Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 71: Put It In A Door - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
N Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary,
updates and insights, and you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Today we're recapping episode seventy one, which we named put
it in a door.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
That's right, it'll make later, Yeah, exactly. This episode came
out on June first, twenty seventeen, So.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Let's listen to the intro of episode seventy one.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello, and welcome to My Favorite Murder.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
This is a podcast, and that's Karen Kilgarrett and.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
That's over there, Georgia hart Stark. Hi, we're the hosts.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
We're the hosts. This is all planned out.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Super and it's very naturally delivered.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
We're actually reading a teleprompter right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's one of those invisible ones, so if you were
looking at us, you wouldn't be able to see it,
but we can see the words that are scrolling on it.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Stephen's actually mouthing the words to us that we have
to be saying right now.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, Steven's in down below the stage and a little
half shell the way they used to do it in
the operetta times, whispering our lines to us. Yeah, we
have a little earpiece in we're like a newscasters, but
Stephen is the director up in the control room.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, breaking news, None of that's.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
True, breaking news.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
This podcast is starting in case you couldn't tell in
five that was a ruse. The whole thing it was
a trick. The whole thing has been a trick. I
think my cat barred on.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
The couture sitting. Why can you smell it or feel it?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
I don't want to say feel it, but that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
But that might be the horrible truth.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, flow off to a gross start.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yay, nice, really good. I'm getting over what I believe
to be me death pneumonia, but it's probably just a
standard chess cold. Probably the plague knocked me out. I
didn't get to do anything I wanted to do list
weekend or week So I'm a little bit like when

(02:12):
you don't see anybody for four days and then you're
all like everything's real intense and you forget how to
speak to people.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
You've only been yelling at your dogs.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Probably I will probably tell you the plot of a
sitcom as conversation where it's like and then she wanted
in the kitchen. It was so crazy what did you watch?

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Like, did you have like a thing that you got
through the whole time?

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I did start watching a series on I have a
one of those I won't name the name of it
because I don't like it that much of but it's
one of those we have all the British shows apps.
So I watched a bunch of obscure British procedurals that
weren't the best and also weren't the worst. So I
that's sometimes I'm in the mood for just truly mediocre television. Sure,

(02:57):
and I could just watch a ton of it.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well you know what I did the other night. I
was home alone and I was like scrolling and you
can't decide what to watch, and like my TV whatever
kind it is, like it pops up all these options,
and one of them was YouTube, and I'm like, who
the fuck watch is YouTube on television? Like it's a
very foreign thing to me, the children. Yeah, And so
I like kind of clicked on it to see like
what videos they were like offering, and I got in

(03:21):
a deep dark hole of men doing tutorials of makeup. Yes,
I mean they were fucking famous, and they were talking
about like the scan like like they were talking to
these people who watch it every day. Yeah, and they're like,
I know this thing happened, and people said this about
me on the internet, like their stories, and like I
looked one of them up because I was like, what happened,

(03:43):
and like one of them said something kind of racist
on accident, and it was just this whole.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
World that I am not familiar with at all.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
And now you're like right in front and center, like,
bring me that drama on that YouTube drama? Yeah, did
you see the one that's the little boy doing that
in sane makeover? And whoever tweeted it, it was this
great short video of a boy who maybe was nine
or ten doing insanely amazing makeup on himself, incredible makeup,
and the person that tweeted it said some fucked up

(04:13):
thing like yeah, like what would you do if this
was your child? And all these huge, famous people and
all these awesome people and cool people wrote back, like
Samantha ronson the DJ. She wrote back, like sit back
and enjoy the life. He's going to give me as
like as a you know, business, like basically he's going

(04:34):
to be rich and famous and he's going to take
care of me and like all David Cross wrote back,
throw my Bible away and love him unconditionally and all
this stuff where it's just like it's this world where
it's so funny when people get onto social media thinking
that they're going to like rally their troops the way
where it's like, no, that's not the world anyone lives
in anymore. Yeah, little boys doing amazing like Contour Kardashian

(04:58):
lovel makeup is standard fair, Yeah, and he's welcome.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Have you seen the little kids who do the bad ones?
Like one little girl like was like clearly obsessed with
makeup tutorials because she knew exactly how to do everything,
and she might have been like seven or eight, and
so she just like sneaks into her mom's room and
she's like whispering the whole time, and like starts doing

(05:23):
a makeup tutorial and just makes her face look like
how a seven year old would make think makeup on
And it was just the cutest thing. And I think
her mom comes in at the end and she's like,
oh shit, I gotta go. It was just like so sweet.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
I love it. Also, I can watch because my friend
April Richardson's obsessed with makeup tutorials and makeup herself. So
there have been times where she's good at it. She's
really yeah, she's and she's all goth, so she's all
about like, I'm gonna wear a blue lipstick and this
red eye shadow. But there was a night where we
were started to watch something it may have been like
a Republican debates night or something where we got into

(06:01):
something really tense and upsetting, and then at the end
of that, she's like, hold on, and then just flipped
on this girl that was just doing this insane like
Susie's Sue amazing eye makeup, and it's so soothing to
watch someone. It's just like watching an artist draw.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
A bunch of people on Twitter were like that I
tweet about a bunch of people comment They're like, try
the hair ones. I bet the hair ones are so soothing.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
My niece Nora is obsessed with the hair ones. There
are two sisters, there's a whole family.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
They're like twins.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
They're twins, and then the mother's a hairdresser, so she'll
get in there and be like, here's Elsa's hair from
Frozen and here's this, this this, Well, now, these girls
they started when they were like ten years old. Now
they're in high school. And my sister's like, they're like
Nora's friends. That's like she's been watching she's little, right
right right. Yeah. So they get on there and they're like,
here's our first day of school hair and then they

(06:49):
show you what they're going to do, and they show
your mom how to do your hair cut. Basically it's
the cutest. I love it.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah for them, God bless us everyone, God bless us.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Good night, good night. This has been YouTube corner.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
What do we have?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
You have that email?

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Oh I have an email to read you guys, a
real good one. It's an it's a kind of a correction.
It's a clarification corner. Is that anything.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
It's called tip from NYPD.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
I was just listening to that should be the whole,
a whole new area tips from the NYPD.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Great, Yeah, everyone send in your tips. And this is
actually a guy who sent us a tip, or no,
a woman who sent us a tip from a friend
who was in the MYPD. So you don't directly need
to be secondhand tips.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, it's all about it.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Second hand tips from those in the now corner.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah, it has to the source has to be factual
and in the know though. Please keep that in mind.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
But we're not going to do any fact checking, and
that's on you. You don't need to either, Okay, Hi,
it's really it's really structured.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
There's a lot of rules.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
It's more of a storytelling corner.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, don't just don't, okay, Hi, I was just listening
to you guys explain that you should ask a cop
to see their ID and their badge in which we
talked to me recently. Wanted to share recommendation from a
friend of mine who was a retired NYPD after twenty years.
If a cop quote cop comes to your door and
you weren't expecting them, you shouldn't open the door. You
should call nine one one and ask the operator if

(08:13):
they're supposed to be cop at your house. Yes, the
nine one one operator should confirm with the officers, and
you should be able to hear that confirmation over the
police radio through the door, which is like so intense,
and I feel like most people would be like, oh,
I don't want.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
To be like, that's intent. That's a lot of steps.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
If they aren't a real cop, you won't hear that
and won't get confirmation and nine one one will know
that there is an impersonator at your.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Door, and you'll it'll be an impersonator. So even if
you're like, oh I went through too many steps, you know,
have a person that was trying to get into your
house and you now have nine one one on.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
The line, and you know they're not the little shit
and it's like, well, I would be like, well, what
if they break my door down, which they can't do
unless they have a warrant.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
But then it would be the police, and that would
mean if they were breaking your door down, that would
mean you were in there with like a hostage or something.
I mean like, that's yeah, they don't break your door
down when they just need to come and talk to.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
You about right. But if the guy, if the killer
breaks your door down, then you're already on the phone
with nine one.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
That's right, that's exactly right. Also, it's not gonna happen.
I'm in for the chances you get a new front
door if it's that easy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Our old front door at my old place was like
a bedroom door, was it really? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (09:27):
It was like hollow.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
I know this because I fucking patched over it. But
I put a note in it first, but it was
just a total hollowed bedroom door.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
And note what did the notes say? It was like
a wish, oh.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Which I don't do very often, but it came true.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
I think it said like, I wish to be mildly
successful and very happy. Fucking I don't need to be
like extreme. I'm not asking for everything.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Wait a second, did you just start a new trend
of putting wishes inside doors and patching over I mean,
that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
I think it's a thing of like hiding wishes. There's
a wishing tree in Griffith Park on a path and
someone just puts paper and a pan up there and
there's like a hollow in the tree and you just
drop your wish in there. Huh, what would your wish be?
Tree your door? Because it's two different scenarios. Or it
could be tree, door, birthday cake anything.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Oh aren't you not supposed to say? Can you tell?

Speaker 1 (10:24):
You could probably say the door.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Tell Steven and then he'll tell.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
You it could be you know, because stevens such a gossip. Okay,
how about because I just told the door wish the
door wish you're allowed to say, but the birthday and
tree you're not allowed.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
To say, oh, well right now, it would be to
meet somebody that was exciting that would make me not
feel dead inside anymore.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Uh yeah, So you're not going to meet like a
nice what I don't know, what's a job that a
guy could be the architect.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, a trade like something that's just like yourself sufficient
and you're not. Your job isn't to judge or rate
other people.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Ip I always thought mechanics probably were cool who like
specialize in a certain kind of like old car and
they're like the best in their trade.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Or tattoo artists would be fun.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Tattoo artists would be very cool. Yeah, yeah, just like
one of those guys you know sometimes you see people
fixing the road as you drive by, They've got like
a hard hat and an orange shirt. Yeah, like, that's
the hottest guy I've ever seen, and we'll ever see
and he's probably so down to earth.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Right.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well, well, let's punch a hole in your door and.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Let's get the wish and go and do it. Let's
let's don in my closet door, which is a mirror. Oh,
that'd be fun, and then you have seven years good luck, right, that's.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
The this is a classic example of if you've just
tuned in, you have no idea what this podcast is.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
About or why it's so what the fuck moment for
all of you. Don't worry, We'll get to the murder.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Don't worry.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
But it's gonna get real dark, so calm down if
you're really into dark stuff. And then we're gonna talk
about The Keepers.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
So this is we've been People have been asking us
over and over obviously on social media, Yeah, to talk
about these things, these things that come up that are
true crime, these.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
TV shows, these TV shows, or like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
And the Keepers. So I watched it. I did the
thing where I started watching it in the afternoon and
then stayed up all night watching the entire thing.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think I texted.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
You and was like, I'm about to start this.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
I think we like press play at the same time
we did, and then we text over the ageinning, and
then I think we both stopped because we were both
just like so engrossed in it. Yeah, well I had
to leave or you had to leave stopped, we stopped talking.
Then I had to pause it, and I was so mad.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
I had to go to a show, and all I
wanted to do is come back and keep watching it.
It was It's the most amazing series about It starts off.
You think you know what it's about.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Here's how I keep explaining it to people who don't know.
A nun gets killed in the late sixties. She's a
high school teacher. She's a wonderful person. You think that's
what it's about. Yeah, And then episode and the rest
of it is priest who was the principal? Fucking all
the the high school students?

