Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 63: Steven's Tuxedo - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, wo and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That's right. Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with
all new commentary, updates and insights. You are welcome. Today
we're recapping episodes sixty three.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
We're getting so close to one hundred, which we named
Steven's Textedo.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
This episode came out April sixth, twenty seventeen, just one
hundred years ago.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Let's listen to the intro of episode sixty three, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I don't like Stephen is looking at his knobs very concern,
intently and concern, almost like a DJ. He did look
like Steve Oki kind of you looks like a Las
Vegas DJ, being like, what about the trouble? That's what
about the bass? Have you done any DJing? Stephen in Las.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Vegas can't say have But it's the dream, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Is that? Is that where you're aiming?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Is that the goal to be on one of those
billboards for.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yes, DJ Steve? What would what would you? What's the
better DJ name for Steven?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
DJ Mustache, DJ Stash, oh sh DJ Stash coming this fall? Yeah?
What if it's Elvis and Stephen Elvis is.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Don't to shove Elvis into this. This is Stephen's project
for Las Vegas. Sorry, Steve. Elvis gets up and the
moves like scratches the record himself.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Oh Elvis, anything to say about that?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
He came up to the mic and then on.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
The night he's about to fucking Elvis is the MC
with a lot of intent. Stephen is the DJ Elvis MCI.
Speaking of Elvis and Stephen, we have a corrections corner
because last week, glaringly missing from the episode was both
Stephen and Elvis. Because Steven thinks he can take a
fucking vacation. I didn't fucking walk away from this thing

(02:18):
that we were going to give you a shit about it. Steven,
the unpaid intern that does the most work of anyone
on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
He thinks he can go visit his mother, he can
visit family, that he can stay behind in Portland. Nope,
do whatever he wants in Portland.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Don't worry.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
He begged us to come back and we were like,
we'll talk, we'll talk it through. Yeah, so this is
his trial episode.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, and Elvis like revolted because he was like, well so,
well that means we recorded at the Feral Audio Studios.
And like when I got there, I was like, wait
a minute, Elvis isn't here. So he did. He wasn't
on either, But don't worry. He's fine.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
A lot of concern, a lot of social media concerned
for Elvis. He's very healthy. He's here in front of us,
flicking his tail around as we speak. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
And they were like, are Georgia and Karen okay because
they're not yelling at Steve in this episode. Yeah, They're like,
this is all very uncomfortable, but everyone's fine.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Somebody was like, does your mom yell at you?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Like, Karen, do you miss it?

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Of course, did you miss getting reprimanded for shit that
you had nothing to do it for?

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Shit?

Speaker 2 (03:25):
That is clearly our fault.

Speaker 5 (03:28):
I did do the I did do my favorite word
of related activity I sent you guys. I went to
Klein Falls, which is the subject of one of the
live yes, which was like it was eerie because I
had never done anything like that, like visited the site
of something.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
But my mom is like, oh, it's just up the
road from where I live.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
Like, okay, I guess I'll take pictures because people might
want to see this, But.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
It changes the view when you know that someone got
fucking bludgeond by a hatchet there, so crazy. Yeah, well,
welcome back, Stephen.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, I was glad to We're glad you're back. Yeah,
We're glad you're back. I do have a thing that
it's neither it's a new corner, but it's almost like
an announcement corner. But it just feels like I've heard
from enough people online. You and I have talked about
it enough, so this feels like a thing that just
needs to be said, which is more like this. We

(04:22):
love touring, We love doing live shows. We have the
best time. It is such an amazing thing to come
out to a wall of energy and people's positivity. It's
the best. Ninety nine percent of the people that go
to our shows and participate in our shows are lovely,

(04:43):
joyous people who are having a great time. We heard
from a bunch of people from Portland who didn't have
the best time and a couple of those shows because
there were people around them that were yelling so much
at us the entire show. And there has been a
thought that has been floated in the community that we

(05:04):
like it when people yell at us from the audience
during the show, because then it's a chance for me
to yell at people or for us to make jokes
about it, and just for corrections, just no hard feelings.
We've always had a great time, we will continue to
have a great time, but just so you know, we
don't like it when you yell at us at all

(05:25):
during the show. And it's gotten to a point now
where we just have to completely ignore people. There was
a show in Portland that was crazy. There were people
in the audience that were yelling at us literally the
entire time, and it was there are people around them
bumming out. So what do we do.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
We can't if we say something to them then that
they'll keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
But we don't say anything.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
We don't say anything.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
What we do is this, we let people know that
we love your energy, that we love that you want
to participate. But please don't tell yourself we want you
to yell at us, because that is not true at all.
It's never been true. And for me being a stand
up comic for twenty years, when you get a heckler
in an audience, you shut the heckler down because that's

(06:13):
how you perform a show of comedy, that's how you
keep in control of the crowd, but you don't want
to be heckled. So just because comedy comes out of it,
it doesn't mean that's a positive experience for anybody. And
it certainly ruins the time of the people around you.
Like there was a couple of people during one of
those shows and it was just constant commentary the whole time,

(06:36):
and it's not pleasant, and we now just ignore.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
It as someone is kind of new at this whole
on stage thing. It's really distracting to keep being distracted
by this when I'm trying to like concentrate on being
a good performer and telling my story well and not
being nervous and you know, sitting up straight, not accidentally
flashing my underwear, and you know.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, and we really have work. It's not like anyone
can say this is any kind of like we're not
doing crowd work. We're especially by the time we sit
down and we're reading our stories, we have a presentation
that we want to give to everybody, and that everybody
wants to hear. At ninety nine point five percent of
the people in the room want to hear what we're saying.

(07:20):
So if you are the person that got drunk and
couldn't stop yelling or you thought it would be funny
to yell or talk to us. Just know, no, you know,
no one's mad at you. Everything's fine. But yeah, we
absolutely don't want that to be happening. So just as clarity,
it seems like there was people in the audience in

(07:41):
Portland who were upset because they paid good money and
they waited just as long, and they're just as big
of a fan as anybody going crazy who can't control
themselves and yell the whole time. Well, there's people around
you who are just as big of a fan, and
yet they're controlling themselves. We understand where it's coming from.
And believe me, I saw when I saw the kids
in the hall live at the UCLA Theater, I wanted

(08:05):
to scream chicken lady the entire time. I wanted them
to know what I like. I wanted them to know
what was in my mind and heart. I wanted them
to understand how you were. Yeah, because there's a big
deal to me, and it meant a lot to me.
So honestly, the fact that there are people having those
feelings toward us, it's my dream come true. It's it's
we take it the way you mean it, but we

(08:27):
would love to not have to deal with that. You
being there is enough.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Can I do new podcasts that I like Corner?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Please? But I'm worried.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Okay, So I found this. I found this podcast because
I was We're going to Milwaukee and I was doing
a lot of research into Milwaukee murders. So stop me
if you're working on this.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh I'm not you.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
I'm gonna stop you by telling you I'm not working
on anything, So go for it. Great. So I found
this one because it was such an interesting story, and
I'm like, how have I never heard about this before?
And then I, as I do with every story that
I want to read, I put in the name and
podcasts because I don't want like Sword and Scale to
have done it a week ago. And I seemed like
a sucking asshole. So I did this one. And I

(09:11):
found this podcast called Unsolved, and it's about this kidnapping
and murder of this kid named John Zira back in
nineteen seventy six, and they never found the.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Guy, but they maybe found this.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
There's all these suspects and of course it's just like
the Johnny Gosh story where it's like, look how bad.
This was bungled because we didn't know how to rEFInd
people and there's two different districts and they interviewed people
and didn't follow through. And then this guy later turns
out to be this child moluster and is it him?
Isn't it him? Is it not him? But it's a

(09:48):
good podcast, and it's every episode is really short, and
it's by another awesome female investigative journalist, which I really
stoked that there's so many of those lately, so many,
and you know, so it gives it a little bit
of Yeah, so it's a good one. So unsolved, unsolved.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
And then you were telling me about one that I
started listening to called.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Hollywood and Crime. Yeah, what's that one? Okay, So Hollywood
and Crime is about And I did a thing finally,
I thought, I pre thought it out and downloaded all
the episodes before I got on the plane. So I
don't do that. It makes me crazy. You get on
the plane, You're like, fine, I'll listen to the thing.
Now you haven't downloaded it. You can't. That being said,

(10:31):
see as we grow and change, I pre downloaded eight
episodes of Hollywood and Crime. So proud, filled with pride,
and what it is is during the Black Dahlia murder,
which happened in nineteen forty four, four, six, nine something

(10:52):
seven in the forties. It definitely happened in the forties.
Steven will jump on it. But the interesting thing is
there were other female murder mutilations around Los Angeles at
the same time that people don't talk about, and so
it strings together all of these different cases and it's

(11:15):
unbelievable and how they're related.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
I only listened to like ten minutes of the first
episode and already was like they both worked at the
same fucking nightclub.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yes, there was definitely at least I'm I think. I
was up to the fourth episode and I'm like, there's
one hundred percent like a slashy face killer in Los Angeles,
And it was because.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
It was their slashy face killer, the slashy face killer
world War two. They don't That's the thing about it.
I was thinking, is like, there's so much shift during
World War Two that nobody paid attention to because the
news was filled with World War two.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
World War two constantly, and most the boys were being
shipped out and coming back and that whole thing around.
There was a thing called the Hollywood Canteen, which was
where the Formosa down on Formosa I think, or somewhere
in Hollywood. People wheretive duty soldiers would go and they
would get to dance with actresses like Betty Davis used

(12:06):
to run it. And so you could go there and
like I think that alcohol wasn't allowed, and you couldn't
like have any romantic like romance wasn't going to be like.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
You'd pay for a slow dance or any kind of dance.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, I don't think you had to pay because because
you were That was the whole idea, is like if
you're active duty but you're on leave, you can come
to the Hollywood Canteen and like basically party with celebrities
and it's all on us.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
And all the ladies thought they were like doing a
service for this serviceman. That's right, and it was. And
she and UHL went there.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Elizabeth Smart, Nope, Elizabeth Short, God, I now, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
It's the mix of like, wait, one of those is
right as modern short is old.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Right. Uh she went there, and so did a couple
of these victims. One of them is called the bathtub
It was called the Bathtub Murder and was this woman
who had a lot of money, this young woman. She
went to the canteen a lot and she was found
in a bathtub full of bloody water and her face.

