February 17, 2025 • 61 mins
David Oyelowo always knew he was meant to play Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in Selma - but Hollywood didn’t see it that way. It took seven years, unwavering faith, and a powerful act of brotherhood to finally bring that dream to life.
Join hosts Martin Luther King III, Arndrea Waters King, Marc Kielburger, and Craig Kielburger as they sit down with David and his best friend, Nate Parker, on My Legacy for a powerful conversation about legacy, lifting others up, and the responsibility of telling the truth through film.
David reflects on his Nigerian heritage and the esteem instilled in him by the legacy of his grandfather, a tribal king. In contrast, Nate opens up about growing up in Norfolk, Virginia, where success was defined by escaping his roots - until he discovered the power of embracing and elevating untold Black stories. Their paths first crossed on Red Tails, a film about the legendary Tuskegee Airmen, and their shared passion for amplifying Black voices forged an unbreakable bond—one grounded in faith and a relentless drive to challenge barriers and bring untold stories to light.
From the fight to bring Selma to the screen to the lessons learned from the heroes who came before them, this conversation is a tribute to perseverance, purpose, and enduring friendship.
Don’t miss Part 1 of this extraordinary discussion on My Legacy.
Creator and Executive Producer: Suzanne Hayward
Co-Executive Producer: Lisa Lisle
Editor Duane Fogwell
Post-production producer Tina Pittaway
A/V by Garcia Creative
Produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Executive Producer Gabrielle Collins.
Like our podcast? Visit http://youtube.com/@mylegacymovement to see full episodes.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
The feedback from the director at that time was David o'
yellowell is not Doctor King. Three years went by and
it was a phone call from Nate.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Have you heard of this film, Selma.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I've been asked to audition, and I really think you
should go up for.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
This the director and he had reached out through someone
to me and I said, do you know David o' yellowell.
I can remember him just kind of pausing, because rarely
will someone be talking about a role and ask him
if they know someone else, And I said, you really
should be David.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
When I finally got the meeting, he sent me a
book called nineteen sixty five, Selma, just research for the audition.
I'm emotional about it because I've never experienced anything like
this before.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Since Hella Loves I'm Andrea Waters King. That was David o'
yellowell reflecting on a pivotal moment in his journey to
playing Doctor King, a moment shaped by the unwavering support
of his best friend Nate Parker. And today, during Black
History Month, David and Nate's story of brotherhood, faith, and
breaking barriers takes on even greater meeting. It's about the
(01:12):
power of standing together in a world that too often divides,
because legacy isn't just what we accomplish, it's the people
we lived up along the way. This is My Legacy,
a podcast hosted by me and my husband, Martin Luther King,
the oldest son of doctor Martin Luther King Junior and
Coretta Scott King. Together we're caring forward their iconic legacy
(01:35):
of equality, peace and justice. Plus we're joined by our
good friends New York Times bestselling authors Mark and Craig Kilberger.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Let's begin.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
Welcome to My Legacy Podcast, where we help you create
a living legacy and live a fulfilled life. One of
the things that makes this podcast special is that we
don't just meet extraordinary individuals. We meet the people who
know them best. These are the ones who shared their
high There are loads and everything in between, giving us
deeper insight and understanding into what truly shapes who they
(02:06):
are and the legacy they want to create. David o' yellow,
you brought someone remarkable with you here today, Nate Parker.
Would you do us the honor of introducing him to
our audience and who he is in your life?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes, Nate is my best friend in the world. We
met over a decade ago doing a film called Red
Tales Together, and I found in him a kindred spirit,
not just as as an actor and an artist, but
also as an advocate for others, as someone who is
(02:39):
deeply invested in community. I learnt the phrase we not
me from him, and that's something he absolutely lives by.
He has five kids. I have four, so he's one
of the few people I know.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Who beats me.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The way he really beats me is that he has
five daughters and I have three sons and a daughter.
And my gosh, the fact that my daughter has on
my heart. I just don't know how you manage it
with five daughters. He's just someone I deeply admire, has
been incredibly impactful in my life, and yeah, as I say,
(03:12):
one of my favorite people on the planet.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
We want to get to know both of you and
your relationship, but David, can we take a little bit
of a step back to get to know you better? Yeah,
you have a remarkable origin story, and I love the
fact that, if I'm not mistaken, your last name actually
means king. Yes, so I love that mister King and
mister King. But what impact does that have in your
(03:36):
sense of legacy when you can trace your roots to
your grandfather, who was a tribal Nigerian king.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, the full meaning of a yellow actually means a
king deserves respect and it's an extraordinary thing to be
born into a family. Where as you say, that is
the legacy, in fact, a very touching moment for me,
where you can take that for granted when it's something
you've had since you were born. But Nate came to
(04:06):
the memorial service of my mother when she had passed away,
and my cousins were there, who are more like uncles.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
They're quite a bit older.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Than me, and they were talking about the meaning of
not just our last name, but our.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Names in general.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And Nate came up to me afterwards, very very emotional
and saying, I really was impacted by what we as
African Americans have lost in terms of our names, the
fact that our names are not necessarily steeped in the
(04:45):
history that or the likes of the history to which
you have our names are rooted in something more painful historically.
Like I say, I take my name for granted, but
there is something about the disposition you walk in knowing
that your grandfather was a king and I lived in
Nigeria from the age of six to thirteen, and I
(05:08):
lived in a society, in a culture, in a country
where I was part of the majority, not the minority,
and that had an enormous impact on me. When I
then returned to the UK age thirteen and now living
in America for the last seventeen years, something that happened
(05:29):
for me which was a real blessing. Between the age
of six and thirteen, when I lived in Nigeria, what
was eroded in me was a minority mentality, and that
meant that no matter the environment I go in, I
don't see myself as a minority, regardless of whether that
is one of the definitions that is attributed to me.
(05:51):
I walk in in the center of my own life.
I apply that to the stories I want to tell
and how I choose to live my life. And so
that was really formative for me. Only my name where
I'm from, but having a time of living there and
then being able to apply that, you know, as I
move forward in my life.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Well, it's interesting because I can also see a connection
with that and with Martin's father because the name and
taking the power back of your name, because most people
don't know that Martin Luther King Junior was born Michael
Michael King, and that his father, his grandfather, was so
inspired by the German reformer Martin Luther, that well, I
(06:35):
don't want to tell your story, Honey.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
You're doing a good job.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Can I keep that on loose?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (06:42):
My grandfather changed his name at about thirty maybe he
was thirty five and Dad was six or seven. So
he came back from Germany after an experience and seeing
the influence of Martin Luther, and he just came back
to Atlanta said I'm no longer Michael, I'm Martin Luther King,
(07:04):
a senior, and my son is going to be Martin
Luther King Jr. So you think about the fact that
all of that says something about who my grandfather was
and indirectly impacting who my father became. So Martin Luther
King Junior saw injustice like all of us did. But
(07:29):
he saw his father stand up against a system that
was in just and say we're not going to tolerate that.
And so it prepared Dad for in existence to constantly
challenge a system to become right. The system we all
knew was wrong. But what do you do about it?
You can choose an I want expecific example going into
(07:49):
a department store in the front door where everyone would
come to buy shoes, and Dad took his sons in,
and the clerks had looked, Reverend King, if you could
come in the back, we'll be happy to serve you.
My grandfather grabbed his sons and he said, if we
cannot buy shoes and come in and be treated with
dignity and respect, we will not shop here. And I'm
(08:12):
going to tell my three thousand members not to come here.
So Dad, seeing this at a young age was one
of the many examples that he saw that helped him
ultimately become a change maker.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
And you have to understand too, even more so like
the power of the Black Church. So you were the
minister of one of the largest congregations. You're not going
to refer to me this way anymore. This is who
I am, and all of you all must refer to
me now as Martin Luther. And not only that, you
know my son is now. Can you imagine going back
(08:44):
to school and telling his teachers I'm no longer Myael.
You know, you know I'm Martin Luther. You know just
that power. And I'm also curious what type of is
there are any childhood experiences from both of you all
that have really impacted legacy and how you view legacy
and what you all are sharing with your kids and
(09:05):
how you've moved.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Forward with that.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Well, you know, I would say the thing that has
been said here just now that really comes home to
me is you cannot be what you cannot see. And
you know, for your grandfather to decide that I recognize
my position in this community, and I am going to
(09:29):
redefine how I am seen based on the legacy of
someone else who is more in line with the legacy
I want to have, and then that goes on to
be the legacy of your dad and then you and
then we all know what that has meant for the world.
Tied to Martin Luther, the original who was the inspiration
(09:50):
for the change of the name, I think that in
and of itself really demonstrates not only the power of
a name, but the power of intention. A lot has
been done to try and break people by changing the
definition of who they are, whether it be their name
(10:12):
or racial epithets that are used, or just ways of
recalibrating how they should see themselves and the people who
do that know that there is power in doing that,
power in denigrating a people, whether it be how they
are referred to as a group or their names in particular.
And so to see your grandfather do that and for
(10:34):
it to go on to have such incredible impact, just
that change from Michael to Martin, there's not much difference
when you look at those names, but the origin of
the name, the reason for changing the name, and then
the legacy of the name. It goes to your spirit,
It goes to your mindset, and it gives you a
(10:58):
fuel and an engine that you towards wanting to ascend
to the power of that name. So that's why I
talk about you cannot be what you cannot see once
you've seen it, once you have been able to redefine
the nature of what it is you are here to do.
And what also I was so inspired by is your
grandfather talking about you will not have access to my
(11:20):
three thousand strong congregation if you do not choose to
refer to us or treat us in a rightful way.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That's power.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So it's a recognition of who you are and the
power you actually have, and the combination of those two
things are incredibly impactful. And so to your question about
a childhood memory, you know, I go back to living
in a country for a time where every opportunity on
(11:50):
offer was mine for the taking, and how different that
is than when you then are living in a country where,
by definition, by example, in reality, and by perception, that
is not necessarily the case. And I call it the
Sydney Poitier syndrome. There is a reason why he had
(12:12):
the kind of outsized success here in America that even
today we as black actors, are trying to get to.
It's because he grew up in an environment as a
child that didn't have the same pressures as it pertains
to the redefinition of him. He grew up in the Bahamas.
(12:33):
He grew up in a place where he was part
of the majority, and so he also didn't have that
minority mentality. So by the time he came to America
and people were constantly trying to deny him opportunities, he
sort of had an attitude of I don't understand why
you do that. I'm going to continue to walk in
my truth. And that truth. You know, there's a saying
(12:54):
people treat your home the way you treat it he
treated himself the way he expected other people to treat him,
and that meant that doors opened for him differently, I think,
And so that childhood he had, I think helped him
move through the world in a certain way. Mine certainly
did as well.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Stay with us as David and Nate share more of
this powerful journey and inspiring friendship. We're back with David
(13:35):
oh Yelo and his best friend Nate Parker on the
My Legacy podcast.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And so much of my friendship with Nate has been
really looking at who we are as men, as black men,
considering the platform we've been afforded. Not unlike your grandfather
with that three thousand congregation, we have an audience who
are invested.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
In the things we may.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You know, I fought seven years to get the privilege
to pay your play your father. I watched Nate fight
so hard to get the story of Nat Turner told.
