95 - Gesus

In this week’s episode, Karen and Georgia cover the Amish Serial Killer and three mysterious disappearances. Plus a special surprise from Dallas.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Okay, let's get zen.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yeah, let's get real zen. Put your hands in prayer
position and rub them together a little bit, just make
a little bit of friction. This is ASMR. Now that's right, and.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Get ready for and throw the dice.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
This is my favorite murder featuring Georgia Hartstark and featuring
Karen Kilgera with a.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Sidebar element of Stephen Ray Morris right over there on
the ground where you expect him to be, and he
always is.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm cozy, he's cozy, he's there. I would never be
cozy sitting in a position that Stephen. I've oppered him
a chair, can we can? We go ahead?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
And it's how he likes it. Yeah, he's like a
yoga he must be.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well he's fucking young, and you can set however you want.
You're young seven. I don't even know what it pass.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
He's very young.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
All the cartilage and his knees is still there. Nothing
is broken.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hi. We're back from from our amazing leg of the
tour down in Texas.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
I knew that would be a special I knew that
trip would be a special trip.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
It was so good.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
I mean, they all really are in their own way
and that sounds cheesy, but it really is true. And
these ones were great. They were just so great. Yeah,
in every way. I mean, why name them, right, but
they just were many ways, so all the ways, there's
so many ways you can just imagine. Somebody did make
me and I'm sorry, I don't know your name offhand,

(01:46):
but it was the second night in Dallas and a
woman came up and just handed me if your beautiful
silver box, and inside she made a box full of
moth cookies. So it was the box of moths that
I fear, but in cookie form, which I don't feel
year right, and it I think it may have erased
my phobia of getting a box of moths in the mail.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
It happened, and you were happy about it that no
one got hurt. They were delicious cookies. Are you scared
of dead getting dead moths in the mail?

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Or live mon live like opening a box and having
moths flye.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Into my face, up in your face right like silence
of the lamb style. Yes, And it's is it the
moths also? Or is it or gest store? Is it
also the connotation of what would mean for one to
take the time to send you a box of moths?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, how creepy specifically that would be, although I'm not
exactly sure whenever we were talking about that, it just
came out of my mouth right and.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Of this fucking podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
This is called like a journey into the subconscious that
we never want to talk about again, well or remember
the So.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
We were both we were in Dallas and we met
in the lobby of the hotel and when we were
like leaving for the show, and we were both like,
does someone knock on your door and hand you a present?
And I had been freaked out because I got a
knock on the doors, Like who the fuck is it?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
It was like the.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Constant, like a whatever, A guy that worked there, a
guy that worked there, which like, you don't want a
dude fucking knocking at your door anyways when you're alone.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Out of the shower.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
And he was like he, you know, said someone had
given a present. So I opened the door, which I
don't know what I was thinking, handed me a gift
bag was And then I was like, Okay, someone knows
where I'm staying now and this is creepy and scary
and I don't know who this is.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yes, And then happened to you too.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
It happened to me and I this is the part
of the brag that I want to tell the most,
which is that our rooms were so big and beautiful
at that hotel that someone would knock on the door.
This happened to me multiple times, and it would take
me so long to get to the door that they
would either knock again or try to open the door.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
No.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Well, but it would be like say turned down, or
the meat or something like that. Because I always forget
to put that leave me alone thing on the door.
I always forget. I always want to hear.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Really, Jens and I, fucking this is how compatible we
are the moment we don't close the door to the
hotel room before putting the leave me alone.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
I got to adapt to that, oh my god, because
it's there's nothing worse than when a person comes into
your room. They don't want to be there when you're there,
and you it's like you're being a creep by having
not put the sign on them totally. So anyway, the
guy knocked, I was walking over, knocked again, and I said,
who is it? No one answered. Knocked again, I said
who is it? But it was close enough to I

(04:20):
thought maybe it was you joking around and I didn't
have pants on. So then I was like, oh, I'm
just going to open the door as our funny joke
of opening the door no clothes on.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
But then that's actually a thing that's happened. I love
surprising with no clothes on. It's my favorite joke.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
It's pretty good one. But I so I stood behind
the door, opened it. It was a dude and he
was like, here's a present for you. He didn't say anything,
but here's a present for you. And I I kept
the door so closed that I basically only could fit
my arm out, grabbed the bag, pulled it in, and
slammed the door. I didn't say thank you, didn't say anything,

(04:57):
and it was really scary. Well then, of course meet
the woman who dropped those things off.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, She's like, oh, did you guys get my bag
that I sent you the present? And immediate and I
was terrified and we were like, how do we look
at this? I'm gonn yell at the front, ask of
what's going on? Did she call around Texas looking for
the fucking right?

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Our minds of course went in fucking yeah, insane in
the way where if other people could hear us they'd
be like, calm down, assholes, like this is not that
big of a da I don't know. Well, but when
the explanation finally came, it was like really embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
First I saw her and she.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Was just like the sweetest blonde textan like angel face.
So I'm like, all right, if this is the girl
who's gonna kill us, It's like, okay, it's a pretty
good way. She's fine, she's sweet, she'll do it nicely.
But then she was like, did y'all get my present?
I saw Vince in the parking lot of my hotel,
and so I sent it up like she just knew
that we were staying there in.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
The most natural, non evasive, invasive way possible. Right, she knew,
and this so sent us up some. And also it's
the thing that everyone we were going crazy for and
everyone into XS. We learned that there's a there's a
gas station called BUCkies that's that's beloved, and BUCkies makes

(06:08):
a product, Steven, I don't know if you know this already.
They make a product called beaver Nuggets that are essentially.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Cocaine dipped in fucking like maple sugar. Some shit.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, there's a pork grind element but also kind of
like puffed puffed corn cereal but then maple like coating.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, and something about it like they don't look it's
almost got a cotton candy element.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yes, because it's just like sugar and air.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
But we were eating them like lunatics, so many of those,
and that's what she sent up. It was like the
loveliest gift of like welcome to Texas.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
We're like, we're like propelling down the side of the
building to avoid being in the front. It is so crazy,
but it's just that.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Thing of like, you know, can we do one last
on the road story really quick, because it's my favorite
of this The Chicks who's sister and my sister? Yes, okay,
So the after live shows we do like a meet
and greet thing where we meet so many cool people
like listeners and take photos with them, and a lot
of them give us presents like boxes of chocolate, of candy,

(07:13):
moths or whatever. Yeah. So one girl when came in medicine,
she was so nice and she was like, you guys
got me through some really hard times, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
We're like great, okay, and then we go to take
a photo with her and as the photo is about
to be taken.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, there's like that moment of silence where we all
turn to the camera and are like fake smile, do
a weird pose. And right in that moment, she goes,
I'm gonna do what the lady did, and then George
is gonna do what she did. Okay, okay, So the
lady goes, my sister's dying, and Georgia laughed just like
louder like. Georgia burst out laughing.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
I was cracking up because when you're in a horrified
position sometimes you just laugh.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, and it was so quiet, it was like els
like to give me the tension of like, what the
fuck are we gonna do? Sister's dying. My sister's dying.
So then Georgia laughs. Then the pictures that Karen's sober. Georgia,
I didn't say it like that.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
You were kind of like, don't do that.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Well, I was just like that you admonished.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Me, You've never admonished me before. Well, you were laughing,
I said her sister. I did not say you were
in the wrong at all. I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
So I turned to the woman after the photo, We're like,
oh my god, both those like, are you okay, what are.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
You talking about.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
We're like, tell us my contact turned, you know, circle
up a moment. This is a thing, and we're here
for you. We get it, and then she goes she
is so jealous that she's not here, right.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
She just dying.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Used the wrong phrasing right in the moment of silence,
so it's it felt like she was basically saying, I'd
like to tell you this very sad.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Thing, sister is dying.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
My sister's dying, My sister's dying, dying of how she
meant to say it. Yeah, so now we know how
I react in moments of fucking in horror, and now
we know I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
It was hilarious, that's about it. It was super And
also she thought it was kind of funny. Once we
were like, well thought your sistar was dying, and then
she was like, oh no, no, she's fine.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
We were like s maad at her.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, because that was a lot. Okay, I do have
a correction corner, And this really is only for the
people that were at our second show in Dallas when
I did the story of Terry Hoffman, who was this
crazy cult leader. It was one of my favorites murder
stories I've ever done. But at the end, I said

(09:38):
she died in nineteen ninety seven, which.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Is very odd.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
I like pulled it out because I didn't have it
on the page and I'd forgotten to write. I had
some things notes I wanted to make, and I just
said her So I just wanted to tell everybody she
actually died in twenty fifteen, at age seventy seven.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
That is a big difference in time. She just kept going.
She was just like not giving up on this cult dream.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
No, isn't it all? And she she that book that
she made was The Color of Money, The Power of
Color Money Force, or the or The Color of Money
Power Force is some bullshit book about like and we
talked about it that night. Whatever color you wear is

(10:20):
going to bring your money in different degrees.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
No, how about a fucking vintage orange clown blanket. It's
gonna bring me a lot because that's what I wear
right now.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Look, there's a fifty dollars bills stuffed underneath your butt.
Oh no, that's just where I keep my money.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Oh oh, just stuff right under your one cheek. I
have a second corrections corner. Okay, this is for everybody.
Last week I said that the director of wind River
was a woman, and it certainly is not a one
off of this. I'm not sure exactly where I got it,
but it was the movie that I was talking about.
I watched it on the plane and it was really good.

