Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 60: Jazz It - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
As you well know, every Wednesday, we recap our old
podcast episodes with all new commentary, updates, and insight.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
And today we're recapping episode sixty, which we named jazz
It Perfect Name find Out Why so Good.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
This episode came out on March sixteenth, twenty seventeen, so
let's get into it.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
The intro of episode sixty jazz It, Hi, Hi, Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
How's it going good? How are you all real? Good? Yourself? Good?
Thank you? Good? Good good? This is my favorite murder.
We're a podcast that talks about true crime stories and
and really breaks them down. Yep, and that's all we
talk about. That's not true. There is a lot of

(01:09):
lying on this podcast, and we don't.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, this is pretty This is pretty exactly how it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, if you don't like it, go away, don't. Harry
gets real mad at you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Sometimes I feel like people kind of like at live shows,
they like when you yell at them, they'll purposely like
scream something.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, I mean some of those live shows, it's like
those people have never been in a theater or been
to a live show before. It's just like drunk girls
who were repeat yelling the same thing over and over.
That's not how you act. Then you hear other people
shushing those people. Oh god, it's just intense. It's just
like it feels like there's a fight. It's going to
break out, and it might be with you. Oh that's

(01:54):
fine with me. I'm thoroughly trained. We love a bar fight. God,
I'm sorry. I do have some corrections. When you were
talking about Sam Shepherd and you told that story, I
began to confuse Sam Shepherd with doctor Jeffrey MacDonald who

(02:15):
also killed his whole family or is suspected of He's.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
The one with the there was saying there's three crazy people.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
They like to say these things. Yes, your guy, Sam
Shepherd was in the early sixties. My guy that I
was thinking you were talking about was in sixty nine
and so the whole time. That's why at one point
in that episode, I was like what year was it?
Because I was like, there could I in my mind,
there's no way there could be two doctors who killed
their whole families and were like like guilty or like

(02:45):
suspected it and also equally not and got away. Well,
this is sham sham Shepherd's the one sham sham. He's
a sham.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Sam Shepherd's one who got kind of famous afterwards. Yeah,
and like, was it kind of a douche? Right? They
were both but and and they both didn't kill their
children who were sleeping in the bedroom next to where
they killed their wives.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
I fit, well, I don't want to agree because I
killed their wives, all right, But doctor Jeffrey McDonald is
the one who Fatal Vision is about, and who is
also the one who the Errol Morris new novel that's
basically a refuting Fatal Vision is about. Wait, so we're
refuting saying that he did or didn't do it. Fatal

(03:30):
Vision was basically Joe McGuinness making friends with Jeffery McDonald
and then being like, here's how he did it. And
then when, like in Errol Morris's book, which I just
got a book on tape of, they basically break down
how it was just super mishandled and like it was
just they were trying to make money, helter skelter style,
and it was you know, the whole thing was kind

(03:52):
of unfairly presented. I guess, okay, but I have to
listen to the whole thing before. I sure do love
to talk about things I don't know which I feel
like you shouldn't listen. Let's hear it now. It's just theories.
Much like when I talked about Scooba diving and I
said that you have to have a partner because there's
no way you can check your things. Yeah, well, of course,

(04:15):
then everyone on Twitter's like, yes, you can check your things.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
It's not like someone's going to be like under the
water what I did, though, Karen said that you didn't
need to correct that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
I mean, here's the thing though, it's those little lies. Yeah,
it's the same one as I said that my dad
got chemotherapy three times a week, and then I thought
about this morning. I'm like, he got it once a week,
and he got it for like, you know, eight, I
don't know, three weeks, three months or something like that. Yeah,
but just as I talk, it's just all like blah
blah blah. But she sounds so confident about it, you know,

(04:49):
like I wouldn't. No, Uh, did you hear about the
chick in Seattle?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
And I'm sure you did, because every single person in
the world tweeted it at us. But the girl who
was running in the park in Seattle and Ballad, which
is like a nice little community who got attacked in
the pry in the bathroom and the public bathroom in
the park, which I'm terrified of those and she's, yeah,
she fucking fought him and said not today, a motherfucker.

(05:15):
And here's the gray area, is like you don't want
to say how bad as she is, because there's that's
sending the message that you should always fight once you
know that's it's just such a situational thing and like
reading the situation, so you don't want to be like,
beat the shit out of the person attacking you, because
that could be the absolute wrong thing.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
To do in that situation. I say, in all of
these scenarios, anything in life is a case by case situation.
And just because we're saying it out loud doesn't mean
it's a rule of any kind. No, nobody needs to
hear that in particular. But uh yeah, also if you,
if you I think in a situation like that, those bathrooms,

(05:53):
it's like a secluded she knows she's secluded in a park,
and then even more so in that bathroom, it's a
man inside the woman bathroom. That's there's nothing about this
that can be turned around. So go for it. Yeah,
that's true. Go for it. You know, you know, as
a human being, when you are in real danger, right,
that's then just allow those instincts to take over.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I think I would say, yeah, I think it's all instinctual.
I don't think it's any thinking at that point, right,
fuck man?

Speaker 2 (06:22):
And I like the idea that, like, I think, didn't
she say she had taken a self defense class, and
so that's where that came from. Is just like, because
that's the thing they teach you is you just start
fucking yelling.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Well, the thing I really did like about it, and
that I think what I took away from it is
that at one point, you know, she was fighting him,
and at one point she thought in her mind, this
doesn't have to be a fair fight, and so that
you know, it wasn't like wrestling. It was then she said,
I started clawing at his face. Yes, And I think
that that that to me kind of hit me because
it was like, this doesn't have to be civil. This

(06:53):
can be fucking out of control.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yes, if there is someone in the bathroom that came
into the bathroom too hard, you or touch you in
any way that you don't want to happen. You go
the knegos to the nuts, the fingers go to the eyes,
and you fucking go for it animal style, like they
serve it in and out. You fucking go for it. Yeah,
put some fucking thousand Island on that. You can have anotherfucker.

(07:17):
Put that thousand Island beat down. You melt that cheese
on top of that beat down.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Girl, and you fucking put some saute onions and some
fucking thousand island beat down.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's the it's called the Not Today motherfucker Special, and
you give it.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
You serve it up for free, animal style. Yeah, one
d per bone appetite. Mother.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
We have to take a class so we can talk
about actual I want to do it really bad. Let's
do it. Yeah, let's do it. I think the reason
that I hesitate, if I'm gonna be totally honest, is
because you know those suits that they make the people
put on so that you can attack them, or the
ones that the dog attacks, like to have the dog
attack you.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, but I'm just simply talking about the ones where
the guy has to stand there, but there's like a
great in front.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Of his space. And everything else's pads. I'm scared of that,
of that character or putting that on. It looks like
a it looks like an off brand michelin Man. That
in and of itself is like horrified. I think it
would like.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Stop me in my track. Maybe it would make you
fight him morey, Maybe your.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Hastings will kick in and you'll be like, well, I
can do this. Maybe I'm afraid that my animal animal
instincts will kick in. I'll pull that fucking grate out
of the face and then in with the fingers in
the eyes. Yeah, then I get to maybe you should.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Hey, you know what, why is this creepy guys teaching
this class?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Anyways? Like, what's really his motive? Now he has your
address because you have to fill out a thing.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Now he's my credit card number and your address, and
he's going to taco.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
They'll taco every night on my dime. You know that's bullshit,
A literal dime. Who is this Tuesday nights? You can
get so much done.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Oh oh man, I fucking hit that place so hard.
And Whence is out of town, I went to Oh
my god, you drive there? Yeah, I mean because it's
down the street from me, it's not.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's not super close. I say it's super close.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
I drove home and went there, but I did go
out of my way to go to Carls Junior, like.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
The day before. Nice.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
It's that fucking when the dog's away, the you know,
the animals.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yep, I bet your fart and all over this apartment.
I was. That's the fun of it. And you clean
all up, you put on one of your nicer house dresses. Yeah,
you're like, welcome home, come normal. I am ok. I
made you a cast rule he married a normal wife.
Way to go totally normal, white being like weird beings
out of.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
The corner of your mouth, thous an Island anything else.
Those were all my mistakes.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
That's it. Bless me, Father Fries. How long has it
been since your last episode of my favorite Murner? It's
been I mean it's probably ten a good ten years since,
haven't been.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, I always I've always been creeped out by confession.
It is as a Jewish person, I'm like, fuck.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
It, no, it's super weird. And the fact that they
uh introduce it to when you're in third grade is
the creepiest part. Because they explain it to you, and
for me the type of person I was, which is
hating to do anything I've never done before. I couldn't
get anybody to explain it enough to me.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Plus you have to memorize. You have to have the
our Father, the Hail Mary, and the Act of Contrition
all memorized perfectly. So if you're in there and it's
your line, like you can't drop a line, You're like,
I just learned my A B c's Yes, I'm like,
can you rash out like adding and subtracting, And now
I'm like, you have to recite an incantation to like

(10:50):
just the shadow of a man's face behind it is
the oldest looking inside those And who the fuck is he?
Does he have your address? You know what I mean?
Why did he want my child's credit card? Why did
he fucking who was he to say? Who was he
to take my harder and credit? In third grade?

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Uh, it's really crazily creepy. That's cool about Hebrew. When
you're like doing the prayers and stuff, is that a
they write it like phonetically so you can like just
follow that. And also they you can just kind of
make noise. Oh, because the whole congregation sing at it once.
It's kind of it. You know, it's pretty great.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
That is good. So I don't know, do you when's
the last time you went to temple? Oh? My years
and years and years. Oh no, do you ever have
that holiday thing where you're like, oh, it's.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Oh yeah, we go, we have holiday dinners and we
get together for holidays and we'll say a couple of
the prayers, but we don't but you don't take it
into that temple make it official. No, we're very chill,
right right, But I did have a bot mitzvah.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Did you stack that paper? Kind of what missed by
a lesbian?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Nice?