And one of the extraordinary things that happen is I
desperately wanted him to be in Selma, and I remember
(14:22):
calling him up, and I think it was the part
of John Lewis that I was actually quite keen for
him to play. And he said, David, I've made a
vow to myself that I'm not going to be on
another set unless it is to make Birth of a Nation.
And even though we were best friends and I was
reaching out to him to say, look, come have a
(14:45):
good old time making this film with me, I deeply
admired his conviction to be like, no, this is one
of the things I've been put here on the planet
to do. And he stuck with it, and that was
I can't remember the years long. I know is many
years a long journey for that to come to fruition,
but that conviction is just so inspiring to me.
Speaker 8 (15:05):
Thank you tell us about that. And I know you're
asked about legacy and what that means to you in
terms of your childhood, but that was an incredible story.
How do you feel about hearing that and how do
you share that with our audience?
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Well, I'll try to speak speak to all of it.
I think we underestimate as a people programming language. I
have a you know, a computer technology background before I
became an artist. A lot of people don't know that
about me, but I remember having a professor and he said,
you know, a program will only do what it's coded
to do, no matter what you tell it to do,
(15:39):
it will only do what the code says. So if
a program didn't work and we came to it's not working,
so we'll check the code. But it's right. Well, if
it's right, then it will perform. It will execute, and
if it doesn't, there's something in the code. So we
think about our behavior as a people, specifically people who
are of the legacy, legacy of the enslaved in this
country so much, and this speaks to being brought up.
(15:59):
I was in Norfolk, Virginia, so so much of what
I desired to do with my life, what I wanted
to do, what how I deemed success as a man,
as a black man, as a as someone who was
you know, a part of my family name. Very little
of it, as I look now at forty five years old,
(16:20):
was healthy. You know where I come from. Your goal
is to get the money, no matter what, just don't
be poor. Escape, you know. So when you have an
entire community and their goals are set on escaping rather
than renovating or changing or improving, then problems will follow.
(16:42):
We're speaking from from you know, degradation, speaking from what
we've been told about ourselves. But it's a we're speaking
from teachers who tell us. I remember teacher sitting me
down saying you're gifted. You can get out of here,
literally looking in my eyes, telling me I could escape
from those around me if I just kept working hard enough.
(17:03):
And so all of a sudden, you look around identifying
your peers as problems, as people you do not want
to be around. So then when you escape, you celebrate
yourself as someone who escaped, and then you speak to
the fact that you've escaped. We hear it in all
the conversations I got out. I made it out. In
northern Virginia, there is no pro team, so there was
no aspiration to be a football player. There's no aspiration
(17:24):
to be a basketball player. You will either be in
the military and be in the naval shipyard, or you
will sell drugs, or you will in some other way
fall by the wayside or be in service forever. And
so my upbringing was not so different than many that
come from the South. So and I say that as
a contrast to being able to walk in the room
and say this is my room, we would walk into
(17:47):
the room and say, if only I can get away
from them, I may be able to shine in a
way that I could have a success where I could
have a position in this country that programming language without
being able to go to Germany in getting a new
line of code or somewhere else. You're kind of destined
(18:08):
to be to live at the ceiling that has been
designed for you. And it wasn't till even though I
went to college that I learned about that Turner, which
is why it became my obsession. Any room I came
into and they say, well, who's your hero before they
could finish, I'd say that Turner one, because I was
so inspired by the sacrifice, because I think that is
a theme that I'm sure we'll touch on. But also
(18:30):
I was so enraged by the fact that in all
of my schooling in Norfolk, Virginia, thirty five miles from
Southampton County, I never heard of the man only in whispers,
in ways that it was clipped before it could make
it all the way out of the mouth of the
person who's saying it. And that is problematic. So when
I left and learned, my goal was not to escape anymore,
(18:51):
but to come back with that story to remind people
that there was another side to that. There was someone
that said we will not tolerate this behavior. We were
put here by the God that we're looking up to,
who created the heavens and earth, that has a purpose
for us. That is not to be your mule, that
is not to be your animal. And so that became
my mission, which is why I switched very quickly away
(19:15):
from a computer. I didn't want to be an engineer.
I ended up being an actor because I said, you know,
I always asked. I asked David this, and I asked friends,
you know who has had more impact on medicine, Ben
Carson or you know a guy from Er.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (19:32):
The reality is more people went to medical school from
Mere than Ben Carson. Ben Carson is a genius. The
power of storytelling is so evident. But the storytelling is
just programming. We're teaching people how to be. If you
don't see it, you can't be it. So, you know,
to answer your question. Growing up in Virginia, the programming
(19:52):
language was very clear on what I would be able
to achieve. But it took me leaving. You know, college
was my Germany to get what I needed to do come
back and to change the people that were around me
and to change my mindset on the art of the possible.
When it came to came to people who look like
me now for natur for telling that story, I had
to make a decision, you know, Paul Robison said, the
artists much must decide whether he will fight for freedom
(20:14):
of bondage. I've made my decision, and it was so
inspiring to me that I said I need to. There's
there's only far, so far.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You can go.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Holding out in your hand what someone else has made
for you before you drop that and decide who you're
going to be. And I said, I've made my choice.
And so when he called me, I don't know. I
don't know if I have enough time in this podcast
to explain to you all what this man means to
me as a brother and friend.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
I love love stories, and I love love stories in
all different formats, and I think it's so powerful and
wonderful for us to present a love story of black men.
I think that.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Is in any ways awkward.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yes, So you know, when he asked me, I always
tell I told this. I said, there's nothing you'll ask
me to do that I won't do, So be careful if.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
You tell me to show up.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Something's happened and we need to you know whatever, we
need to build a wall to cover the I'm showing up.
He means that much to me as a brother and friend.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
So when he says, hey.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
We're gonna go and do this, We're going or we're
gonna do it, I'm showing up because from a spiritual standpoint,
you know, I laid my life down for this man,
and I know he'd do it for me. So when
he called and asked me, you gave me the opportunity
to say, would you come and be in this film?
It was a I've never had to tell this brother, No,
it's my brother, I said, you know as much. I
(21:38):
remember where I was. You were in costume me and
you were right next to Sharon. I remember like it
was yesterday. I was in New York City, I was
in I think that I was in downtown. I forget
the name of the hotel, and I remember my heart
hurting because I had to stand on my you know,
to my best friend. I said that, I told myself, brother,
the next skin I live in will be that turner.
(21:58):
I will never work again, and if it's the last
movie I do, I will know that I've done the
thing that God has called me here to do, and
he never questioned it again. He was like, okay, and
you know, we pray a lot. And you know, I
think the core of our you know, our love story
as brothers is our faith. It's not our careers, and
(22:21):
it's not even first our people, you know, because I
think that the faith element has just been lost in
many ways. We pray a lot together. I think that
that has been the thing, the common thread through how
we see the world as brothers, how we see our
purpose as artists, how we see ourselves as fathers to
our children, how we see ourselves as entertainers in public spaces.
(22:44):
It all goes back down to, you know, what have
we been called to do? And will we be obedient
to that thing.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But the thing that also made it easier for me
to accept the know from Nate is that, you know,
in two thousand and seven, not long after I had
moved to the States, the script for Selma hit the
doormat and I was in a time of praying and
fasting at the time, and I very clearly heard the
(23:10):
Lord tell me you are going to play doctor King
in this film. I wrote it in my prayer diary
on that day because it was such a bizarre notion.
I had not played anything akin to this before. I
was a British actor newly moved to the States, in
an apartment in Studio City in La This was a
(23:32):
crazy notion, but I do know the voice of God
and I ended up auditioning at that time for the film.
The feedback from the director at that time was David
o'yellowo is not Doctor King. That was the feedback I gotten.
I thought, oh, maybe I didn't hear God as I
thought I did, so I let that slide. Three years
(23:56):
went by and it was a phone call from Nate.
He called me up and said, have you heard of
this film?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Selma? Uh, They're they're auditioning.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Uh guy, guys for you know.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I've been asked to audition and and he he, I said,
I really think you should go up for this.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I was like, I know that film, and.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I don't even know if I said to you on
the phone that God told me I was gonna.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna jump in and tell
a part of the story as well. So and I'd
love for you, David after to kind of come behind
with kind of the crisis we're dealing with in our
industry when it comes to there can only be one
because we've really bonded on this idea that what is
for us is for us, you know. So I was
talking to the den who had the control of the
(24:43):
rights the director, and he had reached out through someone
to me, and so we were in this back and
forth about like the early stages of you know, the
story and how this person.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Wanted to tell the story.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
But I remembered that, you know, in our conversation had
it come up, and I said, do you know David
or Yellowell? And I can remember him just kind of
pausing because rarely will someone be talking about a role
and ask him if they know someone else.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But it was just on my.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Spere, do you know David Dover yellow He's an extraordinary brother.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
You should meet him.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
And so I've reached out to David and I said, hey,
you know, we talked about doctor King and you were like, yeah,
it was just this weird and I said, they're you know,
they're having it and it wasn't wide auditions. It wasn't
like they're seeing everyone, and so David needs to get
in line. It was very, very selective auditions and for
what I'd understand, it only been like a couple of people.
(25:37):
And I said, you really should meet David and called
David and connected them. Wow, and I guess you can
speak on the story, not me that.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
But when you.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
When I finally got the meeting, he sent me a
book called nineteen sixty five Selma and it's just you know,
just research for for the audition. I'm emotional about it
because I've never experienced anything like this before or since.
(26:10):
When you are from a community that is rooted in scarcity.
Nate talked about programming. You are programmed to self survive,
to hold on to your piece of the pie, to
(26:32):
crabs in a barrel, the whole situation.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
So for him to reach.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Out to me in that way at that time was
truly profound and exemplary for me. And to cut a
very long story short, I obviously went on to get
the role, but I will never forget the fact that
(26:57):
something that I felt the Lord Ha told me I
would do came back around through a friend saying, Wow,
you must go up for this, and him recommending me
like this is a brilliant actor. You know, anyone who
sees him as an turner in Birth of a Nation.
I remember him inviting me to a screening of the film.
(27:19):
I saw the film, and I had to go and
see it again the very next day because I couldn't
quite understand not only the profundity of what I had
just seen, but how he had pulled it off. He
had written it, he had produced it, he had directed it,
and he was starring in it. And the performance in
and of itself was that extraordinary, let alone all these
(27:40):
other hats he was wearing doing it. So this isn't
like a guy who's like, oh, I don't think I
could play doctor again.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You you know, this is not that.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
This is just someone who that's his heart.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And that's why I go back to what I said
earlier about we not me, And so you know, that
was just such a profound moment that led on to
what has been the profound moments in my career thus far.
