Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 1: My Firstest Murder

It’s time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia!

Join Karen and Georgia as they rewind to January 13, 2016 for an Episode 1 listening party featuring favorite moments and all new commentary. Throughout the episode, they reflect on the show’s beginnings, discuss important case updates and everything that’s changed along the way. In this episode, Georgia covers the murder of JonBenét Ramsey and Karen discusses Sacramento’s East Area rapist. Now everyone can be a day one listener!

Head to social media to share your favorite moments from Episode 1 of My Favorite Murder. 

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Now with updated sources and photos: https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes/1-my-firstest-murder

My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921.

The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last Hellllo, we're here with something new for you guys,
for the whole Murderino community. It's called Rewind with Karen
and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
So we are going back right now to January thirteenth,
twenty sixteen, The Precious Little Baby, and that's the day
our first episode was released, and we're going to add
all new commentary to our favorite moments from the show
just for you.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
And we're going to reflect on the beginnings of this show,
talk about case updates, talk about everything that's changed along
the way. It's been a very long time.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
It has eight and a half years.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
And now you can invite your sister, your coworker, your
gothy librarian friends, so they can now be day one
listeners as well, and you guys can have a listening
party with our commentary.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
What you're about to hear taking place in twenty sixteen.
Just to give you a little context, We're in George's
apartment in East Hollywood. I don't think there was air conditioning, right.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Oh, definitely not air conditioning.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Air conditioning. Obama was president, David Bowie had just died.
It was a real innocent time and place. We decided
to kick this thing off and.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
We had no idea.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
We had no freaking clue, Like, can you imagine back
then if we had any idea what was going to happen?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
It was like a time traveler that came and talked,
that knocked on the door, that was like, guys, what
you're about to do is going to change your life
all life.

Speaker 4 (01:45):
Be like, fuck you. You know what I was thinking.
You know what's comparing it to in my.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Head is the podcast is like we were at a
rave and there was some cool like house music going
on and the like chilling room when we're chilling, and
we didn't know that suddenly the beat was about to
drop so fucking hard, and we would be fucking on
the speakers dancing to that fucking beat drop, like we
had no idea.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
We had no idea, and we forgot that we had
done drugs forty five minutes previous. So the beat drops
right as the drugs kicking right and suddenly some a
lot of things are happening. And the main thing that happened,
and I think the main thing we didn't expect was
being like was feedback that this thing we were making

(02:28):
was not us in a little cocoon. It was we're
putting it obviously out into the world, and then the
world began to talk to us, and that I think
has been the most mind blowing, sometimes very frightening, and
sometimes incredibly affording. Were Yeah, like, you know, really nice.

(02:51):
The people that like us, really love us, and that's
what we have focused on this whole time.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
They've given us a lot of grace and I appreciate
that and giving us the opportunity to take that grace
and do something with it.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
For example, in this first episode, we use the word
prostitute like it ain't no thing.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Well at the time, it ain't. No. It was literally
what newscasters used.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
It was what they.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Were using over on twenty twenty and Dateline and everywhere else.
Was this was the word that was used.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
You know why, because at that rate, there were no
other people like us at that rave. I'm gonna keep
going ba go to the Rake metaphor, there was nobody
else doing them. Last podcast in the Left they were
obviously doing that, but this kind of conversational spectator true
crime podcast with two women was not really a thing

(03:42):
back then. No, So you know, keep that in mind
when you listen.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Please, Yeah, there's a lot of well, it's just too
it's basically a private conversation that got recorded and then distributed.
There's also a lot of nervous laughing. That's a thing
over the years that I have recognized in myself that
I was a person who laughed to fill the air.

(04:10):
I think it's because of my stand up comedy background,
where that's you know, go along, get along kind of thing,
but it's also where talking about this comedically at like
we were being cool, and I think that was a
very first year or first even four months kind of
energy that we had, and immediately people started talking to

(04:33):
us about it, and then it was like, oh, oh
that's we will never say that word again, or we're
doing this wrong, or it just became this like awakening
of like oh this is we're like, we're doing this now.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
Yeah, people are listening to us.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
We have a responsibility as women, I feel like, to
you know, set a certain standard, and I don't think
we realized that was going to happen yet, And so
there is a lot at all nervous giggling. There is
like I love like, I love like now we would
never say something like that. Yeah, you know, it's like
we really learned.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Well, we just realized, like we didn't consider ourselves professionals
or anything like that, but we realized there was a
standard that we needed to start kind of broadcasting up to.
And we had this opportunity and this platform to actually
make that change, to actually listen when people said, hey,
you said this, and this is how I took it

(05:25):
and I did not like it. You don't have to
listen to every single person that says that, but there
are people who say it and they have a great point,
and you go, yeah, you're right. I'm going to incorporate that,
and that's a change I want to make, and that
makes perfect sense.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Totally, Like every correction doesn't have to be a condemnation.
It's an opportunity for you to grow and change and
become a bigger person.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Which I actually think. I mean, this might sound self congratulatory,
but I honestly think that's why people listen. It's because
when have you ever listened to people having a conversation
and then you go back a week later and they're like, ooh, hey, listen,
I fucked that up, And like we didn't, I think
because we just were like, yeah, we corrections corner came

(06:07):
up before any corrections.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
You made up the idea for a corrections corner, yeah,
before like, yes, we're gonna get things wrong. And that's
another thing too, it's like coming into it being like,
we're not experts. Go watch the documentary. You put an expert.
I think like not being smarty pants about it was
very helpful.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
It wasn't really a choice. That's the other thing. But
we're both such smarty pants, but we're both such PhD
we are I mean in this episode, Oh no, sorry,
it's the next episode. I thought I was just gonna
be able to tell my story off the top of
my head.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
It was really we both really were just like, here's
my story. There's no story, right, we're just chatting.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
It was very you know, the armchair quarterbacks that are
there to talk about the game that they just watched.
So it was you know, and it was so fun
to finally give ourselves permission. And I think the permission piece,
which for people today now that it's so normalized and
it is a thing that people it's everything on Netflix,

(07:10):
it's everything that people talk about. Back then, the act
of giving ourselves permission to say we like this, then
we want to talk about it. People would write in
and say, I've never been able to talk about.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
True, that doesn't happen anymore. And that's such a good point.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Is the reason we started this podcast is because personally
I didn't have other friends I could talk to about this, right,
Like people would say to me why when I'd say
where are you from? And they tell me, and I'd
tell them the murder that happened, the big murder that
happened in their town, Like, no one wanted to hear that, right.
And when I found you and you were like, let's
go sit at a cafe for five hours and talk
about this, I was like, oh, like this is so exciting.

