My Favorite Murder Presents: The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast - "Pivoting During a Pandemic, Inclusive Luxury Beauty Brands, & Love Your Hair with Sabrina Rowe"

My Favorite Murder presents the network premiere episode of The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast on Exactly Right! Hosts Alix Shapiro & Elizabeth Taylor kick off their launch the same way they started their show one year ago -- interviewing one of their dearest friends, resident hair and beauty guru SABRINA ROWE. Sabrina is the founder of the inclusive, sustainable, luxury beauty brand NTRL by Sabs (pronounced "natural"), and is a celebrity hair and makeup artist to clients like Phoebe Robinson, Ilana Glazer, Uzo Aduba and more.

Listen and subscribe to The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You guys were so excited to announce the network premiere
episode of the newest member of the Exactly Right family,
the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
The True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast is hosted by estheticians and
entrepreneurs Alex Shapiro and Elizabeth Taylor.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
And they're joined by experts, friends, and community members to
answer listener questions about beauty and skincare that each one
of us can relate to.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Alex and Elizabeth they also host these segments inspired by
their diverse clientele and share stories about living in a
multicultural world.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
And you can also check out their past full library
of past episodes with tons of incredible guests, discussions, and advice.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
So enjoy the Exactly Right Network premiere episode right here
and then head on over to the True Beauty Brooklyn
Podcast for a brand new episode out today and you.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Can subscribe on Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
If you like what you hear today, please write them
a review.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
And now enjoy the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Goodbye, goobbye.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
I'm Elizabeth Taylor and I'm Alex Shapiro. We're estheticians and
Williamsburg Brooklyn, and we work with really incredible, diverse, ambitious
and driven people who are killing it in life.

Speaker 5 (01:14):
They deserve to be celebrated, and on this podcast, we're
going to be sharing their stories with you. Yeah, and
in between our interview episodes, we'll have beauty School where
it's just the two of us, maybe some guest stars,
and we'll be chatting about beauty life, weird shit about
being in your thirties and learning more about one another
because that's what makes us more similar than different.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Also, we are a lot of fun and we have
a super multicultural community and we kind of think that
you might too, So why not talk about all things
beauty under one Black.

Speaker 5 (01:42):
And Jewish true Plus, we'll be answering listener questions, so
be sure to write us at True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast
at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
All right, guys, let's jump into the show. Hey guys, Hey,
it's Elizabeth and Alex.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
Welcome.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
So this is our very first episode on our brand
new network.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
So excited, super exciting.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
We're on the exactly right network, guys, But you know
that because you're listening now.

Speaker 5 (02:23):
Is in a British first second, I know I slipped
into this is my weird British accent. It's weird, but
I like it. But it wasn't full. I was like
a little bit. I don't know where it came from. Okay,
So we're obviously very excited, maybe a little nervous, I think.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
So we're just warm quote unquote warming up, which was
just as screaming at each other in weird British accents
and laughing.

Speaker 5 (02:46):
And that's how you slipped out now Queen songs exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
So that tells you everything we should know about us.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
I guess this is a little representation of like what
you'll be here. Yes, one hundred percent, this is one
hundred percent us real.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
But we do get serious at times, yes, and we
want us to just jump on here and introduce ourselves
to you and tell you who is I guess like
on the other side of these voices that you're going
to hopefully be listening to.

Speaker 5 (03:15):
Once a week. Now, you better, guys, God damn listen.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
No.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
But Alex and I are estheticians.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
We work in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we love skincare and
we're obsessed with eyebrows. But more importantly is we just,
you know, are so lucky to work and live in
the super diverse, incredible community.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
And we've made friends with.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Like just the baddest bitches that you could imagine, honestly,
from all different walks of life and all different backgrounds.
And it came a point where we were just like,
we need to let the people know about all of
our friends.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
I think being an esthetician is a really cool job
for many ways. I've been in this industry since I'm nineteen.
It's been a long time, but you just get to
know people so well, totally, so well. And I've had
clients tell me, oh my, like they told me something
and they're like, I haven't even told my therapist that.
You know. You really get to to be really intimate
with people, for sure, and we get to learn their

(04:12):
whole life stories sometimes and everyone like thirty minutes, yeah, yeah,
somehow yeah, And then yeah, we were like we need
to record it off.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Okay, So the cool thing about for sure, and Alex well,
we specialize here in intimate waxing for women. But like
you probably heard it in the promo, I wasn't lying
when I say Alex is the best waxer this side
of the East Riverally people crossbridges to come over here
to hang with her and to get waxed with her.
But because we look at a lot of vaginas for
a living every day, many times a day, we become

(04:41):
really good at just becoming like really fast friends with people,
and people, as Alex said, like open up really fast
to us. And I joke with girls like, yo, I'm
probably the closest thing that comes to your vagina besides
like your gynecologists and your boyfriends.

Speaker 5 (04:54):
So there's no worries that, like, you're.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Telling me everything about your life right now in like
the first twenty minutes of meeting.

Speaker 5 (05:00):
It's very vulnerable, but it's made my life so nice. Yeah,
I think you've got a lot of friends, a lot
of really close friends. Yeah. Some of my clients have
become very good friends of mine. Oh totally.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Once we switch over from being green friends on the
sidelines to blue friends on the iPhone made the.

Speaker 5 (05:18):
Flip flop I've got So I was like, what are
you talking? Oh, you know what I'm talking about. Y'all
know what I'm talking about. The blue bubbles. It's true,
it's true, And I hope that we get to bring
some of what we bring to the treatment room onto
the podcast. Even if you don't live in New York
and you can't come get a beauty treatment, Yeah, you
can come hang with us once.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
A week, so we will gush all about everything that
we know about skincare. I think the other really cool
thing about Alex is that I'm black. Alex is Jewish
and white.

Speaker 5 (05:46):
Samesy is different.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
No, you can be a black.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Jew Yeah, So we come from two different spectrums in
terms of melanin, in terms of sensitivities, and so we
can really teach about a lot of different skin conditions
and treatments, about a lot of dimerent therapy things you
can do at home, thinking you can do with your therapists.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
We can hopefully like help you find a beauty therapist.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
That's one of our goals is that builds like a
dope beauty community.

Speaker 5 (06:10):
Of just like bad bitches out to help each other.
Dream kind of true is what we've done. Yeah, we
want to even we want to even be worldwide, world.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Worldwide, bad bitches worldwide unite.

Speaker 5 (06:23):
Yeah, yes, I'd love that. Tonight last cheerleading. So what else?

Speaker 3 (06:32):
What else can we tell you about us.

Speaker 5 (06:34):
I'm a native New Yorker. I have to say that
because Native new Yorkers love to do that. That's true.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yes, Where am I a Native New York It's yeah, okay,
so I've been in New York City for almost twenty
years now. My grandparents, my great grandparents, and my parents
are off from New York. I was raised in upstate
New York. That wasn't by choice, al right. I would
have stayed here if it was my choice, came back
as soon as it possible. But Alex is pretty much

(07:00):
here from day one. Yeah, she escapes for a little
bit to Long Islands, but she came.

Speaker 5 (07:06):
Back, and people are always like, oh, you don't sound
like you're from Long Island. I'm like, what is what
are people's ideas of what you're supposed to sound like.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
We'll get a couple of ti heilas back in you
and you can start hearing it come out. Her step mom,
for let's just say it right now, has the greatest,
the greatest queen's accent that you could ever imagine. So
just imagine how Alex is like, oh my god when
it starts to come out.

Speaker 5 (07:31):
I love it. It's so good. It's so good I
don't even realize it. But anyway, I am really excited
for all of you to join us and get to
listen to all of the journeys that we talk about,
because totally, we do a lot of our guests. I mean,
we just have them start from the beginning of their
lives and it's so interesting to see how people's lives
play out. Totally, I hope that you get to learn

(07:54):
a lot and get some advice. Yeah, you need advice,
and you can get it from some of our guests.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
Yeah sure, I mean we can give you skincare advice
for sure, we can give you brow advice for sure,
relationship advice maybe, career advice, working on it, you know,
but we can.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
We'll do what we can for sure.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
And then the things that we can't teach you, we
bring in incredible guest experts. So we have, like we
were saying before, so many of like the smartest, most
incredible people that we're so lucky to call our friends now.
But you know, instead of just us pitching and moaning
about things, we're like, well, let's bring on somebody who
actually knows and can tell us why things are instead

(08:33):
of us just you know, making shit up and getting
more and more mad, finding solutions to problems hopefully, which
is what we really try to get to the bottom of.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
And my personal favorite part of our podcast or our segments,
I know that's like your favorite to it for sure.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
The segments is like what made me want to do
the podcast. We need to talk more about just differences
and similarities and hilarities that come within being in a
multicultural world and being in multicultural relationships and just things
that you don't know until you get to know one another,
right until you become true friends with one another, like totally.
It's one thing when it's like, oh, my friends, you

(09:08):
know so and so from class, But it's another thing
when they invite you into your home and like you see,
you know, different smells and different traditions and different you know,
all those cool things.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
But also like, let's explain our segment. Okay, So you
love them, okay, because I was just thinking that this.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
This morning, because to me, it's just I love it.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
So one of my favorite segments is called Milk with
your Dinner. And Milk with your Dinner comes because when
I was a kid growing up and probably you guys too.
Maybe you didn't notice that, maybe you didn't. But in
all of the movies in the eighties, like these white
families would have glasses of milk on their dinner table,
and I just never really like we didn't grow up

(09:49):
drinking milk out of like a whole glass of milk period,
let alone with your dinner. Like that was just never
something that would ever come across my us, our household here.

Speaker 5 (09:58):
It just didn't happen.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
And it was this thing that like I didn't do,
you know, like watching movies, I knew that things that
happened that was reflected back to me. Some things were real,
some things were false, like some things I saw within
the black community like were true, and other things were
just made up. And so this milk with your dinner thing,
I thought was one of those things that was made up.
It was just like put there to be like a
wholesome family. And then when I started dating my partner,

(10:21):
who's a white man, his ass loves milk. He love
dinner all the time, not necessarily with his dinner with
his dissert like in the middle of the day, like
this dirt erie bitch.

Speaker 5 (10:33):
I would never drink a whole glass of milk.

Speaker 4 (10:35):
Period, No, no thing I ever have, no And so
the more I would ask my friends who were also
in multiculture relationships specifically about this one.

Speaker 5 (10:42):
Thing was milk. Does your white man drink milk?

Speaker 3 (10:48):
I found more often than not they would laugh and
be like, bitch, what is.

Speaker 5 (10:51):
With white guys and milk? It's a thing.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
It's a thing, And so it just became this funny
thing that we'd laugh about.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
But I would think, what else is out there that
we can just like laugh about about differences? Like there's
so many things like what hair? If you're a woman
of color, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Black ladies,
put your hands in the air. We don't leave the
house with our hair wet, never, not once.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
We just don't do it.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Growing up in a small town, we were the only
black family, and I would always see like white girls
at school with wet hair, and I was just like,
this is so fucking fascinating.

Speaker 5 (11:27):
And then what do you do? Just drives like that,
so super silly.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
But just ways, I think that we can talk and
laugh and get to know each other and become more,
you know, working more.

Speaker 5 (11:42):
Towards a more perfect union. Do you want to be
like you really like learn about each other. Nothing to
learn about going to school with your hair wet. You're
just going to school with your hair wet because you're
lazy or you're late.

Speaker 6 (11:54):
But you could.

Speaker 5 (11:55):
That was the difference, is that you could. You know
that that's pre like some background I could tell you,
Like when you've told me about how you care for
your hair. There's like a science to all of it.
There's you mean, white supremacy. Yes, but even when you
were like, yes, I sleep at the bonnet because it

(12:15):
doesn't get my hair messed up. Yes, why do you
go to school with your hair wet? I have no reason.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Because your mama stopped sleeping with the bonnet. That was
the problem.

Speaker 5 (12:22):
Y'all stop going to bed with your hair and curlers
and the bonnet.

Speaker 6 (12:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Do you see, guys, we learned about bonnets together. I'm
not gonna lie.

Speaker 5 (12:28):
I've come to work once or twice with my hair wet,
and I'm like, don't judge me.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
I'm sorry, no, but it's fun.

Speaker 5 (12:39):
And we learned a ton which is so great. We do. Yes.
Our other segment, which I really love, is I didn't
know then, but I'm older now. Yes, and it's when
we discuss things that we did when we were younger.
Sometimes it's just something we used to do, like a
couple of years ago exactly.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Sometimes it was last week.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
But mostly I know for myself, it's like things I
did as a preteen or like an early teen, liken't
twenties or twenties. Yeah, either like weird fashion decisions or
just like dumb should I would do? Yes?

Speaker 4 (13:07):
Or just terrible life decisions like letting that man tickle
your feet through the window that happened in community college.

Speaker 5 (13:12):
When he told you that happened. No, No, that happened
there people out there. You know, you're just young sometimes
and you don't know stuff.

