Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite! - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Us. Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Every Wednesday we recap our old episodes with all new commentary,
updates and insights.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
And today we're recapping episode forty six, which we named
Don't fast Forward. We named Skippers Unite. Skippers Unite.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
In these trying times, at least we can come together
on one issue, and that's skippers needing to shut up.
This episode came out on December eighth, twenty sixteen.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
And in honor of our skippers, let's get right into it.
Here's the intro of episode forty six. Say Hi, Hi,
how are you hi? Podcasting, podcasting, Go to do it? Podcasting?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
What if this was a podcast about podcasting, that could
be a thing that would be the end of us.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
What if this is a podcast about podcasts to talk
about podcasting?

Speaker 2 (01:09):
What it is a podcast about how to start a podcast?
And then we started listening to it and learn and
we're soon able to start a podcast correctly?

Speaker 1 (01:17):
That would be I think that would be detrimental to
our uh, to our brand, your brand, sorry, sorry, detrimental
to our personalities, detrimental to our rift styles. Yeah, well
this is all this is all scripted this part.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Isn't it weird how much we play it natural when
actually we're reading every word we're saying right now off
of large teleprompters. Georgia laugh out lot, Oh shit.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Karen, laugh even louder and clap your hands. Welok iuye ay,
Hey did you say bye? Cy?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Welcome to my favorite writer, Welcome to my favorite or
the podcast that asked the question why do people listen
to this and doesn't answer it and then talks about
other stuff. Yep, Yeah, are blessed? Blessed Stephen Ray Morris
brought me a gift today that you know, people who

(02:18):
know how to give a gift. Yeah, And it really
means a lot because like my own mother for years
at Christmas, I would open things and be like you clearly.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Wanted someone else as a child.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
I walked in tonight and there was a diet Coke
tall boy waiting for me on George's cocky table.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
He doesn't even he puts it in Karen's spot, like,
he doesn't even say like, hey, Karen, like handed to her.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Now.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's like then he did it when I, like I
came out and I was like, oh, like it's just
it's so sweet and so subtle, and it's like in
your spot. Thanks all those things, Steven.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And then on top of it, the things I want
the most, which are diet coke and quantity.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Steven's your new mommy, steeze my mommy. And also I
would call them Steve. And also.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Also when I was a young alcoholic, really ready to
take on the world through a slurry speech and secrets.
That's why man secrets no one wanted to hear I say.
I would drink Budweiser Tall Boys from the corner store.
They were cheap and they would get you like buzzed

(03:24):
enough so that you could still use money and not
like lose your lose money or lose your id.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Perfect buzz that you should have just ridden, but instead
you added to it always you know what I mean, Yeah,
two glasses of champagne. Here, I am fucking rock me,
like you know, and then like her, then I'm like,
well one more then yes, and then I'm like, oh yeah, stupid.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
And then I go two more. Now let's switch to Jamison's.
Now let's fight the doorman. That's why I had to
stop drinking. It would always go down this path where
I was like, wait.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Don't do that. Now it's not I thought you were like,
now it's on to gin. Nope, now I'm finding the door.
Now Duke's up.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Now it's like I'll kick you in the shin and
then tell you a secret.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh I'm plucky. I'm plucky, Karen.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I'm angry about things that don't make sense. I've had
every advantage in life, and I'm still mad.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
I want it all. So thank you, Steve, Thank you Steve.
Thanks for bringing back her memories.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Means the world. I'm glad, and thank you all for listening.
Yeah to my favorite murder. That's Karen, by the way,
and that's Georgia.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
George is still an alcoholic, Karen's an ex alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
It's all the same. No, I'm still I'm still an alcoholic.
You always are, yes, but you're not an alcoholic or
you would have fucked everything up right now.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I'm a practicing I'm a I went to a new
doctor today and I was like, naturiopath. I can't say
it natural natrio.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Path a homeopath, NA natural path, a natural path.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
And I was like, how do I explain to her? Like,
what's wrong with me? It's a lot wrong with me,
and I was like, oh, I know, and I'm a
very highly functioning mess. Oh that's it, that's it. Yes, yeah,
like I did she get it? Yes, she was great,
she got me awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Who can't say that, though? Who would say that about themselves?
People who aren't high functioning? Oh that's true, you know
that might be me or I'm like, I'm a mess
that also can't return phone.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Calls except you're you also clearly don't believe in yourself
because you're incredibly high functioning. Oh that's your a fucking
job and a hit podcast. She became that person, Lizzie Cooperman. Yeah,

(05:43):
speaking of Hey, we're on the iTunes fucking I know.
I think we have to cut down bad corner. It
gets me scared. I just wanted to thank everyone for listening.
You're right, because they wouldn't. We wouldn't be on this
if nobody listened. That's exactly right. That's what I wanted
to thank you guys. Yeah, thank you so much. By later,
that was brag corner. That was that was brag, but

(06:04):
but really embarrassed about a corner.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I have a lot of shame issues. That's what I
have to take to my nature path.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Brag shame issues, bragshame corner. Uh, that's you have to
take your natural path. I'm gonna take it down a
natural path to a pond. I'm gonna throw it down
in the pond of shame. Oh it's a beautiful pond.
It's such a gorgeous bottomless pond. I go voting there
like sail voating there. Sometimes I really enjoy myself on
the pond of shame. I bring am what do you parasol? Yes?

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Right, yeah, like a like a classy lady from the
twenty Yeah, shame, a classy, shameful person.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
That's me. That's me all over. What the corners do
you want to talk about? I guess should get ready
to show corner so, like the Skippers, don't get this.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Part tour corner to corner. Exciting announcement.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
We're gonna have a tour happening, you guys.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
We're somebody believes were legit because they had actually planned
and a semi not really nationwide tour for us and
perhaps slightly outside nature I mean America national.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
We're only going to national parks. That's where Karen's trying
to say, we're only doing shows in natural parks, and
we're trying we're trying to get disappeared out of a
natural park, like those weird stories where people disappear out
of natural parks and everyone the only you have to
chop down a tree if you're going to come. That's right.
We're going to basically chop down all the woods.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
We're going to go find the bad people in the woods. Yeah,
and we're going to live podcast murder them.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Have you heard the number of like how many do
we already talk about this? How many murderers are and
you've brought that up? What how many murderers are? Murders
happen in.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
National parks and the whole thing of children disappearing in
national parks.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
And it's like is it an animal or isn't it
a human animal? But if it's an animal, how did
they get so far away? Ten miles a clothing thing? Yeah, no,
there's no bones or spoor. Fuck, I know, we got
to do a fucking national park show.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
National park tour where we're dressed up in park ranger outfit.
Oh I look good and brown, I know, kind of
like I'll do a moss green thing that put on me.
But I'll wear a strong red lip and they'll be like,
I don't know, I like it anyway.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Type ponytails just because they're no nonsense.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
And those paths where it looks like we're writing people tickets,
that's like it's.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Love it just we can't get line disease. Hey, do
you guys want to know about our tour?

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Actually, should we talk about the thing we brought up now?
So we're gonna I guess we're gonna be a tour
from like January to April. Yes, but like the most
like we don't want to travel that much tour.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Like a weekend or tour. We should call it something
that we don't. We should call it we don't try
too hard tour, right, give us like three weeks and
we'll get a great name of a tour for you.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
We don't care about you. And it's a city we're
not going to. We don't care about it, do it?
Don't okay, okay, okay, and everyone's hard. Then we have
to go there because we're actually going to one of
the cities I said, I don't want to go to
fucking that's right? All right? Ready, okay, yes, do you
know what I've decided what I don't know, Ryan does
sound like a dick. But if we go overseas, I'm
fucking flying first clout. I'm flying myself first class. Oh

(09:15):
that's nice because you have all those anxieties about travel.
And my therapist was like, fucking spend a little extra money,
that's right, and it's okay, Like don't buy all the
word shit you buy.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
So save up, save up, and get one of the craziest,
most expensive.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
But that's true because I don't know how much it is.
Isn't really crazy. It's like it's going to be a
couple thousand dollars. Never mind, I thought it'd be like
a thousand. Maybe it'll it'll be.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Pretty expensive, especially if you're going to like Europe or Australia.
But like for Australia, you have to. I actually my father,
who is very frugal and very like no frills, no frills,
kill garaff, he was like, you have to because he
my mother and he loved Australia and they would go.
They went there a bunch and he was like, we

(09:58):
the first time we went, we flew over coach and
they came back executive class, which I think is just
like the cheap man's version.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
It's what it's what it used to be. It's what
normal flying used to be, is business class before they
smashed everybody together.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Anyhow, he basically said, the man who won't spend money
or anything, was like, you have to buy a first
class ticket. If you're going you're going to be in
a plane for that long. Treat yourself. It's completely worth it.
So don't feel bad. I'm doing it anyway.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Usal what else?

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Oh, I just saw the pictures on the Facebook of
the DC meetup.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Did you look at it? Did you look at the
cocktails they made? Yes? Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Did you now the cocktail that was the Karen is
exactly my person?

