Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 43: In Arrears - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the episode where we take you back to
the early days of My Favorite Murder and we recap
our old episodes with new commentary and updates and insights.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
And in today's episode, we're freecapping episode forty three, which
I'll never forget the name because I didn't know what
the word meant and it was the first time I
think I heard it. The episode is called in.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Arrears interrears, arrears. That's right, interreears, in.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Your ear, interrears.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
This episode came out on November seventeenth, twenty sixteen. Rue
Paul's birthday, Rachel mcadam's birthday, Danny DeVito's birthday, three classic scorpios, gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I hope they celebrate together. What a great party.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
That would make so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
But in the meantime, let's listen to the intro of
episode forty three.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Let's hurt a punk band. Okay, Hey, what should the
name of it be? Hard Kill? Okay? All right, all right, bye.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Uh, Welcome to My Favorite Murder. My name's Karen Kilgarriff.
That's Georgia heart start Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
We're here to talk about true crime murders and how
it feels to be alive in late twenty sixteen Georgia.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
What are your thoughts? Oh, let's fucking get in.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Do you really want to ask me that question? Dude,
let's go to the phones.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
When you say late twenty sixteen, that makes me think
that someday this will be like a time capsule. Someone
and hold on. I feel like I'm talking with my mouth,
you know that, like.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
You are talking with your mouth the whole thing. I
just need a bite of something, and I have that
like weird chewed up food. Yeah, that weird chewed up
food that you get in your mouth and everything. Yeah,
I get that.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Sometimes it's dinner, breakfast, sometimes sometimes lunch, I don't know, snacks.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Time capsule, Hello to twenty fifty.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
I mean, seriously, everything that you do that gets put
on the Internet is permanent, and.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I remember the Internet post down and everything. I don't
believe that that's very true. Unless the grid goes down,
I think all of society ends. That's what I really
think is. I actually don't feel that this is going
to be a time capsule because it's all going to
go down. There's a really great book that I won't remember.
Is it called It's All Going to Go Down? Yeah,
but I haven't written it yet, and it's.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Not based on anything scientific or uh. It's not like
your computer person or anything.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
It's just kind of like.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
They're going to do account in twenty fifty and the
word do is going to appear four thousand times in
my book.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
Dude, bro, dude. So then.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I texted Georgia. Sorry, I went away for a second
because I had to remember this. But I don't know
what you're gonna say, and I'm scared. I texted Georgia. No,
it was just about something. But I in the text
I called you dude. It was like something congratulatory, and
I was like, way to go, dude, and you wrote back,
that's so dude.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
I know I saw that later. I Did you do
it on purpose?

Speaker 3 (03:30):
No?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Okay, I couldn't figure out if you were being It
felt like you were like thanks, Like it was like
you going, yeah, thanks a lot.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
No. What I meant to write actually was thanks, dude,
but instead I wrote that's dude, that's so dude's dude,
and I didn't I didn't notice it till like hours later,
So I was like, well, I'm not going to bother her.
It's like it was like nighttime on a Saturday. I'm
not going to bother her now. So that's dude, Like
she's kind of know what I mean. I'm little bit

(03:58):
I looked at it.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was just like, she might be telling me to
fuck off right now, although there's really no reason to allay.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
If I'm telling you to fuck off, it's because I
miswrote something.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Oh, because like you type did it because you were
trying to write? Thanks dude.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
And if I put an exclamation mark, it's friendly. Oh Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
If I put a period, it's not so friendly. If
there's no punctuation.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
You're drivinge Yeah, you to hell? Are we do? We
have some corners.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
I have a correction corner, okay, which I kind of
love because it's I think it's hilarious. But last week
in our very in a very special episode, Yeah, in
the breakdown episode and the breakdown wheneverything went wrong when
when the grid started to sizzle yep, and in the
beginning and now it's fully a flame. Yeah, and in
twenty fifty when it's completely down, this won't matter.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
But I said that the moment I saw.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
What I meant was the moment on TV on Tuesday
night when I saw Rachel Maddow's face fall, I was like, Oh,
we're fucked, yes, But I instead I said An Maddox,
which is a girlfriend of mine who's like super straight enough,
someone you know in real wh totally it's.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Like a friend of mine who's a comedian. She's super funny,
like she's great.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
But I was just like, I saw Anne mad and
madaw maddox and said, I was just like, man, when
I saw Ann Maddox's face, that's really well.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
I haven't seen her in a while. So that's not
what happened.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Somebody actually tweeted to us and it was just the
with the quotes surrounded of you saying when you kept
saying done marrow.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
Oh that's another correction.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
That's I don't know if that's correction corner as much
as it's like stroke corner.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
It's we should have stroke out corner, because it's it
happens constantly, and when you were doing it it sounded
right to me.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Every time.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
That scares me because A I wasn't drinking, you know,
that was your mistake.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
I can't fund that was the problem.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I said, I said become a I was meaning to say,
become a bone marrow donor, but twice in a row
I said don't marrow, and I didn't. I would have
kept going if you hadn't said and you said don't marrow,
and I.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Was like, yeah, I would. I didn't even notice.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
It's and those are the kind of things I feel
like such a It makes me feel like an asshole.
But I know that people listening are like, but that
just happened like it would. It drives me crazy when
I when I listened to vodcasts and something happens and
then your brain explodes because nobody says anything about it,
or it feels like people don't notice.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I want to be called out on my shit all
the time, okay. I want to be fucking imperfect and
okay with it. Yes, same here, me too.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
I mean I think we're pretty good about that about
being imperfect, well, being imperfect and mentioning it.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
We are. I think we do it. We do it
well well because I trust you.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
I know that when you mention it to me, you're
just it's not because you're trying to like, yeah, make
me feel small, You're just like here's what's actually happened.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
Good personalities.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I know.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
That's why the other day when you told you called
me out on saying the word fucking all the time,
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
I know you didn't mean it like that.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Oh okay, oh you did it if I did, like
but I know intention, you know intention?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Okay, good, very well, it's good. This is we're really
building a bridge of lover.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
We are, it feels, I mean, we need.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
It now now more than times now, I mean twenty
sixteen now more than ever, now more than ever. I
have a this is a this is a very official
corrections corner that I really like. Okay, and it's from Milo.
I don't know if I'm assuming Milo is a man,

(07:29):
and it's I love this okay. So it's misuse of
the word psychotic. Oh okay, hello, Karen and Georgia. I'm
a big fan of my favorite murder. But one thing
that I have noticed is a misuse slash abuse of
the word psychotic. This is all me because I love
My mom was a psychiatric nurse, right, so I use
a lot of the terminology that she used to throw around.

(07:50):
But she knew what it meant, and I don't, well
when you.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
See you say things psychopath, he was you know, he
was a psycho whatever.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Right, Yeah, it's in our vernacular, but I like I
like hearing this me too. Okay, so ready, psychopathy, socios sociopathy.
I don't know how you pronounce that one is different
from psychosis. People suffering from psychosis are actually less likely
to commit violent crime than the general public, and are
actually more likely to have violent crime committed against them.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
That's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
While there are those who have mood disorders or display
psychotic behavior that do commit violent crime, like Richard Chase
Vincent Lee, who I don't know who that is and
now must know l I, the ways we judge them
should be different than the ways we judge people who
have more awareness for the crimes that they commit. That's

(08:40):
all I wanted to say. Thank you for your awesome podcast, Milo.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Thanks Milo. Milo.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
First of all, I hope that this is true and
that you are some kind of psychopath. Milo, you are
such a psychopapla as sending that, No, you know that
you're qualified in some way, but you're telling us this
from a place of education.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
I mean, we'll just take ideas. I'm sure it's correct.
I guess we'll have to double check it. I like
I like hearing that.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Remember when, Remember when, like it was like twenty five
percent of people are a psychopaths.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
And then you're like corrections quarter, it's only one quarter.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yes, Yeah, I get intimidated by numbers. They're scary, but
I love psychological terminology. Also, there was somebody that wrote to.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
Us that that.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Uh was offended by something.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
They were offended by.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
They were offended by something, but it was a thing
where uh it was it was almost just like a
little it's a note to be careful of how we
are judgmental when people have a mental illness.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
I was just going to say that because we just
read a hometown story where they said that someone was
found out that they were bipolar, and I immediately didn't
want to say what they were because because that's not
an indication that you're going to be a murderer or
that you're well, you mentally ill, but that you're you know,
dangerous or Yeah, it just doesn't need the stigma.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
I know people who are bipolar and they're very awesome people. Right.
I don't I hate unless it's something extreme and and clear.
I don't want to say that that person is has
this mental illness.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, And and I think as being conversational and reading stories,
and especially when we're talking about killers or serial killers,
we can be we can play it very fast and
loose with judgments about them because we feel like, well,
they're clearly a villain, right. But the point that this
person was making was a little bit more like, you know,
just not everybody that has a mental disorder is a killer,

(10:46):
and that makes people if you hear the thing that
you have. But but it's as if like that's everybody.
We never want to make anybody feel like that now.
Quite the opposite, especially with.

