Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 73: Chill Satanist - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows for you with
all new commentary, updates and insights, and you're welcome to listen.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Today we're recapping episode seventy three, which we named Chill Satanist.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Be sure it came out on June fifteenth, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
All right, let's listen to the intro of episode seventy three.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murderer.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
That's Karen Kilgarat and that's Georgia heartstart and we are here.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
And we are phony.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
This is how we do the podcast from now on.
I hope you like it.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
We were told by podcast consultants that we should act
like this at the beginning of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
If you're new to this podcast, you can off curse anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Oh that's right. You can f write a the A.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
You can go to h E double hockey sticks.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
And also email us, because that's you're supposed to get that.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
This social media aspect going right. We're at Twitter, and
we're at and we're at we're both on bumble even
though George is married.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
What's another one that's good?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I actually wait, you might have to cut this out, Stephen,
because I'll say her name.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
To you, but I don't know it.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
No, it's Lizzie and I were talking about bumble. We
were just talking about dating in general, what a nightmare
it is in LA and all that stuff. And in
the conversation of her trying to get me to join
a dating app.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I convinced her to rejoin Tinder. What it was the
hilarious turn.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
It was like she was trying to convince me, and
as she was convincing me, I'm like, well, then why
don't you do it?

Speaker 3 (01:59):
And then she's like, I don't know. I just I
don't know. You know what, You're right, I should sign up? Good?
It was hilarious. You're good.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
You're just like, I'm gonna turn this motherfucker. Are you
going to sign up for any of them? No, you're
gonna meet someone at a fucking gas station pumping gas.
You're gonna be like, yes.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Why I keep hanging out at gas station?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
You gotta get a nice car.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
The problem is that I my arms are always crossed
when I'm getting gas, So I put out negative.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
You're you're more interesting. You don't want superficial shit.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Thank you. Also, I just don't. I don't.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
I wouldn't know how to pick people based on their
picture because I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
I'm good at I'm I'll take friends uh phones and
be like yes, yes, or like read their thing. I
don't know, because it doesn't matter to me. There's no
fucking stakes in my game. I don't get a ship.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
I was actually doing it for Lizzie for a little while,
but it's that thing where then you start seeing what
other people's tastes are, which is really funny, where I'm like, oh,
I would have said yes to that.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Lizzie's like, oh.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
No, yeah. This is a murder podcast by the guys.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
This is called Karen's Diary. That's how we start.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
This is called.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
This is called did you hear this interesting true crime
based piece of news which lots of people tweeted to
me on Twitter. There's a woman named Agnes Gund who
is basically a crazy rich philanthropist. She sold a Liechtenstein
worth one hundred and sixty five million dollars Jesus and

(03:28):
donated all of the money to criminal justice reform, specifically
with the eye to reduce mass incarceration.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
In this country. Oh my god, and a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Sent it to us on Twitter saying there are some
good millionaires out there, and also like some finally some
positive news that's great, which I thought was very cool.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
I just found a friend of mine, a friend like
someone she knows is going a dad. He's like sober,
but years in year, years ago, he well, he's going
to prison for eight years for having some pot on
him now in Florida, though, Oh yeah shit, which is
just like so heartbreaking. His whole family is not going

(04:14):
to have his income, His kids are going to grow
up without him. Whatever he could do to be a
productive member of society as fucked. Like, it just doesn't
make any fucking sense to me.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
It's so crazy. That's some old leftover. Those laws are
now seeming like blue laws. They're just so old and
like blue law. Blue laws are like those laws that
were in I don't know if they were specifically New England,
but it was like it's like you can't you can't
drink on a Sunday Passcounty, right, all that old shit.

(04:43):
That's like they're just still on the books because no one.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Took them off.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
You can't spit because of the nineteen nineteen Spanish flu
but would walk in it and track it into their
house exactly right, But I mean it should still be illegal.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah that would be nice.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah. Hey, okay, so okay, we were going to talk
about Mommy dudn dearest finally because we've been promising it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Wait, do you have any other short pieces of business
before we get into that.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Discussion business business?

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Oh, the video of CAYLEB Brown when she was discovered
on Todd Kleop's.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
You know farm or whatever.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Remember when a couple of months ago there was that
they found this woman chained up in a storage container, right, yeah,
they showed that. Someone was like they have video of
them opening it getting to her, And I was like,
I can't watch this because I pictured her like screamed
like I pictured the end of Texast Chansaw massacre. Yeah,

(05:41):
or she's screaming insane yep. And it was nothing like that,
and it was almost worse.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I went to watch it.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
I was I was going to watch it with the
sound off because I knew that part would be bad.
And the first shot is she's fully dressed, She's got
a chain around her neck, right, Yeah, there's a collar
around her.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Deck and then a change, She's laying on a mattress,
shitty mattress, but it.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Looked so weird. She looked like she was kind of frozen,
like she was so scared.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
And how long she'd been in there? Four months? Uh,
I'm not sure Anne had seen before she went and
her boyfriend shot shot and kitscha death.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, and had probably been attacked repeatedly.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah. And the second it started, I was like, no,
I'm not watching this. I just what for.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Like, I'm glad she's rescued, that's great. I want her
to get better. I want her to be strong, all
positive vibes. I don't need to watch that moment of horror.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I felt bad, but I but I did watch. I
felt bad watching it, but I watched it. I think
what was so interesting to me is how calm she was.
And it kind of hit home of that thing of
everyone always saying you don't know what you're going to
be like, and uh, what is it?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
A situation?

Speaker 1 (06:55):
A crisis? So they're like whenever someone gets killed, and
they like, he acted like so calm, and it's like,
you don't ever know what it's going to be like
for someone, And this was like the perfect or like
a traumatic event. This is a perfect example of that
to me. And she was like immediately like, I've been
locked up in here by Todd Colehepp for this many months.
He shot and killed my boyfriend. Like she was just like,

(07:17):
here's the information in case I can't give it to
you later. Yes, it was, Yeah, it was amazing.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
I also think I read in an article that the
cops said to her, uh like something like where's your
buddy or do you know where your buddy is? Which
is her boyfriend I was murdered, which I just hated that.
I don't know why and maybe the phrasing sounded differently,
and I don't I'm just judging the written word, but
I just hated that.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
It's like, she's not a child, it's not her buddy, it's.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Not a buddy system yeah over here.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
But it's probably just him trying to be like, yeah,
I'm your friend, disconcing, Okay, yeah, like low key, I
like to be judging.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Oh, let's see, before we into that, I wanted to
I wanted to plug the animating podcasts Twitter, which I
think is a new Twitter because it's not a lot
of followers yet. Yes, that they I just they go
to animating podcasts on Twitter. There's one of our podcasts,
short little clip that just brought me so much joy

(08:21):
and happiness. It's so hilarious, so hilarious. It's amazingly done.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
First, especially as fast as we talk and as like
talking over like kind of overlapped.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, where that could not have been easy even.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Like they had my I went, mmmm, yes, I just
made a noise and it was this perfect It's just
this hilarious cartoon. Steven's in it, nar walls are in it.
Spoiler alert. It's just like they took a clip from
our podcast of us speaking and made it animated.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
It was very exciting.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
It's it was a real honor, but it was also
just like kind of cool, so talented, and also I
liked that they it started meet talking to you and
pointing at you, which is so mean, like they know,
I don't know, and it looked just like us it
did and Steven, oh my god, when it panned over
to Steven, like I laughed out loud that for it.

(09:11):
It was such a great job. So great job the
animating podcast. They do it for other podcasts. Go on
to their feed. Fucking best it's very cool, and thank
you guys for picking us.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yes, Steven had a kitten named after him.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Congratulations.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I think I cried a little bit.

Speaker 4 (09:29):
They found him in the backyard, right, I couldn't think
of a higher yeah, they Yeah, I couldn't think of
like a I don't know, like huge compliment. Yeah, I
mean it's just I don't know. Yeah, it just means
a lot. It's really cool.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
So the kitten's name is Stephen Ray Morris.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Kitten's name is kitten Kitty Raymore. But they're calling it Morris,
which I just think is so perfect.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
It's very cute, Kitty Raymore.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
It's just so cute. It's a little tiny and.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
It's a little baby color.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
It's like Tappy, not you Elvis. It's like a tappy,
like a striped like brown and gray. Oh, it looks
like my cat growing up.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
So that's awesome. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, congratulations. That means we don't have to pay you
this month, right, yep, because the cat. That's right, right,
You've got cat payments.

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah, going towards the cat.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
It's going towards the cat. My MoMA, okay, mo me
dead and man.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
People have been asking and asking for us to please
talk about it.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
And today on.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
On my uh car ride over, somebody I checked my
Twitter and somebody was like, are you guys ever going
to talk about it? And in all caps, oh no,
they said, have you guys? So I bet they were
asking a very polite way of like, did I miss it?
Have you guys talked about this yet? And just in
all caps, I wrote, not yet, Let's.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Never talk about it, Let's bring it up every time,
Let's move on right now and just never, We'll bring
it up every episode.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
So rude, it's time. It's finally time, It's here. It
is mommy dead and dearras.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
It was good.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
I moved on. I finally, I finally watched it.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
I was the I was the one hanging us up
because I didn't watch it for so long and I
us watched it like three hours ago. Really yeah, nice,
I caught up. It's I loved it.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
It's so good.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
It was amazing And it's funny because I thought after watching,
since I watched The Keepers first, I was like, well,
that's like a Netflix series. It's this you know, eight
part thing and whatever. I thought it was really well done.
And also I am now so fascinated with gypsy. I do,

(11:31):
It's like I don't. When they were talking about the
fact that she was raised by this con woman manipulator
and so that's all she knows.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (11:40):
So like her kind of top Like I already am
not the hugest fan of the baby voice and that
kind of like the giggly baby wish which she was
forced to like her mother forced her to have that personality.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
I'm not definitely ann you'll vouch for this.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Not a psychologist, okay, but wait, are you a psychiatrist though?

