May 14, 2025 • 34 mins
The trial concludes and the jury reaches a verdict. Daisy’s loved ones grapple with its aftermath, and the defendant decides to speak on the record for the first time.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
A heads up. The second half of this episode includes
some descriptions of violence, including intimate partner violence. Please listen
with care. It was a Wednesday in May. Susie and
her cousin Mimi were huddled on a bench in the
hallway of the Compton Courthouse. It was the first day
(00:23):
of jury deliberations and Susie was nervous. She'd been there
all morning trying to pass the time, trying to distract herself.
She'd called up a cousin in Tijuana. They sent each
other funny voice memos, stupid stuff, she told me. In
a room nearby, the jury was weighing the evidence, discussing
(00:44):
the testimonies they'd heard over nearly the last two weeks,
deciding whether Victor had done the horrendous thing he'd been
accused of, first on social media and now in a
court of law. Around eleven forty am, Susie got a
text message. When she saw that it was from Leslie Hinshaw,
(01:04):
the prosecutor, her heart began racing. The message said the
jury has reached a verdict. They had deliberated for less
than three hours. Susie opened her mouth to share the news,
but she couldn't get the words out. She told me
that she felt like she was frozen. She was having
a panic attack. She'd been getting them a lot since
(01:26):
her daughter's murder a little more than a year earlier,
but never anything quite as bad, quite as debilitating as
this one. Right there in the hallway of the courthouse,
her face turned pale. Her cousin reminded her to breathe,
but all Susie wanted to do was scream to run away,
and the feeling only got more intense when the jurors
(01:48):
flooded out into the hallway. The elevator doors opened, and
the hallway filled with more people. There were newscasters and
camera crews, like this one from ABC seven.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
A verdict has been reached against a man accused of
killing his ex girlfriend. The suspect was captured after videos
on social media helped lead to his arrest in Mexico.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
There was a judge and the bailiff, and the clerk,
and a gaggle of sheriffs in uniform. They all filed
into the court room. Susie felt like she could barely breathe.
She watched as one of the jurors handed the judge
an envelope. The clerk brought a statement, and all Susie
could think was get to the point, Get to the point,
Get to the point. Finally, she heard the words.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We the jury and the above and titled action find
the defendant Victor Sosa guilty of the crime of the
murder of Daisy de la Oh.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Susie started crying and shaking when she heard it. She
squeezed her cousin Mimi's hand as hard as she could.
Relief washed over her. She could feel the members of
the jury looking at her, and to her, it felt
like they were looking at her with warmth, like they
were proud of this vision they'd made. Susie hugged Leslie,
the prosecutor. I have no words, she told her, but
(03:07):
thank you you fought so seriously for my kid. It
was May fourth, two and to Susie this date meant something.
She's a huge Star Wars fan, and as a lot
of Star Wars fans will probably tell you, May the
fourth sounds a lot like may the Force, you know,
May the Force be with you. But this day had
(03:30):
taken on a much bigger meaning for Susie. She told me,
today is going to be a good day to remember
justice prevailed today. Two days later, she went to the
Redondo Beach Pier, looking out over the ocean as the
wind tossled her hair. She recorded a video message for
the Justice for Daisy Instagram page.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I know a lot of you. I shares a story
on Facebook, Instagram and everything. There's no work, Honestly, I
have no words, no a month of time and money
that I could do to repay you, guys. Thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you as good
(04:13):
as yes.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Susie was grateful, but she didn't really feel like celebrating.
Nothing could get back what she'd already lost. Nothing could
change what had already happened. If anything, the verdict only
made her daughter's death feel more real or final. All
she wanted to do after the trial ended was go
home and watch television with her youngest son. It's the
(04:35):
little things you miss after all this chaos, she said.
But all this chaos wasn't over just yet. I'm Jen
Swan from London Audio iHeartRadio and executive producer Paris Hilton.
This is My Friend Daisy, Episode nine, After all this chaos.
(05:06):
Victor's sentencing hearing was held roughly five months after his
trial ended. It was October twelfth, twenty twenty two, and
Daisy's friends and family were nervous all over again, nervous
that after all this, after the tiktoks and the instagrams,
and the arrest and the courthouse protest and the testimonies,
(05:27):
and even the guilty verdict, Victor's sentence still wouldn't be
quite harsh enough. Everyone in the courtroom was fidgeting in
their seats, and then Susie got up and walked to
the front of the room to speak.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Good morning around good meeting people on the court.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Her voice grew shaky as she recounted the day she
had to identify Daisy's body, the day she said that
no mother should have to live through.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
I pay every day the parasite presents everything, the way
he viciously murdered her, and the way happy left her
exposed to the world.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Like she was nutty. I can't even imagine her last.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
Moments, and that horrible thought is in my head every
day I have to recognize my baby's body and.
Speaker 8 (06:29):
Tell my whole family that she was murdered, to tell
my mother, to tell my sons, to tell my whole
family what this must have done to my baby.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Nobody ever prepares.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
You for that, and nobody prepares you for every day
after that.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I cry every single day.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
A smell, a song, and anything reminds me of her,
My son. Us are diagnosed with depression, all consequences to
actions of this mother.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Susie's speech wasn't just about how Daisy's murder affected her
own family. It was also about its impact on Victor's family.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
To other trial, he showed no remorse and emotions to
me or even his mother.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
All families were destroyed that day because of him.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Well, I have.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
To keep my peace is that he remains behind bars
for the rest of his pathetic life, so he won't
hurt anybody again. No other mother, no child, no other brothers,
no other grandma.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Thank you for serving justice to my beautiful Daisy. I
would love her to the end of my day and
I could to see her again. Thank you her mother.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
The room was quiet, and then the judge announced Victor's sentence.