So when I called him and said, do you want
to come be part of anyone? I have to go
(28:14):
do this thing, I understood what that is because someone
was that for me and I wanted to support him
in that.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I felt some kind of way for a second, but.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But you know, considering what he had already done for me.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I knew the spirit from which.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
He was operating in and that that of you know,
and that has been I think. I think great relationships,
great love stories, have these these cornerstone moments, and then
that was just a massive cornerstone moment for us.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
You're listening to My Legacy, Stay tuned as we dive
even deeper with David and Nadan too this inspiring journey
and friendship. We're back with David oh Yello and his
(29:19):
best friend Nate Parker on the My Legacy podcast.
Speaker 7 (29:24):
In line of the fact that you've known David for
over a decade, certainly as a friend and a creative partner,
how do you see his upbringing influencing him.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
David very much recognizes he is a part of a
tapestry or a blanket that only exists as a sum
of its parts. If you've ever if anyone has ever
had the opportunity to see David in the presence of
his mother or in the presence of his father, they
(29:58):
will know exactly the type of stuff he's made of.
The integrity, the love, the care, the compassion. He is,
in my opinion, the definition of a man from what
from every example for better and words that I've had
(30:20):
as a measuring stick growing up in this skin. So
I think his upbringing, I would say, is less about
the lessons learned in this way, but more about his
understanding of how he fits within the clay of the Yellow,
(30:42):
a yellow old clan. And that is something I have
really taken into my family.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I want my family to know how I see us
from a thirty thousand foot view, how I see us
thirty thousand years from now, and how I feel about
us being the origin story of the world as black
people all those years ago. I don't think we have
the luxury to walk through life with each one teach
(31:09):
one perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
We just don't.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
We matter in different ways as your father continues to matter.
On what would have been his one hundredth birthday, I'm
not sure we're celebrating him just because he was bold
enough to do the things that he did. I think
we're celebrating him because he was obedient enough to challenge
constructs that are forever changed. And I see that in David,
(31:36):
and it's only ironic because he played the man who
lived it in a different way. But who else but
David as someone who lives that even separate in his
own legacy. So I think it's something that is inspiring.
And I, you know, I often call myself as me
(31:56):
as little brother, he calls me. You know, we don't
say that often because we don't really allude to hierarchy.
But the reality is he's a little older, a little wiser,
and I call him about things that are sometimes even smaller.
You know, I'm changing the living room.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
What should I.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Because I respect his process. He is someone who consults
God before he consults his ego, you know, And I
don't say I say that to say it's God then
everything else. That's how he shows up as a father,
That's how he shows up as a friend, That's how
he shows up as a colleague. You can best believe
what you get from this man is going to be
(32:33):
rooted in prayer rather than in some type of selfish direction.
And you can't say that about everyone. And I know
it's hard for him. He's probably squirming as I continue,
but I think it needs to be said. You know,
as we talk about what does it take for a
man to be able to publicly say I love this man,
I give my life for him, and it not be
(32:54):
a diety, not be God or not be I think
it's seeing in that person qualities that you hope your
children's children have, and so, you know, I think that's
the that's the highest quality of a compliment I can
give to a person. And I don't know if I've
said this, you know, in this type of setting, I'm
very private, you know, as David will tell you. But
when he says will you please show up? I say, brother,
(33:17):
I'm here.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
So this time this is something else, like another movie after.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
I'm very curious. What was the most intimidating part of
taking on the role of Martin Luther King Jr.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
How long do you have?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I mean, the estimation in which he is held by
so many was the thing that was so intimidating. And
because at the end of the day, I don't care
who you are. I don't think anyone in their right
mind feels worthy.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Of playing doctor King.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
All I knew is that I had to do as
much work as humanly possible, and my prayer was that
God and your Father would flow through me in a
way that I couldn't control. So the most difficult thing
(34:16):
about playing your Father was trusting that that would happen,
because when he was giving those speeches, anyone who has
eyes to see will know he is moving in an
anointing that is otherworldly.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It is not just.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Intellectual or cerebral. He is speaking into time immemorial. The
speeches are timeless, the spirit from which he's talking is timeless.
I literally was at lunch with someone yesterday who was
talking about listening to a speech of your father's, and
(34:56):
he started crying. And there is a profundity to those words.
That means it's not about acting, it's about being an
instrument of service. So this wasn't like an acting exercise.
It was like a channeling thing, and you were.
Speaker 8 (35:11):
In character for like three months. If I'm not mistaken
it or maybe you can help explain that to our audience, like,
how did you channel that for such a long period
of time.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Well, there were practical reasons and there were spiritual reasons
for that. The practical reasons is that we're shooting in Atlanta,
which is where he is from. I'm giving speeches to
people who had marched with him, who had heard his sermons,
who knew him personally.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
If I walked in with this accent saying Hello, I'm David.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
I'm going to be playing Doctor King.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I mean, like instantaneously, the confidence levels of everyone around us,
it goes way down. So I felt I had to
stay not only in the accent, but in the sort
of hemisphere of him for the shoot.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
But like, this thing I'm.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Talking about was very real for me, Like when I
watched the film. Now we're literally about to celebrate the
tenth anniversary of the film, and I've seen the film
of you know, MLK Day. The film comes on and
I watch it, and I don't recognize myself because I
I can see that something was was was being channeled
through me. That is is not something I'm walking in
(36:17):
right now. But you know, it was tricky from my wife.
She you know, we were we moved house at the time,
and I remember once her calling me about which color
curtains we should have, and.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
What did Doctor King say.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Doctor King is on the phone talking about whether they
should be gray or brown, and she was like, okay,
just stop, stop, stop.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I cannot be talking curtains with Doctor King.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
We're gonna We're gonna pick this up after the shoots,
you know. But but it was it was the price
of playing that role. And I was fortunate enough to
be in Lincoln that Daniel d Lewis played Abraham Lincoln.
And I was fortunate enough to be in the film
Asking of Scotland, where Forrest Whitzaker played idiot I mean,
and I watched those two gentlemen pay the price for
(37:07):
playing those kind of roles. And it's not just an act.
You got to stay in it. And I got my
lesson of how to do this by watching them, through prayer,
through just being in Atlanta, being in that hemisphere. It
was a truly profound experience. And I know I will
not get to do anything like that ever.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Again.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
What was the greatest piece of advice that anyone might
have given you that you felt this is the most
appropriate piece of advice that I embraced so that I
could personify what I was attempting to do.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
The thing that It wasn't a piece of advice. It
was a piece of footage I saw, and I only
saw it once. So much of the footage of your
father is him giving speeches or being interviewed by the press.
The camera is on, and so therefore to a certain extent,
(38:03):
he is on. There was one piece of footage I
only saw it once and I could never find it again.
It was him in a corridor. The camera is coming
towards him, and he stood there on his own, and
he doesn't know the camera is on yet, the camera
(38:26):
is moving towards him, and his demeanor was so different
from what I saw in speeches and press interviews. He
was entirely human. And I know that sounds like an
odd thing to say, but he just seemed like a
(38:48):
human being as opposed to an icon or a hero
or all of those things that we have transposed onto
him or that he stepped into when he was giving
speeches or talking to the press or meeting people, whether
it be the sanitary workers or whatever it was. And
I saw a man who he hit. His head was down,
(39:12):
he was being thoughtful, he was sort of swaying a
little bit. The camera was moving towards him, and then
suddenly a light came on in order for him to
be more visible, and I saw him click into something
in order to present something to the camera. And we
all do that, We all do that, And in that moment,
(39:34):
I got what I needed to be able to show
the man behind the iconography, the man who was reluctant
at times to lead the man who when I spoke
to several people, the fact that you and your siblings
and your mother's lives were at threat every single day
(39:57):
of his service, those thirteen years of his service, meant
that when he was away from you, guys, your lives
were under threat, and he, as a father, had to
carry that. So when the camera isn't on, that's what
he's thinking about. The price on the ones I love
the most is incredibly high. And so it wasn't a
(40:21):
piece of advice. It was that piece of footage because
at the end of the day, if I just was
good at the speeches or good at what people had
already seen, that's not revelatory.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Of who he was.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You have to be seeing something of the human being.
Otherwise go watch a documentary. And so that was a
real gift to me. And it was literally a few
seconds of footage I only saw once and never again.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
And I think that's the price, which we don't talk
about that often. That not only for Martin and his
siblings and his mother, but even when I even think
about to our daughter, right because our daughter is the
only grandchild of Martin Luther King Junior and Coreta Scott King,
and you know we grew up, you know, well when
(41:08):
we grew up and there wasn't grandparents Day. You know,
now when our children grow, you know's grandparents Day at
school and all day you know, all the grandparents come
out if you're you know, and the fact that her
grandfather was never there, so even she understands the price
that was paid. You know, she there is when we
(41:29):
go to the King Memorial, there's this nook and when
she was really little, she would always want to climb
and sit on this nook. And I thought it was, oh,
that's just a cute picture, but she said, she's like,
this is the closest that I ever have to sit
in my grandfather's lap. And it was at that moment,
(41:49):
you know, at eight, that I realized that even for her,
that there was that you know, that there was an
aching and that you know, the price that was paid
that even through generations, we still feel. And I'm really
curious though, because when you're playing someone like Martin Luther
King Jr. There are you know, there's you know, recordings
(42:10):
and footage and video and speeches. You didn't have that
with Nat Turner, So how did you conjure up without
any of that embody in such a significant and powerful way.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
It's a really great question. And you asked the question
a little while ago that we didn't get to about faith.
And it's not lost on me or you that we
both has happened to play men who are preachers. Nat Turner,
in my opinion, with someone who was seeking to hold
(42:46):
not just those around him accountable who were responsible for
his circumstance, but God to his word that was written.
And so I approached it from the standpoint of, you know,
if God's word is true, if we have been positioned
(43:06):
here as those who are the image of God, then
how are we being treated as chattel? You know some
of the things in the film that people don't recognize
as often as you know, Not Turner prayed for signs
and saw signs. You know on record he prayed said,
you know, if I am to stand against this, I
(43:30):
mean we were able to get the couple things happened
from that film. We were able to get the Bible
that he held in his hand, he kept in his
pocket as he fought put in the Smithsonian. We were
able to get his only remains, his skull, which was
sawed at the top with the inscription of the people
who cut his head off because they wanted to examine
(43:51):
his brain for the disease that made him rebel. It
was sitting on a professor's bookshelf at a college that
I'm not going to name, and we were able to
work with National Geographic get that back, get it to
the family, and they were able to lay his remains
to rest. So the approach, as you said, I didn't
have anything other than you know where he marked in
(44:13):
the Bible in Revelation, you know, cutting the head from
the serpent. You know, like, at some point, if God
is who he says he is, and we are who
we say we are, we need to move without fear.