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yeah, you want some pills? Yeah, adderall all around. But
I heard, you know from someone a long time ago
that when when older adults women have that baby voice,
it's because they experienced trauma as a kid and never
got past it. Yeah, so they sound the same as
they did back then. Right, that sounds cool? Right, Yes,
let's say to say it's real. Well, I've heard the

(12:20):
same thing, okay, yeah good? Uh yeah, man, she's being
interviewed from prison. Yeah, it's just crazy. I can't imagine
what her inner life is like.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
And I wanted to be mad at that dad so bad.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
But like the dad and a stepmom. But you like
you're only.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
Seeing it through.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
I feel like if the mom was still alive and
she was putting in her two cents, you'd be like,
oh yeah, I would.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Have moved seven states away. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
Even the little clips that they had of her were frightening. Yeah,
like she is a frighten a creepy woman.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
But like, okay, the dad, while hot, wasn't very smart,
so I feel like he was just manipulated and con
too clearly for sure, even though his her parents were like,
yeah we had like they were conned.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Well, and also when it's that you know that she
is either she has some personality disorder I want, I want,
even though all I want to do is say which
one it is.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
I won't.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Well, well, I mean, if you have munch houses by proxy,
which means you're willing to hurt your child to get
attentions your heart righting, dinging.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
All, that's the one I know. But also maybe even
maybe even a psychopath. Yeah, somebody tweeted and said psychopaths
can't feel anxiety, which would by suck.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Was so cool, Yes, because so they never get nervous,
so no matter what they do, or who they're lying
to or what they're doing They will never have that,
like you'll never see the twitch in their eye of
like ooh.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Or then like burst out into rape, like because anxiety
is nervousness. Yeah, and uh, an anticipation of a situation
or anticipation of something happening. Yeah, so thank god, I'm
clearly not a fucking associate.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Psychopaths?

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yes, we know you're at least we know you're not
a psycho.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
I'm clearly clearly based on my pharmaceutical history. Uh, clearly
on a psychopath.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
But I mean, yeah, the idea because that like going
through because I kept going when they would say and
then she had this surgery, It's.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Like, how the fuck did it get to the point
where she's having surgery?

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Dude? Those doctors, yeah, those I mean, I don'tant. I
know that they've moved around a lot of doctors once
they got suspicious of it, and she's so manipulated and
they wanted to believe her. Why would you not believe
a sick child? But I feel like the first I
feel like always in a in a pediatrician's mind should
be this could possibly be. It has to be there.

(15:01):
Everyone knows what it is.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
But she's inducing with medicine. Right, So she's like, oh,
she has this thing, then she's giving her medicine that's
giving her the reaction that's making Clearly this woman is
smart and knows a little bit about medicine in some way.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
I mean, when they open the medicine cabinet. Oh no,
the medicine closet, closet.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Also the pictures around the house, from around the house
where there's just like brand new Disney slippers everywhere where.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
It's like Disney thing was creepy as fun.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Everything's pink and Disney and creepy. And so she's kind
of a hoarder. She's kind of like this, like put
on these slippers. It's just yeah, it's the creepiest.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
And then did you see there was a girl on
Twitter who was who like tagged us and was like,
I just realized that I have a photo of them
with them. It's one of the it's a girl who
listens she like worked for Ronald McDonald house or something.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Oh, that's right, And she's in a.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Photo like a photo op with them, yes, smiling, Yes, honey,
you win, you won.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
And also she thinks she has her arm around an
eight year old and the girl's fucking eighteen.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
That's that part of it. Also, because Gypsy's eyes are
like a little close together and a little crossed, and
her teeth like stuck straight out, which I'm sure is
from being poisoned.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Dollar they said, like the leukemia medication.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
So she kind of has the look about her where
it's like something could be wrong. And then what mother
brings her baby in and is like, you know, oh,
Stephen has it.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
What's her name, let's give her a.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Briann is the one who sent us the picture, and Brian,
it's amazing. Also when you look at this mother, you
look at a person who used to it. Like in
the beginning when they have her the pageant, she was like,
remember she was miss Miss Favor Queen or something that
was weird to me too, where.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's like she clearly gave a big shit about the
way she looks. Yes, and it's almost like she had
this other project now and so she kind of let
it go.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes, she was living vicariously through her daughter's illness, so
she was she was elicited that exact like she wanted
pity sympathy, she wanted like an emotional connection, but she
didn't believe she could have it the way.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
She looked on her own Merit.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
The other show that I want to talk about. I
don't know if you've watched it, but I randomly watched it,
and you have to and everyone has, especially if you're
into fucking sociopaths, which who isn't the Bernie made Off
Oh entry with fucking Robert de Niro's Bernie made Off Gore.
It is so good. Oh, Okay, I know I'm obsessed
with the Bernie made Off case anyways, and I know

(17:31):
it's not murder and all this shit. But he's a sociopath, yes,
and so it's really interesting the way they kind of
show it's just such a tragic story.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
He might even be a psychopath too.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, and yeah, it's so good. Oh and then it's
what's her beautiful face as the wife? Uh, what's her name?
Michelle Pfiffer.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Oh, yeah, she's great.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Oh my god, it's it's really fucking good. Everyone. Oh cool,
it's really fucking good. Cool, And that's it for me.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
That's it for me.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Let's get out of here. But bye, okay, we are back.
How's that dating app ban going for you? Karen?

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I mean, listen, the dating app ban, which is essentially
like be a workaholic your whole life and then just
see who you can meet through front at the gas station.
It's not ideal. I'm trying to work on it, but
it's not ideal. Just in my own defense. LA was
recently ranked second worst among large US cities for dating,

(18:37):
citing high divorce rates, low marriage likelihood, and low quote
unquote quality of life metrics for singles. This is, according
to Time Out Worldwide. The number one city on that
list New York City.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
New York.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
See, I mean, LA doesn't seem fucking cool at all,
But to be fair, it's where I'd met literally all
my adult boyfriends, so I can't complain. But New York
seems fucking horrible.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Horrible, I mean because at least you don't even have
the fun kind of like, you know, the schmoozy Here
in Los Angeles. People are phony, sure, yeah, but at
least they're good at being phony, Like they'll compliment you.
You won't see it coming, it'll be a good time,
as had by all New York. It seems like it's
a bunch of finance bro types that are like yelling

(19:23):
at women in the streets.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Right, something that like want a wife and kids. They
don't want, like, you know, you to be interesting. Also
the other thing too that I'm thinking about is like
you can be like here in LA you can go like,
let's go for a hike date. That's like a thing
which I never do, but it's free. In New York,
you have to go for a fucking thirty six dollars
cocktail every fucking time you want to get on date, right,

(19:46):
Like it's right maybe cheap, there's no hiking.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Or if a guy says, like, let's walk around you
know yeah I almost said public Park, Central Park. Yeah,
you'd be like, no, creepy, yeah, Like I mean, how
do you I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
What's your perfect first date? Like if you have it,
like you're going to meet someone you don't know, like
you might like them, you might not like them. It's
not even like someone you love.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Like how about just to walk through home goods ooh,
and then like there's some yes, right, someone needs a spatula.
It goes on for what thirty minutes and then you're like, okay,
thanks so much and we can just like process this
and see if idan work.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
A great you get a ramp average like a you know,
coffee or whatever. You walk through home goods and if
they're able to like make fun of things the way
you're supposed to do in home goods and then pick
up a thing that they need, like a spatula, you
fucking marry that person.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think you would learn a lot about watching someone's
shop at home goods, because like, are you the kind
of person that skips the food asal or you like
me the kind of person's like, surely I don't want
any of this weird colored pasta, But what if there
is a hazelnut candy.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I've never heard of these hard candies that taste like violets,
Like what's happening?

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I've never had candy from Finland? Maybe I should give
it a whirl. I mean, I don't know things like that.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
Karen.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
That's honestly like fucking brilliant.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
There needs to be like have I done it?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
You did? Like there needs to be a home goods
date night where they close to anyone but people on dates.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
And it's almost like you also have to if you're
going to be there, you have to need something, right, So.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
I got to pick up nine hundred clip chips whatever.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yes, exactly, So I need magnets for my refrigerator. I
can only get them here.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
And like what if on date night they turn the
lights down a little bit so it's like a little
more flattering.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Play a little Neil sadaka, I think you did it.
I think I've done it, And Home Goods email me.
Let's get this thing going.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Home Goods date night. That's fucking also.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Because just as an older person, it's like all the
conversations around dating are truly for the twenty and thirty
year olds, granted and God bless. Yeah, when you're older,
it's like I think there's a part of me where
it's like it's not the pressing fear that I used
to have because I really have built this life that
I am really enjoying and really kind of like thrilled by.

(22:04):
I genuinely all my dreams have come true and do
come true all the time, So it don't have that
big empty space type of feeling.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Right, there's not a rush to have a baby or
to like buy a home or anything like that anymore
for you.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah, it's more like, oh, this is neat, what's happening?
Who's going to be here? Like it's just kind of
that feeling. So then going out of my way to
like drink coffee with a stranger and make small talk
is truly my worst nightmare to begin with.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
And psychologically, walking side by side makes you talk more
and makes you more open than when you're sitting across
from someone just talking. It's why you have the best
conversations when you're in a car.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
That's why do you need to ride works Truly, we
get people to say anything.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
That's right back there. Oh my god, I'm obsessed.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
It's true, It's really true.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's crazy that this was just happening too. So going
back to the podcast that Todd cole he fucking case
was just breaking at the time.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
That was breaking and very disturbing breaking, like how everyone
found out about it is just so upsetting. And yeah,
and then we finally covered that.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
So maybe let's give an update really quick. So Todd
Coleheath is now serving seven consecutive life sentences without the
possibility of parole.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yes, he's also currently under investigation for possibly profiting from
those crimes, after prison messages surface showing that he was
planning merchandise sales and discussing book or documentary deal.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
As the Fox.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
So as a result of those messages, the South Carolina
Department of Corrections moved him to its most secure housing unit,
removed his tablet privileges indefinitely, and is pursuing disciplinary charges.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Also, the Inspector General's Office is reviewing whether new criminal
charges should be filed against him for attempts to monetize
his notoriety. I mean, that's an amazing leap forward that
I don't think was Like we've talked about that a lot,
you know, For all the mistakes we've made on this podcast,
I feel like this, this is one area we've been
pretty solid in, which is serial killers are not the celebrities.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
They're not the stars.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
They're not who anyone should be focusing on, certainly not
the people that should be given deals or any of
that kind of shit. It's like, if you want to
hear from those people, read any of the other books
that were written by people that are also psychotic or whatever, right.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Or then watch the documentary where they interview the victims'
families and what they went through, not the guy and
what he put them through. Nobody fucking wants to hear.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
That, right, And I'm It's interesting because it's like that
reminds me of after watching The Tinder Swindler, who I
think just went to jail, but there was a person
like that was one of the breaking stories back when
the news cycle involved things like that, where there was
a manager who reached out to him to get him
set up for like he could so he could have

(24:49):
writ like a you know, a Bravo show the Tinder
Swindler hosts whatever. And of course everyone was like, no,
go fuck yourself, like this is disgusting when you're.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
The manager going after the swindler or the murderer or
the whatever, Like it's time to join the Peace Corps,
Like it's time to drop out of society and go
help people because you've just gotten on the wrong track
at that point, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Right, you're just trying to make something out of anything
that does numbers. And it's like, nah, it's a little
harder than that.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
You I think you have to do it. It's you
have to do it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Better than that life in general, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Being a human being.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Right, So I actually did covers if you want to
hear the whole story of Todd Coleheb and his Horrible Crimes.
It's episode four fifty eight. The episode is called The
Demands Are Incredible.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
And it's crazy because I don't think we knew at
the time how this case would unfold because he is
then tied to other cases, which is just chilling. Yeah, definitely,
that's what that was a great You did a great
job on that one.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
All right? Oh god, this case that I covered and
this one is just chilling.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yeah, this is a bad one. And well, let's just
get into it.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
It's time to listen to Georgia tell her story about
the Fall River cult murder.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Okay, oh yeah, who goes? Should we should we talk
about murder?

