Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 58: Some Quiet Sunday - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Nay, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is that Wednesday show where we recap our old
episodes with all new commentary of dates and insights.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
So today we're recapping episode fifty eight, which we named
Some Quiet Sunday.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
This episode came out on March second, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Let's get into it and listen to the intro.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome to my Favorite murder.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Hi, welcome to my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello, Welcome to my favorite murder. Hello, Hello, Hello, I.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Don't learn how to start this thing someday.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
What was wrong with that creepy, unnatural speaking voice. It
was too light. It was kind of like when someone
says they'll scratch your back, but then they just they
kind of just lightly drag their hand across her back.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
What is worse than that, you know, it's worse than
that is when those blankets that when you're heels, I
got your heels a little dry and it rum like
rubs across those like wooly blankets or like gets caught
on a cuticle like you're.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
A fucking goat, Like like you're so not uh, you're
so disgusting that like blankets are like.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Long it's been since you've fucking taken care of yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hey, miss Havisham, how why don't you fucking soak these feet?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
That you know, it's you know, it's worse. What uh
when a guy puts his head on your shoulder?

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah? Well, oh, why are you serious?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Don't you?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Isn't that the grossest thing of all time?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I don't understand that one.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I just hate it. Wow, I really thought you were
gonna be with me on that one.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
But I don't know. I don't get it.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's like to be cute or something where it's like,
can you not be precious? Like a guy doing that
is like, well, you because.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
You also like a masculine dude who takes care of you.
And a guy who fucking puts his head on your
stupid shoulder.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Is like, I mean, it's just a little like they
might as well also kick their outside leg up when
they kiss you and like pull their skirt out a
little bit. What the hell?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm fine with that, But you know, it's even grosser
when you don't have a garbage disposal you have to
take the food out of the fucking the wet food
out of the drain of the sink.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
I don't know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
That's how it feels to be abandoned. No, it just
made me like, wait, did you have to do that
by hand and then thrown in the garbage? Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:53):
And it makes me sick to my stomach.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
How old is the food days? Weeks?

Speaker 1 (02:58):
No, it's just like you just died the dishes. Okay, man,
you don't food from your mouth.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
You're not a soaker though, because I'll go ahead and
I'll soak some dishes for a good two weeks. Do
you ever do that where you're like, I'm cleaning them
by letting them sit in the sink with soapy water
in them.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, I'll put some I'll put some cold water in
a bowl of like yogurt and that's never gonna away,
or like cereal, and it's like it's still going to
get stuck to the bowl every time.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Like like the thing that we would yell in my
house is put water in it. It's like nobody, nobody
knows we'd live in that house. I lived there for
sixteen years and the dishwasher, the dishwasher never worked a
single day that they lived there where in the not
the other apart in the house I grew up in.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, So you always had to do
everything by hand.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
And so when people would almost willfully ignorantly leave a
bowl of h cereal in the sink, yeah, knowing full
well it was just going to then be cemented onto
the side of the right.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
And you'd get yelled at and have to do it. Yeah,
and then you'd have to take your fucking hand and
take all the wet food out.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Wait, you have a garb disposal now doing?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Now I do? Yeah, Like that's yeah, now I do.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Not You must run that thing all day long, love
it just for no reason, all day just creating kind
of a nice white noise in the background.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Let's go comforting.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
You know what I hate, tell me is when you're
like taking a shower and you're just like, oh, it's
so great to get clean, and you look down there's
like straight up black mold in your shower or something
like where you the thing of Like, you don't notice
how filthy you are until you look at one thing,
and then you're like, oh my god, yeah that's not
like grout, that's not black grouse.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
The groud is white.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
If someone else saw this who was a clean person, yes,
well right now in my shower, I hope you didn't
see that when you just peede, is that like there's
leg shavings everywhere? Because I just now, like, this is
the first time I've had a white shower, yeap, because
our last one was like gray and pink, like vintage
gray and pink for sure, and you can't see that shit.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
I'm gray.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh but now it's all white.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Now you have to look at your own body leg
shavings offerings.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
I wonder if Vince notices this too, I.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Mean, he must be into it. My sister when she
came down, because she is a super clean type a
type person and I am not. My sister got crazy
bummed because the I have that the drain in my bathtub.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Where your hair gets caught in it.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
It gets caught. There's no like secondary screen I being
able to find because it's just there isn't one, so
it's always backing up. And my sister was so bummed
at the amount of water because it was like.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
No, I got it.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, And now I was just standing, you're right, that
is gross, but I've never noticed it's just how it is.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Like standing water standing. I don't like that either, well
because then it is gross. It's gross. And then the
leg shavings are like getting attached to your ankles, that's right.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
And also they stay when the rest of it drains
because it drains so slow. Oh yeah, then it creates
its own kind of like it looks like a map,
like a topological map of a river basin.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Look at yourself, look at you can I bring this
back around?

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (06:12):
However, it does make your feet nice and soft on
they're soaking in the water there, it sure does, and
then they won't rub on a blanket and.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Like shit, it's great, beast, great, greatways.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
That's been my favorite murder. Imagine someone who's listening for
the first time, they're like.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
What the They're just like, I saw this. I came
in here for decapitated head. This was on a murder list,
and it certainly is no murder.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
This is my favorite murder.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Really quick.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
One time, my dad said to me, he came down
to visit me, and then my like the thing broke
in my toilet hand to go in and fix the
stopper or whatever it is. And while we were standing
in there, he goes, hey, why don't you spend some
quiet sunday cleaning behind this toilet? And the level of
a total disgust that he said it with. I think

(07:06):
of it every time I'm in the bathroom, Barb.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
That is an extra level of con of being condescending.
You can say, hey, you should clean the back of
your toilet.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Oh no, it always has to be like a one
man show in our family. Hey, what do you take
a quiet spend some quiet sunday, wow, cleaning behind this toilet.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
I don't know, Dad, because I'm busy going to therapy
to get over you, or maybe because I just party.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, I'm because if I like love, I love to
be outside where the toilet isn't yeh, friends, I don't
like the toilet as much as you do.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
To add, what am I saying that?

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Because it's not as because you know it's important.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
To me Dad, living my life, living my life, and
if that means having a filthy toilet, so be it.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
So be it. You know his problem that isn't mine mine.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Welcome to My Favorite Murder. It's a murder podcast for
murder Murder of the Sionado Murder. People are so much murder.
Is it crime? God that we're all about it justice. Oh,
that's us totally America America.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Uh, that's Karen Kilgarreff.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
That's Georgia hard start.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Hi.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
We're here to host this show and sometimes we talk
about personal stuff.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
We do totally. I don't know if you was not
even personal. That was just like every day. I met
a guide today who works in a morgue. He's gonna
work in a morgue and is going to morgue person school. Yes,
we went to lunch today and I got so excited.
I had this incredible therapy appointment that like made life sunnier.

(08:40):
Then I go to this to the restaurant that we're
going to meet it. It's Jone's on Third and it's
not like we go there every day. It doesn't great
everybody goes there. It's a great meals to eat in
Studio City.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well, the guy is.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Ringing me up for my coffee, was like, how's your
day going? And I'm like good, thanks, how's yours? And
he's like great, I had a job interview. I'm like,
oh Jesus fucking guy's talking to me now. I'm like, oh,
you being pulled like oh what was it for? And
then he was like, oh, it's the La County Morgue
and I was like, what, what the fuck do you.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Think he knew?

Speaker 2 (09:08):
No, Oh, I love that so much.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
He just told like he didn't know how I would react,
and of course I grab him by the arm.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Did you really across the counter? Oh? My god? Tell
me everything.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
And he was like, oh, you know, Blobby Blood, I'm
going to school to be a mortuary momortician something like that.
And exactly, I was like, that's amazing. You're in the right.
LA is going to be incredible, and he's like, I
know the murder well, I said, I said, this is
LA's going to be a great place to do that.
He said, I know.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
The murder count just keeps going up.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
That's right. She said that. And then I turn around
and this girl came up to me and was like, Hi,
I really like the podcast. This is weird. My grandfather
is a serial killer. No.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Literally moments later, okay, that's when I walked in. Yeah, okay,
So I have the bad habit of my sunglasses are
also a prescription, so when I come in from outside
and my sunglasses are always on my head, which means
I can't see.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
I always forget that you can't see anything.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, I can't see well, like I can't see past
like a couple feet in front of you, so like,
and it helps me because walking into a place like
that John's on Third is very like CNB seen type
of place, and I always get real insecure whatever. So
I'm like, oh, good, better that I don't have my
glasses on except for reading menus and seeing where George
is sitting and all the things that actually involved meeting

(10:30):
someone from I.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Saw you, but I was in the middle of this
discussion with this girl Anna.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
But also I didn't realize, like I wouldn't. I thought
you'd be seeing by yourself. So when I when I
when this kind of one blurry figure waved an arm,
I was like, what the hell is going on that
I have to go over here now? And I walk
up and Georgia is in full on like kind of
don't interrupt us conversation.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
No, what I was saying is, don't tell Karen. Don't
tell Karen. Don't tell Karen. When you don't say that, Karen, Yeah,
so wait, you're gonna tell me right now. Yeah, he
was a fucking serial killer. He's in prison. He was
like the sheriff in Bakersfield and he was killing sex workers. No,
she didn't know till she was older, and then she
saw an episode of like Forensic Files and was like,
that's my grandfather. Like she was news in prison but

(11:14):
didn't know what the deal was hold on.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
I know, was that in like the eighties or nineties.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
She was like eleven, I guess, and she looked in
her early twenties.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
Yeah, she was pretty young.

