July 22, 2025 • 26 mins
It’s wedding season—and in this special best-of episode of My Legacy, we’re going beyond romance to explore what truly sustains a lifelong partnership.
Hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger sit down with some of the most inspiring couples we’ve met to uncover the real work – and real joy – of lasting love.
- Jay Shetty opens up about allowing your partner to be your guru.
- Sarah Jakes Roberts reflects on releasing the pride of independence to embrace true partnership.
- Serita Jakes reveals the one issue couples must stop ignoring before they say “I do.”
- CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta and his wife Rebecca share the rituals that keep them grounded, despite the chaos of raising kids and running two high-powered careers.
Whether you're in love, healing from love, or hoping to find it—this episode will meet you right where you are.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Your partner is your guru. And one of my favorite
things about that is that your partner is really a mirror.
And the challenge we have in relationships is that the
right partner holds up the mirror in a non judgmental way,
but we're so convinced that the mirror is broken because
we don't like what we see that we reject them.
(00:26):
So we reject the one person who actually has the
ability to help us grow.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That was best selling author and On Purpose host Jay
Shetty reflecting on the hard truth and marriage growth isn't
always comfortable, especially when the person holding up the mirror
is the one you love. It's wedding season, and in
this best of episode of My Legacy, We're going Beyond
the Vows. Host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger sit down with extraordinary couples
(00:54):
to uncover what it really takes to stay connected through conflict,
change and everything. In Beach Queen, we'll hear from Serena Jakes,
Bishop TD, Jakes's wife of forty three years, on why
the problem you ignore before your vows might be the
one that unravels you CNN's doctor Sanjea Gupta, I'm building
the foundation of trust in a high pressure world. Roddy
(01:17):
Devlukiya on why the smallest rituals can hold the biggest meaning.
And Sarah Jakes Roberts on learning to surrender her pride
as a strong single mother to create a new kind
of strength and marriage. First up, Jay Shetty on how
your partner is both your mirror and your teacher.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Jay.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
In your international best selling book Eight Rules of Love,
you talk about what it takes to nurture a relationship.
Can you give us one or two of your top
suggestions on how you can continuously strengthen bonds between couples.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
She'd be asking all of you this, but yeah, I'll
try my best. I'm sure there's a lot more wisdom
on that side of the table. So I feel underqualified,
but I would say one of my favorite one is
I have a chapter in the book called your partner
is Your Guru. And what I mean by that is
(02:10):
that not that they're an authoritative, judgmental, dictatorial individual, because
that's not what a guru is. A guru is someone
who's dedicated to your growth, who's committed to helping you
find your path and who's patient while you do it.
That's actually what a guru is, especially in the Eastern traditions.
(02:33):
And one of my favorite things about that is that
your partner is really a mirror. And the challenge we
have in relationships is that the right partner holds up
the mirror in a non judgmental way, but we're so
convinced that the mirror is broken because we don't like
what we see that we reject them. So we reject
(02:55):
the one person who actually has the ability to help
us grow. And so Radi has been completely non judgmental,
empathetic and compassionate about my health journey. When I met Radi,
I was addicted to sugar, I ate a lot of
fried food. I was fairly unhealthy physically, and because I
had a strong mind and meditated daily and felt like
(03:18):
I'd got somewhere with that journey, I felt like my
body almost didn't matter. I almost felt like it was
a afterthought. And she didn't teach me by telling me
I was wrong and that I was wasting time, that
I was being lazy, and that I should work out more,
because none of those things would have helped me. Because
my ego would have come to my defense and been
a shield and pushed back, and I would have been
(03:39):
affected by that, like I think we all are. Instead,
she set the example. She's worked out every day i've
known her. She's eaten a clean diet, she's always cooked
healthy food. She encouraged me and educated me in the
challenges of how I was living without making me feel
bad about them, and she's been my guru for my
health and so to me. When you're partners, your guru,
(04:00):
and you allow your partner to teach you in a
non judgmental, non confrontational, non finger pointing way, that is
the person who can help you grow. There's no one
on planet Earth who could make you a better human
being than the person you spend the most time with,
so that your partners, your guru is probably one of them.
And I think you said a couple. I would add
(04:23):
that the problem is we often want our partners to change,
but what we don't have is the patience that it
takes to watch them change. And we also want them
to change into the people we want them to be,
not the people that they want them to be. We
see their potential and we say you must rise to this.
(04:46):
We see the possibility and we say, you must reach this.
We see the result for them that we've projected, and
we say, if you don't get to this, you've failed.
And never have we asked them who who do you
want to be? How do you want to live your life?
What are you trying to accomplish? And it's really interesting
(05:09):
to me that we believe, just because we want to
invest in them, that that care is greater than their ambition.
And I think we work so hard we want to
be their savior. We want to be the person to
solve all their problems, We want to be the person
who fixes everything for them, just to feel good about ourselves.
(05:31):
We don't actually want them to be happy. We just
want to be happy that we're doing something for them,
And so we don't really give them the patience, the time,
the energy to find who they are and move in
that direction for themselves, because we want to feel like
we're helping, we're fixing, We're I'm here to solve all
your problems, and in that you try to be the
person who saves them, but actually you push them away.
