55 - Let's Hear Your Podcast

Full of twists and turns, it's a new My Favorite Murder! This week Karen and Georgia get real deep into the story of french maids, Christine and Léa Papin and the "carnival atmosphere" surrounding Dr. Sam Sheppard and the murder of his wife, Marilyn Reese Sheppard.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi, How are you? Who are you? Hi? Is that
supposed to sound conversational or just into like simultaneous?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Can I be honest? I don't know what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I don't either, but I like the arm raised part.
I think it's kind of like a and we're off.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Like a conductor, like we're conductors and an extra yeah,
a murder orchestra.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Now. I think this is like episode fifty five and
we still haven't figured out how to start this stupid
fucking podcasts.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Really, it's it's like episode three though, because this is
the third episode in my new apartment.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
That's right, third or second? Three? Third, thirsh third yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
You're not getting used to it, you know, like we
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's just got to feel it out. It's definitely different.
It's different. I can see the kitchen I'm staring at that.
There's totally new Linds. Yeah, it's big. It's definitely a
bigger space. Yeah, it feels like we have to fill more.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
It doesn't feel like mine yet, So I like we're
podcasting at a stranger's house, right, Like, I don't want
to spill anything on the couch.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
I love this couch by the way, Thank you. It's
really good. I wanted it. I got a deal on it. Yeah,
you're it's very smart of you. Thank you. Kia guys. Hey,
hi hi oh hi. This is the furniture Hour. This
is introspection evening.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
This apartment introspection.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I would like to say, just as a kicker offer,
I got in a lot of trouble that I haven't
yet watched the Slenderman documentary from one Miss Julie Klausner,
really who I saw last week because she did Guys
Show when I was working on it, and it is
the first thing she said to me is, oh my god,
can you believe the slender Man?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
But I love that about people now, is that the
first thing they talked to you about is murder.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
And they're so mad when you don't know what they're
talking about or that you haven't watched.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Okay, can I just say love Julie Lausner her book,
I Don't care about your Man. Amazing, She's fucking That
was the stupidest fucking documentary.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh girl, dude. Yes, it just was like shots fired,
Shots Fired.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
It was a really cool, uh documentary about psychological issues
that the two girls established. It out of their friends
you had, yes, But as far as like the folklore
of the slender Man, it just like wasn't compelling. It
was cool, Like there were two different documentaries. One was
about like creepy pasta and like cool stories that people

(02:43):
online write about like creepy things, yes, and one was
about two girls who have some serious mental issues.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Right, So I just didn't love it. You were you
looking for more of that slenderman folklore story and you
and it just was too much of real people.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
No, I knew I already. I went in knowing it
wouldn't be that. It wouldn't I wouldn't be happy with it,
right because I'd write about it a lot, and like
I love the old like black and white photos that
like purportedly show slender Man in the background and it's
fucking cool as shit.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Wonder Ram is the fakest of all of those, Like
first of all creepypasta. I want to get into it
and anytime, you know, like Last Podcast on the Left
has episodes that where they read listeners creepypastas, and I
can practically see the fourteen year old boy writing it
at his desk like it is so because some you
get kind of hooked in. There was one I remember one,

(03:36):
not on that podcast, but one time reading by myself
at home, and it was about these guys that had
found this hole and it on the website. I think
I may have found it on Reddit, I can't remember where.
It was like guys who found a hole that they
kept going into. They were like basically caving and then
it's like they basically climbed in at one point really

(03:57):
far and kind of got stuck and then something came
at them.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
The end, Ye're they're like they're made up horror stories
or like creepy stories, and that's cool, but yeah, it's
like a.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Little well, the problem is that with all storytelling, the
hardest part is the ending. Yeah, the hardest part is
why are you telling this whole thing? What is it
going to lead up to? And commas?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Which are They're lacking endings and commas and maybe accurate spelling,
accurate spelling and punctuation.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
The whole thing is basically a visit to a junior
high class I never had to be in because I'm
too old.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
If I were twenty and I could read this shit
and the internet like existed in its form, now, yeah,
I would be I would be so obsessed. Yeah, but
I'm not and I can't and I won't.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
And you and for this slender Man, it's like, well,
I never heard one hint or hair of slender Man
when I was growing up, which means this isn't even
based in reality. It's not like an old witch that.
It's like, did you hear about that? Did you hear
about the Blair Lady Mary, Bloody Mary? Did you hear
tell this slender Man is as It's almost like they did.

(05:04):
They did some tesque focused groups at the mall of
like what would scaryo really tall skinny man in the
fact of the playground hot topic?

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yes, which like I work there. I'm not trying to talk.
I am talking shit, but I work there too, so
fuck you.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's it's kind of like Jack Skellington's head got stretched.
Instead of Jack Skellington being sweet with a big, round
punkin head, his head got stretched and he turned strangely
evil and he just decided to lurk.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
The best part of this documentary to me was the
girl who ends up having like serious mental issues that
stab their friend, which I think is an interesting story
if you're in a true crime the mother her mother
that they interview, like there's something mentally wrong with her,
Like she's a kind of like crazy in this really
subtle way. And like that study to me, like watch

(05:52):
it if you're into that, like and tell me what's
going on there, because she's trying to be so empathetic
but it's so creepy and not right. It's like if
Ted Bundy were trying to be empathetic when he has
that weird interview and you're like, something is off here.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Wait, hold on, knock, knock, knock, Yes, who is it? Oh,
we are being sued by the mother of the slender
Man child murderer.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
It's your fucking name man. Well, I think their name
is slender Man.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, but also, isn't that what everybody's watching any of
those things for is like basically you're the armchair psychologist
and you're watching because it's like, yeah, you're right, two kids,
two twelve year old girls, as intense as being in
junior high for girls is. And I would I will
literally and truly We've talked about it a million times.
Would not go back for five million dollars. I would
never go back. I'm five million on mine.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Well, now you would expend it by the time you
got our age. That's your stupid, fucking idiot when you're home.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
But uh, it doesn't happen out of nowhere. No, And
so there are those weird combinations of things that happen
if like if you don't have I'm like, thank god
I had an older sister that told me to shut
up all the time, because then I actually did shut
up some of the time. Yeah, and so I didn't
suffer ninety nine percent. Yeah, thank god.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
I had a mom and a sister who made me
feel so bad about myself that I was scared to
say anything. Yes, and so I didn't say most of
the shit.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, And it's it's true.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
I mean I yeah, oh, speaking of armchair, not armchair.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
So I've been like a deep.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Into fucking true crime this week for some reason, this
past week and this show. I think I told you
about it on Friday. It's called crime in the Family,
and it's so fucking good.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's the chick.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
No, no, no, it's called killer in the Family. Of course
I got that wrong, huh. So Laura Richard, who is
one of the hosts of the Real Crime Profile podcast,
who also who also you know led the Case of
John ben Ay Ramsey documentary where.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
They hit the kid with the flash light, hit the
doll with the flashlight.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yes, So she turns out is really fucking smart and
cool and she's the head of the violent Crime and
Intelligent Analysis unit in the Okay, and.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
She has fucking stopped.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Family killings by identifying like at risk offenders wow and
fixing them before they kill their whole family. So every
fucking episode is a different kind of family killer, Like
a person who kills her family.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
Turns out.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
And she it's not just like salacious. She tells you like,
here's one of the warning signs. Here's what he did first.
Here's like the shit leading up to the murder. Yes,
so that you can identify those signs in your boyfriend
or husband I don't know, or your wife I don't.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Know, or a young girl that lives in the apartment complex. Yeah,
are you? Thank god?

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I was like, does Vince have that? Vince doesn't have that.
Vince doesn't have that. No, Vince is not like that
at all.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Like I just kept doing that.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, so I'm not going to get killed by Vince Good.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
But it's really good news.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
It's on Netflix. I kill her in the family.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Check it. That's Oh, so it's a new series on Netflix.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I don't know's I don't know if it's a new series,
but I think it's just got on Netflix.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
I've never heard of it. So that's cool. This chick
fucking Laura Richards is cool as shit. Cool.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah. Also turns out wocester it's nuts. It's Wooster. Did
you know that.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I wouldn't have known it from spelling.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
It's Worcester. It's spelled Worcester. Yeah, and I pronounced woolster.
I think you have to do the like Woosta.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, you have to talk talk like Marky Mark Wahlberg.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I didn't know how am I supposed to know?