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Mom? Thanks mom. That's really really orange like oppoe that
Orange County have. Yeah. I like that. They don't really
do stuff like that down there. No, yeah, that's pretty sweet. Anyways,
it's surprising that you were a Jew in Orange County.
There weren't a lot of us. We had temple in
a church. We had Sunday school, I mean we.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Had Keeber School in a Sunday school. So there was
just like Jesus posters all.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Over the wall. They're like, you have an hour and
no more.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, get it out of the way.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Goodbye. You don't support what you're doing, I'll get the
book out of here. Hey, how about take a look
at this new testament. That's where all the action is.
So this is a podcast about true crime. Who was
Let's see who went.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
First at the last show, the live show? See then
I went first? Oh, you're right, okay, so it's me?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah what just everything's becoming a blur?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Why well?

Speaker 2 (12:56):
That my way? I just if you had made me
guess just now, it would be like a cute for
the show thing. I had absolutely not only no idea
who went first or last? I couldn't remember if it
was a live show or a pre recorded in this
room show.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
I get it like I'm not there. I'm not there either,
I'm far away.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Okay, And we are back from that intro. What's interesting,
This episode will be coming out the first day of
my favorite Murder live tour. That's right, So it's September third.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
We will be, as we're speaking, in Denver, Colorado, at
the Paramount Theater beginning our tour. I mean, who to
thunk it? Like back then episode sixty, tod be like
guess what?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, still happening, and you'll be talking about it on
an episode of a show you're not even doing yet,
that doesn't exist yet. Don't even worry about Just do
the show. Just keep going, Just keep going. So that's it.
There's actually a very exciting update for this episode. Do
you want to talk about it?

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, we want to talk about the women that we
had mentioned in the beginning of the episode, the woman
who've bought off her attacker. Her name is Kelly Harron.
She's a thirty six year old runner and as I said,
she was attacked in a public restroom in Seattle on
March fifth, twenty seventeen, by a registered sex offender hiding
an a stall, and she fought back. And now she

(14:17):
co teaches self defense workshops especially for runners and workplace
groups in participation with Fighting Chance Seattle, the same instructors
who taught the class that empowered her to fight back
in her twenty seventeen attack. And she also co founded
run Buddy, a safety app for joggers.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Like what an incredible woman. That's so cool. If you're
a jogger, please go download run Buddy and support Kelly
and all of her great work. Taking you know, something
horrible that happened in her life and from the second
it started. I mean to this day, I love her
being like not today, motherfucker. And it's like it feels
to me like she's just continued that advocacy like out

(14:58):
into the world, so so cool.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
I'm embarrassed to say I still have not taken a
self defense class with you or without you, And it
pops into my fucking head every couple of months, you know.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I know, I know, we got to do it. I mean, look,
there's been some other stuff going on, but this it
would be a really cool fun thing because I think
it's like a great opportunity women like hanging out learning something.
It's constructive, it's empowering. But then also you're just like
it doesn't have to be like a sip and paint

(15:31):
or a you know what I mean, there's things people
are doing or just going to a bar or whatever.
It's like, do something that's like as kind of that
fun of a group activity, but then also learn how
to break someone's trake if you need to.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I mean I follow a lot of those Instagram
accounts now, but that's not gonna watching It's not gonna
help me as much as doing it on a michelin
A fake micheline Man.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's statue. It's still scary. Yeah, I feel
like we should count up all the things we've said
we are going to do all this show, because there
truly are probably five thousands.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Oh my god, we just it seems so flaky once
we count the I think.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
We already do. We're just we have really good intentions
and we're like, we really we love our future selves
and we want to do so much for her, but
our present selves love the couch.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Oh, the couch is a beautiful place to be. Uh,
we're yeah, I agree. We're ambitious and lazy.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah, and this great combination is all right. We're doing fine,
We're doing our best.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
So let's get into Karen's story about Oh this is
a classic the Axe Man of New Orleans.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
So this interestingly enough, I got this murder from one
of my last packs of true crime baseball cards that
Stephen gave us for Christmas. I'm forgetting to look at those.
Here's what I'm doing. So, Uh, my new thing is
at spring is I just keep cleaning out drawers in
my house or like containers. That's awesome, thank you, it

(17:09):
feels good. I've also been wiping down walls, which is
a really weird hypnotic thing to do, like with the
magic eraser.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yes, oh my god, I'm obsessed with those exactly that
because I didn't realize I had don't look around in
my house that much.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, but there.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Are walls you quoted look around, open my eyeballs, like,
don't put your glasses on when you're going here in
my own home in any real present way.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I get it because I have two dogs, and one
is short to the ground dog. I didn't see that
there are many walls in my house that look like
the end of the Blair Witch where there's just a
bunch of child hands, like dirty fingerprints that look like
people are trying to climb it in or out of
the house because he jumps up. Yeah, like they jump.
And also the paint on the wall is old and

(17:54):
it's really powdery and porous instead of the opposite. I
have that tune. It feels like chalk. Yes you need
I need semi gloss. Yes, I will lose my mind
because with this other shit you walk by and say
the word dirt and there's a smudge on your wall.
It is maddening. So anyway, but I looked I realized
how much I got used to it because I was like,

(18:15):
that looks like a crime scene. Like it looks weird,
like like somebody's tiny tried to pull their way along
the wall, but it just frank, like running out of
one room and curbing and like his.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Little feet go up on the wall to keep clunking
into the wall. Why am I talking about?

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Because so so I cleaned so on top of those
just me and my free time.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Also cleaning out some drawers, found two more packets of
the True Crime, which I thought I was done with
all of them, so I got super excited. Opened one up.
Found this murder had never heard I think I'd heard
of it, but just like didn't really know any details
or any specifics. Can we really quickly? And I just
thought of this few seconds.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Is that where you got the Papan sisters from like
two episodes ago? Because I want to talk about the
gift we got that the girl gave us at one
of the live shows. Oh that's a good idea, should
just do it now? Yeah, okay, you guys remember the
Pants sisters. I clawed the eyeballs out of their fucking mistresses,
and this girl brought us a little packet and there
was a little necklace in it that said they're not marble,

(19:19):
They're not marbles.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
And there was a little lockett that had the Pan
sisters photograph in and then there was like a handmade
like clay eyeball.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yes. And it was just like the most well thought
out gift. I think, like these three little almost charms
in a box but no one would get if you
didn't know. And then we like opening it up and
looking at them. Did we each get one? Or that
we had one? And it's going up into the No,
we each got one, Okay, I can't believe that. So
she made two us to charm to lockets.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Too, And I don't think I knew how to express
to her like how an eye was of it, and
she acted like, oh know, stupid and it's like.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
No, no, we were like, this is amazing. We can't
we never get to do that because we kind of
feel that way. I think you see us saying it
a lot, but it really is true when somebody is like,
here's this thing I know you really like yeah, and
that's like I didn't make it. Yeah, it's unbelievable, it's amazing,
and it was. It's just a really good little eyeball too,
that's sitting there. Well, all right, crazy no, so no problem.

(20:24):
It's weird that you asked that though, because the Papan
sisters were in this deck. Oh my god, yes, chances.
I almost I should have done it. I almost sent
you a picture when I opened it and they were
like the third people in. I should have taken the
picture and sent it on our constant text thread that me,
Steve and Georgia are just never not on. Now, Yeah,
that's our life. It's photos. It's fucking close. It's Stephen going.

(20:45):
They've asked you seven times you have to answer, yeah, yes,
that's our life. Anyhow. So I found this here and
then in uh, in my research, it exploded and flowered
out into something else, which I just am kind of
amazed by. Okay, Okay, So here's how we start. It's
the Axe Man of New Orleans. You know that one. No, okay.

(21:07):
So he was a serial killer who's struck in the
city of New Orleans from May nineteen eighteen through October
of nineteen nineteen. He attacked obviously using an axe that
he found in the home. He didn't bring anything much time.
He starts. Okay, tell me yes. So it's it's the
turn of the century. So a lot of people have
axes laying around the outside of their house, and a

(21:29):
lot of the places where he attacked well in here
he sometimes did it with a straight razor, but mostly
with an axe, which one is worse straight razors fast. Yeah,
I don't think you'd even feel it. I think you'd
be like, why is my neck cold? In this one time?