(05:53):
So those would be my two biggest things that I
think if we can on the first time, learn to
be a guru that's non judgmental, and on the second hand,
learn to be patient and let people become who they
want to be, not try to make them who we
want them to be.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
I rarely get sick, and I'm blessed and fortunate. But
a lot of that, in my mind is because every day,
not a day goes by that Andrea doesn't put out
vitamins from me. Now, I would like to be that's
a simple thing. I'd love to be able to do that,
and I will get there, But that constantly reinforces. You know,
(06:34):
when your partner loves you so much that they're very
concerned about your being healthy, being able to go out
into the world as many of us have to do.
So I want to ask you both, what simple thing
does your partner do to show that they love you?
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Ah, my gosh.
Speaker 7 (06:52):
Jason.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
Well, Jason very expressive person, but it's not just the
words that he uses, like he is someone who will
verbally check and be like, what can I do to
make you happier? Is there anyway I can help you?
And he says that to me on a regular basis.
So I think one part of it is being vocal
about how you want to be there for your partner,
which I actually wasn't very good at and I'm still
(07:14):
getting better at to actually vocalize it. I've you know,
in my mind, I'm I see myself more of an
active service, which is how I've seen my parents be.
So I'd be like, oh, but in my mind, I've
cooked a meal, and I've done this little thing and
and but sometimes you realize that actually having those vocal
moments are really important and how much that makes a
difference in a relationship. But then in action, it's like
(07:36):
the little things of you know, even if he's just
sat down, when I've sat down and I need something,
he'll get back up, Like if I won't get back up,
he'll get back up.
Speaker 7 (07:44):
To get it for me.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Or if I am feeling I know you still do it,
And you know, it's those little things where you just
notice someone going out of their way for you, because
not many people want to go out of their way
for you. And then another one is whenever I'm having
I'm quite an emotional person, and whenever he feels my
energy is a little bit off, he'll always no matter
(08:07):
what he's got going on, he'n always make space and
time to just check in and be like, do you
need help with anything? Can I sit with you? I
can work through whether it's a work thing, whether it's
a family thing. You know, he always creates the time
and space, no matter how busy, to have those moments
of connection if he feels like I really need it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, so many as well. I think for me the
biggest one is I think when we first got married
and we moved to New York and then we were
kind of there for a couple of years, then moving
to LA and we've just been through so much change
and change that wasn't anticipated or expected, so change that
(08:44):
we both had planned to live our whole lives fifteen
minutes from our local temple in England and five minutes
away from Radi's parents' home. And actually that was one
of her requirements for us getting married, was that she
could be a one mile radius away from her parents'
home and I'd commit to that, and I genuinely had
(09:06):
committed to that. It was something that I thought was
very real. All of our friends are in that area,
families in that area. It made sense. And then all
of a sudden, my career took a turn in twenty
sixteen when this part of my life started to grow,
and it's continued to for the nine years, thankfully, And
if I'm completely honest, that was completely not part of
(09:27):
the plan, not my plan, not her plan, not our plan.
But it was what I couldn't even have dreamed of.
And not once in the last nine years has Radi
ever said to me, look what I gave up for you.
And oh God, I could cry saying this, but it's
(09:47):
one of those things. It's like, I know how much
her parents mean to her, no much her family friends
mean to her. I know how much London means to her,
and for her to move away, for her to give
that up when we didn't have clarity, like you know,
we're very fortunate today to have a wonderful life, but
(10:08):
getting here wasn't easy. I was away a lot, I
traveled a lot for work, I was building things, moving around.
And never once did she say I gave this all
up for you. You're never around, you work too hard.
And I think that kind of trust, without nagging, without
(10:29):
making someone feel bad, when I was already carrying the
burden of it myself, And I think that's the feeling
that makes you feel loved where you're like, I was
already feeling that way myself, So if she would have
said it to me, it probably would have broken me.
But the fact that she didn't feel that she had
to say it to me makes me feel loved. So
(10:49):
not blaming, not shaming, not pushing, not prodding is is.
It feels like a small thing, but actually it's huge.
And even at the moment the difficult times in our life,
whether we were financially struggling, you know, struggling with moving, changing,
whatever things were going on in our life, every time
(11:10):
I'd update her on what would happen, she'd always say,
I trust you. And hearing your partner say that when
you don't even know what's going to happen next is
the greatest sign of love. And so and and you know,
she radly decided to date me and commit to a
relationship with me when I had nothing to offer about myself.
(11:32):
And so that's a pretty big thing. She she could
have married anyone she wanted to marry, and so her
decision to be with someone who didn't have a even
a secure job when we first started dating, and you know,
someone who'd been in the monastery for three years and
didn't have any sort of savings or any sort of plan.
I think it shows her character and her ability to,
(11:55):
you know, go beyond material things. And and the more
recent one, I mean I could go on as well.
I think the more recently I need to get one.