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Let's do it, okay me Stevens? You all right? Okayaren?
Yes you love cults?

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh? Yes?

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yes? Or no?

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Should I lean all the way back and stick my
feet up in there and just listen up?

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Because this is my favorite topic.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
A comfy girl. Actually, I found Ny Night Karen Karen
Leaping found what There was one cult that I wanted
to do and then I don't know why I never
did it, but then I was just like, what are
other Because I'm not a big cult I mean, I
love Jamestown obviously. Jonestown Jamestown. Clearly, I'm a big fan.

(26:47):
I love James Jamestown. Jamestown. That's actually like a really
nice little like retreat. It's a camp for children with issues.
I believe Jamestown is like the first settlement and the Colonies.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
But I definitely could be wrong because I can't remember
high school at all, so I wasn't in no way
laughing at you.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
For that part.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
But I do love I love the old joke of
I'm a huge fan of this and then say the
different that's you always go with them?

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Can you do it on purpose?

Speaker 1 (27:20):
I love it. Listen when I get shit wrong. I
think it's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Jonestown is I love it too, obviously because it came
out of San Francisco. It's like when it can be
I mean, that's as a hometown.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
It's just so epic.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Just the amount of people who actually killed themselves is epic.
Like I look up Heaven's Gate, which I thought was
really fascinating. That's a good one. It's just fucking cool.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Heaven's Gate is so crazy too, because it's so sinister
and yet dull. That's the weirdest part about It's like
we think we're going to go to a planet or
a spaceship or whatever. We like computers and we want
to be androgynosts, and then we kill ourselves the end.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
There's no blood, there's no.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I think they killed some people Heaven's Gate. Yeah, who
like left the thing? Oh yeah, yeah, I'll have to
do it sometimes. I really want to do Waco because
I think it's way more complicated. I just I kind
of don't want to touch it because it's I think
it's pretty fucking inflammatory.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, literally, like, oh that was no, it is.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
You're right, because I think the story everybody got initially
it was like these lunatics and.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
They was a place on fire, and it's like, I
don't think there was Yeah there was children in there.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah, children in there.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
You weren't letting them come out.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, there's a lot to it.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Okay, anyhow, this is the Fall Rivers cult murder. Who
had never heard.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Of it, never heard of it?

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Okay, an hour outside of Boston, the town of Fall Rivers, Massachusetts,
got that one right. In the nineteen seventies. There was
a crazy fucking recession. They had the gas shortage. She
had to wait in line, and what was it you
can only get gas on certain days depending on when
your license plate.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Ended and whatever it was.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
So it was like odd days Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I
mean odd numbers, Monday, whatever. I remember waiting in line
with my dad at the I believe it is now
a shell on Pedula Boulevard.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
It was South gas and go or something. It was
a something good.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
I can't I can't remember what it was, but it
was like we were out in this like out in
the different.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Street waiting to get into.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
The gas station. Done that at Costco before, but not Yeah,
think of that. But everyone's broken out of a job. Yes, yes,
pre Costco.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
There's the idea of even buying wholesale was like inane.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, everyone was broke.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
So nineteen seventies, Uh, Fall River Rivers is hit super
fucking hard. Factories closed, buildings, abandoned, all that stuff. So
like Main Street is empty, which just led to a
crazy CD underground of drugs and sex working to flourish. Yeah,
so the first victim of the Fall River murders. Can

(30:09):
you can you look up if it's Fall River or
Fall Rivers. There's there's no s it's Fall River. Okay,
So everyone calmed down. Got this right because I've written
it both ways. The first victim of the Fall River
murders is say Fall Rivers or Falls River. Sorry, sorry, fuck,

(30:30):
you know what I'm gonna say both ways, Falls Rivers murders.
It gets sad now, so let's okay.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
Sorry, be cool.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Seventeen year old runaway Duren Levec. She had escaped her
new Bedford foster home and she got out of there
and went to Fall River and turned to sex work
to survive.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Seventeen years old. Oh Jesus, and like, so fucking every
story here about foster homes. Obviously there are good foster
parents out.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
There and all blood a blah, but man, oh man,
Like I have a friend who grew up in several
foster homes, and it's just like one horrible story after
the other.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
It's just the thing. I'm like, Well, can you imagine
if working on the street in sex work is the
better alternative than living with your foster family. Yeah, that's
like that you can imagine with them must be like horrible.
Not that there aren't great foster parents out there. In fact,
I want to be one one day, but not in
the seventies. There wasn't okay, she was. So her body

(31:30):
is found on October thirteenth, nineteen seventy nine, under the
bleachers at the local high school. Yeah. Her wrists had
been bound with fishing line and she had been stabbed
in the head several times and her face what had
been beaten so bad that she was unrecognizable. Then, a
month after she had been found, a man named Andy

(31:54):
Maltius goes to the Fall River police station. He wants
to file a missing person's report for his girlfriend. Uh huh, they.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
Won't do it.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Ah fucking there's a twist, Okay, a twenty two year
old sex worker. That's who she is, Barbara Riposa. He
tells her that he's scared for her safety, and then
he starts to randomly mumble something about a satanic cult,
and he says he has information relating to the other
murder of Dreen Levec whoa. Yeah. So he is a

(32:28):
very mentally unstable creep. He's a pedophile, a sex sadist,
and a violent rapist. And when he's questioned by the police,
he told them that there was a satanic cult operating
within the Fall River area and the sex worker community.
So the whole community of drug addicts and sex workers.
Jesus Christ are fucking Satanists. And this is during the

(32:49):
Satanic panic, remember that, Yeah, which is like the stupidest thing.
But then there were Satanists.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Who also it's a violent rapist reporting like, yeah, how
bad does it have to be?

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Once again, that's just.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Crazy where it's like I'm I'm the worst person and
I'm going to go to the police because this is
this bad.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
I'm so worried about my girlfriend. Oh and yeah, so okay.
Then Karen Marston, she's a twenty year old single mother.
She's a drug addict, teenage runaway. It was a teenage runaway.
She's also working as a sex worker. She comes forward
because she's afraid for her life. She tells the police
that the local pimp, Carl Drew, was the ringleader of

(33:32):
this Satanic cult and that he was responsible for the murders.
The murder excuse me. She felt that she knew too
much and was too inside the close knit circle of
the Satanic group to remain safe. So she's fucking terrified.
The police offer her protective custody for her cooperation, but
she denied it. She didn't want it. Uh, oh, who

(33:54):
knows why. I mean, I'm sure she doesn't trust the cops,
and she's a drug addict. You don't make the best
fucking decisions when you're on drugs.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
And also if you're trying to do drugs, you don't
want to cop around him, right, protecting you?

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Right, You're like, I just need to get high.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So Drew, let's talk about Carl Drew,
the woman the man she fingered for the murder. Listen, look, listen,
you guys said it. I didn't. You guys are.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Gross Steven, play back that tape.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
This is a murder podcast, please, I know it all right.
Carl Drew twenty five years old. He's from New Hampshire.
He'd been raised on a small farm, and the story
is that he had a childhood of hard labor and
physical abuse. He told a story later of his alcoholic
father tying a rope around his ankles and lowering him
down a well to remove a cluster of dead rats.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Oh no, why face to face with that shit, and
also fucking leave him there in the well.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Theylla just what's it called? One things? That's great?

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, totally leave him in the well. How about you
pour some goddamn battery acid down that.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Well, and your kid.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Well. In addition, he lived on the farm, so he
was taught to butcher livestock, and he got the job
of cleaning the farm's slaughter pit. Again, send that kid
in there, Yan. He had a way through rotting carcasses
in order to separate the hides and hoofs for rendering,
which you know, all of that just smelled so horrific.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
I mean, and you would smell like that for days days.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
Well, this is this is like if I were gone
with Paltrow and I was like, it was hard for
me too. I made bone broth recently, Stephen cut that out. Well,
you have to you have to boil the marrow bones
for like forty eight hours, and it just gets the
smell that is so horrific and not good.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Yeah did that smell like linger? Oh yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
So then when I ever, like, I can't drink it
now because it's so disgusting, everybody else make your Yeah,
you buy it. I know it's expensive, Gwyneth Paltrow, but
you guys, look at the gut issues, dumb bro it's
really good for you. Anyways, But where was I at fourteen,
he runs away to the Fall River. He eventually becomes

(36:15):
a pimp, and he's a Satanist, and he uses Satanism
to terrify the sex workers who worked for him. Yeah,
he had a felony record, convictions for assault, weapons possession,
and armed robbery. So he's a real great dude. He
claims later to be the son of Satan. Okay, it's like,
who knows?

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Did he? Did Satan have kids?

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Oh? I wonder? Yeah I do too, Like did they change?
Did Satan change diapers?

