September 18, 2025 • 21 mins
In this My Legacy Bonus Drop, former U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy and his wife Dr. Alice Chen open up about raising emotionally intelligent kids, modeling healthy love, and why community is the ultimate medicine.
- The sleep advice that changed everything for their family
- What they’re teaching their kids about showing up for others
- How loneliness and disconnection quietly harm our health
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is my legacy. In this week's bonus drop, doctor
Vec Murphy, former US Surgeon General, and his wife, doctor
Alice Chen, talk about what it means to thrive in
life into relationships. The Vec shares the best advice he's
ever received, how they are modeling healthy relationships for their kids,
and the best prescription for disconnection. Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I know that your father was also a doctor who
also did house calls, actually going directly to his patients,
and in fact, you took that a little bit even father,
And the name of your podcast is called house Call,
so you really have used that dream and you are
literally living it out.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
You're absolutely right that the you know that has stuck
with me and it became the name of the podcast
that I had when I was in office. But the
other thing about it is when I was training in medicine,
we didn't really do house calls. It was a time
when house were sort of being phased out in a sense.
They were the things people used to do in the past,
but not the way medicine is practiced in the future.
(01:07):
But I did have the opportunity just a few times
early in training to visit patients in their homes and
I will tell you that it was really eye opening
for me because as many visits as I would have
with a patient talking to them about their circumstances, there
was something different when you actually went to their home.
I remember when older woman I was taking care of
in my clinic and I was worried that she was falling,
(01:30):
you know, at home, and I was trying to figure
out what is going on? Why is she falling? And
I would ask her questions and I don't know. I'm
trying to balance as best I can, but it's getting harder.
And finally I was able to make his call. And
when I visited her home, what I saw was that
the house was stacked with books and with other objects
that she had collected over the years that made the
(01:51):
hallways really narrow and hard to navigate. I saw that
the carpets were bunched up in rolls, which meant that
it was easy to trip. And I also particularly saw
that she was living at home alone right, and that
even though she had mentioned people come by the truth
that she was spending much of her time alone. And
as I watched her try to navigate from the living
(02:11):
room to the kitchen to the doorway, all of that scene,
I could see how difficult it was. So sometimes seeing
where people are in their natural settings for five minutes
can be more powerful than trying to talk to them
for an hour about what might be happening in their life.
And so I saw how powerful that was. And the
(02:33):
title House Calls for our podcast was really it was
based on the idea of trying to step into in
a figurative sense, people's homes and understand more about them
and about the world in which they were growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And in that podcast that House Calls and you talk
about you interview your guests about finding joy in their
lives and what that one piece of advice that changed
the way that you approach your own life.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So Josh Grobin, who's an extraordinary musician and singer a
member in the episode I did with him, you know,
he talked to me about, you know, about a teacher.
You know, he had a music teacher early on in
school who allowed him to take refuge in the music room,
(03:23):
you know, at a time, you know, early on in
his life when he often didn't feel like he fit
in or he wasn't comfortable, and that had a profound
impact on Josh, not just giving him the chance to
engage more in music and practice on his own and explore.
But it gave him a place of safety, and it
also taught him that there were people who look out
for you in life, this teacher, and the lesson I
(03:46):
took away from that is is that you never know
when small acts of kindness from you will make a
profound impact on someone else. And the science actually tells
us very clearly that we underestimate how much of a
contribution we make to other people's lives. We under just
made how much warmth they perceive in our interactions, and
we sometimes when I write them off and say, yeah,
(04:08):
that wasn't a big deal. I just said hello, But
it makes it real big difference. So I took that away.
The last one I'll just share with you is something
that came to me from in a conversation with Sebastian Younger,
who is a wonderful journalist and author who wrote this
extraordinary book Tribe, but then has written many books since then,
(04:29):
including one on a near death experience that he had
where he had an aneurysm that bursts when he was
in a remote location and it took him a long
time to get to medical care and he quite literally
almost died. And he reflected in a lot during that
time and the months after about what really mattered in life,
and our conversation found its way to children, because he
(04:50):
has two young young girls and we have two kids ourselves,
and I asked him, you know, as a new parent,
I remember very distinctly. I can feel it this as
I'm talking to, just the anxiety early on of being
a new parent and just not knowing so much of
the things that you feel you're supposed to know as
a parent. But sleep was a big one because our
(05:11):
first one had a really difficult time sleeping, and I
remember friends gave us books. We were reading stuff online
trying to figure out do we sleep train our child.
