that's right because it's so similar where it's a
guy that's a guy running because his wife is murdered
and he is so looks so guilty that he knows
he can only run, and he's a doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Well, it's based on him.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
So the other thing about it is that that evening,
it was July third, they had their neighbors over who
ended up finding you know, he called to come over
and look at the body. They had them over for
dinner that night, and they said that they were loving
and sweet and wonderful, and then Sam Shepherd falls asleep
on like they see him fall asleep on the couch,
and it's like, okay, is that legitimate. You can argue

(01:17:22):
that they were in love still, or you could argue
that he was trying to get evidence that they were
happy and normal and he was sleeping. And what makes
me think it's that is that he was also fucking
another woman. Yeah, so they're not happy and loving and
everything's fine and he falls asleep on the couch. He's
fucking someone else at work and he needs them to
see have his fucking alibi.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
Yeah, and maybe maybe the wife is happy and loving
because she doesn't know about the other ones, so she's
having a totally different relationship and a different experience, which
he's this crazy mastermind. I remember also seeing something in
the whatever that like very short amount that I saw

(01:18:06):
in the inn the some documentary about it and then
turned off. But one of the things was when he
they brought him.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Into the hospital, like after.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
You know, he was he was brought in and his
brother examined him and all that kind of stuff, that
he was completely stone faced, emotionless. No matter who talked
to him. He was not crying, he wasn't shaking. It
was as if he was just kind of like there.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Well, he could have been in shock, now I'm arguing
for him. No, I could have just been in shock.
He could have been in shock.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
The other thing is too that they named all his
injuries and shit, but they were all on the left
side of his body, which he could either mean that
the fucking killer was left handed or he just took
his right hand and beat the shit out of himself
with his right hand.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
What are the odds that you'd only have yeah, bruises
on one side.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
Yeah, unless unless his arm that fucking he bashes in
his arm and he can only hit with his I mean,
it's so fun. It's not fun, it's horrible. Marilyn fucking
bless her soul.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Well, it sucks.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
The fact is horrifying, the theorizing and the possibility, because
these are people's real lives. Of course, aside from the victims,
there's the possibility of another victim, which is this doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Who people are?

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
You can see it either way, like the Victim of circumstance,
which is the most romantic. I mean, there was a
TV show on for what ten years or however long
that show was on, and that movie I still can't
believe you haven't seen it. It's truly one of.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
The best mine. I'm gonna watch it as soon as
it's so great for Jones.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
Yeah, I mean, there has to be a couple of
these people who are found guilty or who we all
think are guilty, that we're fucking not and well, and
there's still one hundred pieces of evidence that I could
argue that makes them look guilty. Yeah, and those that sucks,
And we just never know who those people are unless
DNA comes along and exonerates them some kind.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Of weird like we grab the air in the room
and that's somehow in the future pooh this or that
some future air my air DNA theory. Dude, I love it,
but it's it's exactly like the beginning of Shawshank Redemption,
where it's like, yes he was drunk, Yes he was
angry at his wife, Yes she was having an affair, Da
da da. He still didn't kill her. But he goes

(01:20:24):
to jail and he couldn't look guiltier and there's nothing
he can do. And it's just that kind of like
it does happen.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
I've thought about that, like with Vince of like I
almost I don't know what happened. I also drops thing
on my head the other day, and I was like,
Vince is sitting here with me, Like I wonder who
wouldn't believe him that he said that I fucking drop
something on my stupid head. Yeah, on your own hand,
on my own stupid head, right, And.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
Like, except for he can't because you've talked so much
about thinking he might kill you, you've actually made your own
like insurance that he that he will be arrested, and
I will be the first one to ring the doorball.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
I'll be like, dude, I'm so sorry, but I.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
Simply must you're under arrest, You're you're under citizens, you're
under podcast arrest. Vince has I just want to clarify,
Vince has never done anything to me or at me
or near me.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
This is one of Vince's the guy who This is basic.
This is basic anytime or anywhere. You guys came to
my wrap party. You were my guests at my rap
party and Vince's like, as you and I are hot gossing,
Vince is like, what can I get you?

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
We just walked in. I mean, you guys have just
walked You need another do you need another day? Cot Like,
He's just.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
He's the greatest. It would be such a turn if
he killed you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
It would be funny. It's the perfect he's building, the perfect.
I mean I would be surprised, you know. It's not
like it's like, oh yeah, because he's been beating me
for you. It's like what I would be.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Like, whoa that last moment You're like, you know what,
I gotta give this up to you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:54):
Go ahead, and he's like, she didn't fight you earn this?
She laughed because she's a monster. Oh my god, this
is such a horrible conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
This is one of the greatest ladies and gentlemen. They
stay sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
And don't get murdered. Bye Elvis. You want a cookie?
Oh yeah you do. He does my cookie. Bye.