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Shut up, And I don't know who that person is.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
But it was literally like Scotch drambooie coffee and like
it was pretty middle finger.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
It made me so happy. It was pretty legit. Wait,
let me read the menu, because the menu was so good,
so it was called that. It just said. The menu
was called drinks and underneathing in parentheses is not drink
with older people to fucking love. And then the beer
on draft was called stay out of the forest and
drink local beer. Then the beer in the bottle was
Toxic Masculinity. Yeah, and then they had the boot the

(11:12):
cocktails was called I'm going to go get some juice.
In case you're new to this, these are all things
that have come out of our faces. So there was
a Georgia which I loved, pepper spray first, the fuck politeness,
the fuck everyone, the sweet honesty, and the Karen Coffee
Scotch vodka, Jesus Rambooie chocolate bitters. I bet that was
fucking good. I mean, and you need one.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
It's truly like and I would have drank three. It's
really I really identified with the Karen.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
And then their Jellos shot of the Week was called
round Shit.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, thank you guys, Thank you DC. That's hilarious and
it's very exciting. Although I like, what's that? Why are
we going to d c oh? I won't for political reasons.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
I'm just kidding. For a minute, I was like, Oh, no,
you're Karen. Yeah, I don't have.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, I'm not sure. I guess he's just like booking
the places he's booked.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, this might be our first kind of tour. Yeah,
I mean, we're this is We're just doing our best.
Unless this motherfucking implothes.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Can you imagine halfway through we're scratching each other's eyes out.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I think one of those dates is like right around
when we started. It's like our anniversar. That'd be very cool.
That'd be very cool.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
What if our anniversary shows in Indianapolis and we're just
like hands across America?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
I love you, we build a bridge of love. Again.
I apologize for saying I would never go there. It's
too late, because I'm going it's too late. Yeah, No,
we're we're going to show up there. What if?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
What if we're there when that there's like a true
crime convention that's there.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
I think you did it on purpose. No, I think
we sent him that, Like can we go to this?
Are you serious? Yes? There's a true come convention in
Indianapolis and our fucking amazing tour. Dude, like crying a
little bit right now? Why just I like? I like
it all so much. It's a lot, like it's so much,
it's really a lot. It's good time, like it's so much. Yeah,

(13:08):
it's really good. This is crazy. Now? Can I change
the topic really quick? I can tell you want to
and I'll let you. Thank you. I'm not comfortable. I'm
not comfortable in celebration or this is called this is
you get one free change the topic every episode.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
The yogurt shop murders were twenty five years ago, yesterday.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
I have the book right over there. Serious, Yeah, are
you reading the book about it?

Speaker 2 (13:33):
I haven't started because because of reasons, but because you can't.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Read, you don't know how to read. The book is
called was It's called Who Killed These Girls? By Beverly Lowry,
and I think it's new and it's funny because oh,
you know what was happening. I was going to do that,
and I have a draft of it. And as I
was writing the draft, Emily Gordon texts me and says,
have you read Who Killed These Girls? The fucking moment

(14:01):
I was typing this shit, that lost my mind. And
then I was like, well, I don't want to steal
the chick's slender, so I'm not gonna So I'm gonna
order it and read it first.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
When they I saw the picture on the Facebook page
this morning, and the picture of these girls from this time, niece,
it's it made me well up. It's just like it's
four girls who are just teenage girls and one was
a friend who just wanted to hang out. You know
when you go like you're closing, Well, I don't want
to be alone.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
I'm gonna go hang out with you, all you clothes
and all fucking fill napkin things or whatever. Yeah, and
then when one girl had to bring her little sister,
so her little sister was hanging out there. If you
guys don't know about the yogurt shot, mers, don't look
it up because I'm gonna cover it one day. But
it's it's fucking and it's heavy, and it's cold case.
It's unsolved. But then there's a lot of people. Someone
was in prison for it, arrested and jailed and confessed

(14:48):
to it.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
I won't say anymore, Okay, Yeah, I want to borrow
this when you're done.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I just I just wanted to kind of cite it
because it's such a long time and it's a cold case.
I mean, like, whoever went to jail for it is
not the person, and.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
And there's such that's just all of us. It's all
of us. The reason I haven't started reading it yet
is because I went to therapy the other day and
I was like, I'm extra to press lately, and she's like, well,
let's think about, like, what are some triggers in your
life like that you do. And I'm like, oh, you
mean constantly reading and thinking about murders and crimes and

(15:26):
looking at fucking crime scene photo. It's like, it's not
just for my job. Yeah, it suppresses me. So this
week I was going to do a survivor story just
to be like it's okay, but I couldn't find one.
Are you kidding me? I could have wind a good one.
I was just like, oh, well, that's not your jam.
It's not my jam. It's not what you hook into.
It doesn't interest you. I mean, you can never go

(15:47):
up from Mary Vince. What's her name, Oh, Mary Vince,
it is Mary Vincent. Yeah, I can't go up from
a fucking pregnant woman beating the shit out of a
woman trying to steal her baby, which you've done in
the past, and.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Whether that's Sarah Peters, You're so good at that remembering
things I didn't do.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Mary Vincente's now though, and Mary Vincent, who's just I mean,
so I'm not doing one of those Hi Hi doing
a murderer.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, that's what most people have tuned in for Also,
I just wanted to talk about the now I just
wrote down Peppini.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
But are you following that case? No? Oh, yes you
must be.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Which a woman who was kidnapped and she they found
her on Thanksgiving Day and it's up It took place
up in Reading, California, which is up north of Sacramentic.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
I don't I know, I've seen the name, but I
haven't read about it. And they just did a twenty
twenty on it.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Oh, there's a mega thread on the facebook page. It
is the craziest case. And the newest thing that I
just read this morning is so it's basically the woman disappears.
It's a classic thing of their big signs saying please
help us then.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
And that you have to read it. It's just like
because I actually found it. I saw it on I
saw like a oh, there's a thread on the Facebook
page like this must be a good episode. Yes, So
I found it and then I read and the thing
that in the in the conversation, I was like, why
are they who gives a shit? It's the same thing
that always happens, and what you know, these photos don't
make it like and I was like fuck this. Then
I Okay, her husband killed her. Everyone else that then,

(17:21):
but I didn't realize how recent it was and she
came back. They found her. Oh she they found her
on the side of the road, chained. Is this gone girl? Oh?
Hallie was telling me about this.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yes, it's the craziest thing. And there's all these additional
facts that keep unfolding that are so crazy where it's
what everyone was saying in the mega thread, but it's
so true. It's like we're just waiting to find out
what really happened. It's like we're days away from them
going they just found this clue and here's what's actually
going on.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Because no one wants to be too high heaven.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yes, and everybody's being very kind of aware of that,
like don't nobody wants to blame her fingers say you're funny, whatever.
But if you watch the twenty twenty that it doesn't
feel right and there is this do.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
They know it? Doesn't like, can you tell that they
know about it not feeling I didn't.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
I it's on my DVR, but I haven't watched it yet,
But there is My sister, of course, was tending me
word for word all about it. And then there is
a private detective who showed up and said he had
a donation from an anonymous donor to a reward that
he was going to offer from an anonymous donor, and
then he kind of started taking over, like get in

(18:30):
front of everybody, like, hey, here's how it's going to go,
and he spoke.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
It's it's the weirdest. It's just weird, weird, weird. Nothing
seems right. I want to say that I could be
totally wrong, but I don't buy it. And you know,
I saw a couple of minutes of like the husband
being interviewed. Yeah, and he doesn't seem right.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
It's going to be very interesting in like I think
it'll be like a month or less when something is
revealed and we're all just going to go holy shit,
because it doesn't It just doesn't add up. And there's
all these extra things that don't make sense. Sorry, this
was a dumb thing to bring up. I'm not being specific.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
No, it's good. People are into it.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I do.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Let's get Merich Corner out of the way. Okay, my
favorite Murder Shirts dot com And I know everyone was like,
why didn't you call it my favorite mercher And I'm like, because.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
You know what, everybody has great puns after the fact,
you know what.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I mean, you weren't there. You weren't there mentally, I
was not there.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
If you if you not, you personally am some them
Like everybody can think of a great idea when they
have seven weeks to think of.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
It, right. I also didn't think this would be a thing,
and so I didn't get fucking clever, and I was like,
it's not gonna be a thing, and people aren't gonna understand,
and they're not going to correctly put in good night.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
I seek no, no, stay awake because I feel like
I didn't think this was gonna be a thing. Is
the banner that's waving above this podcast.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I love when people.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Like tweet criticisms and I just want to write back,
are you fucking kidding me? Like you do understand? You
understand this. This is a conversation we're recording.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Do you know how hurt I would feel if they
tweeted that if we put, if we put, if we
tried very fucking hard, like I'd like, shit, we did
our fucking best. I stayed up for seven days research
and we like the state of the art fucking recording
studio but it's my apartment, and sometimes there's fires outside,

(20:22):
and sometimes my fucking neighbor downstairs is playing World Warcraft
very loudly. It's a fucking shit show. I mean, it
just comes back to go fuck yourself and the classic
Jimmy Pardo quote listen or don't. We can't.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
We can't, just can't, and we want to and we won't,
but we can't do we want to?

