August 21, 2025 • 19 mins
In this special Best of My Legacy bonus episode, hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger revisit powerful conversations with women who have redefined what it means to be strong.
From the grit we inherit to the vulnerability we choose, these trailblazers share the moments that shaped them — and the people who helped them hold onto their voice.
In this episode, you’ll hear:
- Mel Robbins on building grit and asking for what you deserve
- Sarah Jakes Roberts on giving the next generation permission to be who they are
- Jemele Hill on why real strength includes vulnerability
Don’t miss an episode – subscribe now to catch new episodes every Tuesday and bonus content every Thursday. And watch full episodes on YouTube every Wednesday.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's
not necessarily a bad thing, but it can't be a
crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we
always have to wear this cape, and that if we're
not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect.
We also don't want to fall into the trap of
always thinking that we have to be somebody else's savior,
(00:23):
because sometimes the person that needs the most saving is us.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
That was Jamel Hill, Award winning sports journalist, sharing her
hard won lessons about redefining strength. In this Best of
My Legacy bonus drop, hosts Martin Luther King the Third,
Andrea Waters, King, Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger celebrate their
conversation with groundbreaking women who fought to find their voice
and the people who help them hold on to it.
(00:49):
We'll hear Jamel Hill on finding a balance between strength
and vulnerability and how you know you have the right
person in your corner. Sarah Jakes Roberts and her mother
Serita Jake on breaking generational cycles, reclaiming your voice and
rising together. First up, Mel Robbins on how grit is built,
strength is learned, and why both are passed down in
(01:11):
unexpected ways.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, let's get in. You know, Mel, we've all heard
through the books, the podcast, your incredible life journey so far,
and so much of your legacy that was shaped from
where you were raised, proud Midwestern through and through. Yes,
so can you take us back way back to those
early days and some of these stories and moments that
shaped your view of legacy and the impact you have
made on the world today.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What I have been reflecting upon is I've been thinking
about this topic of legacy and the extreme honor it
is to be here and talk to you all about
this and unpack this topic. Is that even as a
little girl, I remember my mom being very, very involved
in service ly and I remember how she would go
(01:54):
down to the farmer's market and it would take forever
because she would talk to every single far armor there,
didn't matter what they were growing or what they were selling.
She knew their names, she knew their grandchildren, she knew
the dog's name, she knew how to pick out a
peach versus how to I mean, it was just amazing.
And my father every Thursday would always go up to Shelby,
(02:16):
Michigan because they didn't have a hospital so he would
be in a clinic, so he could be the surgeon
on and so there's always just this service minded thing.
And the other thing that really struck me is I
remember my mom. My mom's got a lot of moxy,
and I just I really get a lot of my
gumption to just try things from her. And I remember
(02:38):
at one point she and her best friend Susie decided
they were going to open a store in downtown Muskegan, Michigan,
and they weren't going to do it in the mall
because she wanted to do it her way, which I
just love. And so she opened it, you know, a
block away from the mall, and it was a kitchen
gourmet store. Now I'm talking nineteen eighty two. This was
before the big stores, was before flavored coffee was a.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Thing, and it was showing the time of tublewhere parties.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
That's right, that's right, that's right. And so she's like,
I just want to do this thing. I remember they
went to the bank that my parents banked, and my
mom and Susie walked in and they were just looking
for a small line of credit to start this little business, right,
and they were going to go to the Chicago Gift Show,
and they knew what they were going to like get
because they were both big cooks, and they're all excited
to sell the vanilla coffee because they didn't have that Muskegan, Michigan.
(03:28):
So they go to the bank where we have all
of our banking like everything, the mortgage, the bank, everything,
And so my mom and Susie walk in there, and
Susie is a customer too with her husband, and they
go to apply for a loan and they're filling out
the paperwork and the people are like, this should be
no problem, and then all of a sudden they say, well,
you're just going to have to have your husband's co signed.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Yes, oh yes, my mom.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
My mom stood up, walked over to the teller and
proceeded to start to close the counts one by one.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Wow, because she was a co signer on every account.
