Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 12: Our Bodies, Our Twelves

It's time to Rewind with Karen & Georgia!

This week, K & G recap Episode 12 – Our Bodies, Our Twelves – and the cases that got them into true crime: the attempted murder of David Rothenberg and the murders of Diane Downs. Listen for all-new commentary, case updates and more!

Whether you've listened a thousand times or you're new to the show, join the conversation as we look back on our old episodes and discuss the life lessons we’ve learned along the way. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode!  

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My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories, and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921.

The Exactly Right podcast network provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics, including true crime, comedy, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This
is our new special episode where we come to you
on Wednesdays. We sneak up behind you and start whispering
in your ear to discuss our old episodes starting from
twenty sixteen. It's a recap of our own show.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
That's right on Rewind. We play the old episode, but
we also reflect on the past, let you know if
and when we messed up, and update you on developments
on the cases we covered.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
And today we're going all the way back to episode twelve.
We named it Our Bodies Are Twelves, which made me
laugh out loud. Just now, really, that's a real a plus.
It's from Wednesday, April thirteenth, sixteen, and the theme of
this episode we were still doing themes at the time,
is murders that kicked off our obsession with true crime.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
So good.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, I mean, it's the theme of the show. It is,
it's what we landed on.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
So go get your favorite intern, a crosswalk attendant and
maybe just also your dog and invite them to listen along,
because now we can all be Day one listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Okay, let's go to the intro of episode twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Our bodies are twelve yeay, name that tune? Do you
know that song?

Speaker 1 (01:35):
What's that? That's the beginning of a song. It's an
eighties it is I'll do it for okay. I'm doing
marching rhythm. See the arms, yeah, yee, Now what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Thorn in my side by their next nice stupid? Oh no,
everyone could see their marching. They would understand how someone
at home's yelling.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
There was someone that got it on the first note totally.
The reason I was doing that everybody is because Georgia
has gotten these beautiful mic covers.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
So now we can pop our.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Peas, we can pop any peas we please, hop our
ps and sing our song. Welcome to my Favorite Murder, the.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Most professional Murder podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Slash Sports announcing podcast, Slash Distant video game music and singing.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
It's gonna be This.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Is gonna It's gonna take the Internet by storm, this
new combination of entertainment.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Do you think they can hear the like the shooting
helicopter video game noise coming from the apartment downstairs.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
I don't know there is a video game being played
with that kind of really high pressure music and definitely
some version of murder happening in that it's.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
A wall shaking like war video game.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
One would think I would be rich enough to buy
a house. You will be, And yet very soon there
goes a motorcycle. There goes a fucking motorcycle. Is the
motorcycle in the video game? Or is that separate?

Speaker 2 (03:09):
That was separate? Okay, I mean I've learned to ignore it.
And then I realized that we're recording something, and it's like, oh,
that's embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
I think people like ambient sound. It makes it real.
They know we're real, We're street, We're real as fuck.
We're as fucking real as they get. Apartment complex the
realist where super real.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Let's talk about the woman who has found in a
dumps and a recycling bin. I mean, I get recycling
bin is better than a trash can, also idiotic. I
should have put her in a trash bin. I don't
know if I can. I don't know, uh if it is?
It better? Yeah, I mean it's like it's more organic.
I just feel bad this woman from Seattle, she has

(03:55):
three kids. She's just given dating another shot, just trying
to find someone who will love her and like her kids.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Are you trying to make me cry because I will stay.
That was my mom.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
And she goes out with this guy to a fucking
whatever the sports team is in Seattle game and Seahawks okay,
and then goes missing Mariners. There we go and then
gets fucking found. That's the worst. It's awful, heartbreaking. Do
you know if it was match dot com, don't Tinder,

(04:29):
I don't know what. I don't know what dating side
it was, but I know they've gone out a couple times,
so he wasn't like it wasn't like a warning like
don't go out with strangers. It was like she knew
this person. So it was Christian mingle shaded and like
they showed a photo of the guy and I would
never have guessed he was a psychopath.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
What is it about the Pacific Northwest? I mean, seriously,
this is like I always think of Twin Peaks, where
it's like the haunted forests, bad spirits emanating from an
ancient site and then going into downtown Seattle and just
fucking up lives.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
There's so much land in which to bury and hide people.
There's depression because the weather is so fucking dark, right, Like, yes,
everyone there has seasonal effective disorder all year round sort
of thing across. It's depression. It's called depression.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Everyone's got it, and it makes them serial kill No,
it's heavy.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
It's a I have to say.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
The couple times I've been to Seattle, I've had a
lovely time, and it's been in the summer.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
It's so beautiful. I can't stand it. But it's always
the it's like la.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
People go there in the summer and then they're like,
what are they saying about Seattle?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
And everyone's wrong? And then you leave. I have a
message for everyone in other parts of the country, Okay,
move to Los Angeles. It's sunny, literally, it's it's what
you make fun of. It's constantly sunny. There's no seasons,
which they're like, I love seasons, but you love it
until mid February. Yeah, and uh, it's kind of dirty.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, but in a way that makes you feel like
you're going to be okay.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
And would you rather get dismembered or just like get
a random bullet on the freeway in your head? I mean,
pick one, Karen, pick one right now? Yeah? Yeah, random bullet,
random bullet. Yeah. Although once you're dead, the dismemberment doesn't
affect you got it affects your family. Oh that's very true.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Also, stuffing someone into a garbage can of any kind
is such an aggressive act of there's so much hatred
in that act.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
And it's file it's amateur hour two because yeah, what
do you of course they're going to find.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
They're going to find that, which maybe he wanted that
to happen, so he got caught. I think they immediately
like just went on her computer.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
I think. So what I think happened is it wasn't
it wasn't premeditated. Oh you know what I mean, because
he snapped. Because if he if someone has that much
information about you on their computer and like match that
you were going out with that person that night and
you went missing from there, Yeah, something went wrong. Clearly
it's going to come straight back to you. Clearly you
have an anger issue and you snapped. Oh here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Fuck everyone, right, that's we should have said that right
at the beginning.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
This podcast should be called here's the thing, Fuck everyone,
here's the thing everyone.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Fuck everyone except for you guys, except thanks for listening.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Except for our twenty eight hundred plus members on our
Jesus Facebook group.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
It's grown like a wildfire and no one is a pervert.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's the best.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
So just the one that's the one guy is like
a pervert, right, yeah, exactly. They keep their PERVC perversey private,
their private.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Parts pervert like us. Everyone. The Facebook group is like
my my bloodline. I love it so much. People keep
like taking quotes from us and putting them in multiful settings.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Georgia keeps texting me the quotes that that play into
my ego where somebody puts somebody a quote of mine
from this podcast over a sun dial, which made it
look so regal. Yeah, and like it was like wisdom
from the Ages. Yeah, Like the font is beautiful. Yeah,
it's terrible. It's like papyrus, So.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
It looks real.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
People are just really hitting it out of the park
in terms of their participation. It makes us so excited. Yeah,
please go join the Facebook group.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, it's good times. I mean it doesn't do any
it does nothing for us. Would make it happy, Like
we're not gaining anything out of it.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
No, I don't think so, not yet anyway. I mean
we'll figure out a way to monetize.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
And hunt all of you down and make us buy
a thank you, buy a T shirt, but right now
we're just having fun.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
We actually are talking about getting T shirts made. So
this is this is going to be a real dividing
line that the hardcore people you will buy and wear
a T shirt that says my favorite murder on the
front of it, and then that's going to weed out
the week of the people who say, I don't know
if I can commit to public love of murder.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
And then the fucking hardcore people are going to come
to the live shows we.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Actually have, yes, because we're definitely talking about doing live
shows here in Los Angeles. Yeah, so we would love
to see you. If that's something you'd be interested in
participating in. It would love for you to come. Let
us on the Facebook group if you'd come. Yeah, we'll
make it worth your while.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I'm really excited about this this topic this episode. Yeah,
because I see you have usually you have this these
like this crazy serial killer notebook full of writing of
my seven writing. Yeah, I think we both and I
usually have a few pages printed up, but we both
have like only a little dialogue because our a little writing,