We tried that failed like seven times. I think it
was six times, seven times something at that but it
was very anxiety provoking. And finally I asked Sebastian actually
(05:31):
a little bit about how he approaches sleep with his children,
and when he said, gave me so much comfort. He said, Vivagu,
we just take this mattress and we unroll it on
the floor in the living room, and at bedtime, the
four of us just pilon to that mattress and we
sleep together because that's the way we've slept for thousands
(05:51):
of years as human beings. And my wife and I
felt some of the guilt that you know, we had
sort of felt over the years co sleeping with our
kids melt away because we had been told, Hey, if
you go sleep with your kids, are not going to
be independent, they're going to be able to fall asleep
on their own, They're going to be stunted for the
rest of their life. You're going to mar them socially,
(06:11):
like all kinds of things that we were told. But
somehow we just felt natural for us to sleep with
our kids. And Sebastian in that moment, reminded me that
what we were doing was actually consistent with how we've
seevevolve as human beings for thousands of years. And it
reminded me that when we can talk as parents openly
(06:31):
and honestly about some of these struggles, sometimes we can
find the comfort and support that so many of us
desperately need as parents, because a lot of us are
struggling alone.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Absolutely, and Alice, I know that you've said that, and
I love I love this so much that healing starts
with being acknowledging of what depletes you. I just think
that that's such a phenomenal line, is such a just
a very straight straightforward wait for all of us, but
(07:04):
particularly for women, to start looking at healing and wholeness.
And so what signs do you tell your patients to
look for when they're needing to unplug or they're looking
at what depletes them.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Part of it is really sort of thinking about who
you are in your best moments and then looking at
yourself as you are in this moment, and like, is
there a gap? Are you? You know that? I remember
there was a time when I was experiencing a lot
of burnout and I would sort of sneer at people
on the street for walking a little too close and
and and I was like, oh, that is entirely not
(07:38):
who I am. That's just that's just not it. Or
I'd just be irritated at little things that that shouldn't
be irritating me. And I see my.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Husband looking at me, he's given me the side.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
And sometimes it feels so big when you're in those
like most you're like the people are being annoying, that's
why it's not It's not me. And sometimes I mean
how often do we have an argument and I just say,
you know what, I just need to go to bed,
and in the morning it's like, hey, great, just see.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
What do you want to eat.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Not that sleeping fixes every problem, but I think I
think we we we tend to sort of get focused
on the big questions and the big issues in our
lives and then forget that I didn't need lunch. That's
why this issue, this problem is so hard for me
to deal with. If I just had a sandwich, just
(08:36):
a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, that's all I need
to be able to have a little oomph and feel
like I'm taken care of. I can. I can do this.
All I need is to call my mom or call
my best friend and have a little chitty chat in
order to deal with this problem at work, or this
problem in in in at home, or whatever problem in
the world. I think we forget that we have very
(08:59):
very basic needs of food, water, sleep, people for some people.
For me, like I have to have like like music, nature, plants,
like there are things that are really important to me.
Someone else it might be for this one it's it's
it's going to the gym. Sometimes I'm like, just go
to the gym later.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
This is why I love my Legacy podcast because we
get to hear all the cool, like the open stuff.
I'm suspecting this is the first time on the public record.
I was just like, I'm going to give you a prescription.
You might be search in general, go to the gym.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Shoes here go go.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
We love it. If you could share this episode with
someone who you admire, someone who shows up for you,
who cares about you, who lives their legacy every day,
We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Let me ask, in light of the fact course you're
both phrasing small children.
Speaker 6 (09:59):
What do you all trying to model were your kids
when it comes to relationships.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I think it was funny when you think about modeling
for your children, like constant like should I do this
in front of them? Should I do that in front
of them? Try not? Is it gonna scar them for life?
