Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
It is Wednesday, and that means it's time to take
you back to the not so distant past where things
were shaping up to be the nightmare that it is now.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
That's right, but keeping a positive this is the show
where we recap our old episodes with all new commentary,
updates and insights.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
And today we are going to recap episode forty five,
which we named Funky Diva.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Oh my god, that makes me so happy that this
little shop I worked in on melonos At eighteen is
the name of an episode so classic.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
So this episode came out on December one, twenty sixteen.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Let's listen to the intro of episode forty five.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
You go first, Welcome to My Favorite Murder, the podcast
that asked the question what hauh?

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Who put this on? Hau This is not appropriate?

Speaker 1 (01:14):
No murder? What murder? How dare you wrong with you?
Cals dare you like this? My sensibilities are offended. I'm
offended in my sensibility area. I'm offended in the face.
I'm offended religiously in my mouth, morally, in your mouth,
your nose, throat, virtually your nosing throat, in the eyes,

(01:37):
Vane's spinal fluid heart, not the spine, just the spinal fluid. Clean.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
This is so, This is the Anatomy Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, we can name over ten things in your body.
Congratulations to us. Hey, that's Georgia, that's Karen, and we're
here to talk to you about all of our favorite things.
We like the most, which is true crime. Yeah, welcome
if you don't like it later days.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
The wrong pea cast for you, bro, I saw that
from Vince. I don't want to take is the wrong
pea cast pie for you friends?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, get another pea cast? Uh, it's funny, that Isn't
it funny? Karen? He reflect I was peeing today, as
you do, and I was reflecting.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Sure, as I do, as you're forced to, right.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
And I was thinking about how funny it is that
this like thing that I've been, we've been obsessed with
and secretly in love with and certainly like is our
kind of going to be our career.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
It's pretty nice to think that little Karen was right
about at least one thing.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
It's a pretty good feeling. Yeah, because she fucked up
a ton of stuff. I just keep accidentally falling into
like not fucking up. Yeah, you know that's nice. Yeah,
is it you mean in later life?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, like we got our fucked up stuff out of
the way early.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Yeah, which is kind of I think what you're supposed
to do.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, we're lucky because like twenty well, by twenty five
I was like I'm good.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah, by twenty seven I was like, well I didn't die,
so I'm gonna stop doing all those things now.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, there's no there's no going down from being rehab
at fourteen.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
I still love that.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
I like to think of you in a big pair
of orange junko jeans, just being like, hey, do you
have a clove or whatever?

Speaker 4 (03:30):
Just like so different.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Oh sorry, that's a that's a little fourteen year old
Georgia and she appears I don't have a puff of
smoke and like an orange inco Is it Jinko? I
thought it was. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
I'm sure it's different everywhere. I'm too old to even
really know. It's not my reference.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Thank god. I never wore those.

Speaker 4 (03:48):
I did wear vinyl pants to raves. Did you weren't
they hot?

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Uh? Huh?

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Tight?

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Never washed them? Grow?

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I know, was there some benefit to not washing them. Really,
HATTI to put on?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
I just don't know how one would wash vinyl or
leather pants.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh yeah, you just had to throw them away, Yeah
and start over totally.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Where do you get vinyl pants?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
There was this you remember when Melrose Avenue was like
the fucking coolest place in the world. I do. Actually
that was like our We would save up money throughout
the year in Orange County and make a pilgrimage to
fucking Melrose. Yeah. And my first job when I moved
to La like at six at seventeen, was like on Melrose,
like one of those clothing stores. What's that Funky Diva?

(04:33):
Literally it was called Funky I'm.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm positive I shopped at Funky Diva that you came
in tons of tons of chokers.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
Yes, wouldn't that be amazing?

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Right now we could see security camera footage of me
and you having some kind of rude exchange at Funky
Diva because I'm rude. That's all I was doing back
then was rudeness. Rudeness, rudeness, friends, foes didn't matter.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
It was a lot of arched eyebrows and a lot
of anyway, I'm sorry, sorry.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
What I'm enjoying these days is people on Twitter trying
to show that they mean I'm sorry the way you
say it. They're trying to do it in the writing.
So sometimes it's all caps i'm and then sorry. Sometimes
it's reversed, like how do you actually put that into.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
I would do all caps i'm But some girl did
you see that? On Instagram? I put up a photo
of some girl who wrote like there was like a
musical bar and it had the like it was like
how one would play it.

Speaker 4 (05:33):
You could sing it, yeah, and she had to, Like she.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Must have been a musician. I wish I could, but yeah,
that's genius. Sorry. Do you ever like do you get
like self conscious about the things you say here that
become a thing like that where you're like I would
say that anyways, but now it sounds like I'm pandering.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yes, now, well now it sounds like you're trying to
make some kind of an infographic for it.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
Totally here's your favorite. Like someone at the live show
was text afterwards, like not texted, but like put on,
Like I was really hoping you'd call someone a sweet
baby angel. I'm like, well I don't.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
I didn't call anyone that because I don't want to
sound like, well, you guys, yes you don't.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, it's not like you're uh, that's your tag, tagline, catchphrase,
tag catch line phrase. You're not going to tag anybody
with that phrase. My problem is I cannot believe.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I cannot believe that I still say literally so much.
It is literally the worst habit of all time. I
say it when I'm like kind of trying to explain
something to you, and I'm really like really trying to
convey something. I'll say literally like seven times. It's awful.
I haven't noticed it. I don't pay attention to anyone

(06:48):
but myself, so I wouldn't know. Good plan, good plan,
you know what I mean? I guess same here. Yeah,
nobody cares, Nobody gives a shoes, get shit about you
but yourself and your cats.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
It's nice to be we.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
By the way, we had such an incredible time in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
We I mean, it was nuts, so we I'm speaking
for both of us now, you know I am speaking
for the horrible.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
Yeah, Georgia did not enjoy yourself.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
We the Karen Uh, it was so crazy to walk out,
As I explained to my sister and you and our
whole all of our people. Afterwards, I said, I anticipated
a certain amount of applause, and we got like fifteen
times more than what I anticipated.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
How I've seen so many like a couple of friends
have texted me, and I've seen a couple of tweets
and things like that. They got so emotional when they
heard the applause of us.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Coming, Like, yeah, people keep saying that, what a bunch
of nice people. I know, but thank you for clapping,
I know, And like it just is neat. It's so neat.
It's really neat.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think we're a little overwhelmed and how neat it
is and how neat everything is, and we're trying to
process it. Yeah, and we're just happy. It's so flattering
and we're happy and we want to thank each and
every one of you, which I think we did. After
the show. We stood there and thank we fucking thanked
you all to your face. I hugged so many people

(08:15):
and thank the Lord. Nobody was weird, nobody, nobody, nobody.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Everyone really waiting for like somebody with some scissors up
their sleeve, for sure, and uh, everybody did great.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
My mom sat to the side in a chair with
a beer and just watched. It was like an hour
and a half. It was so long, and she watched
the entire so did my sister and aid it and Audrey.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
After a little while, Audrey came over and just started
taking pictures of us, taking pictures with people because she
was so excited. Everybody was thrilled about it, but we
did want to think. Tyler Green and Jonathan Pitts are
the two people who put the Chicago Podcast Festival together,
and they made it happen for us and for everybody
who is there, and we want to thank them so
much because they did an amazing job.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, it was so smooth and easy, great, and there
was soda in the green room and there was a
green room candy.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah, we had a whole We had a bag of treats. Yeah,
that's awesome. Do you know how much I fucking love
like that. What do they call them when you leave
a place and they give you a bag, an exit
bag whatever? I fucking like, I don't know, it sounded right, Oh,
like a swag bag.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Swag bag.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
I will go to a fucking party just for the
swag bag. Sure, even if I could buy it myself.
I will like a little present. I just want to
like not yeah, I like presents.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
We also want to think that the staff of the
I never pronounced it right, but the Anthonyum Theater, which
is the one hundred and five year old theater where
we did our show, where all those people were, and
that staff had to wait until we said high to
every single person practically, and so thank you guys so
much for your patients and for being.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
There for us.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
And I actually I have a business card of the
man who really arranged that lobby situation, and I meant
to bring it to say his name, specifically, the.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Dude who stood there and took every he like would
he was like handmade your camera.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
They were so great, they were so nice, and the
whole experience was just like pretty. I didn't really look
at you that much because I didn't want to have
like we weren't having that much personal experience. Yeah, because
I didn't want to, like either prime tiers.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, you can't look at me a lot in like
emotional settings, I feel like, no, you don't want to
get emotional.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I need to shut down in very specific ways and
I can't, you know me, I can't open it back.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Up or it'll be tears, tears tears. Okay, I guess yeah, God,
we're we're so different.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
We're like I was it like the opposite.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
So we're doing the Riot LA Show on Saturday, January twenty.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
First, because that's the one at the Orphium, right I
think so. Yeah, So it's another big, old fashioned theater.
Please help fill it out so we don't feel stupid. Yeah,
we don't want to feel supid in our own city.
Oh my god, like around people that we know, Oh
my god. We keep talking about like, oh and Chicago,
they did this in our back and then we go
to LA and it's like four people. It's like your manager,

(11:06):
my agent wouldn't go who just would.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Be judging us in the crowd.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
No one makes a giant Elvis fucking cut out face
like they did in Chicago.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Oh I forgot so a girl maid.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Oh my god, I'm gonna call her out because she
was amazing.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
She took a picture of Elvis.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
She blew it up so it was bigger than a
human head, like twice the size of a human head,
and then she had it in front of her face.
So when the lights came up and we were talking
to people to get the hometown murder at the end. Yeah,
I saw this thing that I thought a girl dressed
up like a free like dressed up like Elvis. It
scared the shit out of me. I was genuinely scared.

(11:45):
But she it turned out she was just holding it
in front of her face, like, look, Elvis is here.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
You can find the photos on on Instagram. We're my
favorite murder Instagram. Her name is Alex Graves. And what
a fucking angel baby, Like, thank you so much, Like
that was so fucking cool.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
It was super cool.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
And photos of us with it, And I have this
photo from my hotel room of me and where having
it in front of my face.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
It really does look like when you hold it up,
it just looks like you're now a huge Siamese cat.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
It's creepy, but in the best way, because I'm obsessed
with this cat. Yeah, Like he's sitting next to me
right now. And I also have Siamese pajama pants on
right now.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
You're in You're living the life. Oh I'm at m Indeed,
you're you're living that life.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I have a parasite in my brain that just controls
me and it's and it's cat it's from cats probably right, sure,
that's real, sad?

