Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 39: Kind of Loco - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. It's Wednesday,
and that means that we're recapping one of our old
shows with all new commentary and updates and insight. Today
we're recapping episode thirty nine, which we named kind of Loco.
Join us as we journey back to October nineteenth, twenty sixteen,
the date of the final presidential debate between Donald Trump

(00:37):
and Hillary Clinton. Crying emoji, crying emoji. Let's listen to
the intro of episode thirty nine. Are you ready to
make some magic? Do you know magic? Yeah? I know
up close magic. I can't do distance magic though. Sorry. Hello,

(00:59):
welcome to my FA Murder. I'm Karen Kilgarath, I'm Georgia
hard Stark and together were Karen. Yes, playing a lot? Yes,
how's it going? Hey it's good, Harry go We're we're

(01:19):
at a different speed this week. Somebody wrote us on
Twitter and said that on the last episode we seemed hysterical,
which I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
I think we were slightly hysterical. We were just like
we were just like ramped up one notch.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah. It was like powering through it, like I need
to get through this. But it was fun. We had
a great time. That's all the matters. Yeah, we enjoyed ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
I mean, who wants to roll boring pod like murder
comedy podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:47):
I mean, yeah, I don't think. I don't think most people.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
If you've come here for a narrative true crime podcast,
that then just add adderall and that's what you fucking have.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's like, it's like that similar. Yeah, we're actually on
uh physician's grade cocaine. Now that's that's the secret to
this pot. I wonder what that's like. It's pretty great
if you had a chance. Never mind, if I could
do a drug again.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, but like but like if someone was like, this
is this physician's grade, like government, whatever the fuck drug?

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Would you do it? Which drug? Like coke? Let's say, sure,
well I can't. You mean like if if I didn't
have any of my I have all kinds of neurological
disorders because I did all that. Don't drugs, kids, it's
not worth it. It's totally only because of that, you
wouldn't have the theory. They can't you know, having epilepsy
or seizure disorder. They don't know why exactly unless they

(02:45):
look at your brain, like dropped on your head. Close up,
I was dropped. Shut my head. Buck up. I didn't
tell you that. I think you probably did. I did.
My mom tripped over my high chair when I was
six months old. I don't think I knew this. Yeah,
and she broke. We both fell and I hit my
head and had to get stitches. I still have a tiny,
tiny scar. But I'm totally the serial killer, as we

(03:08):
have discussed in this podcast, because I had that I'm
gonna have to kill you before you kill me. Okay,
that makes sense, right, I think that'd be a great
way to go. Just do it. Creep up behind me
as a favor. Oh yeah, but no stabbing, slicing. Please,
Julian meet a dead. I know you love cooking. I

(03:28):
love cooking. I'm going to Julian you and it lights.
I'll put you in a queens in art. I'm the
serve you. Yeah, uh yeah. Don't do drugs. You guys,
don't do drugs. We did them for you. We can
come back and tell you. Yep, it's not what it's
cut out to be. It's like how my dad used
to say he would never get cable. We lived way
out in the country, so we only had four channels,

(03:50):
and he wouldn't get cable. He'd go, hey, we have
that in the firehouse. It's no good. You'd like, let
us try. We'll decide if we like it or not
decided for you. Yeah, it's protected you guys from so much,
and yet and yet it didn't. Are sorry hit the fuck?
Oh wait, okay, what was I gonna? Yeah, don't do drugs.

(04:10):
I know we're gonna get some email.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Of some mommy, Like I listen with my twelve year
old girl on and you're you're telling her to do drugs.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Oh guess what, mom, don't listen with your twelve year old.
I won't even have it. I listen with my twelve
year old. This is a comedy murder podcast. It is
highly inappropriate that anybody would be listening at that point.
That's how I k new. Mommy, Yes, like, don't come
at us, mommy. And then like that night she goes

(04:35):
to bed and then it looks in the doorway and
there's a glint of silver. Who's that one of you? Up? Yeah,
I'm a mommy.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Hi on angel desk, good like government quality angel desks.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Because we would you wouldn't let us warn your children
off of Angel you stop, you press stop at the
point we were talking about doing drugs and didn't listen
to the rest of the podcast where we said we said,
don't drugs.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Under any circumstances ever do No, I mean we did.
We did them and look at us now, Oh fucking god.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I look like I'm about sixty two. Yeah, unsuccessful, but
but nos. I just had a couple thank yous for
from the Twitter page. Oh I love it because people
send us amazing great stuff.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Best can I do someone of Instagram? Then sure, you're
Twitter and I'm Instagram. Nope, only me, only Twitter? You
absolutely can.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
We love it. We just had Courtney sent us pictures
of her. She didn't name the person in the picture
with her, but it was a picture of the two
of them. They had carved pump. I have it and
do you have the name of the girl?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Because they both posted it, and I was like, I'm
going to give them both a shout out because what
this is an.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Instagram area and I've overstepped. No, but they tweeted it.
Then you retweet it, yes, but there was no names. Okay, Well, anyway,
have they carved? Stay sexy? Don't get murdered and you're
in a cult. Call your dad into pumpkins, which must
have taken hours.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, I can't carve a fucking pumpkin line that.
Every time I try to cover pumpkin it's disappointing.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
And you cut your hand and you get that group
in it, and halfway through you're like, what tho? I
don't give a shit, And then you just eat these
pumpkin seeds and triangle for an eye? Fine, you know
what he is. He's cyclops, you know what? One triangle
eye and one too? Boom done? Can I have my
mother glass of wine? Please? And I don't want to
eat these fucking disgusting pump you know, Oh, let's cook
them up. No, I'm not in second grade. I'm not

(06:24):
falling for pumpkin seeds ever mentioned an hour? But I don't. Okay,
but they're sweet, baby angel. It was Courtney at Coffin Bugs.
Is her Twitter hands? Okay?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, then the other girl is wandering Lamb on Instagram?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Sweet? It could be the same girl, right, might very well,
but either way they're friends and I think they're both
tagged in the Instagram. Okay, good if her name is
on Twitter coffin bugs and then on Instagram wandering Lamb
that girl contains multitudes absolitively God bless her soul. But
then David, whose Twitter handle is Hello dab Wood, which

(06:59):
is kind of like dag would with but with a
b asm boy, made an anime a gift of us
driving a car. I'm driving, You've got el of asud
on your lap. There's a lightning storm in this car,
and then when the lightning hits there's a murderer in
the backseat.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
But it is so charming and well done and like adorable, beautiful.
You show us tune you got here because I didn't know,
because I don't because Twitter overwhelms me, and like it's
the best thing I've ever seen, isn't it the best?

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah? I think Instagram for me.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
I think that if you want to see the cool
shit that people make for our show, which is a
fucking ton of stuff Instagram dot com, slash my Favorite
murder or just my favoritemar Instagram. I just I'm constantly
posting stuff on that because of other people's stuff.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, shill, but it's very cool. It's just it's crazy
and fun and fun, and so we're so talented, and
I love all those artists that are like I was
listening to you and I started sketching this thing and
then it turns into this beautiful.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, and then people are like, I want this as
a shirt, and then they go make money.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm like, go make fucking money. I know, it's so cool.
Another murdering knows by it. I'm so happy for them.
Just one last one, which was Alison. Her Twitter handles
turbot Alley, and she had been listening to an old
episode and reminded everybody, please clean out your lint trap
in your dress please. And it makes me happy that
she tweeted it, but I want to remind people as well,

(08:21):
worry about your homes burning down a lot, because that's
my personal neurosis. Well, your father was a spiderman, an
equally neurotic fireman who would yell at us if there
was even a hint of lint in the lint trap,
So I shouldn't say it to you.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
That reminds me, yes, that there is this thing on
Alice Alissa is that who this she is? It might
be the same girl Alyssa on our Facebook group made
something called Karen Georgia and Karen's rules for how to
stay sexy and not get murdered or not be a
murderer or murder suspect. Her name is Joanna Groom.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
I think it's her website. Oh, but there's a couple
of This is a running list that I will continue
to add to as G and K continue to preach.
Number one, if you came here to learn, you're in
the wrong place, that's right. Number two, Guys, if you
ever find something, say something, or you look fucking suspicious,
your parents won't get mad at you for being on
someone's land if you find a skull. Number three, if

(09:20):
you find a body, you should tell someone, that's true.
Number four guys, do not sell your government secrets. And
it goes on and on for like fucking It's not like,
oh my god, it's like one hundred and twenty nine
at this Jesus Christ. I want to give out the
the website, but I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Well, it's on the Facebook page, right, I'll put it
on the Facebook page. Yeah, cool, So it's my hilariously
MFM podcast is the Facebook page. Thank you Joanna for
keeping that list. It's fucking great. I love it. That's hilarious.
What do you got corner? Do you have? I have?

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh my god, I got recognized corner, oh, which is
always fun.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
This is separate from San Francisco. Yeah, but the girl
messaged me on Instagram. It was her.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Oh nice, and it was like her she had just
gotten engaged and she saw me and she was so excited.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Oh I know, Grata. That's a good omen. Yeah, seeing
me or getting engaged, her seeing you right when she
got engaged.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, that's exciting. That movie she won't get murdered by
her future husband.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well, you never know. You don't ever know. Oh. So
I was walking out of a juice place in Los Felis.
Girl just goes my favorite murder, which I totally get.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Because, like you see someone, you're like, I just have
to say the thing that I know you from immediately,
because I didn't stop and like say it, you know, right,
And I was like, yeah, you like held the juices
over my head in Triumph and I was like thank
you because it was the first time I got recognized,
like in my neighborhood, you know, And yeah, that's crazy
cool hipster girl, like we all are around here, and.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I love that. Well, I have one. April and I
were eating in the diner we always eat at.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
April Richard sent everyone's favorite adorable.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
From Go Bayside podcast and stand up comedy, And you
were eating in a diner in a diner as we do,
and a girl walked by outside and then walked in,
pulled out her earbuds and just said, I just want
to let you know I love your podcast. I think
she may have said, I'm listening to it right now.
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
That's always been like a dream of walking by someone
who's podcast I'm listening to it.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Wouldn't that be the weirdest feeling? Yes, world, But I
might be just saying that because that would be a
really good part of a s I feel like she did,
Let's go it. But anyway, that was kind of exciting.
And then she left and April goes, this is like
a hard day's night. I was like, it's really not.
It's exactly like that.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's totally just getting chased through the street by one
person who politely.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Came into quietly and then immediately loved as we sat
at a table eating salad. Fun times. Thanks for your
support and love you guys. It really means a lot
to us.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
This is weird and fun and we love it and
oh my god, I can't believe it. Really that was
freak out corner. Yeah, there's so many corners. There's like
too many coren. I don't think that equals actual room. No, No,
it's it's a mansion of corners. Did you want to
talk about last week when I had to drop in
the correctness? What if I did it again? Because it's

(12:11):
now changed again?