(09:34):
because the dialogue around it is going to be intense.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yes, because this week we decided to go the topic
is the one that started it all, and that is
somebody actually guessed this on the Twitter page.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I'm sorry, I can't remember. They don't want their names
known anyways.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
That's true, but he said it was a guy and
he said want it you got You guys should do that.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think maybe hearing us because we met something.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
About that last week.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
I don't even know if we did, because you texted
it to me randomly and that day he was like,
you guys should do the one that made you interested
in murder.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
It wasn't like we talked about it on in the
last episode. But maybe I could definitely be wrong.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
But memory is shit. I too.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
I have no idea, but it doesn't matter because that
was super esp on his part, because that we That's
what I texted to Georgia, and that is what we
were talking about this week, the serial killer or the
murder that kicked off our fascination with murder. It is rough,

(10:38):
like hearing that the way we discussed that victim that
got put in a trash can.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yes, yes, it is rough, and we've changed, thankfully.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
I mean that.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
I think it's a real reflection of two gals having
fun and thinking nobody else would ever hear this right,
And we were basically, you know, feeling around for like
what is this and what are we doing? And it
didn't take long, and it truly is thanks to the
audience and audience feedback where we started to really get

(11:10):
a sense of like, wait a second, people are listening
and this is uh, there's things that you can make
jokes about and things you can Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Absolutely, I'm glad we did that. And in this one
we read a letter from a listener correcting us for
exactly that sort of thing, so, you know.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Which I think is really that was a great lesson
because we were saying prostitute, that's all we were reading, yeah,
or seeing anywhere or hearing on true crime shows. And
then someone wrote in and said, hey, it would be
way better if you started saying sex workers.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, and it made complete sense.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, we did it.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
We did it.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
So let's see we get the classic. I guess this
is the first time I ever said here's the thing,
fuck everyone, which was like one of my favorite things
to say at the time in my life, you know,
thirty six years old and fucking hate and everything.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Sure, well, so it was a reaction to that horrible story.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, was sometimes I feel like we would find ourselves
in those moments of like, God, this is bad, and
then it just like, well, I guess we'll just try
to button it and move on.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Right. Let's see, Facebook has twenty eight hundred members. And
then we said that they're putting quotes and funny stuff
we say on back on cute backgrounds. And now we
know that that's called listener art. It's listener art, and
we have boxes and boxes of it here at the
studio and we are decorating the studio with them. So
if you have something you want to send to us,
feel free.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
I remember the very first listener art that I could.
I was so impressed by it, and it was George's
quote Live Laugh Learned to Levity, which and then it
was just put on the most gorgeous background, like some
said in the forest or something, and I was just like,
this is the shit.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Top notch, Yeah, top tier. So good.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Okay, So let's go back to episode twelve for Georgia's
story about the attempted murder of David Rothenberg, do you.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Want to go first? Do you want to go first?
Whatever you want? I think he went first last time. Okay,
but I might cry. Really, yeah, this one fucked me up.
Okay for life, Okay, I want me to go first. Yeah, okay,
this is Georgia, but can anyone tell her voices apart?
I don't know? And there's a list of the intense
list uh and the one who says we're like eight

(13:22):
minutes and you're like, this is Georgia, but if you
don't know. Oh. Someone was like, someone drew caricatures of
us on the Facebook group and they're like, I don't
know what Karen and Georgia look like, but in my mind,
this is what they look like. And we just look
like it was hilariously ridiculous. And someone was like, just
look at their in like, look at them, like google them.
They're both like public figures, which I was like so

(13:45):
charmed that someone just found it and doesn't even care
what we look like. Did I have curly hair? Just
by chance? We publicked a little bit like Kathy from
the part God Bless. I was like, hey, ma, and
I like, I feel in my mind I look like
a little more like Pat Banazar. But really the reality
is that fucking Kathy. Reality is always Kathy really is

(14:09):
act all right? So so the one that started off
for me is actually an attempted murder. Okay, but I
feel like it's the same thing because it was attempted.
It was like supposed to be murder, and it happened
in nineteen eighty three, and I hold on, okay, say
the name right now, you say it. This is one
two three day? Oh thank god? Is that is that yours? Yeah?

(14:35):
That's mine?

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Oh shit, Oh my god, and mine happening.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
In nineteen eighty three. Your face, I swear to god,
is an attempted to real Well, there was one. Oh no,
it's a mix. That's why I was like just staring at.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
You, like, holy shit, one of these days, one of
these days, we're going to get.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
The same one. Okay, sorry, but I think we should
like set like a rule that if we forget the
same one, like something crazy has to happen.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Is we we should have a third murder in an
envelope that we just have someone else randomly print up
and then we just had to read.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Wouldn't that be funny if we had like a random
murder that we don't even know.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Oh my god, that's fair. That that's very weird. That
was crazy.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Okay. So in nineteen eighty eighty three in Orange County,
which is where I'm from. So I was only like,
I was almost four at the time. So my parents
needed to stop watching the news because I fucking saw
this entire thing. And remember it from when I was three.
In nineteen eighty three, a six year old, you know,
so it's around my age, named David Rothenberg was brought

(15:35):
to a motel near Notsberry Farm, which is in Buena Park, California,
by his father, Charles Rothenberg, who was taking him his
parents had divorced. They he was taking him on authorized visit,
and that night David or Charles the father got in
a fight with the mom on the phone and said

(15:58):
to her, if I can't have him, nobody else can.
And then, and this has stuck with me since I
was four, he gave the dad gave David a sleeping pill.
Are you ready for this? Poured kerosene on his bed.
Oh I remember this story, Yeah, kissed him goodbye, and

(16:19):
struck a match. As he stood in the door, he
watched from its telephone booth across the street as the
fucking flank he said he was he was going to
kill himself too, but he was too much of a coward.
You fucking light your fucking child on fire, but you're
too much of a coward to kill yourself. No, you're
not a coward. You're assisiopath, a psychopath, piece of shit.