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Are you going to bring that cat head to New York?
So then you so Elvis can be there too. It
doesn't it didn't fit in my bag plays something, and
I feel really shitty. It's super huge. Did you have
to leave stuff behind? Okay, I don't care. Okay, I know,
but I know you don't. But I feel really bad,
So like, oh oh, but it's kind of cute, Okay.
So we took a photo of it and in the
hotel then when I were packing to leave and tonight,

(12:55):
and then I was like, this doesn't fit.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
What do we do?

Speaker 4 (12:58):
And he was like, put it behind the couch in
the hotel room.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
So I slipped it behind the couch at the fucking
Godfrey Hotel in one of the rooms. Behind the couch
is a fucking Elvis and it has this girl's info
on it, like not info info, but like you know,
Instagram and shit on it. So yeah, someone's gonna mother
fucking find that. That's hilarious. You know what's interesting.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
I had brought a dress with me to Chicago that
I bought in a panic at Target for twenty dollars
didn't try it on. I was like, this is going
to be a look at dress. I'm doing it fine,
grabbed it Bran. It wasn't black. Actually it was like
green and maroon and black, but it was kind of
stripey and there's a lot going on. When I got

(13:38):
to Chicago and tried it on, it turned out it
was mpure waste, which makes me look because I have
big boob, so it made me look like I was
in my third trimester. My sisters like, take it off, Anna,
Exa girls.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
The only people looked at them, and you shouldn't be Anrex, right,
So so no one, nobody.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
So that's why I went shopping and told that whole story.
If you want to hear, it's not a story. It's
on the Are we gonna? And we both wore black dresses?
Are we gonna?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Just? Are we doing that?

Speaker 3 (14:04):
From now?

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Those are our show uniforms, like the same dress or
just black, any kind of black.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
I think I think we should keep it like any
kind Okay, don't you?

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yes? Except that means I have to go shopping because
I literally own like three black things because I dress
like a fucking schoolgoorl Grandma.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Well then you have ten days. You have ten days
and a lot of shopping. Oh my god, shopping is amazing.
But I left that dress in our hotel room with
a note that said, you can have this if you
want it turned it. Oh no, it's Target. Yeah, all
the time, I'd ripped. Anytime I buy something, I rip
all the tags off of me.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
You do see I have. I'm claustrophobic and can't go
in a changing room, so I just bring everything home
and then return it all.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
I think.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I don't go in a changing room because I don't
want to see my back those mirror I.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Saw mine recently. I thought like it had the mirror
behind me, Like my mirror stops at like my it's
like my waist up, yeah, which is like the great area.
Sure I look so hot from the behind and the
ways stuff put your with the backyard bra and everything. Yeah,
it's like, oh well, now, because I got that like
fat pinch, because I refuse to believe I'm bigger.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
Than everyone has that that's human.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I don't need to see my fucking butt right then,
when you're in one of those high tension dressing rooms.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, oh so yeah, I just want to pretend that
that's not true.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
I just like to think that there was a housekeeping
housekeeping lady who was just like, oh my god, I
can't dress.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
That's dress.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
And I wrote on the note never been worn. I
hope she believed me anyhow, Thanks Chicago, we really love you.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Oh yeah, Chicago. Do we have any other housekeeping? Uh?

Speaker 4 (15:38):
I was keeping. Oh. My only thing is.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I had started watching a show called did you start
called The Killing Season?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
No? But I need I need to watch.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
It, okay, yesterday. I haven't been hearing enough about it.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, I think we'll be the engine for that. I
think so because I started watching yesterday. I had heard
a little bit. And so it's a series about the
Long Island serial killer. And I'd started that book so
long ago and said I was going to do an
episode about it.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
And this is one of like the murder that that
I heard about beforehand. It is so fucking crazy and
in saying the girl who went to private privately danced
for that dude, yes, who like something happened, Yes, the
thing that like kicked it off amazing, like it should
be solvable based on that murder, right, I love it.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
So this series is by the people that two people,
Joshua Zeeman and Rachel Mills, and they're the two people
who did the documentary Cropsy that we recommended to everybody. Yeah,
that's super upsetting. Well, this is an Any series, Amy
is amazing.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
I love Cropsy because it's not corny, Like there's so
many documentaries that are like corny, right, Cropsy is not.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, No, it's just straight up scary. Yeah. Well, this
series it's called The Killing Season. It's on Any And
I'm not an ad. By the way, in the middle light,
we're not talking.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
This is real talking.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, now we have to say it's the corner. So
I started watching yesterday and I ended up laying on
my couch and watching six episodes straight through. And by
the time I got to the sixth episode, I didn't
I need to leave my house and be around human
beings that I knew I would be safe like that.
It was very upsetting and I don't have that like

(17:24):
it normally. I don't get that, and I really did,
Like I went to the movies with Alison Agosti and
then I told her. She started it today and texted
me today and was like, I cannot stop.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
Watching the cabies.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
I should watch it. I mean, I don't think this
is going to watch it with me. It's really heavy.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
But the thing is that it starts with the Long
Island serial Killer and then it just expands like other
sh just keeps going. Yeah, because there's all these things connect.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
You have to see it.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I'm watching the shit out of that.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
Highly recommend if you haven't seen it. I did the
same thing yesterday literally with Search Party.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Oh yes, and now I like, I was like, I'm
gonna watch I watched five minutes of the first episode
and I was like, I'm gonna save this for events
because it's really good and it's gonna and then I'm
in an episode like six. Now it's like I couldn't stop.
Like I did my nails because I wanted to sit
in front of the TV. And I can't sit in
front of the TV without doing something right. So like,
my nails are nice. My fucking laundry was folded out here,

(18:21):
which I never like, it was just true.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Oh my god, Yeah, you gotta do something I have been.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I watched one episode of Search Party and then I
had to leave my house. I like, at had to
be somewhere, and I knew if I started the second.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
One, I want every character John Early is. Yeah, he
is so fucking perfect. There's like four main characters and
they're just like the perfect exact people of who they're
supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, and if you know, did you get the feeling
too where when I saw the first episode, I got
jealous that that's there, Like, oh, you're making this show
all yeady, like I want this show.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I do you. I was thinking that about you writing
then I'm like, how stoked would you be if this
was the show you were working on?

Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:59):
I want like a can I be someone's sister's friend's brother? No, No,
I want like a walk on roll And y'all want
you to write it. It's okay, Yeah, we'll come to
them with a bunch of big ideas. So good, it's
so good. Uh watch Church Party, Like it's so good.
And I think it's all on demand too, so you
can binge the shit out.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Of Yeah you can. It feels like everything's that just
it feels like I would do what she's doing.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Right.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
What's Aliyah? Aliah chaquat chaqua? She is so you bet you?

Speaker 1 (19:31):
I didn't pronounce that right, Aliyah? It's so maybe from
arrest of device. Yeah, she's the darlingest person I've ever seen.
She's such a good actress too. Yeah, oh my god,
I'm so happy.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
So that's like TV corner corner. I think that's all
I have. I do murders, Stephen, do you need do
you need a Stephen check in?

Speaker 4 (19:53):
Steven check in?

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Harry Stephen.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
My sister had a great time in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yah.

Speaker 4 (19:58):
Nice.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
And I didn't hang out with the cats, thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
When I go out of town, Stephen takes over the
Elvis and me me Instagram and it's like I kind
of need to pay you extra for like that because
there's it's so good. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (20:11):
I was just thinking where I was during the show,
and I'm just like sitting here petting Elvis as it
should be.

Speaker 5 (20:18):
Yeah, No, it's perfect.

Speaker 6 (20:20):
But my sister she met a really nice murderino and
her mom who's also murderino, and they got a picture
with her and everything, which is very sweet.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Her name was Lee or Lee or Leah or something
like that, but nice, very sweet, that great.

Speaker 6 (20:34):
And my sister, like I was telling you, I was like,
my sister needs to listen to my favorite murder because
she was obsessed with helter skelter. I got her devil
in the White City when she moved to Chicago. So
it was just like, this is this needs to happen.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
She's got all the materials, she has no excuses. Yeah,
she's got to get into it.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
And we gave you.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
We called her sister. Ray Morris gave yes you a
shout out.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
It was very sweet.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Someone needs to get a giant Stephen. Ray Morris cut
off the next one.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Oh my god, No, that sounds like I would never
want to see things like that.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
But it needs to be three times the size as
the last.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
You need to basically not be able to bring it
in because they're like you can't.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Someone make a Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade balloon of Stephen.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
That would be perfect if.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
You don't mind.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
It would not be that big of a deal.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Leave it behind it what the couch, We'll believe it
in the basement of the holiday. And you just told
everyone we're staying No, we're not staying in a holidays.
I know not that we're gonna get okay here, we
nobody gives a ship.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
We're not.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
They know no, we're not.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
We're not.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
And we told you that ever did from the beginning.
We set it before and we're going to say it again. Yeah, like,
you guys know, please, you don't know.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
You have to know that that we know, Yes, we know.
When we're not three hours later, they're still Oh, here's
me typing an email.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
You guys start the podcast. No, fuck you, We've got
to improv some more. Stop pissing Karen off. Elvis is leaving.
He's like, fuck these bitches.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
You pissed me off, then you piss Elvis off, then
it's over. Mimi's fine though.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
The mos people gave us like Elvis and Mimi toys
and they're like they look like, oh god, I'm gonna
lose my mind. Everyone's the best. We got a nice presence,
all right.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (22:23):
They're so good and nice.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
I miss people, I know it.

Speaker 4 (22:27):
I think, oh what, I'm sorry. Here's the last thing.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
The girl who as she walked up my sister and
Adrian and Audrey like cried laughing when I told the story.
The girl who walked up like, hey, you guys, kind
of all young and like she was doing weird things
with her shoulders, so she's all kind of goofy. And
then when she got in to take the picture. She goes, you, guys,
my dad killed his business partner and got away with it.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Bye, stay sexy. She was just like this cute, like
kind of sorority ish chick.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Hey, how are you guys? Yeah? She did put her
on like you know when you're like talking to someone
as the photos getting taken.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, like she's just sony, like straight face. I was
so excited about my dad killed his business partner and
he got away with it.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Bye.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
We were like, I've never been that starstruck in mind.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
No, I was like email. I wanted to give her
my personal email account to just be like email us now.
I said, say hi to your dad for me. It was.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
It was hilarious, gorgeous, It was a beautiful.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
If you admit to other people's crimes to us in person,
we'll menchine you on the podcast. We will listen and
we will shout it out and we will be subpoenat
in the trial.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
Yeah, no lying, please?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
All right?

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Should we start?