Speaker 1 (20:42):
I don't know do you want to? For some of
the people, maybe do, but do they even I don't.
I don't either, I don't either. Is it okay? It's okay?
All right? So that's merch corner?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (20:55):
I guess this has gone on so long? Uh?

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, I know that we were should we do this quickly?
And we're like, yeah, we're just gonna We're gonna do
this quickly. We're get it, get it done. George's got
a storytelling show. We're gonna zip zap stop talkers, no
bug way. Well, I just don't get to see you
that much.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's nice to.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Talk to you, miss miss you by Uh did you
you had a thing you wanted to tell me? I
started a new job, which I'm super excited about. And
it's going to be super fun. But I, like I
very cockily told George. I was like, no, this is

(21:30):
gonna be easy, and we're gonna be I'm gonna be
able to do even more stuff this time because blah
blah blah. Well of course it's we just non stop
ten am to Like tonight, I got out at you know, I'm.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Gonna be honest, Like my heart was a little broken
when you were like, I'm starting on Monday. Yeah, I'm like, oh, yeah,
I know. I had you for two weeks you did,
and now we're in the longest send some murder relationship again.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
We're back to dapping to write civil war letters to
each other, and we're like each.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Other's what's it called when you get cussed to have
a kid, but like we're together of it? Oh like
co parenting? No, we're uh when when you can see
a kid sometimes and it has to be supervisor appointed
corn appointed friends. So like we Stephen is our fucking
corner corner appointed fucking supervisor, and like you and I

(22:17):
get to be together once a.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Week, we have to make sure we don't abuse each
other to no drinking.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
No, well no that's true. Yeah, I think I can't
not work. I can't. I can't. You're working. This is
a job.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Now, I know, I know this is a job, but
I mean, if anything didn't feel like a job, I
would say, it's this.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Oh no, for sure? Oh fuck that. Yeah, No, this
is fucking This is so stupid, like the fact that
I'm like, I'm depressed. What am I I'm not doing anything?
Oh my god, I have a fucking career called my
favorite murder. Now it's the best. This is hilarious. It's
like the fucking Peppini case. I can't wait to see unfolds.
It's gonna be either tragic and we were wrong.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yes, or every one's gonna owe everybody in apology or
fucked up and hilarious. Right and we were right. Yes,
that sounds fun. I mean that's kind of always the
option too. Anyway, So.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
And we're back. I'm sorry, I enjoy our banter.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I'm sorry that these episodes make me love our podcast.
I think it's just really fun to revisit these conversations.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, and I think people like that about it. Like
there's people who don't listen because of the intro. I
totally understand that, but the people who do listen specifically
do it. I think for the intro yes in addition
to the rest of it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
I feel like we're a niche area of true crime
where most true crime people want it a certain way,
and we're like, we're gonna give it to you with
a different sauce. And then there's people who are like,
I'd never have that sauce, and how dare you give
me that sauce, And it's.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Like, oh, absolutely, God bless you.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
And then there's the people that are like, this is
the sauce I've been waiting for my whole.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Life, right, and the people are like, I like the
thing that kind of get the sauce on the side,
and then they don't, you know, and like we totally
understand that because they still want the thing, and those
are the skippers. There's sauce on the side people, they're
still there.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
And also they're kind of visionaries because how many things
do you skip now, Like how much time do you
spend with your finger on the fast forward thing of
almost everything where it's.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Like plus thirty plus thirty plus thirty.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
We don't have time for other people's bullshit.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Also, with the sauce analogy, I really love it because
it is like I want the sauce, but I don't
want as much as you fucking put on it. I'm
just talking about food now, because when I get ex Benedict,
I'm like, couldn't you put the holiday on the side
place because it's drowning? Why is that the norm? Now? Yes?

Speaker 2 (24:47):
And also you don't need parsley on top of everything.
It's just a weird color that you're doing to be
like colorful. But I don't want to eat a bunch
of fucking chopped up parsley.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Right, So maybe those are like the semi skippers who
like just are fast forwarding through literally what I'm saying
right now. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I like the I bet it's a lot of younger
people who are like, we already know what you're gonna say,
just it's enough of this shit already, which I'm like, hey,
guess what, fully support.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
You no mind saying you fucking never know what we're
gonna say. Do you really think you were gonna hear
about fucking holiday sauce on a fucking true crime podcast?
I bet you fucking didn't know that. You didn't know
I was going to cry about Parsley, you didn't know
he had an idea.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Also, I just do want to say, and I'm sorry
to be this way, but I saw the joke that
I said, which is everybody has great puns after the fact.
I really want to make that a bumper sticker, only
because people always love to be on social media being like,
why didn't you say.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
You know what you should have called it? You know
what you should have said?

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah, easy to do after the fact, hard to do
in the moment.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Puns are twenty twenty ow my therapist saying that maybe
listening and reading true crime constantly isn't great for my
mental health. Not always great.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, and a good thing to bring up and tell
people where it's like no one is saying this is
always the answer in like for everybody.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Because we run into a lot of people who are
like I had just I loved your podcast. I had
to stop listening for a while. But and that's like,
uh huh, yeah, totally understood.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
We kind of left our bodies on this podcast as well.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
For a while. It was I believe it was called Quarantine,
and it was already five through nine around oh and
then you're oh my god, you're talking about the Sherry
Puppini story and like just came out. I thought, the
husband did it.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
What a moment, like those things, and it was almost
like the death knell for those people magazine white Lady drama.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Whatever that's called thing, and yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
The white woman's syndrome of the media. And this was
really one of the last big ones. And it was
so nonsensical from the beginning, and she was so racist
from the beginning of like two Latina women, one short,
one tall, one with dark.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Characters would understand what they were saying. Such bullshit. There
is also there's a Hulu Docusentaries called Perfect Wife The
Mysterious Disappearance of sherrif Opinia. That's really really good and
so good that I never have to hear about it again,
you know what I mean? Yep, Or it's like that's
not a story anymore.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Put it to bed. Put it they just put it
to bed. Yeah, but I'm not that's not my story.
That's just me taking up more time. At the top
of the show, like Skippers Unite is truly like we're
almost doing an argument for Skippers in this show.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
We really are, Okay, this has all been skip material
and now let's start.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Now, let's get into the part where the skippers would
join us. Right, right, it's Georgia's story about Leslie Allen Williams.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Are you first on my horse? Sorry? Are you first?
Or on my first? Oh? I thought you said something
about a horse. I swear to God? Are you a horse? Mind?
Am I a horse? This week?

Speaker 2 (27:54):
I don't remember. I don't remember last week at all. Stephen,
we're gonna need you to take it. Oh, last week
was that one of yours that I keep thinking about
of the babysitter and the children?

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Oh? Fuck, that was a rough one. That was first
last week? Right? What was yours? No idea? What the
fuck is wrong with us?

Speaker 2 (28:17):
No?

Speaker 1 (28:17):
I mean, I'm like, I'm about to be put into
a home. What is wrong? I was last week?

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Luca, fucking guy?

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Did you see the people that sent the picture where
Lord Lucan and Brad Pitt? No?

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Oh, yes, I saw that one, and I saw someone
went and took a photo of the fucking plumber's arms.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yes, that was the best. We got two pictures of
the plumber's arms. Which was the bar that Lord Lucan
I don't know somebody went to. But then brad Pitt
looks so much like Lord Lucan when he has his
inglorious bastard's mustache.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Calling it here first, this is going to become a movie.
Brad Pitt's going to play someone. We deserve royalties, Yeah,
we definitely deserve it. We had our hand in this
pie bit gross Phil grows, but we still want money. Well,
we left our hand in there. So then it's that
means it's you. Yeah, okay, and mine's not super long,
but it sucks. Okay, all right, Karen. Yes. So. In

(29:18):
May of nineteen ninety two, thirty nine year old Leslie
Allen Leslie Allan Williams to Dude of Detroit is arrested
when the police find a woman in the trunk of
his car. All Right, so that's where we're starting. A
woman's body.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Woman, Yes, he ceased? Yes, okay, so no, no, I'm sorry, okay, sorry,
she's alive. I'm sorry I immediately started question.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
No, you're right to question because I clearly don't know.
Let me start over, okay. In May of fifteen eighty two,
thirty nine year old Leslie Allan Williams of Detroit is
arrested when the police found a woman in the trunk
of his car, a live woman. Uh huh. He's charged
with attempted murder, attempted rape, and kidnapping. She had just

(30:05):
been abducted from a cemetery that was close by. She
was visiting her mom's grave. What like, can you pick
a fucking better time, dude, Like, I don't want a
good time to get kidnapp is, but it's not then well,
I mean, if you're evil, that's the best time. Yeah.
Oh man, oh wait till you're at your statust. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Uh, it's either that or when you're watching ordinary people,
they're a couple times I'm gonna grab you.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
That is the saddest movie. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Or maybe if you're at the pound. Yeah, and then
you just walked out of the pound.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Post pound kidnappings, that's going to become the new fucking
so sad. Oh that's the new thing. Or like you're
in a dressing room trying to pull on pants. This
is why I don't go in dressing rooms. That's not why.
But also I don't go on dressing rooms. Fuck that. Okay,
I'm just gonna keep thinking. So you got sorry, I
love it. I know we're missing some good ones. So

