Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Live, Hello, and welcome to rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Every Wednesday, we recap our old podcasts with all new commentary,
updates and insights.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
And today we're recapping the epic episode fifty three, which
we named Produce spot On Right on the Nose Live
at the Orpheum.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Is kind of crazy that this episode is coming out
mired days after we announce our tour.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
The plan we made eight years ago.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
Is finally coming together.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's coming to fruition. We are geniuses.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
This episode came out on January twenty six, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Let's listen to the intro everyone of episode fifty three.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, come on, Hi, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Your very loud. It's a little bit too love here, guy,
what did you said? It's a little too loud. It
was a little bit too loud.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
It's a banana. I'm so glad you guys didn't go
to the marches and came here instead. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:35):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's pretty cool that we decided to do our live, first,
huge live LA show the same day that the revolution started.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm all right, yeah, hi, Hi, it started one one
like one. Dad is like, wait, where the fuck?

Speaker 6 (01:59):
Yeah, wake up daddy. It started.

Speaker 7 (02:03):
Fucking see you, Madonna said, fuck on CNN, it started.
You know, that's been the cue that we've all been
waiting for this whole time.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Man, that's my Madonna. That's the Madonna I remember.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh, that's Karen and that's Georgia.

Speaker 6 (02:22):
Okay, bye, and we're my favorite murder.

Speaker 8 (02:30):
Up.

Speaker 6 (02:31):
That's stupid. Let's never do that again.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
We never introduce ourselves, I know, we never say we're
my favorite murder. That's super lamey, I'm gonna fall. There's
a weird Let's go ahead and just take five minutes
to make this our own.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
So thank you guys, soul much.

Speaker 5 (02:49):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
All right, here we go, let's do it. Okay. I guess,
tell me, I guess.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Of all the signs I saw today, the one I
saw that I love the best was the one with
the picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Speaker 6 (03:09):
Did you see that one?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
No? Where It was like, oh, you fives better listen
when a ten is talking?

Speaker 5 (03:19):
Yeah, God, that's right.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Fuck dude, there's a new rating system and I couldn't
be happier.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Holy shit. There were a lot of good signs today.
I think one of being like a guy was holding
up a sign that was just like, I have nothing
to say because I'm sick of hearing men talk.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Come on, so many tweets and responses, Colin response bus,
so many things.

Speaker 6 (03:52):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Let's get deep.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Okay, look, here's the truth. This is the dress I
wore to the New York Live Show. Some of you
may recognize it.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I didn't know. Yeah, I have to tell on my side.
I pay attention to myself. I might have actually might
have worn this as something and I just don't remember.

Speaker 6 (04:08):
Well, let's want you to take a stand up and
let's take a look at it. No, you a walk,
let's both do it.

Speaker 4 (04:15):
No one, no, just walk it out.

Speaker 6 (04:18):
No, okay, I will because look, look, okay.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
The only reason I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
This is because if my sister saw the shoes I
was wearing with this dress, she would be so livid
at me. She's always like, take the time, buy a
two hundred and fifty dollars shoe you deserve.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
It is wrong with it. Let's like onesie twosies ook
at each other one, two, three, four dated. My sister's
actually better fives.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Better listen when these tens are talking, and by that
I mean the size of my shoe.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I bought a size too big at Target because they
didn't have nines.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I mean, sometimes you just gotta My feet are broken
because when I was younger, I was like, SI six
looks cuter than SIY seven. My actual real life sister
is here.

Speaker 4 (05:15):
No, don't know.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, let's get a spotlight on our Barbie, get my head.
That's right, Lee, you mother Flee.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Hey, she made you who you are today.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
She did a broken humana. I love you. You're the
best kid I've ever met in my life.

Speaker 6 (05:35):
Huh, well, I do have a present for you.

Speaker 9 (05:39):
Good.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
You can't keep sneaking presents at me, I certainly can.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
This one is the best because if the last episode
we talked about I talked about going to see Golden
Girls Live, which is the best show ever.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yes, that's right, let's cheer for everything.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Sita Stelle Campo, Drew Josy, Jackie Beach, Sherry Vine, Sampana Campo.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Everyone after the party, after party, go there.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
Yeah, it'll be the after after party.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
They're closed.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
We'll stand around on the parking lom. But so I
told Georgia that at the end of the last podcast,
then she told me about the mug they make, and
it is a mug that has the chest of the
Golden Girls live on it. So it's all those guys
dressed up like their characters and the Golden Girls. And

(06:31):
on the other side of the mug, one side is
that picture and the other side it says thank you
for being a cunt.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
And he did not.

Speaker 6 (06:41):
Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
So Georgia was like, I she told me about that mug,
but I had already bought her the mug at that
live show. But then had second thoughts because I was like, wait,
is she gonna think I'm passively aggressively calling her a cunt?

Speaker 6 (06:59):
Like, oh, here, thanks for being a cut?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
No, I don't, I don't think that deeply. Okay, good,
then here thanks for being a cut.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yes?

Speaker 1 (07:09):
What if I just went, yeah, smash it. Oh it's
anarchy tonight, ladies and gentlemen. I am a cunt and
I'm proud of it.

Speaker 6 (07:19):
Yeah, I mean too, it's fun.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Oh how do you feel about people who bring their
babies to protests?

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I don't give a shit about anything. The world is
about to blow up. You can fucking bring a dead
body to a protest to.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Show up, show up, love it, love it. Sorry it
was a strong reaction. I haven't it.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
I haven't had any protein a couple hours. I'm about
to go off.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
I'm doing that. Yeah, girl, it might have dustinate.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
No, because I actually in thinking I shouldn't give it
to you.

Speaker 6 (07:55):
I ran it through the washing machine, I mean the dishwasher.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
The dish Oh god, really that's so thoughtful. Oh, because
you're going to keep it.

Speaker 6 (08:03):
I was going to keep it. I was going to
keep it.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Great, thank you. I was going to keep it.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
And then imagine my chills when you were like, they
have this mug and I was like, what.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
We were fake?

Speaker 5 (08:16):
What it was?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Oh that sounds so weird. Well, thank you, that's so
kind of you. You're welcome. We were gonna Karen was like,
let's bring signs out and I was like, what kind
of signs? And then like we have this giant Elvis
head that we were given at the Chicago thing. Jake Graves,
what's up? And I thought we should say spe quiet.

(08:38):
I thought. I think I was like, well, what if
you write, uh, keep your hands off my cookies, because
that'd be funny. But I didn't. I didn't do it
because I needed a nap, that's right. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Some people are dedicated and they craft and they glue
and glitter, and then some people got.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Asleep some people. Some people tell a friend who's having
a meet up before they go to the protests. Some
people tell them that they're gonna show up. They can't
go to the protest because of anxiety, but they'll drive
everyone to the train station. And then some people can't
wake up before seven thirty, and then don't do that,
and then just promise we'll take me to lunch next week.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
How many people were involved in this? Because there's were
you all of them in that one?

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Uh huh? Okay, So I'm going to lunch alone next week?

Speaker 7 (09:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Should we start? It feels like we should. Don't you
feel like listening to a couple don't you feel like
listening to a couple stories? Thank all of you for
being a friend, right, that's for sure.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
Who's traveled down the road and back at you?

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Who's first?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh is a mean? Okay? Thank you? Here we go,
Hell I get a chill up, bunk out.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
And we're back.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Oh man, I wish I could explain the like sweaty, excited,
sunburnt from the march crowd that was there that whoy
oh yeah it was. They were already pumped up. It
was from the march.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
Such good energy, such good energy.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Everyone was dehydrated, so everyone got drunk faster.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
It's like people marched down into the streets of downtown
and then into the Orpheum Theater.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
That was the energy we got.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
That's so good.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
What's interesting is I have no memory of what dress
I wore that night, although I'm thinking it was when
I was on talk show The Game Show.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Oh, that's that's exactly it. I think you borrowed it
from the incredible fashion person on the set of that
show from Kia.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, Okia Banks is my stylist Talk Show The Game
Shows wardrobe person.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
I didn't wear.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Dresses though, oh on the show.

Speaker 6 (10:54):
Like I think it was probably like a black dress
with pockets.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Yeah, does the vintage when you have haves that beautiful
little like shift.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Because i'm picturing it, but I'm really just picturing a
black dress, so it could be anything.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
I mean, here's the thing I really repeated a lot.
They were like ll bean dresses that were like, hey,
lady that mostly likes to garden but sometimes is forced
to go to a dinner.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Party or uneral or a funeral.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
You can get it a nice colored scarf and put
it on this black dress with pockets. It's like kind
of body con is that what they call it. But
it's not too crazy.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well like it went in't at the waist, so it
gives you a waste. It gives you the like curves
you want.

Speaker 6 (11:35):
Some nice darts in the front and beautiful pockets.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
We need more of those.

Speaker 6 (11:39):
We neal bean lady.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
And yeah, that show was absolutely incredible. My sister was
there and he was in the house. I was so
nervous because it's our hometown show, which feels so different.
And ever since this show, I have been nervous to
do a show, like whenever we do shows in LA
there's something about it that's harder than New or it's

(12:00):
harder than like, you know, Chicago or Texas. It's like
it's our people.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, and it's also show business people who you know,
comics learn this very quickly when they come and do
sets in La. No one laughs because everyone's in the business,
so you don't want to seem like an audience member, right,
and that's the disease of Los Angeles, like everyone's too
cool for school. Therefore, you're like, oh no, we're going
to be facing down, you know, a bunch of blase

(12:26):
blase people as we're trying to get.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Up there, like, oh ever, ability do you like? But
of course our audience isn't like that's different.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
And all we had to do was be like, how
about that women's march, ladies and gentlemen, and then we're
off to the races.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
So let's hop into the La stories. This is Karen's
story about the La Ripper.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
So I decided, because we're downtown and it's such a
rich and uh storied past that the city has, and
we're in it, we're sitting in it right now, that
I would do an old downtown, old timey murder. Yeah,
and right, why not? So I decided to do the

(13:11):
murder of the La Ripper. Ever heard of that guy?
I know?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
They're all his grandchildren.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
They're like, how dare you speak of my grandpappy that way?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Okay, gotta tell me everything. Okay.