And that is the thing when we talk about the
legacy of doctor King, even in the space as we're
talking about that human moment, thinking about his family, he
did it anyway. And that's the thing that I still
(44:36):
grapple with. To walk into sure death, sure pain, to
leave your grandchildren without a grandfather, to know that that
will be your demise, and to do it anyway is
something that all of us don't.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Have in us.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
I'm an actor, you know, I have five daughters. I'm
not sure I'm walking out the door down there to
the left. I know walking out there will separate me
from my family while at the same time liberating people
that I won't be here to see liberated. Call me selfish,
but these men were really courageous. So I tried to
take the approach of what the sacrifice in the name
(45:15):
of God was rather than the kind of the details
of Innitia that I did not know. And I think
that is the thing that guided me, and that was
the thing that made it very difficult, you know, on
the days in between action and cut was the stakes.
You know, I don't know if you want to speak
to that, but there's the fear that you're all constantly
beating back. If I do this wrong, then that is
(45:37):
the thing that is studied forever.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
And also just the recognition. The thing I came away
from playing your father was object indisputable recognition that I.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I am not made of what he was made of. Yeh.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
To Nate's point, know that I have four kids like
he did, and I just in fact, I'm not going
to say I don't know. I know I am not
made of the same stuff. That would mean that for
over a decade I would knowingly, intentionally, willfully, obediently step
(46:26):
into circumstances that would jeopardize their safety every single day.
I couldn't do it, and so that's why what he
did was so incredibly heroic. And the thing that I
found so moving was that it wasn't of his choosing.
(46:47):
He didn't run towards this. He had those dark knights
of the soul of why me. I don't want to
do this anymore. I don't feel up to this. I
don't want to do this. I am tired of this.
And that's stuff that people don't know, maybe don't even
(47:08):
want to know, because we want our heroes to be perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And he was, of course.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
A human being who would have you caught him on
the right day, he would say, No, I don't want
to much. I don't want to give that press conference.
I don't want to give that speech. I just want
to be back with my family, or I just want
to rest. I've been on the road for twenty nine
days of this month so far, and I've given speeches.
(47:34):
I've given of myself for twenty nine days straight with
no rest, and I just heard that the next place
I'm going to give a speech, there's a real chance
that I'm going to be assassinated. And I'm talking about
(47:56):
real circumstances. I'm not making that up. This is my
research that all that stuff out. So there is a
sort of you know, these men we've been afforded the
opportunity to play. I think that the reason why Nate
fought as hard as he did to get the story told,
the reason why I just I felt called to every
(48:18):
single day I had to do something to move the
needle towards that film being made, because it was unacceptable
to me that the only American not African American, the
only American to have a day named after them in
the twentieth century, had not yet had a film made
about them. Remember what I said earlier, when I first
(48:41):
read the script of Some in two thousand and seven,
Lyndon Johnson was the protagonist, Doctor King was a supporting character,
you know, And that film went through in the seven
years before we got it made. When I first read it,
it was a white male director, then another white male director,
then an African American male director, then an African American
male director. Then it was Ava Duverna who came along,
(49:04):
and finally truly recalibrated it to what it always needed
to be, which was not only the man and the movement,
but the women who also supported that want something done. Exactly,
the first black woman exactly on script. I read your
mother was featured in three phone calls, none of which
(49:26):
had Doctor King and your mother in the same room
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
By the time it.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Was in Ava DuVernay's hands, you not only had a
role that was worthy of a Carmen a Jogo who
played your mother, but roles that were worthy of Oprah Winfrey,
Nissi Nash, Tessa Thompson, Lorraine Toussaint, you know the the
And that's to do with perspective.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
And that's the power of what we do.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
We can bring a perspective that is flies in the
face of the marginalization that has created the circumstances that
caused challenge for the heroes that we are trying to platform.
And even in those seven years of me trying to
get that film made alongside the folks that Plan b
(50:14):
and Pathay, there was resistance to it being told in
the right way. The reason why it took five directors
over those seven years, all of who to a certain
degree failed to get it made is because of the
notion black doesn't travel. The white audience don't want to
be made to feel guilty. Black people don't want to
feel black pain. All of these narratives that meant that
(50:36):
the truth, yet again wouldn't be told was what we
had to fight against. Let alone get to the set
and actually play the role to the degree whereby you
feel like, oh, gosh, I actually did my job. So
you know, these resistances are not imagined what your father
was pushing up against to a way lesser degree, we
(50:59):
have those resistances in getting these movies made.
Speaker 6 (51:03):
Grab a refill in your coffee or tea because you
won't want to miss the rest of this conversation. We'll
be right back. You're listening to my Legacy podcast. Thanks
(51:32):
for sharing your time with us.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Now, the two of you have launched a new platform,
MANSA Correct Yes, to continue to uplift the voices of
black and brown storytellers and stories. Can you just tell
us a little bit about about that.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
Yeah, I'm gonna give it to David as he You know,
I think it's a great transition from you talking about,
you know, the growth and transition of the script into
the hands of the very capable and amazing Avid de
Verney and why that's important to what we're doing with MANSA.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, I mean we faced challenges not just on those
films we made, but the work we've done generally. I mean,
we met doing Red Tails together. And George Lucas had
an obsession about telling the story of the Tuskegee Airmen.
He actually said their airplane battles were the inspiration of
what you see in Star Wars.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
And he was.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Obsessed with with, you know, World War two and planes, And.
Speaker 5 (52:32):
I just have to say, can we also say that
that was done too with they did not have the
best equipment, Oh yeah, you know, like they were not
invested in no, you know, and then they took all
of that, yeah, and then became the best of the
best and most of the war and won the war.
Came back to more discrimination, but you know, and then
(52:53):
you know, forty years later, you know, Star Wars was
patterned after the battles of the time era.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Their dogfights literally inspired George Lucas in terms of what you.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
See in Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
He's and that's verbatim from his mouth to our ears.
But as you say, they were marginalized, and that time
in which they were sidelined and benched, they continued to
forge their prowess in terms of what they did, and
out of desperation because of how many planes were being
(53:29):
hemorrhaged by the US forces. Out of desperation, they deployed
the Tusky Geemen and the Redtails, and they had a
better record than any squadron that came before them. But
that story, George Lucas, couldn't get made for thirty years.
This is the guy who instigated, initiated, created the greatest
(53:52):
film franchise in the history of cinema. You'd think if
there was anyone who's going to be able to tell
that story, it would be him. He couldn't get a
single studio to do it. He paid fifty million dollars
of his own money to make that film because no
studio would make it. And he said very explicitly to us,
(54:14):
no one was gonna make it with a group of black,
unknown actors, which it had to be because the Tuskegee
airmen were in their twenties. There were young men, so
it can't be as amazing as they are. It couldn't
be Morgan Freeman and Denzel and you know all the
people who have had time to establish a name for themselves,
so it had to be this group of young actors,
(54:35):
and so he had to pay the money himself. So
I say that all to say that that's the context
in which Nate and I met someone like George Lucas
advocating for us, giving us a platform to tell this
kind of story. And even when the film was made,
he still couldn't get a studio to distribute it. So
he had to go to the studio that did distribute
(54:57):
it essentially use their mechanism to do.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Him a favor to distribute the movie.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Now, the amount of people who come up to me
about that film since it came out and to say
it's their favorite film, or it was the first time
they knew about the Tuskegee m and all of that stuff.
So cut to over a decade later, we are by
products of that man's advocacy for us, and so we
have seen that it can. The thing that we don't
(55:28):
have is pipes. We make great product we make great projects,
but what we have never had is the means to
disseminate it. The thing that was genius about your father
with selma Is. He knew that it wasn't just about
a march, it wasn't just about a speech.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
It was about the cameras.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
The cameras need to be there to capture the truth
of what was happening. And on the night where John
Lewis was being beaten over the head in Selma, a
live broadcast was disrupted and all of America saw what
looked like, as they termed it, a war zone in
(56:16):
a foreign country, and then all of a sudden they
found out that was here in America, and it changed
the narrative. What we have never had is the means
to direct the eyeballs to the things that we create,
and so MANSA is a byproduct of a technical revolution,
(56:41):
which is that we didn't have to build a brick
and mortar studio. We raised enough money to be able
to create a digital one. That means we now have
over half a million subscribers to our platform, which is
going to grow, which is going to become global, and
we now have a place for margined groups whose work
(57:02):
is traditionally undervalued, to meet the audience in a way
that isn't being funneled through the eyeballs of people who
traditionally deem that work and those people to be lesser than.
Speaker 4 (57:14):
Is often said content is king, But what we've learned
is distribution is king and kingmaker. You can make anything
you want to make, but if you have to then
go and take it to the very people who told
you you were not good enough. It is not good enough,
the story is not important enough. The chances are it
is not going to find the audience it was intended for.
So in building this platform. Mons and Mons is an
(57:37):
advertising supported streaming platform that brings the best of black
culture to a global audience. So we recognize if we're writers.
David is a writer, director, producer, actor, catering person if
he has to be whatever is necessary to get it done.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
But once that thing is made.
Speaker 4 (57:55):
He made an extraordinary film called The Waterman and was
in a situation and where and I've seen the film.
If you haven't seen it, please see the film. I
mean it was the critics loved it. It was called SPIELBERGI
and all of a sudden it was well, there are
all these reasons why it might not be able to
find an audience until you see the data. And it
was one of the most distributed watched films globally, yet
(58:18):
we had no control over getting this cup to the
people that want to drink from it. So in building manset,
it's about saying, in the same way that there is
a two B, in the same way that there's a Pluto,
in the same way that there's a Netflix, we need
to control the pipes that control the content we create.
When I say we, I mean anyone that understands the
importance of black culture because black culture drives world culture,
(58:40):
and being able to control how that gets to the
hearts and the minds of the people it needs to impact.
So if someone wanted to make a documentary about your
life or your relationship or your granddaughter, because I'm still
seeing her in that nook, that's important to my daughters
to know the importance that she saw. I want to
be close to my grandfather, though I'll never get to me.
(59:01):
If my eight year old could hear that I know her,
I know her heart, she'd be impacted by it. We
could say okay, or a podcast where we can say
we can get this podcast or the hearts and minds
of the people that need to see it without having
to beg Anyone that is opposed the idea of us
reaching the people that are for us. We don't have
to ask permission. We can take it directly to their eyeballs.
(59:21):
So that was what mons us about. It's a streaming platform.
You can download it now on iOS, Roku wherever. But
the future is about access to the people who are
looking for you, and so all of the content creators,
all the people because sometimes that the new social justice leaders,
a lot of them are content creators, you know, a
lot of them didn't come up in the church, and
(59:43):
they have different ways of interacting with millions of people
who follow them. So to give them a platform where
they can have a constant flow distributing their ideas in
ways that enhance the lives of us, our children, and
our children's children is the focus of our platform and
why we created it.
Speaker 5 (01:00:00):
And we're just getting started with David o'yelowo and Nate Parker.
Their story was too powerful and too important for this
moment to fit into a single episode. Next week we
go even deeper into the kind of friendship that's tested
in life's darkest moments when the world turns its back.
Who stands by you when everything is on the line,
(01:00:20):
Who fights for you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
When he talks about us having prayed together, We have snotty, dribbling, screaming,
wailing prayed together over this stuff because it was hard.
Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
Trust me, you don't want to miss part two next week.
Thank you for joining us. We are so grateful to
have you as part of this journey. If you enjoyed
today's conversation, subscribe and share the podcast with friends, family,
and loved ones, and follow us on social media at
my Legacy Movement. You can also sipp ksribe to our
(01:01:01):
YouTube channel at my Legacy Movement. Produced by Legacy Plus
Studio in partnership with iHeartRadio creator and executive producer Suzanne
Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. My Legacy podcast is
available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Until next time, may you find connection and inspiration to
(01:01:24):
live your most fulfilled life.
The feedback from the director at that time was David o'
yellowell is not Doctor King. Three years went by and
it was a phone call from Nate.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Have you heard of this film, Selma.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I've been asked to audition, and I really think you
should go up for.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
This the director and he had reached out through someone
to me and I said, do you know David o' yellowell.
I can remember him just kind of pausing, because rarely
will someone be talking about a role and ask him
if they know someone else, And I said, you really
should be David.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
When I finally got the meeting, he sent me a
book called nineteen sixty five, Selma, just research for the audition.
I'm emotional about it because I've never experienced anything like
this before.
Speaker 5 (00:49):
Since Hella Loves I'm Andrea Waters King. That was David o'
yellowell reflecting on a pivotal moment in his journey to
playing Doctor King, a moment shaped by the unwavering support
of his best friend Nate Parker. And today, during Black
History Month, David and Nate's story of brotherhood, faith, and
breaking barriers takes on even greater meeting. It's about the
(01:12):
power of standing together in a world that too often divides,
because legacy isn't just what we accomplish, it's the people
we lived up along the way. This is My Legacy,
a podcast hosted by me and my husband, Martin Luther King,
the oldest son of doctor Martin Luther King Junior and
Coretta Scott King. Together we're caring forward their iconic legacy
(01:35):
of equality, peace and justice. Plus we're joined by our
good friends New York Times bestselling authors Mark and Craig Kilberger.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Let's begin.
Speaker 6 (01:45):
Welcome to My Legacy Podcast, where we help you create
a living legacy and live a fulfilled life. One of
the things that makes this podcast special is that we
don't just meet extraordinary individuals. We meet the people who
know them best. These are the ones who shared their
high There are loads and everything in between, giving us
deeper insight and understanding into what truly shapes who they
(02:06):
are and the legacy they want to create. David o' yellow,
you brought someone remarkable with you here today, Nate Parker.
Would you do us the honor of introducing him to
our audience and who he is in your life?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes, Nate is my best friend in the world. We
met over a decade ago doing a film called Red
Tales Together, and I found in him a kindred spirit,
not just as as an actor and an artist, but
also as an advocate for others, as someone who is
(02:39):
deeply invested in community. I learnt the phrase we not
me from him, and that's something he absolutely lives by.
He has five kids. I have four, so he's one
of the few people I know.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Who beats me.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
The way he really beats me is that he has
five daughters and I have three sons and a daughter.
And my gosh, the fact that my daughter has on
my heart. I just don't know how you manage it
with five daughters. He's just someone I deeply admire, has
been incredibly impactful in my life, and yeah, as I say,
(03:12):
one of my favorite people on the planet.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
We want to get to know both of you and
your relationship, but David, can we take a little bit
of a step back to get to know you better? Yeah,
you have a remarkable origin story, and I love the
fact that, if I'm not mistaken, your last name actually
means king. Yes, so I love that mister King and
mister King. But what impact does that have in your
(03:36):
sense of legacy when you can trace your roots to
your grandfather, who was a tribal Nigerian king.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, the full meaning of a yellow actually means a
king deserves respect and it's an extraordinary thing to be
born into a family. Where as you say, that is
the legacy, in fact, a very touching moment for me,
where you can take that for granted when it's something
you've had since you were born. But Nate came to
(04:06):
the memorial service of my mother when she had passed away,
and my cousins were there, who are more like uncles.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
They're quite a bit older.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Than me, and they were talking about the meaning of
not just our last name, but our.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Names in general.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
And Nate came up to me afterwards, very very emotional
and saying, I really was impacted by what we as
African Americans have lost in terms of our names, the
fact that our names are not necessarily steeped in the
(04:45):
history that or the likes of the history to which
you have our names are rooted in something more painful historically.
Like I say, I take my name for granted, but
there is something about the disposition you walk in knowing
that your grandfather was a king and I lived in
Nigeria from the age of six to thirteen, and I
(05:08):
lived in a society, in a culture, in a country
where I was part of the majority, not the minority,
and that had an enormous impact on me. When I
then returned to the UK age thirteen and now living
in America for the last seventeen years, something that happened
(05:29):
for me which was a real blessing. Between the age
of six and thirteen, when I lived in Nigeria, what
was eroded in me was a minority mentality, and that
meant that no matter the environment I go in, I
don't see myself as a minority, regardless of whether that
is one of the definitions that is attributed to me.
(05:51):
I walk in in the center of my own life.
I apply that to the stories I want to tell
and how I choose to live my life. And so
that was really formative for me. Only my name where
I'm from, but having a time of living there and
then being able to apply that, you know, as I
move forward in my life.
Speaker 5 (06:11):
Well, it's interesting because I can also see a connection
with that and with Martin's father because the name and
taking the power back of your name, because most people
don't know that Martin Luther King Junior was born Michael
Michael King, and that his father, his grandfather, was so
inspired by the German reformer Martin Luther, that well, I
(06:35):
don't want to tell your story, Honey.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
You're doing a good job.
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Can I keep that on loose?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (06:42):
My grandfather changed his name at about thirty maybe he
was thirty five and Dad was six or seven. So
he came back from Germany after an experience and seeing
the influence of Martin Luther, and he just came back
to Atlanta said I'm no longer Michael, I'm Martin Luther King,
(07:04):
a senior, and my son is going to be Martin
Luther King Jr. So you think about the fact that
all of that says something about who my grandfather was
and indirectly impacting who my father became. So Martin Luther
King Junior saw injustice like all of us did. But
(07:29):
he saw his father stand up against a system that
was in just and say we're not going to tolerate that.
And so it prepared Dad for in existence to constantly
challenge a system to become right. The system we all
knew was wrong. But what do you do about it?
You can choose an I want expecific example going into
(07:49):
a department store in the front door where everyone would
come to buy shoes, and Dad took his sons in,
and the clerks had looked, Reverend King, if you could
come in the back, we'll be happy to serve you.
My grandfather grabbed his sons and he said, if we
cannot buy shoes and come in and be treated with
dignity and respect, we will not shop here. And I'm
(08:12):
going to tell my three thousand members not to come here.
So Dad, seeing this at a young age was one
of the many examples that he saw that helped him
ultimately become a change maker.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
And you have to understand too, even more so like
the power of the Black Church. So you were the
minister of one of the largest congregations. You're not going
to refer to me this way anymore. This is who
I am, and all of you all must refer to
me now as Martin Luther. And not only that, you
know my son is now. Can you imagine going back
(08:44):
to school and telling his teachers I'm no longer Myael.
You know, you know I'm Martin Luther. You know just
that power. And I'm also curious what type of is
there are any childhood experiences from both of you all
that have really impacted legacy and how you view legacy
and what you all are sharing with your kids and
(09:05):
how you've moved.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Forward with that.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Well, you know, I would say the thing that has
been said here just now that really comes home to
me is you cannot be what you cannot see. And
you know, for your grandfather to decide that I recognize
my position in this community, and I am going to
(09:29):
redefine how I am seen based on the legacy of
someone else who is more in line with the legacy
I want to have, and then that goes on to
be the legacy of your dad and then you and
then we all know what that has meant for the world.
Tied to Martin Luther, the original who was the inspiration
(09:50):
for the change of the name, I think that in
and of itself really demonstrates not only the power of
a name, but the power of intention. A lot has
been done to try and break people by changing the
definition of who they are, whether it be their name
(10:12):
or racial epithets that are used, or just ways of
recalibrating how they should see themselves and the people who
do that know that there is power in doing that,
power in denigrating a people, whether it be how they
are referred to as a group or their names in particular.
And so to see your grandfather do that and for
(10:34):
it to go on to have such incredible impact, just
that change from Michael to Martin, there's not much difference
when you look at those names, but the origin of
the name, the reason for changing the name, and then
the legacy of the name. It goes to your spirit,
It goes to your mindset, and it gives you a
(10:58):
fuel and an engine that you towards wanting to ascend
to the power of that name. So that's why I
talk about you cannot be what you cannot see once
you've seen it, once you have been able to redefine
the nature of what it is you are here to do.
And what also I was so inspired by is your
grandfather talking about you will not have access to my
(11:20):
three thousand strong congregation if you do not choose to
refer to us or treat us in a rightful way.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That's power.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
So it's a recognition of who you are and the
power you actually have, and the combination of those two
things are incredibly impactful. And so to your question about
a childhood memory, you know, I go back to living
in a country for a time where every opportunity on
(11:50):
offer was mine for the taking, and how different that
is than when you then are living in a country where,
by definition, by example, in reality, and by perception, that
is not necessarily the case. And I call it the
Sydney Poitier syndrome. There is a reason why he had
(12:12):
the kind of outsized success here in America that even
today we as black actors, are trying to get to.
It's because he grew up in an environment as a
child that didn't have the same pressures as it pertains
to the redefinition of him. He grew up in the Bahamas.
(12:33):
He grew up in a place where he was part
of the majority, and so he also didn't have that
minority mentality. So by the time he came to America
and people were constantly trying to deny him opportunities, he
sort of had an attitude of I don't understand why
you do that. I'm going to continue to walk in
my truth. And that truth. You know, there's a saying
(12:54):
people treat your home the way you treat it he
treated himself the way he expected other people to treat him,
and that meant that doors opened for him differently, I think,
And so that childhood he had, I think helped him
move through the world in a certain way. Mine certainly
did as well.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Stay with us as David and Nate share more of
this powerful journey and inspiring friendship. We're back with David
(13:35):
oh Yelo and his best friend Nate Parker on the
My Legacy podcast.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
And so much of my friendship with Nate has been
really looking at who we are as men, as black men,
considering the platform we've been afforded. Not unlike your grandfather
with that three thousand congregation, we have an audience who
are invested.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
In the things we may.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You know, I fought seven years to get the privilege
to pay your play your father. I watched Nate fight
so hard to get the story of Nat Turner told.
And one of the extraordinary things that happen is I
desperately wanted him to be in Selma, and I remember
(14:22):
calling him up, and I think it was the part
of John Lewis that I was actually quite keen for
him to play. And he said, David, I've made a
vow to myself that I'm not going to be on
another set unless it is to make Birth of a Nation.
And even though we were best friends and I was
reaching out to him to say, look, come have a
(14:45):
good old time making this film with me, I deeply
admired his conviction to be like, no, this is one
of the things I've been put here on the planet
to do. And he stuck with it, and that was
I can't remember the years long. I know is many
years a long journey for that to come to fruition,
but that conviction is just so inspiring to me.
