July 29, 2025 • 21 mins
What if chasing happiness is actually keeping us from what we truly need?
In this special Best of My Legacy episode, hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger dive into the deeper truth behind a fulfilled life – what it is, what gets in the way, and how we can build it.
You’ll hear:
- Dr. Sanjay Gupta on how attitude, empathy, and reciprocal altruism change our biology and fuel true well-being
- Mel Robbins on escaping the “happiness trap” and learning to live for meaning, not milestones
- Jay Shetty & Radhi Devlukia on how to reconnect with yourself, your community, and something greater
- Martin Sheen on finding joy in the face of darkness—and the campaign trail moment that gave him hope for America
- And in a special sneak peek at Season 2, Simon Sinek shares why most of us lack the skills to be a true friend ... and how building real connection is the key to fulfillment
This is your invitation to stop chasing the next achievement and start living the life that matters most.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
And if you ask the best couples, like the couples
that we look at and admire and be like, I
want a marriage like theirs, And if you ask them,
what's your secret? They all say the same thing, It's
hard work. Can we do the work? And I don't
know anybody in friendship who says friendship is hard work?
Can we do the work? So I think one of
the reasons we have so much disconnection in the world
is we actually are not very good at the skill
of being a friend. You know, would you cancel in
(00:23):
a friend for a meeting? Would you cancel in a
meeting for a friend?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That was New York Times best selling author Simon Sinek
offering his take on what we're getting wrong in our
pursuit of a fulfilled life. What does it take to
stop chasing happiness and start living with deeper purpose? In
this best of episode of My Legacy, hosts Martin Luther
King the Third, Andrea Waters, King, Mark Kilberger, and Craig
Kilberger explore the power of fulfillment, how to find it,
(00:48):
how to share it, and how to build a life
around it. You'll hear Simon Sinek with a special peak
of season two on why fulfillment isn't a destination, it's
something you build. Mel Robbins on escaping the happiness trap
and learning to find meaning in the every day. Jay Shetty,
I'm creating connection and the chaos of everyday life. And
Martin Sheen on the joy he saw on the campaign
(01:09):
trail and the hope he still sees in people no
matter how dark the world gets. But first up, doctor
Santekuta on the science behind feeling good, starting with a
shift to the way you think, not just the way
you live.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
So in a culture that is so focused on, you know,
chasing happiness, we often overlook what truly makes life for
feeling So, in your view, what creates a life of
real fulfillment.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I'll make my answer very simple. I feel like I
got really lucky in life, and I don't know that
I deserved it, but I got lucky. I have a
great life, and I think my fulfillment is to constantly
be a source of good energy for people. Wow, to
just walk into every situation, every interaction and sharing good
(02:02):
energy is a really powerful thing. You know. It's not
as objective as money or something like that, but just
to bring good energy to someone's life, and because I
was blessed with it, and so I want to give
it away. I also think, as I talked about in
the book, that there's a component of reciprocal altruism there.
(02:24):
It feels good to do good. This seems almost anti
evolutionary in a way because it was always the survival
of the fittest and everything, so it's got to keep
mine and you know, but yet we evolved as humans
to feel good when we did good, Like where did
that come from? And it's true. I think everybody would agree,
anybody that if you do something nice for somebody, you
(02:44):
actually feel really good about it. And so that's it
for me. I don't think a lot again about legacy,
but the idea that genuinely bring good energy into every situation,
make people feel good around you, take the time to listen.
Empathy is not a weakness. Empathy sometimes seen as a
weakness nowadays. When did that happen? It was always a
(03:04):
strength when I was growing up, you know, But now
it's almost seen as a weakness. So change that narrative.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Well said, you've written and spoken extensively about longevity and aging,
and you've said something we love that if you could
go back and talk to your younger self, you would
talk about two really critical things. One is take time
to talk to people from older generations really cool, and
two attitude matters. So can you just explain to us
(03:31):
a little bit about why those two reflections are so important?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, I think when it comes to talking to people
of older generations, you know, I think this is a
sense that you have to experience many of these things yourself,
and I think there's a lot of truth to that.
One of my favorite books is Saddartha by Hermann Hesse,
and I think to distill that message down, It's like
there are a lot of lessons to be learned in life,
but some of them you just have to learn yourself.
(03:58):
You have to go through the experience to learn it yourself.
People can tell you, but it can't really be taught.