Speaker 1 (09:30):
We are from California? Yeah, yeah, No, people who live
in Boston are from Boston. Get real up in arms
about Woolster. That that's correction's corner. Oh okay, do you
have any uh not? Offhand? I think we totally nailed
it last week. There's not one thing that we said
incorrect except except wos. Also, I haven't I haven't. Admittedly,

(09:57):
I've been working so much that I haven't been able
to be online.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Or make any mistakes or make mistakes.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
I've just been I nail it, you know. I feel
like when I work, I just nail.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
It constantly, Like you don't have time to think, and
so your brain isn't like second guessing.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
You can get my own way. I just like naturally good.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
You're the best one. You're just being you. You guys,
always be you unless you're a murderer.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Does that I mean?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Uh? Is it yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:24):
That you just made us be your No, it's like
it's not mine. Always be yourself unless you're a murderer,
then don't be yourself.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I don't know. That's hilarious and catchy. It should be one.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
If it's not. If you're making fun of.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Me, I am absolutely good.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Good?

Speaker 1 (10:43):
That was That was a lot you do we have?
Do we have to talk about this tour? We are
now basically like the Eagles, where we're on tour every weekend.
We had a meeting where we found out how many
more tour dates are coming. If you live in some
part of the United States where we have we are
not like on record as to be visiting yet that you.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Can side tweeting at us, Yeah, Tom to South Carolina, Well, probably.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Don't be mad at us. Just because we're in this part,
We're not. It's not about that. Texas hear you, Yeah, Texas,
we hear you.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
This isn't the one. This isn't the only one. Hopefully
fingers crossed. There seems to be.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
So much more that I as we were having that
meeting and we're making these plans, I was like, I
have to get like my teeth fixed, I have to
get my teeth picked so that I am not on
a plane and somehow like some too, like I feel
like I have that. That's my anxiety of like we're
going to be traveling and I'm gonna be in some
weird place and then all of a sudden, it's like nine,

(11:45):
is that I'm going to die and not like in
a weird place, just like oh suddenly you're just dead.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, that I'm going to die, or that Vince is
going to die and we're aware, Like the thought of
someone dying when you're not close to them, or you
dying and you're far away, like is so much worse
to me than like than dying in the same city.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's worse than someone done directly next to you with
their eyes open, staring.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I can't like at least I can be next to
you the whole time instead of like.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
How did it go through the airport security?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (12:16):
And I can't do anything to howl and like, uh,
I mean there's no yeah, there's nothing good about it.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Traveling is going to be fun with me, Karen.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I mean, I feel like we should start stockpiling pills now. Yeah,
just like whatever pills we can get our hands.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, don't send us your fucking Etsy March. We want
pills unless you're adding is this Celi, We're not sending it.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes or or or or because we have these feelings, ye,
and we know about them. They're gonna have like very
peak experiences because it's like whoa, we lived and that
was fun and we and we saw that one river
and everything was fine, and everything was fine, and then
we got back home.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah that's my like I mean, and I work on
it's allant therapy where it's like what, like what if
you get home and everything was fine? Are you going
to be bummed that you were worrying the whole time?
Like what a waste of this fucking incredible experience?

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Right?

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Also, I'm going to leave a note in every hotel Bible.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
I don't know. Why, what do you what's it going
to say? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I just like, that's my plan to get excited about something.
I'm going to leave a note in every hotel Bible,
hotel room that I stay in, in their Bible.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Can I make a suggestion? Yes, what if you just
draw a middle finger? Just a drawing and just a
hand flipping off.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
You're a middle finger, my correct middle finger. Wait, remember
we got Oh that's a huge fight.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, that's right, one of our big fights.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
I mean, I'm not i'mon, I'm not going to draw
in a Bible. I'm gonna put a post it note,
a post.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
A note of a middle finger. I don't know why.
That's the first thing it popped in my head. I
went to Catholic school, so maybe it was just like
worst case scenario or a big Jewish star we had.
We got it first, make it. Put a Jewish star
right where the New Testaments starts. Yeah, as if to.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Say it just doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
It's like a stop sign. But it's a Jewish store.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
In the in the beginning where it says the you know,
do they have an opening like the Bible? The written
by Yeah, I'll just put a I'll just change it
to the Torah.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
People are like, what the hail, Yeah, the Torah? Actually
all right?

Speaker 2 (14:19):
That uh and it actually sorry, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
There's a couple of people that have tweeted us and
they figured out how to write I'm sorry, and the
i'm is tiny. I don't know how they did that,
do you how the like the text of i'm is
really small, like legitimate sorry. No, I don't know how
they did that. I know neither. It was pretty cool.
Someone actually tweeted us and it said I'm sure someone's
already done this, but look and then it said sorry.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
I bet it says fucking young, creepy pasta, fucking slender,
my kids who know how to work the internet like
we don't.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
It's some fourteen year old boy who we had been
shitting on, who was like, but I made the I'm
sorry text.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
We stopped listening five minutes was it five minutes ago?

Speaker 1 (15:04):
But he and he was like, oh, I'm not wanted here.
One hot tear burning down his cheek. Canny come back
and underneath his uh, his his transition lenses.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Listen, we're your mother's we're trying to make you get
out and fucking play in the street.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's right, Please play in the streets.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Go talk to strangers, like get to get to know people,
like don't sit in home and like write Slenderman fucking cosplay.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
They're like, but this whole time, you've been telling me
to stay at home and not talk to strangers, not
cause anybody.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
What's the one where they were like Kermit and like
Gonzo bone each other?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Oh, like erotic fan fiction? Yes? Yeah, yeah, my god,
I'm aging myself so much, dude, we might die before
this tour even starts. Let's get honest. Okay, all right,
should we start this thing? I don't think we have
any other Do we have other stuff? I have merch corner, Okay,
we have to.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
We have to mention couple live shows, and then we
have a merch corner. Merch corner, So we have a
new we have toxic masculinity ruins the party, one of
Karen's great quotes.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
We have it.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
We have a bunch of merch with that on it.
I just bought a T shirt. Can you wear your own.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Shit if it's political?

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Can you wear your own like it's like a band
thing where you can't wear your own merch.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I'm not sure these days. I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
I'm not hoty that works, but I feel like that
one is like a saying and it doesn't say my
favorite murder on it. But anyways, for the T shirts
of the Toxic Masculinity, we're giving fifty percent to the
ACLU throughout February. So if you want a fucking T shirt,
go buy it and feel good about yourself. Man, And
then we have some live show. Steve and gave me

(16:46):
the thing. Okay, if you live in one of these
cities Seattle, no move, but Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington, d C, Baltimore, Glenside, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Go by ticket to our show.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
You can go to my Favorite Murder dot com Slash Live.
Oh and our merch is on my Favorite Murder shirts
dot com.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Uh so there's tickets left at all those shows, which
is cool. Yeah, so if you feel like it, you
can go to one of those. I mean, maybe we'll
maybe we'll say hi the end, go bye bye. Who's
first this week? Karen k Stephen Stephen? Thank god? Okay

(17:29):
this now, now that I don't have a job, it
was super fun to sit down front of my computer
and have nothing else fucking standing over me fun and
get into something. Yeah, and here's how I found this,
this murder, specifically, the I had one packet left of

(17:53):
the murder cards that those those serial killer or murderer.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Collect true crime playing cards or something.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Not the cold case playing cards. But they were just
a bit like baseball cards. Remember that we got Steven.
Did you get us those for Christmas?

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, motherfuckers, yes, yes I did. So I had one
pack left. I looked over. I was sitting and I
was like, krickkrick, ready to find some story. And then
I looked like she just cracked her things. Oh yeah,
that's me cracking my knuckles. And I looked over and
I had one packet unopened, and have those cards. It's
a sign I open it up. There's of course three

(18:33):
mafia guys where it's like NAF already with you people.
Eileen Warnos is in there. Hi, how are you exciting?
But you know, well tried territory. Sure. Then I come
upon this.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh my god, and this is the best time to
get to get murders, because I'm like, what am I
going to fucking do? I should just shuffle a deck
and pick one that's.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Not mob because there's tons of good ones and they
start you off like you know every detail, and then
you can be like, oh yeah, there is enough there.
This is the I want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
I'm sorry, do that again with your paper, because I
was and so.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Also I just really enjoyed. Like I was typing, it
was all for myself. I didn't have to turn it in.
Nobody was waiting for me to turn it in.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, girl, honey, I like it.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Okay, come with me back to France. Ooh February second,
nineteen thirty three. Ooh, that's right. Uh So a man
named Monsieur lance Alan is supposed to have dinner with
his wife and daughter at their friend's house. He gets
there first. They're supposed to meet him there at six

(19:39):
point thirty. They don't show up, so he goes home
to see what's taking them so long. He arrives to
find the front door. The front door is bolted from
the inside, and the only light on in the entire
house is the glow of a single candle, so he
knows that something is terribly wrong, so he goes to
the police station because he thinks a prowler has broken in.

