58 - Some Quiet Sunday

What a huge goddamn relief, it's a new My Favorite Murder! This week Karen and Georgia talk about the folie à deux of the Eriksson twins and the crimes of Mel Ignatow. Plus a hometown murder from comedian Kurt Braunohler.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hi, welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello, welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello, Hello, Hello, I don't learn how to start this
thing someday.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
What was wrong with that really creepy, unnatural speaking voice?
It was too light. It was kind of like when
someone says they'll scratch her back, but then they just
they kind of just lightly drag their hand across her back.
What is worse than that?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know, it's worse than that is when those blankets
that when you're heels, I got your heels a little
dry and it rubs across those like wooly blankets, or
like gets caught on a cuticle.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Like you're a fucking goat, Like like you're so not Uh,
you're so disgusting that like blankets, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Long it's been since you've fucking taken care of yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Hey, miss Havisham, how why don't you fucking soak these feet? Yeah,
but you know, you know it's worse what uh when
a guy puts his head on your shoulder?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, oh, why are you serious, don't you?

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Isn't that the grossest thing of all time?

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I don't understand that one.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
I don't know I just hate it. Wow, I really
thought you were gonna be with me on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
But I don't know. I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
I don't know. It's like to be cute or.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Something where it's like, can you not be precious?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Like a guy doing that is like, well, you because you.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Also like a masculine dude who takes care of you.
And a guy who fucking puts his head on your
stupid shoulder.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Is like, I mean, it's just a little like they
might as well also kick their outside leg up when
they kiss you and like pull their skirt out a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
What the hell? I'm fine with that, But you know,
it's even grosser when you don't have a garbage disposal.
You have to take the food out of the fucking
the wet food out of the drain of the sink.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
I don't know what you're talking about. That's how it
feels to be abandoned. No, it just made me like, wait,
did you have to do that by hand and then
throw it in the garbage? Yes?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
And it makes me sick to my stomach.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
How old is the food days? Weeks?

Speaker 2 (02:31):
No, it's just like you just did the dishes, Okay,
then you don't food from your mouth.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
You're not a soaker though, because I'll go ahead and
I'll soak some dishes for a good two weeks. Do
you ever do that where you're like, I'm cleaning them
by letting them sit in the sink with soapy water
in them.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, I'll put some I'll put some cold water in
a bowl of like yogurt, and that's never or like cereal,
and it's like it's still gonna get stuck to the
bowl every time. Yes, Like like the thing that we
would yell in my house is put water in it. Yeah,
it's like nobody, nobody knows we'd live in that house.
I lived there for sixteen years and the dishwasher, the

(03:09):
dishwasher never worked a single day. But I lived there
where in the not the other part in the house
I grew up in.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, So you always had to do
everything by hand.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
And so when people would almost willfully ignorantly leave a
bowl of cereal in the sink, yeah, knowing full well
it was just going to then be cemented onto the
side of that.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Right, and you'd get yelled at and have to do it. Yeah,
and then you'd have to take your fucking hand and
take all the wet food out.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Wait, you have a garba disposal now doing it? Now?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I do yeah? Like that's yeah, now I do.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Not You must run that thing all day long, love
it just for no reason, all day just creating kind
of a nice white noise.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
In the background. It's go comforting.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
You know what I hate tell me is when you're
like taking a shower and you're just like, oh, it's
so great to get clean, and you look down there's
like straight up black mold in your shaper or something
like where you the thing of Like you don't notice
how filthy you are until you look at one thing,
and then you're like, oh my god, yeah that's not
like grout. That's not black grouse. The groud is white.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
If someone else saw this, who was a clean person, yes,
well right now in my shower, I hope you didn't
see that when you just peede, is that like there's
leg shavings everywhere? Because I just now like, this is
the first time I've had a white shower yeap, because
our last one was like gray and pink, like vintage
gray and pink for sure, and you can't see that shit.
I'm gray no, but now it's all white.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Now you have to look at your own body, leg
shavings offerings.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I wonder if Vince notices this too.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
I mean, he must be into it. My sister when
she came down, because she is a super clean type
a type person and I am not. My sister got
crazy bummed because the I have that the drain in
my bathtub.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Where your hair gets caught in it.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
It gets caught. There's no like secondary screen I being
able to find because it's just there isn't one, so
it's always backing up. And my sister was so bummed
at the amount of water.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Because it was like I got it.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, And then I was just stand, you're right, that
is gross, but I've never noticed. It's just how it is.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Like standing water, standing water. I don't like that either,
well because then it is gross. It's gross. And then
the leg shavings are like getting attached to your ankles.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
And also they stay when the rest of it drains
because it drains so slow. Then it creates its own
kind of like it looks like a map, like a
topological map of a river basin.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
You look at yourself, look at you can I bring
this back around. Sure, however, it does make your feet
nice and soft on they're soaking in the water there,
It sure does, and then they won't rub on a blanket.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
And like shit, it's great, great away.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
That's been my favorite murder. Imagine someone who's listening for
the first time, they're like, what.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
The They're just like, I saw this.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I came in here for decapitated head.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
This was on a murder list, and it certainly is
no murder.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
This is my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Really quick. One time my dad said to me he
came down to visit me, and then my like, the
thing broke in my toilet hand to go in and
fix the stopper or whatever it is. And while we
were standing in there, he goes, hey, why don't you
spend some quiet Sunday cleaning behind this toilet? And the
level of total disgust that he said it with. I

(06:39):
think of it every time I'm in the bathroom, Bob.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
This is an extra level of con of being condescending.
He can just say, hey, you should clean the back
of your toilet.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Oh no, it always has to be like a one
man show in our family, Hey, what do you take
a quiet spend some quiet Sunday, Wow, cleaning behind this toilet.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't know, Dad, because I'm busy going to therapy
to get over you, or maybe because I just party. Yeah,
I'm life.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I like love. I love to be outside where the
toilet isn't because I have friends. I don't like the
toilet as much as you do. To add, what am
I saying that?

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Because it's not as because you know what's important.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
To me, Dad, living my life, living my life, and
if that means having a filthy toilet, so be.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
It, so be it. You know his problem that isn't
mine mine.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Welcome to My Favorite Murder. It's a murder podcast for murder, Murder, Officionado.
So much murder and crime. God that we're all about it.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Justice. Oh, that's us, totally America America. That's Karen Kilgaraff.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
That's Georgia hard Stark, Khai. We're here to host this
show and sometimes we talk about uh, personal.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Stuff we do totally. I don't know if you was
not even personal, that was just like I don't know.
Every day. I met a guy today who works in
a morgue. He's gonna work in a morgue and is
going to Morgue person school. Yes.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
There.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
We went to lunch today and I got so excited.
I had this incredible therapy appointment that like made life sunnier.
Then I go to this to the restaurant they were
going to meet it. It's Jon's on Third And it's
not like we go there every day, doesn't great everybody
goes there. It's a great pace to eat in Studio City. Well,
the guy is ringing me up for my coffee, was like,
how's your day going? And I'm like good, thanks, how's yours?

(08:27):
And He's like great, I had a job interview. I'm like,
oh Jesus, fucking guy is talking to me now. I'm like, oh,
like being polite, Oh, what was it for? And then
he was like oh at the La County Morgue. And
I was like, what what the fuck do you.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Think he knew? No? Oh, I love that so much.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
He just told like he didn't know how I would react,
and of course I grab him by the arm.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Did you really across the counter?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Oh my god? Tell me everything? And he was like, oh,
you know, blobby blog, I'm going to school to be
a mortuary momortician something like that exactly. I was like
that's amazing. You're in the right. LA is going to
be incredible. And he's like, I know the murderer place. Well,
I said, I said, this is LA's gonna be a

(09:13):
great place to do that. He said, I know. The
murder count just keeps going up.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
She said that. And then I turn around and this
girl came up to me and was like, Hi, I
really like the podcast. This is weird. My grandfather is
a serial killer.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
No. Literally moments later, okay, that's when I walked in. Yeah, okay,
So I have the bad habit of my sunglasses are
also a prescription so when I come in from outside
and my sunglasses are always on my head, which means
I can't see.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
I always forget that you can't see anything.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, I can't see well, like I can't see past
like a couple feet in front of you. Yeah, so like,
and it helps me because walking into a place like
that John's on Third is very like CNB Seen type
of place, and I always get real insecure whatever. So
I'm like, oh, good, better that I don't have a
glasses on except for reading men news and seeing where
Georgia is sitting and all the things that actually meeting