It's going to teach them something? Will they remember this forever?
Forget it entirely? I feel like you're definitely trying to
model for them the importance of being there, being there
(10:25):
for each other, being there for like people in our
in our nuclear family, being there for our our parents
and our sisters, being there for our friends, Like how
important relationships are. That they are more important than you know,
school work and learning algebra. Well they're not learning algebra.
(10:46):
They're saying young for it. Well he's trying to.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
But he's funny me because I was trying to explain
the concept of imaginary numbers to the kids, okay, like
and I was like, I think they can grasp this,
but like got made fun of.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
She's laughing now.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
But we do definitely try to like make it a
point that like, Okay, we're choosing to like be with
family over the summer, that we're choosing to sort of
like be with be with people and be there for people,
and like this person needs our help. That's why we're
that's where we're going and not just playing at home today.
So I think that's a that's a really important piece.
(11:25):
I think also like the vulnerability and talking about things,
I mean, you know, growing up in my household, like
my you know, very like sort of like traditional Chinese household.
You don't talk about feelings and things. You don't talk
about like loving each other. That's just weird. You give
somebody vowl a melon. I mean, I think both models work.
(11:48):
I think whether it's said or it's acted out, that
we are expressing how much we how much we love
each other. I think we're really trying to model that.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I think yeah, the building one else said, I
think we want we want our kids to learn what
it means to show up for other people, right, and
that means not waiting to be invited in, to respond
when somebody needs help, not waiting to check on someone.
(12:19):
It means not like letting your shyness or worry about
etiquette supersede you're responding with what somebody needs. I'll just
give you a simple example from yesterday, from two days ago.
We ended up in the children's er a couple of
days ago because my daughter was having difficulty with her
(12:42):
left with her right hip, and we didn't you know,
we're both doctors, but we're both adult doctors, right, and
so which means that when when our child is a problem,
we'll try our best to assess it. But we're also
cognizant of the fact that there's a lot we may
not know. So we did all the usual like aminations
maneuvers we would and in adult patient we realized there's
(13:03):
something something unusual that was happening with her hip, and
so we took her to the emergency room. And the
part that makes me really proud about is that my
son there was never a question that he was coming right.
He just assumed, like when he knew that she had
to go to the hospital. The first thing he did
is he reached over and he hugged her and he
held her clothes right, and then he came got in
(13:25):
the car. He came. When we got to the hospital.
We're in the in the in the you know, the
bay in the emergency room, and she climbs onto the
to the gurney and to the bed, and he climbs
right in with her because he knew that his place
is right next to her, right and to make sure
she's okay. As well, when she went for her ultrasound
(13:46):
of the hip, he came right along as well. There
wasn't a question that he was staying back in the room.
And it's that kind of like closeness, that sort of
like don't wait for permission, you know, but step up
and show up for the people you love. We want
them to learn that because and to instinctively practice that,
(14:06):
because I actually do think that that is the catalyst
for community. It's when people when neighbors don't wait to
be invited in, when they realize someone is struggling, they
show up with food, with support. When friends do that
for each other. I think so often we wait and
assume that if somebody needs us to ask for us,
so we don't want to intrude on them, we don't
(14:28):
want to invade their privacy. But so many people are
just waiting and hoping that somebody will show up in
their lives. And when we do, it can be an
extraordinary source of not just like joy and support for them,
but every time you show up or remind somebody that
they matter. And in a world where so many people
feel invisible, sometimes that's everything.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
And there's a flip side to that as well, which
is teaching them to accept help and accept kindness. I
feel like when soon to be moms, they don't actually
ask advice, You just give them advice. This is on
solicit advice. What I'm saying. I've come to say like
(15:12):
if anybody offers you anything, just say yes, because that's
something that I learned as a new mom, was like
you just need people to show up with food and
show up to hold the baby for five minutes because
you really do need that shower, like you just need people.
And I feel like it took me so long to
learn that lesson that I want our kids and right
now that they obviously accept help because they're seven and eight,
(15:33):
but as they get older and as it becomes the
independent people to just just let people in because people
also need to be let in and feel like they
matter to you because you're accepting their help.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And just to talk about guys for a moment here too.