(20:01):
He brings the police back to the house and two
officers climb the back wall and break in the back door.
Inside all the lights in the house are out and
it's totally silent. They look around the ground floor with
their flashlights. They're quietly looking around because they're all thinking
there's a prowler inside the house. And they start to

(20:23):
climb the backstairs quietly, and when they're almost to the
first floor landing, so basically the ground floor, they're calling
the first floor the ground floor and the second floor
the first floor in this story. I don't know if
it's a French thing. I found it very confusing, but
it's basically ground floor, first foor, second floor. Right. I

(20:44):
did that with my hands visually only for Georgia. Sorry
everybody at home. Okay, So, as they're almost to the
first floor it's really the second floor landing. The first
officer on the stairs sees a white marble on the
stair in front of him, so he leans down to
pick it up. It's an eyeball. Yes, yes, yes, yes,

(21:08):
we're off to the races. No eww, it's a human
eyeball and looking up at him. So they climbed the
last few steps to the first floor, which is actually
the second floor, and they find the bodies of missus
Lawsolon and her daughter, her adult daughter, brutally murdered their faces.
Quote reduced to a.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Poll Oh my, the that Oh I've read a couple
of those, and that blows my mind.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Okay, I was super bummed because after I read this card,
read the Wikipedia page. Then I found on YouTube which
I highly recommend, a British crime series. And now there's
all these ones I want to watch. I of course
forgot to write down what the name of it is.
But this one was about them, and they had all
these French like experts and all these people whatever. And

(21:57):
the British narrator also spoke French, so he pronounced all
these names really well. But there is a good for him.
Good for him, you know what. That's how it is
over there in Europe.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Great, We're happy for him.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
There is a picture of this crime scene that I
accidentally saw I Do thirty three from nineteen thirty three,
and it is so fucking awful. I want to say that,
Zach Ross uh No, I mean, it's that's what some
people are all about. I am not normally about it
because it sticks my brain takes a picture of it,

(22:35):
and I can look back at it anytime I want to,
which then I'll do that all the time, so I
normally don't. But there was a part where they talk
about how the adult daughter, Jelviev that her calves and
but were stabbed and slashed, and as they're explaining that part,
the picture just pans across. Oh they don't tell you, Yeah,

(22:57):
they don't. They didn't prep you in any way. And
it was really horrifying, Like it was really really gruesome
and and like and not just like thin knife knife marks,
like these big ash open gashes and like as many
as you could fit on the back of both legs.
Are you serious? It was horrible. Then it pans out

(23:21):
and shows both and these women you can't see their faces,
they're so it's such a gruesome attack.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, bashing the head to Paul. I saw like a
crime scene photo once on like Cold Case Files, where
you couldn't see the guy's head because there was like
he had a hoodie on and there was just nothing there. Yes,
and I did not want to see that.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
That's how this is. It's really upsetting because it's like
the front of them looks they look like old fashioned
thirties women. Yeah, and then yeah, horrifying. So so it
really is that. Okay, So the officer there, so they
come upon the scene. They said, there's teeth and bone
on the floor. It's like it's just it's brutal carnage.

(24:08):
So they're thinking, okay, this murderer is still in the
house because it's the front doors bolted from the inside.
So they go up to the second story, third story, third,
third for us, second for France, and they're checking everything.
They come, they check every single room and they check
the laundry room and they see that there is an

(24:30):
iron sitting there with a wrinkled shirt on the ironing board,
and they realize that the maids in the house were
surprised while they were working and and interrupted during their work,
and so they're like, okay, so there's two maids that
are probably also the victims of this guy in this house.
So they're like, holy shit. Wherever, So room by room

(24:53):
they're they're looking for this guy, you know, the intruder,
and these bodies how scary, like with a fucking flashlight
doing that horrifying right, Once they see that, once they
see the actual first murder scene, and then they find
in the laundry, the laundry room that the maids were
there and that their work was interrupted. They go back downstairs.
They let the sergeant into the house, and then the

(25:15):
other policemen send for the superintendent, the examining magistrate, and
the corner and then the police go back up and
continue to search the rest of the house and uh,
it finally ends at the maid's chambers. They find that
that room is bolted from the inside, so they're like, Okay,
this guy's in this room. They worry that the dead

(25:40):
bodies of the maids are in there with him, so
they call the locksmith and so then the lock They
wait around for the locksmith to come, and they're listening
at the door while they wait for the locksmith, and
it's dead silence, lostage, I know, right in like a
little French village. So I said, this is back when
doors were actually made of something you could and just
break it down by like throwing your shoulder into it

(26:02):
twice like every cop show, which had then made me
think of the time that my sister I really wanted
to borrow this pink and black pinstripe jumpsuit of my
sisters in high school horrible. It's so eighties. It looked
like it was like black and pink pin stripes, black
and pink pinstripes jumpsuit. So it was like black lapel,

(26:23):
black buttons, a black patent leather belt. Yes, it sounds
you know what it sounds snazzy. It's snazzy jazz hands jumpsuit.
What's your name? Sazzy jazz hands. My sister, who was
a lot thinner than main high school, was like, no,
you can't borrow it'll look bad on you, which it did,
but she was like, had no problem. You wanted to

(26:45):
show her, don't do it. So then I made my
mom make her lend it to me, and she's like
fine and gave it to me, but she didn't give
me the belt. So the middle part was just elastic
without the belt, with two loops that the belt was
supposed to go through, and it made me so angry
that I kicked a hole in the bottom of my
sister's bedroom door, holy shit, because we were home alone.

(27:07):
So my sister's like, fine, you can borrow it and
threw it at me, but then there's no belt, so
it was like the whole thing fell apart. So I
got it was just like the culmination of everything. Kicked
a hole in the bottom of her door. She opened
the door like holy shit, and then we were both like,
oh no, like now we're dead.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Because it was both it doesn't matter that you did it,
now you did it because she was pissing you off.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
We're both in trouble. You're both in fucking trouble and
big trouble. Because my dad did not play with stuff
like that, Like yeah he was. He would get really mad.
So we took one of those remember those really big
Missus Grossman's stickers. There was like really big hearts, really
kind of basic Teddy Bears. It was like the first
sticker wave of the early eighties. So I had a

(27:47):
really huge Missus Grossmiths sticker and we just stuck it
at the bottom of my sister's door. I think it's
sweet that she like helped you. Yeah she had well
she had to, I know, but sweet, yeah, she knew
she being an asshole. Then my mom came on from
work because like, you think I'm stupid, Like, I know,
you didn't put a sticker at the bottom of Laura's
door for no reason.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
And it's like concave yes, exactly, and we were super scared.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
And then my mom goes, no, you do realize that
your dad, because my dad had eight brothers and sisters.
When they would fight, they fought one time so bad
that they were chasing one brother that one brother locked
himself in the room and the other brothers took the
door off the hinges to get to a lee. Shit.
And she's like, no, he has he'll have nothing to
say about this.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Don't worry about it. It's not annoying about parents. It's
like you never know it's going to fucking piss them off.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
That's exactly right. Like if you act scared, then they'll
be on your side. Yeah, and if you're like, yeah,
fuck it, I kicked a thing, and then you're like,
you're grounded for eight days. Anyhow, Listen, it's like the
locksmith shows up because they had to literally break in
that way. Okay, I forgot, I know.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Now we're back in France in a horrible, horrible dad
hot from Sacramento to Pedloma.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
They push, he pushes a thing, he makes the key
fall out of the other side. They open the door
and the two maids are in bed, sleeping, no with puppies.
Just with each other sisters. It just in their robes,
and one of the maids says, we were expecting you wait,

(29:22):
they're not dead.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
No. Uh.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Next to the bed, there's a candle on a stool,
and next to the candle there's a hammer covered in blood.
That's right, girl. Oh my god, I was not I
thought it was the dad. Oh my god, I was
not expecting that. I really made it, so I twisted
and turned you on this one. You're a good storyteller,

(29:46):
Thank you. It's it's because I hated my sister so much.
Thanks Laura, thanks a lot. It's all to her doing so.
The police asked, then, what did you do to your masters,
and the older maid replies, they wanted to hit me.
I would rather do my masters in than let them

(30:08):
do us in. But like with a thousand blows, yeah,
so holy shit. The police asks their names, and the
maid tells them that she is Christine Papin and the
other maid is her younger sister, Leah or Leah I'm sure.
When the police sergeant accuses them of murdering the mother
and the daughter, Leah cries out, they shouldn't have threatened us,

(30:29):
and the police start to focus their questioning on Leah
because she seems to me the more fragile of the two,
But then with just one look from her sister, she
falls silent, and Christine tells the police that Leah's deaf
and dumb, and then Leah doesn't say another word and
they the police take them away. Uh. Okay, So the

(30:54):
mother and daughter have mortal stab wounds to the head
and face. As I already said, the daughter has stab
wounds to the butt and calves. The maids slashed the
women's faces open and then smashed their heads with a
heavy pewter popped. Uh. There was blood going up all
the walls, and both women had their eyes pulled out.