(13:11):
I believe her face was cut.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Because Elizabeth Short was drained of blood and they thought
it was done and they surmised it was done in
a bathtub, right.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I think so, or they definitely know it was not.
It was a They had her somewhere for a long time, right.
That's the horrible part of that murder is that she
was tortured for a long time. And the person that
killed her and prob may have killed these other women,
is the worst serial killer ever and they never caught it.

(13:41):
And if they're not related that it's such an insane
coincidence that these murders were happening all around the same time.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
I hate how normal her autopsy photos are getting. Were
like you click on cold case file or cold cases
and you click on images and it's just a close
up of her face. Have you seen that?

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah? The horrible cutting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
And it's just like you don't even put in like
black dolliamer, you know, like and you see these like
crime scene photos, it's rough and I fucking hate. You know,
I love crime scene photos. I bought a fucking book
called Like crime Scene Photos basically when we were.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
In Portland to prove how much you love crimes.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
I just wanted to prove it. No, but it's actually
I kind of fucked myself over because it was vintage
crime scene photos. So I was like, great, it'll be
like mobs and mobsters and like that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Good outfits.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, it's not. It's horrifying. Oh it's very graphic. Oh no,
it's not late night reading.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
And it's vintage in terms of like it was back
when people would die of horrible things, right, like rabies
or something. Well, there's there are rabies ones. Actually, the
rabies ones are the worst thing of all.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
There's just it's it's it's more like horrors and there's
a description. It's actually I found out it's it's a
like a Los Angeles Police detectives book of his cases
that they turn into like a coffee table book for
people who don't get dates.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Hey, hey watch it. We do fine people that love those.
Vince doesn't want to see it.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
There's a guy with elephantitis the nuts and Vits wanted
to look at that. It's pretty fucking fabulous.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Oh man, Yeah, that's a good book. I mean, I
that's the kind of thing. The reason I don't look
at those pictures anymore is because in the nineties, when
I was, you know, a riot girl or whatever the
hell I thought I was doing, there were lots of
times where we would look through books like that and
it was almost like a contest of like everyone look
at this crazy thing and be like, well, I don't
even care, because Kirk Obain and I've seen things that

(15:39):
I can I still see it in my mind, like
The Childhood Died of Rabies. I can. I can see
it in my mind when I say that it's horrible.
I can't too.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
But for some reason it makes me want to like
consume of it as much as of it as I can,
so that so, you know, I just want to look away.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, yeah, so I know. Hey, speaking that just reminded me.
There is a movie. Have you ever seen that? It's
like kind of a documentary. It's called Wisconsin Death TRIPM. Okay,
it is the best. I don't know, Stephen, have you
seen it?

Speaker 4 (16:12):
No?

Speaker 2 (16:15):
He just did the most hilarious nod no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
It is they took a book. I think it was
just of like the police Blotterer from cities around Wisconsin
in the eighteen hundreds, mid eighteen hundreds, I believe, and
so they just read the stories of what the police,
you know, what they were doing and what the crimes were.
And it's insane because it's just like today, except for

(16:45):
it was in the mid eighteen hundred. So it's like
a boy walked onto into a farm yard and shot
the two people standing there and walked away and they
and when the police arrested him, he said he was bored.
And then there's like mothers who go and drown their
children in the river and all these things that we
think are happening now, and they're just oh, this time

(17:06):
we live in and it's so awful or whatever, and
it's like you gotta watch, you gotta watch Wisconsin Death Trip.
It's just where do they what are the video? What's
the video of the visuals? Are this really awesome? Sepia
toned like b roll that they took all around because
so much of Wisconsin is really nature and farms and
there's you know, so they basically are just if it's

(17:29):
if the crime is about a person walking into a farmyard.
They walk down a road and they get like a
little kid in overalls holding a gun or what, but
they don't. It's not like act it's not total reenactments.
It's just more like to feel yeah, right, and this
is kind of creepy, like a distant white farmhouse, you
know that where it's like it is creepy.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
I want to see that. You don't want to see
I do. Oh, I want to see that that.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
You were like, nope, the farmhouse. Shut me.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
They can't deal with kids and overalls really makes it
really triggers me.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
It's it triggers you about me and grammar.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
School about me. When I was a waitress and I
had to wear fucking overalls where this little cafe in
Santa Monica when I was like nineteen and they required
you to wear overalls?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
What full overalls are like an overall skirt dress.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I think you could do whatever you wanted. But all
I had was like Dickey's overalls.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Was it a gas station restaurant like one of those?

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Like it was country? It was like a country theme,
oh restaurant? Yeah, can we do.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
U? Gift Corner podcast. Yeah, let's yeah, no, no, no, no, okay.
We sent a couple really good presents.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, really quickly. We were opening presents before this sent
to the Polax. Thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Every Day's Christmas, my favorite murder. Yay.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
This is how we love you. This is how to
get us to love you.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
So we got these incredible pins that are like the
enamel pins that everyone loves. One is like a closed switchblade,
so cool, it's so cool. One is a fucking weed board,
a little enamel Ouiji board with a movable what do
they call these the movie part cursor, cursor, old fashioned cursor.
It's a it's a cursor one. And then there's one

(19:11):
that says sweet honesty. One says fuck politeness, which I'm
putting on a leather jacket. One that says slightly spooky,
which I'm guessed we said at some point.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
In our lives, or maybe it's from another true crime
podcast she.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Likes right or he Okay, okay, uh, it says Dear Georgia,
Karen and Stephen, thank you for making the best podcast
in the world. We have no murders to share, but
wanted to gift you guys with some killer pins. Fifty
percent of the proceeds for the sweet Honesty pin goes
to end the backlog. The rest of us are just selfish.
And then it's one of those emojis where it's a
smiley face shrugging, which I love so don't know how

(19:45):
to do what I love.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's a good one.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Thank you all so much by Crystal, Kim and Anna.
And it's the company is called fuck called Memento Mori,
Maury or Meno Mori. Yeah, so and figure those things
out on Etsy because they're really cool.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
There's such nice pins. Yeah, very cool, and we got
a whole box full of them. Thanks you guys, Thanks guys,
nice designs. Good job.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Hi five. All right, let's do let's do the official
nose blowing great and then loving to start.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
I if I were a crafty person, I would send
you in the mail little like five little black tablecloth handkerchiefs.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Okay, it's not gross, so to save your snot it's
super disgusting, but it's a funny joke referencing when you
blew your nose on the tablecloth. No good, no, I
get it now, I get it now. I didn't understand.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Saving your snot is beyond disgusting and makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
But I did blow my nose on a tablecloth in Portland.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
That did happen, so that would be It was pretty
goddamn great. I felt like everyone felt very freed by
that action.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
I was as I was bending down to do it.
I was like, you should be humiliated while you're doing this,
and I didn't.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
No, it's just gone now. It's almost like we're just
breaking down the rules of society. Yeah, fuck you, mom,
come to our live show. You won't believe what we do.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Tricks and things and blowing wise.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Blown to shreds and mine's blown, mines and laws blown.
Uh you were me?

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I don't know me?

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (21:24):
Uh? Oh my gosh, what did Georgia? Yes, because he
did the Gorilla Killer?

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Oh that's right, Okay, I don't remember what I did
last week? Oh I do? No, I don't.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Okay, all right, ready for a serial? I do you
did the Moore's Murders? Right? Crazy? And then someone sent
me a text saying, did you know that the Smith's
song Except for the Little Children is about the Moore's murderers, right,
which you kind of have They say their names in

(21:55):
the song they yeah, Hindley, he calls her Henley and Okay,
oh that's so cool. I'll listen to it.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
That's our anything was on. Are you gonna sue us? Yeah? Yeah,
all right, And we're back and as we're recording this
right now, we're about to go on tour.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
But when this comes out, we'll be on tour. So
I don't know how time works, but.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I mean it's a loop. You've said it many a
time's flat circle. And I do think it's kind of
funny that we're like talking on the episode we're rewinding
right now about the experience that we had in Portland
on a live show. Now we're going to talk about
talking about it. How many circles can we linearly go around?

(22:43):
And I mean one time, it seems like plenty. Yeah,
but this was a major moment in live show history. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
I wonder what number show this was for us, like total,
But Portland was incredible, The audience was great. We like
insisted on going back there of course for this next
tour because of that. You know, there's so many cool
girls with tattoos there. How could we not have a
great time.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
It's hard not to feel like well, I think we
do this in every city we visit where we're like,
these are the real Murderinos, but Portland, of course, and
especially in these early live shows. And I do think
we found out at some point that there was a
drink special that got people especially fucked up. Remember I
think it was like Tall Boys or something. There was
some sort of like in the theater at the bar

(23:31):
thing that people were taking advantage of, and so it
was a little rowdier than I think we are, right,
And then we had to set some ground rules after this.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
So I don't remember what those are, but we're going
to probably try to bring them back this tour.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Well, I mean it's pretty basic. It's like if you've
ever taken one theater acting class, it's like you're not
allowed to get on the stage when other people are
doing a show. That's never been allowed in the history
of entertainment. Just crawling up on stage with your sister.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Oh, actually, when this comes out, like two weeks later
is when we'll be in Portland or three weeks later.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
So oh, it's sold out.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Never mind, Go to my favorite murder dot com, slash
Live and see if there's any tickets left anywhere. I
think like there's always like a little tiny batch of
tickets that comes out at the very end, like right
before the show, because they've been holding tickets for VIPs
or whatever, and so sometimes tickets just happen to become
available at all the shows.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Also, if you go under a bridge night of show,
there's often a guy in a trench coat that can
help you out that we place there. It's it's Stephen Shaved.
Must love that guy.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
I'm still lot fense about whether I should be eating
homemade gifts from fans that bring them to shows, which
I've done in the past, been warned multiple times not to,
but yeah, I love Rice Krispy treats so much.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
And also it's like, these are the girls that are
afraid of the people that do that. They're not the
girls that do it right. But that's a dumb thing
to think about a massive people. That's just that's naive.
It's us telling ourselves a lie. When I was looking
at this and remembered in these next couple rewinds that