Speaker 1 (23:47):
I guess I.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
Think now the homework part counting.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
I like my murder are you? This is what I
wanted to do, But I think you're first. I think
I am yeah, and we're back, We're here. It's so
funny that we're talking about the listener, Alex. She's still
a listener, she's still a friend. And I totally forgot
about that Elvis head.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
That you hotel.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
That's so funny.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
It was gigantic.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
It was enormous. It was so awesome.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
I wish I had like let her keep it because
how I couldn't have carried that onto the plane.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
I mean, I mean it was double the size of
an overhead bin. I think, so great though it wasn't it?

Speaker 3 (24:25):
It was great.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
It was like three people could have stood behind that
Elvis head. It was amazing and very realistic.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, and then finding out that we were a BuzzFeed
quiz that was like really early on.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yes, it happened very surreal, and at first it was like, oh, well,
that's people that like our podcast like that quiz, and
then it just lived on it.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
It just went on and on.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, it's just so wild.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
I like, when I was listening to this episode, I'm like,
it feels like it took so like it took longer
for us to like hit that peak, but it was
so fast.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
How are we going to wrap our heads around that?
We didn't.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
We couldn't well also because it was like if we
would have been able to wrap our heads around it,
I think if we stopped for three months, but it
was like going and then just the work. I think
the weird part was the amount of work. Just kept
adding and adding and adding and adding, so it was
like we didn't have time to think, to process, to
talk about it. It was literally just every time I

(25:21):
saw you, you were holding your phone up to show
me a new shocking piece of information about what was
going on.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
It was just always surreal.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Well, we kept going and we kept showing up at
my apartment and doing new stories. Stephen kept showing up
recording them. We appreciate that, Thank god he did so nice. Okay,
so this is a classic your story that I had
never heard before but still think about. Let's get into
Karen's story about Lord Luken.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
So I have because of watching the Killing season and
how heavy it is and how it feels like everyone
in the world is a serial killer by the time
you're halfway through with it. In some ways is a
fun feeling.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
It's fun, isn't it. I like it, and yet you're
still alive.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
We made it.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Everybody so I switched over as a palette cleanser. I
started watching The Crown, which is a wonderful Netflix series.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
British procedural. It sounds British, Is it British? It's the
story of Queen Elizabeth. I figured, God, I'm so smart,
the newest one. Yeah, it's so in a way. It
is kind of a British procedural. Wait, it's the newest
show about the about.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Like how she got became the queen and what her
life was like a badass. She's a total badass. There's
parts in it. I want the Crown TV show to
come out with their own book on how to be
politely assertive, because that's her. And also I want them
to come out with the color of lipstick that she's wearing,
because it's this perfect shade of pinkish red that would

(27:00):
actually look good. I can't wear red because my teeth's
yellow is a little corn Nibble's very fair. I'm very
fair with red in my skin, so red lipstick on
me makes me look like I have been smoking crack
in the alley.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
I look like a fucking what do they call them
rockabilly and it's onoxious?

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, well this is like this muted brownish pink lipstick.
I bet it's I bet they make it for her.
And that's not even thing you can fucking buy, you
know what I think? Well, we have a fucking lip
gloss that was made for us too, that that girl
sent us.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
Remember, so the Queen. I'm sorry, it's not that buckets, but.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I want the Queens because it because we've started doing
coke before, back to being fourteen. So as so I
blended into uh, this very British kind of fancy regal
area like controlled, yes, and aristocratic, which is I mean

(27:57):
like if if I was in that time, I would
be like truly the dishwasher in the bottom part of.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
The basement, like.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Do you need a Kenda'll stick? And I wouldn't, but
with an Irish accent, which for some reason I can't
do right now. So I decided that my murder is
going to be that of the infamous, infamous story.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Of Lord Luken.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
Have you ever heard of him? I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
Okay, this one's pretty good because it involves British aristocracy
and a disappearance.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
You know I love.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Disappearances, all right, So here's the story of this guy.
He it was born John Bingham.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
And Uh.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
He was born on December eighteenth, nineteen thirty four, to
an aristocratic family in Marley Bone, which is the funniest
name for it's a neighborhood, I guess in London.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Oh you're gonna get I.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Don't care what you say next, You're going to get
a correction about like what it pronunciation London.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
It's actually in.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Wales, not a neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
It's a fucking it's tucking in New.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
York where down in New York. Yeah, this whole I'm
I once again am flying in the face of uh
of logic and just trying to be British once again.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
For the fucking nose, game for the stars, game for
that button nose.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
So John Bingham during World War Two when he was
a boy, he was evacuated out of uh London, out
of marley Bone, so.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
It'd be like it's pronounced meli bin.

Speaker 5 (29:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
He was evacuated to Wales and then uh to Canada
and he got to live with his rich like friends
of family sounds relatives, yeah, who are like crazy rich.
But then when he came back to England when the
war was over, he was sent to Eaton College. Now,
I was thinking about this in my head, but I

(29:52):
didn't look look it up. I think over there Eaton
is like a boarding school that's like grammar and high school.
It's not necessarily a college like we think they.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Had, like finishing school right where like you pass your again,
where you put a book on your head, save it
if you want to fucking email text us that will
tweet us that we're wrong. It's like someone in England
tell us what, no, No, I don't care. I do care,
But I think it's like a finishing school. Now I'm
gonna keep saying that till you agree with me.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
This time you said it like you then thinking about it,
and now you've decided it's a finishing school. Yeah, I
think it's like high school and perhaps like a boarding school.
Yeah exactly. Anyhow, finally we agree. So when he was there,
he supplemented his pocket money with he was a bookie

(30:45):
and so right, yeah, I think it's very coral too.
He had a secret bank account, oh my god. And
he made money as a kid as a kid. Grandfather
was a bookie for real.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Yeah. Barber the barber shop front barber quote quote unquote, Okay,
nice sorry.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
So this kid, he would leave the school grounds, go
to horse races, take bets and he was like the
school bookie bad oh cool, love it.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
Well.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
The bad part, the uncol part, is that he turned
out to be a terrible, compulsive gambler.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Oh later on, I don't take that back, but when
he's a kid, it's cute.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
So he got the nickname Lucky Lucan after winning twenty
six pounds at the card game chamendefur in latour latouquet.
None of that's real, none of it is meaningful to
me and anyway, but he won. He won a game
a bunch of pounds, and so that's what made him think,

(31:46):
I'm I am lucky and I should be doing this
all the time. So so, uh, when he got out
of school, he was in the army for a little
bit and then he started a job as a merchant banker.
But he had very expensive tastes because he was still

(32:06):
an aristocrat. His parents were very very what do you
call that? I was going to say staunch, but that's
from Gray Gardens. It's they didn't spend a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
They were like religious and uh, that's the what's the
word when you try to I'm like making a gesture
on my chest.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Yeah, like frugal, frugal, frugal.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
This gesture worked for me. How long did that take?

Speaker 1 (32:34):
This podcast is two hours long. It's because we're trying
to remember words that neither of us could enjoy this.
I don't know what's mad.

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Stephen is like, can you get your fucking ship together? Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
So he had a very expensive taste because he was
still an aristocrat at the end of the day, and
he was raised, you know, by rich people in North America,
so he his he had tastes for the best Russian voevodka.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
He liked to raise power boats.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
And then on in from this lift oft in Wikipedia,
donate to Wikipedia, by the way, if only just three dollars?

Speaker 4 (33:10):
Oh can you donate to Wikipedia?

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, it's a thing that they're Yeah, they're they're actually
having like they're kind of like public television right now,
and they're trying to get people to to give them money.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Because they just they need to stick around.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
I think so many questions. I mean, I love Wikipedia,
but I won't ask them right now.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
If you click on there right now, the thing will
come up to say, please give us three dollars, okay,
and then we'll do it.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
That's yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Mean it seems fair for all the shit they get.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Oh my god, the hours I spent when I had
a desk job looking at unsolved murders and serial killers
and love it.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
So anyway, this guy, basically he's living the life. He
likes the best of all things. I was just going
to say at the end of this sentence. They were
like he had the best tastes. He loved the best
you know, he raised boats. He he loved Russian vodka
and smart cars, which I think in England probably means
smart like cool cars, but here means tiny toy looking

(34:07):
cars that are the stupidest looking cars you could drive.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
I just time travel too, because those didn't exist, Like,
how cool would that be if he were just like they?

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Like he invented the smart car? All right?

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Anyway, he was also very charismatic. He was six foot
two with a quote from Wikipedia, a luxuriant mustache like Stevens,
and he was once considered to play the role of
James Bond. Oh shit, so he's that You used toe
a picture of him on Wikipedia. He's pretty cut. Yeah, Yeah,
he's very British aristocratic looking kind of like he knows,

(34:42):
I won't. It's a high class, you know, a British thing,
pointing knows and kind of like he looks like he'd
be like, very good.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Hey man, my husband, My husband is the spitting image
of Prince Williams. That's exactly right in British. Yeah, no complaints.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Also, at one point he was ranked among the top
ten the world's top ten backam employers.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
So you have kind of cool, badass yeah, talk about sex.
I mean, I don't know what backammon is exactly, but
I bet it's hard.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
It's you know what it is.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
It's like chess for drunk people is what it is.
All right, It still sounds like I don't think I
like chess for drunk people.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
To me is like bingo.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
Connect four is chess? That's right for drunk people? Yeah, bingo.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
So he meets his wife, Veronica Duncan at a golf
club function and they get married on November twentieth, nineteen
sixty three. And when they get married, so Lord Lucan's
finance is when he was a young man and he
was gambling so much it got a little iffy in
there because he was just like going for it and
like I'm in a boat race, I have to have
an Aston Martin. You know, he was like living the

(35:55):
life and spending all that money. So when he marries
Veronica Duncan, his father gives him what was called a
marriage settlement, so he gets a big chunk of money
to buy a house to prepare for having kids like
this whole So he's basically kind of like up In
up in the in the black and sexist.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
I got it.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Two months after he gets married, I called him old
Man Lucan. Old Man Luken dies of a stroke, and
so John Bingham inherits two hundred and fifty pounds and
his father's titles, which are Earl of Lucan, Baron Lucan
of Castle, bar Baron Lucan of Melcombe Lucan, and Baronet

(36:36):
Bingham of Castle.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
I know what any of this means.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
It's meaningless. So cute the mean femails.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
It's not meaning, it's super meaningless. Don't shoot foxes, right, everybody, Okay.
So the problem is that he has a very serious
gambling problem. So at first it was hot and cute
and he's James Bond, and after a while, it's like,
put the fucking backgammon down?

Speaker 4 (37:00):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (37:03):
And he's spending, still spending money like an aristocrat. So
he's like, you know, he's he's got an open account
at Savile Row Tailor's, you know what I mean. People
are making to those clothing for him. Yeah, look at you, Karen.
I know, I want to be rich really bad? Do
you really bad?

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Really?