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Long.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, that is so intense.

Speaker 5 (11:25):
I know.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
So I was like this is Anna bye by Anna. Yeah,
because I can't keep a secret. I'm like not good
at that. So I didn't want to be.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Like, that's so good.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
My name is nice goats on Twitter.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Nice Goats.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
His name is David Keith Rogers. He's and she said
her grandmother wrote him a letter every single day, called
him every Sunday, despite the fact that he was a
serial killer.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Denial, denial. That's some serious denial. She's like, that's not
the man I married. No, Well, talk about living in
double life. He's he's the sheriff and he's that is
a nightmare. That's that's like, that's this true detective. Yeah,
season all of them never because it will never happen.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Can I Can I say one other thing, yes that
I love.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
I'm listening to another new podcast that I finished within
a couple days as I do, called in the Dark
The Jacob Weaterling One.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Oh no, I haven't, I haven't heard it.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well I didn't. I was like, Jacob Butterling, everyone knows
what happened with him as a kidho got kidnapped, you
know in Minnesota and they ate in eighties whatever, and
so I was like, I'll just listen to an episode.
It is fucking enthralling. It is one of the best
fucking investigative journalists dick podcast to be things I've ever
listened to.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
It, I gotta listen to it.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Incredible, And it's not about Jacob Wedterling. It's about everything
that went wrong in It's like it is a fucking
hard look at law enforcement. Wow, and how they mishandled
the entire fucking case and how a few stranger danger
and the sex offender registries and is that the right
thing to do? And like it's and then they just
solve the case like a week before they were going

(13:09):
to put the podcast out. WHOA I like Tie all
this shit into it.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Oh, I got to listen to that.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Madeleine Baron is the host.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
It's all these fucking badass women who are hosting these
incredible investigative journalism.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
So in the dark it's called in the Dark. In
the Dark.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Ugh, fucking I could not stop listening to it. Oh,
I love that.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I actually just thought of this too, because I just
watched of if nobody, if you're not watching Vanity Fair Confidential,
which is a series on a place, what watch part
do you not know? I'm just trying to think of
where it is. But it might be investigation, discovery or something.
It doesn't matter, you can just put it in, but

(13:50):
it's they have. They basically go over stories that have
been in Vanity Fair, which is a tough magazine that's
exsted for like seventy plus years. Maybe it does great art,
great investigative journalism. Yeah, And the one that I watched
yesterday was about this couple, which which was basically about
satanic panic and that mird thing that happened in the

(14:12):
eighties where all of a sudden it was like at
the Martin Preschool preschool case. And then there was this
other one that happened to these people in Austin, Texas
and they just got out of jail and they still
haven't been exonerated. They're just they were just released of
like that. It's basically what you were just talking about.
Where back then when they knew nothing about how leading,

(14:34):
how how much you could screw up an interview with
a four year old or a three year old, how
easy it is to get that child to say exactly
what you want them to say totally. And that's how
all those things exploded. That's why it happened all at
the same time.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's amazing that that shit, that is what fucking happens
in this podcast, and it is incredible how it's so terrifying,
Like I have to listen to a positive book now
because I'm so fucked up over it. Yeah, Oh, I
gotta listen to that and Vanity Fair Confidential. What's cool
is that they take those articles and they interview like
the main narrator, interviewer guy is the person is the

(15:09):
person who wrote that article. Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
And then other than the police that were there and
the other family members and stuff, they've been the last
couple that I've watched have been so good.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
It's just like it's a really well done series.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
I've watched it in a while. I'm gonna check it out.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Cool. Also, did you say that think someone tweeted at
us or it was somewhere like I think it was
on our Facebook about the windshield wiper shirt?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yes, Trick, Yes that do you think that's true? Probably?
I mean it could have like its sources in some
once true thing. But I like the idea that people
spread that around me too, because I think it's that
thing of just like eyes open, eyes open, and don't like.
So basically what it was is there is a picture

(15:56):
I think it was either on Instagram or Twitter or whatever,
but it's like a girl there's a shirt wrapped around
her windshield wiper, and then when she gets out to
take it off, there's people there that are like to
grab her because she's out of her.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Car, right they get you get in your car at night,
you're being very careful in this built in the structure,
and then oh shit, there's something on my windshield. I
better get out and take it off. Yeah, and then
that's like that's when your guard is down.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, So it's just the idea and that thing spread
like wildfire. Yeah, I saw that.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
In a couple different places.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Really, Yeah, I was like, this sounds this sounds like
you know, and his hook was in the back of
was in the car or the back door, but it is.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, it is a.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Good kind of reminder to pay attention.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yes, it only takes one thing like that. And also
have to think if you're like, you should think of
your car as like the safe zone, so like, once
you're in there and you've locked that door, you're good
to go. So if you can drive with a shirt
on your winchel we get the fuck out of then.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's what the girl said she did, is she fucking
knew something was wrong. She saw a car idling supposedly,
you know, and then so she fucking drove away and
when she was alone, and say if she fucking got
out and pulled it hing off, she's like, it didn't
make sense that it was wrapped around my windshield.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Right, Yeah, it doesn't because it's not like, oh, it
dropped from you know it blue onto my windshield.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Whatever, it's if it's wrapped.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
She was basically taking her context clues and going this
is a red flag situation.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Betcha, this fictitious character is a murderina, but she is.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
What else?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
I mean, what do we do we have anything to
report back from? And I would just say this because
we haven't recorded since our tour.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Right last episode was our where were We? Our Oakland Show.
The last episode we put on this podcast was the
Oakland Show.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
This podcast, this one right now was Live Oakland. After
Live Oakland, we met a bunch of great people, and
the first person we met was a girl who made
us some amazing stuff. I don't have her card or anything,
but did you see in that bag? And I'm not
sure if you went through it? So I got a
tote bag that said my dogs are fiercely private.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Oh, and she got me a bag that had a
fucking adorable Siamese cat on it. Yes, but I'm totally
using all the time now yep.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
And also I think handmade.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I don't know if she bought them or she designed
them herself, but I feel like she made them.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
The Barb notebook. Did you get a Barb notebook?

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Yes, I think that's her drawing.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
That is amazing.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
So we just want we had a fun conversation with you.
She was very excited, and we just wanted to say
it was just as fun for us to meet you
as it was for you to meet us, because she
was she was She was very sweet and very excited.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Everyone's been more so lucky.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yes, we get lots of nice presents and it's funny.
And also in Oakland, most of my family was there.
My cousin Stevie, who's basically like my older brother who
beat me up my whole childhood and then became a
super cool friend and now is basically like my sister
and my sister's family and his family like do everything together,

(19:16):
and it's really awesome because that's the way we all
grew up together. It's like the next generation. I heard
the rumor that he was crying during our show because
he was so proud and like blown away. Like basically
all of my family was like, Oh, we had no idea, Yeah,
this is what you were doing. That's amazing. Yeah, so
it was super fun.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, Marty fucking heart Stark is going to be at
our Beacon, our New York Beacon show this fucking weekend,
and I have no idea how he's going to react.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Please New York help us and press Marty heart Stark.
He needs to understand that his daughter has done a
good job.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
You'll know him by the fact that he's the only
grown man alone there.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
That's not true, Amir and Seattle. Remember the guy that
made us the macarone? Oh yeah, he like had taken
Steve and he had taken a cooking class. He had
made macarons that had they were pink with red blood
spatter on them, put them in a tupperware and brought
them to the show.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, and we knew they weren't poisonous because a girl
in line behind us him had eaten them and she
was like they were great. And you're like, how do
you feel? You feel like? Okay, yeah, come fine, you're
like our tester. I love macaroons and I got ted
Bundy cookies. Oh my god, oh shit, wow, I just
said the word Jesus. Did you see that.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Elvis just came out of his little cat house. Okay,
because I said the word the cookie.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
He's gonna have to get one early.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
He is a monster.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
He's We've made a monster. Sodhouse Bakery in Seattle are
the ones that made us? I tweeted those.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, they're on my favorite murder Instagram.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Unbelievable Ted Bundy, and I would just like to make
point out the fact that it turns into a thing
where it looks like, oh, we love Ted Bundy. In
no way. It's like, it's the story we're telling, and
it's I'm not saying to you, I'm just saying in general, Okay,
when on the podcast people are like, it sounds like
we're cheering.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
It's not about held buddy.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's the fascination of the story.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
And yeah, and the crime and the the fact that
that exists.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
And the icing and the fucking that was an amazing
cook It.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Was like a brown sugar cookie.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
It was crazy beautiful art and the shape of.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Washing Washington, probably because we were in Seattle, it was
in shape of Washington.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
We are the best people. We are at the book.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Can I talk about how I took a bite out
of it to take a photo and like, like it
seem obvious that it was a cookie, And then I said, uh,
look I took a bite out of crime. And then
I fucking laughed my ass off of my own fucking
stupid joke.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
God, it gets lonely in that dressing room. It's quiet.
We don't have groupies, and that it's the place where
I put on a record, and it was some lame
eighties not lame, there were some good songs on it,
but there was an eighties compilation and a stick song
came on and it was dead silent. Me and Georgia
like looking down at our murders or whatever, like getting ready,

(22:14):
and then she goes, oh my.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
God, what is this. She's not even a good singer.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
And I am still laughing about that, very enjoyable. I
didn't know six, You look like it's your turn to
go first, is it? I don't know you were. You
looked like you were ready, And I was like, oh,
she knows well.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
And I'm interpreting from that you would like me to
go for.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I don't want to fuck it up. I bet Stephen
knows well. We fucked it up going live. Oh Steven,
do you know.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
No?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Did you see him pick up his finger like he
was trying to shush us?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
He was no, I think it was remember and I
and you brought the microphone up so perfectly like I'm
about to tell you well.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Also, it was like, does it count from the Oakland
episode or do you count the other live episodes in
terms of who goes, Oh, then it's me because I
think Oakland, Oakland, so it is me.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Okay, all right, whatever, Okay, we're back, and we have
the reason why we name the episode Some Quiet Sunday,
and it's just classic home Jim.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
I have to say, he's vicious. He's a vicious, vicious man.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
In many ways, it's a cutting remark, why don't you
spend some quiet Sunday cleaning behind your toilet?