(10:55):
It was about the murder on like a Native American
land and it was Uh, so I said, it's Taylor.
I'm gonna look it up really quick. The director's name,
uh is Taylor Sheridan, and that's a man.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Taylor isn't interchangeable name.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
It is, But I feel like I should have at
least glanced at a Wikipedia. But I think I thought
I remembered a female woman of love, like a Native
American female woman getting getting accolades, and so I kind
of really combined it all in my mind.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Anyway. Okay, props to Taylor Sheridan because it's such a
good movie.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Okay, I'll watch it. Can I tell you something yes?
From the Internet?

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yes, Okay. I found an article recently. Hmm. It says, uh,
it's from a place. It's a d C one.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Oh one is is like a is the name of
the website and it says weird news the voice behind
many best selling books on tape is actually a serial killer.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
No.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
So it turns out that in the eighties, a blind couple,
showing their appreciation to the prisoners of the California Medical
Facility state prison who have voiced, they started a program
to have the inmates of their voice audiobooks.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay it was.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
The program was then run by our friend Ed Kemper. No,
so it's called Volunteers of Vacaville or the Blind Project.
They were recorded thousands of books, bestsellers, textbooks, mysteries, science fiction,
western Western's, children's books, and cookbooks onto tape cassettes. From

(12:42):
nineteen thirty seven to eighty seven, Kemper had spent over
five thousand hours in the recording booth and had more
than four million feet of tape and several hundred books
was credit, including and this is the best one, Flowers
in the Fucking Addict Addict.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Addicts A, Flowers in the Addictions, Flowers in the Attics.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Why do I do that? Okay?

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Purely based on mind Hunter, the wonderful series on ne
hwks that I personally love, and the way that actor
played at Kemper.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Oh, can you.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Imagine Flowers in the attic as that guy in the
kind of nerdy voice, like the she touched his coin?

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Is that in the book? I don't know my sister
and brother touching groins.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
My brother were like that, we have to track that
down somewhere. I mean, I would never listen to that
in a millionaires. I would What if I started falling
asleep to that at night? Because you know it's relaxing. No,
it is not holming and relaxing. No, it's one of
my new fall asleep at night books. And then I
kill a bunch of people and they're not related at all.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
I find, And I've already bragged that I'm sound sensitive.
I find people's voices to be a real make or break.
And knowing that a person who had that voice, oh right,
was also a psychotic killer who beheaded his own mother,
be a heartbreak for you.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
That would be a tough.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
One to separate and not hear all the crickly crags
of insanity and murder in there.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Fair enough so I can listen to a book about
murder while thongously, but I can't listen to I shouldn't
listen to a book by a murderer read by a murderer.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
I don't think so. I don't think you're subconscious, because
you do the.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thing where you know when you look at old photos
of a murderer and you're like, do I see it?

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Can I see it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I can see it in his eyes right, well, hear
it in his in his voice.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
You absolutely will. Of course they will try to drink.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yes, if nothing else, You're to be hearing the voice
of a sociopath who has no human like, normal human
connection to the book.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
He's just not going to do the book justice.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
He read so much VC Andrews when I was like, God,
we should have been taken away from us.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
It should have in banned. Listen. I'm not for banning books. No,
not really, but but you see, Andrews had.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Some shit going on. Did you ever read My Sweet Audrina?

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yes, okay, I'm obsessed on That concept was what if
my parents have brainwashed me and I don't remember my
actual childhood? Like?

Speaker 1 (15:18):
That whole concept was unbelieva.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Can I tell you how badly I wanted to have
been adopted and had been. I wanted to have been
kidnapped by my parents and they weren't really my parents.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yep, what the fuck is wrong? Why would they?

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Because it's just like exciting, Like you're just sitting there
in front of your TV dinner, you know what I mean,
like having your normal life, and you were like, what.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
If something happened, something cool happen? Yeah, like I don't
belong here. Let's start. Let's read that again. Let's book
club it right now. Yes, do you want to Yes?
Oh my god, let's all read. Which one do you
want to do?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Do you want to do My Sweet I don't remember
most of us, my Sweet Audrina, but it gives me chills,
so I must know something is going on in that book.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
I'm pretty sure that's the one. We're at one point,
the adoptive mother. Somebody scrubs somebody else with bleach in
a bathtub.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Fun. Do you remember that? No, like you must get
cleaner and clean. No, let's do it. If it's not
that one, it's a different Let's do that one. Or
Flowers in the Attic. Let's start with whichould we start with?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I kind of want to do My Sweet a dream
it just because it's a little bit like I just
rewatched the they did the Flowers in the Attic made
for TV movie on Lifetime Oh, did you watch it, Stephen,
Did Mal's do an episode?

Speaker 4 (16:29):
No?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
But she should No, Yes, absolutely?

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Wait will you tell her I'll do it with her
if she does it?

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Oh, do you want to do it too?

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Ma Alms has a podcast called.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Mother May I Sleep With podcasts podcasts that we've both
done where you watch a fucking made for TV lifetime movie.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, and did she stop doing it?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
She's seasonal so because you know, you go, you go
beat by beat of the movie.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
So she has it in fifteen episode chunks takes a
few months off.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh well, then we all have time to absorb it,
watch it fifteen times, like you know, full essays on it. Okay,
mall's Molly Mackley, Molly Mackley or We're coming at you,
coming for you. But everybody else that wants to do this,
let's all read my sweet Audrena, Like, do you want
to go pick up copies tomorrow?

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Sure? Today, it will be.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
It has to be a used like paperback copy to Okay,
it has to be a haunted copy.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Let's haunted with the.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Tears of a fucking girl from the eighties who's like,
I hope I get kidnapped. Yes, hot cut that out,
but fantasy if you can.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Go to a thrift store that has the copy of
this or your mother your grandmother's books bookshelf. It makes
me think of the cabin we used to stay in
in Blue Lake that had all kinds of It's Stephen King,
VC Andrews.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
They had all that.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Shit at this cabin. You could just go pick some
horrible book you're gonna read while you were there for
the week.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Oh, that sounds amazing.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
So we're going to we're all starting My Sweet Audrena
this Friday.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, because so the next week is Thanksgiving, So we're
putting a live episode up and so let's meet back
here in a week.

Speaker 3 (18:07):
In two weeks and two weeks at the beginning of December. Yeah,
whatever our next apartment episode is, we'll meet you here
and we will have read and we will be ready
to discuss my sweet hot dream.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
You guys, this is epic, epic. Send us notes your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Oh all right, okay, Why am I so excited?

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh because it's the best thing we've ever done. Other things, Oh,
really quickly, we have a couple of new tour dates
because you guys got really angry about certain things and
messaged our tour agent Joe. Yes, February fifteenth, we added
a second show to salt Lake City at Kingsbury Hall.
Those go on sale Friday, November seventeenth, which I think

(18:46):
is chimorrow.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
So Salt Lake City second show. You got your second show,
salt Lake City. God bless you got demanding. You scared
our fucking dour. And that's how you have to do
it in that business.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
How you do it. Come at them Dublin. Is that
a second show? Yeah, but they already put it up
for sale.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
So uh, it's May seventh, it's Vicker Street and it's
already on sale. They didn't do any kind of hole.
They were like, fine, we're doing it.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
So Dublin's May seventh second show. Yeap.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
And then May seventeenth we added a second show.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
This is a first, this is a new show.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Oh this is new. Sorry sorry. May seventeenth, Glasgow, Scotland. Hey,
we are doing a show for you, and I just
would like to say I lived there in two thousand
and two. Yeah, I lived within you Glasgow for I
think three months. So come come support your homegirl.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, say hi again, Hey run for me.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Hey, I I never understood what a lot of people
were saying here, but I really had the best time.
So those also go on sale tomorrow. This show is
going to be at the Is it the O two Academy?
Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Two Academy to academy.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Basically, just go to my favorite Murder dot com slash
for all the details and all the other shows we're
doing that are fucking we're really excited about. Twenty eighteen
is gonna be rid. We're getting new merch. It's going
to be a new like a fucking new experience.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
It's gonna be We're having the best time on the road.
You guys are so fun to come and meet and
do shows with. It's we really are. It's quite it's
a peak experience.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh and we're it's a peak experience.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
We're reposting our holidays, our holiday design, our holiday merch design.
So go to my favorite Murder shirts dot com and
check out the ugly holiday sweater.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Kind of like spoof that we did on that.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, it's from It's one of George's earliest concepts. Was
it yours or mine? No?