Speaker 3 (36:42):
I mean that he wasn't a good father.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Was like she the wife woke up and he's like,
it's your.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Durn, it's your dune. And he's like no, yeah, I'm
Satan fucking Satan. Yeah I have to do it again. Yeah,
uh the son of Satan. Yeah, okay, come on, yeah,
I mean most people claim to be Satan, right, isn't
that more of the thing? Yeah, okay, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah. He makes the sex workers participate in his animal
sacrifices and tells them that the same thing would happen
to them if they disobeyed him. So he wasn't one
of those nice pimps that ever. Rooman talks or nice
Satanists or nice Satanists. There are nice ones.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
I mean you seem Satanists. That's fine, I mean whatever. Yeah,
they're chilled out.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah. Uh.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
It seems just like a tool to control people. It's
just a using fear, like this is the thing you're
scared of. I'll use this symbol, yeah, and it'll control
your behavior.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
And I'm on all the math, all the fucking like
Fall River math, which is probably not No, that's the
good stuff. Yeah, no offense to them. But so the
Fall River Cult they had like maybe up to ten members.
They're all associated with the Fall River sex trade. So
between nineteen seventy in nineteen eighty they held a bunch

(38:02):
of ceremonies deep in the local woods, which sounds creepy.
And during the sciences, this guy, Carl Drew would speak
in different a different voice and in different languages, and
everyone who had been there was like, no, he it
wasn't gibberish. He was speaking another language, wow, which was
like all right, Umm.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Did he know Spanish? Yeah? Had he gotten the Rosetta Stone?
Was CD?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
I know pig Latin. That doesn't mean I'm speaking in
another language. And we you and I speak in a
different voice whenever we do fucking ads.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
That's right, so you can do lots of voices.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I'm not in coloring, not impressed with this.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Carl, Carl, Carl, your fucking nerd Carl. He's still alive,
so lips Steven, edit that up for sure.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Don't edit this whole story out. I forgot to mention
he's still alive. Okay. First the ritual's rituals involved sex
and drugs, but then things took a turn when he
was like human sacrifice time. Oh no, no, okay. The
second victim is Barbara Raposa, who's twenty two, another known
sex worker. Her body's discovered. But oh, here's horrible. A

(39:09):
man is out walking his dog in the forest. It's
a beagle, picture it, Yes, His dog starts sniffing around
and like starts to kind of chomp on something.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
And he thinks it's just an animal because she was
so unrecognizable that he didn't realize it was a human.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Was the full body or just a part?

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I think it was a full body, Oh man, but
in the bushes, you know what I mean? Yes, So
that poor dog and that poor man. Do you think
that dog. He ever let the dog come on the
face again.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
I think he probably put that dog down.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah, once they get a taste.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's so dark, I know, But it really is not
to be hacky and say the same thing we say
all the time. But it's like, what I understand, there's
a benefit of going into the forest if you have
a large group and you're there to really hike it
up and be a team or whatever.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Walking alone with.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Your dog in the forest, I feel like there's only
a couple things that can happen to you, and they're bad.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Like your dog doesn't care if it's in the forest
or a sidewalk of a fucking suburb, right, Why, it's
like not that your dog is more stoked when he
goes into the Why are you?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
And then at the same time, I have to be
totally honest and say, I am jealous of that guy
because because he gets to do that, because it just
that moment must must have been horrifying, and like just
it's just a seminal moment.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
It's a watershed moment.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I wonder. I wonder, I don't ever want to know.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
I wonder. Here's what I wonder.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Are seminal and watershed synonyms or did I just say
two different things.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Seminal is like yeah, no, but they're yeah, they're like right,
you just said it in better words than defining.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Sometimes I just pick a word out and say it's
whatever my brain off.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Sounded like the saurus Jesus, I can't say that the saurus.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Thank you, you're welcome.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Um. Okay, she had been so Barbara Riposa, she's been
badly Okay, she's got her hands bound, she's face down,
she's on a flat stone that resembles an altar. She
had been so badly beaten again that her skull was crushed.
There were stab wounds to her head again. And yeah.

(41:25):
So then on February nineteen eighty, the cult's third victim
was killed. This is twenty two year old who you
may remember, her name, Karen Marston. Oh, no, woman who
had gone in because she was afraid.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
So, oh no, I'm sorry. I'd immediately assumed it was
the missing woman. But this is the one who fucking
showed up herself.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, the one who went in. She's this twenty year
old single mother drug addict, and she feared for her life.
She's the one who came in and said no, thank
you to victim's protection. So she is, uh, she's the
one who comes forward. So she had been present, it
turns out at that first murder of Doreen Levek, So

(42:08):
she had been there. So that's how she was why
she was afraid. Yeah, and it terrified her so much
that that's why she went to the police and Carl uh
what's his last name Drew found out about it. Yeah,
So her head was beaten in with a rock. Then,
according to the story, Drew then broke her neck with

(42:32):
his bare hands. And according to someone else who had
been there, was a cult devotee, devotee, devote devot she
was devoted uh and sex worker. She's seventeen year old
Robin Murphy and she was there and according to her,
Drew handed her a knife and ordered her to slit

(42:53):
Karen's throat.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Whoa.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
So then he cut an X into her into Karen's chest.
Do you want me to say her last name instead
of Karen? No, it's probably okay, uh. And he used
the blood to put an X on this Robin Murphy's forehead.
Then they played around with this head.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Oh yeah, drugs, drugs, drugs, that's all I can.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Think, can you imagine not even just the detachment of
being able to kill someone, but then to have a
human head in front of you and not like I
feel like I would pass the fuck out saying why
she would?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
You would be in total shock. I mean you would be.
It's horrifying.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Well clearly, like if I see someone get hurt, I
am empathetic because I understand what getting hurt is and
I see it and I can identify with it.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
So like, you're really underlining this point that you're not
a sociopath.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
So I'm a really good yawn right now. Yon I'll
fucking yon too. See in case they're a new listener
that it's the test of a sociopath of you yawn
and the person doesn't yonn too, then they don't have
empathy for you. It's just this automatic response.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
No. I mean, but I deserve saying it's just.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
So gross even that we're talking about it, much less
to witness it, be a part of it, take part
in it.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
It doesn't. It's just defies.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Logic and the fact that not only is there one
person who does it, but you'll know someone else who's
cool with it too, Like the fact that there can
be two people, because I feel like that'd be one
in a million people. Yeah, but I guess they all
live in Fall River do Okay?

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Uh so only wait, telegram just arrived. It's everyone who
lives in Full River. They're super pissed at us, but.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
They're suing us. It's for defamation and.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
They said Twitter's not fast enough. We needed to let
you know how livid we are.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
It's actually it's a clown and it's a singing telegram.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
But he's got a bloody X on his head.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, don't worry about it. So only her school was
ever found, and the reason they found it is because
she had had X rays of her head, which I'm
like she had. They said she had sinus issue.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Oh so there was something to compare it like they
knew who it was.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, got it? Which is crazy. So finally a break
comes in the case. They the police had wiretapped the
phone hoping that they would find Carl Drew speaking about
the murders. But it's not him. It's the seventeen year
old girlfriend, Robert Murphy, and she is a sex worker
and aspiring pimp. So she's talking and it turns out

(45:30):
that she was saying that twenty five year old Drew
was not the ringleader, but that she was that rob
Seventeen year old Robin Murphy is huh. Robin Murphy contacts
police and she offers to testify against Andy Maltius. Remember
the guy who went in because he was his girlfriend. Yeah,
as a witness to the murder of his girlfriend. So

(45:53):
he killed his girlfriend and then went looking for her.
Is her story?

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Like, so was the setup? Basically like he was trying
to make him self look innocent.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Maybe unless Robin's lying, Okay. She also claimed to be
present for the Dorian Levech murder, and she agreed to
turn state's evidence in that case. She was like, I'll
tell you everything. In exchange, she gets a deal where
she's placed in proctive protective custody and she gets immunity
in both murders unless she was there for them, and yeah,

(46:28):
then they don't know if she was involved.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, I mean that seems like a dream, Like that's
basically her going, here's what I wish.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, and they're like granted. Yeah, So the story she
gave police was that Andy Maltius killed his girlfriend, Barbara
Raposa because he found out that she'd been cheating on
him with another man. So he goes to trial first
and based mostly on the testimony of Robin Murphy. In
January nineteen eighty one, he's convicted of the first degree

(46:57):
murder of Barbara Raposa, given a life sentence without the
possibility of parole, and he's later considered to be a
suspect in a few other unsolved area rapes dating back
to the early seventies, but no additional charges are ever
brought against him. He and then later he's found to
be clinically insane, but they still didn't overturn the verdict
or give him a new trial or anything like that.

(47:18):
But he ended up dying of cancer in nineteen ninety eight.
Wow in prison. Wow. So then Robin is allowed to
plead to the lesser charge of second degree murder in
exchange for her testimony against everyone, and they keep the
immunity deal that she had going and she received no
additional charges in connection with either of the other two murders,

(47:40):
so she's only getting charged with the murder the last
murder of Karen.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
So basically it was like whoever runs forward first and says,
I will like snitch on everybody else is the person
who gets the deal.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I think so, And like, I'll hear about plea deals
where they're like they agree that you know, the attorneys whatever.
I don't know. They agree to the terms of taking
a plea only if the information matches up. Yeah, so
if they end up they would agree to them if
this thing is the case? Is this thing is true,
which we should totally have Guy back on and ask

(48:14):
him about yeah, because that seems much more you know,
what's the word makes much more sense than just being
like okay anything you say no, no.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
I think isn't that always the rule that the thing that.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
You say has to then basically solve the crime and
be the thing that convicts the person, Right, Yeah, I'm
pretty sure that.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, we should definitely have.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Guy back or like saying that their involvement is is
this that has to be true? You know what I mean, like,
I'll testify here is my involvement. But if later it
turns out that that involvement isn't true, that you lie
about it, I don't know what's us guy.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
No, it wouldn't be that because that's like then they
would be planning for the person to lie, which.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
They could find anything. Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. Okay.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
I mean, what a boring part of a show where
we were like, we don't know anything about the law,
but let's say what we feel.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Definitely, let's talk about it.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
It's me going, I don't think it's that, but not
based on anything other than my just my gut.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
I didn't go to law school, but I bet there's
a really simple explanation to this.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Let's keep talking. Listen.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I'm a psychiatrist, I'm a lawyer, I'm a pologist, I'm
a psychologist. It's great. I'm a cat. I'm also a cat. Okay, okay.
So this chick Murphy received or her name what was
her name again, Robin Murphy's. She received a life sentence
with the possibility of parole. She spends twenty four years
in jail in prison, and then she's released on June tenth,

(49:46):
two thousand and four, but thank god, she violated her
parole and she goes to prison seven years later. She's
currently serving her time in a maximum security prison in Massachusetts,
and in eighty four she recants the entire stuf. She
says none of it is true. She's trying to get
a new trial, it doesn't happen. She's eligible for parole
in March twenty seventeen, which, if you look at your calendar,

(50:09):
was like two months ago, and they're reviewing it right now.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Hold on, So, in saying that the whole story is
not true, is what she's saying that the Satanic cult
part's not true? Or she's saying that her part in
the murder isn't true.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I think what she's saying is that the people she
is fingering for the crime didn't actually do it. Wow,
she doesn't. It's not true, got it. I don't know
exactly if she gave an alternative story. I couldn't find
anything on that. So Carl Davis, who's a different Carl