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Do it? Please help us? My favorite mode? So I'm
listening to my own podcast, quality control, man. I mean
we can say that, or we could call it ego
non control whatever to quality control. I enjoy listening back
because when we do it oftentimes it's just a ploor
and then I go, oh, we did say that's funny? Yeah?
Or or do the thing where you picture someone like

(12:33):
that you like listening to the podcast, this is what
I sound like. That's when I stop listening because then
I'm like, oh no, you know what I keep doing
is what the fuck is round with my laugh? Next week, Georgia,
control your laugh. It's like goofy and fucking don't you dare.
The worst thing in the world you could do is
change or control your laugh. I learned that in stand
up comedy, because in comedy standing in the back, you're

(12:56):
always trying to get people to know you're laughing at
their joke. But if you I to have, like say,
a feminine laugh or you whatever, just be just in
that one arena. Let yourself be authentic and don't worry
about what people think, because it's the most natural response
that you can have. Yeah, and you should let it
come out, even if it's a big snorting goose laugh

(13:21):
that in that fucking vain Can I tell you I
meant something to you? This is gonna get sad. Yeah, okay,
I'm a scream sneezer.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
I didn't know. I didn't fucking know. I did until
this weekend. In past episodes, if you're fucking if you're new, Hi,
Hi welcome.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
We've talked about scream sneezers before. Yeah, that's a real
problem with them. I do too, but apparently it overcame you. No,
I do it all the time, and I never realized it.
And I asked Vince and he was, I'm like, am
I a scream sneezer?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Because you knows we've talked about it, and he was like, Noah, Like,
and I.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Vince the best husband in the world, such a sweet angel,
So I wouldn't call it screaming. It's the same thing
when I asked, do I snore? Oh?

Speaker 2 (14:05):
No, you you're cute, you know, like, Oh, wouldn't I
saw it? Yes, Yeah, I scream sneeze.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
I mean listen as long as it's okay that I
get mad. Oh, I don't care, because scream seat sneezing
legitimately scares me terrifying. My mom does it too. Yeah,
Like I had a roommate that all of a sudden
it would just be like the weirdest thing in the
world that you can ever be prepared for.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
No, all right, well maybe I just maybe maybe we
now know that scream sneezers don't know that they're scream sneezing.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
It's true, and also that they can't control it. There
we did get a tweet from somebody who was like,
some people can't control it, and she was clearly very hurt.
I'm sorry if you were hurt. I'm a person of
very strong opinions, but I also go back on those opinions.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yeah, oftentimes it's fun to it's fun to have it's
fun to be very adamant about things that you really
don't give a shit about on Yeah really, I mean
it's like, by way of a podcast.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
We're trying to make the time go by before we die.
Entertainment people, this is what it's about. This is it?
Oh you know what I was gonna say, which we
don't do this that often when it's like an off
topic thing. But I just want to say. Our friends
Pat Walsh and Joe DeRosa have a podcast called We'll
See You in Hell that I listen to all the

(15:14):
time and never plug or give a shout out to me.
I don't know you. It's really funny. If you like
two dudes that fight about like movies, those are the
two most there. If you like people who will argue
anything even you know, like either side those dudes. I
can't believe they're friends. I know, it's great. It's you
watch their friendship kind of deteriorate and build back up

(15:35):
every episode.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
But they're both softies so that they like then feel bad.
They're fucking hilarious, both of them.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
And it's fun because if you can either watch the
movie along with them. In the beginning, they used to
watch the movie and discuss it as it went, and
then you could watch it along with them. Yeah, it's
always like a like a B horror movie, right. Uh yeah,
I think they've they kind of opened it up, so
it's kind of like whatever movies they want now, but
now they just kind of discuss them. But anyway, it's

(16:02):
totally worth your time if you are into horror movies,
regular movies, or just taking our recommendation. And they're both
fucking hilarious, hilarious comedy writers people friends. We like them, Yeah, comedians,
good stuff. They've never murdered anyone as far as we know.
I just had that realization I was listening to their
podcast over the weekend. I was like, I genuinely like this,

(16:23):
I should at least say that that's really nice of you.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
I think that we should recommend a Friends podcast every episode.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah it might be good, or just things that we
actually are watching, like Pole Dark, like what remember? So
I said to Georgia, A lot of people have asked us,
are we going to talk about Amanda Knox special, which
you wrote about right for Elle magazine? Yeah? Online, So
if you haven't read Georgia's column about it for Elle Magazine,

(16:49):
look that up because Georgia does her whole summation. I
didn't watch it because Georgia told me she didn't like it,
and so I was like, well, if she didn't like it,
I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, you needed to And I'm
not interested in that case because it's a one off.
Did she didn't? She pretty girl? There's all kinds of

(17:09):
elements that I don't enjoy.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Well, you know what the biggest element is is that
the victim really has nothing to do with the whole story.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
And yeah, I don't like completely forgotten.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, I found like her foot her crime scene photo
with her foot sticking out of the blanket got more
airtime than her face did.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
And it's just like, I just don't like those stories, right, Yeah,
and fil probably feels unsatisfying.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, And I mean, even though it sucks the Javane
Ramsey story, at least it's called the Javane Ramsy it's
not called the Patsy and John Ramsey story. It's like
about her, yeah, but this is about it's called Amana Knox.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
You know. Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, And so
George just wrote back. I texted and said, do you
want me to watch it so we can have a
discussion about it, and Georgia basically said I didn't like it,
and then I went, well, if you didn't like it,
I'm not gonna like it, and immediately tried to get
out of my homework. And then I said no, no, go ahead,
I said just watch a British procedural and so I
immediately downloaded submission one and two of Pole Dark. If

(18:08):
you low l E p O L d A r K.
That's his last name, Ross Pole Dark. If you like
bodice rippers combined with a mining the politics of living
in a mining town.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Oh that's my that's my favorite topic.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
I mean, who wouldn't right there on the coast of England. Yeah,
get that's what I majored in. Get in there, go
to college. Someone's going to write and be like they're
in Wales or whatever. I don't fucking know. It was
one big green mountain and I loved it. I watched
every episode. Oh I like that. I'm never gonna watch it. Perfect. Congratulations,

(18:46):
All right, we're back, Hi you guys, we're back. This
was I must I think I was a couple drinks
in on this one. I mean perhaps, but whatever better
than ater all. I would love a poll of how
many podcasters aren't drum as they do. They're always on
chat shows. Great to know, kind unnecessary, I think, just
for like the chitty chattiness of it. Ah, I'm not

(19:08):
a social butterfly. Well. And also there is a reason,
and I don't know what it is, and I wonder
if you do that. They were saying that we were
hysterical on the episode before. I know, I didn't notice.
We were just excited. Maybe that moon was in a
place that makes you hysterical hysterical, I don't know what
it is. I mean, I guess, I guess. I'm trying

(19:28):
to get us to talk about other people's opinions. It's
not our opinion. If they're right, they're right. I'm not
going to argue it's from twenty sixteen. I will say this,
at this time, I used to go to Georgia's house.
It would be like seven thirty at night, and I
would drink her leftover coffee from that morning I forgot,
and I would take a cup of her old coffee
sitting in the coffee pot, and I'd throw it in

(19:50):
the microwave and I drank my nighttime coffee as you
drank your nighttime bev and we got through that episode.
Could have just been an imbalanced caffeine yeah, or I
had caffeine at night, which is always a bad idea
for a way. Yeah, the historical significance of this episode as
we first start talking about scream sneezing, Yeah, and I

(20:11):
don't think there's been a sneeze that's gone by since
there that I didn't think about that, and you bringing
that up in this episode, so it's kind of like
become embedded. You admit you are one. I know, and
I didn't realize it. Also, when anyone else does it now,
I'm like, shit, there's oh my god, Like when Vince
does it sometimes you know, which you should. It's like
the release of it. It's what it's kind of all about.

(20:33):
I'm a screamy honor. I know that for sure. Yeah,
It's it's the thing. I feel like, maybe it's easier
to not be those things if you just scream all
the time. It's just be a scream person, keep that
volume up. Just be a screamer. We always tell you guys,
oh did you see that thing about that some girl
wrote up those rules. But Elson can't find them. It's
such a bummer because they're good. Yeah, guys, can you

(20:56):
find them? Or are you that girl? Please repost them?
We want to see the rules. Alyssa might not be
into this podcast anymore, so maybe she was deleted her
list of rules. But if that's not the case, anything's possible.
In nine years, she found out that we didn't vote
for Trump, and she's like, she's like, forget it, and
by my research is over all right. Well, this is
a freaking heavy episode god with a lot of big

(21:19):
hitters and eyeball talk. Georgia is about to do her story,
but it's back in twenty sixteen about Charles Albright. This
is one of the worst the Texas eyeball killer.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Shoe a murder time, let's murder it up. I'm excited
about mine. Mine is usually three or four pages. Yeah,
this one's six. I'm not gonna go I'm not gonna
take up all the time. But there's just so much information.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Do you want to jump right in? Yeah? Can I
go first? Do it? I think I'm first this time? Yeah?
All right, and it's very important whether or not yes
we know who's otherwise would just get so much hate mail.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, it's not true either. All right, hmmm, Karen, I
mentioned it last week. Are you ready for the Texas
Eyeball Killer?

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Oh that's right. Oh yes I am. Are you sure?
I really am? Okay, I've got my protective eyewear on. Yeah,
if people have. I was thinking about how a lot
of people have eyeball like issues issues. Yeah, they're gross.
The eyeballs are gross, and attacking eyeballs are gross. Attacking
eyeballs is fucked. Yeah, like what is wrong with you? Yeah,
don't worry.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I don't get too into like the gory eyeball details.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
But there's a couple of things. And he's called the
fucking Texas eyeball Killer. So he did some some stuff
that we need to really look into. Yes, okay, are
you ready for it? I think I am. Here we go. So.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
On December thirteenth, nineteen ninety in oak in the Oak
Cliff neighborhood of Dallas, Texas, the body of Mary Lou
Pratt was found. She was a thirty three year old
well known prostitute in the area. I don't know what
well known means. It's like that everyone hangs out friends
with her. Yeah, oh, sex, I think we're supposed to say, yeah,

(23:02):
sex worker. She was last seen in mid December on
a Dallas street corner trying to pick up clients, and
her body was found at four twenty in the morning
on a Dallas street, just on a street, laying face
up for land a bron T shirt on.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
I saw the crime scene photo. I'm sure it was
pulled up. I mean, yeah, it's very bad news.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
She'd been shot in the back of the head with
a forty four caliber gun. So the medical examiner said
that the killer had removed both of her eyes and
taken them with him.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Oh, I thought she hadn't done that. Yeah, man, let's
see here. And it was.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
They removed post mortem with such precision that there was
no damage to the upper or lower lid. And then
it goes on to explain like the intricacies of removing
an eyeball and all the like things, which I won't
get into. But it's like comp it's not like bluck,
you don't pluck.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
No. No, my mom used to work in the ophthalmology
RD no. So I've not in any way say because
of that I know anything about removing us So you
do it all the time, then, but I think I've
seen that poster of the medical post more than I
would have liked to write, like what connects this to that?