Speaker 1 (20:46):
No, no, I don't know. Did Kirsten just do it? From
the print fall.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
I mean, I know she Kirsten designed it, yeah, but
I can't remember which one of us thought of it.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
I won't take credit because I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
I have no iowont either.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
It's basically a really cute Christmas design that says, here's
the thing, fuck everyone in it and like stay text
you don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
But it looks like a Christmas sweaters.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, it's great, but it's but it's also like a sweatshirt,
so you don't have to wear you can still have
an ugly Christmas water without the heat or discomfort of
an ugly Christmas.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
You get a T shirt, there's gonna be a mug Listen.
Come on, we're doing it all for you. Look, we're
here for you. Look and listen. Please at my favorite
murder shirts. Dot com dot com goodbye, dot org, dot
org you know dot what's it is there? Like a
religious one? Dot something dot g E s U s
G E.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
I think you just felt Jesus wrong, miss Catholic.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
That's because I was trying to include everybody. Some people
call God, some people call him. Yeah, wait, hold on,
g E s U S wow.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
That's my I think my attic, my addict has been
usurped as.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
I do not mean to complain, but complain.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Recently, I've been in the states of mind of being
so tired and drained or just like we just talked
too much pretty much. Yeah, there's so much talking that
I hear things come out of my mouth or I'm
doing that weird thing. I like, you hold a door
open for someone they walk through, and then you're like tomorrow,
you're welcome tomorrow, or you say just some totally weird

(22:23):
thing and you think you're saying the normal thing.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, I get it. Horrifying, it's fun, No, it's not.
It's a good time.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Who's first this week? You know what we started? Let's
let's talk about this really quickly. Okay, we decided that,
and I think we should talk more about this of
who should be first this week? Meaning if your fucking
murder is horrifying and awful, and I have a fucking
delightful black widower from the fucking eighteen hundreds who's just
like kills all her husband, yeah, it's like, well I

(22:53):
should go second to like bring it back up.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Like last week I went second and did the burn
and that is just a terrible story and you should
have closed it, right, And same with remember the.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Last night I did the story of the boy that
killed his father, right, and the same exact thing. Mare
were both like E and I did.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
A fucking guy who dressed up as Santa Claus in
the early nineteen hundreds and robbed bank and it was
hilarity ensued so much hilarity in Sue, And this is Dallas,
third night in Dallas?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Was it third night? I don't know, no idea, So
I should have closed.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
I mean, look, we can, we can look back in
remembrance all we want.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
But we're maybe maybe when one of us knows we're
doing a murder, our story is fucking horrific, and we
can tell the other person like, hey, this isn't a closer,
are you?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Can you do the closer? Yes? That sounds fine.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Okay, so mine right now? It can be a closer
if you need it to be. Okay, how's yours? Uh?

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Uh? Not?

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Okay? Oh my god? Perfect?

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Right now, we are now officially dismantling they who went
first last time.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Unless we need it, unless it doesn't matter, how will
we go back to it? When whenever we decide Okay,
we'll make it up on the spot.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Oh yeah, that's rights, we can do it right. There's
no format. This is all pretend all right, Well great.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
This I it's funny because in thinking of that, I
worked on a couple different murders and I did this
in Texas a couple times where I'd starts something I'm like,
this is too depressed. So like there was the Killing Fields.
I was working on the Killing Fields because it's right
outside Houston and it is a place where either one

(24:46):
or several serial killers go to dump young women's bodies.
It's been going on four years. No one's ever think
they caught one guy that's connected to eleven murders, but
they haven't caught all of them.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's the Blurs show called The Alle right now that
you can watch. I think it's an Annie show on demand?

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Oh is that true?

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Out them?

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, it's good on Annie.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Well it's on demand. I don't know who did it.
Oh okay, that's great.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, because it's very it's very involved and convoluted, and
I got I would say a quarter of the way
through it, and then I was like, this is for
a live show, especially it's just so bleak.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Well, we get so many people at live shows being
like you should have why didn't you do this murder?
And it's like, because it's so fucking depressing, not because
we don't want to or didn't know about it. It's
just like hearing the audience's silence when you're talking about
fucking eleven people getting murdered.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Who didn't it's not solved. Yeah, it's a huge bummer.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
It's rough, and also it's well whatever, there's just all
kinds of element that's going on. So it's just felt
like I've started and stopped many because there's so many
dark ones. But then I stumbled upon an episode of
the television show Deadly Devotion, which I think.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Is on ID. You've never seen that one? I got
it on.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Apple like ituns Yeah, but so it's basically like murders
that happen within certain churches or religious christ o fun. Yeah,
so this one, uh is pretty amazing.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
It's the Amish serial killer. Amish killer. Yeah, tell me
about it.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Well, not in the classic sense, but yes, Okay, So
there's a I knew nothing about any of this. I
didn't know there were subsets of Amish within the Amish,
and there are some who are more liberal and some
who are more conservative. That sounds political, but more you know,

(26:40):
classic old school and.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
The Schwartz and Ruber Truber Amish.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
I'm sorry, Schwartz and Truber Amish are the considered old
order Amish. They speak Pennsylvania Dutch, I mean Pennsylvania Germans.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I'm not even reading.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Off the page that I'm holding in front of my face.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I'm like trying to remember off the top of.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
My head as I'm looking at They.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Speak Pennsylvania German.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
They speak English with outsiders, they don't follow. They don't
fellowship or inter marry with more liberal Amish orders, so
they won't go outside of their own Amish group. If
like the like they consider the Amish who put the
red orange reflective signs on the back of their carriages

(27:24):
that say like a slow thing for me. Yeah, that's
too liberal for them. These people don't have running water
or indoor plumbing. They they they never ride in cars
unless it's an absolute emergency. They they their belief is
that they're not supposed to take interest in their appearance

(27:45):
because it promotes vanity, so they dress in dark colors.
The women wear longer dresses. It's it's considered vain to
wear a button on your dress as a woman.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Like to have buttons.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
So basically, they're a huge fucking bummer. And you know
what's great about when we do Amish stories is that
they can't listen and tell us what we got wrong.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
They'll never fucking know a word we're saying about those
phony bitches.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Buttons.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
They're so phony, calling the Amish phony pony bony fucking phonies.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Okay, no, they're actually the realist. So they also.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Don't allow the teenagers. You know, normal Almish teenagers go
to get to do their rum spring out where they
go out into the world for a year and party
and go crazy, and then they get to come back
and then they're like, yeah, this is better, and it
is better. They have homemade butter and those barns. Yeah,
those wood burning stoves they sell on TV. So the

(28:47):
schwartz and trouper Amish teenagers do not get to leave,
but they do allow them to quote courte in order
to find a marriage partner, which includes hugging in a
bed while being fully closed and rocking in a chair together.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
So sorry, yeah, what the fuck?

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah you see him across the room, and you're like,
oh my god, what is this electricity that I'm feeling?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, because I don't know what electricity is, because I
don't know what this means trying to high five me across.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
I just held up my hand to hide five Georgia,
and she fucking picked up her foot and pointed.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
It at me like I was gonna high five her
foot that was just so far away.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
That was a genius. Okay, this is a good start.
It's a good start. So that was so something my
sister would do.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Okay. So yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
So so it's hardcore, and there's a young woman named
Ida who is raised you know, she's in the community,
her family as well liked she's, you know, a pretty
young girl that everybody likes. And and they show this
thing in the episode of the show where one of
the ways that they the boys and girls teenage boys

(30:08):
and girls mixed together is they go sing in groups
in a barn.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
So like sounds like a fucking blast, right.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
They go into the barn, the guys are kind of
over on one side singing, and then the girls are
on their side singing. So Ida goes to one of
these mixers and so, you know, that's a generous way
to describe it. And there she meets a fellow schwartz
and truber Amishman named Eli Stutzman. He's good looking, he's witty,

(30:38):
he's sophisticated, he's charismatic.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
He was a rebel. The people in this episode. He
wore a button.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
You fucking had a He had a button like as
a pin. No, he didn't just use it as a button.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
It wasn't. He just had an extra fe button. Yeah,
so perfulous button.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Oh my god, are you the funds? So the people
in this episode, there was this really awesome woman who
used to be Amish and she had the greatest accent
and she was like, so like, you know, wearing her
white turn offet. Yeah, very but the craziest accent. You
couldn't figure out what that accent was. And she was

(31:17):
saying that he always stood out that he was this
you know, he was really good looking and he just
kind of was like this thing everyone paid attention to
because he was just different than the other Amish teenage boy.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
He was the fabio of the Amish world. Totally Okay.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
The actor that they got to play him in the
re enactments. Looked like the main guy from Walking Dead.
So he had that bones, cheekbones and kind of like rangy,
you know, like something's going on with that. He might
shoot you and eat you. So his father was a
bishop and he was like a rebel. So he was