(30:57):
Leslie Alan Williams. He's a dude. The first time he
was arrested was when he was a teenager, and he
was convicted of attempted breaking and entering, larceny from an auto,
breaking and entering, assault with intent to commit murder, assault,
and first degree criminal sexual conduct when he's a fucking

(31:18):
a teenager. So that was a ton of things. Yeah,
do you think he's going to straighten his life out? Yes, Nope,
it turns out nope. So in nineteen eighty three, he
pleads guilty to sexual assault with intent to commit kidnapping
and assault with intent to sexually penetrate for a kidnapping
committed was committed less than two weeks after he's paroled

(31:39):
from prison. So the original time he gets prison when
he was a teenager, two weeks later he fucking does
all this crazy shit because he's like, I can't control myself. Yeah,
he's got out and he's like, what should I do? Pinball? Yeah,
he's like, creating rehabilitation works. No, it doesn't, It really doesn't.
So at that time in eighty three, he gets a

(32:00):
sentence of seven to thirty years. In nineteen ninety, after
serving seven years, he's paroled just the fucking bare minimum.
I mean by even though I like it took two
weeks for him to commit, I mean something that you
and I are going to commit in our lifetimes, probably,
but not in two weeks. Right, you already have a
couple of those I don't want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
It's not about what I it's not what I'm guilty of,
Like we're here to point the finger.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
You're so modest, like you don't even want to make
this about you, like just so you don't want to
be more badass than Leslie Allen Williams my super long
rap sheet. Okay, paroled after seven years. And then so
when he gets caught with this woman in his trunks
who's still alive, that's two years after he's paroled. So, like,

(32:50):
what was he up to those past two years? Karen?

Speaker 2 (32:54):
He probably had like a bit a bunch of pictures
on his wall and he was connecting pictures with red string.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Mm hm oh they do that in every fucking dead
active movie, right, yeah, but not high Detective.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
He's like the criminal that's really planning stuff out, Tuck.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
I mean, right, you wanted a suggestion, didn't you? I did?
Thank you? Okay, no, I did. So while he's in prison,
he tells reporters that he should be quote locked up,
and that leads authorities to think that he might be
fucking had done some other crimes. Then his girlfriend, always
the fucking girlfriend, was like, you know what, he liked
to visit this one rural field near town that maybe

(33:33):
you should check that out. Who visits fields? Fucking serial
killers here bury bodies right in those fields.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Other than that, it's like, what do you Why do
you need to go to a field. You're fine without
going to that field unless you're a ghost baseball player.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
You don't need to be in that field. Oh but
that was good though, I really liked that. That was
like quick. So so his girlfriend said, they go to
this place and they find the body of eighteen year
old Cammi Marie Villanova Villa Niova. So it's in a

(34:11):
field near town, thirty five miles northwest of Detroit. They're like, hey, dude,
we found this body in this place he liked to
hang out. And he was like, well, shit, I did it.
So he confesses and then he leads investigators to the
bodies of Michelle Urban, who was sixteen, and her fourteen
year old sister Melissa. They were originally thought to be runaways,

(34:37):
because that's what fourteen year olds do. He tells them
that he had stocked the sisters in their town of Heartland,
it's another suburb of Detroit. He used to break into
homes there, and he used to break into homes of
women he met in his therapist's office. He went to therapy. Yeah,

(35:00):
he went to therapy. This is why I never talked
to anyone in the waiting rooms of therapy. O. And
because I hate everyone. And also, what do you talk about?
I mean, how's it going. Have you been crying? I've
been crying.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Also, it just makes me mad when you when we
tell these stories to each other, and it's like you
list off all these shitty things someone's done. It's like
and his girlfriend, We're like, yeah, so you can just
date really easily. Not even his ex girlfriend, like his
current relationship he's having with another adult, probably lives together.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
She probably like kicks him down for a fucking diet coax.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, right in the at the least, at the very least,
at the very least, making that son of a bitch
cast roles.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Honey, I hope you're happy now. I don't mean that,
I hope you're fucking I mean, like, I hope you're happy.
I truly hope she's happy. Better things have happened, Yes,
wishing her well? What is it that the South people
say where they say le's her heart, that's her I
always say wishing her well? Okay. He stalks them at

(36:00):
he had broken into homes of women he had met
his therapist's office. Fucking awesome. That makes me feel really
great and safe. And he started stalking these girls and
he had been peeping at them. He saw them eight
times over several days while casing houses to rob fuck.
He said he was sexually attracted to the way Melissa,

(36:21):
the younger sister walked. No, that's not yours cit sexually.
I mean, it's you have a problem. It's not the
way she walks. It's not You're not allowed to be
sexually attracted to something that someone doesn't want you to be.
You know what I mean doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's it's a nice concept. Yeah, it doesn't want know
that way.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Okay. So, armed with a three inch pocket knife, he
confronts the girls by jumping from some bushes and he
puts them in the trunk of his car, rapes them,
suffocates them. Within an hour of kidnapping them. Oh god,
they're dead.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
This guy's just on a fucking Leasley's a berserker. He's
just like only wants to do bad things all the time.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Well, he's like, I had two weeks before, who knows
how long I'm gonna have before. But it's like, well,
don't do it, then, don't do it like you got me.
He can't.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
He clearly, clearly, clearly can this is what he wants
to do. Then let's go to therapy and have a relationship.
Fucking an asshole.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
He drives to the Oakland Cemetery, Oakwood Cemetery and Fenton
and dumps the girls in a shallow grave that he
had fucking pre made before. Yeah, okay, then, so the
next victim is Cynthia Jones. She's sixteen. She's found near Milford,
which you'll never remember this, but my husband, Vince abral

(37:44):
is from Milford. Oh. With that terrible story of those
two girls, I'm equally awful story of a fucking two
sweet girls getting murdered in a park in Milford. Well,
it just so happens there's another girl from Milford So
in January, she and her boy friend Luke were confronted
inside Luke's park car in Milford, which is Michigan Central Park.

(38:07):
So they're fucking parked making out and You're like, I'm safe.
I'm with a guy. Everything's fine. It's like there's two
of us, like, buddy up. Nope. He They were told
he needed their car because he had just robbed a store,
so he was like trying to get their car. He
escorts them both at knife point into the woods, ties
Luke to a tree, and takes off with Cindy. He
drives an hour to his apartment and he rapes and

(38:29):
tortues her for a few hours, then took her to
Buno Road in Milford. We had a pre dug actually
I'm sorry that was a pre dug grave, four foot grave.
Stabs her, rapes her, puts her unclothed body inside the grave.
Did I ask Vince about this? Yes? I did. And
what he remembers? Did he know? Yeah, here's what he said. Well,

(38:53):
to be fair, he's the one who told me to
do this story. So I said, what do you remember
about this? This is crazy, just that her boyfriend got because
he came up on them in the park and tied
him up and took her. People wanted to know why
he didn't do anything. We were in eleventh grade. That's
so awesome. He was in class with her, hit school
with her and the boyfriend. People were saying to the boyfriend, Yeah,

(39:16):
that's fucking He just that's what he remembers. And then
he asked his friend Dan about it, and he said
he doesn't know if it came from court or he
just remembered this. That the guy had had Cynthia for
a while before he killed and raped her repeatedly and
would tell her he'd let her go if she if
she just let him each time. Oh man, So that's

(39:38):
what he remember was probably from the trial. Milford fuck
and it's like I've been there. It's like a charming
little suburb suburb. So all three of the girls as
well as as well as the written original on Miss Villanoiva.
They disappeared on weekends between September fourteenth and January twod

(39:59):
that's for fucking women. Then and then he said to
state police detectives, I don't want to cause any trouble.
I don't want to cause taxpayers any grief. I want
to be locked up, Lock me up, so I don't
do it again. I have no control over my life.
Holy shit, I know. So his last sentencing had been
in nineteen eighty three when he threatened to abduct a

(40:21):
woman and he released her unharmed. So he got a
shit ton of breaks from the justice system, getting light sentences,
early pearls after guilty please on a bunch of charges
of breaking and entering, rape and assault since nineteen seventy one.
So multiple fucking breaks for rape, Like you're like, okay,
breaking and entering fucking like that just shows you how

(40:43):
much fucking women's bodies meant back then, rape and fucking assault.
So he gets sentenced everything, and fucking Detroit goes crazy
because they're like, how the fuck did this happen? And
they want to hold all the of parole board members accountable.

(41:03):
Whoa yeah, So they draft a legislation and make the
the panel more accountable. They would get they got expanded,
they could only serve three year terms appointed by the
Corrections Director, and they could have them removed from the
parole board. And it went crazy. And this is kind
of why the Detroit or Michigan prison system is so full.