Speaker 9 (08:05):
That's account wijuries finding the murder in the first degree
says will be twenty five years to in prison.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
It's a life sentence at maximum, with parole eligibility after
the first twenty five years. I wanted to know what
the culmination of this case had felt like for Leslie Henshaw,
the Deputy district Attorney. She had won her case. It
had been, at least on paper, a victory, but it
(08:38):
didn't necessarily feel that way.
Speaker 10 (08:40):
When I get guilty verdicts, I don't. It's not a
celebration because in the end, there is somebody on the
other side who has ruined his life. And you know,
for me, it's it's all about consequences and accountability.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's what it's about.
Speaker 11 (08:59):
But but yeah, so, I mean I was I was
happy in the sense that the jury got the right
conclusion and I could provide Daisy's family with the closure
that they really deserved.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, it seems like so much of it is about closure, because,
like you said, it's so it's it almost feels like
there is no not to say, there is no justice.
But but but you know, it's not like anything will
bring Daisy back, right, And it seems like that's something
that you wrestle with too, is just like what is
the best possible outcome given the situation.
Speaker 10 (09:36):
Yeah, I mean, there have been times where I've had
cases where I felt a lot of compassion for the
defendants just in terms.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Of like.
Speaker 10 (09:51):
Why did you make these choices? You know, it's kind
of like what did you what did you go through
in your life that led you to this point where
you've made these choices that now you're going to be
locked up for the rest of your life, And that's
kind of like there's sort of a bit of exasperation
with that, like what happened?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
What happened? How could Victor have murdered Daisy with such brutality?
Where did that come from? And how could he have
shown no remorse? At trial? He was silent the whole
time in court. He didn't say anything at his sentencing
hearing either. So I tried to talk with his family
(10:35):
to try to answer that question what happened. I went
to see his mother, you might remember she declined to
speak with me. I also went to see his father.
His house was located on a dirt road and it
was surrounded by a chain link fence and guarded by
big growling dogs. And at one point someone did come out,
(10:59):
and it sound like they were yelling the name of
the dogs to try to tell them to like calm down.
And then at one point saw the blinds kind of
like open a little bit. It seemed like someone was
peering out, and so they knew we were there. There's
two cars outside the house, so I know someone's home.
And then they clearly just didn't want to come out
and talk to us. I guess I will take that
(11:20):
as a no comment. I left a letter in Victor's
dad's mailbox. I never heard back. I even went to
the house of another one of his relatives. It was
a place I had heard that Victor sometimes stayed, you know,
before he was arrested, and again this time I was
greeted by the sound of a dog barking. A woman's
(11:45):
voice appeared from beyond the metal security door. I couldn't
see her face, but she spent about twenty minutes talking
with me as we stood on either side of the doorframe.
She seemed wary of me, but at the same time,
it almost seemed like she was eager to tell me things,
like more than once she started sentences with did you know,
(12:06):
like did you know that Victor had a tattoo of
Daisy's face on his arm? No, I didn't, I said,
Or did you know that Victor's mother keeps a photo
of Daisy in her living room? No, I didn't. It
was obvious to me that she and Victor's mother both
cared deeply about Daisy, that they were devastated by her
(12:28):
murder and destroyed by the actions of the person who
had done it. This relative. I'm not using her name
because she didn't want to be recorded, and she wasn't
mentioned in the court documents. She told me that she
talked to Victor on the phone sometimes, that he'd found
God and seemed to be doing well in prison. She
encouraged me to get in touch with him, to let
(12:50):
him tell his side of the story. So I did.
I wrote him a letter. I explained that I was
making this show and that I had been talking to
people who knew him and people who knew Daisy. I
told him that I wanted to try to understand how
things ended up the way they did. I told him
that it would be a chance to say whatever he
(13:11):
had not been able to say before, either in court
or to the media, and for me, it was a
chance to get answers to some of the outstanding questions
I had, the questions that detectives never got to ask him.
I figured this was all a formality, that there was
no way that Victor would speak with me. I was wrong.
(13:35):
The letter arrived in the mail last fall. It came
in a white envelope stamped by the California Department of
Corrections and Rehabilitation. In the left hand corner there was
Victor's name and his prison ID number. His return address
was the RJ. Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego. It's
a sprawling compound wedged along the US border. It's actually
(13:58):
pretty close to where victim had been picked up by
a detective that Fourth of July weekend in twenty twenty one.
It's home to other convicted murders that you might have
heard of, like Lyle and Eric Menendez and Tex Watson.
He's a former member of the Manson family. Inside the
envelope there was a sheet of lined notebook paper. The
(14:19):
handwriting and pencil was neat and slanted to the left.
It read, I received your letter and I would like
to do your podcast. My heart raised a little when
I read this. Here was this person I had heard
so many horrific things about. I had seen images of
him all of our social media. I talked to people
who had spent all of this time and effort trying
(14:41):
to hunt him down, and now he was writing me
this letter by hand. In the letter, he instructed me
to download an app, which maybe sounds a little strange
if you don't know anyone in prison, but nearly all
incarcerated people in California and in more than two dozen
other states have access to tablet and these tablets often
(15:02):
have this messaging app installed. It's run by a private
company called Global Telllink. They contract with jails and prisons
all over the country. More than a million and a
half incarcerated people reportedly use it mostly to send texts
to people on the outside and to make video calls,
albeit really glitchy ones, but you know, calls. Nonetheless, I
(15:24):
added Victor as a contact on the app and we
set a time to talk. This was last September, on
the day before his twenty ninth birthday. I sat at
my desk and I waited for his face to appear
on my phone screen. When it did, I realized he
looked a lot different than the photos I'd seen of him,
and even from how he'd looked in person in the
(15:44):
courtroom in Compton. He looked a lot older, like he'd
put on some weight, and he wasn't at all like
detectives had described him. Detective Lugo had called him nonverbal.