Radi's never let me define my self worth based on
my success. So when I first started to experience success,
(12:15):
RADI didn't celebrate it in the way I wanted her
to and I would want. Look, I'd wanted my wife
to be my number one fan and my biggest cheerleader,
and she wasn't for my career. But I had to
realize if I skewed my perspective, she was for who
I was, So if it came to my character, that's
(12:36):
what she was backing. She wasn't backing me because of
my career. And that took me. That helped me detach
from valuing myself based on the success of my career,
because I think that's what I would have done and
what I would have wanted if she had fallen in
that way. And so her lack of validation for my
career was the greatest validation for my career.
Speaker 8 (12:58):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Great, but I think it's a c And again going
back to the men point, I think a lot of
men like we want our partners to be like front row.
We want them to be the cheerleader, like we've we've
got that culture. And I'm not saying that my wife
isn't my cheerleading that, But I'm saying, your wife's cheerleading
your character, not your career. That's better because the career
(13:21):
is up and down. Like the career is going to
do whatever it's going to do, but your characters who
you are, Like what do you want to be loved for?
Do you want to be loved for the amount of
followers you have? Or do you want to be loved
for who you are and how you show up and
what she believes you represent? And so I think it's
genuinely we're laughing about it, and it can have funny connotations,
but I want to clarify, Like the point is, I
(13:41):
think we all want to be loved for who we
are and not loved for what we achieve.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
I did start listening to your podcast last year.
Speaker 9 (13:53):
Guys are hilarious.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
I love this.
Speaker 9 (13:56):
I love that your your voice was cracking, like they
I should stop stopping going I can see like Roddie's
eyes starting welling out the two of you. It's awesome.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
There are a great lesson in the languages of love, yes,
and acknowledging that that you know that we all love
different ways and we receive love differently.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Coming up, Serena Jakes brings forty years of marriage and
counseling wisdom. She'll share the one mistake couples make early
on and why ignoring it might cost you your marriage.
Speaker 10 (14:36):
Now back to my legacy, after more than forty years
of marriage and a ministering to so many couples, what's
one simple thing that couples often miss when it comes
to staying connected?
Speaker 11 (14:52):
Great question.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yes, I was thinking. I do the premarital counseling for
a lot of the couples, and they do a survey
where at that particular time they answer a question or
a statement and say this is how I feel now.
And so when I go back with that survey with
them go through it, I found out that most of
(15:16):
the time, most of the time, whatever the problem is
at the beginning of the marriage will become the problem
that disrupts the marriage, whether it's the fact that you
overspend or you uh you've got children and their bonus children,
(15:37):
or the in laws or the outlaws, or or or
the the n the time spent doing things that are extracurricular.
So I've found out in our marriage that the very
thing that I do now I did then the same
way that I treat him, then I still treat him. Now.
(16:01):
Does he get on my nurse? I would say occasional.
So I feel that if you start the relationship based
on the things that are important to one another and
not switch up, don't bait and switch, Like if you're
not going to make his plate for the rest of
(16:23):
the forty years, don't start it. If he's not going
to open the door for you when you get in
the car, and that's what you're expecting, you should let
him know that. But don't get in the middle of
the water and say, look, if you don't open this
door for me. So I feel like you have to
set a standard at the beginning of the marriage. These
(16:45):
are the things I expect from you. The I mean, truth, honesty,
all of that that they say with these new valves,
they want to rewrite the valels. They don't want to
be there for better or for worse. In sickness and
in health. They don't want to forsake all others. They
don't want to do that, but it is what it is.
I don't care how you want to make it flow
(17:07):
through the rivers. When I saw you walking through the
door and the clouds gathered above your head and it
rained one drop on you, and I knew that you
were the one. They want to write that sounds good,
but in theory better for worse sickness and in health,
forsaking all others, richer or for poorer, because you're going
(17:28):
to hit all of those milestones throughout your marriage. And
so I feel like it is what it is, you know,
And I'll hit a milestone with him, and I'll think, Wow,
this is in sickness and in health.
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Or I'll hit something when we went through and we
didn't have any water, or we didn't have any food
for the children, or we were on wick and food stamps,
richer or for poorer and forsaking all others. Cling to him,
you have to, you have to or that's not your guy.
(18:05):
And so many people ended divorce and it really scares
me because you never know. Yesterday I was at a
memorial service and they were talking about how going up
the hill to Jerusalem that you would find that there
were dens of thieves along the way and you would
fall into those traps, but you still had to keep
(18:26):
moving forward. And so I'm just thinking when those things
happened along the way during our forty two years of marriage,
I can see where there were as we traveled upward,
rich or poor, sickness and health, there were little entrapments, snares,
if you will, that would waylay us unless we decided
(18:51):
that we were going to stick together.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
You thought that you did not ever want to get remarried.
Oh yeah, but then someone changed your mind. Oh yeah,
and this is what you wrote on Instagram. The vulnerability
required to become one after you fought to become whole
is not often discussed. I had to surrender my identity
(19:17):
as a powerful single mother to discover my power as
a married woman.
Speaker 12 (19:24):
Yeah, nasty work, you know. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
You know.
Speaker 12 (19:32):
I got to a space where I was healthy, I'd
bought a home for me and my children, and I thought,
this is the dream. Like I thought that getting married
and having the white picket fence was the dream. I
saw that white picket finch just keep falling off over
and over again. And I said, you know what, fine,
I love being my mindself. I'll travel the world. I'm
still young. Everything will be fine. Then I met this man,
(19:56):
and in meeting.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Him, I just.