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Did she get killed?

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Are they?

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Are they?

Speaker 1 (13:10):
This is exactly how I explain it. This is not
how I explain it usually. I've had two white wines
before I explained it.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And it's a lot and you're yelling over music in
a bar.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, and I'm yelling at somebody who doesn't want doesn't
care about true crime. Right, Okay, so you go.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Well, no, I mean it is all that I think
he was the counselor though.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, so, but he was definitely like, I don't know,
you tell me, Yeah, I'll tell you all about it. So
in the Catholic church, let's start from the they brought
him in. So it's a Catholic high school in Baltimore,
all girls, all girls high school, and they bring this
guy in as a counselor, and so the girls get

(13:47):
called into the counselor's office and the way they tell Okay,
first of all, let's just say this. You meet these
two women who had gone to that school, were taught
by sister Kathy, the none that got murdered, and they
are trying to find out her cold case, how she
got murdered, why she got murdered, what happened, because one
of them is having these memories repressed. She's an old

(14:09):
you know, she's.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
In her forties.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
She's a mom and a wife with the fucking best husband.
Am I wrong?

Speaker 3 (14:14):
He's like the best?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yes, that's a different I'm talking about this too. That
everyone's saying are the Karen and Georgia murder Reino characters.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
The actual investigator, the investigative, and they're the best.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
They're the best. All you want to do is sit
at that kitchen table with them and talk about this stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Kat Sulan said she's going to be the redheaded one
for Halloween. Like, that's the best thing I've ever heard
in my life. It's that woman is so awesome.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I wish I'd looked up her name, but they're they're
just basically going, we loved our teacher. We want to know.
We don't think it's right that she was murdered and
that the case went cold. We want to know what happened.
And in their digging they start finding out these things simultaneously,
but not not knowing. Across town, the woman Georgia was
talking about starts having a he repressed. Memories start coming

(15:02):
to her of things that happened to her.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
There, and when she breaks down crying at her table, Yeah,
after she tells a very detail. I mean, these two
women who come forward, who are the Jane does are
so brave. I can't even handle it.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, because what happened to them, it's the thing, and
this is the thing that happens. It's so upsetting when
you watch these Catholic church molestation stories, it's the absolute
abuse of power and the predatory nature of these priests
or who you know, whatever, whoever the story is about.
But in this case, this priest who would pick girls

(15:38):
who he knew had single parents, He knew their parents
had been recently divorced, he knew that they were maybe
going through some stuff themselves.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Maybe even already molested already being molested. So it was like, well,
it's almost like if you in the wild had to
be like, here are the steps of how children, how
people pick children get molested because these people have free
rein and it's like point for point, the grooming and
the threatening in these it's just so awful.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
It's awful, and it's the thing of back then, because
I think it was nineteen seventy, right, I think it was.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Like sixty eight or sixty nine when she got murdered.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Okay, maybe so, but yeah, basically in that in that realm,
this was back when if a priest called you to
his office, you just get up and leave class and go,
and nobody around would go, why is he calling you there?
You don't need to be alone in an office with
that man or whatever. There was nothing quite the opposite
where they had.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
They had complete power over where children went, what they
did when they went, Like you were special if you
got called at the office. Almost yes, and oh and
the worst part is that priest found the woman.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Who you were talking about. Oh, we should know these
people's names, and now I can't remember. But that woman
who broke down when she was telling that story, she
went to him, and in confession confessed to him that
she had been molested as a child and that's how
he knew to pick on her.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
And he said, she's asked for forgiveness, and he's like,
I don't know if you I don't know if we
can do that, and I'll help you get for Oh
it's listen.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Let me tell you this as a Catholic for a long,
long life Catholic. Sorry did a yell, Stephen, just pull
this thing off. But let me tell you this. The
way confession works is you go into that box, you
spill your guts and the priest who is who is
there as a as like a what do you call that?
Almost like the symbol of God. Right, he's there to

(17:35):
go because in the Bible that says you ask forgiveness
and you get it. So and people know this now,
but it makes me so mad because in that moment
when he said, I don't know if God can can
forgive you, ding ding ding red. Let know that it's
not yours to say.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Well, how are scary to know that he forgives everything
and accept.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
The thing that you've done.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, anyways, I think the Keeper is one of the
fucking best one documentaries. I am engrossed. I have twenty
fucking minutes left, and I almost don't want to get
through it on.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
That last episode. Yeah, yes, because you don't want to
let it go.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Like seven episodes, I think, and it is just Yeah,
the reason I found the YouTube thing is because I
needed a break because I was so fucking engrossed and
depressed about it.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
It's so heavy, it's so much to like absorb. Yeah,
but I will also say this, the person I believe
the director's name was Ryan White, the one name I remember,
And kudos to him because in those interviews when people
start crying, they must have felt a level of comfort
talking to him about this and the way he conducted

(18:37):
those interviews. Not only when he was talking to the victims,
did they really share so much of themselves and like
obviously feel comfortable enough to express their real emotions, which
is a very difficult thing to do. But then like
later on when he was talking to that guy who
is now in chart the Baltimore Police chief, where he

(18:57):
was just hearing these things and then going yeah, we'll
have to look. But you saw on his face he
was like, what the hell is going on? That he's
being informed? About how these cases were handled in the past.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
And then and then the interview with the guy who's
the suspect, Yes, said old dude, Oh my god. Oh.
And the other thing that drives me crazy, of course,
because this is our fucking thing that we hate, is
that the only reason the statute limitations isn't up on
this molestation charge is because they have. It's because it's
a repressed memory that just came through. So if they

(19:31):
have to prove in court not only that they were molested,
but that they just remembered it, yes, which is must
be impossible to prove in itself. But how sick is that? Yeah?
How sick is that that if you didn't remember it later,
you you couldn't pross, you couldn't go after this perse
the statute of limitations makes me fucking ill. And I

(19:52):
think someday we're going to be if the fucking apocalypse
hasn't come already, we're going to be.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I feel like that is changing in some place. I
don't know about Baltimore, but yeah, the when they all
start going and it's not just that school or just
that specific priest, but there's a part near the end
where a lot of people are going to talk about
how that law needs to change.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
There's a lot of victims I think who get who
get their power back by changing laws, and I think
that's a big one. Unfortunately, it's most of those are
never retroactive, right, which is such a Again, it is
such a fucking bummer and it kisses me on It's insane,
especially because you know, with these sexual molestations and even
you know, in rapes and all these things, it's like

(20:35):
victims don't want to come forward and to it right
away because it's traumatic and it's opening them again. But
once they get their strength and are older.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
But by then, well, it's the crazy part is everything
it becomes dependent on a person who's been victimized. It's
really amazing too having done this podcast for the short
amount of time that we've done it, like how much
I've come to learn and understand about like the victyctims
and the positions they get put in and how much

(21:05):
is put on them. So it's like, so no one's
going I mean not that no one is, but it's
it was like, so it's all just depending on whether
or not this girl who has been traumatized and victimized
and truly, like her entire childhood has been completely ruined
and screwed up and she's just blocked entire things out

(21:26):
and all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
But it's all just on her shoulders. Yeah, nothing is
on that fucking monster priest. Well, it's that thing of
like innocent and til proven guilty the person being accused,
but the person who's accusing them is lying and tel
proven otherwise almost, which is just not It's like, I know,
innocent until proven guilty is a strong thing in our
society and it's needed and necessary, but it's that that

(21:49):
means that the person who is bringing their charges is
a liar and tell proven otherwise.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Well, when you have those kinds of lawyers that the
lawyers that were the lawyers for the Catholic Church that
were defending this rest, uh, I don't know how they
sleep at night. I don't know how they sleep at night, especially.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
After this, after this, it's gonna say, podcasts, after this series,
where you're just like the the the way they were
arguing and the things that they did and said, and
the fact that ultimately the fact that they are supposed
to be representatives of the church. Yeah, it is just
the ultimate hypocrisy. And the shittiest just like, what are

(22:26):
you fighting for? You got to look at that, like.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
You you're basically accusing these people of like they're going
to sacrifice their whole life and credibility for like because
they're trying to chise all money out of you. I
don't think.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
So they can't even come out as their real names
or Jane Doe because they will be fucking attacked by
not just the church, but people who are Like it's
just every fucking every episode, don't skip one. There's like
a new revelation that's fucking incredible, but it's really hard
to watch.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
It's very hard to watch. And also it's pre Spotlight,
so like they were really the first ones that made
an actual dent and a mark. And I remember, but
I just didn't separate the cities because I remember the
Spotlight things happening in Boston, but these ones that happened
in Baltimore. They this Jane Doe, these two women really

(23:14):
were the ones that came forward and like started making
a dent.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Least I had never heard of it. I mean, it's incredible,
it's an incredible show.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
Got to watch it. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, next week on Shows we love. We'll talk about mommy,
dad and dearest. That's right, I know we owe you guys. Yes, however,
the keepers came and it was just like, oh my
all my attention is here.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Amazing? Yeah, yeah, Okay, how much longer do we have?

Speaker 1 (23:41):
The seven episode? Over? Who goes first?

Speaker 2 (23:45):
First?

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Questions?

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Karen? This this week?