Speaker 3 (10:55):
Mental with mental illness and disorders, which were very big
on like fucking everyone has them and some people treat
them and some don't. And you shouldn't be scared to
treat them because you found out that a fucking serial
killer has it. I don't want to, Yeah, or like
it's just on this podcast. We're not judging you. No,
that's not what we try are trying to do, and
we'll try to be careful about it. We're judging murderers.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, we get to pick and choose, so we judge
and we'll adjust it weekly.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Based on how much feedback we get on Twitter. Just
always know we're good people. We're the best people.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Always give us the benefit of it out, even if
we're being insanely affect you're probably wrong, not a I
just want to clear that.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Such an official corrections corner this week.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
So good, so maddox shout out shots and maddox, you're
doing such a great job helping us through our political times.
What euse oh shirt? There's new shirts up? Oh yeah,
I love that new shirt. Oh yeah, okay, good. Fuck politeness,
Fuck politeness. And then it says murdering undernything it says
my favorite murder unernyathing.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Oh my favorite. It just looks like kind of looks
like the Murderino design. Sure, it's cool, we were talking
about this earlier. Fuck politeness.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
But also in these very difficult times, be careful of
the people around you, be sensitive and try to connect
on a human level in a way that you normally don't.
Maybe I think it's super important that people around you
understand that you care about them. Yeah, and if you

(12:24):
are the kind of person who doesn't care about people,
do your thing. But I just want to underline that
fuck politeness in our world means don't sacrifice yourself on
the altar of politeness, because that could be dangerous for you.
But it also it does not mean fuck that people
around you in general, especially now, especially now, now is

(12:46):
the time to be even more kind of caring and connected.
Just don't like let people follow you to your car
and shit. It's that we're talking safety versus you know,
when you're talking to the person at Starbucks, be nicer
than you normally would be because everyone's freaked out.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
But if you're being intimidated and you're scared of something,
you know, it's a kind of a trust your gut
type of type of saying.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Yeah, you guys know what we're talking about. But I know.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
There's also underliner, there's the mister Rogers quote of you
know how his mom always said, look for the helpers
in any bad situation, look for the helpers.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Well, how about let's be helpers. Be helpers exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, speaking of being helpers, this is my favorite thing
that's happened to me in a while. So I'm no
brag in the Writer's Guild of America. Look wait, I've
been waiting to lord this over you for a while.
This whole time, I've been talking to a Writer's Guild number. So,
in the Writer's Guild they have this thing where, no,

(13:44):
I do think.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
It's really cool though, by the way, they just won't
to say that. But I'm in the Writer's I mean,
in the Writer's Guild is a fucking cool thing. Oh.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Thanks, No, I'm glad I mentioned it.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
No, but they they do this thing where normally in
every other like entertainment union, they send you a thing
that says, oh, you know, the your yearly dues are
one hundred and six or whatever. But because it's writers
and most of us are freelance, they base your dues
on based on how much money you made that year,
which is per quarter, which is based on It's so impossible.

(14:14):
The second I start thinking about it, I shut down
and like go and sit in front of the TV
like in protest, you big old I can't. I can't.
It's like math, it's all the things I hate. I
get overwhelmed. So I have been in arrears and my
dues at the WG and.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
What in aarrears, Yeah, you texted me that today and
I don't know what that means.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Oh, it just means you haven't paid your dues, and
you can't. If you do it long enough, they suspend
your your membership and then you can't work.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
So that's how I can't my Sparklets membership is I'm
overdue on that.

Speaker 4 (14:47):
That's why you saw all those empty bottles when you
walked up my staff.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Very careful. You don't want to get into arrears with
the Sparklets. Guy, I'm in arrearsk he will kick you
in the arrears. So such a dad joke.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
I love to a joke. So of.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
I have a lot of these things in my life
right now, but one of them is this the dues
that I don't know how to figure out how much
I need to send, and I won't take the time
like everybody else does to sit down and do it
because I think I'm better than other people on special,
aren't you a little bit? No, So it's a thing
that's hanging over my head. I get a letter today

(15:25):
and I'm like, you have to open this, you have
to face this. So I read the letter and the
letter tells me exactly how much I owe. And I'm like, oh, oh,
this is the letter, this is what I need, this
is exactly it. And I read the rest of the
letter and it's like, please send it in a timely fashion.
It's just a for It looks like a form letter
except for it has my amount in it and the

(15:46):
sign office, Stay sexy, don't get murdered.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
Fuck yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
So my friend at the WGA, who works in the
dues department and who sends out these letters all the time,
you bestie, helped me in a way that she will
never know how much.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
But if she's actually just been using that sign off
for decades.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
And she's going to sue us, and this first.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Time it actually hits someone who was who wasn't like.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Finally someone could appreciate it. It was You'll never know
how much.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
That helped me. It's such a little wink to you.
It's such a compliment, I know.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
But then also it's like a person was like, I'll
take care of that.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
This ship this podcast, man, I mean, she's not paying
my dues. No, let's be but that's the real thing.
She should. You're thousands and thousands of.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
This podcast, and I think after last week's episode that
they feel really good about the post election episode and
all of our friends and all of our friends who
have been like I needed that, and I think we
I think we did what we were supposed to do,
which was in like a fucking overtly crazy political po
but a like here's the here's the general mood we're in,

(17:04):
and here's what we can do.

Speaker 4 (17:06):
Which was awesome.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
It just made me flash on though, our reviews for
the sugar free gummy Bears and then for the banner.
Now people are posting other reviews and I read the one.
I don't have the name, but it's for the vitamin
D milk. No, and it is. It's called like something
Farms Vitamin D Milk. And they've they've posted on the

(17:30):
Facebook page, but it's you can find it. It's Amazon reviews.
It's the funniest fuck, just like it's like a jug
of milk. It's a jug of milk. But people are
writing it like have you guys poured this over dry cereal?
It's awesome. I mean, you have to read it. It's
some of them are really short. One lady wrote this
big long story. It's the funniest thing.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
I feel like, I feel like what happened last week
was what was supposed to happen, for sure, really happy
with it. And people have been so fucking kind and cool.
I know, not on your tw it are probably or
our Twitter is different.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
We know it's a big garbage can of human waste,
those human waste, but on Instagram and everywhere else people.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
I mean, that's the thing about this fucking podcast is
like it makes me to cry. I might cry. Go ahead,
this is me crying, is right, Chap, You're going to
do a dry cry. That's basically what I do because
I'm dead inside. But if I warrant, I'd be alive
from murderinos Oh. And also over the weekend, I went

(18:30):
to Vince's. We went to this like charity event and
they have these like free bracelets where you can you
you pick a word and they and they stamp it
into this metal and it's like your word of them.
They said to me, like, what's your word of intention
that every day you want to look at, you know,
like breathe or like you.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Know, it's like one of those like dreams I intend
to breathe today, like no I will.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
You know, Tho's like rocks that you get at, like
fucking bed bath and beyond, say like dream, love, bid
happy whatever the fuck? It sounded just just know. It
just sounded a little bit like you said, dream blood.
That's what I got with it. No, I was like, okay,
uh can I get SSDGF So I haven't I have

(19:14):
one of these that's stay sex.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
You don't get murdered initial, right, And.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
I want to give it to someone at the Chicago
Podcast Festival, right, I need to give you someone.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, just you mean someone.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, you could throw it, you could pick someone, you
could slip into their pocket and that you they never see.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
That's fun.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
That's a fun way, right.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
I just want to And I know it's such a
fucking trivial, stupid thing, but I just think it's fucking.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Hilarious that she was like okay and like wrote it
down and like didn't know what it was.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well, and it kind of seems like it's shorthand for
some kind of sato masochistic sexual situation, doesn't.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
It ssb ssb b d b d L.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
I have this, I got my this is We can
cut this because this is boring, but I'm still.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Gonna say it. I had my Goodbye skippers.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
I had my DNA tested on twenty three and meters,
which is like this crazy thing that you get your
DNA tested, tells you where you're from, what percentage, and
it also tells you what what DNA abnormalities you have.
And the one I have, the initials basically look like motherfucker.
Really it's empty hf R or some shit, and it

(20:21):
just looks like motherfucker, and it just means you're going
to die in a year. It really basically makes that abnormality.
You're really fucked, like you can't, you fucker. It's totally fucked.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
That's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
You should have had that on a bracelet. It's me
the one with MHKA.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
It's like when you what's the like, do not resuscitate bracelet? Motherfucker,
do not recitate. Just don't just leave it. It's just
as I'm good, I'm not you know what, if I'm
down here, leave me here.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
My donor sticker on my license just says just take it.
It's like I don't even care if I'm unconscious or not.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
You know what, you can have it. So I needs
it more than I do. I don't need this liver,
like I really just sit around all day. So just
fucking date. Give it to someone. Just give it to
someone with a degree in something someone who's really.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Drying, and we are back. Did you have any idea
that your friend Anne Maddox would go on to become
such a reality TV superstar?

Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's right. So she was Tom Sandoval's assistant in vander
Pump Rules Now and she became Ariana Maddox's assistant. I
don't think there's any relation there, Okay, but yeah, she's
like a hit and I'm so happy for her. It's
like she deserves all of it. She's the sweetest person.
So I love that I fucking just randomly brought her
up in twenty sixteen and now it's like, yeah, everyone

(21:46):
knows her.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Yes, it's the best.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Also, just the idea of your mistaking her for Rachel
Maddow is the is such a one of those flips
that I do where I'm like it kind of sounds
the same.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, and she does have a podcast too. I should
shout out called we signed an Nda.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
Hilarious all the assistants, right.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, that celebrity assistant world such a good idea. Yeah,
she's great.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
What do they do do they just it's like celebrity one,
two and three.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
I'll listen to you.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, yeah, Okay, So then we also talk about twenty
three and Me, which I just deleted completely recently. You two,
I was never on it. You were never on it.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I'm one of those people that I never got Alexa
or Siri.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I am as paranoid and as kind of like stay
away from me as possible, so any of that stuff.
When it first came out, I was like, I don't
care who I'm related to.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
I am literally the opposite. Or just like take all
of my information and tell me what's wrong with me? Please?
Oh you want me to put my like blood works
info into this so you can tell me how I
can fix myself.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Sure, but don't you think it is because I lived
ten years longer with no Internet than you. Right, it
was not reality for me until my early twenties.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Right, that totally makes sense.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
So it's kind of just like, don't go into that room.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, well you're right because twenty three and Meter filed
for bankruptcy back in March, that's right, So after having
a huge data breach. So now yeah, take your take
your info down. You can download your info so you
always have it, yeah, like your blood work and stuff.
But then like shut it down, but I mean they
still have it anyway, So they have it. Don't worry
about it.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
That's gonna be for the future Blade Runner world where
there's like a machine walking around with your skin on
it or whatever.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Sorry, I could be cloned so easily, but why would
you like what nobody wants.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
You're gonna find out.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
I mean, go ahead, She's gonna be a mess.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
But then what if what if you got cloned and
like they pick you as you're the future waitress of
every restaurant or whatever.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
I mean, what if you get.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Picked I'd eat there. She's a good waitress.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
She's funny and sassy.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, but like also she does her sidework and she
still close and be efficient and.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
Sell your coat, all the things you know from a waitress.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
That's right, you little bumped every now and then when
you need it. All right, Well, should we get into
your story your first episode?

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah. This is when I was going back through this story,
I was just like.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Wow, I think it's one of the last child murder
death of children. Like I know I did more in
the future, but it's that thing where it gave me
that sense of like if.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
You could track my the lack of.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Interest or the reduced interest when you get to a
story like this where you're like, what happened, that's crazy,
and then when you actually hear it and the reality
of what happened that day is so tragic and dark
and sad that it's like, oh, that's right. Like when
you get to the end of many of these stories,
you're just like, this is such a heavy.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, this is a child, an innocent child who had
no choice in the matter, and it's yeah, I know
you don't like to do those. Yeah. I don't either,
but I do that more than you. Two. Yeah, well,
let's get into it. This is Karen's story about the
International Dunes Hotel murder suicide.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
All right, can I just do my murder? I hate it? Yeah,
I go. Why do you want to keep skipping? Just
don't come back, skip all the way over? I okay,
this will be I'll just skim this. I'll tear some concepts. No,
this was Here's here's the long and short of it.

(25:31):
I am doing the hometown murder that William sent in
that I balked on because I thought that was so
unfair of me that someone I would have been so
livid if I was listening to this podcast, gave a
shit about it, heard my name, they started to do it,
and they were just like no, and then they were
like throwing children.

Speaker 4 (25:51):
Nope bye. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
So so William, first of all, my many and thorough
apologies for jerking you around. But the thing is that
once you get into it, it's not like anything saves it.
It's not like it gets better. It doesn't have a
different ending or like there's not cool facts. You were correct,

(26:14):
I was correct, but I'm going to power through it.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Good for you. Sounds like life, right, You just gotta
buckle down.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
You're correct, but you just gotta fucking you just gotta
you just gotta say the hideous facts, and the hideous
facts are this that.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
Basically, uh this this It took place.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
On August fourth of nineteen seventy eight, So set the tone.
We're in Salt Lake City. It's nineteen seventy eight. So
you got you got a lot of brown, you got
a lot of corduroy, a lot of blondes.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Actually, do you think there are a lot of sideburns?
Are now? I think there are plenty of sideburns.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think there's blonde hair with brown sideburns, which is
a thing that only happened back then.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
It doesn't happen anymore. Good.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Remember Stephen Steve was there. He knows Stephen and Ellis
we're traveling band.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
So there was now, as many people know, but Salt
Lake City is uh predominantly Mormon. I mean the whole
state is very Mormon, Salt Lake City more so. And
there was a man. This man is named Bruce Longo,
and he has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus

(27:28):
Christ of the Latter day Saints because he's too rock
and roll.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
If you're too rock and roll for the fucking Church
of Latter Day Science.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
If your ideas are too big and bold and you
get excommunicated, something's going on. Because those are people that like,
they like a group, they like, they like their religion.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
They want people in it big and bold. Is there
saying I don't know what's they're saying.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, I think it's big and bolding, big and bold
and read all over and bold in a couple of tablets.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
That's us the yeld Yes, I can't wait to see that.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Mean, So, Bruce Longo he got excommunicated, and so he
started his own cult essentially what you do when you
get kicked out of a thing.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, that's right, you splinter off, you start your own,
you grow a ponytail, you gain two hundred pounds, and
you fucking act like the cult leader that you are.
He also changed his name to uh Emmanuel David, which
is a thoroughly religious sounding name, and the I can

(28:38):
never find a name of the cult that he started.
But what it was was everybody in the cult had
the last name David, so that's it was like they
didn't put together you know, twenty five Davids or any
kind of like catchy five Davids.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
That's our band name there it is, that's our punk
band name, punk rock David's.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
But uh, But basically he got it was mostly his
family members and a couple friends, and they got into it,
and he apparently was like all cult leaders.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
He's charismatic, he's very engaging.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
He has a ponytail. He has a ponytail. He's kind
of large, and he gives people a reason. You know,
he's like a guide.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
Why would that be to have that? To believe in
a thing? Right now?

Speaker 2 (29:26):
If I could meet a three hundred pound man with
a ponytail, that told me what was what goodbye? I
would quit this podcast. I would fucking walk on you both.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
Finish because I just want you to keep going.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
You new I was just like, please, didn't even know
what I was going to say.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Not interrupt this.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
You have to finish the sentence mail at Karen at
uh No.

Speaker 4 (29:54):
I'm also I like a bigger man. Don't worry.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Don't worry that I'm being sarcastic right now for sure, hoytail,
No fucking way.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
What do you do you iguana dudes? Stop it? Dude?
Did you say, are you an iguana? Dude? Are you
an iguana dude? You have the guys who are hanging
out at coffee shops.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
In the nineties with an iguana, your iguana dude?

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yes, okay, I got them, and they're everywhere all right,
So essentially he uh. They would travel all around. They
were kind of nomadic, and they would live in hotels
and they would stay in these hotels and then when
they would go to leave, like a couple months later,
they would just skip out on the bill.

Speaker 4 (30:36):
And before credit cards existed, I think, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
And that must have been it. Yeah, seventy eight, I
think there were credit cards. This was back when women
weren't allowed to have their own credits.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Shut your fucking face. Yeah, I swear to God.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
I remember when my mom had credit cards and when
she'd go to a place, they had to look her
name up in a fucking like Yellow Pages book.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Oh like visa. Oh there's your name.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
To make sure it's legit, just to like charge it.
So different back then. Maybe I missed remembering. Are you
thinking of the phone book?

Speaker 4 (31:04):
They would look in a phone book. Then they'd call
her and be like, is this your criticus, like two
weeks ago. So I'm probably wrong. Sorry, go on.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
So you know, among the things that this group did
was they made a large sword for him, Emmanuel David.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
They made a large sword. Fact, it's so casual. Among
the things is that they prayed to you know, the
different God. Nope, No, they made a big sword, got it.
And he believed he was declaring now that he was God.
He thought he was God, Jesus Christ and the Holy
Spirit all in one. Hey, red flag, you can be one,

(31:46):
maybe two. You can't be every spurrito. It's just like
on breakfast, I'm a burrito. Throw it in there everything. Hey,
how about some sour cream.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
So with his sword, he promised to lop off heads
of thousands. So we're not This isn't a positive cult.
This isn't like Sephora. This is bad news. He didn't
give free samples.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
He didn't call you muffin when you went in there.
That's a true story. It happened to me one time.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Okay. So, so the.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Police and the Mormon Church were keeping an eye on
Emmanuel David and his group because he would show up
with his followers at Temple Square in Salt Lake City
and they wouldn't be violent, there would never be arrests.
But he, you know, he was there to like tell
everybody that he was the real deal. He was a presence. Yeah,

(32:40):
And of course he probably brought that sword and then
he what he would do is he would separate the
men in the group from their wives and children, send
them off to different cities, give them some kind of
a task, like you you know, you have to go
off and preach in Nebraska or whatever, and then he
would keep all the women and children around him. Cult

(33:02):
leaders love that. That's their big thing, is like I'm
everybody's daddy. So from seventy five to seventy six. He
lived at the Red Lion Inn in Missoula, Montana, while
his his followers were working elsewhere working quotes air quotes.