Speaker 12 (20:00):
I love the way the world looked through his eyes.
It was a compliment to the way the world looked
through my eyes. But it also had so much more
vibrancy and color, and there was so much more care
and depth for people and opportunities. And I thought to myself,
I think that he would make me better. You know,
(20:20):
as we talk about this better better, But I will
say that I underestimated the transformation necessary for me to
let go of the pride of being like, oh my gosh,
I made it. I'm this, you know, single mother who
bought this house. And I can make good decisions and
I can take care of my family. I can I
can bring home the bacon and fried in a pan.
(20:42):
And now I have someone who's like, hey, I could
grab the pan, or hey I could bring home the bacon.
And I think I did have a sense of pride
and identity connected to that. I never wanted to need
a man again. I never wanted to feel like my
life would fall apart if something happened, and I think
in the resistance of one onness that I could have
lost out on the opportunity to experience the beauty of oneness.
(21:06):
And so that took a lot of work. He's got
some battle scars, God bless him. But my life I
wantman evolved when exists if it wasn't for him, because
his ability to create space for me to dream and
to believe in those dreams and to say they're not crazy,
they're possible, gave me the courage to actually pursue them.
(21:27):
So he's definitely been a north star for me for
many years.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Now, coming up, CNN's Doctor, Sanche Gutta opens up about
the lessons that have kept his marriage strong for two decades.
Subscribe and share. You won't want to miss this.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 8 (21:52):
Well, what is the secret?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Though?
Speaker 8 (21:53):
The two of you have been happily made for twenty
years and extraordinarily of any lives, Like, let's just call
it what it is like you're on television, as you said,
you're whisking back for dinner. You know America's doctor. You
run your own law firm or back up for goodness
sakes and raise three daughters between the two of you, Like,
how do you stay connected?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well?
Speaker 11 (22:08):
One of the big things And again I give Someday
credit for this. We'd go for walks. Whenever we had
a chance, we go for a walk together. Sometimes for
a long time I was running, but even when we
would run, we spend part of that time walking and
just talking and connecting. And even if it's not like
we're not talking about really anything, like you know, what
(22:30):
do you think about that color that person was wearing
or something? I mean it is, it just gives you
that time to connect. And now we go for walks.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
When you all do spend time together, are you all
able because with your schedule, his schedule, the girl schedule,
do you all have a lot of one on one
time with the two of us or would you say
you all have more family time together when you're.
Speaker 11 (22:58):
What's a lovely thing about each girls is they don't
necessarily want to spend a lot of time with us,
want to be somewhere in our orbit.
Speaker 13 (23:07):
But sometimes all of a sudden get an evening free
and we'll say, how did this happen?
Speaker 6 (23:12):
You know?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Are you romantic or like, what's what's your demeanor when
you guys want to have a chance to connect.
Speaker 11 (23:18):
Yeah, probably more of the romantic.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Love look at.
Speaker 13 (23:27):
I think I'm pretty romantic. I think definitely more procedural,
like in the sense that let's make a plan, you know,
and so. But I don't know, does that is that
at odds with romanticism. I don't Know's an interesting question.
Speaker 11 (23:49):
But one of the things he does do that that's romantic.
But I think it's towards our whole family is in
the mornings, when he has to get up and go
before the rest of us, you always kind of will
leave the lights on and some music playing, and sometimes
you know, he'll turn the coffee pot on, or like
if it's cold, he'll turn the fireplace on, which is
nice to come down to.
Speaker 8 (24:08):
In the morning.
Speaker 13 (24:08):
I start my start cars for people and when.
Speaker 11 (24:11):
It's cold, you know, because that's an old like because
we're from Michigan, that's an old Michigan like seeing and
our kids are like, why are you starting? Used to
be really cold?
Speaker 13 (24:23):
I love that, I think because I was thinking about this, uh,
in anticipation of this interview. By the way, people don't
get to have nice conversations like this enough, I just
I'll just throw that in there, like it's funny. We
talk all the time, Rebecca and I, and yet we
probably don't really have conversations like this. But I think, oh,
let me just say what. I think that the the
(24:43):
idea that there's a lot of mutual respect for each other,
Like I think that that that ingredient more than maybe
any other, the the love at first sight, the intellectualism,
all of that mutual respect. Genuine respect, I think is
the hey and and also coupled with that is the
(25:03):
idea that I never question she has my best interests
in mind. I think when you have interactions with people
in your life, you do wonder they're competing interests, sometimes
with why they're telling you what they're telling you, or
and and and that's okay, that's not I'm not it's
not a criticism, that's life. But I think when you
have a partner who who you don't ever question that
(25:24):
they have your best interest in mind, that's a really
powerful thing and it's hard to find. It's hard to find,
and if you find it, you hang on to it.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
One of my favorite things about this conversation today is
that because people are our listeners are listening and they
can't see us. Is that every time Rebecca is talking, Sanjay,
you're just like looking at her and like just like.