(16:43):
So thankfully a bunch of people in the motel dragged
him from the inferno. He said, I mean the pain
that this kid went through. He suffered third degree burns
over ninety percent of his body. It's not supposed to live.
If you see photos of him day, I don't want to.
I really don't want to say his new name. He
changed his name because you didn't want his dad's last name.
It feels a little like salacious. Yes, but you can

(17:06):
find him, and I remember seeing him in updates in
the newspaper throughout the years, especially because so the dad
was convicted of attempted murder, arson and other charges. Karen,
guess how many years he got? Oh god, is it
going to be something like six more than that? But

(17:28):
it's twill thirteen h So I remember in nineteen ninety,
I remember, I wrote, I distinctly remember the newspaper article
was that was a photo of the kid with like
who's you know a little older now looking behind his back,
and it's like, if this guy gets set free, he'll
always look behind his back and see if he's there.

(17:48):
And actually, the dad said, in nineteen ninety when he
was supposed to be lot out of jail, do I
deserve to be set free? And he said no, it's
an unforgivable act. He even knew that he should not
have fucking been sent free. And I remember, like, so
my parents divorced when I was five, and so my
dad got custody of us like every other weekend, and

(18:10):
I feel like it fucked up my relationship with my dad. Yeah,
because this you know, this guy could have been a
drug addicted, fucking crazy person already, but I wish my
dad isn't and wasn't. But in my mind it was
like just someone's dad, someone's daddy, yes, and he was
still able to do this to him. So it really

(18:31):
fucked me out for the rest of my life. Wow.
And actually, weirdly, David the kid, the person who became
a father figure to him, which is hilarious, is Michael
Jackson heard of their horrific circumstances surrounding David's accident and
reached out to him and they become life. They became

(18:52):
life on friends, which is like another so sad, it's.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Very well, it's sad, but it doesn't necessarily but I mean,
nothing happened. I don't think anything happened. I don't that's
so either.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
I don't think I think Michael Jackson was inappropriately comfortable,
but I don't think he was.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think he had an incorrect sense of what you
were supposed to do. Like, I think he had an
incorrect sense of himself, yes, and and of And I
think he wanted to be around children because he still
wanted to be a child.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I think he was protecting this kid who suddenly,
just like that got a lesson of what it's like
in the real world. Yeah, which is horrific and terrible.
And the person that you trust, you know, sets you
on fucking fire.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
I mean it's I feel like I know that story
because it's probably because of the Michael Jackson part, or
probably because it was like one of those stories. But like,
didn't didn't he go on to like speak at schools.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, he's like a well, yeah, he's a he's a
pretty he's a pretty big advocate. He does a lot
of advocacy yeah, you know, he's turned it into good.
He speaks out against child abuse and all these things,
and he's finally you know, when your body is burned
over ninety percent, you have chronic pain constantly, and he

(20:16):
found someone who was able to relieve that, and he's
like an advocate for that. And it's just so. But
his dad served less than seven years of that sentence.
Oh my god. Yeah, he settled in Oakland in nineteen ninety.
But then he was arrested that January and charged with
the attempted murder of a man and being a felon

(20:38):
in possession of a gun. So I don't know where
he is now, but I bet it's not in jail. Well,
oh god, Yeah, it fucked me up, the divorce thing
and the like my dad had us every other every
summer for a couple of weeks, and it would take
his places and it was very stressful for him. I
feel like it clouded my childhood a little bit, like

(21:00):
this was a thing that divorced parents. This is how
they reacted sometimes. Yeah, that that was even just a possibility, yes,
especially because it was, you know, twenty minutes from my home.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, well, it's uncomfortable enough and hard enough for little kids.
They don't understand why it's happening every day. It's like
the whole world changes, so why wouldn't that change too,
Like how can you feel safe?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, my mom is angry at my dad and this
is stressful for my dad, and so people react crazy
and it's unexpectable or unexpected, and you know, adults, adults
make it complicated and kids have an you know, have
an easy solution to everything.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm sorry. No, it's a terrible start in the
world of murder for you.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
That was a start, and then and then unsolved mysteries
was a thing. That's somehow my parents let me watch
What the fuck? Were you a latch key child as well?
Oh I was latchkey kid?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
You just do whatever you want when your latch key kid.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Nothing and we I mean, I talk about this all
the time, but like kids today and even young people
today don't understand how it was the wild West for
kids in the seventies and eighties. It was just like
nothing was nothing was thought of through a child's eyes.
Nobody was like, hey, maybe we should throw up a
warning before this show to be like, don't watch this

(22:25):
if you're old by yourself.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
I learned how glamorous being balimic was from Lifetime movies.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yes, you know that's right, then, Jennifer Jason Lee. Yeah,
believe me. A movie taught everyone how to do Bolivia.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
I learned that relationships had to be insane and rocky
from nine to two and zero, like they had to
be dramatic and fucked up and crazy. And then when
I was like twenty two, I was like, oh, wait
a minute, they can just be happy and it's fine,
Like I don't have to have like it might even
be better, like guitar riff in the background, only get
like when I'm mad at him, or like how Tory

(22:59):
Spelling's boyfriend didn't he beat her up? He push her
on fucking fly the stairs. Yeah, it doesn't have to
be that way, she turns out. You can just watch
TV and get high and like and really enjoy I
really like each other a lot and laugh and it's
cool and really laugh your asses off. Yeah, and make
each other cheese toast. It's the best part of relationship
to me is when someone makes you cheese posts.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I like it when people pick you up from places. Oh,
like when you get to go do your thing, but
then somebody comes and picks you up.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Do you know what happened the other night? I was
supposed to go to like a girls' night party at
this bar, and I was like, guys can come later,
but like, nd'a night'spend the whole day together and like
on the weekend. I have a hard time, like that's
what we do. Yeah, I'm a little codependent. Anyways, So
he drops me off at this bar's dive bar where

(23:46):
we're supposed to meet at five, and I'm two minutes
early because I'm Georgia and I'm fucking earlier to everything.
And I walk in and the light that the music
is incredibly loud and no one is there yet, and
I call him. He had driven away, and I was like,
come get me. Fuck this. You drove background and got
me and I took a nap and then we went
back to the party together when you guys were.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Allowed nice, I just couldn't. No, no, you don't, and
you don't have to. You get to do exactly what
you want. Any weird preconceived idea of how things are
supposed to be quote unquote right isn't the truth. And
you get to do what makes you comfortable and what
makes you happy and exactly the do things the way
you want to do them.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
If any teenager for listening right now, which what are
you doing? Please don't do that? You I promise you,
like your life gets awesome. Yes, because you get to
choose whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, although I think kids these days get to so
much more.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
That's like a revelation for us.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Probably most kids these days listening this would be like, uh,
how else would it be?