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Not just rich though, I want to be well, I
want to be like Lord Luken, I want to be
an aristocrat. What would you do?

Speaker 1 (37:28):
What you like?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
I guess I would just drink and smoke cigarettes all
day because you can. You can just do it at
that point, because you can. You can kind of yeah,
you can just kind of well, it's the same thing
you can do if you were basically a bum.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Remember that intervention where the woman had like inherited so
much money that she was like, why should I not
be an alcoholic? And then she they were going to
take her to a rehab that was like a fourteen
hour like a five hour flight, but she insisted on
getting a limo because she wanted to bring her cats
with her, So she put her cats in the limo.
You know, all the kind of vess.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
You took a cat road trip.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, like put cat boxes in live like she's me
if I just had a gelling for it, and like
no one could say an ignore because like she wasn't
gonna lose anything.

Speaker 5 (38:10):
Because she was.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Did it work? Did she get sober? I don't know
if there's maybe there's hopefully there's a follow up. I
don't know, Man, it's been I haven't. I stopped watching
that because it's real depressing.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
It turns out she ate all those cats. She got
really drunk and then she got hungry and she ate
those cats. Oh it was probably I mean, sorry, fucking no,
great Field.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Loving it, left Field. There's there's a downside to being
an addict. I think we all know this.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
We've tried to tell you over and over. Yeah. Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
So he and his wife have three kids, George and
Camilla and a third one that for some reason is
no on this list, and some of it. You know,
the youngest kid never matters.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 5 (38:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Seriously, I'm living that life. That's why we're Murder podcast. Yeah,
that's that's why we're doing what we do.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
So Veronica is struggling because she also has three kids
in this very short amount of time, of course, so
she's struggling with postnight natal depression, honey, and Lord Lucan
takes her for treatment at a psychiatric clinic. She refused
to be admitted, but she did agree to home visits
from a psychiatrist and taking course of antidepressants. So she's

(39:20):
trying to take care of it, but she won't, like,
you know, really go take a full break or whatever.
She's like, I can handle this.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Well.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Then that combined with the pressures of maintaining their finances
and his I mean he I read this thing. I
didn't include it, but there was a thing of like
how he would spend his days. Oh my god, it's
so hilarious because you would like get up and eat
breakfast and then go to his gaming club and just
gamble all afternoon and gamble. Yeah, and you know he

(39:47):
was probably drinking too, of course, and then he would
come home and get dressed and then put on like
his tuxedo to preaking cigarettes probably oh yeah, and you
can't wash that off after a while. And then he
just went out to drink and eat and small oak
and gamble more. That was just that's all he did.

Speaker 5 (40:02):
All the time, I.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Would have that's not post snatal depression, that's fucking depression.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, that she had because she was like, what the
fuss is not what I fucking so went to finishing
school for.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
So basically in the two weeks after a very strained
family Christmas in nineteen seventy two, Lord Lucan moved out
and then they get into this bitter custody battle and
the justice awards custody to Veronica.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Divorce like didn't happen back then?

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, it wasn't good and I'm sure for aristocrats, and
you could push him off the couch.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Ellis is ripping at Karen's notes, my.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Precious writing, Okay, so uh so she is awarded custody
of the three kids, and that's all he wanted, and.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
So why would he want just to fuck with her? Right?

Speaker 2 (40:53):
I think, well, no, no, no, he really, I'm sure
really loved his children and it was very important to him.
But also it I think it was part of this
thing that he didn't think she was a fit mother,
knowing that she had postnatal depression. I think he was
partly worried and then also partly he was an addict
and needed to control things. Maybe I don't know, there's
something going on. He gets awarded like every other weekend visit,

(41:19):
and he gets really obsessive about it. So he starts
spying on her to prove she's an unfit mother. He's
recording their phone conversations. He becomes fixated on her and
what's happening.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
He also is.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
His drinking gets really bad, and his gambling. He goes
crazy with the gambling, and all of his friends are like,
he's in a downward spiral. And then all of a sudden,
the week of November seventh in nineteen seventy four, he
seems to like suddenly be pull it together. And there's

(41:54):
a couple story firsthand stories of people who like had
dinner with him and they try to talk to him
about what's going on with the kids, and need changes
the topic to politics, and so they're like, Oh, maybe
he's rounded the corner.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
Maybe he's out of his system.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, So on the evening of November seventh, nineteen seventy four,
he had a bunch of plans with people that he
didn't He just didn't show up. And that night, the
children's nanny, Sandra Rivett, puts the younger children to bed,
and at about eight fifty five, she asks Ronica if

(42:29):
she if she'd like a cup of tea, and so
she heads downstairs to the basement kitchen. So there, that's
a fucking sweet ass mansion. Yeah, I'll go down to
the to the maid's kitchen. I'm not going to use
your nice, high class kitchen to MiG tea. So she
goes downstairs to the basement kitchen to make Veronica some tea,

(42:51):
and as she enters the room, she is bludgeoned to
death with a lead pipe a piece of bandaged lead pipe,
and her kill places her body in a canvas mail sack. So, meanwhile, upstairs,
Lady Lucan wonders what's delaying the nanny, so she walks

(43:12):
down the first floor stairs to see what's happened, and
she calls from the top part of the stairs. She
calls down to Rivet and to see what's going on,
and the guy comes up and attacks her with the
lead pipe as well.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Oh, and she starts screaming for her life.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
The attacker tells her to shut up, and that's when
Lady Lucan knows. She tells the cops later that she
knows it's her husband.

Speaker 4 (43:40):
So she survives. This guy's got like a mask on
or something.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think the lights were out, like it was dark,
so she's kind of calling down. She doesn't know what's
going on, and then this guy comes up and she
thinks she's just getting attacked, and then she realizes it's
her husband according to her, So they get into this fight.
She bites his fingers and he throws her face down
in the carpet and she man She manages to turn

(44:04):
around and squeeze his testicle, releasing Steve Stephen just really
felt that, causing him to release his grip on her
throat and give up the fight. Uh. She asks where
Rivet is and Lucan was at first evasive, then eventually
admits that he just killed her. So what they believe

(44:25):
is that he thinks he thought it was Veronica walking
into the basement kitchen. He was trying to kill his wife,
and he accidentally killed the nanny. So this is according
to Lady Lucan. So Lady Lucan is terrified. She tells
him she'll help him escape if he would just well,
she's trying to get so she says, I'll help you escape.

(44:48):
You just have to stay here for a couple of
days and hide out and allow my injuries to heal,
because she's been hit with the lead pipe and everything.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
My god, so.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Lucan, she walks up upstairs, I'm sorry, Lord Lucan that
the oldest daughter.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
Wakes up, so he goes to put her to bed, and.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
She and then the wife, Veronica, goes into the bedroom,
lays down. She's bleeding, and he puts down towels for her,
and it like, don't get don't get the bedding stained
her blood, So he asks her, does you have any barbituates?
He goes into the bathroom to get a towel and
supposedly clean her face, and that's when Lady Lucan realizes

(45:35):
that he won't be able to hear her if he's
in the bathroom, and so she runs out of the house.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
But their kids still there. Though.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Yeah, but I think she knew that he didn't want
that it was about her, and that the attack was
about her, because she also did report earlier that he
had once hit her with a cane and once tried
to push her down the stairs, so there he had
gotten physical with her before, but he I think she
trusted that he wasn't going to harm their children. Yeah,

(46:04):
I mean crazy, That's what it seemed like. So she
runs out of the house and she runs to a
nearby public house called the Plumber's Arms. Let's go get
a drink there. We have to go to a pub
called the Plumber's Arms. So what like big hairy arms
with the tattoo, Like.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
What kind of bulldog tattoo is that? Yeah, a bulldog
would be good.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Or an anchor of course, of of course, an anchor
or maybe just a just a queen Elizabeth's face.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I mean she's a mad ass.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
Everybody loves her.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Everyone loves Okay, okay, So the police, she they call
the police. The police go to the house.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
But meanwhile Lord Lucan has called his own mother and
tells her of a terrible catastrophe that's happened at his
wife's home. He uh tells his mother, you have to
come here and get the children.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Then he he.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Drives a borrowed car to his friend's house in Uckfield,
East Sussex, and then hours later he leaves that property,
leaves the car there, and he's never seen again and
has never been seen since.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
No, swear to God.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
So that car was founds. Yes, he's the one missing.
He disappeared. He disappeared, So no, this is I was
not expecting that. Yeah, James Bond is out and about dude.
He the car was found abandoned in New Haven and
the interior was stained with blood, and the trunk had

(47:41):
a piece boot for those of our friends in England,
had a piece of bandaged lead pipes similar to the
one found at the crime scene. So there's one that
Nanny was killed with that was left at the crime scene,
and there's another one that's in this borrowed car.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
And we don't know what Why was all the blood
in the car, and we don't know what's that he
was covered in blood, Okay, and I don't know if
there were two.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
There's no explanations, just I'm not surely shit. So but
then also he left it a letter to the owner
of the car that said, my dear Michael. So he
basically borrows this car from this guy. He's like, hey,
can I borrow your car for a while, and then
just gets blood all in it, abandons it and it's
crazy and he says, my dear Michael, I have had
a traumatic night of unbelievable coincidence. However, I won't bore

(48:30):
you with anything or involve you, except to say that
when you come across my children, which I hope you will,
please tell them that you knew me and that all
I cared about was them. The fact that a crooked
solicitor and a rotten psychiatrist destroyed me between them will
be of no importance to the children. I gave Bill
shaned Kid, which is his brother in law. I gave

(48:51):
Bill shann Kid an account of what actually happened. But
judging by my last effort in court, no one yet
yet alone a sixty seven year old judge would believe.
And I no longer care except that my children should
be protected. Yours ever, John. So he's basically saying whatever
happened at the house was some weird coincidence that he
happened upon his excuses that and I think there was

(49:14):
a It was in a different letter that he walked
into the house and his wife was being attacked by
an intruder, which the wife is like, no, I'll tell
you exactly how it happened, like step by step. Yeah,
and then also you can trace it all back to
the car and the blood everything else way so they
put out a warrant for his arrest a couple days later,

(49:35):
and in his absence, the inquest into Rivet's death named
him as her murderer, which was the last time ever
that Britain's Corner's Court was ever allowed to do that.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
So they were basically like, this guy did.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
It, oh, which you can't do a trial.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah, So a thorough search of new Haven Downs was
judged impossible. I don't know if that's what new Haven Downs?
What's a thorough search anything in this fucking world life.
I pictured new Haven Downs to be just full of
a bunch of brambles, charming as fun. It's like the Moors,

(50:14):
but brambley brambles everywhere, brambles and scones or scones SCons.
A partial search was made using tracker dogs, although all
that was found were the skeletal remains of a judge
who had disappeared years earlier.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I'm sorry, what yes?