(31:57):
his father, and he fought constantly, viciously because he would
talk in church.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
He was always just doing something.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
He did whatever he wanted and the father and made
the father crazy and embarrassed, and he couldn't control him
and he was always testing the limits, they said. So
of course Ida immediately is like, I'm in love with
this guy.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
He loved him incredible. I'm talking during church. I love him.
He's a fucking fighter.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Shut his fucking mouth at he's whispering during during the church.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
Then the Bible reading. Okay, so she ends up. Some
people are her parents are worried that she's mixing in
with a you know, a bad Amish. But other people
say that she had this calming effect on him and
he was much less rebellious, and they were clearly really
into each other and in love. And the way they

(32:52):
describe it, the Amish describe it is when you have
these things, they call it being worldly.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
So like, if you're.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Really into your appearance in the vanity thing, that's a
worldly issue. It means like you're from out the outside world. Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
His worldly ways created.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Problems in the community and with his father specifically, and
so he gets in such a bad fight with his
father he leaves the community, and of course IDAs devastated.
He never says a word to her, he just leaves.
She's broken hearted, but she knows there and love. She
believes they're in love, and she believes he's gonna come back.
So he goes and stays at a different farm, another

(33:35):
Amish family. He goes and stays there, like rents a room,
but he ends up getting kicked out because the mother
in the family finds gay horn in his room.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Wait what yes, fucking one hundred and eighty. So she's
in the reenactments.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
She's making this bed with the big beautiful Amish quilt
on it, and then it's like, what's this over here?
And basically this was a thing that he had been
dealing with, part of his rebellion and part of his thing.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
How do you think do you think the Amish woman
was just like what is this? And she's like I'm
gonna take five minutes and then I'm gonna tell it. Reyone.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
He's like, I better look through this to make sure.
Oh my god, where do you Okay?

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, so you can imagine how freaked out they were
where they were like, they just immediately kick him out.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Where did he even find Gaye Hoorn?

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Well, it sounds like he was kind of he from
the looks of it and the sound of it, he
was a bit of a sociopath. So he got what
he wanted all the time. So he went to a
BUCkies and he was like.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
He was went down to the BUCkies.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
He put on his worldly suspenders so that nobody would,
you know, pick up on him.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Okay, so okay.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
So he ends up moving back into the community and
he tells Ida that he wants to marry her and
start a life and he's going to reform and he's
going to be good, which essentially was he had nowhere
else to go, and so he comes back, he apologizes.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
He repents.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
They get married on Chris Smith's nineteen seventy five. So
after a month, she's pregnant and they start their family.
You know, their son Danny is born obviously nine months later,
turns out the Amish carry their children for nine months,
just like the worldly folk. So they move they their son,

(35:25):
Danny's born, and then they move to a farm and
they start a dairy business. So they have a bunch
of cows. They milk the cows, they sell the milk,
and that's how they make their money. And they all
work on this farm. It's really hard work, but they're
actually doing okay. And Ida gets pregnant for a second time.
And then one night they're an electrical storm hits and

(35:48):
they wake up in the middle of the night and
electric lightning bolt has hit the barn and it's caught
it on fire. So they run outside and Ida run
straight into the barn. She's like, I'm going to go
save those pails of milk. Yes, And he runs to
go to the pump to get to start filling buckets

(36:10):
with water. And when he comes back with the buckets
of water, Ida is laying in the doorway of the
barn unconscious, and so they ca he you know, gets neighbors.
They end up calling nine one one, and he when
the police and the fire department everybody get there, he
explains that Ida, when she was a child, she had

(36:31):
a bout of a rheumatic fever, and so she had
a weak heart and she ended up being dead, and
so they were like, she must have been so scared
of this fire and having run in and everything that
she just had a heart attack and died.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
So they list her death as cardiac arrest.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
So he of course is completely grief stricken, and the
community rallies around him. They all start working at the
farm to make sure the dairy farm keeps going. He's
just in the house. Some people come to take care
of Danny because he's just like completely beside himself, and

(37:14):
Ida's mother actually moves in to take care of Danny,
and slowly, as the months go by, she notices Eli
is less and less greef stricken and more and more
acting like the rebel that he was before he left
the first time. And within months of her death, he

(37:34):
has the whole farm electrified. Yeah, so there's a really
hilarious scene where they just walk in and he has
got this big, really devious smell in his place. He
like reaches up and pulls at the string and like
the light goes on in the kitchen, like, yeah, see
this is mine. So he puts in lights everywhere. He
buys a car, he cuts his hair, and he starts

(37:57):
leaving the house at night eyed. His mother's like, what
the fuck is going on? So then it turns out
he put an ad in the personal section of a
gay newspaper. Wait what Yeah, so he was going to
live that secret dream that he wanted to do before.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
And here this is.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
How the ad read. Oh dear, amish man, muscular, thirties,
five seven one forty, blue eyes, brown hair, straight appearing,
I think is what that's str app right.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Very appearance? What strapping? Str What is it?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
I was thinking that they meant like straight, like he
seems straight, but it could be strapping. Not the brownie man,
very discrete, affectionate, health, conscious sense of humor, would like
to meet others into farming, ranching or carpentry for friendship
or possible relationship. So he's going for it.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
I mean, fine, love, dude, I love.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Farming and ranching are very similar. I'm not sure why
he used he used up those letters to write both,
but maybe there's a subtle difference.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
I'm not sure, or it could be code.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
So he starts having parties in.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
The barn and like men are coming. Yes, men are cut.
You know, this is months after but men are coming
to the ranch, uh, gay men, and it says it
says here he starts having parties in the barn for
gay English and Amish men. So I think it's just

(39:36):
like whoever wants to come. But basically the entire community
starts gossiping because they're just like dig.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
You hear, and he's not being discreet in the lead.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
He's got lights on like for starters. So finally there's
so much gossip and he's so you know, he goes
and tells the family friends like he's so hurt by
all this gossip, making it seem like it's almcious and
untrue that he In nineteen eighty two, he sells the farm.
He takes Danny and he leaves and he settles in Austin, Texas.

(40:09):
And it was really hard for Danny to make that
adjustment because he went from being you know, old school
Amish into just the real world of Austin, Texas. So
he became really withdrawn. He had a really hard time. Meanwhile,
his dad was basically opens a construction business and just

(40:31):
starts freely dating gay men, like dating openly in a
very modern way, which you know, it's the early eighties
in Texas, like it must have been dangerous to say
the leads totally. In the fall of nineteen eighty four,
Eli's driving down the road and he sees a hitchhiker.

(40:51):
He picks him up, and his name's Glenn Pritchard. And
Glenn Pritchard is a divorced father to who used to
be Mormon and had a really bad drinking problem. He
left the Mormon church, he left his family or you know,
maybe his wife divorced him because of his drinking problem.
He tried to join the Coast Guard to solve the problem,
he got kicked out, so now he's just kind of lost.

(41:12):
So Eli offers him a job at the construction business
and room and board in the house, so he he
actually Danny, Eli's son, gets along with Glenn really well.
And Glenn has two kids and he really misses his kids,
and so he you know, takes Danny on as like

(41:33):
his own and looks out for him, and he really
doesn't like the way Eli's bringing men home constantly and
is in no way tries to hide it, and Glenn's
really uncomfortable like that he's doing it. In front of
Danny and thinks, you know, and tries to talk to
him about it, but he doesn't he you know, Eli
has none of that. And then he's like, well, I
also have another problem, which is you haven't paid me

(41:54):
in six months because he's been working, you know, for
the construction company and Eli's not paying. And Eli's like,
I have a cash flow problem. I'm going to get
you the money. He's like, well, you need to get
me the money. Well, it turns out they find Glenn
Pritchard dead in a ditch. He's been shot, and when
the police come to talk to Eli, they find his

(42:16):
last place of residence. Eli says, I haven't seen him
in two months. I don't know what happened to him.
Immediately police are like, there's something going on with this guy.
When they go back to question him a second time,
like a week later, Danny and Eli have left town.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
So basically Eli drops.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Danny off at a family that he met when he
kind of first left Ohio where where they started out.
There's like a family named the Barlows in Wyoming that
he met. They I don't think he knew them that well,
and he brings Danny to their house and.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Drops him off, is basically, can you take care of him?

