December 16, 2025 • 45 mins
Three-time Olympic gold medalist and WNBA champion, Brittney Griner joins My Legacy podcast for her first full-length interview alongside her wife, attorney and activist Cherelle Griner.
In this deeply personal episode, they sit down with hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger to share what it really took to survive nearly 300 days of wrongful detainment in Russia – and the love, strategy, and community that brought Brittney home.
Together, they share how:
- You can’t play by the rules if the system is broken
- Advocacy means knowing when—and where—to be loud
- Grief doesn’t wait for the crisis to end
- Love means telling the truth, even when it hurts
- Legacy is built in small, pressure-filled choices
Don’t miss an episode—subscribe now to catch new episodes every Tuesday and bonus content every Thursday.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
That first game, fans yelling I was in the bag,
like wooh, pull it together. You gotta go out here
and be a beast, like come on, and can't be crying.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Britney Grinder is a basketball icon and three time Olympic
gold medalists. We made history as the first openly gay
athlete to sign with Nike, and then in February twenty
twenty two, she became a.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Prisoner, terrified because I'm like, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Die, sentenced to nine years in a Russian labor camp,
stripped of everything.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I felt less than a human, felt less than animal, honestly,
and I thought about, you know, I thought about ended it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
In their first ever interview together, Britney and her wife,
Cherrelle revealed those heartbreaking two hundred and ninety three days
and what it took to survive.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Anybody that knows me know how much I love this
woman is sitting next to me right now, and for
me to sit there and ask her to wait nine
years when I know all her dreams. So I wrote
her and I basically just gave her out.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
But Cherrelle wasn't waiting. She was fighting because if silence
got them nowhere, then we would be as loud as
it take.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Join hosts Martine for King, the Third, Andrea Waters King,
Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger were a raw, unforgettable conversation
about resilience, courage, and the unbreakable bond between two people
who lived through the unthinkable.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And this is where I was in front of like
eight or nine men. They had me stripped down old way.
So I have one more attempt.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
To welcome to my legacy. Today we're joined by one
of the most accomplished athletes of her generation, w NBA
star Britney Griner. Thank you so much for being with
us here today and on my legacy. As all of
our listeners and audience know, we not only have extraordinary individuals,
but they let us into their lives by bringing someone
(01:48):
who knows them so well, someone who's been with them
on the journeys, the ups, the downs, the person who
they've chosen to spend their life with. Would you do
us the honor of introducing your plus one today?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh man, this is such a honor to introduce my amazing,
lovely wife, Cherrelle Griner.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Well, because I understand this is the first interview the
two of you have done.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We've done a full interview like this, and I'm just
honored to have her here because a lot of people
don't get to see the background and don't a lot
of people don't get to see, you know, my backbone
all the time. And I mean, I wouldn't be here
and doing what I'm doing without her in so many
different ways.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
By the way, I love to smile on that one.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You're like, just chloing, this is awesome.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
We're all thrilled to have both of you here today.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
We're going to start with your career, Brittany, and because
the world has witnessed your incredible success on the court
and you're inspiring resilience off the court as well. But
before we talk about that, I want to go back
to childhood and what ultimately made you powerful on the
court came from some pretty painful experiences. There's so many
(03:11):
kids that have experienced bullying, and in so many ways,
you were bullied by classmates growing up. But can you
share a bit about that struggle.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Especially when you look a little different. You know, I
was slightly taller than everybody growing up, maybe more than slightly,
but yeah, I mean I was taller, a little bit
deeper voice. I vividly remember there was a time where
these girls came up to me and literally put their
hands on me, like touched my chest and was like see, no,
(03:43):
she's not a girl, she's a boy. And I'm just
standing there like all right, like what do I do now?
And everybody's just staring at me, and I'm like, oh, okay,
so I'm the butt end of this joke. Now. I
didn't really tell my parents anything at all. I hid
at all what I was going through, what I was
dealing with, and I would write, so I would use
(04:06):
journaling and I would write little stories about someone and
I'm using air quotations, but it was about me. And
then of course I would destroy it and hide it
because I didn't want my parents to find out. So
it was just a tough time. But I found a
teacher and I was able to talk to him and
share with him, and another lady at my school as well,
(04:29):
and they helped me, you know, with it a lot,
and I was just able to kind of have somebody
to confine in. But it just taught me to kind of, like,
you know, just be strong. In an indirect way, I
wanted to crumble so much. But I was like, I
really didn't have any choice. I'm a kid. I was like,
I gotta keep going to school. I got to keep
doing you know, what I'm supposed to do. So just
(04:51):
I guess it taught me to kind of endure and
buckle down.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
And there were two teachers that you said were a
safe space for you. Yes, who are their two teachers?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Mister KINGU he was like a criminal, mister King. Oh yeah, yeah,
I think I want to say he's a principal now
at a school in Houston. But yeah, no, I was.
I was able to just go to his class. My
other teachers kind of knew what was going on, and
(05:22):
I was just able to kind of escape to his
class and just had a safe, safe place. I actually
had a coach, JB. Coach that was instrumental in my
high school years because I ended up leaving home for
just a little bit. I had left and I went
and stay with her. I think you're gonna like her
name to her name was missus Kan.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Coach, no relation, no relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So yeah, I just I was really lucky. Like I said,
I was just really lucky for them to be there,
not overstep you know, but just be somebody that could
give me a safe place to be beautiful, pretty.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
I just want to make sure that's right, because your
accolades are absolutely remarkable. You're one of the few athletes
we can say won an NCAA championship, a w NBA championship,
and three Olympic gold medals. Thank you, But you also
made history as the first openly gay athlete ever endorsed
by Nike. What did that moment mean to you, not
(06:21):
just as an athlete but somebody who also struggled to
feel fully accepted.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, coming out of college, I knew that, you know,
I was going to be completely open with my sexuality
and who I was. And then for Nike to come
in and sign me, knowing that with me being open,
one of the first to be openly out like that,
it meant a lot. I felt safe, secure. I felt like,
(06:48):
you know, I would be with an employer that would
celebrate me in a way and promote me in a
way that was authentic to myself. And yeah, it felt good.
And then I knew I was given a model to
you know, younger girls that I, you know, didn't really
have growing up. You know, I didn't have somebody just
saying that they were, you know, openly gay and and
(07:11):
out like that. So I just wanted somebody to be
able to look up and be like, Okay, I can
do this, because I had people telling me like, oh,
you're not gonna be able to you know, get deals,
You're not gonna be able to go pro and like
telling me all these things because it was a different
it was a little bit different time. Not to sound
a little bit over, but it was it was different,
you know, And the look on it was, oh, just
(07:34):
be quiet, And I was like, I want to break that.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Did you ever consider being quiet? Did you even?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
No, not for someone, but I was quiet for me
in certain stages like high school. I was quiet until
I came out to my friends. College, I was somewhat quiet,
but a little bit more open because I felt a
little bit more independent being in college. And then once
I got to the pros, I was like, yeah, no,
like it's time. I want to look in a mirror
(08:02):
and be happy every time.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
So and I love that through it all, as tested
as you've been, you're sitting here together and I know
we know the end of the story, but we also
know in between a lot has happened Brittain. If I
can jump ahead and no to February twenty twenty two.
You both have been married for about four years. You
just finished your regular season with the WNBA, and you
(08:24):
were returning to Russia. I'd been eight years, eight years
in a row you'd play in Russian. I don't think
most people appreciated this, because you know, this was something
almost ordinary for you at this stage. You go through
customs by an accident, you have a small amount of
medically prescribed cannabis with you. You probably thought, oh, this
is inconvenient, but nothing more than an envenience. Was there
(08:44):
that moment we realized this is this is just out
of control. Like no, what was the moment that that
flipped in your head?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I mean, when they took my passport right there, I
already felt like, okay, you're detained because they took you know,
any they took my form ID that I could leave with,
so right then I was like, okay, this is getting
a little bit more serious. But when they moved me
from the airport to the custom building and then the
arm guard and the full blue camo came and sat
(09:17):
down to guard me and my every movement I was like, okay, yeah, no,
this is this is this is intense because this isn't
just a regular, you know, police officer, Like this is
military because it's a camo you know, and assault rifle
on the them. I'm like, oh okay, Like like I am,
this is going to be a long haul. And what
(09:37):
really made it click was once they took me those
next probably forty eight hours. I mean they drove me
all around Moscow and a regular car too, like not
a police car. It was. It was. It was pretty crazy.
Crabbing in the back of anybody knows what a Honda
(09:59):
like CRV is that hatch back like kind of weird. Yeah,
I was crammed in the back of one of those.