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, well he did that all without like fucking any
of that up. That's okay, So clearly he has an
understanding of medical.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
This is it's very Jack the rippery.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yes it's But in nineteen ninety yeah, she also had
blunt force injuries. But the cause of death was a
gunshot one. So then in February, on February tenth, nineteen
ninety one, so just a couple months later, in South Dallas,
outside the semi city limits, Susan Peterson, who is also
a sex worker, was found dead. So she was found

(24:52):
dead shot three times and twice in the head and
once in her boob breast I think I'm supposed to say.
And she also had her eyes removed. And what's weird
is that he the person closed the lids after he
did it too, so they wasn't They weren't found to
have their eyes missing until they got their autopsies.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
It's all intentional, and it's all tricky and creepy, like
what would you what do you think your motive would
be to take eyes? It's like seriously. Yeah, because it's
not gouging out, like, don't look, no savvy staff. Yeah,
it's removal, like I'll as if it's evidence, like taking
them Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
So two months later after Susan Peterson was found, the
body of a twenty seven year old woman was found
in the same area. Oh wait, no, this is Susan Peterson.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
She was found at seven forty five am, and she
worked in the same neighborhood as the first woman, and
she was lasting walking the streets looking for clients. Found
laying face up with only a shirt on pulled up
over her breasts. The same emo, same exact way to
the woman.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
So then a month after the second victim was found,
on March eighteenth, nineteen ninety one, Shirley Williams, who was
a forty two year old woman working as a part
time sex worker in Dallas, was found dead and she
was completely nude. She had facial bruises and a broken
nose and had been shot in the face through the
top of the head. Steven, are you gonna vomit? You're

(26:22):
kind of like, oh, you're kind of You're moving in
a way.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
That's I bolls freaked me out.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Too, do they do you want to go sit in
the other room. Okay, okay, let me know if you
needed some air. You look, I kind of saw you
weaving in the background.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Like.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
No.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
She had superficial injuries around the eyes and face and
part of an exact a knife blade was found in
one of the wounds.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
But sorry, I wound. No, no, no, no, no, okay, okay, okay,
fucking god. Oh so she was stabbed hard enough that
it broke off. We broke off? No, yeah, I think
he stabbed her and it broke off. Yeah, that's not good.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Both her eyes had been removed. So then a pair
of patrol officers cut to this. After the first three
women had been found, two cops remembered an incident from
a few months prior. There was a woman named Veronica Rodriguez,
also a sex worker, and she claimed she had been attacked.

(27:21):
And she claimed she had been taken into the woods
and raped, then ran to a friend's house and he
rescued her.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
So the rescuer was a guy who was.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
A truck driver named Axton Schindler, and he said he
was only giving her a ride, didn't know anything about
the attack or the injuries. Super shady and weird. But
the police questioned him and his address was ten thirty
five El Dorado Street, so they wondered if the attacker

(27:57):
was the Eyeball Killer, and they decided to requestion Schindler
to find out if he had seen something. He was
a weirdo himself. He collected trash and stuff, so they
discovered that ten thirty five El Dorado wasn't actually his address.
He'd put a fake address on the license out of paranoia,
but the property belonged to someone named Fred Albright, but

(28:18):
he was dead. So a couple months go by they're
trying to figure out who this fucking killer is, and
then a deputy overhears them talking about this whole situation
of Schindler and Albright, and he remembers a phone call
weeks before with a woman who said that she was
friends with one of the victims of the Eyeball Killer.
So she had been friends with Mary Lou Pratt, the

(28:41):
first victim, and she said that the victim had once
dated a man named Charles Albright and the reason that
stuck out to her was that he had a weird
obsession with eyes and kept exact o knife blades and
his addicts.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
In his what addict addict? I always say addict, but
you mean the room above your house attic? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't know why I do that, Okay, So I
just want to make you to know you're addict.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
That's what I fucking kept it in his addict his
friend who was an addict, should you hold these for me?

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Hey man?

Speaker 2 (29:14):
He did him and I got some real good government coke.
So Charles, this fucking addict dude was the son of
the guy who owned that home. Okay, So Fred Albright's
son and he had inherited that location.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
So let's talk about Charles Albright.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
He was born in Amarillo, Texas, and he was adopted
from an orphanage by Dell and Fred Albright. His mother
was kind of loco. Loco, can we get that out?
Who the fuck am I kind of crazy? Loco?

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Never said that. We were just trying to change it
up a little. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
His adoptive mom was a school teacher and she was
super strict and overprotected.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
She unperprotective.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
She like made him study a lot, and he he
ended up skipping two grades because he was so fucking smart.
And she pampered him like crazy. She kept goats in
the backyard so he could drink goat's milk, which said
she said it was better for him than cow's milk.
She occasionally put him in little girl's dresses and gave
him a doll to hold. She would change his clothes

(30:19):
a couple times a day to keep dirt off of him.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
So loco, she was loco, she was straight up yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
And she was afraid that he might touch dog feces
and get polio, so she took him to the hospital
to see the polio patients locked in a huge iron line.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
That doesn't keep you from touch No, and.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Dog pieces isn't where you fucking get polio. Bro, it's
the air, like it's just the air.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
You know. That's so awful? Can you admit? But this
is the thing my brain always flashes. You Can you
imagine a parent today taking their child to winning wording, yeah, exactly,
don't touch the stove. Look at all these people who
have been have third degree burned.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
However, I think my aunt once I my cousin he
was little, lit the fucking kitchen on fire because he
was doing that thing with matches where you flick them
after you light them.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Yes, lit the whole kitchen on fire. This is in
the seventies, so he was not being watched and it
was his fault for playing with matches, not their fault
for not leaving them around or believing them or smoking
twenty four hours a day, right, And I think that
they took him to the burn ward to be like,
this is what fucking happens when you play with matches,
And how was he after that?

Speaker 2 (31:25):
He's fine now, he's kind of he was kind of
mean to me when when we were.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Little, kind of statistic to mean, uh before after the
burn woard visit after Yeah, so he's still working some
stuff out. Yeah, but he's like fine now. I mean,
I think you need to trust your children better that
you don't have to traumatize them to get the lesson
through their through their heads. I think you should teach
them not to fucking play with fire to begin with.
I mean, I just remember when I lit the bed

(31:51):
on fire. My mom screams were enough to keep me
from ever doing it again. Yeah, that's the secret, because
she looked at me like, what the hell is wrong
with you? And then I was like, I I don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
You have no, you have an excuse for being like
I hate when you do something You're like, this is
something a stupid person would do.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, I have no like, am I a stupid person?
My thing was like, can you please just pay attention
to me, like I just I'm really fun? Yeah, I
think of great stuff. Get off the phone, Get off
the mother fucking fun. Hang up that long courted? What
was it fucking Marygold? Or was this? Yes it was
Mary Gold, I swear.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
To God, because that's the entire seventies was married.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
It really was. So she would take him to.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
The polio to look at the polio patients, and those
are polio patients.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
They're like, fuck, you don't use me an example. I
don't touch dog shit. The idea, yeah, really I never touched.
Don't put that on me. The idea of being in
an iron lung where just your head is sticking. It
was such a goddamn nightmare for months. Horrible, Oh this
poor babies.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, and then she said to him, you can spend
the rest of your life here.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
She would tell him.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
But she was It's from what I read, she was
very protective and loving of him in a way because
she wanted him to know that she was never going
to abandon him and that she loved.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Him like it doesn't seem like she wrong. I know.
I don't think she was abusive, but his intentions were good. Yeah,
she was overbearing and didn't really understand how to parent. Yeah,
she was letting her neuroses take priority over his will being.
And it sounds like she had a lot of neuroses
aside from what she did to her kid. But she
doesn't sound like a bad person. She just wasn't she

(33:24):
was scared. I think she had a little bit of
a mental illness. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Oh well, However, the next line says when he was
less than a year old, she put him in a
dark room as punishment for chewing on her tape measure. Man, Elvis,
choose on my tape measure all the time.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Uh no, no dark rooms for baby.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
We agreed that in twenty seventeen. You know what's scary
when you're a kid, the dark room. You're not scared
in your adult a dark room sound to do it?
And then when you know it's scary, I just said
it was twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
You know it's scarier. I didn't even fucking notice, is it. Yeah?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Let's let's hold this episode until twenty seven days, so
we sound normal.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
This one goes in the vault like Disney style. I
keep I keep reading more awful stuff that makes me
take back everything I just said.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
When he wouldn't take a nap, she would.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Tie him to the bed. She was abusive. When he
wouldn't drink his milk, she would spank him. She would
make him drink goat's milk. Have you I've never read
a goat smelk. Oh no.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
And I'd like to take an aside right now and
say that everyone listening, spanking is abused.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Don't fucking spank your kids. Oh man, baron. That's why
I don't have kids. And I know then the problem
never even comes up. Wait should I shouldn't? I? Nope,
I should go to the movies by myself. That's what
I should do.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
You know what's great is being an aunt and getting
to go away after that's right, and then they have
to take care of you when you're old.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's what I figured out recently. It's pretty right. Oh.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
And then she lectured him about the way his father,
the father acted greedy with set.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Whenever as a child.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
She told him that whenever the dad saw her in
the bedroom in her bra and underwear, he tried to
grab her. She was going to have none of that,
and she was going to make sure that Charlie never
tried anything like that with his friends. His girlfriends either
oh and he were older. She'd chauffeured them every time
they went on a date. She would call the girl's

(35:23):
parents let them know that her son would not do
anything untoured lady.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
But that was the fifties too, so I don't know. Like,
so she was on pills, she was on vacuum pills.
I thought she had an amazing cut, an amazing figure,
like because she just didn't. She wore four girdles, and
she was super high on speech. She ate a triangle
toast every morning with it and a tomato. It's a
cud of tomato, cuta cheese, tomato and cottage cheese. I mean, okay,

(35:51):
says so much about life.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
So for some reason, he got his first gun as
a teenager and he'd kills small animals with it, but
his mom would help him stuff them. Due to his
interest in becoming a taxidermist, this guy had no chance. No,
he got super into fucking taxidermy. But his mom was
super cheap and weird and like wouldn't spend any money
on anything. So instead of spending the money on the

(36:14):
glass eyes that one would buy for taxidermy birds and
squirrels and shit, she was like, we don't need to
do that, So instead they would get two dark buttons,
and so people come over and look at their taxidermy
and it'd be this. It's like that movie coral Coraline.
So I wonder who the eyeball killer is?