Speaker 2 (50:30):
Yes, So they when they do search new Haven Downs,
this impossible to search area? They unrelated, unrelatedly, they find
skeletal remains of a judge.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
All right, maybe.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Maybe how about once a year you search new Haven Downs,
get some fucking puppies out there, yet.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
They love doing it. Give them a run around. It's
fun for them. Find a judge.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Police Divert searched the harbor, so basically they went everywhere
and tried to find this guy.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
This guy's more important than a fucking judge, right, clearly.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
He's a way bigger deal. He is among the top
ten backgame and players in the world. You have to
find him, must find him. They don't find so basically
they can't find anything. They used infrared photography and they don't.
I don't see where smart cars, they smartphones. So warrant

(51:23):
for Lucan's arrest to answer charges of murdering Sandra Rivet
and attempting to murder his wife was issued on Tuesday,
November twelfth, nineteen seventy four, and descriptions of his parent
appearance were issued to Interpol, so it could be Internacio
now and of course all across the UK, so apparently

(51:46):
it's this. It's all since that time been a great
British pastime to theorize where Lord Lucan is, and people
love saying they saw him, so the reports have been
coming in pretty consistently year after year saying I saw
Lord Luke and Harre or there and so.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
Some of the places.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
They have reported him seeing him was as a hippie
dropout in Goa, which I don't know.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
I don't know where that is doubt where he was known.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
They said he was known there as jungle Berry, as
you do, the best nickname of all time, is it?
They said he was about backpacking out Mount Etna. Someone
said they saw him working on a sheep station in
the Australian outback.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Those all sound like things people who run away from
life would do, yeah to get as far away as possible,
like trying to not have an identity anymore, which would
make sense.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
But John Aspinall, who was the owner of the Claremont
Gaming Club, which is the place he used to go
like around lunchtime every single day, said told the News
I find it difficult to imagine him in Brazil or
Haiti as a fugitive. I don't think he has the
capacity to a day app which is kind of rough.
There was also a rumor Aspinall owned a private zoo,

(53:07):
and so there was a rumor that he was cut
up and fed to the tigers at that zoo, and
he Aspinall, when told that rumor responded, My tigers are
only fed the choicest cuts. Do you really think they're
going to eat stringy old lucky?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
The most plausible theory is that he drowned himself in
the channel. That's what most people think. But here's this
is just an interesting, another coincidental thing. Thirteen years later.
So when they had that nanny, that Sandra Rivett was

(53:46):
their nanny, but they had had a nanny right before her,
and her name was Crista Belle. I can't find her
last name, well, Crysta Bell Bell, Yeah, you don't see it,
but her name is Christabel something or other. And turns
out she was married to an economist named Nicholas Boyce

(54:10):
and on October tenth, nineteen eighty five, Nicholas Voice was
sent to prison for dismembering his wife and dumping her
pieces of her body around London. Uh so it was her,
the nanny one before this one got caught up. Also
was murdered by her fancy husband.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
Uh So, fancy husbands are just fucking running them up.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
They went nuts so crazy, sure, which I thought was
Oh and also, uh, they convicted him of manslaughter but
not murder, and he was sentenced to six years in jail.
Oh that's not big deal, man, it's no big Just
just kill her and throw her arms and legs around
the city and then yeah, so she di noto, that's

(54:58):
the story. Oh sorry, it was Christa Bell thirty two
was a former governess of the children of Lord Lucan
who vanished without a trace after another nanny was battered
to death at his home.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Do you think he did it?

Speaker 4 (55:11):
What killed Lucan or whatever the fuck killed the second nanny?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
The first nanny? Oh?

Speaker 4 (55:15):
Hell yes? Wait both nannies? No, no, no, no, the
second one got killed by her husband.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Oh okay, later, okay, that was later on thirteen years later,
the second nanny gets killed in what is a coincidence
but is super creepy because what the fuck is going on?
I thought it was the first? Okay, yeah, no, but
the first. I'm sure the way everything oh yeah adds up.
It's just basically, where did he go after? Did he
immediately kill himself or did he actually go he's dB Cooper, Yeah,

(55:42):
did he shave that luxuriant mustache off and go live
somewhere for a while. You could go anywhere you want
back then, and also with all his money. Oh bye
charming and you know miss dapper. He probably means like
Monte Carlo or something.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
That's what I was thinking too. How old is he now?
How old was he's dead?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Now that he was proclaimed to be dead, I don't know,
Like how old would he be like in his the
article that I said where they proclaimed him dead, I
think they said he was like would have been eighty
one or eighty two.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
That's livable, especially if you're living the fucking backham in
high life and fucking Monty.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
Carlo Lacama doesn't take that much out of you.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
No, yeah, now, and if you're just pickled with gin,
you can live for a really long time that you
he's still alive.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
I mean, it would be pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
We should make a rule that people have to confess
stuff on their death, like on their deathbed, they have to.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
Confess things, yeah, like you're not.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, that'd be nice, wouldn't it, Just to solve a
couple of mysteries like stot don't take shit to your grave? Yeah,
you're bring a selfish dick.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
So that's my good times? Uh, I was amazing class
murder mystery from England.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Never heard that one.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Please let us know all the mistakes from that one
as soon as you can or out.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Or go go uh you know, every time you get
mad at this podcast, go give three dollars to Wikipedia.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
We're going to solve all of Wikipedia's problems and it's
gonna be like they're gonna be like, thank you.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
We got an influx of thousands and thousands of so
much money.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Okay, and we're back from your story. I still can't
believe they just found a judge. Yeah, the skeletal remains
of a judge.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
But okay, I.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Mean wild There are some updates for this story.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Okay, not on Lord Lucan.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
But Sandra Rivett had a son who she gave up
for adoption when he was a baby. So Neil Berryman
didn't learn of his biological mother until she was an adult,
but he did know that her death was one of
the biggest murder mysteries of all time. He believes Lord
Lucan was the murderer and that he escaped to Africa,
so he's continued to search for him. Spent years working

(57:53):
with former BBC investigative journalist Glenn Campbell.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Not to be mistaken for the singer.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
You can see that investigator Journey on a BBC series
from twenty twenty four called Luken.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Yeah, so I feel like if his body was never found,
he was still alive, you know, Yes, I just don't
buy it.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
Also, when people have money to run, like they can
do a lot, yeah and get away, especially back then
when there was no like internet, no nothing.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah, there was no like CCTV footage and like facial
recognition software.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
You're just fucking gone.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
And that guy like he grows a pencilvan mustache, or
he maybe already had one, but he grows a different
kind of mustache and then just goes into the mountains,
like in France somewhere, and he's gone forever.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Like, do you think it's better to disappear into like
a crowded, anonymous city or a smaller like woodsy town city? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Right, I think like you get yourself a little walk
up apartment in the Lower East Side of New York, Yeah,
and you dye your hair some weird color.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Nobody, no I do, we'll ever find you.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Yeah, Because if you're in a small town, you know everyone,
everyone knows everyone. Some stranger coming into town is immediately suspicious,
just because why would you move into this small town
by yourself.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Immediately people are talking about you if you're at the
grocery store, all of a sudden they're like, who is
this inner loper?

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Unless what's that little like weird shanty town in like Joshua.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
Tree, Oh, twenty nine palms, No.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Army base.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
I don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
You don't move to an army base.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
There's like a weird it's bill totally beyond you in
that army base.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
It's like a twenty nine palm Salton Sea type of
like town, shanty town where like it's off of the.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Grid when people go there to get away, that's what
it's slab city.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Oh I've heard of that.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah, it's like really like graffiti and you can kind
of live off the grid and live in your rvy
or you know, your home that you made, your tent
or your car.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Is that where you'd go for your escape? Where would
you go to escape forever?

Speaker 1 (59:56):
I'm not telling anyone, but if you really wanted to
find second, I guess I have today, you know, maybe yeah,
maybe somewhere in Europe just to have something new and exciting,
because I just be like, I'm going to Baltimore.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
It's like I would be like, I want to go
home now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Not that I don't want to be in Baltimore, but
it's like not different enough to be super exciting that
you're on the run.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yes, it wouldn't feel like hidden enough. I feel like
I could definitely go to Pittsburgh. I would London perfectly.
Love the vibe there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
All right, So I'll be in Baltimore, you'll be in Pittsburgh, and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
We'll call each other on the phone and talk like
this to each other. I don't know what this accent is,
but this is what I'm going to use.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
It works.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
How about we all of us listening meet at the
Plumber's Arms in London, which.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Is still bill open, Still open, the Plumber's Arms, I mean, guys,
that's in the beautiful part. Yeah. British pubs are kind
of forever, or at least fight like hell to be forever.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, and they won't turn you in. That's some like nope,
don't ask, don't tell, especially if you're good at trivia night.
That would never turn you in.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Also, just so you know, our writer Alison Augusti really
did a bunch of research and trying to find out
what that pink brown lipstick color was from the Crown.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
That's amazing, and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
There's a couple options. She thinks it's a Rodine Olio
Luso lipstick in a color so mod. I've never heard
that lipstick name before.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
That sounds like for rich people. I've never heard of that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
I feel like a brand, like a high end brand
that you've never heard of, whether it's like clothing or makeup. Yeah,
it's like, oh, that's Hailey Beaver's favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Yeah exactly, that's something they sell it like a counter
at Barney's.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Yeah, Varney's counter.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Totally. You're not going to the Americana like Macy's and
fucking picking that up next to the Chanella counter.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
No, they won't let you touch it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Actually, if you're anywhere near, all the women that work
there turn their back on you, like French Maids and
the sixteen hundreds. So now it's time to get into
Georgia's story the Summer Hill Road Murders.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Mmmmmmm, ready for the Summer Hill Road Murders.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
Yes, dude, this is one of these. This is one
of those ones I've wanted to do for so long.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Okay, all right, quick SIPs quicksip so Fayetteville, North Carolina.
It's near Fort Bragg. Let's talk about nineteen eighty five, Okay,
all right, So that Sunday, May twelfth, an army sergeant
named Bob Seefeldt and his wife noticed that the papers

(01:02:36):
were piling up on their neighbor store step and they.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
Were like, what's going on? And you know, we haven't
seen her.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
In a couple of days in her cars in the driveway.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
The people that were living there was a woman named
Catherine Eastbourne. She was the mother to five year old
Kara and three year old Aaron, as well as Jana,
who was twenty one months Her husband, it's been Gary
Eastbourne was away attending an Air Force Captain in training
school in Alabama, so he was out of town. They

(01:03:08):
knew that she's not fucking around. What's going on? They
heard a baby crying When they went to look at
the house. They look in a window and see Jana,
twenty one month old, standing by herself in her crib.
Her arms were outstretched to them that for some reason,
fucking Bob is like, let's wait till the cops get
here before we break in. The cops get there, they

(01:03:31):
break in, they find Jana. She's severely dehydrated, so dehydrated,
and when I fucking I remember hearing this a while
back that I think of that it all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Her teeth were black. Oh, and she had hours left
to live.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Oh my god, I know. They passed her through the
window to the neighbor and then they go to look
through the rest of the house. So in the master
bedroom they find the five year old Aaron, lying on
the floor by the bed. Her throat's been cut. On
the other side of the bed is Katie the mom.