(50:44):
who's involved with the slaughter, with the murder of Karen Marson,
he doesn't ever stand trial for it, and the following
year he's arrested for assaulting a woman named Sunny Sparta,
and according to the statement by Carl Drew the other
guy on his wait for it personal blog, he's still
in prison.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
He's a blogger.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, it's said that Carl Davis beat up this three
month pregnant woman Sonny stabbed her in the head with
a knife, and only because she had information implicating him
Carl Davis and the woman Robin, and that Carl Drew
had nothing to do with it, but she was too scared.
This woman Sonny was then too scared to testify.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Jesus, that just keeps happening with these people.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Yeah, so there's some really convoluted, crazy shit going on.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
It kind of makes sense though that they wouldn't be
involving this truly right satanic, scariest person.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Well he's if he's not in prison.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Yeah right, It's almost like that usually happens, where they
manipulate everybody into doing what they want, yeah, the whole time,
and then everyone else takes a fall.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Well, they're proving that. It's proven a couple of times
that they kill people who snitch. Yes, and if Carl
Drew is the killer, then they could talk. But because
he's locked up. But if the dude who actually did
it isn't locked up, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Listen, that really seemed like it was going somewhere.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
It was he get it, like I don't even need
to finish it, you know what I mean, Like it's
just I'm just talking. So okay, So for that stabbing
he served seven years and he's now free. This guy
Carl Davis. Fuck, okay, getting to these.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
There's a bunch of bad Carls in that area, Carl,
It's so many.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Bad Carls, all right.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
So the case of the first chick, Dauren Levec, never
goes to trial because the district attorney is like, it
would cost too much and it would be futile because
he already has Carl Drew already has a life sentence.
So what's the point. It's called uh justice, They cover
out the word all the charges against Okay. Anyways, Okay,

(53:00):
so people still think that the actual ringleader and the
murder isn't Carl Drew, but is Robin.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
This seventeen year olds want to be pimp girl.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, according to according to this blog that he writes,
which I read it and it's actually it's pretty it's good.
It's like he's he is pissed off about his trial.
He like goes down the breakthrough of what happened and
you know, all this like prosecutor intimidation to the witnesses
to you know, testify against him, and he says that

(53:33):
her IQ was one hundred and thirty eight. She was
incredibly smart and manipulative, and the attorneys don't want to
admit that they got fooled by a seventeen year old
girl apparently.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Just real quick.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
So do you think Robin and Carl like went to
the IQ place one day together and just like get
text some tests and we're like, oh my god, what
did you get?

Speaker 1 (53:56):
You get?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Did you get?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Well, they just both went online and did one of this,
like a key testt have to put your email dress
in so it's so annoying to get it, you know those,
and like you've gotten to the end of it and
you don't want to give them your email address, but like.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
But you have to find out you went.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
You took ten minutes out of your Yeah, when you're
supposed to be working.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
I just love that he had her IQ right there
on hand.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Well, he said that they gave it to her when
she went into prison, which I don't think they do.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
How did he know that?

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Good question?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Just because he has a blog, Let's not give him
all this credit all of a sudden, he's the greatest.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
I think every blogger is the greatest. You know that
about me. The minute I fan someone.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
Has a blog, I'm like you relate because you're also
a blogger.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Yeah, oh they must be really smart.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Oh my god, my kindred, my kind my kind my people.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
So they think that Robin acted alone or really it's
a mastermind, and that Drew is actually totally innocent. But
he's convicted a first degree murder and for Karen's murder
and serving a life in Massachusetts, no possibility of parole. Then,
so Robin ends up recanting her statement. She claimed she
lighted about the whole thing and that the Carl Drew

(55:02):
wasn't even involved. She says he wasn't even involved, and
three witnesses come forward who had testified against him, that
they had been pressured by the prosecution to testify and
that they actually wanted to testify for him, but they
got too scared and didn't.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
And so sorry. So then according to that story, it's
the other bad.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Carl, it's or it's no, it's Rob.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
There's a mystery maybe Robin and this other Carl, who know.
I don't know exactly, but Robin is definitely a mastermind
in it, and so who knows who else she worked with.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
But that's kind of an amazing movie right there. Yeah,
you get it. One of those fanning girls cast them.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
It's like Dakota, who else is there? There's Dakote L,
there's l.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
I'm sure there's others so talented back at the house,
that idea is just like amazing.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Who done it?

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Who done it? Was it a seventeen year old running
the whole show?

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Or was it the fucking twenty five year old pimp
who had a wade through carcasses of animals?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
See Also, it's just so uh, it's fascinating. I would
love to know how many people were like at those
Was it just as straight up we took her into
the woods and killed her or did they go ceremonial
and was it this big creepy thing? Like it just
seems like now I really want to know what the
actual story is. Was it like were they taking advantage
of Satanic panic and like putting it all under that?

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Like what the hell?

Speaker 1 (56:28):
I just can't imagine someone really believing in Satan Like
he never.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Oh wow, hello, he never answered to the Catholic Church.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I was going to be like, it's not like you
can believe in it because he talks to you, But
then I'm like, oh, that's what people think about Jesus,
thank God.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
I mean in a lot of things. Yeah, horns, blogs, blog. Look,
he's starting to me.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Well, the happy ending of the story is that he
has a blog.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
And anyone can, and that blogs forgive you no matter
what you do.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Listen, go to blog spot to start yourself at your.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
What about angel Fire? Isn't that one that wasn't that
a blog spot?

Speaker 3 (57:09):
What is Saven?

Speaker 1 (57:11):
You say, what angel Fire? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:12):
It was.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
It was a blog website. It's it's shut down, but
it's all archives so you can still find your old
But what is websites?

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Just like.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
It's a hosting program? Yeah, I like blogspot.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
That was the first My friend had a blog where
she would just rant and talk full shit constantly and
it was like bloody bla angelfire dot net or whatever
it was. And I just thought it was I was
so new and that it was the beginning of the
Internet that I thought angel Fire was like where all
blogs took place. I was like, oh, angel Fire, that's amazing.
And then later on when that didn't exist anymore, I

(57:45):
was like, oh, there's blogs other places like Yeah, I
just thought it was that one spot.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Yeah. Well, and then blog spot became that one spot
m hmmm.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
They got a little smarter.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
They don't.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
They went secular with it.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
They knew it don't involve angel in this or fire
sounds satanic.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Yeah, that whole concept is a bit much. It's a
bit beyond, Like, we.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Don't even believe that, and we believe in blogs. They're
not true. What if blogs were emit, like blogs were
like Unicorn's Like, I don't think they ever existed, and
someone's like, yes they did, there's proof, I could print
it up.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
And they're like, yeah, right, yeah, I believe in blogs.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Oh my wog is fucking gone from the Internet, so
nobody tried to find it.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
By the way, Oh you look, you erased it.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
I took it down because I read it recently and
I was like, oh my god. I was like, oh
my Gokay.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Was it just like your diary, like your daily thoughts? No,
it was just give me more, just give me a
taste of.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
It, okay. I like, I would write really lovely, flourishy,
gorgeous tales of you know, my life. But then one
of them was about my car getting broken into. Oh
were you there, Steven, Now, yeah, it was just.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Like it was just such to you there in the
nineties with me. Stephen.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Yeah, Stephen, you were there. I met like I did
a reading recently on read one because it was so stupid,
but oh oh yeah. It was like a twenty seven
year old girl who wanted to sound fucking what's the
word worldly?

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, stop at twenty seven year olds.
I mean, that's that's what twenty seven year olds were
built for.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
That's what the blogs were built for. Yeah, twenty seven
year old. Yeah, amazing, Enough about me talk about murder?

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Had I wish to? I guess? I bet you.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
That's such a frustrating part of being a part of
the legal system is so much lying.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Oh you just are.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Like, we had this old thing set up, and you
promised me it was the truth.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
Now we're going with this story.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Yeah and no, and then four years later you're like,
I lied about all of it.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
It's like like.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
We went off of that entire thing. That would be
great if like people stop lying.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
I mean, if they found like the same way as
you can get like a fingerprint analyzed, you can somehow
accurately get a lie detector, like a lie detective doctor test.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
It's not those don't work, though they're fifty to fifty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
I wonder if people if they came up with, isn't
there a truth? Isn't there like a truth serum powder.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Well, they can inject a truth storum, but doesn't necessarily
mean you will tell the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
And if you're know a lot about that, what's that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
I don't know a lot about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
That About truth serum. I think it's like a it
chills you out.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
You know what? Why am I talking right now? If
you can tell us doctors and chemists, I'll tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Thank you so much. I want to say it's sodium pentathal,
but I think that's poison.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
No, no, I think it is a sodium pedothol. Did
I get this, Stephen? Do you think it is?

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Oh my god, I'm so impressed with myself. I got that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
I think you're right too. Yeah, I'm fucking so.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I think there are people who can beat it, who
can game it when they know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
It's going to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Well, when you don't care about anything, you can't do it.
You can trick it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Also, I think it's I think the reason they don't
use it more is because they can't just shoot up
whoever they want.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, I think I was going to say that it
must be against rights somehow.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I bet it is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I don't stop lying.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
I mean, I'll start with me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
What is it, Stephen?

Speaker 4 (01:01:22):
Sodium pentathol is used to induce comas anesthesia. Yeah, euthanasia.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Oh nope, that's the euthanasia.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
That's oh nope, truth truth serum. There we go.

Speaker 4 (01:01:38):
It's still used in some places as a truth serum
to weaken the resolve of a subject and make them
more compliant to pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
It's called wine exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
I was going to say to light does six wine coolers?

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Yeah, Watermelon Wave, Bartles and James strawberry strawberry. What what's
that one wine that's like strawberry flavored wine?

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
What is it called?

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
It's like super cheap and shitty blue Nune. No, I
don't know what that is, but.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
You'd know it. Uh Thunderbird night train, night train.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
No, someone's yelling it at home? Yeah, anyways, someone's drinking
it at home.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Who gotta hope?

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
You gotta hope? Okay, we're back. Are there updates for
this one? There are, actually so. Carl Drew continues to
serve his life sentence in prison. He recently won a
court case granting him access to previously protected documents that
could prove his innocence, and then Robin Murphy was granted
parole in twenty twenty four. The Massachusetts Parole Board based

(01:02:42):
its decision on several factors. One is that Robin seemed
to have addressed her own trauma and addiction issues, and
she seems more able to have empathy. She also has
earned her bachelor's degree from Boston University, and so the
board noted her work inside the prison in a training
program matching dog and military veterans. The board said, quote,

(01:03:02):
she acknowledged that due to her pattern of dishonesty, many
people have been harmed. She's willing to try and rectify
the harm she has caused. End quote. So I mean,
if that's the point of our prison system, then it
seems like she met those she did in mands. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Also, she was young on drugs, you know, in with
a crowd or whatever. And I think what we've learned
over the years is like that's definitely a thing you
do not see the true sociopaths or psychopaths do. They
do not admit that they did anything wrong right the victim.
It's always sad for them. It's they never do this.
So it's like, that's all anyone's looking.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
For, Yeah, rehabilitation, And I mean, you know, I just
can't ever not think about the fact that I hung
out with the fucked up people back then when I
was a thirteen year old, and to think that the
mistakes I made back then, Yeah, not that i'd ever
I did anything. I mean I did illegal shit. For sure,
I didn't hurt anyone, but I definitely fucking did illegal shit.