It's such a good point al series is about moms,
and it reminded me. We got a message once, an
email from a member of the public who said, I'm
a new dad and I'm a doctor and my wife
is a doctor too, and I noticed that when our
son was born, all of her female friends were congratulating her,
(16:07):
asking her what help she needed, offering support, and none
of my male friends in the hospital like barely even
said anything about the fact that I had a child,
much less offered support, like what's going on here? Right?
That was his question to us. And I do think
that at some level that that men in particular, I
think have a hard time asking for help and often
(16:31):
even accepting help. I think because we bring everybody, like
boys and girls up, but particularly men up in a
culture which tells him that being masculine, being a real
man is about not needing other people. It's about being independent.
And independent means that you're on your own. You can
figure it all out on your own. It means you
don't if you experience like worry, fear or anxiety, et cetera,
(16:52):
you don't display that. So it's about stoicism and it's
about about not needing anyone else. And the truth is
that's just not that's contrary to human evolution that we
all need each other. So I think we want both
of our kids, you know, as a boy and a girl,
to both understand that it's okay to ask for help,
to be to need other people, and it's important to
(17:13):
show up for other people because we're all going to
need people at different points in our life and that frankly,
my life is just better when we're getting through things
together versus when we're alone. And even like normal everyday
challenges can feel overwhelming.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Well said, I love that. Just one last question before
we wrap. This has been such a remarkable conversation and
just on our four of us, I just want to
say thank you. As parents were so inspired by your messages,
we're so inspired by your prescriptions. Both of you should
have your prescription paths there on a regular basis. You're
both brilliant. I want to say thank you as well,
just to acknowledge something that you so kindly contributed to
(17:48):
the latest book that we all wrote together, which is
called What Is My Legacy? And you wrote a very
powerful piece in that book, and the book has done
extremely well, and we want to say thank you for
the contribution and how important the book is in terms
of defining one's legacy. The reason I share this is
that we look at the root cause of so many
issues that are keeping us away from what doctor King
(18:09):
called the beloved community, and that concept, the bloved community
is such a powerful concept in terms of where we
could be going if we so choose or choose as
a as a collective to move in that direction. Of course,
we're moving in a different direction, and a very opposite direction.
And we argue that so much of the challenges of
disconnection are causing these challenges, and that disconnection from ourselves,
(18:31):
disconnection from others, and disconnection from the world. How does
disconnection eventually go from disease to disease? Can you put
your prescription paths out and help us understand.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Through a few mechanisms. I think one, when we are
chronically lonely and disconnection from each other, that actually raises
stress levels in our body, and acutely stress can be helpful,
right like if a car is coming at you and
you suddenly see it, that triggers as stress for response
in your body that helps you recruit muscles, your blood
gets flowing, your blood pressure goes up, heart rate increases,
(19:04):
and all that helps you get out of the wayfast.
That's good stress response. The problem with stress is when
it's either extreme or prolonged, and when people are experiencing
chronic loneliness, for example in isolation. That prolonged stress can
then start to damage tissues and blood vessels and lead
to increase inflammation in the body, which we know then
(19:25):
increases or risk for heart disease, diabetes, and a variety
of other chronic illnesses. So that's a biological level, but
there's also practical ways in which when we're disconnected from people,
we often don't have the help that we need to
support healthy behaviors and sometimes to respond to illnesses. So,
for example, it's hard to just stay in a workout
(19:48):
routine all on your own, or to follow a certain
diet without the support of other people. For anyone who's
tried and failed, it's starting in your diet or workout routine,
and I will raise my hand on that one. Have
tried and failed a number of times. The things that
have made the difference between failure and success have often
been when there've been people around me to do it
with or to support me. If you don't have people
(20:08):
to help you get medications when you're not able to
get them on your own, take you to the doctor
to follow up appointments. Remind you, as so many spouses
do with each other, to go to the doctor in
their first place to get screening for colon cancer, breast cancer,
or other conditions. It's harder to get those done, so
through a variety of mechanisms, we see that actually social
connection is at a practical and biological level is essential
(20:33):
for good health.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe,
share and follow us on at my Legacy movement on
social media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with
bonus content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors
doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the power
(20:55):
of connection. A legacy Plus studio production distributed by iHeart
Media creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward come executive producer
Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
This is my legacy. In this week's bonus drop, doctor
Vec Murphy, former US Surgeon General, and his wife, doctor
Alice Chen, talk about what it means to thrive in
life into relationships. The Vec shares the best advice he's
ever received, how they are modeling healthy relationships for their kids,
and the best prescription for disconnection. Let's jump in.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I know that your father was also a doctor who
also did house calls, actually going directly to his patients,
and in fact, you took that a little bit even father,
And the name of your podcast is called house Call,
so you really have used that dream and you are
literally living it out.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
You're absolutely right that the you know that has stuck
with me and it became the name of the podcast
that I had when I was in office. But the
other thing about it is when I was training in medicine,
we didn't really do house calls. It was a time
when house were sort of being phased out in a sense.