(07:49):
This is all I want to discuss because my anxiety
around this is horrible. And that's how I cope with
anxiety is, you know, is talking it out and diving into,
diving in and seeing, you know, relating to other people.
And so the fact that we started it just for
that reason, not expecting that anyone else would want to listen,
because our friend wouldn't want to listen.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Right, And also the thing of us talking about therapy,
which is I think at the time, something you and
I were doing freely and we didn't care. But a
lot of other people felt like it was, you know,
the scarlet letter somehow, or it meant something really bad.
And that has changed so much just culturally, just because

(08:30):
everyone's like, oh no, I get to be healthy and happy.
Fuck off. But back then, I think you and I
very ignorantly, were just like, yeah, we go to therapy,
we really need it.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
Here's what my therapist said. I'm flie.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
That's all I'm thinking about this week. Yeah, because I'm
falling apart.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Also, I really have to apologize to my sister's friend
Adrian because I call her prissy within the first fifteen
seconds of that episode, like one of my closest friends
in the world.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Also isn't really I don't know what I was doing.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
I would not describe her as prissy. She's not at
all like she would win in a bar fight.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
For sure, the bar fight wouldn't start because people would
be so fucking scared, abolutely. But I think the word
I was looking for is I had judged her on
the surface of like she would think I was weird,
like prim and proper almost yeah, but even though she
like but it's just so funny, because I think that
was all those things were these kind of it's almost

(09:29):
like you and I just thought we were going to
talk about, you know, serial killers and whatever, and then
there were just all these weird personal discoveries. Yeah, and
these and other people having personal discoveries and telling us
about the personal discoveries. And also Georgia got the idea
of like doing hometowns. She had that on episode one

(09:50):
where it was like, if you like this and you
know a story that got you into this, tell us
about it. Like, what a brilliant fucking I mean, thanks for.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
That, by the helly Yeah, I mean it was really
cool to take something I actually did in life and
then be able to guess real stories instead of being
the weirdo telling the stories.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
If you're trying to make up a podcast for yourself,
I would recommend that you do exactly what Georgia did,
which is what is the thing that embarrasses you that
you do so much and no one else understands And
if you take that onto the mic, you will have
your mind blown. And how many people are just like you.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Well, it's very telling, and I know we talk about this,
We've talked about this a lot, but we were both
reading Brene Brown Staring greatly when we started this podcast,
so it was like vulnerability, like to.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Eleven, vulnerability at a Rave.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Vulnerability.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Well, and also I think being the age that I
was too, it's like I'd done lots of things, tried
lots of things, and it was finally, like I was
in my late forties, going I don't give a shit,
like vulnerability is the only way, because I've done all
those other ways and they're fake and other people know

(11:04):
you're being fake and it doesn't work and whatever. So
there's yeah, I think there was just lots of It
was just like for us, maybe the perfect time and place.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, definitely in our lives. There's no way that. Yeah,
that can't be denied.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
So right now we're going to throw to a nice
chunk from the beginning of this episode, just so you
get the sense of what that is, and then if
you want to listen to the full episode, obviously the
whole catalog is up and it always has been, but
this is just more of like if you have a
friend who's told you, oh, I want to listen to
that podcast, but it's been going on for so long
that it's too late. I won't get it. Quote unquote,

(11:43):
We're here to tell you there's literally nothing to get
It's almost the same every single time. We are just
doing riffs in the middle and then changing the topic
to something horrifying and compelling and people's stories like, it's
the same every time.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
So if you've listened from the beginning but it's been
a while, this is kind of like the best of
so you can also like give it to your mom
to listen to without having to start from the very beginning.
Actually yeah, so just stay to the end. We'll be
commenting throughout the whole thing, and thank you guys for listening.
Here is the intro.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Let's go back, let's rewind.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
It's really happy, really happening.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Georgia, Hey, hard start, Karen.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Killgea, just go to sleep. Let's get comfy.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Let's just relax into what we're about to do, which
is our new podcast, my favorite murder.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Let's get cozy and comfy and you can cuddle up
and talk about murder.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Talk about the thing that makes you feel most romantic murder.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
We got a fire lit, We're having some hot cocoa.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm swirling a brandy around yeah, over my head. Uh no,
I love this topic and that's why we're friends.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, we've talked about this for a long time, about
true crime and what our favorite ones are.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Because that sounds creepy, but.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
That's who we are.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I feel like we were at a party and something
along this topic came up, and that's how you and
I were both like like shoulder grab moment.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
I remember which one it was, What was it? It
was the staircase. Yes, everyone's favorite, wasn't it.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
And because we were at a party and a girl
we were there with Aaron Dewey Lennox. She has a
photo from prom of herself on that staircase.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
No, you're shaking your head now.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
No, I'm just freaking out. I didn't see that. You
didn't I are you talking about Matt's Halloween party last year?

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:49):
I didn't see that.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
My god.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
So she was friends with that family in high school,
so like before it happened, there was prom. She went
to prom with this the daughter her friend photo of
them in their prom dresses on the staircase. Oh my god,
the staircase of the staircase story unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
I know, what does she think, what's her opinion?

Speaker 3 (14:12):
I think she thinks a burden of it, which I
think is the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
The owl theory. Yeah, no, right, that is made up
as hell.

Speaker 3 (14:19):
Everyone watched the Staircase and then laugh along with us
at the owl story.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
You know what's funny is I just recommended my my
sister's best friend, Adrian, who's basically like my other sister
I grew up with. She was she I told her
we were going to do this, and the second I
said it, and I did not know this about her.
I've known her since I was twelve.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Oh my god, I love it.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Uh she goes, oh, well, night socker, it has to
be nightsucker first and foremal and I was like, wait,
I didn't realize you had an opinion about this. She's like,
oh my god, I love serial killers. And I was like, what,
Like she was always the pressy girl and like the
or I mean, not prissy, but just in know. I
just thought it was so weird and perverted all my
life for loving this.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Topic so much anyone, because they're gonna think you're psychotic
or like like into murder, which you're not. You're just
like fascinated by the idea.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
The whole concept, right, So that was awesome. Then I said,
you have to watch this series. You'll freak out. Yeah,
And she's been texting me up as she's watching it,
like can't believe it, just all emojis.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
So basically, yeah, go watch it.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
But this this chick's husband fucking killed her because she
found out that he was having like a child moluster
or something.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Right, No, no, no, no, he was having a fair. He
was like paying for male prostitutes.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
And she found out like right before he murdered her.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
I mean that the owl playing into that makes it
makes it seem more unlikely when you know about the
male prostitutes. It does. It throws a what do you
call a ranch in the works a little bit for
the owl.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
It throws a male prostitute into the thing.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
It throws a live owl into the works. It's so crazy,
but I understand there. You know, there's people making argument
that like he got railroaded because of the male prostitute
things right, and painted a picture of him that wasn't
real or whatever. But that's still bullshit because you can
still kill your wife and be railroaded. In Southern people

(16:12):
be biased against you because you're secretly.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Southern people aren't the tolerant of.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
The Southern, And I'll be intolerant by saying all Southern
people are intolerant, but it's absolutely true across the board.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
That's what we're about, big, big facts and truths.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
So stop listening now. You can't handle the truth and facts.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Or spoilers like the guy killed his wife like on
the stair, like it's not a mystery.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
I don't think.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
I don't think a spoiler is ever the guy killed
his wife, because that's like, yeah, the guy killed his wife.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, so the spoiler is an owl in it.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
That's exactly right. Good point.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
So we're gonna so this is we're calling this my
favorite murder. You're just recording, so do you want to start? Wait?
Is this what we're Should we start murder? And it's
gonna be real fucked up?