Speaker 6 (13:27):
This was a guy named Otto Wilson.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
He was born in Shelbyville, Indiana, graduated from high school.
In nineteen thirty, he moved to Indianapolis. He served in
the Navy in nineteen forty one, and then he was
given a medical discharge after his wife complained to the
San Diego Naval authorities about his unnatural impulses.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
That's all it takes. And he wants to touch my butt. Yeah,
don't touch your butt.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, it turns out that before she left him, ultimately,
and I guess after she made that complaint, he had
cut her butt with a razor. There was a quote
in this article I stole. I just it was straight
up like cut and paste plagiarism from two things that
I then forgot to take the actual names of the
people who wrote these articles.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
And that's my favorite Mariner.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
So there's some there's some very flowery language that is
not my own. I'll find it and say it later
with an apology and it'll be boring. But this was
one of the sentences that I love that I cut
and paste on too.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Here in the orphanage in the Navy.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
In his last months of drifting, women had always subtly
domineered over him.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I'm sorry, but like, fucking let it happen, bro, what's
the problem with that.

Speaker 6 (14:47):
Get into being domineered over.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
We know our shit. Chill the fuck out, you know
what I.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Mean, it's kind of hot to be domineered over. Sometime
Tom he.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Probably sucked it fucking and she was in the shirt,
was like, can you touch me in my life normal area?

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Like nope, undo the razor turn around, yeah, fuck you man.

Speaker 6 (15:09):
So it all kind of He was on a bender.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
His wife left him, things were bad for several years.
He on never November fifteenth, nineteen forty four. He had
been on uh, he had been on a two day
bender at that point, and at some point in that time,
he had bought himself a butcher knife. Fine, so what
did he just go into like Macy's or something kind

(15:34):
of drunk? You know how you do with hot dogs
at pinks, But with a butcher.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Knife you don't even need a license anymore to get
a butcher knife.

Speaker 6 (15:41):
That's right. You get him, Willy nilly.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
You can fucking register for one at a wedding, I
got Yeah, we've both done that.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
So he was at a bar and he met a
woman named Virginia Lee Griffin. It was on Main Street. Yeah,
dangerously faces to where we are now, but quite quite
a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
She told him her name was Virgie, and she's described
as a big young woman with lipsticksmeared too heavily on
her lips. I mean sounds familiar, though, I'm into it. Hey, Hi,
she was married, but her husband was away, and she
liked a good time.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Who does it?

Speaker 2 (16:26):
So they drank together and then they decided to go
somewhere more private, and he very gallantly held her arm
as they crossed the street in the rain, like this,
not like all nails. He has really weirdly long nails.
What if it's the guy from the Guinness Book of
World Records with the longest nails ever? He is like,

(16:48):
do you want to go somewhere more private? No, I
don't know what we're talking about it anymore. So they went
to the old Barclay Hotel, which I at that time
I think was relatively new. It wasn't I hate to
shit on someone else's writing that I'm stealing, but I

(17:09):
think it was pretty new back then.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
So apparently they say that she was.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Overheard as saying when she walked in, and this is
the way it's written. So I'm gonna do a little
voice for it if you don't mind. Here's the quote,
don't clapper than I won't want to do it, haven't
you don't you know me yet? Uh So she looked
up unsteadily as they walked into the hotel, and she said,

(17:36):
I got my horoscope, told Wednesday's my lucky day, honey, virgie.
And that's how you know that astrology isn't real. Because
this doesn't prove it. I don't know what else you need.
So they registered as mister and missus O. S. Wilson
of Steubenville, Indiana, and after they'd been in the room,

(17:59):
they had a drinks from a bottle of whiskey he brought.
She demanded more money from him. So the funny part
at that point is that they hadn't really mentioned that
she had gotten money before that. So she was a
sex worker, okay, or a married lady that liked to
have fun.

Speaker 6 (18:19):
Maybe that's the way they said it back then.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Fair enough, dude.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
I mean whatever, uh get yours. So what he said
to the cops was, somehow I got sore. I socked
her and then I cut her. I was going to
dismember her body and get rid of it, but I
found that I couldn't do it, so I left.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Oh what a gentleman, what a fucking an asshole? Uh?

Speaker 6 (18:42):
I got sore. I socked her. I mean that that's
how you know it's.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Not from now? So he lol. So he punched her
in the face so hard that he killed her. Right, No,
what you want go? No, I I was listening.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
You know.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
He was mad that she was like basically being kind
of greedy and like, you know, and he what he
would do was strangle them and then they would like
pass out, and then he would cut them and kill them.
So when he left the hotel room, he gave the
maid a dollar and he told her not to disturb

(19:24):
his wife. And then later on, of course, they found
the body and it was sprawled on the bed and
she had been slashed. Her body had been slashed open
from her throat to her vagina, and her entrails were
pulled out. It gets worse if you want to try

(19:47):
to really orchestrate the reactions and kind of tighten it
up and get shut it all together.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
There's no orchestra.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Her breasts had been cut off, and an arm and
the leg they were partly severed, and the murder weapon
a razor sharp carving knife lay near the body.

Speaker 5 (20:09):
Suck man.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
That guy was like halfway through and he's like, I
can't fucking.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I can't do it anymore. Fucking I'm tired. I'm tired.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
How many times have we said leave the eyes and
the boobies alone.

Speaker 6 (20:21):
They won't listen.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So he leaves the hotel after that fucking carnage, and
he goes to the million dollar theater to see Boris
Karloff in The Walking Dead. I don't know, it's just
fun to make some references.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
I don't know why pointing at everyone.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, just you know you you love that movie and
place and thing sickos. So when the movie was done,
he went to another bar, and he went and met
a woman named Lilian Johnson.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Uh huh, and.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
He took her the Joyce Hotel where they registered as
mister and missus O. S. Watson, same same day. So
he realized, uh he it was the same situation where
he gets into the room and then he told the
cops like, uh, I don't know, I just got mad.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I just got mad and I hit her.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
And but of course she was found in the exact
same condition that Virgie was found in. Uh And but while,
but apparently while he he beat her up, and then
he realized that he had left his knife at the
other hotel, so he whipsy he shaved, and then and

(21:42):
she was like, uh, unconscious on the floor. He shaves,
and then he takes the uh straight razor that he
just used to shave and and kills her and starts
to cut her up. Then on the way out of
this hotel, he stops by the desk clerk and says,
my wife sleeping, Please don't disturb.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Her code for I just murdered my this chick, I
just said my yeah. Uh So.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Witnesses from both hotels gave the cops similar descriptions.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
They took that information.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
They created a dragnet all around where we are right now,
and one cop is in a bar and he sees
a man matching auto's description in a booth in deep
conversation with a brunette in a tight red dress. Oh honey,
so he was he was going to do it again?

Speaker 6 (22:32):
He was, he was.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
He had lit his cigarette with a matchbook and the
matchbook said the Barclay Hotel, and his hands had blood
on them, and the cop was like, excuse me, I'd
love to speak with you.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
For a second, give it a week, like chill. He can't.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
He simply has no chill, so they bring him in.
He immediately confessed to both killings. He admits his compulsion
toward bloodlust, and he told his the police that his
his first wife left him because it would creep up
on her when she was naked and slash at her.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Buttocks with a razor. Fucking fuck, I mean, uh, that's
not cool. Uh, like one time you're like goodbye, Like
what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (23:23):
He told the cops that his favorite pastime was kissing
and licking the blood away, while he apologized for his
odd there's so many other pastimes, Like there's sailboarding and.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
You know how great like naps are, Yeah, naps, raccoons anything,
look up, look up like raccoons and the encyclops are
like amazing. Was their own food with their little hands.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
YouTube videos of ravens talking. They can talk. They talk
better than Paris.

Speaker 6 (23:58):
Yes, it's crazy and no one knows that.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Everyone here is like, why are you? Like it's true,
it is so true.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Anyhow, Look, I'm gonna wrap it up by saying that
doctor Victor Park in the defense psychiatrist and a member
of the Los Angeles Lunacy Commission.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Oh that's a thing. That's gonna be a thing again,
and we got to bring it back.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
You guys, that's the next march.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
This man testified that that auto was in a semi
automatic state and he had no feelings. Oh way up
top on that one, so fast, so fast, good. Uh.
He was in a dream like state. He didn't realize

(24:44):
he was butchering a fellow human. I disagree, baby, And
basically they said he was crazy. And so then Otto
Steve Wilson. I didn't notice that before Otto Steve Wilson
was executed in the gas chamber of San Quentin in

(25:05):
prison in September of nineteen forty.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
It says right here, but his son Anto Steve Ray
Morris Junior, Oh my god, so live today. Fuck.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
I noticed that Stephen would often scrape up against my
butt with sharp things.

Speaker 6 (25:25):
Enough of that.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Okay, that was awesome. Thanks.

Speaker 6 (25:30):
I appreciate it, guys.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
I didn't write it. I just read it and interpreted it.
Thank you. Okay, we're back, Karen. I know it's an
old story, so do you have any updates?

Speaker 3 (25:45):
None? So let's get into Georgia.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
We just turned.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
I mean it was so old. Yeah, you know, it's
a nightmare kind of. This is one of the og
serial killers of la And when you are a personal
follows to a clime you're like, oh, I know what
you mean by.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
That, because it's forty four yeah, in this year.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
But then it's like we're about to go on to
some horrifying serial killing in the Southland.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Hey everyone, Yeah, and then let's go to the Pacific Northwest. Yeah,
where they're the serial killer's children aren't again serial killers
and sold it's just.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, although you know, Georgia's story goes even earlier than that,
So should we get into that, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
This is Georgia's story about the Greystone Mansion and the
Doheny Martin.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Okay, mine is also vintage because there's a lot of
sad crimes today but not a lot of cool ones.

Speaker 5 (26:45):
Man.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, it's like a bunch of shitty shit, all right,
So jesus it wasn't real.

Speaker 6 (26:53):
Okay, do you want some Daika?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
No?

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Thank you? Uh? Greystone Mansion.

Speaker 10 (27:00):
I wrong?

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Also known as the Daheny Doheeny Murders.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
Am I wrong?

Speaker 1 (27:05):
People? I'm not wrong? If you're just said Doheeny Mansion?
Am I wrong?

Speaker 6 (27:10):
Never?

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Because three people were like, yes, yes, and I was
asking them, Am I am I wrong? No, You're never wrong?
So uh. The Doheit the Grayson the Greystone Mansion is
a fifty five room mansion in Beverly Hills. It's built
to nine twenty eight. At the time, it cost over
four million dollars to build and was the most expensive
home in California. Whoa, and it was also known as

(27:33):
the Dodheiny Mansion because it was a gift from the
oil tycoon Edward Doheany to his fucking kind of shitty son, Ned.
What's why are you talking? Ned?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Ned?