Speaker 8 (15:05):
Thank you tell us about that. And I know you're
asked about legacy and what that means to you in
terms of your childhood, but that was an incredible story.
How do you feel about hearing that and how do
you share that with our audience?
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Well, I'll try to speak speak to all of it.
I think we underestimate as a people programming language. I
have a you know, a computer technology background before I
became an artist. A lot of people don't know that
about me, but I remember having a professor and he said,
you know, a program will only do what it's coded
to do, no matter what you tell it to do,
(15:39):
it will only do what the code says. So if
a program didn't work and we came to it's not working,
so we'll check the code. But it's right. Well, if
it's right, then it will perform. It will execute, and
if it doesn't, there's something in the code. So we
think about our behavior as a people, specifically people who
are of the legacy, legacy of the enslaved in this
country so much, and this speaks to being brought up.
(15:59):
I was in Norfolk, Virginia, so so much of what
I desired to do with my life, what I wanted
to do, what how I deemed success as a man,
as a black man, as a as someone who was
you know, a part of my family name. Very little
of it, as I look now at forty five years old,
(16:20):
was healthy. You know where I come from. Your goal
is to get the money, no matter what, just don't
be poor. Escape, you know. So when you have an
entire community and their goals are set on escaping rather
than renovating or changing or improving, then problems will follow.
(16:42):
We're speaking from from you know, degradation, speaking from what
we've been told about ourselves. But it's a we're speaking
from teachers who tell us. I remember teacher sitting me
down saying you're gifted. You can get out of here,
literally looking in my eyes, telling me I could escape
from those around me if I just kept working hard enough.
(17:03):
And so all of a sudden, you look around identifying
your peers as problems, as people you do not want
to be around. So then when you escape, you celebrate
yourself as someone who escaped, and then you speak to
the fact that you've escaped. We hear it in all
the conversations I got out. I made it out. In
northern Virginia, there is no pro team, so there was
no aspiration to be a football player. There's no aspiration
(17:24):
to be a basketball player. You will either be in
the military and be in the naval shipyard, or you
will sell drugs, or you will in some other way
fall by the wayside or be in service forever. And
so my upbringing was not so different than many that
come from the South. So and I say that as
a contrast to being able to walk in the room
and say this is my room, we would walk into
(17:47):
the room and say, if only I can get away
from them, I may be able to shine in a
way that I could have a success where I could
have a position in this country that programming language without
being able to go to Germany in getting a new
line of code or somewhere else. You're kind of destined
(18:08):
to be to live at the ceiling that has been
designed for you. And it wasn't till even though I
went to college that I learned about that Turner, which
is why it became my obsession. Any room I came
into and they say, well, who's your hero before they
could finish, I'd say that Turner one, because I was
so inspired by the sacrifice, because I think that is
a theme that I'm sure we'll touch on. But also
(18:30):
I was so enraged by the fact that in all
of my schooling in Norfolk, Virginia, thirty five miles from
Southampton County, I never heard of the man only in whispers,
in ways that it was clipped before it could make
it all the way out of the mouth of the
person who's saying it. And that is problematic. So when
I left and learned, my goal was not to escape anymore,
(18:51):
but to come back with that story to remind people
that there was another side to that. There was someone
that said we will not tolerate this behavior. We were
put here by the God that we're looking up to,
who created the heavens and earth, that has a purpose
for us. That is not to be your mule, that
is not to be your animal. And so that became
my mission, which is why I switched very quickly away
(19:15):
from a computer. I didn't want to be an engineer.
I ended up being an actor because I said, you know,
I always asked. I asked David this, and I asked friends,
you know who has had more impact on medicine, Ben
Carson or you know a guy from Er.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (19:32):
The reality is more people went to medical school from
Mere than Ben Carson. Ben Carson is a genius. The
power of storytelling is so evident. But the storytelling is
just programming. We're teaching people how to be. If you
don't see it, you can't be it. So, you know,
to answer your question. Growing up in Virginia, the programming
(19:52):
language was very clear on what I would be able
to achieve. But it took me leaving. You know, college
was my Germany to get what I needed to do come
back and to change the people that were around me
and to change my mindset on the art of the possible.
When it came to came to people who look like
me now for natur for telling that story, I had
to make a decision, you know, Paul Robison said, the
artists much must decide whether he will fight for freedom
(20:14):
of bondage. I've made my decision, and it was so
inspiring to me that I said I need to. There's
there's only far, so far.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You can go.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Holding out in your hand what someone else has made
for you before you drop that and decide who you're
going to be. And I said, I've made my choice.
And so when he called me, I don't know. I
don't know if I have enough time in this podcast
to explain to you all what this man means to
me as a brother and friend.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
I love love stories, and I love love stories in
all different formats, and I think it's so powerful and
wonderful for us to present a love story of black men.
I think that.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Is in any ways awkward.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yes, So you know, when he asked me, I always
tell I told this. I said, there's nothing you'll ask
me to do that I won't do, So be careful if.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
You tell me to show up.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Something's happened and we need to you know whatever, we
need to build a wall to cover the I'm showing up.
He means that much to me as a brother and friend.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
So when he says, hey.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
We're gonna go and do this, We're going or we're
gonna do it, I'm showing up because from a spiritual standpoint,
you know, I laid my life down for this man,
and I know he'd do it for me. So when
he called and asked me, you gave me the opportunity
to say, would you come and be in this film?
It was a I've never had to tell this brother, No,
it's my brother, I said, you know as much. I
(21:38):
remember where I was. You were in costume me and
you were right next to Sharon. I remember like it
was yesterday. I was in New York City, I was
in I think that I was in downtown. I forget
the name of the hotel, and I remember my heart
hurting because I had to stand on my you know,
to my best friend. I said that, I told myself, brother,
the next skin I live in will be that turner.
(21:58):
I will never work again, and if it's the last
movie I do, I will know that I've done the
thing that God has called me here to do, and
he never questioned it again. He was like, okay, and
you know, we pray a lot. And you know, I
think the core of our you know, our love story
as brothers is our faith. It's not our careers, and
(22:21):
it's not even first our people, you know, because I
think that the faith element has just been lost in
many ways. We pray a lot together. I think that
that has been the thing, the common thread through how
we see the world as brothers, how we see our
purpose as artists, how we see ourselves as fathers to
our children, how we see ourselves as entertainers in public spaces.
(22:44):
It all goes back down to, you know, what have
we been called to do? And will we be obedient
to that thing.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
But the thing that also made it easier for me
to accept the know from Nate is that, you know,
in two thousand and seven, not long after I had
moved to the States, the script for Selma hit the
doormat and I was in a time of praying and
fasting at the time, and I very clearly heard the
(23:10):
Lord tell me you are going to play doctor King
in this film. I wrote it in my prayer diary
on that day because it was such a bizarre notion.
I had not played anything akin to this before. I
was a British actor newly moved to the States, in
an apartment in Studio City in La This was a
(23:32):
crazy notion, but I do know the voice of God
and I ended up auditioning at that time for the film.
The feedback from the director at that time was David
o'yellowo is not Doctor King. That was the feedback I gotten.
I thought, oh, maybe I didn't hear God as I
thought I did, so I let that slide. Three years
(23:56):
went by and it was a phone call from Nate.
He called me up and said, have you heard of
this film?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Selma? Uh, They're they're auditioning.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Uh guy, guys for you know.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I've been asked to audition and and he he, I said,
I really think you should go up for this.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I was like, I know that film, and.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I don't even know if I said to you on
the phone that God told me I was gonna.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna jump in and tell
a part of the story as well. So and I'd
love for you, David after to kind of come behind
with kind of the crisis we're dealing with in our
industry when it comes to there can only be one
because we've really bonded on this idea that what is
for us is for us, you know. So I was
talking to the den who had the control of the
(24:43):
rights the director, and he had reached out through someone
to me, and so we were in this back and
forth about like the early stages of you know, the
story and how this person.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Wanted to tell the story.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
But I remembered that, you know, in our conversation had
it come up, and I said, do you know David
or Yellowell? And I can remember him just kind of
pausing because rarely will someone be talking about a role
and ask him if they know someone else.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But it was just on my.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
Spere, do you know David Dover yellow He's an extraordinary brother.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
You should meet him.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
And so I've reached out to David and I said, hey,
you know, we talked about doctor King and you were like, yeah,
it was just this weird and I said, they're you know,
they're having it and it wasn't wide auditions. It wasn't
like they're seeing everyone, and so David needs to get
in line. It was very, very selective auditions and for
what I'd understand, it only been like a couple of people.
(25:37):
And I said, you really should meet David and called
David and connected them. Wow, and I guess you can
speak on the story, not me that.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
But when you.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
When I finally got the meeting, he sent me a
book called nineteen sixty five Selma and it's just you know,
just research for for the audition. I'm emotional about it
because I've never experienced anything like this before or since.
(26:10):
When you are from a community that is rooted in scarcity.
Nate talked about programming. You are programmed to self survive,
to hold on to your piece of the pie, to
(26:32):
crabs in a barrel, the whole situation.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
So for him to reach.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Out to me in that way at that time was
truly profound and exemplary for me. And to cut a
very long story short, I obviously went on to get
the role, but I will never forget the fact that
(26:57):
something that I felt the Lord Ha told me I
would do came back around through a friend saying, Wow,
you must go up for this, and him recommending me
like this is a brilliant actor. You know, anyone who
sees him as an turner in Birth of a Nation.
I remember him inviting me to a screening of the film.
(27:19):
I saw the film, and I had to go and
see it again the very next day because I couldn't
quite understand not only the profundity of what I had
just seen, but how he had pulled it off. He
had written it, he had produced it, he had directed it,
and he was starring in it. And the performance in
and of itself was that extraordinary, let alone all these
(27:40):
other hats he was wearing doing it. So this isn't
like a guy who's like, oh, I don't think I
could play doctor again.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You you know, this is not that.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
This is just someone who that's his heart.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And that's why I go back to what I said
earlier about we not me, And so you know, that
was just such a profound moment that led on to
what has been the profound moments in my career thus far.
So when I called him and said, do you want
to come be part of anyone? I have to go
(28:14):
do this thing, I understood what that is because someone
was that for me and I wanted to support him
in that.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I felt some kind of way for a second, but.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But you know, considering what he had already done for me.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I knew the spirit from which.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
He was operating in and that that of you know,
and that has been I think. I think great relationships,
great love stories, have these these cornerstone moments, and then
that was just a massive cornerstone moment for us.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
You're listening to My Legacy, Stay tuned as we dive
even deeper with David and Nadan too this inspiring journey
and friendship. We're back with David oh Yello and his
(29:19):
best friend Nate Parker on the My Legacy podcast.
Speaker 7 (29:24):
In line of the fact that you've known David for
over a decade, certainly as a friend and a creative partner,
how do you see his upbringing influencing him.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
David very much recognizes he is a part of a
tapestry or a blanket that only exists as a sum
of its parts. If you've ever if anyone has ever
had the opportunity to see David in the presence of
his mother or in the presence of his father, they
(29:58):
will know exactly the type of stuff he's made of.