Speaker 2 (23:27):
I mean, look, we were all in the bathroom together
and it was filthy, it was gross, And he's basically
just saying, have some goddamn self that.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, but the way he's saying it is like you
have the time and you still live like this. It's
not like you are the busiest person.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's like it's an accusation while it's a suggestions.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, it's like it's patriarchy in action. I'm fucking sick
of it.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I'll use your toothbrush, dad, how about that.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
It's also the kind of thing where like I was
raised with a level that level of sarcasm. You know,
people love to say like I'm fluent in sarcasm in
their bios or whatever, and it's like I was raised
with such a vicious level of sarcasm where it's like
he would have said something like that when I was
seven years old. That's just the interaction level of home
gym and his family kindness. Yeah, and also kind of like, hey,

(24:21):
the bathroom isn't the cleanest, but behind this toilet is
a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Right, how about you say their life together, seven year
old Karen and fucking do something about it.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
And it's interesting because it is seven year old Karen
that is holding back fifty five year old cat. And
it's true so ironic that way.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
They're the same person.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
It's so annoying that thinking takes over because.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
It's who you are still are, right, Let's get it,
I know deep down.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Oh, we talked a little bit about the windshield wiper trick,
which is basically when this like the human trafficking panic
began online on social media. I just think that's kind
of an interesting thing to look back on where it's like, yeah,
remember that, where it's like if you have this on
your windshield wiper. But then it's like there's tons of

(25:06):
other examples that over the years we've all seen and
reacted to, and then it's like after a while, it's
like it's a bigger problem if only they gave.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
You that same. Well also, but notes or flowers, I've
heard too. You write notes and flowers in your windshield.
Get you to stop, get out of especially flowers, get
out of your car, you know, stand in a vulnerable place.
It just it does make sense to not do.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
That, right, So I mean, don't do it anyway. Don't
accept flowers, even if someone's just handing them to you.
Kindly slap them out of their hand.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
If they want you to listen to their their DJ mixtape,
don't do it.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
No no, no, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Don't buy or borrow their DJ mixtape.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, that is abuse.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
All right, let's get straight into it, shall we.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Sure you're first?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Let's listen to Karen's story about the ericson Twins.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Oh yes, yeah, well this is now. I'm afraid because
I'm ninety nine percent positive you haven't done this murder.
But truly, as I was printing it up and leaving
my house, I was like, this, it's so familiar, and

(26:17):
I know that I've done research on it before, thinking
I would do it before.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Well, I've had to think about looking up murders before
being like, have I done it before? Not just you? Okay,
So I think we're so you won't be mad if
this is a repeat, only if you do it better
than I did.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Well, I'm pretty sure you didn't. But I know we've
talked about it.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Okay, I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
And the reason that I wanted to do it is
because I mentioned it the last the last just the
biggest way sorry, like in your face.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
No problem.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, the last uh. I think the last studio recording
that we did when I talked about the Pepha Sisters,
the French Maid's killed apartment, this podcasting studio. So it's
another case of fallia do which is the shared psychosis,
and it's the story of Ursula and Sabina Ericksson.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Have not done it. We talked about it, Yes, fucking
and excited about this.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Okay, good, all right, but a huge goddamn relief because
I was truly like I was like, I'm printing it.
I don't this is what I've done, Like I can't
go back from here.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
That's like my trigger. And then I'm like this is over.
I can't believe you don't remember I was.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I cried that episode.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, it meant a lot to me too anyway.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
All right, Okay, so.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
In that sorry if you didn't hear.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
That episode, so uh a follia do is is uh
In French, it translates as the madness of two and
it's a form of shared psychosis between two people who
are extremely close. The papast sisters were an older and
younger sister. It is rumored that they were having a
sexual relationship, but they did work for a rumor to

(28:12):
be very strict mistress who they killed so violently that
it beats most of the crimes we talk about modern day.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
It really it doesn't. It doesn't fit with what you know,
what I mean, I'm not matching the punishment and all that.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yes, it's such extreme overkill that it's not so bizarre totally.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
So this is a little bit different.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
But this, I feel like, is the much more famous
version of this shared psychosis, and it is Ursula and
Sabina Ericsson. So in May of two thousand and eight,
two Swedish sisters who live in Ireland who are in
their late thirties named Ursula and Sabina Ericson twin sisters

(29:00):
that should be in there. They are twin sisters and
they live in County Cork and they've traveled to their
their try they're traveling to London, but they've taken they're
in Liverpool when this all goes down taking the bus
into London, or they're right outside Liverpool, I guess. So

(29:22):
when they first arrive in Liverpool or wherever they are
nearby it, the first thing they do is they walk
into the Saint Anne's Street police station and quote unquote
report concerns about Sabine's children. So from the get go
of their like trip to London, there's shit going on.
They immediately go and start talking to the police. Nothing

(29:46):
comes of it. They then they get on this bus,
the National Express coach into London. After a little while
on the bus, they tell the driver they don't feel well.
He pulls over to the roadside services and they get
off the bus. When they try to get back on
the bus, they are clutching these bags that they have

(30:08):
with them in a way that makes the driver suspicious.
So he says, we need to look in your bags
before you get back on the bus, and they're like,
no fucking way, And they're so weird about not letting
anybody look into their bags that the bus driver kicks
them off the bus and heaves them.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
There fucking hero. Oh wait, that's kind of shitty. Don't
leave women on the side of the road.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Well, but but I mean, like, so the second I
hear this, I'm like, what is in those bags?

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Totally?

Speaker 2 (30:37):
I need to know what's in those bags immediately. Oh yes,
I'm imagining lots right. So uh So the gas station
manager where they have stopped at these what they call
services in England, is informed by this bus driver these
two are acting weird and shady and so I'm not

(31:00):
letting him back on the bus. So that gas station
manager calls the police. They come and talk to Ursula
and Sabine, decide they're harmless and leave. So now Ursula
and Sabine are stranded by the M six, which is
a freeway in England and not the TV show M
I six, which I thought I was thinking of the

(31:21):
whole time I first started researching this. Have you ever
watched I sixpe with Matthew McFadden, who is mister Darcy
Richard arm anyway, good stuff, good stuff, good British procedural,
good talk. But there's an M six and then there's
an m I six. They're not the same thing, Karen, Okay.

(31:44):
So they're stranded and the next thing that they know
is that there's CCTV footage of them walking down the
central part of the freeway like that. So they have
run across the center median. Yes, they've run across the freeway,

(32:06):
so you can see. Here's the insane part of all this.
There is video footage of this entire incident.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I don't like, I've seen it, and it's like whenever
there's CCTV footage, I'm like, don't want to watch this.
Something awful is going to happen.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yes, that's bad too. But there was also basically a
British version of Cops which was called Motorway Yes, Motorway Cops,
which was a reality show that they were filming when
this happened. So the entire thing is caught on an
eng yes, like a TV show. That's why there's so much,

(32:46):
Like you can see all of it. It's super crazy. Yeah,
because did they sign waivers?

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Totally?

Speaker 2 (32:53):
There must be because they broke the law, they must
have to or something. So basically here's what or maybe
they have different rules ray of production, all right, here's
what happened. They're they're in the Central Median and they
they run to.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Cross it again.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Ursula gets across, but Sabina gets hit by a car.
So they call the Highway Agency traffic officers, which I
imagine is like the highway Patrol, but I don't know,
and I didn't look it up.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
I wrote this horrible thing.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Uh so when Highway Agency traffic officers, what I can
only imagine are the British Highway Patrol. So British chips,
which in America are crisps but England are French fries.
That's I love where you went with that.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
That was so expected. So like Fish and Chips, What
if like fish and what if there was like a
cop show that the cops were British and there's a
guy named like Andy Fish. So it's like fish and Chips,
Can someone please make a fucking We'll be the chips.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
So Carrie Fish is a British detective that's come to
Los Angeles and then.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
He needs the help of two girl podcasters Chips.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
Where the chips though, because we're British cops, we are
well because we have oh no, no, we're chips. We're highway chips. Yeah,
we're highway patrol right, all right, what fish could be?

Speaker 1 (34:26):
The band fish fish?