Speaker 3 (43:01):
I have to go, and like makes up some reason
my hand, some business he has to go take care
of and he's like, I'll be back.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
And six months later he calls and says.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
He's coming to get Danny to take him to Danny's
grandparents for Christmas. So he's going to take him to
Ida's parents. Oh, back to Amish country. Danny's thrilled, and
then the grandparents are also thrilled because they hear that
they're coming back for the holidays, and so they haven't
seen Danny in five years, so they're thrilled that they

(43:32):
get to see him again and reconnect. Ten days later,
it's Christmas Eve, they don't show up, so of course
there the family's really worried.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Eventually they get.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
A letter from They get a letter from Eli saying
he's skiing with friends in Idaho, and then he keeps
sending letters just giving them updates on what they're doing
out in the world, and sometimes Danny sends letters to
it's just saying, you know, I'm learning this in school
and blah blah blah. So then then the grandparents in July,

(44:06):
so it's like, you know, six months after they didn't
show up for Christmas, they get a letter saying that
Danny was killed in a car accident and buried in
Wyoming on the family plot of the Barlows, the family
that he stayed with.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Oh my god, and the parents the grandparents were like, well,
we we want to see that, like we tell us
more about it, and he just doesn't say anything else.
So they end up getting on a bus. These old
school Amish people who are not allowed to ride in cars,
they break the rule. They get on a bus and
they go to Wyoming so that they can go see

(44:42):
their grandson's.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Grave.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
So when they get there, the name their last name
is Gingrich. So they get the Gingriches get to the
Barlows in Wyoming and they say, will you please show
us our grandson's grave, And they don't know what they're
talking about, and they're like, the last that we heard
is they let you know, Eli came and pick them

(45:07):
up and they were going driving around and we haven't
heard anything else there. He's not buried here. So then
they have to ride back on the bus, like now
they have no idea what's going on. On December twenty fourth,
nineteen eighty five, in Chester, Nebraska, a hunter is walking
through a field. Oh no, uh huh, and he sees
something across the field and it's fucking cold, you know,

(45:31):
it's Nebraska in December. He thinks it's a mannequin, he
thinks it's a doll, and when he comes up on it,
it's the body of a young boy in blue pajamas,
laying on his back with his hand over his heart
and it's so cold outside that the skin is blue,
and he's dead and authorities can't identify him. There's nothing

(45:54):
identifying on him.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
So they end up calling.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Him little Boy Blue, And two years later, Readers Digest
does a story about little Boy Blue and the hunter
who found them and how there was no sign of
trauma on the body. They don't know how he died,
and they don't the authorities hadn't figured out a cause
of death. They just know he was wearing blue pajamas.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
So the Barlows.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Find this story in Reader's Digest magazine. No, they know
that when Danny left their house, when Eli came to
pick him up, he was wearing blue pajama That the
fuck yeah, So they have a bad feeling and they
go to police or they call police, and the police
come over and the investigator who was on the scene
when the body was found is the one that goes

(46:42):
to the Barlow's house and they go pull out a
picture of Danny and he immediately knows that's the boy.
And they end up taking some of the things that
Danny left behind at the Barlow's house, one of which
was a copy of the Vellatine Rabbit Book, which was
his favorite book, and they fingerprint off of the pages
of that book and they identify it and it was
his body, and so sad so on December fourteenth, it's

(47:09):
identified as Danny Statsman and they realize Eli has been
sending letters from Danny to the grandparents seven months after
Danny was actually dead.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
In that so he died immediately after leaving the Barlow's house,
probably because he's.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Pretty much exactly right then.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
I think it's Hazel, Texas, but it might have been
something like Easel, Texas, but I couldn't I couldn't figure
out what the narrator was saying, but basically in a
Texas town out I believe it's outside Fort Worth. ELI
files a police report because his car gets stolen and immediately,
the police go and arrest him and he's extradited to Wyoming.

(47:50):
So when he gets there, he tells the police that
he picked Danny up from the Barlow's and he was
sick when he picked him up, and they were dry
all night and Eli just assumed that he was sleeping,
and then at one point he checked on him because
he wasn't responsive, and he figured out that he was dead.

(48:10):
So he took Danny's body and laid it out in
a field, quote where God could find him.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Upon learning this and that bullshit story, the police reopened
Ida's death from nineteen seventy seven and they go talk
to Ida's doctor who is in this special and he
is like this, I'm assuming he's an Amish doctor because
he's he looks like a character actor from Little House
in the Prairie and he kind of talks like this
is very quiet, And basically the police went to them

(48:45):
and they were asking him about Ida's heart problem and
he's like, what are you talking about? She didn't have
a heart problem, and they're like but and he goes,
where did you get that? And they were like the
husband and he's like, no, no, no, she was in
perfect health. So then they know basically that he had

(49:06):
something to do with that death, but they have no
evidence to connect him to it whatsoever. When the Austin
Police ask him about Glenn Pritchard's death, though, he changes
his story from what the original story was and he
tells them that he was in the house with Danny

(49:28):
they heard a gunshot go off, but he didn't get
up and check to see what the noise was. And then, yeah, right,
how you would do if you were in a house
and someone else got shot. And then the next morning
when he got up to check, Glenn was gone, and
so he you know, he didn't know what happened and
never looked into it. So turns out when the police

(49:51):
go to talk to the neighbors, the neighbors are like,
we could hear them screaming about money at each other constantly,
and we heard the gunshot.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
So like the neighbors tell a totally different story, and
so basically the theory becomes Danny was there when his
father shot Glenn Pritchard, and he didn't want the witness,
so he smothered Danny and that's why there was no
signs of trauma on the body. Oh my god. Yeah,

(50:19):
and then left his body in a fucking field, which
is just the weird like that alone, the idea that
he thought he was gonna be able to tell authorities
that left him where God could find him where it's.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Like like you thought that was okay somehow, where it's
like no one would think that was okay.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
You would you would never do that to your child.
It doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Anyway. On August.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
In August of nineteen eighty nine, he sentenced to forty
years in prison, but he's paroled in March of two
thousand and two. He ended up serving like a quarter
of his terms.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Stop it everyone.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
But when he gets out, he moves to Fort Worth.
He lived a super low key life because he found
out while he was in prison that he had HIV.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
So he ends up on January thirty first, two thousand
and seven, he committed suicide.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
He slashed his wrists.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Sat down in a chair, and then watched TV until
he'd fled out and died.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
Holy shit.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
Yeah, and that Eli Stutzman is the Amish serial killer.
So it's not cereal in the way that we would
love it to be.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, listen, we don't want we don't love.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
It, No, not love it, but like I'm thinking Buffalo
Bill when I start this story. But then it is
the thing of this is a a sociopath slash psychopath
who just would kill anybody that got in the way
of what he wanted to do in his life. And
the idea that that's coming out of it's just like
it just fascinates me.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
It could be.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
It doesn't matter how you grew up, right, it doesn't
matter where you came from, if you have that thing
in your brain that makes you only want to like
win and like dominate people, and it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
If you're like immune to fucking empathy. Empathy, Yeah, you're
immune to it. Yeah, you don't give a shit.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
You just do what you want and then you leave
so many people in your way, you know, Grant, the grandparents, horror,
these people, all of it, and you just don't fucking care.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
And that again just over your nose. Deadly Devotion.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
That was that basically I just told you that episode
of Deadly Devotion, which I's I really enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I love that never heard of it, incredible noting the show,
but like the concept, yes, yeah, it's the right, okay,
bee boop?

Speaker 1 (52:45):
All right. Listen, Like when I said that this is
a this is a closer, I didn't mean it was
like a lighthearted story.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
So oh okay, not happy about it. But there's no like,
there's not a ton of like, uh, grouesome. There's no
gruesome details in it.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
I mean I feel like if we ever sat down
and did like a scientific pie graph or something, yeah,
it would be like the one you can't get out
of is dead children, right, Murdered children is the hardest, right.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Okay, Well then this is a little bit all right, let.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Me just do this, okay, okay, in the in honor
of what we talked about last weekend last week of
like websites like Rancor and all these of like the
lists that they do. Yes, this is three super mysterious disappearances.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
Okay, all right, but yes, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
I'm changing the rules. I loving this.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
You could do whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
I'm starting with the Springfield three, you know them. Okay,
this is so this is just weird to me because
there's there's nothing.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Let's read about it, Okay.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
The Springfield three story begins June seventh, nineteen ninety two
two friends, Susie Streeter she's nineteen, and Stacy McCall she's eighteen.
So picture the bangs and the fucking bleed blonde hair.
They the two girls graduated from Kickapoo High School the

(54:09):
day before, and so they're celebrating like graduation of that
sort of thing. So they are seen around two am
on June seventh, leaving the last of the graduation parties
they at attend that evening. They were supposed to spend
the night at a friend's house, but when they got
to the friend's house, it was too crowded, probably with
people sleeping and not sleeping, so they were like, fuck it,

(54:29):
We're going back to Susie's house. And at Susie's house
was Susie's mom, Cheryl Levitt. She's forty seven. She's a
cosmetologist at a local salon. She's a single mother and
she's really close with her daughter. So they go back
to her house. The next morning around nine am, a
friend her boyfriend go to the house to pick up.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Because the two girls were supposed to have picked.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Them up to go to like a water park for
the graduation activities.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
When they get there, they find the front door unlocked
and they go in the house, but there's no sign
of any of the three women. Each of their cars
are parked outside, and all their personal property is left behind,
including their purses, money, keys, cigarettes, as well as the
family dog, who's super agitated and locked in the bathroom.

(55:21):
So they're like, what the fuck. The only weird thing
at the scene is that the glass lampshade of the
porch light had been shattered, but the bulb inside had
been left intact, So the boyfriend sweeps the broken glass
up to be helpful, and they While they're inside, they
also answer a strange and disturbing call from an unidentified

(55:46):
male who made sexual induendos innuendos to who answered the
phone the girl of the couple, Oh oh was there? Yeah,
So they went to.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Check on them. The girl answers the phone so immediately
a dirty phone call. The dirty phone call.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Immediately she hangs up, and then another call immediately comes
in again of sexual nature, and she hangs up again.
Let's see, So they okay, okay, there another the mother
of the girl, Stacy, who wasn't who didn't live at

(56:21):
the house.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
She later goes to visit the house to be like,
where the fuck is my daughter?