Speaker 5 (27:44):
All right?

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Ned might not be a shitty but okay, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (27:48):
If he's a Doheany, let's not be rude to Ned.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
And Ned is a here we go, Oh.

Speaker 6 (27:56):
Oh this is about Ned?

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (27:58):
Oh shit, I spoke to you and you don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
So Edward Johaney, the older dude comes from a poor
Irish immigrant background.

Speaker 6 (28:06):
Do not point at me.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I was like, remember, remember that it was only two generations.

Speaker 6 (28:13):
Ago you did that. I did it, okay.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
So in and in Edward's late like in the late thirties,
which gives me hope with my life. He becomes he
was super poor, and then he like becomes a California
oil tycoon. He drills.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
You can do it, I could fucking do that. Like
there's oil everywhere, you can find it.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Give him there. So he you know, you know on
like Los Cianago when you're on your way to the
airport and they're those like dinosaurs, yeah, like oils. Like
he's the guy who fucking found those, oh, the confidential ones, yes, yes,
and like the tar pits, like that's all that's all
him did.

Speaker 6 (28:52):
He made tarpau.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
He fucking may the tarpa.

Speaker 6 (28:54):
He sunk those dinosaur bulls.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
So he becomes the first successful well guy and like
there will be blood is like this's basically him, okay
uh And he makes a fucking fortune and then he
eventually owns one of the largest oil companies in the world.
And this is the nineteen twenties where everything was cool.
So his son Ned is living off the money and

(29:19):
like you know, pretending to be a businessman. And then
in nineteen thirteen, I think he's in his late teens
early twenties, he meets a man named Hugh Plunkett and
don't fucking let it. And then at the time, Hugh
is working at a gas station near the house owned
by like friends, and Hugh and Ned become good friends,

(29:42):
and Hugh starts working for the Dohani family and eventually
becomes Ned's personal secretary. Uh huh, and he travels with
him on business and they're like fucking tight as shit.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Okay, no, I get it. Med rolled up to the
gas station one day, He's like, see that gas, that's
my dad made, that washed my windows.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
According to a family friend, their relationship was more than
that of friends, and another said that they were like brothers.

Speaker 6 (30:09):
M M brothers that made out all the time.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Their enough. So in November nineteen twenty one, they the
two of them check into a suite in this fucking place,
and then Ned takes out one hundred thousand dollars, which
is about ten million in today's money, which I fucking
love hearing the oh everyone gasped that people love money.
Ten million, Like that's like the week we could, like

(30:33):
we could like retire for five years off of them.
Uh da da dah okay. So Ned takes it out
of his bank account and then he and Hugh go
to DC. They meet with this dude who's the secretary
of arian Form the Harding Administration, and Albert fun and
the guy. So, this dude, Albert Fall is a friend
of the older dude Dohini, and they hand him the

(30:54):
money and in return, Fall gives them a promise sery note.
And then I slept through history literally and fucking was
on drugs.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Okay, So basically there's some kind of an oily business
deal going down.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
You guys remember the words Teapot Dome scandal. This is it.
I don't fuck I know. Okay, something happens the like
Fall gives Dohany a bunch of shit and a bunch
of oil stuff and in exchange for the hundred bucks.
So it's like super shady and shit. And then so
Albert follows eventually charged with conspiracy to defraud the United

(31:36):
States as part of the Teapot Dome scandal. It's not
a problem anymore, apparently, give everyone money and get fucked yourself.
The hearing Ned so Ned the Sun has to testify
against his pops and he says that, you know, He's like, no,
we didn't do anything wrong, and Ned and Hugh his

(31:57):
fucking boyfriend boyfriend. They're implicated and okay, so at the end,
the dad gets acquitted kind of, and so as Ned's loyalty,
he builds him the Greystone Manor.

Speaker 6 (32:12):
Okay, oh shit, all right, I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
We're back.

Speaker 6 (32:16):
We're back in at the Greystone manner.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
Remember the biggest house you've ever heard of in your life?

Speaker 6 (32:20):
Can I just tell you really quick?

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I went and saw a play done in the Greystone manner. Yes,
where you walk around the play is happening a Greystone manner. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
because they do a thing. I can't think, maybe it's
for Christmas or something, but you walk around like you're
at this party, and then the actors are around you.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I hate shit like that so much.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
I think it's so embarrassing to be that close to
like an actor. L Oh, I have a vest done.
I was like, oh, don't look at me. But anyway, Yeah,
but the house itself was lovely. It's amazing. No, that's
fucking awesome. Okay, all right, Okay. Then Karen Kilgarre was there, yes,

(33:00):
finally of it.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Okay, So Hugh Start's going fucking crazy at this point
because he's like, I have to I'm just like a
poor dude, and I have to fucking testify against maybe
my lover and his pops and blah blah blah blah. Okay,
So on February sixteenth, nineteen twenty nine, Hugh, this is
the gas station, dude. He lets himself into the main

(33:24):
house because he had a key, and he used to
hang out in this room like it was his bedroom. Sometimes.
I'm in a belch. Really soon, do it?

Speaker 5 (33:34):
Okay? Uh?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
So, so Ned and Hugh they meet in this guest
bedroom and he's fucking the fuck out, apparently. And then
around eleven o'clock, Lucy, the wife of Ned, who's like
a fucking staunch Catholic, here's a shot while she's in
the living room reading magazines. And who does she call
to be like I heard a shot? So police? No,

(33:55):
they doctor, the family doctor. Oh what are you gonna say, Batman?

Speaker 5 (34:01):
You know.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
No, No, I just did. Rich people never call the cops.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
No, you called the fucking doctor. Call your lawyer, you can,
you call your anyone.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
And if there's so many people, the thing has helped
me an uncle, I'm I'm not going to name people.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
So he rive. Okay, So the doctor says to the
cops that he hears Hugh yelling at them from this
like place not to come into the room. And then
there's the second shot, and when the doctor goes in, uh,
he finds both men and the whole their whole story
is that Ned had been shot by Hugh and he
would shot himself like a murder suicide. And then I

(34:38):
wrote suspicious shit.

Speaker 6 (34:44):
I really's right there.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
So, okay, here's some suspicious shit. Ned's gun, the fucking
Dohemy dude's gun was the murder weapon. Super weird, right,
And before the police were called, the bodies had been
moved from their original position and the body and the
police weren't called until two am. So the first shot
is at eleven PM and the fucking cops are called
two am.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
They were moving stuff around. They were like, yeah, the
fucking bodies removed. Yeah, and the detective and so what
it looked.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Like is that that Ned was shot by Doheny in
the head and then Doheeny, who had a like a
lit cigarette in his hand, had like landed on the
gun after killing himself. Suspicious shit, right, Ok, Yeah, but
there were powder burns on the hole in Doheany's head,

(35:35):
which means the gun had been less than three inches
away from his head and killed himself, which usually points
to suicide. And there was no powder burns on a hue,
which every fucking person here is ever watching a fucking
discovery I D think knows that, Like you check for
powder burns, Yeah, and that's who shoots the fucking gun.
There weren't any uh. Okay, but with hours, the DA's

(35:56):
office holds a press conference and like, wells a murder
suicide and like this poor person killed this rich person
and like closed the fucking case. No autopsies, nothing, which
is like you're in charge of the media at that point. Okay,
So here are some theories. One was that it was
a murder suicide, but that Ned and Hugh had been together,

(36:18):
and that Ned and Hugh had been called to testify
on the bribery trials. Uh, but that Ned had been
assured immunity and Hugh had not, and he felt betrayed,
which is true. Ned was assured immunity against his father,
he was not. They were throwing him under the bus.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah, they were going to make the poor guy take
the fall.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah yeah, fuck this dude for Albert fall. Oh yeah.
The other was that Ned and Hugh were lovers, okay,
and that they had a fight, and that Lucy caught them,
the wife of uh Ned caught them and killed them herself,
which is why I shouldn't call the cops immediately. And
what supports either of the lover that they were lover

(37:00):
stories and that they killed each other in a lover's
quarrel is that they were both buried in Forest Lawn,
which is a secular cemetery. But the Dahini family were
devout Catholics, and you you don't. You can't bury someone
in a Catholic cemetery if they killed themselves.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Oh yeah, that's right, because suicide is a what do
you call it? Number one sens like a number one cardinal,
every Catholic ness who went there, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Okay? Or that they were lovers and everyone knew it.
And so they were buried like within a few feet
of each other in this secular fucking place, all right, okay,
And so they were buried together and close by, and
so no one really knows what why they killed each other,
or who killed who and why, but it seems very suspicious.

(37:59):
And also because of the sympathy that they had for
Doheeny having his son being killed. His investigation was basically
called off, which makes everyone think that maybe the senior
Doheiny fucking killed both of them, oh to get them
to shut the fuck up because he was getting off. Yeah,

(38:19):
was he got off because of his kid getting murdered.
So basically anybody in that family could have murdered them.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, essentially. And Christmas was fun. I bet at their house.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Okay, So now it's a city park now, and so
everyone looks meet there tomorrow. You can go there now
and just have tours and just chilling, have a fucking picnic.

Speaker 6 (38:42):
It's pretty amazing. It's an amazing house.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
It's supposedly cool, beautiful, but it's also supposed to be haunted.

Speaker 6 (38:48):
I hope.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
So yeah, if all that happened, dude, Yeah, all right,
nice one. Hey, look those are our murders. Thanks was
that it? Are we done well? We now have some
special guests to bring out because as you know, yes,
it's very exciting. Uh, this is the portion of our
show that we normally do hometown murders, and so we

(39:12):
thought it would be fun to have our two friends
are our brother podcast.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
You might want to say.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
From the doll up Dave Anthony and Gary Reynolds.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yay, good over there, you get over there?

Speaker 5 (39:35):
Did you care?

Speaker 1 (39:38):
How can you surround us?

Speaker 10 (39:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 11 (39:42):
Really take the staye Okay, so Ned and who's the
other guy?

Speaker 5 (39:46):
What?

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh?

Speaker 9 (39:47):
C They were totally they were totally fucking because someone
came in and saw fucking and then they killed them
and then they put their clothes on and moved them around.
About that, they moved them around their.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
After murder dress. Why else would you be moving the marona?
For sure?