(10:04):
someone if.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
I saw you. But I was in the middle of
this discussion with this girl Anna.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
But also I didn't realize, like I wouldn't. I thought
you'd be seeing by yourself. So when I when this
kind of one blurry figure waved an arm, I was like,
what the hell is going on that I have to
go over here now? And I walk up and Georgia
is in full on like kind of don't interrupt us conversation.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
No, what I was saying is don't tell Karen. Don't
tell Karen. Don't tell Karen when she walks out, so
you don't take Karen.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah, so wait, you're gonna tell me right now.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah. He was a fucking serial killer. He's in prison.
He was like the sheriff in Bakersfield and he was
killing sex workers. No, she didn't know till she was older,
and then she saw an episode of like Forensic Files
and was like, that's my grandfather. Like she was news
in prison but didn't know what the deal is.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Hold on, I know, was that in like the eighties
or nineties.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
She was like eleven, I guess, and she looked in
her early twenties.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, she was pretty young. Yeah, that is so intense, and.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
I was like this Isa bye By. Yeah, because I
can't keep a secret. I'm like not good at that.
So I didn't want to be.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Like, that's so good.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
My name is nice Goats on Twitter Nice Goats. His
name is David Keith Rogers. He's and her. She said
her grandmother wrote him a letter every single day, called
him every Sunday, despite the fact that he was a
serial killer.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Denial, denial. That's some serious denial. She's like, that's not
the man I'm married. No, Well, talk about living in
double life. He's he's the sheriff and he's that is
a nightmare. That's that's like, that's his true detective. Yeah,
season all of them, never because it will never happen.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Can I Can I say one other thing? Yes that
I love.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm listening to another new podcast that I finished within
a couple of days, as I do, called In the
Dark the Jacob Weater.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Oh no, I haven't. I haven't heard it.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well I didn't. I was like, Jacob but Water, like
everyone knows what happened with him is a kid that
got kidnapped, you know, in Minnesota and they ate in
eighties whatever, and so I was like, I'll just listen
to an episode. It is fucking enthralling. It is one
of the best fucking investigative journalists dick podcasts to be
things I've ever listened to.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
It.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
I gotta listen to It's incredible. And it's not about
Jacob Wedterling. It's about everything that went wrong in It's
like it is a fucking hard look at law enforcement. Wow,
and how they mishandled the entire fucking case and how
a fueled stranger danger and the sex offender registries and
is that the right thing to do? And like it's

(12:39):
and then they just solve the case like a week
before they were going to put the podcast out. WHOA,
I like, tie all this shit into it.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Wow. Oh, I've got to listen to that.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Madeleine Baron is the host. I love that it's all
these fucking badass women who are hosting these incredible investigative journalism.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
So in the dark it's called in the Dark.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
In the Dark, U fucking I could not stop listening
to it. Oh, I love that.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I actually just thought of this too because I just
watched of if Nobody if you're not watching Vanity Fair Confidential,
which is a series.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
On a place what watch park? Do you not know?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
I'm just trying to think of where it is, but
it might be investigation, discovery or something. It doesn't matter.
You can just put it in, but it's they have.
They basically go over stories that have been in Vanity Fair,
which is a tough magazine that's existed for like seventy
plus years maybe long, great art, great investigative journalism. Yeah, yeah,
And the one that I watched yesterday was about this

(13:41):
couple which was basically about satanic panic and that mird
thing that happened in the eighties where all of a
sudden it was like at the Martin preschool preschool case,
and then there was this other one that happened to
these people in Austin, Texas, and they just got out
of jail and they still haven't been exonerated.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Fucking kidding, they were.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Just released of like that. It's basically what you were
just talking about. Where back then when they knew nothing
about how leading, how how much you could screw up
an interview with a four year old or a three
year old, how easy it is to get that child
to say exactly what you want them to say, totally,
and that's how all those things exploded. That's why it
happened all at the same time.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
That's amazing. That shit, that is what fucking happens in
this podcast, and it is incredible how it's so terrifying,
Like I have to listen to a positive book now
because I'm so fucked up over it. Yeah, Oh, I
gotta listen to that and Vanity Fair Confidential. What's cool
is that they take those articles and they interview like
the main narrator interviewer guy is the person is the

(14:43):
person who wrote that article? Yes, I love that.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
And then other than the police that were there and
the other family members and stuff, they've been The last
couple that I've watched have been so good. It's just
like it's a really well done series.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I watched it in a while. I'm gonna check it out.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Cool. Also, did you say that thing someone tweeted at
us or it was somewhere like I think it was
on our Facebook about the windshield wiper shirt?

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yes, Trick, Yes, is that do you think that's true? Probably?
I mean it could have like its sources in some
once true thing. But I like the idea that people
spread that around me too, because I think it's that
thing of just like eyes open, eyes open, and don't like.
So basically what it was is there is a picture

(15:29):
I think it was either on Instagram or Twitter or whatever,
but it's like a girl there's a shirt wrapped around
her windshield wiper, and then when she gets out to
take it off, there's people there that are like to
grab her because she's out of her car.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Right, they get you get in your car at night,
you're being very careful in this built in the structure,
and then oh shit, there's something on my windshield. I
better get out and take it off. Yeah, and then
that's like that's when your guard is down.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yes, So it's just the idea and that thing spread
like wildfire.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
I saw that in a couple different place.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Really.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
I was like, this sounds this sounds like you know,
and his hook was in the back of was in
the car yea, the back door, but it is. Yeah,
it is a good kind of reminder to pay attention.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yes, it only takes one thing like that, and also
have to think if you're like you should think of
your car as like the safe zone. So like once
you're in there, and you've locked that door, you're good
to go. So if you can drive with a shirt
on your winch al get the fuck out of them.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
That's what the girl said. She did is she fucking
knew something was wrong. She saw a car idling supposedly,
you know, and then so she fucking drove away, and
when she was alone and safe, she fucking got out
and pulled the thing off. She's like, it didn't make
sense that it was wrapped around my windshield.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Right, yeah, it doesn't because it's not like, oh, it
dropped from you know, it blue onto my windshield. Whatever,
it's if it's wrapped. She was basically taking her context
clues and going, this is a red flag situation.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Betcha this fictitious characters, a murderino.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
She is, what else? I mean, what do we do?
We have anything to report back from? And I would
just say this because we haven't recorded since our tour.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Last episode was our where were We? Our Oakland Show.
The last episode we put on this podcast was that Oakland.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
This podcast, this one right now was Live Oakland. After
Live Oakland, we met a bunch of great people and
the first person we met was a girl who made
us some amazing stuff. I don't have her card or anything,
but did you see in that bag? And I'm not
sure if you went through it? So I got a
toe bag that said my dogs are fiercely private.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Oh and she got me a bag that had a
fucking adorable Siamese cat on it. But I'm totally using
all the time now yep.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
And also I think handmade. I don't know if she
bought them or she designed them herself, but I feel
like she made them. The Barb notebook. Did you get
a Barb notebook? Yes, yes, I think that's her drawing.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
That is amazing.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
So we just want we had a fun conversation with you.
She was very excited, and we just wanted to say
it was just as fun for us to meet you
as as it was for you to meet us, because
she was she was. She was very sweet and very excited.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Everyone's been were so lucky.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yes, we get lots of nice presents and it's funny.
And also in Oakland, most of my family was there.
My cousin Stevie, who's basically like my older brother who
beat me up my whole childhood and then became a
super cool friend and now is basically like my sister
and my sister's family and his family like do everything together.

(18:46):
And it's really awesome because that's the way we all
grew up together. It's like the next generation. I heard
the rumor that he was crying during our show because
he was so proud and like blown away. Like basically
all of my family was like, Oh, we had no idea.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, this is what you were doing. That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, so it was super fun.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Well, Marty fucking heart Stark is going to be at
our Beacon, our New York Beacon show this fucking weekend,
and I have no idea how he's going to react.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Please New York help us and press Marty heart Stark.
He needs to understand that his daughter has done a
good job.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
You'll know him by the fact that he's the only
grown man alone there.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
That's not true. Amir and Seattle. Remember the guy that
made us the macarone? Oh yeah, he like had taken Steven,
He had taken a cooking class. He had made macarons
that had they were pink with red blood spatter on them,
put them in a tupperware and brought them to the show.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, and we knew they weren't poisonous because a girl
in line behind us him had eaten them and she
was like they were great. And you're like, how do
you feel you feel like, okay, yeah, come fine, you're
like our tester. I love Macarens and I got Ted
Bundy cookies. Oh my god, oh shit, wow, I just
said the wrong word. Oh Jesus, did you see that?