They were the things people used to do in the past,
but not the way medicine is practiced in the future.
(01:07):
But I did have the opportunity just a few times
early in training to visit patients in their homes and
I will tell you that it was really eye opening
for me because as many visits as I would have
with a patient talking to them about their circumstances, there
was something different when you actually went to their home.
I remember when older woman I was taking care of
in my clinic and I was worried that she was falling,
(01:30):
you know, at home, and I was trying to figure
out what is going on? Why is she falling? And
I would ask her questions and I don't know. I'm
trying to balance as best I can, but it's getting harder.
And finally I was able to make his call. And
when I visited her home, what I saw was that
the house was stacked with books and with other objects
that she had collected over the years that made the
(01:51):
hallways really narrow and hard to navigate. I saw that
the carpets were bunched up in rolls, which meant that
it was easy to trip. And I also particularly saw
that she was living at home alone right, and that
even though she had mentioned people come by the truth
that she was spending much of her time alone. And
as I watched her try to navigate from the living
(02:11):
room to the kitchen to the doorway, all of that scene,
I could see how difficult it was. So sometimes seeing
where people are in their natural settings for five minutes
can be more powerful than trying to talk to them
for an hour about what might be happening in their life.
And so I saw how powerful that was. And the
(02:33):
title House Calls for our podcast was really it was
based on the idea of trying to step into in
a figurative sense, people's homes and understand more about them
and about the world in which they were growing up.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
And in that podcast that House Calls and you talk
about you interview your guests about finding joy in their
lives and what that one piece of advice that changed
the way that you approach your own life.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So Josh Grobin, who's an extraordinary musician and singer a
member in the episode I did with him, you know,
he talked to me about, you know, about a teacher.
You know, he had a music teacher early on in
school who allowed him to take refuge in the music room,
(03:23):
you know, at a time, you know, early on in
his life when he often didn't feel like he fit
in or he wasn't comfortable, and that had a profound
impact on Josh, not just giving him the chance to
engage more in music and practice on his own and explore.
But it gave him a place of safety, and it
also taught him that there were people who look out
for you in life, this teacher, and the lesson I
(03:46):
took away from that is is that you never know
when small acts of kindness from you will make a
profound impact on someone else. And the science actually tells
us very clearly that we underestimate how much of a
contribution we make to other people's lives. We under just
made how much warmth they perceive in our interactions, and
we sometimes when I write them off and say, yeah,
(04:08):
that wasn't a big deal. I just said hello, But
it makes it real big difference. So I took that away.
The last one I'll just share with you is something
that came to me from in a conversation with Sebastian Younger,
who is a wonderful journalist and author who wrote this
extraordinary book Tribe, but then has written many books since then,
(04:29):
including one on a near death experience that he had
where he had an aneurysm that bursts when he was
in a remote location and it took him a long
time to get to medical care and he quite literally
almost died. And he reflected in a lot during that
time and the months after about what really mattered in life,
and our conversation found its way to children, because he
(04:50):
has two young young girls and we have two kids ourselves,
and I asked him, you know, as a new parent,
I remember very distinctly. I can feel it this as
I'm talking to, just the anxiety early on of being
a new parent and just not knowing so much of
the things that you feel you're supposed to know as
a parent. But sleep was a big one because our
(05:11):
first one had a really difficult time sleeping, and I
remember friends gave us books. We were reading stuff online
trying to figure out do we sleep train our child.