I'll tell you what she got that loan.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
And so it also just struck me that.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
In just little ways you can make a difference in
your community that you know, you don't get what you
don't ask for, and you know, just kind of the
value of putting your head down and chipping away at
things over time, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Sarah, you grew up in one of the most extraordinary,
influential faith families here in America. Can you share with
us a recollection or story from your childhood and help
us to understand what's it like growing up as a Jinx.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
You know, I have this one photo of me. We're
at this conference and I was back to the Bible,
and it's my sister and I sitting on the front row.
My mother's mother, my granny is sitting beside us, and
we're standing and we're looking at this stage and my
sister looks so excited, and I look like a little confused,
a little amazed. And I think that that probably encapsulates
(05:16):
what it meant to be part of such a large family.
That there were these moments of pure just awe and
amazement and just wonder at what was taking place, And
then there were some moments of confusion where I wondered,
how do I fit into that? Do I fit into that?
And I think balancing that tension of confusion and amazement
(05:37):
is ultimately what allowed me to discover my own identity.
But it was both brilliant and challenging in many ways.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
You know, I know a little something maybe about being
a preacher's.
Speaker 9 (05:53):
Kidd but there obviously are additional dynamics when your parents
are larger than life. And so missus Jakes, how did
you help Sarah navigate through those potential challenges that would come.
Speaker 10 (06:15):
Well, you know, when I think of a legacy, I
was thinking today, you're looking forward, but you're also looking backwards.
And when we got to this huge city, I did
not realize that I was going to have to move
to the forefront and that my children would be left
alone without me hedging them on either side. And my
mother died shortly after we got here. So in hindsight,
(06:39):
I would have done what she does. She'd makes certain
that her children are wherever she is. I wish I
had done that more. And so seeing her overcome the
lack of my presence to try to do it differently
than I would have even thought to do, it's amazing
(07:01):
to me.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
I will say, though, even though you guys had a
lot of responsibilities and a lot of things going on,
I think one of the things that my mother did
is that when she was present, she was completely present.
You would let us sleep in the bed with you.
We would always be doing dinner like you'd have us
running around doing errands with you, like I never felt
like a burden to you. And I think because I
(07:24):
never felt like a burden, I always felt like I
could be seen and heard and valued. And we needed
those pockets of that in a moment where all attention
was like maybe on my dad or maybe on the
both of them. My mom was the space where we
could take the stage and she would be our audience
and we could put on whatever raggedy gift or cooking menu,
(07:44):
our little recipes or auditions and dance and plays like
she made us feel like stars in the moments that
she was able to look at us. And so I
think that you preserved our special even as you were balancing.
Speaker 10 (07:57):
All those things. Oh where's the.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Had to be such a tremendous amount of weight on
you to, you know, to be balancing all of that
and to be a mom, and so to hear your
daughter giving you, I think that those much needed accolades
is beautiful.
Speaker 10 (08:16):
It's so beautiful because you know how the enemy will
try to rob you with guilt and would have, should have,
could us And so I'm so I knew you felt
that way, but to have you articulated today I'm a
little weepy.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
Yeah, missus Jakes. When you see who your daughter has become,
what are you most proud of?
Speaker 10 (08:39):
I think the fact that she survived that I'm grateful
that she survived. There was so many the vicissitudes of
her life. A lot I didn't know until she wrote
about it. A lot of it I witnessed first time.