Speaker 8 (25:49):
You're just like.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
You're just like lighting up, and all of every time
that is panic.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
And a daring love.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
I like to keep him on his toes.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Thank you for joining us for the best of my legacy.
New episodes drop every Tuesday. Don't forget to subscribe so
you never miss a moment.
Your partner is your guru. And one of my favorite
things about that is that your partner is really a mirror.
And the challenge we have in relationships is that the
right partner holds up the mirror in a non judgmental way,
but we're so convinced that the mirror is broken because
we don't like what we see that we reject them.
(00:26):
So we reject the one person who actually has the
ability to help us grow.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That was best selling author and On Purpose host Jay
Shetty reflecting on the hard truth and marriage growth isn't
always comfortable, especially when the person holding up the mirror
is the one you love. It's wedding season, and in
this best of episode of My Legacy, We're going Beyond
the Vows. Host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King,
Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger sit down with extraordinary couples
(00:54):
to uncover what it really takes to stay connected through conflict,
change and everything. In Beach Queen, we'll hear from Serena Jakes,
Bishop TD, Jakes's wife of forty three years, on why
the problem you ignore before your vows might be the
one that unravels you CNN's doctor Sanjea Gupta, I'm building
the foundation of trust in a high pressure world. Roddy
(01:17):
Devlukiya on why the smallest rituals can hold the biggest meaning.
And Sarah Jakes Roberts on learning to surrender her pride
as a strong single mother to create a new kind
of strength and marriage. First up, Jay Shetty on how
your partner is both your mirror and your teacher.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Jay.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
In your international best selling book Eight Rules of Love,
you talk about what it takes to nurture a relationship.
Can you give us one or two of your top
suggestions on how you can continuously strengthen bonds between couples.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
She'd be asking all of you this, but yeah, I'll
try my best. I'm sure there's a lot more wisdom
on that side of the table. So I feel underqualified,
but I would say one of my favorite one is
I have a chapter in the book called your partner
is Your Guru. And what I mean by that is
(02:10):
that not that they're an authoritative, judgmental, dictatorial individual, because
that's not what a guru is. A guru is someone
who's dedicated to your growth, who's committed to helping you
find your path and who's patient while you do it.
That's actually what a guru is, especially in the Eastern traditions.
(02:33):
And one of my favorite things about that is that
your partner is really a mirror. And the challenge we
have in relationships is that the right partner holds up
the mirror in a non judgmental way, but we're so
convinced that the mirror is broken because we don't like
what we see that we reject them. So we reject
(02:55):
the one person who actually has the ability to help
us grow. And so Radi has been completely non judgmental,
empathetic and compassionate about my health journey. When I met Radi,
I was addicted to sugar, I ate a lot of
fried food. I was fairly unhealthy physically, and because I
had a strong mind and meditated daily and felt like
(03:18):
I'd got somewhere with that journey, I felt like my
body almost didn't matter. I almost felt like it was
a afterthought. And she didn't teach me by telling me
I was wrong and that I was wasting time, that
I was being lazy, and that I should work out more,
because none of those things would have helped me. Because
my ego would have come to my defense and been
a shield and pushed back, and I would have been
(03:39):
affected by that, like I think we all are. Instead,
she set the example. She's worked out every day i've
known her. She's eaten a clean diet, she's always cooked
healthy food. She encouraged me and educated me in the
challenges of how I was living without making me feel
bad about them, and she's been my guru for my
health and so to me. When you're partners, your guru,
(04:00):
and you allow your partner to teach you in a
non judgmental, non confrontational, non finger pointing way, that is
the person who can help you grow. There's no one
on planet Earth who could make you a better human
being than the person you spend the most time with,
so that your partners, your guru is probably one of them.
And I think you said a couple. I would add
(04:23):
that the problem is we often want our partners to change,
but what we don't have is the patience that it
takes to watch them change. And we also want them
to change into the people we want them to be,
not the people that they want them to be. We
see their potential and we say you must rise to this.
(04:46):
We see the possibility and we say, you must reach this.
We see the result for them that we've projected, and
we say, if you don't get to this, you've failed.
And never have we asked them who who do you
want to be? How do you want to live your life?
What are you trying to accomplish? And it's really interesting
(05:09):
to me that we believe, just because we want to
invest in them, that that care is greater than their ambition.
And I think we work so hard we want to
be their savior. We want to be the person to
solve all their problems, We want to be the person
who fixes everything for them, just to feel good about ourselves.
(05:31):
We don't actually want them to be happy. We just
want to be happy that we're doing something for them,
And so we don't really give them the patience, the time,
the energy to find who they are and move in
that direction for themselves, because we want to feel like
we're helping, we're fixing, We're I'm here to solve all
your problems, and in that you try to be the
person who saves them, but actually you push them away.
(05:53):
So those would be my two biggest things that I
think if we can on the first time, learn to
be a guru that's non judgmental, and on the second hand,
learn to be patient and let people become who they
want to be, not try to make them who we
want them to be.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
I rarely get sick, and I'm blessed and fortunate. But
a lot of that, in my mind is because every day,
not a day goes by that Andrea doesn't put out
vitamins from me. Now, I would like to be that's
a simple thing. I'd love to be able to do that,
and I will get there, But that constantly reinforces. You know,
(06:34):
when your partner loves you so much that they're very
concerned about your being healthy, being able to go out
into the world as many of us have to do.