We tried that failed like seven times. I think it
was six times, seven times something at that but it
was very anxiety provoking. And finally I asked Sebastian actually
(05:31):
a little bit about how he approaches sleep with his children,
and when he said, gave me so much comfort. He said, Vivagu,
we just take this mattress and we unroll it on
the floor in the living room, and at bedtime, the
four of us just pilon to that mattress and we
sleep together because that's the way we've slept for thousands
(05:51):
of years as human beings. And my wife and I
felt some of the guilt that you know, we had
sort of felt over the years co sleeping with our
kids melt away because we had been told, Hey, if
you go sleep with your kids, are not going to
be independent, they're going to be able to fall asleep
on their own, They're going to be stunted for the
rest of their life. You're going to mar them socially,
(06:11):
like all kinds of things that we were told. But
somehow we just felt natural for us to sleep with
our kids. And Sebastian in that moment, reminded me that
what we were doing was actually consistent with how we've
seevevolve as human beings for thousands of years. And it
reminded me that when we can talk as parents openly
(06:31):
and honestly about some of these struggles, sometimes we can
find the comfort and support that so many of us
desperately need as parents, because a lot of us are
struggling alone.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Absolutely, and Alice, I know that you've said that, and
I love I love this so much that healing starts
with being acknowledging of what depletes you. I just think
that that's such a phenomenal line, is such a just
a very straight straightforward wait for all of us, but
(07:04):
particularly for women, to start looking at healing and wholeness.
And so what signs do you tell your patients to
look for when they're needing to unplug or they're looking
at what depletes them.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Part of it is really sort of thinking about who
you are in your best moments and then looking at
yourself as you are in this moment, and like, is
there a gap? Are you? You know that? I remember
there was a time when I was experiencing a lot
of burnout and I would sort of sneer at people
on the street for walking a little too close and
and and I was like, oh, that is entirely not
(07:38):
who I am. That's just that's just not it. Or
I'd just be irritated at little things that that shouldn't
be irritating me. And I see my.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Husband looking at me, he's given me the side.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
And sometimes it feels so big when you're in those
like most you're like the people are being annoying, that's
why it's not It's not me. And sometimes I mean
how often do we have an argument and I just say,
you know what, I just need to go to bed,
and in the morning it's like, hey, great, just see.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
What do you want to eat.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Not that sleeping fixes every problem, but I think I
think we we we tend to sort of get focused
on the big questions and the big issues in our
lives and then forget that I didn't need lunch. That's
why this issue, this problem is so hard for me
to deal with. If I just had a sandwich, just
(08:36):
a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, that's all I need
to be able to have a little oomph and feel
like I'm taken care of. I can. I can do this.
All I need is to call my mom or call
my best friend and have a little chitty chat in
order to deal with this problem at work, or this
problem in in in at home, or whatever problem in
the world. I think we forget that we have very
(08:59):
very basic needs of food, water, sleep, people for some people.
For me, like I have to have like like music, nature, plants,
like there are things that are really important to me.
Someone else it might be for this one it's it's
it's going to the gym. Sometimes I'm like, just go
to the gym later.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
This is why I love my Legacy podcast because we
get to hear all the cool, like the open stuff.
I'm suspecting this is the first time on the public record.
I was just like, I'm going to give you a prescription.
You might be search in general, go to the gym.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Shoes here go go.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
We love it. If you could share this episode with
someone who you admire, someone who shows up for you,
who cares about you, who lives their legacy every day,
We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
Now back to my legacy.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Let me ask, in light of the fact course you're
both phrasing small children.
Speaker 6 (09:59):
What do you all trying to model were your kids
when it comes to relationships.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
I think it was funny when you think about modeling
for your children, like constant like should I do this
in front of them? Should I do that in front
of them? Try not? Is it gonna scar them for life?
It's going to teach them something? Will they remember this forever?