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, all of it. I didn't want to say that
because I'm not a fucking Yeah.

Speaker 5 (40:07):
They were totally getting it on. Okay, you've been clear.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
We all have theories day.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Oh yeah, okay we are back.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Are there updates for this story?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Again? No updates because it's too old vintage should we
call it vintage? But you can go see the manor
the interactive play that made you uncomfortable, Karen, obviously this
is great advertisement for them. Yes, you can go see it.
It's performed annually, typically each January through February at the
Greystone Mansion. It's an immersive room to room performance inside

(40:44):
the mansion. I mean that sounds awesome. Telling the dramatized
version of the Doahini murders. It's become a local institution,
often selling out before even general release.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Listen, I give this an a plus in terms of
performance concept. You're in the mansion whatever. What makes me
uncomfortable is as a person who was like a drama major,
I'm like, how come she got that part instead of me?
There's all that kind of stuff like this. Yes, you're
outside of it, but when you're actually at it, you
just are really in this situation watching these people.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
It's very very cool. That's such a cool gimmick. I
wish there were more places set and stuff like.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
That, the immersive style of yeah it's cool.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, So you can find more information at Theater forty
four zero dot org. All right, and then we had
very special guests. Our dear friend and supporter of the
podcast from the beginning, Yes, Dave Anthony from The Dollop,
and he is going to talk about Ken McElroy.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
A detractor of this podcast from the beginning is Gareth Rennel,
who's also from The Dollop.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
No, just kidding, but here's.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
The producorial decision that I still can't believe that we made.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
We had both of them tell stories.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
What the fuck?

Speaker 6 (41:51):
It was way too long. Yeah, no one needs four stories.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I think we were just like excited and we were
there and we were just like, the more the marriage.
But I feel bad because by the time Gareth was
telling his story, everyone's like, shut.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
The fuck up.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
My butt's not.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Let's stopped any that everyone.

Speaker 6 (42:06):
I saw a lot of twitter.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
We didn't drive up there to listen to two men talk,
you know on the like women's March day, where I
was just like.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Oh, okay, that makes sense if we had had like
a strong female lead come on stage and Galvin, what
the fuck?

Speaker 10 (42:21):
I know?

Speaker 6 (42:22):
All right, well, sorry that we were self produced.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
Yeah, Dave and Gareth apologies. We just set them up
for failure. But they did a great job.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
They did a great job, and we had a great time.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
That's right, That's all that matters.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
We should have just had one less story.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
We heard you guys have hometown murders.

Speaker 9 (42:41):
I don't have a hometown murder, so what so you
know last time was on I did my hometown murder.
So uh, there's a there's a murder that everybody who
listens the doll up has always been like, you have
to do this one, and I'm like, we don't do
murders in a couple of ways.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
What do you mean we don't murder people, we don't
cover them.

Speaker 9 (43:01):
Oh uh, we've actually started murdering people.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
I'll bring you in on it. Thank you.

Speaker 6 (43:07):
You guys need to have a team meeting.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
We should have a meeting. It's been too long. Turns
out we're not communicating. I've been killing our fans. Okay,
well we should catch up more often.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
I think now you keep losing one fan a week.

Speaker 5 (43:23):
Here's the murder.

Speaker 9 (43:23):
Okay, so I'm gonna tell you guys, so my sorry,
this is sorry, go ahead, I am.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I just remembered something that I.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
Used to slash your buttocks.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Oh that's the scars.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
How dare you speak of our secrets this way? At
the orpheum know that you guys did that.

Speaker 6 (43:46):
We did the.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Tail and all murders, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
And then we did the Bagwe shweet raj Niche, which
I didn't know that you guys have.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Just yes, they did it. Yeah. The same time, don't
fucking write our coatails man, No, whoa, whoa?

Speaker 9 (44:01):
I feel we put out the title on on like
within hours of each other. Right, yes, so, but you
guys did it from the murder perspective, and I did.
We did a different perspective that the that the fucking
guy kept admitting to it and he didn't do it
like the guy who they thought did it.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Crazy.

Speaker 9 (44:18):
Yeah, it's some guy out there who's still out there.
That guy's still out there much. He's like staring at it, Cedrin, dude,
like he's.

Speaker 5 (44:26):
Ready to go, that guy. Do you think it's a un.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, I could totally be the universe, I promise you.
Koresh right, Nope, not Koresh.

Speaker 5 (44:41):
Is dead.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
A hundred bomber Forrash. That is why I love you.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
None of you are here for fucking facts. Don't fucking
come at me. I don't know what I'm like.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
I'm embarrassed, so sorry I interrupted you anyway, Crash crash
didn't he burned up on a house with some.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
Yes, even angel I believe that t't.

Speaker 9 (45:07):
People also think of that he is the the San Francisco.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
They think that's stupid. Right, it's Ted Cruz.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
We're going to solve it all tonight.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
Yeah, it's really we'reknocking a lot down.

Speaker 6 (45:24):
Sorry, Dave Tellgores.

Speaker 9 (45:26):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Karen knows what mine is. I should
have brought it up. I should have had on my iPad.
Ken mckilroy, Nope, that's not right, No it is. It's mckilroy.
I didn't even notice that when I was writing it.
Mc E L R O Y McElroy. Right, we're all
on drugs.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
His fucking name is killing. Should have seen that coming. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (45:49):
He's born in nineteen thirty four. He was the fifteenth
of sixteen children.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Is he a rabbit? The fuck?

Speaker 8 (46:01):
It was just like how caviars birthed run be free
children all of you.

Speaker 9 (46:06):
Now, Oh my god, that is just like the baby
comes out and he's like, let's do it again.

Speaker 6 (46:15):
Do you even like.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Know your parents if you're the fifteen or sixteen.

Speaker 9 (46:20):
No, your eldest brother's like, I'm called dad. So they
lived in a four bedroom house. So let's do some math.

Speaker 6 (46:29):
Yeah, that's not thirty two people to a round.

Speaker 5 (46:32):
That's exactly right, Karen, Your math is exactly right.

Speaker 9 (46:38):
He never learned to read well. He never really had
a great job. He quit school in the fifth grade.
I wonder I never got a good job.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
I don't know. Are there any facts about that. I
don't know.

Speaker 9 (46:50):
They lived that sore outside of Skidmore, Missouri, a ton
of about four hundred and fifty people, has two hundred
two paved streets.

Speaker 5 (46:57):
They were all of them. It's our town.

Speaker 9 (47:04):
Two paved streets, no traffic lights, one small mom and
pop store, a gas station cafe.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
That's it. That's the whole deal. So he started stealing animals.

Speaker 9 (47:17):
Sure, he started stealing animals before he was eighteen years old.
He bought an old sedan and he took the back
seat out and he put plywood down. Oh and then
he'd drive around a night and steal pigs. All right,
I mean, okay, well he had a plan. It's Missouri,

(47:38):
you know, it's classic Missouri.

Speaker 6 (47:40):
For some reason.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
It is like when you picture like dogs or cats,
it's like, oh god, and it's like he stole pigs,
and it's like this is funny.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
I like this story.

Speaker 9 (47:51):
Well he would sell them, they would take he would
steal them and sell them to someone who wanted to
buy pigs.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
That's better than killing pigs.

Speaker 9 (47:59):
I mean, oh yeah, he wasn't taking him out and
killing him. He was like to eventually kill him now
fair enough. Yeah, I mean people are eating these pigs
with me at the end. At the end, it's the
story is not great for the pigs.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Just want to feed them peppermints and put them on YouTube.

Speaker 9 (48:13):
I'm not sure you've ever been to a farm. So
he married for the first time at the age of eighteen.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
She was sixteen.

Speaker 9 (48:24):
They moved briefly to Denver, but he couldn't keep a
job there, so he and his wife moved back. He
started hanging out with two of his raccoon hunting buddies.
You guys, earlier I was talking about raccoons. Yeah, you
were making this sound cute. They are horrible monsters.

Speaker 5 (48:42):
Oh that's not fair. That's come into my backyard and
do this.

Speaker 9 (48:47):
So I don't know what right they tell you stories
about you, this asshole.

Speaker 5 (48:52):
He's like, you know they do that about you?

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Actually, can I tell a true story?

Speaker 10 (48:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:57):
One time I heard a noise at my back door
in the middle night. I was scared shitless, but I
had to go see before I got a dog, and
I to go see by myself. And so it was
like a weird tapping sound. And so I go over
and I turn on the porch light at the back
and there was a raccoon that was that was trying
to get through the like built in cat door like

(49:18):
with his little raccoon hands. And when I flicked on
the light, he kind of like sat up and looked
at me, and then.

Speaker 6 (49:24):
We were just staring at each other.

Speaker 5 (49:26):
Yes, that's what they do.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
I kicked the door right like the last time.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
He's leaned over like this, you know, kind of trying
to tap on the thing. And then I kicked the door,
thinking he's gonna run away, and then said he goes
and just kind of like stood up and paused at.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Yeah, and that's her, that's her dog, Frank, Now he
fucking Okay.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
So I'm I'm in.

Speaker 6 (49:49):
My worthy act out at all.

Speaker 5 (49:51):
I'm going to do an act out.

Speaker 9 (49:52):
I'm in my backyard and I hear all this I
hear all this noise, and I'm like, well, there's raccoons
getting in the.

Speaker 5 (50:00):
Cat's food one or the other and uh.

Speaker 9 (50:02):
And so I go out there and I grab it
back because wreck I know, raccoons are terrifying. I'm not
like her where I'm like, hi, raccoon, I have a bat,
to be fair. And I come out and there's a
raccoon and it comes out and it's like this in
front of me, and I'm like, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 (50:17):
I tapped the beat on the ground and it's.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Like his stance got wide.

Speaker 5 (50:22):
He's like, what are you doing? Yeah, he had a
bat too, and I'm like and I'm like, you're supposed
to be scared, and he's like, I'm not scared. You're
doing his voice story and then and so I'm doing that.
I'm like, get out of here, fuck her.

Speaker 9 (50:40):
And then he's standing there and he's making him so big,
and then his four buddies go trucking.

Speaker 5 (50:44):
Buy like he was. He was fucking the He was
like the distraction.

Speaker 9 (50:49):
Guys could run off, terrifying.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
He's like when there's the midnight bicycle riders and one
of them stops in the middle of the fucking bunch
of you.