Speaker 1 (20:00):
All this just came out of his little cat house.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Okay, because I said the word the cookie.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
He's gonna have to get one early.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
He is a monster.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
He's we've made a monster. Sodhouse Bakery in Seattle are
the ones that made us. I tweeted those.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, they're on the favorite murder Instagram.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Unbelievable Ted Bundy and I would just like to make
point out the fact that it turns into a thing
where it looks like, oh, we love Ted Bundy in
no way. It's like, it's the story we're telling, and
it's I'm not saying to you, I'm just saying in general, Okay,
when on the podcast people are like, it sounds like
we're cheering. It's not about Ted Bundy.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
It's the fascination of the story.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
And yeah, and the crime and the the fact that
that exists, and the icing, and that was an amazing cookie.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
It was like a brown sugar cookie.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It was crazy beautiful art and the shape of.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Washington, probably because we were in Seattle, it was in
shape of Washington. We are at the best people, we
are at the book. Can I talk about how I
took a bite out of it to take a photo
and like, like it seem obvious that it was a cookie,
And then I said, uh, look, I took a bite
out of crime. And then I fucking laughed my ass

(21:20):
off of my own fucking stupid joke.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
God, it gets lonely in that dressing room.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
It's quiet. We don't have groupies.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Oh and that's the place where I put on a
record and it was some lame eighties, not lame, there
were some good songs on it, but there was an
eighties compilation and a stick song came on and it
was dead silent. Me and Georgia like looking down at
our murders or whatever, like getting ready, and then she goes,
oh my god, what is this. She's not even a
good singer. And I am still laughing about that. Very enjoyable.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
I didn't know six you look like it's your turn
to go first, is it? I don't know you were
You look like you were ready, and I was like, oh,
she knows.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Well, and I'm interpreting from that you would like me
to go for I care.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
I don't want to fuck it up that Stephen knows well.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
We fucked it up going live. Oh did you even
do you know? No? Did you see him pick up
his finger like he was trying to shush us?

Speaker 2 (22:16):
He was no, I think it was remember and you
brought the microphone up so perfectly like I'm about to
tell you.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Well.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Also, it was like, does it count from the Oakland
episode or do you count the other live episodes in
terms of whoes? Oh? No, then it's me because I
think Oakland Oakland, so it is me. Okay, all right, whatever,
Well this is now. I'm afraid because I'm ninety nine
percent positive you haven't done this murder but truly, as

(22:47):
I was printing it up and leaving my house, I
was like, this, suns, it's so familiar, and I know
that I've done research on it before, thinking I would
do it before.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Well, I've had to think about looking up murders before,
being like, have I done it before? Not just you. Okay,
so I think.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
So you won't be mad if this is a repeat.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Only if you do it better than I did.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Well I'm pretty sure you didn't. But I know we've
talked about it, and the reason that I wanted to
do it is because I mentioned it the last the last.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Just pick the biggest way, sorry, like in your face.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
No problem, the last.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
I think the last studio recording that we did when
I talked about the Pepa sisters, the French dudes.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
That killed apartment.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yes, this this podcasting studio. So it's another case of
Falia do, which is the shared psychosis, and it's the
story of Ursula and Sabina Erickson.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Have not done it? Oh you talked about it? Yes,
fucking I'm excited about this, Okay, good, all right.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
What a huge goddamn relief, because I was truly like
I was like, I'm printing it. I don't this is
what I've done, Like, I can't go back.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Here if that's like my trigger, and then I'm like
this is over. I can't believe you don't remember I was.
I cried that episode.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, it meant a lot to me too, anyway. All right, Okay,
So in that Sorry if you didn't hear that episode.
So uh a folly I do is uh In French,
it translates as the madness of two and it's a

(24:29):
form of shared psychosis between two people who are extremely close.
The Papas sisters were an older and younger sister. It
is rumored that they were having a sexual relationship, but
they did work for a rumor to be very strict
mistress who they killed so violently that it beats most

(24:53):
of the crimes we talk about modern day.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
It really it doesn't. It doesn't fit with what you know,
what I mean, I'm not matching the punishment and all that.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes, it's it's such extreme overkill that it's nuts, so
bizarre totally. So this is this is a little bit different.
But this, I feel like, is the much more famous
version of this shared psychosis and it is uh. Ursula
and Sabina Rickson. So in May of two thousand and eight,

(25:24):
two Swedish sisters who live in Ireland who are in
their late thirties named Ursula and Sabina Ericson twin sisters
that should be in there. They are twin sisters and
they live in County Cork and they've traveled to there.
They're they're traveling to London, but they've taken they're in

(25:47):
Liverpool when this all goes down taking the bus into London,
or they're right outside Liverpool, I guess. So when they
first arrive in Liverpool or wherever they are nearby it,
the first thing they do is they walk into the
Saint Anne's Street police station and quote unquote report concerns

(26:08):
about Sabine's children. So from the get go of their
like trip to London, there's shit going on. They immediately
go and start talking to the police. Nothing comes of it.
They then they get on this bus, the National Express
coach into London. After a little while on the bus,

(26:31):
they tell the driver they don't feel well. He pulls
over to the roadside services and they get off the bus.
When they try to get back on the bus, they
are clutching these bags that they have with them in
a way that makes the driver suspicious. So he says,
we need to look in your bags before you get
back on the bus, and they're like, no fucking way,

(26:52):
and they're so weird about not letting anybody look into
their bags that the bus driver kicks them off the
bus and have them there fucking hero.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Oh wait, that's kind of shitty. Don't leave women on
the side of the road.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Well, but but I mean, like, so the second I
hear this, I'm like, what is in those bags?

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Totally?

Speaker 1 (27:11):
I need to know what's in those bags immediately.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Oh yes, I'm imagining lots right.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
So so the gas station manager where they have stopped
at beast what they call services in England, is informed
by this bus driver these two are acting weird and shady,
and so I'm not letting them back on the bus.
So that gas station manager calls the police. They come

(27:39):
and talk to Ursula and Sabine, decide they're harmless and leave.
So now Ursula and Sabine are stranded by the M six,
which is a freeway in England, and not the TV
show AM I six, which I thought I was thinking
of the whole time I first started researching this. Have

(28:02):
you ever watched six Nope with Matthew McFadden, who is
mister Darcy Richard arm Anyway, none of it good stuff,
good stuff, good British procedural, good talk. But there's an
M six and then there's an M I six. They're
not the same thing. Karen. Okay, So they're stranded and
the next thing that they know is that there's CCTV

(28:25):
footage of them walking down the central part of the
freeway like that. So they have.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Run across the center median.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yes, they've run across the freeway, so you can see.
Here's the insane part of all this. There is video
footage of this entire incident.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I don't like, I've seen it, and it's like, whenever
there's CCTV footage, I'm like, don't want to watch this.
Something awful's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yes, that's bad too. But there was also base likely
a British version of Cops, which was called Motorway Yes,
Motorway Cops, which was a reality show that they were
filming when this happened. So the entire thing is caught
on an eng Yes, like a TV show. That's why

(29:20):
there's so much, Like you can see all of it.
It's super crazy. Yeah, because did they sign waivers?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Totally?