Speaker 4 (33:24):
But then he had a vision.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
He decided that the followers he had sent away were
actually are archangels, and he renamed the Michael, Raphael and Gabriel.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Andel.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Then he told them that he believed the federal government
was about to collapse.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
And was he wrong. I mean he was early, that's all.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
And he promised that he was going to save the
republican become its new leader.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Hey hey, so he told them to sell.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Now this is funny because I didn't set this up
because I'm reading from the middle of the page.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
He told them to sell their karate studio. What I forgot,
I skipped a paragraph and now I've I've misled over.
You did the thing that every cult leader does, and
every releader said, he says, sell your karate studios.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
They always try to get you away from your karate studio.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
I'm sorry, Chip Chop, karate studio will not be sold.
You got to stand by that karate studio, Chip Chop,
that was the first and you did karate hands while
you said chip, chip, and a chop. Basically Steven's on
the ground. So essentially, he was basically saying, you have
to dedicate your life to me. You have these other

(34:44):
you have there, you have real jobs.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
You're kind of still trying to hold it down in
normal society. Break ties and give me the money, go
to work in other cities.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
And later days latter days.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
And I'm sorry, did you but that was the first
of that Later days though that I was like, latter days,
that's right, later days, latter days, I see.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
And then you put them together, you see that.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
But first you held your finger up like you had
a great secret to tell me.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
Because I couldn't listen anymore. Oh no, I can't listen.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
No, it was good. Look, okay, I'm this is just all.
A year later, he gets the archangels to come back,
and he says that he has found the tablets that
the Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith claimed to have found
and read that's Joseph Smith them.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
Well, he says he found them.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
So once they get back to Salt Lake, he doesn't
have tablets, but when they all meet together, he says,
I am the tablets. Now we're right now we're into
the bad. Imagine the feeling in your stomach. You're one
of those.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
Archangels, like you're in it, you're you're loving it.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
And then suddenly it's like, dude, you're what You're not tablets,
that's not a thing.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
This isn't good.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
You just like you've crossed the line of things. I
can believe, yes, but not.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
But once you're in, you're in and you have to
kind of keep on playing along because you've already grown
out your matching ponytail or whatever they had to do.

Speaker 4 (36:14):
I can't find any information about this g cult.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
You're just like, oh, I did this thing, and I
thought this was correct, and so I have to keep
going with it otherwise.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Well, and a lot of them were his family members,
so they were like, we love him and he we
believe in all his promises. They said, he's not a
bad guy, it's just his ponytail is bad.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
So all right, here's the long on.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
The short of it is, the government is investigating this
guy because they keep these He is being investigated for
wire fraud and other frauds, assorted frauds.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
It's like an seize candy boxer fraud. He's dark chocolate
with almonds with no caramel.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
Happy. This is the grossest fraud I could have got. Grossest.
Where's the Bardo bar? What's the one you can't have?
The Sea's candy box?

Speaker 3 (37:07):
I don't like that one. But I also, oh the nugat.
You don't like nugga, the white nugat with the nut,
with the chewing, with the chewing and and the eating.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Yes, I hate it.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
No, forrilla, it's too much chewing. It's a lot of chewing. Nugat,
fuck yourself, nugat, and I disagree.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I'm as new as nugats that compatriot yourself.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yes or no?

Speaker 4 (37:30):
Yes? Oh, okay, we're opposite. We shall split. We are
on opposite. We were made for each other. We're made
for each other, honey, except for I can't eat her anymore.
One fact.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
So, in all of the ways he's broke broken the law,
in all of the mint patty ways, and all of
the molasses chip ways, he's done it all.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
And so what he does.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
So they've been living in the International Dunes Hotel in
Salt Lake City for a year. This is a ninety
dollars a day hotel. They are living in a suite.
It's him and his wife Rebecca.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Yes or no?

Speaker 4 (38:14):
When you sorry?

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Rated that would have sounded amazing, right, living in a hotel. Yes,
I get to live in a hotel.

Speaker 4 (38:19):
It still sounds amazing. That's my favorite. I've been in
hotels too many times, and I just they make me sad.
They make me so happy. I do love hotel.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
I run into the bathroom immediately because I want to
see the bathroom set up.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Oh okay, I bet you meant like because you had
to use it. I just run in there.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
It's a pee from excitement. No, I guess you're right, Yeah,
you're right. Well here, My thing is they're usually very quiet. Yeah,
and the beds are cushy and you can just get
into them and watch TV.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
It sounds like my house.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Excuse I know, but when I do that at my house,
which I do a lot, I always feel bad.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Oh, in a hotel, it's like one request a room
that's not by the elevators.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
They're so travel tip.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Good tip on Sorry no, no, So they've been so
they've been living in this big hotel in Salt Lake City,
the whole family. So he has uh, Emmanuel has a
wife named Rachel and and they have six children, Rebecca

(39:22):
who's five, David who's six, Joseph who's eight, Deborah who's nine,
Joe Joe Shawshaw, Joe Shaha who's ten, and Rachel Nah
it's j O s h a h a like Joe Haha.

Speaker 4 (39:39):
Aren't those names from VC Andrews book? Some book? It's
a book that they're from kind of. It's a book
that they're from.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
We see Andrews, Rachel who's fourteen is the oldest, and
then Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
Who is thirteen.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
So uh, they're all living in this hotel the government's
circling and so Emmanuel borrows this truck from one of
the people whose last name is also David. He drives
up to a canyon and commits suicide by putting a
hose from the exhaust pipe into the truck cab.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
What a fucking dick.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
I mean, it is quite selfish because this family that
he has, by all reports of the people that worked
at this hotel and people that were anywhere around this family,
they completely depended on him. They were like and they
were also a loner family. So they aside from the
rest of the cult, which was also mostly their family,

(40:38):
they didn't talk to people, they didn't interact, and the
people that worked in this hotel said that the children
were very quiet. They didn't speak unless their father said
they could speak, and they didn't use the pool, they
didn't like, they were not loud, they didn't giggle, and
they didn't go to school. They were taught in the
hotel room by the parents. So they didn't go to
the Caribbean and get their groove back. I bet nope,

(40:59):
this is there's gonna be no grooves getting gotten backed
by the end of this, quite the opposite. So he
kills himself because basically it's like the jig is up
and you can't just I'm sorry, you just can't stay
at hotels and then.

Speaker 4 (41:14):
Leave what he we have in fine if he had
paid the bill, no, because there was other fraud.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's just that the articles I was on murder Pedia
for the most part on this and everything is pretty vague,
and it sounds like it's like it's like he he
was kind of a problem guy, but he left it
like city, but he left this trail and it was
basically like, here's how we can get him.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Okay, So it's just unpaid bills and wire fraud al
capone get him on tax evasion.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
That's right, I think, okay, And also I think he
really was ripping these people off when they would join
his cult. He was like, you know, it's like, sell
your karate studio, give me the money, and you go
to Missouli, Montana to spread the word. So they're trying
to get chopped get him. It's the old chip chop,
all right. So when Rachel finds out that her husband

(42:04):
kills himself, she tells the cops, well, we don't have
any money. I don't have money to pay for the funeral.
They realize something's terribly wrong. And three days later, on
the morning of August fourth, they were staying at the
suite on the eleventh floor of the International A Dunce hotel,

(42:27):
and she walked her children out onto the patio and
either through or pushed all of her children off of
the eleventh floor of this hotel. So there were people
standing on the street below and screaming at her. They
so one kid hits and they're like, oh my god,

(42:49):
and they think at first they think it's like an accident,
and then it's six children. So it just keeps happening
and they're screaming. They're all screaming at her, and U
I mean that's part. Yeah, this is why I didn't
want to read it before. But I mean, it's that
kind of all I can think of is those people
who were you know, there's pedestrians, there's there were guys

(43:12):
that were like maintenance guys that were fixing the road
or something. Who there's a truck driver. Oh yeah, that's
so traumatic. And but and they she's throwing off the
little kids and the older ones are doing it voluntarily,
so it is like a horror movie.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
And then at the end they all start yelling for
her to jump out, Like they go through so much
seeing this and witnessing it and freaking out that they
get really angry.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
They can't feel good about that too, you know, like
they have PTSD, but they also have to live with
that and they and that's not who most of us
think we are.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
But I understand why at that point you're like fuck.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
You, because they're also down where the kids are hitting
and they can't do anything.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
Yes, they're completely powerless. It's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
And the thing was they didn't have to even yell
that because that was her plan anyway, and then she
jumped off Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 (44:12):
All of her children.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Died except for one, and it was Elizabeth, who was thirteen,
and she had severe brain injury and she was in
a hospital. They thought she wasn't going to live, but
then she did and she got better, you know enough.
They put her in a foster home, and then when

(44:36):
she turned eighteen, she went back and lived with her
uncle who was still in the cult. So the Davids
were still an existing religious group Jesus and she lives
with them now. Still believes that her father is going
to come back from the dead. She still believes her
father is God, and believes that everything that happened was

(44:58):
exactly what would have happened, and says, it's what they.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
All want it. Let's go break her out right now.
She wants to be there, now, let's set her free.
She I know, I just don't try.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
It's it's a solution that won't work. It's awful, but
you're just trying to do something, and I appreciate it. Yeah,
it's it's such a horrible story. So it's a terrible story.
It's terrible. The craziest thing is now they change the
name to the Shiloh Inn. The hotel is still there.
You can go there when we.