Speaker 11 (51:05):
Fixed you motherfuckers midnight ride. Okay, deiled. So he he
goes out hunting with his buddies and they shoot. They
shoot raccoons, and I assume they eat them.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
What else would you do with him? Make it delightful? Raccoon?

Speaker 9 (51:25):
But mostly what he did at night was steel cattle, horses,
and hogs. He now at a horse trailer that he
used to move stolen animals, and in this in this
part of Missouri that didn't really brand animals, so it
was super easy for him to steal. He was also
very skilled at harassing witnesses. He had an attorney who
he would retain for five thousand dollars per felony, who

(51:47):
would keep him out of uh, out of a jail uh.
And this was not a problem because he had a
lot of money. He was always living large. He had
a big roll of cash in his trucks, driving a
new digs. Was it pig money, he's he's he's stealing
pigs and cattle and horses and selling other people.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
So we had that fuck you pig month.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah, like the four hundred and fifty people in his
fucking town. Yeah, Like wait a minute, yeah, nobody howl.
And also someone was like, I'm gonna marry him.

Speaker 12 (52:18):
I have he's got it all a van with pigs swowon.

Speaker 9 (52:29):
One time a farmer caught him stealing horse, two horses.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Tortoises, two tortoises.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
What you do with my tortoises? Boy?

Speaker 1 (52:39):
They ran into my car.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
I haven't milk, I haven't milt them yet. Ran So well,
we can move.

Speaker 9 (52:49):
So the farmer reported it to the cops and said,
this guy stole my horses and filed charges and uh
and McElroy visited the farmer the next day with the
right and hit him in the face with the butt
of the gun and then the farmer dropped the charges.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
He was like, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
I didn't I see her point. Yeah, I'm on your
side now.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (53:12):
Well, when mclroy was twenty, he had a child with
a woman who is not his wife.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
At the same time, he was dating a fifteen year
old girl.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Like this guy, dude, this guy gets so many fucking chicks.

Speaker 9 (53:24):
Yeah, oh, he's he's a very hot prospect in town.
Well he's got the pig car.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
Yeah he smells like pig. I mean him.

Speaker 9 (53:33):
This girl's named Sharon and they had a complicated, messy
relationship and one day they were arguing and he shot
her in the neck with a shotgun. She did not die,
but she did have scars because that'll happen. She was okay, Yeah,
she lived after getting shot and.

Speaker 8 (53:49):
Yeah, oh she had a fear of guns after it,
some irrational fear.

Speaker 6 (53:54):
And she felt like dating someone else.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
After that.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
After that, she forgave him.

Speaker 9 (54:01):
Yeah, good, good, good, and he divorced his first wife
and married her. They had two kids. Then around Wow, yeah,
not quite a turn around.

Speaker 5 (54:11):
You know what love? Love is fucking.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Awesome, stupid crazy.

Speaker 9 (54:16):
Then, around nineteen sixty one, Macroy started dating a thirteen
year old girl.

Speaker 5 (54:20):
What's going out? What he's start? You've like slowly inched
it back, creepier and creepier. It started, and it wasn't okay.
So he's twenty seven at this point.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Ah, yeah, twenty seven year olds are fucking disgusting. We
all know that.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
Also, at this point, he's living with his parents. Oh
my's this guy there?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Dream day?

Speaker 8 (54:45):
Yeah, wait a minute, you live with your parents, smell
like pigs and shoot girls.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
You're still available? Oh you're not. I'm stilling, I'm stilling. Yeah.
So they have a farmhouse.

Speaker 9 (55:00):
So he moved Sally in with his parents and his wife, Sharon.
So so it's his girlfriend and his wife and his
parents and their kids.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
What.

Speaker 9 (55:13):
So Sally had three kids and Sharon had two more.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Honey.

Speaker 9 (55:18):
Mackai then met and started seeing another underage girl named Alice.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
In nineteen sixty four. Yeah, she was twelve, shut up?
What shut up?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
I wish the story would end that all the ladies
fucking murdered him and moved to New New York City,
and then like, you know.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
Okay, that's what I was gonna say, this is the
story of the rock but it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
That's how the Rockets began.

Speaker 5 (55:48):
And then he met a young woman named Marcia. She
was now living there.

Speaker 9 (55:55):
And then so it's Marcia and Alice are living in
in his parents house with the six kids.

Speaker 5 (56:01):
And then he met twelve years eighty bunch coming out there.

Speaker 9 (56:05):
Then he met twelve year old Trina jam who was
an eighth grader, and he he seduced her.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
He didn't, yeah, her candy and yeah, he's left. That's
not seduction.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
Point, that's not seduction. It's not seduction.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
No, he sucking put the sex, he moves. He was
just like, I'm a.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
I'm a man, you're a girl.

Speaker 9 (56:29):
That's what seduction is. Yeah, this is my pig. Yeah
have you ever seen a pig? And then you're in
your sedan on the on the wood floor. Uh, he's
thirty seven, by the way, Oh you this point, so
to have Trina moved in, he kicks out Marsha, He's like,

(56:52):
you're old, you're like thirteen. Uh So, then Trina moves in,
drops out of school in the ninth grade, and is
pregnant by the time she's fourteen. Things weren't going the
well because just sixteen days after the birth, Alice took
off to her parents' house. The escape lasted just hours
because Maceroy came to the home with a gun and

(57:14):
forced the girls to come back with him. Oh, Alice,
her other friend who's there now.

Speaker 5 (57:21):
The other one also went with her, Maureen, man call
her Maureen. Maureene goes back also.

Speaker 9 (57:29):
So then he brings them back when he beats them
both good and made them have sex with him, and then,
which I believe is called rape.

Speaker 5 (57:39):
Yes, yes, right.

Speaker 9 (57:41):
And then when he was done, he brought Trina back
to her parents' house and shot the family dog. That yeah,
and then and then pour gas all around the house
and burned it down.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
Es.

Speaker 9 (57:57):
So he is in fuego, Like he's just fucking as
far as being horrible, he's killing it.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Yeah, and he's doing very well, man, God like just
fucking chill out, Yeah, just chilling.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
I'm not a solution, George, it won't work.

Speaker 9 (58:15):
I'm not sure if someone who walked in and gone, dude, chill.
We don't know what would have happened.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
We don't we know.

Speaker 9 (58:24):
A couple of days later, Trina went to a doctor
because you know, she had been beaten, and he was like,
you look like you've been beaten, and uh, you're very good.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Is this doctor from the city. He never really knows
this stuff.

Speaker 5 (58:39):
Boy, your degrees are real. Huh you put the nail
on the head, duck.

Speaker 9 (58:47):
He slowly got the story of the beating out of
her and the dog shooting and the arson.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
So uh.

Speaker 9 (58:53):
The doctor contacts the social welfare agency, who put Trina
and her baby into foster care because she.

Speaker 5 (59:00):
Was a child.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
And uh.

Speaker 9 (59:04):
And then the case was taken to the district attorney
and on the basis of Trina's testimony, Macroy is indicted
for arson, assault and rape.

Speaker 5 (59:13):
But it was not looking good.

Speaker 9 (59:14):
He was represented by defense attorney Richard Jean McFadden, who
said McElroy was his favorite client because he always paid
cash and he always came back.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Wow, get your shit another What the fuck is wrong
with you?

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Dude?

Speaker 5 (59:30):
Like that's the worst. Hey, you're back. Who you do,
all right? What to shoot a pig or a person?
What you do a person doghouse, all right, trifector, alright,
I'm gonna buy a house boat die for me to
live out of a boat.

Speaker 9 (59:49):
But even with his five thousand per felony charge, the
attorney told him it would be difficult for him to
be acquitted, but Macroy would not give up. He found
the Foster home where Trina was living and began make
threatening phone calls.

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
He would sit out in front of the Foster.

Speaker 9 (01:00:05):
Home for hours and hours, sometimes shooting a gun into
the air.

Speaker 5 (01:00:10):
What he then called the Foster family a nerd.

Speaker 8 (01:00:14):
Yeah, yeah, it's a cartoon.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
He sounds like a cartoon.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
What about this is a morgag?

Speaker 9 (01:00:23):
Did I not tell you this was Yosemite sam story.
Then he called the Foster family and said he would
trade quote girl for a girl to get his child back.
By this, he meant he knew where the Foster family's
biological daughter went to school and what bush she rode.

Speaker 5 (01:00:42):
So that didn't go well, and the.

Speaker 9 (01:00:44):
District attorney then hit him with eight more felony child
molestation charges as a relative a result of his sexual
activity with Trina. The attorney kept using delay tactics, and
after a while, Trina decided to go back to McElroy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
I can't go through this again with you, Dave.

Speaker 9 (01:01:04):
He then arranged to divorce his second wife, Sharon, from
whom he'd been separated for years, and married Trina. To
get Trina's parents to agree, he threatened to kill the mother,
and the mother was like, okay, you can marry my daughter.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
We like him.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
That sweet.

Speaker 9 (01:01:26):
So this solved all his legal problems because being his wife,
Trina could not be compelled to testify against him. She
also signed a statement saying she had lied about everything,
and McElroy beat.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
The charges and his wife.

Speaker 9 (01:01:42):
In nineteen seventy six, he shot an arm a neighbor
farmer in the face and stomach.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
The gum was leaded with bird shot.

Speaker 9 (01:01:50):
The lawyer also delayed as long as possible while Macroy
intimidated the farmer, driving by his house, shining a spotlight
into his windows at night, destroying his tractor, and shooting
guns into the air. The farmer said mclroy parked outside
his home at least one hundred times and would just
sit there. At the trial, two of his raccoon hunting

(01:02:10):
buddies said they were with him the day of the shooting,
and McElroy got off again. The pattern committing crimes then
intimidating witnesses went on for four years. Then in nineteen
eighty two of his daughters went into a town store.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
So he's got two daughters. So the one's like a
teenager and there's five.

Speaker 9 (01:02:26):
So the older girl buys something, and then as they
walk out, the five year old girl grabs a couple
of little pieces of candy. I did that, and I did,
and the clerk was like, hey, put that shit back,
and then the girl was like and threw it back
and was mad, which is cool for a five year old.

(01:02:46):
And then a couple hours later McElroy and Trina showed
up and McElroy was just kicking it with a knife,
and Trina and the owner argued about how she treated
he treated the daughter, and then the couple said, well,
you're banned from our store.

Speaker 5 (01:03:02):
You can never come back. Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:03:04):
So McElroy started harassing the owners and then after a
couple of months he pulled up in the back of
the store and shot the husband owner in the neck
with a shotgun.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
And he lived.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
This whole city is filled with people with the most
powerful necks.