Speaker 3 (23:48):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Okay, and we are back.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
So this has to be before the time that Elvis
barked on Steven's laptop, right, and I have to buy
him a new one. I think we're in Australia for
that one.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
That's right, we were away, so it's a different cat
bar Yeah, this one is more. I think the cats
were kind of looking at the loft like that's where
they can really go and get get a bunch of
stuff out of their system.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Right, I mean literally an hour and a half ago
I cleaned up cat barf, So there's no there's no
rhyme or reason.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
Frank stood up in the middle of the night and
did several huge, wheezy coughs and then he coughs something
up and then we all just kind of I was like, yeah, yeah,
that's pets.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Is it bad podcasting to say the worst part now
is of having a dog, is that he wants she
wants to eat the barf. That's not good podcasting.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
No one wants to hear that.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Right, Is it off topic for the rewind episodes? So
hard to say.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
I've known ten years plus I should know not to
talk about that.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
I mean, but it's part of our lives. It's part
of the How many items have we gotten even on
this tour from people in the meet and greets with
cat stuff? Oh my god, my cat now mill comes
to a looks in my bag when I get home
now from tour because I've brought him so many catnip toys.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah that are shaped like weapons.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
That's right. It's part of the culture of this podcast.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's right, and we love it speaking of just like
YouTube is part of the culture of this podcast. I
love that we're talking about it back then, Like who
would watch YouTube? I know YouTube and make it tutorials
like that's now basically your what your life revolves around.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
My god, it's the TikTok version, the cleaner way, more influency. Yeah,
I need to buy this right now version.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
So I've started scrolling past like my even my favorite
dermatologists that I follow and like estheticians, I can't keep
being told that no, not that one, this one, no,
not that one, this one, no, not that. I can't
keep doing that. I've got them all, I've collected them all.
If they don't work, then I'm fucked.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
That's fine, there's just nothing to be done. Also, I'm
starting to get influenced by the d influencers who are
like you don't read.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
This, oh yeah, and you're like, but I already bought it.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
I know, but it is kind of nice to see
that where people are kind of like, hey, look, this
is like they'll go through all the newest items at
Sophora and be like you don't need another glossy lip
bumb totally, or like, don't do it.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
This ingredient is not going to help you fix this problem.
That doesn't work that way. You know. We're like, there's
no such nature's botox. Botox is natural, like this.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Botox, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
I like the de influencer thing.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
I did too. It's a real relief. And we are
true de influencers. We are nothing if not de influencers.
So if you want to see us on YouTube, you
can go over to my favorite murder dot video or
search my favorite murder on YouTube because we've got all
kinds of videos up there.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yeah, we were own channel.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Now is that exciting? Yeah, brag brag.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
I was cringing when I was listening to this because
it's so much that's changed culturally since we talked about
you don't have to open the door to police and
they need a warrant, and you know, like, oh that
was twenty seventeen, like.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
So different, so different, and also just it was the
end of you know, there's a lot of people and
that the kind of criticism that we used to get,
where you talk about the police or like, you know,
I would talk about like my family that was in
the San Francisco Police Department or whatever, and people would
be like, you guys, are you know, part of the problem,
And it was hard to imagine what that meant.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
And now we know full well what it looks like
and what it is, and it's on the streets and
it's this overstepping and out of control and it's just like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
It's good.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Intentions don't change things and don't really matter in the
scope of things. So yeah, you know, they're going to
invade Portland they're going to invade Portland is the newest
insane blitzkrig.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
It's just like, what's happening.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, either we're living in a fugue state or we're
living in a fucking fascist fascism state.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
It's number two. It's straight up number two. I love
that used to up with like is talking about cat
barf bad podcasting, and it's like or reminding everybody of
just how we have so quickly slipped down this slippery slope,
why these are the deep cut people. That's true. I
want to hear well, because it's weird to hear that
and understand ten years later, how naive what we're saying is.

(28:21):
I mean, that's you could also do that with your
if you recorded your family dinners, the exact same thing
would happen, yes, a decade later and you re listen
to it.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
But yeah, I mean, that's why we're doing these rewinds ultimately,
and that's why it took us so long to like
figure out how to do it correctly, because we knew
that shit like this would come up and we'd have
to hear it and feel it and cringe through it
and listen. And then the point is to correct it
and to acknowledge it. So that's really what these would rather.
You've listened to this and us acknowledging that, then this

(28:53):
naked you know, way back when? Yeah, right right, I
think it's they these early episodes really do need like
the director's cut, Yes, audio guide because what the hell?

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yeah, context, we totally get it.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I just also have to say that I really wish
I was being more aeroa dite as I spoke. I
am so god damn tired, uh right now that like
the words are not coming to my brain.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, I forgot how exhausting touring is on your butt.
Like every day we get back from tour, I sleep
the rest of the day.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Yeah, like in a like coma sleep.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
And I forgot, And I talked to my therapist about it,
and I'm like, I knew I didn't like touring, Like
I knew that, and yet I did it again, and
she well blamed it on dissociation, which I appreciate, but.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
But also there's more to it. It's like we over
we oversimplify shows. I don't like touring, Yes, exactly, no, exactly,
if we could only, if we can only have it
brought to us. But it, and it's also we're tired
because of the It's not all lows. It's like these
incredible emotional moments that we get to share with people,

(30:06):
the entire audience, and then people face to face for
a couple hours after the show. It's like there's a lot,
there's a lot going on.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
It's very much like yeah, like overstimulation, Yeah, just peak emotion.
Like imagine being at a wedding every day. It's kind
of what it's like, and you're like, you're not the
brider groom, but you're high up on the you know,
maybe you're the mother of the bride, so like you
have a lot of duties and it's exhausting. Now you
have to do that two days in a row. Come back, work,

(30:35):
go back and do it two days in a row.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yes, right, yes, Then you start you stop parsing the
good and the bad, and you're just like this is
the ard or whatever. But it is.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
That's just the tired part. It's like it actually is
pretty incredible.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
And it is a thing where we wouldn't be able
to know the truth about what this podcast means to
anybody if we didn't do this, because what we see
online and here online is just a version of something.
It's just a we don't even know where it's coming from.
We don't know the source. But when you have somebody
standing there in front of you, like holding your hands,
and the girl who had this sign that said I

(31:09):
wish you knew we were best friends, and then she
brought it through and I was like, that makes me
want to cry. It's that's the sweetest, kind of loveliest idea. Yeah,
let's get into the part where you wrote a wish
on a piece of paper and put it in your door.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
Oh my god, little Georgia.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
I just want to go give her a hug because
I my expectations for myself were so low and so
basic that I didn't even wish for anything bigger than that.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
You know, I never ever have.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I've never wish for anything more than like the here
and now right and you know, the here and now
and the knowledge to.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
Be grateful for it.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
And so I did that in that door and it
quadrupled at least.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah, kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, it's very cool. My life is so fucking incredibly
different than it was when we recorded this. But yeah,
the same people learning it that I love, and everyone's
pretty healthy still except for Elvis.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Well, he came in unhealthy. He came in as an
old cat bleuss his heart.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah yeah, it's pretty sweet, Yeah for sure. All Right,
well then I guess let's just get into true crime.
I mean, that's what we're here for.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
All right, let's get into Karen's story from twenty seventeen
about the vampire rapist.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, it's my turn, Yes, it's my turn to shine. Now,
this is a suggestion this could be one of our
books where because somebody suggested this to both of us.
So I was actually thinking as I was writing this,
I'm like, what if Georgia saw this one?

Speaker 1 (32:55):
When did they suggest it?

Speaker 2 (32:57):
I can't remember. Maybe a week ago on Twitter it's
I'm at miss New Judy suggested it to both of us.
And anytime people suggest them to us, I open it
up and I look at the thing and then I'm like,
Sometimes I'll go like I should do that, and I
never think about it again. And sometimes I go, I
know that one already or whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I've started bookmarking them in my so when I'm frantically
on Tuesday morning going where are day?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Which I do, Yeah, you have those ones? Waiting for you. Yeah,
well this one. When I opened it up, I immediately
was so entranced and horrified that I was like, this
is going to be my next one.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
This sounds fun.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
So thank you, miss new Judy for suggesting it. It's
so good. It's John Crutchley, the vampire Rapist.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Love it already?

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Have you heard? No?

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Okay, clearly I didn't see that tweet, all right.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
So this took place around thanks It was Thanksgiving in
nineteen eighty five in Malabar Reverd County, Florida, which is
so Reverd County in Malabar. I guess I looked it
up on a map so i'd know what I was
talking about. It's right on the coast. It's on the
east coast of Florida, and it's it's seventy seven miles

(34:10):
southeast of Orlando, so it's basically middle going toward the bottom,
but right on the water. All right. So this is
what happened. It's Thanksgiving nineteen eighty five and a man
is driving down the road and he sees a young
woman totally naked. Her hands are handcuffed and her ankles
are handcuffed, and she's hopping down the road.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
So he pulls over. He gets her into his car,
and she's totally weak, she's covered in dirt, she's panicked.
She points to the house nearby and says, remember that.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
House to him, honey.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yes. He drives her to his house where his wife is.
They call the cops and an ambulance and she gets
taken to the hospital and the doctors find out that
forty to forty five percent of her blood is gone. No, yes,
so she has been. And she then tells them the
story of what's happened to her, and it goes a

(35:08):
little something like this one.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Okay, so.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
She was hitch hiking. It's you know, it's nineteen eighty five.
It hadn't been totally taken out of our society yet.
She stays hiking down the road. A guy pulls over.
He's wearing a business suit. He's wearing a suit. He looks,
you know, he looks like a professional businessman, is.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
On the level, and he's just very casually is like,
where do you need to go?

Speaker 2 (35:36):
I'll take you there. She jumps into the car. As
they're driving, he goes, sorry, I just have to stop
at my house. Really high jump out and roll. I
mean jump out then, because you've now deviated from the plan.
They only give them one deviation from the plan, I.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Would say, and then you're not familiar with your surroundings.
I mean not that it's either way, but then you're
not like, you're not on your way to the place
you want to, right, I know how to get there.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, exactly right. So they pull into his driveway. He
invites her in. She says, no, oh, wait in the car.
He says fine. He goes into the house for a
little while. He comes back out, and then he goes, sorry,
I just have to get something out of the back
seat really quick. He goes into the back seat behind
the passenger seat, and then he wraps a cord around
her neck and begins to strangle her. He chokes her
out in the car. She wakes up. The next thing

(36:22):
she knows, she's on the kitchen counter. She's tied down
to the kitchen counter naked, and she is blindfolded with
tape so she can see underneath the bottom of it.
It's not like material laying flat. Yeah, so she can
see that she's on a kitchen counter naked. He's standing
next to her naked, and he has set up a

(36:47):
video camera on a tripod, so he's videotaping it.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
He proceeds to rape her on that table. Then he
explains to her that he's a vampire, and she feels
a prick in her arm, and he begins to drain
blood from her arm and drink it.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
How how what at that moment?

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Is she like?

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Oh fuck?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah what level of So you're probably in shock when
something like that happens to you. But then I think
things would just get real black and white, like you
just be like, I need to get out of here. Now,
how do I get out of here? How do I
get out of here? Yeah? So uh so basically, uh.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
I talked through that and then lost my place. I'm sorry, no, no,
it's okay.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
So so then he takes her and he puts her
in the bathtub, and later that day he comes back.
He gets her, takes her out of the bathtub, puts
her on his bed, tranquilizes her some strong drug, and
rapes her again, then drink drains her blood again and
drinks it again, brings her back to the bathtub, and uh.

(37:59):
The next day she wakes up and he does it
again and then He tells her he has to leave
the house, but not to try to escape because his
brother's there and he'll kill her if she tries to escape.
She hears the car leave, and then she manages. So
she's now had her blood drained three times. She manages
to get up and to kind of stand and pull

(38:22):
herself up to the tiny bathroom window that's above the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Can you imagine how dizzy she is at that point?

Speaker 2 (38:27):
I mean, and also, just like the amount of times
I say I'm tired when I have done suck all
all day long is shocking. And I think about things
like this where when you have to like dig from
the bottom and like really powered yourself to her, It's like,
I hope I'm gonna be able to do that.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
I got up this morning and got really dizzy and like,
and I hadn't even done anything, And there's no blood
stolen from my person.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Percent of your blood I have one hundred.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Probably what if Elvis is drinking her blood?