(25:15):
we're doing that we had a company like Voodoo Donuts
making us donuts of ourselves and delivering them to the theater,
I was like, why didn't I remember that. That's what
a gift. Yeah, like, what a lovely sentiment.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
What's great about this tour is now we're more social
media savvy. We have a social media person, so we
can actually post all this stuff on social media.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
So make sure you follow us. Yeah, give a little credit.
I mean, we were doing kind of independently here and there.
But the thing about us is you can't accuse us
of being overly organized or planning ahead having followed through.
I mean, you know, just really kind of being in
the place where we're supposed to be an ACTI like,
that's what we're doing. It's like, there's a lot, there's

(25:58):
a lot to this experience. But I feel like a
big part of this whole journey has been the Portland
Live audience, the people that have showed up for us
from day one, real life Portland. We're here to get
sucked up with you, We're here to interact with you.
We want the full, the full experience.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Two of my very last friends in the world are
going to be in the audience because those fucking bitches
insistent on living to Portland. Against me, that's what it
feels like, against me. So I'm excited for that.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, that's very exciting mine too. Jason Lopez will be
there from the gap. Yes, hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
We should have them all like sitting on stage as
like the audience on stage audience.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
I wonder if there is like a special a special balcony.
I remember this theater when we're talking about this Portland show.
It was that theater that was in a building that
used to be a school, yeah, high school or something.
It was so fucking cool.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
It just it felt like we were on like a
teen drama from the nineties. It was amazing.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Oh someone gave us nipple tassels, oh yeah, from the
Strip Club. I have a photo of it. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
I have some photos that I found from old live
shows from back then, including the titty tassels. Oh that
I will give to Shannon to post on social media.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Nice get in.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
So you remember the person who made us who painted
our pets. Mine were on wineglasses and yours were on
Christmas ornaments. Oh yes, I still I do too, Like
there's displayed in my house.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
Are fucking gorgeous. I have a photo of all of those.
I mean, the people give and I think there is
a serious like arts. I mean not to it's like
the true arts of arts and crafts group of people
in Portland. I think there's the people there like, watch
me craft this. This is what I'm really building them up.
They better fucking bring it. We want more and this

(27:46):
is our passive aggressive way of demanding it from the Portland.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well, okay, should we get into it? Because of the
live shows and just because we are so disorganized. This
is the third time in a row that I go first, Yes.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
I love it. What are you gonna do? Well, then
let's get into Georgia's story right now. She tells the
story of the murderer Joseph Edward Duncan, the Third.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Ready for a serial killer? I am real horrible guy.
Uh oh, here we go.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Joseph Edward Duncan, the Third, the Third.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
The way I looked to you when I said that
was born in February twenty on February twenty fifth, nineteen
sixty three, in Tacoma, Washington, and I said that he
looks like the actor Ben Mendelssohn, who was the older
brother from Bloodline. Remember that guy's got kind of a lisp,
and he's like abroad, he's like an actor and he's
kind of well hot bloodline.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Was he the bad one? Yeah, he's the one everyone's
worried about. Yes, that guy's amazing.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, it looks like him, so like creepy skinny. Just
to have an idea, okay, like gangly.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
I like this describing what they look like.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
So in nineteen seventy six, he's fifteen years old and
he commits his first recorded sex crime. He at fifteen,
he rapes a nine year old boy at gun point.
Oh fuck yeah, I said I was going to raves
at fifteen and he was raping children at gun points.

Speaker 6 (29:09):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah. What happened to him?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I don't know, and I can't find a lot of
information on it, Okay, so clearly not something horrible.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, hit his fucking head, I mean, and then he
went to a boys. I mean, it's like they go
to juvie then they get raped.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
It's hugh seems terrible, and their mom like, oh, I
don't want to get as gross as I feel like it.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
I mean, we really could say the worst things in
the world and be right.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Okay, the following I want to say it, but it's
so horrifying that like I.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Say it and then Stephen will bleep it Okay.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
I read somewhere and maybe it was Ted Bundy's mom
or some like some killer's mom that like when he
she would take him to go to the bathroom, she
would pinch his penis as a kid. I think that's
is that edgan So he wouldn't go, I don't know
to like if he didn't do it, she would get
mad at him and pinch and it's like, how do

(30:05):
you not have a sexual fucking statust on your hands? Yes,
on your gross hands, on.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
Your filthy, disgusting hands.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
No, that's horror fi penis pinching hands.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
I'm pretty sure that's ed Gane's mother. She was out
of her fe fucking that's right. Didn't he killed her? Right? Uh? No,
she died of natural causes. He kept her in the
house and played with her body and then like wore
her face in the moonlight. Pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Nipple belt Yeah so unbleep now, okay, yeah, nipple belt.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Is that him? Yeah? That's our guy.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Should we give a shout out to the girl who
is a fack man? We're gonna need to post this,
but like we got this like gift once and it
was a box and there were these like this, like
crocheted belt in it, and we were like, okay, all right,
we're yarring crochet belt?

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Was that in Oakland? I think it was the Oakland Show? No, no,
it was sent here?

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Oh sent oh yeah, Because then you guys left and
I went to take a photo of it, and as
I'm looking through the lens, I realized that it's a
crocheaded nipple belt and it's like every different color nipples,
like different races of nipples, and it's and I just
lost my mind in like joy of like how creative,

(31:15):
Like that's a description of murderinos is like our listeners,
is someone for a shade a fucking multicultural nipple.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Belt, a nibble belt giving ed gain that shout out.
Also the fact that you had to have that realization alone,
it's actually almost perfect. Yeah, it's that like growing wise horror.
Were we pulled that hang out, We're like is it
a is it a cat toy? Like we're just like
whipping it around.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
We had no idea, and then I it just made
me so happy when I realized how awful it wasn't
the hat cutest way, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Because you couldn't tell you had to. It was like
a magic eye poster. You really had to stare at
it for a while to understand the hideous dolphins.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
I gotta post it, okay anyway. The following year, Joseph
Duncan is arrested for driving a stolen car, and that's
when he's sentenced as a juvenile and sent to Disland's
Boys Ranch in Tacoma, which you'd know is probably a
hellhole nightmare. He tells his therapist when he's there that

(32:16):
he had bound and sexually assaulted six boys, and he
also tells a therapist that he had raped around thirteen
younger boys by the time he was sixteen.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, so he's a cereal rapist. Yeah, can you imagine
losing count? He said, around thirteen boys? What does that
therapist fucking go home that night and drink. They're just saying,
now i become a sea captain. Yea bullshit. I'm gonna
be a librarian.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
Now to the lighthouse, he said, goodbye. I'm gonna get
a cat, you know, you know, maybe just a ton
of cats, like thirty cats. Yeah, just pet him. Just
surround myself with cat.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (32:54):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
In nineteen eighty, still in Tacoma, he steals guns from
a neighbor and abducts of fourteen year old boy again
rapes him at gunpoint, and for that he sentenced to
twenty years in prison, but he's released on parole in
ninety four after serving fourteen years. Then he's arrested in
ninety six for marijuana use, but he's released on parole

(33:17):
a few weeks later, but with new restrictions. And then
in ninety seven he's around thirty four, he's arrested in
Kansas and returned to prison after violating the terms of
his parole, but he's released from prison three years later
in July two thousand with time off for good, good old.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Good good behavior for the Cereal rapist.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
So he's good in prison, clean your fucking tray at
the canteen at at mess Hall, and you can leave.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
So that okay.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
So in the summer of twenty fourteen, he's accused him
lasting a six year old boy at a park in
Detroit Lake, Minnesota, but he's not captured until March of
two thousand and five, and he's held on fifteen thousand
dollars bond. So there's a he's a businessman from Fargo
who somehow Duncan had become acquainted with who helped him
post bail h fifteen thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
I wonder what brand of pedophile he was was allegedly
allegedly businessman?

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, yeah, I mean very allegedly.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah. And if he wasn't, he must fucking hate himself,
now true. What if he was just trying to be
like a good smart Yeah, here's a guy down on
his luck. Oh, he says he didn't.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
He said he didn't molest a six year old boy
at a park, So maybe he didn't. And I'm going
to spend half of some people's salary. You're getting out anyways,
Duncan skips down.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
Two months later, in two thousand and five, Coot and
Eye County, Idaho authorities discover the bodies of Brenda Groan, forty,
her boyfriend, and her thirteen year old son. They're in
their family home near cor De Lane, and they'd been
bound and died of blunt force trauma to the head. Wow,
and sorry. Brenda's two other children, Shasta who's eight and Dylan,

(35:05):
who's nine.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
I hate this one so much. I know it's so horrible.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Okay, I know I almost didn't do it because it's
so bad you have to do it on love.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Of the shit out.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
But I didn't know that this guy had so much
background to him.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
I didn't, but it makes perfect sense of course he does.
But oh my god, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, it's just one of those stories that you can't
fucking believe is real.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yes, I can still see the TV when I was
watching the news and them showing the foot, the CCTV foot. Okay, yes,
I totally not.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
We're gonna say, but you're gonna give away the end,
tell your story and we'll talk about it.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
But I saw it too, and it's it just burned
in my mind. Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
So Shasta is eight, Dylan is nine. They're missing. They're
missing from the house and the three others, the three
older people are dead, and so they issue an amber
alert and they comb the area and they can't find
the kids until six weeks later, in July two thousand
and five, Shasta is recognized from her amber alert by

(36:08):
a waitress, a manager, and two customers at a Denny's.
But then they're back in cord Delayane Quardelaine. As I
say it, Cordlaine. The workers freak the fuck out, immediately
phone the police, and they position themselves to prevent Duncan
from leaving. Police officers arrive at the restaurant. They arrest
Duncan without incident, and Shasta's taken to the hospital to

(36:30):
be reunited with her dad. And so the footage we're
talking about is them walking into the fucking Denny's and
she's got her arms crossed. She's like this little blonde girl.
He's this creepy looks like John Mendelssohn, Ben Mendelssohn, and
she's got her arms crossed, and it's clear something is wrong. Yes,
And you wonder if you had seen that, would you
have thought something was going on too?

Speaker 2 (36:51):
They must have because that many I remember reading about
the waitress coming to the table and being like, I
don't like to feel here, are you okay? Yeah? What's
going on? And I think she waited? Did he go
to the bathroom? Maybe there was some moment she had
with Shasta, I believe before where she was like, this
isn't good and she called the police. Well, what's so

(37:13):
weird about it?

Speaker 4 (37:13):
Is you?