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Right now? Are we gonna go ahead and make a guest?
I mean, this is like all arrows pointing to was
his name, Dan. It's his name Dan.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
No, it's Charles Albright, Charles jack check, Danny Albright.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
We'll call it Chuck. Danny. You never had a goddamn
chan poor baby.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
But it seemed like he so all of these like
Wikipedia articles and these other things just make him seem
like a crazy, you know, like a gross drifter like killer.
But this other article I read it was just like
he was. He was very, very fucking intelligent, but at
age thirteen, he was he's a petty theft whatever.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Agree with Saults. He graduated from high school at age
fifteen because he was so fucking smart. And then he
went to the North Texas University. He wanted to train
as a medical doctor and a surgeon. He wanted to
train as a surgeon. Yeah, yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
At sixteen, the police caught him with some stolen petty cash.
He spent a year in jail at sixteen, and then
he went back to school, majored in pre med studies,
but was found with stolen items again and is expelled
but not prosecuted.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
So he had he had a compulsion control problem. What's
that's called compulsion control? I made it up.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
That's what it's called from now on, I think, so
impulse control. Impulse control, yea dig it. So he got
kicked out at school. So he did what everyone else
would do, which is that he gave himself a fictitious
bachelor's and master's degree.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
He forged himself a problem solved. I mean, he knows
everything anyway, That's what I mean. It sounds like it. Yeah,
he's like, so it turns out I'm an eye doctor. Yep,
here you go, here's my forde shit. But he had
like done it by breaking into like the fucking head
of the college's office and like using the rite, typewriter
and everything. So it all looked. Oh that's like he

(38:24):
was very got a master's and forgery. I mean, if
you at that point you can do that, you deserve it. Yeah,
you deserve something, you know, Yeah, thank you. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Society, man, yeah, man, college. I think I have a
thing against college because I never went, and I hate
you college. Okay, me too.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
But somehow he married his college girlfriend. I don't know. Man,
some women just fucking well, come on, danger chuck danger.
Yeah you can't hear that shit.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
She's bored of all these dumb college students at Arkansas
State Teachers College.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
She's like yon o'clock. Yes, he's dangerous, dangerous, he's not grabby. Yeah,
he's not afraid of the dark anymore. I don't grab
her when she's in her underwear on broa. He loves buttons.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Great, he's got a master's and he's got a master's
and a bachelor. Turns out they got married if they
had a kid and he started teaching high school science.
There's a photo of him and like a school photo. Okay,
so this guy, he seems like this criminal. He's this normal,
fucking smart guy with friends that goes to church that
is like everyone likes no one can believe it one.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Of those guys.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, he's not like a gross like his fucking mugshot's creepy,
but he wasn't like he had a life.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah yeah, yeah. He says he had a pied piper
like ability to captivate people, and he so in nineteen
sixty five he and his wife separated and because he
got caught stealing again and he's served less than six months.
He loved to steal, he loved he had a compulsion

(39:58):
to steal, maybe justes he even get away with it.
And also, like Steve and I were talking before the
show story about stealing, there's something to it too, where
you just like when you have that thing like I
need this, Yeah, like you rationalize needing something.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I used to steal a lot, and it was like
it was like it was like a fuck you. I
never stole from like people or did you steal from
like CBS?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah yeah that's like the teen Girls, Yeah, right of past.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
And I was poor and didn't have money and like
to have enough for things that like everyone else got
to have, and I felt like justified. Yeah yeah, I
felt justified and like, fuck you everyone, I want this too.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I will have three wet and wild lipsticks.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yes, yeah, fucking that crazy pink that I then were
to raves.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yes, that liip liner that so long it'd lasts you
like seven years. Yes, and doesn't been to any perse
that like Maroon one and the irony there is that
wet and wild makeup is so cheap. Oh yeah, that's
the one that everyone's doing. I know, so fun.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
But then you're like, well you paid three cents to
make this with fucking slave labor.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, so give me mine, give me mine. Don't steal,
ste don't steal, don't you drugs. We used to do pink.
There would be a pink lipstick, but then you took
frosty white eyeshadow and put it on your lips. Well
it was while the gloss was still wet, and so
you had the frostiest pink lipstick of all time. Frosty
pink lipstick was fucking in eighty four. Baby. Yes, all right, anyway,

(41:26):
love it, sidebar, sidebar nation. Okay. But so.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
He so everyone loved him. He everyone, all the neighbors
trusted him. Here's a funny thing. He was asked by
local residents to babysit their children.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Sorry, well he was, but his whole act was working
being a big stealer. I'm sorry, is who the fuck
let's grown men baby sit there? Oh yeah, no, that's
my problem. And also, this was not long ago. This
wasn't like Albert fishtime really like yeah, let the old Yeah,
well listen, it's like.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Recent eighty one, where like all of that hadn't they
didn't believe the children still And you're like, my uncle
fucking touched me.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
They're like, yeah, shut the fuck up, how dare you? Yeah,
it was like burbling to the surface. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I think I think towards the end of the eighties
is when they were like, oh shit, don't leave your
kid along with a grown man.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, don't. Don't. Don't accept help from a grown man
who wants to help you with your kids.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah he doesn't. He's not being a nice guy. He's
and also grown men. If you're not a loster, don't
try to fucking babysit kids. Yeah, find another outlet. Ride horses.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
You don't need to, I don't know, find someone else. Go.
Don't you have a fantasy something team that you need
to maintain?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Watch the dogs. Fine, even the cats don't offer to
watch the children.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Just get a bunch of dogs. Yeah, we've solved it.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Done, done, Look at us legislation corner with Karen Androorda.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
So easy, let's see. Oh but then guess what.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
In nineteen eighty one, while visiting some friends, he's sexually
in molested their nine year old daughter.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
And this is when his whole facade started to crumble. Oh,
he was.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Prosecuted and pled guilty, but he and received I'm sorry,
what did he receive for this fucking what probation? But
he said that, he said, he said he pled guilty
because he didn't want it to become a big thing.
He wanted to kind of keep it a secret so
no one knew about it because he but he quote
didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
But he's still pled guilty to it. Whatever. Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
At this point, he falls in love with a woman
named Dixie, and then he starts He takes a paper
route in the early morning, and it turns out it's
so he could visit prostitutes without raising his wife's suspicions.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
His new wife. Yeah, adult paper routes, Yeah, suspicious as fun. Yeah,
get a fucking telemarketing job bro. So so we're back
to this woman being like, Yeah, my friend who died,
Mary Lou Pratt, was friends with Charles and he was
into fucking eyeballs, not fucking, but it has an eyeballs

(43:59):
and up. Yeah, and there's proof that he was friends
with her way before she came a fucking sex worker.
In the early eighties, Mary lived in South Dallas neighborhood
while Albright's parents had invested in cheap rental property and
he was living in one of the rental homes, and
he had a brief fling with one of Mary's friends

(44:22):
and had brought them over to the house for parties,
so they knew each other already, and then when she
started to become a sex worker, he became one of
her customers. And she said that old man Albright was
a good trick, willing to pay a little more than
the going rate. But he's claiming from jail now, I

(44:42):
just spoil the whole thing. He's claiming that he didn't
even visit prostitutes. I mean, why would he admit that.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, so I think she was his first kind of
for rand who into sex work. Yeah, says he would
pick them up talk to them, take them to get
a hair, and drop them back off.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
That sounds like a perfect date. Yeah. Sorry, what's what's
he paying for there besides hamburger? I don't know, but
I think eventually he started to do it. Okay, sooop up,
let's see da da Okay, i'd march my second ninety one.
He's arrested and charged with three counts of murder. Oh,
bless you, that's how you do it. That was okay,

(45:24):
I get it, I get it. No, I fucking get it.
How would the first time either of us have sneezed
on this podcast in thirty eight episodes, especially a fucking
closed room full of cats? I know, and I don't.
I'm gonna be honest. I don't fucking vacuum that couch much.
So all right, sorry, go ahead. No, that was an
amazing thing. Let's see.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
So but eventually he was known by several sex workers.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
I know he was violent towards them. So that was
a growing thing. Like when it started out, he was
all hamburgers and cute, and then it basically he got.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Comfortable, yeah, and started to be a to do whatever
he wanted to do. They said that one said that
he beat her with an extension chord or at a
belt to achieve orgasm. Another told a reporter that he
would Another told her that he would kill her if
she tried to take advantage of him and he and
also he was known to have an abnormal obsession with eyes,

(46:21):
and he would remove the eyes from dolls and photographs.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Man. Yeah, like, get another m O.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Because if you have this thing in your daily life,
it's like you're the bicycle killer and you're obsessed with bicycles, like.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Become the skateboard killer and said, you know, change it
up so the pops won't find you immediately. Yeah. Yeah,
it's like can't it's his obsessions, all right. Stephen with
the Britney Spears movie, he just can't stop thinking about
it every moment of every day. Yeah, he's like, oops,
I did it again. I thought about it. That wasn't

(46:55):
that funny? It wasn't well it was to me. I
appreciate that. That's why I don't fake laugh at you.
I know you don't, and I love it. And when
you laugh at me, it's always I'm always it's like
it's like you're screamsnoozing because I'm.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Like, well I was surprised. You're shocked, pleasantly shocked. Okay,
So all right, so here's okay. So the reason I
found this whole murder is because on crack dot com, Yeah,
my favorite late night fucking read.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
The best website, crack dot dude, there was one, uh.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
One list called five suspicious details of famous crimes no
one can explain.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
I love it. Sorry, I would read that for hours. Yeah.
Make that list five hundred please, I am there there.
So the weird thing about this case is that this
fucking this dude from the beginning, if you'll remember what
I can't remember, Axton, Axton, the drink driver, shindler, the
truck driver.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
They were like, well, what's his connection? He his driver's
license had the address of the killer's father. How do
does that make any sense? This guy must have been
part of it or known no fucking connection at all.
What he just happened to live in a rental property
that was owned by the killer, So there's no connection.