They took me one hospital for a COVID test, took
me to another hospital for a drug test, took me
back to another hospital for a TV test that I
didn't even know what a TV test was. I just
knew that they were injecting, you know, something into my body,
(10:21):
and I'm like terrified because I'm like I'm gonna die. Yeah,
all that kind of just let me know that this
was going to be an experience that I never.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Thought well, and I can only imagine that moment because frankly,
the part that I imagine just even here you say this,
it's the feeling of powerless.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, oh yeah, super powerlessness. I mean just sitting in
the cell and seeing how they unlocked the doors. It's
not like, you know, there's a garden, you know, control
center hitting a button and you hear click it unlocks. No,
these are it's double doors. Old skeleton keys think like
green Moule or something like that, like old school, you know,
(11:00):
and the keys don't always work. They got to go
get another guard because their keys not working. I'm like, well,
if there's a fire, oh, there's probably about six hundred
people in this building, two doors for each cell. Oh
we're going to burn up. I'm gonna die. Like so,
like it was just constant fear the whole time. Wow.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Yeah, and you were sentenced to nine years nine years.
Well one of the things that you did is that
you did you sent the letter to Charll, basically giving
her an out.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I did. Like, when you're sitting in the cell and
you just have a lot of time, you're just thinking,
and honestly, that's kind of like your worst your worst enemy.
Anybody knows me know how much I love this woman
sitting next to me right now, and for me to
sit here, sit there and ask her to wait nine
years when I know all her dreams, aspirations and everything
(11:54):
that she wanted to do family lawyer, on her own
law firm. I was just like, that's this is gonna
be a lot, It's gonna be hard. She didn't ask
for this. So I wrote her and I basically just
gave her out, gave her out and I told her.
I was like, I just asked, like, just be my friend,
(12:16):
you know, just talk to me, write me. But yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Then Cheryl, the world witnessed you fighting so publicly, all
while grieving privately, and as Brittany was just saying, I
don't think a lot of us knew that you were
finishing up law school during your final year. I think
of law school during that time, so one of the
(12:42):
things already we can feel your strength and your resilience,
not only knowing the story but just what you emanate.
But was there anything that surprised you during that time
about your strength?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I never in a million years thought that I would
have the capacity to handle multiple things at the same
time that carried that much weight. And so I have
a mentor. She was my juvenile law professor, and she
had just ran for judge ship and she wanted and
so I just remember texting her and I was like,
(13:18):
Judge Mitchell, I'm about to come to your like you know, chambers.
And she's like, okay, you know, she's not thinking anything
of it because I've been toil this point. No one knows,
so I'm still going to school. So I went in
her office and I told her, I said, this isn't
public knowledge yet, and I knew I could trust her
with it. And I told her what had happened with BG.
And at that point it had only been like a
(13:39):
couple of days. And I was like, I don't know
the gravity of what's about to happen, but I think
they're keeping her. And I was crying in her office
won her chambers, and she looked at me and she
was just like, well, I want you to stop saying
you don't have the capacity. And she told me, she said,
do you have the capacity? She was like, but she
was like, it's your decision on the choice of what
(13:59):
you're going to do, what the capacity you have. She
was like, so if you choose to do both finish
law school and fight for BG. She was like, you can.
She was like, if you choose to just do one
of them, you can. She was like, but don't limit
yourself and just say you don't have the capacity. And
at that point I was like, girl, you don't work
your butt off, like you gotta finish law school. And
then I thought about it more and I'm like, you
(14:19):
love beg down, like we gotta get her back, and
so it became a no brainer. I was like, we're
about to do this, like you know, And at that point,
you know, I kind of, you know, I crumbled a
little bit, but eventually, you know, I had another mentor.
She was an attorney at a I was working at
a criminal homicide firm and my attorney at the time, Adrian.
(14:41):
She told me, she said, it's okay to go down Grainer.
She was like, but I'll call you in a couple
of days because you can't stay there. I was like, okay,
and so we hung up and I literally was in
that bed and she called me forty eight hours later
and she was just like, it's time to get up.
And you know, I'm just grateful for people like that
in my life. At the time. They helped me realize
(15:02):
that I could do it. And once I tell myself
I'm doing something, I'm doing it.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Because it became such a public case and it was
based on your advocacy, did you intentionally decide to make
it as public? Was that a strategy or did it
kind of snowball in and of itself?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh, absolutely was a strategy. The first thing we did
was really really really strategic by doing nothing, because when
something is that big, and you know something is at
risks that big as well, because the situation was big,
but also the risk management was Begi's life. You know,
that's huge to me, and so we're not just going
(15:41):
to go in there swinging. We had no idea what
we were dealing with, and so we sat back silent
for a couple of weeks because we really wanted to
see the trajectory of what we were dealing with. Because
sometimes big things, if you know the right people, can
become really small things.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So we are just silent, making really powerful phone calls
to try and see, you know, is this really what
we think it is? Or can we take this medical
marijuana cartage and really treated what it is a really
small thing you know, because she's declarated, she's very distinguished
(16:20):
in Russia, like her footprint is good, you know. So
we were really trying to do that route first while
we sat back and at the same time, you know,
I like to say Parallelaine's. We were trying this route,
but we were also strategically trying to figure out, if
this gets us nowhere, what do we do next? And
so I'm grateful to the other families that were already
(16:42):
experiencing one of their loved ones being wrongfully detained. And
I got to meet a few of them at the
James Foley Foundation dinner like two weeks after PG was detained,
and that changed everything for me because I met daughter's wives, sisters, mothers, brothers,
all of the above, and they all told me something
(17:03):
that hit my soul so hard. They said, I can't
believe you're here. They were like, when it happened to us,
we were just in bed for months. They were like,
and everyone told us to be quiet, and they were like,
and we did that and three years past and at
that point, wait what he said, how many ys? And
I'm in my brain, I'm like, I'm not prepared for
(17:24):
three years. I'm not prepared for at that point, I
wasn't prepared for a month, you know. And so I
went back and I talked to BG's agent and I'm like, hey,
everyone's telling me that they were quiet first, and we're
right now quiet first. We need to change that. We
cannot do whatever they did because it didn't work. We
have to do something different. And so that's when we
(17:47):
were just like, okay, like you know, let's start getting
all the collective hands together. Let's start, you know, making
this a movement. I want to say. At first they
were like love BG. I was like, hate it. No,
can't do it. We don't relate because they don't all
just love BG. Okay. I was like, no, we need
something better. And finally they brought me we are BG,
and I was like that's it. I was like that's
the one. And I'm like, let's get it going, you know, like,
(18:09):
let's get this ball rolling. And I'm like, we're just
you know, we're just gonna keep it going because two
seconds I knew that we weren't going to stay quiet,
because if silence got them nowhere, then we would be
as loud as it take. It's kind of how my
mind sat was at the time.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Let me ask something different. Was there a fan presence
in Russia that were saying something even though I'm I
imagine people are just used to being restricted because how
the government is run. But were there fans who were
saying wait a minute, wait a minute in Russia?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Oh? Yeah no. And I was actually shocked that I
got letters from fans all over Russia asking if they
could like send me stuff that word Russian living in Russia,
saying that they were sorry for what was happening to me.
I had them telling me, I mean, I had guards
telling me at times, you know, different things like there
(19:07):
was some angels. There was definitely some hidden angels along
the way. Don't worry, You're you're your country is going
to get you like you You're going to go home
like and I'm just like, I hope so, uh my
salemates would tell me all the time too. I kind
of got a little bit of a crash. Course. I
guess they're way of life, not by you know, school
(19:27):
or anything, but by just living it. And I could
see that they had no hope for them for themselves,
but they they had a lot of hope you know,
through me for me to go home. And I think
that kind of became like a little thing, especially in
my room at least, you know, you.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
Know my my dad And one of his speeches said,
only in the darkness can you see the stars. So
what was your lowest moment and how did you find
the strength to keep going when everything in you wanted
to give up?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Lowest moment for me, I was in isolation for a
little bit over a week.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Uh, this is when I first got to like their
like their county. I guess you would call it jail.
I hadn't seen my lawyer yet. He was still trying
to find me because last he told me he would
have to find me because they're not going to just
tell them where I went. So I had nothing. I
had three shirts, I had my shoes, my Nike Duck
boot shoes on. I had a Parker jacket, no toothbrush,
(20:38):
no soap, no food, no nothing. So I had to
take a shirt, found a rough piece of metal, ripped
it and that was what I used to clean myself with.
And uh, it was just a really low I felt dirty,
I felt not like a human, I felt less than
a human, felt less than animal, honestly, And I thought
(21:01):
about you know, I thought about ending it. I saw
some metal where I could break it off, thought about it,
But then I also thought about my family. I thought
about my wife, thought about my mom, my dad, my siblings. Like,
I mean, they're holding me now, Like who's to say
they were going to release my body? And now you know,
(21:21):
my family's trying to fight to get me my body
home and all that kind of went through my mind
and I was like, I can't do that to them.