Speaker 1 (37:14):
I have to wonder they went back to the town
they were from, so everyone in that town must have
known intimately what both well maybe they didn't know who
he was yet, but what she looked like. Yes, So
there was another sighting of them, you know, in another
state that they later realized happened. And the woman who

(37:34):
worked at the store, it was like a gas station
was like, I thought it might be her, but I
wasn't sure, so I didn't do anything about it. And
it's like, well, someone in your town would have done something.
And it also tells you like, if you have a
bad feeling about something, don't worry about hurting the dad's
fucking feelings. If this child looks in distress, at.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Least talk to one other person about it. Yeah, if
you don't send up every red flag you ever feel feelings.
But there's definitely if you're in tune enough, there's when
you know something's wrong, you know what's wrong and trust yourself.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
I've always thought that, like, if I see a kid
who looks uncomfortable or in distress or not not feeling
like they're where they're supposed to be, it's okay for
me to go up to a kid and be.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Like, hey, what's your name, you know, like engage with
the kid.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
You know, I'm not a fucking dude, So it's not creepy,
but like, like, don't do that. If you're a guy,
tell a woman to do that. But you know, to
be like what's your name? And if you fucking send
something is wrong? Like you can just tell by a
body language with a kid. Yeah, something isn't right. I
mean there was there should be.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah, I wish there was some kind of like set
process or keyword you know whatever this.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, listen, write down everyone's license plate, every creepy dude's
license plate, at all time.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Take the time you don't need to work, quit your job,
get a spiral notebook, sit in front of a gas
station and just write down license plates for a while.
Yeah done.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
But I got I adore that Denny's waitress. Oh, I
just because you know that first of all, if they
were to she's probably working to night. She she's seen
some looney tunes totally.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
You know, she doesn't call the cops every time she
sees a scraggly Now Mendelssohn type, No, we shouldn't involve
that actor at all. Poor guy.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
He's like, wait, what the fuck fuck you guys, No,
we just got him fucking cast on the lifetime movie
of this motherfucking case. You're welcome Van Mendelssohn creating work.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
You're welcome. Bah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Hospital all right here get Here's where it gets awful.
So Shasta tells investigators that the night of her abduction,
her mother had called her in the living room from
her the bedroom where she had been sleeping, and she
saw Duncan, like the Duncan was like, call your kids
in here right now. She sees hint Duncan wearing black
gloves and holding a gun. He ties her mother's hands

(39:50):
with nylon zip ties, as well as the mother stiance,
and that her brother Slade. Then he takes this Dylan,
Shasta and her brother, her little brother Dylan out out
of the house. They get inside his stolen rental car,
and then Duncan goes back into the house. She hears
her mother's fiance scream and then sees her injured older

(40:12):
brother staggering away from the entrance to the home. But
she didn't witness Duncan bludgeoning the three of them to death.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
He bludgeoned them to death.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Tied them up and bludgeon them. Fuck. When Shastas asked
where her brother Dylan is. She said in heaven there
may be some evidence down in the Lolo Forest, because
that's where we were.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
What does that mean.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
On July fourth, two thousand and five, Dylan's remains were
discovered at a campsite near Saint Regis, Montana. He'd been
sexually assaulted and then killed with a shot in the head,
after which his body had been burned, and Shasta fucking
witnessed the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Oh God, I know.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Duncan had also filmed Dylan's final hours, and Duncan can
be audibly heard in the video, which was shown to
the fucking jury. Can you fucking imagine how much therapy
you need after that? Oh my god, saying the devil
likes to watch children suffer and cry. Chess is also
repeatedly tortured and sexually assaulted, but supposedly he falls in
love with her and decides to return her home, which

(41:13):
is why they were back in her town.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh what the moster monster. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Duncan later confesses that he had entered the home while
the family slept with the express intention of murdering the
parents and kidnapping the children. He claims he quote wanted
he wanted quote revenge against society for sending him to
prison for twenty years for sexually assaulting a younger boy
who was fourteen years old when he himself is only
sixteen year old. So he wants revenge against society for

(41:41):
being sent to prison for sexually assaulting.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
For being rabists. Yep, yeah, that's not clear thinking. No,
it's not logical.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Things, and you're not taking responsibility for your actions. You're
not fucking You're not cool. You're Dougson.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
You're the devil.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
You're the devil. You're the Devil's like, dude, down the fuck?

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Can you skip to the part where he gets murdered
in jail?

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Please tell me the Devil's like, hey, man, I hurt
fucking corrupt attorneys.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Not yeah, sorry, corrupt attorneys. Sorry, corupt attorneys.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
So he subsequently charged with murdering Dylan as well as
the three other family members. During his incarceration, authorities are
able to link Duncan to the disappearance of Anthony Michael Martinez,
who is ten years old when he went missing on
April fourth, ninety seven while he was playing with friends
in the front yard of his home in Beaumont, California.

(42:37):
A man approached, the group asks for help finding a
missing kitten while holding out a photo of a cat
as well as a dollar bill, and two of the
children ran away in fear, and the kidnapper pulls a
knife out, grabs Anthony, and flees in a white car
with what red pinstripes and no hug caps. After two

(42:59):
weeks search, Martinez's body is found nude and partially decomposed
in Indio on April nineteenth, ninety seven. He had been
sexually assaulted and bound with duct tape. A composite sketch
is made of the suspect and a partial fingerprint, but
the case goes cold, and then when he is incarcerated,

(43:19):
Riverside authorities are able to match the partial fingerprint taken
to Duncan, and so they officially announce his connection. He
pleads guilty in twenty eleven. The Plea agreement carries a
mandatory life sentence, although he won't get he won't get
the death penalty for it in California because he pleads guilty.

(43:41):
Duncan also confessed to two additional murders. Samijio White eleven
and her sister, Carmen Qbias, nine, were lasting leaving a Seattle,
Washington hotel to get cigarettes at a nearby restaurant for
an older brother. Nine no babies. Police said that they
don't they don't know whether the girls ran away or

(44:04):
victims of fel play at the time. Of course, a
fucking nine year old is running away an eleven year old.
Then on July sixth, ninety six. That happened on July
six ninety six. Then there remains were found on February tenth,
nineteen ninety eight, in Bothel, Washington by a transient living
in an abandoned barn. All three murders occurred. What Duncan

(44:27):
was on parole of those murders, Duncan has only been
charged in the California case. In all, he's been convicted
in a Hio for kidnapping and murder of the three victims,
for which he was giving six life sentences, in federal
court for kidnapping Shasta and Dylan, and for murdering Dylan
he was given three death sentences in three life sentences,

(44:49):
and in the state of California for kidnapping murdering Anthony
Martinez for which he was given two life sentences. Is
he still in jail he's still in jail. He will
be forever.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Look see his picture. No oh god, oh Steven, you
better watch that mustache, because we are looking at a.

Speaker 6 (45:10):
Serious and doubting the mustache. Yeah, although murdering has got
me a mustache. Switchblade car eh Okay, I can keep
it in check.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Okay, yes, please do that case that little girl and
the thing she went through people, I feel like anybody
that was like conscious around that time paid attention to
anything around that time. It also because it was early
enough so that there wasn't like nowadays, there's so much
awful shit going on, as we know everywhere all the time.

(45:46):
They're closing down nature, they're closing down schools, they're closing
down protecting people who need protection. They're closing it all down.
It's insanity. It happens every day. But there was a time,
and I used to think about it a lot in
the nineties where we had it. We were just like
fat cats. There was nothing going on. It was before
we got into that first war.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Clinton. It was Clinton.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
No, it was the Clinton days. It may have been
later than that, but still it was like there wasn't
so when something like that came on the news, y
it was heart stopping. It was like, you've got to
be kidding me, how did this happen? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (46:23):
No, I mean and even even in the just the
last couple of years, we hear, we hear about every
single one of them, especially when you're into fucking true crime. Yeah,
I'm just constantly reading about these things and we're just
constantly looking at But back then it was harder to
find those things and the detail that you can get now, yeah, photos,
and so it was just this glimpse that you would get.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah horrible, Yeah, God, that's yeah. Sorry, So that's no.
I mean, that's like that was a big one, and
it's interesting to know that that was a person that
started doing that, that was that was the internally and
intensely damaged individual. All that like started pretty bad and
it got way way, way worse.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Right somewhere along the way, you know, there could have
been intervention or just something different could have happened.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
I think it's when eventually, hopefully people start taking rape
as a crime, more serious state, as a real as
something that this isn't something to have your hands slapped
and walked away from, and that a lot of people
that do it.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Do it over and over again and intend to do
it over and over again.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
That's a serious problem with a person, and it's not.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
I feel like there's a lot of people who just
think rape is someone who wants to have sex really bad,
like a rapist is someone who's just looking for sex,
when if you think about it in a way which
it actually is, which is this fucking violent, insane mind
who needs to overpower and hurt and fucking ruin someone
that is a criminal who should not be allowed on

(48:00):
the streets after.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Three years of good behavior. And how often do they escalate?
I mean, how many stories do we tell that start
off with a person doing she he raped a girl
in his town, and then da dah dah, and then
he moved to this town and then suddenly he's murdering
the people he's raping. I mean, it's it's the story
every time. Yeah, I feel like it's going to catch
up slowly as long as we don't well, I mean,

(48:23):
I feel like the more people who talk about it,
the more people who have conversations, but also the more
like the brock Turner.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
I was just thinking, That's what I was thinking about.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, that the swimmer from Sandford who got released because
you know, nobody wanted to mess up his swimming career.
And he raped a girl so violently. Who I think
he drugged?