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, because you have connection to every human being in
the world.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah, the pre internet days were dark. My friends know,
they were real. They were super real, just like a.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Like you wouldn't be we wouldn't be as awesome. You
wouldn't be wearing all black right now, the bigger cheese.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
This is my weekend goth look casual goth. Well, unfortunately
we didn't have the same one. I feel like that
would be I kind of feel like it would be majestic.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
I feel like if we if we ever have the
same one, we have to like treat ourselves to like
an incredible dinner, Like it's like celebration.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's right of our minds melding.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
We'll go to if we ever have the same one.
We'll go to Musso and Franks and get fucking steaks. Oh, good, idea,
let's just do it anyway, sand.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Dabs, I don't even know it's it's like old fashioned food.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Let's do it anyways.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
We'll get roquefort dressing, sides and sides of roque dress.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
You know what I want scalloped potatoes.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yes, you know what I want. I want a dry martini.
I want five dry martini.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Girl olives or onions olives?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Can I just have that one night where it gets
to start drinking again. Listen, Let's let's have a how
about episode fifteen? This is episode eleven twelve twelve. Episode fifteen,
will celebrate by going to Musso and Franks. I love it,
the classic old school steakhouse here in Hollywood. I love it.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
I'm gonna wear a snood. I don't know what that is, Yes,
you do. It's the back hair net. Oh that holds
all your hair in one little pile. From the thirties forties.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
I want to say, I've got to wear one of
my vintage dresses, but they are so tight that I
can't eat anything, and I'm but I have multiple times,
ripped open the scene to the back of my dress
because of why don't you wear your vintage sweatshirt. I'm
gonna wear a vintage sweatshirt.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
I'm gonna wear my vintage cap jeans when I wear
my vintage seat pants.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Who not?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, really that case. I just remember it happened in
nineteen eighty three, so I was maybe three or four
years old, but there were a lot of updates in
the newspaper all the time about it. Yeah, and so
it just always stuck with me. And then my parents
divorced two years later, and I just, yeah, I always
thought about it. And my Marty is obviously not, you know,

(27:05):
a monster, but it did stick with me that that's
something that parents can do to their children, and it
just like changed my little tiny couple of years of life.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
On outlook, Yes, of course it did.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
And it feels like that's the reason we now have
those parental warnings on TV shows and stuff.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
It's like you sat down.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Somewhere and took got a big eye full of media
about this horrifying story that is not was not for
you to hear.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
About another child, and yeah, I mean it was awful,
all right. So some updates. In nineteen ninety six, David
legally changed his name to Dave Dave to free himself
of his father's last name in legacy, which is amazing.
Dave led a creative life, eventually becoming a conceptual artist,
a house music DJ, a music producer, rap musician, and

(27:53):
music video editor. He eventually moved to Las Vegas, and
in July of twenty eighteen, he passed away from completions
from pneumonia and he was only forty two years old.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I think that's incredible that he like went and lived
his dream and did the art and the like things that,
because it can be so healing when you actually go
do things like that and really express yourself through art.
And it just sounds like he found a spot. It's
just that is a silver lining for this horrible story.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
It is he definitely flourished. Dave's mother, Marie, ended up
marrying one of the police officers who had supervised the
fire investigation, and in nineteen eighty five she co wrote
a book entitled David, which was later adapted into a
made for TV film in which Bernardette Peters played the mother.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
I feel like I would remember that because I know
her so much, but I don't remember that now.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
And then David's father, Charles, he fucking got thirteen years
and he served seven for that crime. And he continued
to build up a serious criminal record, including charges of robbery,
and in two thousand and seven he was sentenced to
twenty five years to life under Californi his three strikes law,
and he's still there today.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, just a just a true crime. Everybody loses. This
is a horror show.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
What is going on? Totally story, and it's my hometown
and you know, like my first hometown day. Right, yeah,
all right, Well, let's hear Karen's equally awful story about
Diane Downs.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Karen, Georgia, Karen, here's my favorite murder from the from
the jump, I thought it was John Wayne Gacy because
I always talk about seeing that picture at a very
young age. I saw a graph of how he buried
the boy's bodies in his house, right, and it blew
my mind apart. But I realized before I saw that picture,

(29:48):
because then I was like, wait, maybe it was Ted Bundy.
But I realized the reason I read The Stranger Beside Me,
which was the annual book about her and Ted Bundy.
I had read Small Sacrifices, which is an an rule
book about this woman, Diane Down Down, And I will
now tell you the story of Diana. And this was

(30:08):
a This is a paperback book that I found on
my mom's night stand because my mom used to just
plow through any book. She would read almost a book
a day, any almost anything she liked kind of pulpy stuff.
And this one she I just started reading and she
didn't she didn't notice that I was reading a book
that I was probably twelve or so.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, but again in the eighties and nineties, like they
weren't as were they didn't understand what makes a crazy
anxiety written person, right, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yes, exactly, that this would in any way have like
long term effects on my brain. My parents were in
World War two, Like they didn't understand. Yeah, this wasn't
it was a book. It couldn't hurt you, It wasn't
a bomb, it wasn't an unexploited shell. Actually I must
have been fourteen, because this happened in nineteen eighty three,
and she went to went to court in nineteen eighty four,

(30:59):
so then the book was written. So but here's how
it starts. Read for my paper, my expertly typed paper.
So On May nineteenth, nineteen eighty three, in Springfield, Oregon,
twenty seven year old divorcee and male woman, Diane downs.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Again Pacific Northwest, Pacific Northwest.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
She went sightseeing with her three young sleeping children at
ten o'clock at a night, on.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
A school night. I know you know this one.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
She was listening to Hungry Like the Wolf when she
turned down the road she'd never been on before.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
She said that she saw oh because.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
They were exploring, that they liked exploring, and there she
saw a shaggy haired man who flagged down her car, so,
she said she pulled over and turned off the ignition
and asked him what he wanted. He said he was
going to take the car, and he pulled her. He
opened the door, pulled her out of the car, reached
in and shot all three of her children at close range.

(31:57):
She says that she then faked throwing the car keys
in the field across the road, and when he turned
to look where the keys went, she jumped back into
the car.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
He shot her in the left.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Arm, and then she sped away to the nearest hospital
and at the hospital, her seven year old daughter Cheryl
was pronounced dead, her three year old son Danny was
found to be paralyzed from the waist down, and her
eight year old daughter Christy had lost so much blood
that she had had a stroke.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Oh my fuck, yank God, real quick, I just want
to get that out of the way.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Okay, Okay, So almost immediately the cops smell a rat.
Sure because of the story. I just told you. That's
her official statement.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Jesus. They were sightseeing at ten o'clock at night.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
She said, as you do, as you do with your
three children, one of whom is toddler, who doesn't even
know what's sight seeing it. So they're like, huh, interesting,
And they then notice that she, in telling this story
is completely emotionless. The cop who I watched on an

(33:04):
old twenty twenty said, not one tear did I see
as she.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Was telling the story. So she's explaining how her children
are shot point blank ranged by it. But she could
be in shock because they say, now, like, don't judge
someone's reaction because you just never know how they're gonna absolutely, however.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
The night of true, but that it is going to
raise the alarm bells in a cop where if you're
either not crying or fake crime.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Then when they brought her in to see Christy, when
she had woken up from her like which she was
conscious again when they got her going there were there's
a detective and then two doctors in the room with her.
When they brought Diane in her they said her eyes
glazed over with fear and her heart rates that was

(33:54):
on the heart monitor went from one hundred and four
to one hundred.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
And sixty four. Holy shio.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
So everybody was like, uh oh, because like this is
she's this is a little girl surrounded by strangers and
her mother, the one person who is supposed to give
her comfort terror in the world comes in.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
She's terrified.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
So that's alarm bell number three. Then then they find
out that almost immediately after arriving at the hospital and
her children being wheeled in to the er, Diane made
a call to a guy named Robert Nickerbocker, who was
a married man and a former colleague of hers that she'd.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Had in fair with in Arizona.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Made a phone call there, and they also noticed that
even though none of the children had been given any
first did of any kind, Diane had a dish towel
wrapped neatly around her.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Gunshot won good to know.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
So these are things everybody's dinging off one by one
and going, ah, this is all of this seems weird?