I have to be strong. And I thought about my
dad being in Vietnam and you know, stories that he
shared with me, and you know, he shared a lot
with me and his resilience to get through that, to
make it through that and get back home. I was like,
I can do the same thing. So that was my
(21:44):
my fight, my you know, I just got to make
it back home so that everybody can lay eyes on
me and find that strengthen my pops had over there.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
Wow. Pretty What were some of the insights from your
dad and his experience being a veteran that shared and
shaped you in your insights in terms of when you
needed that strength the most.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, not giving away too much, because you know, I
really I really value those those stories that he that
he shared with me and only me. But you know,
he he did talk about, you know, just front lines,
being walking through the jungle, watching his his his friends
that he had made over there, falling, you know, traps
and seeing their bodies the way they are, and you know,
some very grewsome stories from war and he had to
(22:28):
go through that. And I see how he went through that.
He came back and still had a family, still you know,
went to work, still endured and did what he needed
to do and just kept going forward in the face
of a lot of things. Also where he grew up to.
My dad grew up in Jasper, Texas. Anybody that knows
(22:49):
anything about Jasper, Texas, it was not the best in
the South. The Jamesburg Junior Dragon and.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
We investigated that. I don't know if you all heard
about that. This was a black man that was put
on the back of a truck and was dragged by
dragged until he was decapitated. When I used to monitor
hate groups and hate crimes, that was one of the
cases that I worked on.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yep, it was down Hull Creek Road. Yes, my whole
family is buried down that road cemetery. So we have
a lot of ties to that, but I know he
went through all this and I still can see this man.
And he had his flaws everybody does, but I still
see a strong man providing for his family and his kids.
And I'm like, oh, that that's gonna be me. I'm
(23:32):
going to do the same thing, and I can I
can't be that.
Speaker 7 (23:35):
So, Sharil, what image or memory kept coming back to
you as you were not going to lose hope? But
yet some days we all sort of feel like hopeless?
What is it that kept you going?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I would say, just who BG is, and like we
have a really good think on here. You know, my
life immediately got harder without her, and so you know,
you chose right at that point, you know, because the
things that BG does, like on a day to day
were instantly missed, you know. And so for me, it's like, Okay,
(24:14):
I definitely need her back because this ship doesn't really
ship the way it needs to, Like we are a
cold like we we co do this, you know, And
so adding on all the things BG do on top
of the things I do was insane to me. You know,
I was like absolutely not insign up for this, Like
I want to co ship again. Like I want to
co captain this thing. I do not want to be
(24:35):
the only captain of this ship. Because this is the
type of person where I'm like, hey, I have an
exam Friday, and I kid, you're not maybe Thursday, Wednesday,
I have roses and and food sent. She's like, I
know you're studying, like you know.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So she's like.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, well wait wait I'm sorry, let's go back.
Yeah you sent you had flowers sent from.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yourself, a whole like a tinerary thing.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, for our anniversary. So yeah, like she wrote, yeah,
she wrote somebody on the team or whoever, I know
who she talked to on the saw. But it was
a shock for me because I was not expecting that.
But I was accustomed to things like that. But I
was like, okay, sure these things are going to stop,
and she's told him. I was okay with that, but yeah,
she totally surprised me. It was like a thick, really
(25:31):
nice just like nine by ten like paper, and it
just had picture of us on it and just the
whole day's worth for me to do on our anniversary.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
I'm sorry, like okay, like there is no excuses.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I thought was prison.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yes, I set the bar kind of high. Sorry guys, sorry.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Coming up.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
What do you say to the love of your life
after almost three hundred days he's in a Russian prison?
Brittany takes us there.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Now back to my legacy, So can I post a
question each of you the moments in two different countries.
I assume you weren't talking at this moment live when
each of you heard that you were going to be freed.
Can you take us to that moment when each of
you heard that news? What was running through mind? After
ten months of fearless fighting and advocacy. And to all
(26:28):
of our listeners and audience members, we see you know
you're laughing, you're joking. But I remember watching the story
as we all did, and the narrative could have played
out just as easily. You know, the war has it
ended in This could have gone on for years to
the present day. This was far from a foregone conclusion. Yes,
(26:48):
and so just for each of you, what was that moment.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I was working. I was at IK two, I was
at the actual penal colony at this point, I was
working in fabric with the second offenders and the lady
that was basically like kind of over me helping me.
She was also locked up as well. She worked in
the kitchen, but she came to me and was like,
get your stuff, Harry up. I was like, what do
you mean? She was like, no, you have to go,
(27:14):
like check you out, like you're you're there's some people
here you have to talk to, and I think you're
you're going home. I got extremely happy, but then I
immediately went back to the cold, just stone face, and
I was like, I'm not going to believe it until
my feet are on us oil. I was like, anything
(27:35):
can fall through, not make it there signature, a period
wasn't somewhere, and you know it's all messed up. So uh,
I did check out. Got gave away all my stuff
to the to the girls because when I say, they
had nothing, nothing, so I gave them everything I had
(27:56):
and I got transported maybe the next day or day
after that to the men's prison down in Moscow. Stayed
there a couple of days. Thought I was getting checked
back in. This is where I was in front of
like eight or nine men. They had me stripped down
all the way, camera had me spinning, and I was
(28:18):
just like, I'm not gonna give you a reaction because
I know that that's what you're looking for. So one
more attempt to humiliate me, I guess. But the next day,
about five mask guards they come get me, put me
in a van. They take me around Moscow one last loop.
(28:38):
They asked me, you know who lives there. I'm like, no,
they're talking about Putin. They were like our great leader.
I was just like, oh, okay, I said okay, and
then they took me to the airport. I got on
that plane and immediately I could just feel it in
my stomach, just the butterflies of like the anxiousness, but
(28:59):
still until I get on that US soil. And it
wasn't until I saw her in that US flag that
I felt like, okay, it's happening, Like I can I
can be relieved now. And yeah, I couldn't wait for
that warm embrace.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
And for me, I didn't know because they do really
phone calls from a sitting US president or extremely extremely discreet,
and so this was not my first time President bideny
had called me, and so I mean, in my mind,
I'm like, I don't think that it's because BG's coming home.
(29:40):
So I knew it was going to be some news
and normally, if he's calling me and wants to see me,
it's something he can't say over the phone he wants
to say in the over office. And I was excited
because I'm like, you're not gonna waste my time, Like
we have a good relationship, you know, like he knows
I'm grieving. He's not just asking me to come there
(30:00):
for no reason. So I'm like, Okay, it must be
something good. So I was expecting to go there to
hear good news, but I'm thinking it's good news as
of like, hey like the channel to give BG back.
I think it's working. I think we're getting close, you know,
because we had had one of those conversations before and
it had to be in person. So in my brain,
(30:21):
that's what I'm going there for. So I pack a
bag for me to go to DC so that I
can you know, meet President Biden the next morning and
just you know, hear whatever it is he has to
tell me. And I get a phone call from BG's
agent and she's like schreyl. She was like, did you
pack a bag for BG as well? And I was like,
(30:42):
why would I do that? No, because that's torture for me.
You want me to go in there and touch her
clothes and pack a bag that you know she may
not need. Like that's insane. No, I'm not doing that.
Did he tell you I should? And she's like no,
but I mean, like I'm feeling really good, and I'm like, okay, well,
I'm not that optimistic to go in there and pack
this bag because it's gonna crush me, like literally crush
(31:04):
me if I can't give it to her, you know.
And so she's like, I would still like you to
just pack one just in case. Okay, Lindsey, I'll pack
the bag. And the next day I gets to the
White House and I go in the over office, and
you know, I think I knew the minute I saw
(31:25):
his face what he was about to say, because he's
such a nice person. But he doesn't get up that early.
Like our meeting was extremely early, and so everybody kept
saying like, hey, he must love you, and I'm like,
what are y'all talking about? Like everyone in the Oval
office networks there. It's just like president body is not
up at seven am for anybody. And I'm like, okay,
well I feel great about this. And yeah, so he
(31:47):
came in, he looked at me and he grabbed my
hands like this, and he busted a smile that big,
and I knew what he was about to say, and
he said, we got her. And I just started crying
and he was like, we got her, and he he
went and grabbed the phone and he was just like,
my people will be calling this phone soon, and he
was just like, we got her. And I mean, my
(32:11):
entire just everything changed at that point.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
And what was going through your heart at that point.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I couldn't believe it. I was utterly in shock, like
utterly in shock. I could not believe that he was
able to do it, especially at that speed. I don't
think a lot of people understand the trajectory of what
he did in the time that he did that in
it was unheard of, like no one has ever come
(32:36):
home in ten months.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
And then take us to the moment when you guys
saw each other for that first time getting off the plane.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I'm allowed to ask, what did you guys say to
each other?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I mean, I broke down Crown on the plane. I
switched seat so I could see her pulling in. I'm bawling,
but in my mind, and I use I use humor
a lot as a mechanism like for everything, like bad situations,
good situations, all that. In my mind, I was like,
do not fall down these stairs. You went through all this,
(33:07):
don't ruin it by falling down the stairs in front
of everybody. So I was nervous for that, but I
got down them stairs. I ran over to her big hug,
whispered in her ear, I'm so sorry. I know you're
going to kill me, but I have to. You know,
hand just let's just say hand, little squeeze, just touch.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Mind you is so many people in that room, I'm like,
if you don't get your little hands off me so embarrassed,
I'm like, no.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
This also though, this, yes, this has never happened this fast,
and the trajectory was unusual. But let's also give credit
where credit is due. And one of the things that
I was just thinking about, there's this famous story that
when your father went to see President Johnson, when he
was saying, look, you know, doctor King, I really want
(34:02):
to support this bill, but you know, I really just
don't have the power. You know that we don't have
the power to get this done. And so when they
were walking out of the Oval office, your father said
to his lieutenants well, let's go get the president some power.