You have to experience. But for a lot of other things,
they're hacks. I feel like, you know, things that my
dad probably thought of at the exact same age that
I was thinking of, or my grandfather, and instead of saying, hey, look,
let me just you know, fumble the ball and make
(04:20):
the mistakes, Like can I just ask them, what did
you prioritize At this point in life, when did you
start to shift your priorities? How did you save money,
you know, just whatever it might be, from very practical
things to more philosophical things. I think was really important.
I also found that it made me feel good to
have those conversations with them, and it made them feel good.
(04:41):
This is this component of reciprocal altruism. We have a
lot of knowledge about our own personal biology now, and
I think the idea that we think about affecting our
biology through extraneous methods, through pills that you take, medications, procedures,
things like that. One of the really interesting sort of
(05:04):
revelations and science is that we can actively change our
biology by our thinking. And we kind of thought that
if you're optimistic, you're gonna feel better, you're gonna heal better,
you're gonna recover more quickly from things. We kind of
knew that, But now we can measure it, and we
can see cells changing. We can see the increase in
tumor necrosis factor cells that bust cancer, cells that boost
(05:28):
your immune system, purely by thinking about it. And so
attitude matters. Attitude matters. It matters when it comes to pain,
When it comes to recovery from things. Pain is a
big one because we can't really measure pain, and yet
we know two people who have the exact same injury,
like bang your hand with a hammer, two people that
have the exact same insult to their hand. If the
(05:49):
more optimistic person personal with the better attitude is going
to feel less pain and recover more quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Wow coming up. J Setty doubles down on the idea
of connection leading to fulfillment, and in a special sneak
peak of season two, Simon Sinek shares the daily pursuit
that makes a fulfilled life possible.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Now, we're talking a lot about the four of us,
the question of happiness versus fulfillment, and how we need
to live a life of fulfillment. And you know, the
Western concept of happiness often is the next thing, and
you know, the next toy, or the bigger car, or
the bigger job title or the corner office. But that
doesn't fill us up just in terms of what do
you have in your heart and that fulfillment that you
(06:36):
find yourself in. Because of everybody we've ever met in Hollywood,
We've met a lot of people you are the most grounded, loving, caring,
engaged person we've ever met.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
You know, actors are always dependent on somebody liking them,
approving of them, should you work or you You know,
we spent so much of our lives, not just actors,
but a lot of people, you know, you know, striving
to be loved. And that's only because we don't realize
that we have to learn to love ourselves and all
(07:09):
the human things about us, and that you know, that
image of seeing the light and other people. I was
on the campaign trail for nearly three weeks and going
into a lot of very you know, isolated play. They
sent us where you know, the camel and some of
the big candidates couldn't go because you know, they draw
such crowds, but they can only do so much. So
(07:32):
we were sent in areas where nobody went, and the
people were just on fire. And the three weeks were
just so satisfying and hopeful. I was absolutely certain she
was going to win, and she did win because her
whole campaign reflected the character of the nation, not its bitterness,
(07:55):
it's darkness, it's fear, it's anger. It reflected the joy.
That was the first word that came out of her
campaign was joy and I saw it everywhere we went,
and even and I was in the battleground states so called,
you know, and man, yeah, there's a lot of a
lot of darkness. But when I received I was doing
door knocking in some areas and we were running into
(08:17):
people with the you know, with the with this opposition
to sign on their homes and their cars. There was
just that spark of what's drawing you here? Why are
you doing this? And they clearly wanted what these people had,
these volunteers, these young people who were so inspired and
and were canvassing, you know. So I saw a lot
(08:40):
of that and I was I was grounded in the
I think, I think we know ourselves when we see ourselves,
you see someone that reflects you in a way that
that draws you to them. You you just you cannot
be yourself and not see yourself and others, you know,
(09:02):
I just it happens all the time, that image of
shaeing the light coming from people.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Martin.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
There is no way to bring more inspiration and to
bring a little dose of hope than with a classic
President Bartlet moments. And many people are feeling a little overwhelmed,
a little bit hopeless, and so I'd be curious what
would President Bartlett say to rally them back at this time.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
Well, I would refer to a great friend of Gandhi
is Roman. Donno to gore. We are called to lift
up this nation and all its people to that place
where the heart is without fear and the head is
held high, where knowledge is free, Where the world has
(09:50):
not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls,
where words come out from the depths of truth, and
tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection, with a clear
stream of reason, has not lost its way into the
dreary desert sands of dead habit where the mind is
led forward by thee into whoever widening thought and action,
(10:14):
into that heaven of freedom. Dear father, let our country awake.