Speaker 2 (38:57):
I I that's kind of cute. That's how that's why
you're so bonded. Okay, So she pulls herself up. She
sees that the lock on this bathroom window is broken.
So she opens it up, and she fucking pulls herself
up somehow pulls herself up and shimmy's out of this
window and falls down to the ground outside of the window.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
This is Mary Vincent lovel badassory.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yes, it's amazing and it's yeah, it's just pure. She
knows that this can't go on right, like this isn't
She doesn't have time right. What I love is that
she being told there's somebody that's gonna kill her, does
it anyway because she knows it's bullshit.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
It's fucking bullshit.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
So there's a cop in this one of the uh,
like the shows that I watched about this guy, a
cop who says, if you saw this window, you wouldn't
understand how a person got got out of it. Wow,
Like she made herself fit through a tiny bathroom window
and got out and that's when and then she crawled
to the road and finally got herself up and when

(39:57):
she started hopping, they said a couple of the there's
different on murder Pedia. A couple of the articles say
different things, but one says that a couple of trucks
passed her before anybody picked her up, and then finally
that that guy picked her up, which also that how
hard would it be to get into a strange, strange
man's car.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
I also have that thinking, Evan, this is probably from
goonies of like what if it was the guy coming
home that what is the vampire?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yes, exactly right, you get into the car the person
that got you there in the first place, and it's like,
to me, that's like the worst horror movie of like, no,
it's almost made it. Yeah, yeah, but she makes it.
So the doctors at the hospital say, if she had
stayed there one more night, she'd definitely be dead because
there's so much blood gone that they kind of are

(40:42):
amazed she got herself out of there. So uh so
she when she got into the car, I told you
that already right where, she said, remember that house, it's
is my favorite because it's just like she was on
she was like getting she had done.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
So they this girl is a vintage murderer. Now, yeah,
she really is.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
You know what I mean? Yes, to take care of business.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, she knows, she knows the signs and signals.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yeah, so she They go back to the house and
they have a search warrant to go back into the
house or I've completely lost my place. You might have
to fix this part, Stephen.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Mm hmm, Well, I'm embressed right now that you just
like I see you and I'm watching you and this
is all off the top of your head.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yes, because it's so when those ones happen where it's
like it's not just a standard awful thing, but it
goes into the world of almost a cult where you're
like these people. It's when you see the house and
the video just a white house on the side of
the road to that looks kind of nice. It looks
like nice family lives there, and inside is like nightmare

(41:45):
town beyond anyone's like you wouldn't even know what was
happening to you if somebody was draining and drinking your
blood insanity. Yeah, okay, So please get a search warrant
of thirty nine year old John Crutchley's home. His wife
and child had been out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend.
Uh uh uh huh, so he's a family man. When

(42:06):
they get there, they find the video camera equipment that
she described, but the tape inside had been recorded over.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Had he already come home and he knew she was gone?

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Okay, probably because so this videotape is recorded over. They
also find and photograph stacks of credit cards in other
people's names, and they find a pile of jewelry hidden
in the back of a closet, all women's jewelry and so,
and they photograph that. So they arrest John Crutchley on

(42:39):
kidnapping and rape charges. So the police in Brevard County
realize they have an advanced predator and this is not
standard fare for them, So they call the FBI and
for them. Who shows up but Robert Wrestler. So, Robert Wrestler,
we've talked about a couple of times, but he's the
famous FBI agent who worked in the behavioral science units.

(43:00):
He worked there for years. He's the guy that developed
ViCAP that basically enabled cops to start communicating on a
national database to put in them os of killers so
that uncaught cold cases and uncaught crimes that people could
enter them in and go, Is there anybody else that
likes to drain the blood of young women? That's Robert Russell.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
What a bad ass motherfucker he should have like, you know,
bamf you know, it's the last letters of your name
when you're like a doctor.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Oh, yeah, like PhD instead of MD.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, he's BAMF badass motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
So they thank god, they call him in and he
immediately has a profile going for this guy, and he
immediately tells the cops this is an organized serial killer
who has definitely killed before, because you don't have a
person that's this comfortable picking somebody off the street and
doing this crazy shit in his home. He didn't even
take her somewhere neutral. He took her to his home.

(43:59):
He's done it before.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
This is the result of escalation, not the beginning exactly right.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, this isn't for your first swing into I think
I'm a vampire? What should I do?

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Or I think I'm a rapist? How do I do this?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah? Let me let me do what I want all
the time. So he and he also I'm pretty sure
Jack Crawford from Silence of Lamb is based on him.
He's the one.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Robert Wrestler is the one that wrote a book called
Whoever Fights Monsters? Oh yeah, I was looking at that
from another murder.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
There's so much information in there.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, it's supposed to be the best book. I've never
read it, though, I'm going to read it. That's gonna
be my.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Next book too.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Let's fight it together.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Okay, good?

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Should we listen to it?

Speaker 3 (44:33):
I wonder if it's a good audiobook.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I like the idea of listening to it. Let's do it.
It's so much easier, it's so much easier. I'm in
my car so much more than I'm in my reading room.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
I promise your house will be so clean as soon
as you get into an audiobook that you're into.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, that's that's very true. Okay, So whoever fights Monsters
by Robert Wrestler, let's do a read along every Yeah.
But he's also just the guy that like he put it,
he puts it all together in that super interesting scientific
way where it's the guy that's like serial killers are
ninety percent or more are white men between the ages
of twenty eight and thirty whatever, Like that's this guy.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Yeah, so those start fascinating when they're so correct, Like
he does this kind of business, he's in this kind
of thing, he has, his family, he has, it's just like.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
And then they find the guy and it's like every
almost every time, it seems like.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
They imagine and I keep thinking, like, no fucking way,
that's crazy, and it's too simple, And then it's like exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Ding ding ding. Yeah, Robert Wrestler a plus, So okay,
excuse me. So they start because once they bring him
in and he tells them this, they start looking at
missing persons cases around Brevard County and they find that
there have been four dead unidentified women's bodies that have
been discovered in that county in the previous year.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Wait, that didn't immediately ring some bells. I mean, I
don't know how big that place is, but yeah, that's
fucking insane.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Yeah, in the area, they had in the one year,
four dead women that they didn't know who they were.
I can't breathe. Then Wrestler notices that John Crutchley has
moved a lot and changed jobs a lot, so they
start looking at places he used to live. They look
into his last known addresses and they see there's a

(46:14):
number of cold cases involving missing and the unidentified bodies
of young women. So they start like basically gathering up
all this information. So just a quick background, he uh,
the saddest sentence that I've ever read on Wikipedia is

(46:39):
about this about John Crutchley. It's the beginning of his
Wikipedia entry, and it's born to a well to do
family in Pittsburgh. John Crutchley was a friendless child. Oh,
a friendless child.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Oh how can that be?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Uh huh? And also when you look at his picture,
if you've ever seen the movie Rent, there's an actor
named Anthony Rapp who has like strawberry blonde hair. He
could play John Crutchley. He would have to get creep
out makeup done and probably lose a lot of like
not that he's in any he's perfectly fit to person,
but he doesn't have the same exact face. But he's

(47:17):
basically matches that.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
So it's he'll do it for a role.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
But anyway, it's just he looks He has like panic eyes.
He has dark eyes and blonde hair, which is scary, like.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
He's such a good descriptor yeah. And also the really
thick like eighties glass eighties aviator glasses, not sunglasses, but just.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
Glasses glasses, the pervert glasses.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Glasses, but not transition lenses. Interestingly, no, all right, excuse me.
So anyway, when he so he went to college, he
got his degree in shit, where'd it go?

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (47:54):
I don't have that hair. He got his degree in physics,
I think, or something like that. Then he went to
graduate school and he got his degree in electronic engineering
management or something like that. His first job out of
graduate school was at Delco Electronics in Cocomo, Indiana, and
he left there relatively soon after because he there was

(48:16):
an investigation made by the company into missing materials that
they thought he had stolen. Excuse me, so just right away,
a lot of a lot of question marks about this guy.
So then he moves to Fairfax County, Virginia in the
mid seventies. That's where his mother lived, and he gets remarried.

(48:39):
He got married in college and that that marriage ended
relatively quickly. So mid seventies, he gets remarried and he
works for several high tech firms in the DC area,
including trw Ica and Logicon Processes. I don't know none
of those. I mean, how could we ever, So about

(49:00):
this time when he's working at these companies, several teenage
girls in the area had disappeared. No In Fairfax, Virginia,
a twenty five year old woman named Deborah FitzJohn went
missing and her remains were later found in a remote
area by a hunter. She was last seen in Crutchley's
mobile home, OH Dear, which I don't understand. If he's
like an engineer at these high end companies, why is

(49:23):
he living in a mobile home park.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Maybe it's a fucking the lexus of mobile homes.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Oh true, true true. From nineteen seventy nine through nineteen
eighty three, Crutchley worked for a Washington based defense contractor
and had access to Norfolk Naval air stations, and during
that time, a twenty three year old Navy messenger named
Pamela and Kimbrew disappeared from the base on March twenty fifth,

(49:47):
nineteen eighty two. She was later found dead in a
car submerged at the end of a seaplane ramp. Her
killer tied her arms behind her with clothesline and then
tried to strangle her. There was a green ski mask
and finger prince that didn't belong to her or her
boyfriend in the car. And then a twenty one year
old Navy clerk named Carol Anne Molnar disappeared February sixth,

(50:09):
nineteen eighty three. Her decomposed body was found three months later,
partially buried under rocks of a sea wall at the
Norfolk base, and she had been strangled. So there's all
these cold cases around the areas where he.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Lived has so many and I've never heard of him.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, I know, well maybe because of this. So so
when the cops go back in for a second, they
get a second search warrant, and they go in to
seize all that stuff that they had seen on the
first time around. That stack of credit cards is gone,
and that pile of women's jewelry is gone. They can't
find it. That's what they should have taken it. And

(50:45):
then the tapes are They can't find any tapes that
have stuff on it. Why right, So because I think
the first time around they're just like, who, Like a
search warrant isn't the same as like a search in seizures.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Maybe there's got to be yeahs.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
And answers, but they were I think it's that thing
of they're taking pictures of it. They know you haven't
but then it's gone anyway, and it's that kind of like, well,
you didn't catch me with it, so there's nothing you
can do.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
So anyway, they were unable to find any hard evidence
that tied him to any of those cold cases that
I just talked about. But he was brought up on
charges of kidnapping, rape, grievous bodily harm for the exanguination,
and drug possession, and he got those last two charges.