So I want to ask you both, what simple thing
does your partner do to show that they love you?
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Ah, my gosh.
Speaker 7 (06:52):
Jason.
Speaker 6 (06:53):
Well, Jason very expressive person, but it's not just the
words that he uses, like he is someone who will
verbally check and be like, what can I do to
make you happier? Is there anyway I can help you?
And he says that to me on a regular basis.
So I think one part of it is being vocal
about how you want to be there for your partner,
which I actually wasn't very good at and I'm still
(07:14):
getting better at to actually vocalize it. I've you know,
in my mind, I'm I see myself more of an
active service, which is how I've seen my parents be.
So I'd be like, oh, but in my mind, I've
cooked a meal, and I've done this little thing and
and but sometimes you realize that actually having those vocal
moments are really important and how much that makes a
difference in a relationship. But then in action, it's like
(07:36):
the little things of you know, even if he's just
sat down, when I've sat down and I need something,
he'll get back up, Like if I won't get back up,
he'll get back up.
Speaker 7 (07:44):
To get it for me.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Or if I am feeling I know you still do it,
And you know, it's those little things where you just
notice someone going out of their way for you, because
not many people want to go out of their way
for you. And then another one is whenever I'm having
I'm quite an emotional person, and whenever he feels my
energy is a little bit off, he'll always no matter
(08:07):
what he's got going on, he'n always make space and
time to just check in and be like, do you
need help with anything? Can I sit with you? I
can work through whether it's a work thing, whether it's
a family thing. You know, he always creates the time
and space, no matter how busy, to have those moments
of connection if he feels like I really need it.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, so many as well. I think for me the
biggest one is I think when we first got married
and we moved to New York and then we were
kind of there for a couple of years, then moving
to LA and we've just been through so much change
and change that wasn't anticipated or expected, so change that
(08:44):
we both had planned to live our whole lives fifteen
minutes from our local temple in England and five minutes
away from Radi's parents' home. And actually that was one
of her requirements for us getting married, was that she
could be a one mile radius away from her parents'
home and I'd commit to that, and I genuinely had
(09:06):
committed to that. It was something that I thought was
very real. All of our friends are in that area,
families in that area. It made sense. And then all
of a sudden, my career took a turn in twenty
sixteen when this part of my life started to grow,
and it's continued to for the nine years, thankfully, And
if I'm completely honest, that was completely not part of
(09:27):
the plan, not my plan, not her plan, not our plan.
But it was what I couldn't even have dreamed of.
And not once in the last nine years has Radi
ever said to me, look what I gave up for you.
And oh God, I could cry saying this, but it's
(09:47):
one of those things. It's like, I know how much
her parents mean to her, no much her family friends
mean to her. I know how much London means to her,
and for her to move away, for her to give
that up when we didn't have clarity, like you know,
we're very fortunate today to have a wonderful life, but
(10:08):
getting here wasn't easy. I was away a lot, I
traveled a lot for work, I was building things, moving around.
And never once did she say I gave this all
up for you. You're never around, you work too hard.
And I think that kind of trust, without nagging, without
(10:29):
making someone feel bad, when I was already carrying the
burden of it myself, And I think that's the feeling
that makes you feel loved where you're like, I was
already feeling that way myself, So if she would have
said it to me, it probably would have broken me.
But the fact that she didn't feel that she had
to say it to me makes me feel loved. So
(10:49):
not blaming, not shaming, not pushing, not prodding is is.
It feels like a small thing, but actually it's huge.
And even at the moment the difficult times in our life,
whether we were financially struggling, you know, struggling with moving, changing,
whatever things were going on in our life, every time
(11:10):
I'd update her on what would happen, she'd always say,
I trust you. And hearing your partner say that when
you don't even know what's going to happen next is
the greatest sign of love. And so and and you know,
she radly decided to date me and commit to a
relationship with me when I had nothing to offer about myself.
(11:32):
And so that's a pretty big thing. She she could
have married anyone she wanted to marry, and so her
decision to be with someone who didn't have a even
a secure job when we first started dating, and you know,
someone who'd been in the monastery for three years and
didn't have any sort of savings or any sort of plan.
I think it shows her character and her ability to,
(11:55):
you know, go beyond material things. And and the more
recent one, I mean I could go on as well.
I think the more recently I need to get one.
Radi's never let me define my self worth based on
my success. So when I first started to experience success,
(12:15):
RADI didn't celebrate it in the way I wanted her
to and I would want. Look, I'd wanted my wife
to be my number one fan and my biggest cheerleader,
and she wasn't for my career. But I had to
realize if I skewed my perspective, she was for who
I was, So if it came to my character, that's
(12:36):
what she was backing. She wasn't backing me because of
my career. And that took me. That helped me detach
from valuing myself based on the success of my career,
because I think that's what I would have done and
what I would have wanted if she had fallen in
that way. And so her lack of validation for my
career was the greatest validation for my career.