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I don't want I want to know. I want to
be clunked over the head and fucking out. Okay, then
you want an axe? Oh I guess Yeah, which you
went an axe? Yeah, Jesus Christ, I think that's what
it is, because straight rain or you would, but you'd
bleed out so fast because it's just across the neck.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
I don't know if you would. I mean, you definitely
have time to look around panic. Don't want that. So
what's worse to me is straight Okay, what's worse? You
would just you want to be out? Yeah makes sense? Yeah, okay.
So here's what happened. This guy uh would use the
tools that he found in the home. He would kill
the whole family, and he would hang out either before

(22:28):
or after they can't. They couldn't figure out before or
after oftentimes eating so they could have could have. Usually
the helme is found locked when the police get there,
and it's never robbed, even though most of the time
that people have valuables out very very openly whatever, never

(22:50):
ever any sign of robbery, and oftentimes mirrors and faces
are covered with fabric. Creepy, Yes, okay, So it starts
on May twenty second, nineteen eighteen. So a grocer named
Joseph Maggio was sleeping alongside his wife Catherine at their

(23:13):
home on the corner of Upper Line and Magnolia Streets
for people that live in New Orleans. So a guy
breaks into their house. He cuts their throats with a
straight razor, and upon leaving, he bashes their heads under
then axe.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Oh so he found both in So you don't even
need to choose.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
That's right, here's where you take that off your plate.
I don't even need to ask that. Don't worry about
it anymore. Cut that out because you are going to
feel both quickly and then but it's over anyway. Yeah,
Catherine's throat was cut so deep that her head was
nearly So that's bad. And I see That's the thing.
Is like in those mafia movies and stuff, when the

(23:52):
guys get lean back and get at the barber to
get shaved, and the barber house the straight razor, and
oft times in it if it's a movie, they'll cut
their throat for reason. But that like bond of trust
that you would have to have with that man because
they're doing that to you.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
But I feel like a lot of times in movies
I've seen the the you know, the guy would lean
back to get shaved, close his eyes and then and
then the mafia guy would trade the places with the barber.
So the barber didn't do it. He was just a
neighborhood dude and he stepped out of his place. He
didn't he didn't retain his duty as the barber. Didn't
defend your life.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
He has a family to worry about. He took the
oath okay. So for a moment, I was like, what
the fuck? That's right? The barber's oh barbarza. I mean
there's probably uh okay. In the apartment, the police found bloody,
the bloody clothes of the murderer, so he changed into
a clean set of clothes before he left, which is

(24:50):
the like also reflects back to him just chilling out
like this, committing these terrible murders and was hanging out,
so the they didn't investigators didn't do a complete search
of the premises after the bodies were removed, so later on,
that bloody razor was found on a neighbor's lawn, and
that razor that was used to kill the couple belonged

(25:12):
to Andrew Maggio, who's the brother of the of Joseph,
the grocer who was murdered in his bed. And Andrew
owned a barber shop. There were brothers, weird, they were brothers, okay,
and those brothers are the people that found Joseph and
his wife Catherine because they were like staying at home
and not answering the phone or whatever, not doing what
they were supposed to be doing. And the three brothers

(25:32):
went over there and found their bodies. Fuck so do
his employee. Andrew's employee as Stebon Torres, told the police
that Maggio had removed the razor from his shop two
days prior to the murder, explaining that he wanted to
have a nick honed from the blade. So the razor
was out of the barber shop and had got like

(25:56):
gotten to get fixed somewhere. So an it's just out
of the it's in the mix now, I guess that
is what there is the point of that. Maggio, who
lived in the adjoining apartment to his brother's residence, discovered
the gruesome scene two hours after the attacks occurred, and
he blamed his failure to hear any noise related to
the attacks in the early morning hours on his being

(26:18):
drunk because he had returned home the night before from
a celebration due to his departure to join the navy. Police, however,
were surprised that he failed to hear the intruder, as
he did make a forced entry into the home. So
then Andrew Maggio, the brother of Joseph, became the police
chief's prime suspect, but then he was released when investigators

(26:41):
were convinced that his alibi held up. He also told
police that there was an unknown man seen lurking near
the residents prior to the murders. So then so that
was May twenty second. About a month later, on June
twenty seventh, in the early morning hours, Louise Besumer and

(27:04):
his Louis sorry Louis Besume let's say that because they're
all French. Back there in New Orleans, Louis Bessimee and
his mistress Harriet Lowe were attacked in the quarters at
the back of his grocery store. This is grocery number two.
Uh huh. Besume was struck in the with a hatchet
above his right temple, which resulted in a possible skull fracture,

(27:28):
and Harriet was hacked over the left ear and found
unconscious when the police arrived. They were discovered shortly after
seven am in the morning by John Zanka, who was
the bakery truck driver and he came to the grocery
to make a delivery, and then he found both Louis
Besimet and his mistress Harriet Lowe in a puddle of

(27:50):
their own blood, and the axe which had belonged to
Bessimey was found in the bathroom of the environment. So
bess may so they lived, and they he explained to
the police that he'd been sleeping. He was bashed with
a hatchet and then police arrest Lewis Obacon, who was

(28:11):
a forty one year old African American man who had
been employed in Bestmet's store weeks before the attacks, but
there was no evidence that proved it the man was
guilty or even related to this, but the police arrested
him nonetheless stating that he had that he had offered
conflicting accounts of where he was the night of the

(28:33):
murder for the morning of the murder. So then shortly
after that, Harriet Lowe stated that she remembered having been
attacked by a light skinned black man, but her statement
was discounted by the police because of her head injury
and because she was the mistress. She was an an
upstanding white oh Man, and robbery was said to be

(28:55):
the explanation and what Obikon's motive was, except for nothing
was removed from from the best who may best May's
home right? Uh So essentially what ends up happening is
who knows? Uh? Can that be heard? Did you hear it?

(29:16):
But I think it'll be like the ghost train, just
kind of faintly there is a child screeching that was
like a bone chilling scream. Though, should I throw something
at the off the balcony at them? On these little fuckers? Missus.
Harriet low then then starts to become like sensationalized in
the newspaper. She can't stop talking to the press. She's

(29:38):
criticizing the police. And then at once and this is
the mistress, this is the mistress. They and they keep
making a story about it because he basically got caught
with his mistress and was still married and this is
the story, and this is the story, not the.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Well.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
It was all just in constantly in the paper, The Times,
piling sensationalized low in her outspoken nature. Upon discover that
she was not the wife of Besime but a mistress.
A charity hospital source discovered the scandal when Besseme asked
to be directed to the room of missus Harriet Lowe
and was inevitably denied access as no woman by that
name was a patient, So it's like he's not in

(30:13):
a relative he can't visit her. Wow. Then his legal
wife arrived from Cincinnati Cincinnati in a couple days after
the discovery and then which further inflamed the ongoing drama,
and she was pissed as fuck. Besme was released and
the two lead investigators get demoted for unacceptable police force. Yes,

(30:38):
but then Bessi May is arrested in August nineteen eighteen
as Harriet Lowe, who was dying in a charity hospital
after a failed heart surgery, states that it was Louis
who attacked her with the hatchet. Louis being the brother. No, no, no,
Louis Bessime is the grocer. Is the guy that also

(30:58):
got attacked, is like, hey, did it whatever? That he
was acquitted after ten minutes. There was no proof and
it was they knew she was just kind of this lunatic. Yeah, whatever,
at least that's the story that I got. Okay. So
then August fifth, nineteen eighteen, a twenty eight year old
woman named missus Schnyder who was eight months pregnant that

(31:20):
was attacked in the early evening of her hours on
her house in Elmira Street. She awoke to find a
dark figure standing over here her and was bashed in
the face repeatedly. Her scalp was cut open, her face
was completely covered in blood. She was discovered after midnight
by her husband, who had been returning from work, and

(31:42):
she was still alive, and she claimed that she remembered
nothing of the attack. She gave birth to a healthy
baby girl two days after the incident. It was crazy.
Nothing had been stolen from the home, even though there
was cash left out, the windows and doors were not
forced open, and they put together that she was attacked

(32:05):
with a lamp on like a bedside table.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
I don't fucking attack pregnant people. I mean, he don't
attack anyone, but.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Like this guy, this guy really wants to attack everyone. Yeah,
as you will come to find out. Okay, So all right.
So then five days later, on August tenth, Joseph Fermano,
who's an elderly man living with his two nieces. The
two nieces hear him make a noise in his room
in their house that they live in together, and they

(32:33):
go in and discover that their uncle had taken a
serious blow to the head. He is so two huge
cuts in his head, and they see the guy fleeing
the scene as they walk in, but they can't tell
if he is thin or fat. They can't really say
anything for sure. They both have conflicting views. And even

(32:55):
though this old man was seriously injured, he could walk
to the ambulance, but he still died two days because
of the severe head trauma. Nothing was stolen. They found
a bloody axe in the backyard, and they discovered that
a panel had been chiseled out of the back door,
and that's how he was getting into these houses.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
He was like just like going up to the back
door and like basically just making a little like like
prying it open, essentially like chizzling a spot open.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
And then going in and unlocking it. I think someone
would hear that, Yeah, but it's they're all asleep, tip
tip tap tip tap. I still think you would have
heard that. I mean you would hope, you would hope
that these guys didn't. So then at this point, a
man named John D'Antonio, who was a retired Italian detective,

(33:45):
started making public statements in which he hypothesized about this
man who had committed these axe man murders. And he
described the potential killer as an individual of dual personalities
who killed without motive, and he said that it could
very likely be a normal while buying sisen who would
be who was often overcome by an overwhelming desire to kill.

(34:05):
And he later went on to describe the killer as
a real doctor Jacqueline mister, I just can't even yeah, okay.
So then on March tenth, nineteen nineteen, so about six
months later, eight months later, Charles court Miglia, an immigrant
who lived with his wife and baby on the corner

(34:26):
of Jefferson and Second Street in Gretna, Louisiana, which is
a suburb of New Orleans. There's screams coming from their house,
and so grocer Orlando Giordano rushes across the street to investigate,
and he sees that Charles Courdimiglia, his wife, Rosie, and
their infant daughter had all been attacked by the unknown intruder.

(34:51):
Rosie stood in the doorway with a head wound clutching
her deceased don So, this axe wielding motherfucker us goes
in and kills everybody, no matter their age. I guess
it sounds like you have to be a grosser of
some kind that qualifies you or Italian, but just kills
everybody in the like in the apartment or in the wood.

(35:13):
The fuck. It's super crazy, Okay. And again nothing, No,
they weren't robbed. It ain't about that. Yeah, nothing stolen.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
The back door was chiseled, the bloody axe was found
on the back porch.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
He like, does it and then just would leave it
and walk away. And I can't wait to find out
who this motherfucker is. Okay, So then the police are
sent a letter or a letter gets published in the newspaper.
I don't know the order of how it got sent,
but this is what it said. It said it was
postmarked from Hell, March thirteenth, nineteen nineteen. It reads esteemed mortal.