Speaker 8 (10:25):
The cool thing about the distinction that I'm going to
share with you is that it comes from someone's research.
And the person I'm going to say is doctor tall
Ben Shahar, one of the kind of original rockstar happiness
professors at one of the Ivy League schools, And he
(10:45):
has this concept that I love because happiness. What we
get wrong about it is we believe that there is
a thing out there that will make you happy all
the time. And the problem with that is once you
get the thing, your happiness or your excitement or enthusiasm,
(11:07):
whatever you call it, just disappears right away because you
got the thing. And we have this relentless need to
feel good. So we're constantly looking out there and we think, well,
maybe the car, or maybe you know, it's the boyfriend
or the girlfriend, or maybe it's a certain dollar in
the bank, or maybe it's a certain number on the scale,
or it's a certain friend group or whatever that is
(11:28):
going to create this feeling inside me that I sow
not only want, but you actually deserve to feel good
in your life. But we're going about it wrong. And
so he basically says, anytime you want something out there,
it's like staring at the sun. If you look directly
at the sun, just like you look directly at your
bank account and say I'm gonna be happy if I
(11:49):
have a million dollars in that bank account. You're going
to get sun spots and you're going to be blinded,
and you're going to be miserable as you're trying to
get it, because because you're going to think you're only
going to feel good once you get there. Instead, he says,
I want you to take the sun and put it
(12:11):
through a prism and it creates a rainbow. And when
you realize that that's what's available to you right now,
that's what you can bring into your life right now,
that it's not really out there. It's all the things
that you can take in and bring in here that
truly create fulfillment.
Speaker 9 (12:35):
What would you offer to people that are feeling that fear,
that that disconnection, the overwhelm, the stress.
Speaker 10 (12:44):
You know.
Speaker 11 (12:44):
The first thing that came to mind for me is
whenever I feel like things are out of my control,
or I feel like overwhelmed at what's happening around me,
or even in our own life, there's this Every time
I feel like it's just me, the problem feels really
difficult to handle. But as soon as I think the
problem is me plus God, or me plus the universe
(13:08):
or something that has a much higher power than I do,
it starts to feel a little bit more manageable. And
so I find that prayer for me has always been
such a beautiful place to come to when all other
hope feels lost. I think I get a lot of
solace in prayer, and I think that also connects to
(13:29):
the idea that if we can feel way more disconnected
when we don't feel connected to ourselfs, and so whether
it's practices and rituals to actually connect deeper to ourself
that allows us to connect deeper to other people and
have meaningful connections with others that help us through those times.
I think reconnecting every single day in some way to
(13:51):
who you are and having those moments are really important
to be able to connect to someone else, to be
able to feel understood or valued by other people. And yeah,
I think for me, the main one always ends up
being prayer because I'm like, at this point, I can't
control anything, so I'm leaving it up to you. But yeah,
I would love to hear some of yours.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
There's something called the third space theory, and it's this
idea that just around twenty five fifty years ago, we
had three spaces we lived in, We had home, we
had work, and then we had church or temple, synagogue, mosque.
And what happened is that those three spaces shrunk to
(14:36):
two spaces. We went from work to home and home
to work, and now we all know that those two
places have shrunk into one place. We work from home
and we live at home. And what's happened is not
that we've just lost three spaces, but we've lost what
that third space provided us. So what happened at church
(14:56):
or the community center or a place of gathering, you
had a space to look back on work and home
and state and everything else and reflect on how could
I be better? What could I do differently? Let's figure
out together what the solution is, what can we all
band to do together. So the biggest challenge today is
(15:18):
that we're all feeling the same feeling, but we're feeling
it on our own. We're lonely feeling the same thing.
And there's a big difference between being lonely feeling something
and feeling belonging in feeling something. And so what I
would encourage everyone to do is go and find your
third space. Go and find your space of belonging, Go
(15:41):
and find your space of connection. Go and find that
space where you're with people of equal value, where you
can share your heart, when you can hear other peoples,
when you can open up your mind, where you can
carry someone else's burden. I think we've just lost that
as a society, and I think these moments are great
from is that we are stronger when we are working together,
(16:03):
We are better when we're working together, and ultimately, when
we're united and carrying each other's weight, the weight doesn't
feel as large. And I think that's the biggest challenge today,
is that we're all carrying the weight on our own
and so finding that third space, creating that third space
if you don't have it. The third space doesn't have
to be two hundred people, two thousand people, twenty thousand people.