Speaker 1 (29:27):
There must be because they broke the law. They must
have to or something. So basically, here's what or maybe
they have different rules of production. All right, here's what happened.
They're they're in the central median and they they run
to cross it again. Ursula gets across, but Sabina gets

(29:50):
hit by a car. So they call the Highway Agency
traffic officers, which I imagine is like the highway Patrol, but
I don't know, and I didn't look it up there
I wrote this horrible thing. Uh So when Highway Agency
traffic officers, what I can only imagine are the British

(30:11):
Highway Patrol. So British chips, which in America are crisps
but in England are French fries.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
That's I love where you went with that. That was
so expected. So like Fish and Chips, What if like
Fish and what if there was like a cop show
that the cops were British and there's a guy named
like Andy Fish, and so it's like fish and Chips,
Can someone please make a fucking We'll be the chips.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
So Carrie and Fish is a British detective that's come
to Los Angeles and then.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
He needs the help of two girl podcasters. Chips. Where
the chips though, because we're British cops, we are well
because we have Oh no, no, we're chips. We're highway chips. Yeah,
we're highway Patrol, Right, all right, what the fish could be?
The band fish fish, the bandfish fish and chips leads

(31:05):
cops like they're undercover narks, yes, and they go to
their shows.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
They nark on people at their own dews. They're pot cops. Yeah, guys,
here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
So basically, the British Highway Patrol shows up with this
British reality show called Motorway Cops. Fuck you, they're already
recording it.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
That's so shitty.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
No, no, no, they didn't know what the scenario was.
They showed up on the scene like, well, this is
a day in the life of these cops. Okay, yeah,
it's like that. Okay, so uh so uh as they
So the two twin women are standing on the side
of the road talking to these cops, and the guys

(31:48):
that are that were there first on the scene first
are explaining to the British police who showed up with
the camera crew. They're like, okay, so here's what happened.
I guess they ran across the freeway. We don't know,
really know what they're doing. One of them got hit,
but she's okay, and blah blah blah, and they're explaining everything,
and the two women are standing there while the cops

(32:09):
are talking to each other, and then as the camera's rolling,
Ursula bolts out into the freeway and immediately gets hit
by a truck And it is on The truck is
going fifty six miles an hour. It's on camera. You

(32:32):
can it doesn't there's somebody that's kind of blocking it,
so you don't see like the real awful part.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
But to make it clear, she's not running trying to cross.
She's running two get hit by her car.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Well, there's no it's just like that fucked up part
and Bowfinger where Eddie Murphy has to run across the
freeway for the like special effect. Do you remember that
you don't. Well, here's the thing. It's not like Frogger
words like one come every couple of seconds. It's like
running into onto the five right now, Like there's there's

(33:06):
no pause in the traffic, right. So she ran out
onto a busy freeway intentionally, fuck and she does it
and everybody's like, it's really upsetting because it's all the
cops going like whoah, my god or whatever, and they're
immediately onto their things, calling for an ambulance. Doing this
and while they're doing that, and one of them runs

(33:26):
out to stop traffic whatever. While they do that, then
Sabine runs out into the freeway.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Fuck dude, because there.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
So it's the craziest thing to see because nobody, of course,
once the one goes there, nobody goes, oh, make sure
the other one doesn't go They all go fully shit,
call call an ambulance.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
You would never yeah, who would do that.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
So Ursula's legs so with Sabine runs out of the
freeway and immediately gets hit by a Volkswagen Polo.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
People driving those fucking cars, yes, you ruined their lives.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
I mean the lorry driver. The truck driver that hit
Ursula is on this. You can see the video footage.
And it's the saddest thing because he just keeps going.
She just thrown out in front of us. That's not
the accent, but it's something like that where he says
us instead of me. It's rough and he's just like
kind of staring off, like in total shock. But here's

(34:22):
the thing. So Ursula's legs, she has compound fractures in
her legs. The cop I saw a special on it.
It's called like madness on the motorway or something like that.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
But it's really good, but it's not as good as
fish and chips.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
It is no fish and chips. I'll never never. She
is down and this is so upsetting because her she's
bones are sticking out of her legs. No no, no, no
no no. Yeah, you're not gonna get hit by a
truck in the freeway and have it not be really
gross and upsetting. But meanwhile she's down right, so the

(35:00):
bottom half of her body is not moving and it's
fucked up badly, But the top half of her they
go and they put one of those tinfoil marathon blankets
on her and they're like trying to talk to her.
It's basically like the ambulance is going to be here,
You're okay, And she starts going, I know who you are.
I know who you are, and they're like, just take
it easy, it's okay. She says, uh, I recognize you.

(35:26):
I know you're not real. Oh my god, and the
police are just saying it's okay.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Stayed out.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
She tries. She's trying to get up. So it looks
like a really hideous part of like Walking Dead, where
like the zombies been like attacked from the back, but
they're still dragging themselves. Like she's trying to push herself
up but her legs aren't going to move, and she's
trying to like fight him. She's spitting at him.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
That's scary.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, she's freaking out. So her sister is, So that's Ursula.
Sabina is also on the ground and she looks like
she's out out and there it's there's a female cop
next to her, and I think the second person is
a woman who was maybe a passer by in a car.

(36:12):
I'm not sure, but they're both sitting there and they're
like she's got one of those tinfoil blankets on her
and she and and Sabine is just eyes closed out
and then she comes to and she like almost like
immediately gets up and they're like no, no, no, don't move,
don't move, and she's clearly like dazed, but she starts saying,

(36:32):
they're gonna steal your organs. She's yelling that over to Ursula,
They're gonna steal your organs. And she and then she
they're like no, no, no, stay down, and they're trying
to hold her down and she starts yelling help, call
the police and they're like, we are the police. It's okay,
and they're and so then they're thinking they're on drugs.
But they must be on some kind of drug because

(36:53):
now Sabine is up on her feet and she's trying
to like she's like like trying to get away, and
they're like, you need to calm down, it's okay. She
fucking jumps the rail and runs into the other on
the other side of the freeway. I swear to god,

(37:14):
they thank god, that wasn't as busy on that side,
and I think they may have stopped traffic, like traffic
was totally stopped on this side where Ursula was down
and ship probably and like maybe less traffic. I'm not sure.
But anyway, she runs across. This cop has to run
after her, and he's like, stop, what are you doing.
Don't you know you're hurt? You're hurt, And she's like

(37:35):
and she basically turns turns on him like she's gonna
fist fight him. Oh my god, and she's like and
she's screaming, help, call the police, and they're like, we
are the police, Like it's crazy. So they so basically
it eventually takes six policemen to subdue Sabine. Oh my god,
six policemen to finally get her down and sedate like

(37:56):
they shoot her up. They meanwhile airlift Ursula out to
the hospital. She was spitting at them the whole like
they were fighting the entire time, and the cops that
subdued Sabine said that she had superhuman strength, that both
of them did. So they're thinking they're on probably on
PCP or something like you know, the drugs.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Associated with wet as a kid, or like yeah, you
could like lift a car, totally, do whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Totally, which I just the idea of whatever world that
they were in where they thought what was what was
happening because they still don't know to this day the
logic behind and there's no explanation.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Wait, I was hoping you'd get to the explanation.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Well, I'm just going to spoiler alert for you right now.
They've never explained it in court. When she finally went
to court, all she would say is no comment. They
have never explained to any of.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
It, and there was no drugs in their system.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
So okay, she gets they finally they finally the six
people get her down, sedate her. She goes to the
hospital and then goes directly into police custody in a
place called Stoke on Trent uh So on May nineteenth,
two thousand and eight, she is released from court. Sabina

(39:20):
is released from court without a full psychiatric evaluation, having
pleaded guilty to trespass on the motor roy and hitting
a police officer, which she decked that female police officer.
She punched her right in the face to get away
from her. That's before she ran across for the third
fucking time. So the court sentenced her to one day
in custody, which she had already served. So she leaves

(39:45):
and she begins to wander the streets of Stoke cant
trying to find her sister in the hospital and carrying
her possessions in a clear plastic bag. So she's just
kind of now out on the street.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Let her go.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, So she's that night. Two local guys who are
walking a dog see her and there she comes up
and is very friendly. She's petting the dog. They're all talking.
One of the men is a fifty four year old
man named Glenn hollings Head who is a self employed welder.

(40:19):
He was had been a paramedic and he was a
former RAF worker. The other man was his friend, Peter Malloy,
And so they all start talking and even though she's friendly,
Sabina's acting super weird. So she does stuff like offers.
She's asking them if they know any the directions for

(40:39):
any good bed and breakfasts or any place to stay.
She offers them cigarettes and then takes them back while
they're smoking them, like she's so so this guy, Glenn
hollings Head can tell there's something wrong with her.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
This is the part I This is the part that
I'm like, did we do this one?