Speaker 6 (01:03:22):
Titanium necks, Yes, what is it? The water or like that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
They their necks are bulletproof.

Speaker 6 (01:03:29):
It's so strange.

Speaker 5 (01:03:31):
But like cool. Now.

Speaker 9 (01:03:34):
McElroy was arrested again and then he started harassing the
store owners.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
And he made to stop harassing and shooting in the
neck and the air and married children.

Speaker 5 (01:03:47):
There's a lot of things for him to knock off.

Speaker 9 (01:03:50):
Dude's got a dude's got a thing like this thing thing. Well,
we're being very clear, I mean taking up with PEPSI
because they response.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Ring him for doing all this.

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
Yeah, he had like four sponsors.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Was just like, what's the extreme sports thing when you
can skateboard?

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
He's like X games, X game like he did it
all on a little bike og X games.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
Uh so uh.

Speaker 9 (01:04:17):
He starts harassing the store owners and then when he
heard that the town minister had gone to visit the
store owner in the hospital because of his neck wound,
he turned his wrath on the minister and told the
minister he was going to castrate him and cut his
son to pieces in front of him.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Chill.

Speaker 5 (01:04:35):
So the minister started carrying a gun. It's a good town.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
I like that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:41):
Just because the minister went and visited him. He's like, well,
I'm going to cut your kid up.

Speaker 6 (01:04:44):
If you're Oh, He's like, it's my job.

Speaker 9 (01:04:46):
I go and I see people that are hurt. I'm
cutting your balls off. So his lawyer's whole thing was
delay tactic. So we started the delay tactics again. He
keeps delaying the trial. Meanwhile, McElroy would sit in the
local bar and talk loudly about he was going to
how he's going to kill the store owner.

Speaker 5 (01:05:06):
But it didn't work.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
It was empty and it was like three people and
he was talking loudly.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
And I can hear you. I'm gonna kill him, dude,
sick of that guy? Right, someone should shoot him at
the neck?

Speaker 6 (01:05:19):
Okay, I will.

Speaker 5 (01:05:21):
So it didn't work.

Speaker 9 (01:05:23):
There was a trial and McElroy was convicted of second
degree assault and sentenced to two years in prison.

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
But but.

Speaker 9 (01:05:34):
It being Missouri, he was allowed to stay free while
he appealed.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Four days later, he was back in the local bar. Hey,
how'd your conviction go? Oh? All right, guilty, guilty, totally
fucking guilty. Here I am drinking a beer.

Speaker 9 (01:05:55):
Uh, and then Trina came in and handed him a
large gun. He said he was going to kill the
store owner, but having a gun was a violation of
his parole. So he was charged on the dave Is
Hearing for his pro violation. The entire town decided they
had had enough.

Speaker 6 (01:06:17):
Yeah, I like the sound of this.

Speaker 9 (01:06:19):
After twenty years of been fucking all their daughters, right,
that's it. But when they got to the courthouse they
found out the lawyer had gotten it postponed for ten days. Now,
they were pissed, and they finally decided they needed to
do something, and they all went to the American Legion.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
I loved it. In this little town, they do have
an American Legion yet that in the Sam's Club.

Speaker 9 (01:06:49):
So they have a town meeting and they called the
sheriff and asked the sheriff to come by. The sheriff
comes by and they tell him what's going on. And
the sheriff told them that they should just start a neighborhood.
Why mmmm, So he's not he's not very helpful.

Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
Meat agent McGruff.

Speaker 8 (01:07:07):
He's gonna help you with this case.

Speaker 9 (01:07:11):
So, so there's the guys been uh fucking your daughters
and shooting you in the neck.

Speaker 5 (01:07:16):
You need like a watch group.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Have you guys made any kind of a phone tree
or anything called each other?

Speaker 5 (01:07:24):
What you do.

Speaker 9 (01:07:28):
He told them not to confront McElroy, and then the
sheriff just left.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Goody, they were there, but like they all had titanium necks.

Speaker 5 (01:07:38):
Yes, at this point they all have metal neck guards. Right.

Speaker 9 (01:07:44):
Then Trina and McElroy show up and went to the
bar for a drink. When the towns people heard this,
they all decided to go have a beer.

Speaker 5 (01:07:56):
Trina was said to be.

Speaker 9 (01:07:57):
Very intimidated by all of the townspeople still ending around
while McElroy coolly finished his beer, went up and bought
a six pack, and then went outside. Outside there were
three or four guys, uh, and they got their rifles
out of their trucks. And then the entire crowd came
out of the bar and followed him to his truck.

(01:08:19):
And it was said there were at the very least
thirty five people, but probably more like sixty.

Speaker 5 (01:08:26):
All standing there.

Speaker 9 (01:08:28):
And Trina and McElroy then got inside the truck and
he coolly lit a cigarette. And then Trina looked across
the street and saw a man aiming a rifle and
she yelled, they've got a gun, and then they shot
at him from more than one direction. McElroy was hid
once in the head and once in the neck, and
the shot.

Speaker 5 (01:08:50):
That head wound.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
It was the headworm.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
You gotta shoot in the neck unto legally.

Speaker 9 (01:08:56):
Welcome to neckvill motherfucker. Many other shots at the truck.
All the shots came from different guns, and McElroy died
instantly from the gun shots.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Right, No, from sadness, about suicide, about suicide.

Speaker 9 (01:09:20):
It looks like he did it to himself. About five
of monoxi. I got it about forty five minutes later.
They called an ambulance.

Speaker 6 (01:09:29):
Wow, yeah, sorry, that's sarcastic.

Speaker 9 (01:09:31):
Actually, yeah, Unfortunately, no one saw the shooter, Yeah, except Trina,
who identified him. She was in the truck, you know,
and she saw him. But the DA declined to press
charges because everyone was like, he was there too, Yeah,
he was the guy hitting him with the iron pan

(01:09:52):
on the head. The FBI came in to investigate, but
they also could not president charges because everye of the
town was like, I don't know. He left behind ten children,
ten wonderful children, and a few a few wives. After

(01:10:12):
his death, cattle and hog wrestling in the county dropped significantly.
In nineteen eighty four, Trina Fhile the six million dollar
lawsuit against the town and the sheriff and the mayor
and the guy who had shot him across the street.
The case was settled out of court for seventeen thousand dollars.

Speaker 6 (01:10:33):
Oh good, so she bought a yrs.

Speaker 8 (01:10:37):
Yeah, that's own fully fully owns a right.

Speaker 5 (01:10:44):
So that's my favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
That's pretty good.

Speaker 9 (01:10:48):
But god, yeah, he was a fucking monster and they
killed him. There was nineteen eighty one and they killed
them and everyone was like, I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:59):
Yeah, what are you do? We'll get there again, We're
on away, let's kill Okay, great, I'll thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
You know when I can't.

Speaker 9 (01:11:12):
Last time I came on, I wrote a story about
a guy from my hometown who killed women. And I
can't do those stories because I feel weird as a guy.

Speaker 5 (01:11:19):
Read well your sex well to that point, I'll get
into mind.

Speaker 9 (01:11:26):
This is about me ment killing women, right, It's the
same story as yours, just.

Speaker 6 (01:11:32):
A different interpretation, totally different take.

Speaker 8 (01:11:35):
I do it from the big angle, so this will
be fun. I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, so ripe for uh murders.
We have ed Gaines, skin Ottomans Dahmer obvious choice.

Speaker 9 (01:11:49):
Skin Ottoman, Yeah, and he made actual automan Well, I
have the whole collection.

Speaker 8 (01:11:54):
He made a nipple belt. Yeah, he made a nipple belt.
I might have taken some creative as we all know,
Stephen Avery. So this is this is another story.

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
This is about the.

Speaker 8 (01:12:05):
North Side strangler. Who is actually this is some more
good detective work. So in October tenth and eleventh, nineteen
eighty six, two sex workers, Deborah Harris Tanya Miller, were
both strangled one day apart.

Speaker 5 (01:12:19):
Both bodies found in vacant apartments.

Speaker 8 (01:12:21):
Since they were both strangled sex workers found in empty
apartments day apart, cops thought there might be a link.

Speaker 5 (01:12:31):
So what shows you? They're pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
They're surprising, Yeah, say they're not stupid.

Speaker 8 (01:12:38):
However, this was before they were collecting DNA or DNA
was shaky, so the murders went unsolved. So then June twentieth,
nineteen eighty seven, Joyce and Mims was found strangled in
a vacant apartment by some construction workers in Milwaukee's North Side.
She was also believed to be a sex worker, had
no criminal record.

Speaker 5 (01:12:55):
But George mule Jones, mule Jones, George mule.

Speaker 8 (01:13:01):
Jones, you mean George the Mule George the mule Jones.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
Now is this the nickname? Does he have a big hog?

Speaker 8 (01:13:08):
Is he?

Speaker 5 (01:13:09):
Well?

Speaker 8 (01:13:10):
Is this a family name? I have a theory, but
we'll get there. Okay, uh you probably know you know him?

Speaker 6 (01:13:17):
Okay, yes, we went to high school together.

Speaker 8 (01:13:19):
Yeah, he said the probably George mule Jones. Yeah, great,
rides in on a horse.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
He's my favorite stand ups.

Speaker 8 (01:13:27):
Uh so they they charged George mule Jones uh with
the murder because he was friends with Mims from Cleveland
and they were still friends with Mimes and his girlfriend,
who was simply known as sugar Baby.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Oh why not Mims? That's the coolest fun.

Speaker 5 (01:13:43):
Is pretty good.

Speaker 8 (01:13:44):
Well, well they're different, Mims was killed. Okay, no, they
are the same, and she should have been called sugar baby.

Speaker 5 (01:13:49):
I shouldn't agree more.

Speaker 8 (01:13:50):
Georgia uh so, uh Jones had a criminal record because
he was actually convicted of murder in Mississippi.

Speaker 5 (01:13:57):
That doesn't mean anything. Oh, you aren't lying.

Speaker 8 (01:14:00):
He stabbed a woman and was sentenced to five years
with a year of stab.

Speaker 5 (01:14:05):
I think, yeah to your first.

Speaker 9 (01:14:07):
Yeah, year of stab, I think is like your first
murder should be like three Yeah, you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (01:14:12):
And if you do it again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Well, then all right, you're seriously gonna piss Georgia off,
and then it's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
No fucking ugly up here. So I'm gonna cry like
this table. It'll be fine. I mean, it's fine.