(08:59):
But to know that she survived at all, you know,
pearls are formed in irritation, and diamonds come from cold,
and people always want the end result, but they didn't
see the story along the way. So when I see
her ministering and her first woman evolved, this is her
(09:22):
generation that seeks hope. And so when I see her,
I feel like, you go girl, you go girl. But
at the same time, I'm the watchman on the wall,
and it's like, don't don't, don't disrespect her, don't try
(09:47):
to disrupt what God is doing at that moment, because
you know, some people will come and they want to
outspeak her without the MC. So I'm the one that says,
sh hush, stop it. It's not your turn. And so
I'm I'm most in awe of the gift of God
(10:09):
that's in her and flowing through her. I don't. I
don't see her as my daughter. I see her as
God's messenger of hope for me, for her daughter, for
my mother, and you doing what I was unable to do,
(10:31):
and and the stance that you've taken upon the centuries
of hard labor that our mothers are are the female
generation had to go through. But as uh. And so
when I see her, I see glory. When I hear her,
I hear glory. When I'm in the room with her,
(10:54):
I feel glory. And so that's that's I just Hollywood
oopscuse say Halleylujah.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
You can say hallelujah on this podcast?
Speaker 7 (11:04):
Can I say? Though, to the point of the podcast
being about legacy, this is my belief. So when people
hear me speak, I think the low hanging fruit. The
easy thing to say is, oh, my God, she's stepping
into her father's footsteps and she's doing exactly what her
father did. And I honor my father, and I believe
so much about what I understand about God and people
(11:26):
is a part of what I have seen him demonstrate
through his ministry and what He's allowed me to be
exposed to. However, I will say that I believe wholeheartedly
that I am the woman in ministry that my mother
did not have permission to be.
Speaker 10 (11:47):
That's deep. I'm glad I've got on boots.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
When people talk about the things that they like about
me or love about me, they are all the things
that I attribute to my mother's presence in my life.
My mother was a woman at a different time, in
a different error, and women in ministry looked a lot
different when she was coming up, and my mother's ability
(12:17):
to give me permission to be who I was was
a seed that made me want to give other women
permission to be who they are. And so as much
as I love that people see that connection between me
and my father, part of the reason why I even
wanted her on here is because she is the secret
sauce of who I am, and I feel like my
(12:39):
legacy is to make sure that my mother is remembered.
My legacy is to make sure that who she is
lives on in the earth. I've got her mother's obituary
in my office. My kids know about my granny. My
granny died when I was seven years old, and my
(12:59):
kids know about her smelling like cherry almond lotion and
making sure that we are all moisturized than fed, because
I just feel like she's too significant to be in
anyone's shadow. And I think every time the light is
on me, it's on us because I got to be
who she wasn't able to be at the time, and
(13:22):
I just I love that this is an opportunity for
me to share who she is with the world, because
I just who I am is just directly connected.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
To who she is.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Directly coming up, Jamel Hill reminds us strength doesn't mean
carrying it all. Don't forget to subscribe and share so
you don't miss an episode.
Speaker 11 (13:47):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
One of the things you said in the past, Jamail,
is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape off.
And I love that. I think there's so many women
in general, and Black women in particular, I feel as
if we have to be so strong for everyone and
everything and to have a soft space. And it also
ties into when you introduce him, you use the word vulnerable,
(14:10):
that he allows you to be vulnerable. Can you just
talk a little bit and share with our listeners and
unfold what that means to you.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I mean, I think you're exactly right that you know
because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's
not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a
crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we
always have to wear this cape, and that if we're
not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect.
(14:39):
And while it's true that we certainly have to have
our armor on, we certainly have to be ready for
all the things that are coming at us. We also
don't want to fall into the trap of always thinking
that we have to be somebody else's savior, because sometimes
the person that needs the most saving is us. And
probably the best thing that we can do for ourselves
(15:01):
is fine people a community places where we don't always
have to be the one that comes up with the solution,
always have to be the one who sacrifices always had
you know, we don't have to constantly put ourselves in
that mode. I mean, listen, we say what kind of
we save the democracy is like at some point, like
we have to really save ourselves. And what I loved
(15:25):
about our relationship is like, my husband's a great communicator,
and even though I might be in media, while I
can certainly communicate, I think it has always been difficult
for me to communicate vulnerability for me to be comfortable
in that soft place and just organically and naturally. It
was never a conversation that we had, but it was
(15:46):
through action and through communication that it was really easy
for me to see that this was some place that
I didn't have to always feel like I had to
be the strong one. But when you have trust in
your partner, it's easy to be vulnerable. And so because
I have such trust in him, it's easy for me
to do that.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
So was it hard then for you to find that place?