Speaker 4 (45:31):
Do a live show in Utah. I guess where we're staying.
Not there, not fucking there people.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
There are people that go there and stay on the
eleventh floor intentionally, and there have been reports of uh
hearing laughter coming from the first floor pool area when
no one's around.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
But we know they weren't.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
They'd never swam, right, But still maybe it's the idea
of they get to have fun now good ghosts as
well as a pinball machine in the game room that
spontaneously turns on and starts playing.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
Don't they do that though?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Uh, to show you how to play? Like that's right,
they go into the demo mode. Yeah, but I believe
in ghosts, but it's ghosts, but it actually goes to
but it's this one time, this one time, and uh, yeah,
people just hear voices and they A lot of people
think that this place is haunted. What I think is

(46:29):
pretty interesting is Danny Elfman uh has always been a
frequent visitor of this hotel.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
Danny Elfman mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
It's he first started going in nineteen eighty four, right, yep,
he was touring with Oingo Boingo, and he heard the
story and stayed on the eleventh floor. He always stays
on the eleventh floor. What he he wrote, dead Man's
Party inspired inspired that hotel.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
They have a great old movie if you can find it,
called The Forbidden Zone, made by Owe Goblanco in the eighties.
That's creepy and fucked up, and I wonder if maybe
it's connected or inspired by Sure. Also, it's believed that
he was so fond of his young friends, oh, because
he had ghost experiences when he was staying there. Dude,
So that's it, Like he would go there intentionally.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I trust a fucking elfman. You trust helfman. I mean
he wrote the Simpsons theme. Yeah, come on, Yeah, he
would go to stay there, and he stayed there while
he composed the music and lyrics for the Night Nightmare
before Christmas.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Fuck.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Yeah, that's amazing. You just dropped your paper.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
I dropped it as if to say, at least there
was one good thing in that story that Yeah, there's that.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
So William. We owe this all to William.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
This was his this was his hometown murder originally, and
it got kicked all the way up to full a
full grown.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
T Bedilliam stopped listening and fucking I went on a
murder spree when you didn't finish. He was so angry,
he was so mad at me, he was so pissed. Thanks,
Thanks William.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
That was amazing.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
All right, we're back, Karen.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Any case updates, No case updates, but definitely corrections of course,
So there were altogether seven children, not six children. That
was a copy paste error for my of course, very
professional and extensive research that I did forty five minutes
before we used to record. And also one of the
David children, I pronounced his name very strangely. It was

(48:38):
actually Joshua, so it was either like a misspelling or whatever.
But also the name of the surviving daughter was not Elizabeth.
I'm not going to say her name. She is, it's
unclear where she lives now, and she went through such
a horrible thing, you know. Like On a slightly brighter note,
Iguana Dudes of episode one sixty three is covered on

(49:02):
MFM animated obviously titled Iguanas and Samurai Swords, So you
can go watch that on the YouTube pageutube dot com
slash exactly right media.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
We just love those iguana guys, don't we We love to.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Reference them there. You know, they take up a very
large footprint in our culture because they're out on the
sidewalk showing off their lizards.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, and I want and it is it just a
nineties thing? I don't know or eighties nineties. It feels
like a specific nineties thing for sure.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
So yes, it was a real before the internet and phones.
It was a great way to break the ice when
you were just kind of standing outside of a restaurant somewhere.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Right.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Hey, man, I like your go tea and you're Iguana,
and you're Iguana's go tea.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
Yeah, let's talk about all this facial hair.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
So much to talk about. Also, I want to say, Oh,
during the original story, I asked if the Church of
Latter day Saints has a catchphrase like just do it
or I'm loving it, which I can't believe. I said
that so funny, And it turns out, well, no organized
religion has. In the thing she'll catch phrase.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
Wait, but you're like what I thought Catholics was? Amen?

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Okay, ours is like the chosen Ones, bitches. The LDS
Church commonly uses the phrase choose the right, especially with
youth groups, but I think later days Latter Days way
better because maybe some of my best work.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Ever, Like, I think you've done some of your most
brilliant comedy around the Church of Latter day Saints wordplay,
and I don't know why, but isn't that livid lovet
learn to Levitate? Wasn't that off of some story we
were telling about a Mormon?

Speaker 1 (50:33):
No, I think it was my birthday and you were like,
what are you going to do this year? Georgia? Nay,
but there's some Mormon stuff going on for me for
sure that I you know, I'm just I take it
so lightly. Were the Mormon religion? I really do.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
You'll regret that later in your twenty three and meters
clone has to work for all Mormons.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
I mean where I grew up, literally we were the
only Jewish family and there was one Mormon family and
that was like it so like, I don't have a
lot of experience there.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Everyone else was bright orange Christian.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Everyone else wasps wow osspuspy.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I was going to say, we have and it's such
a I think, an indicator of what we do and
how we do it. One of the most horrible stories,
of course we've ever talked about. Truly though the sidebar
jokes some of the funniest we've been conversationally. I think
I was laughing at loud bars, like, oh, I get
white people like us. I get, I get it because

(51:28):
we're actually get why.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Were they were mad a little? The people who didn't
like us were mad, of course, but also they're wrong,
so it's okay. But yeah, we were a lot more
lighthearted during the stories back then than we are now.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yes, we thought the room that we were in had
two people in it, and the room that we were
in had at that time, I believe forty.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Million people in it.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
So we were going to get some detractors and some
people who like touristed in and said you have no right,
and they're right.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
They were right. Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, they choose the right.
They're like Mormons anyway.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Yeah, so now let's get into Georgia's story, the tile
and all poisonings.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
Oo. What are my favorites, Karen, Yes, let's go back
to Chicago, Okay, which we're going to next week in
nineteen eighty two. Metropolitan metropolitan area, which is such an
eighties term, isn't it. I don't know why metropolitan makes

(52:26):
It's all the buildings are all staggered.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Yeah, and it's like it expands upon it. Whatever the fuck.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
This is the time before tamperproof seals and pills were
sold with just a cotton ball tucked underneath the wood.
So you went and bought aspirin or whatever the fuck,
and you just opened it and maybe it had been
opened before, and maybe it hadn't.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
There was no childproofing on as you opened it, and
there was no silver foil none. You could open it
and then do whatever you wanted and close it back up.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
I guess baby, if you were old, babies could open it. Yeah,
this is this is the This is eighty two.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
So it's before there were like a child one of
the things where they can't open the drawers and stuff.
You have to child proof your home and child baby. Yeah, yeah,
this is before that. Yeah, when the eighties were like
just eat it all.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
This was when they used to sell baby knives, remember that,
where it was just like your you could get your
baby a really cute knife that they could just hold.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yes, I remember that. They still have mine. I do
you with your initials on it and two ducks. Oh
oh my god, that's the cutest bay. I have to
say my mom saved it one of my diaper pins.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
Oh yeah, you had.

Speaker 4 (53:42):
You had safety pins.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Safety pins on diapers, cloth diapers, and safety pins, grossy
and dangerous.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
The safety pin.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Itself was humongous and so sharp and cute. So the
baby wo'd be like, I want to play with that?

Speaker 4 (53:56):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
How are we?

Speaker 4 (53:58):
How did we survive? I mean, all right, so let's talk.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Let's start with I'm gonna do it's kind of a
timeline thing up because it's like one and a half
days of fucking a shit show.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Okay, So nineteen eighty two, September twenty ninth.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
The first thing to happen is that Mary Kellerman, who
is a twelve year old from Elk Grove Village, Illinois,
wakes up feeling sick. Her parents are like, you can
stay from school. They give her some tile and all
to make her feel better. She goes in the bathroom
to take it. Moments later, she collapses on the floor.
She's rushed to the hospital.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
I know, sorry, how old was she?