(01:04:04):
She's bound with rope, her blouse and brapulled apart. She's
naked from the waist down. Her throat is cut and
she has multiple stab wounds to her body. I know,
fucked up.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
Shit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Yeah. Two doors down from the bedroom they find Kara,
the three year old. It's really awful. She's stabbed to
death as well. She's under her blanket. It looks like
she's almost like hiding under her blanket and she's stabbed
it a and also Katie the mom was raped, all

(01:04:39):
three heads severed throats. Bill, I know, guess what day
it was that they found her. Mother's day nineteen eighty five.
All right, So the witnesses. So, one neighbor says he
saw a man leave there a home at about three am,
after the murders are thought to have taken place, based
on you know, the atops. She said she saw a

(01:05:02):
white Chavette park near the crime scene. Then a man
who lived in the area named Patrick Kohane and approaches
and says that he saw a man leaving the residence
three nights before when the murder was supposed to happen.
And he says, quote, I was walking home from my
girlfriend's house about three thirty am. As I was walking,
I saw a white Chavette parked on the road. Then

(01:05:23):
I saw this white dude walking down the lady's driveway.
I passed right by him and he said, I'm getting
an early start this morning or something like that. Then
I watched him get in his white Chavette and drive off.
He describes the man very thoroughly. He's six 't four, blonde,
he had on at black beanie at black member's only jacket,

(01:05:45):
white shirt, blue jeans, had was like carrying a bag
over his shoulder.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
It just makes me think of that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Did you see that that infographic where it said like
in your life, you'll walk by a murderer thirty six times.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yes, that was one of the thirty six.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
I think so or so in the thirties, it was
so it's so high, I know for that it just
made me think, oh, that's scary, it's horrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
So three days after the murders, the cops find out
that three that a couple of days before the family
had been killed, they had put in a classified ad
to get their dog adopted because they were leading the country.
So this katie is by herself at home and a
man answers the ad and comes and gets the dog

(01:06:34):
during the day and they are like, who the fuck
is this dude. Here's a composite sketch. They put it
on the fucking news. The man who adopted the dog,
his name is Tim Hennis, was watching the news that
night and was like, shit, that's the dog we adopted,
and I look a lot like that sketch. So he

(01:06:56):
goes to the police. He answers all their questions, He
and get an attorney. He gives them samples of hair, blood, semen, everything.
He just he's really cooperative. But he drives a white chevette.
Oh no, yeah, they let him go because they don't
have enough evidence to arrest him, but later the night
they go back with a warrant for him and arrest him.

(01:07:20):
So the night that they thought the women got or
the mom and the kids got killed. So Tim Hennis
had dropped his wife and their daughter off at his
parent in law's. Then he drives to an ex girlfriend's
house propositions her. She shoots him down. He says he
went home a dinner, watch TV, and went to bed

(01:07:42):
the Friday morning. They thought that was Thursday night. The
morning after, he takes a single item to the dry cleaners,
a black member's only jacket. Dude. The only things that
were stolen from the house, it seems, are a debit
card and some cash, and so one hundred and fifty
dollars is taken out twice. That's the limit, so three

(01:08:03):
hundred dollars. And it turns out that Tim Hennis is
three hundred dollars short on rent, which he pays the
Monday after these murders. Then a woman identifies him as
being the man she saw at the same time that
she was there at the atm all right, so a
forensic expert goes in there, he six months later finds

(01:08:27):
a condom package undiscovered by the police, underneath the dresser.
So he fucking finds a condom wrapper. So, according to
him and his forensic expertise, he says that the condoms
suggests consensual sex because very rarely did a rapist carry

(01:08:50):
condoms to commit their violent acts, which I want to
fucking call bullshit on immediately.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
In the eighties they probably thought that. But of course
you don't want to leave or any behind.

Speaker 4 (01:09:02):
I just don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
I just hate that argument that, well, if there was
a condom on, then you had time to fight, or
it was consensual somehow.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
Oh no, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Like that that pisces me off.

Speaker 4 (01:09:13):
Well, yeah, that's insanity, that's what he says.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
He said that. So the man Paul Stambach concludes that
the murders were committed by two assailants and that the
little girls might have been killed because they could identify
the killer. But he says someone said that they they
were killed because they could identify the killer. But he
says that the girls were asleep when when they got killed. Okay,

(01:09:43):
So this dude, Tim Hennis goes to trial and the
jury returns with a guilty verdict, and he sentenced to
three life sentences.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
Oh shit, yeah, no, no, no, I'm sorry. He sent
to death three times?

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Oh my gosh. Yeah, because they're pissed. They're like, yeah,
you killed little girls. Yeah yeah, setting an example. Right
when he's getting booked, he receives a postcard, this guy's
Tim Hennis, from someone calling themselves mister X, and it says,
dear mister Hennis, I did the crime. I murdered the Eastbourns.
Sorry you're doing the time. I'll be safely out of

(01:10:24):
North Carolina when you read this. Thanks mister X. Fuck you,
mister X.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
Right, who is that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
And the prosecution got that too, Who is that?

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Who is that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Mister X? So he's on death row for two years
and then the defense is arguing to get him out
of you know, to get this conviction overturned. They argue
that the crime scene photos that the jury saw were
so gruesome and awful that it swayed the jury's decision,
and his conviction is overturned in nineteen eighty nine, and

(01:10:59):
they he gets sent back for a retrial. So he's
convicted and then it's overturned and he goes back for
a retrial.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
What sorry, but how can a picture sway?

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Like just having to look at that, there was no
way that they could then get from there and make
a decision.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
They put up these huge photos of it, you know,
over his head, and we're hammering, you know, the crime
scene photos, the autopsy photos of little girls. Oh no,
we're hammering at home and saying, you know, there was
no there was no way the jury would would not
want to convict someone for doing this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Well, and also the jury was traumatized by having to
be sorry at that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Yeah, I feel so bad for those people. So I mean,
what do you think about that being overturned on those
based on that?

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
I mean, you know, it just immediately makes me think
of the staircase and like those people where when we
think of like the prosecutor, you give them all this credit,
like you think, oh, these are going to be people
who are presenting a faircase fairly as opposed to people
who have an immediate bias and want to win their
case and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
An agenda thing to do it. Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
I mean, and if you think about the the evidence
against him, we really don't have anything other than you know,
some witness statements and the fact that he was there
a couple of days beforehand getting the dog. Yeah, he
has no alibi that night.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
It's bad news for him because it's almost like you
were presenting it in a way where I was like, oh,
this poor guy. But then the more things you said,
I was like, it's totally that gould you. It's so obvious.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Yeah, it's the Oukham's razor thing, right, it's like this,
there's no, it's not can't be a coincidence. Well, that's
why I love this case. It's fucking It gets worse, Okay,
don't worry, it gets worse. So at his second trial,
all the witnesses are wishy washy, and the prosecution argues
this and that, you know, and they break under pressure

(01:12:55):
and so it's kind of all convoluted. And then the
defense for Tim Hennis were able to find a dude
who Okay, so this dude would walk the neighborhood late
at night. He was six four sam Hi, this Tim Hennis,

(01:13:17):
and he admitted to always wearing a member's only jacket,
a black beanie, a white T shirt, and dark corduroy
pants and carrying a book bag over her shoulder. He
walks in the courtroom. He's a spitting fucking image of
Tim Hennis. No, yes, no, yes, a right spitting image.
Somehow this dude a agreed to fucking do this.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say, wouldn't you
be like, I think it's time for me to move
to San Francisco?

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Goodbye. So Tim Hennis acquitted on all accounts, conviction overturned, acquitted.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Now sorry, but they're not. They didn't prosecute that guy.
They were just saying it's possible. Yeah, that's something they
saw someone else.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
They kind of like all the like, all the eyewitnesses
they were able to discredit for whatever reason. Okay, so
there was, you know, nothing really tying him to the murder.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
And members only jackets were crazy popular in nineteen eighty five.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
That's that's true. Fifteen tall blonde men wearing members only jackets.
Oh my god, there were so many of them everywhere. Yeah, okay,
let's go all right, this is eighty nine. Let's go
to two thousand and seven. Okay, DNA is a thing now, God,
thank fucking god. So there's DNA inside Kate, the mom

(01:14:33):
who had been raped, although they didn't They didn't specifically
say that she had been forcibly raped because the condom theory.
But there was semen inside of her, right, so the
condom could have nothing to fucking do with any of this.
The results of the DNA task from the semen inside
of Kate showed with with twelve million to one certain

(01:15:00):
that the semen belonged to Tim Hennicks. Oh no, right,
but he had already been acquitted. Oh no, some motherfucking
double jeopardy, right. Uh So double jeopardy is prohibited by
the Fifth Amendment. It means that you can't get tried

(01:15:21):
for something that you'd already been acquitted for. Yes, which
seems like it needs to be fucking fixed and it's stupid.
But no, no, no, I mean considering DNA now like
in this situation.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
But that's no, it's a good law because it's like
saying they can't just keep on coming at you and
being like we did, we believe it's you, like if
they've proven yeah, if if you put it, come through it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
But in a perfect system, when those prosecutors go to
the judge with new evidence, the judge will will will
you know, judge that evidence and say whether or not
it's you know, it's it's worth a new trial.

Speaker 4 (01:15:58):
But they'll never be a perfect system because it's a
huge mensis.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
That's the problem with life.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
So you can't just keep on going like, well.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Here we're gonna do it again, and this time it's
gonna because then it could just be like if you
had a crazy prosecutor.

Speaker 4 (01:16:09):
That won't leave you alone.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Well, guess what they did it a third time? What
they took him to trial? How well, I'll fucking.