(16:25):
It can literally be four people in a room that
are reading scripture together, that are starting a book club,
that are listening to this podcast and sharing what they
learned from you and all your amazing guests that you've
had on It starts that small, and I really feel
that we have to create that third space, even because
right now our third space is all of us sitting
(16:46):
in front of the television, and the TV screen is
the third space. The phone screen is the third space,
and that third space isn't giving you what the original
third space gave you.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Season two of My Legacy launches next week, and it's
packed with powerful voices you won't want to miss From
Gloria Steinem to Sophia Bush John Legend to Nicole Hannah Jones.
Make sure to follow and subscribe so you don't miss
a moment. Coming up a special sneak peek with Simon
Sinek on what it really means to live a fulfilled
(17:20):
life and how we are failing at friendship.
Speaker 9 (17:28):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
What we try to do is really lean into doctor
King's concept of the bloved community. But we find that
around connection, and we find that around the idea of
fulfillment and leading a fulfilled life. In your opinion, based
on your experience, how does one live and lead a
fulfilled life?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So I think fulfillment comes from knowing that your life
and or your work are contributing to something bigger than yourself,
and that is relative to one' zones, ambitions, and goals.
You know, somebody who's devoted themselves to parenthood and sees
a child flourish and going to be something bigger than
themselves will find that feeling. But coming to work simply
(18:10):
to make money, it's exciting at the beginning, but it
doesn't contribute to a feeling of lifelong contribution. And this
is where vision matters, you know, you know, vision is
an idealized version of the world we want to live in.
(18:31):
And when your dad said I had a dream, he
was articulating a world that did not exist, still doesn't exist.
It's an ideal state that we strive towards. We'll never
get there, but we'll die trying. And that's sort of
the point, and all of the markers, all of the progress,
all of the waypoints, you know, three steps forwards, two
steps back, three steps forwards are proof that we're getting
(18:52):
closer and closer and closer to this idealized state. And
that's what leads to a fulfilled life that I'm making
progress to a world that is better than the one
we live in now.
Speaker 9 (19:01):
One of the themes from the book is about strengthening
connections with yourself, with others the world. So, but what
do you see as the main obstacle to people finding
true connection.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I think there's many things that get in the way
of us forming true connection. One is, I think we
take friends for granted. You know, everybody knows you have
to work hard in marriage, like marriage takes work. Everybody
knows that. And when marriages have trouble, you get help.
(19:36):
You go for therapy, you go for couples therapy, but
nobody goes for friends therapy when your friendships are in trouble.
Nobody thinks that friendships take work. We sort of take
them for granted. Like if you guys have a massive fight,
you don't default to divorce. We're in friendships. You have
a massive fight, and people like I don't think I
can do this friendship anymore. We're sort of much more
disposable about friendships for some reason. I don't know why.
(19:57):
Maybe there's no contract. Maybe that's the reason. If you
ask the best couples, like the couples that we look
at and admire and be like, I want a marriage
like theirs, and if you ask them, what's your secret,
they all say the same thing. It's hard work, and
we do the work. And I don't know anybody in
friendship who says friendship is hard work, and we do
the work. And so I think one of the reasons
we have so much disconnection in the world is we
actually are not very good at the skill of being
(20:20):
a friend. You know, would you cancel in a friend
for a meeting, would you cancel in a meeting for
a friend Oh, but my friends would understand. You don't
think the people in the meeting would understand. And that's
the problem. I think we deprioritize friends almost always, quote unquote,
because they'll understand. Yes, we can blame social media, it
absolutely is a contributing factor. Yes we can blame post
(20:40):
lockdown world, you know, it's absolutely a factor. But I
think deeper than all of those things is we lack
the skills to be a friend. A friend of mine,
she and I see the world very differently. She's a
conspiracy theorist and I view the world differently. And she
came to visit me in New York and you were
going for a long walk and she said something that
(21:03):
I disagreed with politically or worldviewee, and I thought, definitely thought,
and I think I said, how can you be so stupid?
And she stops in her tracks and says, you just
called your friend stupid. And I realized how judgmental it
was to just because I disagree with someone's worldview that
I think they're dumb, because on both sides of the
(21:26):
political aal, both sides think the other are the sheeple,
you know. And so we were both confronted with the
situation of somebody, a friend who we both care about
and love, which is each other?