(51:34):
Plea bargained down in exchange for agreeing to plead guilty
to kidnapping and rape. So they basically cut out the
fact that he drained and drank her blood and the
drugs he gave her so that he would just plead
guilty and like they could move it along, and in court,
the defense tried to present him as only being guilty

(51:56):
of having kinky sexual tastes and an interest in bondage.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, they referred to the nineteen year old victim as
a Manson girl who was in fact soliciting him for
kinky sex when they met. How did I know that
would happen? That she was into kinky sex and she wanted.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
It this way? Like, how could they know that?

Speaker 1 (52:16):
No, how did I know that that was gonna be?
That's how they were going to turn it around, Yeah,
because that's kind of standard fait.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, where it's it's almost like the most offensive thing
that could happen is the way they blow it up
so that now you're thinking about that instead, Like the
idea that they call her a Manson girl. Yeah, where
it's like it's nineteen eighty fucking five. Yeah, Like she's
not a Manson girl.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
This isn't This summer of love is long long over, right,
And whether or not she's a sex worker, pretty sure
that if she agreed to get into someone's car, having
her blood drained out of her body and being held
and repeatedly raped was in no way And like you
and I could be called like serial killer girls because
we're into like you know. So maybe she's fascinated Manson

(53:00):
and reads about him, but that that doesn't mean she's
like supports him, like I read about World War two,
but it doesn't mean I'm in too hitler.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Yeah, but I don't even think I think they were
just using that as a way to label her, you
know what I mean, just to say she's basically throwaway.
It's just a different way to say she's trash. Which
is the bullshit part. Here's a bigger bullshit part. Crutchley's
wife testified I was wondering where she was, Well, here
she is, and here's what she had to say. She says,

(53:28):
this crime is nothing more than S and M that
got out of hand and they ended up bringing in
he'd stacks of three by five cards of different women's
names and the S and M and bondage like sex
play that they liked to engage in, oh, because he
was apparently did it all the time, and many of
the people who had been sexual partners with him were

(53:51):
testified that they got into it because they were into
S and M. And then he would not respond to
the safe word and he ended up he would end
up raping them or attacking them in a way. But
they felt like they couldn't do anything about it, right
because it started out consensual, right, and then turned to
rape and there was nothing they could do, so they
you know, that's kind of an amazing thing, is like

(54:11):
that to be in a world like that, where it
is actually all about this kind of the consensual agreement
and the like it's an act of faith almost, And
then the only thing they can do is that when
it turns out he's a serial killer vampire, they can
be like that happened to me.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Too, and go to the cops.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Or I did go to the cops and they were like, wait, so.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
So you answered this personal line or whatever.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Yeah. It's like if you're a drug dealer and you
get robbed. You're not going to go to the cops
and be like, I was fealing drugs and I got robbed.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, that's right, not that that's the same anyway. Yeah, anyway,
So the wife comes out, she says that, and then
she in reference to this nineteen year old girl being
tied down to a kitchen counter, raped and having her
blood drained, the wife says that this had been a
quote gentle rape, devoid of any overt brutality. She wasn't

(55:01):
fucking there, and that's what she is testifying in court, gentle.
It's insanity is what it is. Also, after the trial,
this same wife told reporters that she couldn't quite understand
what the fuss was since her husband was just quote
a kinky sort of guy. Dad, dad, honey. So here's

(55:22):
the good part, Okay, when they sentenced him. Based on
Robert Wrestler's testimony at the sentencing hearing, where he says,
this is absolutely an organized serial killer. We just haven't
found the bodies. We're like coming in on the back
end of his run, and you know, and basically in
all the profiling that he gave, the judge in this

(55:43):
case chose to exceed the state guidelines on rape and
kidnap charges and sentenced John Crutchley to twenty five years
in life to life in prison with fifty years subsequent parole. Fucking,
you did good. And then Robert Wrestler calls this after
the sentencing's over and he goes to jail. Robert Wrestler's like, yeah,

(56:05):
he's gonna get out early on good behavior. That's how
this goes. And that's exactly what happened. He served eleven years.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Eleven What does twenty five to life mean?

Speaker 2 (56:16):
Well, if you're a good behavior, if.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
You don't kill anyone in prison.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
So he serves eleven years. He gets out in August
of nineteen ninety six on good behavior, but the city
officials of Malabar and both Melibar and Fairfax, Virginia are like,
you're absolutely not coming here. You can't live here, and
you can't come.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Here, So.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
He has to go. They put him in a halfway
house in Orlando where he has to then live, serve
out his fifty years parole, and begin to pay the
restitution that he owes. And well, the day after he's
released from prison, I hope this is what I think
it is, he tests positive for marijuana and is arrested.
It's not what I thought it was gonna be. No,
but that's great. And because it's his third strike, the

(57:03):
first being kidnapping, in the second being rape, pot is
his third strike, he goes back to jail for life.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Shut your fucking mouth.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Uh euh So, what I think happened is like the
cops knew, especially because of Robert Wrestler. They're just like,
this guy's going to slip through the cracks because rape
isn't that big of a deal to our legal system,
and so they just stayed on him. They tested him.
The pot that was in his system was from a
party they threw him before he left jail, So he

(57:32):
had smoked pot in jail.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
What ok So? But I wonder if, like, are you
on parole yet in jail?

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Though? No, but you're you're if it's still in your
system when you're on parolled on day one, you test
positive for marijuana, it doesn't matter when it got into
your system. Wow, you didn't allowed to have it in
your system? Had it at your party in jail two?
So he goes back, He goes back, third strike, he's
in jail for life. And then in March of two

(57:58):
thousand and two, he's found dead in his cell with
a plastic bag over his head and he died asphyxiation.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Wow, but we don't know if it's suicide or not.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
But of note, and I think this is also this
is a fascinating part where I wish I was better
at research. I wish I took more time, and I
wish there was like I didn't really find that many
that many articles about this in particular, but I would
love to know. When he was arrested, he was found
to be in possession of a great deal of highly

(58:28):
classified information about naval weaponry and communication, but unnamed federal
agencies other than the FBI considered opening an espionage case
against him, and his employer, Harris Corporation, was involved not
only with NASA research and launch facilities at Cape Canaveral,
but also with other naval contractors and subcontracts.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
So he was stealing information and that's why I got
fired initially, and sharing it with fucking Russians.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
They don't know. Probably you just rewrote that ending. Well,
I mean what it is is we know that he
is a thief, aside from all these other ways that
he's a criminal. He has no problem stealing shit from
these and he is. He was a very very intelligent
and very successful like computer engineers.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Engineers are not stupid people. No, over across the board.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
No, So that's why they were you know. Russeller was saying,
there's many bodies that are his responsibility that we just
haven't found because he's so organized and he's been doing
this so long and his back then, when you moved
around a lot, there was no way to trace anybody
or anything. Also, in nineteen eighty nine, crutch Lee's former

(59:42):
lawyer stated that he that Krushley was prepared to confess
to at least three murders and lead police to the
burial sites, but that negotiations between Crutchley and the prosecutors
fell through, so he just didn't do it. What happened,
it was like he wanted too much. I don't know.
That's another thing that's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah, yeah, so they think I think that the thing
on murder Pedia has victims like zero to thirty plus
in terms of murder victims. They just they could associate
him in all these places that he's lived with girls
just disappearing, But they don't know for sure, dude. That's

(01:00:25):
and even if it's like, okay, a few of them
wish someone were murdered by someone else, that's still an
insane amount.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
It's not going to be half, it's going to be
at least you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yeah, shit, dude. So to say his name again, John Crutchley,
the vampire rapist.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Okay, yeah, I had never heard of that one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Isn't that nuts? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Yeah, that's a great one. I thought he was going
to get stabbed at death in prison. Oh, I thought
what was going to happen?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Yeah, I mean I don't know. Maybe he uh, maybe
he immediately like when he was in high school, used
to fix people's stare for money. Oh no, yeah, so
maybe he just was one of those people that used
all of his like his abilities for other people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Well, I can't imagine prison inmates throw just everyone a
goodbye party with pot, you know what I mean? Like,
that's not for the guy, they not. Everyone gets a
cake and weed, Yeah, for their goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Yes, he claimed that they blew the pot in his face.
It was not his fault.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Yes, my cat says that to remember knowing people who
did that to their pets.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Yeah, it's the creepiest thing. Of all time horrible? What's
wrong with?

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Oh he likes and we're back, Karen, any updates on
this awful case.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yes, so, John Crutchley is suspected of being responsible for
up to thirty murders, but there's never been enough of
a concrete connection to those to charge him in those
additional cases. Robert Wrestler, the great FBI feiler, died in
twenty thirteen, and the role of Bill Tench on mind Hunter,

(01:02:05):
the Netflix series played by Holt mclaney, is based on
Robert Wrestler. So it's kind of cool, like he has
a very legitimate, you know, kind of like a way
to acknowledge and stop a certain type of super criminal,
like a hyper criminal that nobody really had their minds

(01:02:26):
wrapped around when he first started working on it, and
to groundbreak in a way that's like, yeah, these aren't
people that are going to be rehabilitated the peasing with
in any way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a little different.
It's amazing. Yeah, And that's it. So let's get into
Georgia's story about Janine Jones. Today.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I have an angel of death, so I've been looking
up the specific angel of death for a couple of
weeks now, like on a off if I want to
do him, and it's just kind of So yesterday I
was at like a little Memorial Day gathering and someone
brought this one up that I'd never heard of, and
it's some news like today, and so I looked it

(01:03:15):
up and I'm like, this is perfect. So this is
Janine Jones.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Do you know her?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
She's the angel of Death. So Janine, which everyone I
don't know, if everyone knows this is a nurse or
doctor or some kind of medical professional who kills their patients. Yeah, okay.
So Janine Jones was born July thirteenth, nineteen fifty. She
grew up in northwest San Antonio. She was adopted by

(01:03:44):
a nightclub owner and he owned the kit Kat Swim Club, which, like,
you know, is the best place to be swim club?

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Yeah, a nighttime swimming club.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
I don't know if there's anything to even do with swimming.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Please, I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Go to this club. There's a pool in the middle.
Who knows, Yes, let's open it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Yes, yeah, night swimming lights off?

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Oh my god, shit, you know it's so creepy. What
we just fucking ate a kitcat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
No, true, Joe, such a delicious kit cat. What are
the chances from the Seattle Show if you gave it
to us?

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
No? Oh, and they were they but they knew you
love Canadian kitkats, so they came, which are legit better?

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
It's so much better?

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
So he her father managed the club and her adopted
mother Gladys fun records at the turntable. So they sound
like a fucking fun time awesome couple.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Was this in the seventies?

