Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 67: Live At The Egyptian Room - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Yes, every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all
new commentary, updates and insights.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Today we're recapping episode sixty seven, which we named Live
at the Egyptian Room, and that was from our Indianapolis
Live show.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
This episode came out May fourth, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Let's listen to the intro of episode sixty seven.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Hi what Hi, Indianapolis. You're here.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
You came like you say you would in your name,
told us you were coming.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi. Wow, this is so Indianapolis.

Speaker 5 (01:10):
You guys are right up on this stage, aren't you
ship a little man?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Threatening, isn't It's.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Like we're kind of here because I have a big
mouth and uh.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Since Georgia, Georgia has some stuff to say to you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
I didn't. I think I was like being complimentary when
I said what I said. But fuck man, we made
up for it. I think.

Speaker 6 (01:40):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
I mean, I mean, here's the thing we for us.
We're having a private conversation. We're just very slowly catching
on to the fact that you guys listen to it
after we recorded it.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah, it's not just like we're trying to make Steven last. Yeah,
we're trying to make each other laugh and then.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Oh and then we're trying to offend the country.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Huh. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's very easy to do. It turns out, who knew you?
All you had to do is mispronounce some cities and
tell some people their dicks, and then oh, they are there.
There you are, Hey, hello, you're there to make up
for it with entertainment. Look at this gorgeous room. This
is your fucking nuts. You guys, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
When we were in Portland, we were in an old
like high school and it totally felt like we were
like the principals giving everyone a lecture about bullying.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, this feels like we're the ushers at a very
fancy movie theater. Yes, where people are very excited to
look at the screen. I could kick someone in the
forehead right now. I'm sorry that that's the first thing
I really want to do, just so quick.

Speaker 7 (03:02):
It'd be funny, though, it would.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Kind of be funny.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Hey, let's talk about presents, because that's a positive you guys.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay, here's the thing, and this is what's beautiful about
having fans like you, guys, is you'll you'll tweet us
or social media somehow and say if we have a present,
how do we get it to you? And we don't
answer you because we can't tell you secrets like that.
But it doesn't matter, because you get them to us anyway.

(03:28):
Figure it out. It's very hard day's night people getting
onto some kind of thing and putting a towel over
it and sneaking back. I don't know. I'm not sure
how I get it.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
We're adults, so we can buy our own shit. But
when we see a fucking present, we both lose our eyes.
What is it? And then we pull out the car
and we start crying. And then and then we put
the earrings in.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Okay, we're wearing your earrings Silver in the.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
City to say, oh thank you. I hate earrings, and
I put these in because they're so adorable cats and
I love them.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Seems like a lot of people work at Silver in
the City. It's not like your Walmart out here.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Take them off. And then we got and.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Then gorgeous thank you. Look at this cat mug these
are from. But I know then it's this part. This
is lame.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
The Weatherhole cousins gave me this fucking sign the.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Weatherhole girls came together assuming I'm assuming they're girls.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
They used to hate each other and then they bonded
over murder and they got me a Siamese mug. That's
my new it's totally my new stage mug until I
leave it at home, like I love the trip for sure.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
And then they gave you, Oh shit, they gave me,
so this is pretty funny. So Georgia opens that, well,
I was kind of opening everything, let's be honest, a
bit domineering, and so I was pulling, pulling shit out
and then just I would decide if it was for
her or not. So we're like, yeah, undeniably, this is
Georgia's cat travel mug. And then the next thing came
up and we'd read the card that's.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Enjoy coffee and music and music.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
And so I opened this little box and it's a
key chain holder, like a keyholder, and I love, like,
thanks a lot. But then we're like thinking, me and
Georgia and Vince are kind of standing there and we're
just like, there's gotta be more to it, and there
fucking was because you unsnap. It was like a little
triangle shaped leather thing you unsnap it and inside was

(05:29):
a beautiful silver guitar pick that had SSDGM engraved on it.
I started crying.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's true. We had to redo our makeup.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
We had to bring the whole team from Max back in.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
That makes me think because I want to mention, like
how many messages and emails we get whenever we're touring
of like really sweet girls being like I'm a makeup artist,
I'm a hairdresser, and I would love to do your
makeup and hair for that, you know, And it's like
such a sweet offer, and I fucking love getting my
hair makeup done. We want it so bad, but you
don't under sam until like five fifty nine.

Speaker 7 (06:04):
Is that a time?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yes, we're getting we're freaking the fuck out and getting
ready and finishing our RD piping.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
There's a lot of typing at five fifty nine.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
This is it. Whenever we get asked like how much
so how much research goes into you know, how much
time do you spend on each one? And it's like, no,
we're not like that. We're back were we didn't finish college.
We're terrible at homework.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
We care and we love research. We love it and
we care about it. We do and also we save
it till the very end. We save it. We had
we push it right into our blowout time yep, and
right into our We could have had such gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Eyeshadows flowing lock.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
I mean we would have been to we would have
been Kendall and the other one Kardashian. But no, we're
like trying to do our book report the night before.
Every single time.

Speaker 7 (06:51):
It's like that, huh so, thank you for the offers.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, we're not gonna we I mean, look, we're fucking
we're living high on the home professionals offers and we're
just scraping through like feral children. I would like to
point this out so as you know, we talk about
our fancy outfits that we like to get for the tour.
We like to really dress it up for you as
much as possible. This dress I got last night again,

(07:17):
last minute, and I saw it. I was like magic,
It's all coming together for me. It's one of those
dresses that has a built in slip which then turns
into a puzzle when you're putting it on. Ladies, back
me up. This is I can't believe I made it
into this dress, is what I'm saying. There was like
seven different ways you could do it. And it's also

(07:39):
sewn on, because at one point I was gonna rip
the fucking thing out. I was just like, get rid
of this slip there, and I don't give a shit.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Did you ever do the thing when you try to
put a dress? I like, fucking like I hate the
extra step of putting a dress on basically under a.

Speaker 7 (07:51):
Dress, So I'll do like a slip.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
So I'll do the thing where like they're together and
I'll try to put them on it once and it
takes four times as long to get it on because
you're just.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Like a low do this beat the system a lot
of them. Also, you guys have seemed to have a
lot of static electricity here quite a bit. Is that
one of is that one of the things you're is
that one of your outputs, whatever you call it, is
that how you make money around here is fucking up
my hair?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Real, go my god, does the city run on it?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's my dress is permanently stuck my dress. It's like
my dress is scared and is grabbing my leg. Usually
I like a little more flow around this area. It
looks like I just came out of a pond.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
I meant to put heels on before we came out
forgot anyway, are.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Those your show slippers? Yeah they're very cute. Yeah they are.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Now I'm just so cood because one time you were like,
those shoes you have on look like those socks you
put on undershoes on stage. She said that, and now
I'm like terrified that that's what these always look like.
But there's there's some shit going on with I.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Think I meant it as a compliment. Oh who knows
the way when things? I'm out of me with it? Yeah,
I mean, who am I to say anything? I'm wearing
high heeled clothes right now, I'm wearing I'm wearing boot
cloths with what. Now turn out, now that the light's
around me to be a navy what? It did not

(09:20):
look like that in the store.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
I'm trying to be fancy. It looks cool.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
They won't let me be fancy.

Speaker 7 (09:28):
It looks like you did it on purpose.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
I have heels that are like that high, and every
single time when I go to leave my hotel room,
I'm like getting ready of course, rushed, little typing over here,
blow drying over here, run, run run, And then I
look and there's like shoe choices and I'm like, fuck you,
I'm putting you honest, I do it every time.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
No, I'm sure this was a subconscious thing that I
did with I was like, no, vintage heels, vintage black heels,
you can go fuck themselves.

Speaker 7 (09:53):
Yeah these are gross.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
Oh, Indianapolis, you guys just charmed the shit out of me.
Today when near my hotel there's a soup store, I
can tell you this.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
What a soup store?

Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, and you know I love stupid, not stupid, but
puns in general.

Speaker 7 (10:09):
It's called supremacy. What I could not stop laughing about that.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
I made Vince ride it down backstage and I just
looked at it and just started cracking out.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Supremacy seems like it could be slightly problem in this
day and age.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah, I mean it went through my head.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
White bean supremacy, stop it. Stop it.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Well, when I was a kid, my first record store,
I didn't realize till I was grown up, and I went, oh,
that's not good. Was called vinyl solution. Oh oh, I
did it. My fourteen year old brain wasn't like, they
don't want you here, Georgia, but little.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Jewish girls walking in I like punk rock.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, they're like, we don't like you. No, that's pretty
fucking clever. How could you not like me?

Speaker 2 (10:57):
I have a little big deals baby, Georgia.

Speaker 7 (11:02):
Should we sit down?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, let's sit down. This is the part where it
gets really official. This is a nice chair.

Speaker 7 (11:08):
Who she It's like a conference chair.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
This is a high class. You should see some of
the chairs that we sit in nice shows. I swear
to god, it's like a guy came up real quick
right before the show. It was just like, but this
is like Tony Robbins ordered these a couple of years ago.
I left them behind.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Thank you. Oh my god? Am I sitting on Tony Robbins?
But that is so amazing.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
There's someone else that loves to say fuck, that's you.

Speaker 7 (11:36):
Really don't he screamed in people's faces.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, he's all about it. He thinks it's very freeing
travel mag Travel.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
What does it taste like water? I have had too
much caffeine at this point in my life. Right now today, now,
sugar free red Bull, that's listening? Rich Okay, okay, but supremacy.