Speaker 11 (21:37):
Now?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
What? Thank you for joining us? Season two launches Tuesday,
August fifth, with the full conversation from Simon, packed with
insight on how to build a real connection even when
it feels impossible politically and personally. Subscribe now so you
don't miss a moment.
And if you ask the best couples, like the couples
that we look at and admire and be like, I
want a marriage like theirs, And if you ask them,
what's your secret? They all say the same thing, It's
hard work. Can we do the work? And I don't
know anybody in friendship who says friendship is hard work?
Can we do the work? So I think one of
the reasons we have so much disconnection in the world
is we actually are not very good at the skill
of being a friend. You know, would you cancel in
(00:23):
a friend for a meeting? Would you cancel in a
meeting for a friend?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
That was New York Times best selling author Simon Sinek
offering his take on what we're getting wrong in our
pursuit of a fulfilled life. What does it take to
stop chasing happiness and start living with deeper purpose? In
this best of episode of My Legacy, hosts Martin Luther
King the Third, Andrea Waters, King, Mark Kilberger, and Craig
Kilberger explore the power of fulfillment, how to find it,
(00:48):
how to share it, and how to build a life
around it. You'll hear Simon Sinek with a special peak
of season two on why fulfillment isn't a destination, it's
something you build. Mel Robbins on escaping the happiness trap
and learning to find meaning in the every day. Jay Shetty,
I'm creating connection and the chaos of everyday life. And
Martin Sheen on the joy he saw on the campaign
(01:09):
trail and the hope he still sees in people no
matter how dark the world gets. But first up, doctor
Santekuta on the science behind feeling good, starting with a
shift to the way you think, not just the way
you live.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
So in a culture that is so focused on, you know,
chasing happiness, we often overlook what truly makes life for
feeling So, in your view, what creates a life of
real fulfillment.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
I'll make my answer very simple. I feel like I
got really lucky in life, and I don't know that
I deserved it, but I got lucky. I have a
great life, and I think my fulfillment is to constantly
be a source of good energy for people. Wow, to
just walk into every situation, every interaction and sharing good
(02:02):
energy is a really powerful thing. You know. It's not
as objective as money or something like that, but just
to bring good energy to someone's life, and because I
was blessed with it, and so I want to give
it away. I also think, as I talked about in
the book, that there's a component of reciprocal altruism there.
(02:24):
It feels good to do good. This seems almost anti
evolutionary in a way because it was always the survival
of the fittest and everything, so it's got to keep
mine and you know, but yet we evolved as humans
to feel good when we did good, Like where did
that come from? And it's true. I think everybody would agree,
anybody that if you do something nice for somebody, you
(02:44):
actually feel really good about it. And so that's it
for me. I don't think a lot again about legacy,
but the idea that genuinely bring good energy into every situation,
make people feel good around you, take the time to listen.
Empathy is not a weakness. Empathy sometimes seen as a
weakness nowadays. When did that happen? It was always a
(03:04):
strength when I was growing up, you know, But now
it's almost seen as a weakness. So change that narrative.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Well said, you've written and spoken extensively about longevity and aging,
and you've said something we love that if you could
go back and talk to your younger self, you would
talk about two really critical things. One is take time
to talk to people from older generations really cool, and
two attitude matters. So can you just explain to us
(03:31):
a little bit about why those two reflections are so important?
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, I think when it comes to talking to people
of older generations, you know, I think this is a
sense that you have to experience many of these things yourself,
and I think there's a lot of truth to that.
One of my favorite books is Saddartha by Hermann Hesse,
and I think to distill that message down, It's like
there are a lot of lessons to be learned in life,
but some of them you just have to learn yourself.
(03:58):
You have to go through the experience to learn it yourself.
People can tell you, but it can't really be taught.
You have to experience. But for a lot of other things,
they're hacks. I feel like, you know, things that my
dad probably thought of at the exact same age that
I was thinking of, or my grandfather, and instead of saying, hey, look,
let me just you know, fumble the ball and make
(04:20):
the mistakes, Like can I just ask them, what did
you prioritize At this point in life, when did you
start to shift your priorities? How did you save money,
you know, just whatever it might be, from very practical
things to more philosophical things. I think was really important.
I also found that it made me feel good to
have those conversations with them, and it made them feel good.