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Did we Stephen? Well, this is the murder part.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, so we must have talked about this.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I'm sure we've talked about it, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I don't think we have.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
I'd be a bummer.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Well, who cares. You're doing a great job.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Well, thanks, thank you appreciate it. So she they go
back to his house because he's like, something's wrong with
this lady and she's just wandering out on the street.
So they go back to his house and she's basically saying,
I need to find my sister. She's in a hospital.
So they start I think they said she she They
hang out that night. She was carrying multiple mobile phones

(41:35):
and a laptop. She was constantly looking out the window.
She was super paranoid, and Molloy assumed the friend assumes
that she's run away from an abusive partner the way
she's acting, so they're like, you can stay.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Here, and she's all bandaged up and shit.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Right after being released. I don't but I don't think
when she was up and like basically trying to duke
it out with this cop, she looked fine. Having been
hit by a car two times, she seemed fine and
didn't break any bones, apparently because she wasn't like held
at the hospital. So okay. So anyway, when the friend leaves,

(42:14):
he leaves at shortly before midnight, and Sabina stays at
the house. So the next morning, Holling's head is calling
local hospitals to find Ursula to see where she is.
And at let's see, this would be seven point forty
in the morning. He goes outside to ask his neighbor

(42:35):
for tea bags, and the neighbor says, let me finish
up what I'm doing and I'll come and bring him over,
and so so Glenn walks back into the house. Oh
because he'sa washing his the neighbor's washing his car, so
he's like, oh, when I finish, I'll bring him over.
And then a minute after going inside, he staggers back
outside the house and saying to the neighbor, she stabbed

(42:59):
me and then collapsed on the ground. And when he'd
gone back into the house, Sabina stabbed him five times
with a kitchen knife and he died from his injuries there,
and she ran and the neighbor calls nine nine nine,
which is nine one in England. Not that I had
to tell you that. Does this seem familiar?

Speaker 2 (43:18):
No, I don't think we've done this one.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Okay, because it seems familiar to me, But I know
I've watched a full movie about this on YouTube. You
can and we all can if you want to after this.
So essentially, she goes out of this house with a
hammer in her hand and is hitting herself in the
head with the hammer. Uh huh, so every once in

(43:44):
a while periodically, it says from Wikipedia. So a passing
motorist sees this, gets out of the car and tries
to grab the hammer away from her, and while they're wrestling,
Sabina pulls a roof tile out of her the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Of her pocket? What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (44:06):
You know, when you're wandering around town like this looks
and you just put some stuff in your pocket. She
pulls it out and hits him in the head with it.
He's momentarily stanned, and she runs away.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
But at this point the paramedics from the nine nine
nine call have shown up and they see her and
they chase her, and they end up pursuing her to
heron cross where she jumps off a forty foot bridge
onto the A fifty, which is another freeway or highway.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
I can't stay away from.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
I mean, they love it. They love freeways and highways.
So that in that fall, she does break bones, so
she is not superhuman, and she's taken to the hospital,
and then when she's recovering there, she is put under
arrest and she's later discharged and then charged with murder,

(45:02):
and so so she goes to trial. They hold her
and this is the part that drives me crazy. She
was supposed to go. She's charged with murder on in
September of two thousand and eight, the day she's discharged
from the hospital, and the trial is scheduled for February
of two thousand and nine, but they can't find her

(45:25):
medical records from Sweden, so the trial is then pushed
to September of two thousand and nine. So basically, these
both of these sisters are kind of these mysteries. They
can't find anything about them, They can't figure out what
the deal is on them, which I think is like
so fascinating. Obviously there's mental illness taking place anyway, there's

(45:51):
something really serious going on in reality somehow.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
So she pleads guilty of manslaughter with diminished responsibility, but
at no point during her interrogation or during the trial
does she explain her actions. She only says no comment
to extensive police questioning. Both the prosecution and defense say
that she was insane at the time of the killing,

(46:15):
but sane during her trial, and the defense counsel claims
that Sabine is the secondary sufferer of fali Adu and
that Ursula was the like, the primary, like the out
basically the alpha in the situation, which is easy to
say now that she's off with.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Her crushed legs, and it doesn't diminish your responsibility for
what you've done.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Well, because Ursula had nothing to do with that stabbing, right,
she wasn't there for it. So it's kind of like
it's trying to say, well, she's the one that's just
going along with everything, and it's like, yeah, but Ursula
wasn't there to tell her to do that, And obviously
way more is going on. If that was her, if
that was her behavior when.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
She was by herself, I don't want to know.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
I want to know all of it. Anyway, she's sentenced
to five years in prison. She'd already spent four hundred
and thirty nine days in custody, so she ended up
being eligible for a release in twenty eleven. So the
judge says that she has a low level of culpability

(47:25):
for her actions, but basically that the killing was based
on mental illness. She thought she was in danger. They
thought they were in danger the whole time. They didn't
know where they were, when they were on the freeway,
when all that stuff was taking place. They clearly had
a break from reality and had some kind of a
psychotic break because they were yelling at the police, call

(47:48):
the police, and the police were repeatedly yelling back to them,
we are the police, really, and that just wasn't didn't
seem to be breaking through in any way, and so
I don't think I think there's no explanation. But it
didn't seem like that changed in any significant way by
the time Glenn Hollings had brought her into his apartment. Yeah,

(48:08):
I mean she was like that's that kind of thing though,
of like what are you doing? Like what are you doing?
This is like this is not a healthy person or
an okay person. I mean he was, he was trying
to be a good guy.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
It's what he was doing.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
But but there's a lot of danger in that of
like just taking in a mentally ill person from the
street is is a dangerous thing, even if it's a woman.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Yeah, what was I gonna ask? So did they get out?

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yes? She was paroled and we don't know hold n Yeah,
yeah she got out.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Where is she now?

Speaker 1 (48:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I'm scared. I'm scared now. Uh.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
The and the brother of Glenn uh Hallings, he the
guy that got staffed Holend's head, basically said that he
he doesn't blame her because he clearly understands that she
was her mental state. She probably thought that was something

(49:13):
she needed to do, but she blamed he blames that
system that just released her into the street with a
plastic bag, going like, well, good luck. You clearly ran
across the freeway three times, but now you're just on
your own.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, yeah, without the person you've been with. So it's like,
we don't know if you Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
But so here's the thing that I want to know,
and like, let's just put aside. So because there weren't
drugs in their system, so all those all their theories
of like they're on PCP or this, none of that
proved out, and they I think the reason it's vague
here and hopefully there's other people that know the details,
and we would love to hear that. I would love
to hear them. But like the idea that they're not

(49:56):
they're not on drugs. Clearly there's some kind of a
psychosis taking place, but not so much that they then
get put into any kind of like that that Sabine
gets put into any kind of a mental hospital should.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Have been what is it fifty fifty when they can
hold you for being crazy.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
For some and like, what more do you need than
people across the freeway three times?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, you're not hurt, get out here, right?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
It doesn't. It's very strange. It doesn't make a ton
of sense. But for me, I want to know. So
one of the things they said they were carrying were
a whole bunch of cell phones in those bags. Yeah,
that they didn't want people to see. But the idea
that they thought people wanted to take their organs, like
they thought they were being chased. They thought they needed

(50:38):
a bunch of cell phones. They couldn't show them to people.
They they like that idea. It's like a you know,
paranoid delusion or whatever. But like, what did they what
was the world that they were in. I would just
be so fascinated to know the details of what they
thought was happening.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
It's one of those like mysteries of like you know,
like tam and shoot that that guy you know that
I It's like, well, we ever know? I really want
to know. Maybe the answer someday will be like the
the girls, the girls in Austin who got killed at
the yogurt shot murders, Like I want to know so bad.

(51:15):
Yeah we might never know. Yeah, just so frustrating.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
I feel like I I feel like I should have
done like more back end research. But for me, the
the fascinating part is that all. I mean, it's the
stabbing is an insane like ending and so terrible and
so incredibly tragic, but like what was happening on that

(51:40):
freeway is so crazy and that to me, I got
all caught up in that and the video. I mean,
watching that.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Video was just you watched it.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
I did, because it's like it was.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
The whole story totally. I understand.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
It's crazy, though it doesn't. It's like your mind can't
comprehend it because it's a person running into trap.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Now I can't.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
It's crazy, Wow, really really crazy. I want to know
also if Ursula being separate from if because they were separated,
if anybody like snapped out of it and then was like,
oh this is we were we were?