But Victor had no problem carrying on a conversation with me,
except that he'd apparently changed his mind, because as we
(16:05):
began talking, he said he wasn't sure whether he really
did want to do this podcast. After all. I got
the sense that maybe he just wanted to talk to
me because he was bored, or because he thought that
it might help his chances of getting prolled. His first
parole hearing is tentatively scheduled for twenty thirty nine. At
that point, he will have spent seventeen years behind bars.
(16:26):
I called the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. They
told me that Victor had earned credits for good behavior
and for taking classes, and that had made him eligible
for a parole sooner. When I talked to Victor, it
seemed to me like he was trying to maintain his innocence.
He had never admitted to the murder, and I got
(16:46):
the sense that he wasn't about to that I wasn't
going to get a genuine answer to any of my questions,
so we hung up, and that was that. Six months later,
just as I was about to turn in this episode.
I got a message on the app. Victor had changed
his mind. He said he wanted to do the interview.
I wasn't sure whether to take it seriously. But then
(17:08):
I got a phone call.
Speaker 12 (17:09):
That's a globaltail link. You had a prepaid call from Victor,
an incarcrated individual. Lads the honorting kind of in correctional facility,
San Diego, California. Let's call and your telephone numbers? Were
they monitored and recorded?
Speaker 13 (17:30):
To accept this call?
Speaker 12 (17:31):
Say or dial five now? Thank you for using Global
tail Link.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
When I got the call from Victor, I decided to
get right into it. I had no time or interest
in small talk. I started by asking about the skateboard attack,
the attack that Daisy's younger brother had witnessed, the attack
that resulted in her getting stitches. I asked Victor what
happened that day?
Speaker 13 (17:59):
Yeah, I'm sure you heard about that. I do remember
what happened that day. We all are being an argument
over over.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I'll summarize what Victor said next. He's had They got
in a fight, essentially because of his jealousy. He thought
Daisy was texting somebody, and he flipped out He says
it got physical on both sides, but let's be real
that he was the one who ended up sending her
to the hospital. I didn't.
Speaker 13 (18:29):
I didn't hit her intentionally at the skateboard. I was
just trying to get away from her, like while she
was driving me, I was trying to shake her roof
and the way I was holding the skateboard like across
the forehead. I didn't either, like did it directly?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Okay? Yeah, it sounds like you hit her pretty hard.
Speaker 13 (18:55):
I mean I didn't. I didn't. I didn't want I
didn't like want to hit her like Okay, I was
just trying to escape from her career.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Well, it sounds like you would you had hit her
in the past as well, so that was an ongoing thing.
Would you would you describe have described yourself? It sounds
like you were you were a little jealous or possessive.
Does that sound right?
Speaker 13 (19:22):
I mean, she she would talk to she would have
a lot of friends, like guy friends, and she would
link up at the you had sixteen seconds remaining. Do
you want me to call you back?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Sure?
Speaker 13 (19:41):
Yeah, I'll call you right now.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Okay, This automated warning happened a lot. I guess you
get used to it after a while. That and then
this other automated warning that kept reminding us that our
call was being recorded and monitored by the state.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
Thank you for U being globe and killing.
Speaker 13 (20:01):
Okay, so kay, you asked that question.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, what I was saying is it sounds like there
was there was a history of violence. It wasn't just
that one time with the skateboard. It was a lot.
And it sounds like maybe you were a little bit
jealous or possessive. And I'm wondering if you would say
that's accurate, that's a.
Speaker 13 (20:24):
Good way to put it. I ad met I was jealous.
Oh I would I would go through her phone and
find things I was doing the Paris. I was feeling
jealous procure throughout the whole relationship. I felt like I
(20:48):
wasn't good enough, and I asked Shita seek out.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So it sounds like you have regrets about that.
Speaker 13 (21:03):
I do. I do because to someone I really cared
about that I thought was someone I could count count on.
Speaker 14 (21:14):
And like someone I could trust. And I felt like this.
Speaker 13 (21:21):
Was the most important person in my life because in
my life, uh, I didn't have any relationships with anybody
like even with my family, I felt alone. So this
is a person that feels that that void and someone
I could look for, look up to, like like as
(21:45):
a partner, and like I felt love somewhere. Every day,
I Uh, every day I wake up, I feel regretful.
I feel depressed that that I I took someone's life
(22:05):
and I wish I could take it back and and
not do things that that had happened that night. Again,
I I wish I wouldn't say help. I have dreams
of like saving her life, saving Daisy's life, that of
(22:28):
you know, taking it. And then I wake up and
I felt like like photo trashed, Like I just wish
I could have I could have been someone better to her.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Mmm. And and why why did you kill her? H?
Speaker 13 (22:55):
Can we can we take a step back for a second,
and like, I know you had wanted to ask me,
well we did that night?
Speaker 15 (23:06):
Yeah, so like yeah, maybe to get to that question
and I did.
Speaker 13 (23:17):
Can you ask me another question for now?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah? So it's my understanding that that she broke things
off with you just a few weeks before she was killed.
Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 13 (23:36):
I remember she had she told me she'd seen someone
one night, and I had said things to her through
the phone that she felt some tip a way, she
didn't want to see me, So I bagged her, please,
like tell me workings out, and I remember wanted him
(24:00):
to get back with her, and she didn't want yourself
crying for her, and I was like having a mental breakdown,
like I felt like like I was alone, felt like
something was working now, and I didn't know what I
was doing wrong. And I just asked her like like
(24:21):
the fleet taking back. She didn't want me back, and
I didn't know how to accept that. So she did
call and break up with me before ill before that happened.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Is that something that we can come back to, is
what happened that night? M M yeah, okay, So it's
it's my understanding that that night that night you had
texted her and said I have something for you. Is
that right?