So what you did, and and you know, we certainly
should give the president, you know, all of his credits
(34:25):
for doing what he did, but also let's be clear
that it took a determined, strong woman to give the
president the power to get this done.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I like that.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
You so pretty. So you get back and just tell
us about what that transition was like. And you've spoken
openly about anxiety and trauma following your return, and how
did you get back to a point where you were
mentally be able to refocus on all that you needed
(34:59):
to focus on In the United States.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
A lot of great people, I'll say that, too many
people to name, but so many great people. I got
to give my wife a lot of the credit because
she knew when I was good, she knew when I wasn't.
She knew when I was lying to myself saying I
was good and I really wasn't. She gave me the
space to not be okay because there was there was
(35:23):
that initial your home. Oh my god, I'm so happy.
Everything's great, Like we're just going to fall right back
into everything being normal, and it's like, no, like I've changed,
she's changed, Like things have changed, and not for the bad,
but just things have changed and there's healing now. And
then there's different times where I'll hear something, see something,
(35:46):
or something will remind me and it'll kind of like
throw me back. And then sometimes it won't throw me back,
but I just want to talk about it. So there
was a it was just an up and down flux,
but I just knew I needed her right beside me.
One little quick story. We were in the hospital when
I came back. There was a program that I went
(36:06):
into to get reimmersed back in went to the army base.
An amazing program and amazing people at that military base
down in San Antonio that I met, But they kind
of wanted us separate just because of you know, you
never know how somebody's going to reaccliment being back, night terrors,
anything can go, anything happened. But I was like, no,
(36:29):
I need her with me in this room. I want
to just start talking and telling her everything. And I
was away from her this whole time, isolated. I don't
want to be isolated anymore, like absolutely not. So after
a couple of phone calls and a couple more phone calls,
they were like, okay, you know and she came and
because I was watching the news, they were like, wait,
(36:50):
you're doing what I was like, I'm watching the news.
I want to know everything that was said, what was done.
They were like, hey, like, don't do that. I was like, well,
I need her then I'm watching it.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah. I was really shocked when they called because they
told us like we got to see each other maybe
for like an hour at the bunker. They had like
a little room with snacks and things, and we talked
and then they were like, Okay, shyl you're gonna go
back to the house on the base. Beg'll meet you
at the house like in like two days or something.
They said like we were supposed to go like almost
forty eight hours not seeing each other as she went
(37:22):
through testing and conversations and different things like that, and
I get a phone call. We separated maybe for I
don't know, like when they told you were going to
the hospital and I went back to the house. We
weren't a part that long before I got a phone
call and they're like, we're coming to get you and
bring you to the hospital. I'm like, but I thought you, guys, said,
and they're like no, BEG said, and I.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Was like, Okay, I was gonna check myself out, but yeah,
I just needed her. And it was like and I
do understand, but I did understand what they were saying
because as much as I wanted to see the rest
of my immediate family, it was just kind of hard
because like I could see the ten months of grief,
I can see the aging, I can see the you know.
(38:08):
It was just it was good to see them, but
I needed to see them in doses, you know, because
it was just like it was a lot for me
because every time they cry cry, I felt like I
felt like I let my dad down, felt like, you know,
it was just all these little things, these little things
that you just hold on to, and I was like, yeah, no,
I just need my wife right now.
Speaker 6 (38:29):
So if you're looking for stories that move you, insights
that shift you, in conversations that stay deeply within you,
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hit the subscribe button right now. It's the best way
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Speaker 1 (38:50):
Now.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Back to my Legacy, prit me it.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
Five months since you got back and that you first
walked on the court again. With your Phoenix Mercury team.
What was that moment?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Like that was challenging. That was tough. I've never been
challenged like that in my professional career ever. It's never
been that hard either. My body went through a toll,
so you know, I'm trying to get back muscle mass.
I'm trying to put weight, good weight back on, take
off the bad weight. I mean that first. I think
(39:26):
the first time I worked out, I definitely cried, like
I broke down. I think I was asking you, I
was like you, I was like do I should I
just stop?
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Like?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Should I just not do this? So it was tough,
but I will give credit to my team at the time,
the Phoenix Mercury. You know, they were very understanding with
just giving me the time, giving me the space, making
sure I had an outlet, and I didn't feel like
I was rushed back into it at all. It was
(39:56):
definitely definitely my my doing just you know, throw back
in the fire and let's let's get it going. But
it was tough getting back into it, but I loved
every moment of it. That first game fans yelling had
a little video. It was definitely emotional. I was in
the back like who pull it together? You gotta go
out here and be a beast, like come on, can't
(40:17):
be crying. But it was just it felt good, like
having that warm welcome back from everybody, because I mean, honestly,
I didn't know, like not everybody was happy I came back,
you know, I'll say that. So I didn't know going
into some of these arenas like am I gonna get booed?
You know, like you know so, But it was it
(40:39):
was all positive from you know, the fans and every
arena and every organization that you know, we visited. The play.
Speaker 6 (40:48):
And the w NBA has taken off. You know, we're
seeing incredible engagements, leadership, talent, dunks, everything. But you know,
one of the things to note again is why you
were in Russia in the first place was because the
pay disparity between what was going on for the male
NBA players and then the w n B A. Can
you speak to that pay disparity issue in your mind
(41:11):
and what needs to be done to help address it?
Speaker 7 (41:14):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well, one, I'm just I'm so glad to be a
part of the league that with the players that step
up and we use our voices and we use our
platforms to advocate for ourselves and for others. And then yeah, no,
I mean I was going. I went to China first.
My first year was actually in China. My first year
was in China, and then after that, I was first
(41:36):
two years in China, and then I was in Russia
the rest of the time. And like I said, it's
for the pay, the pay gap in between the male
and the female. You know, athletes a lot of times
they like to throw numbers at you. They like to
throw you know, ratings and viewership, and we're not bringing
in enough ticket sale. And we have put in the work,
(41:57):
the product has put in the work, and we have
changed that. You see it across the board in college
and in our sport All Star the tournament. We have
the viewership, we have the numbers now and the demand
is there, and we're just you know telling them, hey,
you know, like we are the product. There is no
(42:20):
there is no league without us, and you have to
respect us and pay us the right way for us
to continue doing what we're doing, so we don't have
to go into these other countries, be away from our
families for six months at a time, putting off starting families.
I mean, it's a lot that goes into it. So
(42:41):
I think we're in a good spot though right now,
and I just hope we just keep making this progress.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
It's not the argument that I always see, which is
there say we want to make the exact same dollar
that our NBA counterparts are making. That is not it.
I think the biggest takeaway that they're asking for is
that they want what BG said, they want to be
paid the right way, meaning they want the right percentage.
So the reason why the NBA are making X amount
(43:11):
of dollars just because they're getting X amount of percentage
from all the money that is being made. So the
w b A players are saying, Hey, we just want
X percentage of everything that's made, and if everything that
we bring in, if you give us this percentage and
the MAC salary is one hundred thousand dollars, will shut up.
(43:34):
And that's what they're saying. So God are saying it
like what y'all saying is her we just want the
percentage and we don't we won't say anything about the
dollar value at that point, and that what they're arguing
is right. And it's just and it needs to be
very clear because I see so much people they don't
deserve that that type of money. That's not what they're saying.
Speaker 6 (43:55):
They need a high power lawyer working with them to
create another movie.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
Exactly. Now we see where this is going. That's exactly
because you just made it playing. You just made it playing.
So I think everyone understands, and I.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Think we've all loved watching the two of you. The
fact that this entire interview for the audience who doesn't
see this, you have not let go of each other's hands. No,
but we alt to shut that out. You have literally
not let go of each other's hands this entire time,
And just the vulnerability, the openness, the journey from childhood
to love. I love the quote It's okay to go down,
(44:34):
but you cannot stay there. And Brittany, I love the
quote everyone deserves to look in the mirror and be happy,
and that the greatest wins are how hard you fight
for someone you just love. So thank you both for
giving us this great privilege and honor for your first
interview together in this way.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Thank you both, And I think that is that's your theme,
never letting each other's hand and go so literally how
you all physically held hands, You all have held hands
throughout the decades and like that is your your thing,
holding each other's hand.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
You heard it right here.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
on at my Legacy movement on social media and YouTube.