Speaker 1 (48:46):
I think.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
I don't know if that ever came out like to
be the truth, but that's the theory.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
She was incapacitated.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
She was incapacitated. She and when she told the story,
it's like she's at a party and all of a
sudden she's waking up behind a dumpster. And the two
men who witnessed it were so upset. The two men,
grown men were shing him, so upset of what they witnessed.
That's not something that you go, okay, well, don't do
this anymore. Who would do that in the first It's like,

(49:14):
we have to start treating it and talking about it
as the extremely violent criminal act that it is. And
also stop fucking using the phrase sexual assault.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
I was using.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
If it's rape, it's rape.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Some people say, like, you know, sexual assault, it's not sex.
Don't use the word sex when it's just righte uncon
sexual non consensual sex, non consensual sex is sex, is right,
is rape, that's right. Sex is between two consenting adults,
So don't fucking call it that.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Also, date rape is rape.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Date rape is rape. That doesn't mean it's just nice
and chill rape. No, it's rape.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Also, there's it wasn't a pre agreement that that agreement
got broken, which is what date rape alludes to.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
You went on a date, what did you? Yeah, someone
got upset. No, this person is a rapist. Yeah, you
don't rape people unless you're a rapist.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
So right, people, Oh man, I mean, I think we're
coming down pretty hard on an anti rape stance. I
think it's clear that we're anti right and we're saying
it to our listeners as if we were like to
convince them. Event you guys, stop it, stop it.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
We're like, yes to fucking cruchet nipple belts, no to rape.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Just know where we stand. We're gonna tell you how
it works. There's no gray area.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Oh man, are you ready for yours?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah? This is gonna be a bit of a left turn.
I'm not gonna say it's fun, but it died.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
It's an upturn. It's an uptick from.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
It's it's not the most upsetting for me. That really,
and I'm not I swear I'm not criticizing you. It
really that's the one that gets me where I almost
try not to think about it because it's just awful.
I've almost didn't do it. But I'm like, but there
are people. I mean, that's these are the stories people.
When you talk about them, it's important.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Because also because she's a survivor and she survived.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
And she has a story it's how which I think
she's now coming out and telling it.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
I bet she is. Yeah, I bet, I bet she's
doing amazing work.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
And that's you know, there's no I mean, just to
think of the nightmare she went through. Yeah, as a survivor,
she has to be a very strong person to be
able to move to move forward, not on, but move
forward in real life.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yep, Okay, we're back, Georgie. You have any updates on
this story?

Speaker 1 (51:37):
I do have some updates. What an awful fucking story.
And I hate to keep bringing up the book well,
I actually love to keep bringing up the book Murderland.
But this dude grew up in the perfect serial killer area. Yeah,
you know, that's Pacific Northwest in the seventies, lead filled skies.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I just bought a hard copy of that book because
I was like, it's going to take too long. It's okay,
it's okay. I want to support it anyway. And I
saw it. I was a bookstar and I saw it
and I was just like, oh, I have to get
this myself.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
By Mike Jealous that you're going to start it again.
It's so fucking incredible. Okay, So I have some updates.
In twenty twenty one, Joseph Edward Duncan the Third died
at the age of fifty eight while still on death row.
He had previously been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. Anthony
Edward's father, Ernesto, made a statement saying, quote, while I
would have liked to witness his execution, knowing that he
is now standing before God, being held accountable for what

(52:29):
he has done, what he did to my son and
the horrible crimes he committed to others, That's the real
justice end quote. And then Shasta Growan wrote a book
incredible called Out of the Woods, A Girl, a Killer
and a Lifelong Struggle to find the Way Home that
was published very recently in twenty twenty five and co
authored with true crime writer Greg Olsen.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
We need to get that, yeah, I mean everybody should
go buy Shasta Ground's book for sure.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Definitely Out of the Woods. It's called and in it
is open with her long healing journey and tells the
story of her life both before and after she lost
her family and survived Duncan's violence. I've seen her on
TV and she is just this dynamic, incredible, on aspiring woman.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Wow. Yeah, that was maybe said. Yeah, it sounded like
Mabe was making fun of me. I'm like, I'm wow.
She's like, Wow, I do have a corrections corner on
your story because I mentioned the basically the detail that
ed Gean's mother pinched his penis right, and that was
a topic in the original episode. It turns out that

(53:38):
it's like an urban myth, and it's like, there's no basically,
there's no proof. So that's just me kind of pushing
along another urban myth that I shouldn't have done. Thank
god you cleared that horrible detail up twenty nine years later.
Please don't think poorly of ed Dean's mother.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
In this fucking podcast of horrible details. There's one we
can check.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Right off that. Let's get rid of it. Oh yeah, all.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Right, let's listen to Karen's story about Fred Newlander.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
All right, I'm going to talk to you about a
man named Rabbi Fred Newlander. Do you know him?

Speaker 4 (54:23):
No?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Okay, So I got most of this from an old
City Confidential, which if you haven't seen City Confidential, oh
the oldest ones were narrated by a man, a great
actor named Paul Winfield. And Paul Winfield narrated this show
like he had uh a margarita in one hand. He

(54:45):
is so chilled out. It feels like when he tells
you the story and the writing is so hilariously brilliant.
They tell you the story so they it's called City Confidential,
so they tell you all about the city first, so
they're like, it was a bedroom coming exactly Jerry Hill, Pennsylvania.
It was a sleepy book. And then it becomes they

(55:06):
do it thematically. So since because this was about the rabbi,
it was all these biblical references, it was like, but
evil did live here, and it's like and he's kind
of talking like that, he's a little slurry.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
It's like, but yeah, but like such obvious innuendos that
it's not.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
I love that show. It's the best show. I used
to watch it so much.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
I don't know why Forensic Files is on constantly and
that show isn't because Forensic Files is like adorable, it's
so dated, you know, it's a book.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Consitting on Vengel is legitimately good. City Confidential is a
beautifully put together, beautifully produced show. Good stories too, great stories.
They get great people. Here's what I love the hometown reporters. Oh,
because they're the ones that know the whole story.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Angels, and this is their big fucking moments to be
on TV and.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
To be like I know I wrote about he called
the one. I'm the one. It's me. Listen.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
I went to fucking Phoenix University journalism school, and I'm
finally fucking getting my come up.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
And but a lot of these people, like it's true,
it's like these This one woman who's a reporter for
it was like the Cherry Hill Gazette or whatever the hell.
I should have written it down. No, it's on YouTube.
Everybody go watch it. It's so good. But these are journalists,
these are really these are people who are like, this
is what the town's like, this is what we're used to.
This is It's so cool because they give you.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
The sense of what is going on, and they're always
such like they're such earnest people like you trust them.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
You they know what they're talking about. It's not this
this bullshit over here where it's like I think it
was in Pennsylvania. They're like they know for a fact
everything they say is a fact.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
And there over here, like sitting on the couch right now.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
I was pointing to myself, Oh yeah, I thought you
met like the La time. I was like, oh no,
because we're in LA, like the west coast, like uh no, no, okay,
So yes, if you want, if you want to get
the full story the city comfident on there also, just
I do recommend getting onto a YouTube like enter some

(57:07):
true crime something, because they just have a million old
shows on YouTube that are true crime stories that just
they don't This one doesn't have the title City Confidential.
It just says Fred Newlandorn Oh yeah, then you click it,
so I think somebody was avoiding oh get in trouble.
So you can still watch them anyhow, Please do support

(57:28):
City Confidential. It doesn't exist anymore. Okay. So Cherry Hill,
Pennsylvania is a suburb of Philly. It's middle upper middle class,
and it might sound familiar to you because it had
the first indoor mall on the East coast the Cherry
Hill mall. Okay, no, okay, So that's exciting for that.

(57:51):
I'm happy for them, right, people. I mean it used
to be like because the Highway seventy used to go
from Philly to Cherry Hill, and so basically that road
was always full of traffic because people lived worked in
the city and lived in the suburbs. And so they
started building you know, stores along the road because everyone

(58:13):
was always on the road. That's smart. That's what led
to the first indoor mall.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I never thought of that thing, like there's a first one. Yeah,
it's just like then they were.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Yeah, and then people just go like the whole city
was kind of built around and the community was in
the mall. They one of these reporters said, like, if
you want to know the community or see what the
community is like, you go to the mall. Wow. I
love a mall, dude. Yeah. So okay. So there's like
seventy thousand residents and probably a third of them are Jewish.

(58:43):
So there's that. You know, these reporters talk a lot
about how much there really is a lot of diversity
in this town. And so one of the more popular
temples in Cherry Hill is called kor shaloone and it
was founded by Rabbi Fred Newlander in nineteen seventy four.

(59:03):
He was an assistant rabbi at a different temple, but
he didn't want to be the assistant anymore, and he
felt like his take on what he wanted to talk
about and preach about, please correct me on any of
these I'm going to use a lot of Catholic wording
for very strictly Jewish things, and I apologize in advance.
But he basically wanted his congregation and his leadership to

(59:27):
be a little bit more updated and a little different.
So he starts this new temple and by the mid
nineties he's got four thousand people going to it, so
it's like one of the bigger ones in the city.
He had met his wife, Carol in college. She was
the daughter of a very well to do garment garment businessman.

(59:49):
I guess, garment manufacturer, like a garment textile guy, you know,
textiles and clothing merchant, I guess. But she was rich,
like she grew up in a mansion in Long Island
and with butlers and stuff. Holha, I love that part.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
And they talked about like a rolling a rolling lawn
down to the ocean or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Like thought of having.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Butler's just like hanging out makes me I would feel.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Guilty and uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Yeah, we're like someone's silent standing there, ready to do
your bidding. Steve, And I want to point out that, yeah,
I would hate it to have like a helper.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
It's someone that just does whatever you ask them to
and you don't you only pay every five months. Touche.
I stand corrected. I meant that about myself as much
as you know. Yeah, you were correct. Steven's crying.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Uh, Stephen, get back in your hole, Stephen, put your
tuxiedo back on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Okay. So, while at the same time as Fred is,
you know, starting up his basically his own religious community
in Cherry Hill, Carol notices that they're with all the
festivities that go on in the religious holidays and stuff
like that, there's no kosher bakery. So she opens Cherry

(01:01:09):
Hill's first kosher bakery. It was called the Classic Cake Company.
And she starts at smilingly right, she sees a niche
and that needs to be filled. She does it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
She's not going to fucking rest on her dad's textile laurels.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Fuck no, no, and she's not going to rest on
her rabbi husband's good time. Now, she's going to be like,
excuse me, I went to a party and yet again
I couldn't get a slice of kosher cake.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Can I please? It might God damn it to three
any butder cream in this fucking the past couch bacon.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
That's kosher right when it doesn't get bacon rubbed on it.
So she starts this cake company and it does great.
So by the early nineties the new Landers are killing it.
Their son, Matthew is a medical student, but he's also
part time emt. Their daughter, Rebecca lived in Philly. I

(01:02:05):
don't know anything about her, but I want to say
great things she was. I mean, she lived in Philly,
she got out of Cherry Hill, she made it. She
wasn't an oath schwamp, no, no way. And she still
got along with her family because her and her mom
talked on the phone all the time. So the only
worry was this Carol at the Classic Cake Company made