(12:04):
Can I tell you about my pizza place in my neighborhood?
And I was a kid maybe this started at all.
It's called Sergeant Pepperoni's Jesus Christ. I just appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
You've loved it since you were child. M hm, Well,
everything in my town was just like grocery store. Our
grocery store is called food City. Like you didn't. You
didn't have to have an imagination of any kind. You
were just like, yeap, it's a bunch of food in there.
We're going to get some for ourselves. We'll come back
later and get more love food City.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Can we tell them about our murder? Like my murder
and the snapho it's Stephen's fault.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
It's fault. Shout out to Stephen.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
I mean I could make this about it's totally his fault.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
So we because we, as you know, we don't tell
each other the stories, the crimes that we're going to
talk about right now, we don't tell them beforehand.

Speaker 7 (13:05):
It's not faked y genuinely a.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Surprise her not acting so last night, I didn't check
in or even think about telling Stephen who. So Steven's
the middleman. We both tell Stephen who are going, and
then if there is any overlap, he lets the second.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Person know which there hasn't been thus far, never has been.
Never Like, am I cool doing so and so? And
he's like you're good always. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well last night, I uh, I think I checked in
with Stephen around one thirty am because I was like, well,
here's the thing I'm here's my person, and also can
you find me pictures? And I was I was less
checking and more bossing, of course, and he was like, ooh,
we've got some overlap. And I was like, what the

(13:53):
bus had already worked on one, I'd already worked on it.
I'd actually and this is why I don't work on things.
The seventh grader in me says, this is why I
don't try.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Uh So, now you know my guy, then I.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Know your guy's and then I had to put my
own together real fast. And this is a true story.
I when I got to my hotel room finally I
sat down, I was like, Okay, I had on the
plane with my two businessmen on either side of me.
We're all doing our business, me typing about murder them

(14:30):
stocks bonds so much better. They could have both been poets.

Speaker 7 (14:37):
Who knows.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Who knows? That's very true. So what I did was like,
just like, because you can never please never believe that
you can actually get the Internet on a plane. That's
such a fucking lie. Southwest is like Wi Fi here
and Wi Fi there, And I was like, yeah, I
doubt it, And so I just cut and paste of

(15:00):
like thirty pages from murder Pedia about my person and
then I put it in a document. So on the plane,
I was just bowlding the areas that I wanted to
talk about. And what a gorgeous document it was, Everybody,
what an amazing amount of work I can do when
I apply myself.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, like I mean, when you work on your murder
it's mine is like a fucking mess of like different
sizes of fun and different fonts and like blacked out
and then read it out.

Speaker 7 (15:26):
Yeah, it's just such a mess.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
It always like Verdonna always comes up as a choice.
So it's like I'm just typing in Verdonna font. Do
you hate your eyes? It's awful looking? Anyway, go with times.
It's a classic. So Georgia, I always do you.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
Every bucking it's so? Is that true? Never admitted that.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
That's for you, Indianapolis, Yes, inside secrets.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
I mean, if it's cute, it's fine. It's just like
a little just go.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
You know, dude, I would fucking if there was a
Karen and it looked like weird Twigs, I'd beat my
whole document. I wouldn't be like, it's gorgeous. I love it.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, yeah, maybe there will be on end someday.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Uh that's the dream to get a font. So anyhow,
I sit down to do my thing, or I'm gonna
take my bold things that I worked on hard on
the plane and put them on my brand new document.
I titled them both the same thing. So when it
came up and said there's already a document that's this
do you want to replace oh? I said yes. And

(16:34):
so instead of having pages and pages of bolded information,
I had two paragraphs that were like anyway, everybody, And
I was like, what the fuck? And it was five
point fifteen pm, hadn't showered yet, emergency situation.

Speaker 7 (16:50):
And here we are and here we go.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
So we're gonna take an hour break and let me
right back and if I.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Even wants to email us some ideas now.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Hold tight, not true? Uh, it might be me.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
You're right, yes, I think it is. Yes, from just yesterday.
Isn't that weird yesterday? Or no, today, Tuesday. It came
in today, it's today, it came out today. We recorded
on Tuesday, and I don't remember any of it. We're
already getting like a couple of like put quotes in
and I'm like, I don't.

Speaker 7 (17:20):
Remember talking about pinching penis is, Like, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (17:24):
It's all a blur.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
I probably said that because that sounds like something I
would say, oh, except for yeah, okay, fine, Cherry Hill
is in New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
I don't know if you guys caught that part, but
I did want My murder took place in Cherry Hill,
New Jersey. And the entire time I said it was
Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania, I must have said it. I'm from California.
We don't have states that closed. So if you're talking
you're talking about going to Philadelphia, it's like, well, you
must be in Pennsylvania. There's there's no other way.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
I don't I'm already lost of what I'm saying right now.
Your whole murder was in the wrong state.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Uh huh oh.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
I didn't realize that.

Speaker 8 (18:04):
Huh.

Speaker 7 (18:04):
I thought you just like mentioned this other city once.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
No.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Fuck no, I was like the Cherry Hill Mall in Pennsylvan.

Speaker 5 (18:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
I was like I was acting like that guy that
does the Mark Twain Show where I was just like,
listen up other round everybody, and let me tell you
about Cherry Hill Pennsylvain.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Oh, well, how many people are in the state of
New Jersey and how many people listen to our podcast
because we just lost all of those listeners.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well did we lose them or now do they have
something to fight about? Which is their favorite fucking thing
in the world to do that? New Jersey's like, I'm sorry, but.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
I thought you meant people who listened to the podcast
or favorite thing to do is fight you people in
New Jersey.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I get it, New Jersey. Yeah, subset, subset.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Okay, okay, yeah, they're probably gonna just listen to your
more mistakes and correct about them, probably because we make
a couple mistakes.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Listen and you know what happens and cut to We're
in New Jersey, right, I mean you guys know if
anybody knows it's we fuck up, then we show up.

Speaker 7 (19:03):
Yeah. Hey, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
We're back. And I have no idea what is the
Indianapolis drama. I don't think you're apologizing.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
For I think I just like threw it out there
as like, you know, like a city, you wouldn't go
to a random city.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
But then we went there.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
It was fucking coolest, the best, and we went back, yeah,
because it was so good. So I think we made
it up to them.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, and I think again, not to brag, but I
think we're pretty good at being like, hey, we fucked up,
so don't be mad at us because we're here.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yeah, which is great.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, just like throwing out the name of the city.
It's not like I would use New York or Boston. Right,
I'm doing it again.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
You're asking for it. Also, like I know what this
live show was, and then I went on the internet
to look at pictures of the Egyptian room. This is
the show where the guy was sitting in the front
row with his fan and his fur coat. This was
it Indianapolis.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
He keeps coming up, and we hope he comes to
our live shows.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Because I kept saying it was Saint Louis, but I
just had the area wrong. I'm almost positive it was
the Egyptian.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
I believe you.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, anything different now about our pre show, and we
have some like our pre show live show prep is
so much better now because we have people to help
us do things.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
People are helping us, and that makes all the difference.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Huge, and we kind of like understand the procedure a
little bit more.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, kind of what we're up again, what we're about
to go do, and what we should focus on, what
we should not focus on.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Right, like fake eyelashes definitely, Yes.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
You have to dedicate your time. You must like put
your foundation garments on in enough time where that's not
the last minute panic. Right. Also the idea that we
had what seemed to be an endless conversation where it
was like supremacy the whole. It's so problematic and hilarious
because it's like, basically the clock was just just up

(20:58):
on conversations like this being something people don't freak.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Out and joke around about.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yes, it was like white being supremacy, where I'm like,
what are we fucking doing? What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
We're being our sweet innocent little selves.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Not knowing that in eight years the Nazis would be
at the fucking door.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
That's right, Well, God dall you that supremacy, the innocent
one is still open and thriving, and they now go
by small batch soups sa by supremacy. So they got
the fucking memo too.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
You know what happened. I bet you in that sign
small batch soups is huge and buy supremacy spremacy.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
It's a whisper to say, look, we all made mistakes.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Just ask supplantation how they're handling things. Jesus, Oh do
you remember those stage chairs.

Speaker 7 (21:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
I remember the stage chairs from a week ago.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Yeah, for real. It's such a funny blur to be
on stage and the things you do remember and focus
on and the things you don't absolutely because I think
in the Egyptian room, if it is the place I remember,
it kind of looked like a big conference hall, so
people were sitting in individual chairs. It wasn't a theater.
It was a music venue and a lot of other
and they.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Put like folding chairs out, and shit, that's such a
different vibe.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
And they weren't even folding chairs. They were like straight
back banquette chairs kind of things. So that's I started
getting that panicky feeling of they're not gonna like us.
They're they're here for like a Tony Robbins, you know,
conference and not us. And the panic began and that's
why that guy meant so much to me. Yeah, house
right stage left, he was fucking bringing the SaaS fan

(22:34):
just yes, letting us know, joke by joke, how great
we were doing. Where I was just like, oh, this
is not only not going badly, this couldn't be better.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Even though the chick next to him is getting sciatica
from those chairs. He's having a grand old time and.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
That's all she's suffering in silence, right fine with me.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
And we did some amazing stories at this show.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, it's pretty had some choices, pretty goddamn epic. So
let's just get right into it because I think this
is one of your most up stories. This is Karen
covering the story of Bell Gunnis.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
All right, should do this?

Speaker 3 (23:13):
What's oh this is my favorite murder. That's Karen Date.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. We
needed to get a big third cheer going before the
reading start.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Pump you guys up.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, well I went. If I couldn't do Georgia's,
then I had to go to number two, who I didn't.
The only reason I didn't pick her is because she's
an oldie. She's like a vintage one.

Speaker 7 (23:44):
You like old timing.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
I do love an oldie, but I'd done a couple recently,
so I thought I was going to update and try
to be more current. Nopes, I got slapped back down
by fate and here I am.

Speaker 7 (23:55):
I swooped in hard on this story.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
You had to like. This guy is the worst thing
I've ever read about.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
He's pretty fucking awful. But so is our girl, Bell Gunnis. Right, everybody.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
You know her?