Speaker 2 (34:28):
The band fish fish and chips.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Leads cops like they're undercover narks, yes, and they go
to their shows.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
They nark on people at their own decks. They're pop cops. Yeah, guys,
here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
So basically, the British Highway Patrol shows up with this
British reality show called Motorway Cops. Fuck you, they're already
recording it.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's so shitty.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
No, no, no, they didn't know what the scenario was. They
showed up on the scene like, well, this is a
day in the life of these cops. Oh okay, yeah,
it's like that, okay, sou so as they So the
two twin women are standing on the side of the
road talking to these cops, and the guys that are

(35:17):
that were there first on the scene first are explaining
to the British police who showed up with the camera crew.
They're like, okay, so here's what happened. I guess they
ran across the freeway. We don't really know what they're doing.
One of them got hit, but she's okay and blah.
Blah blah, and they're explaining everything, and the two women
are standing there while the cops are talking to each other,

(35:38):
and then as the camera's rolling, Ursula bolts out into
the freeway and immediately gets hit by a truck and
it is on The truck is going fifty six miles
an hour. It's on camera, you can it doesn't there's

(36:01):
somebody that's kind of blocking it, so you don't see
like the real awful part.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
But and to make it clear, she's not running trying
to cross. She's running to get hit by her car.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Well, there's no it's just like that fucked up part
and Bowfinger where Eddie Murphy has to run across the
freeway for the like special effect.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Mm hmm you don't.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Well here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's not like Frogger words like one coming every couple
of seconds. It's like running into onto the five right now,
Like there's there's no pause in the traffic, right So
she ran out onto a busy freeway intentionally, fuck and
she does it and everybody's like, it's really upsetting because
it's all the cops going like whoah, my god or whatever.

(36:47):
And they're immediately onto their things, calling for an ambulance,
doing this, and while they're doing that, and one of
them runs out to stop traffic whatever. While they do that,
then Sabe runs out into the freeway. Fuck dude, because
there So it's the craziest thing to see because nobody,
of course, once the one goes, they're nobody goes, oh,

(37:10):
make sure the other one doesn't go.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
They all go fully shit, call coll an ambulance.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
You would never Yeah, who would do that.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
So Ursula's legs, so with Sabine runs out in the
freeway and immediately gets hit by a Volkswagen Polo.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
We don't keep driving those fucking cars. Yes, you've ruined
their live. I mean, I'm the lorry driver. The truck
driver that hit Ursula is on this. You can see
the video footage, and it's the saddest thing because he
just keeps going.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
She just thrown out in front of us.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
That's not the accent, but it's something like that where
he says us instead of me. It's rough and he's
just like kind of staring off, like in total shock.
But here's the thing. So Ursula's legs, she has compound
fractures in her legs.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
The cop.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
I saw a special on it.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
It's called like madnesson Motorway or something like that was
really good.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
But it's not as good as Fish and Ship.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
It is no fish and chips. I'll never never.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
She is down and this is so upsetting because her
she's bones are sticking.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Out of her legs.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
No no, no, no, yeah no, yeah, you're not gonna
get hit by a truck and the freeway and have
it not be really gross and upsetting. But meanwhile she's
down right, so the bottom half of her body is
not moving and it's fucked up badly, but the top
half of her they go and they put one of
those tinfoil marathon blankets on her, and they're like trying

(38:38):
to talk to her. Is basically like the ambulance is
going to be here, You're okay, And she starts going,
I know who you are. I know who you are,
and they're like, just take it easy, it's okay. She says,
I recognize you. I know you're not real. Oh my gosh,
and the police are just saying it's okay. Stayed out.

(39:00):
She tries. She's trying to get up, so it looks
like a really hideous part of like walking dead where
like the zombie's been like attacked from the back, but
they're still dragging themselves. Like she's trying to push herself
up but her legs aren't going to move, and she's
trying to like fight him. She's spitting at him.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
That's scary.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, she's freaking out. So her sister is, So that's Ursula.
Sabina is also on the ground and she looks like
she's out out and there it's there's a female cop
next to her, and I think the second person is
a woman who was maybe a passer by in a car.

(39:40):
I'm not sure, but they're both sitting there and they're
like she's got one of those tinfoil blankets on her
and she and and Sabina is just eyes closed out
and then she comes to and she like almost like
immediately gets up and they're like no, no, no, don't move,
don't move, and she's clearly like dazed, but she starts
saying they're gonna steal your organs.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
She's yelling that over to.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Ursula, They're going to steal your organs and she and
then she they're like no, no, no, stay down, and
they're trying to hold her down, and she starts yelling,
help call the police, and they're like, we are the police.
It's okay, and they're and so then they're thinking they're
on drugs. But they must be on some kind of
drug because now Sabine is up on her feet and

(40:24):
she's trying to like she's like like trying to get away,
and they're like, you need to calm down, it's okay.
She fucking jumps the rail and runs into the other
on the other side of the freeway. Swear to god,
they thank god, that wasn't as busy on that side,

(40:45):
and I think they may have stopped traffic, like traffic
was totally stopped on this side.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Where Ursula was going, slowing down and ship.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Probably and like maybe less traffic. I'm not sure, but anyway,
she runs across. This cop has to run after her,
and he's like, stop, what do you doing.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Don't you know you're hurt?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
You're hurt, And she's like and she basically turns turns
on him like she's gonna fist fight him. Oh my god,
and she's like and she's screaming, help call the police,
and they're like, we are the police, Like it's crazy.
So they so basically it eventually takes six policemen to
subdue Sabine. Oh my god, six policemen to finally get

(41:22):
her down and sedate like they shoot her up. They
meanwhile airlift Ursula out to the hospital. She was spitting
at them the whole like they were fighting the entire time,
and the cops that subdued Sabine said that she had
superhuman strength, that both of them did.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
So they're thinking.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
They're on probably on PCP or something like you know
the drugs associated with that we're taught as a kid,
or like yeah, you could like lift a car totally,
do whatever you want totally, which I just the idea
of whatever world that they were in where they thought

(42:02):
what was what was happening because they still don't know
to this day the logic behind and there's no explanation.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Wait, I hope I was hoping you'd get to the explanation.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well, I'm just going to spoiler alert for you right now.
They have never explained it in court. When she finally
went to court, all she would say is no comment.
They have never explained to any of it, and there
was no drugs in their system, So okay, she gets
they Finally they finally the six people get her down

(42:32):
sedate her. She goes to the hospital and then goes
directly into police custody in a place called Stoke on
Trent uh So on May nineteenth, two thousand and eight,
she is released from court. Sabina is released from court
without a full psychiatric evaluation, having pleaded guilty to trespass

(42:53):
on the motor roy and hitting a police officer, which
she decked that female police officer. She punched her right
in the face to get away from her. That's before
she ran across for the third fucking time. So the
court sentenced her to one day in custody, which she
had already served. So she leaves and she begins to

(43:14):
wander the streets of Stilly Cat trying to find her
sister in the hospital and carrying her possessions in a
clear pat plastic bag. So she's just kind of now
out on the street.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Let her go.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah, So she's that night. Two local guys who are
walking a dog see her and there she comes up
and is very friendly. She's petting the dog. They're all talking.
One of the men is a fifty four year old
man named Glenn Hollingshead, who is a self employed welder.

(43:46):
He was had been a paramedic and he was a
former RAF worker. The other man was his friend Peter Malloy,
And so they all start talking and even though she's friendly,
Sabina's acting super weird. So she does stuff like offers.
She's asking them if they know any the directions for

(44:07):
any good bed and breakfasts or any place to stay.
She offers them cigarettes and then takes them back while
they're smoking them, like she's so he so this guy,
Glenn hollings Head can tell there's something wrong with her.
This is the part I This is the part that
I'm like.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Did we do this one? Did we Stephen?

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Well, this is the murder part.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, so we must have talked about this.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
I'm sure we've talked about it, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I don't think we have.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I'd be a bummer. Well, who, you're doing a great job.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Well thanks, thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
So she they go back to his house because he
he's like, something's wrong with this lady and she's just
wandering out on the street. So they go back to
his house and she's basically.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
Saying, I need to find my sister.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
She's in the hospital, so they start I think they
said she she They hang out that night. She was
carrying multiple mobile phones and a laptop. She was constantly
looking out the window. She was super paranoid, and Molloy
assumed the friend assumes that she's run away from an
abusive partner the way she's acting, So they're like, you

(45:15):
can stay.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Here, and she's my all bandaged up and shit.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Right after being released.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
I don't but I don't think when she was up
and like basically trying to duke it out with this cop,
she looked fine. Having been hit by a car two times,
she seemed fine and didn't break any bones, apparently because
she wasn't like held at the hospital. So okay. So anyway,
when the friend leaves, he leaves at shortly before midnight,

(45:45):
and Sabina stays at the house. So the next morning,
Holling's head is calling local hospitals to find Ursula to
see where she is, and at let's see, this would
be seven forty in the morning. He goes outside to
ask his neighbor for tea bags and the neighbor says,

(46:07):
let me finish up what I'm doing and I'll come
and bring him over. And so so Glenn walks back
into the house. Oh, because he's watching his the neighbor's
washing his car. So he's like, oh, when I finish,
I'll bring him over. And then a minute after going inside,
he staggers back outside the house and saying to the neighbor,
she stabbed me and then collapses on the ground. And

(46:29):
when he'd gone back into the house, Sabina stabbed him
five times with a kitchen knife and he died from
his injuries there, and she ran and the neighbor calls
nine nine nine, which is nine one in England. Not
that I had to tell you that.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Does this seem familiar?