(31:20):
What have we said? Leave the eyes alone? Leave them alone,
but not these two their dresses.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Were they alive when their eyes got yes? Do you
think they were alive on their eyes got they were plucked.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, we'll hear about that later. Oh no, I don't
want detail. You're gonna get them off. Shit. The dresses
were they're Both of their dresses were pulled up and
their underwear were pulled down so that they were exposed.
But the experts in this documentary talk about how this
was like one of those crime scenes that was from

(31:52):
the beginning was compromised because the cops were walking through it.
They didn't know even though they were walking through it.
The locksmith walked through it, the crime scene photographer walked
through it, and because of the time, they pulled up
the dresses, they pulled up the underwear and pulled down
the dresses so that they could take the crime scene photo.

(32:12):
They didn't leave it as it was, Yes, exactly. So. Christine,
the older sister of the older maid, was questioned and
she said that the iron had broken the day before
they had to have it fixed. So the iron broke
again that day and they knew their mistress would be angry.
I'm sorry, iron's fucking break, dude. Well, what's interesting and

(32:37):
I wish there was more to be found out about
what this family was actually like, because it's one of
those things where now they're dead and you can't know
it was this really intense, like hideous job anyway.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
I mean, if you get mad at someone for something
that they have absolutely no control over, like, what else
do you get about?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Right? Are you some kind of crazed monster like Mommy
Dearest type bossy? So uh so, Christine says that when
missus Lawnceolaw, when she told Missus Launcelow the iron was
broken again, that that her mistress set upon her. So

(33:22):
as she saw her coming at her, Christine decided to
leap at her face and tear her eyes out with
her fingers. Yeah, and then the daughter came in because
she heard that going on. And as she heard that,
Christine yelled to Leah tear her eyes out. And then
that so Leah does it to the daughter.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
No.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yes, Then both women are on their knees like holding
their eye and holding their face in and that, dude,
and that's when they started. That's when they pick up
the They they started hitting in the head with this
pewter pot that was nearby. And then one of them
went downstairs and got the other instruments. So they went

(34:07):
to the kitchen and got a knife and a hammer
and brought it back upstairs.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Like the moment your eyes have been plucked out, you know,
you have no hope, Like there's no no, it's getting
at it, there's no like they're not gonna like it's
not gonna be a fight, and then they're gonna walk away.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah no, no, I mean then then they're helpless. Also,
it's just so goddamn horrifying.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
You're starting, you're starting with the fucking the death blow.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Well, also, who can do that?

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Oh my god, who can do that? I can't imagine.
It's easy, Like it's an easy thing to do, like
not even not even just the I don't mean like either,
I don't even like pulling someone's I think the actual
strength and like exactly what's it called agility? Node fortitude
and with your hand, yes, agility.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I think you're like I could be able to, I said,
know how to do it? Yeah, No, it's and it's
just the grossest, like yeah, like a haunted house where
like it's like, oh, cal eyeballs in a bowl or whatever,
and like you don't even want to put your hand
in what are basically grapes covered in you know whatever,
Like they do stuff like that where it's just like loo,
it's even just the feeling of it much less yanking

(35:20):
them out and.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
The fact that they could both do it, like the
sisters like you do that too, And she wasn't like no.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, she was like I'm on this okay. Uh. They
swapped instruments several times, so they were both beating the
ship out of both of them. At the end of
her testimony, Christine said, I have no regrets. You don't
have one or two. I mean, it's okay, Well you
can think about it for a little while in the eyes. No, no, no,

(35:50):
feel good about all of it. Uh. And the thing
that freaked the cops out where Lee's answers were exactly
the same as Christine's. So they knew they weren't getting
the full story because it was such a rehearsed story. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
So however, okay, go ahead, what nothing. I mean, the
fact that they're admitting to such horrifying things was like, well,
what else is there that they're keeping from them?

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, this isn't like the worst thing they could ever say.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Now, And it wasn't like they're trying to blame them, right.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
They're they're blaming them for being a bit about the eye. Yeah,
that's as bad as it got. Yeah, they weren't saying,
well they beat us every single day or anything.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
We just snapped because they were so awful to it.
You know, it's like, oh, we fucking went after the ball,
so they're eyes, we.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Went for it. Okay. So they find out that the
upbringing is basically they had an unhappy parents who were
unhappily married. The mother was thought to be very disturbed.
They had an older sister who was sent to live
at a Catholic orphanage, who eventually became a nun and

(36:57):
like moved away. Christine was sent to live with her
aunt for the first seven years of her life and
was supposed to be happy. Then Leah was born and
both girls were sent to a Catholic orphanage by this mother,
so the mother was just like not handling anything. When
she's fifteen, though, the mother takes Christine out of the

(37:18):
orphanage and places her to work as a maid, so
that's when she start. She started working as a maid
when she was fifteen years old and in nineteen twenty six.
In April of nineteen twenty six, Christine starts working at
the Lacelon's house and then when Lee is old enough,
she comes and joins her sister. You know. So basically
missus Lawnslaw is said to be a demanding mistress. She

(37:40):
liked her house very clean. The girls were up at
seven o'clock every morning, cooking, cleaning, going to the market.
They worked fourteen hour days, they had like an hour
off here and there, they were free to leave the
house or just go up to their room. But a
lot of there's a lot of theories that this was
basically that at this period of time, these were like

(38:03):
it was the bourgeoisie who were exploiting the working class.
So it's like, i'll pay you a pittance, you're gonna
come and you're just basically gonna work for as long
as I want you to.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
You're available twenty four hours a day. Yeah, I mean yeah,
it wasn't like there were workers' rights back then.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Exactly. It's kind of like how we are with Stephen.
Do our bidding, Maybe I'll buy you a del taca.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Oh yeah, Stephen, you have heard two bucks for them
for the number four comba.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Okay, So both of those, both of the path sisters
are found to be sane, and they say their relationship
was not found to be suspect, but they were found
in bed together kind of nude in a way, and

(38:55):
they said eventually it comes out that they were very
close quote unquote huh.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
One of the theories of why they pulled the women's
eyes out was because missus Laws alone caught the sisters
having sex. Oh shit, and speculation officer. Speculation officer, for sure.
But they were saying, because of how homosexuality was viewed
at the time, that it would be such, it would
in of its in and of itself would be taboo,

(39:26):
and then it's incestual.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Maybe it wasn't hers, Maybe it wasn't her sister.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
You have to see these pictures their sisters. They look
almost exactly alike. They have the same awesome French eyebrows,
but they look they're so frightening. They look like a
picture out of They look like the thing of like, uh,
you know, no one's lived in this house for fifty years,
my picture stress of the house. Yeah, and then it's
like she used to live here. And then you're like, oh,

(39:53):
that's the woman who shows up at night in the hallway.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Oh my god, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, okay, so so so. Christine finally admits. After being
held in prison for five months, Christine finally admits it
was her idea to murder the women. Leah was just
doing her bidding. So the trial was held in September
of nineteen thirty three. Huge. This was like the trial
of the century. This is in La mall, which is

(40:19):
a small village.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
I don't know how to pronounce what it's pronounced, wosta.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Osta, but like all the biggest newspapers in France go
to it. It's packed, it's crazy. The sisters come in.
Both they both look very sheepish and they whisper. You
can barely hear them talking the whole time, and Christine
admits to everything. There's no they don't put up any
kind of argument. The prosecution psychologist attests there's nothing wrong