(48:12):
He just the guy who picked up the truck driver,
who picked up this woman who had been beaten up
and gave her ride home.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
I don't believe it, I know, but it's true. Pretty sure,
like he just is clean on the deal, even though
he knows a bit parents of the killer and for
the attempted He happened to live in a rental property
that was owned by the Albrights, and he happened to
use another of their addresses as his fake address, and

(48:41):
he just happened to be there at the time to
pick up one of his would be victims. I'm sorry.
Three happened to bees in one man's life adds up
to a whole bunch of year full of shit. Write
that shit down, man, That was mad. It's just coming
out of my mouth.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
So the cops interrograted for hours, thinking there how to
be a connection. Not a single witness had ever seen
him before, and there was no physical evidence that he
had even ever been at the crime scenes or knew
about Albright's murderer's hobby at all. In general, he seen
Schindler you're talking about, Yeah, okay, he seemed to have
no idea what was going on. He helped a woman
in need and that's all he fucking knew about. That's crazy, yeah,

(49:20):
but now okay, so hey, let me.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Also, aren't you a little suspicious like of cross country
truck drivers because of so many terrible forensic files where
it's like they have murder barns all across the Midwest.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
If you're going into a small like if you're you know,
a sex worker, you're going to a small, enclosed place
that they know were things.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I mean, no, yeah, I know. But he's he's innocent. Yeah,
well yes, okay, all right, well let's go back to
the trial. After all, after Charles Albright gets arrested December thirteenth,
nineteen ninety one, Like, doesn't this seem like an old
timey crime, like from the seventies? Complete aren't you picturing?

(50:00):
You said? Nineteen ninety I was genuinely shocked.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I know, aren't you thinking of like old fucking cadillacs
ofvills and shit? Like, yeah, it's total ninety one, which
I guess is a long time ago for for twelve
year olds whose moms let them listen.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
To this fucking podcast. HII.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
So the evidence was that eight hairs that matched Shirley Williams,
one of the victims, was found in all rights of
vacuum cleaner.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Okay, that's not good, that's just.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
A that's kind of cool, right, Like, but who had
the job of going through the vacuum, Like, did that
really happen or that they's like put some fucking I.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Mean, we cannot know, but that's that's like a forensic job.
That's what you're signing up for. Yeah, dude, there's people
who are listening who might know the answer to that.
That's true. Maybe they've done it before. Yeah, that's right.
Email us. They got a pair of tweezers and old
revlans from CVS that they shoplifted, and they're just going
through that dust bag and they're like, heal by Malka.
It's only because their boss doesn't like them, but they

(50:55):
had got that job. That's the shit job. They mouthed
off at lunch. Yeah, man, that's the shit job. They
drank too much at the fucking company picnic and called
somebody a fat bastard. Oh really, well, you'll be picking
through the vacuum cleaner bag this week, Dunhill. Damn it, shit,
I did it again.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
I always okay, we could just that could be forever, whole, forever,
all right. And then three pubic hairs from a blanket
at Shirley Williams murder scene or matched to Albright. They
also found he found hair on a yellow rain coat
that matched his hair that was near one of the bodies.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Can I should I mention at this moment that about hair.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Having what I was totally thinking too, is I think
in like the first episode, I had read the news
story that they've proven that that's not a thing anymore exclusive, Yeah,
which I just find kind of hard. I find maybe
not as not as conclusive as they originally thought. Right
that hair evidence and fiber evidence, Like if you find

(51:57):
a purple fiber and the fucking on the body of
a dead person, and the person that you think is
the suspect because of connections, also has a purple carpet, Like,
you can't just convict them on the purple carpet.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
But if there's other connection, right, if it's one piece
of many that are all fitting together exactly, But then
that's all that all speaks to. Like when you're looking
for patterns, will you see those patterns and the other fuckings?

Speaker 2 (52:21):
The other part of that is do you have a
good prosecuting attorney and do you have a shitty defense attorney?

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Right? You know what I mean? Yes?

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Man?

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Yeah, So then three hairs from the head of Susan
Peterson were found on a blanket in all Bright's trucks,
so all three of them had hair that were connected
to him. Yeah, that's import that's when you're like, okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
So December eighteenth, ninety one, the jury found him guilty
received a sentience of five years to life, but only
for the murder of Shirley Wi Lambs. It's the only
one who got convicted on five years five to life.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Are where are we? What's happening? I mean, why naturally
isn't that fifteen to life? I don't know five five?
How old was he? Do you know? Like? Was he old?
And he was in his fifties? Okay, no, not old
enough that like.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
And then thing is everyone's like, he's going to be
in there for fifteen years, and it's like, my dad
is fucking seventy one.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
That's not that old anymore. Right, And also he killed people.
He murdered people. He murdered innocent people who didn't deserve
to die.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
No, he got well, he got fucking proby on a
fucking molestation proby Do people call it that?

Speaker 1 (53:25):
I don't know that that's low I bet you anything.
I bet you that's police lingo Proby for probation yes,
I'm gonna fucking doesn't it sound like it should be? Yes,
for sure, Roby Broby, we're calling it that from Nolah copsymailas.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
So he's at the clements unit of the Texas Department
of Corrections in Amarillo, Um, and he's a motherfucking.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
But he's saying from prison that he's like he will
not admit to any event. He's blaming fucking shindler and
saying it's him. Oh interesting, yeah, and I love But
there's just no actually, there's no evidence everything about like
the woman who Rodriguez who said she attacked him, another

(54:12):
woman who knew him. Everyone saw a photo line up
and picked him like it's fucking him.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
And he grew up obsessed with eyes. Yeah, and he has.
He was trained as a he was like medical student, surgeon.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Like, what's more of a coincidence that this dude used
to live in this guy's house and put another one
of his addresses down, or and that he'd killed it
or killed them, or that this fucking eyeball obsessed, fucking
overbearing pet of mother of overbearing crazy mom who dress
him up in women's clothes. Not to say that there's
anything around with boys dressing app in women's clothes.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
As long as they're doing it themselves, exactly, you get
to do it. It's all about choice, yes, as many
things are. Yes. But also he's a repeated and seemingly
remorseless criminal, and he is what do they call that?
It's getting worse as the years go by, Each crime
gets a little worse. Then he becomes a he's a

(55:12):
child molested. He seems like he feels like he's entitled. Yes,
like I did when I used to shop. But I'm
better now. Well, but never shoplift you yours, your your
crimes never escalated.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
The thought of shoplifting now horrifies me. The thought that
I did that when I was I'm not like, he's
a top. It's I'm so embarrassed about that time, right.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Because now you know the the uh I was gonna say,
side effects, you have a moral compass, yes, exactly, and
it actually affects other people. We're talking about a person
who's probably a sociopath or more. But the but the idea,
I mean, I have to say, and I hate to
sound this way. I don't hate to sound this way.
I am this way. The idea that he removed eyes,

(55:54):
that he that there was an additional thing to his
straight up murders, that that you would that it's very
common of these serial killers to kill sex workers in
in their mind have this pseudo kind of righteous almost
religious thing about as if they're cleaning up the streets
or something like that. This extra detail of taking eyes

(56:15):
and closing eyelids is so morbidly fascinating to me.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
You know what's really weird about it too, if you
think about it, is that these women were killed pretty brutally.
They were beat up, they were stripped of their clothes,
they were raped, they were shot. Yet he carefully, systematically
removed He didn't gouge their eyes out and fucking you know,
take him and run away. He very you had to
do that, probably slowly and carefully and with the right tools. Yeah,

(56:39):
So it wasn't a fit of crazy rage that he
just went into.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Also, nobody wants to think about this, but even you
just for one second think about how insanely hideous it
would beat him and remove someone's ef Yeah, and I
mean what did he do with them? Where did he
put them? Never found them? They never found anything, not
his eyes, not their eyes. What if there's like a
rental space somewhere.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
There's gotta be so much, just six jars of eyes
staring out at you. I always wonder, wasn't there like
a the reality show where they bid on blind blots
where they would buy a rental space, a storage unit
Stage Wars, what if you fucking there's an episode of
Storage Wars.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
They throw up a door, throw open a door. Eyeballs,
just fucking six eyeballs, and hear We're like, I'll pay
a thousand? Can I start the bid in a thousand? Please?
That was good. That's an eyeball killer, man, that's good.
I didn't even really know much about that, Thank you, cracked.
I knew nothing except for when you mentioned it and
immediately assumed it was like the Torso killer in Ohio,

(57:46):
like thirty style old fashioned murderer.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah, because it feels like old timey. And the other
thing is that about this guy that is suspicious is
that he was this childmaster or this criminal, this like
fucking crazy, you know, and yet he had the charming
normal life. It wasn't like he was living, you know,
off the grid and as a like drifter.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
No, he had the mask on tight. He maintained man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
People, and you know there's all these comments of people,
the normal comments of I can't believe it. Not him,
no way, it's amazing. He was such a nice guy,
you know. And then this family's like he molested our daughter. Yeah, shocked, crazy, Yeah,
that's a some fucked up ship.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Man. He was a screamsnee of a human being, is
what he was. Oh my god, I just scared that
so bad. I just scream laugh. I'm sorry. Maybe, Oh
my gosh, she's lost her mind. Mem seems fragile. She
verys like, okay, I please. She was kind on a
dumpster and we are beck. What a horrible story, Georgia.

(58:49):
Any updates on this one? Yeah. Actually, one of the
officers who worked on the eyeball killer case was a
rookie named Regina Smith, now a retired lieutenant. She told
Any True Crime that the thing that stuck with her
the most about the case was getting the family's closure
and finding the eyeballs. After she retired, she reached out
to Albright in prison for answers, which is bold and brave. Yeah.

(59:13):
He agreed to see her, but was in hospice and
visitors were not allowed, so she did not get an
answer because Charles Albright died in prison in twenty twenty
at the age of eighty seven. Oh yeah, all right,
how about an equally awful story, a big one too.
This is Karen's story about co ed killer ed Kemper.