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Is that shitty for me to say that? In I'm
surprised that in nineteen eighty three these things dinged because
I I feel like a lot of show up past people.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Oh I think, yes, I think because it was still
the early days of this kind of crime being like,
because there was no you know, forensic files and you
didn't see this all the time and hear that same
story of like but then the cops.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
So it was like smart cops and smart doctors.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yes, And I think it's when three little kids get
killed or you know, one gets murdered and two are
horribly injured, everybody's on high alert and paying as close attention.
There's less of lackadaisical feel as opposed to our usual

(35:40):
oh they ran away bullshit. But yes, definitely these cops
on this case were on it. And this one cop
that talked the most in this twenty twenty special, which
you can see if you go on YouTube or whatever,
it was his first homicide case. So I think that's
probably another like poised. Yeah, he wasn't jaded. He wasn't like, oh,

(36:01):
this old thing, you know. He was like there, he
wasn't to figure it out.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Thinking about all the paperwork that needed to be done.
He was like, yeah, that's pay attention. He's like, what
the hell happened?

Speaker 1 (36:11):
And they say that the the phrasing here is shaggy
haired man. But that's not the that's not exactly the
wording she used. That's actually a police term for that
fake person that people who kill people and then blame
it on a random person who came in. They call
that the shaggy haired man. Wow. So she but she
actually said and she described it, and you can see,

(36:32):
like the police sketch, it's it is a shaggy haired man.
It's like some man who some like drifter, kind of
a drifter or that no mother in the world would
ever pull her car over for on an empty country road,
much less turn the car off. That's the craziest part
to me.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Why did she add that in because it wasn't necessary.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
No, because she's a bad liar and she's one of
these psychopaths who thinks that she's the master party.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yes, and that's really the funniest to me because they're
the most obvious liars.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yes, well, because they don't know how dumb they really are.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
I really love watching uh interrogations when you know someone
is good, like when you're not you're like not guessing,
you actually know they're guilty. Yeah, And the lying they do.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
And how loud lying sounds. Yeah, it's just so blatantly obvious.
And I love when the cops play along, yes, and
they like sympathize so with her, this is what I love.
They these cops decided to let her talk. She started
talking to the press almost immediately, and because of course,

(37:41):
they were like, we've got to find the shaggy haired man.
So she was giving these interviews and the more she
did it, the more she loved it, and they called
her she looked a little bit like Lady Diana, so
they would call her Lady Die and she kept on
giving interviews. Well, four days after her daughter Cheryl is
pronounced dead, she's doing a reenact meant for the news,
and you can watch this all this, all this stuff

(38:04):
is on YouTube. She is laughing and joking along with
this reporter re enacting the murder of her children, but
literally like, oh my god, I just hit my cast,
like like she looks like a flirty high school girl.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Can you explain my face right now?

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Georgia's all of her orifices are open as wide as.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Oh my gas, Jesus charrig this is an X rated podcast.
How dare you? But no, no, it's crazy. It's so unnerving.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
And then you and also you see these the interviews
that she talks more and more as each one goes by,
So the one that they end up having to hold
because the reporter knew if they released it before her
trial that there's no way she would get a fair
trial in Oregon. In this one, she's quoted as saying,
and this it kind of made me sick, Like I

(38:52):
had to turn it off and turn it back on
a couple times. Because this woman is overtly crazy. She
has the hallmark of crazy, in my opinion, which is
anyone who's plucked their eyebrows down to just like two
little lines.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
He always to me, that's like.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Either you're on speed, you're on some kind of white drug,
or you're just totally crazy. I love it because she's
it looks like two upside down yous over each of
her eyes.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
And it's like it's like one eyebrow connected to the
next eyebrow connection, like one hair.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yes, exactly, like she just left on the bare minimum
of eyebrow. That's always a very bad sign. So she's
getting interviewed and the reporter asks her, do you feel
lucky that you only got shot in the arm in
this terrible crime? And she says, my children are My
children are the ones who are lucky. I'm the one

(39:43):
that has to live with this pain and scarring for
the rest of my life.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
What a fucking cunt.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
And in the same interview they catch her. You see
her as she talks. She can't help she smiles at
the end early sentence, she giggles a little bit, What
an idiot, And at the during one point, it's almost
like it's almost like her brain doesn't know what the
correct face is supposed to be for this situation.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Because she's in a not like what was that? Yeah, she's
a narcissist. Yes, oh that's the thing I was watching.
I write a thing recently about sociopaths, and you can
tell them because when you yawn, you know, normally when
I yawn, you'll yawn to yes, when iye, yawn. They
don't yawn because they have no empathy, because they don't
catch the yawn because they don't they they don't feel. Yeah,

(40:30):
they don't have anything. She's like, didn't She doesn't understand
that facial expressions.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Read yes, and she doesn't know to mask. She is
enjoying being the center of attention and she doesn't know
to mask that joy. While she's talking about the blood
coming out of her daughter's mouth.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
It's like one of the creepiest I want to call
it Munchausen biproxy, but it's not because she I mean, like,
shooting someone is so aggressive.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, No, Munchausen's is more. You're getting the sympathy from people.
This is a person who thought she was going to
get away with a triple murder of child.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
What happened? So I'm scared.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
So as So, basically she keeps doing these interviews and
now everyone around is seeing that this woman is not
the victim of a random crime on a country road
like she initially said. Everyone in like nearby is like,
oh my god, there's something wrong with her. And so
then as all that's happening and she's she's doing it

(41:35):
like she was volunteering for these interviews. The police are
still investigating. They find her secret diary and that's where
they find all the information about that guy, Robert Nickerbocker,
and her obsession with him, and how she basically wanted
to kill his wife while when she still lived in Arizona,
and that this guy had no interest in children, thought
it was inappropriate to be around her when she was

(41:57):
with her children, and so clearly the motive was on
the page. She killed her children so she could.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Be with him, right, listen, don't have a secret diary
unless you're going to kill someone. Like it's the only
people have secret diaries are going to fucking kill someone. Yes,
that's just evidence waiting waiting to be found. Just think
about it. So her thoughts, don't write them down.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
So then then a guy comes forward that says, because
her story was she race to the er after this happened.
A guy comes forward and says, I drove behind She
had a red Nissan. I drove behind a red Nissan
that was going so slowly that my spinnometer needle wasn't
coming off the peg. He said, she was probably going

(42:37):
seven miles an hour and he had to pass her.
Came up behind her going so slow, had to pass her,
and her story was she was racing there. She actually
drove so slowly to ensure her children would bleed out
because she could hear them moaning, I'm going to throw up.
It's fun. So she was arrested February twenty eighth, nineteen