Speaker 3 (17:01):
And Dustin brought up a great point that we might
be inviting a murderer into our lives by doing this.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
I mean, but here's the thing, and this is why
I'm so fascinated by this topic in general. We might
already know.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
A murderer, Oh my god, like probably.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Probably, and in that way where they're just in a
very catlike, removed dexter way, just observing all this with
the kind of oh they think there's.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
They think they're you. Yeah, how sweet?

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Ut.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yeah, so I guess the disclaimers these don't kill us
because we can't do this podcast anymore. This is why
we're friends, because we love murder.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Murder And the one time I was stone at a
party and decided to tell people one of the worst
things I've ever seen. I made people blanche and walk
away from our from our circle, and Georgia moved closer
with the white eyes she has right now, going oh
my god, this is amazing. It's when I I don't
know why I did it. I do this is hard

(17:53):
to tell me love it. It was when I think
it was at that same party. Yeah uh, somebody asked
me what had been going on lately, And it was
right after I got back from south By Southwest, or
not right after for some reason the south By Southwest
the car a car accident came up, and my big brag,
which never pans out as a brag, I always think
it is like, how fascinating about me? And no one

(18:15):
ever agrees is that I was there when it happened,
and I didn't see it. My back was to it.
I heard it.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Tell everyone what it was.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Oh sorry. At south By Southwest two years ago, a
guy was in a police chase and he turned up
a street that was cordoned off for people to mill
about because it was a festival, and so all the
people standing in the street in front of the theater
where X was playing got plowed down old punk rockers. Yeah,

(18:43):
and I had been standing last in line to get in,
so I would have been the first person hit. But
I decided to walk away.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Are you ever like.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Fuh yeah, because you know me in lines and waiting
and how I won't don't go anywhere or do anything.
So I walked away to see my friend at the front, like, hey,
let's just stand out here and listen to the music.
The car comes, people fly like cardboard boxes. I tell
this story in groups of people and people are literally
like bumming out hard.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
And I had just read about it that afternoon, and
I was like, tell me everything, because that's why. Like,
car accidents are another thing. I've had two ex boyfriends
and my one best friend dying car accidents. What yeah,
what yeah, two ex boyfriends. They were ex boyfriends at
the time, but they were important ones you know from
like high school died in car accidents. One my best

(19:31):
friend from my school died in car accident. Don't drink
and drive, you guys. That's horrible, I know. So like,
I'm just fucking want to hear all about it.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
And I'm also I'm also.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Big and like anything could happen at any moment. You'll
never know about it. Like I don't sit near a
window at a restaurant because I am like a car
is going to come creaning through the fucking window and
kill me.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Sure, so that's shit to me. Is like, tell me
everything so I can avoid it.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yes, that's what. That's what all this is. Really. I
just want to collect information and hear theories and stories
so that I can be braced so that when I
see the weird, you know that the one thing's out
of the knife walk totally.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I'm ready totally Like why is there an open soda can? Yes?
I don't.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Why don't drink PEPSI Now, I know it's tough here,
so keep us in context. We're just we're living the life.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Try listen.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
We both have really bad anxiety. I just want everyone
should know that.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
We're like, oh, that's clear.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
I hope it's clear that we're clinically anxious people. On
all the meds, it doesn't work. This is me at
like a baseline, like medicated. I'm doing okay anxiety.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I just don't leave my house almost ever.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Right, you have two ferocious dogs.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
I have dogs that guard the door, and we just
stay indoors all the time.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Secret, everything locked, windows are locked and closed.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
I don't know how you live. I shouldn't say this.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Actually, how I live in that house on the first floor. Well,
that's my huge, huge here.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
It's scary. But those dogs, that's why I got those dogs.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
True, that's true.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
I live for a couple months without those dogs, and
every night I would just lay in my bed like
I would hear things like it is crazy because also
the quieter it is the worst. It is because then
you're just like then your brain is is telling you
you're hearing things. It was nuts, and I was finally like.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Just get it.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Look at a dog. Yeah, good for you, thank you. Yeah,
I'm a hero.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
I always have a boyfriend. No, that's not why.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Also because I don't I have a seizure when I
was a kid once, and I don't want to sleep
alone anymore.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Oh, tell me about it.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Also, I love Vince, but also it's nice to not
get murdered.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Also, I love Vince. Comes third. The murder is important though,
because you have to live to be able to love him.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
But here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
What if he murders me? I mean, how to think
about your husband.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Here's what I'm telling you. The book I write will
do you proud because so much I will be the
Anne Rule. I'll be like, guys, I was there the
whole time. You would never have known he wanted.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
To murder her.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, those the best Still Waters, You're like
that guy's the best. Just I'm saying people that are
like you have never known that from them.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
That's the name of the book.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Still Waters Run Deep.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah. The story, Okay should we tell?

Speaker 3 (22:08):
Okay, so then we'll tell each our favorite murders and
then okay, well here's what we want. If you guys,
stop listening and during the murder part, because you hate us,
before you do that, listen to this.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
I We're obsessed with people's like.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Hometown murder, kidnapping, fucked up crazy stories, yeah. I have
always asked people at bars and they stop talking to
me because I want to know.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
They're like, what was the crazy thing that happen in
your town?

Speaker 1 (22:32):
And they can't handle that level of conversations. Better you're
not talking to them. I completely agree, get out and
I don't have one, really one of those stories. Because
you're from LA.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
I'm from Orange County. Nothing that happens there. No, there's
some shit. So we want you to email us. You
can email me at.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
My favorite murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Your town story. But but don't say, like, here's the
town story, put a link in it. I want.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
We want in your own voice, like, so this fucking
thing happened and I was this year's old and my
mom wouldn't let me, and then we used to go
to the house and for a rocks at it. Yep,
here's what happened. Does that happen totally?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Did you do that? Yep?

Speaker 3 (23:10):
You have a Well we'll see. Well we can go
then talk about Polyclass.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I mean that one. Yeah, that one's rough because
it's so famous and the town was so small. I'm
from Pedaloma where the little girl Polyclass got taken out
of her bedroom by a man while she was having
a slumber party.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Multiple people were.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
There, Yeah, multiple little girls.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
Why did he do it? Then? Do we know?