(01:04:03):
And so the fact, you know, it's just I'm just
always so grateful that I got out of that, and
so for her to have a chance to do that
too is important, I think.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
Yes, agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Okay, all right, well Karen, let's get into your wild
story about the Berkeley hostage crisis.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Okay, mine this week I picked because I like doing
these ones where I can remember hearing about it or
some kind of love those right, some kind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Of thing where you're like, wait, what was that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Oh yeah, I get to talk about this.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
So I had this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I can't remember whatever I was watching or thinking of,
but it was like, because this isn't there There was
a murder in it, but it was more of a
hostage crisis.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
So this is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Scare the shit out of me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
The man's name was Murderdad dash D and it was
the nineteen ninety Berkeley stitch crisis.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Do you remember this? No, nineteen ninety you were blogging? No,
you were too young. Back then? Were you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Was just called diary ing?

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Then? Back then?

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Were you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
I was ten in nineteen ninety, so no, I haven't
even know how to write yet.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
Can you write?

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
At ten?

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
You could write cursive? I bet?

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Yeah, I bet you could write a nice paragraph about
like what I did this summer, Yes, with some good
ten dollar words in it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Okay, So I was twenty so I was in San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Oh so you were fucking there for it?

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
You know? Sorry, I was. I was in Sacramento.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
It could have been you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
I move.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Yeah, I moved to San Francisco when I was twenty two.
So I was Sacramento. So I wasn't like right across
the bay, but we were close by. And it was
on the news. This is this was so crazy because
they when this happened and the news found out about it,
they went live.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
On the news. Okay, so this is basically what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
It's September twenty sixth, nineteen ninety just before midnight, and
a twenty nine year old Iranian male named Murdaud Dashti
and his friend decided to go to Henry's Public House,
which is in the lobby of the Durant Hotel one
block south of the Berkeley Campus in Berkeley, California, across

(01:06:19):
right across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco. So uh,
Murdaud Dashti had told his friend he had he went
to Berkeley.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Four years earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
He had graduated with an engineering degree, and he didn't
get a job like he had. He came from Iran
and obviously was super smart, got into Berkeley.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Which no one I knew he do no.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
And got this engineering degree, but then when he got out,
couldn't get a job. That was like he didn't get
an engineering job. Or he had these dreams of like
now in America and now I'm gonna get a really awesome,
high paying job.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
So we couldn't get it, and he was he started doing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Handyman work and it was, you know, very much beneath him,
but he needed the money.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
He had also.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Gotten married, I think it was the year before he graduated,
and his marriage like kind of crumbled and the more
he wasn't finding a job, and the less money they
had and stuff, the more controlling he was with his wife.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
And his wife was like, see you later.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Money issues, Yes, bad news.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
So he ends up in this apartment alone and he
was later on the police found out that he was schizophrenic.
He was a paranoid skits wow. So he had started
to hear voices, but he wasn't. He didn't deal with
it in any way. He just was listening to the voices,
fighting with the voices. He was living in that world.

(01:07:52):
But he didn't ever go get any kind of mental
help or medical help for that issue. That night, on
December twenty sixth, he tells his friend he wants to
go to a bar where a lot of blonde white
women will be and so his friend decides that they
should go to Henry's.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
And Henry's was this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
It was really close to the campus, so a lot
of shorty girls and frat boys would go there and
it was just like this super popular bar.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Sounds like a blast.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Yeah, oh sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
A lot of this I got from a show that
I found online. That's an ID channel show called Deadly Demands,
season one, episode five, and they had actually in this show.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
A lot of this live footage that was from KPIX.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
I don't know if you remember Channel five in San
Francisco now I was in the Bay area. KPIX is
the local news, local TV channel. You know their jingle
kpix No I could. Channel two is the one we
watched the most, which was KTVU. They had a whole
song about yeah, there was only one who was there,

(01:09:01):
like slow, isn't that good?

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
There was only one two.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
I was only one to fucking love that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
And in the late seventies early eighties, when the San
Francisco Giants only ever lost, like they never won a
game ever, there was a like a fifteen second promo
that they would run during the cartoon time and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
Like after school, like four o'clock or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
And it was just like the most janky early eighties
graphics of a baseball player swinging about, but the as
he swung, it was just like flash animation where the
colors changed into like a like a brown and yellow rainbow,
so it'd be he would swing and it'd be like
brown light, brown, tan, yellow orange or whatever, and the

(01:09:42):
song that played underneath it was come.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
On, Giants, hang in there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Oh, my god, how fucking pathetic is that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
That's our new thing. Come when we're feeling low, hang
in there.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Come on, Jorjia, hang in there. My sister and I
used to say it to each other all the time.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
I love it. One because it's fucking hilarious and horrible.
Two because you're singing. You have a great voice, so
it's like it's good, like if I tried it wouldn't
be good. Well, also it's it's so tacky, it's so ugly.
Everything's brown.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
It doesn't it's brown, and it's the kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Like you would never see it these days because it's like, no,
don't don't cheer on your losing team by basically going
don't quit baseball.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Yeah you'll get there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
Yeah, Like, don't walk up the field, don't walk it up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
So an, I told you it's gonna be terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Come Okay, So props to k TVU, but this was
kpi S totally different channel. So they're in Henry's they
call Last Call. They're the Dosh and his friend are
sitting in the corner and at one point his friend
goes and goes up to get drinks and Dosh goes,

(01:10:58):
hold on, hold on a Second'm gonna out to the car.
He goes out to the car, and he comes back
with a briefcase. Yeah, and.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
So last call has called.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Everyone's kind of like they're like wrapping it up. And
at one point Dash opens the briefcase, pulls out a
semi automatic and just starts shooting it into the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:22):
Air in the bar.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
In the bar, So there are sixty seven people in
the bar, holy shit at the time, and half of
them run out. Then I think they said like eight
people were shot in that time. So and then everybody
else hits the floor and kind of when this dust settles,

(01:11:44):
he says, he yells to everybody, if you're hurt, you
can leave right now.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
So weird. Yes, So there are like one woman in
this and deadly, deadly demands.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
She she got shot eight times and she didn't even
know it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
She was just like.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
Sitting there, what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Yes, And because it's an automatic weapon, because we fucking
need automatic weapons in this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
Country so fucking badly assault rifles.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Everyone had one and.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
This guy had many. He Yeah, she got shot eight
times and didn't She said, I felt uncomfortable and then
I touched my side and I was bleeding.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
So she got up and walked out. What the fuck?

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
She's totally probably just making me feel much better though
about what the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Pain that you? Probably? I always like think about the
pain when you get shot.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Yeah, well you I think you go into shock like
she would go into shock because she didn't get shot. Yeah,
in any she got, luckily was like her side.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
So she got to leave.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
And then there was a guy that he shot a
guy right in the chest. A student and two other
guys went, can we please bring him outside because he
can't go up outside by himself, And she said, you can,
but you have to come back.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
So they all go outside. I seriously doubt they came back.
Can you imagine, You're like, I'm a man of my word.
I'm here, I'm here a.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Gun So okay. So there's a cop, a patrol officer
that's walking up and down the street and he's like
half a block away.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
He hears gunshocks.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
He thinks it might be firecrackers, but he goes to
look and see what it is, and as he gets
closer he sees the people running out of the pub.
He realizes then it's gun fire and immediately calls it in.
So so there's cops and ambulances and everybody on the
scene really quickly, because luckily someone was right there like
the second it went off. So there's they have the

(01:13:44):
bar surrounded, you know, very quickly. The swat team is
on site. And so this is the amazing part. He
so the hurt people leave, he's got everybody else, and
he immediately makes everyone that's still in the bar line
up against the windows that face the There's like a

(01:14:04):
wall of windows that face the street, and he's like,
everybody line up against the windows. Therefore they're blocking the
windows from the cops can't see and they can't shoot
into the windows.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
How's scary for those people? Yeah, where's his friend right now?
His friend ran out?

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
Okay, yeah, and his friend ran out random The cops said,
his name is this He has these guns, like I
didn't know, and he lives up the street. So then
immediately the cops get a search warrant and they go
into his apartment and they start discovering all the things
that they eventually find out about him, which is he
went to Berkeley. He's basically now living almost in Squalor, divorced,

(01:14:42):
and he's written all.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
These letters to the police, to the government, basically saying,
you owe me sixteen trillion dollars for the psychic services
that I've been providing for you. So he believes that
the voices.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
In his head are the American government telling him what
to do, and he has been listening and obeying and
now believes he should be compensated for what he's been doing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
And it's so insane.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
In the show, they show two hours before he takes
this bar hostage, he had called nine to one one
in Berkeley and he's talking and this woman is so
calm and trying to get the information out of him.
But he's basically saying, in a very calm and rational
sounding voice, he's saying, Okay, so I just need the

(01:15:33):
police and the government to pay me the money they
owe me.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
God, because they have been using.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
You know, my telepathy, they've been using it, and they
said they were going to pay me, and I need
that money.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Should you listen to it?