(35:49):
They have never caught me, and they never will. They
have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as
the ether that surrounds your earth. I'm not a human being,
but a spirit and a demon from the hottest Tell
I am what you or Lenians and your foolish policemen
call the axe man. When I see fit, I shall
come and claim other victims. I alone know whom they

(36:10):
shall be. I shall leave no clue except my bloody
axe be smeared with blood and brains of he whom
I have sent below to keep me company.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
If you wish, you may tell the police to be
careful not to rile me. Of course, I am a
reasonable spirit. I take no offense at the way they
have conducted their investigations in the past. In fact, they
have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse
me but his satanic Majesty Francis Joseph.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
But tell them to beware. Let them not try to
discover what I am, for it were better that they
were never born than to occur the wrath of the
axe man. I don't think there's any need of such warning,
for I feel the police will always always dodge me,
as they have in the past. They are wise and
know how to keep all away from harm. Undoubtedly, you
or Linians think of me as the most horrible murderer,

(36:58):
which I am. But I could be much worse if
I wanted to. If I wished, I could pay a
visit to your city every night at will, I could
slay thousands of your best citizens. For I am in
close relationship with the angel of Death. Now to be exact,
at twelve to fifteen earthly time on next Tuesday night,
I'm going to pass over New Orleans in my infinite mercy.

(37:19):
I'm going to make a little proposition to you people here.
It is I am very fond of jazz music, and
I swear by all the devils in the nether regions
that every person shall be spared in whom a jazz
band is in full swing at the time I have
just mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going well,
then so much the better for you people. One thing

(37:39):
is certain, and that is that some of your people
who do not jazz it on Tuesday night, if there
be any, will get the acts well. As I am
cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartaris, and
it is about time I leave your earthly home. I
will cease my discourse, hoping though will publish this that

(37:59):
it may go well with the I have been am
and will be the worst spirit that ever existed, either
in fact or realm of fancy. The axe man Jesus,
he's chatty, Oh god. So it reminds me of Richard
Ramirez's big speech in court where he's just like I
am the where it's that thing of like, you know,

(38:21):
he's not just a man anymore. He's like become a
god and all that kind of psychotic stuff.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yes, very psychotic, but also very biblical. Oh yeah, but
also the yeah, and the whole thing. The whole time,
I was like, well, the more you talk, the more
the more you write, and the more information you give,
you're just giving away and your more clues, So shut
the fuck up.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah. Yeah, But doesn't it seem like he has a
bit of a like because this is not essentially the
story of Passover.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Oh yeah, you'll pass over, you'll pass over the house
if they have jazz music.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Please, That's exactly it. It's not why you guys have
so much fun on passover, you have the best time.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
No. I was like, this is where and buy a
fucking a record label. Exac, Who's like, wants it's jazz
music to be playing playing?

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Who do not jazz it? On Tuesday night?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
That's our new like Tuesday night club at whatever bar.
We got a jazz at jazz and nobody likes jazz.
So everyone's like a little unhappy.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, but it's like, well we'll kill you if well,
we just got to do it. Let's get through these
next fifteen minutes. Well apparently, so everyone jazzed it on
that Tuesday night and no one was shut up. Yeah,
it actually worked, excuse me. But then, of course, as
it always, as it always does it always, but thens

(39:36):
there's so many but thens August tenth, Steve Boca, a grocer,
is attacked in his bedroom as he sleeps. Wait, is
he really purposely getting grocers? Well yes, because they all
are they what a bomber? I mean, sell your business
so specific but it's they say grocer here. But I
also think it means people who keep stores. So it's
like sometimes it's a guy that has like a grocery

(39:58):
store and a bar type of place or some kind
of thing. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean like the big
thing of lettuce that's on the sidewalk, per se the
green grocer. They used to call them, right, the green grocer.
But there it is people that own stores. Weird, super
fucking weird. Okay. So then he wakes in the night,

(40:19):
finds a dark figure looming over him. When he regains consciousness,
he runs into the street finds that his head has
been cracked open. You found that found I found my
head to be cracked over, you know what. I need
help here. So he goes to his neighbor's house, collapses.

(40:39):
Then the neighbor calls the police. Nothing's taken from the home.
A panel on the back door had been chiseled away.
Boker recovered from his injuries, but he had again no memory.
And that's every single person that survives knows nothing about
what happened. Head injuries. September thirteenth. That happens again. Sarah

(41:00):
Lawman was attacked on the night of September thirteenth. Her
neighbors came to check on her because she lived alone
and they hadn't seen her in a while. They broke
into her house when she didn't answer, and discovered the
nineteen year old lying unconscious on her bed, suffering from
a severe head injury, missing several teeth. Oh, this guy
goes straight for the fucking right to the face and

(41:20):
nod him.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
They say that all of the injuries were neck head,
and only a couple had on their defensive wombs on
their arms. Most of them. He would just get in
there and chop very precisely weird, and sometimes he would
obliterate the face of the man, and sometimes he would
rape the Bible. All right, Oh, but here's so bloody

(41:44):
axe is discovered on the front lawn. She recovered from
her injuries. Could any now? October twenty seventh, Mike Pepatone
is attacked. Did you ask Eddie Pepatone? I get put
in a call. He won't talk to me. That would
be amazing. I've never heard that last name before, I
know anyway. I so she sees his wife is awakened

(42:08):
by a noise and walks into the bedroom. Walks to
the bedroom door just as a large axe wielding man
is fleeing the scene. Mike had been struck in the
head was covered in his own blood. Blood spreader covered
the majority of the room, but Missus Pepotone is unable
to explain any of the killers described the killer in

(42:28):
any way. I did read something that said Missus Pepton,
missus Pepotone went on to shoot the man she believed
was standing there. So this is a different story than
the end of this one, which is basically, she didn't
know and she had nothing to explain to say to
the cops. There's another story that said missus Pepotone knew
who it was and after her husband, like a couple

(42:53):
weeks after the murder, she shot the man in the
street and then the murder stopped happening. That's right now,
who knows? Yeah, and then she herself was convicted of
murder and was in jail for ten years. What the shit?
Who knows about any of that?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
So?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Okay, So that's the those are that's the full realm
of the of the Axe Man of New Orleans murders. Okay,
But then I watched a documentary on the YouTube that
was actually very good, although it seemed very like kind
of homemade, self produced. The guy that was narrating it,
I don't think his British accent was his original accent

(43:35):
of life. It had a little bit of this feel
to it. It was what's the word when you try
too hard? You're an actor? Yep. It was had a
real actor feel effect. Affected. Affected, Yeah, okay, but it's
really good, good information. I could be totally wrong about
the accent. Also doesn't mean it's not real good, that's right.

(43:58):
But here's the thing. Every once in a whileness, it's
like a fifty minute documentary and everyone's while when he's
talking about a different fact, they'll just be like a
sound effect of screaming. So it's just like almost like
Haunted House style like carmond Is with the children screaming outside.
I guess it is effective. So it's not, you know,
affected and effective. It's affecting. It's affected, Okay. This documentary

(44:24):
basically theorizes that the axe Man of New Orleans actually
was killing for long before the New Orleans attacks and
after and he so they just start saying because from
eighteen seventy nine to nineteen twenty two in America, there
were lots and lots of axe murderers, or a guy
broke into the house by chiseling the back door, chiseling

(44:47):
in the middle of the night, killing an entire family,
not robbing them, using their own acts to do it,
with eating before or after hanging out in the house,
usually a farmer. Usually it's like a whole family, and
it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere where
it takes a couple of days.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Rural brutal as fun nor rural rural, rural, brutal, rural,
the brutal rural.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, okay, so and this is just so the guys
just basically saying these aren't this is so long ago,
and this is like pre any of the like percy,
you know, police procedural knowledge that we have now there
there also could be more and people just haven't connected
the fact. But okay, So in eighteen seventy nine, an

(45:33):
elderly couple, this is somewhere in Georgia. It's a rainy night.
They're attacked, almost decapitated, and when the police investigate the
crime scene, they find that someone had been hiding an
upstairs room for minimum of two days because there were smoke,
cigarettes and human feces in there. So someone had snuck

(45:55):
into their house, hung out, and then waited fuck for
the night time.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
I always want to live in a small house. I
don't want there to be rooms that just don't get
looked into.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, no, addicts, No, you could also you could also
like release, you know, I don't know, some kind of
super dangerous animal every night, just to take a run
around the house. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I was gonna say cobra, but that'd be too scary.
How about a siam acrosside Siamese. Yeah, he's very intimidating.
So this is it was their axe. The axe was
left in the fireplace.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
There was no robbery, even though there was a stash
of silver on like the kitchen counter. Five years later,
in eighteen eighty four in Austin, Texas, a woman named
Molly Smith is attacked in her bed with an axe,
and then the attacker pulls her outside into the backyard,
rapes her, and murders her outside weird. Several months later,

(46:52):
Eliza Shelley is also murdered with an axe. Her head
is split open, and on that one the police know
that none of the dogs in the neighborhood barked, and
there were dogs that were tied up right next door,
and they didn't bark or have a reaction of any
kind the entire night. So it was a silent night

(47:12):
on both of those nights.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
Weird, and that freaked the police out really bad because
it's like, usually you just get a little something people,
but always that note always freaks me out because it's
clearly someone that the dogs know.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yes, and that's been doing kind of doing their groundwork, yeah,
to like make sure the dogs are like, he's gonna
throw them food or something. Yeah, he's he's So four
more people are killed in this same way, slaughtered in
their beds, with their own acts, no robbery, the weapons

(47:46):
left in the house. Until Christmas Eve of eighteen eighty five,
a couple is attacked and the bloodhound could couldn't get
a scent like they they gave the bloodhouted thing to
smell that was from the axe left behind, and they
couldn't get a scent and they were like the best
bloodhounds around or whatever. So again it was that thing

(48:08):
where the cops were like, maybe this is a demon
like whatever. Yeah. Uh, this was before so they would
be like, huh, maybe some demon's going to write us
a letter in fifteen years right. Oh. Also here, in
like a couple other places, they found bare footprints in
the blood. Ooh, weird in eighteen ninety seven. This is

(48:29):
twelve years later now up in Paradise Ridge, Tennessee, the
Aid family. A neighbor sees the Aid family farmhouse on fire,
and so he uh goes over to see what's happening.
And not only is their house on fire, but their
barn and a couple of other buildings on their ranch.
And when they put the fire out, they find the

(48:49):
entire family has been murdered with an axe. The parents,
their daughter who was in her twenties, the son who
was thirteen, and a neighbor girl who was ten. I
think that's him. What's that? I don't think it's him.
That one. The killer ate either before or after the killing.
He hung out in the house. And the neighbor girl,

(49:13):
they think the way they traced it, she got away
and he caught her, killed her and threw her back
into the burning Oh my god. Fourteen years after that
in I cannot see what that says? Something or again
near Portland. It's near Portland. The Hill family is murdered
in their house. The children are murdered in their beds.