Forget it entirely? I feel like you're definitely trying to
model for them the importance of being there, being there
(10:25):
for each other, being there for like people in our
in our nuclear family, being there for our our parents
and our sisters, being there for our friends, Like how
important relationships are. That they are more important than you know,
school work and learning algebra. Well they're not learning algebra.
(10:46):
They're saying young for it. Well he's trying to.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
But he's funny me because I was trying to explain
the concept of imaginary numbers to the kids, okay, like
and I was like, I think they can grasp this,
but like got made fun of.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
She's laughing now.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
But we do definitely try to like make it a
point that like, Okay, we're choosing to like be with
family over the summer, that we're choosing to sort of
like be with be with people and be there for people,
and like this person needs our help. That's why we're
that's where we're going and not just playing at home today.
So I think that's a that's a really important piece.
(11:25):
I think also like the vulnerability and talking about things,
I mean, you know, growing up in my household, like
my you know, very like sort of like traditional Chinese household.
You don't talk about feelings and things. You don't talk
about like loving each other. That's just weird. You give
somebody vowl a melon. I mean, I think both models work.
(11:48):
I think whether it's said or it's acted out, that
we are expressing how much we how much we love
each other. I think we're really trying to model that.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, I think yeah, the building one else said, I
think we want we want our kids to learn what
it means to show up for other people, right, and
that means not waiting to be invited in, to respond
when somebody needs help, not waiting to check on someone.
(12:19):
It means not like letting your shyness or worry about
etiquette supersede you're responding with what somebody needs. I'll just
give you a simple example from yesterday, from two days ago.
We ended up in the children's er a couple of
days ago because my daughter was having difficulty with her
(12:42):
left with her right hip, and we didn't you know,
we're both doctors, but we're both adult doctors, right, and
so which means that when when our child is a problem,
we'll try our best to assess it. But we're also
cognizant of the fact that there's a lot we may
not know. So we did all the usual like aminations
maneuvers we would and in adult patient we realized there's
(13:03):
something something unusual that was happening with her hip, and
so we took her to the emergency room. And the
part that makes me really proud about is that my
son there was never a question that he was coming right.
He just assumed, like when he knew that she had
to go to the hospital. The first thing he did
is he reached over and he hugged her and he
held her clothes right, and then he came got in
(13:25):
the car. He came. When we got to the hospital.
We're in the in the in the you know, the
bay in the emergency room, and she climbs onto the
to the gurney and to the bed, and he climbs
right in with her because he knew that his place
is right next to her, right and to make sure
she's okay. As well, when she went for her ultrasound
(13:46):
of the hip, he came right along as well. There
wasn't a question that he was staying back in the room.
And it's that kind of like closeness, that sort of
like don't wait for permission, you know, but step up
and show up for the people you love. We want
them to learn that because and to instinctively practice that,
(14:06):
because I actually do think that that is the catalyst
for community. It's when people when neighbors don't wait to
be invited in, when they realize someone is struggling, they
show up with food, with support. When friends do that
for each other. I think so often we wait and
assume that if somebody needs us to ask for us,
so we don't want to intrude on them, we don't
(14:28):
want to invade their privacy. But so many people are
just waiting and hoping that somebody will show up in
their lives. And when we do, it can be an
extraordinary source of not just like joy and support for them,
but every time you show up or remind somebody that
they matter. And in a world where so many people
feel invisible, sometimes that's everything.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
And there's a flip side to that as well, which
is teaching them to accept help and accept kindness. I
feel like when soon to be moms, they don't actually
ask advice, You just give them advice. This is on
solicit advice. What I'm saying. I've come to say like
(15:12):
if anybody offers you anything, just say yes, because that's
something that I learned as a new mom, was like
you just need people to show up with food and
show up to hold the baby for five minutes because
you really do need that shower, like you just need people.
And I feel like it took me so long to
learn that lesson that I want our kids and right
now that they obviously accept help because they're seven and eight,
(15:33):
but as they get older and as it becomes the
independent people to just just let people in because people
also need to be let in and feel like they
matter to you because you're accepting their help.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And just to talk about guys for a moment here too.