Speaker 7 (13:23):
No.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
But then we had a great guest son who told
us about the time that the man asked her to
stand on her his chest and came to find out
that that was some sort of fetish What was it
like stomping? Crushing something stomping called stomping?

Speaker 5 (13:35):
You see.

Speaker 4 (13:36):
So, guys, the more we share, the more we learn.
I'll just how fetish guy. Our friends Kirsten had stomping
fetish guy. Now, y'all, bitches, no, don't let men touch
you in weird places. Also that was the weird early odds.
Maybe young people know better now.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
In life that wasn't the same.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Maybe your Nokia fucking phone like didn't have enough like minutes.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Yeah, no minute. Yeah, you can't even call nobody girl nights
and weekends, you know. So what else?

Speaker 4 (14:07):
Okay, So this episode that we're sharing with you guys
today is really special because another fun thing that we
do monthly is we have our beauty guru bestie, Sabrina
Roholdsworth sat By. SABS is an incredible celebrity hair and
makeup artist. She did your and my makeup for the
artwork that y'all are looking at, and her hair.

Speaker 5 (14:28):
And she works with all of your faves, favees.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
She works with Phoebe Robinson, she works with a lot
of glazier, she works with fucking all your faves, faves, everybody.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
So we're so lucky that we get.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
To call her a good friend and she comes to
answer you guys's listener letters, all of your beauty questions,
your skincare questions, you hear questions, you nail questions. Whatever
you guys got, we can't answer it, SABS can answer it. Yes,
And SABS also happens to be the owner of Natural
by Sabs, an incredible hair and skincare line. So today
you guys are want to learn about Natural by Sabs

(15:00):
when any.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
Of you are little friends. I love it. It's a
great product line.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
It's an incredible product line. It's for all types of
curly hair.

Speaker 5 (15:08):
So I have.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
You know kinky curly African American hair, black hair. Alex
has wavy, beautiful blonde hair that's really nice.

Speaker 5 (15:18):
Yours really dried out from bleaching it and it's more
straight than anything. When I'm lucky, it gets a wave. No,
it's wavy, it's wavy and cooligeous.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
But we both have products that Sabs Natural by Sabs,
we can use in our hair.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
We both use the shampoo.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
I don't think that's really been done where like a
line truly can be used on anyone. Yes, for sure.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
My boyfriend loves is his UH soap on a rope
as he calls it his shampoo bar. But she just
makes incredible hair and skincare products, and so we thought
that we'd have Sabs on today, speaking from a business
standpoint as an entrepreneur, introduce her to you guys, and
then you get to hear I guess like the trifecta
of you can expect on the show for sure, at

(16:00):
least once a month, the three of us, always the
two of us.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Sometimes we have some other guests.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
Us too, so that's it. It's real fun.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
So you guys, thank you so much for tuning in
to our very first episode on the exactly Right network.
I'm getting really emotional right now. I'm going to try
not to cry. Excited and we were just excited to
be here. So listen to our episode. Thanks for listening.
We'll see you guys in the outro.

Speaker 5 (16:26):
And we love you guys on the side.

Speaker 6 (16:29):
Bye.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
So sab So, you were our Inaull Girl guests for
the first episode ever, ever, ever of the True Beauty
Brooklyn Podcast, and we were just talking about how we
just you know, I was like, can I just come over,
you can do my hair and tell me about your
life and now look where we are.

Speaker 7 (16:59):
I know.

Speaker 5 (16:59):
I love that. That was the first episode I know,
and that was a new first.

Speaker 7 (17:05):
I know. I'm really excited. I was really happy that
you guys asked me to do it. You have had
access to some incredible people, but I'm better than them now. Way,
it's a lot and you know, you could have asked anyone,
and I appreciate that you guys asked me.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
Oh, I love you.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
And also I think that we have a really I
don't know. I think the peoples like to hear us
all together. My sister tells me that they're her favorite
episodes when the three of us are together, because we're funny,
because are really fun probably because we're really friends exactly exactly,
so that's very easy.

Speaker 7 (17:40):
Yeah around, It's true, it's true.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
It's literally what we do is fuck around. Okay, So
why don't we start at the beginning. Even though you
told our listeners before about the beginning of your journey,
I feel like, let's we're introducing you the first time.
I guess is like this fantastic celebrity hair and makeup artist,
and now you still are those things, but you have
your incredible line and you're starting a different I know, I'm.

Speaker 7 (18:05):
Now a founder. I don't know. It's it's so interesting
because the brand, the beauty brand, is under my existing
business and I did that on purpose, because I started
a new business during a pandemic like a psychopath. You know, eventually,
someday it'll have to be its own entity, but for

(18:27):
now it is under my existing business. And you know,
I was like, how am I going to put this
on Instagram? Like you know when you're like describing yourself.
I hate doing that part obviously. I don't like the heat.
I don't want that smoke, don't I don't love that
kind of attention. But at the end of the day,

(18:48):
these are my formulations. This is my baby. It means
the world to me. I know that I'm super privileged
to have been able to do this in a time
where so many people lost their jobs. And I was like,
I'm going to use all the money that I have
and turn them into the little black bottles of products,

(19:09):
because again, I'm a psychopath. So I was talking to
a friend and she was like, you're you know, you
founded a brand. I was like, Oh, that's that is
what I did. I founded a brand, but a big deal. Yeah.
I don't know if I have myself listed as founder
or mother what it is, but it is a big deal.

(19:31):
Well that's what I wanted to put mother because everybody's
always like, oh, you're happily married, where are the kids?
And I'm like, that's why I'm happily married.

Speaker 5 (19:41):
I don't try to sell me. Honestly, can I say
something real fast about the natural Bisavs nursing conditioner. So remember,
I bought a second one off of you, and then
I moved and I've been living in Limbo, and I
had used the very last my old bottle, and I
didn't know where I had packed the new one, and

(20:02):
I just didn't wash my hair from many day because
I didn't want to use anything else. I've gotten very
attached to it. And when I found it two days ago,
the way that I yelled out Kyle was like, what happened?
Am I just hair conditioners?

Speaker 7 (20:18):
That's great, and I'm glad that you love it as
much as I do. It certainly loves your tresses because
the ends of your hair are looking not ratchet at all.

Speaker 5 (20:27):
It's honestly not ratchet.

Speaker 7 (20:30):
It will take color like we didn't overlap like. I
just think it's one step in the right direction of
your hair journey.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
Gal, who's just great with color. It's just like the gray.
It's just great.

Speaker 7 (20:43):
But I have to give credit to all of the beautiful,
incredible colors that train me and let me watch them
and you know, listen to my you know, million questions
because I'm so painfully annoying when I'm trying to learn something.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Okay, so sab so take us from take us to
the beginning, take us to start from.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
The beginning, and will work your way or work.

Speaker 5 (21:09):
Our way forward.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
I know, like we were saying before, like you did
this once before, but why don't we just they kind
of do it one more time for the people who
maybe didn't listen to episode one, but then take us
in the middle of your journey listen.

Speaker 7 (21:22):
Because I'm like, y'all can listen to that episode.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
How are we going to take up how are we
going to take up your time here?

Speaker 7 (21:30):
I mean there's talk about you could just talk about
condition you don't need to talk about, like Mike.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
We talk about how you want to and we can
direct them. We can direct the We'll direct them to
the first episode. But it doesn't matter you you are
being broadcast.

Speaker 7 (21:46):
Such an organic moment.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Like you would feel just start look you, we love you, sas.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
But this is the format.

Speaker 5 (21:52):
What's your name? Who are you? Where are you from?

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Start at the beginning, just trying to.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Bye, like you know me?

Speaker 7 (22:00):
Did you know me?

Speaker 5 (22:00):
You will look me up?

Speaker 7 (22:01):
Google me?

Speaker 5 (22:02):
No?

Speaker 7 (22:04):
Actually that was my client. My old client, Jess White
said that on an episode of Like Tyrell on TV,
like who is you? And she was like google me
and then she told me it was like a scripted
reality show. Oh I love that anyway. So my name
is Sabrina Roe Holdsworth, which is my married name. It

(22:24):
used to be just Sabrina Roe, which for business it
is still Sabrina Row. Shout out to Winston. I'm very
I'm a very proud daughter. I am originally from the Bronx,
New York. I am one New Yorker through and through.
I was born to two Latin parents. One is Puerto Rican.

(22:45):
My mom is from Puerto Rico and my dad is
from Panama. So's Afro Latino. And he just is like,
I'm black, y'all, I'm African. He very much doesn't subscribe.
He's like, I'm black. Yeah, you don't need to know
anything else. He won't even speak Spanish to strangers. Yeah,
he gave that up years ago. He's like, no, I've

(23:06):
had enough trouble. I'm just going to be black, leave
me alone. The Limbo wasn't cute. I get it. I
live in Limbo, but yeah, I am a third generation
hair stylist. So my grandmother was the first, but I'm
sure there's plenty more because like I have a cousin
who is a barber. Like, it's very much a Latin
thing to do hair, and so my mother did hair,

(23:28):
and where my grandmother's passion was hair, my mom did
it because it was a job. She immediately had a
job in her mother's salon.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
And oh, was your grandma up in the Bronx doing hair?

Speaker 7 (23:39):
No, No, they were in Chicago. They eventually came to
New York, but she worked in Puerto Rico, then from
Puerto Rico to like a quick pitstop in New York,
and then they my mom grew up actually in Chicago
and went to high school there, which is so bizarre,
and then came back to New York. So my grandma

(24:00):
had salons in both Chicago and I believe in New
York she was born. So I don't like have full
tea on her. Full disclosure. She was welcoming of the melanin,
So we never really got that deep about her because
I think it was a source of screen in my parents' relationship.

(24:25):
But anyway, yeah, so one would say that hair, you know,
or beauty rather was in my bones because before I
wanted to be a hair stylist, I just happened to
be good at it because I had mixed texture. And
you know, at the time, growing up in the eighties
and nineties, I didn't There wasn't a lot of I mean,

(24:47):
there were certainly plenty of mixed kids, but there wasn't
like you know, now we have brands called mixed Chick,
Like it is very much uh you know, a relevant
conversation all of the different iterations of Carl. Yeah, where
you're like black or you're Puerto Rican, and so either
you have black hair or you have Puerto Rican hair,
and so I had sort of the mix where.

Speaker 8 (25:11):
It is extremely fine, curly hair.

Speaker 7 (25:14):
So now like you know, it's very clear people like, oh, yeah,
you have mixed your mix, right, you know. Then it
was like was your hair so soft you must got
Indian and your fans?

Speaker 5 (25:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
But two was back back in the day there like
even I mean I grew up in the middle of nowhere,
so when we got a shelf in a Walmart, it
was a very big deal. But like there wasn't I mean,
there was like blue Magic, there was like the pink.

Speaker 7 (25:38):
Of course, there was Queen Helene baby Queen. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
And then that's not even before we started talking about
the relaxers, right, Like, there just wasn't.

Speaker 5 (25:48):
From the ethnic section.

Speaker 7 (25:50):
Oh you have scared, kid scared.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
He's like, I'm gonna have black friends, like I'm a
grease my scalp tonight.

Speaker 7 (25:59):
That's right. You're like, I don't know what edges are yet,
but I will.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
I just remember being like, I need something for my
dry ends, and this seems like it will work.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, how'd it work?

Speaker 5 (26:14):
It was great? Do you see?

Speaker 4 (26:16):
But but there wasn't a ton There just wasn't at
the time. There wasn't a lot of different types of
product at all. Like we all had a big joke
about about about like frizzies, like three girls with three
different types of hair, and all.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
Of us cvs like.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yo, can I get the frizzies? Is it going to
make my hair beautiful and shiny? And Chloe like this
leak okay, but.

Speaker 7 (26:35):
Also full disclosure the picture that they do, like the
before like you're crazy frizzy hair, and then after I'm like, guys, yeah, no,
don't do that to black children. That's rude as hell.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Yeah, honestly, you don't like there's a straighter, no straightener,
Like she didn't blow dry that ship like they package
that like you ran it through your hair.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
And that was it. You were a mermaid. So you
know my hair pretty well. You know my hair very well.
But when I was like going through puberty, my hair
was very strange. It was very wavy and unruly and
frizzy just for like a couple of years. And I
remember buying like Frizzies made some like creamy product that

(27:24):
you pumped down.

Speaker 7 (27:25):
The pump pump.

Speaker 5 (27:26):
It made my hair just look greasy and frizzy like it.

Speaker 7 (27:30):
Was yeah, because it wasn't heavy enough. I know, Like
now obviously that I know about product, I have a
completely different sort of uh an impression of the product.
I realized, like, okay, this is what was not happening.
It wasn't heavy enough to weigh down the frizz, but
it was oil in enough to make your hair up

(27:51):
here oily. So it was like string a mulsifier.

Speaker 5 (27:56):
And was it just silicons, Yes.

Speaker 7 (27:59):
But it's I mean, obviously I don't know the exact formula,
so I don't want to go too deep, but it
just it was it was a good idea just not
executed well well, and it.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Was like what else was there at the time? You know,
It's funny.