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I mean, but you can't blame it on that. I can't. Like,
it's not real, the fucking like the connection that they
had that made them do this, you know what I mean,
Like they're just both crazy.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Right, but it's real.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
I'm sorry. They're both mentally ill, yes, but separately they're
mentally ill. It's not like one is causing the other one.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Right, Although that's kind of like the what they say
halfen Yes, because the other the Gibbons sisters, who were
those who are those twins who lived in Wales and
they grew up they were like some of the only
black people in Wales. So they grew up and they
were terribly bullied and abused. So they didn't talk to
anybody but each other, and they had a secret language.

(52:59):
That's so this is basically it's the same thing. Yeah,
they had a thing where when they were in jail
because they started lighting fires and so they went to jail.
They went to a mental hospital because they didn't talk
to anybody and they only talked to each other. But
they would do a thing where they would find one
if standing frozen in a certain pose in her cell,
and they would go to the other cell on the

(53:21):
other side of the jail and she would be standing
in the exact same pose.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Oh my fucking god, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
So there is something too, like the mental connection of twins.
I know there's something there, because like, how did that happen? Yeah,
unless it was like, oh, every day we do this thing.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Right at this time, maybe I don't know, or is
that you know, someone exaggerating at the mental hospital told
someone that and that got a little bigger and bigger,
and sure.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Like it's its own creepypasta. Yeah, well be kept. But
every reporter there was. A reporter went and spent time
with them, who said they were just incredibly eerie. You know,
it's like two people that don't feel the need to talk,
who would just sit there that also are like, you know, twins.
And one of them finally said to that reporter, the
only way I'm getting out of here is if one

(54:15):
of us dies and then one did die of an
expanded heart or something like kind of for no reason,
like in a way where it's just one died and
then the other.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Got out and she lived a normal life, right, huh,
Or at least she's got out and living her life
outside of mental hospital. If you could be a twin,
would you be a twin? I just want to be
when I was a kid. You what I wanted to
be when I was a kid. I mean, I think
it would be fun, it would I bet it would
be hard to like look at yourself all the time.
Part of me was just like I kind of want

(54:46):
to know what I look like objectively, you know what
I mean? Yes? And do you ever like look at
photos and be like Okay, if I saw that girl,
what would I think? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
I mean, the funny thing to me is that I
can take such insanely bad pictures and I can take
really good pictures, and then it's like, well, what is
the I guess it's just a happy medium. And that's
how it is with everybody.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
It's so weird that yeah, am I gonna get yeah everything?
What if you and I start fucking what is.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
It called morphing into each other? Follying, folly you doing? Yes,
let's do that on the road. Okay, that'd be kind
of fun.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
Let me be fun.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
It'd be fun to just oh, run and just get.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Your yeah, like, you make my decisions for me, please,
I'm done making decisions.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yea. My decision is to pull someone's eyes out.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Sorry, sorry, my decision is to run into the freeway,
all right. I love when I like think of am
like when I'm like, what murder should I do? And
then I'm like, oh, yeah, I've fucking been fascinated by
this one for years. I'm gonna do it, you know,
And it's like not when you just randomly fine, so
mm hmm. Mel Ignato is a fifty year old man.

(56:01):
He's a divorced father of three grown kids, and Brenda
Sue Shaeffer is thirty six. She's a medical assistant, and
they had been in a relationship for two years and engaged,
and then in nineteen eighty eight, Shaeffer decides to break
it off, and she tells a friend that Mel was
sexually abusive and by all accounts, everyone says he's controlling

(56:26):
and he's a sadistic motherfucker. That's what I wrote. So
Brenda goes missing after deciding to break it off with Mel,
and her car is found on the highway real close
to her home, close enough that I had broken down,
she could have walked home. It's been broken into, the
radio stolen, and family and police, though quickly suspect Mel

(56:50):
in the disappearance, but they aren't able to locate any
witnesses or physical evidence linking him, and they can't find
Brenda her body, so they interview him to clear his
name so he can clear his name by testifying before
a grand jury, and randomly he mentions the name of

(57:12):
his ex girlfriend of ten years, Marianne Suore, which randomly
brings her to the investigation for the first time. They
hadn't even known, like she wasn't on the radar at all.
So the police interview mary Anne and eventually she confesses
to helping plan the murder of Brenda, and of course,
out of that, she gets a plea bargain that she'll

(57:35):
only get charged with tampering with evidence. So Marianne tells
police that Mel had convinced her to help him plan
and carry out Brenda's murder. They spend They had spent
several weeks making extensive preparations for Brenda's murder, including quote

(57:58):
scream testing Marianne's house and digging a grave in the
woods behind her house. Mel even keeps a checklist of
the things he was going to do to Brenda on
the night he killed her. And these photos of her.
You know, I watched a couple episodes of all these shows,
and he looks like, you know, he's fifty years old.
He looks like a dad. He looks like a normal dude,

(58:21):
normal eighties dad. She's thirty six, and she's this pretty,
you know, sweet looking girl, a fucking sweet honesty.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Ad, you know, and it's his girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
They're engaged and they were together for two years. She
had been divorced, and he's kind of like showering her
with gifts and it just gets weirder and weirder though,
and her family says in the beginning, like, we just
didn't understand why she was with him at all and
didn't trust him from the beginning. But I think you know,
he was a sociopath, so he was fucking charming at first.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, he made her feel special, right.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
So on September two third, nineteen eighty eight, Marianne tells
the police that Mel lures Brenda to the house under
the guise of her returning some jewelry that had belonged
to Mel that I think he must have bought her.
And when Brenda gets in the house, Mel pulls a
gun and locks the door, and Marianne is there this
whole time. He forces her to strip, then blindfolds, gags

(59:22):
and binds her, and he uses the list of all
the things he was going to do to her and
proceeds to go down the list doing each of them.
He ties her to a coffee table and he rapes, sodomizes,
and beats her, all the while having Marianne take photos
of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (59:42):
What in the fuck, this is someone you were with
for two years. You have grown children, Like, who the fuck? Yeah,
let's see. Marianne says she never joined in and she
just took photos.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Oh oh okay, Mary yea, then okay, you just took
the photos of a vicious attack. He then even grosser.
It's even grosser. But it's not it's not see that,
you know, like you're standing by taking photos. Get out, lady.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
I can't even watch a fucking bar fight. Like I
love a bar fight.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
What about it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
I just like it's a very It's like watching attention.
It's from going to college in Sacramento. They happened all
the time. Basically bars would clear out and then people
would just stand around watching people fight until the cops came.
And then girls would like cry and like you know,
drunk girls'd be like, if you just be quiet, it'll
be over faster and then we'll all go home. It's

(01:00:47):
my favorite. It's just like male It's it's you know,
eighties male expression show. They're just like, I'm not a
football player and I'm not a frat boy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
I don't know what to do. I'm I'm all pent
up with my fucking testosterone and anger.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Me and my feeling. I have all these feelings and
I'm not allowed to have them. And then I listen
to a lot of Boston so here, I'm gonna punch
you right in the face.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
I saw a couple of vicious fights before, so like,
I feel like I have this aversion to them because
they were too awful. Yeah, I don't like, I can't,
I can't look.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
That's amazing. I love that. I love that. Anyways, back
to the horror. Okay, um, she's taking photos, says, she
never joins in. He then takes Mel then takes Brenda
back to the back bedroom and kills her by putting
a rag soaked in chloroform over her mouth until she dies,

(01:01:42):
poor fucking baby. And then Marianne helps Mel cover up
the murder by including burying Brenda in a hole they
dug behind behind the house so they bury her. Marianne
so after her admission. Fourteen months after Brenda's disappearance, Marianne
leads the investigators the grave site. They find Brenda's badly
decomposed body buried there. Of course, there's no DNA evidence

(01:02:06):
since the body had been decomposed. But that's in nineteen
eighty eight, you know what I mean? Like, I feel
like now they could have fourteen months. Isn't that long
to be buried? Right? Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
I feel like these days they could get it in
so many ways. Totally yeah, But back then it was
like yeah, yeah, did a totally different story.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Yes, So the investigators convinced Marianne to wear a wire
to talk to Mel and she tells them the FBI
is hounding her. She's afraid the property behind her house
is going to be sold and developed. And he's on
the tape reading her for letting the FBI quote rattle
her and told her that he didn't care if they
dug up the whole property because quote, that place we