Speaker 5 (01:14:22):
Let me get my beers in my iPad. Okay.

Speaker 8 (01:14:26):
Uh so uh the woman that he killed was there,
was named Shamika Carter. She was killed because she made
fun of George muhl Jones' inability to perform sexually.

Speaker 5 (01:14:36):
How about that?

Speaker 9 (01:14:37):
That happens a lot with murderers, right, isn't that one
of their things, like they can't get it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:41):
Up and then they killed. That's yeah, well I don't
do it.

Speaker 9 (01:14:45):
If I can't get it up, I just I just
walk away. Yeah, could you tell your friends shamefully?

Speaker 5 (01:14:52):
I'm like, I'm gonna watch Law and Order. Yeah, as
long as murders involved in some way.

Speaker 8 (01:14:58):
Yeah, I'm gonna watch a murder he committed instead of
committing my.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Own, and then I'll be back and then I'll be back.

Speaker 8 (01:15:04):
With ideas I might cut your bodocks and a new soundtrack.

Speaker 5 (01:15:10):
Uh okay. So yeah, so he went down to that killing.

Speaker 8 (01:15:13):
So then police thought, but but there's still killings going on. Oh,
and they in his apartment. They found a black ski
mask and nine women's shoes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
And I have that too in my house though.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
Wait, nine women's shoe and a ski mask. Yeah, that's
actually all I have.

Speaker 6 (01:15:26):
In my house.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
Nine is a weird number.

Speaker 9 (01:15:29):
It's a weird Yeah, there's unless there was a lady
with just one leg, not in my shoes.

Speaker 6 (01:15:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:15:37):
So so he so he goes down for these murders.
He goes down for this murder in particular day. Yes,
this one, right, But there's been three murders so far.
This is the third murder. Okay, Yes, there's more to come.

Speaker 6 (01:15:49):
Oh yeah, we see your papers in your hand.

Speaker 5 (01:15:51):
Okay, I'm moving fast. In my story, the bad guy dies, okay, Dave,
we were there.

Speaker 8 (01:16:01):
So the idea of a serial killer was floated out
by Bill Vogel, who is the homicide UH unit in
Wisconsin and Milca, Wisconsin. He told the police's chief that
he thought both women that were killed the year before
were done by the same man. He entered with a
business like attitude quote to discuss the matter. And I
use the word cereal and I got reamed out, said Vogel.

Speaker 5 (01:16:20):
Get out of here. Vogel, I don't want to hear
the word ceial again talking about Cheerios season two.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
I'm totally kidding. I'm plumped the fuck. Oh set it cut.

Speaker 8 (01:16:39):
And both the doors you will all on, you will
all unremember, nonus forget it?

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Can we get the steam whatever.

Speaker 9 (01:16:47):
The gyas they're talking about flash. Okay, we're gonna knock
these people out.

Speaker 5 (01:16:51):
You're damn right. We are like the joker at Batman.

Speaker 8 (01:16:55):
Uh so, yeah, so that his chief was like, hey man,
we don't want people freaking out with the word cereal.

Speaker 9 (01:17:01):
Let's just shut up about that. And so that's the
best way to handle a smart serial. Killers're smart. Let's
act like it's not happening.

Speaker 8 (01:17:10):
Strangulations kept happening in nineteen ninety two, where Irene Smith
twenty five was found dead in nineteen thirty nineteen thirty two,
we're going back. He was a time jumper. I should
point that time had no meaning in this one. The
year was eighteen oh four. He went too, started a
new life of murdering. He did he then't killed a dinosaur,

(01:17:33):
Oh he just did.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
So.

Speaker 5 (01:17:37):
You know, basically, more people are dying more next workers,
how many more we're right now at about five. Karen D.

Speaker 8 (01:17:44):
Kilpatrick thirty two, was killed in nineteen ninety four. Irene
Smith twenty five, was also nineteen ninety four. Both women
were strangled. Both were sex workers. Police still had no
way of connecting these crimes, but there was a homicide
detective named Steve Spagnola Spignola who was set on finding
the person, and in nineteen ninety five, April twenty fourth,

(01:18:04):
Florence McCormick's body was found in a shitty basement on
Locust Street.

Speaker 5 (01:18:08):
It sounds like he's killing ladies whose names start with mick.
I don't think that tracks in my stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
You just fucking solve this case.

Speaker 5 (01:18:16):
I'm putting together the Scottish killer. Wait, he's Scottish too.
I don't know. I'm just I'm fucking thrown out theirs.
Let's put it on the board. Sure is there a board?
I'm not sure? So uh yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:18:33):
McCormick's body was found. She was tied up on a sinker.
Hair was neat, fingernails suggested no struggle. Her socks were clean,
which I'm not sure what that means, but that was
pointed out.

Speaker 5 (01:18:42):
The better socks were well like she.

Speaker 6 (01:18:43):
Wasn't walking around outside or something.

Speaker 8 (01:18:45):
I guess they make it sound like that is like
how they know she was murdered, but.

Speaker 9 (01:18:49):
Vogels over there, vuggels over there in the corner, just
smelling her socks.

Speaker 5 (01:18:54):
Ago.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
I have never worn clean socks in my That's what
I was thinking. Someone buys me the clean socks. Something's
fucking wrong.

Speaker 8 (01:19:02):
But like that means that when we die, people will
be like, it's a murder. The socks are filthy, which
is just gonna be that I was wearing.

Speaker 5 (01:19:11):
What what does it filthy sock mean? I don't know.
I look, that's for you guys. That's for you guys.
I'm merely a shepherd. By the way, didn't there's some
take home stuff? Yeah, it's under your seats, okay.

Speaker 8 (01:19:23):
So Spignola didn't think that there was It was no
sexual activity. There was no semen on the body. There
was no semen around the body, which he thought was
possible because sometimes the killer may masturbate near the body.
Her body was posed, it was bound. But they thought
there was some level of comfortability between the two because

(01:19:44):
it seemed like there was a little struggle for this.

Speaker 5 (01:19:46):
So they thought that like he was like, hey, you know,
let me bind you and we'll kill Jinki. And no,
I don't think he threw that part out there. Maybe
a tell.

Speaker 8 (01:19:56):
Nineteen ninety five, two months after the murder McCormick, Shila
Ferrier was discovered six blogs away in Titania, also a
sex worker, also in an empty apartment, this time strangled
by her own brazier, posed crack pipes, crack cleaner, pipe cleaners,
just a lot of crack.

Speaker 5 (01:20:11):
A good scene. So it's a crack house. It's an
empty apartment where crack was smoked.

Speaker 6 (01:20:15):
But pipe cleaners like for craft for.

Speaker 5 (01:20:18):
Crack, for crack, crack, not no one's doing crafts. People
are doing crack, which can lead to crafts. But I
don't believe that that was the direct implication.

Speaker 9 (01:20:27):
No, okay, yeah, so at this point there's there were
vision boards everywhere.

Speaker 5 (01:20:33):
I'm glad we could do this.

Speaker 9 (01:20:35):
At this point, there's like seven dead women, all found
in abandoned apartments and they're like strangled and they're like,
I don't see it connect.

Speaker 5 (01:20:41):
The cops are like, man, sum's going on. Huh you hungry,
get lunch? You know what?

Speaker 9 (01:20:46):
I would say this was the same killer, but uh,
the socks are different.

Speaker 5 (01:20:51):
Yeah, these sucks are filthy. Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:20:55):
Then uh, they actually finally got a DNA sample. They
didn't really know who, but in August thirtieth, nineteen ninety five,
there was the body of a sixteen year old runaway
named Jessica Paine, who was found with her her throat slit.

Speaker 5 (01:21:09):
How is she found?

Speaker 8 (01:21:10):
The two young boys went to abandoned mattress that they
normally used as a makeshift trampoline.

Speaker 5 (01:21:14):
Normal however, a normal just kids, that's just boys jumping.
Go find a match.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
To play with garbage.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
Yeah as a kid, yeah, jump on a little refuse
you scamps.

Speaker 8 (01:21:27):
But this day they weren't getting a bunch of bounce
like normal, and the reason was because Jessica Payne's body
was underneath it. As I said, this time there was
appearance of sexual activity.

Speaker 12 (01:21:39):
They boys are fine. Now, the boys are fine. Yeah,
so there was there was semen present. They had some DNA.
They still couldn't connect it to anybody, but they thought
that this might be related. A guy named Richard Gwyn
was in jail. He started implicating himself and two others.
This guy Sam hadaway chot oat Sure, they told Gwenn

(01:22:01):
told police.

Speaker 8 (01:22:02):
He was driving. He was in the car with Hadaway
aunt and Jessica Paine. He parked in front of an
abandoned residence, where they remained in his vehicle, conversing, listening
to the radio, drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana.

Speaker 5 (01:22:11):
Just fun car games, and Gwinn said.

Speaker 8 (01:22:14):
At some point Hadaway aught in Pain, exited the vehicle,
walked to an alley, and then Hadaway returned to the car,
followed by five minutes later. When Gwinn asked about Pain's whereabouts,
Hadaway said that they had to rob Pain, but her
pockets were empty, so just cut her throat. Hadaway confirmed
Gwenn's story, providing further detail about the murder and that

(01:22:35):
ot cut Pain's throat. Hadaway described a situation and when
he searched for her pockets, he found nothing, so he
pushed her down on the mattress, pulled down her pants,
pulled up her shirt, and tried to force her way in.
But Hadaway said he didn't actually see that because he
turned away, but when he turned back around, he heard
choking and gagging to see the Pain's throat was cut
and the blood was gushing out. Yes, didn't, I don't

(01:22:58):
know Okay, you just reacted like a human. I get it,
fucking as you should. Just bombing, you know, just bumming
bomb again.

Speaker 5 (01:23:06):
My guide died.

Speaker 8 (01:23:08):
But so nineteen ninety five, the police found a search
ONRM for outs home. They found two box cutters and
a knife among his possession. That was really all the
evidence that they had, but Ott was sentenced to life
in prison, with parole available in fifty years. The main
evidence in the trial was the two box cutters.

Speaker 5 (01:23:25):
The police said, but that sounds nothing like the other ones. Weird, right,
So DNA evidence started being used in nineteen ninety.