Speaker 1 (46:46):
No, I don't think we've done this one, okay, because.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
It seems familiar to me.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
But I know I've watched a full movie about this
on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
You can and we all can if you want to.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
After this.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
So essentially, uh, she goes out of this house with
a hammer in her hand and is hitting herself in
the head with the hammer. Uh huh So every once
in a while, periodically, it says from Wikipedia, uh So,
a passing motorist sees this, gets out of the car

(47:21):
and tries to grab the hammer away from her, and
while they're wrestling, Sabina pulls a roof tile out of
her the fuck out of her pocket. What the fuck
you know, when you're wandering around town like this looks
and you just put some stuff in your pocket. She
pulls it out and hits him in the head with it.
He's momentarily stonned, and she runs away.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
But at this point the paramedics from the nine to
nine to nine call have shown up and they see
her and they chase her, and they end up pursuing
her to heron cross where she jumps off a forty
foot bridge onto the A fifty, which is another.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Freeway or highway I can't stay away from.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
I mean, they love it. They love freeways and highways.
So that in that fall, she does break bones, so
she is not superhuman, and she's taken to the hospital,
and then when she's recovering there, she is put under
arrest and she's later discharged and then charged with murder,

(48:30):
and so so she goes to trial. They hold her
and this is the part that drives me crazy. They
she was supposed to go. She's charged with murder on September,
in September of two thousand and eight, the day she's
discharged from the hospital. But and the trial is scheduled
for February of two thousand and nine, but they can't

(48:53):
find her medical records from Sweden, so the trial is
then pushed to September of two thousand and nine. So basically,
these both of these sisters are kind of these mysteries.
They can't find anything about them, They can't figure out
what the deal is on them, which I think is
like so fascinating. Obviously there's there's mental illness taking place anyway,

(49:18):
there's something really serious going on real somehow. Yeah, So
she pleads guilty of manslaughter with diminished responsibility, but at
no point during her interrogation or during the trial does
she explain her actions. She only says no comment to
extensive police questioning. Both the prosecution and defense say that

(49:40):
she was insane at the time of the killing, but
sane during her trial, and the defense counsel claims that
Sabine is the secondary sufferer of fali Adu and that
Ursula was the like, the primary, like the out basically
the alpha in this situation, which is easy to say

(50:03):
now that she's off with her crushed.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Legs, and it doesn't diminish your responsibility for what you've done.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Well, because Ursula had nothing to do with that stabbing, right,
She wasn't there for it. So it's kind of like
it's trying to say, well, she's the one that's just
going along with everything, and it's like, yeah, but Ursula
wasn't there to tell her to do that, And obviously
way more is going on if that was her, if
that was her behavior when she was by.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Herself, I don't want to know.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I want to know all of it. Anyway, she's sentenced
to five years in prison. She had already spent four
hundred and thirty nine days in custody, so she was
She ended up being eligible for a release in twenty eleven.

Speaker 5 (50:48):
So they the judge says that she has a low
level of culpability for her actions, but basically that the
killing was based on mental illness.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
She thought she was in danger. They thought they were
in danger the whole time. They didn't know where they were,
when they were on the freeway, when all that.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Stuff was taking place.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
They clearly had a break from reality and had some
kind of a psychotic break because they were yelling at
the police, call the police, and the police were repeatedly
yelling back to them, we are the police, really and
that just wasn't didn't seem to be breaking through in
any way, and so I don't think there's no explanation,

(51:29):
but it didn't seem like that changed in any significant
way by the time Glenn Hollings had brought her into
his apartment. Yeah, I mean she was like that's that
kind of thing though, of like what are you doing?
Like what are you doing? This is like this is
not a healthy person or an okay person. I mean,
he was trying to be a good guy.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
It's what he was doing.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
But there's a lot of danger in that of like
just taking in a mentally ill person from the street
is is a dangerous thing, even if it's a woman. Yeah,
what was I gonna ask?

Speaker 1 (52:01):
So did they get out?

Speaker 2 (52:02):
She out? Yes, she was paroled and we don't know
hold on, yeah, yeah she got out. Where is she now?

Speaker 3 (52:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
I'm scared. I'm scared now. Uh.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
And the brother of.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Glenn h Halling's head, the guy that got stabbed Halend's head,
basically said that he he doesn't blame her because he
clearly understands that she was her mental state. She probably
thought that was something she needed to do, but she
blamed He blames that system that just released her into

(52:46):
the street with a plastic bag, going like, well, good luck.
You clearly ran across the freeway three times. But now
you're just on your own.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Yeah, yeah, without the person you've been with. So it's like,
we don't know if you Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
But so here's the thing that I want to know,
and like, let's just put aside. So because there weren't
drugs in their system, so all those all their theories
of like they're on PCP or this, none of that
proved out, and they I think the reason it's vague
here and hopefully there's other people that know the details,
and we would love to hear that. I would love
to hear them. But like the idea that they're not

(53:23):
they're not on drugs. Clearly there's some kind of a
psychosis taking place, but not so much that they then
get put into any kind of like that that Sabine
gets put into any kind of a mental hospital should.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
Have been what is it fifty fifty When they can
hold you for being crazy, for.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Some and like, what more do you need than people
across the freeway three times? Yeah, you're not hurt, get
out here, right, it doesn't It's very strange. It doesn't
make a ton of sense, But for me, I want
to know. So one of the things they said they
were carrying were a whole bunch of cell phones in
those bags.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Yeah, that they didn't want people to see.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
But the idea that they thought people wanted to take
their organs, like they thought they were being chased. They
thought they needed a bunch of cell phones. They couldn't
show them to people. They they like that idea. It's
like a you know, paranoid delusion or whatever. But like
what did they what was the world that they were in.
I would just be so fascinated to know the details

(54:21):
of what they thought was happening.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
It's one of those like mysteries of like you know,
like Tam and Choot that that guy you know that
I It's like, well, we ever know. I really want
to know. Maybe the answer someday will be like the
the girls, the girls in Austin who got killed at
the yogurt shot murders, Like I want to know so bad. Yeah,

(54:43):
we might never know, yeah, just so frustrating.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I feel like I I feel like I should have
done like more back end research. But for me, the
the fascinating part is that all I mean, it's the
stabbing is an insane like ending and so terrible and
so incredibly tragic, but like what was happening on that

(55:08):
freeway is so crazy and that to me, I got
all caught up in that and the video. I mean
watching that video.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Was just watched it.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
I did, because it's like it was.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
The whole story totally.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I understand it's crazy, though it doesn't it's like your
mind can't comprehend it because it's a person running into track.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
No I can't.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Yeah, it's crazy, wow, really really crazy. I want to
know also if Ursula being separate from if because they
were separated, if anybody like snapped.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Out of it and then was like, oh this is we.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Were we were?

Speaker 1 (55:43):
I mean, but you can't blame it on that. I can't. Like,
it's not real, the fucking like the connection that they
had that made them do this, you know what I mean,
Like they're just both crazy, right, but it's real. I'm sorry,
they're both mentally ill, yes, but separately they're mentally ill.
It's not like one is causing the other one.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Right, although that's kind of like the.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
What they say happy yes.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Because the other the Gibbons sisters, who are those who
are those twins who lived in Wales and they grew
up they were like some of the only black people
in Wales, So they grew up and they were terribly
bullied and abused, so they didn't talk to anybody but
each other, and they had a secret language. That's so
this is basically it's the same thing. They had a

(56:31):
thing where when they were in jail because they they
started lighting fires, so they went to jail, they went
to a mental hospital because they didn't talk to anybody
and they only talk to each other. But they would
do a thing where they would find one if standing
frozen in a certain pose in her cell, and they
would go to the other cell on the other side
of the jail and she would be standing in the

(56:51):
exact same pose. Oh my fucking god, Oh my god.
So there is something too, like the mental connection of twins.
I know there's something there, because like, how did that happen? Yeah,
unless it was like, oh, every day we do this thing.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Right at this time, maybe I don't know, or is
that you know, someone exaggerating at the mental hospital told
someone that, and that got a little bigger and bigger
and sure.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Like it's its own creepypasta.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yeah, well be kept.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
But every reporter there was a reporter that went and
spent time with them who said they were just incredibly eerie.
You know, it's like two people that don't feel the
need to talk, who would just sit there that also
are like, you know, twins. And one of them finally
said to that reporter, the only way I'm getting out
of here is if one of us dies and then
one did die of an expanded heart or something like

(57:50):
kind of for no reason, like in a way where
it's just one died and then the other got out
and she lived a normal life, right huh, Or at
least she's got out and living her life outside of lasp.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
If you could be a twin, would you be a twin?
I just don't want to be when I was a kid.
You what I wanted to be when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
I mean, I think it would be fun, it would
I bet it would be hard to like look at
yourself all the time.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Part of me was just like I kind of want
to know what I look like objectively, you know what
I mean? Yes, And do you ever like look at
photos and be like, Okay, if I saw that girl,
what would I think?