(42:57):
eighty four, like nine months later. And then during her trial,
her daughter, Christie, the one who got scared when she
came in the room, had recovered enough, and Christie testified
against her own mother and told everybody there was no
man in the street. My mom shot all of us
through crying, you know, tears and everything. Testified against her
own fucking mother. But here's the sweet part. Please, Well,

(43:22):
there is a couple. First of all, she was convicted.
She got sentenced to life in prison plus fifty years,
so she's never getting out good. But she did get
pregnant before the trial, so she was pregnant during the trial.
A guy that she seduced on her male route, so
she knew she was going to get arrested, so she

(43:42):
she slept with this guy and got pregnant. And then
so that she could garner her sympathy and look like
I would never do this. Look, and I'm such a
loving mother.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
I think you also get put in a better prison
if you're pregnant. Yeah, you get treated way better.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Right. So, uh So, here's the this is the quote
that she had about being pregnant. I got pregnant because
I miss Christie and I miss Danny and I miss
Cheryl so much. You can't replace children, but you can
replace the effect that they give you. And they give
me love, they give me satisfaction, they give me stability,

(44:16):
they give me a reason to live and a reason
to be happy.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
You fucking cut you fucking shot your children. Huh.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
And now she's gonna make more So that child was
immediately taken away from her and put up for adoption,
and that girl never knew who her mother was until
like recently, Wait, that's me, what if it's me? And
then here's the beautiful part. The prosecuting attorney that sent
her away adopted both Christie and Danny. His name is Danny, right, Yes,

(44:45):
adopted them, both him and his wife. They're legally now
their parents.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
And I don't cry, have no feelings in my heart,
and I love that to fucking cry because I'm not
beautiful so happy. Yeah, because they need so much, Yes,
needs so much.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
And that prosecutor from uh he he was the first
one who was like, you need to get a therapist
with Christy and have a therapist with her all the
time because at some point she's gonna need to start
talking about this and someone needs to be there and
be ready, dude. And so she just had like constant
support and she like, they did it. They did right

(45:23):
by these kids one time in one of these horrible stories,
these kids, I mean got done right by.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Even if they hadn't been shot. They they got a
better life than they would have had. Oh yeah, yeah,
apparently she was a horrible They a psychiatrist said she
was a narcissist, a sociopath.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
And a hysteric. Wow, so she must have been a
nightmare mother. Like the kids said, she hit them all
the time.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
She's someone who in the eighteen hundreds would have been
like a good mother, you know, even like a Brooklyn
in the fucking eighteen hundreds. What I'm like, Well, she
keeps our kids in line, you know, and like would
have never would have never gone to try that's her.
She would have had like a funny name, like a
you know bully Betty, Yeah, exactly, would have never oh,

(46:14):
missus slappy. So that's the first one that affected you.
That was the first that I read that story.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
I can still remember the feeling of reading it and
being and the whole description of her turning around in
the car and shooting the children and just being like
it was basically I had an equal opposite thing of
like I realized this was a possibility, but I didn't
ever have to consider although my mom did own the book,
so clearly she was interested in this situation, She's like

(46:41):
learning about it. She might have been doing research, but
it was just that thing of like that adults just
not to trust adults.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
These are very hard lessons we both learned, and I
wonder if they they've taught us what we what we
started a podcast about, which is anything can fucking happen anytime,
and you need to be on guard for it at
all times.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
And don't try and don't don't take things for granted
or like judge books by covers, and don't do the
things that that average people get tricked by. Because this woman,
it was like she looked like lady die and she
was like, I would never hurt my children, and everyone's like, okay.
And if she herself had stopped doing interviews at that point,

(47:30):
it may I mean, who knows. They would have had
to prove everything else by evidence.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
I think it's funny that, like my story is a
dad story, in yours is a mom's story. And what
it is is that anyone is capable of anything, anyone
could be blind to you at all times.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Also, it's we picked the worst dad and the worst mom.
It was kind of of all time.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, but these are the things we remember as children.
This is what you and I remember as children. Yeah, yeah,
Jude Kindred fucking spirits. Okay, we're bad. Any any updates, Karen.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
So? Now, Diane Downs is in her late sixties. She's
still incarcerated at Chowchilla, which is here in California. She's
been denied parole multiple times, most recently in twenty twenty. Okay,
to wrap this up, let's listen to the outro of
Our Bodies, Our twelfth.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
You know what's funny is so I wrote before we
pore came over, I wrote, like on the Facebook page,
like you know, I always write like we're about to record.
Here's the topic. Comment with your story yeah, which I
think is like so smart. Yes, it is really smarter
of you, Georgia. I yeah, thus smerdis But some people

(48:57):
wrote things and I was like quickly looking over them,
and one of them is yours is Diane Downs. Diane
Downs is fucking in there. Yay? Should I read a couple? Yes? Please?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
People's yes, and thank you for the people who are
now running the Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Aren't there?

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Didn't you say there's two people who are what do
you call it? Yeah, we have a couple moderators. Moderators
that's the word. Can you hear me burping?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Or is that like I didn't hear it because I
think whip your head back, you think within your head
and then you realize it's just it's going straight into
my phone. Sometimes you just don't even know, and like
that's life. I'm gonna read you a couple Okay, just
made me want to die, but we're just I'm gonna
keep going. So someone wrote just want chicken soup right now?
Mm hmm. I'm like a fucking do you think it

(49:47):
was your burp? No? No, I'm like a bloodhound working
fucking smell shit. Really Okay, someone says, Zodiac my mother
had a book about him, and I snuck up. I
snuck it at age ten to read it. Oh, so
that's I think that's what happens. Yes, I did too.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Oh I just got a whi of the Chicken too, Yes,
I do, because it smells really good.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
And my mom took away my brother's copy of The Outsiders,
which made me want to read it even more. Oh,
I loved the Outside Yes, Betty, Betty Broderick hometown murder
all over the news when I was ten or eleven.
My dad's boss's daughter was murdered when I was around fifteen.
Oh no, that started it all. Yeah, Diane down Yep,

(50:30):
she shot her three kids, and still to this day
will and try to say a man on the road
shot them, and there were six replies saying, yes, this
is the one. Yes, I read this book and I
haven't seen the movie, but I think about it all
the time. Oh that's right.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Farah Fawcet stars in the Lifetime movie shut Up. Yeah,
and Ryan O'Neill brilliant.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Not actually a movie, but the a murder, but the
spontaneous human combustion episode of unsolved murdering unsolved murders. And
then she said actually actual murder, probably at Game ed
gaan at game. That's a classic.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, but I remember that episode of Unsolved, is it
Unsolved Mysteries, because it's the picture they show is just
this lady's legs.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yes, that's the only thing left sticking out of the
chair that she could And it's amazing. So you actually
look into spontaneous human combustion, it's actually really interesting that,
like there might just be a friction of things in
your pocket. Yeah, that lit on fire.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
And but you're so gassy and fatty that you're basically
a human candle.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah. I don't know. I think you mean me specifically,
you know, but I can shake the walls my farts
any who. Someone wrote read Helter Skelter in seventh grade
nineteen eighty two, girl Unsolved Mystery in general was my
gateway drug. And someone said, uh, let's see, yes that number.