Speaker 3 (54:34):
She's twelve, She's exactly the same age as me. Sorry,
because I was just thinking of like, it's eighty two,
I'm twelve. I thought you've meant right now, you're to
be twelve. That's how all its happening. I did get
cartered over the weekends, did you? And I was like,

(54:55):
I know you're joking, but fuck you.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
We went to Button Mash and the guy was call
everybody else, and then he looked at me and I
just shook my head no, and he started laughing and
open the door for me.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
But it does that too, he goes.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
He like gestures a come on, dude, Yeah, I'm not
trying to How good is their food there by the way,
but mash? Oh wait didn't Oh it's good. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, No,
the place is great. She wakes up feeling sick. Sweet
Mary is pronounced dead at at nine fifty six am.
Next comes Adam Janis. He's a twenty seven year old

(55:29):
poster worker in Arlington Heights. Takes a sick day, doesn't
feel good. He picks up his kids from school, stops
on the way home at the jewel, which I guess
is a thing it's like their CV yeah, and gets
some tile and all and he says to his wife,
I'm going to take some tile and all and lay down.
A couple of minutes later comes staggering into the kitchen

(55:51):
and he dies at three point fifteen pm. At three
forty five pm, Mary quote Lynn Reiner, who's twenty seven,
is at home in Winfield. She had just given birth
to her fourth child. So she's home recuperating. She's not
feeling good, so she takes some tilan all that she
had been given and brought home from the hospital after
giving birth. This is weird shit. We'll talk about it later,

(56:18):
she yeah, So she takes those and then moving on
to five PM.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
So this woman named.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Nurse Helen Jensen, who is the badass motherfucker of the story.
She's a public health nurse for Arlington Heights. And the
Janice family. Remember earlier, Adam, who is the poster worker,
had come in. The whole the whole family, the whole
Adam family. Oh shit, else is gonna MoMA? Oh okay,

(56:55):
you know that's welcome to my life.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Else right? I mean I had pots, That's all they.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Do, I know.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Okay. So, so the whole Janie family is there.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Adam dies, and so they all go back to his
house to like to figure out what they're gonna do
and start morning and planning the funeral. And Adam's younger brother, Stanley.
He has chronic back pains. His wife, Teresa gets him
some tail and all. She comes, she gives him to
tilan all. She comes back and took to tailan all

(57:30):
as well.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
She had a headache. They both go down. Oh my god,
the brother.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
They go what are the chances they went back to
his house where he had fucking fallen.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Six thirty pm.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
In a store in Lombard, Illinois, Mary McFarlane, a thirty
one year old resident of Elmhurst, tells her coworker she's
a headache. She goes in the back room, takes a
couple of tail and all, and within minutes she hits
the floor on p Stanley Janice, who's Adam's brother from earlier,

(58:05):
is pronounced dead. Three fifteen am. Mary McFarland's pronounced dead.
Nine thirty in the morning, Mary Reiner is pronounced dead.
So everyone's fucking taking the shit and dying with an
hour's at one point fifteen Teresa Janis the wife of
Stanley dead. So at five o'clock the next day, police

(58:25):
discover the body of Paula Prince in her old Town apartment.
Old Town is the town the night before she so
she is a flight attendant the night before she lands.
She's a thirty five year old woman. She stops at
Walgreens because she has a headache to buy some chilanol.
There's a surveillance video of this and some photographs from

(58:48):
it like that you can see online. She she's not
heard from for a couple of days, so the cops
get sent there. The bottle of tyl and al is
sitting open on her vanity like she steps away and collapsed.
So Nurse Jensen, who we were talking about the badass motherfucker, says,

(59:10):
I found a bottle of tailanol and there were six
capsules missing and three people were dead. In my mind,
it had to be something to do with the tailanol.
And of course there was no protective ceiling on this
or any over the counter drugs. They just had cought
and tucked in there. So I went back to the
hospital and we took the bottle with us and I
said this is the cause. And of course nobody would

(59:32):
believe me, and I stamped my feet. They said, oh no,
it couldn't be. It couldn't be, like they had not
pieced things together yet. But I think once once, the
brother and sister in law of one of the deceased
died in the same home.

Speaker 4 (59:46):
They realized that something was going on.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
Yeah, So the investigator name Pi Schos sees that the
tailanol bottles all have the same control numbers on them,
meaning they're coming from the stand plant.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
He let's see medical examiner.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
No, and the deputy medical examiner named Donahue tells him
to smell the bottles, and he smells inside of them,
and he smells that telltale sign of cyanide.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
That's almond. What were you gonna say, bubble gum? Just kidding.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Because you seem so out of it you looked at
your finger. No, I knew, but then I but I
wanted to have fun with it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Go ahead, So cyanide has a strong smell of almonds
or bubblegum, because you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Know in the stone fruit, any kind of pit in anything, right,
there is a little bit of cyanide.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
And if you eat enough. Yeah, but you couldn't really
ever eat enough because it's so hard to eat but
digest and all.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
He breaks down, right, Yes, but I think it's because
I had it, you know, I know this is I
had one of those crazy blenders. What's a kinda mix
where you can stick everything in it. Yeah, a VitaminX.
And they're saying, like an apple seeds or you know,
like that, there's cyanide in there, but it's it's a tiny, tiny,

(01:01:10):
tiny trace amount. But there's also tons of vitamins in there,
so that when you can throw everything into a blender,
you get way more vitamin.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
You know what else the vitamins or vitamins are in vitamins.
Oh yeah, you can just take some vita fuck and
take some vitamins. Yeah, uh, not related, kind of related.
I once never mind, Okay, I wouldn't say watermelon rind
to make myself throw up, so I didn't have to
go to Hebrew school.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
Oh did it work?

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
It did?

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Oh goody, And here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
If only you had studied your Hebrew better, I mean,
what would have happened? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
Marry a nice uh Hebrew?

Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Okay, I mean we can go deep into this shitt
let's not do it. So he's smells almonds, and the
medical examiner said that how lucky he was, because only
fifty percent or half the population can actually smell the
almonds and cyanide, which is terrifying and amazing. Right, And

(01:02:15):
it turns out that the tail and all pills were
laced with potassium cyanide at a level toxic enough to
provide thousands of fatal doses, so each one had thousands.
So the reason they fucking hit the ground immediately is
there was so much like they were overdose, way overdose.

Speaker 4 (01:02:31):
Jesus.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
So at three fifteen. Mary McFarland dies. Nine thirty in
the morning, Mary Rhiner dies.

Speaker 4 (01:02:38):
Didn't already say that I might have.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
And so the pills had all come from different plants, supposedly,
and had bought it had been bought at different Chicago stores.
So the police thought that a single person had bought
all the pills at different places, tampered with them, and
then returned them to the different stores. So on Tuesday,
October fifth, which is not shortly after Johnson and Johnson
recalls all tail products nationwide.

Speaker 4 (01:03:01):
I remember that. Do you remember this?

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
Yeah, I was twelve. It was on the news.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
It was the craziest thing in the world. We in
our house. I think my parents bought Beayar. Yeah, they
were like it was just a whole I mean I
remember standing in the in the living room and watching
it on the news, and.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
These are so everyone should know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
These are the capsules that you get that you can
open up and there's powder inside of them. These are
that's what these are. So it's not like you know,
the the like gel caps you get today or anything like.
So anyone could open them u whatever they want in them.
There's no seal on any of this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
So, and there's also a very famous commercial at the
time and maybe a little bit earlier for contact cold medicine,
and in the commercial to some fingers pull apart a
contact pill and all the little beads inside the pill
fall out, and then it talks about all the benefits
of this.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
It's like, here, look what you can do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
I mean, it's it's feels to me like that that
was it was in the consciousness. Yeah, if not exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
Well, someone who is fucked up in evil, see like
some one person puts that together, you know, like the
majority people who see that don't fucking think how easy
it is to fucking poison people. Right, So, so Johnson
and Johnson recalls all Thailand All products people fucking lose

(01:04:26):
their minds in panic, thirty one million bottles valued at
more than one hundred million dollars of Thailand All products
are removed for shelveside and Nation Wine and Chicago police
go through the streets with loud speakers warning residents of
the dangers of taking Thailand all Oh my god. And

(01:04:46):
the thing about this is Johnson and Johnson was totally
on board with this. They they were the ones who fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Were like, yes, you know, because this was back when
people cared about human beings.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
When they were like, how much money is that going
to make me lose if I recall this car?