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
This was in and probably fifties, sixties, seventies, so somewhere
around that doesn't say her.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Mom's a DJ and or dad's the club owner.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah, and so like I think it's as a kid,
So it was probably in the sixties. Like they sound
fucking tits. Yeah, why aren't you cool? They adopt four kids.
They sound awesome. One of the brothers died of cancer
and another was killed by the explosion of a bomb
he had made when they were young. Oh no, yeah,
So Janine worked as a beautritian and then she attended

(01:05:06):
night nursing school in the late seventies. She was super smart.
She scored more than two hundred points above the passing
grade on her licensing exam, on her nursing exam. Shit,
And so after school she'd been working as a licensed
vocational nurse at Bexar County Hospital in San Antonio, which
a licensed nurse is like not an RN, right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
It's I think it's a step below. Yeah, but I
could be wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
No, you're right, because they kept talking about that, so
I think you're correct.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Yeah, RN is like the thing. My mom was an RN,
so she's a real judgie about other medical assistants and
stuff like that. Or she would get very offended when
people only had medical.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Assistance and non nurse right, or they assumed she wasn't
an RN, right, So very.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Few people ever did that though.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Yeah, she had a real RN feel about Yeah, well
I think this chick did too, because a lot of
people thought she was. But she was put in the
eight bed pediatric intensive care unit and the RNs basically
said they were babysitters, which.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Is like and she was just like fuck that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
She knew a lot about anatomy and all these smart things.
So Bexar County would send its critically ill children there
when they couldn't afford a private hospital, so they basically
didn't have insurance, and they were like, you're off to
this place. Oh no, yeah, which is just like, let's
talk about healthcare, man, let's talk about it for three hours.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
Let's get into it right now, let's solve it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
So, Janine worked three to eleven PM shift, and when
baby started dying on her shift regularly, the other nurses
she worked with started calling.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
It the death shift.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Oh shit, and the other nurses were like, what's up, supervisors,
There's something going on, but they didn't want to believe.
Supers didn't want to believe that the seemingly super dedicated
nurse was hurting her patients, so they didn't even look
into it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
But then during it just like, I just don't want
it to be that way.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Yeah, she's really intense large, she can't be Yeah. So
then eventually, during a fifteen month period in nineteen eighty
one and eighty two, forty okay, wait, not not yet.
So during a fifteen month period in eighty one and
eighty two, forty two children died while undergoing treatment in
the pediatric unit. Thirty four of those patients died during

(01:07:23):
the three to eleven PM shifts. Oh my god, and
that we're patient like these are critically ill infants and like, yeah, children, yeah,
and she had directly cared for twenty of those children.
So the patients experienced uncontrollable bleeding, seizures, and breathing problems
that were correlated to her. So in early December of

(01:07:45):
eighty one, an infant named josh Sawyer Joshua Sawyer goes
to the Pediatric ICEEU after a fire destroyed his family's home.
So he's an infant. He was suffering from smoke inhalationian
and he's suffering seizures and hardiac arrest. When he gets there,
he's treated with lantin dilantin.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
That's my medicine.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
That's a seaz your medication, right, Oh my god, I.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Was legitimately excited to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
Mind was sounded sarcastic, but I was like, oh my god, No,
that's no, I'm excited for you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
That's mine. Thank you me too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Do you also take fen of barbadoll phoena barbitol.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
No, okay, it's not like, okay, that's old kind of yeah.
Mine's a little bit old too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
They want me to not take it anymore, but it's
the only thing that controls my seasures. Really, hmm. Wonder
if it changes, like like when you change ages and
you get used. You know, probably the brain is such
a mystery, but it can't be fun to be like,
let's try this one now. In the same way with anidepressants,
it's like, no, please, don't put me on a new one.
I know it's going to be months of fucking uh

(01:08:46):
trial and error.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Yeah, and mine My trial and error was I would
have half seizures and spin in a circle like a
dog that's about to take a nap.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Care. I did it on stage a couple of times,
and you had to lay down right yep, because.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
I be turning in like looking I would. It was
like I was needed to look over my shoulder. Oh
I want to cry for like fifteen seconds. Oh my god,
he's fucking insane. Maybe I've been through the mill you
really have. That's that makes me so sad. I love
that I am. No matter what the scenario, we could
be talking about children being murdered, I can still make

(01:09:22):
it about me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
And that's what this podcast is. Isn't it my favorite
making it about me moment? My favorite meater? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Sorry, Umm no, that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Anyways, back to this infant. So he's on by lantern
and phenobarbital, and by his fourth day at the ICU,
the seizures had stopped and he was breathing on his own.
But his mother, Connie weeks at the urging of a friend.
So she'd been bedside this whole fucking time, freaking out
after her entire house burned down, and she has having
a fucking seizure, no panic attack, baby, friend is like,

(01:09:59):
get out of here. She goes home to take a shower,
change her clothes, like be normal, and also goes to
see a movie, which is like they want her to
be distracted, yes, and relax right, which seems hard. I mean,
so in the theater watching the movie, the usher finds
her no and is like, they meet you at the

(01:10:19):
hospital immediately, because when she leapt he was like, probably stable, right,
Jesus Man. So Joshua's heart had begun racing a few
hours after after Janine took over his care that day.
Doctors weren't able to help him, and he died the
following day after suffering two more cardiac arrests. She was

(01:10:42):
also on duty at the time. Wait, she was on
duty again, so like the next day at the time
of the death as well, and blood tests done between
his cardiac episodes that overlooked showed more than three times
the therapeutic level of dilantin in his system times. So
the hospital started private searches finally to determine if Gene

(01:11:05):
which I think she was called Gene, also was killing patients. So,
between May and December of eighty one, the last of
the hospital's internal inquiries found ten children in the ICU
had died after quote sudden and unexplained complications. In all
ten cases, Jeanine Jones was present at the child's bedside
during what the report gently terms the final events. Ough

(01:11:29):
so instead of okay, But the hospital was in the
middle of a public relations campaign designed to make over
its image, and so it didn't tell the police of
the findings. Oh uh huh, which were that near the findings,
children were twenty five point five times more likely to
suffer a medical emergency and ten point seven times more

(01:11:50):
likely to die during her shift. Fuck yeah, tell somebody, dude.
Alert the fucking media. Actually, I feel like the media
is a great place to turn when no one will
fucking listen to you, for sure, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Especially independently, right owned a Rolling Stone if you will.
I don't know if that's that's the end of Firestarter,
when they're like running, running, running from the government and
the black ops and the you know men in black
and all that, and they finally like the dad is killed. Anyway,
I haven't seen it, so I read it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
I read it when I was like thirteen. I was obsessed. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
They gave me nightmares when I read it, and I
was like, probably the same age as you. But at
the very end, like they put the story of all
of it into an envelope and drop it off at
Rolling Stone.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
That's the way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
It made me so excited when I got okay an
that's when I was watching The Keepers. I was like,
you know, they start talking to a journalist and it's like,
no one will listen to you. Bring all your evidence
to like some badass investigative journalists.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
How about that fucking journalist. By the way, I love
that man so much from The Keepers. He is a genius.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
They are so important.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Yeah, they're amazing, and there's a resurgence of them now
that we all realize that journalism is very important.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Oops.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
You need them, yes badly.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
So instead of letting everyone know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
In March of eighty two, they're all like, all right,
you know what we're going to do instead of telling
anyone about Janine, We're going to take all of those
nurses that are on the ICU and upgrade them to
nursing staff. So they all get the fuck out of there,
all right. They take all of them. They say they're
upgrading to nursing staffs to only be registered nurses in

(01:13:26):
that section, and they kick all of them out. So
all the nurses who were there get kicked the fuck out. Yeah,
they offer them jobs and other parts of it, but
this is the way to to.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
Just not fire her.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
And all of those nurses, including Janine, were given good recommendations,
giving them no proof that it was her. Well, they
went through this whole thing, and I think they did,
but they were just like, didn't want to have a
pr thing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
This is very much how the Catholic Church would have acted.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
Yeah, right, just move them around and move them around,
put them somewhere that they're not around children anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Like, yeah, it's somebody else's problem, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
In her recommendation letter, she was described as loyal, dependable,
and trustworthy. Yeah. So five months later, she takes a
job with a pediatrician, doctor Kathleen Holland in Kerrville, Caraville,
probably Currville, because this bill k E r r v
I l E Curville. Yeah, this is the part in

(01:14:22):
the live shows where they would start screaming at us,
all in us and we wouldn't understand a single fucking word.
So in a period of thirty one days as she's
working there seven patients in eight separate medical emergencies.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
How to be taken to the hospital in a month?

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Huh Yeah, yeah, because here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
It's such an obsession for I'm assuming she she knows,
like this is a way smaller like playing field, you'll
it'll be so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Much more obviously, does it anyway, she can't not do it? Yeah,
it's so crazy. Well, you know, is it the thing
of like what is the thing? Does she want to
look like a hero? Is she does she have? Yeah,
she wants to save the day. It seems like a lot,
which is a lot of the reason they do that.
Most people do that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
I believe that's what it is. It's like they it's
a right, it's so that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
They were writt naming some things. It's that it's putting
the quote putting them out of their misery when it's
like older people, which isn't true because this other dude
I was looking up just killed like people who came
in for like a broken arm or some shit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Yeah. I don't believe the putting and your misery because
I did that British doctor I can't remember. But he
did the same thing, and it was people who were
not in misery, right, there was nothing wrong with them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, he just liked killing people. He liked the control.
And actually you brought up misery and firestarter. That's weird.
It's said that this one Jeanine is one of the
what Stephen King wrote misery when he wrote Anny Bates.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
No, Kathy Bates is the actress Annie. I can't remember
the character.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
That's one of my favorite movies.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (01:15:53):
We need to watch.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
It's so horrifying. It's she's the scariest fucking thing in
the world.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Does she want an Emmy oscar? Whatever?

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
She shot one book man, she should have swept, she
should have gotten it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
What is it called the glad or its no, what's not?

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
I didn't mean you know what I mean? Listen the
Tony's Yeah, but what's it called in thirty Rock? When
you went all of them, you got yeah the egoch
Bubba's thirty Rock. Well, this is like, bitch, get your
shit together, mom, okay, okay, takes a job thirty one days,
seven patients. The doctor in the office then discovered puncture

(01:16:32):
marks in a bottle of here we go psychon cool
psychonal chlorine, cyconal chlorine, second in the drug storage where
only she and Jones had access and contents of the
apparently full bottle. Bottle was supposed to be full, later
found to be diluted. So basically, she's a teenager taking
the vodka bottle and fucking out of the freezer. Is

(01:16:55):
this you? There's some story of like that. Some roommate
was like some girl at her roommate took her vodka
bottle that fell out of the fridge and broke No, no, no,
the vodka was frozen, which it doesn't do, which means
it was always water.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
At that point.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
There, it is something ridiculous. Yeah, that's the bust. Yeah,
So basically she's a monster. So the drug, which I
refuse to say again, is a powerful paralytic that causes
temporary paralysis of all.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
Skeletal muscles as well as those that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
Control breathing, so a patient can't breathe well under the influence,
and small children cardiac arrest is the ultimate result due
to lack of respiration.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
One of those children at this location was Chelsea McClelland.
She died on September seventeenth, nineteen eighty two. She was
a fifteen month old. She went into a respiratory failure
after Jones injected her. Was supposed to be routine immunizations.
So you go in to get like cholera, whatever the
fuck they immune you for, and chuck. She fucking dies.