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Nobody knows that there were lots of theories that the
dad had like bad debts or was involved in drugs.
But that's kind of of course, small town gossips extreme too.
It's crazy. And also, this guy was a total like
Charles Manson, in and out of jail all his life.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Sweep them in jail. That's another problem.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Simple, it's so simple.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Like rapists get three to five years. Stop doing that.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
That's so insane.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
You know, we're gonna do a lot of good on
this spot.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
I feel like we're gonna change laws.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
We're gonna be advocates, victims advocates.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Marsca Hargetsa is gonna guest spot on it once.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
She's gonna she's gonna deliver our speech.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
No, I don't know what I'm saying. She's gonna get
me word metal the podcast wars.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Listen, there are lots of rape kits that are backlog
thousands and thousands.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Let's get those rape kits testing.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Hey guys, hey guys, let's get those rape kits like
it's hits.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
There's like a there's like a loosely closed door and
on the other side of and it called a rape kit.
And on the other side of that door is the
person who did it.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
And probably other bad things that you might want to
know about.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Probably should we come from the fact that we're gonna
call it my favorite murder? Do we agree to that
on the spot?

Speaker 1 (24:56):
We agree to it on the spot?

Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, I love that. That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
It's the same thing with when I played that theme
song in my while I was watching TV. I think
I paused the TV, I got the idea for what
it could be, sent it to you in a voice note,
and you were like, sure, that's it. It was just
like okay, because I was like, well it could be this,
and it was like I there was no discussion at all,
and you just you just rubber stamp that thing and

(25:24):
put it right up.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Done.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
I'm a yes, lady. I think there is a mention
that you mentioned let me let me rock out for
the theme song. I think you mentioned that, and then
you do it, and I'm like perfect, moving.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
On, moving on, We've done it.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
Oh, It's like it's kind of great because it's if
we had known, maybe it wouldn't have been so simply executed.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
We couldn't have known.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
And also, yeah, I think that's that those details that
seems so important, they didn't seem that important at the time.
I mean we were just hanging out.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, what was going on in your life at the time.
In twenty sixteen, I.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Had two fucking jobs, trying to keep my head above
water as I slowly went underwater with my mortgage, and
so this was the last thing I was supposed to
be doing because I had two full time writing jobs, yeah,
and trying to like transition between one and the other
and doing this. But I was like, yeah, it's so fun,

(26:20):
and I want to have something because I was so
tired of in my career doing stuff that was just
like for money to get It just started feeling so
crazy to work so much for money and nothing else.
And so it was like when you had this idea
and you were like, we should do this, don't you
think And it was like, yeah, we definitely should.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
We need an extracurricular activity.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
I needed like something that wasn't something that wasn't comedy.
People from comedy, all the people from all the jobs
I've ever had, Like I loved the idea, and also,
you know, the first couple times you and I hung out,
and I think we've talked about this a lot, but
like the energy you have, like at a party is
some of my favorite kind of energy because you're you

(27:06):
are a manic well you're like a very light social
shit disturber in a way. That is my favorite.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
God, because you're just like that's the biggest compliment I've
ever had.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
You like look around and then you're like, you know,
am I about to yell something like make everyone say
what they're thankful for? Or am I about to belch
so loudly that people are going to like have their
hair blown back?

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
All of it equals fun.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yes, so I needed more fun in my life, for sure.

Speaker 4 (27:35):
I love that. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it was that.
It was just for fun.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Vince has mentioned in this first one as though he
might kill me and you're going to write the memoir
about it. Oh yeah, yeah, so that hasn't happened yet,
which is nice. And I'm still with I can't believe
I'm still with the same person, like as someone who's
always been in a series of three to five year relationships.
The fact that I'm still with the dude from the
beginning of this podcast is like awesome to me.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, you've done it.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
That's a huge accomplishment for sure.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Okay, well my story is first, I think, right, Yeah,
I do a classic Jambonet Ramsey. So here we go,
let's rewind.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Should we go? Should we do my favorite murder?

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yes? Do you want to go first?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (28:20):
I think this is an obvious one, So like, yeah,
what do we Okay, my favorite official voice.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
I'm really excited, you know, let's get real.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
I mean we're like, we're just gonna do every week
our favorite murder, like a murder story we love. Yeah,
and I had so I had to start like a
good one because it's and it's new.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
I'm newly interested in this. My what I was just
gonna say one thing. We know other people love this
as much as we do. So if we mess up information,
don't be afraid to tell us because I understand, like,
when I hear people talking about something, it drives me
crazy if I know the real thing, because it is
my passion. But I also am very an inaccurate and
messy person. So if I get it wrong and you

(29:01):
want to tell us, please do and we'll talk about it.
I appreciate that because I'm so nervous about getting any
of this wrong that I'm going to give less information
than I like would think I have and also tell
us more information that you know.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Or like cool things that you know about it.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Maybe.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, I think at the end of the episodes we
should just like read listener mail of Like, I think.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's a great idea. Well, how about we have a
whole segment that's like correction constriction.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
How do I have like a supplement two hour podcasts
of just corrections?

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah, every week because I I my passion is for
the act and for specific stories within it, but like
I'll always get the numbers wrong or the years wrong.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
My passion is for the insanity of it and the
fact that this thing stuff happens.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, so tell us when we're wrong.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
You just jump into this nicely though, you don't get
on your high horse about it. Just calm down.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, Okay, now that we got that out of them. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
My favorite murder is that of Jean Benet Ramsey, like classic,
which I used to think was stupid and boring. Until
I listened to last podcast on the lefts two part
in depth discussion of it, Yes, and I was like, oh,
this is way more fascinating than I remember.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yes, I love that podcast. You turned me onto it
so good, and you turned me onto it because of
those episodes which I immediately listened to, and those guys
are so on it with all of their research.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeaho oh, we are not.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
We're not going to do that.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
So no, everyone knows that basically, a six year old
girl was murdered in her home in Boulder, Colorado, nineteenety six.
She was a beauty queen, which I think kind of
I think just kind of sullies the whole thing because
it's really just a little girl and the giddy pageant
stuff has nothing to do with.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
It, right, except for you could stop right there and
still have a real good horror story because she's a
six year old girl.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
They're babies children.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I was telling you that that I was looking at
a picture of her and then remembered that she's sick. Yeah,
like one year older than five, and she looks like
she's ten.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Does.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's dirty? The whole thing is the creepiest.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
And she has she looks smarter than she looks a
little knowing yes, which is fucked up. Yeah, And I
feel like I feel like the beauty pageant thing was
a big deal because it kind of because it was
never solved this crime, which I don't think is true.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
I think her father killed her, which we'll get into.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
But the fact that it's like, well, maybe a child
moluster did it, because I feel like that kind of
made it seem that way. That because she's this dressed
up woman basically as a child, and maybe she was,
she was murdered by a child moluster or fan, right
or something, right, when really I think she was. It
just happened to be her father who was that person?