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Right?

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Horrible God.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
She loved to kill people and burn things down. Is
that a local thing or was that just her taste?
Because she she really loved to burn. I mean, she
was what they call a firebug, all right. Some of
her nicknames were Lady Bluebeard.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Oh that's gotta be sad, like make you feel bad
about yourself.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, that's gonna that's gonna get you to the Tweezers
and the Magnifying Mirror real quick.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Why did they call me?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I shave every day? The Laporte black Widow. Uh right, Laporte,
the Mistress of murder Farm.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
That's fun.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
That actually seems like a British procedural that I would watch. Dude,
does the mistress of moodiphone, Welcome acts alright, And Hell's
Bell that's cool. That seems more like a.

Speaker 7 (25:05):
It's like a roller Derby name.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Totally is. Also, there's a really great female ACDC cover
band called Hell's Bell. That's unbelievable. KICKI it's amazing. Yeah,
alright anyway. Belle Sorenson Gunnis was born November eleventh, eighteen
fifty nine. She was from Norway. She left there in
eighteen eighty one at the age of twenty one to

(25:29):
move to Chicago like her sister did, so they emigrated
to America. She became a servant, and she worked as
a servant for a couple of years, and then she
married her first husband, Mad's Sorensen, three years later in
eighteen eighty four. Mads is it? Mad's does it? Eh?
The Norwegians have the name m A DS Mods. It's mods.

Speaker 7 (25:50):
That's right, so much?

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Okay, Mad's is kind of hilarious name.

Speaker 6 (25:55):
All right.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Anyway, the two of them marry and they opened the
candy store. And how how fucked up do you have
to be to have an unsuccessful candy store? Because they
did it. They sucked at candy. How do you do?
How do you do it.

Speaker 7 (26:15):
They sold like, what's a gross flavor of.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Only like those buttons on paper. It's just like buttons.
They called their candy store buttons on paper.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Just one giant roll of buttons on paper.

Speaker 7 (26:26):
Kids kept getting smashed by.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
I tried to get one.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
They're just cutting weird pieces out randomly with the store,
all right, So they since their candy store fails, it
strangely burned down almost a year later after they opened it.
It's burning candy smell it. So Belle and Matt's collected

(26:53):
their insurance on that business and they bought a new home.
And then they had two biological children, Myrtle in eighteen
ninety seven and Lucy in eighteen ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Those are cute. When is Myrtle gonna come back?

Speaker 2 (27:05):
It can't. It's that you will immediately be called a turtle.
Grammar school. Please, things through. You have to go through
the rhyming of the children's names. Sorry, I didn't mean
to attack you.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
I mean a fucking kid.

Speaker 7 (27:20):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
They also had a foster child named Jenny Olson. They
also had two other biological children that did not survive infancy,
and both of them were diagnosed to have had extreme colitis,
which has the same symptoms as trick nine points. But
they're babies and this is a family, and so the

(27:44):
doctors are like, they have extreme colitis everybody. Interestingly, I
mean both of those children's lives were insured.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
As you do ensure your baby are I mean a
tiny baby in eighteen fucking whenever the ship. Yeah, like that.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Baby was going to be the most amazing like stick
and stick and hoop baby, stick and the hoop baby.
Look at that arm ensure that arm. I was gonna
call it stick and circle. Jesus, Jesus, all right. So

(28:25):
then on July thirtieth, nineteen hundred, Mads died. He also
had some colitis like problems.

Speaker 7 (28:36):
Uh runs in the family.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, that weird poisoning runs in this family. And interestingly,
he died on July thirtieth, which was the only day
his two life insurance policies overlapped.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Mad.

Speaker 7 (28:50):
Oh wow, it's asking for trouble.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Lucky, lucky lucky. So the swordson's family doctor had been
treating him Mad for an enlarged heart, and so he
the first doctor was like, this is absolutely strict nine poisoning.
And then the family doctor was like, no, no, no, no,
sit down, young lady. He died of heart failure, and

(29:13):
so she applies for insurance money the day after the funeral,
as you do, and she gets eighty five hundred dollars,
which is a little over two hundred thousand dollars in
today's money.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Not for another candy store, probably, no, no, no no.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
She learned her candy lesson, so she uses the money
to purchase a forty two acre farm in Laporte, Indiana.
At the end, that scared this shit out of me.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
We were gonna have to come back.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
I mean we were about to leave and come back
out the second apology tour. Damn, so much harder than
it looks. Okay, Laporte, Indiana, at the end of McClung Road,
everybody talks about what's slung.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yeah, oh my god, I love the club.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
So she moves in, and then it's reported that soon
after both the boat and carriage houses burned down. So
maybe that's just what she did to get used to
being living in a place.

Speaker 7 (30:25):
You know what I mean, It's like, doesn't feel like
me yet.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
I don't know. I want to warm it up somehow,
I want to literally warm it.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Oh. Also, I just wrote here very randomly. Reports say
that she was six feet tall and two hundred pounds. No,
I think this is a that's like a Paul Bunion
thing of like. I think she was so horrifying that
people are like and she's no norvils. Well, I turned
into one of those things.

Speaker 7 (30:56):
Which was tall back then, because everyone was like, no
one got higher than five four.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Every one was like, my bones, my rickets. She's like,
I'm doing great, I'm from Norway, and I'll kill you
for no reason.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
All right.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
So as she's getting ready to she buys the farm
in La Porte. She's getting ready to move from Chicago
to La Porte. She becomes reacquainted with a recent widower
named Peter Gunnis, who also is from Norway. She had
that kind of you know, local Norway hookup, and so
they get married in La Porte on April first, nineteen
oh two. A week after the ceremony, Peter's infant daughter

(31:38):
died of uncertain causes while alone in the house with Belle.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Then on December of nineteen oh two, Peter himself met
with a quote unquote tragic accident. According to Belle, he
was reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove. Already,
there's too many nouns in this, like when you're when
you have to lie, and we always do. Just kind
of keep the nouns to amends. You don't need slippers

(32:07):
in this story at all. He was just near the
stove like he always is kitchen.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Doesn't even like it's a given that the stove is
in the kitchen.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
That's right, don't don't specify what we already know and.

Speaker 7 (32:23):
Notes you guys, when you kill her, that's right.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
This whole thing's gonna turn on us so fucking hard,
but it'll be fun until then.

Speaker 7 (32:32):
So many presents, until.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
He's reaching for his slippers next to the kitchen stove,
when he's scalded with brine brine again. Uh. She later
declared that, in fact, part of a sausage grinding machine
had fell from a high shelf and hit him on
the head.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Past sausage machines?

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Is this kitchen like pee wee herman? It's like, what
is happening? Belle? Then that anvil came from across the room. Okay,
so a year later, Peter's brother, gust.

Speaker 7 (33:12):
Is that right.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Should have read this over gust Of wind, he came down.
He takes Peter's older daughter, swan Hilda. Wow, when's swan
Hilda coming back? Everybody?

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Wow?

Speaker 7 (33:29):
Wow, Yeah, when's that one coming back?

Speaker 2 (33:32):
When you're gonna hear that yelled across McDonald's play place, Swanhilda, No.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Don't lick that.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Basically, get away from the Brian swan Hilda. Swan Hilda's uncle,
Peter's brother comes Gust, comes down, gets her and gets
her out.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
He's like, sorry, as were usted.

Speaker 7 (34:03):
Soup premacy. Sorry sorry, go on, no no, never apologize,
try not.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Uh so she uh so she gets out. The uncle's
like something's going on.

Speaker 7 (34:18):
Oh, He's like, get the fuck out of here.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Yeah, okay, get the one remaining living child of a
once flourishing family.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Good.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
So yeah. So the coroner reviews his case, his his
death and announces unequivocally or unequivocally, I'm not sure that
he was murdered and his stepdaughter Jenny, her stepdaughter Jenny,
So I'm sorry. Uh His his daughter is overheard at

(34:48):
school saying, my mama killed my papa. She's hid him
with a meat cleaver, and he died just on the swings. Chilling,
fucking juice box.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Kids don't lick that, so.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
In the candy store. So she's she's brought before the
corner's jury. So the corner does have an inquest because
he's like, this is incredibly suspicious. And when they tried
to talk to her about it, she denies ever having
said anything. And then Belle convinces the corner that she's
absolutely innocent and she didn't do anything.

Speaker 7 (35:28):
He believes her. Does he marry her?

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Uh, he doesn't. He does not marry her. But then
I'm thinking, if she really was if she really was
six feet tall, two hundred pounds, she must have been
an amazing like presence to be able to be like,
oh no, no, I didn't kill him, goodbye. Like can
you imagine this kind of like a giant test, just
being like murdering and then being like, but don't blame me, goodbye.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Uh has a duck through the door on the way
out if it's like, but.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Everyone drops, Okay, this is taking too long, so Belle
tells neighbors soon after she explains Jenny's gone off to
finishing school.

Speaker 7 (36:13):
Good never good Uh finished.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, that's right. So Belle runs her farm from nineteen
oh three to nineteen oh six, and in nineteen oh
seven she hires a farm hand named Ray Lambfeir. I
think we do have a picture of Ray Lampfeir. He's
got a mustache.

Speaker 7 (36:32):
Nope, she also had a mustache.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
You weren't wrong, but that was Belle.

Speaker 7 (36:39):
Nope, that's a good one though.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
That's the farm we just keep going through. There's ah,
what if there's like ninety pictures, it'd be like, and
there's me, there's summer in the there's Ray Lambfeir.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
It looks chill.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
He looks like he looks like seventy percent of the
bartenders in Los Angeles. No, I don't want to come
see your improv team.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (37:04):
Oh I just the look in his eyes so dead.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Let me help you with your phone. Get this. We
need to help you.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
So that guy.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
And also, could we just really quick, could we go
back to the picture of Belle herself just to see
what everyone's why everyone is so in love? There she
is her? Yeah, Oh she's pretty.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
She's not? Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (37:31):
She's pretty?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
She pretty?