New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
At its core, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Honors doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the
power of connection. A Legacy Plus studio production distributed by
iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward Come executive producer
Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
That first game, fans yelling I was in the bag,
like wooh, pull it together. You gotta go out here
and be a beast, like come on, and can't be crying.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Britney Grinder is a basketball icon and three time Olympic
gold medalists. We made history as the first openly gay
athlete to sign with Nike, and then in February twenty
twenty two, she became a.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Prisoner, terrified because I'm like, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Die, sentenced to nine years in a Russian labor camp,
stripped of everything.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I felt less than a human, felt less than animal, honestly,
and I thought about, you know, I thought about ended it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
In their first ever interview together, Britney and her wife,
Cherrelle revealed those heartbreaking two hundred and ninety three days
and what it took to survive.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Anybody that knows me know how much I love this
woman is sitting next to me right now, and for
me to sit there and ask her to wait nine
years when I know all her dreams. So I wrote
her and I basically just gave her out.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
But Cherrelle wasn't waiting. She was fighting because if silence
got them nowhere, then we would be as loud as
it take.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Join hosts Martine for King, the Third, Andrea Waters King,
Mark Kilberger and Craig Kilberger were a raw, unforgettable conversation
about resilience, courage, and the unbreakable bond between two people
who lived through the unthinkable.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And this is where I was in front of like
eight or nine men. They had me stripped down old way.
So I have one more attempt.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
To welcome to my legacy. Today we're joined by one
of the most accomplished athletes of her generation, w NBA
star Britney Griner. Thank you so much for being with
us here today and on my legacy. As all of
our listeners and audience know, we not only have extraordinary individuals,
but they let us into their lives by bringing someone
(01:48):
who knows them so well, someone who's been with them
on the journeys, the ups, the downs, the person who
they've chosen to spend their life with. Would you do
us the honor of introducing your plus one today?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh man, this is such a honor to introduce my amazing,
lovely wife, Cherrelle Griner.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Well, because I understand this is the first interview the
two of you have done.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
We've done a full interview like this, and I'm just
honored to have her here because a lot of people
don't get to see the background and don't a lot
of people don't get to see, you know, my backbone
all the time. And I mean, I wouldn't be here
and doing what I'm doing without her in so many
different ways.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
By the way, I love to smile on that one.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You're like, just chloing, this is awesome.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
We're all thrilled to have both of you here today.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 5 (02:48):
We're going to start with your career, Brittany, and because
the world has witnessed your incredible success on the court
and you're inspiring resilience off the court as well. But
before we talk about that, I want to go back
to childhood and what ultimately made you powerful on the
court came from some pretty painful experiences. There's so many
(03:11):
kids that have experienced bullying, and in so many ways,
you were bullied by classmates growing up. But can you
share a bit about that struggle.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Especially when you look a little different. You know, I
was slightly taller than everybody growing up, maybe more than slightly,
but yeah, I mean I was taller, a little bit
deeper voice. I vividly remember there was a time where
these girls came up to me and literally put their
hands on me, like touched my chest and was like see, no,
(03:43):
she's not a girl, she's a boy. And I'm just
standing there like all right, like what do I do now?
And everybody's just staring at me, and I'm like, oh, okay,
so I'm the butt end of this joke. Now. I
didn't really tell my parents anything at all. I hid
at all what I was going through, what I was
dealing with, and I would write, so I would use
(04:06):
journaling and I would write little stories about someone and
I'm using air quotations, but it was about me. And
then of course I would destroy it and hide it
because I didn't want my parents to find out. So
it was just a tough time. But I found a
teacher and I was able to talk to him and
share with him, and another lady at my school as well,
(04:29):
and they helped me, you know, with it a lot,
and I was just able to kind of have somebody
to confine in. But it just taught me to kind of, like,
you know, just be strong. In an indirect way, I
wanted to crumble so much. But I was like, I
really didn't have any choice. I'm a kid. I was like,
I gotta keep going to school. I got to keep
doing you know, what I'm supposed to do. So just
(04:51):
I guess it taught me to kind of endure and
buckle down.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
And there were two teachers that you said were a
safe space for you. Yes, who are their two teachers?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Mister KINGU he was like a criminal, mister King. Oh yeah, yeah,
I think I want to say he's a principal now
at a school in Houston. But yeah, no, I was.
I was able to just go to his class. My
other teachers kind of knew what was going on, and
(05:22):
I was just able to kind of escape to his
class and just had a safe, safe place. I actually
had a coach, JB. Coach that was instrumental in my
high school years because I ended up leaving home for
just a little bit. I had left and I went
and stay with her. I think you're gonna like her
name to her name was missus Kan.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Coach, no relation, no relationship.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So yeah, I just I was really lucky. Like I said,
I was just really lucky for them to be there,
not overstep you know, but just be somebody that could
give me a safe place to be beautiful, pretty.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
I just want to make sure that's right, because your
accolades are absolutely remarkable. You're one of the few athletes
we can say won an NCAA championship, a w NBA championship,
and three Olympic gold medals. Thank you, But you also
made history as the first openly gay athlete ever endorsed
by Nike. What did that moment mean to you, not
(06:21):
just as an athlete but somebody who also struggled to
feel fully accepted.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, coming out of college, I knew that, you know,
I was going to be completely open with my sexuality
and who I was. And then for Nike to come
in and sign me, knowing that with me being open,
one of the first to be openly out like that,
it meant a lot. I felt safe, secure. I felt like,
(06:48):
you know, I would be with an employer that would
celebrate me in a way and promote me in a
way that was authentic to myself. And yeah, it felt good.
And then I knew I was given a model to
you know, younger girls that I, you know, didn't really
have growing up. You know, I didn't have somebody just
saying that they were, you know, openly gay and and
(07:11):
out like that. So I just wanted somebody to be
able to look up and be like, Okay, I can
do this, because I had people telling me like, oh,
you're not gonna be able to you know, get deals,
You're not gonna be able to go pro and like
telling me all these things because it was a different
it was a little bit different time. Not to sound
a little bit over, but it was it was different,
you know, And the look on it was, oh, just
(07:34):
be quiet, And I was like, I want to break that.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Did you ever consider being quiet? Did you even?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
No, not for someone, but I was quiet for me
in certain stages like high school. I was quiet until
I came out to my friends. College, I was somewhat quiet,
but a little bit more open because I felt a
little bit more independent being in college. And then once
I got to the pros, I was like, yeah, no,
like it's time. I want to look in a mirror
(08:02):
and be happy every time.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
So and I love that through it all, as tested
as you've been, you're sitting here together and I know
we know the end of the story, but we also
know in between a lot has happened Brittain. If I
can jump ahead and no to February twenty twenty two.
You both have been married for about four years. You
just finished your regular season with the WNBA, and you
(08:24):
were returning to Russia. I'd been eight years, eight years
in a row you'd play in Russian. I don't think
most people appreciated this, because you know, this was something
almost ordinary for you at this stage. You go through
customs by an accident, you have a small amount of
medically prescribed cannabis with you. You probably thought, oh, this
is inconvenient, but nothing more than an envenience. Was there
(08:44):
that moment we realized this is this is just out
of control. Like no, what was the moment that that
flipped in your head?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I mean, when they took my passport right there, I
already felt like, okay, you're detained because they took you know,
any they took my form ID that I could leave with,
so right then I was like, okay, this is getting
a little bit more serious. But when they moved me
from the airport to the custom building and then the
arm guard and the full blue camo came and sat
(09:17):
down to guard me and my every movement I was like, okay, yeah, no,
this is this is this is intense because this isn't
just a regular, you know, police officer, Like this is
military because it's a camo you know, and assault rifle
on the them. I'm like, oh okay, Like like I am,
this is going to be a long haul. And what
(09:37):
really made it click was once they took me those
next probably forty eight hours. I mean they drove me
all around Moscow and a regular car too, like not
a police car. It was. It was. It was pretty crazy.
Crabbing in the back of anybody knows what a Honda
(09:59):
like CRV is that hatch back like kind of weird. Yeah,
I was crammed in the back of one of those.
They took me one hospital for a COVID test, took
me to another hospital for a drug test, took me
back to another hospital for a TV test that I
didn't even know what a TV test was. I just
knew that they were injecting, you know, something into my body,
(10:21):
and I'm like terrified because I'm like I'm gonna die. Yeah,
all that kind of just let me know that this
was going to be an experience that I never.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Thought well, and I can only imagine that moment because frankly,
the part that I imagine just even here you say this,
it's the feeling of powerless.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, oh yeah, super powerlessness. I mean just sitting in
the cell and seeing how they unlocked the doors. It's
not like, you know, there's a garden, you know, control
center hitting a button and you hear click it unlocks. No,
these are it's double doors. Old skeleton keys think like
green Moule or something like that, like old school, you know,
(11:00):
and the keys don't always work. They got to go
get another guard because their keys not working. I'm like, well,
if there's a fire, oh, there's probably about six hundred
people in this building, two doors for each cell. Oh
we're going to burn up. I'm gonna die. Like so,
like it was just constant fear the whole time. Wow.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
Yeah, and you were sentenced to nine years nine years.