(01:02:25):
the take was between five and twenty grand a day.
Holy shit. So it's a middle aged mom type who's
driving home with a shit ton of cats every night.
So Fred starts to be concerned about that, and he
tells Carol, I'm going to look into this because I
think we need better security for the house and for you,

(01:02:46):
and we need to kind of like address this. So
in uh, Fred says he knows a guy. So what
it happened was in nineteen ninety two, a man named
Lenn Janoff had come to the temple because someone in
HISA group recommended that he go speak to Rabbi Fred

(01:03:08):
Newmyer because at the time Lenn had just gotten divorced.
He was totally broke. He was a raging alcoholic doing
very like really bad in general. And also it's people
say he was kind of a bit of a liar.
So he had a he had kind of a he
had some personality issues and some work to do. And

(01:03:29):
when he went to go talk to Rabbi Fred Newmeyer,
they got along great and and Fred said, come to
this temple. You don't have to worry about paying anything
like you We want you here. You're welcome, And he
really made a place for him there and they both
smoked at the time, so they would sneak off and
smoke together because I think rabbis rabbis might maybe they're

(01:03:49):
not supposed to smoke or it's frowned upon or something. Well,
he would sneak away with his friend and they would
go smoke and talk, and turned out that and had
a lot to say. He had been a Vietnam vett
and then according to him, he worked for the CIA
and the FBI and Special Forces.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Nobody, if you actually have done that, you don't say it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
That's exactly what someone said in City Confidential. Shut up
were swear to God. I think his own friend there
was another guy that was this classic like because this
thing was shot in what nineteen ninety five probably, so
there's some amazing like amazing colored blazers and there's some
frosted tips. But his friend said the exact same thing.

(01:04:34):
People who worked in the CIA do not tell you
stories about when they used to work at the CIA.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
The part of Len's reason for drinking so much is
because he had been in the ship and seen the shit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Okay, so no one's going to say anything about it. Okay.
So on Tuesday nights, Carol is at the Classic K
Company has her it's her manager's meeting night, and so
she stays at work until eight. So that night November one,
nineteen ninety four is a Tuesday, and Fred comes home

(01:05:08):
at six o'clock and he brings a pizza home for
him and Matthew to have for dinner because they know
Carol's not going to be there. And then Matthew goes
for his shift being an amt at six thirty.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Oh no, so I know where this is going.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
You might. So then Fred goes back to the temple
because Carol's not going to be there. So he goes
back to the temple. He pops in on the assistant
rabbi's Judaism class, and he pops in on the fire practice,
and he's kind of hanging out of the temple.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
I don't know what he's doing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
When Carol comes home at eight o'clock, no one's home,
and she's talking on the phone to her daughter, Rebecca,
And while they're on the phone, she says to her daughter, Oh,
the bathroom. The bathroom man's here again, And she's like,
what are you talking about? And then Carol explains that
a man had dropped by to deliver something for Fred

(01:06:05):
the father, and instead of just handing the thing to her,
he asked if he could use the bathroom, and so
he came in and used the bathroom. Oh no, And
Rebecca was very upset about that and was like, I
don't like that at all. Don't let him in. And
she said, no, he's fine. He's this schlubby guy. He's
kind of like, you know, he's nothing to worry about, basically,

(01:06:27):
is what she said. And then they get off the
phone and she says he's a friend of your father's,
so don't worry about it. In nine to twenty, Fred
comes home from the temple and no one's home, and
then when he gets inside the doorway more he looks
in the living room and it's white carpet, white furniture,

(01:06:49):
like almost an completely white room, and it's covered in blood.
There's blood everywhere, and Carol is laying in the middle
of the living room death. He calls nine one one,
and when he calls nine one one, he sounds really
upset and flustered, and at one point he says to
the dispatcher or the nine one one operator, should I

(01:07:12):
touch her? He asks that, so and I thought about
that after because I was like, well, that's kind of
a weird point to make. And then I thought, well,
that's that thing where if I walked into this apartment
to come and record, and you were laying in the
middle of the floor, right bloody. I would run over
to you and be like, George, are you okay, and
touch you yeah, bunch, without asking anybody about it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
You wouldn't think to yourself, oh, I don't want to
contaminate this crime scene.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Right, We're just I'm going to hang back and hope
hopefully she's okay. So that that was noted basically, And
then I thought about that because so his so as
he's on the phone call, he says, you have to
tell that, you have to tell them my son is
an e MT. They can't send him here, and so

(01:08:02):
like the word goes out. But it didn't matter because
he was like the third group that arrived. So by
the address, yes, but he wasn't on that call or
that run or whatever. So by the time he did arrive,
there had already been police and another ambulance or whatever.
He tries to run inside, he has to get physically

(01:08:23):
restrained from running inside, and then he looks over and
sees his father just standing in the driveway, just kind
of staring, and he notices that there's no blood on
his father at all. There's not a drop of anything
on his father. And then he asks, and he and
the rabbi didn't say last rites over her. He didn't

(01:08:46):
say the prayer, like there are things they were saying
that they would assume he would have done as a
rabbi with a dead person. Now, who knows, because it's
his wife. Sure, so he might have just been in
total shock and like wandered out. Fair But when police
were exiting the house, coming in and out, he never
asked anybody what's going on? What happened to her? He
never said a word. He was just standing there, very

(01:09:09):
dispassionately staring.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
And if you found me and I was stabbed to death,
and the thing that'll go through your mind is is.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
The killer still in the house? Yes, you know what
I mean to not think that, how long ago did
this happen? Who did it? What is happening?

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Why are they still here? Yeah, I think that's a
natural fucking fuck. Yes, that'd be the scariest thing. So
he doesn't even think about that. No, that's bad, Like
that's a bad sign.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Yes, And also I did hear a bit of his
nine one one call, and it's just I just hate
so much when it sounds like people are fake. I
hate fake crying. Ah does he sound like he's just
like that, But it's like, I just I just love
good acting, and this offends me when people are like, oh,
this will pass. This is how people act when they're upset.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Everyone else is so stupid and I'm so smart that
they'll never know that this is fucking fake.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah, of course I'll buy it. So good, I'm so
good and so believable in these decisions I'm about to
make about what a real person.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Has emotions, right, Like who wouldn't murder his wife?

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Yeah? Oh my god, Okay, so okay, says go to paper. Okay.
So of course immediately he becomes the focus of the
investigation because he's the husband and because these weird, weird behavior. Yeah,
they start talking to but his alibi is air tight,

(01:10:32):
as we know, the choir teachers say, and the assistant rabbi.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
Some he asked everyone what time it was?

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Is it for real?

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
And to the point where the cops are immediate like,
that's a super air tight alibia.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
You don't buy from one second. Well, and they start
asking people at the temple. It was the first time
in four years he'd ever gone into the Judaism class.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
And the choir leader was a known to hate interruptions.
No one went into choir practice while it was going on.
It was and and Fred himself knew that about him.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Do some due diligence and then come in like once
in the fucking weeks beforehand, keep telling you how to
fucking kill someone.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
But it's the thing of if you don't know instinctually
how natural people act, how I act in a natural way,
you're not gonna be able to recreate it. If you're
a sociopath like this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
And everyone thinks you're on the label, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
You think everyone's dumb. And also clearly he's got a
bit of a god complex. And she's like, I need
my own temple whatever. Yeah, so okay. Uh. Then they
go to the phone records and they realized that the
rabbi had been calling this one number. And they go
and look at it and it's a local Philadelphia radio

(01:11:51):
talk show host and m yes, and uh, we'd have
to find her name.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Shit, Sorry, this is a weird turn. I wasn't expecting.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Did you not see this one coming? Oh? I didn't
see that we were going to go into talk radio
now I did not. We'll talk about that in podcasting.
Neither did anybody else, especially the fans of Elaine Sorcines
of Philadelphia Radio. She's a radio personality. So basically they

(01:12:26):
do all the math. They see that he's he called her.
He called her the day after the murder and said,
I really like hang in there. I really want to
be with you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Did they fucking what's that? They fucking?

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Oh? They straight up fucking yeah. So they find out
all these calls are going to her house. This is
a woman who the reason they met is because two
years earlier he presided over her husband's funeral. Uh huh, girl, yes,
that's right, and they had started having an affair, they

(01:13:04):
say roughly two months later.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Oh no, yes, Bonnie ain't cold.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
He moved right in.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Yep, you don't. You don't fuck someone whose husband you
said the cottash for. You know what I mean? Right,
That's what I always say. It's what you that's here,
you have that tattooed.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Right? Uh okay, So oh I'm sorry, I just got
I just got up to my own piece of paper.
They began. She admitted that they started having an affair
ten days after her husband's funeral ten days. Oh no,
after her husband's funeral. No. Yes, And then two years later,

(01:13:43):
she gives him an ultimatum. She says, I don't want
to sneak around with you anymore. You say you want
to leave your wife, leave your wife, and if you
don't do it by the end of nineteen ninety four,
this is over and I'm starting afresh in the new year.
And he's like, how about instead, well, he so that
was in October of nineteen ninety four, and the murder

(01:14:05):
happens in November. He's told her, I'll have this all
sorted out by your birthday, which was in December, and
she's like, you know, I mean breakup I sorted out?

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Do you mean yeah, you're going to end their relation?