Because I think for so many women and we love
being strong. It really is who we are. But to
have that dance of also being vulnerable, you know again
like you know, we're out in the world, always say that,
you know, we've shown up for this country and now
it's also time for the country to show up for us.
(16:28):
And so for you to find that space also of
being vulnerable, to have a place to fall into. Was
that scary for you at first?
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Oh, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know, nobody goes willingly like you know, I don't
want to make it seem like, you know, vulnerability knocked
on the door, and I was like Hi, I'm ready,
Like no, it was. It was a process, as it
is for a lot of women, especially if you, you know, independent,
been used to doing everything on your own and used
to being your own savior, like it's hard to sometimes
(17:03):
relinquish some of that. So then to me, the responsibility
was on me to start to open up and to
share that and to be more vulnerable with him, because
he had shown me that he was more than capable
of being the soft place, the landing, the place where
I would feel that.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
Sense of comfort and peace.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
It was then on me to take my armor off,
to take off, you know, my battle gear, and be
that person with him.
Speaker 11 (17:32):
Well, Jamel, I love how you described the impact the
relationship has on you, and if I could shift it
back to you Ian, you know, if I could ask
what have you experienced being in that relationship with Jamel
and how has it changed how you show up in
a relationship.
Speaker 12 (17:46):
Well, being with the woman who's strongest Jamail, I was
never intimidated by it. It was actually something that I cherish,
you know, just having a strong woman and being therefore
and there was a wall that was up, you know,
initially when we met, but by trade I'm a salesperson,
(18:08):
so I ask a lot of questions and the questions
were genuine. It was organic, you know. I wanted to
know about her and you know, the different experiences that
she had in her life and learning from her. And
it was funny because I remember asking questions to her
mom and she's like, why are you asking so many questions?
And it's like, I just want to know. I'm just curious,
(18:30):
you know, I want to know. Jamel.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy Movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core. This podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection.
A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
(18:53):
executive producer Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's
not necessarily a bad thing, but it can't be a
crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we
always have to wear this cape, and that if we're
not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect.
We also don't want to fall into the trap of
always thinking that we have to be somebody else's savior,
(00:23):
because sometimes the person that needs the most saving is us.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
That was Jamel Hill, Award winning sports journalist, sharing her
hard won lessons about redefining strength. In this Best of
My Legacy bonus drop, hosts Martin Luther King the Third,
Andrea Waters, King, Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger celebrate their
conversation with groundbreaking women who fought to find their voice
and the people who help them hold on to it.
(00:49):
We'll hear Jamel Hill on finding a balance between strength
and vulnerability and how you know you have the right
person in your corner. Sarah Jakes Roberts and her mother
Serita Jake on breaking generational cycles, reclaiming your voice and
rising together. First up, Mel Robbins on how grit is built,
strength is learned, and why both are passed down in
(01:11):
unexpected ways.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, let's get in. You know, Mel, we've all heard
through the books, the podcast, your incredible life journey so far,
and so much of your legacy that was shaped from
where you were raised, proud Midwestern through and through. Yes,
so can you take us back way back to those
early days and some of these stories and moments that
shaped your view of legacy and the impact you have
made on the world today.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
What I have been reflecting upon is I've been thinking
about this topic of legacy and the extreme honor it
is to be here and talk to you all about
this and unpack this topic. Is that even as a
little girl, I remember my mom being very, very involved
in service ly and I remember how she would go
(01:54):
down to the farmer's market and it would take forever
because she would talk to every single far armor there,
didn't matter what they were growing or what they were selling.
She knew their names, she knew their grandchildren, she knew
the dog's name, she knew how to pick out a
peach versus how to I mean, it was just amazing.