Speaker 8 (12:58):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Great, but I think it's a c And again going
back to the men point, I think a lot of
men like we want our partners to be like front row.
We want them to be the cheerleader, like we've we've
got that culture. And I'm not saying that my wife
isn't my cheerleading that, But I'm saying, your wife's cheerleading
your character, not your career. That's better because the career
(13:21):
is up and down. Like the career is going to
do whatever it's going to do, but your characters who
you are, Like what do you want to be loved for?
Do you want to be loved for the amount of
followers you have? Or do you want to be loved
for who you are and how you show up and
what she believes you represent? And so I think it's
genuinely we're laughing about it, and it can have funny connotations,
but I want to clarify, Like the point is, I
(13:41):
think we all want to be loved for who we
are and not loved for what we achieve.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
I did start listening to your podcast last year.
Speaker 9 (13:53):
Guys are hilarious.
Speaker 10 (13:54):
I love this.
Speaker 9 (13:56):
I love that your your voice was cracking, like they
I should stop stopping going I can see like Roddie's
eyes starting welling out the two of you. It's awesome.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
There are a great lesson in the languages of love, yes,
and acknowledging that that you know that we all love
different ways and we receive love differently.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Coming up, Serena Jakes brings forty years of marriage and
counseling wisdom. She'll share the one mistake couples make early
on and why ignoring it might cost you your marriage.
Speaker 10 (14:36):
Now back to my legacy, after more than forty years
of marriage and a ministering to so many couples, what's
one simple thing that couples often miss when it comes
to staying connected?
Speaker 11 (14:52):
Great question.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yes, I was thinking. I do the premarital counseling for
a lot of the couples, and they do a survey
where at that particular time they answer a question or
a statement and say this is how I feel now.
And so when I go back with that survey with
them go through it, I found out that most of
(15:16):
the time, most of the time, whatever the problem is
at the beginning of the marriage will become the problem
that disrupts the marriage, whether it's the fact that you
overspend or you uh you've got children and their bonus children,
(15:37):
or the in laws or the outlaws, or or or
the the n the time spent doing things that are extracurricular.
So I've found out in our marriage that the very
thing that I do now I did then the same
way that I treat him, then I still treat him. Now.
(16:01):
Does he get on my nurse? I would say occasional.
So I feel that if you start the relationship based
on the things that are important to one another and
not switch up, don't bait and switch, Like if you're
not going to make his plate for the rest of
(16:23):
the forty years, don't start it. If he's not going
to open the door for you when you get in
the car, and that's what you're expecting, you should let
him know that. But don't get in the middle of
the water and say, look, if you don't open this
door for me. So I feel like you have to
set a standard at the beginning of the marriage. These
(16:45):
are the things I expect from you. The I mean, truth, honesty,
all of that that they say with these new valves,
they want to rewrite the valels. They don't want to
be there for better or for worse. In sickness and
in health. They don't want to forsake all others. They
don't want to do that, but it is what it is.
I don't care how you want to make it flow
(17:07):
through the rivers. When I saw you walking through the
door and the clouds gathered above your head and it
rained one drop on you, and I knew that you
were the one. They want to write that sounds good,
but in theory better for worse sickness and in health,
forsaking all others, richer or for poorer, because you're going
(17:28):
to hit all of those milestones throughout your marriage. And
so I feel like it is what it is, you know,
And I'll hit a milestone with him, and I'll think, Wow,
this is in sickness and in health.
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Or I'll hit something when we went through and we
didn't have any water, or we didn't have any food
for the children, or we were on wick and food stamps,
richer or for poorer and forsaking all others. Cling to him,
you have to, you have to or that's not your guy.
(18:05):
And so many people ended divorce and it really scares
me because you never know. Yesterday I was at a
memorial service and they were talking about how going up
the hill to Jerusalem that you would find that there
were dens of thieves along the way and you would
fall into those traps, but you still had to keep
(18:26):
moving forward. And so I'm just thinking when those things
happened along the way during our forty two years of marriage,
I can see where there were as we traveled upward,
rich or poor, sickness and health, there were little entrapments, snares,
if you will, that would waylay us unless we decided
(18:51):
that we were going to stick together.
Speaker 7 (18:56):
You thought that you did not ever want to get remarried.
Oh yeah, but then someone changed your mind. Oh yeah,
and this is what you wrote on Instagram. The vulnerability
required to become one after you fought to become whole
is not often discussed. I had to surrender my identity
(19:17):
as a powerful single mother to discover my power as
a married woman.
Speaker 12 (19:24):
Yeah, nasty work, you know. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
You know.
Speaker 12 (19:32):
I got to a space where I was healthy, I'd
bought a home for me and my children, and I thought,
this is the dream. Like I thought that getting married
and having the white picket fence was the dream. I
saw that white picket finch just keep falling off over
and over again. And I said, you know what, fine,
I love being my mindself. I'll travel the world. I'm
still young. Everything will be fine. Then I met this man,
(19:56):
and in meeting.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Him, I just.
Speaker 12 (20:00):
I love the way the world looked through his eyes.