(49:35):
It's everything is exactly the same, so it's it's just
basically they've pulled all these crimes where like an entire family,
no robbery, axe head wounds, all of it. A month
after that, in Rainer, Washington, Archie Cobble and his wife
are murdered in their bed with an axe. In nineteen eleven,

(49:58):
in Colorado Springs, a man walks into the home of
Alice Buncheon, I think it says, and murdered her and
her six year old daughter and her three year old son.
And when her sister went to visit she found the bodies.
She ran outside and screamed for help, and everybody in
the neighborhood came running, except the family that nit lived

(50:19):
next door, the Wayne family, and so they went to
check on them, and the wife, husband, and one year
old baby had all been slaughtered in their beds, and
then the beds were made up after them like the kill.
Her killer had killed them and then tucked them back
in horrifine, so it looked like they were sleeping. Both

(50:40):
of those cases no robbery. Both houses were locked from
the inside. Thirteen days after that, in Monmouth, Illinois, the
first Presbyterian church is not open for the service on Sunday,
so everybody calls the caretaker, who doesn't answer. They go
to the caretaker's house and he sorry. Mister Danson is

(51:03):
the caretaker. He, his wife, and their teen daughter are
murdered in their beds. There's no robbery. Two weeks later,
in Ellsworth, Kansas. Ellsworth, Kansas, the Sherman family hasn't been
seen for a while. A neighbor that's worried about them
because they weren't answering their phone goes to visit. All
five of the Shermans have been murdered with an axe

(51:26):
in their house. The police found the axe and the
phone was wrapped with a piece of someone's clothing was
wrapped around the phone, and the police later realized that
it was probably because the neighbor was calling over and
over and so he wrapped that so he wouldn't have

(51:47):
to hear the phone silence. Creepy yes. Two weeks later,
in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, mister J. B. Jordan leaves for work.
He doesn't lock the kitchen door. Their eldest son is upstairs.
He hears his mother screamed. He runs downstairs and finds
that she's been attacked in her bed with an axe.

(52:08):
She has an injury to her head, but she survives,
but it remembers nothing. Nothing is They're not robbed, and
nobody sees anything. Eight months later, in Paola, Kansas, a
young couple in their early twenties, the Hudson's, hadn't been seen.
Neighbors check. They're murdered in their bed. And that night
a family in the same town wakes to the sound

(52:30):
of a lamp crashing to the floor and the father
goes downstairs to see what it is and he sees
a man leaving their house. Oh less than a week later,
and I think I'm pronouncing this right. In Veleska, Iowa,
it's the Velleska axe murderers. Remember there was somebody that

(52:51):
brought us a bag of stuff from the Vellska. I
don't know if I'm pronouncing it right. Do you know
stevea Velaska?

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Okay, So this is the most this is one of
the most famous axe murder cases. But I didn't realize
that the theory is basically this is one guy because
this the Velaska axe murder house.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
So it's the more family.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Was it like the murders from the Tremen pope similar, Okay, yeah,
where where they just killed that family for no reason?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
But this is it's their whole family. They'd gotten back
from church, and then nobody saw them for days. But
they did see smoke coming out of the chimney, but
they just didn't see them out on their farm doing
their chores. So the neighbors were just like, what's that's weird.
So after three days they go check. The entire family
has been murdered with axes in their beds, plus two

(53:47):
little girls who were there for a sleepover that were
neighbor girls. So eight people were murdered in this house
with axes and he They found that the man had
been hiding at every mirror in the house was covered
with a piece of clothing. Nothing had been stolen. The
killer definitely spent at least two days there, lots of like,

(54:13):
had made food, left a bunch of stuff out, and
they found proof again that he had waited in the
attic for two days until nighttime so he could come
out and surprise them and murder them. And then in
nineteen fourteen in Blue Island, Illinois, a family is found

(54:33):
This is two years later a family's found murdered in
their bed, and then that brings us up to the
nineteen eighteen in New Orleans and then four years later
in Germany. So then in the nineteen nineteen murder Christmas
Eve was the last one the Peppa town where the
chicks shot at him, right suppose shot and killed somebody,
and then the murders ended. But in Germany, there was

(54:56):
a farmer who saw a set of footprints this story
in the snow leading to his house, but not away.
This is the craziest story. He searches his whole house
top to bottom, doesn't find anything, goes to bed that night,
either that night or the next night, and then he's murdered.
He and his family are murdered, and it's the exact

(55:17):
same thing.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
And that guy hides in their house. I think, right, yes,
he's hidden in their house. But they couldn't find where.
All of the bodies in this were covered with sheets
or some of them are out in the barn, so
they were covered in piles of hay. He stayed through

(55:40):
the weekend and there was no robbery, So it was
exactly the same moo as all of these other ones.
So basically, so it's just saying it could be this
German immigrant because and the Volesca axe murder house, there
was a note written in German under the table that
was left behind, and there was another one of the

(56:01):
women that survived in the earlier ones heard him speaking
in German, So there was a theory that he was
a German immigrant who kind of did this for you
know what. It seems like over twenty maybe thirty years,
then takes a book back to Germany. He's going to
chill out, and then four years later he can't wait

(56:22):
anymore and he does it again or has been doing it,
and they just never got Yes, I just wonder up
in town there was anyone who had like been away
if they had.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Known to ask that you mean in Germany? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's it's super crazy. It's so extreme. So then this
is the best part. But I don't I don't get
how it connects. It connects in this documentary perfectly because
the guy is going like meats and he's like in

(56:51):
nineteen ninety four. But it's super awesome anyway, even if
it's not real. But so basically a guy there there
they have an old a navy ship that they're basically
parting out because it's like done for it's retired or
whatever they call that. And so this guy was his
job to go through this navy ship before they take

(57:14):
it all apart and take pictures and record and basically
do a report on what the status of the ship
was and give inventory so they know what should be saved.
Creepy to begin with. Can you imagine being alone in
a fucking navy ship? Why alone?

Speaker 1 (57:29):
And also there was some extra things where I was like,
we're guilding the lily here where it was like because he,
you know, the whole ship was off, so he had
a flashlight.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Then he were trying a flashlight off and it was
said that he haunted I mean yeah, his camera.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
But even still when he turned all the pictures in
and it was hundreds and hundreds of pictures, he got
a frantic call back from like headquarters or whatever, and
they're like, who's the old man with the axe in
that picture? Oh my god. So then they send him
the picture. Oh my god, you're gonna show me. Yeah, right,
shot the fuck up. It's real. Oh my god, I'm

(58:06):
gonna cry.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
I'm gonna cry.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
I'm gonna cry. Let me see here, Steven I dropped
the phone that is no, yeah, yeah, don't.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Want Like, that's the creepiest, scariest thing I've ever seen
in my life.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Chills, chill people, what do people like? Look up axe
man navy ship. That's exactly what I put on my
old man axe. Oh and look, I don't want here's
a close up. I don't want it for everybody else.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
We'll post this, but uh, it's basically you know when
you do you see like a ghost a ghost investigator show,
and they do a thing where they'll circle something in
a picture and you're like, I have no idea what
you're talking about. This is clearly a man on this
ship with an axe in his hand, but the close
up is less convincing to me. We're honestly like, it

(58:59):
looks like the guys wearing like a mask of like
that commercial with the like an old man mask but
the six flags guy dances guy but.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Far away and that's definitely an axe.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
It's far away, and like, yeah, that's it looks like
something you wouldn't notice until you saw the photo.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Kind of a thing. Well, also, I love the idea
it's too close. I love the idea of this old
guy is so good at like evading the police and
getting away with stuff that he knows to like, Oh,
I'm just going to go live on this old ship
that they haven't parted out yet totally Like that idea
does link together well for me. And then they at

(59:39):
the end of this documentary I highly recommend and again
you just go put in the axe Man of Noorleans
and it'll come up. It's the only one that's like
fifty minutes long. But they they start listing all of
the other unrelated, unsolved but full family axe murders where
there was no robbery and like basically all of those
qualifiers that I kept repeating. Yeah, and there were probably

(01:00:01):
like eight of them additionally that were just in random
cities and what I would love to do. And I'm
sure somebody has because they said somewhere it said they
were all near railroad tracks. So this guy could have
just been hopping on a train and just going because
he really does clearly is just a drifter. Yeah, that's
going from place to place. And what a perfect way

(01:00:23):
to be a murderer. Ye, you do it, jump on
a train, you were never there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
I'm wondering if there's some like, you know, uh, German
fairy tale that has to do with like all the
weird shit that was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
In that letter.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yeah, you know, like he mentioned specific places that I'd
never heard of, like in regards to Hell. So I
wonder if like there's some connection there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Yeah, I wonder if they've done any kind of like
studying Jack the River styles about it. Yeah. Yeah, I
had no idea it was this. Like I found that
to be so fascinating because because it is one of
those things like the Velesca axe murder house and that
whole it's so crazy that it is a standalone murder story. Yeah,

(01:01:08):
but it could possibly be connected to this other like
just a crazy serial killer. That if if it is
this guy he killed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Sixty one people of the cases they know as a
scandalone murder, it's like, well, it's someone they knew or
that had a beef with someone or that you know,
they were partners with in business and so they wanted
it to himself. But if it's not, then that's even
then that makes almost more sense.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Yeah, it's just the house by the railroad tracks where
he felt like jumping off in the first place, needed
to close What kind of interesting I'm sure there's plenty
more other people know that photo is fucking horrifying. Get
ready to enjoy it, all right, people of no orally listening, people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Of Okay, we're back, Karen. Do you have any updates?