(40:51):
with the sisters. There's nothing in their background to suggest
there's anything abnormal about them psychologically and Christine. They say
Christine is of average intelligence and Leah is of low intelligence.
But the defense psychologist has a different opinion. He brings
up that there is almost no motive yet the brutality
is beyond extreme, and he suggests there's a third person

(41:16):
present at the murders. The combination of the personalities between
Christine and Leah that they had because they were so
close and they were the only person the other person had,
they had this kind of weird connection. They call it
a folly adieu, which is when you hear but you
know that story of those other two weird twins that

(41:37):
ran into the freeway. Yeah, and then there's there's those ones,
and then there's another set of twins. They're black sisters
who also had a similar.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Who went to a mental institution and was like, whoever
dies first has to live a normal the other has
to live normal life exactly.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
So they call that a folly adu, which means that
you're both you're having a shared hallucination. They also associate
that with couple killers, that basically you're living in this
weird fantasy together outside of the realm of normal thinking. Wow,
oh that's interesting, so they believe they also one of

(42:15):
the that's defense psychologists suggests that they were going through
something called hystero epilepsy, which I didn't look up and
it could directly impact my life. But it's basically like
they were in a state, that Christine was in a state,
and that Leah was just so under her sway that

(42:39):
she had no choice. How do you have, like, is
sustained epilepsy a thing? No, No, hystero epilepsy. Okay, So
that's just like they went hysterical that their brain like
went great. I'm not sure I should have looked it
up to find out exactly what he meant. I want
to guess. I mean, that's all we do. Yeah, but
it's basically like they're in there in some kind of

(43:00):
a hysterical states. Okay, I did it, I mean, but
the weird thing is, it's like, clearly something special is
happening in this situation, because it's not like they didn't
jump at the women, beat him up, beat him up,
hit him in the head once. Yeah, it wasn't like that.
This is sustained, extreme insane violence. Yeah, this is like, yeah,

(43:26):
dude crazy. So basically the jury, the judge and jury
find them both guilty. Christina sentenced to death because she
basically comes forward and says it was my idea. She's
ordered to be beheaded in the town square, really in
the city of Lamont. Leah is sentenced to twenty years

(43:46):
hard labor and ten years exile, which is kind of
old fashioned fun. She's like, I don't want to be
wrong your fuckers anyways, Well, fine, then go live on
an island, which sounds great. Christine sentenced has changed to
a life sentence of hard labor. At some point someone
comes in and says there was something else going on

(44:06):
here and that the you know these psychologists, didn't They
basically oversimplified the situation. Obviously something else was happening, and
can we at least get her her sentence commuted to
a life of hard labor or whatever, twenty years of
hard labor, So they do. They go find Christine. At

(44:27):
this point, Christine has been brought to a mental institution.
She's not talking, she's not eating, and she says that
she deserves to die the way the jury found her
to be guilty of that she deserves the charge. So
she just stopped eating and she's basically wasting away. When
they give her the paperwork to sign to say that

(44:48):
instead of being sent to death and she gets twenty
years hard labor or whatever, she won't sign it and
she just basically sits in silence, staring into space. They
bring her sister to her, She doesn't acknowledge her, even
act like she knows who she is, and she eventually dies.
Sorry I said that, like Lizzie Cooperman dies. But her sister,

(45:17):
Leah adapts well to prison life and is released when
she's thirty one. Thirty one, so she was she's an
old maid that basically, and she died July twenty fourth
two thousand and one. No, yeah, she just lived. She
went back to wherever the mother lived and like started
her life over and then just kind of like lived.

(45:38):
There was a documentary I don't I don't have the
name of it, but if you find if you look
up all this stuff obviously is just a click away.
If I can find it, you can find it. But
there was a documentary. Someone went and was like, there
is a Papa sister left and they're like, we're going
to go find her, and they find her in like
an old folks home right before she died in her nineties.

(46:01):
How was her life, Yeah, in her unbies in her nineties.
So it's kind of a And also there's a movie
called Sister. My Sister is one movie, and there's also
a bunch of plays. Jean Paul Sarte and Jean Janet
and all these writers of the time wrote a ton

(46:22):
about it because it became this thing about like the
working class and the exploitation of the workers and how
unfair you know, people with money were to the working class,
and that it was kind of a natural reaction.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, they said like dude, like this is what's gonna
happen if we keep fucking treating.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Him like this.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, that is crazy and so violent and gruesome.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
It's so violent and also so like they wanted to.
They smashed their faces and they left their bodies like exposed,
like it was so.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Beyond and they didn't try to hide it, right, It's
like that to me is like you know, you know
when like someone tries to to argue mental and mental uh,
that they were mentally ill, but they like tried to
hide the murder. Yeah, it's like, no, you weren't because you.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Knew it was wrong and so you hit it.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
And like they didn't do that, which says to me
something about them not being mentally competent.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
They hid like children.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Yeah, like they waited though.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, they didn't run out of the house, which is
just they were on the stairs, like they were right there.
They should have and could have run out, Yeah, but
instead they went to their room and locked the door
and just like hung out.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Man, what happened to them in the orphanage exactly? Something
fucked Well, fuck dude, what are their names again?

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Christine and Leah Papet Fuck dude, thank you, no, thank you,
thank us?

Speaker 2 (47:52):
All all right, mine's fucked up, but you probably have
heard of it, but it's a good one and I
really wanted to do it, so Karen Yes. On the
night of July third, nineteen fifty four, doctor Sam Shepherd,

(48:13):
oh Girl Hey Yes, a neurosurgeon and his wife Marilyn,
who was four months pregnant with their second kid. They
lived on a lakefront home in Bay Village, Ohio, which
is the suburb of Cleveland.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Have you been to Cleveland. I've never been to Cleveland.
I don't think I have. We should do a show there.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
So they're watching a movie together. Sam Shepherd falls asleep
on the day bed in the living room and Marilyn
tucks their seven year old son into bed, and then
she goes to sleep in their bedroom, and reportedly in
the early morning hours, Sam says he woke up on
the day bed to the cries of his wife screaming.

(48:58):
He runs upstairs and he sees an intruder in the
bedroom and he gets knocked unconscious, unconscious, then he wakes up.
He takes his wife's pulse and then he sees the
intruder downstairs and chases him out, and they they head
down to the beach and there's a tussle and Sam

(49:18):
shepherd's knocked unconscious. Unconscious again, she says, And he wakes up.
He's like half in the leg, his shirt's gone, his
watch is gone.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
He freaks out.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
He runs home, finds his wife in their bedroom bludgeoned
to death, and she's on the bed. She'd been hit
thirty five times twenty seven in her head. She had
a broken nose, a shattered skull. There's gashes on her
forehead and scalp. A fingernail gets torn off, which is all.
He creeps me out, and it's horrifying. Two incisors are

(49:50):
broken or ripped out, where she'd either bit her attacker
or was hit so hard that her.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Teeth came out.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
There was evidence of a second fill salt only in
that her pajama tap had been top had been pushed
up around her neck, and one of her pajama legs
had been taken off, and she was posed with her
legs spread open. But there was no sign of sex
or rape, and her body was angled in this crazy
way at the end of the bed where there was
basically like a banister where it was like impossible to

(50:21):
have raped her, so she was pulled down there to
make it look like sexual assault, but it wasn't and
the bedroom's covered in blood and there's blood throughout the house.
So Sam Shepherd, when he gets back from being unconscious
on the beach, he doesn't call the cops. He tested
Marylyn's pulse and then at five forty am he calls
his neighbors basically saying, I think they've killed Marylyn. So

(50:45):
he calls the neighbors. The neighbors come over. I think
one of them was the mayor of the town and
they were over earlier that night for dinner. They find
Sam shirtless and his pants were wet with a bloodstain
on the knee, and they and he leaves them to
go find Marylyn's body, and then they call the cops.
M you know what that makes me think of h
John Binney exactly. So he's taken to the hospital. He's

(51:10):
examined by his brother who's also a doctor, and.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
It shouldn't be allowed.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
And then a green Duffel bag with some of the
trinkets that are stolen from their house is found close
by the house outside in the woods, and like weird
stuff of you know, it looks like everyone knows what
a stage robbery looks like. It's you know, drawers are
pulled out, but neatly nothing of value is taken, even
though things of value are spread out, that.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
And so the police find inconsistencies with his story, and
they also think it's outlandish. So he's taken a trial
on October eighteenth, it's my sister's birthday, nineteen fifty four,
and prosecutors find out that Shepherd had a three year
long extramarital affair with a nurse at the hospital where
he worked at it was ongoing, and they argue that