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I can't get a hold of her, and she inside
notices all three of the purses are there, of course,
sees her daughter's clothing neatly folded from the night before.
She calls the police, and after placing the call, while
checking the phone's answering machine, she finds a strange message left.
But somehow it was inadvertently erased the message, so we

(56:48):
don't know what the message is and what it could
have meant.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
And did she say what she just said? It was
a weird message.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I think it was like another sexual nature message. So
we're very interested in the calm believed it may have
been contained a clue, but it's fucking gone, just gone forever,
gone forever, because this is early nineties.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Like, was it still like an answer machine would tape
in it?

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I think so? Right, we just you rewind it, yeah,
and record over it.

Speaker 3 (57:20):
They still existed then, yeah, although there was a you
know that well in our household. Anyway, we got the
like call, the answering machine became it was just in
your phone. It just basically got ordered what you wanted, right,
It would take messages, but then you could also get
That's when.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Stars sixty nine made its grand debut.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
And remember when we had that like silver and black
fucking message machine with a tiny cassette inside, and you
would listen to a message, and then you rewound the
tape yep, and recorded over it, and then you could
get new messages, which you could only get as many
messages as were as could be uh left on that
little cassette. I fucking loved that machine. Yeah, it was fascinating.

(58:02):
It was amazing. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Okay, So the police
aren't called for sixteen hours after the women were last
seen at two am the night before, and other worried
friends and family called and visited a home that day,
which means a fucking shit ton of people walked through

(58:24):
the house during the day.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Ten to twenty people walked through the house.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Upon arrival, the officers noticed no signs of a struggle
except for the shattered porch light, and they also noted
that the beds had been slept in, so had been
so in nineteen ninety seven, Levit and Street are declared
legally dead, but their case files are still officially listed

(58:51):
under missing. Investigators received a tip that the women's bodies
were buried in the foundations of the South Parking garage
at Cox Hospital. So in two thousand and seven, crime
reporter Kathee Bayard brought a man named Nick Rick Norland,
a mechanical engineer, to Springfield to scan the corner of

(59:12):
the parking lot with ground penetrating radar. He found three
anomalies roughly the same size quote that he said, we're
consistent with a grave site location in the foundation.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Two of the anomalies were parallel and the other was perpendicular,
so like kind of like cross hatched. The Springfield Police
Department didn't believe the scan was conclusive enough to justify
tearing up the concrete, and also said at the parking
garage was completed a year after the women's disappearance, but
they could have been left somewhere, so it was never

(59:47):
tore up, but people think it's there. Then read it's
also like, here's how you're fucking wrong. It's not, oh,
you know, okay. So then in nineteen ninety seven, Robert
Craig Cox, He's imprisoned in Texas as a convicted kidnapper
and robber and the suspect in a Florida murder He
told journalists that he knew where the three women had
been murdered and buried, and claimed their bodies would never

(01:00:07):
be found.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
He in nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
At the time, he had been living in Springfield, but
had alibis for the night. But it was like his
girlfriend at the time, who has since been like, nobody
was fucking lying about it. Yeah, he said that he
would disclose to what he would disclose what happened to
the three women after his mother had died, but he
knewould happen, And as of today, a couple tips a

(01:00:31):
month still come in, but no one knows what happened
to the Springfield three. Oh my god, these three fucking women.
And that guy's mother hasn't died, I guess not.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
But he's everyone thinks, But everyone also thinks he's lying.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Oh, he's just trying to get some kind of Yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
A kidnapper from that neighborhood, you know. Yeah, it's just crazy.
That's super crazy. Yeah, Okay, So the next one is Okay,
So a girl named Asha Decree, I'm sorry, Asia Degree.
She's born Aisha is born August fifth, nineteen ninety She's
a fucking normal nine year old fourth grader from Shelby,

(01:01:12):
North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Normal girl, happy family, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
The night of February fourteenth, two thousand, Asha and her
brother went to sleep as usual in the room they shared.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Her older brother.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
Almost an hour later, the power went out in the
neighborhood after a nearby car accident, which is fucking creepy
and weird, but isn't connected to this.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
But I think it's just creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Yeah, it's restored. And then after that, her dad, Harold,
returns home from work around twelve thirty in the morning.
He checks on his daughter and son, just saw them
both sleeping normal, But shortly after he went to bed
around two thirty am, he recalls hearing Asha's bed squeak.
At that point, allegedly, Asha got out of bed, took

(01:01:58):
a book bag she had previously packed, several sets of
clothes and personal items, and left the house.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
She's heard of this. Yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. She's
nine years old. Yes. Leaves.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Between three forty five am and four fifteen am, two
drivers saw her walking south along Highway eighteen wearing a
long sleeve white T shirt and white pants, and one
witness reported seeing her at about four am, and said
that he turned his car around because he thought it
was strange that such a small child would be out

(01:02:29):
by herself at that hour. But when he circled three times,
he saw her run into the woods by the roadside
and disappear.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
It's just bone chilling. I think you're say you're driving home,
you went to a party. You're like, I want to leave.
I don't want to be at this party. People like,
please just stay two more hours. Blood blah blood.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Suddenly four am, as you're driving home, you're like, sober bummed,
wanted to go home three hours ago.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
This is how I picture everything in my life. And
then you're driving down a highway and see a child
dressed in all white walking with a book back and
you never stop screaming.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
And then you go back. You're like, what the fuck
this is weird.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
You go back and you go to drive by her again,
and she runs into the fucking one, fucking darts away.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
What do you do? Call the police? You call the police?

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Sight right, you pull your car over, you leave it there,
Ye call the police. But you don't have cell phones yet?
Oh shit, yeah, no cell phones. Maybe he went home and.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Called Maybe why wasn't he a rich guy with one
of those crazy huge cell.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Phones in his car?

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Good rich guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
This isn't fucking Dallas or whatever TV show they had
those in Okay, Okay, and so there was okay, it
was a rainy night. To add that to this, not
a fucking thing, a rainy night. And the witness said
there was a storm raging when he saw her.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
No, there's no way I wouldn't think that was a
ghost if I saw it. Oh yeah, like because it's
so insane.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
At six thirty am that morning, Asha's mother went into
the kids room to wake them up. She found Asia gone,
and she called the police, who were arrived by six
forty five. Six forty am. Police dogs are called at
the scene. They could not pick up Asia's scent. So
February seventeenth, two days after the search began, candy wrappers

(01:04:22):
are found in a shed in a nearby business along
the highway, near where Asia had been seen running into
the woods. So candy wrappers, okay, along with them or
a pencil, a marker, and a Mickey mouse shaped hair
bow that were identified as belonging to her. So it's
almost like she ran away at this point, it seems yeah, right, yeah,
but why would a kid run away in a raging storm?

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
That doesn't seem normal?

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Yeah? I bet it started raining when she was outside.
I would think, right, because any plan you would have
if it was rainy, you'd be like, i'hll do this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Yeah for sure? Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
A week later, sure, no other traces or witnesses were found,
the search was called off. FBI got involved and noted
she was not a typical runaway.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
She was under twelve, didn't have normal stuff such as
a dysfunctional family, she didn't have bad grades, and by
all accounts, she was a shy, sweet girl with close family,
church community, all this shit. She didn't even have a
computer in the house. So the thing of like her
running away to meet someone she met online, oh that's not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
That doesn't make any sense. I mean, doesn't make sense
right right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
There was no blood, no signs of a struggle or
car accident, and for eighteen months everything stalled until Asia's
book bound book bag was found during a construction project.
So the backpack with her name and telephone number written inside,
was found wrapped in a plastic trash bag about twenty
six miles from her home. It was said that the

(01:05:54):
bag looks carefully prepared, as if she were instructed by
an adult what to pack noo. In May twenty sixteenth,
the FBI announced that their reinvestigation of the case had
turned up a new witness that had come forward and
reported seeing a girl who resembled Asia getting into a
dark green nineteen seventies Lincoln Mark for or Ford Thunderbird

(01:06:18):
with rest around the wheel.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
And near where she was last seen.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
So a scholarship in her name is was created for
deserving local students and family members hold an annual march
each February, retracing what they believe is the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Path that she took the night she vanished. That they
don't know why.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
And the thing about the path she took, too, is
that it's the path that her school bus took in
the morning. It's not or like when she went to school.
It's not an easily walkable path. It's almost like it
was the only way she knew how to get from
certain points in town because she took it every day. Yeah,
rather than that was her purposeful planned.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Like that she knows if she's going to go to, say,
the town library, right, this is the way she's going.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
To be this library the way you go. Yeah, Oh,
it's just this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Weird story that is maddening because it's like who got
into her ear was like do you want to audition
for a TV?

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
And how shouldn't tell any of her friends like oh
I met this person or.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Her parents like, oh my god, that's maddening, And how
long ago did it happen?