Speaker 5 (01:16:16):
Tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:19):
How I ask as if I'll never find out, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
Thanks, This is the end of my story. Okay, So
Tim Hennis had been a soldier in the US Army,
so the the state can't try him, but the army can. Oh,
the military can because he'd been a soldier. The US
Army could could, and the federal government is a sovereign

(01:16:46):
authority separate from the individual states that make up the country. Okay,
So Tim, at this time, Tim Hennis, who's forty nine
years old, retired as fuck from the Army, just chillaxing.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
Chilling his fuck murdering entire family.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
So he's retired, and this is a big fucking point
of contention, he is ordered out of retirement and back
into active duty just so they could court martial him
for the murders. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Seems unfair, right, I mean, just if a devil's advocate,
if he was innocent.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Unprecedented. Yeah, Like and this argument of like who has
final say, are you bigger than the fucking you know,
it's government shit.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
It's government shit. If the government wants you, they're gonna
get you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
You fucked. So at the at the fucking uh court
martial trial, uh, his attorney, Tim Hennison's attorney brings up
the possibility because they had found semen in Hvragina that
maybe they had had consensual sex, even though he had
never admitted to that and he didn't say that, the
attorney did, and the fucking jury was like, are you
like that's what you're bringing up now? So they find

(01:17:55):
him guilty on three counts of premeditated murder. But guess what,
the statute of limitations expired on rape, so he didn't
get Can we please talk about statute of limitations on rape?

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
I feel like they're getting rid of that. I feel
like there's some stays where they've gotten rid of it. Yeah,
it's in action. I believe it's just I just want
to bring it up. How fucking disgusting that is. No,
you're exactly right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
It just makes me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
In the same exact way that it's disgusting that Mike
Pence wants women to have funerals for their fetus, for miscarriages. Miscarriages.
It's truly insanity. It's hurtful and mean and fucking it's spiteful,
and it's assuming. It's just so controlling and insane. It's

(01:18:41):
so controlling. Okay, found guilty. Uh So, now he's on
death row, like right, fucking now, this is in twenty ten.
He's on death row in an army facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Okay, Now,
let's get show a couple of random things before we
decide everything.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
Okay, okay, Okay. So in his case, there's no blood, fingerprints,
or fiber evidence that connects him to the murder, and
he has an alibi for the ATM visit, which is
a little shaky. I'm not saying he didn't do it.
I'm just saying, like, here's some weird shit I really
don't know. Right. Two former FBI assistant directors released a

(01:19:20):
report concluding that the unit that the unit that had
tested his DNA and found that it was in her
vaginal swab, that they had overstated, misreported, or withheld blood
evidence in dozens of cases, including three that ended in executions.

(01:19:41):
Oh no, they uh the okay, this quote. They had
to throw out cases and cases because the results were
either doctored wrong or covered up. The lab was shown
to be a total tool for the state's prosecutors.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Oh no, wait and this was in sorry, this was
in North Carolina. Uh yeah, okay or Kansas.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
One. I don't want to be wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
You started in North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
Yeah, but now but he's in Kansas.

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
Oh, because of easy gotta got it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
All right, So let's really so basically, they're just like,
we're going to send this off to here and get
exactly what we want back. Yeah, and they're proven to
be incorrect, but we're not gonna check back in with
those crimes. And I'm pretty sure those swabs were held
in a box that were unrefrigerated. That on the box
of evidence said Tim Hennis's name, not the name of

(01:20:33):
the murder victims. Like they were already fucking targeting him.
They were focusing on him. Yes, this is what they
wanted to find. Okay, all right, So finally I just
want to talk about Julie, who was the family babysitter
up the three little girls. When they interviewed her, she

(01:20:55):
told the cops that the residents had been targeted with
harassing phone calls, some of the sexual nature, and she
said other two other things that her stepbrothers strongly resembled
Tim Hennis and even showed them photos of it, and
that she had been assisting the vice squad and setting
up bus from local for local drug dealers. And she

(01:21:17):
even said on one occasion that she'd been followed home
from the Eastbourne residence by an angry drug dealer. Okay,
but here's the coolest thing, not coolest felling morse. So
she admits to her fascination. She's like a sixteen year
old a fascination with doctor Jeffrey MacDonald. Is that?

Speaker 4 (01:21:36):
What's that? It's the one who was accused.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Right, yeah, so he so he's a military officer. He
claims a band of drug craze long haired hippies broken
to his home while he was sleeping on the couch,
murdered his pregnant wife and two and five year old daughters. Yes,
sounds familiar, right, Yeah, while he uh upstairs, he's convicted
of the slow sentenced to death. At the time of

(01:22:02):
the murders the family, it was nineteen seventy, so it
was clearly, you know, fifteen years difference. But at the
time of the murders, the McDonald family lived four and
a half miles from the fucking East Corn home. What. Yeah,
And this girl who was the babysitter of these three
little girls, was fascinated and writing him letters and they
were communicating in prison, and her fucking siblings looked exactly

(01:22:26):
like these guys, and she believed he was innocent. They
wrote all the time they had the Deea had set
up a drug deal using Julie, this girl Julie and
the victim's house that weekend that fell through and the
murders happened, no way, right, Well, she was obsessed with him.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Apparently she was obsessed with Jeffrey McDonald's Yeah, doctor Jeffrey.

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
Yeah, wait that girl.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Okay, the babysitters Like, what a rich life she's living
because she's setting up like she's trying to do like
drug stings.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Yeah, I mean, and she's sixteen. Yeah, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Now also, did she was that a secret to the
family that she's like setting these stings.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Up for I don't think the family knew, but she
like fucking blabbed the cops immediately about all this stuff.
Oh my fucking god, I know, right, Like the it's
just too crazy that the murders are so similar.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
What's your theory? Like, Oh, with all of that, I'm
just saying, do you think he's innocent or guilty?

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Oh? You know me, I can go fucking either way.
I think it's that thing of like I don't know
if he's involved or not, but I don't know if
he should be in prison or not. I don't know.
I don't know. It's too circumstantial to me. And the
fact that they didn't get DNA until two thousand and seven,

(01:23:52):
especially if there was a condom rapper and that was
their theory.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Was it a common rapper or was it a used
condra I think it was a condom rapper, So it
was just basically proof that there was a condom somewhere in.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Yeah, And the forensic guy was like, I don't know
the sex life between the husband and wife, but this
was there right. So if you're introducing a condom wrapper
and semen oh and oh no, wait hold on, there
was like a towel that had blood on it. There
were all these. There was a shoe print that was

(01:24:23):
a size nine and tim was a size thirteen. In blood,
there was all these. It points to to at least
I know there are more than one. There's more than
one murderer, yeah, or more than one person. Yeah. So
either he did it with someone else or you know,
someone thought there was money in the house. They knew

(01:24:44):
this woman was alone. The thing.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
To me, the idea of killing children, slashing, stabbing children
to death and slashing there, that's a person who is
beyond like right, that's a person that is that's no,
that's a person that's not motivated by money or drugs
because I feel like those people or that has to
be a person that's maybe on drugs bear men's And.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Then you think about the fact that they left the
twenty one month old alive because she couldn't identify anyone,
and you think, okay. At first, I was like, well,
they must know the assailant, They must know the killer,
otherwise he wouldn't have had to you know, if they
just went in there to rob and rape and even
kill the mother, right they unless. But then the forensic
dude said that they were sleeping, which I don't completely

(01:25:33):
buy because I guess she was like cowering under her
Star Wars blanket, I know, which is heartbreaking. Well yeah,
I mean it's like, you don't why why you don't
kill children if you're just right, Because even even burglars
are just like I just want to steal shit, You
don't kill children. You don't go from from stealing fucking

(01:25:55):
money to killing children, right.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
And and you don't even if you're retally against someone
like a stool pigeon.

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
Who is this sixteen year old girl? What does a
five year old have to do with that?

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
And then and who has the fucking like ice cold
in their veins to be able to kill two children
and the mother?

Speaker 4 (01:26:17):
And then why would you leave the right child like it?
All of it is like so random.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
It just to me what makes sense is that the
girl told information to the wrong people. Maybe she had
nothing to do with it, and she was obsessed with it.
I mean, maybe she did, the fact that she was
obsessed with this killer who killed who maybe killed you know,
and that's a whole nother fucking my favorite murder because
I think we've both.

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
Talked about that one. How Eryl Morris thinks he's innocent. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Mean that's a whole yeah sucking episode.

Speaker 5 (01:26:47):
But it's too.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Similar to the fucking murderer she was obsessed with, right,
And maybe he's not the murderer and or innocent man
she's obsessed with, because there is the there.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
Why, but there's still the They're still so similar, Yes,
very similar.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
That's crazy. Now, it's such a personal thing to stab
somebody to death. It's such an angry thing and such
as we all know, that's like a personal attack. Where
has the husband in any way been introduced into this mix.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
No, Gary is a fucking saint and a good guy.
He he and his he raised Janna. She's fucking amazing
and wonderful. Like he has nothing to do with it, right, right,
Okay for sure? Just I know it seems like he
should and you'd look into it, but I don't. I
really don't think he does.

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
They always, you know, the husband, The husband's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
The first hot and then I wonder, like, okay, so
stabbing is a really personal thing and that but that's
that's not as gruesome as something like slitting someone's throat,
Like those are two very different fucking Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
But I would argue it's more gruesome because you could
one stabbing because it's repeated, whereas slitting someone's story you
can do it and walk away and know that they're
going to bleed out and die.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
But have you ever like punch someone and you're like
I really like mid punch, or like I don't want
to do this, and so you kind of do it
like weekly like weak?

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
No, No, I mean I've never punched anyone. I don't think, Oh,
go ahead him in the face. Let's do an experiment
right now. But I mean, it wasn't it multiple?

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
I mean, cut someone's throat hard enough to fucking kill them.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
I feel like takes more effort than than someone who
doesn't really want to be doing this, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Like, I know, but you don't want to be doing it.
You're not going to then lightly stab multiple times? Like
that's the That's the thing is, it wasn't. If it
were to me, a slashing someone's throat is similar to
it's like you don't have a gun, it's similar to
like a kill shot. In the back of the head
where you're just getting it overworth it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
And incapacitate them by stabbing them and then you slip
their throats just fucking end it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
But the stabbing part is the part where you get involved.
And that's why why would you even go.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
Through that unless you want to, Yeah, unless you're okay
with the idea of fucking stabbing a human. Also, also,
she kind of looked like my mom the mom Kate did. Yeah,
I had that, like, uh.

Speaker 4 (01:29:22):
Some lady's mom hair. Yeah, yeah, sorry, go on, no, no, no,
uh no.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
I'm just thinking, like, it's just so crazy the fact
that they had two witnesses for a person that was
leaving the house at three am, you know what I mean.
And also, how can it be that many coincidences where
it's like he was there, he had the same car,
he had the same clothes.