The integrity, the love, the care, the compassion. He is,
in my opinion, the definition of a man from what
from every example for better and words that I've had
(30:20):
as a measuring stick growing up in this skin. So
I think his upbringing, I would say, is less about
the lessons learned in this way, but more about his
understanding of how he fits within the clay of the Yellow,
(30:42):
a yellow old clan. And that is something I have
really taken into my family.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I want my family to know how I see us
from a thirty thousand foot view, how I see us
thirty thousand years from now, and how I feel about
us being the origin story of the world as black
people all those years ago. I don't think we have
the luxury to walk through life with each one teach
(31:09):
one perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
We just don't.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
We matter in different ways as your father continues to matter.
On what would have been his one hundredth birthday, I'm
not sure we're celebrating him just because he was bold
enough to do the things that he did. I think
we're celebrating him because he was obedient enough to challenge
constructs that are forever changed. And I see that in David,
(31:36):
and it's only ironic because he played the man who
lived it in a different way. But who else but
David as someone who lives that even separate in his
own legacy. So I think it's something that is inspiring.
And I, you know, I often call myself as me
(31:56):
as little brother, he calls me. You know, we don't
say that often because we don't really allude to hierarchy.
But the reality is he's a little older, a little wiser,
and I call him about things that are sometimes even smaller.
You know, I'm changing the living room.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
What should I.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Because I respect his process. He is someone who consults
God before he consults his ego, you know, And I
don't say I say that to say it's God then
everything else. That's how he shows up as a father,
That's how he shows up as a friend, That's how
he shows up as a colleague. You can best believe
what you get from this man is going to be
(32:33):
rooted in prayer rather than in some type of selfish direction.
And you can't say that about everyone. And I know
it's hard for him. He's probably squirming as I continue,
but I think it needs to be said. You know,
as we talk about what does it take for a
man to be able to publicly say I love this man,
I give my life for him, and it not be
(32:54):
a diety, not be God or not be I think
it's seeing in that person qualities that you hope your
children's children have, and so, you know, I think that's
the that's the highest quality of a compliment I can
give to a person. And I don't know if I've
said this, you know, in this type of setting, I'm
very private, you know, as David will tell you. But
when he says will you please show up? I say, brother,
(33:17):
I'm here.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
So this time this is something else, like another movie after.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
I'm very curious. What was the most intimidating part of
taking on the role of Martin Luther King Jr.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
How long do you have?
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I mean, the estimation in which he is held by
so many was the thing that was so intimidating. And
because at the end of the day, I don't care
who you are. I don't think anyone in their right
mind feels worthy.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Of playing doctor King.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
All I knew is that I had to do as
much work as humanly possible, and my prayer was that
God and your Father would flow through me in a
way that I couldn't control. So the most difficult thing
(34:16):
about playing your Father was trusting that that would happen,
because when he was giving those speeches, anyone who has
eyes to see will know he is moving in an
anointing that is otherworldly.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
It is not just.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Intellectual or cerebral. He is speaking into time immemorial. The
speeches are timeless, the spirit from which he's talking is timeless.
I literally was at lunch with someone yesterday who was
talking about listening to a speech of your father's, and
(34:56):
he started crying. And there is a profundity to those words.
That means it's not about acting, it's about being an
instrument of service. So this wasn't like an acting exercise.
It was like a channeling thing, and you were.
Speaker 8 (35:11):
In character for like three months. If I'm not mistaken
it or maybe you can help explain that to our audience, like,
how did you channel that for such a long period
of time.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Well, there were practical reasons and there were spiritual reasons
for that. The practical reasons is that we're shooting in Atlanta,
which is where he is from. I'm giving speeches to
people who had marched with him, who had heard his sermons,
who knew him personally.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
If I walked in with this accent saying Hello, I'm David.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
I'm going to be playing Doctor King.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
I mean, like instantaneously, the confidence levels of everyone around us,
it goes way down. So I felt I had to
stay not only in the accent, but in the sort
of hemisphere of him for the shoot.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
But like, this thing I'm.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Talking about was very real for me, Like when I
watched the film. Now we're literally about to celebrate the
tenth anniversary of the film, and I've seen the film
of you know, MLK Day. The film comes on and
I watch it, and I don't recognize myself because I
I can see that something was was was being channeled
through me. That is is not something I'm walking in
(36:17):
right now. But you know, it was tricky from my wife.
She you know, we were we moved house at the time,
and I remember once her calling me about which color
curtains we should have, and.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
What did Doctor King say.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Doctor King is on the phone talking about whether they
should be gray or brown, and she was like, okay,
just stop, stop, stop.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I cannot be talking curtains with Doctor King.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
We're gonna We're gonna pick this up after the shoots,
you know. But but it was it was the price
of playing that role. And I was fortunate enough to
be in Lincoln that Daniel d Lewis played Abraham Lincoln.
And I was fortunate enough to be in the film
Asking of Scotland, where Forrest Whitzaker played idiot I mean,
and I watched those two gentlemen pay the price for
(37:07):
playing those kind of roles. And it's not just an act.
You got to stay in it. And I got my
lesson of how to do this by watching them, through prayer,
through just being in Atlanta, being in that hemisphere. It
was a truly profound experience. And I know I will
not get to do anything like that ever.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Again.
Speaker 7 (37:27):
What was the greatest piece of advice that anyone might
have given you that you felt this is the most
appropriate piece of advice that I embraced so that I
could personify what I was attempting to do.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
The thing that It wasn't a piece of advice. It
was a piece of footage I saw, and I only
saw it once. So much of the footage of your
father is him giving speeches or being interviewed by the press.
The camera is on, and so therefore to a certain extent,
(38:03):
he is on. There was one piece of footage I
only saw it once and I could never find it again.
It was him in a corridor. The camera is coming
towards him, and he stood there on his own, and
he doesn't know the camera is on yet, the camera
(38:26):
is moving towards him, and his demeanor was so different
from what I saw in speeches and press interviews. He
was entirely human. And I know that sounds like an
odd thing to say, but he just seemed like a
(38:48):
human being as opposed to an icon or a hero
or all of those things that we have transposed onto
him or that he stepped into when he was giving
speeches or talking to the press or meeting people, whether
it be the sanitary workers or whatever it was. And
I saw a man who he hit. His head was down,
(39:12):
he was being thoughtful, he was sort of swaying a
little bit. The camera was moving towards him, and then
suddenly a light came on in order for him to
be more visible, and I saw him click into something
in order to present something to the camera. And we
all do that, We all do that, And in that moment,
(39:34):
I got what I needed to be able to show
the man behind the iconography, the man who was reluctant
at times to lead the man who when I spoke
to several people, the fact that you and your siblings
and your mother's lives were at threat every single day
(39:57):
of his service, those thirteen years of his service, meant
that when he was away from you, guys, your lives
were under threat, and he, as a father, had to
carry that. So when the camera isn't on, that's what
he's thinking about. The price on the ones I love
the most is incredibly high. And so it wasn't a
(40:21):
piece of advice. It was that piece of footage because
at the end of the day, if I just was
good at the speeches or good at what people had
already seen, that's not revelatory.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Of who he was.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You have to be seeing something of the human being.
Otherwise go watch a documentary. And so that was a
real gift to me. And it was literally a few
seconds of footage I only saw once and never again.
Speaker 5 (40:45):
And I think that's the price, which we don't talk
about that often. That not only for Martin and his
siblings and his mother, but even when I even think
about to our daughter, right because our daughter is the
only grandchild of Martin Luther King Junior and Coreta Scott King,
and you know we grew up, you know, well when
(41:08):
we grew up and there wasn't grandparents Day. You know,
now when our children grow, you know's grandparents Day at
school and all day you know, all the grandparents come
out if you're you know, and the fact that her
grandfather was never there, so even she understands the price
that was paid. You know, she there is when we
(41:29):
go to the King Memorial, there's this nook and when
she was really little, she would always want to climb
and sit on this nook. And I thought it was, oh,
that's just a cute picture, but she said, she's like,
this is the closest that I ever have to sit
in my grandfather's lap. And it was at that moment,
(41:49):
you know, at eight, that I realized that even for her,
that there was that you know, that there was an
aching and that you know, the price that was paid
that even through generations, we still feel. And I'm really
curious though, because when you're playing someone like Martin Luther
King Jr. There are you know, there's you know, recordings
(42:10):
and footage and video and speeches. You didn't have that
with Nat Turner, So how did you conjure up without
any of that embody in such a significant and powerful way.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
It's a really great question. And you asked the question
a little while ago that we didn't get to about faith.
And it's not lost on me or you that we
both has happened to play men who are preachers. Nat Turner,
in my opinion, with someone who was seeking to hold
(42:46):
not just those around him accountable who were responsible for
his circumstance, but God to his word that was written.
And so I approached it from the standpoint of, you know,
if God's word is true, if we have been positioned
(43:06):
here as those who are the image of God, then
how are we being treated as chattel? You know some
of the things in the film that people don't recognize
as often as you know, Not Turner prayed for signs
and saw signs. You know on record he prayed said,
you know, if I am to stand against this, I
(43:30):
mean we were able to get the couple things happened
from that film. We were able to get the Bible
that he held in his hand, he kept in his
pocket as he fought put in the Smithsonian. We were
able to get his only remains, his skull, which was
sawed at the top with the inscription of the people
who cut his head off because they wanted to examine
(43:51):
his brain for the disease that made him rebel. It
was sitting on a professor's bookshelf at a college that
I'm not going to name, and we were able to
work with National Geographic get that back, get it to
the family, and they were able to lay his remains
to rest. So the approach, as you said, I didn't
have anything other than you know where he marked in
(44:13):
the Bible in Revelation, you know, cutting the head from
the serpent. You know, like, at some point, if God
is who he says he is, and we are who
we say we are, we need to move without fear.
And that is the thing when we talk about the
legacy of doctor King, even in the space as we're
talking about that human moment, thinking about his family, he
did it anyway. And that's the thing that I still
(44:36):
grapple with. To walk into sure death, sure pain, to
leave your grandchildren without a grandfather, to know that that
will be your demise, and to do it anyway is
something that all of us don't.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Have in us.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
I'm an actor, you know, I have five daughters. I'm
not sure I'm walking out the door down there to
the left. I know walking out there will separate me
from my family while at the same time liberating people
that I won't be here to see liberated. Call me selfish,
but these men were really courageous. So I tried to
take the approach of what the sacrifice in the name
(45:15):
of God was rather than the kind of the details
of Innitia that I did not know. And I think
that is the thing that guided me, and that was
the thing that made it very difficult, you know, on
the days in between action and cut was the stakes.