(04:41):
This is this component of reciprocal altruism. We have a
lot of knowledge about our own personal biology now, and
I think the idea that we think about affecting our
biology through extraneous methods, through pills that you take, medications, procedures,
things like that. One of the really interesting sort of
(05:04):
revelations and science is that we can actively change our
biology by our thinking. And we kind of thought that
if you're optimistic, you're gonna feel better, you're gonna heal better,
you're gonna recover more quickly from things. We kind of
knew that, But now we can measure it, and we
can see cells changing. We can see the increase in
tumor necrosis factor cells that bust cancer, cells that boost
(05:28):
your immune system, purely by thinking about it. And so
attitude matters. Attitude matters. It matters when it comes to pain,
When it comes to recovery from things. Pain is a
big one because we can't really measure pain, and yet
we know two people who have the exact same injury,
like bang your hand with a hammer, two people that
have the exact same insult to their hand. If the
(05:49):
more optimistic person personal with the better attitude is going
to feel less pain and recover more quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Wow coming up. J Setty doubles down on the idea
of connection leading to fulfillment, and in a special sneak
peak of season two, Simon Sinek shares the daily pursuit
that makes a fulfilled life possible.
Speaker 6 (06:13):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Now, we're talking a lot about the four of us,
the question of happiness versus fulfillment, and how we need
to live a life of fulfillment. And you know, the
Western concept of happiness often is the next thing, and
you know, the next toy, or the bigger car, or
the bigger job title or the corner office. But that
doesn't fill us up just in terms of what do
you have in your heart and that fulfillment that you
(06:36):
find yourself in. Because of everybody we've ever met in Hollywood,
We've met a lot of people you are the most grounded, loving, caring,
engaged person we've ever met.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
You know, actors are always dependent on somebody liking them,
approving of them, should you work or you You know,
we spent so much of our lives, not just actors,
but a lot of people, you know, you know, striving
to be loved. And that's only because we don't realize
that we have to learn to love ourselves and all
(07:09):
the human things about us, and that you know, that
image of seeing the light and other people. I was
on the campaign trail for nearly three weeks and going
into a lot of very you know, isolated play. They
sent us where you know, the camel and some of
the big candidates couldn't go because you know, they draw
such crowds, but they can only do so much. So
(07:32):
we were sent in areas where nobody went, and the
people were just on fire. And the three weeks were
just so satisfying and hopeful. I was absolutely certain she
was going to win, and she did win because her
whole campaign reflected the character of the nation, not its bitterness,
(07:55):
it's darkness, it's fear, it's anger. It reflected the joy.
That was the first word that came out of her
campaign was joy and I saw it everywhere we went,
and even and I was in the battleground states so called,
you know, and man, yeah, there's a lot of a
lot of darkness. But when I received I was doing
door knocking in some areas and we were running into
(08:17):
people with the you know, with the with this opposition
to sign on their homes and their cars. There was
just that spark of what's drawing you here? Why are
you doing this? And they clearly wanted what these people had,
these volunteers, these young people who were so inspired and
and were canvassing, you know. So I saw a lot
(08:40):
of that and I was I was grounded in the
I think, I think we know ourselves when we see ourselves,
you see someone that reflects you in a way that
that draws you to them. You you just you cannot
be yourself and not see yourself and others, you know,
(09:02):
I just it happens all the time, that image of
shaeing the light coming from people.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Martin.
Speaker 6 (09:08):
There is no way to bring more inspiration and to
bring a little dose of hope than with a classic
President Bartlet moments. And many people are feeling a little overwhelmed,
a little bit hopeless, and so I'd be curious what
would President Bartlett say to rally them back at this time.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
Well, I would refer to a great friend of Gandhi
is Roman. Donno to gore. We are called to lift
up this nation and all its people to that place
where the heart is without fear and the head is
held high, where knowledge is free, Where the world has
(09:50):
not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls,
where words come out from the depths of truth, and
tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection, with a clear
stream of reason, has not lost its way into the
dreary desert sands of dead habit where the mind is
led forward by thee into whoever widening thought and action,
(10:14):
into that heaven of freedom. Dear father, let our country awake.
Speaker 8 (10:25):
The cool thing about the distinction that I'm going to
share with you is that it comes from someone's research.