(52:02):
the affair was his motive for killing his wife. So
she's pregnant, like he wants. He doesn't want this life anymore.
That's their argument. And there were a lot of inconsistencies,
one of which was that the family dog, and I
think this is such a normal thing, was never heard barking,
and it always barked it intruders. Yeah, I feel like
neighbors say that all the time. Also, their seven year

(52:23):
old son, Sam was asleep in the other room during
the whole thing and never woke up. And I was like, well,
if she's screaming and he can hear her in the
living room, then the kid woke up unless he doesn't
remember it, or unless they were fighting all the time
and so he never got out of bed for it,
I mean.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Or unless he's a heavy sleeper, like I'm a heavy
sleeper and you can scream and I want Yeah, unless
my dog starts barking that's so sharp, yeah, and create
like jolting or whatever. But I think like as children,
I don't know, Yeah, they're hard sleepers.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah. Other issues brought up at the trial was the fact.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
That there was no sand in Sam Shepherd's hair, even
though he claimed to be sprawled out on the beach.
There was no sign on the beach of a life
or death struggle, and where he claimed to tackle Marilyn's killer.
He's missing his T shirts, which the prosecutors speculated would
have had some of his Sam Shepherds should contain some

(53:24):
blood from the alleged attack or struggle with the perpetrator. Also,
the blood evidence was fucked up. So Sam Shepherd had
a watch on and when the intruder first hit him,
he still had the watch on, and he said that
he went and took his wife's pulse, but the watch

(53:44):
was found in the green Duffel bag. So after the
scuffle at the beach, the intruder supposedly took the watch.
Why did he take it after the second struggle? He
had gone through Sam Shepherd's wallet supposedly, so why didn't
he take it after the first knockout if he's there
for you know, valuables. Also, so he took his wife's

(54:05):
pulse and touched her face, what he said had happened,
And he had no blood on his body at all,
And he said he didn't clean himself, so he should
have had a transfer of blood to his fingers. He
picked up the phone after and there's no blood on
the phone, which is weird. M So like, why is

(54:26):
it so cleaned up?

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Uh? Let's see. Someone said that they got sick of
me saying da da da da da the other day?
Was it me? Are you no? So it doesn't matter? Oh,
good call? Okay.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
He says he didn't watch her clean up, but there
was no leg Well, so you.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Know what, let's listen to your fucking podcast and see
what you say all the time, and don't say you'd
be amazed at the things that you say and don't
say you talk for an extended period of time, fair enough,
and all I did is lose my fucking place. Well,
so now I'm yelling at you.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
They're yelling at them, but you're making eye contact with me.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
So I'm really mad at you. Why didn't I turn
it towards Stephen? You're really mad.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
At I'm triggered? Okay, so okay, so fucking So there
also should have been sand from the beach in his
wristwatch if they had actually fought at the beach where
he took his fucking watch, and there fucking wasn't sand
in the wristwatch? Yeah, Like, if they were fighting on

(55:29):
the beach, he knocks them unconscious and then steals his watch,
there should be traces of sand in the watch, yes
or no.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Well, here's the thing though, every time I think of this,
it's like, yes, except what is this a proven thing
where it happens every time?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
No, you're right, except when you add all the other
evidence in it just kind of you know, is like
a there.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
That looked filthy? What you poke? I poked? Oh I
thought it was two fingers. No, it's just one. It's
not creepy. But also, and this is just from I
think I saw like two minutes of this story because
I keep avoiding watching a thing on this story because
I want to. I want to watch the whole thing,
and I want to read the Errol Morris book who

(56:13):
Errol Morris is totally on Sam Shepherd's side.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
This is such a crazy and I'm leaving out I'm
leaving out a lot of the evidence that people use
to say he didn't do it, because I don't believe.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
That this is such a Jack the Ripper scenario where
there's so much evidence. Yes, but isn't there a thing
where this was not a sandy beach. This isn't the beach.
This is a small, pebble rocky beach because this is Ohio,
so it's like a lake front beach, it's not tiny sand.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Well, what I love about this case, and what I
love about unsolved crimes is that that's a great argument, and
let's talk about that. And then I want to be like, okay,
but what about this, and like, yeah, there are so
many and it's because it's so old too, there's no
way for us to definitely, like, we can't definitively say
like this is wrong, and this is wrong, and this
is wrong, so he must not have done it.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
If they saw it once, they smelled a rat. They
didn't care what size the sand was because they were like,
here's what adds up, and here's what we need to
add up so we can get this guy.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Well, that's a lot of people say, is that they
come to the conclusion and they find evidence to support
their conclusion. Yeah, and that's totally there. And there was
also a guy working as like a carpenter on at
their house. I didn't write about him. He was obsessed
with Marylyn. Supposedly he ended up being a murderer and
like was in taking advantage of women and was a

(57:32):
rapist and like there's all the shit that people are like,
well it was him, clearly, But I feel like there's
so much evidence that doesn't okay.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I mean seriously, it's like one thousand paths. Yeah. Also,
I never knew he was having an affair with a nurse.
I didn't know she was pregnant. So the person he
was having the affair with was pregnant.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
No, his wife was proh Yeah, the wife, I mean,
who knows. But it's just such a like that is
such an obvious motive.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yes, I never knew there was another woman that's insane.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
That's more of a That makes more sense to me
than a guy who they are familiar with breaking in
when he knows that Sam is home. That doesn't make
any fucking sense. If the person's well, I'm going to
get to that, but the person's motive was robbery or rape,
they wouldn't they would know that Sam was home and
they wouldn't have done it then.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Well, and also if his motive was raped, then wouldn't
he have gotten wouldn't he have gotten away with a rape?
Because if he's going to do all this other stuff
and brutally murder.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Her, Yeah, I think the thing about that to me,
which is sure what my point was there?

Speaker 1 (58:37):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
What was most telling to me is that around her
ankles were was blood like drag marks that showed that
the person dragged her to the end of the bed
to spread her legs apart, and there was no way
he could have raped her because what's it.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Called the banister, the bed frame like bedboard, a foot board, good.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Board, bar banister was there, like he couldn't have gotten
on top of her, and there were drag marks showing
that he purposely put her in that position, So like,
why would he not have sexually assaulted her. That was
why would he break in to be to rob and
then put her in that position without the intent of
sexually assaulting her, or why.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Because he was a she because it was the other
woman that broke in and went berserker and went crazy
and was like filled with rage and he had tried
to break up with the other woman. Was my wife
is pregnant. I can't do this with you anymore, even
though I promised you the moon and the stars were
not doing this, and she went home one night and
it is just like, guess what, I'm it's fatal attraction time.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
I would agree with that if the injuries weren't as
brutal as they were, and she, who seemed like a
badass wasn't couldn't fight back enough to have enough like,
I don't the woman who's pregnant, yeah, she wasn't a Yeah,
the brutality of the murder was overkill, and I don't

(01:00:00):
it didn't seem like something that, you know, someone her
equal would have been able to do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Oh like, because they would have had to really overpower her.
Although overpower now exhibit a the picture of the family
I was just talking about when the past sisters who
fucking decimated these two women.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I mean, if we're gonna get sued, let's get fucking sued.
Maybe it was a seven year old son, Like, let's
get sued, my favorite murder, trying to get sued.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Trying twenty something, trying to get sued.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Since jump, we're in a new apartment and we're trying
to get sued.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Jesus Christ, it's the seven year old son. He's not
a heavy sleeper. He went down to the beach. He's
a heavy hitter. He s toook all the sand out
of the sawler's watch. Oh no, okay, this is the episode. Sorry,
just hate us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Sorry, all right, you should be I am, I genuinely sorry. No,
you shouldn't be ever, not on this podcast. This podcast
is not a place for sorries.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Except for sorry, except for that that's sorry, which is
not sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Okay, right bye bye ba Okay would have been I'm
gonna fucking do it constantly now, you motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Okay, there's no cut cut to the tweet, and it's
from George's mother. I didn't even know you knew how
to treat tweet. You tweet up there? Did you see
a bunch of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
People looked at my dad's Twitter because he like tweeted
something at me and I retweeted it, and it's all
just the whole. Every single tweet is a tweet at me,
like being like, oh Georgia, like that sounds fun. He
does not tweet anything unless it's like supportive at me,
and people lost their minds, which is sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
That's cute.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
Okay, So he had no blood on him just about
despite the fact that they supposedly, you know, gott into
altercations twice. There should and there should have been blood
on his hands and if they had actually fought and
wristwatch in the green bag, no sand blood stains should
have Okay. So there were blood spatters on the watch,