It was a compliment to the way the world looked
through my eyes. But it also had so much more
vibrancy and color, and there was so much more care
and depth for people and opportunities. And I thought to myself,
I think that he would make me better. You know,
(20:20):
as we talk about this better better, But I will
say that I underestimated the transformation necessary for me to
let go of the pride of being like, oh my gosh,
I made it. I'm this, you know, single mother who
bought this house. And I can make good decisions and
I can take care of my family. I can I
can bring home the bacon and fried in a pan.
(20:42):
And now I have someone who's like, hey, I could
grab the pan, or hey I could bring home the bacon.
And I think I did have a sense of pride
and identity connected to that. I never wanted to need
a man again. I never wanted to feel like my
life would fall apart if something happened, and I think
in the resistance of one onness that I could have
lost out on the opportunity to experience the beauty of oneness.
(21:06):
And so that took a lot of work. He's got
some battle scars, God bless him. But my life I
wantman evolved when exists if it wasn't for him, because
his ability to create space for me to dream and
to believe in those dreams and to say they're not crazy,
they're possible, gave me the courage to actually pursue them.
(21:27):
So he's definitely been a north star for me for
many years.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Now, coming up, CNN's Doctor, Sanche Gutta opens up about
the lessons that have kept his marriage strong for two decades.
Subscribe and share. You won't want to miss this.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 8 (21:52):
Well, what is the secret?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Though?
Speaker 8 (21:53):
The two of you have been happily made for twenty
years and extraordinarily of any lives, Like, let's just call
it what it is like you're on television, as you said,
you're whisking back for dinner. You know America's doctor. You
run your own law firm or back up for goodness
sakes and raise three daughters between the two of you, Like,
how do you stay connected?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well?
Speaker 11 (22:08):
One of the big things And again I give Someday
credit for this. We'd go for walks. Whenever we had
a chance, we go for a walk together. Sometimes for
a long time I was running, but even when we
would run, we spend part of that time walking and
just talking and connecting. And even if it's not like
we're not talking about really anything, like you know, what
(22:30):
do you think about that color that person was wearing
or something? I mean it is, it just gives you
that time to connect. And now we go for walks.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
When you all do spend time together, are you all
able because with your schedule, his schedule, the girl schedule,
do you all have a lot of one on one
time with the two of us or would you say
you all have more family time together when you're.
Speaker 11 (22:58):
What's a lovely thing about each girls is they don't
necessarily want to spend a lot of time with us,
want to be somewhere in our orbit.
Speaker 13 (23:07):
But sometimes all of a sudden get an evening free
and we'll say, how did this happen?
Speaker 6 (23:12):
You know?
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Are you romantic or like, what's what's your demeanor when
you guys want to have a chance to connect.
Speaker 11 (23:18):
Yeah, probably more of the romantic.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Love look at.
Speaker 13 (23:27):
I think I'm pretty romantic. I think definitely more procedural,
like in the sense that let's make a plan, you know,
and so. But I don't know, does that is that
at odds with romanticism. I don't Know's an interesting question.
Speaker 11 (23:49):
But one of the things he does do that that's romantic.
But I think it's towards our whole family is in
the mornings, when he has to get up and go
before the rest of us, you always kind of will
leave the lights on and some music playing, and sometimes
you know, he'll turn the coffee pot on, or like
if it's cold, he'll turn the fireplace on, which is
nice to come down to.
Speaker 8 (24:08):
In the morning.
Speaker 13 (24:08):
I start my start cars for people and when.
Speaker 11 (24:11):
It's cold, you know, because that's an old like because
we're from Michigan, that's an old Michigan like seeing and
our kids are like, why are you starting? Used to
be really cold?
Speaker 13 (24:23):
I love that, I think because I was thinking about this, uh,
in anticipation of this interview. By the way, people don't
get to have nice conversations like this enough, I just
I'll just throw that in there, like it's funny. We
talk all the time, Rebecca and I, and yet we
probably don't really have conversations like this. But I think, oh,
let me just say what. I think that the the
(24:43):
idea that there's a lot of mutual respect for each other,
Like I think that that that ingredient more than maybe
any other, the the love at first sight, the intellectualism,
all of that mutual respect. Genuine respect, I think is
the hey and and also coupled with that is the
(25:03):
idea that I never question she has my best interests
in mind. I think when you have interactions with people
in your life, you do wonder they're competing interests, sometimes
with why they're telling you what they're telling you, or
and and and that's okay, that's not I'm not it's
not a criticism, that's life. But I think when you
have a partner who who you don't ever question that
(25:24):
they have your best interest in mind, that's a really
powerful thing and it's hard to find. It's hard to find,
and if you find it, you hang on to it.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
One of my favorite things about this conversation today is
that because people are our listeners are listening and they
can't see us. Is that every time Rebecca is talking, Sanjay,
you're just like looking at her and like just like.
Speaker 8 (25:49):
You're just like.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
You're just like lighting up, and all of every time
that is panic.
Speaker 9 (26:00):
And a daring love.
Speaker 7 (26:02):
I like to keep him on his toes.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Thank you for joining us for the best of my legacy.
New episodes drop every Tuesday. Don't forget to subscribe so
you never miss a moment.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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