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
This happened. It happened in two thousand.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
Man, and she's nine. It's so much younger than Yeah,
that's like that makes me think it's like someone who's
like made her, made her believe something mm hmm, that
she could have something that she normally couldn't have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Yeah, like if you meet me here, I'm giving away
this pony, right, this shit right?

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Fucks really And then like all of that up until
that point is like, Okay, she ran away from home
for a certain reason, everything would have been normal. But
then when they find her backpack buried wrapped in plastic,
something she ran into someone or something and the thing's
in the backpack. Yeah, if somebody like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
That idea that she packed it specifically for a reason,
Yeah it was a plan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yeah, God damn fucked up. Horrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
All right, the last one has a resolution. Okay, okay,
Bobby Dunbar, you ready for this? Yes, okay. Bobby Dunbar
was the firstborn son to Lessie and Percy Dunbar of
opielai O, Hawaii.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
No to a town in Louisiana.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Okay, Oplaosis Nope, Louisiana.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
In August nineteen.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
Twelve, I think Lucinda could be wrong, but Lucinda Williams
has a song.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
It's say it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
I think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Opal Losses Opal Lass that must be it, or I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Mean thinking of nagadochis Yeah, I forget it. The song
might be about Bobby Dunbar. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
In August of nineteen twelve, Oh yeah, the Dunbars took
a fishing trip to nearby Swayze Lake in Saint Landry Parish, Louisiana.
While on that trip, little Bobby Dunbar disappears. After an
eight month search, authorities found a handyman traveling through Mississippi
with a boy. And it's like this crazy search with

(01:09:41):
his photo everywhere. It's this missing child blah blah blah,
who appeared to match the description of Bobby Dunbar. The
man with him William can't, can'twell Walters. He claims that
the boy was actually named Charles Bruce Anderson, and he
was the son of a woman who he who worked
for his family, and that the boy's mother named Julia

(01:10:06):
Andrew Anderson, she had willingly granted him in custody of
this boy and it doesn't matter. Fucking Walters is arrested
and authorities sent for the Dunbars to come to Mississippi
and identify this boy that they think is their son.
Oh okay, they think is his son. They think it's
Bobby Dunbar.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Do you know how much longer it was after he disappeared?
It was eight months?

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Oh okay, yeah, so pretty quickly upon seeing the missing son,
her missing son. There's like there's different reports. Some say
that the mother Lessie like freaked out and was like
my son, and Bobby Dunbar was like mom, you know,
and they embraced. And other people said that that the
boy cried and said that and agreed that this wasn't

(01:10:50):
that his mother, you know, was someone else?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
How could those how could it be two different exact
opposite stories, Like didn't it happen in a police station?

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
I think there would be an official Yeah, but media, man,
they like to true. Not that they're not talking shit
on media.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
Everyone's great, vital et cetera now more than ever.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
So yeah, so they're like, all right, maybe this is
our kid. Let's bring him home tonight and see.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
How it goes. It's just like the Changeling. Just like
the Changeling in a real fucking life. It happened like
thirty years before. Yeah. Fuck, okay, can you imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
I mean, I guess at the time you don't have
photos or something, but not knowing if this person is
your kid or not, how does that happen?

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Well, but in the Changeling.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
She knew it wasn't our kid, and it was the
cops going, no, crazy bitch, this is your kid, right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
And it's also like a grease shricken mother who's like,
this resembles my kid. I really want it to be
my kid. They're telling me it's my kid. Maybe they're
right exactly. Yeah, Like your worst fear is that your
child is gone forever. So anybody's showing up and being
like it's me, you know, yeah, but he was the
kid wasn't even like according to certain stories, the kid

(01:12:02):
was like, no, this isn't my this isn't who I am,
this is not my parent.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Also, you have to think of this kid that was
just being driven around randomly by some dude.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Yeah, what was he what.

Speaker 3 (01:12:13):
Was happening to him?

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
And what kind of state of shock and freak out
was he in. It's almost like you combine two people
who are in shock and trauma together.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Totally and it's like, uh, yeah, okay, So yeah, you're
not going to say that. Okay, the police officers, the
mother's not going to be like, no, you guys are wrong.
This isn't you know, you're not going to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
No. I think how many bad haircuts have I gotten?
Where As it's happening, I'm like, well, you're the boss.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Yeah, looks great.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
I guess I don't know what I like Anymoreyeah, yeah,
that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
So they they're like, we don't know if it's him,
bring him home tonight, we give him a bath. And
then the next day they're like, yep, that's our kid.
Based on moles and scars. They're like, it's totally our son.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Okay, all as well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
So the boy goes home with the dunbars. There's a
fucking parade and fanfare celebrating the homecoming. Everyone's like, we found,
you know, we found the missing Dunbar boy. And then
shortly after Julia Anderson, the mother of the boy who
originally was supposed to be that wasn't Bobby Dunbar. She's

(01:13:19):
in North Carolina. She arrives and you know, is like,
that's actually my kid and I didn't tell him he
could take him for that long. But she goes to
his she goes to his hold on okay, d d okay.
She's unmarried and worked as a field hand for the

(01:13:39):
family of the man who had him. She said that
she allowed him to take her son for what said
was supposed to be a two day trip to visit
one of Walter's relatives, and that she had not consented
for him to take him for more than a few days. Okay, yeah,
so so so this woman, Julia is presented with five

(01:13:59):
days from boys basically a fucking boy photo lineup. Yeah uh,
and the same age as her son, including the boy
who had claimed who had been clamed by the Dunbars.
The boy is presented he gave no he gave no
indication that he recognized this woman.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
As his mother.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Oh yeah, and she asked whether that he was the
boy recovered. She's like, set the boy you found, like,
didn't totally recognize him at first either.

Speaker 3 (01:14:26):
Also, what do you give a shit? Aren't you looking
for your son? Why are you asking other questions? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Just she wou didn't know name your son. She didn't
know for sure. She was like, is that how do you? Okay? Yes, right,
she said she was unsure at the end of it.
And I'm wondering.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
So this kid who's supposed to who's now is or
isn't the Bobby Dunbar boy like goes home with this family.
They have a fucking maybe a nice house and all
this nice shit, and he sees his mother trying to
get him back who's a fucking field hand yep, And
he doesn't say anything maybe yeah, you know, he's like
sad as that is well. And also he's she's the

(01:15:07):
one that put him in that car with that man. Yeah,
and to whatever end that was, she thought he thought
she didn't want her anymore maybe and was just like, huh, yeah,
I'm not going back to this shit.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Yeah okay, yi.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
But she takes she takes the boy back with her
and season the next day or I guess in the
station she undresses him. So this fucking kid is getting
undressed the left and fucking right by his people. She
then indicated a strong certainty that the boy was her son, Bruce,
and not Bobby Dunbar. But of course everyone was already like,

(01:15:43):
fuck you, poor lady, that's not true.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
You're lying.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
So of course, then the newspaper's question her moral character
because she had had three children, the other two which
were deceased by that point, out of wedlock, and.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
So her claims were dismissed.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Oh yeah, but she does go to the kidnapping trial
of the sky Walters and says and repeats that you know,
he didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
She didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
He didn't kidnap my son, and the court reaches the
determination that the boy was Bobby Dunbar conclusively. They were like, period,
it's not this other kid, Bruce, It's Bobby Dunbar. The
sky Walters is convicted of kidnapping, and the boy remains
in the custody and grows up with the Dunbar family
as Bobby Dunbar, the kid it had gone missing when
they went camping.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
Yeah, okay, so I think, wait, this does have a resolution.
You're gonna know what happens. Yeah, oh pretty much, please God. Okay,
because this is nuts. This is like four movies combined.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Because it also reminds me of the Wineville Chicken coop murder. Yeah,
there's some horrible too, that's what. Oh it's the same
thing as a changing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
That's changeling. But that chicken coop murder story is insane.
It's so fucked up. But there were kids who.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
At the end of that were they were going to
get in trouble, so they deny that they belonged to
the parents that were there to claim them. I'm thinking
of those two things as two sad things. But it
was basically just the end of the story where they
were like, Nope, that's not me, because they thought they
were going to get like spank. Yeah, like it's that
crazy little kid mentality.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Yeah, okay, it's so sad. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
So this this boy is raised as Bobby Dunbar, whether
or not it's him for sure. He marries, has four
children of his own, and dies in nineteen sixty six,
having lived out the remainder of.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
His life as Bobby Dunbar.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Wow, this guy, Okay, years after his death, one of
his granddaughters, Margaret Dunbar cut right, begins her own investigation
of the events because I think it was like a
family fucking story that nobody wanted to talk about. So
she pours through newspaper accounts, interviews the children of Julia Anderson,
the woman who claimed that kid was hers, and they

(01:17:51):
actually said to her, you know, this man came and visited,
visited us, and I think it was him trying to
see like the kid who was raised as Bobby Dunbar
as an adult came back to the town where they
lived to meet his maybe siblings. Oh, and examine the
notes and evidence presented at Walter's defense presented by Walter's

(01:18:14):
defense attorney for his kidnapping trial and appeal. In two
thousand and four, after an Associated Press reporter approached the
family about the story, Bobby Dunbar Junior consented to undergo
a DNA.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Test to resolve the issue.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
The test showed that the kid raised as Bobby Dunbar
was one hundred percent not related to the Dunbars.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
Holy shity.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
So that poor fucking woman that came down was like,
this is my son, yeah, taken away from me?