It's such a good point al series is about moms,
and it reminded me. We got a message once, an
email from a member of the public who said, I'm
a new dad and I'm a doctor and my wife
is a doctor too, and I noticed that when our
son was born, all of her female friends were congratulating her,
(16:07):
asking her what help she needed, offering support, and none
of my male friends in the hospital like barely even
said anything about the fact that I had a child,
much less offered support, like what's going on here? Right?
That was his question to us. And I do think
that at some level that that men in particular, I
think have a hard time asking for help and often
(16:31):
even accepting help. I think because we bring everybody, like
boys and girls up, but particularly men up in a
culture which tells him that being masculine, being a real
man is about not needing other people. It's about being independent.
And independent means that you're on your own. You can
figure it all out on your own. It means you
don't if you experience like worry, fear or anxiety, et cetera,
(16:52):
you don't display that. So it's about stoicism and it's
about about not needing anyone else. And the truth is
that's just not that's contrary to human evolution that we
all need each other. So I think we want both
of our kids, you know, as a boy and a girl,
to both understand that it's okay to ask for help,
to be to need other people, and it's important to
(17:13):
show up for other people because we're all going to
need people at different points in our life and that frankly,
my life is just better when we're getting through things
together versus when we're alone. And even like normal everyday
challenges can feel overwhelming.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Well said, I love that. Just one last question before
we wrap. This has been such a remarkable conversation and
just on our four of us, I just want to
say thank you. As parents were so inspired by your messages,
we're so inspired by your prescriptions. Both of you should
have your prescription paths there on a regular basis. You're
both brilliant. I want to say thank you as well,
just to acknowledge something that you so kindly contributed to
(17:48):
the latest book that we all wrote together, which is
called What Is My Legacy? And you wrote a very
powerful piece in that book, and the book has done
extremely well, and we want to say thank you for
the contribution and how important the book is in terms
of defining one's legacy. The reason I share this is
that we look at the root cause of so many
issues that are keeping us away from what doctor King
(18:09):
called the beloved community, and that concept, the bloved community
is such a powerful concept in terms of where we
could be going if we so choose or choose as
a as a collective to move in that direction. Of course,
we're moving in a different direction, and a very opposite direction.
And we argue that so much of the challenges of
disconnection are causing these challenges, and that disconnection from ourselves,
(18:31):
disconnection from others, and disconnection from the world. How does
disconnection eventually go from disease to disease? Can you put
your prescription paths out and help us understand.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Through a few mechanisms. I think one, when we are
chronically lonely and disconnection from each other, that actually raises
stress levels in our body, and acutely stress can be helpful,
right like if a car is coming at you and
you suddenly see it, that triggers as stress for response
in your body that helps you recruit muscles, your blood
gets flowing, your blood pressure goes up, heart rate increases,
(19:04):
and all that helps you get out of the wayfast.
That's good stress response. The problem with stress is when
it's either extreme or prolonged, and when people are experiencing
chronic loneliness, for example in isolation. That prolonged stress can
then start to damage tissues and blood vessels and lead
to increase inflammation in the body, which we know then
(19:25):
increases or risk for heart disease, diabetes, and a variety
of other chronic illnesses. So that's a biological level, but
there's also practical ways in which when we're disconnected from people,
we often don't have the help that we need to
support healthy behaviors and sometimes to respond to illnesses. So,
for example, it's hard to just stay in a workout
(19:48):
routine all on your own, or to follow a certain
diet without the support of other people. For anyone who's
tried and failed, it's starting in your diet or workout routine,
and I will raise my hand on that one. Have
tried and failed a number of times. The things that
have made the difference between failure and success have often
been when there've been people around me to do it
with or to support me. If you don't have people
(20:08):
to help you get medications when you're not able to
get them on your own, take you to the doctor
to follow up appointments. Remind you, as so many spouses
do with each other, to go to the doctor in
their first place to get screening for colon cancer, breast cancer,
or other conditions. It's harder to get those done, so
through a variety of mechanisms, we see that actually social
connection is at a practical and biological level is essential
(20:33):
for good health.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe,
share and follow us on at my Legacy movement on
social media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with
bonus content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors
doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the power
(20:55):
of connection. A legacy Plus studio production distributed by iHeart
Media creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward come executive producer
Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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