Speaker 4 (37:36):
Is?

Speaker 6 (37:37):
She is?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
She pretty?

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Sheep pretty?

Speaker 2 (37:40):
She pretty?

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Even I'm like, oh, maybe.

Speaker 8 (37:42):
She didn't do it?

Speaker 2 (37:46):
You know what you guys, I think she's in a suit.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Look at her. Look at she.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I mean she does have a hat face. And that's
I can't say the same thing.

Speaker 7 (37:55):
I mean the ruffles.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Anyhow, So Rayland Lamfier shows up with the fire in
his eyes and the insane mustache, and he is immediately
in love with her, so he'll do anything she asks,
all right. So that's what's happening the feel around the farm.
And at the same time, Bell Gunnis puts an advertisement

(38:19):
in the newspaper, in all the Chicago daily papers and
in I guess some of the Norwegian papers. And this
is the It's basically kind of like a personal ad.
And hers reads personal comely widow who owns a large
farm in one of the finest districts in Laporte County, Indiana,

(38:40):
desires to make the acquaintance of a gentleman equally well
provided with view of joining fortunes. No replies by letter
considered unless sender is willing to follow answer with personal visit.
Triflers need not apply. Hey, I don't want know scaddd
mm mmmm mmmmm did it? And that bat Gandara side that's.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
Best friend's farm.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Trying to burn down a horse. She tried to burn
that horse. Triflers need not apply. Is our next shirt
ship Steven even get on that, Stephen, do it now?

(39:34):
I mean right, I mean she's not wrong. Yes, she
murders children, Yes, she murders children and adults.

Speaker 7 (39:41):
Yes, but but also triflers need not play.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
They simply need it.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
They needn't.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Okay, Okay. So now there's a stream of like middle
aged mostly Norwegian male suitors that are coming to the farm,
bringing there that a lot of them are just clearing
out their bank accounts, they're selling their houses, they're they're
cashing it all in and bringing their money to this
woman that oftentimes she would she would be exchanging letters

(40:15):
with them, and they were like kind of you know,
love lovish letters, my dearest. Exactly, they got it exactly.

Speaker 7 (40:24):
I don't know how. I'm not a poet.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
So ray Lamfeir is getting really jealous because these these
men are showing up and they're not leaving in the
bad way. Uh So she fires him on February third,
nineteen o eight, and shortly after she presents herself at
the Laporte Courthouse and declares that ray Lamfear was not

(40:53):
in his right mind and was a menace to the public,
and she actually ends up convincing local authorities to hold
a sanity hearing against him. He's pronounced sane and released.
Hugh Gunnis is back a few days later to complain
to the sheriff that Lambfear had visited her farm and
argued with her, and that she contended he posed a

(41:14):
threat to her family. He posts a threat to her family.
She's killed everyone in her family, everybody, and she has
limb Fear arrested for trespassing. Then she tells a lawyer
in Laporte that she fears for her life and the
lives of her children. She said that Ray Lamfear threatened

(41:37):
to kill her and burn her house down. Oh three
fingers pointing back at her. It's a classic.

Speaker 6 (41:45):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
So she makes out a will in case he goes
through with it, and then she leaves her entire entire
estate to her children and uh leaves and then she
pays off mortgage. And she doesn't go to the police
to tell them about Lambfeer's behavior. She's just telling this lawyer.

(42:07):
And then the new she hires a guy named Joe
Maxon to replace lamp Fear in February and in the
early hours of April twenty eighth, nineteen oh eight, he
wakes to the smell of smoke in his room, and
he's on the second floor of the house, and he
opens the door his bedroom door to a sheet of flames.

(42:29):
He's screaming Bell's name, the children's names. He doesn't hear anything,
so he runs out the door in his underwear. He
leaps from a second story window. He barely survives the fire.
He races to town to get help, but by the
time they come, the hook and ladder old fashioned fire
truck comes back. The whole farmhouse is gutted in a

(42:51):
heap of smoking ruins. And that's that picture of all
the people's standing round. That's what's left. And in there
they find the bodies. Yeah, there's four bodies, three child
children's bodies. The children are all on their beds, and
then one of a grown woman, but she doesn't have
a head. Huh. So they're like, oh, this is terrible.

(43:18):
The house burned down and the Gunnis has all died
inside of it. Well, the doctors measure the remains and
making allowances for the missing neck and head. Who wrote
that Obviously they're not going to measure invisible neck and head.
So they say that the corpse is a woman who

(43:38):
stood five foot three and weighed no more than one
hundred and fifty pounds. Their neighbors said that Bell was
probably five nine, but she did weigh like, you know,
one eight, two hundred pounds whatever. So they had they
actually had a dressmaker that was in Chicago that they
contacted who had her exact measurements, brought them back and
this body was not gunnis in the fact police work

(44:02):
many yeah, shit, yeah, in the in turn of the century,
police work, let's get positive. But they do find Belle's
dentures in the ashes, and so because of that the
police can't They're like, well, this then is her? Like
they did everything else. Everything else is like nah, you know,

(44:23):
I mean, we heard she was five eight. But it's
the teeth that really prove it.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
The teeth that didn't stay in her mouth most of
the time, the teeth that mostly were in a glass.

Speaker 7 (44:35):
Removed from your face.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
They were in a glass at the top of where
her neck was appropriate. All right now one of her
earliest victims. So I will read you this list of
people who did show up at this farm thinking that
they were in love with a woman and they're going
to live the rest of their life on a beautiful

(44:59):
farm with her. And who never left. One of them
had a brother who when his brother never came back
and he never heard from him again, he showed up
at the farm and Bell was like, oh, he never
came here. And he the whole time was like, this
woman's dirty. I don't like it. There's something about So
he went after this fire, he went to the sheriff
and was like, you have got to investigate bus. This

(45:20):
woman's insane. So Sheriff Smutzer was the man's name, Yeah,
the Smutsters. He takes a dozen men back to the farm.
They begin to dig, and on May third, nineteen oh eight,
they unearthed the body of Jenny Olson, this step daughter.
They also found small bodies of two unidentified children, and

(45:40):
subsequently the body of Andrew Hellgellian, who his brother was
the one aasel, probably not was the one who is
making they find his body. And then as they begin digging,
they just keep finding bodies. And so these are the
they found. Ol A. B. Bunsburg of Iola, Wisconsin. Oh yeah,

(46:14):
did you hate him? Did I pronounce it wrong?

Speaker 3 (46:19):
I went, good luck with this.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
It's gonna get worse. I mean, there's just a fucking
shipload of Scandinavian names. I'm not gonna be able to pronounce.
Thomas Lindbow, Henry Girlholtz uh.

Speaker 6 (46:37):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
They found they find his watch in the ground, Olaf's
thinner Hude. This is like dead, this is like sorry,
this is also like a Betty White's character on Golden Girls.
Or I'm just like, oh, you mean when Olaf's fer
nude went down to the farm and never came back.

(47:00):
John mo he was there too, Olaf Lynde Bloom. I mean,
it just goes it's insane, it goes on and on,
and she ended up. They think that she killed over
forty people, men, women, and children. And this is my
kind of my favorite part of it. Well there and

(47:23):
there's lots of people that are like unnamed or somebody
would like came by. There's you know, it's bad. And
they they actually didn't dig the whole farm at the time.
They found kind of the bodies that they knew proved
that she really was a killer, but they didn't actually
excavate the entire farm, so they they know of forty
but they think there could be tons more because she

(47:43):
had many, many hundreds of acres to bury.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Body.

Speaker 7 (47:48):
God, I'm dying too.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Does anybody have a shovel?

Speaker 7 (47:53):
That's so much fun?

Speaker 2 (47:54):
But she's gone, she's disappeared, so nobody ever. There's lots
of sightings of her, and there's people who are like,
there's detectives who think they see her in Mexico City
and New York City and all over the place, but
no one ever actually finds her really, uh huh?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Hell?

Speaker 2 (48:12):
And then but in nineteen thirty one, a woman whose
name was Esther Carlson was arrested in Los Angeles for
poisoning August Lindstrum for money, and two people who had
known Bell Guinness claimed to recognize her from the photographs,
but the identification was never proved, and Esther Carlson died
in jail while awaiting trial. WHOA, and that is the

(48:34):
story of Bell Gunnis.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
Everybody, yeah, man, that's good. Never found her.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
They never found her. She gone away with she got away.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
They did more.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah while she between Yes, oh yeah, now she's good
at it totally. What if or what if she didn't?
What if she stopped murdering? She's like I'm gonna get
this candy thing right.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
And then she became missus Rabou, Thank you com.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Okay, we are back.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
It's an old case, Karen. Any updates, Nope, none, but
here's the update I do have. After our twenty seventeen
show in Indianapolis, Harold Scheckter released Hell's Princess, The Mystery
of Bell Gunnis, Butcher of Men, and that became a
best selling biography. It's still considered one of the most
detailed accounts of Bell's story. So it's everything I needed

(49:38):
to tell the story and did not have. A year later.
All the other true crime podcasters get to benefit from
Harold Scheckter's book. Also, the personal ad sign off Triflers
Need Not Apply that was from Bell Gunnis's hand directly.
We made merch.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
Everybody loved it.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
It was a huge It was big. Triflers Need Not
Apply was like a big moment. It was great. So yeah,
I think this was an epic show kind of all
the way around totally. And we're only halfway through because
George is about to bring the thunder with one of
my favorite cases.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
It keeps getting more and more intention and becoming more
and more awful and the details. It's almost like I
don't think a lot of people really knew about it
before we started the podcast. Yeah, and it's just getting
to be one of those like, oh shit, this is
a heavy fucking hitter.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, story big time. So George is about to tell
everybody the story of Herb Baumeister.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
All Right, you fucking sickos, you ready for this song
because this one's fucked up.