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Yeah, they were like, too late. We already we already
did the parade. It's this it's a permanent tape has
been tickered.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
Once we tick her that tape, it's over, lady. You
can't go back.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Uh huh. It's just this whole thing too.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
You've got to wonder, like, did the parents of Bobby
Dunbar know in their heart and were okay because they
just couldn't come to terms with the fact that maybe
their son was dad. Did Julia Anderson was she like,
this kid has a better life now. It's I'm fucking pissed, but.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
But I'm not going to fight that hard because he's not.
These are good people.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
Raised Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Well, okay, So apparently Julia would speak of her lost
son Bruce a lot and that the family always regarded
him as having being kidnapped by the.

Speaker 1 (01:19:31):
Dunbars, so they never got over it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
But there is an incredible this American life about this
case called the Ghost of Bobby Dunbar. It's I think
it's from like two thousand and four. I remember listening
to it and just I was like painting my bedroom
one weekend and had to sit down in the middle
of the room just to fucking listen to it because
it was so powerful. She had an incredible episode. She
definitely listen to it, and in it, Margaret Dunbar cut right.

(01:19:57):
They kind of they interview her through it. She expresses
the opinion that the real Bobby Dunbar, the kid who
went fucking camping and Swayze Lake, that he was probably
eaten by alligator. An alligator back in nineteen twelve, that's
what she thinks happened.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
WHOA.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
It kind of also reminds me of that someone knows
something season one where it's like did this kid drown
or did something happen to him? Yes, it's that sort
of thing too, where it's like he disappeared, did.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
He get kidnapped? Did he die? But she thinks that
he probably drowned or.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
Because it's a thing of like out in nature, it
could be anything. You can't even you can't even figure out,
like anything could happen, and like that idea of just
an alligator going boop and that being it, like that happens.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Also fucking Louisiana, Like, yeah, those alligators are up in there.

Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
I can't believe. See this makes an I'm upset because
when you look up the Wineville Chicken Coop murders. Yeah,
or watch the movie The Changeling. You should, then there
should be some If you like this, read about this, yeah,
because that's like so fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Yeah, old timey kidnappings and missing people fucking fascinate.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Me because there was like no DNA, no phone, barely
any photographs, yeah, barely tonics.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
Yeah. Yeah, fuck Bobby, the ghost of Bobby Dunbar. This
American life amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
That was great.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
And that was three creepy fucking missing people, insane stories.
Oh my god. Should we do our favorite thing as
what happened at our first show in Dallas? Yes, okay,
so we want you fucking tell everyone, Okay, fucking fucking
shut up up?

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Is that what I sound like?

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
No, please, I do it all the time. No, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
So we had a special guest at our Dallas show
and it was really thrilling. Jennifer Maury Caldwell, who we
talked about in episode fifty three think so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Said fifty fifties whatever. I there's a photo of it
on Instagram. It was episode thirty three.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Essentially, it was the I survived story that I retold
of the woman who lived in the gated apartment community
specifically for the security ends up waking up the Millanite
being attacked. Her powers cut, the phone's cut, a guy
stabs her, and then the nine one one operator stays
on the phone with her, and when the security guard
comes to ask to be let in, he says, don't

(01:22:29):
let him in, and it ends up that the security
guard was the person who attacked her.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
Yeah, and it's the craziest story, she tells herself.

Speaker 3 (01:22:37):
I basically just retold her version of that story as
she tells it on I Survived as an episode. We
heard from her some time after and just saying, Hi,
I heard you know whatever, I heard.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
This, which was a huge thing for us.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
I think, you know, we just didn't expect that, and
we've always kind of wondered what impact what we do
has on people, and so getting that, specifically from the
victim of this story was and it was a positive
email was so it felt so good.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
Yes, it was really nice, and it was like someone going,
I get exactly what you're doing and I approve and
it happened to me and I approve, So that and
itself was exciting. Then she lives in Dallas, so she
let us know that she tried. I think she tried
to get tickets and they were sold out.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
She was so sweet. She was like, hey, I tried
to get tickets to Dallas, but it's sold out. Do
you think maybe I.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
Was like, yes, yes, So she and her lovely family
came to our shows in Dallas and she at the
end of the show, instead of doing hometowns, we asked
her up on stage and the audience went fucking ballistic, and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
I fucking I started ugly heavy crying. We all were crying,
and I think everyone in the audience was crying. Yes,
And basically she so she we basically want to play
this moment for you. We don't want to wait until
whenever it comes up that we're going.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
To play this live episode because it was just so
cool and so I don't know, there's probably a lot
of long silences, because there's definitely the moments where we're
hugging or just crying or whatever. But it was just
really an honor and a privilege to meet her. She's
the coolest woman. She is so chill, she's a lawyer,
She's got this beautiful family who all came with her,

(01:24:21):
who were also super cool, and she also told us
backstage the nine one one operator from her story, it
was his first day on the job. It was the
second nine one one call he had ever taken, and
they ended up they were lifelong friends. She danced with
him at her wedding like he was the third person

(01:24:41):
that she danced with at her wedding, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
She it was just the coolest. We got to meet
her and talk to her. Honor to be part of this.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
So here's that moment. Now, normally this is the part
where we do a hometown but we actually tonight tonight,
we have a surprise guest for you that we're very
very excite did to bring out on stage.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
A special guest that we want to introduce you, guys
to you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
You actually you have the sense, uh you might remember
because we talked about her case on one of our episodes,
and she is here in the audience tonight with us.
I don't remember the number of she's walking down right now.
She's been in the audience with you this whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:28):
She her story was on an episode of I Survived.
Her name.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
That's Jennifer Morey Caldwell right there.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
So to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
Oh my god, I know how you guys do this.
You can turn the lights.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:26:27):
Hi, It's nice to see you guys too.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
So we when we did this episode where I all
I did was retell Jennifer's story from her words from
an episode of I Survived because I'm lazy sometimes I
just do I like to do stuff like that, but
also because the story was so incredible and the way
she told it was so incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
It's one of my favorite episodes. Sorry, sorry if you told.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
My story so beautifully that the night I heard it
my husband I drank a whole bottle of wine and
I cried.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
And I cried and I cried.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Oh God, you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Honored me when you told my story.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
Thank you. That's so nice. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Me wear those tissues, tell me day God, and they're won.
For Jennifer, it's all we have. I mean, we're talking
to see that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:33):
After that episode, you sent us an email and then
we freaked out and we couldn't believe it because a
lot of times when we do these stories and we
do this stuff, we never knew any of this part
was gonna happen. Like for a long time, we did
this podcast in George's apartment talking to each other. So
the idea that the person we're talking about responded and

(01:27:56):
was like yay. It was the most It was just
so exciting and so cool. And so then you Emailedisten
were like can I come to a show when you
come to Dallas?

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
And we're like, yeah, we can get you in right tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
So yeah. No, I'm a lawyer and.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
And if you guys know my attack story, my tack's
not part of my daily life.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
I can't let it be.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
And so I'm sitting in my office one day last
September October and I had a lawyer say to me,
your maiden names more right? And I'm like yeah, she goes,
you're attacked right, yeah, and she goes.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
There was this podcast on that USI.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
And it floored me.

Speaker 4 (01:29:01):
And so I went home that night and I told
my husband I think there's this thing, and so we
like googled and found this thing and we sat there
and listened to it and it wasn't something I was
really prepared to listen to, but I have to say again,
and I listened to it again yesterday to get ready.

(01:29:21):
You talked about me like you were my friend. And
I'm gonna cry again. It was a horrible experience, don't
get me wrong. But God has I mean a God
or whatever has has blessed me so much. And I've

(01:29:42):
got my husband, Gary and my two kids are here tonight, But.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
So everybody here.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
If you ever have anything terrible happened to you, and
unfortunately too many of us will have something terrible happen
to us, I hope it doesn't happen to you. Which
show talks a lot about anxiety. I've become a murderingo.
My daughter is fifteen and she probably shouldn't listen to

(01:30:17):
the show, but she does.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
On road trips we listen to this And.

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
Anyway, if something bad ever happens to anybody out there,
I hope you guys have something as I mean, God,
this has just been such a gift to have you
honor me, and to have people all over the world
reach out.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
To me an honor me.

Speaker 4 (01:30:37):
So thank you and what you do. We're all fascinated
and horrified by these crimes, but the way you bring
laughter to what you could cry or laugh, pick one.

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
Let's laugh. So thank you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
Yes, amazing ship.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
We are so honored to have you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:31:10):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
This has been so much to us. Thank you and
thank you guys for being here.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
And stay sexy done.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
Thanks you guys. We pun it, we pund it.