Speaker 13 (25:02):
Yeah, that's crazy, I tell it crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I'll summarize what he said next, which is that he
brought her some of his old T shirts that she liked.
They had the Thrasher logo on them, you know, the
skateboarding magazine. They stood there in that patch of dirt
near the alley, and he and Daisy had a discussion
about their breakup. Long story short, he wanted to get
(25:27):
back together, she didn't, and then, as it often did,
it became physical.
Speaker 13 (25:36):
I was strung denial and both like feeling very depressed,
a cricter and a the binger, like bleaching your bag.
And she had annoyed or like should annoyed by the
area by that time.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
In Victor's version of events, events which of course cannot
be verified because only he lived to tell them, Daisy
took a swing at him and he became overcome with rage,
the kind of rage that caused him to do something
he says he will always regret.
Speaker 13 (26:17):
I grabbed her for the ally and let her go.
She fell on the crown and I turned around and
I was going to walk away, and I was like,
what did I do? What did I do? And I
(26:44):
guess I was talk Katie and I felt a little
angry and it was nice right there on the gas
the guys gas pain. I picked it up.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
When Victor says that he grabbed Daisy and she fell
to the ground, what he says he means is that
he choked her, and as she tried to catch her breath,
he says he considered turning away. He should have turned away. Instead,
he spotted a knife, a knife sitting on a gas tank.
Speaker 13 (27:28):
I don't, I don't, I don't want to say it said.
Speaker 14 (27:36):
Right still, I feel it's still like.
Speaker 13 (27:40):
Fresh to me in life. I'll still hurt by it,
like about my action. And I understand that it was
it wasn't right to do that, and I understand the
pain that oh, I feel like the pain her mom kills,
(28:04):
her brother's father, family, father's friends, everyone is affected by it.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
And h.
Speaker 13 (28:15):
It's just there's so hard to talk about. I'm just.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Pop right there, okay, And what what is your understanding
of their pain? You know? Is it is it based
on what you heard in the court or how how
do you understand it?
Speaker 7 (28:38):
Well?
Speaker 13 (28:39):
In court, I heard your mom talk talk about me
like all your heart side, kind of like what you
want tell me before I got that.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
It's a little hard to hear Victor's audio here, but
what he's saying is that he remembers Daisy's and speaking
about him in court. These are the recordings that you
heard earlier in this episode when Daisy's mother called him
a parasite, a monster.
Speaker 13 (29:09):
And I understand that they're her and howid anger against
the error herself. I'll have a way against the air.
I just party that that be fine, fine reassurance like
(29:31):
at previous three, if they could forgive me h I'm
very sorry for what happening.
Speaker 12 (29:41):
Let's call Andrew are telling phone number. We'll be monitored
and recorded.
Speaker 13 (29:46):
I wish I could take it back.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (29:52):
I just hope that an anyone hearing this podcast and
it's going through the same thing about I do, if
they just seek help better himself and know that hardly
someone is He's never the answer, He's just hardly one
that that's around you, Harry. One gets effected by it,
(30:18):
not only one person or for you. Everyone gets affected. Yeah,
I like just I'm forever sorry.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Ever since Victor had written me that letter, I had
embracing myself for the possibility that he was going to
insist on his innocence. So a part of me was
relieved to hear him confess, to finally admit what Daisy's
friends and family had known all along. He had taken
Daisy's life. He murdered her because he said he felt alone,
(30:53):
because he had no other relationships, because he could not
handle the rejection of a breakup. All of this pain
all the suffering, all of this tragedy, it all seemed
to stem in some ways from insecurity, from jealousy. So
what happened, What happened was, in some ways just as
(31:15):
Susie had imagined. It was both as simple and as
devastating as what she told the judge at Victor's sentencing,
caring he.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Knew by outgrew him, he knew like Dacy didn't want
him anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
When I first interviewed Susie, even before the trial, she said,
if I have to be sixty seventy eighty years old
at the Pearole hearings, then I will do that. I'll
be there. He's always going to see my face always
next time. On the series finale of My Friend Daisy,
(31:53):
a search for answers about what happened in Mexico and
an update on Jeffrey's case. I no, I mean, yeah, damn,
how freaky. I remember.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I remember walking the kid into the courtroom like right,
like Keith, like the key with my kid, like you know, hey,
don't orro by it.
Speaker 13 (32:14):
You'll be good.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's that's messed up. Hi, everyone, this is Paris. Thanks
for listening to My Friend Daisy. If you are someone
you love is experiencing abuse. You are not alone. Help
is available twenty four to seven. Contact the National Domestic
Violence Hotline for free confidential support. Call eight hundred seven
nine to nine seven two three three, text start to
(32:38):
eight eight seven eight eight, or visit the hotline dot
org your safety matters reach out today.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
My Friend Daisy is a production of London Audio with
support from Sony Music Entertainment. It's reported, written and executive
produced by me Jen Swan. I'm also your host. Our
executive producers for London Audio are Paris Hilton, Bruce Gersh
Bruce Robertson and Joanna Studebaker. Our executive producer for Sony
(33:12):
Music Entertainment is Jonathan Hirsch. Our associate producer is Zoe Colchin.