Speaker 7 (50:41):
I bet you guys know what it is already.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Herb Borrow my sir, gotta be screw that Herb Bommeister.
There we go, uh fucking herb Born.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Uh can I say that one something really quick? Yes,
there's a picture when you google her A Baumeister and
you google images. He it's hilarious. I mean whatever, But
there's one picture and I don't it's the cover of
a book someone wrote. It's that mask, that skin mask?
What is that?

Speaker 3 (51:15):
I don't know?

Speaker 7 (51:16):
It comes up, It comes up.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
And I click off of it really fast. But then
sometimes I wait like three seconds, then I click off
it really fast.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
It's not I don't have it.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
It's such a bummers on you guys. That's your time, Steven,
leave it up the whole time. It looks like anything
you've seen in ed Gain school, except for that it's
melting on purpose to.

Speaker 7 (51:38):
Fuck with you.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
It's so upsetting.

Speaker 7 (51:40):
It could be I don't think that's his.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
You don't think he made it.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (51:44):
I don't know if he did that.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Was it just a piece of art?

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Probably unrelated, you know, how like, okay, how.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Stuff gets in there and all of a sudden you're like, oh, Cogan,
come on, I'm trying to look up a murder.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
One of the first photos that comes up when you
google my name that I do it every nighter is
a Miley Cyrus photo. And I don't know what you lucky,
I know, okay. April seventh, nineteen forty seven. Herb Baumeister
is born in suburban Westfield, near Indianapolis. Childhood's normal, but

(52:18):
his adolescence he begins exhibiting.

Speaker 7 (52:19):
Anti social behavior.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Acquaintances later well call him playing with dead animals and
urinating on a teacher's desk. Oh, like, was he standing
on it being down or was he just like up
in the air.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
It was like a waterfall from his desk. Yeah, yeah,
Because then that's not anti social. It's like the coolest
guy in class.

Speaker 7 (52:40):
Yeah, it's like very social. Yeah, I have so many
questions about that.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
A friend says he would say strange things like wonders
what it would be like to taste human urine, not interested,
and had a fascination with dead animals. As a teenager,
he's diagnosed with sk it'zophrenia, but he doesn't receive further
psychiatric treatment, which seems so hard to believe because anyway,
he's just he was successful in a lot of ways, right, No,

(53:09):
if that's okay.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Like he could afford doctors and stuff. You mean no,
that he was schizophrenic at all. Oh oh he went
on to like have normal jobs and stuff.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Yeah, like unmedicated, okay. As an adult he starting to
a successful murderer.

Speaker 7 (53:22):
Seems like a hard thing to be.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
As an adult he starts to exhibit increasingly hard, bizarre behavior.
But of course someone still marries him always. I have
a photo.

Speaker 7 (53:33):
I think there's a photo of the two of them together.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
The Bester family.

Speaker 7 (53:38):
No, no, only let's let's look at him for there.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
There they are, Stephen, you did not put these in order, Stephen,
you didn't put these in the order. I didn't tell
you to put them in never told you about that
one works. I think there's one more behind it. Yeah,
there we are. Oh like, she's that's right.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
He put a ring on that crazy mother.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Fuck her and he's like, I'm gonna killt lot of people.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Sure, I'll buy your right. Little does she know.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
He marries Julie Satyr in nineteen seventy one, and they
have three fucking children, although Julie later admits that she
and herb had sex only six times in the twenty
five years they were married. So you can go back
to the one of the family. There we are, look
at those kids, are.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Like, oh fuck, so it's just six times. So it
was two for the kids, three for the kids. Oh
three kids each time took two tries, and that was it.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
That's it. It's all you get, Julie.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
There's a piece of tape down the middle of the bed.
You stay on your side.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yes, but actually she said she never saw him nude,
that he would get dressed in the bathroom, put pajamas
on the bathroom before coming the bed. He was ashamed
of a skinny body. I'm also a fucking psychopath. So yeah,
it's not just like a lot of people are skinny yeah,
a lot of.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
People are, you know, it's kind of the dream for
some A lot of people are like flatting that shit. Yeah,
that's true, making money at it.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
He has a bunch of uh, weird jobs, but his
behavior is always weird and creepy, including urinating on his
boss's desk.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
Wait, he was like, it's me the urinating on the
desk guy.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Kind of his thing again, standing on the floor and
kissing up or standing on the desk, because it's kind
of like like funny if he was standing on the desk, yeah,
you know, but he's on the ground.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
It's like, oh, or was the desk in the bathroom
and it's not his? Hell? Fair, let's be fair, good question, fairness.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
What if in the bathroom after this there's just a
I walked endo p and there's just a desk in
the bathroom. No, taunted.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
They don't need someone's like, Georgia, I'm glad you came
in to see me today. This is your yearly review.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
I never saw him nude. He was skinny, weird job
pete on the desk. Then he found a thrift store
chain in Indianapolis in nineteen eighty eight called Save a Lot.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
This Save a Lot sucks?

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Did you guys know that you used to buy your
fucking ventured shit a fucking murderers shot.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
It was all comfort in pee I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I don't normally do pea and pood jokes. What if?

Speaker 3 (56:40):
What if your like childhood bunk bed was from Save
a Lot? Oh bad memories?

Speaker 7 (56:46):
All of a sudden, your mom, You keep getting blamed.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
You're like, I swear to God, I don't wet the bed.
I know, I'm seven. Can you please listen to me?

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Then why did they smell like pain? It became I'm
super fucking successful, and they open a second location, and
they got super fucking rich. They buy a huge tutor
house in upscale Westfield district called the it's called Fox
Hollow Firms. They have a fucking you live in a
place with a name.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Oh we got rich people here, Yeah, Fox Color.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Firms eighteen and a half acres in an indoor pool,
which depresses me so much.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
It smells so much like chlorina pool.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
They always It just makes me think of like your
divorced dad who's like spending all his money before your
mom can get it.

Speaker 7 (57:34):
It's just like, so he has an indoor pool.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Yeah, it's just like, I don't kids, it's snowing, get
in there, and you're like, but I can't, but I
don't want to do laps. Okay. Then in the nineties
nineteen nineties, gay men in the Indianapolis area start to disappear. Authorities,
of course, blamed it on their lifestyle and they were like,
they ran away to the big city, you know, to
like because so we were we wouldn't like make fun

(57:57):
of them. So that's where they went, and that all
the men were of similar age, height and weight. But
Virgil vander griff who's like a fucking the hero of
the story needs to be played by like Harrison Ford
or some shit.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
He's kind of a vander Griffy type, Virgil Virgil, look
at my earring.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Here's an erring.

Speaker 7 (58:21):
I hate that airring.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
They just call him Griff for fee. Anyways, he's a
retired successful private investigator, which is fucking awesome. And he's
approached by the mother of twenty eight year old Alan
Bursard to ask for help finding her missing son, and
Virgil starts to put the pieces together. Alan was part
of the local gay scene and was last seen leaving
a bar called brothers well, and after party there.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Where it seems like brothers. Something's going on at brother
I don't know. I kind of don't want to know.
It would take too long for an audience to.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Tell us a story. Let's have our bachelorette party. Others right,
that's rd or.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
It burned down and people are upset.

Speaker 7 (59:06):
We don't know, okay.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Well.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Investigating Allan's disappearance, vander Griff stumbles upon the case of
Jeff Jones, who disappeared in mid ninety three, a year earlier,
a year earlier, vanishing from the streets of Indianapolis. The
last disappearance which caused Vandergriff to link all the cases
and convince him that Indianapolis has a serial killer was
when he was convinted by a man named Tony Harris.

(59:29):
I think that's not his real name though, because he
was like, I don't want to be a part of this.
He tells vander Griff that his friend Roger Allan Goodlett
thirty four, had left a gay bar called Our Place
with a man calling himself Brian Smart, and he hadn't
been seen since. So Tony is convinced that Brian Smart
had killed his friend, but When police brush him off,

(59:52):
he takes matters into his own hand. Oh hell ya,
Chuck Norris st Yeah, played by Chuck Norris.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
We've done it. We're casting this thing. We're doing several
jobs at once.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Steven, write those names down. When Tony next sees Brian
Smart at a gay bar, he tricks Smart into taking
him home with him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Shit, yeah, oh he's going under cover lake.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Yeah, well that's not a good idea though.

Speaker 7 (01:00:20):
I know, but it's pretty badass.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
It's insanely badass. Yeah, only got it survived and otherwise, yeah,
it wouldn't be an intense tragedy. Yeah, okay, we all understand.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
We got that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Smart invites Tony back to his house were a cocktail
and a swim. When they get to Brian Smart's house,
a large Tudor Manson mansion, they go for a swim
in the indoor pool and eventually things get weird or
when Smart says, you know what I mean, Yeah, indoor
pool's weird enough weird. I just learned that, so Brian
Smart says, I just learned this really great trick. If

(01:00:56):
you choke someone while you're having sex, it feels really great.
It's not a trick.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
They're like, we were sorry, we were just talking about baseball.

Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
What are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:01:07):
I thought you were going to show me some magic. Yeah,
this is not a magic trick. This is creepy. And
he says if he choke some uh, you really get
a great rush. He says, okay, sounds fun.