Speaker 2 (58:23):
I don't know, I mean. The funny thing to me
is that I can take such insanely bad pictures and
I can take really good pictures, and then it's like, well,
what is the I guess it's just a happy medium.
And that's how it is with everybody.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
It's so weird that, yeah, am I gonna get yeah? Everything?
What if you and I start sucking.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
What is it called morphing into each other? Follying, folly
you doing? Yes, let's do that on the road. Okay,
that'd be kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Let me be fun. It would be fun to.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Just oh run and just get your.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yeah, like, can you make my decisions for me? Please?
I'm done any decisions.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Yeah, my decision is to pull someone's eyes out.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Sorry, sorry, my decision is to a run into a freeway.
All right, Okay, we're back. And that was a classic
one that you covered. I remember that one. I always
have any updates, of.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Course, not no updates, no answers. No one's ever going
to tell us what the fuck was going on? But
I will say Sabina Erickson was released on parole in
twenty eleven. She reportedly returned to Sweden. Her current whereabouts
remain unknown. Her sister, Ursula recovered from her injuries and
moved to Washington State, where she continues to live. The

(59:42):
case still fascinates true crime audiences. Women in Crime covered
the sisters in twenty twenty four and a podcast called
Necronomapod in twenty twenty five. So people, I mean, this
is the kind of like listen to this, this really happened.
But I think it's the reason like that is because
it just is like, no, one can't explain it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
No, totally. It's a fascinating mystery.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
All right, Well, since we have no answers for you,
and apparently you don't have them for us either, because
we would have heard by now, we're just going to
go to Georgia's story about mel Ignatou.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
I love when I like think of a like when
I'm like, what murder should I do? And then I'm like, oh, yeah,
I've fucking been fascinated by this one for years. I'm
going to do it, you know, And it's like not
when you're just randomly fine. Yeah. So Mel Ignato is
a fifty year old man, he's a divorced father of
three grown kids, and Brenda Sue Schaeffer is thirty six.

(01:00:46):
She's a medical assistant, and they had been a relationship
for two years and engaged, and then in nineteen eighty eight,
Shaeffer decides to break it off, and she tells a
friend that Mel was sexually abusive and by all accounts,
everyone says he's controlling and he's a sadistic motherfucker, is

(01:01:07):
what I wrote. So Brenda goes missing after deciding to
break it off with Mel, and her car is found
on the highway real close to her home, close enough
that it had broken down she could have over walked home.
It's been broken into, the radio stolen, and family and police,

(01:01:28):
though quickly suspect Mel in the disappearance, but they aren't
able to locate any witnesses or physical evidence linking him,
and they can't find Brenda her body, so they interview
him to clear his name so he can clear his
name by testifying before a grand jury, and randomly he

(01:01:51):
mentions the name of his ex girlfriend of ten years,
Mary Anne Shore, which randomly brings her to the investigation
for the first time. They hadn't even known she wasn't
on the radar at all. So the police interview Marianne
and eventually she confesses to helping plan the murder of Brenda,
and of course, out of that, she gets a plea

(01:02:13):
bargain that she'll only get charged with tampering with evidence.
So Marianne tells police that Mel had convinced her to
help him plan and carry out Brenda's murder. They spends
they had spent several weeks making extensive preparations for Brenda's murder,

(01:02:35):
including quote scream testing Marianne's house and digging a grave
in the woods behind her house. Mel even keeps a
checklist of the things he was going to do to
Brenda on the night he killed her. And these photos
of her. You know, I watched a couple episodes of
all these shows. And he looks like, you know, he's

(01:02:56):
fifty years old. He looks like a dad. He looks
like a normal dude, normal eighties dad. She's thirty six,
and she's this pretty, you know, sweet looking girl, a
fucking sweet honesty.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Ad, you know, and it's his girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
They're engaged and they were together for two years. She
had been divorced, and he's kind of like showering her
with gifts and it just gets weirder and weirder though,
and her family says in the beginning, like, we just
didn't understand why she was with him at all and
didn't trust him from the beginning. But I think you know,
he was a sociopath, so he was fucking charming at first.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Yeah, he made her feel special, right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
So on September twenty third, nineteen eighty eight, Marianne tells
the police that Mel lures Brenda to the house under
the guise of her returning some jewelry that had belonged
to Mel that I think he must have bought her.
And when Brenda gets in the house, Mel pulls a
gun and locks the door, and Marianne is there this
whole time. He forces her to stray, then blindfolds, gags

(01:04:02):
and binds her, and he uses the list of all
the things he was going to do to her and
proceeds to go down the list doing each of them.
He ties her to a coffee table and he rapes, sodomizes,
and beats her, all the while having Marianne take photos
of what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
What in the fuck this is someone you were with
for two years? You have grown children? Like, who the fuck? Yeah,
let's see. Marianne says she never joined in and she
just took photos. Oh oh okay, Mary, Yeah, everything's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Then okay, you just took the photos of a vicious attack.
He then even grocer's see that, you know, like you're
standing by taking photos.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
Get out, lady.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
I can't even watch a fucking bar fight, like.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
I love a bar fight?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Do I love it?

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
I love it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
What about it?

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
I just like it's a very It's like watching attention.
It's from going to college in Sacramento.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
They happened all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Basically, bars would clear out and then people would just
stand around watching people fight until the cops came. And
then girls would like cry and like you know, drunk girls,
and you'd be like, if you just be quiet, it'll
be over faster and then we'll all go home. It's
my favorite. It's just like male It's it's you know,
eighties male.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Expression at show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
They're just like, I'm not a football player and I'm
not a frat boy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
I don't know what to do I'm all pent up
with my fucking testosterone and anger.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
And my feeling. I have all these feelings and I'm
not allowed to have them. And then I listen to
a lot of Boston so here, I'm going to punch
you right in the face.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
I saw a couple of vicious fights before, so like,
I feel like I have this aversion to them because
they were too awful. Yeah, I don't like, I can't,
I can't look.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
That's amazing. I love that. I love that. Anyways, back
to the horror.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
Okay, um.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Da da, she's taking photos, says she never joins in.
He then takes Mel, then takes Brenda back to the
back bedroom and kills her by putting a rag soaked
in chloroform over her mouth until she dies, her fucking baby,
and then Marianne helps Mel cover up the murder by
including burying Brenda in a hole they dug behind the house,

(01:06:31):
so they bury her. Mary Anne so after her admission
fourteen months after Brenda's disappearance, Marianne leads the investigators to
the grave site. They find Brenda's badly decomposed body buried there.
Of course, there's no DNA evidence since the body had
been decomposed, But that's in nineteen eighty eight, you know
what I mean? Like, I feel like now they could
have fourteen months. Isn't that long to be buried? Right?

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
I feel like these days they could get it in
so many ways. Totally yeah, But back then it was like, yeah, yeah,
did totally different story.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yes, So the investigators convinced Marianna wear a wire to
talk to Mel and she tells them that the FBI
is hounding her. She's afraid the property behind her house
is going to be sold and developed. And he's on
the tape reading her for letting the FBI quote rattle
her and told her that he didn't care if they
dug up the whole property because quote, that place we

(01:07:24):
dug is not shallow. So, based on this recording, as
well as a little physical evidence from his home, prosecutors
charge mel Ignatau of Ignato with the murder in nineteen
ninety one. And then, okay, let's see. So during one

(01:07:45):
of the recorded conversations, when mel says that place we
dug is not shallow, he says, besides that one area
right by where that site does not have any trees
by it. The defense attorney can vince the jury that
Mel said safe and not sight, and uh so it

(01:08:06):
led the jurors to conclude that the discussion involved burying
a safe, not a body, so instead of sight they
thought it would they convinced the jury that it was safe,
like they fucking buried a safe.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
But didn't Marianne already tell them everything they needed to know?

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Well so so, so Marianne testifies she's a star witness,
but she dresses like skimpy, laughs the whole time during
her testimony, and they argue. The defense argues that mari
Anne killed Brenda, not Mel, and so him saying that
thing about a safe doesn't implicate him in the murder.

(01:08:45):
WHOA yeah, so and she had been convicted of fraud before,
and so her credibility is totally underminded, undermounded, underminded, undermine,
undermined in the eyes.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
Under mound was a joke.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
I knew it wasn't that, Stephen. Don't write that down, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
I see you write that down under mounds, undermound.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
That's my new word, oh, I wrote her, all of
which undermines are a little bit credibility in the eyes
of the stupid idiot jury. Then I said, the stupid
idiot jury found Malignato not guilty on all seven counts.
Whoa yep. Then the judge, Martin Johnstone, he's so embarrassed
by the verdict that he writes a letter of apology

(01:09:28):
to the Schaeffer family saying, if it was just me
and not a jury, I would have fucking put this
guy away forever, which is like pretty amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
And then an interesting random fact, so it was this
was it took place like December twenty first or so,
And it turns out that when a trial, the closer
a trial takes place to Christmas, juries are more likely
to acquit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
That makes sense, it's not fucked up, yeap.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
Is it because they want to get the fuck out
of trial or is it because they have, like have
feelings of you know, when you get off fuzzy and
cozy during the holidays and you're like love and family
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
Yeah, I bet it's like, I bet it's a bit
of both, depending on the personality. But it's like normally
where you wouldn't have either at play, Yeah, you have
now both at play, right, So whether it's the person
that's like, but I just watched this Hallmark movie.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Yeah. Fuck, and like in the fucking courtroom there's like
a Christmas tree in the corner.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
And they're like, people are looking over there, like I've
got to go shopping now. They bake cookies, so it
just smells nice.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Immediate mistrial. Uh theys just no, they just spray air freshmen.
They smells like bake cookies.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Spray cinnamon glade. Don't you love it? Okay? Innocent?