And my father every Thursday would always go up to Shelby,
(02:16):
Michigan because they didn't have a hospital so he would
be in a clinic, so he could be the surgeon
on and so there's always just this service minded thing.
And the other thing that really struck me is I
remember my mom. My mom's got a lot of moxy,
and I just I really get a lot of my
gumption to just try things from her. And I remember
(02:38):
at one point she and her best friend Susie decided
they were going to open a store in downtown Muskegan, Michigan,
and they weren't going to do it in the mall
because she wanted to do it her way, which I
just love. And so she opened it, you know, a
block away from the mall, and it was a kitchen
gourmet store. Now I'm talking nineteen eighty two. This was
before the big stores, was before flavored coffee was a.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Thing, and it was showing the time of tublewhere parties.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
That's right, that's right, that's right. And so she's like,
I just want to do this thing. I remember they
went to the bank that my parents banked, and my
mom and Susie walked in and they were just looking
for a small line of credit to start this little business, right,
and they were going to go to the Chicago Gift Show,
and they knew what they were going to like get
because they were both big cooks, and they're all excited
to sell the vanilla coffee because they didn't have that Muskegan, Michigan.
(03:28):
So they go to the bank where we have all
of our banking like everything, the mortgage, the bank, everything,
And so my mom and Susie walk in there, and
Susie is a customer too with her husband, and they
go to apply for a loan and they're filling out
the paperwork and the people are like, this should be
no problem, and then all of a sudden they say, well,
you're just going to have to have your husband's co signed.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
Yes, oh yes, my mom.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
My mom stood up, walked over to the teller and
proceeded to start to close the counts one by one.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Wow, because she was a co signer on every account.
I'll tell you what she got that loan.
Speaker 6 (04:18):
And so it also just struck me that.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
In just little ways you can make a difference in
your community that you know, you don't get what you
don't ask for, and you know, just kind of the
value of putting your head down and chipping away at
things over time, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Sarah, you grew up in one of the most extraordinary,
influential faith families here in America. Can you share with
us a recollection or story from your childhood and help
us to understand what's it like growing up as a Jinx.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
You know, I have this one photo of me. We're
at this conference and I was back to the Bible,
and it's my sister and I sitting on the front row.
My mother's mother, my granny is sitting beside us, and
we're standing and we're looking at this stage and my
sister looks so excited, and I look like a little confused,
a little amazed. And I think that that probably encapsulates
(05:16):
what it meant to be part of such a large family.
That there were these moments of pure just awe and
amazement and just wonder at what was taking place, And
then there were some moments of confusion where I wondered,
how do I fit into that? Do I fit into that?
And I think balancing that tension of confusion and amazement
(05:37):
is ultimately what allowed me to discover my own identity.
But it was both brilliant and challenging in many ways.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
You know, I know a little something maybe about being
a preacher's.
Speaker 9 (05:53):
Kidd but there obviously are additional dynamics when your parents
are larger than life. And so missus Jakes, how did
you help Sarah navigate through those potential challenges that would come.
Speaker 10 (06:15):
Well, you know, when I think of a legacy, I
was thinking today, you're looking forward, but you're also looking backwards.
And when we got to this huge city, I did
not realize that I was going to have to move
to the forefront and that my children would be left
alone without me hedging them on either side. And my
mother died shortly after we got here. So in hindsight,
(06:39):
I would have done what she does. She'd makes certain
that her children are wherever she is. I wish I
had done that more. And so seeing her overcome the
lack of my presence to try to do it differently
than I would have even thought to do, it's amazing
(07:01):
to me.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
I will say, though, even though you guys had a
lot of responsibilities and a lot of things going on,
I think one of the things that my mother did
is that when she was present, she was completely present.
You would let us sleep in the bed with you.