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Like that became the red herring, Right, that really is
such a heart You can't ignore red heiring like that
because it's the thing itself is so creepy. Yeah, it's
like being in a cult, being in child pageants.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Right, definitely.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
It's like the Satan scare of the eighties when they
thought everyone was all these kids were Satanists. Yeah, but really,
God and Satan don't exist. That's impossible. Wait wait what
so then yeah, so I think that the dad did it.
He there's like a lot of weird things about it.
The ransom letter is three pages, which is the longest

(32:13):
ransom letter in murder history. That's the thing that's I'm
gonna get corrected about probably, but it and it was
written on there on the notepad in the Ramsey house
with their pens. So the killer did this and then
wrote a three page ransom note, just chilled the fuck
out and wrote a note.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, like who would do that?

Speaker 3 (32:34):
And she was already dead in the basement from blunt
force trauma. She had blunt forest trauma to had which
would have killed her, but she was then strangled, which
is what ended up killing her for real.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
It's just so fucked up, and the ransom note is incredible.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Also, the fact that there are children playing out in
your alley right now.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
So we can hear you can hear that in the background.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
It's the perfect background.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
No, it's it's good, Okay, it just was.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
I was like, why am I so uncomfortable right now?
And I'm like, because there's a child screaming somewhere.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh, it's also wrong.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
It's so upset.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
So listen to the I know you hate this, but
listen to the nine one one.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
I can't do it. Yeah, is it Patsy?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
It's Patsy freaking the fuck out.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
But the wording in her call, and if you like
listen to it and listen to the interpretation, like she's
saying everything wrong. She's not like she's not saying my
daughter is missing. She's saying we.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
Have a kidnapping.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Like she's not taking personal responsibility for what's going like
for what is happening to her or her daughter. Right,
she's kind of making it more generalized.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
She's setting up a story.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
It sounds like, yeah, and there's all these interpretations people
say about like you know, not asking for help.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
They're saying for her daughter.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
She's like begging for someone to deal with it instead.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Of asking for help for her daughter. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
And then there's like people say that one of the
ways you know they're lying is because that they said
that their son was like ten was sleep upstairs until
like after the police had got there. But in the
background with analysis with the nine on one call, you
can hear his voice, Oh yeah, and there's just all
these little things.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Oh so it could be like some family events took
place and this was like the clean up version.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Well, another weird thing is that there.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
So they found pineapple during the autopsy in her stomach
that she had eaten before she died, because it hadn't
been digested and there and there was a bowl of
pineapple with a spoon in it on the table and
the son's fingerprints were on the bowl. But the parents
said that they put her right to bed when they
got home from a Christmas party that night.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
That's the thing that happened.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
On Christmas Eve, yeah, or Christmas yeah, Christmas Eve yeah yeah,
because that's why there was no good cops.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Right, All the good cops were at home all the Christmas.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Weren't living in Boulder, Colorado, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
And then okay, the other weird thing in the ransom
note the okay, so there these people are billionaires. Yeah,
and the killer asked for the ransom. They made it
look like a kidnapping, which is why they were with
the ransom note. They asked for one hundred and eighteen
thousand dollars as the ransom, which like PORPUO, like that's
a lot of money. It's not a lot of money,
but also that's a very specific amount, and it's also

(35:14):
the amount that John Ramsey had been given as a
Christmas bonus that year.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Do you think they were trying to set it up
to make it look like someone knew that and there
that's why it was such a specific number. Yes, like
they were trying to lead people away from themselves.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yes, definitely. Well the whole note does that too. And
then but the other weird thing I think we talked
about this is that when they were doing sample handwritings
of the mom and dad, so Patsy Ramsey as the mother,
was how to rewrite the note, and instead of writing
one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars numerically, she wrote out
one hundred eighteen thousand, Like, who the fuck does that? Like,

(35:52):
that's so stupid. Obviously you're trying to mask something.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Unless she loves calligraphy and that's her thing.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Well, they's basically a bunch of handwriting. Analysis said that
it's her handwriting, really got it out, really, Yeah, but
then I've read other stuff that it's his as well.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
It's even then though, if it's like some kind of
in family murder, whoever wrote the note doesn't mean that's
the killing exactly. It's just that there it's collusion exactly.
Is that the right?

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Well, let us know, tell us, correct us. I'm gonna
throw out stuff like that because it feels good in
my brain.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Felt good when you said I was like, yeah, she
was right.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
That's collusion, goddamn it. And they're like, that's actually a
rare alcohol from Fiji.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Ill have the collusion on the wrongs.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
I just love the story because I'm so I'm equally
convinced that it's one of the parents, that it's both
of the parents, that it's the sun. But I don't
think it's anyone outside the family. Now, what's the deal
with the sun?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
So the son was like, I think he was ten.
He had hit her with a.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Golf club the past in the face, but it was
an accident. Supposedly, people all over the you know, I
don't know if you know this, but people on the
internet have theories and talk about those.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Oh yeah, So people's.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Theories are that it was him.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
He hit her over the head with like a golf
club or something, which is because she has blunt forced
trauma from being hit with something. So then maybe she
was dying and one of the parents killed her to
make and then set it up to make look like
a kidnapping and a murder. So that the son wouldn't
get in trouble for it.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
But I mean talk about picking a favorite child.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah, that's a little he never got.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
He didn't get spoken to about the police for a month,
and when he did.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
It was like quick, nothing right, he's so young. I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
I remember reading that they after the first night where
every the cops that had never been cops before showed
up to not secure the scene. Then whatever they talked
to them about that night, the Patsy and John right, John,
John Ya, they also weren't interviewed for m oh. They
had so much time to rehearse what their story was,

(38:07):
definitely and lock it all down.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
I mean just the fact that like they had searched
the house multiple times over and finally were like sent
John the father to go search the house just to
give him something to do. And he goes into the
secret wine room off the weird basement and happens to
find her after eight hours of the cops having hid
been there. Wow, grabs her body, takes the tape off

(38:32):
of her mouth, and brings her upstairs, thus ruining any
DNA evidence that you could have used. Yeah, and then
and then Patsy throws herself on the body she did. Yeah,
so the DNA shit is just fucked.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
I mean, that's all guilty, is it? Hindsight?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
I kind of wonder though, like, I don't know, would you.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Well hard to say, I don't think I would throw
myself onto the body of a dead child.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
No, No, I mean.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
I try hard to say, let's reenact this, let's let's
have a child okay, and let's have it murder six
years from now.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
I just can't the idea of like real quick problem solve. Okay,
Junior messed up again? This guy, boys will be boys.
I'm going to strangle her to death.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so much.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
It's such a it's such an oversoulve.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
It's a big from A to B.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Plus wouldn't you want your your fucking psychopac kid who
ruined your like.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Prize DA killed your prize daughter to get in trouble
for that, right, people? Don't I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
I mean, yeah, she that's where that theory falls Apart
from me, she is clearly the prize pony.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Right, which is why maybe he wanted to kill her.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Of course, But then so I see them covering, I
see them covering, like note wise, and that's bad.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Nine mo and all that just not killing her, but
not the killing maybe she they didn't know she wasn't
dead yet, so they put the over her.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
No, she was breathing. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
I mean, we're not going to solve it tonight.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Are we. Oh? I thought that's what this podcast was.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
I mean, let's not even talk about the underwhear she
had on, the weird underwhear she had on that they
found DNA on it that didn't match the family.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
It was not the brother's DNA.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
No, that she was.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Sexually assaulted, but they also said that it looked like
it was it had been you know, over a period
of time. It wasn't even like that night she was
actually assaulted. It was like, this is something that's been
happening for a long time. So here's where we'd give
you some updates if the case has any Unfortunately, as