Speaker 7 (28:13):
The thing is that Frizzies did work for some people.
So if you were lucky to fall into that category,
you're like, this is the truth.

Speaker 5 (28:22):
Who was it?

Speaker 7 (28:23):
This stuff is amazing. I had a woman maybe six
or seven years ago, and that seems like a long
time when I say it now, because we've had such
a fucked up year the year like aged just all
for ten years. But she brought in She was from overseas,

(28:45):
from London, and she bought me Frizzies for her blow
dry and I was like, okay, I don't know. I
remember seeing her walking down the block and I was like,
you know, She's like yeah, because this may my blow
dry last really long. And all I was thinking was yes,
perhaps in London where the water is different and the

(29:08):
humidity acts differently. Clip to gave her her blow drug.
She was like, it is quite expensive for a blow drug.

Speaker 5 (29:16):
Not here, welcome gave her blow drug.

Speaker 7 (29:21):
I remember seeing her like two days later with her
hair curly, walking with her man and I was like, yeah,
I sold you the one. The last you thought you
were going to get that same situation right in.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
Humidity and all these in New.

Speaker 7 (29:36):
York is very different. Like I said, there were plenty
of women that were like crazies is the truth.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
Right, but yeah, not in New York. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:47):
So you're growing up in the Bronx and you are
when you're in high school. Is that when you started
to kind of like toy run with hair because as
you're kind of taking us down and saying that your hair,
you know, didn't really into anyone category. So did you
take it upon yourself to figure it out?

Speaker 7 (30:04):
I would not say that I figured anything out. I
think I was experimenting. And I went to an art school,
So makeup and like wig work and you know, sort
of character stuff was my curriculum. Yeah. Nice, nice nice
LaGuardia for the Performing Arts, which, yeah, y'all know, the

(30:27):
Fame school. I did not graduate, though, Like I just
want full disclosure because I think everybody gets super excited.

Speaker 8 (30:33):
And I'm like, oh my god, I went there.

Speaker 7 (30:35):
Oh I wanted to go there, and like I was
not some like success story out of Laguardian had like
you know, a Timothy shallow May moment, Like no child.
I went to LaGuardia. Like a lot of la Guardians
appreciated the program, but I was going through a lot
of personal shit at home, so I did not make
it to continue. Like I didn't finish. I dropped out

(30:55):
and got my ged and then I really like went
hard and like trying to figure out a job in
a situation. And that's when all that stuff that I've
learned there became like, okay, so this will just be
my passing through stuff. Like I didn't go to prom.
I did some of my friends for prom, you know,
and like instead of having a sweet sixteen or a kinset,

(31:18):
which you know, not Mexican, but like, you know, my
parents were like, you can have a sweet sixteen, I
was like, no, I want a box of makeup, like
I wanted to kid very like, listen, I'm gonna be
famous someday, so I need to be able to make
myself look good because I don't think anybody's gonna be
able to handle my all this.

Speaker 5 (31:37):
Nobody can handle all this.

Speaker 7 (31:38):
Really, which is totally not true. There are plenty of
incredibly talented hair and makeup bard but you know, I
so insecure, and you know, just having a mom that
didn't understand my hair, and you know, my sister's hair
texture was different. Like I'm I'm I come from a
big family and we all have different hair being mixed.
So it was like, you know, from like four for

(32:00):
c to like two, you know, like it was a
run of the gamut. And for those of you that
don't know what those numbers mean, it just means from
like as coiled curly as possible to as straight, like
as straight of a wave you could imagine possible. So
you know, you lay on it and it's straight in

(32:22):
a portytail and it falls straight right right right that
it's not really a wave, but it's enough that we
can mention that it's a wave.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Right, okay, And then so so all right, continue, so
you're what was next for you after like high school
and like you got your kit from.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Your mom and then like where did you?

Speaker 7 (32:43):
Well, that was the start of my kit because that
that wasn't like my real kid, It was just like
it really like wet my palette and got me like
really into sort of playing with makeup and playing with
realizing that like it could be a supplement you know,
of my income, and so like a fast forward because

(33:05):
I don't really want to like rehash every step in
my It's like, yeah, not my fuzzy warm place, YEA
take us where you want to spad twenty years doing
this shit.

Speaker 8 (33:14):
So it basically like it really.

Speaker 7 (33:18):
Sort of set off when my mom fell ill with
cancer and then I realized like, okay, I have to
step up for my family and I've got to be
an adult now, which just meant like, you know, the
money I made wasn't just mine. Like the money I
made was for me to help my dad, for you know,
for my siblings to feel that pressure, because like my

(33:41):
sister was going to college and like trying to figure
out her shit. My brothers were still still in parochial
high school and I had to help them, you know,
with their tuition and stuff. And I realized like, okay,
like I can actually make money doing this. And even
like even at that point, I still thought it was

(34:01):
like a pause. I did not It took me so
long to realize, like, girl, this is your life now.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
What did you think that you were going to do?

Speaker 7 (34:07):
What was the I thought I was going to be
an actress, singer, dancer, lawyer. Yeah, I was like if
I don't you know, do you like work in performing arts.
I was like, I'm gonna actually finish college and go
to law school and that is one hundred Now what happened.
I've dropped in for a million classes and I can

(34:29):
probably fake it really well. But yeah, she's no lawyer,
but she can work pretty well.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
There's a lot there's like so many there's too many
lawyers right now from what I understand in this country.
So yeah, I think you dodged it, made a good choice,
but I think you made I think, yeah, I think so.
I've been talking to a lot of people because this
is a path that I hear a lot of, specifically.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Women, because I work with women.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
Like, if you have a certain amount of like intelligence,
and you are in a place in your life where
like you're not necessarily sure where you want to go,
I think law school is like sort of an obvious.

Speaker 7 (35:00):
There's going to.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, just like, well, there's a lot of I.

Speaker 7 (35:04):
Can continue, you can use it for so many things exactly.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
So I know a lot of women that are similar
to us, that like almost went down that path or
were very close to going down that path. We've spoken.
I took the fucking else had three times. Bitch thought
she was going to law school, and.

Speaker 7 (35:17):
I like, so it's like that for me. When you
told me that, I was like, see that makes sense.

Speaker 5 (35:23):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
But I say that because I don't think I'm happy
that it wasn't the path that you took. You know,
I'm happy that wasn't the path that ended up for you,
honestly because.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I hear you say that is so meant for you. Yes,
I think so too.

Speaker 5 (35:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean a really good.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (35:47):
It's hard I think when you come from you know,
parents that are born I mean, like my mom is technically,
you know, was born a citizen, but because it's still
like a territory and not like mainland, you know, there
is that immigrant mentality that's forever etched in her mind
and my father's mind being born out of the country,

(36:09):
born and raised because my dad come to the States
till he was thirty. Wow. Yeah, and you know, obviously
in wanting to make them proud, it's like be famous,
which is a good mentality thing.

Speaker 5 (36:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (36:23):
I think any person of color that's come from the
hood and like has a little bit of skill doing anything,
whether it be singing or dancing or acting or drawing,
or you're like be famous because this is like, you know,
you think it's like this quick pipeline to money and
see everybody and buy everybody house, but in reality, well
you end up doing I mean, sometimes yes, they win

(36:46):
and they become famous and they love it and it's
great and whatever, but a lot of times it's you know,
you're like, you just want to do something that makes
them proud. Yes, and every sacrifice that they've made worth it, yes,
some degree. And so while I.

Speaker 8 (37:01):
Am extremely proud of what I've done, I.

Speaker 7 (37:06):
Think that there's always gonna be a little bit of
a chip on my shoulder because I was a little
bit like a nerd that I didn't do something more
like socially impactful, like yeah, where I love my job.
And the thing is like when you go through a
global pandemic, you realize like you just play with curls
and lipstick, like you're literally not saving anybodyship. And when

(37:28):
the chips all fell and we realized like who actually
is essential? That was where I was like, oh my god,
I am so not essential, even though I think what
I do carry value, it's that bid and what can
I do to like, you know, use what I know

(37:49):
and marry the scientific part of my brain and the
creative part of my brain and.

Speaker 8 (37:56):
Do something, you know, do something that I feel will be.

Speaker 7 (38:00):
Important without having to touch people because you know, for
a long time, like I was legally not allowed, we're
not allowed to touch people. And I've touched people for
twenty years. So it's like, you know, one of those things.
I mean over twenty years, but twenty years. I say
that because I've been credited for twenty years. Like I

(38:23):
count the year that I was first published as my
first year, but I was doing hair and makeup, you know,
easily six years before that. Just like you know, it
was trash that first five years, ten years was trash.
I feel like I just got good ten years ago.
But that's how my brand was born natural. Myselbs was

(38:47):
born out of like the need for me to do
something that was passive that you know, allowed me to
utilize the scientific part of what I've learned in this
business and through my studies all over the world and
be able to fill a hole that I thought should
be filled in the in the beauty business and to

(39:09):
be you know, a true entrepreneur and show I'm gonna
get emotional, I'm p messing so please do not It's okay, no,
I know, but I don't love that. But it was
really important for me to show other children of immigrant

(39:31):
parents that, you know, even if it isn't you're not
the lawyer, engineer, doctor that a lot of them want you.
You can do something and be be the first to
do something. You know, I'm the first in my family
to start a brand. I'm the first, and and that
that I formulated myself, which is insane, you know, and

(39:56):
I am super proud of that.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
D In the middle of the pandemic, I would call
Sabs like what are you doing. She's like, bitch, I'm
learning chemistry.

Speaker 5 (40:04):
Get off the phone. I can't talk to you right now.
And I'm like, all right, girl, let me know.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
I know.

Speaker 7 (40:09):
I was like, I'm like, I cannot talk. I'm sorry,
literally like with beakers right now.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
Yeah, which is so awesome.

Speaker 5 (40:18):
It's so so awesome. Was that part of your inspiration
for starting this line or what kind of was this
something you wanted to do like forever and you just never.

Speaker 7 (40:27):
Have time to But I never I honestly thought I
would do it, Like when I was much older. I
was like, yeah, it's something that I'll toy around with
when I'm older and I like have more of a
name so that people are like, oh, she did it,
I'm buying it. Done Because just being a part of
this industry and entertainment and beauty, I'm very aware of,

(40:50):
Like the bottom line, people love to be told what
to do, especially love to be told what to do
by a familiar face, Tarag getting care of Taraji's here,
what it's doing. Well, Yeah, we don't know Taraji for hair,
uh like, but we love her hair, yes, and we
love her looks and we love what she saves. So

(41:10):
we're like week signed Taraji.

Speaker 5 (41:12):
Totally, you know.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
And and also on an age like a lot of misinformation,
there's like the consumer is very smart right now and
all they have to do is turn over the bottle
and do a Google. And so people want to know
who's selling, Like who's making this product that I'm buying?
Do I believe them and the ingredients that they're putting.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
In it exactly so I will use it?

Speaker 7 (41:34):
That's it? Like, And to your point, which I think
is really important, which I definitely want to touch on,
is how the buyer is smart. Yes, the buyer is
much more educated, like more than any other time before.
But I will say that this is a double edged
sword because I in my own education, formulation education and

(41:57):
chemistry education, a lot of times what you read on
the bottle A you don't know the percentages. B you
don't know what that product does. And we know these names,
some of them, we know the names to do something different.
So for example, alcohol, like in black hair care, we're

(42:17):
all like, no alcohol. I don't want no alcohol, ladies,
Yes you do. Alcohol is a preservative. It is a
naturally occurring preservative. It is not drying your product out
because you'd have no product. It is helping preserve your
products so we can use less garbage in that product.

(42:39):
So yes, you do. It can't all be oil. It
is going to rot. But that's the thing is like
you want it natural, you want it with crazy results,
and you want it to last for the four years
that it stays in your cat seen other products. Yes,
and I'm sorry, but that's just not the case. Like
for me, I was like like which I do for

(43:00):
my line, use almost entirely organic or like organic substitute
or acceptably used products like ingredients and everything. But I
can't could not afford to get all of my products
examined to get this stamp of like USDA organ Like

(43:22):
people don't realize that. I'm like, it's like you you
want it to be natural and you want it to
be amazing, and it's like I am using those ingredients,
but it doesn't matter. The point is at the end,
and this is where I'm like systemic, Like there are
so many things to say about why we have what
we have as a people, especially as a black people,
Like I need that aren't with money. I need that

(43:46):
uncle with money, I don't have that. So basically I
use my entire life savings to create a brand that
I'm proud of. But I can't even tell you that
all the products are organic because I can't afford to.
This is the reality that I live in. And it
made me check myself because I'm like, look at all
these products that A first of all, like we've all

(44:07):
used ship, Like, we've all used garbage daily, use garbage.
Nobody's not using some kind of garbage, yes, whether it
be their toothpaste or whatever. Yes, but we're comfortable with
that garbage. But because like you know, if you we're
like bloggers who like rip you know ingredients to shreds
and like I'll tell you, oh, this is what this does.