(01:02:12):
but not stains. Oh yeah, Okay. So there's this article
on crime Lab Crime Library by Greg McCrary, who was
a former FBI profile who's like the dude who like
knows some shit, who like didn't come to a conclusion
until he read everything. He wasn't biased, so he says

(01:02:34):
it also importance in analyzing this crime and crime scene
is to consider the amount of time it took for
the offender to stage the scene. And I think this
stuff is really interesting in like a matter of reading
any crime in general, like any kind of these crimes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
He says, crime scenes are high risk.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Environments, and none more so than a homicide scene. Offenders
typically spend no more time than necessary at a crime
scene for fear of being interrupted or cot. Consequently, there's
a high degree of correlation between the amount of time
and offender spends at a crime scene and the offender's
familiarity and comfortability with that scene. The more time an
offender spends at a crime scene, the higher the probability

(01:03:13):
that the offender is comfortable and familiar with that scene.
Offenders who spent a great deal of time at the
crime scene often have a legitimate reason for being at
the scene and therefore not worried about being interrupted or
found at the scene.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Your face, your face is pissed. No, no, no, I
just now I'm back to that handyman.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Oh but he looks through a basic window and sees
Sam Shepard sleeping on a couch in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Why risk that, well, because then it's even more of
a victory. It makes me think of like the East
Area rapist or whatever, where it's like part of his
attack was knowing that the husband was going to be
humiliated and in total psychic emotional pain over what was
going on, and maybe that is part of the risk
and part of the high for him, Okay, especially because

(01:04:04):
he was had already been a rapist, which is fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
I don't know if he already was yet, because I
didn't look it up. Okay, because I am sold on
this guy, on Sam Shepard being the murderer, but I
a lot of people are and be unsold very quickly, Okay,
he says. The offender will often manipulate the victims discuss
Oh here's another Okay, this is the John Beney thing.

(01:04:29):
The offender will often manipulate the victim's discovery by a
neighbor or family member. So yeah, Jean Benet calling the
ramsays calling their friend to come over and find the body,
as they did with their friend. What was the name
scout the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Next door neighbor. Yeah, yeah, before the police. Right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
So so finding letting someone else find the body to
like almost be a witness as well, is a fucking
thing that they do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
So, after deliberating for four days, the jury find Shepherd
guilty of second degree murder.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
He sentenced to life in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Then on July thirtieth and nineteen sixty one, Good Old
Flee Bailey, Oh yeah that guy who was he played
by and h o j. Then The Simpsons Nathan Lane, Yes, yeah,
so good amazing. So he takes over, which is like, oh,
everyone's fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
He's chief counsel.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
So Bailey petitions for a writ of habeas corpus something
and I wrote something we should ask Guy Branham about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Isn't that produced the body? No, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
I was wrong recently, so I'm not gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
It is habeas corpus. I don't know, Stephen, Stephen, I
is That's what we we talked about it when on
that episode Good Produce the Body okay by the United
States disrecorded? We see I could there. It could be
a version of that. I'm wrong, but you're probably right. Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Who called the trial a mockery of justice and that
Shepherd's it shredded the fourteenth amendments of right to do process,
which is that kind of fair? The fucking media was
like all over the place. It was a carnival atmosphere.
The judge refused fucking Stevens, pointing at Karen and shaking
his head.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Correct yeah, me, the old winky wink winky wonk. And
then yep, you know what I'm saying, the old two
fingers underneath.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
The old Uh so, doctor Shocker said that the carnival atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
No, no, don't look that up. He didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
He refused to sequester the jury and told and did
not order them to ignore and disregard media reports of
the case. And this was fucking next, Like this is
this is basically the Simpsons of the sixties, and yeahs
like this was a huge trial because it's like upstanding
doctor in this nice fucking area whose parents were also
like well to do and well known.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yep, and his wife gets brewed. Sorry did you say
this was sixty eight?

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
In sixty one is when Flee Bailey took over the case.
Oh so this is late fifties, early sixty fifty four
is when the crime happened.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Holy shit, I thought it was for some reason, I
thought it was like I thought it was Mansen. Yeah, yeah,
it somehow seems that way. Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
But I think it's when they were it was still
the like post war, like, g golly, we're gonna fucking
have a normal family and something, as you know, in
the seventies. You kind of this happened a lot, but
not here, Okay, So he uh, okay. So Shepherd served

(01:07:44):
a ten years of his sentence and he gets released
because flee Bailey gets him out. And when he gets released,
he marries a woman named Adrian Kevin Jonas. She's a
German woman. They had been corresponding during his imprisonment. You know,
she was like, I saw this guy in the newspaper

(01:08:05):
and he's hot. This is just like out of nowhere.
It doesn't matter, but I thought it was so interesting. So, uh,
her half sister is the wife of Joseph Goebels, the
Nazi prom No, yep, her half sister.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Married like the like number four Nazi yeap was married
to him. What the I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
I think he was killed in Nuremberg by then. But
fuck fuck, you know, like you're not like a chill
person if your sister nope, gets married to that half
sister or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Let's let's just let's just guess that you're not like
super open minded, right, you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
There's no way she was like a conscientious objector the fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
There's a there's there is a percentage, but it is
a seven percentage when they.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
When their sister marries Joseph Gobals Gobels Girbels.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
That's heavy duty and not a good association.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Now that that has nothing to do with the case,
I just found it very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
And there's another one of those two The women and
that family were into Nutso guy, dude, you're right, that's
like that's called having a bad picker track record. Hello,
look and psychopath because those two sisters are like on
their beds, on their stomach, but their feet up in
the air like you know, I like, they both have
their prison photos of their husband. Isn't he dreaming? He's

(01:09:30):
so dream into death?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
How many did your kill? Yours killed Arianna?

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Mine kills all of them. He just goes around with
his scythe and his hood. Well what did he kill
them with?

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Because mine used a lamp that was missing from the
apartment house.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
So this guy who's the former referee, profile Greg McCrary.
He was involved as an expert witness for the third trial,
which was a civil suit brought on by Sam Shepard
Junior in nineteen ninety nine, saying that his father had
been wrongfully imprisoned like he was suing them to be like.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
His dad was still in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
No, he was just trying to clear his dad's name.
So bad Didy nights since seventy I was gonna got it. Sorry,
end with that. But in ninety nine the son who
like clearly had some fucking Stockholm syndrome?

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Well, I mean, I mean we're getting sued by him anyways,
let's fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Let's just really go for it. Well, seriously, if that
happened and your father was like, believe me, I didn't
do it. As the child, it's like those girls in
the staircase. As the child of that person, you're like,
he absolutely didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
I need to believe him. Yeah, this is my last
living parent. Yeah, something so horrifying happened in my mom.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
It can't be the worst thing, which is what everyone
is saying it is. It can't be.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
That, especially when since you know, since the sixties, you've
been insisting it wasn't and you can't be like I
was wrong. Dad admitted it to and all of like
popular culture is insisting that he was'. I mean, there's
just as much evidence that he did it then as
there is that he didn't do it. Like this is
definitely one of those. This is like a Jambrenet opinion case.