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
I didn't really. I thought it was a reenactment, and
then realized.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Because everyone's so chill, Yes they were.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
The woman was so professional and he was so calm
that it was not a reenact.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
Wow, And it was.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
It's the kind of thing where if I was a dispatcher,
I don't know if I would have stayed on the
phone with him as long as she did, because it
sounded like bullshit.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
It went from reasonable to.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Super crazy, where you'd go, oh, this is a person
playing a prank. It doesn't sound like a crazy person
at all. He sounds very reasonable and like he just
needs his money. And what he starts telling her is
he needs money because he just got this letter saying
he has to go to jail.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
And what had happened. What happened was he.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
I think it was like three weeks before. I can't
remember the timeline exactly, but he because he had didn't
have a job, because his wife left him, because he
didn't have any money, he had taken his car, driven
into San Francisco and just smashed a bunch of really
nice cars with his car, and he got arrested for it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
He got caught after having done it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
He basically probably went to like Pacific Heights or knob
Hill or some were crazy fancy and just like smashed
all the Mercedes, like parked on one street.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Who wouldn't want to bet it felt pretty great.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
As revenge but then here's the problem. They arrest him,
They bring him into the police station and they do
a strip search on him, and for him already being
in the mental state that he's in and also being
a practicing Muslim, where being naked, like, they made him
strip naked and it was incredibly obviously. I mean, it'd

(01:17:25):
be demeaning to anybody, it doesn't matter what your religion is.
But the way they were saying it in this story,
it made it down like it was in a religious way,
not very inappropriate.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
For humiliar someone. Yeah. Probably now there's like, yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
So so that was part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
So when one of his first demands, so what he
does is, once he gets everyone lined up against the
wall he first asked, he makes all the blonde pretty.
He says, all the pretty blonde women in the bar
come and stand in the center. So they do, and
he makes them strip. And then there's no, it's not

(01:18:06):
in any of the like articles I found.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
It wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
It was definitely not in Dudley Demand. But I heard
about this like it was things that people weren't that they.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
Weren't putting in the newspaper.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
But basically, after making these women strip he made the
men in the bar basically sexually assault the women. Oh
my god, but no one has that that was in
this website. I found that it's like a police report
thing that they do not go into detail at all.
And of course a lot of the men tried to
block his view, so they were pretending to be doing

(01:18:40):
something that they weren't actually doing. But then apparently there
were things where he it was he made like them,
Oh my god, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
What it is.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
It's the creepiest part of the story, and it's the
part that I remember people talking.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
About the most where it's like, what about it just
person to person?

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Yeah, so who knows the urban legend element of it
because it's so salacious and gross.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
But also the thing that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
I heard was that he made somebody assault someone else
with a carrot, and he talked about bugs Bunny a lot,
like it was this like one of his fixations. But
that to me, that sounds like it could just as
much be an urban legend as it could be anything else.
That's like totally sounds like crazy a carrot in barlately, right?

(01:19:31):
Or did he bring it with him because it was
part of his like weird plan to humiliate, Like what
would humiliate a person the most, I don't know any
way you slice it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
It's hideous and disgusting, but.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
They barely touch on it in the in the TV
show version, it's just the women standing there, stripping and
stripped and crying and like being humiliated that way. So
then the next thing he says is he makes a
guy take a barstool and break a window, and then
the guy he sits down against the wall, is squatted down,

(01:20:05):
and he just makes this guy be his voice for him.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
So the guy and you see this. They have news
footage of this because this is they went live on
kpix almost immediately. And you see the guy who's like
a frat boy from the eighties.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
He's got like, you know, like the blonde hair parted
on the side, and the white shirt or whatever. If
he looks scared or is he nerves too far away
to see that, you can kind of just see that.
It's like an eighties outfit, and he's basically saying they
want he wants, he wants. Police Chief Frank Jordan is

(01:20:40):
the mayor of the police chief and he's the police chief.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
I have it here somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Wants him to go on the news and take his
pants off. He wants them to strip from the waist
down and go on live TV.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
This is some dark mirror shit.

Speaker 3 (01:20:54):
Yeah, black mirror, black marry, this is some black marror shit.
But it's basically he.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Wants he wants to human the head of the police
department the way he was humiliated, and he wants it
to be on TV. Which finally there's a because I'd
only ever heard of those demands that he had, and
they just made it soun like can you believe that?
It's like, no, there's fucking backstory to this.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
He was.

Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
There's a reason for it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
There is a logic to it. It's kind of like
the center of the whole fucking thing.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
It really is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
And also, why if you smashed your car into things,
why did you have to get strip served?

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Definitely, i mean it's almost like were they yeah or
were they like he's clearly on some drugs, right, but
it was just schizophrenic.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Or was it that time of like was it racism?
Was it? Was it some kind of what was happening?

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Definitely?

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
Okay, so no, it is Frank Jordan. Frank Jordan was
the chief of police.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
So anyway, they're like, and they're he's basically saying, he
turned on the TV in the bar and he's like,
I want to see it happening. So the the it's
driving the negotiators crazy because he won't get on the
phone and he won't talk himself because he knows if
he stands up in front of that window they're gonna
shoot him. Sure, so he will only talk through a

(01:22:12):
proxy or you know whatever. So they can't negotiate that way.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
So they keep saying, like, we need more time.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
He's also demanding He demanded sixteen trillion dollars. He also
wanted California, Nevada, and Oregon, like because he wants He
is like, this is what I'm owed. I've done all
this work for you, psychically, you owe me this.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
So anyway, they keep saying, we need.

Speaker 2 (01:22:42):
Time or we have to But that's when the negotiators
and the police start to realize this is a very
bad situation because we can't give him even some of
what he needs. We can't even approximate a negotiation here,
so this is going to go back.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
He may have like lied.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
Well, but he wanted to on the news. He wanted
to see it on his TV. So he wanted to
see something actually happening. And they're like, there's there will
not be progress here. So that all happens, it's like
basically in four hours. So it's now four am and
there's no progress, and he's getting really agitated, and he
finally says, I guess I'm going to have to shoot somebody,

(01:23:20):
which one of you is going to be the one
that gets shot?

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
And he's looking around this bar and it's these are
college kids. They're all people that are probably the oldest
twenty three, and they're looking at each other and one
guy steps forward and says, you can shoot me yep.
So then he says, can I go tell them what's
about to happen?

Speaker 3 (01:23:45):
And the guy says yes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
So he goes to the window and says, I'm about
to be I'm about to be.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
I'm sorry, I'm about to be executed right now.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
And of course the police are like they don't know
what to do because they don't don't have a clear
they don't have a clear in in any way.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
And it also was a.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Part of it that the part of that was bad
was that it was in this lobby of this hotel.
So there's people in the hotel. Holy shit, and it's
the middle of the night, but they know they're they're
like time is ticking away because pretty soon.

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
Like by seven am.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
This is a college campus, they're practically on campus, so
like they're not going to be able to keep people
from coming closer and closer to the scene. So they
know they're going to have to do something about it soon.
So the guy yells ou out the window. Nobody knows
what to do. This is on the news they have,
like they were showing this footage. The kid walks back.
He says to the guy, can I say a prayer?

(01:24:41):
And the guy says yes, And so the kid says
a prayer. They all are just sitting there like watching.
Someone will close their eyes and then the guy shoots
into the ceiling. And so when they they said, these
people being interviewed who went through this said like they
hurt all the he says that smoke clears, and then

(01:25:02):
he's still standing there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
So they realized that he's just trying.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
He's trying to prove that he means business, but he
actually doesn't want to hurt or kill anybody. But he
feels like he's being pushed to the limit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
That guy who volunteered, they.

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
Don't say his name. I couldn't find his name anywhere
I know in hard Stark.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
What was my dad?

Speaker 3 (01:25:23):
Oh my god, what is your family? My dad's like, Oh,
that was a crazy night at work.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Well, I used to go to a co ed bars sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:25:31):
I took some night classes over at cal Yeah, that's
what he would call it. Cow. So a couple of.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
The women in the show say that they think that
actually made him feel very empowered and made him feel better.
So it brought the level of tension down a little
bit because it was like because he could choose who
didn't kill him or not exactly right, and he kind
of chose the better thing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
But that's also from outside. The cops freak out because.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
They think someone someone yells I'm about to be executed
and then there's gunshots.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
So it's so hard to hear these things and not
think of like cell phones, I know, you know what
I mean, because you're like, oh, I wonder if someone
had their cell phone open and was tine. It's like,
there weren't cell.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Phone nineteen ninety there was nothing. Yeah, it's so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
It was nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:26:17):
It was such a bizarrely.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Innocent time in some ways, and then also media wise,
very stupid because the fact that the news was running
it live, like people got to watch it as it
happened was very bad.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
And then it bolstered him, probably because he was like,
now a big deal and everyone was that's a thing
of like, don't say the killer's name, say the victims' names,
because that's what they want us to be famous.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
Exactly right, And it gave the police no control. Whatever
happened and whatever the newscasters decided to talk about was.

Speaker 3 (01:26:52):
What was happening.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
So when the newscasters found out that he had been
diagnosed as a paranoids getsphronic, they said it he saw it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
Then he got all upset, so he got his wife
left him or whatever. He sees it, and then he's like,
it's it's more. And it's also feeding into his paranoid,
schizophrenic idea that that the government is in his head.
All of the things that were happening were feeding into
all his worst fears. That makes sense, and escalating it essentially.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Okay, So so they put snipers on the roof across
the street and At one point, they're like, because they're
trying to you know now it's uh, it's four him,
it's getting you know, it's been going on. So they
decide that the snipers are like, these street lights are
actually compromising our position here. If he looks out the

(01:27:43):
wayow he can see us sitting here, he might freak out.
So somebody else decides to shoot out the street lights.
Well then he hears dosh, she hears that happening outside
and gets all agitated.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
Jesus, that was a bad idea. Yeah. Uh, that's when
they said.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
His mood starts to swing from he's like rage, screaming,
going crazy, to sitting quietly and mumbling to himself for
like long periods of time. At five am, he tells
the bartender give everybody four beers. Everybody drank and have fun.
And one of the women being interviewed says, that's when

(01:28:27):
we knew he was going to kill all of us,
because he basically wanted it all to be okay for us.
When it happened, he felt like that it was clear
that the plan was like, have your last four beers,
have your final raw party, and that's when.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
It got super scary.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Oh, in that, so he has a briefcase just for
the details. In the briefcase, he has a large caliber revolver,
two handguns, a fully automatic pistol. Oh sorry, no, the
handguns were one was fully automatic and one was semi automatic,
and then he has ammunition for all three. So he's

(01:29:08):
just got It's like there, he's not going anywhere. He's
got a briefcase full of stuff. As they're watching the news,
the news.

Speaker 3 (01:29:16):
Reports that the boy that he shot in the chest
died at the hospital. Oh no, and dash, she starts
going crazy, going, I didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:26):
I did not kill him. They're lying there, this is
the government. They're lying. I didn't do it. And he
loses his shit. Oh my god, which I think is
another really sad part about it, because it's like he
went in there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
He had this big plan.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
He was gonna he wanted to defile America's citizens. He
wanted to do to America what America was doing to him.
But he actually didn't, like actually, deep down that he
wasn't a killer.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Really he wanted to do that, but he didn't. Doesn't
sound like because letting all the people who got hurt
go is just such a yeah, go get you know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
It's yeah, it's not what like a you know, psychopath
would do or a person that's like, I've got this
plan and here's my perfect revenge. It's like a person
with a serious mental issue who's trying to fix the
complete abject.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
Desperation of his own life. It's horrifying.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
So anyway, so okay, So he tells one of the
female hostages to go into to see if she can
go find go into the kitchen, which is now dark,
and find a light switch, like he wanted to go

(01:30:38):
into the back room for some reason. Well, she goes
in there and then sees that there's an exit giver
and she gets the fuck out, and then she goes
to the police and like reports everything that's going on
and updates everything. And then another at around four a m.
Another female hostage she had moved into and hid in

(01:31:02):
the dining room area, and she managed to open like
an accordion style door that led to the hotel lobby,
so she got out too. So then around six point
fifteen in the morning, the rear kitchen door opens again
and a third female hostage, who was sent into the
kitchen to find a light not learn his life does it.