Speaker 4 (01:29:42):
He went there a couple days before knew she was
alone in the house. Yeah, that's not good for him.
I don't think so either.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
It doesn't. The coincidences that would have to happen for
that to happen are fucking insane. He gets what people
think online like webs loots is like the coolest fucking
website and they're like discussing it, which is all over
Killing Season, by the way, it's there, like they talk
about webslues the whole that's awesome. Yeah. So they're like, well,
he went to his ex girlfriend's house that night, got

(01:30:11):
turned down for boning and was like horny as fuck.
Knew a woman who was home alone, went over there,
she turned him down, and he fucking flipped.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
Yeah, that's a theory. Yeah, and he's like enraged at women.
He's like on a mission.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
But he's never, according to everyone else, the rest of
his life, he's been a fucking decent human being. Right.
He does have some some check forging charges, but that's
not the same thing as Oh, but that's something that's well,
it's not a totally clean record. That's not being like

(01:30:48):
a decent being human being. That means check forging is
like you're willing to cheat to get money. Yeah, it's
something I feel like. That's the way I look. Some
people start, yeah, and then you need to cover your
tracks and shit.

Speaker 4 (01:31:01):
Yeah, oh my god, I don't know. That's crazy. I
don't and horrible in so many ways.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
Those poor little babies, Oh that's what I wanted to
end on Actually is that I wanted to end with
talking about the victims because it's like, I don't want
to end on this fucking dick. So Gary, the dad,
the father, and the dad. The tombstones that he had
them etched with. So so Aaron, Okay, so m hmmm.

(01:31:33):
Aaron who's three years old, he had tiny Dancer written
on her tombstone. For Kara, who was five, he had
Daddy's little shadow. And for Catherine, his wife, he had
you were the sunshine of my life. I just wanted
I just didn't want to end on something that wasn't
tragically said. I just wanted to mention them at the end.

Speaker 4 (01:31:56):
No, totally, you know what I mean. Of course, I mean, yes, absolute,
but no, that's Karen. Please please tell me what happened. Okay,
here's what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Please only that guy I got a dog and that
dog was a piece of shit and he was pretty
pissed off. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
This theory falls apart. No, that's maddening.

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
And it's the kind of thing when it introduces the
idea that DNA evidence can't be trusted, that the system
can't be trusted, that an entire prosecutor's office can't be trusted.
Then it doesn't really matter what answers you come up with,
because nothing ever feels like an answer to me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
The period on the sentence is that there is so
many other DNA hits in that house that there's no
way that the story they're telling us is what happened.
Blood on a towel from like after killing them. It
looks like it was cleaned up. There's a pubic hair

(01:32:53):
in the fucking living room. There's bloody footprints, there's fibers
that and DNA under their under two of their fingernails
that don't match to him. Oh, there's DNA under their fingernails,
and for some reason they refuse to put it through codis.
That's very weird, isn't it just because they don't want

(01:33:15):
to introduce something it doesn't match? Yeah? Oh man, So yeah,
that's the Summer Hill Road murders that has fucking stuck
with me for years and years.

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
That's crazy. That's amazing. Yeah, wow, Hi, Hi, how are you?

Speaker 1 (01:33:36):
I'm ruined?

Speaker 3 (01:33:36):
How are you?

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Yeah? Not great? No? Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:33:40):
Well, fascinating though, Yeah, isn't that well? Because they are.

Speaker 2 (01:33:45):
I just was reading something recently about how I think
it's the hair evidence. Was it hair evidence? Something is
being becoming more reliable than fingerprint.

Speaker 4 (01:33:57):
Something's more reliable.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
Yeah, they're starting to say the fingerprint evidence might not
be as reliable as they thought.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
It basically I think obviously we know that that forensic
science is still developing.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:34:12):
Yeah, but I just wish it would move ahead quick
so we could just find out. Because that's the confidence
of DNA evidence being the final word.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:21):
That's why my room goes Okay, well sorry, but it's
the evidence, so good we.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
Can do about it. Instead of knowing that humans deal
with that DNA from the moment it is picked up
as evidence at the scene. It's being picked up by
a human too, when it's tested in the lab, to.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
A lab being like own, yeah, prosecutor's office, it's like humans.
That's just horrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
I this is why I think that double jeopardy in
the age of DNA and retesting, in the innocence project
and all this, we might need to rethink that.

Speaker 4 (01:34:52):
I don't think so. No, well, because it's like saying
you get the one chance.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Well it's yeah, so it's show shitty that like you
know all these all these defense attorneys are I'm sorry,
all these prosecutors and cops. You know, when they can't
bring a trial, They can't bring someone to trial because
they don't have the body, you know, so they have
to wait until they find the body. Right. It's just.

Speaker 4 (01:35:16):
Dude, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
So you let this person go free? Or do you
try to fucking do you try without a body to
convict them?

Speaker 4 (01:35:23):
I mean, yeah, you have to do something.

Speaker 1 (01:35:25):
Yeah, and if it doesn't, if it doesn't go well,
then in ten years, when the DNA can be tested
or the body is found and the DNA is tested
and it matches, then you should be able to fucking
retry them.

Speaker 4 (01:35:37):
I disagree.

Speaker 1 (01:35:38):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
Pun me in the face, you'll see. That'll prove it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
All right, forensic scientists out there, keep doing what you're doing. Angels,
shout out tell us things that we do. Talking about
it sounds cool though. Ours are all just feelings, so
many feelings. Do you want to say a good thing
from your.

Speaker 1 (01:36:01):
Do I have one? Uh? Do I have a good
thing from my week?

Speaker 5 (01:36:06):
What do you have?

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
That's like when you're trying to order in a restaurant,
It's like, no, you can go ahead, you go ahead
and you hurse okay ten amount? Uh god, Well, you
know we last night, Alison AGSI and I went and
saw the movie Delicatessen, which is oh, that's it's from

(01:36:32):
like the late eighties.

Speaker 4 (01:36:33):
I think, or the Early Night. Oh that's a art
house film. It's a total art house film. And we
saw it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Sin a Family. I guess Sin a Family would be
my thing of the week because it makes me feel
smart to go there and like a film person, lomm
I'm into films. And but then also they have just
amazing movies where when you're sitting there, you go, oh,
that's why you have to see these movies on the
big screen. And Delicatessen was like the greatest whah, that's great.

Speaker 4 (01:37:02):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
Well last week was Thanksgiving and I guess just the
family and I had the like lamest best Thanksgiving and
it was awesome and so stupid and not fake. And
my like year old nephew is there and he's the
best fucking thing I've ever seen in my life.

Speaker 4 (01:37:20):
Kids are the greatest.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
Ah. He's an angel baby, as is my six year
old nephew. But you know he's not a baby, No,
he's moved into a different area. Yeah, but he's great too,
so I guess nephews Okay, nephews nice? Yeah, all right,
well rate review, subscribe. Yeah please, I mean we're not
that's not just fucking lip service. Please actually do that.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
That's not our lip service to you, fake asking. We're
genuinely yeah, if you don't mind, that'd be great and
just and just say sexy and don't get murdered a
goodbye Elvis.

Speaker 1 (01:37:54):
You want to cook key?

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
Oh, you want to cook key? He was sleeping? Okay,
bye Byeckable and we are back.

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
That story is like the definition of the line don't
worry it gets worse.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
Yes, you literally said it during the episode, and it
is like it starts terrible and just devolves from there.

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
It does.

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
It's one of those frustrating ones where you're like, I'm
not totally sure what happened because everything is so convoluted
and it didn't have to be that way.

Speaker 3 (01:38:32):
Yeah, what it is?

Speaker 4 (01:38:33):
Any updates on this?

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
Yeah, there are some random facts that I want to
update everyone on, and this one for condoms and rape
case investigations on that topic. The criminal justice system began
widely acknowledging that some rapists use condoms during their attacks.
In the nineteen nineties, they acknowledged that as forensic science
evolved in more cases highlighted this tactic. But before the
nineteen nineties, the absence of semen sometimes led investigators to

(01:38:57):
doubt whether an assault had even occurred, which we argue
in this case, or assume the attacker failed to ejaculate,
which is just a wild assumption either way that should
not be made at all. No, and then, as far
as the Statute limitations goes on rapes, several US states
have eliminated the statute of limitations for rape and other

(01:39:17):
felony sex crimes, Thank fucking God.

Speaker 3 (01:39:20):
Like God needs to be worldwide and the list is.

Speaker 1 (01:39:24):
Ever changing, so check out rain dot org for a
complete state by state guide. And as part of the
Justice for All Acts of two thousand and four, federal
crimes like rape on federal land or military basis, there's
no limitation if DNA evidence is involved.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
So that's a nice update.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
Yeah, that's good. So regarding the case with updates, Timothy
Hennes continues to sit on death row. His lawyers have
filed appeals challenging the Army's jurisdiction and citing constitutional double
jeopardy prohibitions. They also filed a writ for Serdi Orari
with the US Supreme Court, but as a twenty twenty one,
all of these have been denied.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
Okay, well, let's talk about our favorite part of this episode,
which is truly the name Funky Diva, the store of
Funky Diva, the history with Funky Diva, Georgia's life at
Funky Diva, perhaps our sliding doors moment where we were
both at Funky Diva at the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (01:40:21):
I believe that happened. I believe it's real.

Speaker 3 (01:40:24):
I bet it did, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:40:25):
Red string theory of like you're over here with your
choker trying to wring some people up. I'm over there
looking at Ringer t shirts. Yeah, and trying to figure
out a new joke for my set.

Speaker 1 (01:40:36):
That definitely happened, right, So it should be named Funky Diva.
But let's say we were going to change the name
today to name it something updated, maybe the wrong pea cast.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
The funniest thing of me loving it and then you
going like it's bits, Like admitting it immediately is the funniest,
because that's the funniest jokes that I ever say, are
always just my friends saying that I heard them say.

Speaker 3 (01:40:58):
It's so which I feel so guilty. I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
I mean, I love that you called yourself out, but
it's so hilarious because it's like something as simple as
pea cast.

Speaker 4 (01:41:06):
You're like, love vincence made that up?

Speaker 1 (01:41:08):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Yeah, of course we could also name it orange Junko Jeans,
or if you want to Orange Ganco Jeans.

Speaker 3 (01:41:14):
It has to be incorrect. No, it has to be incorrect.

Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
That's how I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:18):
And then my question to you always how about we
could call it? Is it British?

Speaker 4 (01:41:25):
And the answer is always yes, yes, always yes. That
was a great episode.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
Yeah you guys, thanks for listening to again, Thanks for
listening a second time maybe to this episode and the
first time to this episode rewind.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
Re Analysis, just really getting in there and taking a
fine tooth comb to this podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:41:42):
What a great celebration of our work.

Speaker 3 (01:41:44):
What could go wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
Stay sexy and don't get murdered?

Speaker 4 (01:41:50):
Good goodbye, Elvis.

Speaker 3 (01:41:53):
Do you want a cookie

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 45: Funky Diva