You know, I don't know if you want to speak
to that, but there's the fear that you're all constantly
beating back. If I do this wrong, then that is
(45:37):
the thing that is studied forever.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
And also just the recognition. The thing I came away
from playing your father was object indisputable recognition that I.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
I am not made of what he was made of. Yeh.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
To Nate's point, know that I have four kids like
he did, and I just in fact, I'm not going
to say I don't know. I know I am not
made of the same stuff. That would mean that for
over a decade I would knowingly, intentionally, willfully, obediently step
(46:26):
into circumstances that would jeopardize their safety every single day.
I couldn't do it, and so that's why what he
did was so incredibly heroic. And the thing that I
found so moving was that it wasn't of his choosing.
(46:47):
He didn't run towards this. He had those dark knights
of the soul of why me. I don't want to
do this anymore. I don't feel up to this. I
don't want to do this. I am tired of this.
And that's stuff that people don't know, maybe don't even
(47:08):
want to know, because we want our heroes to be perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
And he was, of course.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
A human being who would have you caught him on
the right day, he would say, No, I don't want
to much. I don't want to give that press conference.
I don't want to give that speech. I just want
to be back with my family, or I just want
to rest. I've been on the road for twenty nine
days of this month so far, and I've given speeches.
(47:34):
I've given of myself for twenty nine days straight with
no rest, and I just heard that the next place
I'm going to give a speech, there's a real chance
that I'm going to be assassinated. And I'm talking about
(47:56):
real circumstances. I'm not making that up. This is my
research that all that stuff out. So there is a
sort of you know, these men we've been afforded the
opportunity to play. I think that the reason why Nate
fought as hard as he did to get the story told,
the reason why I just I felt called to every
(48:18):
single day I had to do something to move the
needle towards that film being made, because it was unacceptable
to me that the only American not African American, the
only American to have a day named after them in
the twentieth century, had not yet had a film made
about them. Remember what I said earlier, when I first
(48:41):
read the script of Some in two thousand and seven,
Lyndon Johnson was the protagonist, Doctor King was a supporting character,
you know, And that film went through in the seven
years before we got it made. When I first read it,
it was a white male director, then another white male director,
then an African American male director, then an African American
male director. Then it was Ava Duverna who came along,
(49:04):
and finally truly recalibrated it to what it always needed
to be, which was not only the man and the movement,
but the women who also supported that want something done. Exactly,
the first black woman exactly on script. I read your
mother was featured in three phone calls, none of which
(49:26):
had Doctor King and your mother in the same room
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
By the time it.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Was in Ava DuVernay's hands, you not only had a
role that was worthy of a Carmen a Jogo who
played your mother, but roles that were worthy of Oprah Winfrey,
Nissi Nash, Tessa Thompson, Lorraine Toussaint, you know the the
And that's to do with perspective.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
And that's the power of what we do.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
We can bring a perspective that is flies in the
face of the marginalization that has created the circumstances that
caused challenge for the heroes that we are trying to platform.
And even in those seven years of me trying to
get that film made alongside the folks that Plan b
(50:14):
and Pathay, there was resistance to it being told in
the right way. The reason why it took five directors
over those seven years, all of who to a certain
degree failed to get it made is because of the
notion black doesn't travel. The white audience don't want to
be made to feel guilty. Black people don't want to
feel black pain. All of these narratives that meant that
(50:36):
the truth, yet again wouldn't be told was what we
had to fight against. Let alone get to the set
and actually play the role to the degree whereby you
feel like, oh, gosh, I actually did my job. So
you know, these resistances are not imagined what your father
was pushing up against to a way lesser degree, we
(50:59):
have those resistances in getting these movies made.
Speaker 6 (51:03):
Grab a refill in your coffee or tea because you
won't want to miss the rest of this conversation. We'll
be right back. You're listening to my Legacy podcast. Thanks
(51:32):
for sharing your time with us.
Speaker 5 (51:34):
Now, the two of you have launched a new platform,
MANSA Correct Yes, to continue to uplift the voices of
black and brown storytellers and stories. Can you just tell
us a little bit about about that.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
Yeah, I'm gonna give it to David as he You know,
I think it's a great transition from you talking about,
you know, the growth and transition of the script into
the hands of the very capable and amazing Avid de
Verney and why that's important to what we're doing with MANSA.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, I mean we faced challenges not just on those
films we made, but the work we've done generally. I mean,
we met doing Red Tails together. And George Lucas had
an obsession about telling the story of the Tuskegee Airmen.
He actually said their airplane battles were the inspiration of
what you see in Star Wars.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
And he was.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Obsessed with with, you know, World War two and planes, And.
Speaker 5 (52:32):
I just have to say, can we also say that
that was done too with they did not have the
best equipment, Oh yeah, you know, like they were not
invested in no, you know, and then they took all
of that, yeah, and then became the best of the
best and most of the war and won the war.
Came back to more discrimination, but you know, and then
(52:53):
you know, forty years later, you know, Star Wars was
patterned after the battles of the time era.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
Their dogfights literally inspired George Lucas in terms of what you.
Speaker 2 (53:06):
See in Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
He's and that's verbatim from his mouth to our ears.
But as you say, they were marginalized, and that time
in which they were sidelined and benched, they continued to
forge their prowess in terms of what they did, and
out of desperation because of how many planes were being
(53:29):
hemorrhaged by the US forces. Out of desperation, they deployed
the Tusky Geemen and the Redtails, and they had a
better record than any squadron that came before them. But
that story, George Lucas, couldn't get made for thirty years.
This is the guy who instigated, initiated, created the greatest
(53:52):
film franchise in the history of cinema. You'd think if
there was anyone who's going to be able to tell
that story, it would be him. He couldn't get a
single studio to do it. He paid fifty million dollars
of his own money to make that film because no
studio would make it. And he said very explicitly to us,
(54:14):
no one was gonna make it with a group of black,
unknown actors, which it had to be because the Tuskegee
airmen were in their twenties. There were young men, so
it can't be as amazing as they are. It couldn't
be Morgan Freeman and Denzel and you know all the
people who have had time to establish a name for themselves,
so it had to be this group of young actors,
(54:35):
and so he had to pay the money himself. So
I say that all to say that that's the context
in which Nate and I met someone like George Lucas
advocating for us, giving us a platform to tell this
kind of story. And even when the film was made,
he still couldn't get a studio to distribute it. So
he had to go to the studio that did distribute
(54:57):
it essentially use their mechanism to do.
Speaker 3 (55:02):
Him a favor to distribute the movie.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
Now, the amount of people who come up to me
about that film since it came out and to say
it's their favorite film, or it was the first time
they knew about the Tuskegee m and all of that stuff.
So cut to over a decade later, we are by
products of that man's advocacy for us, and so we
have seen that it can. The thing that we don't
(55:28):
have is pipes. We make great product we make great projects,
but what we have never had is the means to
disseminate it. The thing that was genius about your father
with selma Is. He knew that it wasn't just about
a march, it wasn't just about a speech.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
It was about the cameras.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
The cameras need to be there to capture the truth
of what was happening. And on the night where John
Lewis was being beaten over the head in Selma, a
live broadcast was disrupted and all of America saw what
looked like, as they termed it, a war zone in
(56:16):
a foreign country, and then all of a sudden they
found out that was here in America, and it changed
the narrative. What we have never had is the means
to direct the eyeballs to the things that we create,
and so MANSA is a byproduct of a technical revolution,
(56:41):
which is that we didn't have to build a brick
and mortar studio. We raised enough money to be able
to create a digital one. That means we now have
over half a million subscribers to our platform, which is
going to grow, which is going to become global, and
we now have a place for margined groups whose work
(57:02):
is traditionally undervalued, to meet the audience in a way
that isn't being funneled through the eyeballs of people who
traditionally deem that work and those people to be lesser than.
Speaker 4 (57:14):
Is often said content is king, But what we've learned
is distribution is king and kingmaker. You can make anything
you want to make, but if you have to then
go and take it to the very people who told
you you were not good enough. It is not good enough,
the story is not important enough. The chances are it
is not going to find the audience it was intended for.
So in building this platform. Mons and Mons is an
(57:37):
advertising supported streaming platform that brings the best of black
culture to a global audience. So we recognize if we're writers.
David is a writer, director, producer, actor, catering person if
he has to be whatever is necessary to get it done.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
But once that thing is made.
Speaker 4 (57:55):
He made an extraordinary film called The Waterman and was
in a situation and where and I've seen the film.
If you haven't seen it, please see the film. I
mean it was the critics loved it. It was called SPIELBERGI
and all of a sudden it was well, there are
all these reasons why it might not be able to
find an audience until you see the data. And it
was one of the most distributed watched films globally, yet
(58:18):
we had no control over getting this cup to the
people that want to drink from it. So in building manset,
it's about saying, in the same way that there is
a two B, in the same way that there's a Pluto,
in the same way that there's a Netflix, we need
to control the pipes that control the content we create.
When I say we, I mean anyone that understands the
importance of black culture because black culture drives world culture,
(58:40):
and being able to control how that gets to the
hearts and the minds of the people it needs to impact.
So if someone wanted to make a documentary about your
life or your relationship or your granddaughter, because I'm still
seeing her in that nook, that's important to my daughters
to know the importance that she saw. I want to
be close to my grandfather, though I'll never get to me.
(59:01):
If my eight year old could hear that I know her,
I know her heart, she'd be impacted by it. We
could say okay, or a podcast where we can say
we can get this podcast or the hearts and minds
of the people that need to see it without having
to beg Anyone that is opposed the idea of us
reaching the people that are for us. We don't have
to ask permission. We can take it directly to their eyeballs.
(59:21):
So that was what mons us about. It's a streaming platform.
You can download it now on iOS, Roku wherever. But
the future is about access to the people who are
looking for you, and so all of the content creators,
all the people because sometimes that the new social justice leaders,
a lot of them are content creators, you know, a
lot of them didn't come up in the church, and
(59:43):
they have different ways of interacting with millions of people
who follow them. So to give them a platform where
they can have a constant flow distributing their ideas in
ways that enhance the lives of us, our children, and
our children's children is the focus of our platform and
why we created it.
Speaker 5 (01:00:00):
And we're just getting started with David o'yelowo and Nate Parker.
Their story was too powerful and too important for this
moment to fit into a single episode. Next week we
go even deeper into the kind of friendship that's tested
in life's darkest moments when the world turns its back.
Who stands by you when everything is on the line,
(01:00:20):
Who fights for you.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
When he talks about us having prayed together, We have snotty, dribbling, screaming,
wailing prayed together over this stuff because it was hard.
Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
Trust me, you don't want to miss part two next week.
Thank you for joining us. We are so grateful to
have you as part of this journey. If you enjoyed
today's conversation, subscribe and share the podcast with friends, family,
and loved ones, and follow us on social media at
my Legacy Movement. You can also sipp ksribe to our
(01:01:01):
YouTube channel at my Legacy Movement. Produced by Legacy Plus
Studio in partnership with iHeartRadio creator and executive producer Suzanne
Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. My Legacy podcast is
available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Until next time, may you find connection and inspiration to
(01:01:24):
live your most fulfilled life.
Hosts And Creators
Craig Kielburger
Marc Kielburger
Martin Luther King III
Arndrea Waters King
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