Speaker 3 (01:31:25):
Yeah, he just wants that light.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
So bad that he's not seeing his mistake. So she
gets out too, So now there's thirty three people still
in the pub with him. Now the problem is again
because it's the nineties, there's no cell phones or anything.
The whole phone system is the hotel's phone system, so
it's you know that crazy thing of like it's all
the lines are connected to the lobby. So it took

(01:31:49):
them that a really long time to just go straight
to the pub phone. So they finally start calling the
pub phone and he won't answer it, and he's saying,
they're just trying to get to they're trying to distract
me and just not coincidentally, but by chance or whatever,
is that the same The phone's cord couldn't stretch past

(01:32:12):
the bar, so when the phone was ringing, he was like,
bring it to me, but it couldn't reach where he was,
so he would have had to get up and walk
to the bar to answer the phone, which he believed
was a trick.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
So he makes a guy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
Yeah, it's just one more thing where it's like everything's
feeding into his paranoia.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
So he makes a guy get on the.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Phone and again by proxy, they're trying to negotiate, which
it doesn't work, and the guy is demanding yelling stuff
and whatever, and the proxy is kind of trying to
say the calm version of what the guy is saying,
because he's like, I want sixteen trillion dollars from my
Mantle telepathy services.

Speaker 3 (01:32:48):
It's all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
So they had basically they knew they were at an
impasse because they weren'ting to be able to negotiate with him.
There was no They had done everything that they could
in terms of negotiation. So they knew now that the
waiting strategy that part was over because they had they
had to take some kind of an action.

Speaker 3 (01:33:07):
So they decided they were going to do.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
A diversion tactics, which is basically when the swap team
goes in in two teams and one of the team
rolls in like a flash canister, and then the other
team comes in from the other side. So when they
they it's seven twenty three in the morning, so they'd
been there for fucking almost eight hours. They roll in

(01:33:34):
the flash canister and everyone starts screaming, and the cops
come in and they the second team like opens the
door and they're like, get out, get out, get out.
So some people are running and as he stands up
from his place where he'd been, you know, like crouched

(01:33:55):
against the wall, and he starts moving toward a booth
where he had all these people. And when the swap
team saw him moving toward that group of hostages, they
shot him. They they yelled for him to put the
gun down or whatever, and he didn't, and he kept
moving and so they shot him there and then they
got the rest of the hostages out and then they
got Dashdi into an ambulance and he died on the

(01:34:17):
way to the hospital. Yeah, and holy shit, essentially the
uh they the news was using high power cameras, they
were monitoring police radios, they were seeking public interviews. They

(01:34:37):
were broadcasting detailed and often uncoroborated information the entire night
and never thinking about what would happen. And they actually,
I'm not sure if it was kpi X or a
different newsplace, but but they had they reported the swat

(01:34:58):
team plan news and the only reason Dashitie didn't see
it is because he had turned it to a different
channel at that point. Just fuck just by luck, because
they were just basically it was almost like having never
been in that scenario before, they were like, let's go
with the story.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
Let's keep it's.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
The reason that like, it's the reason we are now
in this twenty four hour news cycle that is that
is capturing and poisoned the minds to so many people
because the news does it for money and because they
keep eyes on the screen. And this was almost like
one of the first versions of that and the worst
versions of it. Yeah, so anyway to this to date,

(01:35:39):
they say this incident is one of the most significant
hostage rescue opera significant and successful hostage rescue operations in
US history.

Speaker 3 (01:35:51):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's amazing that they were able
to do that without anyone else getting hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Yes, you know, yeah they didn't shoot anybody or no,
no innocent bystanders. But it's really crazy when in that
show Watching in the morning light when they when those
people start finally start running and there's just swap people
all the way up the street going like this and
just people in.

Speaker 3 (01:36:14):
Eighties clothes fucking like booking it up the street.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
Have I never seen that? It's yeah, I'm just picturing
the Columbine video of the footage of the kids getting
out of the Yeah, and how scary that is.

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
It's so so awful.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
That is so terrifying. You just got to wonder what
you do in those like you personally would do in
those situations. And as much as I'm like, it's the
thing of like, well, those girls escaped, but like at
what costs? You know too, because you're always like, well,
they're going to kill someone else because I escaped. But
then they were able to probably tell police where he
was crouched and what he was doing and what.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
He yes, like what this situation was inside. Also, the
girl that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
Got shot eight times, her friends had to stay behind,
so she had all this guilt.

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
She got to leave and her friends were there, so
she's like.

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
Met you know, any times I think, yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
Have shoddy times, you're free and clear, But I mean,
that's what a terrible scenario to even be in totally
and yeah, it's just it's just such a crazy, fucking
unbelievable thing that happened.

Speaker 3 (01:37:21):
Yeah, well fuck man, Yeah that's how everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
Okay, we're back. Are there any updates?

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
Karen not really like case updates, but because of the
way the media covered this story and the live updates
of the hostage situation and the updates of the special
response team plan that whole mess. The hostages later sent
an open letter to the media asking them to reconsider
the way they report future hostage situations, saying some of

(01:37:53):
the broadcasts had put their lives at risk and as
a result of that, news stations changed their policies reporting
breaking news like that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:02):
That's incredible. Yeah, wow, all right, let's head back in
to wrap up the show.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
God bless amen.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
Okay, positive thing this week, positive thing this week. Go ahead, Okay.
Last night I got to see the movie The Big Sick,
which our friends Emily Gordon and Kummel nan Gianni made,
and it was so lovely and such a great romantic

(01:38:35):
story that isn't shitty. It's always weird because I've known
Emily for a long time and she told me the
story about how it's a story of how they started
dating and she told me this and just to watch it,
and Kumeo's in it and Zoe Kazan, who's so fucking talent.
It was just please go watch it. It's just such
a great movie of like, is it out? I think

(01:38:58):
it's coming out this weekend or something. Okay, so yeah,
but it was just so lovely and it was great
to see, great to see that maybe really happy.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
Nice. Yeah cool.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
What about you?

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
Well, I guess I'll just do I can do the
simple one of that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:11):
I get to write on Baskets this new season, which
is very exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
It's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
I love that job and I love the people that
work there, and it's just like a very very very cool.

Speaker 3 (01:39:24):
Room to work in.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
Yeah, and that's so great.

Speaker 3 (01:39:28):
So yeah, So that's it's even though it's hard to have.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
This is now a full time job at this podcast,
so to have two is challenging. But we've done it before.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
We have Okay, we're back, Karen. How do you feel
about the fact that in this episode you're getting another
writing job, You're picking up a new job.

Speaker 3 (01:39:52):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
It made me laugh so hard where it's just like
you were talking about it, just like they're gonna make
it work.

Speaker 3 (01:40:00):
They made it work before or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
We're just like, here comes the breaking point of like
I worked my whole life to be a sitcom writer.
It was finally happening, and it's like, but now you
have to quit because you have this other thing that
you never saw coming. Literally sitting in your Lau and like,
and you can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
You have to say no to one of I think
one of the best shows that's ever been on TV. Yeah,
have to say no to it. But I mean they
saying grace is that it's not a permanent It wasn't
a permanent job. It was you know, however many weeks, right,
so that was like the way you thought you could
get through it. But shit, man, it was hard.

Speaker 2 (01:40:38):
I mean it was hard for you and I everybody involved,
and just exhausting in general. And then also that's why
so many of my stories turned into me just retelling
I survive, because it was just this constant churn where
I'm like, yeah, I can't write up a whole new
story for myself this week.

Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
It's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
I mean the shit that we actually just did, because
it in front of us and we got it done,
it's pretty hilarious. It's like, looking back, it's laugh out
loud funny. But at the time we were just like, well,
this is just what we're gonna have to get done.

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Yeah, and it feels like, so we're in episode seventy three,
so it just kind of feels like we were just
white knuckling it and think, well, it feels like we
were we were growing so much and it was so
exciting that we were like high off of that. And
then there's a point, I think around now where we
start white knuckling it, and yeah, we kind of haven't
stopped doing that since.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
No, because every I mean, I was in a version
of show business for the for fifteen years prior, and
I would tell what I would tell you was what
I believed because for fifteen years, that's what I saw,
which is like, you can't don't ever make decisions like
this is going to go on forever, because when it stops,
you'll be fucked. So you have to pretend like it's

(01:41:51):
going to end soon. But there's another side to that,
which is like, well that isn't what's happening, and your
base setting up safety nets or like acting like that
and killing yourself because you have all these safety nets. Ye,
Like this success in this show is such an outlier
and we're so lucky. We're so lucky that I have

(01:42:15):
never believed in it, and I refuse to believe in it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:17):
Well, Vince and I were in couples therapy recently and
we were talking about like the tour right now, and
how stressle it is and everything, and it's been ten years.
And then I said, you know, this podcast feels like
something that happened to all of us, not that we did. Yes,
like it wasn't happening to us, which is we're so

(01:42:38):
lucky that it shows us. But it's yeah, definitely been
like a doubles AMEX kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:42:47):
Oh I thought you said doubles AMEX or I'm like,
do we get do we get double.

Speaker 3 (01:42:51):
Points for this shit? Oh my god, we're going.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
Flight to the moon because we have so many AMX points.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
All right, let's uh should we close this out?

Speaker 3 (01:43:03):
Let's close it out.

Speaker 2 (01:43:04):
So this episode was originally titled Chill Satanist, which we love, but.

Speaker 1 (01:43:09):
If we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it.

Speaker 3 (01:43:11):
I Love Jamestown, which is what Georgia says.

Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
Because she met Jonestown and because we're very tired, because
we're just human being.

Speaker 1 (01:43:20):
Thank you for making an excuse, but I am so Jamestown.
I am that's me, And then we could also name
it So Many Bad Carls.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
Yeah, that was kind of crazy how many bad carls
there were in this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:43:32):
Truly. Well, thanks so much for listening. To another episode
of rewind. We're going to go back to twenty seventeen
and let us say goodbye to you there, please, Well,
thanks for listening you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:43:45):
Yes, thank you. We hope everything it was great. I
help you.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
A very happy This has been my favorite murder you guys.
Thank you, Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
Bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:44:00):
Want a cookie

All Episodes

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 73: Chill Satanist

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Are You A Charlotte?

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 73: Chill Satanist