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Okay. So six months later, Okay, then so he's out
this motherfucker. Six months later, he sells his house because
he needs funds to pay for his legal bills. And
the house is like, he's not a fucking trashy person.
He has a beautiful house. He looks like an guy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
I argue he is a trashy person.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
I mean clearly, you know what I mean, Like you
wouldn't know. Like when I was like researching it, I
was like, oh, I thought of like making a murderer dude, yes, right,
who just like lives on a you know, farm or whatever. No,
it's like a lovely tutor house and he is your
fucking dad's best friend in the eighties. Yeah, So he

(01:11:23):
sells the house he needs to pay for the legal bills.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
So a carpenter is laying a carpet layer is working
on the house. He pulls up a length of carpet
in the hallway. Underneath that carpet is a floor event.
Inside that floor event is a plastic bag taped to
the inside of the vent Ooh. Inside the bag is
the jewelry that Brenda had brought over the night of

(01:11:47):
as well as three rolls of undeveloped film.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
Oh shit, and he grabbed that bag and ran.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
Nope, because he didn't own the fucking house anymore. Someone
else owned it. Oh you mean the guy the carpet,
the carpenter, Yes, he.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Did, okay, good, okay, And now very silently, he.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Nailed in some wood and covered that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
He opened all the and he exposed the film. Anyways,
that's the nd of my story. And by yeah, so
the fucking cops get those three rolls of film developed.
It's like one hundred and eighty photos of start to finish.
Marianne's i mean, Brenda's torture and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Murder taken by Marianne. So everything she said was try
Mel holy well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Mel's face isn't in the film, but his body hair
patterns and match it perfectly. Oh good, okay, and match
her story? Yes, like she wasn't fucking lying. She's a
fucking monster. Yea, so she was lying. Hey, guess what, Karen?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
What ever heard of double jeopardy?

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
I you sure?

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
How?

Speaker 5 (01:12:50):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:12:50):
Here it is to ruin your night?

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Yep?

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Because of double jeopardy. Mel Campy retried for Brenda's murder.
He's brought a child for trial for perjury based on
his grand jury testimony. Because it's like all they could
fucking do. He knew he couldn't be retried for murder,
so he confesses in court at his perjury trial to
the whole fucking thing, turns to schaeffer, to Brenda's brothers,

(01:13:15):
and says, but she died peacefully.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
He gets an eight year sentence for perjury service, five
of those years credit for two years that he was served,
and another year off for good behavior. You get can
we look at your whole life of behavior and know
that you murdered someone? And then so that doesn't so
you fucking not getting in a fight at the mess
hall doesn't take get time off your fucking sentence. You'd

(01:13:44):
think one would think, excuse me, so sentenced. Okay, good behavior,
he's out. He gets another thing, another charge, another year,
another thing for perjury, a different thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
So they're still going after him in whatever way they can. Yeah,
like they do on law and order. Yeah, we'll get
him for good day.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
Right, So he gets he's another trial for perjury, nine
years for that, released from prison but the second time.
In December two thousand and six, he goes home to Louisville,
living at home four miles from the house where he
murdered Brenda Whoa. Two years later, September one, two thousand
and eight, Mel allegedly falls off a ladder, cuts his

(01:14:32):
arm on a glass coffee table. Again the coffee table. Oh,
slowly leads to death. Yay, he's seventy years old. Okay
is I'm sorry. So it's a ladder inside the house.
I think it's a ladder, but you know he's like
hanging or painting on a standing.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
Doing something done.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Yeah, falls off of it, and it's Some places say
he breaks through the glass and cuts his arms, some
say his head. But either way, like there was like
blood marks where you like climbed around the house and
like couldn't and so people are like, did he really
fall like.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Or did someone like basically go smash his head into
a glass coffee.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
Table, into a coffee table, which is the same thing
he fucking tied Brenda to when she came over somewhere.
I said, that's the same coffee table. But I don't
think that's true, and that would be yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
Well that would mean he would put that coffee table
into storage.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
But it wasn't his coffee table again with it was
Marianne's house. Okay, although I think he owned it, I
don't know something.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
So he's fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
This piece of shit is dead at seventy. In two
thousand and eight, Mary Anne served three years with five
year sentence, dies from cancer in the hospice at age
fifty four.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
Whoa, that's young. Yeah that yeah, yeah, that's her body
turned on herself.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
They were like, we're shutting this shit down.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
She's a monster. Like if you watch her talking and
see her, she's a monster.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
I don't understand, Like he's dating he's a fifth year
old man dating a thirty six year old or thirty
four year old. Why doesn't he just break up with her?
Why does he have to kill her? Hes have to
like rape her and demean her and what's the deal.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
In the worst way possible, And he planned it for weeks,
like he wanted to do this so badly to her,
and it was like two years. I mean, I just
don't understand.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
He's a beast. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
They went back and interviewed like ex girlfriends, his ex wife,
and by all accounts, he's a sexual sadist. Oh, he's
a fucking monster. Like it's surprising that this is the
first time he did it. Did that, you know, yeah,
especially because he planned like at fifty he kills the
first one, you know. Yeah, he had tortured his other
girlfriends like this before and they all broke up with him,

(01:16:47):
or they ended the relationship somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Or there's just ones that they don't know about.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Also, it's then it actually explains Marianne a little bit
more because those because of how like weird spangolish, those
types of men can be where suddenly you're doing things
that you would never do. Maybe I don't know, I
know we've talked a lot of it about Marianne, but
I'm just saying, oh, she's a victim too in that
way where it's just one more person in his weird

(01:17:13):
chain of the way he uses women and what he.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
Does to them against each other.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Yes, where it's just like, well, you're the special one,
so hold this camera.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
I mean, like god, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Just or she's terrified of him because she's had ten
years of fucking psychological and physical abuse from him as
well and sexual abuse shoes with him for ten years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Yeah, she's maybe in so deep and brainwashed.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
It brainwashed PTSD. Ugh, it's so ugly. That's gross. I
wish I had a positive spin on it at the end, but.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
No, I don't think you can spin that one one.
They're not that one or Brenda. Yeah, that's awful. Yeah, okay,
we're back.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
Wow. Any updates on this story?

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Yeah? I mean I think about this case a lot
because I feel like when you I just I think
about serving a search worm on someone's house, Like how
far do you go? Do you pull walls off? Like
you just a it's so frustrating. Yeah, you know, I
just wonder how they do. I'm very curious about search
warrants in houses and like what extent they go to.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Let me explain it to you, because I've watched Law
and Order a bunch. It seems to me like it
has to be within there's almost like an evidentiary scope,
Isn't that the thing they always say it's like out
of scope or not in scope. So you if you
were going to pull the walls down, you would have
to have some sort of like reliable evidence something's behind
those walls.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Right, and there's a list of things that they're looking for.
And if there's no reason for that thing to be
behind a wall, then yeah, you're probably right. But you know, right,
let us know, tell us we want to know, please lawyers.
So but I don't have any real updates. But this case,
of course, continues to spark conversation about double Jeopardy and
how the legal system can fail. The show Evil livesey

(01:19:05):
Or covered the case in a twenty twenty one episode
called He Got Away with Murder, which looks at what
happened and how double Jeopardy kept mel Ignatal from being retried.
I didn't mention this on the original episode. But there's
also a book called Double Jeopardy, Obsession, Murder, and Justice
Denied by Bob Hill. It came out in nineteen ninety five,
and it breaks down the twists in the case. The

(01:19:25):
courtroom drama and what went wrong? So check that out.
And then in twenty twenty four, forty eight Hours released
an episode called Double Jeopardy, which takes a deeper look
at how the law prevented justice in this case. So
just still a fascinating case to like deep dive into.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Yeah, I bet you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
I wonder how many lawyers got into like actually what
and studied law because of this case or because of
a Double Jeopardy case where it's like, how can that be?

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Yeah, that's not fair, right, but it is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
But it is for the protections of like, you can't
just keep retrying somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
Totally totally okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
So we have a hometown, yeah, from our own banana
boy Kurt Bronneller, who was not at the time their podcast,
Bananas the Weird News podcast did not exist, but he
I think, called in and left a message. Yeah, so
here's Kurt Broneller's hometown. We have a murder from a friend,

(01:20:20):
should we do kurts Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Yeah, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Okay, we haven't done a we haven't done a friend
hometown murder in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Yeah, And we have a friend, Kurt Broneller. I'm sure
you guys know he's a hilarious comedian actor, and.

Speaker 3 (01:20:36):
He called called one in.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
He called one in. I haven't listened to this. Let's
hear Kurtz.

Speaker 4 (01:20:42):
Hey, it's it's Kurt. So here's my here's my murder story.
I Uh. This was a teacher that taught at my
high school, Christian Brothers Academy. It sounds very fancy, but
it wasn't really fancy.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
It was just.