Speaker 6 (01:01:20):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
He he showed Brian shows Tony how to pinch the
carotid arteries and says it's such a great buzz. You
should see how someone looks when you're doing it to them.
Their lips change colors, and that's how you can tell
it's working. And you're like, cool, let's make out, Like,
who the fuck was I just want to know you
more now. Yeah. Yeah, So Tony allows Smart to demonstrate

(01:01:44):
on him.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
But Tony's not the private investigator, right, No, Tony's the
dude who's trying to left the gay bar.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Yeah, that dude.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
And he's just like, I'm going I'm going to do
this myself. Yeah, that's awful.

Speaker 7 (01:01:55):
A lot of bad ideas. I'll have a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, maybe thought he could find Okay, go ahead, sorry,
I keep you.

Speaker 7 (01:02:00):
No, it's good. That's the point of this whole podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Oh right, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
So he allows him to do it, but he pretends
to be unconscious before he could pass out, which I
always thought was a fake thing. Eventually, Tony convinced it's
smart to take him back into town. It happens, he
wakes back up, he's like, I'm good, and they're like
he's like, can you take me back to town?

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
And he does and he's like fine, yeah, because he
didn't pass out sexy enough or something. Also, what I
hate is I'm picturing all of it happening in an
indoor pool, so it's all echoey smelling. Yeah, it's like
smells like chemicals, and it's like, now you pass.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
Out, can you just I gotta go a gross, moldy
chase lounge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
One of those signs that says we don't swim in
your toilet, please don't pee in the pool, or.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Active diarrhea if you have it, please don't come in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Active time.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
If you have had active diarrhea in the past twenty
four hours. This is we don't do shit chokes. Yeah,
but it's not it's not who we are.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
No. There's also the one that's like, welcome to our ool.
You might notice there's no p in it. Let's keep
it that way. That's funny signs from the seventies.

Speaker 6 (01:03:10):
Love it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
And then oh and then so he convinced him to
take it back to town. Tony brought this information to Vandergriff,
who I'm sure Tony left some shit out, probably right,
that's like even worse than that. And he also told
Vandergriff about how there were mannequins in the basement where
Smart had his like bar hang area, what do they
call them, like a bachelor murder area. Yeah, mannequins all

(01:03:43):
dressed up in various poses like hanging out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
I'm gonna start crying. I don't like this at all.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Well, when Tony's like, what the fuck's Smart, He's like,
I get lonely down here. They give me company, They
give me company, They give me company. Do you know
what I bet? I bet so. I think he would
bring home clothes from his thrift store. I bet he'd
bring them back, and someone in this audience is wearing them.
One can we bring the house slights up?

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Uh? Do you know how loud? I would start screaming
if we turned a corner. We're like, here's the mannequin room.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
I'd just be like, I mean, especially if you look
like that fucking dude, can we get the closer picture
of her?

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Because that one's another one more bad by himself because
he's got the eyes. He's got the eyes of a
person that Nope, loves mannequins.

Speaker 8 (01:04:46):
They'll find it very I love mannikins. MANI kills people,
but they don't talk.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Herb okay, So he brings us all the info to
the police. Virgil Vandergriff brings us info of the police.
But the only person who would take him seriously was
a detective named Mary Wilson's who's played by her who's
playing her, Uh, Marcia gay Harden probably is right, first guest, right,

(01:05:22):
because you're gonna have she's gonna be a person that's
gonna be a wear like a good pant suit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
She's gonna put her hand back like this and show
her gun, but she might she's not going to brandish
her gun. She's just going to be like, I've got
a gun.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Yeah, that's Marcia gay Harden for ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
That's perfect. So Mary. As it turns out, it was
investigating disappearances of other Indianapolis men as well, those of
twenty year old Richard Hamilton, twenty year one year old
Johnny Bayer, and twenty eight year old Alan Livingston, and
others dating back to the early nineties.

Speaker 7 (01:05:51):
All game in well.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Tony couldn't remember where Smart's house was located.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Oh, Tony, I know it's key, key information.

Speaker 6 (01:05:58):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
He's like, I think it had the name Fox in it.
Like he really couldn't remember. And they even were like,
what about this house that has an indoor pool, And
he's like, I don't think it is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
It was Tony. Okay, Tony was high as a little
coke little fucking He's like, look, I had to blend in.
It's just I had to do what was everybody else
was doing.

Speaker 7 (01:06:18):
It's the early nineties. There's a lot of coke.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Probably, I don't really remember an indoor pool or mannequin.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
Let's see, he couldn't remember, but he's he is. He
is obsessively frequent in gay bars for the next year,
in hopes of spotting Smart again. He's like, I'm going
to fix the fact that I can't remember the shit. Well, yeah,
but he couldn't track him down a whole year. Almost then,
on the night of August twenty ninth, nineteen ninety five,
Tony spots Smart in a gay bar takes down his

(01:06:47):
motherfucking license plate number nice. When Mary Wilson runs the plates,
they belong to not anyone named Brian Smart, but to
Herbert R. Baumeister of Westfield, Indiana.

Speaker 7 (01:06:58):
Did you guys get catch on to that? Probably right?

Speaker 6 (01:07:00):
I did?

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
I did, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
I've definitely did.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
He lived in a state cal blah blah blah blah
with his wife and children the manor house Mary learned
how to swimming pool in the basement. Mary confronted Herb
at his first store. She's like, I think you're a
fucking murderer of gay men. And his thrift store is
failing right now because of his increasingly erratic behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Mannikins, like Herb, we don't need that many mannequins.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
It's just you can't even walk through the aisles. Ye,
it's nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
You don't need you don't need shopping mannequins, and we have.

Speaker 3 (01:07:35):
Shoppers for that. Oh, how craepy would that if you
turn a corner with your shopping cart and it's just
like mannequin with a shopping cart.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
I wanted this COR's T shirt it's mine.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
Oh god, no no, but he refuses to talk. They
said they wanted to search his home and they're like,
he's like, talk to my lawyer. Don't talk to me again.
But then they go to his wife, Julie, who also
has you know, ain't over the property and is like, hey,
guess what your husband's We think he's killing gay men
around town?

Speaker 7 (01:08:05):
Can we search your property? And she's like, I can't
deal with this right now. Get the fuck out of here. Nope, nope,
she like, noped it real hard.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Well that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 7 (01:08:13):
You gotta right, that's awful. Yeah, She's like, oh fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Then he gonna go for us swim.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
I can't handle this right now.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Well, six months goes by and her brain is like, oh,
like slowly catching up to the oh fuckedness of it.

Speaker 7 (01:08:32):
She remembers it a year earlier, her son.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
Had been playing in the wooded backyard and he finds
a half buried, complete human skeleton. Yeah, what hey, mommy, mommy, go.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Am, mommy, mommy, it's Halloween already.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
And she's like, oh shit, and she's like, honey, please
tell me an excuse because I can't handle this. And
he told her that his father had been a doctor.
She said it. He said it had been one of
his dissecting, dissecting skeletons, but he started in the garage
and then buried it in the backyard after he decided
to clean the garage as you do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
And there was a slippers and Brian, you know it's
like this all the time. Well, this happens, I thought
you were gonna say. And I feel like other people
did too, Like the son found like a human femur
or just someone small thing, not a half buried human,
motherfucking skeleton, all like West Craven presents in your backyard.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
It is so upset that poor kid man. Oh Jesus,
he's not having a good life. Are or he's living
his best life?

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
That's right. He became Oprah Winfrey, Love.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
It, Love it. In addition, for several months at a time,
she and the kids would get the fuck out of
there and visit his mother, leaving herb at home alone
for like months at a time. That makes sense, right,
when you leave your husband for months and go to
his mom's house because she's cooler to hang out with
us than your husband.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
His Mom's cooler than him. Yeah, that's it. That's your marriage.

Speaker 7 (01:10:12):
Yeah, great, bye.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
And the timeline she like put it together, and the
timeline matched of when the guys were disappearing. So she
was like, you know what, I'm gonna fall for divorce.
And then she calls Mary and she's like, get the
fuck over here. Now he's out of town. So in
June of ninety six, Mary she Mary goes to Mary
along with some skeptical officers, who of course would like

(01:10:38):
they ran away to the big city. You know, still
know it simply must be so yeah, I don't look
at evidence. I make it up easy easy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
I was like, you like easy, easy, no, no, no, easy, peasy,
got it. They they go to the property to search.
They step out into the backyard and they immediately acount
or a bone about a foot long charge from having
been burned in the backyard, as well as fragments of
bones strewn about, an even human teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Oh dude, that's from my uncle's dentist dental company. The
Houstony love gardening, you know so much.

Speaker 7 (01:11:21):
We heard it helps the plants grow and keeps the
bug of away.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Sprinkle teeth on petunias.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
Oh, the colors the State Fair. Every year I enter them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
It is nightmare. You walk out from an indoor pool
into fucking bone yard.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Like crunch, crunch. The sheriffs are like, we don't think
this is oh fuck, and Mary's like, gun, yeah, I
tell you, I fucking told you so. After police thoroughly
searched the eighteen acre estate, they turned up the remains

(01:12:01):
of eleven men. Early in his investigation, Vandergriff, good old,
fucking reliable Vandergriff, He's going to be played by a
hound dog. I think, you know what I mean with
a fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Oh yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, uh go, yes, yep, mcgraff, Yeah,
he's McGrath. That's right, he's halfway there.

Speaker 7 (01:12:25):
That's all there, mcgraff, Vandergriff, where we go?

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
So easy? So he had made connections to the disappearances
of gay men in Indianapolis, between them and the strangling
murders of gay men whose bodies were found dumped along
the corridor of Interstate seventy in Indiana and Ohio between
Indianapolis and Columbus. Is that right, which had been dubbed
the I seventy murders, and it's herb well here we go.

(01:12:50):
Oh sorry, yes, thank you for listening.