(59:40):
All right, well, should I do mine? No? I mean,
I'm going to blaze through this because here's the thing.
Did I take too long? No? No, no, no, I
loved it? It was so good. Should I do mine?
That's one of his podcasting didn't mean it? First of all,
mine is a heavy hitter. And I feel like a
lot of people know this one. I definitely a lot

(01:00:02):
of people have written to us and requested that we
do this guy and ran all over your parade. No, no, no,
take your fucking time. Man. Uh it's Edmund Kemper, the
co ed. Yeah, it's the man who is six foot
nine stevens six foot nine. That in and of itself
is scary and intimidating, intimidating. Sorry to all youse super

(01:00:23):
tall guys out there, but it is. And when you
see video of Edmund Kemper walking with cops.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Is he a big guy too? Like not just like
a tall, skinny air is he.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
I mean he's not humongous. Yeah, he is proportionate, but
when he walks through doorways he has to duck. It's
he's that tall, six' nine is out of. Control and
to imagine that on top of, that he's a, psychotic, paranoid,
schizophrenic psychopathic. Killer it's so.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Upsetting you think he went crazy because people kept asking
him if he plays.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
BASKETBALL i always wonder that about tall. People how fucking so.
Sigmt and also so it's like people expect them to be,
good and then when they're, not they get, like fucking play.
BASKETBALL i don't like. Basketball i'm. NOT i love. Golf
did you play? Basketball, man, dude you must love? Basketball?
Now fuck? You all, Right, so just to, briefly, ALSO

(01:01:15):
i don't like doing these ones BECAUSE i don't like
to talk about the serial killer themselves like they're a.
STAR i fucking hate, that like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Knowing their whole life when really it's, like fuck, you
this one woman that you murdered life is way more
important than your whole.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Life, well and, also you rendered your own life like
a shitty a shitty factoid list because of the actions
that you acted out in that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Life so you hear them obvious and this fucking example
of what serial killers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Are, Like, yeah but it's not impressive to. Me it's.
Not and also when you see this person, interviewed to,
me ALL i think is what a? Waste because he
was really. Smart he was a big giant that was
also a. Genius no one ever knew he was a
genius because he had a terrible, mother this which is
kind of sometimes a theme on THE. Yah another, abusive like, obsessive,

(01:02:07):
controlling dominant mother who was impossible to. Please and, yes
all dominant, MOTHERS i, mean so let's, see it just
basically goes like. This he was born In, Burbank. California
what that's right on the. Street that's. Crazy he his

(01:02:30):
parents had a bad. Marriage they divorced When ed was,
nine and his mother moved him To, Helena. Montana and
there he all he wanted was a father and instead
this one article said he had a string a subsequent
string of. Stepfathers but then WHEN i looked into, it
it seemed like his mother only got remarried one other.

(01:02:51):
Time she probably. Dated and ALSO i think the evil
mother kind of recurring theme is a thing that people
very easily can kind of fill in the bleach she
married all the, time she was an, old bitchy. SLUT i,
mean it's like to, me that's what it kept coming,
out was, like well what if she was what if

(01:03:12):
he was a six foot nine monster that she had
to control and didn't know what to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Do it comes me out that they blame it on
like the mom who stayed and raised him and that
not the, daddy this single.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Mom, yeah BUT i mean who, knows who knows the?
DETAILS i just feel like there's there's always this a
little bit of that where it's, Like, okay she was
mean and, domineering but now she married a bunch of,
people like, yeah, whatever and the and marrying a bunch
of people is, like, oh you're a fucking shitty mom
and a. Slut well maybe just maybe let's just put
it out. There maybe not maybe not so but he

(01:03:47):
in his like early, teens he starts to display his
anti social personality. Traits so him and his system. Sister
this made me. Laugh AND i was watching this a
really Good british series that you can find on, YouTube
like any killer you, want there will be This british
series that comes up and they just give you tons
of information and really good. FACTS i have no. Idea

(01:04:09):
you're going to, say no, IDEA i. Can i'll tell
you next. Week it'll be like a fun. Surprise it's
Like crime And Evidence british. Accent and it's also not ON.
Bbc it's not on ANYTHING i would. Recognize it's almost
like an. Independent all the people In england right now
are like giving me all kinds of two fingers up
in the air for not knowing. This yeah uh. So

(01:04:33):
but if you look Up Evan, kemper it's the first
documentary series on him on. YouTube it's Called crimes And
stuff and Christ crimes And crumpets And british. Accents so
him and a sister would play a game called Gas,
chamber where his sister would throw pellets into his room
and then close the, door and he would pretend he

(01:04:54):
was dying of. Asphyxiation oh that sounds, normal that's. It
he made me laugh so hard BECAUSE i. Was and
then it was like a bunch of stuff of like
then he would make his sister's dolls have, sex AND
i was, like, yeah standard, FAIR i did. That everybody did.
THAT i stold my BROTHER I, joes and they were
totally Bone. Barbie, yes that's what dolls are. For, yeah
it's all like get him in that dream, house, yeah

(01:05:16):
and get to fuck. It and then you smash them
together and they're, boning and you have no idea what
or why. Smash you just know that it's exciting that
they're in the same bed and they're on a little
plastic bed. Together sex is that plantin now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Smash So but here's where it all was very different
than most of our. Childhoods he told his sister in
grammar school that he had a crush on his. Teacher
and when he said he wanted to kiss his, teacher
his sister, said why don't You and he, said Because i'd.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Have to kill her. First so the sister's, LIKE i
may get a glass of juice and like slowly crab
walks out of the, room, okay And i'll be right.
BACK i just let me if you're getting on the
ground crab walking instead of just like backing out of the,
room you, know she had to go out sideways with
all her eyes looking at, him so breaking. Down his,

(01:06:10):
mother when he was a little bit, older made him
live in the basement because she was afraid that he
would molest his. Sisters so, yeah it. Was it was
dark and. Bad that's. Weird it also was believed that
that mother suffered from borderline personality, disorder which explains the
rages and the. Abuse oh, honey so that's you, know fair's,
fair we're going to say all this stuff about. Her

(01:06:30):
but then also everyone sucks all. AROUND i, mean here's the.
Thing untreated mental illness affects people terribly and in a
ripple effect. Totally that isn't just the person who isn't
taking their medicine or the person who can't afford their.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Medicine also see my therapy sessions every week of me
going Through.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Yeah, shit, yes it's mental health is very, important so.
Important and my mother was a psychiatric nurse and in
the eighties When proposition thirteen closed down all the mental,
hospitals the worst thing that ever. Happened rant and rave
every night about how terrible the future is going to
be for people who needed help and wouldn't be able
to get.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
IT i also see the fucking insane amount of homeless
people we have in this country rights because they don't
have easy access to fucking mental health.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Services and they need. Help, yeah and basically the state
is gone to that all? Right, NOPE i want to
keep talking about back to ed my? Mother would you
know what that would be? Like her? Dream IF i
want to talk about this all the, time. Honestly, so
when he was, fifteen his mother sent him to live
with his father in la who and his father had

(01:07:38):
a new wife and, stepson and so he lasted a month,
there and then his father sent him to live with his,
grandparents who are the father's, parents on a seventeen acre
farm In North, Fork, california which sounds. Nice it actually.
Is it butts up right against The sierra's right now Or.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
YOSEMITE i was going to, say how awful is to
sendri kid away to, someone but that sounds fucking like
a nice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Vacation pretty, Nice and also, like if you have a
kid that's, troubled, yeah quote put him to him to a,
farm get him out there, right teach him some fucking.
Responsibility well turned out that the grandmother was also domineering,
oops and the grandfather had early stages of, dementia so
there was already some. Drama has guy had no? CHANCE i, mean,
yeah he had his own twenty Two so he shot

(01:08:25):
rabbits and gophers and even though his grandmother told him
not to birds. Great rabbits and gophers are, fine but
birds are off. Limits well because, gophers rabbits rabbit. Them,
yeah they eat the if it's a working, farm they
eat the. Vegetables. Bunnies birds do, too, though but they're beautiful.
Anyway so that summer he was sent back To helena

(01:08:48):
to stay with his, mother but then he came back
after two. Weeks so it was basically nobody wanted the,
giant scary guy around and he was only. Fifteen can
you believe? IT i, know it's like so long fair,
Though it's like it feel really bad for. Him it's
lots of rejection and lots of, criticism and like he
already clearly had something going on. Mentally and then everyone

(01:09:08):
was just.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Like this is the point where maybe you can intervene
that it didn't, happen.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Right quite the, opposite. Right it said That ed's grandmother
feared him enough that she took her forty five with
her anytime she left the house so That ed wouldn't
be near. It oh, no the twenty two is, Fine,
Yeah i'm taking that forty. Five. Yeah so, basically one
day he decides he's going to shoot his grandmother on

(01:09:34):
the back of the, head and when police ask him,
why he, said, UH i wanted to see what it
felt like to kill. Grandma so he's he's flipped over
into a next. Level he doesn't understand the finality of
that at. All if by, saying if you say that
you don't, understand, well, yeah he's, Like i'm testing out
to see what it's going to feel like as opposed

(01:09:55):
to being able to walk through. THAT i wanted her to.
Die this will feel really, bad, yeah and everyone's feel.
Bad so he shot her in the back of the.
Head he was pretending like he was leaving the, house
took picked up his twenty, two walked. Out she saw
the weird look in his, eye and then he stood.
Outside this is according to. Him he stood outside watching

(01:10:16):
her from the porch and then shot her through the
screen doorsh what's? That oh my. God so then he
waited for his grandfather to get home from a store
and then shot him because he didn't he didn't he
knew his grandfather father would be upset and, angry so
he didn't want to have to deal with, that so

(01:10:36):
he just killed the. Grandfather you do not have a
fucking right right? Mind? Man, no because then the next
thing he did was call his.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Mom and this isn't a murderous this is someone who
doesn't have access to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Reality, YEAH i think this is like the beginnings of
being a psychopath or like having some kind of a,
break like a.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Dissociative let's just throw some let's make sure that. Terminology
we're professional, psychologicist.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
Right so so he calls his mother and she, says
call the. Sheriff so he calls the, sheriff tells them
what he, did sits on the front porch and waits
for the cops to. Come and that's when they got
that quote OF i wanted to see what it would
be like to kill. Grandma he, also after he shot his,

(01:11:24):
grandma stabbed her several times with a knight Whoa, yeah
so he wanted to kill. Her that's feel That, wow
just shot the grandpa. Though so then the police were
shocked and he was committed to A Tescadero State, hospitals
a Mental it is kind of a famous mental hospital
up in Northern. California he was diagnosed with a paranoid,

(01:11:45):
schizophrenia but he was tested with a near GENIUS, iq
and in the mental hospital he learned how to mask his.
Insanity so he basically got along blended and he. Did
he did really well with, structure and when people were
in charge of him but not me and unjudgmental of,
him he. Worked it worked very well for. Him so he.

(01:12:08):
Learned he became a runner for one of the, doctors
like an assistant to one of the, doctors and that
actually enabled. Him he like the doctor trusted him that,
much but that enabled him to read the doctor's. Files
so he memorized the answers to psychological tests that he
saw in the, files and so he basically learned what

(01:12:33):
to say to sound like a normal. Person he learned
it out of reading it off of. Tests so he
would read all the psychological, tests see what the correct answers,
were and basically that. Way so after four, years those
doctors Added tescadero deemed normal enough to re enter society
four years after killing both his. Grandparents and it was.