Well one of the things that you did is that
you did you sent the letter to Charll, basically giving
her an out.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I did. Like, when you're sitting in the cell and
you just have a lot of time, you're just thinking,
and honestly, that's kind of like your worst your worst enemy.
Anybody knows me know how much I love this woman
sitting next to me right now, and for me to
sit here, sit there and ask her to wait nine
years when I know all her dreams, aspirations and everything
(11:54):
that she wanted to do family lawyer, on her own
law firm. I was just like, that's this is gonna
be a lot, It's gonna be hard. She didn't ask
for this. So I wrote her and I basically just
gave her out, gave her out and I told her.
I was like, I just asked, like, just be my friend,
(12:16):
you know, just talk to me, write me. But yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
Then Cheryl, the world witnessed you fighting so publicly, all
while grieving privately, and as Brittany was just saying, I
don't think a lot of us knew that you were
finishing up law school during your final year. I think
of law school during that time, so one of the
(12:42):
things already we can feel your strength and your resilience,
not only knowing the story but just what you emanate.
But was there anything that surprised you during that time
about your strength?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I never in a million years thought that I would
have the capacity to handle multiple things at the same
time that carried that much weight. And so I have
a mentor. She was my juvenile law professor, and she
had just ran for judge ship and she wanted and
so I just remember texting her and I was like,
(13:18):
Judge Mitchell, I'm about to come to your like you know, chambers.
And she's like, okay, you know, she's not thinking anything
of it because I've been toil this point. No one knows,
so I'm still going to school. So I went in
her office and I told her, I said, this isn't
public knowledge yet, and I knew I could trust her
with it. And I told her what had happened with BG.
And at that point it had only been like a
(13:39):
couple of days. And I was like, I don't know
the gravity of what's about to happen, but I think
they're keeping her. And I was crying in her office
won her chambers, and she looked at me and she
was just like, well, I want you to stop saying
you don't have the capacity. And she told me, she said,
do you have the capacity? She was like, but she
was like, it's your decision on the choice of what
(13:59):
you're going to do, what the capacity you have. She
was like, so if you choose to do both finish
law school and fight for BG. She was like, you can.
She was like, if you choose to just do one
of them, you can. She was like, but don't limit
yourself and just say you don't have the capacity. And
at that point I was like, girl, you don't work
your butt off, like you gotta finish law school. And
then I thought about it more and I'm like, you
(14:19):
love beg down, like we gotta get her back, and
so it became a no brainer. I was like, we're
about to do this, like you know, And at that point,
you know, I kind of, you know, I crumbled a
little bit, but eventually, you know, I had another mentor.
She was an attorney at a I was working at
a criminal homicide firm and my attorney at the time, Adrian.
(14:41):
She told me, she said, it's okay to go down Grainer.
She was like, but I'll call you in a couple
of days because you can't stay there. I was like, okay,
and so we hung up and I literally was in
that bed and she called me forty eight hours later
and she was just like, it's time to get up.
And you know, I'm just grateful for people like that
in my life. At the time. They helped me realize
(15:02):
that I could do it. And once I tell myself
I'm doing something, I'm doing it.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Because it became such a public case and it was
based on your advocacy, did you intentionally decide to make
it as public? Was that a strategy or did it
kind of snowball in and of itself?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh, absolutely was a strategy. The first thing we did
was really really really strategic by doing nothing, because when
something is that big, and you know something is at
risks that big as well, because the situation was big,
but also the risk management was Begi's life. You know,
that's huge to me, and so we're not just going
(15:41):
to go in there swinging. We had no idea what
we were dealing with, and so we sat back silent
for a couple of weeks because we really wanted to
see the trajectory of what we were dealing with. Because
sometimes big things, if you know the right people, can
become really small things.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
So we are just silent, making really powerful phone calls
to try and see, you know, is this really what
we think it is? Or can we take this medical
marijuana cartage and really treated what it is a really
small thing you know, because she's declarated, she's very distinguished
(16:20):
in Russia, like her footprint is good, you know. So
we were really trying to do that route first while
we sat back and at the same time, you know,
I like to say Parallelaine's. We were trying this route,
but we were also strategically trying to figure out, if
this gets us nowhere, what do we do next? And
so I'm grateful to the other families that were already
(16:42):
experiencing one of their loved ones being wrongfully detained. And
I got to meet a few of them at the
James Foley Foundation dinner like two weeks after PG was detained,
and that changed everything for me because I met daughter's wives, sisters, mothers, brothers,
all of the above, and they all told me something
(17:03):
that hit my soul so hard. They said, I can't
believe you're here. They were like, when it happened to us,
we were just in bed for months. They were like,
and everyone told us to be quiet, and they were like,
and we did that and three years past and at
that point, wait what he said, how many ys? And
I'm in my brain, I'm like, I'm not prepared for
(17:24):
three years. I'm not prepared for at that point, I
wasn't prepared for a month, you know. And so I
went back and I talked to BG's agent and I'm like, hey,
everyone's telling me that they were quiet first, and we're
right now quiet first. We need to change that. We
cannot do whatever they did because it didn't work. We
have to do something different. And so that's when we
(17:47):
were just like, okay, like you know, let's start getting
all the collective hands together. Let's start, you know, making
this a movement. I want to say. At first they
were like love BG. I was like, hate it. No,
can't do it. We don't relate because they don't all
just love BG. Okay. I was like, no, we need
something better. And finally they brought me we are BG,
and I was like that's it. I was like that's
the one. And I'm like, let's get it going, you know, like,
(18:09):
let's get this ball rolling. And I'm like, we're just
you know, we're just gonna keep it going because two
seconds I knew that we weren't going to stay quiet,
because if silence got them nowhere, then we would be
as loud as it take. It's kind of how my
mind sat was at the time.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Let me ask something different. Was there a fan presence
in Russia that were saying something even though I'm I
imagine people are just used to being restricted because how
the government is run. But were there fans who were
saying wait a minute, wait a minute in Russia?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Oh? Yeah no. And I was actually shocked that I
got letters from fans all over Russia asking if they
could like send me stuff that word Russian living in Russia,
saying that they were sorry for what was happening to me.
I had them telling me, I mean, I had guards
telling me at times, you know, different things like there
(19:07):
was some angels. There was definitely some hidden angels along
the way. Don't worry, You're you're your country is going
to get you like you You're going to go home
like and I'm just like, I hope so, uh my
salemates would tell me all the time too. I kind
of got a little bit of a crash. Course. I
guess they're way of life, not by you know, school
(19:27):
or anything, but by just living it. And I could
see that they had no hope for them for themselves,
but they they had a lot of hope you know,
through me for me to go home. And I think
that kind of became like a little thing, especially in
my room at least, you know, you.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
Know my my dad And one of his speeches said,
only in the darkness can you see the stars. So
what was your lowest moment and how did you find
the strength to keep going when everything in you wanted
to give up?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Lowest moment for me, I was in isolation for a
little bit over a week.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
And.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Uh, this is when I first got to like their
like their county. I guess you would call it jail.
I hadn't seen my lawyer yet. He was still trying
to find me because last he told me he would
have to find me because they're not going to just
tell them where I went. So I had nothing. I
had three shirts, I had my shoes, my Nike Duck
boot shoes on. I had a Parker jacket, no toothbrush,
(20:38):
no soap, no food, no nothing. So I had to
take a shirt, found a rough piece of metal, ripped
it and that was what I used to clean myself with.
And uh, it was just a really low I felt dirty,
I felt not like a human, I felt less than
a human, felt less than animal, honestly, And I thought
(21:01):
about you know, I thought about ending it. I saw
some metal where I could break it off, thought about it,
But then I also thought about my family. I thought
about my wife, thought about my mom, my dad, my siblings. Like,
I mean, they're holding me now, Like who's to say
they were going to release my body? And now you know,
(21:21):
my family's trying to fight to get me my body
home and all that kind of went through my mind
and I was like, I can't do that to them.
I have to be strong. And I thought about my
dad being in Vietnam and you know, stories that he
shared with me, and you know, he shared a lot
with me and his resilience to get through that, to
make it through that and get back home. I was like,
I can do the same thing. So that was my
(21:44):
my fight, my you know, I just got to make
it back home so that everybody can lay eyes on
me and find that strengthen my pops had over there.
Speaker 6 (21:52):
Wow. Pretty What were some of the insights from your
dad and his experience being a veteran that shared and
shaped you in your insights in terms of when you
needed that strength the most.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, not giving away too much, because you know, I
really I really value those those stories that he that
he shared with me and only me. But you know,
he he did talk about, you know, just front lines,
being walking through the jungle, watching his his his friends
that he had made over there, falling, you know, traps
and seeing their bodies the way they are, and you know,
some very grewsome stories from war and he had to
(22:28):
go through that. And I see how he went through that.