(51:52):
The Son of Sam got obsessed after the crazy John
like Wasama movie about it, which just shows how young people.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Are summer damn Like, Yeah, that I was, And I
was on a seed speed when that movie came out,
and I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Watch John was Ama too. He was real in mine.
Someone said, watching Silent witness with my mom. Which one
was that?

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Was that the silent witness?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Someone said, uh, the you know the Kara Homolko and
Paul Bernardo that we've talked about before. Let's see here
the West the West Memphis three. Yeah, when I was
in fourth grade, my friend's dad perhaps foolishly let us
front of HS of Paradise Lost Party.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Oh Nonny, just too young, honey, No, oh my lord
me me.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
That is like I'm going to step on the stop button.
Let's see here, the Clutter family, the from the in
cold Blood. Yeah, that's heavy, of course, son of sam.
My mom was a pretty girl in the seventies in
New York. And this person says New York in the
seventies was an awful sounding and scary place while also

(53:05):
being fascinating. Yeah. Like I would go back in time
and go there. Yeah, but you'd need like an armored car, yeah,
or to be like a punk rocker. Yeah. Someone says,
I just remember stumbling across the date line one night
when I was in high school. Fuck yeah, dude. Lizzie
Borden Manson Zodiac. Another Lizzie Bordon Jonestown, West Memphis three,

(53:31):
Helter Skelter helter skelter, that's how you say it in Yiddish.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
All classics, all good kickoffs, and not a lot of
Ted Bundy's. I thought there would be many more. Yeah,
I guess he's a bit old, would be for this group.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
There are some more and rules, like she's just like
rules she enrolled.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
She was the greatest, and those books, she just wrote
books that were so easy to read.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
They were easy like Stephen King books like this is
intent and complicated, but I don't feel stupid.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
And also she would She's made single like one off
murders interesting, which I never was interested in, but like,
you know, we're getting behind the mentality of a person
who like killed their wife or whatever.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
I need to go back and reread a couple of
those because like in my mind now I'm too sophisticated
and I don't care, and I don't want to know
about Ted Bundy anymore, and I know everything, but like,
if she's such a great writer, then I should just
be able to go through it.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Yes. Well, and also her Ted Bundy That's a Stranger
Beside Me is great because it's her first person.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Account of working with Ted Bund. How stoked is she
that that happened to her though, Like she's a little
stoked for real.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
And she's also she is in if you look up
Dying Downs, she's interviewed in that twenty twenty. No, she's
still alive back then, she's since past. She's the best
interviewer because she's like someone's sassy mom. Can we do
a book club and like read one of them? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Together? Like, well we haven't read before. Okay, I'm actually
really interested in the Lacey Peterson case. You're not.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
No, that was in your It was in Modesto, which
is very it's in the East Valley basically Central Valley,
East Bay.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Like, there's no way he didn't do it right. Oh,
you a hundred percent in it? I know. It's so
it's so gross. This is a new Simpsons.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
It's Oh and how many people I loved how many
people wrote to us because they're going to do a true,
a true version, not a not a not like OJ
but a real version of John Benet. And we had
maybe ten different people going, you, guys, have you seen
this which is Super Bowl?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Karen? Yes, it really Like I know we said this before,
but we need to watch this together, like we need
have special episodes. Yes, that you can. We'll just we'll
all watch it together. We'll all watch it together.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
That's actually a great idea because you know, our friend
Joe Rosa and Pat Walsh, they have a horror movie
podcast where they watched the movie and talk during it.
And it's so hilarious because you can watch the movie yourself,
but then you can watch it with people. It's as
if you have two friends that are dominating the conversation.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
We watch. Wrestling does that too, but they were, well,
watch like the watch WrestleMania four and just fucking talk
about it and there's like silent moments in it. And
it's fine because we're all watching it together. Yeah, I mean,
but you and I won't shut up. Look at I
will be able to. Yeah, I'll be talking a lot.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
I edit that out. What that we're gonna get high? Well,
we could do whatever we want. The only way I
yell at television is what come high? And it's pretty
I remember because I watched the Oscars with you, one
of the greatest.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Oh it's funny screaming. Wait, we do have a I
have a corrections corner moment.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Oh right, because one a couple people wrote this and
I was so embarrassed, but it also made me laugh,
like cry laugh. I do not think that Manitoba is
a city in Canada.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
I know I said it. The way I said it
made it sound like that.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Although I can't claim to inherently know the geography of Canada,
I do.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
No one said that, did they.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
It was the way I said it because I said
the bus went from Brandon to Manitoba. It's like saying
it's goes from Las Vegas to California. Calm down, well,
but just so people know. But I mean, at the
same time, if it's written in Wikipedia, I'm reading it
to you and I'm not going to double check anything.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Listen, this is not We're clearly the most researched podcast.
Manitoba is a province and I know that. Okay, Right
now I am looking up the word whore in ore
my favorite murder Gmail cool because I needed to find
the email that said notes and resources about sex workers

(57:47):
in episode ten. Oh so, someone named Sam wanted us
to know that I know that neither of you are
involved in sex work. Thanks Sam, you don't know that,
So I figured I would just let you in on
a few things. First off, a lot of sex workers
and people in the quote adult industries take a lot
of justified offense at the word prostitute, which is another

(58:07):
way of saying whore, which obviously doesn't fly. Some prefer
to be called escorts, but over calling people involved with
sex workers is really the right option, which I did feel.
There were some people pointing out that we were like,
kind of rude. I was kind of rude about sex work,
and I want to clear it up. So this person said,

(58:30):
the way the quote work is highlighted that it's a
job that should be considered as normal as being a
paralegal or construction worker. Furthermore, most cops really don't give
a fuck about sex workers in any capacity. This extends
to people in porn as well. That is why safety
and clarity and communication and a level of protection are

(58:51):
inseparable and sex work, and why hearing about a male
porn actor raping and harassing female co stars is just
as if not more jarring, than hearing about another piece
of trash. Sarah Killer that said, there are really good
resources out there for people in sex work that offer
help and advice for awful situations that may arise. I
highly recommend SWOPUSA dot org and Sexworkersproject dot org for

(59:15):
anyone in sex work. I just wanted to clear that up.
But like I said something about like how no one
chooses to be a prostitute. Yeah, and I understand that
it is so much bigger than that, and I felt
I feel bad for saying that.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Well, And I like the fact that we have listeners
that then send us information like constructive information, because it's
very true and we are and we've said in a
million times, but to people having conversations about something that
we're interested in, we definitely make mistakes constantly, and so
anytime you hear any of that, especially if it's something

(59:53):
that you take offense to or that you think needs
we need education on, we are happy and open to
hear about it because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Especially because nothing terrible has happened to us, either either
of us, Like it's not we're we're saying this from experience.
We haven't had our fucking sister or a cousin or
whoever get murdered, So we're a little more flippant about
it than we would be if these things could happen
to us, right exactly, and we don't. We we just
don't have the interest of the of we have just