(40:42):
you definitely know, this case doesn't have any. Yeah, it's
still cold, it's still being looked into, but you know,
there's really no new findings.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
I mean, if anything, it does have the feeling on
par with Jack the Ripper, where the theories this stuff
is starting to pile up. The act usations. Then people
get getting cleared like I remember, wasn't Worth Patsy and
the father cleared? Yes, by the DA recently or something

(41:11):
so sketchy, Oh was it? Yeah, but it was after
her death, right, yeah, I think so. And then here
we go again, speculates Jesus Christ. We can This is like,
it's fucking we're trying to give ourselves a take to
and we can't even do it.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
This is what we'll comment on in eight and a
half years when we're commenting on the commenting on Jesus
episodes rist Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Anyway, But point being the frustration of those kinds of
cases where the more people talk about it, the less
people seem to know.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Yeah, and the more like just theories and you know
info you get that gets thrown in, the more muddled
it gets somehow in a way that it'll never get solid.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Well.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
And also just saying that, being aware of saying that,
where it's like people giving their opinion. Yeah, you know,
I don't believe in the owl theory or whatever that's opinion,
but people do in true crime, of course, take it
so far where it's like, no, they did it. It's
this surety of the conversation, I think is the thing

(42:08):
that it ends up really screwing people in the end,
which again is why we constantly reminded people we don't
know what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Watch the documentary, and sometimes the documentary doesn't know what
they're talking about.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
So I mean, and sometimes we don't learn in life,
no one knows what they're fucking talking about. So we're
about to go into my story.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Here.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Here's the thing A plus to us for structure on
this thing. The structure of this show makes sense. It's
so workable.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
We stuck to it. That's really That is funny that
we never had to make a structure change.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
No, because it was so good. This scaffolding was solid
from day fucking one.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
So me, I tell you, that's like it.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
And it's a surprise. Yeah, fun times always. For my story,
I covered the East Area rapist. I think it was
before Michelle's article where she renamed him the Golden State Killer?
Am I right about that?

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (42:58):
I mean, this is just so eerie that you covered
this case and there's so much I mean, there's so
much that happened after you covered it.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, these are two cases where yours nothing's ever happened
in mine, It got solved, it got sold. Michelle McNamara
wrote a book about this case, a very incredible Los
Angeles magazine article about this case, renaming DiAngelo the Golden

(43:29):
State killer. Paul Holes gets introduced into the storyline, and then,
as we all know, Michelle passed away. I think it
was about three months after this episode came out.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, and then Joseph James Dangelo was captured and arrested
a little over two years after this episode came out.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Yeah, wild, so.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Wild, and something no one ever imagined. I mean, I
think that looking back, that piece of looking back is
so incredibly satisfying. What if we could make a pod
cast where you could look back on all of them
and be like, and then it got.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
Sold, that's the so satisfying.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
It's kind of the point I think people are in
here going, Hey, this is important. These people have to
be like, we're talking about serial killers, people who who
have to be found, who their cases need to be solved,
so those people don't get to walk around killing people
serially right anymore.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
And I think this is kind of the biggest example
of that too. So yeah, incredible, Yeah, here we.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Go, Hey, Karen Yeah, what's your favorite murder?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Favorite murder?

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Can you write a ballad for this? Can you write
like a.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Totally I'll do like a kind of a hang them
high like murder ballad about Yes, that actually makes me.
I really don't like those songs, those like old Appalachian
country songs I just had to killer. It's always just like, well,
she's done me, I just had to hair high, or
it's like fuck you.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Sing about her parents and how bum they are.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Sing about someone rising up and shooting you in the
back of the shotgun as you go to do it
because you're a jerk. Anyhow, It's not Mine isn't about them.
Mine is about a serial killer that some call the
Original Nightstalker and others called the East Area Rapist. So
this is a guy that was a rapist in Sacramento

(45:29):
in the mid to late seventies. And I went to
college in Sacramento, and uh, it's it's the strangest place.
It's a floodplain and it's the capital of the state,
and it's very hot most of the time.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Kind of like wild West almost.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
It's yeah, it feels there's a real like, uh, it
doesn't feel like California at all and there's almost no
culture whatsoever. It's like it's a lot of taco bells
next to shell stations, over and over underneath power lines.
And maybe that was just the experience I was having
there because I went to college there and I flunked

(46:09):
out of college a year and a half in failed terribly.
But anytime I would drive around, I'd be like, this
is the Wars, Like everything just seemed scary and awful
to me. It's and then the surrounding suburbs like Citrus
Heights and these kind of like outline and this area
where this Easter Aia rapist was going nuts for years,

(46:33):
has this very like sinister It's like nice on the outside,
but something weird's going on.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
Everything beige, yes, beige. That's where I grew up in
Orange County, in Irvine.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Beige. And actually I think he came to Irvine. He did.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
That was second half, that's right. So he started out
as the Easteria rapist and he wasn't killing people yet.
He was just raping women. He was breaking into houses.
So he did the thing he did the recon the
day before he would go. Oftentimes people would say we
heard something on the roof and we didn't even look.
Oh my god, that's why I brought that thing up.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Brilliant.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
He would also break into the houses and look around
do stuff in the houses while they weren't there. Sometimes
he would hide rope under the couch cushions and have
stuff ready so they're ready, so he was all ready.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Oh god, that made me want to throw up.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, he was sinister. And then so basically then he
would break into their house the night of turn the
light on. The couple would be sleeping.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
That's what this troubles me the most about this is.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
That he would do it to couple. So he would
flash a flashlight in their eyes, tell them to wake up.
He'd have a gun on them, mead of ski mask,
and then he would tell the woman to tie up
the man. Then he would go to the kitchen and
get a stack of dishes and bring it back and
stick it on the man's back. And then he would
say to the man, if I hear these dishes move,
I will kill both of you. Then he'd take the woman.

(47:58):
Usually I think like half and half, but I think
most of the time he would take the woman out
into the front room and he would tie her up
there and rape her while the husband could hear in
the in the bedroom. Sometimes he would do it there
and then so in the beginning he was just raping
the woman and leaving both of them. And he also
while he was doing it, he would talk in a

(48:19):
high pitched voice to himself to himself, which is just
think of it. Just think of So you're already in
this like craze panic, Yeah, right, I mean, this is
what I do with all these stories. Is I just
even for a second, try to put yourself there and
picture I'm there there, So you're you're bolt, You're jolted
out of sleep to this weird like what the fuck?