(01:18:02):
A powerful it's usually used as general anesthesia for surgical patients.
So she's charged with Chelsea's murder, but the prosecutors decided
not to file charges against her in the death of
any of the children she was expected of killing because
they thought that the ninety nine year sentence that she
got she was found guilty nine nine year sents plus.
She also got a sixty year sentence for giving a

(01:18:25):
four week old Rolando Santos a large dose of the
blood thinner heparin, but he survived. But she had another
sixty years and in nineteen eighty four, and they were like, well,
she'll never get out, so we don't really need to
prosecute her for anymore people. She'll be in jail for
the rest of her life, right, yeah, nope, no, no,
all right, So today's what the thirtieth We decided.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Today is the thirtieth. Okay, that's the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
So on oh yeah, I mean I guess you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
We decide now, we decide.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
No, we didn't tell you on May twenty fifth of
twenty eighteen, so a year from basically a couple days ago.
She's sixty six years old. She's supposed to be eligible.
She's been eligible for poaroles since eighty nine, but is
repeatedly denied because she's a monster. But she's going. She
was said to be released from prison after serving one

(01:19:17):
third of her sentence.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
So in a year.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
Wow, yeah, and it's because we're here we go again
with good behavior Texas had. Texas created a law called
good Time. The Good Time Law, which is not a
good time probably fort the Victims, which was created to
combat prison overcrowding, allows inmates convicted of a violent of

(01:19:40):
violent crimes between seventy seven and eighty seven to be
released if they have a record of good behavior, Like
let the dude who got caught with some pot go.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Yeah, that's just it, you know, it's that's just it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
You had meth in your pocket that you were using.
It wasn't enough to sell.

Speaker 2 (01:19:57):
Who fucked? Let them out? Yeah? Who cares? Right compared
to the people who clearly have a mental illness compulsion
to what do you exact bodily harm on their fellow
man who have.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
No empathetic tendencies whatsoever. Who if you're I'm sorry, but
if you're over the age of twenty one and you
commit murder, you know you've thought this through in some point.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
It's you know, you're not going that. The rehab thing
is so.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Hard to think when it's people who have murdered, systematically
murder people in cold blood.

Speaker 2 (01:20:32):
And systematically murdered infants. Were that you were in charge
of that, your nurse, it's part of your I don't
know if nurses taken oath or that, they's a part
of it. It's part of going. I'm a medical worker,
I'm going to act like I'm going to stand in
family member watching your child while your child is at
the most vulnerable point it could possibly be.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
It's almost Yeah, it should be worse when you agree
or you are supposed to be taking care of someone
or making them live.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
Yeah, yeah, Because the thing is, we know she's been
in jail safe for thirty years or whatever it is
she gets out of jail, that thing that she has
has in probably no way been addressed of I need
to be. It's just her life is dedicated to making
just like serial killers, they kill, that's what they do.

(01:21:24):
They have to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
And then it's that charm. You have to be a
charming manipulator to get away with this thing for so
long that I don't care how much therapy you've had
in prison. You're a charming manipulator. You're not going to
fucking exercise that out of someone, right, I don't care
how good of a therapist you are.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
Yeah, yeah, And I don't care, And I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Maybe you're better, maybe you're not like that anymore. You
fucking still have to pay for the crime you committed. Yeah,
I don't care if you're fucking saint well.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
And also it's the thing of trying to get things
because there's so much backlog in this system. They're just
trying to get things moved through. But it's like, you know,
and hopefully this when like they come upon this, for
like the parole board or whatever, that's taken into consideration.
This isn't a person that just like accidentally hit somebody

(01:22:12):
with her car or intentionally hit somebody with her car
in a crime of passion, well, a person who's systematically
murdered babies.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
It's also that thing of like, uh yeah, So the
parole board said no because they looked at the evidence
and realized time and time again that she shouldn't be out.
What is the point of our judicial system who gave
her ninety nine years for this horrible crime, if you're
just gonna override it, you know, like it makes people

(01:22:40):
not as scared to commit crimes because it's listen, hey, listen,
listen and listen, listen. Look there we go. Da da
da da dah. Okay, So good behavior. Because because of this,
breck Brexar County prosecutors were like, how fucking though a

(01:23:04):
couple of years ago I think they found out about this,
they launched a secret investigation into her time as a nurse,
and when they realized that she's going to be released.
They believe that she may They estimate that she may
have killed as many as forty to sixty fuck suspicious
deaths under her watch.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
She killed your grammar school class of job. I'd see
three kids in my.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
Class, Okay, So okay, I thought you meant in you
not in your own class, but like in multiple classes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
No, no, no, in like grammar school. I'm just thinking,
like our sixth grade class had sixty three kids. Yeah,
it would be as if she went through and systematically
secretly poisoned every single one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:23:48):
Jesus Christ as babies, as babies, I'm trying to put
out there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
I'm to pa put a metaphor out there that only
I can relate to you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
No, that's a good one, because I wouldn't have known
what to do, like what to say, like they killed
the amount of people who were at the pool yesterday.
Like no, but that doesn't make any sense, right, You're
right better? Yeah, okay, so on. So on May twenty fifth,
a couple fucking days ago. So twenty seventeen, Brexar County
District's Attorney's office announced that she had been charged in

(01:24:16):
the eighty one death of eleven month old Joshua Sawyer,
the kid who got killed because his house burned down.
So they went back to that poor kid and charged she.
They charged her, so I think she's just going straight
to the other county.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
They're just basically transferring her to another prison, and she's
not getting out.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
So she would have gotten out and she won't. So
District Attorney Sam D. Millsap Junior, Oh, Ronnie's nephew, is
that Well, it's a deep cut for all the middle
aged people.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
Ronnie Millsap is a country singer. Nope, Oh you.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
Told me about home, No I am Who was the
guy that you told me about?

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Who was in Mickey Gilly?

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Yeah? Who was in the show we like call all
Fargo mac Davis.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
Okay, that's mac Davis. But actually same school, ok, same
like class.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
Someone some middle aged is losing his mind right now. Yeah,
that you said that, perhaps Ronnie Millsap himself. Maybe Ronnie
Millsap was blind. That's something we could look up. But why,
I mean, why don't We're not worried about facts right now?

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
This isn't a fucking country music podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Listen, sorry, start your own podcast about music if you
really want to know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
There's stuff, goddamn interested in his life.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
So he this dude Millsap Junior. He's six months into
an investigation of the county Bexar County Hospital, which is
now called but but Nope, okay, which is now called
University Hospital of San Antonio, and everyone's like, I went there,

(01:25:56):
so they changed their name.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
Yeah, smart move. So he is looking.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
Into why no one stopped all of these so like
holding them accountable, thank god? Yes, Oh, he says he's
focusing his criminal investigation not only on Jeanine, but also
on the hospital for its in actions. So josh Sawyer's
death the sweet kid. One of the reasons they're able
to prosecute it now and why they have such strong

(01:26:22):
evidence is because Joshua's mother kept her son's and medical
records for more than three decades and she said it's
all I had left of Joshua. She said everything else
was destroyed in the fire.

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
Oh no, I'm crying. I don't know why. That gets
me so bad, so sad, it's so goddamn sad.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
She has she walks away from that hospital with nothing,
and so she keeps these records and they probably didn't
have them anymore, you know how those records, things go
exactly right. And also it's just that fucking hospital put
their own image above human life, which is the opposite

(01:27:02):
reason to have a hospital. And it's somehow so much
worse that it was children children. Yeah, it's almost worse.
I mean, no one is better than the next, but
it's so heartless.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
It's well, they just have no They couldn't even fight.
It's not like somebody they could go, what are you,
why are you putting that needle in my arm or anything.
It's just like I.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Don't see they can say I don't feel well, you know,
it's this thing of Yeah, it could have been stopped
at any time, had anyone taken the time to do
their job, which is to protect the patients, not the hospital.
It's like the people who could have investigated what was
going on there, who worked there, it wasn't they didn't
know in the hospital.

Speaker 3 (01:27:43):
It's not like they needed to worry about the image
of the hospital, right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
And also, I mean, it's a fucking hospital. It's not
like you just started a pr company. Yeah, people are
going to go to the hospital. They have to sell
up a ladder. You have a blade of you know,
a knife in your arm whatever it is. It's not
like you're like, oh, don't go to that hospital. Well
I did, they had some issues.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
I went to Hollywood Presbyterian because I needed help immediately
in that place. And I want to talk shit out
of school and on a podcast, But that's what you're doing.
That's what I'm doing. All I'm going to say is
don't go there.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Bad news very is that the one that's on Western.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
Yeah, no, Vermont Vermont on Vermont, Yeah, down by the Wendy's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Right, Yeah, across from the Wendy's. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
Wow, that everything is shut up, Stephen. That's what That's
how I measure all things Wendy. How close to Wendy's. Yes,
that's the closest one. But I knew immediately. Yes, yeah,
see you do that too. Well.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
I've been there.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
I mean, there's nothing worse when you're in like when
you're in a bad spot. And it's so weird because
having a nurse mom growing up when we would have
to go was like my mom worked for Kaiser, so
we just always go to a Kaiser. Yeah, like the
the we never didn't have insurance, we never didn't have coverage,
all of that stuff, and my mom used to harp
on me when I didn't have insurance after they took

(01:29:04):
me and my sister off there, or like your adults
get your own, and I didn't, of course, and then
she'd be like, you have to get insurance, and I'd
just be like, what for why? Well, then when I
had my seizures, I didn't have insurance and I went
to Harbor UCLA in Torrance, and it was horrifying when

(01:29:24):
you don't want to go to a county hospital without
your insurance.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
Well, look and listen, they're in they're poor neighborhoods. That Hollywood,
you know, Western End, fucking Fountain is not the center
of Beverly.

Speaker 2 (01:29:38):
Hills and all the bad shit that happens in that neighborhood.
People just get done for those hospitals. It's not that
they're bad people. It's not that the people that work
there aren't talented. It's that they're the ones that are
like almost like it's front line style where they're just
seeing tons of stuff all the time. It's rough.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Listen, Burbank Urgent Care shout out. Hey, So that's the
story of Janine Jones. She's the angel of death. Wow,
thank god, they fucking swooped right in, right in time
and kept her off the streets because you know, like, yeah,
they'd be like, you can't be in their children, but
that she falls through the cracks.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Also, then she just is going to do something. She's
going to like start this is my theory. But she
would then start driving for meals on wheels and suddenly
people you know what I mean, she would she doesn't
mean it's poison people to death. Oh my gosh, she
would just go do it some other way, because it's
a compulsion that hasn't been addressed I'm sure or fixed
in her in any way.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
I wonder where it came from, because it feels like
there's like maybe it's her brother's dying. Maybe it's when
she is little. I mean there has to be. And
she was married and had two children. Yeah. I got
to mention that, like, so she had babies at one point.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, something happened like in her life
because aside from a mental illness obviously when it's I've
read a lot more about less about angels of death
because they just I find that they're so straightforward.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
It's like, oh, yeah, that's why the other one I
was just like, I don't know if I can do that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:06):
It's just kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
It's just plain sad. But it's interesting because it's very
similar to the Munchausen's by proxy where and that's the
real one, where oftentimes it's mothers poisoning their children and
they get so much out of doctors and staff members
and everybody worrying about them, pitying them, they become the

(01:31:27):
focus of the attention people.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Well. The thing too, is that she was saying that
her first, the first patient she ever had, I see
you as an infant who died on her watch, and
it broke her heart. But I wonder either she killed
that infant or the attention she got when that happened,
having been this child's nurse at the time was so
fulfilling that she couldn't stop because maybe, you know, she

(01:31:51):
had just been a perfectionist before that, or maybe she
had just you know, it's the thing of how some
people love having the approval of people who above them.
They're you know, so like the doctors and our ends
were like commending her for how she dealt with it
and comforting her, comforting her. Yeah, yeah, it's so fascinating.