(41:30):
It is because you can't parole people anymore. Wow, so easily.
It is really hard to get ever again. Wow. Yeah,
so it's hard to get paroled. So they're fucking crowded
to shit. Okay. Also there's a war on drugs in it.
There shouldn't be okay. And then m then so he's
start he's sixty two years old. Now he's serving multiple

(41:51):
life sentences in the Carson City Correctional Facility in Michigan.
I hope you don't live there, everyone, We're not doing
a show there, please.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
So.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
Then in July two thousand, a local woman shares this
memory she had from nineteen seventy six. She says she's
the one that got away and hoped her story would
enlighten everyone to trust their instincts. She said she was
followed by a man stalked before stalking laws were in place,
which everyone thinks back that there was not stocking laws

(42:21):
in place for so long, for so long, even now
they're light in a lot of places, right, And he
captures her manages to get away with her mom, and
they report the police. There was nothing they could do
because he hadn't committed a crime. Oh, so he was
aggressively stalking her, he kidnaps her, but I don't know

(42:42):
if he kidnapped her. Oh sorry, he didn't get up.
Oh oh sorry, No I'm sorry. No, I'm the one.
No I am. In the end, she wrote, it's human
nature to assume that things like this happen to someone
else somewhere else. I'm here to say that it can
happen to you, and it can happen here. I grew
up in a small town called Fenton, Michigan, and the

(43:03):
man that chased me was Leslie Allan, Allan Williams. Are
you willing to go on assuming that this can't happen
to you? Wow? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Oh so so he chased her and then her mom
showed up and she got away.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, in chased, but he had been aggressively stalking her
before that, and the cops were like, well, he didn't
commit a crime. He didn't. Once he stabs you, let
us know and then we'll give him two years in prison.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Well that and yeah, that's why those the people that
got those stocking laws. I mean, there's like TV movies
about it where it's just like it's gone on for
so long and it's basically like, well, we can't do anything.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
I'm terrified of. Have you ever been stocked?

Speaker 2 (43:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (43:43):
I had to creep creep once, but it wasn't like
aggressive stocking. It's just like a place I worked at
that this person would like show up a lot. This
is why again, Like, why isn't attempted murder tried more harshly?
They attempted to murder someone, they didn't do it, So
you're only going to give them a quarter of the
time they would have gotten. We can't keep talking about this.

(44:05):
Yes we can, and we can change things. Then we
will change the law.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
But you but the law you want to change is
you want attempted murder be changed into murder.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
No, I want it to be fucking I want it
to be harsher sentences.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yes, well, but all around. I mean I agree with
you in that way. And we are reading stories from
sometimes that are from like twenty thirty years ago, where it.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Almost just is a culture.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
It's a cultural attitude where it's like that's fine, or
they'll go to jail. It'll change, And there is that
thing of like, yes, rape is a you know, there
was a there was a man who I think that
this was a story that was tweeted. He it was
a pedophile. He was arrested and given five hundred and
twenty two years in jail. So it's like, I think

(44:49):
we are catching up to this idea that we want
to ensure that these people don't hurt people anymore. But
the idea that it was set up so that this
man was harsh sure on himself than the parole. He
was saying, please lock me up, Please take this seriously.
I mean that's crazy, yeah, fucked up, and that Vince

(45:12):
knew one of the fucking oh the idea that that
guy got shited for basically being a victim.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
It wasn't even like people suspected him, you know what
I mean, like you know how that happens, Like oh,
we think it was the boyfriend. It wasn't even like
it was worse than that because you could never be
proven otherwise, Like it's not like they caught the killer.
It wasn't me, And everyone is like sorry, it's like no,
you fucking suck because you didn't do anything. You didn't
do anything, and it's like you don't know what the
situation is like well, and also if your life is

(45:41):
being threatened, like it's you can't do anything, that's just
people really mismanaging their own anxiety and being like, I'll
blame you. This is the easiest thing to do, Like
this wouldn't have happened to me because of this other thing.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Right, which is exactly it's like, yeah, you're trying to
make yourself feel better by going. If I was in
that situation, I would have been able to take care
of it. Therefore, you are at fault when it's like
I don't think so. Nah, that's and what an awful
thing to do to another person.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, not it. Nah? Hey did you get your haircut?
I cut my hair over my sink tonight. I'm really cute,
does it? Yeah? I'm sorry because I was thinking about
that part of the time. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
But it's a really good shape. It's not like a
mom bob though, is it not? At the least, it's
actually super twenties. That's why I was very.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Distracted, but because I keep thinking I look like I
would like be a mom and a Miniman commercial, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
No, it has really good angles. Okay, thank you. I
cut it myself. I went to three months of beauty school.
This is the way that we I offset my anxiety
about hearing about terrible things.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I want everyone to know that, Like, we are
not terrible. People were just this is like us lightning
a load of fucking pressing anxiety. If you think we're
terrible because we talk about hair, f f it stuff,
then you can listen or you can't. What was it? Listener?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Don't right?

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Okay, we're back. Any updates for this story, Georgia, Well,
I mean one personal update. I was sitting next to
Vince while I was studying this rewind episode, and I
was like, I had completely forgotten that he knew the victim,
Cynthia Jones, sixteen year old Cynthia Jones and her boyfriend Luke,
who had been confronted with Cynthia. He knew them, knew them,

(47:28):
like went to school with them throughout and said he
was a really nice guy. And then also I was like,
did people say shit to him about it? He's like,
all I remember is that our coach, because he's like
on a team with him. Coach came into the locker
room at one point when he wasn't there and said,
nobody better say shit to him about not having you know,
done something to defend her, because it's just as impossible

(47:50):
and Thank God that coach said that back then and
knew Jesus for real.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
That's like such an incredible empathetic awareness. I wonder if
he came up with that on his own as a
coach in just like being a good person, or some
crisis counselor was like, here's what you need to say.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah, yeah, I've been said. Some fucked up shit happened
in this like sweet little town. It's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
And as for the story, we talked about how Leslie
Allen Williams kept getting early release and parole before he
was caught for these murders, and I said how it
eventually led to legislation changes and is now part of
the reason why the Michigan prison system is so full. Well.
According to the Council on Criminal Justice, Michigan's average prison
sentence length is roughly three times the national average. Whoa

(48:34):
I know in the state leads in the proportion of
its prison population serving sentences longer than ten years. Wow.
The Second Look Sentencing Act is a proposed legislation that
would allow those who have served at least twenty years
to petition their original court for a sentence reduction, and
anyone approved would still serve the remainder of their reduced
sentence and be subject to parole review before release, and

(48:57):
that would hopefully combat the outdated and rigid sentencing system
and recognize that excessively long sentences often outlive their purpose
and fail to reflect personal transformation. But those convicted of
criminal sexual conduct, terrorism, mass shootings, and certain domestic violence
cases would be ineligible. And then finally, Leslie Allen Williams
remains in prison to this day. Yeah, should we get

(49:21):
to your story? That should be three episodes, but we
didn't really know a lot about it. I gotta say this.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
I was like, oh shit, this is this episode where
I so clearly am Like it's like getting called in
front of the class and being like, Karen, would you
like to give your oral report on the book you.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Were supposed to read? And it's like.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
What crackerr crack my knuckles and just being like I
was gonna do this and then I did this. But
it's a very upsetting to me. Like, here's the thing.
If you're going to start a podcast, just quick reminder,
it's forever. So what you were recording is forever. You're
you will be held to a count. If people pay
enough attention, and this was a real me having maybe

(50:05):
two jobs at that time and trying to get my
homework done and just not getting it done. So thinking
I could be conversational about these cases. I knew facts
about the letterman's stocker.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
To kind of hold that up.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
But the idea that I was going to try to
improvise through talking about Israel Keys, who was one of
the most prolific serial killers in America, is such a
green ridiculous thing.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
So but we know that now, we didn't really not
at the time, and yeah, this is like just shows
how far we've come. Now this is twenty sixteen, still
when we're fucking brand new babies at this and making
it up as we go along.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
As Bradford likes to say, but Bradford Burleski, who works
in our legal department, you were building the plane as
you were flying it. And that is absolutely as scary
and as accurate.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Right Molla tracks were being literally placed in front of
our big mouth train.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
And I was literally like coming to a point in
my writing career that I had been working toward for
literally ten years, and then it was like you got
to quit that, And it's like, how am I going
to do this. This is it was wild, but I
so anyway, not to make excuses whatever. Listen with a
grain of salt and with this, you know, with my
full apologies of the casualness.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Of the Israel keyst part.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
It's truly like saying, let me just synopsize for you
in five minutes. What's in the New York City library
where it just like, good luck, dummy, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Why would you do this? Because we're us, Let's do it.
Let's get into Karen.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Story now that it's my time, okay to shine.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
This is not gonna be good. I love it. I
made this mistake. Here's I'll walk you through my mistake. Please.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I started going into very deeply researching a woman named
Mary Margaret Ray and she was David letterman stalker for
years in the eighties. And it is a story that
has fascinated me forever because she she.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Was obsessed with David Letterman.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
She would break into his house, she would steal his car,
she would get pulled over speeding in his car and
tell the cops that she was missus David Letterman and
let they would let her go.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
How did she get in their house?

Speaker 2 (52:33):
This was back when they were again, this is the
time where like he, I'm sure he locked the front
door or whatever, and then she would be like, I
need to get into that house and make it happen.
She would leave presents for him inside the house. One
time he was in bed with his girlfriend watching TV
and they looked up and she was standing in the hallway.