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
We'll just pay that. It's not worth the lawsuit. Yeah,
it's not worth it. I don't need another boat. No,
And if the lawsuit happens, our insurance will just pay it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
But also, have you ever, I don't know if there's
anything else that's ever happened like this where it's like
recalls on cars or one thing where you're like, yeah,
take your car in or whatever. Yeah, but like, I
don't remember anything like this ever happened.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
Like a mechanic of a thing that everyone has in
their home and then no one used again for years
and years and years, and they knew that was gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Yeah, So all right, I wrote such an eighties thing
that oh the the driving through the streets with loudspeakers.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
That was such an eighties thing. That's like blues brothers.
So vote for mayor whatever the buck. Yep, it's a yeah,
back to the future, Goldie Goldie, Goldie gold mayor Goldie.
Uh I'm gonna be mayor.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Okay, So all right, So I I wrote this whole
thing about the guy who suspected was who they still there,
it's still suspected.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
He's No one was ever fucking arrested. Okay, no one
was ever arrested.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
A man writes a letter to tailand hall manufacturer in
October nineteen eighty two, so like month or two later,
demanding one million dollars to quote stop the killings. The
letters are traced back to a tax consultant named James,
whose name I don't want to say because he's never
he was never arrested and he was never convicted.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
And I'm scared of people.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Well, and also if it's such a nightmare, because if
just by chance, it really wasn't him, but then everybody
thinks it was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Yeah, that's horrifying totally. And I wrote all these things
of like it was clearly him, but then something happened.
The moment you got to my apartment and I had
a fucking study. So this guy James had been charged
in nineteen seventy eight in Kansas City of the murder
of a murder after police found the remains of one

(01:07:01):
of his former clients in his attic. Oh, addict, Yeah,
addict sounds so wrong to me, but the charges were dropped.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
It's at tick attict. There's no d at attic. There
you are, addict. Did I say it right now? It
makes no sense to me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
That's too many times attict attic attic, I mean attic
when you do it on the stage attic. No one
says it like that though at tic up in the attic, Okay,
up in the.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Addict No, t I just can't.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
Uh. Charges are dropped after a judge rules that public
the police search of his home was illegal, So like, motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
Wait, So they find a body, but it's still they
vacate the they.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Went in without a fucking search warrant. A judge is like, sorry, yeah,
you can't do that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:59):
So when he so they trace this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
This letter saying he wants a million back to the
dude James, and James gives him a detailed account of
how the killer might have operated and described how someone
could buy medicine, use a special method to add cyanide
to the capsules, and return them to store shelves.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
Like he tells them how it could be done. But
he thinks.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
He says he's innocent, and what actually he was doing
was when he asked for the one million, he gave
the bank information for a former employer and he wanted
to embarrass that man and send the money to his
bank account and like frame him for it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
Oh yeah, but he is. They don't think it's him.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
But he's charged with extortion and sentenced to twenty years
in prison just for that fucking letter released in ninety five.

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
Oh god, is this getting boring? Okay? VI bite bah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
They reopened the investigation in February two thousand and nine.
They searched his fucking house. They don't think it's him.
There's not enough evidence to charge him.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
But here's where this gets interesting and where I fucking
last left off. Two words for you, Ted Kaczinski. One
more word Unibomber. So the unibumber has some weird connections
to this that I really fucking love, And it's so
far fetched.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
And crazy, but I love this shit.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
So I looked at a map of where all the
locations were in Chicago, and the map that most made
sense led back to where Ted Kazinski's family is from.
It was within twenty minutes of the tampering sites, at
the epicenter of the of the fucking tampering sit is.

Speaker 4 (01:09:47):
Where his family's from.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
Yeah, all the lines lead back to fucking who the parents'
house and in in that year nineteen eighty two, uh
Kazinski's bombs were calculated to commit mass and indiscriminate murder.
He had let a bomb off in nineteen eighty on
an airline and a nineteen eighty one firebomb at the

(01:10:09):
University of Utah, and in nineteen eighty two a fire
brom at the UC Berkeley. So who's active as fuck
at this time? And his family is from twenty minutes
of where all of these fucking places at where they
were bought? Yeah, And he had stated his motive was
a desire to destroy the public's faith in the technological

(01:10:30):
industrial system, and in his manifesto he expressed a dislike
for the manufacturer.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Of drugs and pills them Are that yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
So yeah, So we're done here, No, we're not. We know, okay, okay,
but I want to hear something even cooler that I
fucking love. This is so cool and I had to
check a lot of fucking I had. I had a
dig for this information and it didn't I mean, this
was hours of research before I found this information. This
is from unizod dot com u na zo d dot com,

(01:11:05):
which specifically highlights the link between the unibomber and the
Zodiac Killer. Oh, I know, which is like what, but
it's also like what. So the un Obomber has an
obsession with Wood specifically, I know two of his victims

(01:11:26):
were Percy Wood and Leroy Wood Bearson, and the founders
of Johnson and Johnson Company were named Robert Wood Johnson
and James Wood Johnson. I'm sorry, that's crazy, right or
am I being?

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
Okay? All right? So I don't know. I just think
he did it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
They think he's giving a clue to his location. This
is something he does, is like give weird clues and
like how the Zodiac Killer does as well, and then did.
There was also a Tailanyl murder in Sheridan, Wyoming and
this was like fifteen minutes from Kazinski's house before all

(01:12:17):
this happened.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
Yeah, I don't know. It just fucking it all adds
up to the sky to Ted Kazinsky, so we the
other but the other guy, you believe was just trying
to embarrass his boss. He was definitely a crook and
a con man. And initially I was like, clearly this
is the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
But when I started reading more into this, it doesn't
it it there's no mo of the Thailanyl murders that
make sense unless they were focusing on one specific victim
and trying to hide it by killing a bunch of
other people. But that but but none of that adds
up to the actual people who got killed. There's nobody
that they can pinpoint.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
Whereas Ted Kaczinski clearly it's like it's all kind of
laid out there.

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
Yeah, the motive is that he was a fucking anarchist,
insane person who wanted to fuck companies and fuck the
government and whoever got in the way and whatever the
victims were were just.

Speaker 4 (01:13:12):
Par for the course.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Well, because he was trying to see like that panic
and that like bass avatage unrest.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Yeah, totally. And so there's a lot of weird like
weird similarities. And also, I mean, I know that the
fucking Zodiac killershit sounds weird, but there's a lot of
there's a lot of instances of when he was in
the time and the place, and there's evidence of him
in these places and times.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
Ted Kazinsky, Yeah, when Zodiac was active. Wow, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
Sound and that's when Georgia went crazy. You were on
the internet for twelve hours and all of a sudden,
you like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
And the other thing is that Ted Kazinski is also
a bigfoot, which is gonna sound weird.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
We're going say it, tell me more, but there is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:56):
So there's this photo of the woman who was the
woman who was a an airline a stewardess. There's she
picks up her medica, her tail and all she's a headache.
There's a man in the aisle on the surveillance camera
looking at her directly, no, and he has receiving hairline
and a beard, which both fucking both dudes, Ted Kazinski

(01:14:18):
and this other guy both they both look like that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
It looks more like Ted.

Speaker 3 (01:14:23):
Kazinski to me, honestly, but he's someone who would claim
responsibility for it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
So it's kind of weird.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
Okay, mmmmmmm. So in May eighty three, Congress approved bless
you do you want some Thailand? All? Are you?

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
Okay, I'm just gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Lay down for a second, and here exes veries, button
nos for ies. Okay, Congress and acts the fucking tailand
a bill everyone has to fucking was it called the
Thailand No Bill? In eighty they have to you have
to pull shit off of your fucking pills before you
take them. The In eighty nine, the FDA sets national

(01:15:06):
requirements for all over the counterproducts we tamper resistant.

Speaker 4 (01:15:09):
So that's the why. That's that's the why.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
You've always been looking for that why? Here it is,
and here it is the why. So but there's no no,
there's nobody. It's just a bunch of you got fucking
killed from taking a fucking aspirin and there's insufficient evidence
to charge anyone, and no new or promising leeds. That's
the twenty fifteen there's nothing. I looked for everything. There's

(01:15:35):
nothing new since then.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
You know what's awful about that is the panic, how horrible,
Like those cops must have been going crazy, and like
those detectives, like it was ever there. They had to
be everywhere at once. It's like it's not one victim
in one place. It's like and basically in all these
neighborhoods around metropolitan Chicago.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
One little roping. So like, clearly the person who did
this is in this area and you can find them.
And what I always think about is how awful it
must be for those cops for weeks to go by,
and the more they keep taking people off the case
and keep doing and then suddenly there's five people on
this case when there used to be a hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:16:12):
Yeah, and yeah, that's what are they gonna do. Yeah,
there's nothing they can do.

Speaker 2 (01:16:16):
And when your leads dry up, it's just like, oh
and there's no It's not like people were like doing
something to a tamper proof package. It's like they suddenly
realize anyone could be doing this at any time, to
any product.

Speaker 3 (01:16:33):
It could be any of the family members of the
people who died. It could be any of the coworkers
of the people who's whose fucking relatives died. Yeah, it
could be some rando. To me, it makes the most
sense that it's some fucking anarchist, fuck the government.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
Dude, who sends who sends in the mail bombs to
blow up in people's faces. Yeah, I know this sounds crazy,
but the wood, he was obsessed with wood and all
things would. And then when I saw the Johnson and
Johnson's middle name was wood, I lost my mind.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
But when you say, when you were saying he was
obsessed with all things would, you said, then you gave
the example of the names. But was he also was
it like other things?

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Like, yeah, there were a lot of weird weird like
wood types and trees and like really weird. Like he
was really into like earth, wind and fire, like the
same way the zodiac had his what's it called the
letter the like the.

Speaker 4 (01:17:35):
The lettering, oh oh, the the puzzle that he puzzles, yeah,
cryptogram ted.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Kasinski left a lot of clues and the things he
did on purpose, okay, to kind of fuck with people,
and they liked to see it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:49):
And wood was one of his things. Oh my god,
So they were this in this and he lived out
in that weird cabin, Yeah he did.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
And which is by fifteen minutes from where the fucking
first guy who died of a cyanide fucking poisoning from
til from tailand all died. You know what.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
Case closed. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
I'm sorry, and I just want to go ahead and
again give fucking shout outs to UNIZODE because oh yeah,
these dudes.