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
No, No, that's kind of what I did. A horrible murder. Yeah.
Oh well that's not what I was talking about at all.
So yeah, so he was making a lot of calls
to her. So the police, all the evidence they have
is circumstantial. So it even though everyone's like that stuff
about his airtight alibi, it's still an airtight alibi. Just

(01:14:41):
like everyone's like, this is this thanks to Yah Heaven?
But it doesn't matter. They can't get any hard evidence
until the cops tell Elaine that Fred Newlander was also
having affairs with three other women not the temple, besides her.
And that's when she's like, guess what, hey about? Guess

(01:15:03):
what everybody? And she spills it. Then not a.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Shitty thing though for her not to If she hadn't
known that, she would have never told anyone, you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Know what I mean? Yeah, I mean I bet she
needed to believe that he didn't do it, or that
it was all like, I'm sure he was telling her.
Of course, the husband suspected. We're always suspected. Hang in
there with me, and.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
She wasn't a fucking murderina then, because any murderino would
be like, get the fuck away from me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
Yeah, that's that's He also told her, I told you
to trust me. When God closes the door, he opens a.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Window, you're like glad you fart or something, Get the
fuck out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
It's like, you're the happiest rabbi I've ever heard. You're
supposed to be really eloquent and have like good sayings.
Yeah that's Brent a serious man. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Movie.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
So in May of two thousand, len Janoff goes to
a local Oh no, sorry, that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Was what you were telling me what she was like.
So she finds out there Elaine. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
So Lane finds out that the cops are liked he's
having all these other fish and she's like, oh fine,
then the blah blah blah, and none of this is
as I believe it to be. But that wasn't. That
wasn't until way later I believe it was. She finally
tells them that in nineteen ninety six, but that's still circumstantial.
That could be like the lady that's mad because the

(01:16:24):
guy didn't pick her whatever. When it finally cracks is
when lean Janoff goes to a local reporter and starts
telling her about how he was told that that basically
Rabbi Fred Newlander, who sorry. In the meantime, len Janoff

(01:16:46):
becomes the rabbi spokesperson. So anytime there's news cameras, anytime
there's reporters on the front lawn, the Rabbi sends len
Janoff out to talk to them. And this guy is
just a bullshit or oh my god, and apparently he was.
He would he would call people, he would give quotes.
He was like way out in front of the story. Yeah,

(01:17:08):
and he loved to hand out a private investigation business
card like he and security business card. The whole thing
made me think of the Jerry Peppini guy that's like, oh,
I'll handle this, I'll be the mouthpiece, Like what are
you doing here?

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Yeah, another fucking big headed sociopath.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Yes, And so they work on that guy for a
long time. He eventually tells a reporter that the rabbi
hired him for thirty thousand dollars to kill his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
He spills it, Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
And so he tells the story that him and his
friend Paul Daniels, who he met in AA and Paul
Daniels was twenty years old when this happened. And every
picture of him he looks dumber than the last picture,
Like every picture his mouth is open and it looks
like he can't believe he's where he is. It's super sad.

(01:18:04):
And I know it's wrong to be like, oh, that poor,
terrible criminal that murdered this woman, but it really looks
like he got looped into something that he kind of
didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
What was going on.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
Yes, but I mean erased that, because still what happened
was they knock on the door. That night at the house,
Carol answers the door, recognizes the bathroom man, and they
come in. She's what happens. She led them into the house.
So for whatever they said to her the door, she
was like, come on in, you guys. She turns around,

(01:18:38):
well because she trusts him because it's her husband's friend.
And she turns around to walk in and one of
them hits her on the back of the head with
a pipe and she goes down. They crack her head open.
She goes down in the living room and then and
the Paul Daniels guy says he did the one hit
and then len Janoff went in and just beat her

(01:19:00):
to death with this play. That's the story that guy
gives and they in the in the City Confidential. The
report this one reporter describes it where it's like it's
a white living room and there's just blood everywhere. Like
it's so disturbingly awful because it's like you kill a person,
that's just like, yeah, there's blood spatter, there's whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
It's actually the word legend, Yeah, such a horrible word,
but it's terrible violent eye. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
So finally, uh so, finally they get the cops get
enough evidence so they can indict Fred Neumeyer for this
new Lander, sorry for this death. So they go they
have the first trial, and in that trial all this
stuff comes out. So it's just like all this gossip

(01:19:50):
from the temple, all the stuff they it's just all
they had no idea that their rabbi was this much
of a douchebag. And it all comes out in trial
and they find out that the daughter, like you know,
the mother had just said to the daughter, it's the bathroom. Yeah.
Then they find out that len Janoff had been there
the week before, on the Tuesday night when she was

(01:20:12):
supposed to be there by herself. But he got cold
feet because when he went in, Fred Newlander told him
it needed to look like a robbery. They needed to
be stealing that cake company money. But he when he
walked in, he couldn't see her purse, and since he
knew he wouldn't be able to make it look like
a robbery, he got cold feet, asked he was the bathroom,
and then left.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
Oh my god, So that's why he's the bathroom man.
That's why he's the bathroom man.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
He was there. He was supposed to kill her that
night and basically punked out, holy shit. Yeah. So they
they get it all in trial, and the jury's deadlocked
and it's declared a mistrump no, yes, and this is

(01:20:57):
five years, more than five years of police work and
lawyer's work and everything. It's declared a mistrial. And when
it's declared in mistrial, Fred Newlander smiled, and the prosecuting
attorney saw him smile, and the next morning went down
and filed for a retrial. Immediately, It's just like, we

(01:21:17):
are doing this again right now. So when the new
trial starts, don't need that paper. When the new trial starts,
this time his children testify for the prosecution. So Rebecca
and Matthew now come and tell the story, and it's
the tone is really different, and he's like, basically, it's

(01:21:40):
very sad. The son is just like my father was
watching this whole thing and had no emotions whatsoever, and
like his mother was murdered and his father didn't care,
and so awful. Anyway, at the end of the second
trial in two thousand and two, he's declared guilty and
he does this speech at the end that is the layman,
and it's like that thing we've seen before where they

(01:22:02):
just talk about themselves and how hard it is for
them and what a and he actually, at one point
at the end of this kind of rambling speech that
kind of makes no sense, and he's quoting Bible verse,
of course, and then he goes, I and I alone
know that I am innocent. And then it's just like, well,
listen to what you just said.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Yeah, basically like you just said, you're super fucking guilty,
right right, not being persecuted, you're guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
Yeah. But then after that, Carol's brother Edward, stands up
and he goes, in the past eight years, you've acted
in a manner so repulsive that words cannot begin to
describe the person that you've become. You are a murderer,
a liar, a coward, a cheat. You've dishonored Carol, yourself,

(01:22:50):
your children, this court, the rabinet, your congregation, and judaism ah.
And I just as I'm watching City Confidential, I'm just
like and writing down every word, Edward says, because I
was like, that's fucking bad.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
That's powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Like you're basically like, do whatever you think you're doing there,
it's not where you're humiliating yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Yeah, God doesn't like you anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
That's right. You blew it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
You blew it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
So now he's serving a life sentence. Paul Daniels and
Len Janoff were both given twenty three years for their parts. Wow,
that's it, which is kind of insane that they're the
ones that swung the total pipe. But it was because
it was his plan, Fred's plan.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Yeah, it's like intention. Your intention wasn't to kill your wife,
it was to get money to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
Get for someone else. And also Lenn Janoff was promised
that he was going to get He's going to go
be able to go join the Masade, the Israeli Army.
Oh it's called Insel, right, that's the Israeli the Masad,
or it might be Israeli special Forces. I don't know.
But basically he believed that he was going to go
from there to then go be like a super soldier,

(01:24:08):
which just shows that that guy was pretty nuts. He
was released from jail in twenty fourteen, and Paul Daniels
was released in October of twenty fourteen. Are you serious?

Speaker 4 (01:24:20):
Oh yeah, well let me see if I missed anything,
because I wish I could show you how insane these
pieces of paper look of my handwriting I'm handwriting city.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
I don't know how you can do that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
It's kind of fun to like watch TV and then
be like this is important and be writing it down.
But I didn't. I went out of order. Both trials
were televised on Court TV.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Oh yeah, I've never even heard of it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
I know, isn't that crazy? And this is so this guy,
Arthur J. Magata wrote a book called The Rabbi and
the Hitman about this case, and this is just one
last story from it that I thought was pretty good.
So a congregant who was a doctor had been friends
with Newlander for twenty years and traditionally went to the
rabbi's house for their annual breaking of the fast after

(01:25:13):
Yama War. And when Newlander was charged with this crime
before the trials, the physician told the Newlander he wasn't
going to keep their tradition, and the rabbi wanted to
talk it over, and so he went to his friend's
house and sitting in the living room, that doctor told
Newlander why he believed that he had had his wife killed.
That Newlander never behaved like a grieving widower. That when

(01:25:35):
the physician planned to offer a reward for the information,
about the murder, Newlander asked for the money for himself.
Newlander asked his friend to provide a letter explaining that
medication he was taking for a heart problem would have
caused him to fail his lie detector test what and after?
And he had a motive because with his wife gone,
he didn't have to worry about the mess of doors

(01:25:56):
and he could go on with his lady talk show
host radio talk show host. So Newlander tries to defend himself,
saying he loved his wife and then uh, the doctor says, Fred,
no matter what you say, I can't help but like
you because you're charming and you're beguiling. But I think
you're a psychopath and a murderer. And Newlanders stands up

(01:26:17):
to leave, walks a few steps away, then turns back
and says, well, nobody's perfect. Ew fucking creep ew uh
huh can you imagine your response? Still in your house?
And that's what he says to I think you killed
your wife, so I don't want to hang out with
you anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
And you're a psychopath.

Speaker 2 (01:26:37):
You're a psychopath.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
Like if someone called me a psychopath, it would ruin me.
I'd be like, am I no I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
I know that'd be very hurtful. Yeah, most people would.
What also a doctor a doctor, a doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Yeah, you can't argue with it. And he didn't get
his degree from Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
No, I bet you that was a real Cherry Hill doctor.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
He got his associates from Phoenix. But then he might
he actually got a cosmetology degree because he was interested
in stuff like that. And then he was like, no,
I like medicine. Yeah, I don't like cutting hair, like
cutting people.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
Yeah. Wow yeah, fu shit, that's the rabbi.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
That was a good story though. Okay, thanks good because
I really did have it written on nine different pieces
of paper. You went after me though, too. Okay, we're back, Karen.
This story gets brought up with people I meet randomly
more than any other story. I think I just meet

(01:27:33):
so many people from Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Have you
noticed that in your life? It seems like everybody's from
Cherry Hill, New Jersey or the surrounding area for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
But also I think that the way and we could
credit this show City Confidential, There's so many places to credit,
but the way this story lays out, where it's like
someone starting to find bones in a backyard, and just like,
it's so such a typical, horrifying true crime case that
I think so many people just get into it where

(01:28:06):
it's just like, oh my god, what's actually happening here.

Speaker 1 (01:28:09):
It's such a memorable case that I think anyone from
there around that time remembers a rabbi.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
He killed his wife. Yeah, was this?

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
You know, It's just I've just it's just been brought
up so many times in my life. But anyway, do
you have any updates?