(01:02:44):
dug is not shallow. So, based on this recording, as
well as a little physical evidence from his home, prosecutors
charge mel Ignatau of Ignato with the murder in nineteen
ninety one. And then, okay, let's see. So during one

(01:03:05):
of the recorded conversations, when mel says that place we
dug is not shallow, he says, besides that one area
right by where that site does not have any trees
by it. The defense attorney convinced the jury that Mel
said safe and not sight, and so it led the

(01:03:27):
jurors to conclude that the discussion involved burying a safe,
not a body, so instead of sight they thought it
would they convinced the jury that it was safe, like
they fucking buried a safe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
But didn't Marianne already tell them everything they needed to know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Well, so, so Marianne testifies, she's a star witness, but
she dresses like skimpy, laughs the whole time during her testimony,
and they argue. The defense argues that mary Anne killed Brenda,
not Mel, and so him saying that thing about a

(01:04:03):
safe doesn't implicate him in the murder. WHOA yeah, so,
and she had been convicted of fraud before, and so
her credibility is totally underminded, undermounded, underminded, undermined, undermined in
the eyes. That was a joke.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
I knew it wasn't that, Stephen. Don't write that down, Stephen,
I see you write that down undermound.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
That's my new word, oh, I wrote her, all of
which undermines are credible bit credibility in the eyes of
the stupid idiot jury. Then I said, the stupid idiot
jury found Malignato not guilty on all seven counts.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Whoa yep.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Then the judge, Martin Johnstone, he's so embarrassed by the
verdict that he writes a letter of apology to the
Schaeffer family saying, if it was just me and not
a jury, I would have fucking put this guy away forever,
which is like pretty amazing. Yeah. And then an interesting
random fact, so it was this was it took place
like December twenty first or so, And it turns out

(01:05:05):
that when a trial, the closer a trial takes place
to Christmas, juries are more likely to acquit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
That makes sense, it's not fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yeah. Is it because they want to get the fuck
out of trial or is it because they have like
they have feelings of you know, when you get off
fuzzy and cozy during the holidays and you're like love
and family and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Yeah, I bet it's like, I bet it's a bit
of both, depending on the personality. But it's like normally
where you wouldn't have either at play, Yeah, you have
now both at play, right, So whether it's the person
that's like, but I just watched this Hallmark movie.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yeah, fuck, And like in the fucking courtroom. There's like
a Christmas tree in the corner, and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
They're like, people are looking over there, like I've got
to go shopping now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
They put a fucking Santa hat on. Mel. You're sitting
at the stop. I'm just saying, that's what they should do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
They bake cookies, so it just smells nice.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Immediate mistrial. Uh think they's just no, they just spray
air freshmen. They smells like bake cookies.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Spray cinnamon glade. Don't you love it? Okay? Innocent?

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Mmmmmm okay. So six months later, okay, then so he's
out this motherfucker. Six months later he sells his house
because he needs funds to pay for his legal bills.
And the house is like, he's not a fucking trashy person.
He has a beautiful house. He looks like a normal guy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
I argue he is a trashy person.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
I mean clearly, you know what I mean, Like you
wouldn't know. Like when I was like researching it, I
was like, oh, I thought of like making a murderer dude, yes, right,
who just like lives on a you know, farm or whatever. No,
it's like a lovely tutor house and he is your
fucking dad's best friend. Yeah, in the eighties. Yeah, so

(01:06:50):
he sells the house, he needs to pay for the
legal bills. Hmmm. So a carpenter is laying a carpet
layer is working on the house. He pulls up a
length of carpet in the hallway. Underneath that carpet is
a floor event. Inside that floor event is a plastic
bag taped to the inside of the vent Ooh. Inside

(01:07:11):
the bag is the jewelry that Brenda had brought over
the night of as well as three rolls of undeveloped film.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Oh shit, And he grabbed that bag and ran.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Nope, because he didn't own the fucking house anymore. Someone
else owned it. Oh you mean the guy the carpenter.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Yes, he did, Okay, good, okay, No, and now very silently,
he nailed in some wood and covered that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
He opened all and he exposed the film. Anyways, that's
the nand of my story ran by. Yeah, so the
fucking cops get those three rolls of film developed. It's
like one hundred and eighty photos of start to finish
Marianne's i mean, Brenda's torture and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Murder taken by Marianne.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
So everything she said, was don't try Mel. Holy well,
Mel's face isn't in the film, but his body hair
patterns and match it perfectly. Oh good, okay, and match
her story? Yes, like she wasn't fucking lying. She's a
fucking monster. Yes, so she was lying. Hey, guess what, Karen?
What ever heard of double jeopardy?

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
I you sure?

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
How? Oh? Well, here it is to ruin your night?

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Because of double jeopardy. Mel Campy retried for Brenda's murder.
He's brought a child for trial for perjury based on
his grand jury testimony because it's like all they could
fucking do. He knew he couldn't be retried for murder,
so he confesses in court at his perjury trial to
the whole fucking thing, turns to schaeffer, to Brenda's brothers,

(01:08:43):
and says, but she died peacefully. Yeah. He gets an
eight year sentence for perjury service five of those years
credit for two years that he was served, and another
you're off for good behavior, you get can we look
at your whole life of behavior and know that you
murdered someone? And then so that doesn't so you fucking

(01:09:07):
not getting in a fight at the mess hall doesn't
take get time off your fucking sentence. You'd think one
would think, excuse me, so sentenced, Okay, good behavior. He's out.
He gets another thing, another charge, another thing for perjury,

(01:09:27):
a different thing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
So they're still going after him in whatever way they can. Yeah,
like they do on Law and Order.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, well get him for a good day, right, So
he gets he's an another trial for perjury, nine years
for that. Released from prison but the second time. In
December two thousand and six, he goes home to Louisville,
living at home four miles from the house where he
murdered Brenda, who two years later, September one, two thousand

(01:09:54):
and eight, Mel allegedly falls off a ladder, cuts his
arm on a glass coffee table. Again the coffee table, Oh,
slowly leads to death. Yay, what he's seventy years old?

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Okay is I'm sorry? So it's a ladder inside the house.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
I know if it's a ladder, but you know, he's
like hanging or painting on a standing doing something. Yeah,
falls off of it and it's Some places say he
breaks through the glass and cuts his arms, some say
his head. But either way, like there was like blood
marks where he like climbed around the house and like
couldn't And so people are like, did he.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Really fall, like or did someone like basically go smash
his head into a glass.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Coffee table into a coffee table, which is the same
thing he fucking tied Brenda to when she came over somewhere.
I said, that's the same coffee table. But I don't
think that's true, and that would be yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Well that would mean he would put that coffee table
into storage.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
But it wasn't his coffee table again with it was
Marianne's house, Okay, although I think he owned it, I
don't know something. So he's fuck this piece of shit
is dead at seventy. In two thousand and eight, Mary
Anne served three years with five year sentence for uh,
you know, bad photography Like yes, the worst dies from

(01:11:14):
cancer in a hospice at age fifty four.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Whoa that's young, Yeah, yeah, yes, that's her body turned
on herself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
They were like, we're shutting this shit down.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
She's a monster. Like if you watch her talking and
see her, she's a monster.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
I don't understand. Like he's dating he's a fifteen year
old man dating a thirty six year old or thirty
four year old. Why doesn't he just break up with her?
Why does he have to kill her? Hes have to
like rape her and demean her and what's the deal.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
In the worst way possible? And he planned it for weeks,
like he wanted to do this so badly to her,
and it was like two years. I mean, I just
don't understand.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
He's a beast. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
He went back and interviewed like ex girlfriends, his ex wife,
and by all accounts, he's a sexual sadist. Oh, he's
a fucking monster. Like it's surprising that this is the
first time he did it. Did that, you know? Yeah,
especially because he planted like at fifty he kills the
first one, you know. Yeah, he had tortured his other
girlfriends like this before and they all broke up with him,

(01:12:22):
or they ended the relationship somehow.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Or there's just ones that they don't know about.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Also, it's then it actually explains Marianne a little bit
more because those because of how like weird spangoliish, those
types of men can be where suddenly you're doing things
that you would never do. Maybe I don't know, I know,
we've talked a lot of shit about Marianne. But but
I'm just saying, oh, she's a victim too, in that
way where it's just one more person in his weird