Production assistants and translations by Miguel Contreras, Sound design, composing
and mixing by Hans Dale. She Tracy Lee fact checked
this episode. Our head of production is Sammy Allison and
(33:32):
our production manager is Tamika Balance Colosny Special thanks to
Steve Akerman, Emily Rossick and Jamie Myers at Sony, Ben
Goldberg and Orley Greenberg at Uta, and Jen Ortiz at
the Cut
A heads up. The second half of this episode includes
some descriptions of violence, including intimate partner violence. Please listen
with care. It was a Wednesday in May. Susie and
her cousin Mimi were huddled on a bench in the
hallway of the Compton Courthouse. It was the first day
(00:23):
of jury deliberations and Susie was nervous. She'd been there
all morning trying to pass the time, trying to distract herself.
She'd called up a cousin in Tijuana. They sent each
other funny voice memos, stupid stuff, she told me. In
a room nearby, the jury was weighing the evidence, discussing
(00:44):
the testimonies they'd heard over nearly the last two weeks,
deciding whether Victor had done the horrendous thing he'd been
accused of, first on social media and now in a
court of law. Around eleven forty am, Susie got a
text message. When she saw that it was from Leslie Hinshaw,
(01:04):
the prosecutor, her heart began racing. The message said the
jury has reached a verdict. They had deliberated for less
than three hours. Susie opened her mouth to share the news,
but she couldn't get the words out. She told me
that she felt like she was frozen. She was having
a panic attack. She'd been getting them a lot since
(01:26):
her daughter's murder a little more than a year earlier,
but never anything quite as bad, quite as debilitating as
this one. Right there in the hallway of the courthouse,
her face turned pale. Her cousin reminded her to breathe,
but all Susie wanted to do was scream to run away,
and the feeling only got more intense when the jurors
(01:48):
flooded out into the hallway. The elevator doors opened, and
the hallway filled with more people. There were newscasters and
camera crews, like this one from ABC seven.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
A verdict has been reached against a man accused of
killing his ex girlfriend. The suspect was captured after videos
on social media helped lead to his arrest in Mexico.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
There was a judge and the bailiff, and the clerk,
and a gaggle of sheriffs in uniform. They all filed
into the court room. Susie felt like she could barely breathe.
She watched as one of the jurors handed the judge
an envelope. The clerk brought a statement, and all Susie
could think was get to the point, Get to the point,
Get to the point. Finally, she heard the words.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We the jury and the above and titled action find
the defendant Victor Sosa guilty of the crime of the
murder of Daisy de la Oh.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Susie started crying and shaking when she heard it. She
squeezed her cousin Mimi's hand as hard as she could.
Relief washed over her. She could feel the members of
the jury looking at her, and to her, it felt
like they were looking at her with warmth, like they
were proud of this vision they'd made. Susie hugged Leslie,
the prosecutor. I have no words, she told her, but
(03:07):
thank you you fought so seriously for my kid. It
was May fourth, two and to Susie this date meant something.
She's a huge Star Wars fan, and as a lot
of Star Wars fans will probably tell you, May the
fourth sounds a lot like may the Force, you know,
May the Force be with you. But this day had
(03:30):
taken on a much bigger meaning for Susie. She told me,
today is going to be a good day to remember
justice prevailed today. Two days later, she went to the
Redondo Beach Pier, looking out over the ocean as the
wind tossled her hair. She recorded a video message for
the Justice for Daisy Instagram page.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
I know a lot of you. I shares a story
on Facebook, Instagram and everything. There's no work, Honestly, I
have no words, no a month of time and money
that I could do to repay you, guys. Thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you as good
(04:13):
as yes.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Susie was grateful, but she didn't really feel like celebrating.
Nothing could get back what she'd already lost. Nothing could
change what had already happened. If anything, the verdict only
made her daughter's death feel more real or final. All
she wanted to do after the trial ended was go
home and watch television with her youngest son. It's the
(04:35):
little things you miss after all this chaos, she said.
But all this chaos wasn't over just yet. I'm Jen
Swan from London Audio iHeartRadio and executive producer Paris Hilton.
This is My Friend Daisy, Episode nine, After all this chaos.
(05:06):
Victor's sentencing hearing was held roughly five months after his
trial ended. It was October twelfth, twenty twenty two, and
Daisy's friends and family were nervous all over again, nervous
that after all this, after the tiktoks and the instagrams,
and the arrest and the courthouse protest and the testimonies,
(05:27):
and even the guilty verdict, Victor's sentence still wouldn't be
quite harsh enough. Everyone in the courtroom was fidgeting in
their seats, and then Susie got up and walked to
the front of the room to speak.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
Good morning around good meeting people on the court.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Her voice grew shaky as she recounted the day she
had to identify Daisy's body, the day she said that
no mother should have to live through.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
I pay every day the parasite presents everything, the way
he viciously murdered her, and the way happy left her
exposed to the world.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Like she was nutty. I can't even imagine her last.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
Moments, and that horrible thought is in my head every
day I have to recognize my baby's body and.
Speaker 8 (06:29):
Tell my whole family that she was murdered, to tell
my mother, to tell my sons, to tell my whole
family what this must have done to my baby.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Nobody ever prepares.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
You for that, and nobody prepares you for every day
after that.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
I cry every single day.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
A smell, a song, and anything reminds me of her,
My son. Us are diagnosed with depression, all consequences to
actions of this mother.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Susie's speech wasn't just about how Daisy's murder affected her
own family. It was also about its impact on Victor's family.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
To other trial, he showed no remorse and emotions to
me or even his mother.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
All families were destroyed that day because of him.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Well, I have.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
To keep my peace is that he remains behind bars
for the rest of his pathetic life, so he won't
hurt anybody again. No other mother, no child, no other brothers,
no other grandma.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Thank you for serving justice to my beautiful Daisy. I
would love her to the end of my day and
I could to see her again. Thank you her mother.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
The room was quiet, and then the judge announced Victor's sentence.