Speaker 4 (01:18:17):
I mean, I would, I would.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
There's nothing in any of the news reports that connect
these things. There's there's also two cops who got poisoned
the night before any of this started because they found
boxes of of Thailand all from a manufacturer with powder
in the middle. They rubbed the powder on their fingers
and they got sick, which makes it seem like it

(01:18:39):
didn't actually the guy didn't just go into fucking drug
stores and pull this like he actually had a connection
to the manufacturer, right, which of course Johnson and Johnson
wouldn't want to admit.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
Ay, I mean, and also, what if you were the
PR person for Johnson and Johnson or yeah, like that
product specifically, your life is like now just constant living
that is, I mean, obviously an incredible tragedy and just
like a random awful people dropping dead is just the worst,
obviously totally.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
But then on top of that you have to get
out in front of like the.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
Worst PR nightmare, kind of next to like the Exxon
Valdies or something worse.

Speaker 4 (01:19:18):
Just like, remember, this is just massive.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
It's just thinking about how many you know, how many
people who are thirty an under who listen to this,
who don't know any of these fucking references we're making.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
Well, they can look it up. I mean what, we
can't fucking carry the world on our goddamn back.

Speaker 5 (01:19:35):
We can't make for any millennial. Every millennial they if
they want to, they'll find out about it. Okay, it's
pretty fucking cool, right, it's great. I you know what's
super weird? I thought the I thought the tailean all poisonings.
I remember reading something somewhere where it was a husband
and wife.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
There was a woman who ended up shooting two people
who they suspected could be she was in that area
at the time. She was very mentally oh oh okay,
and they looked into her and her husband. But the guy,
the other guy I mentioned, his wife also might have
been they suspected was complicit in it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
But there was no there was never anything tying them back.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
And don't you wonder about like when they pulled those
tailan al bottles from those fucking houses, like the fucking
fingerprints that could have been on them that then were
ruined because everyone touched them.

Speaker 4 (01:20:27):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
They nurse though, Man, they didn't know she knew. Fucking
high fives to her. High fives to nurses. Who are
the ones that you know they're there. They're the brains
behind it all. They're the badass motherfuckers of the medical
fucking world.

Speaker 4 (01:20:45):
Bamp.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
I want you to get that put on the back
of a leather vest and then just ride your motorcycle
all around town doing it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:53):
It's a mopad is that okay? Okay? But it's not
like it's fake leather?

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Cool?

Speaker 4 (01:20:57):
Is that all right?

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
Yeah, as long as you've gun the engine and stuff.
This has been a wonderful episode. Yeah, I mean in
terms of tragedy, I'm sweating. Oh Karen, what's one good
thing that happened to you this week?

Speaker 3 (01:21:12):
I know, I know, I like that we don't think
about this because it has to be something boom boom boom,
think about it? What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
You don't what's one good thing that's happened this week?
I mean, it's been a tough one and it will
continue to be.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
It has to be different than my than anything I've
said already. One good thing. Why don't you go first,
you fucking asshole?

Speaker 4 (01:21:41):
Oh no, oh my god, okay, oh I guess Jesus Christ.
Yeah right, it's all I can think about is food.
Oh well that's good, that's valid. Oh oh, West World,
that's a good show. Let's helped me? Yep. Okay, I

(01:22:05):
see nothing and there's nothing. Last World counts. Okay, what
did you think of another one?

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
No, I mean tattoos that people are getting of if
I ever murder shit.

Speaker 4 (01:22:15):
Oh that's fun.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Mine would be the show that I did last night
at Largo that was really awesome and it was me
blank Patch. It was Patton Oswald's night, so it was
Patton Oswald and friends, Bobcat Goldway, and then Fred Armison
was just hanging out because he was in town, so
I had him come on stage.

Speaker 4 (01:22:37):
Oh, first of all, I should say this.

Speaker 2 (01:22:39):
My set started, they introduced me this one woman started screaming,
and then as the applause died down, she screamed murderingo so.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Loud, like, so loudly, and I was like, you've had
seven beers Like.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
It was one of those kind of things where it
was she didn't know I was on the show because
they don't ever advertise who's doing it. So I think
she was just like so delighted. I don't mean to
accuse her of being drunk, but it seems like she was.
It was me and Karen was it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
Oh my god, that.

Speaker 4 (01:23:10):
It was really funny though. She was really excited.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
But then, as I told you, at the end of
my set, I had Fred come out and pretend he
was my comedy coach and we just did a bit
that we didn't even It wasn't even like we made
We just said that's what we're gonna do, and then
we just kind of improved it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:26):
And it was really funny.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):
That's amazing. It made me feel much better. I wish
i'd been there next time. Next time, you'll tell me
I wish I knew about.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
Well, you can't ever get into Largo shows like I
can't ever or oh other people can't ever. Oh well, yeah,
I just never think of inviting people because it's they're
always paving.

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
I can't get in to anything. Well, what I realize
now is I can get you in. That's why I
don't ask you to come anyway. If you guys would
go to itune in your sadness and grief and just
fucking leave us a review right that might help. It

(01:24:06):
might make you feel better. Maybe it'll make you feel better.
Thank you guys for listening and being fucking cool people.
And you know what, stay sexy and don't get marred.
Bye bye, Elvis, Want a cookie?

Speaker 4 (01:24:18):
My cookie cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
He said, yes, bye, yeah, Okay, so horrible story. Do
you have updates on the tile and all poisonings.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
It is such a horrible story, And of course I
love it even more because it still remains unsolved. I
have feels so solvable to me, and I have almost
convinced it's Ted Kaczynski still. But there are a couple
of recent developments. In November twenty twenty four, there was
a collaboration between law enforcement and a biotech firm in Texas,
and they have hope that access to new DNA technology

(01:24:58):
could solve this case, which seems very.

Speaker 4 (01:25:00):
Likely to me, unless, of course, everyone takes it down,
takes their right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
It's never mind.

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
This is the biotech that like people.

Speaker 2 (01:25:08):
It's like, you want to know who your relatives are,
and you want to help solve cold cases, but then
black Rock will sell your identity to the outer space
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
Okay. Well, in an alternative twenty twenty five where things
are okay, Yes, is getting solved.

Speaker 4 (01:25:20):
Yeah, that's ooh.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Whoever's there right now, please like send us a fucking telepathic.

Speaker 4 (01:25:25):
Message, Please tell us it's going to be okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
James Lewis, one of the main suspects and the poisonings,
died in July of twenty twenty three. And the badass
Helen Jensen, the now retired nurse who figured out it
was the tile and all that was killing people, which
is so incredible, and she did it so fast the
same day. Yes, she prevented so many people from dying.

Speaker 4 (01:25:45):
Yes she did.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
She told the AP that she hoped that Lewis's death
would be the final coda to a tragedy that has
haunted her and the victim's families, of course for four decades.
She said, quote his death is a conclusion, not necessarily
the conclusion everyone wanted, but is an end. I'm eighty
six now and I'm glad I got to see the
end before I die end quote. So it seems like
she probably thinks that he he did it right.

Speaker 4 (01:26:09):
It would be so horrible if he didn't, though that,
you know that thing of just like then just the
name goes around and.

Speaker 1 (01:26:15):
Yeah, but he, I mean he pointed at himself about it.
I mean, who knows what's going on with that? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:26:19):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
There's also a documentary is seeing in an original series
documentary called How It Really Happened Tail and All Murders
that you can go check out that will tell you
the whole story. If you didn't think I did a
great job of it, which.

Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
Is like, fine, I think you did a wonderful job.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
I think this was a wonderful episode originally entitled Interrears,
which was about somebody working at the WGA who helped
me with my union payments that I was interrears on, which.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Means interewers means debt. You're in debt, behind, behind, got it? Yeah,
you never never heard it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:53):
You owe some payments, your interviewers.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
But if you were naming it today, I do think
it's a good one because it taught me that word
and I appreciate it that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
Yeah, maybe today it should be are you an iguana?

Speaker 1 (01:27:03):
Dude?

Speaker 4 (01:27:03):
One of the great lines of Georgie's of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
Thank you. There's also dry cry because I can't cry,
so you offered the suggestion that I dry cry, which
is a I could totally do. It's a great idea.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
Yeah, just get your face going and then see what happened. Also,
twenty five Davids is not a bad name, either for
this episode or.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
For a band.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Oh my god, I told you this at least three
times before. But there was graffiti on the highway overpassing
Sacramento that I used to drive by all the time
that said too many Daves and it was a band
that's so good. I think it was a punk band
or like an alternative band in Sacramento.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
Too many days, it's true, especially in Sacramento. It's so true.

Speaker 4 (01:27:42):
God, there's so many Daves.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Oh my god. Well, thank you guys for listening. Thank
you Daves, especially for listening Dave.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
And stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye, goodbye.

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
Do you want to cook?

Speaker 3 (01:27:57):
Ke

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 43: In Arrears

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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