(01:32:11):
You see that horrible video, and they put a video
camera hidden in No, don't want to well, I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
Say the word slowly. No, I can stop you. I'm
not going to say it.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
When kids survives, the kid survives.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
Is it a babysitter that abuses the child?

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
No, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
I can see. I can still see in my head
and it's so.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
Warm, me too, And I can't watch that. Uh No,
a father.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
They put a video camera in there because they knew
something was going on in the hospital. In the hospital
room where the little girl was sick, he puts his
body on top of hers and tries to like stop
her from breathing, and a nurse rushes in and catches
him and he gets arrested. And because he had Munchausen's, Yeah,
he was making herself.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
He's trying to smother her. Yeah, holy shit, I'm sorry
you crying? No, no, no, why not? I can did
you have? No? I used it up on that. The
idea of that the only thing you have left of
your child is medical records is just like.

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
I know, but how triumphant for her?

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
Well, thank fucking god? Yeah, because then it's.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
Yeah, yeah, half those podcasts we listen to that are
like investigative reporting. Is them trying to get whatever basic
medical records or crime records? Yeah, that they can't that
no one will give them.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
That's all of the keepers. Is them going, I'm sorry,
how do you not have these records anymore? How do
they not exist anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
There's a lot of floods and basements of police stations,
so much flooding. There's a flooding is a what's it called?
It's a common problem, yeah, or it's an epidemic. Yes, anyways,
Well that's well, that was great. That's been two hours
of my favorite murder.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
Wow. Really I don't know. Okay, we're back. Are there
any updates on this case?

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Yes? Actually, in twenty twenty is part of a plea deal,
Janine Jones pled guilty to murdering Joshua Sawyer quote with
a deadly weapon and received a life sentence. This required
her to serve twenty years before becoming eligible for parole,
so with credit for time she'd already served awaiting trial,
this would keep her behind bars at minimum until December

(01:34:17):
of twenty thirty seven, when she would be eighty seven
years old, so she might get out then. I mean,
who the fuck knows, and in her victim impact statement,
Connie Weeks, Joshua Sawyer's mother told Jones, quote, I'm glad
today that you will never see daylight as a free woman,
and your life will end in captivity for killing my son.
I leave you with this.

Speaker 1 (01:34:37):
I hope for you to live a long and miserable
life behind bars. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 (01:34:44):
End quote, which is wow, yeah, so powerful. Yeah, okay,
well then it's time to wrap up this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
Oh yeah, so because that was horrible and actually I
did not think this through of what my thing was
from this week.

Speaker 2 (01:35:02):
Yeah, you go first. No, okay, I said you had
one I.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Do, and I didn't think it through. Totally didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
I met my friend's brand new baby yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:35:15):
I swear to god, I didn't do that on purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
And for a minute I thought I had.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
Done a different murder. I was doing a different murder.
Oh my god, yeah, curtain Laurene. I didn't go because
I was sick.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
Oh, I would have passed harassed. You do in coming?

Speaker 2 (01:35:29):
No, I mean, idn't be a browned baby and have
this disgusting You should have coughed on the babies.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
So I went to my friend current Lauren's house. Yesterday
they have the Wedlock podcast and audible.

Speaker 2 (01:35:43):
It's great. Everyone listened.

Speaker 1 (01:35:44):
And this baby, it's like two months old, and it's
so weird to see your friend's face in a baby.

Speaker 3 (01:35:51):
And I kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
And the baby's laughing with me. And this baby is
so chill and sweet and has he's like dark gray
blue eye. I mean she's darling, I mean's olive. And
I was for a moment like a So I turned
to Vince and I said, a dog or a baby.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
Pick one. So we're gonna get a dog.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
That's exactly the way you should make decisions like that.
Oh yeah, nice ultimatums.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Yeah you can get a dog with blue eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
I can get a baby dog.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
Yeah that's right. Oh that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:36:24):
Yeah, what's yours.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
I can't wait to see that baby.

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
Oh cutie.

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
I mean we did mention it, I guess I will
say this. We did mention it very briefly on the
minisode that you and I went to a therapy session together,
and I have to say it just made me. First
of all, it made me so happy because we both
know how to be in therapy. So we we cut
to the chase really fast, I just like, this is
what we need, we have to like whatever. But it

(01:36:49):
made me feel so fucking mature and like like we're not.
It's not like there's a problem we have. We're trying
to prevent a problem because we are in a very
we're in rare air. No, we can't go to anybody
that got and go, hey, have you ever gone through
this before, because no one that I know has in
this specific way, And we basically we of course we

(01:37:11):
have Stephen, but we just have each other.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
We've argued in front of Stephen before, sweetly with his
face pretending to write stuck in.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
Where we just it's just this. It was it just
felt like such a like we were just getting at
the problem without being We were just like, let's solve this.

Speaker 1 (01:37:31):
And we both are self aware enough to know that
we have fucking issues. Yeah, that make us hard, both
of us hard. I know makes me a hard person
to deal with. Same here, And I am aware of
that and totally okay with that, and I want nothing
more than to be a better person yeah and improve myself.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
So instead of it feeling like, oh, we had to
go to therapy, it felt like, now we're going to
do this really smart thing, so like hand in hand
to help to make sure that we don't wreck, because
my thing is just like, there's been so many things
where I've just been like fuck and walked away because
it was too I couldn't communicate with the person, it
was too hard, it was too infuriating.

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
And I've done it. I've done it and I haven't
walked away, and I have serious issues from that and
I don't want to go through that again. I'm older
and wiser, and the thing that I really love about
both of us is that I could well and I
could say, and you could say we should go to therapy,
and it wasn't an insult, and it wasn't cutting you
down or cutting me down. It was just And it's

(01:38:27):
the same thing with couples. It's a couple's relationship with
therapy exactly. It's like, let's do this before it gets
fucking horrible and we have to backtrack for years.

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
Because it's just such a fascinating thing. First of all,
I'm deeply in love with our therapist. Got it's amazing.
It was like a soap opera star came to be
our therapist, like he's beautiful, and then he would just go.
Like we'd start talking and I could hear us telling
the story the way we told it to each other,
the way like here's how this story goes, and he go,

(01:38:57):
I'm gonna stop you first. Yeah, And then instead of
talking about the plot line, yeah, we would have to
talk about the feelings that the actions brought up, which
is what I hate and what I always get called
on in therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
The actions don't matter exactly right, it's what you were
feeling when you are doing them and what it brings
out in he's making you share yours, but what so
you are understanding your feelings, but what are you surely
doing is in making you explain them to me and
me explaining them to you, which totally helps.

Speaker 2 (01:39:23):
So there was like genuine revelations where I was like,
oh shit, Like we would have never talked about this
while we were having a fight about this other thing
where it's like I just appreciate it if you do
this thing or whatever, and instead what we're just doing
we're learning our backstories so that we can go, oh,
this is that thing she does, and so.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
The next time we get if I do this thing,
this is why she's responding to me. This way. And
you know what I love and I hate when they
do this is well, if you start telling them you're feeling,
tell her like you're supposed to turn to me and
tell me your and I'm like, I don't want to.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
He didn't make us do that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:54):
No, he didn't, which I appreciate. I'm sure he will eventually,
but I think he knows right now it's too hard
to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
Well, I'll because we kind of were that's all.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
I guess the part I loved is you are such
a good partner in that way, where like when we
were talking about this stuff, at no point was there
any shutdown, was there any It was just like we
started to be like, well, this is the this is
what you know I'm worried about, or this is whatever,
like this is a bad pattern we're in, and we
both brought it together and.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
Both of us were like, oh, yeah, I can understand that. Yeah,
because we've both been in therapy for so long. There's
no like both and I've been in couples therapy, Like
I understand how it's supposed to work, right, which is great,
And there's no reason for you like that's not true
because that's and he said at the end of which
we should tell people this, which this fucking changed my
thought process so much. I mean too, I'm going to

(01:40:42):
say it wrong, you say it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
He said, we can stop thinking about these things in
terms of true, right or wrong, and start thinking of
them in terms of true for Georgia, true for car Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
So what you think is right is just your truth,
and it doesn't mean you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
Or wrong, or that we can just practice moving there
was for you. It sounds so like it's not like
we were having these huge problems. It's like we would
get we would everything would be great, and then we'd
try to discuss one area. Yeah, and so we were like,
let's fix the area before the area becomes spreads to
the rest of everything else we're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
It's like getting a bikini waxe, preemptive bikini wax before
it gets down to your knees, or you have to
go to the pool the next day and you're like,
why didn't I get a bikini wax. So you try
to do it yourself and your legs are red, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:41:29):
And grown hairs all over the place. Now you've got
to get some Russian lady to do it for you.
Oh yeah, at Burke Williams. Yeah, guys, guys, that was
an overshare for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
No way, there's no such thing.

Speaker 2 (01:41:41):
All right, well, thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (01:41:45):
The overshare was the bikini wax or the therapy.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
And just I don't know, no, no, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
Wait, I think the bikini wax was an overshare. Oh okay,
but not the I thought it was a good metaphor.
I think so, I think you.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
Okay, we're back, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
So the original, as we spoke about earlier, the original
title of this episode was put It in a Door.
So for naming it today, what should we call it?

Speaker 1 (01:42:11):
We would maybe call it second hand tips, which is
what we started getting for this podcast, which I appreciate.
And then it can also be called my favorite making
it about me moment.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
Yeah, that's what we do.

Speaker 3 (01:42:28):
That's what we do here at My Favorite Murders.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
It's what we do. I think it's what everybody does.
What's so relatable about us?

Speaker 3 (01:42:33):
Totally speaking of us, let's let us say goodbye in
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (01:42:39):
Thanks for listening to Rewind. Thank you guys for listening.
You're all fucking sweet baby angels.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
Thanks for your support all of it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
Stay sexy, and don't get murdered. Elvis, you want to cookie? Okay,
bye bye, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
I think I had some in here.

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 71: Put It In A Door

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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