Speaker 4 (01:20:58):
A all boys Catholic school in Lyndcroft, New Jersey. He
was the Latin teacher a few years after I stopped
going there, But the Latin teachers historically had been lunatics.
The Latin teacher that was there when I was there
was a monk, like a brother. Most of the teachers
were brothers and they were all like weirdos, but he

(01:21:19):
was like the weirdest of the weirdos. He wouldn't allow
you to have a pen in class or hold a
pen and when we and he also would just always
constantly talk about his nieces little cupcake breast, not getting
obtressed about the bad many times about our little cupcake press.
He was taken out of the position of being a
Latin teacher because a kid in the class was holding

(01:21:40):
a pen and so he punched him in the mouth
and then they're like, Okay, you don't get to teach anymore.
And then that was taken over by my good friend Steve,
who was the Latin teacher for a little while. He
couldn't take it. It drove him crazy. He left that,
he stopped teaching and went to live in Italy to
become a stone sculptor, a marble stone sculptor. And that's
where this guy, this guy Matt, took over as the

(01:22:03):
Latin teacher. With teaching Latin the Christian Brother's Academy drove
him so crazy that he just started getting in the
smoking crack apparently in the afternoons in a place that
my aunt used to live called Ocean Grove. And Ocean
Grove is a Christian community, so Christian that in the
eighties on Sunday they would close off the town to cars.

(01:22:24):
He apparently Jesus doesn't like you to drive a car
on Sunday. And so my aunt used to live there
and she used to babysit me and she's since become
a nun. So I'm just trying to express to you
how Christian and Catholic this whole situation is This guy
works at Christian Brothers Academy. He's smoking crack with a
woman whose last name is wed so is Missus Weed

(01:22:44):
and this guy Matt are smoking crack together on a
Sunday afternoon, and then around six thirty pm they get
into an argument. He murders her with a knifety stamps
nine times in the neck after I guess there was
also some beat. It's very horrific, and then he just
walked out down the street to Ocean Grove. So near

(01:23:07):
minutes after people called the cops because they heard him screaming.
They just found him wandering down the streets of this
Christian town, just bloody, having murdered this woman they just
loved to smoke crack with on a Sunday afternoon. This
is at six thirty pm, so whenever they started smoking crack.
I have no idea, but that's what my high school

(01:23:28):
would do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
To you, Jesus, that's insanity.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Is the reord that I never want to hang out
with Kurt again, because I'm terrified.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
I love the visual of a guy covered in blood
walking through a town where you're not allowed to drive
on the weekends.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
It sounds like it sounds like, yeah, that was like
it sounds like a Twilight Zone town. Yes, that's so
perfect that then a guy suddenly the image of the
opposite of that walking through town.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
Also, what was driving people so crazy about that?

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Latin class sucking Latin man, there's some there's some like
devil shit, devil shit in there.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
It's devilish.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
I can believe they taught it there.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
Wow, that was her.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
That was quite the episode. That was that was dark.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
That one had something for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
Yeah, mostly murder if everyone wanted murder. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Well we're back, and the only update there is that
Kurt Bronnaller and Scottie Lindis have gone on to make
a podcast here at exactly right again called Bananas. Be
sure to listen. It's very funny.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
I mean it's like Kurt Kara Clank. Yeah, she she
did a hometown. She has a podcast here too. I mean,
like it's pretty clear our development process, friends and family.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Okay, we're going to jump back in for the end
of the original show.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
Oh wait, let's say something something good.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Okay, you go first.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
Okay, well mine is really big, but I also can't
super get into detail about it. But I'll just say this.
I had a year, a probably three year problem get
resolved on Friday afternoon that has caused me so much
stress and panic and shame. And it's a financial thing

(01:25:24):
that's boring in detail, but I will tell you this,
if you're in a place where you are fucked financially
and you're worried and you're scared, it will end. And
I swear to god, I've been in this place before,
but this is like a way, way, way, bigger version.
And it really felt hopeless at times, and it's over

(01:25:45):
and like and part of the reason it's over is
because of this podcast. And I'm so grateful that we
are doing it and that we have it. It means
the world to me, and I feel crazy lucky that
we actually get to do this as a job, so fun,
and also just the fact that now this truly it's
like a five hundred pound weight has been taken off

(01:26:06):
my shoulders.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
Happy for you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
It's really quite nice.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
I had no idea how rough it was until it ended,
and you told me.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
I know, I couldn't tell anybody about it. It was
so silly. Please tell me I can handle fucked up shit? Well, yeah, no,
I know, it's just that thing where I think it's
like I think everybody has. It's some version of it
where it's like the problem where you think it's this
means some terrible thing about me around it, Yeah, or
just like it's failure. It's it's I've failed, and now

(01:26:33):
everyone's going to know I failed. Right, But guess what.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
Everybody fails.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Everybody fails on all different levels every day and we're
all trying to make ourselves feel better about it. So
don't beat yourself up and just know the end there's
always there's always a silver lining. There was always light
at the end of the tunnel.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Yeah. I had in the same kind of idea of
that what you just said. I had after going to
therapy since I was a child, like after like around five.
I had the most amazing session today of I think
ever and she said to me halfway through, I know
you're an atheist, Georgia, but you worship at the altar

(01:27:13):
of doubt and it fucking blew my mind. And so
we're working on that now and how to get passed out.
And it was this switch today that I'm so it
made me hopeful for the first time in a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
When I met you when we were at Jones.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
On Lard tonight today.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
Yeah, you absolutely seemed different. Really, Yes, well you had
firstly the big smile because somebody who was telling you
a story about murder. There was a murder story happening
when I arrived. But then also, yeah, just that kind
of you had almost like the like almost the eyes
of like wide eyed wonder kind of thing of like,
oh my god, you can look at the world in

(01:27:52):
a different way, it felt.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
And so because of that, I want to say, like,
and I know it's so people try to find therapists
and they're new at it and they're like this in
a work for me, or I didn't like this person,
and it just is a lifetime of it. And I've
had so many fucking therapists in my life, and a
handful have been really good. Yeah, and the one I have,
luckily is right now, is amazing. And you just have

(01:28:13):
to keep keep trying, keep trying, because you'll find you'll
find it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
It is almost a little bit like dating. It has
to be a person that you want to spend that
time with that you want to barf all your.

Speaker 3 (01:28:23):
Worst stuff onto.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
Yeah, that under that still doesn't make you feel bad now.
They can't make you feel bad now.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
And this is the first time she's ever said something
straight up to me like that, and I fucking appreciate
it so much. And this is after a year of
beginning to know me, and that was just life changing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
Yeah, that's a good thing to realize and understand.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
There's options.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Yeah yeah, and uh fuck man, I feel lucky too
for this podcast. I can't believe this my life. I'm
so we're pretty lucky.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
So lucky.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
Knock on levenear would.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Thank you, Steven, Thanks for Stephen, Thank you so much
for really bringing up together and making this podcast happen.
Part of this.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Thank you Stephen of the procast.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
Flushing Stephen, you can't be here if you can't take
a compliment.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
I'm learning writing Stephen about not taking our case.

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
It's better if I yell at you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
Right feels like home.

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
Hey we are.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Back, man, me talking real time about getting out of
basically foreclosure on my house is what I was talking
about right there.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Yeah, I remember that. I remember like the load that
was lifted from your shoulders.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
I mean, dude, I painted myself into the corneriest corner
of all time that I was like, well, I've really
done it this time.

Speaker 3 (01:29:46):
There's just no way.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
And you were wrong. There was a way.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
I was so happily wrong. I'll never forget calling you
on the phone and being like, Hey, how much merch
money can I have? And you were like you can
have all the way up to this number. And I
was like, can I have all of that today? And
You're like absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
I don't know anything about taxes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
I'm just gonna just who knows. Let me wire this
to you quickly. I mean, truly, it was. It was
this podcast truly saved me.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
I'm sure me too. In so many ways. I do
get sad looking at my happy thing because in a
few episodes it's gonna turn into a sad thing. My therapist.
Oh god, Oh I just keep thinking about like when
we move into the loft, the pod loft, it's coming,
ye know, my therapist taking her life, and so seeing that,

(01:30:35):
I just wish I could. I wish she knew that,
you know. I just like, I'm very aware that's coming
up soon.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Yeah, horrible and such a that was so shocking.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Yeah, it's coming up. It's tough.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that was rough. There's more to
talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
I mean I ended up meeting her niece at a
live show because of the podcast and her mother, and yeah,
just there were pieces of joy that came from it
from a very sad thing, so very sad. We'll get there.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
Yeah, so we'll do the titles. Now, this is the
most ungraceful transition, but I'll just say, we're gonna go
ahead and do the titles now. Yeah, we originally entitled
this some Quiet So.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
Which is so good. If we were naming it today,
maybe we would call it it could be.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
We could name it Andy Fish, who is the lead
character in our hit British cop show Fish and.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
Chipsy Fish Fish and Chips podcasts, or just undermounded. Yes,
undermounded does sound like it. Yeah, I'm standing by it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
Yeah you should. I do, and there's no reason not to.
That's what the beauty of this podcast. We were like,
if we record ourselves for two hours, how many mistakes
can we make? And we're like, let's beat that every
week one point fifty two hundred, three hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
We got this. We got to get to five thousand.
That's it. Speaking of that's it. We're gonna let ourselves
back then, and Elvis say goodbye for.

Speaker 2 (01:32:10):
Us, that's right. But in the meantime, thank you, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
Thanks for joining us, you guys, and listening and.

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
And participating and guess what what he knows already. I
know you're jumping your line, Elvis, stay sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:32:28):
And don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
Bye,

All Episodes

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 58: Some Quiet Sunday

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 58: Some Quiet Sunday