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
No updates, But there's some interesting theories about this case
and the identity of the axe Man. A New Orleans
historian named Bond Ruggles thinks that the axe Man was
not a man, but believes it was a woman who
outsmarted everyone, and her theory points to the survivors who

(01:02:18):
were struck repeatedly but left alive, and Ruggles says if
a man had done it, they'd be dead. And then
she also cites the small entry points that were cut
into the doors that the killer came through, and in
another twist, she suggests that Mike Peppatone's widow, one of
the victim's widows, and the man she shot were in

(01:02:40):
on these murders together and that they were lovers and
that she framed him basically to inherit everything.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
I also have a theory which I bring up any
time I have the opportunity to, which is based on
the book The Man on the Train, my favorite true
crime book. And what's crazy is there's all ready theories,
and I mention it in the episode that one of
the theories is it might have been a drifter or
an immigrant, which is a weird racist thing from the

(01:03:09):
pass where it's like it was a drifter, Yeah, a
fully American drifter traveling by train between towns and the
Man on the train. Please read the book if you haven't,
but like it fits perfectly into the timeline, the m
O all the different things of the Man on the Train.
I know you love that one, and it's so fascinating. Yeah,
just like that idea that there's one guy doing all

(01:03:31):
these horrible things and that it can be traced together.
I mean, it's just it's so crazy, the idea. Also
just an axe murderer going unfound, the case going unsolved,
like you would think, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
I mean how many, yeah, how many serial murderers and
how many people like it's just so easy to disappear
back then up until like pretty recently. Yeah, just yeah,
you know, it's a scary thought.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Jump on a train dragging your bloody axe behind you.
You'll be fine. It's insane, all right. So let's now
get into Georgia's story from this episode, it's about William
Bradford Bishop. We're talking about the lights being depressing randomly.
We had a pause. Yeah, we have to have a

(01:04:19):
human brain.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
And I made Steven turn the kitchen lights on because
it's dusk, which depresses the shit out of me. Yeah,
I was saying that it's you know what gets me
is I have a friend who has that same thing
where he has a whole system if he has to
go around the house and turn off everything on, like
when the sun is beginning to go down too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
It's not even like when it's down. I have the
opposite thing of when I get up in the morning,
if there's a lamp on it, it's that thing. Why
are we even doing this feeling where it's like no
one turned the lights off last night, like no one's
minding the shop. Feeling that makes me like it never
got shut down.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Yes, I feel the same way about when I wake
up and come out in the house is messy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
What's funny about that I was talking about that is
when therapy the other day we kind of paste it
like piece it together. That that might be why between
like three o'clock and seven o'clock, I always want to
go have a drink and like have happy hour, like.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Pick fence up from work and we go have a drink.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
And it's like I want to make this part a
celebration because but then after that, I'm fine.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Can I just put out a suggestion that you've probably
already talked about, which is three o'clock and a seven
o'clock is the latch key time where you're home by
yourself after school before anybody gets home from work.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
That's exactly it. Yeah, yeah, it's a rough time. Yeah,
it's total latch key watch key shit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Yeah that to me, that time is like three to
seven is all about watching TV. I'm not interested in watching,
but we won't not watch TV, like if there's nothing on.
Back in the time where there was times where there
was nothing on, but we'd still just sit there and
force ourselves to watch, like Mother's Star Trek. Yes, it
was always reruns a Star Trek, which my sister and

(01:06:00):
I didn't like, so we were like, well there's nothing
else on, what's on?

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Watch?

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
And now I'm like an expert because of that. I've
seen all of them fifteen Tons.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah, I've seen a fucking shit ton Next Generation. Oh,
every episode I've seen.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
It seems like everything in adult life is just ways
of kind of trying to give the child at that
time a little bit of a bottle.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
And like shut the fuck up. I mean, well, that's
why I like drinking booze or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
It's like everybody has a thing, but you're just kind
of it's almost like you're trying to go back and
be like, somebody should have been here and given you this. Oh,
somebody should have like you know what I mean, somebody
should have come and rubbed your back a little bit,
made you actual food.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
And that's my that's a lot of my therapy is Yeah,
is that same sers Yeah, it's the shit that, like
your fucking patterns that you keep repeating until adulthood in
some weird way that I'm now trying to like, you're
now doing your best to fucking break. Yeah, but it
feels fraudulent, it doesn't. It feels like everything is going

(01:07:00):
to fall apart, apart all the time, hanging by a
straight time. That's why we like podcasts fucking Murder because
that's truth, that is true.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
That's fucking preaching it truth.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Okay, speaking of Hey Karen, are you ready for a
family annihilator. Yes, ready for William Bradford Bishop. Ooh okay, Oh,
Bill Bishop from down the street, Billy.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Bish, Bill Bish real bad bish.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
Did I say that right? No, Bill Bradbish Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Anyways, on the morning of March first, nineteen seventy six,
in good old Bethesda, Maryland, William Bradford Bishop, who's a
thirty nine year old Yale graduate, and.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
My god, say that with more disdaining? Did I say it?
Yale graduate? I didn't even do that on purpose? College?
You think you're better than me? Fucking college? Fucking Oh,
you're know better than me because you fucking I went
to school with divy on it. Oh you're a alely graduate.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
In the United States, foreign service officer learns that he
is not getting the promotion that he expected. He tells
his secretary he might be getting the flu and leaves work.
He withdraws four hundred dollars from his bank, drives to
Sears and buys a gas can and a sledgehammer. Uh oh,

(01:08:27):
a sledgehammer or a ball peen hammer, which you've mentioned before,
and I had no idea what it was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
The sled sledgehammers are big and baalpen hammers are normal hammers,
I believe.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
So, I think you're right. So I don't know how
those could have been Anyways. He also buys a shovel
and a pitchfork. Then he heads home to his wife, mother,
and three children.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Now, if you're working at that, seers, you're like, I
think this guy might be starting his own hardware store
using our stuff. Yeah. Going home in the garden about
he wants to mark his name down, Yeah, something, make
a list. Yeah, just just follow him home and make
sure that he doesn't someone do something annihilate the next day.
So the next he does all that shit the next day.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
About a six hour drive from Bethesda and about five
miles from Columbia, North Carolina, and a wooded, swampy forest area,
a forest ranger's dispatch to an area where smoke is
rising from the trees.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
There he finds five burned bodies.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Oh, the burned bodies aren't identified for a week until
a neighbor of the Bishops calls the police worried that
he hadn't seen the family in a week. When the
police enter the Bradford home, they find a blood bath,
with spattered blood on the floors and walls, and the
children's room is covered ceiling to floor in blood. Ooh,

(01:09:47):
and it's then that the shovel from the scene of
the burning bodies is traced back to a hard work
store in Bethesda, and the police make the connection.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
You mean us Ears, sorry, yours robuting company at the time,
We're going to be specific. It is actually Tugley's Sears
roback in nineteen seventy seven. You know name thing? I mean? Yeah,
all right. So police think that Bradford killed his wife,
who was his high school sweetheart, Annette, first, followed by

(01:10:16):
his mother, Lobella, who was returning home from walking the
family's golden retriever Leo's spoiler alert, Leo's okay, oh good, okay,
Mom and wife so far dead, it's very much dead.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Bludgend bad, bad, bad, bludgeoned as fuck. Then he kills
his three boys. Fifteen year old Brad, ten year old Brunton,
and five year old Jeffrey were killed while they slept
in their beds in an upstairs bedroom, all of them bludgeoned.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Here's a fucking horrifying part.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
The detective says that in his twelve years as an officer,
it was one of the worst. It was the worst
crime scene he had ever observed, and he notes that
there were hammer marks on the ceiling above the top
bunk bed in one of the boy's bedrooms, which told
how many times and howiously Bishop had struck his son
so in the like back and then blow he hits

(01:11:06):
the ceiling.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Yeah, so a massive manhunt ensues for Bishop is. The
family station wagon that was used to transport the bodies
to be burned was found abandoned a parking lot hundreds
of miles west from where the bodies were found, and
Bishop's also identified by the clerk of sporting goods store

(01:11:30):
in Jacksonville, North Carolina, using his credit card to purchase
Congress shoes the same day that the bodies were found.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Was he coming to Silver Lake? I know? I added
that because I just thought it was so oh that detailed. Thought, yeah,
like we were making the same joke. Oh, I got that. Yeah,
that's what it's.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Some some articles said ten of shoes, and I'm like, no, converse,
that's like a specific thing because we've all owned them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Yeah, that's right. And also it sounds like because he
was did you say he was in the navy or something?
He he's some kind of military guy, so he's trying
to play different character. Sure, he's blending in hippie shit,
he's trying to bring his hippy ship to the West coast. Yeah,
or be a skater, and that man turned.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Out to me. Yeah, I can't think of anyone because
I don't know Tony. I say Peralta, oh say Pta shit,
and there we go.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Stephen, I'm a poser. I'm a poser. Supposer. You're not
posing to be a fucking skating I'm trying to make
people think I skate. Hey, bro okay, Colmer shoes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Same day the bodies are found, and it's also said
that he had the dog on a leash with him,
so he didn't And when I first read this whole article,
it was that the dog was killed too, and I'm like,
people are not going to fucking like that. But the
dog is on a leash and he seems to be okay.
After that sighting, the trail goes cold. And since Bishop
spoke six languages fluently, knew how to fly a plane,

(01:12:56):
and had lived throughout the world, and possibly had fake
id's because of his work at the State Department, finding
him didn't look good. Law enforcement tried to get his
psychotherapy records from his shrink, who Bishop had been seeing
once or twice a week for five years, but the
shrink refused, saying, you know, doctor patient privilege. But it's
been said that the doctor was so shaken by Bishop's

(01:13:18):
crime that he quit his practice, which is can you
imagine not spatting that for years, or having spotted it
and not doubt anything about it?