We would always be doing dinner like you'd have us
running around doing errands with you, like I never felt
like a burden to you. And I think because I
(07:24):
never felt like a burden, I always felt like I
could be seen and heard and valued. And we needed
those pockets of that in a moment where all attention
was like maybe on my dad or maybe on the
both of them. My mom was the space where we
could take the stage and she would be our audience
and we could put on whatever raggedy gift or cooking menu,
(07:44):
our little recipes or auditions and dance and plays like
she made us feel like stars in the moments that
she was able to look at us. And so I
think that you preserved our special even as you were balancing.
Speaker 10 (07:57):
All those things. Oh where's the.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Had to be such a tremendous amount of weight on
you to, you know, to be balancing all of that
and to be a mom, and so to hear your
daughter giving you, I think that those much needed accolades
is beautiful.
Speaker 10 (08:16):
It's so beautiful because you know how the enemy will
try to rob you with guilt and would have, should have,
could us And so I'm so I knew you felt
that way, but to have you articulated today I'm a
little weepy.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
Yeah, missus Jakes. When you see who your daughter has become,
what are you most proud of?
Speaker 10 (08:39):
I think the fact that she survived that I'm grateful
that she survived. There was so many the vicissitudes of
her life. A lot I didn't know until she wrote
about it. A lot of it I witnessed first time.
(08:59):
But to know that she survived at all, you know,
pearls are formed in irritation, and diamonds come from cold,
and people always want the end result, but they didn't
see the story along the way. So when I see
her ministering and her first woman evolved, this is her
(09:22):
generation that seeks hope. And so when I see her,
I feel like, you go girl, you go girl. But
at the same time, I'm the watchman on the wall,
and it's like, don't don't, don't disrespect her, don't try
(09:47):
to disrupt what God is doing at that moment, because
you know, some people will come and they want to
outspeak her without the MC. So I'm the one that says,
sh hush, stop it. It's not your turn. And so
I'm I'm most in awe of the gift of God
(10:09):
that's in her and flowing through her. I don't. I
don't see her as my daughter. I see her as
God's messenger of hope for me, for her daughter, for
my mother, and you doing what I was unable to do,
(10:31):
and and the stance that you've taken upon the centuries
of hard labor that our mothers are are the female
generation had to go through. But as uh. And so
when I see her, I see glory. When I hear her,
I hear glory. When I'm in the room with her,
(10:54):
I feel glory. And so that's that's I just Hollywood
oopscuse say Halleylujah.
Speaker 5 (11:02):
You can say hallelujah on this podcast?
Speaker 7 (11:04):
Can I say? Though, to the point of the podcast
being about legacy, this is my belief. So when people
hear me speak, I think the low hanging fruit. The
easy thing to say is, oh, my God, she's stepping
into her father's footsteps and she's doing exactly what her
father did. And I honor my father, and I believe
so much about what I understand about God and people
(11:26):
is a part of what I have seen him demonstrate
through his ministry and what He's allowed me to be
exposed to. However, I will say that I believe wholeheartedly
that I am the woman in ministry that my mother
did not have permission to be.
Speaker 10 (11:47):
That's deep. I'm glad I've got on boots.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
When people talk about the things that they like about
me or love about me, they are all the things
that I attribute to my mother's presence in my life.
My mother was a woman at a different time, in
a different error, and women in ministry looked a lot
different when she was coming up, and my mother's ability
(12:17):
to give me permission to be who I was was
a seed that made me want to give other women
permission to be who they are. And so as much
as I love that people see that connection between me
and my father, part of the reason why I even
wanted her on here is because she is the secret
sauce of who I am, and I feel like my
(12:39):
legacy is to make sure that my mother is remembered.
My legacy is to make sure that who she is
lives on in the earth. I've got her mother's obituary
in my office. My kids know about my granny. My
granny died when I was seven years old, and my
(12:59):
kids know about her smelling like cherry almond lotion and
making sure that we are all moisturized than fed, because
I just feel like she's too significant to be in
anyone's shadow. And I think every time the light is
on me, it's on us because I got to be
who she wasn't able to be at the time, and
(13:22):
I just I love that this is an opportunity for
me to share who she is with the world, because
I just who I am is just directly connected.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
To who she is.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Directly coming up, Jamel Hill reminds us strength doesn't mean
carrying it all. Don't forget to subscribe and share so
you don't miss an episode.