Speaker 8 (01:23:36):
Wisconsin fully came around to twenty fifteen to really collecting
DNA from every sorry what nineteen nineties where most places
started collecting a data base of violent criminals.

Speaker 5 (01:23:46):
Wisconsin's finished in twenty fifteen. So just just a mere
twenty five years, Yes, just a mere difference. Is that
an issue for you, Yeah, it's for a lot of us. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:24:00):
So now the police felt that they had DNA that
they had found at that scene, So they now had
DNA from a number of women. The DNA from the
women in nineteen nineteen eighty six, two in ninety five,
one in ninety seven and the latest. There were no
more murders until April twenty seventh, two thousand and seven, Okay,
when Quithrine Stokes, twenty eight, was found strangled by city

(01:24:20):
inspectors after they were going to inspect a vacant, boarded
up residence. They found DNA at this scene, and now
police had the DNA from the two women in eighty six,
ninety seven, all that two thousand and seven, and it
all matched to one person, but the police couldn't figure
out who it was since.

Speaker 5 (01:24:35):
The DNA matched nothing in their database.

Speaker 8 (01:24:37):
Is they knew they were dealing someone that had never
been convicted of a violent crime before, which is curious.
So two detectives of the Milwaukee Department Homicide Unit re
examined the DNA linked to the suspect and they believed
they found him.

Speaker 5 (01:24:49):
So on September seventh, two thousand and nine, Walter E.

Speaker 8 (01:24:52):
Ellis of Milwaukee was arrested at noon at a hotel
by a swarm of police officers. Ellis was booked on
a temporary felony warrant was being questioned by the p
They took a DNA sample from his place off his toothbrush,
and they had a match.

Speaker 5 (01:25:04):
He was matched.

Speaker 8 (01:25:06):
He was even matched for the two murders that men
were already serving sentences for. Ooo, suck awkward. Here's what's
crazy awkward.

Speaker 5 (01:25:14):
Not good. They should have had his DNA because it wasn't.

Speaker 8 (01:25:17):
From a lack of opportunities, he was convicted of a
shitload of crimes nineteen seventy eight felony burgery, seventy nine
drug charges eighty robbery eighty one, controlled substance eighty one
again possession went intent to distribute eighty five, soliciting and
beating up two sex workers eighty seven, retail theft ninety two,
released for good behavior, ninety two, back in for violating
that good behavior, ninety four, stabbing his girlfriend with a

(01:25:38):
screwdriver not the drink, ninety five, battery for choking his girlfriend,
ninety seven, resisting arrest, ninety eight, reckless industy So he
had a track.

Speaker 5 (01:25:47):
And hold on when when they've gotten any DNA?

Speaker 8 (01:25:49):
Well, because they collected They still collected DNA, they just
didn't collect it.

Speaker 5 (01:25:53):
From every violent criminal. Are you having fun with me?

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
Uh?

Speaker 8 (01:26:00):
The DNA was never asked for, but in two thousand
and one police discovered that they actually had gotten his DNA,
or at least they had at one point there was
an issue his DNA matched nothing in their system, and
they know that.

Speaker 5 (01:26:13):
One of two things happened.

Speaker 8 (01:26:14):
A Ellis convinced his cellmate to submit the DNA for him,
come on, or b it was lost in transfer to
the Oshkosh police department, who said they never received it.

Speaker 6 (01:26:24):
Wait a second, is Oshkosh where Stephen Avery?

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
Yep? Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:26:29):
Is that also where they make the overalls? Yes, it's
famous for two things now, which is cool. Okay, what
I'm not sure?

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
Which is the same police department?

Speaker 5 (01:26:40):
This is the same fucking police Well, it's the same.
It's like, yeah, the same region. Very shut the fuck. Yeah,
they share a Walmart. It's real. Fuck. So had they
done this in the nineties like me, had.

Speaker 8 (01:26:54):
They would have stocked Yeah, they would have stopped five
to seven murders. Uh, they would have stopped one if
they'd on it in two thousand and one, when it
was totally expected of them. So in two thousand and eight,
an appeals court overturned Ott's conviction. The guy who they
said cut the mattress murderer. They had a new trial
with new DNA evidence. Two thousand and nine, they announced
it would not seek a new trial.

Speaker 5 (01:27:14):
Ott was freed.

Speaker 8 (01:27:15):
He served thirteen years in prison for a murder he
didn't commit. George mule Jones died in prison April thirtieth,
twenty twelve. But it is not too sad because he
was also a previous murderer. He just didn't do the
one we talked about.

Speaker 5 (01:27:28):
Ellis was found.

Speaker 6 (01:27:30):
Okay, good, good, good, Am I doing good?

Speaker 5 (01:27:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (01:27:33):
Yeah, Ellis was found guilty of seven murders in total,
but he was thought to have been guilty of nine.
He was since the seven life sentences in twenty eleven.
And here's the fucker. He died in twenty thirteen, so
he served two years. These murders went from nineteen eighty
six to two thousand and seven, and he was in
for less than two How old was he was like

(01:27:54):
in his fifties?

Speaker 9 (01:27:55):
Tell me he died painfully, like he got shocked hospital.

Speaker 5 (01:27:58):
He was in a hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
Not that though, even if they had had his DNA
and put it through they would have putting it through
codis and actually checking the DNA as we know that
like from the rape kits that are not tested. That
doesn't mean he would have been caught. It's like, oh,
they should have. If they had tested it and had
his DNA, everything would have been fine. Like that's not
the fucking case. So it's like, oh, we could, but

(01:28:20):
they could have you know, started testing. Well, yeah, who
knows that crazy five.

Speaker 5 (01:28:26):
Years he was also known as a fucking lunatic. Like
they everyone's like this, how about this guy, Everyone's like
he's crazy. He lives like he lives right around every
one of these words.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
Let's not all assume that that these systems that they
have in place to catch people are like the end
all be all, Like it takes a lot more than that,
and so like, it doesn't mean that wouldn't like these
seven women wouldn't have been killed, right you.

Speaker 10 (01:28:45):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Yes, sorry, that'd be a bummer.

Speaker 5 (01:28:48):
But it's.

Speaker 8 (01:28:51):
Between nineteen eighty six and two thousand and seven, forty
two prostitutes were killed in Milwaukee.

Speaker 5 (01:28:56):
Only thirty one percent of those cases have been solved.
And they're great there shit again, mine wrapped up super nice.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
I mean, well, first of all, it's always hard to
go last. Yeah, it's always hard to go last. But
then also that was fucking rough. Yeah no, yes, great.

Speaker 5 (01:29:17):
Job, Yes, trangler. That's fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
How do you feel about it?

Speaker 5 (01:29:24):
Terrible?

Speaker 8 (01:29:25):
I really am like so shocked at how little they
give a fuck when you really find out how it's
it's like politics, but when you find out that they're
really just worried about what people think over actually doing good,
you're like, we're just fun.

Speaker 9 (01:29:38):
Well, that's something we run across from the dop all
the time. How much the FBI fucks up? Can I
can I end with a Can I end with something?
Just a personal story please? So my uncle I lived
in California. I grew up in Marine County, a little bit,
a little bit better, a little bit better than Pedlima
but I don't know if that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
But my uncle was a huge drug dealer.

Speaker 6 (01:30:02):
That's way better than Pedalomia and.

Speaker 9 (01:30:03):
It's and at one point he got the law was
like getting down on him. So he decided to move
to Florida to get out of California because it was
the local cops.

Speaker 5 (01:30:14):
And uh, and I went and we went to this
big going away party.

Speaker 9 (01:30:18):
He knew opened up a suitcase that was full of
just fucking cash and I was like twelve, and I
was like, that's cool, and uh, and then he left,
and uh, and then all of his friends, the people
that I had met at parties at his house, about
ten of them shut up in trunks.

Speaker 5 (01:30:35):
All around Marin County.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Trunks, one after the other, like chilling, and like.

Speaker 9 (01:30:40):
John's dead in the trunk, parts dead in a trunk.
He's dead in the trunk. Yet all of his friends
got killed.

Speaker 6 (01:30:47):
And you're saying that's the FBI. Yes, that's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
It wasn't the gang drug dealer members that they were
hanging out with. It couldn't have been them or natural causes.

Speaker 5 (01:30:57):
And lord, there's theories, sir, you're.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
Going to take a nap in a trunk.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
That's right, it's suicide by suffocation.

Speaker 5 (01:31:06):
Yeah, I forgot to mention that they all that they
lived in trunks. Oh wow, that's a huge detail.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
Hey, here's some good news. No updates from either of
those stories. You don't ever have to talk about them again.

Speaker 6 (01:31:21):
Neither do Dave. Neither does Dave, neither does Goad.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
And we're not going to make this episode any longer
than it already is, because you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
Know, we've learned our lessons. Hey listen, hey, force too many.
So now we're going to do the retitling part. This
episode was originally called Live at the Orpheum, but.

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
If we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it.
That's my Madonna, That's my Madonna. That's my argument. That's
my Madonna.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
She said fuck on CNN, and she was when I
saw her. I wasn't in the streets that day. I
was at home crying and yeah, exhausted, but so thrilled
to see what I was seeing. And then at the
pinnacle of all of it, there's Madonna.

Speaker 3 (01:31:57):
On CNN being like, fuck this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:31:59):
Yeah, amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
Oh there's also the title also Vintage, which was when
Georgia was introducing her story she said, mine is also
vintage after the La Ripper.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
And then I just did it again on the rewind episode.
So I have no new jokes, just keep reusing them. Listen,
And then it could also be called A ten is Talking.

Speaker 5 (01:32:21):
I love that. That was a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
All you guys better listen when A ten is talking.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
That was my favorite son with Ruth Bader Ginsburg's picture.
But it's a rip off from a thirty rock joke.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Okay, oh that's right. Yeah, and we don't have to
say goodbye. We've realized because we already say goodbye in
the episode, so we're gonna let those girls from twenty
seventeen rightfully say their own goodbyes.

Speaker 10 (01:32:43):
So thanks for listening. Rewind that's right, you guys, will
you please help us? Thank Dave, Anthony Ancher Reynolds.

Speaker 6 (01:32:56):
We appreciate it so much.

Speaker 1 (01:32:58):
Thank you all for coming here.

Speaker 6 (01:33:00):
This has been an amazing night.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
Hey you guys, stay sexy.

Speaker 4 (01:33:05):
I don't be so hard.

Speaker 5 (01:33:07):
Don't get bine

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 53: Live at The Orpheum