(48:40):
And then it's like some of that's talking like this,
you know what I mean? Like there was one thing
I just read or he said he was he was
repeating to himself, I'm going to kill him. I'm going
to kill it, like chanting it to himself as he
was tying fuck no.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
He seems.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
There's also a phone call with him. He left a
victim a message that a week later and I have
not listened to it.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
It's like, there, can you listen? You can listen to it?

Speaker 1 (49:04):
I think I think because.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Whose wife just wrote a really amazing article about Michelle McNamara.
It's Patton Oswald's wife.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
She is such a fucking badass.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
She wrote the best article about it, and I'd never
heard of it before.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, she has an amazing blog. We will look it
up and tell you it's has the word murder in it.
But if you put Michelle McNamara in the Google search
and murder blog.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
Also, don't call me for I don't mean to call
her someone's wife.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
That's not who she is. She's more than that.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
She's clearly so much more right.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, But this is how you know. But I know
about this serial killer because there's you know, it's funny
when you're like when you follow this and then it's
like you see one story that's on forensic files or something,
and then you see it and you piece it together
where it's like, yeah, the the later murders were reported
first on shows like that, like twenty twenty, so it

(50:00):
was like the murders and Golita and Ventura and Data Point,
and then separately they would report on the East Aia
rapist that was this ridiculous. He had fifty over fifty
rape victims and ten murder victims, and they never caught him.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
That's what's day. Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
They never fuck and you know, I was They said
that maybe he was a construction worker, right.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Yeah, they because he had really intimate knowledge of how
these houses and their backyards were set up, and they
did find a map once that was hand drawn. But
when he would get caught or people anytime there was
a close call, because he liked to mess around and
like almost get caught or like do really dangerous things.
So there would be a neighbor that would like flip

(50:46):
on a light and be like hey, and then they
would watch him run and vault like backyard fences and
stuff like he was in crazy good shape and he
was like he I think fancied himself a cat burglar,
but then also clearly just was you know yeah. But
the the so the creepiest thing, uh, my favorite creepy

(51:11):
thing is they there were so many rapes that were
happening in Sacramento that they had a town meeting, like
a community meeting. You know he was there, right, Well, yeah,
that's so uh in this somebody somebody took a picture
of it for the paper. So they have a group
shot of this town meeting and the cops saying, this

(51:34):
is what's happening. This is them O lookout for this.
If you hear something, report it, report it. Look you know,
all that kind of stuff. If you see weird people walking. Oh.
Because also there was never a car found anywhere near
the scene. He either walked, jogged, rode a bike, or
did something parked far away. Because and that the couple
times there was a guy walking a dog, but every

(51:56):
time they describe the guys looking white and like fit
and normal, like it's that kind of thing where they
it's the person who can fit in and is totally
fitting in and being like a weird murder cuddlefish fitting
in and then disappearing. So, but my favorite thing is
so they had his town meeting and at one point

(52:17):
the cops were just saying, oh, this is happening, and
people are really angry because it's so many. It's like
in the thirties at this point, and this man stands
up and says, I don't think you're telling us everything
we need to know. I don't think this is even possible.
How can a man break into another man's home and
that man has his wife raped right in front of him?
And he does nothing. That's impossible. Two weeks later, that

(52:40):
man and his wife, Oh yes, that his wife was
raped by the East Area rapist two weeks later, so
they know for a fact he was there.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Because so there's a photo and is like everyone identified
in it except for one girl.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
No, because it's like such a large group photo. It's
like a the photographer was standing on the stage in
like a you know, a high school auditorium. Look, So
there's just it's it's really awesome because a lot of
times on specials they'll just take that time to scan
that photo and every face in the photo looks guilty.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Every face is the scariest thing you've ever seen. It's
crazy crazy. Yeah, there's like a there's like a sketch
of him and I'm like, whose dad is that? Because
that guy was young in the seventies, right, Yeah, it's
probably someone's fucking.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Dad now yeah, or even grandpa.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
Grandpa, some mom's boyfriend.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Horrifying or good thing that he like his serious problem
with couples. Yeah, and like needing to degrade the man
and rape the woman.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
There's like there's so much there because that makes it
it's so much harder. The crime is so much harder.
So he's clearly specifically doing it for a reason.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Yeah, and he's doing it so much like he just
did it and kept on doing it. Was just a
thing that was happening in Sacramento for years. Yeah, and
then he's so it was like seventy six is when
he started. Did the summer of seventy six, and then
I think that happened. It went on for two years
in Sacramento. Then he went to the East Bay and

(54:08):
then somewhere I think he went down further Visalia because
they think that's where he started. They called them the
Visalia Ransacker, which is like the nightstalker. Though I know
they because it was pre I think, yeah it was,
but it was like that's really what he was doing

(54:29):
because he would go and scope it out right, but
he just wasn't famous, and he basically kind of disappeared.
Then when those other those same m O murders, rapes
and murders were happening down here, that's when they finally
put it together and there was finally like they say
that that case in the seventies is why they started
developing the DNA database in California because they were going

(54:53):
so crazy about not being able to find him, so they.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Can all link them together. Yeah, I think it happened.
It happened at Irvine in like the early eighties. I
think when I lived there when I was a baby.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Oh yeah, and he's still around. He could potentially still
murdering around. Is he still killing or just not that
anybody knows? Not in that way, not like he you know,
he would type people up with very special knots.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Michelle McNamara wrote these amazing articles if you want to
know more about it, Like she's gone into it in
such a detail. It was it was an LA magazine.
She had an article in LA Magazine, and she has
a ton of stuff on her website.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
I just want to know. I just want to know
the answer. I think that the cut, like for all
these things. And it's funny that we're both talking about
murders that are unsolved, Yes, because I just want to know.
I want the problem solved, like I want the what's
the what's the answer to the riddle?