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Like, that's horrible? What's worse? I think? Yeah? Uh yeah,
not having done anything about it, like thinking that you
were wrong or doubting yourself yeah or something.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Or just being like am I But after five years,
I feel like five years of you just have to
be If you can manipulate a psychotherapist for five years,
you're some fucking craziness.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Yeah. Also, if he was a military man, I bet
you he wasn't all that forthcoming. Isn't that kind of
a personality trait of you're not really supposed to be
that way in the military.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Well that's funny that you say that, because I read
something that said that if if you were in whatever
rank he was in and you were going to psychotherapy,
that was grounds for dismissal. Oh shit, So on top
of that, he probably wasn't didn't also want to be like, yeah,
and I want to runder my family, so like it
couldn't even get out that he was in there.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Whoa, So that's so fucked up. It's so fucked up.
Oh so getting help for being in like a conflict
based business right where like you could have PTSD for
whatever reason, you're not you cannot be in there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Or you're traveling the fucking world and your family's home
and there's it's rough at home, or you have money issues.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
It can't be like that anymore. Or you got left
at home between three and seven every goddamn day of
the week, like you were just some sort.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
Of and you had no idea what time your parents
were coming home, and you were sick of peanut butter sandwiches.
You were needing so much toast that you felt so toast. God,
we ate a lot of toast. We ate so much toast,
so much cheese toasted. This is one of my favorite things.
But if, of course, my brother would eat all the
fucking cheese in the house, so it would be peanut.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Butter toes we would do. Uh. My sister got really
into making case das. But she wouldn't make me one
that was you know, anything she could pull away, anything
she could hold over me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Casey d at that point was a tortilla with a
slice of American cheese in the microwave for a minute, Yes,
and then you crunched it clothes. Yeah, she would get
get fancy and put it in a pan. Oh she
thinks she's fucking yeah, chucking Julia Child.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
She thought she was going for it, and I was like,
clear the area. I'm trying to butter some crackers, like
basically crackers. I love it stacking up buttered crackers and
then drinking seven up and it's just based on a
whole one in your take.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah, yeah, I have so many feelings. Yeah, right now,
all right. So on March nineteenth, nineteen seventy six, a
grand jury indicts Bishop on five counts of first degree murder.
But to this day, Karen Bishop has never been found.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Whoa yep. So there's this photo.

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
Of him from when he was young, but they all
show and he looks a little bit like Lee Harvey
Oswald meets.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Joan Belushi if you can picture that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Oh, it's weird, Like you're kind of like he's kind
of hot, but then he has this weird like smug,
like tight close smile that looks creepy since you know
what he did. And then they made one of those
busts of him of like what he would look like
if he were older, and it's super creepy as well.
And he I'm sure that he's Hugh Heffner, like it's Hugh.

(01:16:26):
It's so, it's Hugh bucking Heffner. He's the bust. You
can you pull that up. It's a William Bradford Bishop bust.
It's just a cover of Playboy magazine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Stephen, No one now h Hefner's picture. He just pulls
that up. Uh, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
So there have been three credible sightings of Bishop. One
was in July nineteen seventy eight. A Swedish woman who
had worked with Bishop before the murders said she spotted him.
Steven's got it right, am I right? I mean, oh no, Luisa,
it's so it looks like is it Franklin Angela. No,
he's the guy that always plays like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
A He's just like hey kid, hilarry right. Yes, he's
missing exactly, like he's missing like the bathrobe. Yeah. And
that's it. Yeah, he's like if Hugh Hevner had a
Trucker brother. Yeah, that's what that guy looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Cravy okayly ninety's any Swedish woman who had worked with
him prior to the murders. She said she spotted him
twice in a public park in Stockholm, Sweden, when in
a span of a week, and she stated that she
was absolutely certain that it was Bishop then. And this
is interesting because it's all people who knew him, you know.

(01:17:40):
So in July nineteen seventy nine, he was reported to
have been seen by a former US State Department colleague
in a restroom in Sorrento, Italy. The colleague greeted him
who had who said? And he said he was bearded.
He had personally believed to be Bishop eyed eye, and
he asked the man impulsively, Hey, you're rad Bishop, aren't you.

(01:18:01):
The man panicked, suddenly responding in a distinctly American accent, saying,
oh God no, and then he ran swiftly out of
the restroom and fled. But he started shaking and panicking
when he asked, this is all like kind of confirmed
that these could actually be sightings. It wasn't just like
random sta like hokey bullshit on September nineteenth.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
It was a little it was kind of ian.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
Yeah, it wasn't on Solved Mysteries, but it was, you know,
all right on September nineteenth. I'm sure this was on
Solved Mysteries too. On September nineteenth, nineteen ninety four, in Basel, Switzerland,
a neighbor who had known a bishop and his family
in Bethesda reports that she had seen Bishop from a
few feet away while on vacation.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
The neighbor described Bishop as.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
Well groomed, so all people who knew him well enough
to like recognize him then, And I thought this was
so exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
A John Doe, who was struck by a car while walking.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
Down a highway in nineteen eighty one, who was a
person who appeared to be homeless, ended up getting exhumed
after a local resident thought that the bust of Bishop
looked like this dough and I fucking lost my line.
It looks so much like him that you are sure
it's him, and it's fucking not. But I think they
fucked up the DNA test because it's fucking him.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Wow. There's also, of course, been talk of Bishop being
a victim of the MK ultra mind control experienced by
the CIA that went awry, causing him to kill his family,
which is like, Okay, is that the right time frame?
The sixties seventies? Yeah, I guess so. Yah. I feel
like they dosed a lot of people on acid back then, right,

(01:19:39):
I think so. But that's so close to the eighties.
I feel like it was shut down by then. But
I mean, look, if people theorize that it's because it's
it wasn't and also is a secret. I mean, Karen
government only still going on. It's suis day. Yeah, Stephen
is an MK ultra something. That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
Totally what it is, you're like, And his mustache is
a fucking recording device. It's like, no, because no matter
how much we make fun of it, he won't shave it.
So up in there he fucking sets the two hugest
microphones up every time.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
But mustache is the recording device because they're all fake.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
You call, you should hear the ship, we say when
it's not recording, and the ship we actually make him
edit out.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
That's like we are Russian operative spies. It's true. H Well,
I do love them. Kald Is, if you know, somebody
was asking if something could get solved. Somebody was asking
us that the other day, like conversationally, and it's always
like we always say like John Benet or blah blah
blah whatever. But then just thinking about that, like I

(01:20:40):
would love the real deal report on m kill, the
list of things that have happened because of it. Yeah,
that's good one like the real you know, there was
like the one guy that they the family's like, there's
no way he would have committed suicide, and it was
like he jumped out of a window.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Right, and there was I mean there's a million of those. Yeah,
and they're always like that would be good.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Yeah, it's so fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
It's also like it's easy though, you know what I mean,
Like it's one of those things where it's like, oh,
she was a runaway.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
It's like, no, it's much more.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
It's much more simple than that or something yeah, or
that's simple okay, and it was blah blah blah. I
think it's more likely that he was depressed, he was
also having financial trouble, and that he was a fucking dick.
If he were still alive today, he would be eighty
years old. Oh so he could still be alive. Yeah,
so everyone go go find Hugh Hoffner's creepy brother.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
So, god, that's interesting to be guilty of a crime
and run to Stockholm, Sweden and still run into someone
that you know, because like how annoying is that?