(52:53):
My god, yes, and but here's the mistake that they made.
Because nobody knew anything about stalking and all this pychology
of it.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
He would talk about it on the TV show, so
she got all this attention and she was like positive reinforcement.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Well, and the thing that she had, she had a schizophrenia.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
And it's a very sad story.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Of course, once I started looking at it, it's an
incredibly sad story because she had it and so did
two of her brothers and so did her father.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
So it's just no chance. I mean, that's it's so rough.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
And it's the classic thing of she would start taking
her medication get better and think she didn't need medication.
That's everyone, yeah, even that's who everybody does that.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Even if she wasn't schizophrenic, she still was fucked, you
know by that many I mean not that everyone is,
but like you're gonna have some fucking issues.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Well because schizophrenia they believe is very genetic, right, and
so yeah, it's it's it's very difficult. And in that family,
it's like that, I mean, that's just such a sad story.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
I mean, I oh honey, but like what you know, Yeah,
it's just an interesting thing that you have to look
at everyone's life like everyone's kind of a victim and
a fucking yes.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Well, and like it's easy for we. It's the thing
I love the most about this podcast. We just get
to say our opinion. We're not obviously not experts. Obviously,
Oh but you're not an expert. Well, I mean I do.
I do know how to cut and paste from Wikipedia,
So yes, I am an expert in that way. But yes,
everybody has. There's backstory and context to everything, you know.

(54:29):
But anyway, the thing was he would talk about it
like there was a bit he would call his house
and then go oh good, no one's home and hang
it like it was like he would do things like
that on the show. But she not only had schizophrenia,
but she had a thing called uh erotomania, which is
a delusional disorder where you believe that another person is

(54:53):
in love with you, and usually it's applied to someone
with higher status or it's someone famous.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Oh I have that with Vince. Yeah, no, I got it,
that guy, Elvin. They totally love you so much. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
So. But the problem is that in the delusion, they
think that, uh, the secret admirer is declaring their affection
through special glances, signals, help telepathy, or messages through the.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Media like on your fucking talk show. So then he's
actually doing it. Didn't anyone tell him?

Speaker 2 (55:29):
They No one knew. They didn't know how to like that,
how to handle this situation.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
That's the man thing to do, in my mind.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
But it's also just an uneducated like at the time,
people were like, peeping toms are funny, you know, it
really likes you. Yes, stalkers are like you so nice?
You don't friend zone him?

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Did you? What did you do to make him stalk you?
Kinda thing?

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Exactly why you're wearing short skirts if you don't want
a stalker? Uh. And the thing that when I found
out this part, because I was insanely obsessed with Letterman
when I was growing up. I used to go to
bed and this when I was like twelve and thirteen,
and I would get back up at twelve thirty and
go pull the chair really close to the TV and

(56:13):
watch Letterman from twelve thirty to one thirty every night.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
So you were kind of the stalker too.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
I also want to but I just what was happening
on that TV was like, there's this other world out
there that I can't believe exists that I want to
be a part of so bad where it's like Chris
Elliot popping up as the man underneath the stairs type
of stuff where you're like, none of this entertainment is
on my normal daytime TV.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I love it. So it was very exciting.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
So I kind of like was like, yeah, I get
why she's she wants to go to his house and
drive his car, and so she's married to him.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
He's the only that's the only talk show I could
ever fucking stand.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Yeah, because he wasn't doing normal talk show things totally,
and he was so insanely rude.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
So it devolved.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
She actually eventually kind of went off him and started
stalking an X astronaut. But it was just all step down, Yes, exactly.
I bet David Lettermon was like, what yeah, he's like bitch.
Eventually though, and this is the worst part, because she
knew her life was that it was she was just

(57:18):
out of control. She killed herself by kneeling in front
of a train.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
No.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
And when I heard that the first time, I was
just like, it's so awful. It's so like, it's so
insanely sacrificial. It's so symbolic or something. And she wrote
her mother a letter saying she was going to do
it and saying I want to die in the valley
that I love. And she did it some I can't

(57:45):
remember it somewhere and like in somewhere in Montana, I
think her. So it's just such a dramatic story. Anyway,
I did all this work and research and then by
the end realized, well, that's non a murderer. That's a
very sad story of extreme illness and suicide. And then
I was like, oh, so then I had to start over.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Oh wait, so you're starting now, So now I'm starting,
But this will be fast. You're like, I, so now
you're starting. Oh so you're gonna do too, murder. This
is the thing.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
And I just I guess I wanted to say all
that because that's what I'm interested in, and that was
a fascination that I had. A person that is a
female stalker is a fascinating concept. Okay, that almost never happened.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I like that we can do this because sometimes they'll
find these crazy stories and be like, but there's no murder,
but like, fuck, it's fucked.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Up, right, I think we should talk about those. We
should change the fucking title.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Of the book. Yeah, let's change this whole concept. We
really painted ourselves into a corner.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Let's Stephen erase what we've done so far, race the
past forty five episodes. So this is what I did,
and this will just be the FASTI because this is
actually super fast, so it's equally fascinating.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
But it's almost like it reverted. It's a shorting, okay, And.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
It's the story of the insane serial killer Israel Keys.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
He's the guy he's did you ever see.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
That that movie The Minus Man starring uh what his name?
Owen Wilson, And it's basically a guy that just kind
of goes around, really nice chill guy traveling from town
to town, killing people randomly and leaving this that's basically

(59:31):
so Israel Keys. They don't know that much about him
and he killed people from u two thousand and one
to twenty twelve.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
What the fuck? And he.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Went literally he worked as a contractor in Alaska and
he would take that money and then he also would
rob banks and he would take all that money and
he would buy play tickets so that he could go
and to random cities, rent cars and go murder somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
They wouldn't be connected.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Nothing would be connected, and then they would just go
to a different city. Fuck. It's so fucking crazy. And
so it's almost like it doesn't even scare me because
it's beyond, Like it's just beyond. It's almost like he
was He has a look like you can see his
mugshot online and he looks like a dude that would

(01:00:31):
be in like a north Face catalog. Like he's he's
young and kind of cute, and he looks very like sporty, like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
A little weather worn, but like in a hot, fucky,
rugged way. Yes, Like he looks like a guy that
would be on a hiking trail like one of the
ages of the Sexiest Man Alive in the do Seki's commercials.
He's like thirty something, Am I getting this right? Yes? Okay?
So the sexiest man alive is into camping. This is
this guy. Oh also and murder.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
So so he and he would do that. He would
go to remote places, so he would go to hiking trails.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
He would go to like national parks and it's the
national park. This is the national park guy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
So he would go into these places and then just
like just steal one person easy, yes, easy, and take
them torture, rate, murder whatever, bury their bodies somewhere and
then just move on. And he would pre planet so
he had okay, so I'll just read you what I

(01:01:37):
have so uh and I got a lot of this
from this awesome it's just an FBI press release where
they just said.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Here's everything we know. If you know anything, please call us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
So they're so like because when they finally arrested him, Oh,
he got arrested. They arrested him, they got him to
talk a little bit, and then he commit suicide dick,
so they knew. They know for a fact that he
killed eleven people for sure, they can like patch it
all back.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
It's never that it's so many more.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Because, uh, the amount of planning that went into these
things is super crazy. Because he would bury caches all
around the country. So they were basically like kill kids
with money in them what so, So he could go
there and be like, here's my kill kid, yep, but
he wouldn't be traveling with it. So if the cop

(01:02:31):
pulled him over and he had a rental car and
he was in Arizona, the cop would be like, Oh,
it's a dude in a rental car. You're speeding, knock
it off. At no time was there like what's that
duffel bag?

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Or I mean, if you're gonna be that fucking like
what's the word organized and dedicated? Medicated, like just be
a fucking coder or something like get a job. I
know why you why do you have to dedicate that?
Don't be a dick.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Yeah, he's gotta be bad, this guy said apparently when
he got out of the army, so he was like
he got kicked out of the house when he was
seventeen and his parents, who used to be Amish and
then joined some weird they One of the articles said
it was like a Cultish church in Wells.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Texas, like the Amish, like similar to the Amish.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Co Yeah, but they like build nice things and they like,
you know, they have that have you ever seen that
areas that space heater that they make, It's really nice.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Come on.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Well, anyway, he got kicked out of the house and
his parents told his siblings you're not allowed to talk
to him anymore, which I want to know what the
hell happened?