Speaker 9 (08:05):
That's account wijuries finding the murder in the first degree
says will be twenty five years to in prison.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
It's a life sentence at maximum, with parole eligibility after
the first twenty five years. I wanted to know what
the culmination of this case had felt like for Leslie Henshaw,
the Deputy district Attorney. She had won her case. It
had been, at least on paper, a victory, but it
(08:38):
didn't necessarily feel that way.
Speaker 10 (08:40):
When I get guilty verdicts, I don't. It's not a
celebration because in the end, there is somebody on the
other side who has ruined his life. And you know,
for me, it's it's all about consequences and accountability.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's what it's about.
Speaker 11 (08:59):
But but yeah, so, I mean I was I was
happy in the sense that the jury got the right
conclusion and I could provide Daisy's family with the closure
that they really deserved.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah, it seems like so much of it is about closure, because,
like you said, it's so it's it almost feels like
there is no not to say, there is no justice.
But but but you know, it's not like anything will
bring Daisy back, right, And it seems like that's something
that you wrestle with too, is just like what is
the best possible outcome given the situation.
Speaker 10 (09:36):
Yeah, I mean, there have been times where I've had
cases where I felt a lot of compassion for the
defendants just in terms.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Of like.
Speaker 10 (09:51):
Why did you make these choices? You know, it's kind
of like what did you what did you go through
in your life that led you to this point where
you've made these choices that now you're going to be
locked up for the rest of your life, And that's
kind of like there's sort of a bit of exasperation
with that, like what happened?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
What happened? How could Victor have murdered Daisy with such brutality?
Where did that come from? And how could he have
shown no remorse? At trial? He was silent the whole
time in court. He didn't say anything at his sentencing
hearing either. So I tried to talk with his family
(10:35):
to try to answer that question what happened. I went
to see his mother, you might remember she declined to
speak with me. I also went to see his father.
His house was located on a dirt road and it
was surrounded by a chain link fence and guarded by
big growling dogs. And at one point someone did come out,
(10:59):
and it sound like they were yelling the name of
the dogs to try to tell them to like calm down.
And then at one point saw the blinds kind of
like open a little bit. It seemed like someone was
peering out, and so they knew we were there. There's
two cars outside the house, so I know someone's home.
And then they clearly just didn't want to come out
and talk to us. I guess I will take that
(11:20):
as a no comment. I left a letter in Victor's
dad's mailbox. I never heard back. I even went to
the house of another one of his relatives. It was
a place I had heard that Victor sometimes stayed, you know,
before he was arrested, and again this time I was
greeted by the sound of a dog barking. A woman's
(11:45):
voice appeared from beyond the metal security door. I couldn't
see her face, but she spent about twenty minutes talking
with me as we stood on either side of the doorframe.
She seemed wary of me, but at the same time,
it almost seemed like she was eager to tell me things,
like more than once she started sentences with did you know,
(12:06):
like did you know that Victor had a tattoo of
Daisy's face on his arm? No, I didn't, I said,
Or did you know that Victor's mother keeps a photo
of Daisy in her living room? No, I didn't. It
was obvious to me that she and Victor's mother both
cared deeply about Daisy, that they were devastated by her
(12:28):
murder and destroyed by the actions of the person who
had done it. This relative. I'm not using her name
because she didn't want to be recorded, and she wasn't
mentioned in the court documents. She told me that she
talked to Victor on the phone sometimes, that he'd found
God and seemed to be doing well in prison. She
encouraged me to get in touch with him, to let
(12:50):
him tell his side of the story. So I did.
I wrote him a letter. I explained that I was
making this show and that I had been talking to
people who knew him and people who knew Daisy. I
told him that I wanted to try to understand how
things ended up the way they did. I told him
that it would be a chance to say whatever he
(13:11):
had not been able to say before, either in court
or to the media, and for me, it was a
chance to get answers to some of the outstanding questions
I had, the questions that detectives never got to ask him.
I figured this was all a formality, that there was
no way that Victor would speak with me. I was wrong.
(13:35):
The letter arrived in the mail last fall. It came
in a white envelope stamped by the California Department of
Corrections and Rehabilitation. In the left hand corner there was
Victor's name and his prison ID number. His return address
was the RJ. Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego. It's
a sprawling compound wedged along the US border. It's actually
(13:58):
pretty close to where victim had been picked up by
a detective that Fourth of July weekend in twenty twenty one.
It's home to other convicted murders that you might have
heard of, like Lyle and Eric Menendez and Tex Watson.
He's a former member of the Manson family. Inside the
envelope there was a sheet of lined notebook paper. The
(14:19):
handwriting and pencil was neat and slanted to the left.
It read, I received your letter and I would like
to do your podcast. My heart raised a little when
I read this. Here was this person I had heard
so many horrific things about. I had seen images of
him all of our social media. I talked to people
who had spent all of this time and effort trying
(14:41):
to hunt him down, and now he was writing me
this letter by hand. In the letter, he instructed me
to download an app, which maybe sounds a little strange
if you don't know anyone in prison, but nearly all
incarcerated people in California and in more than two dozen
other states have access to tablet and these tablets often
(15:02):
have this messaging app installed. It's run by a private
company called Global Telllink. They contract with jails and prisons
all over the country. More than a million and a
half incarcerated people reportedly use it mostly to send texts
to people on the outside and to make video calls,
albeit really glitchy ones, but you know, calls. Nonetheless, I
(15:24):
added Victor as a contact on the app and we
set a time to talk. This was last September, on
the day before his twenty ninth birthday. I sat at
my desk and I waited for his face to appear
on my phone screen. When it did, I realized he
looked a lot different than the photos I'd seen of him,
and even from how he'd looked in person in the
(15:44):
courtroom in Compton. He looked a lot older, like he'd
put on some weight, and he wasn't at all like
detectives had described him. Detective Lugo had called him nonverbal.