(01:11:08):
There's no answer, so he loses that case. And so
Greg McCrary says, when you look at the case closely
and distill it to his essence, you can see that
it's nothing more than a stage domestic homicide. And as
for the murder weapon's sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
That's that expert guy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Yeah, okay, he examined all the evidence and it's a
really interesting crime library article about it. As for the
murder weapon, because she got her fucking head bashed in,
it's just one small sentence note at the end of
a police report saying that a small lamp shade was
found on a bookcase in a room on the second floor.
That no lamp was found in the murder room, but

(01:11:50):
Sam's notebook lay on the night stand ready for late
night calls, So how would he have taken notes without
any light? And also a local lamp fixer dude said
that days before he had fixed and returned a lamp
to their residence and I'm guessing it wasn't found, but
there's not a lot of information on that, but this
dude said that. All right, So here's the other weird

(01:12:10):
fucking not not havnything.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
To do with this.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
But so Shepherd's third wife, Colleen Strickland Shepherd is the
daughter of a professional wrestler.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Oh bring it full circle.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
In my relationship with Vince of the We Watch Wrestling podcast,
So George Strickland introduced Sheppard to a professional wrestling and
trained him to be a wrestler. He made his debut
in August nineteen sixty nine at the age of forty
five as quote killer Sam Shepherd.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
What yeah, and I'm sorry, yeah, what after he's out
of jail?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Uh huh, And he drew a huge crowd. I'm looking
for Vince's I said, hey, do you know anything about
this dude? And he was like, here's this Like he
just didn't care.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
What was he just broke and needed money. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Oh, there's a really great episode of The Memory Palace,
which is one of my favorite podcasts that has like this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Just quick, beautiful the way he does.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
I think it's episode eighty six about what his life
might have been like at that point, which was he
was broke. He was trying to have a private practice.
No one wanted to go to him.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
He married this woman whose dad was a professional wrestler
and he drew huge crowds. Oh my god, I know,
and I think his dad committed suicide. His mom died,
like all this crazy shit. So he he was a
wrestler for a short time. He wrestled over forty matches,

(01:13:40):
and Vince says, I believe he came up with the
mandible claw, which was eventually made popular by mankind Mick Foley.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
So, my fair wrestlers, which is love mankind? Are you?
He's such a sweet angel. I saw that documentary about
him knowing nothing about wrestling at all, and I was like,
every time after that, I would just be like, what
about mankind?

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
I love him, Mick Foley, Angel, baby love him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
He's so sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
So he has this crazy, fucked up and in the
in the memory Palace, he's like, everyone who's watching him
fight wonders if he's thinking about the night he fought
his wife, Like it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Oh god, I know, I didn't even think about that.
That's why he got a big fucking crowd. Oh that's
so dark.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
So he wrestled over forty matches before his death in
April nineteen seventy from liver failure, and we don't fucking
know Sorgia.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
That was so awesome. Name who was sane? Thank you?
There were so many things. Thank you. Now we have
to read that book by Errol Morris because Errol Morris
is convinced it was that he didn't do it, that
the whole thing was like a setup, and that the
guy that Roade wrote Fatal Vision whose name I can't remember,

(01:14:54):
basically exploited every tiny thing so that he could make
money because he knew and see I don't know the timeline,
but basically that he was copying the guy that wrote
the wrote Helter Skelter, and he wanted that Helter Skelter money,
and so he basically went in and made it seem
like he was guilty, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Or that's the fucking owl versus staircase argument, you know
what I mean. It's just this thing of like you
can be adamant about something and then there are these
little pieces of evidence that you just can't explain away. Yeah,
so I don't and Samwich Joan Binet like, I love that.
I prefer the theory that it was in the family

(01:15:38):
in the same way I prefer that Sam Shepherd did it.
But I would love to hear why he didn't, and
I'd love to hear the evidence that they didn't. But
then I will always come back with you, but to
you with like, okay, but how do you explain that?
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
It's just that's why I love cold cases. It's so
much more. There's no period on it. Yeah, that's true. Well,
also just the idea, like it seems like he has
this per fixed storm of people in his life where
everybody could be guilty. Like what I would love to
now know is the nurse that he was having the
affair with. I would just love a Oh, yes, she

(01:16:10):
did have a short stint it, you know, after coming
at somebody with a knife. She didn't kill her second
and third husband. Something like that, where you're just like,
now it's hert now, it's hert now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
I never even thought of her. That's fun, you kids, fun.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
But it makes me think of that Harrison Ford movie
spoiler spoiler spoiler a Ler alert.

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
Well, The Fugitive that was a TV show, right that
was made based on Sam Shepherd.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
And it was a Harrison Ford movie. It's one of
the best movies. Really, you've never seen the future, you
better fucking see it. Well, they say that leave tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Okay, they say that that clouded so many people's images
because they don't remember what's from the fugitive and what's not.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Yeah, that's right because it's so similar where it's a
guy that's a guy running because his wife is murdered
and he is so looks so guilty that he knows
he can only run, and he's a doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
Well, it's based on him. So the other thing about
it is that that evening, it was July third, they
had their neighbors over who ended up finding you know,
he called to come over and look at the body.
They had them over for dinner that night, and they
said that they were loving and sweet and wonderful and
then Sam Shepherd falls asleep on like they see him
fall asleep on the couch, and it's like, okay, is

(01:17:24):
that legitimate. You can argue that they were in love still,
or you could argue that he was trying to get
evidence that they were happy and normal and he was sleeping.
And what makes me think it's that is that he
was also fucking another woman. Yeah, so they're not happy
and loving and everything's fine, and he falls asleep on
the couch. He's fucking someone else at work, and he

(01:17:44):
needs them to see have his fucking alibi.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Yeah, and maybe maybe the wife is happy and loving
because she doesn't know about the other one, so she's
having a totally different relationship and a different experience, and
he's mastermind. I remember also seeing something in the whatever
that like very short amount that I saw on the

(01:18:10):
inny some documentary about it and then turned off. But
one of the things was when he they brought him
into the hospital, like after you know, he was he
was brought in and his brother examined him and all
that kind of stuff. That he was completely stone faced, emotionless.
No matter who talked to him. He was not crying,

(01:18:30):
he wasn't shaking. It was as if he was just
kind of like there. Well, he could have been in shock.
Now I'm arguing for him. He could have just been
in shock. He could have been in shock.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Well. The other thing is too that they named all
his injuries and shit, but they were all on the
left side of his body, which could either mean that
the fucking killer was left handed or he just took
his right hand and beat the shit out of himself
with his right hand.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
What are the odds that you'd only have, yeah, bruises
on one side. Yeah, unless unless his arm.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
The fucking he bashes in his arm and he can
only hit with his I mean, so fun, It's not fun,
it's horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Marilyn fucking bless her soul. Well, it sucks. The fact
is horrifying, the theorizing and the possibility because these are
people's real lives. Of course, aside from the victims, there's
the possibility of another victim, which is this doctor who
people are You can see it either way, like the

(01:19:28):
victim of circumstance, which is the most romantic. I mean,
there was a TV show on for what ten years
or however long that show was on, and that movie
I still can't believe you. I haven't seen it. It's
truly one of the best mons. I'm gonna watch it
as soon as it's so great The Jones.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
Yeah, I mean, there has to be a couple of
these people who are found guilty or who we all
think are guilty, that we're fucking not and well, and
there's still one hundred pieces of evidence that I could
argue that makes them look guilty. Yeah, and those that sucks,
and we just never know who those people are unless
DNA comes along and exonerates them.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Some kind of weird like we grab the air in
the room and that's somehow in the future proofs this
or that some future air my air DNA theory. Dude,
I love it, but it's it's exactly like the beginning
of Shawshank Redemption, where it's like, yes he was drunk,
Yes he was angry at his wife, Yes she was
having an affair, Da da da. He still didn't kill her,

(01:20:26):
but he goes to jail for it and it couldn't
look guiltier and there's nothing he can do. And it's
just that kind of like it does happen.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
I've thought about that, like with Vince of like I
almost I don't know what happened. I also drops something
on my head the other day, and I was like,
Vince is sitting here with me, like I wonder who
wouldn't believe him that he said that I fucking drop
something on my stupid head. Yeah, on your own hand,
on my own stupid head, right, And.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
Like except for he can't because you've talked so much
about thinking he might kill you, you've actually made your.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
Own like insurance that he that he will be arrested,
and I.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
Will be the first one to ring the doorball. I'll
be like, dude, I'm so sorry, but.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
I simply must you're under arrest, You're you're under citizens,
You're under podcast arrest. Vince has I just want to clarify,
Vince has never done anything to me or at me
or near me.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
This is one of Vince is the guy who this
is basic. This is basic anytime or anywhere. You guys
came to my wrap party. You were my guests at
my rap party, and Vince's like, as you and I
are hot gossing, Vince is like, what can I get you?
We just walked in. I mean, you guys have just
walked You.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Need another do you need another day?

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Cook? Like, he's just he's the greatest. So it would
be such a turn if he killed you.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
It would be funny.

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
It's the perfect he's building, the perfect. I mean, I
would be surprised.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
It's not like it's like, oh yeah, because he's been
beating me for you. It's like what I would be like,
what that last moment You're like, you know what, I
gotta give this up to you go ahead, And he's like,
she didn't fight you earn. She laughed, because she's a monster.
Oh my god, this is such a horrible conversation. This
is one of the greatest ladies and gentlemen. Stay sexy

(01:22:11):
and don't get murdered. Bye, Elvis. You want a cookie?
Oh yeah you do. He does my cookie. Bye.