Speaker 1 (55:47):
And you want it like you want there to be
a better policing system where this doesn't happen so often.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah, it's so easy to point to, like, well, what
did they do wrong?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
And it's so easy to point to it and you
hope that doesn't happen anymore.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
But because this was back in the seventies where they
intentionally withheld information if there were like crossing counties and
it was all that weird police politics that I think
they you know, they know better now and they don't
do anymore. But god, it is like the dark Ages.
Here's one thing coming back out of that. Here's one

(56:23):
thing I'm going to say about all of the stories
you're about to hear. For the first I don't know,
maybe thirty episodes, oh less than that, I would think, yeah,
but for this, we were just talking. There was nothing
written down, wasn't research, there was not even not researched.
It was just like I'll remember what I know about this,

(56:46):
which is the ego of that is insane.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Yeah, it's also like, hear the things about this case
that's made it stuck in my mind, but not the details.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Right, not dates. And that was a very important and
we learned that one very quickly, which is like within
a couple the feedback where it's like these are real people,
these are real cases, if you're going to talk about them,
give the respect. And it was like, oh my god,
you're so right. We don't. We were just kind of
like having a chat, but you're right, don't be citing

(57:19):
these cases incorrectly or not knowingly, victim's names, all of it.
And that was like that kind of thing where you're like, oh,
of course, I'm so embarrassed.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Yes, of course, slap some respect on this. And also
not citing sources. Thank god we started doing me.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
You can't have sources if you don't have a document
you're reading off of. So at least the source, you know,
Michelle McNamara was the source for me being able to
retell this story. But yeah, the source lesson we learned
soon after this, where there's so much material in the

(57:57):
true crime world that floats around, and that is the
hard work of journalists that have broken those stories and
chase down those stories and put the book or the
article or whatever together. And that's the kind of thing
you know, as a professional television writer, I was very
embarrassed by that where I was just like, oh, right, yeah,

(58:17):
this has all been made possible by the journalists and
the writers that have collected these stories already, or.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
The TV producers, right totally.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
The one thing we do really get right here is
like this professional thing we do at the end basically
setting this thing up of like, hey, audience, playball with us. Yeah,
which was, as we've said a million times, that's the
magic sauce the audience being in this conversation with us.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
Definitely. Yeah, we got really lucky.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
So lucky that my personal email address that I gave
out originally still gets hometowns sent to it.

Speaker 4 (58:57):
That's like how new we were.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
I was like, and then in my email address, here
it is, and I like, don't I don't visit that
email address anymore. It's like a wasteland of like, you know, ads.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
And weird shit, probably the weirdest shit. Yeah, so funny. Yeah,
now it's a you can call Georgia at her home
number eight.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
So this is the part of our podcast where we
want to hear your stories.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
You tell us what you what horrible things you love.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
We want to Yeah, we want to hear about your
like crazy fucked up crime story from your town or
that you encountered or that happened to you.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
And you want to hear in.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Your own words, right, be honest, be honest, Email them
to my.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Favorite murder at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
If you expell that wrong, it's your own damn fault
at Gmail. And then we'll also record other people that
we're friends with telling their stories too.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Because everybody has a story about some fucked up thing
that happened in their town totally that they're kind of
obsessed with. And if it's not it doesn't have to
be murder murdered.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
No, no, no, no, it.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Need to be a creepy what's creepy?

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Yeah, fucked up story? Yeah, that you can't tell certain
people at parties.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Yeah, because certain people will walk away with like a
weird white face and rolling their eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Aga, this is a safe space for you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Yeah, thanks for listening everyone, guys. This was the first one,
you guys, our very first favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
But not the last. No, these rewind episodes are going
to be insane.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
They really got into their lawsuit era at that moment.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
It's crazy since it's our lawsuit. Or should we talk
about when people demand that we speak on online we
never can because of contract. Yeah, because we understand that
you want us to come and explain everything and we
want to make it right for you, and we really
wish we could and actually in twenty years when we

(01:00:52):
write the Tell All book, you will know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
But and you know what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
And I would like to think there's always one lawyer murder,
you know in the comments going guys, they might not
be able.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
To talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Yeah, it's like, oh my god, scream that, please please
put it at the top.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
You know us, how much shit do we talk about?

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
It? Regular not allowed to talk about any of it?

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
Like, oh god, you guys, yeah, ask us in person.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
I mean, you know, we are no strangers to controversy,
as most people who have listened to this podcast know,
There's been a lot of shit that's gone down.

Speaker 4 (01:01:27):
Eight and a half years. It's like kind of hard
to avoid.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Eight and a half years of talking about stuff people
do not want two women to be talking about, right,
being very opinionated. But there is one thing we do
really want to say that we kind of aren't allowed
to say. What we do want to say to you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Sure, and yeah, there's a few things that we wish
we could just blurt and talk about and rewind about.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Yeah, if we could go over all the real details
in detail, the way people we know have wanted us
to do in the past, we would love it more than
anything else.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
That's for our second memoir.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Okay, So at the end of every episode, we thought
it would be fun to do something that we do
now that we never thought of doing because instead we
named these episodes number puns for some fucking reason. Now
we name them after something silly that was said in
the episode or something.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Yeah, no one wanted to do the number pun work anymore.
After after I think twentyng.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
Time longer than it should have.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
It went on forever, and I just want to say,
I don't think it was my idea because it's puns.

Speaker 4 (01:02:34):
That's true. It probably wasn't, but you were there with
me while we were making them up for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Look, I signed on just saying we tried. But on
our main show, at the end of every record, our
producer Alejandra reads us a list of phrases that we
said that could be funny, that could serve as the
show's title. So we thought it would be fun if
Alejandra read us some suggestions of what the title could

(01:03:01):
be if we were doing the new version of title
right now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Like, what currently would we name this if it wasn't
the stupid fucking number pun.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Well, don on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
What would we think if it wasn't the number pun
So Alahandra, let us know the weird shit we've said
through this episode.

Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
All right, here we go cozy and comfy Georgia. When
you were just laying down on your couch ready swirling
a brandy, Karen also getting comfy. I love this topic
and that's why we're friends. And that's just you guys
talking about true crimeas top shoulder grab moment when you
both read the party talking about the staircase and Owl

(01:03:38):
did it. That's exactly right?

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
Is that the first time we said it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Oh my god?

Speaker 5 (01:03:44):
And then Collusion on the Rocks.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
That's the one.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
See but every one of us starts fucking busting up laughing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
That's the title.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
We're gonna skip exactly, that's exactly right and go to
Collusion on the rocks.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
Collusion on the rocks, that's what this episode will be called.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Right, it's a good one. Yeah, yeah, let's do with that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Well, thanks for rewinding with us, you guys. Hopefully some
new people have come and done a little. This is
like a flight of a podcast for giving your taste
test of all the different flavors that are in this podcast. Yeah,
there's many more flavors. You can go listen to the
full episode.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Yeah, trust us when we tell you that if you
listen to this episode and then you listen to the
most current episode, you won't be lost.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
Yeah, And although the sound is a little better, but
it's about it. It's a lot better.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
And if you're if you think that the phrases that
we've come up with, like you're in a cult, call
your dad. If you don't know the source of that, therefore,
that's going to create confusion for you. It's absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
I don't even remember why I said it. I think
it was something about.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Yeah it was Johnstown, and I always thought, like, I
remember it was Johnstown. Yeah, really, stay out of the forest.
That's another episode. I mean we just said, we just say,
we talk a lot of shit, that's the thing, and
so you you know, and then we didn't. I went
I don't know when we started saying our fucking sign off, but.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I think we said at the end of this that
we needed sign offs, and then we just made sit
up off the top of our heads.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Yeah, all right, well then should we button this up.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Let's do it. Thanks for listening to rewind.

Speaker 4 (01:05:17):
Yeah, we appreciate you guys. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Get bye bye

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Yeah yeah Elvis, do you want a cookie,