(44:28):
And I'm like, queen, are you a for me? Like yes,
nowhere percentage that this person is working with it?

Speaker 3 (44:33):
Just do you even know hair?

Speaker 5 (44:34):
Do you even know hair? Don't your own hair? Yes? Yes?

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yes, yes, And you just know what you're saying that.

Speaker 7 (44:43):
Your hair dress. And it's like, no, we don't get
to like pick and choose who sits on our chair
all the time. Yes. Yes, I a very diverse share,
which means I've had every race, every religion, every creed.
I have a private studio, so I have many women
in hey.

Speaker 8 (44:58):
Job come here and their hair done.

Speaker 7 (45:00):
I have met Jewish clients who send me their wigs
or coming here for their wigs, Like this is a reality.
I know things about scalps that like people would not
want me to share, you know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (45:11):
Yeah, So there's just always so much.

Speaker 7 (45:14):
More to the story.

Speaker 8 (45:15):
And we get very hung up on canceling and this.

Speaker 7 (45:20):
Is good and this is bad, And I'm like every
different strokes for different folks, and we need to remember
that this is a capitalist country and there is a
lot that goes into someone bringing a product to market. Yeah, yeah,
like I'm small. People like, oh, are You're gonna be
retailing in a bunch of no guys. Do I want
to get picked up by the targets and sophar As

(45:42):
and et cetera, the big box retailers. Yes, someday, but
it means that I would need the amount of product
that this little pocket cannot afford. She cannot afford. I
don't believe in going to going into heavy debt to
make this a reality.

Speaker 8 (45:57):
Like I'm in comfortable debt now, you know, you know
I wasn't before.

Speaker 7 (46:02):
You know, well, it's a lot of optics right.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
Oftentimes it's like the you know, I remember my cousin,
My little cousin came to New York for the first
time a couple like maybe last.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
Christmas, and she's like, oh, girl, you know looking.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Up at the buildings, don't you want to don't you
want a true beauty up there?

Speaker 4 (46:15):
I said, bitch, No, I want my overhead to be
as low as possible, like when I first started. Yes,
I wanted all these big things. I want, you know,
the glass, all this shit to show. Bitch, I want
to make money. I don't care what the optics are.

Speaker 7 (46:26):
And it's exactly, yes, and a.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
Lot of stars.

Speaker 7 (46:29):
Yes. Yes. Is that when you sell to big retailers
like that, the margin is terrible, which means what you
make on each item is so low that basically all
it is is broad advertising. Yes, it is the way
that you put into a business plan. Here, give me
more money because these people want my product. That's all

(46:53):
it is. Like it takes so long for you to
actually go green from the red, and like natural isn't
anywhere near there. But I am so incredibly proud of
what's inside these products, So I'm not in a rush.
I'm not in a rush to bring more products to market.
Everybody's asking me about styling, styling, styling. I'm like, here's

(47:14):
the thing. As a hairstylist and a cosmetologist of many years,
what I think is the most important thing, And every
stylist that is sat behind a chair in a salon
will agree with me. Is it starts with your shampoo
and conditioning ritual. That's where it starts. Healthy hair is

(47:36):
not something I can give you. Healthy the practice between you,
the products you choose to put in your hair, the
things you put in your mouth, and you drink and
you smoke, et cetera, and then the treatments that you
apply to said hair, like it's not a one step process,
and it really the great responsibility rely in the user,

(48:01):
in the consumer. And I know it's like everybody wants
me to be like, yes, my product is going to
save you, and it may band aid the situation because
they are incredible products. But if you have terrible like
shampoo and conditioning, basically, if you have poor habits, which
means you don't shampoo enough, you you know, shampoo too much,

(48:23):
you under condition, you over condition, you eat poorly, you
party every week, every weekend, every night. However, like no judgment,
but don't expect to have healthy anything and product is that.
I'm like, I've done it all the ways, guys, I've
done the legwork for you, bottomless nice. Yes, I don't

(48:47):
have easy hair. I've never had easy hair. Good product
makes me feel better about life, but it never will
solve the fact that I have not easy hair. To
maintain curly hair is it is high maintenance. We don't
live in the bush and we don't live in a
society where our hair can just be what it is like.
We have to whip it into submission because this is

(49:09):
what we have been conditioned to do, and so that's
why she got locks on her head. I'm like, I'm
done subscribing to the like western ideals. I love these locks.
I don't like I have my model today ask me
if my hair is real? And I'm like, why is
it relevant? I just put all this faction on your face.

Speaker 5 (49:30):
Yeah, yeah, it's your face real.

Speaker 7 (49:34):
But you know what I mean, this is something that
as a black woman especially and as a woman in
general and beauty, you constantly have to come come up against.
And it's like she didn't mean anything by its non American, Like,
you know, she her English is not great, but you know,
she just was curious. She was curious, and you know,

(49:56):
it wasn't my time to teach her a lesson in
this was I'm like, you wouldn't want anybody to ask
you what you are, or you.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Wouldn't want anybody ask you like if your hair speak.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
I could never imagine asking somebody like because you're black.

Speaker 7 (50:12):
Because you're black. It doesn't occur to us because we
don't We're not in the position to ask stupid questions
like that. I'm sorry, lady, Like.

Speaker 8 (50:21):
Listeners, I love you, and I appreciate you being curious.

Speaker 7 (50:24):
But that's what fucking Google is for. Do not disrespect
any black or brown woman. If you don't fucking know
look it up. Don't ask her. She's not here to
teach you about her hair.

Speaker 5 (50:34):
So why can't people just say, I love your hair,
thank you enough.

Speaker 7 (50:38):
To be like that's what she said after I love
your hair. Why did you need to know if it
was real? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (50:43):
Wait, real quick. I had a client the other day
who was black, and she was saying how She's like,
I really have been loving, like experimenting with different wigs,
and she's like, I do it myself, so it doesn't
look good. You could see the lace or whatever. And
she was that. I was like and I was like,
oh yeah, I'm like, but I didn't notice that. She's like,
you didn't notice. I'm like, I don't know. I'm white.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
And that's because I don't wear something I would notice.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Yeah, and she was dying and I'm like, I now,
but like, it's because her girlfriends probably drag her ass, like.

Speaker 7 (51:12):
Black when we will drag each other to filth like
and it's also that is also conditioning, is we don't
let each other shine. We don't let each other shine.
That's also part of it, and so we make it
a joke like obviously like we do it to each other.

Speaker 5 (51:25):
I love you to like the opposite Sas.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Wait, first of all, wait, I just have to say something, Sabs,
you're not not letting me shine by telling me no.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
Letting and you're letting me shine.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
It's the opposite.

Speaker 5 (51:39):
You're the girl, but why are you doing that to yourself?

Speaker 7 (51:42):
Friends, how we like drag each other and we're like
a on one side, we always want the best, like
you know, we expect the best from the people that
are around us, yes, the people that we care for.
But then be like it is also a traumatic conditioning
that we have encountered with a black women that we
we are always the butt of a joke. Therefore we

(52:03):
can't just like let us just the rock. If her
lace is like slipping, like if her lace is peeling up,
like you have to be the one to like lay
it on her. And it's like why like granted, yes,
I want you to tell me if my lace is no,
I know.

Speaker 6 (52:17):
What you mean.

Speaker 5 (52:18):
No, I know exactly what you mean.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
Because it always comes down to like it's one of
the first things that you and I spoke about when
we were talking. One of our first conversations Alex and
I had, I was talking to her about like a
hair wrap, and she's like, what's a hair rap? And
I was like, you've seen women walking around with their
hair wrapped. You probably just thought that it was a hairstyle.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
You didn't know what they're doing.

Speaker 4 (52:35):
But like if my mama saw me walking around my
hair wrap, she whoop my ass And she's like why,
And I said, well, because she'd say what would white
people think?

Speaker 3 (52:41):
And Alex was like, but why, Like just it didn't click.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
And then I thought, well, you're right, like in saying
this out loud, it doesn't make sense, but it's conditioning
in that, like we have to present ourselves. And you
even said that, You're like what because so you can
actually be taken seriously, like as a human.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
It doesn't make any sense, Yeah, but like, yes, but
that is what it is.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
You know, when you say it out loud like that,
it sounds ridiculous, but it isn't, because this is the
society that we live in.

Speaker 7 (53:06):
You know exactly, Yeah, and we're just all trying to
like stay alive in it. And it's not to me
it's really I think it's super important, you know, to
remind I don't know, I just love to talk have
these conversations and call it what it is, like you know,

(53:27):
the joking and like all that stuff like that we
do because it is still a source of pain for
a lot of women. There are still many women that
wake up every day, and I'm sure there are men too,
but I more care about the women because I'm sorry,
like we're we're really at the bottom bottom of it
all that, you know, wake up and they hate their

(53:49):
hair and they that they look and hair and and
this is sort of like what you know, when I realized, like, wow,
I'm like fully in live with this thing. Hair is
a way for us to like describe each other. It's

(54:09):
one of the, if not the first thing that anyone
notices about you is your hair, Like you can. For example,
I was watching it like it was like a docu
series or whatever, and it was one of those crime shows,
crime shows, crime shows, but it was basically about how

(54:32):
like you know, in the line up, uh what they're
called the ones that draw the like when you're doing yeah,
the police sketch. They have a name. I don't know
if it's like, oh, I don't want to think this

(54:53):
guy they were interviewing was saying hair is one of
the like best sort of usually one of the most
accurate things that people describe because it's the thing that
leaves the longest impression.

Speaker 5 (55:09):
Interesting. That's so exactly.

Speaker 7 (55:11):
But so think about my hair more. If you were
sending an uber, if you were sending an uber for me,
and you're like, yeah, but it's not me. It's a
girl and she what is one of the first things
you're gonna.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
Say, You'd say her hair color at least exactly. Yeah,
that's the number y thing.

Speaker 7 (55:31):
And so I saw another like in my many many
years of like nerding out on like why we think
what we think, but like the whole like interview thing
and interview culture and you know, uh, and I think
I told you guys about this before, where it was
like two women, same exact credentials, look really similar. They

(55:52):
have these two and it was like a sort of
focused focus group situation, same like, same exact credential goals.
The only difference was how they like each each wore
their hair, so one woman like they both had curly
hair but could be straightened, so you know, same interview,

(56:14):
like went on the interview with curly hair, and vice versa.
So like two different employers, one woe with curly hair,
one went with straight hair, each time the straight hair person,
one each time the girl. When the girl wore her
hair straight, she got the job.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
And does it matter what her ethnicity was?

Speaker 7 (56:37):
No?

Speaker 5 (56:39):
Huh interesting?

Speaker 7 (56:42):
No, curly hair is perceived. So you know it was
based right, right, wild, unkempt, free, not serious, right.

Speaker 5 (56:54):
I was thinking wild in like a good way. But
I guess they're all.

Speaker 7 (56:58):
I think. But a lot of times when people say wow,
they do not mean it.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
Well, it's because we're a three.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
Yes, certainly, because it's conformity, right, It's it's that curly
isn't the norm, it's the the majority.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
I should say.

Speaker 7 (57:14):
Curly hair though, that's like, yes, I don't know what
the actual.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
Okay, well it's wait, well in terms of like the
white beauty standard, curly curly, is not it curly? In it?

Speaker 6 (57:26):
Why?

Speaker 5 (57:27):
I was literally using a clothing iron to straighten my
hair when I was twelve old? Yeah, right, because it's
why we put wavy, frizzy, we.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Burn, we put chemicals in our hair from the time
that we're five years old, to straighten it, to to
burn your scalp, like how many chemical.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
Burns you had? Like it's insane, it's insane.

Speaker 4 (57:51):
Yeah, all, you're absolutely right, and not only I We
live in Brooklyn, so it's easy to forget these things
because we live in a place where uniqueness is is
celebrated and you're rewarded for being unique and for being different.
I think I think that we would all agree. Right,
it's like probably one of the few faces in her hair,
right well.

Speaker 7 (58:09):
Yeah, and like she's a she's a magical multicultural bubble,
exactly right.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
But you're absolutely right. Is it's not the norm.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
It's so far from the norm that it shocks me,
which it means New York is doing its job, I think.
But it's really I told you again, like my young
cousin when she came to New York and she said,
you know, Elizabeth, I love your hair, but my mom
would say that it was ghetto, and it's like, well.

Speaker 7 (58:36):
It breaks my heart, you know.

Speaker 5 (58:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (58:38):
I mean when I told my parents I was locking
my hair, the response was and I knew it wasn't
gonna be a good response because if I ever were braids,
they'd be like, why are you doing that? They were like,
why you have good hair see through? And I was like,
that's why.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
Told people I don't want to. I mean, you're going
to said that to me. That's the funny thing I
ever heard in my life. Or it's like she's like, I, yes,
I can grow my hair long, and for that, I
have quote unquote good hair.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
But it's see through. She said.