(01:12:48):
chain of the way he uses women and what he does.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
To womens them against each other.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Yes, where it's just like, well, you're the special one,
so hold this camera. I mean, like, god, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Just or she's terrified him because she's had ten years
of fucking psychological and physical abuse from him as well,
and sexual abuse that you know she was with him
for ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Yeah, she's maybe in so deep.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
Yeah, and brainwashed it brainwashed PTSD. Ugh, it's so ugly.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
That's gross.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
I wish I had a positive spin on it at
the end, but no, I don't think you can spin
that one right one. They're not that one, poor Brenda.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Yeah, that's awful.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
Yeah, we have a murder from a friend. Should we
do kurts? Oh yeah, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Okay, we haven't done a we haven't done a friend
hometown murder in a while.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Yeah, And we have a friend Kurt Roneller, who I'm
sure you guys know. He's a hilarious comedian and actor.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
And he called called one in, he.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Called one in. He has a special, his comedy Specials,
coming out this Friday on Comedy Central at midnight. He
also has a podcast on Audible with his wife Lauren
is a good friend of mine called Wedlock coming on April.
So check those out. Let's I have listened to this.
Let's hear Kurtz right.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Okay, hey, it's it's Kurt. So here's my here's my
murder story. I this was a teacher that taught at
my high school, Christian Brothers Academy. It sounds very fancy,
but it wasn't very fancy. It was just an all
boys Catholic school in lind Croft, New Jersey. He was

(01:14:34):
the Latin teacher a few years after I stopped going there,
But the Latin teachers historically had been lunatics. This Latin
teacher that was there when I was there was a monk,
like a brother. Most of the teachers were brothers and
they were all like weirdos, but he was like the
weirdest of the weirdos. He wouldn't allow you to have
a pen in class or hold a pen and when

(01:14:57):
we and he also would just always constantly talk about
his nieces little cupcake breast, not getting obsressed about the
met I heard many times about her little cupcake breast.
He was taken out of the position of being a
Latin teacher because a kid in the class was holding
a pen and so he punched him in the mouth.
And then they're like, okay, you don't get to teach anymore.

(01:15:17):
And then that was taken over by my good friend Steve,
who was the Latin teacher for a little while. He
couldn't take it. It drove him crazy. He left that,
he stopped teaching and went to live in Italy to
become a stone sculptor, a marble stone sculptor. And that's
when this guy, this guy Matt, took over as the
Latin teacher. With teaching Latin the Christian Brothers Academy drove

(01:15:39):
him so crazy that he just started getting into smoking
crack apparently in the afternoons in a place that my
aunt used to live called Ocean Grove. And Ocean Grove
is a Christian community, so Christian that in the eighties
on Sunday they would close off the town to cars.
He apparently Jesus doesn't like you to drive a car
on Sunday. And so my aunt used to live there

(01:16:01):
and she used a babysit me and she since become
a nun. So I'm just trying to express to you
how Christian and Catholic. This whole situation is. This guy
works at Christian Brothers Academy. He's smoking crack with a
woman whose last name is Weed, so Ms. Weed and
this guy Matt are smoking crack together on a Sunday afternoon,

(01:16:21):
and then around six thirty pm they get into an argument.
He murders her with a knife. He stamps her nine
times in the neck after. I guess there was also
some beating involved. It's very horrific. And then he just
walked out down the streets to Ocean Grove. So near
minutes after people called the cops because they heard him screaming.

(01:16:43):
They just found him wandering down the streets of this
Christian town, just bloody, having murdered this woman they just
loved to smoke crack with on a Sunday afternoon. This
is at six thirty pm, so whenever they started smoking crack.
I have no idea, but that's what my high school
with duty.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Jesus, that's insanity.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Is it weird that I never want to hang out
with Kurt again? Because I'm terrified.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
I love the visual of a guy covered in blood
walking through a town where you're not allowed to drive
on the weekends.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
It sounds like it sounds like, yeah, there was like
it sounds like a Twilight Zone town. Yes, that's so
perfect that then a guy suddenly the image of the
opposite of that walking through town.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
Also, what was driving people so crazy about that Latin class?

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Fucking Latin man. There's some there's some like devil shit,
devil shit in there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
It's devilish.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
I can believe they taught it there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Please watch Kurt bronell Or special Trust Me, which airs
this Friday, March third, at midnight on Comedy Central.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Uh wow, that was her. That was quite the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
That was that was dark.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
That one had something for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Yeah, mostly murder for everyone and wanted murder. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Oh wait, let's say something something good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Okay, you go first.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Okay, Well mine is really big. But I also can't
super get into detail about it. But I'll just say this.
I had a year, a probably three year problem get
resolved on Friday afternoon that has caused me so much
stress and panic and shame. And it's a financial thing

(01:18:32):
that's boring in detail, but I will tell you this,
if you're in a place where you are fucked financially
and you're worried and you're scared, it will end. And
I swear to god I was. I've been in this
place before, but this is like a way, way, way,
bigger version. And it really felt hopeless at times, and
it's over and like and part of the reason it's

(01:18:54):
over is because of this podcast. And I'm so grateful
that we are doing it and that we have it.
It means the world to me, and I feel crazy
lucky that we actually get to do this as a
job too. It's so fun. And also just the fact
that now this truly it's like a five hundred pound
weight has been taken off my shoulders for you. It's

(01:19:15):
really quite nice.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
I had no idea how rough it was until it
ended and you told me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
I know, I couldn't tell anybody about it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
It was so silly. Please tell me I can handle
fucked up shit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Well, yeah, no, I know. It's just that thing where
I think it's like I think everybody has, it's some
version of it where it's like the problem where you
think it's this means some terrible thing about me around it. Yeah,
or just like it's failure, it's it's I've failed, and
now everyone's going to know I failed. But guess what,
everybody fails. Everybody fails on all different levels every day

(01:19:49):
and we're all trying to make ourselves feel better about it.
So don't beat yourself up and just know the end
there's always there's always a silver lining. There was always
light at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Yeah. I had in the same kind of idea of
that what you just said. I had after going to
therapy since I was a child, like after like around five.
I had the most amazing session today of I think
ever and she said to me halfway through, I know
you're an atheist, Georgia, but you you worship at the

(01:20:20):
altar of doubt and it fucking blew my mind. And
so we're working on that now and how to get
passed out. And it was this switch today that I'm
so it made me hopeful for the first time in
a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
When I met you when we were at Jones Lard
tonight today. Yeah, you absolutely seemed different. Really, Yes, Well,
you had, first of all, like the big smile because
somebody who was telling you a story about murder. There
was a murder story happening when I arrived. But then also, yeah,
just that kind of you had almost like the like
almost the eyes of like wide eyed wonder kind of

(01:20:58):
thing of like, oh my god, you can look at
the world in a different way, it felt.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
And so because of that, I want to say, like,
and I know it's so people try to find therapists
and they're new at it, and they're like this didn't
work for me, or I didn't like this person, and
it just is a lifetime of it. And I've had
so many fucking therapists in my life, and a handful
of been really good. Yeah, and the one I have,
luckily is right now is amazing. And you just have

(01:21:21):
to keep keep trying, keep trying, because you'll find you'll
find it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
It is almost a little bit like dating. It has
to be a person that you want to spend that
time with that you want to barf all your worst
stuff onto.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Yeah that under that still.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
Doesn't make you feel bad. No, they can't make you
feel bad.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
And this is the first time she's ever said something
straight up to me like that, and I fucking appreciate it.
So much. And this is after a year of beginning
to know me and that was just life changing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Yeah, that's a good thing to realize and understand. There's options.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Yeah yeah, and uh, fuck man, I feel lucky too
for this podcast. I can't believe this my life. I'm
so we're pretty lucky. So lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Knock on, knock on. Would thank you Steven, Thanks for Stephen,
Thank you so much for really bringing us together and
making this podcast happen.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
Part of this. Thank you, step of the procast.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Flushing Stephen, Stephen, you can't be here if you can't
take a compliment.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
I'm learning writing Stephen about not taking our.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
It's better if I yell at you. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
This feels like home.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Yeah, well thanks, I know I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Thanks for joining us, you guys and listening and.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Uh and participating and guess what what he knows already.
I know you're jumping your line, Elvis, stay sexy.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
And don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Bye?