He came back and still had a family, still you know,
went to work, still endured and did what he needed
to do and just kept going forward in the face
of a lot of things. Also where he grew up to.
My dad grew up in Jasper, Texas. Anybody that knows
(22:49):
anything about Jasper, Texas, it was not the best in
the South. The Jamesburg Junior Dragon and.
Speaker 5 (22:54):
We investigated that. I don't know if you all heard
about that. This was a black man that was put
on the back of a truck and was dragged by
dragged until he was decapitated. When I used to monitor
hate groups and hate crimes, that was one of the
cases that I worked on.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yep, it was down Hull Creek Road. Yes, my whole
family is buried down that road cemetery. So we have
a lot of ties to that, but I know he
went through all this and I still can see this man.
And he had his flaws everybody does, but I still
see a strong man providing for his family and his kids.
And I'm like, oh, that that's gonna be me. I'm
(23:32):
going to do the same thing, and I can I
can't be that.
Speaker 7 (23:35):
So, Sharil, what image or memory kept coming back to
you as you were not going to lose hope? But
yet some days we all sort of feel like hopeless?
What is it that kept you going?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I would say, just who BG is, and like we
have a really good think on here. You know, my
life immediately got harder without her, and so you know,
you chose right at that point, you know, because the
things that BG does, like on a day to day
were instantly missed, you know. And so for me, it's like, Okay,
(24:14):
I definitely need her back because this ship doesn't really
ship the way it needs to, Like we are a
cold like we we co do this, you know, And
so adding on all the things BG do on top
of the things I do was insane to me. You know,
I was like absolutely not insign up for this, Like
I want to co ship again. Like I want to
co captain this thing. I do not want to be
(24:35):
the only captain of this ship. Because this is the
type of person where I'm like, hey, I have an
exam Friday, and I kid, you're not maybe Thursday, Wednesday,
I have roses and and food sent. She's like, I
know you're studying, like you know.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So she's like.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, well wait wait I'm sorry, let's go back.
Yeah you sent you had flowers sent from.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Yourself, a whole like a tinerary thing.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, for our anniversary. So yeah, like she wrote, yeah,
she wrote somebody on the team or whoever, I know
who she talked to on the saw. But it was
a shock for me because I was not expecting that.
But I was accustomed to things like that. But I
was like, okay, sure these things are going to stop,
and she's told him. I was okay with that, but yeah,
she totally surprised me. It was like a thick, really
(25:31):
nice just like nine by ten like paper, and it
just had picture of us on it and just the
whole day's worth for me to do on our anniversary.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
I'm sorry, like okay, like there is no excuses.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I thought was prison.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yes, I set the bar kind of high. Sorry guys, sorry.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Coming up.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
What do you say to the love of your life
after almost three hundred days he's in a Russian prison?
Brittany takes us there.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Now back to my legacy, So can I post a
question each of you the moments in two different countries.
I assume you weren't talking at this moment live when
each of you heard that you were going to be freed.
Can you take us to that moment when each of
you heard that news? What was running through mind? After
ten months of fearless fighting and advocacy. And to all
(26:28):
of our listeners and audience members, we see you know
you're laughing, you're joking. But I remember watching the story
as we all did, and the narrative could have played
out just as easily. You know, the war has it
ended in This could have gone on for years to
the present day. This was far from a foregone conclusion. Yes,
(26:48):
and so just for each of you, what was that moment.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I was working. I was at IK two, I was
at the actual penal colony at this point, I was
working in fabric with the second offenders and the lady
that was basically like kind of over me helping me.
She was also locked up as well. She worked in
the kitchen, but she came to me and was like,
get your stuff, Harry up. I was like, what do
you mean? She was like, no, you have to go,
(27:14):
like check you out, like you're you're there's some people
here you have to talk to, and I think you're
you're going home. I got extremely happy, but then I
immediately went back to the cold, just stone face, and
I was like, I'm not going to believe it until
my feet are on us oil. I was like, anything
(27:35):
can fall through, not make it there signature, a period
wasn't somewhere, and you know it's all messed up. So uh,
I did check out. Got gave away all my stuff
to the to the girls because when I say, they
had nothing, nothing, so I gave them everything I had
(27:56):
and I got transported maybe the next day or day
after that to the men's prison down in Moscow. Stayed
there a couple of days. Thought I was getting checked
back in. This is where I was in front of
like eight or nine men. They had me stripped down
all the way, camera had me spinning, and I was
(28:18):
just like, I'm not gonna give you a reaction because
I know that that's what you're looking for. So one
more attempt to humiliate me, I guess. But the next day,
about five mask guards they come get me, put me
in a van. They take me around Moscow one last loop.
(28:38):
They asked me, you know who lives there. I'm like, no,
they're talking about Putin. They were like our great leader.
I was just like, oh, okay, I said okay, and
then they took me to the airport. I got on
that plane and immediately I could just feel it in
my stomach, just the butterflies of like the anxiousness, but
(28:59):
still until I get on that US soil. And it
wasn't until I saw her in that US flag that
I felt like, okay, it's happening, Like I can I
can be relieved now. And yeah, I couldn't wait for
that warm embrace.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
And for me, I didn't know because they do really
phone calls from a sitting US president or extremely extremely discreet,
and so this was not my first time President bideny
had called me, and so I mean, in my mind,
I'm like, I don't think that it's because BG's coming home.
(29:40):
So I knew it was going to be some news
and normally, if he's calling me and wants to see me,
it's something he can't say over the phone he wants
to say in the over office. And I was excited
because I'm like, you're not gonna waste my time, Like
we have a good relationship, you know, like he knows
I'm grieving. He's not just asking me to come there
(30:00):
for no reason. So I'm like, Okay, it must be
something good. So I was expecting to go there to
hear good news, but I'm thinking it's good news as
of like, hey like the channel to give BG back.
I think it's working. I think we're getting close, you know,
because we had had one of those conversations before and
it had to be in person. So in my brain,
(30:21):
that's what I'm going there for. So I pack a
bag for me to go to DC so that I
can you know, meet President Biden the next morning and
just you know, hear whatever it is he has to
tell me. And I get a phone call from BG's
agent and she's like schreyl. She was like, did you
pack a bag for BG as well? And I was like,
(30:42):
why would I do that? No, because that's torture for me.
You want me to go in there and touch her
clothes and pack a bag that you know she may
not need. Like that's insane. No, I'm not doing that.
Did he tell you I should? And she's like no,
but I mean, like I'm feeling really good, and I'm like, okay, well,
I'm not that optimistic to go in there and pack
this bag because it's gonna crush me, like literally crush
(31:04):
me if I can't give it to her, you know.
And so she's like, I would still like you to
just pack one just in case. Okay, Lindsey, I'll pack
the bag. And the next day I gets to the
White House and I go in the over office, and
you know, I think I knew the minute I saw
(31:25):
his face what he was about to say, because he's
such a nice person. But he doesn't get up that early.
Like our meeting was extremely early, and so everybody kept
saying like, hey, he must love you, and I'm like,
what are y'all talking about? Like everyone in the Oval
office networks there. It's just like president body is not
up at seven am for anybody. And I'm like, okay,
well I feel great about this. And yeah, so he
(31:47):
came in, he looked at me and he grabbed my
hands like this, and he busted a smile that big,
and I knew what he was about to say, and
he said, we got her. And I just started crying
and he was like, we got her, and he he
went and grabbed the phone and he was just like,
my people will be calling this phone soon, and he
was just like, we got her. And I mean, my
(32:11):
entire just everything changed at that point.
Speaker 6 (32:14):
And what was going through your heart at that point.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I couldn't believe it. I was utterly in shock, like
utterly in shock. I could not believe that he was
able to do it, especially at that speed. I don't
think a lot of people understand the trajectory of what
he did in the time that he did that in
it was unheard of, like no one has ever come
(32:36):
home in ten months.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
And then take us to the moment when you guys
saw each other for that first time getting off the plane.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I'm allowed to ask, what did you guys say to
each other?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I mean, I broke down Crown on the plane. I
switched seat so I could see her pulling in. I'm bawling,
but in my mind, and I use I use humor
a lot as a mechanism like for everything, like bad situations,
good situations, all that. In my mind, I was like,
do not fall down these stairs. You went through all this,
(33:07):
don't ruin it by falling down the stairs in front
of everybody. So I was nervous for that, but I
got down them stairs. I ran over to her big hug,
whispered in her ear, I'm so sorry. I know you're
going to kill me, but I have to. You know,
hand just let's just say hand, little squeeze, just touch.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Mind you is so many people in that room, I'm like,
if you don't get your little hands off me so embarrassed,
I'm like, no.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
This also though, this, yes, this has never happened this fast,
and the trajectory was unusual. But let's also give credit
where credit is due. And one of the things that
I was just thinking about, there's this famous story that
when your father went to see President Johnson, when he
was saying, look, you know, doctor King, I really want
(34:02):
to support this bill, but you know, I really just
don't have the power. You know that we don't have
the power to get this done. And so when they
were walking out of the Oval office, your father said
to his lieutenants well, let's go get the president some power.