(01:00:22):
the interest from distance, and that's the reason that we
can take take the take that we have. But we
also in no way want to offend people or or
and we certainly aren't judging anybody at all, and we
absolutely would never judge a victim of any crime. And
this guy made a good point, which is, like, you
guys have we have a we have a platform that

(01:00:42):
we can announce these things, and so we're lucky and
we should do it. And I totally agree. And I
don't want to seem flippant about sex work being like
a lark, you know, or like like not a big
deal or not a choice, which is choice, and it
doesn't mean that you're a bad per or no, not
at all.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
And if you get yourself into a situation, it's great
that I mean that that's a beautiful way to end
that email, which is here's some constructive like a direction
someone can go if they want to go in that direction.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Totally, so they do have options. I agree. Very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Yeah, I feel like this was a more serious episode
of my favorite murder. It's got personal well because it
was kind of about us. It was about us a
little bit. I mean, these These are the things that
fucked us up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Start. These are the reasons this podcast exists.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
I have to say it definitely fucked me up, but
it also I got I was also thrilled to understand.
I feel like I was. I was raised very I
kept away from like the realities of life. Both of
my parents were like blue collar workers. My dad's a

(01:01:56):
fireman and my mom's a nurse, so they saw a
lot of the bad stuff of life, and they wanted
to keep my sister and eye so far away from it.
And it drove me crazy because I think I always
had the sense of, like, there's more going on than
they're telling me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
So every time I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Would find an and rule book or I would read
an article or whatever, I felt like I was getting
one more piece of like what's really going on. And
I think that that's that's another way to look at it,
and maybe a good way to look at it too.
It's just like, as we said a million times, it's
almost like the more information you have and the more
you know, the better off you are.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Like the adult we are as I think children especially
understand that the adult world is something we don't we
don't totally get and we're always like as children are
trying to understand it, and so we know someone's hiding
something from us, and we know like when something happens,
our parents react to it and we can sense it. Yeah,

(01:02:49):
we want to know. Like you and I are curious
fucking people. Some people aren't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
I think the people who are into into murder and
into true crime are curious fucking people who want to
know the dark side, even if they know that it's
going to ruin them a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Yeah, because but it's almost like the option. It's like
better that than not knowing. And some people are like
I just don't want to know, which completely makes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
But I've never been that person. I've always talked to
my therapist like how great it would be just to
be like a fucking I going to be a I
want to just live my life in suburbia and be
unaware of all the awful things that can happen. And
I wish, I really truly wish. I want it to
be that way, but you don't. But I'm so fucking
happy I'm not me too, because then we get to

(01:03:37):
do this. Yeah, we're dark and it's okay. Hi, Hey Karen, Hey,
Well this has been episode twelve of my favorite murder.
Thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Uh, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Please do that, you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
That helps us a lot, and we're doing so crazy great.
Our numbers are huge and it's because of you guys,
So thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Totally go to paralel audio dot com and buy your
Amazon shit from from there and listen to other podcasts
and and and what you love us, and of course,
don't forget to stay sexy, stay sexy, and don't get murdered. Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
I think in this episode, if if I'm not mistaken,
we start talking about starting an and Rule Book club.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Definitely gave that up immediately.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
I mean, it's I think we should do it. I
think I think that sounds super fun. And also, you know,
the The and Rule people just sent us a big
box of her book.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
They did. I took one that I hadn't read, so
did I. Oh my god, we should Maybe we'll just
do any and Rule book that you haven't read we
should all read.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah, okay, but we have to figure more structure out
for it. So it's actually a club like when do
you drink the wine? When do you stop talking about
the book and start gossiping about.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
The people that you work with. What's the level of
cheese we're talking about here? It's hybri hi hybri hybrie.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Always it's like, what do we what will we do?

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Like on the main episode, there's a part where we
just stopped the main episode and then it's like sounds
like a cocktail.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Party in the background, and we're like, it's book.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Club time, dingd, So what did everyone think?

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
And then we just have a blank like seventeen minutes.
So that's where you can say your response. It's interactive.
It's the first interactive podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Holy shit, I love it. And we'll just go mm
hmmm a couple times throughout Wow, interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Take, I'll go, No, I can fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Is there any more white wine?

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
I need to leave this room spiritually.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
We also, I guess, first figured out about each other
that we were both latchkey kids. Oh yeah, which was
interesting that like maybe that's why we like knew each
other when we met each other, like bonded.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
It was like, we're so trauma bonded. It's insane, it's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
We had all the things.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Okay, yeah, just on either side of the state.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
So, uh, just remind everyone, and I bet you those
Day one listeners heard this in the rewind. But Georgia
for the first time says, here's the thing, fuck everyone
in this episode, and so of course that's become that's
become one of our what is it called a slogan?
A what is it?

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Yeah, a saying.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Saying most popular on merch too. People fucking love it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
It's the best.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
You guys love wearing shirts with the effort on it.
Crazy kids, it's fun, you punk rockers. So we're gonna
re release our old school here's the thing fuck everyone
designed that everyone loves. Go to My Favorite Murder dot
com to check it out. So we'll have like a shirt.
I think there's other stuff. Yeah, check it out. Yeah
on My Favorite Murder they're already there's already been. It's

(01:06:38):
not a true re release, but it's like kind of
here's what we did the first time. Yeah, and it's
fucking cute. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Oh so, I mean it's hard to beat our original title. Yeah,
it's really a good title, but there it's just the
fun of what could it have been doing that the
way we do it, which is it's something we say
within the spa.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
What was the bullshit spoken? Well, here's the thing, of course,
could have been one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Yeah, oh, I said to Georgia, were you a latch
key child as well?

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
And then I lost my mind sides and sides what
we'd order at Musso and Frank when we you know something?

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
I think I said, she and ruled, which is very catchy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
She did and this is our super Bowl? Yeah, the
John in a Ramsay documentary coming out is our super Bowl.
I stand by that. I still agree.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
I think also that saying that kind of joke that
you made was like the lightning point of people being like,
that's right, that's it, Like we do this and we
have this, and we should be able to join together, right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
And I'm supposed to understand the super Bowl, but I
don't and I don't care. And I think that you
guys all go and crazy about your super actual super
Bowl is a little silly, right, And I'm not interested
in anything but the snacks and the beer, and so
that's ours. And you can't make fun of us either.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Right, And you actually might even have to come and
be a drag along and start getting interested in what
your lady likes that's right, or your beloved significant other,
whoever it is.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
You're man, You have.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
To watch the documentary. We will bring snacks, we will provide.

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Snacks, and we can all wear jerseys.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Are my favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Murder two shirts are our jerseys. That's right, that's right.
We've done it all for you. We've actually structured how
you can be a fan, and we're working on the
details of how to be the best kind of fans always.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
That's all we've ever done. Is you know how detail
oriented we are?

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Oh my god, just organized. We have Excel spreadsheets. You
have to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Thanks for listening to another episode of rewind. This is
so fun. Really, we're just gonna keep doing this if
you guys are into it, and you seem to be,
and we appreciate that so much.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
It gets easier every week because the show gets better
every week and so we don't have as much to
cringe about and be worried about. But thanks for always
being there and stay sexy and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Don't get murdered. Good by Elvis. Do you want a
cookie