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
But they last said everyone like everyone, and he was
just like super rude a Thanksgiving one of the two.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
But so he told the FBI that he had buried
some of those cases. So sorry, I was gonna say.
He went into the army for a while. He got, uh,
dismember from the army, dishonorated charge discharged us right and no,

(01:04:14):
he just regularly discharged. But he told people that he
was in the army with I can't wait to get
out of the army so I can kill a bunch
of people. Cool, super chill, super like, oh do you
want to go get a beer later?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Okay, now that's cool because you want to go kill people.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
So oh that Israel always joking around, you know that
guy Israel? So he uh so, apparently he has these
cashes buried in uh.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
The the FBI actually.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Went and found there was one in Eagle River, Alaska,
and there was one near Blake Falls Reservoir in New York.
And and then they also, oh, he admitted to bearing
them in Green River, Wyoming. And this is why I
have a metal detector, right and Port Angela's Washington, Okay,

(01:05:04):
And he's doing tours there almost find a cash that'd
actually be like a new geocaching, but you're actually trying
to find Israel keys caches with zo cashing. Yeah, he
didn't know any of his victims prior to their abductions.
He described several remote locations that he frequented to look

(01:05:25):
for them, parks, campgrounds, trail heads, cemeteries, boating areas, and
he frequented prostitutes during his travels sex workers, sorry, sex workers.
And it is unknown at this time if he met
any of his victims in this manner of course, because
they don't really know who the victims are. Jesus, and

(01:05:45):
he indicated to the FBI that his victims are male
and female.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
And rage from teens too. Elderly see that when they're
when they get that fucking non specific, they're fucking out
of there, like that's crazier. He wants to kill everybody.
He just wants to kill people. He just wants to
kill everybody. Okay, so his murders occurred in less than
ten states, but he didn't tell them all the locations.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
So basically the he just was doing. He was kidnapping
people in one state and taking them across state lines
intentionally to kill them in a different state.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Because then they wouldn't be missing people. They wouldn't be
connected to the missing that's right. People.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
So they find a body in Kansas and they don't
know anything because the person is missing from whatever state
is next to Kansas.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
How would I know? I only have like a seventh
grade education. We are the best second podcasters that I've
ever podcasted for real.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Oh. Also, it says here he would kidnap them in
one state, murder them in a second state, dispose of
their body in a thought state. Why that middleman because
he just wants to keep it clean, because he wants
to be able to keep doing it no matter what,
which he did four years.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
And how oh no, keep going sorry, so not trying
to lead you alone.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Uh. He also burglarized twenty to thirty homes and he
committed arson to cover up the homicides.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
So it's just everything, he's just throwing it all.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
It's a, it's a it's a castle, roll of bad things.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Okay. He starts in nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
His first victim was a girl who was inner tubing
down the Dishoots River in Oregon, and uh, Stevens.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Stevens Stephen knows where that is, lives in Bend right now.
Oh so that's on? Is that on?

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
Because yeah, it's a girl between fourteen and eighteen years
old who is tubing. He takes her off of her
inner tube, pulls her into the woods, sexually assault her,
puts her back on the inner tube, puts her on,
and she never reported it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
So the only reason they even know this happened is
because he told them it happen.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
You think, you know what, you know, one of the
safest places I would think are on the an inner
tube in the middle of a fucking lake with your friends,
with your friends and he oh.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
My, oh god, oh, there's the word discharged. In two
thousand and one, he was discharged from the US Army.
Then from two thousand and one July to October he
resided in Nia Bay, Washington, and there he committed his
first homicide. But they don't know who or where he killed.
He just said that's where he did it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
From two thousand and one to two thousand and five,
he murdered. This is all him telling the FBI he
murdered an unidentified couple in Washington. He refused to tell
them if the couple was married, what their relationship to
one another was. So it's actually not a couple, it's
just two people. He's so sam and they don't know
if they were residents of Washington's tourists or residents he abducted.

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
From another state and brought over. I don't know why
it's like worse from when they're unidentified, because it's just
like you just know that there are so many people suffering,
suffering and wondering and waiting and that don't have answers. Yeah,
I mean, it's devastating when you do, but at least
you're able to at least you know it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Like it's you're dealing with facts and instead of any
possible thing. So it's like he really did want as
many people.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
To suffer as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Awful two thousand and five to two thousand and six,
in the summer to fall months, he admitted he committed
two murders independent of one another. He used his boat
to dispose of the bodies of these victims, and he
stated that at least one of the bodies was disposed
of in Crescent Lake in Washington, where he used anchors
to submerge the body. And he said it was submerged

(01:09:48):
in more than one hundred feet of water, and that
he moved their cars a distance between where the vehicles
were found and where the crime occurred. And he didn't
say the people were So basically, when the it sounds
like when the FBI is interviewing him, he's just kind
of giving them the very most basic thing that might

(01:10:08):
even not be true, right, and that now you go
run and try to figure this out. Good luck with that.
So then he drives from Washington State to Anchorage, Alaska,
where he lives until his arrest. So from two thousand
and seven till twenty twelve, how do you get arrested? Uh,
it's at the bottom of this list. Look, I'm gonna

(01:10:30):
be honest, it's at the bottoms list they got.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Uh. Oh, I know what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
It's he murdered an old couple in Vermont and it
got a bunch of press and it was one another
one of his super random things. Oh no, I'm sorry
that that got They were like in the press a bunch.
But then he stole the ATM card of one of
his victims, and then when he went to his sister's
wedding in Wills, Texas, he started using the ATM and

(01:10:59):
they they got onto this stolen ATM cards being used
and they got him.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
There what a fucking rookie move.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
But it also sounds like after this much time, like
eleven years of just constant random catch me or he's
like I can't do this anymore, there might have been
a part of him that's just like I don't want
to do this. Yeah, because even even something great and fun,
after twelve years, you're like, ah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
I don't know, you know what I mean, Yeah, that's
not gonna worn.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
So then it just basically the rest of this fucking
thing is a list of cities and like very vague
crimes and people that they can't And when I was
reading it, and it goes on and on, and there's
a there's a Reddit thread that the person is like,
updated on this date in green, updated on this date

(01:11:54):
in purple. So they just keep on finding details and
they it literally is he bought a Southwest ticket from
Anchored j Alaska to San Diego. He walked on foot
into Tijuana. He was there for two days, walked on footback,
took a Southwest flight to Tempe, Arizona. And it's this

(01:12:16):
stuff where you're so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
He has this pattern, like with the entertaming girl, of
just grabbing them and dragging him too the woods. Not like, oh,
you know the person who disappeared, we saw her talking
to a you know, shaggy haired dude in a bar.
It's not like she's like he's taking them home, right, like,
you know, pretending to have relationship with them. He's fucking
dragging like there's no there's no connection. You're right, they

(01:12:39):
never saw this person before. Yeah, they don't. They probably
never saw him coming.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Like it's a place where people wouldn't be, like if
it's a trailhead snatched and then he's there and gone.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Also in the list as I'm reading it, he was
in Santa Rosa, which is the town above Pedaloma. Oh,
there's a whole part where he's in Napa Valley.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
He's all.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
He went on like a whole wine tourney up in
northern California and the whole thing is like that where
I just I started thinking about that where I got
super scared. I saw he flew into the Oakland Airport,
he rented a car, he drove up to Napa. Then
he stayed for like one night in one of those
whiny hotels. Then he drove to Santa Rosa where And

(01:13:22):
I'm looking at the years, like, my god, what year?

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
And was there anybody missing and doing? Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
And but then as I read the rest of the list,
It's like, and you could do that with every location
across America.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
But I wonder if he did. No, No, he.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Did, But why can't we find them, find what the
people that are that because they don't even know. It's like,
there's the missing persons for say tenth year Zona in
two thousand and seven. He did it all. Well, they
don't know yet. He could have done one. He could
have done them all. He could have just gone there,
drank wine and Napa and left. He's that like and

(01:13:58):
whatever he was doing, he had his cash thing. Yeah,
he never nobody ever saw him. He didn't go somewhere
to buy a knife. Yeah, oh god, yeah, he had money.
If something happened and they were like, you know, he
ran out of money, he would have a cash nearby
where there was like Bill's waiting buried underground.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
He's the fucking best boy scout in the world who's
also a.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Fucking dick if a boy scout went fucking nuts, just
like had to rub that stick to try to make
that fire and just snapped and was like, you know what,
I'm going to be the devil walking on earth.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Yeah, for eleven years.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Yeah, And it's just it's so random that That's the
other thing. I realized that this sucks because there's no
specific storyline or even like any anybody, because it's all
just like and then he probably killed one random place.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
Yeah, like he's the one that there was. I don't
know if you ever heard about that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
There were the two kids that were spending the night
on the beach in San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
They just got shot and I almost did one. But
it's just such a weird They think it's him. Totally
was him. They think it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
They do think that it's him, because it's the kind
of thing where when when that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
Murder connection, it makes no fucking sense. There's nothing left behind.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
They're Christian camp kids who are who are like trying
to just have a camp out one night on the
beach for fun, and they both get shot in the
head execution style. But there's no way they have anything
attached to, like a drug dealer or there's no reason,
and he is the he's the guy that's the no
reason murderer, because.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
That doesn't make any like there should be a pattern
to killers, you know exactly, and if you don't have one,
then you're probably less likely to get caught. Right. Fuck,
it's so crazy, it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
And also it goes on and on, and then at
the end of this thing, there's a whole chunk called
additional additional murders, and so it's like he would he
gave additional details regarding the abduction and the murder of
a female described as having pale skin, possibly having a
wealthy grandmother driving an older car.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
That's you, Oh my god, it's that there's just a
bunch of what a controlling shit thing to do. And
then you're like, you know how I'm gonna get out
of this kill myself.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
Yeah, because I'm sure that the the interviewers were like, Okay,
we're starting to we're starting this up. We're asking him
these questions we're.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Going to bring on Billy Bob. He's fucking cory to
getting shit out of people, like, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Like, yeah, we're gonna do this, and we're going to
start really putting some of the stuff together. And with
the information he's giving them, he's saying, I can I
can tell you everywhere I was, I can give you
all these details.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
And then but bye, goodbye. I'm not actually going like, well,
what a what a controlling.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Insane? So if you it to me, this is like
built for web slutes. Yeah, it's so totally it's so perfect.
But I mean it just goes on and on. But
if you go on there and you see if you
know of a missing person or some kind of murder case,
it's a really good comparison, I guess chart. Because you
have the years and you do have vague descriptions, you

(01:17:16):
can they say, if you have information, you can call
the FBI at one eight hundred call FBI.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
No it isn't Yeah, that's not enough. One, that's not enough.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
C A L that's three L FBI, that's four. Fuck,
they're not going to give you not enough numbers?