So what you did, and and you know, we certainly
should give the president, you know, all of his credits
(34:25):
for doing what he did, but also let's be clear
that it took a determined, strong woman to give the
president the power to get this done.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
I like that.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
You so pretty. So you get back and just tell
us about what that transition was like. And you've spoken
openly about anxiety and trauma following your return, and how
did you get back to a point where you were
mentally be able to refocus on all that you needed
(34:59):
to focus on In the United States.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
A lot of great people, I'll say that, too many
people to name, but so many great people. I got
to give my wife a lot of the credit because
she knew when I was good, she knew when I wasn't.
She knew when I was lying to myself saying I
was good and I really wasn't. She gave me the
space to not be okay because there was there was
(35:23):
that initial your home. Oh my god, I'm so happy.
Everything's great, Like we're just going to fall right back
into everything being normal, and it's like, no, like I've changed,
she's changed, Like things have changed, and not for the bad,
but just things have changed and there's healing now. And
then there's different times where I'll hear something, see something,
(35:46):
or something will remind me and it'll kind of like
throw me back. And then sometimes it won't throw me back,
but I just want to talk about it. So there
was a it was just an up and down flux,
but I just knew I needed her right beside me.
One little quick story. We were in the hospital when
I came back. There was a program that I went
(36:06):
into to get reimmersed back in went to the army base.
An amazing program and amazing people at that military base
down in San Antonio that I met, But they kind
of wanted us separate just because of you know, you
never know how somebody's going to reaccliment being back, night terrors,
anything can go, anything happened. But I was like, no,
(36:29):
I need her with me in this room. I want
to just start talking and telling her everything. And I
was away from her this whole time, isolated. I don't
want to be isolated anymore, like absolutely not. So after
a couple of phone calls and a couple more phone calls,
they were like, okay, you know and she came and
because I was watching the news, they were like, wait,
(36:50):
you're doing what I was like, I'm watching the news.
I want to know everything that was said, what was done.
They were like, hey, like, don't do that. I was like, well,
I need her then I'm watching it.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah. I was really shocked when they called because they
told us like we got to see each other maybe
for like an hour at the bunker. They had like
a little room with snacks and things, and we talked
and then they were like, Okay, shyl you're gonna go
back to the house on the base. Beg'll meet you
at the house like in like two days or something.
They said like we were supposed to go like almost
forty eight hours not seeing each other as she went
(37:22):
through testing and conversations and different things like that, and
I get a phone call. We separated maybe for I
don't know, like when they told you were going to
the hospital and I went back to the house. We
weren't a part that long before I got a phone
call and they're like, we're coming to get you and
bring you to the hospital. I'm like, but I thought you, guys, said,
and they're like no, BEG said, and I.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Was like, Okay, I was gonna check myself out, but yeah,
I just needed her. And it was like and I
do understand, but I did understand what they were saying
because as much as I wanted to see the rest
of my immediate family, it was just kind of hard
because like I could see the ten months of grief,
I can see the aging, I can see the you know.
(38:08):
It was just it was good to see them, but
I needed to see them in doses, you know, because
it was just like it was a lot for me
because every time they cry cry, I felt like I
felt like I let my dad down, felt like, you know,
it was just all these little things, these little things
that you just hold on to, and I was like, yeah, no,
I just need my wife right now.
Speaker 6 (38:29):
So if you're looking for stories that move you, insights
that shift you, in conversations that stay deeply within you,
do us a favor and do yourself a favor it
hit the subscribe button right now. It's the best way
to support this podcast and support your journey. New episodes
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Speaker 1 (38:50):
Now.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Back to my Legacy, prit me it.
Speaker 7 (38:53):
Five months since you got back and that you first
walked on the court again. With your Phoenix Mercury team.
What was that moment?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Like that was challenging. That was tough. I've never been
challenged like that in my professional career ever. It's never
been that hard either. My body went through a toll,
so you know, I'm trying to get back muscle mass.
I'm trying to put weight, good weight back on, take
off the bad weight. I mean that first. I think
(39:26):
the first time I worked out, I definitely cried, like
I broke down. I think I was asking you, I
was like you, I was like do I should I
just stop?
Speaker 5 (39:34):
Like?
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Should I just not do this? So it was tough,
but I will give credit to my team at the time,
the Phoenix Mercury. You know, they were very understanding with
just giving me the time, giving me the space, making
sure I had an outlet, and I didn't feel like
I was rushed back into it at all. It was
(39:56):
definitely definitely my my doing just you know, throw back
in the fire and let's let's get it going. But
it was tough getting back into it, but I loved
every moment of it. That first game fans yelling had
a little video. It was definitely emotional. I was in
the back like who pull it together? You gotta go
out here and be a beast, like come on, can't
(40:17):
be crying. But it was just it felt good, like
having that warm welcome back from everybody, because I mean, honestly,
I didn't know, like not everybody was happy I came back,
you know, I'll say that. So I didn't know going
into some of these arenas like am I gonna get booed?
You know, like you know so, But it was it
(40:39):
was all positive from you know, the fans and every
arena and every organization that you know, we visited. The play.
Speaker 6 (40:48):
And the w NBA has taken off. You know, we're
seeing incredible engagements, leadership, talent, dunks, everything. But you know,
one of the things to note again is why you
were in Russia in the first place was because the
pay disparity between what was going on for the male
NBA players and then the w n B A. Can
you speak to that pay disparity issue in your mind
(41:11):
and what needs to be done to help address it?
Speaker 7 (41:14):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Well, one, I'm just I'm so glad to be a
part of the league that with the players that step
up and we use our voices and we use our
platforms to advocate for ourselves and for others. And then yeah, no,
I mean I was going. I went to China first.
My first year was actually in China. My first year
was in China, and then after that, I was first
(41:36):
two years in China, and then I was in Russia
the rest of the time. And like I said, it's
for the pay, the pay gap in between the male
and the female. You know, athletes a lot of times
they like to throw numbers at you. They like to
throw you know, ratings and viewership, and we're not bringing
in enough ticket sale. And we have put in the work,
(41:57):
the product has put in the work, and we have
changed that. You see it across the board in college
and in our sport All Star the tournament. We have
the viewership, we have the numbers now and the demand
is there, and we're just you know telling them, hey,
you know, like we are the product. There is no
(42:20):
there is no league without us, and you have to
respect us and pay us the right way for us
to continue doing what we're doing, so we don't have
to go into these other countries, be away from our
families for six months at a time, putting off starting families.
I mean, it's a lot that goes into it. So
(42:41):
I think we're in a good spot though right now,
and I just hope we just keep making this progress.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
It's not the argument that I always see, which is
there say we want to make the exact same dollar
that our NBA counterparts are making. That is not it.
I think the biggest takeaway that they're asking for is
that they want what BG said, they want to be
paid the right way, meaning they want the right percentage.
So the reason why the NBA are making X amount
(43:11):
of dollars just because they're getting X amount of percentage
from all the money that is being made. So the
w b A players are saying, Hey, we just want
X percentage of everything that's made, and if everything that
we bring in, if you give us this percentage and
the MAC salary is one hundred thousand dollars, will shut up.
(43:34):
And that's what they're saying. So God are saying it
like what y'all saying is her we just want the
percentage and we don't we won't say anything about the
dollar value at that point, and that what they're arguing
is right. And it's just and it needs to be
very clear because I see so much people they don't
deserve that that type of money. That's not what they're saying.
Speaker 6 (43:55):
They need a high power lawyer working with them to
create another movie.
Speaker 5 (44:03):
Exactly. Now we see where this is going. That's exactly
because you just made it playing. You just made it playing.
So I think everyone understands, and I.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Think we've all loved watching the two of you. The
fact that this entire interview for the audience who doesn't
see this, you have not let go of each other's hands. No,
but we alt to shut that out. You have literally
not let go of each other's hands this entire time,
And just the vulnerability, the openness, the journey from childhood
to love. I love the quote It's okay to go down,
(44:34):
but you cannot stay there. And Brittany, I love the
quote everyone deserves to look in the mirror and be happy,
and that the greatest wins are how hard you fight
for someone you just love. So thank you both for
giving us this great privilege and honor for your first
interview together in this way.
Speaker 5 (44:54):
Thank you both, And I think that is that's your theme,
never letting each other's hand and go so literally how
you all physically held hands, You all have held hands
throughout the decades and like that is your your thing,
holding each other's hand.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
You heard it right here.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us
on at my Legacy movement on social media and YouTube.
New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
At its core, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Honors doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the
power of connection. A Legacy Plus studio production distributed by
iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne Hayward Come executive producer
Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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