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
Yes, let's see. In twenty twenty four, eighty two year
old Fred Newlander was found on responsive at his New
Jersey prison after suffering a sudden medical emergency, and he
died at the hospital not long after. In twenty twenty two,
there was a musical inspired by this case that they
put up here in La called A Wicked Soul and
Cherry Hill. The family was against this, though the rabbi's

(01:28:48):
congregation was against it. It was a controversial thing, which
makes perfect sense. Carol's Classic Cake Company is very much
still in business now. It's just called Classic Cake and
it officially reopened in May of twenty twenty four, four
years after an electrical fire forced them to close that
grand reopening took place at the Cherry Hill, New Jersey location,

(01:29:11):
and there was a crowd of loyal customers there. If
you want to buy a cake from there, just go
to classictcake dot com and you can order a cake
from there. Oh nice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
I always feel like this somewhat personally responsible when I
find out that a Jewish person is a killer. I
feel like it's just this ooh god, damn it, why
are you making.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Us look bad?

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
Kind of a thing, Like people don't like us already,
you're making it worse.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
That's such a culturally Jewish thing for you to say,
because it is like guilty about that. This is my
fault somehow. I have a piece of this where it's like, no,
you don't, I'm sorry we did that. It's like you
have nothing to do with it, okay. But I also
do think that because like especially rabbis, it's such a
like very specific. There's small amount of people that do it.
It's you know, obviously they're very dedicated. So it's just

(01:29:57):
like this idea that we all think we know. Oh
and I yes, it's Fiddler on the Roof inspired, but
it's like we think we know what this means. To
be a rabbit, you know what I mean, to be
a religious person and all of this that then this
turn is so like, oh, you're not allowed to be
that way. And it's like, of course there's a dark
side to everybody. There's a something else going on. You know.

(01:30:19):
Those are the people that hide, are the people that
have these like overtly spiritual lives. It's totally I don't know. Yeah,
it's creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
I tried to get you off the hook there, but
I think it was words that. It was kind of
word sality.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
No, it's good, it's good, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
All right, let's go back in and we'll listen to
our good thoughts of the week from twenty seventeen.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
What were they? What were we thinking? So we can
leave on us slightly. Oh yeah, we should talk about
a positive a thing we like, Yeah, a thing that
made us happy. Well, I would say, let's see mine.
I have been on the couch a lot since we've
got from Portland.

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
I mean, it takes a lot out of you, it
really does.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
But then also once I get on the couch, I
have a real hard time getting back off, Like it's
just so much easier to stay there. It is what
are you watching Modern Family? Oh? Yeah, I t vowed
Modern Family and it is just such a It's such
a well written show. It's such a good joke. The
characters are so watchable and likable. I'm so in love

(01:31:25):
with Cam of Mitchell and Cam, the two gay guys.
It's he's just the best character. It's like it but
all of them, they're just so many good jokes. And
that's the thing is, it's TV. Writing is very hard,
and they're there. They have been delivering like a plus
grade comedy for like ten years. Yeah. I mean all

(01:31:47):
I did was enter it and immediately I'd like fifteen
episodes of Modern Family. And I got it from my sister.
I will give her full credit because she's been obsessed
with it since the moment it came out. And that's
why I have a song where I friend's Modern Family
where I say in this song, if one more person
tells me to watch Modern Family, oh blah blah blah,

(01:32:08):
And a lot of people are like, oh, you hate
that show. It's like no, no, no, I'm just taking
that from a real anecdote of me and my sister,
Like every time I talk to my sister on the phone,
she would tell me to watch it. I watched it
in the beginning and then I stopped. It's still good.
It's amazing. Yeah, it's just it's just perfectly written. Yeah. That,
and I've been having great lift driver conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
Like, oh, that's nice because you always gets scared. I
always get scared that. It's like I had a nightmare
one the other day, and I'm a nightmare person. A
nightmare conversationists, which means he was just talking at me
and I was getting car sick from it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
And you go, do duty. Ear pop, Yeah, earbugs.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
That's awesome. That's the sweet one.

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
Yeah, there's it's been pretty pleasant, but I really I
have to get a car. It's ridiculous. I'm acting like
miss Daisy. But it's nice sometimes to have like a
pleasant cover station where you laugh about how bad drivers
in LA are. Yeah. Yeah, what's yours?

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
Well, I guess I just finished watching it yesterday. But
Big Little Eyes, oh yeah, which I didn't think I
would like. I never read the book, even though Audible
was always like you might like this, you might like this,
and I'm like, no, I won't, you know, like a
brash sure, and yeah, I don't like that from Oprah's
Book Club. That's the kind of you know. And then

(01:33:30):
of course it's fucking amazing and the show is so good,
and it was all these female characters that were that
their whole lives weren't based on They had these whole
lives around their husbands and families, and they were central
characters instead of being the backup singers to them, you know,
and it was just like about them. It was about

(01:33:52):
them and their co star in life was their partner,
and it was just kind of cool. And the acting
was so fucking good and shy Woodlee what's her name,
Shyleen Jayleen. Yeah, she's just like I want. She's such
a great she's so great in it, and it was
it was really funny. It was fucked up and good.
And there's a murder and.

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
It's a murder mystery. Oh okay, I didn't know that
because I tried to watch the first I swear to god,
I don't think I got four minutes in. And the
first exchange two women had talking to each other, the
tones of voice they were using made me turn my
TV off because it was like, oh, hi, Arlene, nice
to see or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
Well, there's like they all come out as like kunti cunts.

Speaker 2 (01:34:33):
Oh okay, and then it's like, but there's shit going
on underneath the surface. Oh, I'm going back, and it's
a it's the whole thing is a murder mystery. Oh shit,
it's and it's good and everyone is having these. The
Nicole Kidman and Alexander Sarsgard relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Was amazing cool, Like you just need to watch it
to see the two of them.

Speaker 2 (01:34:52):
Nicole Goidman takes a lot of shit, but she's an
incredible action.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
They're gonna win all the awards for Henries Withersman. I think,
are you gonna win it all?

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
I sent my friend a gift the other day of
remember when she was clapping at the Oscars. Yes, someone
made that, and I can't figure out if someone did
this to the gift or if this is really what
it looked like.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
But it looks like her fingers are this like it.
She looks like she has alien fingers.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
As she's classed.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
I think that's real.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
Is it what her fans really look like?

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
I don't know. I saw that too, and I think
it's real.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
We were laughing. I was laughing anyway when I found it.
Because she it looks it looks like flippers.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Yeah, it looks like her nails are wet and she's
trying not to let them near each other.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
But also that she's from Mars. Yeah that aside, that's
me giving her shit when I say she takes a
lot of shit. But she for example, when she started
acting in fucking those Australian you know, I'm the pretty
girl at the prep school, she has been an incredible
Did you ever see dead Calm or she's on the
boat m m oh my god. If you want to

(01:35:57):
see like an amazing murder, like it's ale, not horror.
I guess it would be suspense or something action. But
it's her and Sam Neil I think, and somebody else
they're on a boat. It's so good and she's like
it's when she had her kinky, curly hair and she
had her freckles and she was probably twenty and she's so.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
Beyond Yeah, she's gorgeous. Yeah, and she still is to
this day. They all play these wealthy, these wealthy women
from Monterey and everyone has these secrets underneath kind of
a thing, and it's there's some you know, it's good.
I'm going back.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Fine, this is a you need it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
I was bummed that I didn't binge watch it because
I had to wait a week to watch the new one.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
So get in there, go binj. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
Also, Adam Scott's in it. Who I adore Adam Scott's
in it. He plays a really great character. He's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
Yeah, that's a good rat. Yeah for sure. So that
made me happy this week. Anything else we need a oh?

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
I think that we said last episode was like sixty
Sky said it was like sixty seven, and it was
sixty two or something. I was off by a lot.
What's the numbers?

Speaker 3 (01:37:07):
Said this is sixty three, but.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
Didn't last week I say it was like.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
Sixty six seven seven? I mean, who cares.

Speaker 3 (01:37:14):
Yeah, we're up there in past fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:37:17):
It's not like someone was setting their watch by like,
oh shit, it's Dartie. I said, I was going to
do this thing in my life before sixty seven happened.

Speaker 2 (01:37:22):
And now I talk, they're like, you know what, I'm
going to stop smoking around episode sixty seven. Yeah, and
if I haven't, then I am going to start smoking. Okay,
and we're back. Okay. So this episode was actually originally
titled Steven's tuxedo genius. I mean it kind of almost

(01:37:45):
makes you think that Stephen is a tuxedo cat, a
little black and white cat. That's what it means to me. Think, Yeah,
I picture those like tux seed of T shirts from
the eighties on him.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
Well, if we were naming it today, there's many choices
for a to rename it. What about like, for example,
what if we called it what about the trouble about
that Las Vegas DJ Stephen.

Speaker 2 (01:38:09):
Or You're welcome Ben Mendelssohn where we're actually casting the
Lifetime movie of course. And then I like this one.
It's me Pam. That's right. I forgot about my character
Pam that used to come up all the time. I did,

(01:38:29):
we should bring her back? Ram back? Did we use
Pam in the ten foot Skeleton? Maybe we had to
retire it because that's the most famous Pam? Or was
that deb? I think you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:38:41):
Maybe it was Pam or deb or?

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
Someone? Has this all been real? It's a ten year
fy adieu, my god.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
Well, thank you guys for listening to another episode of
rewind Let's let Elvis and Mimi say goodbye? Where's Elvis? Well,
you guys, thank you for listening, Tell a friend, guys,
thank you for everything you are. You are our light
and our honor honors system and heart and soul an

(01:39:13):
honor system and.

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
Mostly your our honor system. Yeah, if you take a penny,
you leave a penny in our hearts. You've left a penny,
You left a penny in my heart. Don't I'll put
a nickel in yours. Motherfuck, you're gonna double down. Well,
thanks for listening. I don't need, I don't know. Thank

(01:39:36):
you for listening. Thank you for everything. You want to
come and make her debut.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
Maybe she does.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
I mean her triple her triple appearance. Yeah, third times
a charm MEMI stay sexy everybody, and don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
Me bye bye, quickie me me me. It's cute.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
She's the nicole Kidman of cats.

Speaker 5 (01:40:03):
I mean, what cookie cookie?

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
Okay, oh Elvis here he is my cookie.

Speaker 4 (01:40:12):
Yeah,

All Episodes

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 63: Steven's Tuxedo

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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