Speaker 7 (01:12:53):
That's why I stood nice.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
The last known I seventy murder nine of them in all,
had been committed in nineteen ninety, not long before the
Indianapolis disappearances began. So Julie Boutmeistra told authorities that her
husband made as many as one hundred trips to Ohio
and on what he said was a business trip. You know,
as you do it, you're in a thrift store, fucking shopper.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
You got to get that good Ohio thrift clothes. Yeah,
oh right, you guys have all those grandma's letters.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
I mean I would do it. I would, I would
do it right now. I would go right now. First
we go dig up the rest of your lady's farm.

Speaker 7 (01:13:32):
Then you fucking go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Then we go down to sweater Land. Yeah, or is
it down? Don't know where I am that way? Not
sure where I am?

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
Is there barbecue on the way, We stopped for barbecue.
I'm going good, good, great.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
Them.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
So one hundred business trips. Somebody set a store business
and during the late eighties, his and his photo match
the police sketch drawn from witnesses who thought they had
seen the I seventy Strangler, which I think it was
a fucking sketch of it because Stephen's awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:14:07):
Ooh.

Speaker 9 (01:14:08):
The one on the right is the Scarecrow from the
Wizard of All. I don't know, I want to miss
you most of all Scarecrow. I don't know if it
looks like him, but he's a black guy's creepy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
Yeah. They were like, just can you give the worst
eyes you've ever looked at? And then a weird poudy lip, trust.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
Me on this very very light mustache, and let's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Pluck those eyebrows a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
Yeah. So so he's officially later declared the Ice seventy Killer.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
Yeah. So this guy during the time, during the stretch,
during the search of his property, he disappears her Do
you know I did that?

Speaker 7 (01:14:58):
And I feel like I was. I knew I was
going to do that at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
It because when I was a kid, I called herbs
herbs and my mom yelled at me for so it's
a triggering. So now I see the word herb and
I'm like, don't fuck that up, but it's herb.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Jesus, so many issues on the table tonight. You would
man never even you wouldn't expect it. We look so normal,
and they arrested her Herb.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
So he disappears from the place he's stay in, out
of town. When he finds out they're searching his property.
He was at Lake Wawassee in Cosacochesco County, where we'll
be touring next.

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
What.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Then he enters, Yes, now it's perfectly clear, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
I learned an Oregon not to repeat what's the name?
Because I got it wrong again? And everyone just yells
it loud.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Oh my god, that was so do you remember the
name of that city?

Speaker 7 (01:15:57):
Fuck?

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
No, it was hard though, you guys. Okay, So he
is he okay. He goes out of town and he
goes into Canada. On June thirtieth, he ends up in
Grand Bend, Ontario, and they're at Pinery Park. On the
evening of July third, Herb writes a suicide note attributing

(01:16:19):
his decision to kill himself to his failing business and
irreparable marriage. But nope, doesn't mention the skeletons, oh, the
dead men. No, it's because his marriage sucks, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
His final words on the three page suicide note said
that he would now eat a peanut butter sandwich, which
was his favorite snack, and then go to sleep. He
even apologized for messing up the park. Then he put
a three hundred and seventy five magnum two point three
to seventy five magnum. I don't know guns, revolver barrel,

(01:16:51):
I don't know, I don't know for.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Soon to just he put three hundred and seventy five
guns into his mouth, just to be sure, but he didn't.
That's herb.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
Yeah, he put it to his forehead, he pulls the trigger.
His body is found eight days later. Yeah, gotta you know.
It's some some hikers going. That's what's that smell? It's
always what's that smell?

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
Hikers?

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
And what are all those flies doing over?

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
Yeah? Yeah. The evening before he died, a Canadian trooper
stopped him to ask him why he was sleeping in his.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Car and ask him why the long face.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
I'm sorry, hey, why the peanut butter sandwich and a
long face?

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
Quit messing up this part.

Speaker 3 (01:17:37):
Before letting him go, she notices some luggage in the
back and what looked like a pile of videotapes in
his back seat. But when they find his car, no
signs of the videotapes there never recovered. Police suspect he
threw them into a river before he went and killed himself.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
I hope.

Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
So.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
Virgil Vandergriff said, well, these videotapes of the murders he
committed were decent? Were these the videotapes of the murders
he committed in the pool at Fox Hollow Farms.

Speaker 7 (01:18:04):
We'll never know, and perhaps it's for the best.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
But then you have to play Virgil grand and rock clearly,
thank you, okay, really quickly. Then, of course I fucking
looked at the email. Sorry you guys, my allergies. Are
you know the city?

Speaker 7 (01:18:22):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Hey, Georgia and Karen, I started your podcast months ago
and been meaning to send you my hometown murder, but
I'm so fucking forgetful and lazy i never got around
to it until now.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
Hi, I'm from a small city of Westfield, Indiana and
have lived here my whole life. My hometown murder starts
when I was around ten and I used to hang
out with my friend about six out of the seven
days of a week for the summers I lived there.
Something I was thrilled to find out that they moved
to a beautiful farmhouse about a mile away from where
I lived.

Speaker 7 (01:18:50):
No, no, no, oh no, it's not forget that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
It's not that, it's not it's totally that trick you.
Not only because this house was a hop, skip and
a jump away from my house. I love that, but
it was fucking insane. They had acres of wind where
they're newly purchased horses, around a giant manton, and oddly,
remember indoor pool where.

Speaker 7 (01:19:12):
We spent most of our time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
Oh really, and what about the ghosts that we're there with? You?

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
Well? I never got a creepier eerie feeling about the
house until I was older and started noticing odd things
such as the secret room behind my friend's bathroom mirror.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Say it again, Say it again? What's this you say?

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
I never got to creepy your erie feling about the
house INTI I was older and started noticing all things
about the secret room behind my friend's bathroom.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Mirror, whole room behind a mirror, and then you go
into the room face first through a mirror.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
It just said murder room, face first into them. Or
maybe the fact that we found quote amable bones in
the backyard. Oh, our parents freaked out a little more
than I thought they would. But it wasn't until I
was watching a local network when I found out that
the fairy house my friend lived in Fox Hollow Farms

(01:20:06):
was previously owned by a story killer my parentsly obviously.
My parents obviously knew, but kept it from me because
of my age, apparently. And then she says killed them
in the indoor swimming pool. I didn't realize. Don't worry.
It doesn't stop there. He continued to burn them in
the fireplace and buried them in the backyard. So we
burned them in their fight in his fireplace, which I didn't.

(01:20:28):
I didn't find that info anywhere else. It's a pretty
interesting story. If you guys ever have time to.

Speaker 7 (01:20:33):
Read it, which I know you won't.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
It says that so negative.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
Yeah, well that's all. I have loved the podcast. If
you're ever in Indianapolis, maybe we can take a tour
of the farm SSDGM Maddie, that's her Bob my Ster
that myster way to go Indianapolis. I mean that is
there is.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
A ghost Hunters or a Haunting. There's an episode of
one of those shows, and that's the first time I
heard of this story. Yeah, and it is such a
bummer because everything else is bad real time, how it happened,
the fact that it was like just a marginalized group
of people who were like, oh, it's not a problem
that these men are disappearing, all those things, The fact

(01:21:16):
that people, you know, these murderers get away with killing people.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
And then he gets to just kill himself and never
have to deal with any of it, never talk about it.

Speaker 7 (01:21:25):
Irustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
Then mannequins, indoor pools, as we've talked about, behind the
mirror room behind, I mean, then on top of it,
ghosts and you fucking fold some ghost feelings inside there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
I want to thank this fucking town because sometimes we'll
go to a city and I'm like, I don't know,
like I've done every Chicago murder, I don't know what
else to do. At this time, I was like, oh
my god, this is like I felt like a gift
that was given to me.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
I get to tell everybody about RB.

Speaker 3 (01:21:56):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:22:00):
So that's that was amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
It was so good.

Speaker 7 (01:22:02):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
I didn't mean like that was amazing, Georgia.

Speaker 2 (01:22:09):
I just said, where even if you don't clap We're
gonna be like that was fucking incredible and standing out more?

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
Can I show you Georgia font So let's see it.
Tell that is gorgeous. Thank you, it's so clear.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 7 (01:22:26):
Hmmm, it's so not convoluted, Like I am, what.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Was in the room behind the mirror? And why wouldn't
you just put a secret door instead of how do
you get into a room that's behind a mirror? Is
there another door besides the mirror, like a full length
fucking mirror in a different room? Does it have to
be mirrors? Are you a warlock of some kind? Is
there anyone that knows the answers?

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
Yeah? Who built that mirror for him? Did they come
over like sure? Yeah, you're like, it's for my mannequin,
it's my.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Manico Manikin asked if they could have a secret room
behind the mirror, and I was like, you know what,
it's your birthday.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
Yes, you get there, and the builder's like okay, yeah, salads, w's.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
It great, let's do it. Here's my bill. Everything's cool.
You get to live your life. Okay, we're back. Are
there updates for this story?

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
There are nearly three decades after the death of serial
killer Herb Baumeister. The victims are still being identified. As
of this year, there are at least twenty five victims
suspected to have been buried at Fox Hollow twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Do you fi's a small town cemetery?

Speaker 4 (01:23:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
Wild.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
More victims were identified in twenty twenty three and twenty
four thanks to renewed efforts by Hamilton County Coroner Jeff Jellison,
who used new DNA technology to identify the thousands of
human bones and bone fragments found on Baumeister's property. Good
This enabled them to identify additional victims, including Alan Livingstone
who I mentioned, Manuel Rissinde's Jeffrey Allen, Joe Ozones who

(01:24:00):
went by Jeff who was also mentioned, and then earlier
this year, Hulu released a four part docu series called
The Fox Hollow Murders, Playground of a serial Killer that
explores a theory that Baumeister had an accomplice. And there's
actually still a phone number to call to contact the
Hamilton County Coroner's office if you think you need to
arrange a DNA sample for a loved one who went

(01:24:23):
missing all the way back then, and god, I just
I still think about his children, and I hope they're well.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
It's so wildly dark and scary and continuing on the
idea that they're still investigating in that way where it's like,
is this possible that one person could have gotten all
this done? Just reapproaching it constantly to be like, what
is the real answer of what happened here? At least
they're doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Well, you know, it reminds me so much and that
maybe it's just because I'm reading a book about it
right now, and there was just a new documentary about it.
But the Dean Coral, you know, Candy Man killing Candy Man,
same thing where he was dead, so they kind of
have to un cover all this information through his accomplices
and just whatever information, Like they're still identifying bodies.