But Victor had no problem carrying on a conversation with me,
except that he'd apparently changed his mind, because as we
(16:05):
began talking, he said he wasn't sure whether he really
did want to do this podcast. After all. I got
the sense that maybe he just wanted to talk to
me because he was bored, or because he thought that
it might help his chances of getting prolled. His first
parole hearing is tentatively scheduled for twenty thirty nine. At
that point, he will have spent seventeen years behind bars.
(16:26):
I called the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. They
told me that Victor had earned credits for good behavior
and for taking classes, and that had made him eligible
for a parole sooner. When I talked to Victor, it
seemed to me like he was trying to maintain his innocence.
He had never admitted to the murder, and I got
(16:46):
the sense that he wasn't about to that I wasn't
going to get a genuine answer to any of my questions,
so we hung up, and that was that. Six months later,
just as I was about to turn in this episode.
I got a message on the app. Victor had changed
his mind. He said he wanted to do the interview.
I wasn't sure whether to take it seriously. But then
(17:08):
I got a phone call.
Speaker 12 (17:09):
That's a globaltail link. You had a prepaid call from Victor,
an incarcrated individual. Lads the honorting kind of in correctional facility,
San Diego, California. Let's call and your telephone numbers? Were
they monitored and recorded?
Speaker 13 (17:30):
To accept this call?
Speaker 12 (17:31):
Say or dial five now? Thank you for using Global
tail Link.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
When I got the call from Victor, I decided to
get right into it. I had no time or interest
in small talk. I started by asking about the skateboard attack,
the attack that Daisy's younger brother had witnessed, the attack
that resulted in her getting stitches. I asked Victor what
happened that day?
Speaker 13 (17:59):
Yeah, I'm sure you heard about that. I do remember
what happened that day. We all are being an argument
over over.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I'll summarize what Victor said next. He's had They got
in a fight, essentially because of his jealousy. He thought
Daisy was texting somebody, and he flipped out He says
it got physical on both sides, but let's be real
that he was the one who ended up sending her
to the hospital. I didn't.
Speaker 13 (18:29):
I didn't hit her intentionally at the skateboard. I was
just trying to get away from her, like while she
was driving me, I was trying to shake her roof
and the way I was holding the skateboard like across
the forehead. I didn't either, like did it directly?
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Okay? Yeah, it sounds like you hit her pretty hard.
Speaker 13 (18:55):
I mean I didn't. I didn't. I didn't want I
didn't like want to hit her like Okay, I was
just trying to escape from her career.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Well, it sounds like you would you had hit her
in the past as well, so that was an ongoing thing.
Would you would you describe have described yourself? It sounds
like you were you were a little jealous or possessive.
Does that sound right?
Speaker 13 (19:22):
I mean, she she would talk to she would have
a lot of friends, like guy friends, and she would
link up at the you had sixteen seconds remaining. Do
you want me to call you back?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Sure?
Speaker 13 (19:41):
Yeah, I'll call you right now.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Okay, This automated warning happened a lot. I guess you
get used to it after a while. That and then
this other automated warning that kept reminding us that our
call was being recorded and monitored by the state.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
Thank you for U being globe and killing.
Speaker 13 (20:01):
Okay, so kay, you asked that question.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, what I was saying is it sounds like there
was there was a history of violence. It wasn't just
that one time with the skateboard. It was a lot.
And it sounds like maybe you were a little bit
jealous or possessive. And I'm wondering if you would say
that's accurate, that's a.
Speaker 13 (20:24):
Good way to put it. I ad met I was jealous.
Oh I would I would go through her phone and
find things I was doing the Paris. I was feeling
jealous procure throughout the whole relationship. I felt like I
(20:48):
wasn't good enough, and I asked Shita seek out.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
So it sounds like you have regrets about that.
Speaker 13 (21:03):
I do. I do because to someone I really cared
about that I thought was someone I could count count on.
Speaker 14 (21:14):
And like someone I could trust. And I felt like this.
Speaker 13 (21:21):
Was the most important person in my life because in
my life, uh, I didn't have any relationships with anybody
like even with my family, I felt alone. So this
is a person that feels that that void and someone
I could look for, look up to, like like as
(21:45):
a partner, and like I felt love somewhere. Every day,
I Uh, every day I wake up, I feel regretful.
I feel depressed that that I I took someone's life
(22:05):
and I wish I could take it back and and
not do things that that had happened that night. Again,
I I wish I wouldn't say help. I have dreams
of like saving her life, saving Daisy's life, that of
(22:28):
you know, taking it. And then I wake up and
I felt like like photo trashed, Like I just wish
I could have I could have been someone better to her.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Mmm. And and why why did you kill her? H?
Speaker 13 (22:55):
Can we can we take a step back for a second,
and like, I know you had wanted to ask me,
well we did that night?
Speaker 15 (23:06):
Yeah, so like yeah, maybe to get to that question
and I did.
Speaker 13 (23:17):
Can you ask me another question for now?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah? So it's my understanding that that she broke things
off with you just a few weeks before she was killed.
Is that correct? Yes?
Speaker 13 (23:36):
I remember she had she told me she'd seen someone
one night, and I had said things to her through
the phone that she felt some tip a way, she
didn't want to see me, So I bagged her, please,
like tell me workings out, and I remember wanted him
(24:00):
to get back with her, and she didn't want yourself
crying for her, and I was like having a mental breakdown,
like I felt like like I was alone, felt like
something was working now, and I didn't know what I
was doing wrong. And I just asked her like like
(24:21):
the fleet taking back. She didn't want me back, and
I didn't know how to accept that. So she did
call and break up with me before ill before that happened.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Is that something that we can come back to, is
what happened that night? M M yeah, okay, So it's
it's my understanding that that night that night you had
texted her and said I have something for you. Is
that right?