Speaker 7 (59:14):
Yes to give context to what she's talking about. You know,
I was telling her that you know exactly that about
like how like, oh, but your hair can grow, it
can grow long. I'm like, so my hair is so
fine that when it's long, it is literally see through.
There's a will continue to grow.

Speaker 5 (59:31):
Yes, I have hair that imagine having fine hair.

Speaker 7 (59:34):
Oh, it's so fine. So I'll show you. I'll show
you a picture. It's so fine and so basically like
the wind if there's even now there's a little bit
of wind, but you have more.

Speaker 8 (59:47):
Than me, so you have more of it. So I
find here and I don't have a lot of hair.

Speaker 7 (59:52):
So it was like twofold and I'm like, oh, yeah,
can you want to just see right through it exactly?
You want to be doing hippy lady with her hair
that's like you know, like sweeping the floor, but it's
like frizzy and like literally can you can see right
through it? Like it's like it's like she just yeah, yeah,
there's nothing cute about that, and she.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
Show me a picture. It really is because it's on
her back, but it's used to me.

Speaker 7 (01:00:19):
Yes, yes, I'm gonna send it to you. It is
not it's not good. And when I explain it when
I had it, and I show people, like look at
this white towel and look at does that look like
beautiful hair to you? Yeah? But I get it some

(01:00:40):
like everybody has, and and I know that there's gonna
be people like that that hear this and they're like
what there is a point where everyone's hair stops growing.
There's some people that have hair that will grow till,
you know, longer than their hype. It's not that common,
but it's much more common, especially in curly and like

(01:01:03):
curly textured hair and same. I mean really it's everybody,
like everybody has a link that their hair grows too.
And depending on your height, it looks longer, shorter or whatever.
But there are a lot of coiled textures that won't
grow long. It will never be long. It was not
meant to be long. It was meant to grow up

(01:01:25):
and out. And because of our Western styling like ideals
and like the way that we you know, we picture
beauty like what we perceive to be beautiful based on
this westernized conditioning. You know, they're like, oh, you know,
my hair is not beautiful because it's not long. And

(01:01:47):
it's like, not all hair is supposed to be long, y'all.
But you can have long hair if you make it.
A point with Sabrina Rosa, we need but this is like,
you know, that's why I really got like deep into
extensions because I'm like, guys, it's it is a fact,

(01:02:09):
like you're not going to have Some people, yes, are
born with the hair that they want, but like mostly
we're all like looking at over the fence, like the
grass is green out there. I have a texture that
I know, like you know, my my sister loved and
like I have so many friends that were like, girl,
I wish I had your hair, but then at the
same time, like I wish I had your hair. Your
hair stronger than mine. When you have the hair and

(01:02:32):
you deal with like I understand the benefits to them,
like just like you know, being able to like use
edge control and it doesn't matter if it's good or not,
like and my edges will stay. Yes, yes, that's a benefit.
But at the same time, it's like I want thick
corn rows. I will never have thick corn rows like
it will never. I will never straight corn row my

(01:02:55):
hair because it's just so much space sick. And that's
when people really have little hair. I actually have. I
did it once. I didn't as an adult, and I don't.
I don't even know if there are pictures, but I
wanted to like see like, oh well maybe maybe I
do have more like density or whatever. No child, ye

(01:03:20):
bid mean the cornrows like no, no, you own tragic.
So I use that braid down to put throat weaven.

Speaker 5 (01:03:30):
Yeah, but you know, I think it's it's important.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
The reason I love to talk to you, Sabs about
hair and everything is because I don't know. It's this
thing that we all have, and it's like very few
people are lucky enough to just have hair that like
just it does what you wanted to do, It just
works right, like very very few of us, especially if
we are a.

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
Person of color. Yeo, you need to know the secrets.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Somebody's got to tell you because you're looking at these
people like.

Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
How the how are they doing it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
I walked around for years just like how are you
doing it?

Speaker 7 (01:04:08):
Real? Braid lesson like when I started braiding, Like my
friend Lavis taught me how to braid purely because I
was like getting bullied so bad and I loved seeing
her braid her own hair. I'm like, this witch can
Like she's just sitting here. I'm like, this is amazing, Like, girl,
can you show me or whatever? And she did and

(01:04:29):
I'm sure. And it's so funny because now we're connected
again on Facebook and I feel like I should send
her a messages like, girl, you realize that you take
changed my life. I think she realized that she taught
me how to break and how much that did for me.

Speaker 5 (01:04:44):
Did say that to her?

Speaker 7 (01:04:45):
No? I haven't, but because I literally just got back
on Facebook for the brand.

Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
Wait, but while we're talking about that, can you tell
us about the line and the products that you have.

Speaker 7 (01:05:09):
Yeah, I mean there's tons, but basically I mean I
love them all, but I.

Speaker 8 (01:05:17):
Line, Yeah, the products are broken.

Speaker 7 (01:05:20):
Up into two like in my mind, not on the
website They're like, I'm gonna go to your website, like, no,
they are not. But between the liquids and the solids.
So I have liquid products that include there are four
of them. There's a hair oil called the Nurishing Rose Oil.
Then there's my nourishing shampoo, the Nourishing conditioner, which is

(01:05:43):
the conditioner.

Speaker 5 (01:05:43):
You highlight your hair. You need all the nourishing products.

Speaker 7 (01:05:46):
Yes you do. I agree. It was really about color,
like those products were about curls and color, and I
was like, how can I solve a major two like
because I knew I didn't want a crazy long range
and certainly not to launch with. I did launch with
more products than I thought I would, but the stars

(01:06:07):
were aligning. I was so happy with the formulas, and
I was like, look, I have too many kinds of
clients to be like, I have four products and none
of them are for you. Yes, I gotta keep going,
gotta keep going. And so I have the Soothing Scalp
shampoo and so those are the fours. So I did
those four products because I knew that if anyone was

(01:06:29):
going to take me seriously, they needed to be able
to consume a product in the way that they know
which is in a liquid form. The packaging is beautiful.
It's Matt Black. I really spent a fortune on that.

Speaker 5 (01:06:42):
I love the products, the packaging, it's really beautiful. Yes,
it's very chic, pet.

Speaker 7 (01:06:48):
Like so highly recyclable plastic. There is a huge plastic
shortage right now because of COVID, because of our relations
with China, thanks forty five and so you know it.
It is very expensive because the bottles, just the bottles
are so expensive, and the labels are really beautiful, and

(01:07:12):
those are expensive as well, because I wanted them to
last in the shower, and then I wanted you to
be able to take them off so you didn't chuck
your bottle.

Speaker 8 (01:07:20):
You saved your bottle, and you used to do something else.

Speaker 7 (01:07:24):
So at the heart of me wanting to do a line, which,
to return to your earlier question, yes, I always wanted
to do a line. I did think I was going
to do it a lot older.

Speaker 8 (01:07:37):
I'm turning forty.

Speaker 7 (01:07:39):
I was like, I want to start this conversation when
I'm fifty, because I figured at that point I'll be
much more like known, which is so ridiculous, and you know, I'll.

Speaker 8 (01:07:51):
Have slowed down.

Speaker 7 (01:07:52):
I won't travel as much so that I can focus
on focus all my energies on, you know, formulating a
beautiful line and have some money to boot. But then
obviously everything like shook up, and then I was like, okay, girl,
the universe is asking you basically how natural was born?
Was these like I was already taking formulation class because

(01:08:13):
I was like, you know what, like I love the
science anyway, so let me just like learn as much
as I possibly can exactly, and then you know, I
can tinker for a couple of years and then you know,
figure it out. But then I was having these virtual
consults for all of my clients that I couldn't see.

(01:08:34):
And it's interesting because like when you know, the beginning
of COVID and we went on serious lockdown I had.
It was like all these clients that I hadn't even
seen in a long time reached out to me and
we're like, you know, they live in different cities now,
and they're like, well, it's virtual, I want to see Sabrina.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:08:51):
And it was so like when I tell you, I
mean lit me up, Like I didn't even realize. I'm like,
y'all still think about me, like you even live here,
Like I love how hair and makeup has allowed me
to touch so many people's lives and that in some
ways that I've remained memorable to them by doing something

(01:09:13):
silly like hair and makeup, but because.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
People remember the way that you make them feel yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
Know, yes, and you forget people like the ultimate girl.
You make people feel like the ship like that's your job,
get my hair.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
I felt like a fucking supermodel.

Speaker 5 (01:09:30):
Yes, so of course that people like doing ship like yes,
and you need to know who the fuck was that girl?

Speaker 6 (01:09:38):
For sure?

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
Like how can I feel like this all the time?
Who is that girl that made me feel like this?
I'm honestly like, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:09:44):
Well, so.

Speaker 7 (01:09:47):
Thank you. Well. I was having these consults and I'm like, Okay,
you can get this, this, this and that, and then
you can mix this and do this and blah blah blah.
And they're like, girl, just tell me what to buy. Yes,
I'm not going to mix anything, just tell me what
to buy. Tell me what to buy. And it just
kept going like that, like I'd give them all these
instructions and how to do like an apple cider vinegar
rents on your hair to like just get everything out,

(01:10:07):
clean your scalp if they're suffering from dandruff or like
psoriasis or anything like that. I'm like, okay, use this product.
And I realized I'm like girling all you're doing. So
you know, I charged obviously for these consultations, but then
it's like, now I've given you a way to where

(01:10:27):
to buy your color or to buy these products, and
you're gone. You're gone. So I was just putting money
back into the pockets of people that already have lots
of money of money yeah, and I'm like, sorry, I
ain't got no generational wealth. So then I was like okay,
I like looked at my coins. I talked to Joe.

(01:10:47):
I'm like, Joe, am I crazy? Should I do this?
And he was like if you're crazy, sign me up.
I believe it.

Speaker 5 (01:11:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:11:01):
So then it was like full steam ahead. And so
to return to where I was was the liquid products
were for It was important for me to do that
because I really didn't want to, but it was important
for me to do that so that people would trust
the integrity of the product and like me not push

(01:11:25):
them too far with the shampoo bars, conditioner of bars,
lotion bars like my bar unless sustainable, like lower your
carbon imprint life. So then, and which was the most
important thing to me because I am, you know, a
black woman with dreadlocks, and I love doing protective styles

(01:11:46):
on my clients and myself. I was I have been
using shampoo bars for the last few years, and I knew.
I'm like, I I want an entire line of bars.
I like really just wanted it to be a collection
that was zero waste, that was like the dream. But

(01:12:09):
I know the consumer, and the consumer is like, bitch,
what's a bar? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
Sorry, I gave you having a bar? And he goes, yeah,
I got my soap on a robust.

Speaker 7 (01:12:18):
I shut up. I love it. But so first I I,
you know, I did the liquids so that you know,
people would trust me and the bars. The thing about
the collection is that there is this beautiful, sustainable, clean

(01:12:42):
sort of aspect to it. Thus natural by savs, and
natural doesn't mean that the products are all natural, like,
because there are obviously preservatives in the liquids, like that's
just impossible not to use some things that keep it alive.
But I went as far as I possibly could in

(01:13:05):
using natural ingredients. And truly, the natural is about like
bringing out what's beautifully natural about your hair, whether that
be colored hair, your weed, your braids, you grow. I
love hair, and I think it's all good. I do

(01:13:29):
not subscribe to you got that good hair. I don't
subscribe to that because it is a horrible way to
think about human beings. I just don't think it's right.
Even like frizzy hair. Why are we so afaid for that?
It is so frustrating as someone who is highly educated
in hair and here's chemistry, that we consider these things

(01:13:53):
that naturally occur error when it's a way for the
hair to take the brunt of the natural elements. Wow,
the coiled hair had a purpose. It protected us from insects, sunburn,
you know, dirt, debris. There was a purpose behind this hair,

(01:14:15):
you know, like you know, for example, like the Vikings,
like you know that hair grew incredibly long because it
worked to keep them warm. Like it's not it's all
for a reason. And we've come so far away from
that like evolutionary past that we you know, it's pretty

(01:14:35):
good bad and it's like not dog, it's just hair.
Like So when you sit in my chair, the first thing,
you know, everybody's apologizing. Everybody's always apologizing for their skin
for their hair. I didn't wash it. I washed it
too much? Is it too clean? Is it too dirty?
All the shit? Like you come into my chair and
welcome home. That's number one, welcome home. This isn't a

(01:14:59):
place for you to be, for me to tell you
the truth and for you to lead feeling good about yourself.

Speaker 8 (01:15:06):
You're perfect the way that you are.

Speaker 7 (01:15:08):
I just I want my products and I want my
services to only heighten that in whatever way you want,
which is why natural Bisabs I focused on cleansing products first,
cleansing and conditioning because I think that that's paramount and
we don't focus on the most important step. If you

(01:15:33):
have really good shampoo conditioning practice, typically your need for
products is much much lower.

Speaker 8 (01:15:42):
And I'm not saying for it to.