And the person I'm going to say is doctor tall
Ben Shahar, one of the kind of original rockstar happiness
professors at one of the Ivy League schools, And he
(10:45):
has this concept that I love because happiness. What we
get wrong about it is we believe that there is
a thing out there that will make you happy all
the time. And the problem with that is once you
get the thing, your happiness or your excitement or enthusiasm,
(11:07):
whatever you call it, just disappears right away because you
got the thing. And we have this relentless need to
feel good. So we're constantly looking out there and we think, well,
maybe the car, or maybe you know, it's the boyfriend
or the girlfriend, or maybe it's a certain dollar in
the bank, or maybe it's a certain number on the scale,
or it's a certain friend group or whatever that is
(11:28):
going to create this feeling inside me that I sow
not only want, but you actually deserve to feel good
in your life. But we're going about it wrong. And
so he basically says, anytime you want something out there,
it's like staring at the sun. If you look directly
at the sun, just like you look directly at your
bank account and say I'm gonna be happy if I
(11:49):
have a million dollars in that bank account. You're going
to get sun spots and you're going to be blinded,
and you're going to be miserable as you're trying to
get it, because because you're going to think you're only
going to feel good once you get there. Instead, he says,
I want you to take the sun and put it
(12:11):
through a prism and it creates a rainbow. And when
you realize that that's what's available to you right now,
that's what you can bring into your life right now,
that it's not really out there. It's all the things
that you can take in and bring in here that
truly create fulfillment.
Speaker 9 (12:35):
What would you offer to people that are feeling that fear,
that that disconnection, the overwhelm, the stress.
Speaker 10 (12:44):
You know.
Speaker 11 (12:44):
The first thing that came to mind for me is
whenever I feel like things are out of my control,
or I feel like overwhelmed at what's happening around me,
or even in our own life, there's this Every time
I feel like it's just me, the problem feels really
difficult to handle. But as soon as I think the
problem is me plus God, or me plus the universe
(13:08):
or something that has a much higher power than I do,
it starts to feel a little bit more manageable. And
so I find that prayer for me has always been
such a beautiful place to come to when all other
hope feels lost. I think I get a lot of
solace in prayer, and I think that also connects to
(13:29):
the idea that if we can feel way more disconnected
when we don't feel connected to ourselfs, and so whether
it's practices and rituals to actually connect deeper to ourself
that allows us to connect deeper to other people and
have meaningful connections with others that help us through those times.
I think reconnecting every single day in some way to
(13:51):
who you are and having those moments are really important
to be able to connect to someone else, to be
able to feel understood or valued by other people. And yeah,
I think for me, the main one always ends up
being prayer because I'm like, at this point, I can't
control anything, so I'm leaving it up to you. But yeah,
I would love to hear some of yours.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
There's something called the third space theory, and it's this
idea that just around twenty five fifty years ago, we
had three spaces we lived in, We had home, we
had work, and then we had church or temple, synagogue, mosque.
And what happened is that those three spaces shrunk to
(14:36):
two spaces. We went from work to home and home
to work, and now we all know that those two
places have shrunk into one place. We work from home
and we live at home. And what's happened is not
that we've just lost three spaces, but we've lost what
that third space provided us. So what happened at church
(14:56):
or the community center or a place of gathering, you
had a space to look back on work and home
and state and everything else and reflect on how could
I be better? What could I do differently? Let's figure
out together what the solution is, what can we all
band to do together. So the biggest challenge today is
(15:18):
that we're all feeling the same feeling, but we're feeling
it on our own. We're lonely feeling the same thing.
And there's a big difference between being lonely feeling something
and feeling belonging in feeling something. And so what I
would encourage everyone to do is go and find your
third space. Go and find your space of belonging, Go
(15:41):
and find your space of connection. Go and find that
space where you're with people of equal value, where you
can share your heart, when you can hear other peoples,
when you can open up your mind, where you can
carry someone else's burden. I think we've just lost that
as a society, and I think these moments are great
from is that we are stronger when we are working together,
(16:03):
We are better when we're working together, and ultimately, when
we're united and carrying each other's weight, the weight doesn't
feel as large. And I think that's the biggest challenge today,
is that we're all carrying the weight on our own
and so finding that third space, creating that third space
if you don't have it. The third space doesn't have
to be two hundred people, two thousand people, twenty thousand people.