Speaker 11 (13:47):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
One of the things you said in the past, Jamail,
is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape off.
And I love that. I think there's so many women
in general, and Black women in particular, I feel as
if we have to be so strong for everyone and
everything and to have a soft space. And it also
ties into when you introduce him, you use the word vulnerable,
(14:10):
that he allows you to be vulnerable. Can you just
talk a little bit and share with our listeners and
unfold what that means to you.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I mean, I think you're exactly right that you know
because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's
not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a
crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we
always have to wear this cape, and that if we're
not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect.
(14:39):
And while it's true that we certainly have to have
our armor on, we certainly have to be ready for
all the things that are coming at us. We also
don't want to fall into the trap of always thinking
that we have to be somebody else's savior, because sometimes
the person that needs the most saving is us. And
probably the best thing that we can do for ourselves
(15:01):
is fine people a community places where we don't always
have to be the one that comes up with the solution,
always have to be the one who sacrifices always had
you know, we don't have to constantly put ourselves in
that mode. I mean, listen, we say what kind of
we save the democracy is like at some point, like
we have to really save ourselves. And what I loved
(15:25):
about our relationship is like, my husband's a great communicator,
and even though I might be in media, while I
can certainly communicate, I think it has always been difficult
for me to communicate vulnerability for me to be comfortable
in that soft place and just organically and naturally. It
was never a conversation that we had, but it was
(15:46):
through action and through communication that it was really easy
for me to see that this was some place that
I didn't have to always feel like I had to
be the strong one. But when you have trust in
your partner, it's easy to be vulnerable. And so because
I have such trust in him, it's easy for me
to do that.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
So was it hard then for you to find that place?
Because I think for so many women and we love
being strong. It really is who we are. But to
have that dance of also being vulnerable, you know again
like you know, we're out in the world, always say that,
you know, we've shown up for this country and now
it's also time for the country to show up for us.
(16:28):
And so for you to find that space also of
being vulnerable, to have a place to fall into. Was
that scary for you at first?
Speaker 8 (16:38):
Oh, it's terrifying.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know, nobody goes willingly like you know, I don't
want to make it seem like, you know, vulnerability knocked
on the door, and I was like Hi, I'm ready,
Like no, it was. It was a process, as it
is for a lot of women, especially if you, you know, independent,
been used to doing everything on your own and used
to being your own savior, like it's hard to sometimes
(17:03):
relinquish some of that. So then to me, the responsibility
was on me to start to open up and to
share that and to be more vulnerable with him, because
he had shown me that he was more than capable
of being the soft place, the landing, the place where
I would feel that.
Speaker 8 (17:22):
Sense of comfort and peace.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
It was then on me to take my armor off,
to take off, you know, my battle gear, and be
that person with him.
Speaker 11 (17:32):
Well, Jamel, I love how you described the impact the
relationship has on you, and if I could shift it
back to you Ian, you know, if I could ask
what have you experienced being in that relationship with Jamel
and how has it changed how you show up in
a relationship.
Speaker 12 (17:46):
Well, being with the woman who's strongest Jamail, I was
never intimidated by it. It was actually something that I cherish,
you know, just having a strong woman and being therefore
and there was a wall that was up, you know,
initially when we met, but by trade I'm a salesperson,
(18:08):
so I ask a lot of questions and the questions
were genuine. It was organic, you know. I wanted to
know about her and you know, the different experiences that
she had in her life and learning from her. And
it was funny because I remember asking questions to her
mom and she's like, why are you asking so many questions?
And it's like, I just want to know. I'm just curious,
(18:30):
you know, I want to know. Jamel.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,
and follow us on at my Legacy Movement on social
media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus
content every Thursday. At its core. This podcast honors doctor
King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection.
A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and
(18:53):
executive producer Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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