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
But what is wrong with my brain that I that call.
It was like that's three letters. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
But you're the one that's going to figure that out.
You're like, you know what, the FBI is fucking us
over right now?

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
That doesn't lean anywhere. It's not enough another mystery. Oh
my god, what a fucking idiot, Like I, what is
wrong with you know what? This natural path is going
to hear me? Because clearly I got some issues.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Uh So that's I feel like the Israel Keys case
is one where basically what I'm saying is go look
up the name Israel Keys because it'll freak your shit out. Yeah,
but there's not I'm sure there's plenty more to say,
and we'll hear about all of it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
But that's as much as I mean, like, that's ridiculous.
You do certain things like as someone who's very aware
of that murders happen, and you know, I do certain
things like when I use my credit card at a
fucking what are they called a meter? Yeah, a parking meter.
I'm like, here's this is another trace as to where
I was that day, like in case something happens, you know,

(01:18:42):
or like I go into a liquor store and the
cameras here, it'll show me going to the liquor store
that day. But if like if that's not if you
can't track someone else having followed you, or like between
this parking meter and something else, like if there's just
snatch and fucking grab.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Well yeah, because he's not going to grab you at
a parking meter or in a liquor store. He's gonna
he's going to grab the person that decided to go
on a nice nature walk by themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Don't do it, you guys, why would you do that,
not even by yourself with someone else, even which you
think you're safe. Go im packs of five with knives,
with fucking Rottweilers, with knives taped your hands, and knives
taped your Rottwhilers, and then just tons of guns and
just start shooting at any sound you hear. Anyone who
fucking approaches you, shoot them, shoot them. Disclaimer we're fucking joking.

(01:19:29):
You can't sue us. Yes, we're joking. We're not liable.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
So that's my super unsatisfying actual murderer case of Israel Keys.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
That's good. Okay, thanks, I did too. Sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
The one night you're like, can I get out here early?
And I'm like, you know what I'm gonna do give
you two.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
What a dick. No, we're good on time? Oh good
second the time. I mean we're not. But this is
more important to me. I'm sorry, public School at the Virgil.
That this is more important.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
What a great show. Please go to play school at
the Virgil once a month. Public School at the Virgil.
It's not as important as my favorite. Oh my god, No,
I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
It's such a good ship. That's a joke. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Should we each say one thing that we like or
that makes us happy, one thing that made us happy
in the past week.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Yeah, okay. Oh do you want me to go first?
Because I have one? Oh, you do have one?

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Okay, it is I've been listening to You Must Remember This,
the podcast by Karina Longworth, and I'm so obsessed with it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
I started.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Somebody recommended it to me, the Manson series because she
goes for good. It's Manson's Hollywood. I think it's called
and it's like a six part series. But she, I mean,
talk about research, talk about talk about a person who.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Cares whole her opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
I mean, if you hate us, this is a podcast
for you.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
You haven't made it to the end, but it is,
she's your spite listening right now. Yeah, and congratulates because
here's the payoff.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
It's such it's it's the kind of thing where I
didn't think I was that interested in old time Hollywood,
and it is fascinating. It's gossipy, it's kind of dirty.
There's all these things where you're like, I had no
idea that happened. It's just and it's beautifully done, and
so yeah, I highly recommend that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
That's like great. I was going to say, no, you
know what I'm going to say. So I found a
new author that it's like a true crime no, no, no,
it's a fiction, fictional author. I'm listening to her audiobooks
and it's like crime and it's fucked up and it's
fucking like a British procedural. Oh so I don't know
why I was didn't know that I was into this,
so I'm just fighting it. Yeah, but I like listening

(01:21:41):
to it on an audiobook. So it's called Blacklands, the
one I'm listening to right now by Belinda Bauer ba
u e Er. It's fucked like this is she's it's
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, it's because it's not. Yeah,
it's totally absolutely, I mean it is, but it's not. Yeah,
and it's not trying to be No, it just is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Yeah, it's good. That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Yeah. Uh, what do we wanna?

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Our website is up, and I should have a show's
page that has all our shows on it so you'll
be able to track it there.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
Yeah, all that information we tried to give you the
be or we did give you at the beginning, you
can have in like a way to reference.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
The website is called and I'm trying to think of
something like super like really dumb and funny that it
would be, but it's not. It's just my favorite murder
Oh you mean, like, oh the funck word murder mystery show.
Oh yeah, that would be cool.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Sorry, Oh, there's too much talking dot org something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
Uh. Skippers, skippers, skippers unite now, you guys, thanks for
uniting with us, Yes and listening. We fucking you guys
are the ones. You guys are the ones. You're the
one for me and the people who are for us,
and like we truly, truly, truly, truly truly thanks for listening. No,

(01:22:59):
stay sexy, don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie?
M good boy, bye bye. He did that right on
Key waiting he's been waiting. Yeah, he had him fucking
tearing up, like is him saying, fuck, what the fuck?

(01:23:19):
Where's the cookie? Yeah, he doesn't do that because his
fence always gives them cookies. And we're back, Karen. Any
any updates on any of us, Yes, there are.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Yeah, there's so many unanswered questions of course about Israel Keys.
How many victims he has, where those victims are, how
many states he hit? I mean, he was truly like
going out there trying to be uncatchable.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
So and because of that he was.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
In twenty twenty, the FBI released images of skulls that
had been drawn by Israel Keys with his own blood.
They were found under his bed in his jail cell
in a forty eight hours special FBI special agent Jolene
Godin explained, quote, he drew a series of eleven skulls,
and one of them says, we are one. We believe

(01:24:11):
that eleven is the total number of victims.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Wow. So you can look that up.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Obviously many true crime fans probably have already read it.
So the confirmed victims of Israel Keys are Bill and
Lorraine Courier, that couple from Vermont, Samantha Kaning of Anchorage, Alaska,
and that was Samantha Caanning's ATM card that Israel Keys
was using when he got caught in Texas. And we
have talked about Josh Hallmark's podcast True Crime Bullshit a lot,

(01:24:40):
but that was also in my reapproach to doing this story,
which is so gigantic. I started listening to this podcast.
It's really incredible. I really love it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
He is Josh.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
Lomark is such a great podcast host, and he's so
serious about really trying to find bodies, victims, any like
trying to clear missing persons cases from years back. It's
such incredible work that he has been doing for the
past decade. Hallmark says no murder kits have been found
since Key's death in twenty twelve, but over seventy topographical

(01:25:11):
maps various areas of the country were found on keys
computer by the FBI, and so Josh thinks that these
maps will help the FBI and others locate more murder kits,
cash or bodies that have been hidden.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
Essentially, can you imagine if they have been found those
kits and like someone didn't know what they were and
just just just threw them away.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
Yeah, you're just like walking through the forest and you
kick a couple of pine sprigs over and then there's
just a duffel bag filled with a very overt murder kit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
Call the police, people, please, please call the police. And also,
don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
If you have any information about any don't remember anything,
you can call the FBI at one eight hundred call FBI,
which Georgia doesn't think is a real phone number because
you said there's not enough numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
One I under recall FI is so funny.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
So that's uh, just the top scratching the surface of
Israel keys.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Wow, all right, Skippers, you made it to the end.
Don't skip this part. It's really important. It's about you.
It's about you because we're gonna take the pressure off you.
And if we were to name the episode something aside
from skipping the Skippers.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
Well, we could name it after George's joke about Stephen
giving me that diet coke tall Boy, and then title
would be Steven's your new Mommy.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
It's pretty comforting. Yeah, let's see Pond of shame. I
like that one about what you said about the show's success.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
Going to a natural path or walking down a natural
path to a pond of shame?

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Where were we? What were we doing? How much whiskey
had I had? And also like what you know? You
skip that?

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Yeah, that magic back and forth between you and I.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
You're gonna miss all the fucking holiday sauce that we
dump on ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
You don't unless you have high cholesterol, don't do it truly.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
And well there's parsonally on top of it anyway, so
you get your greens. Yeah, it'll clear you right out. Fine,
how about uh yeah, the cast roll of bad things.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
That's of course talking about Israel keys crimes, but also
so many things these days, just to cast roll of
bad things.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
That's true, some crunchy like topping on there. Yeah those
fried onions. Ooh yeah. All right, well, thanks skippers, Thanks skippers,
non skippers alike.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
More thanks to the non skippers. You're really in there
with us for this one especially. Yeah, and stay sexy
and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Good bye, Elvis. Do you want a cookie

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite!

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 46: Skippers Unite!