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
And because he was in the military, he probably went
to military ish places, right, Like when he places he
knew from having gone there before from for his job.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
You think he wouldn't though, because because then people would
recognize him there.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Yeah, of all the places you would up the list. Okay,
this guy ran, where'd you go? He'd went to al
He went to Califulia. People go always go west instead
he went east, and then he went to a place
where like Stockholm, Sweden is just like nobody really you
would just blend.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
Yeah, there's a lot of places you could like and
you know, it was the time when like you could
you didn't need a passport or you know, your name
didn't even have to be on the ticket. And yeah,
and he had a week's start because they didn't a
week had headn't start, Yeah, because you know, they didn't
identify the bodies until them. Yeah, he was all free
and clear what a creep. He fucking he didn't just

(01:22:32):
murder them and leave their bodies. He murdered them, drove
six hours away, dug a fucking shallow hole, and put
the gasoline that he had bought that day on the
bodies and lit them.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
His mom, his high school sweetheart, and his three children.
That's almost the same as John List. It's so much
like John List, except and not to say my guy
was better than your guy, but John List shot everybody
in the back of that Nobody knew anything was happening.
He just took him out from behind.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
I think he might have as well, if you're gonna
back in, well, No, I think like yours has a
good I guess they both had good closures where it's
like the.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
Money was in the ceiling the whole time. I know
John Lyss No, but this one I'm saying it's the
murder is so much more personal and awful and like,
you know, hammermarks ceiling type of shit. You're not like
trying to end it quick. Yeah, what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
But he waited till they were sleeping. He didn't come
home until they were sleep and the mom was his
mom was on a walk with the dog that he
that she do every night. It's just not You can't
find a lot of details about how it happened either,
which is like, there's no like in this room, this
happened while his wife was cooking or whatever the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
Also, what was he like, just like if you were
in the cafeteria at the same time, was do you
think he was like clearly one of those like a
closed fist of a person. Do you think it was
all like deep still rutters run deep and he was
just like chill and nothing was going on.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
There was not a single thing that I saw that
was like and you always see this. Everyone said he
was such a great guy, and everyone's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
Like, so I don't think he was. He could have
been tightly wound.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Yeah, I don't think people weren't. Like we were so surprised, right,
No one said that, Yeah, as far as I could tell. Yeah,
so that is family Annihilator William Bradford Bishop.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Wow, Bill Bishop. Yeah, that's like I've never heard of
that guy, and it's truly awful. Yeah. Also, once you
kill them, you're gonna run anyway. Why do you have
to burn the bodies? You got that head start, But
like that's just one chore you don't have to do.
Like you you've killed your whole family. They're probably not

(01:24:44):
gonna get fine found for a week. But I mean,
like either way, it's it's not like you killed one
member of your family and everyone else doesn't know what's
happening or something. It's like you've taken out an entire
family unit. People are gonna catch on no matter what
the state of their corpses is. Yeah, it's so fucked up.
I mean, it's too much.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
It's pretty amazing that they were able to actually identify
the bodies, because if he hadn't left that shovel behind,
they would have never gone. They would have never talked
to Bethesda, Maryland, because they identified it as one of
two hardware stores in Bethesda, and it was hundreds of
miles away, right he said, six hours away or something.

(01:25:24):
So if he hadn't kind of fucked up and left
a shovel behind, they would have never been traced to
each other, which is probably his eye. Yeah, maybe he
was probably his I don't think he wanted to get caught. No,
you know, burn bodies. You specifically don't want to get
caught if you burned bodies. It's just he did everything
the worst way possible.

Speaker 2 (01:25:43):
He really did, and he was never fucking found and
which is so disappointing. Yeah, but he got that military edge.
He's he's like a Born esque. He's a Jason Bourne type.
Bad born. Yeah, bad born. And we're back. Are there
any updates for this case? I do have some updates.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
The authorities are still looking for William Bradford Bishop, which
is wild.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
In twenty twenty one, a North Carolina woman named Kathy
Gilcrest made headlines when her twenty three and meters test
led her to believe that Bishop was her biological father.
Can you even imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
Kathy was born before Bishop's murdered children were born. She
was adopted as a baby and never knew her biological parents.
The FBI later confirmed that their DNA matched. I mean,
like so FBI agents have wondered if Bishop's hidden pass
could play into his motive for the murders, which remains elusive,
and expressed hope that Kathy's discovery would renew interest in

(01:26:47):
this case and drum up leads.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
I mean, that's the wildest kind of like futuristic twist
for this where totally you're just trying to find out
if you have cousins in the next town over right,
and it's like us, what, your father is a family annihilator? Yeah,
that's a oh.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Maybe I didn't want to know everything kind of moment,
I would think, But.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
That kind of weird coincidence or whatever they're calling it
in the press. If that's what it takes to renew
interest and try to figure it out. If they can
find this guy, then great, definitely. Now we're going to
let you guys listen to the recurring theme that we
were doing back in twenty seventeen of good things of
the week.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
Hey, one positive thing would happens, I'll get out of there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
What about.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
So we try to end this with something positive because
we don't want to end on a family annihilator.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
A thing that makes us happy, A thing that we like, Yeah,
a thing that we've noticed lately that's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
Yeah, you just shook your head terrifyingly at me. Mine
is that because three o'clock to seven o'clock is so
hard for what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
I hate neighbors? Well, that was creepy. They just moved in,
so they're like putting putting ships up and shit podcasting. Also,
it just was so light. It was really creepy. Yeah,
they're trying to be quiet. Okay, so oh yeah, okay,
so from three to seven. So it's hard for me.
So the thing I've been doing this past week to

(01:28:22):
try to like make it positive to me. Scare the
ship up hi a little girl.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
The thing I've been laying out at the pool oh,
in the sun, and it's been fucking phenomenal. Oh that's good,
making me so happy and so like, like I feel
like I'm in paradise.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
That's really good. I wonder if you had maybe a
little vitamin D deficiency and you need a little sunlight,
you little what do they call it weather depression or yeah, definitely,
And it's just this thing of like, Okay, here's celebrating
life in a different way than alcohol and charcotery.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Yes, which man still sounds so much better, but whatever.
Uh well, it's definitely faster, but it's so relaxing when
you're outside. I've been actually sitting outside at my house too, Hice.
It's just so relaxing and it's been mine Okay, I
guess mine will be. I walked my dogs in my
neighbor the neighborhood kind of near me, which is nice.

(01:29:19):
Last night and it was as if all the jasmine
in the whole neighborhood bloomed at one time. I know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
It was crazy. It's walking around a neighborhood and it
smelled like the inside of a Flora's shop. Was one
of the weirdest things of all times.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
There's this moment in la and it's such a quick
moment where all the jasmine blooms, and it only happens
for like a very short time during the year, and
it's fucking fabulous.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
It's crazy. And when you walk like I was coming
home from something and from my from like the lift
to the front door, I was the smell was so
beautiful and strong. I was like, I have to walk
my dogs right now, like I need to be out
in this air. I love that. It's very cool. Good one.
And also because I've been in my house doing nothing

(01:30:03):
but like binge watching TV and cleaning the walls and
wiping down walls. The difference it makes when your walls
are clean.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
I just highly recommend I don't think about it until
someone else does it, that you pay them to do
it and they're like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
But also when you get one of those magic erasers.
They really do work. I know, I love it. What's it?
A mister Clean thing? Yeah? Or you can get a
target brand. It's like a little bleach sponge. It's a
white sponge that when you touch it to things, it
just makes marks and nicks and shitty looking things go away.
I bet it's made of asbestos. It I hold it
in my hand for like hours at a time. Let

(01:30:37):
all of this is leeching into my system. You know what,
maybe I'll clean it out a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:30:41):
I mean the days are going to come before you
can die of asbestos poisoning, probably, right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
What if the magic eraser is the new green juice
and that's the way to detox is just a magic erase?
Both hands? Yeah, every morning, I'm just picturing that. Okay,
we're back.

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
I would love to go back to what are my
thirty seven year old Georgia and tell her to get
the fuck out of the sun.

Speaker 2 (01:31:07):
What is she doing why, Georgia. No, I'm just gonna
lay out for four hours and see if it helps
me at anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
I don't put any emotion on because you want to
get the rays and the Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
Georgia.

Speaker 1 (01:31:18):
Stop it, you guys listen to your future self. Do
not lay out in the sun for long periods of time,
at least.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
I mean, I mean not every day. You gotta really,
you gotta watch that for sure, honey. Also, it's too
bad we couldn't have done some sort of integration with
the Magic Eraser people, because I really I think I
sold a couple with that the way I endorse that thing.
Hey man, it's not too late.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
I fucking love a Magic Erase afternoon of just slowly
walking around the house with a book on my headphones.
You just you notice so many things you never notice.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
It's so relaxing. Check your door jam, your door jams
and near knob of doors. It's wild how gross those areas.
Get Check your light switches. It's oh the baseboards. I mean,
I mean, you're discussed. You are disgusting, and so are we.
Magic Eraser. That's our that's our promo. Yeah, that's right. Okay,

(01:32:18):
So now that we're here at the end, we're going
to rename this episode. Although I'm going to make an
argument this is one of the rare ones where I'm like,
this is the best name we could possibly come up with.
I don't know if we get better than jazz. It jazz,
it's pretty good. Thousand Island would work like animal style. Yeah,
some clothes and island on it, okay. Also saying you

(01:32:38):
can't drop a line in confession. You have to know
all your pairs. You can't. You can't screw up your
lines in confession. You have to know every single Hail Mary,
every single our father. That seems too hard. It's really hard.
It was very stressful in like third grade, knowing you
had to memorize that word for word, at least in
like Hebrew prayers.

Speaker 1 (01:32:56):
You can fake it because you can just you can
fake heep.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
Yeah, you like make turn the accent on a little stronger.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
Well, if you're all singing it together, you can kind
of just say gibberish and no one knows that you
don't know how to say the cottish.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
So you're just reale barbing your way through the cottish.
That's wrong. I'm telling I don't go to hell, so
it's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
We can also call it he took an oath. You know,
that's a good one. Barber oath. That's right, the barber oath. Yeah, well,
that's it. We've given you all the options that you're
ever going to get and you're going to pick jazz
it anyway because it's the best title.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
And we're going to let Karen and Georgia from twenty
seventeen and Elvis and me me say me say our goodbyes.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
I think I can get me me to me out
as wait. Thanks for listening, Thank you so much for listening.
You guys are the best. We appreciate you your support
and having fun with us, and we want you to
stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 3 (01:33:59):
Me what the keep.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
Made me say it? Maybe one cookie? Look at me me?

Speaker 3 (01:34:10):
She come on, Yes, I talked over You could kind
of publish it. Elis know Elis you want to cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Yeah, that's how it's done.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
Bye.

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 60: Jazz It

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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