Speaker 7 (01:15:44):
Do something that it wouldn't naturally do, because that's crazy.
There's no magic in the bottle, there's no magic. So yes,
if you want your hair to do something that wouldn't
naturally do, you're going to always need products. Yes, Like
if you want it to be curly with a wand
and you don't expected like and you wanted to stay
in your hair street without product, like you're tripping. That's

(01:16:05):
not gonna happen without product.

Speaker 3 (01:16:08):
My hair.

Speaker 5 (01:16:09):
Literally, you put a curl in my hair.

Speaker 4 (01:16:11):
And like, yes, magic in a bottle, dude. That's like
that was so that was like, all right, magic and
a bottle hit me in a way. I have to
let you keep going.

Speaker 7 (01:16:21):
Because that's what they have sold us around.

Speaker 5 (01:16:23):
And you know, you know a girl, you and I
are too little. Yes, we're two little brown girls.

Speaker 4 (01:16:28):
You know. I search for fucking magic in a bottle
every bottle that I bought, every single bottle, and I thought, yes,
I was like there's here's here's five ninety nine's that
like that's going to get me to whatever it is,
and like I wanted to be like the perfection.

Speaker 5 (01:16:42):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
It's like I didn't even know what dude, it's so yeah, hair, dude,
it's so crazy. It's so crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:16:49):
It's like.

Speaker 7 (01:16:51):
Yeahs so mental, the lies, the lies. Yes, that's sort
of again, like going going back to the line, is
that was part of like the most important thing to
me is like for this thing to not get too
big before, like too big for its breches. Like I'm
glad that the product has been well received thus far.
I am not at a stage that I'm ready to

(01:17:13):
grow much more. This year, we are still very much
in a global pandemic.

Speaker 8 (01:17:18):
Yeah, you know, there's a vaccination.

Speaker 7 (01:17:19):
I got my first shot. Y'all got your first shot
and that. But like we're still very much in it,
and I am not working as much as I would
normally be working. Therefore, I don't have as much money
to put into the line. This is self funded. And no,
I don't want your money because I don't want anybody's
like accountability.

Speaker 5 (01:17:39):
Yeah, I don't want to pay back anybody. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:17:42):
I don't want to answer to anyone.

Speaker 8 (01:17:44):
Yeah, I don't any of that.

Speaker 7 (01:17:45):
So the bars for me was like my like dream,
that's the dream. The dream product is to make shampoo
and conditioner bars. Cool. I just I love that people
to know that you can like use a product that
you know, we're all like, oh, less ingredients, more natural.

(01:18:08):
I'm like, well, guess what, guys, Bars is exactly that. Yeah,
because of this pontification process, a shampoo bar self preserves that,
like you know, we we have to say that there's
a shelf life, but realistically there is no shelf life
because it's.

Speaker 5 (01:18:26):
So yeah, it's.

Speaker 7 (01:18:30):
So the shelf life means, like, you know, on my bars,
I have a two year shelf life two years, so
they're gonna last way longer than that.

Speaker 8 (01:18:37):
But we say two years because I want you to
know that in two years.

Speaker 7 (01:18:41):
You can't expect it to smell like lavender, like as
strong as it did when you bought it. It's that's
just not realistic, right, not but going to work. But
the soap is still going to work. That's the thing.
Like you're not going to get the smell, but you
will get the benefits, but you know it's still not
what you bought it for. So you know, I just

(01:19:03):
with the line because I have so much control over everything.
I like my FAQs are and I'm constantly adding to it.
I'm like, somebody asks me a good question, I'm like,
I'm putting it up on the FAQs. I care so
much about telling the truth, so so so much about

(01:19:23):
being transparent because I don't want anyone to have that
feeling of like, oh, this is going to solve this
problem that I have, and it's like there is no
easy solve and a lot of these issues, it's like
you needing to accept the texture that you were born with.

Speaker 5 (01:19:43):
Right there might not even be a problem. It might be.

Speaker 7 (01:19:45):
Like so many times I've had girls come to me
like my hair it's too oh this is the best one,
which coming from like you and me Alex with our
fine ass hair, it's just too big. I'm like, bitch,
no such thing. But when you have a lot of hair, yeah,
they're like yeah, Like I'm tired. Shampooing my hair is work.

Speaker 5 (01:20:09):
I have to say. At least having fine hair, it driess,
it don't blow dry and dries in the air.

Speaker 7 (01:20:16):
Well, now I got dread luck and I'm like, lord,
it takes I'm like, this is what y'all been going through.

Speaker 5 (01:20:23):
It's forever forever to dry.

Speaker 7 (01:20:25):
It takes so long. Yeah, and like obviously they exactly
they drive the longest, but it does. I love that.
I've been on two sides of the coin where I'm
like no hair and on my hair is heavy.

Speaker 5 (01:20:39):
Yeah, I alio, you must use a lot of product
when you really thick hair. Yeah, But here's the thing
is you don't need to because I'll scalp work. Right,
That's what I've learned from Savs. It's all scalp work.

Speaker 7 (01:20:50):
It's all scalp work, especially shampoo. Like let me, like
if I can leave the listener with any like gems
like you know is stop over shampooing. Guys, you don't
need that much, especially even if it's sulfate free, which
all of my formulas are, it will still lather. You

(01:21:14):
don't need foam. Basically, foam doesn't mean it's clean. What
it means a lot of the time is it's going
to be super dry.

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:21:23):
Yeah, but that again, that's not mutually like you know,
it's that's not always the case. Yes, I think it's
so important for you to take your time and granted,
not when you're in a rush and not when you're
a mom of three, Like, girl, I know you ain't
got no time for this, You got no time for me?

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
You don't.

Speaker 7 (01:21:44):
But there is a way for you to get what
you want out of your products. You just have to
figure out what the like, you know, what the product is,
how you're going to utilize it because a lot of
the time, water is the enemy. And I want to
be very clear about what I mean by that water

(01:22:06):
when you're shampooing and conditioning. Going back to the straw analogy.
If your hair is a straw, when your straw, like
your hair is filled with water. Product cannot get in
product get it, so you need to wring the water
out of your hair. Step away from the shower, Step

(01:22:29):
away from the water and wring your hair out. And
I'm especially if you have thick hair. Get away from
the water, like get it wet enough so that, like
you know, the product will spread. But get away from
the water because the water is filling the cuticle with
water and not product.

Speaker 8 (01:22:48):
You're shampooing nothing, and especially conditioner.

Speaker 7 (01:22:51):
Conditioner is the number one thing that people are like,
you know immediately my friends, like I have friends with
really long hair that are you know, I've been my
clients forever and they're like, girl, you know I'm jumbo
size and you're like with their yeah, you know, I'm
a jumbo sized girl, Like let me know when you
have these jumbo sizes, I'm like, girl jumbo with my
product packaging, et cetera. I'm like, those are not coming

(01:23:11):
out for it.

Speaker 5 (01:23:13):
I'm not a jumbo girls.

Speaker 7 (01:23:15):
Damn shortage, Like, you don't need as much conditioner as
you think you do. Don't because you're not even allowing
the conditioner to get absorbed.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Like want wet, shut it off, shampoo you don't have to.

Speaker 7 (01:23:34):
Shut it off.

Speaker 5 (01:23:34):
You can leave the water running.

Speaker 7 (01:23:35):
I don't want you to freeze in there.

Speaker 5 (01:23:37):
I've always done that for some reason, because we.

Speaker 7 (01:23:40):
Were taught in commercials to do that. Like when you're
buying three dollars shampoo, yeah, bitch, let's let the water
run in there, like that's wine. But if you're buying
my twenty six dollars shampoo, I want you to get
your money's worth. I'm already.

Speaker 5 (01:23:56):
I remember when I first lived on my own. I mean,
I could only for like the swab do they even
still make swab shampoos.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
Or as an institution and you.

Speaker 5 (01:24:09):
But I also wasn't highlighting my hair, so it was
what I was.

Speaker 7 (01:24:12):
But yeah, I just I mean, but there's a lot
of drug store stuff. Listen, there's a lot of drug
store stuff that's that's good. Like I'm sorry, like we
can you know, people are like, oh, just steir away
from the drug store. I'm like, that's not true. That's
just not true. It's like we want you to buy
something better, meaning more expensive, so we can put that
money in our pockets.

Speaker 5 (01:24:30):
But we got to talk about this one.

Speaker 8 (01:24:32):
That's perfectly fine if you use it correctly.

Speaker 5 (01:24:38):
I'm very curious. I've got yes, go ahead of what
you're saying. No, I'm changing the subject. So if you've
got something subject, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
So what's something I do want to say is that
I've been I don't know very very many young people,
but Kevin and I have been watching like college hoops lately,
like the college all the college games around right now,
right you know these young girls they all have braids,
are like locks, they are like they're wearing their hair natural.
Some of these girls are playing basketball in wigs with

(01:25:05):
acrylics and lashes. Girl, I know, I'm like, I'm a
go girl, go girl like me.

Speaker 5 (01:25:14):
But now we both know young how to look good.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
But that's not even that girl, but playing basketball, playing
full on college basketball in a wig with.

Speaker 5 (01:25:21):
Hair crylics and lashes, bitch. That's very very impressive.

Speaker 7 (01:25:25):
And what I love is that before sports, like, you know,
you weren't allowed to like let your femininity shine, you know,
and like even if it's like you know, basically like
the assumption that like, if you're an athlete, you're queer,
when like there is a mix of both, yes, such,

(01:25:50):
and just because you're queer doesn't mean you you don't
want acrylics and lashes because I'm here to tell you
that I'm extremely queer and I love all that shit.

Speaker 3 (01:25:59):
Or just because you like basketball doesn't mean you can't
like wigs and.

Speaker 5 (01:26:02):
Lashes, right, That's what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
It's like to be straight to play basketball period.

Speaker 7 (01:26:07):
That's what I'm saying. We have always had to give
up one toy, Like, yeah, it's so weird, like we
can't be everything, which is just not real. It's not real.
Nobody is just one thing and it's like a girly
girl and only likes.

Speaker 8 (01:26:21):
The Bachelor and the Bachelorette and no shade.

Speaker 7 (01:26:23):
I did watch The Black Bachelor, Let's be honest. I
just finished it. Yes, But like it's like we have
to like we always have to be like fall into
a category. And I just love that this new generation
is like fuck out of here, Yes, out of here.

Speaker 8 (01:26:41):
I'm gonna wear my nails and I'm gonna fucking hoop
you does.

Speaker 5 (01:26:44):
What's the wig? Glue? Impressed?

Speaker 7 (01:26:46):
What is the clue? Baby?

Speaker 5 (01:26:50):
I know what it is. I mean, that's what I'm saying.
They're sweating.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
That's It's like, Yeah, I'm very impressed with this. With
the state pudded neess.

Speaker 4 (01:26:57):
Also because they don't look crazy at the end, everybody
but can the same going on.

Speaker 5 (01:27:01):
They did go on, they look good.

Speaker 7 (01:27:03):
They're just like a little.

Speaker 5 (01:27:07):
Also to be young, to be young.

Speaker 4 (01:27:09):
But I was very like happily surprised by the amount
of natural hair that I saw. I was just like,
all right, this generation they are, that's awesome because you
know the scope.

Speaker 7 (01:27:20):
Of jobs like there were like fuck your job description corporate, Yes, yes,
both jobs. They have their own idle and they're making
more money than us. And I'm like, good for y'all
because we literally made all this ship up, all of
it up, all the credentials up that has been made up.

(01:27:44):
I have talked so many times, not on our podcast,
but you know, amongst other professionals about like how unfair
the licensing system is in the US and how it
is another systematic thing that polds back immigrants and people
of color because you know, people come from I had

(01:28:06):
a whole class that I taught in Seattle at beauty
school a woman that came from East Asia and like
Cambodia and Thailand and it, and they all had already
gone through training and were working in hair and working
as estheticians and working in beauty and came here and

(01:28:30):
had to get licensed and you know, with no money, no,
and it's like they couldn't even take a test to
prove yeah, they already have these skills. Because America doesn't
accept anything.

Speaker 4 (01:28:42):
As if you don't have to pay money, as if
you don't have to exactly if you have to pay
to get your green card. That shit is it is
so expensive to become an American that it's it's.

Speaker 5 (01:28:50):
People have no idea. Listen, I know someone who got
her waxing license just by paying for it.

Speaker 7 (01:28:57):
I know me too.

Speaker 8 (01:28:58):
I know I know so many white Italians.

Speaker 7 (01:29:05):
That like Europeans like but that come from the pretty
countries that people love, that literally bought their licenses. Like
it's infuriating because I've been to beauty school three times.

Speaker 5 (01:29:19):
Oh my god, I got all the like licenses.

Speaker 7 (01:29:23):
I mean, that's my own, that's my own, dumb ship,
like went to school then like, oh I'm going to
Europe to do the shows, and then when I came back,
my school was closed.

Speaker 8 (01:29:33):
But you got no hours bench.

Speaker 7 (01:29:36):
Go back to school.

Speaker 5 (01:29:38):
Hours talking about the hours I got the hours, Oh.