(01:12:53):
It so we never tried. THAT i never went to
trial for these. Mergers, no straight to the mental. Hospital it's.
Crazy so in nineteen sixty, nine The California Youth authority
released him back into the care of his. Mother clarnel
was imagine being, like h, well my kid's back. Home,
YEAH i guess the murderer is. Home even though the

(01:13:14):
doctor said he can't go live with his, mother that's
where they sent. Him so now he was in the
hospital for four. Years so it was between nineteen sixty
five and nineteen sixty nine when the Cultural revolution took,
place and it took place in basically the eye of
the storm Was San Francisco Bay. Area, yeah and that's
they lived right outside. It so, sex, drugs and rebellion

(01:13:39):
were the order of the. Day, CLEARLY i was just
typing what the narrator was saying on this BECAUSE i
was never sex sounds really casual like. That they were
the order of the, day the sex SO ed wanted
To ed's reaction to that was he wanted to become a.
Cop he didn't like any of. It he wasn't down
with the hippies because he liked the. Order he liked,

(01:14:00):
order and he liked and he wanted to be in.
Charge so maybe he was. Trying the problem was he's
too big to be a there's actually a regulation against
that size of. Person do you know what makes me feel?
SAFE a fucking six foot nine. Cop, yes, True but
then also a six foot nine cop could basically do
whatever he wants at all. Times maybe that's part of.
It or he wouldn't fit into the car and a

(01:14:22):
cop could do it ever he wants all the. Time
the pants would be too, short maybe he would be
a laughing. Stock so instead he became a construction worker
and he hung. Out he lived In Santa cruz and
he hung out at a bar called The Jury, room
where cops and lawyers went and often hung. Out so
we go there right. Now he basically like hung among,

(01:14:47):
them and they all kind of knew him As Big.
Ad so after a while from being a construction, WORKER
i think he also worked for Cal, trons which is
basically the guy on the side of the. Road he
saved up moves out of his mother house house In
Santa cruz and moved To, alameda which was ninety minutes.
Away could they have a good flea market there In? Alameda,

(01:15:09):
Oh i'm going to. Go so when he was living by,
himself he felt, angry, awkward and. LONELY i don't know
if those things had anything to do with each, other
but he that's how he. Felt in the. World so
he started picking up female, hitchhikers practicing how to get
them into his, car practicing what to say to them

(01:15:29):
to get them into his, car practicing what to talk
to them about once they were in his. Car he
picked up over one hundred and fifty hitchhikers as. Practiced holy.
Shit and then he decided he was going to fix
the passenger side door so it couldn't be opened from the.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
INSIDE i can't believe there were that many hitchhikers to pick.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Up nineteen sixty. Nine, yeah that's all anyone was. Doing
that's back when it was like. Celebrated so he practiced
for long. Enough in the spring of nineteen seventy, two
he finally decided he was going to go to the next.
Level he picked Up Marianne peshi And Anita, luceza who
were students At Fresno, state and they were hitchhiking To

(01:16:10):
stanford to see friends after a weekend In. Berkeley but
they never made. It and this was the, time of,
course when police never looked into missing persons, cases especially
that of young, women because of the amount of runaways
and transience there, were so they they're according to, cops
girls ran away all the, time and they would always

(01:16:30):
show up later because they were with their boyfriend or
they were with their. Friends so there it was almost
that like these fucking hippie kids LIKE i don't want
to hear. About, yeah we're not going to waste our. Time,
yeah that was the. Mentality so So ed drove these
two girls to an isolated. Spot he Made anita get

(01:16:51):
into the, trunk and then he put a bag Over
marianne's had to suffocate. Her she fought, back she bit
a hole into the, bag and then he Became he
never thought that anybody would fight. Back he became, enraged
and he stabbed her. Repeatedly then he got out uh
and went into the trunk and slit a neat his.
Throat but because the fighting like that wasn't the kill

(01:17:13):
that he fantasized, about so he took their body at
your need to brace yourself for this par. Scared he
took their bodies back to his apartment and raped their,
corpses and then he dismembered them and he put their
body parts into plastic bags and left those bags all
around The bay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
Area can you imagine that that's the first time you
really like you you killed someone by shooting them, before
but the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
He was, stabbing, right and it was your? Grandparents, yes,
yeah but like raping a, CORPSE i, mean, memberment that's
not an easy thing to fucking. Do, no it's. Hideous
but you, know he was, fantasizing and they talked in
this this documentary about that how much serial killers fantasize
about what they're going to. Do, God so then he

(01:18:01):
had fantasized about it all happening in the. Car but
since that got fucked, up this was like this weird
plan be improv that he was. Doing that then became his.
Emo so two months, later hikers Found marianne's head in
the mountains and that was the only evidence ever found

(01:18:22):
of the. Two the fuck is the only thing they ever.
Found so In september of that, year so this that was,
spring so like five months, later he picks up fifteen
year old Hitchhiker. Koku, honey don't do. It she was,
fifteen she WAS i think they said she was Half
korean and half uh Like romanian or. Something she was a.

(01:18:45):
Dancer she's on a way to dance, class so she
was really. Small, honey don't fucking hitchhig to dance, class
and you're tiny and you're, fifteen like all of these
things are so. Much, no he picks her. Up he
drives her an isolated. Location but when he tells her
he's this is a, kidnapping she loses her shit and

(01:19:06):
it becomes. Hysterical so to calm her, down he says
that he was going to kill himself and take her with,
him but now he's changed his. Mind and then he
gets out to get something in the, trunk and the
door shuts and locks behind. Him, Girl so now she's
in inside his locked car and he's locked. Out, yes

(01:19:28):
but he convinces her to open the. Door but this
is this is this is him practicing on those one
hundred and fifty. Girls this is a person who's figured
out with his GENIUS, iq how to get what he wants,
yep and how to tell them exactly what they specifically
want to hear and need to. Hear god damn. It so,

(01:19:52):
anyway he suffocates her until she's. Unconscious he puts tape
over her mouth and then holds her nose, closed so
he is, LIKE u close into this the, killing you know.
Horribly then he raped her and strangled her with her own,
scarf and they put her dead body in the trunk

(01:20:13):
and then went to a bar for a couple of.
Beers he, Did, oh, yeah, okay he said they AND
i wasn't. Sure, no, no. Sorry then then he takes
the body back to his apartment and it's the same,
thing dismembers and scattering her remains all over the. Barrier,
so because a serial killer is a person who's killed

(01:20:35):
three or more people on three or more, occasions with
the cooling off period in between, crimes this kill officially
makes him a serial. Killer so the next day he
had a state mandate dated meeting with his, psychiatrist and
her head was in his. Trunk holy fucked during that,
meeting and he made such an impression on the psychiatrist

(01:20:59):
that they decide he didn't need to see a psychiatrist.
Anymore day after he murdered this, girl yeap to be
good what he? Did, yeah so uh to make matters.
Worse at the same, time there was another serial killer
Named Herbert mullen that was operating in The Santa cruz
area at the exact same. Time and this was the

(01:21:20):
guy that was killing people because he thought it was
keeping that big earthquake from. Happening did you ever hear this?
GUY i think he deserves his own. Episode yeah he.
Was he he killed, hitchhikers he killed he shot an
old man in his. Yard he was a, child he,
yeah and he was Completely yeah he. WAS i had no,
idea you got to.

Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
Go.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Yeah. Uh so that guy got arrested in nineteen seventy
three and the police, thought, oh, great this is all over.
Now he should have just stopped killing then and he
wouldn't have ever gotten, caught you, know but he couldn't do.
It four months after his third, murder he was now.
Broke so he moved in back in with his. Mother,
yeah come on back. Home, yeah that's gonna work out.
Good so this Is january eighth of nineteen seventy. Two his.

(01:22:07):
Mother he and his mother argue all. Day he goes
out buys a, gun and then he picks up Hitchhiker Cindy,
Shawl and according to, him this is the way he
tells the story that he drives her to a remote,
location shows her the, gun then gets out of the
car to open the, trunk and he leaves the gun
in the car with, her and instead of grabbing. It

(01:22:29):
she follows him back to the trunk and, says, my
what a big trunk do you want me to get in?
It which to me is it's his version of the store,
right because he has talked and talked like they have
hours an hour of his. Confession my what a big? Trunk,
my what a big trunk you, have. Grandma so she

(01:22:50):
gets into the trunk and he shoots her once in the,
head or he does what he did, before which is sired,
uh strangles. Her she's in the. Trunk she's got a
bullet in her. Head he brings the body back to
his mother's, house has sex with the. Corps this members
her body in his mother's bathtub and buries her head

(01:23:11):
in his mother's. Backyard throws the rest of the body
into the, ocean but she's discovered twenty four hours, later
so most of her body parts wash back up on.
Shore so a month later he has another fight with
his mother and then he goes out for a, drive
and this time he picks up TWO u See Santa cruz,

(01:23:33):
Students Rosaland thorpe And alice lou and all of the,
students all the female. Students because he was now called
the co ed, killer and so all the students AT
U See Santa, cruz where all the female students were,
worn do not, hitchhike do not take rides from. Strangers
but his, car it was his mother's, car so it

(01:23:53):
had A U See Santa cruz parking sticker on. It
his mother worked AT You See Santa, cruz so they
thought it was. Safe, yea, yeah but it's not like.
That a person who goes to your school couldn't be
a killer, too you. Know, yeah but they're all thinking it's,
LIKE i, mean like a psycho. Killer well it, is but,
yeah he shot. Them it's the exact same. Thing shot,

(01:24:13):
them raped their, bodies dismembered, them scattered their. Remains then
he decides he's going to buy a forty. Four he
needs a new. Gun so a routine police background check
brings up his, name and the police when they look him,
up it's just an index card that says double. Murder
so so they put his records receealed because he was a.

(01:24:34):
Teenager so they put a hold on the gun.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
Purchase oh but a great idea to put a hold
on purchases for people have mental.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Illnesses oh, no, Sorry i'm. Sorry they couldn't put a
hold on. It he'd already bought. It they go to confiscate.
It so they show up at his. House but It's Big.
Ed they Know Big. Ed there's no. Problem It's Big.
Ed he goes to the jury, room he hangs out with. Them,
yeah he's a good friend of. Ours so and they
assure him it's just a it's just a thank you of.