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
It's just like how does it happen?

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
And how did it happen?

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
And go on for so long that then the after
effect goes on for I mean, per Baumeister thirty years.
They're still working on that because it was ignored and
it was marginalized group, right, it was like this doesn't
matter and the world.

Speaker 1 (01:25:25):
In Sheep's clothing.

Speaker 7 (01:25:27):
It's so gross.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
The book is called The Serial Killers Apprentice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
It's really good about the Canaman.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
Yeah, and there's a documentary about it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Okay, well, now we have a hometown story from the
live show about the barbecue murders from audience members Taylor
and Rebecca.

Speaker 3 (01:25:43):
Oh wow, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:25:49):
Do you think that we have time?

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
Yes? And here's the cool part, and this is on
our system. We've got a story you tweeted us today
or yesterday, and I need to hear the story about
the girl who dressed up in her murdered cousin's clothes.
That that's coming out wrong. Someone put her into.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
Ways did the girl that's about to come up here
dress in her.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Let's let her explain it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:20):
I see her there. Okay, come around this way, come
around this way, and then army, roll, army, what just happened?

Speaker 7 (01:26:31):
Let's bring out our hometelly.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
Thank you?

Speaker 4 (01:26:37):
Oh? Hi?

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Whoa whoa, whoa? Whoa?

Speaker 3 (01:26:39):
Hi?

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
What's your name?

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
You probably don't need Taylor, Taylor, we don't need all that.

Speaker 6 (01:26:43):
And I'm Rebecca.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
Hi, Rebecca, don't do you guys want to get up
on this like backup stairs?

Speaker 3 (01:26:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
Fun here we can just Taylor, Taylor and Rebecca will
explain that tweet so that people understand what's your name?
And it all happened for us sound wise, thank you
you're talking to Thanks?

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
Noah, thank you?

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
Okay, we use it anyway, show business. So I sent
the tweet out, but it's her story.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
Get out of here, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
It had to be told to.

Speaker 6 (01:27:16):
Creepy and weird.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Are you guys related?

Speaker 6 (01:27:18):
No, we work together.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
Oh okay.

Speaker 6 (01:27:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:21):
So I actually actually sent this in as an email
and I was telling Beck about it and she was like, no, no, no, no,
you have to you have to tell the story. So
this actually happened before I was born. My mom was
actually pregnant with me. And I'm from one of those
families in like southern Indiana who has like all of
these cousins are not actually cousins, they're just like your

(01:27:43):
marriage or like your parents are really close friends or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Yeah, it's easier.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
We have that in California too. It's called having friends.

Speaker 6 (01:27:54):
So I have I called him my cousins.

Speaker 4 (01:27:58):
But at the time, there was Jamie who was like four,
and Cherry Lynn, who was about a year and a
half old, and their parents had just gotten divorced.

Speaker 6 (01:28:06):
Their dad was in the Navy and he was stationed
in Pearl Harbor, and.

Speaker 4 (01:28:11):
He got custody of the kids after the divorce whatever whatever.
Took the kids off to Pearl Harbor, and one day
he was like, Cherry Lynn's missing.

Speaker 6 (01:28:22):
She's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
And she's the older one or the younger one.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
She's the younger one. She's like a year and a
half old, and she's like, she's gone. I don't know
what happened. I went out, I met this woman, I
brought her back, and then I.

Speaker 6 (01:28:33):
Just noticed that she was gone.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
So like two days later, I happened to notice that
my children weren't there anymore. So two days later they
found a body in Pearl Harbor in a duffel bag
that was just like floating along, you know, Hawaii, and
Sherry Lynn is inside. And so he claims that he

(01:28:56):
doesn't know it, he doesn't know what's happened. And then
this woman comes forward and she was like I was
the one he took him that night. She wouldn't stop crying,
and he was like, oh, just ignore the baby.

Speaker 6 (01:29:06):
This is fine. We can you know, like still have
our time together.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
Yeah yeah, And she was like no, this is like
really fucking weird, man, I don't want to like kiss
you while your baby's crying, and so she left and yeah, right,
So what eventually happened is that he got really mad and.

Speaker 6 (01:29:28):
Strangled the baby.

Speaker 4 (01:29:30):
And was like, I don't know what to do with
this body, so let's just like put it in like
a national monument. No one's gonna find it, that's right.
So they it was actually kind of the same thing,
like he was acquitted with like a regular dream but
then like the Navy, remember I don't know what story
that was, remember.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Yeah, yeah, doesn't suck around with stuff like that. After
so he went to jail and.

Speaker 6 (01:29:58):
They're doing this investigation.

Speaker 4 (01:29:59):
My mom was like nine and ten thousand months pregnant
with me, and the FBI like bursts into her work
and is like what do you know about this and
she's like, I'm just a little pregnant woman. I have
no clue what you're talking about.

Speaker 7 (01:30:13):
That old story.

Speaker 4 (01:30:14):
Yeah, So he ends up going to jail for like
fifteen years, and when he gets out, the first thing
he does is he comes back to Indiana and he
visits the grave and I had like family members who
were there at the time, and he just like awkwardly
walked up and it's like hey.

Speaker 6 (01:30:28):
Guys, like, oh, you're like can you g yeah, like
this is really awkward.

Speaker 4 (01:30:35):
And then he's never been seen again, Like we yeah,
we've never seen him again. But I had an aunt
who kept all of her clothes, and every year when
I had like my pictures of like three, four, five, six,
oh my god, they put me in her clothes until
I was like too big anymorey?

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Why why?

Speaker 4 (01:30:50):
Why? Why?

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Who would do that?

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
And I just get to this stage and I'm gonna
have to buy her why because she also looks.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
Like her Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:31:01):
Girl, there's there's a set of like two pictures where
you can't really tell who's whose We're in the same clothes.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
It's like a VC Andrews novel. What's the fuck? Wow?

Speaker 7 (01:31:14):
I wish she could put a photo up, right, I
know I was.

Speaker 4 (01:31:17):
I tried to find one and I emailed my mom
yesterday and she was like, yeah, dude, we don't look.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
At those scary.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Dude, what is wrong with you as most of our
family does.

Speaker 6 (01:31:31):
Yeah, my family's pretty messed up.

Speaker 3 (01:31:33):
Well that's a good one dollar Taylor.

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
You guys too, Yeah, thank you so much. Done.

Speaker 3 (01:31:42):
Good job, very good, And you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
Guys, good job Little Bay from the Dollar Store is
shared on the Facebook page. But the little bags from
the Dollar store like top secret official report and it
talks about a fake arson.

Speaker 3 (01:31:58):
It's like an evidence bag. Super cute.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
What's inside?

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
So I have tissues and bobby pins?

Speaker 7 (01:32:06):
Can I have a tissue sharing tissues?

Speaker 2 (01:32:08):
Can?

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Georgia needs those? Thank you so much. Awesome, just want Okay,
do you have any gum or anything? Oh yeah, I'll
take that whole Baye. Thank you. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
Good job.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 7 (01:32:34):
I'm not not a hugger, which is too bad.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
I don't have pockeys. Yeah, next time, next time. That
was perfect, you guys, that was so awesome. Thank you
so much.

Speaker 3 (01:32:47):
Yay, sounds good.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
See, we can make mistakes and then we can make.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
Good on that, and we can steal gum and tissues, steal.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Gum, and we can have what we want.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
Let people tell the worst story of all time, and
that's what this is all about, us getting what we want.

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
That's right in the most horrible way. That was a
tough hometown.

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
Yeah yeah. And there's no updates for the case, so.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
So we have to just move on to the titles.
Even though it feels in appropriate, But I mean that's
what happens sometimes when people have their hand up and
they want to talk about something. That's what we want
them to be able to do if that's what they
want and get it out. And I think that's what
I do love about our audience is the audience gets
exactly what's happening right and is supportive their show. It's

(01:33:40):
their show, and they're just like, yep, we're here for
all of it, good and bad. Yeah, it's very meaningful.
So this episode was originally titled Live at the Egyptian Room.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
If we were naming it today, maybe we would call it.
I use Georgia. I don't know why that was like
such a revelation, like embarrassing thing to admit it was.

Speaker 2 (01:34:02):
The first time you publicly admitted use.

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
Of course I do to this day.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
I still use it, and Mollie, our producer, can confirm
that I ask for my scripts in Georgia. I just
I like the way it looks.

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
She loves a mirror. Also, there's also too many nouns, yeah, always,
which is us being suspicious of Belle's Gunnis's explanation of
her dead husband Peter's accident.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
I got to keep it simple.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
If we've talked people anything over the years, is that
it how a.

Speaker 3 (01:34:35):
Lie, how to lie?

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
And then of course triflers need not apply, always need
that one.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
Yeah, it's a classic.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
All right, Well, thanks for listening you guys. We're going
to say goodbye from the Egyptian Room. Thank you for listening, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
Goodbye, Thank you so much for being good guys, Indianapolis.
This has been really awesome, What a great show, what
an awesome audience. Really, we would love it if you
would stay sexy and don't Bye you guys.

All Episodes

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 67: Live At The Egyptian Room

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 67: Live At The Egyptian Room