Speaker 7 (01:29:41):
And depending on where you were in the country, like
you know, California sixteen hundred, see Washington hundred.

Speaker 8 (01:29:47):
Here, No, here's only a thousand.

Speaker 7 (01:29:49):
But you don't really get the nail care and the
facial like you know, like sort of minimal program exactly,
and really you test on hair. It's Seattle. I took
my board there and I had to do nails, I
had to do a facial. Yeah. But you also, they

(01:30:12):
don't have the apprenticeship program like they do in New
York where and what's weird is like they have apprenticeship,
but it means for you to get your license. Where
apprenticeship here means it's your track to get a chair.
Oh so you can get a license, and if you
have money, which you don't like most you don't, you

(01:30:33):
can get a chair your on salon or whatever. But
you know, if you want to be in a prominent
salon here, you have to assist, which is apprenticeship. You
you learn how to get a license in hair school.

Speaker 3 (01:30:47):
Hip is a man of what moldy yes, yes, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, which.

Speaker 7 (01:30:51):
Is pretty apprenticed as a hairstylist, as a makeup artist.

Speaker 8 (01:30:56):
And I mean I took I mean I I went
to bumble.

Speaker 7 (01:31:00):
I was educated at bumble. I went to Medeling Kofano
in Paris for bolliage. I went to uh uh so
soon out uh classes in London. You know, I've I've
I mean and countless classes in between at hair shows
and like uh Cosmo prop and you know, like I

(01:31:23):
would and I mean I still I'm always interested in
learning more because what's cool about hair and makeup is
it's ever changing and there's always a new and a
new way to do something. And you know what's like
hip and because now we have this like blogging culture,
things that are moving much more fast. Yeah, you know,

(01:31:44):
it's like, okay, you now it's baby lights, which I'm like, guys,
it's a fucking highlight. It's a foil highlight. Like we've
been doing this forever. All you're doing is much much
much skinnier sections.

Speaker 5 (01:31:54):
Yes, it's also just a marketing ploy of like yeah,
this new way, come get done.

Speaker 7 (01:31:59):
Well exactly and then come take a class.

Speaker 5 (01:32:02):
Yes thousand, I've been the trend. Yes, and I've been
noticing that also.

Speaker 7 (01:32:08):
Yes, nobody cares.

Speaker 5 (01:32:10):
Yes, yes, the same thing, an aesthetics, the same.

Speaker 7 (01:32:12):
Things, certifications, Yes, they don't matter.

Speaker 4 (01:32:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:32:29):
Should we do a question?

Speaker 7 (01:32:31):
Yeah yeah, I love it, love a listener question.

Speaker 5 (01:32:34):
So, I've been noticing on natural hair Instagram accounts and
YouTube channels that there's been a backlash against shade better
and oils for your hair. Sometimes it's only certain oils
like Jehoba and black castor oil, and other times it's
just an outright ban on oils. It's this backlash based
on facts. Is it just help us us out?

Speaker 7 (01:32:53):
Oh my god? Yes, I love you. First of all,
I love you, and you've questions. Do not believe this
bullshit hype and these bloggers don't?

Speaker 5 (01:33:06):
Bloggers?

Speaker 7 (01:33:07):
Sure, sit the fuck down, please stop. Oils are amazing.
Hoobah is a carrier oil. It is a magical fucking oil.
And here's why mix.

Speaker 5 (01:33:22):
Your natural fucking oils. Why would anymoret it?

Speaker 7 (01:33:24):
It is the same pH as your hair, skin, and nails,
which means that your body can absorb it and knows
exactly what to do with it. So sit all the
way the.

Speaker 5 (01:33:33):
Fuck bunch of dummies.

Speaker 7 (01:33:35):
Bunch of carrier oil that I use a lot, and.

Speaker 5 (01:33:39):
I love it oil. It's oil.

Speaker 7 (01:33:42):
Recommend black castor oil also amazing, should be mixed, shouldn't
be applied on its own. It's quite heavy, but it
depends on your hair type. If you're four C, you
can fuck with black castor oil and be fine. But
my fucking three A ass cannot. I cannot. You know.
The thing is like HBO well is incredible. It's an

(01:34:03):
incredible additive that I also use in my formulations.

Speaker 8 (01:34:06):
Should it be used on its own on your body, go.

Speaker 7 (01:34:09):
For a bit? It's major on your hair, maybe not,
It just depends on your hair type. I really, like, really,
really do not like cancel culture. I think that some
people need to be a little more kind and recognize
that these are hard working individuals that may have more

(01:34:32):
credentials than they do. When these start.

Speaker 8 (01:34:34):
Canceling things, I would like to know whose hair you're doing.

Speaker 7 (01:34:40):
And how long you've been doing. You know, said hair
while you're canceling a bracket of incredible things that occur
in nature that are great for a hair, skin, and nails.
But I will say, like, no, there are no bands
on any oils. I think the one that I would

(01:35:00):
say that is constantly recommended as an oil to be
used on its own incorrectly is coconut oil.

Speaker 5 (01:35:10):
Yes, the law is not even the lawn for a while, Yes,
coconut oil is amazing.

Speaker 7 (01:35:19):
She is amazing, but it is way too rich. If
you can cook with it, it's too rich for your
hair on its own.

Speaker 5 (01:35:28):
That's a really good rule.

Speaker 7 (01:35:31):
Some people can handle it. Like I said, there are
some textures like people. There's a model that I worked
with for many years. She's from Holland, absolutely gorgeous, white,
covered in freckles. She could use coconut oil all over
her skin and never break out. That is a genetic thing.
I have really good skin. If I use coconut oil

(01:35:51):
all over my face, I will break out. It is
too heavy for me. So, like I said, I can't
even say that it's a cross the board that you
can't use it. But I will say that what I
have found over the twenty years that I've been touching
human beings for a living, that coconut oil is best

(01:36:11):
used as an additive oil, not a carrier oil, not
a base oil, not something that you use on its own.
But yes, rather that should all over your body. Use
it as lube, like a free It's great use as lube.

Speaker 5 (01:36:29):
Yeah, I'm like, there you go.

Speaker 7 (01:36:32):
She's not gonna hurt your cuddy.

Speaker 3 (01:36:46):
You want to close this out with a segment you
got something for us, and I didn't know.

Speaker 5 (01:36:49):
If you don't have one, I have one.

Speaker 7 (01:36:52):
I definitely want to hear yours. I did, and I
don't know where I put it. I thought I left
an I.

Speaker 5 (01:36:59):
Thought of it as we were talking.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
Did you read good?

Speaker 4 (01:37:01):
Good? Go?

Speaker 7 (01:37:02):
All right?

Speaker 5 (01:37:03):
Great?

Speaker 7 (01:37:03):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (01:37:03):
But I'm going to go okay because it had to
do with makeup. It's so weird, you guys are it
was weirdo. That's my favorite. So when I first moved
to Bushwick to Brooklyn to Bushwick, I was nineteen and
I worked from desk at a spa. But I was like,
I need to make more money, and so I was
really into you. At this point, I hadn't decided I

(01:37:25):
was going to go to estheticians school yet, but I
knew that I loved beauty shit most young girls do.

Speaker 7 (01:37:32):
And you're like, make myself prettier done. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:37:35):
And I also had actually gone to see a cosmetology
school in like Ridgewood. No, no, I was thinking of
doing hair. It wasn't something I was passionate about. It
was just like a lot of people, and I like
beauty stuff, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:37:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:37:50):
Anyway, when on the interview, I realized like, I didn't
know what i'd do about the money for it. Anyway,
I put that on the back burner and I was like,
I know what I'll do. I put an ad on
Craigslist being like, I do you need help at the
drug store picking out your cosmetics?

Speaker 3 (01:38:07):
I can guide you.

Speaker 5 (01:38:09):
I love this idea. I never actually people did contact me,
and then my boyfriend at the time was like, I
don't think that's a good idea to meet strangers of Craigslist,
and he freaked me out. So I wound up not
doing it. Charged people, Oh that I would charge them.
I think it was like a twenty five dollars flat
fee for me to help them pick out like the

(01:38:30):
proper colors. Because I was so obsessed. I was on
this website called Makeup.

Speaker 6 (01:38:34):
Eye, and I was.

Speaker 5 (01:38:37):
I remember makeup a Yeah, and I feel like I've
really had gotten a good grasp.

Speaker 7 (01:38:41):
Of just like one of the first like makeup b loogs.

Speaker 5 (01:38:44):
Yes, And so I really feel like I knew a
good amount about drugstore cosmetics yeah. And I was like
I could help someone, and there were probably so many
people don't know what the fuck they're doing. So anyway, it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:55):
Never worked out.

Speaker 5 (01:38:56):
Uh did you ever hold it now me strangers out
the internet. It's never a good idea, even in a
public place. I mean, okay, clearly I sounded young and naive.
I'm sure that ad was weird.

Speaker 7 (01:39:07):
I need to know.

Speaker 4 (01:39:08):
I need to hear the ad first of all, because
I love a terrible idea. I'm not gonna die like
I don't know if that's a true story. Don't keep
meet people up.

Speaker 5 (01:39:15):
People are doing that right now.

Speaker 3 (01:39:16):
I'm sure come meet me like some kind of gigs.

Speaker 4 (01:39:19):
I'll meet you at a Dueen, well maybe pre pandemic,
you at Dueene read and we'll walk together and I'll
pick help you pick things out.

Speaker 3 (01:39:25):
Is that basically what we're doing on the podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:39:27):
I mean kind of great idea. It seemed like a
good idea, I mean, a great idea.

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
And I don't think I mean, I think maybe the
Internet back then wasn't quite the same, Like there wasn't
so much checks and bounces, it was Craigslist whatever. I
don't think it was a terrible idea. I think that
you were onto something. I think that was your little
entrepreneurial gene.

Speaker 7 (01:39:47):
Honestly, I think it was, you know, awesome. I am
mad that I didn't think to do that, right because
I'm just like money grab like when I was broke
or like I really needed to like you know, like
help help someone like get something or like myself or
you know whatever. Like I would do fifty dollars weaves.

(01:40:09):
So basically you come with your hair and your hair
already stretched and I will throw it in and partials
not full because that's like too much like cutting and whatnot.
But I would do your like with leave out. So
basically we would leave out, which means for Alex, so
this is left out so that they can do whatever

(01:40:30):
part So like got exactly, And it was a way
for me to practice weaving when I was doing a
lot of white hair and I didn't want to like
you know, I wanted to stay strong, and it was
like almost like not uh, it was a way for

(01:40:51):
me to like feel like stay connected to black hair.

Speaker 5 (01:40:55):
I would definitely.

Speaker 7 (01:40:59):
Formed me at the salon. Ye never would have come
to me at the salon. Got to get their hair
done by me for nothing. That's like what that's my normal,
like normally when I get tip, Like.

Speaker 5 (01:41:13):
But what a good little side thing. And it helped you.

Speaker 7 (01:41:18):
And it was like cash and The thing is, I
was doing it so often. I got so fast, and
I remember, like I did a weave and I also
it was like the hair was the right, like everything collided,
but like I did a weave in the shortest amount
of time than I ever did. I did a weave
in an hour and a half. And I was like,

(01:41:38):
oh my god, that's amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:41:41):
Yeah, you did it like the whole.

Speaker 8 (01:41:42):
Break down and sewed all the hair in. And I'm
not fast like that.

Speaker 7 (01:41:48):
That's the thing is, I'm not fast, Like I know
plenty of black hair dressers that are like, bitch, I
could do it in an hour, but that's not me.
I've never been like super fast because I'm like so
like I'm looking in a I'm checking and I'm very
like a type and yeah, no, it was so. It
was such a great side hustle. I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:42:08):
I love it to have one too.

Speaker 7 (01:42:10):
I do.

Speaker 5 (01:42:11):
I didn't know then I do. I've gotten I didn't
know them, but I'm.

Speaker 7 (01:42:13):
More, Oh, I know though, I have plenty of those.

Speaker 5 (01:42:17):
We can do it. Whatever you got, want one, you
want to throw one, you give me one and I'll
give you one. Okay, So this is.

Speaker 7 (01:42:25):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:42:26):
So I'm kind of happy to tell this story because
I think that it's like appropriate for like we're using
this episode for the launch of like being on the
exactly right network.

Speaker 5 (01:42:34):
So yeah, exactly right, exactly right. So Alex and I
got we got.

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
An email like from Danielle, one of the executive producers,
in September saying that they want to be on the show,
and it was so like, do you know, We've been
working towards this goal for a long time, but like
I emailed them back in March, it was just so
out of the blue, and this is like, you know,
my favorite Murder is one of my favorite podcasts.

Speaker 5 (01:42:58):
So it was a little unbelieva not.

Speaker 4 (01:43:00):
Unbelievable, but yeah, it was a little unbelievable, just like
is this really happening?

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
What's going on?