(01:25:02):
Formality But ed got paranoid because he was, like they're onto,
me and so he. Ran so he what he, sorry
this is the this is the big. One so he's.
Paranoid he'm sure the cops are on. Him so On
april twenty, first nineteen seventy, three he decides he's going

(01:25:24):
to kill his. Mother so that's a solution to, everything,
Right it's that's gonna be, big his big. Finale so
his mother's sleeping and he goes into her bedroom with
a claw, hammer beats her to death with a, hammer,
fuck decapitates, her has sex with her, corpse not courts
in the garbage, DISPOSAL i mean like symbolic as. Fuck,

(01:25:48):
Yes and he talked about. It it's and LIKE i
saw like probably ten seconds of him talking about. It
it's just it's not it's not anybody worth listening. To
it's just like a person who thinks it's great when
they're telling you. Great it's not just like normal that
thinks it's, great thinks it's, cool thinks it's like that's
that's pretty, ironic isn't. It you, know like it's this

(01:26:08):
kind of there's like a swagger to. It you just
want to. So so then he decides that it's going
to look like he did, it so a way to
make it not look like that is he calls up
his mother's best, Friend Sally, hallett invites her over to
a surprise dinner quote, unquote and when she gets, there
he chokes her to. Death and so when the cops

(01:26:30):
find both of their, bodies he's in his mind they're
going to think it's a break in and it has
nothing to do with. That that's his. Thinking and then
he goes on the. Run so he jumps in his.
Car he drives, east and they were still looking for
the co ed. Killer they in no way were looking for,
Him they had no. Idea he drives for three. Days

(01:26:52):
he hears no news on the radio about himself or
using his, name or. Anything and by the time he
gets To, Puebo, colorado he calls The Santa Cruz police
and confesses because he's so mad that they're not talking
about him and like and that he was wrong and
uh so the The Santa Cruz police have to drive
out To, Pueblo colorado to pick him. Up and they,

(01:27:14):
said when he, oh The pueblo police, said when they went, out,
like The Santa cruz police had The pueblo cops go
pick him. Up when they went and picked him up
to arrest, him he put his hands on top of
the phone. Booth that's how. Big oh my. God, YEAH
i just can't get. IT i can't deal with. It
nine horrifying it. Is he's just a humongous.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Monster vince is like six' four and he's very. Fucking,
tall yeah and he's five. Inches, taller yeah. That's insane it's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
Very tall so on the whole, drive Back The Santa
cruz police have to listen to, his confession and. He talked,
they said there's. One cop it was like one of
his first. Cases ever, he said he TALKED until i
couldn't listen to it. Any more it was, so upsetting
and he just wanted to talk about all of it
and gave every detail of every. Single thing so basically

(01:28:07):
he tries to. Plead insanity the jury declares himsane and
guilty of all. Eight murders he's eight counts. A murder
he asks when he gets goes, to jail he asks for,
a lobotomy and the authorities, say no it's. Too dangerous
but he's basically trying, to suggest like cut off the
connections between this idea and like, the action or like

(01:28:28):
get this out of.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
MY head i rarely think a lobotomy would have. HELPED
him i mean it would have just rendered him like a.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
Vegetable, basically yeah he would have just been a bigger
pain to, Deal with like to he wouldn't have been
able to do anything. For. Himself. Yeah probably he was
once quoted, in interview what do you think now when
you see a pretty girl walking down, The street and,
he answered one side of, Me, says wow what an.
Attractive chick i'd like to talk, to her. Date her

(01:28:55):
the other side of, ME says i wonder how her
head would look on. A stick. Holy, Thought yeah and
that's Actually In Brad easton Ellis's book. American Psycho patrick
bateman paraphrases this quote when he's asked, about women but
he attributes It To, ed gene but it's Actually An ed.
Kemper quote and Also in silence Of, The Lambs thomas
harris Wrote That buffalo bill started his career as a

(01:29:18):
serial killer by impulsively killing his grandparents as, a teenager
which was based On ed Kemper neat oh. And killer
it's so weird that it's like such close, by stuff, you,
know yeah close. To us hitting a cruise is like.
Not far it's. So. Scary, Yeah gross it's funny that

(01:29:39):
we both said serial killers.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
THIS time, i, know hmm we're getting. Deep, NOW well, i,
mean yeah we have to say one thing that made
us happy this. Past week But, it's monday so it's been.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
THAT lie, I mean i'm gonna have To Say pole
dark When Poll Dark ross pulldark takes off a shirt
to swim in the ocean to clean off the. Mind
dust it's like the most beautiful thing you've. Ever seen that.
SOUNDS cool i think. Mine was we went. Last night
we went to The New, beverly theater which is like

(01:30:16):
really it's owned Now By. Quentin tarantino but it's this
really cool art house theater that's been. Around Forever quentin
tarantino bought it to like, save IT which i love.
Him for and they were playing the nineteen fifties Version,
of dracula and we Went With joe, DeRosa's parents who
we were talking about from the, his podcasts and like
met them and they were the sweetest. People ever and

(01:30:38):
it was like just such, a nice nice thing that
someone wants you to meet their parents as, an adult
which like doesn't really. Happen, Anymore yes and it was
a cool movie and then they were fun to hang, out, With,
right yeah they were.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
The best and they And Then new beverly has frozen,
junior mins like as the thing you, can buy like
because they know that that people.

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
LIKE them i didn't, know that and frozen junior mints
are like a. Family.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
Favorite yeah they they have them frozen juniumens and frozen
snicker bars there you can Get she they're just, like
yeah and they have Fucking White castle burgers you.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Can get, There too like are? You serious the frozen
and they peed. Them up but Also The new beverly
is the best popcorn of all.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
Movie theater the best popcorn and it's so, cheap there
like they have the movie theater candy prices from, The
eighties is? That, true yes we bought so much shit
and they, were like they were like fifty dollars in
this MUCH and i handed them fifty and they, were, like, no.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
FIFTEEN and i almost lost.

Speaker 2 (01:31:29):
My MIND so i ended up giving the guy a five.
Dollars tip and so, like theaters.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
You, were, like yeah this is going to cost me
eighty five. Dollars, fortune yeah that's. The best. That's yeah
got if you LIVE in la you should absolutely support
The new beverly and they have just.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
The best they'll have double features of like the.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Coolest. Movies yeah APRIL and i went there to see
because she's Obsessed, with elvis and we went To see
elvis's concert FILM that i remember the, name of and
it was so fun and everyone there was super. Into
it it's like it feels like. An event we can.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Go there you know what it's better then is going
to a fucking the cemetery movie screening where you have
to sit outdoors in the, freezing cold on the freezing
cold like grass and watch a movie ON the i
don't need to. Do that go to a fucking go
To the beverly then go down the street To, l
coyote get Great. Fucking, margarita's yeah life, is good.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
Good, Times, yeah okay. We're Back Wow, wow karen do
you have any updates on this? Old, case well. A
couple i mean it is. Really old it's one of
the most famous serial, killer cases as, we know as
anyone listening, probably knows and as we've seen since The mind.

(01:32:44):
Hunter era Right now i'm Speaking To, david Fincher And
david fincher only listen. To me the people that care
want that season three Of, mind hunter and you need
to take, Your power fincher and. Use, it finchy, come,
on man get, your shit get Off of netflix and
can Go to hulu with that. Third. Season please we.

(01:33:06):
Need it we. Need, it sorry this is back to.
Everybody else here's. Some Updates ed kemper has spent the
last fifty years serving his. Life sentence now he's confined to.
A wheelchair he, has diabetes he has coronary. Heart disease
he had a stroke. Years ago he's been denied parole.
Twelve times after his last, Parole Hearing Santa Cruz District

(01:33:29):
Attorney jeff rozel testified to the parole Board That ed
kemper is. Still dangerous this is, The Quote ed kemper is,
still dangerous he remains a high risk and quote he.
Is untreated he is essentially the same man as when
he went in for this. End, quote, wow yeah are you? With?
Me THAT like i would have guessed he wasn't. Alive

(01:33:49):
anymore that's. Completely, WILD also i feel like we like
we would have heard from him more like we Heard
From charles manson every now. And again well we haven't.
Heard anything that is the. Weird PART and i know
that like this the thing where if you talk about
serial killers, too long you kind of go into a,
you know as if you're the scientist that knows the
psychology behind this. Or ANYTHING but i always thought it

(01:34:09):
was really Interesting Because ed kemper went to like the
story behind like relationship with his mother and so much
about that, child abuse very real, child abuse and the
relationship with his mother and all. Those things and then
when he went, to jail not kind of separate from
the conversation of him being one of the worst serial killers.

(01:34:30):
There is he went to jail and then he started
reading audiobooks for, the blind and he has apparently read
over like five thousand hours of audiobooks for. The blind
it Was a refinery twenty nine article about the fact
that someone discovered that he had been, doing that so
like they're out there and we don't know. It's, him
yeah and it's essentially a program he started in jail

(01:34:54):
and he the quote in that article was that it
made him feel better that he was doing something constructive for.
OTHER people i don't think that's the way. Psychopaths, think
yeah now, that's confounding, but sure, who knows or maybe
it was just like this is his plan to make
it look like he's doing good things to. GET out i,
don't know. It's, crazy yeah here's what's. Really Important, cameron

(01:35:17):
britton who was the actor that Played at kemper On
mind hunter, so brilliantly who was also from the town
Next To. Penlimma sebastopol he was our guest on our
live SHOW in la that had seven thousand people at
It for halloween and he was the loveliest, human beings. So. Wonderful,
yeah yeah that was very surreal. And, exciting yeah that's

(01:35:38):
what we're going to focus on at the end of. That,
story yeah is the actors Who, play, yeah okay so
if we're naming it today based on something we said in,
THE episode i think kind of. Locos works but what
else could? We do there was me talking about, lint traps,
of course and so the phrase hint of lint. Was,
used yes very important. TO Remember i felix scream sneezing

(01:35:59):
and lint trap cleaning have been two really good lessons we've. Taught,
people yeah the mansion of corners we could call it
after we had a few different corners in the intro
correction corner and blah blah. Blah corner mansion. Of corners
there's so many corners in this house that it's. A
mansion i. Get, It, OKAY yeah i. Think SO and

(01:36:20):
i guess the phrase that's, on. You mommy when we're talking,
about that you need to make your. Kids listen if,
the parent it's the. PARENT'S fault, i like that's, on,
you mommy that's, on. YOU mommy, i mean that was
a really. Good, episode yeah that's a. Big one that's a.
Good one we're, Doing great we're only we're in. Our
stride in episode what is this? Thirty, nine, yes finally

(01:36:42):
look it took. Ten months that's our advice to you if,
you're trying if you're starting, Your, podcast yeah give yourself
ten months to really work out some really serious. Kinks
totally and remember that what you're saying into the microphone
is going to go out into the. Internet, forever yeah
and in nine years you're going to have to listen
to it and like. Explain, yourself yeah so don't forget,
that either explain, your. Hysteria ladies, all, right well thanks.

(01:37:07):
For listening we're Here every wednesday doing these rewinds of our,
old episode so if you're starting to get into, the
podcast it's a great way to. Do, it yeah thank
you guys. For listening we. Appreciate you stay sexy and don't. Get, Murdered.
Goodbye elvis do you want? To cook e

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 39: Kind of Loco

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 39: Kind of Loco