Speaker 13 (25:02):
Yeah, that's crazy, I tell it crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I'll summarize what he said next, which is that he
brought her some of his old T shirts that she liked.
They had the Thrasher logo on them, you know, the
skateboarding magazine. They stood there in that patch of dirt
near the alley, and he and Daisy had a discussion
about their breakup. Long story short, he wanted to get
(25:27):
back together, she didn't, and then, as it often did,
it became physical.
Speaker 13 (25:36):
I was strung denial and both like feeling very depressed,
a cricter and a the binger, like bleaching your bag.
And she had annoyed or like should annoyed by the
area by that time.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
In Victor's version of events, events which of course cannot
be verified because only he lived to tell them, Daisy
took a swing at him and he became overcome with rage,
the kind of rage that caused him to do something
he says he will always regret.
Speaker 13 (26:17):
I grabbed her for the ally and let her go.
She fell on the crown and I turned around and
I was going to walk away, and I was like,
what did I do? What did I do? And I
(26:44):
guess I was talk Katie and I felt a little
angry and it was nice right there on the gas
the guys gas pain. I picked it up.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
When Victor says that he grabbed Daisy and she fell
to the ground, what he says he means is that
he choked her, and as she tried to catch her breath,
he says he considered turning away. He should have turned away. Instead,
he spotted a knife, a knife sitting on a gas tank.
Speaker 13 (27:28):
I don't, I don't, I don't want to say it said.
Speaker 14 (27:36):
Right still, I feel it's still like.
Speaker 13 (27:40):
Fresh to me in life. I'll still hurt by it,
like about my action. And I understand that it was
it wasn't right to do that, and I understand the
pain that oh, I feel like the pain her mom kills,
(28:04):
her brother's father, family, father's friends, everyone is affected by it.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
And h.
Speaker 13 (28:15):
It's just there's so hard to talk about. I'm just.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Pop right there, okay, And what what is your understanding
of their pain? You know? Is it is it based
on what you heard in the court or how how
do you understand it?
Speaker 7 (28:38):
Well?
Speaker 13 (28:39):
In court, I heard your mom talk talk about me
like all your heart side, kind of like what you
want tell me before I got that.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
It's a little hard to hear Victor's audio here, but
what he's saying is that he remembers Daisy's and speaking
about him in court. These are the recordings that you
heard earlier in this episode when Daisy's mother called him
a parasite, a monster.
Speaker 13 (29:09):
And I understand that they're her and howid anger against
the error herself. I'll have a way against the air.
I just party that that be fine, fine reassurance like
(29:31):
at previous three, if they could forgive me h I'm
very sorry for what happening.
Speaker 12 (29:41):
Let's call Andrew are telling phone number. We'll be monitored
and recorded.
Speaker 13 (29:46):
I wish I could take it back.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (29:52):
I just hope that an anyone hearing this podcast and
it's going through the same thing about I do, if
they just seek help better himself and know that hardly
someone is He's never the answer, He's just hardly one
that that's around you, Harry. One gets effected by it,
(30:18):
not only one person or for you. Everyone gets affected. Yeah,
I like just I'm forever sorry.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Ever since Victor had written me that letter, I had
embracing myself for the possibility that he was going to
insist on his innocence. So a part of me was
relieved to hear him confess, to finally admit what Daisy's
friends and family had known all along. He had taken
Daisy's life. He murdered her because he said he felt alone,
(30:53):
because he had no other relationships, because he could not
handle the rejection of a breakup. All of this pain
all the suffering, all of this tragedy, it all seemed
to stem in some ways from insecurity, from jealousy. So
what happened, What happened was, in some ways just as
(31:15):
Susie had imagined. It was both as simple and as
devastating as what she told the judge at Victor's sentencing,
caring he.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Knew by outgrew him, he knew like Dacy didn't want
him anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
When I first interviewed Susie, even before the trial, she said,
if I have to be sixty seventy eighty years old
at the Pearole hearings, then I will do that. I'll
be there. He's always going to see my face always
next time. On the series finale of My Friend Daisy,
(31:53):
a search for answers about what happened in Mexico and
an update on Jeffrey's case. I no, I mean, yeah, damn,
how freaky. I remember.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
I remember walking the kid into the courtroom like right,
like Keith, like the key with my kid, like you know, hey,
don't orro by it.
Speaker 13 (32:14):
You'll be good.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's that's messed up. Hi, everyone, this is Paris. Thanks
for listening to My Friend Daisy. If you are someone
you love is experiencing abuse. You are not alone. Help
is available twenty four to seven. Contact the National Domestic
Violence Hotline for free confidential support. Call eight hundred seven
nine to nine seven two three three, text start to
(32:38):
eight eight seven eight eight, or visit the hotline dot
org your safety matters reach out today.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
My Friend Daisy is a production of London Audio with
support from Sony Music Entertainment. It's reported, written and executive
produced by me Jen Swan. I'm also your host. Our
executive producers for London Audio are Paris Hilton, Bruce Gersh
Bruce Robertson and Joanna Studebaker. Our executive producer for Sony
(33:12):
Music Entertainment is Jonathan Hirsch. Our associate producer is Zoe Colchin.
Production assistants and translations by Miguel Contreras, Sound design, composing
and mixing by Hans Dale. She Tracy Lee fact checked
this episode. Our head of production is Sammy Allison and
(33:32):
our production manager is Tamika Balance Colosny Special thanks to
Steve Akerman, Emily Rossick and Jamie Myers at Sony, Ben
Goldberg and Orley Greenberg at Uta, and Jen Ortiz at
the Cut
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