(16:25):
It can literally be four people in a room that
are reading scripture together, that are starting a book club,
that are listening to this podcast and sharing what they
learned from you and all your amazing guests that you've
had on It starts that small, and I really feel
that we have to create that third space, even because
right now our third space is all of us sitting
(16:46):
in front of the television, and the TV screen is
the third space. The phone screen is the third space,
and that third space isn't giving you what the original
third space gave you.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Season two of My Legacy launches next week, and it's
packed with powerful voices you won't want to miss From
Gloria Steinem to Sophia Bush John Legend to Nicole Hannah Jones.
Make sure to follow and subscribe so you don't miss
a moment. Coming up a special sneak peek with Simon
Sinek on what it really means to live a fulfilled
(17:20):
life and how we are failing at friendship.
Speaker 9 (17:28):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
What we try to do is really lean into doctor
King's concept of the bloved community. But we find that
around connection, and we find that around the idea of
fulfillment and leading a fulfilled life. In your opinion, based
on your experience, how does one live and lead a
fulfilled life?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So I think fulfillment comes from knowing that your life
and or your work are contributing to something bigger than yourself,
and that is relative to one' zones, ambitions, and goals.
You know, somebody who's devoted themselves to parenthood and sees
a child flourish and going to be something bigger than
themselves will find that feeling. But coming to work simply
(18:10):
to make money, it's exciting at the beginning, but it
doesn't contribute to a feeling of lifelong contribution. And this
is where vision matters, you know, you know, vision is
an idealized version of the world we want to live in.
(18:31):
And when your dad said I had a dream, he
was articulating a world that did not exist, still doesn't exist.
It's an ideal state that we strive towards. We'll never
get there, but we'll die trying. And that's sort of
the point, and all of the markers, all of the progress,
all of the waypoints, you know, three steps forwards, two
steps back, three steps forwards are proof that we're getting
(18:52):
closer and closer and closer to this idealized state. And
that's what leads to a fulfilled life that I'm making
progress to a world that is better than the one
we live in now.
Speaker 9 (19:01):
One of the themes from the book is about strengthening
connections with yourself, with others the world. So, but what
do you see as the main obstacle to people finding
true connection.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I think there's many things that get in the way
of us forming true connection. One is, I think we
take friends for granted. You know, everybody knows you have
to work hard in marriage, like marriage takes work. Everybody
knows that. And when marriages have trouble, you get help.
(19:36):
You go for therapy, you go for couples therapy, but
nobody goes for friends therapy when your friendships are in trouble.
Nobody thinks that friendships take work. We sort of take
them for granted. Like if you guys have a massive fight,
you don't default to divorce. We're in friendships. You have
a massive fight, and people like I don't think I
can do this friendship anymore. We're sort of much more
disposable about friendships for some reason. I don't know why.
(19:57):
Maybe there's no contract. Maybe that's the reason. If you
ask the best couples, like the couples that we look
at and admire and be like, I want a marriage
like theirs, and if you ask them, what's your secret,
they all say the same thing. It's hard work, and
we do the work. And I don't know anybody in
friendship who says friendship is hard work, and we do
the work. And so I think one of the reasons
we have so much disconnection in the world is we
actually are not very good at the skill of being
(20:20):
a friend. You know, would you cancel in a friend
for a meeting, would you cancel in a meeting for
a friend Oh, but my friends would understand. You don't
think the people in the meeting would understand. And that's
the problem. I think we deprioritize friends almost always, quote unquote,
because they'll understand. Yes, we can blame social media, it
absolutely is a contributing factor. Yes we can blame post
(20:40):
lockdown world, you know, it's absolutely a factor. But I
think deeper than all of those things is we lack
the skills to be a friend. A friend of mine,
she and I see the world very differently. She's a
conspiracy theorist and I view the world differently. And she
came to visit me in New York and you were
going for a long walk and she said something that
(21:03):
I disagreed with politically or worldviewee, and I thought, definitely thought,
and I think I said, how can you be so stupid?
And she stops in her tracks and says, you just
called your friend stupid. And I realized how judgmental it
was to just because I disagree with someone's worldview that
I think they're dumb, because on both sides of the
(21:26):
political aal, both sides think the other are the sheeple,
you know. And so we were both confronted with the
situation of somebody, a friend who we both care about
and love, which is each other?
Speaker 11 (21:37):
Now?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
What? Thank you for joining us? Season two launches Tuesday,
August fifth, with the full conversation from Simon, packed with
insight on how to build a real connection even when
it feels impossible politically and personally. Subscribe now so you
don't miss a moment.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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