Speaker 4 (01:43:05):
And so we set up a phone call to like
just get on the phone with Karen and Georgia and
to meet everybody, and Alex and I are super excited
and we're really nervous, and so like the day of
the phone call comes and it's a Google hang.

Speaker 3 (01:43:21):
We get the calendar invitation, but we're just like this
is so weird, Like why is this, like why are we.

Speaker 4 (01:43:28):
Dialing in It's like a conference call, Like this doesn't
make any.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
Sense to find out when.

Speaker 5 (01:43:36):
Not taking from my story, I know because it's so
funny that it made me cry when she came to
this realization.

Speaker 4 (01:43:45):
First of all, I love that you're trying to blame
me for this, because you didn't even realize the mistake
until I pointed out to you.

Speaker 5 (01:43:51):
So this is both of our dumb asses. I only
blame did a new based on our last call. Okay,
So we take this call.

Speaker 4 (01:43:59):
And we're on the phone them, and the whole time
Alex and I are looking at each other like this
is so weird, Like why aren't we video conferencing everybody.

Speaker 5 (01:44:06):
To talk three people on the like everybody?

Speaker 7 (01:44:10):
That's how it always needs to be.

Speaker 4 (01:44:13):
So we're thinking, Okay, we know that they're like gen xers.
Maybe they're just like fuck these hoes. They don't need
to see us like we just need.

Speaker 5 (01:44:19):
They thought that we'd recorded.

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
I don't know, but because of this, the whole time
that we're going through this process of signing with them,
because it took so long, I'm starting to talk myself
out of it. I'm like, yo, this was an elaborate hoax.
Y'all never saw these bitches.

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
You were just you were just on the phone with
them for like a very short.

Speaker 5 (01:44:37):
Span of time. She had me convinced that there was
a chance that we were being scammed. I really believe.

Speaker 3 (01:44:47):
I was like, this was today's time that who doesn't
video conference, who doesn't zoom?

Speaker 6 (01:44:51):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:44:51):
You hadn't be convinced, yo.

Speaker 5 (01:44:53):
So our most.

Speaker 4 (01:44:56):
Hold on a second, So our most long story stort
is obviously in the signing.

Speaker 3 (01:45:00):
Everything's fine.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
For our first onboarding call, the same thing happens right
the zoom the Google calendar invitation comes in.

Speaker 5 (01:45:08):
We're separate this time this summer. I've got on there
with video and I'm like, I just stop. What's up?

Speaker 4 (01:45:14):
Long story short is we didn't know that if you
just open up Google hangs, it's automatically on video a video.

Speaker 7 (01:45:21):
I was like, wait, guys, you realized that you had.

Speaker 5 (01:45:24):
The option when she repressed herself as an auntie.

Speaker 4 (01:45:30):
Because everybody were the only two people aren't zooming this time.

Speaker 5 (01:45:34):
So you had to laugh when we're in that call
because I was like, I don't know, she must have
turned her camera and then I'm like, no, she doesn't know.

Speaker 7 (01:45:46):
Because Grandma.

Speaker 5 (01:45:48):
Then realized what happened last time.

Speaker 4 (01:45:51):
I had tears when we got off and I realized
what the fuck happened that they were on the video
and we were the ass who are calling in the first.

Speaker 5 (01:46:02):
That first called definitely.

Speaker 7 (01:46:06):
Yes, So I guess all they can. These ladies really
don't want to be seen, huh anything that anything, that's
where the politeness I think about it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:22):
I could hear like like I could hear in their
voices that they're like, this is Danielle talking, so.

Speaker 5 (01:46:33):
Oh no, rich I do so good? Oh my god.
So I didn't know then, but I'm older now.

Speaker 4 (01:46:42):
I guess video conferencing just figure out how to just
always assuming probably figure out.

Speaker 3 (01:46:46):
How to use it before you try and jump on.

Speaker 5 (01:46:48):
Yeah, yes, yes, practice not surprising. We've been chatting for
almost two hours. We do that, that happen.

Speaker 7 (01:47:00):
I We're like, we're definitely gonna have to edit it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:03):
Well the first time, the first thirty minutes with Stabs
yelling at me about.

Speaker 5 (01:47:06):
My hair, so okay, yeah, it's like we can we
can be exactly an hour ten minutes or so.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
Do you have a statementue, do you want to add
something or should we should we wrap with auntieisms.

Speaker 7 (01:47:18):
Yeah, I think auntieisms is great.

Speaker 5 (01:47:20):
Let's do it.

Speaker 7 (01:47:21):
I have plenty, but I can save them for our episode.

Speaker 5 (01:47:24):
Okay, save them for episode for BB These were some
good I think we had good ones.

Speaker 7 (01:47:27):
I think we're good. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
Okay, So stabs tell everybody where they can find you,
where they can support natural by Sabs, where they can
buy all your products.

Speaker 7 (01:47:40):
Yeah. So if you go to www dot n t
r L buy Sabs s abs dot com, you can
check out my entire range of shampoo and conditioning products
and my lotion bars, my lip bombs, the hair oil

(01:48:00):
that is so magical that Alex doesn't look like trash.

Speaker 5 (01:48:04):
I love the hair everything last night.

Speaker 7 (01:48:08):
Yeah, exactly, She's a multi years It's amazing. And you
can use the coupon cold code sorry, coupon code True
Beauty Brooklyn for fifteen percent off your order.

Speaker 4 (01:48:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:48:24):
Yeah, got awesome. That's awesome.

Speaker 7 (01:48:25):
And yes, please follow us on Instagram at natural bi SABS.
We'll make sure to post this with the link on
our ig. And I just truly appreciate you guys taking
the time to talk to me about my little brand.

Speaker 4 (01:48:41):
Yeah, and dude, SABS is with us once a month,
so she's yeah, right, all of your listeners.

Speaker 5 (01:48:47):
Any beauty questions, Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:48:48):
If you have any beauty questions to make talk mostly
about like me, but like I love answering your questions
regarding hair and makeup and anything silly, like you know
you use this product when you were young, and you
just want to tell us about it, talk about Yes,
we love that I missed the Please feel free to
email us at True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast at gmail dot com.

Speaker 5 (01:49:13):
That's it.

Speaker 7 (01:49:13):
That's send it to our I G and we will
get to it because we will answer all those questions, y'all.

Speaker 4 (01:49:21):
Yes, yes, love it, love it, Love it, Sabs, you
love you so much, love you and we I mean
me and.

Speaker 5 (01:49:46):
Oh hey guys, hey, we hope that you loved that
episode with Sabs.

Speaker 3 (01:49:51):
Also, Alex has something that you'd like to say.

Speaker 5 (01:49:53):
Oh my god. Okay, So during that intro, I said,
see you on the flip side. I've I've never said
that in my life. I don't know where it came from.
I don't know why I said it. It was they're nervous.
I started talking in a British accent. You said, see
you on the flip side. I feel like that's like
a nineties.

Speaker 4 (01:50:12):
Yeah, I don't really nervous because you're the exactly right
network and it's exciting.

Speaker 5 (01:50:17):
It's exciting. We're nervous. We're just meeting you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:50:20):
You like us?

Speaker 5 (01:50:21):
We really want you to like us. Oh my god,
well you might not like me now because you're like,
who's this whiny voice?

Speaker 7 (01:50:28):
See?

Speaker 5 (01:50:31):
I don't know if that's like a I have to
find out where that came from.

Speaker 7 (01:50:35):
I like it though. I like that.

Speaker 5 (01:50:36):
It was why was that in my brain?

Speaker 3 (01:50:37):
Because that was like twelve year old you trying to
be cool, do you know.

Speaker 5 (01:50:41):
What I mean? And like.

Speaker 4 (01:50:44):
I'm like old upperclassmen has some upperclassmen somehow? Was like
with up Shapiro and you're like, see on.

Speaker 5 (01:50:49):
The flip side, that's hilarious.

Speaker 4 (01:50:57):
Yeah, but I said it. When we listened back to
the record, nick I said it, so said Cat. She
said A great, you said I super casually.

Speaker 5 (01:51:04):
Maybe I Shoulder's farm thanks to say, all right, well,
but I just wanted to address that. Yes, anyway, I
hope you loved that interview with Sabs.

Speaker 4 (01:51:14):
Yeah. I thought that was a lot of fun Sabs
is the sweetest and she's so funny. Because I mean,
Sabs is from the Bronx through and through and she's
definitely hard, but like, I love to see those soft
moments when it's just like the three of us and
she can kind of be herself a little bit more
and be super Slee just the three of us and
all of you and all of you guys now all
of our new best friends.

Speaker 7 (01:51:33):
Yay.

Speaker 4 (01:51:37):
So anyway, guys, we okay, here's the big ass we
need to hear from you. We live to talk, but
more so as we live to laugh. We fucking love
to laugh. We try to share all of our sort
of like cringiest worst moments.

Speaker 5 (01:51:56):
On our glow up from age twelve to today thirty
five bitch, and we.

Speaker 4 (01:52:03):
Want to do it because it's it just makes everybody
seem more normal, right, And I think that just hilarities
overall are great. So send us your milk with your dinner,
send us here if you didn't know them. But I'm
older now but more equally.

Speaker 3 (01:52:15):
As important as important.

Speaker 5 (01:52:18):
Send us your questions please please. We are here for you, guys.

Speaker 4 (01:52:22):
We love skincare, we love beauty, We love sharing all
of our secrets. And here's the biggest secret. Alex and
I we were talking about this before. Is the biggest
secret in beauty I think is that you need somebody
who knows more than you to tell you that you're
fucking up. All of our greatest moments, I think, in
like leveling up has come first.

Speaker 5 (01:52:42):
It was Christine Daho.

Speaker 4 (01:52:43):
Shout out to Christine Daho eighteen years old. She said, bitch,
stop tweezing your eyebrows, just stop pulling all.

Speaker 5 (01:52:48):
The hairs out of your face.

Speaker 4 (01:52:51):
And the next moment Alex and I realized is when
we took you know, these photos for the exactly right network.
And of course we went to our friend Sabs, who
did our hair makeup, and her husband's this incredible photographer,
and we looked at ourselves. I mean, it's beautiful, but
we look like the most beautiful versions of ourselves, and
we're like, I don't know, is.

Speaker 5 (01:53:09):
This too much? Bitch? Is not too much?

Speaker 4 (01:53:11):
Our friend Sabrina knew because she works with celebrities, she
works on set. She said, it's just an aesthetic. It's
an aesthetic that we don't have because.

Speaker 3 (01:53:21):
We are normies and you just need somebody to help
you level up.

Speaker 5 (01:53:24):
And we want to be that person.

Speaker 4 (01:53:25):
Few I tell you that tangent I took you down
that tangent lane with me, because we want to be
your beauty besties, and sometimes you need somebody who just
like knows a little bit more than you do about skincare,
about eyebrows, about taking pictures, about your hair, about grown
it out, about cutting it off.

Speaker 2 (01:53:43):
Whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:53:44):
Send us your letters, send us all of your questions.
We're here for you. We can't wait to answer them.

Speaker 3 (01:53:50):
Where can they send them?

Speaker 5 (01:53:50):
Alex Crue Beautybrooklyn Podcast at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:53:55):
Email us at the True Beautybook Them Podcast at gmail
dot com. Also you can dm us on Instagram at
True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:54:07):
What else can they do?

Speaker 3 (01:54:09):
Oh my god?

Speaker 4 (01:54:09):
You guys can a rate review and subscribe. You can
rate review, subscribe, rate review, subscribe.

Speaker 5 (01:54:16):
We would really appreciate it. We would love that.

Speaker 3 (01:54:18):
And you can tell your mama, you can tell your cousin,
you can tell your friend.

Speaker 4 (01:54:22):
You can listen to our back catalog, which everybody exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:54:25):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (01:54:26):
Don't judge us because our audio wasn't great at the beginning.
It took us a while to figure out microphones. Don't
judge us, but we loved you guys enough it gets better,
as you can hear. But we had someone to just
fucking say. We were just like, let's just talk and
we'll figure out the rest later.

Speaker 5 (01:54:44):
I bet you we are so We love you guys
so much.

Speaker 4 (01:54:50):
Write us, tell us what you think, tell us about
your problems, tell us about your man, tell us about
your lady, tell us about all the problems, tell us
about everything.

Speaker 5 (01:54:58):
We'll do our best to.

Speaker 3 (01:54:59):
Help you guys. Yeah, that's the true beauties. We love
you guys.

Speaker 5 (01:55:03):
Bye bye next time.

Speaker 4 (01:55:07):
This has been a cooc BK production produced by US
Elizabeth Taylor and Alex Shapiro.

Speaker 5 (01:55:13):
Our engineer is Bart Tripoli.

Speaker 4 (01:55:15):
Our theme music composer is Zebra San. Our artwork is
by Garrett Ross.

Speaker 5 (01:55:19):
Our photos, hair and makeup are by Sabrina and Joe Holdsworth.
If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show,
go to midroll dot com slash ads.

Speaker 3 (01:55:27):
For more information, go to exactly Rightmedia dot com